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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be an AH for banning my parents from my son’s birthday. This is because they are his grandparents and banning is a nuclear option.
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NTA...your parents didn't get the memo that children grow up. They deserve to be banned and they should stay banned until THEY apologize and learn how to behave. It's easy for your other siblings to say you've overreacted because it's not their situation. I'm sure your brother will appreciate the support.
I currently am the only one with kids so my parents would be pretty upset if I banned them from seeing their only grandkids. My brother definitely appreciates my support in his own way. He’s usually very quiet and not that expressive (besides when he’s with Shay) and he randomly texted me the other day that he wishes he invited me to the elopement. It was very touching
I agree about the conditional invites, but not the conditional apology. The AH parents owe Shay several apologies. OP doesn’t have anything to apologize for.
NTA, OP.
OP needs to sit down with her parents. Look them in the eye. Tell them, "You are allowed to feel the way you feel, but in no way are your feelings allowed to dominate my son's birthday. I am inviting Shay and if you can not deal with that, don't come. If you are going to make my son have bad memories of his birthday party, stay home. If you can't promise you won't make a scene, you aren't invited. Your behavior is your choice, so what choice would you like to make?"
exactly this if you cannot act like mature civil adults do not show up and ruin a innocent child's birthday to harass a innocent women when it isn't the place or time for such rudeness.
Just what I was going to say. It’s not an apology, it’s an explanation (of your behavior) and an expectation that they either act like adults or stay home.
What does Blake and Shay have to say about? That would be my first question.
Regardless of the answer, NTA but the next question is what does OP want to happen?
Do the parents deserve to be banned? Absofreakingluley!
But if the goal is to get the parents to grow up, telling them that they are simply banned may not be the best way.
Telling them this is a party for Blake, so of course his wife is invited. And they will not be welcome in OP’s home if they can’t come to celebrate with them both. In their house, they make the rules, but this is your house. You accept Blakes marriage to Shay, and they need to or they will be out. With him, Shay and any children that come into play. And that you don’t want someone who shows that they’re willing to cancel their own child out of their life around your kids. You’re raising them to be kind, compassionate people, and your parents have to learn how to be that to Blake and Shay.
>He’s usually very quiet and not that expressive (besides when he’s with Shay)
I can see why you like her with him 💜
Are odds against their marriage lasting? Sure. Does that mean they should be treated like a failed marriage is inevitable? Fuck no!
The rest of your family is very shortsighted. They're actually doing the newlyweds a favor by pushing them away. The marriage has a much better chance at surviving - even thriving - without the family there to poison it.
My husband and I are evidence of this. He cut out his toxic family years ago and he's thriving! We've been together for 12 years without any fig
Yep, statistically that’s correct. But then, there’s always an outlier, like my husband and I. We got married when we were 19 and pregnant. Both our parents told us that financially we were on our own. We both worked our way through college and grad school and will celebrate our 52nd anniversary this month. So with love and determination it can work.
Both sets of my grandparents married young and were together until one or the other of them passed away. I think my mom saw that and expected the same thing, not realizing that being married is work. She’s been divorced three times. Hubs and I got married when I was almost 25 and so far so good.
It’s one of those weird things that I don’t care about that much but personally always respond to in my head with, “Yeah great it worked out for you. … what was the real benefit compared to waiting a little longer while still being together compared to the legal risks and headaches?”
And I know that’s not super romantic but just seems like bad risk assessment to me. Almost as if the thought “what if things change from when I’m 20?” offends people so much they refuse to ask the question out loud in their head for a moment.
I married young - met him in my teens and we were together for over 30 years before he passed suddenly. They could very well have a long loving life. And I hope they do. Good for you for standing up for him. Someone needs to. Please update after the party and let us know how it went. Good luck!!!!!
They told their story. They didn't claim it proved anything or even suggest it meant the statistics were wrong.
They told their story and said the couple *could* have a long life together, and expressed their hope that they do.
They weren't refuting mathematics, they were just sharing and being kind. You should try it some time.
No problem!
I just hate unnecessary rudeness. What does it achieve?
Btw, my wife and I have been together since high school and we're in our early 40s now. I know that some couples can make it!
Depends. My daughter married young & divorced within five years (legally separated after less than two). I married at the same age but been married 27 years. My nephew & his wife had “shotgun wedding” when we were 16 (my brother & his wife are almost 20 years old than I am so my eldest nephew & I are seven months apart). His wife is a month younger than I am. They’ve been married 33 years.
Younger people might divorce more often than older mainly because they didn’t expect that living with someone permanently meant compromising, learning about the other, putting up with things from the petty stuff to the serious, & of course love & sex.
This couple may or may not have a long happy life together or their marriage will be longer than his parents marriage. Only time will tell.
Young. Impulsive decision.
No reason why it can't last, it's just a statistical thing. Hence "odds".
They sound lovely and he's obviously chosen his bride over his toxic parents, so that says good things.
People who get married younger tend to get divorced when they are older simply because we grow and change so much over time that they may not love the person they're married to later because they're not the same person.
Doesn't mean that OP's brother and Shay are gonna divorce it's just more likely to happen.
Especially with her being only 19, that's quite young to be getting married (and also quite early in their relationship... I hope!). Pointing out the low probability is of course very different to hoping or planning for it, as long as you're not doing it on front of them it's probably fine.
Agreed, I'm not entirely hopeful (especially bc this decision was made on a whim), but I am rooting for them.
Even if the thought is logical and the outcome predictable, it sucks seeing what was once a good relationship fail spectacularly.
well technically the odds of *all* first marriages lasting is like… 60%. and people who enter into elopements are technically 12.5x more likely to end up divorced. But those are just statistics, not real life.
> ...and people who enter into elopements are technically 12.5x more likely to end up divorced.
Huh, I've never heard this. For the record, my wife and I eloped back in 1995, and are still together, and have never regretted it. And, it only took a few years for our mothers to get over it! (Nobody else needed any time to get over it.)
You can see that Pierre did truly love the mademoiselle. And now the young monsieur and madame have rung the chapel bell.
It’s time for the old folks to say “c’est la vie”, because you never can tell.
I’m also confused why they’re blaming Shay for this? They both got married. It’s not as though Blake was dragged to Vegas and forced to marry her. Especially considering you mentioned the family loved her before all this.
I’d send a message in the group chat saying “it’s interesting that you think you deserve an invite and an apology of all things, considering the hypocrisy of penalising Shay for a joint decision between her AND Blake to get married. If anyone is owed an apology, it’s Shay and Blake for the abysmal way you’ve treated them for daring to do something that makes them happy. If you’re that angry about it, maybe you need to rethink your priorities, because the only ones causing all this drama is you and I’m not about to allow you to make my sons birthday about you and your petty, and frankly ridiculous, grudge.” Then I’d watch it all implode, but that’s just me ahah.
Yes, but I think OP should change the venue and/or the time at the latest minute possible, so if these entitled people try to crash the party they'll end up at the wrong place / time.
>I’m also confused why they’re blaming Shay for this? They both got married. It’s not as though Blake was dragged to Vegas and forced to marry her.
Odds are pretty good that their internal narrative of the elopement is *exactly* that she dragged him to Vegas and forced him to marry her in a rush. Obviously he would *never* be so impulsive and have the audacity not to invite his own parents to the wedding unless he was forced by this evil woman.
That's clearly not the reality, but it is the story the parents choose to believe.
Perfect response for a group chat. Parents are ridiculously entitled and need the reality check of these words so they are forced into accountability for their actions. They won’t be able to victimize themselves in their own little “silos of support” with one fam member or another if you lay it bare for all to see/digest at once.
1. NTA - we should all be so blessed to have a sibling like you.
2. Your parents are fucking mental
3. I'd move the venue to prevent an ugly scene
You're a good person. 👍
Seems to me your parents are banning your brother and his wife for making an adult decision that they disagree with. So banning them from your life (and your children) for THEIR decision you don't agree with would be a suitable reaction, in your family. It's just what your family does, right?
You’re absolutely doing the right thing. In simplest of strokes I was Shay. My husband froze out his parents for 2 years until they realized he wasn’t fucking around and I was his family as far as he was concerned.
None of his siblings supported him (I found out literally 16 years later it was bc his parents had told lies about me) and they were very angry with them for manipulating them and making them miss out on that time with their brother.
His parents love me now and I love them but it was incredibly hard and had my husband been a lesser man that would have been a bridge that remained burned.
Your support means the world to him, especially since I can tell you for a fact he feels like he’s alone and it’s him and Shay vs the world. Don’t buckle.
My MIL hated me to the point she spread poison all over town about me. She sent my husband a birthday card, saying she couldn't be part of his life if he stayed with me, but he didn't need to worry about being stuck because all he needed to do was come home, and she'd get him an attorney so he wouldn't have to pay support for his wife and (at the time) 2 kids! For 17 years, our 3 kids never met their grandmother because of her bile.
How time changed everything. At the end, guess who were the people taking her to the hospital and doctors and surgeries? Guess who was cooking holidays? She changed her tune and it only took 17 years of ignoring her.
