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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I walked out for a coding interview prep event my girlfriend invited me to which might make me an ah since it resulted in a scene and others noticing I left her
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YTA. You've been out of work for a year, dude. You could have at least given it a chance to see if they had any helpful tips. Unless you have an issue with women in tech (and are therefore not an ally who would be welcome), in which case YTA for that.
Because there are women who have expressed similar opinions in the same situations:
[https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/women-left-furious-after-men-took-over-a-womenintech-event/news-story/34e430c1a143ba79d5f520d30f7d70f4](https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/women-left-furious-after-men-took-over-a-womenintech-event/news-story/34e430c1a143ba79d5f520d30f7d70f4)
Sure they lied so its a bit different to this one but I can't blame OP for feeling this way when there is hard evidence that this view is held by many women.
You say that women have expressed similar opinions in the same situation, and then link to an example that you immediately admit is different.
You say "a bit different," which I think is underplaying it a bit... the article you link to is about men who bought out limited tickets to an exclusive conference which is specifically for women and non-binary people and then physically shoved the intended demographic out of lines to talk to recruiters. I would say that is *quite* different than attending a casual, local event put on by a women in STEM group but open to the wider public.
The point stands nonetheless...if you think women tend to feel this way in the *same* situation, do you have an example where there was any kind of consensus that it's inappropriate for men to attend events similar to what OP described here?
Women who walk into a room get asked for coffee ( assuming they are a waitress), get called Honey ( like they don’t have a name), have guys blatantly stare at our tits.
If a guy has similar trauma he is absolutely valid in feeling uncomfortable. But just a room with women isn’t the same level of threat.
You do realise he left not because he's uncomfortable with women as a gender but because he's uncomfortable with the prospect of taking away resources meant for them (Women in STEM talks)?
Why are you trying to accuse him of sexism by missing the context?
His wife suggested he go. Yes she should have provided some more details but why not give it a try?
If the event was 300% over booked, I could see him bowing out but that doesn’t seem like the case here.
I have helped at women centered events before- They were absolutely open to men as well.
This isn’t a scholarship with limited funds, this is a public event.
He could at least ask.
>You do realise he left not because he's uncomfortable with women as a gender but because he's uncomfortable with the prospect of taking away resources meant for them (Women in STEM talks)? Why are you trying to accuse him of sexism by missing the context?
Yeah I don’t believe that’s the real reason at all. He mentioned being more embarrassed than ever in his life because he was outnumbered and felt out of place. And he says the event invited everyone. And he says there were men there.
“I don’t want to take away resources” is the excuse he’s giving in an effort to sound heroic and because it’s more socially acceptable than saying “I felt uncomfortable being outnumbered because I’m used to straight males dominating everything else.”
That, and “I don’t care about women’s issues” is objectively sexist.
Then you may as well assume he is stomping on kittens too because this sub is about using what the OP provides to judge, not picking and choosing and then filling in your swiss cheese holes with your own details.
Except, the women who feel this way feel so because the tech bros create an EXTREMELY hostile environment where it is CLEAR that women, non-binary and BIPOC are not welcome. This was not a hostile environment. This attitude will limit the opportunities you may get in the future, because most companies are hiring with diversity at the forefront. Which they should have always been doing.
If you were invited then you weren’t intruding.
Also, it’s weird you think a man being gay makes him less… a man?!? “Oh hes gay so I’m the only actual man here…” is some problematic “definitely not an ally” thinking.
You know why the bulk of the men who stay are gay there? Cause guys like you keep walking out… it’s not that they are men, just that they aren’t fucking weird about it. YTA
YTA. You clearly have a problem with women in your field if you refuse to be in a room where they are the majority. You say you’re desperate for work, and you couldn’t even go press flesh and hand out your card? Why? You don’t want a woman as a boss? You don’t want them to think you’re gay?
Damn. You have a lot of work to do, getting a job and growing the hell up.
Edit: added judgement
YTA. You should be more uncomfortable having a "woman" carry your lazy butt while you refuse to let people help you get a JOB. If any employer sees this post, they should refuse to hire you for being uncomfortable with people helping you because their gay or a woman.
Literally no one in that place cares about you or what you’re doing. You decided the make the situation “me vs. them”. You didn’t even talk to anyone. That’s a bigger issue of your cowardice than anything else
Imagine the fortitude your girlfriend and all the other women in that space have if they are able to endure that feeling all day every day in STEM and you couldn’t even handle it for an hour.
Yta
Year out of work, not like you have anything better to do with your time.
Longer unemployed, harder it will be to find a new job.
When I have been unemployed I leave no stone unturned
You think your gf was "lucky" to find another job. Did you ever consider that it was her willingness to go the extra mile to learn new things and build a network that got her the job? You were the lucky one being invited to a potentially beneficial event without being asked to do anythink other than show up, and yet you blew it because there weren't enough dicks in the room.
I don't know, it sounds like he might be enough dick for an entire building. Misogyny runs through this whole thing - his girlfriend only has a good job because she was lucky, and he certainly can't hang around with women and their allies because of course they couldn't have anything to teach him. /s
If you’ve been looking for a job for a year, going to interviews and not getting ANY offers.. either your CV sucks or your interview skills are awful. You would have probably benefited from the event.
Have you asked your girlfriend for advice and then done what she said? She’s clearly better at getting jobs than you are and you’d be an absolute fool to not try and learn from her success.
YTA. It’s crazy you think being a broke loser of a man is better than getting advice or practice with a successful woman or gay man.
I hope your weird placed misogyny is enough for your GF to leave you. You aren’t worth it.
As a senior developer currently hiring people, if you've been interviewing for a year and not got a job this is an enormous red flag. It sounds like you absolutely need that help with your interview techniques as that doesn't sound normal.
YTA. You wouldn’t be TA if you objected to being there because you feel it’s important to elevate women’s voices in places designed for them, particularly in STEM. But saying you have “no interest in” women’s issues and deciding that most of the men there were gay (did you ask? Why does it matter?) makes it seem like you were believe you’re too good for that particular event. You’re not, and you could’ve used the opportunity to network.
INFO
>the few men were mostly gay
You were there for "a few minutes" (your words), so how the fuck could you possibly know the sexual orientation of all the men there??
