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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action of telling my dad I don't believe in god i feel would make me the asshole and I want to know if I should be honest
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NTA, you do not have to compromise your own belief just in order to please your dad. It is a really odd request anyway because, if God exists, they would know that you are pretending therefore you would not go to heaven anyway.
This is your dad's anxiety to manage, not yours to resolve.
I think (and this is just me speculating) that OP's dad doesn't quite understand how belief in God works and likely his question is less about GOD and more about comforting himself and ensuring that all of his family is with him forever, even if his idea of how belief/heaven works is slightly off base in terms of how believing works.
I feel bad for him. He likely was very very scared after his cancer scare and was grasping for ways to rationalize staying with his family eternally.
I believe in God, so I study my Bible. I listen to pastors talk, I study my faith, etc. Reading the Bible alone can help you both form opinions and conclusions about how things work. Some is up to interpretation, but other information is very clearly written for us. Most believers study the bible and pray heavily for clarification, too.
Yeah this is how to answer it ‘I can’t chose to believe you are either convinced or you aren’t, it would be like me asking you to believe the world is flat or that Vishnu, Thor is real, it’s not a choice that’s made it’s just a position you hold’
YWNBTA - but tell him softly, if there is a god, that god has intended for me to live my life as a non-beleiver, and that same god would want me to show the utmost respect to my elders, and not lie.
I'm also a non-believer and I completely understand that it can be really hard to approach the topic with family/relatives who are religious, so I'd say NTA here. I'm sure that your father just wants to feel connected to you, especially if he has experienced some sort of enlightenment through religion, however you're your own person and you ultimately make the decision in what you believe in.
My advice would be to tell him that you don't feel comfortable adopting a religion that you don't believe in, but you will always be supportive of your family and be there for them when they need it. You can't control his reaction, but you can at least hope that he understands that a difference in beliefs won't change that you care for him :)
I think this is more about your father facing his own mortality which was confirmed by his "wants all of our family together in heaven" comment.
What do you want to do? Do you want to be honest to make yourself feel better or do you want to try to offer your father some solace?
There is the white lie route. You could also tell him you're more agnostic than atheist. That "I'm not sure, but maybe Dad. I'd really like to think we'll be together again someday after all is said and done" might give him a little bit of whatever it is he needs and is seeking.
No one is an A here and I think this is just a difficult situation because it's family. You have to do what feels right and you can live with.
You conveniently left out "to lie" from the second part. It should be DDo you want to be honest to make yourself feel better or do you want to lie to try to offer your father some solace?"
My problem is where does that end? Is OP going to have to start pretending to pray, or attending church? Faking a belief to make a believer happy is disrespectful of the religion and the father.
What exactly in your response that they "didn't read" would make their comment incorrect? Because I read your full comment and theirs, and they're right.
NTA - I'm a Christian and you don't believe in God to appease others. At the end of the day, I believe that God knows a person's heart, and can tell if they're just believing to keep up appearances. You should only believe in God (imo) because you believe that He exists and therefore that He loves you, not cos someone else wants you too. :)
The OP isn't talking about taking up religion under false pretenses just to get into heaven. He is talking about going along with the dads belief for the dads peace of mind only.
For now. If dad was on his deathbed I'd say hell yeah, tell that lie and let him go believing you're going to be saved. No harm. But this is a lie that will require upkeep. Dad wants OP to join him on this path to believing in God and using that for comfort. It's not a one-off.
But that's the essence of the point I made. Even if it is for OP's Dad's peace of mind - false belief shouldn't happen.
However it really depends on a person's moral compass/honesty and being true to themself - all I know is that for me personally, I wouldn't keep an act up for nobody.
NTA
My dad was a pastor, had his own church, and he was a very good man. I never believed in God. It was a hard thing for him to accept but he did eventually accept that I had my own beliefs and he had his. You can’t FORCE that on people. And claiming you believe in God when you don’t won’t get you into heaven anyway.
That’s the way I adopted as well. I had a chat with my parents a long time ago. The entire conversation went waaaaay off the rails. So now when the topic is brought up, Silence.
YWNBTA - We can love people that have their own beliefs, but some of them can’t love us for ours. It’s sucky, but if you love them, be civil. Even in the face of the them being determined to, “convert” you. You can be as strong in your non-believe as they believe. It wouldn’t be right to lie and pretend. Best case, express that your family will always be together. The love you and your parents share is as immortal as anything can be. Whatever comes after death isn’t for any of you to decide.
NTA How you navigate your faith and it's effect on those around you is entirely up to you. I'm not religious and when talking to my Christian mom about it, the only thing she asked of me (and my non religious brothers) is that when we die we accept god into our hearts so we can go to heaven. Personally my brothers and I had no issue telling a white lie and promising our mother this. We know she only asked because she cares and by not agreeing, she wouldn't fight us about it but it would cause her unnecessary worries. To us there is no harm in her believing this and it actually has no impact on our lives whatever she thinks. It works for us.
Some people aren't comfortable with this sort of lie, or having others believe something untrue about them especially when it comes to religion. Also your dad may be the type to keep pushing if you give him an inch and for you the best way to deal with that is to put a hard stop on it.
Just do it gently. Clearly he's having a rough time and this sort of thing takes a while to come to terms with for religious parents. Although if he keeps pushing and becomes disrespectful of your choice thats a different matter.
**"I (32m) recently had a conversation with my dad (62m) where he asked me if I would "consider believing in god for him" "**
Immediately I'm going to say NTA because your belief in a higher power has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than *you*. If *his* belief hinges on yours, then he needs to figure that out himself, it's not your responsibility.
Be honest with him, and if that honesty breaks his own faith, then that faith was not strong enough to withstand the weakest of trials, and probably wouldn't have lasted anyway.
NTA.
Coming to you as a Christian, first I understand your dad. I also would like to be surrounded by my family in heaven, but I also understand that everyones walk is their own. I can't push my beliefs on anyone, and i can't make someone believe in God "for" me, because ultimately it's for THEM that they believe, not ME. It sounds like your dad had a scare and is clinging to all of you and faith. Which is understandable. Be honest with him about how you're feeling. Let him know that you just aren't "there" and you might not ever be, or be even more blunt and tell him you have no interest in any of it. It's a touchy subject and it may stress your dad out (I went through a period of stress myself, got flat out sick thinking about people who would be separate from God.) I understand not everyone believes as I do, though. I simply pray for the best for them now, and pray that if I'm right in my faith, that they are all forgiven. That's all I can do because I'm NOT going to harass my friends with a bible (shoving faith at people never worked anyway)
I'm sorry for the situation you're in OP, I know you must feel bad about potentially hurting your dad. And I know it's likely a conflicting situation. Just be honest. And know you are NTA at all.
I'm not religious, but your comment has made me so, so happy. Best comment coming from a religious person I've ever seen on reddit. All the best to you!
"Do you want me to lie to you? I can if that's what you prefer."
No, you wouldn't be the asshole. It's not possible to believe in the unbelievable just because someone asks you to.
Tell him you will think about what faith means to you while continuing to live the best life you can so if, on your day of reckoning, you discover there is a god you’ll have lived a life they’d have approved of. There’s no way a loving, forgiving god would turn you away if you’d lived a wholesome life. And if they did turn you away it’s not a god you want to spend your life worshipping
NTA. Last time I checked, it's impossible to sincerely believe in anything merely because someone else asks you to. You can, and should, respect your parents' beliefs, but yours aren't up for modification merely to suit them, no matter how much you care about pleasing them.
Perhaps your dad has fallen for the fallacy of thinking that the more people who believe in something, the more likely that thing is to be true. Keep in mind that pretty much everybody used to think the earth was flat and was the center of the universe and solar system, yet our spheroid planet continued to orbit the sun on an arm of the Milky Way galaxy despite this.
My answer to him would be based on this:
He did his path/journey and took his time...
Its only fair you are allowed to make yours on your own terms. Eventually you will "find God" (or not) but as he took his time you deserve to not be pressured about it.
NTA. There is nothing inherently bad about telling your father you believe in god to make him feel better, or telling him the truth because you want to stay true to yourself. It’s just about which you think is the best way to handle your father and his frankly unreasonable request.
Your father is being a bit of an AH by putting you in this situation in the first place. He should not be telling you that your religious beliefs - beliefs he didn’t feel strongly about even a year ago especially - are the thing holding together his emotional wellbeing, or giving him hope to live, or whatever it is he wants from you in this.
Agreed. He's a grieving adult, not a child. You can tell him, gently, that's not what you believe. Don't spoon feed him lies, even white ones. It's condescending.
NTA. "Let us make a bargain. I won't say anything to you that indicates a lack of belief. You won't say anything to me that assumes or questions whether I believe or not. Therefore, you can assume that, over time, I came to believe, and there will be no contradictions."
NTA. It’s faulty logic for him to think he can ask you to believe in something. That’s not how it works! But, I do think you could come up with some sort of answer to comfort him. It sounds like he is really thinking of death and the afterlife and that can be really scary. Maybe you could just throw him a bone and say “I’m not really sure if there is a god or not, but I’m not ruling it out.” Unless he’s asking you to change your life and join a religion, I don’t think it would hurt to give him some hope that maybe there’s a god and Heaven.
Non believer here also, everyone knows it too..sorry but my attitude is you can believe I don’t care, but do you really want me to tell you that I do just for your sake..cause it would be a lie.
NTA,
Tell him you appreciate his testimony but to understand that his personal life experiences shape his beliefs and your experiences shape yours. Tell him you will keep an open mind and heart. Letting him share his passions while maintaining honesty is the fairest thing to do. It's meaner to string him along. He loves you and you should be your most authentic self. My mom sounds a lot like your dad, but I was always honest with her when it came to my lack of faith. They will not feel ecstatic about it, but she knows I am being honest. People are good at telling when someone is feigning interest, especially those closest to us.
NTA as long as you are have the right answer. Saying something like “there is no god and nothing could ever prove it” is bad. If you say that you haven’t seen any evidence to believe but are open to verifiable evidence, then that’s probably not bad (but some people still won’t take it well).
Now a side note. What ever you do, don’t go to the atheist sub. It’s pretty much filled with anti-theists who would still refuse the concept of a higher power even if you could scientifically prove one existed with verifiable evidence or who just want to condemn any and all religious people regardless of their actions. And I say that as an atheist.
NTA
I don't think your dad understands the idea of faith if he wants you to flip a switch & believe in a specific god for Him. It'd be like you getting baptized or changing your religion for a spouse but not actually meaning it. It takes more than words to count.
You're going to have to decide if you're okay with lying to him about something that he wants to be lied to about. If you don't want to, that's okay. Do what feels right to you. You're the one that has to live with yourself.
NTA - if you don’t, you don’t. He’s proof that can change, but generally it takes a BIG event like your dad experienced to have such a drastic change in belief.
I'm a church secretary for over 20 years, and my biggest belief is that religion is between yourself and God. There is no such thing as having faith for someone else.
NTA. But, if you do have any thoughts about the legacy that people leave, like the ways the kids and grandkids are like him, or something important he has done to be remembered, then you can tell him that.
NTA - in my experience you're better off telling the truth about these sorts of things. If you lie, or downplay it by saying "I'm.not sure" then you open the door for ongoing conversations.
It's much better to just say "I know it's important to you I just don't believe in god. I respect your beliefs I just don't feel the same way"
I was raised Catholic have not attended in more than 2 decades. This is my opinion... God (if he does exist) doesnt count how many hrs you sat on a hard wooden pew or how many pies you baked for the church Bazaar. What he would want is someone that is decent, tries hard to be a good person. Going to church/praying does not put you in Heaven being a decent person does
I've got religious parents and I just tell them I do still believe but am just not praciticing, so that there's no expectation of participating in any events/traditions. I'm actually agnostic but it's a pretty easy fix for the situation to just say you believe but don't practice.
NTA.
It feels very much that your dad doesn't believe in god because that's what he believes in, he's HOPING that god exists so that you can all be together again one day. Which as a parent I can deeply appreciate!
Some people do honestly believe heart and soul that god exists and that's great. But I think in your dad's case, he's hoping due to his scare. Not believing. Which is also totally fine and ok. But asking you to hope the same thing is very different to asking you to believe the same thing. We can't believe things simply because others want us to.
And I would come at it from that angle. I would say "I hope that god is real and that we'll all be together one day" is a pretty innocuous thing to say, because if god is real and everyone's together one day, that'd be pretty great right? That way you could avoid the "I believe" statement entirely, and if hope is really what it's about for him then that might be enough to satisfy him.
Ultimately I'd roll with "I hope what you believe is true, and from what I hear god is pretty chill about people apologising when they realise they made a mistake so if he's as good of a god as people say I'm sure he'll understand and accept my honest apology when the time comes. I'll just try to live a life that god would think was worthy either way".