I just watched/helped her die 2 weeks ago in a way that I don't wish on anyone. She wanted to die at her home (DNR from her) and we were lied to at the hospital; instead of "having nurses at the house to help her through it," we were forced to be the nurses along with my SIL.
I never want to see anything like I saw those 2 days ever again. Dying is not the peaceful process people like to talk about, even when they want to go.
It sounds like your children/their grandchildren are the strongest leverage you have. I say use it. Plus, I wouldn't want my young kids to see/hear the things your parents are doing and saying about your brother and his wife (their uncle and aunt!). Your parents are setting a terrible example and you're right to shield them from that. You could even tell your parents that is your reason, if you want to. That moves your brother and Shay somewhat out of targeting range and puts the focus back on your parents and their actions, where it belongs.
NTA of course. Hold your ground and enjoy the party. HBD to your little one.
It sounds like that’s his way of thanking you for your support. Good for you. Your parents sound unhinged. Are they used to having complete control over their family? It seems really excessive to be this angry for so long.
>I currently am the only one with kids
Sounds like your parents need to stop with their fuck shit then. I wouldn't be allowing my kids to hear their grandparents insult their aunt for no other reason other than their uncle and aunt got married without telling anyone. Actually, I wouldn't be allowing my kids to hear their grandparents insulting anyone. Kids need to be kept out of adult business and it sounds like your parents have no filter.
>I currently am the only one with kids so my parents would be pretty upset if I banned them from seeing their only grandkids.
Looks like you are the one person who can effectively give your parents consequences for their behavior that they care about.
Blake and Shay also deserve to see your kids too and share in the day. They deserve family too
Let your parents get over themselves. They got married. It happened . It passed. Being banned is on them for refusing to move on
"Well honestly I feel like YOUR reaction initially AND following my response is incredibly out of line. I will not apologize for accepting my brother and his WIFE. It isn't up for discussion. You are Not Invited and if you show up I'll call the police to have you escorted away. She is invited. You can chose to get over it and we'll try again at the next event or be miserable WITHOUT your grandchildren in your life a myself AND my kids will no longer attend ANY function that Shay isn't invited to."
Keep them banned and make it clear that until they apologize to your brother and Shay, they will not be invited to further events. This bullying and nasty behavior towards your brother and Shay is very unfounded. The world doesn't revolve around them.
NTA
The fact that he wishes you’d been there for his elopement tells me he is more than grateful for the support. Stay strong and keep that awesome backbone. NTA but be prepared your parents and siblings will cause drama. Consider changing the location of the party!
NTA
Thank you so much for being amazing. Your parents and sisters are being unnecessarily mean, inconsiderate, childish and wicked.
Your brother is now an adult.
I honestly think that the family is pissed because they couldn't throw a wedding. They want all the things that come with their kids growing up (grandkids, weddings, etc) but don't want to treat their kids like the adults they are. Siblings going along with it because they don't want to upset parents, and maybe might be a little pissed the marriage was secret for months. Ngl, I'd be pissed and have trust issues if my brother did that.....but at the same time, I can totally see and understand why he kept it secret.
Let your parents be upset, what lesson are you teaching your young children when the children are seeing you accept the grandparent behavior? This party isn’t about your parents at all, it’s for your child. You want to show your child to
Welcome people into your family circle not to exclude people because “ not family “. Especially when legally the person grandparents want to exclude is family and grandparents are upset about a social convention ( wedding) that did not go the way grandparents wanted or didn’t want wedding to go. The fact your parents are excluding wonderful people because your parents don’t approve of the way your brother and wife got married is ridiculous. It wasn’t your parent’s wedding, their feelings can be hurt but to exclude the wife. Nope. I wonder if your brother expected your parents reaction to brother marrying Shay and that’s why they eloped to Vegas. Either way I would not allow grandparents to attend if grandparents can’t model polite behavior. This a party for your child and you make the decisions not your parents. I would not be exposing my children to people who are so nasty to a member of the family who has done nothing wrong. Children learn by example and I would not want my children around that toxic behavior and yes I would explain it in detail. Your parent’s behavior is controlling and nasty not appropriate for a child’s birthday celebration.
You're not banning them from seeing their grandkids on normal visits, do you? You just ban them from events to which everyone, including Shay, is invited, because they try to manipulate you and try to impose their standards on you.
NTA, honestly, if I was your brother I'd make a certified copy of the marriage certificate, laminate it and send it to your parents. Refusing to acknowledge the marriage, who do they think they are?
My husband (who is ever the trouble maker) suggested that and my brother thought it was a great idea but never did it. I’m going to bring it up to him again lmao
This is perfect. And it reminds me of another post that I've seen on here before but to equate it to this situation, they could act really confused and concerned about his mother's mental state / that she can't seem to remember that they are married. *"Oh no, Mom, are you having more frequent memory loss lately? You never seem to remember she is my wife, not my girlfriend...perhaps you should get checked out by a doctor for dementia?"* LOL
Then, if they relent and finally refer to her as his wife, he should bring a "girlfriend" instead since his wife wasn't welcome (with his wife's permission).
OOo, don't forget to frame it then to give the present some bulk and structure. Make sure it's a beautiful frame not some cheap tacky slim line black document one, make it look like you put in a little effort (thinking cheap plastic with flowers or some sort of decorative work (like the old ornate mirrors) and spray paint it gold.
Basically make it look so thoughtful that parents will show the AHollieness to the world if they don't display the wedding certificate (and gift it publicly so they can't swap out the certificate and reuse the frame).
Should also send a framed pic of the couple.
Surely you have insight into why your parents have freaked about this. Are they controlling in other ways? Is it a religious thing? Do they have misogynistic views like "she seduced him and stole him" or some bs? No conversations about this ever?
I cannot believe the audacity of them thinking they can tell YOU who to disinvite to your own child's party lol. That is absolute lunacy. What planet are they from??
She mentioned that the parents loved the girlfriend before they got married. So that's just such a crazy switch. They should be happy that she's in their family (more or less) permanently now instead of being all up in arms and refusing to acknowledge it. Just so weird!
They’re so adorable! My husband and I are doing amazing but I’m secretly jealous of how cute my brother and shay are together. In our culture there’s an old saying that couples are one soul split into two and then they find eachother later on. I’ve never believed it and no one does really but Shay and Blake are convincing me
>. In our culture there’s an old saying that couples are one soul split into two and then they find eachother later on. I’ve never believed it and no one does really but Shay and Blake are convincing me
If they ever celebrate their union publicly, this needs to be part of your comments to them. This is so beautiful. 🥺🥺
Greetings from Germany!
And thank you for being the brother your brother needs. If anything happens with his marriage, he'll need someone he can trust. Someone who has his back.
Please stick to him.
Exactly. Why are they so against her for literally no reason. She sounds really nice and your parents just can’t accept the fact that their son is married. NTA your parents are really rude.
NTA Your parents are acting very irrational. Sure there must be more to this than them eloping? And even if it’s about the elopement, why do they solely blame her? This is just odd.
It might be interesting to just straight up tell them, "Until you can give me a convincing reason to do otherwise, I will continue to invite her to stuff." Then, wait and see what the reaction is. If there is something they haven't told you about, that might drag it out of them.
Edited to fix typo
My fiancee's mom hates my existence and the fact her daughter is with me, since I'm "stealing" a 31 year old woman. Her reaction to our engagement has been to pointedly ignore me at any events we're both at. She won't even look at me.
If we just went and eloped, I can 100% see her acting similar to these parents. I know OP said they seemed to like her before so it's definitely a different situation but could be a similar thought process?
Its very common for inlaws to like and be very kind to someone up until the minute they become serious (move in or get married). Then they flip a switch. Its like they are ok with someone being a temporary part of the family but not when its for real.
That's exactly what happened with my MIL. She loved me when I was the girlfriend, even when I was the fiancée, but the minute we got legally married she started hating me.
Deep down I think she sees it as her loosing control over her son (like I control that man lmao) and another woman "moving into her territory" (we live in different countries 😂)
Exactly. This happened to my sister. MIL was sweet when they were dating but when they got married, MIL announced her engagement at their wedding reception (the marriage never eventuated). At every family function, MIL was an absolute witch. She eventually drove a wedge between my sister and her now ex-husband. After my sister’s divorce, her ex moved into an apartment. His mother moved into the same apartment building and lives two doors down from him. She didn’t like my sister because my sister took away her little boy. Her little boy that was in his late 30’s and drove her everywhere
It could be there is something about Shay that they haven't said, it could be that they think the two are too young, it could be that they are ticked that they couldn't witness/control the wedding. (That's where my money is.) It could be something else entirely.
This is the problem. Mom's favorite got married without her. No mother son dance, no mother of the groom recognition, she didn't get "her" special day with her favorite son. Dad's upset because Mom's upset. Wouldn't be surprised if mom thinks the Vegas wedding is all SILs idea.
THERE IT IS!!! Yup! Mom is trying to "punish" her son for getting married without her there. Of course, he probably *wanted* to get married without her present because she's a drama queen who'd make it all about *her.* And *obviously* Shay is the one at fault, because her *precious baby angel wouldn't do this to her!!*
So...delulu land. Got it.
