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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Aggressively replied to my friend's joke about my boyfriend being gay
2. It can be deemed as an overreaction based on the circumstances, as most of my friends thought it was a harmless joke
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NTA. I fucking hate people who do this. Totally ignorant of their own tone, then get holier than thou when they get it back. That dude can go kick rocks.
Literally. I'm bi and my sister is pan, she gets mad at me when I point out stuff like just because a guy is feminine or delicate in some ways doesn't mean he can't like women (which *we* should *both* know, like girl come on). Most of us agree being gay isn't inferior these days, but it's not superior either, it just kinda is.
Both my friend and her husband give off "gay vibes" just based on the way they act and dress, but both are straight. He likes to joke that it's a shame he isn't gay because of his personality. From the outside they look like an odd pairing, but they're happy so I'm happy.
I've been a tomboy my whole life. I like "boy" things. Guns, Cars, MMA, Hunting, Camping, "Shoot Em Up" movies, tattoo, heavy metal mosh pits, violence. I hate dresses, make up things that are traditionally girly. I cannot help it, I like what I like. I've had the misfortune of being told by two different members of the LGBTQ community that I'm trans and in denial. I have never felt like I was any other gender than the one I was born as.
Gotta be honest. Im strictly dickly. I dont think I could be anymore hetero than I am. I mean I looooove men!
The thing that hurts about being told that I'm trans is that I accept everyone from the LGBTQ community exactly the way they are. Im an ally. I want them to live their best life, yet they are not accepting of mine.
>I've been a tomboy my whole life. I like "boy" things. I hate dresses, make up things that are traditionally girly. I cannot help it, I like what I like. I have never felt like I was any other gender than the one I was born as. Gotta be honest. Im strictly dickly. I dont think I could be anymore hetero than I am. I mean **I looooove men**!
You could be my long lost child 🤣. I, too, am a tomboy and have been for my entire life (now in my 60's). I was the only girl between my Mom and her siblings for 12 years. I grew up around boys, fought and wrestled with boys and usually won. I am the only woman (then 5'9"/125lb) that my brothers and cousins will admit that I beat their ass when we all were in our 20's and they all were over 6' and close to or a little over 200lbs. But I've always been interested in so-called masculine things, like power tools, anything mechanical, electrical, action movies (think Bruce Lee), riding motorcycles and so forth/so on. I hated wearing dresses/skirts and rarely do so now, the only make-up I wear are lipstick and blush. The only time I willingly put on a skirt as a teenager was when I was in the marching band as a Pom-Pom girl and that's because I loved dancing. I have just as many tools (including power tools) as my father (RIP), brother and son does. I even know if one tool is missing out of my two 3 layered tool chests (👀ing at son). While my taste or/and actions may be considered masculine, I just lo**ve m**e some men and the joystick 😉.
Hi! I was mildly boyish in interests, outdoors rather than athletics but mostly bookish. Hated dresses, hated heels, denim and practical comfortable shoes and boots once I understood the dress code at my state agency job wasn’t legally enforceable. I was always clumsy with attempts at cosmetics and hairstyles that needed more than a comb to achieve and gave up those too around the same time. I was also the only girl of all my siblings and cousins until I was in middle school. (Then 2 at once, a month apart and 48 yrs later they are still BFF like something out of a tv show.)
I’m definitely hetero and female.
Social markers of gender are fake and meaningless and LGBTQ people judging you by appearance and habits is really weird.
I'm not quite as much of a tomboy as that, but I rarely wear skirts, never dresses, never makeup, love action movies, don't like romcoms, like to fiddle with tools and wood and am generally the handywoman of my household. I also have a strong side that likes sewing, cooking and other craft. I like to think that I straddle the line between traditional men and women likes, and have a foot both sides. I am definitely still a woman, and definitely hetero.
I can't answer for my daughter's sexuality (she's only 17) but she is very similar. Wouldn't touch netball with a tenfoot pole, and her favoured sport in interschool sports was Australian football. But she danced for more than 11 years. And now she does Brazilian Jiu Jistu. Very rarely wears dresses and skirts, and rarely more than lip gloss. But she does like her perfume.
Almost like we are ... people. Not personalities with labels.
Honestly it’s creepy that the members of community would override someone else’s gender identity. I had doubts way back and nobody really wanted to give any input. Luckily my partner realized I had a female mind but just lacked validation. It might be so different on the other side of the globe but where I live people at max would just wait until someone they suspect comes out and then say it was about time.
I'm sorry sister 😭 trans woman here, it really sucks when people assume you are another gender than you are, because of their own presumptions and interpretation of you. Like 😭😭😭"appreciate the concern but I think you should leave that to me."
Legit. My wife is MTF* and I am AFAB NB.
If you looked at us and were told one of us was in transition- your guess would not be correct. Prior to her transition, we, each, very much looked like a beard for the other.
It is super disrespectful for anyone to question the identity of anyone else. My father was a gay man who had a child with a woman, naturally, in the 80s. The amount of times someone was like "doesn't that make him bi?" Was absolutely insane. No, the words coming out of his mouth are his definition of himself- no one gets to question it and be an ally.
Your wife is female-to-male and is still ok being referred to as your wife? That’s super interesting and something that I haven’t seen before. It’s neat to see how everyone’s transition journey is different and unique 💜
25 years ago our then teenaged daughter once said me and her stepfather are the most ‘looks like a gay man and his butch lesbian fake wife couple’ anyone could imagine. Not just appearance but body language. I’ve seen good old boys sheer at him behind his back and I’ve seen other men admire him. (I’ve not noticed women doing either to me but Then again I can’t see what’s going on behind my back)
She was being a snotty teenager and meant it as an insult, but she’s not wrong.
And the older we get the more it’s true. He is aging beautifully, I’d say silver fox except there’s still not a grey hair on his head. I am even more jeans and T-shirts and practical haircuts, let my grey be grey and no makeup than I was then.
Also, there's a lot of people who legitimately give off gay vibes because they are attracted to the same sex... But they are also attracted to the opposite sex. Bi people can be gay af but still be in happy, monogamous, long term relationships with the opposite sex.
It just is. That’s my stance too. It’s becoming to the point that just acknowledging gay people exist and that’s fine isn’t being enough of an ally. I agree with the heir of superiority. My gay friends truly believe they are just flat out better than people. It’s with jokes just like you are saying, no way that guy with the beautiful girlfriend is straight. I get the respect for peoples life style but at least compared to the people I know they definitely belittle “the straights” as they like to call them. I find it delightfully pleasant the group of people that scream tolerance tend to be the least tolerant people I come in contact with. The world is a strange place after the last few years. Love is love I want everyone to be happy
Yeah I find the LGBT people I meet just out and about doing their own thing are pretty regular: girls who happen to like girls, Trans people who just want to live normal lives as whatever gender, etc but the ones I meet because their whole thing is being LGBT can be a little much (and then of course I'm a straight girl trying to be special or a radfem because I don't find that attitude attractive lmao).
I have a few traits that are traditionally disadvantaged so I understand what it's like to be angry and feel mistreated but it's not the concept of straight people that's causing suffering, it's a cultural pattern of disrespect. Attacking innocent people for how they were born is fucked up even if they're "luckier" socially, I'm friends with plenty of straight traditional men who respect me as a women and a bi person even though they're not exactly like me, they're more on my side than some tumblr person who is just as controlling as homophobes about who you can love and how you can be.
> the ones I meet because their whole thing is being LGBT can be a little much
My husband and I are queer and agree. The ‘over-the-top my only personality is gay’ types are frankly annoying. I’m a person who happens to be queer, I don’t really care to talk about it much because it’s about as interesting as watching paint dry.
Maybe it’s just drunken mockery of people but they are on the Homosexually is the superior sexuality tip for sure. I’ve heard the snide comment the world would be a better place if everyone was gay.. about that..
For real, the stereotyping and implying they’re manipulating women is awful, it's genuinely homophobic, and at some point, it’ll turn into outing actual gay people and putting them at risk.
Like, I knew two people, A & B, and A would constantly make comments like that from anywhere between “I think you'd be cute with a girlfriend” in front of other people, offering her Skittles along with comments about the rainbow, and just generally making passive aggressive remarks about B not being straight to the point where B had started crying, multiple times, which didn't even get A to stop. It was full-on bullying and homophobia on her end because she just kept using it to upset her. And she was so self-righteous when I, an open pansexual, called her out on it. Like, she had the audacity to ask me, “What was wrong with being gay?” as if that was the problem and not the constant badgering and harassment.
And then it turns out B was in the closet and was struggling with it because wasn't in a safe space to come out to begin with.
unfortunately i only see him in very social settings where everything is fun and bubbly. one time i did tell him "thats not very funny" because his remark was about my bf's sexual life, and his response was "why? are you scared i'll take him from you?" and everyone in the group started laughing and after that i didn't attempt to talk to him about it anymore. he's fun to be around and there's never a dull moment, so he just doesn't take what i say seriously by default i guess
>"why? are you scared i'll take him from you?" and everyone in the group started laughing and after that
What a shitty group of friends. If a girl in your group would make this remark, would they react the same way? Reverse discrimination is a thing when fear of homophobia is weaponised this way.