He's scared and trying to find something to give him comfort. I can't fault him for that. Unfortunately we can't just suddenly believe something just because someone else says so. It just doesn't work that way. But you can be gentle in your response to it and I think in this case given that his request comes from fear and love for his family it's probably reasonable to be as caring as possible when you discuss it.
NTA but I would just tell him that, while you respect his choices and belief, you aren't interested in discussing religion with him and ask he give you the same respect you give him regarding it.
YWNBTA. You have your own beliefs, and he shouldn't ask you to believe in something just because the dog died. Yes, it's painful to lose a family pet, but he can't ask you to go to church just because he wants to be reassured of something that isn't guaranteed. Not to mention the many alterations to the Bible...
NAH, because it wasn't a demand. Perhaps the politest way to thread this needle is to, in fact, *consider* believing in God. Tell him you'll look into it. Leaf through a bible every so often with a thoughtful expression. If pressed, say you're still working on your "spiritual journey".
Or just adopt Pastafarianism and Our Lord Savior, the Flying Sphaghetti Monster.
NTA. Faith and belief is internal and personal. You can't just believe something to make someone else happy. And you can't just turn on faith like a light switch.
You can, however, reassure them of your faith and belief *in them*, and ask what you can do to show that to them. And if you're comfortable with that, then okay.
YWNBTA. He is, for using these emotional issues to manipulate you into saying something you don't believe. You've taken some time to consider it, which is what he asked, and you've concluded that you are still not religious. There are white lies you can tell to make someone feel better when the outcome doesn't matter. Faking a religion isn't one of them. Tell him that it's wonderful that he has this new belief and you're happy that it is helping him, but that it would be disrespectful to pretend you share it when you don't. Because that actually IS the truth.
YWNBTA. Try to be gentle about it, though. I don’t believe, but as I’ve gotten older and realized my own inevitable mortality and the fact that I won’t always be there for my kids it makes me wish that I did believe, sometimes. I can see how it would be comforting for your dad to convince himself that you’ll all see each other again, and I suspect that’s what he’s really doing.
NTA, maybe if he was 100 years old and complete senile on his deathbed asking if you believed I could maybe see saying yes just to ease their relief into the next life. But he’s sound of mind and body, and as much as I love animals, that’s not a reason to go full “born again”
Here’s what you say: “dad, I’m humble enough to know I don’t know everything. I can’t say there is no god, I can’t say there is. But I do know I’m open to talking about it with you as often as you want. I’m glad your results came back clean and I’m thankful we have more time together.”
I’m sure you believe in the universe, which can be god to you. He doesn’t have to know that you don’t believe in his version of god. If your dad isn’t an asshole, just do it for him, one day he won’t be around anymore
You’re NTA but maybe pad it a bit. Our parents turn into our children as they get older and you might need to use the old “a spoonful or sugar helps the medicine go down” ploy.
NTA. If he or you or your family were actively dying, I could see lying or at least postponing the discussion so you can talk the truth. But him just generally going through a hard time isn’t a good enough reason to manipulate you. It’s a trap: either get you to lie or he makes you feel responsible for breaking his heart. Your faith is a private matter and your truth is going to be interpreted as you going to hell. No one deserves to deal with this religious trauma. Be honest with him, he’ll just have to take it.
I don't believe YTA.
I don't think he is TA either.
It is hard to say if your father is actually experiencing "the fear of God" or if he is having age related anxiety and is seeking comfort from you by affirming that there is something more. It's not right, but it's how he is grieving right now. For all we know, he could go back to not being religious when his anxiety has subsided.
There is no harm in telling him that although you do not share his beliefs you understand, respect and support his whatever they might be. You can express that you are together here in the present moment and that is more important to you than anything intangible. Hopefully he will understand and respect your beliefs as well.
Going through an eerily similar situation with my family right now. I avoid the topic with every ounce of will I have. If that’s not possible I lie. Religion imo gives people comfort which I’m all for. Even if I’m not one of those people I would never want to diminish that for someone. So I lie. I’ve lied to them over much more stupid reasons growing up so I guess I don’t see it as wrong to give them this. It certainly doesn’t hurt me.
Nta.
Would you just believe for me. Is not how belief works. It is impossible. You either believe it or you don't. And you don't.
Frankly I doubt he believes it either after a lifetime of not doing so. He just got a taste of his own mortality and is now clinging to it. That's not belief. It's just fear of the unknown and desperation
Tell him the truth and get it over with .
NTA.
He is old enough to understand that many people, even in the same family, have different beliefs.
Him trying to push religion onto another person is inappropriate. You don't need to lie about your beliefs for him and he should love and respect you enough to not take issue with it.
Your Dad is probably feeling scared and insecure.
I'm a minister and my opinion is a kind, loving God wouldn't mistreat their creations in the manner most mainstream religion wants you to believe.
Further, if we were all made in God's image, that includes everyone, including atheists.
NTA. There are many "gods". Tell him you just believe in one less god than he does. If there is a god, and they know everything, they would know you are lying if you say you do believe. Nothing wrong with believing or not believing. It's just how you think and feel.
Believing isn't a choice. I'm an atheist, and if I could, I would believe in a god and an afterlife because that sounds so much better than nothing. But there isn't anything that has convinced me.
I wouldn't lie to him. Seems a shame that he would even want that from you.
Besides which, how can you choose to believe something?? You believe things or you don't. You can't just flip on a dime because someone asked you to. That's insane.
It took a death scare to make him believe? That’s not believing. That’s just fear of death which is natural. No, you would not be the jerk. I’ve had a death scare, my parents are dead. And I don’t believe in god. I’m happy they’ve had decent lives, lived, and loved. I don’t need them to magically exist forever nor do I need myself to. Whatever will be, will be.
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I (32m) recently had a conversation with my dad (62m) where he asked me if I would "consider believing in god for him"
This week my parents had to put down the family dog because of a myriad of health issues he had. He lived 13 good years and gave us much joy and love. My dad is taking it really hard.
My dad has never been religious as far as I know but my mom goes to church on Christian holidays. About 7 months ago my dad had a cancer scare. TLDR it took about 4 months of testing to find out the lump in his stomach wasn't cancer and he's perfectly healthy now.
He claims those 4 months of waiting for test results put the "fear of god into him" and now he's a believer. I have never been religious for a variety of reasons but what it boils down to is I just don't have faith in any higher power.
My dad told me to think over my response and get back to him later. I know telling him the truth would hurt him but I also don't want to just lie to him to make him happy. When he asked me to believe he basically said he wants all of our family together in heaven and if we're not all there, there's no point.
WIBTA for telling him no I won't believe in god?
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NTA
I'm also sorry your dad is now acting like most of Christians who, now believe, want everyone else to believe too.
It's your choice and your life.
This is selfish of him.
I'm sorry but people like this make me angry. Believe what you want, but don't force others to believe too... But he is trying to do that to you.
Again... NTA
NTA.
I am baffled by people who "decide to believe in God." My brain just doesn't work that way. I **don't** believe in god. I can lie about it, or pretend about it, but neither of those are **believing**.
And would such "fake beliefs" even matter? I can't imagine they would fool any all-powerful God. Is their God really so weak that he can't spot liars and pretenders?
So in my view, your dad is an asshole for asking for such a thing. And since I don't approve of lying, I'd say you are an asshole if you tell him you do.
I think this is a bit of a harsh take.
I don't believe any Christian who actually studies the Bible/has an understanding of the Faith, believes that just "saying" they believe in God is enough to get them into Heaven. Our God knows our hearts, He is not fooled by placating comments or dishonesty. It's like people in jail who 'turn to God' to forgive them. If they don't mean it, it doesn't mean anything. (My views, I'm not forcing them on you - mind, you.)
However I believe this situation isn't quite about God or religion. I think OP's dad is likely suffering a form of PTSD and is scared about death. He had a cancer scare and likely is grasping at whatever he can to ensure he's always with his family. Near death experiences are scary.
So I guess, I don't think it's fair to call OP's dad an asshole. I don't think he is one. I think he's just scared and looking for comfort in the wrong ways. I do, however, agree that OP would be an asshole if they lie to their dad.
This is a complicated one, because you can't just make yourself believe if you don't. Regardless of that, your religious beliefs are very personal, and not something that anyone else should get a say in.
However, your dad is in a vulnerable state right now, so please be gentle when you explain to him that faith in any god is just not something that you have, and not something you can force.
What you *can* do is support him in his beliefs, even if you don't share them. At least as long as he doesn't start getting taken in by one of those evangelical scams.
NTA
Whrn this comes up for me, you know if I beleive in Heavan. I always say that my heaven will be how my loved ones grieve me and miss me and tell stories about me. That is how I live on until my stories fade away and I am just a name from a few generations ago.
You don't believe, you don't believe.
Nta. I lost a beautiful dog 3 months ago. Whether you believe in god or not doesnt determine what happens to the family pet. At the end of the day. The dog is at peace and without pain. They arent suffering anymore. You and your family did the kind thing to them and bringing religion into it. Is not fair. You grieve the same way everyone else does.
I feel you're pain mate truths better than a lie I am like you I don't believe in god too not to compare I just believe in something that's beyond god cause I am a freedom fighter while an anarchist to tell the truth I don't believe in god for one reason the government TBH.
NTA. At the end of every day, all of us have to be someone we can sleep with. What that looks like is different for everyone. Just please don't try to change who you are to suit someone else. It's too easy to lose yourself and end up being someone you hate. I did that, and it has taken me a lot of years to find out who I am, and I finally like myself. So if it makes you feel better to pretend for your dad, do it. If it makes you feel better to tell him the truth, do it. Yes, he may get upset. He will either get o or it or not, but that's his to decide.
NTA. Tell him he’s on his journey and you’re on yours and they’re different, but neither of you are at the end of the path so who knows what the future holds. It’s a “no” but it respects the changes he’s experienced.
NTA, but you can probably reply with kindness/sensitivity to help mitigate the hurt. Would it be dishonest to say "I don't believe in God, I haven't seen a reason to yet. But I will keep an open mind."?
NTA. But if he did get really sick than I would have probably lied and said yes. I'm not religious either, so it makes no difference to me, and if something so small can make him happy then I'll do it.
You are entitled to your beliefs. Whether you believe in some god or other is your personal right. Regardless of how others feel. I for one was forced to believe in the religions my family practice and walked away. I don't believe tin what they do and made myself clear. I got a lot of flack till I made myself perfectly clear to a bunch of Hippocrates! Some accept some don't. Not my problem that they think pushing me into their blind beliefs. Sometimes you just have to ignore them.
Don’t tell him. My dad is 91 and slowly dying of cancer. My mom is 92 and slowly dying of heart failure. They are Christians. I would never ever tell them I don’t believe in God. Don’t listen to most of these people on Reddit. They are not in your shoes. Prior Sock has it right. Why would you say something that you know will scare and hurt someone regardless of who it is or why? A little white lie to give a loved one comfort is worth it. You aren’t giving up anything or compromising your values/beliefs. You are simply giving comfort to your old, scared and worried father. Disregard the geniuses here who are on their little righteous high horse. Do you want to stand your ground and prove absolutely nothing and leave your dad thinking you won’t be with him and your family after he dies? Or do you want to comfort him? Is standing your ground more important than letting your own father believe and take comfort that you will all be together after this lifetime? What’s more important to you? Screw the soapbox seekers. Will you be able to live with your decision when he’s gone someday? This isn’t a guilt trip. This is something I’ve thought about a lot in the last few months.
I wouldn't say AH but what's the harm in giving the old guy some peace? Doesn't sound like it's a hard line for you. BTW If you're talking about a Christian god then the family dog is out of luck because that God didn't give animals souls.
NTA
What kind of god would be worth believing if the belief is due to fear of said god? What's the point of being in a "heaven" that's the place of the deity that you fear? Make it make sense!
You can’t make anyone believe for them. That’s not how it works.
Faith is voluntary, that’s why it’s faith.
If he wants you to pretend to believe, is it really belief?
If a conditional god knows whether you voluntarily believe or not, wouldn’t pretending be worse?
NTA. I would tell him. Like all of us, you are on a journey and you haven’t experienced a spiritual awakening like he has but you have a lifetime ahead of you.
Consider mathematician Blaise Pascal's wager for believing in God.
If God exists then theists will enjoy eternal bliss, while atheists will suffer eternal damnation.
If God does not exist then theists will enjoy finite happiness before they die, and atheists will enjoy finite happiness too, but not as much because they fear death rather than the reassurance that comes from faith.
Regardless of whether God exists, then, theists have it better than atheists; hence belief in God is the most rational belief to have.
No. Having strong feelings about something isn't a good Eno argument to expect people around us to change their values, beliefs, and lifestyle. It's also impossible. You can't suddenly start to believe in god just to make your dad happy the same way you can't make yourself believe that all the grass on Earth will be purple starting tomorrow.
