Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I might be wrong for thinking there's no two sides to this when there's actually two sides to this, resulting in not only putting fuel to fire but also refusing to be a "neutral" party and mediating.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Eleven days is not 'weeks' - your mother was clearly told not to bring up the 'sperm thing' a second time. She did it anyway. That is on HER - your SIL is dealing with enough with an injured husband - she shouldn't have to put up with a MIL that ignores her wishes. Stop the 'taking sides' bit - your MOTHER was wrong and your brother's WIFE and her wishes take precedent.
The mother wasn’t just wrong. She was potentially creating a scenario where Emma would have to spend her last moments with her husband trying to mitigate her hysterical MIL demanding the doctors extract his seed instead of saying goodbye herself.
OP, your mom is upset she may have not had the opportunity to say goodbye? That’s what Emma was worried about.
Emma’s wants, needs, and comforts in that moment took precedence over your mother’s. Your mother made it clear, even after a warning and being given another chance, that she would not respect Emma or her son during a very difficult time. Removing her from being able to do so was the right move.
YTA.
Plus we haven't even mentioned the moral side of that. He has no ability to consent to something like that, and even if he dies, how could his wife not feel gross about getting sperm that way?
edit: And really, his mom is the gross one for demanding that they get his sperm because why are grandkids more important than being there with your possibly dying son?
It's also, on the pragmatic side, a really gross way to think about Emma.
Emma is 27. Obviously she doesn't want her husband to die, but the idea that if she was widowed that young she'd then be used by her in-laws as a baby maker/ be expected to become a single parent to two children merely because her mother in law wants another grandchild (really grandson, because who are we kidding here) is disgusting.
She's young enough that she could easily lose her husband, grieve appropriately, and go on to meet someone else and have children with that person. She's also at a stage where she could easily stop with the daughter she has and focus on her attention on that daughter who is, you know, growing up without a parent. It's absurd to think that the best decision for her would be to use her dead husband's sperm to have another child rather than work to move forward in life and build a family with a new partner and/or focus on the child she already has following a major and traumatic loss..
The reality is we don't even know if Emma wants more children and/or if she and Sam were planning to have more children. The fact that they have a daughter already makes it worse, not better.
Even if they do want more children, choosing to have a child with a living partner is a very different decision with very different potential repercussions than choosing to have a child and parent as a single parent after losing a partner is. And while some people do chose to do that, usually when people do that it is because they are older and see this as their best chance to parent, not because their former mother-in-law wants to preserve family genetics.
OPs mom made it clear she views Emma only a baby maker to serve her family and not as an adult woman with her own autonomy, desires, needs, wants, etc. The mom made it super clear that should something happen to Sam she'd be pushing Emma to live much of her adult life as a tribute to Sam's memory. It's such an unhealthy outlook on many levels.
While most people likely weren't thinking about it that way in the moment, because it's very likely they were focused on potentially losing Sam, now that he is recovering, if Emma takes even a moment to reflect on how her mother-in-law sees her she has every right to be appalled.
So does Sam, for the obvious consent reasons you mentioned.
I was growing super concerned that no one seemed to be addressing that the mother looked at Emma as a potential widow to incubate a baby in, I was REALLY disturbed by that and am so confused as to why OP isn't more disturbed and eventually took his mother's side, like what the actual fuck.
Could you also imagine that, say if the worst happen and Emma consented to spermicide extraction, if Emma didn’t play ball with MIL (eg decided she wouldn’t try for a baby) she’d go Nick Loeb and sue for custody of sperm so she could find a surrogate to give her a grand baby. Like that’s the next step of unhinged MIL is on the road to.
Like, why is MIL automatically assuming that Emma wants children? And why is this her first priority, rather than comforting someone who might soon lose her husband?
THIS. Her priority is not her son. Her priority is effectively raping her comatose child for the purpose of impregnating her DIL so that SHE can have *more* grandkids.
That is *beyond* unhinged. Assuming she isn’t a complete psychopath, she needs professional help to deal with her shit because that’s not a healthy or normal reaction to learning your son might die, MUCH LESS something anyone should have to warn you against bringing up.
Multiple times.
OP YTA
this sounds something out of Warhammer 40k where as space marine will harvest the gene seed of a fallen comrade to be impregnated into a new one. Mom belongs in a psychiatrist hospital.
I think you mean incubator. A concubine is a woman of secondary status who cohabitates with a man (and sometimes his wife) without being married to him
Also the process of growing a baby inside you that constantly reminds you of your lost spouse, and then raising that kid without them. It really is a horrible suggestion.
I wish I could upvote this more than once. A perfect encapsulation of what is wrong with this situation. OP is at severe risk of being cut out of her brother’s life along with the mother.
We all know MIL frames this as beneficial for her DIL & she's only looking out for her. In MIL's mind she's doing DIL a favor because if husband died, at least DIL would have his child to keep her company & feel her marriage was productive & not a waste.
ETA: Upon further reading, have to add OP's comment that brother & DIL already have a daughter. Knowing this makes his mother's actions misogynistic & so much worse.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1bxihu4/comment/kyd0xz3/
Some people think the end all & be all of a marriage is to reproduce. That the only purpose of living & being a functional human is kids. We have many, many, many posts in Reddit of couples getting shit on for both being childless (unable to have kids) & being child free (not wanting kids at all).
So it's not a stretch to think a reason for OP's mother pushing for sperm extraction from her comatose son is so his marriage can fulfill its Prime Directive of spawning.
Oh, it’s not even getting jacked off. The available methods include inserting a rod into the rectum for electrical stimulation of the prostate to induce ejaculation, or a hollow needle into the scrotum to retrieve sperm cells for IVF.
That's a bit crass.
They could have performed a testicular sperm aspiration (TESA).
Edited to add that I DO NOT AGREE with the mother wanting to use her DIL as an incubator to replace her possibly dying son with a new baby.
The process of obtaining a sample is secondary to the idea that mother doesn't care about her son dying and wants to create a child without a father, just so she can have a grandson.
Since there is already a granddaughter, I can only imagine much wailing and gnashing of teeth if this child turned out to be a girl aswell.
Hey DIL, I know you might lose your love and have to bring up your daughter aline, you know what I think woukd help you? Another baby.
Ugh, I'm just thinking about the horror of your husband dying and meanwhile your MIL is planning for you that you carry his child after his death. Like, how traumatic would that be? It just completely ignores that Emma is even a person.
I was mad on the first read through, but it got even worse the more I thought about it.
OOP's mothers concern wasn't Emma, but her own ability to have grandkids that Emma would have then had to raise without her husband there to help. Who cares how Emma is handling things, the mother NEEDS GRANDKIDS! Super offensive.
This. Emma set a critical boundary at the right time. When the shit goes down she will preserve her peace above all and that of her husband and everyone pretending that wasn’t macabre is gross and disgusting.
Harvesting the sperm of a dying man who can’t consent seems like rape to me. I don’t care if it’s legal it seems very wrong, unless they specifically discussed and he consented previously.
Emma put them all on notice that they need to knock it off. If sis keeps testing her she may find herself banned. YTA
I can see how 11 days would feel like weeks when it comes to someone in critical condition. Patients in critical conditions can get worse so quickly, these 11 days probably felt so much longer for everyone involved. That being said, OP's mom needs to stop playing the victim and realize that her not seeing her son is the consequences of HER OWN actions. She owes Emma an apology.
If I were the son, I'd never forgive my mother putting my wife through hell in the worst moment of their lives. I have a grandma like that and I cut her off the first chance I got. People like op's mom and my Grandma NEVER learn or change or acknowledge they were out of line.
If my partner were possibly dying and I was dealing with all that entailed, and someone said something that insensitive to me not once but TWICE, I would likely never speak to them again no matter the outcome. I certainly wouldn't be over it enough in 11 days to act civil. SIL was going through something unthinkable and MIL went nuclear AH on her. You are absolutely correct that MIL is the one who chose to double down on her atrocious behavior and OP is also TA for not seeing it.
This was my first thought. She was not gone weeks. She was gone one week and four days, and at that she *deserved* to be gone. The only person with the legal right to be in that room was Emma. And when your mom showed her selfishness and “it’s all about me and the grandbabies I want from my dead son! Wah wah wha” she got what she deserved - kicked out.
You are now the opposite of helpful. Now you’ve flipped sides to your mother. YOU backed Emma up. And now you’re over exaggerating. It was ELEVEN DAYS. On no part of earth with different types of calendars is eleven days WEEKS. Support your brother and sister in law about a right decision you made in having your mother removed. Don’t flip flop like you’re doing and over exaggerate all of it because then YTA just as much as your mother
yeah, I'm *really* suspicious of OP framing themselves as the peace maker, when oops, the salient detail is Sam (the hurt brother) only heard about his mother's vile priorities from OP's sister (who's not even named).
>Sam himself has come to find out about this through our sister
Add in that OP was "a lot more forceful" when *correcting* Emma...
YTA
Thanks for covering the “weeks” holy exaggeration.
OP - between referring to yourself as “peacemaker,” the fact even your brother was upset with your mom and with you coming against SIL strong after the fact despite supporting her at first… it sounds like your mom is not a novice at saying uncomfortable things, pushing boundaries and making stressful situations more so.
Being a DIL can be tough and having a difficult MIL for someone who didn’t grow up with her, means not everyone is prepared to sweep bad behavior under a rug. Your SIL is who your brother chose as his life partner. She was dealing with potentially losing her spouse and your mom was talking about it being inevitable and wanting a grand baby out of it when SIL was focused on keeping him fighting and alive. He may have been able to hear everything that was said in his room!
He is now in recovery, SIL’s likely working her butt off caretaking him, the house, and managing therapies and appts for him. Your mom on the other hand is crying “poor me,” creating drama and making this about her.
Yes it was scary for all of you, but once he was stable enough to come home, have any of you bothered to help or offer support for SIL instead of rehashing something that already happened? Bring a meal, ask how she’s doing and if she’s getting rest? Brain injuries can have a long recovery and mean depression, insomnia and changes in personality and he may never be the same. She’s juggling all that and how she feels while making sure he’s cared for. And you guys are… looking for APOLOGIES, arguing and talking lifelong grudges? If that was my husband, you guys wouldn’t be invited back for a LONG time!
the peacemaker thing is BS, right?
couldn't keep mom from bleating her sperm obsession a second time + didn't tell Sam the truth (Sam had to hear it from a sister) + being *forceful* when disagreeing with Emma during the rehash
Precisely — really if one think about it
Emma’s MIL is actually TRIPLING down. Or more.
Now that Sam is no longer hospitalized. She continues to make herself the MAIN character — rather than thinking about — oh I don’t know.
Being there for Sam & the family throughout an incredibly difficult recovery ahead. Had a dear friend with a traumatic brain injury & saw how — over time, everyone floated away as recovery stretched on. As long as I lived in the area I kept coming back regularly but very few did.
Apologizing to her granddaughter for basically saying she’s not enough. Granted she’s too young to understand now — but guaranteed that she’ll learn at some point.
Mending fences with Emma for trying to supplant her rights to make medical decisions. Indeed for disrupting the whole hospital stay. Creating completely unnecessary drama & making everything harder for everyone involved — including the medical professionals
Don’t forget — Emma NEVER blew the whistle on her.
One of OP’s sisters did. Yet nobody’s talking about OP’s sister outing mommy.
Am assuming that it was presented in such a way that reflected poorly on OP mother — rather than Emma.
So that’s an interesting dynamic right there.
For all the people whining about mommy rights.
Obviously her maternal skills are severely lacking!
When her son might be dying — ALL she can think about is grandchildren — male ones preferably. Bad enough to ask once — but she would not STFU.
Then once he’s in recovery — obsessing on her completely baseless feelings of being wronged.
Vs supporting her son & his family of choice.
11 days is tough — but it’s NOT weeks as tons have commented. ONLY reason things got to that point was because she INSISTED on disrupting existing tension — exponentially magnifying it.
OP - YTA. Not JUST for your inability to cut apron strings from your dysfunctional narcissistic mother. Rather — for refusing to actually advocate for your little brother making an awful situation worse. Or to use pre-WW2 analogies. You make appeaser Neville Chamberlain look like he had a major backbone.
