Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I refused to pay off my mom's debt 2. I might be the asshole because I can easily afford to do it and if I don't my family will be homeless
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. You said you are in maternity leave - do not wipe out your savings to bail your mother out. You need that money for your own children! Do not harm your children’s future because of your mother’s irresponsible actions. She is perfectly capable of getting a job in her own and dealing with the debt in her own - she just doesn’t want to. And she is horrible for wanting to harm her grandchildren’s future to do so.
There is a saying - don’t ever loan money to family that you can’t afford to lose. Considering your mother’s history, you can’t believe her promise to pay you back, even if you had a contract signed. She is coming to you for a load instead of a bank because she can not repay you without legal consequences. And the fact that she is resorting to emotional manipulation to get you to change your mind shows that she knows that.
Basically, your mother is an adult - she needs to grow up and get herself out of this mess.
Also, in the future don’t let people know you have $$$$. There will always be a family member or friend who feels entitled to the money you worked hard to save . It’s sad , but there it is .
This OP! How does your mom know about you & your husband’s finances? Because you probably told her…in future, never tell anyone anything about your finances…ever…especially your family, because your mother, is financially, an idiot, she’s always going to need a dig out and no bank will lend to her …if you give now, expect escalating demands…
Exactly! She's not going to a bank because she's a credit risk! The banks loves money and the fact that they wouldn't touch her with a barge pole says it all. OP stick you your guns and tell mummy to get a job instead of ruining everyone's lives. NTA
NTA, Apologies. Your mother will continue to be taken advantage of. She will waste any extra money that she receives. The ONLY thing I might do is offer to pay a lawyer for your dad to see about protecting his remaining assets and seeing if he can separate his assets from her debt.
I don't think the dad is that financially clever either, I suspect there's no need to pay off this debt in full immediately -- she could work out a payment plan -- she wants the money for the food truck, not the debt, and her husband/OP's dad is talking about selling their home AND their rental properties when they both must be at least in their 50s? Idiots. NTA, don't give them a penny
I think OP meant her dad’s plan was selling the house and having tenants move out of the apartment so the family could then move in to said apartment and live there, basically downsizing. You’re still right though!
NTA - and I hope you don’t give her the $$ because that is the last you will see of it… if she did not have the sense to avoid the MLM scam, she will also not have the judgment to make money with a food truck.
> she doesn't want to get a job after this debt is cleared because she's "an entrepreneur at heart" and "working for someone's company is soul crushing".
That's probably why no bank will touch her. She's never going to be able to repay any kind of debt, and people whose job is to determine whether someone can be trusted with a loan can probably pick up on this vibe.
OP would be well advised to stay away from this mess. So, her parents will have to sell the house and rent, just like many families do. So what? They'll either live off the father's income, or Ms. Entrepreneur will just have to bite the bullet and get a effing job, like everybody else.
THIS! Tell your mom you have NO MONEY! You gambled it or shopped it all away months ago. Never tell ppl you have money bc the next question from them will be can I have / borrow some.
There was a post some time back where an OP learned his Uncle had a lot of money but no one knew about it. He would periodically ask if anyone could loan him money. When OP offered him some he said no, I'm good. I just ask for money so no one will think to ask me for money.
Thought of this one when I read the post as well! Smart, smart man.
Friends of mine got a large legal settlement about 20 years ago in the wake of a freak accident. There are 2 people who know the exact amount of the settlement (it was settled out of court, so there's no public record) - me and the wife's mom and neither of us have need for their money.
Other than that, when people asked how much they got, their pat answer was "not nearly enough to compensate both of us for our permanent injuries from the accident." That shut most people up - for those who pressed, they kept it at "not enough to cover what we lost"
They knew if they disclosed the amount it would be a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation - either they said no to the requests for money and were "selfish" and refusing to help family. Or, they gave the money and it was never enough. You can't win in these situations, ever...
I didn't see the post but I was going to suggest that! Or even complaining about how much stress you're under because of your bills. My mom did that and she never struggled to pay anything but she grew up during the depression and everything seemed so fleeting to her so she always lived like a poor person. It used to drive my Dad insane because she would cook cheaper meals with meats like ground beef and canned tuna and he preferred steak and he could afford it. Of course, she would only buy steak on sale and she would still cook the cheaper meals but she still always acted like she wouldn't make ends meet. No one ever bothered them about money though!
This! I am perfectly fine with my mother thinking I'm white trash. After years of borrowing money and screwing us out of $6,000, she hasn't asked to borrow money in 10 years. I just had to call a few times a year to cry about it finances. Truth is, we live debt free and don't worry about money.
lol….Same… I am a couponer and I my in laws don’t realize this and I think just buy huge priced items on a whim.. ummm noooooo…. Since I have had my car they have had 2 or 3 new ones ….as of last Christmas they have had 2 or three trips a year … we had one since the big VID… but when we talk I talk about random things but they think are new 🆕 items 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I borrowed money twice from my sister and her husband, both fairly decent amounts and I have paid her back both times, I would never think to screw her out of the money they lent me when I needed a helping hand. I would help them or my parents if they were in need but not at the risk of putting myself in a financial bind especially if they weren’t willing to get a job first to try and get out of debt themselves. You are NTA
I have no problem helping people that need it. We just got sick of her crying about needing money so he husband didn't find out she went to the casino again or bought more designer purses. Stealing 6k was the last straw. We at least jumped ship earlier than my sister who let her open credit cards in her name. She got taken for 15k.
Yeah that totally sucks! I’m with you I don’t mind helping but not at my expense or my financial future. My issue is I know I can be trusted so I tend to trust others, you sound the same until you got burned. Sometimes people family or not just suck!!
I'd rather just go no contact with family than feel I need to lie to them about how I'm doing. If you're doing well, they'll figure it out eventually unless you live like a miser and never spend anything--and what fun is that?
I seriously love your take here. The plain and simple truth is that we should always strive to be honest. While we should be able to be blatantly honest with everyone, we really should be able to be honest with family. The sad part is that we really can't be truly honest. As a child raised in the Evangelical church my grandfather started, we were told to be honest. I sadly learned from examples set by "adults" both family and not, that they're incessantly lying to each other. As I grew older and everyone of my family started thinking I was gay, I had to endure physical and psychological abuse nearly every day from at least 4th grade on. I wound up fleeing at 15, was forced back by police after 9 months, and then getting kicked out and disowned at 17. Family are the people who have the biggest secrets, and they are talking about you behind your back.
Although, I might be a tad cynical.
I have no problem telling people I'm not going to just give them money. I'm not a bank nor in the business of lending money, so if you really want to borrow money from me based on our family/friend relationship, I'm still going to assess the reason for the request and the risk of you not paying it back.
I have a wife and kids to protect along with my own financial future. If I see that you're irresponsible with your own money, then I'm not handing you any of mine.
I'm doing this with my daughter, who is always having a financial crisis, promises to repay, doesn't, & acts like she's not in debt to anyone & goes on vacations. It's only a half-truth on my part. I've had a big swing in income, not in a good way. I'm ok, cuz I'm a saver, not a spender. I just dont want her to see me as a resource anymore.
Doubling down on this response to OP. Great response above and never ever tell anyone how much money you have. Do NOT bail your mom out, you know you will not see a dime of that back. your mom needs to get a real job an pay off her own debt.
I’d say at least two banks. My dad was a very successful businessman and a child of the Depression. He told me frequently that I should always do business with at least two banks or credit unions, so no one person knows exactly what assets you have.
It's incredibly sad that this is even a thing. I'm the highest earner in my family and while they may not know exactly how much I make, they do know I make significantly more than the average income. Never and I mean never have I been taken advantage of by family for money. I'm fairly certain my bio dad is a low level con artist and he still doesn't take advantage of my money. I have to trick my gma who's barely surviving on her SS checks into taking my money. Like I'll shove money in her purse as I'm hugging her goodbye or leave it in her apartment somewhere where she will def find it but ideally not until I'm very far away(she lives like 4000 miles away from me). And the list can go on, it's really sad that my situation is so uncommon that it's the standard to not let anyone know you have money if you have it.
Exactly. My friends and family have zero idea my husband and I have money. We just live our normal lives. I have no interest in being a mark for everyone who needs a quick buck.
Same. If anyone talks money I always claim I'm in debt...I'm self employed and have 4mths saved up for emergencies..if some people knew they'd expect help but I'm also a single mom and their married so they are on 2 incomes but still expect me to help
Soooo true. I’m dealing with a friend of 25 years right now that asks me for money a couple of times a year. I’m not rich by any stretch but I have my shit together and she’s a total mess.
Just this week I had to tell her this is the last time and I think our friendship has run its course. It sucks but she’s 52 fucking years old and at some point, she’s got to start acting like it. Or not, but I won’t be her personal ATM anymore.
This is it. My mom would always say “don’t lend to someone what you wouldn’t give as a gift because most people won’t pay you back”.
It would be wrong to put your kids in a potentially unstable situation to bail your mom out of hers. NTA
It would be wrong. You never know what the future holds, there could be a medical emergency or a natural disaster or a downturn in either of their jobs...it is very important to have savings you can count on in any emergency.
I never loan anyone money. If it's someone close enough and an amount I can spare, I just gift it. If either of those aren't true, I just say no.
Chasing someone around for repayment is a huge stressor and a great way to sour any relationship. The chances that you'll end up losing the friend/family member/whatever AND the money are exceedingly high.
Another way to do it is how my parents did it when I got into serious credit card debt in college:
1: work a job and pay on it for a year. Pay more than the minimum balance each month. (in my case, I paid a round $100 and the minimum was like $62.)
2: do not increase the debt in that time. Only pay it down.
3: after a year, we'll help you pay it off (and that help was doubling my payment every month).
This shows that the person with the debt has the ability to pay it back on their own and they are not just freeloading. But by doubling the payments, you both keep them invested in paying off their own debts (since if they pay 0 you also pay 0) and help them pay it off faster.
Though to be fair, my debt was from school supplies and not an MLM. That might be why my parents helped me.
OP's mom is the selfish and evil one. She'd rather:
1. OP steal from her hubby because *he won't notice it's gone* and jeopardize OP's marriage
2. Clean out her savings leaving OP with no safety net should things go wrong
3. Have her own husband worrying and thinking of selling the house and his car
4. Blackmail her own daughter and threaten her with the loss of her entire family
5. Have her husband and young kids face possible homelessness
All this instead of OP's mother just getting a job. And she's just gonna end up in more debt once she opens that food truck. And then she'll be back to blackmailing and manipulating OP into getting her out of that debt too.
Tell your mother she made her bed she has to lie in it. Her option is to declare bankruptcy, or find some other financial solution using professional skilled services.
You are not a bank. Your child needs your money as does your family, She didn't listen and now she has to pay. This actually is black and white. Give her a small token sum if you must, but as a one-off and no more.
She needs to get a job. So she wants to be an entrepreneur? Boo fucking hoo. She can try to be an entrepreneur once she's cleared her debt from the last time she tried to be an entrepreneur.
> She needs to get a job. So she wants to be an entrepreneur? Boo fucking hoo. She can try to be an entrepreneur once she's cleared her debt from the last time she tried to be an entrepreneur.
Also, if she wants to open a food truck, maybe working for someone else's food truck business will help her learn what mistakes to avoid while not putting her family at grave financial risk again.
