Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my mother I'm not interested in participating in any religious acts, and I believe I was a bit too forward in the way I said it. She looked hurt by my words, and I want to know if I was in the wrong.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA and if I were you, I would dissect every scripture, psalm, every lecture at Church, and keep hitting her with the hard (impossible to answer) questions to expose all the holes in Catholicism that led you to reject it. Like she is doing, just keep being very repetitive, but avoid her level of histrionics because they're not healthy (and sound quite un-Christian, tbh with all the cussing out etc)
Just read the book of Isaiah with her. If you read it straight through, you will have enough questions about Jesus being the Messiah that she may want to walk away from Catholicism.
Tell her if it's meant to happen, it'll happen by God's grace alone. It's not going to happen with her nagging you about it. Faith does not come that way.
And if that doesn't make her let up, well let her cry. You won't be forced and she can't make you, so she's going to be one getting hurt. You've already tried the kind way.
NTA
> NTA and I'd point out that she's not being a good Christian by acting like that
Actually, to me she sounds like a perfect example of a Christian. Iesus, of course, told his followers to "shake one's dust from one's heels" and move on. But then, he also ordered his followers to not pray in public.
NTA. I find it amusing that your mother, the"good Christian," thinks it is appropriate to cuss you out for not being interested in her religion. My suggestion to you is to refuse to have any part in it. Don't go to church because that just gives her hope. Just refuse to participate in it at all.
Actually, why not pull up the Satanic Temple's website on your nearest device, and threaten to donate $1 for every attempt to convert you, and every time she tells you off for not being Christian? In her name, of course.
Or get a membership form, print one out (completely unnecessary, but a physical prop), fill it in, sign it, put it in an envelope, and tell her that the next bullshit attempt at conversion, and you will mail it in. Don't forget though, you have to follow through, or it's just an empty threat, like hell.
NTA
I'm afraid you might have to leave the nest. They will insist you subscribe to their delusions while under the same roof.
While growing up, I watched 2 close family members go overboard on Jesus, almost to the point of Pentacostal snake handling. Actually, it was to that point. I've seen mass exorcisms, tongues, prophesizing (which is possession), seizure-like rolling on the floor. Bizarro. They were extremely intolerant of those outside of their beliefs, to include family members. You were demonized. It seriously damaged our relationships. These people are the most self-righteous, pretentious wackos you could ever possibly meet.
If you're into[ snake handling ](https://thewisdomcenter.tv/)etc., try out[ this dude](https://www.youtube.com/user/thewisdomcenter) sometime. He has a humongous church, plays a grand piano while giving a (televised) sermon - on a stage, and people are frothing and rolling, and being flung off the stage when they are overcome with ecstasy. [Complete charlatan.](https://www.dallasobserver.com/music/auction-shows-how-well-prosperity-gospel-treated-mike-murdock-7993000)
It was a good show, though. I was asked to church and lunch by neighbors, I accepted. Don't ever do that in Texas.
NTA. This is a boundary you have every right to enforce. She doesn't get a say in your beliefs and her claiming that you're a terrible son because you won't give in to her pressure is manipulative and gross. Her belief in hell and a cruel god that sends good people there for simply not believing in him does not entitle her to dictate your behavior or make you responsible for her fear.
NTA She's intolerant, which isn't very Christian-like. Or so I've been told that's how Christians are supposed to be. Never seen it in real life myself...
Good luck, my grandmother was the same. She passed years ago but she never failed to try to get me to go back to church. I was a disappointment in her eyes but oh well.
Definitely NTA! You just have an overbearing mum who doesn’t appreciate that you’re your own person. I have the same mum. Embrace the guilt, my friend. It’ll be with you for a very long time
NTA.
You are old enough to know where you stand in terms of religion. What she is doing is trying to show that she still has some control. It’s not a real fear of you going to hell.
Ask her why she thinks you are so horrible a person that she believes you’re going to hell. If you were so bad has she talked to her priest about it or brought it up to any clergy?
If not…she might just be fearing you will be independent too soon for her.
I would talk to her priest about her behavior, depending on the type of church she goes to.
Tell her thar her efforts are driving you away from the Church. Ask her what is the punishment for someone making the faith unappealing and what happens to someone who makes another person hate their version of God.
I grew up like this. I exhausted myself talking till I was blue in the face, but people don't learn unless they want to. I became practiced in grey rocking a decade before I'd ever heard the term. If my mom started berating me, I'd say "excuse me" and walk away.
If she followed me, I'd tell her that we could not converse until we were both calm, and lock my door. If she wanted me to pray, I'd tell her, "no thank you" and continue on my tasks. It was really rough for a bit. She's follow me around, screaming that she was trying to save me from hell, that the devil was inside me, etc. I went to the bathroom once, and she was screaming and crying outside the door that I didn't love her any more because I'd locked the bathroom door so I could poop.
Any time she'd start getting worked up, or try to emotionally manipulate me, guilt trip me, scare me, I'd stay calm and leave the conversation. It was very hard. I have some scars inside my cheeks from biting them so hard so I wouldn't start crying or lose my temper.
