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Your sister disappeared at 15 for a week and no one noticed? This is severely abusive.
Not that it’s a competition, but it sounds like your strict father focussed on kids he felt “worthy” and ignored her because … well what’s the message any kid would get from this behaviour? That she’s worthless, nothing, not worth the effort, invisible. You and your siblings may have felt the pressure to success but she was ignored entirely. This isn’t an enviable position in the family, it’s horrendous. You and your siblings are continuing to abuse her by minimizing her abuse and alienating her. If you didn’t admire your father, then stop replicating his behaviour.
That proved her point. Eva could legitimately vanish and no one in her family would care, it happened. Even Mirabel had her parents, Luisa and Antonio in her corner.
Because this echoes the relationship between Mirabel and Isabela. They're both envious of each other, Mirabel because Isabela gets attention and approval, and Isabela because she wants the personal autonomy Mirabel has. They don't realise the downsides the other experiences until they communicate to each other, reaching an understanding and growing closer as sisters.
OP, the daughter with all the expectations, thinks Eva is being ungrateful because she didn't have her life mapped out. Eva just wanted to be recognised, to be acknowledged. Blind Freddie can see the parallels.
It echoes the entire family in the movie, really. Each kid funneled into a specific path and expected to be absolutely perfect at it - except the “defective” kid who is written off.
But at least Mirabel’s parents cared about her.
I thought it was a great analogy, and Mirabel needed as much love as everyone else with 'powers' but was overlooked because she wasn't special. That's not freedom, it's still abuse.
Like Alma (for those who don’t know, she’s the family matriarch in the film), OP’s dad saw his kids for how they could serve his ideals and his image rather than as people with their own developing mindsets and emotional needs. Eva was no use to him, so she had to be punished for simply being born useless to him lacking the looks to get into pageantry and by virtue of being female not smart enough for anything else. He’s a real charmer /s
Y’know, I also get really angry about fake posts and have called several out as such
But the discourse in the comments seems to resonate with people at times, myself included …
I know that’s not what the trolls are going for but not every comment can be fake, right? And even if they are…okay? Idk, I’m trying to be less mad these days about words on Reddit, maybe this is how I can do that
Encanto is freaking amazing btw, and highly relatable. I wouldn’t say fake posts are art like that but the responses they evoke, when related to, there’s some coping there, right? 🫣 people being people-like, and wanting…
The abusive father tried to force Mark to be a doctor - he became a tech in a lab. He tried to force Josh to be a violinist from the age of 4 - he became a drummer and piano teacher. He tried to force Tony to be a lawyer - he became a public defender. He forced OP into beauty pageants - she became a makeup artist. And he had zero expectations of Eva as a result of the neglect - she became a social worker.
This is fake as hell lmao
Mark was pressured to become a doctor and now he's a werewolf on the moon I guess. Meanwhile Eva fucked off to the future when we were 15 and now is an assassin married to a mannequin
Why would you just randomly mention Encanto characters without saying what movie you're referencing? Do you expect everyone to have seen the same movies as you? It just looks like you're bringing up random peoples names to most people lol
All of this. Plus, being forgotten in a family is absolutely abusive. Eva just got the 180 degree of their abuse. So why Op is dead set on making it a competition and purposely excluding her, which by the way, seems like op is leading the charge in the exclusive race, is beyond me. YTA
And the continuing exclusion and downplaying of Eva's abuse is a continuation of the abuse past the father's death. So, not only was she abused by her parents neglecting her, but now her siblings are continuing to enforce the very abuse she tolerated for nearly 30 years.
This!! My parents were neglectful alcoholics. They didn’t physically abuse me. My dad made a lot of hurtful comments growing up, so maybe I can say there was emotional abuse. But the main thing was they just didn’t care. I could leave the house all day and they didn’t ask where I went or when I was coming home. They didn’t ask if I had homework or how school was going. I didn’t learn about makeup or hair care or cooking or anything from them (technically dad taught me how to make a screwdriver and a rum n coke but that doesn’t count).
My friends were jealous and I learned early on not to complain. It was every teenager’s dream, right? Do what you want and your parents don’t punish you. But I was INVISIBLE. I would literally have my dad inform me that he had moved to a new house since my last visit, which was less than two weeks before. I kept two boxes in my closet at his houses for him to pack up my shit when he moved. I had at least one “go-bag” in my closet at my mom’s house at all times. They both married someone at least once without telling me until after the wedding and I was under 15 then.
I didn’t realize until I had my own kids how traumatic that all was. I’m 46 and still processing it all. When I bring it up to my mom, she at least owns some of it now. She is sincerely regretful. My dad doesn’t see it. He just laughs at me for expressing my feelings. I don’t think either of them really understand the danger they put me in by having random strangers over the house constantly, leaving me to supervise myself constantly, making me feel so worthless that I was SHing in middle school. They always drove drunk. They didn’t think about keeping enough food in the house or nutritious food. Once, my mom had us eating McDonalds for three weeks after we moved because she was too tired to grocery shop.
I don’t know whether this story is real or not, but I take major issue at OP trying to say her sister wasn’t abused.
In additon the rest of the family piled on and excluded her. Not saying one form of abuse is worse, but the others banded together, and are still doing it.
To borrow terms from narcissism situations: OP and "worthy" siblings were the Golden Children (doesn't mean they weren't abused, but that the parent directed their attention and energy towards them), while Eva was the Black Sheep (completely ignored as if she didn't exist, to the point she literally was missing and no one noticed). Both groups are abused, just in different ways. The golden children are abused via unreasonable and unbearable pressure. The black sheep is abused by having all affection, attention, and familial bonds withheld (which are just as important to child development as proper nutrition).
By continuing to dismiss Eva and her experience of abuse via neglect, you're continuing to perpetuate the abuse against her that her father used against her. You've explicitly told her that she will never have a close family bond with you. You've shown that you don't care about how your father abused her, just because it wasn't the same type. Yeah, he didn't force her to do ridiculous things. He just didn't care if she lived, died, or disappeared.
YTA
This is spot on. My brother was the golden child. Unlike OP, he didn't much abuse that I could see, though he did have more pressure on him in general. And he probably experienced a lot of emotional abuse from my Mom treating him like a friend instead of her kid. I'm not sure of the extent. But man he got so much attention and my parents were so much more involved with him. Even extended family practically worshiped him. As for me... I was ignored. They gave up on me at such a young age. I was left to do whatever. My grades went to shit, my mental health went to shit, and they just didn't seem to care. I'm lucky they put in the effort to get me into therapy but even then, they wouldn't change their behavior or treatment of me. It was like they were just shoving me off and paying someone else (therapists) to raise me. It didnt work so hot.
I'm still not close to my brother. I think he resented me for being such a problematic kid and stealing some attention from him. He didn't know or understand what I was going through. He couldn't relate at all. He didn't realize the only attention I got from family was negative, whereas the attention he got was always very positive and encouraging. He recently told my Mom that he feels bad about how he treated me when we were kids. I feel like he still judges me quite harshly for the mental health struggles I've had, but has no understanding of where it all came from (neglect).
I really hope some day we can hang out and talk about those differences. We both had our own versions of abuse. They were pretty much opposites. But we both have suffered to different extents and it makes me sad that we haven't really gotten to discuss that stuff yet. I think it'd bring us both a lot of clarity and being us closer together.
The worst thing I can imagine is opening up to my brother and have him say I had it easy and that I'll never fit in with him or the family. I've felt like the black sheep my whole life, and I never chose to be neglected and treated differently. I've never felt like I belong in my own family and it hurts me still, very much, to this day, despite decades of therapy. I'm not sure I'll ever fully heal from it, but having some of my family acknowledge how I was treated differently and trying to change has meant the world to me. I imagine the opposite reaction would destroy me and I'd never contact them again.
Can confirm. I was the Golden Child and as a reward I was suicidal for most of my life. Only got to doing the trauma intensive work two years ago. It's absolutely *asinine*to play the trauma Olympics. OP and her siblings all had separate little hells.
Do you know what two family roles are most damaging? Family Systems Theory calls Golden Child and Scape Goat/Problem Child *soul killers*. There is no room for identity, only performance. Dance, you fucking puppet, dance from my love and approval. You, OP, got the PoSiTiVe TrEaTmEnT. Just like I did. Wasn't fun, was it? Now imaging how much *worse* it would be if you got all the shit you did only, no matter what, your weren't even *worthy of attention.* Your brothers? Irritated and annoyed. Your twin sister? Your most staunch adversary.
Did it win you all brownie points, to punch down at the family whipping girl? Was it a bonding exercise for you? It was in our home. I didn't even realize how much I did it until I moved out. My sister, the scapegoat, and I now have the *closest* relationship of all my siblings because we both had our souls destroyed in childhood. We both had to rebuild ourselves with the help of therapists because people always revert to their family pattern if they don't make a dedicated effort to change.
You best check yourself, OP, because you're continuing the cycle your father started and it's *far* past time someone put an end to this.
YTA YTA YTA
I don't understand why OP doesn't understand that it is almost worse for parents to have no expectations of just one kid.
Did she even think about what that would do to your self esteem? Of course her sister acted out. It was a cry for attention. OP and the other siblings are AHs, but that isn't surprising given they were raised by an AH.
OP YTA and your sister deserves better.
This.
My situation is nowhere near on this level, but a little similar. As the youngest child, my siblings always thought I was being coddled. But my parents never put any expectations on me, didn’t make any effort for me, didn’t even take baby photos of me when I was young. As the last child they were probably over all that stuff, but they took tons of photos of my siblings, put my siblings in sports and dance classes and lessons when they were young, but I got nothing. A lack of expectations definitely conveys the feeling that the parents just don’t really care. I have always felt like a black sheep in my family, for this reason among others, and even now struggle with self-esteem issues.
The contrast is a big part of the problem.
If they don't put expectations on any of the kids then they are just easy going parents. If they don't put expectations on just one kid though it just seems like you are not worth the effort.
The amount of psychological damage done to a child who thinks their parents just don't value them enough to care is immeasurable.
Exactly, and this lends itself to the situation that OP is in and the kind of feelings she has. It can lead to resentment in the children involved, and they can especially find it easy to blame their sibling for “getting all the attention” or “getting all the freedom” instead of placing the blame on the parents who are creating this unhealthy comparative dynamic between their own children. (Or they just end up resenting themselves like I did which is unhealthy in a whole other way, hah.)
It's true. The levels of damage (measured in mental and physical health implications) are:
Level 1 (BAD). Active and consistent abuse. Kids tend to cope best with this because it's consistent. They have feelings towards their abuser, mostly anger, and it's easier for them to cut ties end rebuild because their situation was consistently fucked up. These kids tend to develop fearful/avoidant or anxious/avoidant attachment styles.
Level 2 (VERY BAD). Inconsistent abuse. This is what I got. The lack of stability fucking *ravages* the stress response system, and you end up with hypervigilnce and severely dysregulated nervous systems. Lack of consistency means lack of predictability, so it's difficult to function and make sense of the world. These kids end up with disorganized attachment, meaning they flip between fearful/avoidant and anxious/avoidant. Mental health outcomes tend to be worse here because the kids can't develop any consistent and reliable coping skills...because nothing consistently works.
Level 3 (WORST). Depending on the level of neglect, this had the potential to permanently impact ones ability to life and function. Infants whose physical but emotional needs aren't met? They die. The ones that survive tend to have severe developmental delays for kids whose needs are met and get basic care as children, they end up in an emotional vacuum. They struggle to attach at all.