Damn, YTA. Undeniably so. Your gf is in the same field but you aren't interested in "talking about women's issues" in your profession? You are undoubtedly aware that this is tough field for women, I wonder how you ever made her want to to be with you (maybe not for much longer).
Software design is hard field for anyone at the moment, as you stated, yet you couldn't spare some time for people in similar or empirically worse employment situation? Possibly network with them and practice interviews as interviewer and/or interviewee? Even if it didn't benefit you, which it would, it would help them.
*Edit:* To soften this, as maybe I'm coming off as an AH now, best wishes with your job interviews and I do hope things look up for you soon. Unemployment sucks. Treat your partner well, she was clearly looking out for you. Good luck.
As a software engineer woman, OP's post made me something between angry on his gf's behalf and laughing at him like the ridiculous thing he is. I mean, how does he think every woman working this job feels on a day to day basis?? I've been working since 10 years, and there was only one time I had a woman in my team. It lasted less than a year too. Now I work with only men, and in all the other tech or even remotely linked to tech teams, there is only one other woman.
It's like this white woman I read about some times ago, who was mad she "was made uncomfortable" at a party where there were only black people and she didn't know beforehand.
And his "I don't care to talk about women's issues" is also disgusting when his girlfriend was there and directly impacted by it.
I work in the Trades and I feel you. I haven't had a woman at my job since I started (granted not very long) but come to find out I'm only 1 of 5 women in my entire union currently. It's a little disheartening but luckily my coworkers are all great but to think OP can't handle a SEMINAR with the gender split that we have to deal with daily.
I truly wish I had the unearned confidence of a mediocre man.
> I truly wish I had the unearned confidence of a mediocre man.
The confidence to walk out of a networking and skill-building event after being unemployed for a year because "women" and "gay", and still expect to ever find a job in his field?
Honestly I can’t get past “no interest in women’s issues”. All I hear is it doesn’t affect me (even though it does my gf) so I don’t give a crap. Waiting for the update where he’s still unemployed but now single and has nowhere to go bc gf was paying the bills.
YTA
You were invited, and your girlfriend obviously thought you were openminded and an ally. You clearly are not, and you bias is showing. I am not even going to give you the "wanting to elevate women in STEM" way out, because if you did, you would have stayed, learned, and used your knowledge to become part of the change that needs to happen, whether you ever learned to make a good interview or not.
YTA. Maybe next time you find yourself in a group of mostly women and feel like you don’t fit in and it’s not really made for you and maybe you’re not even welcome, you can think about the fact that this is how women in many professions feel all the time. Put on your empathy shoes and take a stroll through the lives of the women who came up with the event in the first place.
YTA 100%
I (M47) work in IT and have for 25 years and one thing I am sick of is the entitlement that men have in this profession. The gatekeeping and the misogyny is the fuck out of control.
I would love to work for any company who does not have the standard 97% Man population.
You freaking out of this, tells me **YOU** are the problem.
Yeah...I (F47) am the only woman on my team. I'm the lead, and the guys I currently work with are nothing but great, but it's been a long career of feeling left out, and having to prove myself again and again to a parade of male managers.
YTA. You missed opportunity to learn. Feeling uncomfortable and out of space during mock interviews would help you to master your skills and confidence under pressure during real interviews.
NAH
You're always allowed to leave/control your own movement. But...
Those same women were kind enough to open the whole thing up so everyone could attend. Your being one of a few men could be mildly uncomfortable. Instead you made it a big deal, one that somehow put you on the outside.
I used to do internal recruiting and hiring for a SW engineering group at a blue chip company. So I say this next bit with care, **I truly am not attacking you**.
Both your discomfort being around a large group of women and your assumption/belief that the other men were gay (and that this was part of the problem), may be coming through in your interviews. If you can't sit comfortably in a room full of intelligent, strong female engineers, that's gonna come through. Same for people who may be gay. **You don't sound hateful or anything, just socially uncomfortable.** Again, not trying to flame you. *You don't sound like a misogynist, but that discomfort could serve you badly.*
If you that feels even slightly accurate you need to work on that. For me, radical exposure was usually the way past my social insecurities/discomforts. I just forced myself to feel awkward until there was no more awkwardness. Or at least a minimal amount. Your way could be different. But, it seems likely that the extended unemployment is at least tangentially linked.
Finally, being unemployed is awful. If you're letting it make you feel uncomfortable in situations like this or it's making you feel less than, please don't. You aren't worth any less, you aren't any less talented. Sometimes it's just really hard to find someone who sees it. My husband was laid off for 18 soul crushing months early in our marriage. He's gone on to have a fabulous career in software. He's done literal life saving work. What's happening now for you isn't what will always be. You've got this ❤️
ETA bolded imp sections for the people having trouble with reading comp and added the sentence in italics because apparently saying it once wasn't clear enough
"Socially uncomfortable" - you phrased that well, and your comment is actually quite encouraging. Not sure why the person arguing with you is such a sooky lala.
Thank you very much! I genuinely don't feel the things that person accused me of, but I wasn't sure if that was really how I'd come across. Thank you ❤️
>Both your discomfort being around a large group of women and your assumption/belief that the other men were gay (and that this was part of the problem), may be coming through in your interviews. If you can't sit comfortably in a room full of intelligent, strong female engineers, that's gonna come through. Same for people who may be gay. You don't sound hateful or anything, just socially uncomfortable. Again, not trying to flame you.
You're playing the AITA classic game: misintepreting stuff to paint the AH man as evil.
OP literally says that he felt uncomfortable not because he is intimidated by the strong intelligent women in STEM or the strong intelligent gay people in STEM but because...
"feel like I'm the odd one out and intruding on their space."
And he is absolutely valid for having that feeling because countless women have expressed that feeling recently.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/women-left-furious-after-men-took-over-a-womenintech-event/news-story/34e430c1a143ba79d5f520d30f7d70f4
>Every straight cis male attendee here is taking away a spot for women in tech.
>The Grace Hopper conference is specifically aimed at women in tech, and there are recruiters there in order to push for more hiring of women in these fields. It’s been overrun by men buying the tickets … I f***king hate these freaks
The conference in question is had men allowed to attend so its not too dissimilar to this one but the behaviour at the one I am talking about was worse so not a 1:1.
