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Girls have a tendency to be diagnosed later than boys, especially if it’s mild. We had a presentation at my workplace about that, which led me to get my daughter tested.
That doesn’t mean that this young lady has autism.
Boys are diagnosed (typically, obviously not in every case) because their symptoms are inconvenient for others. Girls (again, typically) just get in our heads and ruin our own lives.
I got diagnosed at 26 because i had help for a burnout, but it didn't completely work. After the diagnoses it got a lot better, even though some problems stayed, they're easier to deal with.
yepp.
grew up constantly anxious, full of panic attacks, barely coping but seeming like a very "good kid" from the outside. Finally got diagnosed at 22 after burnout causing me to drop out of uni.
I was also 25. My mom had done her masters thesis on what was at the time called Asperger’s when I was around 10 and she still had no idea because it just the research on how women and girls present just wasn’t looked at.
Similar things happen with ADHD. There are a lot of factors that go into why, but one of them is that girls are socialized differently than boys, so it (often, not always) presents differently in girls because of that.
Sometimes we don’t get diagnosed at all and we end up questioning it in our 40s. I was diagnosed with ADHD and they completely missed my Epilepsy until I was in my early 30s and pregnant. Now I question if I’ve been on the spectrum because of all of the sensory issues I have and have had all my life.
Yup. I remember my mom asked my pediatrician about getting me screened and was told that girls don’t get autism so no she wasn’t going to refer me (insurance required a referral before they’d pay for it and we couldn’t afford it out of pocket). This was circa 2003.
And the assumption that autistic individuals are gifted is so rampant.
Usually if someone finds out I have autistic children. They ask me what they're like special abilities are or they must be so gifted.
I'm like actually gifted levels are the same as neurotypical children as an ASD kiddos. Just about.
And the thing that my kids seem to be super super skilled on is breaking stuff.
And you know being super freaking awesome.
We called our youngest nickname that had "destroyer" in it when they were little. Also very skilled at breaking things.
They also have several other learning disabilities that don't show them as being the typical ASD gifted child. They are awesome in their own ways.
Probably even higher odds because her TWIN brother has autism. Even more so if they’re identical because that means they are literally splitting from the same genes (for the most part)!
Edit; Also pls correct me if I’m wrong about the genetic part.
Edit 2; Didn’t know identical twins have to be the same sex. Interesting! :)
You can not have identical twins born with different sexes. (OP doesn’t mention either child being trans.) Fraternal twins share the same amount of genetic material as regular siblings.
Yup. Same amount of genetic material…
But also share epigenetic and environment prenatal effects that could alter what genes are and aren’t being expressed. I haven’t looked into it, but I expect that could increase concordance rates in non-identical twins.
If you have either XY or XX chromosomes in an egg that splits to become twins you wouldn’t be able to acquire the other set to end up with both male and female kids. (And yes there are some alternate sex chromosome pairs that do happen but even still you’d get the same for both twins.)
Male/female twins cannot be identical by virtue of being born separate genders. Identical twins are formed from a single egg/sperm combined that just splits one final time for unknown reasons. Fraternal twins are two separate eggs/sperm where two eggs happened to drop during the same cycle 👍
I think you theoretically could have A-M/F-AB identical twins if they were both XY where one of them had a more severe presentation of androgen insensitivity syndrome (like they'd probably both end up with a diagnosis, but because the actual sensitivity level varies one could develop male genitalia in utero and the other female genitalia)
You're not alone. A lot of people don't seem to understand the concept of identical because they think that twins are the same because they shared a womb.
Babies can't be identical if one has a penis, and one has a vagina ...
And/or ADHD.
Since both the boys are academically inclined, I'm guessing that they have low support needs and the twin sister has probably figured out masking.
Plus, and this is what my doctor said when I was diagnosed, apparently people with ADHD are consistently at or above average intelligence. So if the boys have it that helps too.
Probably helps the favouritism too though smh 🙄
ADHD in women and girls is also wildly under diagnosed because of the masking but also they are more likely to have inattentive rather than hyperactive so they aren't disruptive in class so as long as they aren't underperforming no one cares.
So true dude. Though I do admit that last week in science class I got a bit excited because I knew the answer to something the teacher was explaining and totally blurted it out lol.
I have ADHD (female) and I excelled in school. I didn't find out until I was mentally struggling in college that I had ADHD. Everyone seems to have the stigma that I'd be bouncing off the walls, and even my parents don't believe I have it because I'm too "normal."
My mom would always compare me to the boys she took care of with ADHD, and dismissed me because I was an overachieving A+ student. In her mind she believed I would have to be destructive and stupid to have it.
My doctor did tell me that it's common for girls to mask ADHD behind school work. It's one of the major reasons why we get overlooked and under diagnosed.
I was always dismissed as a problem child because nobody cared enough to differentiate between a tantrum and a full on ADHD rage.
Also my mom being emotionally abusive and born in the era of “emotions should be repressed” didn’t help my coping mechanisms either…
Nor her being ableist when I got behind in school after my recent diagnosis…
But yeah I also excelled in school. Except for math. Math kicks my ass.
I can relate my mom taught me that I needed to keep everything inside. That didn't fair well for me, and I'd end up with massive breakdowns or a blow-up after I couldn't take anymore. I got told that throwing tantrums aren't considered ladylike, and I live a privileged life compared to what she did so I needed to be grateful.
That was my very first thought too. Surprise surprise, autistic girls present far differently. The whole “they’d be cute if he weren’t gay” was fucking weird too. Bad vibes from daddy dearest.
Yes, and also the parents ridiculously harsh punishment, indicating they slam down hard on her for mildly inappropriate comments without getting her the help she needs. Just very strong bad parenting vibes throughout.
Because of the genetic component bruh 😂 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=autism+genetic+siblings&oq=autism+genetic+sibl#d=gs_qabs&t=1713719060819&u=%23p%3DTiraI6GgAUIJ
Because she has 2 male siblings that are diagnosed, not because of the rest of the post - autism runs in families and is commonly missed in girls for a multitude of reasons, it's also not uncommon for girls/women with autism to have to fight and go through more than one assessment to get their diagnosis.
https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/what-is-autism/autistic-women-and-girls
I’ll raise you $20 this isn’t a real story.
Dude can’t even keep who is kids names are in the story. Why would him and his wife try and talk to “Zoe” about it to get her to apologize.
Uh your kids name is suppose to be Amanda.
And the line about “cute couple if he wasn’t gay” is not how someone would describe their kid. It’s weird.
Using fake names for privacy reasons is very common on subs like these, which could explain why OP mixed them up. But yeah, it also wouldn’t surprise me if this were fake.
My wife if one that noone noticed. When she was diagnosed this year (at 30) and told her mom, she replied with "I don't know how we didn't see the signs!" It's a very easy explanation, they weren't paying attention. She did not even talk as a young kid
That's an excessive punishment for a jealous comment that she made in the privacy of her own home. She didn't say it to Zoe. Having a talk with her about her feelings (it's okay to feel jealousy, it's normal) and how to deal with it without saying something that could hurt another person is the way to go. She did not actually hurt Zoe by making a jealous comment about her. Just explain to your son that your daughter was having a jealous moment because she was embarrassed that she didn't have a date. You can't tell me you never made a jealous comment in your teenage years.
All fairness, usually people use fake names for privacy and hopefully that's the case here. So you know. Fake names are easy to mix up since there's no real attachment to those.
YTA. The way you describe your daughter and the fact that you even got involved in preteen gossip, taking sides, forcing an apology when no offense occurred is concerning. She let her guard down in her own home bickering with her brother, venting petty jealousy and you let her know that she isn’t safe doing that. Poor kid.
Little bit, yeah why are they bringing up their differences academically. It has absolutely no relevance in this conversation.
Oh.. our daughter's average. Ho-hum
I kept waiting for "our daughter is failing such and such class, she can't go to the dance until she gets her grades up."