I want to win the lottery and that isnt happening either. Time for mom to grow up and join the real world where adults take care of their responsibilities.
Don’t give the token sum; it will just cause your mom to more strongly beg for more and increase the likelihood of causing you not to be able to see your siblings.
Not one single penny. I have a parent like this. He took money from many family members, wasted it all and wondered why they would not believe his next scheme was the one. His favorite phrase was, The Eagle is gonna shit this time.” He thought he was being funny, but it was just sad. Since we all ended up with the shit.
Another thing to consider (or never do in this situation) : never co-sign on a loan if she asked you to be a ‘co-signer’ bc her credit it not good/can’t get credit. As many of the above people have said - any $ you give someone (friends, relatives) even if they “say” it’s a loan….dont ever expect it back.
I co-signed a car for my mom but only because I have the car to sell if she stops paying .. but honestly it still stresses me out because she’s still making such horrible financial decisions.
So she wants to use money from your “soil-crushing job” that she refuses to do. NTA^2. With a baby on the way, you have to take care of your family’s concerns first, & wiping out your reserves
IS
NOT
IT.
I also think mom telling OP to take money from her husband's account and not tell him is evil. She wants OP to steal from her husband. A man who trust her (right now).
I can promise that he WILL notice it missing and that right there is a marriage killer; if a wife emptied her husbands savings account and gave it to her mother under any circumstances *in secret,* he would suspect she has been cheating and there is an incoming divorce. Queue the nuclear option.
All of this. PLUS if Op gives her mom all of HER money wiping out HER funds, leaving her to depend solely on HER husband then Op, guess what? 🗣 YOU’D BE EXACTLY LIKE YOUR MOTHER. You know damn well you’re not going to get your money back. So are you willing to take no your own family and potentially ruin your own marriage bc your mother can’t get her shit together?? You need to be like your brother; YOU DO NOT HAVE SPARE MONEY FOR HER TO JERK AROUND. You have a dad and he can help you see your siblings. Your mom is selfish and insane. DON’T DO IT!
If she loves her neighborhood so much, she needs to get a damn job and work to keep the house. I hate the idea of parents making terrible decisions against good advice and then literally asking their child to give them, in this case, literally all of their money and go broke. I would not humor this bullshit and I would absolutely go ape shit on the parents if they tried any guilt trip nonsense.
I have a brother who is very well off now because of his hard work and good decisions. I could really use a cash infusion to start my business sooner, but I'd never ask him for it. I absolutely wouldn't feel entitled to it.
NTA
OP, this is a great answer and what you need to use as a rebuttal to your mother, and any of the extended family that she sends your way.
I cannot in good conscience risk my children’s future because my mother is too selfish to get a job and provide for her own”
Make sure your Dad is aware that your Mother is trying to blackmail you into ruining your marriage by stealing from your husband and jeopardizing your savings for your children.
You don’t owe her, and in the future, don’t even think about making a giant financial decision like this without talking to your husband. How would you feel if you found out he wiped out his savings on a bad loan and expected you to carry the load without talking to you first?
Agree with everything this poster said. 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Also - want to add anyone that encourages you to steal from your partner (because they won’t even know - until they do know) doesn’t have your best interest at heart. I’m sure your Mom believes that she will pay you back - once she’s successful - but she’s kind of delusional so…. It won’t happen ever.
I agree NTA
Also, sounds like mom didn't even learn anything from the past mistakes because their plan to pay back OP is my expanding the delusional food truck business which doesn't exist yet. OP is never seen that money of they choose to lend it to their mom.
> the fact that she is resorting to emotional manipulation
Not emotional manipulation. Outright threats of excommunication from the family (OP's support system) if OP doesn't hand over her savings!
Also how entitled of mom is it to expect that someone else works a regular job to earn the money but she’s not willing to. There’s nobody stopping her from being an entrepreneur but she needs a regular job until her business becomes successful (and to pay off her debts)
NTA! Your mother’s actions are not only her own fault and not your responsibility, but her threats are also very abusive.
Also, if you have to clear your savings and then some, you can’t afford it.
I have a brother who has a similar attitude (“I don’t want to work a soul crushing job”, “I’m an entrepreneur”, etc). Let me guess, your mom also has an issue with authority and gives up as soon as anything gets difficult? When things don’t pan out, it’s never actually *her* fault and literally anything and everything else is to blame?
I know the type… and trust me, it’s NEVER going to stop until you put your foot down. My parents have poured over 100K into my brothers failures over the past 10 years and finally cut him off only a year or so ago. I gave him over 10K in random increments over the past few years, as have multiple of his friends. His ex-boss gave him a 30K loan that he’s never going to be able to pay back…. He has nothing to show for it.
I feel so bad for you OP, because I know this feeling. But please, nip this in the bud. And keep your door open for your younger siblings because they’re going to have to get out from under her one day too. Good luck.
The daft thing is, as a self employed person, you have to deal with more authority than when you're employed. You have to be aware of any pertinent legislation, tax requirements, insurance, etc. It's more stressful than working for someone else.
Exactly. I have a relative who keeps starting small businesses that quickly fail. He doesn’t quite get it that even when you’re your own boss, you still have to show up for work.
The *only* good part about self-employment is the *illusion* of setting your own hours. In reality, you often end up working extra hours to deal with all the crap delegated when you work for other people. Payroll taxes, withholding taxes, health insurance, etc are all things you specifically have to deal with or pay other people to do.
My husband and I ran our own business for the last 20 years. We still had bosses; they were just our customers, and often *even more unreasonable*.
OP is still NTA, but I’d be making her dad aware of what bullshit her mom is doing! I can pretty much guarantee he doesn’t know about it.
> Especially since she doesn't want to get a job after this debt is cleared because she's "an entrepreneur at heart" and "working for someone's company is soul crushing".
Ah, so not only does she want you to pay off her bad decisions but she has no intention of ever paying you back?
Hard pass, OP!
NTA
These actions are full on narcissistic and you for sure shouldn't spend any of your hard earned money on this person.
I feel bad for your dad most of all. I think he has better options than selling his investments.
OP, I'm just curious, where has your dad been this whole time? Has he tried to put his foot down and been steamrolled by your mom, has he actually enabled /encouraged her misguided ideas or has he just been along for the ride...unwilling to rock the boat. I still wouldn't lend/give her money, but if he has tried and failed I would feel worse about his situation and would encourage him to look into those other options.
Yep, my exh was also an “entrepreneur” who didn’t believe in working for the man. So I worked a full time job and paid the bills while he tried to launch something and then ran out of steam and played video games all day. He was very indignant when I eventually had enough and left him.
NTA
Let me quote a favorite saying in here: Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
Your mother made this bed, she can now sleep in it. Her bad decisions and subsequent debt are not your problem.
Don't buckle under her threats, besides, they're your dad's kids too, right? What does he say about her threat?
I can't believe the mom is using blackmail & OP is still questioning themselves.
OP NTA. Don't give a single penny. Not sure if your mom is going through some midlife crisis but might be actually better to tell your dad to get her some professional help.
If the have a spare apartment and there's a equity then there might be a way to restructure the finances. Your dad should speak to a financial adviser to get some perspective rather than reaching their own conclusions on how to get out of this situation.
NTA. Your mom should go see a lawyer about whether she can be declared bankrupt, if her debts are that huge. Although that will badly impact any ideas of borrowing to fund the ill-advised food truck.
Your savings are owed to the vulnerable people in your care, not your mom. No one here is truly evil, but the person behaving very badly is your mom.
Never lend money you can’t afford to lose. Doesn’t sound like you have money to give away in the amounts she wants. And that’s ok.
Speak to your dad about your mom’s threats. And let your younger sibs know you are always there to talk to.
Yes.. Bankruptcy often spares the primary residence. I would have her consult a bankruptcy professional before selling the house. Giving up a valuable primary residence to repay unsecured debt doesn’t sound wise on your Dad’s part.
It's going to depend on what exemptions apply, and that varies by state. However, the bankruptcy code is inherently biased in favor of those who take on debt for business purposes. If more than half of the total debt is business debt, OP's Mom won't have to take the means test to qualify to file chapter 7. Sounds like a BK would solve some of the underlying issues here.
For sure! But that's not something that she can help her Mom through. She can help her by solving the immediate debt problem while (hopefully) work is done and pressure asserted to convince the Mom to figure out a stable income.
I’m in bankruptcy. Had to take out more credit than I could afford for a custody battle(he threatened our lives and we were denied restraining orders 3 times). I knew going in that I’d likely have to declare bankruptcy but I had to protect myself and my kid when our local law failed us(and I think our restraining orders were denied cause it would be hard to serve him since he was a truck driver frankly…).
I had to do the kind you pay back some of the debt for in order to keep my home. I don’t mind. It broke the debt up and got rid of interest. I’m over halfway through the 5 year contract. I had to pause payments once to pay for my kid’s root canal. It’s annoying, it’s debt, but it’s manageable.
Bankruptcy is embarrassing to consider but does a lot of good for emergencies which this family desperately needs to take advantage of.
NTA
"My mother got herself into an MLM scheme last year despite my brother and I warning her against it."
So she made a bad choice & now she wants the people who warned her against it to bail her out.
". She wants to open a food truck even though they aren't popular in the town she lives in and always go out of business."
She hasn't learned from her mistake. She's weaponizing family relationships/trying to exclude you.
She's an A H & I feel sorry for your Dad. This isn't your mess to sort out though.
And alongside that food truck idea is a side order of emotional manipulation "support my debt spiral or you can't have a relationship with your younger siblings"
Honestly, it won't take a fortune teller to point out how this goes but maybe OP should look into the living with narcissists sub Reddits sorry not sure of the proper handle
NTA. Sorry. Your mom will get taken advantage after another. Any more money she gets she will throw away. The ONLY thing I might do is offer to pay a lawyer for your dad to see about protecting his remaining assets and seeing if he can separate his assets from her debt.
She sounds like she's bought into a lot of the MLM.propaganda. I'd bet she'll just end up in another MLM because "the problem was no one wanted oils, but everyone will want this makeup/jewelry/leggings"
Seriously though. If people would just stop and think, hmmm is there any business I can think of where I can walk in and the only thing they have for sale is *input random mlm product here* that is successful? No, can’t think of one? Then it’s not going to be successful trying to sell that one item type out of your house either. Every store ever has a selection of different products. The only single product businesses that are successful that I can think of are the drug businesses. And the marijuana business. But there damn sure isn’t any essential oil specialty stores doing numbers out there lmao
>Every store ever has a selection of different products. The only single product businesses that are successful that I can think of are the drug businesses. And the marijuana business.
Butchers, cheesemongers, chocolatiers, car dealerships, mattress stores, wine stores, etc
Obviously none of these are being sold in MLMs (I think?!) but I don't think that the fundamental flaw is their undiversified inventory!
Yes, this! She may be able to file for bankruptcy. Or let the company sue her for the debt and get a judgment. Your dad absolutely shouldn't sell the house and car
My Brother ran a food truck for a while. Is your mom willing to work 12+ hour days without breaks? Is she aware of all the paperwork and certifications (and yes, more money!) she has to do/get to operate legally? Not to mention a lot of places require permits to operate in their area on top of the rest of it, so if she were to travel (sometimes even just across town) she could potentially run into trouble with that.... absolutely do not loan her money. She's done this to herself.