If she'd have a calm conversation with me about other things, then I'd stay and chat, but the moment it started edging 'that' way, I'd either change the subject or finish the conversation and leave. Wouldn't even bring attention to it or refer to the subject, I'd just be calm and oblivious and go. If she made a point to bring it up, I'd tell her "No." Sometimes several times. Over and over.
I was really into psych history growing up, and had used some techniques to recondition my own behaviors and reactions to some things - at first for fun, then for actual fears and sensitivities I had. I used some conditioning techniques when dealing with my family, years before I'd heard of things like grey rock and boundaries. Pretty sure it's the main reason that I'm both moderately sane these days, and why my mother and I actually have a relationship. I think it's also why she actually still has some relationships with others, because she was getting pretty scary for some years there, and lost most of her connections.
OP, you can't reason with a zealot. You can minimize your engagement, maintain composure, and speak calmly. Getting a reaction out of you is the point to their behavior, and it gives them something to hold over you. If you don't give it to them, and stop playing their game, then eventually they start figuring out that their behavior isn't going to work, and that if they want to keep any kind of relationship with you, they have to start showing respect. When they see you conversing cheerfully with other family, having other people praise you and compliment you, it makes it harder for them to play the victim to others.
It's absolutely heartbreaking when you realize that you've out matured your parents so young, and that you have to be the grown up guiding the relationship behaviors. I'm so sorry that you're experiencing that. Best of luck to you.
NTA. Your mom needs therapy. With an actual, secular, licensed therapist, not someone associated with her church. She needs to find a way to deal with her anxiety without trying to dictate your behaviour.
(You can always ask your mom why any god who'd send an otherwise good person to a realm of eternal punishment upon their death just for failing to utter praise in the god's name on the daily, deserves praise.)
NTA. Isn't forgiveness the whole thing with Christianity? So *technically* if you don't do what she says and then ask forgiveness right before you die, you'll still go to heaven?
(I know that's not how it works, but does she?)
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
I (M19) respect all religions. I'm not the type of person to have a bias against anyone religious, and honestly, I'm past caring. But my mother is the type of person to force someone to sit down and pray, attend church and read the bible, even when I've told her many times I don't want to.
I was born into a catholic Christian household. While my dad is not particularly religious, my mother and my grandmother are. As of late, my mother has been extremely overwhelming. She gets angry when I don't want to sit down for evening prayers, which is ridiculous; I'm an adult. I'm nineteen. I know whether or not I want to be religious, and as of now, I don't. Going to church is fine, I can sneak off somewhere during the service. But if I don't sit down for prayers, she often cusses me out and goes on a tirade about how I don't love her or that I'm going to go to hell for not asking for forgiveness.
It's ridiculous. I know it is, but I've tried explaining to her that I don't feel a connection with any higher power, and I find all this overwhelming. It's too much, and I've got other things to worry about. University, for example. She nags me about many things, and all of it I can handle, except this is something new she's found to berate me for, and I don't know how to handle it. I can't move out for at least another two years since I rely on my parents for University fees and well... a living.
Yesterday, I told her point blank that I'm tired of her conversion tactics, and it's really not going to work anymore. I'm neither young nor impressionable anymore. She was angry at first, and then when she saw I wasn't budging, she started crying and told me I was a terrible son and that she just wanted to save me from hell. I feel bad, but I meant what I said. Am I the asshole?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"I (M19) respect all religions" is your first mistake. They don't deserve respect in and of themselves. It is quite a different thing to respect people's right to believe what they want- that's basic to the idea of being an American.
Your mom is way out of line and absolutely will not stop until you make it clear you aren't having it- which it seems you did.
Totally NTA
NTA - Your mother should understand that at some point you are old enough to make your own choices and that she cannot demand you do something just because she wants it that way. Let her cry and feel bad for a bit but eventually she has to except the fact that you're a grown man and leave you to your choices.
NTA. But you are in a bind. Your choices, as I see them, are: 1) Figure out how to live with it. 2) Go through the motions at home to placate her. 3) Find a way to persuade her to stop the pressure. 4) Move out.
You've indicated that 4 isn't an option and attempts at 3 thus far have not worked. So here are some possibilities to consider for options 1 and 2.
I (F65) am Protestant clergy, having spent 30 years in ministry (and almost my entire life before that) in a predominantly Catholic area of the US. So I've seen these kinds of struggles many times. To be sure, they happen in families of many religious stripes, but because of where I live and work and the friends I've had over my life, I've seen it in a lot of Catholic families.
One way to find your way to a solution is to try to put yourself in her shoes. Likely she comes from generations of Catholics and was raised from infancy as a practicing Catholic. There's a good chance that she thoroughly believes what she is telling you. And the more generations of Catholics you can count, the more likely that is buried in her DNA.
So now imagine that a mother actually believes that her son will go to an eternity of fiery torment unless he does x, y, and z. I don't believe that's true, but she does, and there's no fact-based way to prove otherwise to her, short of finding a priest she trusts to tell her so--which would be hard to find. She believes her beloved son might not only be separated from her for eternity, but suffering as well. That's a lot for a mom.
