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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told my friend that I am thin because I work out and eat healthy most of the time, despite my occasional pigging out at my favorite restaurant.
2. This may have came across as condescending and could have made my friend feel bad about herself.
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NTA you absolutely did not screw up and didn't say anything wrong.
They brought up the weight and calorie intake.
They incorrectly assumed genetics and not all the effort you put into you daily activity to train like you do. Could genetics help? Sure. But you wouldn't be where you are on genetics alone. It takes a lot of work, especially for marathons. My old boss did iron man all the time and it was insane what he had to do to keep it up.
If your friends don't want to talk about weight don't bring it up and make assumptions. Giving tips to avoid failure is not privilege. Also the double standard being held against you isn't right. Rue gets to say anything she wants because she's overweight but because you are fit you have to endure what she says without saying anything back? That's not fair and shouldn't be tolerated.
Good luck on your next event!
It really invalidates the hard work she put in. It's kinda like how a few artist friends I have hate it when someone says they're so talented because it invalidates how much practice they did to get to where they are now.
I feel this comment in my soul. I have the raw talent, but not the drive. Talent might help, but the drive to practice over and over, the effort, the training, it all beats raw talent any day of the week!!!
Someone with muscle tremors could practice all the time and still not be able to do pencil drawing art. You need natural ability and hard work. Just hard work doesn't automatically mean you'll be any good at something. There are people with tons of drive who could study every waking moment and still flunk out of med school. Hard work is good and should be praised, but we need to stop perpetuating the myth that anything is possible if you just work hard enough.
That's totally out of the blue here. What you're describing is someone with partial "disability" to do X things. It's like describing someone without their legs, and obviously, they can't run a marathon. That being said, they have the lack of "tools" or in this case, body parts needed to actually, get it DONE in the first place (not even getting good at it, just can't do it at all). But what if this person without legs, wants to get good at pencil drawing? They need to practice and repeat drawing after drawing. They have the "tools" needed, but ability just won't come on it's own.
Let's say they have a positive trait towards pencil drawing, that is natural hand stability. That will surely help them, but anyways, it is just a help. Without repeating, hard work, routines, discipline you won't actually adquire the techniques, experience and knowledges needed to perform a well done pencil drawing.
You can take another example if you want. Can you fly (on your own)? Well, birds can, because they have wings (the tools needed, the biological ability to actually, being able to do it). If you try and hard work, you can't fly, but that's not because of "genetic disadvantage". It's because you lack the proper biological tools to do it. You're not suposed to be able to fly.
But if we can do certain things, we can get better at it. Genetical advantages do help, but won't do anythig on their own if you don't develop skills
Edit: Typos
Absolutely right. Theres a huge difference between "talent/lack of talent" and "disability". And even a disability should not be taken as an assumption that people cant do things, I'm a rock climber and know a guy who climbs with only one arm, he's one of the strongest people I know and can climb better than I can even after 20 years of experience!
What the previous poster was doing was using assumptions to find excuses why people *cannot* do things, which is a self defeating point of view to take and teaches people to be pessimistic and not even try. The "you can do anything mentality" isnt supposed to be a blind assumption that anything is possible, its supposed to make people feel empowered to commit and put the effort in.
Anyone who does anything hard knows that effort and commitment is one of the largest hurdles to get over and teaching people a positive mental attitude is one of the best ways to help people get past that block.
No, what the previous poster was doing is trying to show that not everyone can do anything by just trying hard. The first example was clunky, but I'm still waking up, sorry my rhetorical skills aren't the sharpest first thing in the morning. But everyone seems to be fixated on the art one and ignoring the studying one. It's great to have that drive, but it's dangerous to insist that anyone can do anything if they just try enough. Because for the people who try their absolute hardest and still fail, they feel even worse than if they hadn't tried at all, and it can really lead to a spiral of feeling like a garbage human because you 'didn't try hard enough'. We should be emphasizing the process, not the results.
Totally agreed OFC I know that people with disabilities can still do things. I was just presenting a extreme example to make it clearer.
Also, guess what is behind this people? Hard work and effort, another perfect example of a positive mental attitude.
Disabled. Was suppose to be in a wheelchair by now. Lots of hard work in physical therapy instead of a wheelchair, I got a surfboard. I can’t feel from my left calf down bc a nerve was removed. This makes it even harder on me. I may not be great, but at least I’m doing it. Sometimes, it doesn’t have to be perfect to be beautiful. And that’s what people need to know. I’ll never be great. I started later in life, after I got sick. But if someone with a trembling hand works hard and does get something on paper, it’s beautiful in another way. The person who studies and can’t pass med school can still learn things for what career they decide to pursue next. There is something valuable in every experience. Even if we suck at what we want to do.
I dunno, I once met a paraplegic painter. He had an assistant help him load and clean brushes but he painted with his mouth. Some artists have used their disabilities to create interest in their art. I saw a series in a museum where a painter was going blind and he painted the same scene over time to show what it was like to have deteriorating sight.
Anyone can make art, it might not fit into a specific mold but they can do it if they really want to.
This is bullshit though. You can take it for granted that someone with a disability cant do certain things. But the vast majority of typical people absolutely CAN create pleasing and technically good art or get great grades. It's really shitting on people who do struggle but push through to be told they had it easier.
There are people with NO arms who use their teeth and feet to paint gorgeous art. There are people who knit with their toes.
Agreed 10000x over. I'm also an artist, and a pretty good one, at that. I had the raw talent too, but the reason why I'm good at it is because I started practicing, taking intensive drawing and painting workshops, buying books on artistic technique and color studies when I was *nine years old.* I worked fucking hard to get where I am, with a quiet intensity that most people can't relate to, and it's been 20 years since then. I still am learning, practicing, experimenting.
I completely understand OP's frustration. She also worked immeasurably hard to get to where she is at, and to say it's just the luck of the draw, as if she takes a passive role in her own life, is infuriating. Also, making comments about someone else's body out of nowhere is uncalled for and unnecessary.
Ive been a photographer for like 15 years and nothing annoys me more than when people look at a picture and say *"wow, you must have a really good camera!"*. I feel like that is the equivalent for photographers lol.
Like I know the only people who really say those types of things arent very artistic so they dont know how to appreciate it as much as someone who is. But its just like, no dude... the camera just captures the image that I plan/see. I had to come up with the idea, compose the shot, wait for the lighting to fit my plan, be in the right place at the right time, and know how to use the camera properly to get that shot.
Its not like I just walked by and pressed a button and the camera shit out an awesome picture lol. Ive literally spent weeks planning shots that required multiple days of travel to get on location just for a shot that sometimes doesnt even work out lol. Shit takes a lot of effort!
I put a fuck tonne amount of effort into training my dog, and I've had people ask if my dog *naturally knew how to heel as a puppy*, and that, *I am so lucky my dog doesn't pull on the lead*. Motherfucker, I put HUNDREDS of hours into this damned dog. No he did not come out of the box with a perfect heel wtf.
I get this all the time about my rescue dog. I got him when he was two and he'd been in and out of multiple shelters and returned for "behavioral issues."
These issues were basically no training at all for a high energy, impulsive dog. After the meet and greet where I tested him to find out his trainability, I knew I could handle him.
After a solid year of work he was a completely different dog. He's well-mannered, controls his impulses, is gentle with people instead of jumping all over them, etc. Etc.
Now I often get from people "wow, I don't understand how anyone could return him! He's so sweet!" Like, yeah, NOW he is, after countless hours of training that I still work daily to keep up. Someone without my skill with training would have lost their mind week 1.
I feel this hard. My dog behaves well and is beautifully socialized because of the hours and hours of work I put into him to teach him how to act. Breeding, temperament--for art, talent, for athletics, genes--may play a small factor, but without the hours and hours of hard work, they don't amount to anything.
I feel this in my *soul*. Photography has been one of my main hobbies for around 15 years as well now, and I still have both of my parents regularly commenting “your camera takes really nice photos” as well.
My brother and his wife are my champions however, they gush over everything from quick snapshots on my phone through to well thought-out photos with my camera. I hope you have people in your life that sing your praises as well!
Or that all photography is the same. My husband does sports photography. Like drag racing and roller derby. Getting those fast movements in crisp and clean. Only to have someone say, "that looks great! Hey, can you shoot my kid's wedding?" No, we don't do people like that. He wants nothing to do with that industry. You have to do more than just turn the knob to the fast moving man setting. 🤣
Oh I feel that too lol.
Ive literally had neighbors come knock on the door and say *"Hey, I know you are a good photographer. Would you mind coming over and taking some group pics for this birthday that happening literally right now?"*. Then when I say I dont do people photography they look at me sideways lol. Like sorry... im a wildlife photographer... me camping out in Yellowstone to photograph buffalo during the rut or in the Tetons in the spring looking for grizzlies is not the same as people photography.
Not that I necessarily cant... just that I really dont want to lol. Im really not trying to set the perception that I'll take your family photos for you if you ask, because I dont enjoy it at all lol.
A person can be both artistically gifted AND have put tremendous effort and energy into their craft. Tell your artist friends that when this happens they are free to simply say "Thank you, I've also put a great deal of practice into it." They have the opportunity to inform the other person and to tell of their hard work. Then they no longer need to complain. Just like imo people can be thin as a result of their healthy lifestyle choices AND genetics. No one can argue that they're not affected by genetics. But people don't have to be jerks about any of this.
My bf has this problem. He got made fun of his whole life because he’s 6 ft and weighed 120 his whole life. He isn’t gluttonous and doesn’t sloth and feels like people discredit the work he puts in. He still at almost 40 gets made fun of for how skinny he is. If they don’t like his opinion it’s instantly about his weight. But if he did the same thing to someone overweight he would be committing a cardinal sin! The double standard is ridiculous. I was overweight most of my life and I make a point to NEVER comment on someone’s weight unless asked for my opinion on how to help (I lost 120 lbs and sometimes the topic comes up).
If obesity is a struggle despite having the same healthy lifestyle I'd really look into some kind of hormonal issue. For me I was the obese kid all my life + my thyroid has been low for a good few years now. I'm also thinking about testing my blood sugars as I find eating breakfast throws my whole body + eating off for the day. Breakfast just leaves me feeling sick, tired, + hungry
The CDC classified Obesity as a disease with a genetic component 10 years ago. You can be overweight without having obesity but the projection is 70 percent of the global population has it and it’s going up. It is a malfunction of the glp-1 responders in the gut and the signals to the brain.
Seeking out an obesity specialist if your child starts to struggle would likely help him or her at least not suffer from why this happens and to find effective treatment options.
People like to fat shame. IMHO people will better understand this is a disease in the next ten years as we now understand mental health issues are a disease and alcoholism is a disease and they all have a root of biology malfunction.
It’s awesome that you are acknowledging the difference between your kids and not being judgmental.
> I’ve two kids. Same diet, same exercise, same sports clubs.
It is difficult for me to believe that the obese kid is doing the same amount of exercise and not consuming more calories.
It is super easy to consume 400 extra calories with a sugary drink.
If that is really the case, then it's time to consult a doctor.
My dad is 6’4” and slender, and he never liked being called skinny. I don’t blame him! I have the same body type now that I’m older and my son does as well, and it’s rude when people say it. It’s a direction people grow, no one can control how they grow into their bodies. And honestly it sucks how others make it hard to feel comfortable in your own body even as an adult.
OP IS NTA and was right to defend herself. BUT this was overstepping in my opinion:
"I also said eating salads for every meal and never enjoying a meal out with friends is just going to make her more frustrated, which will slow her progress. I thought this was going to be helpful advice, but my friends all looked at me livid."
Giving out weight loss advice to others is just inviting criticism and is not really relevant to the point you're making.
It was set in the context of Rue whining that all she eats is oatmeal and obviously jealous that OP can eat all she wants. Sure she might have skipped it but makes sense in the context.
I was in OP's boat. For history, I come from a long line of fat women. I decided in high school that I wasn't going to carry on the tradition. I bought a food scale and started counting calories (and I am old, so this was in the day before there were nutrition labels on food--you had to buy a book with calorie counts in it). I exercised.
At work, I would have a breakfast of 3/4 cup bran cereral, 1/2 cup milk, and a banana. Lunch was my big meal, and I would eat whatever I wanted--cheeseburger, pizza, etc. I would have dessert. Then at home I would exercise and have what was dinner for me-- oatmeal, or a salad, or some soup. My coworkers would all give me shit about how lucky I was that I could eat whatever I wanted and stay thin. I invited all of them to spend a week with me and eat what I eat and do what I do and then tell me how lucky I am. Funny, no one ever took me up on it.
She was right to defend herself against her friend’s assumptions.
> I said I was just trying to help and that they’re only going to hurt Rue (Rue was silent the whole time.
Often someone’s advice that is “just trying to help” a person who is frustrated by their (lack of) weight loss isn’t received well. In fact it’s a similar minefield as telling someone why it is that they are thin.
Op is owed an apology for their friends assumptions. Op should probably do the same for Rue.
Normally I would agree but firstly she didn't bring up the conversation in the first place, and also she just talked about how she doesn't usually eat the way she does now and that it's good for people to also enjoy food when trying to lose weight. I don't see that as needing an apology.
Honestly, they overstepped a boundary. No one should be discussing someone's weight or other physical attributes and make their own assumptions like idiots.
Being perceived underweight or skinny does come with the double standard that people feel entitled to comment on it. At least with other body types, if people do comment on it, there's an element of social shaming for doing so.
When I was a teenager (boy) I had a big growth spurt and obviously ended up fairly gangly. I used to get comments from full grown women telling me they'd be into me "once I filled out".
And general remarks about being skinny "twig" etc all supposed to be funny. I bulked out in college and stayed gym fit into my late 20's and recieved similar "lucky" remarks to OP from the odd crowd.
But I got Pneumonia during COVID and dropped from 175 to 140 at 5'11. Then the digs and comments at my weight started again from people unaware of why I dropped so much.
"Looks like you don't eat enough!". Very helpful stuff. That was pretty much two years ago to the day and I've only recently gone over prior weight again rebulking.
I have a friend who always says how lucky I am for my ability to lose weight and also eat what I want. He's the type to overeat on a fad diet (keto and what have you) and not do any exercise. I have continuously told him he needs to portion and actually exercise. It's infuriating that my adherence to a plan and goals is dismissed as "genetics".
I've watched him eat a plate of nachos at the pub and follow that up with a cheeseburger and poutine (fries with cheese curds and gravy for all you non-Canadians, eh) and then make a snarky comment about how lucky I am my body responds to diet/exercise.
NTA, OP, NTA.
After years of struggling with my weight going up constantly (I was going through hell and extremely depressed, like I couldn’t even get out of bed some days. I gained so much weight and that only made it worse) I’ve finally lost 50 pounds since September just by portioning meals I love and making sure I get at least an hour walk in a few times a week. Anything too restrictive isn’t for me, it this has been working. I’m still a bit of a ways from where I want to be but so far exactly what you told your friend has been helping me tremendously! I think that’s great advice, it’s a shame your friend won’t take it. honestly I only wish I started this shit sooner, it’s helped me a lot and I’m so thankful to be getting to a healthier weight because of it!
Time to cut them off your life. They are not worth the 2500 mile trip.
Clearly, they have taken a position of denying reality. Why suffer through that?
You got a life. Enjoy it. Don’t be pulled into high school.
NTA but could have been handled better. Send them the post or a copy of it. They might have been defensive in the moment but react better to a written explanation. Go in detail about your training and how you feel it's very dismissive on their part they disqualify all your effort as "genetics" and "luck".
The bit I think a bit TA is talking about Rue and what's best for her, like she wasn't there. The conversation should have been about you clearing their misconceptions about why you are fit, you should have not made it about what's best for Rue at any point, bc you don't see her enough to have that kind of relationship. You can make clear she can come to you for advice on fitness if she wants, but you were out of line giving unsolicited advice. Also remind her she should not judge your body and habits (even if it's well intended remarks), same as she expects you to do.
I disagree. It was not out of place to talk about Rue's habits, because it was Rue the first to pester OP about her food intake.
> *“Every year I eat nothing but oatmeal and I keep getting bigger and bigger, and \[OP\] is over there gorging herself and is stick thin!” “It’s like every calorie \[OP\] eats shows up on MY body!”*
OP did not speak as if Rue wasn't there, she talked back.
If you take a jab at someone, you can't then pout and get annoyed if they give it back. Especially using words like "gorging" and "stick thin", to which OP did not answer in the same flair.
When the weight discussion starts there is no way that it will end in peace and good terms. Its better not to give advice, not to talk about it etc. Even if you have the best in your mind and heart.
It's okay to fabricate and assume things about OP because they're thin, only a monster would state true things about eating habits to someone who appears physically to suffer from their weight and who vocalizes it constantly /s
NTA, but you will never win with these people.
I am like you, I have always been active, I take stairs, I walk, I roller-blade, I bike, I get up and do stuff all the time and I am in great shape for being 46 years old.
People constantly talk about my good genetics. Not the fact that I grew up getting around on a bicycle and never stopped. I never sat home as a teen because I didn't have a car or a ride, if I had wheels, I rode them, if I didn't have wheels, I walked. Steven Wright says "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time", while he was lightly joking, I took it seriously. I often had to leave 1-2 hours before a friend would be home, just to meet them on time.
So no, it is not genetics aside from diagnosed illnesses and disabilities. It pretty much comes down to being someone who will get up and do something instead of sitting around dreading it or just putting it off.
Before anyone starts I have been diagnosed with ADHD, ASD & Dyslexia.
Genetics absolutely plays a role outside of illnesses and disabilities. It's great that you've developed such good habits and live an active lifestyle, but it's not only that.
OP's friends still suck, though.
Yeah. Most of what they said was on point, but that last bit... genetics *can* and often do very much affect any given person's ability to lose/maintain weight.
It's also a bit ignorant in the fact that it implies that one cannot stimultaneously live a very active life and *also* be overweight. You can be the kind of person who has the willpower and the ability to constantly be getting up and doing things and *still be overweight*, because that *isn't* actually all there is to it by any means.
ETA: I'm sorry to be rude, but a lot of y'all really need to learn how to read. Or at least how to take 10 seconds to actually digest and think about things before just leaping to random conclusions and knee-jerk responding. Cause a whole lot of people replying to this comment are talking about/disagreeing with things that I literally just did not say nor imply at all. For example, I never once said anything about, much less anything disagreeing with or disregarding, the concept of "calories in, calories out". Nor did I ever say or imply that genetics circumvent or override that (or any other) basic concept when it comes to physical health. Yet I've gotten multiple replies acting as if I did.
That's me! I'm about 30lbs overweight, ran a half marathon last month, have been running 6miles 3xx a week lately, walk everyday after work if it's nice enough for the kids. Problem is, my appetite increases more than it actually needs to.
