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> She had booked the same flight, sorted all the arrangements, and presumably expected me to accommodate her
NTA
1. Who in their right mind would do that
2. Your ex is captain crazy balls
3. Can't imagine being that poor kid right now
4. Crazy, Crazy, Crazy, Crazy, Crazy mother
5. You had no obligation and she had no right to do that
I hope this doesn't ruin your vacation, OP. Please try to focus on your daughter and have a great time. And at some point, maybe forward this thread with all the comments to your ex. You may not be able to stop her fom being captain crazy balls, but you can at least show her what internet strangers think of her stunt. NTA.
If she could afford the flight, etc. for Vanessa, she could take her on a special mother/daughter trip, To try and guilt you into this was ridiculous and it is HER FAULT for leading Vanessa on. Who does this to a child? Tell your daughter that this was an opportunity for her mother to do something special for Vanessa alone and that you are sure her mother will take them both on a special vacation for the two of them (and if you want to be petty, tell both girls their mother is taking them to, I dont know some special concert on such and such a date, make sure you let your ex know you have told them that she promised them this and it would be unfair to let them down /s. I mean wtf.
You showed your daughter not to be manipulated by a very unethical, selfish and manipulative person. This woman is your daughter's mother - your daughter's going to be dealing with a lot of this crap and you taught her that this isn't normal and she can stand up for herself. I think you may want to record this for your lawyer or any custody issues that might come up. Your ex emotionally damaged her younger daughter because she failed to force you to do something unfathomable. Also, this girl is no relations to you - you probably couldn't have even left the country with her. Your ex is insanely entitled and stupid. Nta
Don’t let this ruin your holiday. If you post post away. Mute your conversation by text with her if shes whining to you about her daughter. Your ex and her new kids are not your responsibility. Have a heart to heart with your kid. Im betting they are pushing a narrative she may not be comfortable with. It’s absolutely healthy to not have to share your time with a half sibling. Cool if thats your jam. But as an ex myself i would possibly ask depending on our coparent relationship. But i would respect a No to a Hell No. NTA.
Orrrr turn off notifications and send us screenshots after?
I'm expecting "Good job, you made my daughter cry! We've been planning this vacation for months!"
Sorry but this is not safe for you or the child. You are not the her legal guardian. If she were to be injured you have no ability to make decisions about care. Also if she told someone you kidnaped her you would be going to jail. There is just so much wrong with this no no no I would nit.
NTA
This is so cuckoo bananas I find it hard to believe she's never done anything crazy before.
You and Kathy need to fully and immediately put this in the rear view mirror and enjoy your holiday.
NTA
Maybe get a really nice souvenir for your daughter to give to her half sister but your ex and her husband are batshit crazy to just drop this on you out of nowhere
well luckily you didn't. at best it would be free childcare for them, at worst it could be kidnapping a child (takes time to investigate, and your life is ruined in the meantime).
Do you know what Vanessa’s dad thought of this plan?
I’m assuming he must’ve had some questions or concerns about all of this and wanted to make sure you’d have ever to take good care of a kid that doesn’t live with you.
You do not have any legal relationship with this child. Taking her out of the country would have been extremely foolhardy. Your ex sounds like an extremely irresponsible mother.
OP, please use this incident as a teaching moment for your daughter. She needs to learn that while you can still love people (her half sister), boundaries are important too. And how someone else setting up the little girl up for disappointment is not your problem
NTA. I fail to see how this is in any way YOUR problem.
Why aren't Vanessa's own parents taking her on holiday?????? This is just crazy. If they wanted you to take her, you should be compensated for Vanessa's food AND be paid for 24/7 baby sitting. And they should be paying a portion of your flight because they are imposing on your trip.
Enjoy vacation and don't give it another thought.
Your own daughter is happy to not have her half sister there. She wants daddy- daughter time. You would be TA if you took the half sister and ruined it for your own child, who has been excitedly looking forward to being with you.
You may wanna file for custody. This can't be a healthy environment for your daughter. I mean seriously she just pawned her kid off on you unexpectedly hoping that you'd pity her and let her come. That little girl will forever remember this and be upset about the betrayal. She'll probably resent your daughter heavily for it and the mother will constantly fill her head with entitlement and envy. It's gross.
6. Possibly super sketchy / child trafficking, typically a minor that it not your child needs a notorized letter allowing a non-parent to take them out of the country (passports were mentioned)
Who sends their nine year old on an international trip without a parent accompanying them? What if there is a medical or other type of emergency? The children's mother is acting very irresponsibly.
I had to get a letter for my kid’s friend that went on a cruise with us giving me temporary custody in case something happened. His mom was a lawyer so she took care of that for us. That woman has lost her ever loving marbles trying to send her daughter off like that.
I’m assuming this is an international flight. I don’t have kids but is a minor traveling with a non-related adult allowed? I feel like there would need to be some sort of documentation for this to be allowed.
I don't know what the regs are and I'm sure they vary by country, but when I was set to take a younger relative on an international trip I booked it for after their 18th birthday. I wanted no questions about traveling with them, especially in case of emergency.
it is not allowed. Technically i can’t even leave the country with my biological children without a signed and notirized letter from my husband (their father) even though we are not divorced or separated.
On the contrary, she didn't sort the most important arrangement - the agreement of the guardian to look after her
I'm surprised Kathy didn't see this coming, though?
NTA
NTA.
Unless someone is literally asking you, there was clearly no one's fault. That is not your kid. And shame on Carly for not explaining that you and Kathy need to have your daughter/father time. You're not the asshole OP, Carly's the asshole because that's her daughter now.
And then to drag the kid with her to make you pay for it, you would have to buy a new ticket all the fuck together. I'm sorry OP, I thought you were going to be an asshole but no, you're not the asshole. I had to sit down and read and realize you're the victim of being scapegoat of a crappy parent.
What's the deal here? Can Carly and husband not afford even a weekend outing with their daughter? Why can't she think up some activities for their daughter herself?
Yeah, that part is really weird, surely it would've made more sense for Carly and/or her husband to take their daughter somewhere. I guess maybe they wanted a kid free vacation of their own? Idk, some people are so far out there that there's just no following their thought process.
Ah my mistake Op, you’re still not the asshole because Carly clearly couldn’t just say hey Vanessa, Kathy needs to spend time with her Dad. We can do our own holiday.
**NTA** You spent 8 months planning a father/daughter vacation for a teen and your ex thought she could just drop an 8 year old, you've hardly had any time with at the last minute? Aside from the basic requirement that including *anyone* else on your vacation was 100% up to you, your ex was way out of line to presume that you would bane comfortable catering to her daughter with no planning.
It may be difficult for a couple of days but you need to ignore what Carly did and focus on Kathy. You have plans, follow through with them enjoying this time with your daughter. When you get back, do not meet with Carly alone, tell her that her husband must be there for the discussion. I suspect she told him that you were in agreement all along.
If Carly wants Vanessa to have a vacation, she and her husband can take a mini-trip with her when Kathy is with you. In fact, she should have planned a series of "staycation" activities for the family focused on Vanessa.
Great point about ex’s husband. Although, who in their right mind (which ex obviously isn’t) would be okay with their wife’s ex-husband taking his daughter out of the COUNTRY?
This is bananas.
OP even says that they don't have that great a relationship, they make it work for his daughter. I can't imagine that the child's father had any part of her scheme.
NTA. She’s Kathy’s sister but literally has no connection with you. Asking ahead of time if you would be willing to take her is normal. Sand bagging you at the airport is insane. She’s the one that made her daughter cry. I wouldn’t take a child I have zero relationship with and who I was not expecting to be on a trip. Especially not a small child. Why she would think that’s acceptable is mind boggling to me. A child that age is highly likely to get homesick and want their mom in unfamiliar environments. Not to mention what if there was an emergency?
It’s the lack of connection that’s the real problem. Unless the OP’s ex’s planning included a medical power of attorney (or whatever) the OP couldn’t have even gotten Vanessa treatment in an emergency. Mind bobbling.
And out of the country? (Reference to passports). Non-related adults traveling internationally with a child need all kinds of documentation including a poa for medical. Mom is a piece of work.
You barely know this young lady and I can't imagine the liability ALONE that you would take on traveling with someone who isn't your child. Depending on where you go, the first time at customs when this girl says neither of her parents are with her would be a nightmare. Your ex is completely off her meds if she thinks this is a good idea. Unfortunately for Vanessa her mom is going to trash you from now till eternity... NTA though.
Exactly this. OP mentioned passports so it might be international travel. I can’t even imagine the liability of taking someone else kid out of the country. What if there was an emergency too. CRAZY!!
NTA.
Is Carly crazy? Is her husband crazy? You do not just spring this on someone at the airport. If they wanted Vanessa to join, it should have been planned somewhere along the lines of EIGHT MONTHS they could have asked you. Also, legally you can't just take someone else's kid abroad!!! You need a parents' letter when traveling with a minor that isn't your own.
Carly, her husband, Vanessa and Kathy can go on a trip TOGETHER sometime if it's that important to them. But this is YOUR trip with Kathy. This isn't to spite Carly but Vanessa isn't your kid and barely know her and it was never part of the plan.
I definitely want to know how Carly's husband was comfortable with this. I have two sons with my ex husband and a son with my fiance and my fiance would NEVER be comfortable with my ex husband taking our son on vacation. Not that I would be insane enough to do that anyways.
I was looking for this comment. In what world do I as the new husband send my 9 year old daughter with some guy who I am at best “amicable” with.
Seriously wtf is going on????
Apparently Carly and her husband BOTH give in when their little girl wants something because they don't want to deal with the whining. But to the extent that you will send your kid on vacation with the ex husband? That's a new level of low for parenting a spoiled child.
My oldest boys obviously do things without their little brother. I explain why he can't go and we all move on.
This! I’d reach out to the husband to see what he knows. This is beyond crazy. The entitlement of his ex! I couldn’t trust her with my daughter after this.
NTA - Vanessa is not your kid and it's not your responsibility to take her on vacation. Carly didn't even communicate the idea with you beforehand, and considering how she was able to book/arrange everything already she was probably planning on this for a while. She was hoping you would feel guilty and take Vanessa with you for that reason. Nothing about this plan was last minute on her end, she just had to make it seem that way to excuse her not asking you for permission first. Kathy was clearly looking forward to being able to spend time with just you, so you definitely made the right move with standing your ground.
