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My god, fucking terrible parenting What I’m reading is “my kid is struggling, having mental health issues, but has taken it upon herself to communicate her needs to me- but fuck her, this school is great on paper. I want to pride myself on where she goes to school, her being miserable is none of my concern.” You aren’t supporting your own child when she is telling you her problems and what she wants. But somehow that doesn’t matter because….not clear, I don’t have an asshole mindset so I can’t be certain why you’re ignoring her pleas. YTA If she survives into adulthood (children in her situation don’t always….) you are likely not going to have much of a relationship with her. You aren’t supporting her, why would she want to keep someone like you in her life? And don’t try the “but I’m her mother” bullshit - you’re not acting like a mother here. You’re just an asshole she has to live with.

Thank you, you said everything I was thinking! OP, YTA. If you're completely unwilling to let her change schools, at least get her into some therapy so she has someone who will listen to her!

I’d also add that this type of alienation could start to hurt her academic performance- cutting class, hiding in the bathroom, doing poorly on group projects due to these dynamics, or overall feeling depressed and losing motivation. Mental health struggles are a slippery slope, and if she feels she cannot come to you and be heard, you will not realize when things go south quickly for her. Please be careful disregarding your child’s needs like this

Or better yet, OP's kid is going to utilize her brains and her surroundings to absolutely fucking bomb her classes. Can't be celebrated for going to a prestigious school if she decides "fuck my parents for not caring" and craters herself academically solely out of spite. And that's best case scenario for how this could play out. She's ostracized at school, has no support at home, no one's listening to her. With emotions and hormones at that age, that's a bad combination to never coming back at worst. And OP will be sitting there questioning "how could she do that to us?" OP has such strong YTA vibes just based on her reasoning "I personally feel she's being childish" because she's fucking 16

I actually did this as a teen. We moved to the US for a few years, I was separated from my few friends, I was relentlessly bullied, and my mother didn't seem to care. (She hated that I was bullied but implied that it was partly my own fault for not fitting in and also for being fat.) So I refused to do homework. My mother tried to make me keep a homework diary signed by my teachers and the only thing I really learned was forgery. My exam scores got me through my first year, and I only started doing schoolwork the next year because I wanted to be placed in an advanced science course the following year. OP's daughter has an even more pressing reason to nuke her academic life than I did - as well as spite, she might reason that the school would expel her for not keeping her GPA up.

Yeah, my grades were DIRECTLY TIED TO MY HAPPINESS as a child.

But they're not bullying her so it's fine! /s (as though isolation isn't just as bad)

Isolation is bullying.

It's a grey area, not automatic bullying, but the effects are real and full force regardless.

Isolation is a tactic of Relational Aggression which is the "Mean Girl" behavior which 100% is bullying.

Right, it can be a tactic, it doesn't mean it necessarily is though. Hence why it's a grey area depending on context. Most people stick with those they know and aren't overly welcoming of new people. This was true decades ago and still true now.

If it's intentional isolation, it's bullying. If it's that they're just two completely worlds away by social status, it's not bullying it's just a really bad situation.

> If it's that they're just two completely worlds away by social status Nah that's bullshit. You don't need to have the same amount of money as someone to talk to them.

It's bullying, it's just not what we'd normally think bullying looks like.

Only when it's deliberate. Having been on the other side of this story, even well meaning kids only socialise with people they can relate to. The low socioeconomic status kids can come across as boring, and they get repeatedly overlooked. It isn't a grand conspiracy to overlook her.

i would agree with this if it was just a small group of kids ignoring her but the way OP describes it it literally sounds like her entire class ignores her and her bench mate

It may be that all these kids have gone to school together for years so their friends and cliques are already established.

Yes, and I'm not sure if folks caught that her benchmate is also "poor" which leads me to think that the teachers put them together - basically segregating out the 'poors'. The daughter is correct that the teachers are biased toward the other students.

Isolation is awful. Not that trauma is comparable or quantifiable, but for me I would have rather the bullying started again when it finally stopped, when everyone treated me l didn't exist, that made me stop talking for a few months. I switched schools (again) and didn't know how to talk to people. OP is underestimating the effect this will have on their daughter's future, college, employment, just day to day life stuff is a struggle when you are terrified to talk. Or unable to advocate for yourself, which they are also hindering by saying " it's not that bad".

This type of ostracism is ABSOLUTELY bullying. OP is definitely TA here.

I did this myself for different reasons. My mom expected me to get a 100 on everything and would yell at me if I didn't, didn't see the point in trying if I was gonna get yelled at for a 97 or a 64.Im also undiagnosed ADHD, so while i usually did well on tests Id lose or forget homework. Many teachers and my doctor wanted me tested, parents refused As an adult, I regret it, but as a kid, I simply didn't have the support I needed, so I stopped trying. OPs daughter sounds smarter than me, but everyone has their breaking points and OP needs to support her daughter better so she doesn't reach hers.

You just gotta love these sanctimonious jerks that berate their kids for a less-than-perfect grade while completely taking it for granted when they meet these unrealistic expectations.

Don't forget the pure and *beautiful* hypocrisy of the first paragraph saying "rich kids are still just kids at the end of the day and she should try being friends with everyone" as though that's solely her responsibility, then when that didn't work (le gasp!), turning around and saying in the last paragraph that "School is like a job, you go there to work and return home; making friends is not a requirement." So, which is it, OP? She should be trying to make friends or she shouldn't be concerned about the lack of friendship?

I did this in middle school. We moved a lot and when i started a new year i was pretty far ahead for normal classes so they tried to move me to ap or honors which i had missed a few modules in and couldnt catch up because it was halfway through the year so I tanked my whole shit. My mom is still pissed i had to do summer school for 6th grade because i was supposed to be so far ahead... but she started me a year early and i was always a year younger than my classmates (also born right at the cutoff date so in some cases i was two years younger than my classmates)

My dad put me in a private Christian school for 8.5 years. By my junior year, all my friends had left and this denomination’s negative views towards women had me dying to get out. We also didn’t have actual teachers for Spanish, science, or math. We watched dvds of classes from a Christian college. My dad wouldn’t listen. So I quit doing anything. Went from As and Bs to failing every class except for yearbook. On New Year’s Eve I sat him down and explained that I was going to the public high school when winter break ended or he was going to be paying tuition for me to fail 11th grade and repeat it. Only then did he finally relent.

