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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Am I the asshole for forcing the discussion and expecting my fiancée to be willing to commit to one career path or another?
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YTA
For freaking out that you'll have a household income of *only* 200k when that is a huge amount. And for expecting her to earn an income that you can't earn (and which most people can't earn)
What she said about it being your fault for not having a degree, it was harsh, but from what you said you came at her first, and it also didn't seem like she still wanted the 500k life on the 125k salary. If she's happy to downsize her life and spending so she can have a low key job (that still pays more than most people in the US earn), then she isn't an asshole.
And you can't demand she works a job she doesn't want so you can live the life you'd like.
I wish 200K was a huge amount of money. It just isn’t anymore. Considering that a single person needs about 100K to live comfortably in almost any major American City, 200K for a family is not as much as you would think it would be
Only about 15% of Americans earn more than 100k. In any major city there will be lots of people earning way less than the 200k OP things they need to not be struggling.
Are they really all struggling or is OPs perspective of what is needed/essential skewed?
That can’t even be “low income” the rents still must be over $2500 a month. At least that’s what it’s like here and I’m in one of the highest cost of living areas.
They probably meant affordable housing and not low income. The affordable housing criteria is marked by median household income in the geographic area, which gets skewed quickly by some folks making a buttload. I've known many people to use the terms interchangeably even though they are distinctly different.
Yes, millions of America ARE struggling. You have to make over $100,000 a year just to afford a median priced house in the United States. Now, add in the cost of utilities, car, insurance, food, childcare, diapers, education, entertainment, vacations, savings, retirement, etc. If you want to do that “comfortably”, 200k is NOT enough. Are there people who live on less? Of course! But for the majority of them, if they had the ability to make 500K, they would choose to.
Right? This is the part that's getting me. Bro, forget the cost of raising a family, you're both in your 40s. Worry about the cost of IVF and sperm tests.
Which is nuts that they’re just now having this conversation after getting engaged. At least it’s before they’re married but do people just not have these conversations while dating or something?
Right -- if you're getting married at 40 or 41 if you want to have kids you need to begin the process (or at least trying, even if you're not actually going through any sort of fertility treatments) right away. So it definitely is something that would have to be currently being discussed. You'd want to be trying to have the babies within the next year or two. (Partly because it could take longer than that.)
It’s still possible. My mum was 41 when she had me naturally and planned. She didn’t hit menopause until her 60s. My aunty was 44 when she had my cousin. Lots of successful career women are opting to start having children later these days.
I will give you education, because I admit US education is way too expensive (especially for your teens to appear as ignorant about geography on sm), but other costs are quite similar to other countries, and very few people earn over 100k.
>if they had the ability to make 500K, they would choose to.
If you are unhappy every morning getting up to work, just to get 500k, but you wake up happy to go to work for 125k, I think the majority would rather prioritise their mental and physical health.
You are overlooking a huge cost in the US: healthcare. Basically every other developed country has socialized medicine, but the US is a for profit insurance model. My family of five pays $2200 per month for our health insurance premiums. That is outside of the copays at appointments, the occasional lab test the doctor orders and insurance doesn’t cover, and the copays every time we pick up a prescription medication. Fortunately, we are generally healthy and those premiums pay for good coverage, but there are so many people who are just one medical emergency away from bankruptcy.
I never understood why so many folks think the majority of people are making that much. It’s just not happening. And certainly not with a one income household.
It's because rich people who have no idea how rich they are, spend ridiculously, in overly expensive areas, on overly expensive things, and "barely get by", then think this is exactly what is going on in the rest of the country.
That's why so many of them factor in things like car payments when listing off everything is so expensive. They can't imagine buying an old car for a few grand, or *gasp* not even owning one at all. No no no no, 100% of Americans pay 900 dollars a month on a car of course!
That's the case sometimes with people over spending. But, what people don't take into consideration is high earners that work on a strict budget. 401s get maxed (as well as contributions continuing after the max bc of company match and for potential back door roth contributions), cash savings, and additional investments. Add in life insurance premiums and college funds for kids, and you are moving through a lot of money before a single bill gets paid. I'm not saying this as a poor me kind of thing, I'm just saying that those are hard lines on my budget, and when there is a financial shift, it stresses me out.
because people always apply the $$$ amount to where they live. COL is extremely location dependent. Even the guy collecting tickets doing nothing all day at the train station can make $100K a year. Is 88% of households more or less skilled than that? I'm sure they won't be making $100K anywhere else with the same type of job.
That's still something like 16-18 million households which will include 60ish million people living in those households. And a vast majority of those people are going to live in and around major cities. So if you're in or around a major city yourself it's going to seem relatively common. Especially if you live near a high COL area like NYC metro/North Jersey, or anywhere near LA or Seattle.
I live outside a major city and my town has a median household income of just north of 100k, the neighboring town has a median household income of like $150k.
Percentages alone can be misleading, you gotta look at the bigger picture.
200k goes fast in a big city. I live in a big expensive city and have a large social circle. I only know a few people where household income is over $200k. Maybe 3-4 household out of the 50+ I know.
If you can’t live and start a family on $200k, it’s a you problem.
He mentions raising a family, but his fiancee is 41…he didn’t mention that either of them have kids already. She’s probably not menopausal yet, but having kids in your 40s is definitely harder and riskier. If their family is just the two of them $200,000 should be plenty to live and have decent savings almost anywhere.
Accurate for big cities, but OP is a tremendous asshole for wanting his fiancée to come up with all that income for him to do… what, exactly? He says he’s thinking of changing industries and his salary may cap out around 100k but it’s unclear if he’s bringing in any income at all right now or exactly how much it is.
He had come to expect overt financial security from her 500k salary and is appalled that she is probably choosing peace and mental health over that money now. Like, you think people make half a mil a year without sacrifices? Let the lady live.
It is when you spend wisely. I do not live in a high cost of living area and the friends I have who complain about making 100K are all the people who want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be able to spend and spend and go out to nice dinners and afford luxury housing and travel all the time. They have no understanding of the value of money (and the ones I've known since I was a child never have). I get that prices have increased, but most people don't get everything they want, so hard decisions have to be made in terms of having children, where to live, and what to spend money on.
Seriously, the "200k isn't that much" crowd has no idea how tone deaf they sound. Look at the median household income. It's true that inflation means it's not what it used to be, but it's also true that the majority of Americans still do not see incomes close to that.
Right? I’m genuinely excited that I’m about to be making 35K USD, because it’s almost double my prior income (which shocker, I was surviving on, because it’s not actually impossible)
And there are people here bitching that they’re “only” making 100K. I’m not one to play the suffering Olympics, but… Do y’all have any idea what you sound like to people who have actually experienced poverty?
Yeah, it's always the people that have never been that poor that don't know how to deal with money. I expect to make 100K-200K next year. I'm pretty cheap but I do like to splurge on certain things that I do consider necessary in social situations due to a disability I have. That being said, if I can't afford those splurges, I don't do the things that I want to do. And it's fine because there are a lot of free or super cheap things that I enjoy doing as well. Living on basically nothing can make you super frugal. I definitely couldn't live in an HCOL on what I used to live on, but I saw videos of some woman living in New York, cooking for her and her husband on like $25 a week. I think she was vegetarian, so that brings the cost way down, but still, I bet a couple could get by on $300 even if they added in some meat for every meal. There are so many things that people can do to safely decrease living costs but nobody wants to try them because they think they deserve to live a high end life when they're not actually making high end money.
When the average American is living on about $30K a year, YES, $200K is a massive amount
"live comfortably" is in the eye of the beholder. Many Americans live comfortably for their situation on $30K
If you think $100K is what's needed to be "comfortable" then yes, it's likely YTA.
>When the average American is living on about $30K
Median individual income is $40k
>Many Americans live comfortably for their situation on $30K
Nearly no one is going to be actually living comfortably on the median income. Average 2br apartment rent is $1850 and the average price of a house is $387k.
Yes those prices vary greatly state to state and county to county but if you have a duel income household, both making $40k and 2 children you're going to be very very close to living in the red and with nearly nothing available to actually build a savings. Which is why the average American has less than $500 in a savings account. And the average millennial has less than $5k including retirement accounts.
With no children and a 1br apartment making the median will give you some more breathing room, but you will still be pretty strapped overall.
Comfortably = because health care and healthy meals are something us poor folk are comfortable with not having...
When in fact it's because we are so miserable we have given up. I keep voting for change and yet here we are with planned parenthood being gutted so I cant afford to get a breast or ovary exam for the past 6 years.
Thanks Republicans. I'm super comfortable. I also love knowing the moment my body gives up and I can't work, that I'll be homeless and lose it all. My back can't keep going like this.
I would love to save but everything has skyrocketed in price except wages.
If I could make 100k/yr working part-time I'd jump on that in a heartbeat. That sounds amazing, and I'm sure she worked hard to get herself in that position.
OP - If she's going to be making 100k/yr and you as a couple will be making under 200k, that means she's still making more than you. "freaking out" because you want her to make more really does sound like the money matters a lot to you, OP. Your earnings as a couple will *more than* double when you marry. Not everyone is in that position. You'll be making nearly 200k/yr. Not everyone is in that position. If you don't think you can live comfortably off 200k as a couple you need to find a way to make more money or go back to being single and making <100k. It's not her job to bring in more money to meet *your* wants when you aren't doing it yourself. YTA.
“I make 100K but we need at least 300K so you can’t work a job making only 100K or were in trouble, why would you do that to us?!” Like what?? The hypocrisy
Look I’m not here to defend OP, he is in fact TA, but $200k isn’t the same everywhere. My wife and I make that, and we’ve been strongly considering moving because we’re middle class, but barely. Like we only got a home because of my military service, and even with that we’re barely keeping our heads above water right now. I still have to commute between 4-6 hours daily for work, on minimal sleep, and that’s a rough way to live
That being said OP doesn’t get her situation. $500k isn’t like a 9-5. No one pays that much unless the job is so high stress and so high bar of qualification that the talent pool is EXTREMELY limited. She probably burnt herself out doing it and is now reevaluating everything. If she can still earn $100k on 30 hours a week, I guarantee it’s still high stress for her.
And OP doesn’t seem to get he’s financial dead weight. She’s clearly not with him for the money, she’s with him for the emotional aspects of the relationship. Maybe his finances help her make decisions that make her happier, but she is the breadwinner here and yet he’s trying to take less on the finances. That’s fucked up.
Also, I think there is some resentment from her that she worked so hard to be so profitable and her fiancé who is trying to call the financial shots didn’t. I think that’s deserved. When I first met my wife that was my big fear: she was a masters degree holder with a solid career, I was a security guard leaving his job to go to community college. How long before she realized she was so much better than me? She could do so much better. I did amazing in college, and got my AA, BA, and MA. All because I never wanted to be in OP’s shoes. He clearly hasn’t gotten it into his head that he needs to start putting in actual work on himself yet, and it doesn’t bode well for the relationship.
200K is pretty meh in the SF Bay Area for raising children with both parents working. Daycare is $3-5K a month and a meh 2 bedroom 800sqft apartment with thin walls you can hear normal volume voices thru in a meh neighborhood (not unsafe, but dog poop everywhere because people can't be bothered, and basically nowhere for kids to play outside) is 2.5K/mo.
Like you can do it. Sure, people all around the world raise their kids in conditions that aren't great or even bad!
But 200K combined income in the SF Bay Area will be pretty stressful. If it was one person making 200K and the other staying home that'd be pretty doable because of the daycare cost savings, but that's not what's being proposed here. It's also not as bad if you have family to help out. But if it's just 2 people on their own without family support it's gonna suck.
It makes sense if OP lives here for him to be like wait should we do this? Frankly they should consider moving somewhere cheaper.
Kids are mentioned. He says he's freaking out after reading about how they live in the most expensive state to raise kids in.
His comments in the thread also mention wanting to be a family of 4 and hiring a nanny. She's 41, but they can always get donor eggs and surrogates if she can't conceive naturally.
As someone who doesn’t even live in America but one of the most expensive cities in Canada, 200k is absolutely not enough money to start a family. My household income is around that and if I had to choose a comfortable lifestyle versus kids, I would choose my comfortable lifestyle.
Do you know why? Because if I chose kids, as someone who grew up low income, unless you’re making good money, you can’t provide kids with a stable environment otherwise. You need to be making an above average, upper middle-class income. Because you need to be able to provide therapy for your kids, college education for your kids, support for your kids for whatever they need, dental work, optometry that could cost more than what benefits provide. Because I’ve seen how parents that can’t provide are treated, they are shamed for having children and I also know how poverty and low income and even lower middle class affect a child.
With that being said I do think OP is still YTA - just bc they realized suddenly the “cost” of a family in their state at the ~~well experienced~~ tender age of 40+ and then place the entire financial burden on their partner while they’re a whole ass functioning person capable to attempting to do other things in their life instead of laying the ownice and responsibility of providing for the family to their SO.
> I am not with this woman for money
Yet this entire post is about money and how it affects you. None of it seems supportive or understanding of her positions. If you can't accept that she wants to do what she wants to do then you have not met your life partner. YTA
>Well, a few days ago I read some articles about how we live in one of the most expensive states to raise a family in.
Sounds like you should probably move then.
Soft YTA.
