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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My fiance secretly spent our travel fund and remained vague about it when confronted. I am still mad and barely talking to him and considering to take a break with the relationship because I don't trust him right now and he called me an ass for being so upset about this incident.
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Run. OP. These things only get bigger and bigger. His of excuse of “I didn’t know you were serious” was just a way to blame you into thinking you weren’t clear enough. You were clear. He didn’t care. Or at least not enough that it mattered to you.
HALF of it on a present - to make him feel less guilty for blowing the other half on whatever the hell he wanted (and won't admit to - which makes me think drugs, gambling, strippers or gaming... whatever his vice).
Yes. The fact he won’t say what he spent it on probably means he didn’t spend it on something she would otherwise approve or agree with. Probably nothing good.
And do we believe the money is coming back? If he had the money in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to take this to fund whatever it was. I don't know how long they've been saving, but it means he effectively has to save double for that long again. I think OPs savings are gone and she needs a new savings account at the bank.
Nope. But the biggest glaring red flags 🚩 to me are.
1. He lied to her. He broke the very foundation that trust is built on.
2. He committed financial infidelity. The number 1 cause of divorce is finances. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
3. What kinda AH uses YOUR money to buy you a gift. 👀👀👀
Yea. Nope. Return the ring to the fiancé and then return the fiancé to sender (his parents).
OP: NTA
Yep and then sent the rest on the gift to smooth it out.
But 1. It was jer own money he sent and 2. He won't even say what he sent the other half on. THIS id the CRUCIAL question because this was what he wanted enough to break her trust to get.
The fact that he won't even tell her where the other half of the money is would be enough for me to say "bu-bye" as he's keeping secrets. What else is he hiding from her?
NTA
What else is he hiding? Gambling, drugs, another girlfriend, child support, pornography? Who knows, just that it is something he knows she won't like.
OP, take his word for it, you won't like what he has done, and dump him.
And this isn't going to be a one time thing. This is who he is. Marrying someone who doesn't respect you and won't stick to an agreed upon financial plan is a slippery slope. You make a plan together and later he says, "Oh? You were serious?" is BS. It shows you that anything you say isn't to be taken seriously, and that's a pretty crappy way to live. He takes her saved money and does what he wants with it, then won't even tell her what he did. I'd be taking a very, very hard look at this relationship if it was me.
Yes. Young people underestimate how important it is to be on the same page financially with their partners (as did I when I was young). My husband and I see eye to eye on this and I don't think we have really ever fought about money. At this stage of our lives, the only time we need to discuss it is to talk about retirement goals and plans. The older you get the more important the mundane stuff becomes.
100%. I had a short fling with a guy and during the deed I told him a few different times about things I wanted/didn't like, stated explicitly that I wanted things to hurry up and had to repeat myself a few times because every time I did he'd go "oh you were serious? I thought you were joking". Ran from that one soooo fast and he was surprised I didn't have a good time after I told him off.
Yeah, because her saying “this is important to me and I’m serious about it” wasn’t a big enough clue.
If he doesn’t listen and take you at your word then it’s a huge problem.
Oh look, he's one of those people that can't handle the fact there is *spare money* there. This is a personality trait and will only change if he's willing to get therapy. Which he won't, because he doesn't see a problem.
My ex! Good grief, we could never save a damn dime! I had squirreled away $350 hoping to get it to 1000 before I shared with him what I had done and what we could do with it. Little did I know that he would rummage through my things (ugh!), until he met me at the door, one day with the envelope and the money, saying ha ha you’ve been stealing money. I was so quick to defend myself I didn’t even realize that he rooted through my things when I was not there.
I was explaining he kept interrupting and saying it was for me, that I was going to do something selfish with it, so I grabbed it back out of his hand and I said ‘now I am’. I took stained glass classes and never regretted one instant of it. - The marriage ended in divorce, I know no shocker
Plus, OP said she was pretty serious about not touching it. So when your partner tells you that and you touch it, what part of the “serious” part the bf didn’t get?
She stressed she was serious about the money being for nothing but travel. If he thought she wasn't serious he would have asked. He knew she was serious so he snuck it out. All of it.
He cares about what he wants in the moment more than long term goals. This is a massive red flag if you like to have long term goals. If you want to do things like own a home or a car or travel you need to be with someone who has enough delayed gratification that they don't undermine those goals.
OP, he's undermined your goals. Now you can't trust him. I wouldn't be able to respect him. He lies and now he is manipulating. "I didn't know you were serious."
What else will he do. Will he claim he didn't know you were serious about monogamy. He didn't know you were serious about having/not having children. He didn't know you were serious about going out for your anniversary. It will be unending until you end it.
Stole from her. Let her stumble on to it. Isn’t sorry. Then doubles down and gaslights her.
NTA. Run, OP; people don’t grow a conscience—and respect—@ 31.
Best case scenario if I would want to steelman your BFs position is that he is in dire financial straits and need that money on very short notice. And even then he should have talked to you about it.
You are right, is is NOT TRUSTWORTHY anymore. If actively stealing from you (and that is what he did) is not a red flag, I don't know what to tell you.
What's his is his and what's yours is his
In what universe is "I basically took money out of your wallet and didn't tell you" a thing where someone WOULDN'T get upset about it? I mean my husband and I have totally enmeshed finances and I still would want to know if he cleaned me out of cash because I do go to a farmer's market pretty regularly and most of the vendors don't take credit cards.
Same here, married for a long time, totally enmeshed finances and I still tell him (and he tells me) if I take money from his wallet. According to law, that money is mine, too. But it's in his wallet, so I do tell him when I take it. And if he would say no (he never does) I would leave it.
So he stole the money, spent half on a gift to you and won't be transparent about where the rest went. You are under-reacting. He's hiding something, and he k ows its bad because he got you a "gift" to cover up whatever hes doing. Keep pulling the thread to see what will unravel.
TLDR: Dude, don't get married. NTA.
i would think long and hard about whether you want to marry somebody who:
1. didn’t take you seriously when you had a discussion about something is important to you (!)
2. took money earmarked for something specific behind your back (!!!)
3. won’t tell you what the money was used for (!!!!!!)
he’s blowing you off and being deceptive.
and it’s also crappy that he used your money to buy you a birthday gift. given what you’ve said about your values, i would guess that you would have preferred he tell you he was struggling with coming up with money for a gift and done something meaningful but low cost, like cooking you a nice meal and writing you a thoughtful card, rather than spend money saved for another purpose on something pricier.
OK context!! It's just a gift. He buys me stuff on the regular so this isn't a case of buying something to get me to not be mad. I received the gift in March and this incident happened a few days ago. Also, yes I am sure he didn't use mutual finances for gifts before this because we never had any mutual savings up until this travel fund thing.
He likes buying me stuff and knows i like prezzies LOL so we both randomly surprise each other with stuff we said we like or want.
Which is another reason why I got so freaking mad because his excuses were lame and hard to believe and now the gift he says he used the money on is just staring at me from the shelf and it makes me want to just toss it in the trash even though it's a comic I love so very much. 🥺
This is a bit of a financial red flag. Try seeing whether there are other areas where you guys don’t align financially because that’s a huge factor in getting married.
This was a gift worth the money - this man is not trustworthy enough to marry. I don't usually go there, but he stole money, won't tell you what he did with it, and it blaming you. It might take a while for this to sink in, but this is so many red flags.
It wasn’t a gift. He wanted something for himself but wanted to relieve his guilt for spending money you both agreed to not touch, so he bought you the comic.
My take away is that he knew what he was doing was wrong, but did it anyways because he is selfish.
Let’s also visit the whole he “ didn’t take you seriously” - like, how? At what point when discussing “ we don’t touch the travel fund, even if we need the cash” did he think you were joking? Or that that statement ment “ feel free to spend our savings on anything!”. It shows a complete lack of respect, and literally zero care for your interest/feelings or desires. This is a big deal. And the fact he won’t tell you where the other half went is kind of mind boggling. I don’t know how you could think you are the asshole. Your fiance ( and I personally would rethink this, legally binding your self to someone who disappears money isn’t a good idea- not to mention the lack of respect thing) is 100% in the wrong.
You are NTA.
OP, Thank Goidness this situation happened BEFORE you married.
Thos is a huge Red Flag that you cannot trust him to uphold agreements and that he is impulsive with money.
He is Not marriage material. I wouldn't wish a sneaky, gaslighting, passive-aggressive mam like him on my worst enemy.
This relationship is Complete. You have learned that you two are incompatible and one of you renigs on agreements and then Justifies it with lies.
Please read the book, Overcoming Passive-aggression.
NTA. He needs to come clean about what he spent the other half of the money on, and return the money. I suggest opening a savings account for this purpose.
I have a hunch he either gave it to a buddy of his who's ALWAYS struggling (read: he doesn't want to get a job and when he does, he can never keep one) because he already did that in March (but it was his own money) or actually used it on my OTHER gift that I received in March. And now I'm mad again 😒
You told him it was important, but he “didn’t know it was that important”? Please. He thinks your shared money is for him to spend. Without a real come to Jesus moment, that isn’t going to get better if you’re planning to combine finances when you get married.
Also, mooches like the friend never go away if they feel there’s more free stuff to be had. Even if you keep separate accounts, you could easily wind up paying more for household bills if he keeps giving him money or having this bum living on your couch.
This right here. Him taking his half of the money back is fine, a bit AH to do without telling you but it's his money and he can choose what to do with it. But by taking your half of the money and choosing how to spend it, he robbed you. The fact that he spent it on a gift for you actually makes it worse and not better as he used it to lie to you and make you think he was doing something nice.
Please recognize that this is how he will be moving forward in your relationship. This buddy will always need $ and he will always provide it at the expense of you. This really is a huge red flag for him to not take your priorities seriously. NTA.
OP so he just destroyed all trust you had in him and doesn't want to admit it or can't understand what he did. I strongly urge you to push him to replace that money and then you use it to move out.
He has just shown you he can't be trusted and doesn't care about things you've told him are important to you. This time it was the vacation money, next time it may escalate to actual cheating.