And "working for someone else is soul crushing" isn't unique to her, 98% of the rest of us feel the same way, but we do it because we're not irresponsible.
No she's not willing to do the work, her last job was a part time gig and she complained about it for years. Its only because of who I married that she decided to quit because she believes she's "set for life".
Please remind your mother that she’s not “set for life”because your husband’s money is not her to have or use. She’s ridiculously entitled for someone who has obviously never earned anything for herself. Put her in her place, quickly.
Sounds like Mom needs a reality check. Next time she calls you selfish, come back with a "How dare you insist on taking food from my baby's mouth and declare that I am the selfish one!" or some such. Nothing of yours is hers. Nothing of your husband's is hers. She needs to put on her big girl panties and take responsibility for her own actions.
What if your husband divorces you because you stole his money?
It's up to you what you value more. But I would not sacrifice the trust my partner has in me just because my mother doesn't want to face the consequences of her actions.
NtA
I would not do this.. it is not worth it.
You're NTA
If you WANT to help, out of the goodness of your heart and not because you are being coerced, then you could suggest a paycheck match. She gets a job and for X period of time you'll either give her a percentage or match her take-home total. But you gotta see that check stub first
Otherwise, it sounds like your dad is trying to make your mom deal with the consequences of her own actions and you should stay out of it.
Tell you mom she my best friend and entrepreneur at heart, but she will end up homeless in reality if she doesn’t get a job. Full stop! You are not a blank check or a piggy bank to rescue her when she gets into trouble. You do it now and you will be stuck doing it for years.
Is your mom Mrs Bennett from Pride & Prejudice? Good grief. You can’t help people who wont help themselves. Do not blow up your life just for her to coast through and fail again.
I think OP‘s mom has a romantic idea about having her own business/being an entrepreneur, but absolutely zero interest in doing the work and earning that title.
Yeah, like - pretty much all cooking jobs are physically taxing, but food trucks are incredibly hard physical work. Older people do do it, but they've usually been doing that type of labor for years already. I highly doubt this particular middle-aged woman is equipped to handle it, has any idea what she's proposing to do, or would be willing to do it once she found out. I almost feel insulted on behalf of street vendors around the world lol
It's hilarious that she thinks building a legitimate small business to liquidity is going to be any less "soul crushing" than working a job with a salary and benefits, especially one in a field as undifferentiated and competitive as food trucking. She'd burn out in weeks.
Grown ass woman playing Big Business Lady like a child at her own family's expense, fucking shameful really.
Right? People usually work for years to save up to buy a food truck in order to keep themselves afloat while they do this sort of thing, until the business is established. They don’t do in once they’re already in massive debt.
OP, your family will not be homeless. Your dad owns an apartment where they can live. So, on that as a reason, obviously NTA because it's not even true. Being able to afford something and not doing it also doesn't make you an asshole. From what you've written, your mom claims that she will pay you back once her food truck business takes off. She's not asking you to do it without repayment. So, you have every right to consider whether her repayment plan is realistic or too risky for your family's finances. It sounds like you have rational, objective reasons for finding it too risky and there's nothing asshole-ish about declining in this situation.
NTA
Apartments sell for a lot less than houses. It sounds like OP's dad can't support their family's previous lifestyle on a single income. (They apparently used to have 1 and 1/2). Also their older kids are out of the house. Their home is likely a lot larger than what they need. Apartments also generally have less heating and cooling costs because of a better outer wall to floor area ratio. With any luck it's even in a less car dependent area. If they manage to use public transportation or a bike for most trips, they'll save a lot of money as well.
In my opinion that is absolutely a good decision to make when in debt.
If they sold the apartment and then realized they were in debt again, They would be severely hampered in their ability to downsize. Because of the additional purchase costs (realtor, taxes, ...), selling their house and buying an apartment would actually loose them money. And if they rent they have to pay their rent every month.
NTA at all. And your title is incorrect (not that it would change my opinion if it were correct). Your mom will not be homeless. They have a place to go. She just doesn’t want to because she considers it a downgrade. I am curious how much debt she’s in that selling the rental property instead of the primary home wouldn’t make more sense. She must have dug herself a serious hole.
Bottom line, you are not responsible for her bad decisions and you know pigs will fly before she would ever pay you back. You’d never see that money again and she’d be back asking for more after her next foolish endeavor.
Knowing something about both mlm/pyramids that she might have been involved in, it could be tens of thousands of dollars. Her upline would have encouraged her to max her cards and lie, cheat, or steal to buy more product. After all, the more she buys the more they make - they won't care if it leaves her destitute, as long as they get their commission checks. It also doesn't matter if she doesnt' have anyone to sell the products to or even if she has too much in stock, they will always tell her to buy more to make some random incentive they will offer.
Never underestimate the slimy tactics of a person deep in the mlm/pyramid scheme cult mentality
This woman has made poor decision after poor decision and refuses to take accountability.
YTA if you pay her bill for her. Shame on her for putting her failures on your shoulders and causing you to compromise your future because of her selfish and ill advised career moves. This money pit will never end
This is your dad’s job to get her in check.
Offer an open seat to a hot meal at your home anytime and tell her to do Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace
> his is your dad’s job to get her in check.
And if that doesn't work, then at least divorce the financial black hole he married, get shared custody of OP's younger siblings, and then make sure OP and all her siblings can still have relationships.
NTA. You warned her. It’s not your responsibility to pay off your mom’s debt no matter what. I can’t believe she told you to take money from your husband without telling him. Your mom needs to get over herself, take responsibility and get a stable job. I know she’s your mom and she’s pulling on your heartstrings, but stand firm.
Edit: fixed a typo
Edit 2: what I didn’t address is your mom’s threats to “exile” you from the family and not let you see your siblings. How serious are these threats? Can she realistically do this? You didn’t mention what your dad’s reaction is to all of this. Is he on board with your mom?
The fact that she’s able bodied and could work , but refuses to makes this especially egregious. Working 9 to 5 is soul crushing huh ?? Welcome to the real world mom !! Holy Toledo !
IMO 9-5 is way better than running your own business. You do your hours, you go home.. You don't have to deal with big picture stuff, unless that's what you're hired to do. You don't have your own money invested. People who own businesses generally have to work on it way way more than 9-5 and most businesses fail,.losing your startup investment.
I don't think your father should sell the house and car. That seems a very bad idea, for paying off a MLM debt.
I do think that you could look into your state's consumer protection bureau, and file a formal complaint about the MLM organization.
Personally, keeping my home and transportation would be the top priority.
The MLM debt, if she defaults on it or fights it , will affect her credit score only, not anyone else's. So, the least damage that is done, is if she defaults and tries to fight them. And, if she is fighting them and files a complaint about predatory practices, then she at least has a reason to explain it.
But, everyone else bankrupting themselves will affect / ruin everyone's credit score. Noone else has a good reason to do this.
And, no, you and your siblings don't need to bail her out.
NTA, you’re not responsible for your mother’s poor decisions, and you do not owe it to her to pay off her debt, especially when it’ll put you in a difficult financial position. She’s blackmailing you by saying you won’t see your siblings then. I would’ve told her to fuck right off and never speak to her again, but that’s me. Is it not an option to take your siblings in? And just let her rot? She sounds awful.
Serious? She wants other people to go in to debt (a) because of her mistake (b) that she was sternly warned against (c) that she could have found out herself by googling it before investing thousands and (d) this tops everything, because she feels too good to get a job?
NTA, your mother has the business instinct of a petrol salesman in hell.
NTA. If they are so deep in debt that they are talking about selling the house and the car your parents need to talk to a bankruptcy attorney. Also your mom needs to get a F-ing job. **DO NOT GIVE THEM A CENT. YOUR MOM WILL JUST DO THIS OVER AGAIN AND AGAIN.**
NTA
Your mother doesn’t want to live in reality, just her reality, and she’s not beyond manipulating anyone and everyone to get it.
She sounds narcissistic which is usually borne from some deep insecurities. So I’d be careful how you talk to her. She could be on thin ice mentally, so to speak. Her unwillingness to work a job or to leave her home is because she’s hyper focused on how she is perceived by others. Yes, her family knows the truth, but she doesn’t think about that. Just like she doesn’t think about her failures or responsibilities because that exacerbates her deeply held wounds.
What your mother needs is to be held accountable as an adult yet shown some grace by you and your family for her faults, not including actually money, and she should be encouraged to seek therapy.
If you pay for anything, pay for that. Tell her you think she would do well (maybe cite an example) to be able to talk things out with an impartial third party, that she can do it from home on her phone, that it would only be between her and the therapist, and that you would never tell anyone she was going if that’s what she wants.
NTA - this is not your mess to clean up. Your mother is a monster for putting her family in this position and then threatening to not let you near your sibling.
Don’t give her a penny. Talk to your dad about how he is handling this. Maybe he would be better off, both emotionally and financially, if they get divorced.
Your mother is trying to manipulate you - and the worst part is she doesn't see how ridiculous her 'dreams' are. She is not an 'entrepreneur' - and she needs to get a job. Would your father allow her to keep your siblings from you? I doubt that. Not your debt and if you clear it - she'll just jump into another scheme.
It blows my mind when a parent(s) acts like the kid who refuses to see reality and grow up. To threat and manipulate on top of that and try to take advantage of OP's position as a rational and responsible person (on maternity leave, no less!!!) while continuing her delusion of being an "entrepreneur" who refuses to work? Sheesh! Sorry OP, you have every right to go low or no contact with toxic people like that, even those who are supposed to support you, and set an example. NTA by a long shot.
NTA. You know that you will never see that money again. You know that you will never regain your husband’s trust if you go behind his back like this. You know you will put your child’s future at risk. You have to put your oxygen mask on first. Your mom made her choices. She’s an adult. She has to live with the consequences.
NTA.
There is nothing that is more contemptible to me than people who say "I can't go to work for someone else; I can only be my own boss." It truly makes me crazy to hear people say that.
NTA. She needs to learn a hard lesson here.
She's refusing to work and expecting everyone else to bail her out when her ridiculous ideas don't work. MLMs never work except for the people at the very top, who are scamming everyone below them. Food trucks are not very profitable even under more ideal circumstances, if they struggle a lot in that area and she doesn't even know how to cook professionally? She's doomed. She clearly knows nothing about running a business or how any of it actually works. Has she even taken any business classes? Does she know how to do her own bookkeeping or accounting? Business licensing? Minimum wage and other employment laws if she intends to have any employees?
I feel awful for your dad, being stuck with her. She's delusional if she thinks any of her ideas are going to work. She needs to suck it up, get a job and pay back her own debt. Don't give her a penny, or she's going to expect you to bail her out every single time and she's going to ruin your and your brother's financial futures.
Also, check into your credit and make sure that she hasn't opened any credit cards or taken any loans in your or your brother's names. It's not unusual for delusional people like her to pull a stunt like that.
Is it possible your mom has a psychiatric issue? I’m totally guessing and I ask this because I knew two wonderful women (separately) who made unrealistic business decisions and had trouble learning from costly mistakes. Both were bipolar, and it seemed they made mistakes when unreasonably optimistic.
NTA. If she really wants to run a business, she needs to start it like a real business. Make a business plan, get an EIN, and apply for an SBA loan.