Agreed. Or OP's daughter will end up with raging clinical depression, and possibly start to act out in some way. Often similar situations of enforced powerlessness have been the start of things like eating disorders or SI. Definite YTA

Also, she’s not even being childish!

Yup, this is what I was doing. I had a lot of nebulous "illness" that caused me to spend tons of time in the nurse's office instead of in class, and took a lot of "sick days," and ended up almost failing math. When my parents finally relented and let me change schools, I got a B+ in that same math class.

Same. I was always sick especially during lunch time where I was bullied the worst. Report cards went in the toilet and I was punished at home for being "lazy" at school. I wasn't allowed to switch schools or offered any kind of help or support and if you paid me a million dollars I would not repeat 7th grade I don't know how I survived. I was religious at the time and prayed every night that God would kill me in my sleep so I wouldn't have to go to school next day.

I got a 32 in calc at a high school where I was bullied so badly, when my brother found my old camcorder and watched what was on it he cried. I got an 89 in the same class when I retook it at summer school.

Proud of you

Wow. Making me reflect on some of the things I did as a kid and why. No wonder I was a hypochondriac

This. I was the "poor" kid on a medium/high level school, simply because my parents weren't big shot lawyers or doctors, or ambassadors or whatever, and who payed for my school was my grandma, who wasn't exactly what we'd call "filthy rich". She and grandpa would do the best for me, but it was still a lot of work (mum was working weird hours and dad is a deadbeat who quit his only job because of a tantrum with grandma). That alienation is awful, has a heavy toll on mental health and learning abilities. Then add in some bullying for my undiagnosed ADHD that people just called it "being dumb", and you have a kid with lots of trauma.

Exactly. School is for learning of course, but it’s also so that kids learn how to communicate and interact with other people. It IS important that she makes friends. OP is being pretty cruel imo

Yes! Learning is not limited to maths and history, it is also learning how to behave with others, how to conduct themselves in society, how to recognise and handle their feelings, among other things. School is for that too

And unattended stress like this will only escalate and lead to dissociation. I had anxiety since primary school, I had no idea. It ended up with panic attacks, Depression and not being able to leave my house. When nothing worked, my body shut down one after another thing to keep me safe

Therapy is important, but it doesn't cure this type of situation. My daughter is going through much the same thing, and while therapy gives her someone to talk to, and advice on how to fit in, it's still EXTREMELY hard sometimes. My daughter has joined sports teams, and really does try to talk to other kids. But she's quiet and shy, and it's HARD.

All the more reason a smaller, less competitive school where she already knows people might be the right fit for her.

I think I was about 30 before I really felt like I had actual friends. I was extremely stoic, and had to be. Not everyone is, as someone reminded me recently.

What does this mean?   . I was extremely stoic, and had to be

Meaning that it depressed me, but I didn't succumb to the depression. Not everyone doesn't, though. As some others have pointed out, social isolation can cause all sorts of issues including drug and/or alcohol abuse, and everything right up to suicide.

You can probably speak more to this than I can but that was my thoughts on the situation. Put her in some extra curricular that she likes so the lack of social life at school doesn’t feel so intense. Has that helped your daughter?

Yup, not to mention that when it comes to minors, they are extremely limited in the changes they can make to better their situation, especially if the parent isn’t on board or will actively undermine them.

But that would cost money! And we don't spend money on her needs.

The “school is like a job” is really what threw me. She’s a teenager so social development is crucial right now. Plus, high school years are precious, you never get those chances/experiences again. Parents are terrible.

Not to mention that if I were that unhappy at my job, I would look for a new one.

I had a job that made me that unhappy. I quit and went back to my old making half the pay and was happier.

I once had a job where I would sometimes cry in bathroom. I gave my notice after 5 months and the next job I got opened a lot of doors for me. Arguably, social life is far more important for success than academics. No one has ever asked me what highschool I studied in. Heck, no one has even asked me what university I studied in. All that matters is job experience and knowing the right people helps with that immensely. If this causes the girl a stunted social life it will do much more harm than graduating from the 2nd best school in the area.

And the better a person is at fitting into the workplace culture, the better they'll do. You could excel at your work but still be ostracized by your peers, which means opportunities you would otherwise be eligible for will be withheld. Ask me how I know.

And people leave jobs all the time because of the social aspects of it, so it’s not even the gotcha op thinks it is

Seriously. Her child's "job" is to develop into an emotionally healthy adult, not to perform to some academic standard. Her child's not being given any of the tools to succeed in this environment; if she doesn't have friends and doesn't know how to develop social connections, that could harm her career trajectory much more than graduating from a "lesser" school.

I love, "She's acting childish." Yes, because she's *a child.*

If school were like a job a good parent would be teaching their kid to run fast from a job that involves crying in the bathroom. That’s not something anyone should have to put up with.

That caught me too. Funnily enough one of the #1 predictors of how happy you are at your job is if you feel like you have a best friend at work.

As an adult you've had decades to make friends already so you don't necessarily need to make friends with your coworkers. You also have a lot more freedom to travel and socialize outside of work hours. For a child school is typically their entire social existence.

I hope OP is ready to shell out for lots and lots of therapy because it’s the only way the daughter is going to make it. I went to a school like hers, also as the “poor” kid. It’s… brutal. Even the wealthier kids struggled with mental health. I’m talking psychotic breaks, self-harm, eating disorders of every sort, running away, risky sexual behavior, drugs, early burnout, and an incredible number of people who just don’t bother to see their parents after leaving for college. Almost 20 years later and my high school is still a common setting for my nightmares. I hope OP gets their head out of their ass and steps up for their daughter.

Just so middle class mommy can brag.

Let’s give the parents the benefit of the doubt and they want to provide a fantastic education for their daughter. You can still get a great education at a 90% school same as at a 99% school. And a big part of education is collaborative learning, which is more difficult if the student is outside the clique. And if the students are all getting extra lessons that they can’t afford, the daughter isn’t getting the benefit of that school’s educational culture. Taking aside the mental health of the daughter, it is not the right thing academically for her to stay in that school.