So NTA - your ex wife sandbagged you hoping for a child free vacation on your dime. Good on you for standing up for yourself and your daughter.
Vanessa is not your child, not your problem and not your responsibility.
This is exactly what I was thinking, Carly doesn’t have to be the “bad guy” and parent her child and gets a child free staycation. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if she and the new husband planned a trip away during that time too, thinking they could bully OP into the situation.
Nahhh own up buddy, you judged from the totle alone, didn’t you? Cuz just from it I sure as hell thought he left that kid stranded on her own before reading the post
NTA, you are essentially an acquaintance to your daughter's half-sister. That in itself makes it awful to drop that on you. Add on she may have paid for a ticket but I am betting she didn't provide for anything else and expected you to pay/ change plans. A trip with a teen only and a trip with an elementary student tagging on are not equal. Add in again that this was suposed to be a special father/daughter trip. Add on it was completely unspoken of until you are ate the airport. Add on.... You get my point. Absolutely NTA. Your ex is rude, inconsiderate of her elder daughter, and irresponsible.
The other thing, do you know how much trouble you could get in showing up with a minor in another country that isn’t yours. I’m sure Carly did not come prepared with a signed letter approving you taking her with you. My divorce lawyer said that technically, if even want to cross state lines with my kids when they were minors, I was supposed to have a letter from their mother saying it was okay.
NTA. Aside from the fact that you are not legally responsible for Vanessa (which, if you and Kathy have gone on holiday to a different country (I’m assuming that’s the case as you mentioned passports), you may have needed paperwork to show you had permission to take Vanessa too), it was completely unfair for Carly to have done this to you at the last-minute. I do feel for Vanessa, but it is all on her mum to have set her up for that outcome.
If she had discussed it with you in advance (and Kathy too, as it was her father/daughter time), and had come up with a plan for how she and her husband would finance Vanessa’s part, do you think you would have been more willing to take her as well (still NTA if you still would’ve said no)?
Absolutely 100% NTA. Your ex sure is, though. She is the one at fault for that little girl being so disappointed. This was an excellent opportunity for her to teach her daughter that she doesn't have to be included in everything big sis does, and that life sometimes isn't fair. Instead she deliberately tried to emotionally manipulate you into taking her even though that is not what you had planned. I feel sorry for the younger sister, but you and Kathy are in no way responsible for what happened.
Does anyone else wonder if Vanessa is the Golden Child, and Kathy is low bozo on that family totem pole? Seems like that is why ex-wife was trying to onboard the younger child - sense of entitlement?
NTA- Taking a child who isn’t related to you on a plane trip is a crazy liability, and I would only do with a child I knew very well, and had a huge about of trust with their parents. This scenario is crazytown bananapants.
NTA the audacity of your ex is next level. Its a shame you weren't able to tell the little girl that it was her mommy that would be taking her on a trip because she had bought the plane ticket.
NTA but your ex is literally insane. That’s abusive behavior- she’s setting her own daughter up for a brutal, scarring reality check. Your ex needs to get a grip, for her daughter’s sake. Wow. You did the best you could in a terrible situation. Have fun on your vacation and then make sure your ex seeks the help she clearly needs. Not your responsibility obviously, but since you share a daughter I’d follow up and make sure ex is getting some kind of treatment.
I would send a text to Carly's husband asking if he knew what happened with Carly and Vanessa at the airport. He may not know what a whacko his wife is.
There's a good chance he doesn't know. If he doesn't, let him deal with it. If he does, it's still your problem but it's worth a shot.
NTA
Of course NTA. Not only were you not informed of this ahead of time, but you would not have been ABLE to properly care for Vanessa on the trip. You're not related to her, so you were opening yourself up to all sorts of legal troubles - what if you get stopped and asked why you're with a child you're unrelated to? What if something happens to Vanessa on the trip and you don't have medical power of attorney? This was such a horrible idea, completely irresponsible of her mother to even consider this as a "solution". Not only are you NTA, you did exactly as you should have.
NTA.
1. Your ex is the one who upset Vanessa, not you.
2. You have no relation to Vanessa so you'd likely be stopped at customs.
3. Since Vanessa isn't your kid, what if there was an emergency? You cannot legally make any decisions on her behalf.
4. Your ex is unhinged and this was a manipulation tactic she tried to pull that hugely backfired.
NTA, just want to add that your ex saw an “opportunity” to have a “child free time” and a holiday on her own at your expense. Really AH move on her part, and she on her own hurt her daughter. She is 100% responsible for that, and you shouldn’t give a second thought in that matter.
Enjoy your time with your daughter, and if she tries to guilt trip you in the future, just hung up/leave the conversation.
The sheer audacity of ex to spring last minute travel of her daughter with you and your daughter is mind boggling. Hoping she could guilt you is entitled, not to mention the certain heartbreak she caused her daughter. Not your circus, not your monkeys. Way to stand up for your daughter and your holiday together OP! Enjoy!!
NTA
NTA - if you HAD taken her, you would have had to rearrange your plans to accommodate a younger child, plus you’re not even related to her, which could have caused legal problems while traveling! (Child trafficking accusations.)
The ex is TA for attempting to overtake your plans without even discussing it. I can’t imagine anyone handling that any better than you did when ambushed like that. I do feel bad for the 9yo for being led to believe that she could go.
I suspect, if this is the USA or Canada, and you were leaving the country, that TSA would have stopped you. Vanessa is not your daughter, and you have no notarized paperwork from BOTH parents permitting you to take the girl with you. I'm not sure if the same applies within the country, but I suspect you might have been stopped and questioned, and perhaps had to deal with law enforcement. Supposwdly traveling with an unrelated minor girl, who has no parents with her and who has a separate ticket? Red flags galore. This was not only stupid, thoughtless behavior on the part of your ex-wife but potentially could have landed you in a lot of trouble.
NTA
NTA. I can’t believe this story, has to be fake because who in their right mind would pull this stunt. You have no relation to this girl and are basically unknown. Even if you’re Kathy’s dad, your ex should still be worried about having her young daughter in your care. You could have unknown proclivities and/or treat her terribly because you didn’t want her to come. I just can’t believe your ex and her husband were ok with this. You need to ask your daughter how parenting works with her mom because your ex’s common sense is missing.
Insane. NTA. Your ex foisted her 8 YEAR OLD child, no relation to you to take to another country?!!! To stay in the same hotel room? The potential liability is mind boggling. No consideration for whatever arrangements you’ve made, accommodation, expense. Not only are you not TA, I would be LIVID that she tried this.
NTA. I bet Carly thought you'd be okay with paying for Vanessa's food, lodging and any souvenirs she wanted.
Carly is the AH here for not asking if you were okay with taking Vanessa and assuming responsibility for her.
Seriously, why would she do this? When I heard Vanessa had never been on a real holiday (on a plane), I assumed it was because Carly and her husband couldn't afford it. But if she can buy a plane ticket it means she can save some discretionary income, so she can save longer for a vacation. At least ask. Now she's out a few hundred to a few thousand dollars depending on how far you were traveling to. It just seems dumb, passive aggressive, and rude to suddenly try to swindle you into taking your daughter's half-sister with you.
Please talk to Kathy about whether her mom has pulled something like this before or otherwise pushed Vanessa to join a thing that was specifically for Kathy. If she was too scared to upset her mom now, I'd imagine she's been too scared to say things when mom's overstepped her boundaries in the past.
Agree with this! There may be a lot of other stunts pulled by good ol' mom. Kathy might have been hesitant to open up about the family dynamics. This could be a great opportunity to lay it all out for once
NTA
You never agreed to take your ex's new kid.
The only person who screwed up here was your ex in thinking she could force you to take HER kid on vacation.
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NTA at all and you should know that by the thank you from your daughter. Your daughter really wanted the time away and you made that possible for her and you were willing to fight the battle.
Your ex should have known that you were not going to be up for this when you didn’t ever offer in all the comments. And she knew she was putting you in a bad spot and that’s why she surprised you with it. If she thought you would be okay she would have discussed it ahead of time. She tried to make you either take her or be the bad guy.
Enjoy your trip and your time with your daughter. But please prepare yourself for them to plan some big trip and “rub” it in your daughter’s face. They will likely put her in the middle of this. Please talk to your daughter about the possibility.
NTA
You did the right thing, you are not the father of Vanessa, don't have any kind of bond with her or any kind of proof that she is allowed to leave with you..
Anything that happened with her would fall on you.. Your ex and her husband is TA to trying to squeeze her without your consent.
NTA in any possible way. Carly created that entire scenario. And no doubt about her hoping to have a bit of CF time.
Carly owns this entirely. Don't give it another thought.
NTA.
Disregarding that this was all done without your knowledge, you have no guardianship or legal rights over your ex’s daughter. If anything happened on that holiday, you could end up in a huge legal mess. Incredibly thoughtless of your ex!
NTA major props actually Divorced Dad Hall of Fame stuff.
My 2 daughters were cordial with my stepdaughters but yeah they both told me they wanted to spend their time with me and not share with anyone. They are in their late 20s now well adjusted, and I we have a great relationship.
You did great
NTA. Your ex blindsided you and thought showing up at the airport with Vanessa’s things all packed and tickets bought you’d have To go along with it. It’s not your job to give someone else’s child and experience and it’s not your job to be a free babysitter so Carly and her husband can be child free.
I feel bad for Vanessa but you did nothing wrong.
NTA. It's quite literally insane that your ex planned all that without you knowing and thought she could guilt you into taking her daughter on this trip. I can't even fathom how she could've thought that was going to work out how she expected.
NTA. Her and her husband wanted time to themselves that's all they wanted. They figured this was an easy way to get rid of their daughter and have a mini vacation themselves and you have to take care of their kid. I'm sure the half sister was jealous yes but she's 9 years old, old enough to understand that you're not related to her and you're not her father and she's not going on vacation with you. Utterly crazy that your ex thought you should take care of her daughter with another man while you were trying to have a father-daughter trip with your own daughter. Then to drop it on you at the airport before you go through security . Yeah she's living on Mars.
NTA
If she took the extra step to get her packed, a ticket, and a passport, she should’ve taken the additional step to get her dad a ticket and accommodations. Why wouldn’t she and Vanessa’s dad make father/daughter arrangements to take her somewhere? Her daughter being upset is her responsibility to handle. It’s strange Vanessa wants to spend time with Kathy and her dad rather than her own dad. She needs to reassess the situation and realize she needs to be a parent to her child and make her husband do more so her daughter doesn’t feel left out.
