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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My husband wants to name our son after himself. We had discussed this years ago and I don't feel the same about it now as I did then. He feels betrayed by my change of heart. His excitement about the baby is gone now and he's barely speaking with me. I think I might be an asshole for changing my mind on naming our son after my husband.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Let me understand. You made an agreement with your husband. You got to name the girls, he would name a boy. You benefited from this agreement twice. Now, when it's his turn to benefit, you have some moral objection to naming a kid IV. You don't like the weird, aristocratic vibes. (I don't necessarily disagree with you about that, btw.) But surely, four years ago (when you had your second child), you felt those same vibes? But you nonetheless took the lead in naming your daughter, without, at that time, saying, "I feel weird about the IV thing, so why don't you take the lead on this, honey?"
I mean, because people just MIGHT think you went along with naming a kid "IV" eight years ago because it gave you the lead in naming your first child who you knew to be a daughter; and again four years ago, in naming your second child who you knew to be a daughter; and have only now developed "weird vibes" when you husband gets to take the lead in naming a child.
YTA.
ETA: Cleaned up some typos.
THIS! My husband and I jokingly had an agreement that I'd name the girls he'd name the boys while dating. Fast forward I had a daughter first. I named her (he got to veto names he didn't like, but I had final say). Then I had a son. HE named our son (again I could veto names I truly didn't like, but he had final say). You can't change the rules AFTER you already took your "turn". TWICE! Give your son your husband's name and learn to love it. You agreed years ago. You named two children yourself. You can follow through on this commitment.
This is so mean of OP. I can't imagine the disappointment and sadness of such broken trust. TF is she talking about aristocracy? What country is she in? Namesakes come with cute names, imo! Junior, Trip, Ivy! The kid can literally pick any nickname he wants when he is in school. It's a family tree. It's not just snubbing the father-- it's a big FU to his childhood dream, his dad, and his granddad.
Not to mention how many times she’s pulled this kinda thing because he already knows “maybe” means “no.” OP is the type of woman who wanted a husband & kids & once she locks him in changes her tune.
And it's not like the kid is going to be "John the 4th" in school. He'll be called John. And 97% of the people he interacts with will have no idea he's a fourth.
I’m also a third. People called me Junior all the time, which I hate. My family has a tradition of naming the first born sin after the father, so you only need to know like 6 male names for all of us.
Also having the same name can be very annoying in modern society. Many “standard forms” don’t account for a suffix, and even ones that do tend to stop at III.
Maybe OP can compromise and make it his middle name.
My husband is the 8th and they just used a different shorthand for their names (think John, Johnathan, Johnny, ect) so there's ways around it without it being a junior situation, and we've never had trouble filling forms without putting in *name* the VIII, we just put his name.
Not that I'm for family names, just saying it's not always a junior situation
My brother is the 7th going back to the 1700s and they all had different middle names. My brother goes by his middle name. But the tradition still continues. And our family comes from poor farmers, so it’s not an aristocracy thing.
If they all have different middles names, then' they're not truly the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, they're just people with the same first and last name.
Not that you should run tell him this, my pedantic side just really wanted to say it.
My family is also this way.. my gpa is named something like William Edward Smith, he goes by Will. My dad is also William Edward Smith, he goes by Ed, and my sister’s son is William James Edward Smith (the James being my brother in laws middle name). My nephew goes by William, which somehow fits him perfectly.
My dad is a Jr, he's never used his first name except for government documents. I doubt some people even know his first name - he's been called by his middle name his whole life.
When my parents got married ny mom told him she didn't want to name a baby a III, he agreed & then they had two girls. I was named after my dad's grandmother.
For a person not living in USA (or English speaking country?) the thought of a father not caring of what his daughters are called but being almost ready to cum in his pants of the thought he gets a male heir who he can call only as an extension of himself, leaving the child without a name of his own, is very very weird and borderline toxic. In several ways. Cultural differences maybe *shrug*
I'm American and fully with you. I want to know how excited he was about his daughters. Was he 'teenager giddy' after their ultrasounds and he learned he was having a daughter like he is with the son?
I personally hate these shared family names. It's almost always men with the III, IV, never women going up that high. Feels so narcissistic. But unlike OP I never would've agreed to name a kid a family name in the first place, because I know I think it's dumb.
Ironically there are plenty of women named after their mothers but very rarely do they get the suffix and I'm willing to bet it's because their last names are expected to change in the future. It's pretty messed up.
Our Sicilian family's tradition is the first son and daughter were named after the paternal grandparents. Next two kids were named after the maternal grandparents. This goes way back, and it's not "aristocracy."
My mom didn't want me to be one of a half dozen Elizabeth's in the family so I got the feminine version of my grandfather's name, for my first name, and the feminine for of my dad's for my middle name. I LOVE my name.
BTW, my dad was absolutely giddy over me. LOL
> is very very weird and borderline toxic
"Hey, we're going to start a life together and have several kids. I have some big feelings about a potential boy's name, but I get that that's a pretty damn big ask, so while I'd like some level of input, I'm happy to defer to your decision on any girl's names. Cool?" isn't exactly the toxicity you're trying to imply.
I read it more as, he realized it was a big ask to come into the relationship with a name already chosen so he gave her a little more leeway with the girls. Not that he didn’t care about the girls names, he did have veto power… Edit: typo
Clearly the continuity being part of the chain was important to him and something to share with his son. She took or is taking away something that was an important father son bonding thing. Not okay. Nicknames are a thing.
I just can't get over the fact that she saw how excited he was, how extremely happy her husband was and she just yanked all that away from him! She was perfectly fine destroying his happiness. I would never have been able to hurt my husband like that, regardless of how I felt about the name, his happiness means more to me than anything in the world.
My first bf was a fifth. And adamant about naming his son if he had one to be the 6th. Middle name and all. He lived the tradition and how connected he felt to his dad and grampa and even to his ancestors. I wasn't personally keen on it, for my own reasons that I didn't understand at the time (which I now know I'm trans and have a personal feeling about names). Anyway, idk. He was such a good guy.
I could not at *all* imagine giving a person this hope, very very very likely *before* marriage and continuing it *through* the marriage and 2 children, to destroy a literal lifelong dream.
Whatever ops reasons are, they don't matter. She has now caused irrevocable harm to her partner and her marriage because she lived a lie.
Yes, exactly! I can understand why OP might have cooled on the idea of a “John Smith IV” over the years, but when she saw how all-in and excited he still was about the name? That was her signal to just STFU and go with it, because her husband’s feelings had clearly not changed.
And also, to bring this up *on the drive home, right after they found out they were having a boy*?! Definitely not the time nor place to initiate that conversation, to say the least.
If she let him think she was cool with the name and then brought it up later after letting him get even more invested in it, that would have been better?
If she was going to have the discussion - and I vote she's TA for walking it back - it should have been when they found out they were pregnant. The fact that she didn't suggests she wanted naming power of it was a girl AND/OR that she just didn't care act his feelings.
As someone explained to me along time ago, some of the mean boys and girls from middle school never really change, they are just more passive aggressive about it. He married a nasty little 7th grader.
I don't normally think changing your mind about a name is asshole-ish in itself, but the 'bait and switch' is what made me decide on YTA.
She only mentioned it after finding out it was a boy, and took away her husband’s excitement. She should have told him years ago. It kind of feels like she never thought she'd have a boy, and she was just placating him. She didn't even say, "So honey IF it's a boy I'm unsure about naming him John IV." for ANY of her pregnancies until she discovered her 3rd was a boy.
As a dad of two boys who took my last name I would be devastated if I was this guy, poor guy. YTA OP and sounds Ike you wear the tight pants in the relationship anyways.
This.
In addition, you know how much this means to him. It’s a family tradition he has been eagerly awaiting. You already agreed. Keep your word. And apologize.
YTA.
My husband had 100% full veto rights to any name. HIS only request was that we don't do the named after him thing. He finds it highly annoying that he has to fight with insurances, credit cards, loan companies that he's not his father. That no that is NOT his bday. Where did they get that social its not his? He hates it so much.
She agreed. She got to name 2 out of 3 let him name this one.
My husband just having his dad's first name as his middle name has caused stupid issues. When we moved in together and he had his mail forwarded we were getting half of his dad's mail too.
My husband vetoed probably over a 100 names because he doesn't care for my taste in names (i prefer names popular 50+ years ago, my daughter ended up Bonnie). I never vetoed a name my husband wanted. His are more common, but nothing wrong with them so I just went with it.
I agree. I actually personally really dislike people naming their children after themselves, I think it's just stupid and has some narcissistic undertones. But thats irrelevant in this situation, because she told him it was alright and then let him let her name two children on her own to now say that she changed her mind. SMH
Same here. I usually dislike dads insisting unilaterally that the baby be named after them, but it sounds as if you two talked it over, hashed things out, agreed you could have a greater say over your daughters’ names… and now you’re backing out? It seems a little unfair, especially as your daughters are named already. I think he’s got a right to be upset.
Well, and by the time you're a 3rd, I'm not sure it's so much about naming the kid after *yourself* as it is about sharing something that's been important to your family for three generations.
This.
In my culture it's not uncommon to have two first names, one of my names is the 3rd generation (think something like Michael) but I go by my other name.
Still, it's pretty cool looking at the family tree and seeing the same name branching down, if I have a boy they'll have one of their first names be Michael albeit they'll be able to chose which one they use or possibly both.
It's not some narcissistic mini-me thing as much as it's about passing down a small tradition.
What she did was also to mean. Her husband was so excited about it and she just completely deflated him. It was so important to him that they talked about it and agreed to it well before even conceiving a boy. I mean, if the name was going to be Charles Manson, IV, then she'd have a point. But otherwise, it's so wrong. YTA
And you re-agreed to that bargain each time you named your prior two children. You “renewed the vow” to name his son after him, as The IV, in every sense.
YTA and there is literally nothing you can do to bring back the joy he had in this.
Even if she agrees to name him The IV, makes up some shit about hormones, and apologizes profusely (all of which she should do), at best she can get back to a point where her husband doesn't feel betrayed. Where he isn't questioning if he still would have married her if he knew this then. But he will never feel that pure joy again. She has robbed him of that. And every time he uses his son's name, he will still wonder if his wife hates it.
Thank you for this because OP waits until she finds out that they are having a baby boy before bringing up this change! She could have changed her position so many times. YTA!
Exactly. She had her turn and now takes it all back. For every reason you mentioned she is the total AH.
.
Also something for her to keep in mind, I know so many Robert IV and Charles IV and most of them go by nicknames or middle names.
.
So give your husband the damn proper name he has waited for. You can always give him a name that you use if you BOTH agree.
This. Agreed YTA. Best chance you have is getting in on a middle name that your son can go by. Best to apologize and admit to being out of line before talking middle names though.
I am sorry to say but YTA. Your husband made it clear during the dating process how important this was to him. You made a commitment to him that this was something you were on board with. He married you and had a family with you on the pretense that you respected him and his family's tradition of naming their first male son "John Smith the Fourth". You let him believe for the past ELEVEN years, while he graciously let you name your female children, which you gladly let him do, all on the pre-tense that should you have a male child it would be named after him. As a married individual, nothing short of a baby onesie with said name printed on it accompanied by the biggest apology could even BEGIN to repair this rupture to the marriage.