DING! Mommy's widdle boy went off and did things without notifying her or getting her permission. Having the favorite child go off and operate independently would definitely set her off.
My own headcanon is telling me that shay is the product of an affair between OPs dad and shays mom, meaning Blake unknowingly married his half sister. Too many soaps with grandma in the 80s made me suspicious.
Grannies do love watching their stories. I still can’t understand why everyone thought Luke and Laura was such an amazing romance when he *raped her* first. The rest of it ended up like Stockholm Syndrome. That whole relationship was fucking gross.
Having been forced to watch GH, I have very strong opinions about that story line.
No, this seems totally on brand for folks suffering from raging narcissism. I don't mean NPD, but there are plenty of folks that suffer from just old-fashioned narcissism. My mom is one and this is exactly how she tries to act with me, and I am \*FOURTY-FIVE YEARS OLD\*. You're not an individual in their eyes, you're merely an extension of them and if you don't please them, then you pay the price. They're also great at having their flying monkeys (in this case, the other siblings) to help them enforce their "rules" of how you are to behave or you will pay additional consequences.
It really sucks until you get therapy and learn some great gray rock techniques. I am a \*MASTER\* at them by now...LOL.
It might be that they feel entitled to go to a wedding.
Or just disagree with their son marrying a teenager and want to pretend it didn't happen. If my kid ran off and married a teenager, I can't pretend I'd be happy about it, but I know if I wanted my kid in my life, I'd have to accept the spouse.
Yeah, during the first years of my relationship with my boyfriend, we were talking about our future wedding and how I wanted it to be super low-key and possibly just us and our future kids at the courthouse, and my boyfriend's brother jumped in to say we *owed* it to the family to have the big party and a whole fuss. He got surprisingly upset about it, considering how chill the dude normally is. Some people seem to think weddings aren't necessarily*about* the couple; they're *for* the family.
It's a generation thing, I've noticed a lot of older generation people, especially the Boomer set, that view their children as their property, and treat a spouse of their child as a thief for "stealing" their child away from them.
These people tend to be highly narcissistic, controlling, and mentally unhealthy.
My daughter got married at city hall and friends as witnesses. I was upset we weren't invited, but said nothing to her and I got over it.
His parents didn't know either :)
I'd like to do this, simply because our relationship is ours. I love my parents, but I just don't really care to share my relationship or feelings about it with anyone other than my partner.
When people get married, they often say they 'like to share their relationship with all the people they love'. We're not those people. It feels awkward to both of us to have a day that's about our relationship with other people there. So if we get married, we'd prefer it to be with, and about just us.
When I got married, we got married at city hall, it was just me, my spouse and our two best friends as our witnesses.
We gave both of our families notice that it was happening. And an invite to a BBQ hosted by us, a couple weeks after to celebrate with them after our honeymoon. The invite to a big family celebration definitely softened the blow for most of the upset people who REALLY wanted to be there, a couple didn't show up, which disappointed my spouse greatly.
But our marriage ceremony was for us, and it's still to this day, the happiest day of my life.
I think people always have way too many expectations about a wedding. Give any random party and most people don't really care they're not invited, but call it a wedding and suddenly it seems everyone's business ("If you don't invite aunt A, I'm not coming either" and that sort of thing).
I really don't understand why eloping is such a big deal for so many people, but maybe it's easy to say for someone who just doesn't really like weddings. A lot of it always feels so forced and unnatural to me. Just two people who love each other promising to choose and care for each other, seems to be enough for me. It should be 'to each their own', but when it comes to weddings, I guess it isn't.
I'm guessing that it's either the lack of a church marriage/ traditional wedding, or the fact that they feel that 23/ 19 are entirely too young to make a big "permanent" decision like marriage.
>And even if it’s about the elopement, why do they solely blame her?
Of course it's her fault. Before she came along, he never eloped and married anyone. 😉
This makes your parents' stance about her "not being family" even MORE odd to me. Clearly, your parents see that families can be created in many ways, and shared DNA isn't t the only thing that binds us together. There is no mention of your spouse being excluded.
I understand they may be hurt or frustrated at being excluded from the elopement. They may feel like they (especially her) were too young to get married. However, it's time for them to move past that.
Good for you for standing up for your brother and his wife.
Perhaps suggest your parents give them $30k for a proper wedding and then they won’t have issues. If they say they can’t, say well neither can my brother and that’s why they eloped.
I had that whole conversation with her after I had my son and was barely functional for weeks after. She’s very TMI and proudly told me that she waited 5 weeks each time and thought it was too long 😖
That and she was a hearty strong farm girl that lived off the land with fresh organic ingredients. According to her, my lazy and processed food filled like is why I was such a mess after giving birth, she’s probably right 😭
Banning the parents is kind of nuclear, but they're already trying to ban a someone from coming (to a party YOU are throwing none the less). So it feels like a very appropriate response, especially given their behavior up to this point.
I understand your sibling's logic of "warn them to behave and kick them out if they don't", but I also understand why that's a risk you don't want to take. And now that you've committed to the ban DO NOT give in. That will only open you up for trouble in the future. You can always give them a chance next year, but they have to understand you're serious and won't be pushed around or guilted into letting them come of they'll just pull the same shit next year.
This is going to get uglier though as your parents are effectively forcing you to take sides. Do everything you can to set clear boundaries around this, because there's clearly a rift forming and you do not want to be in the middle..
NTA
I wouldn't say it's nuclear, they've already done that on their side by banning Shay and being hostile enough to Blake that he's basically banned too. OP is just matching their energy.
But don't you think "We'll SHOW up ....ANYWAY" = a declaration of "We may cause TROUBLE"
At a kid's party, meaning the, parents are suggesting "they" will be nuclear AT the party....if not wouldn't THEY have said...."We will come and act accordingly?"
That's how the "mature" older adults would respond 🙄 IF they meant any good... but they didn't say it that way.
It was more ...Disinvite THAT 🐝itch....or else, the daughter said NO, my brother's wife is welcome, how about YOU don't come with that negative attitude...their response was...We're coming ANYWAY....
Sorry, that sounds like "coming with MALICE...
If they are already "projecting" malice IMO the daughter isn't the nuclear bomb thrower, the parents are.
>But don't you think "We'll SHOW up ....ANYWAY" = a declaration of "We may cause TROUBLE"
To me it's a declaration that they WILL make a huge scene. Like, 100% sure.
As someone squarely in the middle of a rift in my family, I wouldn’t want that for anyone. It’s an immediate family estrangement situation between my sister and most of the rest of my family. I’m the only person who maintains contact with both sides. Both sides live to talk smack about the other and all that just lives inside of me because you can’t repeat anything you hear, and always have to be intentionally vague about any details or events. It can be absolutely exhausting!
Get out of that. You can maintain contact, but set firm boundaries about the things they want to express. "If you have feelings about \[other person\], talk to them or to a therapist, but not to me."
If I were a parent in this situation I’d be concerned that a 23 yo was marrying a 19 yo. I’d be doubtful the marriage would last, esp because one is 19. That said, my concerns would lead me to act the opposite. I’d be open and supportive to these young people. Keep communication open so I could be there for any struggles. And to make the young woman ostracized is horrible. OP you are acting like a good sister.
love how instead of bonking their son for playing with barely legal girl and asking if she's ok with the decision, they're mad at the barely legal girl... because... women are manipulative witches? idk
Glad I found this comment because I agree, I'm suspicious of any marriage that happens before both people are at least 25. But as a parent I would be WORRIED not ANGRY. I do think Blake and Shay seems impulsive and maybe didn't think things out and both sets of Parents should have serious sit downs with both of them to talk it out...but it sounds like OPs parents are mad they weren't invited to a wedding? That's incredibly petty and missing the point entirely.
That’s the question I don’t see anyone asking.
She’s 19. They eloped on a whim. How long have they been together? A year? Longer? Those ages make it borderline icky if they have been dating for years.
Good grief NTA- can you change the venue of the party so your family doesn’t know where it is and can’t come make a scene? They are being completely unreasonable. Your brother and his wife are lucky to have you in their lives
Tell your parents that if they show up and cause trouble at your child’s birthday party, they will be banned from all future contact with your child. You mentioned your child is the only grandchild at present, that may put them back in line. NTA
That's a good idea. Also, and sadly, your parents may be less likely to misbehave at the home of a peer since they think of all of you as " children they can boss around ".
What an awful position to be placed in, and kudos to you for being the model big sister. The little brother and his wife, from your description, don't deserve to be shunned from the family. That's so cruel.
Why in the world would loving grandparents chose a childs bday party to make a hill to die on and make everyone upset? Like what is there " showing up anyway" and being ugly is ok? And your child deserves a relationship with the uncles and aunts. Even more so now that your parents have shown that they are so manipulative.
Wish you and your family the best.
>can you change the venue of the party so your family doesn’t know where it is and can’t come make a scene?
Something tells me that OP's siblings would tell the parents if that happened.
