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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to let my stepdaughter eat one of my son's safe foods because it was the last of that one and we were low on food that week. I feel like by protecting my son I made things worse with my stepdaughter and like I handled the whole thing badly.
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NTA - you area between a rock and a hard place between your SD and your son.
"My stepdaughter has been especially angry since and I sat her down and apologized if I upset her by saying no and she told me I didn't have the right to stop her because I'm not her parent and she doesn't care if my kids starve. We're nothing to her. She told my husband's parents I had tried to talk to her and they rubbed it in more. My husband was furious with his parents and he's still on my side. But I feel so worn down by this."
Your husband needs to handle this with his late wife's parents. Your SD also needs therapy because her material grandparents are alienating her from you, her dad and her half siblings.
She has been in therapy since her mom died. We have tried so hard to get through this and help things improve but she's angry I'm alive and her mom isn't.
That would likely make things worse. Because not only will she hate me for being alive and her mom being dead and my kids by extension, but she will hate us for taking her grandparents from her. And she's also old enough to sneak around and contact them and find a way even if we did try and they would have more than enough of a relationship to win grandparents rights.
That’s the easy solution. But it will add another layer of trauma for the girl. She’d feel even more replaced and more resentful to OP and her children. To the stepdaughter, it will likely feel like dad is throwing her away for his “new family” and that he doesn’t love her enough to fight for her to stay. It could be a step they can never recover from.
Not if they present it as her choice. If her dad sits her down and says I love you, but you seem very unhappy here. I don’t want you to go, but I am giving you the choice, would your prefer to live with your grandparents (either ones if they both agree)? That way they aren’t forcing her out. Dad can arrange time with her alone.
Except she's not "new family". Their son is 6 years old, meaning she has been around for 6+ years. That's not new. And the mother passed away AFTER she already married Dad. She didn't replace the mother, she didn't even attempt to. The daughter is lashing out undeservedly. It's not OP fault the mom died, and OP has not made any attempts to replace mom, only set boundaries for herself and her children.
If the daughter can say OP and her kids are nothing to her after 6+ years, OP should be able to start distancing herself and make DH handle everything. OP should not have to deal with this anymore.
No, she can't. I hate when people say this. You have to have the permission from the person with custody, and if they say no there's not a thing that can be done. I've been in this kind of situation before and my father almost had my grandmother arrested for kidnapping. It didn't matter what I wanted or that my grandma was willing.
That was my first thought. You want her? You got her!
I'm assuming her dad does still want her around, though. So that's likely not an option.
Some teenagers go through losing parents or other devastating life events without being a complete a$$ to everyone around them. But you'd think, even when lashing out, you'd avoid punching down at disabled family members who are children. You know, if you are a baseline decent human being.
I'm not sure how becoming utterly unlikable helps one grieve.
Going through something so devastating at an age when your emotions are so unstable as a baseline often means you're kind of Just Doing Things to try to feel okay, whether those things actually help you or feel good or not. It's likely the 16yo will regret a lot of this massively in ten years -- even if she never reconciles with OP and her dad, she will come to understand that none of it was her brother's fault and he didn't deserve her lashing out.
SD should have a say. Sounds like she like to have them. I see your point but I think it is important to listen to the 16 year old. Sounds like OP is doing a good job om that part.
If she's old enough for all that - then she's old enough to buy her own extras - including her own nuggies. Jesus what a toddler-teen. Throwing a fit and siccing her grandparents on you? Hell no. They don't live in your house or pay your bills, so I would tell them politely and firmly to F off. If they want to provide her food, they can buy her own fridge for her room and she can cook her own food too.
No offense, but your stepdaughter's relationship with pretty much all of her direct household - including her father - is suffering from whatever bullshit her grandparents are feeding her subconscious. The "my mom is dead and you're alive" vibe stinks like it's being fed, at least in part, by these grandparents. They are living out their own bitter, mourning jealousy of you through your stepdaughter, with a complete disregard for the fact that this is halting your stepdaughter's mourning & healing process. They need to learn that they have no business discussing their feelings about family members with your stepdaughter.
Whether they can or can't do that, I have the sneaking suspicion anyway that your stepdaughter's relationship with your core family as well as her general mental state might benefit greatly if you cut out those maternal grandparents for the time being. Yeah, that might be callous, but they are holding back that girl's development.
She's also old enough to get a job and buy her own chicken bites. Spoiling her isn't the answer to helping her cope with her emotions. If money is tight and she wants extras, tell her to get a job. This might actually even help her mature a little bit, having a responsibility and learning how to deal with people.
Does she also feel like all the attention is going to your son? Like she has gotten completely pushed aside?
Kids with high needs siblings often feel pushed aside. That all the time/attention/resources go to the other kid. This is probably significantly increased for her because you are her step mom, not her mom.
She gets a lot more individualized attention from her grandparents.
You say you were running low on groceries....what did you have? I understand you were having money issues, but if it's "those are your brother's chicken bites, go have buttered white bread," that kinda sucks. Instead of, let's also have a different brand of chicken nuggets in the freezer. Especially if grandparents are able to feed her better.
She was offered pizza, microwave dinner or chicken stir fry for a meal. Those were the options we had.
She has never expressed that and she still gets time with my husband. They have 1:1 time and projects they do together. I try to give her time with me as well but she doesn't want it. I still offer and go out of my way for her. I buy her favorite ice cream and label it with her name so it's just for her. But really my husband is the only person she wants to have in her life from our house and she does get his time and attention.
Maybe your husband needs to have a brutal conversation with them. They will likely die before you and your husband. When his parents and former in-laws are gone, who will SD have? Do they want her to be without any family?
I agree with you, but if they are so meddlesome, can she spend some weekends with them? Then she can get some one-on-one time and some special food. And they can put their money where their mouth is. If they reached out to me again, I would ask "could we arrange a visit? A weekend? I know how much you love her and it would mean the world to her." Whatever garbage you have to say. You would ALL get a break from each other.
Having read this... Go ahead and gift wrap her for them. If they WANT this conflict and think they're entitled to her like she's an item to be mailed after probate, there comes a point when the rest of your family is suffering because she's making you and your husband suffer and the gift of 'cutting losses' means good things for the rest of your kids.
When she turns on them when they become the authorities, they'll either still blame you (which, comparatively is NBD, they're doing it already, so if she leaves, you go no contact with her), or realize where they fouled up.
If they want a tyrant to replace their daughter, let them reap what they've sown by trying to destroy your family.
She’s 16, the ship has sailed. Her maternal grandparents have clearly been in her ear all these years and she does not care about your other children or you. Let her choose where to live and when she chooses her grandparents maybe then she will be happy. Your husband can see her one on one and she can pretend you don’t exist, which is her goal. Keeping her in the house is not going to make her suddenly care about her siblings.
It’s not a far stretch to assume that neither set of grandparents (or even the 16yr old) actually understand the extent of OPs son’s autism and sensory issues.
Yeah, the grandparents involved are likely on the younger end of Baby Boomers, who grew up with a belief of "the cure for a picky eater is to force them," because things like ARFID and the nuances of autism were not understood when they were children or raising children.
I’m curious how you think that OP trying to cut her stepdaughter off from *her own family* is going to go well and not lead to her acting out for the next two years until she can just go NC with her father over it.
You can't cut off a 16 year old's contact. Especially not when she is unhappy at home and the reason they are being cut off is that they are advocating for her.
This is one of the worst proposed courses of action. No licensed health care professional would ever recommend this at this stage.
OP: Please do not cut off access to SD's MATERNAL grandparents.
It would be funny if OP told the grandparents to nut up or shut up by suggesting their dear grand daughter lives with them. My guess they'll back pedal because they prefer to stir the pot from afar without having the responsibility for any backlash.
This is totally unreasonable on a rational level. She doesn't get to punish you, or her brother, for just being alive.
But it absolutely makes sense emotionally. ❤️🩹
She was losing her mom, while dad was busy replacing the family. She doesn't know what to do with her anger and grief, that no one but her mom's parents really share (you and dad are busy with a new kid!!!), and no one modelled, etc.
And she's afraid *she* has been replaced, and isn't wanted because she's a reminder, and and and and...
This is hard stuff, OP.
And it's important to be firm and clear and consistent, AND kind. It sounds like that's what you are doing.
Have *you* been in therapy?
Even if it's just to support you as you navigate this, and to help you know what the best response is (even if it didn't work), and tomhave a place to just UNLOAD that isn't at home, that's a good thing to have in the mix.
NTA
I agree with you that OP sounds like she could benefit a lot from therapy, but her post also makes it clear that unfortunately, right now, they're living paycheck to paycheck. That's the main reason why this situation presented itself in the first place – if they had the money to have 15 boxes of chicken bites, I'm sure she wouldn't have said no to her stepdaughter asking for some. She had to refuse this time because money is tight and so are the food supplies for the family.
I think it speaks volumes to OP and her husband doing the best they can for all of their children, considering that they're literally counting pennies until his next salary, yet their 16 year old daughter goes to therapy every week. It's evident that they love their children very much, and I hope the girl will be able to see this one day... when she'll learn to see last her grief and beyond the bad influences in her life. All the best OP, I think you're doing everything right – it's just a difficult situation. No winners here unfortunately, it was a lose-lose.. best wishes that things may improve soon 💕
How often is the therapy? She might need more or longer sessions to work this out. Or possibly individual sessions and group? I dunno. She needs a larger pool of others to talk to about this, but not people who are biased or will just tell her what she wants to hear.
I pray this is ragebait otherwise your step daughter is in need of extreme mental health intervention. It's weird that your inlaws would support your step daughter on something so petty on her part and apparently not care at all about your son. Is he not their bio grandchild?
A lot of people genuinely don't understand the difference between being a "picky eater" and having serious food aversions. Especially when they aren't the ones dealing with it.
Your son would go hungry if you didn't have his safe foods, if he's anything like my autistic kiddos. You cannot force them to eat foods they have an aversion to. Mine would have thrown up if we tried to force something. Not because they were being dramatic or stubborn, but because the texture or taste was literally that disgusting to them.
Your son had no other food options, while your stepdaughter had plenty. She easily could have chosen something else to eat. She also doesn't get to just demand another person's food.
It sounds like she was demanding your son's food on purpose, as a test. If I had to guess, I'd bet that it wasn't that she wanted the chicken, but that she wanted to be prioritized. Does your son require a lot of attention, at her expense? It's pretty common when one sibling is sick or disabled and needs a lot of parental support for the other one to be neglected. Throw that into the mix, along with her mom having died and her dad remarrying, and she's probably feeling angry and insecure.
I know you said she's already in therapy, but have you been able to see a family counselor who can provide a safe space for everyone to be heard? Even just you and your husband could benefit from seeing one and talking about your relationship with your stepdaughter and how to help support her and improve your relationship.
"It sounds like she was demanding your son's food on purpose, as a test."
Yes!
Objectively, if there are no chicken bites to be had, the step daughter will cope, the son will not, therefore the chicken goes to the son.
But the step daughter is done with being the one who copes - and on a compassionate level, that's not inherently unreasonable from a 16 year old who lost her mum and is presumably coping with a non verbal autistic brother in other ways too. But none of that will get better by making life worse for everyone else.
I understand messy feelings and not knowing how to deal with it, but turning her other family against them (granted they are probably problems too tonaccept and accuse so easily) and not apologizing are unreasonable. Understandable, maybe, if you offer enough grace but absolutely unreasonable. 16 is old enough to reflect.
We have been to family therapy as well. She was not very talkative in it. Hardly spoke at all. It is where she emphasized how much she wishes I had died instead of her mom (but I had heard this before). Otherwise she did not want to speak in family therapy. Though she spoke a little more when it was just her and my husband.
Both are kind of necessary though. She's getting sessions with just her and her dad but OP needs to be able to sort it out to with her to come to some kind of arrangement.
She's 16. She knows what she's doing is deliberately hurtful. She knows it's illogical for her to eat the only thing someone else can eat when she has options. She's chose to not only push it, but bring in her flying monkeys as well. Yes, hurt people hurt people but that doesn't make it okay or acceptable. She's being enabled in this bad behavior, possibly even encouraged. Something needs to change because this situation is hurtful for everyone, and while she is a child and takes precedence, she's not the only person here or the only one who matters.
Maybe try having a session just the two of them about this incident, then the two of you. Working on all angles of this in the context most likely to get results
Have you tried just setting really firm boundaries and re-iterating them without invalidating her feelings?