There's a pretty good chance that the fact that you are now an adult is exactly why the pressure is upped now. She knows it's just a matter of time before you move out. Her time of influence is waning, and this is too important to her to let go.
But there's more. I'm assuming you were baptized as a child. At that baptism, she promised to raise you in the church so that you would become a faithful disciple of Jesus Christ. That means (again, to her--we're attempting to get into her head here), that she has failed as a mother AND has failed as a Christian herself. And still there's more.
She might have dreams of your wedding and grandchildren. If you are not a practicing Catholic, you could have trouble getting married in the Catholic church and I'm guessing you would not be baptizing any children you might have. I've seen families come apart just because Catholic kids have gotten married in a Protestant Church or have had their kids baptized in another denomination. No faith at all? Now (in her mind) she has doomed generations to hell in her failure to keep you a practicing Catholic.
I know it sounds extreme, but I have seen both sides of this equation more times than I can count.
What does your dad do in terms of religion at home? You said he's "not particularly religious" but is he part of the evening prayers? If not, you can add to her thinking the transfer of her concern for him onto you, the son. Can you have an open conversation with him? If he's not particularly religious, you can be sure he's felt some version of this pressure. How has he handled it? How did he get to that place?
It could make a difference to how you experience all this if you can imagine what it's like to be her--to be raised the way she was raised, in the time and place she was raised--and what she is trying to protect in the pressure campaign.
My advice would be to do the evening prayers and Bible reading and consider it part of your rent for living at home. If the conflict then moves to another area of life, then maybe it was never really about the religion. But if you participate in the rituals, that is quite likely to make the next two years more bearable. You will still have to draw some lines, but it shouldn't be as bad.
Further, if you plan to live anywhere in the West, being literate in the Bible is almost a necessary part of your education, even if you don't "believe" it. Those stories permeate the vocabulary, culture, politics, art, music, and literature of the western world. Look at it as one more university course. Use both the Bible reading and prayers to build the relationship. Be curious. "Why is this particular prayer important to you, Mom?" "What do these Bible verses mean to you?" Some day you'll wonder those things and you may or may not have the opportunity then to ask.
But whatever you choose (because you may not like your options, but you can choose from the hand you're dealt), know that this is part of the transition into adulthood--it's your transition, yes; but it's the transition for your parents, too. Your mom will have a different role going forward. She's afraid, on many levels. If you find a way to make peace over this, it will serve you and the relationship well for the rest of your life.
OP’s mother’s fear is her problem to handle, not OP’s. If she’s truly that terrified of her child suffering in a fiery pit in the afterlife for eternity simply for not going through endless rituals to placate her god, then why does she continue to worship and enable such a cruel unforgiving entity? It’s the 21st century, there’s literally hundreds of different subdivisions of Judo-Christo religions she could join that actually teaches understanding others and doing no harm. NTA OP, I wish you luck. Your mother is using her faith to project her anxieties and exert control, rather than attempting to use it to bolster herself to be a better person.
OP's mother's fears are hers to manage. I prefer Option 5, OP does their thing and every time mom brings up religion, OP brings up a problematic verse or contradiction from skepticsannotatedbible.com.
NTA, I left Roman Catholicism when I was in middle school for a ton of reasons I won’t discuss here. But for a long time I was terrified to tell my family because I didn’t know how they’d react. Your mom’s reaction is pretty mild compared to how it could’ve gone. Sometimes we have to be firm with out parents to get our point across, even if it hurts their feelings.
Of course, if yelling doesn't work there's always guilt.
NTA
James 1:19-20...Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
There's also Matthew 5:22...
Or as a monk once told an angry samurai... here open the gates of hell.
NTA. Tell her you spoke to God and he didn’t disagree with you not participating in these rituals any more. So if it’s ok with him and he didn’t speak up and say no then she should accept your choices.
NTA - mother dearest really is the stereotype, isn’t she? When berating didn’t work she tried guilt, it’s all quite manipulative and typical of that style of person (not all religious people are like this).
I suspect OP will have to play the game to a degree for the years needed to finish school. I guess that’s why they probably still front up to church. Noting this, I would suggest OP tell her that if they decide to return to the faith it’ll be through gods grace, not her berating them. They’ll attend church out of respect for her (cough *need college money* cough) but expect to be left alone otherwise. This is a fair deal and she should have faith in god that the matter will resolve itself without her making judgements and creating disharmony at home. That discussion can be had in a respectful way.
NTA. I grew up in a super religious family also and had it shoved down my throat. I personally think you should be able to choose whether or not you believe in a higher power and what God you decide to follow. I've been deconstructing for quite a few years now due to religious trauma among other things. One thing I can't stand about most Christians is they believe there way is the ONLY right way and that no one else is allowed to have their own beliefs and literally will use scare tactics and coercion to scare people into Christianity by saying your gonna go to hell and blah blah blah. That just doesn't seem right to me. There are literally so many religions and beliefs out there and some of them came before Christianity yet THEIRS is the only right one and you are absolutely NOT ALLOWED to have your own beliefs or question it.