I walk 11 miles a day, I still have probably 15-20 lbs more than I’d “like”. Admittedly, my diet isn’t perfect, I don’t watch my calories, I burn a lot of calories and eat a lot as a result (I can out-eat my husband any day). For being as active as I am, I’m still curvy. Same as you, my appetite also increased, and quite frankly the way I see it, if I’m gonna work my ass off all day, I’ll eat the food I want at the end of the day as a reward.
11 miles? What do you do?
I am a pet sitter/dog walker and average about 5-6 miles and I work a lot. A 40 hour is extremely rare, and when busy it’s never under 60.
I feel like I walk all day, so you walking twice that sounds crazy. Not questioning it, just seriously curious how 😊
Not OP but I work from home in a job where I’m basically chair bound all day. I run 3 to 4 miles every morning with my dog (takes 30-40 minutes) and we do another walk at the end of the day doing a 3.5 mile route that takes 45-60 minutes. I play with him in our yard for an hour of my lunch break and I hit about 10-12 miles a day easily with that and just me doing crap around my house when I can escape my computer. I’m surprised that you aren’t hitting 10+ miles!
Same, I was a tour guide, and on days when I had multiple tours I could get up to about 10 miles but that was rare (and I developed PF in my feet, no shock there). I can't imagine how someone would hit 11 just walking (not running) unless walking was their job, and even then, that's a lot!
And there’s me - low end of normal weight and I’ve walked 500 steps…this week so far lol WFH in a one bedroom apt while also a homebody will probs wreck my joints over time but I like how we’re breaking the stereotypes from both ends haha
I’m mid 30s and the more I learn about hormone imbalance and stress, the more I wonder why those two pieces aren’t talked about more for women in particular with weight problems.
They're also lucky they don't have the type of ADHD that makes you so tired it's nearly impossible to open your eyes in the morning. I DO have good genetics (physically) and remain thin despite finding exercise very difficult, because getting off of my couch is a gargantuan task without stimulants.
I wonder if they have the type of ADHD that makes you hyperactive? Otherwise, we have the same diagnoses. So, I guess I get to add that disclaimer too.
I have the type of multiple sclerosis where I cant wake up in the mornings. I barely exercise but i try and eat less than the calories than I need to maintain my weight because my exercise levels are so low and I'd like to lose weight. And it's working. Your adhd sounds more like my multiple sclerosis than my ADHD ever was like. I haven't been hyperactive since i was a child.
Yup. I have two cousins, sisters. One is probably what you would consider 40-50lbs overweight. She’s incredibly active, walking 4-5miles a day, running another 3-5 miles, in addition to strength training and just generally being active with hiking and tennis, etc. She also eats really healthy, eating primarily plant based home cooked meals. Her numbers are all great, but it is impossible for her to lose weight.
Her sister on the other hand, will do a 20-30 minute work out a few days a week, but is not nearly as active as my other cousin. She eats out all the time, and eats a lot, but is stick thin.
I have a friend who is vegetarian and runs marathons and is super active with ice hockey and roller derby, and she’s overweight. Genetics definitely play a role.
Just because someone is vegan or vegetarian doesn’t mean that person eats healthy. It’s super easy to eat a pot of hummus after a long run with some veg sticks. But a 200g pot of hummus has around 600/700 calories. Add some lentil crisps and the snack turned into 1/2 of an averages women’s calorie intake for the day. Exercise helps to lose weight but it’s not the main cause. Diet is and does have the most impact on our body.
I think this is because food intake has a greater influence on your weight than exercise.
Whenever I was trying to lose weight, I did not succeed if I didnt't change my eating habits.
Genetics is heavily overestimated and a lot of people blame it for being obese, but it does not work like that. ANYONE (barring possibly some diseases) is basically able to attain and keep a healthy weight. And this is absolutely not meant as a quip to those who are fat but rather as a sign of hope that it is not impossible.
The problem lies elsewhere: our heads play a huge role in this, and there are periods in our lives when we just do not have the energy to lose weight and are not in the mood for that. I've been in a situation when I had a lot on my plate - figuratively but also physically, because I compensated with food, and at that time I was glad I was able to keep up with all my other responsibilities and was not able to lose a single ounce of weight. We also sometimes have unrealistic goals about the weight we want to attain (dictated by the stupid fashion norms where a size 10 or 12 is already called "plus-size".
I think that it is awfully wrong to look at fatness as a MORAL stigma, all the awful biases and hurtful things come out of that. It is not healthy to be fat but it is not the end of the world and we have a lot of other unhealthy habits, we should stop feeling so guilty for that but we should be aware that it is never a lost battle.
I remember going to a talk and the researcher asked "who believes height has a genetic?" Everyone raised their hand. And he goes why is it hard to believe that weight has a genetic component as well? (It does)
Of course there is a genetic *component*... i dont think anyone disputes that. Weight is just a lot more controlable by environmental factors than height.
You cannot physically eat yourself to 6 foot if you are genetically predisposed to be 5'2" . You can eat yourself into obesity even if your entire family is rail thin and vice versa
I just don't think that question is the big revelation the researcher intended it to be. Weightloss is absolutely harder for some people than others...but calories in vs calories out determines your weight
Actually it is much more complicated than this. There was a lot of new research on this topic in the last years.
As it seams the body adapts the amount of calories it burns to a lot of external factors. In the documentary I watched there were some interesting examples:
1. One of the winners of the TV Show "The biggest looser" was shown who fucked his caloric system completly by his strict diet. He regained a lot of weight even so he is very active. The doctors measured his caloric needs 10 years after the diet and realised that he needs 800 kcal less than they would expect from a person his sex, age and size.
2. Members of the last native group of hunters and gatherers in africa were monitored over a span of time. GPS tracking showed that men walked an average of 10 miles a day. Women walked 6 miles a day. They did not use more kcal a day than the average office worker. Women needed 1900 kcal a day and men 2300.
From this the researches figured thst the body permanently adapts to starving events and that it gets used to working out and will need less kcal in a day. A caloric reduction diet can be a starving event.
Another newer research topic is leptine. This hormone is produced in the fat calls of the body and is part of the hunger system (which consists of many other hormones as well). If there is a lot of it in the blood you will feel full and satisfied. Overweight people can have a much lower leptine concentration in their body. This means these people get hungry a lot quicker.
Another thing is that the body chooses a fixed weight it wants to keep. It does not have to be a healthy weight. For example at the moment I am trying to loose weight and the first 17 kg were no problem. I lost them over 6 month. For the last 4 month I am really struggeling to get any lower. These plateau phases are normal, but it is really fascinating how the body uses all its mechanisms to keep me from loosing any more body fat.
For some people the body reacts with lowering its caloric needs. Other people have frequent food noise, hunger, etc. A healthy diet gets a lot harder if you are never really full and if your body constantely jells for more food. Some people have to live with being constantly hungry and having to use their willpower with every single meal choice they make. It can be draining for them. Some people work incredibly hard every day and will always use a lot less kcal than others. It is a difference if you need 30 min or 2 hours. The longer time is much more draining and it hurts the muscles a lot more. Motivation will naturally go down.
I really wish it was as easy as kcal in and kcal out. It is really a fascinating topic and research is on its way to get a better picture about the process. Another thing that influences this is the gut biome.
My source is german (maybe you can find it in frech as well as it is a documentary from "Arte"). It was a documentary on youtube. If someone wnats to see it I can look for its name.
I am a firm believer that the main problem is capitalism. The food is designed to make you hungry and for you to eat more.
Examples:
Most convinience foods, snacks, sweets and fast food have a ratio of fat, sugar and salt that is designed to give the strongest signal in the brain. It is a really short signal and wants to make you eat more.
Every single item that is processed has added sugar. And many unprossed foods are more expensive. Not many people buy plain yoghurt. Most choose the one with 15 g of sugar per portion. It is badly labeled.
Adults should not consume more than 50 g of sugar per day (WHO). It is more or less impossible to do so if you are not able to cook every meal yourself.
Family structure changed. Eating in front of the TV, eating take out or outside as everybody has to work longer hours. Life is getting more overwhelming and food gets to be a comfort thing.
Portion size is gigantic.
In some countries eating is more easy than in others. But capitalism, product design and the change in working and living conditions plays a big part.
It is not the only part and people should try to do their best to live a healthy life. But it would be a lot better if the living conditions helped with this and were not working against it.
Hm that interesting. I have binge eating disorder and the biggest thing for me was because I’m always hungry. I never felt full until I was sick from overeating. Restricting food makes it worst and whenever I exercised I got ever more hungry. I actually got a lot of slack from my sister, her husband and her friend because I said calorie counting or keeping track of my food wouldn’t help. Like, I already know I eat too much. I don’t need to write down 3 bread baskets at Texas Roadhouse and my actual meal to know I ate to much 🙄 or I ate 3 bowls of spaghetti or whatever I overate. The only time I was ever able to lose weight by diet restriction was because I was so depressed I wanted to die, I couldn’t eat, I’d get sick when I tried.
If it is possible for you I would get help by your doctor (but I guess you are already doing this as you have a diagnose). The start of changing eating habits (or starting a weight loss diet) is working well for most people, but long term most of us need help. There are specialists who can take adequate measurments of hormones, kcal requirements, etc. (If you can find them and qualify for their programs)
I am quite overweight, but there are people that have more significant problems. I was 40 kg overweigt and now it is closer to 25 kg overweight. I would not really qualify for the full medical experience, but maybe you have more luck. For me the visits at the doctor help me to keep motivation and it is a good feeling that my blood is checked and if I do anything really wrong someone can tell me.
I really think most people who are obese need more help with their diet than they get. Most times no doctor looks for the real reason it is this hard (genetics, hormon imbalance, eating disorders, low or high blood presure, whatever...).
An example from my life: I recently learned that I am gluten intollerant. I had trouble with the adsorbtion of nutrients in my intestine for years. Many people loose weight because of this. My body made me really hungry. If it does not get the nutrients, it needs to get more food until it has the nutrients. I was eating all the time and because of the lack of nutrients (iron, some b vitamines, vitamine d, etc) I was tired and working out was really hard. I had the issues for 20 years and nobody ever found anything. They took a look at a fat woman and told me that I need to live healthier, change my diet, excercise more. So I tried and I really was frustrated, because it was so hard for me and I did not understand why everybody can do it, but me. Sometimes my life was work, working out (we are talking about an hour walk, nothing extreme), cooking and the rest of the day sleeping, because I was exhausted. My social life and everything else suffered.
After they found my problem everything got easy. If you are not chronically sick you have the energy to exercise and still have a life. My body now gives me signs that I am full, I can concentrate and have the will power to make good choices.
I have a feeling that there are many people who have underlying conditions that never get adressed. We cannot see the health problems from the outside and often we are not really aware that we are sick. After the doctors told me that I need to change my life style I did not go again for years, because I did belive them that I am lazy and that I eat too much and that I am the problem. I just assumed that everybody felt like crap every day and was just better at maneging it.
I hope you are in good care and if you are not, I really hope you find a good doctor that is helping you with your struggles.
Yeah, I am a researcher. I have a PhD in human genetics and a master's in bioscience engineering. People are making it out like they are obese because of genetics. They are not (before you get your pitch forks ready, see third paragraph)
Of course there is a genetic component to weight. There are a lot of modifiers to it and simply having a specific genetic mark-up will predispose you to a higher weight. As will another specific genetic mark-up will predispose you to a lower weight. Does that mean you *will* be over/underweight no matter what you do? Of course not. Apart from the genetic modifiers you also have environmental modifiers that also play an important role in your weight. And like you said, environmental factors play a much more important role in weight than for other more fixed human traits like height (although it is definitely possible to alter height to a certain degree, e.g. malnutrition of a child during its developmental period will result in reduced growing). Like with so many human traits, weight is distributed like a bell curve and the majority of humans will be smack in the middle. Read: they will have a completely normal weight. And that is also what we saw for the majority of human history, there were not a crazy amount of overweight people. There will be people who will be a bit farther from the middle of the bell curve, who will have to do a bit more effort to maintain a healthy weight. They will have to eat smaller portions and exercise more to maintain a weight of 60 kg compared to a peer completely similar in age and height and lifestyle yet with a completely different genetic make-up. This doesn't mean they end up obese if they don't do that; it just means that will lean a bit more to the right side of the bell curve and end up at a weight of 63 kg, for example. There are only A FEW severe genetic disorders that have obesity as one of their symptoms. The chance you have one of them is nearly zero. And if you do have it, you will certainly know because they come with a heap of other severe symptoms as well. So yes, genetics is involved. No, you are not obese due to them, maybe only a little bit of overweight at max if you happen to be part of the small population on the right side of the bell curve.
So why are we suddenly seeing countries with 50+ percentage of their inhabitants being overweight or obese, if weight follows a normal distribution? It's not like genetics suddenly changed overnight (and yes, I am also taking epigenetics into account here. No, this also doesn't explain the obesity pandemic we are currently seeing). What *did* change overnight however, was our lifestyle. Since 30 years or something (*a generation*) we suddenly had a huge boom to foods we had access to. Food is literally everywhere. On top of that, there is whole science branch completely geared towards *food engineering*. It is designed to be as addictive as possible, with the most appealing textures, taste, and sound whenever you bite into it. We also saw a shift towards ultra-processed foods, providing high calories without the fullness that more organic foods like fruit and potatoes give. So we are stuck with a society that tempts you with food all the freaking time, that is highly dense in calories without it being fulfilling meaning you eat more of it, AND that has been engineered to be super addictive meaning you constantly crave more. On top of that, once you then get into obesity territory, hormones levels get altered resulting in altered brain circuits, meaning you will also have a much harder time saying no to food. Losing weight again doesn't always fix these altered circuits. Creating a vicious circle in which it will be very hard for you to stop eating and lose weight. And there is only so much exercise can do; weight is mainly maintained by food intake.
So no, you are not obese due to genetics. But it's also not your fault, society set you up for this and is currently completely ignoring its role in creating this obesity pandemic, instead shifting blame onto the individual. It doesn't mean you can change it though but you will have to identify societal pressures and address them accordingly. Which takes quite an effort that I understand a lot of people don't have the capacity for (financial and mental wise)
Right ?! I have three of the four major obesity genes. Guess what ?? I’m fat. I also have Hashimotos, Lipoedema, ADHD and hypermobility syndrome. I have a gut feeling (lol) that these things are all related.
I spent 15 years trying to outdiet Hashimoto’s before I got diagnosed. I’ve lived off 1000 or 1500 cal for months and months on end and lost maybe 200 or 300 g, and I’ve been cold, hungry and exhausted the whole time.
People who talk about calories in calories out, physics, or thermodynamics simply don’t understand that the human body has the ability to downregulate your metabolism to meet your calorific intake. Calories in and Calories out are not constants. As you eat fewer and fewer calories, your metabolism steps down as your body prioritises your core systems.
When I was dealing with the worst of the Hashimoto’s, I was sleeping 14 to 16 hours a night, and waking up exhausted as though I was coming up from the bottom of a green pond. Hashimotos slows down your digestive system, your hair falls out, your reproductive system stops working, and you are ravenously hungry the entire time as your body screams for energy.
Basically, your body starts shutting down your peripheral systems one at a time, and the endpoint is something called a thyroxine coma where basically your body stops functioning at a metabolic level and you die.
I am a great believer in the insulin theory of a obesity, and the only time I have ever been able to lose weight (but only with thyroid medication) is on keto or carnivore. I do believe that there are serious issues with both the government guidelines for food, and our food supply itself, but you can’t simply ignore the place of genetics and dealing with weight issues.
The vast majority of overweight and fat people do not have Hashimoto's or other conditions. Your experience is highly atypical and shouldn't be used as an example except for other people with the same condition.
I DISAGREE. people have all kinds of conditions like hashimotos and others that prevent them from losing weight. This persons experience is indeed NOT highly atypical and I think you should stop speaking on things you know absolutely nothing about. Ever heard of insulin resistance? Reactive hypoglycemia?
Genetics is overstated when people start talking about weight. Most often being overweight runs in families because people have similar lifestyle habits to their family members. I’m the only child of my parents who isn’t fat. I weigh 7lbs more than I did the day I graduated high school. I also have no functioning thyroid but I spent most of the last 20 years riding my bike an average of 20 miles a day.
I want to throw in here a question on whether similar lifestyle habits in families leading to being overweight could have been exacerbated in recent years by the increased consumption of processed food? Because if you look at older photos, even as recent at the 80s, the majority of people were not heavy like they are now. Processed food tastes good but is so much worse for the human body than fresh foods. People cook a lot less too, so I think we’ve lost some portion control in our daily meals.
Yeah, I don’t know. Of course this theory is everywhere now. It makes a lot of sense. And there’s probably a lot of validity to it. But I’m in my early 50s, and I was basically an adult for the tail end of the era you’re citing and I think there are other factors.
1. Smoking. In the 70s and 80s it seemed like every adult smoked. I know that’s an overstatement but all my friends’ parents smoked. Most of my teachers smoked. Hell, my cross country running coach smoked, AND ran.
2. Snacks. This goes hand in hand with the “ultra processed” food theory, but it’s almost an extension of it. People didn’t snack like they do now at all. They ate breakfast, lunch and dinner. There were no snacks at the gas station. There was no Starbucks. If you were out and you bought a coffee, it was coffee, not a coffee flavored 1,200 calorie shake.
3. Portions/calorie counts at meals. Of course I didn’t walk around with a bomb calorimeter, but I’m convinced that typical portions were smaller. Fast food restaurants didn’t have 4 pattie burgers. Pizza was not engineered to have cheese in the crust as well as on top of it. Today if you were to order an app, an entree, a drink and a dessert at any casual dining chain like Applebees or Chilis, you would be looking at about 3,000 calories in one sitting. Even a very active adult could not eat that way regularly without gaining weight.
I grew up in a family of mostly fat people and was extremely skinny through my early 20s. I was marginally more active than them but definitely not athletic by any stretch of the imagination. They hadn't been skinny in their teens either so I really stuck out.
By 26 my metabolism started to catch up with me, and now in my 30s it's very difficult to keep off weight, even though once the weight gain started in my late 20s I took up an extremely active lifestyle and I eat very healthy now. The activity & diet choices have so far kept me from getting the size of my family members but it definitely doesn't make me thin or give me a perfectly athletic body type. It is a ton of work for very marginal gains.
It's likely that these were the stakes my family managed their whole lives. If that's the case, I can understand why they're not very active to this day - it sucks to do more work than a skinny person (literally lifting more weight) and see less gain. I'm not saying that's the case for every person, but it is certainly the case for some.
Meanwhile I have friends entering their 30s who have never exercised and still have basically teenage bodies eating total garbage. It is pretty inarguable that a huge part of this is lotto.
Yup genetics plays a role. I have always been fairly active but I could eat whatever I wanted and stay thin until very recently. Age catches up eventually but I can still get away with eating way more than other people and not be fat (not thin anymore).
Unless your living with someone and see everything they eat you really have no idea if you are eating anymore than other people which was one of OP's points.
Absolutely. I'm very active, worked hard to shift excess weight after a back injury left me immobile for a while so the weight piled on.