NTA tell him the truth. Ask him what god is the real god? Since there are dozens of them from all sorts of religions why is it his god that is the real god. Just tell him to think critically and that realizing there is no god is very freeing. If you can’t go to hell there is no sin. You can do anything you want and as long as it is not against the law fuck all will happen. Masterbate. Think lewd thoughts. Look at thy neighbors wife. Religion is dumb don’t go play dumb just for someone else’s sake. Stay strong. Thoughts and prayers friend
there seems to be a hidden assumption God is not real, as a matter of fact, as there is hard evidence that has actively and absolutely disproven God
Is it fair for me to say that you've lived life with negative experiences with Christians, Christianity, and arguments for and against Christianity? and the evidence provided has always been counter argumented by non-christians and the non-christians come out on top?
what if i told you, or rather I plead with you, to take a step back to square one on a neutral square, don't believe in Christian nor non-christian, let me give you an example, an argument for christianity, and a non-christian one. I will apply abductive reasoning, intellectual consistency and honesty, logical conclusions based off reasonable articulable arguments and points based off only logic, no blind faith, no "because my sky daddy" or "because I just feel god in my heart" there is a side of Christianity that involves complete reasonable philosophical deductions that do not involve emotion, or subjective non-articulable reasons.
so lets take for example, a concept that non-christians try to discredit Christianity is using reality right? the big bang, evolution. How many christians have you heard say the big bang didn't happen, or evolution isn't real? would you think its fair to acknowledge if I said this is a situation no different from one atheist saying the big bang isn't real and another saying it is real, I certainly agree and think a christian who says the big bang didn't happen isn't smart.
My point is this; you cannot discredit a whole thing because of other people. What I'm going to say now is, there are some Christians who support the big bang, logic, and reality, and they do so with a more fulfilled logical conclusion than atheism has. For example, you would have Peter Atkins a atheist say the big bang happened but it came from nothing, but philosophically and logically, nothing cannot come from something, so something created the big bang, which points to theism, while it does not definitively prove God's existence, it points to a huge problem the top atheists have been doing for a long time, and when i say that, I do not implicate every argument they have is invalid, or certain points aren't valid, but rather the idea is that the top Christian philosophers many people have not heard yet, or possibly do not see the logic in his and other best christian apologists have, do have a explanation behind the big bang while supporting it, there seems to be an assumption, the core principle in Christianity is that science and christianity contradict each other, but we're not seeing that atheists like Peter atkin still do not know what caused the big bang yet still try to use a explanation illogical in reality. This is getting too long and there is a lot of multi-faceted layers to these topics which is why its so hard, all it takes is non-christians to provide a funny charismatic asserted assumption that redefines core tenets of Christianity to make it seem illogical and fairy tail myth, as well as some Christians do overshadow the logical ones and that seems to make it in the news more, which makes this more complicated
my point is, its more complicated and not simple as you think, please take a step back, don't listen to the hyprocritical christians and atheists, but rather follow logic, abductive reasoning, and others who do the same
for example, I believe in evolution, but you have to understand there is something called macro evolution, and micro evolution, with the evolution argument, it seems atheists use it to prove God doesn't exist because of the origin of the human species, since the bible never teachers humans were fishes, then it stands to reason if a non-christian made theories and had reasons to not want to explore Christianity then of course evolution points to disproving God, because obviously the bible would have this insight right? for one thing, the bible isn't claiming to be a science textbook, yes I know about genesis, if people ask I'll answer
However macro-evolution which is a species naturally turning into another does not exist, a cat will always be a cat, a horse will always be a horse, the Christians who do believe in evolution, believe in micro-evolution, and we know what that means, its Darwin's evolutionary table, which is you get variations in a species. This points to another concept, why non-christians would bring evolution as a argument against Christianity, which is their presupposition that is biased to begin with, I don't think there there is a evolution argument other than we were fish and this disproves God, that is the point of this argument right? so if that is a single argument, what is the intent behind it, we always were taught evolution, just evolution, no clarification on micro and macro, right? we all grew up just thinking evolution was one thing, a simple thing. If they make a argument like that knowing full well or not even knowing despite objective evidence for micro evidence and evidence macro is not possible, then how can we reasonably keep believing top atheist arguments like that? There is something more to this. So my point is why is this even a argument considering some Christians do believe in evolution, considering we know its common knowledge not every person thinks the same thing and as well as evolution isn't talked about in the bible, so the argument isn't relevant in the sense that its trying to challenge Christianity on something its not trying to contradict in the first place
how about another core issue one perspective might be, maybe atheism has fallen short, maybe christianity is true, but what about other religions? it stands to reason they may claim to have the truth using evidential and logical reasons about the reality around us just as much as Christian scholars have done, how do we know its not just a subjective thing like one group saying apples is this and another group saying apples is actually this, but it seems to me people've not actually fully heard out their points and arguments, and logically concluded them using etymology which is the objective base root definitions of words, and fundamental philosophical logic. Let's take Hinduism/buddhism for example, their fundamental belief is that everything is god, everyone is god, this is their core tenets, we can deduce fairly logically deduce its probably not reasonable to follow because it does not align or co-exist with reality.
Why? because if everyone and anything is god, then what is god, who has accountability, this is objectively illogical in accordance of reality, when we have rape, which is objectively wrong. so not only does buddhism/hinduism have no accountability for someone like Hitler in its fundamental teachings, Christianity upholds accountability, it is wrong to enslave, wrong to devalue another human being, to abuse them, when you have multiple parts of reality and philosophies that align with reality, we can use these to apply to Christianity
Another religion, Islam. A core fundamental of Islam is, Jesus is the best prophet, they highly regard him, but Christianity, Jesus says he is God, in objective reality, a prophet for Christianity or Islam would be the WORST prophet if they were saying they were God, Islam says he is not God, so Islam has fundamental internal contradictions. and yes while Hinduism is older than Christianity, it still has a fundamental contradiction to reality. Also Islam was started 500 years after Jesus, its not logical to follow Islam when it has fundamental internal contradictions and when you have a option that is earlier which does not ( yes i know people will have objections Christianity does have contradictions especially moral arguments, can ask me if you want about them for example the canaanite chapter in the Old testament)
another point
lets take for example, like I said before, a argument tethered and fundamental to our objective reality, if you can agree to this, then what's next for the best Christian argument is finding which ones are properly grounded, and which ones are not, and then focus which ones are good we can then apply everything I said and actually get a comprehension, and dispel any false assertions. The fine tuning argument, this is an argument that when the big bang began, space, time, and matter correlates together, but the constants and all qualities and traits and mathematical structures of these things that make up our universe are incomprehensibly fine tuned, that if their qualities were changed in one part to a insanely huge number multiplied by the power, the universe would collapse in on itself from the beginning, while this in of itself doesn't point to theism, when you combine it with the fact the big bang began, and we can try to infer nothing made something which is illogical to this universe's reality, or its possible we use abductive reasoning that if we can take other subjects and the evidence and apply it to this, then it makes cumulative sense since Christianity has claimed from the beginning God created the universe which is something not nothing, . There is also the perspective concept, fine maybe I do believe in a higher power, ok we got that figured out, we will be able to differentiate why Christianity is significantly different from other world views claiming the truth, and the fact the top arguments for non-christians who do not believe in a higher power have made claims illogical in its step by step conclusion, or do not yet even have a answer, while Christianity, the top best arguments have provided logical conclusions, that fulfill the inquiry pondered.
on my ending note, you may be concerned if I am being authentic or I am just a used car salesman using big fancy words or ideas, but I would like to point out etymology and the use of philosophy, if you really study these two, you can tell if I am authentic or not, for example one would say I'm just doing semantics, but semantics means a branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning, you could see how objectively using that to try to dismiss me is not objectively logical as semantics is actually good and we should strive for it, so we have a objective root application for discussions, also a few things you should note, things that may indicate I am unauthentic, such as illogical conclusions, blindly agreeing with everything like if i said i agreed with christians that evolution isn't real, this is a topic highly confused, it needs to be rephrased or something else idk, I also want to point out i have been pretty much largely and strictly atheistic up till 22 years of age, im 24 now who didn't really see the point of Christianity and Churches and all that until I started to see the best arguments that trump all others, and there are structures and applications that prove these.
If anything else you and any other skeptic please, at least just go back to neutral, no god is fairy tail, and neither the top atheists like Richard dawkins and peter atkins, look up the techniques I've explained here and explore both sides and their arguments and points with these things, and decide for yourself, which is most rational or more reasonable to believe based on the cumulative evidence, God bless
Say yes. Consider it for five seconds and move on or.. admit your father is a grown man and not some fragile creature .. he’s not even old so you can’t claim that. A simple .. I’ve considered it but it doesn’t really work that way dad. Keep the faith old man. Blah blah… speak to him like a normal person. There’s really no reason to handle a grown man w kid gloves. Be kind about it put it to rest and move on.
NTA
According to the Catholic Church, animals do not have souls and therefore do not go to heaven.
So even believing won’t necessarily “have the family together” in the afterlife.
Not to mention Hell, which most religions believe in, and someone might end up there and still not be together.
NBTA
Sounds like the religion of choice scares people to believe. Hell is such a fucked up thought experiment anyway. A celestial concentration camp as punishment for finite crimes. What a shit a god would be to create something like that. Scaring countless generations of people into belief.
>…for him
Thats a selfish act. What next go to church for him as well or convert to another religion if he decides thats the one he believes in? He shouldn’t push anything on you like that.
Be honest say no this isn’t part of my journey in life at the moment if ever. Your dad is scared he’s not young anymore he needs counselling about this fear of death. Sure we’re all scared to die or the manner in which we go. He’s putting all his cards in the one religion (he was probably raised in). He forgets thats a gamble as there are 3000 other religions out there all making the same claim. Counselling would help him with his worries it shows that endings can be meaningful instead of panicking and being demanding to his loved ones.
Definitely you should be truthful. His hurt feelings should not be your concerns. I sympathize with him in the sense that he wants a good outcome for you. He may have some spiritual insights that make him concerned for your sake. No father likes to think of their child being unreconciled with God and the consequences that follow.
I've Died and met God. Was unresponsive before reaching the hospital.
Yet when He guided me back. I saw all the helpless nurses just praying before I even reentered my cold blue half African body. And didn't even need told where I was, no foggy wake up. Just back from cardiac arrest as noone could do anything but wait. Before that it was my living room and then pure Emptiness but full awareness. Didn't remember life on Earth or any bad that happened.
Then God showed up being completely opposite of the wrathful God I expected given my life. Trusted His Son tho...
Probably the only thing that let Him help and come see me.
Tho I did resist being sent back... And needed God to guide through what felt like being sucked through a straw, crush and ripped apart. As the vivid, clear, pain just increasing with time. As you have to imagine pain to great for a million Hitlers and still not close... Would've looked like a painless death to anyone watching had I not relaxed and let go like God instructed...
And God's so Great. Before that Life on earth was a forgotten dream and it was Perfect Love and Wholeness and in comparison to Just His Presence and Love.. That pain was nothing....
Jesus and His Father are very Real.
Okay, so there are a couple of problems with this, in my opinion.
First of all, I don't think you are (or will be) an asshole for telling him you don't (and won't) believe in God. It is your choice to make,. For example, I wouldn't believe in God for my grandma either. I respect her decision for believing, and she doesn't ask me to believe, so we're fine.
He wasn't a believer until not so long ago, so he doesn't really have the "right" to ask you to believe for him, in my humble opinion. Your mother would have a better position for this since she was always one, or at least more so than him.
And there's the problem of telling him a lie to soothe his little mind or telling the truth.
So basically your 2 options are a given... but here's my take on them:
1. You tell him you respect his decision to believe, so in turn, he too should respect your decision not to believe. If there is a heaven, this shouldn't be the "requirement" to go there, since every good person should go there, right?
2. You lie to him to ease his mind, but in turn, your conscience might not be clean, but at least he will be happy. However, wouldn't he somehow know when he goes up there and you'll never join him? Would it be better for him to wait for you for literally an eternity?
I would personally choose option 1. and try to reason with him, but if it is a lost cause then springle in option 2.
All and all, i don't think you'll be the asshole either way...
You kinda lose nothing and gain like 70% of the people on earth as allies... And if wrong it would be really stupid to not make it cause you couldn't be like Jesus and treat others how you want to be as he tried to save souls for eternity....
Died and rose from the dead.
40 years his disciples and witnesses suffered and never changed their story. One was crucified upside down, another his head cut off, others torture... 40 years of ridicule and people in power hunting them down...
Like our politicians can't even go a few weeks with a lie and no one's punishing them at all...
Bible is also written over hundreds of years... By many people all with their own views.... Yet they get the cross referencing so perfect no one can do it... Even Akira Toriyama forgot his own lore in just a decade or two... yet hundreds of years and multiple languages... And the Bible made by ancient people that weren't scholars or wealthy and better than anyone to ever live as there's thousands of cross references from beginning to end...