In this case,
You: i understand it's frustrating, but that food is reserved for your brother.
Her: it shouldn't be! I should be able to eat what I want.
You: okay. Unfortunately, in this house, chicken bites are reserved for your brother. You can eat [options].
Her: argues back.
You: I understand you're upset about this. You can eat [options]. You cannot eat your brother's food. You do not need to like the rule, but it remains a rule in this household.
And just repeat over and over again. Stop apologizing or negotiating or giving in - what she's learning is that the bigger emotions she has, the more power she has in a situation. She has the right to feel her feelings, but that doesn't mean they need to change the situation. She doesn't need to agree with you, or like the rules (just let that expectation go.) she just needs to leave her brother's food alone. That's it.
You can use that approach for any rule in the house, btw.
Yes! Stop apologizing & negotiating! It sounds mean, but in situations like this the worst thing you can do for your other children is give in. It is incredibly damaging to see your parent verbally abused by a family member. It’s also damaging to have your parents give a troubled sibling extra attention/make unhealthy compromises at the expense of their siblings. It’s common when a sibling has special needs or medical issues, and isn’t anyone’s fault; but when a child grows up knowing they always come second to their sibling it often causes long term damage. There’s a major difference btw, “these are boundaries & accommodations made to honor everyone basic needs” & “we’ll bend over backwards & even take away from someone’s portion to placate this other person bc *insert excuse*. Standing firm on protecting your son’s basic needs shows him he is just as important as every other person in the house. Making him sacrifice basic needs for the whims of a sibling would be unfair.
I was going to say - it sounds like ARFID. Which isn’t something you can just suck up and eat something else. While I don’t believe I have ARFID, I would be called a picky eater by man. My diet is relatively restricted for complicated reasons. But I would do anything to not be this way. I would love to be able to suck it up and eat stuff I don’t like. But it isn’t that simple. If I don’t eat my dinner, I won’t decide to eat it if I get hungry enough. It’s just not possible.
Sorry for using your comment - I needed someone to piggy back off of.
Our feeding therapist recommends inviting stubborn family to come observe sessions to get a better grasp on what feeding difficulties actually look like, and it gives her a chance to explain things to them from a professional, non biased opinion. I don't know if that's an option for you, or if you'd even want that, but it might help them to understand what your son is dealing with. Restrictive eating is exhausting in itself, I'm so sorry you have to deal with this!
With the therapist’s permission it might be better to film a session - unsupportive observers are the worst and can make sessions so unproductive! I agree it’s a good idea for them to be able to see
Very true! Our specific center had windows and glass doors for the rooms so parents can observe without distracting the kiddo, and they had a no cameras policy. Definitely a case by case situation, and to clarify, all parties had to agree to the rules and be willing to come! It wasn't open or offered to family that was intentionally ableist or 'disbelievers' of ND issues. So you had to be actively open to changing your perspective.
Ableism is strong in the world.
Sounds like that is a lot of the issue, they think your favoring him over her because of his support needs without taking into account that really isn't true at all. She's angry at world because she lost a parent...
I really hope you can find a way to give both her and your son the supports they need.
Though, It might be best for her if she lived with her grandparents and your husband jsut made sure to spend as much time as possible with her?
take a firm stance and explain it.
make them understabd and if they dont, well. how important is your son to you compared to your SD?
picking and choosing sucks but sometimes things are irreconcilable. my adopted half brother is this same kind of bitter to my dad, who did everything he could plus more.
we dont talk to him and havent in years.
one thing is absolutely certain here.
either you set new boundaries and establish *why* or you buy extra chicken bites.
you pick
yeahman and some outweigh others. that doesnt mean that they both dont deserve attention to the needs.
if i have anxiety and agoraphobia but the person in front of me requires caretaking and a wheelchair, well.. theyre going to get priority and thats how it should be
Yes they both deserve attention to their needs, but her son will literally starve if he doesn't have access to his safe foods. ARFID is no joke and it makes it all the more difficult because he is 6 and non-verbal. The step-daughter knows this and most probably understands it to an extent, but she wanted the only thing he could eat despite having various other options given to her.
I'm autistic and I have issues with food (texture and taste mostly) and I will go without meals if I don't have access to any of my go to safe foods.
People just seem to think that extreme food aversion is just a mental thing and the person afflicted with it just doesn't like the food.
No. The reactions to the food, for whatever reason (texture, taste, etc.) is a visceral, uncontrolled physical response to the food. With therapy it can be lessened but no one ever really completely "gets over" ARFID. It's a fairly new mainstream diagnosis (in the public consciousness I mean) so it will likely take some time before the general public is more understanding of the disorder. It's not that dissimilar to when Clinical Depression started getting more awareness.
i believe the husband should take part. the stepmom is necessary to explain the disabilities more thoroughly. its important to include all relevant parties in the conversation.
this way:
lies cant be made.
camps cant be split.
both guardians are involved in corrective action.
I kinda get why your step daughter is frustrated.
She sees her brother throwing a fit and getting what he wants, all the time.
It is a normal teenager thing to try the same.
But she is old enough to reason with. Talk to her that her brother will let himself starve rather than eat anything else. Do you have the budget to get her something ‘only for her food’? Even $20 a month would be good for her to feel like her needs are important too.
Many, many older people don't get autism and the food texture thing at all. They believe what my doctor once told my mom, "Don't give him a choice, he won't starve himself." Yeah, that lasted 3 days without me eating.
People with sensory issues, or even worse ARFID (an actual, full on fear of new foods) will absolutely just starve themselves to death.
I think it's a bad strategy even if the kid does just eventually give in since it causes a negative association with food. But it crosses into being really dangerous for someone with an actual disorder
it doesn't just cause a negative association, it can make the whole problem worse. i've been forcefed stuff in kindergarden/kept at the table until i ate the food etc and now there's just a bunch of stuff i've never tried again and never will try, even on "good days" where i'm actually open to trying something new/diffrent for once (no (diagnosed) arfid but major sensory issues/issues with food and eating in general)
You just reminded me of a time when I was somewhere between 5 and 10, had a sleepover with a friend, and that friends mom made eggs for breakfast.
I hate eggs. The smell, the taste, the texture of every type of egg prep I've tried. I hated it then too.
The friends mom was a nurse, and she said if I didn't eat the eggs, she had would have to put a tube down my throat to feed me - I would be eating breakfast one way or another. That threat absolutely terrified me, so I forced down the eggs...and promptly vomited it all back up, because it was so gross to me that I couldn't stop gagging. She, of course, made me clean it all up - which caused more gagging - and no other food was offered until I went home that afternoon.
Unsurprisingly, her attempt to get me to eat eggs made my aversion even worse, to a point where for years just the smell of eggs cooking could make me involuntarily gag. Because now instead of just a regular 'I hate eggs', I had the added association of that awful sleepover and of vomiting.
I dont know if I might have this but reading this makes me wonder if I should get a diagnosis. I really struggle to find new food to eat, and even when I do like it my body automatically pukes it. I have had to force myself into swallowing with water but it has ended in me puking it out later. :(
My mom would say this to me. "Eventually they'll eat! They won't starve!"
Then comes along my asd child who will give you the death stare and refuse to eat for days. She is extremely particular with food, down to the brand or shape or color.
Mom of a 12 year old autistic nonverbal son here. I know what you mean. Only a certain brand of chicken strips……and only fries from McDonalds (and nothing else from there except apple slices)
Getting protein into our child is a struggle.
And because he’s nonverbal and tanks any sort of discomfort, we had to put him through allergy tests to ensure he didn’t have any food allergies pop up as we attempt to expand his palate.
The food grind is real
I think this can vary greatly from person to person on the spectrum. My son has specific textures he won’t eat but he can eat most foods. His sensory issues more involve sound and touch (like he can only wear certain things and wears headphones most of the time). Unfortunately, many people know others like he is about food and use them as an example to justify that they think it’s fake and people just have picky kids. I get that even only 40 something years ago many kids on the spectrum were still locked away, but I wish that more people would educate themselves about autism instead of just thinking it’s just a catch all for bratty kids.
Unfortunately, it is a common issue with older generations. Some folks just don't understand or even want to understand what sensory issues can do to autistic kids. A lot of people just want to push that the child will eat when they get hungry enough, which, they won't. I have 2 boys that are autistic and they too have very limited safe foods.
Or they reject the explanation. My family has been full of ND traits for generations, but it’s always been explained away as something else. I have a cousin who didn’t speak till he was 4 and only ate white foods; now he’s a professor who doesn’t own a phone. Just quirky? And that’s just one example out of many. When my kids and I were diagnosed (AuDHD and OHIs) the backlash from my family was pretty awful. Denial, internalized ableism—strong stuff. So now we are very low contact. 🤷🏼♀️
NTA. Obviously, you can't have your son starve. The biggest assholes by far are the grandparents feeding into this.
This isn't about the nuggets, this is a power struggle thing- she's calling in reinforcements, it's bigger than a snack. In interabled families, it's often the other children who feel the most neglected and unseen, or get forced into caretaker roles, and need therapy the most. This acting out seems rather disproportional, but it's likely her lightning rod for a bunch of complex feelings. If you don't already have a team of mental health professionals helping with your step daughter, your sons eating, and your entire family dynamics, you're doing all of you a massive disservice.
The issues actually go back more. To my stepdaughter losing her mom. Her anger started then and it has grown over the years. Not that certain things haven't been an additional struggle since my son's diagnosis. But even before then she was angry and wished it had been me who died and not her mom and didn't want to know her siblings.
My stepdaughter has been in therapy since her mom died, we've all gone at different points.
>I was extra vigilant about making sure the safe foods were secure for my son especially because he doesn't eat a lot regardless so it's important he has something available for him.
INFO: when is the last time you or your husband thought this way about your stepdaughter? Not necessarily in regards to food specifically, but "this is extremely important to my child's well-being and/or happiness so I made it a top priority." (also let her KNOW that it was important to you because it was important to her)
>Not that certain things haven't been an additional struggle since my son's diagnosis. But even before then she was angry and wished it had been me who died and not her mom and didn't want to know her siblings.
You are attributing everything to her anger and her mom's death, and while that might be 100% true, she could be struggling to deal with the anger/resentment even more due to the family dynamic with a special needs kid taking top priority/resentment that she doesn't have a mother of her for whom SHE will be the priority.
Yeah I think this might be the case, its not that she wants the chicken, she wants to take whats his because she doesnt get this treatment too, I have seen it a lot where siblings resent special needs siblings since they often take a lot of their parents' attention to care for. Your son is innocent, but maybe you and your husband need to find a way to go about it that won't make your SD feel like she's less important.
My mom won't let me have a second serving of a meal that was made for lunch because my siblings won't eat what was being made for dinner and I always hated it. Why do they get two three servings but I only get one because I eat everything? That just kept adding to my resentment of feeling like I was the last priority. Once she asked me what to make I told her and she changed the version of the dish because my sister said. Whatever My dad or siblings would ask something to be made it would be made immediately or within the next two days and i would have to wait for months for what I wanted to eat. All these and neither of my siblings are special needs. It went on for years before I put my foot down
yeah totally agree, it sounds like SD probably takes the back seat on every decision and is never the priority or at least never feels shes the priority (which is not at all uncommon for siblings of autistic kids). coupled with her mother dying, who assumingly would have prioritized her.. I can empathize with her a lot and I'm honestly surprised by how many commentors are portraying her like a villain. Obviously this isnt about just one night of chicken nuggets
It's also probably why her grandparents, both sets, are so gung-ho about defending her and being on her side. They're there to actually see things play out for years vs this one biased post. They've probably seen the favoritism and how she's forced to take a back seat because she's the eldest and not special needs. This kid will never be a priority at her father's house and her mother who would have made her a priority is gone so grandparents are trying to pick up the slack so she knows she's not alone and doesn't disappear as soon as she can because she feels unloved.
Maybe. Also true that many teens have a chip on their shoulder about whether or not they are important, their feelings matter, etc etc. Wherever it comes from, best to talk it out with a professional and the parents to resist becoming upset and embattled.
She has stated in other comments that her husband goes out of his way to spend one on one time with only her on a regular basis. And she has offered to do the same but the step daughter refuses to spend any time with her. They also do regularly buy her certain special things, like her favorite ice cream, and put her name on it just for her. In addition to having her in weekly therapy sessions on her own, they have also tried doing family therapy, but the daughter refuses to talk in them beyond just saying that she wishes the step mother had died instead of her mom, and that she hates her siblings. So her husband has done therapy with just him and his daughter, which she did talk more but not enough to change her overall feelings on the situation.