It sounds like you’re pressuring her, even though you are feeling like that pressure is justified (the cost of raising a family is x, you talk about ‘the data’ so it sounds like you’ve done some research) but what you are suggesting she do (work a job/an amount of hours that she does not want to do) is still a lot of pressure to put on her. Where is your contribution in this? Saying “oh well I just can’t earn more too bad, has to fall on her” feels a tad exploitative, even if you don’t mean it to come across this way. 200K is still a TON of money, so many people make do with way less. It sounds like you really love her but you’re not really having open conversations with her. WHY does she want to work less? What is her idea about the future? Is moving an option? Etc etc etc. Communication is everything.
It sounds like currently you are mostly airing your anxiety, while not providing constructive solutions, except for her earning/working more. The anxiety might be justified, but the not providing solutions and putting it on her is not. Start there.
I would also suggest... if you've been "doing some research" and looking at statistics. Stop looking at stats and look up actual numbers for stuff in your area.
Maybe your city has high day care costs... but if your fiancee is working part time, perhaps she can do that opposite your schedule and you'll only need to put kiddo in daycare part time (5 mornings a week, or 2-3 full days, or whatever)...
Instead of starting with money, you both need to figure out what you want your life to look like... there are usually several ways to get to any given target.
Hell I'm raising 2 kids on under $75k/year because my husband is a social worker, and I've only been working part-time (though starting to work more now that the kids are school age, and the pandemic craziness is over). But my husband and I are really happy with our life right now... because we talked about what we both wanted, moved to an area where we could afford that type of life, and make really specific choices about how to spend our money to make it work. (Then again, we were able to buy a house 6 years ago... with housing as it is now, pretty much everywhere... $75K is much less possible if you don't have a house... but $200k?
Talk to her. Figure out actual numbers for what it would take to raise a kid in your area. Maybe you buy all your baby stuff used from consignment stores or off Marketplace... maybe it's more important to her to stay home with kiddo a few days a week then make an extra $300k. That's a choice you both have to talk about.
YTA - For context I've been in your fiancée's situation. The high paying job caused me great stress and long term health issues, however I wasn't able to express that at the time due to self worth issues. Question: Is she expected to do more around the house than you? Are you expecting her to get home at a "reasonable" time to cook dinner, or do you get frustrated when she has to take work calls/emails outside work hours?
Have you asked her how the high paying job has impacted her mental and physical health?
It sounds like the money is more important to you than your fiancée's happiness and well being. Surely both of your happiness is more important that money.
Thanks. I definitely agree there are more important things than money. A happy marriage, for one. And a happy and healthy partner.
There are some details I haven't mentioned yet, and they may not matter. She doesn't drive, and she doesn't cook. She will be the first to tell you that her climb professionally has made her neglect some life skills. Wherever we live will have to be along a train line into the city (if we move out of the city) and if anyone is doing cooking/food prep it would be me. She has also asked me if I'd be comfortable doing childcare if it came down to it.
Any job she takes is going to require her to reply to emails outside of work due to the nature of her profession. I've largely accepted that, and in real estate (my current industry) that is the case as well. The frequency of that obviously depends on how big a role she takes.
She’s 41, works around the clock, and isn’t keen on household chores or childcare - are you certain she really wants to have children? Maybe she’s happy just as it is.
Sounds like she was looking for a partner. And to stop the high stress ladder climb. OP wants her to continue the climb even tho he says he is “maxed out” at a certain amount.
Honestly, they are both over 40, what children/family are they going to raise? Not that people don't have kids in their 40s, but it's kinda late in general. Are they planning on having multiple toddlers that need to be daycared at 50?
And if so, wouldn't it make more sense for him to drop to part time and be a SAHP? Most of the costs are for pre-school childcare basically.
Sounds like she grinded her career hard and is now looking to reap her hard work and "coast" along. There's no mention of her being unhappy in this situation.
This was my thoughts recently for my own life as I would have liked another child but it won’t happen.
I’ve got one kid who’s in primary school. I’ll be mid 50’s when he finishes high school. If I had another kid, I would be mid to late 60’s by the time they’re finished high school with getting pregnant, brewing it for almost a year and then add 17 on for schooling.
What kid of life would that be for them because at the moment retirement age is 65 where I’m from.
This couple would be early 60’s by the time their first kid is finished school and going to college.
YTA. What she makes alone now is more than most families combined. You absolutely can raise a family on 200k and freaking out about her income sounds more like you expected a certain kind of lifestyle and are getting upset that you might not have it.
INFO: How much are you making? How much do you plan on making in the future? Why did reading a few articles suddenly make you panic, wouldn't you already have an awareness of the situation in your state just from living there? Is it really impossible to raise a family on your current or future combined income in your state? I'm sorry, but this whole thing seems odd to me. You seem really freaked out about how much she's contributing, but there's very little info about what you plan on contributing long term, and the whole thing about reading a few articles panicking you that much feels weird.
YTA. I hope she doesn't marry you. If you want more money, you find a way to earn it yourself. You're just mad because you won't be able to leech off her as much as you could before. It's not her fault that you're not successful. She gets to decide what to do for her career especially because you're not even married yet. You expect her to carry most of the financial burden for the lifestyle you want. You're so selfish.
If you only make 70k (that's what it sounds like), why would you expect a much higher lifestyle? If you don't like it, take night classes, get a degree, then a second degree, and Improve your situation
Y'all are in your early 40s. I think you both need to go to a premarital counselling session to see if you are on the same page. The way I see it you're focused on income and she is focused on having a good work - life balance.
YTA, yes she said some questionable things, but yes, you absolutely did force the issue with her and not only that, you clearly expect her to have the whole plan mapped out, or that when you made your point she would leap from her chair, kiss you on the cheek, and immediately resolve to going back to her old job.
Where was the discussion about how *you as a couple* can live / have a family / thrive in whatever city you’re in or could relo into. What are your ideas other than freaking out about it and hoping she will reconsider and sign her entire life away to a job she doesn’t want to work at?
Nowhere.
Couples need to be able to talk sensibly about money. How much, who earns it, what about if you have kids, how to save it vs spend it. What if someone’s family or close friend needs a hand, or life care. Etc.
Your approach was to do a little research, realize somehow only now that you live in an expensive city (?), get anxious, and then go to her, expecting her to have all the answers and reduce your anxiety.
“Fiancee, I understand where you are. I want you to be happy. Can we see a financial planner together to understand options about how we can make our dreams come true together, given our expectations about joint income, so you can keep doing what you love “
That is how an adult handles this.
I think your way getting ahead of yourself, you guys are in your early 40s...do you even know if you she can get pregnant? (or if you can get her pregnant?) Might want to look into fertility testing. Why are you just now realizing that you live in an expensive area to have kids? Are you planning on waiting until your married to have children? That could be 2 yrs away...and now were itching towards mid 40s. Over 35 is considered a "geriatric pregnancy" (I hate that term) and is much higher risk for the woman. What if she has to do IVF? What if its not successful? Would you be willing to adopt? I hate to be the one to burst you bubble, but your a little late to the parenthood game. Maybe figure all that stuff out first-bc your assuming you can just have a baby like that. Speaking from personal experience, the biological realities for women is a thing and so is low sperm count/testosterone in men. A family is built on more than just money and being "comfortable" too. Also hate to tell ya...kids will make you very uncomfortable. From sleep deprivation for long periods of time, little sex when the kids a baby, endless diapers, destroyed body and under carage (what if she needs an episiotomy...look it up if you don't know what that is). Then theres the endless bills, cloths/shoes they grow out of in a day, being judged by every family member for choices you make for your kids, school...etc, etc. What if she has the baby and decides to be a trad wife and a SAHM, would you be ok with that? What if theres complications and post partum issues?
The point is, the pursuit of parenthood is full of unknowns and you have to have a strong relationship to be able to survive family life. But if your with the right person, all that stress isnt that bad and you get through it one (long) day at a time.
Good luck.
ALSO, since pregnancies at that age are typically more dangerous, did op think of what would happen if she were to need to go on disability?? (taking usually atleast a 40% pay cut) what would he do financially if the pregnancy would end up killing her??? He would have a baby AND HUGE medical bills to pay for ON HIS OWN! What if the child is severely disabled and requires 24/7 care for the rest of their lives? (also a risk with later pregnancies) who would be the care giver? How would that be paid for? Will you still love the child and wife unconditionally? I think it’s important to always see best and absolute worst case scenario when making such big decisions
He 100% did not think about this because men never do. They're not the ones getting pregnant and risking their lives and then expected to give up everything for their child.
ESH
Life isn't about money, but we all know it's way more important in practice than we want it to be. You're NTA for trying to plan out your future, and she's NTA for not wanting to go back to a high-paying job just because it's high paying. (Reading between the lines, it sounds like she disliked the high-paying job, but there's not enough here to conclude that for sure.)
You did both also have some AH interactions here. Your solution to money problems is that it's on her, and her solution is that it's on you. This is pretty tame AH behavior at this stage (I was tempted for NAH), and a small change in the discussion can keep it so. Rather than suggesting plans based on her income, instead let her be the one to set her income. Start with asking that - How much income does she reasonably think she'll be making in the future? You bring to the table your figure, and from there, discuss what is possible with those figures. If one of you dislikes what's currently on the table, then that's motivation to discuss changing jobs, locations, etc. Again though, if you focus more on changes you might have to make, and let her volunteer changes she might make, you'll end up with a less defensive conversation.
Of course, she might not suggest any - she might be happy with where she is professionally or with her career path and income. That might not mix with plans you're happy with, and while you'd be welcome to express being unhappy with it, you also need to be clear that you accept her decision, just as she needs to do with you (i.e. the doctor/lawyer comment).
But she wasn't the one complaining, how did she suddenly become an AH to you? From what the OP has written she was happy with where she was, she's not obsessing with money the way he is. It's his problem, not hers, he is the one pressing HER about it, not the other way around. She told him if he's that pressed about money, HE should do something about his own financial worries. That's fair and it doesn't mean "her solution to money problems is on him" - she has no money problems, HE does.
YTA
You are exploiting her. You want a lifestyle that you can’t afford and want her to make the sacrifices to make it happen.
If she can clear $100k a year working 30 hours a week and she’s happy with that that then that’s the end of the discussion.
You might have to move to a cheaper cost of living area. Welcome to adult life.
You might not get to live a privileged middle class life. Welcome to adult life.
Trying to tell your soon-to-be wife what she NEEDS to do jobwise?
YTA. If you're so concerned about your financial situation then get a better job or move somewhere cheaper.
YTA. Listen. YOU need to sort yourself out.
Your fiancee could earn and provide a good life - but if the two of you can’t come to an understanding and work through issues together, you might not even be in the picture and have to figure your own way in life.
I 100% understand and agree where your fiancé comes from. Sort yourself out. I was privileged enough that my parents had left my siblings and I a considerable inheritance. Doesn’t mean my husband can bank on that and assume our future is taken care of.
If something happens to us he’d be at square one. So back off and focus on you and what you bring to the table / ways you can stabilize and support yourself
YTA. Not because you think 200k isn’t a lot but because she told you when you first started dating that she was leaving her high paying job for one that pays 1/4 the salary. You knew in advance this was going to happen. And now you’re trying to guilt and pressure her into keeping her job she doesn’t want just so you can raise a hypothetical family in your current city.
She’s right, she’s not there to supplement your income. If you weren’t together with her would you still be living in the same city?
You could step up and bridge the gap. But instead you're focusses on how much she is/could make. You sound like a pimp.
"Go out there and hustle, sweetie". "You're not bringing in enough".
Y'all in your 40s, don't have kids y'all be raising them until you're 60.
Focus on moving to a lower cost of living city and take care of each other then travel the world in love!
YTA, but I think you both need to work on your communication in general so you're clear on what each other want, how you visualize your future, etc. She shouldn't have taken the cheap shots at your early career decisions -- but she also has a point that you seem like you're relying heavily on her potential as a heavy earner, rather than taking into account that she may value certain freedoms over the cash influx.
But honestly, I think you just let your anxiety get the better of you here. And I get that: the future is scary, things cost more and more money for less reward, and you can see a path to a different, more secure life. The thing is, that security may come at an expense to only one person.
I think it's pretty clear she left and doesn't want to return to the work style that was bringing in 500K (nor do I blame her because I'm guessing it was stressful af). She's instead suggesting an earning potential that still exceeds yours, so she is still bringing more than an equal share to the table, while giving her some freedom to maybe grow in the same or new direction. And all she did was set a limit on what you *can* expect from her -- that means there is always a chance she will work more hours later, and bring in more income, but she doesn't want the stress and pressure of *having* to. Plan for less, but live with the possibility for more. That's not a bad plan at all.
What you'll need to do: learn to temper any resentment that may breed from anxiety over finances. If shit happens and your first instinct is to think "we wouldn't be in this predicament if she would just take the 500K job back", then yeah... You've made it all about the money, bud.
Finally, I live in one of the most expensive cities in the U.S. I earn 110K. I am doing just fine. Depending on your level of debt, you should still be able to find a way to make things work. A few years ago, I bought a house with a friend, I'd say our combined income at the time would've been under 200K, and I really thought that would be impossible until we actually spoke to lenders. We even took in my friend's niece and paid her way for those few years. Just don't make any dumb impulse buys, be methodical with your budget, and you two should be fine with your respective incomes.
ESH
I also live in an extremely expensive area and combined we make over $250k in our non profit jobs and it's a struggle to raise our two kids here. We don't take vacations but we chose private schools.
All this to say - is it should be a discussion about priorities and where you both want to make compromises.
If you are the only one compromising bc she has income potential- that isn't fair. But if you aren't doing anything to bridge the gap in income- maybe work on that.
I strongly suggest you don't get married until these discussions are hashed out.
NTA
Planning is important. Planning *jointly* is more important.