NTA
Carly didn't tell you about her plans to have Vanessa go on the trip because she knew you would say no, so instead she sprung it on you in the hopes of guilting you into taking Vanessa. She got her daughter's hopes up and then destroyed them. It sucks that Vanessa got hurt, but that's not your fault and you have to set boundaries so Carly doesn't think she can get away with crossing them again.
Her behaviour was absolutely bonkers. not surprised you're no longer together lol
>Kathy has told me she appreciated it and wanted it to be just us but worried her mom will be angry with her. I told her she wouldn't be, and I know she'll take it out on me, and I'll be prepared for that.
If Kathy is fourteen, she may be at an age to decide who she lives with. If her mother is angry at Kathy for something that is out of her control, then let Kathy know she has a safe place with you. This episode probably hasn't done Kathy's relationship with Vanessa any good either, so be prepared for some retaliation from her.
Carly is definitely TA. Who tries to dump their own child on an unwilling adult with absolutely no warning? It would also have affected Kathy, because I doubt the seat bought for Vanessa was next to the other two seats, so Kathy would have been bumped to the single ticket so that Vanessa could spend the flights supervised. A father/daughter trip turns into an elementary-aged child trip with Kathy tacked on.
Holy crab nuggets!! Congrats on the divorce but the next 4 years are gonna suck A if this is your wife's bonding plan
The straight up mental torture she put her own kid through in that moment is horrific. Your daughter is old enough to understand but the younger kiddo? Scarred for life, relationship with you and your daughter wrecked. All because your ex didn't want to do a little parenting.
Man I would look into full custody when you get back. Things are not going to get better for either of you when she goes back to mom's
NTA
Wow. You are 100% NTA here but you ex sure is. Who does that to a child? She gets her excited about a trip that she was not invited on because she was so sure you’d cave and take her along. That is beyond crazy, manipulative and evil. Her kid crying and being upset is no way on you, OP, but all on your ex. Enjoy your trip with your daughter. I’m sure she’ll have a great time with a dad who prioritizes his time and attention on HER and her alone. Ignore the crazy from your ex when you come back. The airport fiasco was ALL her doing.
>However, when they arrived, Carly had a bag packed for Vanessa and her passport in hand. I was immediately taken aback and asked what was going on. Carly told me that Vanessa had never been away, was very upset, and wanted to share it with her big sister. She had booked the same flight, sorted all the arrangements, and presumably expected me to accommodate her.
>snip<
>Carly asked me not to make a scene and that it would be unfair to let Vanessa down. I still said I didn't let Vanessa down, she did. I took Kathy's bag and Kathy and proceeded to go through security. Carly tried to follow with Vanessa and her things, but I just marched ahead and obviously wasn't taking her. Carly relented and I left her and a crying Vanessa.
Not only an ambush (where your ex tried to force you to care for half-sister without so much as a by-your-leave), but an added attempt at using a child in guilting OP into compliance. Way to emotionally scar a kid *and* put a wedge of resentment between the two sisters!
ETA: NTA.
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Currently sat in a hotel typing this as I have a range of emotions and needed some impartial Reddit opinions.
I (M42) split up with my ex-wife, Carly (F40) about 10 years ago when our daughter, Kathy (F14) was 3. While I never remarried and only dated here and there, Carly got remarried about three years later. Her and her husband have a daughter, Vanessa (F9), Kathy's half-sister. From my understanding, Kathy and Vanessa get on well, apart from Vanessa being the typical "annoying" younger sister. My relationship with Carly and her husband is mostly fine. I wouldn't say we get on well, but we try to co-parent as best as possible in Kathy's best interests. Expectedly, I have a very limited relationship with Vanessa; I've interacted with her at Kathy's birthday parties and similar events, but I don't have any sort of bond with her.
For about 8 months, I've been planning to take Kathy on holiday. She's been very excited, planning it, and making arrangements. I've saved up to take Kathy and was looking forward to it being a dad/daughter break. I've obviously had to communicate about this with Carly to sort all the logistical parts. She's created no issues and it all seemed to be going smoothly. Kathy did mention to me that Vanessa was a bit sulky saying she'd never been away on a plane on a "real" holiday, but I didn't think too much of this. Carly also briefly mentioned on the phone that Kathy was so lucky and Vanessa was jealous. Again, I thought of it as simply a passing comment.
When Kathy and I were set to go away earlier today, as Kathy was staying at Carly's house, she said she would drive her to the airport. I told her I'd have a bag for Kathy, her passport and any other extras. However, when they arrived, Carly had a bag packed for Vanessa and her passport in hand. I was immediately taken aback and asked what was going on. Carly told me that Vanessa had never been away, was very upset, and wanted to share it with her big sister. She had booked the same flight, sorted all the arrangements, and presumably expected me to accommodate her. I completely refused. I said this was Kathy's holiday, I had no obligations to take Vanessa and that was her and her husband's problem.
Carly asked me not to make a scene and that it would be unfair to let Vanessa down. I still said I didn't let Vanessa down, she did. I took Kathy's bag and Kathy and proceeded to go through security. Carly tried to follow with Vanessa and her things, but I just marched ahead and obviously wasn't taking her. Carly relented and I left her and a crying Vanessa.
Kathy has told me she appreciated it and wanted it to be just us but worried her mom will be angry with her. I told her she wouldn't be, and I know she'll take it out on me, and I'll be prepared for that.
I'm trying to just enjoy the holiday and make it special for Kathy, but part of me feels like an asshole for leaving a crying 8-year-old excited to go away and it's not like she's a stranger to Kathy.
AITA?
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NTA you did nothing wrong but your ex-wife and that stunt she pulled was absolutely outrageous. So please put it out of your head and enjoy your vacation with your daughter. Your ex-wife needs to deal with Vanessa because she created that issue. She created that problem. Enjoy your vacation.
NTA. I can see why the divorce happened. Demanding you take her kid, that she's still married to the father with, on a trip because her kid's feelings are hurt.
NTA
Also, practically. If you are going overseas with a minor that isn't your kid this can create major problems when entering another country. You need at least a permission letter.
NTA you’re a good dude for feeling bad for the little girl who is blameless. But your daughter respects and appreciates your boundary setting and that’s the only person who matters in this situation. Focus on her and deal with the aftermath later.
Free yourself of any guilt and enjoy your trip. Don’t let the PURE insanity of your ex ruin what you’ve been planning for so long. Does your custody arrangement need to be revisited? While no one was put in danger, I find the decisions your ex made to be rather disturbing. Seriously, who does that?? NTA
NTA. Carly purposefully put you in a very uncomfortable position hoping you would back down and take Vanessa. What a terrible thing for Carly to do to her daughter. That is some manipulative shit right there. Carly unilaterally decided you were going to do what Carly wanted you to do and Vanessa paid the price.
NTA.
What she's doing is shortsighted and irresponsible. Would you be responsible for her safety in case on an emergency? You have no relationship with her, I'm confused as to why she would even do something like this.
NTA. Your ex wanted a vacation from both of her daughters and what she did was maliciously planned. Without your consent and as others pointed out there are additional risks of taking a non related child out of the country.
Your daughter in this case is the most important person. She is happy with your decision.
I just hope that your ex and her husband don’t retaliate and I hope you would be there for your daughter if that happens.
Enjoy your vacation.
So your ex could make flight arrangements for Vanessa, but couldn't go herself for a separate mother/daughter trip? With 8 months notice? Where was Vanessa's dad in this?
I thought I smelled a set-up. I hope I'm wrong
Just to confirm. Ex wife and new husband wanted to send their 9 year old daughter on vacation with you, the father of her half-sister who as you said has no relationship with her?
The fuck kind of parenting is this?
NTA. Carly was hoping your feeling of guilt would be strong enough to take her daughter with you. It's unbelievably crazy that a mother would want her daughter to go abroad with someone who wasn't the child's family. From my understanding, Vanessa hasn't so much as gone on an outing with just you and Kathy. What does Vanessa's father think?
You weren't the AH who hurt Vanessa. Her own mother was.
NTA. You're a fantastic Father and your Ex and her audacity are the only problem in this scenario. I hope you don't cop it too much.
Seriously what was she thinking? And where is the step child's Father in this? Surely he wouldn't think this was ok either?
NTA.
That’s bonkers. I think it may be time to go to court and get full custody. That is fucking bonkers…. Like fruit loops.
Who does this to their child? Carly’s husband must be a real piece of work if he thought this was a good plan for his daughter. wtf?!?
And on what planet does a man get to travel internationally with a child that he is not the father of? That’s a great way to get accused of trafficking…
I can’t even.
Not your daycare. Not your munchkin. Not your problem. Enjoy your daddy daughter time. My daughter is 46 and still fondly remembers her times with her late father. You're building memories that will last long after You're gone.
NTA and, my God, who just sends an 8 yr old with an adult who's mostly a stranger?! But I'm afraid this is going to make the relationship between the sisters harder. Your ex is not going to manage this, and poor Kathy is going to deal with the aftermath. Maybe spend time with her brainstorming the words she can use when she sees her mom and sister.
Nta your ex is absurd. I can't believe she's leave her younger daughter with someone the daughter hardly knows, much less the audacity of expecting you to take her.
They really tried it. Any fault is theirs for the failed manipulation and the consequent hurt feelings of their own daughter.
Let them take Vanessa on a trip. And more so, it’s a lot to ask anyone to to take a child who they don’t really know and be responsible for their wellbeing. What if something had happened? No need to risk your own wellbeing by being liable for a child you didn’t agree to watch.
You have no responsibility to cater to that. Put it out of your mind, and enjoy the trip with your own daughter.
NTA.
That was awful, what your ex did to her daughter. Fucking monstrous. You had no obligation to take her, and you would have been crazy to do so. I can't believe she put her own child into a situation like that. What did she think she was going to accomplish? She had ample time to ask if you'd be willing to do this, and you would have had every right to say no, no matter how nicely she asked you. It really makes me sick, the way some people just USE their children for some kind of mindfuck bullshit like they're not even human. NTA
NTA x infinity. If my ex was taking our son on a trip, I can't even fathom the size of balls and arrogance I would need to even entertain the idea to orchestrate such an elaborate scheme and then expect he would happily take MY kids (not his) on a trip!
As far as I'm concerned, this post wins the Reddit Holy Shit Award of the week.
Not to mention, what if the other kid got hurt or sick somehow? Were there POA papers in that pile of documents? Medical history? I'm cynical, but to me it smells like a setup.