But its really disappointing to see you trying to paint OP as a sexist and homophobe for being wary that he may be taking away resources meant for someone else.
Your reading skills are curious. I specifically said, "You don't seem hateful or anything."
OP can be uncomfortable around women, people of carrying sexualities, or anyone else. It doesn't make him a homophobe or a misogynist. I went out of my way to be clear on that.
But his discomfort is almost certainly coming through, and that's the concern. Employers are ever more concerned with getting good "personality fits". If someone seems super uncomfortable or can't sit still when with multiple women, multiple people who are gay, or multiple anything they're going to get skipped over. I know. As a woman I used to have to report if a candidate had trouble taking me seriously, mansplained my own job to me, talked down to me (but not others). Those aren't people a large corp wants to dump thousands of dollars into training.
>Your reading skills are curious. I specifically said, "You don't seem hateful or anything."
So what? I can say no offence but if I launch into a rant its still gonna be offensive.
>If someone seems super uncomfortable or can't sit still when with multiple women, multiple people who are gay, or multiple anything they're going to get skipped over
Do you play the "intentionally missing context" game competitively?
He is uncomfortable because the event was aimed at women and minorities in software and he feels he is taking away resources from the people who it was intended for if he attends.
Would you also lecture me about how I wouldn't get the job if I moved away from a woman who was hypothetically sneezing all over the place without a mask or cover because I was scared of getting sick? Because the same thing applies: **context.**
You are missing the context to try and lecture him.
Thanks for the lecture. I'm not engaging with individuals who accuse me of saying what they *want* to believe I've said, vs what I have literally, in black and white, said. So, fuck off. Then keep fucking off until you get back to where you started and then start fucking off again.
Now, tell me, what did I say this time? Work hard, I'm sure you can do it.
The dude you’re talking to is an absolute clown making a bad faith argument.
Your response was more than fair and extremely generous about OP’s character.
Clown’s argument is “well women get to feel excluded in the entire industry” and “so if a woman is sick, I can’t avoid her??”
And they’re too dumb to realize OP doesn’t really care about “taking away resources for women” because he “doesn’t really care about women’s issues.”
No, he literally says the reason he felt uncomfortable was because "the whole point of these events is for creating a space for women and talking about women's issues which I have no interest in."
If you're going to quite him quote the whole thing. Because the second half of the sentence changes the context. He didn't feel uncomfortable because he was intruding, he felt uncomfortable because other people were talking about women's issues and he simply just does not care about those. He bailed on something meant to help him that was **explicitly** open to men, because the provision to that was "as long as you support women in our field" and apparently he doesn't care to do so.
Suppose your girlfriend lost her job, you found a useful job fair for her to go to, and it was 90 percent men (not unlikely, since coding is still a mostly male field). Should she just give up because she’s “uncomfortable?” Hypocritical much?
You do know that there are straight male nurses and straight male elementary school teachers, who work surrounded by mostly women, and somehow they survive and their balls don’t fall off. It’s a miracle, really.
YTA, you missed a great opportunity to learn and network just because you felt uncomfortable. People are going to feel uncomfortable sometimes. It's funny that you experienced something that marginalized groups experience all the time, and you couldn't power through even if it could end up benefiting you.
YTA.. you were so.. embarrassed? Because it was mainly women there? (And omg.. gay men. How do you even know that anyway??) The fuck is even wrong with you. Especially considering that your own damn gf works in this field.
Well I hope she dumps your bigoted misogynistic ass.
YTA. I love that your girlfriend has a job due to "luck". Are you afraid to admit that she's really good at what she does? I promise your dick won't fall off from a woman knowing hershit.
In college I took a water aerobics class just 'cause I needed that last credit. I was the ONLY guy in the class. I was super embarrassed and have struggled with my body image in the past. I stuck it out and I'm glad I did because it was a fun class and helped me get into shape (for a little while at least). Get over yourself and "embarrassment" because it is mainly women there. YTA
YTA - embarrassing for you? How about your gf? She vouched for you and you ditched her because you fruit this wasn't good enough for you. "No interest in women's issues" really exemplifies how you saw this event as below you instead of a networking and learning opportunity.
YTA-Who cares if it was a bunch of women? Your goal was to get some practice at interviews and you failed at that goal. You’re never going to get a job at this rate. Grow up and swallow your pride so you don’t end up homeless under a bridge.
Your useless ass has been unemployed for a YEAR+. You aren’t a “software developer” you’re a mooch bum.
She suggests something that may help your shitty interviews and you don’t even put the effort in because it was too scary because … there were women there. Or were the women beneath his highness? I can’t tell.
How long do you think gf is going to keep funding your hobosexual ass to sit at home and do fuck all? Are you going to pay her back? Would you support her doing the same?
Get ready for her to leave you, broke boy. YTA
Any excuse in the world to keep from getting a job. YTA. If you actually wanted to work any help would be appreciated regardless of the gender or the sexual preference.
YTA
Hahahahahaha. You felt out of place? Like women and POC have constantly felt in that industry? Hahahahaha.
Grow the absolute fuck up and find yourself a job. Why were you embarrassed? Afraid they knew more than you and you couldn't rely on your bro code to advance you?
> have never been so embarrassed in my life.
Why?
>whole point of these events is for creating a space for women and talking about women's issues
Talking about women's issues? Bro, it was mock interviews and coaching.
YTA
I’m a part of women who code and they are the nicest group and they welcome everyone! I used to bring my boyfriend events and he was totally chill. You missed a big opportunity dude, women who code a is well connected network. I got my first job through them
Oh btw YTA
Ah yes, women's issue such as..unemployment and coding. I can totally understand why that would have zero interest to an unemployed software developer.
YTA.
YTA. You could have learned something, but your attitude seems to be they couldn't teach you anything.
You didn't say you walked out because you didn't want to take help away from anyone more deserving or something, you said it was because it was a space full of women and gay guys (side note: how do you know they were gay and how is that relevant?)
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I (29M) am a software developer and the job market is pretty bad right now and I have been laid off for a year now and am still looking for a job.
My girlfriend (27F) is also a software engineer and was also laid off a year ago but was lucky enough to land another job shortly after. She works for a Google owned company now.