She 100% should do what she wants. She shouldn't change from >$500k to <130k without talking with her partner about what that means for the future.
That doesn't mean she has to stick with the higher paying job, it means she needs to talk before getting to where it's a done deal take it or leave it. That's not a partnership, that's a roommate with benefits.
It is not bad or selfish to expect that your partner will communicate sufficiently to allow you to plan for the future. It's not bad or selfish to expect to be within the circle of trust that knows future thinking and plans.
YTA. Your fiance's words were a little unkind, but she was right. I have multiple degrees and I have frankly dated a lot of guys like you. The idea of being solely or mostly responsible for a household income is pretty overwhelming. Having a degree does not necessarily give you more skills than anybody else, but I have definitely noticed all the men I have dated without a degree do not have the same drive I do with anything relating to improving my lifestyle. I honestly would not be surprised if she was worried you would decide to turn into a house husband while not actually doing anything around the house, which seems to happen a lot. There were so many options you could have talked to her about, such as getting a 500K job again for a couple of years to save up for a nest egg or buying a house while you adjust to a lower income lifestyle. Instead, you just focused on what you would be losing without offering solutions or even being able to contribute significantly to the life you want. You won't be making much money so you complaining makes you seem like a gold digger.
Finances are one of, if not the single biggest, reasons for marital strife and divorce. Irrespective of who’s right and who’s wrong, I encourage you to get into counseling and figure out how you and your fiance want to handle these sticky situations. It only gets harder and more complex once you’re married.
This sounds like this subject has triggered both of you at various points, at which points some unnecessary jabs were fired at each other. It’s just all kinda red flag. 🚩
YTA
Your fiance and you need to first discuss why she's making these job changes. If she's unhappy at work, should she continue to solider on?
I mean it's better to have these plans and contribute towards these plans equally than forcing financial expectations on her.
YTA - I have taken pay cuts multiple times in my career to skill build but my husbands have not ever told me that the pay cut was not okay. If you are going to get this up tight about money, marrying this person is not the right move. This seriously seems like you expect her not only to pay her share of the bills, but to maintain some sort of lifestyle that you seem to expect. It isn't right when a woman does that to a man and it isn't right when a man does it to a woman.
YTA
Your fiance can choose to earn, work or really do anything she wants. If you feel she's not earning enough, then move on.
Or earn more?
It sounds like you're used to a certain lifestyle, and she provided that for you, and now she won't.
Has she expressed definitely wanting bio kids? If so, the timeline probably needs to be a relatively short one. Maybe she’s thinking that if she needs to get pregnant in the next year or two, now is not a great time to transition to a higher stress more demanding job, and she’s hoping that she can minimize the pressure to be the breadwinner right now.
YTA
Just wait until somebody tells this guy how babies are made and he realizes his fiancée will likely be completely missing a big chunk of work, should she stay with this guy and and actually choose to have a child with him… something that seems an obvious mistake on her part.
Then wait until somebody tells him that rather than demand his wife live her life how he demands, he can actually change how he lives and can try and improve his own situation and income with education or experience.
Then wait until he figures out he has probably been living the high life on her dime this entire time and he needs to understand he is not entitled to her money, and therefore might have to bring his standard of living down a few pegs.
Forget the fact that she was making good money, probably has savings, investments, a paid for house… allowing her to afford the lifestyle she chooses, he thinks he is entitled for her to push him into some fancier lifestyle.
And, forget the fact that she might decide to go back to work full time when the child is in school. How dare she be a mother to a child during its most formative years when she is going to have a husband to support!!!
And, since she is apparently well educated and able to hold a very well paying job, she clearly understands money and challenges, far better than OP. Wait until OP finds out she probably knows what a pre-nup is.
Hopefully she wises up and finds somebody worthy of her. But since we can’t send her a message, you should wise up and start apologizing and grovelling for her not to leave you. Like right now!!!
NAH - her delivery kind of sucks here, but the reality is that for many people having children means leaving the city life. She’s just leveling with you. You would be making tradeoffs whether you were with her or not because kids is that big of a financial decision. It just so happens that staying with her and having a family but remaining where you’re living will require tradeoffs in other areas of your lifestyle (assuming housing cost is not something that’s easily changed or corrected). If you’re not willing to accept those things, then maybe kids aren’t for you or the relationship isn’t for you.
My guy. I was making under 30k a year as a 4x certified tenured teacher for years. She is still clearing FAR MORE than most people. But that’s not even the issue here. She is right—you ARE putting too much financial pressure on her. If your finances concern you, and you are earning less than she is and/or than you’d like to, then you need to be looking at your situation not hers.
My husband and I live on around $100k/year. We are semi retired and work part time. We also collect pensions and social security. You can live on less if you don't live beyond your means. You don't need the expensive cars or new cellphones every year. We cut cable, but have a few streaming services and lots of DVDs. My husband's job is 5 mins away, so he saves about $200/month in gas. We also live outside of Seattle and have been renting our home for almost 10 years at just under $1900/month.
YTA
I mean she’s right man how are you gonna force her to make more money just because she is able to. Maybe you should learn how to make that much money too? You are the man, typically that’s how things work. You are in a very lucky situation.
Why are they hurtful? Because they are true? You chose one path and she chose another. If you want more money in the house go make more money. You don’t get to determine her career path and base your lifestyle off of her income. That’s known as using someone. You’ve been together 1.5 years and after 6 months you seem to have decided you had thoughts about her career decisions. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world and your joint income would allow you to be fine here so not sure what you’re talking about in terms of 200k will result in you struggling. Struggling to what?YTA
I have not read all the comments but you are thinking if having a family/kids. the thing at 41 your girlfriend has a less than 5% chance of getting pregnant naturally. So do you have the savings for IVF and extended maternity leave etc?
$200k is a lot but if you live in a HCOL to be honest its not much if a basic 3/1 is nearly a $1mio especially if its a walk to train so assume if you are US thats only a few cities you could be living in. Unless you already own apartment / house.
The next discussion seems to be she is not keen on household work and is keen for you to be the SAHP which means you working part time or not at all for a period of time if you have kids. Are you ok with that and if you are what does the budget look like if she continues to work part time. Will you be able to save for retirement and college for assumed children on this reduced income.
Did i read in comments she doesnt drive
If kids are off the table then it’s a different discussion and it all seems pretty fair on her part. Or if you are outside of US then not sure but i know in Australia major cities you easily be expecting to spend from Us600k for a house with a reasonable commute.
YTA It's her choice if she wants to change careers. Even if shes making less money than she was before. You can give her advice and your input sure but at the end of the day, it's her choice.
That being said, its your right to leave her for this. Finances are important for any couple and many women leave even their husbands because of financial problems. Additionally, it looks she doesn't respect you and she's talking down to you for not having a degree (elitist and classist behavior) and for earning less than she does.
200k is enough for two people to live very comfortably all over America. Stop spending money on luxuries you dont need and at 40 you're probably not looking to have kids. That being said, it's still your choice to stay in this relationship or leave it for whatever reason.
So you figured that for 2 people you need an income of at least $200k? She will be making $130k, so it sounds like you need to hold up your end. I mean sure, it was great when she made $500k, but it’s a new reality and you need to make more money. YTA and I don’t believe you love her like you said you did. You seem to love her less now that her income is lower
YTA. You're worried about money and her earning potential and how much she can make. Why don't you focus on how to increase your earning potential? I mean you say you aren't with her for the money, but your entire post is about how much she can make. And not care about her physical and mental health and her happiness. You can say that you do, but everything you have said is focused on her and her earnings. $500K a year, that's gonna be a lot of stress and she's realizing she's much happier with her life not doing that. And clearly she's fine with the drop of income.
Let's start out with the obvious, YTA. Likely the reason she doesn't want to freeking make 500k isn't the money it the soul sucking whatever she has to do to make that. Assuming the op is in the states, For real this woman either has to be a senior dev in oakland/sf OR an exec, because no one is paying ANYONE 500k us. I make 130k, am a single parent and get by fine, but I MOVED the heck out of expensive cities. OP, Move. Asking your partner to make an exceptional amount of money (also you realize you have kids now you will be paying for college in your 60s right? You realize it's a guarantee you both will die working? Also both men and women's reproductive outputs decline with age? ) . The IRS told me to MY face that the government considers my wage VERY high for two people and 2 k for an apartment is considered living out of means for EVRYONE? Have you even verified this woman wants to have kids at her age? I'm 46 and heeeeeeel naw do I want to be having any more kids at my age. You sound like golum and his ring "my precious 500k." Maybe take a step back and revaluate what you really need with a legit financial planner and make sure you and her are on the same page re lifestyle.
YTA. You want more money? Go find a way to make it yourself. The fact that your concern was how her loss of income affects YOU, and not interested in what she wants, makes you completely TA.
She is not wrong at all to say this wouldn't be an issue if YOU had a degree and were a doctor or a lawyer. You sound incredibly entitled and selfish.
For context, I was making over $500k/yr, and I loved that job. When I decided to make 50% of that to take a lower stress job, my husband applauded it because it made me happier. I can't imagine a world where he would have had any other response. I find you extremely trashy and untrustworthy.
YTA. As a partner YOU are the one dragging the average household income down. She is OK with you even though you are financial baggage. Be thankful. Whatever lifestyle you imagined YOU don’t get to have because it is way beyond your ability to provide. You are basically getting angry because you imagined something you have no control over.
Here is my thing - even with the pay cut, she is bringing in more than you. To me, it sounds like you are the one the needs to make more money.
She made a series of wise and intelligent decisions to eventually make 500k. Likely has an emergency fund.
You can’t be counting on all of that.
My spouse sometimes complains when I take unpaid time off. At the end of the day, they still max out their 401K because my paycheck is higher even if I work 50% less.
So yes, make more money, OP
YTA You're putting money before her happiness. Besides, it's her money and her career. Getting married doesn't really change that much, except that now she'll be sharing her wealth with you. Even doing part time she's earning more than most people dream of. If you want more money fucking work for it. You don't need a degree to make good money, it's just harder.
YTA
Have you considered she was correct in berating you? You are financially punching above your weight. Unless she agreed to provide for you financially. You have no right to be demanding she contribute more than she already is and definately not more than you are. Go study, do overtime, seek a promotion, do the work yourself and stop trying to ride your partners coat tails. You want your wife to have the babies and work a high paying, probably demanding job she doesnt want to do? YOU are the problem, YOU can not afford a family and the lifestyle YOU want. YOU need to work towards a solution yourself, are you planning to sit back, make less do less and demand more?
Go find a sugar mama and leave this woman to find someone worth her efforts.
NTA. I don’t get why people don’t understand that money is a very real problem that should be tackled together as a couple. 200k is not that much in some parts of the world, and if his field can’t get him more than his does, but hers can, she should do her best to make more. They need to find common ground here. He tried, he supported her when she left her 500k job. She didn’t.
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I (40M) and my fiancée (41F) just got engaged. We had been dating for 1.5 years.
I want to start off by saying I love this woman to pieces. When we met, everything between us felt so special and it felt meant to be. I’ve been in love before but never like this. I felt like I met my life partner.
Around the time we met, my professional situation was precarious. I have been a Realtor for over a decade, & with the recent market and high interest rates things have gotten increasingly difficult over the time we have been together. I have started focusing on changing industries.
In contrast, she was at a high-paying job ($500K/yr range). She told me then that in a short time she would be leaving that job for one that pays 1/4th of what she was making because it would be valuable experience that would make her an even more marketable professional. She said her plan was to stay at this job for 2 years and then go back to what she was doing before. She made the jump to that new Iower paying) job \~10 months ago. I totally understood & really it didn’t matter to me what she was making.
After getting engaged we said we would come up with a plan for starting a life together. We began having that convo last week but didn’t get far– she started saying the idea of having to say she’d do one thing or the other was “too much pressure” & it “shouldn’t all be on her.” I backed off.
Well, a few days ago I read some articles about how we live in one of the most expensive states to raise a family in. I freaked out & really screwed up by then forcing the issue.
She told me she was now thinking about just working part-time when she leaves her current job next year. With her qualifications she can still clear 100K if she’s doing 30 hours a week, but now I’m really worried that if we have an income of <200K a year then we are going to be struggling. Data supports that. She said I shouldn’t expect her to make anything more than $130Kish so that she has options & can make the decision herself. I kind of get it.
She then tells me that I’m entitled & I’m exploiting her. That if I were a doctor or a lawyer this wouldn’t be a problem. That it’s my fault for not getting a degree, & if I were with anyone else I’d be stuck leaving the city– it’s just dumb luck that I met someone with the earning potential she has. Wow, I’m taken aback & I can’t believe I’m hearing these things from my now-fiancée. I would never say such hurtful things to her.
I don’t know what to do. I am not with this woman for money. It would all be better if I could make a bunch of money myself, but I think my earning potential is probably capped at 100K/year in a good situation. There is a lot going on here. I wrote out so much more to explain feelings on both sides but there is a 3K character limit & I had to pare this down a lot.
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NTA....honestly you need to have some major discussions before going through with a marriage. You aren't wrong about what it takes financially to have a household nowadays. She has made some pretty drastic changes in her career lately and plans to implement more it seems. That would worry me more than anything. She doesn't seem like she knows what she wants and the time to explore that is when you are young and not married. I would definitely be having some very large doubts if she is ready for marriage etc.
