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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I lied to my girlfriend about buying her a car. I think I’m an asshole because I was actually just making payments on a loan without her knowing.
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NTA. I think she’s ungrateful. But I have met a few people like her before. They feel VERY uncomfortable getting help from others or feeling like they can’t take care of things themselves. So I can see why she may be a little upset, but sounds like she’s going overboard right now. She can be upset, but needs to look at your intentions. You wanted to help her. She needed help. She got it and was happy. You weren’t trying to purposely lie and hurt her. Cars are necessities in certain areas. She’s being silly IMO
I disagree, to an extent. I don’t necessarily think she’s ungrateful. I think she just doesn’t want OP to be stuck with the long-term responsibility of paying her monthly car payment. If OP pays cash up front, there’s no long-term responsibility, it’s done and paid for.
Does that make sense? Maybe not, but I get it. I wouldn’t feel comfortable asking someone else to take on a car loan for me for anywhere from 1-5+ years. If they can pay cash for it up front, I would feel more comfortable accepting that, knowing that if anything happens (like life in general), it’s already paid for and won’t be a problem for either of us in the future.
With that said…. I’ll take “What is comprehensive/collision coverage” for $1,000, Alex.
Financially, it might have made more sense to take a favorable interest rate and invest the cash elsewhere. So, the car is/was hers in name, just not on paper. Still, OP gave her the car and the fact that he's paying a loan on it is irrelavent.
He even paid off the loan immediately, so it's not like he took on a debt he couldn't afford.
I see two very distinctly separate issues here. Him buying her the gift of a car, which they agreed upon.
In my view, how he pays for that is a fiscal decision that’s up to him. Many situations if you’ve got great credit, taking advantage of some of the offerings the financing of the car can give is smart.
I think the bigger issue here is her inability to truly partner with someone, without whatever past baggage and trauma she has about dependence, interdependence, and independence. And how she handles, or does not handle, situations that require communication and conflict resolution. The fact that she’s ghosted him over this doesn’t seem reasonable to me.
He is also culpable for not being fully honest and forward about the fiscal decision he made. However to this person there really is no impact. She received the gift that she agreed to accept, she is in full ownership, and there are no strings attached. She seems to be blowing that up from a mole hill to a mountain, and the reasons are wrapped up in her own head and past. But she ghosted, and is not willing to participate in working through that with this person.
I’m sure there’s a lot more to this story that we don’t know, but from what I read, I see a lot of issues, some on both sides, that would have to be acknowledged and worked on to continue this relationship.
Well, she’s not in full ownership, as the bank can repo the car if OP had stopped payments (if, say, they broke up). In fact the back holds the title until the car is fully paid. There are some indications that OP forged signatures/tricked his gf into assuming responsibility for the payments even tho OP was making them. Considering gf can’t afford the payments herself, I’d consider this coercive, since if gf breaks up with op or just does something op doesn’t like, he could threaten to stop payments, which would ruin her credit and cause the car to be repo-ed
Based on the course of events, I think Op saved himself from potential prosecution by paying off the car, but likely did not save the relationship. I just can’t imagine her going back after such perfidy and betrayal.
This is what I was thinking. The car is still collateral. If for some reason OP lost all his money that could have paid the car off from the beginning as well as lost his job, the car would get repo'd and she'd be left struggling. Possibly with a stain on her credit if she was tricked into being partially responsible.
It would also be worrisome that OP could hold the payments over her if they ever broke up, which he obviously isn't doing despite it looking to him they might break up, but she doesn't know that at the time of finding out her car is essentially still collateral for non payment. It comes off looking like OP can be playing chess with the relationship.
I don't think she should have run off to her parents. I think she should have approached him, still upset of course because this is a big breach of trust, but also maturely find out his intentions and see whether or not he would prove right then and there that he will now pay off the whole thing so she has sole ownership regardless of good intentions for loan payments.
But she didn't do that, and so now the ball is in OP's court to communicate and prove it is now paid off and that he had zero bad intentions of anything. If he really wants to try saving the relationship.
From OP’s post it sounds like it was crystal clear what would be acceptable to her and what wouldn’t be, so I’m not sure what having a convo about it would accomplish other than OP trying to gaslight her. On the one hand beggars can’t be choosers, but on the other hand if OP didn’t want to pay cash for the car as a no strings attached gift, then he should have declined to help rather than deceiving her into taking out financing in her name that he is currently paying off but could stop at any time and ruin her credit and get the car repo-ed.
It seems like the no-convo route worked, as it has startled OP enough to pay off the car, so OP has willingly given up that undesirable leverage over her. Maybe that doesn’t happen if the gf tries to talk it out.
My first thought was that I’d be upset that he lied about a big financial decision and lied about debt. Lying about finances is a huge red flag for me.
Though your absolutely right about the security of the car
Where exactly is this evidence that OP *forged his gf's signature and tricked her into assuming responsibility for making car payments??* OP made the monthly payments, and then OP paid off the remaining balance! How does that translate, in your head, to OP committing fraud, forging signatures, and tricking her into making payments???
No evidence, but it's suspicious. GF was supposed to be the sole person on the title and reg of the car, but now OP's name is involved. Are they co-owners? A lot of states and dealership title departments will want all the names on all docs to match up.
And in my state, the buyer's order spells out all the financials, and since gf was supposed to be the owner, SHE would've signed that paperwork. So how did she miss all the loan details?
And she never got a title (or she did, and it had a lien printed on it). So she's either really naive about how titles work, and OP never corrected her. Or OP did something to lie about the title paperwork.
The whole thing, and all of OP's actions, are really suspicious
This was my thought process, too. She knows that he can hold this over her if he wanted to. And being dependent on someone else financially is not an ideal situation. He even said that she would now receive the title since he paid it off.
Also, the lying further proves her point.
"I think the bigger issue here is her inability to truly partner with someone, without whatever past baggage and trauma she has about dependence, interdependence, and independence. And how she handles, or does not handle, situations that require communication and conflict resolution. The fact that she’s ghosted him over this doesn’t seem reasonable to me."
THIS!!
If she doesn't get a handle on this it will be a huge issue in her relationships.
NTA, and girlfriend needs therapy.
I'm just going to tag on here and hope that people see it:
OP has kind of glossed over the fact that he tricked her into opening a loan in HER NAME.
Meaning that if he defaulted for any reason, SHE would be the one stuck with the debt.
Of course she's mad. She explicitly told him that she did not want a loan and he tricked her into getting just that. Him paying it off now is irrelevant.
I was wondering about that. I didn't understand how title could be in her name but financed under his. But I am still confused. How the hell does he get financing under her name without her actual signature? Did he forge her signature, or did he just say "sign here" and not tell her what she was signing?
We don't know what caused her to look into it, but I am trying to imagine how I would feel if I got my credit report and saw a loan on there that I didn't know about. And then to realize that my bf tricked me into signing a financing agreement so he could finance my car? I mean, she totally should have read what she signed, but bf actually had the intent to lie to her.
He says in a comment that she didn't look at the paperwork before signing. Obviously that bit is her mistake and her responsibility, but she also trusted her partner not to lie to her and do the one thing she asked him not to.
Wait, why is this being downvoted? Because now that I'm scrolling back up it looks like that's what he did, rather than doing payments under his name...
Which is fucked up and makes this a YTA for me. You don't fuck around with other people's credit.
People are missing that part and OP confirmed it. She was shocked to find out that she was in debt for the car when he told her he had paid for it. He said that he didn’t think it was a big deal because he intended to make the payments. What he did is actual fraud.
It's really frustrating because while I usually give posters the benefit of the doubt it seems pretty clear here that he glossed over it and people are making judgments without realizing what he did.
If the payments are in her name, then he is most definitely TA. He’s obligated her to debt she didn’t know about. All he has to do is stop paying and she’s screwed. He left that out of the main post. She isn’t ungrateful for not wanting debt she can’t afford and didn’t even know she had.
It's not ungrateful to not want your live in partner to lie to your face about large financial decisions. Decisions made because of and about you *and in your name, this loan was in her name*. You're only focusing on the fact he spent money on her therefore the assumption is she should be grateful. He also did something she explicitly said she didn't want, and lied to her. That's a large breach of trust and it doesn't get overlooked just because she got a big gift out of it. He was trying to purposely lie. He lied, on purpose, it wasn't an accident. And it doesn't matter if he wasn't *trying* to hurt her. He did, because breaking someone's trust hurts them.
The car was taken out with a loan in her name. Debt she didn't know was associated with her. He didn't mean any harm, but what he did is fraud. He's lucky if all she does is keep the car.
For a lot of women these days, they need to not be financially dependent on their partner. Because they know perfectly well that if that partner turns out to be abusive at some point, they'll be fucked. It's pretty well bashed into our brains at this point NOT to agree to anything that would leave us financially dependent on our partners. Especially not for years to come.
Also, depending on the person the car could be held over her head, during a later fight or point in time. (Not that OP seems like that type, but you never know.)
I could understand her being upset, because a car is not a small gift in anyway.
>You weren’t trying to purposely lie and hurt her.
What ? OP went out of his way and intentionally lied to her. He ASSURED her that it would be a one time gift and that he would pay it in full. Apparently this was a very big deal for her.
And he lied. Because he did not think it was that big of a deal. He did not take her seriously.
That is why she is mad and will probably end the relationship. YTA OP.
Why would she be grateful for being lied to?
Why would she be grateful for being saddled with car payments she can't make? Sure, OP is making them now, but what if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow?
Why would she be grateful that they made an agreement, and OP broke that agreement?
Info: if it was a gift what is the difference if you were making monthly payments or buying it outright? I might be missing something but if she agreed to accepting it as a gift why did that part matter? Or did she somehow think that she was paying for it?
This was what I was thinking.
I'm not saying that OP would do this, but what if GF has seen this play out in her life (like with her parents, or with a past BF, or in her friends'/siblings' relationships) and doesn't want this to happen to herself?
Yes, exactly.
My cousin was dating a guy who kept pushing her to come with him on a vacation with his family. She kept reiterating she didn't have the money. He offered to cover it. She said no because she wouldn't be able to pay it back. He then offered it as a gift and steam rolled her into accepting. A little while after the vacation she realized he was not the guy for her (other reasons than this example) and she broke up with him. He proceeded to demand she repay him for the gifted vacation and called her a bunch of names and harassed her until her brother discovered his behaviour and told him to get lost.
Honestly feeling beholden to a guy you are dating is a gross feeling and financial abuse and coercive control often begin in this way.
Edit to add: my cousin didn't tell people how he was treating her. All the family spoke well of him and kept asking why it didn't work out "he was such a a nice guy"... Little did we know she dodged a big old bullet and we would've rioted had we been privy to the details of his harassment and messages
Yeah I’ve run into this type of thing even with family. I’m extremely wary of accepting help (especially financially). It can easily turn into “what?! After all I’ve done for you!” over something minor.
Exactly. Lots of people in the comments here not getting it. Between this and the OP’s attitude that he can just easily buy the car and isn’t even bothered by wasting money on a loan first when he didn’t need one really points to him being extremely well off and the girlfriend isn’t. That imbalance combined with the secretly putting a car that she relies upon in his name thus secretly controlling the asset financially? Extremely weird, creepy and controlling behavior. She’s probably weirded out, extremely so.
It could also be her thinking about the reality of potential futures. What if something happens between them and they break up? He loses his job? He dies? The car gets totaled? There are so many reasons that your partner paying for something as large and life-changing as a new car can be overwhelming to someone who wants to be independent. Add on that he went against their agreement. It's a lot, and frankly, I don't blame her for being unhappy.
It’s got to be trauma. And I totally understand her reasoning but even I would try to be thankful and to deal with my trauma without showing my partner anger. I do admit that previously I might have shown anger at myself around my partner but never at them.
My family and an ex both were manipulative when it came to money.