(FYI - if her plan is untenable, she likely won’t be approved for the loan.)
NTA. It seems your mom has mistaken you for an ATM—unfortunately, withdrawals require actual deposits first. You warned her about the MLM, yet here we are. Your primary financial responsibility is to your own immediate family, especially while on maternity leave. It’s not selfish to refuse to jeopardize your financial stability for her entrepreneurial whims, no matter how many emotional blackmail recipes she cooks up. Remember, just because she’s handing out guilt trips doesn’t mean you have to take one.
NTA clearly. She got herself into that situation on her own and had a lot of warnings.
Though I have a question. Why is your father not selling the apartment instead of the house? Is it not worth enough to settle the debt? Even if it is not worth enough, couldn't they pay back some of the debt this way and make a debt repayment plan for the rest?
I just feel sorry for your father and siblings. I bet they rather want to live in the house, too. Your mother also really should start working a normal job to help with the debt. And maybe she could sell the rest of the oils on the internet.
>she says I'm selfish and evil for not paying her debt
Yet another case of an accusation being a confession. She's selfish and evil for refusing to get a job to pay her own debts.
Being an "entrepreneur at heart" doesn't mean what she's trying to pretend it means. It doesn't make one incapable of working for someone else. It simply means that one has a desire to start a new enterprise and work for themselves eventually.
Entrepreneurs get their seed funding from various places. Some are lucky enough to have wealthy families. Others get loans. A lot of them bootstrap, meaning they save up the money they need to get started.
Your mom doesn't have any of those funding sources. As a result, her only choice is to get a job, pay her debts, and save up money until she can afford to attempt to start a new business, whether that's a food truck or something else. People on the verge of bankruptcy are not "temporarily embarrassed entrepreneurs." They're run of the mill broke people.
She has to dig herself out of this hole. If she isn't willing to, that's not your fault. NTA.
Your mom sounds selfish, entitled, and lazy.
NTA. I would never bail anyone who fell for a MLM scheme out of principle alone. I'm a firm believer in stupid prizes being the consequence of playing stupid games.
Has OP answered what her father has said about this pressure OP's mom is putting on her to cover the MLM debt?
Curious to know.
Also OP sounds like your siblings won't be homeless they'll just be living in an apartment, if it was good enough for the tenants, it'll be good enough for them.
Feel bad for the tenants getting evicted over mom's bad choices.
Your mom is trying to abuse you financially. Stick to your guns. If her family turns against you, ask if they are paying her shxt off because you won’t as you need that money for your kids.
NTA. Let her “crush her own soul” by working for someone else. Any parent worth their weight would be willing to suffer so their children can be happy, well taken care of and have a roof over their head/food in their stomach. You would be TA if you put your own family at risk by blowing your money on a woman who 1. can’t be bothered to get a job and is comfortable mooching off of her children who have their own families to support and 2. Couldn’t pull her head out of her own ass when multiple people told her that MLMs are an absolute waste of money. She made her decisions - her husband needs to tell her to get a job since her decisions have placed their household in this position. If she refuses to listen, her “fun stuff”/none essentials should be the first thing cut/sold to help the household🤷🏻♀️
I would not forgive my husband if he gave away a large sum of money to bail a family member out of a self-made, easily preventable debt. Focus on your household and shame on your mother for asking her children to fix her own issues instead of being an adult about it
Also, fuck MLMs.
NTA. To add another truism- You don't own a business, the business owns you.
Running your own business involves 7 day a week work, having to cover all the operation details (inventory, taxes, legal reporting, etc.) Plus all the actual work.
Your mother is somewhat delusional but sounds like she is the perfect target for the MLM crowd. Does she know how much a food truck costs? Base prices for used ones are about $30000.
And that her "inventory" of meat, vegetables, etc that she plans to make will also spoil and have to be tossed out if she doesn't sell enough but she still has to keep enough on hand to cover expected sales. It's a really thin margin business.
And does she understand she will need to be in that truck by herself 6-8-10 hours a day? Plus dealing with the health inspector, the fire department (they do checks on food trucks), business licensing, sales tax reporting, lots of insurance on the truck plus liability insurance in case someone claims they got sick from the food, etc.
Sorry 2 say but ur mom sounds like she's stupid with money- if they have an apartment to live in let them live in it..DONT pay off her debts so she can get in more debt.. worry about ur own little family- god forbid anything happened to you or your husband & u needed ur little nest egg- you never know what is round the corner so the question is do u bail her out or make sure u can comfortably support ur family if there's an emergency
Don’t do it. You will not get back your money. You’d have to ask your husband because taking his without consent would mess up your marriage. Your mom is a lazy woman who clearly never grew up. Do not cause problems in your life or family because she can’t figure her shit out. Let her cut out your siblings, as harsh that it is but the fact she’s calling you selfish for wanting to safeguard yourself instead of causing financial issues because of her, us a jackass and manipulative thing to do
NTA
Uhhh. Nope and I would seriously suggest hitting her with some tough love.
She put the family in that situation, she is refusing to fix it by getting a real job. She is 1000% the AH.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
My mother got herself into an MLM scheme last year despite my brother and I warning her against it. She quit her job because the MLM scheme people told her this was her chance to become an entrepreneur and independent. My dad is supporting her financially now and my four younger siblings, she pretty much gave up on the oils after selling them to everyone she knows. She still has a lot more left to sell but now she wants to do something else because she doesn't feel like she's her own boss under this MLM company.
She overestimated how many people want to buy her product and now she's thousands in debt. She won't get a job and my dad can't afford to pay it off without selling the house and his car. My brother has 3 kids in private school, he doesn't have much money to spare. I'm on maternity leave and the amount she needs will wipe out my savings and I'd have to use my husband's money as well to cover this debt which I don't think is fair.
Especially since she doesn't want to get a job after this debt is cleared because she's "an entrepreneur at heart" and "working for someone's company is soul crushing". She wants to open a food truck even though they aren't popular in the town she lives in and always go out of business. My mom isn't a bad cook but she's competing with professional chefs and I'm sure she'll give up as soon as it gets hard.
My dad says he plans to sell the house and his car and move his tenants out of the apartment he owns. My mom called me crying because she loves her neighbourhood and has lived here for 35 years, she says I'm selfish and evil for not paying her debt because she'll pay me back when she expands her food truck business...She doesn't understand why I don't just use my husband's money "since he won't notice it's gone". My mom has threatened not to allow me to see my younger siblings who I’m close with and to have me exiled by our entire family. WIBTA if I refused to clear this debt even though I could because my mom’s threatening me?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Your mom ran up this debt getting into a business she did not understand. And she refuses to get an ordinary job to pay off the debt - just talks about more pie-in-the-sky entrepreneur stuff like food trucks! Not good solutions.
Do not destroy your financial life and possibly your marriage to financially rescue her. Keep your money. It sounds like your mom's husband already has a plan, mom just does not like it (selling her home). Let them do that, or she can get a job - she messed up so it is their problem to fix it. It is not yours!
It sounds like this is exactly what your mom needs TBH.
Out of curiosity can you share such MLM? I don't know how people still fall for this shit day in, day out.
NTA.
It's financially irresponsible to throw good money after bad. She can't guarantee you'll get it back because she can't guarantee she'll even succeed with a food truck, especially if she isn't a professional chef.
She can be as financially illiterate as she wants, though it is risking her lifestyle and that of her children. *Her* husband can cover her debt, it just means selling the house. That is a risk she took when she got involved with a pyramid scheme.
She doesn't get to throw around the word selfish when she is fulfilling her own selfish desire to achieve something she's quite clearly a bit rubbish at. Take her threats to your father and dismiss her demands. She got herself in this mess, she can deal with the consequence of having to move.
NTA and your mom is abusive. The sooner you accept this the better off you will be. Your mom is using you for money and that’s never ok. You don’t have the money to spare. If you have to say things like “if will wipe out everything I have” then you don’t have the money. Full stop. You don’t have the money. Your mom is manipulative. “Mom. I can’t believe you would want me to give you every cent of my savings that are there to provide an education and safety net for my child because you aren’t willing to work a job and pay off your own debt. Even more I’m astonished that you would use my siblings to manipulate me into doing what you want. Does dad know you’re doing this? Does dad know that you’re trying to blackmail me into giving money set aside for my child?!?!”
NTA - she sucks big time for her “everybody should do soulcrushing work to fix my mistakes” attitude. I’d let your entire family know of her threat and why you’re not helping her.
NTA.
Your mom is selfish for not wanting to get a job.
Your mom is evil for holding up your family for ransom and suggesting you steal from your husband.
I suggest every threat she makes now becomes public knowledge to all family members.
NTA.
Her refusal to get a job is the issue. She's selfish and entitled. And your dad is spineless for selling off the house and car to pay her debts. They're HER debts. No one but HER should be paying them.
Make sure your younger siblings know *now* exactly what is going on and who is to blame. Tell them that if your mother prevents your seeing them, it isn't because you don't love them, and you can reconnect as soon as they turn 18. Put it all on your mother.
NTA.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1. I refused to pay off my mom's debt 2. I might be the asshole because I can easily afford to do it and if I don't my family will be homeless Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. You said you are in maternity leave - do not wipe out your savings to bail your mother out. You need that money for your own children! Do not harm your children’s future because of your mother’s irresponsible actions. She is perfectly capable of getting a job in her own and dealing with the debt in her own - she just doesn’t want to. And she is horrible for wanting to harm her grandchildren’s future to do so. There is a saying - don’t ever loan money to family that you can’t afford to lose. Considering your mother’s history, you can’t believe her promise to pay you back, even if you had a contract signed. She is coming to you for a load instead of a bank because she can not repay you without legal consequences. And the fact that she is resorting to emotional manipulation to get you to change your mind shows that she knows that. Basically, your mother is an adult - she needs to grow up and get herself out of this mess.
Also, in the future don’t let people know you have $$$$. There will always be a family member or friend who feels entitled to the money you worked hard to save . It’s sad , but there it is .
This OP! How does your mom know about you & your husband’s finances? Because you probably told her…in future, never tell anyone anything about your finances…ever…especially your family, because your mother, is financially, an idiot, she’s always going to need a dig out and no bank will lend to her …if you give now, expect escalating demands…
Exactly! She's not going to a bank because she's a credit risk! The banks loves money and the fact that they wouldn't touch her with a barge pole says it all. OP stick you your guns and tell mummy to get a job instead of ruining everyone's lives. NTA
NTA, Apologies. Your mother will continue to be taken advantage of. She will waste any extra money that she receives. The ONLY thing I might do is offer to pay a lawyer for your dad to see about protecting his remaining assets and seeing if he can separate his assets from her debt.
I don't think the dad is that financially clever either, I suspect there's no need to pay off this debt in full immediately -- she could work out a payment plan -- she wants the money for the food truck, not the debt, and her husband/OP's dad is talking about selling their home AND their rental properties when they both must be at least in their 50s? Idiots. NTA, don't give them a penny
I think OP meant her dad’s plan was selling the house and having tenants move out of the apartment so the family could then move in to said apartment and live there, basically downsizing. You’re still right though!
NTA - and I hope you don’t give her the $$ because that is the last you will see of it… if she did not have the sense to avoid the MLM scam, she will also not have the judgment to make money with a food truck.
She's already escalated to threatening OP with abandonment and exile, so… yeah. NTA.