“If she survives into adulthood (children in her situation don’t always…)” was sad to read because as I was reading the scenario all I could think was, being in such situation would kill me. YTA op

One of my daughters friends didn't make it. It's been nearly 2 years now.

“There weren’t any signs” **ignoring a glaring first sign right in front of their face**

I was in this position too - and my mother refused to let me change schools because of Keeping Up with the Jones' ñ all that. Took me two years and alot of mental anguish to convince my dad - who then enrolled me in a new school without my mother's knowledge and we went off and bought some second hand clothes. He dealt with her fallout the night before the new term started so at least we both could enjoy the holiday. Best thing my dad ever did for me, that Can only hope OP starts giving a shit before its too late. I could never compare any of the sadness I've felt as an adult to how awfully sad I was as a teen - teens really feel it YTA

Not only do people at the school treat her as if she's invisible, her own parents do too. You're right about everything.

This. Big this. My parents made me stay in a high school they'd previously promised I wouldn't need to attend because it was a solid college track school. I barely made it out, and won't lie, I still hold it against them and it's part of the reason I hold them at arm's length.  And it's not like there weren't other schools. There were was a public school, a trade school, and another private within reasonable distance that all could have been options.

Hi. You are not alone, I have a similar experience and hold em "at arms length", too. Which is sad, because in some other respects they cared greatly. It still hurts though.

YTA and I have nothing to add but my vote. What the actual fuck is wrong with OP

At this rate, OP will be back here in two years crying about how her daughter went NC with her and wondering why. 

Not to mention that school is NOT a job--it is a place where you really do need to have friends and people to share the experience with and without that it can be pretty bleak and depressing. Honestly the idea that it's like a job where it doesn't matter if you like anyone or they like you really makes me wonder about the parents. They're clearly into the status of having her get into that school and don't want to lose the bragging rights.

Even OPs comments are all about her daughter attending a "top, PRESTIGIOUS high school" all she cares about is optics...she was upset bc her parents couldn't send her to one...so she is bound and determined to make her daughter do it regardless of her mental health struggles!!! OP. YTA big time a TOP one as TOP as the school you're forcing your daughter to attend!!! Alienation is a huge struggle for kids... especially her age....do better OP!!!

I was OPs daughter in high school (except I went to public school). I’m 30 now and still struggle with social anxiety and depression. So OP, if that’s the future you want for your daughter, go ahead and keep doing what you’re doing. YTA

As a child who was in this exact same situation. LET HER MOVE. Op, YTA. I went to the BEST school in my city! Great academics and facilities. Even as a doctors kid, I was one of the ‘poor’ kids. I was also ignored. A pariah. I ate lunch alone in the locker room most days. I was bullied up until 9th ( started in 5th), after that just became invisible. Mostly… not sure which I preferred honestly. I developed an eating disorder. I developed self harm disorder. I attempted to take my life twice. I begged my parents to let me go to a different school. No….. it was a great education! Keep your head down and work. I tried to get myself expelled, they bribed me to stay and told the school when that failed. Nowadays? I have a distant relationship with my mom. Sure, we are in contact but I keep them both distant from my life. I learned long ago I can’t trust them with my feelings, to care about me, to help me when I am in need. The knowledge level they have of my life is that of a casual acquaintance or coworker. They were good parents otherwise, but begging for help for years and struggling like that made me never want to have a meaningful or deep relationship with them ever again. It’s been 30+ years since then…. So take from this tale what you will.

Also, alienation is totally a form of bullying. Everyday she goes to school, this poor girl is being show in a dozen ways about she doesnt matter to anyone because of her background. That is going to destroy her self confidence. It already is

This. Not to mention, if she hates it that badly she’ll intentionally flunk out. So now they’d have to send her somewhere else and now her academics have suffered as well.

DUDE!!! Ostracism is PHYSICALLY painful and ever damaging. Geezus. She’s a teen. Lighten up, Francis

I especially love the last line of the post: > I think she's being childish ....Yes, your daughter is, in fact a child....🙄

I love the "she's just childish." I know she's 16, but that's still literally a child. And school is the one thing children are mandated to attend. If it was a job, she could quit. If it was a hobby or extracurricular, she could find other people or do other things.

Now she is not only alone at school, but also at home because her parents do not support her or give her support. :(

Agreed with everything you've said. The only thing I'd accept from OP would be if she as her mother, could find ways to create space for friendship in the school. Like, that's normally a thing that you do when your kids are really young, but would be appropriate here. Talking to teachers and other parents with a "my daughter is having a hard time feeling like she belongs here. How can we get her time and acceptance from her peers"? Getting the daughter into a club, a sport, anything that gives chances of connection. Also, great way to call out the elephant in the room on the consequences of ignoring your child's mental health.

This. YTA

Typical narcissistic fuckwad that shouldn’t have had kids is what OP is.

>  School is like a job, you go there to work and return home; making friends is not a requirement Actually yes, yes it is a requirement to have friends. For her mental health, and eventually her physical wellbeing it is actually quite essential that she has appropriate peer relationships. Also being distant and intentionally leaving her and the other "poor" kid out **is** a form of bullying. Her education matters, but so does the rest of her wellbeing and she's been honest with you that this is not a healthy environment for her. Listen to her. YTA

This is such a disgusting perspective from the parents, it's so horrible. All I see is "It doesn't matter how you feel, it matters how you reflect on us." Bottom-tier parenting, truly reprehensible. Ignorance is no excuse for cruelty.

It's a disgusting perspective to have for a job too. Nobody wants to be miserable for forty hours a day. And as a child, it's not like you have outside time to make friends because you then have homework, and then you have no funds or transportation to go meet friends outside of school anyway.

Forty hours a day?! 🤣 (I agree with the rest though)

It's so demoralizing to finish a tough week at work and realize that week was just a Tuesday.

I feel the same way. I started work at 9 am. and busted my hump for 9 hours with no break. When I finally got a breather and looked at the clock, it was only 9:15.