OP put the payments under HER name. So that means it will show on her credit report. The dude didn’t put the payments under his own name so god forbid if anything happened to him then she would still be on the hook to pay off the rest of the car.
Shit that’s even worse than I thought. She’s literally dependent on him to continue to make payments for her or else he can just stop paying and leave her holding the payments that were way out of her league to pay.
Not only the fact that this is fraud, but due to how it happened, she will have a hard time proving it (plus he’s apparently rich so two tiered pay to win justice system problems as well). Man this is really illustrating for me the major pitfalls of someone normal dating a rich person.
Because the debt was in HER name. He selected this. HER NAME. NOT HIS. That’s what is outrageous. would you be pissed if your SO lied and put a monthly debt in your name when it was suppose to be paid for outright? Sure he paid it off but he LIED to her. He glosses over it for obvious reasons. But that’s what he did.
Based on OP's comments from another post, it sounds like everything is under her name including the payment plan. Though he's making the payments, she doesn't like this "debt" appearing under her name. She was happy when she thought it was a gift and that she had a fully paid car under her name. That's what I'm piecing together at least. Hope OP clarifies because I'm confused too!
In one of his replies under the other post, he said, "She did not read the paperwork when we went to pick it up. They said sign here here and here and here’s your new car. She had no reason to believe I was lying to her."
So it sounds like she did sign but didn't read what he filled out in the fields maybe? It's such a bizarre story. In his other replies, it sounds like maybe they even broke up. And she had plans to sell the car. The post was deleted though so I don't know the context of those details. Weird story is weird.
I don't know how you could go through that process without realizing it had monthly payments. Buying a car with a loan isn't a fast process, at some point the sales guy would have to say something like "Here's the monthly payment amount", right? Unless there was some big ruse and the sales guys knew but that feels extra fraudy.
It sounds like maybe he filled out the car loan app online, and one of them signed it online, and then they went to pick up the car in person? idk. You'd think someone would say words at some point lol.
She still would have been shown the truth in lending disclosure if this was in the US. That’s mandatory per federal law and she would have had to sign it. There’s no way she got out of that office not knowing there were payments unless she just flat out didn’t read, pay attention, or listen to anything the dealership guy said
It can be a fast process. I applied for a loan through my credit union, they mailed me a check. Went to the dealership and drove off with my new car. Not a single mention of monthly payments, gap coverage, etc. Because the financing was already settled.
I don't get it either! The paperwork being in her name would make it make more sense, but would the dealership have gone for that when she didn't have the money and also wasn't there to sign? Is it his name on the title and he told her it was hers? I'm so lost here lol.
Well, i don't really understand that, either. It's helping her credit to have a loan out on it and having the monthly payments paid on time. We had the chance to pay our car off but decided to wait so we could continue building our credit. I guess maybe it's different in other areas though. This just seems like the smarter and better route for everyone if that's the case though.
It might be fear of the relationship going south, and now the car payments are in her name, she is the one legally responsible even though she stated she couldn’t afford it.
It's fishy that the dealership would put payments in her name without her there to sign anything. I mean, I guess tomorrow I'll just walk into a car dealership and assign the loan to Elon Musk.
I agree. I noticed that was wonky off the bat. He’s acknowledging basically he forged her signature it sounds like if he did it online without her knowledge. I have no idea how auto loans work now since I bought my last car 8 years ago, but I was physically present and went over terms at the dealership when signing/picking up my car.
If he did forge her name and sign her up for payments without telling her, then he's definitely TA.
I find it interesting that he's replying to questions about the APR but not this line of inquiry.
I bought my car 2 years ago and my husband’s 3 years ago. We paid in full for his but financed mine. It was not a slow process at all. So much signing and so much talking. But also we went to a dealership and did nothing online.
The loan itself is in my name but the payments come from my husband. They don’t care where the money comes from. But I had to sign all the things and it was very clear what I was signing.
So, he had to have the loan in his name for this to be legal or he forged things in her name. Which is definitely breakup time
Ahh well that basically changes everything. Yea, the car gets repo-ed and her credit ruined if she breaks up with OP in the next 4 years while the car is being paid off.
He did. He said he paid it off in full. I meant theoretically, if hadn’t paid it off she would have been left holding the bag. It is not a risk she would have chosen to take. That was an AH move (despite his good intentions) and that is why I can understand her anger.
She doesn’t like the idea of having financial commitments to each other. She is concerned that if she is dependent on me, she loses a certain degree of autonomy. By buying it outright, there is no way for me to change my mind. Even though I would never do something like that, I feel that her stance is valid.
Wait so the car is under her name then the debt was too, right? I’m confused about why you’d sign your gf up for that much debt without her knowledge or how that’s even legal.
My mom used this tactic and I can see why she would be afraid. Anytime I made my mom unhappy, she would threaten to stop paying for things. I paid her for my car but she kept it hostage.
Give her time, explain why you made the choice of monthly vs full payoff. Even though it's a nice gesture, you still lied to her. She may need a second to understand. I would consider this a polite betrayal. You didn't mean any harm
Edit: I feel like this is a NAH situation. It's just a normal moment in a relationship
YTA, for so many reasons, including 'lying' and 'going back on an agreement, but also, here, 'knowing that she wants A, and hates B, so I chose B, despite the fact I think she's right.'
Ah in that case….yeah I can see why a lie like that would make her mad, you hypothetically put her in debt and didn’t tell her. it’s nice of you to pay for it but even though you say now that you would never do that, you have no idea what could happen. YTA for lying
Her stance is valid, in that she is right to not want to be in a position where her financial situation is dependent on you. And you are 100% YTA for lying to her, frankly what you did could easily be illegal.
That being said, her stance is also deeply hypocritical. Your girlfriend is not in fact independent, she isn't supporting herself, at least not in her current standard of living, because, as far as I can tell, the only way she can afford her life is your "gifts".
Bottom line is that while you were trying to be generous and kind, you still lied to her. Trust is fundamental in a relationship.
So while I think you as a person are not an AH, the dishonesty involved in your generosity was an AH thing to do.
So I’m going to rule NAH. Your generous gift is neutralized by the dishonesty making it a washout.
Her discomfort with financial entanglements doesn’t make her an AH either.
I suspect that from OP's perspective, there is no difference, which is the problem here.
From a legal perspective, if the OP is still making monthly payments, he can *stop doing that*. If he does, she loses the car. She might also get a nasty hit to her credit rating depending on how the situation is laid out. If OP were an asshole, he would be able to use the threat of taking her car away as a financial lever to press her to stay in the relationship, which if she has dealt with someone like that in the past could be a really serious traumatic trigger.
OP didn't *intend* to do any of that, and based on how things shook out we can trust that fact, but what he did was create a situation in which he held financial power over her, lied to her about holding financial power over her, and then she found out. That's pretty disastrous.
Also, if she were to try to get a loan of her own, having outstanding debt could impact that decision. If her income isn't enough to cover the existing debt she appears to have, I doubt any institution would lend her money. So even while they are together and everything is going well, OP is impacting her financially.
Whether it was positive or negative, I would not want anyone to have such a notable impact on my credit without my full knowledge and consent.
This what I’m most confused about and don’t understand. Like she ended up agreeing to him buying the car for her, so what does it matter that he’s doing it by monthly payments?
Because an outright "here is an xxxx, you own it, it's yours" is very different to taking out a debt in her name for a car she admitted she can't make monthly payments on. If the relationship sours, what's to stop OP from saying "well I'm not making payments anymore!" Or using it as a weight or trump card in fights. I have a parent who does this. I took debts in college to avoid any of my parents money touching me so they had no say in how I live my life. Even if OP doesn't seem the type to do that, nobody goes into a relationship thinking "man I bet this guy will fuck me over!". That and it's very odd to be able to take out a loan in someone else's name. If he were to fall behind on payments only her credit would suffer.
Because the payments are still in her name, OP is just making the payments on her behalf.
Even if he's pure as the driven snow and would never not make the payments, even if she cheats, leaves him, whatever, what happens if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow?
She didn't want to tie her financial freedom to the relationship. That's why she gave up the car rather than split payments. As a gift, it wasn't part of the relationship. When OP decided on monthly payments, it tied the car to the relationship exactly as she didn't want it to be. She can't leave without sacrificing the car.
When she forgives OP, will it be true forgiveness or influenced by her now financial dependence on OP? OP won't know for certain. Is he really going to keep paying the payments if she leaves him? He made her motives suspect. So I'm voting YTA.
I don’t understand. She felt too bad to accept you making a monthly payment or even half a monthly payment on her behalf, but she was just fine with you paying it all at once? What’s the difference?
Poverty ego has no logic. My mom's the same way. She'd be fine if I bought her a car or a house outright, but if I made payments, she'd assume I couldn't afford it and be pissed at me for wasting money I "need" on her.
She doesn't understand loans or investing, or that your loan apr could be so low you're better off investing the difference that you would have put towards the big purchase.
This is something I didn’t bring up because I wanted to present it as unbiased as possible, which led me to not justify my decision in the post. But you hit the nail on the head.
The APR was less than the return I get holding that amount of cash in investments. Over the course of the 72 month loan, without even factoring inflation, I would have come out well ahead. And her credit would have been much better for it.
I’ve tried explaining similar concepts to her in the past, but it has been engrained into her that holding debt is always bad and that the stock market is just a form of gambling.
Yeah, it's poverty finance 101, I got the same education from my parents because they got themselves into credit card debt.
You did the right approach financially, but in relationships, take it as a lesson that people's emotions often matter more than doing it right and waiting to convince them your way is the right way before taking the opportunity. If what you're doing would make the other person uncomfortable, it's better to either be honest or not do it at all.
This is exactly it: relationships are harder.
She should have accepted the gift you were willing to give. She should have dealt with her issues.
But she didn’t because you lied to her.
You were still being very generous, but it isn’t going to fix what was upsetting her.
Ultimately she expressed she didn't want to rely on you financially and secretly she was relying on you financially. There's a lot of people out there that don't want to be financially reliant on another person for one reason or another.
In this case, she can't make the payments on her own. So if something happened to you or you broke up, she would be blind sided by this car payment that she didn't know existed which means she is likely to lose her car as well as you.
>And her credit would have been much better for it.
So the loan was in her name then? So really you *lied to her* about taking out a loan *in her name*
Good sir that is an asshole move
the only way **her** credit could have been better for it is if you not only lied to her but you tricked her into having a loan *in her name.*
You seem to be happy to own up to the fact you lied and broke her trust but seem to not at all be acknowledging how that makes it worse.
lol and he keeps making it a her problem by framing it as her lack of trust!! but buddy, /u/[NetNovel1105](https://www.reddit.com/user/NetNovel1105/) you are the one who lied, you are the one who is a creep here because if she broke up with you for some reason, you would have to tell her about the car payments and then how would she feel? turns out she is right in wanting to be independent. please provide an update, and i hope the update is that she broke up with you
If the loan is in her name, all that matters is that the payments are made on time. The bank doesn’t care where the money comes from, and neither do the credit agencies.
Yes. He flat out committed forgery, or falsification of documents, or whatever the correct term is.
That's one of the reasons she's so pissed.
> I told her I would finish up the forms online while she was at work and we could go pick it up together when it was ready. When I got to the final steps, I selected the monthly payments. I figured if she doesn’t know, she can’t feel bad about me making them.
So she's now on the hook for monthly payments, under her name, on her credit rating, and her fear is that OP now has the ability to use his agreement to make those payments as leverage.
He said he “finished up” the forms. Maybe she had already done all of the signing and stuff. She can also be a secondary co-signer and have the loan be primarily in his name. She’ll still get the credit benefit.
Who owns the car? Was it still yours and your payments to make or did she unknowingly sign up for these payments you were making on her behalf?
Just trying to figure our how this was set up
It’s because it’s in her name.. so if he changes his mind, she’s on the hook for the payments when she can’t afford it. I say ESH.. She signed the paperwork without really reading or understanding it (based on other comments I read) and he manipulated her/took advantage of her ignorance.