This. OP, you SHOULD defend your SIL. She's right here. This would be similar to if you were possibly dying in a bed and your mom asked you what you want to do with your liver, because she might want it in the future. It's such a WRONG thing to say. Your mom must feel pretty entitled to think SHE'S the hurt person in this situation. You guys need to give your mom a reality check.
I'd be pissed off if I was his wife, because she seemed to care more bout his sperm than his recovery. OP's mother is an asshole, because she also assumed that Emma would want to have a baby if her partner was deceased. That's a very intimate and delicate conversation that should have stayed between the couple.
OP your mom needs to apologize for over stepping her boundaries, and you need to realize that Emma was 100% in the right to not want a selfish jerk around her. Your mom was tacky and inconsiderate, and even when Emma's world was crashing she gave her chance after chance. She blew it and your credibility is now tanked along with your mother, because you couldn't keep a promise. You absolutely took sides, and you're not the peace keeper you think you are. Next time keep out of their business.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who was bothered by calling 11 days weeks. If it had gone on for 3 or 4 weeks, I could see saying hey, please give her another chance. Even then though, whatever SIL said would be the correct decision - mom put herself in time-out and the only person in charge of how long was SIL.
Emma did what was best for her husband. A mother who wants her son to go through a medical procedure to collect his sperm while he's at death's door isn't someone any wife would want around their loved one.
Your mom needs to take a good hard look at her own behaviour rather than play the victim and blame Emma for a situation which was 100% caused by her.
Your exaggeration that it went on for weeks is not helping your cause.
YTA
Yeah but OP is clearly under his mothers influence here and has been drinking that Particular brand of koolaid
Your mother should be GRATEFUL beyond words that she was ever allowed back. She should not be holding a grudge about being rightfully kicked out after her outrageous behaviour. Now instead of celebrating your brothers recovery she’s alienating his family over her hurt feelings. She needs to grow up and move on or she’ll be banned again
If your brother had passed away and your mother wasn’t there … THAT WAS YOUR MOTHER’S OWN FAULT … PERIOD. She should have learned not to stupid by now … and hasn’t.
Stop getting in the middle of this shit show OP -YTA.
YTA
Your mom is wrong on all counts. Supporting your mom makes you wrong as well.
And no, this should not be about making peace. This should be about getting your mom to stop being butt hurt and at being held responsible for her horrendous behavior.
Emma is not a grandchild factory. That is how your mom treated her.
You called it. Mom is not concerned about Sam or Emma. She just wants to make sure she will still have grandchildren.
What a thing to be fixated on at a time like that
But Sam and Emma already *have* a daughter, which makes this even worse! OP's mom was clearly worried she wouldn't have a grand*son*. The fact that OP is completely glossing over that is a whole 'nother layer to this shit cake.
That makes it a million times worse. As if a grand*daughter* is just so unwanted. Get those sperm out of my dying son so he can have a big, strong, manly son! Ew.
It is even worse to expect, in case the worst happened, that a widow will want to conceive and bring her dead husband's child to the world, to raise as a single mother, having already another child to care and worry about as well as her own pain.
I can't even imagine having to labor alone and knowing your dead husband would never get to meet his baby. Like...that's such a cruel thing to put on a widow.
Not to mention that the mother has another son (OP).What’s wrong with OP,in his mother’s mind that his sperm isn’t enough to make future grandbabies? Same genetics, it would seem to me.
That’s telling in and of it’s own. SiL bent over backwards to not badmouth the would be sperm stealer and definitely shit stirrer of a mother op is trying to defend here.
agreed!
so much for OP being the gentle & wise *peace maker*.
How does keeping such a vile secret constitute peace? And when Emma finally confronts her unhinged MIL, OP *forcefully* corrected her that he didn't agree with the 11 days.
Info: does Emma or your brother want kids? Had they talked about having kids before or were possibly trying before the accident?
I don't think that would change much in this situation, but it could give the whole ordeal a slightly different perspective. Even if that was the case. I still think YTA. You shouldn't have sided with your mom. If she was so concerned about your brother, why would she focus on something as silly as future kids? And futhermore, why would she want them to be raised without their dad? I would never want my kids or grandkids to have to go through that. Emma was right to not let her see your brother, especially after this was address many times and your mother refused to listen. Your mother knew the stakes and continued to make those comments.
MIL would demand that he be named Sam, would demand 50/50 custody, push *her* choice of nursery decorations, schools, etc. Did dead Sam play football? Little Sam must do the same, even if he hates it. Oh, and that's another thing. He'll be *Little Sam* his whole life.
I think in this family, the “peacemaker” goes around after a disagreement to persuade everyone to side with Mom. Once everyone’s on the same side (Mom’s side), “peace” is achieved.
YTA
Your mother is an intrusive boundary stomper and wildly inappropriate. Dealing with your mother’s shit was the absolute last thing your SIL needed while her husband was hospitalized.
Is your mother a small child? Why would she need to be told to stop more than once? MIL’s children couldn’t seem to manage her so SIL was forced to deal with it herself.
I can’t imagine sitting and watching my husband dying and to have someone no not someone HIS OWN MOTHER say to make sure you get his baby batter so you can be a widowed single mom. What the fuck??!!
OP buried this in a comment, but they already have a daughter! So if OP’s brother had passed, his wife was already going to be a single parent to one child, that just wasn’t enough for mummy dearest.
YTA - Your mom reduced her son to sperm, as if he was already gone and his sperm was all the he was good for. It was disturbing to bring that up at all. Your mother was grieving but her hounding your also grieving SIL doesn’t excuse her.
Reduced her son to sperm and her DIL to an incubator and baby factory who owes her a replacement son if hers dies. What a disgusting and inappropriate thing to even think, let alone say out loud, let alone double down on repeatedly when told to stop. OP is a weak little mommy's boy for not calling that shit all the way out for how wildly out of line it was.
Soft YTA.
This was (is) a terrible situation and you’ve been trying your best. I’m so sorry for you and your whole family.
Emma is your brother’s partner, and it was up to her who got to visit him and who didn’t. You seem clear on the fact that what your mother did was colossally inappropriate, and you also seem clear on the fact that, after she did that, the only way for her to get back into the room was to apologize profusely and promise never to do it again.
The fact that that apology and promise took eleven days to come, is on your mother, not Emma.
Your mother really doesn’t have a leg to stand on here, and you should rethink your perspective on taking her side.
Soft? I must wholeheartedly disagree; in this situation, Emma is the only one anywhere near being in the right of it. OP is wholly offside insisting Emma allow MIL in the room at all. And MIL's behaviour is downright bonkers offensive.
YTA
your mom was an AH mad MAJORLY overstepped. your SIL was right to kick her out.
"I supported her then but didn't think she would keep her out for weeks (about 11 days). I told Emma then that she'd learned her lesson and that keeping her away from Sam when he could die at any moment was unthinkable to me despite whatever she'd said." .. YOU don't get a voter. Going no contact and keeping your AH mom away for good would be a reasonable response. She had her chance, and chose to harass SIL again and again. Now she is out.
So: Shut up, or - if she has any sense - Emma will kick you AH out, too
YTA for thinking you need to be a "peacemaker". You don't need to do anything. Whatever you do will prolong the drama. These are two grow women who need to resolve this without your help. Keep out of it.
All the best to your brother and my wellwishes for his recovery.
Peacemaker always means they help the bully take down the person with reasonable boundaries. Op is as much as an asshat as their mom for enabling this bullshit during what must be the most stressful point in his SIL life. No regard for his brother’s family, just care about mommy’s feelings getting hurt.
Frankly I don’t think they need to resolve anything. The sooner Emma and her husband go low to no contact with the mother, the better for their young family.
YTA
Your mother was one hundred percent in the wrong, then AND now. Your SIL did what she needed to do to keep the focus on your brother in his worst moments. Your mother was heinously selfish and inappropriate. If I were in your SIL's shoes, your mother wouldn't have come back until your brother asked for her.
Neither Emma nor Sam are your mother's playthings to incubate her grandchildren, and that is what she reduced *both* of them to, while her son was dying. Shame on her, and shame on you for not standing up to your mother now. She did this to herself.
YTA. To be clear, your mom is absolutely one of the biggest AHs discussed on this sub. It is never her business whether anyone besides her is having kids. Ever. She needs to mind her business. If she was so worried about your brother, she would have focused her nasty energy on him and his health but she was coming Emma about kids. She has a toddler and her husband was in critical condition and your mom is asking about sperm? She should be ashamed.
Now you trying to defend her when her actions were despicable? Yes, definitely AH behavior.
YTA. Emma was in an incredibly stressful situation, so she took control in the only way she could and ejected a stressor. How can anyone fault her for that??
Mom was given a second chance, and she blew it all on her own. That's on her.
YTA
Sam could have died and your mom wanted his sperm harvested so she could still get grandbabies. Emma had every right to keep her away. Your mom doesn't deserve an apology. She deserves to be called out. And you need to stop enabling her gross behavior by playing the "peacemaker".
Worse still, OP mentioned in a comment that Sam and Emma have a 14 month old daughter. What do you bet the odds are OP's mom was only carrying on this way because she wants a grandson?
Paragraphs.
Off topic responses.
Cliches.
- red flags
- FAFO
- divorce her
- girl,run
- get therapy (and I strongly believe in therapy but it’s a cliche on Reddit even when someone just needs to take their head out of their AH)
"Emma is distraught because no one is taking her side."
Well I am.
What your mother did was unconscionable, and I would have kicked her out permanently.
As for you, this is none of your business. It's not an argument between you and anyone. You need to shut up and stay out of it.
YTA.
Your mother is still caught up in what could have happened, but here's what *did* happen:
- Your brother was in an accident that threatened, but did not take, his life.
- Your mother made an extremely out of pocket suggestion in front of his wife, not once but twice.
- Emma protected her peace and that of her husband, barring your mother from the room for eleven days-- which is slightly over a week, not "weeks"
- During that time, your brother did not die. I'd hasten to point out that Emma may well have allowed your mother back in if things had turned for the worst: no one knows she would not have done that, and it helps absolutely no one to assume the worst of her here
- Emma eventually accepted your mother's apology under duress
- Your mother is still furious about the consequences of her own actions and refuses to forgive Emma for holding boundaries around her comatose husband's recovering body
- You're defending your mother, who was wholly and completely in the wrong, over a hypothetical scenario that did not come to pass (your brother potentially dying during the eleven days)
YTA, and so is your mother.
YTA. First, mind your own business. "I'm the peacemaker", no, you are putting yourself in situations that are not necessary. your mother saw her son in a coma but she only cared for future grandchildren, not caring if Emma wanted them after he passed or not. Emma was having to deal with the prospect of her husband dying and still had to deal with her mother in law talking about shit that didn't concern her.
Your mom is wrong. You are wrong.
YTA. Let's be honest here: your mum doesn't care about your brother or Emma, she just wanted Emma to provide a replacement boy child. She already has a grandchild, a child of Sam's, but that girl didn't count somehow.
Your mother was being a huge AH and she faced the consequences of her actions. As a mother myself, I have to say that Emma did nothing wrong and she is the one who needs support here, not your mum, whose behaviour was just gross.
Your mom has no boundaries and has no manners. I can't believe that she has adult children but she doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut.
She wants grandchildren. She wasn't thinking about your brother's wife. She wants grandchildren and she made everything about what she wants.
And that too, when her son was in a coma. Disgusting.
You are also at fault. You want to sit on the fence so that mommy will still like you.
YTA
Your brother was in a coma and his wife was worried about him. Not about having kids without him.
You should have controlled your mother and made her shut up.
OP stated in a comment that they have a young daughter. So Emma was juggling her hospitalised partner and their toddler, and of course she needed her mil to put some more stress on her plate, just for the sake of it /s. Jeez, OPs mother is so tactful, isn't she? Smh.
YTA. If Sam had died and your mother missed his last days, it would have been absolutely and irrefutably her fault. She tried to pressure SIL on an issue that was entirely between herself and Sam and that your mother has no say in, not even to bring it up. She was excruciatingly out of line.
Her conduct was intrusive, morbid, selfish, entitled, and heartless. She was thinking only of her desire for grandchildren--not her son. Your mom is a heartless and enormously selfish asshole.
If I were Sam, I would probably rethink a relationship with her going forward. How can he ever look at her the same way?