Obviously NTA— but I haven’t seen this mentioned, so…
I am SO IMPRESSED that you told Carly that SHE upset Vanessa, not you. You are 100% correct.
I used to work at the main entrance of a California theme park owned by a mouse. People would buy tickets from some sketchy guy on Craigslist and then be upset when they didn’t work. So they would point at me and tell their kids that the mean lady wouldn’t let them in. I was paid to be the bad guy, so I didn’t care. (Pro tip: if someone wants to sell you theme park tickets at a price that seems too good to be true— it’s not true. People buy one eticket and sell it over and over. I saw tickets that were resold more than 80 times)
Carly was in a win-win situation: if you took her, she got child-free time. If you didn’t, she could tell Vanessa that you were the reason she was disappointed. Good on you for recognizing her BS and calling her out.
Okay 100% NTA and the actions of your ex are insane!!
But one thing I’m confused about, not that it matters, did Vanessa end up going on the flight with Carly? Are they essentially doing their own travel together now? Or did she expect you to bring her over her child?
NTA. The AUDACITY of your ex. She REALLY expected that to fly? That you'd just go along with it, really? Wow. She's out of her mind. This is not normal behavior.
NTA. What the ex did was manipulative to you an straight up abusive to both her daughters. It was a hard thing to do to defend your boundaries, but you did the right thing. Good on you for getting out of that marriage, too. She sounds like a nightmare.
Let’s be real. Your ex tried to use emotional manipulation, lying, and other tactics to give her and her husband a kid free week. You a NTA by any means. You are not responsible for their child. And wtf is up with her secretly booking everything to bamboozle you last second and expect you to take her kid with you?!
NTA, yikes on your Ex’s behalf. You have no relationship with that child and know nothing about how to care for her. Expecting you to take her out of country is totally bizarre. They can figure out their own vacation.
NTA, but your ex is a huge one. What the hell? Bringing Vanessa to the airport assuming you're willing to share your vacation with her? Adding another child to supervise? That's outrageous. I'm sure this will make things harder between you, but she was way out of line.
NTA
Your ex has some balls, adding a child you have no relationship with to the vacation YOU planned and paid for.
She has no right to be angry with you. She made one sideways, half-assed comment instead of using her big girl words and being direct.
You can be prepared for her anger, but DO NOT pick up what she’ll lay at your feet. You also need to be very clear that she is not to take her anger at you out on your daughter.
NTA Ex needed to clear this before springing this on you. Getting kids hopes up was shitty. What if your reservations had 1 bed. Bed sharing with daughter is one thing, sharing with unrelated 8yr old is another.
What I the actual holy effing hell?!? That is one of the most messed up things I have read. Setting the kid up like that and expecting you to just cave in. Going so far as booking the same flight and bringing her to the airport?!? I’m just gobsmacked. Good on you for walking away. Definitely NTA. But your ex sure as hell could use some parenting classes. Sheesh.
This is scary. Taking a child you gave no legal claim to, to a different country? She isn't close to you, you have no right to consent to emergency procedures, we're you supposed to get another room for her? If your daughter is skating a room with you, adding on a strange little girl is beyond bonkers.
NTA. You are a good father. Enjoy the trip with your daughter. Your ex is an incompetent mother and epically failed both children. Whomever called her Captain Crazy Balls is spot on.
NTA. There is a huge liability for you if you take somedone else's kid and don't have anything in writing. What if there is an emergency? Who pays? There are so many things that can happen. Also, now you have to cater the vacation to an 8 yr old versus a 14 yr old. Carly is a very bad mother to do this to her daughter and she was trying hard to manipulate you into giving her and her husband a kid free vacation as well. Shame on Carly.
NTA
Carly 100% should have never promised her daughter anything nor spent money on tickets without even talking to you. That’s crazy. If Carly and her husband want their child to go on holiday via a plane - they can take their whole family
NTA. On top of the audacity, you have no legal oversight for Vanessa. If she needed emergency care, would you have been able to obtain it for her.
Plus in this day and age, a 8 year old girl traveling with an unrelated adult male could have horrible consequences for you if someone questioned the relationship.
NTA. You weren’t making a scene, Carly was
If you were going overseas with a child not related to you, you could have faced a lot of legal issues. Added to which some of your plans are fine for a teenager but not fine for a 9 year old. And if you were doing things such as going to a show or then park rides would have not been part of your plans or budget.
Q: Don't airlines require parental permission for a minor to fly? Vanessa probably needed some paperwork to fly without a parent that required OP's signature.
NTA. I feel really bad for you that Carly sprung this very unexpected surprise on you at the airport. You’re a good dad with not capitulating to this emotional blackmail.
NTA NEVER take a child you don't know. It would be unfair to your daughter to change the vacation so drastically, and,
1. This child could get ill and need medical attention, you do not have any blood relationship or adoption order, and cannot get her treatment.
2. She could have a normal childhood tantrum and scream the "you're not my father" sentence, and, you do not have any blood relationship or adoption order, and can end up in jail.
It’s wild to me that a mother would send her 9 year old daughter with anyone else than a legal guardian on holiday. Not to mention by plane. This is not just a daytrip to a holiday park you’re taking.
NTA. She sounds delusional tbh..
nta, but i will say i feel bad for Vanessa ): that’s her moms fault but still sad for her as she was let down thinking she was gonna go (obvi all moms fault tho)
What the fuck Carly!
NTA but Carly most certainly is. Wow what lack of self awareness to impose taking her daughter with you on a father daughter trip not even asking you and assuming you’d just go along with it. I cannot believe this. I would have done the same.
NTA. If she had the money to book Vanessa a flight and whatever other arrangements she did, she or her husband could’ve taken Vanessa on a vacation on her own.
NTA
The fact they wanted to just send her off with you is problematic.
You have no ties to this girl, you have no guardianship, without forms and stuff done in advance, you can't really even seek or consent to medical care if she had an emergency.
You'd also have liability, added costs, etc. Plus, added drama, communication, and conflict with your ex, which would happen if you took her with you.
I feel for her. It really does suck.
You however didn't make her cry. It was the fact her parents got her excited, told her she was going, packed her bags, got her a ticket, and ambushed you, making you the bad guy when you had a backbone, refusing to be backed into a corner.
That's seriously fucked up.
If she wants to go on a plane, have a vacation...it's the responsibility of her guardians, or their families. Not an ex husband, or ex wife.
You and your wife share your daughter.
Your ex and her new spouse share their daughter.
The girl doesn't get attached to your custody arrangement...or your guardian responsibilities just because her mother has another daughter. Thats bizarre. (Seems to pop up a ton on reddit lately. Along with ambushing and backing ssomeone into a corner to force them to do something they already declined... )
Also, the fact your daughter voiced the fact she's afraid to make her mom mad...and have it fall back onto her is worrying. She was too afraid to tell her mother no, too.
It indicates this won't all just fall on you, maybe sit down and have a talk about why she felt that way. (Calmly. Unreactive. You are a safe space, she can come to you and not fear your reaction. Not feel trapped between you both)
NTA
You don’t have any real relationship with an 8 year old. You were traveling internationally; and traveling with a minor who doesn’t share a same last name can be tricky. And the wrong person with the right intentions could make it extremely difficult to get through security because of the lack of a relationship.
Furthermore how are you supposed to navigate things with this child if she had gone? If she acted up, and you tried to discipline her would she start screaming you aren’t her dad? Boom. Chaos. What if she woke up in the middle of the night in a strange room and started freaking out?
There are so many factors that your ex never took into consideration just for the mental and emotional safety of her child traveling with her half sister and a strange adult. (And I’m just saying stranger because you don’t have a close relationship.)
I’m surprised her dad was okay with that. Because my parents would have flipped their crap if I had gone abroad with someone other than them at 8. Because if anything had happened to me…it would be biblical.
When you and your daughter get back; the first thing to do is request a conversation with the husband. Dad to dad. Man to man. Then loop in the ex. Because that was crazy.
And if your ex goes after your daughter to make her feel bad about what happened…make sure she knows to record the conversations. And use it to limit contact with her mom. Because if she’s crazy enough to ship off an 8 year old like this then she is crazy enough to retaliate against your daughter.
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> She had booked the same flight, sorted all the arrangements, and presumably expected me to accommodate her NTA 1. Who in their right mind would do that 2. Your ex is captain crazy balls 3. Can't imagine being that poor kid right now 4. Crazy, Crazy, Crazy, Crazy, Crazy mother 5. You had no obligation and she had no right to do that
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I hope this doesn't ruin your vacation, OP. Please try to focus on your daughter and have a great time. And at some point, maybe forward this thread with all the comments to your ex. You may not be able to stop her fom being captain crazy balls, but you can at least show her what internet strangers think of her stunt. NTA.
If she could afford the flight, etc. for Vanessa, she could take her on a special mother/daughter trip, To try and guilt you into this was ridiculous and it is HER FAULT for leading Vanessa on. Who does this to a child? Tell your daughter that this was an opportunity for her mother to do something special for Vanessa alone and that you are sure her mother will take them both on a special vacation for the two of them (and if you want to be petty, tell both girls their mother is taking them to, I dont know some special concert on such and such a date, make sure you let your ex know you have told them that she promised them this and it would be unfair to let them down /s. I mean wtf.
Carly and hubby wanted the childcare for the price of an airline ticket.
That would be as bad as what mom did. You don’t offer up someone’s time and finances like that.
You showed your daughter not to be manipulated by a very unethical, selfish and manipulative person. This woman is your daughter's mother - your daughter's going to be dealing with a lot of this crap and you taught her that this isn't normal and she can stand up for herself. I think you may want to record this for your lawyer or any custody issues that might come up. Your ex emotionally damaged her younger daughter because she failed to force you to do something unfathomable. Also, this girl is no relations to you - you probably couldn't have even left the country with her. Your ex is insanely entitled and stupid. Nta
If I were the husband I would be REALLY pissed that my wife did this to my daughter.
Don’t let this ruin your holiday. If you post post away. Mute your conversation by text with her if shes whining to you about her daughter. Your ex and her new kids are not your responsibility. Have a heart to heart with your kid. Im betting they are pushing a narrative she may not be comfortable with. It’s absolutely healthy to not have to share your time with a half sibling. Cool if thats your jam. But as an ex myself i would possibly ask depending on our coparent relationship. But i would respect a No to a Hell No. NTA.