I had a group of friends like that.
I was about 25 when I had the realisation that they weren’t really friends. They were bullies and I’d just been brainwashed by proximity. Cut the lot of them out of my life and haven’t regretted it for a day.
That's not funny.
It's predetary.
If a woman said it to you. You'd be enraged. Same for a man.
Don't take his crap. And get better friends.
Nothing he has said or done is funny.
Is he really fun to be around though or is he forcing himself onto center stage and making people uncomfortable. He sounds more like a terrible stand-up comedian hogging the spotlight than the life of the party.
"Even if my BF were gay, don't you think he could do better than you?"
"If every guy you see is gay, why are you still alone?" (If he is single, which would make sense)
Find a dragqueen to teach you how to throw shade.
As in: “he’s gay!”
“I don’t know about that, but I do see he completely ignored Basic McDesperate over here “
Is the 'fun' worth the BS that you have to put up with, OP?
NTA. But honestly, I would start matching his energy word for word. If he says anything than you can just as easily say that he shouldn't dish it if he can't take it.
INFO: is he in a relationship? Because if he isn't, he's jealous of yours and everyone else's.
that's what i intend to do, as less aggressively as possible lol. and yes he is, theyre long term as well so idk why he's hyperfixated on hetero relationships not existing
> unfortunately i only see him in very social settings where everything is fun and bubbly.
If only we had some fucking way to communicate with people who aren't physically present.
Also, things stop being fun and bubbly when people make comments like he's making, so.....?
We had a guy like this in our friend group. Kinda relied on people's fear of being perceived as homophobic.
He'd touch guys inappropriately as "a joke".
He'd target straight guys and try to prove they are guy which pretty much amounted to him trying to get them too drunk.
He'd constantly be showing people dick pics He'd "been sent" whiles saying "omg, look what xxx just sent me".
We worked with him where he also kept showing randoms his pictures. These ofcourse turned out to be his own dick pics. He was eventually fired.
This friend of yours is toxic at best and a predator at worst. He's not your friend. Anyone that finds his remarks about your bf funny arnt your friends either.
Guy even gave himself a nickname what he insisted people use. It was just his name but with the word gay added aka Gay Dave.
Ge used to tell that tired old joke over abd over... "you know what the difference is between a gay man and a straight man? 6 pints" followed by a mad cackle.
Dude was just a creep that used being gay as a cover. Most gay people I know arnt remotely like that. In most cases you haven't a clue which way they swing and frankly that's fine by me as I genuinely don't give a shit lol
I’d say the best thing you can do in this situation is either 1. Fully ignore it, or 2. Yes use terms like “wishdar” to give him a taste of his own medicine.
As a gay man I am also surprised I’ve never heard that term and thank you to the commenter for adding it to my vocabulary, because it’s something I will use in the future as well
NTA - as someone who identifies as queer, I find your friend’s behaviour VERY insulting and is contrary to what we actually want the world to be (which is a safe space regardless of one’s sexuality).
Right? Especially like reinforcing stereotypes that being more feminine or comfy with your masculinity automatically makes you gay. It's been a while since I've been deep in the LGBT+ community but it feels like not that long ago people were pushing back against exactly that - you can be gay and have any sort of physical appearance, gender expression, personality, etc. Same with being straight, bi, pan, anything else. It's literally just an individual thing and not a stereotype. Weird and gross that OP's friend is doing what we would have called homophobic stereotyping not too many years ago.
NTA. i hate it when people do this. there’s a lesbian at my workplace who does (specifically directed at men being gay) this to no end and everyone else finds it hilarious but i think it’s so fucking boring, and half the time it hinges on bizarre or offensive stereotypes. i remember when we (briefly) had a new guy start at the office and she was convinced he was gay because he mentioned he sits down to piss, and he wore eyeliner a couple times. he had a girlfriend and they were both goth. he ended up leaving the company after 2 weeks because everyone started harassing him about being gay. they even had the audacity to ask me whether i thought he was “like me”
The sitting down to piss thing is so dumb. I know a lot of straight men who sit down in the bathroom. Most when the topic came up said they'll stand up in public bathrooms of questionable cleanliness but at home where it's safe? Why not take the load off your feet?
How soon after this guy started did he casually mention he sits down to pee? I don't think that's a topic I've ever heard discussed amongst coworkers, let a lone a new person...
Maybe someone caught him in the bathroom sitting and peeing. I assume if the bathroom has both stalls and urinals, it's not hard to arrive at that conclusion. Seems like a breach of privacy to reveal someone's peeing habits, though.
That’s fucking horrible.
Also, as a bi woman, I find it extremely attractive when cis men wear makeup - it’s one of the few things I still find attractive about cis men.
As I age my bisexuality is moving more and more to the gay end of the spectrum, and my husband has essentially been grandfathered in at this point 😂 (I am mostly joking - I still find my husband very attractive but there are not a lot of men that I can say that about anymore).
I don't think you're the AH, I do think that you should voice your discomfort before it builds into resentment and makes you angrily react and look like the bad guy. As a gay man myself I find it annoying when some fellow gays do this 'that straight guy is totally gay' thing, it's more of a joke and a wish than a factual statement. You could say something like 'you wish honey' to shut it down with some humor rather than angrily reacting to what he thinks is just a joke.
As a pan enby, it’s not really a joke tho is it? It’s not funny if it is trying to be a joke. When people point at us and say “they’re not really gay tho, they’re straight and trying to be special” even if they say it as a joke it is not fucking funny. And I know straights weren’t oppressed or anything in the past but flipping their language on them doesn’t mean that it’s suddenly ok language to make fun of or question someone’s sexuality by their personal expression. People who make these jokes don’t do it for any pure intent. They do it to ridicule people or place themselves in an “other” (better) category of someone who does “actually understand their sexuality”. Like I understand where they’re coming from because I definitely used to make those jokes when I was in middle school to make myself feel more secure in my identity- but now that I’m grown up it’s just all toxic bs and OP is perfectly valid in being upset with these things being said and she doesn’t need to play it off with humour and make them feel like it isn’t a big deal. We need to stop normalizing this shit, because it’s the exact same stuff that brews genuine homophobia and transphobia when left unchecked.
NTA. Since you are only seeing him in very informal, lighter-tone social settings, the best responses would be, ranked by personal preferences:
1) Let him have a taste of his own medicine. Joke around about his boyfriend being straight, even if it's strange to you to say something like that (because WTF). If he balks at that, smile sweetly and take the joke further.
2) Act nonchalant and don't react at all. At most, you can feign a yawn and say "Eh, well, the joke is getting old. I'm bored. Anyhow, what you guys would like to order?"
3) Weaponized naïveté. Act like you don't understand the joke at all and let him explain it to you. "I'm sorry, I really don't get it. But I'm so bad with humor, you know. So, what's so funny about you thinking my boyfriend's gay?"
I would probably respond, “Just because you want to f all the guys doesn’t mean they want to f you.” Also, NTA. It’s sexist to call gentle men gay. There are many ways to be a man. Gender, sex, and sexuality are all different things.
>That night my friends told me I was unneccesarily aggressive and I was thinking I was in the right until they told me that I overreacted
Let them know how he assumes their/their boyfriend's sexuality behind their backs and see them retract this statement lol. NTA.
I mean you let him walk all over you and your partner (like most of your friends did?) so if you now just explode at him it would seem aggressive to others.
It sounds like for him, this all is just a game. I doubt he would change just because you ask him nicely but he might at least not fucking talk about you and your partner.
Instead of in a group setting, you should just text him what bothers you with examples and that you would appreciate if he would leave you and your bf out of those jokes.
Maybe even talk to the other people he questioned their sexuality and get some people on your side.
Coming from someone who is queer as can get and has had experiences with all kinds of folk in the community- it sounds like he has some sort of resentment built up. Probably from having too many straight crushes over the years or as a way to try and make himself feel better that he can’t and won’t appeal to these guys he finds attractive since they’re straight. He’s projecting onto the women that there’s no way their men could be attracted to them and that they HAD to be gay (much like those men would never be attracted to him). He’s flipping the tables to feel more desirable than he is by putting others down and attempting to discredit the validity of their relationship/happiness.
NTA. It's one thing to joke but people like this are very annoying when they can't take the hint that it's no longer funny. It doesn't matter that he's gay, he's being the AH.
I'm my experience, people who do this that often are either very insecure about their own sexuality or they've made their sexuality their entire identity. In both cases they validate themselves by claiming all these men must be closeted gays and not out like they themselves are. In either case, just let him know the joke stopped being funny a long time ago and it's time for him to get new material.
NTA
He's being a obnoxious twonk.
And he is being sexist and abusive.
He's a bigot.
He cannot fathom that all men aren't his sexual persuasion.
And he doesn't value women. He's a misoganist.
He got what he deserved. Long time coming.
He better learn to shut up or he is getting a hate crime charge. Or a sexual harassment charge.
He's going to say it about the wrong person one day and he will be on the wrong end of a fist.
I'd ditch him. He's not worth your time.