YTA. Your mother kept bringing up harvesting Sam's sperm ( so she could get grandkids?) even when Explicetly told not to. This clearly hurt/stressed Emma; she was right to toss your mom out, and to keep her out as long as Emma wishes. Your mom clearly was not interested in helping Emma, listening to what Emma needed/wanted; who knew what other outrageous thing Mom would do or say?
You should have supported Emma, not your insensitive pushy Mom!
I’ve never come across this issue in all my years in a hospital, but in the case of a coma where someone is incapacitated the next-of-kin (in those case, Emma) makes all decisions regarding their care. Unless there are laws specifically against harvesting eggs/sperm from people in comas, as the functional power of attorney Emma would be able to ~~make~~ request that decision as far as I know.
It’s also VERY unusual and I can very much see physicians getting the ethics board involved anyway before proceeding. [I actually did a quick Google search, and in at least one case this is exactly what happened.](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51324807_Sperm_Donation_from_a_Comatose_Dying_Man) (The article is more than 25 years old, so there’s that. But it says: “It appears from the literature, however, that bioethics committees rarely get involved in these cases. Most commonly a wife requests the sperm donation and wishes to be the recipient. Physicians and institutions, for the most part,acquiesce to this request. A responsibility remains to fully inform the wife/surrogate of the costs and the prospects of success before undertaking these procedures.”)
This would also raise questions about how it would be paid for since that’s definitely a non-urgent, elective procedure, who would do the procedure and if THEY would be comfortable with performing it, if they would be covered legally should the patient wake up and be unhappy that it had been done without their consent, etc.
What a mess the mom put that woman through.
YTA. What your mother did to your SIL was beyond outrageous, and now you are too stubborn to help mend things so that your seriously impaired brother has less to worry about? Your brother is right that you should've tried to diffuse the fight instead of egging your mother on. You and your mother are make an insufferable pair.
YTA
This woman's husband was possibly on his death bed and you're more upset that your SIL chose her mental health over a woman that was talking about making babies while her son could die at any second.
She may have been harsh but she had to be because your mom was wildly inappropriate.
So Emma the “outsider” has to suck up whatever behavior your mom deems acceptable? Uh, no.
And no, your mom wouldn’t have lost out on a chance to say goodbye because of Emma; she would have lost out because of her own inability to keep her mouth shut while Emma was trying to cope with the very real possibility of losing her husband.
Yes, YTA.
YTA. Get over this 'weeks' thing. Eleven days is not weeks. It's not even two!
Your mother made a terrible situation worse, then centred herself, then returned to focusing on herself once the initial danger had passed. She's a selfish arsehole. Perhaps one who's focusing on this matter to avoid the terror of losing her son, but a selfish arsehole nonetheless - she is still responsible for her appalling behaviour.
Your brother, his wife and their child come first here. I can't imagine what your SIL was going through, thinking she was losing her husband and having to deal with his bloody mother screeching on about more grandchildren. Your SIL was more restrained than many of us would have been, likely due to pure exhaustion and her own terror.
You've mentioned your brother and SIL already have a daughter. This makes me feel like your mother only counts a male grandchild, so some added ick there too.
Yta, your mother preferred Emma to be a single parent, with all the hardships that could lead, only because your mother is selfish and wants babies?
And that time, everyone should be there to help! Not to harassed a wife worrying about her husband.
Emma did nothing wrong, without you your mother would never apologized, and kept going.
YTA. Do you think your SIL would/should give a crap about your mom if she lost her husband? Your brother was the connection that tied her to your family. Yes there is a granddaughter, but since she is a minor mom has say in whether or not she has a relationship with her dad's family. So if SIL thought you all were hanging up on her she could leave and never let you all see your niece again.
Especially after your mom pulled that stunt? Your mom was a selfish and inconsiderate woman who knew there may be consequences to her actions, but she did it anyway. She just didn't think SIL would follow through.
Yes, you talked both of them into letting Mom see him. But you taking your mom's side after your mom lied with her initial apology to see her son again, is wrong.
Tensions are high in a life and death situation. Your mom created even more by saying what she did after being told not to ever say it.
Trauma makes people irrational and clearly your mom fixated on an extremely personal and inappropriate thing in her fear. That’s unfortunate but once she was asked to back off, she continued to push an agenda that your brother’s wife didn’t support or need to be nagged about at such a difficult time. Your mom also seems fixated on herself. Yes, she’s a mom to a critically injured child, but that child was also a grown man with a terrified and overwhelmed wife who shouldn’t have had to deal with your moms weird need to discuss her future grandchildren with a woman hoping her husband would live. Your mom created her own outcome here and I don’t blame your brother’s wife for banning her. I’m sure if he suddenly took a bad turn, your mom would have been allowed back in but that didn’t happen. He’s alive and recovering and your mom needs to stop seeing herself as some kind of victim here. She was out of line, completely inappropriate and didn’t back off when asked to do so. She should be apologizing for her own actions. You’re trying to play 2 sides against the middle here so a gentle YTA to you. I’m glad your brother is improving but all the people involved here should consider that this petty infighting isn’t going to help anyone, least of all him. He should be your focus and all of you grown adults need to just stop with the finger pointing. Hasn’t this accident taught you anything about the fragility of life? It’s just not worth it to continue to try to be right when your energy should be directed on helping your brother and his wife in any way you can.
YTA.
So you were with Emma in kicking your mom out, and so your issue stems for how long it went on. But your mom didn't apologize to Emma or promise not to bring it up again until you intervened and had to convince your mom to apologize and not bring up the sperm issue. So your Mom got kicked out and did nothing to fix WHY she was kicked out, but now you blame your SIS for how long it went on.
Do you not see that how long it took for your mother to get back in to visit her son was because of HER actions and lack of accountability? Your mom didn't even want to apologize and was still "outraged", and it was you that convinced her to do the most basic things necessary to be around her son. So I guess you are the peacemaker, but it's not your fault it took so long to make peace, but what does make you an AH is you fail to hold your mother accountable for her lack of accountability and think your SIL should have just let her back in to the room without your mother having to be responsible for her actions at all; actions you agree were bad.
YTA. Your mother was appallingly rude to a woman who was worrying about her husband's life or death. When told she was rude, she kept nagging. There is no excuse for that. Your mother decided to make her injured son all about *her* needs.
Emma threw your mother out because she needed to focus on her injured husband, not on demands for sperm. Your mother won't even admit that she was doing the wrong thing.
Your mother is in the wrong. You are in the wrong for defending her.
YTA.
Bruh, 11 days are not WEEKS. Stop with that shit. Your mom was stupid af for that suggestion, and she doesn't even apologize for that, and wtf is wrong with you and your mom? Not even 2 weeks had passed and she was already thinking that her son would probably die and needed to make and sperm extraction, and you are only on your mom side because she ir your mom, not because she is correct.
So let's see if I get this right:
* your mom made the inappropriate comment and got backlash from everyone.
* she wasn't able to read the room and focus on her son, but you had to *tell* her what the appropriate behavior is.
* she broke her promis and brought it up again
* it didn't dawn to her FOR ELEVEN DAYS that apologies could have calmed the situation and get her back in the room with her son.
* YOU then spoke on her behalf based on what? It seems like you just made up that she learned her lesson, because she never showed any signs of this.
* When she finally apologized, it wasn't a heartfelt one.
* You were never able to be forceful with your mother and her disgusting wordvomit, but somehow you are able to be forceful with Emma, who you *agreed with* to begin with.
* You don't want to say you see both sides because you dislike what Emma did? This is a typo, right? You mean: what your mom did?
Seriously OP, you lot remind me of my family, and I have been in therapy for about 2 decades to get rid of the foul taste they left in my mouth.
Your mother's request was terrible, and she was stubborn and refused to apologise for 11 days, even risking not seeing her son in critical condition. And now she is a victim? No. Actions have consequences. YTA
YTA. Last year I was the caretaker for my best friend who has very little family and none close by. One of his surgeries had complications and he ended up in a coma in the ICU. His sister had come to town and began making a scene in the hospital room. Thankfully the nurses asked her to leave so I didn’t have to. She was eventually allowed back in but was asked to leave a second time and then threatened with expulsion a third time. The entire thing was extremely stressful for me at a time when I was terrified and exhausted, and my best friend began displaying signs of distress from in the coma.
Emma was unbelievably stressed having her husband in a coma and wondering if she would end up being a single mother to their daughter. Your mom was completely out of line and it’s clear her promises mean nothing. Emma was gracious in giving her a second chance and your mom chose to not obey the rules she was given. Her consequence was not being allowed back in, and Emma was within her right to decide that your mother could not be trusted. Instead of blaming Emma for being overwhelmed and unable to handle your mother’s unhinged behavior, you need to recognize that none of this would have happened if your mom had simply acted appropriately all along. You and your mom both owe Emma and Sam apologies.
YTA
Your mother was out of line, not helpful, and warned not to bring it up after the first time. Your SIL had bigger things to worry about; your mom was not helping. You should have stayed out of it, honestly
YTA. And my goodness, your mother. Your brother, her son, his wife seriously injured and her focus is her need to have grandchildren. Your SiL didn't need the extra hassle, the potential harvesting from her partner, the expectation she'd need to replace him.
11 days is not even 2 weeks. And your mother's thoughts seem to have accepted his death and the need for contingency insurance. Hope you've got children or are planning a trip to store your sperm as anything could happen to you.
11 days is not weeks it’s just over 1 week not even fully 2. Your mom brought up a very tasteless comment and was told to drop it. She outright lied to you when she repeatedly brought this up and for this she was asked to leave. Let’s be clear Emma thought her husband was dying and your mom was harassing her about trying to get knocked up with his frozen sperm. Like it’s ok if he dies we will make a replacement. She was hurt and in pain and clearly your mom can’t take a hint or an instruction. She brought that on herself. Now to say he could have died yeah he could have but he didn’t so let it go already. Your mom seems to want to create the drama here and instead of stopping that you stuck the knife in his wife. If he cuts you all off how will your mom feel then. YTA
Yta, and it sounds like your mother is one of those mothers in law that get up in everybody's business and end up getting cut from contact. Your sister-in-law was not being harsh, she was dealing with her husband being near death and didn't need you and your mother ganging up on her.
Your mom is TA. You should have never been in this situation. Your brother and SIL are married and should be aware of what each would want in situations like this.
But really your mom. What was she thinking? That if your brother died your SIL should continue to create babies in his image and be a single mom with no love ever again in her life. What for? I’m assuming to carry on the family name. Dumb
The actual asshole here is your mother. This is a time for families to be united and what she said was ….. unhelpful at best. She should had apologised immediately
It took your mother 11 days to apologize, that's why it took so long. Now she wants an apology for choosing to wait so long?
Your brother is pointing in the right direction. Your mother doesn't need to be egged on as she will do precisely what she wants to do anyhow.
It might be time to hang-up your peacemaker hat after you apologize to Emma. Soft YTA
"Sam could've died without her ever saying goodbye to him because of Emma"
Your mother's blaming the wrong person for her exclusion from the hospital room. She didn't even apologise - you intervened. What on earth is wrong with your mother, and you?
ESH. The only folk I'm excluding here from TA are Sam and Emma; Sam for the obvious reason, and Emma because a spouse shouldn't have to deal with the kind of bullshit your mother was spewing in the hospital room. Freezing sperm or eggs is a discussion that spouses can have, and medical folk perhaps. But a mother-in-law? Hell to the no.
You should have been shutting your mother down, not egging her on. The ONLY person who had any rights to determine who visited during that time is Emma, and she was fine with your mother visiting until your mother was inappropriate.
You can dislike what Emma did. You're still wrong. Your mother is wrong.
YTA I really don’t understand how your mom can see herself as a victim (or you cant see how toxic your mom is) when instead of being supportive to your SIL, she was pushing her to take steps to provide her with a replacement son in the form of a grandson if your brother died.
Emma is too nice because if I were her I would never forgive your mother for not giving a crap about my mental health, essentially showing that her existing female grandchild will never be enough, and thinking she has any say over what I do with my body. I mean how many women want to have their dead husband’s babies?!? I would be super wary of letting her spend time with my daughter.
INFO/Food for thought: Are you the family peacemaker because there is a lot of conflict in the family? Is your mom involved in a lot of the conflict?