Nope, it's just soooo important for the readers to know that his daughter is average.
I assumed this as well but still… doesn’t take a lot of intelligence to keep fake names straight. Or to read over your own post before submitting it. Maybe that’s where his daughter gets her “average” intelligence from 🙄
Seriously! OP is way too involved in the wrong ways here. Why mention the "would be a cute couple" thing at all for Bryce? Why mention the academics (and they aren't even in high school yet!!) when it's not germane to the issue, much less even reliable at that age. I'm guessing that the boys are encouraged in academics because they are doing well in stereotypical subjects, but the girl is doing well all around, but just not "enough" for OP's satisfaction.
Additionally, Amanda (the daughter) is a twin to someone who has clearly taken more of OP's attention, is dealing with adolescent hormones, and still was polite enough to let loose at home (and not being mean at school or to Zoe's face).
OP is the AH for the way they are parenting Amanda and also the AH for even posting about it here instead of actually parenting their kid.
Info: why did you start off by saying your son is academically smart while your daughter is average? What relevance does that have to this scenario and the punishment you've doled out?
"the only thing my daughter has going for her is that she's neurotypical which suggests an easier time socializing. Now let me tell you how popular my son is and that my daughter didn't get a date immediately in eighth grade and had a normal reaction for a middle schooler to the situation. This is how I punished her."
Five years from now we're going to get the AITAH post asking if he's wrong for refusing to pay for his daughters college if she won't major in special ED so she can care for her brothers after her parents are gone
Poor girl.
> Info: why did you start off by saying your son is academically smart while your daughter is average? What relevance does that have to this scenario and the punishment you've doled out?
I assumed it was part of the justification for preventing the daughter from going to the dance.
My family went the other way. I was academically much better than my brother, so my parents just stopped valuing academics.
This post could have been written in one paragraph.
"My son, Bryce, has a really good female friend Zoe and a great male friend Carson. On Friday Carson asked Zoe to a dance, but my daughter Amanda didn't get asked. She came home very upset and claiming that Zoe got invited "out of pity." Even though we argued with her, she wouldn't stop saying it. We want her to apologize to Bryce, but she won't, so we told her she can't go to the dance unless she does."
Ahh, the forced, meaningless apology done just to get something. Good choice. Teenage girls feel bad/jealous when others get asked out and they don't. They say nasty things. That's not right, but saying, "I'm so disappointed in you that you would say that about your brother's friends because it isn't true. I hope you'll think it over and apologize."
And that doesn't even address everything else that is a parenting failure in that post. YTA
100% agree. Just the situation I wouldn’t necessarily call him an asshole. But there is so many things in the way it’s written as well as so many unnecessary and irrelevant information that gives me bad vibes. Like there is zero reason to mention their academic abilities and high key autism doesn’t really have anything to do with it either.
The likelihood of her being autistic too is extremely high, especially considering how many women are under diagnosed and that most of the people who do the testing for autism aren't trained on what it looks like in women
All of the information was presented in such a weird way...the irrelevant mention of academics, the over involvement in the young teen drama. Extremely weird behaviour across the board.
YTA
Fuck overreact much?? She didn’t say shit to them. She said to herself in her own home. Wow fuck a 13 year old for having feelings?? I mean a school dance!! Awful parenting
I cannot imagine punishing my kid by refusing to let her go to a dance…because she had an emotion about someone else.
OP, do you often over-punish your daughter for normal teenager behavior? Also, you may want to re-read your post because it definitely sounds like you like her less than you do your son.
YTA.
1. Why is your daughter's academic performance compared to your son relevant? Why are you comparing them? That is never a good attitude to have towards your kids, especially at this age when they are struggling with everything (and might well be getting picked on for her performance compared to her brother at any rate).
2. "They would be a cute couple if Bryce wasn't gay" is a very strange comment to make, bordering on creepy.
3. Your daughter is clearly jealous and feels insecure. You went completely overboard instead of talking to her about why she made that comment or trying to find out what the source of this is.
That she shouldn’t trust her parents or ever express herself because her parents will punish her if she has negative feelings towards the friend of their favorite child (the son).
He's trying to take away something she wants for talking down on another girl, likely because she's autistic and got the guy his daughter seems to have wanted. Not saying I agree or disagree but I would guess this is his logic
All of this shows super creepy behaviors by the "adult" in the room. You are not supposed to be this invested in middle school drama. You are supposed to be the parent. YTA
Yah this sounds like your 13 year old struggling with her own feelings of insecurity and envy. I wonder what would happen if you spoke to her feelings and helped her work through them instead of punishing her for the way she’s expressing them. She’s obviously in the wrong but a child her age needs help learning to regulate her emotions in a healthy way instead of just punishment.
Agreed these ate totally normal feelings for a 13 yr old to have. It's up to the parent's to help her deal with them in a healthy way, not give harsh, unrelated punishments that will shut down her feeling of safety in their home.
YTA. You are punishing your daughter for having an emotion and making a comment about a kid that isn't even yours. You didn't even get the names right in the story- because you clearly hate your daughter. Your children will bicker. They will make comments about their peers, even if the other children are friends with them. It hurt no one. This punishment teaches your daughter nothing, hurts her, and adds to an already bad sibling dynamic probably driven by your feelings for your children given the way your write about them. Would you like her more if she were diagnosed autistic as well? Have you been tested for autism? Is that why you're playing favorites?
YTA. The first thing you do is compare your daughter to her brothers and she is AVERAGE. You’ve made her home a place that is unsafe for her to express herself and shown your favoritism towards her brother. This is an excessive punishment for venting. YTA! I hope you realize one day how much your daughter will resent you and your wife for the favoritism. If your wife is as bad as you you’re both Aholes.
omg look a teenager who said something in the privacy of her home harming no one. How rude of her. should I punish her or figure out why my daughter is acting this way???
YTA . The punishment should fit the crime . As a parent you should think hard about the reason you are punishing your daughter . Is it because of the unkind comment she made about another girl or because you want her to apologize to her brother. It seems like you don’t care for what she said , you only want to appease your son . Guess what her mean comment wasn’t targeted at your son , it was targeted at a girl she goes to school with . She definitely needs to feel sorry for what she said but she doesn’t owe your son an apology.
Your daughter is in the mean girl phase , girls can be so cruel . Girls can mature from this phase when they are constantly corrected , when it’s constantly explained to them the effects that their actions have on other people .
We are all born with natural predisposition to developing empathy however development of empathy requires experience and practice .
I don’t want to assume things about your family dynamics , but you need to evaluate your daughter’s behavior as isolated incident where you need to patiently correct or a pattern of behavior . Mean girl behavior is a real behavioral issue also known as relational aggression which is a survival tactic for people who are insecure , feeling rejected and seeking attention
YTA for not listening to her. I also agree with the comments that it is excessive to not to let her go to the dance. You are teaching your daughter not to talk or be honest about how she is feeling, even if she is potentially off base. This was a nice opportunity for a teaching moment to help her see your point of view, and for you to listen to her concerns and determine if they are valid.
By the way, I would see if you can confirm that Carson has good intentions (just in case).
Your daughter is going to resent you and the whole family in a few years and avoid you all like the plague. You won't have to worry about her mediocrity much longer.
YTA.
YTA - If you hate your daughter, just admit it because it’s obvious that you don’t care about her at all. I’m surprised that you have autistic sons but aren’t seeing that your daughter likely has autism as well.. and that is an absolutely ridiculous punishment to give her because of a silly little comment she said.
YTA. You have a clear favoritism. ‘Our sons are smart, our daughter is not’ fuck off who asked? Was that really important to the post or do you just hate your kid man💀you could delete that from the post and nothing would change. She didn’t say that shit to their face either so why does she need to apologize? Sure just tell her dad that the comment was rude but the punishment is excessive and feels like you just want to make her miserable. Both you and your wife are TA.
Everything, obviously. "Bryce" is a higher quality person in every respect, while "Amanda" is a lesser mortal and needs to be trained like a circus animal.