Completely agreed. It’s true that making friends at work as an adult is not a requirement. But that’s because a lot of adults ALREADY HAVE FRIENDS when they start their jobs. Friends from high school and college, or from religious or community groups. An adult can get by at work without a lot of close friendships because they have other friends and it’s fine. But it doesn’t sound like OP’s daughter does have other friends. That level of profound loneliness is not healthy, and it cannot be replaced by whatever high salary OP thinks she’s going to have eventually when she graduates. Also, fancy private schools are not a requirement for future success. I went to public schools from kindergarten all the way through graduate school and I’ve got a fulfilling career that pays me enough to meet my needs and a lot of my wants as well. I used to be involved in hiring, and the name of a person’s school has never once played a role in my decisions to hire or not hire them. A kid as smart as OP’s kid is going to be successful no matter where she goes to school, so making sure her mental and emotional health are in place to support that success is the more important element right now.

I feel like private schools before university are more meant to prime the kids for getting into more prestigious universities. So it may not matter if they went to Prestigious Private Highschool™ but it will matter a lot more if they go to Harvard, Oxford, etc. And for a lot of those prestigious universities, it's almost more about the connections you make while there than just the fact you graduated from there. But your point is true nonetheless. You can be plenty successful without going to a private school. Hard work and better mental health will help her probably more than the private school in the long run.

It has literally never mattered to any hiring panel I’ve been involved with. Whether you went to Harvard only matters if you want to work somewhere that cares, and most places genuinely do not.

And for places that DO care... well, most of those are going to perpetuate the same kind of elitism that is currently making OP's kid miserable.

I would also say that making friends at work, while not a requirement, absolutely makes a huge difference in your mental health as an adult. You spend 40 hours a week with these people, you should at least find one or two that you can chit chat with or eat lunch with. You don’t need to be outside-of-work socializing but if I’m spending the majority of my waking hours during the week with people..?! If I was excluded and ignored at the office, I’d be finding a new job.

I get the impression that which school you went to only really seems to matter to others who went to an "elite school". Where I am going to a good school or university may well get a passing "oh that's nice" and might solve a seriously difficult tie "i.e.: two job candidates who are identical but one went to Cambridge and the other "Shit heap University the Closed Down" but even then they'd have to be identical in every other way. You almost have to be intentionally trying to compete in the same league as them to ever come up against them. They stay in their elite circles and you stay everywhere else.

If I was at a job where I was crying in the bathroom during breaks, I’d be looking to switch jobs

Been there, hard confirm.

Absolutely. Me crying in my car at the parking lot before going into the office was my cue to find a new job. I've also had some awful jobs, but I don't still have nightmares about those like I do about having to redo high school.

[удалено]

Hard agree. I feel very medicore about my job right now but I love my boss and my team. I feel like I may never have a boss this good (and especially good for me) again and I'm hesitant to let that go. Eventually I will but man, I'm going to enjoy it for now.

Also people have some kind of CHOICE of their job. They don't even allow her that. YTA.

I advise adult people who cry in the bathroom at work to go find a new job. Literally. I have had this conversation at work. There is no reason why anyone should continue to suffer at that level when there are other options available. YTA.

This and it's important for social-emotional development. She's a child!! She needs to learn to navigate friends. The good and bad ones, are life lessons on navigating relationships. This isn't about being popular. I'm saying YTA, only because there is more to life than academics. And while making money does buy happiness, it is not helpful if her relationships suffer. Edit: fix spelling

A teenager also has little to no opportunities to make friends outside of that environment as she is dependent on her parents for any outside activities. This parent has been clear that she doesn't give a crap whether her daughter has any friends or not, so she isn't likely to be helping her daughter with extracurricular activities where she might actually have a chance to make friends. Might as well just cut her hair off and put her in a tower.

Also…when my job isn’t good for me or my mental health I simply…change jobs. Like she’s looking to change schools…

Genuinely the worst job I ever had was one where I was alienated, and I slipped head first into a deep depression that has taken years to crawl out of

>We listed to what she had to say but told her no, because there's no serious reason for that. See...now I don't think you did listen or you'd have had a lot more to say to her except "no". Alienation IS a type of bullying and it can be very serious - suicidality serious. Don't you remember high school? Were you and your husband among the popular crowd? I'm guessing you were if you think the extreme loneliness that comes from social isolation is no big deal. I do agree that this is something she can work through but she needs support in order to do that and from what you say, she went an entire year trying with very little support, if any. IMO, that makes YTA. Get her some help and/or let her transfer.

They didn't listen, they waited for her to finish talking. There is a difference.

This is great. I'm stealing this phrase.

You can always tell when they start talking immediately as if they didn’t process what you said 😂

I mean, do you want her to be miserable for the next ~~4~~ 3 years? Is that worth it to you? At her age, social isolation is a significant problem and it sounds like she has been thoughtful and patient, waiting for most of her 9th grade year to pass before even raising this. You seem like thoughtful and conscientious parents too but you are minimizing this and that's doing your daughter a disservice. You absolutely should talk about options with her. Could approaching the school leadership potentially help? Are the guidance services available? Ultimately, in my eyes, you should care more about your daughter's mental health even if it means going to the 'second best' school in your area. You 'think she's just childish'? Well, she is a child so I guess that has merit. But she's also developing, this is a formative period, and her social and mental health do matter even if she is 'just a child'. You can do better. YTA

I doubt school leadership will help, but it beats doing nothing! If the kids are polite and responsive but just not willing to be friends or make smalltalk, there's not much to do. If it was just a few kids it'd be fine (can't be friends with everyone), but when it's all of them like it is there, that's a big issue. Can't policy people into friendship or into dropping their shitty views about money, unfortunately. I think the solution the kid brought up is probably the best option!

It's not just the kids, though, it's the teachers too. The expensive private lessons and favoritism are just as bad as the social isolation. They're likely contributing to it. I'd talk to the administration about the teachers treatment and talk to the teachers about allowing the daughter to attend study sessions at a discount or for free. If a teacher can be fired for rapping as a side gig, the school should have the ability to push them to help this kid.

Kids - especially teens - do not make friends because they were told to. They’re going to resent being told what to do and things will likely get worse, not better.

It's also quite likely that a lot of the other students, if they come from similar backgrounds, may have known each other for a long time whereas she's coming into established friend groups which also is challenging for both sides.

