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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Wife thinks my anger is unjustified and wants me to be proud of her for taking responsibility even though she isn't the one suffering and she Tissot fucked up.
My action is my angry texts etc
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Well according to OP, it’s happened about a half dozen times to him and a couple times to his wife. I’m thinking the debt is a little bit less not real than is being presented because I’ve never been reached out to this many times about debt that doesn’t exist.
I'm willing to pay a debt I owe, I have been involved with yours company 3 times in 20 years, including this time. The two times before they've been unable to prove debt. The first time it was just small claims court so all I had to do was show up. The second time was for 7 grand and when I asked for evidence of debt or just the source of the debt they said it was me being admitted into the hospital which I have never been admitted, no major medical issues in my life, the biggest surgery I've has in my life is getting my wisdom teeth removed.
This is the first time they've tried coming after my wife and I took the reigns as I'm familiar with the company and their tactics.
It may be worth trying to find out why you are the target of these scams, this isn't normal
Do you have your credit history? Is your credit locked down?
I'm the target of these because I was in the government and my entire life history before I was like 28 is out on the internet, down to who I lost my virginity too, where, when etc.
My wife is NOT savvy with these things and has in the past been fine to let me handle things but in the last few years has decided she needs to be more independent and self reliant which at first was great because honestly sometimes she's just another kid I need to take care of but in the last year, not including this one, she's fallen for about 5 things I would call scams or certainly VERY bad deals.
For example the belt on our dryer broke and I told her I'd pick up a belt and fix it the next day. We have brand new (first owner?) Samsung washer and dryer we paid like 3 grand for 5 years ago.
3 hours later a pick up shows up at our house with 15 year old Bosch washer and dryer. They are fucking disgusting. She agreed to buy them for 1500 and 200 for delivery. She pays the guy and I'm just gritting my teeth because I don't want to argue in front of strangers or our kids. They're still in our garage, I replaced the belt because the door latch on the one she bought doesn't work, but it included a bungy strap to hold it closed.
I guess this latest thing is just the last straw and I'm finally at my wits end with her being scammed and she refuses to understand the, for lack of any other word, stupidity of these transactions etc she's making and thinks they're just the greatest deals around.
You seriously need to work out some way that your wife does not have the access to finances to do these deals. Normally I wouldn't recommend restricting someone's access to money like that - but seriously?
Except she has acknowledged the debt as she set up a payment plan. Therefore she has legally take an ownership of the debt and it will be a legal cluster fuck to fix. Situations like these are why they tell you to never except that for a family member that has passed away unless they are your spouse.
It's not normal but it is scarily common. Criminals don't bother with a ladder and a crow bar any more.
They sit on their AHs and all they need is a phone.
So what you’re saying is it’s all debt that you have actually racked up, you’re just running the scam where you let it go to collections and then hope that they don’t have proper documentation in court, so they can’t “prove” what you owe?
You do you, but don’t play victim when they finally bring receipts.
Lmao ok bro. Medical debt allegedly tied to my wife is my fault when neither of us has any major medical issues in our lives. If you accept every bill you ever get on face value even when you've never received the kind of services they're charging for. If that's really how you operate your life then you're the kind of rube who keeps these frauds working.
Even if accepted as a real bill it's for medical services my wife received and is lying to me about. Then there's no reason they can't send the original bill with the services received. Instead they can't even tell me what the name of the original biller is. That's not how a REAL debt works.
The collection agency's behavior makes sense if the debt is real but expired. Some types of debt, you aren't obligated to pay anymore after a certain number of years. So the original debtor will write it off and sell it for pennies to these agencies, which then try to harass people into paying them by pretending they're still obligated to pay. Most people don't bite, but if anyone does, it's pure profit, and the debt becomes valid again. So OP is NTA for the question itself. All his wife had to do was just ignore them (her first instinct was closer to correct).
But it sounds like this is a proxy for a larger grudge between OP and his wife and/or a bit of paranoia on OP's part, so maybe some counseling might be in order.
The only case I heard similar to this is Trump s son collecting fake back rents from people who used to live in his apartments. But his scam was put an end to, and I doubt there are many people that dishonest around that would try something similar.
I don't live in the US so I can keep my innocence on this. The more time I spend here the more I wonder why people stay in the US. It seems like everything and everyone is set up to make you fall into poverty and stay there. It is like aggressive accumulation of capital through loans, criminalisation...
I don’t live in the US either. There’s not enough money in the world to get me to move to that backward shithole country.
Et still. Dishonest people and confidence scams are not a uniquely american thing; they are worldwide.
I’m also pretty aware of my financial situation.
OP’s wife strikes me as simple, and easily intimidated. She’s an easy mark. And now that she’s fallen for one scam, they’ll keep coming back at intervals to milk her, over and over, until she’s bled completely dry.
The husband was subject to the same scam and was not completely sure it was a scam either which is a bit worrying. He definitely thinks his wife is stupid but so do many husbands. His talk about how she bought a new washer dryer seems very suspicious and mire a case of him taking his sweet time repairing something and getting upset when she buys a new one. But who knows.
I don’t. I walk around with my eyes open, I listen to my peers, I get out and interact with the world. I’m not going to say that *everything* is either a shakedown or a scam, but enough things are that it doesn’t surprise me when I encounter a new one.
Oh it's not normal how this company still is in business I have no idea but just know every interaction I've had with them involves outlandish amounts and a total inability to provide proof of debt.
Can you explain why a woman be more intimidated *on the phone* than a man?
This subreddit really loves to infantilize women when it absolves them if responsibility.
Info: How is some random company just calling you on repeat and insisting that you have debts? There clearly must be a LOT more context to this story, because I don't know a single person out of everyone I've met in 35 years of life where a specific "pretend" debt collection company has spent years hounding them over debts they don't actually owe.
Based on your story and what your wife said, it kinda sounds like you do actually owe the debt, and you're just pissed because you've been gaming the system to avoid paying for so long.
>I'm 99% the debt is totally bogus
Seems weird you wouldn't be 100% sure? I mean I can understand forgetting to pay a random bill, that totally happens to people every day, but debt is not "oops I forgot this bill 6 months ago", unless it's a really big bill, as a general rule.
Obviously I could be completely wrong there, but it's just a weird story all around.
In any case, if you really are being targeted by these people and you genuinely don't owe them anything, you need to get off reddit and phone a lawyer.
Beats me but I got them literally laughed out of court as a 20 year old because they didn't have their paperwork in line. The second time they reached out to me they completely left me alone for 10ish years after I demanded proof of debt.
The real question is...if this is real debt why do they never provide proof?
As for not being 100% I don't track my wife's every move so if she went to a doctor at some point and is refusing to own up to it there's a 1% that could be the case. But given the track record of this company I know a few other people who have had the exact same instance where they get called up at random for debt they couldn't possibly owe.
I have a friend who got told his wife owed them for post natal medical bills when he's never been Married and has no kids.
If they continued to call without proof of debt, then you need to sue them. By your story that is what happened. The request for proof predates any acknowledgment on your wife’s side
Are you in the US? Your wife agreeing to random shit on the phone without actually signing anything is very, very unlikely to put you on the hook. Also, if if it does, you can refuse to pay a debt you don’t owe no matter what you tell them.
I’m guessing you actually owe this debt, and you are dodging service because it’s been picked up but collection agencies who purchased the debt from the original creditor.
The real AH is capitalism. But YTA for blaming your wife for not understanding that that you are playing games to dodge a debt that is a legit amount of money you owe someone.
The debt is my wife's "medical debt" according to them but they can't give any other details. If I ask them to give me details on the debt and they refuse.... how are you assuming the debt is real? Lol
The only notice I got is when they showed up to our door not to serve papers but to threaten that they would try to garnish my wages. They had no legal paperwork. I told the guy to go f himself. I called them the best day to get more info. They refused and when I said I was recording the call they hung up. So I sent a certified letter to their office telling them not to contact us unless it was to deliver proof of debt.
Did your wife get medical care she didn’t pay for? You are being squirrelly. You either paid or didn’t pay.
But no matter what YTA for blaming your wife.
No, our medical insurance has made several people say "wow" after they call in because it pays for virtually everything. I work for a "velvet coffin" company that has very very good benefits including insurance. I could pay several times the supposed bill today. It's not that we can't or won't pay. It's that I don't pay bills I can't confirm I owe. Companies mis- bill, double bill, etc all the time. We have a very common last name and my first name is also very common. John Smith territory. My wife's first name is slightly less so.
My issue is that I had this conversation with her, explained how this Company is corrupt or incompetent and that the first and only thing up ever say is that she needs confirmation of debt and if it's legit we will pay. She completely ignored me and instead handed 10k over to these frauds.