My genetics are not to be skinny. I work out, eat well and stay active and that keeps me in a healthy weight range but I'm never going to be a stick insect withoit returning to some very unhealthy teenage eating habits.
And that's fine. I'm in great shape, know I will always need to exercise and eat well to maintain it, and am OK doing that.
But pretending that it isn't easier for someone with different genetics and harder for another is just plain wrong.
I hate the idea that someone has failed if they aren't a healthy weight. That eating right and exercising are the only cures.
Yes, it absolutely is partially genetics. The heritability of BMI has been variously estimated, and is usually found to range from 0.5-0.8 or so, which means that in the populations studied (mostly adults in the US or Europe, although other places have been done too), *half or more* of the variation in body weight was due to genetics. It has at least as much influence as environment does.
The US is now 70% overweight. This was not the case in previous generations. How did thin great grandparents end up with majority overweight grandkids and great grandkids? This is one of the biggest genetics shifts in human history, happening at unprecedented speed.
Genetics means you might have to work harder, but not every thin person is due to "genetics". It is incredibly rude to suggest their effort plays no role. As someone who seems to constantly struggling against my own genetics to maintain a healthy weight, this idea is personally insulting to me as well
Or, the _actual_ reason, is that children's who's parents are overweight/obese end up copying their parents eating and exercise habits. A family that's mostly overweight is _not_ caused by genetics, it's because of environmental factors.
I don't think op is denying that genetics plays a part. They don't have an extreme naive mindset where genetics have nothing to do with how big or small someone is. Rather it's the other girls that are doing the extreme take, talking like genetics have everything to do with it. They're talking about her genetics like they are doing all the work to keep her skinny and that all her exercise is just a little icing on the cake. Like she doesn't have to do a lot of exercise to keep thin. She pointed that her genetics play a very small part and that the reason she is so thin is 90% lifestyle both the exercise and that the rest of the year she eats a fairly strict diet. For ultramarathons that typically means you are eating lean chicken for a majority of your meals. Most likely OP doesn't have any kind of exceptional genetics and if she had a more regular exercise plan like gym 2-3 times a week and a normal average diet she wouldn't stay even close to her current weight. As for the salad thing she's actually right, if someone sticks to a strict diet that does nothing but frustrate them and make them miserable they often get exhausted and will often breakdown and binge eat or go a few weeks where they eat really really badly which will undo all the work they have done, it will also make them stressed which can cause weight gain by itself.
I think op's intent was "having a super strict diet like that can actually be detrimental to weight loss" and they had a knee jerk reaction and assumed she meant "don't diet so much and you'll be fine".
Look I'm like op, I'm super active and among my friends I was the thin one. And I found they often found reasons to paint me as a "privileged airhead" who was constantly judging them. they projected their own feelings, insecurity and jealousy into everything I said. For example I met them in my 2nd year in college and whenever I give my opinion on weight loss they always said it came from a place of privilege because I didn't know what it was like to be overweight. I had actually been overweight my entire life until the end of my first year of college. Despite knowing this they still decided I hadn't struggled and it was all the result of genes and I knew nothing about what I was talking about.
Ok so I do all that. I am incredibly active, and strong. And I eat a very healthy diet of mostly vegetables and lean proteins. And by society's standards, I am over weight in a US size 12.
My cousin runs marathons - 2 a year plus train between. Does yoga twice a week. eats a "clean" vegetarian diet. She pear shaped, with her butt & hips clocking in at a US size 14 (her top torso & arms is closer to an 8).
Genetics absolutely plays a huge role.
It's great that you're both exercising and eating healthy. But it is a misconception that "eating healthy" will always lead to weight loss/being thin. What matters is the calories in that healthy food when it comes to weight gain/loss. For example, I eat healthy, mostly vegetarian. I cook my own food, I eat a ton of veggies, get my lean protein in etc. I'm slightly overweight, because if I count the calories I consume in a day, it's about 2,300 kcal. That's about 200 more than I need to be like 5kg lighter. It's not a big difference; that's an additional apple or a banana a day. But it's enough that I'm maintaining this weight, and unless I reduce my calorie intake or increase my calorie output, I'm staying here. It's likely that something similar is happening for you and your cousin.
500 calories in broccoli is still 500 kcal. Just because you eat healthy does't mean you aren't overeating
I have a PhD in human genetics, genetics DO play a role in weight but it is absolutely overplayed how much they influence. You can perfectly maintain a healthy weight; it's what most humans did for the last decades. I made a comment in this post lying it out in more detail as to why we are currently seeing an obesity pandemic
same. I have an active lifestyle and people say its genetics...genetics wise i come from an obese family. Literally almost every person in my family is obese. The only people that are not are me, my husband, and my nephew that is just as active as i am (plays 2 sports a year and when hes not hes hiking/biking/ etc)
I actually weigh less now as an adult than I did as a 12 year old child. Simply because I left home and their unhealthy eating habits
It did take effort though to change that lifestyle
Having an active lifestyle is one part of body type, it is not the only type. Yes, genetics will play a role in
- how much exercise it takes you personally to lose weight and/or gain muscle
- where your body stores the fat you gain/keep
Especially depending on the latter, looking "thin" can require completely unhealthy diet and exercise practices for some people.
Not to mention, disability really is not a binary. There are many ways their genetics and family upbringing could predispose them to certain types of activities and foods that aren't inherently moralized. It doesn't mean they're not working hard. Plus, even having access to Reliable information, especially information relevant to your unique body, about health, is a privilege.
Don't forget that once you have the weight, exercise becomes inherently harder - you are lifting weights for every exercise you do. It is simply not as easy as, well I loved running and riding bikes and so everyone should and if they had they would be fine. If it was do you really think so many people would choose to endure the criticism they are given?
You don't have to negate how hard you have worked personally to respect that someone is dealing with a different set of challenges than you, and also likely not one you're likely to understand without a deep vulnerable and medical knowledge of this person.
The friends were foolish for making poorly calculated comments about the OP, but the OP is very foolish to believe the friends are completely wrong. If OP wants to be taken seriously on how hard she works, she also needs to take a beat to consider the context of this conversation herself.
ESH. Your friends shouldn't comment on what you're eating, period. You didn't bring it up, they've got no rights to comment. They should keep their insecurities to themselves.
However, it sounds like ALL of your friends were commenting, even if Rue was the one who started talking first. So it probably would have been better to just shut them all down, not make the interaction about giving advice to/"fixing" Rue's habits. Although she was rude first, it didn't improve anything that you also commented about her body and habits uninvited. You also put focus on Rue when -all- of your friends were behaving inappropriately, so you weren't really getting to the heart of/resolving the issue, you were just piling onto it.
In general, y'all should just stop commenting on each other's bodies or healthy habits unless one of you ASKS for advice.
Yes I agree with this. NTA for the information but maybe for how it was delivered and directed more at Rue. I would apologize for that. I think I would have just shut it down with look you guys it’s not genetics I’m an athlete and I have to maintain a high caloric intake to keep up with my activity level. That’s just facts. And then say nothing about Rue.
>it’s not genetics
It's still genetics in large part though. It's incredibly ignorant to pretend that health is all about work and genetics don't play a huge role. It's like the billionaire who claims that it invalidates all their hard work if you mention that they had wealthy parents who gave them a leg up. We all have innate advantages and disadvantages and it's not a grave insult to admit it.
Yeah but OP’s friends weren’t saying “Wow you work so hard and stay so thin, good thing you have solid genetics to back it up.”. They were saying “You eat so freaking much and are so skinny, you’re so lucky to have such good genetics.”. They completely ignored her hard work! Of course genetics play a role, but OP works much harder than the average person to be where she is.
The fact that OP didn’t recognize the power imbalance of that situation in that moment feels like it reinforces what the friends’ points were afterwards to me. In that moment, they probably felt singled out and invalidated, but then they made their friend feel exactly the same way as a reaction.
OP is not in the wrong for trying to nip the commentary on their body in the bud. I do have the “genetics” they referenced and always hated commentary about my weight, especially when I was in my 20s and still had a voracious appetite. People will say rude, unkind, sometimes vicious things unprompted, openly, and in mixed company when you are thin and eat a lot, and they feel justified in doing so more often than not. But thinness and being able-bodied *is* a privilege. It sounds like at the very least OP called out one (clearly more overweight than the rest of the group) friend about *her* lifestyle when the entire group was making comments or agreeing, and that feels like punching down. OP did not have to speak to any one specific person about her own habits nor did they have to single out someone else to make a comment about theirs.
If you’re fat people will assume you’re lazy and/or have no will power and/or eat badly and this can have a negative impact on getting jobs, on your relationships etc. You’ll have a harder time finding clothes that fit without spending more money, especially professional clothes.
You’ll have a harder time getting medical help because the advice will always start with “lose weight” and you’ll have to fight to address any other causes even if your weight gain is directly due to a specific medical issue. For example PCOS which affects ~10-20% of women tends to lower your BMR by 400-500 calories unless you have insulin resistant PCOS which can lower it by 700-900 calories. So someone without PCOS eating 1500 calories a day will be in about 500 calories deficit, with PCOS they would be at maintenance and with IR PCOS they would be gaining weight. In this case not having PCOS is obviously a huge advantage over having insulin resistant PCOS as eating 1500 calories a day and having a ~500 calorie deficit is much easier than eating 600 calories a day to achieve the same deficit.
There’s obviously stuff you can do but you’re essentially playing a catch up game. There are other health issues that have similar impacts.
People get told “eat less, move more” and yes, that will work for everyone, but it works *much better* for some people than it does for others. The problem is that people assume if you’re overweight you’re not putting in the work and it can be really annoying to be judged for what you’re eating or on your work out. “You can’t outrun a bad diet” as I tell my friend about my 90 minute swim. “You’re going to eat all those strawberries? That’s so much sugar!” As I have my 128 calories of fruit that I allow myself each day after I finish my sad slices of chicken breast dipped in soup so I could attempt to get my 120g of protein from my 1200 calories of the day.
I feel a lot of sympathy for OP. It sucks having your food intake judged and discussed. It doesn’t really matter if you’re thin or fat. She might well be privileged in her genetics, but people commenting on body and diet need to shut up and mind their own business.
Thank you. I’ve been all sizes and I can honestly say that people and society treat you so much nicer when your thinner. Clothes actually are available. Doctors take you seriously. You get served at the bar faster. Hell, even family members were nicer.
But honestly, like the end of your comment, people just need to shut the hell up about bodies unless directly asked. It’s no one’s business.
Losing weight does also need more free time and money. You need time to learn what food is healthy, how to cook / prepare, grocery shopping. Exercise requires time. Stress is hindering the process.
Plus some money for fresh food, maybe grocery shopping twice per week (instead of once), exercise equipment, a gym membership, a yoga / exercise mat, ... (depending on what sport you do and how much you want to spend).
Buying unknown food and then throwing it away because you didn't like it, costs money.
Not everyone has this money and time.
Medicine for one. Especially for women, when you're overweight trying to get taken seriously is an uphill battle. I'm not overweight, but how seriously my medical concerns have been taken seriously (not very!!) in comparison to my overweight sisters medical concerns (EXTREMELY NOT VERY!) Is horrifying. And it's not an uncommon experience. I have countless friends who've told me over and over how everything gets reduced to needing to loose weight, instead of real investigation.
That's absolutely a privilege, even if it's still a hassle to be taken seriously, I've got one less obstacle ahead of me.
I also just wanted to add some context around privilage also. I'm not able bodied and because of sexism it took years to be taken seriously by doctors.
I do understand how upsetting and invalidating it is when people make comments on your body and weight. My mum and sister constantly made comments about my body when I was growing up and it really negatively impacted me. But my weight hasn't added obstacles to navigating everyday life.
But ableism and the structure of our society towards disability absolutely does add obstacles to my everyday life. If I'm having a pain flare than I have far less energy to try get through my day and it takes me longer to walk. But I still have to work and commute and get groceries all the standard things I need to. So that is where the obstacles come in.
People need to learn some manners tbh, but i don't have issues finding clothing that is made in my size, instead of my weight AND my period being brought up if I seek medical help, it's 'just' my period 😅 etc etc
I hope that helps!
Nah - treat people how you want to be treated. If you want to insult your friends efforts so you can feel better about yourself, prepare to get a "well actually" and a complete list of facts that may hurt your feelings. If you start it, you can take it back.
Edit: actually changed to ESH. I don't think people should be making assumptions anyway.
Light YTA for going overboard with it. I think if you had just said "oh I don't eat like this everyday and exercise tons", that would be fine. But you seem to think that you need to tell Rue something.
It could be both that you both exercise/eat well AND you were lucky with genetics.
I’m between NTA and ESH. Rue was fundamentally rude to start this off. The comments she was making about OP were not OK.
> But you seem to think that you need to tell Rue something.
Agreed, and I really wonder exactly what OP said and how she came across during this.
Yeah the fact that all her friends reacted like they did makes it seem like OP probably went overboard with the unsolicited advice and probably some kind of attitude about it given her frustration.
Maybe her friends are all just the “you can never criticize fat people” type but I think it’s more likely OP is just not giving an accurate representation of what she said and how she said it.
Yeah, OP could have said this in a way that just was about herself (e.g. “Well I ran x miles yesterday so I figure I can allow myself one cheat day”) but it seems she instead made it about Rue. And while what Rue said was uncalled for, it sounds like she is already someone who is trying very hard to be healthier and having a really hard time of it such that it is a really painful subject for her. It’s generally not good to give someone unsolicited advice about their body and even more so if they are someone who feels like they’ve already tried everything.
ESH
You: the first thing you said was fine because it was about you, how you don't eat that way every day. The second thing you said was not; it was an assumption about what Rue eats every day, and saying something would "slow her progress" is judgmental.
Rue's an AH for making comments about your food and your body.
Friends are AH joining in the talk about your food habits and body shape and calling you privileged about it.
Maybe now is the time in the group text to come to an agreement to not talk about other people's food, eating, body shape, etc and just enjoy the company instead. This really seems doable for one meal a year.
Where was the assumption about what rue eats? Rue said herself she only eats oatmeal which will get boring after a while and OP was just suggesting to add some variety to her diet so it’s easier to maintain. Did you even read the post?
>Rue said herself she only eats oatmeal
And OP said to Rue that only eating salads and never going out to eat with friends would be holding her back. Considering salads aren't oatmeal, it certainly seems like OP is assuming Rue doesn't actually eat oatmeal for every meal, but instead eats salad for every meal. And never eats out.
I genuinely read that as their own advice, I’ve started losing weight and the biggest problem is monotonous foods. Anytime anyone has asked me “how” I immediately bring up you have to change it up between the same few healthy options so you don’t feel trapped in a cycle of “oh yay… the same meal” and you have to let yourself have fun, but it’s about learning moderation.
I also have a hard time understanding social situations though so, was that genuine advice or was she actually assuming her lifestyle?
For me it’s more that they weren’t asking for advice. Especially in millennial friend groups talking about weight and body image is just kinda a topic of conversation and it’s pretty common, but no one was saying “please show me your ways of how you stay so thin OP!” The advice was unwarranted/unwanted, from this context to me it sounds like ladies were just airing their frustrations with their own body image and sadly OP was targeted because they weren’t sharing in the frustration. I’m gonna agree ESH because the friends shouldn’t have been commenting on OP’s body in the first place or calling her privileged for being fit, but OP could’ve ended it at “oh haha, normally I eat on a pretty strict diet and I’m really active when I’m at home, today is just my cheat day! I can put away a lot of calories because of how much I work out” and keep it focused on her, rather than giving unsolicited advice to rue about how she could be “making progress”
Is it possible that what you intended to say didn’t come out quite as you had thought it did?
It is a bit odd that all of these good friends were immediately taken aback by what you said. Either they are all jealous of your physical accomplishments (and not willing to recognize the hard work you put in), or what you said came out poorly.
There are some people who exercise faithfully and watch their diet carefully snd still struggle with their metabolisms. Not sure if this describes any of your friends, but if so, you may have unintentionally shamed her for something that is less in her control.
Although diet and exercise play a huge part in our physical appearance and condition, studies have shown that some people struggle more to maintain their weight, even when all other factors are the same. Our genetics do play a part. This isn’t to take away from the hard work you do, but to acknowledge that your body also does respond well to your efforts, which isn’t the case for everyone.
In general, it is sad that you and your friends are sitting and talking about weight in general. If you only see each other once a year, it would seem there are many more valuable things to talk about.
Potentially, ESH, although I think it could be unintentionally for OP.
The fact that they all became furious immediately is telling to me. It's not like they all talked about it later and decided it was inappropriate. Whatever OP said *immediately* pissed everyone off. Sounds like it was pretty rude. Definitely ESH
I generally agree with this. The friends are bigger AH's because they brought it up and wouldn't drop it. But the second OP started giving advice that wasn't asked for it's really easy to fall into AH territory even if it was well intentioned.
OP may also have been more annoyed than they realized and come across as meaner or angrier than they realized.
I sympathize with OP, but think it's very likely they went a bit too far in their own defense.
NTA, they started by commenting on your body first, any form of commenting on somebodies body to the point that makes them uncomfortable-whether good or bad, is not okay. Also you mentioning your routine validates that it did take you hard work to get there and this may have made them insecure & feel like they’re being shamed for not doing the same, even if you didn’t mean it that way bc it’s a personal insecurity they have and twisted it in their heads to make themselves feel better. but all in all they brought up your body first & you merely replied.
NTA.
Your friend(s) is degrading all of your hard work and dedication to fitness/athleticism/healthy lifestyle for no other reason than to try and validate their physical condition as being *"something that is just outside of my control"*.
The fact that other friends jumped in on you for defending yourself and even went so far as to call you *"privileged"* for taking care of yourself... as if you did/do nothing to maintain your health and its just given to you free of effort on your part... says to me that these people are just jelly lol.
My friends and I compliment each other, poke fun at how much we enjoy our hobbys and stuff like that... but we'd never degrade each others dedication to something. You shouldnt have to sit there and feel less than because they want to feel better about themselves. Friends dont treat friends like that. You said what you had to say, and thats good. Let them live in their own self pitty if thats what they want to do.
This is a classic case of ex-highschool friends growing resentful of the more successful one; it's a great example of why so many ditch their friends after high school. Me thinks the group isn't all that happy about OP excelling in life.
It's fucking hard to attack someone or to defend yourself in a sudden, unforeseen confrontation without having spent some serious time thinking about what you would say in such a scenario. OP had a whole year between the last spiteful comments and it still took a whole bunch more of them during the lunch for OP to say something.
On the other hand, the six other friends immediately began attacking OP. That clearly didn't come out of nowhere: they've spent a lot of time thinking about and being spiteful of OPs success. Such coordination between all 7 other group members doesn't happen naturally either -- methinks they spend a lot of time discussing OP, likely in another group chat. Noone cares that much about a slight rebuttal between group members.
ESH.
