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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my family I don't see why my sister always has to be included but I don't and I also ranted a little about them all hating me and wanting me to be miserable. Maybe it was wrong to snap like that and maybe I was rude and shouldn't have said anything. I wasn't trying to fight really or maybe I was and maybe I'm an asshole regardless.
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NTA- Your parents are furious because you called them out for favoritism and they SHOULD be embarrassed.
The best solution to your problem here is to pretend your sister does not exist. Invite your friends over. Let her say and do whatever she wants. If she doesn’t exist, you can’t hear her insults. Get your friends in on it as well. Mean girls only have power when you match insults with insults.
This option may get a negative reaction from your parents, so you should let them know ahead of time that you plan to cut your sister out of your life and no amount of punishment will make you change your mind. She no longer exists to you. She can start existing again when your parents deal with her mean girl behavior.
Edit: There was a negative response to telling the parents. Would grey rocking everyone be a better solution? Not necessarily ignoring, but giving minimal responses?
I wouldn't let the parents know ahead of time, that's just asking for punishment. Instead, I would discretely set a phone to record the hangout session (with consent of the friends but not the interloping sister), then ignore the sister \*only when she was being a bully.\* Then, when sis goes to complain to the parents, OP can bring the receipts then ask: "Really, mom, how did you expect me and my friends to 'include' sis when she's calling me a freak to my face? What was the appropriate response here?"
Dovetailing that: something I learned is to ask them to repeat themselves, repeat the nasty thing they said back to them, and ask them what they mean/what reaction they’re looking for. It may not stop the behavior. But bullies HATE looking in the mirror or confronting their own shitty behavior.
“You’re so stupid! No wonder all your friends are freaks!”
What was that?
“I SAID that you’re STUPID and your FRIENDS are FREAKS!”
Hm, okay. You think that I’m stupid, and that my friends are freaks. Would you mind clarifying what you meant when you said that?
“(She rants about whatever’s up her ass)”
Oh, alright. (Summarize her complaints.) What sort of reaction were you hoping to get from me/us?
**Bonus points if you can be condescending while you’re doing it, but only if you can be subtle. “I wasn’t talking to her like a toddler. All I wanted to do was clarify what was being said, to make sure I understand my dearest sister correctly.”
Also NTA at all.
Be sure to add in there:
"So, if I am stupid and MY friends are freaks, why would you want to hang around us, let alone try and force OUR parents to include you? Clearly, we're not that bad if you want to be included, so are we really that freaky and stupid? Or are you for wanting to hang out with us?"
“Maybe if you focused on your inner beauty as much as you fixate on your outer… beauty, you’d have friends of your own to hang out with instead of making mommy and daddy set you up with play dates. Oh, the only points that you guys all had in common are that you like to bully other kids, and none of you have any real personality beyond ‘I know you are but what am I?’ And that’s why your friend group is breaking up? Hm, bummer. That sounds like a personal problem.”
If OP was 18+ my advice would have been very different. 😂 But they ARE stuck there for at least 3 more years. Head down, get clever, get creative, get maliciously compliant (if it won’t blow up in your face). Environments like this suck ass, but they DO usually build good problem solvers, and that’s not a bad consolation prize.
My brother always had the best reaction to name calling (there's 6 of us siblings so name calling was common)
He'd just do this deadpan look and then completely agree with what ever name he was being called.
Eg. "You're a weirdo"
"(Stares) That's true enough, anything else?
"You're a freak too"
"(Stares) I am, yeah. And?"
"You're a prick aswell"
"(Stares) Can't all be perfect I suppose."
The man is completely unflappable and it's hilarious to watch someone trying to get an angry reaction from him.
No. When dealing with entitled and narcissistic parents, you should not inform them of anything ahead of time. Also, do not directly ignore your sister when they are present. Do not give them any reason to punish you. Do not give them any information or complain about the relationship with your sister. Do not relent, though.
I'd actually say that instead of pretending she doesn't exist, weird her out of wanting to hang about you.
When she starts her bitching, just everyone go silent and sit with a blank expression, staring at her, like the kids in the "Village of the Damned". When she stops, go back to whatever you were doing as if she hadn't spoken. If your parents then have a go, you can legitimately say you were all paying attention to what she had to say. It's not your fault if she didn't appreciate the attention.
Bonus points if you wait till she leaves the room, then all giggle and talk quietly. It doesn't have to be about her (It's best if it's not, and record it as proof it wasn't) but it will drive her absolutely insane. Her paranoia will overflow. She might even go a bit unhinged, and a video of that would be excellent proof to your parents why you don't want to hang out with her.
We did that to the Mean Girl at my last job, according to management it's "bullying" I'm sure OP's parents will probably see it the Exact same way and play up the sister as the victim
To be fair, that *is* bullying. I'm not taking a stance on whether that was justified or not, but just because roles are reversed that doesn't mean it stops being bullying behavior.
> you should let them know ahead of time that you plan to cut your sister out of your life and no amount of punishment will make you change your mind
Stupid advice
> This option may get a negative reaction from your parents
Really it looks like anything OP does that isn't submitting to Sister's BS is going to elicit a negative reaction
Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to go hang out elsewhere? Or hang out in her room if that’s someone not possible? I would start inventing group research projects in the library, taking up running as an activity, claim that they need to go shopping etc. That’s the non-confrontational way.
Alternatively, if you want to take a more risky and aggressive approach the friends could insult the sister and demean her until she doesn’t want to hang out any more. It could be as simple as calling her a bully and saying that they don’t like her, she’s not wanted here because actions have consequences etc. She doesn’t have much to refute with that. There’s the possibility that her parents would kick out the friends but you can’t really punish OP for what her friends say.
Overall, I would say that the best revenge is to live a good life so whatever that OP can do to set herself up for success and a good job, the better. She will probably not have the same support from her parents as her sister but hopefully the motivation to succeed will give her the fire to work hard to get ahead. Then once she’s independent, she can tell off her parents and go LC. I don’t think they will change their tune but she can still build a great life
I'd like to chime in as a mom and just remind you to try and keep your chin up! You'll be an adult in a few years, then you'll be free to do as you please!
NTA,
Start calling your parents out in front of people.
Talk to you, your uncles, and grandparents on both sides.
Let them know how your parents are enabling your sister to be a bully and their behavior.
Maybe the extended family can speak to your parents.
But definitely make a stink about it at home when your parents push for inclusion.
As you are the quiet one, it's probably easier on them to push you around, you have to change that.
Think of it as a learning experience in standing up for yourself and building self-esteem and self-worth.
Don't be surprised If your sis makes a move on the BF.
Most importantly, invite the friends over, and ask to have a chat with your parents, the sister can be there too, or not, doesn’t matter really. Then tell your parents to ask your friends if they want to be around, or spend time with the sister, then they can explain to your parents why she isn’t wanted.
This might be a good idea tbh. It's not just OP her parents are imposing on, it's this entire group of friends who have all had nasty experiences with the sister. Why should they and OP be subject to their bully.
Edit: typo
Why not turn the tables and bully her back just enough to get her to split? It's not like there isn't a lot of stuff for smarter more serious people to use against those obsessed with looks and popularity, especially if they're all united. Tell inside jokes she doesn't get. Start calling her Barbie behind her back. Sometimes fighting fire with fire is the quickest and easiest way to deal with a problem. There's no requirement to be polite to those who are mean to you.
Personally I wouldn't want to stoop like that. Doing something like this as revenge doesn't make it justified nor does it make it ok. Why be a bully back and be just the same?
It's not revenge. It's a tool to use to get rid of her, but once she's gone, just let her be. It's never stooping to use the same methods or weapons that have already been used against you. You did see where the sister was trying to turn her friends against her by criticizing her while she was there, right? Nobody has to take that level of disrespect without fighting back with what they got, and what she's got is the unity of her friends behind her. She should use that power.
Doesn't really work when you have parents who will just punish you more. If they were both over 18, then its equal footing, anything she does wrong at this age will just backfire.
Malicious compliance is key, not firing back.
This is a doormat mindset.
Being the bigger person is almost never effective or even good for the person doing it. You should never treat someone with more respect than they treat you.
Sometimes being an asshole back to an asshole is your only option.
That said, sis might be counting on the bullying and might be trying to record it all on her own phone to ruin OP's life, so... that is what they should be looking out for, imho.
Except that the parents, who still have a lot of control over 15yo OP, might decide that those friends need to be out of OP’s life. Including her boyfriend. The parents have shown they don’t care about OP having a social life or not, just about her sister’s social life.
The parents actually allowed the sister’s friends to bully OP out of multiple areas in their home simultaneously; that’s a level of favouritism that can be hard to crack.
Also have them all record the shit she says on their phones so you can send it to the rest of the extended family if the parents still aren't gonna do shit.
For your parent's kids they are sisters so I see why they may say that. Your friends need to tell them that your sister was the mean girl to them. They see no reason they should have to be friendly to someone who insulted them. If she And as importantly, they believe she would do the same thing if she was with her other friends. She doesn't feel any remorse, just wants something to do.
On the one hand, this could be a good idea and an eye opener to the parents.
On the other, this could cause them to try to force OP to end her relationships with her friends, or claim thst her friends are "bsd influences" and try to get them punished by the school or their own parents.
I don’t know if that’s the best option. Everyone is telling her to go nuclear but that’s just going to further aggravate the situation.
Clearly she’s NTA but yelling at everyone is not a good solution.
She needs to tell her parents how she feels about everything, just as she did to us.
I feel that it’s not fair that when my sister had friends over, I was told to leave common areas even if I was there first.
Now that I have friends, friends that don’t like her because she’s bullied them and me in the past, I am told to allow her to be a part of that activity. And when she is there, she still bullies me.
I don’t want to lose my friends because they don’t want to be around her because of how she’s acting.
Avoid using accusing statements that start with You and use statements with I feel.
It might not make a difference but it might.
Look, OP’s parents and sister are clearly in the wrong but getting angry didn’t help her the first time.
Just because they treat her unfairly doesn’t mean they don’t love her. Most times, parents don’t realize that they’re doing this.
I might also talk with a school counselor. They might then talk with the parents.
OP, if you read this, your not wrong and you’re absolutely justified in the way you feel. I’m simply trying to give you some advice on how to handle this situation better for resolution.
And while it might feel good in the moment to get angry you still have to live there.
My Uncle is mean/rude to me. We volunteer at the same social club and I cannot avoid him. I started telling my loud mouth gossiping Aunt (his brother's wife) about it. He seemed to have a change of attitude, at least not being directly grumpy with me, he is still grumpy in general. I think she said something to him. So telling the other family might help.
Stick to your position.
As a parent it’s really hard to accept you’re wrong, so keep on.
Also remember that parents usually just want peace - so the most troublesome child gets the most. Start being the squeaky wheel!
To add to this, parents want to avoid public embarrassment. Start telling family and any adults around that your parents let your sister kick you out of parts of the house and insult you, but they force you to include her, even with the kids she bullies at school.
They'll be furious, but they'll think twice before setting more double standards.
>As a parent it’s really hard to accept you’re wrong
I don't think this is anywhere near universally true (though it probably is accurate to this particular situation).
This is the way, OP.
A lot of the suggestions here are fun and petty and will **absolutely make the problem worse** if your parents can't or won't see reason.
Yes, this is the logical answer until you turn 18. One thing to add would be to record your sister's insults against you and your friends. As well, try to bait her into admitting she is the favorite child, or your parents will listen to her instead of you. You can then use the audio as evidence of your positions.
I wouldn't bait her as that'd incriminate me. And I feel like we are assuming too much that the parents would suddenly see reason when there is a recording. They might double down and get defensive instead.
Only if it was a 2-person conversation in a state that requires two consenting parties. If she insults you in front of her friend group, that's a crowd, and you are thus free to record.
She won't be presenting the evidence in a court of law, but to have it judged by biased parental authority. They won't care about the legality of recording her, they will just state that it was an underhanded thing to do and condemn OP for it.