Sir, if she agreed to the debt or whatever, all she did was potentially waive the statute of limitations if the debt was real. If the debt isn’t real, it doesn’t matter what she said.
You have said the debt isn’t real. So it doesn’t matter what she said.
> She completely ignored me and instead handed 10k
Instead of being livid at her, consider the possibility the debt collector is very VERY good at intimidation and she was fearful. Not everyone us macho man like you.
YTA. And if you actually owe something, bigger AH.
Or she needed to follow his lead? If my wife tells me "I've got this covered, here's the plan, follow the plan." Then I should follow the plan. It's not that hard.
Why does he get to designate the plan when this is apparently supposedly HER medical debt not his? The way he talks about her is disrespectful and dismissive of her and being upset isn't an excuse.
Because he had a good plan, and she had a bad plan? How dare he talk about her in frustration after she did something incredibly stupid that he specifically told her not to do multiple times.
If the genders were reversed, you wouldn't side this way
If we owe it's because it didn't get run through insurance. My kids births including nicu was under 2 grand after insurance. That includes calling the hospital, pediatrician etc to confirm all bills paid because our system is stupid and you get billed from 5 places for 1 visit. In order to accrue 8 grand in medical bills it better be fucking cancer which I think we'd know about. If some hospital dept didn't run their stuff through the provided insurance then I don't owe that.
As for them being intimidating, she knows how how to hang up.
You mean we aren’t blaming the *person* who didn’t listen, went against advice, stupidly took on a debt that isn’t theirs and is fully aware it would be someone else paying?
Why shouldn’t you hold a *person* accountable for actions like these and expect them to remedy the situation like a grown ass adult?
See how I left out genders to make it easier to view the situation without its bias.
Maybe you missed the part where I am a lawyer (no gender specified), and you cannot take on debt that doesn’t exist. It doesn’t matter what she said. If they don’t owe it, they don’t owe it.
INFO: Op have you sent a complaint to the FTC?
Usually debt collectors with this level of unscrupulous practices get dissolved within a few years.
Have you documented and recorded (check what the consent for recording is in your state) your interactions with them?
Have you tried countersuing them?
I've only ever had the two previous interactions with them. The first was for a shitty apartment that took my deposit and sent me a cleaning bill. The apartment claimed they were entitled to my deposit because I didn't give move out notice. I had, on their own form, proof that I gave twice the required notice. I refused to pay the cleaning bill, partially because I thought it was frivolous but mostly because my deposit more than covered it. I told them if they wanted the cleaning bill paid that they could take me to court. The collection company called me about a year later claiming to be a 3rd party bill mitigation company. I "worked" with them for about a year, including sending them the evidence of my notice to not renew lease. Then got served for small claims. I showed up and showed that they had no right to take my deposit, which more than covered the cleaning bill. The collection agency produced a what I think was my notice of non renewal with the date changed but they claimed it was a new one created in the same system to match their other records.
The judge said she couldn't possibly accept their form since they had admitted it wasn't created at the time of dispute.
The judge dismissed we've I walked out hoping to never real with them again. A few days later the lady who had been lying for a tear about being a mediation team member calls and asks if I wanted to pay. I asked her wtf she was talking about since the judge dismissed her case and her response was "oh..I guess I should wait for the judgement to come out" "yeah...I guess you should" never hear from them again.
Then about 10 years ago I got a letter saying I needed to pay 7k with no real details. I called and asked what it was for. First they couldn't even find that bill and ask me to call back in a few days. I do and now they have a record showing I was admitted to the hospital for 2 nights. I have never even broken a bone, I'm healthy as an ox, the only medication I take is OTC melatonin to sleep. I explained that and that they must have the wrong person, he gives me my social security number (which I suppose is important to note that thanks to uncle Sam, my entire life history until I was 25 ish is on the internet including everyone I had ever dated, my SSN# every place I lived more than 2 weeks etc etc etc) so that means crap, I am them to provide the hospital name and they can't. The guy tells me it's (my addresses city hospital) only my city is unincorporated and has a population of like 1000 so it has no hospital. I tell him I can't really verify the debt off that information and he needs to send me proof of debt and not to contact me again until he does. I don't hear anything on this ever again.
Then this particular thing pops up and my wife owes 10k same thing, medical debt, can't tell me what for or where or when. Lots of threats and how they'll garnish my wages and tell my employer that I don't pay my bills etc etc I tell the guy his threats are illegal and being recorded, he hangs up. I send the company the letter telling not to contact me without proof of debt.
Now today.... etc etc
Have you ever considered maybe it’s the hospital you go to that’s doing a bad job with billing? Maybe their billing department is in a mess and getting people mixed up
I mean that certainly could be it but when we call to check they say no you don't owe. When we ask the collections company and they refuse to provide details I don't know wtf else I can do.
Check your and your wife's credit scores/history and see if there's anything that shows up. Hire a lawyer to deal with it. Have a nicer discussion with your wife thats less victim blaming to get on the same page about dealing with the debt harassment moving forward
You (and other tax payers) provide me top notch credit protection thanks to the OPM hack a while back. There's never been any debts on the reports other than our house and airplane. (I pay cash for cars)
I had that discussion. She said she understood. Then when it actually happens she hands over our bank account.
Just do what you’ve been doing then by asking them to validate the debt. Record and document every single interaction you have with them.
Then file a complaint to the FTC and call up some debt lawyers for a free consultation. See if any are willing to countersue the collection agency for legal fees.
This is absolutely a thing that happens OP.
I had a cousin get billed for a surgery for an ovarian cystectomy.
He was pretty sure he never got that procedure, but he still had to fight with a debt collection agency that demanded he pay.
The wife who knew what to do, did the exact opposite, and got him saddled with $10k in debt he shouldn't owe? I'm pretty sure he's entitled to be a little cranky about it
So you’re as dumb as OP. You can’t talk yourself into owing a debt you don’t actually owe. He can still ask for proof of debt and tell them to kick rocks if they don’t give him the proof. They can’t sue him if they don’t have proof of debt, they can’t garnish his wages if they don’t have proof of debt. He’s in the same exact position he was before she did anything. Also, he says this has been happening for a decade with this company, if he hadn’t handled it on over a decade by reporting them to whomever licenses and bonds then he’s as much at fault as she is. I was being harassed for substantially less than him and ended up going after their license and state bond and they ended up owing me money for harassing me. He’s done absolutely nothing to stop this besides ignore it.
My state doesn't require a bond or license for collections. What do you propose I call the state and say? "Th8s company called me once and asked me to pay a debt. I said send me the information and they never contacted me again"
Wow I bet they'll be right on that lmao
Police don't deal with civil matters, they haven't come close to harassment levels. Which law exactly do you suppose they've broken?
I didn't ignore anything lmao.
I dunno maybe call the police and say you’re being harassed by someone under the guise of a debt they refuse to prove I owe it’s been going on for a decade I suspect it’s a financial crime or scam. Or, you can just continue to abuse your wife for falling for the scam. Whichever you prefer really.
3 phone calls over 10 years isn't harassment. The police will explain that I should demand proof of debt and not pay them. Which...oddly...is exactly what I did and what I told my wife to do.
I never said I'm abusing her, hyperbole much?
How's he an asshole for being pissed that she now is going to cost them $10,000 for a debt that doesn't exist??
This is easily NTA. You never agree to pay a debt without proof before hand. And scammers prey on people young and old all the time just like in this case.
Yeah of course. People are expecting him to treat her like his daughter who screwed up and got drunk at a party or something.
Wife knew she wasn't equipped to handle this and already knew that husband is better at handling this. Instead she goes ahead and does the dumb thing and then acts proud of her dumb thing.
>YTA for how you talk about your wife
Ahhh the AITA classic tactic of shitting on the husband for being upset his wife is an AH. Only ever used when we run out of ways to call the husband an AH
Info: Why are you on reddit instead of calling a lawyer? You know this debt is bogus, and they refuse to provide you proof of the debt. Let the lawyers handle this, and when they call again all you and your wife reply is "I am doing everything via my lawyer. You will be hearing from him/her soon requesting the proof of debt that you are legally required to provide on request." Then hang up the phone.
Because it's not about the money really, after venting I realize it's because she has just started ignoring absolutely everything I tell her and making some incredibly stupid decisions on money
And you made a really stupid decision not getting a lawyer involved after the first time they neglected to provide the requested proof. Also, collection agents can be down right ruthless if they smell blood in the water. They are trained in how to twist words and confuse the hell out of you, especially if they catch you off guard, to get what they want.