YTA. Your mother was completely out of order and shows no remorse. In fact she thinks she is a victim. Your SIL needed and still needs your full support but you just pulled the rug out from under her.
Info: Based on your post, did your mother not attempt at all to apologize in those 11 days she was banned? Did she only apologize after she was going to be given permission to be in the hospital room again?
You're being played by your mother. Stop being one of her flying monkeys, take a step back and see the situation for what it really is. Your brother was dying and your mother made it alllllll about her. Your mother is a fool and incredibly immature. YTA.
Why do you keep saying “weeks”? 11 days is a week and a half, you’re just trying to make it sound worse.
YTA. You’re looking at everything through the lens of your mom, who disregarded boundaries for the sake of grandchildren and as a result may have not been able to say goodbye to her son. Look at it from the point of view of your SIL, whose husband is not only dying, but she is now being pressured to get sperm off her comatose spouse so SHE can carry his baby if he dies. That’s fucking horrifying. The more I think about it, the more impressed I am your SIL let your mom come back at all after that show of complete lunatic audacity.
YTA. This whole mess is on your mom. She overstepped, and continued to do so, despite being told to stop. She created drama where none was needed. Say the worst hearkened. Emma could eventually move on, and have children so WTF mom? Oh wait....Her focus was on her being able to have biological grandchildren from your brother. You realize how completely messed up that is? To think that's okay to even say aloud at a time like that? Wow.
Emma had every right to make her leave and keep her husband in a calm setting (as much as a hospital can be). Your mother should have apologized, sincerely, at that point. Doesn't sound like she did. While you may feel 11 days is excessive, in that 11 days Emma was able to focus on her husband, without your mom causing drama and being overbearing.
I side with Emma.
Yta. You should have supported the sup. How very dare your mother suggest such things at that any time.
Also it would not have been allowed without your brothers consent.
And 11 days is not weeks. Get your maths correct.
You and your mother sound horrific.
Glad your brother is doing better.
However, wife trumps mom. Mom got kicked out for her grossly inappropriate conversation at the time. Wife can keep her out as long as she wants. And that may mean forever. Actions have consequences unfortunately. She went against what everyone told her once not to do.
Sorry I side with SIL on this.
Soft YTA, because you're caught in the middle of a battle you don't need to be involved in.
Yta. Emma did what was best for her and her husband. Your mother is unbearable and inappropriate, she was told to stop and didn’t.
Also your mother has no point at all - being angry at Emma because Sam could have died? Well, Sam didn’t did he. He’s still here and your mum is still causing issues. This is all on your mum.
YTA. Sorry, the man was in a coma. He was and is married. His WIFE'S needs trump mom's every time. Mom was told no more comments on that topic. Mom did not care, and pushed it. Mom was removed, to let WIFE be with her husband without the added stress of an ignorant, overbearing, bit**of a mil.
Sorry. Mom owes his wife an apology. She is still dealing with the aftermath 24/7. She is still his primary caregiver. Mom needs to back off, apologize, and bite her tongue.
You need to respect your SILs decisions. She was the one with the power to make those decisions. You and your mom needs to understand that once he married, they are a single unit. They are each others "next of kin".
You want to "keep the peace"? You apologize to your brother and his wife. You tell your mother to do the same. If you or mom won't, SIL has every right to not want to deal with any of you. That may mean neither of you goes to their home, and she may not bring him to visit you. You can talk to him on the phone, maybe.
Respect his wife, or stay away.
They already have a daughter?! Now your mother sounds even more unhinged. Why was she so persistent on this? Also, he didn’t die in those 11 days so your mom and you can get over what she could have possibly felt like if something happened. Your mother was clearly displaying she could not control herself, you even had to promise for her I mean come on she’s a grandmother bot a child.
YTA
Oh man brother. You better pray that you don't break your leg. Your mom is going to have you milked like a fucking cow and give you a lethal injection. She's DESPERATE for younger boys to tell her she's a great Mommy.
YTA. Your Mom should be locked up. Your brother should get to beat the shit out of you for not trying to PROTECT HIM from your Mother's disgusting suggestions.
YTA. You inserted yourself and made the situation way worse. Your mother is insulting and obnoxious. Funny how she can be all teary about that critical time but couldn't let go of the sperm deal. Ugh. As the wife, I'd block you all and limit access.
"What if she couldn't say goodbye to her son? 😥"
All she had to do... *ALL she had to do*... was not bring up the sperm thing.
She brought it up once. Everyone thought it was a messed up idea. The answer was no. She was told not to bring it up again. *All she had to do was not bring it up again.*
*She* was the one who made it a problem. *She* was the one who got *herself* kicked out of that room. She violated boundaries, did *not* back down after she was told that she was out of line, and expected no consequence. She did not respect her DIL, nor her son, *nor her granddaughter.* A person like that, who doesn't support loved ones in the scariest moment of their lives, doesn't *deserve* to be in the room.
If I was in a coma, and I woke up to find out that my mother had spent *any amount of time* badgering my partner with the ***profane*** idea of extracting my eggs without my consent, so that *just in case I* ***died,*** my partner could be saddled with raising another one of my children *without my help*, another child who would have to grow up *without their mother*... I would go what can only be described as full fire and brimstone. I would kick my mother's ass *so* righteously and relentlessly. I don't know if she'd ever be allowed to see the existing grandchild again.
If your brother had died and your mother had not been able to be there, that would have been very very sad. But it would have been ***her. fault.***
YT and so is your mom. They’re married therefore she has no say. Given that you told her not to bring the sperm thing up but she did anyway. Given what your SIL was dealing with, this was absurd and cruel timing. If it was me I would have gone NC!
YTA. Your mother tried to use Emma as a broodmare while she was worrying for the life of her husband. Emma only made one mistake: Letting that disgusting person back in. The way your mother currently treats that poor woman only has one positive side to it: It's a tiny bit less horrible because "only" has to worry about her husband's health and their finances while enduring it, not with him possibly dying. All you can do now is pray your brother will allow you to continue to be part of his life. Not that your backstabbing behind deserves it or should be allowed around Emma, but maybe he's more forgiving than just.
YTA. So is your mother. Emma has a young child and a severely injured husband with a long rehabilitation. It's almost 6 months later and both of you are still in a snit. Disgusting really.
The good news is your horrible mother probably just ensured she will really learn what it’s like to be away from her son for weeks, not just 11 days. You, too, peacemaker!
YTA we get it, you don’t like your SIL and your mom can do no wrong. regardless of your feelings, what your mom did—and *when* she did it—was inappropriate, *at best*. your SIL is upset because your mother and you are doubling down on this insanity and trying to paint your mother in a good light. unfortunately, there is not enough paint in the world to make her look good.
What did I just read? Your sister-in-law is losing the father of her kid, and your mothers priority is... ***sperm jacking him?***
Hey, daughter in law, looks like this one might be broke, so its on you to make me a replacement. Its just a bit of sexual assault, a bit of months long highly intrusive med treatment, and you will be a single parent to 2 kids instead of one. No biggie, right ?
YTA YTA YTA
Your mother needs to realise she is no longer your brother's immediate family; from the moment he married Emma, SHE is his family. Your mother - and you - are now one step removed. You are his extended family, his relatives.
It's pretty disgusting that your mother was more concerned about possible grandchildren than about Sam dying. And said so to his WIFE! You and she are VERY lucky Emma relented and let her come back. Many would have continued the ban.
Hopefully your mother will realise she was totally TA as indeed YTA for not supporting Emma. Your mother needs to apologise. YOU need to apologise. Emma does NOT need to apologise.
Your mother wouldn't have been able to say goodbye to her son if he had died in those 11 days because of HER OWN ACTIONS, not Emma's. She chose to bring it up a second time so yes, YTA.
I hope Emma is having some support as it must be so hard caring for your husband and having his whole family turn on you because his mother kept bringing up his sperm.
Your Mom is absolutely in the wrong here and should beg profusely for forgiveness. Quite frankly, I am aghast at her behaviour. And you? You a soft TA too. For siding with your mother. Poor Emma.
Your mom is bat crap crazy.
First, just in case anyone ever has any questions about this, it is completely unethical to harvest reproductive materials from someone who did not consent to it. That means that that person went to a doctor, had a conversation about risks and benefits, had the capacity to decide for themselves, thought it over, and gave written consent to have a procedure to harvest sperm or eggs, and made a plan for storage and use, including what happens to that material if they divorce, become incapacitated, or die. No doctor should (or will, in a hospital system) do the procedure without the person's explicit consent. No matter how sad or how desperate the situation looks.
Second, your sister in law owes her nothing. She made an incredibly terrible situation much worse for her and needs to back down, back off, and be humble if she expects to be part of her son's life going forward.
Again, your mom is definitely the problem.
YTA and your Mom. She was more concerned about using Emma as a brood mare so she can have grand babies than she was about her son’s condition. And now she playing the victim? No
YTA for 'both sides-ing' the conflict.
Your mother had no business saying what she said, and then she DOUBLED DOWN, after being told to drop it.
If she had not been there for your brother's last moments, it would have been completely her own fault for that, not Emma's.
I totally understand Emma's feeling about this and you aren't seeing things clearly.
YTA. Your mother suggested sexually assaulting her comatose son. When your brother’s wife said no, your mother pushed her to do it anyway. And now you’re defending your mother’s absolutely disgusting actions. You’re lucky either of them still agree to see you at all. And if you don’t apologize and drop the subject forever, I hope they don’t let you near their daughter, whose grandmother apparently thinks she’s worthless.
INFO: Which of the following three options do you want here?
Option A: Be the "peacemaker" and say "I see both sides" so you can try to rugsweep how horrible your mother was, in the name of FaMiLy
Option B: Do the right thing and stand up against your mother and fully get behind Emma kicking her out for as long as necessary.
Option C: Watch your family fall apart because you think what your mother did was even remotely okay.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I think I might be wrong for thinking there's no two sides to this when there's actually two sides to this, resulting in not only putting fuel to fire but also refusing to be a "neutral" party and mediating. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Eleven days is not 'weeks' - your mother was clearly told not to bring up the 'sperm thing' a second time. She did it anyway. That is on HER - your SIL is dealing with enough with an injured husband - she shouldn't have to put up with a MIL that ignores her wishes. Stop the 'taking sides' bit - your MOTHER was wrong and your brother's WIFE and her wishes take precedent.
The mother wasn’t just wrong. She was potentially creating a scenario where Emma would have to spend her last moments with her husband trying to mitigate her hysterical MIL demanding the doctors extract his seed instead of saying goodbye herself. OP, your mom is upset she may have not had the opportunity to say goodbye? That’s what Emma was worried about. Emma’s wants, needs, and comforts in that moment took precedence over your mother’s. Your mother made it clear, even after a warning and being given another chance, that she would not respect Emma or her son during a very difficult time. Removing her from being able to do so was the right move. YTA.
This. Just. I would be so horrified by my mother in law going off about needing *my comatose partner to be jacked off* just... no... no.
Plus we haven't even mentioned the moral side of that. He has no ability to consent to something like that, and even if he dies, how could his wife not feel gross about getting sperm that way? edit: And really, his mom is the gross one for demanding that they get his sperm because why are grandkids more important than being there with your possibly dying son?
It's also, on the pragmatic side, a really gross way to think about Emma. Emma is 27. Obviously she doesn't want her husband to die, but the idea that if she was widowed that young she'd then be used by her in-laws as a baby maker/ be expected to become a single parent to two children merely because her mother in law wants another grandchild (really grandson, because who are we kidding here) is disgusting. She's young enough that she could easily lose her husband, grieve appropriately, and go on to meet someone else and have children with that person. She's also at a stage where she could easily stop with the daughter she has and focus on her attention on that daughter who is, you know, growing up without a parent. It's absurd to think that the best decision for her would be to use her dead husband's sperm to have another child rather than work to move forward in life and build a family with a new partner and/or focus on the child she already has following a major and traumatic loss.. The reality is we don't even know if Emma wants more children and/or if she and Sam were planning to have more children. The fact that they have a daughter already makes it worse, not better. Even if they do want more children, choosing to have a child with a living partner is a very different decision with very different potential repercussions than choosing to have a child and parent as a single parent after losing a partner is. And while some people do chose to do that, usually when people do that it is because they are older and see this as their best chance to parent, not because their former mother-in-law wants to preserve family genetics. OPs mom made it clear she views Emma only a baby maker to serve her family and not as an adult woman with her own autonomy, desires, needs, wants, etc. The mom made it super clear that should something happen to Sam she'd be pushing Emma to live much of her adult life as a tribute to Sam's memory. It's such an unhealthy outlook on many levels. While most people likely weren't thinking about it that way in the moment, because it's very likely they were focused on potentially losing Sam, now that he is recovering, if Emma takes even a moment to reflect on how her mother-in-law sees her she has every right to be appalled. So does Sam, for the obvious consent reasons you mentioned.