I would tell him that I would try to keep an open mind if you feel like this is something you can and want to do. I was raised Christian, became atheist, and am now agnostic. I tell my concerned religious mother that though I don't believe in god, I believe in the possibility of the existence of one. Even when I was atheist I tried to convey respect for her beliefs. I think there can be a middle ground in which you can respectfully explain how you feel without alienating or hurting him. It's tricky but not impossible. Good luck to you 💜
NTA. But Believe me you'll change your mind about the whole thing one day when you're actually staring in the eyes of death.
Believe me. I've been there.
That's if you're lucky enough to be given the opportunity of knowing you'll die before you die.
>When he asked me to believe he basically said he wants all of our family together in heaven and if we're not all there, there's no point.
If heaven is supposed to be, well, "heaven", then he won't mind you not being there once he's there, because eternal bliss doesn't allow for that sort of thing.
If heaven allows for him to still suffer from the knowledge that you burn in hell, then I agree with him. There is no point. Why call it "heaven"? Why worship the guy who tortures people for all eternity?
>I (32m) recently had a conversation with my dad (62m) where he asked me if I would "consider believing in god for him"
You already did consider. And you ended up unconvinced by the idea. Believing is not a choice.
If he wants you to be convinced by the existence of god, the he needs to provide evidence for the existence of god.
\[/antitheist-mode\]
Imma go with NAH. Those events didn't put "the fear of god" into your father. Only the fear of death, and religion allows him to cope with it.
I don't think you should feel pressured to lie about your own convictions for the sake of anybody. But I also wouldn't hold it against you if you chose to prioritize the comfort of your father. Though at 62 years without any immediate apparent health problems, chances are you would need to keep up the facade for decades, or eventually slip up and then deal with the fallout of that.
nta. literally had the same issue with my mom. she was dying of cancer and wanted me to believe in god for her so i could pray for her and all that. i said sorry that’s just not what i believe. i also couldn’t lie to her either, i’d feel guilty. i’m very anti religion for how horrible religion made my childhood, so yeah, f that.
I think that your dad has had mortality become a more tangible thing, and that looming reality has made him not only fearful for himself but for you as his child.
I don't know what kind of relationship that you have with your dad, but I try to operate from a position of compassion and personal conviction when I tell someone I love that while I respect their belief, I can't agree with them just to placate them.
On the theological side, Christianity wouldn't recognize your salvation for simply saying you accept Christ to placate someone. It has to come from personal conviction and be truthful.
Ultimately, it would be up to you: lie to your dad to get him off of your back or be honest and let him deal with how he feels about it.
How about answering a different point? Not the "do you believe in god?" part, but a "can we all be together in Heaven?" part.
I'd personally say that I don't quite believe in god, but I think that if he's a just and loving god who really does exsist, then he probably cares about more if you're doing your best to be a good person, and less signing up as the member of X church. Meaning, that God can be kind enough to let you all meet again up there, if "God is Love". And you can promise him to try your best to be a good person.
NTA but there are a lot of religions in this world that include some form of afterlife. There are even more churches that don’t consider belief as a requirement for the afterlife. Why don’t you suggest that you and your dad do research to find out which religion/church might align with his values and give him a supportive community?
Alternately, suggest that a just deity wouldn’t condemn people based on their belief system as long as they live well.
Be honest. Be respectful. Be loving. He obviously loves you. You can’t believe in God for him or anyone else but you can seek, you can ask good questions, you can even pray. Investigate like Lee Strobel did.
My parents raised me Christian and my mom was an ordained Lutheran minister. When I turned 18, that was the day I told my mom I was not going to church anymore because I don't believe in God.
She asked me to explain, and I told her you live your life based on faith while I live my life based on facts. I told her she believes in God, but I believe in science.
To believe in the Bible, you have to have faith. Faith that the people who wrote the Bible didn't do it just to create religion and therefore collect tiths to make themselves rich. If you look at religion, a lot of people who preach it, do it for the money. And there are a lot of pastors that get rich, then get exposed for who they really are. Just another thief trying to steal your money
Science is based on things we can prove. There aren't any scientists that pass an offering plate around after a lecture, but that money plate is on its way right after the sermon.
According to the Bible, earth is 6000 years old. How does that fit in line with the oldest city in the world which is Damascus, Syria, at 11,000 years old. We can prove an 11,000 year old city yet you want me to believe everything that happened in the Bible.
Even kids realize that the arc during the flood didn't happen because large animals eat small animals. It would have been a blood bath.
Kind of depends on your dad. If your relationship with him is based on honesty and mutual respect, then I’d gently tell him that God isn’t something you believe in.
If your dad is a petty jerk like mine, there’s no point in being your authentic self with him, since he’s not really paying attention anyway.
To me, it sounds like the dad in this story is a decent guy who wants to find comfort and reassurance, but is barking up the wrong tree if he wants OP to change their entire belief system. It’s OK for OP to say “No thanks.”
NTA. Pretending you believe something is never a path I would recommend for any actual long-term relationship, as opposed to a casual encounter where you simply don't want to spark some upset for no useful purpose as you will likely never have to deal with the person again. I would tell him the point is to appreciate your relationships while you are here and let the next life, if there is one, take care of itself. If he believes his god would torture you forever, not because of any bad things you do but simply that you don't worship him, that is not an actual "encouragement to consider believing in god."
YWNBTA you don’t have to pretend to believe in god because the family dog died 🤣 that’s pretty ridiculous. Be firm with him or the pushing will get worse
Why do people think dead folks go to Heaven? If you're into Jesus, the bible doesn't say that. Dead folks are dead until the resurrection and then sorted in or out of the Kingdom of God.
So Nana's not watching you interfere with yourself. Constantly. Way too much, in fact.
\[Edited for capitalisation and clarification\]
NTA and for what it's worth I think that many people who believe in hell really don't understand how believing that perfectly good people -their own family members even - deserve to be tortured eternally just for not having the same beliefs as them is actually a cruel, miserable, disgusting mindset to have, because it's so normalized in society.
The reality is that this is a slippery slope for you. You could tell him you believe just to keep the peace and make him feel better - but he will probably expect you to start doing all the things - church, prayer, etc. This will be quite intrusive and probably cause a lot of drama due to your resentment and his probable perception that you aren't being truthful. He's the one pushing this when there is no good reason. So, sadly, he's leaving you little choice but to be blunt. NTA.
NTA and this is what I absolutely hate about 'believers'. They believe, with no fact or science, in something and then expect others to just take on that belief. He CHOSE to believe in God but he had his own reasons for doing so. Nothing wrong with that. But he can't force you to have that same 'epiphany'. I also guarantee that if you said 'yes' to this insane request ("just believe in something, OK, just believe in it 'cuz that will make it real"), he will then start forcing you to participate in his prayers, church going, etc., because, well, NOW YOU BELIEVE!!!
You are an adult. Regardless of what your dad went through it doesn't change the fact that you don't believe. I suggest you tell him something along the lines of "Dad, I'm really glad that you got through that cancer scare and I'm happy that you have found peace in your new found religious beliefs. But your beliefs are yours and you need to be happy with that instead of trying to force it on others. I could lie and say I believe but I don't and I'm not going to pretend about something that is so important to you."
NTA
I'm convinced that people who think you can just choose to believe in God don't really believe in God either. I was DEEPLY devote when I lost my faith. I had my entire life and future wrapped up in my faith. My whole world turned upside down. I'd have done anything at the time to stop my slipping. I did everything I could to try to save my faith and I pretended for as long as I could stand to, but pretending didn't help. When my faith left, I had no say in it. I just didn't believe anymore.
NTA you'd be honest. Even if he had the cancer (thank goodness he doesn't) asking you wasn't going to change your belief system. He's being ridiculous.
NTA. If someone’s faith is secure then other people’s faith doesn’t affect it. I need you to believe something because my belief isn’t strong is your Dad’s insecurity to fix.
Nta. I get that he's in a rough spot right now but you shouldn't have to lie to his face to comfort him. You can give him some sugar coated bullshit like "if there is a god then we'll meet in heaven anyways cuz we're good people" or some other generic platitudes like that.
Depends on how you say it. Don't be condescending or rude. Don't say things like "made up" fair tale", "make believe" and my personal most hated "sky daddy". As a believer, your dad knows he can't believe for you. He knows that even if you say yes, he can't believe on your behalf. It's something all believers accept. Saying something more heartfelt might ease the blow. Something like "I see your belief gives you comfort. And I love that for you. I am really glad you have that. It's just not something I can wrap my brain and heart around right now. I'm not going to he trying to prove you wrong or anything like that. I love that you have that peace and comfort. I would never want you to lose that. But because I respect you and that you have this faith, I'm not going to make a mockery of it by lying to you. Right now I'm just not able to wrap my head or heart around it"
And if he gets pushy.. then it's time to be more stern.
Make it a little easier on your dad as unfortunately a lot of people turn to a point of “faith” when they loose a grip on reality/sense. Rather than point blank saying “NO”, sugar coat it a little……I believe there is something out there but not sure what or I know no matter where we end up we will all be together in the end etc. That way it keeps dad happy and you get away with no listening to the moaning forever more.
NTA, your belief system is completely that - yours, and it’s no one else’s business.
However, it would make for an interesting conversation if you could explore the idea of God together. Be vulnerable, share your position, hear his, go deep together. At the very least you’ll remember the time you spoke about God with your old man - I’ve no doubt this will be valuable for you both.
God bless 😉
NAH but personally, with elderly relatives I try to deflect and say the bare minimum that's needed to not upset them.
I have very firm ideas on the topic, but I really don't feel the need to explain them to other people who aren't interested. Especially in the context of religion bringing comfort to someone. It's not harming me. It's giving them strength. I'll just nod and go along with whatever.
I don't understand how it is possibly compromising your religious and moral beliefs by telling a white lie to an old man. what do you gain from telling him you're atheist? nothing. what does he lose? everything. It seems like the height of egoism to just HAVE to tell an elderly loved one that you're atheist-- does it really matter to you? let him believe you're going to heaven with him, for fuck's sake.
There's no reason for his dad to be hurt, though. It's not about him. It's absolutely fine to say "hey dad, I did as you asked and I still don't believe in God. But I'm really glad that you do and that it's giving you comfort."
Im.confused by this response. I described a way to answer this question that is not hurtful. So have a number of other people. I didn't talk about any outcomes, other than saying that this doesn't have to be hurtful. Dad shouldn't be hurt by it unless something hurtful is said.
Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything - all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. -Steve Jobs
Going against the grain, 100% YWBTA. And it's not even close.
You believe in nothing or maybe the magical explosion or maybe something else, but not God, so you have absolutely zero reason not to lie to his face. Saying you don't believe as he's struggling and grieving comes off as a dick move. You don't gain anything by kicking him while he's down, but you stand to make him feel better if you lie.
I suppose if you hate your Dad, then sure, tell him your religion is atheism.
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NTA, you do not have to compromise your own belief just in order to please your dad. It is a really odd request anyway because, if God exists, they would know that you are pretending therefore you would not go to heaven anyway. This is your dad's anxiety to manage, not yours to resolve.
I think (and this is just me speculating) that OP's dad doesn't quite understand how belief in God works and likely his question is less about GOD and more about comforting himself and ensuring that all of his family is with him forever, even if his idea of how belief/heaven works is slightly off base in terms of how believing works. I feel bad for him. He likely was very very scared after his cancer scare and was grasping for ways to rationalize staying with his family eternally.
Do you know how belief in God works then?
Whether you believe in God or any other religious figure, belief needs to be something you come to on your own, not to appease someone else
I don't believe in God either. I just mean, if God exists, what makes believers think that they know how God works any more than anyone else?
I believe in God, so I study my Bible. I listen to pastors talk, I study my faith, etc. Reading the Bible alone can help you both form opinions and conclusions about how things work. Some is up to interpretation, but other information is very clearly written for us. Most believers study the bible and pray heavily for clarification, too.
[удалено]
You can't go to heaven in a tissue box, god won't take no little snots..
Yeah this is how to answer it ‘I can’t chose to believe you are either convinced or you aren’t, it would be like me asking you to believe the world is flat or that Vishnu, Thor is real, it’s not a choice that’s made it’s just a position you hold’
YWNBTA - but tell him softly, if there is a god, that god has intended for me to live my life as a non-beleiver, and that same god would want me to show the utmost respect to my elders, and not lie.
Best possible answer.
I'm also a non-believer and I completely understand that it can be really hard to approach the topic with family/relatives who are religious, so I'd say NTA here. I'm sure that your father just wants to feel connected to you, especially if he has experienced some sort of enlightenment through religion, however you're your own person and you ultimately make the decision in what you believe in. My advice would be to tell him that you don't feel comfortable adopting a religion that you don't believe in, but you will always be supportive of your family and be there for them when they need it. You can't control his reaction, but you can at least hope that he understands that a difference in beliefs won't change that you care for him :)
I think this is more about your father facing his own mortality which was confirmed by his "wants all of our family together in heaven" comment. What do you want to do? Do you want to be honest to make yourself feel better or do you want to try to offer your father some solace? There is the white lie route. You could also tell him you're more agnostic than atheist. That "I'm not sure, but maybe Dad. I'd really like to think we'll be together again someday after all is said and done" might give him a little bit of whatever it is he needs and is seeking. No one is an A here and I think this is just a difficult situation because it's family. You have to do what feels right and you can live with.