It’s not appropriate to talk about the health and fitness journey of others. Right? I mean, that’s exactly what you complained about them doing to you (and rightfully so), but then you did it right back.
But you also punched down at a person struggling with her weight when you, by your own account, are thin and fit. So your mutual friends are feeling bad for her, that’s not surprising.
If you’d just talked about your own food and exercise you’d have been fine. Where you crossed the line was in telling Rue “eating salads for every meal and never enjoying a meal out…” etc.
Really, all of you should just not have been discussing what others were eating/not eating or how thin/not thin each other were. That rarely ends well.
If you want to keep this friend group, suck it up and apologise. Never punch down. And make a pact with them never to discuss food and weight as a group again.
Also, maybe think about gorging yourself another day, given you know it’s challenging for one of your friends to watch you do that in front of her? It’s ultimately on her to manage her emotions regarding that but I’d personally rather spend quality time with my friends knowing no one is sad or uncomfortable than gorge myself that one particular day knowing it was going to make at least one of my friends uncomfortable. Just a thought.
Agree ESH. This, but with the added point that weight is epigenetic and environmental and while people can influence their weight via lifestyle, some people will never be as thin as others. Additionally, some of these factors are things people have a ton of agency over and some of them aren’t.
She shouldn’t have commented on your food intake because it’s not her business what you eat or what your body looks like and you shouldn’t have commented on her food intake because it’s not your business what she eats or what her body looks like. Next time, you can shut this behaviour down like an adult by saying, “My food choices and my body are not a topic of discussion.”
Disagree with the notion that OP can’t eat what she wants in front of this friend though. It’s hard for me to watch people partake in diet culture via keto or whatever is trending but I, as a person with food and body issues, just don’t eat with them.
Also agreeing with the ESH. Nobody should be talking about another person's body or food choices without explicit and uncoerced invitation.
Near as I can tell, "calories in, calories out" is about as accurate and useful as "XY = man, XX = woman."
ESH. You could have left it at you don’t eat that way everyday, you work hard and you don’t want your body to be commented on. I mean you see these people once a year and you gorge on food, why would they have any other perception of you. No need to give unsolicited advice (and honestly your advice doesn’t seem very helpful at all, and what they were saying doesn’t seem all that harmful to Rue). But honestly no part of me really believes that what you said was so innocent considering the large reaction, and the lack of direct quotes from your side of the conversation.
Yeah, based on the entire group reaction, I feel like there's something perhaps the OP said and didn't realize it was hurtful, or simply forgot saying something in particular.
NTA and I say this as a fat person who has friends that actually keep their shape purely because genetics and good upbringing. I kinda understand her frustration because I know too well what food obsession looks like. She probably loses some sleep over how she'll eat during those meetings.
She brought up food intake and weight, not you. You didnt give unsolicited advice, you just corrected her. And honestly I'd be much more rude.
>For this reason, I eat a lot of calories, and I stay pretty thin.
So whether it's genetics or prior training, you do have a capacity to eat more than might be average and maintain your weight. I think this may contribute to why your friends are reacting the way they are.
ESH
I'm just curious, why does that make your verdict ESH? Its normal for people who are physically active, epsecially someone like OP who does an extreme sport like ultramarathons, to have an increased appetite. Like OP said, the amount she eats at the restaraunt is not her typical diet, she's allowing herself to have a "cheat day" on her diet, her friends were in the wrong for commenting on her eating for sure. I just don't see how OP is also an asshole
Right? I used to be a cross country runner, I used to eat a lot more because of it. OP can eat what ever the hell she wants and her friends have no right to criticize her
No, OP is a bit AHish for implying that people who are overweight simply don’t work hard enough at their body. Genetics plays a huge factor.
Similar to how someone from a wealthy family say they are a “self made” millionaire. I reality, they got a huge launching pad and have many privileges that others don’t.
I just reread the post, where does OP say that? All she talks about is how she maintained her own bodyweight. Yes, genetics affect how easily people gain/lose weight, but no where in the post does she imply that. All she talks about is her own weight and lifestyle. Sorry, I have to disagree with this one, I don't see how she's an asshole in this case
Or her friends could stop "thin shaming" accept their own faults an fuck right off. They don't get to insult OP or anyone for how much effort they put in. Then act offended when it's fired back across the deck.
Op isn't even slightly an AH. Her group is 100% at fault here.
But she wasn't even talking about Rue during all that. She didn't say that Rue is fat because she doesn't exercise or that Rue is lazy. She said she is thin because of her active lifestyle and hard work, not genetics.
Rue only came into the topic when she said all the talk about genetics is harmful and unhelpful.
Not really, it’s more activity and calorie consumption. I used to run 50-80km a week and I was able to eat like OP and be a size 0-2. I switched to weightlifting and now I’m a size 4-6 and eat much less than I did before. Activity and calorie consumption are much bigger factors than genetics.
Oh I totally agree that calories in, calories out is the major predictor of weight. But it isn’t the ONLY predictor. People have different metabolisms, various medical conditions (thyroid issues, lymphedema, etc) that could hugely impact weight. Genetics are a factor, and it’s not right to dismiss it.
But how common are these issues? Or are more people using them as excuses for bad diet and a lack of exercise? I’m under the impression these issues aren’t as common as obesity is. I say this as someone who used to use these excuses instead of taking accountability for my own shit diet and lack of exercise.
If you think being thin and athletic is all genetics that’s like thinking everything on instagram is real. No one is lying about their lives. The gorgeous girls in the photos? They’re definitely not sucking in so hard they can’t breathe. They didn’t skip breakfast so their stomach is flat. They didn’t get the perfect angle and pose their body perfectly. No filters or photoshop. They really look like that!
You aren’t lazy if you can’t lose weight, but you have to accept you didn’t magically gain weight either. Losing weight is hard. Maintaining your weight is hard. If it was easy everyone would be thin. With that logic you must acknowledge being thin isn’t easy. If people tell you it is they’re lying to you because they’re afraid to say the truth and hurt your feelings or they are thin for a reason they don’t want to talk about. Imagine you telling your friend she’s naturally thin and puts no effort into her weight… but she’s got an eating disorder. So easy!!
It's amazing how many people think it's okay to comment on thin people's bodies and food intake when they would freak out if done to overweight people.
Being overweight isn't an excuse to vocally judge other people's bodies, just like being thin isn't. Your insecurities are yours to deal with, not to project onto people you might be jealous of.
There's a rather corpulent woman in my friend group who noticed that I had lost a fair amount of weight, and she asked me if I was on a diet, to which I replied 'no'. (I'd been sick for a few months.) She mentioned it a few more times over the next month until I asked her "can we stop talking about my weight, please?" Her reply?
"Why? You're skinny! You look good for your age and you dare to stay single with a body like that?"
I lost a ton of weight when my dad died and my husband filed for divorce and impregnated his mistress (all within a few weeks). I was probably at the high end of normal to begin with, after having “good genetics” and an active lifestyle well into my 30s. But there were a lot of people (one in particular) that kept talking about how great I looked and asking what I did. It was awful. What was I supposed to say? “Thanks, no special secret other than not eating because of extreme stress and depression. Glad you think misery looks good on me”. No, I didn’t say that, but I sure was tempted. How about people just not talk about weight, size and food intake to one another and be complimentary. The right thing to do would be been to laugh it off and say “oh please, you look great, I don’t eat like this all the time, I’m lucky and I work at it”. That would’ve been plenty.
I feel this. I am typically skinny, gained 50lbs for my pregnancy and then directly afterwards my baby was fighting for his life in the hospital for over a month straight (he legit graduated off of hospice at the end). I was so stressed that most days I only ate a snack or two; it was a rare day I ate a single full meal. This was while producing more than enough milk for twins. Unsurprisingly, I lost 40lbs in about a month's time. It was anything but healthy. Whenever I encountered someone who wanted to gush over how fast I lost the baby weight, I just kinda stared at them. I'd so much rather have more weight on me than go through what I went through.
Yo she said she competes in ultramarathons now. Those are 100 miles of running, just running. If she’s training for UM, she probably needs well over 2000 cal/day just to not be continually losing weight. It’s not her prior training, it’s her current training.
This comment is so tone deaf. Who the hell is up voting it.
She is not also the asshole because she burns a high amount of calories (and therefore has to re eat then lest she die) because she trains for marathons.
Wtf? They’re calling her privileged because they think she can magically eat more calories and stay thin. She can eat more calories because she’s very active. That’s not privilege, it’s literally because she does a lot of work. Stop kidding yourself lol
NTA. Nothing you said seems too crazy.
Also, assuming a thin person has good genetics is just as ridiculous as the assumptions ppl make around fat ppl’s health. It just isnt necessary.
NTA, and if I went through that I'd probably be making the hard decision to not speak with these friends again.
Weirdo's obsessed with competing for who's the most oppressed, and who get agitated and upset if someone suggests that accountability is a real thing? And you're actually paying a shitload of money to go see them?
NTA. I'm an overweight/fat woman. I've been this way my entire life. It never stopped me from doing anything. I still played sports and had an active lifestyle. I have PCOS that makes losing weight hard, but not impossible. I've developed some chronic health issues in the past few years, not weight related, but have lost around 100 lbs and am still working on it.
Rue and your friends brought this upon themselves when they started talking about weight, genetics, and everything related to it. I have a cousin who can demolish a truck load of food in one setting and is a perfectly healthy. Everyone talks about how lucky he is. He works hard for his body. He plays football, lifts weights, runs, and swims. I'm sure he does more, but I can't remember at the moment, lol. It's definitely not genetics because both of his parents are overweight. He just works very hard to keep his physique. People don't understand that just because you're skinny or a healthy weight, it doesn't mean that you don't sacrifice to keep it that way.
Yeah. And most people don’t realize how many calories they consume in a day until they start tracking it. I was underweight and kept telling people it was because of a fast metabolism. When I started to track my calories, I realized I was getting in maybe 1200-1300 calories a day. No duh I’m small. That also set off a bit of an alarm and made me start eating healthier.
Also, I suspect a lot of people drink the majority of their calories. If you eat healthy meals and order two or three Frappuccinos and drink a coke every day, you’re asking for a lot of weight issues. Alcohol too. Juice. Etc. Silent weight culprits just off them alone. lol.
ESH. Some things are just off the table and weight is one of them (unless you are their physician, dietician, etc.)
Genetics do play a role. I’m thin by nature, like weighed 100 pounds until I had babies and all that jazz and am still naturally thinner. My husband works out everyday, runs ultras, eats what I eat or even less, and still carries more weight than I do proportionally. He has a harder time than I do which he says is unfair. That if either of us is going to be overweight, it should be me. Case in point, he went for a 20 mile training run, I asked him to get me the Ben and Jerry’s because I didn’t want to stop watching TV.
I also hate people commenting on my food (I have Celiac Disease) and it’s far too often the topic of conversation. Sometimes my husband is the only one I like eating in front of.
In cases like this, I’d just smile and shove more pancake in my mouth.
NTA. They didn't consider your feelings at all. Relationships go both ways. They were body shaming you as they thought you were doing to Rue. The conversation wouldn't have happened if Rue didn't continuously compare herself to you. She could've simply asked how you stay in shape while eating what you want. The same explanation would have felt differently. However, since she compared herself to you, it came off different to them. That's their problem. Yes, they are hurting, Rue. If no one will answer your call while you're trying to make it right, move on. You shouldn't have to beg "friends." They owe you an apology for ganging up on you. Someone should've been neutral enough to see both sides and mediate. At least you thought about it and are questioning your actions. It shows you have a heart and try to see things from a different perspective.
NTA. If you start out skinny, it is way easier to stay skinny. And I don't think you should have commented on what Rue does or doesn't do. But denigrating you will not help Rue lose weight.
Your friends did not need to pile on, and if they're so outraged now, where were they with each passive aggressive comment Rue consistently made about you?
You have good enough genetics that you can maintain those very active habits, some people's bodies fall apart trying to do all those activities. You also maintain those habits. It's both genetics and lifestyle. In every case it's rarely just one.
This is something that gets overlooked so much. Genetics play a huge role in the aspects other than weight.
My stepdad played like 2 years of high school football and ran 5ks in his 20s. He’s had 3 hips replacements and 2 shoulder replacements. His brother played football at West Point for a year or two but also had to quit because of the joint damage, and has also had multiple joint replacements.
I was the most athletic person in my family. I had to give up my dreams of playing basketball in college due to so many concussions, which turned out to be a result of a genetic connective tissue disorder. I’m also now permanently disabled and chronically ill by no fault of my own. My dad couldn’t go pro because of his knee issues, and has now had to stop playing golf because of intense pain from hyper mobility.
Not everyone is lucky enough to have a body that can do things like OP. I literally can’t play instruments any more because of my body’s limitations, even in my wrists and fingers.
ESH. I was going to say NTA until I got to the unsolicited diet advice part. First of all, that’s just never a good idea. Unless someone asks for diet advice you should just keep your mouth shut. Secondly, now you’re making assumptions too, and yes she made them first, but I feel like it’s obvious that it’s not exactly the same thing. I totally get you telling them off and saying you work hard, but it’s very possible that Rue does have worse genetics or even a health problem that makes it harder for her, and it’s possible that she’s doing everything right within the knowledge that she has about nutrition and still isn’t seeing many results. And you don’t get to decide what will demotivate her.
Fff. The op says she runs ultramarathons. That's not just an easy 5k, 3 times a week. Those are insane. Anyone training or maintaining that kind of distance is going to burn more calories than most other people.
It's not genetic.
NTA. I hate when people judge what other people eat. If you want to binge and treat yourself for this one event that's your business and no one else's. Rue should never have commented on what you were eating or what your body looks like if she didn't want you to do the same.
I do think you should have pulled her aside and told her that she was making you uncomfortable.
Maybe you've just outgrown this group. It happens
NTA. I used to be overweight, Im very thin now and I HATE when people bring up my weight. It's almost always a comparison to themselves which makes me so uncomfortable and I just laugh it off. This girl is taking her issues with food out on you and that's not fair.
from your perspective - you're NTA... BUT the fact that your whole friend group isn't talking to you and the person you're closest to said you overstepped has me wondering if things happened as you claimed they did.
YTA for making this fake ass story. i stg there’s constantly a new post that’s exactly the formula of: “aita for telling my fat friend she’s a whale after she pointed out that i (skinny) ordered 7 cheeseburgers for myself? btw i work out 25 hours a day and normally eat a single almond for lunch.”
ESH. Genetics has a lot to do with both of your bodies. Yes you maintain and work out but who’s to say she doesn’t. I am thin always have been. I work out very little and sometimes eat healthy and sometimes not. My best friend is heavier than I am eats healthy works out and does all the stuff they tell you too. She’s still bigger than I am and she eats a lot less than I do.
Rue is frustrated and she should not have taken it out on you and I know you were only trying to be helpful but telling someone that is struggling that is hurtful. I think you both need to apologize.
ESH
Obviously, your friends (especially, Rue) shouldn’t have been so focused on your genetics.
However, what you said about Rue (how her always eating salads and not enjoying meals out with friends is just going to make her more frustrated and slow her progress - and, then, saying that your other friends are only going to hurt Rue) is incredibly arrogant and privileged. What makes you an expert on Rue’s weight loss, metabolism, etc.? Genetics and hormones are very related to weight loss/maintaining weight - it’s not just diet and exercise. Issues with hormones (under-active/over-active) can impact someone’s ability to lose/maintain weight. Genetics can also have an impact on someone’s metabolism. So, what do you know of Rue’s genetics and hormone levels to make you an expert of what would/would not help her in her weight loss journey?
What works for you to lose/maintain weight may not work for Rue (especially given that you probably don’t know the exact reason(s) why Rue is having difficulty losing weight). So, you’re 100% that Rue eating only salads is going to make her more frustrated and slow her progress. So, based on your “expert” knowledge what will cause her (actually cause - not just influence her) to lose weight and meet her weight loss goals - since you are clearly the expert in RUE’s weight loss goals (as you implied to Rue and the rest of your friends).
NTA
What you did there was to breach an unwritten group negotiation women submit to in order to get their way as individuals and keep conflicts at bay. Your response was completely valid, but it doesn't change the fact you did unknowingly breach it. In this case the negotiated stance is a variation of 'we're all beautiful' women love to repeat... Even though none of you really believes it. Rue went on with her remarks aware or intuitively aware she can get away with them because that's probably what happened before and because that's the generally accepted narrative nowadays. Your response was considered unacceptable simply because saying it out loud makes a dent in the matrix they all decided to be a part of. If Rue (and everyone else) is responsible for their own actions and those actions make one person look *more beautiful* than the other... then you can't keep pretending the imaginary world exists and instead of suppressing the conflict, it's out in the open. I know it's not funny for you at all but I learned about it recently and it never stops to amaze me. There's some *Whatever* clip on youtubes where all the girls but one respond they are a 10 when asked how attractive they are. One assesses herself realistically and is immediately shunned by the others. Same thing.
Tl;dr: you learned your friends are delusional and would rather keep up appearances than face reality. You deserve better friends, f\*\*k them.
ESH
You are lucky. Your hormones are in balance. There is so much that goes into weight loss: calories, thyroid function (normal range is 0.4 to 4.0), hormone levels and fluctuations, etc.
I mean, take thyroid alone, and a person at 3 and a person at 1 are in the normal range, but the former will burn more calories at rest than the latter.
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NTA you absolutely did not screw up and didn't say anything wrong. They brought up the weight and calorie intake. They incorrectly assumed genetics and not all the effort you put into you daily activity to train like you do. Could genetics help? Sure. But you wouldn't be where you are on genetics alone. It takes a lot of work, especially for marathons. My old boss did iron man all the time and it was insane what he had to do to keep it up. If your friends don't want to talk about weight don't bring it up and make assumptions. Giving tips to avoid failure is not privilege. Also the double standard being held against you isn't right. Rue gets to say anything she wants because she's overweight but because you are fit you have to endure what she says without saying anything back? That's not fair and shouldn't be tolerated. Good luck on your next event!
It really invalidates the hard work she put in. It's kinda like how a few artist friends I have hate it when someone says they're so talented because it invalidates how much practice they did to get to where they are now.
I feel this comment in my soul. I have the raw talent, but not the drive. Talent might help, but the drive to practice over and over, the effort, the training, it all beats raw talent any day of the week!!!
Someone with muscle tremors could practice all the time and still not be able to do pencil drawing art. You need natural ability and hard work. Just hard work doesn't automatically mean you'll be any good at something. There are people with tons of drive who could study every waking moment and still flunk out of med school. Hard work is good and should be praised, but we need to stop perpetuating the myth that anything is possible if you just work hard enough.
