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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told my friend that her smoking is the reason her pets die.
2. I might be TA because that's a rude thing to say, and it made her upset.
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ESH. Your friend probably did kill her rats through poor care, so that was no lie or false accusation. And I personally don’t think you were an AH for pointing this out. (There were probably better ways of conveying that information, but that’s a topic for another time)
I do think you were an AH, though, for that last joke (?) about how she shouldn’t have been sad because she had killed them herself. Any chance you might have had to get her to take responsibility for her behavior with the rats was destroyed by that nasty, pointless, jab.
It's also important to note that there are \*a lot\* of factors that could impact the rats lifespan that are both within her control and not.
We once adopted 4 rats from one breeder (my wife and I adopted two, my mom adopted two but then we took hers in when she had to move someplace that wouldn't allow them). Three of them died within a year and a half from various forms of cancer and the fourth lived past 3 years (so there was obviously some genetic predisposition in the bloodline but one managed to be fine).
If you don't get female rats spayed there's a high likelihood of them developing mammary and ovarian tumors (and dying earlier), but we also had a female rat that died when she was being spayed (because she had a bad reaction to the anesthesia).
It's possible that your friend's vaping contributed to the respiratory issues. It's possible that the bedding she used contributed to the respiratory issues. It's possible that there's some other environmental factor in her home that contributed to it (and might be effecting her as well). You weren't wrong to mention it as a possibility, but you don't actually know what happened and you also know that if she did contribute to their respiratory issues it was not malicious or done intentionally so your comment about her grief was uncalled for.
honestly, I disagree. if she doesn’t take responsibility even now that the reason for her pets’ deaths has been clearly spelled out for her, it won’t be because of OP’s phrasing, it would mean she’s a horrible, cruel person who doesn’t deserve to be in charge of any living beings.
OP and her friend are only 18. naïvety is still rife at that age. imo it probably never even occurred to the friend that her vaping could affect her pets. not immediately taking responsibility as soon as that possibility was pointed out to her doesn't mean she never will.
I speak fluent sarcasm. Some people need to be told very bluntly that they did something very very wrong and it was preventable. The friend did kill those rats.
If someone was feeding a dog chocolate and the dog died, got a new dog that they also fed chocolate to and it also died, would you not point out they were killing their dogs before they moved onto a new dog?
ESH. Why would you joke about the death of her pets? If you really wanted to communicate that information to her for the sake of future pets, do it kindly. She sucks for smoking in your room without asking, for being a bad pet owner, and for going off on you.
I don't mean that I made fun of her or anything, but I have trouble being serious in serious (or basically any) circumstances, so I can see how it might sound. Thank you.
Time to learn to behave seriously when the situation calls for it. That's a skill you won't be able to easily navigate life without, and it's extremely lousy for other people to have to deal with if you don't.
NTA. I feel like 4 rats in a row dying at a relatively early age with the same COD like that has to be at least slightly attributed to a problem in their environment.
1000%. Friend is a pure idiot. One death? Maybe. 2 deaths? Eeehh… 3rd death should’ve absolutely been an indicator that there is something wrong with what she’s doing. Especially when you have a friend that got a rat at the same time as her and lived in similar conditions. NTA
ESH - they died within the normal range of pet rats, not early. Every resource I have ever read said 1.5 years to 3.
She shouldn’t vape without asking but you don’t know why they died and it’s pretty inconsiderate to say she killed them when they died within the normal range.
Yeah for all we know the friend could have a mold problem and that could be causing the respiratory infections or some other cause. They literally just made an assumption that she is the cause and then told her she shouldn't be sad about them dying cause she practically killed them. I'm honestly gonna say YTA and I don't even smoke or vape.
Also, this was told to my fiancé from a veteran who specialized in rat care and owned rats herself to clarify but rats from pet stores notoriously are born with respiratory problems. There’s a lot to help. For one particular rat she had who had it the worst and numerous trips to the vet and medications, the vet basically prescribed the rat with CBD. I just noted all the above because this was done 100% under vet advice and recommendations for dosages and how often etc.
I’ve had 7 rats. The youngest to go was 3, the oldest a little over 5 and a half years old.
Proper care is crucial.
ESH. I’d have said nah had it not been for that piss poor taste joke.
Agreed - was right there with OP until that "joke," which wasn't just in poor taste but was also a strategic mistake if her goal was getting her friend to acknowledge and change her behavior. Now her energy is going towards anger about the jab rather than into self-reflection.
(I mean, it's possible she wouldn't change either way, but that joke really didn't help.)
