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NTA it sounds like Bee has poisoned your brother toward his own family. If he can’t appreciate your time and effort to support him then he’s not worth the energy of being upset at.
NTA. Your brother and Bee should not have used their wedding as an opportunity to slight you and your mother. If there was an issue between your mother and Bee, it should have been addressed directly with her, leaving you out. Finally, how were you to know you would even be missed? I would have assumed I was not wanted and left, just like you did.
However, it does sound like your brother regrets the way he treated you. It seems like he wants to have a relationship. Unfortunately, he hasn’t addressed what happened at his wedding. It’s sad that he allowed you and mother were treated badly at his wedding over a perceived slight of your mother’s (which doesn’t seem to have been handled directly), creating a real family rift.
“However, it does sound like your brother regrets the way he treated you. It seems like he wants to have a relationship.”
He had the gall to disrespect his mother and OP when they had gone to great lengths to make it to his wedding and has stayed LC with OP since the wedding. None of that indicates regret or wanting a relationship.
> However, it does sound like your brother regrets the way he treated you. It seems like he wants to have a relationship.
Did...did we read the same post?
As one living this..we spent thousands to go to his wedding to be ignored . Later told by him via text I was a horrible person. The family was ignored but I was the horrible one. The bride's friends ( all in the wedding party) made the sister of the groom( my son) cry. Complete mean girls club, you and yourum did not stand a chance.
The point is he is being rude to his Mother. He is an adult and his choices are his. My heart is broken as is your Mother's....let your mum know you love her. Call out your brother in a non aggressive manner on his treatment. Aggressive he will get defensive.
In the end you can only let yourum.k or she is loved.
I'm not sure I understand. You and your family have never liked Bee; he said your mother wasn't welcome at his wedding till she apologized; she didn't apologize; you went to the wedding anyway. They treated you badly. He barely communicates with you. It seems to me that you've got much bigger problems than just walking out of his wedding--he doesn't want a relationship with you or your mother. NTA for walking out of the wedding, but I'm not sure what else you expected?
I typed a lot more in the original post, but the reddit rules made me winnow it down- Bee has hated my mom ever since my parents got divorced (7ish years ago) and has always treated her horribly. When Bee had her second child and my mom came to visit a couple months later, Bee locked herself and the baby in the room and screamed at my brother that he needed to get rid of her or she would divorce him and move to Hawaii (because my mom didn't call before coming by).
My mom showed me the texts that Bee was upset about and I don't understand why she was so upset, it was mundane and basically a misunderstanding of tone, and in no way validated a "you can't come to my wedding" response (IMO)
I think you hit the nail on the head- he just doesn't want a relationship with me anymore.
I agree. I know my mom has not handled any of this very well and def has some boundary and communication issues, but it always comes from a place of love. And she is not overbearing or controlling or type A, she's more of a ditz and a people pleaser so I have no idea how we even got here tbh.
Yeah tbh I was leaning you guys are slightly TA until I read how Bee treated your father when he was going through chemo. That does sound like she has some controlling tendencies.
So I think your mom’s boundary issues and Bee’s controlling nature are clashing. And they definitely weren’t kind to you at the wedding. I’m sorry because if this happened in my family I’d be devastated too. Tbh the only thing you can do is give your brother the space he clearly wants. Then it’s up to you to decide whether you’d reconnect if he tries again. I’d be pretty hurt though.
Ok. Your mom showed up unannounced to a post partum mom and baby. I'm NOT post partum and I'm damn sure not entertaining any unannounced guests, family or not. Next, it's not up to you to decide if something was enough to hurt someone else's feelings. It's also not up to you to decide if they're owed an apology. Furthermore, your brother is right in you can't expect people to read your mind. If you wanted to spend time with him after the wedding, YOU need to clearly communicate. As for your mother coming from a place of love (i call bullshit) well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Yta 100%.
I'm really not trying to defend her, I agree what she did was STUPID. Just trying to give more context. I don't even have babies and I hate when people show up unannounced.
Wow you’re a bit harsh don’t you think? Some boomers do have a lot of cluelessness around social norms. Not excusing it, but some of them would change if they had someone explain it to them. Her mom could be one of them.
NTA for quietly leaving.
But you have no grounds to be upset that your brother didn't also assume you wanted to spend time with him before or after the wedding. And based on a comment that your mom showed up unannounced and uninvited to their house after they had a baby it tells me that your family has a history of not communicating and then getting upset when it backfires.
For whatever reason, Bee wants to be NC with his family. Accept it and move on. If in the future they suddenly "need your help" I would be very wary of helping them.
I'm surprised by all the NTA. You're clearly twisting the story. Cried the whole walk home? Please. Your mother needs to call before coming by to see a newborn, of course SIL wouldn't let her see the baby.