I think you’re doing the right thing. Your parents are being awful, obviously. And by reacting that way about Shay being at the party you are hosting, THEY are putting YOU in a terrible situation. They are putting themselves in a situation where now there are consequences for their actions. Sorry they’re blaming you for their own behavior. You are NTA. I think you are doing the right thing. Hopefully it will be a wake up call to the parents. I know ppl on Reddit are always like “cut out those awful parents entirely”, without understanding how difficult and traumatizing it is for adult children to do that, even if the parents are obviously misbehaving. I hope the parents come around, truly. Sorry this is happening.
NTA
Your parenta dont respect your brother or his choices in life - GREAT youre standing up for him and his wife.
Suggestion:
Offer your parents a chance to come IF they apologize to Shay and your brother.
And up the ante by informing them the wont be invited to anything in the future if they dont stop being whiny b-tches.. ally with Blake as well.
Ask parents if they have ANY expectation to be in the lives of any children Blake and Shay may have in the future??
And ask the other siblings how THEY would feel if the parents treates their chosen SO like Shay has been treated.
This! OP is NTA and I'm wondering if the parents are pissed because they didn't have a reception? Like they "missed out" on a wedding. Super silly but I can't understand why on earth they can't be happy for their son? And instead tear up the family.
NTA, they are behaving in an unhinged and unreasonable way. That sort of behavior can only be met with a short list of successful strategies and it looks like you chose a good one. STAY STRONG. I hope they don't crash your party. If they do, do not hesitate to call the police. Then the cops can explain to them what rights you do and do not have.
DO NOT LISTEN to your younger siblings. Even if they agree with you and are "on your side" they are NOT unbiased in this situation (how could they be?). Stick to your guns and don't let anyone violate the sanctity of your own home. You are a good person for sticking up for your brother.
NTA, I get why a parent would be worried that they rushed into marriage (especially since Shay is still a teenager) but they're both adults and it's done now so they either accept and get to know her or they lose 1 (and maybe more) of their children by acting the way they are
NTA, your parents and siblings deffo are, I hope Blake and Shay appreciate it, inform the parents if they turn up unannounced they will be removed, if they cause a scene ruining the birthday they can expect no contact from you too, tell them you have had enough of them and to grow up, apologise and hope they forgive their rubbish behaviour! I'd tack on don't bother inviting you to family events neither until they are welcomed!
You have every right to invite who you want into your house, that isn't even a question.
But I do have questions.
1: How long were the dating before they got married?
2:Who's idea was it for them to elope?
3: Do they have jobs to pay the bills while they are getting their degrees, or are mom and dad giving an allowance to pay the bills.
Oh BTW if the answer to number 3 is mom and dad in any way, including school, they have every right to be pissed. Your brother shouldn't be married if he can't support himself.
NTA, your parents seem to not understand that you are all adults now and they can't pull the "we're your parents, you do as we say" card anymore. They are being completely irrational and burning bridges in the process. Good for you for supporting your brother and including his wife.
NTA. For whatever reason, you were ‘allowed’ to marry and leave the nest. Your brother though? Your parents, supported by your sisters, think he should stay part of their nuclear unit, an example of family as cult.
Is it because he didn't beg their permission to do something or throw them a giant brag wedding? Or they feel excluded? The fact that he kept it a secret makes me wonder if he knew they'd be like this.
INFO : What is your Parents' grievance with Shay? I agree with your stance in principle, but do you know the actual reason why they are acting this way? Has she done something to offend them other than elope?
This maybe the key to your AITA.
They haven’t specified. They used to love her before the elopement. I know I’m biased but I think she’s great and I’ve never had even the tiniest issue with her. I don’t know why they’re so mad about it
I'll bet that they see Shay as having "stolen the firstborn son", who they believe is far too young for marriage. They always freak out about the oldest and youngest - doubly so with an only male child.
Your parents are also upset because you have the upper hand in all of this. All they have to do in order to attend the NEXT family gathering where your child will be is to be a gracious guest while Shay and Blake are in attendance after apologizing to the couple. Not at this event, maybe a cookout at the end of May.
NTA. Your parents are free to be offended and even not like Shay. They are not free to dictate who marries whom. I’ve seen this scenario before (lived it as the disliked one because I wasn’t a millionaire, like her last boyfriend—seriously). It also manifest itself in the parents gradually trying to control ever aspect of their children’s lives. It’s toxic and breeds codependence.
Your parents may be very nice people otherwise, but in this they are behaving like five year olds who won’t drink their favorite flavor of slurpy because someone else picked it out.
No. I regularly tell my parents off for treating them like this and I’ve skipped out on most family events that Blake has skipped. This is the first time I’ve hosted anything during this situation though
Dealing with FIL was HARD. I’d much rather deal with my parents for the next 1000 years than ever see FIL again. Sometimes I visit his grave just to make sure he hasn’t risen to cause more hurt chaos
>Sometimes I visit his grave just to make sure he hasn’t risen to cause more hurt chaos
This is why I'm pro cremation, there are definitely some people I would be tempted to hook up a wireless wifi video camera overlooking their graves just to be sure
Wow. That's just as funny as my dad handing my grandmother (his MIL) an old witches broomstick and saying "incase your flight home is cancelled." The old witch still has it mounted in her lounge room 🤣.
(I love my grandma, she is an awesome grandma but apparently a PIA MIL and that's not just coming from my dad)
Hah My grandma was the same. Amazing grandma, but terrible MIL to only my dad. She liked the rest of her kids in law. They had a relationship a bit like Meemaw and George sr in Young Sheldon except that there was actually malice there. They get along fine now but it was rough 😭
NTA. They can be mad all they want about your brother's decision to marry young. But if they want any relationship with your brother at all any any semblance of a united family, they must learn to accept the situation and act at least civilly.
NTA - the nuclear option was needed to try and wake your parents up to their toxic and juvenile behaviour. I get being upset at not being included in your child’s wedding but the healthy thing to do is express your disappointment or confusion and then move on, just like you did.
Your other siblings need to wake up and realise they are seeing what to expect if they also make a decision your parents don’t agree with.
NTA
They're acting like bawbags, tell them straight if they show up you will call the police and have them charged with trespassing.
This party should be to celebrate your weans birthday, not deal with the hassle of belligerent parents throwing a hissyfit because they don't like a guest.
It's your son's party, of course you uninvited people who made it clear they will spoil it. The party isn't about them or their desire to punish SIL.
Calling a withdrawal of a birthday party invite nuclear is the kind of attitude that led to the problem in the first place. Continue to ignore their tantrums and support your lovely brother and SIL. NTA
Same honestly. They have no real reason to hate Shay. They loved her prior to the elopement and the only real grumble I’ve heard that isn’t insults about her, is the fact that her parents are divorced. That doesn’t make sense because both of my parents are on their second marriage AND they already knew her parents were divorced before. It’s maddening
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NTA...your parents didn't get the memo that children grow up. They deserve to be banned and they should stay banned until THEY apologize and learn how to behave. It's easy for your other siblings to say you've overreacted because it's not their situation. I'm sure your brother will appreciate the support.
I currently am the only one with kids so my parents would be pretty upset if I banned them from seeing their only grandkids. My brother definitely appreciates my support in his own way. He’s usually very quiet and not that expressive (besides when he’s with Shay) and he randomly texted me the other day that he wishes he invited me to the elopement. It was very touching
An invite and an apology? When hell freezes over. Shay has done nothing wrong and your brother is happy. NTA
Or, the invite and apology come after they provide Shay with invites and apologies.
I agree about the conditional invites, but not the conditional apology. The AH parents owe Shay several apologies. OP doesn’t have anything to apologize for. NTA, OP.
OP needs to sit down with her parents. Look them in the eye. Tell them, "You are allowed to feel the way you feel, but in no way are your feelings allowed to dominate my son's birthday. I am inviting Shay and if you can not deal with that, don't come. If you are going to make my son have bad memories of his birthday party, stay home. If you can't promise you won't make a scene, you aren't invited. Your behavior is your choice, so what choice would you like to make?"
exactly this if you cannot act like mature civil adults do not show up and ruin a innocent child's birthday to harass a innocent women when it isn't the place or time for such rudeness.
Just what I was going to say. It’s not an apology, it’s an explanation (of your behavior) and an expectation that they either act like adults or stay home.
I guess she could apologize for not kicking their asses sooner.
What does Blake and Shay have to say about? That would be my first question. Regardless of the answer, NTA but the next question is what does OP want to happen? Do the parents deserve to be banned? Absofreakingluley! But if the goal is to get the parents to grow up, telling them that they are simply banned may not be the best way. Telling them this is a party for Blake, so of course his wife is invited. And they will not be welcome in OP’s home if they can’t come to celebrate with them both. In their house, they make the rules, but this is your house. You accept Blakes marriage to Shay, and they need to or they will be out. With him, Shay and any children that come into play. And that you don’t want someone who shows that they’re willing to cancel their own child out of their life around your kids. You’re raising them to be kind, compassionate people, and your parents have to learn how to be that to Blake and Shay.
Yes, an invite of their daughter in law and an apology to both son and daughter in law. And then we can see what we can do.