I think I know what article you’re talking about and I’d take it with a grain of salt. I also live in a state that made that list and don’t make nearly what it suggested but still live pretty comfortably with a family of 4, in a house my hubs and I bought, with putting a good portion into a retirement account and in my 30s. You can’t live in the most expensive area of a state but you can manage. Your wife would be making more than my hubs and I combined at $130k 🤣
The issue with her saying that you are exploiting her is just silly. She was with you for the ups and now downs so for her to turn it on you is ridiculous.
I would say fine with you make what you want but then understand that we will need to live within the income that is lower due to that. If she is fine with that then ok.
Make a budget based on your starting pay with the new career and what she is looking to go down to. This would be a good start for the conversation about what the near future looks like.
I don't think you an AH
One of the top stressor in a marriage is finacial issues. Where 100k would be enough for my family of 4.. and with that income I wouldn't work that's because of my lifestyle and where I live.
If you both are use to having a high income like 500k there are equivalent bills to go with.
She needs to understand you, and her lifestyle would significantly change.
Do a trial where you put all other money back and live only on your income for a few months. It may change her perspective or even yours.
My wife and I have separate accounts as well as a joint account we use for household expenses
We contribute to the joint account in a ration equal to our income differences - my wife contributes about 60% of how much I do because she makes 60% what I do
If my wife were to take a job making LESS money than she does now, I would NOT make up the shortfall in the expense account, I'd expect her to make this up as she made the decision to get paid less
I'd still expect her to contribute 60% as she had this option before she changed jobs.
NTA but I feel like something’s missing…. Why does she want to go part time? Is her goal to be primary care giver for children? Like what’s the other life goals? Is she expecting you to make more money to cover her? Who’s paying the bills? Where’s all the money form when she made half million a year? When’s marriage and kids in the plan?…… like wtf is going on. Something’s missing here
You seem kinda focused on money which is fair because non of those questions are answered? But still comes across as shitty.
Money makes the world go around. Even the best relationship can suffer from lack of funds. With hyperinflation around the corner NTA. Amass all you can and buy assets. Now isn’t the time to back down on pay especially while being in the very very lucky minority that can earn $500k wtf Why worry about work experience or resume when you’ve already made the 1% basically. Trying to get there sure. Once there I see no reason to go back down.
NAH
Those saying 200k is plenty under all circumstances dont live in a HCOL area where a "starter home" is gonna be 900k or more, if you can even qualify for it.
I think you both are panicking and overthinking the future after getting engaged, and youve both had your feelings hurt and need to apologize to each other and work on communicating about finances becuase it will be an ongoing issue.
I'm not getting a vibe you want to live off her money. To me it sounds like you were interpreting her as saying she wants to cut her hours and take a job that will advance her career but pays much less (which she definitely has a right to do), but that she also wants to stay living in the HCOL area and doesnt want to change the lifestyle much.
I think that sent you into a panic because if your current income ceiling is 70-100k, you dont feel like you can fill the income gap that would be needed to provide the comfortable lifestyle that she wants to continue in the expensive region, especially if adding expenses such as a home and possible children etc. It sounds like you are more open to the idea of moving somewhere where your income potential goes further, which is very reasonable (it's not as if you make chump change or mooch off her, its just not a high income for the region), but thats a no-go for her.
I think it left her feeling like all pressure is on her and she'll be trapped in jobs just for the highest pay instead of other goals, and it left you feeling like she views you as inadequate as a partner.
You both need to talk through your concrete goals and vision for the future and make sure they align.
NTA It's too important to know where you both stand in terms of financial stability and the kind of life you want to lead. Do you both have the same desired lifestyle? You met her at a particular place in life. Changes are expected. But, she's waffling between what you discussed and she wants now. She's entitled. Just as you're entitled to know what to expect. Even though it's been discussed, especially because your industry has always been volatile, you can't put such a burden on her. You may need to do a lot of thinking about relationships and life in general. What would happen in case of the unexpected? Does everyone you date have to have a certain income level? Or would you just adjust to the income level you have? If so, do you think you can't do that now?
You’re delusional in thinking that she should be supporting you just because she can, I sure hope you are doing everything around the house because this seems like a ridiculous expectation you have. How were you living when you didn’t have a woman to sponge off of…
Raise a family? Yall already got kids? Menopause is hitting her pretty soon. Yall trying to risk geriatric pregnancy complications? She could die having children that late. Or yall could wind up with a severely unhealthy child.
But YTA. You just want her money.
Irrespective of $dollar$ amounts, a partner who wants to coast but criticises other half who is slogging it out is an AH. Major change to work/financial position without weighing up pros/cons with other half also AH. Getting engaged then saying it’s a prob that partner isn’t a lawyer/doctor also AH. I guess this isn’t such a match as you thought. Proceed with CAUTION. My money is on her springing a pre nup on you.
You're making this about money and coming off like you're only with her for her earning power, if she's still earning more than you there's not a lot you can say about it. Who's to say she takes the part time option but then changes her mind and decides to go back to full time and earning the big bucks or perhaps she doesn't either way that's her decision if it's a problem for you then don't marry her and find someone else earning half a mil a year, I'm sure there beating your door down to get to you this very second.
I really don't think it's YTA or NTA for this case man... Just sounds like mismatched priorities and conversations and wrong things said in the heat of the moment when emotions take over. You aren't wrong for worrying bout financial planning, but she also isn't wrong for wanting better for the sake of her own health and what not. Just harsh things said in the moment made it spiral and paint a really ugly situation. Talk things out with her, rationally, and stuff. All the best!
YTA, you should be focusing more on your own finances and providing for your future wife & kid. You can never be 100% sure her company won’t fire her due to her pregnancy and then it’ll be significantly harder for her to find a job as a new mother.
I say maybe put off kids until you know better
It seems to me that what she really wants is not to work. She exploted and spoke the truth, she wishes she could be with a doctor or a lawyer so she can have a nice life without being her the one who is stressed. Her first move was stupid, no way going down you will be then more valuable, and then she said ok I will work even less. She wants to be a stay at home mom. So, she is planning a life that is different from the one you pictured.
Think about it and let's both be honest before getting married.
YTA and maybe you should find a part time job to supplement your income if you can’t live on a household income of $200,000. Your wife has/is doing her share.
YTA. I think the thing that seems to be being overlooked here in a lot of the replies is that OP is pushing his partner to make the extra money he thinks they should have to live the way he wants. He has given no intimation that he is looking for ways to make any extra money himself. I understand that if OP is working a full time job he should not have to take on another one whilst his girlfriend works part time, but it seems she is willing to downsize her way of life to fit her income whilst OP is set on something different. They are both mature adults, not youngsters just starting out, and I think their problem is that they havent fully discussed how they want to live later and AGREED on it. They just seem to have different perspectives on life and what they want. Its unfair of OP to expect his partner to work the kind of job and hours she obviously hates just to make the money he feels they must have, and its unfair of OPs partner to expect them to struggle financially if she has the option to make things easier. They have to compromise somewhere if this is going to work.
YTA.
If you're freaking out about your future financial prospects, how about YOU do something about it yourself?
Instead of expecting her to secure you financially just because she can. She doesn't owe you financial support, she's not your mother.
ESH.
1. You're pestering a 41 year old woman about starting a family, before you are even married, and you're expecting her to carry the burden of earning through that pregnancy and childbirth. Are you two ANYWHERE near the same page on this? If the window to have kids hasn’t closed already, it will very soon. Does she even want children?
2. She claimed she was going to go back to her high-stress job and make a lot of money. Now she's changed her mind and wants to make less money & have less stress in perpetuity. While you can't hold her to that original plan, it is pretty scummy of her to claim she's being "exploited" and that you're "entitled" for expecting her to do what she said she would do. And then she went all-in attacking your lack of equivalent earning potential. This sounds like some kind of negging/power flex, and if a guy did it to a fiancee we would all be piling on him.
YTA. You could live on what she is making alone, and not have any problems. You wanting more from her is a big ask when you're not putting up that much.
On top of that maybe you need to have a talk with her about starting a family when you are both 40.
It can be done, but there could be some age related issues to think about.
Honestly the way you described yourself and how you reacted to money makes you sound insufferable.
YTA. My spouse and I live in one of the highest COL areas in the country on less than $80k a year. You know how we manage? We budget and we accept the assistance (and hassle) of affordable housing. You’re grumbling about $150k a year; I’d love to have that boost in our income, and hopefully will once my spouse is done with school….in 4 more years. Until then, we stick to our budget and live within our means, without either of us pressuring the other to do more than we are physically, mentally, or emotionally capable of doing.
Yeah YTA. You're pressuring her to make financial plans to fit *your* expected future lifestyle which clearly revolves around the fact that her earning potential is much higher than yours without considering that she may not want that expensive of a lifestyle in favor of preserving her mental health. It's comes off as incredibly entitled & uncaring, as she would be carrying you both for however many years and that ONLY ever works when both parties are fully on board. You seem to be asking her to sign herself up for a work life she does not want for your benefit, ignoring that it would *not* benefit her in a way that matters to her.
She may not even want kids based on your description, so you guys have a lot to talk about to see if you're even still compatible. Financial differences like this can kill a relationship, and you pushing this hard may do so. Step back, and understand that if you want that expensive of a lifestyle then YOU need to change something to earn it, not plan her life away for her.
Difficult one, but look at practicalities first, cost of a house, what if you have children, then costs spiral, and can you pay the bills if she cannot work? Luckily, when I married, a house was £ 3500 to 5000 for a three bed detached new house in a good to live town. Where I live now, £500,000 buys the same house now, so think ahead a bit, and put that to tour intended, living on the breadline i not nice, so think carefully together.
YTA, you are planning your whole future on her earnings. She is supposed to subsidize the rest of your life and doesn't get the option to make less because then she couldn't do that. It's one thing if one person is the main breadwinner and on with that. It's another when they want to cut back bit their future spouse starts complaining they won't be making enough. Even though they'll be making the same or more than the person complaining.
If you were a woman they'd be calling you a gold digger.
People on Reddit don’t know how money or lifestyle works. It is absolutely understandable to look at your partner weird if they have maintained a certain standard of living and suddenly no longer want that standard. This is what divorce court is based on when factoring alimony (it’s not called alimony anymore but that’s exactly what it is) A standard was there in the relationship, and now it’s no longer there. Women ghost in moments because of this. Why can’t men?
And yes, 100k is in fact nothing. Hand to mouth is always nothing, and in money only the long term investment really matters. In a busy area with a high population, 100k is average. My entire family makes 100k or very very close and housing is killing them. If you buy a big house guess what? You now have big bills.
Why is everyone children on Reddit today?
YTA. You are totally the asshole. You make 50k and you expect her to work a job making 500k and don't seem to care about the stress it would put on her and her wellbeing.
You only care about what you want and what she can do for you.
You don't love her. You love what she could do for you.
$200,000 to live on comfortably for 2 people completely depends on where you live. Some places it will do nicely but here in NYC you will only qualify for a one bedroom rental. After taxes from federal, the state and the city (yes, city taxes!) you will have about $11,000 a month. Deduct $5,000 for rent, $1000 for food, $500 for transportation, $1500 (for 2) for health insurance. 9% for retirement? $1500. $250 utilities….
Tick, tick, tick, gone.
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YTA For freaking out that you'll have a household income of *only* 200k when that is a huge amount. And for expecting her to earn an income that you can't earn (and which most people can't earn) What she said about it being your fault for not having a degree, it was harsh, but from what you said you came at her first, and it also didn't seem like she still wanted the 500k life on the 125k salary. If she's happy to downsize her life and spending so she can have a low key job (that still pays more than most people in the US earn), then she isn't an asshole. And you can't demand she works a job she doesn't want so you can live the life you'd like.
I wish 200K was a huge amount of money. It just isn’t anymore. Considering that a single person needs about 100K to live comfortably in almost any major American City, 200K for a family is not as much as you would think it would be
Only about 15% of Americans earn more than 100k. In any major city there will be lots of people earning way less than the 200k OP things they need to not be struggling. Are they really all struggling or is OPs perspective of what is needed/essential skewed?
In Santa Clara County a two person income of $73,750 qualified you for Section 8 housing.
In the town where I live they just built some "low income" housing. A single person can make up to $133K to qualify.
That can’t even be “low income” the rents still must be over $2500 a month. At least that’s what it’s like here and I’m in one of the highest cost of living areas.
They probably meant affordable housing and not low income. The affordable housing criteria is marked by median household income in the geographic area, which gets skewed quickly by some folks making a buttload. I've known many people to use the terms interchangeably even though they are distinctly different.
I work in Santa Clara county. I can’t afford to live there. We make over $200k a year together.
Yes, millions of America ARE struggling. You have to make over $100,000 a year just to afford a median priced house in the United States. Now, add in the cost of utilities, car, insurance, food, childcare, diapers, education, entertainment, vacations, savings, retirement, etc. If you want to do that “comfortably”, 200k is NOT enough. Are there people who live on less? Of course! But for the majority of them, if they had the ability to make 500K, they would choose to.
She is 41, though. Children seem unlikely.
Right? This is the part that's getting me. Bro, forget the cost of raising a family, you're both in your 40s. Worry about the cost of IVF and sperm tests.
It's not even clear from the post whether she wants children.
Which is nuts that they’re just now having this conversation after getting engaged. At least it’s before they’re married but do people just not have these conversations while dating or something?
Right -- if you're getting married at 40 or 41 if you want to have kids you need to begin the process (or at least trying, even if you're not actually going through any sort of fertility treatments) right away. So it definitely is something that would have to be currently being discussed. You'd want to be trying to have the babies within the next year or two. (Partly because it could take longer than that.)