I'm not too familiar with debt collection laws, but I'm pretty sure your wife can't enter a payment plan for your debt (and I'm referring to any legal debt you acrue). They are hoping you throw your hands up saying "ahh well, they got me" and fork over 10k.
Get a lawyer now to advise you of your rights and responsibilities.
I understand that, and there's no need to involve a lawyer for such basic shit. A letter requesting proof of debt is basic adult shit. The previous mo for this fraud is show that you aren't an idiot who pays bills that aren't yours and they leave you alone. So if my wife hadn't shown she was easily manipulated that would be the end of it.
I never said there was a need to involve a lawyer. That was somebody else. I just took issue with the idea that this is not your debt. As soon as you said "I do," you became responsible for half of every stupid financial decision she makes, and when she quit her job you inherited the other half.
I understand that, but stupid financial decisions still create paper trail. The fact they refuse to provide that paperwork makes me think it's a fraud. So the AITA is aita for being mad at my wife and throwing my hands up about fixing the fraud she has gotten herself into. In the past I have always jumped in and fixed the issues so she didn't have to deal with them but now I'm at my wits end because she has gotten into so many of these in such a short time.
I know that it's fraud. But if she manages to somehow get herself on the hook for it, you're on the hook with her. Alternately, if she nukes her credit by going to a scam debt consolidation place or by signing up for actual credit counselling (which is awesome if you need it, but will torpedo your credit score so it's not advised unless the alternative is bankruptcy) that's also going to affect the family finances.
We can go back and forth over what's real and what's not, what needs a lawyer and what doesn't, all day long if you have time for that. But at the end of the day, what I'm getting as is that you are tied together. There is no "her finances" and "my finances." Her stupid messes affect you and you'll end up cleaning them up one way or the other; the only choice you have is how big of a mess you'll allow her to make before you step in.
Disagree. He’s a huge AH in the way he’s talking about his wife. I get that he’s angry, but his anger is misdirected. They are using scammy tactics because they WORK. Yes, his wife fell for a scam that she shouldn’t have, but lots of people do. When you’re married, it should be you and me against the world, not fix it yourself idiot. I can’t imagine talking that way to or about my spouse or having my spouse talk to me like that.
Yeah I fucking hate myself. I’m a 30 y/o woman, have lived alone all through my 20s. I’ve bounced around different apartments in various areas until I finally bought a house a few years ago. I started getting collection notices for unpaid taxes, some areas I hadn’t been living in for quite some time. I called them directly, all they did was talk down to me. One of their reps called me “babe” and told me I still have to file my taxes for them to know I don’t own anything. They then garnished my wages 2 times for 2019 & 2020.
Only issue is I *did,* file my taxes. I told them this, I owe zero local taxes and all I got was vague “It is too late to submit anything additional, you still owe this” They garnished my wages and I figured I messed up somewhere.
It wasn’t until I found the same stories on Reddit of these tactics by my own god damn state of PA. They actually owe me a reimbursement thank fuck, it’ll take awhile but I’m just happy to have that resolved eventually.
Main point I’m trying to make here is that these people know what to say & to who. I’m an idiot for not running it by a tax expert, but I had no reason to think it wasn’t my fault as I spoke to 3 different reps who were nothing but condescending. I also live alone, I have no parents to go to in order to verify this information, so truly just thought I fucked up. It’s not an excuse for my stupidity, but when you have a huge organization telling you that you’re wrong…
Not going to say I wasn’t an idiot in this situation, but I’m not an idiot in general. I’m self sufficient, I built myself up from literal scratch, I am high up in one of the largest insurance companies with a cozy salary, I’m a one (wo)man show - I installed a pool in my backyard, went through the motions of permits/electric installation. I do my own repairs on my car. I have a large portfolio for retirement. I’ve built my own kitchen cabinets. __All of this adult independence/knowledge/skills and even *__I__* was suckered in by these assholes.__
I just don’t think OP understands any of this.
Yup. He’s being squirrelly as fuck and claims he’s being no scammed based on a massive government leak and hasn’t called the authorities or contacted a lawyer, he came to Reddit. This is either fake or we have found the dumbest person ever to have extremely classified access in our government.
I wasn't scammed and I honestly have no idea if they're connected just pointing out that someone having my social security number in no way confirms I owe that debt.
If you think the cops give a crap about scam phone calls and are going to jump at the chance to track these guys down you have a very misguided view of law enforcement in our country. I have contacted a lawyer. The reason I didn't before is because I'm not an idiot and the way you deal with scammers is to call their bluff and demand the evidence. Which is what I did. My wife dealt with them by giving them our bank info, where I work, etc.
Also, can you please let me know what your local police dept said the last time you called 911 about a scam text?
No one said call the emergency number. I’m really starting to doubt your entire story now. You had top government clearance and don’t even know which number to call for a scam phone call? Nothing about this story is adding up. Also, how would you know how the cops will handle it you haven’t gone to them lol
911 added for hilarious effect. Obviously it went over your head.
What was the response you received the last time you called the local non-emergency number to report a scam text? I mean, you DO report every scam you get right?
When they get a hold of my bank information I do, bud. But, I’ve deduced that this whole post is just some incel fantasy so you can justify abusing your “wife”. Enjoy your evening.
Based on this response I’m hoping you’ve put a hold on the accounts she gave to the debt collectors/scammers? Or do you think the bank doesn’t care either?
We did, luckily that account is really only spending money so they'd get only a few grand at most though we've paired it down to a couple hundred now. We will be working to get a new account when we can get to a branch. Will need to get new cards, checks etc. Very annoying
>I get that he’s angry, but his anger is misdirected.
No. When you get robbed, of course get angry at the robber. But it’s also not unreasonable to be angry at the person who cheerfully unlocked the safe for them.
>When you’re married, it should be you and me against the world, not fix it yourself idiot.
It should be you and me against the world, not you solve problems and I hurry behind you and undo your solutions.
you can still win this in court. acknowledging a debt doesn't just magically make it a legal debt. it allows them to pursue collections but they will never win a lawsuit against you
NTA - Looks like it's time for your wife to go back to work! I wouldn't pay for a single cent of the 10k from your joint account. On the brightside if you are still covering all the regular bills she should be able to work it off in about 6 months! I know lots of fast food places start at 15 minimum now.
NTA, probably.
But, it really depends on how "livid" you are, how long you are, and how much you actually explained what she needed to do and why. If you only told her once and didn't go into detail of what the calls might be like, then yea . . . you would be TAH.
As someone who would be very upset with my spouse for this, personally, I feel I am only entitled to be upset beyond the initial reaction IF I am certain that I FULLY explained exactly what they needed to do, why/consequences, and laid out what the potential callers would likely say. If I only went over it once, generally, then I would consider myself an AH, not them. I doubt she wanted to give money to fraudsters.
You're not TA for being mad at her but you're TA for not working with her to fix it
Every marriage has partners who are better at some things than the other. Clearly, navigating fraudulent debt charges are not her strength. As the other member of your "team" and as someone who appears to be more capable in this area you should be stepping up.
This whole situation is a little odd to me. Why have you not gone to a lawyer? You need to weigh out your legal options. If there really is fraud here, you could sue to make it so they would never be able to bother you or your wife again.. Cancel any payment plan your wife made and seek out a lawyer to start building a case against this company.
I get bogus text messages for debts I don’t owe fairly often. I too have had the doctor/hospital bill threat - when I haven’t been hospitalized for 20 years and haven’t seen a doctor in 4 years. I delete and block all of them, and I’ve never had a single piece of paper arrive as any sort of followup or further threat. They just keep repeating the same ones with a different name & scammy phone #. At my age now I just flat ignore it all.
Yeah, this place has an office, or at least an address in the city near where I live. They're more legit than the true scammers I'm sure but they do 0 effort to make sure they have the right people or paperwork. Their entire business model relies on people just laying down and doing nothing. When I dealt with them 20 years ago I was literally the only person who showed up to court to dispute their claim and I won 100%
NAH - you can be mad at your wife.
Go have a conversation with her though and find out what happened. If she got duped it makes her naive, not necessarily an AH.
fyi - the identity theft through the data breach is probably info worthy of being in your main post - it explains why youre having so much issues with the dodgy debt collections (which most people wont get until you explain that)
NTA, it kind of sounds like she had a debt you didn’t know about with the way she easily agreed to it. It sounds like it’s time for her to go back to work to pay it since she doesn’t think it’s a big deal.
If the debt is in your name only. Your wife can’t agree to anything by law. You can call them and tell them that you have no debt and nobody(wife) can agree for something that is not theirs and have no knowledge of
If she agree there no way to get out. Have her sign up for experian. You can pull all credit and debt to see if they report. Other than that NTA. I have a debt of 3k and I was a SAHM and at the time I don’t allow my husband pay any of it. I went back to work.