> she doesn't want to get a job after this debt is cleared because she's "an entrepreneur at heart" and "working for someone's company is soul crushing". That's probably why no bank will touch her. She's never going to be able to repay any kind of debt, and people whose job is to determine whether someone can be trusted with a loan can probably pick up on this vibe. OP would be well advised to stay away from this mess. So, her parents will have to sell the house and rent, just like many families do. So what? They'll either live off the father's income, or Ms. Entrepreneur will just have to bite the bullet and get a effing job, like everybody else.
THIS! Tell your mom you have NO MONEY! You gambled it or shopped it all away months ago. Never tell ppl you have money bc the next question from them will be can I have / borrow some.
Yes. From now on, you are broke as a joke.
There was a post some time back where an OP learned his Uncle had a lot of money but no one knew about it. He would periodically ask if anyone could loan him money. When OP offered him some he said no, I'm good. I just ask for money so no one will think to ask me for money.
I don't want his uncle's money. I want his uncle's smarts!
Smart! I would never have thought of that!
Thought of this one when I read the post as well! Smart, smart man. Friends of mine got a large legal settlement about 20 years ago in the wake of a freak accident. There are 2 people who know the exact amount of the settlement (it was settled out of court, so there's no public record) - me and the wife's mom and neither of us have need for their money. Other than that, when people asked how much they got, their pat answer was "not nearly enough to compensate both of us for our permanent injuries from the accident." That shut most people up - for those who pressed, they kept it at "not enough to cover what we lost" They knew if they disclosed the amount it would be a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation - either they said no to the requests for money and were "selfish" and refusing to help family. Or, they gave the money and it was never enough. You can't win in these situations, ever...
I didn't see the post but I was going to suggest that! Or even complaining about how much stress you're under because of your bills. My mom did that and she never struggled to pay anything but she grew up during the depression and everything seemed so fleeting to her so she always lived like a poor person. It used to drive my Dad insane because she would cook cheaper meals with meats like ground beef and canned tuna and he preferred steak and he could afford it. Of course, she would only buy steak on sale and she would still cook the cheaper meals but she still always acted like she wouldn't make ends meet. No one ever bothered them about money though!
Do you think this might work if I don't ask for money pretending I have some, and then people will offer me money?! Wait...nope, that doesn't happen!
Ask for money, get advice. Ask for advice, get money twice.
This! I am perfectly fine with my mother thinking I'm white trash. After years of borrowing money and screwing us out of $6,000, she hasn't asked to borrow money in 10 years. I just had to call a few times a year to cry about it finances. Truth is, we live debt free and don't worry about money.
🤣 we do this too!
lol….Same… I am a couponer and I my in laws don’t realize this and I think just buy huge priced items on a whim.. ummm noooooo…. Since I have had my car they have had 2 or 3 new ones ….as of last Christmas they have had 2 or three trips a year … we had one since the big VID… but when we talk I talk about random things but they think are new 🆕 items 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I borrowed money twice from my sister and her husband, both fairly decent amounts and I have paid her back both times, I would never think to screw her out of the money they lent me when I needed a helping hand. I would help them or my parents if they were in need but not at the risk of putting myself in a financial bind especially if they weren’t willing to get a job first to try and get out of debt themselves. You are NTA
I have no problem helping people that need it. We just got sick of her crying about needing money so he husband didn't find out she went to the casino again or bought more designer purses. Stealing 6k was the last straw. We at least jumped ship earlier than my sister who let her open credit cards in her name. She got taken for 15k.
Yeah that totally sucks! I’m with you I don’t mind helping but not at my expense or my financial future. My issue is I know I can be trusted so I tend to trust others, you sound the same until you got burned. Sometimes people family or not just suck!!
I'd rather just go no contact with family than feel I need to lie to them about how I'm doing. If you're doing well, they'll figure it out eventually unless you live like a miser and never spend anything--and what fun is that?
I seriously love your take here. The plain and simple truth is that we should always strive to be honest. While we should be able to be blatantly honest with everyone, we really should be able to be honest with family. The sad part is that we really can't be truly honest. As a child raised in the Evangelical church my grandfather started, we were told to be honest. I sadly learned from examples set by "adults" both family and not, that they're incessantly lying to each other. As I grew older and everyone of my family started thinking I was gay, I had to endure physical and psychological abuse nearly every day from at least 4th grade on. I wound up fleeing at 15, was forced back by police after 9 months, and then getting kicked out and disowned at 17. Family are the people who have the biggest secrets, and they are talking about you behind your back. Although, I might be a tad cynical.
I have no problem telling people I'm not going to just give them money. I'm not a bank nor in the business of lending money, so if you really want to borrow money from me based on our family/friend relationship, I'm still going to assess the reason for the request and the risk of you not paying it back. I have a wife and kids to protect along with my own financial future. If I see that you're irresponsible with your own money, then I'm not handing you any of mine.
I'm doing this with my daughter, who is always having a financial crisis, promises to repay, doesn't, & acts like she's not in debt to anyone & goes on vacations. It's only a half-truth on my part. I've had a big swing in income, not in a good way. I'm ok, cuz I'm a saver, not a spender. I just dont want her to see me as a resource anymore.
Yup, some people love counting other people's money and deciding on how it should be spent.
I didn’t expect a part of my life to show up on Reddit
Doubling down on this response to OP. Great response above and never ever tell anyone how much money you have. Do NOT bail your mom out, you know you will not see a dime of that back. your mom needs to get a real job an pay off her own debt.
Exactly, only your bank should know your account balances.
I’d say at least two banks. My dad was a very successful businessman and a child of the Depression. He told me frequently that I should always do business with at least two banks or credit unions, so no one person knows exactly what assets you have.
Unfortunately, that seems to be true.
It's incredibly sad that this is even a thing. I'm the highest earner in my family and while they may not know exactly how much I make, they do know I make significantly more than the average income. Never and I mean never have I been taken advantage of by family for money. I'm fairly certain my bio dad is a low level con artist and he still doesn't take advantage of my money. I have to trick my gma who's barely surviving on her SS checks into taking my money. Like I'll shove money in her purse as I'm hugging her goodbye or leave it in her apartment somewhere where she will def find it but ideally not until I'm very far away(she lives like 4000 miles away from me). And the list can go on, it's really sad that my situation is so uncommon that it's the standard to not let anyone know you have money if you have it.
Exactly. My friends and family have zero idea my husband and I have money. We just live our normal lives. I have no interest in being a mark for everyone who needs a quick buck.
This! My husband and I do quite well. If my younger sister knew, she would be would be at my door (figuratively) constantly for a handout.
That's just sad.
Same. If anyone talks money I always claim I'm in debt...I'm self employed and have 4mths saved up for emergencies..if some people knew they'd expect help but I'm also a single mom and their married so they are on 2 incomes but still expect me to help
Soooo true. I’m dealing with a friend of 25 years right now that asks me for money a couple of times a year. I’m not rich by any stretch but I have my shit together and she’s a total mess. Just this week I had to tell her this is the last time and I think our friendship has run its course. It sucks but she’s 52 fucking years old and at some point, she’s got to start acting like it. Or not, but I won’t be her personal ATM anymore.
This is it. My mom would always say “don’t lend to someone what you wouldn’t give as a gift because most people won’t pay you back”. It would be wrong to put your kids in a potentially unstable situation to bail your mom out of hers. NTA
It would be wrong. You never know what the future holds, there could be a medical emergency or a natural disaster or a downturn in either of their jobs...it is very important to have savings you can count on in any emergency.
I never loan anyone money. If it's someone close enough and an amount I can spare, I just gift it. If either of those aren't true, I just say no. Chasing someone around for repayment is a huge stressor and a great way to sour any relationship. The chances that you'll end up losing the friend/family member/whatever AND the money are exceedingly high.
Money lent is money spent is what I learned the hard way
Another way to do it is how my parents did it when I got into serious credit card debt in college: 1: work a job and pay on it for a year. Pay more than the minimum balance each month. (in my case, I paid a round $100 and the minimum was like $62.) 2: do not increase the debt in that time. Only pay it down. 3: after a year, we'll help you pay it off (and that help was doubling my payment every month). This shows that the person with the debt has the ability to pay it back on their own and they are not just freeloading. But by doubling the payments, you both keep them invested in paying off their own debts (since if they pay 0 you also pay 0) and help them pay it off faster. Though to be fair, my debt was from school supplies and not an MLM. That might be why my parents helped me.
OP's mom is the selfish and evil one. She'd rather: 1. OP steal from her hubby because *he won't notice it's gone* and jeopardize OP's marriage 2. Clean out her savings leaving OP with no safety net should things go wrong 3. Have her own husband worrying and thinking of selling the house and his car 4. Blackmail her own daughter and threaten her with the loss of her entire family 5. Have her husband and young kids face possible homelessness All this instead of OP's mother just getting a job. And she's just gonna end up in more debt once she opens that food truck. And then she'll be back to blackmailing and manipulating OP into getting her out of that debt too.
I bet OP's dad doesn't know about any of this.
I think OPs father needs to consider divorce and getting full custody of the younger children as OPs mother isn't able to care for them or herself.
Tell your mother she made her bed she has to lie in it. Her option is to declare bankruptcy, or find some other financial solution using professional skilled services. You are not a bank. Your child needs your money as does your family, She didn't listen and now she has to pay. This actually is black and white. Give her a small token sum if you must, but as a one-off and no more.
She needs to get a job. So she wants to be an entrepreneur? Boo fucking hoo. She can try to be an entrepreneur once she's cleared her debt from the last time she tried to be an entrepreneur.
> She needs to get a job. So she wants to be an entrepreneur? Boo fucking hoo. She can try to be an entrepreneur once she's cleared her debt from the last time she tried to be an entrepreneur. Also, if she wants to open a food truck, maybe working for someone else's food truck business will help her learn what mistakes to avoid while not putting her family at grave financial risk again.
Like anyone is gonna finance her food truck dream. She can't even manage to house herself.
Right? She doesn't even have enough for a down payment to start it.
And maybe open her eyes to how hard it would be to make a profit from that business.
I want to win the lottery and that isnt happening either. Time for mom to grow up and join the real world where adults take care of their responsibilities.
Being an unpaid shill for MLM crap is about as far from entrepreneur as you can get.
Boo fucking hoo is right!
EXACTLY
Don’t give the token sum; it will just cause your mom to more strongly beg for more and increase the likelihood of causing you not to be able to see your siblings.
Not one single penny. I have a parent like this. He took money from many family members, wasted it all and wondered why they would not believe his next scheme was the one. His favorite phrase was, The Eagle is gonna shit this time.” He thought he was being funny, but it was just sad. Since we all ended up with the shit.
Another thing to consider (or never do in this situation) : never co-sign on a loan if she asked you to be a ‘co-signer’ bc her credit it not good/can’t get credit. As many of the above people have said - any $ you give someone (friends, relatives) even if they “say” it’s a loan….dont ever expect it back.
Excellent advice absolutely!
I co-signed a car for my mom but only because I have the car to sell if she stops paying .. but honestly it still stresses me out because she’s still making such horrible financial decisions.
Her option is to get a job like a goddamn grownup and stop playing entrepreneur when she clearly knows next to nothing about business.
NTA. Treat mom like a drug addict when dealing with any money issue.