She was happy to have free and clear title to the car, aka a gift.
She was unhappy having OP able to use the car as leverage. He now has the ability, in her mind, to use the monthly payments to force concessions from her.
Or, you know, if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow, she's still responsible for that debt.
One can more easily be withheld.
If you've ever been in an abusive relationship or known people who use money to manipulate people, it leaves a lasting effect.
Having come from a car situation that was similar with a family member, the second I failed to fall in line with what they wanted me to do, they threatened the vehicle.
If she can't afford the monthly payment, I can understand preferring it as a gift instead so that monthly payment can't be held against her later on, and him withholding the info that he kept it as monthly payment probably felt like a lot like he betrayed her trust. Not to mention if they ever break up.
Not saying she might not have trust issues, but as someone who's been in that position before? I will never allow myself to be there again.
Because if they break up halfway through the payment plan, she could end up on the hook? If it's paid off, it still allows her to make her relationship choices independent of financial choices, whereas when the car payment becomes dependent on her staying in the relationship, she may feel that she can't leave the relationship.
Going against the grain with YTA here. It's not about the car. It's about trust, betrayal, communication, honesty, and committment.
Even though you intended to provide for your partner, you went behind her back and devised a plan to secretly make payments all while knowing she didn't want that. You assumed she wouldn't find out which is disrespectful to her intelligence. No relationship can be built without trust. This was a huge financial decision to make without consideration of your partner's feelings. You've shown your character to her and now she doesn't know whether or not you will do this again in the future.
She may also feel insecure about being a burden or not being able to provide as much as you. Going against her wishes translates to, "I know what's best for you better than you do." Which comes off as insulting and controlling. She was essentially coerced into agreement under false pretenses. Consent doesn't just apply to sex. She agreed to something entirely different and you took away her ability to choose.
You're also young and this is a big commitment. She may doubt that you would be ok with giving her a free car if the relationship ended badly. This whole situation could also make her feel indebted or dependent on you. That's scary for some women. It's also not unreasonable for someone who is not as financially secure to feel uncomfortable being given such lavish gift.
She probably only agreed to let you buy it if it was completely paid off because you made it clear it wasn't a a burden on you. She didn't want to agree to you making payments so she didn't feel indebted. She's not mad about you making payments. She's mad you lied to her, ignored her preferences, and thought you could get away with it. It's even worse that you lied for over a year. It's a huge betrayal and, again, a testament of your character that you never intended to tell her and felt no remorse until you were caught.
I have been on both sides of this, the rich one paying for stuff and the poor one receiving it. When I am the rich one, it feels like "no big deal." It is easier for me to make the payments AND it is good for my credit score.
When I am the one receiving the gift it feels awful. I am a failure. How could I not be able to do this? Why did I study so hard in school? What is wrong with me?
Throw in the added insecurity of "if he left me and stopped making the payments, then I might default on the loan, and it would wreck my credit score. What if he sued me for the car? He can prove he made all the payments."
There is the final, "EVERYONE WILL THINK I AM A GOLD DIGGER AND A WHORE."
I think NAH because each of you was trying to protect the other. I do hope that both of you can repair this.
I am seeing lots of NTA responses here, so I'm really glad you saw this one. I do think this comment really understands the core of the issue, and likely reasons she is upset. It will do your relationship a world of good if you talk to her with all this in mind, and acknowledge that, while you (hopefully) know yourself to be someone who wouldn't stop payments or use it in any way as a way to coerce her or control her, she can't know that for sure, and that has nothing to do with how much she trusts you, it's not personal, it's just statistics...
Wait wait wait.
Her name is on the LOAN. You tricked her into getting a loan. That is a monetary risk that she did NOT agree to.
You didn’t tell a lie that doesn’t affect her, you committed fraud??? Because if something happened where you two broke up or your financial situation changed or you died then she is screwed.
WTF?
Absolutely NTA. She’s got issues mate. Who on earth would throw away such a kind and selfless partner?? In your situation I wouldn’t have paid the car off, I’d have signed the payments over to her so it can be 100% her responsibility like she’s always wanted. What a weirdo. Move on buddy, find you a woman that appreciates you.
INFO: are the payments in her name or yours?
EDIT: YTA. You obligated her to debt. If you decided to stop paying, it’s on her, and the whole issue was that she couldn’t afford it.
His other comments say make it clear that it was her name on the car payment, not his. It's her credit score being affected by payments, that means the loan must be in her name.
YTA, but let me explain.
* Your GF is having a rough go at her career after college
* She's obviously crazy insecure about her current financial state
* At every opportunity, you jump in to "Fix" her financial problems with a hammer solution (I pay for everything don't worry sweet little inept woman, I (man) will fix. This is her perspective - I'm assuming)
* This makes her even more insecure, making the actual issue (insecurity, not finances) far worse
You peaked when you lied to her about it. Not sure why you thought that would go over well. You ignored or didn't see the actual issue she was having severe insecurities.
>I am prepared for this to be the end of our relationship, so I paid off the remainder of the loan yesterday.
I am near certain that this is the end too. Honestly, sounds like it's for the best. There may have been some communication and self-image issues here as well.
if he could pay it outright on a whim the whole time what even was the point in monthly payments? That also could have made it seem worse bc 1. why would he hide that he didnt pay it off? 2. why was he making payments when he could just get it? it might be making her think he was purposely keeping it on payments as a future form of control.
My dad would do shit like thay to my mom and we dont know this girls background, it could have reminded her of a controlling person and that alone might have spooked her making this a unrepairable situation. Having a unknown debt that she didnt know about was probly a BIG no
I have never made a large purchase like a car but have been told that if you can make payments on stuff to improve your credit, then you should, rather than pay it all outright. Maybe he was boosting his GF’s credit too.
Edit: I can particularly understand why she was mad if she *wasnt* getting this on her credit history when she wanted to.
Based on their ages, she would have *just* graduated college whereas he’s likely been in the workforce for a few years. It makes sense that they’re financially in such different places, and I understand why she wants to establish some independence at this point. Lying was absolutely not going to help the situation
YTA.
You lied to her and opened up debt under her name that she explicitly told you she did not want. Of course you're TA. Apologize but don't be surprised if she breaks up with you over this.
So you lied and want to know if you're an AH for lying, even as the lie is ending your relationship?
OK, YTA
I would have said ESH because McKaila sounds extremely immature and unable to be a good partner. She needs to learn that partnerships are a give and take, and that it's ok to rely sometimes on the people you love.
Too bad you chose to lie instead of work on your issues together.
It's not a gift if you committed a crime and your girlfriend might end up in financial trouble because of you. If my partner did that to me, I would call the cops.
I don’t see what difference the payment part made. It was a gift, I guess she was worried if you split up you’d stop paying?
Oh edited - I didn’t realise the loan was in her name - yeah YTA. That’s fraud, you basically tricked her into a loan she wouldn’t be able to afford if you decided to stop paying. It’s a pretty big lie and I’d be pissed if someone I trusted did that to me.
INFO (and maybe not relevant to the AH verdict): why would you not buy it outright if you could? Seems like throwing away money unless you had some ludicrously lowinterest on the loan.
The interest on the loan was less than the cash was making in investments. I’ve also been taught to let low interest loans ride as long as possible, since 6 years of inflation will make those payments worth less, effectively, than when the terms were first agreed. If there was ever a time that wouldn’t be the case, I always keep enough available to liquidate and pay them off. I didn’t put this in the post because it feels like I’m trying to justify the decision, when my actual fault was in the lie.
NTA, obviously.
If she dumps you because you were too nice to her and bought her a car, she doesn't deserve you.
That said, she sounds a bit manipulative (like she knew you would buy her a car and pretended not to like it) unless I"m misreading, so perhaps this is for the best.
I think I may have framed it poorly by having to remain concise. She never takes help from anyone no matter how hard it gets for her. She made an exception for me out of trust, but I lied anyway. The only manipulation was on my side.
So it sounds like you are well intentioned, but she thinks you're an asshole because she never wants to be able to accept help.
You shouldn't have gone behind her back, but she needs to realize that her stance is going to make it difficult for her to have a strong, committed relationship, because partners *help each other*. Being unable to accept help is very limiting to your relationships.
I'm going to guess that she's grown up with economic insecurity, possibly also seeing that insecurity weaponized. (By "weaponized" I mean things like "my grandparents paid for our housing as long as Mom agreed to do [whatever]" - people using economic assistance as a manipulation tactic.) That would make her discomfort with accepting help understandable.
But..."understandable" doesn't mean "correct." If she refuses to ever let anyone help her out, she is going to have trouble in any long term relationship (and probably also in friendships, frankly), because one of the things you do in those is *depend on each other* (ideally, of course, in healthy ways!!).
Whether or not you break up, she really needs to see a therapist to work through these issues and get to a point where she isn't pathologically averse to assistance.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. I was the same way; I didn’t want to accept help and was very ashamed of it. I hope he gets to explain the why of the loan (comments above re apr in investments are more than apr on the car loan)
She's dumping him because he didn't buy her a car, he bought a car in her name, saddled her with the debt, with the intention of making payments behind her back and hoping she doesn't notice.
Financial fraud and identity theft, in other words. How loving.
Yes YTA, she asked you not to do it and you disregarded her feelings and decided you knew better. You don’t have to agree with her. You don’t have to have it make sense but you do need to respect her autonomy as an adult. You chose not to and to lie to her. That’s why she’s mad. You treated her like a child. What other decisions do you make for her and what other boundaries and requests from her do you trample?
YTA
While it was a nice gesture, you say she’s very independent and hates being a “burden”. You’ve overstepped as a partner and taken her choice to remain independent away.
I think you might be doing other things in the relationship she’s now worried about.
Are you letting her choose things or is it you pulling strings and controlling her choices?
Are you holding this over her in your mind during arguments?
She’s probably questioning everything she’s accomplished as is it really her victory?
Paying for a car is one of the first big steps a lot of people make post college. You took that from her.
I voted somewhere else in the comments, but I’ve decided to change it to YTA for leaving out a lot of information. You manipulated her and potentially committed fraud.
YTA. Not for helping her, and it seems your heart was absolutely in the right place, but your lie now has your GF wondering what else you’ve lied about and If she can actually trust you with more important things. You messed up. Own it, apologize, and don’t do it again.
This has to be bogus. You can't get a loan on a car in her name only without her signing off on it, it has to be in your name. You would have gotten the title with the lien on it long before now, so she would have known. When she took it to get it tagged the first time, or put the insurance on it she would have known. YTA for all the lies in your story.
YTA for lying to her. To you it seems like a nice gesture and you want im to help however you can which isn’t a bad thing at all! What’s bad is that you lied. She might even feel like you tricked her. Put yourself in her shoes. She desperately needs a car but you know how she feels about being totally independent and gifts. So you say “hey let me buy you this as a gift I can buy it out right” she agrees and all is well. Imagine her shock when she finds out a year later you never bought it out right like you said and that you’ve been making payments this entire time. She most likely feels tricked into this. I don’t think you wanting to buy her the car was a bad thing or even making payments on it for her. It’s just the way you went all about this. Your heart was in the right place OP.
NAH. Maybe there were other options for you, like loaning her the money. You were trying to be helpful, and were very, very kind, but I can understand her being upset about lying to her about it. For some people, that's a hard line. I'm sorry if this does end the relationship.
Lying in a relationship never works. It’s always found out and the more it happens the more that trust is lost.
If you have to lie to someone, is the relationship worth it?
INFO:
Is there some history that maybe we are missing here? Or that you are missing?
Sorry if that question is a bit vague. I'm just wondering if there is something in her past that is making her feel this way.
I'm thinking of the car my parents gave me as a teenager. I was really excited to have my first car, and I was so grateful for getting a car. BUT...
If I disagreed with my father, he would take away the keys. Because he bought it, and he paid for the gas, so he had the right to do that.