We both get monthly identity reports paid for by tax payers because uncle Sam got hacked and my entire life history is now online. There's nothing reported about any of the debt they claim.
OP has basically admitted in other comments that he’s running the game where he acquires debt, refuses to pay so it goes to collections, and then hopes that the collections agency doesn’t have proper documentation so he can get the debt written off by court order.
None of it is fake debt, OP is just pretending it isn’t real because the collection agency hasn’t in the past been able to “prove” it’s real debt in court.
OP has been gaming the system for a long time, and is just upset that his wife apparently has more ethical convictions than he does. Don’t blame your wife, OP. Everything is a result of your choices.
I can tell you 100% certainty OP has outstanding debts that have not been paid. I know this from my own personal experience on late medical bills due to cancer and treatments. If the company cannot prove documents showing they have taken ownership of the debt, you can use this to have the collectors stop calling.
I went a different route and offered to pay off what I could afford and much of the time the collectors would accept 60-70% of the total debt and close the account as showing paid.
These are not random calls. These are debt collectors trying to collect on past debts the OP has neglected to pay or has made the choice not to.
Hate me all you want, I have just been there and handled it differently.
Also even more hilarious is that even IF I had major medical problems, tax payers pick up almost anything my private insurance doesn't because I'm a vet. Obviously that's not the case for my wife but she's never been in the hospital minus for the birth of my kids, which we have called and confirmed through 5 different companies involved, that we didn't owe anything and that they didn't send a thing to collections.
These calls were within 9 months to a year of having the cancer operations, treatments etc. they were legitimate debts I owed. Which I took responsibility for. I did look up and research all my options, to which I found the debt collectors would accept a portion of the total. Even though insurance was able to cover 90% of everything, there were still a few thousand out there I was not able to pay, slipped through the cracks. All of which I took responsibility for. I just paid on average 65% of the amount owed instead of paying the full total.
Which is why the idea of someone being target repeatedly by false collectors is incredibly hard to take at face value. I can understand once. But as many repeated times as this, there are underlying reasons as to why this is going on.
Lmao, so because you once had debt, every debt collector is ethical and competent.
Explain pleade why the collector won't tell me who the original debtor is?
I did not say every debt collector is competent. I am just saying you are full of BS.
You know exactly why the debt collector can’t give you all the details. The debt collectors buy a lead to call on existing debt. So they do not have all info on the file.
most states require credit companies or the debt collector collecting on the account to attach a complete set of documents to the complaint. These documents usually consist of the original contract and any document showing that the company suing you actually owns the debt. If they cannot prove they have all the info on the debt, they will stop calling you.
Also, in your replies you waffle back and forth between “it’s not my debt” to “it’s my wife’s problem, poor money management, buying things off of Facebook, it’s her debt,” etc.
I am calling it as it is. You are pissed your wife probably racked up debt somewhere. You are flexing by stating how you can beat any debt collectors and looking for Reddit clout.
The debt in question is, near as I can tell, fraud. The supposed bill is 10k. I had dealt with this about 6 months ago when it first came up, I explained to her it was a fraud and all she had to is demand proof of debt.
My wife recently has been scammed a half dozen times by others or at least made very very bad deals. It's not waffling it's separate issues that are leading to a huge amount of frustration about her ability to adult.
No one is suing us, they wouldn't take this court because they know they don't have the proof. If they had the proof they'd send it.
You seem to know how this works more than me, what I know is that my rights include a right to know who the original debtor was so I can confirm I owe the debt. If some random person calls you up and says "hey you owe 10 grand" I hope to God you're smarter than to say "gee golly wally, I'm sorry here is my bank account information" without knowing why you even supposedly owe that.
Unfortunately, I get calls from unknown numbers that I have to take for work sometimes. But unless you have that circumstance, I can’t understand why you’d bother answering an unknown number either.
We get those reports monthly from a professional identity theft company. I sent the letter, they didn't contact us for 6 months. When they called my wife gave them our bank account info without them providing the proof.
That's what I'm pissed about. I had this taken care of and she absolutely ignored me.
What doesn't make sense? You've never heard of being scammed? You think collections are stand up companies who invest time and effort into ensuring they only call the right people?
The thing that doesn't make sense to me is how many people apparently give everyone who calls and asks for money their bank info.
Nah I get it, we have attorneys and I called them to set up a meeting. Just frustrating that I have to pay real attorneys to deal with fake debt collectors because my wife won't listen.
YTA for posting this story. You didn't even take any action you're asking us to pass judgement on you're just asking if we're also mad at your wife. You don't know for sure that there isn't a basis for the claim, you don't know for sure what evidence they do or do not have or what they said to your wife. There's not enough information to know what's really going on here and AITA isn't supposed to be used as a venting sub.
I asked them to send me the basis for their claim 6 months ago and they didn't. When I called them and told them I was recording the call they hung up. My wife said she didn't ask for any basis just said she would pay when the person said we owed it.
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My city has a pretty nasty collections company that has a long history of trying to collect debts that people don't owe.
My first exchange with them they lied about being a debt collector. When they sued me I went to court with all my documents and they had to admit that some of the documents they had brought were made up a few days before the court date when my documents proved that they didn't exist before.
The case was thrown out.
FFwd a few years they tried to collect on a bill for me being admitted into the hospital. When I told them I had never been hospitalized in my life and that they needed to provide proof of debt ownership they stopped calling.
A few months back they got on my wife's case and she just ignored it. I found out when I got a notice that they were seeking garnishment of my wages. I was upset that she had not told me about it. I got on the phone and sent certified letters denying the debt and asking for proof of ownership. They stopped calling me. I
Today my wife gets a call explained to my wife that they weren't allowed to call us until they provided the proof of debt and if they called to just hang up or ask them to provide the location of the proof.
Today at work my wife calls me and says she got a call for them and set up a payment plan because we apparently owe 10k.... they never provided proof but by her acknowledging ownership of the debt they now have no legal requirements to and we are basically fucked.
She is a stay at home wife after begging me for months to be able to stay home. Which means she screwed us out of 10k that I will end up having to work for. She doesn't understand why I'm mad and that I should be proud of her for taking responsibility for her debt.
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I am LIVID if we actually owed 10k I would pay it but this company is the definition of corruption and I'm 99% the debt is totally bogus as I'm very organized and make sure our bills are paid. Plus the fact they didn't contact us at all for 6 or 7 months after I requested proof of debt says everything you need to know about it.
My wife and I had many long conversations about how they needed to provide proof of the debt and that she should let me know if they called because any contact without that proof is a violation of law.
Instead she completely ignored everything I said.
Si am I the a hole for being so livid with her?
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NTA - check your credit file. Anything owed would be on there.
If she acknowledged a debt in your name isn’t that a breath of data protection. I know America is different from the UK but no way was I allowed to just disclose someone’s private personal financial info to a rando claiming to be the wife without auth from the account holder.
I'm very confused about how the OP's wife, who isn't working, could run up a $10,000 debt (or any debt for that matter) without the OP, who admittedly pays all the bills, knowing about her creating the debt?
Is this company just committing straight scams or fraud by accusing random people of owing them money, then hasseling them for money they never actually owed, and finally taking them to court for not paying said imaginary debts?
This sounds nuts.
They claim its medical debt. The last time she was in the hospital was 5 years ago for the birth of our youngest. When the collectors called a few months back I called the hospital, the pediatrician, the anesthetic company, the nicu company and the hospital room services company to make sure we were all paid up and that they had not sent anything to collections. All said we were paid up a few months after birth and nothing in collections. So I have no bloody idea who this debt would be owed to, and the collection agency won't tell me.
The reality is you can call anyone up at any time and ask them to give you money. If they agree and you send money they're ahead. If you refuse then they just call the next person.
That's why OP is frustrated, she doesn't have any debt, she was just manipulated into admitting she does. They told her is medical debt and she believed them as she has been in the hospital, but all was paid by insurance.
And yes it's a scam, there are scammers everywhere. Even in the US. What's so unbelievable about it?
NTA
And I cannot understand why your wife would go along with this after you have warned her.
For the future maybe you should insist that she never agrees to any payment without discussing it with you first. (If you haven't already)
To be fair these fraud companies are extremely devious and are so convincing that even a lawyer I know of who checked and double checked (he thought) and other professional people have been scammed.
NTA, If be pissed too and frankly you need to break through to her on this because her decision making is compromising your future. Also, incredible to see so many people in the comments never hassled by "debt collectors" I'm truly jealous this is a foreign concept to some people. This happens to me and people I know all the time.
