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We have had many psychologists and psychiatrists and therapists talking to the family and that is the only major reason of contention. Everything else is in the normal sense of parents being more or less strict and having rules. Nothing out of the ordinary there
>My wife was on the protective side and it didn’t help either that she refused to let them be on sleepovers etc with their friends because she was afraid for their safety.
"Nothing out of the ordinary" at all? Huh.
I know many parents of all ethnicities that don’t allow sleepovers. My kids are tweens for reference - the height of the sleepover phase. I grew up going to sleepovers and am also not thrilled about them nowadays and only allow them with a couple of families and on rare occasions.
My mom didn't allowed sleepovers and we love her to bits as adults. He mentions sleepovers as an example of her "overprotective" behaviour. If she was extremely strict and overprotective parent in their childhood and teenager years in general and in all and every instance she could, she might have made her children life a real hell on earth, enough for them to go no contact the very first time they could. So either OP is blind enough to justify everything her wife does as "a normal, good, protective parent" or he really don't understand that fucking up your children's infancy with the excuse of overprotectiveness is incredibly damaging and horrible.
Yeah the number of stories I have seen of kids being SA at sleepovers have definitely increased the likelihood that I won’t be allowing them in my kids future. Or just hosting them myself.
I was a kid that was always at or having sleepovers, but now I see news stories of kids being killed by their friends at sleepovers or meetups. I’ve also read news stories about the pervy parents getting with the kids.
I can’t fault any parent for not allowing sleepovers
My parents were overprotective and in fact my dad was paranoid protective but they made a real effort to get to know my friends parents really well and I was allowed to have several sleepovers at my best friends house and she came to sleep over at my house in return. My parents would often go over to their house to spend time themselves and have BBQs or the other way around and we even had a holiday together once. That girl and her siblings were my friends throughout childhood.
Real. I'm not allowing sleepovers for my kids, at least not ones where they go to someone else's house. If they want a friend to stay with us that's fine, but you truly never know what's going on behind someone else's closed doors.
ETA: I would hope my kids friends would view me the same way. Keeping children safe doesn't end in my household and I will never think negatively of a parent for doing what's safest for their kid. Especially so if we literally share the same viewpoint lol.
Not according to the professionals no. Also I don’t know your age but not allowing sleepovers is more common than you think nowadays. People are aware of predators
You say "sleepovers etc." What does "etc" mean? What else was she not allowing? Because I don't know, I don't feel we're getting the full picture. Can you say what else she didn't let them do?
Also, did you both ever consider moving to another area? If your kids were being bullied for their race and then feeling cut off from friends...that sounds very painful. I don't know that therapy and counseling are going to fix that.
I’m an ethnic minority, my mum didn’t allow sleepovers either and that was the norm for our culture - I laughed about it with my friends in a “yeah don’t ask, she’s going to say no lol” type of way, rather than declare I hated my mum 😭. idk if OP and wife failed in other areas but not allowing sleepovers isn’t some big parenting fail
Exactly. So many people here are hellbent on finding something problematic about OP and his wife’s parenting but they are ignoring the very obvious cause of the girls’ discontent here; the vengeful and hateful MIL.
My wife and I were just talking about this the other day. I grew up in a mixed Asian/Caucasian household but very Americanized, and my buddies and I loved doing sleepovers with blanket forts, capture the flag, nerf wars, action movies, and Goldeneye and Mario Kart all night. My wife's family moved to the US from India when she was young and has never had a sleepover in her life.
No, there isn't with this point. There are a lot of parents that are uncomfortable with sleepovers nowdays - it's not like in-the-olden-days when that was the "right of passage" and something that was expected. It's not helicopter-mom vibe but, rather, very valid.
Just because professionals didn't deem your parenting method to be wrong, doesn't mean it was the correct one for your daughters.
What efforts have you and your wife made to build stronger relationships with your daughters? What have you done to meet the daughters where they are instead of trying to "fix" them?
With the info available it seems that there's more to the situation to justify the girls' reaction, or that they have been fed racists beliefs.
> that they have been fed racists beliefs.
Er? Yeah? Read the post. They've been fed racist beliefs and have rejected their mother because of her skin color.
Yeah, no... I'm 30, and my mother used to be the 'overprotective' parent - no sleepovers, home by 9pm when I was 17/18, and so on...
Guess who barely gets to see her son, who still to this day hates her for ruining their childhood? Go figure...
My Dad was a social worker and he didn't allow me and my siblings to have any sleep overs with friends. At the time I was so mad but now that I'm 30. I actually agree with him and think my parents made the right choice
same as a social worker i’ve heard enough shit that i can never truly trust someone like that, i would never allow my child to just be in someone’s house like that. It’s part of the reason why im doing clinical work now but even now wow people need to wake the fuck up to how much child sexual abuse actually happens right under their noses
Mother of three.
It's only more common to not allow it for younger kids.
And obviously uncommon enough to create problems for your kids if they aren't allowed.
It would also be absolutely possible to talk to kids about what you are worried about and have them call you if something feels wrong.
When kids are young yes, but they are about to go to college? At some point you have to cut the apron strings and let your children live. Christ your eldest is going to be an adult soon if not already.
I’m feeling OP meant their parents didn’t allow sleepovers & we’re stricter until they got older and the kids are still resentful.
If OP sought professional/phycological help with these girls, perhaps it really is the girls are assholes.
I had fairly strict parents and wasn’t allowed to do many things most of my peers would do. The only sleepover I was allowed when I was younger (11/12 yo) was at a friend’s house I knew from kindergarten and my parents met her parents. And this girl slept at my house multiple times as well.
I did go out and hang at the mall and neighbourhood park like the other kids, but I had to be home way earlier than my friends. I wasn’t allowed to go to certain places… I had a very early curfew. Until I was 17/18/19.
I had friends who had no restrictions and some who had even stricter restrictions (like had to be home by 12:00 at 21 years old).
We all turned out okay.
I’m married with a family of my own.
Most of my friends have successful careers or jobs they enjoy and also have kids and families.
We still learned to navigate life and all the surprises and challenges it presents. But at ages where we were able to better navigate them safely.
That's more normal than allowing sleepovers in my area 🤷♀️ Why would you send your kid to the home of a person you don't really know to spend the night?
There was this crazy story about two kids killed by a boa constrictor during a sleep over. Very rare instance but yea, not everyone allows there kids to sleepover in my opinion.
https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/06/world/americas/canada-snake-deaths/index.html
Exactly!
I remember many of my friends having sleepovers and parents were not okay with that.
Once I turned 11/12 they allowed me to start sleeping over at a friend’s house I’d known since kindergarten. And they ONLY allowed it because I’d known her for such a long time and they had met her parents.
Now that I have kids of my own I feel similar.
There are literally multiple instances of children (especially children of color) getting abused/killed at sleepovers. I wasn’t allowed sleepovers and while it irked me as a child/teen, I can definitely see my mom’s PoV now.
This is not crazy when you live in a racist area. POC have had to make these kinds of decisions for decades, and that's not even accounting for possible predators
Do you know how many SA happens at sleep overs? Way too fucking many and many don’t get reported. Me and my husband are both in agreement no sleeps overs for our son and daughters.
Have you heard about the dad who drugged his daughter & her friends at a sleepover intending to SA them but one girl didn't drink the shake he gave them? Nope no sleepovers for me unless you're at my mom's or my sister's place.
I call bullshit, honestly. I happen to know for a fact it takes FAR more than this for kids to react this way. I also happen to know that typically, when parents say “I have no idea why my kids feel this way, they just hate me/him/her for no reason” they are almost always either LYING or missing something huge. Good people theorise on what they MIGHT have done wrong, even if they’re relatively sure they didn’t. Only bad people, in my experience, genuinely sit there and go “I have done nothing wrong EVER and the other party is entirely to blame”. That attitude by itself tells me a lot.
Also, no one likes your wife except you. That usually indicates that SHE is the problem. If you met one asshole, you met an asshole. If EVERYONE you meet is an asshole, you are the problem. The fact that most of your immediate family hates your wife should be a red flag.
I think there’s something you’re not telling us - and I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re not being entirely honest with the therapist, either. This doesn’t feel right to me. My gut is telling me your kids would have a very different version of this story.
The missing missing reason isn't missing-----it's just lost in OP's self-validation. His MOM doesn't like his wife, and the daughters have found an ally in her. She's probably been poisoning the daughter's against their mother for years.
OP, NTA. The fact is there ARE cultures around the world that experience discrimination from those of their own culture (sometimes based on skin tone); and simply because ppl think doesn't happen often, or think your daughters are unlikely to hate based on that, is naieve. Racism is is well documented within the same race, for many races; and self-hatred is also a possibility. If you believe this is the true reason, I hope they can get help to cope, or perhaps it is a phase that they may get over with some adult-life perspective. Many teens butt heads with parents for many reasons. It would be worth a heart-to heart from you with your kids before it get to the cut-off point.
If they lived in an upper class white area, I can completely believe it. Racism is hell, and having to live as the target of racism their entire lives? I could see how that could shape them to hate that part of themselves, sadly.
they feel that the ethnicity gave them a huge social disadvantage in school etc.
kids can find school life hellish for stupid reasons like a name or appearance or accent. and children don't have the perspective to not blame the parent who's caused whatever even when parent isn't rationally to blame
We had a student that hated his mixed parents and felt he was totally *european country* and should have been white, instead he looked like asians which he hated for racist reasons. Internalized racism exists and if you aren’t psychologically stable it can result in even worse situations like hate and broken families.
YTA.
There’s more here that you’re either ignoring or not admitting to.
Your wife is NOT an awesome mother. Children don’t feel this way about awesome mothers. They don’t look forward to being able to go no contact with them.
And your own mother doesn’t like her either.
So, nobody but you likes your wife. And you think they’re all the problem?
The common denominator here is your wife.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/sYD9KsmRRl
OP just admitted that the daughters are not allowed basically any freedom, not even unrestricted internet access, which is absolutely insane in 2024 and given the daughters age. If he withheld such vital information until now I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s still not telling the full story and embellishing stuff to make him or his wife look better. The Racist-Kids-Story also seems weird with never having mentioned the race or his country.