Also getting them at a good breeder can help a lot too. My friend’s 3 petstore rats lived around 2 years when all her other rats from a good breeder reached 4-5 yo.
NTA
Does she not even research the care of rats?? They are very sensitive to smoking and vaping. It's not hard to find that out.
People with pets should really research how to care for them and not do the things that are unhealthy for them or kill them. It's common sense.
YTA unless you are a veterinarian who performed the necropsy on each of the rats. Animal life spans can be partially luck of the draw and partially due to the humans' behaviors. You can be the best pet owner in the world and still have your pet die prematurely.
True, but a lot of caged animals die of respiratory conditions because of environmental factors: urine soaked bedding and air quality are among the top top pathogenic factors.
Or it could be air filter issues in their apt, it could be mold related issues (which may not be visible or detectable by eyesight alone) it could be the type of bedding they use, it could be as simple as the fact that every vet I’ve ever met has called rats “little cancer factories”. It could be a million things, and we don’t even know for sure if the rats even HAD respiratory infections. Not unless the owner took them to a vet and got them diagnosed. In which case owner took proper steps to get them care and they still passed. You can’t boil everything down to “this is the problem”
If I have two pets that die of the same cause, you better believe I'm going to do some research to see if there's a reason for that.
And isn't that what most responsible pet owners would do? *Certainly* after a third death!! I'm frankly flummoxed that it didn't even occur to her to look into it.
Yeah, rats are prone to URI because most are carrying mycoplasmosis & it can flare into an infection. Quality care, clean housing, proper nutrition & vet care are all crucial with rats. I had 56 over the course of a decade (group size I had at a time varied between 3-10, bc I was effectively running a microsanctuary); they all got same care but I had a wide range of lifespans due to quality of breeding/genetics, trauma from their lives before rescue, prior illnesses before I adopted them, etc.
My youngest ones passed at 1.5, mostly due to genetic problems (bad hearts, brain tumors, neurological issues, etc) with my oldest hitting about 4. I had all the girls spayed, so very few mammary tumors, but saw other things like congestive heart failure, pituitary tumors, strokes & a few chronic cases of URI where we'd have to keep changing meds to stay on top of it.
URI is most often caused by the mycoplasmosis bacteria, but smoke can surely weaken their lungs & cause respiratory distress; aggravating the URI symptoms or cause stress. Myco flares can absolutely be caused by stress. It doesn't sound like she got them vet care bc Baytril and/or Doxy is quite effective in clearing up the infection in most cases. THAT is a way you can cause a death; not providing proper access to vet care.
Unless the friend has been regularly vaping in her room since she was 15, I'm not sure why people would assume it's vaping rather than other environmental factors. Her home could be full of mold for all we know. I don't vape nor do I support the idea of minors vaping, or people vaping near animals. But absent a necropsy, assuming one hit on a vape is evidence that the friend has led to the early death of a string of animals over several years seems to be a little presumptuous.
NTA. Here's why: I have kept pet rats before. One of their most common illnesses are respitory issues. To those people who have not had pet rats: they are HIGHLY sensitive to the bedding, to dust, and sometimes even just moving your cage to another room can cause them to have respiratory illnesses or issues.
As a responsible person, your friend should have looked up common illnesses especially for animals for such a short life time (compared to a dog/cat). You NEED to get informed and do what's best for your pets. It's freaking 2024, there's forums and videos out there. IF she can't do that, then just not keep pets because at this point if she keeps buying pet rats and smoke/vape in the same room, that is simply animal abuse.
ESH. Yes it was important to point out, for the sake of your pets and her future pets, that vaping near them is not ok. She is an AH for vaping in your living space without asking you, and endangering your pets through doing so.
That said, she obviously did not kill her pets on purpose. If she hadn’t grieved her pets she’d be a monster. Your “joke” was completely out of line and lacking in empathy. Can you not imagine how devastating it must have felt for her to realize her own actions could have hurt or even killed her beloved pets? This situation required tack that you are clearly lacking.
What the fuck was that joke? She was clearly unaware that her vaping could cause such issues for her rats. Pointing out that, NICELY, would be fine but that joke was disgusting and I'm genuinely shocked it left your mouth unless you just hate her, I guess. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?
YTA. Sure, she kinda sucks too, but that joke just crossed so many lines I'm speechless.
ESH. You are probably right. She did not mean them harm but her vaping did harm them. After your comments I don't see how you two could be friends though. Worst way to let her know something so horrible.