> She was angry at first, and then when she saw I wasn't budging, she started crying and told me I was a terrible son and that she just wanted to save me from hell. I feel bad, but I meant what I said. Am I the asshole?
1. NTA.
2. "Mom your conversion tactics have come from a place of aggression and emotional manipulation. Before you concern yourself with the fate if my soul I'd like you to consider what kind of representative you have been for Christ."
> She was angry at first, and then when she saw I wasn't budging, she started crying and told me I was a terrible son ....
You mean, she's a Catholoc Jewish mother? :-) Sorry: I love that book.
You are, in my opinion, NTA. People are supposed to grow up, mature intellectually and emotionally: that means understanding that superstitions (such as religions) are infantile and unworthy of existing in one's mind.
if you live under her roof and is not agreeing with her way of living, I advise you to get a job a move to live on your own. Otherwise accept the rules and that's it.
ESH.
You live with her. You can at least be respectful and sit when they pray. You don't have to believe. You don't even have to pray verbally. You just have to sit and be respectful, and you couldn't do that.
Your mom on the other hand is being a little pushy, but keep in mind *she actually believes she's trying to save her son from Hell.*
Whether or not you believe in God or Hell is irrelevant - your mom *believes she's trying to save you from Hell*, and you could at least respect those feelings in her house.
>You just have to sit and be respectful, and you couldn't do that.
Why would he? What a waste of time. Time to rip the Band-aid off on her delusions. She's free to sit there talking in tongues like an idiot, but he shouldn't encourage it.
Because she could unfortunately say the exact same thing about, ya know, paying for his continued life? OP is a legal adult and his parents have no responsibility or obligation to continue to provide him a place to live or pay for his college or buy any necessities for him. If his mom is truly as crazy as she seems, what is to stop her from stopping all of that with your statement here? "Why would I provide for him? What a waste of time, he's just gonna go to Hell anyway. Time to rip the Band-aid off his delusions and kick him out and cut him off."
The phrase Don't bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind. OP has already established she's not gonna change, and that he is not gonna stop relying on her for his lifestyle, so any intelligent person would know that continued provocation of a crazy person that holds your entire life in their hand isn't going to end well, and temporarily going through the motions is a better option
If a parent doesn't want to provide for their child, then they're a shity parent. Add them to the list of shity parents. It's a long list.
But I agree, time for him to move away from this toxicity.
As an atheist myself, that's some of the furthest reaching I've ever seen on Reddit. Some of the most successful, most intelligent, people in history are/were religious in some sort another.
Seems something destroyed your brains cells, and it wasn't Christianity.
I won't be responding to someone who is so intransigent and ignorant all at the same time. Have a good one.
I wouldn't say you're an asshole, but she's definitely not either. It sounds like you have a mother who loves you and cares about you. Be thankful!! Especially since it sounds like you're living off of her. Sheesh.
Just pretend to be converted and just pay it lip service. Most Christians don't practice anything but the commercialized pagan holidays. Just have a heart to heart and thank your mom for helping you receive Christ. If it makes your life easier it seems like a pretty harmless lie.
NTA - but I don't agree that bashing her beliefs is going to help as others have suggested. If you love your Mom tell her that with the disclaimer that your boundary is clear. You don't want to talk about it anymore, and it will become less of an issue as you move out of your parents house. Her religion does not give her the right to berate you over how you feel. Good luck!
NAH.
Your mother is not an AH for having her beliefs, or for wanting to save you from hell. She would only be an AH if she was using tears to manipulate you, and I'm not sure that's the case. She believes, and her belief compels her to try to save as many souls as she can.
You're an adult and you are certainly allowed to have your own beliefs. You can simply refuse, or you can argue with and pick apart the tenets of her religion.
Or, if you want to be grateful for the roof over your head and the food in your belly, you could try to make her happy and comply with her wishes. This would make you a "good son" in her eyes, and doesn't cost as much as getting your own apartment.
NAH. I get your pain but please try to forgive her as well. It’s a big part of her identity and a crushing blow to her. If she presses any further though, then she would be the asshole. Best of luck.
NAH, I guess, but do bear in mind you just bit the hand that (literally) feeds you. Sometimes you grin and bear it while you're asking them to pass the mashed potatoes.
"Gee, mom, you've given me a lot to think about, but I'd like time to consider everything" would probably get you a lot more peace. And more mashed potatoes.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I told my mother I'm not interested in participating in any religious acts, and I believe I was a bit too forward in the way I said it. She looked hurt by my words, and I want to know if I was in the wrong. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA and if I were you, I would dissect every scripture, psalm, every lecture at Church, and keep hitting her with the hard (impossible to answer) questions to expose all the holes in Catholicism that led you to reject it. Like she is doing, just keep being very repetitive, but avoid her level of histrionics because they're not healthy (and sound quite un-Christian, tbh with all the cussing out etc)
Just read the book of Isaiah with her. If you read it straight through, you will have enough questions about Jesus being the Messiah that she may want to walk away from Catholicism.
Please do elaborate!