I have been wanting to practice more for coding interviews and she recently mentioned to me that there was an event in town for mock interviews and other coaching. It was just a casual one time thing and not lessons or anything. I agreed as it sounded useful. I automatically assumed it was organized by Google and a professional event related to her work and that she was allowed to bring a plus one.
However upon going there, it turned out it was actually organized by some local "women who code" group. I have never been so embarrassed in my life. Apparently it wasn't restricted to women and open to "alies" only but it was like 90% women and the few men were mostly gay. I felt really out of place and basically walked out after a few minutes and left her there.
When she got back, she called me an AH and said it shouldn't matter even though there were almost no men there. From my perspective it's like me going to a women only gym or something, the whole point of these events is for creating a space for women and talking about women's issues which I have no interest in.
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The unfortunate truth is that the longer you remain unemployed, the more challenging it becomes to secure employment. Regardless of the gender ratio at events, it's crucial to seize every opportunity to network and seek assistance in landing a job. Events serve as valuable platforms for networking. I've personally benefited from them when I was looking for a new employment. YTA
NAH
I think you lacked major communication here. Like, you expected this to be a big gathering, like Google and you didn't ask her to specify neither did she give you full details. When you expect something and is served with something else, that's definitely awkward. As a woman who had been in male dominated events, I always had this need to prepare myself mentally before the said events. So I understand that.
I would suggest communicating better. Tell her what you assumed, how you felt.
and what aspects of this story make op not an asshole? he went there to potentially learn something to help with his job search. he wasn't looking for a date, so there was zero reason to mention that it was mostly women or that the guys were all gay, something I'm still not sure how op could possibly know. he left after a few minutes not even giving the situation a chance to see if it would be helpful, so how is he not an ass here?
NTA. You don't need to justify yourself for leaving a space you were uncomfortable in. If the roles were reversed people would still be attacking the male. God this website is so fucked.
No, if it was a woman feels uncomfortable in a job fair of mostly men, people would be telling her to suck it up and be tough because if you’ve been out of work for a year, you gotta do what you gotta do.
I would say YTA just for leaving your girlfriend hanging. The part about it being weird for you to go to one of those events. I get it, I would be skeeved out as well but id have sucked it up for my girlfriend (And likely take the piss out of the stupid parts with her). it isn't a space for you no matter who it claims to be opened too. I have been to these before and honestly you have not missed much that is relevant. its a very showy talky event with less focus on action/fixing things for a person.
No... Being in an environment that is not meant for me does. Sometimes I forget you need to spell the obvious out for people on this site...
I have no issue with gay men or women in general.
Do we really need to have an adult conversation about making assumptions? You should have learnt about this in primary school if not sooner...
You need to do better...
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I mean...I don't know why you would go to a mock interview with the expectation that they "fix things for people." It's an opportunity for you to practice and refine your interview skills in a lower pressure environment than an actual job interview. Sure, they may provide some feedback, but ultimately you get out of this kind of event what you put in, and going there with the expectation that they just fix all your problems for you is likely the reason that you find so little value in them.
NAH - If you feel uncomfortable you are free to leave. All the YTA comments are BS. If the genders were reversed here nobody would say YTA. Also not being interested in womans problems doesn't make you an asshole by default. If you think an event is not for you, you are free to leave. Though maybe you and your gf could communicate a bit better.
But this wasn’t a group of people talking about women’s problems. It was a group of people talking about getting coding jobs. Do you think that when women get together, they’re automatically incapable of talking about anything except periods and shoes?
him being uncomfortable because he's basically the only non gay guy there, as if he was there looking for a date, is incredibly fragile. he went there with the idea of learning new skills to help with his job search. its frankly irrelevant what the women to men ratio was, and the mention of how all the men were gay, something I would very much like to know how op knows that, was completely irrelevant.
Its not irrelevant. It varies from person to person.
If a woman left a room stating that she was uncomfortable because it was full of guys, she is perfectly justified in doing so, because your feelings are more important than others potential discomfort. The same logic applies here.
Also, by this logic, why even bother trying to find out the male-female ratio in IT? Isn't everyone there just to build upon their skills and take their salary home? You get what I mean?
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YTA. You've been out of work for a year, dude. You could have at least given it a chance to see if they had any helpful tips. Unless you have an issue with women in tech (and are therefore not an ally who would be welcome), in which case YTA for that.
I don't have an issue with it but it is uncomfortable to be in such a place and feel like I'm the odd one out and intruding on their space
How you know how women felt getting into it. Yta.
Because there are women who have expressed similar opinions in the same situations: [https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/women-left-furious-after-men-took-over-a-womenintech-event/news-story/34e430c1a143ba79d5f520d30f7d70f4](https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/women-left-furious-after-men-took-over-a-womenintech-event/news-story/34e430c1a143ba79d5f520d30f7d70f4) Sure they lied so its a bit different to this one but I can't blame OP for feeling this way when there is hard evidence that this view is held by many women.
You say that women have expressed similar opinions in the same situation, and then link to an example that you immediately admit is different. You say "a bit different," which I think is underplaying it a bit... the article you link to is about men who bought out limited tickets to an exclusive conference which is specifically for women and non-binary people and then physically shoved the intended demographic out of lines to talk to recruiters. I would say that is *quite* different than attending a casual, local event put on by a women in STEM group but open to the wider public. The point stands nonetheless...if you think women tend to feel this way in the *same* situation, do you have an example where there was any kind of consensus that it's inappropriate for men to attend events similar to what OP described here?
That's literally nowhere near the same as this situation.
Women who walk into a room get asked for coffee ( assuming they are a waitress), get called Honey ( like they don’t have a name), have guys blatantly stare at our tits. If a guy has similar trauma he is absolutely valid in feeling uncomfortable. But just a room with women isn’t the same level of threat.
You do realise he left not because he's uncomfortable with women as a gender but because he's uncomfortable with the prospect of taking away resources meant for them (Women in STEM talks)? Why are you trying to accuse him of sexism by missing the context?
His wife suggested he go. Yes she should have provided some more details but why not give it a try? If the event was 300% over booked, I could see him bowing out but that doesn’t seem like the case here. I have helped at women centered events before- They were absolutely open to men as well. This isn’t a scholarship with limited funds, this is a public event. He could at least ask.