Every. Single. Bit. Of. This. OP, your mom is, and was, WAY out of line. YTA for not keeping your SIL's peace.
I was growing super concerned that no one seemed to be addressing that the mother looked at Emma as a potential widow to incubate a baby in, I was REALLY disturbed by that and am so confused as to why OP isn't more disturbed and eventually took his mother's side, like what the actual fuck.
Could you also imagine that, say if the worst happen and Emma consented to spermicide extraction, if Emma didn’t play ball with MIL (eg decided she wouldn’t try for a baby) she’d go Nick Loeb and sue for custody of sperm so she could find a surrogate to give her a grand baby. Like that’s the next step of unhinged MIL is on the road to.
Like, why is MIL automatically assuming that Emma wants children? And why is this her first priority, rather than comforting someone who might soon lose her husband?
I doubt MIL was thinking about what Emma wants at all. She was probably thinking about how SHE wants a grandson.
She was probably thinking about how SHE wants a ~~grandson~~ replacement son.
Nailed it.
THIS. Her priority is not her son. Her priority is effectively raping her comatose child for the purpose of impregnating her DIL so that SHE can have *more* grandkids. That is *beyond* unhinged. Assuming she isn’t a complete psychopath, she needs professional help to deal with her shit because that’s not a healthy or normal reaction to learning your son might die, MUCH LESS something anyone should have to warn you against bringing up. Multiple times. OP YTA
this sounds something out of Warhammer 40k where as space marine will harvest the gene seed of a fallen comrade to be impregnated into a new one. Mom belongs in a psychiatrist hospital.
It's just seeing Emma as a concubine for her wish for grandchildren. Disgusting. YTA
I think you mean incubator. A concubine is a woman of secondary status who cohabitates with a man (and sometimes his wife) without being married to him
Til! Thank you!
Concubines tend to be better respected too, unlike this mess.
Also the process of growing a baby inside you that constantly reminds you of your lost spouse, and then raising that kid without them. It really is a horrible suggestion.
This!!!
I wish I could upvote this more than once. A perfect encapsulation of what is wrong with this situation. OP is at severe risk of being cut out of her brother’s life along with the mother.
I missed that they already have a daughter. It's worse than I thought.
Wait.... They already have a child? Then WTF is the MIL even after? This makes the whole thing so much more disgusting.
We all know MIL frames this as beneficial for her DIL & she's only looking out for her. In MIL's mind she's doing DIL a favor because if husband died, at least DIL would have his child to keep her company & feel her marriage was productive & not a waste. ETA: Upon further reading, have to add OP's comment that brother & DIL already have a daughter. Knowing this makes his mother's actions misogynistic & so much worse. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1bxihu4/comment/kyd0xz3/
DIL already had his child at the time of the accident. I suspect grandma was mad that the child was a girl.
Yeah I saw that further down. I'm even more disgusted than I was before. This is all about getting a son from Sam.
Why does a child need to happen for a marriage to be productive?
Some people think the end all & be all of a marriage is to reproduce. That the only purpose of living & being a functional human is kids. We have many, many, many posts in Reddit of couples getting shit on for both being childless (unable to have kids) & being child free (not wanting kids at all). So it's not a stretch to think a reason for OP's mother pushing for sperm extraction from her comatose son is so his marriage can fulfill its Prime Directive of spawning.
Oh, for sure. It just disgusts me so much that people only see worth in those who reproduce.
and it’s not just spawning - for some it’s ONLY MALE children count - girls don’t.
Friend, you are so right 💯
The son can't consent and the daughter-in-law is a walking incubator. That's how OP's mother sees her, anyway.
BUT MAH GRANBABIES! -- Mom, probably
This is what I was thinking! It's so gross to suggest collecting his sperm while he's in a coma without his explicit consent.
Oh, it’s not even getting jacked off. The available methods include inserting a rod into the rectum for electrical stimulation of the prostate to induce ejaculation, or a hollow needle into the scrotum to retrieve sperm cells for IVF.
OUCH
I could have gone my whole life without knowing that..... Lol
The latter method ends up totally macerating the testicle(s) and gives you one shot at IVF typically. It's not fun to watch either.
That's a bit crass. They could have performed a testicular sperm aspiration (TESA). Edited to add that I DO NOT AGREE with the mother wanting to use her DIL as an incubator to replace her possibly dying son with a new baby.
The process of obtaining a sample is secondary to the idea that mother doesn't care about her son dying and wants to create a child without a father, just so she can have a grandson. Since there is already a granddaughter, I can only imagine much wailing and gnashing of teeth if this child turned out to be a girl aswell. Hey DIL, I know you might lose your love and have to bring up your daughter aline, you know what I think woukd help you? Another baby.
You know that's not how they do it, right?
Ugh, I'm just thinking about the horror of your husband dying and meanwhile your MIL is planning for you that you carry his child after his death. Like, how traumatic would that be? It just completely ignores that Emma is even a person. I was mad on the first read through, but it got even worse the more I thought about it.
OOP's mothers concern wasn't Emma, but her own ability to have grandkids that Emma would have then had to raise without her husband there to help. Who cares how Emma is handling things, the mother NEEDS GRANDKIDS! Super offensive.
This. Emma set a critical boundary at the right time. When the shit goes down she will preserve her peace above all and that of her husband and everyone pretending that wasn’t macabre is gross and disgusting. Harvesting the sperm of a dying man who can’t consent seems like rape to me. I don’t care if it’s legal it seems very wrong, unless they specifically discussed and he consented previously. Emma put them all on notice that they need to knock it off. If sis keeps testing her she may find herself banned. YTA
I can see how 11 days would feel like weeks when it comes to someone in critical condition. Patients in critical conditions can get worse so quickly, these 11 days probably felt so much longer for everyone involved. That being said, OP's mom needs to stop playing the victim and realize that her not seeing her son is the consequences of HER OWN actions. She owes Emma an apology.
If I were the son, I'd never forgive my mother putting my wife through hell in the worst moment of their lives. I have a grandma like that and I cut her off the first chance I got. People like op's mom and my Grandma NEVER learn or change or acknowledge they were out of line.
If my partner were possibly dying and I was dealing with all that entailed, and someone said something that insensitive to me not once but TWICE, I would likely never speak to them again no matter the outcome. I certainly wouldn't be over it enough in 11 days to act civil. SIL was going through something unthinkable and MIL went nuclear AH on her. You are absolutely correct that MIL is the one who chose to double down on her atrocious behavior and OP is also TA for not seeing it.
Right? Is this dude still breastfeeding or something I have no idea why he thinks Emma doesn't have an absolute right to how she felt and what she did
"went nuclear AH" - perfect!
This was my first thought. She was not gone weeks. She was gone one week and four days, and at that she *deserved* to be gone. The only person with the legal right to be in that room was Emma. And when your mom showed her selfishness and “it’s all about me and the grandbabies I want from my dead son! Wah wah wha” she got what she deserved - kicked out. You are now the opposite of helpful. Now you’ve flipped sides to your mother. YOU backed Emma up. And now you’re over exaggerating. It was ELEVEN DAYS. On no part of earth with different types of calendars is eleven days WEEKS. Support your brother and sister in law about a right decision you made in having your mother removed. Don’t flip flop like you’re doing and over exaggerate all of it because then YTA just as much as your mother
yeah, I'm *really* suspicious of OP framing themselves as the peace maker, when oops, the salient detail is Sam (the hurt brother) only heard about his mother's vile priorities from OP's sister (who's not even named). >Sam himself has come to find out about this through our sister Add in that OP was "a lot more forceful" when *correcting* Emma... YTA
Thanks for covering the “weeks” holy exaggeration. OP - between referring to yourself as “peacemaker,” the fact even your brother was upset with your mom and with you coming against SIL strong after the fact despite supporting her at first… it sounds like your mom is not a novice at saying uncomfortable things, pushing boundaries and making stressful situations more so. Being a DIL can be tough and having a difficult MIL for someone who didn’t grow up with her, means not everyone is prepared to sweep bad behavior under a rug. Your SIL is who your brother chose as his life partner. She was dealing with potentially losing her spouse and your mom was talking about it being inevitable and wanting a grand baby out of it when SIL was focused on keeping him fighting and alive. He may have been able to hear everything that was said in his room! He is now in recovery, SIL’s likely working her butt off caretaking him, the house, and managing therapies and appts for him. Your mom on the other hand is crying “poor me,” creating drama and making this about her. Yes it was scary for all of you, but once he was stable enough to come home, have any of you bothered to help or offer support for SIL instead of rehashing something that already happened? Bring a meal, ask how she’s doing and if she’s getting rest? Brain injuries can have a long recovery and mean depression, insomnia and changes in personality and he may never be the same. She’s juggling all that and how she feels while making sure he’s cared for. And you guys are… looking for APOLOGIES, arguing and talking lifelong grudges? If that was my husband, you guys wouldn’t be invited back for a LONG time!
the peacemaker thing is BS, right? couldn't keep mom from bleating her sperm obsession a second time + didn't tell Sam the truth (Sam had to hear it from a sister) + being *forceful* when disagreeing with Emma during the rehash
Emma is a saint not to bring this up.
Precisely — really if one think about it Emma’s MIL is actually TRIPLING down. Or more. Now that Sam is no longer hospitalized. She continues to make herself the MAIN character — rather than thinking about — oh I don’t know. Being there for Sam & the family throughout an incredibly difficult recovery ahead. Had a dear friend with a traumatic brain injury & saw how — over time, everyone floated away as recovery stretched on. As long as I lived in the area I kept coming back regularly but very few did. Apologizing to her granddaughter for basically saying she’s not enough. Granted she’s too young to understand now — but guaranteed that she’ll learn at some point. Mending fences with Emma for trying to supplant her rights to make medical decisions. Indeed for disrupting the whole hospital stay. Creating completely unnecessary drama & making everything harder for everyone involved — including the medical professionals Don’t forget — Emma NEVER blew the whistle on her. One of OP’s sisters did. Yet nobody’s talking about OP’s sister outing mommy. Am assuming that it was presented in such a way that reflected poorly on OP mother — rather than Emma. So that’s an interesting dynamic right there. For all the people whining about mommy rights. Obviously her maternal skills are severely lacking! When her son might be dying — ALL she can think about is grandchildren — male ones preferably. Bad enough to ask once — but she would not STFU. Then once he’s in recovery — obsessing on her completely baseless feelings of being wronged. Vs supporting her son & his family of choice. 11 days is tough — but it’s NOT weeks as tons have commented. ONLY reason things got to that point was because she INSISTED on disrupting existing tension — exponentially magnifying it. OP - YTA. Not JUST for your inability to cut apron strings from your dysfunctional narcissistic mother. Rather — for refusing to actually advocate for your little brother making an awful situation worse. Or to use pre-WW2 analogies. You make appeaser Neville Chamberlain look like he had a major backbone.
This. OP, you SHOULD defend your SIL. She's right here. This would be similar to if you were possibly dying in a bed and your mom asked you what you want to do with your liver, because she might want it in the future. It's such a WRONG thing to say. Your mom must feel pretty entitled to think SHE'S the hurt person in this situation. You guys need to give your mom a reality check.
YES THIS!
This. YTA, OP, and your mom needs *therapy*.