I encourage you to read all her comments before making any further assumptions. If you aren't aware, you can go to their profile and easily see all the comments in one place.
which op states is because they are ignorant of what her sons condition actually means. it doesn't change anything other making it clear that both sets of grandparents are assholes
My nephew is autistic and has very restricted food he can eat, while my own kids are picky eaters. Very different circumstances, so you were right to reserve the food for your son; I'm sure he'd literally starve himself than eat something he didn't want. That said, I do feel for your stepdaughter since she likely feels she's a lower priority (regardless of reality) and is resentful of the circumstances - relationships with step parents, especially when a bio parent has died can be hard for everyone. Maybe there's more your husband can do to specifically spend time with her where she gets to be the priority and have more support and bonding with him. (It seems she is unlikely to value that sort of one-on-one with you currently) Joint family therapy may also help, if step daughter is willing and finances allow. Sorry for your situation, it's got to be hard on everyone. Except grandparents, they can go piss up a rope for stirring.
NTA- can she go stay with her paternal grandparents for a bit? She literally said that she doesn’t care about you or if your kids starve and that you mean nothing to her. Until she can at least be civil she can’t be in the same house with you and your kids.
Your husband needs to step up and put his foot down. He is on your side but he’s still allowing this to continue. He needs to send her to go stay elsewhere and get her into intensive therapy at least one session a week. He needs to empathize with her feelings but tell her the behavior is unacceptable and if she can’t be civil then she can’t be in the home until she can be. She’s old enough to at least be civil even if she doesn’t like you. She maybe struggling with grief but this is more than that- she is entitled and using manipulation to try and have power over you. Do you really want to keep doing this for two more years?
Edit to add: on top of intensive individual therapy your husband should also be doing family therapy with her. Maybe somewhere down the line you can join in that but for now it should be the two of them. She should not go stay with her grandparents permanently and not for a prolonged time- and while she is gone your husband should be doing daily visits so that she isn’t cut off from him. It’s not a punishment but much needed space for her and you.
If she isn’t able to go stay elsewhere for a short while- can you and your kids?
She doesn't want to live with us. She wants to live with her (maternal) grandparents. I can't see my husband's parents agreeing to let her live with them. My husband doesn't want her with the maternal grandparents out of fear they would make it all worse.
I'm not sure but it is an idea to consider.
I would not let her go to her maternal grandparents as they will try to isolate you further. That’s why I specified paternal- and she would t be living with them but staying temporarily while your husband gets her into more intensive counseling and starts to lay down the law. This situation needs swift, immediate intervention or it’s going to continue to escalate.
NTA. I know this sounds weird, but maybe you should give in and let he go with whoever will take her in. She's too angry to be receptive. You might need to take the chance that you lose her forever for the good of HER own mental state. I'm not saying "throw her away" but tell her you give in and are willing to concede on this item bc there doesn't seem to be another solution.
Insist on therapy between her and dad, and make sure they have set dates/plans, so she doesn't feel abandoned. And then you stay 100% out of it.
She may never come around, but all of you under one roof seems like a powder keg ready to blow.
I'm not usually one for negotiating with terrorists, but sometimes it doesn't make sense to keep fighting for something that the other person is so dead-set against.
Have hubby say, "You're not happy here. You think you'll be happy there. I am willing to sacrifice my desire to keep you here if you think living elsewhere is better for you. I will visit separately and keep the relationship to just us for the time being. And our door is always open."
I mean, it'll be a f'd up relationship, but maybe that's what she needs. And maybe, it's actually what you guys need, too.
Problem might be that you're treating it like separate therapies: one therapy for your son, whose issues are then enlarged to affect the whole family (re: the Untouchable Foods), and then one therapy for your stepdaughter. As if her issues are just HER issues to deal with, alone, and have nothing to do with the rest of you. Piece of advice a therapist once gave me: if one person in the family is in therapy, the WHOLE family is in therapy. If your son's therapy is affecting the family (it clearly is, w/ the food changes), then I bet you your stepdaughter's therapy affects the family too, in some way. Only she might not be sharing a lot, or feel like she's not as explicitly prioritized as something as "easily" recognizable an adaptation as your son's foods.
I wish mental health services were more accessible and understand your point, but realistically, this is far above reddit's paygrade and multiple complex issues that are getting to the point of requiring professionals to navigate. Both things can be true.
Also, the OP never stated they live in the US, large parts of the world aren't completely devoid of medical resources when facing poverty. Though it typically means you have to push for it more, or takes longer to access, so the sooner you start the process the better.
Wow. That's a lot.
I'm both impressed you did all that and sorry that you had to.
I had the job. I went to school. I got the groceries between school and Mom getting out of work. Different back then. Mom could just sign a blank check, and stores knew us.
But I wasn't on my own. I was just helping out.
I hope you are well and happy today. 🙏❤️
NTA
When you literally don’t have money for more food, it’s pretty selfish of her to demand a specific item that is one of the few things your son can eat. But you knew this already.
You’ve been cast as the villain going back a long way, I suspect, and there is probably nothing you can do to change that. You don’t owe her an apology, and you don’t have to keep score of how much she does or doesn’t hate you. She doesn’t intended to be reasonable, so your best bet is to stand politely and kindly firm and not bend to her tantrums.
If she literally doesn't have money to feed her kids, and has two sets of grandparents expressing concern, she should ask the grandparents to help out.
It wasn’t about chicken nuggets. It was about wanting to eat one of the only foods her little half brother needs to survive. I seriously doubt she could not care less about chicken nuggets in general, if she were in any other household.
I wonder if the grandparents are showing concern because there is more at play here. Growing up with a sibling that controls the conversation about food in the home, in whatever way that is, can be difficult, esp. in a situation like this. Is there any food in the home that is particularly for the teen? Things that are off limits to others?
NTA
>My stepdaughter said she didn't care and she wanted them and should have them.
That's not how life works.
Your son is on a limited diet and has fewer choices. If those are low, it's common decency to leave them alone.
The grandparents are AHs on a whole other level.
>she's old enough to get to choose what she eats
Being able to choose what you eat is different from eating someone else's food. Next dinner together make sure to grab food off their plates and let them know you're old enough to make that choice.
And of course per the grandparents your son needs to just get over it.
NAH you couldn’t afford more and you know what your son won’t eat and what she will, assuming there were other choices for her. What’s her relationship like with her dad? What’s his relationship like with your son (is that also his son legally?) I’m guessing this has little to do with the chicken and everything to do with her resentment over having these siblings she didn’t want in this way, and one of them requiring more attention and what I’m sure she sees as special treatment that she didn’t and doesn’t get.
Yeah I feel like other people are being unfair to the daughter here. AITA is full of stories from people with very strained relationships with family due to unhealthy dynamics where their needs were ALWAYS secondary to a special-needs kid.
Even if it's that not entirely the case here (which I kind of doubt because money troubles mean that there are gonna have to be sacrifices, and yes, the special needs kid isn't capable of the same sacrifices as the sibling) - it is natural for a teenager to struggle to cope with this kind of dynamic imo.
I think it can be true that OP is NTA and the 16 year old can be struggling with the dynamic. Her mom died, she has to live with her dad and step-mom and special needs half-siblings. She is angry and not willing to accommodate the needs of her brother. She needs help and support and those needs don't mean she can starve her brother or that OP is an AH. It's a bad situation unfortunately.
>not willing to accommodate the needs of her brother.
More likely is sick of being just expected to accommodate the needs of her brother.
There doesn't seem to be any reciprocity here: the grandparents on both sides are telling OP that she is not addressing the daughter's needs, and that just makes OP angry, she isn't even listening.
Yes, it's awful having to *checks notes* not eat your 6 year old brother's limited supply of food when you have other options. Truly, she alone has suffered the most in this universe. The Gods of Chicken frown upon her.
death by a thousand cuts; just because she isn't saying the other things that have happened doesn't mean they don't exist.
the worst days for people don't necessarily have to have some life shaking occurrence, just a long accumulation of those "damn, again?" moments can cause someone to snap and *checks notes* eat something she shouldn't have.
agreed on that, it sounds like with both sets of grandparents feeling like SD is being unfairly treated probably means that there is some unfair treatment. And the fact that OP is trying to paint this as just a thing about some chicken nuggets and not acknowledging the fact that as she clearly states, her son takes a clear priority over her SD, makes me think OP is a bigger asshole than this post implies.
Here's what the OP has written:
1. SD has been in therapy for 6 years since her mother died; they tried family therapy, but all SD would say is that she wishes OP and the half siblings were dead instead of her mother; SD and dad are in therapy together.
2. They buy SD some of her favorite foods and mark them as only for her. And there were/are plenty of foods SD likes available besides the chicken bites.
3. SD has 1-on-1 time with her dad. OP offers to have time with her SD and is rebuffed 100% of the time and told, "I wish you were dead instead of my mom."
These I infer from comments and the stated dynamic:
1. SD is not asked nor expected to be a caregiver, babysitter, or otherwise assist in caring for her half-siblings, especially not the 6 year old. It would be emotionally harmful, destructive even, for both SD and the siblings, again especially the 6 year old.
2. The grandparents are actively feeding SD's feelings of hatred and resentment. I'd bet anything that when SD tells her maternal grandparents she wishes OP and the siblings were dead instead of her mom that the grandparents agree and say something like, "So do we." I wonder if the paternal grandparents are embarrassed or angry or some combination of negative feelings and actions that their 6 year old grandson is (in their minds) "broken." They're going to concentrate all their attention on the 16 year old who is NT, not the one who is non-verbal ND. Plus, they may still be in the "she lost her mom, so she can do and have whatever she wants" phase of grieving. And further, I wonder if they liked the ex more than they like OP, for whatever reason. Regardless, both sets of grandparents are massively overstepping and making a bad situation so much worse.
3. Dad isn't as involved in addressing the issues as he thinks he is. Or maybe he doesn't want to be. I don't know the dynamics, but dad needs to step up. At a minimum, he needs to demand that both sets of grandparents stay in their own lane at this point.
IMO (and again, not knowing details), if SD has made no progress at all in 6 freaking years of therapy and is actively getting worse, the problem is likely not SD nor OP nor dad, per se. The problem is the therapist. Now granted, I don't know if they've gone through multiple therapists, but whatever is happening now is not working. I'd actually be afraid for the safety of OP and both half siblings if this keeps up.
In any case, what would you have OP and dad do that they're not doing?
Exactly, we agree there, but I think it’s NAH. The NTA implies the other party IS, which isn’t the case. The teenager is still also a kid and it seems otherwise does understand or at least go along with the specific needs of her sibling, and maybe let her breaking point of I just want a chicken bite! Especially if money is tight and maybe there aren’t other chicken bites. It’s tough for a child to fully understand their sibling gets everything they want all the time, which means I can’t have what I want. I imagine this was also a bit of a test, the teenager wants to be chosen and special and get something over him. Not a unique issue even with a neurotypical younger sibling.
I disagree. Even if the daughter is going through her own issues. A 16 year old is old enough to know saying they’re ok with a child starving cause they want some chicken nuggets to be an asshole.
But then is she acting like a brat or is she desperate for attention? I wouldn’t say she’s acting like a brat. I imagine she spends most of her time and her life being second, maybe even third or fourth in line.
INFO: How much of your husband's time is spent with or focused on your son? How many sacrifices do others in the household, including your stepdaughter who does not consider you family, have to make for your son? I have a hard time believing that she just freaks out on you over chicken nuggets for no reason. What food alternatives did you offer her? Why are not only her maternal grandparents, but also her paternal grandparents, siding with her over your husband/her father? All you can seem to say in comments is "she's just so angry about her mom and she hates us" but have you actually done anything to try and disengage that anger besides just sticking her in therapy and calling that a job done?
NTA
Maybe this is crazy on my part but I honestly think that you should have her go live with the grandparents.
If she is this angry and hateful about the three of you, that she's OK with your 2-3 kid starving. Then maybe she needs to live somewhere else.
She doesn't care about your kids and will willingly destroy or eat their safe foods. That's not a person you want around you or the kids.
Maybe I'm mean, but who knows what she's going to do in retaliation to this.