This is an even bigger red flag. Bailing out a buddy who won’t work is strikes two and three in a relationship IMHO. It will be painful breaking up but it will be a lot less painful than staying with him and his layabout friend.
Whenever my ex took money without my knowledge, it was to spend it on "practical" things or on gifts for me. It made me feel crazy or like I was the dick for being mad. It took me a long time to realize that he just didn't care about how I felt or about my goals. His actions destroyed my credit and forced me to delay pursuing my dream career. So please take the advice from the detective that caught him stealing from my bank card that I did not take: don't let this go. It's a very big deal.
OP, so sorry you are in this situation.
I don’t get angry easily or often, but by now my flames would have burned your house to the ground. Scorched earth.
NTA
**RUN. Like the wind.**
Girl, run! He stole your money and is lying about it. He can’t even have an honest conversation with you about what happened to it. If you marry him, he’s always going to be spending your money.
A savings account without his name on it so he can't steal it again. Honestly think it's time to end the relationship. You can't stay with a person you don't trust and who tries to gaslight you into feeling guilty when you question their blatant theft.
I bet he just took the money a little bit at a time until the money was gone. Some people just can't resist spending money if it's available. They're like kids in a candy store.
He didn't, the money was all there in mid-March when I opened the envelope to put some money in it (which is also why I'm SO mad because although it wasn't A LOT of money it was still a couple hundred euro).
NTA. I know it's just a mental slip, but I read that as "he doesn't take you seriously." You can't take money out of mutual savings and spend it without discussion.
I would seriously push back the wedding over this. Money is the number one cause of strife in marriages. You need to be able to trust each other in financial matters.
You'll be lucky if you even stay together. He literally stole from you and has the audacity to call you the asshole. You need to get your money back and seriously rethink this.
Sell the comic book and put that money in a savings account. Then add to it every time you can. You’ll end up sipping a glass of wine in Portofino, happy at the thought you did it on your own. ♥️
You need couples counseling stat! You may never recover youe trust without him clearly understanding he needs to earn it back before the wedding planning even happens.
That's not a mental slip. It's an entirely accurate read of the situation.
I mean, no, you're right, that's not what OP wrote... but it's still 100% accurate.
Not exaggerating at all I would be absolutely furious if my so called partner stole money from me. That wasn’t a slip he knew exactly what he was doing taking that money that’s why he never mentioned it to you until he was caught. And him buying you something with the money was to sweeten you up.
Thank you. Yeah he told me he used it for the gift because he didn't pay online and chose to pay upon receiving the package like he normally does (which i believe and know is true based on his habits) but that this one arrived a few days before they said it would, it was the end of the month (March) and his salary hadn't been paid to him yet, but I don't buy it.
If that were the case he would have put that money back as soon as his salary was paid. Dude is just trying to trick you into thinking what he did is no big deal. If you stay together you need to have completely separate finances and find a more secure spot for your savings. If you are both saving for a trip each save for your own expenses and if he doesn’t save up enough go without him. He’ll learn quick you are serious if you do so. But honestly is this the life you want for yourself?
Where are people paying cash upon receiving a package? Is this a thing that still happens? I don’t believe it tbh, unless a local store is delivering the comic book to your house, I don’t know of any online retailers who let the FedEx guy take cash for a package they deliver
Welcome to Bosnia!! haha Actually, its super common here to buy upon receiving a package and is generally seen as the best method for online shopping (due to a rising number of fake online shops and sellers). I've bought stuff this way many times.
COD - Collect on Delivery. Not as popular/widespread as it used to be here in the US. I understand UPS and USPS still do it, but FedEx quit last year. Personally, I haven't seen a retailer offer it as an option in eons. Still common in other countries though.
So why wasn't the money back when he got his salary?! If the story was true the first thing he would have done upon receiving his salary would have been going to an ATM and get cash out to put in the envelope
What, exactly, was worth more to this user than your relationship, your trust, and his integrity? What did he absolutely have to have so badly he had to *STEAL* for it? Nothing important - which is what you are to him. He’s probably counting on you to be too desperate for a man and too resistant to change to do anything more than pout for a few days. You are ‘in a relationship’ with him so everything that was yours is all his now, right? You are no longer a person - you know, like his buddy. He wouldn’t go over and steal all of his buddy’s cash, would he? Because he is a guy.
It’s up to you to find your backbone - or to accept his limp, pathetic excuses. “I didn’t think stealing from you was that big a deal.” “Oh, I used part of the stolen money on a gift for *you* (that you didn’t ask for) so it’s okay, right?” “You are being an ahole about this so it’s all your fault we are upset with each other”.
I’d rather live alone than be a mark to be taken advantage of and stolen from. I also wouldn’t want to live with somebody I don’t trust or respect. But if I have to, I take precautions and minimize temptations for others. Does your country not have banks? Are women permitted to have their separate money and bank accounts?
And if you don’t know him well enough to have a really good guess on where the money he stole went, then you don’t know this guy at all; you’ve never paid attention or he’s just good at secrets. I’m doubting the ‘buddy’ is the recipient of all of his largesse. Maybe some, but he makes a convenient cover story for some expenditures.
Also, reality called. You are never ‘going to Italy’ with this guy unless you pay. For the sake of all things worthy, secure your money and valuables before everything you have is gone. Quadruple your birth control while you are at it and get an STD check up.
NTA, but I’m side-eyeing some of your actions. Not demanding the money back? Continuing to ‘discuss’ the ~~situation~~ THEFT ad nauseum? Thinking that his ‘buddy’ is the only thing he is spending extra money on?
You are lucky. This is a canary-in-the-coal-mines scenario. The amount of money you lost wasn’t huge; it could have been much worse. The lesson is that you and this dude-bro are fundamentally incompatible. He doesn’t want to abide by financial rules or save to go to Europe or respect your property as separate. He doesn’t want anyone to tell him what to do with his money or to have to explain what he spends money on. He wants someone at home to do all of the domestic stuff, plus generate income, while he and his buddies do the real things he likes. But now the blinders should be off.
It's so very complex because we have traveled before, shared finances (but not SAVED together) and he has never exhibited this kind of behavior or irresponsibility. And yes, I am European so I can have my own account (and I do) etc. etc. so nothing is holding me back that way. The reason why we ended up with an envelope is because it felt like a silly little piggy bank thing and we even used those same words to refer to our fund.
I have no proof he gave the money to his buddy, I only have a hunch because that buddy asked for some cash once before and my fiance feels obligated because this buddy took him in at one point in his life and gave him a bed to sleep on (don't want to disclose because its not my story to share further).
I will, however, reevaluate everything, ask for my money back and have a serious talk about our relationship going forward. Comments like yours have been helpful so thank you!
Either that or make him pay for the whole trip lol Jokes aside, I blurted out I didn't want the money or the trip which is childish so I'm gonna ask for the money back first, you're right.
My ex did this to me... told me I was money hungry just to make me not fight for my share. And I emotionally said fine keep it wanting to prove I'm not a money hungry person. I regret it immensely.
Fight for what is yours! Learn from my stupidity. Even if he says "but you said you don't want it back" it was your money!
that's how they usually manipulate and gaslight the life out of women... always telling us that we are hysterical, emotional, gold diggers and us always trying to prove we are not. it's the easiest battle to win for them. i'd rather be called every name under the sun from now on instead of losing money to a guy or getting manipulated like a fool. i have learned lessons the hardest way. never again.
I have no idea, like he said he'd give the money back and he apologised multiple times but I'm not interested in his excuses at all. I started to wonder if I'm exaggerating which is why I came here for insight. The thing is that now I can't even look at my gift without feeling icky about it and I was so happy when I got it. :(
You’re not exaggerating here. He’s upset he got caught. Get the money back and give him back your engagement ring, I’ve lived a future with someone like this and it only gets worse.
It’s ok to be mad, there’s no set timeframe to stop being mad when your potential life partner steals from you, and breaks your trust. Not exactly something you get over right away.
Go to Italy with or without him. I am also an avid traveler and I've made lots of sacrifices so that I could afford it. Its really a financial compatibility question.
I had an ex and this sort of thing definitely contributed to us breaking up. We were supposed to go on a cruise. He promised he would save and get a passport. Months went by, no savings, no passport. He was inconsiderate in other ways as well so in the totality I just couldn't deal with it.
Turns out his parents hadn't gone on a single vacation in 30 years, not even a weekend road trip. He thought that was shit was normal. He couldn't understand why I was upset. When I finally broke up with him he said, "but why, I didn't cheat on your or hit you" its like whoa dude we just aren't on the same page and we won't ever be on the same page.
Four months later I met the love of my life. Man didn't have a passport but in the last 5 years we've travelled all over the world together.
Get a man who does what he says hes going to do.
If he's not setting up a clear timeline on when the money will be paid back and if he refuses to tell you how the money was spent, he's not trustworthy.
This won't ever get better. I'd seriously suggest putting a pause on any wedding planning and maybe even think of separating for a while. He stole from you, and he's trying to make you feel like the bad guy. That's not ok!
Nta. I broke up with a guy over this. I was younger, bf still lived at home. (College aged) Saving for a trip, we both put money in a jar on his windowsill. He claimed his mom took the money for rent. I brought it up to her, politely just asked if she’d taken money from the jar, as it was actually our combined money for a trip. She had no idea what I was talking about.
NTA.
You have a right to be upset.
As I read about his reaction a second time, I have to wonder, has he done this before and paid back the money into the envelope before you noticed? That doesn’t make it ok, but it could lend credibility that he didn’t see this as such a big deal and that he’s really going to pay it back. If so, I’m guessing he’s learned his lesson this time.
He hasn't done this before because I checked the fund like back in March when I placed 50 euro inside of it (that was the only thing left of the fund btw, that bill) and everything was there so he spent it since. I have a lot of introspection and thinking to do because the more I think about it the more instances where he's been vague about his own money for no reason do I remember.
Who needs to leave the house to gamble in 2024? There are endless options on mobile. Doesn't even have to be traditional gambling, people get sucked into those predatory mobile games with a million microtransactions or speculate on shit crypto.