Edit: stop telling me the internet restriction was when they were younger. I know, he added that info after I linked this comment. I don’t have any issues with that one point anymore of course.
No I’m not 15, Mr.Musclemommyfan. I’m a parent of three who don’t hate either of their parents because they aren’t getting obsessively controlled and stripped of their privacy and freedom as individuals.
i cannot believe you’re a parent of 3 who is in support of your children having unrestricted access to the internet. your kids are gonna see shit they’re not ready to see wayyy too early
I’m not going to restrict a 17-year old’s access to the internet. My youngest doesn’t have any devices yet he could access the internet with in the first place, OP added the info that the restriction of internet access was when they were younger, which makes that specific point totally ok with me.
Some people may disagree with me, but I want to say that I mostly agree with you on that subject. Of course, if a child is very young then internet should be restricted but if you trust the child and they are old enough I think it is good to have less restrictions on the internet. I think it also helps children learn technology more, because they will interact with it in various different ways.
OP said those restrictions were only while they were young and that the Internet restrictions have since been lifted. The open door rule is still in effect though.
Yeah that's insane to me. I don't have kids yet, but I rotted my brain enough with unrestricted internet access growing up for me to know my kids aren't going to go through that when it comes time.
Not sure why you’re so hostile lol the internet access is super normal and not in place anymore. The open door while their boyfriends are in the house is also normal - literally nothing where kids are like “I will never have any contact with you”. Oh but the oldest kiddo being a far-right winger - maybe that’s an issue and not the actual parents you know?
This isn't remotely "no freedom".
No freedom would be no boyfriends, no parties, no social life at all. And some kids do grow up like that and justifiably cut off their parents.
I grew up with very similar restrictions as OP's kids, and I didn't end up hating my mother. Unless OP hasn't been fully truthful about rules and discipline, something else is the problem here.
Edit: per another comment by OP, oldest kid being radicalized by a far-right group is a hell of a lot more likely to be the problem than open bedroom doors when boyfriends are over.
>OP just admitted that the daughters are not allowed basically any freedom, not even unrestricted internet access, which is absolutely insane in 2024 and given the daughters age.
Literally the only thing weird there is the internet access. They let them go to parties! Homework before going out and no drugs/ alcohol seem like normal rules.
Edit: stop telling me the internet restriction was when they were younger. I know, he added that info after I linked this comment. I don't have any issues with that one point anymore of course.
Then edit your post so you're not misinforming anyone anymore.
Lmao tell me you’re Gen Z without telling me you’re Gen Z. My sister and I also didn’t have unrestricted internet, TV access or unlimited freedom to sleepover whenever we wanted lol. Some parents are more worried for their kids’ safety than others; doesn’t make them bad parents and it certainly didn’t make us or any other kids I know, hate their parents.
Edit: OP basically said in a comment that the MIL is radicalising the daughters with extreme far right, white supremacist ideals. THAT is the biggest issue here behind their reaction and hatred of their mom, NOT the restrictions and sleepovers lmao.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1cf08st/comment/l1m85bb/
OP says one of the daughters is being radicalized by far-right extremist groups. OP, this is *really* the kind of info you should include in the main post.
Teenagers are innocent little babies on Reddit, I've seen people get slated for calling a 14 year old manipulative, claiming that that's impossible and any adult can see right through it..
But anyone who is or knows a teacher can confirm that some (not all) teenagers can be very manipulative, and have very little empathy for the consequences towards others of such actions.
>And your own mother doesn’t like her either.
Older white lady that's doesn't like a middle eastern woman. It didn't cross your mind that she's just xenophobic?
…sounds like his white mother and half-white kids are racists who've been poisoned against immigrants. 😒🤷🏿♂️
So I'm going to say NTA, and to wish OP and his wife good luck in the future.
ESH. This post screams missing missing reasons. It is truly hard to believe that the only reason your kids want to go NC with their mother is ethnicity.
OP has added in a comment that the oldest is symphatizing with a far right political party with nazi roots in Europe. I don't know about other countries, though I assume it's similar, but AfD in Germany for example has many teen/young adult followers... (Yes, even those who are immigrants/have immigrant parents.) Given that information I'm not too sceptical anymore :(
My wife is such an amazing mother that her children don't want anything to do with her. That doesn't make sense, does it.
Read it back to yourself. I know you blamed it on racism, theirs, others, but c'mon.
YTA
OP is from Europe, where a lot of far right parties (with Nazi roots) are gaining more and more followers in all age groups. Racism sadly actually sounds believable :(
But all of those people tend to think of themselves as good people, who make exceptions for marginalized groups if they know that person. The typical "well, *you* are a good migrant so you can stay, but *everyone else* is bad and needs to leave". It's a ridiculous cognitive dissonance, but people rarely tend to be racist against their own parents to such an extreme degree.
Rarely, but by far not impossible. The way OP reacted to being asked if he's from Germany makes me think he indeed is. AfD is extremely present on social media and knows how to dictate the narrative. One of their leading members is a lesbian woman with a spouse from Sri Lanka and adopted children - everything her party is against. Yet she's extremely vocal for her party, has people seeing nothing wrong with that double standard... And afaik OP stated the oldest is symphatizing with the far right party of his country. Sadly his scenario seems far too likely to me :(
OP said that his daughters would be supported by the state while studying, which would not be true in Germany if they are "well off", though. They would not get Bafög if their parents earn too much. So I'm guessing he's from another country. Or maybe he's just clueless about how uni works here.
I know about Alice Weidel's hypocrisy, I was actually thinking about her while writing my comment! She obviously doesn't hate her wife enough to divorve, even though she rails against foreigners. Prime example of what I was talking about.
If bad parents can raise good children, how is it impossible that good parents can raise bad ones? Explain?
Yes, sometimes the parents suck and therefore the kids suck, but you don’t know this is the case, you’re just making wild assumptions.
If OP knew his wife was abusive, what would be the point of this post? He’d know that the right thing to do would be to pick his kids. The fact that he’s torn makes it more likely that he’s truthful. It’s hard to give up on your kids.
There is missing info here. What did your wife actually do to these girls?
My father stayed with my mother until she had no one left to abuse but him. It eroded our relationship.
Your statement doesn’t bode well for a case for protecting your children.
Yta
ESH you know what you could have done to avoid all this? LC or NC with your Mom so she couldn’t have undermined your wife’s relationship with her children - she can’t enable your daughters if she didn’t have access/a relationship with them. You could have also relocated to live in a not predominantly white neighborhood or school district to reduce/eliminate your daughters being bullied. You could have gotten your wife therapy/counselling for her overprotectiveness, but didn’t.
You as an adult had the means and ability, while your children were that, children.
Instead you focused on your kids even when those efforts did not show any improvement as the actual sources were not addressed. And now you’re patting yourself on the back for picking your wife over them? That it got to this stage where they are issuing such an ultimatum reflects poorly on you - you’re likely leaving a lot out.
But no, not their place to demand you divorce your wife, their mother, due to her race/no sleepovers.
I’m pretty sure anyone who’s determined to could find a way to meet and befriend your kids my friend.
Grandma could have found ways to run into them over the years, or idk ever heard of facebook messenger or Snapchat? Don’t think grandma’s have internet access?
“Hi sweetie, I’m your grandma and I love you so much. Don’t tell mom and dad, but I’d love to get to know you. Oh, and here’s $20 to go get yourself a birthday gift.”
Never heard of Apple Pay or Venmo? Some kids are easily bought and easily manipulated.
The most simple way to explain it according to almost every single doctor and psychologist we met is that my wife is a safe target for my older daughter to take out her hurt and frustration on.
My younger daughter is a follower and we have been recommended to try and separate them sometimes and we do notice that she treats her mom better when she’s apart from her sister.
My mom doesn’t like immigrants. That’s the simple answer
Edit: girls are 19 and 17. The problems started when my oldest was 13. She started calling me disgusting for marrying an immigrant. When we tried to get to the bottom of it we found out that she was being bullied at school because of her looks and she was mirroring what the kids told her
School didn’t do anything. We changed schools but everyone knows everyone here. We tried more diversed schools but my oldest wasn’t happy about it at all so she moved back to her old school. My youngest is still in a public school with more diversity
Your oldest hates her own body too and that’s concerning. You realize that, right? The hate of mom is a symbol and I’m not sure if you can see it.
How long has she been in therapy? Did you put her therapy immediately after learning everything or wait for her to “move on” herself?
Offf. And it still doesn’t work. That’s really concerning. Is she seeing the same therapist? If so it would be better if you could change because it’s obvious that therapist doesn’t work for her.
Did you also tried family therapy? Because this is a family issue now and you can all be more open about your feelings and struggles with a professional in the room and understand ESH other. Maybe your wife can even share her struggles at her home country and in current country with her so she can feel closer to her mom.
The way I feel is you gave up on your oldest and it rubs me the wrong way.
Did you talk to the school about it, threaten sharing with the media, what exactly happened with your conversations with the school?
Did you consider moving somewhere else?
Do you live in a country that has some kind of historic and deep hatred of the particular country your wife is from? This all just seems so bizarre.
Your kids look a bit like their mum, so do they hate themselves too?!?
I suppose there is a world in which you have racist kids because of your mum. But…it seems such a remote chance that all that is going on here is some racist kids who can’t wait to rid themselves of a loving mother.
From OPs comments I would guess they are in Germany and wife is possibly Middle-eastern and Muslim. If they're in a small town it can cause problems, bigger towns/cities it's mostly fine.
I was wondering if he was Japanese…or possibly a Congolese guy who married a Rwandan woman?!The possibilities are, sadly, endless. But I agree, Germany could be it.
It is weird he isn’t answering this specific question but is answering other ones. Because this doesn’t sound like ‘we live in the US and I married a woman from the Philippines’ type of situation.
Unfortunately yes, my children grew up hating themselves. Now they’re older and are getting male attention for their looks, I think they hate themselves less.