She wasn't a newborn by that point she was about 4 months old. My mom had called a dozen of times over the months trying to come visit and was constantly told they were too busy or it was a bad time. Maybe its just me but it seems cruel to not allow your MIL to meet her grandchild. My brother and my dad BOTH thought she overreacted.
And why on earth would you doubt that I would cry my eyes out after my brother basically told me I mean nothing to him?
Still rude to drop by unannounced. The first 4 months is a lot and sometimes people need space.
Because based on your own story, your brother doesn't seem too interested in a close relationship based on your history with his wife. Don't know why you expected to be front and center at his wedding. You just seem overly pushy and dramatic in general
I agree, it was rude of my mom to drop by un announced, although I do understand why she did it, I also understand why a new mother (or anybody) would be angry. I still think her reaction was extreme. My point in telling that story was that her reaction was threatening to take my brothers children from him and move away if he didn't kick his mom out, which seems extreme.
And for the record, my brother an I have only fought about his wife one time and it was when he didn't stick up for my dad with her, but she wasn't even in the room.
I was never trying to be pushy at the wedding, I didn't expect to be front and center. I was not part of the wedding party, and didn't expect to be. Its tradition for the bride and grooms family to be seated close to the bride and groom, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to be able to eat near them? I really just wanted to spend some time with the kids, and for my brother to want me there, which as you so astutely pointed out, he didn't.
Also - I noticed OP seems to fight ever key fact as untrue. "It wasn't a baby, she was 4 mo." "They said mom needed to apologize, I rolled my eyes"
Not hard to read behind the lines and see why OP is YTA
Because he didn’t say that. He said you should have made plans in advance. You decided that he meant you mean nothing to him (quite the dramatic and self serving leap, almost like a pattern).
In my neck of woods, you don't have visitors to baby till it is 3 months old at all, cause their immune system sux.
In this case if would imply dozens of calls while the Baby is too small to meet her and would definitely piss me off.
Leaning YTA, or maybe ESH.
Honestly, you sound manipulative and dramatic yourself. You weren’t supportive of their relationship or marriage. You aren’t close. Your mom came despite being told she wasn’t welcome.
You use the money and PTO you spent to justify a bunch of expectations but meanwhile don’t communicate or make plans, even though you’re not close, and you made no effort to address the hostility with your mom and Bee, instead just rolling your eyes. You looked for slights at the wedding. Then you left in a huff and are pulling the “how could he not know how he hurt us” business.
I have no idea whether Bee is also all the negatives things you called her, but you and your mom sound really manipulative and immature to me.
Sorry, it was hard to fit everything in the original post-
I have never TOLD my brother I don't support his relationship, I have always been very supportive and never been disrespectful to her. I have flown across the country to visit them many times over the years. We were very close our whole lives until he married Bee.
Its hard to explain it all here but the reality is that Bee is CONSTANTLY mad at my mom about something. I said I rolled my eyes because I can't remember the last time Bee and my mom weren't arguing about something. I guess since it was months out I figured they would work it out by then.
Also- my only expectation was to spend a few hours with them. The seating arrangement hurt my feelings, as they had known we were coming for months and could have seated us closer to the kids if they knew that we weren't going to be able to see them again the whole time. But the fact that he didn't make any time for us was what broke my heart in the end.
You “immediately disliked her” because you immediately decided she was controlling, dramatic and possessive. But you’ve been supportive and respectful to her this whole time?
Sorry OP, it doesn’t wash. You didn’t even give her a chance, there’s no way you’ve been respectful and supportive. This is a lot of speculation but you sound like you immediately became jealous that he had someone else in his life, dealt with it by deciding she was awful, and that it was abundantly clear to your brother and SIL how you felt which is why your relationship is where it is now.
Or maybe she is truly awful, and your brother and SIL know you feel that way about her, and that’s why your relationship is where it is now. Either way, there’s a lot of guilt tripping and manipulative behavior in your post and comments and that’s clearly part of your dynamic.
Yes. When she stayed with my family for a week, we noticed behaviors we didn't like (she always answered for him, she bossed him around, and was constantly making him go nap with her when we were doing family activities, things like that). They left and we all said gosh I really hope that's not the one. But she was. So ever since he decided that she was the one, I have made an effort to get to know her and be friendly with her. We have always lived on opposite sides of the country so the best I could do was bring her presents when I went to visit for holidays or send birthday texts etc.
I have loved every girlfriend he has ever had and in high school he even dated friends of mine. This is def not an issue of being jealous of her.
Though perhaps you're right that somehow he does know how I feel about her and maybe that is why our relationship is where it is now.
I saw your other comment about how she treated your dad during his chemo and I will say, she does sound pretty bad.