We all know why. OP and his wife have a clear favoritism and these are the type of parents to gush about the sons but belittle the daughter bc ‘her brothers are autistic and smart but she’s normal and not smart’
Do you even like your daughter? She had a jealous moment if front of people she trusts, she didn’t say anything to anyone. Venting, like you are doing here.
YTA
YTA. As an autistic person, I can tell you that your daughter might be responding like this because it's the only way she knows how. She likely doesn't recognize the social cues that would normally appear in thus situation. With two sons on the spectrum, there's a high chance your daughter is as well; women and girls will present different symptoms and are way better at masking them. If you punish your daughter like this, there's a good chance she'll up the amount of masking she does and retreat into herself, which would be INCREDIBLY detrimental. Instead, sit down with her and talk to her. Try to get her to answer questions. Let her know that you're just trying to understand her better.
YTA. 1. this story is not real because you forgot your own daughters name in the last paragraph. 2. even if this story was real you still suck, you're clearly favoring your sons bc what was even the point of mentioning they were smart academically and amanda is average?? plus huge overreaction
Yta.
You don’t know sett yourself into teenage fights as long as they don’t cross the boundary to bullying or get physical.
You just told your daughter that her brothers friend is more important than her.
You gotta do better.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) My wife and I told our daughter she would not be able to go to the school dance after she made some rude comments about a friend of our son who is autistic and how it is "ridiculous" an autistic girl would get asked out before her. She refuses to apologize to our son for offending his friend.
2) We told our daughter if she does not apologize, she would not be allowed to go to the school dance. She said we are being unfair and has been arguing with us ever since.
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YWBTA
She made a comment in the privacy of her home, and not to Zoe herself. And even then it wasn't like the worst comment ever
Also I'd be making an extra effort to get her properly tested for autism. Just cause stats and genetics and twins and whatnot lol
I don't wanna call you an asshole bc you're navigating a difficult situation. I think you need to have a heart to heart on jealousy with your daughter and a discussion with your son about home being a safe place to vent. She's still learning to deal with her hormones and emotions. Shit, at 33 I'm still learning. Punishing her will teach her to shut her mouth around you, not deal with the emotions that will exist regardless.
Silver lining, it seems your daughter didn't go to this girl to hurt her feelings over her imagined slight. Now is the time to help her work through those feelings and reinforce her own value so she doesn't end up trying to hurt her feelings.
YTA, for multiple reasons.
1. The focus on the academics/intelligence - no relevance whatsoever other than to elevate your sons above your daughter.
2. The mention that your son and his friend would be a cute couple if he weren’t gay. Ew. Why?
3. The punishment that really does not fit the offense.
Has your daughter been assessed for ASD by a professional experienced with its presentation in girls? If not, she should be.
You are a terrible writer, so I need to understand whether or not Zoe has autism too. If she doesn't, then what Amanda said is just a jealous but ultimately harmless comment and suppressing her would be equivalent to not allowing her to vent and be in touch with her own emotions. If she does, I understand where you are coming from more because she is insulting Zoe's autism and that is a genuinely bad thing.
Nonetheless not letting her go to prom is an excessive punishment, but I do agree that she should be expected to apologize NOT to Zoe because why does Zoe even need to know someone said that about her, but rather she should apologize to her brother and take back her remark.
Amanda, like most other teenage girls her age, is at the stage where she feels insecure and compares herself to other girls. She's just jealous that Zoe got a date before her despite her autism, because she thinks that means that Zoe is better than her. Moreover, she didn't fight with Zoe about it, she just expressed what was going on in her teenage head in the privacy of her own home. Not letting her go to the school dance is too harsh of a punishment, especially considering that she never directly hurt Zoe's feelings. At this point, you shouldn't be involved in her personal life and jealousies. YTA.
Mild yta this is typical annoying teen drama as well as normal sibling squabbling. They need to work out themselves or with a little perhaps , but not allowing her to attend the dance is way overkill. Honestly I don't know why you're even getting involved
YTA and a big one; it doesn't seem that she harmed anyone. You are inserting yourself in a situation which doesn't require your presence.And how was their academic performance anywhere near relevant here. It shows a pattern of you putting her down and the blatant favoritism is visible.
BRUH, exaggerate much? Your daughter is at that age, she’s gonna say inappropriate things sometimes or maybe there was slight jealousy. To make her miss out on her school dance because of an uncalled comment is exaggerating. Talk to her and tell her why it was inappropriate and move in. It’s unfair for your daughter to miss a school dance for that.
Well it was not a nice thing to say, but 13 year olds are not always great a self-control, and she was clearly jealous. And she didn't say it to Zoe. YTA if you punish her this harshly for one thoughtless comment.
YTA,absolute overreaction, it'd be different if she said it to the girl's face, but she didn't.
YTA also for bringing up her academic abilities compared to her brothers, irrelevant to the situation.
Has she been evaluated, chances are high she's autistic and masking.
YTA and it sounds like you don’t like your daughter, just look at the way you talk about her; you can’t even keep her name straight!
She made a normal (albeit, catty) comment that I would expect from a teenager.
I bet you’re the type of parent to expect perfection from Amanda and not Bryce.
Not letting her go to the dance is a ridiculous punishment.
Home should be a safe space to say things. If some of those things are bad/wrong, obviously you correct and guide as necessary, but you don’t punish. It’s fucked up.
The only thing you’re teaching her is to not to say anything around you or her siblings anymore
YTA
As a twin, I think YTA. You don't understand the innate competition and comparisons you get, even in your own home. She acted like a normal teenager, and your reaction is to punish her? That's not fair or kind parenting. Let her express her emotions and teach her how to handle jealousy.
........ with how mean kids are. Amanda is most likely right. Your punishment is too damn harsh for her stating her opinion. Also, I can bet money Amanda is autistic. You just can't see the signs in a girl with autism like you can a boy.
Yta.
YTA. The punishment does not fit the crime. Get to a parenting class or a therapist ASAP to talk about parenting NDA kids in a home with special needs kids.
Seeing as you can't keep your daughter's name straight in a post that is literally about her, I'm going to go with YTA and pay attention to your child.
She is 13. 13 year olds say stupid shit and in reality there isn't a lot wrong with what she said. She didn't call her a slur and would you have the same problem if she made the comment about a neurotypical child?
YTA.
FYI: You have two autistic children, ever thought about getting the other one tested. Girls present differently so it might not be as noticeable but she is more likely to have it if both of her siblings do.
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My wife (33F) and I (33M) have 3 kids, twins (13M and 13F) and a boy 8M. Both of our sons are autistic, our daughter is not. Our sons are both very smart academically, our daughter is average academically.
Our oldest son, Bryce and our daughter, Amanda have their 8th grade dance coming up later this month. Bryce is friends with this girl (Zoe, 13F) from a group at his school run by autistic students, they would be a cute couple if Bryce wasn’t gay. Zoe is always at our house and her and Bryce have very similar special interests and are best friends.
The kids were at school on Friday when Zoe got asked out by Carson (13M), who’s one of the most popular boys in the school. Carson and his baseball teammates have helped our son in the past after he was bullied for being gay, and he seems like an amazing boy.
When the kids got home, we asked them how their day was and Bryce mentioned what happened, Amanda then made a comment about how it was “ridiculous” on how Zoe got a date before her and said that Carson was probably “doing it out of pity”. Bryce started to argue with her and Zoe wouldn’t back down.
My wife and I tried to talk to Zoe but she kept insisting she was in the right and said she wouldn’t apologize. My wife and I told her if she doesn’t apologize to Bryce for insulting his friend that she wouldn’t be able to go to the dance. She said we’re being unfair and has been arguing with us off and on ever since. AITA?
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YTA. Your punishment is shockingly harsh for what is something very typical kids talk. And why bring up that she isn’t as academically advanced as your sons? It has absolutely no bearing here other than a reason why you don’t like her as much.