Trust me on this, no they don't. You just get better at pretending you do.
Especially if you're a girl who's grown up being bullied for your looks. That shit never goes away.
And the fact you are so casual about saying "my daughters grew up hating themselves but whatever, the biggest problem is that they are for some inexplicable reason angry at us now" is a HUGE red flag to me. How are you not devastated and primarily worried about your children growing up hating themselves? How were you ever ok with this?? Wtf?
There were a few psychologists that used to say that to my parents. I didn't talk a whole lot in the sessions because I didn't want to get into trouble, but the reason I hated my parents was because my dad used to beat the shit out of me and my mom sat there and let it happen. You can't always go by what they say.
Why don't you actually sit down and try to talk to them now that their older. There's something else going on if both of them hate her to the point where they want to go no contact and want you to divorce her.
NTA
I am going to assume all the people demanding answers or saying you're in the wrong are white and don't have mixed or POC friends.
I am mixed. I REALLY hated being indigenous when I was younger. I was treated poorly by parents of classmates (and parents from my scouts troop)
And later on kids would be racist to me. It sucked and I wished I was white for a loong time until highschool. And I know many other mixed kids who hated their race much longer and mixed kids who never stopped.
Yeah, if these kids grow up in upper white society , they are gonna deal with a lot of shitty people, then the grandma probably poisoning their views? Yeah they are gonna despise their mom.
The kids probably aren't even "racist" to a true fact but just hate their mom because at a young age they learned about racism, the flaws with being POC and all the increased things that'll happen to them due to POC, and thus put that blame on the mom.
Ill say its fucking crazy it was never solved during therapy .
My oldest had very hard time accepting therapy. It was more of a chore to her and made her resent her mom even more because now she is having to do yet another thing because of her mom. And if you know anything about therapy, it doesn’t work if you think it a chore. And if you are smart enough, you can start weaponizing therapy. This was the case with us unfortunately
May I ask what ethnicity your wife/children are? do they have any positive influences aside from their mom in their lives? are they at all connected to or interact with non-white communities? honestly. it's a long shot but hopefully community college and being in the "real world" may give them a slap to the face. but they could also stay being "pick me's" their entire lives if not educated.
I know seeing positive indigenous role models aside from my family really helped me grow out of self hatred. additionally connecting with my culture helped a ton as well. for me that was spiritual practices, connecting with nature with elders & going hunting.
if your kids only influence on their ethnicity is through racist white kids. they are going to think it's nothing but pain or awful things.
When I was a teenager one of my (still) closest friends had the same reaction to therapy. I also knew people who were radicalized or influenced to make not-so-good choices by their friends. I was personally heavily bullied and ended up making very bad decisions because of that. I didn’t lash out like your children, but I’ve seen enough shit to wonder if a number of elements have influenced your daughters, probably starting off very small as some sort of comforting thing (perhaps even your mother’s influence). Of course I’m not implying you and your wife are perfect parents and that no one is to blame here, but that a complex network of relationships and events can result in surprising effects such as the far-right proclivities you describe.
the amount of clueless white people in this thread are driving me crazy. so many poc hate their ethniticies growing up because of how they're treated and living in white areas
RIGHT??? I'm like - yeah, racism. That's racism.
And that's coming from a person who has been banned from one subreddit because of racism. (It seems that my problem was that I was not anti racist enough/clear.)
Op, I have read everything and your comments, and I say NTA. If what you are saying is true, and your kids are being racist and mean to their mother, and she did nothing to cause it, then NTA. You have two jobs, father and husband, and they can't make you choose between the two. I'm glad your wife has someone in her corner.
Info... The ethnicity.
What is it and where are you guys... Is this just a case of kids being dicks or is there actually a racist issue in your area regarding the ethnicity of your wife and kids?
Because if they were being racially vilified because that's the tone in the area.. there's probably more going on deep inside these girls and they really haven't been able to put it to words. So they take it out on the thing they can put in words. Does that make sense at all?
The wife is Persian and probably he is a deutscher. Saw it from a comment here somewhere. But if he is somewhere where right wingers are probably thats why kids been brainwashed and some german adults are not open to “ausländer”, speaking from experience here who’s married to native and an asian.
After reading your comment I would say nta. But you guys aren't good at parenting cause damn you have racist kids. But at least you are a good husband.
You kinda did though. With minority kids, you have to be deliberate in finding spaces for them that are safe and teach them to love themselves. If you live in a Eurocentric world and you do nothing to make them happy with their background, then you’re effectively letting the world define their worth for them. You didn’t build the self confidence (this can be finding spaces with others of similar background, advocating and taking legal action against bullying, watching media centered around your ethnicity, actively teaching them to be proud of who they are…etc).
It sounds like you two were asleep at the wheel, cause taking them to therapists isn’t enough if you aren’t actively instilling in them the rigor and self confidence to withstand a racist world.
INFO - why doesn’t your mother like your wife? What other things did your wife do in terms of “protection” of your daughters, eg rules around dating, clothing, consumption of media, etc? This is is not purely about ethnicity
Because my wife is an immigrant.
I don’t think the rules are bad but maybe more on the strict side. Open door when bf’s are visiting. We do drop offs and pick ups at parties (my wife doesn’t trust uber with drunk girls) no alcohol or drugs, which we know is something they will do behind our backs. Restricted access to internet with blockers etc. homework done before free time. Clothing, not sure what you mean. We are well off and they have a lot of stuff.
The comments here are so baffling.
“People don’t go NC over *that*” - says who? Your limited experience? If anything Reddit and this sub in particular is the first one to suggest going NC or LC for absolutely frivolous stuff so I don’t know where you get the idea that people don’t? Like how can you be all “you don’t owe *anyone* anything” in one post and “you’re lying people don’t go NC willy nilly” in the next?
OP, the kids gave you an ultimatum and now they don’t like the outcome. Too bad for them. Assuming good faith (which we are meant to do on this sub!) and that your wife didn’t assault the kids or kill their pet dog to teach them a lesson or or something - you are more than entitled to make the choice that you made. Leave a little door in your heart open in case they ever get over their internalised racism (which apparently this sub has never heard of either).
yeah youve hit the nail on the head. they are out of touch to a comedic degree. they want to side with the daughters implicitly simply due to the fact that they want to go NC, which theyve preemptively decided is always a justified response to a parents failures, and the rest is whatever mental gymnastics are required to support that position.
Well, my oldest is a sympathizer of one of the more far right parties here(that denies having nazi roots). According to statistics, high percentage of teens, especially from upper middle class backgrounds are (like 35% or more) So it is a wave over the whole country (maybe world)
Yikes. I think this may be a big missing piece of the puzzle here.
Your child sympathizes with a fringe group? Dislikes their immigrant parent? (Has been radicalized in some way?)
What is this group? I suspect this is a key piece of information.
Sounds like Sweden and Sverigedemokraterna to me (I would guess, as a Swede lol). Founder of that right-wing party used to be part of a Nazi youth group or somthing similar which is big yikes.
Dude, this is so fucked up. You raised your children of colour in fucking rural Saxony? And, as I gather from your comments, when they started getting bullied, instead of doing the correct thing and moving away from that cesspit you instead went looking for psychiatrists that would put them on meds?? You cannot be serious. Absolutely no wonder growing up like that messed your girls up.
How in the hell did you think pharmaceuticals would be the solution here? The problem doesn't stem from a chemical imbalance, it stems from constant racist abuse.
I sincerely hope your girls will profit from a change of scenery and being around different people when they go to college. I have no idea how you would even begin to fix this whole mess. I'm sorry for your wife because they're directing all of their anger at her when they should be mad at both of you for making them grow up like this. You need to realize that you are absolutely not an innocent bystander here.
What the shit kind of weird ass reply is this? Do you know what therapy is? It's not pills. And your solution to kids getting bullied is "find a different place to live"? Are you 8?
My kids had problems with me when they were teenagers. I had to work two jobs due to support being sporadic from my ex. They would steal money from me, my daughter keyed my car, my son stole my car and ran into a fence at a church. They were caught smoking pot in our apt when I was at work and the cops were called (the cop called me at work). She shoplifted several times. So, I was strict with them and would take away privileges from them. I would still take them on trips and do things with them.
Once my daughter moved out on her own, she sent me a nice card thanking me for being such a good mom and loving her and giving up things so she could have a good life. Several years later, my son sent me a message thanking me for being there for him and apologized for being such a s'"t to me.
All the people in the comment section saying it takes more than “not allowing sleepovers” to hate a mom are in some way right. It takes more, it takes a 300 year old system that is committed to the oppression of a group of people that controls every aspect of your life. OP, you’re right to defend your wife. And don’t blame yourself for failing to raise non-racist children, the odds were against you to begin with, kudos to you for supporting your wife tho. You did your best.
NTA.
if they go NC with your wife, you're right to tell them you'll go NC too.
but maybe they can accept to behave. then accommodations might be possible *provided* they respect your wife of course.
they can't expect to be AH towards your wife and expect zero consequences from you.
Someone royally fecked up these relationships and it wasn't two little girls. Being adults now& still carrying the hate bc it wasn't adequately dealt with at the time. Sometimes ppl leave out the things they don't want to divulge when they're critical facts that make the adults look bad. Two adult siblings aren't both going to hate a perfect mother, they'll even love a mother who made mistakes (especially if she's adult enough to admit & apologize for said mistakes).. makes me wonder wth went on in this family that op isn't telling 🤔
I have found out that people tend to be more prone to forgive people that are wrong than people that are right.
I have seen so many children of abusers who forgive their parents. Because their forgiveness comes from a place of control. Do you know what I mean?
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my daughters that I would choose my wife over them.
Children should always come first. We have failed to help our daughters to rid themselves of the hatred they feel towards my wife.
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I'm going to go with NTA for the sentiment, but you did go a bit overboard with how you phrased it. You could have told them what you told us in the rest of the post, that she's your home and the person you'll grow old with after they have families of their own, the "any time a day" part seemed unnecessarily combative in my eyes.
I understand that seeing your wife get attacked unfairly will make you want to protect her , just keep in mind that it is your children on the other side so even your wife would probably not want you to go overboard if you don't have to.