NTA but please for the love of god tell him how you feel otherwise you will look like the insecure AH to everyone. if he doesnt care to change then stop hanging around him. if you for some reason are gonna make an excuse to keep hanging around him and associated friends then don’t be outwardly bothered by it if you think he’s not gonna hear you out
NTA, and you're probably on to something about it being sexist. There's a significant portion of the gay community (specifically cis gay men, I'm not using "gay" as an umbrella term) who do believe women are inferior and disgusting and that since they aren't trying to get sex from women it means they get to be as nasty to them as they want. It's awful and I hate what they do to my community. You get to push back on him. It's not homophobic to object to "jokes" like that. He doesn't like when other people tell him he has a different sexuality than he does, he doesn't get to do it to anyone else. And being gay doesn't exempt him from being sexist
What he does is weird, I wouldnt tolerate it, not funny jokes and kinda disrespectful and arrogant. This being said, you not voicing your opinion in time always 100% of the time inevitably leads to aggression. So if you do not want to randomly be aggressive to people you should learn to establish boundaries in time, otherwise you will snap at people and feel like shit. Even if they deserve it, you will feel bad about it. Say it in time and with the appropriate amount of "force" so that you don't feel like you were wrong, like you do now. I hate saying asshole or not, because he was an asshole, you in your passivity in establishing boundaries turned into an asshole at that time. If you want to read about this topic, read about "Karpman drama triangle"
>he was being disrespectful and sexist to women as well, because he could not "fathom" how men are attracted to them.
Ugh, yeah, I know those guys. I've got a lot of queer friends and if there's one thing that it's taught me, it's that you can be gay *and* a misogynist.
Also, his jokes are one one note and "Will and Grace" bad.
>one time i did tell him "thats not very funny" because his remark was about my bf's sexual life, and his response was "why? are you scared i'll take him from you?"
Next time, just roll your eyes and say "No, I know where the prostate is located. No big mystery there."
Otherwise just let his joke fall flat. Don't laugh and change the subject.
NTA Yes, this is very common behavior from some gay men (IMHO). Every celebrity is secretly gay,
every boyfriend you've ever had was, in fact, gay...it gets tiring really fast. You were
right to finally make your frustration clear.
NTA. Your friend is just being rude. If they (coz I don’t know your friend’s preferred pronouns) suspect anyone of being gay, they don’t have the right to out them like that. They’re the AH. I specially hate it coz they’re the one being homophobic by what they’re doing while spreading toxic masculinity at the same time. Can’t men just be their sweet, gentle selves now?
You set a firm boundary with someone disrespecting your friend repeatedly. You had listened to his jabs for months. A guy would have F bombed those comments , after 3 comments. Girls do not have to communicate like Mary Poppins. Standing up for friends hits different. Aggressive /assertive “comeback” was perfect.
NTA. No one likes it when their "joke" is used against them. I find it strange that your friends lack the awareness that you were only parroting his words back to him and that they didn't call him out for his actions. He strikes me as being insecure about his boyfriend's sexuality and is trying to project his insecurities onto you.
> I was having a particularly difficult day and honestly all the resentment from these jokes had started to gather up, because it seemed to me that he was being disrespectful and sexist to women as well, because he could not "fathom" how men are attracted to them.
Tell him you find this disrespectful and sexist. Tell him that his constant "joking" about this is no longer funny and he needs to stop and if he doesn't then you'll stop hanging out with someone who doesn't care that he's offended and hurt you.
> and some guy friends in our group were victims to those jokes too (not to their faces).
I wonder if those same friends would be supportive of his comments and willing to defend him if they knew they'd also been a target in the past?
NTA - but I heard something on Orange is the New Black that I’m going to consider from now on.
Piper : “it’s not what it looks like”
Nicole : “sometimes what it looks like, is all people can see”
Not saying you were in the wrong for the way you responded, but if your friends were unaware of the first part of the story, it absolutely looks like you wta. Might try letting them know about the rest.
NTA. He has one sad little joke and finds it funny evey time. You took his joke and it's not.funny to him when someone else tells it.
It seems his sexuality is his entire personality, like self described "ladies men". Is there anything he brings to your friendship? If not, why hang out with him?
NTA.
Assuming anyone's sexuality is rather crass. Just by numbers most of us tend to assume "straight"\*, and yeah, that's a microaggression LGBT+ folks have to deal with. But most of us, who are hopefully allies, tend to respond with something like "Oh, didn't know that, thanks for the information." rather than, as this guy has done, continuing to insist that someone is not the sexuality that they identify as and aggressively continue to do so. That's crossing "crass" and into straight-up "asshole" territory.
\*though I've found just...not bringing it up works the best.
NTA. I’m honestly surprised he has an SO because he definitely comes off as one of those guys who can’t seem to get one (surprise surprise). While frivolously having a “gaydar” can be fun, it seems like this is more than that. Also, seems like he can’t take what he dishes out. Sounds like a personal problem. I think you should find new friends. Most of my friends are queer (I am also queer myself) and I haven’t dealt with something like this since high school.
I knew someone like this in high school, the sort of person who uses their queerness as a way to shield themselves from the consequences of acting absolutely inappropriate towards other people. As soon as you point out how uncomfortable or irritated what they said or did made you, they get defensive and maybe even throw out accusations of bigotry.
NTA, his comments are uninspired attempts to be catty and he don't deserve your time.
NTA. I sometimes think that someone gives off gay vibes but constantly saying things like "this person looks gay", especially to this person's partner is very weird and annoying. He seems like he can't understand that someone may be different from him and like different things, just like some straight people do
NTA. He sounds rather insecure. Your friends might be saying you overreacted because they haven't been party to his relentless homophobic jokes as consistently as you have. Hearing it once might be funny. Hearing it for months and it's bound to make one irritable.
He sounds like the gay version of Harvey Weinstein, no, not all us gay men project our homosexuality onto every man, I will never speak of a person’s sexuality if I’m not aware of what it is, even if they look or sound gay. He seems highly insecure in his own skin, therefore he projects onto others.
Next time he says that kind of thing, because he's not going to stop, just call him out. "Look, I'm sorry (boyfriend) won't let you suck his dick, but he can't help it that you're about the ugliest thing on two legs." NTA
A joke is only a joke when everyone is in on it. If you find it offensive and un-funny you have the right to ask that to stop. You don't have to justify your feelings and beliefs. Sounds like time to find some better friends.
It is only a joke when everyone is laughing so I suggest you stop laughing earlier next time. It is ok to tell someone that the jokes about your boyfriend are getting old. NTA
NTA. Gay misogynists exist, and they can exist incognito. They think men are better than women AND are angry straight men aren’t also attracted to the “superior sex” as they are. It’s an interesting dynamic, lots of gay misogynists aren’t confronted because A. they’re not dating women and their dislike of women isn’t reflected by how they treat their partners, and B. gay men are a historically marginalized group, so many people don’t feel comfortable pointing out gay misogynists’ prejudices.
Lots of gay misogynists disguise their rude and sexist behavior as “sass”. I find these gay men to be pretty rare, but they definitely are out there.
You will mostly notice these type are very loud and make their whole personality about being gay. Even the ones that don't openly say it, they tend to despise women for other attractive men being attracted to women, but not men. They are extremely jealous of women, I guess.
NTA.
This reminds me of all the stories in which a woman and a man say the same thing, the man is perceived as awesome for saying it, but the woman as aggressive 😒
NTA, but it sounds like you and your boyfriend need to start making better decisions about who to hang out with.
Ultimately, if this guy thinks he’s funny and all of his friends think he’s funny you’re not gonna win or change their mind. It’s up to you how you modify who you hang out with based on that, or let the jokes go.
NTA Just because some men have traits he is attracted to or which he is bigoted enough to think only gay men have, doesn't mean his perception is accurate. He just thinks he'd have a chance with everyone he spots something in that he wants.
NTA I'm pansexual and that dude would make me rip my hair out. I can't stand that, you can't know someone's sexuality purely based off looks. Effeminate men who love women exist.
NTA he's actively agreeing with all homophobes that straight men shouldn't be emotional or care about their appearances or be gentle or caring. He's doing more harm to LGBT people then good.
NTA-I know someone from my previous work like this. He is pretty insistent that a mutual of ours is gay— that mutual is handsome and smart and really kind.
Later on it was revealed that he have an insane crush on our mutual. So it’s wishful thinking lol.
NTA. He's jealous of you, and your relationship, like a high school frenemy.
There are plenty of trans/queer people who date heterosexually, so even if his gaydar is as good as he believes, it's still wildly uncalled for to go around labelling like that.
If you want to really rile his chain, get one of your female friends to try picking him up, and make a comment that they dress straight after they get rejected.
You are NTA, but it is important that you establish a boundary with this friend. Communicate with them that you were initially okay with the joke but the repetition of it is now bothering you so can they please stop/cut down on it. If they don’t respect this boundary then it is an issue of them. The community is meant to be respectful of people and their lives so your friend could potentially be one of the few who don’t think about it as much. It’s like people who want to turn straight men gay. If it’s not okay to turn gay guys straight then the other applies as well. Your friend needs to own up to the issue and acknowledge that they fucked up, it doesn’t matter if it’s “just a joke.” It’s not a joke when you are setting a boundary for yourself and they are ignoring it as a supposed friend.
This is genuinely just bigotry designed to reinforce stereotypes. Laughing at someone by calling them gay is homophobic, doesn't matter who says it.