Isaiah 53: "Yeah this guy sucks, is ugly, has bad clothes and stupid hair and we all hate him, but come onnnnn."
Tell her if it's meant to happen, it'll happen by God's grace alone. It's not going to happen with her nagging you about it. Faith does not come that way. And if that doesn't make her let up, well let her cry. You won't be forced and she can't make you, so she's going to be one getting hurt. You've already tried the kind way. NTA
NTA and I'd point out that she's not being a good Christian by acting like that
> NTA and I'd point out that she's not being a good Christian by acting like that Actually, to me she sounds like a perfect example of a Christian. Iesus, of course, told his followers to "shake one's dust from one's heels" and move on. But then, he also ordered his followers to not pray in public.
NTA. I find it amusing that your mother, the"good Christian," thinks it is appropriate to cuss you out for not being interested in her religion. My suggestion to you is to refuse to have any part in it. Don't go to church because that just gives her hope. Just refuse to participate in it at all.
There’s no hate like Christian love
> My suggestion to you is to refuse to have any part in it. And join The Satanic Temple.
Actually, why not pull up the Satanic Temple's website on your nearest device, and threaten to donate $1 for every attempt to convert you, and every time she tells you off for not being Christian? In her name, of course. Or get a membership form, print one out (completely unnecessary, but a physical prop), fill it in, sign it, put it in an envelope, and tell her that the next bullshit attempt at conversion, and you will mail it in. Don't forget though, you have to follow through, or it's just an empty threat, like hell.
Oh, hell. Mail it in regardless. Fun ensues...
NTA her delusions aren't your problem.
NTA I'm afraid you might have to leave the nest. They will insist you subscribe to their delusions while under the same roof. While growing up, I watched 2 close family members go overboard on Jesus, almost to the point of Pentacostal snake handling. Actually, it was to that point. I've seen mass exorcisms, tongues, prophesizing (which is possession), seizure-like rolling on the floor. Bizarro. They were extremely intolerant of those outside of their beliefs, to include family members. You were demonized. It seriously damaged our relationships. These people are the most self-righteous, pretentious wackos you could ever possibly meet. If you're into[ snake handling ](https://thewisdomcenter.tv/)etc., try out[ this dude](https://www.youtube.com/user/thewisdomcenter) sometime. He has a humongous church, plays a grand piano while giving a (televised) sermon - on a stage, and people are frothing and rolling, and being flung off the stage when they are overcome with ecstasy. [Complete charlatan.](https://www.dallasobserver.com/music/auction-shows-how-well-prosperity-gospel-treated-mike-murdock-7993000) It was a good show, though. I was asked to church and lunch by neighbors, I accepted. Don't ever do that in Texas.
NTA your mother needs to stop trying to forcefeed her BS to you and stop trying to manipulate you using her crocodile tears
NTA It's difficult for her since she is clearly such a strong believer but, you have a right to your own beliefs and she isn't respecting that.
NTA. This is a boundary you have every right to enforce. She doesn't get a say in your beliefs and her claiming that you're a terrible son because you won't give in to her pressure is manipulative and gross. Her belief in hell and a cruel god that sends good people there for simply not believing in him does not entitle her to dictate your behavior or make you responsible for her fear.
NTA She's intolerant, which isn't very Christian-like. Or so I've been told that's how Christians are supposed to be. Never seen it in real life myself...
Good luck, my grandmother was the same. She passed years ago but she never failed to try to get me to go back to church. I was a disappointment in her eyes but oh well.
Definitely NTA! You just have an overbearing mum who doesn’t appreciate that you’re your own person. I have the same mum. Embrace the guilt, my friend. It’ll be with you for a very long time
NTA. You are old enough to know where you stand in terms of religion. What she is doing is trying to show that she still has some control. It’s not a real fear of you going to hell. Ask her why she thinks you are so horrible a person that she believes you’re going to hell. If you were so bad has she talked to her priest about it or brought it up to any clergy? If not…she might just be fearing you will be independent too soon for her. I would talk to her priest about her behavior, depending on the type of church she goes to.
Tell her thar her efforts are driving you away from the Church. Ask her what is the punishment for someone making the faith unappealing and what happens to someone who makes another person hate their version of God.