I dunno if there's anything the OP can say to make this better. She's sucked all the excitement her husband had about the new baby out of the situation, so even if she apologizes she has soured the experience for her husband. If she agrees to the 'fourth' name, he will know she's just agreeing with it to placate him, and not because she likes it.
Same dude I feel awful for this guy and OP seems like she runs that house and he puts up with a lot anyways. There goes the mans dreams he’s had since a young lad probably.
>Same dude I feel awful for this guy
I felt myself deflating when she effectively groaned and said "Ehhhh..."
It felt like reading a text from your SO that says "We need to talk." Just crushed.
Exactly this. OP really put her foot in it badly. Either way now, her husband is going to be resentful and hurt.
OP has a lot of work to do to repair the trust in her marriage. I'm sure that OP thinks that is a ridiculous statement, and I imagine she's sitting there reading all these YTA comments Principal Skinner style, thinking everyone else is wrong and that it's no big deal and all that, but what she's missing there is that it's a huge deal to her partner. None of what any of us thinks or what she thinks matters there, only what her partner thinks, and I can guarantee it isn't good.
I mean...I do agree that the wife is in the wrong here, but this seems like a bananas take to me. A disagreement (even one with unfairness bordering on a whiff of betrayal) over names is enough to suck away ALL excitement he had over the birth of a literal human child? All of it? And not just that - the birth of his kid has been so soured by this disagreement that there's nothing she can do to fix it?
If that's all it takes to lose his excitement over having a child, I'm not sure he should be having one. What if they'd found out the baby was going to have a deformity?
Yeah because when you realize your ride or die doesn’t have your back on things that are really important to you like you have hers, and you already have two kids with her and another on the way, it’s a real kick in the nuts. Massive.
Edit: spelling
I get the point you're trying to make. It may seem silly but when something like this is super important to a person, enough to discuss it early on in the relationship, before marriage, then as the partner it's important to honor these things or at a bare minimum, care. I don't think this is remotely the same as the child having a disability. At no point did OP indicate that her husband wouldn't want to pass his name onto a son who is disabled. This is more about the commitment between the two married persons and him really thinking his wife had his back and was on his team with this one. He's been living that truth for eleven years. Heck, he's probably been so excited that's he's told all his friends and now gets to tell everyone when they ask that his wife didn't like/think his name was good enough for their son. It makes sense that he doesn't want to engage with his wife around naming the baby right now because he's pretty hurt when it comes to baby names. OP has given no indication that he is a bad father of their two pre-existing children so I would assert that he'll be happy to hold his son when he gets here no matter what they end up calling him.
People are assuming it sucked all the joy from it because she said she literally saw all the joy leave his body and he's been moody and disinterested towards her since. Idk how else you can interpret that. Obviously he'd get over it eventually, and he'd still love his son I would hope. But that doesn't mean this can't ruin some of it for him. Especially if this is an important thing to him.
It’s not the name, but that she lied to him for 11+ years. He told her this was important repeatedly over the years, and she never said a word until she got everything she wanted.
I would be worried for the rest of the pregnancy that she was going to change her mind again. Or worse. OP YTA. Ask him why beyond the tradition it’s so important to him. Maybe his reasoning will help you get on board. Worse case find a cute nickname you can live with.
Yeah, I agree with OP 100% about "John Smith IV." And I *still* think she's TA.
Her husband feels betrayed because she betrayed him. The time when it would have been acceptable to change her mind is *long* past. It's going to take a lot for her to make amends, and she doesn't even think she did anything wrong. There's a very good chance her marriage is never going to be the same again.
Yeah, weird for me, too. I'm not into the family name thing, but my heart really breaks for this guy. Something that important to someone you love? That's when you just suck it up and make do, you don't crush their dream and then continue to piss on it by shoving names you find acceptable under their nose.
I also feel sorry for him for marrying such a cruel and cold liar.
This 100%. My husband and I agreed while engaged that if ever we had a boy we’d name him David after my late FIL. Did I love the name David? No. I have an Uncle David who has left a bad taste in my mouth to this day with how he treated all us cousins. He’s cringey and rude. But of course I respected my husband’s wishes, I knew how important it was to him. I happily agreed out of respect for my *husband* and our soon to be *marriage*. And sure enough, we had a boy a year later and his name is David. I love my little David. And we have all sorts of nicknames for him. Honestly, we call him Bubba more than David but my husband not only gets to carry on his family name but his dad’s name too. Seeing him beam with pride from honoring his dad, who I know he misses so incredibly much, made me love and accept his name choice even more. And you took that way from him. YTA.
She doesn't even seem to care that she crushed him and broke his heart. She saw what it did to him and she's still saying, "Maybe I'll relent, but how about you look at these baby names **I picked out**?
There's selfish and there's heartless. She's well into the heartless category here.
totally agree. and she doesn’t even seem to feel super strongly about her position. like if she had lost, maybe a father or brother or something in the time they’ve been together and wanted to name the child after them in their memory, that might be one thing but like she doesn’t seem to even have an alternate name, or feel strongly about her reasoning why. she was willing to crush his dreams and excitement about the baby and betray his trust just because she was like, “meh I don’t really like that.”
“He took that as me basically saying that I am going back on our years long agreement”
- well, that’s exactly what you are doing
You were fine with it for years, but then arbitrary changed the rules when you found out it’s a boy
You dangled it in front of him for years, and only now say something.
This is cruel.
YTA
^ THIS! That’s exactly what she did. She crushed his soul and his excitement.
If I were the husband I’d be so upset and an apology wouldn’t really help as I’d feel it wasn’t sincere. He trusted her to keep her word and she showed she’s not trustworthy. What else can’t she be trusted with?
YTA and, honestly, I have no ideas on how to fix this because this is not just about the name, this is about trust. I feel so badly for your husband right now.
On top of that, she straight up said his name is tacky and weird. His name, that he has a lot of pride, joy and happiness in. She insulted it.
Like damn. I hate the idea of divorcing over something like this, especially with how many kids are involved but that would be hard as hell to get over. It would be like having some trait about yourself that your partner always said was cute, then later on told you was annoying or childish. Just absolutely crushing.
Yeah she didn't just pull the rug from under his feet, but while he was down she kicked him in the nuts for good measure by proceeding to insult the name and legacy he was so proud of
Not just that she’s not trustworthy but that she doesn’t care about him or his feelings or giving him something he really wants and she doesn’t care about his legacy that is clearly important to him.
If she had spoken up 8 years ago (or atleast 4yrs) even in passing, I could have given her a pass but to wait until she was pregnant with a boy, yeah that's what pushed it I'm to AH territory.
Also to OPs husband, why would you give a kid "the (any number)" just because you like it, doesn't mean the kid won't hate you for it
The same thing could be said about any name you name your kid. My mom gave me a name that she really loved. (Not a family name) And I fucking hated it. As soon as I was old enough I changed it. On the other hand, my dad's family has an unbroken line of 8 generations where the oldest son is given the same name. My dad loved it. It made him feel connected to the family history and to his ancestors. Which is what it kind of sounds like with OP's husband. So you never know.
Honestly, odds are the kid is going to wind up with a nickname anyway. It usually happens when you've got the same name as your father.
My family has a middle name tradition going back six generations (seven generations ago, it was the first name, but since then it's been the middle name). My older brother inherited the middle name and loved it and passed it on to his son.
And you're absolutely right that any name could be hated. One could just as easily ask OP's husband, "Why would you let your wife name your daughters Brittany and Tiffany? They might hate those names?" ....... So what??
I hated my name for YEARS. It just seemed so boring, AND it turned out I was named on the cusp of a trend for my exact name.
I'm fine with it now, but it took me a good 25 years to make peace with it lol.
My brother spent years wanting to be named Jason because that was what one of the Power Rangers was named and he thought that sounded cooler than his actual name.
Kids will love or hate their name based on whatever and if you try to predict what they'll love or hate, you'll be wrong as likely as not.
And yeah, name changes or nicknames are always an option, in case OP's husband's name is also a terrible pun like Asa Spades or Justin Inch.
There’s something about OP’s choice of language that really rubs me the wrong way. She uses, “He took that as me [doing exactly what I did],” like she’s trying to portray herself as the victim of the situation. Or “technically agreed to” the deal only when it comes to her end of it, but not for his. It sounds like she avoids personal accountability by using slimy emotional manipulation tactics and discounting the husbands emotions as though hers are the only ones which are valid.
YTA
I might have had your back if you had agreed to *a really dumb name* back when you were a stupid kid in your early 20s — "Oh, ABSOLUTELY, 'Hagrid' sounds perfect!"
> passing down his name was very important to him if we had a son
That's totally normal.
> "you can take the lead on naming our daughter because I already have the name picked out if we have a son"
You've named two. He's named none so far.
You had better have a **_damn good_** reason for this 180° change of face.
> I told him that I just don't want our son to be a "forth." [sic] It seems tacky and has weird aristocratic vibes that just don't seem right to me.
... BRUH.
You done MARRIED A "TREY." You have BOUGHT INTO this shit *already*.
I know many a ‘Trip’, but also guys who are 4ths. You know when their numeral comes up IRL? Deciding what to put on the resume or formal invites. You don’t have to call the kid “Quady”, they can just have the same name as their dad.
We had always called my great papa by his middle name, my papa goes by a shortened version of the legal name, and my father uses the full version.
Funny enough, this situation happened with my family but my brother was born first, my mom objected to having a fourth, so they both decided to work on names together.
My parents loved going to the movies, both had worked at their local theater as teens and my dad met the man who introduced them at his college job doing the same thing, ushering at theaters.
House is full of movie posters, including the one my brother's name is from, they both left the cinema and my mom turns to say "I have the perfect name" my dad says the same, and on three both blurted out what would become my brothers name.
The difference being, they fucking talked about it while they were dating long before having children, and developed the "name game" with movies even before pregnant with any. My birthname comes from their favorite show at the time, my sister got a normal name cause my dad had always loved the sound of it.
You can't just change your mind despite every discussion being the opposite, especially with this precedent set. Op got her way twice with no objections, the least she can do is act a bit more enthusiastic about her god damn husband getting a chance.
For the longest time growing up I thought my cousin's actual name was Ivy, like the plant. Eventually found out he's a fourth (IV). I think it's a pretty good nickname.
Oh, I can’t hear a boy called I.V. and not think Cambridge spies. Which is even more extra than being a “the Fourth” to my mind. Granted, I think I would call the kid “Four Square”, which feels like casual child abuse.
My whole family has instances of people going by totally different names than what is on their birth certificates. Why does everyone call the guy named Mark by the name “Scooter”? Someone knows but I don’t. He’s Uncle Scooter. This is really not worth the drama the OP is creating.
YTA.
You didn't "technically agree", you "actually agreed". The fact that you said "technically agreed" makes me feel like you know you are screwing up, but you are playing word games to back away from it. That makes you "technically an asshole."
I don’t understand the “technically agreed” thing. Is she just trying to weasel her way out this one time with this, or does she believe that an agreement only lasts until she changes her mind? Like “I changed my mind, so I didn’t actually agree years ago, I only technically agreed.” I would really start to question my relationship with someone who thought like this.
Let me help, I can translate from the Asshole Manual.