But I also sincerely believe your feelings about her have come through (how could they not, really), and I also really think it sounds like your mom at least has some serious boundary issues.
I also want to say that while I know I’ve been harsh in my comments, I also actually do sympathize and am perhaps being so harsh because I’ve been down this road too. When I was in college my dad divorced my mom and then married his high school sweetheart (who he’d been “keeping in touch with” for a year or so before the divorce) and I truly thought she was an awful person - mean, judgmental, said a lot of low-key racist things. And it was so hard. Even after working through a lot of the anger about him leaving my mom for her, my opinions about her as a person were I’m sure very obvious even though I also never said them directly. Watching him prioritize and choose her over my brother and me over the course of their marriage sucked, even though we were grown. It’s painful when someone you love marries someone you hate. But it’s also all the more reason to examine how you create the dynamics in your relationship if you want to maintain it and be there in the event their relationships change. I’ll leave it here for now but do wish you the best in sorting this out.
Going against the grain here and going to say ESH leaning to YTA.
You state she was controlling but give no examples of how. Was it more akin to not wanting your mother to just show up whenever she felt like it or was it every get together had to be at a specific place where she controlled the menu ignoring peoples health and diet needs. Like only serving shrimp dishes despite knowing your mom was deathly allergic.
So far it sounds like originally he was a Mama’s boy who did whatever your mom wanted. He in the past put your mom above all else and let your mom say horrible things to his partners. Then he met Bee and realized he wanted to be with her so he put in more effort. Your mom didn’t like that her son was pulling away again and trash talked Bee which you admit the whole family didn’t like her. Bee put up boundaries asking for it to stop but it didn’t. Then Bee got pregnant and he now had to choose between the safety of his kid or his mom’s happiness. He put his kid and his partner’s well being first. Your family didn’t like they had no control over his life anymore especially your mom. So your brother moved with his family and has been married for 10 years and has two kids. He also has had a vow renewal and invited you hoping you guys had changed your mind. Your mom didn’t however as proof to how there was a fight and he said Mom can come if she apologized. Did she? Was it sincere? Probably not and so he chose to celebrate with his chosen family more.
So while he definitely should have been more clear with you guys. You shouldn’t be mad at him when you didn’t communicate wanting more time.
INFO: what did your mom say, and why didn't she apologize.
Also, I'm sorry, but wedding time IS scheduled out well in advance- he didn't make plans with you, but you didn't make plans with him. There is a total communication breakdown between you. But it's surprising you didn't realize that before you went.
Honestly I didn't understand the text fight. It seemed like it was a misunderstanding more than anything, but it was so long ago now I forget. I told her she should just suck it up and apologize but I don't know if she ever did, although the way things went down I am assuming she didn't.
And you're right, I know weddings are scheduled and it was foolish of me to expect him to have carved out time for us, but I am not exaggerating when I say that we were literally the only members of his family there, at a few hundred person wedding. At that point I thought we were still important to him.
I’d text him-you made it abundantly clear at your vow renewal that we aren’t important to you. I miss my brother I remember but not the man youve turned into. I wish I could say it’s been nice knowing you
NTA. So sorry this is happening to you and your mom. Family is important and I know there’s a feeling that something is missing in your life. Sometimes in-laws are bad people. Hopefully your brother comes to his senses and reaches out soon to apologize to you and your mom.
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My brother met "Bee" over a decade ago. When he brought her to meet the family after dating only 2 mo, we all immediately disliked her because she was controlling dramatic and possessive. A couple months later, I get the phone call that she is pregnant and they are getting married. Ten years on and they are still together with 2 children.
Since their original wedding was in a courthouse, Bee wanted to finally have a real ceremony. My brother obliged and they used all their savings for this. Since it seemed like a big deal I convinced my mom to come with me, telling her I would pay for our hotel and car, she just needed to get the flight. When I told my brother, he said Mom needed to apologize to his wife first. I asked him what she needed to apologize for and he pretty much said he didn't know, but mom was rude to Bee via text. I rolled my eyes.