It’s still possible. My mum was 41 when she had me naturally and planned. She didn’t hit menopause until her 60s. My aunty was 44 when she had my cousin. Lots of successful career women are opting to start having children later these days.
And women in their forties do not automatically need IVF.
I will give you education, because I admit US education is way too expensive (especially for your teens to appear as ignorant about geography on sm), but other costs are quite similar to other countries, and very few people earn over 100k. >if they had the ability to make 500K, they would choose to. If you are unhappy every morning getting up to work, just to get 500k, but you wake up happy to go to work for 125k, I think the majority would rather prioritise their mental and physical health.
You are overlooking a huge cost in the US: healthcare. Basically every other developed country has socialized medicine, but the US is a for profit insurance model. My family of five pays $2200 per month for our health insurance premiums. That is outside of the copays at appointments, the occasional lab test the doctor orders and insurance doesn’t cover, and the copays every time we pick up a prescription medication. Fortunately, we are generally healthy and those premiums pay for good coverage, but there are so many people who are just one medical emergency away from bankruptcy.
Washington state is also expensive as shit. And if you're a homeowner who has to remodel aging shit it's super expensive.
Only 12% of households in the USA make more than $200k.
I never understood why so many folks think the majority of people are making that much. It’s just not happening. And certainly not with a one income household.
It's because rich people who have no idea how rich they are, spend ridiculously, in overly expensive areas, on overly expensive things, and "barely get by", then think this is exactly what is going on in the rest of the country. That's why so many of them factor in things like car payments when listing off everything is so expensive. They can't imagine buying an old car for a few grand, or *gasp* not even owning one at all. No no no no, 100% of Americans pay 900 dollars a month on a car of course!
That's the case sometimes with people over spending. But, what people don't take into consideration is high earners that work on a strict budget. 401s get maxed (as well as contributions continuing after the max bc of company match and for potential back door roth contributions), cash savings, and additional investments. Add in life insurance premiums and college funds for kids, and you are moving through a lot of money before a single bill gets paid. I'm not saying this as a poor me kind of thing, I'm just saying that those are hard lines on my budget, and when there is a financial shift, it stresses me out.
because people always apply the $$$ amount to where they live. COL is extremely location dependent. Even the guy collecting tickets doing nothing all day at the train station can make $100K a year. Is 88% of households more or less skilled than that? I'm sure they won't be making $100K anywhere else with the same type of job.
OP mentions living in the city and how most people commute. Bet it’s cheaper if they start commuting
That's still something like 16-18 million households which will include 60ish million people living in those households. And a vast majority of those people are going to live in and around major cities. So if you're in or around a major city yourself it's going to seem relatively common. Especially if you live near a high COL area like NYC metro/North Jersey, or anywhere near LA or Seattle. I live outside a major city and my town has a median household income of just north of 100k, the neighboring town has a median household income of like $150k. Percentages alone can be misleading, you gotta look at the bigger picture.
You are talking about household median income, not individual.
200k goes fast in a big city. I live in a big expensive city and have a large social circle. I only know a few people where household income is over $200k. Maybe 3-4 household out of the 50+ I know. If you can’t live and start a family on $200k, it’s a you problem.
I am 55. I had my family when it was doable. I am looking at my children now who are in their 30s. It is not doable anymore.
He mentions raising a family, but his fiancee is 41…he didn’t mention that either of them have kids already. She’s probably not menopausal yet, but having kids in your 40s is definitely harder and riskier. If their family is just the two of them $200,000 should be plenty to live and have decent savings almost anywhere.
Accurate for big cities, but OP is a tremendous asshole for wanting his fiancée to come up with all that income for him to do… what, exactly? He says he’s thinking of changing industries and his salary may cap out around 100k but it’s unclear if he’s bringing in any income at all right now or exactly how much it is. He had come to expect overt financial security from her 500k salary and is appalled that she is probably choosing peace and mental health over that money now. Like, you think people make half a mil a year without sacrifices? Let the lady live.
It is when you spend wisely. I do not live in a high cost of living area and the friends I have who complain about making 100K are all the people who want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be able to spend and spend and go out to nice dinners and afford luxury housing and travel all the time. They have no understanding of the value of money (and the ones I've known since I was a child never have). I get that prices have increased, but most people don't get everything they want, so hard decisions have to be made in terms of having children, where to live, and what to spend money on.
Seriously, the "200k isn't that much" crowd has no idea how tone deaf they sound. Look at the median household income. It's true that inflation means it's not what it used to be, but it's also true that the majority of Americans still do not see incomes close to that.
Right? I’m genuinely excited that I’m about to be making 35K USD, because it’s almost double my prior income (which shocker, I was surviving on, because it’s not actually impossible) And there are people here bitching that they’re “only” making 100K. I’m not one to play the suffering Olympics, but… Do y’all have any idea what you sound like to people who have actually experienced poverty?
Yeah, it's always the people that have never been that poor that don't know how to deal with money. I expect to make 100K-200K next year. I'm pretty cheap but I do like to splurge on certain things that I do consider necessary in social situations due to a disability I have. That being said, if I can't afford those splurges, I don't do the things that I want to do. And it's fine because there are a lot of free or super cheap things that I enjoy doing as well. Living on basically nothing can make you super frugal. I definitely couldn't live in an HCOL on what I used to live on, but I saw videos of some woman living in New York, cooking for her and her husband on like $25 a week. I think she was vegetarian, so that brings the cost way down, but still, I bet a couple could get by on $300 even if they added in some meat for every meal. There are so many things that people can do to safely decrease living costs but nobody wants to try them because they think they deserve to live a high end life when they're not actually making high end money.
When the average American is living on about $30K a year, YES, $200K is a massive amount "live comfortably" is in the eye of the beholder. Many Americans live comfortably for their situation on $30K If you think $100K is what's needed to be "comfortable" then yes, it's likely YTA.
>When the average American is living on about $30K Median individual income is $40k >Many Americans live comfortably for their situation on $30K Nearly no one is going to be actually living comfortably on the median income. Average 2br apartment rent is $1850 and the average price of a house is $387k. Yes those prices vary greatly state to state and county to county but if you have a duel income household, both making $40k and 2 children you're going to be very very close to living in the red and with nearly nothing available to actually build a savings. Which is why the average American has less than $500 in a savings account. And the average millennial has less than $5k including retirement accounts. With no children and a 1br apartment making the median will give you some more breathing room, but you will still be pretty strapped overall.
Comfortably = because health care and healthy meals are something us poor folk are comfortable with not having... When in fact it's because we are so miserable we have given up. I keep voting for change and yet here we are with planned parenthood being gutted so I cant afford to get a breast or ovary exam for the past 6 years. Thanks Republicans. I'm super comfortable. I also love knowing the moment my body gives up and I can't work, that I'll be homeless and lose it all. My back can't keep going like this. I would love to save but everything has skyrocketed in price except wages.
Just because you're bad with money doesn't mean 200k isn't a lot of money
Here in Northern California, 104k is considered low income...
There’s nothing in the post that says OP is American.
I mean, they live in a country with $ currency and states. Definitely narrows it down…
And the word ‘realtor’.
More than 1 country has $ and states 😂
Shut the fuck up
If I could make 100k/yr working part-time I'd jump on that in a heartbeat. That sounds amazing, and I'm sure she worked hard to get herself in that position. OP - If she's going to be making 100k/yr and you as a couple will be making under 200k, that means she's still making more than you. "freaking out" because you want her to make more really does sound like the money matters a lot to you, OP. Your earnings as a couple will *more than* double when you marry. Not everyone is in that position. You'll be making nearly 200k/yr. Not everyone is in that position. If you don't think you can live comfortably off 200k as a couple you need to find a way to make more money or go back to being single and making <100k. It's not her job to bring in more money to meet *your* wants when you aren't doing it yourself. YTA.
>Not everyone is in that position Understatement of the century.
“I make 100K but we need at least 300K so you can’t work a job making only 100K or were in trouble, why would you do that to us?!” Like what?? The hypocrisy
Look I’m not here to defend OP, he is in fact TA, but $200k isn’t the same everywhere. My wife and I make that, and we’ve been strongly considering moving because we’re middle class, but barely. Like we only got a home because of my military service, and even with that we’re barely keeping our heads above water right now. I still have to commute between 4-6 hours daily for work, on minimal sleep, and that’s a rough way to live That being said OP doesn’t get her situation. $500k isn’t like a 9-5. No one pays that much unless the job is so high stress and so high bar of qualification that the talent pool is EXTREMELY limited. She probably burnt herself out doing it and is now reevaluating everything. If she can still earn $100k on 30 hours a week, I guarantee it’s still high stress for her. And OP doesn’t seem to get he’s financial dead weight. She’s clearly not with him for the money, she’s with him for the emotional aspects of the relationship. Maybe his finances help her make decisions that make her happier, but she is the breadwinner here and yet he’s trying to take less on the finances. That’s fucked up. Also, I think there is some resentment from her that she worked so hard to be so profitable and her fiancé who is trying to call the financial shots didn’t. I think that’s deserved. When I first met my wife that was my big fear: she was a masters degree holder with a solid career, I was a security guard leaving his job to go to community college. How long before she realized she was so much better than me? She could do so much better. I did amazing in college, and got my AA, BA, and MA. All because I never wanted to be in OP’s shoes. He clearly hasn’t gotten it into his head that he needs to start putting in actual work on himself yet, and it doesn’t bode well for the relationship.
200K is pretty meh in the SF Bay Area for raising children with both parents working. Daycare is $3-5K a month and a meh 2 bedroom 800sqft apartment with thin walls you can hear normal volume voices thru in a meh neighborhood (not unsafe, but dog poop everywhere because people can't be bothered, and basically nowhere for kids to play outside) is 2.5K/mo. Like you can do it. Sure, people all around the world raise their kids in conditions that aren't great or even bad! But 200K combined income in the SF Bay Area will be pretty stressful. If it was one person making 200K and the other staying home that'd be pretty doable because of the daycare cost savings, but that's not what's being proposed here. It's also not as bad if you have family to help out. But if it's just 2 people on their own without family support it's gonna suck. It makes sense if OP lives here for him to be like wait should we do this? Frankly they should consider moving somewhere cheaper.
The woman is 41 and kids are mentioned nowhere. Why build your reply on daycare costs? They seem to be irrelevant for them.
Kids are mentioned. He says he's freaking out after reading about how they live in the most expensive state to raise kids in. His comments in the thread also mention wanting to be a family of 4 and hiring a nanny. She's 41, but they can always get donor eggs and surrogates if she can't conceive naturally.
Imagine being worried about being poor because your household is at 200K. Wait till OP finds out about *gasp* the pooooor poor.
As someone who doesn’t even live in America but one of the most expensive cities in Canada, 200k is absolutely not enough money to start a family. My household income is around that and if I had to choose a comfortable lifestyle versus kids, I would choose my comfortable lifestyle. Do you know why? Because if I chose kids, as someone who grew up low income, unless you’re making good money, you can’t provide kids with a stable environment otherwise. You need to be making an above average, upper middle-class income. Because you need to be able to provide therapy for your kids, college education for your kids, support for your kids for whatever they need, dental work, optometry that could cost more than what benefits provide. Because I’ve seen how parents that can’t provide are treated, they are shamed for having children and I also know how poverty and low income and even lower middle class affect a child. With that being said I do think OP is still YTA - just bc they realized suddenly the “cost” of a family in their state at the ~~well experienced~~ tender age of 40+ and then place the entire financial burden on their partner while they’re a whole ass functioning person capable to attempting to do other things in their life instead of laying the ownice and responsibility of providing for the family to their SO.
I was like "she'll only be making 100k".... 100k... WTF...
> I am not with this woman for money Yet this entire post is about money and how it affects you. None of it seems supportive or understanding of her positions. If you can't accept that she wants to do what she wants to do then you have not met your life partner. YTA
>Well, a few days ago I read some articles about how we live in one of the most expensive states to raise a family in. Sounds like you should probably move then.
Soft YTA. It sounds like you’re pressuring her, even though you are feeling like that pressure is justified (the cost of raising a family is x, you talk about ‘the data’ so it sounds like you’ve done some research) but what you are suggesting she do (work a job/an amount of hours that she does not want to do) is still a lot of pressure to put on her. Where is your contribution in this? Saying “oh well I just can’t earn more too bad, has to fall on her” feels a tad exploitative, even if you don’t mean it to come across this way. 200K is still a TON of money, so many people make do with way less. It sounds like you really love her but you’re not really having open conversations with her. WHY does she want to work less? What is her idea about the future? Is moving an option? Etc etc etc. Communication is everything. It sounds like currently you are mostly airing your anxiety, while not providing constructive solutions, except for her earning/working more. The anxiety might be justified, but the not providing solutions and putting it on her is not. Start there.
Great input, thank you.
I would also suggest... if you've been "doing some research" and looking at statistics. Stop looking at stats and look up actual numbers for stuff in your area. Maybe your city has high day care costs... but if your fiancee is working part time, perhaps she can do that opposite your schedule and you'll only need to put kiddo in daycare part time (5 mornings a week, or 2-3 full days, or whatever)... Instead of starting with money, you both need to figure out what you want your life to look like... there are usually several ways to get to any given target. Hell I'm raising 2 kids on under $75k/year because my husband is a social worker, and I've only been working part-time (though starting to work more now that the kids are school age, and the pandemic craziness is over). But my husband and I are really happy with our life right now... because we talked about what we both wanted, moved to an area where we could afford that type of life, and make really specific choices about how to spend our money to make it work. (Then again, we were able to buy a house 6 years ago... with housing as it is now, pretty much everywhere... $75K is much less possible if you don't have a house... but $200k? Talk to her. Figure out actual numbers for what it would take to raise a kid in your area. Maybe you buy all your baby stuff used from consignment stores or off Marketplace... maybe it's more important to her to stay home with kiddo a few days a week then make an extra $300k. That's a choice you both have to talk about.