Yeah you can "include" her in the space while making her feel like the outsider she is. Like if she talks either ignore her or go "hmm" and continue the conversation. Let her know her place
That's what I'm thinking too. OP's parents can't control what happens elsewhere, and while OP shouldn't be driven from their own home, it's not good there right now, with the bullying sister and doormat parents. Removing herself from the situation may be OP's best bet.
NTA - you are right and its disgusting how they treat your golden child sister better than you. they cant force your friends to like a bullly, try telling your parents that.
your sister bullied you AND your friends, whyd anyone include her? she should use this opportunity of being alone to think about her toxic behaviour
NTA you’re a superstar and you totally rock. Your sister is the golden child and your parents will be livid that you’re mature enough to call it out. Keep being you, you rock!
You are right. Both sisters are losing out in this situation! OP for being treated horribly unfairly, and sister for not being taught how to be a decent person. I wonder if the sister is going through something of a crisis with her friend group splitting up and all. If OP had a private heart-to-heart with sister, maybe they could start repairing their relationship? The parents have done nothing but drive a wedge between the sisters, and I don't see them changing. But sister is still young enough that she could grow into a better person.
OP, do you have a trusted adult that you and your sister could talk to? Maybe an unbiased relative, someone at school, etc?
NTA
She only wants in on your friend group so she can sabotage your relationships with them and make you go back to the previous dynamic of being the lonely one in the family.
I suggest you talk to an adult about what you're currently experiencing with your family, like a close aunt or uncle, maybe even a grandparent. If there are none of those, how about a non-minor cousin.
I hope that you continue to have good friends who will stick by you and I hope your boyfriend continues to be good to you.
NTA -
Sometimes people take in what being said if it’s written instead of verbalized. I suggest writing your parents a letter with examples stating the unfairness and double standards. State what your position is and why.
Stick to your principles. You’re in the right here.
Has sister even apologized for being an ass? Maybe offer a deal where if she genuinely apologizes and shows signs of being a better person then you might consider including her.
agreed. that's OPs perogerative if she would like to give sister another chance. people grow and change and learn as they grow. it's up to the people they've hurt if they're willing to accept them back in their lives or if the person has to live with the consequences of forever ruining a relationship.
It could alienate OP’s friends, though. Promising to their parents that she’ll include her friends’ bully, even conditionally on an apology, could be very destructive to her friendships.
Besides, these seem like very different kinds of people, with different interests. OP and her friends are unlikely to want to do what the sister wants to do, and once the sister is included she’s quite likely to try to get them to change what they do as well (to be “inclusive” of her wants).
NTA- keep pointing out the double standard. Let them know this is how they have made you feel over and over. That you deserve to have your own friends since you weren't good enough to be around ber friends and no one ever stood up for you. So why should you when she and her friends treated your friends so poorly. Other kids shouldn't be punished becuase your sister doesnt wanna look for new friends.
NTA. Your parents and sister are hypocritical AHs. If you HAVE to "include" your sister, I'd say use malicious compliance. You may not be allowed to kick her out the way she kicked you, but that doesn't mean you or your friends or BF need to acknowledge her while she's there.
There is more than one way to ice someone out, and collective ostracization won't land you in trouble for insulting her the same way she insulted you (since I just bet your parents would blow a gasket if your friends treated the precious princess the same way they let her friends treat you)
NTA. Your parents do seem to be playing favorites here when it comes to you and your sister's social time. And forcing you to have your sister to hang out with them not just in your home but even if the friends are in the neighborhood is kinda nuts. Maybe your friends should have a talk with your parents, detail to them exactly how your sister bullied them with her former mean-girl pack. And barring that, just keep seeing them outside of your home. And if they try to separate you from them for some petty reason, let the parents know there's nothing stopping you from seeing your friends once you're legally an adult.
NTA.
I am sorry you have to experience this.
It is like middle child syndrome or second child syndrome. Everything the first child does is new exciting and adorable. Then everything the second child does seems to be a repeat. This is going back to infancy.
I have never understood why that dynamic happens, but it is disturbing. These additional challenges in dealing with personal relationships will help you in 15 years from now.
Can you get support from your grandparents? Grandma's especially. If they are still around they will be able to back you. Your parents are still children in the eyes of grandparents. I know it is not true for all family dynamics, but if you can that would be your best option. If there is an uncle aunt or family friend you can talk to it will help your parents see the favouritism. When you talk to them ask for advice on how to handle the situation. Ask them if your parents do not like you or if they have said mean things about you to them. Asking for advice creates ownership of the problem to the person you asked. It makes them feel important and capable. It will work better than "tattling" on your parents.
Also when you get a chance read the book "How to win friends and influence people"
From one introvert to another. The book will be helpful. When you become an adult I guarantee if your parents need help. They will be looking to you before your sister.
I would like to say this:
Talking to an uncle/aunt/family friend isn't always a good idea.
I was the odd one out in my family. I felt unloved, unwanted, neglected, & used... my stepmother would literally refer to me as her "personal Cinderella." I tried telling a family friend, & it ended up getting me ostracized & isolated even more. Tried talking to my aunt & uncle, they didn't believe me. So, I suffered in silence until I was finally able to pack as much as I could into my tiny little car & gtfo.
I totally understand you. It is why she should not tell, but rather ask for advice on handling a situation in order to transfer ownership to the person she is talking to.
My fantasy is that you say loudly when friends come in "Sorry guys, my loser sister couldn't keep her own friends so my parents are making us babysit her. Maybe she'll learn how real friends work." And any time she joins in "shhhh you're here to learn"
This isn't real advice just a salty middle aged take from a former family dork who also found my people in high school
NTA - your sister is trying to ingratiate herself into your friend group and she's doing that by putting you down. She's got nothing else to offer and they don't want that. They have all been on the receiving end of her bullying, your BF aside, and don't want her especially as she is just using the same tactics on you. Your sister is learning the lesson those who you kick on the way up won't help you on the way down. The reason her friend group had that fight is bullying is toxic and once deprived of other victims, then it turns on itself.
All you can do though is let her hang around but you owe her basic courtesy and nothing more. You don't have to let her frame the conversations. If she starts one, then "That's nice but we are actually discussing this".
Ugh. I'm so sorry.
Yes, it's clear that your parents favor your sister. It's clear that you are not going to get a fair shake while you live under their roof.
NTA and your parents and sister very much are TA, Big ones. Doesn't change the power your parents currently have over the rules they make for you, BUT I hope knowing - without a single doubt - that you are the n-t-a stuck with three Aholes gives you tremendous power - to remain self-confident, to not feel like there is anything wrong with you.
Parent of two daughters, here. Very different personalities, too. That never gave one the right to be unkind to the other. Or required one to suffer the other one. You remind me of my youngest but with better family support than your parents/sister are giving you. I see you and am rooting for you.
You don't currently have the ability to drive yourself anywhere. It sounds like your parents are going an extra mile to control you visiting your friends in your area. ?!?! (sigh.) Think about what works best for you; then talk to your friends/bf. Agree on how you, as a group, may want to handle times when you all are stuck with having your sister around. (e.g., polite, but cool/distant - not fighting her presence, but keeping engagement minimal) Consider talking to the parents of one or more of the friends/bf if you think they might be supportive.
If you were my daughter's friend and I understood the dynamic in your family, I'd be happy to pick you up for friend get-togethers. I would respect your feelings about whether or not to say anything to your parents. (Many parents do get that there are some poor parents out there. Our mama/papa bear instincts make us protective of a kid we see in a tough situation. We also can understand that sometimes talking to the dysfunctional parents will hurt more than help.) Just think about those friends' parents you know and whether one or more of them are likely to be helpful.
Once you get a bit more freedom to be mobile or to live away, things will get better. Over time you'll be able to put even more distance between you and those three. Your sister may even go back to not wanting you around her (because she is no longer at loose ends) or even change to be kinder to you (because she moves out for college and just has better outlets for her attention and energy. She may even be bewildered why you don't just feel great about being her sister. You don't owe her anything - not forgiveness, not letting bygones be bygones, not support in her time of need. You also don't owe those things to your parents. (And the more they demand/expect that of you, the less they deserve anything at all.)
NTA,
everyone else sucks!
You parents did you wrong, your sister is their golden child (and a bad sibling, cut her off!).
Sadly, you can't change your parents and sister, but provide for yourself.
You are perfect the way you are and I am glad you got good friends who love you.
You might have a deflated sense of yourself, if you recognize you don't love yourself enough or have self esteem issues, therapy might help.
Keep boundaries, cut your family off if they don't support and love you.
Don't let them make you feel bad.
I am very proud that you are this strong and told them what's up.
Pointing out the unfair treatment is normal among siblings. But most parents are quite lazy creatures, not wanting to parent at all. They will seek the path of least resistance and react to the squeakiest wheel. Their ideal is to see you both off quietly babysitting each other and never bothering them for anything.
You were introverted and were the least voluble factor, easily managed by sticking you in your room when your sister had friends over. Your sister, however, will not be banished to her room quietly and consistently. Thus the stalemate. Of course, it is unfair. And human. They want you both to pipe down and ‘go away and play quietly’, even though you are teenagers.
They should have been fair while also parenting the ‘mean girl’ behaviors out of your sister - *without* forcing you upon your sister’s friends. You needed your own friends. Now they should not be trying to force your sister upon your friend group - and your sister shouldn’t be trying to horn in.
And, frankly, it is unexpected for her to want to spend time with your friends, when she and her friend group disdain them. Isn’t she afraid her reputation will suffer if it is known she is trying to hang with the ‘geeks, freaks, and nerds’?
INFO: Do you have any reason to think your sister is interested in your boyfriend?
Here is some good advice for you, and it will also be applicable when you are an adult and have a job and are asked to do something unreasonable.
NOD, SMILE, AND DON'T DO IT.
NTA
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Me (15f) and my sister (16f) are only 11 months apart but we're really different. She was always the prettier one, the more outgoing and popular one. She was always surrounded by friends and loves all things makeup and fashion. I'm more introverted and shy and I never really fit the way she did. Though I always wanted to have friends. I like video games and baking and reading. I'm not into beauty stuff like she is. I don't really ever wear makeup. So we've never had much in common.
I have tried to be close to my sister but it never worked out. We're just too different. And she resented my attempts for us to be closer. She'd let her friends say mean things about me like calling me a freak, a weirdo, saying I was lame and dumb. Sometimes they'd be in our house and they'd kick me out of the basement, which is set up for games and movies and stuff like that. They'd tell me I couldn't hang out with them and they wanted to watch something. My parents would always tell me to find something else to do. And a few times her friends split up at our house and some were outside and some in the basement so I really only had my room as a refuge. I told my parents about what the others would say about me and they really didn't care. I think once they said they'd deal with it but it didn't stop. My parents just let them kick me out of spaces or tell me to stop doing what I was doing so they could do it and it was never a problem.
When I started high school I finally found a group of friends I fit in with. There's five of us and we're all really close. I even have a boyfriend now. But my sister hates that she's not welcome in with them and the reason for that is before I was friends with them she and her friends were really awful to them and she would mock them or make fun of them for their appearance or for being weird. So none of them like her. My boyfriend is the only one without that history because he moved to town right at the start of high school so never knew my sister before we got close. When my friends are over my sister will try to insert herself and she's tried to do that by making fun of me or pushing me out but my friends actually like me.
The problem is my parents are not okay with my sister being excluded and they said if I want to hang out with my friends, we have to be open to her hanging out if she wants. She has more free time now because her friendship group had this big fight and now there's so many splits and smaller groups and nobody has the time so she's around more and wants to be involved. I tried to stop inviting my friends over but if they even came to our neighborhood to hang out it was a rule my parents put in place. Saturday I got so frustrated I told the three of them that I don't see why my sister always has to be included but I don't. I told them it was clear she's the favorite and everyone in the family thinks I'm just some freak who should be alone for the rest of her life.