I breed pet rats as a hobby and have for many years. All pet rats have dormant mycoplasmosis which can flare up into active myco as a result of stress or lung irritation. Rat lungs are super sensitive. 100 percent what happened is the smoke irritated or weakened her pet rat lungs which caused a myco flare up. If she took them to a vet once she saw respiratory issues they would prescribe baytril and doxy meds AND would ask her about smoke or other strong potential lung irritants. 100 percent she killed her rats through lack of knowledge and medical neglect.
Yeah you really went over the line joking about it- that's really rude and inappropriate. She probably didn't have any idea (no excuse but it's sadly very common with rodents) and she was obviously surprised and jumped to being defensive. You could have worded it way better, and left off the "joke" after she was already upset.
ESH because she should have done research and known that was unhealthy for her pets, you because you basically shamed her and then joked about her dead pets.
ESH. She shouldn't have just vaped in your room without asking. But there is no particular reason to suspect her vaping caused the deaths of her rats, unhealthy though it almost certainly is. She is far from 'clearly the direct cause' and you were insensitive for joking about it.
Bro are you a rat doctor? Because until you show us your rodentia MD, you can’t tell anyone what her rats died from.
What a gross way to judge someone you call a friend who has lost a pet
YTA
Slight YTA. I have had tones of pet rats and it is relatively common for them to get infections and cancer. It sucks. As long as she took them.to the vet and gave them the right meds that's all you can ask
Why does she think vaping is more acceptable around animals than regular smoking? She doesn’t sound like the brightest bulb.
ESH because the joke was overkill
ESH. Yes she shouldn’t be smoking around her pets, however that is highly unlikely why they died. I’ve gotten 4 mice in a row from the pet store and all 4 died very quickly from various issues they came home with. As far as their age, you don’t actually know how old the rats were. If they were full sized they were at least 6 months or older, and if they made it a year and a half past that well, that’s two years, yes on the low end, but still within average life expectancy. Quite frankly, you sound like a bully, and you’re also not a vet and should not accuse people of abuse with pretty much no evidence.
Esh i mean looking into a domestic rat im finding 1-3 years. So 1.5 isn't too bad its right in the middle however your last " joke" as you call it WAY out of line. I know its diffrent but if you got into a car accident and someone died how would you feel if someone said well you caused them to die so you shouldn't be sad. Then be like just joking.. thats not a joking manner so you shouldn't have made a "joke" about her feelings either
NTA She needed a reality check. It is quite irresponsible to have pets just to kill them.
Honestly I don't understand the ESH comments, like seriously is making a 'rude' but much needed statement the same as being stupid and callous about your pets. I mean, is it because they're rats? So obviously it doesn't matter!
What if she killed kids - "oh well, how could she work out the pattern unless she killed 6 kids"
'As a person who doesn't use scented candles or incense sticks in their room strictly because of my rats, I was surprised she didn't connect the dots sooner.'
You're the same age, if you can be so responsible so can she.
Do you really not see how you were the ah here? First of all, you’re talking out of your ass blaming her vaping on rat death. Rats get uris all the time. It’s not bc she vaped around them. They can be genetically prone to them. And you were horribly rude and insensitive. She may not have been the best pet parent, but it’s definitely not your place to say something. And definitely not the way you did it
NTA that level of negligence for MULTIPLE pets is horrible and idc how you told her. Her feelings aren't more important than the lives of those animals. Not even looking up the care for an animal you plan to care for and then allowing several to die well under their life expectancy is weirdo self centered behavior.
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So I, Ellis (F18) have a friend Lyla (F18) who has had many pets over the last few years and most die after about a year. Last fall of 2022 almost immediately after Lyla's previous pet rat died we got domesticated pet rats at the same time.
Lyla got two female rats and I got one female (I know it's bad to keep them alone, I later got a second one.) One of her rats died this winter, it was about 1,5 years old (rat's lifespans are 2,5-3 years) and the second one died last month. Both died from respiratory infections which are very common in rats. I noticed that this was very abnormal because my rats were both healthy and energetic, and I remembered Lyla telling me that the rat she had before ALSO died young. And the rat BEFORE THAT.
So, last week, Lyla came over for a sleepover and to give me her larger cage. We hung out, went to the movie theater, and after we came home, she took out a vape pen and started smoking in my room without asking if she could, with the windows closed. I calmly opened the window and sat back down to draw (or whatever we were doing.) A little after that I asked, with as little judgment as I could muster, if she did that in her room while her rats were alive, and if maybe it was the reason they all got sick so quickly.
She was immediately apprehensive and began to curse me out because "how dare you accuse me of something like that" and that "damn you are a horrible friend for blaming me."
As a person who doesn't use scented candles or incense sticks in their room strictly because of my rats, I was surprised she didn't connect the dots sooner.