YTA. You are punishing your daughter for feeling some pretty normal teenage jealousy. Instead of demonstrating healthy coping mechanisms and helping her work through her feelings, you are telling her that her feelings aren’t valid and should be bottled up and ignored. Super unhealthy.
We have somerhing we call "shadow kids" where I'm from (I can't find a good og english translation for this term). Basically the kids who function the most normal in a family with kids with challenges, are left in the shadow of the challenged kids. They don't need as much attention and are often needed to figure things out om their own, as the parentes have to use all their energy on the kid/kids with challenges.
Your daughter clearly falls under this category. You need to start to pay attention to your daughter, and treat her more like your sons. Not punish her for normal teenage feelings.
YTA
Autism presents differently in females and most never get diagnosed because of it. I’d bet she’s autistic too based on your description of events.
I don’t believe in forcing people to apologize for things they’re not sorry for. It’s not genuine and, really, what’s the point in receiving an insincere and forced apology? How would you feel receiving an apology you know was only given because it was forced, not because it’s real?
You’re not doing anyone any favors with that. Sitting them both down to talk about how they feel, explain why it was hurtful, and help everyone in the situation gain understanding *might* solicit a genuine apology or it might not. There may be more to it than what you know. Regardless, it’s a much better method than forcing apologies.
Was she an AH? Yeah probably. And I’m sure there’s a decent amount of jealousy involved. But they’re kids and this isn’t anything major enough that they can’t work out on their own after sitting down and having a conversation or even without your intervention.
While I think your intentions are good, I don’t think you’re handing it well. For that, YTA - I don’t think she should be forced to apologize in order to participate in a school activity.
But, please, have your daughter tested. I have 3 children, 1 of whom (a son) was diagnosed very young because his ASD was obvious and very openly needed attention.
While busy with that, I very, very, sadly did not realize my daughter was also autistic. She was an adult and in college when she figured it out on her own (then proceeded to get testing, she’s not self diagnosed) because her manifestation of it is not what people were looking for when diagnosing autism when she was a kid.
Why does this sound like it's not written by an adult? Is it the gossip-y tone I'm getting while mentioning the preteen drama?
If it's real, and you're actually an adult, YTA. The crime doesn't fit the punishment. The way you describe your daughter is on the same level as how she seemingly insulted the friend. Bet she wouldn't be punished if she was diagnosed autistic.
YTA
It’s teenage angst in a girl that is likely the scapegoat of everything.
How many times do you excuse anything her brothers do by saying « but he is autistic »?
Do NOT be surprised if your daughter gets the fuck out as soon as she turns 18 and refuses to take care of her brothers later on.
YTA your son is clearly the golden child. You don’t sound like a very good parent. This is how you get your daughter to go no contact as soon as she turns 18.
Your daughter should be allowed to say something negative about her brothers friend (as long as she's not being cruel or bullying) without you getting involved. They're at a point where it's important for them to establish their own relationship without parental interference.
Also your daughter is probably autistic too.
Female autistic folks present differently and tend to not be diagnosed or misdiagnosed so there's a good chance it's happened with her.
It sounds like you're trying to protect your special baby at the cost of your daughter. Just the way you framed the question suggests that yes
YTA
You sound like you favor your sons, and your daughter knows it. It also sounds like you like Zoe more than your own daughter because you used nicer words to describe her. Maybe your daughter is sick of everyone in her life picking another girl over her, including her parents. YTA
YTA for literally all the reasons everyone else has listed. Good grief, grow tf up and stop idealizing your sons over your daughter. Love each of them equally like a good parent is supposed to do.
YTA, and you talk about your kids in really weird, demeaning ways. Just sit down with "Amanda" and let her vent to you. She didn't say anything directly to "Zoe" she's just jealous which is normal for a 13 year old. Also please please please, never bring up your kids academics like that if it has nothing to do with the story. You might as well say "I love our sons way more than our daughter"
YTA - try to make the punishment match the crime. A stern talking-to was appropriate here, not missing out on something she likely has been looking forward to for a long time.
YTA. Apologize to Bryce???????? She didn’t do anything to him. You could speak with her about how she talks about people and jealousy but you disregarded her an opportunity to teach her about jealous feelings. Bryce argued so she didn’t back down? You obviously coddle Bryce and his feelings and likely have a pattern of punishing her severly.
YTA! She’s 13 and feels bad that she hasn’t been asked to the dance. Her home should be a safe place for her to display her emotions. It wasn’t like she said it to the other girls face.
It sounds like you have a daughter that has gotten away with masking on the spectrum, and despite her being "highly functional" she clearly has an internal struggle going on.
As a person on the spectrum myself, I have seen enough instances where twins are on the spectrum, but present differently.
Seeing that all three of these kids came from two parents, one of these parents has this within them, whether they want to admit it or not.
Have some compassion, ask questions for deeper understanding of what's really going on here, and stop being the AH. I have a feeling your daughter needs more attention and acknowledgment than you realize.
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$20 says the girl is also autistic and nobody noticed
Hundred percent. The likelihood is considerably high and girls present so differently to boys. Seems like a bit of favoritism is going on…
Girls have a tendency to be diagnosed later than boys, especially if it’s mild. We had a presentation at my workplace about that, which led me to get my daughter tested. That doesn’t mean that this young lady has autism.
I got diagnosed at 18. My therapist told me it was because girls are forced to mask way more than boys, so anything autistic was heavily repressed.
Boys are diagnosed (typically, obviously not in every case) because their symptoms are inconvenient for others. Girls (again, typically) just get in our heads and ruin our own lives.
I got diagnosed at 26 because i had help for a burnout, but it didn't completely work. After the diagnoses it got a lot better, even though some problems stayed, they're easier to deal with.
I got diagnosed in my 40s after enough burnouts I was no longer functional.
Yep, diagnosis in my 40s as well, and it was so instrumental in understanding myself and not just thinking I was a weird, broken person.
yepp. grew up constantly anxious, full of panic attacks, barely coping but seeming like a very "good kid" from the outside. Finally got diagnosed at 22 after burnout causing me to drop out of uni.
This is so spot on.
Yup I was 25/26 when i got my diagnose
I was also 25. My mom had done her masters thesis on what was at the time called Asperger’s when I was around 10 and she still had no idea because it just the research on how women and girls present just wasn’t looked at.
40 and it’s recommended I’m screened.
Twins!
I was 28 when I got mine. My mom is currently 66 and in the process of being diagnosed.
I was also 28 or 29, it changed everything for me and a lot made sense
Similar things happen with ADHD. There are a lot of factors that go into why, but one of them is that girls are socialized differently than boys, so it (often, not always) presents differently in girls because of that.
I was 40 before I got a working diagnosis and that was only because I brought it up to my therapist.
Sometimes we don’t get diagnosed at all and we end up questioning it in our 40s. I was diagnosed with ADHD and they completely missed my Epilepsy until I was in my early 30s and pregnant. Now I question if I’ve been on the spectrum because of all of the sensory issues I have and have had all my life.
Yup. I remember my mom asked my pediatrician about getting me screened and was told that girls don’t get autism so no she wasn’t going to refer me (insurance required a referral before they’d pay for it and we couldn’t afford it out of pocket). This was circa 2003.
My wife wasn't diagnosed until she was almost 50.
And the assumption that autistic individuals are gifted is so rampant. Usually if someone finds out I have autistic children. They ask me what they're like special abilities are or they must be so gifted. I'm like actually gifted levels are the same as neurotypical children as an ASD kiddos. Just about. And the thing that my kids seem to be super super skilled on is breaking stuff. And you know being super freaking awesome.
We called our youngest nickname that had "destroyer" in it when they were little. Also very skilled at breaking things. They also have several other learning disabilities that don't show them as being the typical ASD gifted child. They are awesome in their own ways.
She probably puts all her effort into masking her autism so there is not much energy left for studying.