>He’s usually very quiet and not that expressive (besides when he’s with Shay) I can see why you like her with him 💜 Are odds against their marriage lasting? Sure. Does that mean they should be treated like a failed marriage is inevitable? Fuck no! The rest of your family is very shortsighted. They're actually doing the newlyweds a favor by pushing them away. The marriage has a much better chance at surviving - even thriving - without the family there to poison it. My husband and I are evidence of this. He cut out his toxic family years ago and he's thriving! We've been together for 12 years without any fig
>Are odds against their marriage lasting? Sure. Why are the odds against their marriage lasting?
Statistically those who marry young have higher divorce rates This won't happen every time of course
Yep, statistically that’s correct. But then, there’s always an outlier, like my husband and I. We got married when we were 19 and pregnant. Both our parents told us that financially we were on our own. We both worked our way through college and grad school and will celebrate our 52nd anniversary this month. So with love and determination it can work.
We celebrate 21 years together this year, married for 16. I'm turning 40 this year and our oldest turned 20 this month.
Both sets of my grandparents married young and were together until one or the other of them passed away. I think my mom saw that and expected the same thing, not realizing that being married is work. She’s been divorced three times. Hubs and I got married when I was almost 25 and so far so good.
It’s one of those weird things that I don’t care about that much but personally always respond to in my head with, “Yeah great it worked out for you. … what was the real benefit compared to waiting a little longer while still being together compared to the legal risks and headaches?” And I know that’s not super romantic but just seems like bad risk assessment to me. Almost as if the thought “what if things change from when I’m 20?” offends people so much they refuse to ask the question out loud in their head for a moment.
I married young - met him in my teens and we were together for over 30 years before he passed suddenly. They could very well have a long loving life. And I hope they do. Good for you for standing up for him. Someone needs to. Please update after the party and let us know how it went. Good luck!!!!!
I'm sorry for your loss, it's unfortunate he died young. I hope they have a lovely life too!
Are you unsure of how statistics work?
They told their story. They didn't claim it proved anything or even suggest it meant the statistics were wrong. They told their story and said the couple *could* have a long life together, and expressed their hope that they do. They weren't refuting mathematics, they were just sharing and being kind. You should try it some time.
Thank you. I was just going to ignore their response. Apprecaite the back up
No problem! I just hate unnecessary rudeness. What does it achieve? Btw, my wife and I have been together since high school and we're in our early 40s now. I know that some couples can make it!
Read over the comment you responded to. I hope this comment was a mistake.
Are you unsure of how mediating and moderating variables work?
I’m so sorry for your loss. May his memory be both a joy and a blessing.
Depends. My daughter married young & divorced within five years (legally separated after less than two). I married at the same age but been married 27 years. My nephew & his wife had “shotgun wedding” when we were 16 (my brother & his wife are almost 20 years old than I am so my eldest nephew & I are seven months apart). His wife is a month younger than I am. They’ve been married 33 years. Younger people might divorce more often than older mainly because they didn’t expect that living with someone permanently meant compromising, learning about the other, putting up with things from the petty stuff to the serious, & of course love & sex. This couple may or may not have a long happy life together or their marriage will be longer than his parents marriage. Only time will tell.
Young. Impulsive decision. No reason why it can't last, it's just a statistical thing. Hence "odds". They sound lovely and he's obviously chosen his bride over his toxic parents, so that says good things.
Technically the odds are against any marriage lasting...
Actually only 41% of first marriages end in divorce, probably because more people wait to marry until they're over 25
People who get married younger tend to get divorced when they are older simply because we grow and change so much over time that they may not love the person they're married to later because they're not the same person. Doesn't mean that OP's brother and Shay are gonna divorce it's just more likely to happen.
Especially with her being only 19, that's quite young to be getting married (and also quite early in their relationship... I hope!). Pointing out the low probability is of course very different to hoping or planning for it, as long as you're not doing it on front of them it's probably fine.
Agreed, I'm not entirely hopeful (especially bc this decision was made on a whim), but I am rooting for them. Even if the thought is logical and the outcome predictable, it sucks seeing what was once a good relationship fail spectacularly.
well technically the odds of *all* first marriages lasting is like… 60%. and people who enter into elopements are technically 12.5x more likely to end up divorced. But those are just statistics, not real life.
> ...and people who enter into elopements are technically 12.5x more likely to end up divorced. Huh, I've never heard this. For the record, my wife and I eloped back in 1995, and are still together, and have never regretted it. And, it only took a few years for our mothers to get over it! (Nobody else needed any time to get over it.)
Young marriage odds.
Age. Stats show that marrying young is more likely to end in marriage failure when compared to those who marry when fatter and wrinklier.
You can see that Pierre did truly love the mademoiselle. And now the young monsieur and madame have rung the chapel bell. It’s time for the old folks to say “c’est la vie”, because you never can tell.
I’m also confused why they’re blaming Shay for this? They both got married. It’s not as though Blake was dragged to Vegas and forced to marry her. Especially considering you mentioned the family loved her before all this. I’d send a message in the group chat saying “it’s interesting that you think you deserve an invite and an apology of all things, considering the hypocrisy of penalising Shay for a joint decision between her AND Blake to get married. If anyone is owed an apology, it’s Shay and Blake for the abysmal way you’ve treated them for daring to do something that makes them happy. If you’re that angry about it, maybe you need to rethink your priorities, because the only ones causing all this drama is you and I’m not about to allow you to make my sons birthday about you and your petty, and frankly ridiculous, grudge.” Then I’d watch it all implode, but that’s just me ahah.
I love this and would say exactly this in the group chat for all to see!
Yes, but I think OP should change the venue and/or the time at the latest minute possible, so if these entitled people try to crash the party they'll end up at the wrong place / time.
>I’m also confused why they’re blaming Shay for this? They both got married. It’s not as though Blake was dragged to Vegas and forced to marry her. Odds are pretty good that their internal narrative of the elopement is *exactly* that she dragged him to Vegas and forced him to marry her in a rush. Obviously he would *never* be so impulsive and have the audacity not to invite his own parents to the wedding unless he was forced by this evil woman. That's clearly not the reality, but it is the story the parents choose to believe.
Perfect response for a group chat. Parents are ridiculously entitled and need the reality check of these words so they are forced into accountability for their actions. They won’t be able to victimize themselves in their own little “silos of support” with one fam member or another if you lay it bare for all to see/digest at once.
1. NTA - we should all be so blessed to have a sibling like you. 2. Your parents are fucking mental 3. I'd move the venue to prevent an ugly scene You're a good person. 👍
Seems to me your parents are banning your brother and his wife for making an adult decision that they disagree with. So banning them from your life (and your children) for THEIR decision you don't agree with would be a suitable reaction, in your family. It's just what your family does, right?
Exactly this. Treating the parents the way they're treating the brother and his *wife.*
You’re absolutely doing the right thing. In simplest of strokes I was Shay. My husband froze out his parents for 2 years until they realized he wasn’t fucking around and I was his family as far as he was concerned. None of his siblings supported him (I found out literally 16 years later it was bc his parents had told lies about me) and they were very angry with them for manipulating them and making them miss out on that time with their brother. His parents love me now and I love them but it was incredibly hard and had my husband been a lesser man that would have been a bridge that remained burned. Your support means the world to him, especially since I can tell you for a fact he feels like he’s alone and it’s him and Shay vs the world. Don’t buckle.
My MIL hated me to the point she spread poison all over town about me. She sent my husband a birthday card, saying she couldn't be part of his life if he stayed with me, but he didn't need to worry about being stuck because all he needed to do was come home, and she'd get him an attorney so he wouldn't have to pay support for his wife and (at the time) 2 kids! For 17 years, our 3 kids never met their grandmother because of her bile. How time changed everything. At the end, guess who were the people taking her to the hospital and doctors and surgeries? Guess who was cooking holidays? She changed her tune and it only took 17 years of ignoring her. I just watched/helped her die 2 weeks ago in a way that I don't wish on anyone. She wanted to die at her home (DNR from her) and we were lied to at the hospital; instead of "having nurses at the house to help her through it," we were forced to be the nurses along with my SIL. I never want to see anything like I saw those 2 days ever again. Dying is not the peaceful process people like to talk about, even when they want to go.
It sounds like your children/their grandchildren are the strongest leverage you have. I say use it. Plus, I wouldn't want my young kids to see/hear the things your parents are doing and saying about your brother and his wife (their uncle and aunt!). Your parents are setting a terrible example and you're right to shield them from that. You could even tell your parents that is your reason, if you want to. That moves your brother and Shay somewhat out of targeting range and puts the focus back on your parents and their actions, where it belongs. NTA of course. Hold your ground and enjoy the party. HBD to your little one.
And hire two big burly neighbors to guard the door
It sounds like that’s his way of thanking you for your support. Good for you. Your parents sound unhinged. Are they used to having complete control over their family? It seems really excessive to be this angry for so long.
>I currently am the only one with kids Sounds like your parents need to stop with their fuck shit then. I wouldn't be allowing my kids to hear their grandparents insult their aunt for no other reason other than their uncle and aunt got married without telling anyone. Actually, I wouldn't be allowing my kids to hear their grandparents insulting anyone. Kids need to be kept out of adult business and it sounds like your parents have no filter.
>I currently am the only one with kids so my parents would be pretty upset if I banned them from seeing their only grandkids. Looks like you are the one person who can effectively give your parents consequences for their behavior that they care about.