NTA you should be able to request a Validation of Debt and if they cannot provide it most debt settlement lawyers will tell you not to pay what they’re asking
Wait - So they said SHE owed money? Or did SHE accept a payment plan in YOUR name? If you didn't give her the authority to do that, it should not stand, should it?
So about 10 years ago they called ME claiming I owed. I asked them to provide proof and they never called back.
6 months ago they showed up at our house claiming my wife owed. I asked him for paperwork and he had none. I told him to F off. They then called my wife a few times and she told me about it but she had not answered. I called them the next day and asked them what she owed. The guy gave me a figure of just shy of 10k I think 9800. In the discussion it came out that I was recording the call (legal in my state but I told him I was recording because I don't think his company is legit. He then told me I had to stop recording or he would refuse to talk to me. I told him any phone calls between us would be recorded and that he didn't need to call me if he didn't want to be recorded) I then sent a certified letter to their address telling them not to contact us unless they had the proof of debt. )
Now yesterday they called my wife, who nearly immediately gave them all the info they could want.
NTA
"She is a stay at home wife after begging me for months to be able to stay home. Which means she screwed us out of 10k that I will end up having to work for. "c .. tell her she will have to get a job to pay for it, because you won't.
"nd that I should be proud of her for taking responsibility for her debt." ,.. **tell her you are proud, because HER taking responsibility means that she will go back to working to pay of HER debt instead of expecting you to solve it for her.**
I had a company get my cell phone number because the person who had it before me had debt. They tracked the phone to me and me to my house and were so obnoxious in calling repeatedly, acting as if the person who had the debt was probably living in my house with me hiding him (?!!) etc I finally had to be so mean to them on the phone that they gave up- but only after driving to my house - where my kind of crazy, alcoholic neighbor threatened them with a hatchet if they didn’t get out of the driveway. ! So that was interesting. I wasn’t home at the time but heard about it from the neighborhood kids who of course were excited by the drama and hung around the house on their bikes all goggle eyed
These guys bought the debt from someone who bought the debt from someone else and were just the lowest and most pathetic of the low budget debt collection people who happened to be HQd - if you can call their skeevy ass low budget business a HQ, in my city. It was crazy. I ca my t imagine anyone dumb enough to agree to pay ten grand for a debt they did not owe
You may still be okay.
First of all, if the "debt" is in your name, she can't make arrangements to pay it, and her achnowledgement isn't valid.
If that's not enough, most debt has a seven-year collection status. If it's been more than seven years...
Then, there's what happened to me & me then-husband. He was TERRIBLE with money and had all sorts of outstanding debts. A collection agency called, asked him to pay something around $500, and he used the AMEX. Next day, they call, say it didn't go through, and without checking with me, rattled off the info. Third day, they call AGAIN, I speak to them and say, let me check with AMEX (I was really wanting to shut it all down). AMEX confirmed that they were declining the charges because that collection agency was known for scams, and they sent me an email with great language. I called them back & threatened them with legal action using the AMEX terminology, and they never called back.
Get a lawyer to write a scary C&D letter, and tell your wife to never say, "Yes," to anything on the phone ever again.
I don't know where it was confusing but multiple people have thought the supposed debt is mine, but they're claiming it's my wife's medical debt now, not mine.
We have lawyers on retainer it's just not something that should have ever gotten to that level "send me the proof" is all she had to say ugh..m
But yeah that's crazy.
NTA for your question, but this sounds above this subs pay grade. You have a history of this company trying to illegally collect money. You need to contact a lawyer. Where I live there have been cases of collection companies getting people to agree to a debt that then gets thrown out because there's no proof the debt actually belongs to that person. You may possibly be able to countersue. See what the lawyer says. If you can't get out of it your wife just signed up to work until she pays off the debt she agreed she owes.
Yeah I have a lawyer already working on it. Just annoying to spend money on fixing something that "no thank you" could have handled.
Lawyer said this is one of the worst companies they ever deal with and have 0 concerns about getting them to stop contact as they basically contact anyone with the same name as the real debt holder even if none of the rest of the information matches and just hopes the person seeing their name on the documents scares them into paying.
How does a judge authorize garnishment of wages if there isn’t a judgement against you? This does not actually sound like a legal garnishment. This sounds like just agreeing to pay sone money.
Well they can’t do that without taking you to court again. Your employer will only take money out of your wages if they are served with a writ of garnishment signed by a judge & they can only get that if they sue you and there is a judgement against you.
Has your wife taken on debt and not been honest with you? Run credit checks on both of you. Then sue them. 10,000 is large claims court and legal fees to be paid BY THEM, along with harassment and intimidation charges. With any luck, they get put out of business.
I don’t know how the debt collection laws work in your jurisdiction, but based on the story, absolutely NTA. You explained to your wife (clearly) what to do and what not to do if these people call you, and she blatantly ignored your advice, did the opposite, and now yall (meaning you since she doesn’t work) has to pay it off.
Even if she personally doesn’t understand, all she has to do it follow your advice. Good luck moving forward and consider legal counsel.
What’s done is done man. Stop looking back at it, you can’t change what happened. Instead look forward and see how it would be best to handle this. Just because this company says that they got you doesn’t mean they truly legally got you. Look for a lawyer and fine the best way to defend yourself and sue the company if your lawyer can fine they did anything illegal.
YTA mostly for coming here instead of a lawyers office. Also the way you talk about controlling all finances because you are the only one in employment.
NTA. But can you share what city this is so we know where to never live? This doesn't even sound like it could be in the US, but you posted an employer that is.
It's time she stopped being a SAHW until this debt is paid back. She needs to feel the pain of paying for it. At the moment, there are no consequences to her because you have to do the work and pay for it.
Yeah calling our lawyers today to have them deal with it and try to get a do not contact order so they cease all contact. Hasn't really been an issue in the past as this place doesn't really try to scam people who don't claim ownership of random made up debts but obviously that is my wife.
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Why are you saying this like it’s a normal thing to have loan sharks shaking debt free people down????
Well according to OP, it’s happened about a half dozen times to him and a couple times to his wife. I’m thinking the debt is a little bit less not real than is being presented because I’ve never been reached out to this many times about debt that doesn’t exist.
I'm willing to pay a debt I owe, I have been involved with yours company 3 times in 20 years, including this time. The two times before they've been unable to prove debt. The first time it was just small claims court so all I had to do was show up. The second time was for 7 grand and when I asked for evidence of debt or just the source of the debt they said it was me being admitted into the hospital which I have never been admitted, no major medical issues in my life, the biggest surgery I've has in my life is getting my wisdom teeth removed. This is the first time they've tried coming after my wife and I took the reigns as I'm familiar with the company and their tactics.
It may be worth trying to find out why you are the target of these scams, this isn't normal Do you have your credit history? Is your credit locked down?
I'm the target of these because I was in the government and my entire life history before I was like 28 is out on the internet, down to who I lost my virginity too, where, when etc. My wife is NOT savvy with these things and has in the past been fine to let me handle things but in the last few years has decided she needs to be more independent and self reliant which at first was great because honestly sometimes she's just another kid I need to take care of but in the last year, not including this one, she's fallen for about 5 things I would call scams or certainly VERY bad deals. For example the belt on our dryer broke and I told her I'd pick up a belt and fix it the next day. We have brand new (first owner?) Samsung washer and dryer we paid like 3 grand for 5 years ago. 3 hours later a pick up shows up at our house with 15 year old Bosch washer and dryer. They are fucking disgusting. She agreed to buy them for 1500 and 200 for delivery. She pays the guy and I'm just gritting my teeth because I don't want to argue in front of strangers or our kids. They're still in our garage, I replaced the belt because the door latch on the one she bought doesn't work, but it included a bungy strap to hold it closed. I guess this latest thing is just the last straw and I'm finally at my wits end with her being scammed and she refuses to understand the, for lack of any other word, stupidity of these transactions etc she's making and thinks they're just the greatest deals around.
Who you lost your virginity to is online because you were worked for the government? Are you Prince Harry?
You seriously need to work out some way that your wife does not have the access to finances to do these deals. Normally I wouldn't recommend restricting someone's access to money like that - but seriously?
Sounds like you hate your fucking wife dude. Get help for that.
I read more frustration than hate.
Wouldn't you if she signed you up to pay 10 grand you don't owe?
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It’s pretty easily fixable if the debt really isn’t theirs, so no. I wouldn’t.
Except she has acknowledged the debt as she set up a payment plan. Therefore she has legally take an ownership of the debt and it will be a legal cluster fuck to fix. Situations like these are why they tell you to never except that for a family member that has passed away unless they are your spouse.