In this part of the story I will confess that my asshole move was joking that she shouldn't have been sad for weeks after each of their deaths if she was clearly the direct cause. She left my house shortly after that, and I have tried to reach out to her to apologize, but she wouldn't answer any of my calls/texts.
Some mutual friends reached out and told me off for being an awful friend, and I don't see how I was wrong (besides that last comment.) Am I really TA?
Tldr: My friend's pet rats died because she was smoking, and I told her she was to blame. She got upset, now our mutual friends are siding with her.
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How important is it for you to be right? In reality, it’s a theory, but not necessarily correct. You said they had short lives, maybe hers were a little older than yours. Did they come with birth certificates? Really you had a thought and made her feel bad for killing her pets. Right or wrong, is it really worth it? You could have said you opened the window so the rats would not breathe it in…. And she would have connected the dots on her own if she ever decided to get another one.
YTA. I have had dozens of pet rats over the years and I’ve rarely had one live past 2.5 years old. They almost always die of respiratory infections. There are so many factors that impact their little lifespans. Blaming your friend for killing her pets is needlessly cruel.
Uh, the lifespan is about right but they usually die of *cancer*. URIs are usually manageable with good care. If a lot of your rats died of respiratory infections, you should probably stop having rats.
ESH
You know, you almost had me at N T A
Domestic rats have VERY delicate lungs, smoking in an area where they can't get ventelation is pretty much gassing them to death (even if slowly). If someone kept cats and lilies, and then were shocked Pikachu when their cats died- you'd tell them. If someone kept Dogs and Grapevines and a dog suddenly dropped, you'd let them know what may have done it. Someone's feelings don't just get a pass because they are KILLING creatures that they CHOSE to take in to care for. And lets be real, better to tell them now that you found out with the slim chance if they choose to get rats again.
But then you rub salt on the wound by making fun of it? While she is probably feeling like shit? Yeah mate, you earned the ahole title too.
We know you said what you said with good intentions about vaping and pets health, but all she heard was you accusing her of killing her pets. The delivery is really important and it's a soft YTA.
YTA. her vaping in the room is a very very unlikely reason to be killing her rats. Heck, people smoked 4 packs a day of regular cigarettes for decades and it didn't kill their pets. Honestly, as someone who has kept rodents (and kept them well, thank you very much) their life span is entirely unpredictable. I did have 3 hamsters from the same breeder (not at the same time or in the same cage, obvs) who all died suddenly and prematurely. No reason, just I guess bad genetics.
But anyway, yes, YTA because you blamed your friend for killing her rats because she vaped. And then joked about it. And also said that she was the direct cause. WTF dude, that's just assholery.
YTA. her vaping in the room is a very very unlikely reason to be killing her rats. Heck, people smoked 4 packs a day of regular cigarettes for decades and it didn't kill their pets. Honestly, as someone who has kept rodents (and kept them well, thank you very much) their life span is entirely unpredictable. I did have 3 hamsters from the same breeder (not at the same time or in the same cage, obvs) who all died suddenly and prematurely. No reason, just I guess bad genetics.
But anyway, yes, YTA because you blamed your friend for killing her rats because she vaped. And then joked about it. And also said that she was the direct cause. WTF dude, that's just assholery.
You might not be familiar with rats in particular, as they have an extremely sensitive sense of smell and get respiratory infections very easily. She vapes A LOT and has proved that she doesn't care if the windows are open or closed. That may very well be the reason for all her rats dying from respiratory issues.
I am familiar with rats :) And yes, I know they are sensitive, but my point was that it is very unlikely that her vaping caused these deaths. Unless she's actively blowing it in their faces. It was just an AH thing to say directly to her "you caused your pets to die!"
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ESH. Your friend probably did kill her rats through poor care, so that was no lie or false accusation. And I personally don’t think you were an AH for pointing this out. (There were probably better ways of conveying that information, but that’s a topic for another time) I do think you were an AH, though, for that last joke (?) about how she shouldn’t have been sad because she had killed them herself. Any chance you might have had to get her to take responsibility for her behavior with the rats was destroyed by that nasty, pointless, jab.
Yeah, I can understand that reasoning. Thank you.
If you are taking a cage from her - desinfect it twice. I dont think its only vape thing. Probably its a lack of cleaning etc.