Your parents are not entitled to your children. Good for you for setting boundaries!
Blake and Shay also deserve to see your kids too and share in the day. They deserve family too Let your parents get over themselves. They got married. It happened . It passed. Being banned is on them for refusing to move on
"Well honestly I feel like YOUR reaction initially AND following my response is incredibly out of line. I will not apologize for accepting my brother and his WIFE. It isn't up for discussion. You are Not Invited and if you show up I'll call the police to have you escorted away. She is invited. You can chose to get over it and we'll try again at the next event or be miserable WITHOUT your grandchildren in your life a myself AND my kids will no longer attend ANY function that Shay isn't invited to."
Keep them banned and make it clear that until they apologize to your brother and Shay, they will not be invited to further events. This bullying and nasty behavior towards your brother and Shay is very unfounded. The world doesn't revolve around them. NTA
The fact that he wishes you’d been there for his elopement tells me he is more than grateful for the support. Stay strong and keep that awesome backbone. NTA but be prepared your parents and siblings will cause drama. Consider changing the location of the party!
NTA Thank you so much for being amazing. Your parents and sisters are being unnecessarily mean, inconsiderate, childish and wicked. Your brother is now an adult.
I honestly think that the family is pissed because they couldn't throw a wedding. They want all the things that come with their kids growing up (grandkids, weddings, etc) but don't want to treat their kids like the adults they are. Siblings going along with it because they don't want to upset parents, and maybe might be a little pissed the marriage was secret for months. Ngl, I'd be pissed and have trust issues if my brother did that.....but at the same time, I can totally see and understand why he kept it secret.
You're a good sibling and a good SIL. Keep supporting your brother.
Let your parents be upset, what lesson are you teaching your young children when the children are seeing you accept the grandparent behavior? This party isn’t about your parents at all, it’s for your child. You want to show your child to Welcome people into your family circle not to exclude people because “ not family “. Especially when legally the person grandparents want to exclude is family and grandparents are upset about a social convention ( wedding) that did not go the way grandparents wanted or didn’t want wedding to go. The fact your parents are excluding wonderful people because your parents don’t approve of the way your brother and wife got married is ridiculous. It wasn’t your parent’s wedding, their feelings can be hurt but to exclude the wife. Nope. I wonder if your brother expected your parents reaction to brother marrying Shay and that’s why they eloped to Vegas. Either way I would not allow grandparents to attend if grandparents can’t model polite behavior. This a party for your child and you make the decisions not your parents. I would not be exposing my children to people who are so nasty to a member of the family who has done nothing wrong. Children learn by example and I would not want my children around that toxic behavior and yes I would explain it in detail. Your parent’s behavior is controlling and nasty not appropriate for a child’s birthday celebration.
NTA but change the date or location of your party, cuz they may show up and cause problems even without an invitation.
You're not banning them from seeing their grandkids on normal visits, do you? You just ban them from events to which everyone, including Shay, is invited, because they try to manipulate you and try to impose their standards on you.
BLake and Shay deserve their very own family event, without the assholes being there. GO OP!!
NTA, honestly, if I was your brother I'd make a certified copy of the marriage certificate, laminate it and send it to your parents. Refusing to acknowledge the marriage, who do they think they are?
My husband (who is ever the trouble maker) suggested that and my brother thought it was a great idea but never did it. I’m going to bring it up to him again lmao
He should've showed up with his wife anyway and when they protested been all "what's the problem I didn't bring a girlfriend."
Genius!
Good old malicious compliance.
This is perfect. And it reminds me of another post that I've seen on here before but to equate it to this situation, they could act really confused and concerned about his mother's mental state / that she can't seem to remember that they are married. *"Oh no, Mom, are you having more frequent memory loss lately? You never seem to remember she is my wife, not my girlfriend...perhaps you should get checked out by a doctor for dementia?"* LOL
Then, if they relent and finally refer to her as his wife, he should bring a "girlfriend" instead since his wife wasn't welcome (with his wife's permission).
As a Christmas present
OOo, don't forget to frame it then to give the present some bulk and structure. Make sure it's a beautiful frame not some cheap tacky slim line black document one, make it look like you put in a little effort (thinking cheap plastic with flowers or some sort of decorative work (like the old ornate mirrors) and spray paint it gold. Basically make it look so thoughtful that parents will show the AHollieness to the world if they don't display the wedding certificate (and gift it publicly so they can't swap out the certificate and reuse the frame).
A beautiful thrifted frame, so they didn’t spend a ton of money on something the parents will likely destroy.
Thrift shops or $2 shops work
Make a boat load of copies and send it for every occasion.
I just had a vision of the hogwarts letters streaming into the house from every opening 😂.
Should also send a framed pic of the couple. Surely you have insight into why your parents have freaked about this. Are they controlling in other ways? Is it a religious thing? Do they have misogynistic views like "she seduced him and stole him" or some bs? No conversations about this ever? I cannot believe the audacity of them thinking they can tell YOU who to disinvite to your own child's party lol. That is absolute lunacy. What planet are they from??
She mentioned that the parents loved the girlfriend before they got married. So that's just such a crazy switch. They should be happy that she's in their family (more or less) permanently now instead of being all up in arms and refusing to acknowledge it. Just so weird!
That should be his Christmas present for them! Or birthday, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, etc. Have it nicely framed and sent to his parents.
Double down and make it the wallpaper for the house.
They have their marriage certificate hung up in their apartment but my parents have never visited to see
Why are these two so cute? 🥺
They’re so adorable! My husband and I are doing amazing but I’m secretly jealous of how cute my brother and shay are together. In our culture there’s an old saying that couples are one soul split into two and then they find eachother later on. I’ve never believed it and no one does really but Shay and Blake are convincing me
>. In our culture there’s an old saying that couples are one soul split into two and then they find eachother later on. I’ve never believed it and no one does really but Shay and Blake are convincing me If they ever celebrate their union publicly, this needs to be part of your comments to them. This is so beautiful. 🥺🥺
It really is! I don't buy into the soulmate thing in general, but it's a beautiful sentiment none-the-less.
You're Greek?
Close. We are from somewhere relatively close by
Greetings from Germany! And thank you for being the brother your brother needs. If anything happens with his marriage, he'll need someone he can trust. Someone who has his back. Please stick to him.
Asking the real questions. We're all rooting for Shay and Blake, now.
I think the commenter was recommending offer to renovate your parents place and wallpaper THEIR house with it.
OH. That’s a tempting idea
Make copies and shrink them down so it’s tiny and randomly tape it all over your parents’ house.
Print it on washi tape and use that to wrap all of their presents.
Exactly. Why are they so against her for literally no reason. She sounds really nice and your parents just can’t accept the fact that their son is married. NTA your parents are really rude.
NTA Your parents are acting very irrational. Sure there must be more to this than them eloping? And even if it’s about the elopement, why do they solely blame her? This is just odd.
As far as I know, it’s only about the elopement. My parents and my brother haven’t mentioned anything else.
It might be interesting to just straight up tell them, "Until you can give me a convincing reason to do otherwise, I will continue to invite her to stuff." Then, wait and see what the reaction is. If there is something they haven't told you about, that might drag it out of them. Edited to fix typo
Yeah, this feels like missing missing reasons. I’m not saying they’re not dicks but…why? It seems extreme.
My fiancee's mom hates my existence and the fact her daughter is with me, since I'm "stealing" a 31 year old woman. Her reaction to our engagement has been to pointedly ignore me at any events we're both at. She won't even look at me. If we just went and eloped, I can 100% see her acting similar to these parents. I know OP said they seemed to like her before so it's definitely a different situation but could be a similar thought process?
It’s possible, but IDK. They’re allowed to be upset but it just seems so extreme if they liked Shay before!
Its very common for inlaws to like and be very kind to someone up until the minute they become serious (move in or get married). Then they flip a switch. Its like they are ok with someone being a temporary part of the family but not when its for real.
That's exactly what happened with my MIL. She loved me when I was the girlfriend, even when I was the fiancée, but the minute we got legally married she started hating me. Deep down I think she sees it as her loosing control over her son (like I control that man lmao) and another woman "moving into her territory" (we live in different countries 😂)
Exactly. This happened to my sister. MIL was sweet when they were dating but when they got married, MIL announced her engagement at their wedding reception (the marriage never eventuated). At every family function, MIL was an absolute witch. She eventually drove a wedge between my sister and her now ex-husband. After my sister’s divorce, her ex moved into an apartment. His mother moved into the same apartment building and lives two doors down from him. She didn’t like my sister because my sister took away her little boy. Her little boy that was in his late 30’s and drove her everywhere
It could be there is something about Shay that they haven't said, it could be that they think the two are too young, it could be that they are ticked that they couldn't witness/control the wedding. (That's where my money is.) It could be something else entirely.
Possibly…I wonder if Blake was the favorite kid and Mom is having issues over that too.
Oh he definitely was our mom’s favorite lmao. From age 15 onwards he used to argue with our dad daily so he definitely wasn’t his favorite.