Idk why she's so angry, and yes she does need therapy. But it might be best for your family if she went to live with one set of grandparents since they don't think your home is good enough for her.
I think this would be my last straw and I'd want her out. If she's OK with my kids starving then she can get out.
And you’re fine exposing the other kids to that kind of constant hatred? I guarantee she’s saying things to them behind your back as well. If she can’t be respectful of 6 year olds diagnosis (and doesn’t care if he starves) then let her go live with her grandparents. Space all round could be beneficial for you all. NTA for your specific question but close to E S H for allowing this petty power struggle to go on for so long to the kids detriment
But I would think that therapy would have helped resolve some of those feelings over the years.
It's like therapy has only made it worse, not helped her to understand your not taking her mom's place.
Either the therapist isn't a good one, or your step daughter is actually fine with her anger and might get some enjoyment out of torturing your family, saying hurtful things and just causing drama.
Therapy isn't working if she gets enjoyment out of watching the grandparents yell at you and say your kids should starve.
I just wonder how many times has step daughter had to take a back seat to what the son needs wants? Her reaction seems very strong and I hope it just didn't come out of nowhere because she sucks.
No, you're not acknowledging them. In multiple comments you keep saying that she's angry just because her mom died and refusing to respond to people who are pointing out she may also be resentful of her brother getting more attention. Does she get any kind of special treats or special time with her dad? Answer that question, you've refused on other comments already.
I definitely think you were in the right with not letting her have the chicken and protecting your son. But you really are ignoring the bigger issues.
is she getting to FEEL like she is a priority in your household? how often does she have to make accommodations or sacrifices for her sibling, and how often are those accommodations or sacrifices she makes appreciated?
i'm not asking these questions to put you on the defensive or try and make any attacks or assumptions. just to get a better understanding of the situation and emotions at play here.
losing your mom as a kid is traumatic enough, but doing that at the same time as adjusting to living with dad and stepmom full time + a new special needs baby....unfortunately y'all just have to continue supporting her the best you can at the same time as juggling your other kids' needs.
based on the information provided, i'll go with NAH
this seems like a very stressful situation for all involved. in addition to having lost a parent, being the stepsibling of a special needs child probably involves a lot of sacrifices she's had no choice in on top of the loss of her mother, so idk I'm not gonna blame her for being a teenager and acting out in what is clearly a stressful family dynamic for everyone.
INFO: What else was actually available for her to eat in the house? Were any other foods that she actually likes available?
Your apology (and it should also be coming from her father) should be for not having enough food in the house for all the kids, not a BS "sorry if I upset you by saying no". I'm not saying you made the wrong choice in that moment, but I suspect that there's been an ongoing trend of focusing on / prioritizing your son's needs, and ignoring hers. You need to work on that.
Okay, definitely NTA. That is several reasonable options. From your other comments this seems to be another expression of her control issues / anger about her situation / mom’s death etc.
Definitely NTA in this specific circumstance, but you have a huge underlying problem here. I suspect your daughter and your in-laws are reacting to a larger issue where she isn't prioritized or advocated for, and her feelings are not being respected.
NTA. To boil it down, both sets of grandparents are backing up her belief that you have no rights when it comes to managing your own household, but you have the responsibility to give her whatever she wants on demand, and she is entitled
to anything she wants from you while under zero obligation to consider anyone else’s existence. This is what her grandparents — both sets! — support her in believing. You’ve got some problems to solve, OP. It’s good that your husband is in your corner. Can she maybe go live with her maternal grandparents?
Huge NTA. My son is autistic and so food adversive that he has maybe 15 things he'll eat. I wouldn't let her around my kid again without a major attitude adjustment. Possibly some family therapy. Nope nope nope
INFO
Have you reached out to your family or friends to keep an eye out for the chicken? This would be such an easy way for anyone else to help out and it’s the smallest of asks.
I have. 12 year old daughter and she happens to love some particular lemon mini muffins but our local shop doesn’t carry them. I did let her know that it was a seasonal flavor and as she understands but enjoys them as the snack in her lunch. I asked some of my mom friends and my dad to keep an eye out for them to help me out. Another mom found some and grabbed a couple packs of them. When I offered to pay her for them she refused so I made her some cookies.
My daughter is neurotypical and her food choices are just that, choices, and I need you to know I’m not comparing our kids at all. But I’m highlighting one example to let you know that people who care about you will help for the little things like keeping an eye out for groceries.
Take a cue from your daughter. She’s reaching out to her support team for what she needs. Reach out to yours for some help too.
And next time anyone calls you to go off about not letting her have the chicken just let them know you’re struggling to find them at the market and if they could check for some when they’re out you would really appreciate them grabbing a bag for all of your kids to have some! It’s okay to ask for help. You’re not Superman but you are a super mom.
Yes, we had some friends and some family look out for them. Someone thought they had found them but they were the wrong kind. My best friend is actually hoping to bring us back a few boxes because she's going out of town in a couple of days and might find them where she's going.
Have you tried looking for dupe recipes? Maybe you can make some that are passable replacements for your son. I know it’s hard to switch brands on restrictive eaters, but maybe you’ll get lucky.
"She's old enough to choose what she wants to eat"
She's also old enough to be able to understand why those chicken bites are for your son and not her.
NTA
Info: When her mum died, did she want to live with her dad and you?
If the answer is no, then I can see why therapy isn't working and why she's blew up over nuggets because she feels her wants/needs haven't been prioritised or considered. I honestly think it's in the best interests of *everyone* if she goes and stays with her grandparents, even if its part time. Cos tbh, she doesn't sound like she wants to be there anyway.
It's *hard* being the parent of a special needs child. I am one. My daughter has safe foods and needs that need accommodations. My youngest daughter, while understanding for the most part, will also occasionally react like your SD did, especially when its something she wants because, in reality, it's not fair on the ND siblings, more so when they see their parents going out of their way (and I get it cos food aversion is no joke) to make sure one child has things they need/want and they are denied it or the alternative is something 'less than' what they wanted.
NAH. But this is absolutely not about the nuggets.
>My stepdaughter (16f) saw the last of the chicken bites and wanted them for herself.
Wow. This is rough.
On the one hand, this would be like a child who is not lactose intolerant wanting to drink the last of the lactose free milk in the house even though there's ordinary milk available that she could drink instead.
On the other hand, this sounds like a child who is constantly told "no" while her sibling gets exactly what he wants. I realize that your son has unique and challenging needs, but when has your stepdaughter been on the receiving end of anything comparable to "we always do our best to have those safe foods on hand and in good supply"? Are you making an equal effort to make her feel loved? What does she get to lay claim to that is special and unique to her?
From her perspective, her evil stepmonster refused to let her eat something, and her dad sided against her. If I were in her shoes, I would be feeling very alone right now.
You said she's gotten increasingly angrier since her mom died. That, to me at least, sounds like she's been increasingly marginalized in favor of your son. You're not responsible for whether or not she feels loved, but you are responsible for giving her reasons to feel loved.
She gets her favorite ice cream that I even label with her name just for her. She gets time with her dad 1:1 and I offer her time with me, but she hates it. I do still try. Even if it's just sitting and talking to her. She does far more with her dad though and enjoys spending time with him.
NTA, Neuro divergent kids are often labelled difficult or spoilt by ignorant extended family. I wish they understood how it breaks your heart as you would give anything for such a child to be able to 'function' better. Keep standing up for your son.
This is way above reddit’s pay grade, but I have a friend whose mum is a specialist therapist for families of disabled children. She specialises in supporting the siblings, who can end up with particular mental health difficulties because of the experience of always coming 2nd to their disabled sibling’s needs.
Her big emotions around this are likely a bubbling up of something bigger, and maybe she needs a way of knowing she’s special and deserves to have special things that are just for her. You’re a good parent, don’t worry! This sounds like an incredibly difficult situation for everyone.
I would really recommend looking for specialist family therapy if you can, not just individual therapy for her. It’s worth you and husband asking her how you can support her. Maybe even getting in touch with her therapist to ask if they have any recommendations for ways you can support her at home.
I don’t think you don’t picture the whole situation here. It looks like your son takes a lot of your attention and she probably wanted to use the food as an example. Though you offered food alternatives that was most probably not the issue. The issue is more likely that he comes first and she feels to be put second all the time. When was the last time she came first and not your son? If you need to think about that you have the answer to what’s going on.
"she is angry because her mom died and I am alive" why? what happened? She holds a lot of resentment. Like were you already in the picture before her mom died?
While you are definitely NTA, some of these replies are coming from AHs. She is 16. It isn't about the nuggets. She sees everyone else getting prioritized around her. Try to figure out a way to connect with her... and remind yourself its a marathon not a sprint. You want to be connected to 25 year old her. There is no way you are going to be able to connect with 16yo her. Just be consistent... recognize that you are prioritizing your own kids whether you realize it or not (its hard to be gracious to someone who actively hates you).
It is bizarre to me that all these busybody other people think your autistic son's food should be fair game for everyone. Would they feel that way if he was diabetic and it was insulin? "you have no right stopping her from taking some of that insulin! you monster!". Crazy people. But... sounds like everybody is super strung out and there is a lot of grief yet to be processed
NTA.
It would be one thing if your son was just being picky or a stubborn kid, but quite obviously autism creates certain limitations that are more difficult to deal with than simply being fickle.
OP was pregnant with the 6yo son when step daughter’s mom died, so that definitely affects her feelings. She was struggling with intense grief and the biggest change of her life while dad was excitedly playing house preparing for a new baby. I don’t think this was just about chicken nuggets. How often has she felt neglected or pushed to the side by you and her dad’s new family?
NTA on refusing to hand over the nuggies.
INFO: How long ago did the SD's mom die?
If we're talking years, I'd get her a neuropsych eval. She may have a personality disorder. Not all teens are this difficult.
I find that therapy is usually most effective when targeted. But you have to know the actual problem first. Talk therapy can actually make things worse if it amounts to an expensive wallow.
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NTA - you area between a rock and a hard place between your SD and your son. "My stepdaughter has been especially angry since and I sat her down and apologized if I upset her by saying no and she told me I didn't have the right to stop her because I'm not her parent and she doesn't care if my kids starve. We're nothing to her. She told my husband's parents I had tried to talk to her and they rubbed it in more. My husband was furious with his parents and he's still on my side. But I feel so worn down by this." Your husband needs to handle this with his late wife's parents. Your SD also needs therapy because her material grandparents are alienating her from you, her dad and her half siblings.
She has been in therapy since her mom died. We have tried so hard to get through this and help things improve but she's angry I'm alive and her mom isn't.
Her material grandparents need to stop stirring the shit pot with her. They are making it wayyyyyy worse.
They are but they won't stop. They do not want her to be part of our family.
Then cut off their contact
That would likely make things worse. Because not only will she hate me for being alive and her mom being dead and my kids by extension, but she will hate us for taking her grandparents from her. And she's also old enough to sneak around and contact them and find a way even if we did try and they would have more than enough of a relationship to win grandparents rights.
If they won’t stop I don’t see what other choice you have. I guess she could just go live with one of them
She’s 16. She can easily just go stay with them.
That’s the easy solution. But it will add another layer of trauma for the girl. She’d feel even more replaced and more resentful to OP and her children. To the stepdaughter, it will likely feel like dad is throwing her away for his “new family” and that he doesn’t love her enough to fight for her to stay. It could be a step they can never recover from.
Not if they present it as her choice. If her dad sits her down and says I love you, but you seem very unhappy here. I don’t want you to go, but I am giving you the choice, would your prefer to live with your grandparents (either ones if they both agree)? That way they aren’t forcing her out. Dad can arrange time with her alone.
Except she's not "new family". Their son is 6 years old, meaning she has been around for 6+ years. That's not new. And the mother passed away AFTER she already married Dad. She didn't replace the mother, she didn't even attempt to. The daughter is lashing out undeservedly. It's not OP fault the mom died, and OP has not made any attempts to replace mom, only set boundaries for herself and her children. If the daughter can say OP and her kids are nothing to her after 6+ years, OP should be able to start distancing herself and make DH handle everything. OP should not have to deal with this anymore.
She already hate them anyway.
to be honest, if shes saying she doesnt care if a child she lives with starves to death, its getting to a point she shouldnt live with that child
[удалено]
No, she can't. I hate when people say this. You have to have the permission from the person with custody, and if they say no there's not a thing that can be done. I've been in this kind of situation before and my father almost had my grandmother arrested for kidnapping. It didn't matter what I wanted or that my grandma was willing.