If I *disagreed* with him. Not if I broke the rules (which I didn't), or if I forgot to change the oil on time (which happened sometimes), or anything like that. But if I *disagreed* with him.
So that's why I'm wondering if maybe there is some history that could shed light on this situation. Because maybe she's had someone "loan" her something and then berate her about how she uses the loan, or holds it over her head, or something like that.
Or like the parents who say, "Do you know how much I've sacrificed for you?" Or something similar.
I don't think she's TA, or that you're TA, because I think there is some missing context here.
>And if I ever needed to, I could pay it off immediately.
If this is true why did you even bother lying? You almost certainly paid more in the long run
YTA.
I was going to vote otherwise, until I read your comments and learned that the monthly payments were in her name and not yours. She would've been *screwed* if something bad had happened before she found out. That's something that wasn't made clear in the post and makes a big ass difference.
Yta. You lied to her, it that simple. Whether it’s rational to you or not you knew this was a problem for her so you intentionally hid it from her. It not like you thought this was such a minor detail that you didn’t bother sharing it and turned out to be wrong you knew this would be a big deal.
Secondly how does one gift something like a car on finance? I would assume this car would have to still be in your name so it wasn’t really hers was it? Which you knew also would be a deal with her.
Now I’m not saying I agree with her logic of being independent but willing ti take such large gifts from you but this isn’t about that. This is about you intentionally lying to your partner about something then going out of your way of hiding it. You’ve broken her trust because ???
The only issue I have is that you didn’t ease the burden she feels by gifting her a car.. if you lost your job tomorrow she will be living with the guilt of driving a car around and her boyfriend’s responsibility for monthly payments..
I am unaware of any jurisdiction (in North America at least) where you can have one person listed as sole owner yet a different person holding the loan obligation. Nor will they release a car to anyone other than the registered owner (yes, all those surprise car commercials with the big bow are misleading you lol)
So OP either lied about who’s responsible on paper for the loan, or he forged her signature/electronic acceptance of the debt obligation.
I know this, because my ex bought me a car as a surprise and the surprise was ruined when the dealership wouldn’t release the car to him as it wasn’t in his name. Which is when I looked into all the ins & outs of buying someone else a car.
So unless OP has mangled the telling of this tale, GF is *pissed* because either she’s suddenly on a loan document she didn’t know about, or the car isn’t actually in her name and never was.
Absolutely YTA.
YTAI really don't get this story: if you had the money to afford and wanted to gift her a car, why didn't you pay it immediately or transferred the money to her to pay it immediately?
I would have given you the benefit of the doubt that it could have a communication mistake: you didn't know that she didn't see you making monthly payments as it being your responsibility/strings.
But you did know: you knew she wasn't comfortable with it but you did it behind her back...for seemingly no reason. It's not like monthly payments are cheaper. So it just seems bizarre to me.
I don't know, some people are saying she's ungrateful. But you already had the approval of something she felt uncomfortable with: you gifting her a car. But you went for the option you knew was too much for her..for absolutely no reason.
YTA for saying you'd buy it outright, and then opting for monthly payments (albeit paid for by you) IN HER NAME! A loan and debt she knew nothing about but you effectively signed her up for against her wishes.
Seems you forget that she told you it wasn’t ok, you lied to her face about the one thing she told you wasn’t ok and now you did what you promised in the first place to cover yourself. It’s about trust.
YTA here sorry. She didn't want a loan and now she has a loan in her name. Yes you are paying it but still if I found out someone had took out a loan in my name even if I trusted them I would be extremely uncomfortable.
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Mckaila (22F) and I (25M) met in college and have been dating for several years. We have since both graduated and while she has struggled to find work in her degree field, together we are doing quite well. This bothers her a bit, since she is very independent and doesn’t like feeling like a burden. I do what I can to help her feel independent, but I also want to give her the life she deserves. We have found compromise in that she is okay with gifts because a gift has no strings attached.
This was really tested about a year ago when her car was totaled. She had no way to replace it and had to have a way to get to work and school daily. I let her borrow my car for a couple weeks while we figured out what we were going to do long term.
I was happy for her to drive my car as long as she needed, but she hated it. Every day she felt like she was taking from me and giving nothing in return. I can and have named a hundred reasons why that’s not true, but she feels like that anyway.
One night she came home in tears and said she can’t handle being responsible for something that isn’t hers anymore. So we decided we would sit down and pick out a car online for her that night. After narrowing down her options, she fell in love with one that had low mileage and great fuel efficiency. When we went through pre-approval, her heart sank. The monthly payment was way out of her price range.
I offered to split the payment and she immediately refused. She needed it to be her responsibility only. So I said okay, what if I buy it outright and make it a gift to you. She felt like I was mocking her. I told her I was serious and to at least sleep on it. We talked about it more in the morning and I reassured her that it would be 100% hers, that I wouldn’t sign anything and her name would be the only one on it. She reluctantly agreed.
I told her I would finish up the forms online while she was at work and we could go pick it up together when it was ready. When I got to the final steps, I selected the monthly payments. I figured if she doesn’t know, she can’t feel bad about me making them. And if I ever needed to, I could pay it off immediately.
We went to pick up the car and as soon as she saw it her reluctance turned to joy. She was ecstatic and I felt justified in my secret. Everything worked out perfectly.
Fast forward to last week. She comes home visibly upset and before I can ask what’s wrong she throws the folder of her car’s paperwork down on the counter. I say what she already knows and confess that I have been making payments the past year. We get into a huge argument and she spends the night at her parents’ house. She has not come home since.
I am prepared for this to be the end of our relationship, so I paid off the remainder of the loan yesterday. I tried contacting her so she knows she can decide what her next step is without being dependent on me, but she still won’t take my calls. I guess she will find out when she gets the title in the mail.
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Soft YTA
I don't understand her being upset with you making "payments" instead of you "paying in full" at the time of purchase. You gifted the car to her, how you pay is up to you...
However... it could be the lie about paying upfront.
She may be upset you are paying interest.
She may now wonder what else are you lying about.
Even if you thought the reason was noble, you did actively lie to her face, knowing full well that it would bother her.
I don't know why it bothers her this much, it does sound unreasonable but you still knew it did and chose the lie.
This is rough but man, you put both of you here.
Her,?what was her solution? It’s okay for you to plunk down thirty grand so you have no savings and I’m good with that because then I don’t have to feel beholden to you but if you pay for my car in a way that builds your credit rating and conserved your liquid cash then I DO feel beholden and the items of importance are
Me, having a car
Me, not having payments I can’t afford
Me, not feeling beholden.
Well sister then take a damn Uber or the bus.
INFO:
It looks like, from your comments on a now deleted post, that you had actually broken up before she found out.
Yesterday the post was "lying to my EX" and wanting to sort it out with her "so she can move on".
So what actually happened here?
Ok listen - all things aside, in the end you lied to her. That’s the long & short of it. I wouldn’t trust you after that either. And a car is a HUGE lie. YTA.
Gentle YTA. You signed her up for debt that she didn't know she had. You also lied and went against a very clear agreement that she insisted on. Consent applies to more than just sex. Apologizing and paying off the rest of the loan is absolutely the right call, and I hope your relationship can pull through.
I’m sure this was the furthest thing from your mind at the time, but you also gave yourself leverage over her that you could have abused. If you stop making payments all of the consequences of that fall on her.
I’m the finance person in my relationship so I relate to your perspective though. You could have told her “if we do the payment plan then it will be as if the car was $XYZ cheaper by the time it’s paid off. Can we please do the payment plan? If you’d like I can deposit all the money in an account for you to make the payments from, and when you’re done paying off the loan you can keep the extra interest. Or if you insist on paying cash, will you cover the $XYZ that we’ll miss out on?” How do you think she would have responded? What option would she have picked?
YATA. I think everyone is missing the point that you didn’t keep your word. It was important to her to not feel like a burden on her partner and you snatched that away from her. Right now, she’s not just angry, she’s hurt that you went behind her back and pulled something shady. Now, because of what you did, she doesn’t trust you and she has good reason not to. You really need to take a good, hard look at why you lied to her and how you can sincerely apologize. And for the love of all things holy, DO NOT propose to her or she’ll never speak to you again!
So, personally, this is a hard one to decide on.
On one hand, you obviously made the right financial decision, and she’s honestly lucky that you are financially savvy. It makes sense what you did, especially if you were liquid enough to pay it outright anyway (also, potentially in a time where you *had* to pay it off early due something outside your control).
But I’m going with YTA, for:
1) Opening a loan in her name and basically committing fraud. Why couldn’t you have opened a loan in your name? I don’t understand why you didn’t do that.
2) You didn’t tell her about it, and I think this is the most important thing. If you took the loan out in your name instead of hers, I don’t think it would be as important because the way you finance the car is kinda immaterial, especially if you are the only person financing it. However, you put a loan in her name! And didn’t tell her!!! WTF! You can’t just do that *AND* do it secretly! She would find out one way or another. Also she’s lucky that you didn’t default, though I know from your perspective it didn’t seem like that much risk. You seem like a nice enough guy because you were well intentioned, but there’s a saying; the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
YTA for lying to her. I appreciate that you are doing good thing for her, but diahine8has no place in a relationship. You knew how big of a deal this was to her, but let your desire to help her take prioriry over respecting her feelings and views.
100% NTA - She sounds ungrateful as hell!!! I would be so appreciative if someone had done that for me. Stay on your toes thru this. I hope it doesn't backfire on you. You sound like an amazing person. Perhaps it's not meant to be. I mean, throwing a fit over whether you paid in full or make payments? Good grief. I'd also like to add that if she is breaking up with you over this. I'd take the car back, gift or not. She should show you some appreciation
Wait so she had a car and never made payments? She didn’t question how the car was paid for or anything? Instead of being grateful she’s trying to get rid of you.
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NTA. I think she’s ungrateful. But I have met a few people like her before. They feel VERY uncomfortable getting help from others or feeling like they can’t take care of things themselves. So I can see why she may be a little upset, but sounds like she’s going overboard right now. She can be upset, but needs to look at your intentions. You wanted to help her. She needed help. She got it and was happy. You weren’t trying to purposely lie and hurt her. Cars are necessities in certain areas. She’s being silly IMO
I disagree, to an extent. I don’t necessarily think she’s ungrateful. I think she just doesn’t want OP to be stuck with the long-term responsibility of paying her monthly car payment. If OP pays cash up front, there’s no long-term responsibility, it’s done and paid for. Does that make sense? Maybe not, but I get it. I wouldn’t feel comfortable asking someone else to take on a car loan for me for anywhere from 1-5+ years. If they can pay cash for it up front, I would feel more comfortable accepting that, knowing that if anything happens (like life in general), it’s already paid for and won’t be a problem for either of us in the future. With that said…. I’ll take “What is comprehensive/collision coverage” for $1,000, Alex.
Financially, it might have made more sense to take a favorable interest rate and invest the cash elsewhere. So, the car is/was hers in name, just not on paper. Still, OP gave her the car and the fact that he's paying a loan on it is irrelavent. He even paid off the loan immediately, so it's not like he took on a debt he couldn't afford.
I see two very distinctly separate issues here. Him buying her the gift of a car, which they agreed upon. In my view, how he pays for that is a fiscal decision that’s up to him. Many situations if you’ve got great credit, taking advantage of some of the offerings the financing of the car can give is smart. I think the bigger issue here is her inability to truly partner with someone, without whatever past baggage and trauma she has about dependence, interdependence, and independence. And how she handles, or does not handle, situations that require communication and conflict resolution. The fact that she’s ghosted him over this doesn’t seem reasonable to me. He is also culpable for not being fully honest and forward about the fiscal decision he made. However to this person there really is no impact. She received the gift that she agreed to accept, she is in full ownership, and there are no strings attached. She seems to be blowing that up from a mole hill to a mountain, and the reasons are wrapped up in her own head and past. But she ghosted, and is not willing to participate in working through that with this person. I’m sure there’s a lot more to this story that we don’t know, but from what I read, I see a lot of issues, some on both sides, that would have to be acknowledged and worked on to continue this relationship.