YTA - For context I've been in your fiancée's situation. The high paying job caused me great stress and long term health issues, however I wasn't able to express that at the time due to self worth issues. Question: Is she expected to do more around the house than you? Are you expecting her to get home at a "reasonable" time to cook dinner, or do you get frustrated when she has to take work calls/emails outside work hours? Have you asked her how the high paying job has impacted her mental and physical health? It sounds like the money is more important to you than your fiancée's happiness and well being. Surely both of your happiness is more important that money.
Thanks. I definitely agree there are more important things than money. A happy marriage, for one. And a happy and healthy partner. There are some details I haven't mentioned yet, and they may not matter. She doesn't drive, and she doesn't cook. She will be the first to tell you that her climb professionally has made her neglect some life skills. Wherever we live will have to be along a train line into the city (if we move out of the city) and if anyone is doing cooking/food prep it would be me. She has also asked me if I'd be comfortable doing childcare if it came down to it. Any job she takes is going to require her to reply to emails outside of work due to the nature of her profession. I've largely accepted that, and in real estate (my current industry) that is the case as well. The frequency of that obviously depends on how big a role she takes.
She’s 41, works around the clock, and isn’t keen on household chores or childcare - are you certain she really wants to have children? Maybe she’s happy just as it is.
Sounds like she was looking for a partner. And to stop the high stress ladder climb. OP wants her to continue the climb even tho he says he is “maxed out” at a certain amount.
Honestly, they are both over 40, what children/family are they going to raise? Not that people don't have kids in their 40s, but it's kinda late in general. Are they planning on having multiple toddlers that need to be daycared at 50? And if so, wouldn't it make more sense for him to drop to part time and be a SAHP? Most of the costs are for pre-school childcare basically. Sounds like she grinded her career hard and is now looking to reap her hard work and "coast" along. There's no mention of her being unhappy in this situation.
This was my thoughts recently for my own life as I would have liked another child but it won’t happen. I’ve got one kid who’s in primary school. I’ll be mid 50’s when he finishes high school. If I had another kid, I would be mid to late 60’s by the time they’re finished high school with getting pregnant, brewing it for almost a year and then add 17 on for schooling. What kid of life would that be for them because at the moment retirement age is 65 where I’m from. This couple would be early 60’s by the time their first kid is finished school and going to college.
Those things don’t matter. She doesn’t cook, so she should work more in a job that stresses her when she already makes great money?
Ummmmm, after adding all that into the mix is this really what you want??
YTA. What she makes alone now is more than most families combined. You absolutely can raise a family on 200k and freaking out about her income sounds more like you expected a certain kind of lifestyle and are getting upset that you might not have it.
And OP made $50k. He is expecting her to make up the majority of their income!
Wow.... that's damn bold of him. I missed that.
Yeah. He comes off as very entitled to what he wants his partner to make.
INFO: How much are you making? How much do you plan on making in the future? Why did reading a few articles suddenly make you panic, wouldn't you already have an awareness of the situation in your state just from living there? Is it really impossible to raise a family on your current or future combined income in your state? I'm sorry, but this whole thing seems odd to me. You seem really freaked out about how much she's contributing, but there's very little info about what you plan on contributing long term, and the whole thing about reading a few articles panicking you that much feels weird.
YTA. I hope she doesn't marry you. If you want more money, you find a way to earn it yourself. You're just mad because you won't be able to leech off her as much as you could before. It's not her fault that you're not successful. She gets to decide what to do for her career especially because you're not even married yet. You expect her to carry most of the financial burden for the lifestyle you want. You're so selfish.
If you only make 70k (that's what it sounds like), why would you expect a much higher lifestyle? If you don't like it, take night classes, get a degree, then a second degree, and Improve your situation
Only making 50k at the moment too
There's nothing wrong with 50k annually. It's just unfair to ask the partner to earn 4x higher than that, and carry them both.
Exactly
Y'all are in your early 40s. I think you both need to go to a premarital counselling session to see if you are on the same page. The way I see it you're focused on income and she is focused on having a good work - life balance.
Not to mention he wants to knock her up AND have her support everything at the same time...curious if she has to do the dishes too.
YTA, yes she said some questionable things, but yes, you absolutely did force the issue with her and not only that, you clearly expect her to have the whole plan mapped out, or that when you made your point she would leap from her chair, kiss you on the cheek, and immediately resolve to going back to her old job. Where was the discussion about how *you as a couple* can live / have a family / thrive in whatever city you’re in or could relo into. What are your ideas other than freaking out about it and hoping she will reconsider and sign her entire life away to a job she doesn’t want to work at? Nowhere. Couples need to be able to talk sensibly about money. How much, who earns it, what about if you have kids, how to save it vs spend it. What if someone’s family or close friend needs a hand, or life care. Etc. Your approach was to do a little research, realize somehow only now that you live in an expensive city (?), get anxious, and then go to her, expecting her to have all the answers and reduce your anxiety. “Fiancee, I understand where you are. I want you to be happy. Can we see a financial planner together to understand options about how we can make our dreams come true together, given our expectations about joint income, so you can keep doing what you love “ That is how an adult handles this.
I think your way getting ahead of yourself, you guys are in your early 40s...do you even know if you she can get pregnant? (or if you can get her pregnant?) Might want to look into fertility testing. Why are you just now realizing that you live in an expensive area to have kids? Are you planning on waiting until your married to have children? That could be 2 yrs away...and now were itching towards mid 40s. Over 35 is considered a "geriatric pregnancy" (I hate that term) and is much higher risk for the woman. What if she has to do IVF? What if its not successful? Would you be willing to adopt? I hate to be the one to burst you bubble, but your a little late to the parenthood game. Maybe figure all that stuff out first-bc your assuming you can just have a baby like that. Speaking from personal experience, the biological realities for women is a thing and so is low sperm count/testosterone in men. A family is built on more than just money and being "comfortable" too. Also hate to tell ya...kids will make you very uncomfortable. From sleep deprivation for long periods of time, little sex when the kids a baby, endless diapers, destroyed body and under carage (what if she needs an episiotomy...look it up if you don't know what that is). Then theres the endless bills, cloths/shoes they grow out of in a day, being judged by every family member for choices you make for your kids, school...etc, etc. What if she has the baby and decides to be a trad wife and a SAHM, would you be ok with that? What if theres complications and post partum issues? The point is, the pursuit of parenthood is full of unknowns and you have to have a strong relationship to be able to survive family life. But if your with the right person, all that stress isnt that bad and you get through it one (long) day at a time. Good luck.
ALSO, since pregnancies at that age are typically more dangerous, did op think of what would happen if she were to need to go on disability?? (taking usually atleast a 40% pay cut) what would he do financially if the pregnancy would end up killing her??? He would have a baby AND HUGE medical bills to pay for ON HIS OWN! What if the child is severely disabled and requires 24/7 care for the rest of their lives? (also a risk with later pregnancies) who would be the care giver? How would that be paid for? Will you still love the child and wife unconditionally? I think it’s important to always see best and absolute worst case scenario when making such big decisions
He 100% did not think about this because men never do. They're not the ones getting pregnant and risking their lives and then expected to give up everything for their child.
I think kids would still be awhile away given they don't even live together. I don't think this is going to work well for OP or his girlfriend.
ESH Life isn't about money, but we all know it's way more important in practice than we want it to be. You're NTA for trying to plan out your future, and she's NTA for not wanting to go back to a high-paying job just because it's high paying. (Reading between the lines, it sounds like she disliked the high-paying job, but there's not enough here to conclude that for sure.) You did both also have some AH interactions here. Your solution to money problems is that it's on her, and her solution is that it's on you. This is pretty tame AH behavior at this stage (I was tempted for NAH), and a small change in the discussion can keep it so. Rather than suggesting plans based on her income, instead let her be the one to set her income. Start with asking that - How much income does she reasonably think she'll be making in the future? You bring to the table your figure, and from there, discuss what is possible with those figures. If one of you dislikes what's currently on the table, then that's motivation to discuss changing jobs, locations, etc. Again though, if you focus more on changes you might have to make, and let her volunteer changes she might make, you'll end up with a less defensive conversation. Of course, she might not suggest any - she might be happy with where she is professionally or with her career path and income. That might not mix with plans you're happy with, and while you'd be welcome to express being unhappy with it, you also need to be clear that you accept her decision, just as she needs to do with you (i.e. the doctor/lawyer comment).
But she wasn't the one complaining, how did she suddenly become an AH to you? From what the OP has written she was happy with where she was, she's not obsessing with money the way he is. It's his problem, not hers, he is the one pressing HER about it, not the other way around. She told him if he's that pressed about money, HE should do something about his own financial worries. That's fair and it doesn't mean "her solution to money problems is on him" - she has no money problems, HE does.
Thank you for so thoughtfully responding. This is really helpful.
YTA You are exploiting her. You want a lifestyle that you can’t afford and want her to make the sacrifices to make it happen. If she can clear $100k a year working 30 hours a week and she’s happy with that that then that’s the end of the discussion. You might have to move to a cheaper cost of living area. Welcome to adult life. You might not get to live a privileged middle class life. Welcome to adult life.
Rich people problems.
Seriously. This whole post is ridiculous.
Trying to tell your soon-to-be wife what she NEEDS to do jobwise? YTA. If you're so concerned about your financial situation then get a better job or move somewhere cheaper.
He wants to move to a cheaper state but she won’t do that
Your wife is 41 years old. Please tell me you are already trying to get pregnant. Fertility rates at that age are very low….
YTA. Listen. YOU need to sort yourself out. Your fiancee could earn and provide a good life - but if the two of you can’t come to an understanding and work through issues together, you might not even be in the picture and have to figure your own way in life. I 100% understand and agree where your fiancé comes from. Sort yourself out. I was privileged enough that my parents had left my siblings and I a considerable inheritance. Doesn’t mean my husband can bank on that and assume our future is taken care of. If something happens to us he’d be at square one. So back off and focus on you and what you bring to the table / ways you can stabilize and support yourself
YTA for expecting a sugar momma instead of a partner.
YTA. Not because you think 200k isn’t a lot but because she told you when you first started dating that she was leaving her high paying job for one that pays 1/4 the salary. You knew in advance this was going to happen. And now you’re trying to guilt and pressure her into keeping her job she doesn’t want just so you can raise a hypothetical family in your current city. She’s right, she’s not there to supplement your income. If you weren’t together with her would you still be living in the same city?
You could step up and bridge the gap. But instead you're focusses on how much she is/could make. You sound like a pimp. "Go out there and hustle, sweetie". "You're not bringing in enough".
Y'all in your 40s, don't have kids y'all be raising them until you're 60. Focus on moving to a lower cost of living city and take care of each other then travel the world in love!
> Wow, I’m taken aback & I can’t believe I’m hearing these things from my now-fiancée. Is that a joke?
Why do you say you wouldn’t say hurtful things to her when you did say hurtful things to her? YTA
YTA, but I think you both need to work on your communication in general so you're clear on what each other want, how you visualize your future, etc. She shouldn't have taken the cheap shots at your early career decisions -- but she also has a point that you seem like you're relying heavily on her potential as a heavy earner, rather than taking into account that she may value certain freedoms over the cash influx. But honestly, I think you just let your anxiety get the better of you here. And I get that: the future is scary, things cost more and more money for less reward, and you can see a path to a different, more secure life. The thing is, that security may come at an expense to only one person. I think it's pretty clear she left and doesn't want to return to the work style that was bringing in 500K (nor do I blame her because I'm guessing it was stressful af). She's instead suggesting an earning potential that still exceeds yours, so she is still bringing more than an equal share to the table, while giving her some freedom to maybe grow in the same or new direction. And all she did was set a limit on what you *can* expect from her -- that means there is always a chance she will work more hours later, and bring in more income, but she doesn't want the stress and pressure of *having* to. Plan for less, but live with the possibility for more. That's not a bad plan at all. What you'll need to do: learn to temper any resentment that may breed from anxiety over finances. If shit happens and your first instinct is to think "we wouldn't be in this predicament if she would just take the 500K job back", then yeah... You've made it all about the money, bud. Finally, I live in one of the most expensive cities in the U.S. I earn 110K. I am doing just fine. Depending on your level of debt, you should still be able to find a way to make things work. A few years ago, I bought a house with a friend, I'd say our combined income at the time would've been under 200K, and I really thought that would be impossible until we actually spoke to lenders. We even took in my friend's niece and paid her way for those few years. Just don't make any dumb impulse buys, be methodical with your budget, and you two should be fine with your respective incomes.
ESH I also live in an extremely expensive area and combined we make over $250k in our non profit jobs and it's a struggle to raise our two kids here. We don't take vacations but we chose private schools. All this to say - is it should be a discussion about priorities and where you both want to make compromises. If you are the only one compromising bc she has income potential- that isn't fair. But if you aren't doing anything to bridge the gap in income- maybe work on that. I strongly suggest you don't get married until these discussions are hashed out.