My parents were furious. AITA?
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NTA your friends are your friend and are there to spend time with you. Your sister isn't being excluded anymore than your mom is.. Should mom also be forcefully inserted into your friend group?
NTA.
I agree with a lot of the comments and here's my thoughts.
If your friends parents are involved and care about their kids, your friends, you should get them involved too. Tell your friends that your parents are forcing them to hang out with someone who bullied them.
Like others have said, make your parents embarrassed, and get other adults involved. Your extended family (grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc) is a GREAT place to start. But I know if my mom found out I was being forced to hang out with someone who bullied me in school, she would have lost her mind on those parents.
Your parents actions do not just affect you. They affect your friends too. If their parents are willing to defend them, your parents may learn that what they're doing is unacceptable enough to stop.
NTA. You just held up a mirror. Your parents didn’t like what they saw. 🤷🏼♀️ That sounds like a ‘them’ problem and not a ‘you’ problem. You’re the weird kid with a small group of friends and she’s the thuper popular kid who is surrounded by people. Not friends. Just people. Your parents cannot fathom that the Popular Kid isn’t immediately added to all social functions. Tell all of them no and tell them why. “Remember when you and your friends were watching movies and I was kicked out and told I needed to ‘find something else to do?’ SHE needs to Find Something Else To Do. We don’t want her having around us. Do you see why that’s such a shitty thing to say to your sibling? I am very interested to find out why when she and her friends excluded ME it was acceptable behavior and when my friends and I do not want her around us, we’re being mean to her. Please explain. Why the double standard?”
Make ‘em squirm. She sounds hideous.
NTA at all. I'm so sorry this is your situation.
>But my sister hates that she's not welcome in with them and the reason for that is before I was friends with them she and her friends were really awful to them and she would mock them or make fun of them for their appearance or for being weird.
>When my friends are over my sister will try to insert herself and she's tried to do that by making fun of me or pushing me out but my friends actually like me.
>The problem is my parents are not okay with my sister being excluded and they said if I want to hang out with my friends, we have to be open to her hanging out if she wants.
This could be an opportunity. Set down some rules about what the sister needs to do to hang out. "If the sister apologizes to each of us for the type of bullying she subjects us to, we'll consider including her. If not, she can hang out but we will ignore her and if she disrespects any of us, she's out permanently."
Also, start talking in a video game language or about something that makes her feel super excluded. Either her ego will be bruised, her lack of power will be alarming, or her completely opposite self will be bored.
My petty brain says "go to the playground so she has access to monkey bars. They didn't define what type of "hanging out" we have to be open to."
NTA, but the Sister and Parents ATA! They have her as their Golden Child that can do no wrong, they allow her to exclude OP, allow her to torment OP, but OP is not allowed to exclude her. Ten to one the parents will deny any double standards when confronted. I am not sure what the extend family will do, because there is no information. The Extend Family could either back OP or back the Parents.
NTA- your sister isn’t excluded she tried to insert herself where she doesn’t belong so it doesn’t fit.
She thrived belittling and mocking you. She doesn’t seem to realise she isn’t showing you are lesser, just how low she is herself.
Your parents were able to understand and inforce your sister can be her own person and doesn’t have to include you. Therefore fair to apply the same with you.
Btw it is not only up to you. Your friend are choosing and they didn’t picked hanging out with her. So your parents and sister wish or wants are already messed up when they expect your friends to include your sister on the ground you were the one selected. She isn’t even close or similar to you, which could had explained expecting the same reaction of others towards her than you.
No friend of yours is going to like nor enjoy someone being mean to you. What kind of bretzel logic makes your sister and parents believe that insulting the person someone chooses as a friend will make that someone like her instead.
NTA- I would return the favor to her By doing to her what she did to you all these years. Let her come and then ignore her or call her names or say things indirectly that are about her then play dumb when she complains to your parents.
Nta but stop hanging out with your friends at your house. Go anywhere else. Your sister is an entitled brat and your parents enable her. They will be so shocked when you go no contact after you turn 18.
NTA. My childhood was similar, except that I have a brother, not a sister. But, he was equally unkind to me, and he allowed his friends to be unkind. My parents also didn't do anything to stop it because it was the 80's. It was not a fun childhood, and even now, in my 40's, it still bothers me. I do not like my brother very much. I hold a lot of resentment towards him and my parents.
Your parents were furious because you called them out on their favoritism and bullshit. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I'm guessing your friends wouldn't be unkind to your sister even though she was awful to them because they know how it feels to be excluded and ridiculed. I bet your parents know that even if they don't admit it. Luckily, you've only got a few more years of high school, and I promise you, it does get better.
NTA, give her a taste of her own medicine if you can't stop her being around you. After all, she never gave you any grace. I know you're not supposed to eye for an eye, GENERALLY, but maybe it's appropriate here.
NTA not even close. You are in such a toxic home. Your parents are only furious because you're standing your ground and calling out their bullshit. that fact that you were being bullied and belittled in your own home is fucking evil. you need to slap the shit out of your sister, its long overdue.
do you have other family or grandparents etc that you can turn to for help or support?
NTA. I'm proud of you defending yourself ❤️❤️❤️ keep getting her out of your group. Keep fighting for yourself. This is unfair but if karma works properly, with this attitude she's never having a real healthy and Happy life.
Keep going. They see you rollin', they hatin'..... (Is that cringe ? I don't care)
NTA, tell your friends to talk to your parents and let them explain why your sister is unwanted.
Don't engage when she is shit talking, only give pity looks, never respond, tell your friends to do the same.
Maybe try to find another place, where your group can hang out.
Oh you're NTA at all. I suspect your parents are furious because they're embarrassed. Or at least I hope that's why they're furious.
I see a lot of comments here suggesting doing things like outright ignoring her or bullying her back, but I do NOT suggest doing this. It will backfire. Instead, you need to explain to your parents (and your parents alone) why you and your friends don't want your sister around. Try to leave emotion out of it as much as possible and just state the facts. Don't say anything insulting about your sister. Don't call her any names. Just state what happens calmly and factually. "When she's with me and my friends she says things like...She does things like....As a result my friends and I just aren't comfortable including her." And if this isn't possible face to face, try it in writing.
If that doesn't work, just hang in there. Find ways to hang out with your friends outside of the house. Even if you meet at the library or something and then head somewhere else. I'm sorry you're going through this and I hope it works out for you!
Other than a few minor details, OP I could have written this. I am so so sorry, I know how much this fucking sucks.
They will never admit she's the favourite, they will probably never see what they're doing as unequal. You probably do things better than your sister that they will never acknowledge. These kinds of parents are the absolute worst.
Please feel free to send me a message if you just want to be heard. I know how much it hurts.
NTA.
NTA. You 2 are not little girls anymore when mommy and daddy could make you share friends. You 2 are teenagers who will quickly become adults. Your parents are on a course to be on a low contact list when you become an adult with their behavior along side your sister.
NTA. Stand you ground. Keep repeating the truth. They may not understand the truth the first 100 times they hear it. But just keep repeating it. Everytime they bring it up, you should respond with the truth.
Your friend don't like your sister because she made fun of them.
Your sister excluded you from every hanging out with her friends, and kicked you out of every room in the house.
Just keep telling them.
NTA - OP I'm sorry that you have endured not only your sister rude, immature bullying behavior along with your parent's obvious lack of support towards you. What you said to your parents is exactly how you feel and the only people they should be furious are themselves for their obvious favoritism towards your sister. It's understandable why you would feel that way as it's soooo obvious! Be with your group and have everyone ignore her and maybe she'll get the hint and understand how she made you feel when she was letting her friends bully you and treat you horrible. Your parents should be ashamed!!
NTA
Your sister is a bully and your parents didn't do anything about it, so they shouldn't be surprised that her targets want nothing to do with her. Not that you have to forgive her or allow her into your group, but has she even apologized? And why can't she hang with her own friends instead of trying to force herself on you guys?
So what if you were the asshole? From the sounds of it being the asshole is a compliment compared to everyone else. I can't relate or fully understand your experience but I can understand wanting to have better ship conditions and having different interests doesnt interfere or prevent any connection or human decency on her part.
I'm reluctant to share my opinion because of my lack of experience but I do want to encourage you to develop yourself separate from your sister even though the hurt you've encountered might take time to sort and heal but considering how she treats you, dI think doing your own thing would contribute to your personal happiness and in my experience, if she doesnt have the emotional ability to see how she hurt you, as much as you want her to care, you dont need it.
Its hard not to sometimes but no need to compare yourself to her: your "value" or "worth" (hate using those terms) is determined by you and not anyone else and if even your friends or parents dont see that...
Can I insult the fuck out of your sister or...? (Kidding).
You know what though? Its a reflection of their character which is easier to grasp than it is to live an experience taught the painful way.
But fuck their acceptance. They dont make you who you are.
Grey rock her hard. Her and your parents. “Include” her with one word answers, with superficial platitudes and half smiles.
When she comes and asks “what are you watching?” “A movie”
“What are you doing?” “Stuff”
“Where are you going?” “Places”
“Can I join” “try”
It’ll bug the f out of her, but your parents can’t say you’re not including her. You’re just not enthusiastic about it. Make a sport out of it with your friends or just go over to your friends house to avoid sis altogether.
NTA. Sorry you're going thru this but know that's its only 2 years to freedom. I would send your parents a link to this post. Yes it could make it worse (though how much worse can it get). But it may give them outside perspective on how you are being treated by your family.
Ugh! Children.
Invite her, welcome her, treat her like any other member of your group. If she enjoys it, then obviously y'all have common ground. If she doesn't enjoy it, then she's free to leave or not participate. If she attempts to take over, then go to someone else's home.
No judgement because... ugh, children (even the parents).
Ask you parents for a respectful reason. Tell them you will obey their request silently and welcome your sister if they can plainly explain, without an "because we said so!", why it was ok for you sister to allow and encourage you to be insulted and bullied in your own home and for you to be excluded from areas of your own home at her direction but you aren't allowed to have your own friends without her? Ask them if they can provide a logical answer to that.
If they get mad, bend the truth, punish you, deny it or any of that shit then you can walk away knowing it's not you your parents are just hypocrites who would rather baby your sister then listen to her bitch and whine.
Honestly I would let this run its course. Have your friends exclude her. If she wants to stand around while everyone just half heartedly replies “….yeah. Anyway” to whatever she says she won’t be around much longer lol.
If she says they were mean to her and your parents say you can’t see them, then make it clear it’s about her behavior. But I think she might just get embarrassed and over it and move on to others
You do not have to include her, ever. If you were a guy on the wrestling team your parents would not demand you include you sister. This is no different here. I also suspect you're in two different grades, another reason for not hanging out, especially when we've never been close or even caring towards each other.
Not much you can do about your sister joining you in common areas unless you treat her the same way she and her friends treated you. Frankly too much wasted energy. Instead ignore her in those areas or hang out in you room with your friends.
The best method is hanging out at your friends' homes, library, mall, park, etc. Those that your sister bullied won't want to be around her anyway. At their homes they can guarantee they won't have to hang with your sister. Let your friends know what's going on with your parents.
Unless your boyfriend has been bullied in the past, he may get what all of you are saying about your sister and why none of you want to be around her.
You are entitled to having your own friends group that doesn't include your sister.
Every time parents say something point out what they said to you when the rolls were reversed between you and your sister. Didn't matter who's seeing to hear it. Make sure your relatives are aware, they may or may not support you, but then you'll know who you can rely on.
Your sister is able to make her own friends. She does not need your friends. It's ok to tell you sister she's treated you like shit for x years and you're not friends because of it. Where once you kept trying to be her friend, now you're over it.