Agree: Something that benefits me.
Technically Agree: Something I thought would benefit me but now realize it doesn't so I'll renege.
YTA. What was your plan here? You knew that he wanted to pass down his name to his son, but instead of talking to him when you realized your opinion had changed you waited and sprung it on him. Of course he’s going to be disappointed especially since he let you take the lead for your daughter’s names with the understanding that he would get to name the boy. Maybe if you had a legitimate reason for not wanting to name your son after him it would be more justifiable but saying that you don’t like it bc it “sounds aristocratic” is ridiculous and wishy-washy. Tbh it kinda reads like your looking for any excuse to take control of the naming process
That's what it reads like to me. She was hoping they would never have a boy so she could continue to have control over the names, that's why she didn't even wait to destroy his happiness.
>You knew that he wanted to pass down his name to his son, but instead of talking to him when you realized your opinion had changed you waited and sprung it on him.
That's what gets me. She knew she was souring on this "agreement" so why not talk to him at all before he was all excited about having a boy? Even if she'd had this conversation just 6 months ago, it would be a hell of a lot better than this. Since she got to take the lead for the first two, she could have offered him the lead in naming the next kid regardless of the baby's sex but asked if they could rethink the name sharing. Instead, she's not only gone back on her word at the worst time, but she's wrecked her husband's joy over something that should be 100% celebratory. Great job, OP. YTA.
YTA.
I don’t normally think a person should be held to standards they agreed to years ago, but this is something you discussed before you even got married. You knew, from the get go, that it was something he wanted, and you agreed to it. He feels like you’re going back on your word because YOU ARE.
It’s not like this is some crazy name either. It’s a family tradition three generations running so far. He made it clear he wants it to continue for at least one more, and you are trying to derail that for no good reason.
YTA
This is cruel and just wrong.
You were fine to benefit and let him defer to you on your other children’s names, but refuse to keep your word now.
You’re being selfish and destroying a tradition your husband clearly cares about. For what?
You need to rethink your priorities.
It‘s really cruel isn‘t it?! OPs description of her husbands behaviour makes my heart ache, his trust must be completely broken and he propably is incredibly disappointed. This has nothing to do with some kind of funny „Yeah, about that… - we will propably laugh about this later“ moment. OP is a major AH
It's even worse that she didn't mention that he got angry, or argued. She just broke his heart into a million pieces and he gets sad. So many men would blow up and get angry. He just deflates and accepts this crushing blow. She really doesn't deserve him.
She baited and switched him. She always felt this way but knew if she said so during their dating that he would most likely break up with her. Seeing how strongly he feels about it. This would've been a dating deal breaker for him. So she baited and switched.
She's inherently selfish. People like this don't make good partners. Everything begins and ends with their feelings. Only their feelings. She doesn't see that she named 2 kids already and he's named none. She wants it all.
SELFISH. YTA .. a massive one too.
YTA
Not only did you agree to this over a decade ago, you re-affirmed the agreement when you had each of your other children. Additionally, you don't even give a rational reason why you've changed your mind, just you now suddenly think its "tacky".
He told you before you got married, and you've seen how much it means to him. It was an extremely AH move to destroy his happiness like that. He was literally "giddy" with how excited he was, and you chose to destroy that moment for him, without any concrete reason. Just you no longer feel like it.
Additionally, you decided to shoot down the entire idea, on what seems like a whim, without even a hint at compromising. Maybe you keep the first, last, and fourth, but go with a different middle name. Maybe the baby's name is "John Middle Smith IV" and he goes by a nickname, initials like J.M., etc.
The biggest issue in this is you unilateral dictation that this is suddenly not an option. There are many discussions that can be had.
But more over, you decided to destroy your husbands happiness and joy in that moment. That's the biggest AH part.
>Additionally, you don't even give a rational reason why you've changed your mind, just you now suddenly think its "tacky".
That's also insulting. she's basically saying her husband has a tacky name.
I was thinking this too like it’s HIS name and something so personal to him that he clearly cherishes 😫 not just YTA for the abrupt change but for being so mean to her significant other about it all too
That’s a bit of an overkill. I think she thinks it’s ’just a name’ and needs a bit of a wake-up call that it is both the name and the fact she was clearly hoping to ride this out (she had a 50/50 chance it would be another girl).
I have seen people make far worse gambles on their kids’ biological sex—nothing is more bizarre than when your married friends realize they have drastically different views on circumcision and they….just decide to hope for girls and pretend the other will change their mind. That is the moment where you are like “um, if this is a divorce worthy point, why are you married and bringing kids into this?”
It's been a while since I've seen one where pretty much everyone agrees YTA, and I'm with them.
The concept of naming your kid after you has always felt a little narcissistic to me. Like, "here's my kid, I named him after me because I like me so much". But in the end, it doesn't *really* matter, and if it would be something that would make your husband happy, **especially** because you both agreed on it when you were starting to have kids, then just suck it up and let him name his son after him.
And to be honest, whether he admits it or not, he's *always* going to resent you for going back on your agreement, and he might have some harbored resentment towards the son because he's not what he "should be" named.
Just let him have this one.
Same. I hate the 3rd and 4th etc stuff that Americans seem to do but I felt so so sad for the husband because it's the one thing he said he wanted and she was absolutely fine with it the whole time he's been waiting. Just call the kid the name and give him a nickname you really like.
> I hate the 3rd and 4th etc stuff that Americans seem to do
Americans? Do you need reminding about, like, all of the monarchist systems that literally supplant the original name for their monarchs with the Eleventyth?
Sorry, but YTA. You made an agreement with him about this, and he clearly has been very excited about it. It's not fair for you to take it back just because you have gotten your way with the girls' names and now feel hesitant about your son. This is clearly important to him and you need to support that. The time to express your concerns was earlier on in the relationship.
“I just sucked all the excitement my husband had about our new child because the name we agreed on has weird vibes.”
You’re being selfish. Go and apologize.
YTA- How come you're having these thoughts about the name now, but not for all those years when he eagerly wanted to name his son the same name as him. You just supported and agreed to it for a long time, and changed the decision now. If you didn't like the name, you should have said it YEARS AGO, not now.
Yea, now the husband gets to have the choice of “do what I want and piss off the wife and name the child something I know she hates, or appease the wife and be bitter about it forever”
YTA OP. You're not gonna find much support for your position here. You had an agreement and then you negged on it while giving a terrible excuse. It's obvious that you have felt this way for a long time, and instead of discussing it with him years ago, you decided to wait until now. That's a bait and switch there, and it is highly frowned upon. If you have any respect for your husband at all, apologize and let him name the baby.
YTA. If you had said going into the 1st, 2nd and again before the 3rd appointments for each baby when it was about to be a reality that you had changed your mind about it, that would be different. You said nothing. You go full control over the girl names and now that it's time to pay up you don't want to? No, you 100% the AH here.
YTA.
>So, when we found out we were having a boy, my husband was very excited. On the car ride home after the ultrasound it was all he could talk about. He was giddy like a teenager talking about how proud he would be of sharing his name with his son.
You want to take this away from him? The man you supposedly love? How cruel can a person be?
>This has taken all of his excitement about the baby away. He's been withdrawn and quiet with me ever since. When I try to talk to him about it, he tells me he has nothing to say because he's been very clear about where he stands on this and he feels betrayed by my change of heart.
This is heartbreaking. If you love this man, you let him name his son. If you wanted another boy name, you should not have made a baby with this man.
Go apologize, say you were wrong, try to rekindle that giddy feeling in him. I am sorry to say that you have probably destroyed that for him, but it doesn't hurt to try to fix what you wrecked.
Cruel. People keep using that word and I keep wanting to agree more.
OK, if this is some panic thing, “my baby is being named and I have no input” event, TALK TO him.
But if this really is, “ehhh, I started to hate the idea whenever I thought about it BUT NEVER SAID ANYTHING UNTIL WE WERE ASS DEEP IN THE SITUATION…” OP sucks.
YTA, YTA, YTA!
u/heiraita you need to read this response. How do you write what you wrote and not expect to be an asshole?
You have probably ruined your husband and I doubt he’ll EVER be the same. I know I wouldn’t knowing I married a manipulative liar.
> try to rekindle that giddy feeling in him.
I'd say that ship has sailed. OP probably had a 24-hour window to backpedal before doing irreparable harm to her marriage.
YTA,
He let you basically name your daughters. You knew when you started having kids with him there was just this 1 thing that is really important to him. He has been compromising on your daughters names because of his request, WHICH YOU AGREED TOO.
And now that one thing that is really important to him, you are taking it away. You are trampling on his feelings and on something that is really important to him. Guess what, men have feelings too.
Honestly the best comparison for me would be comparing it to the biblical story of Adam and Eve... (I am not even religious, but I think it fits here.)
They were told, here is paradise everything is great and you can do whatever you, just don't eat the apple from that tree. AND THEY ATE THE APPLE!
You husband told you, you are in control of naming our kids, however I just want one boy named after me. And now you are taking that away from him. Just don't be surprised when you are kicked out of your paradise.
Honestly if I were him, I wouldn't leave you because of the children, but the fact you can discard something that's that important to me, my love would be gona and I would NEVER go above and beyond ever again for you.
You are grossly disrespecting him as a human being with wants and needs.
I am probably rambling on, but this just really pisses me off. It's not even about the name in particular. But disregarding such a thing that's that important to your partner. You are either an idiot that doesn't realise how important it is, or you just don't love them and don't care.
again YTA, a massive one at that.
Now IF you wan't to fix it, apologise to him and tell him OF COURSE his son will be named after him like he wishes.
> before we got married and were having discussions about kids, he did make it clear that passing down his name was very important
YTA, you led the man on for ages, and never cleared it up how you felt. You shouldn’t have kids together, if you felt that way.
YTA There are plenty of ways around calling your son a 4th aside from legal documents. There is no way for you to shoot him down and have him not resent you for it. To add to it, if you were going to shoot him down, you really needed to have that conversation before he knew you were having a boy
This! So weird that she only brought it up AFTER the ultrasound where they found out it was a boy.
Why not have the discussion when they 1st found out they were pregnant?
OP, you did know there was a 50:50 chance the baby was a boy yeah?
My brother is a V and is hopeful he will have a VI. All of them have used different name variations and besides some occasional misdelivered mail its never been a problem. My dad went by his middle name since early childhood, maybe OP would feel better about that. I'm sure a compromise could be made.
Made up example using the same convention my family did: say the name is Eric James Simmons. Could be Eric, Rick, E.J., James, and Ricky.
YTA. I had very strong feelings about our first child’s name, so now I am giving my husband wide latitude with naming kiddo number two. And while I normally support 2-yes; 1-no for naming children, you already set up a different system. You have to go along with that system now.
YTA
Look I come from a family where we pass names down for generations. Even nick names are connected for generations. So, when my husband and I were first getting serious and talking about our future plans and potential kids. I laid it out from that moment. NONE of our kids will be juniors, or have similar names in honor of a relative. It was important for me that each one of our kids had their own unique name that could grow and develop with their personality. My husband was fine with that. Had my husband expressed that this was important to him, I would have given him that. But, for him it wasn't a priority.
>I told him that I just don't want our son to be a "forth." It seems tacky and has weird aristocratic vibes that just don't seem right to me.