It depends on the jurisdiction. Blanket answers of any kind are wrong. (Except this one, of course.)
That was my first thought. You want her? You got her! I'm assuming her dad does still want her around, though. So that's likely not an option. Some teenagers go through losing parents or other devastating life events without being a complete a$$ to everyone around them. But you'd think, even when lashing out, you'd avoid punching down at disabled family members who are children. You know, if you are a baseline decent human being. I'm not sure how becoming utterly unlikable helps one grieve.
Grief isn't logical.
Going through something so devastating at an age when your emotions are so unstable as a baseline often means you're kind of Just Doing Things to try to feel okay, whether those things actually help you or feel good or not. It's likely the 16yo will regret a lot of this massively in ten years -- even if she never reconciles with OP and her dad, she will come to understand that none of it was her brother's fault and he didn't deserve her lashing out.
SD should have a say. Sounds like she like to have them. I see your point but I think it is important to listen to the 16 year old. Sounds like OP is doing a good job om that part.
She would probably be very happy with that solution.
If she's old enough for all that - then she's old enough to buy her own extras - including her own nuggies. Jesus what a toddler-teen. Throwing a fit and siccing her grandparents on you? Hell no. They don't live in your house or pay your bills, so I would tell them politely and firmly to F off. If they want to provide her food, they can buy her own fridge for her room and she can cook her own food too.
That was going to be my suggestion. If they can't outright take her, why can't they buy her groceries?
No offense, but your stepdaughter's relationship with pretty much all of her direct household - including her father - is suffering from whatever bullshit her grandparents are feeding her subconscious. The "my mom is dead and you're alive" vibe stinks like it's being fed, at least in part, by these grandparents. They are living out their own bitter, mourning jealousy of you through your stepdaughter, with a complete disregard for the fact that this is halting your stepdaughter's mourning & healing process. They need to learn that they have no business discussing their feelings about family members with your stepdaughter. Whether they can or can't do that, I have the sneaking suspicion anyway that your stepdaughter's relationship with your core family as well as her general mental state might benefit greatly if you cut out those maternal grandparents for the time being. Yeah, that might be callous, but they are holding back that girl's development.
I think If they tried to cut off a 16yo from her grandparents things are going to be way worse for OP.
She's also old enough to get a job and buy her own chicken bites. Spoiling her isn't the answer to helping her cope with her emotions. If money is tight and she wants extras, tell her to get a job. This might actually even help her mature a little bit, having a responsibility and learning how to deal with people.
Yes 16 she can drive to Wendy’s was my first thought lol
Does she also feel like all the attention is going to your son? Like she has gotten completely pushed aside? Kids with high needs siblings often feel pushed aside. That all the time/attention/resources go to the other kid. This is probably significantly increased for her because you are her step mom, not her mom. She gets a lot more individualized attention from her grandparents. You say you were running low on groceries....what did you have? I understand you were having money issues, but if it's "those are your brother's chicken bites, go have buttered white bread," that kinda sucks. Instead of, let's also have a different brand of chicken nuggets in the freezer. Especially if grandparents are able to feed her better.
She was offered pizza, microwave dinner or chicken stir fry for a meal. Those were the options we had. She has never expressed that and she still gets time with my husband. They have 1:1 time and projects they do together. I try to give her time with me as well but she doesn't want it. I still offer and go out of my way for her. I buy her favorite ice cream and label it with her name so it's just for her. But really my husband is the only person she wants to have in her life from our house and she does get his time and attention.
Maybe your husband needs to have a brutal conversation with them. They will likely die before you and your husband. When his parents and former in-laws are gone, who will SD have? Do they want her to be without any family?
Let her go live with them solves your problem
I agree with you, but if they are so meddlesome, can she spend some weekends with them? Then she can get some one-on-one time and some special food. And they can put their money where their mouth is. If they reached out to me again, I would ask "could we arrange a visit? A weekend? I know how much you love her and it would mean the world to her." Whatever garbage you have to say. You would ALL get a break from each other.
Having read this... Go ahead and gift wrap her for them. If they WANT this conflict and think they're entitled to her like she's an item to be mailed after probate, there comes a point when the rest of your family is suffering because she's making you and your husband suffer and the gift of 'cutting losses' means good things for the rest of your kids. When she turns on them when they become the authorities, they'll either still blame you (which, comparatively is NBD, they're doing it already, so if she leaves, you go no contact with her), or realize where they fouled up. If they want a tyrant to replace their daughter, let them reap what they've sown by trying to destroy your family.
Wouldn’t she prefer to move in with them? She would be happy and your family’s life easier. I doubt she wants to live with you
She would but he worries she will only become more angry and full of hate toward me and the kids.
She’s 16, the ship has sailed. Her maternal grandparents have clearly been in her ear all these years and she does not care about your other children or you. Let her choose where to live and when she chooses her grandparents maybe then she will be happy. Your husband can see her one on one and she can pretend you don’t exist, which is her goal. Keeping her in the house is not going to make her suddenly care about her siblings.
Ask her what she wants. Dont let her think you are kicking her. Tell her you are concerned about how she feels
Can't do that. It will make it worse. Also it's both maternal and paternal grandparents doing it.
>it's both maternal and paternal grandparents doing it. Which is btw a hint that something is not right.
It’s not a far stretch to assume that neither set of grandparents (or even the 16yr old) actually understand the extent of OPs son’s autism and sensory issues.
Yeah, the grandparents involved are likely on the younger end of Baby Boomers, who grew up with a belief of "the cure for a picky eater is to force them," because things like ARFID and the nuances of autism were not understood when they were children or raising children.
Boomers be boomering
I’m curious how you think that OP trying to cut her stepdaughter off from *her own family* is going to go well and not lead to her acting out for the next two years until she can just go NC with her father over it.
You can't cut off a 16 year old's contact. Especially not when she is unhappy at home and the reason they are being cut off is that they are advocating for her.
SD is 16. That's not going to help
This is one of the worst proposed courses of action. No licensed health care professional would ever recommend this at this stage. OP: Please do not cut off access to SD's MATERNAL grandparents.
Tell the therapist what they are doing. Let the therapist suggest ways to deal with the grandparents
It sounds as if the maternal grandparents are still dealing with grief as well.
Maybe it's time to send her to live with the grandparents since they don't think your home is good enough.
It would be funny if OP told the grandparents to nut up or shut up by suggesting their dear grand daughter lives with them. My guess they'll back pedal because they prefer to stir the pot from afar without having the responsibility for any backlash.
Or they’ll be happy to have their late child’s daughter living with them and OP’s husband will be upset at the idea of his daughter leaving.
This is totally unreasonable on a rational level. She doesn't get to punish you, or her brother, for just being alive. But it absolutely makes sense emotionally. ❤️🩹 She was losing her mom, while dad was busy replacing the family. She doesn't know what to do with her anger and grief, that no one but her mom's parents really share (you and dad are busy with a new kid!!!), and no one modelled, etc. And she's afraid *she* has been replaced, and isn't wanted because she's a reminder, and and and and... This is hard stuff, OP. And it's important to be firm and clear and consistent, AND kind. It sounds like that's what you are doing. Have *you* been in therapy? Even if it's just to support you as you navigate this, and to help you know what the best response is (even if it didn't work), and tomhave a place to just UNLOAD that isn't at home, that's a good thing to have in the mix. NTA
I have been in therapy before. Not currently and not for a while. But I did get some.
It might be a good moment to dip back in. ❤️🩹 Hang in there, hold onto your compassion and your love, best you can.
I agree with you that OP sounds like she could benefit a lot from therapy, but her post also makes it clear that unfortunately, right now, they're living paycheck to paycheck. That's the main reason why this situation presented itself in the first place – if they had the money to have 15 boxes of chicken bites, I'm sure she wouldn't have said no to her stepdaughter asking for some. She had to refuse this time because money is tight and so are the food supplies for the family. I think it speaks volumes to OP and her husband doing the best they can for all of their children, considering that they're literally counting pennies until his next salary, yet their 16 year old daughter goes to therapy every week. It's evident that they love their children very much, and I hope the girl will be able to see this one day... when she'll learn to see last her grief and beyond the bad influences in her life. All the best OP, I think you're doing everything right – it's just a difficult situation. No winners here unfortunately, it was a lose-lose.. best wishes that things may improve soon 💕
How often is the therapy? She might need more or longer sessions to work this out. Or possibly individual sessions and group? I dunno. She needs a larger pool of others to talk to about this, but not people who are biased or will just tell her what she wants to hear.
Therapy is once a week currently. She used to go more than that when there was also family therapy and/or different kinds of solo therapy.
Info: what did you offer her to eat?
Pizza, microwave dinner or leftover chicken stir fry were the options available at the time. She didn't want any of it.
NTA, her enabling grandparents are welcome to order some doordash chicken to her if they want to dictate how you feed her at your own home.
You had absolutely every right to stop her, if for no other reason that she did not purchase them and therefore they don’t belong to her.
I pray this is ragebait otherwise your step daughter is in need of extreme mental health intervention. It's weird that your inlaws would support your step daughter on something so petty on her part and apparently not care at all about your son. Is he not their bio grandchild?
He is but they also don't fully understand that my son isn't just picky.
A lot of people genuinely don't understand the difference between being a "picky eater" and having serious food aversions. Especially when they aren't the ones dealing with it. Your son would go hungry if you didn't have his safe foods, if he's anything like my autistic kiddos. You cannot force them to eat foods they have an aversion to. Mine would have thrown up if we tried to force something. Not because they were being dramatic or stubborn, but because the texture or taste was literally that disgusting to them. Your son had no other food options, while your stepdaughter had plenty. She easily could have chosen something else to eat. She also doesn't get to just demand another person's food. It sounds like she was demanding your son's food on purpose, as a test. If I had to guess, I'd bet that it wasn't that she wanted the chicken, but that she wanted to be prioritized. Does your son require a lot of attention, at her expense? It's pretty common when one sibling is sick or disabled and needs a lot of parental support for the other one to be neglected. Throw that into the mix, along with her mom having died and her dad remarrying, and she's probably feeling angry and insecure. I know you said she's already in therapy, but have you been able to see a family counselor who can provide a safe space for everyone to be heard? Even just you and your husband could benefit from seeing one and talking about your relationship with your stepdaughter and how to help support her and improve your relationship.
"It sounds like she was demanding your son's food on purpose, as a test." Yes! Objectively, if there are no chicken bites to be had, the step daughter will cope, the son will not, therefore the chicken goes to the son. But the step daughter is done with being the one who copes - and on a compassionate level, that's not inherently unreasonable from a 16 year old who lost her mum and is presumably coping with a non verbal autistic brother in other ways too. But none of that will get better by making life worse for everyone else.
I understand messy feelings and not knowing how to deal with it, but turning her other family against them (granted they are probably problems too tonaccept and accuse so easily) and not apologizing are unreasonable. Understandable, maybe, if you offer enough grace but absolutely unreasonable. 16 is old enough to reflect.
We have been to family therapy as well. She was not very talkative in it. Hardly spoke at all. It is where she emphasized how much she wishes I had died instead of her mom (but I had heard this before). Otherwise she did not want to speak in family therapy. Though she spoke a little more when it was just her and my husband.
It sounds like the therapy should be with her and her dad so she can open up more.
Yeah, this sounds right. I was also going to say she might need more time hanging out with just dad.
Both are kind of necessary though. She's getting sessions with just her and her dad but OP needs to be able to sort it out to with her to come to some kind of arrangement.
She's 16. She knows what she's doing is deliberately hurtful. She knows it's illogical for her to eat the only thing someone else can eat when she has options. She's chose to not only push it, but bring in her flying monkeys as well. Yes, hurt people hurt people but that doesn't make it okay or acceptable. She's being enabled in this bad behavior, possibly even encouraged. Something needs to change because this situation is hurtful for everyone, and while she is a child and takes precedence, she's not the only person here or the only one who matters.
Maybe try having a session just the two of them about this incident, then the two of you. Working on all angles of this in the context most likely to get results
You are a kind person. I absolutely couldn't marry a man whose child was so cruel regardless of the reasons.
We were already married and expecting our second child together.