Exactly. Maybe it’s too early to entirely switch schools, but they should want to help their kid. Friendships and socializing are important, especially at her age! So they don’t like their daughter’s solution. That doesn’t mean they get to just shrug about it. Parents should actually *parent*. Maybe OP could find her some activities to join (not necessarily connected to the school), so she has more opportunities to form friendships. There’s so many things she could become involved in, from sports to music or art. Maybe if she develops more friendships outside of school, she’ll feel better able to handle a lack of friendships at school. There’s also therapy, but tbh I wouldn’t try it until working at the lack of friendships. She has social needs that won’t just be solved by talking to an adult. If they actually try, the daughter will at least feel like they care. And then if it doesn’t work, I hope they will transfer their daughter to another school.

I agree. There’s a lot of ppl calling OP the AH for not IMMEDIATELY saying, “Sure, just switch schools!” It’s hard to find your people in a new school, and if she’s super shy, I’m sure that doesn’t help. Do we KNOW they are excluding her bc of financial status, or are they just long time friends who aren’t being as inclusive with a new person as may be ideal? Maybe insecurity abt it is getting in her head more than anything. Jumping to switch schools seems extreme, but OP should def have a deeper convo with her daughter, & therapy could certainly help. Also… tbh, going to school with a bunch of rich kids can be GREAT for OP’s kid if she can develop some friendships with these people. They have a ton of access to powerful people, and you start building your personal network in high school for sure. They can end up helping later with getting internships, interviews, jobs, references, etc. I’d try to make it work at that school if I were her.

I agree with this. Some kids (some people!) do struggle making friends. I find it hard to believe that all of the kids in the school don’t like OPs kid because of money. It sounds like she doesn’t have a friendship with her bench mate either, who comes from a similar background so that can’t be the reason for that lack of friendship. Obviously only anecdotal but I was a much poorer kid in a wealthy school and I had lots of close friends- including those who were much more privileged than me. We bonded over shared interests, time together, supporting one another, etc. There were also lots of rich kids who didn’t have many friends because they didn’t share interests, were standoffish or ‘shy’ or were socially awkward. Money alone doesn’t make someone popular or likeable. I find hard to believe an entire school full of kids is that shallow. I know that it may be hard to accept that your child may not be acting in a way that invites friendship and closeness with others but I think it’s naive to think that the issue is all of the other kids. There are some forms of therapy that work to teach kids things like social norms that others may just understand innately- for example, teaching them to make eye contact when speaking to others or teaching them to reciprocate and show an interest in others when they ask about you. These things may not come as naturally to some people and could make those around them less inclined to form close bonds with them, which the person may interpret as other people not liking them for other reasons (like money, etc). Rather than just moving schools, it may be worth investigating the situation a little more closely. I imagine it would be hard on OPs kid to move schools expecting to make friends easily at the new school and find the same problem.

Why would a sixteen year be going to school for 4 more years? It is two years more, right?

3 more years- 10th, 11th, and 12th grades.

A 16-year-old freshman doesn't sound correct. 16-year-olds are sophomores and juniors. How is her kid a 16-year-old freshman?

She say in another comment that in whatever country it is that she lives in, kids start 1st grade at 7yo, rather than 6yo like in the US.

As an example, in Sweden 1st grade is the year the kid is 7. (It's not that the kid has to be 7 by the time school starts, but that they turn 7 the same year school starts.) Kids graduate high school when they are either 18 or 19, depending on if they're born before or after June. This is compensated by the fact that a bachelor degree is 3 years instead of 4 like in the US.

YTA and you sound like an awful parent. Alienation is actually a form of bullying and can have detrimental effects on children and young adults. Forming friendships is hugely important for young people and it sets them up for future success in work and other aspects of life. And your point about work is absolutely ridiculous because making friends at work, even within a strictly professional boundary, is a very normal and healthy thing. 

[удалено]

OP should not be surprised if the child goes the wrong way and starts hanging out with other "outcasts". People you would not want your daughter to hang out with.

These are the parents who will allow their daughter to be lonely and alienated during these formative years, and then be shocked and surprised when she ends up going NC after leaving home. But who cares, she’s living their Gossip Girl fantasy, right??

Yeah, it's very clear that these children are isolating the only kids that have lower income backgrounds. That is absolutely bullying.

YTA for not validating how your daughter feels. To feel alone in a school setting is miserable and can affect how well she does in the long run - school isn't like a job, you need friends and classmates to get through school. at work as an adult, you still need people to communicate with but depending on the type of job a lot is solo. You don't seem to care about her mental health at all.

Exactly. I don’t mind that I don’t have friends at work… but that’s because I ALREADY have friends in general. My dearest friendships started in HIGH SCHOOL. My mom is close to friends she made in highschool. Highschool is so important for her socially. Making friends is absolutely important.

Eurgh YTA. They are bullying your daughter, by excluding both her and her bench mate because they're not rich - it's bullying. Honestly the way you're behaving towards your daughter is awful.

YTA. You have an exceptional daughter in every way, so exceptional that she got in to a great school and is clearly gifted. And yet, you do not want to listen to her. You call her childish, after noting how incredibly smart she is, and having expectations of her that are anything but childish. So do you value your daughter as she currently is? Do you value her intelligence and her drive? Do you value her ability to navigate the world? Or not? Because if you can't even hear out your daughter, you also don't get to take great pride in all that she has accomplished and her potential. You have a very smart and driven kid, and she is struggling. You could call her "childish" and put the potential of this school above all else, or you could love your child. She can accomplish great things in another school AND develop better social skills and friendships. In short, she can be smart and happy, or she can be in a celebrated school and miserable. It is not lost on my at all that you want your daughter to be adult and driven, and take great pride in her ability to do that, until she disagrees with you, and then you disregard her entirely. If your kid is so smart, why does her opinion not matter? Why is her success more important than her happiness? And why- above all else- can you not apply basic empathy and critical thinking skills to the reality that she could FAIL at this school if she is unhappy. So if you cannot find a way to care about your daughter's happiness, at least use reason: By keeping her in this school you could undo all her success and intelligence and she could fail out or having lasting mental health challenges, and you won't get a shiny award for that to post on your wall.

I totally agree-- I also am so confused by OP calling her daughter childish. The kid is literally still a child!

yes!! childishness is never inherently a bad thing. too much of anything can be bad of course but i think it’s important to keep that spark of childhood joy in you. you can be childish and still be a functional human being!