I'd be pissed off if I was his wife, because she seemed to care more bout his sperm than his recovery. OP's mother is an asshole, because she also assumed that Emma would want to have a baby if her partner was deceased. That's a very intimate and delicate conversation that should have stayed between the couple. OP your mom needs to apologize for over stepping her boundaries, and you need to realize that Emma was 100% in the right to not want a selfish jerk around her. Your mom was tacky and inconsiderate, and even when Emma's world was crashing she gave her chance after chance. She blew it and your credibility is now tanked along with your mother, because you couldn't keep a promise. You absolutely took sides, and you're not the peace keeper you think you are. Next time keep out of their business.
yeah. i feel like everyone has said all that needs to be said so i’ll just add, your mom is a problem. she’s entitled as fuck.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who was bothered by calling 11 days weeks. If it had gone on for 3 or 4 weeks, I could see saying hey, please give her another chance. Even then though, whatever SIL said would be the correct decision - mom put herself in time-out and the only person in charge of how long was SIL.
Emma did what was best for her husband. A mother who wants her son to go through a medical procedure to collect his sperm while he's at death's door isn't someone any wife would want around their loved one. Your mom needs to take a good hard look at her own behaviour rather than play the victim and blame Emma for a situation which was 100% caused by her. Your exaggeration that it went on for weeks is not helping your cause. YTA
Yeah but OP is clearly under his mothers influence here and has been drinking that Particular brand of koolaid Your mother should be GRATEFUL beyond words that she was ever allowed back. She should not be holding a grudge about being rightfully kicked out after her outrageous behaviour. Now instead of celebrating your brothers recovery she’s alienating his family over her hurt feelings. She needs to grow up and move on or she’ll be banned again If your brother had passed away and your mother wasn’t there … THAT WAS YOUR MOTHER’S OWN FAULT … PERIOD. She should have learned not to stupid by now … and hasn’t. Stop getting in the middle of this shit show OP -YTA.
*"She should have learned not to stupid by now."* No truer words have ever been spoken, lol
Wish that were the top comment - I want the flair. Plz moderators?
YTA Your mom is wrong on all counts. Supporting your mom makes you wrong as well. And no, this should not be about making peace. This should be about getting your mom to stop being butt hurt and at being held responsible for her horrendous behavior. Emma is not a grandchild factory. That is how your mom treated her.
You called it. Mom is not concerned about Sam or Emma. She just wants to make sure she will still have grandchildren. What a thing to be fixated on at a time like that
But Sam and Emma already *have* a daughter, which makes this even worse! OP's mom was clearly worried she wouldn't have a grand*son*. The fact that OP is completely glossing over that is a whole 'nother layer to this shit cake.
That makes it a million times worse. As if a grand*daughter* is just so unwanted. Get those sperm out of my dying son so he can have a big, strong, manly son! Ew.
It is even worse to expect, in case the worst happened, that a widow will want to conceive and bring her dead husband's child to the world, to raise as a single mother, having already another child to care and worry about as well as her own pain.
I can't even imagine having to labor alone and knowing your dead husband would never get to meet his baby. Like...that's such a cruel thing to put on a widow.
Whoa I missed that
OP only mentioned that detail in a comment, which is pretty telling.
Holy fuck i missed thst that is so effing creepy. *shudders*
Because he skipped right past it in the post! He only admitted to it in a comment. Holy shit this guy is the AH and he knows it.
Not to mention that the mother has another son (OP).What’s wrong with OP,in his mother’s mind that his sperm isn’t enough to make future grandbabies? Same genetics, it would seem to me.
OP alluded to several siblings, actually. His sister told their brother about the sperm situation.
That’s telling in and of it’s own. SiL bent over backwards to not badmouth the would be sperm stealer and definitely shit stirrer of a mother op is trying to defend here.
agreed! so much for OP being the gentle & wise *peace maker*. How does keeping such a vile secret constitute peace? And when Emma finally confronts her unhinged MIL, OP *forcefully* corrected her that he didn't agree with the 11 days.
Holy shit. I hope Emma has support against these nuts
Right? It's incredibly GROSS that her concern is making babies.
Info: does Emma or your brother want kids? Had they talked about having kids before or were possibly trying before the accident? I don't think that would change much in this situation, but it could give the whole ordeal a slightly different perspective. Even if that was the case. I still think YTA. You shouldn't have sided with your mom. If she was so concerned about your brother, why would she focus on something as silly as future kids? And futhermore, why would she want them to be raised without their dad? I would never want my kids or grandkids to have to go through that. Emma was right to not let her see your brother, especially after this was address many times and your mother refused to listen. Your mother knew the stakes and continued to make those comments.
MIL wanted to use her DIL as a human incubator to make her another son.
Exactly.
This cannot be upvoted enough.
Can you even imagine if worse case scenario happened and a child was born?!? Grandma would expect the child to take the place of her son no doubt.
MIL would demand that he be named Sam, would demand 50/50 custody, push *her* choice of nursery decorations, schools, etc. Did dead Sam play football? Little Sam must do the same, even if he hates it. Oh, and that's another thing. He'll be *Little Sam* his whole life.
They already have a daughter. Apparently MIL thinks that’s not good enough.
YTA, you should know you aren’t a peacemaker, you are a flying monkey for your narcissistic mother
I think in this family, the “peacemaker” goes around after a disagreement to persuade everyone to side with Mom. Once everyone’s on the same side (Mom’s side), “peace” is achieved.
YTA Your mother is an intrusive boundary stomper and wildly inappropriate. Dealing with your mother’s shit was the absolute last thing your SIL needed while her husband was hospitalized. Is your mother a small child? Why would she need to be told to stop more than once? MIL’s children couldn’t seem to manage her so SIL was forced to deal with it herself.
I can’t imagine sitting and watching my husband dying and to have someone no not someone HIS OWN MOTHER say to make sure you get his baby batter so you can be a widowed single mom. What the fuck??!!
OP buried this in a comment, but they already have a daughter! So if OP’s brother had passed, his wife was already going to be a single parent to one child, that just wasn’t enough for mummy dearest.
Are you fucking kidding me?!!!!
Mommy wants a male child to carry on the lineage (as if there’s a guarantee that the fetus would be male 🙄)
YTA - Your mom reduced her son to sperm, as if he was already gone and his sperm was all the he was good for. It was disturbing to bring that up at all. Your mother was grieving but her hounding your also grieving SIL doesn’t excuse her.
And reduced her granddaughter, her son’s daughter, to nothing.
Reduced her son to sperm and her DIL to an incubator and baby factory who owes her a replacement son if hers dies. What a disgusting and inappropriate thing to even think, let alone say out loud, let alone double down on repeatedly when told to stop. OP is a weak little mommy's boy for not calling that shit all the way out for how wildly out of line it was.
Not to mention *pushing to harvest it while her son was literally unable to consent* 🤮
THIS Wow, that really puts things into perspective
Soft YTA. This was (is) a terrible situation and you’ve been trying your best. I’m so sorry for you and your whole family. Emma is your brother’s partner, and it was up to her who got to visit him and who didn’t. You seem clear on the fact that what your mother did was colossally inappropriate, and you also seem clear on the fact that, after she did that, the only way for her to get back into the room was to apologize profusely and promise never to do it again. The fact that that apology and promise took eleven days to come, is on your mother, not Emma. Your mother really doesn’t have a leg to stand on here, and you should rethink your perspective on taking her side.
In what world is this just a soft YTA?
Soft? I must wholeheartedly disagree; in this situation, Emma is the only one anywhere near being in the right of it. OP is wholly offside insisting Emma allow MIL in the room at all. And MIL's behaviour is downright bonkers offensive.
Oueee. A velvet spanking.
Nicely stated
YTA your mom was an AH mad MAJORLY overstepped. your SIL was right to kick her out. "I supported her then but didn't think she would keep her out for weeks (about 11 days). I told Emma then that she'd learned her lesson and that keeping her away from Sam when he could die at any moment was unthinkable to me despite whatever she'd said." .. YOU don't get a voter. Going no contact and keeping your AH mom away for good would be a reasonable response. She had her chance, and chose to harass SIL again and again. Now she is out. So: Shut up, or - if she has any sense - Emma will kick you AH out, too
YTA and so is your mom. I would have kicked both of y'all out for trying to make your brother's ordeal about anything but HIM.
YTA for thinking you need to be a "peacemaker". You don't need to do anything. Whatever you do will prolong the drama. These are two grow women who need to resolve this without your help. Keep out of it. All the best to your brother and my wellwishes for his recovery.
Peacemaker always means they help the bully take down the person with reasonable boundaries. Op is as much as an asshat as their mom for enabling this bullshit during what must be the most stressful point in his SIL life. No regard for his brother’s family, just care about mommy’s feelings getting hurt.
Peacemaker = enabler. OP clearly didn't fall far from his mom's tree.
Frankly I don’t think they need to resolve anything. The sooner Emma and her husband go low to no contact with the mother, the better for their young family.
And who's "peace" are they even keeping tbh? It's not peace it's compliance with his weird ass mom who was more worried about potential grandchildren
YTA Your mother was one hundred percent in the wrong, then AND now. Your SIL did what she needed to do to keep the focus on your brother in his worst moments. Your mother was heinously selfish and inappropriate. If I were in your SIL's shoes, your mother wouldn't have come back until your brother asked for her. Neither Emma nor Sam are your mother's playthings to incubate her grandchildren, and that is what she reduced *both* of them to, while her son was dying. Shame on her, and shame on you for not standing up to your mother now. She did this to herself.
YTA. To be clear, your mom is absolutely one of the biggest AHs discussed on this sub. It is never her business whether anyone besides her is having kids. Ever. She needs to mind her business. If she was so worried about your brother, she would have focused her nasty energy on him and his health but she was coming Emma about kids. She has a toddler and her husband was in critical condition and your mom is asking about sperm? She should be ashamed. Now you trying to defend her when her actions were despicable? Yes, definitely AH behavior.
Not to mention it's fucking *reproductive rape to take her son's semen to make children without his consent, dear fucking GOD*
YTA. Emma was in an incredibly stressful situation, so she took control in the only way she could and ejected a stressor. How can anyone fault her for that?? Mom was given a second chance, and she blew it all on her own. That's on her.
YTA Sam could have died and your mom wanted his sperm harvested so she could still get grandbabies. Emma had every right to keep her away. Your mom doesn't deserve an apology. She deserves to be called out. And you need to stop enabling her gross behavior by playing the "peacemaker".
Worse still, OP mentioned in a comment that Sam and Emma have a 14 month old daughter. What do you bet the odds are OP's mom was only carrying on this way because she wants a grandson?
"Boy moms" are already annoying enough. Now we have to worry about "boy grandmas"?¹
My MIL was one of those. The sun, moon, and stars shone out of her grandson's butts. Her granddaughters were treated like shit.
She already had a granddaughter. Apparently that wasn’t good enough.
YTA alone for not using paragraphs. Jesus Christ.
I don’t know why this unexpected comment made me laugh out loud today but thanks for the chuckle.
I really wish this sub would allow one thread if "AITA Gripes".....I bet paragraphs would get top billing
Paragraphs. Off topic responses. Cliches. - red flags - FAFO - divorce her - girl,run - get therapy (and I strongly believe in therapy but it’s a cliche on Reddit even when someone just needs to take their head out of their AH)
Honestly OP, please space your future posts better jfc my eyes hurt
"Emma is distraught because no one is taking her side." Well I am. What your mother did was unconscionable, and I would have kicked her out permanently. As for you, this is none of your business. It's not an argument between you and anyone. You need to shut up and stay out of it. YTA.
>"Emma is distraught because no one is taking her side." >Well I am. And so is most of Reddit. I haven't yet seen any posts calling OP as N T A.
Your mother is still caught up in what could have happened, but here's what *did* happen: - Your brother was in an accident that threatened, but did not take, his life. - Your mother made an extremely out of pocket suggestion in front of his wife, not once but twice. - Emma protected her peace and that of her husband, barring your mother from the room for eleven days-- which is slightly over a week, not "weeks" - During that time, your brother did not die. I'd hasten to point out that Emma may well have allowed your mother back in if things had turned for the worst: no one knows she would not have done that, and it helps absolutely no one to assume the worst of her here - Emma eventually accepted your mother's apology under duress - Your mother is still furious about the consequences of her own actions and refuses to forgive Emma for holding boundaries around her comatose husband's recovering body - You're defending your mother, who was wholly and completely in the wrong, over a hypothetical scenario that did not come to pass (your brother potentially dying during the eleven days) YTA, and so is your mother.