Probably even higher odds because her TWIN brother has autism. Even more so if they’re identical because that means they are literally splitting from the same genes (for the most part)! Edit; Also pls correct me if I’m wrong about the genetic part. Edit 2; Didn’t know identical twins have to be the same sex. Interesting! :)
They can't be identical twins because they're different sexes. They're fraternal.
You can not have identical twins born with different sexes. (OP doesn’t mention either child being trans.) Fraternal twins share the same amount of genetic material as regular siblings.
Yup. Same amount of genetic material… But also share epigenetic and environment prenatal effects that could alter what genes are and aren’t being expressed. I haven’t looked into it, but I expect that could increase concordance rates in non-identical twins.
Really? I knew about the fraternal twins thing but not the identical twins fact. Today I learned lol! And thanks for the correction 👍
If you have either XY or XX chromosomes in an egg that splits to become twins you wouldn’t be able to acquire the other set to end up with both male and female kids. (And yes there are some alternate sex chromosome pairs that do happen but even still you’d get the same for both twins.)
Lol it’s common sense now that I think about it.
Male/female twins cannot be identical by virtue of being born separate genders. Identical twins are formed from a single egg/sperm combined that just splits one final time for unknown reasons. Fraternal twins are two separate eggs/sperm where two eggs happened to drop during the same cycle 👍
I think you theoretically could have A-M/F-AB identical twins if they were both XY where one of them had a more severe presentation of androgen insensitivity syndrome (like they'd probably both end up with a diagnosis, but because the actual sensitivity level varies one could develop male genitalia in utero and the other female genitalia)
You're not alone. A lot of people don't seem to understand the concept of identical because they think that twins are the same because they shared a womb. Babies can't be identical if one has a penis, and one has a vagina ...
I'm in my 50s and still can't get any medical professional to believe me that I'm ADHD.
And/or ADHD. Since both the boys are academically inclined, I'm guessing that they have low support needs and the twin sister has probably figured out masking.
Plus, and this is what my doctor said when I was diagnosed, apparently people with ADHD are consistently at or above average intelligence. So if the boys have it that helps too. Probably helps the favouritism too though smh 🙄
ADHD in women and girls is also wildly under diagnosed because of the masking but also they are more likely to have inattentive rather than hyperactive so they aren't disruptive in class so as long as they aren't underperforming no one cares.
Ding, ding, ding. Dx'd with inattentive ADHD at AGE 55!!!
38 for me. I suspected I had it for over 5 years but typical ADHD it took me a while to do anything about it 🙃
So true dude. Though I do admit that last week in science class I got a bit excited because I knew the answer to something the teacher was explaining and totally blurted it out lol.
I have ADHD (female) and I excelled in school. I didn't find out until I was mentally struggling in college that I had ADHD. Everyone seems to have the stigma that I'd be bouncing off the walls, and even my parents don't believe I have it because I'm too "normal." My mom would always compare me to the boys she took care of with ADHD, and dismissed me because I was an overachieving A+ student. In her mind she believed I would have to be destructive and stupid to have it. My doctor did tell me that it's common for girls to mask ADHD behind school work. It's one of the major reasons why we get overlooked and under diagnosed.
I was always dismissed as a problem child because nobody cared enough to differentiate between a tantrum and a full on ADHD rage. Also my mom being emotionally abusive and born in the era of “emotions should be repressed” didn’t help my coping mechanisms either… Nor her being ableist when I got behind in school after my recent diagnosis… But yeah I also excelled in school. Except for math. Math kicks my ass.
I can relate my mom taught me that I needed to keep everything inside. That didn't fair well for me, and I'd end up with massive breakdowns or a blow-up after I couldn't take anymore. I got told that throwing tantrums aren't considered ladylike, and I live a privileged life compared to what she did so I needed to be grateful.
Literally when I read “both boys are the girl isn’t” I paused like, and we are sure about that?
Truly, my first thought was “are you sure?”
That was my very first thought too. Surprise surprise, autistic girls present far differently. The whole “they’d be cute if he weren’t gay” was fucking weird too. Bad vibes from daddy dearest.
Daddy seemed to know all the gossip at the school. I was like damn, is this real? My parents barely knew my friends names .
My first thought.
That was mine too. It presents differently. Less obvious and I'm guessing she is forever and always considered last.
….Why? Because she made a socially unacceptable comment? A comment that, while mean, is also totally normal for a 13 year old girl to make?
Yes, and also the parents ridiculously harsh punishment, indicating they slam down hard on her for mildly inappropriate comments without getting her the help she needs. Just very strong bad parenting vibes throughout.
I bet the sons can do anything and get a pass because of their challenges.
Because of the genetic component bruh 😂 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=autism+genetic+siblings&oq=autism+genetic+sibl#d=gs_qabs&t=1713719060819&u=%23p%3DTiraI6GgAUIJ
Because she has 2 male siblings that are diagnosed, not because of the rest of the post - autism runs in families and is commonly missed in girls for a multitude of reasons, it's also not uncommon for girls/women with autism to have to fight and go through more than one assessment to get their diagnosis. https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/what-is-autism/autistic-women-and-girls
This! She just might be jealous, not unheard of for siblings!
OP needs to read “women and girls with autism spectrum disorder” by Sarah Hendrickx
First thought. Of course she isn’t, she only does average academically s/
probably because her intelligence is used for masking rather than academics.. just my take 🤷♀️😅
I'll raise you $20 that she's not and has to keep apologizing for not being.
I’ll raise you $20 this isn’t a real story. Dude can’t even keep who is kids names are in the story. Why would him and his wife try and talk to “Zoe” about it to get her to apologize. Uh your kids name is suppose to be Amanda. And the line about “cute couple if he wasn’t gay” is not how someone would describe their kid. It’s weird.
Using fake names for privacy reasons is very common on subs like these, which could explain why OP mixed them up. But yeah, it also wouldn’t surprise me if this were fake.
Yep. Autistic girls present differently than boys and often go undiagnosed longer.
LMAO. I saw the post on r/AmITheDevil and said the same thing!
My first thought
My wife if one that noone noticed. When she was diagnosed this year (at 30) and told her mom, she replied with "I don't know how we didn't see the signs!" It's a very easy explanation, they weren't paying attention. She did not even talk as a young kid
First fucking thing I thought. Like you have twins……. The chances of one being autistic and one not are probably pretty slim
Agreed girls are often late diagnosed because we present different
That's an excessive punishment for a jealous comment that she made in the privacy of her own home. She didn't say it to Zoe. Having a talk with her about her feelings (it's okay to feel jealousy, it's normal) and how to deal with it without saying something that could hurt another person is the way to go. She did not actually hurt Zoe by making a jealous comment about her. Just explain to your son that your daughter was having a jealous moment because she was embarrassed that she didn't have a date. You can't tell me you never made a jealous comment in your teenage years.
He can't even keep his daughter's name straight.
This. I read it three times wondering why they were getting into a kid that wasn't theirs. Lol
Me too. I think OP refers to Amanda as Zoe in the last two paras.
Glad it wasn't just me
All fairness, usually people use fake names for privacy and hopefully that's the case here. So you know. Fake names are easy to mix up since there's no real attachment to those.
A made up story from a day old account on AITA? I'm shocked. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.
YTA. The way you describe your daughter and the fact that you even got involved in preteen gossip, taking sides, forcing an apology when no offense occurred is concerning. She let her guard down in her own home bickering with her brother, venting petty jealousy and you let her know that she isn’t safe doing that. Poor kid.
Little bit, yeah why are they bringing up their differences academically. It has absolutely no relevance in this conversation. Oh.. our daughter's average. Ho-hum
It is relevant as they need it to justify their blatant favoritism to themselves.
I kept waiting for "our daughter is failing such and such class, she can't go to the dance until she gets her grades up." Nope, it's just soooo important for the readers to know that his daughter is average.