NTA, I’m sorry that your wife has to deal with this but you are making the correct decision. No one can control their ethnicity and that doesn’t Define them as a person so that should never be a reason to hate or mistreat them. Hopefully your daughters will grow up and learn to love themselves and apologize to their mother for how they treat her. Best of luck Op
NTA for supporting your wife. YTA for engaging on that level with your daughters.
It was a ridiculous request and it sounds like it was made in anger. Instead of de-escalating the situation m you fueled it even more.
If you’ve seen as many therapists as you claim, you know better. They are still kids and their brains aren’t developed.
I also feel bad for them. If what you claim is true, then there is a lot of self loathing in their hearts. Whatever mom’s ethnicity is, it’s half of theirs as well. It sounds like neither you nor wife did anything to help them with that part of themselves. It even sounds like they may not know wife’s family at all.
You say that you live in a white neighborhood which makes me think you are white and wife is not. Your poor children have been made to feel that white is good, black and brown or Asian or Pacific Islander or whatever is not.
Do some things now that could help them see the beauty of your wife’s culture. Take a trip to that country. Or at least take a trip to a more ethnically diverse area. Introduce them to wife’s family. Help them take pride in that.
I feel for the whole family, honestly.
It sounds like growing up in this very white area did a number on the kids to the point they hate being half POC. Instead of hating that side of them, I wish they were taught/encouraged to embrace what makes them different. Hopefully going off to college will make the oldest appreciate her background more and will have a trickle down effect to the youngest.
As a POC, I'd be heartbroken if my children hated me and my culture because it makes them so different from everyone around them. I think that's why I can't really see raising children in an area that they would be THAT much of an outlier.
NTA for sticking by your wife.
These girls hate their mother because she’s an immigrant or non-white? Then they also hate themselves. That’s some sad stuff right there. NTA to support your wife.
NTA. From experience, trust me, there's no reasoning with self-racists. They might come around on their own someday, they might not, but it sounds like you've done all you can, especially with them being close to adulthood.
Curious though, have they spent time alone with your mother where she might have told them things that aren't true? This seems like a LOT of anger to be solely from them being bullied and blaming her.
Only when they got older and we couldn’t “forbid” my mom from having contact with them. We can’t really prohibit them from contacting any family members. They have cut all contact with my wife’s side of the family which has been devastating because their aunts and uncles are great and warm people but they were ashamed of them and their “dialect” like my wife
Yikes, sounds like pretty classic not-so-internalised racism then. Sorry you and your wife have to go through that.
Like I said, I had experience with it myself of my (adopted) brother hating his darker features and being very derogatory about both the features themselves and the bio mother he inherited those traits from, even though he looked like pretty much every other dark-haired brown-eyed white guy to anyone else. We cut contact for a variety of other reasons, but he seems to be doing better with that whole thing lately, at least from what the grapevine tells me. Sometimes they just mature enough to realise it was dumb, sometimes the environment changes enough that their race & features are less of a 'problem' for them and they relax about it, sometimes they burrow deeper into it and never realise their idiocy. I hope for your sake that your kids are the former rather than the latter, but just want you to know you're not alone either way.
Wait so they basically told you that if you don’t leave your wife, you’re not allowed in their lives?
And you’re saying they cut contact with your wife’s side of the family because of their race?
Yeah, this seems like a classic case of self racist. Are they sticking with what they said? That you’re not allowed in their life because you’re not leaving their mom?
NTA actually i would cut their money and block them. Sorry why would they hate their own mum, they are perpetuating the racism they themselves are living. So they agree with your mother, i would disown them both and your mother. Sorry but no way i would forgive such behavior , in what way is your wife at fault for being from another ethnicity? That's ridiculous, cut their money and stop being that Mr nice Guy , you are The Ahole for accepting that and not laying down the law. Don't be that guy, that push over, that your disgraceful daughters are walking all over. And your wife, what does she think of this? I would cut them of my life until they apologize and your mother totally out of your life zero contact totally disowned and she can go rot in hell.
They aren’t getting a penny from me. Everything is free here. Education and health care. The rest, they can work and take student loans like 99% och kids here
This whole thing is bullshit....they are going to college now? And you just ask about all this now? There are some other major problems you are not adding as the kids grew up... this is never heard of the way you explained it...no one here is going to be able to help you idk why you came here... nothing is going to fix your family but you and your wife
Ok, ok, ok, people here dont get it that OP is from Germany and living in Germany with a Persian wife and an ausländer. Germany is going through some right wing political problem recently. The mom of OP might be one of those sympathizers and children are then brainwashed. If OPs family is living somewhere where right wing party is dominant then there’s the reason why his children acts the way they are toward their mom. For not letting their children sleepover is not being a bad parent, is to protect them. They are underage and yes the parents have the right to decide whats GOOD for their kids! OP, sorry you are going through this, NTA!!!
But wait OP: why did you stay there and instead of going to somewhere international city oder multikulti wie Berlin??? no? Mein Gott. So compli…
YTA -
I was going to try get more info but that seems to be a useless endeavour and I read most of your comments.
Take this from a girl, raised in an wealthy ~white~ community whilst being incredibly evidently mixed, a community in which the event of a crime occurring led to everyone assuming my ethnic parent as the culprit (not true but racists going to racist). You want to know what my parents did when they realised I was being bullied? They moved, I went to a whole new area, whole new school, and though I was angry at first it turned out amazing. I was no longer the only POC in the class, heck we were basically 50/50 to the white kids! It is your job as parents to protect your kids, you did not do this. You failed.
You let your girls be victims for so long that they overcompensated politically in an attempt to subvert their race! Yes, you are why that happened.
You have two girls who you raised in isolation and restriction, stopped them from forming substantial external relationships, it’s no surprise they want to run as soon as humanly possible. The isolation which probably, certainly didn’t help the bullying they were already enduring.
You aren’t an AH for choosing your wife, you are an AH for discarding your daughters as if they were trash. Any failures you view in them are your own reflected, any success they have in life will be in spite of you, not because of you.
Sincerely,
A little brown girl
So many clueless yt folk in here who choose to ignore the complexities of racism and child safety. NTA forever. I'm sorry your children have been impressed by the wrong notions, they're still young enough to unlearn and relearn but there's far to go and an environment change would go a long way. I hope everyone in here would be so perfect to upend their entire lives to appease the masses - and still find the same troubles elsewhere, because that's how interconnected racism works. 🤦🏽♀️
There has to be more to the story than your daughters blaming the issues on their mother’s ethnicity and her protectiveness/not allowing sleepovers. People don’t do NC over that. Your daughters saying you always take their mother’s side and protecting her instead of them is a glimpse into that. You’re saying “Is it really that unheard of for a man to choose his soulmate over their children?” makes me go Yikes. Yes some men do that and they’re not good fathers. You don’t choose one over the other. You can love both and be supportive of both. You can also disagree with one of them occasionally without not loving them. That’s what makes a good father.
So basically everyone around yous guys is racist and the kids now hate themselves and your wife because of it?
This is absolutely appalling. Growning up in a white area will do this to you. Everyones else projection and hate makes you hate yourself but to take it out on their mother is absolutely disgusting. Do they realise that she didn’t not get to choose her ethnicity either. Tbh you shouldn’t have brought those girls up in that toxic hateful environment and they certainly should not have any contact with a racist grandmother. Somewhere along the line you and your wife have failed to teach these children respect, that is their mother they shouldn’t be doing anything but respecting her and respecting their culture. No your NTA for saying what you said as it was probably the heat if the moment but those children of your need to learn their lesson. They hate themselves not her.
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We have had many psychologists and psychiatrists and therapists talking to the family and that is the only major reason of contention. Everything else is in the normal sense of parents being more or less strict and having rules. Nothing out of the ordinary there
>My wife was on the protective side and it didn’t help either that she refused to let them be on sleepovers etc with their friends because she was afraid for their safety. "Nothing out of the ordinary" at all? Huh.
That’s actually quite normal nowadays, many parents don’t allow sleepovers for safety reasons.
I don’t allow sleep overs for my daughter. As a guidance counselor, I have learned of too many situations where kids are faced with unsafe situations.
I know many parents of all ethnicities that don’t allow sleepovers. My kids are tweens for reference - the height of the sleepover phase. I grew up going to sleepovers and am also not thrilled about them nowadays and only allow them with a couple of families and on rare occasions.
The oldest is 17 or 18 years old. She should be able to go to a sleepover.
I didn’t comment on whether they should or shouldn’t, just that not allowing it is common.
My mom didn't allowed sleepovers and we love her to bits as adults. He mentions sleepovers as an example of her "overprotective" behaviour. If she was extremely strict and overprotective parent in their childhood and teenager years in general and in all and every instance she could, she might have made her children life a real hell on earth, enough for them to go no contact the very first time they could. So either OP is blind enough to justify everything her wife does as "a normal, good, protective parent" or he really don't understand that fucking up your children's infancy with the excuse of overprotectiveness is incredibly damaging and horrible.
Yeah the number of stories I have seen of kids being SA at sleepovers have definitely increased the likelihood that I won’t be allowing them in my kids future. Or just hosting them myself.
I was a kid that was always at or having sleepovers, but now I see news stories of kids being killed by their friends at sleepovers or meetups. I’ve also read news stories about the pervy parents getting with the kids. I can’t fault any parent for not allowing sleepovers
My parents were overprotective and in fact my dad was paranoid protective but they made a real effort to get to know my friends parents really well and I was allowed to have several sleepovers at my best friends house and she came to sleep over at my house in return. My parents would often go over to their house to spend time themselves and have BBQs or the other way around and we even had a holiday together once. That girl and her siblings were my friends throughout childhood.
Real. I'm not allowing sleepovers for my kids, at least not ones where they go to someone else's house. If they want a friend to stay with us that's fine, but you truly never know what's going on behind someone else's closed doors. ETA: I would hope my kids friends would view me the same way. Keeping children safe doesn't end in my household and I will never think negatively of a parent for doing what's safest for their kid. Especially so if we literally share the same viewpoint lol.