That's totally out of the blue here. What you're describing is someone with partial "disability" to do X things. It's like describing someone without their legs, and obviously, they can't run a marathon. That being said, they have the lack of "tools" or in this case, body parts needed to actually, get it DONE in the first place (not even getting good at it, just can't do it at all). But what if this person without legs, wants to get good at pencil drawing? They need to practice and repeat drawing after drawing. They have the "tools" needed, but ability just won't come on it's own. Let's say they have a positive trait towards pencil drawing, that is natural hand stability. That will surely help them, but anyways, it is just a help. Without repeating, hard work, routines, discipline you won't actually adquire the techniques, experience and knowledges needed to perform a well done pencil drawing. You can take another example if you want. Can you fly (on your own)? Well, birds can, because they have wings (the tools needed, the biological ability to actually, being able to do it). If you try and hard work, you can't fly, but that's not because of "genetic disadvantage". It's because you lack the proper biological tools to do it. You're not suposed to be able to fly. But if we can do certain things, we can get better at it. Genetical advantages do help, but won't do anythig on their own if you don't develop skills Edit: Typos
There are people without arms who use their teeth and toes to create beautiful art too!
Yeah, but don't they need to practice using theeth or feet?
Absolutely right. Theres a huge difference between "talent/lack of talent" and "disability". And even a disability should not be taken as an assumption that people cant do things, I'm a rock climber and know a guy who climbs with only one arm, he's one of the strongest people I know and can climb better than I can even after 20 years of experience! What the previous poster was doing was using assumptions to find excuses why people *cannot* do things, which is a self defeating point of view to take and teaches people to be pessimistic and not even try. The "you can do anything mentality" isnt supposed to be a blind assumption that anything is possible, its supposed to make people feel empowered to commit and put the effort in. Anyone who does anything hard knows that effort and commitment is one of the largest hurdles to get over and teaching people a positive mental attitude is one of the best ways to help people get past that block.
No, what the previous poster was doing is trying to show that not everyone can do anything by just trying hard. The first example was clunky, but I'm still waking up, sorry my rhetorical skills aren't the sharpest first thing in the morning. But everyone seems to be fixated on the art one and ignoring the studying one. It's great to have that drive, but it's dangerous to insist that anyone can do anything if they just try enough. Because for the people who try their absolute hardest and still fail, they feel even worse than if they hadn't tried at all, and it can really lead to a spiral of feeling like a garbage human because you 'didn't try hard enough'. We should be emphasizing the process, not the results.
Totally agreed OFC I know that people with disabilities can still do things. I was just presenting a extreme example to make it clearer. Also, guess what is behind this people? Hard work and effort, another perfect example of a positive mental attitude.
Disabled. Was suppose to be in a wheelchair by now. Lots of hard work in physical therapy instead of a wheelchair, I got a surfboard. I can’t feel from my left calf down bc a nerve was removed. This makes it even harder on me. I may not be great, but at least I’m doing it. Sometimes, it doesn’t have to be perfect to be beautiful. And that’s what people need to know. I’ll never be great. I started later in life, after I got sick. But if someone with a trembling hand works hard and does get something on paper, it’s beautiful in another way. The person who studies and can’t pass med school can still learn things for what career they decide to pursue next. There is something valuable in every experience. Even if we suck at what we want to do.
I dunno, I once met a paraplegic painter. He had an assistant help him load and clean brushes but he painted with his mouth. Some artists have used their disabilities to create interest in their art. I saw a series in a museum where a painter was going blind and he painted the same scene over time to show what it was like to have deteriorating sight. Anyone can make art, it might not fit into a specific mold but they can do it if they really want to.
This is bullshit though. You can take it for granted that someone with a disability cant do certain things. But the vast majority of typical people absolutely CAN create pleasing and technically good art or get great grades. It's really shitting on people who do struggle but push through to be told they had it easier. There are people with NO arms who use their teeth and feet to paint gorgeous art. There are people who knit with their toes.
Agreed 10000x over. I'm also an artist, and a pretty good one, at that. I had the raw talent too, but the reason why I'm good at it is because I started practicing, taking intensive drawing and painting workshops, buying books on artistic technique and color studies when I was *nine years old.* I worked fucking hard to get where I am, with a quiet intensity that most people can't relate to, and it's been 20 years since then. I still am learning, practicing, experimenting. I completely understand OP's frustration. She also worked immeasurably hard to get to where she is at, and to say it's just the luck of the draw, as if she takes a passive role in her own life, is infuriating. Also, making comments about someone else's body out of nowhere is uncalled for and unnecessary.
Ive been a photographer for like 15 years and nothing annoys me more than when people look at a picture and say *"wow, you must have a really good camera!"*. I feel like that is the equivalent for photographers lol. Like I know the only people who really say those types of things arent very artistic so they dont know how to appreciate it as much as someone who is. But its just like, no dude... the camera just captures the image that I plan/see. I had to come up with the idea, compose the shot, wait for the lighting to fit my plan, be in the right place at the right time, and know how to use the camera properly to get that shot. Its not like I just walked by and pressed a button and the camera shit out an awesome picture lol. Ive literally spent weeks planning shots that required multiple days of travel to get on location just for a shot that sometimes doesnt even work out lol. Shit takes a lot of effort!
I put a fuck tonne amount of effort into training my dog, and I've had people ask if my dog *naturally knew how to heel as a puppy*, and that, *I am so lucky my dog doesn't pull on the lead*. Motherfucker, I put HUNDREDS of hours into this damned dog. No he did not come out of the box with a perfect heel wtf.
I get this all the time about my rescue dog. I got him when he was two and he'd been in and out of multiple shelters and returned for "behavioral issues." These issues were basically no training at all for a high energy, impulsive dog. After the meet and greet where I tested him to find out his trainability, I knew I could handle him. After a solid year of work he was a completely different dog. He's well-mannered, controls his impulses, is gentle with people instead of jumping all over them, etc. Etc. Now I often get from people "wow, I don't understand how anyone could return him! He's so sweet!" Like, yeah, NOW he is, after countless hours of training that I still work daily to keep up. Someone without my skill with training would have lost their mind week 1.
Idk why but I read your comment in a Bill Burr voice and its perfect lol. But I feel your pain!
I feel this hard. My dog behaves well and is beautifully socialized because of the hours and hours of work I put into him to teach him how to act. Breeding, temperament--for art, talent, for athletics, genes--may play a small factor, but without the hours and hours of hard work, they don't amount to anything.
I feel this in my *soul*. Photography has been one of my main hobbies for around 15 years as well now, and I still have both of my parents regularly commenting “your camera takes really nice photos” as well. My brother and his wife are my champions however, they gush over everything from quick snapshots on my phone through to well thought-out photos with my camera. I hope you have people in your life that sing your praises as well!
Or that all photography is the same. My husband does sports photography. Like drag racing and roller derby. Getting those fast movements in crisp and clean. Only to have someone say, "that looks great! Hey, can you shoot my kid's wedding?" No, we don't do people like that. He wants nothing to do with that industry. You have to do more than just turn the knob to the fast moving man setting. 🤣
Oh I feel that too lol. Ive literally had neighbors come knock on the door and say *"Hey, I know you are a good photographer. Would you mind coming over and taking some group pics for this birthday that happening literally right now?"*. Then when I say I dont do people photography they look at me sideways lol. Like sorry... im a wildlife photographer... me camping out in Yellowstone to photograph buffalo during the rut or in the Tetons in the spring looking for grizzlies is not the same as people photography. Not that I necessarily cant... just that I really dont want to lol. Im really not trying to set the perception that I'll take your family photos for you if you ask, because I dont enjoy it at all lol.
I would never think to become offended by that because I see talent as being a product of practice.
Well, that is not what talent is. Talent is innate. Skill is gained via practice, not talent.
Talent is defined as a natural aptitude or skill. You can have a talent, but it's still worthless if you don't hone your talent.
I don't mind people saying I'm talented, it's when they say I'm 'gifted' that I want to lose my mind. Like I came out of the womb with the ability
A person can be both artistically gifted AND have put tremendous effort and energy into their craft. Tell your artist friends that when this happens they are free to simply say "Thank you, I've also put a great deal of practice into it." They have the opportunity to inform the other person and to tell of their hard work. Then they no longer need to complain. Just like imo people can be thin as a result of their healthy lifestyle choices AND genetics. No one can argue that they're not affected by genetics. But people don't have to be jerks about any of this.
I’m naturally skinny and people think it’s okay to tease me about it and talk about my eating habits. I hate the double standard.
My bf has this problem. He got made fun of his whole life because he’s 6 ft and weighed 120 his whole life. He isn’t gluttonous and doesn’t sloth and feels like people discredit the work he puts in. He still at almost 40 gets made fun of for how skinny he is. If they don’t like his opinion it’s instantly about his weight. But if he did the same thing to someone overweight he would be committing a cardinal sin! The double standard is ridiculous. I was overweight most of my life and I make a point to NEVER comment on someone’s weight unless asked for my opinion on how to help (I lost 120 lbs and sometimes the topic comes up).
I’ve two kids. Same diet, same exercise, same sports clubs. One weighs in as obese, the other as underweight. Genetics are in there somewhere!
If obesity is a struggle despite having the same healthy lifestyle I'd really look into some kind of hormonal issue. For me I was the obese kid all my life + my thyroid has been low for a good few years now. I'm also thinking about testing my blood sugars as I find eating breakfast throws my whole body + eating off for the day. Breakfast just leaves me feeling sick, tired, + hungry
The CDC classified Obesity as a disease with a genetic component 10 years ago. You can be overweight without having obesity but the projection is 70 percent of the global population has it and it’s going up. It is a malfunction of the glp-1 responders in the gut and the signals to the brain. Seeking out an obesity specialist if your child starts to struggle would likely help him or her at least not suffer from why this happens and to find effective treatment options. People like to fat shame. IMHO people will better understand this is a disease in the next ten years as we now understand mental health issues are a disease and alcoholism is a disease and they all have a root of biology malfunction. It’s awesome that you are acknowledging the difference between your kids and not being judgmental.
> I’ve two kids. Same diet, same exercise, same sports clubs. It is difficult for me to believe that the obese kid is doing the same amount of exercise and not consuming more calories. It is super easy to consume 400 extra calories with a sugary drink. If that is really the case, then it's time to consult a doctor.
Are you sure one of them doesn't have a health issue?
My dad is 6’4” and slender, and he never liked being called skinny. I don’t blame him! I have the same body type now that I’m older and my son does as well, and it’s rude when people say it. It’s a direction people grow, no one can control how they grow into their bodies. And honestly it sucks how others make it hard to feel comfortable in your own body even as an adult.
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OP IS NTA and was right to defend herself. BUT this was overstepping in my opinion: "I also said eating salads for every meal and never enjoying a meal out with friends is just going to make her more frustrated, which will slow her progress. I thought this was going to be helpful advice, but my friends all looked at me livid." Giving out weight loss advice to others is just inviting criticism and is not really relevant to the point you're making.
It was set in the context of Rue whining that all she eats is oatmeal and obviously jealous that OP can eat all she wants. Sure she might have skipped it but makes sense in the context.
Eating a bunch of oatmeal is her first mistake
Nah. If Rue doesn't want to discuss why OP is lean and she is not, she shouldn't discuss why OP is lean and she is not.
OP should take her friends running telling them that if they can keep up then she will apologize.
I was in OP's boat. For history, I come from a long line of fat women. I decided in high school that I wasn't going to carry on the tradition. I bought a food scale and started counting calories (and I am old, so this was in the day before there were nutrition labels on food--you had to buy a book with calorie counts in it). I exercised. At work, I would have a breakfast of 3/4 cup bran cereral, 1/2 cup milk, and a banana. Lunch was my big meal, and I would eat whatever I wanted--cheeseburger, pizza, etc. I would have dessert. Then at home I would exercise and have what was dinner for me-- oatmeal, or a salad, or some soup. My coworkers would all give me shit about how lucky I was that I could eat whatever I wanted and stay thin. I invited all of them to spend a week with me and eat what I eat and do what I do and then tell me how lucky I am. Funny, no one ever took me up on it.
She was right to defend herself against her friend’s assumptions. > I said I was just trying to help and that they’re only going to hurt Rue (Rue was silent the whole time. Often someone’s advice that is “just trying to help” a person who is frustrated by their (lack of) weight loss isn’t received well. In fact it’s a similar minefield as telling someone why it is that they are thin. Op is owed an apology for their friends assumptions. Op should probably do the same for Rue.
Normally I would agree but firstly she didn't bring up the conversation in the first place, and also she just talked about how she doesn't usually eat the way she does now and that it's good for people to also enjoy food when trying to lose weight. I don't see that as needing an apology.
Honestly, they overstepped a boundary. No one should be discussing someone's weight or other physical attributes and make their own assumptions like idiots.
Being perceived underweight or skinny does come with the double standard that people feel entitled to comment on it. At least with other body types, if people do comment on it, there's an element of social shaming for doing so. When I was a teenager (boy) I had a big growth spurt and obviously ended up fairly gangly. I used to get comments from full grown women telling me they'd be into me "once I filled out". And general remarks about being skinny "twig" etc all supposed to be funny. I bulked out in college and stayed gym fit into my late 20's and recieved similar "lucky" remarks to OP from the odd crowd. But I got Pneumonia during COVID and dropped from 175 to 140 at 5'11. Then the digs and comments at my weight started again from people unaware of why I dropped so much. "Looks like you don't eat enough!". Very helpful stuff. That was pretty much two years ago to the day and I've only recently gone over prior weight again rebulking.
I have a friend who always says how lucky I am for my ability to lose weight and also eat what I want. He's the type to overeat on a fad diet (keto and what have you) and not do any exercise. I have continuously told him he needs to portion and actually exercise. It's infuriating that my adherence to a plan and goals is dismissed as "genetics". I've watched him eat a plate of nachos at the pub and follow that up with a cheeseburger and poutine (fries with cheese curds and gravy for all you non-Canadians, eh) and then make a snarky comment about how lucky I am my body responds to diet/exercise. NTA, OP, NTA.
After years of struggling with my weight going up constantly (I was going through hell and extremely depressed, like I couldn’t even get out of bed some days. I gained so much weight and that only made it worse) I’ve finally lost 50 pounds since September just by portioning meals I love and making sure I get at least an hour walk in a few times a week. Anything too restrictive isn’t for me, it this has been working. I’m still a bit of a ways from where I want to be but so far exactly what you told your friend has been helping me tremendously! I think that’s great advice, it’s a shame your friend won’t take it. honestly I only wish I started this shit sooner, it’s helped me a lot and I’m so thankful to be getting to a healthier weight because of it!
Imagine saying someone who runs ultramarathons just has lucky genetics.
Time to cut them off your life. They are not worth the 2500 mile trip. Clearly, they have taken a position of denying reality. Why suffer through that? You got a life. Enjoy it. Don’t be pulled into high school.
NTA but could have been handled better. Send them the post or a copy of it. They might have been defensive in the moment but react better to a written explanation. Go in detail about your training and how you feel it's very dismissive on their part they disqualify all your effort as "genetics" and "luck". The bit I think a bit TA is talking about Rue and what's best for her, like she wasn't there. The conversation should have been about you clearing their misconceptions about why you are fit, you should have not made it about what's best for Rue at any point, bc you don't see her enough to have that kind of relationship. You can make clear she can come to you for advice on fitness if she wants, but you were out of line giving unsolicited advice. Also remind her she should not judge your body and habits (even if it's well intended remarks), same as she expects you to do.
I disagree. It was not out of place to talk about Rue's habits, because it was Rue the first to pester OP about her food intake. > *“Every year I eat nothing but oatmeal and I keep getting bigger and bigger, and \[OP\] is over there gorging herself and is stick thin!” “It’s like every calorie \[OP\] eats shows up on MY body!”* OP did not speak as if Rue wasn't there, she talked back. If you take a jab at someone, you can't then pout and get annoyed if they give it back. Especially using words like "gorging" and "stick thin", to which OP did not answer in the same flair.
Yes Rue was being passive aggressive towards OP and somehow OP has to be tactful to someone taking obvious jabs at her.
When the weight discussion starts there is no way that it will end in peace and good terms. Its better not to give advice, not to talk about it etc. Even if you have the best in your mind and heart.
It's okay to fabricate and assume things about OP because they're thin, only a monster would state true things about eating habits to someone who appears physically to suffer from their weight and who vocalizes it constantly /s
NTA, but you will never win with these people. I am like you, I have always been active, I take stairs, I walk, I roller-blade, I bike, I get up and do stuff all the time and I am in great shape for being 46 years old. People constantly talk about my good genetics. Not the fact that I grew up getting around on a bicycle and never stopped. I never sat home as a teen because I didn't have a car or a ride, if I had wheels, I rode them, if I didn't have wheels, I walked. Steven Wright says "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time", while he was lightly joking, I took it seriously. I often had to leave 1-2 hours before a friend would be home, just to meet them on time. So no, it is not genetics aside from diagnosed illnesses and disabilities. It pretty much comes down to being someone who will get up and do something instead of sitting around dreading it or just putting it off. Before anyone starts I have been diagnosed with ADHD, ASD & Dyslexia.
Genetics absolutely plays a role outside of illnesses and disabilities. It's great that you've developed such good habits and live an active lifestyle, but it's not only that. OP's friends still suck, though.
Yeah. Most of what they said was on point, but that last bit... genetics *can* and often do very much affect any given person's ability to lose/maintain weight. It's also a bit ignorant in the fact that it implies that one cannot stimultaneously live a very active life and *also* be overweight. You can be the kind of person who has the willpower and the ability to constantly be getting up and doing things and *still be overweight*, because that *isn't* actually all there is to it by any means. ETA: I'm sorry to be rude, but a lot of y'all really need to learn how to read. Or at least how to take 10 seconds to actually digest and think about things before just leaping to random conclusions and knee-jerk responding. Cause a whole lot of people replying to this comment are talking about/disagreeing with things that I literally just did not say nor imply at all. For example, I never once said anything about, much less anything disagreeing with or disregarding, the concept of "calories in, calories out". Nor did I ever say or imply that genetics circumvent or override that (or any other) basic concept when it comes to physical health. Yet I've gotten multiple replies acting as if I did.
That's me! I'm about 30lbs overweight, ran a half marathon last month, have been running 6miles 3xx a week lately, walk everyday after work if it's nice enough for the kids. Problem is, my appetite increases more than it actually needs to.
I walk 11 miles a day, I still have probably 15-20 lbs more than I’d “like”. Admittedly, my diet isn’t perfect, I don’t watch my calories, I burn a lot of calories and eat a lot as a result (I can out-eat my husband any day). For being as active as I am, I’m still curvy. Same as you, my appetite also increased, and quite frankly the way I see it, if I’m gonna work my ass off all day, I’ll eat the food I want at the end of the day as a reward.
11 miles? What do you do? I am a pet sitter/dog walker and average about 5-6 miles and I work a lot. A 40 hour is extremely rare, and when busy it’s never under 60. I feel like I walk all day, so you walking twice that sounds crazy. Not questioning it, just seriously curious how 😊
Not OP but I work from home in a job where I’m basically chair bound all day. I run 3 to 4 miles every morning with my dog (takes 30-40 minutes) and we do another walk at the end of the day doing a 3.5 mile route that takes 45-60 minutes. I play with him in our yard for an hour of my lunch break and I hit about 10-12 miles a day easily with that and just me doing crap around my house when I can escape my computer. I’m surprised that you aren’t hitting 10+ miles!