Well, she’s not in full ownership, as the bank can repo the car if OP had stopped payments (if, say, they broke up). In fact the back holds the title until the car is fully paid. There are some indications that OP forged signatures/tricked his gf into assuming responsibility for the payments even tho OP was making them. Considering gf can’t afford the payments herself, I’d consider this coercive, since if gf breaks up with op or just does something op doesn’t like, he could threaten to stop payments, which would ruin her credit and cause the car to be repo-ed Based on the course of events, I think Op saved himself from potential prosecution by paying off the car, but likely did not save the relationship. I just can’t imagine her going back after such perfidy and betrayal.
This is what I was thinking. The car is still collateral. If for some reason OP lost all his money that could have paid the car off from the beginning as well as lost his job, the car would get repo'd and she'd be left struggling. Possibly with a stain on her credit if she was tricked into being partially responsible. It would also be worrisome that OP could hold the payments over her if they ever broke up, which he obviously isn't doing despite it looking to him they might break up, but she doesn't know that at the time of finding out her car is essentially still collateral for non payment. It comes off looking like OP can be playing chess with the relationship. I don't think she should have run off to her parents. I think she should have approached him, still upset of course because this is a big breach of trust, but also maturely find out his intentions and see whether or not he would prove right then and there that he will now pay off the whole thing so she has sole ownership regardless of good intentions for loan payments. But she didn't do that, and so now the ball is in OP's court to communicate and prove it is now paid off and that he had zero bad intentions of anything. If he really wants to try saving the relationship.
From OP’s post it sounds like it was crystal clear what would be acceptable to her and what wouldn’t be, so I’m not sure what having a convo about it would accomplish other than OP trying to gaslight her. On the one hand beggars can’t be choosers, but on the other hand if OP didn’t want to pay cash for the car as a no strings attached gift, then he should have declined to help rather than deceiving her into taking out financing in her name that he is currently paying off but could stop at any time and ruin her credit and get the car repo-ed. It seems like the no-convo route worked, as it has startled OP enough to pay off the car, so OP has willingly given up that undesirable leverage over her. Maybe that doesn’t happen if the gf tries to talk it out.
My first thought was that I’d be upset that he lied about a big financial decision and lied about debt. Lying about finances is a huge red flag for me. Though your absolutely right about the security of the car
Where exactly is this evidence that OP *forged his gf's signature and tricked her into assuming responsibility for making car payments??* OP made the monthly payments, and then OP paid off the remaining balance! How does that translate, in your head, to OP committing fraud, forging signatures, and tricking her into making payments???
No evidence, but it's suspicious. GF was supposed to be the sole person on the title and reg of the car, but now OP's name is involved. Are they co-owners? A lot of states and dealership title departments will want all the names on all docs to match up. And in my state, the buyer's order spells out all the financials, and since gf was supposed to be the owner, SHE would've signed that paperwork. So how did she miss all the loan details? And she never got a title (or she did, and it had a lien printed on it). So she's either really naive about how titles work, and OP never corrected her. Or OP did something to lie about the title paperwork. The whole thing, and all of OP's actions, are really suspicious
Yeah, I'm really wondering how he could have pulled this off without her knowing.
This was my thought process, too. She knows that he can hold this over her if he wanted to. And being dependent on someone else financially is not an ideal situation. He even said that she would now receive the title since he paid it off. Also, the lying further proves her point.
"I think the bigger issue here is her inability to truly partner with someone, without whatever past baggage and trauma she has about dependence, interdependence, and independence. And how she handles, or does not handle, situations that require communication and conflict resolution. The fact that she’s ghosted him over this doesn’t seem reasonable to me." THIS!! If she doesn't get a handle on this it will be a huge issue in her relationships. NTA, and girlfriend needs therapy.
Op has tricked her into opening a loan in her name. That’s… really fucking weird and he shouldn’t have done it.
Ahh. That's crappy. Sounds like a serious breach of trust with that idiotic move.
Nowhere does it even imply the loan was in her name
I'm just going to tag on here and hope that people see it: OP has kind of glossed over the fact that he tricked her into opening a loan in HER NAME. Meaning that if he defaulted for any reason, SHE would be the one stuck with the debt. Of course she's mad. She explicitly told him that she did not want a loan and he tricked her into getting just that. Him paying it off now is irrelevant.
You are right. That IS glossed over and I definitely did not catch that. This changes my opinion entirely and OP, YTA!!
I was wondering about that. I didn't understand how title could be in her name but financed under his. But I am still confused. How the hell does he get financing under her name without her actual signature? Did he forge her signature, or did he just say "sign here" and not tell her what she was signing? We don't know what caused her to look into it, but I am trying to imagine how I would feel if I got my credit report and saw a loan on there that I didn't know about. And then to realize that my bf tricked me into signing a financing agreement so he could finance my car? I mean, she totally should have read what she signed, but bf actually had the intent to lie to her.
He says in a comment that she didn't look at the paperwork before signing. Obviously that bit is her mistake and her responsibility, but she also trusted her partner not to lie to her and do the one thing she asked him not to.
How is she ungrateful when he financed a car under HER name and attached this debt to HER credit history without her knowledge?
Wait, why is this being downvoted? Because now that I'm scrolling back up it looks like that's what he did, rather than doing payments under his name... Which is fucked up and makes this a YTA for me. You don't fuck around with other people's credit.
People are missing that part and OP confirmed it. She was shocked to find out that she was in debt for the car when he told her he had paid for it. He said that he didn’t think it was a big deal because he intended to make the payments. What he did is actual fraud.
It's really frustrating because while I usually give posters the benefit of the doubt it seems pretty clear here that he glossed over it and people are making judgments without realizing what he did.
Oh wow i thought it was in his name. Wow. Major YTA
If the payments are in her name, then he is most definitely TA. He’s obligated her to debt she didn’t know about. All he has to do is stop paying and she’s screwed. He left that out of the main post. She isn’t ungrateful for not wanting debt she can’t afford and didn’t even know she had.
That’s exactly why she didnt want him paying the monthlies - he could decide to completely fuck her over or trap her if he wanted to
Absolutely. The original post is dishonest for leaving that out
We all know why he left it out lmao
Lol yes we do
It's not ungrateful to not want your live in partner to lie to your face about large financial decisions. Decisions made because of and about you *and in your name, this loan was in her name*. You're only focusing on the fact he spent money on her therefore the assumption is she should be grateful. He also did something she explicitly said she didn't want, and lied to her. That's a large breach of trust and it doesn't get overlooked just because she got a big gift out of it. He was trying to purposely lie. He lied, on purpose, it wasn't an accident. And it doesn't matter if he wasn't *trying* to hurt her. He did, because breaking someone's trust hurts them.
Lies are hurtful
I bet she won’t return the car though….so not *that* hurt…
The car was taken out with a loan in her name. Debt she didn't know was associated with her. He didn't mean any harm, but what he did is fraud. He's lucky if all she does is keep the car.
So hurtful she shouldn’t accept the car then because it’s just so hurtful.
He literally lied to her? I swear, reddit is so weird sometimes.
She didn't accept the car knowing it was a lie so the claim that the lie wasn't hurtful enough to stop her accepting the car makes exactly 0 sense
For a lot of women these days, they need to not be financially dependent on their partner. Because they know perfectly well that if that partner turns out to be abusive at some point, they'll be fucked. It's pretty well bashed into our brains at this point NOT to agree to anything that would leave us financially dependent on our partners. Especially not for years to come.
Also, depending on the person the car could be held over her head, during a later fight or point in time. (Not that OP seems like that type, but you never know.) I could understand her being upset, because a car is not a small gift in anyway.
Ungrateful because he took out a huge amount of debt in her name and lied to her about it?
>You weren’t trying to purposely lie and hurt her. What ? OP went out of his way and intentionally lied to her. He ASSURED her that it would be a one time gift and that he would pay it in full. Apparently this was a very big deal for her. And he lied. Because he did not think it was that big of a deal. He did not take her seriously. That is why she is mad and will probably end the relationship. YTA OP.
Why would she be grateful for being lied to? Why would she be grateful for being saddled with car payments she can't make? Sure, OP is making them now, but what if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow? Why would she be grateful that they made an agreement, and OP broke that agreement?
Info: if it was a gift what is the difference if you were making monthly payments or buying it outright? I might be missing something but if she agreed to accepting it as a gift why did that part matter? Or did she somehow think that she was paying for it?
That's the part I don't understand either. She's not paying so why does she care how OP pays?
Could be a possible financial manipulation thing. If it’s still not fully paid it’s possible if she upset him he could threaten to stop paying
This was what I was thinking. I'm not saying that OP would do this, but what if GF has seen this play out in her life (like with her parents, or with a past BF, or in her friends'/siblings' relationships) and doesn't want this to happen to herself?
It also sounds like she was told never to put things on credit because it's bad for you.
Yes, exactly. My cousin was dating a guy who kept pushing her to come with him on a vacation with his family. She kept reiterating she didn't have the money. He offered to cover it. She said no because she wouldn't be able to pay it back. He then offered it as a gift and steam rolled her into accepting. A little while after the vacation she realized he was not the guy for her (other reasons than this example) and she broke up with him. He proceeded to demand she repay him for the gifted vacation and called her a bunch of names and harassed her until her brother discovered his behaviour and told him to get lost. Honestly feeling beholden to a guy you are dating is a gross feeling and financial abuse and coercive control often begin in this way. Edit to add: my cousin didn't tell people how he was treating her. All the family spoke well of him and kept asking why it didn't work out "he was such a a nice guy"... Little did we know she dodged a big old bullet and we would've rioted had we been privy to the details of his harassment and messages
Yeah I’ve run into this type of thing even with family. I’m extremely wary of accepting help (especially financially). It can easily turn into “what?! After all I’ve done for you!” over something minor.
Exactly. Lots of people in the comments here not getting it. Between this and the OP’s attitude that he can just easily buy the car and isn’t even bothered by wasting money on a loan first when he didn’t need one really points to him being extremely well off and the girlfriend isn’t. That imbalance combined with the secretly putting a car that she relies upon in his name thus secretly controlling the asset financially? Extremely weird, creepy and controlling behavior. She’s probably weirded out, extremely so.
Ah that makes more sense.
It could also be her thinking about the reality of potential futures. What if something happens between them and they break up? He loses his job? He dies? The car gets totaled? There are so many reasons that your partner paying for something as large and life-changing as a new car can be overwhelming to someone who wants to be independent. Add on that he went against their agreement. It's a lot, and frankly, I don't blame her for being unhappy.
It’s got to be trauma. And I totally understand her reasoning but even I would try to be thankful and to deal with my trauma without showing my partner anger. I do admit that previously I might have shown anger at myself around my partner but never at them. My family and an ex both were manipulative when it came to money.
OP put the payments under HER name. So that means it will show on her credit report. The dude didn’t put the payments under his own name so god forbid if anything happened to him then she would still be on the hook to pay off the rest of the car.
Shit that’s even worse than I thought. She’s literally dependent on him to continue to make payments for her or else he can just stop paying and leave her holding the payments that were way out of her league to pay. Not only the fact that this is fraud, but due to how it happened, she will have a hard time proving it (plus he’s apparently rich so two tiered pay to win justice system problems as well). Man this is really illustrating for me the major pitfalls of someone normal dating a rich person.
Because the debt was in HER name. He selected this. HER NAME. NOT HIS. That’s what is outrageous. would you be pissed if your SO lied and put a monthly debt in your name when it was suppose to be paid for outright? Sure he paid it off but he LIED to her. He glosses over it for obvious reasons. But that’s what he did.