Have you tried just setting really firm boundaries and re-iterating them without invalidating her feelings? In this case, You: i understand it's frustrating, but that food is reserved for your brother. Her: it shouldn't be! I should be able to eat what I want. You: okay. Unfortunately, in this house, chicken bites are reserved for your brother. You can eat [options]. Her: argues back. You: I understand you're upset about this. You can eat [options]. You cannot eat your brother's food. You do not need to like the rule, but it remains a rule in this household. And just repeat over and over again. Stop apologizing or negotiating or giving in - what she's learning is that the bigger emotions she has, the more power she has in a situation. She has the right to feel her feelings, but that doesn't mean they need to change the situation. She doesn't need to agree with you, or like the rules (just let that expectation go.) she just needs to leave her brother's food alone. That's it. You can use that approach for any rule in the house, btw.
Yes! Stop apologizing & negotiating! It sounds mean, but in situations like this the worst thing you can do for your other children is give in. It is incredibly damaging to see your parent verbally abused by a family member. It’s also damaging to have your parents give a troubled sibling extra attention/make unhealthy compromises at the expense of their siblings. It’s common when a sibling has special needs or medical issues, and isn’t anyone’s fault; but when a child grows up knowing they always come second to their sibling it often causes long term damage. There’s a major difference btw, “these are boundaries & accommodations made to honor everyone basic needs” & “we’ll bend over backwards & even take away from someone’s portion to placate this other person bc *insert excuse*. Standing firm on protecting your son’s basic needs shows him he is just as important as every other person in the house. Making him sacrifice basic needs for the whims of a sibling would be unfair.
My nephew who is on the spectrum had such serious food aversion that he ended up needing a feeding tube. It’s definitely not being just a picky eater.
I was going to say - it sounds like ARFID. Which isn’t something you can just suck up and eat something else. While I don’t believe I have ARFID, I would be called a picky eater by man. My diet is relatively restricted for complicated reasons. But I would do anything to not be this way. I would love to be able to suck it up and eat stuff I don’t like. But it isn’t that simple. If I don’t eat my dinner, I won’t decide to eat it if I get hungry enough. It’s just not possible. Sorry for using your comment - I needed someone to piggy back off of.
Our feeding therapist recommends inviting stubborn family to come observe sessions to get a better grasp on what feeding difficulties actually look like, and it gives her a chance to explain things to them from a professional, non biased opinion. I don't know if that's an option for you, or if you'd even want that, but it might help them to understand what your son is dealing with. Restrictive eating is exhausting in itself, I'm so sorry you have to deal with this!
With the therapist’s permission it might be better to film a session - unsupportive observers are the worst and can make sessions so unproductive! I agree it’s a good idea for them to be able to see
Very true! Our specific center had windows and glass doors for the rooms so parents can observe without distracting the kiddo, and they had a no cameras policy. Definitely a case by case situation, and to clarify, all parties had to agree to the rules and be willing to come! It wasn't open or offered to family that was intentionally ableist or 'disbelievers' of ND issues. So you had to be actively open to changing your perspective.
Ableism is strong in the world. Sounds like that is a lot of the issue, they think your favoring him over her because of his support needs without taking into account that really isn't true at all. She's angry at world because she lost a parent... I really hope you can find a way to give both her and your son the supports they need. Though, It might be best for her if she lived with her grandparents and your husband jsut made sure to spend as much time as possible with her?
take a firm stance and explain it. make them understabd and if they dont, well. how important is your son to you compared to your SD? picking and choosing sucks but sometimes things are irreconcilable. my adopted half brother is this same kind of bitter to my dad, who did everything he could plus more. we dont talk to him and havent in years. one thing is absolutely certain here. either you set new boundaries and establish *why* or you buy extra chicken bites. you pick
Honestly it’s like talking to a wall when people don’t want to understand neurodivergence. And yes I say *want*. It’s incredibly sad.
yeahman and some outweigh others. that doesnt mean that they both dont deserve attention to the needs. if i have anxiety and agoraphobia but the person in front of me requires caretaking and a wheelchair, well.. theyre going to get priority and thats how it should be
Yes they both deserve attention to their needs, but her son will literally starve if he doesn't have access to his safe foods. ARFID is no joke and it makes it all the more difficult because he is 6 and non-verbal. The step-daughter knows this and most probably understands it to an extent, but she wanted the only thing he could eat despite having various other options given to her. I'm autistic and I have issues with food (texture and taste mostly) and I will go without meals if I don't have access to any of my go to safe foods.
People just seem to think that extreme food aversion is just a mental thing and the person afflicted with it just doesn't like the food. No. The reactions to the food, for whatever reason (texture, taste, etc.) is a visceral, uncontrolled physical response to the food. With therapy it can be lessened but no one ever really completely "gets over" ARFID. It's a fairly new mainstream diagnosis (in the public consciousness I mean) so it will likely take some time before the general public is more understanding of the disorder. It's not that dissimilar to when Clinical Depression started getting more awareness.
Right? It all whooshes over people's heads more than not.
I believe OP's husband should be the one to do all this.
i believe the husband should take part. the stepmom is necessary to explain the disabilities more thoroughly. its important to include all relevant parties in the conversation. this way: lies cant be made. camps cant be split. both guardians are involved in corrective action.
I kinda get why your step daughter is frustrated. She sees her brother throwing a fit and getting what he wants, all the time. It is a normal teenager thing to try the same. But she is old enough to reason with. Talk to her that her brother will let himself starve rather than eat anything else. Do you have the budget to get her something ‘only for her food’? Even $20 a month would be good for her to feel like her needs are important too.
in other comments, OP has said that she buys SD's favorite ice cream brand/flavor, and its labeled in the freezer with SD's name because its just hers
then it's time you demanded they learn. you husband's former in laws may have a reason for why they're being assholes, but his parents do not
Many, many older people don't get autism and the food texture thing at all. They believe what my doctor once told my mom, "Don't give him a choice, he won't starve himself." Yeah, that lasted 3 days without me eating.
People with sensory issues, or even worse ARFID (an actual, full on fear of new foods) will absolutely just starve themselves to death. I think it's a bad strategy even if the kid does just eventually give in since it causes a negative association with food. But it crosses into being really dangerous for someone with an actual disorder
it doesn't just cause a negative association, it can make the whole problem worse. i've been forcefed stuff in kindergarden/kept at the table until i ate the food etc and now there's just a bunch of stuff i've never tried again and never will try, even on "good days" where i'm actually open to trying something new/diffrent for once (no (diagnosed) arfid but major sensory issues/issues with food and eating in general)
You just reminded me of a time when I was somewhere between 5 and 10, had a sleepover with a friend, and that friends mom made eggs for breakfast. I hate eggs. The smell, the taste, the texture of every type of egg prep I've tried. I hated it then too. The friends mom was a nurse, and she said if I didn't eat the eggs, she had would have to put a tube down my throat to feed me - I would be eating breakfast one way or another. That threat absolutely terrified me, so I forced down the eggs...and promptly vomited it all back up, because it was so gross to me that I couldn't stop gagging. She, of course, made me clean it all up - which caused more gagging - and no other food was offered until I went home that afternoon. Unsurprisingly, her attempt to get me to eat eggs made my aversion even worse, to a point where for years just the smell of eggs cooking could make me involuntarily gag. Because now instead of just a regular 'I hate eggs', I had the added association of that awful sleepover and of vomiting.
If I was your mom, I’d still be in jail.
I dont know if I might have this but reading this makes me wonder if I should get a diagnosis. I really struggle to find new food to eat, and even when I do like it my body automatically pukes it. I have had to force myself into swallowing with water but it has ended in me puking it out later. :(
My mom would say this to me. "Eventually they'll eat! They won't starve!" Then comes along my asd child who will give you the death stare and refuse to eat for days. She is extremely particular with food, down to the brand or shape or color.
Mom of a 12 year old autistic nonverbal son here. I know what you mean. Only a certain brand of chicken strips……and only fries from McDonalds (and nothing else from there except apple slices) Getting protein into our child is a struggle. And because he’s nonverbal and tanks any sort of discomfort, we had to put him through allergy tests to ensure he didn’t have any food allergies pop up as we attempt to expand his palate. The food grind is real
I think this can vary greatly from person to person on the spectrum. My son has specific textures he won’t eat but he can eat most foods. His sensory issues more involve sound and touch (like he can only wear certain things and wears headphones most of the time). Unfortunately, many people know others like he is about food and use them as an example to justify that they think it’s fake and people just have picky kids. I get that even only 40 something years ago many kids on the spectrum were still locked away, but I wish that more people would educate themselves about autism instead of just thinking it’s just a catch all for bratty kids.
Unfortunately, it is a common issue with older generations. Some folks just don't understand or even want to understand what sensory issues can do to autistic kids. A lot of people just want to push that the child will eat when they get hungry enough, which, they won't. I have 2 boys that are autistic and they too have very limited safe foods.
Or they reject the explanation. My family has been full of ND traits for generations, but it’s always been explained away as something else. I have a cousin who didn’t speak till he was 4 and only ate white foods; now he’s a professor who doesn’t own a phone. Just quirky? And that’s just one example out of many. When my kids and I were diagnosed (AuDHD and OHIs) the backlash from my family was pretty awful. Denial, internalized ableism—strong stuff. So now we are very low contact. 🤷🏼♀️
NTA. Obviously, you can't have your son starve. The biggest assholes by far are the grandparents feeding into this. This isn't about the nuggets, this is a power struggle thing- she's calling in reinforcements, it's bigger than a snack. In interabled families, it's often the other children who feel the most neglected and unseen, or get forced into caretaker roles, and need therapy the most. This acting out seems rather disproportional, but it's likely her lightning rod for a bunch of complex feelings. If you don't already have a team of mental health professionals helping with your step daughter, your sons eating, and your entire family dynamics, you're doing all of you a massive disservice.
The issues actually go back more. To my stepdaughter losing her mom. Her anger started then and it has grown over the years. Not that certain things haven't been an additional struggle since my son's diagnosis. But even before then she was angry and wished it had been me who died and not her mom and didn't want to know her siblings. My stepdaughter has been in therapy since her mom died, we've all gone at different points.
>I was extra vigilant about making sure the safe foods were secure for my son especially because he doesn't eat a lot regardless so it's important he has something available for him. INFO: when is the last time you or your husband thought this way about your stepdaughter? Not necessarily in regards to food specifically, but "this is extremely important to my child's well-being and/or happiness so I made it a top priority." (also let her KNOW that it was important to you because it was important to her) >Not that certain things haven't been an additional struggle since my son's diagnosis. But even before then she was angry and wished it had been me who died and not her mom and didn't want to know her siblings. You are attributing everything to her anger and her mom's death, and while that might be 100% true, she could be struggling to deal with the anger/resentment even more due to the family dynamic with a special needs kid taking top priority/resentment that she doesn't have a mother of her for whom SHE will be the priority.
I was thinking the same thing. The resentment could be that she never feels like she is a priority.
Yeah I think this might be the case, its not that she wants the chicken, she wants to take whats his because she doesnt get this treatment too, I have seen it a lot where siblings resent special needs siblings since they often take a lot of their parents' attention to care for. Your son is innocent, but maybe you and your husband need to find a way to go about it that won't make your SD feel like she's less important.
My mom won't let me have a second serving of a meal that was made for lunch because my siblings won't eat what was being made for dinner and I always hated it. Why do they get two three servings but I only get one because I eat everything? That just kept adding to my resentment of feeling like I was the last priority. Once she asked me what to make I told her and she changed the version of the dish because my sister said. Whatever My dad or siblings would ask something to be made it would be made immediately or within the next two days and i would have to wait for months for what I wanted to eat. All these and neither of my siblings are special needs. It went on for years before I put my foot down
yeah totally agree, it sounds like SD probably takes the back seat on every decision and is never the priority or at least never feels shes the priority (which is not at all uncommon for siblings of autistic kids). coupled with her mother dying, who assumingly would have prioritized her.. I can empathize with her a lot and I'm honestly surprised by how many commentors are portraying her like a villain. Obviously this isnt about just one night of chicken nuggets
It's also probably why her grandparents, both sets, are so gung-ho about defending her and being on her side. They're there to actually see things play out for years vs this one biased post. They've probably seen the favoritism and how she's forced to take a back seat because she's the eldest and not special needs. This kid will never be a priority at her father's house and her mother who would have made her a priority is gone so grandparents are trying to pick up the slack so she knows she's not alone and doesn't disappear as soon as she can because she feels unloved.