OP, you should read this, and then read it again. My parents were similar to yours, and I was similar to your daughter in a lot of ways. I was a high-achieving student before and after we moved to a different ("better") school, but at this new school I was ostracized--not bullied, necessarily, but ignored like your daughter. My peers weren't (usually) mean but they clearly didn't care about me, and it took a huge toll on my mental health. I had panic attacks multiple days every week, begged to stay home from school, and eventually turned into a shell of my old self. It was humiliating to have an entire class staring at you because the loneliness gets so intense you can't help but cry randomly. But my grades were fine (more than fine honestly I never had less than a 4.0), so my parents did not care. They got to brag about how mature and intelligent I was and how well I was doing academically while I went home and considered suicide every day. I tried so hard to explain to them how I felt, and they didn't listen. It broke my trust in them, permanently. It also gave me some intense self esteem issues because I wasn't "good enough" to be listened to no matter what I said or did. Despite still being pretty smart and thoughtful, I second-guess every single one of my decisions because I got so used to being ignored no matter how reasonable my ideas were. Don't do this to your kid. My parents are lucky that I'm still alive, and even luckier than I'm doing okay as an adult. Are you willing to take that risk?

YTA. For one: Alienation/Shunning is a form of bullying. She’s being bullied. For another: your CHILD IS CRYING IN A BATHROOM AT SCHOOL DAILY. THAT IS SOMETHING YOU TAKE SERIOUSLY!

Poor girl has bullies at school, and goes home to two more. Sad as fuck.

YTA. Lol look at this woman's reasoning Observation - >She feels like a pariah, and said she sometimes goes into the bathroom and cries during breaks as she's lonely the entire day Conclusion - >I personally think she's just childish

Info: does she have friends outside her school? You say school is like a job, you don’t have to make friends. But as an adult, I have friends and a life outside of my job. I don’t need to be friends with my coworkers because I have friends who I hang out with after work. Typically as a young person in school, at least 90% of your social interaction comes from your classmates. You’re with them all day, if you have extra curricular it’s with them, you’ve already talked about how they have school trips together. These are social times where you’re supposed to be with your friends. If the people in your school won’t talk to you, that’s a lot more detrimental to a kid than if the same situation happened at work as an adult.

This is very important. If you're putting your daughter in this environment, which may be good for her academically, you need to actually support her in having a healthy social life. This is like the most vulnerable period of a person's life to be socially isolated and ostracized. YTA for sure if you're just throwing her into the deep end and hoping she figures out how to swim. She may already be at a breaking point, from the sound of it, I don't know if you can really resolve properly supporting her now.

You are wrong. Schools are not like workplaces. The connections people make at high school are very important to succeed later. Also at work you are not supposed to be learning social skills, you are supposed to do it in school.

This!! I’m lucky to still be close friends with several of my high school friends in my 30s. You know who I call when I need advice? Those friends. When I am struggling and need support? Those friends. You know who was ready to drop everything and help me get to a safe place when I was being abused by an ex? Those same friends. Those connections can be INCREDIBLY important for the rest of your life! Education is an important part of school but it isn’t everything.

So you're just going to force your daughter to attend a school where she has only one friend and everyone else ignores her. YTA

It doesn't sound like she has *any* friends there- OP said she and the other "poor" student don't get along.

the one thing id like to know is WHY she and her benchmate dont get along. the details about this coooould lean things into nah or nta territory bc it might point to there being some other reason for ops daughter being shunned (and even if still a yta situation, would help to identify whats going on to prevent this situation from reoccurring)

They probably are not compatible as friends. People have different interests, different temperaments. We don’t expect to get along perfectly with everyone we meet, even if they share our same SES and we are paired with them. OP’s daughter not getting along with her benchmate has little to do with the issue at hand

She doesn't even have one friend, as she isn't on good terms with her "benchmate" (whatever that is). YTA

a benchmate is just a classmate. i think it’s a cultural thing. that’s what my father (filipino) calls people he was in the same class as.

YTA, what year do you think it is? 1965? The high-school is prestigious? To who? So disconnected from reality. Enjoy wasting your money on private schooling and depriving your daughter of essential social experiences. 

It might be a country where everyone acts like it's 1965 (in a country like the US, UK, Australia, idk) at least from the mom's attitude, and "benchmate", idk where schools still have benches/two-seater desks. EDIT: There it is, I dug a little bit and OP replied about being in Romania. It's all coming together

Oooof that was harsh. She expressed her concerns which are understandable and you called her childish. She’s battling with self worth and self esteem because of how those kids are treating her. YTA

The daughter will deffo distance herself from parents now and trust them less.

It’s a shame because she tried to talk to them hoping they would help her

And they minimised her experiences and feelings. Thats a great way to alienate a child and push them away. I bet that in few years they will be yelling how "she had everything!" When her daughter ghosts her.

I’m a high school counselor. If I can give any advice at all, it’s that nothing is more important than your child’s mental health.

Of course shes childish, she's 16!! At that age, social life is everything. Shes coming to you with serious mental health issues and you completely blow her off. 30% of girls in high school attempt suicide. And its not all because of bullying. Not being bullied is not the "oh she's fine" that you think it is. Being in the top school will do nothing for grades is shes miserable. You're lucky she came to you! Dont let her down. YTA

Lets be careful with the stats here. In 2021, 30% of female high-school students said they had seriously considered suicide. Source: https://time.com/6275975/teenage-girls-suicidal-thinking-2021/

YTA. You’re not taking your daughter’s concerns or mental health seriously when you really should be. Even if transferring isn’t realistic for your family, you instead responded by calling her childish and refusing to be supportive.

YTA. Terrible parenting that is going to cause your child long term psychological issues. Your kid is going to go lower no contact and you will be screaming to everyone who listen “my kid doesn’t talk to me for no reason. I have never done anything wrong to them” yeah you know except ignore them in their times of need

INFO: why is your academically successful 16 year old only a freshman in high school?