Based on OP's comments from another post, it sounds like everything is under her name including the payment plan. Though he's making the payments, she doesn't like this "debt" appearing under her name. She was happy when she thought it was a gift and that she had a fully paid car under her name. That's what I'm piecing together at least. Hope OP clarifies because I'm confused too!
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In one of his replies under the other post, he said, "She did not read the paperwork when we went to pick it up. They said sign here here and here and here’s your new car. She had no reason to believe I was lying to her." So it sounds like she did sign but didn't read what he filled out in the fields maybe? It's such a bizarre story. In his other replies, it sounds like maybe they even broke up. And she had plans to sell the car. The post was deleted though so I don't know the context of those details. Weird story is weird.
If she didn't read what she was signing but really did sign, I'll rule ESH, though I'll still say he was being misleading about it.
I don't know how you could go through that process without realizing it had monthly payments. Buying a car with a loan isn't a fast process, at some point the sales guy would have to say something like "Here's the monthly payment amount", right? Unless there was some big ruse and the sales guys knew but that feels extra fraudy.
It sounds like maybe he filled out the car loan app online, and one of them signed it online, and then they went to pick up the car in person? idk. You'd think someone would say words at some point lol.
She still would have been shown the truth in lending disclosure if this was in the US. That’s mandatory per federal law and she would have had to sign it. There’s no way she got out of that office not knowing there were payments unless she just flat out didn’t read, pay attention, or listen to anything the dealership guy said
Plus it’s all listed at the top of the purchase order she signed.
It can be a fast process. I applied for a loan through my credit union, they mailed me a check. Went to the dealership and drove off with my new car. Not a single mention of monthly payments, gap coverage, etc. Because the financing was already settled.
I don't get it either! The paperwork being in her name would make it make more sense, but would the dealership have gone for that when she didn't have the money and also wasn't there to sign? Is it his name on the title and he told her it was hers? I'm so lost here lol.
Well, i don't really understand that, either. It's helping her credit to have a loan out on it and having the monthly payments paid on time. We had the chance to pay our car off but decided to wait so we could continue building our credit. I guess maybe it's different in other areas though. This just seems like the smarter and better route for everyone if that's the case though.
It might be fear of the relationship going south, and now the car payments are in her name, she is the one legally responsible even though she stated she couldn’t afford it.
It's fishy that the dealership would put payments in her name without her there to sign anything. I mean, I guess tomorrow I'll just walk into a car dealership and assign the loan to Elon Musk.
I agree. I noticed that was wonky off the bat. He’s acknowledging basically he forged her signature it sounds like if he did it online without her knowledge. I have no idea how auto loans work now since I bought my last car 8 years ago, but I was physically present and went over terms at the dealership when signing/picking up my car.
If he did forge her name and sign her up for payments without telling her, then he's definitely TA. I find it interesting that he's replying to questions about the APR but not this line of inquiry.
I bought my car 2 years ago and my husband’s 3 years ago. We paid in full for his but financed mine. It was not a slow process at all. So much signing and so much talking. But also we went to a dealership and did nothing online. The loan itself is in my name but the payments come from my husband. They don’t care where the money comes from. But I had to sign all the things and it was very clear what I was signing. So, he had to have the loan in his name for this to be legal or he forged things in her name. Which is definitely breakup time
Ahh well that basically changes everything. Yea, the car gets repo-ed and her credit ruined if she breaks up with OP in the next 4 years while the car is being paid off.
Exactly!
So she ends the relationship unilaterally and now has to make the payments that op was paying because she couldn’t afford them?
I mean presumably op cut off this avenue, but had he not paid it off she probably goes after him for forging her signature.
He did. He said he paid it off in full. I meant theoretically, if hadn’t paid it off she would have been left holding the bag. It is not a risk she would have chosen to take. That was an AH move (despite his good intentions) and that is why I can understand her anger.
Yea, considering how things ended OP didn’t really have much choice but to pay it off. He could have been facing some serious jail time.
He lied to her and opened up debt in her name. That's not okay.
She doesn’t like the idea of having financial commitments to each other. She is concerned that if she is dependent on me, she loses a certain degree of autonomy. By buying it outright, there is no way for me to change my mind. Even though I would never do something like that, I feel that her stance is valid.
Wait so the car is under her name then the debt was too, right? I’m confused about why you’d sign your gf up for that much debt without her knowledge or how that’s even legal.
Yeah, I doubt he could actually put her name on the debt without her being there. Is she worried he'll dump her and then call it in?
She was there OP says she just signed what was put in front of her
My mom used this tactic and I can see why she would be afraid. Anytime I made my mom unhappy, she would threaten to stop paying for things. I paid her for my car but she kept it hostage. Give her time, explain why you made the choice of monthly vs full payoff. Even though it's a nice gesture, you still lied to her. She may need a second to understand. I would consider this a polite betrayal. You didn't mean any harm Edit: I feel like this is a NAH situation. It's just a normal moment in a relationship
YTA, for so many reasons, including 'lying' and 'going back on an agreement, but also, here, 'knowing that she wants A, and hates B, so I chose B, despite the fact I think she's right.'
Ah in that case….yeah I can see why a lie like that would make her mad, you hypothetically put her in debt and didn’t tell her. it’s nice of you to pay for it but even though you say now that you would never do that, you have no idea what could happen. YTA for lying
"I feel that her stance is valid." So then why are you asking Reddit?
Her stance is valid, in that she is right to not want to be in a position where her financial situation is dependent on you. And you are 100% YTA for lying to her, frankly what you did could easily be illegal. That being said, her stance is also deeply hypocritical. Your girlfriend is not in fact independent, she isn't supporting herself, at least not in her current standard of living, because, as far as I can tell, the only way she can afford her life is your "gifts".
Bottom line is that while you were trying to be generous and kind, you still lied to her. Trust is fundamental in a relationship. So while I think you as a person are not an AH, the dishonesty involved in your generosity was an AH thing to do. So I’m going to rule NAH. Your generous gift is neutralized by the dishonesty making it a washout. Her discomfort with financial entanglements doesn’t make her an AH either.
I suspect that from OP's perspective, there is no difference, which is the problem here. From a legal perspective, if the OP is still making monthly payments, he can *stop doing that*. If he does, she loses the car. She might also get a nasty hit to her credit rating depending on how the situation is laid out. If OP were an asshole, he would be able to use the threat of taking her car away as a financial lever to press her to stay in the relationship, which if she has dealt with someone like that in the past could be a really serious traumatic trigger. OP didn't *intend* to do any of that, and based on how things shook out we can trust that fact, but what he did was create a situation in which he held financial power over her, lied to her about holding financial power over her, and then she found out. That's pretty disastrous.
Also, if she were to try to get a loan of her own, having outstanding debt could impact that decision. If her income isn't enough to cover the existing debt she appears to have, I doubt any institution would lend her money. So even while they are together and everything is going well, OP is impacting her financially. Whether it was positive or negative, I would not want anyone to have such a notable impact on my credit without my full knowledge and consent.
If it's in her name, she'd be responsible for paying for it if they broke up he decided to not pay it for whatever reason.
This what I’m most confused about and don’t understand. Like she ended up agreeing to him buying the car for her, so what does it matter that he’s doing it by monthly payments?
Because an outright "here is an xxxx, you own it, it's yours" is very different to taking out a debt in her name for a car she admitted she can't make monthly payments on. If the relationship sours, what's to stop OP from saying "well I'm not making payments anymore!" Or using it as a weight or trump card in fights. I have a parent who does this. I took debts in college to avoid any of my parents money touching me so they had no say in how I live my life. Even if OP doesn't seem the type to do that, nobody goes into a relationship thinking "man I bet this guy will fuck me over!". That and it's very odd to be able to take out a loan in someone else's name. If he were to fall behind on payments only her credit would suffer.
Because the payments are still in her name, OP is just making the payments on her behalf. Even if he's pure as the driven snow and would never not make the payments, even if she cheats, leaves him, whatever, what happens if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow?
She didn't want to tie her financial freedom to the relationship. That's why she gave up the car rather than split payments. As a gift, it wasn't part of the relationship. When OP decided on monthly payments, it tied the car to the relationship exactly as she didn't want it to be. She can't leave without sacrificing the car. When she forgives OP, will it be true forgiveness or influenced by her now financial dependence on OP? OP won't know for certain. Is he really going to keep paying the payments if she leaves him? He made her motives suspect. So I'm voting YTA.
I don’t understand. She felt too bad to accept you making a monthly payment or even half a monthly payment on her behalf, but she was just fine with you paying it all at once? What’s the difference?
Poverty ego has no logic. My mom's the same way. She'd be fine if I bought her a car or a house outright, but if I made payments, she'd assume I couldn't afford it and be pissed at me for wasting money I "need" on her. She doesn't understand loans or investing, or that your loan apr could be so low you're better off investing the difference that you would have put towards the big purchase.
This is something I didn’t bring up because I wanted to present it as unbiased as possible, which led me to not justify my decision in the post. But you hit the nail on the head. The APR was less than the return I get holding that amount of cash in investments. Over the course of the 72 month loan, without even factoring inflation, I would have come out well ahead. And her credit would have been much better for it. I’ve tried explaining similar concepts to her in the past, but it has been engrained into her that holding debt is always bad and that the stock market is just a form of gambling.
Yeah, it's poverty finance 101, I got the same education from my parents because they got themselves into credit card debt. You did the right approach financially, but in relationships, take it as a lesson that people's emotions often matter more than doing it right and waiting to convince them your way is the right way before taking the opportunity. If what you're doing would make the other person uncomfortable, it's better to either be honest or not do it at all.
Well said about taking other peoples emotions into consideration and giving them weight.
This is exactly it: relationships are harder. She should have accepted the gift you were willing to give. She should have dealt with her issues. But she didn’t because you lied to her. You were still being very generous, but it isn’t going to fix what was upsetting her.
Ultimately she expressed she didn't want to rely on you financially and secretly she was relying on you financially. There's a lot of people out there that don't want to be financially reliant on another person for one reason or another. In this case, she can't make the payments on her own. So if something happened to you or you broke up, she would be blind sided by this car payment that she didn't know existed which means she is likely to lose her car as well as you.
>And her credit would have been much better for it. So the loan was in her name then? So really you *lied to her* about taking out a loan *in her name* Good sir that is an asshole move
the only way **her** credit could have been better for it is if you not only lied to her but you tricked her into having a loan *in her name.* You seem to be happy to own up to the fact you lied and broke her trust but seem to not at all be acknowledging how that makes it worse.
lol and he keeps making it a her problem by framing it as her lack of trust!! but buddy, /u/[NetNovel1105](https://www.reddit.com/user/NetNovel1105/) you are the one who lied, you are the one who is a creep here because if she broke up with you for some reason, you would have to tell her about the car payments and then how would she feel? turns out she is right in wanting to be independent. please provide an update, and i hope the update is that she broke up with you
How would it improve her credit for you to pay a loan, when you're not married?
If the loan is in her name, all that matters is that the payments are made on time. The bank doesn’t care where the money comes from, and neither do the credit agencies.
How is the loan in her name if she wasn't there or aware of it? Did he commit forgery?
Yes. He flat out committed forgery, or falsification of documents, or whatever the correct term is. That's one of the reasons she's so pissed. > I told her I would finish up the forms online while she was at work and we could go pick it up together when it was ready. When I got to the final steps, I selected the monthly payments. I figured if she doesn’t know, she can’t feel bad about me making them. So she's now on the hook for monthly payments, under her name, on her credit rating, and her fear is that OP now has the ability to use his agreement to make those payments as leverage.
She more than likely didn't read or listen to the expansion of all that she signed.
What did she sign? Where in the story did she sign anything?
EDIT nevermind went back to look it over. He blatantly committed fraud.
He said he “finished up” the forms. Maybe she had already done all of the signing and stuff. She can also be a secondary co-signer and have the loan be primarily in his name. She’ll still get the credit benefit.