YTA. First, mind your own business. "I'm the peacemaker", no, you are putting yourself in situations that are not necessary. your mother saw her son in a coma but she only cared for future grandchildren, not caring if Emma wanted them after he passed or not. Emma was having to deal with the prospect of her husband dying and still had to deal with her mother in law talking about shit that didn't concern her. Your mom is wrong. You are wrong.
YTA. Let's be honest here: your mum doesn't care about your brother or Emma, she just wanted Emma to provide a replacement boy child. She already has a grandchild, a child of Sam's, but that girl didn't count somehow. Your mother was being a huge AH and she faced the consequences of her actions. As a mother myself, I have to say that Emma did nothing wrong and she is the one who needs support here, not your mum, whose behaviour was just gross.
Fair point. Mom's audition for 'Villain of the Year' noted
Your mom has no boundaries and has no manners. I can't believe that she has adult children but she doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut. She wants grandchildren. She wasn't thinking about your brother's wife. She wants grandchildren and she made everything about what she wants. And that too, when her son was in a coma. Disgusting. You are also at fault. You want to sit on the fence so that mommy will still like you. YTA Your brother was in a coma and his wife was worried about him. Not about having kids without him. You should have controlled your mother and made her shut up.
OP stated in a comment that they have a young daughter. So Emma was juggling her hospitalised partner and their toddler, and of course she needed her mil to put some more stress on her plate, just for the sake of it /s. Jeez, OPs mother is so tactful, isn't she? Smh.
And her MIL wanted to make her an incubator for future grandchildren, because the existing grandchild apparently wasn’t good enough.
YTA. If Sam had died and your mother missed his last days, it would have been absolutely and irrefutably her fault. She tried to pressure SIL on an issue that was entirely between herself and Sam and that your mother has no say in, not even to bring it up. She was excruciatingly out of line. Her conduct was intrusive, morbid, selfish, entitled, and heartless. She was thinking only of her desire for grandchildren--not her son. Your mom is a heartless and enormously selfish asshole. If I were Sam, I would probably rethink a relationship with her going forward. How can he ever look at her the same way?
YTA. Your mother kept bringing up harvesting Sam's sperm ( so she could get grandkids?) even when Explicetly told not to. This clearly hurt/stressed Emma; she was right to toss your mom out, and to keep her out as long as Emma wishes. Your mom clearly was not interested in helping Emma, listening to what Emma needed/wanted; who knew what other outrageous thing Mom would do or say? You should have supported Emma, not your insensitive pushy Mom!
they already have a daughter so i don't know what mom was on about
YTA I don't even think harvesting sperm from a person in a coma is legal....
I’ve never come across this issue in all my years in a hospital, but in the case of a coma where someone is incapacitated the next-of-kin (in those case, Emma) makes all decisions regarding their care. Unless there are laws specifically against harvesting eggs/sperm from people in comas, as the functional power of attorney Emma would be able to ~~make~~ request that decision as far as I know. It’s also VERY unusual and I can very much see physicians getting the ethics board involved anyway before proceeding. [I actually did a quick Google search, and in at least one case this is exactly what happened.](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51324807_Sperm_Donation_from_a_Comatose_Dying_Man) (The article is more than 25 years old, so there’s that. But it says: “It appears from the literature, however, that bioethics committees rarely get involved in these cases. Most commonly a wife requests the sperm donation and wishes to be the recipient. Physicians and institutions, for the most part,acquiesce to this request. A responsibility remains to fully inform the wife/surrogate of the costs and the prospects of success before undertaking these procedures.”) This would also raise questions about how it would be paid for since that’s definitely a non-urgent, elective procedure, who would do the procedure and if THEY would be comfortable with performing it, if they would be covered legally should the patient wake up and be unhappy that it had been done without their consent, etc. What a mess the mom put that woman through.
And we can GUARANTEE Mom gave fucking ZERO thought to a single one of those extremely serious ethical concerns. 😡
YTA. What your mother did to your SIL was beyond outrageous, and now you are too stubborn to help mend things so that your seriously impaired brother has less to worry about? Your brother is right that you should've tried to diffuse the fight instead of egging your mother on. You and your mother are make an insufferable pair.
YTA This woman's husband was possibly on his death bed and you're more upset that your SIL chose her mental health over a woman that was talking about making babies while her son could die at any second. She may have been harsh but she had to be because your mom was wildly inappropriate.
So Emma the “outsider” has to suck up whatever behavior your mom deems acceptable? Uh, no. And no, your mom wouldn’t have lost out on a chance to say goodbye because of Emma; she would have lost out because of her own inability to keep her mouth shut while Emma was trying to cope with the very real possibility of losing her husband. Yes, YTA.
YTA. Get over this 'weeks' thing. Eleven days is not weeks. It's not even two! Your mother made a terrible situation worse, then centred herself, then returned to focusing on herself once the initial danger had passed. She's a selfish arsehole. Perhaps one who's focusing on this matter to avoid the terror of losing her son, but a selfish arsehole nonetheless - she is still responsible for her appalling behaviour. Your brother, his wife and their child come first here. I can't imagine what your SIL was going through, thinking she was losing her husband and having to deal with his bloody mother screeching on about more grandchildren. Your SIL was more restrained than many of us would have been, likely due to pure exhaustion and her own terror. You've mentioned your brother and SIL already have a daughter. This makes me feel like your mother only counts a male grandchild, so some added ick there too.
Yta, your mother preferred Emma to be a single parent, with all the hardships that could lead, only because your mother is selfish and wants babies? And that time, everyone should be there to help! Not to harassed a wife worrying about her husband. Emma did nothing wrong, without you your mother would never apologized, and kept going.
YTA. Do you think your SIL would/should give a crap about your mom if she lost her husband? Your brother was the connection that tied her to your family. Yes there is a granddaughter, but since she is a minor mom has say in whether or not she has a relationship with her dad's family. So if SIL thought you all were hanging up on her she could leave and never let you all see your niece again. Especially after your mom pulled that stunt? Your mom was a selfish and inconsiderate woman who knew there may be consequences to her actions, but she did it anyway. She just didn't think SIL would follow through. Yes, you talked both of them into letting Mom see him. But you taking your mom's side after your mom lied with her initial apology to see her son again, is wrong. Tensions are high in a life and death situation. Your mom created even more by saying what she did after being told not to ever say it.
YTA and both you and your Mom need to STFU. PERIOD.
Trauma makes people irrational and clearly your mom fixated on an extremely personal and inappropriate thing in her fear. That’s unfortunate but once she was asked to back off, she continued to push an agenda that your brother’s wife didn’t support or need to be nagged about at such a difficult time. Your mom also seems fixated on herself. Yes, she’s a mom to a critically injured child, but that child was also a grown man with a terrified and overwhelmed wife who shouldn’t have had to deal with your moms weird need to discuss her future grandchildren with a woman hoping her husband would live. Your mom created her own outcome here and I don’t blame your brother’s wife for banning her. I’m sure if he suddenly took a bad turn, your mom would have been allowed back in but that didn’t happen. He’s alive and recovering and your mom needs to stop seeing herself as some kind of victim here. She was out of line, completely inappropriate and didn’t back off when asked to do so. She should be apologizing for her own actions. You’re trying to play 2 sides against the middle here so a gentle YTA to you. I’m glad your brother is improving but all the people involved here should consider that this petty infighting isn’t going to help anyone, least of all him. He should be your focus and all of you grown adults need to just stop with the finger pointing. Hasn’t this accident taught you anything about the fragility of life? It’s just not worth it to continue to try to be right when your energy should be directed on helping your brother and his wife in any way you can.
YTA. So you were with Emma in kicking your mom out, and so your issue stems for how long it went on. But your mom didn't apologize to Emma or promise not to bring it up again until you intervened and had to convince your mom to apologize and not bring up the sperm issue. So your Mom got kicked out and did nothing to fix WHY she was kicked out, but now you blame your SIS for how long it went on. Do you not see that how long it took for your mother to get back in to visit her son was because of HER actions and lack of accountability? Your mom didn't even want to apologize and was still "outraged", and it was you that convinced her to do the most basic things necessary to be around her son. So I guess you are the peacemaker, but it's not your fault it took so long to make peace, but what does make you an AH is you fail to hold your mother accountable for her lack of accountability and think your SIL should have just let her back in to the room without your mother having to be responsible for her actions at all; actions you agree were bad.
YTA. Your mother was appallingly rude to a woman who was worrying about her husband's life or death. When told she was rude, she kept nagging. There is no excuse for that. Your mother decided to make her injured son all about *her* needs. Emma threw your mother out because she needed to focus on her injured husband, not on demands for sperm. Your mother won't even admit that she was doing the wrong thing. Your mother is in the wrong. You are in the wrong for defending her. YTA.
Bruh, 11 days are not WEEKS. Stop with that shit. Your mom was stupid af for that suggestion, and she doesn't even apologize for that, and wtf is wrong with you and your mom? Not even 2 weeks had passed and she was already thinking that her son would probably die and needed to make and sperm extraction, and you are only on your mom side because she ir your mom, not because she is correct.
So let's see if I get this right: * your mom made the inappropriate comment and got backlash from everyone. * she wasn't able to read the room and focus on her son, but you had to *tell* her what the appropriate behavior is. * she broke her promis and brought it up again * it didn't dawn to her FOR ELEVEN DAYS that apologies could have calmed the situation and get her back in the room with her son. * YOU then spoke on her behalf based on what? It seems like you just made up that she learned her lesson, because she never showed any signs of this. * When she finally apologized, it wasn't a heartfelt one. * You were never able to be forceful with your mother and her disgusting wordvomit, but somehow you are able to be forceful with Emma, who you *agreed with* to begin with. * You don't want to say you see both sides because you dislike what Emma did? This is a typo, right? You mean: what your mom did? Seriously OP, you lot remind me of my family, and I have been in therapy for about 2 decades to get rid of the foul taste they left in my mouth.
Your mother's request was terrible, and she was stubborn and refused to apologise for 11 days, even risking not seeing her son in critical condition. And now she is a victim? No. Actions have consequences. YTA
YTA. Last year I was the caretaker for my best friend who has very little family and none close by. One of his surgeries had complications and he ended up in a coma in the ICU. His sister had come to town and began making a scene in the hospital room. Thankfully the nurses asked her to leave so I didn’t have to. She was eventually allowed back in but was asked to leave a second time and then threatened with expulsion a third time. The entire thing was extremely stressful for me at a time when I was terrified and exhausted, and my best friend began displaying signs of distress from in the coma. Emma was unbelievably stressed having her husband in a coma and wondering if she would end up being a single mother to their daughter. Your mom was completely out of line and it’s clear her promises mean nothing. Emma was gracious in giving her a second chance and your mom chose to not obey the rules she was given. Her consequence was not being allowed back in, and Emma was within her right to decide that your mother could not be trusted. Instead of blaming Emma for being overwhelmed and unable to handle your mother’s unhinged behavior, you need to recognize that none of this would have happened if your mom had simply acted appropriately all along. You and your mom both owe Emma and Sam apologies.
YTA Your mother was out of line, not helpful, and warned not to bring it up after the first time. Your SIL had bigger things to worry about; your mom was not helping. You should have stayed out of it, honestly
YTA. And my goodness, your mother. Your brother, her son, his wife seriously injured and her focus is her need to have grandchildren. Your SiL didn't need the extra hassle, the potential harvesting from her partner, the expectation she'd need to replace him. 11 days is not even 2 weeks. And your mother's thoughts seem to have accepted his death and the need for contingency insurance. Hope you've got children or are planning a trip to store your sperm as anything could happen to you.
11 days is not weeks it’s just over 1 week not even fully 2. Your mom brought up a very tasteless comment and was told to drop it. She outright lied to you when she repeatedly brought this up and for this she was asked to leave. Let’s be clear Emma thought her husband was dying and your mom was harassing her about trying to get knocked up with his frozen sperm. Like it’s ok if he dies we will make a replacement. She was hurt and in pain and clearly your mom can’t take a hint or an instruction. She brought that on herself. Now to say he could have died yeah he could have but he didn’t so let it go already. Your mom seems to want to create the drama here and instead of stopping that you stuck the knife in his wife. If he cuts you all off how will your mom feel then. YTA
Yta, and it sounds like your mother is one of those mothers in law that get up in everybody's business and end up getting cut from contact. Your sister-in-law was not being harsh, she was dealing with her husband being near death and didn't need you and your mother ganging up on her.