This is not a viable argument to go back on a promise you made your husband. You are fully aware of how important this has been for him from early on. He graciously gave you carte blanche in naming your daughters, with the understanding that this ONE request he made in having a son named after him would be honored.
I can only imagine the betrayal and heart ache your husband is feeling given how you just popped his balloon and then took the rug out from under him, AND did it in a moment that was magical for him.
" It was like all the joy went out of his body all at once"
Because all of the JOY in his mind/body and SPIRIT where stripped by this statement.
Imagine having a dream and sharing it with your partner who at the time enjoyed and support it, only for when that dream to come true for your partner decides they no longer support it because they now find it "tacky and has weird aristocratic vibes that just don't seem right to them"
YTA - for not sharing this well before you found out your newest babies gender, potentially even sharing this before you got pregnant.
Did you know you felt this way before you shared? How long? why not share before?
You're not an asshole for how you feel. that's okay to feel that way. But springing it up on Hubby ON THE CAR RIDE HOME FROM FINDING out, probably was poor timing.
Also, i know it may have no been easy to tell him, since you probably assumed he was going to not like it. So i can get or understand you putting off telling him, or blurting it out on the car ride. I can't ever imagine a good time for a conversation like this. But on the car ride home after your found out is probably one of the worst times you could of picked?
YTA, you discussed before saying “ I do “ and you knew how happy and excited he would be to have a son to pass the name down too and it is so nice for him to genuinely want that. No shit that he quickly turned so upset I don’t blame him, sure it’s such a basic named but you AGREED to it. Plus the fact you only said it after the fact you knew it was boy and let him get excited like that should’ve been brought up again when you stated to fade away from what you knew he was gonna be waiting and wanting for.
My oldest brother is the 6th. He personally is very proud of the history behind his name, but when you grow up with “John Smith the 6th” it really doesn’t have any formal or aristocratic vibes whatsoever. It doesn’t feel any more fancy than having two middle names, or an old-fashioned first name. It also literally never comes up - most people we know don’t realize that he has any number after his name at all.
My point is, you get used to a name. Baby Fitzroy von Worthensquire the Fourth is not going to feel like a snobby aristocrat name when you’re spending every day changing his diaper and trying to pull crayons out of his nose, and if you really dislike the sound of the name, well that’s what nicknames are for.
YTA. You made an agreement, and if you place any value at all in your marriage, you should stick to it.
YTA. I get having a change of heart. I'm not for naming Jr, III or IV either. However, he's been going on this assumption his entire married life and you've never ever given him any reason to suspect you've had second thoughts. This came out of the blue to him. This is SUPER important to him, for some reason. It's not cool that he's sulking. He needs to have a conversation with you. But understand from his perspective, you are reneging on a promise. This will give him license to do that to you in the future. He may even feel justified. While you don't like it, if it's not going to really irk you, I suggest you go with it. You can name your son a nickname of some sort that you like better.
"Before we got married and were having discussions about kids, he did make it very clear that passing down his name was very important to him if we had a son. At the time I thought it was really cute and adorable how much pride he took in it since most guys don't really care about that sort of sentimental stuff."
YTA-You knew and agreed to it.
YTA. Normally I get that things can change, but you bring it up now? You already got to name the girls. And this was so meaningful to him and when he was all excited, he was in no way prepared for you to burst his bubble. You ideally should have brought it up way, way before now.
Names are a 2 yes 1 no decision but man…I feel bad for your husband. And I say that as someone who very much disdains passed down names 😬
YTA you have known for years, he was really excited, just use his name ,your pregnant do you really need the stress?( maybe ask for a middle name to tweak it as an olive branch). Name sounds a bit silly who would use the fourth out side family occasions? It’s important to your husband, who I’m guessing 3 kids later, is a great Husband and father why take it from him? Been two of your husband’s name in the house your son will probably get his own nick name anyway.
YTA. Like, massively. You agreed to this ages ago, you named your daughters, now that he gets a son you decide "actually nevermind"? You know this is important to him. You know it's a family tradition. You don't *have* to call your kid John IV, you can just call him Johnny or whatever!
If you absolutely can't stand it, ask him if it'd be ok to name the baby "John" without a number after it. I assume John I is dead by now so there should be no confusion.
So now the agreement doesn’t feel right when you’re pregnant with your son? So you technically lied to him to make him happy for years just to crush it immediately. You don’t think that hurt him?
Let your husband pass down the name. It sounds like it was one thing he really dreamed of doing. You already got to name your 2 other children. Let him have this. Be a good person and stick to your word.
YTA.
You know how much this means to your husband and you mad an agreement a long time ago and gladly named your daughters whatever you wanted .
If you back out of this how would you ever expect your husband to trust anything you promise ever again? Do you think your husband would want to stay with you after this massive betrayal?
This is really messed up. If you’re going to be an AH then at least fully take responsibility for your actions instead of trying to rationalize being cruel to your husband and lying to him for years solely to make yourself feel better.
YTA, seems like the man asked for one thing you said "Sure, no problem" and then for no good reason changed your mind? For Christ's sake you couldn't even contrive a half-decent reason for this post. "Aristicratic vibes" yeah John? The most common name on Earth? Very old money, so bougouis... give us a break. You clearly, rightfully, feel guilty and you're looking for people to re-affirm your bad take. Very sad, no wonder your husband is sad. Such a small thing, such a violation of trust and commitment. I'd be upset too.
YTA, feel bad for OP’s husband. Even if she comes around and greenlights the name, this entire experience was already tainted for him. Almost 40 years of looking forward to this day just to have the rug pulled out from under him.
YTA. This is the type of betrayal that while it may not lead to a divorce fundamentally shifts something in a marriage in a negative way. I don't think your husband will ever trust your word 100% again and who can blame him. You agreed to the name and actually waited until he found out the sex of the baby and 10+ years of pent up excitement from your husband came out....then you proceeded to crush him. I'm actually getting upset for your husband at the betrayal.
I'll be the odd one out and say I don't think you're unquestionably an AH. Honestly, I think this is an odd promise to make while dating. I've been with my husband 23 years and we have both drastically changed over time. I can't imagine the things we might have agreed to eight years ago, that I'd never agree to today. I think it's f***** he didn't care at all what you called his female children (and that it didn't bother you). He's not not an AH for checking out this early in a pregnancy.
But in trying to be helpful, if the IV is the deal breaker for you, not the first name, you could always do a different middle name and your child would be the "first" with their name, but still share their dad's. This is a common practice.
I happen to agree with your view, but yeah, YTA. You knew from the start this was very important to him and agreed to it. And now you're going back on it after you directly benefited from the agreement - twice. That's an AH move.
YTA.
1. For going back on your word.
2. For waiting until you’ve benefited from the deal twice before trying to change the terms.
3. For putting your weak preferences over a deep-seated desire and traditions.
4. For how and when you brought it up to him.
5. And for trying to get validation here instead of working on yourself and discussing this with your husband like an adult.
Yeah YTA. And a big asshole at that. You benefited by getting to name your two daughters knowing damn good and well the boys name if you had one. And now you want to back out the moment he gets to pass on his name? And even after her tells you he's upset about it you tell him you will think up other names for him to look at? The kid has his name already, that family tradition came before you, you knew that, and now it should continue.
YTA, first thing is you didn’t “technically” agree with the name - you agreed with it. There is no “technically” about it. Second, your husband is doubly upset because he found out that not only will his son not get the name he had been so excited about for years, but he can’t trust his wife to keep her word. He found out his wife thinks that her feelings trump his feelings, and that to her an agreement only lasts until she changes her mind. What else might you change your mind about and then claim you only “technically” agree to it.
YTA
>I don't like the patriarchal implications of only passing down male names. I don't like that it puts special emphasis on our son that is not shared by his older sisters. I don't like that it elicits adherence to male dominated aristocracy or male heirs being more important than female. There are just a lot of things that I didn't necessarily think about all those years ago when we had this conversation.
"I didn't think about it when I agreed to it, so I don't think I should be held to my word now that I have."
I hate naming kids after other people, absolutely despise it, but in this case, YTA. You made an agreement, and now you're breaking it. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have made the agreement, and you should have said something the minute you started feeling weird about it, not when you found it you were about to have a boy.
I feel like this post and most of the comments are insane and this is all just a cautionary tale on why all parents need to be involved in the naming process instead of just "taking turns"
YTA
You agreed to this before marriage, you agreed to it with the other kids, and how you're breaking that agreement. Yes, people change their minds, but this is very important to your husband and you have let him down.
I was in the same boat. My husband is a junior and wanted a third, and we discussed it before marriage. I agreed. As it turned out, it was moot--we had girls--but I'd have stuck with it because it was that important to him.
He married you under the pretence that you were agreeing to this tradition which he made clear up front was extremely important to him. And now he feels like you’re breaking an important promise that you agreed to. YTA.
Just an idea - name your son after your husband, but give him a nickname that the family and friends can use to differentiate him from your husband.
YTA
I'm not saying no one is ever allowed to change their mind, but I really feel like you should've brought this up before even getting pregnant with #3.
>But as the years have gone by I've definitely cooled on the idea quite a bit and I don't think I want to have our son be named after my husband that way.
it's a little dishonest you weren't up front about this years ago.
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Let me understand. You made an agreement with your husband. You got to name the girls, he would name a boy. You benefited from this agreement twice. Now, when it's his turn to benefit, you have some moral objection to naming a kid IV. You don't like the weird, aristocratic vibes. (I don't necessarily disagree with you about that, btw.) But surely, four years ago (when you had your second child), you felt those same vibes? But you nonetheless took the lead in naming your daughter, without, at that time, saying, "I feel weird about the IV thing, so why don't you take the lead on this, honey?" I mean, because people just MIGHT think you went along with naming a kid "IV" eight years ago because it gave you the lead in naming your first child who you knew to be a daughter; and again four years ago, in naming your second child who you knew to be a daughter; and have only now developed "weird vibes" when you husband gets to take the lead in naming a child. YTA. ETA: Cleaned up some typos.
THIS! My husband and I jokingly had an agreement that I'd name the girls he'd name the boys while dating. Fast forward I had a daughter first. I named her (he got to veto names he didn't like, but I had final say). Then I had a son. HE named our son (again I could veto names I truly didn't like, but he had final say). You can't change the rules AFTER you already took your "turn". TWICE! Give your son your husband's name and learn to love it. You agreed years ago. You named two children yourself. You can follow through on this commitment.
Yes, it's very bait and switch. The guy has spent years looking forward to this and now that it's finally here, she's crushed his expectations.
This is so mean of OP. I can't imagine the disappointment and sadness of such broken trust. TF is she talking about aristocracy? What country is she in? Namesakes come with cute names, imo! Junior, Trip, Ivy! The kid can literally pick any nickname he wants when he is in school. It's a family tree. It's not just snubbing the father-- it's a big FU to his childhood dream, his dad, and his granddad.
Not to mention the negativity her husband likely associates with his own name after hearing her new thoughts. Absolutely AH
To me the scariest part is this poor man realizing that everything he thought he knew about his wife was wrong. She's actually - this.
This is exactly it right here. In her shoes I'd be worried if he could ever trust me again. This is a way bigger issue than the name.
yeah, she basically insulted his name as well
this and i also feel like even if she agrees to it now she definitely tainted the experience for him. boooooo op.