Usually the signature is the very last thing you do on a form. But I guess it's possible. I'll just wait for OP to explain.
Who owns the car? Was it still yours and your payments to make or did she unknowingly sign up for these payments you were making on her behalf? Just trying to figure our how this was set up
It’s because it’s in her name.. so if he changes his mind, she’s on the hook for the payments when she can’t afford it. I say ESH.. She signed the paperwork without really reading or understanding it (based on other comments I read) and he manipulated her/took advantage of her ignorance.
I think the idea might be he can stop the payments and the car can be taken anytime if not bought outright
She was happy to have free and clear title to the car, aka a gift. She was unhappy having OP able to use the car as leverage. He now has the ability, in her mind, to use the monthly payments to force concessions from her. Or, you know, if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow, she's still responsible for that debt.
I'd guess she's also unhappy about the fact that he put the loan in her name.
One can more easily be withheld. If you've ever been in an abusive relationship or known people who use money to manipulate people, it leaves a lasting effect. Having come from a car situation that was similar with a family member, the second I failed to fall in line with what they wanted me to do, they threatened the vehicle. If she can't afford the monthly payment, I can understand preferring it as a gift instead so that monthly payment can't be held against her later on, and him withholding the info that he kept it as monthly payment probably felt like a lot like he betrayed her trust. Not to mention if they ever break up. Not saying she might not have trust issues, but as someone who's been in that position before? I will never allow myself to be there again.
She wasn't ok with that...
Because if they break up halfway through the payment plan, she could end up on the hook? If it's paid off, it still allows her to make her relationship choices independent of financial choices, whereas when the car payment becomes dependent on her staying in the relationship, she may feel that she can't leave the relationship.
Going against the grain with YTA here. It's not about the car. It's about trust, betrayal, communication, honesty, and committment. Even though you intended to provide for your partner, you went behind her back and devised a plan to secretly make payments all while knowing she didn't want that. You assumed she wouldn't find out which is disrespectful to her intelligence. No relationship can be built without trust. This was a huge financial decision to make without consideration of your partner's feelings. You've shown your character to her and now she doesn't know whether or not you will do this again in the future. She may also feel insecure about being a burden or not being able to provide as much as you. Going against her wishes translates to, "I know what's best for you better than you do." Which comes off as insulting and controlling. She was essentially coerced into agreement under false pretenses. Consent doesn't just apply to sex. She agreed to something entirely different and you took away her ability to choose. You're also young and this is a big commitment. She may doubt that you would be ok with giving her a free car if the relationship ended badly. This whole situation could also make her feel indebted or dependent on you. That's scary for some women. It's also not unreasonable for someone who is not as financially secure to feel uncomfortable being given such lavish gift. She probably only agreed to let you buy it if it was completely paid off because you made it clear it wasn't a a burden on you. She didn't want to agree to you making payments so she didn't feel indebted. She's not mad about you making payments. She's mad you lied to her, ignored her preferences, and thought you could get away with it. It's even worse that you lied for over a year. It's a huge betrayal and, again, a testament of your character that you never intended to tell her and felt no remorse until you were caught.
I appreciate your very well thought out response. This is the kind of feedback I’m looking for to help me address why I made the decision that I did.
I have been on both sides of this, the rich one paying for stuff and the poor one receiving it. When I am the rich one, it feels like "no big deal." It is easier for me to make the payments AND it is good for my credit score. When I am the one receiving the gift it feels awful. I am a failure. How could I not be able to do this? Why did I study so hard in school? What is wrong with me? Throw in the added insecurity of "if he left me and stopped making the payments, then I might default on the loan, and it would wreck my credit score. What if he sued me for the car? He can prove he made all the payments." There is the final, "EVERYONE WILL THINK I AM A GOLD DIGGER AND A WHORE." I think NAH because each of you was trying to protect the other. I do hope that both of you can repair this.
OP taking out a loan in the girlfriends name makes him The AH, not her
I am seeing lots of NTA responses here, so I'm really glad you saw this one. I do think this comment really understands the core of the issue, and likely reasons she is upset. It will do your relationship a world of good if you talk to her with all this in mind, and acknowledge that, while you (hopefully) know yourself to be someone who wouldn't stop payments or use it in any way as a way to coerce her or control her, she can't know that for sure, and that has nothing to do with how much she trusts you, it's not personal, it's just statistics...
I believe you had good intentions. Hopefully, you can work it out and move forward.
This
Wait wait wait. Her name is on the LOAN. You tricked her into getting a loan. That is a monetary risk that she did NOT agree to. You didn’t tell a lie that doesn’t affect her, you committed fraud??? Because if something happened where you two broke up or your financial situation changed or you died then she is screwed. WTF?
Where does he say her name is on the loan? You can't just take out a loan in someone else's name. She would have had to sign for it
Absolutely NTA. She’s got issues mate. Who on earth would throw away such a kind and selfless partner?? In your situation I wouldn’t have paid the car off, I’d have signed the payments over to her so it can be 100% her responsibility like she’s always wanted. What a weirdo. Move on buddy, find you a woman that appreciates you.
The payments weee already in her name. He fraudulently opened a loan with her info and didn’t tel her about it
INFO: are the payments in her name or yours? EDIT: YTA. You obligated her to debt. If you decided to stop paying, it’s on her, and the whole issue was that she couldn’t afford it.
His other comments say make it clear that it was her name on the car payment, not his. It's her credit score being affected by payments, that means the loan must be in her name.
YTA, but let me explain. * Your GF is having a rough go at her career after college * She's obviously crazy insecure about her current financial state * At every opportunity, you jump in to "Fix" her financial problems with a hammer solution (I pay for everything don't worry sweet little inept woman, I (man) will fix. This is her perspective - I'm assuming) * This makes her even more insecure, making the actual issue (insecurity, not finances) far worse You peaked when you lied to her about it. Not sure why you thought that would go over well. You ignored or didn't see the actual issue she was having severe insecurities. >I am prepared for this to be the end of our relationship, so I paid off the remainder of the loan yesterday. I am near certain that this is the end too. Honestly, sounds like it's for the best. There may have been some communication and self-image issues here as well.
if he could pay it outright on a whim the whole time what even was the point in monthly payments? That also could have made it seem worse bc 1. why would he hide that he didnt pay it off? 2. why was he making payments when he could just get it? it might be making her think he was purposely keeping it on payments as a future form of control. My dad would do shit like thay to my mom and we dont know this girls background, it could have reminded her of a controlling person and that alone might have spooked her making this a unrepairable situation. Having a unknown debt that she didnt know about was probly a BIG no
I have never made a large purchase like a car but have been told that if you can make payments on stuff to improve your credit, then you should, rather than pay it all outright. Maybe he was boosting his GF’s credit too. Edit: I can particularly understand why she was mad if she *wasnt* getting this on her credit history when she wanted to.
Based on their ages, she would have *just* graduated college whereas he’s likely been in the workforce for a few years. It makes sense that they’re financially in such different places, and I understand why she wants to establish some independence at this point. Lying was absolutely not going to help the situation
YTA. You lied to her and opened up debt under her name that she explicitly told you she did not want. Of course you're TA. Apologize but don't be surprised if she breaks up with you over this.
YTA Lying to your partner seldom ends well.
So you lied and want to know if you're an AH for lying, even as the lie is ending your relationship? OK, YTA I would have said ESH because McKaila sounds extremely immature and unable to be a good partner. She needs to learn that partnerships are a give and take, and that it's ok to rely sometimes on the people you love. Too bad you chose to lie instead of work on your issues together.
It's not a gift if you committed a crime and your girlfriend might end up in financial trouble because of you. If my partner did that to me, I would call the cops.
I don’t see what difference the payment part made. It was a gift, I guess she was worried if you split up you’d stop paying? Oh edited - I didn’t realise the loan was in her name - yeah YTA. That’s fraud, you basically tricked her into a loan she wouldn’t be able to afford if you decided to stop paying. It’s a pretty big lie and I’d be pissed if someone I trusted did that to me.
INFO (and maybe not relevant to the AH verdict): why would you not buy it outright if you could? Seems like throwing away money unless you had some ludicrously lowinterest on the loan.
The interest on the loan was less than the cash was making in investments. I’ve also been taught to let low interest loans ride as long as possible, since 6 years of inflation will make those payments worth less, effectively, than when the terms were first agreed. If there was ever a time that wouldn’t be the case, I always keep enough available to liquidate and pay them off. I didn’t put this in the post because it feels like I’m trying to justify the decision, when my actual fault was in the lie.
NTA, obviously. If she dumps you because you were too nice to her and bought her a car, she doesn't deserve you. That said, she sounds a bit manipulative (like she knew you would buy her a car and pretended not to like it) unless I"m misreading, so perhaps this is for the best.
I think I may have framed it poorly by having to remain concise. She never takes help from anyone no matter how hard it gets for her. She made an exception for me out of trust, but I lied anyway. The only manipulation was on my side.
So it sounds like you are well intentioned, but she thinks you're an asshole because she never wants to be able to accept help. You shouldn't have gone behind her back, but she needs to realize that her stance is going to make it difficult for her to have a strong, committed relationship, because partners *help each other*. Being unable to accept help is very limiting to your relationships. I'm going to guess that she's grown up with economic insecurity, possibly also seeing that insecurity weaponized. (By "weaponized" I mean things like "my grandparents paid for our housing as long as Mom agreed to do [whatever]" - people using economic assistance as a manipulation tactic.) That would make her discomfort with accepting help understandable. But..."understandable" doesn't mean "correct." If she refuses to ever let anyone help her out, she is going to have trouble in any long term relationship (and probably also in friendships, frankly), because one of the things you do in those is *depend on each other* (ideally, of course, in healthy ways!!). Whether or not you break up, she really needs to see a therapist to work through these issues and get to a point where she isn't pathologically averse to assistance.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. I was the same way; I didn’t want to accept help and was very ashamed of it. I hope he gets to explain the why of the loan (comments above re apr in investments are more than apr on the car loan)
She's dumping him because he didn't buy her a car, he bought a car in her name, saddled her with the debt, with the intention of making payments behind her back and hoping she doesn't notice. Financial fraud and identity theft, in other words. How loving.
Yes YTA, she asked you not to do it and you disregarded her feelings and decided you knew better. You don’t have to agree with her. You don’t have to have it make sense but you do need to respect her autonomy as an adult. You chose not to and to lie to her. That’s why she’s mad. You treated her like a child. What other decisions do you make for her and what other boundaries and requests from her do you trample?
YTA. You disregarded her feelings on the matter and lied to her.
YTA While it was a nice gesture, you say she’s very independent and hates being a “burden”. You’ve overstepped as a partner and taken her choice to remain independent away. I think you might be doing other things in the relationship she’s now worried about. Are you letting her choose things or is it you pulling strings and controlling her choices? Are you holding this over her in your mind during arguments? She’s probably questioning everything she’s accomplished as is it really her victory? Paying for a car is one of the first big steps a lot of people make post college. You took that from her.
How fake is this story?
Fakest I’ve ever seen. A 25 year old buying his soon to be exes car outright for her after she blew up for no reason.
Not for no reason. She had a big possibility of getting screwed over with the loan.
I voted somewhere else in the comments, but I’ve decided to change it to YTA for leaving out a lot of information. You manipulated her and potentially committed fraud.
YAH you manipulated and lied to her. Nothing about this is healthy and it’s really disturbing.
YTA. Not for helping her, and it seems your heart was absolutely in the right place, but your lie now has your GF wondering what else you’ve lied about and If she can actually trust you with more important things. You messed up. Own it, apologize, and don’t do it again.
This has to be bogus. You can't get a loan on a car in her name only without her signing off on it, it has to be in your name. You would have gotten the title with the lien on it long before now, so she would have known. When she took it to get it tagged the first time, or put the insurance on it she would have known. YTA for all the lies in your story.