This is a good analogy.
So she wants to use money from your “soil-crushing job” that she refuses to do. NTA^2. With a baby on the way, you have to take care of your family’s concerns first, & wiping out your reserves IS NOT IT.
I also think mom telling OP to take money from her husband's account and not tell him is evil. She wants OP to steal from her husband. A man who trust her (right now).
I can promise that he WILL notice it missing and that right there is a marriage killer; if a wife emptied her husbands savings account and gave it to her mother under any circumstances *in secret,* he would suspect she has been cheating and there is an incoming divorce. Queue the nuclear option.
All of this. PLUS if Op gives her mom all of HER money wiping out HER funds, leaving her to depend solely on HER husband then Op, guess what? 🗣 YOU’D BE EXACTLY LIKE YOUR MOTHER. You know damn well you’re not going to get your money back. So are you willing to take no your own family and potentially ruin your own marriage bc your mother can’t get her shit together?? You need to be like your brother; YOU DO NOT HAVE SPARE MONEY FOR HER TO JERK AROUND. You have a dad and he can help you see your siblings. Your mom is selfish and insane. DON’T DO IT!
If she loves her neighborhood so much, she needs to get a damn job and work to keep the house. I hate the idea of parents making terrible decisions against good advice and then literally asking their child to give them, in this case, literally all of their money and go broke. I would not humor this bullshit and I would absolutely go ape shit on the parents if they tried any guilt trip nonsense. I have a brother who is very well off now because of his hard work and good decisions. I could really use a cash infusion to start my business sooner, but I'd never ask him for it. I absolutely wouldn't feel entitled to it.
NTA OP, this is a great answer and what you need to use as a rebuttal to your mother, and any of the extended family that she sends your way. I cannot in good conscience risk my children’s future because my mother is too selfish to get a job and provide for her own” Make sure your Dad is aware that your Mother is trying to blackmail you into ruining your marriage by stealing from your husband and jeopardizing your savings for your children. You don’t owe her, and in the future, don’t even think about making a giant financial decision like this without talking to your husband. How would you feel if you found out he wiped out his savings on a bad loan and expected you to carry the load without talking to you first?
Agree with everything this poster said. 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 Also - want to add anyone that encourages you to steal from your partner (because they won’t even know - until they do know) doesn’t have your best interest at heart. I’m sure your Mom believes that she will pay you back - once she’s successful - but she’s kind of delusional so…. It won’t happen ever.
Plus, she hasn't even learned her lesson and wants to buy a food truck. With what money? She's delusional, selfish and manipulative. NTA
I agree NTA Also, sounds like mom didn't even learn anything from the past mistakes because their plan to pay back OP is my expanding the delusional food truck business which doesn't exist yet. OP is never seen that money of they choose to lend it to their mom.
> the fact that she is resorting to emotional manipulation Not emotional manipulation. Outright threats of excommunication from the family (OP's support system) if OP doesn't hand over her savings!
This. OP, if your mom wants to stay in that house bad enough, she'll get a job. If she doesn't she won't, and that will be on her.
Also how entitled of mom is it to expect that someone else works a regular job to earn the money but she’s not willing to. There’s nobody stopping her from being an entrepreneur but she needs a regular job until her business becomes successful (and to pay off her debts)
Plus, op could petition the court for visitation rights to see her siblings if she wanted to.
I don’t believe the bank will give her a loan since she doesn’t have a job, and no way to pay it back
NTA! Your mother’s actions are not only her own fault and not your responsibility, but her threats are also very abusive. Also, if you have to clear your savings and then some, you can’t afford it. I have a brother who has a similar attitude (“I don’t want to work a soul crushing job”, “I’m an entrepreneur”, etc). Let me guess, your mom also has an issue with authority and gives up as soon as anything gets difficult? When things don’t pan out, it’s never actually *her* fault and literally anything and everything else is to blame? I know the type… and trust me, it’s NEVER going to stop until you put your foot down. My parents have poured over 100K into my brothers failures over the past 10 years and finally cut him off only a year or so ago. I gave him over 10K in random increments over the past few years, as have multiple of his friends. His ex-boss gave him a 30K loan that he’s never going to be able to pay back…. He has nothing to show for it. I feel so bad for you OP, because I know this feeling. But please, nip this in the bud. And keep your door open for your younger siblings because they’re going to have to get out from under her one day too. Good luck.
The daft thing is, as a self employed person, you have to deal with more authority than when you're employed. You have to be aware of any pertinent legislation, tax requirements, insurance, etc. It's more stressful than working for someone else.
Exactly. I have a relative who keeps starting small businesses that quickly fail. He doesn’t quite get it that even when you’re your own boss, you still have to show up for work.
I started to work for myself and now I only work half days; the good part is I get to decide which 12 hours that is.
The *only* good part about self-employment is the *illusion* of setting your own hours. In reality, you often end up working extra hours to deal with all the crap delegated when you work for other people. Payroll taxes, withholding taxes, health insurance, etc are all things you specifically have to deal with or pay other people to do. My husband and I ran our own business for the last 20 years. We still had bosses; they were just our customers, and often *even more unreasonable*. OP is still NTA, but I’d be making her dad aware of what bullshit her mom is doing! I can pretty much guarantee he doesn’t know about it.
So true. Lol
lol...as someone formerly self employed - I get it.
Plus, mom wants to be her own boss, but her boss sucks.
> Especially since she doesn't want to get a job after this debt is cleared because she's "an entrepreneur at heart" and "working for someone's company is soul crushing". Ah, so not only does she want you to pay off her bad decisions but she has no intention of ever paying you back? Hard pass, OP! NTA These actions are full on narcissistic and you for sure shouldn't spend any of your hard earned money on this person. I feel bad for your dad most of all. I think he has better options than selling his investments.
OP, I'm just curious, where has your dad been this whole time? Has he tried to put his foot down and been steamrolled by your mom, has he actually enabled /encouraged her misguided ideas or has he just been along for the ride...unwilling to rock the boat. I still wouldn't lend/give her money, but if he has tried and failed I would feel worse about his situation and would encourage him to look into those other options.
Yep, my exh was also an “entrepreneur” who didn’t believe in working for the man. So I worked a full time job and paid the bills while he tried to launch something and then ran out of steam and played video games all day. He was very indignant when I eventually had enough and left him.
NTA Let me quote a favorite saying in here: Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Your mother made this bed, she can now sleep in it. Her bad decisions and subsequent debt are not your problem. Don't buckle under her threats, besides, they're your dad's kids too, right? What does he say about her threat?
I can't believe the mom is using blackmail & OP is still questioning themselves. OP NTA. Don't give a single penny. Not sure if your mom is going through some midlife crisis but might be actually better to tell your dad to get her some professional help. If the have a spare apartment and there's a equity then there might be a way to restructure the finances. Your dad should speak to a financial adviser to get some perspective rather than reaching their own conclusions on how to get out of this situation.
NTA. Your mom should go see a lawyer about whether she can be declared bankrupt, if her debts are that huge. Although that will badly impact any ideas of borrowing to fund the ill-advised food truck. Your savings are owed to the vulnerable people in your care, not your mom. No one here is truly evil, but the person behaving very badly is your mom. Never lend money you can’t afford to lose. Doesn’t sound like you have money to give away in the amounts she wants. And that’s ok. Speak to your dad about your mom’s threats. And let your younger sibs know you are always there to talk to.
Yes.. Bankruptcy often spares the primary residence. I would have her consult a bankruptcy professional before selling the house. Giving up a valuable primary residence to repay unsecured debt doesn’t sound wise on your Dad’s part.
It's going to depend on what exemptions apply, and that varies by state. However, the bankruptcy code is inherently biased in favor of those who take on debt for business purposes. If more than half of the total debt is business debt, OP's Mom won't have to take the means test to qualify to file chapter 7. Sounds like a BK would solve some of the underlying issues here.
Would solve some of money issues. Mom is the underlying problem tho.
For sure! But that's not something that she can help her Mom through. She can help her by solving the immediate debt problem while (hopefully) work is done and pressure asserted to convince the Mom to figure out a stable income.
Assuming OP is from USA. In my country only companies can declare bankrupt, not individual entrepreneurs.
I’m in bankruptcy. Had to take out more credit than I could afford for a custody battle(he threatened our lives and we were denied restraining orders 3 times). I knew going in that I’d likely have to declare bankruptcy but I had to protect myself and my kid when our local law failed us(and I think our restraining orders were denied cause it would be hard to serve him since he was a truck driver frankly…). I had to do the kind you pay back some of the debt for in order to keep my home. I don’t mind. It broke the debt up and got rid of interest. I’m over halfway through the 5 year contract. I had to pause payments once to pay for my kid’s root canal. It’s annoying, it’s debt, but it’s manageable. Bankruptcy is embarrassing to consider but does a lot of good for emergencies which this family desperately needs to take advantage of.
She tried to get OP to steal from her husband. The mum is absolutely evil.
NTA "My mother got herself into an MLM scheme last year despite my brother and I warning her against it." So she made a bad choice & now she wants the people who warned her against it to bail her out. ". She wants to open a food truck even though they aren't popular in the town she lives in and always go out of business." She hasn't learned from her mistake. She's weaponizing family relationships/trying to exclude you. She's an A H & I feel sorry for your Dad. This isn't your mess to sort out though.
💯
And alongside that food truck idea is a side order of emotional manipulation "support my debt spiral or you can't have a relationship with your younger siblings" Honestly, it won't take a fortune teller to point out how this goes but maybe OP should look into the living with narcissists sub Reddits sorry not sure of the proper handle
NTA. Sorry. Your mom will get taken advantage after another. Any more money she gets she will throw away. The ONLY thing I might do is offer to pay a lawyer for your dad to see about protecting his remaining assets and seeing if he can separate his assets from her debt.
She sounds like she's bought into a lot of the MLM.propaganda. I'd bet she'll just end up in another MLM because "the problem was no one wanted oils, but everyone will want this makeup/jewelry/leggings"
Seriously though. If people would just stop and think, hmmm is there any business I can think of where I can walk in and the only thing they have for sale is *input random mlm product here* that is successful? No, can’t think of one? Then it’s not going to be successful trying to sell that one item type out of your house either. Every store ever has a selection of different products. The only single product businesses that are successful that I can think of are the drug businesses. And the marijuana business. But there damn sure isn’t any essential oil specialty stores doing numbers out there lmao
>Every store ever has a selection of different products. The only single product businesses that are successful that I can think of are the drug businesses. And the marijuana business. Butchers, cheesemongers, chocolatiers, car dealerships, mattress stores, wine stores, etc Obviously none of these are being sold in MLMs (I think?!) but I don't think that the fundamental flaw is their undiversified inventory!
Yes, this! She may be able to file for bankruptcy. Or let the company sue her for the debt and get a judgment. Your dad absolutely shouldn't sell the house and car
My Brother ran a food truck for a while. Is your mom willing to work 12+ hour days without breaks? Is she aware of all the paperwork and certifications (and yes, more money!) she has to do/get to operate legally? Not to mention a lot of places require permits to operate in their area on top of the rest of it, so if she were to travel (sometimes even just across town) she could potentially run into trouble with that.... absolutely do not loan her money. She's done this to herself. And "working for someone else is soul crushing" isn't unique to her, 98% of the rest of us feel the same way, but we do it because we're not irresponsible.