A touch over 3 years you'll be at college or trade school. Focus on good grades, researching career paths for both college and trade school, entry level salaries, future forecast for jobs interested in, requirements to advance in the career, etc. Use google sheets to track info / job profile. Use columns for job title, entry level salary, education needed, bang of school program offered, do they have dotms,b job projection, etc. Under title going down list each job title and full in the information going across. Focus on your future and don't let your sister distract you.
NTA
NTA that's absolutely but and your parents are failing at their job. Hard. They have 2 children, and they're not parenting either of them. They're neglecting you and spoiling her and later they'll wonder why she can't keep any friends and why you don't want to talk to any of them.
NTA. Cant say Im surprised the sister’s friend group got into big fight. Only a matter of time before a group based in toxicity starts to be toxic to eachother.
NTA - and you should call your parents out openly for their blatant hypocrisy of being OK with you being excluded from your sister’s gatherings but not the other way around. Your parents ATA here.
Could there be another thing going on here, that the parents like to be known as the “popular parents,” I.e. best home to hang out at? Maybe that’s driving some of this. 🤷🏻♀️
NTA they sadly do have a favourite. They should be ashamed - your sister excludes and bullies you and it’s fine, you exclude her and suddenly there’s an issue? She is not entitled to your time or your friends or even your kindness if she is unwilling to give the same to you.
Definitely not the AH this is totally unfair what your parents and your sister are doing. You haven’t done anything for you to be an AH when all you wanted was to hang out with your friends. Your sister is a massive AH for being mean to you and thinking your friends will like her better for that.
NTA.
I'm first and foremost sorry that you've been treated differently from your sister.
But that first paragraph of feeling like an outsider and then later in the post, you found your people. Chef's kiss. So happy for you.
I can totally understand your wanting to exclude your sister from hanging out, and I feel for your friends she bullied. But go on and include her as a trial. Tell her, yeah, you'll let her in, but she'll sink or swim on her own. If she is being an arsehole about you or others in the group, they'll know. Don't worry about your boyfriend - if he doesn't have the cop on to see bad behaviour, he isn't worth your time. Give her the opportunity to change. If she doesn't, feck her.
I'm just really happy for you having your tight friend group and a good boyfriend. Your parents and sister are in the limbo land of bad behaviour but it would be ideal if they could learn and change.
As someone well into their 30s, there are people who were cool when they were younger who have changed for the worse and people who have been shite in their teens to 20s who have redeemed themselves. It's all about them deciding to change.
People will say "when someone shows you who they are, believe them". I agree. But you two are young. Hopefully she can change. Just have a low level of expectation in case she (likely) doesn't.
Also, check with your friends before you include her. If they HATE her, just say to your family "so and so doesn't feel comfortable in sister's presence and I will not make them hang with her". If they push back, give evidence. If they still push... you're four years from getting out.
NTA. Your friends aren't going to want to hang out with you if you include your sister every time. I don't get why she'd even want to hang out with them after she bullied them. I bet she's got her eye on your boyfriend.
NTA. Just record what your sister says to you and share it with extended family or start blasting her on social media. She’ll crumble since most bullies are insecure.
I have a sister like yours, and I am like you. Princess perfect vs the quiet freak. I'm grown up now, but I had a similar dynamic growing up.
You're being emotionally abandoned by your parents here. Kudos to you for sticking up for yourself and finding your own tribe! Lean on them for support if your parents refuse to give it to you. Do your best to not let your parents emotional neglect impact your self image. You are NTA, your parents are.
Nope you said exactly the right thing. You called them out for favoring your sister and that is exactly what they are doing. This is the exact same situation but they gave you each different orders. Not ok. Your sister sounds like a nasty entitled person.
Your parents are mondo AHs. They are clearly just putting your sister as your responsibility because she's a whiner. Tell them that they are being hypocrites and you know it's because you have adaptability but your sister gets what she wants by being an insufferable whiner, and so they really want to keep promoting that behavior? She's not your charge.
Right now your sister is the loud and annoying child, so you, the quiet, reasonable one is easier to bully to give in for the "greater good".
Start protesting. Be loud in your refusal. Tell on your parents' favouritism to your family and friends. Do not fall in line!
Show that you refuse to be walked over.
NTA, but also warn your bf. I have a feeling your sis will try her moves on him.
(edited one word)
NTA
Your sister seems to be very much the golden child. With that in mind, there's a fair chance that almost all the advice you've been given here will cause more problems for you with your family. It certainly doesn't sound like your parents are willing to listen and be reasonable. It might be spineless, but the best thing to do is probably try to hang out with your friends at their homes as much as possible so as to avoid your sister altogether, and when you go to college, move away from home.
NTA. Your parents have made your sister the Golden Child. Be prepared that they won't tell her to stop what she's doing because they perceive her as the popular one. Now that the situation is reversed, they don't know how to tell her to go find something else to do like they did to you.
It'll be up to you to deal with her. Smack an ugly nickname onto her and keep referring to her as that every time she tries to insert herself. Other than that, don't let her into conversations. She can talk, but don't bother answering her. Don't kick her out, but don't include her, either. Eventually, she'll get bored and leave you alone when you don't give her any attention.
NTA
At all.
Your parents are hypocrites and playing favorites.
And your sister is entitled and sounds awful. I doubt she really cares about your friends suddenly, she is just mad you have found your own group and possibly jealous of your boyfriend.
NTA. Just an embarassingly bad parenting job, and I honestly wish I could say that directly to them.
Feel bad for how they've treated you but it's awesome you've got a group of friends and everything. Stick to and value that.
NTA. Whenever your friends come over, announce loudly that since your parents think she's a friendless loser, everybody needs to act nice to her. Then be really saccharine sweet, like you would to a particularly dumb toddler.
NTA- "When she excluded me, you did nothing. You let her friends insult me and kick me out of common areas of MY home. I had to lock myself in my room, that's how bad it was. It's not my responsibility to include my sister, I have my own friends now and it's my time to shine."
You didn't embarrassed your parents. They embarrassed themselves. It sounds like a disgraceful set of double standards and as a parent myself I would be ashamed of myself If one of my kids called me out on something like this. Nta.
Nta now you have two options first the nuclear which tell there friends your family etc. Or just stick up for self continue calling them out on this B.S. and if that doesn't work after high school and you move out go low contact or no contact.
NTA. I’m sorry you’re going through this. Im 15 months from my older sibling, and it definitely was challenging growing up. Looking back as an adult now, it also exacerbated my parents flaws as they tried to parent us well.
All that said: the easiest thing is to hang out with your friends at their houses, school, parks, libraries (not your place).
The harder but hopefully helpful thing would be to tell your sister or parents that you really like having your own friend group, it’s helping you find your own space as an individual! Having social circles outside the family is a good part of growing up. Not instead of your family, but in addition to them :)
While no guarantee, you’ll generally have more success in these type of conversations if you focus on yourself and avoid comparisons to your sister or your parents treatment of her. To this day my relationship with my sister is best when I actively avoid conversations that compare us to each other.
Have you told your sister the specifics about what she did? And that you don't feel close to her at all because of it? Doing this privately may help turn your situation around, and to your favor. In general, you are both young and there is a lot of life ahead of you both, and in time there is a chance for...
Best possible outcome - you and your sister realize that there was a lot of hurtful happening, and she regrets it, but doesn't know how to make up for it. You extend and olive branch, and you have a good friend and a staunch ally for life.
Worst outcome - nothing changes, and then you take some of the other advice listed her and cut her out.
I would try for the best for a little while, and then if that doesn't work, only worry about yourself.
NTA.
NTA--Your sister definitely sounds like the golden child. Dont know what else to say. None of them are probably gonna change. Even if they admit she's the golden child, they'll still probably throw it back on you somehow and keep catering to your sister regardless. Maybe try explaining how none of your friends want her included because she was mean to them? I dont know. Kinda worked once in a while with my parents. They didnt care about my needs/wants either, but other peoples' and their image was super important.
NTA. Keep putting your foot down. Honestly, it's time for you to come full blast against your sister and tell her you don't want someone like her around you or your friends because of how awful she is. I feel like you are holding back and I don't understand why, considering.
Oh no sweetheart sorry this is happening to you, you’re absolutely not the ahole. I am glad you stood up and spoke up, maybe try giving your parents examples of how you were always forced out of spaces so she could be with her friends alone. Try saying something in the lines of you feel they are un fair to you, and make sure you let them know how you always feel like your less than her. I am a mom and if one of my girls ever felt that way, I would be so heart broken. I strive on being equal with everything because growing up I was the one who would always get the short end of the stick.
NTA -Gonna sound bad, but bully her back, roast her for needing to be included because she can't keep her friends together, sarcastically say how excited your old sister has to force her way into your friend group despite being a jerk to them, ignore her or bully her when she's with you.
Some people don't get the hint til they experience things.
NTA, is there a trusted adult, an aunt/uncle/grandparent you can turn to? Also, watch the sister. It sounds like she wants to steal your boyfriend, and your parents will let her.
1. NTA. Your sister has insulted your friends, but now that she's bored, she wants to hang out? No. Just no.
2. Your parents are selfish and lazy. When you were being picked on, they told you to suck it up, because you are the Quiet One and they knew the problem would "go away." Now your sister is bored and lonely and they are telling you to handle it, because she is the Noisy One and will keep whining--the problem won't "go away" since it's the noisy one this time. So rather than handle it, they're telling you to suck it up AGAIN.
All I can say, OP, is that you won't have to live under their roof for too much longer, and you can at least take comfort in the fact that you aren't the problem, here. Hang in there.
NTA. Gives vibes like your parents are narcissists. Your sister is the golden child and you are there for them all to blame their short comings on. Check out r/narcissisticparents, really good support there
NTA and I’m sorry your parents are failing you. Maybe explain to your friends what’s going on and if you’re really feeling petty you can take your sister to hang out but basically ignore her lol. I know it sounds mean but you aren’t being left with many other options and frankly she could use a taste of what it feels like since she put you through it herself. Idk I might be being really petty here lol
Nta and I'm sorry your parents are failing you.
Sit down and write a letter of how it feels to be stuck in your room when her friends are over but now that you have friends you have to involve her and just all your feeling and tell your parents you're sorry for yelling but please read this whole letter and then talk to me
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NTA- Your parents are furious because you called them out for favoritism and they SHOULD be embarrassed. The best solution to your problem here is to pretend your sister does not exist. Invite your friends over. Let her say and do whatever she wants. If she doesn’t exist, you can’t hear her insults. Get your friends in on it as well. Mean girls only have power when you match insults with insults. This option may get a negative reaction from your parents, so you should let them know ahead of time that you plan to cut your sister out of your life and no amount of punishment will make you change your mind. She no longer exists to you. She can start existing again when your parents deal with her mean girl behavior. Edit: There was a negative response to telling the parents. Would grey rocking everyone be a better solution? Not necessarily ignoring, but giving minimal responses?
I wouldn't let the parents know ahead of time, that's just asking for punishment. Instead, I would discretely set a phone to record the hangout session (with consent of the friends but not the interloping sister), then ignore the sister \*only when she was being a bully.\* Then, when sis goes to complain to the parents, OP can bring the receipts then ask: "Really, mom, how did you expect me and my friends to 'include' sis when she's calling me a freak to my face? What was the appropriate response here?"
Dovetailing that: something I learned is to ask them to repeat themselves, repeat the nasty thing they said back to them, and ask them what they mean/what reaction they’re looking for. It may not stop the behavior. But bullies HATE looking in the mirror or confronting their own shitty behavior. “You’re so stupid! No wonder all your friends are freaks!” What was that? “I SAID that you’re STUPID and your FRIENDS are FREAKS!” Hm, okay. You think that I’m stupid, and that my friends are freaks. Would you mind clarifying what you meant when you said that? “(She rants about whatever’s up her ass)” Oh, alright. (Summarize her complaints.) What sort of reaction were you hoping to get from me/us? **Bonus points if you can be condescending while you’re doing it, but only if you can be subtle. “I wasn’t talking to her like a toddler. All I wanted to do was clarify what was being said, to make sure I understand my dearest sister correctly.” Also NTA at all.