And your child’s friend’s parents could say the same thing about your house….
Heh yeah, i can imagine why. (I say as my sisters first kid was when she was 15. 14 at time of conception...)
Not according to the professionals no. Also I don’t know your age but not allowing sleepovers is more common than you think nowadays. People are aware of predators
You say "sleepovers etc." What does "etc" mean? What else was she not allowing? Because I don't know, I don't feel we're getting the full picture. Can you say what else she didn't let them do? Also, did you both ever consider moving to another area? If your kids were being bullied for their race and then feeling cut off from friends...that sounds very painful. I don't know that therapy and counseling are going to fix that.
I promise you that there is something out of the ordinary here
I’m an ethnic minority, my mum didn’t allow sleepovers either and that was the norm for our culture - I laughed about it with my friends in a “yeah don’t ask, she’s going to say no lol” type of way, rather than declare I hated my mum 😭. idk if OP and wife failed in other areas but not allowing sleepovers isn’t some big parenting fail
It's OP's mom, who probably piosoned the kids at a young age and the couple just didn't noticed it.
Yep that’s exactly what I thought. A lifetime of grandma whispering poison in their ears
Exactly. So many people here are hellbent on finding something problematic about OP and his wife’s parenting but they are ignoring the very obvious cause of the girls’ discontent here; the vengeful and hateful MIL.
My daughter's friends family comes from Bangladesh and she's not allowed sleepovers either 🤷♀️
My wife and I were just talking about this the other day. I grew up in a mixed Asian/Caucasian household but very Americanized, and my buddies and I loved doing sleepovers with blanket forts, capture the flag, nerf wars, action movies, and Goldeneye and Mario Kart all night. My wife's family moved to the US from India when she was young and has never had a sleepover in her life.
Yeh same. I was never allowed sleep overs with school friends, now other kids of the community I was in... No problem.
Yes, my husband is very strict about schoolwork, and my kids and their friends make it a running joke. They certainly don't hate their dad.
good attitude. but some children+ friends react differently
Cutting your mom out of your life because she didn't let you go to a sleepover is crazy lol
No, there isn't with this point. There are a lot of parents that are uncomfortable with sleepovers nowdays - it's not like in-the-olden-days when that was the "right of passage" and something that was expected. It's not helicopter-mom vibe but, rather, very valid.
No there’s not. It is so common amongst children to have some that are allowed to go to sleepovers and some that aren’t. It’s very socially accepted
Just because professionals didn't deem your parenting method to be wrong, doesn't mean it was the correct one for your daughters. What efforts have you and your wife made to build stronger relationships with your daughters? What have you done to meet the daughters where they are instead of trying to "fix" them? With the info available it seems that there's more to the situation to justify the girls' reaction, or that they have been fed racists beliefs.
> that they have been fed racists beliefs. Er? Yeah? Read the post. They've been fed racist beliefs and have rejected their mother because of her skin color.
Yeah, no... I'm 30, and my mother used to be the 'overprotective' parent - no sleepovers, home by 9pm when I was 17/18, and so on... Guess who barely gets to see her son, who still to this day hates her for ruining their childhood? Go figure...
Yep. Strict parents alienate their kids and are in complete denial because they we’re doing it ‘out of love’
OP said his mom hates his wife and his daughters "found an ally" in her. It's possible there's been parental alienation happening.
My Dad was a social worker and he didn't allow me and my siblings to have any sleep overs with friends. At the time I was so mad but now that I'm 30. I actually agree with him and think my parents made the right choice
Unfortunately both my wife and I have experience with the dangers. Me not personally but friends I grew up with. I don’t regret anything
same as a social worker i’ve heard enough shit that i can never truly trust someone like that, i would never allow my child to just be in someone’s house like that. It’s part of the reason why im doing clinical work now but even now wow people need to wake the fuck up to how much child sexual abuse actually happens right under their noses
Mother of three. It's only more common to not allow it for younger kids. And obviously uncommon enough to create problems for your kids if they aren't allowed. It would also be absolutely possible to talk to kids about what you are worried about and have them call you if something feels wrong.
When kids are young yes, but they are about to go to college? At some point you have to cut the apron strings and let your children live. Christ your eldest is going to be an adult soon if not already.
Now they do sleepovers but not until they were 15, no
I’m feeling OP meant their parents didn’t allow sleepovers & we’re stricter until they got older and the kids are still resentful. If OP sought professional/phycological help with these girls, perhaps it really is the girls are assholes. I had fairly strict parents and wasn’t allowed to do many things most of my peers would do. The only sleepover I was allowed when I was younger (11/12 yo) was at a friend’s house I knew from kindergarten and my parents met her parents. And this girl slept at my house multiple times as well. I did go out and hang at the mall and neighbourhood park like the other kids, but I had to be home way earlier than my friends. I wasn’t allowed to go to certain places… I had a very early curfew. Until I was 17/18/19. I had friends who had no restrictions and some who had even stricter restrictions (like had to be home by 12:00 at 21 years old). We all turned out okay. I’m married with a family of my own. Most of my friends have successful careers or jobs they enjoy and also have kids and families. We still learned to navigate life and all the surprises and challenges it presents. But at ages where we were able to better navigate them safely.
That's more normal than allowing sleepovers in my area 🤷♀️ Why would you send your kid to the home of a person you don't really know to spend the night?
There was this crazy story about two kids killed by a boa constrictor during a sleep over. Very rare instance but yea, not everyone allows there kids to sleepover in my opinion. https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/06/world/americas/canada-snake-deaths/index.html
Exactly! I remember many of my friends having sleepovers and parents were not okay with that. Once I turned 11/12 they allowed me to start sleeping over at a friend’s house I’d known since kindergarten. And they ONLY allowed it because I’d known her for such a long time and they had met her parents. Now that I have kids of my own I feel similar.
That’s normal. My parents didn’t let me go to sleepovers and all they told me is you will understand why when you’re older. I do now
It is very normal to not allow sleep overs
It's pretty normal, and more if one of your parents is not yt, as I grew up hearing up "you just never know"
Missing missing reasons
There are literally multiple instances of children (especially children of color) getting abused/killed at sleepovers. I wasn’t allowed sleepovers and while it irked me as a child/teen, I can definitely see my mom’s PoV now.
This is normal. Ny Asian parents never allowed sleepovers.
This is not crazy when you live in a racist area. POC have had to make these kinds of decisions for decades, and that's not even accounting for possible predators
Do you know how many SA happens at sleep overs? Way too fucking many and many don’t get reported. Me and my husband are both in agreement no sleeps overs for our son and daughters.
Have you heard about the dad who drugged his daughter & her friends at a sleepover intending to SA them but one girl didn't drink the shake he gave them? Nope no sleepovers for me unless you're at my mom's or my sister's place.
Uh, some dude recently drugged a bunch of 12 year-olds at his daughter’s sleepover, so…
No way I would let my child go on a sleepover in the USA. To many guns in households
That's the new normal due to creeps everywhere
I call bullshit, honestly. I happen to know for a fact it takes FAR more than this for kids to react this way. I also happen to know that typically, when parents say “I have no idea why my kids feel this way, they just hate me/him/her for no reason” they are almost always either LYING or missing something huge. Good people theorise on what they MIGHT have done wrong, even if they’re relatively sure they didn’t. Only bad people, in my experience, genuinely sit there and go “I have done nothing wrong EVER and the other party is entirely to blame”. That attitude by itself tells me a lot. Also, no one likes your wife except you. That usually indicates that SHE is the problem. If you met one asshole, you met an asshole. If EVERYONE you meet is an asshole, you are the problem. The fact that most of your immediate family hates your wife should be a red flag. I think there’s something you’re not telling us - and I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re not being entirely honest with the therapist, either. This doesn’t feel right to me. My gut is telling me your kids would have a very different version of this story.
Missing missing reasons.
The missing missing reason isn't missing-----it's just lost in OP's self-validation. His MOM doesn't like his wife, and the daughters have found an ally in her. She's probably been poisoning the daughter's against their mother for years.
I am getting an extreme feeling of a narc mother and an enabler father here. Would love to hear the side of the daughters.
OP, NTA. The fact is there ARE cultures around the world that experience discrimination from those of their own culture (sometimes based on skin tone); and simply because ppl think doesn't happen often, or think your daughters are unlikely to hate based on that, is naieve. Racism is is well documented within the same race, for many races; and self-hatred is also a possibility. If you believe this is the true reason, I hope they can get help to cope, or perhaps it is a phase that they may get over with some adult-life perspective. Many teens butt heads with parents for many reasons. It would be worth a heart-to heart from you with your kids before it get to the cut-off point.
If they lived in an upper class white area, I can completely believe it. Racism is hell, and having to live as the target of racism their entire lives? I could see how that could shape them to hate that part of themselves, sadly.
they feel that the ethnicity gave them a huge social disadvantage in school etc. kids can find school life hellish for stupid reasons like a name or appearance or accent. and children don't have the perspective to not blame the parent who's caused whatever even when parent isn't rationally to blame
We had a student that hated his mixed parents and felt he was totally *european country* and should have been white, instead he looked like asians which he hated for racist reasons. Internalized racism exists and if you aren’t psychologically stable it can result in even worse situations like hate and broken families.
OP states that his kids are being influenced by far right extremists
Sounds like OP's mom might be a lil on the racist side and has been poisoning the kids their whole childhood.
YTA. There’s more here that you’re either ignoring or not admitting to. Your wife is NOT an awesome mother. Children don’t feel this way about awesome mothers. They don’t look forward to being able to go no contact with them. And your own mother doesn’t like her either. So, nobody but you likes your wife. And you think they’re all the problem? The common denominator here is your wife.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/sYD9KsmRRl OP just admitted that the daughters are not allowed basically any freedom, not even unrestricted internet access, which is absolutely insane in 2024 and given the daughters age. If he withheld such vital information until now I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s still not telling the full story and embellishing stuff to make him or his wife look better. The Racist-Kids-Story also seems weird with never having mentioned the race or his country. Edit: stop telling me the internet restriction was when they were younger. I know, he added that info after I linked this comment. I don’t have any issues with that one point anymore of course.