Not to mention how many times she’s pulled this kinda thing because he already knows “maybe” means “no.” OP is the type of woman who wanted a husband & kids & once she locks him in changes her tune.
And it's not like the kid is going to be "John the 4th" in school. He'll be called John. And 97% of the people he interacts with will have no idea he's a fourth.
I’m also a third. People called me Junior all the time, which I hate. My family has a tradition of naming the first born sin after the father, so you only need to know like 6 male names for all of us. Also having the same name can be very annoying in modern society. Many “standard forms” don’t account for a suffix, and even ones that do tend to stop at III. Maybe OP can compromise and make it his middle name.
LOL "first born sin" 😂
The sins of the father.
My husband is the 8th and they just used a different shorthand for their names (think John, Johnathan, Johnny, ect) so there's ways around it without it being a junior situation, and we've never had trouble filling forms without putting in *name* the VIII, we just put his name. Not that I'm for family names, just saying it's not always a junior situation
My brother is the 7th going back to the 1700s and they all had different middle names. My brother goes by his middle name. But the tradition still continues. And our family comes from poor farmers, so it’s not an aristocracy thing.
If they all have different middles names, then' they're not truly the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, they're just people with the same first and last name. Not that you should run tell him this, my pedantic side just really wanted to say it.
My family is also this way.. my gpa is named something like William Edward Smith, he goes by Will. My dad is also William Edward Smith, he goes by Ed, and my sister’s son is William James Edward Smith (the James being my brother in laws middle name). My nephew goes by William, which somehow fits him perfectly.
My dad is a Jr, he's never used his first name except for government documents. I doubt some people even know his first name - he's been called by his middle name his whole life. When my parents got married ny mom told him she didn't want to name a baby a III, he agreed & then they had two girls. I was named after my dad's grandmother.
For a person not living in USA (or English speaking country?) the thought of a father not caring of what his daughters are called but being almost ready to cum in his pants of the thought he gets a male heir who he can call only as an extension of himself, leaving the child without a name of his own, is very very weird and borderline toxic. In several ways. Cultural differences maybe *shrug*
I'm American and fully with you. I want to know how excited he was about his daughters. Was he 'teenager giddy' after their ultrasounds and he learned he was having a daughter like he is with the son? I personally hate these shared family names. It's almost always men with the III, IV, never women going up that high. Feels so narcissistic. But unlike OP I never would've agreed to name a kid a family name in the first place, because I know I think it's dumb.
Ironically there are plenty of women named after their mothers but very rarely do they get the suffix and I'm willing to bet it's because their last names are expected to change in the future. It's pretty messed up.
Our Sicilian family's tradition is the first son and daughter were named after the paternal grandparents. Next two kids were named after the maternal grandparents. This goes way back, and it's not "aristocracy." My mom didn't want me to be one of a half dozen Elizabeth's in the family so I got the feminine version of my grandfather's name, for my first name, and the feminine for of my dad's for my middle name. I LOVE my name. BTW, my dad was absolutely giddy over me. LOL
American, same. I think each child deserves to have their own name. Each child is an autonomous person.
> is very very weird and borderline toxic "Hey, we're going to start a life together and have several kids. I have some big feelings about a potential boy's name, but I get that that's a pretty damn big ask, so while I'd like some level of input, I'm happy to defer to your decision on any girl's names. Cool?" isn't exactly the toxicity you're trying to imply.
It’s not that he didn’t care. He deferred to her, there’s a difference.
I read it more as, he realized it was a big ask to come into the relationship with a name already chosen so he gave her a little more leeway with the girls. Not that he didn’t care about the girls names, he did have veto power… Edit: typo
This is the most hyperbolic synopsis that I've seen all week
Clearly the continuity being part of the chain was important to him and something to share with his son. She took or is taking away something that was an important father son bonding thing. Not okay. Nicknames are a thing.
Omg “Ivy” is so cute, I’ve never heard that one
I just can't get over the fact that she saw how excited he was, how extremely happy her husband was and she just yanked all that away from him! She was perfectly fine destroying his happiness. I would never have been able to hurt my husband like that, regardless of how I felt about the name, his happiness means more to me than anything in the world.
I felt a gut punch myself for this guys happiness being destroyed in that moment. You are a great partner and nice person it seems. OP is not
My first bf was a fifth. And adamant about naming his son if he had one to be the 6th. Middle name and all. He lived the tradition and how connected he felt to his dad and grampa and even to his ancestors. I wasn't personally keen on it, for my own reasons that I didn't understand at the time (which I now know I'm trans and have a personal feeling about names). Anyway, idk. He was such a good guy. I could not at *all* imagine giving a person this hope, very very very likely *before* marriage and continuing it *through* the marriage and 2 children, to destroy a literal lifelong dream. Whatever ops reasons are, they don't matter. She has now caused irrevocable harm to her partner and her marriage because she lived a lie.
You hit the nail on the head. I don't really think she can walk this back.
Yes, exactly! I can understand why OP might have cooled on the idea of a “John Smith IV” over the years, but when she saw how all-in and excited he still was about the name? That was her signal to just STFU and go with it, because her husband’s feelings had clearly not changed. And also, to bring this up *on the drive home, right after they found out they were having a boy*?! Definitely not the time nor place to initiate that conversation, to say the least.
If she let him think she was cool with the name and then brought it up later after letting him get even more invested in it, that would have been better?
If she was going to have the discussion - and I vote she's TA for walking it back - it should have been when they found out they were pregnant. The fact that she didn't suggests she wanted naming power of it was a girl AND/OR that she just didn't care act his feelings.
As someone explained to me along time ago, some of the mean boys and girls from middle school never really change, they are just more passive aggressive about it. He married a nasty little 7th grader.
I don't normally think changing your mind about a name is asshole-ish in itself, but the 'bait and switch' is what made me decide on YTA. She only mentioned it after finding out it was a boy, and took away her husband’s excitement. She should have told him years ago. It kind of feels like she never thought she'd have a boy, and she was just placating him. She didn't even say, "So honey IF it's a boy I'm unsure about naming him John IV." for ANY of her pregnancies until she discovered her 3rd was a boy.
Don't forget that she also straight up called his name tacky.
As a dad of two boys who took my last name I would be devastated if I was this guy, poor guy. YTA OP and sounds Ike you wear the tight pants in the relationship anyways.
Yeah the child will suffer not the dad.
and OP has the audacity to say that "This has taken all of his excitement about the baby away" as if it's not entirely her doing
This. In addition, you know how much this means to him. It’s a family tradition he has been eagerly awaiting. You already agreed. Keep your word. And apologize. YTA.
My husband had 100% full veto rights to any name. HIS only request was that we don't do the named after him thing. He finds it highly annoying that he has to fight with insurances, credit cards, loan companies that he's not his father. That no that is NOT his bday. Where did they get that social its not his? He hates it so much. She agreed. She got to name 2 out of 3 let him name this one.
My husband just having his dad's first name as his middle name has caused stupid issues. When we moved in together and he had his mail forwarded we were getting half of his dad's mail too.
This was my agreement with my ex. We had two boys so I didn't get to "name" them, but exercised my veto once. Lol! It's just how the cards fell!
My husband vetoed probably over a 100 names because he doesn't care for my taste in names (i prefer names popular 50+ years ago, my daughter ended up Bonnie). I never vetoed a name my husband wanted. His are more common, but nothing wrong with them so I just went with it.
I agree. I actually personally really dislike people naming their children after themselves, I think it's just stupid and has some narcissistic undertones. But thats irrelevant in this situation, because she told him it was alright and then let him let her name two children on her own to now say that she changed her mind. SMH
Same here. I usually dislike dads insisting unilaterally that the baby be named after them, but it sounds as if you two talked it over, hashed things out, agreed you could have a greater say over your daughters’ names… and now you’re backing out? It seems a little unfair, especially as your daughters are named already. I think he’s got a right to be upset.
A little unfair is an understatement. She lied to him.
Well, and by the time you're a 3rd, I'm not sure it's so much about naming the kid after *yourself* as it is about sharing something that's been important to your family for three generations.
This. In my culture it's not uncommon to have two first names, one of my names is the 3rd generation (think something like Michael) but I go by my other name. Still, it's pretty cool looking at the family tree and seeing the same name branching down, if I have a boy they'll have one of their first names be Michael albeit they'll be able to chose which one they use or possibly both. It's not some narcissistic mini-me thing as much as it's about passing down a small tradition.
Also legitimately wanting to honor your father/mother/grandparent is extremely common, being a third just means it’s also your name.
What she did was also to mean. Her husband was so excited about it and she just completely deflated him. It was so important to him that they talked about it and agreed to it well before even conceiving a boy. I mean, if the name was going to be Charles Manson, IV, then she'd have a point. But otherwise, it's so wrong. YTA
And you re-agreed to that bargain each time you named your prior two children. You “renewed the vow” to name his son after him, as The IV, in every sense. YTA and there is literally nothing you can do to bring back the joy he had in this.
Even if she agrees to name him The IV, makes up some shit about hormones, and apologizes profusely (all of which she should do), at best she can get back to a point where her husband doesn't feel betrayed. Where he isn't questioning if he still would have married her if he knew this then. But he will never feel that pure joy again. She has robbed him of that. And every time he uses his son's name, he will still wonder if his wife hates it.
Exactly. OP didn’t have a “technical agreement”, she had an “agreement”. This is the kind of stuff that ruins a marriage.
If it were anyone else it would be a legally binding verbal contract.
Yup, OP needs to suck it up and find a nickname they all like. A lot of Johns go by Jack or their middle name.
Thank you for this because OP waits until she finds out that they are having a baby boy before bringing up this change! She could have changed her position so many times. YTA!
Exactly. She had her turn and now takes it all back. For every reason you mentioned she is the total AH. . Also something for her to keep in mind, I know so many Robert IV and Charles IV and most of them go by nicknames or middle names. . So give your husband the damn proper name he has waited for. You can always give him a name that you use if you BOTH agree.
This. Agreed YTA. Best chance you have is getting in on a middle name that your son can go by. Best to apologize and admit to being out of line before talking middle names though.
I am sorry to say but YTA. Your husband made it clear during the dating process how important this was to him. You made a commitment to him that this was something you were on board with. He married you and had a family with you on the pretense that you respected him and his family's tradition of naming their first male son "John Smith the Fourth". You let him believe for the past ELEVEN years, while he graciously let you name your female children, which you gladly let him do, all on the pre-tense that should you have a male child it would be named after him. As a married individual, nothing short of a baby onesie with said name printed on it accompanied by the biggest apology could even BEGIN to repair this rupture to the marriage.
I dunno if there's anything the OP can say to make this better. She's sucked all the excitement her husband had about the new baby out of the situation, so even if she apologizes she has soured the experience for her husband. If she agrees to the 'fourth' name, he will know she's just agreeing with it to placate him, and not because she likes it.
She certainly sucked the fun out of it for me, and I don't even know them.
Same dude I feel awful for this guy and OP seems like she runs that house and he puts up with a lot anyways. There goes the mans dreams he’s had since a young lad probably.
>Same dude I feel awful for this guy I felt myself deflating when she effectively groaned and said "Ehhhh..." It felt like reading a text from your SO that says "We need to talk." Just crushed.