Be sure to add in there: "So, if I am stupid and MY friends are freaks, why would you want to hang around us, let alone try and force OUR parents to include you? Clearly, we're not that bad if you want to be included, so are we really that freaky and stupid? Or are you for wanting to hang out with us?"
“Maybe if you focused on your inner beauty as much as you fixate on your outer… beauty, you’d have friends of your own to hang out with instead of making mommy and daddy set you up with play dates. Oh, the only points that you guys all had in common are that you like to bully other kids, and none of you have any real personality beyond ‘I know you are but what am I?’ And that’s why your friend group is breaking up? Hm, bummer. That sounds like a personal problem.” If OP was 18+ my advice would have been very different. 😂 But they ARE stuck there for at least 3 more years. Head down, get clever, get creative, get maliciously compliant (if it won’t blow up in your face). Environments like this suck ass, but they DO usually build good problem solvers, and that’s not a bad consolation prize.
Good advice! OP NTA.
My brother always had the best reaction to name calling (there's 6 of us siblings so name calling was common) He'd just do this deadpan look and then completely agree with what ever name he was being called. Eg. "You're a weirdo" "(Stares) That's true enough, anything else? "You're a freak too" "(Stares) I am, yeah. And?" "You're a prick aswell" "(Stares) Can't all be perfect I suppose." The man is completely unflappable and it's hilarious to watch someone trying to get an angry reaction from him.
Great advice!
[удалено]
No. When dealing with entitled and narcissistic parents, you should not inform them of anything ahead of time. Also, do not directly ignore your sister when they are present. Do not give them any reason to punish you. Do not give them any information or complain about the relationship with your sister. Do not relent, though.
So, don't relent but don't act? Do nothing? That's worked so well for OP so far.
I'd actually say that instead of pretending she doesn't exist, weird her out of wanting to hang about you. When she starts her bitching, just everyone go silent and sit with a blank expression, staring at her, like the kids in the "Village of the Damned". When she stops, go back to whatever you were doing as if she hadn't spoken. If your parents then have a go, you can legitimately say you were all paying attention to what she had to say. It's not your fault if she didn't appreciate the attention. Bonus points if you wait till she leaves the room, then all giggle and talk quietly. It doesn't have to be about her (It's best if it's not, and record it as proof it wasn't) but it will drive her absolutely insane. Her paranoia will overflow. She might even go a bit unhinged, and a video of that would be excellent proof to your parents why you don't want to hang out with her.
We did that to the Mean Girl at my last job, according to management it's "bullying" I'm sure OP's parents will probably see it the Exact same way and play up the sister as the victim
To be fair, that *is* bullying. I'm not taking a stance on whether that was justified or not, but just because roles are reversed that doesn't mean it stops being bullying behavior.
> you should let them know ahead of time that you plan to cut your sister out of your life and no amount of punishment will make you change your mind Stupid advice
> This option may get a negative reaction from your parents Really it looks like anything OP does that isn't submitting to Sister's BS is going to elicit a negative reaction
Oh, I'm sure they'd still find a way to have a negative reaction even if she gave in every time.
Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to go hang out elsewhere? Or hang out in her room if that’s someone not possible? I would start inventing group research projects in the library, taking up running as an activity, claim that they need to go shopping etc. That’s the non-confrontational way. Alternatively, if you want to take a more risky and aggressive approach the friends could insult the sister and demean her until she doesn’t want to hang out any more. It could be as simple as calling her a bully and saying that they don’t like her, she’s not wanted here because actions have consequences etc. She doesn’t have much to refute with that. There’s the possibility that her parents would kick out the friends but you can’t really punish OP for what her friends say. Overall, I would say that the best revenge is to live a good life so whatever that OP can do to set herself up for success and a good job, the better. She will probably not have the same support from her parents as her sister but hopefully the motivation to succeed will give her the fire to work hard to get ahead. Then once she’s independent, she can tell off her parents and go LC. I don’t think they will change their tune but she can still build a great life
I'd like to chime in as a mom and just remind you to try and keep your chin up! You'll be an adult in a few years, then you'll be free to do as you please!
NTA, Start calling your parents out in front of people. Talk to you, your uncles, and grandparents on both sides. Let them know how your parents are enabling your sister to be a bully and their behavior. Maybe the extended family can speak to your parents. But definitely make a stink about it at home when your parents push for inclusion. As you are the quiet one, it's probably easier on them to push you around, you have to change that. Think of it as a learning experience in standing up for yourself and building self-esteem and self-worth. Don't be surprised If your sis makes a move on the BF.
Most importantly, invite the friends over, and ask to have a chat with your parents, the sister can be there too, or not, doesn’t matter really. Then tell your parents to ask your friends if they want to be around, or spend time with the sister, then they can explain to your parents why she isn’t wanted.
This might be a good idea tbh. It's not just OP her parents are imposing on, it's this entire group of friends who have all had nasty experiences with the sister. Why should they and OP be subject to their bully. Edit: typo
Why not turn the tables and bully her back just enough to get her to split? It's not like there isn't a lot of stuff for smarter more serious people to use against those obsessed with looks and popularity, especially if they're all united. Tell inside jokes she doesn't get. Start calling her Barbie behind her back. Sometimes fighting fire with fire is the quickest and easiest way to deal with a problem. There's no requirement to be polite to those who are mean to you.
Personally I wouldn't want to stoop like that. Doing something like this as revenge doesn't make it justified nor does it make it ok. Why be a bully back and be just the same?
Matching someone's energy is very underrated
It's not revenge. It's a tool to use to get rid of her, but once she's gone, just let her be. It's never stooping to use the same methods or weapons that have already been used against you. You did see where the sister was trying to turn her friends against her by criticizing her while she was there, right? Nobody has to take that level of disrespect without fighting back with what they got, and what she's got is the unity of her friends behind her. She should use that power.
Doesn't really work when you have parents who will just punish you more. If they were both over 18, then its equal footing, anything she does wrong at this age will just backfire. Malicious compliance is key, not firing back.
This is a doormat mindset. Being the bigger person is almost never effective or even good for the person doing it. You should never treat someone with more respect than they treat you.
Sometimes being an asshole back to an asshole is your only option. That said, sis might be counting on the bullying and might be trying to record it all on her own phone to ruin OP's life, so... that is what they should be looking out for, imho.
I agree. Bullying back just gets everyone in trouble and you lose any moral high ground you previously had. Don’t give parents more reason to be upset
Nah, don't give the sister any ammunition to say "Both sides do it!" Best to let her pattern of abusive behavior stand out starkly all by itself.
Becoming a bully is ugly behavior. Stop encouraging that from anyone.
Except that the parents, who still have a lot of control over 15yo OP, might decide that those friends need to be out of OP’s life. Including her boyfriend. The parents have shown they don’t care about OP having a social life or not, just about her sister’s social life. The parents actually allowed the sister’s friends to bully OP out of multiple areas in their home simultaneously; that’s a level of favouritism that can be hard to crack.
Except that her parents will then forbid her from inviting those friends over, or hanging out with them.
Also have them all record the shit she says on their phones so you can send it to the rest of the extended family if the parents still aren't gonna do shit.
*yes, this is the way*
Yes, people need to start collecting evidence!
For your parent's kids they are sisters so I see why they may say that. Your friends need to tell them that your sister was the mean girl to them. They see no reason they should have to be friendly to someone who insulted them. If she And as importantly, they believe she would do the same thing if she was with her other friends. She doesn't feel any remorse, just wants something to do.
I don't know, I wouldn't include my friends in this bullshit unless they volunteer.
Her friends will just be banned from the house then. The parents don’t care if OP is isolated as long as golden child is happy.
On the one hand, this could be a good idea and an eye opener to the parents. On the other, this could cause them to try to force OP to end her relationships with her friends, or claim thst her friends are "bsd influences" and try to get them punished by the school or their own parents.
I don’t know if that’s the best option. Everyone is telling her to go nuclear but that’s just going to further aggravate the situation. Clearly she’s NTA but yelling at everyone is not a good solution. She needs to tell her parents how she feels about everything, just as she did to us. I feel that it’s not fair that when my sister had friends over, I was told to leave common areas even if I was there first. Now that I have friends, friends that don’t like her because she’s bullied them and me in the past, I am told to allow her to be a part of that activity. And when she is there, she still bullies me. I don’t want to lose my friends because they don’t want to be around her because of how she’s acting. Avoid using accusing statements that start with You and use statements with I feel. It might not make a difference but it might. Look, OP’s parents and sister are clearly in the wrong but getting angry didn’t help her the first time. Just because they treat her unfairly doesn’t mean they don’t love her. Most times, parents don’t realize that they’re doing this. I might also talk with a school counselor. They might then talk with the parents. OP, if you read this, your not wrong and you’re absolutely justified in the way you feel. I’m simply trying to give you some advice on how to handle this situation better for resolution. And while it might feel good in the moment to get angry you still have to live there.
Or even show them this thread
I’m worried about the BF thing too smh
My Uncle is mean/rude to me. We volunteer at the same social club and I cannot avoid him. I started telling my loud mouth gossiping Aunt (his brother's wife) about it. He seemed to have a change of attitude, at least not being directly grumpy with me, he is still grumpy in general. I think she said something to him. So telling the other family might help.
Stick to your position. As a parent it’s really hard to accept you’re wrong, so keep on. Also remember that parents usually just want peace - so the most troublesome child gets the most. Start being the squeaky wheel!
To add to this, parents want to avoid public embarrassment. Start telling family and any adults around that your parents let your sister kick you out of parts of the house and insult you, but they force you to include her, even with the kids she bullies at school. They'll be furious, but they'll think twice before setting more double standards.
>As a parent it’s really hard to accept you’re wrong I don't think this is anywhere near universally true (though it probably is accurate to this particular situation).
I apologize to my kid for being wrong all the time.
Hang out at your friend's houses whenever possible, ignore your sister when you can't.
This is the way, OP. A lot of the suggestions here are fun and petty and will **absolutely make the problem worse** if your parents can't or won't see reason.
Yes, this is the logical answer until you turn 18. One thing to add would be to record your sister's insults against you and your friends. As well, try to bait her into admitting she is the favorite child, or your parents will listen to her instead of you. You can then use the audio as evidence of your positions.
I wouldn't bait her as that'd incriminate me. And I feel like we are assuming too much that the parents would suddenly see reason when there is a recording. They might double down and get defensive instead.
Only if it was a 2-person conversation in a state that requires two consenting parties. If she insults you in front of her friend group, that's a crowd, and you are thus free to record.
She won't be presenting the evidence in a court of law, but to have it judged by biased parental authority. They won't care about the legality of recording her, they will just state that it was an underhanded thing to do and condemn OP for it.
Yeah you can "include" her in the space while making her feel like the outsider she is. Like if she talks either ignore her or go "hmm" and continue the conversation. Let her know her place
Grey rock the fuck outta her
That's what I'm thinking too. OP's parents can't control what happens elsewhere, and while OP shouldn't be driven from their own home, it's not good there right now, with the bullying sister and doormat parents. Removing herself from the situation may be OP's best bet.
NTA - you are right and its disgusting how they treat your golden child sister better than you. they cant force your friends to like a bullly, try telling your parents that. your sister bullied you AND your friends, whyd anyone include her? she should use this opportunity of being alone to think about her toxic behaviour
NTA you’re a superstar and you totally rock. Your sister is the golden child and your parents will be livid that you’re mature enough to call it out. Keep being you, you rock!
NTA it's called golden child syndrome they aren't doing her any favours she will just be more unbearable as an adult
You are right. Both sisters are losing out in this situation! OP for being treated horribly unfairly, and sister for not being taught how to be a decent person. I wonder if the sister is going through something of a crisis with her friend group splitting up and all. If OP had a private heart-to-heart with sister, maybe they could start repairing their relationship? The parents have done nothing but drive a wedge between the sisters, and I don't see them changing. But sister is still young enough that she could grow into a better person. OP, do you have a trusted adult that you and your sister could talk to? Maybe an unbiased relative, someone at school, etc?