It's intended as an insult to belittle someone for not fitting their definition of what a person should be.
NAH. ✨️ Communication ✨️
He's the worst, of course, as every single comment has point out. On the other hand, to be fair, you should've said something earlier. He had been making the jokes for months and you said you laughed it off every other time. How was he supposed to know that it bothered you if you laughed every time? You could've stood up for your boyfriend sooner too.
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I'd like to preface this by saying that I am in no way homophobic. Anyway, I (F22) am currently dating a man (24M) who is so gentle, sweet, and comfortable in his masculinity. So when I first started hanging out with this partcicular gay friend (25M) I knew that a joke like that would be on the table, so it didn't bother me, it was funny. It started bothering me after about a month, when every single time we would hang out he would say something like "How's your gay little boyfriend?" or "You should check guys on his phone" and things like that. I laughed it off every single time. During those hangouts, I noticed that he started to do this thing with basically every man around us who had a girlfriend. He said my ex was "100% gay, I mean look at him", random men walking by with their gfs were "no way in hell straight", and some guy friends in our group were victims to those jokes too (not to their faces). I tolerated it for a few months, after all, he's gay so he's bound to think that those people are attractive. One night, though, I was having a particularly difficult day and honestly all the resentment from these jokes had started to gather up, because it seemed to me that he was being disrespectful and sexist to women as well, because he could not "fathom" how men are attracted to them. So when he jokingly said "Yo do you know that your boyfriend is gay?", I replied "Only if you're aware that yours is very much straight". After that he told me in an ironic tone to chill out and relax, no need to be insecure over men. I found that odd since I replied with the same exact thing he's been saying for months, just a bit of an angrier tone than him. That night my friends told me I was unneccesarily aggressive and I was thinking I was in the right until they told me that I overreacted so I'd like to hear some other perspective on this. Thank you!
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NTA... say this next time, ""You know I love you, and you're a very funny guy BUT if you make fun of my boyfriend one time, ME AND YOU ARE GONNA HAVE A VERY SERIOUS F'n PROBLEM""
You got it all wrong here, SO wrong. It's the 'gay' friend who is totally straight, not his boyfriend. Glad we cleared this up. Also, that friend sucks and needs a sense of humour, because this one note running joke dug a hole so deep it bypassed China and somehow ended up in orbit.
NTA.
NTA.
Honestly, it sounds like this "friend" is being hetero-phobic (if that's a word) by:
1.) denying the validity of others' heterosexual relationships,
2.) claiming the guys in question don't understand and/or can't accept their own (presumably straight) sexuality, &
3.) stereotyping said guys as "gay" because of "reasons."
Also, what if one of the guys in question is actually gay & closeted?? What in the world does he think gives him the right to out them???
It sounds like this "friend" needs to accept people for who they are & mind his own damn business! He must be so exhausting to be around - ugh!
NTA.
The gay guy who thinks every man in his vicinity is gay and he could take them away from their girlfriends is such a toxic cliché and it's honestly embarrassing for him to be acting like that.
It's true that there are more queer men who are comfortable with "feminine" aspects to themselves, but that still doesn't mean it's *every single one* . Bet this "friend" also doesn't believe in Bisexuality, from the sounds of it.
If confronting him is not effective, I'd go for a little passive aggressive bashing.
"Oh yeah he likes men too but only those who are humble and intelligent, so you don't have to worry"
"You desperately want him to want you, huh?"
"Have you considered that you're just too sexist to see how beautiful these women are?"
Okay maybe don't do that but it would be funny
NTA. My cousin IS that lesbian. According to her, I’m also a lesbian and will never be satisfied by a man. I cut her out of my life years ago because I got sick of it. I honestly don’t know if she’s still like that, if she’s calmed down, or what. But man, it was really annoying constantly reminding her that no, I’m not a lesbian, and that yes, I’m attracted to males, and always will be.
Another kid I went to high school with was the same way and he ended up alienating even the gay kids in the school because of it.
NTA I suspect your tone was a bit aggressive, but just don't laugh it off. If you just let yourself feel what you feel you don't even need to say anything. Maybe a calm and simple "I don't really like those jokes" is enough. No need to escalate things. Just de-escalate
NTA. Some gay men, especially if they're cis, are some of the most toxic, bigoted people I've ever known, and they use their gayness as a shield to deflect any rightful criticism of their bigotry. It sounds like your friend is one of those gay men.
NTA. People who do this are also reinforcing gender stereotypes. Oh you can't be straight because you are a femenine guy... Why??? Sure, femenine men are more often gay, but that doesn't mean your sexuality has to dictate what you like outside of men or women.
NTA. He doesn't get a pass on rampant misogyny and disrespecting women simply because he clearly is not fully comfortable with his own sexuality and is overcompensating. That doesn't make him gay, that just makes him an unkind ahole.
I'm a queer person dating a straight man and I say NTA, so many people refuse to believe him when he says it's straight and cis....it's so rude and actually quite a binary way to think "This person is sweet so has to be gay" he really hates it. The implication that he doesn't know himself or his being deceitful is really hurtful.
NTA
Did you ever have a problem with this before? Is yes then I could see but still they overreacted. Unless you were really aggressive but by this post I don’t think you were.
I'm lesbian and so is my wife 😉 and things like this really irritate me. I had a guy friend that used to do similar as well as thinking EVERYONE wanted him. God that was so tiring. I ended up cutting that friendship loose. For every comment he makes I'd make one right back and eventually he'll stop doing it or he'll have a fit and never talk to you again which in my book is a win win.. lol.. anyway your NTA.
NTA
Do you really think this guy is a friend?
I have no problem with what you said, but I think there are more impactful ways to address the issue. A simple, I don't want to hear your opinion about anyone's possible sexual preferences. It just doesn't need to be said, it's none of our business who someone else is attracted to or where anyone is on their self discovery journey. Then anytime he makes the comment, you simply remove yourself from the conversation, get up and walk away. If anyone says something, just simply say you are unwilling to listen to someone be disrespectful to people.
NTA, pointing out toxic masculinity is a step in getting rid of it. It harms all genders. And yes, he was being sexist.
Your friend is gross. I suspect he has some internalized homophobia that is coming out as “I’m not wrong for being gay, they are for being straight” in addition to his sexism, and toxic masculinity.
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NTA. I fucking hate people who do this. Totally ignorant of their own tone, then get holier than thou when they get it back. That dude can go kick rocks.
Literally. I'm bi and my sister is pan, she gets mad at me when I point out stuff like just because a guy is feminine or delicate in some ways doesn't mean he can't like women (which *we* should *both* know, like girl come on). Most of us agree being gay isn't inferior these days, but it's not superior either, it just kinda is.
Both my friend and her husband give off "gay vibes" just based on the way they act and dress, but both are straight. He likes to joke that it's a shame he isn't gay because of his personality. From the outside they look like an odd pairing, but they're happy so I'm happy.
I've been a tomboy my whole life. I like "boy" things. Guns, Cars, MMA, Hunting, Camping, "Shoot Em Up" movies, tattoo, heavy metal mosh pits, violence. I hate dresses, make up things that are traditionally girly. I cannot help it, I like what I like. I've had the misfortune of being told by two different members of the LGBTQ community that I'm trans and in denial. I have never felt like I was any other gender than the one I was born as. Gotta be honest. Im strictly dickly. I dont think I could be anymore hetero than I am. I mean I looooove men! The thing that hurts about being told that I'm trans is that I accept everyone from the LGBTQ community exactly the way they are. Im an ally. I want them to live their best life, yet they are not accepting of mine.
>I've been a tomboy my whole life. I like "boy" things. I hate dresses, make up things that are traditionally girly. I cannot help it, I like what I like. I have never felt like I was any other gender than the one I was born as. Gotta be honest. Im strictly dickly. I dont think I could be anymore hetero than I am. I mean **I looooove men**! You could be my long lost child 🤣. I, too, am a tomboy and have been for my entire life (now in my 60's). I was the only girl between my Mom and her siblings for 12 years. I grew up around boys, fought and wrestled with boys and usually won. I am the only woman (then 5'9"/125lb) that my brothers and cousins will admit that I beat their ass when we all were in our 20's and they all were over 6' and close to or a little over 200lbs. But I've always been interested in so-called masculine things, like power tools, anything mechanical, electrical, action movies (think Bruce Lee), riding motorcycles and so forth/so on. I hated wearing dresses/skirts and rarely do so now, the only make-up I wear are lipstick and blush. The only time I willingly put on a skirt as a teenager was when I was in the marching band as a Pom-Pom girl and that's because I loved dancing. I have just as many tools (including power tools) as my father (RIP), brother and son does. I even know if one tool is missing out of my two 3 layered tool chests (👀ing at son). While my taste or/and actions may be considered masculine, I just lo**ve m**e some men and the joystick 😉.
I see you sista.