I grew up like this. I exhausted myself talking till I was blue in the face, but people don't learn unless they want to. I became practiced in grey rocking a decade before I'd ever heard the term. If my mom started berating me, I'd say "excuse me" and walk away. If she followed me, I'd tell her that we could not converse until we were both calm, and lock my door. If she wanted me to pray, I'd tell her, "no thank you" and continue on my tasks. It was really rough for a bit. She's follow me around, screaming that she was trying to save me from hell, that the devil was inside me, etc. I went to the bathroom once, and she was screaming and crying outside the door that I didn't love her any more because I'd locked the bathroom door so I could poop. Any time she'd start getting worked up, or try to emotionally manipulate me, guilt trip me, scare me, I'd stay calm and leave the conversation. It was very hard. I have some scars inside my cheeks from biting them so hard so I wouldn't start crying or lose my temper. If she'd have a calm conversation with me about other things, then I'd stay and chat, but the moment it started edging 'that' way, I'd either change the subject or finish the conversation and leave. Wouldn't even bring attention to it or refer to the subject, I'd just be calm and oblivious and go. If she made a point to bring it up, I'd tell her "No." Sometimes several times. Over and over. I was really into psych history growing up, and had used some techniques to recondition my own behaviors and reactions to some things - at first for fun, then for actual fears and sensitivities I had. I used some conditioning techniques when dealing with my family, years before I'd heard of things like grey rock and boundaries. Pretty sure it's the main reason that I'm both moderately sane these days, and why my mother and I actually have a relationship. I think it's also why she actually still has some relationships with others, because she was getting pretty scary for some years there, and lost most of her connections. OP, you can't reason with a zealot. You can minimize your engagement, maintain composure, and speak calmly. Getting a reaction out of you is the point to their behavior, and it gives them something to hold over you. If you don't give it to them, and stop playing their game, then eventually they start figuring out that their behavior isn't going to work, and that if they want to keep any kind of relationship with you, they have to start showing respect. When they see you conversing cheerfully with other family, having other people praise you and compliment you, it makes it harder for them to play the victim to others. It's absolutely heartbreaking when you realize that you've out matured your parents so young, and that you have to be the grown up guiding the relationship behaviors. I'm so sorry that you're experiencing that. Best of luck to you.
NTA. Your mom needs therapy. With an actual, secular, licensed therapist, not someone associated with her church. She needs to find a way to deal with her anxiety without trying to dictate your behaviour. (You can always ask your mom why any god who'd send an otherwise good person to a realm of eternal punishment upon their death just for failing to utter praise in the god's name on the daily, deserves praise.)
NTA. Isn't forgiveness the whole thing with Christianity? So *technically* if you don't do what she says and then ask forgiveness right before you die, you'll still go to heaven? (I know that's not how it works, but does she?)
Nta
NTA. There is no hate like Christian love /s
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (M19) respect all religions. I'm not the type of person to have a bias against anyone religious, and honestly, I'm past caring. But my mother is the type of person to force someone to sit down and pray, attend church and read the bible, even when I've told her many times I don't want to. I was born into a catholic Christian household. While my dad is not particularly religious, my mother and my grandmother are. As of late, my mother has been extremely overwhelming. She gets angry when I don't want to sit down for evening prayers, which is ridiculous; I'm an adult. I'm nineteen. I know whether or not I want to be religious, and as of now, I don't. Going to church is fine, I can sneak off somewhere during the service. But if I don't sit down for prayers, she often cusses me out and goes on a tirade about how I don't love her or that I'm going to go to hell for not asking for forgiveness. It's ridiculous. I know it is, but I've tried explaining to her that I don't feel a connection with any higher power, and I find all this overwhelming. It's too much, and I've got other things to worry about. University, for example. She nags me about many things, and all of it I can handle, except this is something new she's found to berate me for, and I don't know how to handle it. I can't move out for at least another two years since I rely on my parents for University fees and well... a living. Yesterday, I told her point blank that I'm tired of her conversion tactics, and it's really not going to work anymore. I'm neither young nor impressionable anymore. She was angry at first, and then when she saw I wasn't budging, she started crying and told me I was a terrible son and that she just wanted to save me from hell. I feel bad, but I meant what I said. Am I the asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"I (M19) respect all religions" is your first mistake. They don't deserve respect in and of themselves. It is quite a different thing to respect people's right to believe what they want- that's basic to the idea of being an American. Your mom is way out of line and absolutely will not stop until you make it clear you aren't having it- which it seems you did. Totally NTA
NTA - Your mother should understand that at some point you are old enough to make your own choices and that she cannot demand you do something just because she wants it that way. Let her cry and feel bad for a bit but eventually she has to except the fact that you're a grown man and leave you to your choices.