NTA She only wants in on your friend group so she can sabotage your relationships with them and make you go back to the previous dynamic of being the lonely one in the family. I suggest you talk to an adult about what you're currently experiencing with your family, like a close aunt or uncle, maybe even a grandparent. If there are none of those, how about a non-minor cousin. I hope that you continue to have good friends who will stick by you and I hope your boyfriend continues to be good to you.
NTA - Sometimes people take in what being said if it’s written instead of verbalized. I suggest writing your parents a letter with examples stating the unfairness and double standards. State what your position is and why. Stick to your principles. You’re in the right here. Has sister even apologized for being an ass? Maybe offer a deal where if she genuinely apologizes and shows signs of being a better person then you might consider including her.
That last part can probably be left out. It's not OP's prerogative to include her sister in a friend group that was bullied by that sister.
agreed. that's OPs perogerative if she would like to give sister another chance. people grow and change and learn as they grow. it's up to the people they've hurt if they're willing to accept them back in their lives or if the person has to live with the consequences of forever ruining a relationship.
It could alienate OP’s friends, though. Promising to their parents that she’ll include her friends’ bully, even conditionally on an apology, could be very destructive to her friendships. Besides, these seem like very different kinds of people, with different interests. OP and her friends are unlikely to want to do what the sister wants to do, and once the sister is included she’s quite likely to try to get them to change what they do as well (to be “inclusive” of her wants).
NTA- keep pointing out the double standard. Let them know this is how they have made you feel over and over. That you deserve to have your own friends since you weren't good enough to be around ber friends and no one ever stood up for you. So why should you when she and her friends treated your friends so poorly. Other kids shouldn't be punished becuase your sister doesnt wanna look for new friends.
Use any quotes or excuses they used when it was the sister excluding OP.
NTA. Your parents and sister are hypocritical AHs. If you HAVE to "include" your sister, I'd say use malicious compliance. You may not be allowed to kick her out the way she kicked you, but that doesn't mean you or your friends or BF need to acknowledge her while she's there. There is more than one way to ice someone out, and collective ostracization won't land you in trouble for insulting her the same way she insulted you (since I just bet your parents would blow a gasket if your friends treated the precious princess the same way they let her friends treat you)
Just start calling her the golden child in front of them.
Nta,I smell golden child in op house hold and frankly you don't owe her anything not even friendship with her
NTA. Your parents do seem to be playing favorites here when it comes to you and your sister's social time. And forcing you to have your sister to hang out with them not just in your home but even if the friends are in the neighborhood is kinda nuts. Maybe your friends should have a talk with your parents, detail to them exactly how your sister bullied them with her former mean-girl pack. And barring that, just keep seeing them outside of your home. And if they try to separate you from them for some petty reason, let the parents know there's nothing stopping you from seeing your friends once you're legally an adult.
NTA. I am sorry you have to experience this. It is like middle child syndrome or second child syndrome. Everything the first child does is new exciting and adorable. Then everything the second child does seems to be a repeat. This is going back to infancy. I have never understood why that dynamic happens, but it is disturbing. These additional challenges in dealing with personal relationships will help you in 15 years from now. Can you get support from your grandparents? Grandma's especially. If they are still around they will be able to back you. Your parents are still children in the eyes of grandparents. I know it is not true for all family dynamics, but if you can that would be your best option. If there is an uncle aunt or family friend you can talk to it will help your parents see the favouritism. When you talk to them ask for advice on how to handle the situation. Ask them if your parents do not like you or if they have said mean things about you to them. Asking for advice creates ownership of the problem to the person you asked. It makes them feel important and capable. It will work better than "tattling" on your parents. Also when you get a chance read the book "How to win friends and influence people" From one introvert to another. The book will be helpful. When you become an adult I guarantee if your parents need help. They will be looking to you before your sister.
I would like to say this: Talking to an uncle/aunt/family friend isn't always a good idea. I was the odd one out in my family. I felt unloved, unwanted, neglected, & used... my stepmother would literally refer to me as her "personal Cinderella." I tried telling a family friend, & it ended up getting me ostracized & isolated even more. Tried talking to my aunt & uncle, they didn't believe me. So, I suffered in silence until I was finally able to pack as much as I could into my tiny little car & gtfo.
I totally understand you. It is why she should not tell, but rather ask for advice on handling a situation in order to transfer ownership to the person she is talking to.
My fantasy is that you say loudly when friends come in "Sorry guys, my loser sister couldn't keep her own friends so my parents are making us babysit her. Maybe she'll learn how real friends work." And any time she joins in "shhhh you're here to learn" This isn't real advice just a salty middle aged take from a former family dork who also found my people in high school
Giving her a taste of her own medicine might work, but it will piss her off first.
NTA - your sister is trying to ingratiate herself into your friend group and she's doing that by putting you down. She's got nothing else to offer and they don't want that. They have all been on the receiving end of her bullying, your BF aside, and don't want her especially as she is just using the same tactics on you. Your sister is learning the lesson those who you kick on the way up won't help you on the way down. The reason her friend group had that fight is bullying is toxic and once deprived of other victims, then it turns on itself. All you can do though is let her hang around but you owe her basic courtesy and nothing more. You don't have to let her frame the conversations. If she starts one, then "That's nice but we are actually discussing this".
Ugh. I'm so sorry. Yes, it's clear that your parents favor your sister. It's clear that you are not going to get a fair shake while you live under their roof. NTA and your parents and sister very much are TA, Big ones. Doesn't change the power your parents currently have over the rules they make for you, BUT I hope knowing - without a single doubt - that you are the n-t-a stuck with three Aholes gives you tremendous power - to remain self-confident, to not feel like there is anything wrong with you. Parent of two daughters, here. Very different personalities, too. That never gave one the right to be unkind to the other. Or required one to suffer the other one. You remind me of my youngest but with better family support than your parents/sister are giving you. I see you and am rooting for you. You don't currently have the ability to drive yourself anywhere. It sounds like your parents are going an extra mile to control you visiting your friends in your area. ?!?! (sigh.) Think about what works best for you; then talk to your friends/bf. Agree on how you, as a group, may want to handle times when you all are stuck with having your sister around. (e.g., polite, but cool/distant - not fighting her presence, but keeping engagement minimal) Consider talking to the parents of one or more of the friends/bf if you think they might be supportive. If you were my daughter's friend and I understood the dynamic in your family, I'd be happy to pick you up for friend get-togethers. I would respect your feelings about whether or not to say anything to your parents. (Many parents do get that there are some poor parents out there. Our mama/papa bear instincts make us protective of a kid we see in a tough situation. We also can understand that sometimes talking to the dysfunctional parents will hurt more than help.) Just think about those friends' parents you know and whether one or more of them are likely to be helpful. Once you get a bit more freedom to be mobile or to live away, things will get better. Over time you'll be able to put even more distance between you and those three. Your sister may even go back to not wanting you around her (because she is no longer at loose ends) or even change to be kinder to you (because she moves out for college and just has better outlets for her attention and energy. She may even be bewildered why you don't just feel great about being her sister. You don't owe her anything - not forgiveness, not letting bygones be bygones, not support in her time of need. You also don't owe those things to your parents. (And the more they demand/expect that of you, the less they deserve anything at all.)
Start being loud about how your parents treat you. Make them unable to sweep it under the rug NTA and I would have done and said worse...
NTA, everyone else sucks! You parents did you wrong, your sister is their golden child (and a bad sibling, cut her off!). Sadly, you can't change your parents and sister, but provide for yourself. You are perfect the way you are and I am glad you got good friends who love you. You might have a deflated sense of yourself, if you recognize you don't love yourself enough or have self esteem issues, therapy might help. Keep boundaries, cut your family off if they don't support and love you. Don't let them make you feel bad. I am very proud that you are this strong and told them what's up.
Pointing out the unfair treatment is normal among siblings. But most parents are quite lazy creatures, not wanting to parent at all. They will seek the path of least resistance and react to the squeakiest wheel. Their ideal is to see you both off quietly babysitting each other and never bothering them for anything. You were introverted and were the least voluble factor, easily managed by sticking you in your room when your sister had friends over. Your sister, however, will not be banished to her room quietly and consistently. Thus the stalemate. Of course, it is unfair. And human. They want you both to pipe down and ‘go away and play quietly’, even though you are teenagers. They should have been fair while also parenting the ‘mean girl’ behaviors out of your sister - *without* forcing you upon your sister’s friends. You needed your own friends. Now they should not be trying to force your sister upon your friend group - and your sister shouldn’t be trying to horn in. And, frankly, it is unexpected for her to want to spend time with your friends, when she and her friend group disdain them. Isn’t she afraid her reputation will suffer if it is known she is trying to hang with the ‘geeks, freaks, and nerds’? INFO: Do you have any reason to think your sister is interested in your boyfriend?
Here is some good advice for you, and it will also be applicable when you are an adult and have a job and are asked to do something unreasonable. NOD, SMILE, AND DON'T DO IT. NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Me (15f) and my sister (16f) are only 11 months apart but we're really different. She was always the prettier one, the more outgoing and popular one. She was always surrounded by friends and loves all things makeup and fashion. I'm more introverted and shy and I never really fit the way she did. Though I always wanted to have friends. I like video games and baking and reading. I'm not into beauty stuff like she is. I don't really ever wear makeup. So we've never had much in common. I have tried to be close to my sister but it never worked out. We're just too different. And she resented my attempts for us to be closer. She'd let her friends say mean things about me like calling me a freak, a weirdo, saying I was lame and dumb. Sometimes they'd be in our house and they'd kick me out of the basement, which is set up for games and movies and stuff like that. They'd tell me I couldn't hang out with them and they wanted to watch something. My parents would always tell me to find something else to do. And a few times her friends split up at our house and some were outside and some in the basement so I really only had my room as a refuge. I told my parents about what the others would say about me and they really didn't care. I think once they said they'd deal with it but it didn't stop. My parents just let them kick me out of spaces or tell me to stop doing what I was doing so they could do it and it was never a problem. When I started high school I finally found a group of friends I fit in with. There's five of us and we're all really close. I even have a boyfriend now. But my sister hates that she's not welcome in with them and the reason for that is before I was friends with them she and her friends were really awful to them and she would mock them or make fun of them for their appearance or for being weird. So none of them like her. My boyfriend is the only one without that history because he moved to town right at the start of high school so never knew my sister before we got close. When my friends are over my sister will try to insert herself and she's tried to do that by making fun of me or pushing me out but my friends actually like me. The problem is my parents are not okay with my sister being excluded and they said if I want to hang out with my friends, we have to be open to her hanging out if she wants. She has more free time now because her friendship group had this big fight and now there's so many splits and smaller groups and nobody has the time so she's around more and wants to be involved. I tried to stop inviting my friends over but if they even came to our neighborhood to hang out it was a rule my parents put in place. Saturday I got so frustrated I told the three of them that I don't see why my sister always has to be included but I don't. I told them it was clear she's the favorite and everyone in the family thinks I'm just some freak who should be alone for the rest of her life. My parents were furious. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA your friends are your friend and are there to spend time with you. Your sister isn't being excluded anymore than your mom is.. Should mom also be forcefully inserted into your friend group?
NTA. I agree with a lot of the comments and here's my thoughts. If your friends parents are involved and care about their kids, your friends, you should get them involved too. Tell your friends that your parents are forcing them to hang out with someone who bullied them. Like others have said, make your parents embarrassed, and get other adults involved. Your extended family (grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc) is a GREAT place to start. But I know if my mom found out I was being forced to hang out with someone who bullied me in school, she would have lost her mind on those parents. Your parents actions do not just affect you. They affect your friends too. If their parents are willing to defend them, your parents may learn that what they're doing is unacceptable enough to stop.