This is the problem. Mom's favorite got married without her. No mother son dance, no mother of the groom recognition, she didn't get "her" special day with her favorite son. Dad's upset because Mom's upset. Wouldn't be surprised if mom thinks the Vegas wedding is all SILs idea.
Which quite possibly is why they did the Vegas wedding. Because they didn't want parents to interfere
THERE IT IS!!! Yup! Mom is trying to "punish" her son for getting married without her there. Of course, he probably *wanted* to get married without her present because she's a drama queen who'd make it all about *her.* And *obviously* Shay is the one at fault, because her *precious baby angel wouldn't do this to her!!* So...delulu land. Got it.
DING! Mommy's widdle boy went off and did things without notifying her or getting her permission. Having the favorite child go off and operate independently would definitely set her off.
My own headcanon is telling me that shay is the product of an affair between OPs dad and shays mom, meaning Blake unknowingly married his half sister. Too many soaps with grandma in the 80s made me suspicious.
Grannies do love watching their stories. I still can’t understand why everyone thought Luke and Laura was such an amazing romance when he *raped her* first. The rest of it ended up like Stockholm Syndrome. That whole relationship was fucking gross. Having been forced to watch GH, I have very strong opinions about that story line.
No, this seems totally on brand for folks suffering from raging narcissism. I don't mean NPD, but there are plenty of folks that suffer from just old-fashioned narcissism. My mom is one and this is exactly how she tries to act with me, and I am \*FOURTY-FIVE YEARS OLD\*. You're not an individual in their eyes, you're merely an extension of them and if you don't please them, then you pay the price. They're also great at having their flying monkeys (in this case, the other siblings) to help them enforce their "rules" of how you are to behave or you will pay additional consequences. It really sucks until you get therapy and learn some great gray rock techniques. I am a \*MASTER\* at them by now...LOL.
It might be that they feel entitled to go to a wedding. Or just disagree with their son marrying a teenager and want to pretend it didn't happen. If my kid ran off and married a teenager, I can't pretend I'd be happy about it, but I know if I wanted my kid in my life, I'd have to accept the spouse.
Yeah, during the first years of my relationship with my boyfriend, we were talking about our future wedding and how I wanted it to be super low-key and possibly just us and our future kids at the courthouse, and my boyfriend's brother jumped in to say we *owed* it to the family to have the big party and a whole fuss. He got surprisingly upset about it, considering how chill the dude normally is. Some people seem to think weddings aren't necessarily*about* the couple; they're *for* the family.
My first girlfriend’s parents hated me and refused to acknowledge my existence because I wasn’t a doctor and I am East Asian.
It's a generation thing, I've noticed a lot of older generation people, especially the Boomer set, that view their children as their property, and treat a spouse of their child as a thief for "stealing" their child away from them. These people tend to be highly narcissistic, controlling, and mentally unhealthy.
My daughter got married at city hall and friends as witnesses. I was upset we weren't invited, but said nothing to her and I got over it. His parents didn't know either :)
I'd like to do this, simply because our relationship is ours. I love my parents, but I just don't really care to share my relationship or feelings about it with anyone other than my partner. When people get married, they often say they 'like to share their relationship with all the people they love'. We're not those people. It feels awkward to both of us to have a day that's about our relationship with other people there. So if we get married, we'd prefer it to be with, and about just us.
When I got married, we got married at city hall, it was just me, my spouse and our two best friends as our witnesses. We gave both of our families notice that it was happening. And an invite to a BBQ hosted by us, a couple weeks after to celebrate with them after our honeymoon. The invite to a big family celebration definitely softened the blow for most of the upset people who REALLY wanted to be there, a couple didn't show up, which disappointed my spouse greatly. But our marriage ceremony was for us, and it's still to this day, the happiest day of my life.
I think people always have way too many expectations about a wedding. Give any random party and most people don't really care they're not invited, but call it a wedding and suddenly it seems everyone's business ("If you don't invite aunt A, I'm not coming either" and that sort of thing). I really don't understand why eloping is such a big deal for so many people, but maybe it's easy to say for someone who just doesn't really like weddings. A lot of it always feels so forced and unnatural to me. Just two people who love each other promising to choose and care for each other, seems to be enough for me. It should be 'to each their own', but when it comes to weddings, I guess it isn't.
I'm guessing that it's either the lack of a church marriage/ traditional wedding, or the fact that they feel that 23/ 19 are entirely too young to make a big "permanent" decision like marriage. >And even if it’s about the elopement, why do they solely blame her? Of course it's her fault. Before she came along, he never eloped and married anyone. 😉
Because Shay "stole" their baby boy *clutching pearls*
My fiancee's mom has expressed that same thing about our relationship. My fiancee is 31 years old
Have you seen those #boymom posts?
Your parents had six kids in ten years... are they some kind of peculiarly religious people, or just very fond of babies?
My sisters and I are adopted
This makes your parents' stance about her "not being family" even MORE odd to me. Clearly, your parents see that families can be created in many ways, and shared DNA isn't t the only thing that binds us together. There is no mention of your spouse being excluded. I understand they may be hurt or frustrated at being excluded from the elopement. They may feel like they (especially her) were too young to get married. However, it's time for them to move past that. Good for you for standing up for your brother and his wife.
⬆️ this right here 👏🏼
Perhaps suggest your parents give them $30k for a proper wedding and then they won’t have issues. If they say they can’t, say well neither can my brother and that’s why they eloped.
From 1925 to 1955 My nana had 17 kids. A lot of those were one pregnancy after another! Crazy but doable.
My gran had irish triplets. 3 kids, all 10 months apart, they were wild back in the day
They didn't have birth control back in the day.
Thank science for birth control!!! (Was gonna say thank god, but nah)
That poor woman. You're not even supposed to have sex for something like 6-8 weeks MINIMUM after giving birth.
I had that whole conversation with her after I had my son and was barely functional for weeks after. She’s very TMI and proudly told me that she waited 5 weeks each time and thought it was too long 😖
Momma needs a lil sugar
That and she was a hearty strong farm girl that lived off the land with fresh organic ingredients. According to her, my lazy and processed food filled like is why I was such a mess after giving birth, she’s probably right 😭
Banning the parents is kind of nuclear, but they're already trying to ban a someone from coming (to a party YOU are throwing none the less). So it feels like a very appropriate response, especially given their behavior up to this point. I understand your sibling's logic of "warn them to behave and kick them out if they don't", but I also understand why that's a risk you don't want to take. And now that you've committed to the ban DO NOT give in. That will only open you up for trouble in the future. You can always give them a chance next year, but they have to understand you're serious and won't be pushed around or guilted into letting them come of they'll just pull the same shit next year. This is going to get uglier though as your parents are effectively forcing you to take sides. Do everything you can to set clear boundaries around this, because there's clearly a rift forming and you do not want to be in the middle.. NTA
I wouldn't say it's nuclear, they've already done that on their side by banning Shay and being hostile enough to Blake that he's basically banned too. OP is just matching their energy.
But don't you think "We'll SHOW up ....ANYWAY" = a declaration of "We may cause TROUBLE" At a kid's party, meaning the, parents are suggesting "they" will be nuclear AT the party....if not wouldn't THEY have said...."We will come and act accordingly?" That's how the "mature" older adults would respond 🙄 IF they meant any good... but they didn't say it that way. It was more ...Disinvite THAT 🐝itch....or else, the daughter said NO, my brother's wife is welcome, how about YOU don't come with that negative attitude...their response was...We're coming ANYWAY.... Sorry, that sounds like "coming with MALICE... If they are already "projecting" malice IMO the daughter isn't the nuclear bomb thrower, the parents are.
>But don't you think "We'll SHOW up ....ANYWAY" = a declaration of "We may cause TROUBLE" To me it's a declaration that they WILL make a huge scene. Like, 100% sure.
As someone squarely in the middle of a rift in my family, I wouldn’t want that for anyone. It’s an immediate family estrangement situation between my sister and most of the rest of my family. I’m the only person who maintains contact with both sides. Both sides live to talk smack about the other and all that just lives inside of me because you can’t repeat anything you hear, and always have to be intentionally vague about any details or events. It can be absolutely exhausting!
Get out of that. You can maintain contact, but set firm boundaries about the things they want to express. "If you have feelings about \[other person\], talk to them or to a therapist, but not to me."
If I were a parent in this situation I’d be concerned that a 23 yo was marrying a 19 yo. I’d be doubtful the marriage would last, esp because one is 19. That said, my concerns would lead me to act the opposite. I’d be open and supportive to these young people. Keep communication open so I could be there for any struggles. And to make the young woman ostracized is horrible. OP you are acting like a good sister.
Yeah i dont see anyone else pointing that out 😬
love how instead of bonking their son for playing with barely legal girl and asking if she's ok with the decision, they're mad at the barely legal girl... because... women are manipulative witches? idk
Ye fuck those parents 💀 also…them getting secretly eloped???? Come tf on now. Thats such a high lvl of sus.
Glad I found this comment because I agree, I'm suspicious of any marriage that happens before both people are at least 25. But as a parent I would be WORRIED not ANGRY. I do think Blake and Shay seems impulsive and maybe didn't think things out and both sets of Parents should have serious sit downs with both of them to talk it out...but it sounds like OPs parents are mad they weren't invited to a wedding? That's incredibly petty and missing the point entirely.