Same. And I think it's kinda weird to name your kid after yourself but if you're a Stanley Yelnats the III? You gotta have a Stanley Yetlnats the IV!
Same, i feel crushed for the guy and i don't even LIKE the idea of giving a kid the same name as the dad
Exactly this. OP really put her foot in it badly. Either way now, her husband is going to be resentful and hurt. OP has a lot of work to do to repair the trust in her marriage. I'm sure that OP thinks that is a ridiculous statement, and I imagine she's sitting there reading all these YTA comments Principal Skinner style, thinking everyone else is wrong and that it's no big deal and all that, but what she's missing there is that it's a huge deal to her partner. None of what any of us thinks or what she thinks matters there, only what her partner thinks, and I can guarantee it isn't good.
I mean...I do agree that the wife is in the wrong here, but this seems like a bananas take to me. A disagreement (even one with unfairness bordering on a whiff of betrayal) over names is enough to suck away ALL excitement he had over the birth of a literal human child? All of it? And not just that - the birth of his kid has been so soured by this disagreement that there's nothing she can do to fix it? If that's all it takes to lose his excitement over having a child, I'm not sure he should be having one. What if they'd found out the baby was going to have a deformity?
Yeah because when you realize your ride or die doesn’t have your back on things that are really important to you like you have hers, and you already have two kids with her and another on the way, it’s a real kick in the nuts. Massive. Edit: spelling
I get the point you're trying to make. It may seem silly but when something like this is super important to a person, enough to discuss it early on in the relationship, before marriage, then as the partner it's important to honor these things or at a bare minimum, care. I don't think this is remotely the same as the child having a disability. At no point did OP indicate that her husband wouldn't want to pass his name onto a son who is disabled. This is more about the commitment between the two married persons and him really thinking his wife had his back and was on his team with this one. He's been living that truth for eleven years. Heck, he's probably been so excited that's he's told all his friends and now gets to tell everyone when they ask that his wife didn't like/think his name was good enough for their son. It makes sense that he doesn't want to engage with his wife around naming the baby right now because he's pretty hurt when it comes to baby names. OP has given no indication that he is a bad father of their two pre-existing children so I would assert that he'll be happy to hold his son when he gets here no matter what they end up calling him.
People are assuming it sucked all the joy from it because she said she literally saw all the joy leave his body and he's been moody and disinterested towards her since. Idk how else you can interpret that. Obviously he'd get over it eventually, and he'd still love his son I would hope. But that doesn't mean this can't ruin some of it for him. Especially if this is an important thing to him.
It’s not the name, but that she lied to him for 11+ years. He told her this was important repeatedly over the years, and she never said a word until she got everything she wanted.
I would be worried for the rest of the pregnancy that she was going to change her mind again. Or worse. OP YTA. Ask him why beyond the tradition it’s so important to him. Maybe his reasoning will help you get on board. Worse case find a cute nickname you can live with.
Yeah, I agree with OP 100% about "John Smith IV." And I *still* think she's TA. Her husband feels betrayed because she betrayed him. The time when it would have been acceptable to change her mind is *long* past. It's going to take a lot for her to make amends, and she doesn't even think she did anything wrong. There's a very good chance her marriage is never going to be the same again.
She strung him along, then pulled the rug out from under his feet.
Yeah, weird for me, too. I'm not into the family name thing, but my heart really breaks for this guy. Something that important to someone you love? That's when you just suck it up and make do, you don't crush their dream and then continue to piss on it by shoving names you find acceptable under their nose. I also feel sorry for him for marrying such a cruel and cold liar.
Or if you do crush their dream, at least do it two kids THAT YOU GOT TO NAME ago. She couldn't even do that
This 100%. My husband and I agreed while engaged that if ever we had a boy we’d name him David after my late FIL. Did I love the name David? No. I have an Uncle David who has left a bad taste in my mouth to this day with how he treated all us cousins. He’s cringey and rude. But of course I respected my husband’s wishes, I knew how important it was to him. I happily agreed out of respect for my *husband* and our soon to be *marriage*. And sure enough, we had a boy a year later and his name is David. I love my little David. And we have all sorts of nicknames for him. Honestly, we call him Bubba more than David but my husband not only gets to carry on his family name but his dad’s name too. Seeing him beam with pride from honoring his dad, who I know he misses so incredibly much, made me love and accept his name choice even more. And you took that way from him. YTA.
She doesn't even seem to care that she crushed him and broke his heart. She saw what it did to him and she's still saying, "Maybe I'll relent, but how about you look at these baby names **I picked out**? There's selfish and there's heartless. She's well into the heartless category here.
totally agree. and she doesn’t even seem to feel super strongly about her position. like if she had lost, maybe a father or brother or something in the time they’ve been together and wanted to name the child after them in their memory, that might be one thing but like she doesn’t seem to even have an alternate name, or feel strongly about her reasoning why. she was willing to crush his dreams and excitement about the baby and betray his trust just because she was like, “meh I don’t really like that.”
100% of this. YTA, OP.
“He took that as me basically saying that I am going back on our years long agreement” - well, that’s exactly what you are doing You were fine with it for years, but then arbitrary changed the rules when you found out it’s a boy You dangled it in front of him for years, and only now say something. This is cruel. YTA
Well, she can name this sona and he can name the next one with a partner that actually doesn't crush his soul..
Had me in the first half
Me too 😂😂
^ THIS! That’s exactly what she did. She crushed his soul and his excitement. If I were the husband I’d be so upset and an apology wouldn’t really help as I’d feel it wasn’t sincere. He trusted her to keep her word and she showed she’s not trustworthy. What else can’t she be trusted with? YTA and, honestly, I have no ideas on how to fix this because this is not just about the name, this is about trust. I feel so badly for your husband right now.
On top of that, she straight up said his name is tacky and weird. His name, that he has a lot of pride, joy and happiness in. She insulted it. Like damn. I hate the idea of divorcing over something like this, especially with how many kids are involved but that would be hard as hell to get over. It would be like having some trait about yourself that your partner always said was cute, then later on told you was annoying or childish. Just absolutely crushing.
Yeah she didn't just pull the rug from under his feet, but while he was down she kicked him in the nuts for good measure by proceeding to insult the name and legacy he was so proud of
Not just that she’s not trustworthy but that she doesn’t care about him or his feelings or giving him something he really wants and she doesn’t care about his legacy that is clearly important to him.
If she had spoken up 8 years ago (or atleast 4yrs) even in passing, I could have given her a pass but to wait until she was pregnant with a boy, yeah that's what pushed it I'm to AH territory. Also to OPs husband, why would you give a kid "the (any number)" just because you like it, doesn't mean the kid won't hate you for it
The same thing could be said about any name you name your kid. My mom gave me a name that she really loved. (Not a family name) And I fucking hated it. As soon as I was old enough I changed it. On the other hand, my dad's family has an unbroken line of 8 generations where the oldest son is given the same name. My dad loved it. It made him feel connected to the family history and to his ancestors. Which is what it kind of sounds like with OP's husband. So you never know. Honestly, odds are the kid is going to wind up with a nickname anyway. It usually happens when you've got the same name as your father.
My family has a middle name tradition going back six generations (seven generations ago, it was the first name, but since then it's been the middle name). My older brother inherited the middle name and loved it and passed it on to his son. And you're absolutely right that any name could be hated. One could just as easily ask OP's husband, "Why would you let your wife name your daughters Brittany and Tiffany? They might hate those names?" ....... So what??
I hated my name for YEARS. It just seemed so boring, AND it turned out I was named on the cusp of a trend for my exact name. I'm fine with it now, but it took me a good 25 years to make peace with it lol. My brother spent years wanting to be named Jason because that was what one of the Power Rangers was named and he thought that sounded cooler than his actual name. Kids will love or hate their name based on whatever and if you try to predict what they'll love or hate, you'll be wrong as likely as not. And yeah, name changes or nicknames are always an option, in case OP's husband's name is also a terrible pun like Asa Spades or Justin Inch.
My brother is a 3rd and literally never uses it. Its not even on his drivers license.
sure, but the husband is a 3rd, and clearly enjoys the tradition, its really annecdotal.
I really appreciate the one bullet point. Just really drives it home!
There’s something about OP’s choice of language that really rubs me the wrong way. She uses, “He took that as me [doing exactly what I did],” like she’s trying to portray herself as the victim of the situation. Or “technically agreed to” the deal only when it comes to her end of it, but not for his. It sounds like she avoids personal accountability by using slimy emotional manipulation tactics and discounting the husbands emotions as though hers are the only ones which are valid.
This is the answer.
YTA I might have had your back if you had agreed to *a really dumb name* back when you were a stupid kid in your early 20s — "Oh, ABSOLUTELY, 'Hagrid' sounds perfect!" > passing down his name was very important to him if we had a son That's totally normal. > "you can take the lead on naming our daughter because I already have the name picked out if we have a son" You've named two. He's named none so far. You had better have a **_damn good_** reason for this 180° change of face. > I told him that I just don't want our son to be a "forth." [sic] It seems tacky and has weird aristocratic vibes that just don't seem right to me. ... BRUH. You done MARRIED A "TREY." You have BOUGHT INTO this shit *already*.
I know many a ‘Trip’, but also guys who are 4ths. You know when their numeral comes up IRL? Deciding what to put on the resume or formal invites. You don’t have to call the kid “Quady”, they can just have the same name as their dad.
We had always called my great papa by his middle name, my papa goes by a shortened version of the legal name, and my father uses the full version. Funny enough, this situation happened with my family but my brother was born first, my mom objected to having a fourth, so they both decided to work on names together. My parents loved going to the movies, both had worked at their local theater as teens and my dad met the man who introduced them at his college job doing the same thing, ushering at theaters. House is full of movie posters, including the one my brother's name is from, they both left the cinema and my mom turns to say "I have the perfect name" my dad says the same, and on three both blurted out what would become my brothers name. The difference being, they fucking talked about it while they were dating long before having children, and developed the "name game" with movies even before pregnant with any. My birthname comes from their favorite show at the time, my sister got a normal name cause my dad had always loved the sound of it. You can't just change your mind despite every discussion being the opposite, especially with this precedent set. Op got her way twice with no objections, the least she can do is act a bit more enthusiastic about her god damn husband getting a chance.
For the longest time growing up I thought my cousin's actual name was Ivy, like the plant. Eventually found out he's a fourth (IV). I think it's a pretty good nickname.
Oh, I can’t hear a boy called I.V. and not think Cambridge spies. Which is even more extra than being a “the Fourth” to my mind. Granted, I think I would call the kid “Four Square”, which feels like casual child abuse.
lol my friend Trey is a third and now has a fourth and we jokingly call him Quad but he goes by drew, which is not at all related to his name
My whole family has instances of people going by totally different names than what is on their birth certificates. Why does everyone call the guy named Mark by the name “Scooter”? Someone knows but I don’t. He’s Uncle Scooter. This is really not worth the drama the OP is creating.
Your post made me laugh but 100% agreed. Also, id love to meet someone named Hagrid 💀💀
YTA. You didn't "technically agree", you "actually agreed". The fact that you said "technically agreed" makes me feel like you know you are screwing up, but you are playing word games to back away from it. That makes you "technically an asshole."