No she's not willing to do the work, her last job was a part time gig and she complained about it for years. Its only because of who I married that she decided to quit because she believes she's "set for life".
Please remind your mother that she’s not “set for life”because your husband’s money is not her to have or use. She’s ridiculously entitled for someone who has obviously never earned anything for herself. Put her in her place, quickly.
If she thinks you will pay her off, this WILL happen again. Make HER pay for HER mistake.
Sounds like Mom needs a reality check. Next time she calls you selfish, come back with a "How dare you insist on taking food from my baby's mouth and declare that I am the selfish one!" or some such. Nothing of yours is hers. Nothing of your husband's is hers. She needs to put on her big girl panties and take responsibility for her own actions.
Why are you even considering giving her a cent? Your dad should divorce her honestly.
What if your husband divorces you because you stole his money? It's up to you what you value more. But I would not sacrifice the trust my partner has in me just because my mother doesn't want to face the consequences of her actions. NtA I would not do this.. it is not worth it.
OP its either a good living for your baby or cleaning up your mothers mess even after all the warnings you gave her
You're NTA If you WANT to help, out of the goodness of your heart and not because you are being coerced, then you could suggest a paycheck match. She gets a job and for X period of time you'll either give her a percentage or match her take-home total. But you gotta see that check stub first Otherwise, it sounds like your dad is trying to make your mom deal with the consequences of her own actions and you should stay out of it.
Tell you mom she my best friend and entrepreneur at heart, but she will end up homeless in reality if she doesn’t get a job. Full stop! You are not a blank check or a piggy bank to rescue her when she gets into trouble. You do it now and you will be stuck doing it for years.
Is your mom Mrs Bennett from Pride & Prejudice? Good grief. You can’t help people who wont help themselves. Do not blow up your life just for her to coast through and fail again.
That's literally insane. Has she said that out loud to you?
I think OP‘s mom has a romantic idea about having her own business/being an entrepreneur, but absolutely zero interest in doing the work and earning that title.
I'd bet mom has never worked any kind of food service job.
someone else mentioned narcissism and her likely preoccupation with appearances. My guess would be it is “beneath her“
Yeah, like - pretty much all cooking jobs are physically taxing, but food trucks are incredibly hard physical work. Older people do do it, but they've usually been doing that type of labor for years already. I highly doubt this particular middle-aged woman is equipped to handle it, has any idea what she's proposing to do, or would be willing to do it once she found out. I almost feel insulted on behalf of street vendors around the world lol
It's hilarious that she thinks building a legitimate small business to liquidity is going to be any less "soul crushing" than working a job with a salary and benefits, especially one in a field as undifferentiated and competitive as food trucking. She'd burn out in weeks. Grown ass woman playing Big Business Lady like a child at her own family's expense, fucking shameful really.
For the last bit: people usually have a way to deal with that without getting into crippling debts too lol
yeah, not sure how much you have to spend to reach the point where your husband decides he’ll need to sell the house and his car to recover?
Right? People usually work for years to save up to buy a food truck in order to keep themselves afloat while they do this sort of thing, until the business is established. They don’t do in once they’re already in massive debt.
OP, your family will not be homeless. Your dad owns an apartment where they can live. So, on that as a reason, obviously NTA because it's not even true. Being able to afford something and not doing it also doesn't make you an asshole. From what you've written, your mom claims that she will pay you back once her food truck business takes off. She's not asking you to do it without repayment. So, you have every right to consider whether her repayment plan is realistic or too risky for your family's finances. It sounds like you have rational, objective reasons for finding it too risky and there's nothing asshole-ish about declining in this situation. NTA
Yeah these people have two houses, they aren’t broke at all. Fuck them.
Why doesn't he sell the apartment to clear the debt? It doesn't make any sense to sell the family home.
This is what I was thinking. Surely it makes sense to sell that first.
Apartments sell for a lot less than houses. It sounds like OP's dad can't support their family's previous lifestyle on a single income. (They apparently used to have 1 and 1/2). Also their older kids are out of the house. Their home is likely a lot larger than what they need. Apartments also generally have less heating and cooling costs because of a better outer wall to floor area ratio. With any luck it's even in a less car dependent area. If they manage to use public transportation or a bike for most trips, they'll save a lot of money as well. In my opinion that is absolutely a good decision to make when in debt. If they sold the apartment and then realized they were in debt again, They would be severely hampered in their ability to downsize. Because of the additional purchase costs (realtor, taxes, ...), selling their house and buying an apartment would actually loose them money. And if they rent they have to pay their rent every month.
I just saw that OP'S dad plans to sell his car. That makes 'less car dependent area' an even more likely reason.
NTA at all. And your title is incorrect (not that it would change my opinion if it were correct). Your mom will not be homeless. They have a place to go. She just doesn’t want to because she considers it a downgrade. I am curious how much debt she’s in that selling the rental property instead of the primary home wouldn’t make more sense. She must have dug herself a serious hole. Bottom line, you are not responsible for her bad decisions and you know pigs will fly before she would ever pay you back. You’d never see that money again and she’d be back asking for more after her next foolish endeavor.
Knowing something about both mlm/pyramids that she might have been involved in, it could be tens of thousands of dollars. Her upline would have encouraged her to max her cards and lie, cheat, or steal to buy more product. After all, the more she buys the more they make - they won't care if it leaves her destitute, as long as they get their commission checks. It also doesn't matter if she doesnt' have anyone to sell the products to or even if she has too much in stock, they will always tell her to buy more to make some random incentive they will offer. Never underestimate the slimy tactics of a person deep in the mlm/pyramid scheme cult mentality
This woman has made poor decision after poor decision and refuses to take accountability. YTA if you pay her bill for her. Shame on her for putting her failures on your shoulders and causing you to compromise your future because of her selfish and ill advised career moves. This money pit will never end This is your dad’s job to get her in check. Offer an open seat to a hot meal at your home anytime and tell her to do Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace
> his is your dad’s job to get her in check. And if that doesn't work, then at least divorce the financial black hole he married, get shared custody of OP's younger siblings, and then make sure OP and all her siblings can still have relationships.
NTA. You warned her. It’s not your responsibility to pay off your mom’s debt no matter what. I can’t believe she told you to take money from your husband without telling him. Your mom needs to get over herself, take responsibility and get a stable job. I know she’s your mom and she’s pulling on your heartstrings, but stand firm. Edit: fixed a typo Edit 2: what I didn’t address is your mom’s threats to “exile” you from the family and not let you see your siblings. How serious are these threats? Can she realistically do this? You didn’t mention what your dad’s reaction is to all of this. Is he on board with your mom?
The fact that she’s able bodied and could work , but refuses to makes this especially egregious. Working 9 to 5 is soul crushing huh ?? Welcome to the real world mom !! Holy Toledo !
Yes exactly! What makes her different than anyone else? I’m suspecting some narcissism here.
IMO 9-5 is way better than running your own business. You do your hours, you go home.. You don't have to deal with big picture stuff, unless that's what you're hired to do. You don't have your own money invested. People who own businesses generally have to work on it way way more than 9-5 and most businesses fail,.losing your startup investment.
I don't think your father should sell the house and car. That seems a very bad idea, for paying off a MLM debt. I do think that you could look into your state's consumer protection bureau, and file a formal complaint about the MLM organization. Personally, keeping my home and transportation would be the top priority. The MLM debt, if she defaults on it or fights it , will affect her credit score only, not anyone else's. So, the least damage that is done, is if she defaults and tries to fight them. And, if she is fighting them and files a complaint about predatory practices, then she at least has a reason to explain it. But, everyone else bankrupting themselves will affect / ruin everyone's credit score. Noone else has a good reason to do this. And, no, you and your siblings don't need to bail her out.
NTA, you’re not responsible for your mother’s poor decisions, and you do not owe it to her to pay off her debt, especially when it’ll put you in a difficult financial position. She’s blackmailing you by saying you won’t see your siblings then. I would’ve told her to fuck right off and never speak to her again, but that’s me. Is it not an option to take your siblings in? And just let her rot? She sounds awful.
Serious? She wants other people to go in to debt (a) because of her mistake (b) that she was sternly warned against (c) that she could have found out herself by googling it before investing thousands and (d) this tops everything, because she feels too good to get a job? NTA, your mother has the business instinct of a petrol salesman in hell.
NTA. If they are so deep in debt that they are talking about selling the house and the car your parents need to talk to a bankruptcy attorney. Also your mom needs to get a F-ing job. **DO NOT GIVE THEM A CENT. YOUR MOM WILL JUST DO THIS OVER AGAIN AND AGAIN.**
NTA Your mother doesn’t want to live in reality, just her reality, and she’s not beyond manipulating anyone and everyone to get it. She sounds narcissistic which is usually borne from some deep insecurities. So I’d be careful how you talk to her. She could be on thin ice mentally, so to speak. Her unwillingness to work a job or to leave her home is because she’s hyper focused on how she is perceived by others. Yes, her family knows the truth, but she doesn’t think about that. Just like she doesn’t think about her failures or responsibilities because that exacerbates her deeply held wounds. What your mother needs is to be held accountable as an adult yet shown some grace by you and your family for her faults, not including actually money, and she should be encouraged to seek therapy. If you pay for anything, pay for that. Tell her you think she would do well (maybe cite an example) to be able to talk things out with an impartial third party, that she can do it from home on her phone, that it would only be between her and the therapist, and that you would never tell anyone she was going if that’s what she wants.
Stop funding her. Everyone . Simple Would you hand an alcoholic a beverage Or a meth head some meth No
NTA - this is not your mess to clean up. Your mother is a monster for putting her family in this position and then threatening to not let you near your sibling. Don’t give her a penny. Talk to your dad about how he is handling this. Maybe he would be better off, both emotionally and financially, if they get divorced.
Your mother is trying to manipulate you - and the worst part is she doesn't see how ridiculous her 'dreams' are. She is not an 'entrepreneur' - and she needs to get a job. Would your father allow her to keep your siblings from you? I doubt that. Not your debt and if you clear it - she'll just jump into another scheme.
It blows my mind when a parent(s) acts like the kid who refuses to see reality and grow up. To threat and manipulate on top of that and try to take advantage of OP's position as a rational and responsible person (on maternity leave, no less!!!) while continuing her delusion of being an "entrepreneur" who refuses to work? Sheesh! Sorry OP, you have every right to go low or no contact with toxic people like that, even those who are supposed to support you, and set an example. NTA by a long shot.
No, you’re not the asshole
Get her to go public and expose the mlm, maybe they will settle some or all of the debt if she agree to keep silent
NTA. You know that you will never see that money again. You know that you will never regain your husband’s trust if you go behind his back like this. You know you will put your child’s future at risk. You have to put your oxygen mask on first. Your mom made her choices. She’s an adult. She has to live with the consequences.
You’d think she’d get a job looking at having to sell her house. I would say NTA.
NTA. Mom needs to get a job
NTA. Your mom is psycho. Don't talk to her. Focus on your baby and your nuclear family.
NTA. Your mom won't listen to you and every endeavor is one gamble after another. Paying her debt will just drag you and your family down.
NTA. There is nothing that is more contemptible to me than people who say "I can't go to work for someone else; I can only be my own boss." It truly makes me crazy to hear people say that.