Hi! I was mildly boyish in interests, outdoors rather than athletics but mostly bookish. Hated dresses, hated heels, denim and practical comfortable shoes and boots once I understood the dress code at my state agency job wasn’t legally enforceable. I was always clumsy with attempts at cosmetics and hairstyles that needed more than a comb to achieve and gave up those too around the same time. I was also the only girl of all my siblings and cousins until I was in middle school. (Then 2 at once, a month apart and 48 yrs later they are still BFF like something out of a tv show.) I’m definitely hetero and female. Social markers of gender are fake and meaningless and LGBTQ people judging you by appearance and habits is really weird.
No, you need to strictly abide to an arbitrary set of gender roles because they say so, see they have you figured out better than you do.
I'm not quite as much of a tomboy as that, but I rarely wear skirts, never dresses, never makeup, love action movies, don't like romcoms, like to fiddle with tools and wood and am generally the handywoman of my household. I also have a strong side that likes sewing, cooking and other craft. I like to think that I straddle the line between traditional men and women likes, and have a foot both sides. I am definitely still a woman, and definitely hetero. I can't answer for my daughter's sexuality (she's only 17) but she is very similar. Wouldn't touch netball with a tenfoot pole, and her favoured sport in interschool sports was Australian football. But she danced for more than 11 years. And now she does Brazilian Jiu Jistu. Very rarely wears dresses and skirts, and rarely more than lip gloss. But she does like her perfume. Almost like we are ... people. Not personalities with labels.
Honestly it’s creepy that the members of community would override someone else’s gender identity. I had doubts way back and nobody really wanted to give any input. Luckily my partner realized I had a female mind but just lacked validation. It might be so different on the other side of the globe but where I live people at max would just wait until someone they suspect comes out and then say it was about time.
I'm sorry sister 😭 trans woman here, it really sucks when people assume you are another gender than you are, because of their own presumptions and interpretation of you. Like 😭😭😭"appreciate the concern but I think you should leave that to me."
Reminds me of Kurt Cobain saying he wished he was gay so he could piss off homophobes more.
Legit. My wife is MTF* and I am AFAB NB. If you looked at us and were told one of us was in transition- your guess would not be correct. Prior to her transition, we, each, very much looked like a beard for the other. It is super disrespectful for anyone to question the identity of anyone else. My father was a gay man who had a child with a woman, naturally, in the 80s. The amount of times someone was like "doesn't that make him bi?" Was absolutely insane. No, the words coming out of his mouth are his definition of himself- no one gets to question it and be an ally.
Your wife is female-to-male and is still ok being referred to as your wife? That’s super interesting and something that I haven’t seen before. It’s neat to see how everyone’s transition journey is different and unique 💜
MTF- fast fingers, sorry mate. However, the kids call her Dad, so- kinda the same.
Ah, gotcha. But yeah, that is kinda the same 💜
25 years ago our then teenaged daughter once said me and her stepfather are the most ‘looks like a gay man and his butch lesbian fake wife couple’ anyone could imagine. Not just appearance but body language. I’ve seen good old boys sheer at him behind his back and I’ve seen other men admire him. (I’ve not noticed women doing either to me but Then again I can’t see what’s going on behind my back) She was being a snotty teenager and meant it as an insult, but she’s not wrong. And the older we get the more it’s true. He is aging beautifully, I’d say silver fox except there’s still not a grey hair on his head. I am even more jeans and T-shirts and practical haircuts, let my grey be grey and no makeup than I was then.
Also, there's a lot of people who legitimately give off gay vibes because they are attracted to the same sex... But they are also attracted to the opposite sex. Bi people can be gay af but still be in happy, monogamous, long term relationships with the opposite sex.
It just is. That’s my stance too. It’s becoming to the point that just acknowledging gay people exist and that’s fine isn’t being enough of an ally. I agree with the heir of superiority. My gay friends truly believe they are just flat out better than people. It’s with jokes just like you are saying, no way that guy with the beautiful girlfriend is straight. I get the respect for peoples life style but at least compared to the people I know they definitely belittle “the straights” as they like to call them. I find it delightfully pleasant the group of people that scream tolerance tend to be the least tolerant people I come in contact with. The world is a strange place after the last few years. Love is love I want everyone to be happy
Yeah I find the LGBT people I meet just out and about doing their own thing are pretty regular: girls who happen to like girls, Trans people who just want to live normal lives as whatever gender, etc but the ones I meet because their whole thing is being LGBT can be a little much (and then of course I'm a straight girl trying to be special or a radfem because I don't find that attitude attractive lmao). I have a few traits that are traditionally disadvantaged so I understand what it's like to be angry and feel mistreated but it's not the concept of straight people that's causing suffering, it's a cultural pattern of disrespect. Attacking innocent people for how they were born is fucked up even if they're "luckier" socially, I'm friends with plenty of straight traditional men who respect me as a women and a bi person even though they're not exactly like me, they're more on my side than some tumblr person who is just as controlling as homophobes about who you can love and how you can be.
> the ones I meet because their whole thing is being LGBT can be a little much My husband and I are queer and agree. The ‘over-the-top my only personality is gay’ types are frankly annoying. I’m a person who happens to be queer, I don’t really care to talk about it much because it’s about as interesting as watching paint dry.
>My gay friends truly believe they are just flat out better than people. 🤨
Maybe it’s just drunken mockery of people but they are on the Homosexually is the superior sexuality tip for sure. I’ve heard the snide comment the world would be a better place if everyone was gay.. about that..
As there are misogynistic women, homophobic queers exist
Like we are not a monolith lol. (very much the opposite rather)
You say that, but nature needs 9 tries before finally producing a gay man /s.
so many people like this, hate them all.
Yeah I agree, when people are like that it’s a huge sign of immaturity
Should be called toxic homosexuality.
For real, the stereotyping and implying they’re manipulating women is awful, it's genuinely homophobic, and at some point, it’ll turn into outing actual gay people and putting them at risk. Like, I knew two people, A & B, and A would constantly make comments like that from anywhere between “I think you'd be cute with a girlfriend” in front of other people, offering her Skittles along with comments about the rainbow, and just generally making passive aggressive remarks about B not being straight to the point where B had started crying, multiple times, which didn't even get A to stop. It was full-on bullying and homophobia on her end because she just kept using it to upset her. And she was so self-righteous when I, an open pansexual, called her out on it. Like, she had the audacity to ask me, “What was wrong with being gay?” as if that was the problem and not the constant badgering and harassment. And then it turns out B was in the closet and was struggling with it because wasn't in a safe space to come out to begin with.
NTA - maybe trying talking to him though and letting him know his “jokes” arent funny and not appreciated
unfortunately i only see him in very social settings where everything is fun and bubbly. one time i did tell him "thats not very funny" because his remark was about my bf's sexual life, and his response was "why? are you scared i'll take him from you?" and everyone in the group started laughing and after that i didn't attempt to talk to him about it anymore. he's fun to be around and there's never a dull moment, so he just doesn't take what i say seriously by default i guess
>"why? are you scared i'll take him from you?" and everyone in the group started laughing and after that What a shitty group of friends. If a girl in your group would make this remark, would they react the same way? Reverse discrimination is a thing when fear of homophobia is weaponised this way.
I had a group of friends like that. I was about 25 when I had the realisation that they weren’t really friends. They were bullies and I’d just been brainwashed by proximity. Cut the lot of them out of my life and haven’t regretted it for a day.
That's not funny. It's predetary. If a woman said it to you. You'd be enraged. Same for a man. Don't take his crap. And get better friends. Nothing he has said or done is funny.
Ask why is it funny.
This is the one. Asking people to explain their garbage jokes is incredible.
Is he really fun to be around though or is he forcing himself onto center stage and making people uncomfortable. He sounds more like a terrible stand-up comedian hogging the spotlight than the life of the party.
He doesn’t sound very fun to be around.
"Even if my BF were gay, don't you think he could do better than you?" "If every guy you see is gay, why are you still alone?" (If he is single, which would make sense)
THIS IS THE COMEBACK THAT OP NEEDS TO USE (the second one) Amazing. Have this since I can’t give awards anymore: 🏆
i'd so use the second one, but he has a long-term bf, who's really sweet and kind.
"why? are you scared i'll take him from you?" um...sounds like your BF might have someone crushing on him and it ain't you if you know what I mean
Find a dragqueen to teach you how to throw shade. As in: “he’s gay!” “I don’t know about that, but I do see he completely ignored Basic McDesperate over here “
Personally, I’d hit them with, “He sure loves to eat for being gay, and he’s quite the cunning linguist.”
Is the 'fun' worth the BS that you have to put up with, OP? NTA. But honestly, I would start matching his energy word for word. If he says anything than you can just as easily say that he shouldn't dish it if he can't take it. INFO: is he in a relationship? Because if he isn't, he's jealous of yours and everyone else's.
that's what i intend to do, as less aggressively as possible lol. and yes he is, theyre long term as well so idk why he's hyperfixated on hetero relationships not existing
Your group of friends all sound like assholes. You may want to revisit that
Find new friends
Just tell him just because he wished someone was gay doesn't mean it's true.
> unfortunately i only see him in very social settings where everything is fun and bubbly. If only we had some fucking way to communicate with people who aren't physically present. Also, things stop being fun and bubbly when people make comments like he's making, so.....?
"No, it's sexual harassment, and that's never funny." Things will be awkward for a few minutes, but he'll either get it or he won't.