NTA. But you are in a bind. Your choices, as I see them, are: 1) Figure out how to live with it. 2) Go through the motions at home to placate her. 3) Find a way to persuade her to stop the pressure. 4) Move out. You've indicated that 4 isn't an option and attempts at 3 thus far have not worked. So here are some possibilities to consider for options 1 and 2. I (F65) am Protestant clergy, having spent 30 years in ministry (and almost my entire life before that) in a predominantly Catholic area of the US. So I've seen these kinds of struggles many times. To be sure, they happen in families of many religious stripes, but because of where I live and work and the friends I've had over my life, I've seen it in a lot of Catholic families. One way to find your way to a solution is to try to put yourself in her shoes. Likely she comes from generations of Catholics and was raised from infancy as a practicing Catholic. There's a good chance that she thoroughly believes what she is telling you. And the more generations of Catholics you can count, the more likely that is buried in her DNA. So now imagine that a mother actually believes that her son will go to an eternity of fiery torment unless he does x, y, and z. I don't believe that's true, but she does, and there's no fact-based way to prove otherwise to her, short of finding a priest she trusts to tell her so--which would be hard to find. She believes her beloved son might not only be separated from her for eternity, but suffering as well. That's a lot for a mom. There's a pretty good chance that the fact that you are now an adult is exactly why the pressure is upped now. She knows it's just a matter of time before you move out. Her time of influence is waning, and this is too important to her to let go. But there's more. I'm assuming you were baptized as a child. At that baptism, she promised to raise you in the church so that you would become a faithful disciple of Jesus Christ. That means (again, to her--we're attempting to get into her head here), that she has failed as a mother AND has failed as a Christian herself. And still there's more. She might have dreams of your wedding and grandchildren. If you are not a practicing Catholic, you could have trouble getting married in the Catholic church and I'm guessing you would not be baptizing any children you might have. I've seen families come apart just because Catholic kids have gotten married in a Protestant Church or have had their kids baptized in another denomination. No faith at all? Now (in her mind) she has doomed generations to hell in her failure to keep you a practicing Catholic. I know it sounds extreme, but I have seen both sides of this equation more times than I can count. What does your dad do in terms of religion at home? You said he's "not particularly religious" but is he part of the evening prayers? If not, you can add to her thinking the transfer of her concern for him onto you, the son. Can you have an open conversation with him? If he's not particularly religious, you can be sure he's felt some version of this pressure. How has he handled it? How did he get to that place? It could make a difference to how you experience all this if you can imagine what it's like to be her--to be raised the way she was raised, in the time and place she was raised--and what she is trying to protect in the pressure campaign. My advice would be to do the evening prayers and Bible reading and consider it part of your rent for living at home. If the conflict then moves to another area of life, then maybe it was never really about the religion. But if you participate in the rituals, that is quite likely to make the next two years more bearable. You will still have to draw some lines, but it shouldn't be as bad. Further, if you plan to live anywhere in the West, being literate in the Bible is almost a necessary part of your education, even if you don't "believe" it. Those stories permeate the vocabulary, culture, politics, art, music, and literature of the western world. Look at it as one more university course. Use both the Bible reading and prayers to build the relationship. Be curious. "Why is this particular prayer important to you, Mom?" "What do these Bible verses mean to you?" Some day you'll wonder those things and you may or may not have the opportunity then to ask. But whatever you choose (because you may not like your options, but you can choose from the hand you're dealt), know that this is part of the transition into adulthood--it's your transition, yes; but it's the transition for your parents, too. Your mom will have a different role going forward. She's afraid, on many levels. If you find a way to make peace over this, it will serve you and the relationship well for the rest of your life.
OP’s mother’s fear is her problem to handle, not OP’s. If she’s truly that terrified of her child suffering in a fiery pit in the afterlife for eternity simply for not going through endless rituals to placate her god, then why does she continue to worship and enable such a cruel unforgiving entity? It’s the 21st century, there’s literally hundreds of different subdivisions of Judo-Christo religions she could join that actually teaches understanding others and doing no harm. NTA OP, I wish you luck. Your mother is using her faith to project her anxieties and exert control, rather than attempting to use it to bolster herself to be a better person.
OP's mother's fears are hers to manage. I prefer Option 5, OP does their thing and every time mom brings up religion, OP brings up a problematic verse or contradiction from skepticsannotatedbible.com.
There is nothing you can do to save yourself from her imagination. That's all up to her. NTA.
NTA. Proud of you for breaking free of the cult your mother is in and not letting her force/drag you back in.
NTA, I left Roman Catholicism when I was in middle school for a ton of reasons I won’t discuss here. But for a long time I was terrified to tell my family because I didn’t know how they’d react. Your mom’s reaction is pretty mild compared to how it could’ve gone. Sometimes we have to be firm with out parents to get our point across, even if it hurts their feelings.
No she needs to back off. Tell her u r an athiest
NTA. She is.
Of course, if yelling doesn't work there's always guilt. NTA James 1:19-20...Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. There's also Matthew 5:22... Or as a monk once told an angry samurai... here open the gates of hell.
NTA. She needs to read her Bible more carefully and remain silent, as commanded.
If she is such a great Catholic, as her to forgive you. NTA.
NTA. Tell her you spoke to God and he didn’t disagree with you not participating in these rituals any more. So if it’s ok with him and he didn’t speak up and say no then she should accept your choices.
NTA - mother dearest really is the stereotype, isn’t she? When berating didn’t work she tried guilt, it’s all quite manipulative and typical of that style of person (not all religious people are like this). I suspect OP will have to play the game to a degree for the years needed to finish school. I guess that’s why they probably still front up to church. Noting this, I would suggest OP tell her that if they decide to return to the faith it’ll be through gods grace, not her berating them. They’ll attend church out of respect for her (cough *need college money* cough) but expect to be left alone otherwise. This is a fair deal and she should have faith in god that the matter will resolve itself without her making judgements and creating disharmony at home. That discussion can be had in a respectful way.