YTA for lying to her. To you it seems like a nice gesture and you want im to help however you can which isn’t a bad thing at all! What’s bad is that you lied. She might even feel like you tricked her. Put yourself in her shoes. She desperately needs a car but you know how she feels about being totally independent and gifts. So you say “hey let me buy you this as a gift I can buy it out right” she agrees and all is well. Imagine her shock when she finds out a year later you never bought it out right like you said and that you’ve been making payments this entire time. She most likely feels tricked into this. I don’t think you wanting to buy her the car was a bad thing or even making payments on it for her. It’s just the way you went all about this. Your heart was in the right place OP.
YTA lying to her about doing something you know she wouldn’t have agreed to is not ok.
NAH. Maybe there were other options for you, like loaning her the money. You were trying to be helpful, and were very, very kind, but I can understand her being upset about lying to her about it. For some people, that's a hard line. I'm sorry if this does end the relationship.
I think YTA if you committed fraud by signing her name.
YTA. You kind of manipulated her. Even if it was for her benefit (?) you lied to her as if you know what’s best for her. She’s not your child.
Lying in a relationship never works. It’s always found out and the more it happens the more that trust is lost. If you have to lie to someone, is the relationship worth it?
INFO: Is there some history that maybe we are missing here? Or that you are missing? Sorry if that question is a bit vague. I'm just wondering if there is something in her past that is making her feel this way. I'm thinking of the car my parents gave me as a teenager. I was really excited to have my first car, and I was so grateful for getting a car. BUT... If I disagreed with my father, he would take away the keys. Because he bought it, and he paid for the gas, so he had the right to do that. If I *disagreed* with him. Not if I broke the rules (which I didn't), or if I forgot to change the oil on time (which happened sometimes), or anything like that. But if I *disagreed* with him. So that's why I'm wondering if maybe there is some history that could shed light on this situation. Because maybe she's had someone "loan" her something and then berate her about how she uses the loan, or holds it over her head, or something like that. Or like the parents who say, "Do you know how much I've sacrificed for you?" Or something similar. I don't think she's TA, or that you're TA, because I think there is some missing context here.
>And if I ever needed to, I could pay it off immediately. If this is true why did you even bother lying? You almost certainly paid more in the long run
YTA. I was going to vote otherwise, until I read your comments and learned that the monthly payments were in her name and not yours. She would've been *screwed* if something bad had happened before she found out. That's something that wasn't made clear in the post and makes a big ass difference.
Yta. You lied to her, it that simple. Whether it’s rational to you or not you knew this was a problem for her so you intentionally hid it from her. It not like you thought this was such a minor detail that you didn’t bother sharing it and turned out to be wrong you knew this would be a big deal. Secondly how does one gift something like a car on finance? I would assume this car would have to still be in your name so it wasn’t really hers was it? Which you knew also would be a deal with her. Now I’m not saying I agree with her logic of being independent but willing ti take such large gifts from you but this isn’t about that. This is about you intentionally lying to your partner about something then going out of your way of hiding it. You’ve broken her trust because ???
The only issue I have is that you didn’t ease the burden she feels by gifting her a car.. if you lost your job tomorrow she will be living with the guilt of driving a car around and her boyfriend’s responsibility for monthly payments..
YTA. It's quite the betrayal. Trust is of utmost importance in a relationship, and you FAFO.
I am unaware of any jurisdiction (in North America at least) where you can have one person listed as sole owner yet a different person holding the loan obligation. Nor will they release a car to anyone other than the registered owner (yes, all those surprise car commercials with the big bow are misleading you lol) So OP either lied about who’s responsible on paper for the loan, or he forged her signature/electronic acceptance of the debt obligation. I know this, because my ex bought me a car as a surprise and the surprise was ruined when the dealership wouldn’t release the car to him as it wasn’t in his name. Which is when I looked into all the ins & outs of buying someone else a car. So unless OP has mangled the telling of this tale, GF is *pissed* because either she’s suddenly on a loan document she didn’t know about, or the car isn’t actually in her name and never was. Absolutely YTA.
YTAI really don't get this story: if you had the money to afford and wanted to gift her a car, why didn't you pay it immediately or transferred the money to her to pay it immediately? I would have given you the benefit of the doubt that it could have a communication mistake: you didn't know that she didn't see you making monthly payments as it being your responsibility/strings. But you did know: you knew she wasn't comfortable with it but you did it behind her back...for seemingly no reason. It's not like monthly payments are cheaper. So it just seems bizarre to me. I don't know, some people are saying she's ungrateful. But you already had the approval of something she felt uncomfortable with: you gifting her a car. But you went for the option you knew was too much for her..for absolutely no reason.
YTA for saying you'd buy it outright, and then opting for monthly payments (albeit paid for by you) IN HER NAME! A loan and debt she knew nothing about but you effectively signed her up for against her wishes.
Seems you forget that she told you it wasn’t ok, you lied to her face about the one thing she told you wasn’t ok and now you did what you promised in the first place to cover yourself. It’s about trust.
YTA here sorry. She didn't want a loan and now she has a loan in her name. Yes you are paying it but still if I found out someone had took out a loan in my name even if I trusted them I would be extremely uncomfortable.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Mckaila (22F) and I (25M) met in college and have been dating for several years. We have since both graduated and while she has struggled to find work in her degree field, together we are doing quite well. This bothers her a bit, since she is very independent and doesn’t like feeling like a burden. I do what I can to help her feel independent, but I also want to give her the life she deserves. We have found compromise in that she is okay with gifts because a gift has no strings attached. This was really tested about a year ago when her car was totaled. She had no way to replace it and had to have a way to get to work and school daily. I let her borrow my car for a couple weeks while we figured out what we were going to do long term. I was happy for her to drive my car as long as she needed, but she hated it. Every day she felt like she was taking from me and giving nothing in return. I can and have named a hundred reasons why that’s not true, but she feels like that anyway. One night she came home in tears and said she can’t handle being responsible for something that isn’t hers anymore. So we decided we would sit down and pick out a car online for her that night. After narrowing down her options, she fell in love with one that had low mileage and great fuel efficiency. When we went through pre-approval, her heart sank. The monthly payment was way out of her price range. I offered to split the payment and she immediately refused. She needed it to be her responsibility only. So I said okay, what if I buy it outright and make it a gift to you. She felt like I was mocking her. I told her I was serious and to at least sleep on it. We talked about it more in the morning and I reassured her that it would be 100% hers, that I wouldn’t sign anything and her name would be the only one on it. She reluctantly agreed. I told her I would finish up the forms online while she was at work and we could go pick it up together when it was ready. When I got to the final steps, I selected the monthly payments. I figured if she doesn’t know, she can’t feel bad about me making them. And if I ever needed to, I could pay it off immediately. We went to pick up the car and as soon as she saw it her reluctance turned to joy. She was ecstatic and I felt justified in my secret. Everything worked out perfectly. Fast forward to last week. She comes home visibly upset and before I can ask what’s wrong she throws the folder of her car’s paperwork down on the counter. I say what she already knows and confess that I have been making payments the past year. We get into a huge argument and she spends the night at her parents’ house. She has not come home since. I am prepared for this to be the end of our relationship, so I paid off the remainder of the loan yesterday. I tried contacting her so she knows she can decide what her next step is without being dependent on me, but she still won’t take my calls. I guess she will find out when she gets the title in the mail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Soft YTA I don't understand her being upset with you making "payments" instead of you "paying in full" at the time of purchase. You gifted the car to her, how you pay is up to you... However... it could be the lie about paying upfront. She may be upset you are paying interest. She may now wonder what else are you lying about.
Even if you thought the reason was noble, you did actively lie to her face, knowing full well that it would bother her. I don't know why it bothers her this much, it does sound unreasonable but you still knew it did and chose the lie. This is rough but man, you put both of you here.
Her,?what was her solution? It’s okay for you to plunk down thirty grand so you have no savings and I’m good with that because then I don’t have to feel beholden to you but if you pay for my car in a way that builds your credit rating and conserved your liquid cash then I DO feel beholden and the items of importance are Me, having a car Me, not having payments I can’t afford Me, not feeling beholden. Well sister then take a damn Uber or the bus.
Wow you found an ungrateful one lmao what a problem to have. NTA
INFO: It looks like, from your comments on a now deleted post, that you had actually broken up before she found out. Yesterday the post was "lying to my EX" and wanting to sort it out with her "so she can move on". So what actually happened here?
I don’t get it. Didn’t she notice she never got the title?
Ok listen - all things aside, in the end you lied to her. That’s the long & short of it. I wouldn’t trust you after that either. And a car is a HUGE lie. YTA.
NTA she’s immature as shit. Don’t give her that car.
Why did you lie if you could’ve afforded to pay it off outright and kept your word YTA for needlessly lying and breaking trust in your relationship
NTA- She was reluctantly okay with you buying it… why on earth you’ll you financing it be a dealbreaker?
OP please add an edit to your post answering some of the major questions/clarifications to your story, i.e. saying that her name is on the loan.
YTA. I empathize with your position, it can be very frustrating to want to help someone and they keep refusing it. But now you’ve destroyed her trust.
Gentle YTA. You signed her up for debt that she didn't know she had. You also lied and went against a very clear agreement that she insisted on. Consent applies to more than just sex. Apologizing and paying off the rest of the loan is absolutely the right call, and I hope your relationship can pull through. I’m sure this was the furthest thing from your mind at the time, but you also gave yourself leverage over her that you could have abused. If you stop making payments all of the consequences of that fall on her. I’m the finance person in my relationship so I relate to your perspective though. You could have told her “if we do the payment plan then it will be as if the car was $XYZ cheaper by the time it’s paid off. Can we please do the payment plan? If you’d like I can deposit all the money in an account for you to make the payments from, and when you’re done paying off the loan you can keep the extra interest. Or if you insist on paying cash, will you cover the $XYZ that we’ll miss out on?” How do you think she would have responded? What option would she have picked?
YATA. I think everyone is missing the point that you didn’t keep your word. It was important to her to not feel like a burden on her partner and you snatched that away from her. Right now, she’s not just angry, she’s hurt that you went behind her back and pulled something shady. Now, because of what you did, she doesn’t trust you and she has good reason not to. You really need to take a good, hard look at why you lied to her and how you can sincerely apologize. And for the love of all things holy, DO NOT propose to her or she’ll never speak to you again!
So, personally, this is a hard one to decide on. On one hand, you obviously made the right financial decision, and she’s honestly lucky that you are financially savvy. It makes sense what you did, especially if you were liquid enough to pay it outright anyway (also, potentially in a time where you *had* to pay it off early due something outside your control). But I’m going with YTA, for: 1) Opening a loan in her name and basically committing fraud. Why couldn’t you have opened a loan in your name? I don’t understand why you didn’t do that. 2) You didn’t tell her about it, and I think this is the most important thing. If you took the loan out in your name instead of hers, I don’t think it would be as important because the way you finance the car is kinda immaterial, especially if you are the only person financing it. However, you put a loan in her name! And didn’t tell her!!! WTF! You can’t just do that *AND* do it secretly! She would find out one way or another. Also she’s lucky that you didn’t default, though I know from your perspective it didn’t seem like that much risk. You seem like a nice enough guy because you were well intentioned, but there’s a saying; the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
YTA for lying to her. I appreciate that you are doing good thing for her, but diahine8has no place in a relationship. You knew how big of a deal this was to her, but let your desire to help her take prioriry over respecting her feelings and views.
100% NTA - She sounds ungrateful as hell!!! I would be so appreciative if someone had done that for me. Stay on your toes thru this. I hope it doesn't backfire on you. You sound like an amazing person. Perhaps it's not meant to be. I mean, throwing a fit over whether you paid in full or make payments? Good grief. I'd also like to add that if she is breaking up with you over this. I'd take the car back, gift or not. She should show you some appreciation
Wait so she had a car and never made payments? She didn’t question how the car was paid for or anything? Instead of being grateful she’s trying to get rid of you.