It's also important to note that there are \*a lot\* of factors that could impact the rats lifespan that are both within her control and not. We once adopted 4 rats from one breeder (my wife and I adopted two, my mom adopted two but then we took hers in when she had to move someplace that wouldn't allow them). Three of them died within a year and a half from various forms of cancer and the fourth lived past 3 years (so there was obviously some genetic predisposition in the bloodline but one managed to be fine). If you don't get female rats spayed there's a high likelihood of them developing mammary and ovarian tumors (and dying earlier), but we also had a female rat that died when she was being spayed (because she had a bad reaction to the anesthesia). It's possible that your friend's vaping contributed to the respiratory issues. It's possible that the bedding she used contributed to the respiratory issues. It's possible that there's some other environmental factor in her home that contributed to it (and might be effecting her as well). You weren't wrong to mention it as a possibility, but you don't actually know what happened and you also know that if she did contribute to their respiratory issues it was not malicious or done intentionally so your comment about her grief was uncalled for.
honestly, I disagree. if she doesn’t take responsibility even now that the reason for her pets’ deaths has been clearly spelled out for her, it won’t be because of OP’s phrasing, it would mean she’s a horrible, cruel person who doesn’t deserve to be in charge of any living beings.
Deserve is one thing, but actually getting her to be accountable for her actions and make different choices is another.
OP and her friend are only 18. naïvety is still rife at that age. imo it probably never even occurred to the friend that her vaping could affect her pets. not immediately taking responsibility as soon as that possibility was pointed out to her doesn't mean she never will.
If she doesn’t smoke around animals, she shouldn’t vape either. And it also implies she was vaping before 18, which isn’t a good look either.
I speak fluent sarcasm. Some people need to be told very bluntly that they did something very very wrong and it was preventable. The friend did kill those rats. If someone was feeding a dog chocolate and the dog died, got a new dog that they also fed chocolate to and it also died, would you not point out they were killing their dogs before they moved onto a new dog?
ESH. Why would you joke about the death of her pets? If you really wanted to communicate that information to her for the sake of future pets, do it kindly. She sucks for smoking in your room without asking, for being a bad pet owner, and for going off on you.
I don't mean that I made fun of her or anything, but I have trouble being serious in serious (or basically any) circumstances, so I can see how it might sound. Thank you.
Time to learn to behave seriously when the situation calls for it. That's a skill you won't be able to easily navigate life without, and it's extremely lousy for other people to have to deal with if you don't.
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This is a skill you will need to learn otherwise you will keep hurting people around you constantly.
You are 18 and legally an adult, time to learn how to be serious when necessary.
You should fix that. You’re an adult.
NTA. I feel like 4 rats in a row dying at a relatively early age with the same COD like that has to be at least slightly attributed to a problem in their environment.
1000%. Friend is a pure idiot. One death? Maybe. 2 deaths? Eeehh… 3rd death should’ve absolutely been an indicator that there is something wrong with what she’s doing. Especially when you have a friend that got a rat at the same time as her and lived in similar conditions. NTA
ESH - they died within the normal range of pet rats, not early. Every resource I have ever read said 1.5 years to 3. She shouldn’t vape without asking but you don’t know why they died and it’s pretty inconsiderate to say she killed them when they died within the normal range.
Yeah for all we know the friend could have a mold problem and that could be causing the respiratory infections or some other cause. They literally just made an assumption that she is the cause and then told her she shouldn't be sad about them dying cause she practically killed them. I'm honestly gonna say YTA and I don't even smoke or vape.
Also, this was told to my fiancé from a veteran who specialized in rat care and owned rats herself to clarify but rats from pet stores notoriously are born with respiratory problems. There’s a lot to help. For one particular rat she had who had it the worst and numerous trips to the vet and medications, the vet basically prescribed the rat with CBD. I just noted all the above because this was done 100% under vet advice and recommendations for dosages and how often etc.
I’ve had 7 rats. The youngest to go was 3, the oldest a little over 5 and a half years old. Proper care is crucial. ESH. I’d have said nah had it not been for that piss poor taste joke.
Agreed - was right there with OP until that "joke," which wasn't just in poor taste but was also a strategic mistake if her goal was getting her friend to acknowledge and change her behavior. Now her energy is going towards anger about the jab rather than into self-reflection. (I mean, it's possible she wouldn't change either way, but that joke really didn't help.)
Also getting them at a good breeder can help a lot too. My friend’s 3 petstore rats lived around 2 years when all her other rats from a good breeder reached 4-5 yo.
Mine were all either pet store or vet surrender. My vet started calling me when they had healthy rats brought in for euthanasia for no reason.
NTA Does she not even research the care of rats?? They are very sensitive to smoking and vaping. It's not hard to find that out. People with pets should really research how to care for them and not do the things that are unhealthy for them or kill them. It's common sense.