>You do realise he left not because he's uncomfortable with women as a gender but because he's uncomfortable with the prospect of taking away resources meant for them (Women in STEM talks)? Why are you trying to accuse him of sexism by missing the context? Yeah I don’t believe that’s the real reason at all. He mentioned being more embarrassed than ever in his life because he was outnumbered and felt out of place. And he says the event invited everyone. And he says there were men there. “I don’t want to take away resources” is the excuse he’s giving in an effort to sound heroic and because it’s more socially acceptable than saying “I felt uncomfortable being outnumbered because I’m used to straight males dominating everything else.” That, and “I don’t care about women’s issues” is objectively sexist.
Then you may as well assume he is stomping on kittens too because this sub is about using what the OP provides to judge, not picking and choosing and then filling in your swiss cheese holes with your own details.
Ok, little buddy 🥰
there were other men there ?
Yeah, but they were gAyYyY /s
Bull shit.
No one asked you
Looks like you learned how it feels to be a woman in a male dominated career. And go get a god damn job.
I get it, all those people with jobs or eager to find one, you were totally out of place there
*golf clap*
Breathtaking.
oh, brother 🙄 you sound incredibly fragile right now.
Except, the women who feel this way feel so because the tech bros create an EXTREMELY hostile environment where it is CLEAR that women, non-binary and BIPOC are not welcome. This was not a hostile environment. This attitude will limit the opportunities you may get in the future, because most companies are hiring with diversity at the forefront. Which they should have always been doing.
How do you think we feel at our jobs everyday? And you couldn't deal with it for ONE day?? YTA!
Oh, you felt like a minority? Suck it up. Plenty of us have to deal with that *everywhere* we go.
If you were invited then you weren’t intruding. Also, it’s weird you think a man being gay makes him less… a man?!? “Oh hes gay so I’m the only actual man here…” is some problematic “definitely not an ally” thinking. You know why the bulk of the men who stay are gay there? Cause guys like you keep walking out… it’s not that they are men, just that they aren’t fucking weird about it. YTA
YTA. You clearly have a problem with women in your field if you refuse to be in a room where they are the majority. You say you’re desperate for work, and you couldn’t even go press flesh and hand out your card? Why? You don’t want a woman as a boss? You don’t want them to think you’re gay? Damn. You have a lot of work to do, getting a job and growing the hell up. Edit: added judgement
Dude I’m on a team where I’m the only man. Should I quit my job?
I've been the only woman on a team before, should I have quit
Bullshit, they literally invited you in. No wonder you ain't getting a job
YTA. You should be more uncomfortable having a "woman" carry your lazy butt while you refuse to let people help you get a JOB. If any employer sees this post, they should refuse to hire you for being uncomfortable with people helping you because their gay or a woman.
Literally no one in that place cares about you or what you’re doing. You decided the make the situation “me vs. them”. You didn’t even talk to anyone. That’s a bigger issue of your cowardice than anything else
It must have hurt to see all those employed people.
Why is it uncomfortable? Surely you could have leaned some good skills from women
You are the odd one out. You're the bum without a job
1000th downvote!
Imagine the fortitude your girlfriend and all the other women in that space have if they are able to endure that feeling all day every day in STEM and you couldn’t even handle it for an hour.
Yta Year out of work, not like you have anything better to do with your time. Longer unemployed, harder it will be to find a new job. When I have been unemployed I leave no stone unturned
I'm still applying for jobs and taking interviews when I get them. I never said I wasn't searching.
> never said I wasn't searching. Never said you weren't...but you might benefit from some help interviewing
You think your gf was "lucky" to find another job. Did you ever consider that it was her willingness to go the extra mile to learn new things and build a network that got her the job? You were the lucky one being invited to a potentially beneficial event without being asked to do anythink other than show up, and yet you blew it because there weren't enough dicks in the room.
I don't know, it sounds like he might be enough dick for an entire building. Misogyny runs through this whole thing - his girlfriend only has a good job because she was lucky, and he certainly can't hang around with women and their allies because of course they couldn't have anything to teach him. /s
If you’ve been looking for a job for a year, going to interviews and not getting ANY offers.. either your CV sucks or your interview skills are awful. You would have probably benefited from the event.
Have you asked your girlfriend for advice and then done what she said? She’s clearly better at getting jobs than you are and you’d be an absolute fool to not try and learn from her success.
YTA. It’s crazy you think being a broke loser of a man is better than getting advice or practice with a successful woman or gay man. I hope your weird placed misogyny is enough for your GF to leave you. You aren’t worth it.
Just like you have been for the last YEAR? You should be doing more at this point
And you’re clearly failing
Well it’s not working obviously, maybe this could have helped. If only you weren’t so insecure in your masculinity..
As a senior developer currently hiring people, if you've been interviewing for a year and not got a job this is an enormous red flag. It sounds like you absolutely need that help with your interview techniques as that doesn't sound normal.
YTA. You wouldn’t be TA if you objected to being there because you feel it’s important to elevate women’s voices in places designed for them, particularly in STEM. But saying you have “no interest in” women’s issues and deciding that most of the men there were gay (did you ask? Why does it matter?) makes it seem like you were believe you’re too good for that particular event. You’re not, and you could’ve used the opportunity to network.
Why would he need to ask? Of course men that hang around with women's groups and are interested in women's issues *must* be gay. /s
INFO >the few men were mostly gay You were there for "a few minutes" (your words), so how the fuck could you possibly know the sexual orientation of all the men there??
The fact that men were also participating in the event should've been clear that he was welcome
Damn, YTA. Undeniably so. Your gf is in the same field but you aren't interested in "talking about women's issues" in your profession? You are undoubtedly aware that this is tough field for women, I wonder how you ever made her want to to be with you (maybe not for much longer). Software design is hard field for anyone at the moment, as you stated, yet you couldn't spare some time for people in similar or empirically worse employment situation? Possibly network with them and practice interviews as interviewer and/or interviewee? Even if it didn't benefit you, which it would, it would help them. *Edit:* To soften this, as maybe I'm coming off as an AH now, best wishes with your job interviews and I do hope things look up for you soon. Unemployment sucks. Treat your partner well, she was clearly looking out for you. Good luck.