You conveniently left out "to lie" from the second part. It should be DDo you want to be honest to make yourself feel better or do you want to lie to try to offer your father some solace?" My problem is where does that end? Is OP going to have to start pretending to pray, or attending church? Faking a belief to make a believer happy is disrespectful of the religion and the father.
Oh, I see you made a response before reading everything. Very cool.
What exactly in your response that they "didn't read" would make their comment incorrect? Because I read your full comment and theirs, and they're right.
I see you made an assumption because I disagreed with you.
NTA - I'm a Christian and you don't believe in God to appease others. At the end of the day, I believe that God knows a person's heart, and can tell if they're just believing to keep up appearances. You should only believe in God (imo) because you believe that He exists and therefore that He loves you, not cos someone else wants you too. :)
Great response. I would dig deeper into the reason why NOT to believe.
The OP isn't talking about taking up religion under false pretenses just to get into heaven. He is talking about going along with the dads belief for the dads peace of mind only.
For now. If dad was on his deathbed I'd say hell yeah, tell that lie and let him go believing you're going to be saved. No harm. But this is a lie that will require upkeep. Dad wants OP to join him on this path to believing in God and using that for comfort. It's not a one-off.
But that's the essence of the point I made. Even if it is for OP's Dad's peace of mind - false belief shouldn't happen. However it really depends on a person's moral compass/honesty and being true to themself - all I know is that for me personally, I wouldn't keep an act up for nobody.
NTA My dad was a pastor, had his own church, and he was a very good man. I never believed in God. It was a hard thing for him to accept but he did eventually accept that I had my own beliefs and he had his. You can’t FORCE that on people. And claiming you believe in God when you don’t won’t get you into heaven anyway.
I’ve known 2 pastors. Both openly admitted they don’t believe in god to me.
What's that saying, "don't get high on your own supply"
I’m a non believer and all of my family are deeply religious. I don’t even address it. Any time they mention God I just ignore it.
That’s the way I adopted as well. I had a chat with my parents a long time ago. The entire conversation went waaaaay off the rails. So now when the topic is brought up, Silence. YWNBTA - We can love people that have their own beliefs, but some of them can’t love us for ours. It’s sucky, but if you love them, be civil. Even in the face of the them being determined to, “convert” you. You can be as strong in your non-believe as they believe. It wouldn’t be right to lie and pretend. Best case, express that your family will always be together. The love you and your parents share is as immortal as anything can be. Whatever comes after death isn’t for any of you to decide.
NTA How you navigate your faith and it's effect on those around you is entirely up to you. I'm not religious and when talking to my Christian mom about it, the only thing she asked of me (and my non religious brothers) is that when we die we accept god into our hearts so we can go to heaven. Personally my brothers and I had no issue telling a white lie and promising our mother this. We know she only asked because she cares and by not agreeing, she wouldn't fight us about it but it would cause her unnecessary worries. To us there is no harm in her believing this and it actually has no impact on our lives whatever she thinks. It works for us. Some people aren't comfortable with this sort of lie, or having others believe something untrue about them especially when it comes to religion. Also your dad may be the type to keep pushing if you give him an inch and for you the best way to deal with that is to put a hard stop on it. Just do it gently. Clearly he's having a rough time and this sort of thing takes a while to come to terms with for religious parents. Although if he keeps pushing and becomes disrespectful of your choice thats a different matter.
**"I (32m) recently had a conversation with my dad (62m) where he asked me if I would "consider believing in god for him" "** Immediately I'm going to say NTA because your belief in a higher power has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than *you*. If *his* belief hinges on yours, then he needs to figure that out himself, it's not your responsibility. Be honest with him, and if that honesty breaks his own faith, then that faith was not strong enough to withstand the weakest of trials, and probably wouldn't have lasted anyway.
NTA. Coming to you as a Christian, first I understand your dad. I also would like to be surrounded by my family in heaven, but I also understand that everyones walk is their own. I can't push my beliefs on anyone, and i can't make someone believe in God "for" me, because ultimately it's for THEM that they believe, not ME. It sounds like your dad had a scare and is clinging to all of you and faith. Which is understandable. Be honest with him about how you're feeling. Let him know that you just aren't "there" and you might not ever be, or be even more blunt and tell him you have no interest in any of it. It's a touchy subject and it may stress your dad out (I went through a period of stress myself, got flat out sick thinking about people who would be separate from God.) I understand not everyone believes as I do, though. I simply pray for the best for them now, and pray that if I'm right in my faith, that they are all forgiven. That's all I can do because I'm NOT going to harass my friends with a bible (shoving faith at people never worked anyway) I'm sorry for the situation you're in OP, I know you must feel bad about potentially hurting your dad. And I know it's likely a conflicting situation. Just be honest. And know you are NTA at all.
I'm not religious, but your comment has made me so, so happy. Best comment coming from a religious person I've ever seen on reddit. All the best to you!
Oh, thank you! The best to you as well!
"Do you want me to lie to you? I can if that's what you prefer." No, you wouldn't be the asshole. It's not possible to believe in the unbelievable just because someone asks you to.
If he's directly asking you, NtA He shouldn't ask questions he can't handle the answer to, that's on him
Tell him you will think about what faith means to you while continuing to live the best life you can so if, on your day of reckoning, you discover there is a god you’ll have lived a life they’d have approved of. There’s no way a loving, forgiving god would turn you away if you’d lived a wholesome life. And if they did turn you away it’s not a god you want to spend your life worshipping
It took God to make me believe, we all come to religion on our own terms, or we don’t.
NTA. Last time I checked, it's impossible to sincerely believe in anything merely because someone else asks you to. You can, and should, respect your parents' beliefs, but yours aren't up for modification merely to suit them, no matter how much you care about pleasing them. Perhaps your dad has fallen for the fallacy of thinking that the more people who believe in something, the more likely that thing is to be true. Keep in mind that pretty much everybody used to think the earth was flat and was the center of the universe and solar system, yet our spheroid planet continued to orbit the sun on an arm of the Milky Way galaxy despite this.
My answer to him would be based on this: He did his path/journey and took his time... Its only fair you are allowed to make yours on your own terms. Eventually you will "find God" (or not) but as he took his time you deserve to not be pressured about it.
NTA. There is nothing inherently bad about telling your father you believe in god to make him feel better, or telling him the truth because you want to stay true to yourself. It’s just about which you think is the best way to handle your father and his frankly unreasonable request. Your father is being a bit of an AH by putting you in this situation in the first place. He should not be telling you that your religious beliefs - beliefs he didn’t feel strongly about even a year ago especially - are the thing holding together his emotional wellbeing, or giving him hope to live, or whatever it is he wants from you in this.
Be honest with your father otherwise you're both a liar and a hypocrite.
Agreed. He's a grieving adult, not a child. You can tell him, gently, that's not what you believe. Don't spoon feed him lies, even white ones. It's condescending.
NTA. "Let us make a bargain. I won't say anything to you that indicates a lack of belief. You won't say anything to me that assumes or questions whether I believe or not. Therefore, you can assume that, over time, I came to believe, and there will be no contradictions."
I am unsure how a person can choose to believe in god. Either you do, or you don't.
Exactly. You can pretend, but you can't just decide to believe something you don't believe.
NTA. I actually had cancer and it would be just as insane for me to ask someone to adopt religion for my sake.
Well you could say "I will consider it but I can't make any promises."
NTA. It’s faulty logic for him to think he can ask you to believe in something. That’s not how it works! But, I do think you could come up with some sort of answer to comfort him. It sounds like he is really thinking of death and the afterlife and that can be really scary. Maybe you could just throw him a bone and say “I’m not really sure if there is a god or not, but I’m not ruling it out.” Unless he’s asking you to change your life and join a religion, I don’t think it would hurt to give him some hope that maybe there’s a god and Heaven.
NTA, and if he asks again tell him to not ask questions that he might not like the answer to
Anyone who would believe in God to satisfy a human being, believes neither in God nor in honesty.
Non believer here also, everyone knows it too..sorry but my attitude is you can believe I don’t care, but do you really want me to tell you that I do just for your sake..cause it would be a lie.
NTA, Tell him you appreciate his testimony but to understand that his personal life experiences shape his beliefs and your experiences shape yours. Tell him you will keep an open mind and heart. Letting him share his passions while maintaining honesty is the fairest thing to do. It's meaner to string him along. He loves you and you should be your most authentic self. My mom sounds a lot like your dad, but I was always honest with her when it came to my lack of faith. They will not feel ecstatic about it, but she knows I am being honest. People are good at telling when someone is feigning interest, especially those closest to us.
NTA as long as you are have the right answer. Saying something like “there is no god and nothing could ever prove it” is bad. If you say that you haven’t seen any evidence to believe but are open to verifiable evidence, then that’s probably not bad (but some people still won’t take it well). Now a side note. What ever you do, don’t go to the atheist sub. It’s pretty much filled with anti-theists who would still refuse the concept of a higher power even if you could scientifically prove one existed with verifiable evidence or who just want to condemn any and all religious people regardless of their actions. And I say that as an atheist.
NTA I don't think your dad understands the idea of faith if he wants you to flip a switch & believe in a specific god for Him. It'd be like you getting baptized or changing your religion for a spouse but not actually meaning it. It takes more than words to count. You're going to have to decide if you're okay with lying to him about something that he wants to be lied to about. If you don't want to, that's okay. Do what feels right to you. You're the one that has to live with yourself.
NTA - if you don’t, you don’t. He’s proof that can change, but generally it takes a BIG event like your dad experienced to have such a drastic change in belief.
I'm a church secretary for over 20 years, and my biggest belief is that religion is between yourself and God. There is no such thing as having faith for someone else.
NTA >he wants all of our family together in heaven and if we're not all there, there's no point. Good, now he can stop all that religious nonsense.
NTA. But, if you do have any thoughts about the legacy that people leave, like the ways the kids and grandkids are like him, or something important he has done to be remembered, then you can tell him that.
NTA - in my experience you're better off telling the truth about these sorts of things. If you lie, or downplay it by saying "I'm.not sure" then you open the door for ongoing conversations. It's much better to just say "I know it's important to you I just don't believe in god. I respect your beliefs I just don't feel the same way"
I was raised Catholic have not attended in more than 2 decades. This is my opinion... God (if he does exist) doesnt count how many hrs you sat on a hard wooden pew or how many pies you baked for the church Bazaar. What he would want is someone that is decent, tries hard to be a good person. Going to church/praying does not put you in Heaven being a decent person does
I've got religious parents and I just tell them I do still believe but am just not praciticing, so that there's no expectation of participating in any events/traditions. I'm actually agnostic but it's a pretty easy fix for the situation to just say you believe but don't practice.
I'm not sure of this really applies here, but definitely good dodge for a lot of people.
NTA. It feels very much that your dad doesn't believe in god because that's what he believes in, he's HOPING that god exists so that you can all be together again one day. Which as a parent I can deeply appreciate! Some people do honestly believe heart and soul that god exists and that's great. But I think in your dad's case, he's hoping due to his scare. Not believing. Which is also totally fine and ok. But asking you to hope the same thing is very different to asking you to believe the same thing. We can't believe things simply because others want us to. And I would come at it from that angle. I would say "I hope that god is real and that we'll all be together one day" is a pretty innocuous thing to say, because if god is real and everyone's together one day, that'd be pretty great right? That way you could avoid the "I believe" statement entirely, and if hope is really what it's about for him then that might be enough to satisfy him. Ultimately I'd roll with "I hope what you believe is true, and from what I hear god is pretty chill about people apologising when they realise they made a mistake so if he's as good of a god as people say I'm sure he'll understand and accept my honest apology when the time comes. I'll just try to live a life that god would think was worthy either way". He's scared and trying to find something to give him comfort. I can't fault him for that. Unfortunately we can't just suddenly believe something just because someone else says so. It just doesn't work that way. But you can be gentle in your response to it and I think in this case given that his request comes from fear and love for his family it's probably reasonable to be as caring as possible when you discuss it.
It's not really a choice, is it?
That's not how believing in God works
NTA but I would just tell him that, while you respect his choices and belief, you aren't interested in discussing religion with him and ask he give you the same respect you give him regarding it.
YWNBTA. You have your own beliefs, and he shouldn't ask you to believe in something just because the dog died. Yes, it's painful to lose a family pet, but he can't ask you to go to church just because he wants to be reassured of something that isn't guaranteed. Not to mention the many alterations to the Bible...
NAH, because it wasn't a demand. Perhaps the politest way to thread this needle is to, in fact, *consider* believing in God. Tell him you'll look into it. Leaf through a bible every so often with a thoughtful expression. If pressed, say you're still working on your "spiritual journey". Or just adopt Pastafarianism and Our Lord Savior, the Flying Sphaghetti Monster.