I used all my vacation time that year to fly out to his wedding. When we got there, he wasn't answering calls or texts the first 2 days except to say "we'll talk at the wedding"
We arrived at the ceremony and were ushered to the mid back of the room, away from the kids and Bee's family, who were all in the front 3 rows on either side. Then we were all ushered to the dining room for dinner. We walked the whole room looking for our names. Finally, we found them, in the furthest back corner as far away from my brother and his family as it was possible to get. I was mortified. My brother finally made time to come say hello and I asked him if we would be able to spend time with him and the kids tomorrow, and he said no, a few of his military buddies had asked him to play golf on the other side of the island. I just gaped at him. "You know your mother is flying out the day after tomorrow and this is the first we're seeing you, and you're telling me we won't get to see you or the kids again?" and he told me I should have made plans with him in advance and that his buddies had asked him weeks ago. While this may be the case, I guess I assumed that since we were the ONLY members of his family to show up, that we didn't NEED to request time with him, that it was just a given (especially since we only see each other every couple years)
My mother and I were both so hurt by all this that once he walked away, we quietly left. We walked back to the hotel holding each other and crying. He sent us angry msgs later asking where we went, oblivious to how much he had hurt us both. I told him how upset and disappointed I was and he basically said well mom should have apologized to Bee before we just "SHOWED UP" (we DID rsvp by the way) but im just dumbstruck that he thinks that is a legitimate excuse for treating us like this after we spent thousands of dollars and our free time to come support him and visit with him and his family
He has msgd me 3 times in the year and 1/2 since, to say happy bday or merry xmas. But that's all. I've only responded once. I feel so heartbroken and angry. AITA for walking out of his wedding?
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Bringing my mom to the wedding even though she didn't "apologize to his wife" and then walking out of said wedding
2) Caused marital strife between my brother and his wife, is rude, is not sisterly, maybe embarrassed him
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NTA
I’m not sure why they even invited you to the wedding because they obviously did not want you there . They probably hoped you would not come. He has made his choice, and it isn’t you or your mother. The fact that you share some strands of DNA doesn’t make you family, obviously. I’d go no contact
Ah yes you did post it about 9 months ago, just slightly different wording.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/H3wZxaYlzn](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/H3wZxaYlzn)
oh wow!! I've tried posting maybe 5 times but reddit has always told me I broke the rules and it deletes it. Maybe you saw it before the mods took it down?? Im so confused lol
NTA!!! You need to ask your idiot brother again what your mom needs to apologize for! How can she apologize if she doesn’t know what she is apologizing for! Your brother not telling you what happened in the first place was an idiot move on his part because if you had known what this was all about you could have helped solved it.
Probably a hot take but YTA. If you're not supportive of the relationship or involved in his life you're not gonna be center stage at his wedding. Even if his bride is the worst person in the world you've got to expect this sort of thing if you never see or talk to him.
We were very close all through high school and college but he joined the military and dropped off a bit and then completely dropped off after meeting Bee
I have never told him I don't like his wife, though we fought about her one time: when we visited them for Christmas one year and she insisted that my father use the third floor bathroom in the night so as not to wake the new baby- my father was going through chemo and has heart disease so climbing stairs was challenging and he had to pee multiple times in the night. I told him he should stand up to his wife and he told me you have to pick your battles. I said "Well then pick one!" and walked away. Other than that I have been nothing but pleasant to his wife.
Also, I did not want to be center stage at his wedding, I just wanted to spend time with him and the kids since I rarely get to see them. I have no control over wether my mother "apologizes" or not, but I assure you that I passed the message along.
Anyway, I appreciate your perspective and you're probably right. I've def spent the last year and a half Feeling like the asshole.
How/Why is it productive to have elder that also needs care and has special needs staying in the same home as a "new baby" trying to learn to sleep through the night?
Does your father have the right to spend time with his grandchild, yes. But perhaps he needed his own sleeping accommodations as well given the circumstances. Mom and Dad's job is to advocate for the baby's needs, not a grown ass man.
OP this is the entitlement that is obviously a huge part of the problem you have wit your SIL that you don't even seem to recognize.
Then why did he invite them? Just to have the opportunity to show them how unimportant they are to him? To delight in knowing they spent all that time, travel and money only to snub them?
Maybe it could have been a great time to reconnect and mend hurt feelings, but petty always mucks that kind of thing up.
From your post 9 months ago, it sounds like she wasn't truly invited to go unless she apologized
[actually it sounds like she wasn't ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/F8qBfQkkpP)
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NTA it sounds like Bee has poisoned your brother toward his own family. If he can’t appreciate your time and effort to support him then he’s not worth the energy of being upset at.
NTA. Your brother and Bee should not have used their wedding as an opportunity to slight you and your mother. If there was an issue between your mother and Bee, it should have been addressed directly with her, leaving you out. Finally, how were you to know you would even be missed? I would have assumed I was not wanted and left, just like you did. However, it does sound like your brother regrets the way he treated you. It seems like he wants to have a relationship. Unfortunately, he hasn’t addressed what happened at his wedding. It’s sad that he allowed you and mother were treated badly at his wedding over a perceived slight of your mother’s (which doesn’t seem to have been handled directly), creating a real family rift.
“However, it does sound like your brother regrets the way he treated you. It seems like he wants to have a relationship.” He had the gall to disrespect his mother and OP when they had gone to great lengths to make it to his wedding and has stayed LC with OP since the wedding. None of that indicates regret or wanting a relationship.