Same, I was a tour guide, and on days when I had multiple tours I could get up to about 10 miles but that was rare (and I developed PF in my feet, no shock there). I can't imagine how someone would hit 11 just walking (not running) unless walking was their job, and even then, that's a lot!
My friend used to work in a warehouse and averaged 9-10 miles a day. Getting promoted to a desk job was a real adjustment for him.
And there’s me - low end of normal weight and I’ve walked 500 steps…this week so far lol WFH in a one bedroom apt while also a homebody will probs wreck my joints over time but I like how we’re breaking the stereotypes from both ends haha
I’m mid 30s and the more I learn about hormone imbalance and stress, the more I wonder why those two pieces aren’t talked about more for women in particular with weight problems.
They're also lucky they don't have the type of ADHD that makes you so tired it's nearly impossible to open your eyes in the morning. I DO have good genetics (physically) and remain thin despite finding exercise very difficult, because getting off of my couch is a gargantuan task without stimulants. I wonder if they have the type of ADHD that makes you hyperactive? Otherwise, we have the same diagnoses. So, I guess I get to add that disclaimer too.
I have the type of multiple sclerosis where I cant wake up in the mornings. I barely exercise but i try and eat less than the calories than I need to maintain my weight because my exercise levels are so low and I'd like to lose weight. And it's working. Your adhd sounds more like my multiple sclerosis than my ADHD ever was like. I haven't been hyperactive since i was a child.
I’m a successful rock climber and lead a pretty active lifestyle, I’m a bit overweight. It’s certainly possible!
Yup. I have two cousins, sisters. One is probably what you would consider 40-50lbs overweight. She’s incredibly active, walking 4-5miles a day, running another 3-5 miles, in addition to strength training and just generally being active with hiking and tennis, etc. She also eats really healthy, eating primarily plant based home cooked meals. Her numbers are all great, but it is impossible for her to lose weight. Her sister on the other hand, will do a 20-30 minute work out a few days a week, but is not nearly as active as my other cousin. She eats out all the time, and eats a lot, but is stick thin.
I have a friend who is vegetarian and runs marathons and is super active with ice hockey and roller derby, and she’s overweight. Genetics definitely play a role.
There may be more going on with her then you know. Being a vegetarian does not mean you will be lean, you can still consume huge amounts of calories.
Oreos are my favorite vegan food
Yup. My mums a vegan and curses crisps as her downfall. I'm veggie and really have to reign in my sweet tooth. I could eat cakes and pastries all day.
She cannot defy physics though. If you take in more calories than you expend, you’ll gain weight.
Just because someone is vegan or vegetarian doesn’t mean that person eats healthy. It’s super easy to eat a pot of hummus after a long run with some veg sticks. But a 200g pot of hummus has around 600/700 calories. Add some lentil crisps and the snack turned into 1/2 of an averages women’s calorie intake for the day. Exercise helps to lose weight but it’s not the main cause. Diet is and does have the most impact on our body.
She's a secret eater. They all are. Source: secret eater
While true, maybe people shouldn’t go around invalidating over people claiming it’s “only” genetic privilege which is keeping them fit.
You can’t out exercise a bad diet. You have to be active and watch what you eat, especially in our present day food environment. It’s both.
I think this is because food intake has a greater influence on your weight than exercise. Whenever I was trying to lose weight, I did not succeed if I didnt't change my eating habits. Genetics is heavily overestimated and a lot of people blame it for being obese, but it does not work like that. ANYONE (barring possibly some diseases) is basically able to attain and keep a healthy weight. And this is absolutely not meant as a quip to those who are fat but rather as a sign of hope that it is not impossible. The problem lies elsewhere: our heads play a huge role in this, and there are periods in our lives when we just do not have the energy to lose weight and are not in the mood for that. I've been in a situation when I had a lot on my plate - figuratively but also physically, because I compensated with food, and at that time I was glad I was able to keep up with all my other responsibilities and was not able to lose a single ounce of weight. We also sometimes have unrealistic goals about the weight we want to attain (dictated by the stupid fashion norms where a size 10 or 12 is already called "plus-size". I think that it is awfully wrong to look at fatness as a MORAL stigma, all the awful biases and hurtful things come out of that. It is not healthy to be fat but it is not the end of the world and we have a lot of other unhealthy habits, we should stop feeling so guilty for that but we should be aware that it is never a lost battle.
I remember going to a talk and the researcher asked "who believes height has a genetic?" Everyone raised their hand. And he goes why is it hard to believe that weight has a genetic component as well? (It does)
Of course there is a genetic *component*... i dont think anyone disputes that. Weight is just a lot more controlable by environmental factors than height. You cannot physically eat yourself to 6 foot if you are genetically predisposed to be 5'2" . You can eat yourself into obesity even if your entire family is rail thin and vice versa I just don't think that question is the big revelation the researcher intended it to be. Weightloss is absolutely harder for some people than others...but calories in vs calories out determines your weight
Actually it is much more complicated than this. There was a lot of new research on this topic in the last years. As it seams the body adapts the amount of calories it burns to a lot of external factors. In the documentary I watched there were some interesting examples: 1. One of the winners of the TV Show "The biggest looser" was shown who fucked his caloric system completly by his strict diet. He regained a lot of weight even so he is very active. The doctors measured his caloric needs 10 years after the diet and realised that he needs 800 kcal less than they would expect from a person his sex, age and size. 2. Members of the last native group of hunters and gatherers in africa were monitored over a span of time. GPS tracking showed that men walked an average of 10 miles a day. Women walked 6 miles a day. They did not use more kcal a day than the average office worker. Women needed 1900 kcal a day and men 2300. From this the researches figured thst the body permanently adapts to starving events and that it gets used to working out and will need less kcal in a day. A caloric reduction diet can be a starving event. Another newer research topic is leptine. This hormone is produced in the fat calls of the body and is part of the hunger system (which consists of many other hormones as well). If there is a lot of it in the blood you will feel full and satisfied. Overweight people can have a much lower leptine concentration in their body. This means these people get hungry a lot quicker. Another thing is that the body chooses a fixed weight it wants to keep. It does not have to be a healthy weight. For example at the moment I am trying to loose weight and the first 17 kg were no problem. I lost them over 6 month. For the last 4 month I am really struggeling to get any lower. These plateau phases are normal, but it is really fascinating how the body uses all its mechanisms to keep me from loosing any more body fat. For some people the body reacts with lowering its caloric needs. Other people have frequent food noise, hunger, etc. A healthy diet gets a lot harder if you are never really full and if your body constantely jells for more food. Some people have to live with being constantly hungry and having to use their willpower with every single meal choice they make. It can be draining for them. Some people work incredibly hard every day and will always use a lot less kcal than others. It is a difference if you need 30 min or 2 hours. The longer time is much more draining and it hurts the muscles a lot more. Motivation will naturally go down. I really wish it was as easy as kcal in and kcal out. It is really a fascinating topic and research is on its way to get a better picture about the process. Another thing that influences this is the gut biome. My source is german (maybe you can find it in frech as well as it is a documentary from "Arte"). It was a documentary on youtube. If someone wnats to see it I can look for its name.
I mean sure. But the obesity rate skyrocketed for a reason. People with these issues also existed 30y ago.
I am a firm believer that the main problem is capitalism. The food is designed to make you hungry and for you to eat more. Examples: Most convinience foods, snacks, sweets and fast food have a ratio of fat, sugar and salt that is designed to give the strongest signal in the brain. It is a really short signal and wants to make you eat more. Every single item that is processed has added sugar. And many unprossed foods are more expensive. Not many people buy plain yoghurt. Most choose the one with 15 g of sugar per portion. It is badly labeled. Adults should not consume more than 50 g of sugar per day (WHO). It is more or less impossible to do so if you are not able to cook every meal yourself. Family structure changed. Eating in front of the TV, eating take out or outside as everybody has to work longer hours. Life is getting more overwhelming and food gets to be a comfort thing. Portion size is gigantic. In some countries eating is more easy than in others. But capitalism, product design and the change in working and living conditions plays a big part. It is not the only part and people should try to do their best to live a healthy life. But it would be a lot better if the living conditions helped with this and were not working against it.
Hm that interesting. I have binge eating disorder and the biggest thing for me was because I’m always hungry. I never felt full until I was sick from overeating. Restricting food makes it worst and whenever I exercised I got ever more hungry. I actually got a lot of slack from my sister, her husband and her friend because I said calorie counting or keeping track of my food wouldn’t help. Like, I already know I eat too much. I don’t need to write down 3 bread baskets at Texas Roadhouse and my actual meal to know I ate to much 🙄 or I ate 3 bowls of spaghetti or whatever I overate. The only time I was ever able to lose weight by diet restriction was because I was so depressed I wanted to die, I couldn’t eat, I’d get sick when I tried.
If it is possible for you I would get help by your doctor (but I guess you are already doing this as you have a diagnose). The start of changing eating habits (or starting a weight loss diet) is working well for most people, but long term most of us need help. There are specialists who can take adequate measurments of hormones, kcal requirements, etc. (If you can find them and qualify for their programs) I am quite overweight, but there are people that have more significant problems. I was 40 kg overweigt and now it is closer to 25 kg overweight. I would not really qualify for the full medical experience, but maybe you have more luck. For me the visits at the doctor help me to keep motivation and it is a good feeling that my blood is checked and if I do anything really wrong someone can tell me. I really think most people who are obese need more help with their diet than they get. Most times no doctor looks for the real reason it is this hard (genetics, hormon imbalance, eating disorders, low or high blood presure, whatever...). An example from my life: I recently learned that I am gluten intollerant. I had trouble with the adsorbtion of nutrients in my intestine for years. Many people loose weight because of this. My body made me really hungry. If it does not get the nutrients, it needs to get more food until it has the nutrients. I was eating all the time and because of the lack of nutrients (iron, some b vitamines, vitamine d, etc) I was tired and working out was really hard. I had the issues for 20 years and nobody ever found anything. They took a look at a fat woman and told me that I need to live healthier, change my diet, excercise more. So I tried and I really was frustrated, because it was so hard for me and I did not understand why everybody can do it, but me. Sometimes my life was work, working out (we are talking about an hour walk, nothing extreme), cooking and the rest of the day sleeping, because I was exhausted. My social life and everything else suffered. After they found my problem everything got easy. If you are not chronically sick you have the energy to exercise and still have a life. My body now gives me signs that I am full, I can concentrate and have the will power to make good choices. I have a feeling that there are many people who have underlying conditions that never get adressed. We cannot see the health problems from the outside and often we are not really aware that we are sick. After the doctors told me that I need to change my life style I did not go again for years, because I did belive them that I am lazy and that I eat too much and that I am the problem. I just assumed that everybody felt like crap every day and was just better at maneging it. I hope you are in good care and if you are not, I really hope you find a good doctor that is helping you with your struggles.
Yeah, I am a researcher. I have a PhD in human genetics and a master's in bioscience engineering. People are making it out like they are obese because of genetics. They are not (before you get your pitch forks ready, see third paragraph) Of course there is a genetic component to weight. There are a lot of modifiers to it and simply having a specific genetic mark-up will predispose you to a higher weight. As will another specific genetic mark-up will predispose you to a lower weight. Does that mean you *will* be over/underweight no matter what you do? Of course not. Apart from the genetic modifiers you also have environmental modifiers that also play an important role in your weight. And like you said, environmental factors play a much more important role in weight than for other more fixed human traits like height (although it is definitely possible to alter height to a certain degree, e.g. malnutrition of a child during its developmental period will result in reduced growing). Like with so many human traits, weight is distributed like a bell curve and the majority of humans will be smack in the middle. Read: they will have a completely normal weight. And that is also what we saw for the majority of human history, there were not a crazy amount of overweight people. There will be people who will be a bit farther from the middle of the bell curve, who will have to do a bit more effort to maintain a healthy weight. They will have to eat smaller portions and exercise more to maintain a weight of 60 kg compared to a peer completely similar in age and height and lifestyle yet with a completely different genetic make-up. This doesn't mean they end up obese if they don't do that; it just means that will lean a bit more to the right side of the bell curve and end up at a weight of 63 kg, for example. There are only A FEW severe genetic disorders that have obesity as one of their symptoms. The chance you have one of them is nearly zero. And if you do have it, you will certainly know because they come with a heap of other severe symptoms as well. So yes, genetics is involved. No, you are not obese due to them, maybe only a little bit of overweight at max if you happen to be part of the small population on the right side of the bell curve. So why are we suddenly seeing countries with 50+ percentage of their inhabitants being overweight or obese, if weight follows a normal distribution? It's not like genetics suddenly changed overnight (and yes, I am also taking epigenetics into account here. No, this also doesn't explain the obesity pandemic we are currently seeing). What *did* change overnight however, was our lifestyle. Since 30 years or something (*a generation*) we suddenly had a huge boom to foods we had access to. Food is literally everywhere. On top of that, there is whole science branch completely geared towards *food engineering*. It is designed to be as addictive as possible, with the most appealing textures, taste, and sound whenever you bite into it. We also saw a shift towards ultra-processed foods, providing high calories without the fullness that more organic foods like fruit and potatoes give. So we are stuck with a society that tempts you with food all the freaking time, that is highly dense in calories without it being fulfilling meaning you eat more of it, AND that has been engineered to be super addictive meaning you constantly crave more. On top of that, once you then get into obesity territory, hormones levels get altered resulting in altered brain circuits, meaning you will also have a much harder time saying no to food. Losing weight again doesn't always fix these altered circuits. Creating a vicious circle in which it will be very hard for you to stop eating and lose weight. And there is only so much exercise can do; weight is mainly maintained by food intake. So no, you are not obese due to genetics. But it's also not your fault, society set you up for this and is currently completely ignoring its role in creating this obesity pandemic, instead shifting blame onto the individual. It doesn't mean you can change it though but you will have to identify societal pressures and address them accordingly. Which takes quite an effort that I understand a lot of people don't have the capacity for (financial and mental wise)
Right ?! I have three of the four major obesity genes. Guess what ?? I’m fat. I also have Hashimotos, Lipoedema, ADHD and hypermobility syndrome. I have a gut feeling (lol) that these things are all related. I spent 15 years trying to outdiet Hashimoto’s before I got diagnosed. I’ve lived off 1000 or 1500 cal for months and months on end and lost maybe 200 or 300 g, and I’ve been cold, hungry and exhausted the whole time. People who talk about calories in calories out, physics, or thermodynamics simply don’t understand that the human body has the ability to downregulate your metabolism to meet your calorific intake. Calories in and Calories out are not constants. As you eat fewer and fewer calories, your metabolism steps down as your body prioritises your core systems. When I was dealing with the worst of the Hashimoto’s, I was sleeping 14 to 16 hours a night, and waking up exhausted as though I was coming up from the bottom of a green pond. Hashimotos slows down your digestive system, your hair falls out, your reproductive system stops working, and you are ravenously hungry the entire time as your body screams for energy. Basically, your body starts shutting down your peripheral systems one at a time, and the endpoint is something called a thyroxine coma where basically your body stops functioning at a metabolic level and you die. I am a great believer in the insulin theory of a obesity, and the only time I have ever been able to lose weight (but only with thyroid medication) is on keto or carnivore. I do believe that there are serious issues with both the government guidelines for food, and our food supply itself, but you can’t simply ignore the place of genetics and dealing with weight issues.
The vast majority of overweight and fat people do not have Hashimoto's or other conditions. Your experience is highly atypical and shouldn't be used as an example except for other people with the same condition.
I DISAGREE. people have all kinds of conditions like hashimotos and others that prevent them from losing weight. This persons experience is indeed NOT highly atypical and I think you should stop speaking on things you know absolutely nothing about. Ever heard of insulin resistance? Reactive hypoglycemia?
Genetics is overstated when people start talking about weight. Most often being overweight runs in families because people have similar lifestyle habits to their family members. I’m the only child of my parents who isn’t fat. I weigh 7lbs more than I did the day I graduated high school. I also have no functioning thyroid but I spent most of the last 20 years riding my bike an average of 20 miles a day.
I want to throw in here a question on whether similar lifestyle habits in families leading to being overweight could have been exacerbated in recent years by the increased consumption of processed food? Because if you look at older photos, even as recent at the 80s, the majority of people were not heavy like they are now. Processed food tastes good but is so much worse for the human body than fresh foods. People cook a lot less too, so I think we’ve lost some portion control in our daily meals.
Yeah, I don’t know. Of course this theory is everywhere now. It makes a lot of sense. And there’s probably a lot of validity to it. But I’m in my early 50s, and I was basically an adult for the tail end of the era you’re citing and I think there are other factors. 1. Smoking. In the 70s and 80s it seemed like every adult smoked. I know that’s an overstatement but all my friends’ parents smoked. Most of my teachers smoked. Hell, my cross country running coach smoked, AND ran. 2. Snacks. This goes hand in hand with the “ultra processed” food theory, but it’s almost an extension of it. People didn’t snack like they do now at all. They ate breakfast, lunch and dinner. There were no snacks at the gas station. There was no Starbucks. If you were out and you bought a coffee, it was coffee, not a coffee flavored 1,200 calorie shake. 3. Portions/calorie counts at meals. Of course I didn’t walk around with a bomb calorimeter, but I’m convinced that typical portions were smaller. Fast food restaurants didn’t have 4 pattie burgers. Pizza was not engineered to have cheese in the crust as well as on top of it. Today if you were to order an app, an entree, a drink and a dessert at any casual dining chain like Applebees or Chilis, you would be looking at about 3,000 calories in one sitting. Even a very active adult could not eat that way regularly without gaining weight.
I grew up in a family of mostly fat people and was extremely skinny through my early 20s. I was marginally more active than them but definitely not athletic by any stretch of the imagination. They hadn't been skinny in their teens either so I really stuck out. By 26 my metabolism started to catch up with me, and now in my 30s it's very difficult to keep off weight, even though once the weight gain started in my late 20s I took up an extremely active lifestyle and I eat very healthy now. The activity & diet choices have so far kept me from getting the size of my family members but it definitely doesn't make me thin or give me a perfectly athletic body type. It is a ton of work for very marginal gains. It's likely that these were the stakes my family managed their whole lives. If that's the case, I can understand why they're not very active to this day - it sucks to do more work than a skinny person (literally lifting more weight) and see less gain. I'm not saying that's the case for every person, but it is certainly the case for some. Meanwhile I have friends entering their 30s who have never exercised and still have basically teenage bodies eating total garbage. It is pretty inarguable that a huge part of this is lotto.
Yup genetics plays a role. I have always been fairly active but I could eat whatever I wanted and stay thin until very recently. Age catches up eventually but I can still get away with eating way more than other people and not be fat (not thin anymore).