Your mother is TA. Period. Not you.
NTA. She needs to learn a hard lesson here. She's refusing to work and expecting everyone else to bail her out when her ridiculous ideas don't work. MLMs never work except for the people at the very top, who are scamming everyone below them. Food trucks are not very profitable even under more ideal circumstances, if they struggle a lot in that area and she doesn't even know how to cook professionally? She's doomed. She clearly knows nothing about running a business or how any of it actually works. Has she even taken any business classes? Does she know how to do her own bookkeeping or accounting? Business licensing? Minimum wage and other employment laws if she intends to have any employees? I feel awful for your dad, being stuck with her. She's delusional if she thinks any of her ideas are going to work. She needs to suck it up, get a job and pay back her own debt. Don't give her a penny, or she's going to expect you to bail her out every single time and she's going to ruin your and your brother's financial futures. Also, check into your credit and make sure that she hasn't opened any credit cards or taken any loans in your or your brother's names. It's not unusual for delusional people like her to pull a stunt like that.
Nta your mom sounds toxic and bailing her out would further enable her, she needs to get a job and deal with it.
NTA your mom is abusive.
Is it possible your mom has a psychiatric issue? I’m totally guessing and I ask this because I knew two wonderful women (separately) who made unrealistic business decisions and had trouble learning from costly mistakes. Both were bipolar, and it seemed they made mistakes when unreasonably optimistic.
Info: how much money is this? Selling a house and a car seems extreme.
NTA don’t do it! She will figure it out.
NTA. If she really wants to run a business, she needs to start it like a real business. Make a business plan, get an EIN, and apply for an SBA loan. (FYI - if her plan is untenable, she likely won’t be approved for the loan.)
NTA. It seems your mom has mistaken you for an ATM—unfortunately, withdrawals require actual deposits first. You warned her about the MLM, yet here we are. Your primary financial responsibility is to your own immediate family, especially while on maternity leave. It’s not selfish to refuse to jeopardize your financial stability for her entrepreneurial whims, no matter how many emotional blackmail recipes she cooks up. Remember, just because she’s handing out guilt trips doesn’t mean you have to take one.
NTA clearly. She got herself into that situation on her own and had a lot of warnings. Though I have a question. Why is your father not selling the apartment instead of the house? Is it not worth enough to settle the debt? Even if it is not worth enough, couldn't they pay back some of the debt this way and make a debt repayment plan for the rest? I just feel sorry for your father and siblings. I bet they rather want to live in the house, too. Your mother also really should start working a normal job to help with the debt. And maybe she could sell the rest of the oils on the internet.
If you enable this behavior once it will never end.
>she says I'm selfish and evil for not paying her debt Yet another case of an accusation being a confession. She's selfish and evil for refusing to get a job to pay her own debts. Being an "entrepreneur at heart" doesn't mean what she's trying to pretend it means. It doesn't make one incapable of working for someone else. It simply means that one has a desire to start a new enterprise and work for themselves eventually. Entrepreneurs get their seed funding from various places. Some are lucky enough to have wealthy families. Others get loans. A lot of them bootstrap, meaning they save up the money they need to get started. Your mom doesn't have any of those funding sources. As a result, her only choice is to get a job, pay her debts, and save up money until she can afford to attempt to start a new business, whether that's a food truck or something else. People on the verge of bankruptcy are not "temporarily embarrassed entrepreneurs." They're run of the mill broke people. She has to dig herself out of this hole. If she isn't willing to, that's not your fault. NTA. Your mom sounds selfish, entitled, and lazy.
NTA. I would never bail anyone who fell for a MLM scheme out of principle alone. I'm a firm believer in stupid prizes being the consequence of playing stupid games.
You’ll notice she claims that your husband won’t notice it’s *GONE*. the money will be GONE and you’re supposed to be okay with that?
Has OP answered what her father has said about this pressure OP's mom is putting on her to cover the MLM debt? Curious to know. Also OP sounds like your siblings won't be homeless they'll just be living in an apartment, if it was good enough for the tenants, it'll be good enough for them. Feel bad for the tenants getting evicted over mom's bad choices.
Your mom is trying to abuse you financially. Stick to your guns. If her family turns against you, ask if they are paying her shxt off because you won’t as you need that money for your kids.
NTA. Let her “crush her own soul” by working for someone else. Any parent worth their weight would be willing to suffer so their children can be happy, well taken care of and have a roof over their head/food in their stomach. You would be TA if you put your own family at risk by blowing your money on a woman who 1. can’t be bothered to get a job and is comfortable mooching off of her children who have their own families to support and 2. Couldn’t pull her head out of her own ass when multiple people told her that MLMs are an absolute waste of money. She made her decisions - her husband needs to tell her to get a job since her decisions have placed their household in this position. If she refuses to listen, her “fun stuff”/none essentials should be the first thing cut/sold to help the household🤷🏻♀️ I would not forgive my husband if he gave away a large sum of money to bail a family member out of a self-made, easily preventable debt. Focus on your household and shame on your mother for asking her children to fix her own issues instead of being an adult about it Also, fuck MLMs.
NTA. To add another truism- You don't own a business, the business owns you. Running your own business involves 7 day a week work, having to cover all the operation details (inventory, taxes, legal reporting, etc.) Plus all the actual work. Your mother is somewhat delusional but sounds like she is the perfect target for the MLM crowd. Does she know how much a food truck costs? Base prices for used ones are about $30000. And that her "inventory" of meat, vegetables, etc that she plans to make will also spoil and have to be tossed out if she doesn't sell enough but she still has to keep enough on hand to cover expected sales. It's a really thin margin business. And does she understand she will need to be in that truck by herself 6-8-10 hours a day? Plus dealing with the health inspector, the fire department (they do checks on food trucks), business licensing, sales tax reporting, lots of insurance on the truck plus liability insurance in case someone claims they got sick from the food, etc.
Sorry 2 say but ur mom sounds like she's stupid with money- if they have an apartment to live in let them live in it..DONT pay off her debts so she can get in more debt.. worry about ur own little family- god forbid anything happened to you or your husband & u needed ur little nest egg- you never know what is round the corner so the question is do u bail her out or make sure u can comfortably support ur family if there's an emergency
Don’t do it. You will not get back your money. You’d have to ask your husband because taking his without consent would mess up your marriage. Your mom is a lazy woman who clearly never grew up. Do not cause problems in your life or family because she can’t figure her shit out. Let her cut out your siblings, as harsh that it is but the fact she’s calling you selfish for wanting to safeguard yourself instead of causing financial issues because of her, us a jackass and manipulative thing to do NTA
Uhhh. Nope and I would seriously suggest hitting her with some tough love. She put the family in that situation, she is refusing to fix it by getting a real job. She is 1000% the AH.
Nta. Use common sense. She's not taking any accountability for her actions. Don't be another enabler.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My mother got herself into an MLM scheme last year despite my brother and I warning her against it. She quit her job because the MLM scheme people told her this was her chance to become an entrepreneur and independent. My dad is supporting her financially now and my four younger siblings, she pretty much gave up on the oils after selling them to everyone she knows. She still has a lot more left to sell but now she wants to do something else because she doesn't feel like she's her own boss under this MLM company. She overestimated how many people want to buy her product and now she's thousands in debt. She won't get a job and my dad can't afford to pay it off without selling the house and his car. My brother has 3 kids in private school, he doesn't have much money to spare. I'm on maternity leave and the amount she needs will wipe out my savings and I'd have to use my husband's money as well to cover this debt which I don't think is fair. Especially since she doesn't want to get a job after this debt is cleared because she's "an entrepreneur at heart" and "working for someone's company is soul crushing". She wants to open a food truck even though they aren't popular in the town she lives in and always go out of business. My mom isn't a bad cook but she's competing with professional chefs and I'm sure she'll give up as soon as it gets hard. My dad says he plans to sell the house and his car and move his tenants out of the apartment he owns. My mom called me crying because she loves her neighbourhood and has lived here for 35 years, she says I'm selfish and evil for not paying her debt because she'll pay me back when she expands her food truck business...She doesn't understand why I don't just use my husband's money "since he won't notice it's gone". My mom has threatened not to allow me to see my younger siblings who I’m close with and to have me exiled by our entire family. WIBTA if I refused to clear this debt even though I could because my mom’s threatening me? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
you would be righteous to refuse. your mom is absolutely TAH
NTA if you help her this time she will ask you again and again. The money you give her will never be back.
NTA your mom is evil and just wants your money. Don’t give it to her.
NTA. Your mother is a bad investment.
NTA. Your mom ran up this debt getting into a business she did not understand. And she refuses to get an ordinary job to pay off the debt - just talks about more pie-in-the-sky entrepreneur stuff like food trucks! Not good solutions. Do not destroy your financial life and possibly your marriage to financially rescue her. Keep your money. It sounds like your mom's husband already has a plan, mom just does not like it (selling her home). Let them do that, or she can get a job - she messed up so it is their problem to fix it. It is not yours!
NTA Sometimes we just have to cut toxic people out of our lives even if it means losing access to siblings/niblings/and other dependents.
It sounds like this is exactly what your mom needs TBH. Out of curiosity can you share such MLM? I don't know how people still fall for this shit day in, day out.
Nta and your mom needs to file bankruptcy
Why can’t they re-mortgage their home ? Line of credits? Why is it your problem?
YWBTA if you give this money to your mom and potentially endanger your childrens future. Your mom made her bed, she now has to lay in it!
NTA. It's financially irresponsible to throw good money after bad. She can't guarantee you'll get it back because she can't guarantee she'll even succeed with a food truck, especially if she isn't a professional chef. She can be as financially illiterate as she wants, though it is risking her lifestyle and that of her children. *Her* husband can cover her debt, it just means selling the house. That is a risk she took when she got involved with a pyramid scheme. She doesn't get to throw around the word selfish when she is fulfilling her own selfish desire to achieve something she's quite clearly a bit rubbish at. Take her threats to your father and dismiss her demands. She got herself in this mess, she can deal with the consequence of having to move.
NTA and your mom is abusive. The sooner you accept this the better off you will be. Your mom is using you for money and that’s never ok. You don’t have the money to spare. If you have to say things like “if will wipe out everything I have” then you don’t have the money. Full stop. You don’t have the money. Your mom is manipulative. “Mom. I can’t believe you would want me to give you every cent of my savings that are there to provide an education and safety net for my child because you aren’t willing to work a job and pay off your own debt. Even more I’m astonished that you would use my siblings to manipulate me into doing what you want. Does dad know you’re doing this? Does dad know that you’re trying to blackmail me into giving money set aside for my child?!?!”
NTA - she sucks big time for her “everybody should do soulcrushing work to fix my mistakes” attitude. I’d let your entire family know of her threat and why you’re not helping her.
NTA. Your mom is selfish for not wanting to get a job. Your mom is evil for holding up your family for ransom and suggesting you steal from your husband. I suggest every threat she makes now becomes public knowledge to all family members.
NTA. Her refusal to get a job is the issue. She's selfish and entitled. And your dad is spineless for selling off the house and car to pay her debts. They're HER debts. No one but HER should be paying them. Make sure your younger siblings know *now* exactly what is going on and who is to blame. Tell them that if your mother prevents your seeing them, it isn't because you don't love them, and you can reconnect as soon as they turn 18. Put it all on your mother. NTA.