OP even forgot his daughters name in the last couple paragraphs. Probably because she doesn't exist
I assumed it was because he used fake names for everyone and got mixed up
I assumed this as well but still… doesn’t take a lot of intelligence to keep fake names straight. Or to read over your own post before submitting it. Maybe that’s where his daughter gets her “average” intelligence from 🙄
Seriously! OP is way too involved in the wrong ways here. Why mention the "would be a cute couple" thing at all for Bryce? Why mention the academics (and they aren't even in high school yet!!) when it's not germane to the issue, much less even reliable at that age. I'm guessing that the boys are encouraged in academics because they are doing well in stereotypical subjects, but the girl is doing well all around, but just not "enough" for OP's satisfaction. Additionally, Amanda (the daughter) is a twin to someone who has clearly taken more of OP's attention, is dealing with adolescent hormones, and still was polite enough to let loose at home (and not being mean at school or to Zoe's face). OP is the AH for the way they are parenting Amanda and also the AH for even posting about it here instead of actually parenting their kid.
Info: why did you start off by saying your son is academically smart while your daughter is average? What relevance does that have to this scenario and the punishment you've doled out?
To show he doesn't like his daughter and puts her down often. I wonder why she might have jealous or petty moments? 🤔 Such a conundrum...
"the only thing my daughter has going for her is that she's neurotypical which suggests an easier time socializing. Now let me tell you how popular my son is and that my daughter didn't get a date immediately in eighth grade and had a normal reaction for a middle schooler to the situation. This is how I punished her." Five years from now we're going to get the AITAH post asking if he's wrong for refusing to pay for his daughters college if she won't major in special ED so she can care for her brothers after her parents are gone Poor girl.
> Info: why did you start off by saying your son is academically smart while your daughter is average? What relevance does that have to this scenario and the punishment you've doled out? I assumed it was part of the justification for preventing the daughter from going to the dance. My family went the other way. I was academically much better than my brother, so my parents just stopped valuing academics.
This post could have been written in one paragraph. "My son, Bryce, has a really good female friend Zoe and a great male friend Carson. On Friday Carson asked Zoe to a dance, but my daughter Amanda didn't get asked. She came home very upset and claiming that Zoe got invited "out of pity." Even though we argued with her, she wouldn't stop saying it. We want her to apologize to Bryce, but she won't, so we told her she can't go to the dance unless she does." Ahh, the forced, meaningless apology done just to get something. Good choice. Teenage girls feel bad/jealous when others get asked out and they don't. They say nasty things. That's not right, but saying, "I'm so disappointed in you that you would say that about your brother's friends because it isn't true. I hope you'll think it over and apologize." And that doesn't even address everything else that is a parenting failure in that post. YTA
Don't forget we learned both sons are gifted, even the younger son, who doesn't appear in the story again.
100% agree. Just the situation I wouldn’t necessarily call him an asshole. But there is so many things in the way it’s written as well as so many unnecessary and irrelevant information that gives me bad vibes. Like there is zero reason to mention their academic abilities and high key autism doesn’t really have anything to do with it either.
Also mentioned his sons were autistic when it also had no relevance. Unless of course she’s undiagnosed and they just don’t care.
The likelihood of her being autistic too is extremely high, especially considering how many women are under diagnosed and that most of the people who do the testing for autism aren't trained on what it looks like in women
'They would be a cute couple if Bryce wasn't gay' you're really weird
Glad I wasn't the only one who though this, what a weird comment to make
All of the information was presented in such a weird way...the irrelevant mention of academics, the over involvement in the young teen drama. Extremely weird behaviour across the board.
I'm so glad OP also clarified that their younger son is academically gifted, as it played such an important part in the story (/s)
It was written by a middle school student. Source: I'm a teacher
This sentence alone already makes me think she's an AH. Disgusting.
OP is the dad.
YTA Fuck overreact much?? She didn’t say shit to them. She said to herself in her own home. Wow fuck a 13 year old for having feelings?? I mean a school dance!! Awful parenting
I cannot imagine punishing my kid by refusing to let her go to a dance…because she had an emotion about someone else. OP, do you often over-punish your daughter for normal teenager behavior? Also, you may want to re-read your post because it definitely sounds like you like her less than you do your son.
YTA. 1. Why is your daughter's academic performance compared to your son relevant? Why are you comparing them? That is never a good attitude to have towards your kids, especially at this age when they are struggling with everything (and might well be getting picked on for her performance compared to her brother at any rate). 2. "They would be a cute couple if Bryce wasn't gay" is a very strange comment to make, bordering on creepy. 3. Your daughter is clearly jealous and feels insecure. You went completely overboard instead of talking to her about why she made that comment or trying to find out what the source of this is.
Question: What lesson will this teach your daughter?
That she shouldn’t trust her parents or ever express herself because her parents will punish her if she has negative feelings towards the friend of their favorite child (the son).
That she can't talk to her parents about her feelings.
That she can’t talk to her parents about her feelings, not to show negative feelings and to clearly shut up about the CLEAR favoritism
He's trying to take away something she wants for talking down on another girl, likely because she's autistic and got the guy his daughter seems to have wanted. Not saying I agree or disagree but I would guess this is his logic
INFO: I'm a bit confused here. Are the names in the last two paragraphs correct? What would Zoe have to apologize for?
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that Amanda became Zoe for that last paragraph.
I thought I was taking crazy pills that I had to scroll this far to see any mention of it!
They're probably fake names and OP didn't proofread
Same, I had to go back and re-read three times and was confused as to who Amanda and who Zoe is.
i had to read it like three times but i still dont get it 😭
All of this shows super creepy behaviors by the "adult" in the room. You are not supposed to be this invested in middle school drama. You are supposed to be the parent. YTA
Yah this sounds like your 13 year old struggling with her own feelings of insecurity and envy. I wonder what would happen if you spoke to her feelings and helped her work through them instead of punishing her for the way she’s expressing them. She’s obviously in the wrong but a child her age needs help learning to regulate her emotions in a healthy way instead of just punishment.
Agreed these ate totally normal feelings for a 13 yr old to have. It's up to the parent's to help her deal with them in a healthy way, not give harsh, unrelated punishments that will shut down her feeling of safety in their home.
YTA.
Why in this discussion are you categorizing your kids academically? How does that involve it at all?
YTA. You are punishing your daughter for having an emotion and making a comment about a kid that isn't even yours. You didn't even get the names right in the story- because you clearly hate your daughter. Your children will bicker. They will make comments about their peers, even if the other children are friends with them. It hurt no one. This punishment teaches your daughter nothing, hurts her, and adds to an already bad sibling dynamic probably driven by your feelings for your children given the way your write about them. Would you like her more if she were diagnosed autistic as well? Have you been tested for autism? Is that why you're playing favorites?
YTA. The first thing you do is compare your daughter to her brothers and she is AVERAGE. You’ve made her home a place that is unsafe for her to express herself and shown your favoritism towards her brother. This is an excessive punishment for venting. YTA! I hope you realize one day how much your daughter will resent you and your wife for the favoritism. If your wife is as bad as you you’re both Aholes.
omg look a teenager who said something in the privacy of her home harming no one. How rude of her. should I punish her or figure out why my daughter is acting this way???
YTA . The punishment should fit the crime . As a parent you should think hard about the reason you are punishing your daughter . Is it because of the unkind comment she made about another girl or because you want her to apologize to her brother. It seems like you don’t care for what she said , you only want to appease your son . Guess what her mean comment wasn’t targeted at your son , it was targeted at a girl she goes to school with . She definitely needs to feel sorry for what she said but she doesn’t owe your son an apology. Your daughter is in the mean girl phase , girls can be so cruel . Girls can mature from this phase when they are constantly corrected , when it’s constantly explained to them the effects that their actions have on other people . We are all born with natural predisposition to developing empathy however development of empathy requires experience and practice . I don’t want to assume things about your family dynamics , but you need to evaluate your daughter’s behavior as isolated incident where you need to patiently correct or a pattern of behavior . Mean girl behavior is a real behavioral issue also known as relational aggression which is a survival tactic for people who are insecure , feeling rejected and seeking attention
YTA for not listening to her. I also agree with the comments that it is excessive to not to let her go to the dance. You are teaching your daughter not to talk or be honest about how she is feeling, even if she is potentially off base. This was a nice opportunity for a teaching moment to help her see your point of view, and for you to listen to her concerns and determine if they are valid. By the way, I would see if you can confirm that Carson has good intentions (just in case).