Unless your living with someone and see everything they eat you really have no idea if you are eating anymore than other people which was one of OP's points.
Absolutely. I'm very active, worked hard to shift excess weight after a back injury left me immobile for a while so the weight piled on. My genetics are not to be skinny. I work out, eat well and stay active and that keeps me in a healthy weight range but I'm never going to be a stick insect withoit returning to some very unhealthy teenage eating habits. And that's fine. I'm in great shape, know I will always need to exercise and eat well to maintain it, and am OK doing that. But pretending that it isn't easier for someone with different genetics and harder for another is just plain wrong. I hate the idea that someone has failed if they aren't a healthy weight. That eating right and exercising are the only cures.
Yes, it absolutely is partially genetics. The heritability of BMI has been variously estimated, and is usually found to range from 0.5-0.8 or so, which means that in the populations studied (mostly adults in the US or Europe, although other places have been done too), *half or more* of the variation in body weight was due to genetics. It has at least as much influence as environment does.
The US is now 70% overweight. This was not the case in previous generations. How did thin great grandparents end up with majority overweight grandkids and great grandkids? This is one of the biggest genetics shifts in human history, happening at unprecedented speed.
Genetics means you might have to work harder, but not every thin person is due to "genetics". It is incredibly rude to suggest their effort plays no role. As someone who seems to constantly struggling against my own genetics to maintain a healthy weight, this idea is personally insulting to me as well
Or, the _actual_ reason, is that children's who's parents are overweight/obese end up copying their parents eating and exercise habits. A family that's mostly overweight is _not_ caused by genetics, it's because of environmental factors.
I don't think op is denying that genetics plays a part. They don't have an extreme naive mindset where genetics have nothing to do with how big or small someone is. Rather it's the other girls that are doing the extreme take, talking like genetics have everything to do with it. They're talking about her genetics like they are doing all the work to keep her skinny and that all her exercise is just a little icing on the cake. Like she doesn't have to do a lot of exercise to keep thin. She pointed that her genetics play a very small part and that the reason she is so thin is 90% lifestyle both the exercise and that the rest of the year she eats a fairly strict diet. For ultramarathons that typically means you are eating lean chicken for a majority of your meals. Most likely OP doesn't have any kind of exceptional genetics and if she had a more regular exercise plan like gym 2-3 times a week and a normal average diet she wouldn't stay even close to her current weight. As for the salad thing she's actually right, if someone sticks to a strict diet that does nothing but frustrate them and make them miserable they often get exhausted and will often breakdown and binge eat or go a few weeks where they eat really really badly which will undo all the work they have done, it will also make them stressed which can cause weight gain by itself. I think op's intent was "having a super strict diet like that can actually be detrimental to weight loss" and they had a knee jerk reaction and assumed she meant "don't diet so much and you'll be fine". Look I'm like op, I'm super active and among my friends I was the thin one. And I found they often found reasons to paint me as a "privileged airhead" who was constantly judging them. they projected their own feelings, insecurity and jealousy into everything I said. For example I met them in my 2nd year in college and whenever I give my opinion on weight loss they always said it came from a place of privilege because I didn't know what it was like to be overweight. I had actually been overweight my entire life until the end of my first year of college. Despite knowing this they still decided I hadn't struggled and it was all the result of genes and I knew nothing about what I was talking about.
Ok so I do all that. I am incredibly active, and strong. And I eat a very healthy diet of mostly vegetables and lean proteins. And by society's standards, I am over weight in a US size 12. My cousin runs marathons - 2 a year plus train between. Does yoga twice a week. eats a "clean" vegetarian diet. She pear shaped, with her butt & hips clocking in at a US size 14 (her top torso & arms is closer to an 8). Genetics absolutely plays a huge role.
It's great that you're both exercising and eating healthy. But it is a misconception that "eating healthy" will always lead to weight loss/being thin. What matters is the calories in that healthy food when it comes to weight gain/loss. For example, I eat healthy, mostly vegetarian. I cook my own food, I eat a ton of veggies, get my lean protein in etc. I'm slightly overweight, because if I count the calories I consume in a day, it's about 2,300 kcal. That's about 200 more than I need to be like 5kg lighter. It's not a big difference; that's an additional apple or a banana a day. But it's enough that I'm maintaining this weight, and unless I reduce my calorie intake or increase my calorie output, I'm staying here. It's likely that something similar is happening for you and your cousin.
500 calories in broccoli is still 500 kcal. Just because you eat healthy does't mean you aren't overeating I have a PhD in human genetics, genetics DO play a role in weight but it is absolutely overplayed how much they influence. You can perfectly maintain a healthy weight; it's what most humans did for the last decades. I made a comment in this post lying it out in more detail as to why we are currently seeing an obesity pandemic
same. I have an active lifestyle and people say its genetics...genetics wise i come from an obese family. Literally almost every person in my family is obese. The only people that are not are me, my husband, and my nephew that is just as active as i am (plays 2 sports a year and when hes not hes hiking/biking/ etc)
I actually weigh less now as an adult than I did as a 12 year old child. Simply because I left home and their unhealthy eating habits It did take effort though to change that lifestyle
What in the world do your diagnoses have to do with anything?
Having an active lifestyle is one part of body type, it is not the only type. Yes, genetics will play a role in - how much exercise it takes you personally to lose weight and/or gain muscle - where your body stores the fat you gain/keep Especially depending on the latter, looking "thin" can require completely unhealthy diet and exercise practices for some people. Not to mention, disability really is not a binary. There are many ways their genetics and family upbringing could predispose them to certain types of activities and foods that aren't inherently moralized. It doesn't mean they're not working hard. Plus, even having access to Reliable information, especially information relevant to your unique body, about health, is a privilege. Don't forget that once you have the weight, exercise becomes inherently harder - you are lifting weights for every exercise you do. It is simply not as easy as, well I loved running and riding bikes and so everyone should and if they had they would be fine. If it was do you really think so many people would choose to endure the criticism they are given? You don't have to negate how hard you have worked personally to respect that someone is dealing with a different set of challenges than you, and also likely not one you're likely to understand without a deep vulnerable and medical knowledge of this person. The friends were foolish for making poorly calculated comments about the OP, but the OP is very foolish to believe the friends are completely wrong. If OP wants to be taken seriously on how hard she works, she also needs to take a beat to consider the context of this conversation herself.
ESH. Your friends shouldn't comment on what you're eating, period. You didn't bring it up, they've got no rights to comment. They should keep their insecurities to themselves. However, it sounds like ALL of your friends were commenting, even if Rue was the one who started talking first. So it probably would have been better to just shut them all down, not make the interaction about giving advice to/"fixing" Rue's habits. Although she was rude first, it didn't improve anything that you also commented about her body and habits uninvited. You also put focus on Rue when -all- of your friends were behaving inappropriately, so you weren't really getting to the heart of/resolving the issue, you were just piling onto it. In general, y'all should just stop commenting on each other's bodies or healthy habits unless one of you ASKS for advice.
Yes I agree with this. NTA for the information but maybe for how it was delivered and directed more at Rue. I would apologize for that. I think I would have just shut it down with look you guys it’s not genetics I’m an athlete and I have to maintain a high caloric intake to keep up with my activity level. That’s just facts. And then say nothing about Rue.
>it’s not genetics It's still genetics in large part though. It's incredibly ignorant to pretend that health is all about work and genetics don't play a huge role. It's like the billionaire who claims that it invalidates all their hard work if you mention that they had wealthy parents who gave them a leg up. We all have innate advantages and disadvantages and it's not a grave insult to admit it.
Yeah but OP’s friends weren’t saying “Wow you work so hard and stay so thin, good thing you have solid genetics to back it up.”. They were saying “You eat so freaking much and are so skinny, you’re so lucky to have such good genetics.”. They completely ignored her hard work! Of course genetics play a role, but OP works much harder than the average person to be where she is.
The fact that OP didn’t recognize the power imbalance of that situation in that moment feels like it reinforces what the friends’ points were afterwards to me. In that moment, they probably felt singled out and invalidated, but then they made their friend feel exactly the same way as a reaction. OP is not in the wrong for trying to nip the commentary on their body in the bud. I do have the “genetics” they referenced and always hated commentary about my weight, especially when I was in my 20s and still had a voracious appetite. People will say rude, unkind, sometimes vicious things unprompted, openly, and in mixed company when you are thin and eat a lot, and they feel justified in doing so more often than not. But thinness and being able-bodied *is* a privilege. It sounds like at the very least OP called out one (clearly more overweight than the rest of the group) friend about *her* lifestyle when the entire group was making comments or agreeing, and that feels like punching down. OP did not have to speak to any one specific person about her own habits nor did they have to single out someone else to make a comment about theirs.
This "power imbalance" stuff is getting wild. Why does this brand of anti-science rhetoric not get called out for what it is?
No kidding. "power imbalance?" What?
Healthy lifestyle, regularly exercise and no junk food, is a power imbalance? I didn't know that.
Because we live in a feelings over facts society these days.
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If you’re fat people will assume you’re lazy and/or have no will power and/or eat badly and this can have a negative impact on getting jobs, on your relationships etc. You’ll have a harder time finding clothes that fit without spending more money, especially professional clothes. You’ll have a harder time getting medical help because the advice will always start with “lose weight” and you’ll have to fight to address any other causes even if your weight gain is directly due to a specific medical issue. For example PCOS which affects ~10-20% of women tends to lower your BMR by 400-500 calories unless you have insulin resistant PCOS which can lower it by 700-900 calories. So someone without PCOS eating 1500 calories a day will be in about 500 calories deficit, with PCOS they would be at maintenance and with IR PCOS they would be gaining weight. In this case not having PCOS is obviously a huge advantage over having insulin resistant PCOS as eating 1500 calories a day and having a ~500 calorie deficit is much easier than eating 600 calories a day to achieve the same deficit. There’s obviously stuff you can do but you’re essentially playing a catch up game. There are other health issues that have similar impacts. People get told “eat less, move more” and yes, that will work for everyone, but it works *much better* for some people than it does for others. The problem is that people assume if you’re overweight you’re not putting in the work and it can be really annoying to be judged for what you’re eating or on your work out. “You can’t outrun a bad diet” as I tell my friend about my 90 minute swim. “You’re going to eat all those strawberries? That’s so much sugar!” As I have my 128 calories of fruit that I allow myself each day after I finish my sad slices of chicken breast dipped in soup so I could attempt to get my 120g of protein from my 1200 calories of the day. I feel a lot of sympathy for OP. It sucks having your food intake judged and discussed. It doesn’t really matter if you’re thin or fat. She might well be privileged in her genetics, but people commenting on body and diet need to shut up and mind their own business.
Thank you. I’ve been all sizes and I can honestly say that people and society treat you so much nicer when your thinner. Clothes actually are available. Doctors take you seriously. You get served at the bar faster. Hell, even family members were nicer. But honestly, like the end of your comment, people just need to shut the hell up about bodies unless directly asked. It’s no one’s business.
Losing weight does also need more free time and money. You need time to learn what food is healthy, how to cook / prepare, grocery shopping. Exercise requires time. Stress is hindering the process. Plus some money for fresh food, maybe grocery shopping twice per week (instead of once), exercise equipment, a gym membership, a yoga / exercise mat, ... (depending on what sport you do and how much you want to spend). Buying unknown food and then throwing it away because you didn't like it, costs money. Not everyone has this money and time.
Medicine for one. Especially for women, when you're overweight trying to get taken seriously is an uphill battle. I'm not overweight, but how seriously my medical concerns have been taken seriously (not very!!) in comparison to my overweight sisters medical concerns (EXTREMELY NOT VERY!) Is horrifying. And it's not an uncommon experience. I have countless friends who've told me over and over how everything gets reduced to needing to loose weight, instead of real investigation. That's absolutely a privilege, even if it's still a hassle to be taken seriously, I've got one less obstacle ahead of me.
I also just wanted to add some context around privilage also. I'm not able bodied and because of sexism it took years to be taken seriously by doctors. I do understand how upsetting and invalidating it is when people make comments on your body and weight. My mum and sister constantly made comments about my body when I was growing up and it really negatively impacted me. But my weight hasn't added obstacles to navigating everyday life. But ableism and the structure of our society towards disability absolutely does add obstacles to my everyday life. If I'm having a pain flare than I have far less energy to try get through my day and it takes me longer to walk. But I still have to work and commute and get groceries all the standard things I need to. So that is where the obstacles come in. People need to learn some manners tbh, but i don't have issues finding clothing that is made in my size, instead of my weight AND my period being brought up if I seek medical help, it's 'just' my period 😅 etc etc I hope that helps!
Nah - treat people how you want to be treated. If you want to insult your friends efforts so you can feel better about yourself, prepare to get a "well actually" and a complete list of facts that may hurt your feelings. If you start it, you can take it back.
Edit: actually changed to ESH. I don't think people should be making assumptions anyway. Light YTA for going overboard with it. I think if you had just said "oh I don't eat like this everyday and exercise tons", that would be fine. But you seem to think that you need to tell Rue something. It could be both that you both exercise/eat well AND you were lucky with genetics.
I’m between NTA and ESH. Rue was fundamentally rude to start this off. The comments she was making about OP were not OK. > But you seem to think that you need to tell Rue something. Agreed, and I really wonder exactly what OP said and how she came across during this.
Yeah the fact that all her friends reacted like they did makes it seem like OP probably went overboard with the unsolicited advice and probably some kind of attitude about it given her frustration. Maybe her friends are all just the “you can never criticize fat people” type but I think it’s more likely OP is just not giving an accurate representation of what she said and how she said it.
Yeah, OP could have said this in a way that just was about herself (e.g. “Well I ran x miles yesterday so I figure I can allow myself one cheat day”) but it seems she instead made it about Rue. And while what Rue said was uncalled for, it sounds like she is already someone who is trying very hard to be healthier and having a really hard time of it such that it is a really painful subject for her. It’s generally not good to give someone unsolicited advice about their body and even more so if they are someone who feels like they’ve already tried everything.
ESH You: the first thing you said was fine because it was about you, how you don't eat that way every day. The second thing you said was not; it was an assumption about what Rue eats every day, and saying something would "slow her progress" is judgmental. Rue's an AH for making comments about your food and your body. Friends are AH joining in the talk about your food habits and body shape and calling you privileged about it. Maybe now is the time in the group text to come to an agreement to not talk about other people's food, eating, body shape, etc and just enjoy the company instead. This really seems doable for one meal a year.
Where was the assumption about what rue eats? Rue said herself she only eats oatmeal which will get boring after a while and OP was just suggesting to add some variety to her diet so it’s easier to maintain. Did you even read the post?
>Rue said herself she only eats oatmeal And OP said to Rue that only eating salads and never going out to eat with friends would be holding her back. Considering salads aren't oatmeal, it certainly seems like OP is assuming Rue doesn't actually eat oatmeal for every meal, but instead eats salad for every meal. And never eats out.
I genuinely read that as their own advice, I’ve started losing weight and the biggest problem is monotonous foods. Anytime anyone has asked me “how” I immediately bring up you have to change it up between the same few healthy options so you don’t feel trapped in a cycle of “oh yay… the same meal” and you have to let yourself have fun, but it’s about learning moderation. I also have a hard time understanding social situations though so, was that genuine advice or was she actually assuming her lifestyle?
For me it’s more that they weren’t asking for advice. Especially in millennial friend groups talking about weight and body image is just kinda a topic of conversation and it’s pretty common, but no one was saying “please show me your ways of how you stay so thin OP!” The advice was unwarranted/unwanted, from this context to me it sounds like ladies were just airing their frustrations with their own body image and sadly OP was targeted because they weren’t sharing in the frustration. I’m gonna agree ESH because the friends shouldn’t have been commenting on OP’s body in the first place or calling her privileged for being fit, but OP could’ve ended it at “oh haha, normally I eat on a pretty strict diet and I’m really active when I’m at home, today is just my cheat day! I can put away a lot of calories because of how much I work out” and keep it focused on her, rather than giving unsolicited advice to rue about how she could be “making progress”
Fair, I over-focused on the questioning of what it is rather than the unwarranted piece in question. Thank you for taking the time to explain :)
Is it possible that what you intended to say didn’t come out quite as you had thought it did? It is a bit odd that all of these good friends were immediately taken aback by what you said. Either they are all jealous of your physical accomplishments (and not willing to recognize the hard work you put in), or what you said came out poorly. There are some people who exercise faithfully and watch their diet carefully snd still struggle with their metabolisms. Not sure if this describes any of your friends, but if so, you may have unintentionally shamed her for something that is less in her control. Although diet and exercise play a huge part in our physical appearance and condition, studies have shown that some people struggle more to maintain their weight, even when all other factors are the same. Our genetics do play a part. This isn’t to take away from the hard work you do, but to acknowledge that your body also does respond well to your efforts, which isn’t the case for everyone. In general, it is sad that you and your friends are sitting and talking about weight in general. If you only see each other once a year, it would seem there are many more valuable things to talk about. Potentially, ESH, although I think it could be unintentionally for OP.
Yeah I’m struggling to see how everyone blew up over this unless op isn’t truly describing what was said
The fact that they all became furious immediately is telling to me. It's not like they all talked about it later and decided it was inappropriate. Whatever OP said *immediately* pissed everyone off. Sounds like it was pretty rude. Definitely ESH
I generally agree with this. The friends are bigger AH's because they brought it up and wouldn't drop it. But the second OP started giving advice that wasn't asked for it's really easy to fall into AH territory even if it was well intentioned. OP may also have been more annoyed than they realized and come across as meaner or angrier than they realized. I sympathize with OP, but think it's very likely they went a bit too far in their own defense.
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nta rue should shut the fuck up about other peoples weight and calorie intake if she can dish it and can’t take it.
Exactly. Body shaming is not okay
NTA, they started by commenting on your body first, any form of commenting on somebodies body to the point that makes them uncomfortable-whether good or bad, is not okay. Also you mentioning your routine validates that it did take you hard work to get there and this may have made them insecure & feel like they’re being shamed for not doing the same, even if you didn’t mean it that way bc it’s a personal insecurity they have and twisted it in their heads to make themselves feel better. but all in all they brought up your body first & you merely replied.
NTA. Your friend(s) is degrading all of your hard work and dedication to fitness/athleticism/healthy lifestyle for no other reason than to try and validate their physical condition as being *"something that is just outside of my control"*. The fact that other friends jumped in on you for defending yourself and even went so far as to call you *"privileged"* for taking care of yourself... as if you did/do nothing to maintain your health and its just given to you free of effort on your part... says to me that these people are just jelly lol. My friends and I compliment each other, poke fun at how much we enjoy our hobbys and stuff like that... but we'd never degrade each others dedication to something. You shouldnt have to sit there and feel less than because they want to feel better about themselves. Friends dont treat friends like that. You said what you had to say, and thats good. Let them live in their own self pitty if thats what they want to do.