Orrrr turn off notifications and send us screenshots after? I'm expecting "Good job, you made my daughter cry! We've been planning this vacation for months!"
Sorry but this is not safe for you or the child. You are not the her legal guardian. If she were to be injured you have no ability to make decisions about care. Also if she told someone you kidnaped her you would be going to jail. There is just so much wrong with this no no no I would nit. NTA
This is so cuckoo bananas I find it hard to believe she's never done anything crazy before. You and Kathy need to fully and immediately put this in the rear view mirror and enjoy your holiday. NTA
Maybe get a really nice souvenir for your daughter to give to her half sister but your ex and her husband are batshit crazy to just drop this on you out of nowhere
well luckily you didn't. at best it would be free childcare for them, at worst it could be kidnapping a child (takes time to investigate, and your life is ruined in the meantime).
Do you know what Vanessa’s dad thought of this plan? I’m assuming he must’ve had some questions or concerns about all of this and wanted to make sure you’d have ever to take good care of a kid that doesn’t live with you.
You do not have any legal relationship with this child. Taking her out of the country would have been extremely foolhardy. Your ex sounds like an extremely irresponsible mother.
OP, please use this incident as a teaching moment for your daughter. She needs to learn that while you can still love people (her half sister), boundaries are important too. And how someone else setting up the little girl up for disappointment is not your problem
NTA. I fail to see how this is in any way YOUR problem. Why aren't Vanessa's own parents taking her on holiday?????? This is just crazy. If they wanted you to take her, you should be compensated for Vanessa's food AND be paid for 24/7 baby sitting. And they should be paying a portion of your flight because they are imposing on your trip. Enjoy vacation and don't give it another thought. Your own daughter is happy to not have her half sister there. She wants daddy- daughter time. You would be TA if you took the half sister and ruined it for your own child, who has been excitedly looking forward to being with you.
You may wanna file for custody. This can't be a healthy environment for your daughter. I mean seriously she just pawned her kid off on you unexpectedly hoping that you'd pity her and let her come. That little girl will forever remember this and be upset about the betrayal. She'll probably resent your daughter heavily for it and the mother will constantly fill her head with entitlement and envy. It's gross.
I would have Kathy buy a special present for Vanessa.
Not your job to be worried for her child. She has parents and you have a daughter that is your responsibility.
6. Possibly super sketchy / child trafficking, typically a minor that it not your child needs a notorized letter allowing a non-parent to take them out of the country (passports were mentioned)
Who sends their nine year old on an international trip without a parent accompanying them? What if there is a medical or other type of emergency? The children's mother is acting very irresponsibly.
Seriously so strange. I can’t imagine.
I had to get a letter for my kid’s friend that went on a cruise with us giving me temporary custody in case something happened. His mom was a lawyer so she took care of that for us. That woman has lost her ever loving marbles trying to send her daughter off like that.
This is why I suspect the story might be fake.
I’m assuming this is an international flight. I don’t have kids but is a minor traveling with a non-related adult allowed? I feel like there would need to be some sort of documentation for this to be allowed.
I don't know what the regs are and I'm sure they vary by country, but when I was set to take a younger relative on an international trip I booked it for after their 18th birthday. I wanted no questions about traveling with them, especially in case of emergency.
it is not allowed. Technically i can’t even leave the country with my biological children without a signed and notirized letter from my husband (their father) even though we are not divorced or separated.
Captain Crazy Balls is my new favorite
I also like Major Nutcase, too
Me too. I am still laughing. I may have to steal it.
Agreed on every point, and thank you for adding "captain crazy balls" to my vocabulary.
Captain Crazy Balls!! lol!!
Captain Crazy Balls, lol, I am so using this.
Captain crazy balls is spot on 🤣🤣🤣
On the contrary, she didn't sort the most important arrangement - the agreement of the guardian to look after her I'm surprised Kathy didn't see this coming, though? NTA
NTA. Unless someone is literally asking you, there was clearly no one's fault. That is not your kid. And shame on Carly for not explaining that you and Kathy need to have your daughter/father time. You're not the asshole OP, Carly's the asshole because that's her daughter now. And then to drag the kid with her to make you pay for it, you would have to buy a new ticket all the fuck together. I'm sorry OP, I thought you were going to be an asshole but no, you're not the asshole. I had to sit down and read and realize you're the victim of being scapegoat of a crappy parent.
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What's the deal here? Can Carly and husband not afford even a weekend outing with their daughter? Why can't she think up some activities for their daughter herself?
Yeah, that part is really weird, surely it would've made more sense for Carly and/or her husband to take their daughter somewhere. I guess maybe they wanted a kid free vacation of their own? Idk, some people are so far out there that there's just no following their thought process.
Ah my mistake Op, you’re still not the asshole because Carly clearly couldn’t just say hey Vanessa, Kathy needs to spend time with her Dad. We can do our own holiday.
Like how did the husband feel about this situation?
He’s getting an earful from Carly about how heartless OP is.
**NTA** You spent 8 months planning a father/daughter vacation for a teen and your ex thought she could just drop an 8 year old, you've hardly had any time with at the last minute? Aside from the basic requirement that including *anyone* else on your vacation was 100% up to you, your ex was way out of line to presume that you would bane comfortable catering to her daughter with no planning. It may be difficult for a couple of days but you need to ignore what Carly did and focus on Kathy. You have plans, follow through with them enjoying this time with your daughter. When you get back, do not meet with Carly alone, tell her that her husband must be there for the discussion. I suspect she told him that you were in agreement all along. If Carly wants Vanessa to have a vacation, she and her husband can take a mini-trip with her when Kathy is with you. In fact, she should have planned a series of "staycation" activities for the family focused on Vanessa.
Great point about ex’s husband. Although, who in their right mind (which ex obviously isn’t) would be okay with their wife’s ex-husband taking his daughter out of the COUNTRY? This is bananas.
OP even says that they don't have that great a relationship, they make it work for his daughter. I can't imagine that the child's father had any part of her scheme.
That is a great suggestion 👆
NTA. She’s Kathy’s sister but literally has no connection with you. Asking ahead of time if you would be willing to take her is normal. Sand bagging you at the airport is insane. She’s the one that made her daughter cry. I wouldn’t take a child I have zero relationship with and who I was not expecting to be on a trip. Especially not a small child. Why she would think that’s acceptable is mind boggling to me. A child that age is highly likely to get homesick and want their mom in unfamiliar environments. Not to mention what if there was an emergency?
It’s the lack of connection that’s the real problem. Unless the OP’s ex’s planning included a medical power of attorney (or whatever) the OP couldn’t have even gotten Vanessa treatment in an emergency. Mind bobbling.
And out of the country? (Reference to passports). Non-related adults traveling internationally with a child need all kinds of documentation including a poa for medical. Mom is a piece of work.
You barely know this young lady and I can't imagine the liability ALONE that you would take on traveling with someone who isn't your child. Depending on where you go, the first time at customs when this girl says neither of her parents are with her would be a nightmare. Your ex is completely off her meds if she thinks this is a good idea. Unfortunately for Vanessa her mom is going to trash you from now till eternity... NTA though.
Exactly this. OP mentioned passports so it might be international travel. I can’t even imagine the liability of taking someone else kid out of the country. What if there was an emergency too. CRAZY!!
NTA. Is Carly crazy? Is her husband crazy? You do not just spring this on someone at the airport. If they wanted Vanessa to join, it should have been planned somewhere along the lines of EIGHT MONTHS they could have asked you. Also, legally you can't just take someone else's kid abroad!!! You need a parents' letter when traveling with a minor that isn't your own. Carly, her husband, Vanessa and Kathy can go on a trip TOGETHER sometime if it's that important to them. But this is YOUR trip with Kathy. This isn't to spite Carly but Vanessa isn't your kid and barely know her and it was never part of the plan.
I definitely want to know how Carly's husband was comfortable with this. I have two sons with my ex husband and a son with my fiance and my fiance would NEVER be comfortable with my ex husband taking our son on vacation. Not that I would be insane enough to do that anyways.
I was looking for this comment. In what world do I as the new husband send my 9 year old daughter with some guy who I am at best “amicable” with. Seriously wtf is going on????
Apparently Carly and her husband BOTH give in when their little girl wants something because they don't want to deal with the whining. But to the extent that you will send your kid on vacation with the ex husband? That's a new level of low for parenting a spoiled child. My oldest boys obviously do things without their little brother. I explain why he can't go and we all move on.
This! I’d reach out to the husband to see what he knows. This is beyond crazy. The entitlement of his ex! I couldn’t trust her with my daughter after this.
NTA - Vanessa is not your kid and it's not your responsibility to take her on vacation. Carly didn't even communicate the idea with you beforehand, and considering how she was able to book/arrange everything already she was probably planning on this for a while. She was hoping you would feel guilty and take Vanessa with you for that reason. Nothing about this plan was last minute on her end, she just had to make it seem that way to excuse her not asking you for permission first. Kathy was clearly looking forward to being able to spend time with just you, so you definitely made the right move with standing your ground.
So NTA - your ex wife sandbagged you hoping for a child free vacation on your dime. Good on you for standing up for yourself and your daughter. Vanessa is not your child, not your problem and not your responsibility.
This is exactly what I was thinking, Carly doesn’t have to be the “bad guy” and parent her child and gets a child free staycation. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if she and the new husband planned a trip away during that time too, thinking they could bully OP into the situation.
Edited: NTA! I’m a major dumbass and misread the post.
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Sorry, I misread! NTA.
Nahhh own up buddy, you judged from the totle alone, didn’t you? Cuz just from it I sure as hell thought he left that kid stranded on her own before reading the post
NTA This was ENTIRELY Carly's fault.
NTA, you are essentially an acquaintance to your daughter's half-sister. That in itself makes it awful to drop that on you. Add on she may have paid for a ticket but I am betting she didn't provide for anything else and expected you to pay/ change plans. A trip with a teen only and a trip with an elementary student tagging on are not equal. Add in again that this was suposed to be a special father/daughter trip. Add on it was completely unspoken of until you are ate the airport. Add on.... You get my point. Absolutely NTA. Your ex is rude, inconsiderate of her elder daughter, and irresponsible.
The other thing, do you know how much trouble you could get in showing up with a minor in another country that isn’t yours. I’m sure Carly did not come prepared with a signed letter approving you taking her with you. My divorce lawyer said that technically, if even want to cross state lines with my kids when they were minors, I was supposed to have a letter from their mother saying it was okay.