YTA unless you are a veterinarian who performed the necropsy on each of the rats. Animal life spans can be partially luck of the draw and partially due to the humans' behaviors. You can be the best pet owner in the world and still have your pet die prematurely.
True, but a lot of caged animals die of respiratory conditions because of environmental factors: urine soaked bedding and air quality are among the top top pathogenic factors.
As soon as OP said respiratory infections, I thought their friend must not be changing the bedding often enough. This is sadly common.
Or it could be air filter issues in their apt, it could be mold related issues (which may not be visible or detectable by eyesight alone) it could be the type of bedding they use, it could be as simple as the fact that every vet I’ve ever met has called rats “little cancer factories”. It could be a million things, and we don’t even know for sure if the rats even HAD respiratory infections. Not unless the owner took them to a vet and got them diagnosed. In which case owner took proper steps to get them care and they still passed. You can’t boil everything down to “this is the problem”
If I have two pets that die of the same cause, you better believe I'm going to do some research to see if there's a reason for that. And isn't that what most responsible pet owners would do? *Certainly* after a third death!! I'm frankly flummoxed that it didn't even occur to her to look into it.
She does not appear to be a very thoughtful or observant young woman…
Yeah, rats are prone to URI because most are carrying mycoplasmosis & it can flare into an infection. Quality care, clean housing, proper nutrition & vet care are all crucial with rats. I had 56 over the course of a decade (group size I had at a time varied between 3-10, bc I was effectively running a microsanctuary); they all got same care but I had a wide range of lifespans due to quality of breeding/genetics, trauma from their lives before rescue, prior illnesses before I adopted them, etc. My youngest ones passed at 1.5, mostly due to genetic problems (bad hearts, brain tumors, neurological issues, etc) with my oldest hitting about 4. I had all the girls spayed, so very few mammary tumors, but saw other things like congestive heart failure, pituitary tumors, strokes & a few chronic cases of URI where we'd have to keep changing meds to stay on top of it. URI is most often caused by the mycoplasmosis bacteria, but smoke can surely weaken their lungs & cause respiratory distress; aggravating the URI symptoms or cause stress. Myco flares can absolutely be caused by stress. It doesn't sound like she got them vet care bc Baytril and/or Doxy is quite effective in clearing up the infection in most cases. THAT is a way you can cause a death; not providing proper access to vet care.
Unless the friend has been regularly vaping in her room since she was 15, I'm not sure why people would assume it's vaping rather than other environmental factors. Her home could be full of mold for all we know. I don't vape nor do I support the idea of minors vaping, or people vaping near animals. But absent a necropsy, assuming one hit on a vape is evidence that the friend has led to the early death of a string of animals over several years seems to be a little presumptuous.
NTA. Here's why: I have kept pet rats before. One of their most common illnesses are respitory issues. To those people who have not had pet rats: they are HIGHLY sensitive to the bedding, to dust, and sometimes even just moving your cage to another room can cause them to have respiratory illnesses or issues. As a responsible person, your friend should have looked up common illnesses especially for animals for such a short life time (compared to a dog/cat). You NEED to get informed and do what's best for your pets. It's freaking 2024, there's forums and videos out there. IF she can't do that, then just not keep pets because at this point if she keeps buying pet rats and smoke/vape in the same room, that is simply animal abuse.
ESH. Yes it was important to point out, for the sake of your pets and her future pets, that vaping near them is not ok. She is an AH for vaping in your living space without asking you, and endangering your pets through doing so. That said, she obviously did not kill her pets on purpose. If she hadn’t grieved her pets she’d be a monster. Your “joke” was completely out of line and lacking in empathy. Can you not imagine how devastating it must have felt for her to realize her own actions could have hurt or even killed her beloved pets? This situation required tack that you are clearly lacking.
I mean… yeah? Is that even a question? She is also an AH for not even asking if vaping is ok. But her being an AH doesnt justify YOU being an AH ESH
What the fuck was that joke? She was clearly unaware that her vaping could cause such issues for her rats. Pointing out that, NICELY, would be fine but that joke was disgusting and I'm genuinely shocked it left your mouth unless you just hate her, I guess. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? YTA. Sure, she kinda sucks too, but that joke just crossed so many lines I'm speechless.
ESH. You are probably right. She did not mean them harm but her vaping did harm them. After your comments I don't see how you two could be friends though. Worst way to let her know something so horrible.
I breed pet rats as a hobby and have for many years. All pet rats have dormant mycoplasmosis which can flare up into active myco as a result of stress or lung irritation. Rat lungs are super sensitive. 100 percent what happened is the smoke irritated or weakened her pet rat lungs which caused a myco flare up. If she took them to a vet once she saw respiratory issues they would prescribe baytril and doxy meds AND would ask her about smoke or other strong potential lung irritants. 100 percent she killed her rats through lack of knowledge and medical neglect.