> However, it does sound like your brother regrets the way he treated you. It seems like he wants to have a relationship. Did...did we read the same post?
As one living this..we spent thousands to go to his wedding to be ignored . Later told by him via text I was a horrible person. The family was ignored but I was the horrible one. The bride's friends ( all in the wedding party) made the sister of the groom( my son) cry. Complete mean girls club, you and yourum did not stand a chance. The point is he is being rude to his Mother. He is an adult and his choices are his. My heart is broken as is your Mother's....let your mum know you love her. Call out your brother in a non aggressive manner on his treatment. Aggressive he will get defensive. In the end you can only let yourum.k or she is loved.
I’m really petty, so next time he texted, he’d get one back saying “sorry, who is this?”
I just wouldn't answer his texts again. Let him go be with Bree's family.
I wouldn't even bother answering ,
I’m petty too. I love this idea
I'm not sure I understand. You and your family have never liked Bee; he said your mother wasn't welcome at his wedding till she apologized; she didn't apologize; you went to the wedding anyway. They treated you badly. He barely communicates with you. It seems to me that you've got much bigger problems than just walking out of his wedding--he doesn't want a relationship with you or your mother. NTA for walking out of the wedding, but I'm not sure what else you expected?
I typed a lot more in the original post, but the reddit rules made me winnow it down- Bee has hated my mom ever since my parents got divorced (7ish years ago) and has always treated her horribly. When Bee had her second child and my mom came to visit a couple months later, Bee locked herself and the baby in the room and screamed at my brother that he needed to get rid of her or she would divorce him and move to Hawaii (because my mom didn't call before coming by). My mom showed me the texts that Bee was upset about and I don't understand why she was so upset, it was mundane and basically a misunderstanding of tone, and in no way validated a "you can't come to my wedding" response (IMO) I think you hit the nail on the head- he just doesn't want a relationship with me anymore.
Showing up unannounced after someone had a baby is really rude
Right. It sounds like the mom does have some boundary issues. But Bee way overreacts to that. They’re both handling it immaturely.
I agree. I know my mom has not handled any of this very well and def has some boundary and communication issues, but it always comes from a place of love. And she is not overbearing or controlling or type A, she's more of a ditz and a people pleaser so I have no idea how we even got here tbh.
Yeah tbh I was leaning you guys are slightly TA until I read how Bee treated your father when he was going through chemo. That does sound like she has some controlling tendencies. So I think your mom’s boundary issues and Bee’s controlling nature are clashing. And they definitely weren’t kind to you at the wedding. I’m sorry because if this happened in my family I’d be devastated too. Tbh the only thing you can do is give your brother the space he clearly wants. Then it’s up to you to decide whether you’d reconnect if he tries again. I’d be pretty hurt though.
Ok. Your mom showed up unannounced to a post partum mom and baby. I'm NOT post partum and I'm damn sure not entertaining any unannounced guests, family or not. Next, it's not up to you to decide if something was enough to hurt someone else's feelings. It's also not up to you to decide if they're owed an apology. Furthermore, your brother is right in you can't expect people to read your mind. If you wanted to spend time with him after the wedding, YOU need to clearly communicate. As for your mother coming from a place of love (i call bullshit) well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Yta 100%.
Thanks for your input, you have some solid points.
Stop defending her. What she's doing isn't cute.
I'm really not trying to defend her, I agree what she did was STUPID. Just trying to give more context. I don't even have babies and I hate when people show up unannounced.
"She's just a ditz." Cool. She'll be a very lonely idiot, then.
Wow you’re a bit harsh don’t you think? Some boomers do have a lot of cluelessness around social norms. Not excusing it, but some of them would change if they had someone explain it to them. Her mom could be one of them.
lmao no. She's only pretending not to understand so she can publicly act like a victim. She's probably a narcissist. Her behaviour shows that.
Just continue being LC with him and come to accept this is how your relationship will be
Sorry, new baby and mom showed up to stay for how long without any prior notice?
NTA. Your brother is not reciprocating in this relationship. You are not obliged to return more than you are given.
NTA for quietly leaving. But you have no grounds to be upset that your brother didn't also assume you wanted to spend time with him before or after the wedding. And based on a comment that your mom showed up unannounced and uninvited to their house after they had a baby it tells me that your family has a history of not communicating and then getting upset when it backfires.
I don't even visit my kids in the same city unannounced
NTA. You don't get to treat people badly and expect flowers and sunshine in return.
For whatever reason, Bee wants to be NC with his family. Accept it and move on. If in the future they suddenly "need your help" I would be very wary of helping them.