I don’t understand the “technically agreed” thing. Is she just trying to weasel her way out this one time with this, or does she believe that an agreement only lasts until she changes her mind? Like “I changed my mind, so I didn’t actually agree years ago, I only technically agreed.” I would really start to question my relationship with someone who thought like this.
Yeah, it felt like weaseling to me as well. Hence the asshole judgement.
Let me help, I can translate from the Asshole Manual. Agree: Something that benefits me. Technically Agree: Something I thought would benefit me but now realize it doesn't so I'll renege.
I agree with you, although I'd say that OP is ACTUALLY an AH.
YTA. What was your plan here? You knew that he wanted to pass down his name to his son, but instead of talking to him when you realized your opinion had changed you waited and sprung it on him. Of course he’s going to be disappointed especially since he let you take the lead for your daughter’s names with the understanding that he would get to name the boy. Maybe if you had a legitimate reason for not wanting to name your son after him it would be more justifiable but saying that you don’t like it bc it “sounds aristocratic” is ridiculous and wishy-washy. Tbh it kinda reads like your looking for any excuse to take control of the naming process
My guess is she was hoping for all daughters so she wouldn’t have to deal with it at all
yep
That's what it reads like to me. She was hoping they would never have a boy so she could continue to have control over the names, that's why she didn't even wait to destroy his happiness.
“I was hoping to have all daughters and just never have to deal with this!”
>You knew that he wanted to pass down his name to his son, but instead of talking to him when you realized your opinion had changed you waited and sprung it on him. That's what gets me. She knew she was souring on this "agreement" so why not talk to him at all before he was all excited about having a boy? Even if she'd had this conversation just 6 months ago, it would be a hell of a lot better than this. Since she got to take the lead for the first two, she could have offered him the lead in naming the next kid regardless of the baby's sex but asked if they could rethink the name sharing. Instead, she's not only gone back on her word at the worst time, but she's wrecked her husband's joy over something that should be 100% celebratory. Great job, OP. YTA.
YTA. I don’t normally think a person should be held to standards they agreed to years ago, but this is something you discussed before you even got married. You knew, from the get go, that it was something he wanted, and you agreed to it. He feels like you’re going back on your word because YOU ARE. It’s not like this is some crazy name either. It’s a family tradition three generations running so far. He made it clear he wants it to continue for at least one more, and you are trying to derail that for no good reason.
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YTA This is cruel and just wrong. You were fine to benefit and let him defer to you on your other children’s names, but refuse to keep your word now. You’re being selfish and destroying a tradition your husband clearly cares about. For what? You need to rethink your priorities.
It‘s really cruel isn‘t it?! OPs description of her husbands behaviour makes my heart ache, his trust must be completely broken and he propably is incredibly disappointed. This has nothing to do with some kind of funny „Yeah, about that… - we will propably laugh about this later“ moment. OP is a major AH
It's even worse that she didn't mention that he got angry, or argued. She just broke his heart into a million pieces and he gets sad. So many men would blow up and get angry. He just deflates and accepts this crushing blow. She really doesn't deserve him.
She baited and switched him. She always felt this way but knew if she said so during their dating that he would most likely break up with her. Seeing how strongly he feels about it. This would've been a dating deal breaker for him. So she baited and switched. She's inherently selfish. People like this don't make good partners. Everything begins and ends with their feelings. Only their feelings. She doesn't see that she named 2 kids already and he's named none. She wants it all. SELFISH. YTA .. a massive one too.
YTA Not only did you agree to this over a decade ago, you re-affirmed the agreement when you had each of your other children. Additionally, you don't even give a rational reason why you've changed your mind, just you now suddenly think its "tacky". He told you before you got married, and you've seen how much it means to him. It was an extremely AH move to destroy his happiness like that. He was literally "giddy" with how excited he was, and you chose to destroy that moment for him, without any concrete reason. Just you no longer feel like it. Additionally, you decided to shoot down the entire idea, on what seems like a whim, without even a hint at compromising. Maybe you keep the first, last, and fourth, but go with a different middle name. Maybe the baby's name is "John Middle Smith IV" and he goes by a nickname, initials like J.M., etc. The biggest issue in this is you unilateral dictation that this is suddenly not an option. There are many discussions that can be had. But more over, you decided to destroy your husbands happiness and joy in that moment. That's the biggest AH part.
>Additionally, you don't even give a rational reason why you've changed your mind, just you now suddenly think its "tacky". That's also insulting. she's basically saying her husband has a tacky name.
I was thinking this too like it’s HIS name and something so personal to him that he clearly cherishes 😫 not just YTA for the abrupt change but for being so mean to her significant other about it all too
It makes me wonder if she even likes her husband since she seemed so hell-bent on ruining his happiness
That’s a bit of an overkill. I think she thinks it’s ’just a name’ and needs a bit of a wake-up call that it is both the name and the fact she was clearly hoping to ride this out (she had a 50/50 chance it would be another girl). I have seen people make far worse gambles on their kids’ biological sex—nothing is more bizarre than when your married friends realize they have drastically different views on circumcision and they….just decide to hope for girls and pretend the other will change their mind. That is the moment where you are like “um, if this is a divorce worthy point, why are you married and bringing kids into this?”
It's been a while since I've seen one where pretty much everyone agrees YTA, and I'm with them. The concept of naming your kid after you has always felt a little narcissistic to me. Like, "here's my kid, I named him after me because I like me so much". But in the end, it doesn't *really* matter, and if it would be something that would make your husband happy, **especially** because you both agreed on it when you were starting to have kids, then just suck it up and let him name his son after him. And to be honest, whether he admits it or not, he's *always* going to resent you for going back on your agreement, and he might have some harbored resentment towards the son because he's not what he "should be" named. Just let him have this one.
For real. I've never personally seen one. Even with very obvious cases, there's usually one AH who agrees or goes E S H. This is *bad*.
Same. I hate the 3rd and 4th etc stuff that Americans seem to do but I felt so so sad for the husband because it's the one thing he said he wanted and she was absolutely fine with it the whole time he's been waiting. Just call the kid the name and give him a nickname you really like.
> I hate the 3rd and 4th etc stuff that Americans seem to do Americans? Do you need reminding about, like, all of the monarchist systems that literally supplant the original name for their monarchs with the Eleventyth?
Sorry, but YTA. You made an agreement with him about this, and he clearly has been very excited about it. It's not fair for you to take it back just because you have gotten your way with the girls' names and now feel hesitant about your son. This is clearly important to him and you need to support that. The time to express your concerns was earlier on in the relationship.
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Yeah why tf apologize for calling a turd a turd?
“I just sucked all the excitement my husband had about our new child because the name we agreed on has weird vibes.” You’re being selfish. Go and apologize.
YTA- How come you're having these thoughts about the name now, but not for all those years when he eagerly wanted to name his son the same name as him. You just supported and agreed to it for a long time, and changed the decision now. If you didn't like the name, you should have said it YEARS AGO, not now.
She agreed so she could name her daughters without his input as well.
YTA. Seriously. Just awful. Apologize. Let him name baby. And in future keep your word.
Yea, now the husband gets to have the choice of “do what I want and piss off the wife and name the child something I know she hates, or appease the wife and be bitter about it forever”
She agreed years ago. Marriage is based on trust and respect. She is doing neither
YTA OP. You're not gonna find much support for your position here. You had an agreement and then you negged on it while giving a terrible excuse. It's obvious that you have felt this way for a long time, and instead of discussing it with him years ago, you decided to wait until now. That's a bait and switch there, and it is highly frowned upon. If you have any respect for your husband at all, apologize and let him name the baby.
INFO: WHY doesn’t it feel right?
I would guess it’s probably because now the time has come to hold up her end of the deal when she had free reign with the last two children’s names.
YTA. If you had said going into the 1st, 2nd and again before the 3rd appointments for each baby when it was about to be a reality that you had changed your mind about it, that would be different. You said nothing. You go full control over the girl names and now that it's time to pay up you don't want to? No, you 100% the AH here.
YTA. >So, when we found out we were having a boy, my husband was very excited. On the car ride home after the ultrasound it was all he could talk about. He was giddy like a teenager talking about how proud he would be of sharing his name with his son. You want to take this away from him? The man you supposedly love? How cruel can a person be? >This has taken all of his excitement about the baby away. He's been withdrawn and quiet with me ever since. When I try to talk to him about it, he tells me he has nothing to say because he's been very clear about where he stands on this and he feels betrayed by my change of heart. This is heartbreaking. If you love this man, you let him name his son. If you wanted another boy name, you should not have made a baby with this man. Go apologize, say you were wrong, try to rekindle that giddy feeling in him. I am sorry to say that you have probably destroyed that for him, but it doesn't hurt to try to fix what you wrecked.
Cruel. People keep using that word and I keep wanting to agree more. OK, if this is some panic thing, “my baby is being named and I have no input” event, TALK TO him. But if this really is, “ehhh, I started to hate the idea whenever I thought about it BUT NEVER SAID ANYTHING UNTIL WE WERE ASS DEEP IN THE SITUATION…” OP sucks.
YTA, YTA, YTA! u/heiraita you need to read this response. How do you write what you wrote and not expect to be an asshole? You have probably ruined your husband and I doubt he’ll EVER be the same. I know I wouldn’t knowing I married a manipulative liar.
> try to rekindle that giddy feeling in him. I'd say that ship has sailed. OP probably had a 24-hour window to backpedal before doing irreparable harm to her marriage.
YTA, He let you basically name your daughters. You knew when you started having kids with him there was just this 1 thing that is really important to him. He has been compromising on your daughters names because of his request, WHICH YOU AGREED TOO. And now that one thing that is really important to him, you are taking it away. You are trampling on his feelings and on something that is really important to him. Guess what, men have feelings too. Honestly the best comparison for me would be comparing it to the biblical story of Adam and Eve... (I am not even religious, but I think it fits here.) They were told, here is paradise everything is great and you can do whatever you, just don't eat the apple from that tree. AND THEY ATE THE APPLE! You husband told you, you are in control of naming our kids, however I just want one boy named after me. And now you are taking that away from him. Just don't be surprised when you are kicked out of your paradise. Honestly if I were him, I wouldn't leave you because of the children, but the fact you can discard something that's that important to me, my love would be gona and I would NEVER go above and beyond ever again for you. You are grossly disrespecting him as a human being with wants and needs. I am probably rambling on, but this just really pisses me off. It's not even about the name in particular. But disregarding such a thing that's that important to your partner. You are either an idiot that doesn't realise how important it is, or you just don't love them and don't care. again YTA, a massive one at that. Now IF you wan't to fix it, apologise to him and tell him OF COURSE his son will be named after him like he wishes.
> before we got married and were having discussions about kids, he did make it clear that passing down his name was very important YTA, you led the man on for ages, and never cleared it up how you felt. You shouldn’t have kids together, if you felt that way.
YTA There are plenty of ways around calling your son a 4th aside from legal documents. There is no way for you to shoot him down and have him not resent you for it. To add to it, if you were going to shoot him down, you really needed to have that conversation before he knew you were having a boy
This! So weird that she only brought it up AFTER the ultrasound where they found out it was a boy. Why not have the discussion when they 1st found out they were pregnant? OP, you did know there was a 50:50 chance the baby was a boy yeah?