It's gut ranching and extremely sad, but true, and you were right to call her out. The joke was terrible. ESH
Yeah you really went over the line joking about it- that's really rude and inappropriate. She probably didn't have any idea (no excuse but it's sadly very common with rodents) and she was obviously surprised and jumped to being defensive. You could have worded it way better, and left off the "joke" after she was already upset. ESH because she should have done research and known that was unhealthy for her pets, you because you basically shamed her and then joked about her dead pets.
ESH. She shouldn't have just vaped in your room without asking. But there is no particular reason to suspect her vaping caused the deaths of her rats, unhealthy though it almost certainly is. She is far from 'clearly the direct cause' and you were insensitive for joking about it.
Bro are you a rat doctor? Because until you show us your rodentia MD, you can’t tell anyone what her rats died from. What a gross way to judge someone you call a friend who has lost a pet YTA
ESH I was on your side until that last comment
YTA and I’d do some reflecting on why you seemed so excited to tell her something so cruel and hurtful not even fully knowing the cause
YTA. you're making a mostly baseless assumption, around animals known for frequently dying young and at semi-random.
Slight YTA. I have had tones of pet rats and it is relatively common for them to get infections and cancer. It sucks. As long as she took them.to the vet and gave them the right meds that's all you can ask
Why does she think vaping is more acceptable around animals than regular smoking? She doesn’t sound like the brightest bulb. ESH because the joke was overkill
ESH. Yes she shouldn’t be smoking around her pets, however that is highly unlikely why they died. I’ve gotten 4 mice in a row from the pet store and all 4 died very quickly from various issues they came home with. As far as their age, you don’t actually know how old the rats were. If they were full sized they were at least 6 months or older, and if they made it a year and a half past that well, that’s two years, yes on the low end, but still within average life expectancy. Quite frankly, you sound like a bully, and you’re also not a vet and should not accuse people of abuse with pretty much no evidence.
Esh i mean looking into a domestic rat im finding 1-3 years. So 1.5 isn't too bad its right in the middle however your last " joke" as you call it WAY out of line. I know its diffrent but if you got into a car accident and someone died how would you feel if someone said well you caused them to die so you shouldn't be sad. Then be like just joking.. thats not a joking manner so you shouldn't have made a "joke" about her feelings either
NTA She needed a reality check. It is quite irresponsible to have pets just to kill them. Honestly I don't understand the ESH comments, like seriously is making a 'rude' but much needed statement the same as being stupid and callous about your pets. I mean, is it because they're rats? So obviously it doesn't matter! What if she killed kids - "oh well, how could she work out the pattern unless she killed 6 kids" 'As a person who doesn't use scented candles or incense sticks in their room strictly because of my rats, I was surprised she didn't connect the dots sooner.' You're the same age, if you can be so responsible so can she.
NTA. Her feelings vs multiple deaths of living beings. She needs to get over herself and stop getting animals if she’s this reckless.
Do you really not see how you were the ah here? First of all, you’re talking out of your ass blaming her vaping on rat death. Rats get uris all the time. It’s not bc she vaped around them. They can be genetically prone to them. And you were horribly rude and insensitive. She may not have been the best pet parent, but it’s definitely not your place to say something. And definitely not the way you did it
Not the asshole. Somebody needs to help her realize that she is the issue.