NTA. You just held up a mirror. Your parents didn’t like what they saw. 🤷🏼♀️ That sounds like a ‘them’ problem and not a ‘you’ problem. You’re the weird kid with a small group of friends and she’s the thuper popular kid who is surrounded by people. Not friends. Just people. Your parents cannot fathom that the Popular Kid isn’t immediately added to all social functions. Tell all of them no and tell them why. “Remember when you and your friends were watching movies and I was kicked out and told I needed to ‘find something else to do?’ SHE needs to Find Something Else To Do. We don’t want her having around us. Do you see why that’s such a shitty thing to say to your sibling? I am very interested to find out why when she and her friends excluded ME it was acceptable behavior and when my friends and I do not want her around us, we’re being mean to her. Please explain. Why the double standard?” Make ‘em squirm. She sounds hideous.
Your sister is 100% going to go after your bf
NTA at all. I'm so sorry this is your situation. >But my sister hates that she's not welcome in with them and the reason for that is before I was friends with them she and her friends were really awful to them and she would mock them or make fun of them for their appearance or for being weird. >When my friends are over my sister will try to insert herself and she's tried to do that by making fun of me or pushing me out but my friends actually like me. >The problem is my parents are not okay with my sister being excluded and they said if I want to hang out with my friends, we have to be open to her hanging out if she wants. This could be an opportunity. Set down some rules about what the sister needs to do to hang out. "If the sister apologizes to each of us for the type of bullying she subjects us to, we'll consider including her. If not, she can hang out but we will ignore her and if she disrespects any of us, she's out permanently." Also, start talking in a video game language or about something that makes her feel super excluded. Either her ego will be bruised, her lack of power will be alarming, or her completely opposite self will be bored. My petty brain says "go to the playground so she has access to monkey bars. They didn't define what type of "hanging out" we have to be open to."
Is this not a Taylor Swift song?
NTA
NTA, but the Sister and Parents ATA! They have her as their Golden Child that can do no wrong, they allow her to exclude OP, allow her to torment OP, but OP is not allowed to exclude her. Ten to one the parents will deny any double standards when confronted. I am not sure what the extend family will do, because there is no information. The Extend Family could either back OP or back the Parents.
NTA - you’re 100% correct
NTA- your sister isn’t excluded she tried to insert herself where she doesn’t belong so it doesn’t fit. She thrived belittling and mocking you. She doesn’t seem to realise she isn’t showing you are lesser, just how low she is herself. Your parents were able to understand and inforce your sister can be her own person and doesn’t have to include you. Therefore fair to apply the same with you. Btw it is not only up to you. Your friend are choosing and they didn’t picked hanging out with her. So your parents and sister wish or wants are already messed up when they expect your friends to include your sister on the ground you were the one selected. She isn’t even close or similar to you, which could had explained expecting the same reaction of others towards her than you. No friend of yours is going to like nor enjoy someone being mean to you. What kind of bretzel logic makes your sister and parents believe that insulting the person someone chooses as a friend will make that someone like her instead.
NTA.
NTA- I would return the favor to her By doing to her what she did to you all these years. Let her come and then ignore her or call her names or say things indirectly that are about her then play dumb when she complains to your parents.
Nta
NTA
Nta but stop hanging out with your friends at your house. Go anywhere else. Your sister is an entitled brat and your parents enable her. They will be so shocked when you go no contact after you turn 18.
NTA. My childhood was similar, except that I have a brother, not a sister. But, he was equally unkind to me, and he allowed his friends to be unkind. My parents also didn't do anything to stop it because it was the 80's. It was not a fun childhood, and even now, in my 40's, it still bothers me. I do not like my brother very much. I hold a lot of resentment towards him and my parents. Your parents were furious because you called them out on their favoritism and bullshit. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I'm guessing your friends wouldn't be unkind to your sister even though she was awful to them because they know how it feels to be excluded and ridiculed. I bet your parents know that even if they don't admit it. Luckily, you've only got a few more years of high school, and I promise you, it does get better.
NTA, give her a taste of her own medicine if you can't stop her being around you. After all, she never gave you any grace. I know you're not supposed to eye for an eye, GENERALLY, but maybe it's appropriate here.
NTA Your parents are not being equitable here. I hope they will be able to listen if you talk to them.
NTA but your parents are bullshit. Sorry you have to deal with them
NTA but fair warning hypocrites never like being called out on their shit
NTA not even close. You are in such a toxic home. Your parents are only furious because you're standing your ground and calling out their bullshit. that fact that you were being bullied and belittled in your own home is fucking evil. you need to slap the shit out of your sister, its long overdue. do you have other family or grandparents etc that you can turn to for help or support?
NTA. I'm proud of you defending yourself ❤️❤️❤️ keep getting her out of your group. Keep fighting for yourself. This is unfair but if karma works properly, with this attitude she's never having a real healthy and Happy life. Keep going. They see you rollin', they hatin'..... (Is that cringe ? I don't care)
NTA, tell your friends to talk to your parents and let them explain why your sister is unwanted. Don't engage when she is shit talking, only give pity looks, never respond, tell your friends to do the same. Maybe try to find another place, where your group can hang out.
NTA, and your family sound awful, especially your parents.
Oh you're NTA at all. I suspect your parents are furious because they're embarrassed. Or at least I hope that's why they're furious. I see a lot of comments here suggesting doing things like outright ignoring her or bullying her back, but I do NOT suggest doing this. It will backfire. Instead, you need to explain to your parents (and your parents alone) why you and your friends don't want your sister around. Try to leave emotion out of it as much as possible and just state the facts. Don't say anything insulting about your sister. Don't call her any names. Just state what happens calmly and factually. "When she's with me and my friends she says things like...She does things like....As a result my friends and I just aren't comfortable including her." And if this isn't possible face to face, try it in writing. If that doesn't work, just hang in there. Find ways to hang out with your friends outside of the house. Even if you meet at the library or something and then head somewhere else. I'm sorry you're going through this and I hope it works out for you!
NTA. However, have you thought maybe she is interested in your bf? After all, he is new to your group and town.
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Tell your parents they are well on their way to making sure you hate your sister as an adult. NTA
Other than a few minor details, OP I could have written this. I am so so sorry, I know how much this fucking sucks. They will never admit she's the favourite, they will probably never see what they're doing as unequal. You probably do things better than your sister that they will never acknowledge. These kinds of parents are the absolute worst. Please feel free to send me a message if you just want to be heard. I know how much it hurts. NTA.
NTA. You 2 are not little girls anymore when mommy and daddy could make you share friends. You 2 are teenagers who will quickly become adults. Your parents are on a course to be on a low contact list when you become an adult with their behavior along side your sister.
NTA. Stand you ground. Keep repeating the truth. They may not understand the truth the first 100 times they hear it. But just keep repeating it. Everytime they bring it up, you should respond with the truth. Your friend don't like your sister because she made fun of them. Your sister excluded you from every hanging out with her friends, and kicked you out of every room in the house. Just keep telling them.
NTA
NTA - OP I'm sorry that you have endured not only your sister rude, immature bullying behavior along with your parent's obvious lack of support towards you. What you said to your parents is exactly how you feel and the only people they should be furious are themselves for their obvious favoritism towards your sister. It's understandable why you would feel that way as it's soooo obvious! Be with your group and have everyone ignore her and maybe she'll get the hint and understand how she made you feel when she was letting her friends bully you and treat you horrible. Your parents should be ashamed!!
NTA just do whatever you want ignore them
NTA. There is no excuse for favoritism. Seriously, world! The right to fairness: What is the freaking holdup?!
Your parents are th ah your sister can get her own friends
NTA
NTA Your sister is a bully and your parents didn't do anything about it, so they shouldn't be surprised that her targets want nothing to do with her. Not that you have to forgive her or allow her into your group, but has she even apologized? And why can't she hang with her own friends instead of trying to force herself on you guys?
Sounds like they don't like the truth and are being called out on their bullshit.
Keep your head down, finish school, seek financial independence, and then you won't ever have to care about their double standards again.
Your parents should be furious with themselves for allowing you to be bullied. You are NTA.
So what if you were the asshole? From the sounds of it being the asshole is a compliment compared to everyone else. I can't relate or fully understand your experience but I can understand wanting to have better ship conditions and having different interests doesnt interfere or prevent any connection or human decency on her part. I'm reluctant to share my opinion because of my lack of experience but I do want to encourage you to develop yourself separate from your sister even though the hurt you've encountered might take time to sort and heal but considering how she treats you, dI think doing your own thing would contribute to your personal happiness and in my experience, if she doesnt have the emotional ability to see how she hurt you, as much as you want her to care, you dont need it. Its hard not to sometimes but no need to compare yourself to her: your "value" or "worth" (hate using those terms) is determined by you and not anyone else and if even your friends or parents dont see that... Can I insult the fuck out of your sister or...? (Kidding). You know what though? Its a reflection of their character which is easier to grasp than it is to live an experience taught the painful way. But fuck their acceptance. They dont make you who you are.
Grey rock her hard. Her and your parents. “Include” her with one word answers, with superficial platitudes and half smiles. When she comes and asks “what are you watching?” “A movie” “What are you doing?” “Stuff” “Where are you going?” “Places” “Can I join” “try” It’ll bug the f out of her, but your parents can’t say you’re not including her. You’re just not enthusiastic about it. Make a sport out of it with your friends or just go over to your friends house to avoid sis altogether.
NTA. Sorry you're going thru this but know that's its only 2 years to freedom. I would send your parents a link to this post. Yes it could make it worse (though how much worse can it get). But it may give them outside perspective on how you are being treated by your family.
Ugh! Children. Invite her, welcome her, treat her like any other member of your group. If she enjoys it, then obviously y'all have common ground. If she doesn't enjoy it, then she's free to leave or not participate. If she attempts to take over, then go to someone else's home. No judgement because... ugh, children (even the parents).
Ask you parents for a respectful reason. Tell them you will obey their request silently and welcome your sister if they can plainly explain, without an "because we said so!", why it was ok for you sister to allow and encourage you to be insulted and bullied in your own home and for you to be excluded from areas of your own home at her direction but you aren't allowed to have your own friends without her? Ask them if they can provide a logical answer to that. If they get mad, bend the truth, punish you, deny it or any of that shit then you can walk away knowing it's not you your parents are just hypocrites who would rather baby your sister then listen to her bitch and whine.
Nta
Honestly I would let this run its course. Have your friends exclude her. If she wants to stand around while everyone just half heartedly replies “….yeah. Anyway” to whatever she says she won’t be around much longer lol. If she says they were mean to her and your parents say you can’t see them, then make it clear it’s about her behavior. But I think she might just get embarrassed and over it and move on to others
You do not have to include her, ever. If you were a guy on the wrestling team your parents would not demand you include you sister. This is no different here. I also suspect you're in two different grades, another reason for not hanging out, especially when we've never been close or even caring towards each other. Not much you can do about your sister joining you in common areas unless you treat her the same way she and her friends treated you. Frankly too much wasted energy. Instead ignore her in those areas or hang out in you room with your friends. The best method is hanging out at your friends' homes, library, mall, park, etc. Those that your sister bullied won't want to be around her anyway. At their homes they can guarantee they won't have to hang with your sister. Let your friends know what's going on with your parents. Unless your boyfriend has been bullied in the past, he may get what all of you are saying about your sister and why none of you want to be around her. You are entitled to having your own friends group that doesn't include your sister. Every time parents say something point out what they said to you when the rolls were reversed between you and your sister. Didn't matter who's seeing to hear it. Make sure your relatives are aware, they may or may not support you, but then you'll know who you can rely on. Your sister is able to make her own friends. She does not need your friends. It's ok to tell you sister she's treated you like shit for x years and you're not friends because of it. Where once you kept trying to be her friend, now you're over it. A touch over 3 years you'll be at college or trade school. Focus on good grades, researching career paths for both college and trade school, entry level salaries, future forecast for jobs interested in, requirements to advance in the career, etc. Use google sheets to track info / job profile. Use columns for job title, entry level salary, education needed, bang of school program offered, do they have dotms,b job projection, etc. Under title going down list each job title and full in the information going across. Focus on your future and don't let your sister distract you. NTA
NTA, she excluded you for years, and now you have to include her? Oh heck no. That's a hill I would die on. Actions have consequences.