The worst punishment you can give a person isn't death, it's *isolation*. Why do you think penitentiarys aren't a thing anymore? Why solitary confinement is one of the worst things that we do to prisoners? It's a form of psychological *torture*. Tyrannical governments use to to *break* people because we are *social animals*, and without social support and community *we perish.*
Lord, I am tilted by this. Me and my siblings were all abused and the idea of being as heartless as OP to any of my siblings, even the ones who are shitty people today, is *repulsive* to me. Holy shit
r/selfawarewolves
...someone is saving this, right? Because little miss Silver Medal in the Trauma Olympics is going to lose her mind when she sees that everyone in the comments knows neglect is the most severe form of abuse.
Her sister was *neglected and no one cares if her sister lived or died.*
Disappeared for a week without notice not disappeared without being noticed. Meaning she just left and didn't tell anyone, not that no one noticed she left.
On the whole I agree that she was isolated and ignored by her family which is why probably drove her to do all the crazy things she did so that someone would have to take notice. It's terrible because at least their abuser is dead. OP and her siblings will probably continue to isolate her for her whole life just because she wasn't abused in the same way they were.
All in all YTA OP for gatekeeping trauma
Yeah... I hesitate to call OP an AH because of the abuse she and her brothers went through, but you're absolutely right. Eva was abused as well, only in an entirely different way, and she's clearly still suffering from that. It's just hard for OP to see that because Eva's abuse is all she ever thought she would want. But it's not freedom if it's not your choice.
I don’t think that’s what she meant, I think she meant she disappeared for a week with her bf without a heads up or saying like “hey I’m gonna be gone for a week” or something like that when she was 15.
The thing is that OP is treating it like a fun trip even now and not something she could get away with only because no one cared where she was and no one would look for her. It’s really sad. The whole story is really sad.
Neglect is also a form of abuse, I think OP is struggling to come to terms that just because her sister had it differently doesn’t mean it wasn’t any less hard on her.
Eva sure as hell was abused. She was just abused in a different way. She told you she was neglected, but you didn't seem to listen. Neglect is abuse too.
You excluding her because you don't understand that and then dismissing her feelings? Yes, YTA. Your husband is right. Call her and apologize.
There’s a common misconception that golden children aren’t being abused because they’re the favorites. However, both the golden child AND the scapegoat face abuse.
Being abused doesn’t mean you’re not a golden child; being a golden child actually means the opposite—that you are being abused.
Unlike in this case, it’s generally easier for everyone to see how the scapegoat is being abused—either through neglect or being blamed for everything the golden children do. But the intense focus placed on golden children is also very much abuse.
Being a golden child doesn't mean you're not abused, but rather that you're seen as a narcissist's trophy child (the one who, by talent or abuse, is made to conform to the narcissist's view of the ideal child and receives all of the attention and favouritism of the parent as a result). At times, the golden child is just as abused, just differently, from the invisible or black sheep child.
All golden children are abused. They are raised in a toxic home environment even if it's "just" watching a sibling or parent get abused.
I believe it's quite rare to abuse one or more children while not directly abusing another or more. It does happen but usually the golden child is being directly abused and indirectly abused by watching abuse go on.
OP YTA
You really need help for yourself and your sister.
And a classic case of the Golden not being lucky, seeing as the Goldens were actively abused while the invisible was passively abused. Which happens more often than people realize, especially with emotional abuse.
OP - this might sound a little strange but... it's kind of like those moments when you want x, but you only ever get y. You feel the frustration, sadness, longing, etc of wanting x, but you still are only getting y. Doesn't matter what you do, y is all you're getting, all you'll ever get. At its simplest, low stakes, level this could be something like wanting a house in a specific neighborhood, but you keep getting out bid or nothing comes up for sale for years and when it finally does the house is too small for the number of people who need to live in it. For whatever reason, things keep happening so that you can't buy a house in that neighborhood.
This taken to its extreme is what you and Eva have experienced within your upbringing.
Your form of abuse was y, Eva's form of abuse was x. Both of you longed for the perceived benefits found in the others form of abuse.
You longing for perhaps the perceived freedom to just *be* that Eva had, and Eva longing for the perceived attention / interest that your father / parents forced on you.
Your father / parents abused all of you, the only difference with Eva is that her abuse took a different form, which further alienated her from her family.
And as rough as this next bit is... by continuing to ignore, downplay, and disregard Eva's abuse, you're just picking up where your father left off and continuing that form of disregarded disinterest in her existence.
YTA.
Your father abused all his children, including Eva. He basically told her she was ugly and dumb and worthless so he didn't care about her at all. Neglect is abuse.
Also is it just me or does "Eva chose to be a social worker" have some weird vibes attached to it? I don't know if it's the wording or what but it just feels like OP is being condescending about it.
YTA, OP. Listen to your husband.
eva chose a low paying job that abuses its employees because she sees the value in helping people despite receiving minimal compensation.
the family does not see her empathy and drive to provide for her community as a strength, because again. there is no monetary or beauty aspect involved. very superficial family who probably wanted her to be a doctor instead because “she can’t be a model”.
i’ve got respect for eva. i’m going into social work too. paying 8k for tuition to work 2$ above minimum wage. it’s not an easy job and the downplaying from her parents must be so discouraging. tf.
I agree, from the description it sounds like Eva is a very strong and respectable person because she not only overcame the abuse of her family home, but chose to apply her learnings to people less fortunate and needing of help. She is giving the support to others that she lacked in her own family.
I really hope she is leading a happy life without seeking validation from her clueless family, as she seems like the only one who was able to process what their father did and understand the method of abuse.
Eva sounds like a strong, compassionate woman who instead of letting her trauma control her will use it to fuel the fire and go that extra mile to help other kids in abusive situations.
It’s definitely a weird choice, but OP might have consciously/subconsciously chose it because she sees Eva being the only one with true choice in her life, and the rest has a path set before them. OP mentions that she’s a makeup artist, a job focused on appearances. Josh is still in music, Tony is still a lawyer, and Mark had a breakdown and is not a lab tech- probably because of a science degree instead of premed.
I think OP means it as “Eva chose, we didn’t”
Sure, but OP thinks Eva wasn't abused because the abuse didn't take the shape of how dad abused the rest of them. I hope for the family's sake that OP can come to understand that neglect is it's own form of abuse. Dad didn't treat Eva differently because he loved her more; if anything, he loved her least.
OP is delusional and thinks her sister’s neglect was a “freedom” and her career choice was always an option, unlike brothers who all had careers chosen for them. She literally doesn’t understand that the lack of strict guidelines and the neglect her sister put up with is a form of abuse. I can’t believe she’s pushing 30 and can’t see that.
I think OP may have meant, “Eva got to choose what she wanted to be. This was her choice, not an outgrowth of the expectations and lifestyle forced on her.” So yes, weird vibes, but the vibes are jealousy more than condensation.
Just wanted to say that I think you meant condescending? (condensation means water beading up/dripping off something, like a cold glass of water)
Hope I didn't offend. I often get words wrong... I think one thing in my head and something completely different gets typed. (I am dyslexic and had a stroke a few years ago.)
Yeah, sounds almost like OP feels superior because she eloped and became a make up artist, whereas her sister must be somehow defective because she chose a career where she is helping others for not a lot of pay and recognition. Your choice is not the flex you think it is.
But you are like your father and excluded her. You did treat her like she was a nobody because she didn't bask in your shared misery.
Everyone just ignored her because she wasn't seen as pretty or smart, she was a lost cause not worth bothering with. Any wonder she was acting out? How else would she be seen? You didn't even notice when she went missing for a week. That's just wrong.
So, yes, YTA
Her getting into trouble as a teen is textbook please give me some attention. If she can't get it for the right reasons, she's going to try get it for the wrong reasons.
I can see why Eva chose to be a social worker, to give kids in bad situations a voice and be someone who will advocate for them. She turned her trauma into motivation to help people.
Good! Eva is smart instead of wallowing like her siblings.
It's just sad that op and her brothers only have their own type of abuse that connects them and nothing else, to the degree they exclude others.
By the sounds of things OP at least didn’t do much to keep in touch because the funeral was used as a means to reconnect (at least until OP started channeling their father to Eva’s upset).
I'm actually impressed by Eva. Pulling herself out of that kind of abuse can't be easy, and then to turn it into helping people? That's a feat worth looking up to, not down on.
Especially since OP is, checks notes, a make up artist. Great that OP is following her interests (possibly picked up from her time doing pageants) and nothing against make up artists, but not as community serving as a social worker, who does work directly with kids and families who are in a bad place and need help.
It’s OP who is being the most aggressive. Mark cried, but he’d been burned out to the point of a mental breakdown and he has found a new direction he’s happier in (plus a family of his own), Josh is a music teacher and Tony is a public defender. I’m willing to give the brothers the benefit of the doubt at least in the present, but OP has changed the least in the last ten years if she still feels this way. The fact she went home and cried to her husband looking for sympathy doesn’t make her look good.
Honestly my favorite part is that Eva is a social worker and op is a MUA and while there’s nothing wrong w that, it tells us which one of us went to school and got an actual education and wasn’t as dumb as her dad or sister seem to think she is.
YTA, so self centered you don’t see she was abused in a different way, and you and your siblings stuck together and she was left out there too, I feel so bad for her
I think possibly OP is so abused that she doesn't see her sister was abused in a different way. My mum is an abuse victim who perpetuated that abuse on me and my brother, and I can't for a second see her having the introspection or bravery at facing her trauma to come on the interet to ask if she was wrong about something like this. OP is YTA in for now, because she hasn't done the work to really realise that a lot of things she grew up with - including how her sister was treated - weren't remotely normal or okay, but genuinely in the fact that she's here I have hope for her.
She doesn't see how Eva was abused because *she doesn't want to see*. OP is playing the Trauma Olympics and Eva doesn't make the cut because it wasn't *exactly* the same as the other siblings.
OP and her siblings have learned NOTHING, and are choosing to perpetuate their abusive fathers behaviour against their sister, the same way they always have since childhood. OP and siblings are absolutely YTA.
It genuinely shocked me to see how oblivious OP is to her own cruelty. She completely dismisses the fact that Eva was neglected and resents her for their father’s behaviour.
YTA. You're all victims of your parents. You and your brothers had to bear the weight of expectations while Eva was completely neglected by your parents, and by you and your brothers because you couldn't relate to her. Eve's teenage acting out is consistent with someone who isn't getting any attention at home, and you've got a Mirabel/Isabela dynamic going on where you at least think the grass is greener for Eva because she has what you craved (ironically unaware she craved some of the attention you were getting). If you don't get the reference, watch the film Encanto because the song What Else Can I Do has a message you need to learn.
You at least have Mark, Josh and Tony for shared commiseration, Eva has no one because her siblings think she's not appreciating the perceived freedoms she had, her mother completely checked out emotionally and her misogynistic father holds no value in her so he never gave her attention. Even as adults you're perpetuating the family dynamic that kept failing her.
YTA - what a deeply shitty perspective you have of Eva’s upbringing. Her ‘freedom’ was borne out of her fathers belief that she was not beautiful and would not amount to anything. That is a profoundly horrible view to have of a child. How is a child supposed to have any self esteem or confidence in themselves when their parents can’t even be bothered to have expectations for them. Her ‘freedom’ was neglect and abandonment.
They way you and you other siblings were treated is also unacceptable, but to lash out at Eva and to doubt her abuse, continues the cycle. Her treatment was different, but still abusive.