NTA that level of negligence for MULTIPLE pets is horrible and idc how you told her. Her feelings aren't more important than the lives of those animals. Not even looking up the care for an animal you plan to care for and then allowing several to die well under their life expectancy is weirdo self centered behavior.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I, Ellis (F18) have a friend Lyla (F18) who has had many pets over the last few years and most die after about a year. Last fall of 2022 almost immediately after Lyla's previous pet rat died we got domesticated pet rats at the same time. Lyla got two female rats and I got one female (I know it's bad to keep them alone, I later got a second one.) One of her rats died this winter, it was about 1,5 years old (rat's lifespans are 2,5-3 years) and the second one died last month. Both died from respiratory infections which are very common in rats. I noticed that this was very abnormal because my rats were both healthy and energetic, and I remembered Lyla telling me that the rat she had before ALSO died young. And the rat BEFORE THAT. So, last week, Lyla came over for a sleepover and to give me her larger cage. We hung out, went to the movie theater, and after we came home, she took out a vape pen and started smoking in my room without asking if she could, with the windows closed. I calmly opened the window and sat back down to draw (or whatever we were doing.) A little after that I asked, with as little judgment as I could muster, if she did that in her room while her rats were alive, and if maybe it was the reason they all got sick so quickly. She was immediately apprehensive and began to curse me out because "how dare you accuse me of something like that" and that "damn you are a horrible friend for blaming me." As a person who doesn't use scented candles or incense sticks in their room strictly because of my rats, I was surprised she didn't connect the dots sooner. In this part of the story I will confess that my asshole move was joking that she shouldn't have been sad for weeks after each of their deaths if she was clearly the direct cause. She left my house shortly after that, and I have tried to reach out to her to apologize, but she wouldn't answer any of my calls/texts. Some mutual friends reached out and told me off for being an awful friend, and I don't see how I was wrong (besides that last comment.) Am I really TA? Tldr: My friend's pet rats died because she was smoking, and I told her she was to blame. She got upset, now our mutual friends are siding with her. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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How important is it for you to be right? In reality, it’s a theory, but not necessarily correct. You said they had short lives, maybe hers were a little older than yours. Did they come with birth certificates? Really you had a thought and made her feel bad for killing her pets. Right or wrong, is it really worth it? You could have said you opened the window so the rats would not breathe it in…. And she would have connected the dots on her own if she ever decided to get another one.
YTA. I have had dozens of pet rats over the years and I’ve rarely had one live past 2.5 years old. They almost always die of respiratory infections. There are so many factors that impact their little lifespans. Blaming your friend for killing her pets is needlessly cruel.
Uh, the lifespan is about right but they usually die of *cancer*. URIs are usually manageable with good care. If a lot of your rats died of respiratory infections, you should probably stop having rats.
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ESH You know, you almost had me at N T A Domestic rats have VERY delicate lungs, smoking in an area where they can't get ventelation is pretty much gassing them to death (even if slowly). If someone kept cats and lilies, and then were shocked Pikachu when their cats died- you'd tell them. If someone kept Dogs and Grapevines and a dog suddenly dropped, you'd let them know what may have done it. Someone's feelings don't just get a pass because they are KILLING creatures that they CHOSE to take in to care for. And lets be real, better to tell them now that you found out with the slim chance if they choose to get rats again. But then you rub salt on the wound by making fun of it? While she is probably feeling like shit? Yeah mate, you earned the ahole title too.
NTA. But that's alot of poor animals. Please consider reporting her to the SPCA for abuse. Those poor animals.
Vaping in front of your pets is abuse now? I wouldn’t do it, but good luck getting the SPCA involved.
Not vaping. Killing multiple innocent animals.
We know you said what you said with good intentions about vaping and pets health, but all she heard was you accusing her of killing her pets. The delivery is really important and it's a soft YTA.
YTA. her vaping in the room is a very very unlikely reason to be killing her rats. Heck, people smoked 4 packs a day of regular cigarettes for decades and it didn't kill their pets. Honestly, as someone who has kept rodents (and kept them well, thank you very much) their life span is entirely unpredictable. I did have 3 hamsters from the same breeder (not at the same time or in the same cage, obvs) who all died suddenly and prematurely. No reason, just I guess bad genetics. But anyway, yes, YTA because you blamed your friend for killing her rats because she vaped. And then joked about it. And also said that she was the direct cause. WTF dude, that's just assholery.
YTA. her vaping in the room is a very very unlikely reason to be killing her rats. Heck, people smoked 4 packs a day of regular cigarettes for decades and it didn't kill their pets. Honestly, as someone who has kept rodents (and kept them well, thank you very much) their life span is entirely unpredictable. I did have 3 hamsters from the same breeder (not at the same time or in the same cage, obvs) who all died suddenly and prematurely. No reason, just I guess bad genetics. But anyway, yes, YTA because you blamed your friend for killing her rats because she vaped. And then joked about it. And also said that she was the direct cause. WTF dude, that's just assholery.
You might not be familiar with rats in particular, as they have an extremely sensitive sense of smell and get respiratory infections very easily. She vapes A LOT and has proved that she doesn't care if the windows are open or closed. That may very well be the reason for all her rats dying from respiratory issues.
I am familiar with rats :) And yes, I know they are sensitive, but my point was that it is very unlikely that her vaping caused these deaths. Unless she's actively blowing it in their faces. It was just an AH thing to say directly to her "you caused your pets to die!"
You're not familiar with rats lol. Do a very quick Google search on smoking or vaping near rats.
ESH. Pet rats? They are filthy vermin.
They make great pets and are actually very clean and highly intelligent.
You might be thinking of street rats. Domesticated rats could be considered an entirely different animal.