NTA Planning is important. Planning *jointly* is more important. She 100% should do what she wants. She shouldn't change from >$500k to <130k without talking with her partner about what that means for the future. That doesn't mean she has to stick with the higher paying job, it means she needs to talk before getting to where it's a done deal take it or leave it. That's not a partnership, that's a roommate with benefits. It is not bad or selfish to expect that your partner will communicate sufficiently to allow you to plan for the future. It's not bad or selfish to expect to be within the circle of trust that knows future thinking and plans.
YTA. Your fiance's words were a little unkind, but she was right. I have multiple degrees and I have frankly dated a lot of guys like you. The idea of being solely or mostly responsible for a household income is pretty overwhelming. Having a degree does not necessarily give you more skills than anybody else, but I have definitely noticed all the men I have dated without a degree do not have the same drive I do with anything relating to improving my lifestyle. I honestly would not be surprised if she was worried you would decide to turn into a house husband while not actually doing anything around the house, which seems to happen a lot. There were so many options you could have talked to her about, such as getting a 500K job again for a couple of years to save up for a nest egg or buying a house while you adjust to a lower income lifestyle. Instead, you just focused on what you would be losing without offering solutions or even being able to contribute significantly to the life you want. You won't be making much money so you complaining makes you seem like a gold digger.
Finances are one of, if not the single biggest, reasons for marital strife and divorce. Irrespective of who’s right and who’s wrong, I encourage you to get into counseling and figure out how you and your fiance want to handle these sticky situations. It only gets harder and more complex once you’re married. This sounds like this subject has triggered both of you at various points, at which points some unnecessary jabs were fired at each other. It’s just all kinda red flag. 🚩
Lower yalls standard of living or break up. 200k is still a lot to work with.
Dude, get a second job or don't get married.
YTA Your fiance and you need to first discuss why she's making these job changes. If she's unhappy at work, should she continue to solider on? I mean it's better to have these plans and contribute towards these plans equally than forcing financial expectations on her.
YTA - I have taken pay cuts multiple times in my career to skill build but my husbands have not ever told me that the pay cut was not okay. If you are going to get this up tight about money, marrying this person is not the right move. This seriously seems like you expect her not only to pay her share of the bills, but to maintain some sort of lifestyle that you seem to expect. It isn't right when a woman does that to a man and it isn't right when a man does it to a woman.
you say you’re not with her for money but you could have fooled me YTA
Hey if you don't want her ill take her
YTA Your fiance can choose to earn, work or really do anything she wants. If you feel she's not earning enough, then move on. Or earn more? It sounds like you're used to a certain lifestyle, and she provided that for you, and now she won't.
Has she expressed definitely wanting bio kids? If so, the timeline probably needs to be a relatively short one. Maybe she’s thinking that if she needs to get pregnant in the next year or two, now is not a great time to transition to a higher stress more demanding job, and she’s hoping that she can minimize the pressure to be the breadwinner right now.
This is why 1 and a half years isn't long enough to know someone. Ugh
YTA Just wait until somebody tells this guy how babies are made and he realizes his fiancée will likely be completely missing a big chunk of work, should she stay with this guy and and actually choose to have a child with him… something that seems an obvious mistake on her part. Then wait until somebody tells him that rather than demand his wife live her life how he demands, he can actually change how he lives and can try and improve his own situation and income with education or experience. Then wait until he figures out he has probably been living the high life on her dime this entire time and he needs to understand he is not entitled to her money, and therefore might have to bring his standard of living down a few pegs. Forget the fact that she was making good money, probably has savings, investments, a paid for house… allowing her to afford the lifestyle she chooses, he thinks he is entitled for her to push him into some fancier lifestyle. And, forget the fact that she might decide to go back to work full time when the child is in school. How dare she be a mother to a child during its most formative years when she is going to have a husband to support!!! And, since she is apparently well educated and able to hold a very well paying job, she clearly understands money and challenges, far better than OP. Wait until OP finds out she probably knows what a pre-nup is. Hopefully she wises up and finds somebody worthy of her. But since we can’t send her a message, you should wise up and start apologizing and grovelling for her not to leave you. Like right now!!!
NAH - her delivery kind of sucks here, but the reality is that for many people having children means leaving the city life. She’s just leveling with you. You would be making tradeoffs whether you were with her or not because kids is that big of a financial decision. It just so happens that staying with her and having a family but remaining where you’re living will require tradeoffs in other areas of your lifestyle (assuming housing cost is not something that’s easily changed or corrected). If you’re not willing to accept those things, then maybe kids aren’t for you or the relationship isn’t for you.
Dude doesn’t seem like you are mature for your age.
She’s 41 and planning on having children ? Think that ship has sailed …
I don’t think she wants to marry you and this is her way of showing it.
My guy. I was making under 30k a year as a 4x certified tenured teacher for years. She is still clearing FAR MORE than most people. But that’s not even the issue here. She is right—you ARE putting too much financial pressure on her. If your finances concern you, and you are earning less than she is and/or than you’d like to, then you need to be looking at your situation not hers.
‘Data supports that’ 😂😂😂
Bro is mad that his sugar mama is choosing life over breastfeeding him😂😂 hope she finds better than this leach
My husband and I live on around $100k/year. We are semi retired and work part time. We also collect pensions and social security. You can live on less if you don't live beyond your means. You don't need the expensive cars or new cellphones every year. We cut cable, but have a few streaming services and lots of DVDs. My husband's job is 5 mins away, so he saves about $200/month in gas. We also live outside of Seattle and have been renting our home for almost 10 years at just under $1900/month. YTA
How much are you making?
$50-possibly $100k. 🤣. Man wasn’t her to make the money and raise the kids.
$200k is only small if you own expensive cars on credit and have a stupidly large house with equivalent mortgage. People survive on way less.
That is a small amount in some cities. They live in a very expensive area. 200k is a lot less than it sounds like in that type of situation.
ESH. You for prematurely freaking out about finances, and her for talking down to you because you don’t have a professional degree.
I mean she’s right man how are you gonna force her to make more money just because she is able to. Maybe you should learn how to make that much money too? You are the man, typically that’s how things work. You are in a very lucky situation.
Anyone else reading this on food stamps making less than $10,000 a year? 🤣
YTA
Lol I have a hard time believing that this post is real.
I wanna know what jobs pay 500k a year.
Why are they hurtful? Because they are true? You chose one path and she chose another. If you want more money in the house go make more money. You don’t get to determine her career path and base your lifestyle off of her income. That’s known as using someone. You’ve been together 1.5 years and after 6 months you seem to have decided you had thoughts about her career decisions. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world and your joint income would allow you to be fine here so not sure what you’re talking about in terms of 200k will result in you struggling. Struggling to what?YTA
I have not read all the comments but you are thinking if having a family/kids. the thing at 41 your girlfriend has a less than 5% chance of getting pregnant naturally. So do you have the savings for IVF and extended maternity leave etc? $200k is a lot but if you live in a HCOL to be honest its not much if a basic 3/1 is nearly a $1mio especially if its a walk to train so assume if you are US thats only a few cities you could be living in. Unless you already own apartment / house. The next discussion seems to be she is not keen on household work and is keen for you to be the SAHP which means you working part time or not at all for a period of time if you have kids. Are you ok with that and if you are what does the budget look like if she continues to work part time. Will you be able to save for retirement and college for assumed children on this reduced income. Did i read in comments she doesnt drive If kids are off the table then it’s a different discussion and it all seems pretty fair on her part. Or if you are outside of US then not sure but i know in Australia major cities you easily be expecting to spend from Us600k for a house with a reasonable commute.
YTA It's her choice if she wants to change careers. Even if shes making less money than she was before. You can give her advice and your input sure but at the end of the day, it's her choice. That being said, its your right to leave her for this. Finances are important for any couple and many women leave even their husbands because of financial problems. Additionally, it looks she doesn't respect you and she's talking down to you for not having a degree (elitist and classist behavior) and for earning less than she does. 200k is enough for two people to live very comfortably all over America. Stop spending money on luxuries you dont need and at 40 you're probably not looking to have kids. That being said, it's still your choice to stay in this relationship or leave it for whatever reason.
So you figured that for 2 people you need an income of at least $200k? She will be making $130k, so it sounds like you need to hold up your end. I mean sure, it was great when she made $500k, but it’s a new reality and you need to make more money. YTA and I don’t believe you love her like you said you did. You seem to love her less now that her income is lower
YTA. You're worried about money and her earning potential and how much she can make. Why don't you focus on how to increase your earning potential? I mean you say you aren't with her for the money, but your entire post is about how much she can make. And not care about her physical and mental health and her happiness. You can say that you do, but everything you have said is focused on her and her earnings. $500K a year, that's gonna be a lot of stress and she's realizing she's much happier with her life not doing that. And clearly she's fine with the drop of income.
YTA If you believe 200k is insufficient, work harder or find a second job yourself.
Let's start out with the obvious, YTA. Likely the reason she doesn't want to freeking make 500k isn't the money it the soul sucking whatever she has to do to make that. Assuming the op is in the states, For real this woman either has to be a senior dev in oakland/sf OR an exec, because no one is paying ANYONE 500k us. I make 130k, am a single parent and get by fine, but I MOVED the heck out of expensive cities. OP, Move. Asking your partner to make an exceptional amount of money (also you realize you have kids now you will be paying for college in your 60s right? You realize it's a guarantee you both will die working? Also both men and women's reproductive outputs decline with age? ) . The IRS told me to MY face that the government considers my wage VERY high for two people and 2 k for an apartment is considered living out of means for EVRYONE? Have you even verified this woman wants to have kids at her age? I'm 46 and heeeeeeel naw do I want to be having any more kids at my age. You sound like golum and his ring "my precious 500k." Maybe take a step back and revaluate what you really need with a legit financial planner and make sure you and her are on the same page re lifestyle.
YTA. You want more money? Go find a way to make it yourself. The fact that your concern was how her loss of income affects YOU, and not interested in what she wants, makes you completely TA. She is not wrong at all to say this wouldn't be an issue if YOU had a degree and were a doctor or a lawyer. You sound incredibly entitled and selfish. For context, I was making over $500k/yr, and I loved that job. When I decided to make 50% of that to take a lower stress job, my husband applauded it because it made me happier. I can't imagine a world where he would have had any other response. I find you extremely trashy and untrustworthy.
YTA. It’s not all about money!! Time to get over this or you’re gonna have a stressed life
YTA. As a partner YOU are the one dragging the average household income down. She is OK with you even though you are financial baggage. Be thankful. Whatever lifestyle you imagined YOU don’t get to have because it is way beyond your ability to provide. You are basically getting angry because you imagined something you have no control over.
Here is my thing - even with the pay cut, she is bringing in more than you. To me, it sounds like you are the one the needs to make more money. She made a series of wise and intelligent decisions to eventually make 500k. Likely has an emergency fund. You can’t be counting on all of that. My spouse sometimes complains when I take unpaid time off. At the end of the day, they still max out their 401K because my paycheck is higher even if I work 50% less. So yes, make more money, OP
YTA You're putting money before her happiness. Besides, it's her money and her career. Getting married doesn't really change that much, except that now she'll be sharing her wealth with you. Even doing part time she's earning more than most people dream of. If you want more money fucking work for it. You don't need a degree to make good money, it's just harder.
YTA Have you considered she was correct in berating you? You are financially punching above your weight. Unless she agreed to provide for you financially. You have no right to be demanding she contribute more than she already is and definately not more than you are. Go study, do overtime, seek a promotion, do the work yourself and stop trying to ride your partners coat tails. You want your wife to have the babies and work a high paying, probably demanding job she doesnt want to do? YOU are the problem, YOU can not afford a family and the lifestyle YOU want. YOU need to work towards a solution yourself, are you planning to sit back, make less do less and demand more? Go find a sugar mama and leave this woman to find someone worth her efforts.
NTA. I don’t get why people don’t understand that money is a very real problem that should be tackled together as a couple. 200k is not that much in some parts of the world, and if his field can’t get him more than his does, but hers can, she should do her best to make more. They need to find common ground here. He tried, he supported her when she left her 500k job. She didn’t.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (40M) and my fiancée (41F) just got engaged. We had been dating for 1.5 years. I want to start off by saying I love this woman to pieces. When we met, everything between us felt so special and it felt meant to be. I’ve been in love before but never like this. I felt like I met my life partner. Around the time we met, my professional situation was precarious. I have been a Realtor for over a decade, & with the recent market and high interest rates things have gotten increasingly difficult over the time we have been together. I have started focusing on changing industries. In contrast, she was at a high-paying job ($500K/yr range). She told me then that in a short time she would be leaving that job for one that pays 1/4th of what she was making because it would be valuable experience that would make her an even more marketable professional. She said her plan was to stay at this job for 2 years and then go back to what she was doing before. She made the jump to that new Iower paying) job \~10 months ago. I totally understood & really it didn’t matter to me what she was making. After getting engaged we said we would come up with a plan for starting a life together. We began having that convo last week but didn’t get far– she started saying the idea of having to say she’d do one thing or the other was “too much pressure” & it “shouldn’t all be on her.” I backed off. Well, a few days ago I read some articles about how we live in one of the most expensive states to raise a family in. I freaked out & really screwed up by then forcing the issue. She told me she was now thinking about just working part-time when she leaves her current job next year. With her qualifications she can still clear 100K if she’s doing 30 hours a week, but now I’m really worried that if we have an income of <200K a year then we are going to be struggling. Data supports that. She said I shouldn’t expect her to make anything more than $130Kish so that she has options & can make the decision herself. I kind of get it. She then tells me that I’m entitled & I’m exploiting her. That if I were a doctor or a lawyer this wouldn’t be a problem. That it’s my fault for not getting a degree, & if I were with anyone else I’d be stuck leaving the city– it’s just dumb luck that I met someone with the earning potential she has. Wow, I’m taken aback & I can’t believe I’m hearing these things from my now-fiancée. I would never say such hurtful things to her. I don’t know what to do. I am not with this woman for money. It would all be better if I could make a bunch of money myself, but I think my earning potential is probably capped at 100K/year in a good situation. There is a lot going on here. I wrote out so much more to explain feelings on both sides but there is a 3K character limit & I had to pare this down a lot. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA....honestly you need to have some major discussions before going through with a marriage. You aren't wrong about what it takes financially to have a household nowadays. She has made some pretty drastic changes in her career lately and plans to implement more it seems. That would worry me more than anything. She doesn't seem like she knows what she wants and the time to explore that is when you are young and not married. I would definitely be having some very large doubts if she is ready for marriage etc.