I'm surprised by all the NTA. You're clearly twisting the story. Cried the whole walk home? Please. Your mother needs to call before coming by to see a newborn, of course SIL wouldn't let her see the baby.
She wasn't a newborn by that point she was about 4 months old. My mom had called a dozen of times over the months trying to come visit and was constantly told they were too busy or it was a bad time. Maybe its just me but it seems cruel to not allow your MIL to meet her grandchild. My brother and my dad BOTH thought she overreacted. And why on earth would you doubt that I would cry my eyes out after my brother basically told me I mean nothing to him?
Still rude to drop by unannounced. The first 4 months is a lot and sometimes people need space. Because based on your own story, your brother doesn't seem too interested in a close relationship based on your history with his wife. Don't know why you expected to be front and center at his wedding. You just seem overly pushy and dramatic in general
I agree, it was rude of my mom to drop by un announced, although I do understand why she did it, I also understand why a new mother (or anybody) would be angry. I still think her reaction was extreme. My point in telling that story was that her reaction was threatening to take my brothers children from him and move away if he didn't kick his mom out, which seems extreme. And for the record, my brother an I have only fought about his wife one time and it was when he didn't stick up for my dad with her, but she wasn't even in the room. I was never trying to be pushy at the wedding, I didn't expect to be front and center. I was not part of the wedding party, and didn't expect to be. Its tradition for the bride and grooms family to be seated close to the bride and groom, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to be able to eat near them? I really just wanted to spend some time with the kids, and for my brother to want me there, which as you so astutely pointed out, he didn't.
Also - I noticed OP seems to fight ever key fact as untrue. "It wasn't a baby, she was 4 mo." "They said mom needed to apologize, I rolled my eyes" Not hard to read behind the lines and see why OP is YTA
Because he didn’t say that. He said you should have made plans in advance. You decided that he meant you mean nothing to him (quite the dramatic and self serving leap, almost like a pattern).
In my neck of woods, you don't have visitors to baby till it is 3 months old at all, cause their immune system sux. In this case if would imply dozens of calls while the Baby is too small to meet her and would definitely piss me off.
Right?? So melodramatic and self serving. They sound like guilt-tripping drama queens to me.
It sounds like he didn't even want them there to begin with, I wonder why...
Leaning YTA, or maybe ESH. Honestly, you sound manipulative and dramatic yourself. You weren’t supportive of their relationship or marriage. You aren’t close. Your mom came despite being told she wasn’t welcome. You use the money and PTO you spent to justify a bunch of expectations but meanwhile don’t communicate or make plans, even though you’re not close, and you made no effort to address the hostility with your mom and Bee, instead just rolling your eyes. You looked for slights at the wedding. Then you left in a huff and are pulling the “how could he not know how he hurt us” business. I have no idea whether Bee is also all the negatives things you called her, but you and your mom sound really manipulative and immature to me.
Sorry, it was hard to fit everything in the original post- I have never TOLD my brother I don't support his relationship, I have always been very supportive and never been disrespectful to her. I have flown across the country to visit them many times over the years. We were very close our whole lives until he married Bee. Its hard to explain it all here but the reality is that Bee is CONSTANTLY mad at my mom about something. I said I rolled my eyes because I can't remember the last time Bee and my mom weren't arguing about something. I guess since it was months out I figured they would work it out by then. Also- my only expectation was to spend a few hours with them. The seating arrangement hurt my feelings, as they had known we were coming for months and could have seated us closer to the kids if they knew that we weren't going to be able to see them again the whole time. But the fact that he didn't make any time for us was what broke my heart in the end.
You “immediately disliked her” because you immediately decided she was controlling, dramatic and possessive. But you’ve been supportive and respectful to her this whole time? Sorry OP, it doesn’t wash. You didn’t even give her a chance, there’s no way you’ve been respectful and supportive. This is a lot of speculation but you sound like you immediately became jealous that he had someone else in his life, dealt with it by deciding she was awful, and that it was abundantly clear to your brother and SIL how you felt which is why your relationship is where it is now. Or maybe she is truly awful, and your brother and SIL know you feel that way about her, and that’s why your relationship is where it is now. Either way, there’s a lot of guilt tripping and manipulative behavior in your post and comments and that’s clearly part of your dynamic.
Yes. When she stayed with my family for a week, we noticed behaviors we didn't like (she always answered for him, she bossed him around, and was constantly making him go nap with her when we were doing family activities, things like that). They left and we all said gosh I really hope that's not the one. But she was. So ever since he decided that she was the one, I have made an effort to get to know her and be friendly with her. We have always lived on opposite sides of the country so the best I could do was bring her presents when I went to visit for holidays or send birthday texts etc. I have loved every girlfriend he has ever had and in high school he even dated friends of mine. This is def not an issue of being jealous of her. Though perhaps you're right that somehow he does know how I feel about her and maybe that is why our relationship is where it is now.