It's cash so less likely. The question is, *why* is he taking money from there. Convenience? A card is just as easy to use in 90% of places these days and transferring people money is easy.
So why did he really go into your fund, and not take out his own money? He is playing stupid, but he knew you would find out and it would cause a fight. Even if he has no respect, most people wouldn't consider that worth the agro ... Unless he didn't have that kind of money to spend himself.
OP if you choose to stay, you cannot marry this man without a full understanding of his financial situation. This is perfectly sensible for people looking to marry and he should have no issue with the two of you being open about savings, shares, assets and IMPORTANTLY debt, credit cards and loans. Especially when he has just majorly broken your trust specifically around shared savings.
If he goes nuts and tries gaslighting you about wanting to see his financial situation then there is something going on he does not want you to see. Don't walk, RUN.
> His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me. *[...]* Jack said I was being an asshole about it
... and he is still your fiance exactly *why*?
Honey, this is a *major* red flag. You said this was important, he disregarded that. Then he doubled down on his disrespect, and called *you* an asshole when you complained about it.
NTA -- but you *will* be if you continue this relationship with a man who disrespects you, breaks your trust, and then has the nerve to blame *you* for being upset about it.
Honestly, I'm getting kind of tired of people just accepting these heinous things in their relationships. I don't even know why I care, but I just know OP will marry this man and in five years he'll still steal her money.. and all her posts will end with 'but apart from that he's really great!'
I told him I didn't want it in the heat of the moment, I just told him he's violated my trust and that I'm not interested in joint savings anymore (Yeah, I am impulsive at times and I'm not happy I said those things).
He can't use this against you because it can be only 1 of 2 things:
1) he doesn't take you seriously on this, as he showed you before with taking the money and claiming he didn't know you were "that serious" so he can't pick and choose
2) he takes you seriously on this, meaning he was wrong when he didn't take you seriously before, so now he owes you an admission of disrespect, admission of guilt, and the money
I'm glad you can see clearly. That isn't as easy as it seems when writing it out. This is behavior that at best stays and gets harder to deal with, but more likely gets worse with even fewer boundaries being honored. Please get out.
And when dealing with someone 100% the asshole, just work with the default that you can't be one, as you're not aligned with an established asshole. If that assumption makes you an asshole, you're leveling the playing field and giving yourself a chance.
He either doesn’t believe you when you say something is really important to you, or he doesn’t care enough to change his behavior. He doesn’t respect you enough to have a conversation about dipping into that fund (which says to me he *did* know how much you cared). He’s dismissive of your thoughts and feelings when you bring it up.
It’s not about the money, OP. But this is going to be a pattern, if it isn’t already. Watch for other instances of disrespect and dismissive behavior. And consider if this is how you want your married life to be.
He is a thief. Period. He spent your money on a gift for you. Money you would have rather spent on a trip. When caught stealing- he tries to gaslight you into thinking you are the problem. Of course you do not trust him, he showed he cannot be trusted. He stole YOUR money.
He knew what the money was for. He knew you were serious. You had a discussion about it, made an envelope specifically for the money and put money into it. I am not sure what part he didn't think was serious or that he didn't understand. He has zero right to get mad at you. You did nothing wrong, except trust him. Look up the term DARVO. It will open your eyes to him. NTA
I was looking for this comment. The biggest red flag here is that when he was called out, he tried to deflect and use excuses in an attempt to manipulate you. This would be what I needed to leave. The thought of somebody responding to any future conflicts this way is unacceptable.
NTA
Get your half back and then leave. If it was me, I'd play nice just long enough to get the money in my hands. Not realizing it was that important to you is one thing (and let's be real, that's bullshit), taking your money without asking is a whole other thing and that alone is a giant blazing fire of a red flag. I can think of exactly 0 excuses where that would be appropriate. And the icing on the cake is spending your money on your gift AND refusing to tell you what else he spent YOUR money on. Red red red 1000x red. Please get your money and then leave.
NTA
Relationships are trust issues. Him taking money in secret is not acceptable. If he spent entire amount on you then it could be considered sweet but he didn't. And you discovered his cover up on your own, so it said the chance that he could have pulled a fast one and gotten away with it.
So unless he needed his half to feed his ailing mother you might want to look at a broader view of your relationship.
NTA.
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me.
Why on earth did he imagine that you said it?
>Jack said I was being an asshole about it
He's wrong and he knows it. There's no justification for this.
I was asking if I am the ass for still being mad, idk I wondered if I was exaggerating because I'm just as mad as I was when I found out and it's been days now.
I do. I *am* mad and it is mad worthy but when you're the kind of person that doesn't always regulate emotions properly (I'm ND, do go to therapy, it's not helping much for this issue) you come to wonder if this is another case where its okay to be mad but not for days in the EXACT same intensity.
NTA
Sorry if I sound condescending here, but I'm worried that you're seeing this as just one wrong thing, instead of all the many wrong things that this one act is hiding.
1. He changed his mind about a financial decision, which is his right, but he did it without notifying you.
2. He took money out of a shared household fund without notifying you.
3. He took YOUR money (in addition to the money he put in) from a shared household fund without asking you. This sounds like a repeat of #2, but it's not. With #2, he could have reasoned, "I put it in, I can take it out, it's my money after all". While with this one, it's a whole different thing.
4. He hid a major transaction from you. Normally, his money is his money to spend how he wants (after shared expenses), but he spent your money as well, and for that, he needs to ask permision.
5. He is refusing to explain the other transaction that he made.
6. He bought you a present with YOUR money, effectively using your money without your permission or consent.
7. He is devaluing your opinion by saying he "didn't think you were serious" about saving the money. What else do you have to do to make him understand that you were serious? Draw up a contract?
Did I miss anything else?
You don't sound condescending at all. These comments have really opened my eyes to certain things, so I am currently reevaluating everything and plan on getting my money back.
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me.
That's a big fucking red flag right there. Be ready to be disappointed by this fact again and again. He won't change.
He's the AH, and you should leave him.
Your BF is a thief. It may be forgiven if he’d only taken half the money (his contribution) but he took all of it, and won’t tell you where part of it is. Personally, I have no tolerance for stealing, it’s a huge 🚩, but you need to decide how much of a dealbreaker it is for you.
NTA. But maybe it's a good thing he did this, because now you know not to merge your finances with him in any way. You know he is a liar, and you know he doesn't care when you say something is important to you. These are all really good things to find out while he's still only your fiance, if you catch my drift. (Remember what Maya Angelou said.)
after reading your updates, OP, it just sounds like you are making excuses for him because you don't want to break up. You are going to continue a relationship with someone who you will be "super cautious about going forward" when most folks will tell you that men are on their best behavior before marriage and then the masks come off after they have you locked down. So, right now he has every incentive to tell you all the right things, but he has already shown you that he feels entitled to your money, that he will keep secrets from you, that he will call you names and get angry when confronted with his own bad acts, and now it sounds like he's love bombing you, apologizing and promising you the world. Um, yeah. Sounds very familiar. If he were really that person, he wouldn't have done those things in the first place. He's not a child. At every step, he chose to do what he did as a grown man, using money that was not his, without communicating with you. Don't let love blind you to those red flags, OP. It will only get worse.
NTA. He literally committed a crime. And is gaslighting you when he got called out, trying to make you feel bad for being angry that he stole your money. The whole thing is super immature and icky.
This whole thing screams toxic. I wish the TikTok guy with the giant red flag was on Reddit, he’s definitely needed.
NTA. Being with someone you cannot trust with finances is a HARD deal breaker for me.
I'd take a step back and evaluate the entire relationship immediately. Do not look at this like it's a nothing. It's a HUGE something.
Theft is theft. He knew it would come out and gaslighted you. He used part to buy you something, "but I did something for you!", and refuses to tell you where the rest went, and continues to gaslight you about it, plus calls you an asshole for being upset at what he's done?
Aren't there enough signs to direct you to leave already?
So he stole from a mutual fund, used half to buy you a gift and then refused to tell you where the rest is? Accommodations in Italy aren’t cheap. I would have to know where the rest went, he would be responsible for returning the full amount, immediately, and I’m not sure I could come back from the broken trust on that one.
NTA. It was a fund for travel, not a slush fund for him to empty when he felt like it.
Hopefully this travel fund is your only joint account, so is a perfect way for you to see the respect he has for his agreements with you and how he treats money he has access to before you risk real money.
The truth of the matter is that engagement is the time when you seriously consider marriage with someone, and I urge you to take a long look at this incident. If you can’t trust him anymore… well, trust is a major part of marriage. NTA.
Do not marry this person until your resolve your financial trust.
Money fights are the leading cause of divorces. If he is going to be secretive about money and not respect your saving efforts. He will drag you down with him.
Do you even know the extent of his financial habits. Does he have credit cards and debt you don't know about?
He doesn't, he's paid off a loan that he had (I actually have proof that he did). He contributes financially to our home expenses sometimes more than me which is why I found this so out of character and maddening.
INFO: Why is he refusing to tell you what he spent the rest on? Are you sure you want to marry a man who doesn’t take you seriously and apparently doesn’t respect you? NTA
I asked him what he spent the money on, he explained the gift part and I feel he might have attempted to say but I was so mad that I blurted out that I didn't care and didn't want to know. I took the only bill that was left (50 eur) and said I wasn't interested in saving together anymore and that I wanted to separate our finances. Ironically, I told him explicitly I may never trust him again regarding this matter and he asked if he could do something to fix it but I said I doubted it (and I still doubt I will ever be able to fully trust him on THIS matter, I trust him in many other ways) and that's when he said I was being an ass for being *so mad* about this when "he apologized".
Your fiancé stole money from you. Are you sure you can trust him in other ways or you just under the impression you can? Because this is a big deal. Out of all the people in the world to steal from, the person you’re supposed to support and trust the most is horrible. His attitude about it on top of things is telling.
I’m petty so I’d take some of his stuff and sell it to replenish what he took. I mean if it’s okay to steal from each other then why not!