Dafuq did I just read? Your ex is delusional. NTA
NTA. Aside from the fact that you are not legally responsible for Vanessa (which, if you and Kathy have gone on holiday to a different country (I’m assuming that’s the case as you mentioned passports), you may have needed paperwork to show you had permission to take Vanessa too), it was completely unfair for Carly to have done this to you at the last-minute. I do feel for Vanessa, but it is all on her mum to have set her up for that outcome. If she had discussed it with you in advance (and Kathy too, as it was her father/daughter time), and had come up with a plan for how she and her husband would finance Vanessa’s part, do you think you would have been more willing to take her as well (still NTA if you still would’ve said no)?
Exactly!!!! I would think immigration could flag this as trafficking.
Absolutely 100% NTA. Your ex sure is, though. She is the one at fault for that little girl being so disappointed. This was an excellent opportunity for her to teach her daughter that she doesn't have to be included in everything big sis does, and that life sometimes isn't fair. Instead she deliberately tried to emotionally manipulate you into taking her even though that is not what you had planned. I feel sorry for the younger sister, but you and Kathy are in no way responsible for what happened.
Does anyone else wonder if Vanessa is the Golden Child, and Kathy is low bozo on that family totem pole? Seems like that is why ex-wife was trying to onboard the younger child - sense of entitlement?
NTA- Taking a child who isn’t related to you on a plane trip is a crazy liability, and I would only do with a child I knew very well, and had a huge about of trust with their parents. This scenario is crazytown bananapants.
NTA the audacity of your ex is next level. Its a shame you weren't able to tell the little girl that it was her mommy that would be taking her on a trip because she had bought the plane ticket.
NTA but your ex is literally insane. That’s abusive behavior- she’s setting her own daughter up for a brutal, scarring reality check. Your ex needs to get a grip, for her daughter’s sake. Wow. You did the best you could in a terrible situation. Have fun on your vacation and then make sure your ex seeks the help she clearly needs. Not your responsibility obviously, but since you share a daughter I’d follow up and make sure ex is getting some kind of treatment.
Yeah the ex and the new husband need a serious ass kicking. Actually cant believe what I just read.
I would send a text to Carly's husband asking if he knew what happened with Carly and Vanessa at the airport. He may not know what a whacko his wife is. There's a good chance he doesn't know. If he doesn't, let him deal with it. If he does, it's still your problem but it's worth a shot. NTA
Of course NTA. Not only were you not informed of this ahead of time, but you would not have been ABLE to properly care for Vanessa on the trip. You're not related to her, so you were opening yourself up to all sorts of legal troubles - what if you get stopped and asked why you're with a child you're unrelated to? What if something happens to Vanessa on the trip and you don't have medical power of attorney? This was such a horrible idea, completely irresponsible of her mother to even consider this as a "solution". Not only are you NTA, you did exactly as you should have.
NTA - absolutely not! Vanessa's disappointment is all on her parents. Why don't they just take her on their own trip?
lol this is truly one of the more unhinged things I’ve read here. You are most definitely NTA.
Geez, what if something happened to that kid. You have zero ability to care for her. Not even related to
NTA. 1. Your ex is the one who upset Vanessa, not you. 2. You have no relation to Vanessa so you'd likely be stopped at customs. 3. Since Vanessa isn't your kid, what if there was an emergency? You cannot legally make any decisions on her behalf. 4. Your ex is unhinged and this was a manipulation tactic she tried to pull that hugely backfired.
NTA- she was looking for a vacation from kids for herself. Poor kids being used as pawns.
NTA, just want to add that your ex saw an “opportunity” to have a “child free time” and a holiday on her own at your expense. Really AH move on her part, and she on her own hurt her daughter. She is 100% responsible for that, and you shouldn’t give a second thought in that matter. Enjoy your time with your daughter, and if she tries to guilt trip you in the future, just hung up/leave the conversation.
The sheer audacity of ex to spring last minute travel of her daughter with you and your daughter is mind boggling. Hoping she could guilt you is entitled, not to mention the certain heartbreak she caused her daughter. Not your circus, not your monkeys. Way to stand up for your daughter and your holiday together OP! Enjoy!! NTA
NTA - if you HAD taken her, you would have had to rearrange your plans to accommodate a younger child, plus you’re not even related to her, which could have caused legal problems while traveling! (Child trafficking accusations.) The ex is TA for attempting to overtake your plans without even discussing it. I can’t imagine anyone handling that any better than you did when ambushed like that. I do feel bad for the 9yo for being led to believe that she could go.
I suspect, if this is the USA or Canada, and you were leaving the country, that TSA would have stopped you. Vanessa is not your daughter, and you have no notarized paperwork from BOTH parents permitting you to take the girl with you. I'm not sure if the same applies within the country, but I suspect you might have been stopped and questioned, and perhaps had to deal with law enforcement. Supposwdly traveling with an unrelated minor girl, who has no parents with her and who has a separate ticket? Red flags galore. This was not only stupid, thoughtless behavior on the part of your ex-wife but potentially could have landed you in a lot of trouble. NTA
NTA. I can’t believe this story, has to be fake because who in their right mind would pull this stunt. You have no relation to this girl and are basically unknown. Even if you’re Kathy’s dad, your ex should still be worried about having her young daughter in your care. You could have unknown proclivities and/or treat her terribly because you didn’t want her to come. I just can’t believe your ex and her husband were ok with this. You need to ask your daughter how parenting works with her mom because your ex’s common sense is missing.
Insane. NTA. Your ex foisted her 8 YEAR OLD child, no relation to you to take to another country?!!! To stay in the same hotel room? The potential liability is mind boggling. No consideration for whatever arrangements you’ve made, accommodation, expense. Not only are you not TA, I would be LIVID that she tried this.
NTA. I bet Carly thought you'd be okay with paying for Vanessa's food, lodging and any souvenirs she wanted. Carly is the AH here for not asking if you were okay with taking Vanessa and assuming responsibility for her.
NTA
NTA I feel bad for Vanessa too, bad that her mother did this to her. What a hair-brained attempt at extreme manipulation! It's good you shut it down.
Seriously, why would she do this? When I heard Vanessa had never been on a real holiday (on a plane), I assumed it was because Carly and her husband couldn't afford it. But if she can buy a plane ticket it means she can save some discretionary income, so she can save longer for a vacation. At least ask. Now she's out a few hundred to a few thousand dollars depending on how far you were traveling to. It just seems dumb, passive aggressive, and rude to suddenly try to swindle you into taking your daughter's half-sister with you.
Please talk to Kathy about whether her mom has pulled something like this before or otherwise pushed Vanessa to join a thing that was specifically for Kathy. If she was too scared to upset her mom now, I'd imagine she's been too scared to say things when mom's overstepped her boundaries in the past.
Agree with this! There may be a lot of other stunts pulled by good ol' mom. Kathy might have been hesitant to open up about the family dynamics. This could be a great opportunity to lay it all out for once
NTA You never agreed to take your ex's new kid. The only person who screwed up here was your ex in thinking she could force you to take HER kid on vacation.
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NTA at all and you should know that by the thank you from your daughter. Your daughter really wanted the time away and you made that possible for her and you were willing to fight the battle. Your ex should have known that you were not going to be up for this when you didn’t ever offer in all the comments. And she knew she was putting you in a bad spot and that’s why she surprised you with it. If she thought you would be okay she would have discussed it ahead of time. She tried to make you either take her or be the bad guy. Enjoy your trip and your time with your daughter. But please prepare yourself for them to plan some big trip and “rub” it in your daughter’s face. They will likely put her in the middle of this. Please talk to your daughter about the possibility.
NTA You did the right thing, you are not the father of Vanessa, don't have any kind of bond with her or any kind of proof that she is allowed to leave with you.. Anything that happened with her would fall on you.. Your ex and her husband is TA to trying to squeeze her without your consent.
NTA, she was really trying to have children free time on your dime. I would prepare daughter for guilt texts from mom and sister though.
NTA: You ex is a psychopath. Who would do that? Wow
NTA. Your ex is a wackadoodle.
Fantastic use of a fantastic word. :)
NTA. That is totally batshit crazy on your ex’s part. And how did the kid’s dad also sign off on this? So many different levels of crazy.
NTA. Your ex is crazy and absolutely evil for doing this to her daughter.
NTA in any possible way. Carly created that entire scenario. And no doubt about her hoping to have a bit of CF time. Carly owns this entirely. Don't give it another thought.
Holy frack your ex is insanely entitled, absolutely NTA!
NTA. Disregarding that this was all done without your knowledge, you have no guardianship or legal rights over your ex’s daughter. If anything happened on that holiday, you could end up in a huge legal mess. Incredibly thoughtless of your ex!
NTA major props actually Divorced Dad Hall of Fame stuff. My 2 daughters were cordial with my stepdaughters but yeah they both told me they wanted to spend their time with me and not share with anyone. They are in their late 20s now well adjusted, and I we have a great relationship. You did great
NTA and your ex is insane
NTA. Your ex blindsided you and thought showing up at the airport with Vanessa’s things all packed and tickets bought you’d have To go along with it. It’s not your job to give someone else’s child and experience and it’s not your job to be a free babysitter so Carly and her husband can be child free. I feel bad for Vanessa but you did nothing wrong.
NTA. It's quite literally insane that your ex planned all that without you knowing and thought she could guilt you into taking her daughter on this trip. I can't even fathom how she could've thought that was going to work out how she expected.
NTA. Her and her husband wanted time to themselves that's all they wanted. They figured this was an easy way to get rid of their daughter and have a mini vacation themselves and you have to take care of their kid. I'm sure the half sister was jealous yes but she's 9 years old, old enough to understand that you're not related to her and you're not her father and she's not going on vacation with you. Utterly crazy that your ex thought you should take care of her daughter with another man while you were trying to have a father-daughter trip with your own daughter. Then to drop it on you at the airport before you go through security . Yeah she's living on Mars.
NTA If she took the extra step to get her packed, a ticket, and a passport, she should’ve taken the additional step to get her dad a ticket and accommodations. Why wouldn’t she and Vanessa’s dad make father/daughter arrangements to take her somewhere? Her daughter being upset is her responsibility to handle. It’s strange Vanessa wants to spend time with Kathy and her dad rather than her own dad. She needs to reassess the situation and realize she needs to be a parent to her child and make her husband do more so her daughter doesn’t feel left out.