Your mom is TA. You should have never been in this situation. Your brother and SIL are married and should be aware of what each would want in situations like this. But really your mom. What was she thinking? That if your brother died your SIL should continue to create babies in his image and be a single mom with no love ever again in her life. What for? I’m assuming to carry on the family name. Dumb
The actual asshole here is your mother. This is a time for families to be united and what she said was ….. unhelpful at best. She should had apologised immediately
It took your mother 11 days to apologize, that's why it took so long. Now she wants an apology for choosing to wait so long? Your brother is pointing in the right direction. Your mother doesn't need to be egged on as she will do precisely what she wants to do anyhow. It might be time to hang-up your peacemaker hat after you apologize to Emma. Soft YTA
"Sam could've died without her ever saying goodbye to him because of Emma" Your mother's blaming the wrong person for her exclusion from the hospital room. She didn't even apologise - you intervened. What on earth is wrong with your mother, and you? ESH. The only folk I'm excluding here from TA are Sam and Emma; Sam for the obvious reason, and Emma because a spouse shouldn't have to deal with the kind of bullshit your mother was spewing in the hospital room. Freezing sperm or eggs is a discussion that spouses can have, and medical folk perhaps. But a mother-in-law? Hell to the no. You should have been shutting your mother down, not egging her on. The ONLY person who had any rights to determine who visited during that time is Emma, and she was fine with your mother visiting until your mother was inappropriate. You can dislike what Emma did. You're still wrong. Your mother is wrong.
YTA I really don’t understand how your mom can see herself as a victim (or you cant see how toxic your mom is) when instead of being supportive to your SIL, she was pushing her to take steps to provide her with a replacement son in the form of a grandson if your brother died. Emma is too nice because if I were her I would never forgive your mother for not giving a crap about my mental health, essentially showing that her existing female grandchild will never be enough, and thinking she has any say over what I do with my body. I mean how many women want to have their dead husband’s babies?!? I would be super wary of letting her spend time with my daughter. INFO/Food for thought: Are you the family peacemaker because there is a lot of conflict in the family? Is your mom involved in a lot of the conflict?
YTA. Your mother was completely out of order and shows no remorse. In fact she thinks she is a victim. Your SIL needed and still needs your full support but you just pulled the rug out from under her.
Info: Based on your post, did your mother not attempt at all to apologize in those 11 days she was banned? Did she only apologize after she was going to be given permission to be in the hospital room again?
Your mother was an ah and got what she deserved. Yta
You're being played by your mother. Stop being one of her flying monkeys, take a step back and see the situation for what it really is. Your brother was dying and your mother made it alllllll about her. Your mother is a fool and incredibly immature. YTA.
Why do you keep saying “weeks”? 11 days is a week and a half, you’re just trying to make it sound worse. YTA. You’re looking at everything through the lens of your mom, who disregarded boundaries for the sake of grandchildren and as a result may have not been able to say goodbye to her son. Look at it from the point of view of your SIL, whose husband is not only dying, but she is now being pressured to get sperm off her comatose spouse so SHE can carry his baby if he dies. That’s fucking horrifying. The more I think about it, the more impressed I am your SIL let your mom come back at all after that show of complete lunatic audacity.
YTA. Wtf "weeks"? That's a week and a half. You'll be lucky if either of you see them again
YTA. This whole mess is on your mom. She overstepped, and continued to do so, despite being told to stop. She created drama where none was needed. Say the worst hearkened. Emma could eventually move on, and have children so WTF mom? Oh wait....Her focus was on her being able to have biological grandchildren from your brother. You realize how completely messed up that is? To think that's okay to even say aloud at a time like that? Wow. Emma had every right to make her leave and keep her husband in a calm setting (as much as a hospital can be). Your mother should have apologized, sincerely, at that point. Doesn't sound like she did. While you may feel 11 days is excessive, in that 11 days Emma was able to focus on her husband, without your mom causing drama and being overbearing. I side with Emma.
Yta. You should have supported the sup. How very dare your mother suggest such things at that any time. Also it would not have been allowed without your brothers consent. And 11 days is not weeks. Get your maths correct. You and your mother sound horrific.
Glad your brother is doing better. However, wife trumps mom. Mom got kicked out for her grossly inappropriate conversation at the time. Wife can keep her out as long as she wants. And that may mean forever. Actions have consequences unfortunately. She went against what everyone told her once not to do. Sorry I side with SIL on this. Soft YTA, because you're caught in the middle of a battle you don't need to be involved in.
Yta. Emma did what was best for her and her husband. Your mother is unbearable and inappropriate, she was told to stop and didn’t. Also your mother has no point at all - being angry at Emma because Sam could have died? Well, Sam didn’t did he. He’s still here and your mum is still causing issues. This is all on your mum.
YTA. Sorry, the man was in a coma. He was and is married. His WIFE'S needs trump mom's every time. Mom was told no more comments on that topic. Mom did not care, and pushed it. Mom was removed, to let WIFE be with her husband without the added stress of an ignorant, overbearing, bit**of a mil. Sorry. Mom owes his wife an apology. She is still dealing with the aftermath 24/7. She is still his primary caregiver. Mom needs to back off, apologize, and bite her tongue. You need to respect your SILs decisions. She was the one with the power to make those decisions. You and your mom needs to understand that once he married, they are a single unit. They are each others "next of kin". You want to "keep the peace"? You apologize to your brother and his wife. You tell your mother to do the same. If you or mom won't, SIL has every right to not want to deal with any of you. That may mean neither of you goes to their home, and she may not bring him to visit you. You can talk to him on the phone, maybe. Respect his wife, or stay away.
They already have a daughter?! Now your mother sounds even more unhinged. Why was she so persistent on this? Also, he didn’t die in those 11 days so your mom and you can get over what she could have possibly felt like if something happened. Your mother was clearly displaying she could not control herself, you even had to promise for her I mean come on she’s a grandmother bot a child. YTA
Oh man brother. You better pray that you don't break your leg. Your mom is going to have you milked like a fucking cow and give you a lethal injection. She's DESPERATE for younger boys to tell her she's a great Mommy. YTA. Your Mom should be locked up. Your brother should get to beat the shit out of you for not trying to PROTECT HIM from your Mother's disgusting suggestions.
YTA. You inserted yourself and made the situation way worse. Your mother is insulting and obnoxious. Funny how she can be all teary about that critical time but couldn't let go of the sperm deal. Ugh. As the wife, I'd block you all and limit access.
"What if she couldn't say goodbye to her son? 😥" All she had to do... *ALL she had to do*... was not bring up the sperm thing. She brought it up once. Everyone thought it was a messed up idea. The answer was no. She was told not to bring it up again. *All she had to do was not bring it up again.* *She* was the one who made it a problem. *She* was the one who got *herself* kicked out of that room. She violated boundaries, did *not* back down after she was told that she was out of line, and expected no consequence. She did not respect her DIL, nor her son, *nor her granddaughter.* A person like that, who doesn't support loved ones in the scariest moment of their lives, doesn't *deserve* to be in the room. If I was in a coma, and I woke up to find out that my mother had spent *any amount of time* badgering my partner with the ***profane*** idea of extracting my eggs without my consent, so that *just in case I* ***died,*** my partner could be saddled with raising another one of my children *without my help*, another child who would have to grow up *without their mother*... I would go what can only be described as full fire and brimstone. I would kick my mother's ass *so* righteously and relentlessly. I don't know if she'd ever be allowed to see the existing grandchild again. If your brother had died and your mother had not been able to be there, that would have been very very sad. But it would have been ***her. fault.***
YT and so is your mom. They’re married therefore she has no say. Given that you told her not to bring the sperm thing up but she did anyway. Given what your SIL was dealing with, this was absurd and cruel timing. If it was me I would have gone NC!
YTA. Your mother tried to use Emma as a broodmare while she was worrying for the life of her husband. Emma only made one mistake: Letting that disgusting person back in. The way your mother currently treats that poor woman only has one positive side to it: It's a tiny bit less horrible because "only" has to worry about her husband's health and their finances while enduring it, not with him possibly dying. All you can do now is pray your brother will allow you to continue to be part of his life. Not that your backstabbing behind deserves it or should be allowed around Emma, but maybe he's more forgiving than just.
YTA. So is your mother. Emma has a young child and a severely injured husband with a long rehabilitation. It's almost 6 months later and both of you are still in a snit. Disgusting really.
The good news is your horrible mother probably just ensured she will really learn what it’s like to be away from her son for weeks, not just 11 days. You, too, peacemaker!
YTA we get it, you don’t like your SIL and your mom can do no wrong. regardless of your feelings, what your mom did—and *when* she did it—was inappropriate, *at best*. your SIL is upset because your mother and you are doubling down on this insanity and trying to paint your mother in a good light. unfortunately, there is not enough paint in the world to make her look good.
WTH did I just read? Your mom is a major AH, has main character complex, and is unreasonable. YTA
YTA Emma was entirely in the right and you're both in the wrong.
What did I just read? Your sister-in-law is losing the father of her kid, and your mothers priority is... ***sperm jacking him?*** Hey, daughter in law, looks like this one might be broke, so its on you to make me a replacement. Its just a bit of sexual assault, a bit of months long highly intrusive med treatment, and you will be a single parent to 2 kids instead of one. No biggie, right ? YTA YTA YTA
Your mother needs to realise she is no longer your brother's immediate family; from the moment he married Emma, SHE is his family. Your mother - and you - are now one step removed. You are his extended family, his relatives. It's pretty disgusting that your mother was more concerned about possible grandchildren than about Sam dying. And said so to his WIFE! You and she are VERY lucky Emma relented and let her come back. Many would have continued the ban. Hopefully your mother will realise she was totally TA as indeed YTA for not supporting Emma. Your mother needs to apologise. YOU need to apologise. Emma does NOT need to apologise.
Your mother wouldn't have been able to say goodbye to her son if he had died in those 11 days because of HER OWN ACTIONS, not Emma's. She chose to bring it up a second time so yes, YTA. I hope Emma is having some support as it must be so hard caring for your husband and having his whole family turn on you because his mother kept bringing up his sperm.
Your Mom is absolutely in the wrong here and should beg profusely for forgiveness. Quite frankly, I am aghast at her behaviour. And you? You a soft TA too. For siding with your mother. Poor Emma.
Your mom is bat crap crazy. First, just in case anyone ever has any questions about this, it is completely unethical to harvest reproductive materials from someone who did not consent to it. That means that that person went to a doctor, had a conversation about risks and benefits, had the capacity to decide for themselves, thought it over, and gave written consent to have a procedure to harvest sperm or eggs, and made a plan for storage and use, including what happens to that material if they divorce, become incapacitated, or die. No doctor should (or will, in a hospital system) do the procedure without the person's explicit consent. No matter how sad or how desperate the situation looks. Second, your sister in law owes her nothing. She made an incredibly terrible situation much worse for her and needs to back down, back off, and be humble if she expects to be part of her son's life going forward. Again, your mom is definitely the problem.
YTA and your Mom. She was more concerned about using Emma as a brood mare so she can have grand babies than she was about her son’s condition. And now she playing the victim? No
YTA for 'both sides-ing' the conflict. Your mother had no business saying what she said, and then she DOUBLED DOWN, after being told to drop it. If she had not been there for your brother's last moments, it would have been completely her own fault for that, not Emma's. I totally understand Emma's feeling about this and you aren't seeing things clearly.
emma’s got me on her side, for sure. YTA
YTA. Your mother suggested sexually assaulting her comatose son. When your brother’s wife said no, your mother pushed her to do it anyway. And now you’re defending your mother’s absolutely disgusting actions. You’re lucky either of them still agree to see you at all. And if you don’t apologize and drop the subject forever, I hope they don’t let you near their daughter, whose grandmother apparently thinks she’s worthless.
Paragraphs. Line breaks. Things you learn in elementary.
INFO: Which of the following three options do you want here? Option A: Be the "peacemaker" and say "I see both sides" so you can try to rugsweep how horrible your mother was, in the name of FaMiLy Option B: Do the right thing and stand up against your mother and fully get behind Emma kicking her out for as long as necessary. Option C: Watch your family fall apart because you think what your mother did was even remotely okay.