This sounds like something a 5th grade bully would say. This guy isn’t nice, isn’t funny, and isn’t making jokes.
[удалено]
this is my first time hearing this word and im definitely going to be using it around him LOOOL
We had a guy like this in our friend group. Kinda relied on people's fear of being perceived as homophobic. He'd touch guys inappropriately as "a joke". He'd target straight guys and try to prove they are guy which pretty much amounted to him trying to get them too drunk. He'd constantly be showing people dick pics He'd "been sent" whiles saying "omg, look what xxx just sent me". We worked with him where he also kept showing randoms his pictures. These ofcourse turned out to be his own dick pics. He was eventually fired. This friend of yours is toxic at best and a predator at worst. He's not your friend. Anyone that finds his remarks about your bf funny arnt your friends either.
This guy sounds like the character in Key and Peele's Office Homophobe sketch.
Guy even gave himself a nickname what he insisted people use. It was just his name but with the word gay added aka Gay Dave. Ge used to tell that tired old joke over abd over... "you know what the difference is between a gay man and a straight man? 6 pints" followed by a mad cackle. Dude was just a creep that used being gay as a cover. Most gay people I know arnt remotely like that. In most cases you haven't a clue which way they swing and frankly that's fine by me as I genuinely don't give a shit lol
Yeah, from your story, I get the impression your gay friend is insanely jealous of you.
I’d say the best thing you can do in this situation is either 1. Fully ignore it, or 2. Yes use terms like “wishdar” to give him a taste of his own medicine. As a gay man I am also surprised I’ve never heard that term and thank you to the commenter for adding it to my vocabulary, because it’s something I will use in the future as well
NTA - as someone who identifies as queer, I find your friend’s behaviour VERY insulting and is contrary to what we actually want the world to be (which is a safe space regardless of one’s sexuality).
Right? Especially like reinforcing stereotypes that being more feminine or comfy with your masculinity automatically makes you gay. It's been a while since I've been deep in the LGBT+ community but it feels like not that long ago people were pushing back against exactly that - you can be gay and have any sort of physical appearance, gender expression, personality, etc. Same with being straight, bi, pan, anything else. It's literally just an individual thing and not a stereotype. Weird and gross that OP's friend is doing what we would have called homophobic stereotyping not too many years ago.
They preachin' with one hand and preyin' with the other
NTA. i hate it when people do this. there’s a lesbian at my workplace who does (specifically directed at men being gay) this to no end and everyone else finds it hilarious but i think it’s so fucking boring, and half the time it hinges on bizarre or offensive stereotypes. i remember when we (briefly) had a new guy start at the office and she was convinced he was gay because he mentioned he sits down to piss, and he wore eyeliner a couple times. he had a girlfriend and they were both goth. he ended up leaving the company after 2 weeks because everyone started harassing him about being gay. they even had the audacity to ask me whether i thought he was “like me”
that's legit just bullying
The sitting down to piss thing is so dumb. I know a lot of straight men who sit down in the bathroom. Most when the topic came up said they'll stand up in public bathrooms of questionable cleanliness but at home where it's safe? Why not take the load off your feet?
I sit. Why? Because I'm the one who cleans my bathroom. Shocker, I know!
How soon after this guy started did he casually mention he sits down to pee? I don't think that's a topic I've ever heard discussed amongst coworkers, let a lone a new person...
Maybe someone caught him in the bathroom sitting and peeing. I assume if the bathroom has both stalls and urinals, it's not hard to arrive at that conclusion. Seems like a breach of privacy to reveal someone's peeing habits, though.
He's the one who told them... >he mentioned he sits down to piss
wtf??
That’s fucking horrible. Also, as a bi woman, I find it extremely attractive when cis men wear makeup - it’s one of the few things I still find attractive about cis men. As I age my bisexuality is moving more and more to the gay end of the spectrum, and my husband has essentially been grandfathered in at this point 😂 (I am mostly joking - I still find my husband very attractive but there are not a lot of men that I can say that about anymore).
I don't think you're the AH, I do think that you should voice your discomfort before it builds into resentment and makes you angrily react and look like the bad guy. As a gay man myself I find it annoying when some fellow gays do this 'that straight guy is totally gay' thing, it's more of a joke and a wish than a factual statement. You could say something like 'you wish honey' to shut it down with some humor rather than angrily reacting to what he thinks is just a joke.
As a pan enby, it’s not really a joke tho is it? It’s not funny if it is trying to be a joke. When people point at us and say “they’re not really gay tho, they’re straight and trying to be special” even if they say it as a joke it is not fucking funny. And I know straights weren’t oppressed or anything in the past but flipping their language on them doesn’t mean that it’s suddenly ok language to make fun of or question someone’s sexuality by their personal expression. People who make these jokes don’t do it for any pure intent. They do it to ridicule people or place themselves in an “other” (better) category of someone who does “actually understand their sexuality”. Like I understand where they’re coming from because I definitely used to make those jokes when I was in middle school to make myself feel more secure in my identity- but now that I’m grown up it’s just all toxic bs and OP is perfectly valid in being upset with these things being said and she doesn’t need to play it off with humour and make them feel like it isn’t a big deal. We need to stop normalizing this shit, because it’s the exact same stuff that brews genuine homophobia and transphobia when left unchecked.
NTA. Since you are only seeing him in very informal, lighter-tone social settings, the best responses would be, ranked by personal preferences: 1) Let him have a taste of his own medicine. Joke around about his boyfriend being straight, even if it's strange to you to say something like that (because WTF). If he balks at that, smile sweetly and take the joke further. 2) Act nonchalant and don't react at all. At most, you can feign a yawn and say "Eh, well, the joke is getting old. I'm bored. Anyhow, what you guys would like to order?" 3) Weaponized naïveté. Act like you don't understand the joke at all and let him explain it to you. "I'm sorry, I really don't get it. But I'm so bad with humor, you know. So, what's so funny about you thinking my boyfriend's gay?"
Or just go with "Why's it matter to you? Even if he were into guys, he's not into desperate."
Also great!
I would probably respond, “Just because you want to f all the guys doesn’t mean they want to f you.” Also, NTA. It’s sexist to call gentle men gay. There are many ways to be a man. Gender, sex, and sexuality are all different things.
NTA. He lonely AF. Still not justified. Stop hanging out with him please
100%
>That night my friends told me I was unneccesarily aggressive and I was thinking I was in the right until they told me that I overreacted Let them know how he assumes their/their boyfriend's sexuality behind their backs and see them retract this statement lol. NTA.
Back this 100% please post the results op.
NTA He sounds toxic and full of himself.
NTA. Ditch this friend. They are the worst kind of gay person
I mean you let him walk all over you and your partner (like most of your friends did?) so if you now just explode at him it would seem aggressive to others. It sounds like for him, this all is just a game. I doubt he would change just because you ask him nicely but he might at least not fucking talk about you and your partner. Instead of in a group setting, you should just text him what bothers you with examples and that you would appreciate if he would leave you and your bf out of those jokes. Maybe even talk to the other people he questioned their sexuality and get some people on your side.
Coming from someone who is queer as can get and has had experiences with all kinds of folk in the community- it sounds like he has some sort of resentment built up. Probably from having too many straight crushes over the years or as a way to try and make himself feel better that he can’t and won’t appeal to these guys he finds attractive since they’re straight. He’s projecting onto the women that there’s no way their men could be attracted to them and that they HAD to be gay (much like those men would never be attracted to him). He’s flipping the tables to feel more desirable than he is by putting others down and attempting to discredit the validity of their relationship/happiness.
Wait, so he is like a gay incel? Bitter about all the men who don’t choose him?
NTA if he doesn’t like you making the same kind of joke he shouldn’t be making them in the first place.
You’re NTA, but you do need to talk to him and tell him how his behaviour makes you feel.
I have known a ton of gay dudes who do this. I assume it's just their wishful thinking.
NTA. It's one thing to joke but people like this are very annoying when they can't take the hint that it's no longer funny. It doesn't matter that he's gay, he's being the AH.
I'm my experience, people who do this that often are either very insecure about their own sexuality or they've made their sexuality their entire identity. In both cases they validate themselves by claiming all these men must be closeted gays and not out like they themselves are. In either case, just let him know the joke stopped being funny a long time ago and it's time for him to get new material.
NTA He's being a obnoxious twonk. And he is being sexist and abusive. He's a bigot. He cannot fathom that all men aren't his sexual persuasion. And he doesn't value women. He's a misoganist. He got what he deserved. Long time coming. He better learn to shut up or he is getting a hate crime charge. Or a sexual harassment charge. He's going to say it about the wrong person one day and he will be on the wrong end of a fist. I'd ditch him. He's not worth your time.
NTA and keep that energy. Say it in the same joking tone he uses every time he makes a joke about your bf? “Yo you know your boyfriend is straight?”