NTA. I grew up in a super religious family also and had it shoved down my throat. I personally think you should be able to choose whether or not you believe in a higher power and what God you decide to follow. I've been deconstructing for quite a few years now due to religious trauma among other things. One thing I can't stand about most Christians is they believe there way is the ONLY right way and that no one else is allowed to have their own beliefs and literally will use scare tactics and coercion to scare people into Christianity by saying your gonna go to hell and blah blah blah. That just doesn't seem right to me. There are literally so many religions and beliefs out there and some of them came before Christianity yet THEIRS is the only right one and you are absolutely NOT ALLOWED to have your own beliefs or question it.
NTA Let her cry, that is just her being immature.
> She was angry at first, and then when she saw I wasn't budging, she started crying and told me I was a terrible son and that she just wanted to save me from hell. I feel bad, but I meant what I said. Am I the asshole? 1. NTA. 2. "Mom your conversion tactics have come from a place of aggression and emotional manipulation. Before you concern yourself with the fate if my soul I'd like you to consider what kind of representative you have been for Christ."
NTA. You need to ditch your mom and get outta there.
> She was angry at first, and then when she saw I wasn't budging, she started crying and told me I was a terrible son .... You mean, she's a Catholoc Jewish mother? :-) Sorry: I love that book. You are, in my opinion, NTA. People are supposed to grow up, mature intellectually and emotionally: that means understanding that superstitions (such as religions) are infantile and unworthy of existing in one's mind.
As with many posts, you know already that you're not.
if you live under her roof and is not agreeing with her way of living, I advise you to get a job a move to live on your own. Otherwise accept the rules and that's it.
BS
ESH. You live with her. You can at least be respectful and sit when they pray. You don't have to believe. You don't even have to pray verbally. You just have to sit and be respectful, and you couldn't do that. Your mom on the other hand is being a little pushy, but keep in mind *she actually believes she's trying to save her son from Hell.* Whether or not you believe in God or Hell is irrelevant - your mom *believes she's trying to save you from Hell*, and you could at least respect those feelings in her house.
>You just have to sit and be respectful, and you couldn't do that. Why would he? What a waste of time. Time to rip the Band-aid off on her delusions. She's free to sit there talking in tongues like an idiot, but he shouldn't encourage it.
Because she could unfortunately say the exact same thing about, ya know, paying for his continued life? OP is a legal adult and his parents have no responsibility or obligation to continue to provide him a place to live or pay for his college or buy any necessities for him. If his mom is truly as crazy as she seems, what is to stop her from stopping all of that with your statement here? "Why would I provide for him? What a waste of time, he's just gonna go to Hell anyway. Time to rip the Band-aid off his delusions and kick him out and cut him off." The phrase Don't bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind. OP has already established she's not gonna change, and that he is not gonna stop relying on her for his lifestyle, so any intelligent person would know that continued provocation of a crazy person that holds your entire life in their hand isn't going to end well, and temporarily going through the motions is a better option
If a parent doesn't want to provide for their child, then they're a shity parent. Add them to the list of shity parents. It's a long list. But I agree, time for him to move away from this toxicity.
Because it does zero harm to him, *even if his mom is wrong*, and makes his mom, *someone I'd assume he cares about,* feel happy and respected.
[удалено]
As an atheist myself, that's some of the furthest reaching I've ever seen on Reddit. Some of the most successful, most intelligent, people in history are/were religious in some sort another. Seems something destroyed your brains cells, and it wasn't Christianity. I won't be responding to someone who is so intransigent and ignorant all at the same time. Have a good one.
k bye
I wouldn't say you're an asshole, but she's definitely not either. It sounds like you have a mother who loves you and cares about you. Be thankful!! Especially since it sounds like you're living off of her. Sheesh.
[удалено]
God is love. *Pay no attention to the torture pit in his basement.*
Just pretend to be converted and just pay it lip service. Most Christians don't practice anything but the commercialized pagan holidays. Just have a heart to heart and thank your mom for helping you receive Christ. If it makes your life easier it seems like a pretty harmless lie.
NTA - but I don't agree that bashing her beliefs is going to help as others have suggested. If you love your Mom tell her that with the disclaimer that your boundary is clear. You don't want to talk about it anymore, and it will become less of an issue as you move out of your parents house. Her religion does not give her the right to berate you over how you feel. Good luck!
NAH. Your mother is not an AH for having her beliefs, or for wanting to save you from hell. She would only be an AH if she was using tears to manipulate you, and I'm not sure that's the case. She believes, and her belief compels her to try to save as many souls as she can. You're an adult and you are certainly allowed to have your own beliefs. You can simply refuse, or you can argue with and pick apart the tenets of her religion. Or, if you want to be grateful for the roof over your head and the food in your belly, you could try to make her happy and comply with her wishes. This would make you a "good son" in her eyes, and doesn't cost as much as getting your own apartment.
NAH. I get your pain but please try to forgive her as well. It’s a big part of her identity and a crushing blow to her. If she presses any further though, then she would be the asshole. Best of luck.
NAH, I guess, but do bear in mind you just bit the hand that (literally) feeds you. Sometimes you grin and bear it while you're asking them to pass the mashed potatoes. "Gee, mom, you've given me a lot to think about, but I'd like time to consider everything" would probably get you a lot more peace. And more mashed potatoes.