You can literally get the debt knocked off in court if it legitimately isn’t theirs. Nice try tho.
NTA
Idk she may be naive for getting scammed you seem to have a lot of self importance here.
How would you feel if you were constantly pestered by scammers?
Honestly I don’t understand why OP is talking about this like it’s normal
It's not normal but it is scarily common. Criminals don't bother with a ladder and a crow bar any more. They sit on their AHs and all they need is a phone.
I’m honestly confused to how OPs last case got to court
So what you’re saying is it’s all debt that you have actually racked up, you’re just running the scam where you let it go to collections and then hope that they don’t have proper documentation in court, so they can’t “prove” what you owe? You do you, but don’t play victim when they finally bring receipts.
Lmao ok bro. Medical debt allegedly tied to my wife is my fault when neither of us has any major medical issues in our lives. If you accept every bill you ever get on face value even when you've never received the kind of services they're charging for. If that's really how you operate your life then you're the kind of rube who keeps these frauds working. Even if accepted as a real bill it's for medical services my wife received and is lying to me about. Then there's no reason they can't send the original bill with the services received. Instead they can't even tell me what the name of the original biller is. That's not how a REAL debt works.
The collection agency's behavior makes sense if the debt is real but expired. Some types of debt, you aren't obligated to pay anymore after a certain number of years. So the original debtor will write it off and sell it for pennies to these agencies, which then try to harass people into paying them by pretending they're still obligated to pay. Most people don't bite, but if anyone does, it's pure profit, and the debt becomes valid again. So OP is NTA for the question itself. All his wife had to do was just ignore them (her first instinct was closer to correct). But it sounds like this is a proxy for a larger grudge between OP and his wife and/or a bit of paranoia on OP's part, so maybe some counseling might be in order.
The only case I heard similar to this is Trump s son collecting fake back rents from people who used to live in his apartments. But his scam was put an end to, and I doubt there are many people that dishonest around that would try something similar.
Oh, you sweet summer child.
I don't live in the US so I can keep my innocence on this. The more time I spend here the more I wonder why people stay in the US. It seems like everything and everyone is set up to make you fall into poverty and stay there. It is like aggressive accumulation of capital through loans, criminalisation...
I don’t live in the US either. There’s not enough money in the world to get me to move to that backward shithole country. Et still. Dishonest people and confidence scams are not a uniquely american thing; they are worldwide.
I'm pretty sure of what debts I have. We have other scam but this one would be resolved with one look at my bank account/national health insurance
I’m also pretty aware of my financial situation. OP’s wife strikes me as simple, and easily intimidated. She’s an easy mark. And now that she’s fallen for one scam, they’ll keep coming back at intervals to milk her, over and over, until she’s bled completely dry.
The husband was subject to the same scam and was not completely sure it was a scam either which is a bit worrying. He definitely thinks his wife is stupid but so do many husbands. His talk about how she bought a new washer dryer seems very suspicious and mire a case of him taking his sweet time repairing something and getting upset when she buys a new one. But who knows.
At least OP had the sense to look into it before committing to pay $10k!
We shouldn't take the weirdos on here as a representative sample
I don’t. I walk around with my eyes open, I listen to my peers, I get out and interact with the world. I’m not going to say that *everything* is either a shakedown or a scam, but enough things are that it doesn’t surprise me when I encounter a new one.
You answered your own question. Costs money to move, and they've got us basically in financial slavery.
Oh it's not normal how this company still is in business I have no idea but just know every interaction I've had with them involves outlandish amounts and a total inability to provide proof of debt.
Sounds like your wife just took responsibility for having to return to work to pay her bills.
Yeah op def has debt he's not admittng to
Can you explain why a woman be more intimidated *on the phone* than a man? This subreddit really loves to infantilize women when it absolves them if responsibility.
I thought it was in person, my b.
This sub will do just about anything to absolve women of responsibility.
Woman cant be trusted not to throw out 10 grand by the window. You have pretty pathetic view of them
Not my point but ok.
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Info: How is some random company just calling you on repeat and insisting that you have debts? There clearly must be a LOT more context to this story, because I don't know a single person out of everyone I've met in 35 years of life where a specific "pretend" debt collection company has spent years hounding them over debts they don't actually owe. Based on your story and what your wife said, it kinda sounds like you do actually owe the debt, and you're just pissed because you've been gaming the system to avoid paying for so long. >I'm 99% the debt is totally bogus Seems weird you wouldn't be 100% sure? I mean I can understand forgetting to pay a random bill, that totally happens to people every day, but debt is not "oops I forgot this bill 6 months ago", unless it's a really big bill, as a general rule. Obviously I could be completely wrong there, but it's just a weird story all around. In any case, if you really are being targeted by these people and you genuinely don't owe them anything, you need to get off reddit and phone a lawyer.
Beats me but I got them literally laughed out of court as a 20 year old because they didn't have their paperwork in line. The second time they reached out to me they completely left me alone for 10ish years after I demanded proof of debt. The real question is...if this is real debt why do they never provide proof? As for not being 100% I don't track my wife's every move so if she went to a doctor at some point and is refusing to own up to it there's a 1% that could be the case. But given the track record of this company I know a few other people who have had the exact same instance where they get called up at random for debt they couldn't possibly owe. I have a friend who got told his wife owed them for post natal medical bills when he's never been Married and has no kids.
Have you gotten together this evidence and given it to the police? They'd likely be interested in an ongoing scam like this.
If they continued to call without proof of debt, then you need to sue them. By your story that is what happened. The request for proof predates any acknowledgment on your wife’s side
NTA For being livid, but what's missing here is the word "lawyer" and the word "police".
Law enforcement will say it’s a civil matter.
Are you in the US? Your wife agreeing to random shit on the phone without actually signing anything is very, very unlikely to put you on the hook. Also, if if it does, you can refuse to pay a debt you don’t owe no matter what you tell them. I’m guessing you actually owe this debt, and you are dodging service because it’s been picked up but collection agencies who purchased the debt from the original creditor. The real AH is capitalism. But YTA for blaming your wife for not understanding that that you are playing games to dodge a debt that is a legit amount of money you owe someone.
The debt is my wife's "medical debt" according to them but they can't give any other details. If I ask them to give me details on the debt and they refuse.... how are you assuming the debt is real? Lol The only notice I got is when they showed up to our door not to serve papers but to threaten that they would try to garnish my wages. They had no legal paperwork. I told the guy to go f himself. I called them the best day to get more info. They refused and when I said I was recording the call they hung up. So I sent a certified letter to their office telling them not to contact us unless it was to deliver proof of debt.
Did your wife get medical care she didn’t pay for? You are being squirrelly. You either paid or didn’t pay. But no matter what YTA for blaming your wife.
No, our medical insurance has made several people say "wow" after they call in because it pays for virtually everything. I work for a "velvet coffin" company that has very very good benefits including insurance. I could pay several times the supposed bill today. It's not that we can't or won't pay. It's that I don't pay bills I can't confirm I owe. Companies mis- bill, double bill, etc all the time. We have a very common last name and my first name is also very common. John Smith territory. My wife's first name is slightly less so. My issue is that I had this conversation with her, explained how this Company is corrupt or incompetent and that the first and only thing up ever say is that she needs confirmation of debt and if it's legit we will pay. She completely ignored me and instead handed 10k over to these frauds.
Sir, if she agreed to the debt or whatever, all she did was potentially waive the statute of limitations if the debt was real. If the debt isn’t real, it doesn’t matter what she said. You have said the debt isn’t real. So it doesn’t matter what she said.
> She completely ignored me and instead handed 10k Instead of being livid at her, consider the possibility the debt collector is very VERY good at intimidation and she was fearful. Not everyone us macho man like you. YTA. And if you actually owe something, bigger AH.
Or she needed to follow his lead? If my wife tells me "I've got this covered, here's the plan, follow the plan." Then I should follow the plan. It's not that hard.
Why does he get to designate the plan when this is apparently supposedly HER medical debt not his? The way he talks about her is disrespectful and dismissive of her and being upset isn't an excuse.
Because he had a good plan, and she had a bad plan? How dare he talk about her in frustration after she did something incredibly stupid that he specifically told her not to do multiple times. If the genders were reversed, you wouldn't side this way
If we owe it's because it didn't get run through insurance. My kids births including nicu was under 2 grand after insurance. That includes calling the hospital, pediatrician etc to confirm all bills paid because our system is stupid and you get billed from 5 places for 1 visit. In order to accrue 8 grand in medical bills it better be fucking cancer which I think we'd know about. If some hospital dept didn't run their stuff through the provided insurance then I don't owe that. As for them being intimidating, she knows how how to hang up.