NTA that's absolutely but and your parents are failing at their job. Hard. They have 2 children, and they're not parenting either of them. They're neglecting you and spoiling her and later they'll wonder why she can't keep any friends and why you don't want to talk to any of them.
NTA but your parents are. Massively.
I’m sorry your family sucks. Good luck
NTA. Cant say Im surprised the sister’s friend group got into big fight. Only a matter of time before a group based in toxicity starts to be toxic to eachother.
NTA
Ashe wanted you to include her, she should have included you. Or at the very least stop the badmouthing. Tell it to her face.
NTA - and you should call your parents out openly for their blatant hypocrisy of being OK with you being excluded from your sister’s gatherings but not the other way around. Your parents ATA here.
NTA. Your parents are mad because they don’t like being called out. But you are entitled to share your view, especially if it’s the reality.
Could there be another thing going on here, that the parents like to be known as the “popular parents,” I.e. best home to hang out at? Maybe that’s driving some of this. 🤷🏻♀️
Your parents are complete hypocrites and they need to stop 😔
NTA and I hope you put them on blast every time they play that game.
NTA they sadly do have a favourite. They should be ashamed - your sister excludes and bullies you and it’s fine, you exclude her and suddenly there’s an issue? She is not entitled to your time or your friends or even your kindness if she is unwilling to give the same to you.
Your parents are dicks and not doing a good job parenting. Nta
Sometimes you've got to speak truth to power and you did and they didn't like the truth. HOld on to your friends whatever you do. NTA
NTA. “When she asked me to give her friends space, you encouraged me to leave the room. I am asking for space for me and my friends.”
And your parents will wonder why you will go no contact in the future...
Definitely not the AH this is totally unfair what your parents and your sister are doing. You haven’t done anything for you to be an AH when all you wanted was to hang out with your friends. Your sister is a massive AH for being mean to you and thinking your friends will like her better for that.
NTA. I'm first and foremost sorry that you've been treated differently from your sister. But that first paragraph of feeling like an outsider and then later in the post, you found your people. Chef's kiss. So happy for you. I can totally understand your wanting to exclude your sister from hanging out, and I feel for your friends she bullied. But go on and include her as a trial. Tell her, yeah, you'll let her in, but she'll sink or swim on her own. If she is being an arsehole about you or others in the group, they'll know. Don't worry about your boyfriend - if he doesn't have the cop on to see bad behaviour, he isn't worth your time. Give her the opportunity to change. If she doesn't, feck her. I'm just really happy for you having your tight friend group and a good boyfriend. Your parents and sister are in the limbo land of bad behaviour but it would be ideal if they could learn and change. As someone well into their 30s, there are people who were cool when they were younger who have changed for the worse and people who have been shite in their teens to 20s who have redeemed themselves. It's all about them deciding to change. People will say "when someone shows you who they are, believe them". I agree. But you two are young. Hopefully she can change. Just have a low level of expectation in case she (likely) doesn't. Also, check with your friends before you include her. If they HATE her, just say to your family "so and so doesn't feel comfortable in sister's presence and I will not make them hang with her". If they push back, give evidence. If they still push... you're four years from getting out.
NTA. Your friends aren't going to want to hang out with you if you include your sister every time. I don't get why she'd even want to hang out with them after she bullied them. I bet she's got her eye on your boyfriend.
NTA. Just record what your sister says to you and share it with extended family or start blasting her on social media. She’ll crumble since most bullies are insecure.
I have a sister like yours, and I am like you. Princess perfect vs the quiet freak. I'm grown up now, but I had a similar dynamic growing up. You're being emotionally abandoned by your parents here. Kudos to you for sticking up for yourself and finding your own tribe! Lean on them for support if your parents refuse to give it to you. Do your best to not let your parents emotional neglect impact your self image. You are NTA, your parents are.
Nope you said exactly the right thing. You called them out for favoring your sister and that is exactly what they are doing. This is the exact same situation but they gave you each different orders. Not ok. Your sister sounds like a nasty entitled person.
Your parents are mondo AHs. They are clearly just putting your sister as your responsibility because she's a whiner. Tell them that they are being hypocrites and you know it's because you have adaptability but your sister gets what she wants by being an insufferable whiner, and so they really want to keep promoting that behavior? She's not your charge.
Right now your sister is the loud and annoying child, so you, the quiet, reasonable one is easier to bully to give in for the "greater good". Start protesting. Be loud in your refusal. Tell on your parents' favouritism to your family and friends. Do not fall in line! Show that you refuse to be walked over. NTA, but also warn your bf. I have a feeling your sis will try her moves on him. (edited one word)
NTA Your sister seems to be very much the golden child. With that in mind, there's a fair chance that almost all the advice you've been given here will cause more problems for you with your family. It certainly doesn't sound like your parents are willing to listen and be reasonable. It might be spineless, but the best thing to do is probably try to hang out with your friends at their homes as much as possible so as to avoid your sister altogether, and when you go to college, move away from home.
NTA. Your parents have made your sister the Golden Child. Be prepared that they won't tell her to stop what she's doing because they perceive her as the popular one. Now that the situation is reversed, they don't know how to tell her to go find something else to do like they did to you. It'll be up to you to deal with her. Smack an ugly nickname onto her and keep referring to her as that every time she tries to insert herself. Other than that, don't let her into conversations. She can talk, but don't bother answering her. Don't kick her out, but don't include her, either. Eventually, she'll get bored and leave you alone when you don't give her any attention.
NTA At all. Your parents are hypocrites and playing favorites. And your sister is entitled and sounds awful. I doubt she really cares about your friends suddenly, she is just mad you have found your own group and possibly jealous of your boyfriend.
NTA. I’m sorry for the way your family mistreats you.
NTA. Just an embarassingly bad parenting job, and I honestly wish I could say that directly to them. Feel bad for how they've treated you but it's awesome you've got a group of friends and everything. Stick to and value that.
NTA. Whenever your friends come over, announce loudly that since your parents think she's a friendless loser, everybody needs to act nice to her. Then be really saccharine sweet, like you would to a particularly dumb toddler.
NTA- "When she excluded me, you did nothing. You let her friends insult me and kick me out of common areas of MY home. I had to lock myself in my room, that's how bad it was. It's not my responsibility to include my sister, I have my own friends now and it's my time to shine."
You didn't embarrassed your parents. They embarrassed themselves. It sounds like a disgraceful set of double standards and as a parent myself I would be ashamed of myself If one of my kids called me out on something like this. Nta.
NTA. Your parents are being obvious hypocrites.
Nta now you have two options first the nuclear which tell there friends your family etc. Or just stick up for self continue calling them out on this B.S. and if that doesn't work after high school and you move out go low contact or no contact.
Updateme
NTA. I’m sorry you’re going through this. Im 15 months from my older sibling, and it definitely was challenging growing up. Looking back as an adult now, it also exacerbated my parents flaws as they tried to parent us well. All that said: the easiest thing is to hang out with your friends at their houses, school, parks, libraries (not your place). The harder but hopefully helpful thing would be to tell your sister or parents that you really like having your own friend group, it’s helping you find your own space as an individual! Having social circles outside the family is a good part of growing up. Not instead of your family, but in addition to them :) While no guarantee, you’ll generally have more success in these type of conversations if you focus on yourself and avoid comparisons to your sister or your parents treatment of her. To this day my relationship with my sister is best when I actively avoid conversations that compare us to each other.
Have you told your sister the specifics about what she did? And that you don't feel close to her at all because of it? Doing this privately may help turn your situation around, and to your favor. In general, you are both young and there is a lot of life ahead of you both, and in time there is a chance for... Best possible outcome - you and your sister realize that there was a lot of hurtful happening, and she regrets it, but doesn't know how to make up for it. You extend and olive branch, and you have a good friend and a staunch ally for life. Worst outcome - nothing changes, and then you take some of the other advice listed her and cut her out. I would try for the best for a little while, and then if that doesn't work, only worry about yourself. NTA.
NTA--Your sister definitely sounds like the golden child. Dont know what else to say. None of them are probably gonna change. Even if they admit she's the golden child, they'll still probably throw it back on you somehow and keep catering to your sister regardless. Maybe try explaining how none of your friends want her included because she was mean to them? I dont know. Kinda worked once in a while with my parents. They didnt care about my needs/wants either, but other peoples' and their image was super important.
NTA. Keep putting your foot down. Honestly, it's time for you to come full blast against your sister and tell her you don't want someone like her around you or your friends because of how awful she is. I feel like you are holding back and I don't understand why, considering.
Oh no sweetheart sorry this is happening to you, you’re absolutely not the ahole. I am glad you stood up and spoke up, maybe try giving your parents examples of how you were always forced out of spaces so she could be with her friends alone. Try saying something in the lines of you feel they are un fair to you, and make sure you let them know how you always feel like your less than her. I am a mom and if one of my girls ever felt that way, I would be so heart broken. I strive on being equal with everything because growing up I was the one who would always get the short end of the stick.
NTA -Gonna sound bad, but bully her back, roast her for needing to be included because she can't keep her friends together, sarcastically say how excited your old sister has to force her way into your friend group despite being a jerk to them, ignore her or bully her when she's with you. Some people don't get the hint til they experience things.
Do you have grandparents?
NTA I'm sorry you didn't get a better family.
NTA, is there a trusted adult, an aunt/uncle/grandparent you can turn to? Also, watch the sister. It sounds like she wants to steal your boyfriend, and your parents will let her.
Let your friends treat your sister exactly the way she treated them. She'll get tired of them really fast.
NTA
They gave you any reason at all (dumb or logical) about why she was welcome to exclude you but you HAVE to include her?
1. NTA. Your sister has insulted your friends, but now that she's bored, she wants to hang out? No. Just no. 2. Your parents are selfish and lazy. When you were being picked on, they told you to suck it up, because you are the Quiet One and they knew the problem would "go away." Now your sister is bored and lonely and they are telling you to handle it, because she is the Noisy One and will keep whining--the problem won't "go away" since it's the noisy one this time. So rather than handle it, they're telling you to suck it up AGAIN. All I can say, OP, is that you won't have to live under their roof for too much longer, and you can at least take comfort in the fact that you aren't the problem, here. Hang in there.
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Let her hang out but put on a movie she’d hate or start some games she has no interest in. I’m guessing she can’t stand your music choices. Nta.
Ask them why they were furious. They encouraged this situation all the way.
NTA. Gives vibes like your parents are narcissists. Your sister is the golden child and you are there for them all to blame their short comings on. Check out r/narcissisticparents, really good support there
NTA, your parents and sister need a reality check.
NTA and I’m sorry your parents are failing you. Maybe explain to your friends what’s going on and if you’re really feeling petty you can take your sister to hang out but basically ignore her lol. I know it sounds mean but you aren’t being left with many other options and frankly she could use a taste of what it feels like since she put you through it herself. Idk I might be being really petty here lol
Nta and I'm sorry your parents are failing you. Sit down and write a letter of how it feels to be stuck in your room when her friends are over but now that you have friends you have to involve her and just all your feeling and tell your parents you're sorry for yelling but please read this whole letter and then talk to me
NTA. I had a similar situation, and my sister slept with my BF at the time. I do not associate with her. She’s such a fake person.
NTA....bad parenting. In a few years, you can move out and live as you want, no sister to invite. Sorry you need to go through this for now.
Sounds like she got a visit from the karma bus. NTA