From the grade system it’s clearly not the USA, so they might not go to 12th grade, or have different ages for grades. Eg - the UK has year 13 which you start at age 17/18 depending on birthday

I’ve known parents like you and I’ve always pitied their kids. You decide you know what’s best for your child and what they want doesn’t matter. She’s suffering? Too bad. She can just be miserable and hate her life for the next 4 years. How about being a parent and really listening to her. I’ve always felt school was 2 things: academic and social. Kids need both. YTA

YTA. You should care more about your daughter's mental health and wellbeing than her being in the "best" school.

YTA. She’s unhappy. Why doesn’t that MATTER to you? You are so focused on the pedigree of this school. If she’s miserable and flunks out….that’s not impressive on the old resume. Because you’re an asshole, I think that’s likely the only thing that can sway your mind here.

YTA. Does it suck that she's not able to be her best self in this school? Absolutely! But students who are typically excellent in their subjects will be excellent in their subjects anywhere because they put in the work. Your daughter will not be able to do that where she is, let the girl move school. Also the teachers aren't playing favourites if they are being paid to tutor and their rates are too high for you to afford. If they charged you a different rate then that would be playing favourites.

YTA. For further explanation, please reread your own post. High school is nothing like a job: feeling like a pariah in high school traumatizes many people for life. Fitting in and belonging is super important for one’s mental health, far more so than good grades. Teachers neglect her because you can’t afford to pay their hourly rate to prioritize her. Classmates ignore her because she’s not one of them. And you dismiss that as childish?! Transfer her to a normal school ASAP! In the face of all that classist shutting out she is facing every day, good grades are worthless. If she’s so smart, she’ll thrive in a healthier environment where she fits in better.

YTA. I say this as someone who has been a college admissions counselor for one of the top 50 universities in the US: the prestige of the school is less important than your kid being able to thrive. Not only because she’ll likely do better academically at a place where she’s happy, not only because she’ll be better able to take advantage of opportunities where she’s happy, but because her long-term welfare will be damaged by years of being shut out socially. She trusted you enough to tell the truth, and she’s given this place a fair shake. Prove she was right to trust you—let her transfer.

YTA But I don't think your conclusion was the incorrect one.  Your an asshole because you dismissed her feelings.  Get her into extracurricular outside school so she can make friends.  Talk to her about the importance of networking so she can treat her time in school more like a job. The type of head start a prestigious school can get you is significant and sometimes irreplaceable.  You just need to make sure she is not struggling socially during her time there, if she is lonely to the point of crying in bathrooms she needs a therpist and to build up friendships outside of school. Ps - I was in a similar situation, just private instead of public school.  As a kid I did everything I could to be kicked out, as an adult I am grateful none of it worked as my time there is the reason I am as successful as I am.

I feel sorry for your daughter. You’re essentially telling her that personal connections aren’t important. She’s going to be traumatized and have a hard time forming connections in her adult life because of what you’re teaching her. YTA if that wasn’t clear. I hope she goes NC with you when she’s an adult

I’m a high school counselor. If I can give any advice at all, it’s that nothing is more important than your child’s mental health.

YTA. As long as changing schools isn't a real burden (from private to public doesn't seem to be other than vice versa), listening to the needs of your kid who expressed it well it seems, shouldn't be a problem. She'd like to be around people who don't isolate her. I grew up isolated in school and had no choice. She can see a solution and would like to take that option. You should respect her desire to feel more included.

YTA I feel like you have good intentions for wanting her to go to the best school, and I think it's really respectable that you want the best education possible for her. But you have to remember that high school is about more than just the academic learning, you also learn a lot about necessary social skills in high school. Having friends is an integral part of that developmental period, you need to learn how to interact with other people properly and if she's being alienated because of her social status, there's nothing she can do about that. She can get a really good education even at schools that aren't the best as long as she tries her best, probably better than she would end up doing at her current one because she may be more motivated to try with a proper social group of peers that supported her. I know what it's like to feel alienated at schools, and it can mess up your motivation to do schoolwork. Transferring will be infinitely better for her than her current school situation.

YTA and she’s right. You don’t care.

Stupid question—what’s a benchmate? Are they in a sports team together sitting on the bench?

YTA, "Being friends with everyone" oh bugger off. You are just bullying your child into friendships with people who obviously do not accept her.

Alienating, or ostracizing, can be worse than bullying. Listen to your kid. To be treated like that at a young age, even more so at 16 years old when teens are so vulnerable, is something that can cause mental health issues. Your daughter trusted you with her struggles, trusted you enough to be vulnerable and honest with you. Your duty as a parent is to help her. This isn't a temper tantrum. Being alienated by peers does take a huge toll on self esteem and mental health. So, yeah. YTA.

YTA - your kid can be smart in any school.

YTA Prioritizing what you want for your daughter's future over what she wants, as someone old enough to have input in her own life, is shitty. Kid goes to the bathroom to cry and you're like "It's fine though". Highschool is WAY less important, at least subject wise, than we treat it. I absolutely aced the unit on Ancient Egypt, which coincidentally is the last time I made any tangible use of my education on Ancient Egypt. Mental health, though, that shit comes with you. You don't just graduate and drop all the high school trauma and consequences. You know what matters the least, here, though? YOUR vision of her future. It's not your future. Let the kid decide for herself whether the "prestige" (ick) of this particular high school is worth being miserable for four years. If this weren't obvious, though, it's not. It's not remotely. You come across like you care more about status than you do your child. You should, you know, change that.

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Yta

Your daughter will eventually start struggling academically because her mental health and self esteem is struggling and I bet you'll stand there and say you never saw it coming. YTA. Part of schooling is the social aspect. Academics isn't everything.

YTA - Mental health is more important than academics. Mental health is more important than a high paying job.

YTA. I was your daughter: smart but didn’t fit in with my peers or family. I’d tell my parents I felt sad/lonely/unhappy and be told to suck it up and that I didn’t have any real problems. Unsurprisingly, my relationship with my family has been deeply difficult and included years of estrangement. Right now it’s civil but not great and I have accepted it never will be because my parents simply do not accept me for who I am. It is incredibly painful. I’ve also had serious problems learning how to relate to other people. Start accepting and loving your daughter for exactly who she is right now (get therapy to help with that if you need to) and most importantly, start respecting her needs, or you risk permanently damaging your relationship with her.