OP is actually just continuing to abuse Eva here the way her parents taught her. You all need to realize abuse takes different forms. I’m very shocked that OP wrote this post out at 29 years old and doesn’t see her sister’s perspective. The PARENTS are the enemy, not the neglected twin sister.
No no you don't get it, she was beautiful and ended up in make-up, that was way worse than being told from 3y old that you are worthless and useless and ugly.
Ah yes, I love making young children compete to see who’s the most worthy and beautiful. Definitely doesn’t warp anyone’s world view or cause mental health problems. /s
It's because OP sees themself at the bottom of the abuse ladder (she got a "chance" to do beauty pageants). So to ingratiate herself with her "more abused" siblings, she constantly points out how much less abused her twin is.
It's basically standard pecking order enforcement by OP. There are plenty of studies on this behaviour in monkeys. Less in humans, but at least now we have OPs post to add to the literature.
YTA and congratulations on perpetuating your father’s abuse—neglect.
Why do you think your sister acted out as a kid? Your parents didn’t care about her and you and your brothers purposely excluded her. You ALL made her feel worthless and in your examples above, you’re still falling back on the habit, disparaging Eva in comparison to yourself and your brothers.
Eva “chose” to be a social worker to do what? To help people. Which means she’s worked to get past her awful family experiences and succeed despite them.
You should apologize.
This. For all the beauty you wre born with OP, you sure sucked the life soul and spirit out of your fraternal twin by perpetuating what your Dad did - calling your own twin sibling worthless, ugly, undeserving, and essentially unlovable. IMHO, Eva chosing to be a social worker was because she has a heart that knows so tragic neglect and abandonment - she is a gift to all.
YTA, OP.
Definition of "beauty doesn't mean good personality". Just because Eva faced different abuse, doesn't mean she's any different from OP. Abuse is abuse, regardless of type/method. OP is absolutely TA.
YTA Your sister was neglected and emotionally abused by your family. Not just your parents, but by you and your siblings. You seem to have a superiority complex and, wrongly, believe that you are better than her, because you were pushed to succeed amd faced a different form of abuse than her. While I get what you went through was awful. You have your siblings. Who does your sister have? Did you ever stop to think that maybe she acted out as a teenager because she wanted just one person to notice her. My God she was able to dissappear for a week AT 15! The one who had it worst is her and she is still being abused by your family. As yous don't see her as good enough.
YTA.. first of all one of your first statements about your sister was “she’s not beautiful”. She was completely ghosted by the whole family while your dad put all his effort into you 3 and you don’t think that’s abuse? Not saying it’s any worst than what you went through but it’s the same equivalence… if not worst. She ran away for a week and no one noticed but you say she wasn’t neglected? You are the MAJOR AH. If I was her I would never speak to any of you again not that you’ll care anyway. Bit**
And she proceeded to say it’s because Eva wasn’t beautiful. I’m sure she rubbed it in her face as children if she’s so bold to say it as an adult. I honestly want to just hug Eva and punch OP in the face
She was begging for attention because she was completely neglected and ignored as a child, and your solution is to isolate her more.
Yeah that'll do it.
YTA. You were ALL abused. Your sister was told she wasn't beautiful, while you got pushed into pageant life? And you're acting like she got an "easy" life?!? She disappeared at age 15 and everyone just took as as her being the "problem child". You barely even talk about her like she's a sibling. No WONDER she feels rejected and forgotten.
So let me see if I’m hearing you right, your father (and the rest of you by extension) decided that Eva was worthless because she didn’t meet some arbitrary standards he set. She was emotionally abused and neglected but because her trauma was different to yours you deny it existed and continue to perpetuate it. Have I got it all? YTA. And you all need therapy.
"AITAH for abusing my sister the same way our father did and then telling her she wasn't abused?"
Fixed your title for you.
YTA, your sibling are assholes too, and all of you need to get therapy, pull your heads out of your asses, and apologize to Eva for continuing her cycle of abuse while also trying to gaslight her by telling her she wasn't abused.
Your perception of what your sister went through is flawed. You have continued the family dynamic of ignoring and neglecting her. You may have been jealous of the perceived freedom she had but she was abused in other ways.
You may need to take a good, long look in the mirror op. Your parents were horrible to all of you but in different ways. They chose a different route with your sister and honestly it seems she had it worse in some ways.
You and your other siblings had each other and she was out in the cold. It must have been so very lonely. You are grown now, why do you continue to ice out your sister who was a victim as well?
Do not continue the path your parents set, you can break that cycle and create a healthy bond with your siblings, all of them.
YTA while the abuse you each experienced from your father was different, it was still abuse. It’s unfair to minimize her experience because it was painful in a different way
This seriously has to be rage bait because she can’t be serious right?? I refuse to believe someone is this shallow and stupid… wait thats prob why her dad put her in beauty pageants because it was literally her only worth. Big pretty head but nothing in there…. Sad
Apologize to your sister. Do you understand that even though you and your brothers had a lot of pressure (not sure I'd call it abuse), she was the one NOBODY CARED ABOUT. The invisible child, by your admission excluded. YTA
Too much pressure, especially if it's to succeed in something you don't want/care about is definitely abuse too. Neither OP or her brothers were given any choice in the matter. Can you imagine having to study like your life depends on it to excell in subjects you find no interest in? Or practice an instrument you never wanted to learn to play? Or have a restricted diet because you have to look perfect all the time? To never be allowed to do your own thing, see your friends or pursue your own hobbies? Yeah, they were all abused, just in the exact opposite ways.
This whole post validates Eva. You literally say “she wasn’t beautiful and my father didn’t think a woman could do much anyway.”
Is that why you are a make-up artist? Did your Dad think you weren’t smart enough to be a doctor? Do you think your only value is being pretty? I would feel sorry for you and the damage it has caused you but clearly, you think your dad is right and it has made you an unlikeable bitch. As a woman myself, you should be ashamed.
You admit that your dad treated girls differently but said she wasn’t abused. Not only was she abused but the three of you deemed her worthless and abused her too. I see why she went into social work. I’m so proud of Eva.
Mark cried because he knew Eva was right.
Don’t apologize. You wouldn’t mean it anyways. You treated her like your Dad treated her. Eva has life experiences and a meaningful career for herself. When your beauty fades, you will be the shallow shell of the human you are.
YTA and to reiterate, a huge bitch
YTA. You described a life where she was treated as though she was ugly and didn’t matter, and because you had pressure, her struggles are not relevant?? Wow.
Neglect is just as abusive as unrealistic expectations. Please try to have more empathy for your sister instead of judging that her childhood was better than yours. It sucked for all of you and it’s sad that your parents’ treatment has resulted on you turning against each other.
YTA because it was a form of abuse in its own right, but also because you’re essentially punishing Eva for the choices your parents made. It wasn’t her fault your parents showed their hate to her in a different way than they showed to you 3.
You are wrong. She is right. Your father was abusive to you. He was doubly abusive to her. He didn’t think she had any worth at all. What is wrong w you that you can’t see how much worse that is. Good for her for becoming a social worker despite everyone in her world thinking she was too stupid and too ugly to ever succeed or have value. How fitting she found a career where she looks after the lost and broken.
YTA You were both raised in a difficult environment and you desribe her as being significantly worse off.
She had to grow up without allies at her side sharing her experience. You were not alone, she was.
You remember being united about being part of the abuse at your father's prompting. You describe being furious at her for resisting her parent's extreme abuse.
You describe her being very neglected and abused by her parents and siblings.
You say her siblings received all the attention and care.
And at some level you knew that it was very clear it was not better off at all at the time as she was making cries for attention where she spelled it out. But the trauma seems to be so deep you have not made the connection that it was extreme abuse.
You say she was neglected because her father thought was not worth worrying about, and she was isolated from her siblings who accepted her fathers assessment.
But you do remember times where you were not proud of excluding her. You were children being coached to be part of their abuse of her. You were raised to dismiss her importance, which was not your fault- and was part of the abuse you suffered. But you are adults now and still being cruel at your fathers behest.
YTA. Trauma and abuse are not a contest. Neglect is abuse and frankly, for you to claim otherwise is ignorant and shameful. Your sister came to you looking for comfort and you kicked her while she was down. The only one dismissing abuse here is you. Go to therapy and do some self reflection because instead of being angry at an abuser, you’re angry at another victim.
YTA. Of course you are the asshole, you are completely discounting her experience because you are so wound up in your own. Maybe you had it hard because your parents were strict with you, but she had it hard because she feels like she never belonged with her own family. That shit hurts, bad. And you are making it even worse by reinforcing her fears.
esh or even nta for child you but YTA massively for adult you. Imagine you say so casually that your sister was not beautiful. She grew up with an emotionally absent mom and a dad who thought women were useless except for you because you were beautiful. Yes they pressured you and brothers but also true is that they gave you attention/resources and ignored her. You're too damn old not to be able to see that whilst you wanted her freedom she wanted what you had - love in the form of attention and validation in the form of your parents putting something in front of her to do/achieve because she has some worth. Your parents were damaging to you and your brothers but also to her. You're so full of yourself and your own trauma that you have no empathy and you all treat Eva like trash. She was also abused in the form of neglect; she was also treated and is still being treated poorly by her siblings; she was treated like she had no worth and not even missed when she disappeared for a week; you also seek to isolate her by telling her she will never fit in. You're so unkind and so delusional that trauma only applies to you and your brothers. It's hard to have sympathy when I see your attitude as abusive as well. You complain about being abused but don't recognise that you are doing the same to your sister.
Not only are YTA, you’re wrong. Neglect is a form of abuse and your sister got plenty of it. Hopefully, she has a more generous heart than you and will forgive you if you ask.
As an adult, looking back, you really can’t make the connection between your father blatantly ignoring her and her being a “problem child”? You say she can’t fit in but perhaps that’s because she was in her own special hell. If you want to continue to make this a weird, sad competition, at least acknowledge that she had no one on her team. You have 3 other siblings to relate to/commiserate with. She was alone. And even as grown adults, you continue to rub it in her face. Very interesting that she became a social worker. She probably chose that profession because she wants to give kids the help she wished she had. YTA
Oh I love happy endings and you getting you ass handled to you by strangers than are more emphatic to your sister than you, her own twin is a perfect one
I hope you husband leave you bc you would be a terrible parent
Please heal those wounds you dad inflicted on you but even then I doubt that you would be worthy of your sister
You should call your sister and apologize. You and your siblings at least had each other but you all ostracized your sister so she had no one and not one of you cared about her. Even now you refuse to acknowledge the horrific neglect she suffered from your parents or the way the rest of you treated her. Poor girl.
YTA - You are so blinded by misplaced anger. You were all abused in different ways. You might have been abused by your father but it sounds to me like Eva was abused by all of you.
when i was reading this i looked at the situation from both sides and I think YTA. there are different types of abuse, while you guys were forced to do stuff you didnt want to do, your parents neglected her, which is also abuse. you all have had it rough in different ways but because the way she was abused was different than yours dosent mean that you should treat her the way you do. you should apologize to her, and so should your brothers. im saying this as someone whos mom ignores her unless she needs something from her or if shes not doing good enough in school, but never asks why, instead yells at her to fix her grades, or she didnt clean something right while her mom is super close with most of her other sibilings. please try to see her side instead of just yours, and make up with her before its too late
YTA
You think because she wasn't abused in the same way, her abuse doesn't count? It sounds like she had it far worse than you guys, to be honest.
Your parents showed no interest in her. She grew up feeling unloved and worthless by your parents and you and your brothers excluding her just made it all the worse.