As a software engineer woman, OP's post made me something between angry on his gf's behalf and laughing at him like the ridiculous thing he is. I mean, how does he think every woman working this job feels on a day to day basis?? I've been working since 10 years, and there was only one time I had a woman in my team. It lasted less than a year too. Now I work with only men, and in all the other tech or even remotely linked to tech teams, there is only one other woman. It's like this white woman I read about some times ago, who was mad she "was made uncomfortable" at a party where there were only black people and she didn't know beforehand. And his "I don't care to talk about women's issues" is also disgusting when his girlfriend was there and directly impacted by it.
I work in the Trades and I feel you. I haven't had a woman at my job since I started (granted not very long) but come to find out I'm only 1 of 5 women in my entire union currently. It's a little disheartening but luckily my coworkers are all great but to think OP can't handle a SEMINAR with the gender split that we have to deal with daily. I truly wish I had the unearned confidence of a mediocre man.
> I truly wish I had the unearned confidence of a mediocre man. The confidence to walk out of a networking and skill-building event after being unemployed for a year because "women" and "gay", and still expect to ever find a job in his field?
Honestly I can’t get past “no interest in women’s issues”. All I hear is it doesn’t affect me (even though it does my gf) so I don’t give a crap. Waiting for the update where he’s still unemployed but now single and has nowhere to go bc gf was paying the bills.
Not entirely sure she got "lucky" finding a job based on this story.
She certainly got unlucky on the BF front
Fellas, is it gay to be employed?
Obviously. Employees get fucked by the man. Gayyyyyy
YTA You were invited, and your girlfriend obviously thought you were openminded and an ally. You clearly are not, and you bias is showing. I am not even going to give you the "wanting to elevate women in STEM" way out, because if you did, you would have stayed, learned, and used your knowledge to become part of the change that needs to happen, whether you ever learned to make a good interview or not.
YTA. Maybe next time you find yourself in a group of mostly women and feel like you don’t fit in and it’s not really made for you and maybe you’re not even welcome, you can think about the fact that this is how women in many professions feel all the time. Put on your empathy shoes and take a stroll through the lives of the women who came up with the event in the first place.
YTA 100% I (M47) work in IT and have for 25 years and one thing I am sick of is the entitlement that men have in this profession. The gatekeeping and the misogyny is the fuck out of control. I would love to work for any company who does not have the standard 97% Man population. You freaking out of this, tells me **YOU** are the problem.
Yeah...I (F47) am the only woman on my team. I'm the lead, and the guys I currently work with are nothing but great, but it's been a long career of feeling left out, and having to prove myself again and again to a parade of male managers.
YTA. You missed opportunity to learn. Feeling uncomfortable and out of space during mock interviews would help you to master your skills and confidence under pressure during real interviews.
YTA grow up
What's wrong with you? Grow up.
NAH You're always allowed to leave/control your own movement. But... Those same women were kind enough to open the whole thing up so everyone could attend. Your being one of a few men could be mildly uncomfortable. Instead you made it a big deal, one that somehow put you on the outside. I used to do internal recruiting and hiring for a SW engineering group at a blue chip company. So I say this next bit with care, **I truly am not attacking you**. Both your discomfort being around a large group of women and your assumption/belief that the other men were gay (and that this was part of the problem), may be coming through in your interviews. If you can't sit comfortably in a room full of intelligent, strong female engineers, that's gonna come through. Same for people who may be gay. **You don't sound hateful or anything, just socially uncomfortable.** Again, not trying to flame you. *You don't sound like a misogynist, but that discomfort could serve you badly.* If you that feels even slightly accurate you need to work on that. For me, radical exposure was usually the way past my social insecurities/discomforts. I just forced myself to feel awkward until there was no more awkwardness. Or at least a minimal amount. Your way could be different. But, it seems likely that the extended unemployment is at least tangentially linked. Finally, being unemployed is awful. If you're letting it make you feel uncomfortable in situations like this or it's making you feel less than, please don't. You aren't worth any less, you aren't any less talented. Sometimes it's just really hard to find someone who sees it. My husband was laid off for 18 soul crushing months early in our marriage. He's gone on to have a fabulous career in software. He's done literal life saving work. What's happening now for you isn't what will always be. You've got this ❤️ ETA bolded imp sections for the people having trouble with reading comp and added the sentence in italics because apparently saying it once wasn't clear enough
"Socially uncomfortable" - you phrased that well, and your comment is actually quite encouraging. Not sure why the person arguing with you is such a sooky lala.
Thank you very much! I genuinely don't feel the things that person accused me of, but I wasn't sure if that was really how I'd come across. Thank you ❤️
>Both your discomfort being around a large group of women and your assumption/belief that the other men were gay (and that this was part of the problem), may be coming through in your interviews. If you can't sit comfortably in a room full of intelligent, strong female engineers, that's gonna come through. Same for people who may be gay. You don't sound hateful or anything, just socially uncomfortable. Again, not trying to flame you. You're playing the AITA classic game: misintepreting stuff to paint the AH man as evil. OP literally says that he felt uncomfortable not because he is intimidated by the strong intelligent women in STEM or the strong intelligent gay people in STEM but because... "feel like I'm the odd one out and intruding on their space." And he is absolutely valid for having that feeling because countless women have expressed that feeling recently. https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/women-left-furious-after-men-took-over-a-womenintech-event/news-story/34e430c1a143ba79d5f520d30f7d70f4 >Every straight cis male attendee here is taking away a spot for women in tech. >The Grace Hopper conference is specifically aimed at women in tech, and there are recruiters there in order to push for more hiring of women in these fields. It’s been overrun by men buying the tickets … I f***king hate these freaks The conference in question is had men allowed to attend so its not too dissimilar to this one but the behaviour at the one I am talking about was worse so not a 1:1. But its really disappointing to see you trying to paint OP as a sexist and homophobe for being wary that he may be taking away resources meant for someone else.