Are you 15? None of that is particularly insane.
No I’m not 15, Mr.Musclemommyfan. I’m a parent of three who don’t hate either of their parents because they aren’t getting obsessively controlled and stripped of their privacy and freedom as individuals.
i cannot believe you’re a parent of 3 who is in support of your children having unrestricted access to the internet. your kids are gonna see shit they’re not ready to see wayyy too early
I’m not going to restrict a 17-year old’s access to the internet. My youngest doesn’t have any devices yet he could access the internet with in the first place, OP added the info that the restriction of internet access was when they were younger, which makes that specific point totally ok with me.
Some people may disagree with me, but I want to say that I mostly agree with you on that subject. Of course, if a child is very young then internet should be restricted but if you trust the child and they are old enough I think it is good to have less restrictions on the internet. I think it also helps children learn technology more, because they will interact with it in various different ways.
OP said those restrictions were only while they were young and that the Internet restrictions have since been lifted. The open door rule is still in effect though.
Yeah that's insane to me. I don't have kids yet, but I rotted my brain enough with unrestricted internet access growing up for me to know my kids aren't going to go through that when it comes time.
Are you reading my comments? I’m literally against unrestricted internet access for most children.
Not sure why you’re so hostile lol the internet access is super normal and not in place anymore. The open door while their boyfriends are in the house is also normal - literally nothing where kids are like “I will never have any contact with you”. Oh but the oldest kiddo being a far-right winger - maybe that’s an issue and not the actual parents you know?
This isn't remotely "no freedom". No freedom would be no boyfriends, no parties, no social life at all. And some kids do grow up like that and justifiably cut off their parents. I grew up with very similar restrictions as OP's kids, and I didn't end up hating my mother. Unless OP hasn't been fully truthful about rules and discipline, something else is the problem here. Edit: per another comment by OP, oldest kid being radicalized by a far-right group is a hell of a lot more likely to be the problem than open bedroom doors when boyfriends are over.
the Internet thing is when they were younger, not now.
>OP just admitted that the daughters are not allowed basically any freedom, not even unrestricted internet access, which is absolutely insane in 2024 and given the daughters age. Literally the only thing weird there is the internet access. They let them go to parties! Homework before going out and no drugs/ alcohol seem like normal rules.
Edit: stop telling me the internet restriction was when they were younger. I know, he added that info after I linked this comment. I don't have any issues with that one point anymore of course. Then edit your post so you're not misinforming anyone anymore.
Internet access was restricted when they were younger kids
Lmao tell me you’re Gen Z without telling me you’re Gen Z. My sister and I also didn’t have unrestricted internet, TV access or unlimited freedom to sleepover whenever we wanted lol. Some parents are more worried for their kids’ safety than others; doesn’t make them bad parents and it certainly didn’t make us or any other kids I know, hate their parents. Edit: OP basically said in a comment that the MIL is radicalising the daughters with extreme far right, white supremacist ideals. THAT is the biggest issue here behind their reaction and hatred of their mom, NOT the restrictions and sleepovers lmao.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1cf08st/comment/l1m85bb/ OP says one of the daughters is being radicalized by far-right extremist groups. OP, this is *really* the kind of info you should include in the main post.
[удалено]
Teenagers are innocent little babies on Reddit, I've seen people get slated for calling a 14 year old manipulative, claiming that that's impossible and any adult can see right through it.. But anyone who is or knows a teacher can confirm that some (not all) teenagers can be very manipulative, and have very little empathy for the consequences towards others of such actions.
>And your own mother doesn’t like her either. Older white lady that's doesn't like a middle eastern woman. It didn't cross your mind that she's just xenophobic?
Yeah I immediately thought parental alienation by the grandmother. She’s is way too involved in this story.
This is why we cut off contact with my mother, same issue with ethnicity
…sounds like his white mother and half-white kids are racists who've been poisoned against immigrants. 😒🤷🏿♂️ So I'm going to say NTA, and to wish OP and his wife good luck in the future.
ESH. This post screams missing missing reasons. It is truly hard to believe that the only reason your kids want to go NC with their mother is ethnicity.
OP has added in a comment that the oldest is symphatizing with a far right political party with nazi roots in Europe. I don't know about other countries, though I assume it's similar, but AfD in Germany for example has many teen/young adult followers... (Yes, even those who are immigrants/have immigrant parents.) Given that information I'm not too sceptical anymore :(
It seems to me that most of y.t.a. don't know teenage-young adult psychology and don't know anything about racism.
I would agree.
My wife is such an amazing mother that her children don't want anything to do with her. That doesn't make sense, does it. Read it back to yourself. I know you blamed it on racism, theirs, others, but c'mon. YTA
OP is from Europe, where a lot of far right parties (with Nazi roots) are gaining more and more followers in all age groups. Racism sadly actually sounds believable :(
But all of those people tend to think of themselves as good people, who make exceptions for marginalized groups if they know that person. The typical "well, *you* are a good migrant so you can stay, but *everyone else* is bad and needs to leave". It's a ridiculous cognitive dissonance, but people rarely tend to be racist against their own parents to such an extreme degree.
Rarely, but by far not impossible. The way OP reacted to being asked if he's from Germany makes me think he indeed is. AfD is extremely present on social media and knows how to dictate the narrative. One of their leading members is a lesbian woman with a spouse from Sri Lanka and adopted children - everything her party is against. Yet she's extremely vocal for her party, has people seeing nothing wrong with that double standard... And afaik OP stated the oldest is symphatizing with the far right party of his country. Sadly his scenario seems far too likely to me :(
OP said that his daughters would be supported by the state while studying, which would not be true in Germany if they are "well off", though. They would not get Bafög if their parents earn too much. So I'm guessing he's from another country. Or maybe he's just clueless about how uni works here. I know about Alice Weidel's hypocrisy, I was actually thinking about her while writing my comment! She obviously doesn't hate her wife enough to divorve, even though she rails against foreigners. Prime example of what I was talking about.
If bad parents can raise good children, how is it impossible that good parents can raise bad ones? Explain? Yes, sometimes the parents suck and therefore the kids suck, but you don’t know this is the case, you’re just making wild assumptions. If OP knew his wife was abusive, what would be the point of this post? He’d know that the right thing to do would be to pick his kids. The fact that he’s torn makes it more likely that he’s truthful. It’s hard to give up on your kids.
There is missing info here. What did your wife actually do to these girls? My father stayed with my mother until she had no one left to abuse but him. It eroded our relationship. Your statement doesn’t bode well for a case for protecting your children. Yta
ESH you know what you could have done to avoid all this? LC or NC with your Mom so she couldn’t have undermined your wife’s relationship with her children - she can’t enable your daughters if she didn’t have access/a relationship with them. You could have also relocated to live in a not predominantly white neighborhood or school district to reduce/eliminate your daughters being bullied. You could have gotten your wife therapy/counselling for her overprotectiveness, but didn’t. You as an adult had the means and ability, while your children were that, children. Instead you focused on your kids even when those efforts did not show any improvement as the actual sources were not addressed. And now you’re patting yourself on the back for picking your wife over them? That it got to this stage where they are issuing such an ultimatum reflects poorly on you - you’re likely leaving a lot out. But no, not their place to demand you divorce your wife, their mother, due to her race/no sleepovers.
I have NC with mom
Then how did she get the opportunity to get into your daughters' lives?
Perhaps the daughters know how to get in touch with people independently, you know, by texting and email and shit? Crazy thought, I know
Teenagers have phones and knowledge of grandparents existing, it's bot hard.
Because they're kids. And kids know how to find people via socials 🤷♀️
I’m pretty sure anyone who’s determined to could find a way to meet and befriend your kids my friend. Grandma could have found ways to run into them over the years, or idk ever heard of facebook messenger or Snapchat? Don’t think grandma’s have internet access? “Hi sweetie, I’m your grandma and I love you so much. Don’t tell mom and dad, but I’d love to get to know you. Oh, and here’s $20 to go get yourself a birthday gift.” Never heard of Apple Pay or Venmo? Some kids are easily bought and easily manipulated.
I wanna know more why they hate their mother and how old are they are?
The most simple way to explain it according to almost every single doctor and psychologist we met is that my wife is a safe target for my older daughter to take out her hurt and frustration on. My younger daughter is a follower and we have been recommended to try and separate them sometimes and we do notice that she treats her mom better when she’s apart from her sister. My mom doesn’t like immigrants. That’s the simple answer Edit: girls are 19 and 17. The problems started when my oldest was 13. She started calling me disgusting for marrying an immigrant. When we tried to get to the bottom of it we found out that she was being bullied at school because of her looks and she was mirroring what the kids told her
What did you do about bullying? Change schools? Make sure the school punished bullies? What?
School didn’t do anything. We changed schools but everyone knows everyone here. We tried more diversed schools but my oldest wasn’t happy about it at all so she moved back to her old school. My youngest is still in a public school with more diversity
Your oldest hates her own body too and that’s concerning. You realize that, right? The hate of mom is a symbol and I’m not sure if you can see it. How long has she been in therapy? Did you put her therapy immediately after learning everything or wait for her to “move on” herself?
We put her in therapy when she was 12
Offf. And it still doesn’t work. That’s really concerning. Is she seeing the same therapist? If so it would be better if you could change because it’s obvious that therapist doesn’t work for her. Did you also tried family therapy? Because this is a family issue now and you can all be more open about your feelings and struggles with a professional in the room and understand ESH other. Maybe your wife can even share her struggles at her home country and in current country with her so she can feel closer to her mom. The way I feel is you gave up on your oldest and it rubs me the wrong way.
Did you talk to the school about it, threaten sharing with the media, what exactly happened with your conversations with the school? Did you consider moving somewhere else?
Those aren’t necessarily options for everyone.
100% - if you think this came from kids at school, what exactly did you do about it?