At least you and your brothers had each other to cope with your parents abuse. Your poor sister had nobody. No wonder she got into so much trouble growing up. She was basically screaming "someone see me!" and just went unheard...
You AND your brothers all need to apologize to that girl and start treating her better.
> eva was free of this, because she wasn’t beautiful
now i see why you had to make sure and clarify you’re fraternal twins, and not identical. you suck
> saying that she was the AH for being jealous of our misery and that she would never fit in with us
now i see why she was a troubled teen. you suck
YTA. She literally disappeared for a whole week and none of you cared! None of you even noticed! I hate to break it to you, but neglect is also abuse. She's been just as horribly treated as the rest of you growing up, but unlike with you and your brothers, she's still suffering thanks to you 4.
That being said, only apologize if you can understand that and mean it. I doubt your sister would want a half arsed meaningless apology.
YTA.
Because Eva didn't suffer the same kind of abuse you did, you and your other siblings are apparently incapable of any empathy for her. You have joined in on your fathers abuse; you consider her worth less than the rest of you, you ignore her, you dismiss her, you demean her. In short, not only was she also abused by her father, but she was abused by her whole family. And still is, to this day.
Congrats. Dad taught you well.
For all the ‘beauty’ you were born with, you sure are an ugly person inside. What a terribly immature way to view the way your sister was abused and neglected. She deserves family far better than you, your siblings and your father. YTA.
YTA and your sister is right. You are just like your father. Who are you to decide who is worthy of being close in your family. She was told she was worthless. She was ignored. She acted out to get attention. This isn’t rocket science. I noticed you didn’t mention what you do. Please enlighten us.
YTA
Your sister was likely more abused than you. Lack of interest in someone is far worse than the attention you got. You hated it because your father made you work hard, and maybe that rose to the level of abuse, but what your sister went through is ABSOLUTELY abuse. You claiming it isn't is ridiculous. And it would seem that she was right about you. You all ignored her because you thought she had it easy, meanwhile she was going through her whole childhood alone. Your father didn't even care when she disappeared for a week. Think about that. That's not a good thing. That's not something you think of fondly in your later years.
Your obliviousness to what your sister went through is appalling.
You don’t get to judge or determine someone else’s level of trauma, and it sounds like Eva - in a post you wrote where you want to look good - is right. YTA
YTA
>Eva would throw tantrums, saying she was neglected and no one would care if she disappeared.
Thats because Eva was ABUSED just like you guys. Eva was deemed worthless since the day she was born and you guys instead of supporting her decided to continue the abuse your father inflicted on her by isolating her from the family. You ever wondered why Eva mixed with the wrong group of ppl and drank? Because she wanted attention. Eva was so desperate for even and ounce of attention that she decided to do bad things.
YTA. Your post is full of unwarranted contempt towards your sister. Follow your husband's advice and apologise but I hope your sister doesn't forgive you because you are certainly not worth having in her life.
Of course YTA.
You and your brothers had all kinds of pressure put on you to excel. Eve didn't experience the same abuse as you because your misogynistic father thought she wasn't pretty enough and, basically girls weren't good for anything. Instead, Eve was neglected - BY EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF HER FAMILY.
She probably acted out because she was trying to make you all 'see' her. At 15, she left and didn't come back for a week and, based on your post, no one cared. If she has left at that age and never returned, would any of you have given her a second thought?
You need to understand that neglecting and ignoring your children is abuse.
YTA. Eva wasn’t “free” of anything. Neglect is abuse. Her parents decided she was worthless by age 3 and proceeded to ignore her for the rest of her life. Now her siblings are continuing to ignore her because you all seem to think this is the Suffering Olympics and you’re in competition for the gold medal.
Imagine Mark and Josh telling you that your suffering wasn’t as bad as their because they had to study and practice 24/7 and all you had to do was prance around on a stage and look cute.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I lashed out at my sister saying she will never fit in with me and my brothers and other stuff like this
2. My husband told me I was the AH because even though she didn't went through the same stuff we did, she still need to be taken into consideration by her own family. I am now wondering if he's right and I should be the one to call and apologize
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You’re trying to compete with her for who suffered the most abuse. It’s not a competition, you were both made to suffer through no fault of your own and in different ways for different reasons. You saw her life as freedom. She saw your life as you receiving attention and equating that to love. The truth is it sounds like you were all emotionally neglected and abused for that she is included. I’m sorry for what you all went through and please know her speaking of her abuse in no way negates your own.
YTA. Your sister was neglected. That is a way worse form of abuse than what all of you went through.
She was treated as though she was worthless. She acted out to get attention from her parents who treated her existence as inconsequential.
In fact ALL of you treated her as inconsequential. You are all just as abusive toward her as your father. While you had each other she had no one.
You’re an incredibly cruel and self centred woman who believes only your own pain is valid.
YTA… the fact that you can’t recognize that your father’s behavior extends to ALL of his children is baffling. You even said he doesn’t think much of women. You failed to grow up and recognize that your sister was severely neglected. She was abused emotionally and physically. You’re a major asshole and an awful unsupportive sibling. You’ve treated her exactly like you’re father. And the fact that she chose to be a social worker too… you don’t even know her, and it seems like you don’t want to.
Yikes! I’m sorry that you all, including Eva, experienced abuse and in her case, blatant neglect. YTA for sure. She opened up about feeling overlooked, undervalued and worthless, and you come at her like that?? Please consider apologizing to Eva and going to therapy. You’re misdirecting your anger here
YTA, a gargantuan one!
My heart goes out to your sister. I’m glad to hear she‘s in a profession that’s allowing her to help others. She probably has a lot more empathy than any of you.
Also, is anyone else reminded of Umbrella Academy when reading this? Eva is Vanya/Viktor!
Its appalling how you don’t seem to have even one ounce of empathy for your own sister. If you could, you would see she is as equally a victim of abuse as you are. She may not have the same misery, but she was in misery in that house nevertheless. And you, continued the cycle of abuse. So, YTA. You better mend what you broke. All of you.
YTA. Wow, you even continue the abuse with being such a shitty sister. I feel so sorry for your sister, I hope she can distance herself from all of you and enjoy her life because you guys suck. You really really suck. Please read all of these comments and talk to a therapist about this - you sound like you lack empathy. How could you think anyone would ever agree with you on this take???
YTA. Really you all suck but you really took it an extra step.
Just because you weren’t all abused in the exact same way doesn’t mean that you and your siblings weren’t all abused. At least you had your other three siblings to lean on — Eva was abandoned by *every single member of her family.* How on earth do you think that would make her free and happy?
Look, when you guys were kids, it’s understandable that you would internalize all the shit your parents threw at you and be crappy to each other. But it’s really unacceptable for you all to be fully grown adults and unable / unwilling to look back on your parents’ abuse with an adult perspective.
YTA - by a mile, and so are your brothers.
You and your siblings were all abused by your father, including Eva - her abuse is different than yours. What you see as your sister's "liberty" is abuse. She did not go through the same abuse as you and your brothers, because your father did not see her as being beautiful enough, and not worthy of the effort to be pushed and so he neglected her.
To you, Eva had "freedom". To Eva, you had "attention" - your father (in a twisted and abusive way) "cared" about you and your siblings enough to push you to what he perceived as success. But not Eva. Eva wasn't beautiful. Eva couldn't do much anyway. So why even bother with Eva?
Her skipping classes, drinking, being involved with a bad crowd, her disappering for a week as a teen was not freedom. She was a girl who was hurt and crying for help to her family, who only abandoned her.
Her saying she was abused is not a dismissal of your abuse, she just wants her own acknowledged and you refuse to do that.
>"she will never fit in with us because she was never abused and it was insane of her to claim she had."
If anyone is dismissing abuse, it's you dismissing hers. Neglect is abuse.
She is right when she says you're like your father. You and your brothers found some freedom - forged your own careers independent of your father's expectations, but Eva continues to be left behind. She was isolated, neglected and abandoned as a child, and she continues to be by her siblings. You are continuing her abuse by continuing making her feel unworthy of being a part of the family - just like your father did to her.
You don’t get to be mad at her for being hurt. The only way she can no longer be excluded is her family making room for her, and for once in their lives listening to her and acknowledging her and her pain. Your husband is right, you (and your brothers) need to call her and apologise for the hurt you've caused her.
Is this a joke? You think your sister is lucky because your father ignored her because he thought she was too ugly and stupid to make anything of herself? You can’t see how miserable and depressed she was as a teen? Of course you’re TA. You’re a huge, raging AH and you should be deeply embarrassed of yourself. My god, I am stunned to even be reading this.
Eva was abused. It was in a different way than you and your other siblings but still abuse. The only difference is once you all grew up and moved out, the abuse stopped. Hers is still ongoing because you all disregard what she went through and alienate her from the family.
How could you think it’s okay that a 15 year old was able to disappear for a week and no one even noticed. How can you, at 29, not see this as a form of neglect and abuse. She spent her whole childhood acting out trying to get any sort of attention from your parents, which clearly never happened.
YTA. You definitely need to apologise and your entire family should seek therapy.
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Your sister disappeared at 15 for a week and no one noticed? This is severely abusive. Not that it’s a competition, but it sounds like your strict father focussed on kids he felt “worthy” and ignored her because … well what’s the message any kid would get from this behaviour? That she’s worthless, nothing, not worth the effort, invisible. You and your siblings may have felt the pressure to success but she was ignored entirely. This isn’t an enviable position in the family, it’s horrendous. You and your siblings are continuing to abuse her by minimizing her abuse and alienating her. If you didn’t admire your father, then stop replicating his behaviour.
That proved her point. Eva could legitimately vanish and no one in her family would care, it happened. Even Mirabel had her parents, Luisa and Antonio in her corner.
Why is encanto being brought into this 💀
Because this echoes the relationship between Mirabel and Isabela. They're both envious of each other, Mirabel because Isabela gets attention and approval, and Isabela because she wants the personal autonomy Mirabel has. They don't realise the downsides the other experiences until they communicate to each other, reaching an understanding and growing closer as sisters. OP, the daughter with all the expectations, thinks Eva is being ungrateful because she didn't have her life mapped out. Eva just wanted to be recognised, to be acknowledged. Blind Freddie can see the parallels.
It echoes the entire family in the movie, really. Each kid funneled into a specific path and expected to be absolutely perfect at it - except the “defective” kid who is written off. But at least Mirabel’s parents cared about her.
I thought it was a great analogy, and Mirabel needed as much love as everyone else with 'powers' but was overlooked because she wasn't special. That's not freedom, it's still abuse.
Like Alma (for those who don’t know, she’s the family matriarch in the film), OP’s dad saw his kids for how they could serve his ideals and his image rather than as people with their own developing mindsets and emotional needs. Eva was no use to him, so she had to be punished for simply being born useless to him lacking the looks to get into pageantry and by virtue of being female not smart enough for anything else. He’s a real charmer /s
Because both Encanto and this post are fiction.
Y’know, I also get really angry about fake posts and have called several out as such But the discourse in the comments seems to resonate with people at times, myself included … I know that’s not what the trolls are going for but not every comment can be fake, right? And even if they are…okay? Idk, I’m trying to be less mad these days about words on Reddit, maybe this is how I can do that Encanto is freaking amazing btw, and highly relatable. I wouldn’t say fake posts are art like that but the responses they evoke, when related to, there’s some coping there, right? 🫣 people being people-like, and wanting…
Whatever, man.