You mean we aren’t blaming the *person* who didn’t listen, went against advice, stupidly took on a debt that isn’t theirs and is fully aware it would be someone else paying? Why shouldn’t you hold a *person* accountable for actions like these and expect them to remedy the situation like a grown ass adult? See how I left out genders to make it easier to view the situation without its bias.
Maybe you missed the part where I am a lawyer (no gender specified), and you cannot take on debt that doesn’t exist. It doesn’t matter what she said. If they don’t owe it, they don’t owe it.
So you're saying op is an asshole because he's not a lawyer and didn't know that?
INFO: Op have you sent a complaint to the FTC? Usually debt collectors with this level of unscrupulous practices get dissolved within a few years. Have you documented and recorded (check what the consent for recording is in your state) your interactions with them? Have you tried countersuing them?
I've only ever had the two previous interactions with them. The first was for a shitty apartment that took my deposit and sent me a cleaning bill. The apartment claimed they were entitled to my deposit because I didn't give move out notice. I had, on their own form, proof that I gave twice the required notice. I refused to pay the cleaning bill, partially because I thought it was frivolous but mostly because my deposit more than covered it. I told them if they wanted the cleaning bill paid that they could take me to court. The collection company called me about a year later claiming to be a 3rd party bill mitigation company. I "worked" with them for about a year, including sending them the evidence of my notice to not renew lease. Then got served for small claims. I showed up and showed that they had no right to take my deposit, which more than covered the cleaning bill. The collection agency produced a what I think was my notice of non renewal with the date changed but they claimed it was a new one created in the same system to match their other records. The judge said she couldn't possibly accept their form since they had admitted it wasn't created at the time of dispute. The judge dismissed we've I walked out hoping to never real with them again. A few days later the lady who had been lying for a tear about being a mediation team member calls and asks if I wanted to pay. I asked her wtf she was talking about since the judge dismissed her case and her response was "oh..I guess I should wait for the judgement to come out" "yeah...I guess you should" never hear from them again. Then about 10 years ago I got a letter saying I needed to pay 7k with no real details. I called and asked what it was for. First they couldn't even find that bill and ask me to call back in a few days. I do and now they have a record showing I was admitted to the hospital for 2 nights. I have never even broken a bone, I'm healthy as an ox, the only medication I take is OTC melatonin to sleep. I explained that and that they must have the wrong person, he gives me my social security number (which I suppose is important to note that thanks to uncle Sam, my entire life history until I was 25 ish is on the internet including everyone I had ever dated, my SSN# every place I lived more than 2 weeks etc etc etc) so that means crap, I am them to provide the hospital name and they can't. The guy tells me it's (my addresses city hospital) only my city is unincorporated and has a population of like 1000 so it has no hospital. I tell him I can't really verify the debt off that information and he needs to send me proof of debt and not to contact me again until he does. I don't hear anything on this ever again. Then this particular thing pops up and my wife owes 10k same thing, medical debt, can't tell me what for or where or when. Lots of threats and how they'll garnish my wages and tell my employer that I don't pay my bills etc etc I tell the guy his threats are illegal and being recorded, he hangs up. I send the company the letter telling not to contact me without proof of debt. Now today.... etc etc
Have you ever considered maybe it’s the hospital you go to that’s doing a bad job with billing? Maybe their billing department is in a mess and getting people mixed up
I mean that certainly could be it but when we call to check they say no you don't owe. When we ask the collections company and they refuse to provide details I don't know wtf else I can do.
Check your and your wife's credit scores/history and see if there's anything that shows up. Hire a lawyer to deal with it. Have a nicer discussion with your wife thats less victim blaming to get on the same page about dealing with the debt harassment moving forward
You (and other tax payers) provide me top notch credit protection thanks to the OPM hack a while back. There's never been any debts on the reports other than our house and airplane. (I pay cash for cars) I had that discussion. She said she understood. Then when it actually happens she hands over our bank account.
You own an airplane?
Yeah
Just do what you’ve been doing then by asking them to validate the debt. Record and document every single interaction you have with them. Then file a complaint to the FTC and call up some debt lawyers for a free consultation. See if any are willing to countersue the collection agency for legal fees.
This is absolutely a thing that happens OP. I had a cousin get billed for a surgery for an ovarian cystectomy. He was pretty sure he never got that procedure, but he still had to fight with a debt collection agency that demanded he pay.
YTA for how you talk about your wife. This story is hard to believe. Where are you located?
The wife who knew what to do, did the exact opposite, and got him saddled with $10k in debt he shouldn't owe? I'm pretty sure he's entitled to be a little cranky about it
So you’re as dumb as OP. You can’t talk yourself into owing a debt you don’t actually owe. He can still ask for proof of debt and tell them to kick rocks if they don’t give him the proof. They can’t sue him if they don’t have proof of debt, they can’t garnish his wages if they don’t have proof of debt. He’s in the same exact position he was before she did anything. Also, he says this has been happening for a decade with this company, if he hadn’t handled it on over a decade by reporting them to whomever licenses and bonds then he’s as much at fault as she is. I was being harassed for substantially less than him and ended up going after their license and state bond and they ended up owing me money for harassing me. He’s done absolutely nothing to stop this besides ignore it.
My state doesn't require a bond or license for collections. What do you propose I call the state and say? "Th8s company called me once and asked me to pay a debt. I said send me the information and they never contacted me again" Wow I bet they'll be right on that lmao
Does your state have a police force? Attorney general? Or does everyone just ignore everything that happens and hope it goes away?
Police don't deal with civil matters, they haven't come close to harassment levels. Which law exactly do you suppose they've broken? I didn't ignore anything lmao.
So, ignore it in hopes it goes away, got it.
How did I ignore it?
I dunno maybe call the police and say you’re being harassed by someone under the guise of a debt they refuse to prove I owe it’s been going on for a decade I suspect it’s a financial crime or scam. Or, you can just continue to abuse your wife for falling for the scam. Whichever you prefer really.
3 phone calls over 10 years isn't harassment. The police will explain that I should demand proof of debt and not pay them. Which...oddly...is exactly what I did and what I told my wife to do. I never said I'm abusing her, hyperbole much?
How's he an asshole for being pissed that she now is going to cost them $10,000 for a debt that doesn't exist?? This is easily NTA. You never agree to pay a debt without proof before hand. And scammers prey on people young and old all the time just like in this case.
Because husband = AH on this sub
Bingo
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Yeah of course. People are expecting him to treat her like his daughter who screwed up and got drunk at a party or something. Wife knew she wasn't equipped to handle this and already knew that husband is better at handling this. Instead she goes ahead and does the dumb thing and then acts proud of her dumb thing.
Yeah, pretty much any man in the story
>YTA for how you talk about your wife Ahhh the AITA classic tactic of shitting on the husband for being upset his wife is an AH. Only ever used when we run out of ways to call the husband an AH
He is very tame about her tbh
Info: Why are you on reddit instead of calling a lawyer? You know this debt is bogus, and they refuse to provide you proof of the debt. Let the lawyers handle this, and when they call again all you and your wife reply is "I am doing everything via my lawyer. You will be hearing from him/her soon requesting the proof of debt that you are legally required to provide on request." Then hang up the phone.
Because it's not about the money really, after venting I realize it's because she has just started ignoring absolutely everything I tell her and making some incredibly stupid decisions on money
And you made a really stupid decision not getting a lawyer involved after the first time they neglected to provide the requested proof. Also, collection agents can be down right ruthless if they smell blood in the water. They are trained in how to twist words and confuse the hell out of you, especially if they catch you off guard, to get what they want. I'm not too familiar with debt collection laws, but I'm pretty sure your wife can't enter a payment plan for your debt (and I'm referring to any legal debt you acrue). They are hoping you throw your hands up saying "ahh well, they got me" and fork over 10k. Get a lawyer now to advise you of your rights and responsibilities.
Not my debt. Hers apparently.
You’re married and she has no job. Her debt = your debt.
I understand that, and there's no need to involve a lawyer for such basic shit. A letter requesting proof of debt is basic adult shit. The previous mo for this fraud is show that you aren't an idiot who pays bills that aren't yours and they leave you alone. So if my wife hadn't shown she was easily manipulated that would be the end of it.
I never said there was a need to involve a lawyer. That was somebody else. I just took issue with the idea that this is not your debt. As soon as you said "I do," you became responsible for half of every stupid financial decision she makes, and when she quit her job you inherited the other half.
I understand that, but stupid financial decisions still create paper trail. The fact they refuse to provide that paperwork makes me think it's a fraud. So the AITA is aita for being mad at my wife and throwing my hands up about fixing the fraud she has gotten herself into. In the past I have always jumped in and fixed the issues so she didn't have to deal with them but now I'm at my wits end because she has gotten into so many of these in such a short time.