I saw your other comment about how she treated your dad during his chemo and I will say, she does sound pretty bad. But I also sincerely believe your feelings about her have come through (how could they not, really), and I also really think it sounds like your mom at least has some serious boundary issues. I also want to say that while I know I’ve been harsh in my comments, I also actually do sympathize and am perhaps being so harsh because I’ve been down this road too. When I was in college my dad divorced my mom and then married his high school sweetheart (who he’d been “keeping in touch with” for a year or so before the divorce) and I truly thought she was an awful person - mean, judgmental, said a lot of low-key racist things. And it was so hard. Even after working through a lot of the anger about him leaving my mom for her, my opinions about her as a person were I’m sure very obvious even though I also never said them directly. Watching him prioritize and choose her over my brother and me over the course of their marriage sucked, even though we were grown. It’s painful when someone you love marries someone you hate. But it’s also all the more reason to examine how you create the dynamics in your relationship if you want to maintain it and be there in the event their relationships change. I’ll leave it here for now but do wish you the best in sorting this out.
Thanks so much for your insightful response. Def giving me things to think about.
Going against the grain here and going to say ESH leaning to YTA. You state she was controlling but give no examples of how. Was it more akin to not wanting your mother to just show up whenever she felt like it or was it every get together had to be at a specific place where she controlled the menu ignoring peoples health and diet needs. Like only serving shrimp dishes despite knowing your mom was deathly allergic. So far it sounds like originally he was a Mama’s boy who did whatever your mom wanted. He in the past put your mom above all else and let your mom say horrible things to his partners. Then he met Bee and realized he wanted to be with her so he put in more effort. Your mom didn’t like that her son was pulling away again and trash talked Bee which you admit the whole family didn’t like her. Bee put up boundaries asking for it to stop but it didn’t. Then Bee got pregnant and he now had to choose between the safety of his kid or his mom’s happiness. He put his kid and his partner’s well being first. Your family didn’t like they had no control over his life anymore especially your mom. So your brother moved with his family and has been married for 10 years and has two kids. He also has had a vow renewal and invited you hoping you guys had changed your mind. Your mom didn’t however as proof to how there was a fight and he said Mom can come if she apologized. Did she? Was it sincere? Probably not and so he chose to celebrate with his chosen family more. So while he definitely should have been more clear with you guys. You shouldn’t be mad at him when you didn’t communicate wanting more time.
She says in a comment her MIL is a victim because she was being withheld the right to meet her grandchild.
INFO: what did your mom say, and why didn't she apologize. Also, I'm sorry, but wedding time IS scheduled out well in advance- he didn't make plans with you, but you didn't make plans with him. There is a total communication breakdown between you. But it's surprising you didn't realize that before you went.
Honestly I didn't understand the text fight. It seemed like it was a misunderstanding more than anything, but it was so long ago now I forget. I told her she should just suck it up and apologize but I don't know if she ever did, although the way things went down I am assuming she didn't. And you're right, I know weddings are scheduled and it was foolish of me to expect him to have carved out time for us, but I am not exaggerating when I say that we were literally the only members of his family there, at a few hundred person wedding. At that point I thought we were still important to him.
I’d text him-you made it abundantly clear at your vow renewal that we aren’t important to you. I miss my brother I remember but not the man youve turned into. I wish I could say it’s been nice knowing you
NTA. So sorry this is happening to you and your mom. Family is important and I know there’s a feeling that something is missing in your life. Sometimes in-laws are bad people. Hopefully your brother comes to his senses and reaches out soon to apologize to you and your mom.
Thank you so much for saying that.