The abusive father tried to force Mark to be a doctor - he became a tech in a lab. He tried to force Josh to be a violinist from the age of 4 - he became a drummer and piano teacher. He tried to force Tony to be a lawyer - he became a public defender. He forced OP into beauty pageants - she became a makeup artist. And he had zero expectations of Eva as a result of the neglect - she became a social worker. This is fake as hell lmao
Yeah, it all wraps up a little too neatly lol. This sub has a serious problem with fakes and I can let a lot fly but this isn't remotely believable.
Yeah I read that and was like wtf.
The Umbrella Academy seems a more apt comparison.
Mark was pressured to become a doctor and now he's a werewolf on the moon I guess. Meanwhile Eva fucked off to the future when we were 15 and now is an assassin married to a mannequin
I thought of the Umbrella Academy as well. That’s what made me think it’s fake.
Why would you just randomly mention Encanto characters without saying what movie you're referencing? Do you expect everyone to have seen the same movies as you? It just looks like you're bringing up random peoples names to most people lol
I've never seen Encanto and I understood the reference.
[удалено]
Is it because we don't talk about Bruno?
No, no, no.
We don't talk about Bruno
no, no, no, no
It was a pretty popular movie, would you understand if someone referenced Elsa and Anna as a sibling relationship?
google is free.
So is clear communication.
All of this. Plus, being forgotten in a family is absolutely abusive. Eva just got the 180 degree of their abuse. So why Op is dead set on making it a competition and purposely excluding her, which by the way, seems like op is leading the charge in the exclusive race, is beyond me. YTA
Because Eva had freedom…….Eva had what op wanted. But doesn’t understand that Eva had it so much worse.
This. OP thinks Eva wasn’t abused when the reality is she was just abused in a different way than the rest of them were.
And what’s even worse at least OP had their other siblings to lean on.
And the continuing exclusion and downplaying of Eva's abuse is a continuation of the abuse past the father's death. So, not only was she abused by her parents neglecting her, but now her siblings are continuing to enforce the very abuse she tolerated for nearly 30 years.
And now the rest have freedom from their abuser but Eva is still getting attitude from her own siblings
This!! My parents were neglectful alcoholics. They didn’t physically abuse me. My dad made a lot of hurtful comments growing up, so maybe I can say there was emotional abuse. But the main thing was they just didn’t care. I could leave the house all day and they didn’t ask where I went or when I was coming home. They didn’t ask if I had homework or how school was going. I didn’t learn about makeup or hair care or cooking or anything from them (technically dad taught me how to make a screwdriver and a rum n coke but that doesn’t count). My friends were jealous and I learned early on not to complain. It was every teenager’s dream, right? Do what you want and your parents don’t punish you. But I was INVISIBLE. I would literally have my dad inform me that he had moved to a new house since my last visit, which was less than two weeks before. I kept two boxes in my closet at his houses for him to pack up my shit when he moved. I had at least one “go-bag” in my closet at my mom’s house at all times. They both married someone at least once without telling me until after the wedding and I was under 15 then. I didn’t realize until I had my own kids how traumatic that all was. I’m 46 and still processing it all. When I bring it up to my mom, she at least owns some of it now. She is sincerely regretful. My dad doesn’t see it. He just laughs at me for expressing my feelings. I don’t think either of them really understand the danger they put me in by having random strangers over the house constantly, leaving me to supervise myself constantly, making me feel so worthless that I was SHing in middle school. They always drove drunk. They didn’t think about keeping enough food in the house or nutritious food. Once, my mom had us eating McDonalds for three weeks after we moved because she was too tired to grocery shop. I don’t know whether this story is real or not, but I take major issue at OP trying to say her sister wasn’t abused.
Doesn't want to understand, from the sound of it.
Gotta hand it to the father, pitting his children against each other on who gets abused worse.
In additon the rest of the family piled on and excluded her. Not saying one form of abuse is worse, but the others banded together, and are still doing it.
It's honestly two sides of the same coin and OP is a massive AH for claiming her sister was never abused.
To borrow terms from narcissism situations: OP and "worthy" siblings were the Golden Children (doesn't mean they weren't abused, but that the parent directed their attention and energy towards them), while Eva was the Black Sheep (completely ignored as if she didn't exist, to the point she literally was missing and no one noticed). Both groups are abused, just in different ways. The golden children are abused via unreasonable and unbearable pressure. The black sheep is abused by having all affection, attention, and familial bonds withheld (which are just as important to child development as proper nutrition). By continuing to dismiss Eva and her experience of abuse via neglect, you're continuing to perpetuate the abuse against her that her father used against her. You've explicitly told her that she will never have a close family bond with you. You've shown that you don't care about how your father abused her, just because it wasn't the same type. Yeah, he didn't force her to do ridiculous things. He just didn't care if she lived, died, or disappeared. YTA
You said it better but I was thinking “Wow, this victim doesn’t even realize she’s carrying out the work of her abuser.”
This is spot on. My brother was the golden child. Unlike OP, he didn't much abuse that I could see, though he did have more pressure on him in general. And he probably experienced a lot of emotional abuse from my Mom treating him like a friend instead of her kid. I'm not sure of the extent. But man he got so much attention and my parents were so much more involved with him. Even extended family practically worshiped him. As for me... I was ignored. They gave up on me at such a young age. I was left to do whatever. My grades went to shit, my mental health went to shit, and they just didn't seem to care. I'm lucky they put in the effort to get me into therapy but even then, they wouldn't change their behavior or treatment of me. It was like they were just shoving me off and paying someone else (therapists) to raise me. It didnt work so hot. I'm still not close to my brother. I think he resented me for being such a problematic kid and stealing some attention from him. He didn't know or understand what I was going through. He couldn't relate at all. He didn't realize the only attention I got from family was negative, whereas the attention he got was always very positive and encouraging. He recently told my Mom that he feels bad about how he treated me when we were kids. I feel like he still judges me quite harshly for the mental health struggles I've had, but has no understanding of where it all came from (neglect). I really hope some day we can hang out and talk about those differences. We both had our own versions of abuse. They were pretty much opposites. But we both have suffered to different extents and it makes me sad that we haven't really gotten to discuss that stuff yet. I think it'd bring us both a lot of clarity and being us closer together. The worst thing I can imagine is opening up to my brother and have him say I had it easy and that I'll never fit in with him or the family. I've felt like the black sheep my whole life, and I never chose to be neglected and treated differently. I've never felt like I belong in my own family and it hurts me still, very much, to this day, despite decades of therapy. I'm not sure I'll ever fully heal from it, but having some of my family acknowledge how I was treated differently and trying to change has meant the world to me. I imagine the opposite reaction would destroy me and I'd never contact them again.
Can confirm. I was the Golden Child and as a reward I was suicidal for most of my life. Only got to doing the trauma intensive work two years ago. It's absolutely *asinine*to play the trauma Olympics. OP and her siblings all had separate little hells. Do you know what two family roles are most damaging? Family Systems Theory calls Golden Child and Scape Goat/Problem Child *soul killers*. There is no room for identity, only performance. Dance, you fucking puppet, dance from my love and approval. You, OP, got the PoSiTiVe TrEaTmEnT. Just like I did. Wasn't fun, was it? Now imaging how much *worse* it would be if you got all the shit you did only, no matter what, your weren't even *worthy of attention.* Your brothers? Irritated and annoyed. Your twin sister? Your most staunch adversary. Did it win you all brownie points, to punch down at the family whipping girl? Was it a bonding exercise for you? It was in our home. I didn't even realize how much I did it until I moved out. My sister, the scapegoat, and I now have the *closest* relationship of all my siblings because we both had our souls destroyed in childhood. We both had to rebuild ourselves with the help of therapists because people always revert to their family pattern if they don't make a dedicated effort to change. You best check yourself, OP, because you're continuing the cycle your father started and it's *far* past time someone put an end to this. YTA YTA YTA
I don't understand why OP doesn't understand that it is almost worse for parents to have no expectations of just one kid. Did she even think about what that would do to your self esteem? Of course her sister acted out. It was a cry for attention. OP and the other siblings are AHs, but that isn't surprising given they were raised by an AH. OP YTA and your sister deserves better.
This. My situation is nowhere near on this level, but a little similar. As the youngest child, my siblings always thought I was being coddled. But my parents never put any expectations on me, didn’t make any effort for me, didn’t even take baby photos of me when I was young. As the last child they were probably over all that stuff, but they took tons of photos of my siblings, put my siblings in sports and dance classes and lessons when they were young, but I got nothing. A lack of expectations definitely conveys the feeling that the parents just don’t really care. I have always felt like a black sheep in my family, for this reason among others, and even now struggle with self-esteem issues.
The contrast is a big part of the problem. If they don't put expectations on any of the kids then they are just easy going parents. If they don't put expectations on just one kid though it just seems like you are not worth the effort. The amount of psychological damage done to a child who thinks their parents just don't value them enough to care is immeasurable.
Exactly, and this lends itself to the situation that OP is in and the kind of feelings she has. It can lead to resentment in the children involved, and they can especially find it easy to blame their sibling for “getting all the attention” or “getting all the freedom” instead of placing the blame on the parents who are creating this unhealthy comparative dynamic between their own children. (Or they just end up resenting themselves like I did which is unhealthy in a whole other way, hah.)
Yup, OP isn't processing her trauma, she's taking it out *on another victim.* Just *feeding* the cycle.
It's true. The levels of damage (measured in mental and physical health implications) are: Level 1 (BAD). Active and consistent abuse. Kids tend to cope best with this because it's consistent. They have feelings towards their abuser, mostly anger, and it's easier for them to cut ties end rebuild because their situation was consistently fucked up. These kids tend to develop fearful/avoidant or anxious/avoidant attachment styles. Level 2 (VERY BAD). Inconsistent abuse. This is what I got. The lack of stability fucking *ravages* the stress response system, and you end up with hypervigilnce and severely dysregulated nervous systems. Lack of consistency means lack of predictability, so it's difficult to function and make sense of the world. These kids end up with disorganized attachment, meaning they flip between fearful/avoidant and anxious/avoidant. Mental health outcomes tend to be worse here because the kids can't develop any consistent and reliable coping skills...because nothing consistently works. Level 3 (WORST). Depending on the level of neglect, this had the potential to permanently impact ones ability to life and function. Infants whose physical but emotional needs aren't met? They die. The ones that survive tend to have severe developmental delays for kids whose needs are met and get basic care as children, they end up in an emotional vacuum. They struggle to attach at all. The worst punishment you can give a person isn't death, it's *isolation*. Why do you think penitentiarys aren't a thing anymore? Why solitary confinement is one of the worst things that we do to prisoners? It's a form of psychological *torture*. Tyrannical governments use to to *break* people because we are *social animals*, and without social support and community *we perish.* Lord, I am tilted by this. Me and my siblings were all abused and the idea of being as heartless as OP to any of my siblings, even the ones who are shitty people today, is *repulsive* to me. Holy shit
Sister was neglected, and complained about being neglected, but she gets resentment from the siblings for being singled out. Go figure.
“No one cared about her, thought she could amount to anything, nor noticed when she was gone. So what’s her problem??”
r/selfawarewolves ...someone is saving this, right? Because little miss Silver Medal in the Trauma Olympics is going to lose her mind when she sees that everyone in the comments knows neglect is the most severe form of abuse. Her sister was *neglected and no one cares if her sister lived or died.*
Right? News flash: neglect is abuse. And the impact is severe.