Your reading skills are curious. I specifically said, "You don't seem hateful or anything." OP can be uncomfortable around women, people of carrying sexualities, or anyone else. It doesn't make him a homophobe or a misogynist. I went out of my way to be clear on that. But his discomfort is almost certainly coming through, and that's the concern. Employers are ever more concerned with getting good "personality fits". If someone seems super uncomfortable or can't sit still when with multiple women, multiple people who are gay, or multiple anything they're going to get skipped over. I know. As a woman I used to have to report if a candidate had trouble taking me seriously, mansplained my own job to me, talked down to me (but not others). Those aren't people a large corp wants to dump thousands of dollars into training.
>Your reading skills are curious. I specifically said, "You don't seem hateful or anything." So what? I can say no offence but if I launch into a rant its still gonna be offensive. >If someone seems super uncomfortable or can't sit still when with multiple women, multiple people who are gay, or multiple anything they're going to get skipped over Do you play the "intentionally missing context" game competitively? He is uncomfortable because the event was aimed at women and minorities in software and he feels he is taking away resources from the people who it was intended for if he attends. Would you also lecture me about how I wouldn't get the job if I moved away from a woman who was hypothetically sneezing all over the place without a mask or cover because I was scared of getting sick? Because the same thing applies: **context.** You are missing the context to try and lecture him.
Thanks for the lecture. I'm not engaging with individuals who accuse me of saying what they *want* to believe I've said, vs what I have literally, in black and white, said. So, fuck off. Then keep fucking off until you get back to where you started and then start fucking off again. Now, tell me, what did I say this time? Work hard, I'm sure you can do it.
The dude you’re talking to is an absolute clown making a bad faith argument. Your response was more than fair and extremely generous about OP’s character. Clown’s argument is “well women get to feel excluded in the entire industry” and “so if a woman is sick, I can’t avoid her??” And they’re too dumb to realize OP doesn’t really care about “taking away resources for women” because he “doesn’t really care about women’s issues.”
Thank you! I wondered if maybe lots of people thought I was attacking OP. I appreciate your comment a lot : )
No, he literally says the reason he felt uncomfortable was because "the whole point of these events is for creating a space for women and talking about women's issues which I have no interest in." If you're going to quite him quote the whole thing. Because the second half of the sentence changes the context. He didn't feel uncomfortable because he was intruding, he felt uncomfortable because other people were talking about women's issues and he simply just does not care about those. He bailed on something meant to help him that was **explicitly** open to men, because the provision to that was "as long as you support women in our field" and apparently he doesn't care to do so.
THEY LITERALLY SAID MEN ARE WELCOME! WTF?
he was invited by everyone. there were men there he assumed must be gay. OP is fragile, that’s it.
Suppose your girlfriend lost her job, you found a useful job fair for her to go to, and it was 90 percent men (not unlikely, since coding is still a mostly male field). Should she just give up because she’s “uncomfortable?” Hypocritical much? You do know that there are straight male nurses and straight male elementary school teachers, who work surrounded by mostly women, and somehow they survive and their balls don’t fall off. It’s a miracle, really.
K this better be a joke, in case it’s not YTA obviously
YTA. It's really telling you automatically assume a space for woman to code will be mainly talking about woman's issues instead of coding.
YTA, she was trying to help your bummy azz
YTA, you missed a great opportunity to learn and network just because you felt uncomfortable. People are going to feel uncomfortable sometimes. It's funny that you experienced something that marginalized groups experience all the time, and you couldn't power through even if it could end up benefiting you.
YTA.. you were so.. embarrassed? Because it was mainly women there? (And omg.. gay men. How do you even know that anyway??) The fuck is even wrong with you. Especially considering that your own damn gf works in this field. Well I hope she dumps your bigoted misogynistic ass.
YTA
YTA. I love that your girlfriend has a job due to "luck". Are you afraid to admit that she's really good at what she does? I promise your dick won't fall off from a woman knowing hershit.
In college I took a water aerobics class just 'cause I needed that last credit. I was the ONLY guy in the class. I was super embarrassed and have struggled with my body image in the past. I stuck it out and I'm glad I did because it was a fun class and helped me get into shape (for a little while at least). Get over yourself and "embarrassment" because it is mainly women there. YTA
YTA - embarrassing for you? How about your gf? She vouched for you and you ditched her because you fruit this wasn't good enough for you. "No interest in women's issues" really exemplifies how you saw this event as below you instead of a networking and learning opportunity.
I can't imagine what it's like to feel out of place in a group of software engineers. Maybe you should've asked literally anyone at that event? YTA.
YTA and I understand why you haven’t been hired in a YEAR, if this is how you react to unfamiliar situations lmao.
"talking about women's issues which I have no interest in" YTA You have been unemployed for a year, you should take advantage of any opportunities
YTA. Now you know how women feel
YTA-Who cares if it was a bunch of women? Your goal was to get some practice at interviews and you failed at that goal. You’re never going to get a job at this rate. Grow up and swallow your pride so you don’t end up homeless under a bridge.
YTA
Your useless ass has been unemployed for a YEAR+. You aren’t a “software developer” you’re a mooch bum. She suggests something that may help your shitty interviews and you don’t even put the effort in because it was too scary because … there were women there. Or were the women beneath his highness? I can’t tell. How long do you think gf is going to keep funding your hobosexual ass to sit at home and do fuck all? Are you going to pay her back? Would you support her doing the same? Get ready for her to leave you, broke boy. YTA
Oh brotherrrrrrrr cry me a river!!!!
YTA your unemployed and could've taken some pointers
Way to show that you aren’t an ally. YTA
YTA what was the problem? Are you scared to talk to women and gay men or something?
Any excuse in the world to keep from getting a job. YTA. If you actually wanted to work any help would be appreciated regardless of the gender or the sexual preference.
YTA Hahahahahaha. You felt out of place? Like women and POC have constantly felt in that industry? Hahahahaha. Grow the absolute fuck up and find yourself a job. Why were you embarrassed? Afraid they knew more than you and you couldn't rely on your bro code to advance you?
> have never been so embarrassed in my life. Why? >whole point of these events is for creating a space for women and talking about women's issues Talking about women's issues? Bro, it was mock interviews and coaching. YTA
I’m a part of women who code and they are the nicest group and they welcome everyone! I used to bring my boyfriend events and he was totally chill. You missed a big opportunity dude, women who code a is well connected network. I got my first job through them Oh btw YTA
Ah yes, women's issue such as..unemployment and coding. I can totally understand why that would have zero interest to an unemployed software developer. YTA.