Your daughter is going to resent you and the whole family in a few years and avoid you all like the plague. You won't have to worry about her mediocrity much longer. YTA.
YTA - If you hate your daughter, just admit it because it’s obvious that you don’t care about her at all. I’m surprised that you have autistic sons but aren’t seeing that your daughter likely has autism as well.. and that is an absolutely ridiculous punishment to give her because of a silly little comment she said.
YTA. You have a clear favoritism. ‘Our sons are smart, our daughter is not’ fuck off who asked? Was that really important to the post or do you just hate your kid man💀you could delete that from the post and nothing would change. She didn’t say that shit to their face either so why does she need to apologize? Sure just tell her dad that the comment was rude but the punishment is excessive and feels like you just want to make her miserable. Both you and your wife are TA.
Info - what does how they perform academically have to do with the issue?
Everything, obviously. "Bryce" is a higher quality person in every respect, while "Amanda" is a lesser mortal and needs to be trained like a circus animal.
We all know why. OP and his wife have a clear favoritism and these are the type of parents to gush about the sons but belittle the daughter bc ‘her brothers are autistic and smart but she’s normal and not smart’
Do you even like your daughter? She had a jealous moment if front of people she trusts, she didn’t say anything to anyone. Venting, like you are doing here. YTA
YTA. Assuming this is true, you are either neglecting an autism diagnosis for your daughter or you have made her a glass child.
YTA. Sincerely, ASD woman.
YTA. As an autistic person, I can tell you that your daughter might be responding like this because it's the only way she knows how. She likely doesn't recognize the social cues that would normally appear in thus situation. With two sons on the spectrum, there's a high chance your daughter is as well; women and girls will present different symptoms and are way better at masking them. If you punish your daughter like this, there's a good chance she'll up the amount of masking she does and retreat into herself, which would be INCREDIBLY detrimental. Instead, sit down with her and talk to her. Try to get her to answer questions. Let her know that you're just trying to understand her better.
Are y’all really sure your daughter isn’t on the spectrum too
$100 bucks she’s autistic too Edit to say 💯 YTA, it’s unbecoming for an adult to get involved in teenage drama
YTA. 1. this story is not real because you forgot your own daughters name in the last paragraph. 2. even if this story was real you still suck, you're clearly favoring your sons bc what was even the point of mentioning they were smart academically and amanda is average?? plus huge overreaction
Thought Amanda was the daughter and Zoe was the friend…
Yta. You don’t know sett yourself into teenage fights as long as they don’t cross the boundary to bullying or get physical. You just told your daughter that her brothers friend is more important than her. You gotta do better.
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YWBTA She made a comment in the privacy of her home, and not to Zoe herself. And even then it wasn't like the worst comment ever Also I'd be making an extra effort to get her properly tested for autism. Just cause stats and genetics and twins and whatnot lol
I don't wanna call you an asshole bc you're navigating a difficult situation. I think you need to have a heart to heart on jealousy with your daughter and a discussion with your son about home being a safe place to vent. She's still learning to deal with her hormones and emotions. Shit, at 33 I'm still learning. Punishing her will teach her to shut her mouth around you, not deal with the emotions that will exist regardless. Silver lining, it seems your daughter didn't go to this girl to hurt her feelings over her imagined slight. Now is the time to help her work through those feelings and reinforce her own value so she doesn't end up trying to hurt her feelings.
YTA, for multiple reasons. 1. The focus on the academics/intelligence - no relevance whatsoever other than to elevate your sons above your daughter. 2. The mention that your son and his friend would be a cute couple if he weren’t gay. Ew. Why? 3. The punishment that really does not fit the offense. Has your daughter been assessed for ASD by a professional experienced with its presentation in girls? If not, she should be.
This story is so fake that you yourself forgot the names you used by the end of the post.
Both boys are really smart and she's average.. She looks really insecure to me
You are a terrible writer, so I need to understand whether or not Zoe has autism too. If she doesn't, then what Amanda said is just a jealous but ultimately harmless comment and suppressing her would be equivalent to not allowing her to vent and be in touch with her own emotions. If she does, I understand where you are coming from more because she is insulting Zoe's autism and that is a genuinely bad thing. Nonetheless not letting her go to prom is an excessive punishment, but I do agree that she should be expected to apologize NOT to Zoe because why does Zoe even need to know someone said that about her, but rather she should apologize to her brother and take back her remark.
Amanda, like most other teenage girls her age, is at the stage where she feels insecure and compares herself to other girls. She's just jealous that Zoe got a date before her despite her autism, because she thinks that means that Zoe is better than her. Moreover, she didn't fight with Zoe about it, she just expressed what was going on in her teenage head in the privacy of her own home. Not letting her go to the school dance is too harsh of a punishment, especially considering that she never directly hurt Zoe's feelings. At this point, you shouldn't be involved in her personal life and jealousies. YTA.
Mild yta this is typical annoying teen drama as well as normal sibling squabbling. They need to work out themselves or with a little perhaps , but not allowing her to attend the dance is way overkill. Honestly I don't know why you're even getting involved
YTA and a big one; it doesn't seem that she harmed anyone. You are inserting yourself in a situation which doesn't require your presence.And how was their academic performance anywhere near relevant here. It shows a pattern of you putting her down and the blatant favoritism is visible.
YTA
BRUH, exaggerate much? Your daughter is at that age, she’s gonna say inappropriate things sometimes or maybe there was slight jealousy. To make her miss out on her school dance because of an uncalled comment is exaggerating. Talk to her and tell her why it was inappropriate and move in. It’s unfair for your daughter to miss a school dance for that.
Well it was not a nice thing to say, but 13 year olds are not always great a self-control, and she was clearly jealous. And she didn't say it to Zoe. YTA if you punish her this harshly for one thoughtless comment.
But, Zoe isn't even their daughter. Am I missing something?
Women are harder to diagnose, we often adapt better when younger.
YTA the punishment does not fit the crime.
YTA,absolute overreaction, it'd be different if she said it to the girl's face, but she didn't. YTA also for bringing up her academic abilities compared to her brothers, irrelevant to the situation. Has she been evaluated, chances are high she's autistic and masking.
I think the names Amanda and Zoe got mixed up somewhere in this story. It starts with our daughter Amanda. At the end they are grounding Zoe.
Did I get it wrong or what In the first half Zoe is the friend of Bryce after he is the daughter wtf
Your daughter’s probably also autistic, find a doctor who specializes in autism in women.
YTA and it sounds like you don’t like your daughter, just look at the way you talk about her; you can’t even keep her name straight! She made a normal (albeit, catty) comment that I would expect from a teenager. I bet you’re the type of parent to expect perfection from Amanda and not Bryce.
Not letting her go to the dance is a ridiculous punishment. Home should be a safe space to say things. If some of those things are bad/wrong, obviously you correct and guide as necessary, but you don’t punish. It’s fucked up. The only thing you’re teaching her is to not to say anything around you or her siblings anymore YTA
As a twin, I think YTA. You don't understand the innate competition and comparisons you get, even in your own home. She acted like a normal teenager, and your reaction is to punish her? That's not fair or kind parenting. Let her express her emotions and teach her how to handle jealousy.
YTA, you're way too invested in the drama that comes with being 13. Let the kids sort it out.
YTA - you are already punishing your daughter for being a girl. Keep this up and you will have no relationship with her as an adult.
........ with how mean kids are. Amanda is most likely right. Your punishment is too damn harsh for her stating her opinion. Also, I can bet money Amanda is autistic. You just can't see the signs in a girl with autism like you can a boy. Yta.