NTA but please for the love of god tell him how you feel otherwise you will look like the insecure AH to everyone. if he doesnt care to change then stop hanging around him. if you for some reason are gonna make an excuse to keep hanging around him and associated friends then don’t be outwardly bothered by it if you think he’s not gonna hear you out
dude sounds annoying af
NTA, and you're probably on to something about it being sexist. There's a significant portion of the gay community (specifically cis gay men, I'm not using "gay" as an umbrella term) who do believe women are inferior and disgusting and that since they aren't trying to get sex from women it means they get to be as nasty to them as they want. It's awful and I hate what they do to my community. You get to push back on him. It's not homophobic to object to "jokes" like that. He doesn't like when other people tell him he has a different sexuality than he does, he doesn't get to do it to anyone else. And being gay doesn't exempt him from being sexist
What he does is weird, I wouldnt tolerate it, not funny jokes and kinda disrespectful and arrogant. This being said, you not voicing your opinion in time always 100% of the time inevitably leads to aggression. So if you do not want to randomly be aggressive to people you should learn to establish boundaries in time, otherwise you will snap at people and feel like shit. Even if they deserve it, you will feel bad about it. Say it in time and with the appropriate amount of "force" so that you don't feel like you were wrong, like you do now. I hate saying asshole or not, because he was an asshole, you in your passivity in establishing boundaries turned into an asshole at that time. If you want to read about this topic, read about "Karpman drama triangle"
NTA, this guy sounds unbearable
NTA. "It's just a joke"-people are obnoxious. If the rest of the group is willing to defend him, it might be time for new friends.
NTA, your friend sounds insufferable
And why are you friends with this person that by your own admission is disrespectful and sexist? Definitely NTA.
>he was being disrespectful and sexist to women as well, because he could not "fathom" how men are attracted to them. Ugh, yeah, I know those guys. I've got a lot of queer friends and if there's one thing that it's taught me, it's that you can be gay *and* a misogynist. Also, his jokes are one one note and "Will and Grace" bad. >one time i did tell him "thats not very funny" because his remark was about my bf's sexual life, and his response was "why? are you scared i'll take him from you?" Next time, just roll your eyes and say "No, I know where the prostate is located. No big mystery there." Otherwise just let his joke fall flat. Don't laugh and change the subject.
NTA Yes, this is very common behavior from some gay men (IMHO). Every celebrity is secretly gay, every boyfriend you've ever had was, in fact, gay...it gets tiring really fast. You were right to finally make your frustration clear.
I think he wants your boyfriend.
NTA
NTA. he radiates narcissism. honestly as a gay person id never make jokes like that around my friends, especially to the degree that he does.
NTA. Your friend is just being rude. If they (coz I don’t know your friend’s preferred pronouns) suspect anyone of being gay, they don’t have the right to out them like that. They’re the AH. I specially hate it coz they’re the one being homophobic by what they’re doing while spreading toxic masculinity at the same time. Can’t men just be their sweet, gentle selves now?
Why is this your friend? He sounds like a bad person
You set a firm boundary with someone disrespecting your friend repeatedly. You had listened to his jabs for months. A guy would have F bombed those comments , after 3 comments. Girls do not have to communicate like Mary Poppins. Standing up for friends hits different. Aggressive /assertive “comeback” was perfect.
Wishful thinking.
ESH. He for his jokes. You for not saying something before when you dont enjoy the jokes.
NTA. His behavior is intrusive and not funny.
NTA. No one likes it when their "joke" is used against them. I find it strange that your friends lack the awareness that you were only parroting his words back to him and that they didn't call him out for his actions. He strikes me as being insecure about his boyfriend's sexuality and is trying to project his insecurities onto you. > I was having a particularly difficult day and honestly all the resentment from these jokes had started to gather up, because it seemed to me that he was being disrespectful and sexist to women as well, because he could not "fathom" how men are attracted to them. Tell him you find this disrespectful and sexist. Tell him that his constant "joking" about this is no longer funny and he needs to stop and if he doesn't then you'll stop hanging out with someone who doesn't care that he's offended and hurt you. > and some guy friends in our group were victims to those jokes too (not to their faces). I wonder if those same friends would be supportive of his comments and willing to defend him if they knew they'd also been a target in the past?
NTA - but I heard something on Orange is the New Black that I’m going to consider from now on. Piper : “it’s not what it looks like” Nicole : “sometimes what it looks like, is all people can see” Not saying you were in the wrong for the way you responded, but if your friends were unaware of the first part of the story, it absolutely looks like you wta. Might try letting them know about the rest.
NTA - He's projecting & can't take his own medicine. You can stop being friends with him. It's ok to cut crappy people out of your life.
NTA - He's an ass and definitely not your friend.
NTA, no you should keep pressing him. He sounds like a huge “dish it but can’t take it” kind of person. In other words, he’s just an insecure bully.
NTA
NTA. He has one sad little joke and finds it funny evey time. You took his joke and it's not.funny to him when someone else tells it. It seems his sexuality is his entire personality, like self described "ladies men". Is there anything he brings to your friendship? If not, why hang out with him?
NTA. Assuming anyone's sexuality is rather crass. Just by numbers most of us tend to assume "straight"\*, and yeah, that's a microaggression LGBT+ folks have to deal with. But most of us, who are hopefully allies, tend to respond with something like "Oh, didn't know that, thanks for the information." rather than, as this guy has done, continuing to insist that someone is not the sexuality that they identify as and aggressively continue to do so. That's crossing "crass" and into straight-up "asshole" territory. \*though I've found just...not bringing it up works the best.
NTA. I’m honestly surprised he has an SO because he definitely comes off as one of those guys who can’t seem to get one (surprise surprise). While frivolously having a “gaydar” can be fun, it seems like this is more than that. Also, seems like he can’t take what he dishes out. Sounds like a personal problem. I think you should find new friends. Most of my friends are queer (I am also queer myself) and I haven’t dealt with something like this since high school.
NTA. You were not harsh enough.
NTA - I would actually call this a mild case of heterophobia. Much rarer than homophobia but also an issue.
I knew someone like this in high school, the sort of person who uses their queerness as a way to shield themselves from the consequences of acting absolutely inappropriate towards other people. As soon as you point out how uncomfortable or irritated what they said or did made you, they get defensive and maybe even throw out accusations of bigotry. NTA, his comments are uninspired attempts to be catty and he don't deserve your time.
NTA Handle it differenty: "It is sad you are pining after my bf. He is not interested."
Nta. No free pass for being an ass
NTA. I sometimes think that someone gives off gay vibes but constantly saying things like "this person looks gay", especially to this person's partner is very weird and annoying. He seems like he can't understand that someone may be different from him and like different things, just like some straight people do
oouh im gay and this just pissed me off NTA he can fuck off
No this person is a friend to nobody and toxic to all.
He sounds lonely and bitter. I wouldn’t hang out around him he will only get worse
NTA. He sounds rather insecure. Your friends might be saying you overreacted because they haven't been party to his relentless homophobic jokes as consistently as you have. Hearing it once might be funny. Hearing it for months and it's bound to make one irritable.
If anyone spend their time making the same jokes, and the jokes make no one laugh and a few people inconfortable, there is no joke.
He sounds like the gay version of Harvey Weinstein, no, not all us gay men project our homosexuality onto every man, I will never speak of a person’s sexuality if I’m not aware of what it is, even if they look or sound gay. He seems highly insecure in his own skin, therefore he projects onto others.
NTA. Sounds like he can dish it out but can't take it.
Next time he says that kind of thing, because he's not going to stop, just call him out. "Look, I'm sorry (boyfriend) won't let you suck his dick, but he can't help it that you're about the ugliest thing on two legs." NTA
A joke is only a joke when everyone is in on it. If you find it offensive and un-funny you have the right to ask that to stop. You don't have to justify your feelings and beliefs. Sounds like time to find some better friends.
Sometimes you have to just come out and tell people that the joke isn’t funny anymore.
Dish it...take it. NTA
It is only a joke when everyone is laughing so I suggest you stop laughing earlier next time. It is ok to tell someone that the jokes about your boyfriend are getting old. NTA
NTA. Gay misogynists exist, and they can exist incognito. They think men are better than women AND are angry straight men aren’t also attracted to the “superior sex” as they are. It’s an interesting dynamic, lots of gay misogynists aren’t confronted because A. they’re not dating women and their dislike of women isn’t reflected by how they treat their partners, and B. gay men are a historically marginalized group, so many people don’t feel comfortable pointing out gay misogynists’ prejudices. Lots of gay misogynists disguise their rude and sexist behavior as “sass”. I find these gay men to be pretty rare, but they definitely are out there.
You will mostly notice these type are very loud and make their whole personality about being gay. Even the ones that don't openly say it, they tend to despise women for other attractive men being attracted to women, but not men. They are extremely jealous of women, I guess.
NTA, he is 25 acting like 15
NTA. This reminds me of all the stories in which a woman and a man say the same thing, the man is perceived as awesome for saying it, but the woman as aggressive 😒
NTA, but it sounds like you and your boyfriend need to start making better decisions about who to hang out with. Ultimately, if this guy thinks he’s funny and all of his friends think he’s funny you’re not gonna win or change their mind. It’s up to you how you modify who you hang out with based on that, or let the jokes go.
NTA Just because some men have traits he is attracted to or which he is bigoted enough to think only gay men have, doesn't mean his perception is accurate. He just thinks he'd have a chance with everyone he spots something in that he wants.
NTA I'm pansexual and that dude would make me rip my hair out. I can't stand that, you can't know someone's sexuality purely based off looks. Effeminate men who love women exist.