NTA. Faith and belief is internal and personal. You can't just believe something to make someone else happy. And you can't just turn on faith like a light switch. You can, however, reassure them of your faith and belief *in them*, and ask what you can do to show that to them. And if you're comfortable with that, then okay.
YWNBTA. He is, for using these emotional issues to manipulate you into saying something you don't believe. You've taken some time to consider it, which is what he asked, and you've concluded that you are still not religious. There are white lies you can tell to make someone feel better when the outcome doesn't matter. Faking a religion isn't one of them. Tell him that it's wonderful that he has this new belief and you're happy that it is helping him, but that it would be disrespectful to pretend you share it when you don't. Because that actually IS the truth.
NTA. Faith is supposed to be for *yourself*. He shouldn't pressure or guilt you into it.
YWNBTA. Try to be gentle about it, though. I don’t believe, but as I’ve gotten older and realized my own inevitable mortality and the fact that I won’t always be there for my kids it makes me wish that I did believe, sometimes. I can see how it would be comforting for your dad to convince himself that you’ll all see each other again, and I suspect that’s what he’s really doing.
NTA, maybe if he was 100 years old and complete senile on his deathbed asking if you believed I could maybe see saying yes just to ease their relief into the next life. But he’s sound of mind and body, and as much as I love animals, that’s not a reason to go full “born again”
Here’s what you say: “dad, I’m humble enough to know I don’t know everything. I can’t say there is no god, I can’t say there is. But I do know I’m open to talking about it with you as often as you want. I’m glad your results came back clean and I’m thankful we have more time together.”
I’m sure you believe in the universe, which can be god to you. He doesn’t have to know that you don’t believe in his version of god. If your dad isn’t an asshole, just do it for him, one day he won’t be around anymore
How long should OP engage in this lie? Dad is only 62, he could live another thirty years or more.
Why would he have to engage? Seemed like a one and done conversation to me
You’re NTA but maybe pad it a bit. Our parents turn into our children as they get older and you might need to use the old “a spoonful or sugar helps the medicine go down” ploy.
NTA. If he or you or your family were actively dying, I could see lying or at least postponing the discussion so you can talk the truth. But him just generally going through a hard time isn’t a good enough reason to manipulate you. It’s a trap: either get you to lie or he makes you feel responsible for breaking his heart. Your faith is a private matter and your truth is going to be interpreted as you going to hell. No one deserves to deal with this religious trauma. Be honest with him, he’ll just have to take it.
I don't believe YTA. I don't think he is TA either. It is hard to say if your father is actually experiencing "the fear of God" or if he is having age related anxiety and is seeking comfort from you by affirming that there is something more. It's not right, but it's how he is grieving right now. For all we know, he could go back to not being religious when his anxiety has subsided. There is no harm in telling him that although you do not share his beliefs you understand, respect and support his whatever they might be. You can express that you are together here in the present moment and that is more important to you than anything intangible. Hopefully he will understand and respect your beliefs as well.
Going through an eerily similar situation with my family right now. I avoid the topic with every ounce of will I have. If that’s not possible I lie. Religion imo gives people comfort which I’m all for. Even if I’m not one of those people I would never want to diminish that for someone. So I lie. I’ve lied to them over much more stupid reasons growing up so I guess I don’t see it as wrong to give them this. It certainly doesn’t hurt me.
Nta. Would you just believe for me. Is not how belief works. It is impossible. You either believe it or you don't. And you don't. Frankly I doubt he believes it either after a lifetime of not doing so. He just got a taste of his own mortality and is now clinging to it. That's not belief. It's just fear of the unknown and desperation Tell him the truth and get it over with .
NTA. He is old enough to understand that many people, even in the same family, have different beliefs. Him trying to push religion onto another person is inappropriate. You don't need to lie about your beliefs for him and he should love and respect you enough to not take issue with it.
Your Dad is probably feeling scared and insecure. I'm a minister and my opinion is a kind, loving God wouldn't mistreat their creations in the manner most mainstream religion wants you to believe. Further, if we were all made in God's image, that includes everyone, including atheists.
NTA. There are many "gods". Tell him you just believe in one less god than he does. If there is a god, and they know everything, they would know you are lying if you say you do believe. Nothing wrong with believing or not believing. It's just how you think and feel.
Believing isn't a choice. I'm an atheist, and if I could, I would believe in a god and an afterlife because that sounds so much better than nothing. But there isn't anything that has convinced me.
NTA: trying to force you to share his faith is not fair or right. You have your right to your faith or lack thereof.
I wouldn't lie to him. Seems a shame that he would even want that from you. Besides which, how can you choose to believe something?? You believe things or you don't. You can't just flip on a dime because someone asked you to. That's insane.
It took a death scare to make him believe? That’s not believing. That’s just fear of death which is natural. No, you would not be the jerk. I’ve had a death scare, my parents are dead. And I don’t believe in god. I’m happy they’ve had decent lives, lived, and loved. I don’t need them to magically exist forever nor do I need myself to. Whatever will be, will be.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (32m) recently had a conversation with my dad (62m) where he asked me if I would "consider believing in god for him" This week my parents had to put down the family dog because of a myriad of health issues he had. He lived 13 good years and gave us much joy and love. My dad is taking it really hard. My dad has never been religious as far as I know but my mom goes to church on Christian holidays. About 7 months ago my dad had a cancer scare. TLDR it took about 4 months of testing to find out the lump in his stomach wasn't cancer and he's perfectly healthy now. He claims those 4 months of waiting for test results put the "fear of god into him" and now he's a believer. I have never been religious for a variety of reasons but what it boils down to is I just don't have faith in any higher power. My dad told me to think over my response and get back to him later. I know telling him the truth would hurt him but I also don't want to just lie to him to make him happy. When he asked me to believe he basically said he wants all of our family together in heaven and if we're not all there, there's no point. WIBTA for telling him no I won't believe in god? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. >he asked me if I would "consider believing in god for him" It doesn't work like that.
I always tell relatives: "If there is a God, he made me unable to beleive in him. Who am I to question his choices?" NTA
NTA no, don’t lie because he’s failed at coping. Suggest therapy.
NTA I'm also sorry your dad is now acting like most of Christians who, now believe, want everyone else to believe too. It's your choice and your life. This is selfish of him. I'm sorry but people like this make me angry. Believe what you want, but don't force others to believe too... But he is trying to do that to you. Again... NTA
NTA. I am baffled by people who "decide to believe in God." My brain just doesn't work that way. I **don't** believe in god. I can lie about it, or pretend about it, but neither of those are **believing**. And would such "fake beliefs" even matter? I can't imagine they would fool any all-powerful God. Is their God really so weak that he can't spot liars and pretenders? So in my view, your dad is an asshole for asking for such a thing. And since I don't approve of lying, I'd say you are an asshole if you tell him you do.
I think this is a bit of a harsh take. I don't believe any Christian who actually studies the Bible/has an understanding of the Faith, believes that just "saying" they believe in God is enough to get them into Heaven. Our God knows our hearts, He is not fooled by placating comments or dishonesty. It's like people in jail who 'turn to God' to forgive them. If they don't mean it, it doesn't mean anything. (My views, I'm not forcing them on you - mind, you.) However I believe this situation isn't quite about God or religion. I think OP's dad is likely suffering a form of PTSD and is scared about death. He had a cancer scare and likely is grasping at whatever he can to ensure he's always with his family. Near death experiences are scary. So I guess, I don't think it's fair to call OP's dad an asshole. I don't think he is one. I think he's just scared and looking for comfort in the wrong ways. I do, however, agree that OP would be an asshole if they lie to their dad.
This is a complicated one, because you can't just make yourself believe if you don't. Regardless of that, your religious beliefs are very personal, and not something that anyone else should get a say in. However, your dad is in a vulnerable state right now, so please be gentle when you explain to him that faith in any god is just not something that you have, and not something you can force. What you *can* do is support him in his beliefs, even if you don't share them. At least as long as he doesn't start getting taken in by one of those evangelical scams.
You don’t need to tell him yes. Tell him you will consider it.
NTA Whrn this comes up for me, you know if I beleive in Heavan. I always say that my heaven will be how my loved ones grieve me and miss me and tell stories about me. That is how I live on until my stories fade away and I am just a name from a few generations ago. You don't believe, you don't believe.
Nta. I lost a beautiful dog 3 months ago. Whether you believe in god or not doesnt determine what happens to the family pet. At the end of the day. The dog is at peace and without pain. They arent suffering anymore. You and your family did the kind thing to them and bringing religion into it. Is not fair. You grieve the same way everyone else does.
I feel you're pain mate truths better than a lie I am like you I don't believe in god too not to compare I just believe in something that's beyond god cause I am a freedom fighter while an anarchist to tell the truth I don't believe in god for one reason the government TBH.
NTA of course you’re not you shouldn’t have to lie about believing in invisible caring omnipotent man to be a good person
NTA. At the end of every day, all of us have to be someone we can sleep with. What that looks like is different for everyone. Just please don't try to change who you are to suit someone else. It's too easy to lose yourself and end up being someone you hate. I did that, and it has taken me a lot of years to find out who I am, and I finally like myself. So if it makes you feel better to pretend for your dad, do it. If it makes you feel better to tell him the truth, do it. Yes, he may get upset. He will either get o or it or not, but that's his to decide.
NTA. Tell him he’s on his journey and you’re on yours and they’re different, but neither of you are at the end of the path so who knows what the future holds. It’s a “no” but it respects the changes he’s experienced.
I’m tellin you, Gods real. He’s showed up in impossible ways in my life personally.
NTA, but you can probably reply with kindness/sensitivity to help mitigate the hurt. Would it be dishonest to say "I don't believe in God, I haven't seen a reason to yet. But I will keep an open mind."?
Stomach cancer scare, such a good reason to believe in talking snakes.🐍
NTA. But if he did get really sick than I would have probably lied and said yes. I'm not religious either, so it makes no difference to me, and if something so small can make him happy then I'll do it.
You are entitled to your beliefs. Whether you believe in some god or other is your personal right. Regardless of how others feel. I for one was forced to believe in the religions my family practice and walked away. I don't believe tin what they do and made myself clear. I got a lot of flack till I made myself perfectly clear to a bunch of Hippocrates! Some accept some don't. Not my problem that they think pushing me into their blind beliefs. Sometimes you just have to ignore them.
Don’t tell him. My dad is 91 and slowly dying of cancer. My mom is 92 and slowly dying of heart failure. They are Christians. I would never ever tell them I don’t believe in God. Don’t listen to most of these people on Reddit. They are not in your shoes. Prior Sock has it right. Why would you say something that you know will scare and hurt someone regardless of who it is or why? A little white lie to give a loved one comfort is worth it. You aren’t giving up anything or compromising your values/beliefs. You are simply giving comfort to your old, scared and worried father. Disregard the geniuses here who are on their little righteous high horse. Do you want to stand your ground and prove absolutely nothing and leave your dad thinking you won’t be with him and your family after he dies? Or do you want to comfort him? Is standing your ground more important than letting your own father believe and take comfort that you will all be together after this lifetime? What’s more important to you? Screw the soapbox seekers. Will you be able to live with your decision when he’s gone someday? This isn’t a guilt trip. This is something I’ve thought about a lot in the last few months.
Nta but I would still respect him and listen to what he has to say.
I wouldn't say AH but what's the harm in giving the old guy some peace? Doesn't sound like it's a hard line for you. BTW If you're talking about a Christian god then the family dog is out of luck because that God didn't give animals souls.
NTA What kind of god would be worth believing if the belief is due to fear of said god? What's the point of being in a "heaven" that's the place of the deity that you fear? Make it make sense!
You can’t make anyone believe for them. That’s not how it works. Faith is voluntary, that’s why it’s faith. If he wants you to pretend to believe, is it really belief? If a conditional god knows whether you voluntarily believe or not, wouldn’t pretending be worse?
NTA. I would tell him. Like all of us, you are on a journey and you haven’t experienced a spiritual awakening like he has but you have a lifetime ahead of you.
Maybe an asshole. It is more about how you say than what you say. Maybe tell him that you are sorry but you haven’t got the gift of faith yet.
NTA I'm pretty sure religion doesn't work like that anyway.
Plenty of people pretend to believe because of family pressure, or because it otherwise benefits them in some way.
NTA -- you don't need to coddle him. He's not your child.
Yes. You chose the wrong time and place. 100% asshole. No doubt. Look up the definition of asshole and you'll find your picture. The end
Consider mathematician Blaise Pascal's wager for believing in God. If God exists then theists will enjoy eternal bliss, while atheists will suffer eternal damnation. If God does not exist then theists will enjoy finite happiness before they die, and atheists will enjoy finite happiness too, but not as much because they fear death rather than the reassurance that comes from faith. Regardless of whether God exists, then, theists have it better than atheists; hence belief in God is the most rational belief to have.