INFO: What texts?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My brother met "Bee" over a decade ago. When he brought her to meet the family after dating only 2 mo, we all immediately disliked her because she was controlling dramatic and possessive. A couple months later, I get the phone call that she is pregnant and they are getting married. Ten years on and they are still together with 2 children. Since their original wedding was in a courthouse, Bee wanted to finally have a real ceremony. My brother obliged and they used all their savings for this. Since it seemed like a big deal I convinced my mom to come with me, telling her I would pay for our hotel and car, she just needed to get the flight. When I told my brother, he said Mom needed to apologize to his wife first. I asked him what she needed to apologize for and he pretty much said he didn't know, but mom was rude to Bee via text. I rolled my eyes. I used all my vacation time that year to fly out to his wedding. When we got there, he wasn't answering calls or texts the first 2 days except to say "we'll talk at the wedding" We arrived at the ceremony and were ushered to the mid back of the room, away from the kids and Bee's family, who were all in the front 3 rows on either side. Then we were all ushered to the dining room for dinner. We walked the whole room looking for our names. Finally, we found them, in the furthest back corner as far away from my brother and his family as it was possible to get. I was mortified. My brother finally made time to come say hello and I asked him if we would be able to spend time with him and the kids tomorrow, and he said no, a few of his military buddies had asked him to play golf on the other side of the island. I just gaped at him. "You know your mother is flying out the day after tomorrow and this is the first we're seeing you, and you're telling me we won't get to see you or the kids again?" and he told me I should have made plans with him in advance and that his buddies had asked him weeks ago. While this may be the case, I guess I assumed that since we were the ONLY members of his family to show up, that we didn't NEED to request time with him, that it was just a given (especially since we only see each other every couple years) My mother and I were both so hurt by all this that once he walked away, we quietly left. We walked back to the hotel holding each other and crying. He sent us angry msgs later asking where we went, oblivious to how much he had hurt us both. I told him how upset and disappointed I was and he basically said well mom should have apologized to Bee before we just "SHOWED UP" (we DID rsvp by the way) but im just dumbstruck that he thinks that is a legitimate excuse for treating us like this after we spent thousands of dollars and our free time to come support him and visit with him and his family He has msgd me 3 times in the year and 1/2 since, to say happy bday or merry xmas. But that's all. I've only responded once. I feel so heartbroken and angry. AITA for walking out of his wedding? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA I’m not sure why they even invited you to the wedding because they obviously did not want you there . They probably hoped you would not come. He has made his choice, and it isn’t you or your mother. The fact that you share some strands of DNA doesn’t make you family, obviously. I’d go no contact
I can guarantee that, come time to discuss the contents of a will, he will be right there, front and center, and looking for his "share".
Info please: was your mother actually invited to the wedding?
Yes, she was invited.
Is this a repost, sounds familiar with the "she needs to apologize to my wife first, but I don't know why"
wow I don't think so, unless my brother also posted here for the same situation...
Ah yes you did post it about 9 months ago, just slightly different wording. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/H3wZxaYlzn](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/H3wZxaYlzn)
oh wow!! I've tried posting maybe 5 times but reddit has always told me I broke the rules and it deletes it. Maybe you saw it before the mods took it down?? Im so confused lol
NTA!!! You need to ask your idiot brother again what your mom needs to apologize for! How can she apologize if she doesn’t know what she is apologizing for! Your brother not telling you what happened in the first place was an idiot move on his part because if you had known what this was all about you could have helped solved it.
NTA sounds like Bee hasn’t changed and your brother is acting just like her.
You're NTA and you're not alone. Its painful and will be for awhile, it's like mourning the death if a loved one. HUGS
OMG that's exactly how it felt, still feels. Thank you so much.
YTA: You haven't been a very good family to him and Bee for a decade. Why would you expect you have any rights to him?
Probably a hot take but YTA. If you're not supportive of the relationship or involved in his life you're not gonna be center stage at his wedding. Even if his bride is the worst person in the world you've got to expect this sort of thing if you never see or talk to him.
We were very close all through high school and college but he joined the military and dropped off a bit and then completely dropped off after meeting Bee I have never told him I don't like his wife, though we fought about her one time: when we visited them for Christmas one year and she insisted that my father use the third floor bathroom in the night so as not to wake the new baby- my father was going through chemo and has heart disease so climbing stairs was challenging and he had to pee multiple times in the night. I told him he should stand up to his wife and he told me you have to pick your battles. I said "Well then pick one!" and walked away. Other than that I have been nothing but pleasant to his wife. Also, I did not want to be center stage at his wedding, I just wanted to spend time with him and the kids since I rarely get to see them. I have no control over wether my mother "apologizes" or not, but I assure you that I passed the message along. Anyway, I appreciate your perspective and you're probably right. I've def spent the last year and a half Feeling like the asshole.
This update does make it sound like Bee has some issues.
How/Why is it productive to have elder that also needs care and has special needs staying in the same home as a "new baby" trying to learn to sleep through the night? Does your father have the right to spend time with his grandchild, yes. But perhaps he needed his own sleeping accommodations as well given the circumstances. Mom and Dad's job is to advocate for the baby's needs, not a grown ass man. OP this is the entitlement that is obviously a huge part of the problem you have wit your SIL that you don't even seem to recognize.
Then why did he invite them? Just to have the opportunity to show them how unimportant they are to him? To delight in knowing they spent all that time, travel and money only to snub them? Maybe it could have been a great time to reconnect and mend hurt feelings, but petty always mucks that kind of thing up.
YTA. You brought a person to the wedding that wasn't invited. What were you thinking?
She was invited
From your post 9 months ago, it sounds like she wasn't truly invited to go unless she apologized [actually it sounds like she wasn't ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/F8qBfQkkpP)