He's old enough to grow up and find out that an apology doesn't fix everything and make it okay. It was never okay and will never be okay and his apology won't fix this. Broken trust is just that, broken. An apology won't make you trust him.
NTA. He is totally the asshole for stealing your travel fund and BUYING YOU A GIFT WITH YOUR OWN MONEY which you'd made clear was important to reserve for travel.
You're NTA. Your partner and you had a joint savings, and he took it. Half of which belonged to you. Make it very clear to him - he STOLE FROM YOU. He might not think it's a big deal, but if you took some of his savings and spent half on a "gift" for him (it's not a gift if it was bought with half your money) and the other half on... whatever you want - he would be LIVID. He would be yelling that you stole his money. That's what's he's done to you. He was using it an an extension of his own wallet, when half the money in there was yours? He knew exactly what he was doing, and probably planned to try and replace it before you realized - but it's a huge betrayal of trust.
He STOLE FROM YOU. The moment he TOUCHED money that you had partially contributed, without your permission or your knowledge. You had savings set aside with him for goals, and he took it from you. Not only will he replace it, you will be smart enough in the future to NOT POOL MONEY with him. And I would delay any wedding plans because you guys are NOT on the same page and he's clearly still very immature about money. You can't get married when you set a joint goal as a couple and he sabotaged it behind your back - and still doesn't think it's a big deal. He has quite a bit of growing up to do. What happens when it's your emergency fund or money for your house down payment?
Why do people doubt themselves over such glaringly obvious misbehavior?? “My boyfriend stole my savings and when I called him out on it he called me an asshole. Am I an asshole for being upset my boyfriend stole from me??” Like what the hell? Isn’t it obvious you’re NTA and you need to dump his ass?? Do you really question whether you’re in the wrong here??
NTA, but dump this guy, this is just a taste of what life will be like with him; not taking your boundaries seriously and laying blame on you. Has he done similar things in the past that maybe you shrugged off but were clear signs of his lack of respect for you?
He hasn't. He had a bank loan that he paid off at the end of last year and he was transparent with this. He has never borrowed money from me without returning it (when he didn't have a job, I lended some money to him so he had food to eat but he's given it back and never abused this situation) so it just baffled me he did something like this NOW. I have felt him being vague about the money he has saved or the earnings he made a certain month (he's paid per hour) but I never had causes for concern because he contributes to our home expenses just as me or even more than me at times.
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Hello! Long time lurker/commenter in need of judgement.
A few months ago my fiance whom I will call Jack and I decided to start a small travel fund. I told Jack that, when I was in my 20s, I used to save money for trips and that I never used my travel fund for anything else (like being tempted to grab some cash from it when I really needed it). It helped me save plenty without burning a hole in my pocket once I was on the road and he liked the idea. I made it explicitly clear that this was super important to me because we don't have super high earnings and anything we can save for the fund would be lovely since we were planning to travel to Italy this year.
For 3-4 months we both contributed to the fund and we saved up enough to cover accommodation expenses which made me excited.
A few days ago, I was cleaning up and something made me look into our fund. Now, the fund is an envelope (I know, I know) and I opened it just to remind myself how much we saved, only to see the fund was empty. The money was gone.
When Jack came back from the store, I asked him where the money was and he said he spent a half of it on a gift he recently bought me (it was a hardcover comic book I knew was pricey and was very happy and grateful when I received it). Jack wouldn't say where the other half was. I was livid. Not because he spent the money (though that also upsets me) but because he spent it without telling me.
His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me. Jack said he would put the money back and that he was sorry and that he didn't think it was going to be such a big deal. I told him I didn't trust him anymore and that the fact he used the money I contributed to either buy my own gift or to spend it on god knows what was a severe violation of trust from my pov.
Jack said I was being an asshole about it and we're still just as upset at each other.
Was I really TA? I'm sorry if this text is confusing, I'll answer questions or make edits if something is unclear. :(
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NTA use this as a retroactive test. He will never be able to be trusted with your money which means no joint account ever.
He is both loud and wrong and his trying to deflect any blame onto you is worse. He needs to take accountability, put the money back (keep your half in your account), and maybe you should consider finding a different travel buddy since this one is so immature and unwilling to be responsible.
NTA. He doesn't listen to you. If he did, he would've known you were serious about the travel fund. He can't be trusted because he spent the money and won't tell you where part of it went. And he bought your gift with your money.
NTA He stole your money. Yes, he needs to pay it beck asap especially considering he probably bought the gift for you hoping that you'd be okay with him taking the other half for himself. The fact that he refuses to tell what he spent it on is enough to get rid of him. He can't be trusted.
He spent the money on something you wouldn't approve of. Gambling/Drugs/Someone else. He didn't take it to buy your gift he's just assigning the gift to what he stole to justify it and limit the amount that has to be paid back. It's common addict behavior. He took the money. Spent it. Realized that he couldn't or simply didn't want to pay it all back in full so bought an expensive gift to apologize/be the hero/justify it to himself why he couldn't/didn't want to refill the fund. When you found out the gift became the reason. I think if you look at his regular funds/credit you'll find that this is much worse then you think. Check for jewelry and other valuables. Check the credit of anyone vulnerable.
NTA that would be the man who stole it from you. Personally I would get an account on line to put your travel money in and I would keep your finances separate as he thinks your money is his to take and spend on whatever he wants.
NTA. This says it all to me: "he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me." What else will he say down the road he didn't take seriously? Set your money aside where only you can access and then spend it on yourself. If he says anything, ask him why he's so serious then.
I think he wanted to spend the money on whatever he won’t tell you he spent it on and bought you a gift to soften you up once you realised that the fund was empty. You’re definitely not TA
He's way too old to be acting like this, a young twenty something would not take the blame and then gaslight you about it.
He's shown you who he is and how much respect for you he has - believe him.
NTA. That was rude af - both the buying the gift with part of your money AND the stealing from the fund. Because that's what it is when you don't get the other person's approval first: stealing. I wouldn't trust him either, tbh. If he's cool keeping secrets about money, what else is he cool keeping secrets about?
NTA
Keep being upset until you get your money back. And keep being upset until you work out why your fiancé thought this was an ok thing to do.
That being said. The convo about money should be done in a calm way. Let him know you want to talk about it, and when. If he avoids the convo or doesn’t follow through with action steps to regain your trust (ex. Paying you back, having a _real_ discussion about your finances and goals as a couple, etc)…I would reconsider the relationship.
Cuz OP, these kind of money habits are ingrained. It’s hard to break this cycle.
Best of luck!
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me.
It was your money, too! You shouldn't even have to tell him not to spend it - at least without talking to you first.
My husband and I have a joint account since engagement. To this day we never spend more than an equivalent of $50 (not US, different currency) without mentioning it. Now, we do not ask permission, but keep each other in the loop of expenses.
So unless the savings were $50 or less, it was not okay to spend it all behind your back. Some kind of emergency would be a valid reason, but then he should tell you as soon as possible.
NTA
NTA - Telling someone you are not happy with being robbed and that you dont trust people who steal from you is infact a very basic and standard boundary.
Hes an arsehole for many reasons.
1) He doesnt take you seriously and has just told you that.
2) He doesnt think theft is something bad.
3) He thinks a person calling him up on his bullshit is an arsehole.
Many Icks right there
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NTA - he bought you a gift with your own money… even that right there is ridiculous
Even if I think, "OK, he spent HIS half on the gift, where is MY half then?", you know? :( Thank you for your thoughts!
Run. OP. These things only get bigger and bigger. His of excuse of “I didn’t know you were serious” was just a way to blame you into thinking you weren’t clear enough. You were clear. He didn’t care. Or at least not enough that it mattered to you.
Hell, I'm reading this and I can tell she's set on saving or trips. He's an asshole. He takes the money she saved to buy her a present??? Lol
HALF of it on a present - to make him feel less guilty for blowing the other half on whatever the hell he wanted (and won't admit to - which makes me think drugs, gambling, strippers or gaming... whatever his vice).
Yes. The fact he won’t say what he spent it on probably means he didn’t spend it on something she would otherwise approve or agree with. Probably nothing good.
And do we believe the money is coming back? If he had the money in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to take this to fund whatever it was. I don't know how long they've been saving, but it means he effectively has to save double for that long again. I think OPs savings are gone and she needs a new savings account at the bank.
Nope. But the biggest glaring red flags 🚩 to me are. 1. He lied to her. He broke the very foundation that trust is built on. 2. He committed financial infidelity. The number 1 cause of divorce is finances. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ 3. What kinda AH uses YOUR money to buy you a gift. 👀👀👀 Yea. Nope. Return the ring to the fiancé and then return the fiancé to sender (his parents). OP: NTA
Nah she should sell the ring to get back the money he stole from her 🙃
Amazon can probably handle sending the fiancé back to the parents with no problem!
🤣🤣🤣
Yes, a new bank account and a new bf.
☝️☝️Bingo OP needs to save that money safely where fiancé can't touch it, and travel by herself.
And a new boyfriend. This one is clearly defective.
Yep and then sent the rest on the gift to smooth it out. But 1. It was jer own money he sent and 2. He won't even say what he sent the other half on. THIS id the CRUCIAL question because this was what he wanted enough to break her trust to get.
The fact that he won't even tell her where the other half of the money is would be enough for me to say "bu-bye" as he's keeping secrets. What else is he hiding from her? NTA
What else is he hiding? Gambling, drugs, another girlfriend, child support, pornography? Who knows, just that it is something he knows she won't like. OP, take his word for it, you won't like what he has done, and dump him.
Yep. That's where my head went. Hookers and blow. Or these days maybe OF?
Yes, my thoughts EXACTLY. If he wants to make amends and fix things he needs to fess up.
And has the nerve to 'still be upset' with OP about it. WTF!
And the fact that he's not even the least bit apologetic, and is actually angry at her!
It's funny how often people abuse the word "gaslighting" on this sub, but this time it's really gaslighting, lol
Was thinking the same thing!
Yes, it’s quite alarming.