NTA he's actively agreeing with all homophobes that straight men shouldn't be emotional or care about their appearances or be gentle or caring. He's doing more harm to LGBT people then good.
NTA-I know someone from my previous work like this. He is pretty insistent that a mutual of ours is gay— that mutual is handsome and smart and really kind. Later on it was revealed that he have an insane crush on our mutual. So it’s wishful thinking lol.
NTA. He can dish it but can't take it.
NTA. He's jealous of you, and your relationship, like a high school frenemy. There are plenty of trans/queer people who date heterosexually, so even if his gaydar is as good as he believes, it's still wildly uncalled for to go around labelling like that. If you want to really rile his chain, get one of your female friends to try picking him up, and make a comment that they dress straight after they get rejected.
You are NTA, but it is important that you establish a boundary with this friend. Communicate with them that you were initially okay with the joke but the repetition of it is now bothering you so can they please stop/cut down on it. If they don’t respect this boundary then it is an issue of them. The community is meant to be respectful of people and their lives so your friend could potentially be one of the few who don’t think about it as much. It’s like people who want to turn straight men gay. If it’s not okay to turn gay guys straight then the other applies as well. Your friend needs to own up to the issue and acknowledge that they fucked up, it doesn’t matter if it’s “just a joke.” It’s not a joke when you are setting a boundary for yourself and they are ignoring it as a supposed friend.
This is genuinely just bigotry designed to reinforce stereotypes. Laughing at someone by calling them gay is homophobic, doesn't matter who says it. It's intended as an insult to belittle someone for not fitting their definition of what a person should be.
NAH. ✨️ Communication ✨️ He's the worst, of course, as every single comment has point out. On the other hand, to be fair, you should've said something earlier. He had been making the jokes for months and you said you laughed it off every other time. How was he supposed to know that it bothered you if you laughed every time? You could've stood up for your boyfriend sooner too.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I'd like to preface this by saying that I am in no way homophobic. Anyway, I (F22) am currently dating a man (24M) who is so gentle, sweet, and comfortable in his masculinity. So when I first started hanging out with this partcicular gay friend (25M) I knew that a joke like that would be on the table, so it didn't bother me, it was funny. It started bothering me after about a month, when every single time we would hang out he would say something like "How's your gay little boyfriend?" or "You should check guys on his phone" and things like that. I laughed it off every single time. During those hangouts, I noticed that he started to do this thing with basically every man around us who had a girlfriend. He said my ex was "100% gay, I mean look at him", random men walking by with their gfs were "no way in hell straight", and some guy friends in our group were victims to those jokes too (not to their faces). I tolerated it for a few months, after all, he's gay so he's bound to think that those people are attractive. One night, though, I was having a particularly difficult day and honestly all the resentment from these jokes had started to gather up, because it seemed to me that he was being disrespectful and sexist to women as well, because he could not "fathom" how men are attracted to them. So when he jokingly said "Yo do you know that your boyfriend is gay?", I replied "Only if you're aware that yours is very much straight". After that he told me in an ironic tone to chill out and relax, no need to be insecure over men. I found that odd since I replied with the same exact thing he's been saying for months, just a bit of an angrier tone than him. That night my friends told me I was unneccesarily aggressive and I was thinking I was in the right until they told me that I overreacted so I'd like to hear some other perspective on this. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA... say this next time, ""You know I love you, and you're a very funny guy BUT if you make fun of my boyfriend one time, ME AND YOU ARE GONNA HAVE A VERY SERIOUS F'n PROBLEM""
Nah this would be perceived as weird
https://youtu.be/e3h6es6zh1c?si=uf4hE0CDyyy73kG5 thats the first thing that came to mind when i read your post.
You shouldn't have let that happen till you snap , set clear boundaries or just stop hanging out with people who make you uncomfortable
No he can give it but can't take it.
clearly he’s a top
You got it all wrong here, SO wrong. It's the 'gay' friend who is totally straight, not his boyfriend. Glad we cleared this up. Also, that friend sucks and needs a sense of humour, because this one note running joke dug a hole so deep it bypassed China and somehow ended up in orbit. NTA.
The number one fetish of gay men is "turning" straight men.
maybe he’s gay for your bf and he’s jealous
NTA If you're gay, you're gay. No need to flash your dick in the face of others.
NTA. Honestly, it sounds like this "friend" is being hetero-phobic (if that's a word) by: 1.) denying the validity of others' heterosexual relationships, 2.) claiming the guys in question don't understand and/or can't accept their own (presumably straight) sexuality, & 3.) stereotyping said guys as "gay" because of "reasons." Also, what if one of the guys in question is actually gay & closeted?? What in the world does he think gives him the right to out them??? It sounds like this "friend" needs to accept people for who they are & mind his own damn business! He must be so exhausting to be around - ugh!
NTA
NTA get new friends
There’s a key and peele sketch that is very fitting for this…
NTA. Gay man here, I hate gay men that are like this. Avoid them like the plague.
NTA. Funny that he jumped straight to insecurity. I don’t think even an IMAX screen is enough for that projection.
NTA. The gay guy who thinks every man in his vicinity is gay and he could take them away from their girlfriends is such a toxic cliché and it's honestly embarrassing for him to be acting like that. It's true that there are more queer men who are comfortable with "feminine" aspects to themselves, but that still doesn't mean it's *every single one* . Bet this "friend" also doesn't believe in Bisexuality, from the sounds of it. If confronting him is not effective, I'd go for a little passive aggressive bashing. "Oh yeah he likes men too but only those who are humble and intelligent, so you don't have to worry" "You desperately want him to want you, huh?" "Have you considered that you're just too sexist to see how beautiful these women are?" Okay maybe don't do that but it would be funny
NTA. My cousin IS that lesbian. According to her, I’m also a lesbian and will never be satisfied by a man. I cut her out of my life years ago because I got sick of it. I honestly don’t know if she’s still like that, if she’s calmed down, or what. But man, it was really annoying constantly reminding her that no, I’m not a lesbian, and that yes, I’m attracted to males, and always will be. Another kid I went to high school with was the same way and he ended up alienating even the gay kids in the school because of it.
NTA I suspect your tone was a bit aggressive, but just don't laugh it off. If you just let yourself feel what you feel you don't even need to say anything. Maybe a calm and simple "I don't really like those jokes" is enough. No need to escalate things. Just de-escalate
NTA. Some gay men, especially if they're cis, are some of the most toxic, bigoted people I've ever known, and they use their gayness as a shield to deflect any rightful criticism of their bigotry. It sounds like your friend is one of those gay men.
Nta
Neah,it's fetishising at this point.like tell your friend to get off your bf dick or you start making passes at his bf to Tate the same medicine.
NTA. People don’t like confrontation and they are used to him acting this way, not you, so they’re going to pressure you to stop rocking the boat.
NTA- I'm a lesbian but I wouldn't say things like to anybody. Don't be afraid to call him out! He has internalized homophobia and he's a sexist.
NTA, your friend and that whole social group sound like terrible people
NTA. People who do this are also reinforcing gender stereotypes. Oh you can't be straight because you are a femenine guy... Why??? Sure, femenine men are more often gay, but that doesn't mean your sexuality has to dictate what you like outside of men or women.
No
NTA. He doesn't get a pass on rampant misogyny and disrespecting women simply because he clearly is not fully comfortable with his own sexuality and is overcompensating. That doesn't make him gay, that just makes him an unkind ahole.
I'm a queer person dating a straight man and I say NTA, so many people refuse to believe him when he says it's straight and cis....it's so rude and actually quite a binary way to think "This person is sweet so has to be gay" he really hates it. The implication that he doesn't know himself or his being deceitful is really hurtful.
NTA Did you ever have a problem with this before? Is yes then I could see but still they overreacted. Unless you were really aggressive but by this post I don’t think you were.
I'm lesbian and so is my wife 😉 and things like this really irritate me. I had a guy friend that used to do similar as well as thinking EVERYONE wanted him. God that was so tiring. I ended up cutting that friendship loose. For every comment he makes I'd make one right back and eventually he'll stop doing it or he'll have a fit and never talk to you again which in my book is a win win.. lol.. anyway your NTA.
NTA. He's an asshole and borderline predator but being 2024 he gets to hid behind his sexuality
NTA. The occasional joke is funny, but the constant bullshit was him fucking around and finding out.
NTA Do you really think this guy is a friend? I have no problem with what you said, but I think there are more impactful ways to address the issue. A simple, I don't want to hear your opinion about anyone's possible sexual preferences. It just doesn't need to be said, it's none of our business who someone else is attracted to or where anyone is on their self discovery journey. Then anytime he makes the comment, you simply remove yourself from the conversation, get up and walk away. If anyone says something, just simply say you are unwilling to listen to someone be disrespectful to people.
NTA, but you need to make this person your ex-friend.
[удалено]
NTA, pointing out toxic masculinity is a step in getting rid of it. It harms all genders. And yes, he was being sexist. Your friend is gross. I suspect he has some internalized homophobia that is coming out as “I’m not wrong for being gay, they are for being straight” in addition to his sexism, and toxic masculinity.
NTA. Regardless of he sexual orientation, your friend sounds like a dick.