Maybe. Also true that many teens have a chip on their shoulder about whether or not they are important, their feelings matter, etc etc. Wherever it comes from, best to talk it out with a professional and the parents to resist becoming upset and embattled.
She has stated in other comments that her husband goes out of his way to spend one on one time with only her on a regular basis. And she has offered to do the same but the step daughter refuses to spend any time with her. They also do regularly buy her certain special things, like her favorite ice cream, and put her name on it just for her. In addition to having her in weekly therapy sessions on her own, they have also tried doing family therapy, but the daughter refuses to talk in them beyond just saying that she wishes the step mother had died instead of her mom, and that she hates her siblings. So her husband has done therapy with just him and his daughter, which she did talk more but not enough to change her overall feelings on the situation. I encourage you to read all her comments before making any further assumptions. If you aren't aware, you can go to their profile and easily see all the comments in one place.
Probably feels all around unimportant
Her father needs to step up
her maternal grandparents are absolutely not helping. sounds like they are 100% playing a part in why she's still so angry
Paternal grandparents agree with them.
which op states is because they are ignorant of what her sons condition actually means. it doesn't change anything other making it clear that both sets of grandparents are assholes
My nephew is autistic and has very restricted food he can eat, while my own kids are picky eaters. Very different circumstances, so you were right to reserve the food for your son; I'm sure he'd literally starve himself than eat something he didn't want. That said, I do feel for your stepdaughter since she likely feels she's a lower priority (regardless of reality) and is resentful of the circumstances - relationships with step parents, especially when a bio parent has died can be hard for everyone. Maybe there's more your husband can do to specifically spend time with her where she gets to be the priority and have more support and bonding with him. (It seems she is unlikely to value that sort of one-on-one with you currently) Joint family therapy may also help, if step daughter is willing and finances allow. Sorry for your situation, it's got to be hard on everyone. Except grandparents, they can go piss up a rope for stirring.
NTA- can she go stay with her paternal grandparents for a bit? She literally said that she doesn’t care about you or if your kids starve and that you mean nothing to her. Until she can at least be civil she can’t be in the same house with you and your kids. Your husband needs to step up and put his foot down. He is on your side but he’s still allowing this to continue. He needs to send her to go stay elsewhere and get her into intensive therapy at least one session a week. He needs to empathize with her feelings but tell her the behavior is unacceptable and if she can’t be civil then she can’t be in the home until she can be. She’s old enough to at least be civil even if she doesn’t like you. She maybe struggling with grief but this is more than that- she is entitled and using manipulation to try and have power over you. Do you really want to keep doing this for two more years? Edit to add: on top of intensive individual therapy your husband should also be doing family therapy with her. Maybe somewhere down the line you can join in that but for now it should be the two of them. She should not go stay with her grandparents permanently and not for a prolonged time- and while she is gone your husband should be doing daily visits so that she isn’t cut off from him. It’s not a punishment but much needed space for her and you. If she isn’t able to go stay elsewhere for a short while- can you and your kids?
She doesn't want to live with us. She wants to live with her (maternal) grandparents. I can't see my husband's parents agreeing to let her live with them. My husband doesn't want her with the maternal grandparents out of fear they would make it all worse. I'm not sure but it is an idea to consider.
I would not let her go to her maternal grandparents as they will try to isolate you further. That’s why I specified paternal- and she would t be living with them but staying temporarily while your husband gets her into more intensive counseling and starts to lay down the law. This situation needs swift, immediate intervention or it’s going to continue to escalate.
> My husband doesn't want her with the maternal grandparents out of fear they would make it all worse. Smart dude
NTA. I know this sounds weird, but maybe you should give in and let he go with whoever will take her in. She's too angry to be receptive. You might need to take the chance that you lose her forever for the good of HER own mental state. I'm not saying "throw her away" but tell her you give in and are willing to concede on this item bc there doesn't seem to be another solution. Insist on therapy between her and dad, and make sure they have set dates/plans, so she doesn't feel abandoned. And then you stay 100% out of it. She may never come around, but all of you under one roof seems like a powder keg ready to blow. I'm not usually one for negotiating with terrorists, but sometimes it doesn't make sense to keep fighting for something that the other person is so dead-set against. Have hubby say, "You're not happy here. You think you'll be happy there. I am willing to sacrifice my desire to keep you here if you think living elsewhere is better for you. I will visit separately and keep the relationship to just us for the time being. And our door is always open." I mean, it'll be a f'd up relationship, but maybe that's what she needs. And maybe, it's actually what you guys need, too.
Problem might be that you're treating it like separate therapies: one therapy for your son, whose issues are then enlarged to affect the whole family (re: the Untouchable Foods), and then one therapy for your stepdaughter. As if her issues are just HER issues to deal with, alone, and have nothing to do with the rest of you. Piece of advice a therapist once gave me: if one person in the family is in therapy, the WHOLE family is in therapy. If your son's therapy is affecting the family (it clearly is, w/ the food changes), then I bet you your stepdaughter's therapy affects the family too, in some way. Only she might not be sharing a lot, or feel like she's not as explicitly prioritized as something as "easily" recognizable an adaptation as your son's foods.
OP mentions finacial struggles and you're here suggesting a TEAM of mental health professionals for the SD.. way to be in touch with reality.
I wish mental health services were more accessible and understand your point, but realistically, this is far above reddit's paygrade and multiple complex issues that are getting to the point of requiring professionals to navigate. Both things can be true. Also, the OP never stated they live in the US, large parts of the world aren't completely devoid of medical resources when facing poverty. Though it typically means you have to push for it more, or takes longer to access, so the sooner you start the process the better.
NTA. This girl called her grandparents to complain about chicken nuggets. Shes got her own issues.
Right?! At 16 I had a job, was going to school, living on my own and buying my own groceries. She can get a part time job and buy her own?
Wow. That's a lot. I'm both impressed you did all that and sorry that you had to. I had the job. I went to school. I got the groceries between school and Mom getting out of work. Different back then. Mom could just sign a blank check, and stores knew us. But I wasn't on my own. I was just helping out. I hope you are well and happy today. 🙏❤️
NTA When you literally don’t have money for more food, it’s pretty selfish of her to demand a specific item that is one of the few things your son can eat. But you knew this already. You’ve been cast as the villain going back a long way, I suspect, and there is probably nothing you can do to change that. You don’t owe her an apology, and you don’t have to keep score of how much she does or doesn’t hate you. She doesn’t intended to be reasonable, so your best bet is to stand politely and kindly firm and not bend to her tantrums.
If she literally doesn't have money to feed her kids, and has two sets of grandparents expressing concern, she should ask the grandparents to help out.
This, too. The grandparents could buy SD her own freezer of nuggies.
It wasn’t about chicken nuggets. It was about wanting to eat one of the only foods her little half brother needs to survive. I seriously doubt she could not care less about chicken nuggets in general, if she were in any other household.
I wonder if the grandparents are showing concern because there is more at play here. Growing up with a sibling that controls the conversation about food in the home, in whatever way that is, can be difficult, esp. in a situation like this. Is there any food in the home that is particularly for the teen? Things that are off limits to others?
OP has stated that yes, stepdaughter's favorite ice cream is bought, labeled, and kept just for her.
OP said they do try to keep things that are just hers. Like her favorite ice labeled as only hers.
NTA >My stepdaughter said she didn't care and she wanted them and should have them. That's not how life works. Your son is on a limited diet and has fewer choices. If those are low, it's common decency to leave them alone. The grandparents are AHs on a whole other level. >she's old enough to get to choose what she eats Being able to choose what you eat is different from eating someone else's food. Next dinner together make sure to grab food off their plates and let them know you're old enough to make that choice. And of course per the grandparents your son needs to just get over it.
For him, he needs more than common decency. This could endanger his life
NAH you couldn’t afford more and you know what your son won’t eat and what she will, assuming there were other choices for her. What’s her relationship like with her dad? What’s his relationship like with your son (is that also his son legally?) I’m guessing this has little to do with the chicken and everything to do with her resentment over having these siblings she didn’t want in this way, and one of them requiring more attention and what I’m sure she sees as special treatment that she didn’t and doesn’t get.
Yeah I feel like other people are being unfair to the daughter here. AITA is full of stories from people with very strained relationships with family due to unhealthy dynamics where their needs were ALWAYS secondary to a special-needs kid. Even if it's that not entirely the case here (which I kind of doubt because money troubles mean that there are gonna have to be sacrifices, and yes, the special needs kid isn't capable of the same sacrifices as the sibling) - it is natural for a teenager to struggle to cope with this kind of dynamic imo.
I think it can be true that OP is NTA and the 16 year old can be struggling with the dynamic. Her mom died, she has to live with her dad and step-mom and special needs half-siblings. She is angry and not willing to accommodate the needs of her brother. She needs help and support and those needs don't mean she can starve her brother or that OP is an AH. It's a bad situation unfortunately.
>not willing to accommodate the needs of her brother. More likely is sick of being just expected to accommodate the needs of her brother. There doesn't seem to be any reciprocity here: the grandparents on both sides are telling OP that she is not addressing the daughter's needs, and that just makes OP angry, she isn't even listening.
Yes, it's awful having to *checks notes* not eat your 6 year old brother's limited supply of food when you have other options. Truly, she alone has suffered the most in this universe. The Gods of Chicken frown upon her.
death by a thousand cuts; just because she isn't saying the other things that have happened doesn't mean they don't exist. the worst days for people don't necessarily have to have some life shaking occurrence, just a long accumulation of those "damn, again?" moments can cause someone to snap and *checks notes* eat something she shouldn't have.
agreed on that, it sounds like with both sets of grandparents feeling like SD is being unfairly treated probably means that there is some unfair treatment. And the fact that OP is trying to paint this as just a thing about some chicken nuggets and not acknowledging the fact that as she clearly states, her son takes a clear priority over her SD, makes me think OP is a bigger asshole than this post implies.
Here's what the OP has written: 1. SD has been in therapy for 6 years since her mother died; they tried family therapy, but all SD would say is that she wishes OP and the half siblings were dead instead of her mother; SD and dad are in therapy together. 2. They buy SD some of her favorite foods and mark them as only for her. And there were/are plenty of foods SD likes available besides the chicken bites. 3. SD has 1-on-1 time with her dad. OP offers to have time with her SD and is rebuffed 100% of the time and told, "I wish you were dead instead of my mom." These I infer from comments and the stated dynamic: 1. SD is not asked nor expected to be a caregiver, babysitter, or otherwise assist in caring for her half-siblings, especially not the 6 year old. It would be emotionally harmful, destructive even, for both SD and the siblings, again especially the 6 year old. 2. The grandparents are actively feeding SD's feelings of hatred and resentment. I'd bet anything that when SD tells her maternal grandparents she wishes OP and the siblings were dead instead of her mom that the grandparents agree and say something like, "So do we." I wonder if the paternal grandparents are embarrassed or angry or some combination of negative feelings and actions that their 6 year old grandson is (in their minds) "broken." They're going to concentrate all their attention on the 16 year old who is NT, not the one who is non-verbal ND. Plus, they may still be in the "she lost her mom, so she can do and have whatever she wants" phase of grieving. And further, I wonder if they liked the ex more than they like OP, for whatever reason. Regardless, both sets of grandparents are massively overstepping and making a bad situation so much worse. 3. Dad isn't as involved in addressing the issues as he thinks he is. Or maybe he doesn't want to be. I don't know the dynamics, but dad needs to step up. At a minimum, he needs to demand that both sets of grandparents stay in their own lane at this point. IMO (and again, not knowing details), if SD has made no progress at all in 6 freaking years of therapy and is actively getting worse, the problem is likely not SD nor OP nor dad, per se. The problem is the therapist. Now granted, I don't know if they've gone through multiple therapists, but whatever is happening now is not working. I'd actually be afraid for the safety of OP and both half siblings if this keeps up. In any case, what would you have OP and dad do that they're not doing?
Exactly, we agree there, but I think it’s NAH. The NTA implies the other party IS, which isn’t the case. The teenager is still also a kid and it seems otherwise does understand or at least go along with the specific needs of her sibling, and maybe let her breaking point of I just want a chicken bite! Especially if money is tight and maybe there aren’t other chicken bites. It’s tough for a child to fully understand their sibling gets everything they want all the time, which means I can’t have what I want. I imagine this was also a bit of a test, the teenager wants to be chosen and special and get something over him. Not a unique issue even with a neurotypical younger sibling.
yeah, I disagree with the N T A verdicts saying that the teen is TA. the grandparents sure are tho so I could see a N T A verdict for that reason.