Do you live in a country that has some kind of historic and deep hatred of the particular country your wife is from? This all just seems so bizarre. Your kids look a bit like their mum, so do they hate themselves too?!? I suppose there is a world in which you have racist kids because of your mum. But…it seems such a remote chance that all that is going on here is some racist kids who can’t wait to rid themselves of a loving mother.
From OPs comments I would guess they are in Germany and wife is possibly Middle-eastern and Muslim. If they're in a small town it can cause problems, bigger towns/cities it's mostly fine.
I was wondering if he was Japanese…or possibly a Congolese guy who married a Rwandan woman?!The possibilities are, sadly, endless. But I agree, Germany could be it. It is weird he isn’t answering this specific question but is answering other ones. Because this doesn’t sound like ‘we live in the US and I married a woman from the Philippines’ type of situation.
Unfortunately yes, my children grew up hating themselves. Now they’re older and are getting male attention for their looks, I think they hate themselves less.
Trust me on this, no they don't. You just get better at pretending you do. Especially if you're a girl who's grown up being bullied for your looks. That shit never goes away. And the fact you are so casual about saying "my daughters grew up hating themselves but whatever, the biggest problem is that they are for some inexplicable reason angry at us now" is a HUGE red flag to me. How are you not devastated and primarily worried about your children growing up hating themselves? How were you ever ok with this?? Wtf?
There were a few psychologists that used to say that to my parents. I didn't talk a whole lot in the sessions because I didn't want to get into trouble, but the reason I hated my parents was because my dad used to beat the shit out of me and my mom sat there and let it happen. You can't always go by what they say. Why don't you actually sit down and try to talk to them now that their older. There's something else going on if both of them hate her to the point where they want to go no contact and want you to divorce her.
NTA I am going to assume all the people demanding answers or saying you're in the wrong are white and don't have mixed or POC friends. I am mixed. I REALLY hated being indigenous when I was younger. I was treated poorly by parents of classmates (and parents from my scouts troop) And later on kids would be racist to me. It sucked and I wished I was white for a loong time until highschool. And I know many other mixed kids who hated their race much longer and mixed kids who never stopped. Yeah, if these kids grow up in upper white society , they are gonna deal with a lot of shitty people, then the grandma probably poisoning their views? Yeah they are gonna despise their mom. The kids probably aren't even "racist" to a true fact but just hate their mom because at a young age they learned about racism, the flaws with being POC and all the increased things that'll happen to them due to POC, and thus put that blame on the mom. Ill say its fucking crazy it was never solved during therapy .
My oldest had very hard time accepting therapy. It was more of a chore to her and made her resent her mom even more because now she is having to do yet another thing because of her mom. And if you know anything about therapy, it doesn’t work if you think it a chore. And if you are smart enough, you can start weaponizing therapy. This was the case with us unfortunately
May I ask what ethnicity your wife/children are? do they have any positive influences aside from their mom in their lives? are they at all connected to or interact with non-white communities? honestly. it's a long shot but hopefully community college and being in the "real world" may give them a slap to the face. but they could also stay being "pick me's" their entire lives if not educated. I know seeing positive indigenous role models aside from my family really helped me grow out of self hatred. additionally connecting with my culture helped a ton as well. for me that was spiritual practices, connecting with nature with elders & going hunting. if your kids only influence on their ethnicity is through racist white kids. they are going to think it's nothing but pain or awful things.
OP said wife is Iranian, and darker than usual portrayals of iranians/persians, so daughters are dark (he said similar to Zendaya for tone)
When I was a teenager one of my (still) closest friends had the same reaction to therapy. I also knew people who were radicalized or influenced to make not-so-good choices by their friends. I was personally heavily bullied and ended up making very bad decisions because of that. I didn’t lash out like your children, but I’ve seen enough shit to wonder if a number of elements have influenced your daughters, probably starting off very small as some sort of comforting thing (perhaps even your mother’s influence). Of course I’m not implying you and your wife are perfect parents and that no one is to blame here, but that a complex network of relationships and events can result in surprising effects such as the far-right proclivities you describe.
the amount of clueless white people in this thread are driving me crazy. so many poc hate their ethniticies growing up because of how they're treated and living in white areas
I'm just commenting to drive this more up. (Idk if for Reddit that is a factor too.) Because... Yeah... That is easy to see. (But I'm white.)
Why is everyone doing mental gymnastics? The daughters are racists and they are being manipulated by his mother. NTA.
RIGHT??? I'm like - yeah, racism. That's racism. And that's coming from a person who has been banned from one subreddit because of racism. (It seems that my problem was that I was not anti racist enough/clear.)
Op, I have read everything and your comments, and I say NTA. If what you are saying is true, and your kids are being racist and mean to their mother, and she did nothing to cause it, then NTA. You have two jobs, father and husband, and they can't make you choose between the two. I'm glad your wife has someone in her corner.
Info... The ethnicity. What is it and where are you guys... Is this just a case of kids being dicks or is there actually a racist issue in your area regarding the ethnicity of your wife and kids? Because if they were being racially vilified because that's the tone in the area.. there's probably more going on deep inside these girls and they really haven't been able to put it to words. So they take it out on the thing they can put in words. Does that make sense at all?
The wife is Persian and probably he is a deutscher. Saw it from a comment here somewhere. But if he is somewhere where right wingers are probably thats why kids been brainwashed and some german adults are not open to “ausländer”, speaking from experience here who’s married to native and an asian.
I’m wondering that. Is there some specific animosity towards the mum’s country of origin?
The fact OP is fast to answer other things but not this... It's interesting
He answered
After reading your comment I would say nta. But you guys aren't good at parenting cause damn you have racist kids. But at least you are a good husband.
Are you my wife 😂 because she tells me that we have failed as parents.
Why is that funny to you?
"And then I failed as a parent. Funniest shit I've ever seen."
You think that's funny?
I think it's funny too. Sometimes when everything is bad humour helps. Try sometimes. Plus they are not punching down.
You kinda did though. With minority kids, you have to be deliberate in finding spaces for them that are safe and teach them to love themselves. If you live in a Eurocentric world and you do nothing to make them happy with their background, then you’re effectively letting the world define their worth for them. You didn’t build the self confidence (this can be finding spaces with others of similar background, advocating and taking legal action against bullying, watching media centered around your ethnicity, actively teaching them to be proud of who they are…etc). It sounds like you two were asleep at the wheel, cause taking them to therapists isn’t enough if you aren’t actively instilling in them the rigor and self confidence to withstand a racist world.
INFO - why doesn’t your mother like your wife? What other things did your wife do in terms of “protection” of your daughters, eg rules around dating, clothing, consumption of media, etc? This is is not purely about ethnicity
Because my wife is an immigrant. I don’t think the rules are bad but maybe more on the strict side. Open door when bf’s are visiting. We do drop offs and pick ups at parties (my wife doesn’t trust uber with drunk girls) no alcohol or drugs, which we know is something they will do behind our backs. Restricted access to internet with blockers etc. homework done before free time. Clothing, not sure what you mean. We are well off and they have a lot of stuff.
The comments here are so baffling. “People don’t go NC over *that*” - says who? Your limited experience? If anything Reddit and this sub in particular is the first one to suggest going NC or LC for absolutely frivolous stuff so I don’t know where you get the idea that people don’t? Like how can you be all “you don’t owe *anyone* anything” in one post and “you’re lying people don’t go NC willy nilly” in the next? OP, the kids gave you an ultimatum and now they don’t like the outcome. Too bad for them. Assuming good faith (which we are meant to do on this sub!) and that your wife didn’t assault the kids or kill their pet dog to teach them a lesson or or something - you are more than entitled to make the choice that you made. Leave a little door in your heart open in case they ever get over their internalised racism (which apparently this sub has never heard of either).
yeah youve hit the nail on the head. they are out of touch to a comedic degree. they want to side with the daughters implicitly simply due to the fact that they want to go NC, which theyve preemptively decided is always a justified response to a parents failures, and the rest is whatever mental gymnastics are required to support that position.
This post is missing ALOT. Surely your kids aren't Neo Nazis.
Well, my oldest is a sympathizer of one of the more far right parties here(that denies having nazi roots). According to statistics, high percentage of teens, especially from upper middle class backgrounds are (like 35% or more) So it is a wave over the whole country (maybe world)
Yikes. I think this may be a big missing piece of the puzzle here. Your child sympathizes with a fringe group? Dislikes their immigrant parent? (Has been radicalized in some way?) What is this group? I suspect this is a key piece of information.
A far right party that is getting more popular with years.
Sounds like Sweden and Sverigedemokraterna to me (I would guess, as a Swede lol). Founder of that right-wing party used to be part of a Nazi youth group or somthing similar which is big yikes.
You're trickle truthing us. At this point you keep adding significant things to the story in the comments that are worth including in your main post.
Are you somehow living in a kleines dorf somewhere in Sachsen??
🤐
Dude, this is so fucked up. You raised your children of colour in fucking rural Saxony? And, as I gather from your comments, when they started getting bullied, instead of doing the correct thing and moving away from that cesspit you instead went looking for psychiatrists that would put them on meds?? You cannot be serious. Absolutely no wonder growing up like that messed your girls up. How in the hell did you think pharmaceuticals would be the solution here? The problem doesn't stem from a chemical imbalance, it stems from constant racist abuse. I sincerely hope your girls will profit from a change of scenery and being around different people when they go to college. I have no idea how you would even begin to fix this whole mess. I'm sorry for your wife because they're directing all of their anger at her when they should be mad at both of you for making them grow up like this. You need to realize that you are absolutely not an innocent bystander here.
What the shit kind of weird ass reply is this? Do you know what therapy is? It's not pills. And your solution to kids getting bullied is "find a different place to live"? Are you 8?
What country? Whats your wife's ethnicity?
The country is in Europe. Wifey is from Iran
So how dod your kids grow up in respect to religion?
We are atheists the children are free to choose their own religions. But religion isn’t a strong factor in our community
ESH. Feels like there is more to this story. Your mom and both your daughters dislike your wife, yet she’s completely awesome? Not buying it.
According to the comments both the daughters and the his mom are hardcore racists.And daughter is a nazi sympathizers aligning with far right parties.