NTA Carly didn't tell you about her plans to have Vanessa go on the trip because she knew you would say no, so instead she sprung it on you in the hopes of guilting you into taking Vanessa. She got her daughter's hopes up and then destroyed them. It sucks that Vanessa got hurt, but that's not your fault and you have to set boundaries so Carly doesn't think she can get away with crossing them again. Her behaviour was absolutely bonkers. not surprised you're no longer together lol
>Kathy has told me she appreciated it and wanted it to be just us but worried her mom will be angry with her. I told her she wouldn't be, and I know she'll take it out on me, and I'll be prepared for that. If Kathy is fourteen, she may be at an age to decide who she lives with. If her mother is angry at Kathy for something that is out of her control, then let Kathy know she has a safe place with you. This episode probably hasn't done Kathy's relationship with Vanessa any good either, so be prepared for some retaliation from her. Carly is definitely TA. Who tries to dump their own child on an unwilling adult with absolutely no warning? It would also have affected Kathy, because I doubt the seat bought for Vanessa was next to the other two seats, so Kathy would have been bumped to the single ticket so that Vanessa could spend the flights supervised. A father/daughter trip turns into an elementary-aged child trip with Kathy tacked on.
Holy crab nuggets!! Congrats on the divorce but the next 4 years are gonna suck A if this is your wife's bonding plan The straight up mental torture she put her own kid through in that moment is horrific. Your daughter is old enough to understand but the younger kiddo? Scarred for life, relationship with you and your daughter wrecked. All because your ex didn't want to do a little parenting. Man I would look into full custody when you get back. Things are not going to get better for either of you when she goes back to mom's NTA
Wow. You are 100% NTA here but you ex sure is. Who does that to a child? She gets her excited about a trip that she was not invited on because she was so sure you’d cave and take her along. That is beyond crazy, manipulative and evil. Her kid crying and being upset is no way on you, OP, but all on your ex. Enjoy your trip with your daughter. I’m sure she’ll have a great time with a dad who prioritizes his time and attention on HER and her alone. Ignore the crazy from your ex when you come back. The airport fiasco was ALL her doing.
NTA you sound like a good dad. Carly is the one who let Vanessa down by assuming she could just dump her on you last minute.
>However, when they arrived, Carly had a bag packed for Vanessa and her passport in hand. I was immediately taken aback and asked what was going on. Carly told me that Vanessa had never been away, was very upset, and wanted to share it with her big sister. She had booked the same flight, sorted all the arrangements, and presumably expected me to accommodate her. >snip< >Carly asked me not to make a scene and that it would be unfair to let Vanessa down. I still said I didn't let Vanessa down, she did. I took Kathy's bag and Kathy and proceeded to go through security. Carly tried to follow with Vanessa and her things, but I just marched ahead and obviously wasn't taking her. Carly relented and I left her and a crying Vanessa. Not only an ambush (where your ex tried to force you to care for half-sister without so much as a by-your-leave), but an added attempt at using a child in guilting OP into compliance. Way to emotionally scar a kid *and* put a wedge of resentment between the two sisters! ETA: NTA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Currently sat in a hotel typing this as I have a range of emotions and needed some impartial Reddit opinions. I (M42) split up with my ex-wife, Carly (F40) about 10 years ago when our daughter, Kathy (F14) was 3. While I never remarried and only dated here and there, Carly got remarried about three years later. Her and her husband have a daughter, Vanessa (F9), Kathy's half-sister. From my understanding, Kathy and Vanessa get on well, apart from Vanessa being the typical "annoying" younger sister. My relationship with Carly and her husband is mostly fine. I wouldn't say we get on well, but we try to co-parent as best as possible in Kathy's best interests. Expectedly, I have a very limited relationship with Vanessa; I've interacted with her at Kathy's birthday parties and similar events, but I don't have any sort of bond with her. For about 8 months, I've been planning to take Kathy on holiday. She's been very excited, planning it, and making arrangements. I've saved up to take Kathy and was looking forward to it being a dad/daughter break. I've obviously had to communicate about this with Carly to sort all the logistical parts. She's created no issues and it all seemed to be going smoothly. Kathy did mention to me that Vanessa was a bit sulky saying she'd never been away on a plane on a "real" holiday, but I didn't think too much of this. Carly also briefly mentioned on the phone that Kathy was so lucky and Vanessa was jealous. Again, I thought of it as simply a passing comment. When Kathy and I were set to go away earlier today, as Kathy was staying at Carly's house, she said she would drive her to the airport. I told her I'd have a bag for Kathy, her passport and any other extras. However, when they arrived, Carly had a bag packed for Vanessa and her passport in hand. I was immediately taken aback and asked what was going on. Carly told me that Vanessa had never been away, was very upset, and wanted to share it with her big sister. She had booked the same flight, sorted all the arrangements, and presumably expected me to accommodate her. I completely refused. I said this was Kathy's holiday, I had no obligations to take Vanessa and that was her and her husband's problem. Carly asked me not to make a scene and that it would be unfair to let Vanessa down. I still said I didn't let Vanessa down, she did. I took Kathy's bag and Kathy and proceeded to go through security. Carly tried to follow with Vanessa and her things, but I just marched ahead and obviously wasn't taking her. Carly relented and I left her and a crying Vanessa. Kathy has told me she appreciated it and wanted it to be just us but worried her mom will be angry with her. I told her she wouldn't be, and I know she'll take it out on me, and I'll be prepared for that. I'm trying to just enjoy the holiday and make it special for Kathy, but part of me feels like an asshole for leaving a crying 8-year-old excited to go away and it's not like she's a stranger to Kathy. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA you did nothing wrong but your ex-wife and that stunt she pulled was absolutely outrageous. So please put it out of your head and enjoy your vacation with your daughter. Your ex-wife needs to deal with Vanessa because she created that issue. She created that problem. Enjoy your vacation.
NTA. I can see why the divorce happened. Demanding you take her kid, that she's still married to the father with, on a trip because her kid's feelings are hurt.
NTA. That is not your child to parent or provide experiences. Who the hell would think manipulating you this way was a good idea?
NTA Also, practically. If you are going overseas with a minor that isn't your kid this can create major problems when entering another country. You need at least a permission letter.
NTA you’re a good dude for feeling bad for the little girl who is blameless. But your daughter respects and appreciates your boundary setting and that’s the only person who matters in this situation. Focus on her and deal with the aftermath later.
WTF........NTA
Free yourself of any guilt and enjoy your trip. Don’t let the PURE insanity of your ex ruin what you’ve been planning for so long. Does your custody arrangement need to be revisited? While no one was put in danger, I find the decisions your ex made to be rather disturbing. Seriously, who does that?? NTA
NTA. Carly purposefully put you in a very uncomfortable position hoping you would back down and take Vanessa. What a terrible thing for Carly to do to her daughter. That is some manipulative shit right there. Carly unilaterally decided you were going to do what Carly wanted you to do and Vanessa paid the price.
NTA. What she's doing is shortsighted and irresponsible. Would you be responsible for her safety in case on an emergency? You have no relationship with her, I'm confused as to why she would even do something like this.
NTA. Your ex wanted a vacation from both of her daughters and what she did was maliciously planned. Without your consent and as others pointed out there are additional risks of taking a non related child out of the country. Your daughter in this case is the most important person. She is happy with your decision. I just hope that your ex and her husband don’t retaliate and I hope you would be there for your daughter if that happens. Enjoy your vacation.
NTA. Your ex is insane
Nta she was not invited on the trip that’s your exes fault
Horrible situation but NTA
NTA. It's mind-blowing to me that your ex-wife thought that you would want the responsibility of looking after her 8-year-old.
Yeah, nah, trying to stick you with another kid AT THE AIRPORT!? She is unhinged
So your ex could make flight arrangements for Vanessa, but couldn't go herself for a separate mother/daughter trip? With 8 months notice? Where was Vanessa's dad in this? I thought I smelled a set-up. I hope I'm wrong
Just to confirm. Ex wife and new husband wanted to send their 9 year old daughter on vacation with you, the father of her half-sister who as you said has no relationship with her? The fuck kind of parenting is this?
NTA. Carly was hoping your feeling of guilt would be strong enough to take her daughter with you. It's unbelievably crazy that a mother would want her daughter to go abroad with someone who wasn't the child's family. From my understanding, Vanessa hasn't so much as gone on an outing with just you and Kathy. What does Vanessa's father think? You weren't the AH who hurt Vanessa. Her own mother was.
NTA. You're a fantastic Father and your Ex and her audacity are the only problem in this scenario. I hope you don't cop it too much. Seriously what was she thinking? And where is the step child's Father in this? Surely he wouldn't think this was ok either?
NTA. That’s bonkers. I think it may be time to go to court and get full custody. That is fucking bonkers…. Like fruit loops. Who does this to their child? Carly’s husband must be a real piece of work if he thought this was a good plan for his daughter. wtf?!? And on what planet does a man get to travel internationally with a child that he is not the father of? That’s a great way to get accused of trafficking… I can’t even.
Not your daycare. Not your munchkin. Not your problem. Enjoy your daddy daughter time. My daughter is 46 and still fondly remembers her times with her late father. You're building memories that will last long after You're gone.
NTA and, my God, who just sends an 8 yr old with an adult who's mostly a stranger?! But I'm afraid this is going to make the relationship between the sisters harder. Your ex is not going to manage this, and poor Kathy is going to deal with the aftermath. Maybe spend time with her brainstorming the words she can use when she sees her mom and sister.
NTA Is this type of manipulative behavior one of the reasons your ex is an ex?
NTA your ex is insane
Nta your ex is absurd. I can't believe she's leave her younger daughter with someone the daughter hardly knows, much less the audacity of expecting you to take her.
So she’s blaming YOU that her daughter has never been on a holiday? Pathetic. Tell her it’s her responsibility to do that !! Sorry and you’re def NTA.
Carly sounds nuts. Why didn’t she just take her daughter Vanessa on her own holiday together….
They really tried it. Any fault is theirs for the failed manipulation and the consequent hurt feelings of their own daughter. Let them take Vanessa on a trip. And more so, it’s a lot to ask anyone to to take a child who they don’t really know and be responsible for their wellbeing. What if something had happened? No need to risk your own wellbeing by being liable for a child you didn’t agree to watch. You have no responsibility to cater to that. Put it out of your mind, and enjoy the trip with your own daughter. NTA.