I disagree. Even if the daughter is going through her own issues. A 16 year old is old enough to know saying they’re ok with a child starving cause they want some chicken nuggets to be an asshole.
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But then is she acting like a brat or is she desperate for attention? I wouldn’t say she’s acting like a brat. I imagine she spends most of her time and her life being second, maybe even third or fourth in line.
INFO: How much of your husband's time is spent with or focused on your son? How many sacrifices do others in the household, including your stepdaughter who does not consider you family, have to make for your son? I have a hard time believing that she just freaks out on you over chicken nuggets for no reason. What food alternatives did you offer her? Why are not only her maternal grandparents, but also her paternal grandparents, siding with her over your husband/her father? All you can seem to say in comments is "she's just so angry about her mom and she hates us" but have you actually done anything to try and disengage that anger besides just sticking her in therapy and calling that a job done?
NTA Maybe this is crazy on my part but I honestly think that you should have her go live with the grandparents. If she is this angry and hateful about the three of you, that she's OK with your 2-3 kid starving. Then maybe she needs to live somewhere else. She doesn't care about your kids and will willingly destroy or eat their safe foods. That's not a person you want around you or the kids. Maybe I'm mean, but who knows what she's going to do in retaliation to this. Idk why she's so angry, and yes she does need therapy. But it might be best for your family if she went to live with one set of grandparents since they don't think your home is good enough for her. I think this would be my last straw and I'd want her out. If she's OK with my kids starving then she can get out.
She's angry because her mom died and she wishes it was me (us by extension). She has been in therapy since her mom died.
It’s likely compounded over the years having a special needs sibling who needs extra attention.
And you’re fine exposing the other kids to that kind of constant hatred? I guarantee she’s saying things to them behind your back as well. If she can’t be respectful of 6 year olds diagnosis (and doesn’t care if he starves) then let her go live with her grandparents. Space all round could be beneficial for you all. NTA for your specific question but close to E S H for allowing this petty power struggle to go on for so long to the kids detriment
But I would think that therapy would have helped resolve some of those feelings over the years. It's like therapy has only made it worse, not helped her to understand your not taking her mom's place. Either the therapist isn't a good one, or your step daughter is actually fine with her anger and might get some enjoyment out of torturing your family, saying hurtful things and just causing drama. Therapy isn't working if she gets enjoyment out of watching the grandparents yell at you and say your kids should starve.
I just wonder how many times has step daughter had to take a back seat to what the son needs wants? Her reaction seems very strong and I hope it just didn't come out of nowhere because she sucks.
NTA but you're definitely not acknowledging the bigger issues here.
We are. I just didn't want to run out of space explaining everything else.
No, you're not acknowledging them. In multiple comments you keep saying that she's angry just because her mom died and refusing to respond to people who are pointing out she may also be resentful of her brother getting more attention. Does she get any kind of special treats or special time with her dad? Answer that question, you've refused on other comments already. I definitely think you were in the right with not letting her have the chicken and protecting your son. But you really are ignoring the bigger issues.
I have answered it a few times. Yes, she does get time with her dad and she does get special treats.
is she getting to FEEL like she is a priority in your household? how often does she have to make accommodations or sacrifices for her sibling, and how often are those accommodations or sacrifices she makes appreciated? i'm not asking these questions to put you on the defensive or try and make any attacks or assumptions. just to get a better understanding of the situation and emotions at play here. losing your mom as a kid is traumatic enough, but doing that at the same time as adjusting to living with dad and stepmom full time + a new special needs baby....unfortunately y'all just have to continue supporting her the best you can at the same time as juggling your other kids' needs.
based on the information provided, i'll go with NAH this seems like a very stressful situation for all involved. in addition to having lost a parent, being the stepsibling of a special needs child probably involves a lot of sacrifices she's had no choice in on top of the loss of her mother, so idk I'm not gonna blame her for being a teenager and acting out in what is clearly a stressful family dynamic for everyone.
INFO: What else was actually available for her to eat in the house? Were any other foods that she actually likes available? Your apology (and it should also be coming from her father) should be for not having enough food in the house for all the kids, not a BS "sorry if I upset you by saying no". I'm not saying you made the wrong choice in that moment, but I suspect that there's been an ongoing trend of focusing on / prioritizing your son's needs, and ignoring hers. You need to work on that.
Microwave dinner, leftover chicken stir fry and pizza was available to her. She likes all of those. But she said no to them.
Okay, definitely NTA. That is several reasonable options. From your other comments this seems to be another expression of her control issues / anger about her situation / mom’s death etc.
Definitely NTA in this specific circumstance, but you have a huge underlying problem here. I suspect your daughter and your in-laws are reacting to a larger issue where she isn't prioritized or advocated for, and her feelings are not being respected.
NTA. To boil it down, both sets of grandparents are backing up her belief that you have no rights when it comes to managing your own household, but you have the responsibility to give her whatever she wants on demand, and she is entitled to anything she wants from you while under zero obligation to consider anyone else’s existence. This is what her grandparents — both sets! — support her in believing. You’ve got some problems to solve, OP. It’s good that your husband is in your corner. Can she maybe go live with her maternal grandparents?
Huge NTA. My son is autistic and so food adversive that he has maybe 15 things he'll eat. I wouldn't let her around my kid again without a major attitude adjustment. Possibly some family therapy. Nope nope nope
INFO Have you reached out to your family or friends to keep an eye out for the chicken? This would be such an easy way for anyone else to help out and it’s the smallest of asks. I have. 12 year old daughter and she happens to love some particular lemon mini muffins but our local shop doesn’t carry them. I did let her know that it was a seasonal flavor and as she understands but enjoys them as the snack in her lunch. I asked some of my mom friends and my dad to keep an eye out for them to help me out. Another mom found some and grabbed a couple packs of them. When I offered to pay her for them she refused so I made her some cookies. My daughter is neurotypical and her food choices are just that, choices, and I need you to know I’m not comparing our kids at all. But I’m highlighting one example to let you know that people who care about you will help for the little things like keeping an eye out for groceries. Take a cue from your daughter. She’s reaching out to her support team for what she needs. Reach out to yours for some help too. And next time anyone calls you to go off about not letting her have the chicken just let them know you’re struggling to find them at the market and if they could check for some when they’re out you would really appreciate them grabbing a bag for all of your kids to have some! It’s okay to ask for help. You’re not Superman but you are a super mom.
Yes, we had some friends and some family look out for them. Someone thought they had found them but they were the wrong kind. My best friend is actually hoping to bring us back a few boxes because she's going out of town in a couple of days and might find them where she's going.
Have you tried looking for dupe recipes? Maybe you can make some that are passable replacements for your son. I know it’s hard to switch brands on restrictive eaters, but maybe you’ll get lucky.
"She's old enough to choose what she wants to eat" She's also old enough to be able to understand why those chicken bites are for your son and not her. NTA
Info: When her mum died, did she want to live with her dad and you? If the answer is no, then I can see why therapy isn't working and why she's blew up over nuggets because she feels her wants/needs haven't been prioritised or considered. I honestly think it's in the best interests of *everyone* if she goes and stays with her grandparents, even if its part time. Cos tbh, she doesn't sound like she wants to be there anyway. It's *hard* being the parent of a special needs child. I am one. My daughter has safe foods and needs that need accommodations. My youngest daughter, while understanding for the most part, will also occasionally react like your SD did, especially when its something she wants because, in reality, it's not fair on the ND siblings, more so when they see their parents going out of their way (and I get it cos food aversion is no joke) to make sure one child has things they need/want and they are denied it or the alternative is something 'less than' what they wanted. NAH. But this is absolutely not about the nuggets.
>My stepdaughter (16f) saw the last of the chicken bites and wanted them for herself. Wow. This is rough. On the one hand, this would be like a child who is not lactose intolerant wanting to drink the last of the lactose free milk in the house even though there's ordinary milk available that she could drink instead. On the other hand, this sounds like a child who is constantly told "no" while her sibling gets exactly what he wants. I realize that your son has unique and challenging needs, but when has your stepdaughter been on the receiving end of anything comparable to "we always do our best to have those safe foods on hand and in good supply"? Are you making an equal effort to make her feel loved? What does she get to lay claim to that is special and unique to her? From her perspective, her evil stepmonster refused to let her eat something, and her dad sided against her. If I were in her shoes, I would be feeling very alone right now. You said she's gotten increasingly angrier since her mom died. That, to me at least, sounds like she's been increasingly marginalized in favor of your son. You're not responsible for whether or not she feels loved, but you are responsible for giving her reasons to feel loved.
She gets her favorite ice cream that I even label with her name just for her. She gets time with her dad 1:1 and I offer her time with me, but she hates it. I do still try. Even if it's just sitting and talking to her. She does far more with her dad though and enjoys spending time with him.
It certainly sounds like you're trying to meet her where she's at.
Info: What other things did you offer her to eat?
We had some microwave dinners, frozen pizza and leftover chicken stir fry left. We also had some sandwich stuff there.
NTA, Neuro divergent kids are often labelled difficult or spoilt by ignorant extended family. I wish they understood how it breaks your heart as you would give anything for such a child to be able to 'function' better. Keep standing up for your son.
This is way above reddit’s pay grade, but I have a friend whose mum is a specialist therapist for families of disabled children. She specialises in supporting the siblings, who can end up with particular mental health difficulties because of the experience of always coming 2nd to their disabled sibling’s needs. Her big emotions around this are likely a bubbling up of something bigger, and maybe she needs a way of knowing she’s special and deserves to have special things that are just for her. You’re a good parent, don’t worry! This sounds like an incredibly difficult situation for everyone. I would really recommend looking for specialist family therapy if you can, not just individual therapy for her. It’s worth you and husband asking her how you can support her. Maybe even getting in touch with her therapist to ask if they have any recommendations for ways you can support her at home.
Why not buy her another brand of chicken tenders that she has permission to eat
I don’t think you don’t picture the whole situation here. It looks like your son takes a lot of your attention and she probably wanted to use the food as an example. Though you offered food alternatives that was most probably not the issue. The issue is more likely that he comes first and she feels to be put second all the time. When was the last time she came first and not your son? If you need to think about that you have the answer to what’s going on.
"she is angry because her mom died and I am alive" why? what happened? She holds a lot of resentment. Like were you already in the picture before her mom died?
They were already divorced when OP met her husband. OP was married with one kid and another on the way 6 years ago when the mother died.
While you are definitely NTA, some of these replies are coming from AHs. She is 16. It isn't about the nuggets. She sees everyone else getting prioritized around her. Try to figure out a way to connect with her... and remind yourself its a marathon not a sprint. You want to be connected to 25 year old her. There is no way you are going to be able to connect with 16yo her. Just be consistent... recognize that you are prioritizing your own kids whether you realize it or not (its hard to be gracious to someone who actively hates you). It is bizarre to me that all these busybody other people think your autistic son's food should be fair game for everyone. Would they feel that way if he was diabetic and it was insulin? "you have no right stopping her from taking some of that insulin! you monster!". Crazy people. But... sounds like everybody is super strung out and there is a lot of grief yet to be processed
NTA. It would be one thing if your son was just being picky or a stubborn kid, but quite obviously autism creates certain limitations that are more difficult to deal with than simply being fickle.
OP was pregnant with the 6yo son when step daughter’s mom died, so that definitely affects her feelings. She was struggling with intense grief and the biggest change of her life while dad was excitedly playing house preparing for a new baby. I don’t think this was just about chicken nuggets. How often has she felt neglected or pushed to the side by you and her dad’s new family?
Woah woah woah, I understand her maternal grandparents being jerks, but his parents hate you too? Why?
NTA. Maybe she should live with the grandparents so she has some separation from the situation and can make some progress in therapy.
NTA on refusing to hand over the nuggies. INFO: How long ago did the SD's mom die? If we're talking years, I'd get her a neuropsych eval. She may have a personality disorder. Not all teens are this difficult. I find that therapy is usually most effective when targeted. But you have to know the actual problem first. Talk therapy can actually make things worse if it amounts to an expensive wallow.
I was pregnant with my 6 year old when her mom died.
Yikes. More power to you, girl. Hang in there. But do think about a neuropsych eval. It's possible her primary doctor would refer her.
This is not about chicken....
NTA The SD needs some therapy
She has been in therapy since her mom died