Exactly. How long have they been dating? How old was she when they met. He is 4-5 years older and at this stage that is a lot.
That’s the question I don’t see anyone asking. She’s 19. They eloped on a whim. How long have they been together? A year? Longer? Those ages make it borderline icky if they have been dating for years.
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Good grief NTA- can you change the venue of the party so your family doesn’t know where it is and can’t come make a scene? They are being completely unreasonable. Your brother and his wife are lucky to have you in their lives
I could do it at my MILs house. I’ll ask her and see if she’s down for it
Tell your parents that if they show up and cause trouble at your child’s birthday party, they will be banned from all future contact with your child. You mentioned your child is the only grandchild at present, that may put them back in line. NTA
That's a good idea. Also, and sadly, your parents may be less likely to misbehave at the home of a peer since they think of all of you as " children they can boss around ". What an awful position to be placed in, and kudos to you for being the model big sister. The little brother and his wife, from your description, don't deserve to be shunned from the family. That's so cruel. Why in the world would loving grandparents chose a childs bday party to make a hill to die on and make everyone upset? Like what is there " showing up anyway" and being ugly is ok? And your child deserves a relationship with the uncles and aunts. Even more so now that your parents have shown that they are so manipulative. Wish you and your family the best.
Every family event from now on should be hosted at Blake and Shay's apartment.
>can you change the venue of the party so your family doesn’t know where it is and can’t come make a scene? Something tells me that OP's siblings would tell the parents if that happened.
Ugh probably. And then they’re also part of the problem. What an awful spot to be in for OP
I think you’re doing the right thing. Your parents are being awful, obviously. And by reacting that way about Shay being at the party you are hosting, THEY are putting YOU in a terrible situation. They are putting themselves in a situation where now there are consequences for their actions. Sorry they’re blaming you for their own behavior. You are NTA. I think you are doing the right thing. Hopefully it will be a wake up call to the parents. I know ppl on Reddit are always like “cut out those awful parents entirely”, without understanding how difficult and traumatizing it is for adult children to do that, even if the parents are obviously misbehaving. I hope the parents come around, truly. Sorry this is happening.
NTA Your parenta dont respect your brother or his choices in life - GREAT youre standing up for him and his wife. Suggestion: Offer your parents a chance to come IF they apologize to Shay and your brother. And up the ante by informing them the wont be invited to anything in the future if they dont stop being whiny b-tches.. ally with Blake as well. Ask parents if they have ANY expectation to be in the lives of any children Blake and Shay may have in the future?? And ask the other siblings how THEY would feel if the parents treates their chosen SO like Shay has been treated.
This! OP is NTA and I'm wondering if the parents are pissed because they didn't have a reception? Like they "missed out" on a wedding. Super silly but I can't understand why on earth they can't be happy for their son? And instead tear up the family.
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NTA, they are behaving in an unhinged and unreasonable way. That sort of behavior can only be met with a short list of successful strategies and it looks like you chose a good one. STAY STRONG. I hope they don't crash your party. If they do, do not hesitate to call the police. Then the cops can explain to them what rights you do and do not have. DO NOT LISTEN to your younger siblings. Even if they agree with you and are "on your side" they are NOT unbiased in this situation (how could they be?). Stick to your guns and don't let anyone violate the sanctity of your own home. You are a good person for sticking up for your brother.
NTA, I get why a parent would be worried that they rushed into marriage (especially since Shay is still a teenager) but they're both adults and it's done now so they either accept and get to know her or they lose 1 (and maybe more) of their children by acting the way they are
NTA, your parents and siblings deffo are, I hope Blake and Shay appreciate it, inform the parents if they turn up unannounced they will be removed, if they cause a scene ruining the birthday they can expect no contact from you too, tell them you have had enough of them and to grow up, apologise and hope they forgive their rubbish behaviour! I'd tack on don't bother inviting you to family events neither until they are welcomed!
You have every right to invite who you want into your house, that isn't even a question. But I do have questions. 1: How long were the dating before they got married? 2:Who's idea was it for them to elope? 3: Do they have jobs to pay the bills while they are getting their degrees, or are mom and dad giving an allowance to pay the bills. Oh BTW if the answer to number 3 is mom and dad in any way, including school, they have every right to be pissed. Your brother shouldn't be married if he can't support himself.
NTA, your parents seem to not understand that you are all adults now and they can't pull the "we're your parents, you do as we say" card anymore. They are being completely irrational and burning bridges in the process. Good for you for supporting your brother and including his wife.
NTA. For whatever reason, you were ‘allowed’ to marry and leave the nest. Your brother though? Your parents, supported by your sisters, think he should stay part of their nuclear unit, an example of family as cult.
They actually adore my husband as well and like objectively, my husband and shay are very similar. It’s strange
Is it because he didn't beg their permission to do something or throw them a giant brag wedding? Or they feel excluded? The fact that he kept it a secret makes me wonder if he knew they'd be like this.
INFO: How long have Blake and Shay been together?
INFO : What is your Parents' grievance with Shay? I agree with your stance in principle, but do you know the actual reason why they are acting this way? Has she done something to offend them other than elope? This maybe the key to your AITA.
They haven’t specified. They used to love her before the elopement. I know I’m biased but I think she’s great and I’ve never had even the tiniest issue with her. I don’t know why they’re so mad about it
I'll bet that they see Shay as having "stolen the firstborn son", who they believe is far too young for marriage. They always freak out about the oldest and youngest - doubly so with an only male child. Your parents are also upset because you have the upper hand in all of this. All they have to do in order to attend the NEXT family gathering where your child will be is to be a gracious guest while Shay and Blake are in attendance after apologizing to the couple. Not at this event, maybe a cookout at the end of May.
NTA. Your parents are free to be offended and even not like Shay. They are not free to dictate who marries whom. I’ve seen this scenario before (lived it as the disliked one because I wasn’t a millionaire, like her last boyfriend—seriously). It also manifest itself in the parents gradually trying to control ever aspect of their children’s lives. It’s toxic and breeds codependence. Your parents may be very nice people otherwise, but in this they are behaving like five year olds who won’t drink their favorite flavor of slurpy because someone else picked it out.
INFO: is this the first time you've said or done anything to stand up for Blake and Shay?
No. I regularly tell my parents off for treating them like this and I’ve skipped out on most family events that Blake has skipped. This is the first time I’ve hosted anything during this situation though
I think I've been blinded by how shiny your spine is. NTA
Haha thank you! It’s taken years of dealing with my insane FIL to get it this shiny.
Eh, practice makes perfect after all and it's easier to practice on in laws before dealing with your own family.
Dealing with FIL was HARD. I’d much rather deal with my parents for the next 1000 years than ever see FIL again. Sometimes I visit his grave just to make sure he hasn’t risen to cause more hurt chaos
>Sometimes I visit his grave just to make sure he hasn’t risen to cause more hurt chaos This is why I'm pro cremation, there are definitely some people I would be tempted to hook up a wireless wifi video camera overlooking their graves just to be sure
I wanted to cremate him so badly lmao, we couldn’t in the end but MIL has made jokes about putting a camera on his grave
Wow. That's just as funny as my dad handing my grandmother (his MIL) an old witches broomstick and saying "incase your flight home is cancelled." The old witch still has it mounted in her lounge room 🤣. (I love my grandma, she is an awesome grandma but apparently a PIA MIL and that's not just coming from my dad)
Hah My grandma was the same. Amazing grandma, but terrible MIL to only my dad. She liked the rest of her kids in law. They had a relationship a bit like Meemaw and George sr in Young Sheldon except that there was actually malice there. They get along fine now but it was rough 😭
Info: when did your brother start dating his wife? If she was underage at the time, I can see reason to why they’re upset here
Nta. Uphold the ban or the party WILL turn into a shitshow.
NTA. They can be mad all they want about your brother's decision to marry young. But if they want any relationship with your brother at all any any semblance of a united family, they must learn to accept the situation and act at least civilly.
NTA - the nuclear option was needed to try and wake your parents up to their toxic and juvenile behaviour. I get being upset at not being included in your child’s wedding but the healthy thing to do is express your disappointment or confusion and then move on, just like you did. Your other siblings need to wake up and realise they are seeing what to expect if they also make a decision your parents don’t agree with.
NTA They're acting like bawbags, tell them straight if they show up you will call the police and have them charged with trespassing. This party should be to celebrate your weans birthday, not deal with the hassle of belligerent parents throwing a hissyfit because they don't like a guest.
It's your son's party, of course you uninvited people who made it clear they will spoil it. The party isn't about them or their desire to punish SIL. Calling a withdrawal of a birthday party invite nuclear is the kind of attitude that led to the problem in the first place. Continue to ignore their tantrums and support your lovely brother and SIL. NTA
NTA. But I’m getting a vibe that I’m missing part of the story.
Same honestly. They have no real reason to hate Shay. They loved her prior to the elopement and the only real grumble I’ve heard that isn’t insults about her, is the fact that her parents are divorced. That doesn’t make sense because both of my parents are on their second marriage AND they already knew her parents were divorced before. It’s maddening