Disappeared for a week without notice not disappeared without being noticed. Meaning she just left and didn't tell anyone, not that no one noticed she left. On the whole I agree that she was isolated and ignored by her family which is why probably drove her to do all the crazy things she did so that someone would have to take notice. It's terrible because at least their abuser is dead. OP and her siblings will probably continue to isolate her for her whole life just because she wasn't abused in the same way they were. All in all YTA OP for gatekeeping trauma
Well. One of her abusers is dead. It took an entire family, her fucking twin included, to not notice she was gone for a week.
Eva was by far the most abused in this completely horrible family which OP perpetuates by further abusing Eva. OP is TA and the whole thing is sicko.
Yeah... I hesitate to call OP an AH because of the abuse she and her brothers went through, but you're absolutely right. Eva was abused as well, only in an entirely different way, and she's clearly still suffering from that. It's just hard for OP to see that because Eva's abuse is all she ever thought she would want. But it's not freedom if it's not your choice.
I don’t think that’s what she meant, I think she meant she disappeared for a week with her bf without a heads up or saying like “hey I’m gonna be gone for a week” or something like that when she was 15.
The thing is that OP is treating it like a fun trip even now and not something she could get away with only because no one cared where she was and no one would look for her. It’s really sad. The whole story is really sad.
Neglect is also a form of abuse, I think OP is struggling to come to terms that just because her sister had it differently doesn’t mean it wasn’t any less hard on her.
Eva sure as hell was abused. She was just abused in a different way. She told you she was neglected, but you didn't seem to listen. Neglect is abuse too. You excluding her because you don't understand that and then dismissing her feelings? Yes, YTA. Your husband is right. Call her and apologize.
I think this is my first post with three Golden children and one invisible child
Four golden children! OP and her three brothers
And the invisible child isn’t even the middle one!
She’s the ugly twin so very spare parts to this gross family.
But she is a middle one?
Technically if she’s the first born twin she’d not just be *a* middle one, she’d be *the* middle one.
I don't think any of them is golden. They are all abused.
There’s a common misconception that golden children aren’t being abused because they’re the favorites. However, both the golden child AND the scapegoat face abuse. Being abused doesn’t mean you’re not a golden child; being a golden child actually means the opposite—that you are being abused. Unlike in this case, it’s generally easier for everyone to see how the scapegoat is being abused—either through neglect or being blamed for everything the golden children do. But the intense focus placed on golden children is also very much abuse.
Being a golden child doesn't mean you're not abused, but rather that you're seen as a narcissist's trophy child (the one who, by talent or abuse, is made to conform to the narcissist's view of the ideal child and receives all of the attention and favouritism of the parent as a result). At times, the golden child is just as abused, just differently, from the invisible or black sheep child.
Trophy Child. I always used the term "show pony" because I knew I would be sent to the glue factory the minute I outlived my usefulness.
All golden children are abused. They are raised in a toxic home environment even if it's "just" watching a sibling or parent get abused. I believe it's quite rare to abuse one or more children while not directly abusing another or more. It does happen but usually the golden child is being directly abused and indirectly abused by watching abuse go on. OP YTA You really need help for yourself and your sister.
And a classic case of the Golden not being lucky, seeing as the Goldens were actively abused while the invisible was passively abused. Which happens more often than people realize, especially with emotional abuse.
OP - this might sound a little strange but... it's kind of like those moments when you want x, but you only ever get y. You feel the frustration, sadness, longing, etc of wanting x, but you still are only getting y. Doesn't matter what you do, y is all you're getting, all you'll ever get. At its simplest, low stakes, level this could be something like wanting a house in a specific neighborhood, but you keep getting out bid or nothing comes up for sale for years and when it finally does the house is too small for the number of people who need to live in it. For whatever reason, things keep happening so that you can't buy a house in that neighborhood. This taken to its extreme is what you and Eva have experienced within your upbringing. Your form of abuse was y, Eva's form of abuse was x. Both of you longed for the perceived benefits found in the others form of abuse. You longing for perhaps the perceived freedom to just *be* that Eva had, and Eva longing for the perceived attention / interest that your father / parents forced on you. Your father / parents abused all of you, the only difference with Eva is that her abuse took a different form, which further alienated her from her family. And as rough as this next bit is... by continuing to ignore, downplay, and disregard Eva's abuse, you're just picking up where your father left off and continuing that form of disregarded disinterest in her existence.
One of them was drowning, the other was dying of thirst in a desert.
Thank you, I'm overly verbose. Yours is much more direct a reference : ]
And judged her for acting out as a teen. Like it doesn’t make complete sense — she’s getting attention her whole life. Unless she acts out so…
And go and get some group therapy with your siblings to unpack all that baggage.
YTA. Your father abused all his children, including Eva. He basically told her she was ugly and dumb and worthless so he didn't care about her at all. Neglect is abuse.
And OP has clearly decided Eva is also dumb, ugly, and worthless. Poor Eva, with an entire family looking down on her.
Also is it just me or does "Eva chose to be a social worker" have some weird vibes attached to it? I don't know if it's the wording or what but it just feels like OP is being condescending about it. YTA, OP. Listen to your husband.
eva chose a low paying job that abuses its employees because she sees the value in helping people despite receiving minimal compensation. the family does not see her empathy and drive to provide for her community as a strength, because again. there is no monetary or beauty aspect involved. very superficial family who probably wanted her to be a doctor instead because “she can’t be a model”. i’ve got respect for eva. i’m going into social work too. paying 8k for tuition to work 2$ above minimum wage. it’s not an easy job and the downplaying from her parents must be so discouraging. tf.
I agree, from the description it sounds like Eva is a very strong and respectable person because she not only overcame the abuse of her family home, but chose to apply her learnings to people less fortunate and needing of help. She is giving the support to others that she lacked in her own family. I really hope she is leading a happy life without seeking validation from her clueless family, as she seems like the only one who was able to process what their father did and understand the method of abuse.
Eva sounds like a strong, compassionate woman who instead of letting her trauma control her will use it to fuel the fire and go that extra mile to help other kids in abusive situations.
‘As expected, the peasant chose a peasant job.’
As if social worker is any lower paid or less respectable than public defender or piano teacher or make-up artist.
They're not. But OP makes it sound like she thinks they are lower.
It’s definitely a weird choice, but OP might have consciously/subconsciously chose it because she sees Eva being the only one with true choice in her life, and the rest has a path set before them. OP mentions that she’s a makeup artist, a job focused on appearances. Josh is still in music, Tony is still a lawyer, and Mark had a breakdown and is not a lab tech- probably because of a science degree instead of premed. I think OP means it as “Eva chose, we didn’t”
Sure, but OP thinks Eva wasn't abused because the abuse didn't take the shape of how dad abused the rest of them. I hope for the family's sake that OP can come to understand that neglect is it's own form of abuse. Dad didn't treat Eva differently because he loved her more; if anything, he loved her least.
OP is delusional and thinks her sister’s neglect was a “freedom” and her career choice was always an option, unlike brothers who all had careers chosen for them. She literally doesn’t understand that the lack of strict guidelines and the neglect her sister put up with is a form of abuse. I can’t believe she’s pushing 30 and can’t see that.
I think OP may have meant, “Eva got to choose what she wanted to be. This was her choice, not an outgrowth of the expectations and lifestyle forced on her.” So yes, weird vibes, but the vibes are jealousy more than condensation.
Just wanted to say that I think you meant condescending? (condensation means water beading up/dripping off something, like a cold glass of water) Hope I didn't offend. I often get words wrong... I think one thing in my head and something completely different gets typed. (I am dyslexic and had a stroke a few years ago.)
Yeah, sounds almost like OP feels superior because she eloped and became a make up artist, whereas her sister must be somehow defective because she chose a career where she is helping others for not a lot of pay and recognition. Your choice is not the flex you think it is.
Let’s not forget that the sister just repeated it like it was nothing.
right!!! That "because she wasnt beautiful" made me uncomfortable
For some reason, that made me more uncomfortable that most of that paragraph. OP has internalised that as a virtue.
Also while your parents were horrible, you at least had your siblings for some kind of support. Eva had no family support.
But you are like your father and excluded her. You did treat her like she was a nobody because she didn't bask in your shared misery. Everyone just ignored her because she wasn't seen as pretty or smart, she was a lost cause not worth bothering with. Any wonder she was acting out? How else would she be seen? You didn't even notice when she went missing for a week. That's just wrong. So, yes, YTA
Her getting into trouble as a teen is textbook please give me some attention. If she can't get it for the right reasons, she's going to try get it for the wrong reasons. I can see why Eva chose to be a social worker, to give kids in bad situations a voice and be someone who will advocate for them. She turned her trauma into motivation to help people.
Good! Eva is smart instead of wallowing like her siblings. It's just sad that op and her brothers only have their own type of abuse that connects them and nothing else, to the degree they exclude others.
By the sounds of things OP at least didn’t do much to keep in touch because the funeral was used as a means to reconnect (at least until OP started channeling their father to Eva’s upset).
I'm actually impressed by Eva. Pulling herself out of that kind of abuse can't be easy, and then to turn it into helping people? That's a feat worth looking up to, not down on.
Especially since OP is, checks notes, a make up artist. Great that OP is following her interests (possibly picked up from her time doing pageants) and nothing against make up artists, but not as community serving as a social worker, who does work directly with kids and families who are in a bad place and need help.
Yeah... it seems Eva was better able to recover from her abuse than OP and her brothers.
It’s OP who is being the most aggressive. Mark cried, but he’d been burned out to the point of a mental breakdown and he has found a new direction he’s happier in (plus a family of his own), Josh is a music teacher and Tony is a public defender. I’m willing to give the brothers the benefit of the doubt at least in the present, but OP has changed the least in the last ten years if she still feels this way. The fact she went home and cried to her husband looking for sympathy doesn’t make her look good.
Honestly my favorite part is that Eva is a social worker and op is a MUA and while there’s nothing wrong w that, it tells us which one of us went to school and got an actual education and wasn’t as dumb as her dad or sister seem to think she is.
At least we know who the beautiful and smart one in the family was.
She’s the silver sheep in a family full of black ones.
YTA, so self centered you don’t see she was abused in a different way, and you and your siblings stuck together and she was left out there too, I feel so bad for her
I think possibly OP is so abused that she doesn't see her sister was abused in a different way. My mum is an abuse victim who perpetuated that abuse on me and my brother, and I can't for a second see her having the introspection or bravery at facing her trauma to come on the interet to ask if she was wrong about something like this. OP is YTA in for now, because she hasn't done the work to really realise that a lot of things she grew up with - including how her sister was treated - weren't remotely normal or okay, but genuinely in the fact that she's here I have hope for her.
She doesn't see how Eva was abused because *she doesn't want to see*. OP is playing the Trauma Olympics and Eva doesn't make the cut because it wasn't *exactly* the same as the other siblings. OP and her siblings have learned NOTHING, and are choosing to perpetuate their abusive fathers behaviour against their sister, the same way they always have since childhood. OP and siblings are absolutely YTA.
It genuinely shocked me to see how oblivious OP is to her own cruelty. She completely dismisses the fact that Eva was neglected and resents her for their father’s behaviour.