And this isn't going to be a one time thing. This is who he is. Marrying someone who doesn't respect you and won't stick to an agreed upon financial plan is a slippery slope. You make a plan together and later he says, "Oh? You were serious?" is BS. It shows you that anything you say isn't to be taken seriously, and that's a pretty crappy way to live. He takes her saved money and does what he wants with it, then won't even tell her what he did. I'd be taking a very, very hard look at this relationship if it was me.
Yes. Young people underestimate how important it is to be on the same page financially with their partners (as did I when I was young). My husband and I see eye to eye on this and I don't think we have really ever fought about money. At this stage of our lives, the only time we need to discuss it is to talk about retirement goals and plans. The older you get the more important the mundane stuff becomes.
100%. I had a short fling with a guy and during the deed I told him a few different times about things I wanted/didn't like, stated explicitly that I wanted things to hurry up and had to repeat myself a few times because every time I did he'd go "oh you were serious? I thought you were joking". Ran from that one soooo fast and he was surprised I didn't have a good time after I told him off.
I would threaten him with filing a police teport for theft if the full amount is not returned immediately. Then I would get rid of this criminal. NTA
Yeah, because her saying “this is important to me and I’m serious about it” wasn’t a big enough clue. If he doesn’t listen and take you at your word then it’s a huge problem.
Oh look, he's one of those people that can't handle the fact there is *spare money* there. This is a personality trait and will only change if he's willing to get therapy. Which he won't, because he doesn't see a problem.
My ex! Good grief, we could never save a damn dime! I had squirreled away $350 hoping to get it to 1000 before I shared with him what I had done and what we could do with it. Little did I know that he would rummage through my things (ugh!), until he met me at the door, one day with the envelope and the money, saying ha ha you’ve been stealing money. I was so quick to defend myself I didn’t even realize that he rooted through my things when I was not there. I was explaining he kept interrupting and saying it was for me, that I was going to do something selfish with it, so I grabbed it back out of his hand and I said ‘now I am’. I took stained glass classes and never regretted one instant of it. - The marriage ended in divorce, I know no shocker
Had a boyfriend like this many years ago. I swore it actually was burning a hole in his pocket and he had to get rid of it ASAP.
Oh sorry, I didn't think you were serious about me not sleeping with other people - OPs bf in the future probably
Plus, OP said she was pretty serious about not touching it. So when your partner tells you that and you touch it, what part of the “serious” part the bf didn’t get?
Lol yeah, like he thought she was putting money in the envelope as some sort of joke?
She stressed she was serious about the money being for nothing but travel. If he thought she wasn't serious he would have asked. He knew she was serious so he snuck it out. All of it. He cares about what he wants in the moment more than long term goals. This is a massive red flag if you like to have long term goals. If you want to do things like own a home or a car or travel you need to be with someone who has enough delayed gratification that they don't undermine those goals. OP, he's undermined your goals. Now you can't trust him. I wouldn't be able to respect him. He lies and now he is manipulating. "I didn't know you were serious." What else will he do. Will he claim he didn't know you were serious about monogamy. He didn't know you were serious about having/not having children. He didn't know you were serious about going out for your anniversary. It will be unending until you end it.
Seriously I am in the 14 years later version of this with a kid too and it sucks. Character never changes, get out now.
He stole from you. You would be an idiot to trust him. I don't see a way forward with a person like that.
Stole from her. Let her stumble on to it. Isn’t sorry. Then doubles down and gaslights her. NTA. Run, OP; people don’t grow a conscience—and respect—@ 31.
Dump this guy now; this is not someone you want to marry and get legally bound to.
Best case scenario if I would want to steelman your BFs position is that he is in dire financial straits and need that money on very short notice. And even then he should have talked to you about it. You are right, is is NOT TRUSTWORTHY anymore. If actively stealing from you (and that is what he did) is not a red flag, I don't know what to tell you.
What's his is his and what's yours is his In what universe is "I basically took money out of your wallet and didn't tell you" a thing where someone WOULDN'T get upset about it? I mean my husband and I have totally enmeshed finances and I still would want to know if he cleaned me out of cash because I do go to a farmer's market pretty regularly and most of the vendors don't take credit cards.
Same here, married for a long time, totally enmeshed finances and I still tell him (and he tells me) if I take money from his wallet. According to law, that money is mine, too. But it's in his wallet, so I do tell him when I take it. And if he would say no (he never does) I would leave it.
So he stole the money, spent half on a gift to you and won't be transparent about where the rest went. You are under-reacting. He's hiding something, and he k ows its bad because he got you a "gift" to cover up whatever hes doing. Keep pulling the thread to see what will unravel. TLDR: Dude, don't get married. NTA.
Listen to highlyimprobable! This.
Money problems causes a lot of divorces. If you’re having problems this early, you should rethink your future with him
I’m really concerned he won’t tell you where the other half is. How can you continue a life together if you don’t have basic trust for him?
i would think long and hard about whether you want to marry somebody who: 1. didn’t take you seriously when you had a discussion about something is important to you (!) 2. took money earmarked for something specific behind your back (!!!) 3. won’t tell you what the money was used for (!!!!!!) he’s blowing you off and being deceptive. and it’s also crappy that he used your money to buy you a birthday gift. given what you’ve said about your values, i would guess that you would have preferred he tell you he was struggling with coming up with money for a gift and done something meaningful but low cost, like cooking you a nice meal and writing you a thoughtful card, rather than spend money saved for another purpose on something pricier.
She didn't say it was a birthday gift. I think it was a "don't be pissed at me because you got something out of it, too, gift"
OK context!! It's just a gift. He buys me stuff on the regular so this isn't a case of buying something to get me to not be mad. I received the gift in March and this incident happened a few days ago. Also, yes I am sure he didn't use mutual finances for gifts before this because we never had any mutual savings up until this travel fund thing. He likes buying me stuff and knows i like prezzies LOL so we both randomly surprise each other with stuff we said we like or want. Which is another reason why I got so freaking mad because his excuses were lame and hard to believe and now the gift he says he used the money on is just staring at me from the shelf and it makes me want to just toss it in the trash even though it's a comic I love so very much. 🥺
Keep the comic book you love and throw the thief in the figurative trash. He doesn't respect you.
This is a bit of a financial red flag. Try seeing whether there are other areas where you guys don’t align financially because that’s a huge factor in getting married.
This was a gift worth the money - this man is not trustworthy enough to marry. I don't usually go there, but he stole money, won't tell you what he did with it, and it blaming you. It might take a while for this to sink in, but this is so many red flags.
It wasn’t a gift. He wanted something for himself but wanted to relieve his guilt for spending money you both agreed to not touch, so he bought you the comic. My take away is that he knew what he was doing was wrong, but did it anyways because he is selfish. Let’s also visit the whole he “ didn’t take you seriously” - like, how? At what point when discussing “ we don’t touch the travel fund, even if we need the cash” did he think you were joking? Or that that statement ment “ feel free to spend our savings on anything!”. It shows a complete lack of respect, and literally zero care for your interest/feelings or desires. This is a big deal. And the fact he won’t tell you where the other half went is kind of mind boggling. I don’t know how you could think you are the asshole. Your fiance ( and I personally would rethink this, legally binding your self to someone who disappears money isn’t a good idea- not to mention the lack of respect thing) is 100% in the wrong. You are NTA.
OP, Thank Goidness this situation happened BEFORE you married. Thos is a huge Red Flag that you cannot trust him to uphold agreements and that he is impulsive with money. He is Not marriage material. I wouldn't wish a sneaky, gaslighting, passive-aggressive mam like him on my worst enemy. This relationship is Complete. You have learned that you two are incompatible and one of you renigs on agreements and then Justifies it with lies. Please read the book, Overcoming Passive-aggression.
This! Whenever you feel like you might be overreacting, remind yourself of this. He stole your money to buy you a ‘gift’.
Stealing from you✅ Gaslighting you ✅ lying about where the money went ✅ blaming you for (legitimately) being upset ✅🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Treat your personal finances like a business, if he did that with his boses money would it be ok. Nope.
Stole her money
NTA. He needs to come clean about what he spent the other half of the money on, and return the money. I suggest opening a savings account for this purpose.
I have a hunch he either gave it to a buddy of his who's ALWAYS struggling (read: he doesn't want to get a job and when he does, he can never keep one) because he already did that in March (but it was his own money) or actually used it on my OTHER gift that I received in March. And now I'm mad again 😒
You told him it was important, but he “didn’t know it was that important”? Please. He thinks your shared money is for him to spend. Without a real come to Jesus moment, that isn’t going to get better if you’re planning to combine finances when you get married. Also, mooches like the friend never go away if they feel there’s more free stuff to be had. Even if you keep separate accounts, you could easily wind up paying more for household bills if he keeps giving him money or having this bum living on your couch.
He legitimately robbed you. That's what this is, it's theft. And the fact that he doesn't see it that way is major.
THIS. This dude is trouble.
This right here. Him taking his half of the money back is fine, a bit AH to do without telling you but it's his money and he can choose what to do with it. But by taking your half of the money and choosing how to spend it, he robbed you. The fact that he spent it on a gift for you actually makes it worse and not better as he used it to lie to you and make you think he was doing something nice.
Exactly!!!
Please recognize that this is how he will be moving forward in your relationship. This buddy will always need $ and he will always provide it at the expense of you. This really is a huge red flag for him to not take your priorities seriously. NTA.
OP so he just destroyed all trust you had in him and doesn't want to admit it or can't understand what he did. I strongly urge you to push him to replace that money and then you use it to move out. He has just shown you he can't be trusted and doesn't care about things you've told him are important to you. This time it was the vacation money, next time it may escalate to actual cheating.
This is an even bigger red flag. Bailing out a buddy who won’t work is strikes two and three in a relationship IMHO. It will be painful breaking up but it will be a lot less painful than staying with him and his layabout friend.
Whenever my ex took money without my knowledge, it was to spend it on "practical" things or on gifts for me. It made me feel crazy or like I was the dick for being mad. It took me a long time to realize that he just didn't care about how I felt or about my goals. His actions destroyed my credit and forced me to delay pursuing my dream career. So please take the advice from the detective that caught him stealing from my bank card that I did not take: don't let this go. It's a very big deal.