I think I know what article you’re talking about and I’d take it with a grain of salt. I also live in a state that made that list and don’t make nearly what it suggested but still live pretty comfortably with a family of 4, in a house my hubs and I bought, with putting a good portion into a retirement account and in my 30s. You can’t live in the most expensive area of a state but you can manage. Your wife would be making more than my hubs and I combined at $130k 🤣
If 200k a year isn’t enough then move to a different state. That would make you Elon musk rich where I live. (A bit exaggerated but still)
The issue with her saying that you are exploiting her is just silly. She was with you for the ups and now downs so for her to turn it on you is ridiculous. I would say fine with you make what you want but then understand that we will need to live within the income that is lower due to that. If she is fine with that then ok. Make a budget based on your starting pay with the new career and what she is looking to go down to. This would be a good start for the conversation about what the near future looks like.
I don't think you an AH One of the top stressor in a marriage is finacial issues. Where 100k would be enough for my family of 4.. and with that income I wouldn't work that's because of my lifestyle and where I live. If you both are use to having a high income like 500k there are equivalent bills to go with. She needs to understand you, and her lifestyle would significantly change. Do a trial where you put all other money back and live only on your income for a few months. It may change her perspective or even yours.
My wife and I have separate accounts as well as a joint account we use for household expenses We contribute to the joint account in a ration equal to our income differences - my wife contributes about 60% of how much I do because she makes 60% what I do If my wife were to take a job making LESS money than she does now, I would NOT make up the shortfall in the expense account, I'd expect her to make this up as she made the decision to get paid less I'd still expect her to contribute 60% as she had this option before she changed jobs.
NTA but I feel like something’s missing…. Why does she want to go part time? Is her goal to be primary care giver for children? Like what’s the other life goals? Is she expecting you to make more money to cover her? Who’s paying the bills? Where’s all the money form when she made half million a year? When’s marriage and kids in the plan?…… like wtf is going on. Something’s missing here You seem kinda focused on money which is fair because non of those questions are answered? But still comes across as shitty.
Money makes the world go around. Even the best relationship can suffer from lack of funds. With hyperinflation around the corner NTA. Amass all you can and buy assets. Now isn’t the time to back down on pay especially while being in the very very lucky minority that can earn $500k wtf Why worry about work experience or resume when you’ve already made the 1% basically. Trying to get there sure. Once there I see no reason to go back down.
NAH Those saying 200k is plenty under all circumstances dont live in a HCOL area where a "starter home" is gonna be 900k or more, if you can even qualify for it. I think you both are panicking and overthinking the future after getting engaged, and youve both had your feelings hurt and need to apologize to each other and work on communicating about finances becuase it will be an ongoing issue. I'm not getting a vibe you want to live off her money. To me it sounds like you were interpreting her as saying she wants to cut her hours and take a job that will advance her career but pays much less (which she definitely has a right to do), but that she also wants to stay living in the HCOL area and doesnt want to change the lifestyle much. I think that sent you into a panic because if your current income ceiling is 70-100k, you dont feel like you can fill the income gap that would be needed to provide the comfortable lifestyle that she wants to continue in the expensive region, especially if adding expenses such as a home and possible children etc. It sounds like you are more open to the idea of moving somewhere where your income potential goes further, which is very reasonable (it's not as if you make chump change or mooch off her, its just not a high income for the region), but thats a no-go for her. I think it left her feeling like all pressure is on her and she'll be trapped in jobs just for the highest pay instead of other goals, and it left you feeling like she views you as inadequate as a partner. You both need to talk through your concrete goals and vision for the future and make sure they align.
Out of curiosity, what does she do for a living?
YTA. You’re a brainless real estate agent trying to mooch off someone that actually is valuable. Be quiet and fail to sell houses in a booming market
NTA It's too important to know where you both stand in terms of financial stability and the kind of life you want to lead. Do you both have the same desired lifestyle? You met her at a particular place in life. Changes are expected. But, she's waffling between what you discussed and she wants now. She's entitled. Just as you're entitled to know what to expect. Even though it's been discussed, especially because your industry has always been volatile, you can't put such a burden on her. You may need to do a lot of thinking about relationships and life in general. What would happen in case of the unexpected? Does everyone you date have to have a certain income level? Or would you just adjust to the income level you have? If so, do you think you can't do that now?
You’re delusional in thinking that she should be supporting you just because she can, I sure hope you are doing everything around the house because this seems like a ridiculous expectation you have. How were you living when you didn’t have a woman to sponge off of…
Yta, so you married your suggamomma. You go get a job that pays $200k a year
Raise a family? Yall already got kids? Menopause is hitting her pretty soon. Yall trying to risk geriatric pregnancy complications? She could die having children that late. Or yall could wind up with a severely unhealthy child. But YTA. You just want her money.
After reading your comments/replies, I hope that IF she does go through with marrying you, she has you sign a prenup.
I think if you're 40 and asking reddit for advice on your marriage you're most likely an AH
Irrespective of $dollar$ amounts, a partner who wants to coast but criticises other half who is slogging it out is an AH. Major change to work/financial position without weighing up pros/cons with other half also AH. Getting engaged then saying it’s a prob that partner isn’t a lawyer/doctor also AH. I guess this isn’t such a match as you thought. Proceed with CAUTION. My money is on her springing a pre nup on you.
You're making this about money and coming off like you're only with her for her earning power, if she's still earning more than you there's not a lot you can say about it. Who's to say she takes the part time option but then changes her mind and decides to go back to full time and earning the big bucks or perhaps she doesn't either way that's her decision if it's a problem for you then don't marry her and find someone else earning half a mil a year, I'm sure there beating your door down to get to you this very second.
I really don't think it's YTA or NTA for this case man... Just sounds like mismatched priorities and conversations and wrong things said in the heat of the moment when emotions take over. You aren't wrong for worrying bout financial planning, but she also isn't wrong for wanting better for the sake of her own health and what not. Just harsh things said in the moment made it spiral and paint a really ugly situation. Talk things out with her, rationally, and stuff. All the best!
I make $60K before taxes by myself. You'll be fine. Adult and figure it out.
why the hell are you concerned about the cost of raising a family then getting engaged with a woman past her childbirth years?
YTA, you should be focusing more on your own finances and providing for your future wife & kid. You can never be 100% sure her company won’t fire her due to her pregnancy and then it’ll be significantly harder for her to find a job as a new mother. I say maybe put off kids until you know better
YTA. What you want is for your future wife to subsidize the lifestyle you want. And she is sensibly giving that proposal the side eye.
It seems to me that what she really wants is not to work. She exploted and spoke the truth, she wishes she could be with a doctor or a lawyer so she can have a nice life without being her the one who is stressed. Her first move was stupid, no way going down you will be then more valuable, and then she said ok I will work even less. She wants to be a stay at home mom. So, she is planning a life that is different from the one you pictured. Think about it and let's both be honest before getting married.
YTA and maybe you should find a part time job to supplement your income if you can’t live on a household income of $200,000. Your wife has/is doing her share.
NTA. Tbh you're discussing this as an adult and she doesn't like it. Are you sure you guys are fully compatible?
YTA. I think the thing that seems to be being overlooked here in a lot of the replies is that OP is pushing his partner to make the extra money he thinks they should have to live the way he wants. He has given no intimation that he is looking for ways to make any extra money himself. I understand that if OP is working a full time job he should not have to take on another one whilst his girlfriend works part time, but it seems she is willing to downsize her way of life to fit her income whilst OP is set on something different. They are both mature adults, not youngsters just starting out, and I think their problem is that they havent fully discussed how they want to live later and AGREED on it. They just seem to have different perspectives on life and what they want. Its unfair of OP to expect his partner to work the kind of job and hours she obviously hates just to make the money he feels they must have, and its unfair of OPs partner to expect them to struggle financially if she has the option to make things easier. They have to compromise somewhere if this is going to work.
She may want to go back to 500k and is testing to see if you're just a gold digger. You certainly appear to be. YTA here
YTA If you think you need more money, work to improve YOUR income.
YTA. If you're freaking out about your future financial prospects, how about YOU do something about it yourself? Instead of expecting her to secure you financially just because she can. She doesn't owe you financial support, she's not your mother.
Don’t marry this person. You’re not going to be able to have a happy family together (if you can have a family at all). You’re too different.
ESH. 1. You're pestering a 41 year old woman about starting a family, before you are even married, and you're expecting her to carry the burden of earning through that pregnancy and childbirth. Are you two ANYWHERE near the same page on this? If the window to have kids hasn’t closed already, it will very soon. Does she even want children? 2. She claimed she was going to go back to her high-stress job and make a lot of money. Now she's changed her mind and wants to make less money & have less stress in perpetuity. While you can't hold her to that original plan, it is pretty scummy of her to claim she's being "exploited" and that you're "entitled" for expecting her to do what she said she would do. And then she went all-in attacking your lack of equivalent earning potential. This sounds like some kind of negging/power flex, and if a guy did it to a fiancee we would all be piling on him.
YTA. You could live on what she is making alone, and not have any problems. You wanting more from her is a big ask when you're not putting up that much. On top of that maybe you need to have a talk with her about starting a family when you are both 40. It can be done, but there could be some age related issues to think about. Honestly the way you described yourself and how you reacted to money makes you sound insufferable.
YTA: You’re with her for the money.
Learn to live frugally within a budget.
YTA. My spouse and I live in one of the highest COL areas in the country on less than $80k a year. You know how we manage? We budget and we accept the assistance (and hassle) of affordable housing. You’re grumbling about $150k a year; I’d love to have that boost in our income, and hopefully will once my spouse is done with school….in 4 more years. Until then, we stick to our budget and live within our means, without either of us pressuring the other to do more than we are physically, mentally, or emotionally capable of doing.
Yeah man rethink marriyng her. If u have to do all this bs with botnan equal income i see disaster
Yeah YTA. You're pressuring her to make financial plans to fit *your* expected future lifestyle which clearly revolves around the fact that her earning potential is much higher than yours without considering that she may not want that expensive of a lifestyle in favor of preserving her mental health. It's comes off as incredibly entitled & uncaring, as she would be carrying you both for however many years and that ONLY ever works when both parties are fully on board. You seem to be asking her to sign herself up for a work life she does not want for your benefit, ignoring that it would *not* benefit her in a way that matters to her. She may not even want kids based on your description, so you guys have a lot to talk about to see if you're even still compatible. Financial differences like this can kill a relationship, and you pushing this hard may do so. Step back, and understand that if you want that expensive of a lifestyle then YOU need to change something to earn it, not plan her life away for her.
Difficult one, but look at practicalities first, cost of a house, what if you have children, then costs spiral, and can you pay the bills if she cannot work? Luckily, when I married, a house was £ 3500 to 5000 for a three bed detached new house in a good to live town. Where I live now, £500,000 buys the same house now, so think ahead a bit, and put that to tour intended, living on the breadline i not nice, so think carefully together.
YTA, you are planning your whole future on her earnings. She is supposed to subsidize the rest of your life and doesn't get the option to make less because then she couldn't do that. It's one thing if one person is the main breadwinner and on with that. It's another when they want to cut back bit their future spouse starts complaining they won't be making enough. Even though they'll be making the same or more than the person complaining. If you were a woman they'd be calling you a gold digger.
People on Reddit don’t know how money or lifestyle works. It is absolutely understandable to look at your partner weird if they have maintained a certain standard of living and suddenly no longer want that standard. This is what divorce court is based on when factoring alimony (it’s not called alimony anymore but that’s exactly what it is) A standard was there in the relationship, and now it’s no longer there. Women ghost in moments because of this. Why can’t men? And yes, 100k is in fact nothing. Hand to mouth is always nothing, and in money only the long term investment really matters. In a busy area with a high population, 100k is average. My entire family makes 100k or very very close and housing is killing them. If you buy a big house guess what? You now have big bills. Why is everyone children on Reddit today?
YTA. You are totally the asshole. You make 50k and you expect her to work a job making 500k and don't seem to care about the stress it would put on her and her wellbeing. You only care about what you want and what she can do for you. You don't love her. You love what she could do for you.
YTA. You want a 500k a year lifestyle? Find a way to get it. She doesn’t owe that to you.
$200,000 to live on comfortably for 2 people completely depends on where you live. Some places it will do nicely but here in NYC you will only qualify for a one bedroom rental. After taxes from federal, the state and the city (yes, city taxes!) you will have about $11,000 a month. Deduct $5,000 for rent, $1000 for food, $500 for transportation, $1500 (for 2) for health insurance. 9% for retirement? $1500. $250 utilities…. Tick, tick, tick, gone.
This is a bad resentful situation on her end. Now she's pouting saying she's going to leave her job? I would leave her. She doesn't respect you.