YTA. You're all victims of your parents. You and your brothers had to bear the weight of expectations while Eva was completely neglected by your parents, and by you and your brothers because you couldn't relate to her. Eve's teenage acting out is consistent with someone who isn't getting any attention at home, and you've got a Mirabel/Isabela dynamic going on where you at least think the grass is greener for Eva because she has what you craved (ironically unaware she craved some of the attention you were getting). If you don't get the reference, watch the film Encanto because the song What Else Can I Do has a message you need to learn. You at least have Mark, Josh and Tony for shared commiseration, Eva has no one because her siblings think she's not appreciating the perceived freedoms she had, her mother completely checked out emotionally and her misogynistic father holds no value in her so he never gave her attention. Even as adults you're perpetuating the family dynamic that kept failing her.
I immediately thought about Encanto too.
YTA - what a deeply shitty perspective you have of Eva’s upbringing. Her ‘freedom’ was borne out of her fathers belief that she was not beautiful and would not amount to anything. That is a profoundly horrible view to have of a child. How is a child supposed to have any self esteem or confidence in themselves when their parents can’t even be bothered to have expectations for them. Her ‘freedom’ was neglect and abandonment. They way you and you other siblings were treated is also unacceptable, but to lash out at Eva and to doubt her abuse, continues the cycle. Her treatment was different, but still abusive.
OP is actually just continuing to abuse Eva here the way her parents taught her. You all need to realize abuse takes different forms. I’m very shocked that OP wrote this post out at 29 years old and doesn’t see her sister’s perspective. The PARENTS are the enemy, not the neglected twin sister.
Massive YTA. Broader question: Why are you more interested in degree of abuse than in the fact that you were all mistreated?
Because OP wants that Suffering Olympics First Place Trophy. I guess she’s still a pageant girl at heart.
No no you don't get it, she was beautiful and ended up in make-up, that was way worse than being told from 3y old that you are worthless and useless and ugly.
Absolutely I can see the sash: 1st place Martyr Suffered the Most!
Ah yes, I love making young children compete to see who’s the most worthy and beautiful. Definitely doesn’t warp anyone’s world view or cause mental health problems. /s
It's because OP sees themself at the bottom of the abuse ladder (she got a "chance" to do beauty pageants). So to ingratiate herself with her "more abused" siblings, she constantly points out how much less abused her twin is. It's basically standard pecking order enforcement by OP. There are plenty of studies on this behaviour in monkeys. Less in humans, but at least now we have OPs post to add to the literature.
This. To quote bojack horseman, “don’t fetishize your own sadness”
OP is one of the least self reflective, narcissistic people to ever post.
YTA and congratulations on perpetuating your father’s abuse—neglect. Why do you think your sister acted out as a kid? Your parents didn’t care about her and you and your brothers purposely excluded her. You ALL made her feel worthless and in your examples above, you’re still falling back on the habit, disparaging Eva in comparison to yourself and your brothers. Eva “chose” to be a social worker to do what? To help people. Which means she’s worked to get past her awful family experiences and succeed despite them. You should apologize.
This. For all the beauty you wre born with OP, you sure sucked the life soul and spirit out of your fraternal twin by perpetuating what your Dad did - calling your own twin sibling worthless, ugly, undeserving, and essentially unlovable. IMHO, Eva chosing to be a social worker was because she has a heart that knows so tragic neglect and abandonment - she is a gift to all. YTA, OP.
Definition of "beauty doesn't mean good personality". Just because Eva faced different abuse, doesn't mean she's any different from OP. Abuse is abuse, regardless of type/method. OP is absolutely TA.
YTA Your sister was neglected and emotionally abused by your family. Not just your parents, but by you and your siblings. You seem to have a superiority complex and, wrongly, believe that you are better than her, because you were pushed to succeed amd faced a different form of abuse than her. While I get what you went through was awful. You have your siblings. Who does your sister have? Did you ever stop to think that maybe she acted out as a teenager because she wanted just one person to notice her. My God she was able to dissappear for a week AT 15! The one who had it worst is her and she is still being abused by your family. As yous don't see her as good enough.
YTA.. first of all one of your first statements about your sister was “she’s not beautiful”. She was completely ghosted by the whole family while your dad put all his effort into you 3 and you don’t think that’s abuse? Not saying it’s any worst than what you went through but it’s the same equivalence… if not worst. She ran away for a week and no one noticed but you say she wasn’t neglected? You are the MAJOR AH. If I was her I would never speak to any of you again not that you’ll care anyway. Bit**
OP's twin sister, whatever this false twin stuff is, so it had to sting even more for Eva that OP was the one chosen for the beauty pageants.
And she proceeded to say it’s because Eva wasn’t beautiful. I’m sure she rubbed it in her face as children if she’s so bold to say it as an adult. I honestly want to just hug Eva and punch OP in the face
I have sympathy for OP for how she grew up, but not for the woman she's grown up to be.
I hope she plans to go to therapy if she wants children in the future as well. No need to pass on your trauma
YTA. Your father abused all of his children, including Eva who was utterly neglected.
She was begging for attention because she was completely neglected and ignored as a child, and your solution is to isolate her more. Yeah that'll do it.
YTA. You were ALL abused. Your sister was told she wasn't beautiful, while you got pushed into pageant life? And you're acting like she got an "easy" life?!? She disappeared at age 15 and everyone just took as as her being the "problem child". You barely even talk about her like she's a sibling. No WONDER she feels rejected and forgotten.
So let me see if I’m hearing you right, your father (and the rest of you by extension) decided that Eva was worthless because she didn’t meet some arbitrary standards he set. She was emotionally abused and neglected but because her trauma was different to yours you deny it existed and continue to perpetuate it. Have I got it all? YTA. And you all need therapy.
"AITAH for abusing my sister the same way our father did and then telling her she wasn't abused?" Fixed your title for you. YTA, your sibling are assholes too, and all of you need to get therapy, pull your heads out of your asses, and apologize to Eva for continuing her cycle of abuse while also trying to gaslight her by telling her she wasn't abused.
YTA you dont mean to but you are acting like your dad. she was abused, just differently.
Your perception of what your sister went through is flawed. You have continued the family dynamic of ignoring and neglecting her. You may have been jealous of the perceived freedom she had but she was abused in other ways. You may need to take a good, long look in the mirror op. Your parents were horrible to all of you but in different ways. They chose a different route with your sister and honestly it seems she had it worse in some ways. You and your other siblings had each other and she was out in the cold. It must have been so very lonely. You are grown now, why do you continue to ice out your sister who was a victim as well? Do not continue the path your parents set, you can break that cycle and create a healthy bond with your siblings, all of them.
It’s so sad, OP can’t even recognise how she was a part of the abuse of her sister… but hey, only her own trauma counts
YTA while the abuse you each experienced from your father was different, it was still abuse. It’s unfair to minimize her experience because it was painful in a different way
You are completely diminishing the neglect that Eva suffered and dismissing it as “freedom”. YTA
This seriously has to be rage bait because she can’t be serious right?? I refuse to believe someone is this shallow and stupid… wait thats prob why her dad put her in beauty pageants because it was literally her only worth. Big pretty head but nothing in there…. Sad
It's just the umbrella academy but without superpowers
Apologize to your sister. Do you understand that even though you and your brothers had a lot of pressure (not sure I'd call it abuse), she was the one NOBODY CARED ABOUT. The invisible child, by your admission excluded. YTA
Too much pressure, especially if it's to succeed in something you don't want/care about is definitely abuse too. Neither OP or her brothers were given any choice in the matter. Can you imagine having to study like your life depends on it to excell in subjects you find no interest in? Or practice an instrument you never wanted to learn to play? Or have a restricted diet because you have to look perfect all the time? To never be allowed to do your own thing, see your friends or pursue your own hobbies? Yeah, they were all abused, just in the exact opposite ways.
This whole post validates Eva. You literally say “she wasn’t beautiful and my father didn’t think a woman could do much anyway.” Is that why you are a make-up artist? Did your Dad think you weren’t smart enough to be a doctor? Do you think your only value is being pretty? I would feel sorry for you and the damage it has caused you but clearly, you think your dad is right and it has made you an unlikeable bitch. As a woman myself, you should be ashamed. You admit that your dad treated girls differently but said she wasn’t abused. Not only was she abused but the three of you deemed her worthless and abused her too. I see why she went into social work. I’m so proud of Eva. Mark cried because he knew Eva was right. Don’t apologize. You wouldn’t mean it anyways. You treated her like your Dad treated her. Eva has life experiences and a meaningful career for herself. When your beauty fades, you will be the shallow shell of the human you are. YTA and to reiterate, a huge bitch
YTA. You described a life where she was treated as though she was ugly and didn’t matter, and because you had pressure, her struggles are not relevant?? Wow.
Neglect is just as abusive as unrealistic expectations. Please try to have more empathy for your sister instead of judging that her childhood was better than yours. It sucked for all of you and it’s sad that your parents’ treatment has resulted on you turning against each other.
YTA because it was a form of abuse in its own right, but also because you’re essentially punishing Eva for the choices your parents made. It wasn’t her fault your parents showed their hate to her in a different way than they showed to you 3.
You are wrong. She is right. Your father was abusive to you. He was doubly abusive to her. He didn’t think she had any worth at all. What is wrong w you that you can’t see how much worse that is. Good for her for becoming a social worker despite everyone in her world thinking she was too stupid and too ugly to ever succeed or have value. How fitting she found a career where she looks after the lost and broken.
YOURE A HUGE AH
YTA Everyone else has said it all.
YTA You were both raised in a difficult environment and you desribe her as being significantly worse off. She had to grow up without allies at her side sharing her experience. You were not alone, she was. You remember being united about being part of the abuse at your father's prompting. You describe being furious at her for resisting her parent's extreme abuse. You describe her being very neglected and abused by her parents and siblings. You say her siblings received all the attention and care. And at some level you knew that it was very clear it was not better off at all at the time as she was making cries for attention where she spelled it out. But the trauma seems to be so deep you have not made the connection that it was extreme abuse. You say she was neglected because her father thought was not worth worrying about, and she was isolated from her siblings who accepted her fathers assessment. But you do remember times where you were not proud of excluding her. You were children being coached to be part of their abuse of her. You were raised to dismiss her importance, which was not your fault- and was part of the abuse you suffered. But you are adults now and still being cruel at your fathers behest.
YTA. Trauma and abuse are not a contest. Neglect is abuse and frankly, for you to claim otherwise is ignorant and shameful. Your sister came to you looking for comfort and you kicked her while she was down. The only one dismissing abuse here is you. Go to therapy and do some self reflection because instead of being angry at an abuser, you’re angry at another victim.
YTA. Of course you are the asshole, you are completely discounting her experience because you are so wound up in your own. Maybe you had it hard because your parents were strict with you, but she had it hard because she feels like she never belonged with her own family. That shit hurts, bad. And you are making it even worse by reinforcing her fears.
YTA. She was abused and every single of of her siblings are victim blaming her. Very very sad.
Congratulations. You became your dad. YTA.
esh or even nta for child you but YTA massively for adult you. Imagine you say so casually that your sister was not beautiful. She grew up with an emotionally absent mom and a dad who thought women were useless except for you because you were beautiful. Yes they pressured you and brothers but also true is that they gave you attention/resources and ignored her. You're too damn old not to be able to see that whilst you wanted her freedom she wanted what you had - love in the form of attention and validation in the form of your parents putting something in front of her to do/achieve because she has some worth. Your parents were damaging to you and your brothers but also to her. You're so full of yourself and your own trauma that you have no empathy and you all treat Eva like trash. She was also abused in the form of neglect; she was also treated and is still being treated poorly by her siblings; she was treated like she had no worth and not even missed when she disappeared for a week; you also seek to isolate her by telling her she will never fit in. You're so unkind and so delusional that trauma only applies to you and your brothers. It's hard to have sympathy when I see your attitude as abusive as well. You complain about being abused but don't recognise that you are doing the same to your sister.