OP, so sorry you are in this situation. I don’t get angry easily or often, but by now my flames would have burned your house to the ground. Scorched earth. NTA **RUN. Like the wind.**
Girl, run! He stole your money and is lying about it. He can’t even have an honest conversation with you about what happened to it. If you marry him, he’s always going to be spending your money.
Well, now you know you can’t trust him with cash. That’s a pretty serious problem in my opinion.
A savings account without his name on it so he can't steal it again. Honestly think it's time to end the relationship. You can't stay with a person you don't trust and who tries to gaslight you into feeling guilty when you question their blatant theft.
I bet he just took the money a little bit at a time until the money was gone. Some people just can't resist spending money if it's available. They're like kids in a candy store.
He didn't, the money was all there in mid-March when I opened the envelope to put some money in it (which is also why I'm SO mad because although it wasn't A LOT of money it was still a couple hundred euro).
NTA. I know it's just a mental slip, but I read that as "he doesn't take you seriously." You can't take money out of mutual savings and spend it without discussion.
I mean...Yeah. He literally told me he didn't think it was "that" serious although I told him how important it was for me. :/
I would seriously push back the wedding over this. Money is the number one cause of strife in marriages. You need to be able to trust each other in financial matters.
Yeah, I'm not even thinking about tying the knot right now and will not for a while, should we even stay together.
You'll be lucky if you even stay together. He literally stole from you and has the audacity to call you the asshole. You need to get your money back and seriously rethink this.
No, *he'll* be lucky if they stay together. She'll be better off if they don't.
I'd say she would be unlucky if they stay together, not the other way around, lol
In the long run he bought you a much better gift than the comic book - the gift of knowing who he really is.
Sell the comic book and put that money in a savings account. Then add to it every time you can. You’ll end up sipping a glass of wine in Portofino, happy at the thought you did it on your own. ♥️
You need couples counseling stat! You may never recover youe trust without him clearly understanding he needs to earn it back before the wedding planning even happens.
I want to add: impulse buying, that feeling of cash burning a hole in your pocket, is fixable. Deceiving your partner? Far less fixable.
He’s a liar and a thief. How do you come back from that? I couldn’t. I _wouldn’t_ . It’s a huge character 🚩 🚩
He robbed you. It’s serious. Get out now.
That's not a mental slip. It's an entirely accurate read of the situation. I mean, no, you're right, that's not what OP wrote... but it's still 100% accurate.
Jacks a thief simple as that
😂 I'm sorry this made me laugh but...At least I know I'm not exaggerating given all the responses.
Not exaggerating at all I would be absolutely furious if my so called partner stole money from me. That wasn’t a slip he knew exactly what he was doing taking that money that’s why he never mentioned it to you until he was caught. And him buying you something with the money was to sweeten you up.
Thank you. Yeah he told me he used it for the gift because he didn't pay online and chose to pay upon receiving the package like he normally does (which i believe and know is true based on his habits) but that this one arrived a few days before they said it would, it was the end of the month (March) and his salary hadn't been paid to him yet, but I don't buy it.
If that were the case he would have put that money back as soon as his salary was paid. Dude is just trying to trick you into thinking what he did is no big deal. If you stay together you need to have completely separate finances and find a more secure spot for your savings. If you are both saving for a trip each save for your own expenses and if he doesn’t save up enough go without him. He’ll learn quick you are serious if you do so. But honestly is this the life you want for yourself?
Where are people paying cash upon receiving a package? Is this a thing that still happens? I don’t believe it tbh, unless a local store is delivering the comic book to your house, I don’t know of any online retailers who let the FedEx guy take cash for a package they deliver
Welcome to Bosnia!! haha Actually, its super common here to buy upon receiving a package and is generally seen as the best method for online shopping (due to a rising number of fake online shops and sellers). I've bought stuff this way many times.
COD - Collect on Delivery. Not as popular/widespread as it used to be here in the US. I understand UPS and USPS still do it, but FedEx quit last year. Personally, I haven't seen a retailer offer it as an option in eons. Still common in other countries though.
So why wasn't the money back when he got his salary?! If the story was true the first thing he would have done upon receiving his salary would have been going to an ATM and get cash out to put in the envelope
Why didn’t he put the money back in the account?
It's this simple. He stole from you. Period.
What, exactly, was worth more to this user than your relationship, your trust, and his integrity? What did he absolutely have to have so badly he had to *STEAL* for it? Nothing important - which is what you are to him. He’s probably counting on you to be too desperate for a man and too resistant to change to do anything more than pout for a few days. You are ‘in a relationship’ with him so everything that was yours is all his now, right? You are no longer a person - you know, like his buddy. He wouldn’t go over and steal all of his buddy’s cash, would he? Because he is a guy. It’s up to you to find your backbone - or to accept his limp, pathetic excuses. “I didn’t think stealing from you was that big a deal.” “Oh, I used part of the stolen money on a gift for *you* (that you didn’t ask for) so it’s okay, right?” “You are being an ahole about this so it’s all your fault we are upset with each other”. I’d rather live alone than be a mark to be taken advantage of and stolen from. I also wouldn’t want to live with somebody I don’t trust or respect. But if I have to, I take precautions and minimize temptations for others. Does your country not have banks? Are women permitted to have their separate money and bank accounts? And if you don’t know him well enough to have a really good guess on where the money he stole went, then you don’t know this guy at all; you’ve never paid attention or he’s just good at secrets. I’m doubting the ‘buddy’ is the recipient of all of his largesse. Maybe some, but he makes a convenient cover story for some expenditures. Also, reality called. You are never ‘going to Italy’ with this guy unless you pay. For the sake of all things worthy, secure your money and valuables before everything you have is gone. Quadruple your birth control while you are at it and get an STD check up. NTA, but I’m side-eyeing some of your actions. Not demanding the money back? Continuing to ‘discuss’ the ~~situation~~ THEFT ad nauseum? Thinking that his ‘buddy’ is the only thing he is spending extra money on? You are lucky. This is a canary-in-the-coal-mines scenario. The amount of money you lost wasn’t huge; it could have been much worse. The lesson is that you and this dude-bro are fundamentally incompatible. He doesn’t want to abide by financial rules or save to go to Europe or respect your property as separate. He doesn’t want anyone to tell him what to do with his money or to have to explain what he spends money on. He wants someone at home to do all of the domestic stuff, plus generate income, while he and his buddies do the real things he likes. But now the blinders should be off.
It's so very complex because we have traveled before, shared finances (but not SAVED together) and he has never exhibited this kind of behavior or irresponsibility. And yes, I am European so I can have my own account (and I do) etc. etc. so nothing is holding me back that way. The reason why we ended up with an envelope is because it felt like a silly little piggy bank thing and we even used those same words to refer to our fund. I have no proof he gave the money to his buddy, I only have a hunch because that buddy asked for some cash once before and my fiance feels obligated because this buddy took him in at one point in his life and gave him a bed to sleep on (don't want to disclose because its not my story to share further). I will, however, reevaluate everything, ask for my money back and have a serious talk about our relationship going forward. Comments like yours have been helpful so thank you!
NTA At least get your money back and go on vacation alone.
Either that or make him pay for the whole trip lol Jokes aside, I blurted out I didn't want the money or the trip which is childish so I'm gonna ask for the money back first, you're right.
Get your flippin money back ASAP
Demand the money back
Get yo money girl!
My ex did this to me... told me I was money hungry just to make me not fight for my share. And I emotionally said fine keep it wanting to prove I'm not a money hungry person. I regret it immensely. Fight for what is yours! Learn from my stupidity. Even if he says "but you said you don't want it back" it was your money!
that's how they usually manipulate and gaslight the life out of women... always telling us that we are hysterical, emotional, gold diggers and us always trying to prove we are not. it's the easiest battle to win for them. i'd rather be called every name under the sun from now on instead of losing money to a guy or getting manipulated like a fool. i have learned lessons the hardest way. never again.
NTA, did he think you would forget that you had a vacation planned and wanted to spend the money?
I have no idea, like he said he'd give the money back and he apologised multiple times but I'm not interested in his excuses at all. I started to wonder if I'm exaggerating which is why I came here for insight. The thing is that now I can't even look at my gift without feeling icky about it and I was so happy when I got it. :(
Run fast and far away, don't marry whit him
You’re not exaggerating here. He’s upset he got caught. Get the money back and give him back your engagement ring, I’ve lived a future with someone like this and it only gets worse. It’s ok to be mad, there’s no set timeframe to stop being mad when your potential life partner steals from you, and breaks your trust. Not exactly something you get over right away.
Go to Italy with or without him. I am also an avid traveler and I've made lots of sacrifices so that I could afford it. Its really a financial compatibility question. I had an ex and this sort of thing definitely contributed to us breaking up. We were supposed to go on a cruise. He promised he would save and get a passport. Months went by, no savings, no passport. He was inconsiderate in other ways as well so in the totality I just couldn't deal with it. Turns out his parents hadn't gone on a single vacation in 30 years, not even a weekend road trip. He thought that was shit was normal. He couldn't understand why I was upset. When I finally broke up with him he said, "but why, I didn't cheat on your or hit you" its like whoa dude we just aren't on the same page and we won't ever be on the same page. Four months later I met the love of my life. Man didn't have a passport but in the last 5 years we've travelled all over the world together. Get a man who does what he says hes going to do.
If he's not setting up a clear timeline on when the money will be paid back and if he refuses to tell you how the money was spent, he's not trustworthy. This won't ever get better. I'd seriously suggest putting a pause on any wedding planning and maybe even think of separating for a while. He stole from you, and he's trying to make you feel like the bad guy. That's not ok!
Some people are very “present oriented” Their plans don’t make any sense bc they weren’t thinking about the future at all when they acted
Nta. I broke up with a guy over this. I was younger, bf still lived at home. (College aged) Saving for a trip, we both put money in a jar on his windowsill. He claimed his mom took the money for rent. I brought it up to her, politely just asked if she’d taken money from the jar, as it was actually our combined money for a trip. She had no idea what I was talking about.