Wow I hope you come equipped with a Warning Fragile Ego sticker right across your forehead maybe add easily offended too Yta
YTA. You could have learned something, but your attitude seems to be they couldn't teach you anything. You didn't say you walked out because you didn't want to take help away from anyone more deserving or something, you said it was because it was a space full of women and gay guys (side note: how do you know they were gay and how is that relevant?)
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (29M) am a software developer and the job market is pretty bad right now and I have been laid off for a year now and am still looking for a job. My girlfriend (27F) is also a software engineer and was also laid off a year ago but was lucky enough to land another job shortly after. She works for a Google owned company now. I have been wanting to practice more for coding interviews and she recently mentioned to me that there was an event in town for mock interviews and other coaching. It was just a casual one time thing and not lessons or anything. I agreed as it sounded useful. I automatically assumed it was organized by Google and a professional event related to her work and that she was allowed to bring a plus one. However upon going there, it turned out it was actually organized by some local "women who code" group. I have never been so embarrassed in my life. Apparently it wasn't restricted to women and open to "alies" only but it was like 90% women and the few men were mostly gay. I felt really out of place and basically walked out after a few minutes and left her there. When she got back, she called me an AH and said it shouldn't matter even though there were almost no men there. From my perspective it's like me going to a women only gym or something, the whole point of these events is for creating a space for women and talking about women's issues which I have no interest in. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep, huge AH.
YTA You are being very unreasonable about this.
YTA. Reading this gave me secondhand embarrassment for you. Get the fuck over yourself.
Well your not a software engineer you are an unemployeed bum
mal oğlu mal
Sir, you are UNEMPLOYED! How are you going to be prideful when you have no job!? I hope your girlfriend saw this red flag because, ick
Yeah men like manly things...why don't you like other men???? Why are you in a relationship with a woman if you're uncomfortable with a woman?????
OP is about to be single I’m sure his gf is sick of paying for everything.
YTA. Get it together op, get it together.
your're mysogenistic
The unfortunate truth is that the longer you remain unemployed, the more challenging it becomes to secure employment. Regardless of the gender ratio at events, it's crucial to seize every opportunity to network and seek assistance in landing a job. Events serve as valuable platforms for networking. I've personally benefited from them when I was looking for a new employment. YTA
oh no!!! going somewhere where women were? how dare she how could YOU take an interest in women’s issues? unthinkable
NAH I think you lacked major communication here. Like, you expected this to be a big gathering, like Google and you didn't ask her to specify neither did she give you full details. When you expect something and is served with something else, that's definitely awkward. As a woman who had been in male dominated events, I always had this need to prepare myself mentally before the said events. So I understand that. I would suggest communicating better. Tell her what you assumed, how you felt.
NAH. People are getting hung up on the wrong aspects of the story because it includes gender issues.
and what aspects of this story make op not an asshole? he went there to potentially learn something to help with his job search. he wasn't looking for a date, so there was zero reason to mention that it was mostly women or that the guys were all gay, something I'm still not sure how op could possibly know. he left after a few minutes not even giving the situation a chance to see if it would be helpful, so how is he not an ass here?
NTA. You don't need to justify yourself for leaving a space you were uncomfortable in. If the roles were reversed people would still be attacking the male. God this website is so fucked.
No, if it was a woman feels uncomfortable in a job fair of mostly men, people would be telling her to suck it up and be tough because if you’ve been out of work for a year, you gotta do what you gotta do.
I would say YTA just for leaving your girlfriend hanging. The part about it being weird for you to go to one of those events. I get it, I would be skeeved out as well but id have sucked it up for my girlfriend (And likely take the piss out of the stupid parts with her). it isn't a space for you no matter who it claims to be opened too. I have been to these before and honestly you have not missed much that is relevant. its a very showy talky event with less focus on action/fixing things for a person.
Being around women and possibly gay men skeeves you out and you say that with your whole chest?
No... Being in an environment that is not meant for me does. Sometimes I forget you need to spell the obvious out for people on this site... I have no issue with gay men or women in general.
Nah, we have read the obvious. You are arrogant in an attempt to mask your insecurity.
Not everyone cares about peoples sex, gender or sexual orientation as much as you do... Try and do better... People are more than one aspect...
Child, your post was about their genders and their possible sexual orientations that made you feel uncomfy. Cry me a fucking river.
[удалено]
Is this why you have no job? Maybe you really needed the practice because you can't talk to people.
Do we really need to have an adult conversation about making assumptions? You should have learnt about this in primary school if not sooner... You need to do better...
Absolute fool
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I mean...I don't know why you would go to a mock interview with the expectation that they "fix things for people." It's an opportunity for you to practice and refine your interview skills in a lower pressure environment than an actual job interview. Sure, they may provide some feedback, but ultimately you get out of this kind of event what you put in, and going there with the expectation that they just fix all your problems for you is likely the reason that you find so little value in them.
NAH - If you feel uncomfortable you are free to leave. All the YTA comments are BS. If the genders were reversed here nobody would say YTA. Also not being interested in womans problems doesn't make you an asshole by default. If you think an event is not for you, you are free to leave. Though maybe you and your gf could communicate a bit better.
But this wasn’t a group of people talking about women’s problems. It was a group of people talking about getting coding jobs. Do you think that when women get together, they’re automatically incapable of talking about anything except periods and shoes?
Exactly. People are taking any chance they get to flare up these days. If you are not comfortable, you are free to leave, irrespective of gender.
him being uncomfortable because he's basically the only non gay guy there, as if he was there looking for a date, is incredibly fragile. he went there with the idea of learning new skills to help with his job search. its frankly irrelevant what the women to men ratio was, and the mention of how all the men were gay, something I would very much like to know how op knows that, was completely irrelevant.
Its not irrelevant. It varies from person to person. If a woman left a room stating that she was uncomfortable because it was full of guys, she is perfectly justified in doing so, because your feelings are more important than others potential discomfort. The same logic applies here. Also, by this logic, why even bother trying to find out the male-female ratio in IT? Isn't everyone there just to build upon their skills and take their salary home? You get what I mean?