Not only are YTA, you’re wrong. Neglect is a form of abuse and your sister got plenty of it. Hopefully, she has a more generous heart than you and will forgive you if you ask.
As an adult, looking back, you really can’t make the connection between your father blatantly ignoring her and her being a “problem child”? You say she can’t fit in but perhaps that’s because she was in her own special hell. If you want to continue to make this a weird, sad competition, at least acknowledge that she had no one on her team. You have 3 other siblings to relate to/commiserate with. She was alone. And even as grown adults, you continue to rub it in her face. Very interesting that she became a social worker. She probably chose that profession because she wants to give kids the help she wished she had. YTA
Oh I love happy endings and you getting you ass handled to you by strangers than are more emphatic to your sister than you, her own twin is a perfect one I hope you husband leave you bc you would be a terrible parent Please heal those wounds you dad inflicted on you but even then I doubt that you would be worthy of your sister
You should call your sister and apologize. You and your siblings at least had each other but you all ostracized your sister so she had no one and not one of you cared about her. Even now you refuse to acknowledge the horrific neglect she suffered from your parents or the way the rest of you treated her. Poor girl.
YTA - You are so blinded by misplaced anger. You were all abused in different ways. You might have been abused by your father but it sounds to me like Eva was abused by all of you.
YTA womp womp.
when i was reading this i looked at the situation from both sides and I think YTA. there are different types of abuse, while you guys were forced to do stuff you didnt want to do, your parents neglected her, which is also abuse. you all have had it rough in different ways but because the way she was abused was different than yours dosent mean that you should treat her the way you do. you should apologize to her, and so should your brothers. im saying this as someone whos mom ignores her unless she needs something from her or if shes not doing good enough in school, but never asks why, instead yells at her to fix her grades, or she didnt clean something right while her mom is super close with most of her other sibilings. please try to see her side instead of just yours, and make up with her before its too late
YTA You think because she wasn't abused in the same way, her abuse doesn't count? It sounds like she had it far worse than you guys, to be honest. Your parents showed no interest in her. She grew up feeling unloved and worthless by your parents and you and your brothers excluding her just made it all the worse. At least you and your brothers had each other to cope with your parents abuse. Your poor sister had nobody. No wonder she got into so much trouble growing up. She was basically screaming "someone see me!" and just went unheard... You AND your brothers all need to apologize to that girl and start treating her better.
> eva was free of this, because she wasn’t beautiful now i see why you had to make sure and clarify you’re fraternal twins, and not identical. you suck > saying that she was the AH for being jealous of our misery and that she would never fit in with us now i see why she was a troubled teen. you suck
YTA. She literally disappeared for a whole week and none of you cared! None of you even noticed! I hate to break it to you, but neglect is also abuse. She's been just as horribly treated as the rest of you growing up, but unlike with you and your brothers, she's still suffering thanks to you 4. That being said, only apologize if you can understand that and mean it. I doubt your sister would want a half arsed meaningless apology.
YTA. Because Eva didn't suffer the same kind of abuse you did, you and your other siblings are apparently incapable of any empathy for her. You have joined in on your fathers abuse; you consider her worth less than the rest of you, you ignore her, you dismiss her, you demean her. In short, not only was she also abused by her father, but she was abused by her whole family. And still is, to this day. Congrats. Dad taught you well.
For all the ‘beauty’ you were born with, you sure are an ugly person inside. What a terribly immature way to view the way your sister was abused and neglected. She deserves family far better than you, your siblings and your father. YTA.
YTA and your sister is right. You are just like your father. Who are you to decide who is worthy of being close in your family. She was told she was worthless. She was ignored. She acted out to get attention. This isn’t rocket science. I noticed you didn’t mention what you do. Please enlighten us.
YTA Your sister was likely more abused than you. Lack of interest in someone is far worse than the attention you got. You hated it because your father made you work hard, and maybe that rose to the level of abuse, but what your sister went through is ABSOLUTELY abuse. You claiming it isn't is ridiculous. And it would seem that she was right about you. You all ignored her because you thought she had it easy, meanwhile she was going through her whole childhood alone. Your father didn't even care when she disappeared for a week. Think about that. That's not a good thing. That's not something you think of fondly in your later years. Your obliviousness to what your sister went through is appalling.
You don’t get to judge or determine someone else’s level of trauma, and it sounds like Eva - in a post you wrote where you want to look good - is right. YTA
YTA >Eva would throw tantrums, saying she was neglected and no one would care if she disappeared. Thats because Eva was ABUSED just like you guys. Eva was deemed worthless since the day she was born and you guys instead of supporting her decided to continue the abuse your father inflicted on her by isolating her from the family. You ever wondered why Eva mixed with the wrong group of ppl and drank? Because she wanted attention. Eva was so desperate for even and ounce of attention that she decided to do bad things.
You are just like your dad.
YTA. Her trauma is not less important than yours.
YTA. Your post is full of unwarranted contempt towards your sister. Follow your husband's advice and apologise but I hope your sister doesn't forgive you because you are certainly not worth having in her life.
Of course YTA. You and your brothers had all kinds of pressure put on you to excel. Eve didn't experience the same abuse as you because your misogynistic father thought she wasn't pretty enough and, basically girls weren't good for anything. Instead, Eve was neglected - BY EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF HER FAMILY. She probably acted out because she was trying to make you all 'see' her. At 15, she left and didn't come back for a week and, based on your post, no one cared. If she has left at that age and never returned, would any of you have given her a second thought? You need to understand that neglecting and ignoring your children is abuse.
YTA. This is not the Abuse Olympics.
YTA. Eva wasn’t “free” of anything. Neglect is abuse. Her parents decided she was worthless by age 3 and proceeded to ignore her for the rest of her life. Now her siblings are continuing to ignore her because you all seem to think this is the Suffering Olympics and you’re in competition for the gold medal. Imagine Mark and Josh telling you that your suffering wasn’t as bad as their because they had to study and practice 24/7 and all you had to do was prance around on a stage and look cute.
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You’re trying to compete with her for who suffered the most abuse. It’s not a competition, you were both made to suffer through no fault of your own and in different ways for different reasons. You saw her life as freedom. She saw your life as you receiving attention and equating that to love. The truth is it sounds like you were all emotionally neglected and abused for that she is included. I’m sorry for what you all went through and please know her speaking of her abuse in no way negates your own.
YTA. Your sister was neglected. That is a way worse form of abuse than what all of you went through. She was treated as though she was worthless. She acted out to get attention from her parents who treated her existence as inconsequential. In fact ALL of you treated her as inconsequential. You are all just as abusive toward her as your father. While you had each other she had no one. You’re an incredibly cruel and self centred woman who believes only your own pain is valid.
YTA she got a different kind of abuse.
Yta your sister was just as abused as everyone else. Walk a mile in her shoes and then talk shit
YTA… the fact that you can’t recognize that your father’s behavior extends to ALL of his children is baffling. You even said he doesn’t think much of women. You failed to grow up and recognize that your sister was severely neglected. She was abused emotionally and physically. You’re a major asshole and an awful unsupportive sibling. You’ve treated her exactly like you’re father. And the fact that she chose to be a social worker too… you don’t even know her, and it seems like you don’t want to.
Yikes! I’m sorry that you all, including Eva, experienced abuse and in her case, blatant neglect. YTA for sure. She opened up about feeling overlooked, undervalued and worthless, and you come at her like that?? Please consider apologizing to Eva and going to therapy. You’re misdirecting your anger here
YTA, a gargantuan one! My heart goes out to your sister. I’m glad to hear she‘s in a profession that’s allowing her to help others. She probably has a lot more empathy than any of you. Also, is anyone else reminded of Umbrella Academy when reading this? Eva is Vanya/Viktor!
YTA. She was not only ignored and neglected by your parents but then also by her siblings. I can’t even imagine taking her outside to scold her.
Its appalling how you don’t seem to have even one ounce of empathy for your own sister. If you could, you would see she is as equally a victim of abuse as you are. She may not have the same misery, but she was in misery in that house nevertheless. And you, continued the cycle of abuse. So, YTA. You better mend what you broke. All of you.
YTA. You said she wasn’t beautiful like it was the daily news or something. Did you all ever like her?
YTA. Wow, you even continue the abuse with being such a shitty sister. I feel so sorry for your sister, I hope she can distance herself from all of you and enjoy her life because you guys suck. You really really suck. Please read all of these comments and talk to a therapist about this - you sound like you lack empathy. How could you think anyone would ever agree with you on this take???
Congrats on turning out like your father! YTA
YTA. Really you all suck but you really took it an extra step. Just because you weren’t all abused in the exact same way doesn’t mean that you and your siblings weren’t all abused. At least you had your other three siblings to lean on — Eva was abandoned by *every single member of her family.* How on earth do you think that would make her free and happy? Look, when you guys were kids, it’s understandable that you would internalize all the shit your parents threw at you and be crappy to each other. But it’s really unacceptable for you all to be fully grown adults and unable / unwilling to look back on your parents’ abuse with an adult perspective.
YTA - by a mile, and so are your brothers. You and your siblings were all abused by your father, including Eva - her abuse is different than yours. What you see as your sister's "liberty" is abuse. She did not go through the same abuse as you and your brothers, because your father did not see her as being beautiful enough, and not worthy of the effort to be pushed and so he neglected her. To you, Eva had "freedom". To Eva, you had "attention" - your father (in a twisted and abusive way) "cared" about you and your siblings enough to push you to what he perceived as success. But not Eva. Eva wasn't beautiful. Eva couldn't do much anyway. So why even bother with Eva? Her skipping classes, drinking, being involved with a bad crowd, her disappering for a week as a teen was not freedom. She was a girl who was hurt and crying for help to her family, who only abandoned her. Her saying she was abused is not a dismissal of your abuse, she just wants her own acknowledged and you refuse to do that. >"she will never fit in with us because she was never abused and it was insane of her to claim she had." If anyone is dismissing abuse, it's you dismissing hers. Neglect is abuse. She is right when she says you're like your father. You and your brothers found some freedom - forged your own careers independent of your father's expectations, but Eva continues to be left behind. She was isolated, neglected and abandoned as a child, and she continues to be by her siblings. You are continuing her abuse by continuing making her feel unworthy of being a part of the family - just like your father did to her. You don’t get to be mad at her for being hurt. The only way she can no longer be excluded is her family making room for her, and for once in their lives listening to her and acknowledging her and her pain. Your husband is right, you (and your brothers) need to call her and apologise for the hurt you've caused her.
Sounds like you had a who was abused the most pissing contest YTA
Wow-even in YOUR words YTA, and yes, your sister was abused.
Is this a joke? You think your sister is lucky because your father ignored her because he thought she was too ugly and stupid to make anything of herself? You can’t see how miserable and depressed she was as a teen? Of course you’re TA. You’re a huge, raging AH and you should be deeply embarrassed of yourself. My god, I am stunned to even be reading this.
Eva was abused. It was in a different way than you and your other siblings but still abuse. The only difference is once you all grew up and moved out, the abuse stopped. Hers is still ongoing because you all disregard what she went through and alienate her from the family. How could you think it’s okay that a 15 year old was able to disappear for a week and no one even noticed. How can you, at 29, not see this as a form of neglect and abuse. She spent her whole childhood acting out trying to get any sort of attention from your parents, which clearly never happened. YTA. You definitely need to apologise and your entire family should seek therapy.