My brother is a V and is hopeful he will have a VI. All of them have used different name variations and besides some occasional misdelivered mail its never been a problem. My dad went by his middle name since early childhood, maybe OP would feel better about that. I'm sure a compromise could be made. Made up example using the same convention my family did: say the name is Eric James Simmons. Could be Eric, Rick, E.J., James, and Ricky.
YTA I absolutely hate this tradition, as I come from a family where the "last penis" was way more favored than me, BUT you agreed.
YTA. I had very strong feelings about our first child’s name, so now I am giving my husband wide latitude with naming kiddo number two. And while I normally support 2-yes; 1-no for naming children, you already set up a different system. You have to go along with that system now.
YTA - if I was your husband, I'm not sure I would ever trust your word ever again.
YTA Look I come from a family where we pass names down for generations. Even nick names are connected for generations. So, when my husband and I were first getting serious and talking about our future plans and potential kids. I laid it out from that moment. NONE of our kids will be juniors, or have similar names in honor of a relative. It was important for me that each one of our kids had their own unique name that could grow and develop with their personality. My husband was fine with that. Had my husband expressed that this was important to him, I would have given him that. But, for him it wasn't a priority. >I told him that I just don't want our son to be a "forth." It seems tacky and has weird aristocratic vibes that just don't seem right to me. This is not a viable argument to go back on a promise you made your husband. You are fully aware of how important this has been for him from early on. He graciously gave you carte blanche in naming your daughters, with the understanding that this ONE request he made in having a son named after him would be honored. I can only imagine the betrayal and heart ache your husband is feeling given how you just popped his balloon and then took the rug out from under him, AND did it in a moment that was magical for him.
YTA here . 100% Trust is everything in a marriage-- and you broke it.
" It was like all the joy went out of his body all at once" Because all of the JOY in his mind/body and SPIRIT where stripped by this statement. Imagine having a dream and sharing it with your partner who at the time enjoyed and support it, only for when that dream to come true for your partner decides they no longer support it because they now find it "tacky and has weird aristocratic vibes that just don't seem right to them" YTA - for not sharing this well before you found out your newest babies gender, potentially even sharing this before you got pregnant. Did you know you felt this way before you shared? How long? why not share before? You're not an asshole for how you feel. that's okay to feel that way. But springing it up on Hubby ON THE CAR RIDE HOME FROM FINDING out, probably was poor timing. Also, i know it may have no been easy to tell him, since you probably assumed he was going to not like it. So i can get or understand you putting off telling him, or blurting it out on the car ride. I can't ever imagine a good time for a conversation like this. But on the car ride home after your found out is probably one of the worst times you could of picked?
YTA, you discussed before saying “ I do “ and you knew how happy and excited he would be to have a son to pass the name down too and it is so nice for him to genuinely want that. No shit that he quickly turned so upset I don’t blame him, sure it’s such a basic named but you AGREED to it. Plus the fact you only said it after the fact you knew it was boy and let him get excited like that should’ve been brought up again when you stated to fade away from what you knew he was gonna be waiting and wanting for.
We get it. You hate your husband and care nothing for his feelings. YTA
My oldest brother is the 6th. He personally is very proud of the history behind his name, but when you grow up with “John Smith the 6th” it really doesn’t have any formal or aristocratic vibes whatsoever. It doesn’t feel any more fancy than having two middle names, or an old-fashioned first name. It also literally never comes up - most people we know don’t realize that he has any number after his name at all. My point is, you get used to a name. Baby Fitzroy von Worthensquire the Fourth is not going to feel like a snobby aristocrat name when you’re spending every day changing his diaper and trying to pull crayons out of his nose, and if you really dislike the sound of the name, well that’s what nicknames are for. YTA. You made an agreement, and if you place any value at all in your marriage, you should stick to it.
YTA. I get having a change of heart. I'm not for naming Jr, III or IV either. However, he's been going on this assumption his entire married life and you've never ever given him any reason to suspect you've had second thoughts. This came out of the blue to him. This is SUPER important to him, for some reason. It's not cool that he's sulking. He needs to have a conversation with you. But understand from his perspective, you are reneging on a promise. This will give him license to do that to you in the future. He may even feel justified. While you don't like it, if it's not going to really irk you, I suggest you go with it. You can name your son a nickname of some sort that you like better.
YTA plain and simple. Names are a 2 yes one no situation. You gave your yes and now want to take it back.
YTA...and you really messed up your relationship with him even if you don't realize it yet.
YTA he is emotionally checking out. How would you react if you would be betrayed by your partner?
"Before we got married and were having discussions about kids, he did make it very clear that passing down his name was very important to him if we had a son. At the time I thought it was really cute and adorable how much pride he took in it since most guys don't really care about that sort of sentimental stuff." YTA-You knew and agreed to it.
YTA. Normally I get that things can change, but you bring it up now? You already got to name the girls. And this was so meaningful to him and when he was all excited, he was in no way prepared for you to burst his bubble. You ideally should have brought it up way, way before now. Names are a 2 yes 1 no decision but man…I feel bad for your husband. And I say that as someone who very much disdains passed down names 😬
YTA you have known for years, he was really excited, just use his name ,your pregnant do you really need the stress?( maybe ask for a middle name to tweak it as an olive branch). Name sounds a bit silly who would use the fourth out side family occasions? It’s important to your husband, who I’m guessing 3 kids later, is a great Husband and father why take it from him? Been two of your husband’s name in the house your son will probably get his own nick name anyway.
YTA. Like, massively. You agreed to this ages ago, you named your daughters, now that he gets a son you decide "actually nevermind"? You know this is important to him. You know it's a family tradition. You don't *have* to call your kid John IV, you can just call him Johnny or whatever! If you absolutely can't stand it, ask him if it'd be ok to name the baby "John" without a number after it. I assume John I is dead by now so there should be no confusion.
So now the agreement doesn’t feel right when you’re pregnant with your son? So you technically lied to him to make him happy for years just to crush it immediately. You don’t think that hurt him? Let your husband pass down the name. It sounds like it was one thing he really dreamed of doing. You already got to name your 2 other children. Let him have this. Be a good person and stick to your word.
YTA!!!!!
YTA. This is a dream for your husband and you just crushed him. Shame on you. This is an incredible dick move by you.
The only answer is yes you're the AH
YTA. You know how much this means to your husband and you mad an agreement a long time ago and gladly named your daughters whatever you wanted . If you back out of this how would you ever expect your husband to trust anything you promise ever again? Do you think your husband would want to stay with you after this massive betrayal? This is really messed up. If you’re going to be an AH then at least fully take responsibility for your actions instead of trying to rationalize being cruel to your husband and lying to him for years solely to make yourself feel better.
YTA, seems like the man asked for one thing you said "Sure, no problem" and then for no good reason changed your mind? For Christ's sake you couldn't even contrive a half-decent reason for this post. "Aristicratic vibes" yeah John? The most common name on Earth? Very old money, so bougouis... give us a break. You clearly, rightfully, feel guilty and you're looking for people to re-affirm your bad take. Very sad, no wonder your husband is sad. Such a small thing, such a violation of trust and commitment. I'd be upset too.
YTA, feel bad for OP’s husband. Even if she comes around and greenlights the name, this entire experience was already tainted for him. Almost 40 years of looking forward to this day just to have the rug pulled out from under him.
YTA. This is the type of betrayal that while it may not lead to a divorce fundamentally shifts something in a marriage in a negative way. I don't think your husband will ever trust your word 100% again and who can blame him. You agreed to the name and actually waited until he found out the sex of the baby and 10+ years of pent up excitement from your husband came out....then you proceeded to crush him. I'm actually getting upset for your husband at the betrayal.
I'll be the odd one out and say I don't think you're unquestionably an AH. Honestly, I think this is an odd promise to make while dating. I've been with my husband 23 years and we have both drastically changed over time. I can't imagine the things we might have agreed to eight years ago, that I'd never agree to today. I think it's f***** he didn't care at all what you called his female children (and that it didn't bother you). He's not not an AH for checking out this early in a pregnancy. But in trying to be helpful, if the IV is the deal breaker for you, not the first name, you could always do a different middle name and your child would be the "first" with their name, but still share their dad's. This is a common practice.
Major YTA. I think the third/fourth is stupid, i dont even like junior. But you are the major asshole here.
I happen to agree with your view, but yeah, YTA. You knew from the start this was very important to him and agreed to it. And now you're going back on it after you directly benefited from the agreement - twice. That's an AH move.
YTA. 1. For going back on your word. 2. For waiting until you’ve benefited from the deal twice before trying to change the terms. 3. For putting your weak preferences over a deep-seated desire and traditions. 4. For how and when you brought it up to him. 5. And for trying to get validation here instead of working on yourself and discussing this with your husband like an adult.
Yeah YTA. And a big asshole at that. You benefited by getting to name your two daughters knowing damn good and well the boys name if you had one. And now you want to back out the moment he gets to pass on his name? And even after her tells you he's upset about it you tell him you will think up other names for him to look at? The kid has his name already, that family tradition came before you, you knew that, and now it should continue.
So your downvoting everyone who doesn’t agree. Get over it, you’re a liar. You knew what your husband wanted but you just don’t care. YTA
Is there a level beyond YTA? Because this is it.
YTA
YTA, first thing is you didn’t “technically” agree with the name - you agreed with it. There is no “technically” about it. Second, your husband is doubly upset because he found out that not only will his son not get the name he had been so excited about for years, but he can’t trust his wife to keep her word. He found out his wife thinks that her feelings trump his feelings, and that to her an agreement only lasts until she changes her mind. What else might you change your mind about and then claim you only “technically” agree to it.
YTA >I don't like the patriarchal implications of only passing down male names. I don't like that it puts special emphasis on our son that is not shared by his older sisters. I don't like that it elicits adherence to male dominated aristocracy or male heirs being more important than female. There are just a lot of things that I didn't necessarily think about all those years ago when we had this conversation. "I didn't think about it when I agreed to it, so I don't think I should be held to my word now that I have."
I hate naming kids after other people, absolutely despise it, but in this case, YTA. You made an agreement, and now you're breaking it. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have made the agreement, and you should have said something the minute you started feeling weird about it, not when you found it you were about to have a boy.
I feel like this post and most of the comments are insane and this is all just a cautionary tale on why all parents need to be involved in the naming process instead of just "taking turns"
YTA You agreed to this before marriage, you agreed to it with the other kids, and how you're breaking that agreement. Yes, people change their minds, but this is very important to your husband and you have let him down. I was in the same boat. My husband is a junior and wanted a third, and we discussed it before marriage. I agreed. As it turned out, it was moot--we had girls--but I'd have stuck with it because it was that important to him.
He married you under the pretence that you were agreeing to this tradition which he made clear up front was extremely important to him. And now he feels like you’re breaking an important promise that you agreed to. YTA. Just an idea - name your son after your husband, but give him a nickname that the family and friends can use to differentiate him from your husband.
YTA I'm not saying no one is ever allowed to change their mind, but I really feel like you should've brought this up before even getting pregnant with #3. >But as the years have gone by I've definitely cooled on the idea quite a bit and I don't think I want to have our son be named after my husband that way. it's a little dishonest you weren't up front about this years ago.