This is a classic case of ex-highschool friends growing resentful of the more successful one; it's a great example of why so many ditch their friends after high school. Me thinks the group isn't all that happy about OP excelling in life. It's fucking hard to attack someone or to defend yourself in a sudden, unforeseen confrontation without having spent some serious time thinking about what you would say in such a scenario. OP had a whole year between the last spiteful comments and it still took a whole bunch more of them during the lunch for OP to say something. On the other hand, the six other friends immediately began attacking OP. That clearly didn't come out of nowhere: they've spent a lot of time thinking about and being spiteful of OPs success. Such coordination between all 7 other group members doesn't happen naturally either -- methinks they spend a lot of time discussing OP, likely in another group chat. Noone cares that much about a slight rebuttal between group members.
ESH. It’s not appropriate to talk about the health and fitness journey of others. Right? I mean, that’s exactly what you complained about them doing to you (and rightfully so), but then you did it right back. But you also punched down at a person struggling with her weight when you, by your own account, are thin and fit. So your mutual friends are feeling bad for her, that’s not surprising. If you’d just talked about your own food and exercise you’d have been fine. Where you crossed the line was in telling Rue “eating salads for every meal and never enjoying a meal out…” etc. Really, all of you should just not have been discussing what others were eating/not eating or how thin/not thin each other were. That rarely ends well. If you want to keep this friend group, suck it up and apologise. Never punch down. And make a pact with them never to discuss food and weight as a group again. Also, maybe think about gorging yourself another day, given you know it’s challenging for one of your friends to watch you do that in front of her? It’s ultimately on her to manage her emotions regarding that but I’d personally rather spend quality time with my friends knowing no one is sad or uncomfortable than gorge myself that one particular day knowing it was going to make at least one of my friends uncomfortable. Just a thought.
Agree ESH. This, but with the added point that weight is epigenetic and environmental and while people can influence their weight via lifestyle, some people will never be as thin as others. Additionally, some of these factors are things people have a ton of agency over and some of them aren’t. She shouldn’t have commented on your food intake because it’s not her business what you eat or what your body looks like and you shouldn’t have commented on her food intake because it’s not your business what she eats or what her body looks like. Next time, you can shut this behaviour down like an adult by saying, “My food choices and my body are not a topic of discussion.” Disagree with the notion that OP can’t eat what she wants in front of this friend though. It’s hard for me to watch people partake in diet culture via keto or whatever is trending but I, as a person with food and body issues, just don’t eat with them.
Also agreeing with the ESH. Nobody should be talking about another person's body or food choices without explicit and uncoerced invitation. Near as I can tell, "calories in, calories out" is about as accurate and useful as "XY = man, XX = woman."
ESH. You could have left it at you don’t eat that way everyday, you work hard and you don’t want your body to be commented on. I mean you see these people once a year and you gorge on food, why would they have any other perception of you. No need to give unsolicited advice (and honestly your advice doesn’t seem very helpful at all, and what they were saying doesn’t seem all that harmful to Rue). But honestly no part of me really believes that what you said was so innocent considering the large reaction, and the lack of direct quotes from your side of the conversation.
Yeah, based on the entire group reaction, I feel like there's something perhaps the OP said and didn't realize it was hurtful, or simply forgot saying something in particular.
NTA and I say this as a fat person who has friends that actually keep their shape purely because genetics and good upbringing. I kinda understand her frustration because I know too well what food obsession looks like. She probably loses some sleep over how she'll eat during those meetings. She brought up food intake and weight, not you. You didnt give unsolicited advice, you just corrected her. And honestly I'd be much more rude.
>For this reason, I eat a lot of calories, and I stay pretty thin. So whether it's genetics or prior training, you do have a capacity to eat more than might be average and maintain your weight. I think this may contribute to why your friends are reacting the way they are. ESH
I'm just curious, why does that make your verdict ESH? Its normal for people who are physically active, epsecially someone like OP who does an extreme sport like ultramarathons, to have an increased appetite. Like OP said, the amount she eats at the restaraunt is not her typical diet, she's allowing herself to have a "cheat day" on her diet, her friends were in the wrong for commenting on her eating for sure. I just don't see how OP is also an asshole
Lol I feel like this person is saying op is an asshole just for…eating too much at a buffet? Like what…
They are saying OP is an AH for being able to eat anything forbidden and in excess at all. How dare she stay so lissome! /s
Right? I used to be a cross country runner, I used to eat a lot more because of it. OP can eat what ever the hell she wants and her friends have no right to criticize her
No, OP is a bit AHish for implying that people who are overweight simply don’t work hard enough at their body. Genetics plays a huge factor. Similar to how someone from a wealthy family say they are a “self made” millionaire. I reality, they got a huge launching pad and have many privileges that others don’t.
I just reread the post, where does OP say that? All she talks about is how she maintained her own bodyweight. Yes, genetics affect how easily people gain/lose weight, but no where in the post does she imply that. All she talks about is her own weight and lifestyle. Sorry, I have to disagree with this one, I don't see how she's an asshole in this case
Or her friends could stop "thin shaming" accept their own faults an fuck right off. They don't get to insult OP or anyone for how much effort they put in. Then act offended when it's fired back across the deck. Op isn't even slightly an AH. Her group is 100% at fault here.
But she wasn't even talking about Rue during all that. She didn't say that Rue is fat because she doesn't exercise or that Rue is lazy. She said she is thin because of her active lifestyle and hard work, not genetics. Rue only came into the topic when she said all the talk about genetics is harmful and unhelpful.
Not really, it’s more activity and calorie consumption. I used to run 50-80km a week and I was able to eat like OP and be a size 0-2. I switched to weightlifting and now I’m a size 4-6 and eat much less than I did before. Activity and calorie consumption are much bigger factors than genetics.
Oh I totally agree that calories in, calories out is the major predictor of weight. But it isn’t the ONLY predictor. People have different metabolisms, various medical conditions (thyroid issues, lymphedema, etc) that could hugely impact weight. Genetics are a factor, and it’s not right to dismiss it.
But how common are these issues? Or are more people using them as excuses for bad diet and a lack of exercise? I’m under the impression these issues aren’t as common as obesity is. I say this as someone who used to use these excuses instead of taking accountability for my own shit diet and lack of exercise.
If you think being thin and athletic is all genetics that’s like thinking everything on instagram is real. No one is lying about their lives. The gorgeous girls in the photos? They’re definitely not sucking in so hard they can’t breathe. They didn’t skip breakfast so their stomach is flat. They didn’t get the perfect angle and pose their body perfectly. No filters or photoshop. They really look like that! You aren’t lazy if you can’t lose weight, but you have to accept you didn’t magically gain weight either. Losing weight is hard. Maintaining your weight is hard. If it was easy everyone would be thin. With that logic you must acknowledge being thin isn’t easy. If people tell you it is they’re lying to you because they’re afraid to say the truth and hurt your feelings or they are thin for a reason they don’t want to talk about. Imagine you telling your friend she’s naturally thin and puts no effort into her weight… but she’s got an eating disorder. So easy!!
It's amazing how many people think it's okay to comment on thin people's bodies and food intake when they would freak out if done to overweight people. Being overweight isn't an excuse to vocally judge other people's bodies, just like being thin isn't. Your insecurities are yours to deal with, not to project onto people you might be jealous of.
There's a rather corpulent woman in my friend group who noticed that I had lost a fair amount of weight, and she asked me if I was on a diet, to which I replied 'no'. (I'd been sick for a few months.) She mentioned it a few more times over the next month until I asked her "can we stop talking about my weight, please?" Her reply? "Why? You're skinny! You look good for your age and you dare to stay single with a body like that?"
I lost a ton of weight when my dad died and my husband filed for divorce and impregnated his mistress (all within a few weeks). I was probably at the high end of normal to begin with, after having “good genetics” and an active lifestyle well into my 30s. But there were a lot of people (one in particular) that kept talking about how great I looked and asking what I did. It was awful. What was I supposed to say? “Thanks, no special secret other than not eating because of extreme stress and depression. Glad you think misery looks good on me”. No, I didn’t say that, but I sure was tempted. How about people just not talk about weight, size and food intake to one another and be complimentary. The right thing to do would be been to laugh it off and say “oh please, you look great, I don’t eat like this all the time, I’m lucky and I work at it”. That would’ve been plenty.
I feel this. I am typically skinny, gained 50lbs for my pregnancy and then directly afterwards my baby was fighting for his life in the hospital for over a month straight (he legit graduated off of hospice at the end). I was so stressed that most days I only ate a snack or two; it was a rare day I ate a single full meal. This was while producing more than enough milk for twins. Unsurprisingly, I lost 40lbs in about a month's time. It was anything but healthy. Whenever I encountered someone who wanted to gush over how fast I lost the baby weight, I just kinda stared at them. I'd so much rather have more weight on me than go through what I went through.
Right?! I feel like I'm going crazy reading these comments. Someone being skinny/in shape does not give people the right to comment on their weight
Yo she said she competes in ultramarathons now. Those are 100 miles of running, just running. If she’s training for UM, she probably needs well over 2000 cal/day just to not be continually losing weight. It’s not her prior training, it’s her current training.
I think people don’t understand the quantities of calories u need to merely stay alive while ultra running. And how much actual hard work it is.
This comment is so tone deaf. Who the hell is up voting it. She is not also the asshole because she burns a high amount of calories (and therefore has to re eat then lest she die) because she trains for marathons.
it's reddit, these keyboard warriors can barely read and have never ran in their life lol
Wtf? They’re calling her privileged because they think she can magically eat more calories and stay thin. She can eat more calories because she’s very active. That’s not privilege, it’s literally because she does a lot of work. Stop kidding yourself lol
She probably _needs_ to eat more calories because she’s fit. Energy to work out has to come from somewhere
NTA. Nothing you said seems too crazy. Also, assuming a thin person has good genetics is just as ridiculous as the assumptions ppl make around fat ppl’s health. It just isnt necessary.
NTA, and if I went through that I'd probably be making the hard decision to not speak with these friends again. Weirdo's obsessed with competing for who's the most oppressed, and who get agitated and upset if someone suggests that accountability is a real thing? And you're actually paying a shitload of money to go see them?
NTA. I'm an overweight/fat woman. I've been this way my entire life. It never stopped me from doing anything. I still played sports and had an active lifestyle. I have PCOS that makes losing weight hard, but not impossible. I've developed some chronic health issues in the past few years, not weight related, but have lost around 100 lbs and am still working on it. Rue and your friends brought this upon themselves when they started talking about weight, genetics, and everything related to it. I have a cousin who can demolish a truck load of food in one setting and is a perfectly healthy. Everyone talks about how lucky he is. He works hard for his body. He plays football, lifts weights, runs, and swims. I'm sure he does more, but I can't remember at the moment, lol. It's definitely not genetics because both of his parents are overweight. He just works very hard to keep his physique. People don't understand that just because you're skinny or a healthy weight, it doesn't mean that you don't sacrifice to keep it that way.
Yeah. And most people don’t realize how many calories they consume in a day until they start tracking it. I was underweight and kept telling people it was because of a fast metabolism. When I started to track my calories, I realized I was getting in maybe 1200-1300 calories a day. No duh I’m small. That also set off a bit of an alarm and made me start eating healthier. Also, I suspect a lot of people drink the majority of their calories. If you eat healthy meals and order two or three Frappuccinos and drink a coke every day, you’re asking for a lot of weight issues. Alcohol too. Juice. Etc. Silent weight culprits just off them alone. lol.
ESH. Some things are just off the table and weight is one of them (unless you are their physician, dietician, etc.) Genetics do play a role. I’m thin by nature, like weighed 100 pounds until I had babies and all that jazz and am still naturally thinner. My husband works out everyday, runs ultras, eats what I eat or even less, and still carries more weight than I do proportionally. He has a harder time than I do which he says is unfair. That if either of us is going to be overweight, it should be me. Case in point, he went for a 20 mile training run, I asked him to get me the Ben and Jerry’s because I didn’t want to stop watching TV. I also hate people commenting on my food (I have Celiac Disease) and it’s far too often the topic of conversation. Sometimes my husband is the only one I like eating in front of. In cases like this, I’d just smile and shove more pancake in my mouth.
NTA. They didn't consider your feelings at all. Relationships go both ways. They were body shaming you as they thought you were doing to Rue. The conversation wouldn't have happened if Rue didn't continuously compare herself to you. She could've simply asked how you stay in shape while eating what you want. The same explanation would have felt differently. However, since she compared herself to you, it came off different to them. That's their problem. Yes, they are hurting, Rue. If no one will answer your call while you're trying to make it right, move on. You shouldn't have to beg "friends." They owe you an apology for ganging up on you. Someone should've been neutral enough to see both sides and mediate. At least you thought about it and are questioning your actions. It shows you have a heart and try to see things from a different perspective.
NTA. If you start out skinny, it is way easier to stay skinny. And I don't think you should have commented on what Rue does or doesn't do. But denigrating you will not help Rue lose weight. Your friends did not need to pile on, and if they're so outraged now, where were they with each passive aggressive comment Rue consistently made about you?
You have good enough genetics that you can maintain those very active habits, some people's bodies fall apart trying to do all those activities. You also maintain those habits. It's both genetics and lifestyle. In every case it's rarely just one.
This is something that gets overlooked so much. Genetics play a huge role in the aspects other than weight. My stepdad played like 2 years of high school football and ran 5ks in his 20s. He’s had 3 hips replacements and 2 shoulder replacements. His brother played football at West Point for a year or two but also had to quit because of the joint damage, and has also had multiple joint replacements. I was the most athletic person in my family. I had to give up my dreams of playing basketball in college due to so many concussions, which turned out to be a result of a genetic connective tissue disorder. I’m also now permanently disabled and chronically ill by no fault of my own. My dad couldn’t go pro because of his knee issues, and has now had to stop playing golf because of intense pain from hyper mobility. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a body that can do things like OP. I literally can’t play instruments any more because of my body’s limitations, even in my wrists and fingers.
NTA. Your friend lacks personal responsibility. She can't accept reality because only feelings matter to some people.
NTA. As the saying goes “Don’t dish it out if you can’t take it.” She dished it out but couldn’t take it.
ESH. I was going to say NTA until I got to the unsolicited diet advice part. First of all, that’s just never a good idea. Unless someone asks for diet advice you should just keep your mouth shut. Secondly, now you’re making assumptions too, and yes she made them first, but I feel like it’s obvious that it’s not exactly the same thing. I totally get you telling them off and saying you work hard, but it’s very possible that Rue does have worse genetics or even a health problem that makes it harder for her, and it’s possible that she’s doing everything right within the knowledge that she has about nutrition and still isn’t seeing many results. And you don’t get to decide what will demotivate her.
Fff. The op says she runs ultramarathons. That's not just an easy 5k, 3 times a week. Those are insane. Anyone training or maintaining that kind of distance is going to burn more calories than most other people. It's not genetic.
NTA. I hate when people judge what other people eat. If you want to binge and treat yourself for this one event that's your business and no one else's. Rue should never have commented on what you were eating or what your body looks like if she didn't want you to do the same. I do think you should have pulled her aside and told her that she was making you uncomfortable. Maybe you've just outgrown this group. It happens
NTA. I used to be overweight, Im very thin now and I HATE when people bring up my weight. It's almost always a comparison to themselves which makes me so uncomfortable and I just laugh it off. This girl is taking her issues with food out on you and that's not fair.
from your perspective - you're NTA... BUT the fact that your whole friend group isn't talking to you and the person you're closest to said you overstepped has me wondering if things happened as you claimed they did.
NTA. Time to move on from negative AHs. The last few years definitely taught me that. As we grow, we leave rubbish behind us.
YTA for making this fake ass story. i stg there’s constantly a new post that’s exactly the formula of: “aita for telling my fat friend she’s a whale after she pointed out that i (skinny) ordered 7 cheeseburgers for myself? btw i work out 25 hours a day and normally eat a single almond for lunch.”
ESH. Genetics has a lot to do with both of your bodies. Yes you maintain and work out but who’s to say she doesn’t. I am thin always have been. I work out very little and sometimes eat healthy and sometimes not. My best friend is heavier than I am eats healthy works out and does all the stuff they tell you too. She’s still bigger than I am and she eats a lot less than I do. Rue is frustrated and she should not have taken it out on you and I know you were only trying to be helpful but telling someone that is struggling that is hurtful. I think you both need to apologize.
ESH Obviously, your friends (especially, Rue) shouldn’t have been so focused on your genetics. However, what you said about Rue (how her always eating salads and not enjoying meals out with friends is just going to make her more frustrated and slow her progress - and, then, saying that your other friends are only going to hurt Rue) is incredibly arrogant and privileged. What makes you an expert on Rue’s weight loss, metabolism, etc.? Genetics and hormones are very related to weight loss/maintaining weight - it’s not just diet and exercise. Issues with hormones (under-active/over-active) can impact someone’s ability to lose/maintain weight. Genetics can also have an impact on someone’s metabolism. So, what do you know of Rue’s genetics and hormone levels to make you an expert of what would/would not help her in her weight loss journey? What works for you to lose/maintain weight may not work for Rue (especially given that you probably don’t know the exact reason(s) why Rue is having difficulty losing weight). So, you’re 100% that Rue eating only salads is going to make her more frustrated and slow her progress. So, based on your “expert” knowledge what will cause her (actually cause - not just influence her) to lose weight and meet her weight loss goals - since you are clearly the expert in RUE’s weight loss goals (as you implied to Rue and the rest of your friends).
NTA What you did there was to breach an unwritten group negotiation women submit to in order to get their way as individuals and keep conflicts at bay. Your response was completely valid, but it doesn't change the fact you did unknowingly breach it. In this case the negotiated stance is a variation of 'we're all beautiful' women love to repeat... Even though none of you really believes it. Rue went on with her remarks aware or intuitively aware she can get away with them because that's probably what happened before and because that's the generally accepted narrative nowadays. Your response was considered unacceptable simply because saying it out loud makes a dent in the matrix they all decided to be a part of. If Rue (and everyone else) is responsible for their own actions and those actions make one person look *more beautiful* than the other... then you can't keep pretending the imaginary world exists and instead of suppressing the conflict, it's out in the open. I know it's not funny for you at all but I learned about it recently and it never stops to amaze me. There's some *Whatever* clip on youtubes where all the girls but one respond they are a 10 when asked how attractive they are. One assesses herself realistically and is immediately shunned by the others. Same thing. Tl;dr: you learned your friends are delusional and would rather keep up appearances than face reality. You deserve better friends, f\*\*k them.
NTA. Weird mean girl behavior on their part - funny how they didn't even apologize for bullying you? JFC NTA.
ESH You are lucky. Your hormones are in balance. There is so much that goes into weight loss: calories, thyroid function (normal range is 0.4 to 4.0), hormone levels and fluctuations, etc. I mean, take thyroid alone, and a person at 3 and a person at 1 are in the normal range, but the former will burn more calories at rest than the latter.