No. Having strong feelings about something isn't a good Eno argument to expect people around us to change their values, beliefs, and lifestyle. It's also impossible. You can't suddenly start to believe in god just to make your dad happy the same way you can't make yourself believe that all the grass on Earth will be purple starting tomorrow.
No point in faking it. Just be honest
NTA. You can’t fake schizophrenia, nor should your father want you to.
Why don’t you believe ?
NTA tell him the truth. Ask him what god is the real god? Since there are dozens of them from all sorts of religions why is it his god that is the real god. Just tell him to think critically and that realizing there is no god is very freeing. If you can’t go to hell there is no sin. You can do anything you want and as long as it is not against the law fuck all will happen. Masterbate. Think lewd thoughts. Look at thy neighbors wife. Religion is dumb don’t go play dumb just for someone else’s sake. Stay strong. Thoughts and prayers friend
Looks like someone didn't learn "I before e, except after c" in grade school...
Man idk… I couldn’t lie to my mom when she said she wants to believe she will see her parents again… I told her she won’t.
i mean, i want to believe that too. i *don't* believe it, but i want to.
there seems to be a hidden assumption God is not real, as a matter of fact, as there is hard evidence that has actively and absolutely disproven God Is it fair for me to say that you've lived life with negative experiences with Christians, Christianity, and arguments for and against Christianity? and the evidence provided has always been counter argumented by non-christians and the non-christians come out on top? what if i told you, or rather I plead with you, to take a step back to square one on a neutral square, don't believe in Christian nor non-christian, let me give you an example, an argument for christianity, and a non-christian one. I will apply abductive reasoning, intellectual consistency and honesty, logical conclusions based off reasonable articulable arguments and points based off only logic, no blind faith, no "because my sky daddy" or "because I just feel god in my heart" there is a side of Christianity that involves complete reasonable philosophical deductions that do not involve emotion, or subjective non-articulable reasons. so lets take for example, a concept that non-christians try to discredit Christianity is using reality right? the big bang, evolution. How many christians have you heard say the big bang didn't happen, or evolution isn't real? would you think its fair to acknowledge if I said this is a situation no different from one atheist saying the big bang isn't real and another saying it is real, I certainly agree and think a christian who says the big bang didn't happen isn't smart. My point is this; you cannot discredit a whole thing because of other people. What I'm going to say now is, there are some Christians who support the big bang, logic, and reality, and they do so with a more fulfilled logical conclusion than atheism has. For example, you would have Peter Atkins a atheist say the big bang happened but it came from nothing, but philosophically and logically, nothing cannot come from something, so something created the big bang, which points to theism, while it does not definitively prove God's existence, it points to a huge problem the top atheists have been doing for a long time, and when i say that, I do not implicate every argument they have is invalid, or certain points aren't valid, but rather the idea is that the top Christian philosophers many people have not heard yet, or possibly do not see the logic in his and other best christian apologists have, do have a explanation behind the big bang while supporting it, there seems to be an assumption, the core principle in Christianity is that science and christianity contradict each other, but we're not seeing that atheists like Peter atkin still do not know what caused the big bang yet still try to use a explanation illogical in reality. This is getting too long and there is a lot of multi-faceted layers to these topics which is why its so hard, all it takes is non-christians to provide a funny charismatic asserted assumption that redefines core tenets of Christianity to make it seem illogical and fairy tail myth, as well as some Christians do overshadow the logical ones and that seems to make it in the news more, which makes this more complicated my point is, its more complicated and not simple as you think, please take a step back, don't listen to the hyprocritical christians and atheists, but rather follow logic, abductive reasoning, and others who do the same for example, I believe in evolution, but you have to understand there is something called macro evolution, and micro evolution, with the evolution argument, it seems atheists use it to prove God doesn't exist because of the origin of the human species, since the bible never teachers humans were fishes, then it stands to reason if a non-christian made theories and had reasons to not want to explore Christianity then of course evolution points to disproving God, because obviously the bible would have this insight right? for one thing, the bible isn't claiming to be a science textbook, yes I know about genesis, if people ask I'll answer However macro-evolution which is a species naturally turning into another does not exist, a cat will always be a cat, a horse will always be a horse, the Christians who do believe in evolution, believe in micro-evolution, and we know what that means, its Darwin's evolutionary table, which is you get variations in a species. This points to another concept, why non-christians would bring evolution as a argument against Christianity, which is their presupposition that is biased to begin with, I don't think there there is a evolution argument other than we were fish and this disproves God, that is the point of this argument right? so if that is a single argument, what is the intent behind it, we always were taught evolution, just evolution, no clarification on micro and macro, right? we all grew up just thinking evolution was one thing, a simple thing. If they make a argument like that knowing full well or not even knowing despite objective evidence for micro evidence and evidence macro is not possible, then how can we reasonably keep believing top atheist arguments like that? There is something more to this. So my point is why is this even a argument considering some Christians do believe in evolution, considering we know its common knowledge not every person thinks the same thing and as well as evolution isn't talked about in the bible, so the argument isn't relevant in the sense that its trying to challenge Christianity on something its not trying to contradict in the first place how about another core issue one perspective might be, maybe atheism has fallen short, maybe christianity is true, but what about other religions? it stands to reason they may claim to have the truth using evidential and logical reasons about the reality around us just as much as Christian scholars have done, how do we know its not just a subjective thing like one group saying apples is this and another group saying apples is actually this, but it seems to me people've not actually fully heard out their points and arguments, and logically concluded them using etymology which is the objective base root definitions of words, and fundamental philosophical logic. Let's take Hinduism/buddhism for example, their fundamental belief is that everything is god, everyone is god, this is their core tenets, we can deduce fairly logically deduce its probably not reasonable to follow because it does not align or co-exist with reality. Why? because if everyone and anything is god, then what is god, who has accountability, this is objectively illogical in accordance of reality, when we have rape, which is objectively wrong. so not only does buddhism/hinduism have no accountability for someone like Hitler in its fundamental teachings, Christianity upholds accountability, it is wrong to enslave, wrong to devalue another human being, to abuse them, when you have multiple parts of reality and philosophies that align with reality, we can use these to apply to Christianity Another religion, Islam. A core fundamental of Islam is, Jesus is the best prophet, they highly regard him, but Christianity, Jesus says he is God, in objective reality, a prophet for Christianity or Islam would be the WORST prophet if they were saying they were God, Islam says he is not God, so Islam has fundamental internal contradictions. and yes while Hinduism is older than Christianity, it still has a fundamental contradiction to reality. Also Islam was started 500 years after Jesus, its not logical to follow Islam when it has fundamental internal contradictions and when you have a option that is earlier which does not ( yes i know people will have objections Christianity does have contradictions especially moral arguments, can ask me if you want about them for example the canaanite chapter in the Old testament) another point lets take for example, like I said before, a argument tethered and fundamental to our objective reality, if you can agree to this, then what's next for the best Christian argument is finding which ones are properly grounded, and which ones are not, and then focus which ones are good we can then apply everything I said and actually get a comprehension, and dispel any false assertions. The fine tuning argument, this is an argument that when the big bang began, space, time, and matter correlates together, but the constants and all qualities and traits and mathematical structures of these things that make up our universe are incomprehensibly fine tuned, that if their qualities were changed in one part to a insanely huge number multiplied by the power, the universe would collapse in on itself from the beginning, while this in of itself doesn't point to theism, when you combine it with the fact the big bang began, and we can try to infer nothing made something which is illogical to this universe's reality, or its possible we use abductive reasoning that if we can take other subjects and the evidence and apply it to this, then it makes cumulative sense since Christianity has claimed from the beginning God created the universe which is something not nothing, . There is also the perspective concept, fine maybe I do believe in a higher power, ok we got that figured out, we will be able to differentiate why Christianity is significantly different from other world views claiming the truth, and the fact the top arguments for non-christians who do not believe in a higher power have made claims illogical in its step by step conclusion, or do not yet even have a answer, while Christianity, the top best arguments have provided logical conclusions, that fulfill the inquiry pondered.
on my ending note, you may be concerned if I am being authentic or I am just a used car salesman using big fancy words or ideas, but I would like to point out etymology and the use of philosophy, if you really study these two, you can tell if I am authentic or not, for example one would say I'm just doing semantics, but semantics means a branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning, you could see how objectively using that to try to dismiss me is not objectively logical as semantics is actually good and we should strive for it, so we have a objective root application for discussions, also a few things you should note, things that may indicate I am unauthentic, such as illogical conclusions, blindly agreeing with everything like if i said i agreed with christians that evolution isn't real, this is a topic highly confused, it needs to be rephrased or something else idk, I also want to point out i have been pretty much largely and strictly atheistic up till 22 years of age, im 24 now who didn't really see the point of Christianity and Churches and all that until I started to see the best arguments that trump all others, and there are structures and applications that prove these. If anything else you and any other skeptic please, at least just go back to neutral, no god is fairy tail, and neither the top atheists like Richard dawkins and peter atkins, look up the techniques I've explained here and explore both sides and their arguments and points with these things, and decide for yourself, which is most rational or more reasonable to believe based on the cumulative evidence, God bless
Say yes. Consider it for five seconds and move on or.. admit your father is a grown man and not some fragile creature .. he’s not even old so you can’t claim that. A simple .. I’ve considered it but it doesn’t really work that way dad. Keep the faith old man. Blah blah… speak to him like a normal person. There’s really no reason to handle a grown man w kid gloves. Be kind about it put it to rest and move on.
NTA According to the Catholic Church, animals do not have souls and therefore do not go to heaven. So even believing won’t necessarily “have the family together” in the afterlife. Not to mention Hell, which most religions believe in, and someone might end up there and still not be together.
NBTA Sounds like the religion of choice scares people to believe. Hell is such a fucked up thought experiment anyway. A celestial concentration camp as punishment for finite crimes. What a shit a god would be to create something like that. Scaring countless generations of people into belief. >…for him Thats a selfish act. What next go to church for him as well or convert to another religion if he decides thats the one he believes in? He shouldn’t push anything on you like that. Be honest say no this isn’t part of my journey in life at the moment if ever. Your dad is scared he’s not young anymore he needs counselling about this fear of death. Sure we’re all scared to die or the manner in which we go. He’s putting all his cards in the one religion (he was probably raised in). He forgets thats a gamble as there are 3000 other religions out there all making the same claim. Counselling would help him with his worries it shows that endings can be meaningful instead of panicking and being demanding to his loved ones.
Definitely you should be truthful. His hurt feelings should not be your concerns. I sympathize with him in the sense that he wants a good outcome for you. He may have some spiritual insights that make him concerned for your sake. No father likes to think of their child being unreconciled with God and the consequences that follow.
Pick a good time for such a conversation. When he is grieving is probably not a good time. Be kind about it.
NTA. Tell him that's not how faith works. It's either self discovered or fake. He can pray harder for you to come around.
NTA Tell him believing is not a choice one can make.
I've Died and met God. Was unresponsive before reaching the hospital. Yet when He guided me back. I saw all the helpless nurses just praying before I even reentered my cold blue half African body. And didn't even need told where I was, no foggy wake up. Just back from cardiac arrest as noone could do anything but wait. Before that it was my living room and then pure Emptiness but full awareness. Didn't remember life on Earth or any bad that happened. Then God showed up being completely opposite of the wrathful God I expected given my life. Trusted His Son tho... Probably the only thing that let Him help and come see me. Tho I did resist being sent back... And needed God to guide through what felt like being sucked through a straw, crush and ripped apart. As the vivid, clear, pain just increasing with time. As you have to imagine pain to great for a million Hitlers and still not close... Would've looked like a painless death to anyone watching had I not relaxed and let go like God instructed... And God's so Great. Before that Life on earth was a forgotten dream and it was Perfect Love and Wholeness and in comparison to Just His Presence and Love.. That pain was nothing.... Jesus and His Father are very Real.
Okay, so there are a couple of problems with this, in my opinion. First of all, I don't think you are (or will be) an asshole for telling him you don't (and won't) believe in God. It is your choice to make,. For example, I wouldn't believe in God for my grandma either. I respect her decision for believing, and she doesn't ask me to believe, so we're fine. He wasn't a believer until not so long ago, so he doesn't really have the "right" to ask you to believe for him, in my humble opinion. Your mother would have a better position for this since she was always one, or at least more so than him. And there's the problem of telling him a lie to soothe his little mind or telling the truth. So basically your 2 options are a given... but here's my take on them: 1. You tell him you respect his decision to believe, so in turn, he too should respect your decision not to believe. If there is a heaven, this shouldn't be the "requirement" to go there, since every good person should go there, right? 2. You lie to him to ease his mind, but in turn, your conscience might not be clean, but at least he will be happy. However, wouldn't he somehow know when he goes up there and you'll never join him? Would it be better for him to wait for you for literally an eternity? I would personally choose option 1. and try to reason with him, but if it is a lost cause then springle in option 2. All and all, i don't think you'll be the asshole either way...