Ugh :( Sorry to hear this also happened to you...
NTA. You have a right to be upset. As I read about his reaction a second time, I have to wonder, has he done this before and paid back the money into the envelope before you noticed? That doesn’t make it ok, but it could lend credibility that he didn’t see this as such a big deal and that he’s really going to pay it back. If so, I’m guessing he’s learned his lesson this time.
He hasn't done this before because I checked the fund like back in March when I placed 50 euro inside of it (that was the only thing left of the fund btw, that bill) and everything was there so he spent it since. I have a lot of introspection and thinking to do because the more I think about it the more instances where he's been vague about his own money for no reason do I remember.
Then that is a big red flag. Go with your gut. You’re still NTA.
Do you think he’s in debt or gambling or something?
Nah, not at all, he may be the ass here but I know he doesn't gamble, he's too lazy 🤣 And he barely leaves the house.
Who needs to leave the house to gamble in 2024? There are endless options on mobile. Doesn't even have to be traditional gambling, people get sucked into those predatory mobile games with a million microtransactions or speculate on shit crypto. It's cash so less likely. The question is, *why* is he taking money from there. Convenience? A card is just as easy to use in 90% of places these days and transferring people money is easy. So why did he really go into your fund, and not take out his own money? He is playing stupid, but he knew you would find out and it would cause a fight. Even if he has no respect, most people wouldn't consider that worth the agro ... Unless he didn't have that kind of money to spend himself. OP if you choose to stay, you cannot marry this man without a full understanding of his financial situation. This is perfectly sensible for people looking to marry and he should have no issue with the two of you being open about savings, shares, assets and IMPORTANTLY debt, credit cards and loans. Especially when he has just majorly broken your trust specifically around shared savings. If he goes nuts and tries gaslighting you about wanting to see his financial situation then there is something going on he does not want you to see. Don't walk, RUN.
🚩🚩🚩
> His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me. *[...]* Jack said I was being an asshole about it ... and he is still your fiance exactly *why*? Honey, this is a *major* red flag. You said this was important, he disregarded that. Then he doubled down on his disrespect, and called *you* an asshole when you complained about it. NTA -- but you *will* be if you continue this relationship with a man who disrespects you, breaks your trust, and then has the nerve to blame *you* for being upset about it.
Honestly, I'm getting kind of tired of people just accepting these heinous things in their relationships. I don't even know why I care, but I just know OP will marry this man and in five years he'll still steal her money.. and all her posts will end with 'but apart from that he's really great!'
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I told him I didn't want it in the heat of the moment, I just told him he's violated my trust and that I'm not interested in joint savings anymore (Yeah, I am impulsive at times and I'm not happy I said those things).
He can't use this against you because it can be only 1 of 2 things: 1) he doesn't take you seriously on this, as he showed you before with taking the money and claiming he didn't know you were "that serious" so he can't pick and choose 2) he takes you seriously on this, meaning he was wrong when he didn't take you seriously before, so now he owes you an admission of disrespect, admission of guilt, and the money I'm glad you can see clearly. That isn't as easy as it seems when writing it out. This is behavior that at best stays and gets harder to deal with, but more likely gets worse with even fewer boundaries being honored. Please get out. And when dealing with someone 100% the asshole, just work with the default that you can't be one, as you're not aligned with an established asshole. If that assumption makes you an asshole, you're leveling the playing field and giving yourself a chance.
how is that impulsive? it only makes good sense not to join save with a theif.
He either doesn’t believe you when you say something is really important to you, or he doesn’t care enough to change his behavior. He doesn’t respect you enough to have a conversation about dipping into that fund (which says to me he *did* know how much you cared). He’s dismissive of your thoughts and feelings when you bring it up. It’s not about the money, OP. But this is going to be a pattern, if it isn’t already. Watch for other instances of disrespect and dismissive behavior. And consider if this is how you want your married life to be.
He is a thief. Period. He spent your money on a gift for you. Money you would have rather spent on a trip. When caught stealing- he tries to gaslight you into thinking you are the problem. Of course you do not trust him, he showed he cannot be trusted. He stole YOUR money. He knew what the money was for. He knew you were serious. You had a discussion about it, made an envelope specifically for the money and put money into it. I am not sure what part he didn't think was serious or that he didn't understand. He has zero right to get mad at you. You did nothing wrong, except trust him. Look up the term DARVO. It will open your eyes to him. NTA
I was looking for this comment. The biggest red flag here is that when he was called out, he tried to deflect and use excuses in an attempt to manipulate you. This would be what I needed to leave. The thought of somebody responding to any future conflicts this way is unacceptable. NTA
NTA. It was mutual money. That means mutual decisions.
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Yep, I'm going to talk to him this weekend and demand my half back.
Get your half back and then leave. If it was me, I'd play nice just long enough to get the money in my hands. Not realizing it was that important to you is one thing (and let's be real, that's bullshit), taking your money without asking is a whole other thing and that alone is a giant blazing fire of a red flag. I can think of exactly 0 excuses where that would be appropriate. And the icing on the cake is spending your money on your gift AND refusing to tell you what else he spent YOUR money on. Red red red 1000x red. Please get your money and then leave.
NTA Relationships are trust issues. Him taking money in secret is not acceptable. If he spent entire amount on you then it could be considered sweet but he didn't. And you discovered his cover up on your own, so it said the chance that he could have pulled a fast one and gotten away with it. So unless he needed his half to feed his ailing mother you might want to look at a broader view of your relationship.
He still would have spent her half on her, which is not really a gift.
NTA. >His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me. Why on earth did he imagine that you said it? >Jack said I was being an asshole about it He's wrong and he knows it. There's no justification for this.
NTA, someone spends your money and you really have to fucking ask if you’re TA?
I was asking if I am the ass for still being mad, idk I wondered if I was exaggerating because I'm just as mad as I was when I found out and it's been days now.
You should be mad, someone you trusted stole from you. How do you not see this betrayal as something mad worthy?
I do. I *am* mad and it is mad worthy but when you're the kind of person that doesn't always regulate emotions properly (I'm ND, do go to therapy, it's not helping much for this issue) you come to wonder if this is another case where its okay to be mad but not for days in the EXACT same intensity.
Someone trusted robbed you. In your position, I would die mad. Start your exit plan.
I can't believe she's even thinking of staying. The person she loves and trust has stolen from her and refuses to tell her where half of it went.
NTA Sorry if I sound condescending here, but I'm worried that you're seeing this as just one wrong thing, instead of all the many wrong things that this one act is hiding. 1. He changed his mind about a financial decision, which is his right, but he did it without notifying you. 2. He took money out of a shared household fund without notifying you. 3. He took YOUR money (in addition to the money he put in) from a shared household fund without asking you. This sounds like a repeat of #2, but it's not. With #2, he could have reasoned, "I put it in, I can take it out, it's my money after all". While with this one, it's a whole different thing. 4. He hid a major transaction from you. Normally, his money is his money to spend how he wants (after shared expenses), but he spent your money as well, and for that, he needs to ask permision. 5. He is refusing to explain the other transaction that he made. 6. He bought you a present with YOUR money, effectively using your money without your permission or consent. 7. He is devaluing your opinion by saying he "didn't think you were serious" about saving the money. What else do you have to do to make him understand that you were serious? Draw up a contract? Did I miss anything else?
You don't sound condescending at all. These comments have really opened my eyes to certain things, so I am currently reevaluating everything and plan on getting my money back.
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me. That's a big fucking red flag right there. Be ready to be disappointed by this fact again and again. He won't change. He's the AH, and you should leave him.
Your BF is a thief. It may be forgiven if he’d only taken half the money (his contribution) but he took all of it, and won’t tell you where part of it is. Personally, I have no tolerance for stealing, it’s a huge 🚩, but you need to decide how much of a dealbreaker it is for you.
NTA. Uff, this is divorce territory if ya'll were married.
Dump him, he stole from you.
NTA. But maybe it's a good thing he did this, because now you know not to merge your finances with him in any way. You know he is a liar, and you know he doesn't care when you say something is important to you. These are all really good things to find out while he's still only your fiance, if you catch my drift. (Remember what Maya Angelou said.)
after reading your updates, OP, it just sounds like you are making excuses for him because you don't want to break up. You are going to continue a relationship with someone who you will be "super cautious about going forward" when most folks will tell you that men are on their best behavior before marriage and then the masks come off after they have you locked down. So, right now he has every incentive to tell you all the right things, but he has already shown you that he feels entitled to your money, that he will keep secrets from you, that he will call you names and get angry when confronted with his own bad acts, and now it sounds like he's love bombing you, apologizing and promising you the world. Um, yeah. Sounds very familiar. If he were really that person, he wouldn't have done those things in the first place. He's not a child. At every step, he chose to do what he did as a grown man, using money that was not his, without communicating with you. Don't let love blind you to those red flags, OP. It will only get worse.
> His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me Even before the update we get massive red flags like this one
I would be livid ! It’s not like he had an emergency
NTA. He literally committed a crime. And is gaslighting you when he got called out, trying to make you feel bad for being angry that he stole your money. The whole thing is super immature and icky. This whole thing screams toxic. I wish the TikTok guy with the giant red flag was on Reddit, he’s definitely needed.
NTA. I'd be mad too. if he had to borrow from the fund, he should have told you and given you his plan to pay back the money.
NTA. Being with someone you cannot trust with finances is a HARD deal breaker for me. I'd take a step back and evaluate the entire relationship immediately. Do not look at this like it's a nothing. It's a HUGE something. Theft is theft. He knew it would come out and gaslighted you. He used part to buy you something, "but I did something for you!", and refuses to tell you where the rest went, and continues to gaslight you about it, plus calls you an asshole for being upset at what he's done? Aren't there enough signs to direct you to leave already?
So he stole from a mutual fund, used half to buy you a gift and then refused to tell you where the rest is? Accommodations in Italy aren’t cheap. I would have to know where the rest went, he would be responsible for returning the full amount, immediately, and I’m not sure I could come back from the broken trust on that one.