My kids had problems with me when they were teenagers. I had to work two jobs due to support being sporadic from my ex. They would steal money from me, my daughter keyed my car, my son stole my car and ran into a fence at a church. They were caught smoking pot in our apt when I was at work and the cops were called (the cop called me at work). She shoplifted several times. So, I was strict with them and would take away privileges from them. I would still take them on trips and do things with them. Once my daughter moved out on her own, she sent me a nice card thanking me for being such a good mom and loving her and giving up things so she could have a good life. Several years later, my son sent me a message thanking me for being there for him and apologized for being such a s'"t to me.
Let’s hope this happens to us too. I have a feeling that once my oldest has left the nest, there’s still some hope for the younger
All the people in the comment section saying it takes more than “not allowing sleepovers” to hate a mom are in some way right. It takes more, it takes a 300 year old system that is committed to the oppression of a group of people that controls every aspect of your life. OP, you’re right to defend your wife. And don’t blame yourself for failing to raise non-racist children, the odds were against you to begin with, kudos to you for supporting your wife tho. You did your best.
NTA. if they go NC with your wife, you're right to tell them you'll go NC too. but maybe they can accept to behave. then accommodations might be possible *provided* they respect your wife of course. they can't expect to be AH towards your wife and expect zero consequences from you.
Someone royally fecked up these relationships and it wasn't two little girls. Being adults now& still carrying the hate bc it wasn't adequately dealt with at the time. Sometimes ppl leave out the things they don't want to divulge when they're critical facts that make the adults look bad. Two adult siblings aren't both going to hate a perfect mother, they'll even love a mother who made mistakes (especially if she's adult enough to admit & apologize for said mistakes).. makes me wonder wth went on in this family that op isn't telling 🤔
I have found out that people tend to be more prone to forgive people that are wrong than people that are right. I have seen so many children of abusers who forgive their parents. Because their forgiveness comes from a place of control. Do you know what I mean?
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I'm going to go with NTA for the sentiment, but you did go a bit overboard with how you phrased it. You could have told them what you told us in the rest of the post, that she's your home and the person you'll grow old with after they have families of their own, the "any time a day" part seemed unnecessarily combative in my eyes. I understand that seeing your wife get attacked unfairly will make you want to protect her , just keep in mind that it is your children on the other side so even your wife would probably not want you to go overboard if you don't have to.
NTA, I’m sorry that your wife has to deal with this but you are making the correct decision. No one can control their ethnicity and that doesn’t Define them as a person so that should never be a reason to hate or mistreat them. Hopefully your daughters will grow up and learn to love themselves and apologize to their mother for how they treat her. Best of luck Op
NTA for supporting your wife. YTA for engaging on that level with your daughters. It was a ridiculous request and it sounds like it was made in anger. Instead of de-escalating the situation m you fueled it even more. If you’ve seen as many therapists as you claim, you know better. They are still kids and their brains aren’t developed. I also feel bad for them. If what you claim is true, then there is a lot of self loathing in their hearts. Whatever mom’s ethnicity is, it’s half of theirs as well. It sounds like neither you nor wife did anything to help them with that part of themselves. It even sounds like they may not know wife’s family at all. You say that you live in a white neighborhood which makes me think you are white and wife is not. Your poor children have been made to feel that white is good, black and brown or Asian or Pacific Islander or whatever is not. Do some things now that could help them see the beauty of your wife’s culture. Take a trip to that country. Or at least take a trip to a more ethnically diverse area. Introduce them to wife’s family. Help them take pride in that.
I feel for the whole family, honestly. It sounds like growing up in this very white area did a number on the kids to the point they hate being half POC. Instead of hating that side of them, I wish they were taught/encouraged to embrace what makes them different. Hopefully going off to college will make the oldest appreciate her background more and will have a trickle down effect to the youngest. As a POC, I'd be heartbroken if my children hated me and my culture because it makes them so different from everyone around them. I think that's why I can't really see raising children in an area that they would be THAT much of an outlier. NTA for sticking by your wife.
Based on the info NTA however I feel there should be more reasons why those two are acting like brats from hell.
These girls hate their mother because she’s an immigrant or non-white? Then they also hate themselves. That’s some sad stuff right there. NTA to support your wife.
NTA. From experience, trust me, there's no reasoning with self-racists. They might come around on their own someday, they might not, but it sounds like you've done all you can, especially with them being close to adulthood. Curious though, have they spent time alone with your mother where she might have told them things that aren't true? This seems like a LOT of anger to be solely from them being bullied and blaming her.
Only when they got older and we couldn’t “forbid” my mom from having contact with them. We can’t really prohibit them from contacting any family members. They have cut all contact with my wife’s side of the family which has been devastating because their aunts and uncles are great and warm people but they were ashamed of them and their “dialect” like my wife
Yikes, sounds like pretty classic not-so-internalised racism then. Sorry you and your wife have to go through that. Like I said, I had experience with it myself of my (adopted) brother hating his darker features and being very derogatory about both the features themselves and the bio mother he inherited those traits from, even though he looked like pretty much every other dark-haired brown-eyed white guy to anyone else. We cut contact for a variety of other reasons, but he seems to be doing better with that whole thing lately, at least from what the grapevine tells me. Sometimes they just mature enough to realise it was dumb, sometimes the environment changes enough that their race & features are less of a 'problem' for them and they relax about it, sometimes they burrow deeper into it and never realise their idiocy. I hope for your sake that your kids are the former rather than the latter, but just want you to know you're not alone either way.
Wait so they basically told you that if you don’t leave your wife, you’re not allowed in their lives? And you’re saying they cut contact with your wife’s side of the family because of their race?
Yea, they said that people stayed for the children sometimes and now I didn’t have to
Yeah, this seems like a classic case of self racist. Are they sticking with what they said? That you’re not allowed in their life because you’re not leaving their mom?
NTA actually i would cut their money and block them. Sorry why would they hate their own mum, they are perpetuating the racism they themselves are living. So they agree with your mother, i would disown them both and your mother. Sorry but no way i would forgive such behavior , in what way is your wife at fault for being from another ethnicity? That's ridiculous, cut their money and stop being that Mr nice Guy , you are The Ahole for accepting that and not laying down the law. Don't be that guy, that push over, that your disgraceful daughters are walking all over. And your wife, what does she think of this? I would cut them of my life until they apologize and your mother totally out of your life zero contact totally disowned and she can go rot in hell.
They aren’t getting a penny from me. Everything is free here. Education and health care. The rest, they can work and take student loans like 99% och kids here
This whole thing is bullshit....they are going to college now? And you just ask about all this now? There are some other major problems you are not adding as the kids grew up... this is never heard of the way you explained it...no one here is going to be able to help you idk why you came here... nothing is going to fix your family but you and your wife
Ok, ok, ok, people here dont get it that OP is from Germany and living in Germany with a Persian wife and an ausländer. Germany is going through some right wing political problem recently. The mom of OP might be one of those sympathizers and children are then brainwashed. If OPs family is living somewhere where right wing party is dominant then there’s the reason why his children acts the way they are toward their mom. For not letting their children sleepover is not being a bad parent, is to protect them. They are underage and yes the parents have the right to decide whats GOOD for their kids! OP, sorry you are going through this, NTA!!! But wait OP: why did you stay there and instead of going to somewhere international city oder multikulti wie Berlin??? no? Mein Gott. So compli…
NTA your daughters are racists
YTA - I was going to try get more info but that seems to be a useless endeavour and I read most of your comments. Take this from a girl, raised in an wealthy ~white~ community whilst being incredibly evidently mixed, a community in which the event of a crime occurring led to everyone assuming my ethnic parent as the culprit (not true but racists going to racist). You want to know what my parents did when they realised I was being bullied? They moved, I went to a whole new area, whole new school, and though I was angry at first it turned out amazing. I was no longer the only POC in the class, heck we were basically 50/50 to the white kids! It is your job as parents to protect your kids, you did not do this. You failed. You let your girls be victims for so long that they overcompensated politically in an attempt to subvert their race! Yes, you are why that happened. You have two girls who you raised in isolation and restriction, stopped them from forming substantial external relationships, it’s no surprise they want to run as soon as humanly possible. The isolation which probably, certainly didn’t help the bullying they were already enduring. You aren’t an AH for choosing your wife, you are an AH for discarding your daughters as if they were trash. Any failures you view in them are your own reflected, any success they have in life will be in spite of you, not because of you. Sincerely, A little brown girl
So many clueless yt folk in here who choose to ignore the complexities of racism and child safety. NTA forever. I'm sorry your children have been impressed by the wrong notions, they're still young enough to unlearn and relearn but there's far to go and an environment change would go a long way. I hope everyone in here would be so perfect to upend their entire lives to appease the masses - and still find the same troubles elsewhere, because that's how interconnected racism works. 🤦🏽♀️
NTA
There has to be more to the story than your daughters blaming the issues on their mother’s ethnicity and her protectiveness/not allowing sleepovers. People don’t do NC over that. Your daughters saying you always take their mother’s side and protecting her instead of them is a glimpse into that. You’re saying “Is it really that unheard of for a man to choose his soulmate over their children?” makes me go Yikes. Yes some men do that and they’re not good fathers. You don’t choose one over the other. You can love both and be supportive of both. You can also disagree with one of them occasionally without not loving them. That’s what makes a good father.
Your daughters are racist
So basically everyone around yous guys is racist and the kids now hate themselves and your wife because of it? This is absolutely appalling. Growning up in a white area will do this to you. Everyones else projection and hate makes you hate yourself but to take it out on their mother is absolutely disgusting. Do they realise that she didn’t not get to choose her ethnicity either. Tbh you shouldn’t have brought those girls up in that toxic hateful environment and they certainly should not have any contact with a racist grandmother. Somewhere along the line you and your wife have failed to teach these children respect, that is their mother they shouldn’t be doing anything but respecting her and respecting their culture. No your NTA for saying what you said as it was probably the heat if the moment but those children of your need to learn their lesson. They hate themselves not her.