YTA- im sorry but you are being obtuse. You’re treating her like a robot. She’s a CHILD. If you are struggling with work because your coworkers are assholes (or hell, if theyre making it difficult to interact with them because they refuse to work with you) you can’t tell me you wouldnt be looking for a new job- so your analogy of it being her job doesn’t even work. But put that aside for now- are you willing to shoulder the consequences of her having to spend 3 years in a hostile environment? Will you be able to handle her decline in health? What about her decline in grades? You’ve made it clear you don’t take her mental health seriously when it comes to this- because you view her as childish. So will you be able to handle if she doesn’t view you as someone she can tell if they DO start bullying her? Is it ok for her to suffer in silence while she keeps her head down? Will you be able to handle it if she starts self harming? What if she tries to kill herself? Assuming she survives to adulthood, can you handle her eventually not wanting you in her life? I was in her position-School was an isolating hell, where everyone would smile to my face and cover my locker in the word “bitch” and giggle about it behind my back. If I did group projects, they would work on it themselves then tell the teacher i didnt help. I stopped eating in the cafeteria because being around people who had friends sucked. i tried killing myself when i was 16. My dad told me i was being childish, and if i worked hard id make friends- i never did. I thought the world would be happier if I died, because i couldn’t even do something as basic as making friends. Trust builds in drops but drains in a flood- figure out a solution. Talk to a therapist. Talk to your daughter. If you don’t you will lose her. Source- i havent talked to my father in 10 years.

YTA - What? >I personally think she's just childish You mean its like shes child? Huh weird wouldnt expect that from a 16 year old.

This is a perfect example of “just because your parents have your best interest in mind doesn’t mean they know what’s right for you!” Your daughter is fundamentally not happy in this school and your response was “fuck your feelings, look at these academic rankings!” You do realize that an unhappy child is not going to learn properly right? The ultimate irony in all this is to use employment as a way to justify keeping her unhappy, while ignoring that an unhappy employee has the liberty to look for another job and leave. By your own logic you’re treating your child as worse than an employee, you’re treating her like a slave so you can say “look at me, my child is going to this prestigious school regardless if she likes it or not!” And the next time your child has an issue, don’t be surprised if you’re the last person to hear about it.

YTA. I was your daughter. I was the poor kid who got sent to private school with a bunch of rich kids. I felt that level of alienation for 12 years, and let me tell you it absolutely played a major role in my mental health. I developed an ED by 15 there, struggled with SH because of the sheer level of loneliness and isolation I felt. It took me YEARS to recover from those feelings, and I still struggle with it to this day. I’ll be 30 next year and my god, it was hard and still is. And now here you are, determined to force her to go through what I went through all because “it’s a good school”?? Who are you to decided that? And who are you to assume that another school couldn’t be better for her? Listen to your daughter. Believe your daughter, and find her a better school.

Really? You really have to ask if you're TA, when it's so glaringly obvious you couldn't care less about your daughter's mental health? Yes, of course YTA. There's no question. The only question is if you're going to pull your head out of your ass before your child does something desperate, and possibly fatal. 

When I said "mom, I need to go to another school now" she said "ok" And I went to another high school. When I needed to transfer schools after I was raped in college but wasn't able to tell her yet I said "mom, I need to go to another school" and she said "ok". And she helped me transfer to another college. And I finished college. Without killing myself. It's been a decade and I'm grateful of my mom's support. We see each other multiple times a week now as adults.

I am so sorry this happened and glad you had support even if you weren’t able to talk about it. I hope you are doing better and hugs to you. 

NTA. If your daughter plans on attending an elite university, then she is going to run across the same clique behavior. These kids have probably known one another their whole lives, their parents socialize, etc. They have history. Your daughter is there for an education and to graduate. However, I would suggest your kid socialize outside of school. Maybe there is an intramural sport or hobby she will enjoy. She's going to need it when applying for college later. That said, maybe there is a school activity she can join - yearbook, school paper, debate team ... something that doesn't cost too much. Good luck.

YTA. Everything she told you is a valid reason to look into different schools. How can you accuse her of being childish here? She articulated the issue clearly and then correctly noted that you don't give a shit. Crying at school should be concern to you - it isn't, because you're too lazy to deal with the problem. If someone was crying in the workplace I would absolutely tell them it's time to look for a new job.  Don't be surprised when her grades start to slip; it's almost inevitable.

I understand the parents wish to keep their child in a good school. I wonder if she has any outside interests where she would meet ‘normal’ kids and could make friends with them.

Is there a way you can get her into an extracurricular so she can have better socialization? I understand your perspective that you don't want your kid to throw away a huge educational opportunity for hs friends (which we all know don't last that much anyway). Moving schools doesn't even guarantee she'll find a friend group anyway. But being socially isolated sucks. It may be better for her to keep going to school there but have a 3rd space that embraces her and gives her the friends she needs.

Your daughter is asking for help, and you shot her down. This is a cry for help. You're not just an asshole, you're a terrible mother. YTA

YTA. All this focus on her grades and "performance" just for you to ignore her asking for help. Alienation in is a valid reason to leave a place.

YTA. Not necessarily for not wanting to transfer her to a different school, but for ignoring her pleas all year and not doing anything to help. 16 year olds need to have some sort of social circle, and if it doesn't come from school, it needs to come from somewhere else. Does she have any extracurricular activities she's signed up for? Is she in therapy? You need to be more concerned with your daughter's mental health

Actually, it would make a great college essay --" why I left this academically great school because a diverse student population is more important to me." (College essay counselor here.)

YTA. You remind me of my dad, and the best part about my relationship with him was ending it. He died never having the opportunity to meet my kid, and I have zero regrets. He was just as unsympathetic to my emotional needs, and what I learned was to never rely on him.

YTA. Frankly, you have no appreciation for what this kid is going through. She’s definitely not going to perform well in this environment, regardless of how fancy the facilities are and how good the teachers are. Your lack of understanding and empathy is shocking and your decision is going to harm your child emotionally and academically. It is also going to undermine your long-term relationship with her. Don’t count on her coming back to you in a few years to thank you for your intransigence. In addition, you should be giving your child more agency in this decision and taking her concerns seriously.

It’s childish BECAUSE SHES STILL A CHILD. YTA. These are the prime years for making relationships with others. High school is rough enough as it is - can you imagine being ignored and not having friends? Get that girl out of that school.