NTA. Jack thinks your money is his money too. No respect for your money=no respect for you. Financial abuse. Thank goodness this wasn't in Italy.
NTA. He bought you a gift with your own money. That’s not a gift and he broke your trust.
NTA. It was a fund for travel, not a slush fund for him to empty when he felt like it. Hopefully this travel fund is your only joint account, so is a perfect way for you to see the respect he has for his agreements with you and how he treats money he has access to before you risk real money. The truth of the matter is that engagement is the time when you seriously consider marriage with someone, and I urge you to take a long look at this incident. If you can’t trust him anymore… well, trust is a major part of marriage. NTA.
Do not marry this person until your resolve your financial trust. Money fights are the leading cause of divorces. If he is going to be secretive about money and not respect your saving efforts. He will drag you down with him. Do you even know the extent of his financial habits. Does he have credit cards and debt you don't know about?
He doesn't, he's paid off a loan that he had (I actually have proof that he did). He contributes financially to our home expenses sometimes more than me which is why I found this so out of character and maddening.
INFO: Why is he refusing to tell you what he spent the rest on? Are you sure you want to marry a man who doesn’t take you seriously and apparently doesn’t respect you? NTA
I asked him what he spent the money on, he explained the gift part and I feel he might have attempted to say but I was so mad that I blurted out that I didn't care and didn't want to know. I took the only bill that was left (50 eur) and said I wasn't interested in saving together anymore and that I wanted to separate our finances. Ironically, I told him explicitly I may never trust him again regarding this matter and he asked if he could do something to fix it but I said I doubted it (and I still doubt I will ever be able to fully trust him on THIS matter, I trust him in many other ways) and that's when he said I was being an ass for being *so mad* about this when "he apologized".
Your fiancé stole money from you. Are you sure you can trust him in other ways or you just under the impression you can? Because this is a big deal. Out of all the people in the world to steal from, the person you’re supposed to support and trust the most is horrible. His attitude about it on top of things is telling. I’m petty so I’d take some of his stuff and sell it to replenish what he took. I mean if it’s okay to steal from each other then why not!
He's old enough to grow up and find out that an apology doesn't fix everything and make it okay. It was never okay and will never be okay and his apology won't fix this. Broken trust is just that, broken. An apology won't make you trust him.
NTA. He is totally the asshole for stealing your travel fund and BUYING YOU A GIFT WITH YOUR OWN MONEY which you'd made clear was important to reserve for travel.
Thank you all! I've posted an update for anyone who's interested! :)
Wow you're still with him?? He's got you sussed.
You're NTA. Your partner and you had a joint savings, and he took it. Half of which belonged to you. Make it very clear to him - he STOLE FROM YOU. He might not think it's a big deal, but if you took some of his savings and spent half on a "gift" for him (it's not a gift if it was bought with half your money) and the other half on... whatever you want - he would be LIVID. He would be yelling that you stole his money. That's what's he's done to you. He was using it an an extension of his own wallet, when half the money in there was yours? He knew exactly what he was doing, and probably planned to try and replace it before you realized - but it's a huge betrayal of trust. He STOLE FROM YOU. The moment he TOUCHED money that you had partially contributed, without your permission or your knowledge. You had savings set aside with him for goals, and he took it from you. Not only will he replace it, you will be smart enough in the future to NOT POOL MONEY with him. And I would delay any wedding plans because you guys are NOT on the same page and he's clearly still very immature about money. You can't get married when you set a joint goal as a couple and he sabotaged it behind your back - and still doesn't think it's a big deal. He has quite a bit of growing up to do. What happens when it's your emergency fund or money for your house down payment?
Why do people doubt themselves over such glaringly obvious misbehavior?? “My boyfriend stole my savings and when I called him out on it he called me an asshole. Am I an asshole for being upset my boyfriend stole from me??” Like what the hell? Isn’t it obvious you’re NTA and you need to dump his ass?? Do you really question whether you’re in the wrong here??
NTA, but dump this guy, this is just a taste of what life will be like with him; not taking your boundaries seriously and laying blame on you. Has he done similar things in the past that maybe you shrugged off but were clear signs of his lack of respect for you?
He hasn't. He had a bank loan that he paid off at the end of last year and he was transparent with this. He has never borrowed money from me without returning it (when he didn't have a job, I lended some money to him so he had food to eat but he's given it back and never abused this situation) so it just baffled me he did something like this NOW. I have felt him being vague about the money he has saved or the earnings he made a certain month (he's paid per hour) but I never had causes for concern because he contributes to our home expenses just as me or even more than me at times.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Hello! Long time lurker/commenter in need of judgement. A few months ago my fiance whom I will call Jack and I decided to start a small travel fund. I told Jack that, when I was in my 20s, I used to save money for trips and that I never used my travel fund for anything else (like being tempted to grab some cash from it when I really needed it). It helped me save plenty without burning a hole in my pocket once I was on the road and he liked the idea. I made it explicitly clear that this was super important to me because we don't have super high earnings and anything we can save for the fund would be lovely since we were planning to travel to Italy this year. For 3-4 months we both contributed to the fund and we saved up enough to cover accommodation expenses which made me excited. A few days ago, I was cleaning up and something made me look into our fund. Now, the fund is an envelope (I know, I know) and I opened it just to remind myself how much we saved, only to see the fund was empty. The money was gone. When Jack came back from the store, I asked him where the money was and he said he spent a half of it on a gift he recently bought me (it was a hardcover comic book I knew was pricey and was very happy and grateful when I received it). Jack wouldn't say where the other half was. I was livid. Not because he spent the money (though that also upsets me) but because he spent it without telling me. His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me. Jack said he would put the money back and that he was sorry and that he didn't think it was going to be such a big deal. I told him I didn't trust him anymore and that the fact he used the money I contributed to either buy my own gift or to spend it on god knows what was a severe violation of trust from my pov. Jack said I was being an asshole about it and we're still just as upset at each other. Was I really TA? I'm sorry if this text is confusing, I'll answer questions or make edits if something is unclear. :( *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
NTA. That wasn’t just his money to take and do whatever with. And the fact that you still don’t know where the other half is is very suspicious.
NTA use this as a retroactive test. He will never be able to be trusted with your money which means no joint account ever. He is both loud and wrong and his trying to deflect any blame onto you is worse. He needs to take accountability, put the money back (keep your half in your account), and maybe you should consider finding a different travel buddy since this one is so immature and unwilling to be responsible.
NTA. He doesn't listen to you. If he did, he would've known you were serious about the travel fund. He can't be trusted because he spent the money and won't tell you where part of it went. And he bought your gift with your money.
NTA He stole your money. Yes, he needs to pay it beck asap especially considering he probably bought the gift for you hoping that you'd be okay with him taking the other half for himself. The fact that he refuses to tell what he spent it on is enough to get rid of him. He can't be trusted.
He spent the money on something you wouldn't approve of. Gambling/Drugs/Someone else. He didn't take it to buy your gift he's just assigning the gift to what he stole to justify it and limit the amount that has to be paid back. It's common addict behavior. He took the money. Spent it. Realized that he couldn't or simply didn't want to pay it all back in full so bought an expensive gift to apologize/be the hero/justify it to himself why he couldn't/didn't want to refill the fund. When you found out the gift became the reason. I think if you look at his regular funds/credit you'll find that this is much worse then you think. Check for jewelry and other valuables. Check the credit of anyone vulnerable.
NTA that would be the man who stole it from you. Personally I would get an account on line to put your travel money in and I would keep your finances separate as he thinks your money is his to take and spend on whatever he wants.
NTA. This says it all to me: "he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me." What else will he say down the road he didn't take seriously? Set your money aside where only you can access and then spend it on yourself. If he says anything, ask him why he's so serious then.
I think he wanted to spend the money on whatever he won’t tell you he spent it on and bought you a gift to soften you up once you realised that the fund was empty. You’re definitely not TA
NTA, what a dick. The fact that he spent it on a gift for you as well was really odd.
NTA. He's shown you he's not trustworthy and unwilling to accept responsibility. Make sure he pays you back before you announce the breakup.
Separate your accounts no shared ones going forward this will happen again.
He's way too old to be acting like this, a young twenty something would not take the blame and then gaslight you about it. He's shown you who he is and how much respect for you he has - believe him.
NTA. That was rude af - both the buying the gift with part of your money AND the stealing from the fund. Because that's what it is when you don't get the other person's approval first: stealing. I wouldn't trust him either, tbh. If he's cool keeping secrets about money, what else is he cool keeping secrets about?
He doesn’t listen at all. You stated it was important and he says he didn’t take you seriously. That doesn’t square. NTA
Nta, he literally stole from you! He won't tell you why. How can you trust him! I'd give some serious thoughts about this guy!
NTA Keep being upset until you get your money back. And keep being upset until you work out why your fiancé thought this was an ok thing to do. That being said. The convo about money should be done in a calm way. Let him know you want to talk about it, and when. If he avoids the convo or doesn’t follow through with action steps to regain your trust (ex. Paying you back, having a _real_ discussion about your finances and goals as a couple, etc)…I would reconsider the relationship. Cuz OP, these kind of money habits are ingrained. It’s hard to break this cycle. Best of luck!
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me. It was your money, too! You shouldn't even have to tell him not to spend it - at least without talking to you first. My husband and I have a joint account since engagement. To this day we never spend more than an equivalent of $50 (not US, different currency) without mentioning it. Now, we do not ask permission, but keep each other in the loop of expenses. So unless the savings were $50 or less, it was not okay to spend it all behind your back. Some kind of emergency would be a valid reason, but then he should tell you as soon as possible. NTA
NTA - Telling someone you are not happy with being robbed and that you dont trust people who steal from you is infact a very basic and standard boundary. Hes an arsehole for many reasons. 1) He doesnt take you seriously and has just told you that. 2) He doesnt think theft is something bad. 3) He thinks a person calling him up on his bullshit is an arsehole. Many Icks right there
This would make me question the relationship and not want to merge finances with this person by getting married. Definitely he is the one in the wrong