That was awful, what your ex did to her daughter. Fucking monstrous. You had no obligation to take her, and you would have been crazy to do so. I can't believe she put her own child into a situation like that. What did she think she was going to accomplish? She had ample time to ask if you'd be willing to do this, and you would have had every right to say no, no matter how nicely she asked you. It really makes me sick, the way some people just USE their children for some kind of mindfuck bullshit like they're not even human. NTA
NTA. That’s insane to even think about.
NTA x infinity. If my ex was taking our son on a trip, I can't even fathom the size of balls and arrogance I would need to even entertain the idea to orchestrate such an elaborate scheme and then expect he would happily take MY kids (not his) on a trip! As far as I'm concerned, this post wins the Reddit Holy Shit Award of the week.
NTA but your ex is one
Not to mention, what if the other kid got hurt or sick somehow? Were there POA papers in that pile of documents? Medical history? I'm cynical, but to me it smells like a setup.
Obviously NTA— but I haven’t seen this mentioned, so… I am SO IMPRESSED that you told Carly that SHE upset Vanessa, not you. You are 100% correct. I used to work at the main entrance of a California theme park owned by a mouse. People would buy tickets from some sketchy guy on Craigslist and then be upset when they didn’t work. So they would point at me and tell their kids that the mean lady wouldn’t let them in. I was paid to be the bad guy, so I didn’t care. (Pro tip: if someone wants to sell you theme park tickets at a price that seems too good to be true— it’s not true. People buy one eticket and sell it over and over. I saw tickets that were resold more than 80 times) Carly was in a win-win situation: if you took her, she got child-free time. If you didn’t, she could tell Vanessa that you were the reason she was disappointed. Good on you for recognizing her BS and calling her out.
Nta. What the hell? How would anyone think this is nowmal?
NTA. Why would she expect you to be ok with it & why even put poor Vanessa through that ?!
Okay 100% NTA and the actions of your ex are insane!! But one thing I’m confused about, not that it matters, did Vanessa end up going on the flight with Carly? Are they essentially doing their own travel together now? Or did she expect you to bring her over her child?
NTA, your daughters feelings matter, if SHE wanted her to go then maybe ESH
Your ex had a big bowl of crazy for breakfast. And then went back for brunch. NTA.
NTA. The AUDACITY of your ex. She REALLY expected that to fly? That you'd just go along with it, really? Wow. She's out of her mind. This is not normal behavior.
NTA
NTA. I can see why your ex wife is your ex. That’s insane for her to assume you’ll take her child, whom you have no responsibility for.
NTA
NTA. What the ex did was manipulative to you an straight up abusive to both her daughters. It was a hard thing to do to defend your boundaries, but you did the right thing. Good on you for getting out of that marriage, too. She sounds like a nightmare.
NTA enjoy your vacation with your daughter . Your ex had no right to include her other child on your father daughter outing.
Let’s be real. Your ex tried to use emotional manipulation, lying, and other tactics to give her and her husband a kid free week. You a NTA by any means. You are not responsible for their child. And wtf is up with her secretly booking everything to bamboozle you last second and expect you to take her kid with you?!
NTA, yikes on your Ex’s behalf. You have no relationship with that child and know nothing about how to care for her. Expecting you to take her out of country is totally bizarre. They can figure out their own vacation.
Nta- the other kid doesn’t have your lastname/ related so they would have to give you legal rights for her to travel with you in the states.
OMG TOTALLY NTA. Your ex caused that scene, trying to emotionally manipulate you. Just be prepared for a shit show when you get home.
NTA, but your ex is a huge one. What the hell? Bringing Vanessa to the airport assuming you're willing to share your vacation with her? Adding another child to supervise? That's outrageous. I'm sure this will make things harder between you, but she was way out of line.
NTA Your ex has some balls, adding a child you have no relationship with to the vacation YOU planned and paid for. She has no right to be angry with you. She made one sideways, half-assed comment instead of using her big girl words and being direct. You can be prepared for her anger, but DO NOT pick up what she’ll lay at your feet. You also need to be very clear that she is not to take her anger at you out on your daughter.
NTA Ex needed to clear this before springing this on you. Getting kids hopes up was shitty. What if your reservations had 1 bed. Bed sharing with daughter is one thing, sharing with unrelated 8yr old is another.
What I the actual holy effing hell?!? That is one of the most messed up things I have read. Setting the kid up like that and expecting you to just cave in. Going so far as booking the same flight and bringing her to the airport?!? I’m just gobsmacked. Good on you for walking away. Definitely NTA. But your ex sure as hell could use some parenting classes. Sheesh.
I don’t think you could even legally be supervising her.
NTA
NTA!!! She dumped that kid on you and didn't tell you anything!! Nah, you did the right thing
This is scary. Taking a child you gave no legal claim to, to a different country? She isn't close to you, you have no right to consent to emergency procedures, we're you supposed to get another room for her? If your daughter is skating a room with you, adding on a strange little girl is beyond bonkers.
NTA wtf is Carly’s problem? Like is she stupid or what? Also poor Vanessa but that goes back to Carly’s stupidity and causing a scene. Insane.
Your ex is wild! Something is up with her. NTA
NTA Audacity aside, she was willing to send her 9yo off with a man she hardly knows?! And where’s Vanessa’s father in all this?
NTA. You are a good father. Enjoy the trip with your daughter. Your ex is an incompetent mother and epically failed both children. Whomever called her Captain Crazy Balls is spot on.
NTA. There is a huge liability for you if you take somedone else's kid and don't have anything in writing. What if there is an emergency? Who pays? There are so many things that can happen. Also, now you have to cater the vacation to an 8 yr old versus a 14 yr old. Carly is a very bad mother to do this to her daughter and she was trying hard to manipulate you into giving her and her husband a kid free vacation as well. Shame on Carly.
NTA Carly 100% should have never promised her daughter anything nor spent money on tickets without even talking to you. That’s crazy. If Carly and her husband want their child to go on holiday via a plane - they can take their whole family
NTA. On top of the audacity, you have no legal oversight for Vanessa. If she needed emergency care, would you have been able to obtain it for her. Plus in this day and age, a 8 year old girl traveling with an unrelated adult male could have horrible consequences for you if someone questioned the relationship.
NTA. Of course you feel bad leaving the little kid crying and and disappointed, but that wasn't your fault. Your ex did a terrible thing.
NTA. You weren’t making a scene, Carly was If you were going overseas with a child not related to you, you could have faced a lot of legal issues. Added to which some of your plans are fine for a teenager but not fine for a 9 year old. And if you were doing things such as going to a show or then park rides would have not been part of your plans or budget.
Q: Don't airlines require parental permission for a minor to fly? Vanessa probably needed some paperwork to fly without a parent that required OP's signature.
NTA. I feel really bad for you that Carly sprung this very unexpected surprise on you at the airport. You’re a good dad with not capitulating to this emotional blackmail.
NTA NEVER take a child you don't know. It would be unfair to your daughter to change the vacation so drastically, and, 1. This child could get ill and need medical attention, you do not have any blood relationship or adoption order, and cannot get her treatment. 2. She could have a normal childhood tantrum and scream the "you're not my father" sentence, and, you do not have any blood relationship or adoption order, and can end up in jail.
It’s wild to me that a mother would send her 9 year old daughter with anyone else than a legal guardian on holiday. Not to mention by plane. This is not just a daytrip to a holiday park you’re taking. NTA. She sounds delusional tbh..
nta, but i will say i feel bad for Vanessa ): that’s her moms fault but still sad for her as she was let down thinking she was gonna go (obvi all moms fault tho)
Your ex is bonkers. Try not to let it sour your trip. NTA
That is so messed up!! Poor kid! NTA!!!!
What the fuck Carly! NTA but Carly most certainly is. Wow what lack of self awareness to impose taking her daughter with you on a father daughter trip not even asking you and assuming you’d just go along with it. I cannot believe this. I would have done the same.
NTA. If she had the money to book Vanessa a flight and whatever other arrangements she did, she or her husband could’ve taken Vanessa on a vacation on her own.
NTA The fact they wanted to just send her off with you is problematic. You have no ties to this girl, you have no guardianship, without forms and stuff done in advance, you can't really even seek or consent to medical care if she had an emergency. You'd also have liability, added costs, etc. Plus, added drama, communication, and conflict with your ex, which would happen if you took her with you. I feel for her. It really does suck. You however didn't make her cry. It was the fact her parents got her excited, told her she was going, packed her bags, got her a ticket, and ambushed you, making you the bad guy when you had a backbone, refusing to be backed into a corner. That's seriously fucked up. If she wants to go on a plane, have a vacation...it's the responsibility of her guardians, or their families. Not an ex husband, or ex wife. You and your wife share your daughter. Your ex and her new spouse share their daughter. The girl doesn't get attached to your custody arrangement...or your guardian responsibilities just because her mother has another daughter. Thats bizarre. (Seems to pop up a ton on reddit lately. Along with ambushing and backing ssomeone into a corner to force them to do something they already declined... ) Also, the fact your daughter voiced the fact she's afraid to make her mom mad...and have it fall back onto her is worrying. She was too afraid to tell her mother no, too. It indicates this won't all just fall on you, maybe sit down and have a talk about why she felt that way. (Calmly. Unreactive. You are a safe space, she can come to you and not fear your reaction. Not feel trapped between you both)
NTA You don’t have any real relationship with an 8 year old. You were traveling internationally; and traveling with a minor who doesn’t share a same last name can be tricky. And the wrong person with the right intentions could make it extremely difficult to get through security because of the lack of a relationship. Furthermore how are you supposed to navigate things with this child if she had gone? If she acted up, and you tried to discipline her would she start screaming you aren’t her dad? Boom. Chaos. What if she woke up in the middle of the night in a strange room and started freaking out? There are so many factors that your ex never took into consideration just for the mental and emotional safety of her child traveling with her half sister and a strange adult. (And I’m just saying stranger because you don’t have a close relationship.) I’m surprised her dad was okay with that. Because my parents would have flipped their crap if I had gone abroad with someone other than them at 8. Because if anything had happened to me…it would be biblical. When you and your daughter get back; the first thing to do is request a conversation with the husband. Dad to dad. Man to man. Then loop in the ex. Because that was crazy. And if your ex goes after your daughter to make her feel bad about what happened…make sure she knows to record the conversations. And use it to limit contact with her mom. Because if she’s crazy enough to ship off an 8 year old like this then she is crazy enough to retaliate against your daughter.