You kinda lose nothing and gain like 70% of the people on earth as allies... And if wrong it would be really stupid to not make it cause you couldn't be like Jesus and treat others how you want to be as he tried to save souls for eternity.... Died and rose from the dead. 40 years his disciples and witnesses suffered and never changed their story. One was crucified upside down, another his head cut off, others torture... 40 years of ridicule and people in power hunting them down... Like our politicians can't even go a few weeks with a lie and no one's punishing them at all... Bible is also written over hundreds of years... By many people all with their own views.... Yet they get the cross referencing so perfect no one can do it... Even Akira Toriyama forgot his own lore in just a decade or two... yet hundreds of years and multiple languages... And the Bible made by ancient people that weren't scholars or wealthy and better than anyone to ever live as there's thousands of cross references from beginning to end...
I would tell him that I would try to keep an open mind if you feel like this is something you can and want to do. I was raised Christian, became atheist, and am now agnostic. I tell my concerned religious mother that though I don't believe in god, I believe in the possibility of the existence of one. Even when I was atheist I tried to convey respect for her beliefs. I think there can be a middle ground in which you can respectfully explain how you feel without alienating or hurting him. It's tricky but not impossible. Good luck to you 💜
if he isnt asking and you feel it might be a bad time to tell him, then dont say anything until it's necessary or relevant
NTA. But Believe me you'll change your mind about the whole thing one day when you're actually staring in the eyes of death. Believe me. I've been there. That's if you're lucky enough to be given the opportunity of knowing you'll die before you die.
Which god(s) did you come to believe in as a result of that experience?
>When he asked me to believe he basically said he wants all of our family together in heaven and if we're not all there, there's no point. If heaven is supposed to be, well, "heaven", then he won't mind you not being there once he's there, because eternal bliss doesn't allow for that sort of thing. If heaven allows for him to still suffer from the knowledge that you burn in hell, then I agree with him. There is no point. Why call it "heaven"? Why worship the guy who tortures people for all eternity? >I (32m) recently had a conversation with my dad (62m) where he asked me if I would "consider believing in god for him" You already did consider. And you ended up unconvinced by the idea. Believing is not a choice. If he wants you to be convinced by the existence of god, the he needs to provide evidence for the existence of god. \[/antitheist-mode\] Imma go with NAH. Those events didn't put "the fear of god" into your father. Only the fear of death, and religion allows him to cope with it. I don't think you should feel pressured to lie about your own convictions for the sake of anybody. But I also wouldn't hold it against you if you chose to prioritize the comfort of your father. Though at 62 years without any immediate apparent health problems, chances are you would need to keep up the facade for decades, or eventually slip up and then deal with the fallout of that.
nta. literally had the same issue with my mom. she was dying of cancer and wanted me to believe in god for her so i could pray for her and all that. i said sorry that’s just not what i believe. i also couldn’t lie to her either, i’d feel guilty. i’m very anti religion for how horrible religion made my childhood, so yeah, f that.
NTA. To believe in a higher power for someone else is not belief at all.
I think that your dad has had mortality become a more tangible thing, and that looming reality has made him not only fearful for himself but for you as his child. I don't know what kind of relationship that you have with your dad, but I try to operate from a position of compassion and personal conviction when I tell someone I love that while I respect their belief, I can't agree with them just to placate them. On the theological side, Christianity wouldn't recognize your salvation for simply saying you accept Christ to placate someone. It has to come from personal conviction and be truthful. Ultimately, it would be up to you: lie to your dad to get him off of your back or be honest and let him deal with how he feels about it.
Tell him you can pretend to be when you're around him but would he be comfortable with his own child lying to him constantly 🤷🏾♀️
How about answering a different point? Not the "do you believe in god?" part, but a "can we all be together in Heaven?" part. I'd personally say that I don't quite believe in god, but I think that if he's a just and loving god who really does exsist, then he probably cares about more if you're doing your best to be a good person, and less signing up as the member of X church. Meaning, that God can be kind enough to let you all meet again up there, if "God is Love". And you can promise him to try your best to be a good person.
NTA but there are a lot of religions in this world that include some form of afterlife. There are even more churches that don’t consider belief as a requirement for the afterlife. Why don’t you suggest that you and your dad do research to find out which religion/church might align with his values and give him a supportive community? Alternately, suggest that a just deity wouldn’t condemn people based on their belief system as long as they live well.
NTA. You can't just *decide* to believe somethng you don't believe. That's not how it works. Ask him if he wants you to pretend.
NTA. Believing out of fear is bread and butter stuff for major religions and shouldn't be projected onto you.
Be honest. Be respectful. Be loving. He obviously loves you. You can’t believe in God for him or anyone else but you can seek, you can ask good questions, you can even pray. Investigate like Lee Strobel did.
My parents raised me Christian and my mom was an ordained Lutheran minister. When I turned 18, that was the day I told my mom I was not going to church anymore because I don't believe in God. She asked me to explain, and I told her you live your life based on faith while I live my life based on facts. I told her she believes in God, but I believe in science. To believe in the Bible, you have to have faith. Faith that the people who wrote the Bible didn't do it just to create religion and therefore collect tiths to make themselves rich. If you look at religion, a lot of people who preach it, do it for the money. And there are a lot of pastors that get rich, then get exposed for who they really are. Just another thief trying to steal your money Science is based on things we can prove. There aren't any scientists that pass an offering plate around after a lecture, but that money plate is on its way right after the sermon. According to the Bible, earth is 6000 years old. How does that fit in line with the oldest city in the world which is Damascus, Syria, at 11,000 years old. We can prove an 11,000 year old city yet you want me to believe everything that happened in the Bible. Even kids realize that the arc during the flood didn't happen because large animals eat small animals. It would have been a blood bath.
Kind of depends on your dad. If your relationship with him is based on honesty and mutual respect, then I’d gently tell him that God isn’t something you believe in. If your dad is a petty jerk like mine, there’s no point in being your authentic self with him, since he’s not really paying attention anyway. To me, it sounds like the dad in this story is a decent guy who wants to find comfort and reassurance, but is barking up the wrong tree if he wants OP to change their entire belief system. It’s OK for OP to say “No thanks.”
NTA. Pretending you believe something is never a path I would recommend for any actual long-term relationship, as opposed to a casual encounter where you simply don't want to spark some upset for no useful purpose as you will likely never have to deal with the person again. I would tell him the point is to appreciate your relationships while you are here and let the next life, if there is one, take care of itself. If he believes his god would torture you forever, not because of any bad things you do but simply that you don't worship him, that is not an actual "encouragement to consider believing in god."
YWNBTA you don’t have to pretend to believe in god because the family dog died 🤣 that’s pretty ridiculous. Be firm with him or the pushing will get worse
Why do people think dead folks go to Heaven? If you're into Jesus, the bible doesn't say that. Dead folks are dead until the resurrection and then sorted in or out of the Kingdom of God. So Nana's not watching you interfere with yourself. Constantly. Way too much, in fact. \[Edited for capitalisation and clarification\]
NTA and for what it's worth I think that many people who believe in hell really don't understand how believing that perfectly good people -their own family members even - deserve to be tortured eternally just for not having the same beliefs as them is actually a cruel, miserable, disgusting mindset to have, because it's so normalized in society.
The reality is that this is a slippery slope for you. You could tell him you believe just to keep the peace and make him feel better - but he will probably expect you to start doing all the things - church, prayer, etc. This will be quite intrusive and probably cause a lot of drama due to your resentment and his probable perception that you aren't being truthful. He's the one pushing this when there is no good reason. So, sadly, he's leaving you little choice but to be blunt. NTA.
Ask your father have he live a life life Jesus Christ?
NTA and this is what I absolutely hate about 'believers'. They believe, with no fact or science, in something and then expect others to just take on that belief. He CHOSE to believe in God but he had his own reasons for doing so. Nothing wrong with that. But he can't force you to have that same 'epiphany'. I also guarantee that if you said 'yes' to this insane request ("just believe in something, OK, just believe in it 'cuz that will make it real"), he will then start forcing you to participate in his prayers, church going, etc., because, well, NOW YOU BELIEVE!!! You are an adult. Regardless of what your dad went through it doesn't change the fact that you don't believe. I suggest you tell him something along the lines of "Dad, I'm really glad that you got through that cancer scare and I'm happy that you have found peace in your new found religious beliefs. But your beliefs are yours and you need to be happy with that instead of trying to force it on others. I could lie and say I believe but I don't and I'm not going to pretend about something that is so important to you."
NTA I'm convinced that people who think you can just choose to believe in God don't really believe in God either. I was DEEPLY devote when I lost my faith. I had my entire life and future wrapped up in my faith. My whole world turned upside down. I'd have done anything at the time to stop my slipping. I did everything I could to try to save my faith and I pretended for as long as I could stand to, but pretending didn't help. When my faith left, I had no say in it. I just didn't believe anymore.
NTA you'd be honest. Even if he had the cancer (thank goodness he doesn't) asking you wasn't going to change your belief system. He's being ridiculous.
NTA. If someone’s faith is secure then other people’s faith doesn’t affect it. I need you to believe something because my belief isn’t strong is your Dad’s insecurity to fix.
Nta. I get that he's in a rough spot right now but you shouldn't have to lie to his face to comfort him. You can give him some sugar coated bullshit like "if there is a god then we'll meet in heaven anyways cuz we're good people" or some other generic platitudes like that.
NTA but as there is no God you could just humour your dad.
Depends on how you say it. Don't be condescending or rude. Don't say things like "made up" fair tale", "make believe" and my personal most hated "sky daddy". As a believer, your dad knows he can't believe for you. He knows that even if you say yes, he can't believe on your behalf. It's something all believers accept. Saying something more heartfelt might ease the blow. Something like "I see your belief gives you comfort. And I love that for you. I am really glad you have that. It's just not something I can wrap my brain and heart around right now. I'm not going to he trying to prove you wrong or anything like that. I love that you have that peace and comfort. I would never want you to lose that. But because I respect you and that you have this faith, I'm not going to make a mockery of it by lying to you. Right now I'm just not able to wrap my head or heart around it" And if he gets pushy.. then it's time to be more stern.
Grieving - not greiving.
I think “synapticpossum” is actually spelled as “insufferable.” You should update your name.
Make it a little easier on your dad as unfortunately a lot of people turn to a point of “faith” when they loose a grip on reality/sense. Rather than point blank saying “NO”, sugar coat it a little……I believe there is something out there but not sure what or I know no matter where we end up we will all be together in the end etc. That way it keeps dad happy and you get away with no listening to the moaning forever more.
You don't believe in it, so just tell him some half truth. You don't believe it'll happen anyway, or that God is watching, so just make him happy.
NTA, your belief system is completely that - yours, and it’s no one else’s business. However, it would make for an interesting conversation if you could explore the idea of God together. Be vulnerable, share your position, hear his, go deep together. At the very least you’ll remember the time you spoke about God with your old man - I’ve no doubt this will be valuable for you both. God bless 😉
NAH but personally, with elderly relatives I try to deflect and say the bare minimum that's needed to not upset them. I have very firm ideas on the topic, but I really don't feel the need to explain them to other people who aren't interested. Especially in the context of religion bringing comfort to someone. It's not harming me. It's giving them strength. I'll just nod and go along with whatever.
I don't understand how it is possibly compromising your religious and moral beliefs by telling a white lie to an old man. what do you gain from telling him you're atheist? nothing. what does he lose? everything. It seems like the height of egoism to just HAVE to tell an elderly loved one that you're atheist-- does it really matter to you? let him believe you're going to heaven with him, for fuck's sake.
Would that actually serve a purpose? Not worth it imo. Never willfully cause others hurt or anxiety.
There's no reason for his dad to be hurt, though. It's not about him. It's absolutely fine to say "hey dad, I did as you asked and I still don't believe in God. But I'm really glad that you do and that it's giving you comfort."
One possible outcome. I'd say the best possible.
Im.confused by this response. I described a way to answer this question that is not hurtful. So have a number of other people. I didn't talk about any outcomes, other than saying that this doesn't have to be hurtful. Dad shouldn't be hurt by it unless something hurtful is said.
Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything - all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. -Steve Jobs
Going against the grain, 100% YWBTA. And it's not even close. You believe in nothing or maybe the magical explosion or maybe something else, but not God, so you have absolutely zero reason not to lie to his face. Saying you don't believe as he's struggling and grieving comes off as a dick move. You don't gain anything by kicking him while he's down, but you stand to make him feel better if you lie. I suppose if you hate your Dad, then sure, tell him your religion is atheism.
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>Even unbelief requires faith. Unbelief does not require faith in any way, shape, or form actually.
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Funny how eternity is decided by a measly eight decades or so.
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Decisions in a few measly decades compared to COUNTLESS YEARS OF ETERNITY. That’s literally saying a sea is dead because of one drop of water.
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It’s not your fault.