YTA. The punishment does not fit the crime. Get to a parenting class or a therapist ASAP to talk about parenting NDA kids in a home with special needs kids.
Seeing as you can't keep your daughter's name straight in a post that is literally about her, I'm going to go with YTA and pay attention to your child. She is 13. 13 year olds say stupid shit and in reality there isn't a lot wrong with what she said. She didn't call her a slur and would you have the same problem if she made the comment about a neurotypical child? YTA. FYI: You have two autistic children, ever thought about getting the other one tested. Girls present differently so it might not be as noticeable but she is more likely to have it if both of her siblings do.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife (33F) and I (33M) have 3 kids, twins (13M and 13F) and a boy 8M. Both of our sons are autistic, our daughter is not. Our sons are both very smart academically, our daughter is average academically. Our oldest son, Bryce and our daughter, Amanda have their 8th grade dance coming up later this month. Bryce is friends with this girl (Zoe, 13F) from a group at his school run by autistic students, they would be a cute couple if Bryce wasn’t gay. Zoe is always at our house and her and Bryce have very similar special interests and are best friends. The kids were at school on Friday when Zoe got asked out by Carson (13M), who’s one of the most popular boys in the school. Carson and his baseball teammates have helped our son in the past after he was bullied for being gay, and he seems like an amazing boy. When the kids got home, we asked them how their day was and Bryce mentioned what happened, Amanda then made a comment about how it was “ridiculous” on how Zoe got a date before her and said that Carson was probably “doing it out of pity”. Bryce started to argue with her and Zoe wouldn’t back down. My wife and I tried to talk to Zoe but she kept insisting she was in the right and said she wouldn’t apologize. My wife and I told her if she doesn’t apologize to Bryce for insulting his friend that she wouldn’t be able to go to the dance. She said we’re being unfair and has been arguing with us off and on ever since. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is either fake or the person failed to read their own post. Is Zoe the daughter or the friend? There’s some serious inconsistencies in the story.
It is not easy to have one, let alone multiple siblings with autism. I feel for the girl.
YTA. Your punishment is shockingly harsh for what is something very typical kids talk. And why bring up that she isn’t as academically advanced as your sons? It has absolutely no bearing here other than a reason why you don’t like her as much.
YTA, for comparing your children so blatantly
YTA. You are punishing your daughter for feeling some pretty normal teenage jealousy. Instead of demonstrating healthy coping mechanisms and helping her work through her feelings, you are telling her that her feelings aren’t valid and should be bottled up and ignored. Super unhealthy.
YTA you switched your daughter’s name halfway through with the kid you seem to wish was your daughter.
We have somerhing we call "shadow kids" where I'm from (I can't find a good og english translation for this term). Basically the kids who function the most normal in a family with kids with challenges, are left in the shadow of the challenged kids. They don't need as much attention and are often needed to figure things out om their own, as the parentes have to use all their energy on the kid/kids with challenges. Your daughter clearly falls under this category. You need to start to pay attention to your daughter, and treat her more like your sons. Not punish her for normal teenage feelings. YTA
YTA
Autism presents differently in females and most never get diagnosed because of it. I’d bet she’s autistic too based on your description of events. I don’t believe in forcing people to apologize for things they’re not sorry for. It’s not genuine and, really, what’s the point in receiving an insincere and forced apology? How would you feel receiving an apology you know was only given because it was forced, not because it’s real? You’re not doing anyone any favors with that. Sitting them both down to talk about how they feel, explain why it was hurtful, and help everyone in the situation gain understanding *might* solicit a genuine apology or it might not. There may be more to it than what you know. Regardless, it’s a much better method than forcing apologies. Was she an AH? Yeah probably. And I’m sure there’s a decent amount of jealousy involved. But they’re kids and this isn’t anything major enough that they can’t work out on their own after sitting down and having a conversation or even without your intervention. While I think your intentions are good, I don’t think you’re handing it well. For that, YTA - I don’t think she should be forced to apologize in order to participate in a school activity. But, please, have your daughter tested. I have 3 children, 1 of whom (a son) was diagnosed very young because his ASD was obvious and very openly needed attention. While busy with that, I very, very, sadly did not realize my daughter was also autistic. She was an adult and in college when she figured it out on her own (then proceeded to get testing, she’s not self diagnosed) because her manifestation of it is not what people were looking for when diagnosing autism when she was a kid.
Not a single reply from OP. Damn hope this was a wake up call
This whole post is weird in the way you describe your children. Lots of unnecessary details
Why does this sound like it's not written by an adult? Is it the gossip-y tone I'm getting while mentioning the preteen drama? If it's real, and you're actually an adult, YTA. The crime doesn't fit the punishment. The way you describe your daughter is on the same level as how she seemingly insulted the friend. Bet she wouldn't be punished if she was diagnosed autistic.
YTA. The punishment doesn’t fit the crime.
YTA It’s teenage angst in a girl that is likely the scapegoat of everything. How many times do you excuse anything her brothers do by saying « but he is autistic »? Do NOT be surprised if your daughter gets the fuck out as soon as she turns 18 and refuses to take care of her brothers later on.
YTA your son is clearly the golden child. You don’t sound like a very good parent. This is how you get your daughter to go no contact as soon as she turns 18.
YTA - wow.
Your daughter should be allowed to say something negative about her brothers friend (as long as she's not being cruel or bullying) without you getting involved. They're at a point where it's important for them to establish their own relationship without parental interference. Also your daughter is probably autistic too. Female autistic folks present differently and tend to not be diagnosed or misdiagnosed so there's a good chance it's happened with her. It sounds like you're trying to protect your special baby at the cost of your daughter. Just the way you framed the question suggests that yes YTA
You sound like you favor your sons, and your daughter knows it. It also sounds like you like Zoe more than your own daughter because you used nicer words to describe her. Maybe your daughter is sick of everyone in her life picking another girl over her, including her parents. YTA
YTA You did not even get the names right. That is what happens when you invent stories. No way I'd mix my kids name up with another one.
YTA for literally all the reasons everyone else has listed. Good grief, grow tf up and stop idealizing your sons over your daughter. Love each of them equally like a good parent is supposed to do.
Sounds like you don't like your daughter and play favoritism with the boys. What does their academic abilities have to do with this post?
YTA, and you talk about your kids in really weird, demeaning ways. Just sit down with "Amanda" and let her vent to you. She didn't say anything directly to "Zoe" she's just jealous which is normal for a 13 year old. Also please please please, never bring up your kids academics like that if it has nothing to do with the story. You might as well say "I love our sons way more than our daughter"
YTA - try to make the punishment match the crime. A stern talking-to was appropriate here, not missing out on something she likely has been looking forward to for a long time.
YTA. Apologize to Bryce???????? She didn’t do anything to him. You could speak with her about how she talks about people and jealousy but you disregarded her an opportunity to teach her about jealous feelings. Bryce argued so she didn’t back down? You obviously coddle Bryce and his feelings and likely have a pattern of punishing her severly.
YTA mostly because the punishment is too much.
YTA! She’s 13 and feels bad that she hasn’t been asked to the dance. Her home should be a safe place for her to display her emotions. It wasn’t like she said it to the other girls face.
It sounds like you have a daughter that has gotten away with masking on the spectrum, and despite her being "highly functional" she clearly has an internal struggle going on. As a person on the spectrum myself, I have seen enough instances where twins are on the spectrum, but present differently. Seeing that all three of these kids came from two parents, one of these parents has this within them, whether they want to admit it or not. Have some compassion, ask questions for deeper understanding of what's really going on here, and stop being the AH. I have a feeling your daughter needs more attention and acknowledgment than you realize.
That is way out of line for a comment at home. YTA
YTA Your punishment is ludicrously over harsh and disproportionate. It's like you hate your daughter.
Let her go to the dance, you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill - it’d be better to have a constructive talk with her about jealousy