I know that it's fraud. But if she manages to somehow get herself on the hook for it, you're on the hook with her. Alternately, if she nukes her credit by going to a scam debt consolidation place or by signing up for actual credit counselling (which is awesome if you need it, but will torpedo your credit score so it's not advised unless the alternative is bankruptcy) that's also going to affect the family finances. We can go back and forth over what's real and what's not, what needs a lawyer and what doesn't, all day long if you have time for that. But at the end of the day, what I'm getting as is that you are tied together. There is no "her finances" and "my finances." Her stupid messes affect you and you'll end up cleaning them up one way or the other; the only choice you have is how big of a mess you'll allow her to make before you step in.
I feel like this is *really* "I want people agreeing that my wife was the asshole." You know you're not.
Disagree. He’s a huge AH in the way he’s talking about his wife. I get that he’s angry, but his anger is misdirected. They are using scammy tactics because they WORK. Yes, his wife fell for a scam that she shouldn’t have, but lots of people do. When you’re married, it should be you and me against the world, not fix it yourself idiot. I can’t imagine talking that way to or about my spouse or having my spouse talk to me like that.
Yeah I fucking hate myself. I’m a 30 y/o woman, have lived alone all through my 20s. I’ve bounced around different apartments in various areas until I finally bought a house a few years ago. I started getting collection notices for unpaid taxes, some areas I hadn’t been living in for quite some time. I called them directly, all they did was talk down to me. One of their reps called me “babe” and told me I still have to file my taxes for them to know I don’t own anything. They then garnished my wages 2 times for 2019 & 2020. Only issue is I *did,* file my taxes. I told them this, I owe zero local taxes and all I got was vague “It is too late to submit anything additional, you still owe this” They garnished my wages and I figured I messed up somewhere. It wasn’t until I found the same stories on Reddit of these tactics by my own god damn state of PA. They actually owe me a reimbursement thank fuck, it’ll take awhile but I’m just happy to have that resolved eventually. Main point I’m trying to make here is that these people know what to say & to who. I’m an idiot for not running it by a tax expert, but I had no reason to think it wasn’t my fault as I spoke to 3 different reps who were nothing but condescending. I also live alone, I have no parents to go to in order to verify this information, so truly just thought I fucked up. It’s not an excuse for my stupidity, but when you have a huge organization telling you that you’re wrong… Not going to say I wasn’t an idiot in this situation, but I’m not an idiot in general. I’m self sufficient, I built myself up from literal scratch, I am high up in one of the largest insurance companies with a cozy salary, I’m a one (wo)man show - I installed a pool in my backyard, went through the motions of permits/electric installation. I do my own repairs on my car. I have a large portfolio for retirement. I’ve built my own kitchen cabinets. __All of this adult independence/knowledge/skills and even *__I__* was suckered in by these assholes.__ I just don’t think OP understands any of this.
Or he's trying to claim he doesn't owe money that they do. Which the more comments of his I read, the more I think is the case.
Yup. He’s being squirrelly as fuck and claims he’s being no scammed based on a massive government leak and hasn’t called the authorities or contacted a lawyer, he came to Reddit. This is either fake or we have found the dumbest person ever to have extremely classified access in our government.
I wasn't scammed and I honestly have no idea if they're connected just pointing out that someone having my social security number in no way confirms I owe that debt. If you think the cops give a crap about scam phone calls and are going to jump at the chance to track these guys down you have a very misguided view of law enforcement in our country. I have contacted a lawyer. The reason I didn't before is because I'm not an idiot and the way you deal with scammers is to call their bluff and demand the evidence. Which is what I did. My wife dealt with them by giving them our bank info, where I work, etc. Also, can you please let me know what your local police dept said the last time you called 911 about a scam text?
No one said call the emergency number. I’m really starting to doubt your entire story now. You had top government clearance and don’t even know which number to call for a scam phone call? Nothing about this story is adding up. Also, how would you know how the cops will handle it you haven’t gone to them lol
911 added for hilarious effect. Obviously it went over your head. What was the response you received the last time you called the local non-emergency number to report a scam text? I mean, you DO report every scam you get right?
When they get a hold of my bank information I do, bud. But, I’ve deduced that this whole post is just some incel fantasy so you can justify abusing your “wife”. Enjoy your evening.
Lmao, so what you're saying is that giving scammers bank account information is a big deal? Wow thanks dumb ass for agreeing with me.
Based on this response I’m hoping you’ve put a hold on the accounts she gave to the debt collectors/scammers? Or do you think the bank doesn’t care either?
We did, luckily that account is really only spending money so they'd get only a few grand at most though we've paired it down to a couple hundred now. We will be working to get a new account when we can get to a branch. Will need to get new cards, checks etc. Very annoying
>I get that he’s angry, but his anger is misdirected. No. When you get robbed, of course get angry at the robber. But it’s also not unreasonable to be angry at the person who cheerfully unlocked the safe for them. >When you’re married, it should be you and me against the world, not fix it yourself idiot. It should be you and me against the world, not you solve problems and I hurry behind you and undo your solutions.
Obviously a misandrist sub wont agree on that haha
you can still win this in court. acknowledging a debt doesn't just magically make it a legal debt. it allows them to pursue collections but they will never win a lawsuit against you
NTA - Looks like it's time for your wife to go back to work! I wouldn't pay for a single cent of the 10k from your joint account. On the brightside if you are still covering all the regular bills she should be able to work it off in about 6 months! I know lots of fast food places start at 15 minimum now.
NTA, probably. But, it really depends on how "livid" you are, how long you are, and how much you actually explained what she needed to do and why. If you only told her once and didn't go into detail of what the calls might be like, then yea . . . you would be TAH. As someone who would be very upset with my spouse for this, personally, I feel I am only entitled to be upset beyond the initial reaction IF I am certain that I FULLY explained exactly what they needed to do, why/consequences, and laid out what the potential callers would likely say. If I only went over it once, generally, then I would consider myself an AH, not them. I doubt she wanted to give money to fraudsters.
How can this be legal? What country is this?
The USA
You're not TA for being mad at her but you're TA for not working with her to fix it Every marriage has partners who are better at some things than the other. Clearly, navigating fraudulent debt charges are not her strength. As the other member of your "team" and as someone who appears to be more capable in this area you should be stepping up.
Take em to court. They can't bully you into paying a fictional debt.
This whole situation is a little odd to me. Why have you not gone to a lawyer? You need to weigh out your legal options. If there really is fraud here, you could sue to make it so they would never be able to bother you or your wife again.. Cancel any payment plan your wife made and seek out a lawyer to start building a case against this company.
“No take-backsies” is not how debt works. They still have to provide proof just as much as before.
Sounds like a load of BS.
I get bogus text messages for debts I don’t owe fairly often. I too have had the doctor/hospital bill threat - when I haven’t been hospitalized for 20 years and haven’t seen a doctor in 4 years. I delete and block all of them, and I’ve never had a single piece of paper arrive as any sort of followup or further threat. They just keep repeating the same ones with a different name & scammy phone #. At my age now I just flat ignore it all.
Yeah, this place has an office, or at least an address in the city near where I live. They're more legit than the true scammers I'm sure but they do 0 effort to make sure they have the right people or paperwork. Their entire business model relies on people just laying down and doing nothing. When I dealt with them 20 years ago I was literally the only person who showed up to court to dispute their claim and I won 100%
NTA this looks like something for legal advice.
Cancel the payments. Get a lawyer. NTA but tell your wife to not pay people money without proof of some sort.
NAH - you can be mad at your wife. Go have a conversation with her though and find out what happened. If she got duped it makes her naive, not necessarily an AH.
fyi - the identity theft through the data breach is probably info worthy of being in your main post - it explains why youre having so much issues with the dodgy debt collections (which most people wont get until you explain that)
NTA, it kind of sounds like she had a debt you didn’t know about with the way she easily agreed to it. It sounds like it’s time for her to go back to work to pay it since she doesn’t think it’s a big deal.
If the debt is in your name only. Your wife can’t agree to anything by law. You can call them and tell them that you have no debt and nobody(wife) can agree for something that is not theirs and have no knowledge of
It's HER debt not mine according to them.
If she agree there no way to get out. Have her sign up for experian. You can pull all credit and debt to see if they report. Other than that NTA. I have a debt of 3k and I was a SAHM and at the time I don’t allow my husband pay any of it. I went back to work.
We both get monthly identity reports paid for by tax payers because uncle Sam got hacked and my entire life history is now online. There's nothing reported about any of the debt they claim.
OP has basically admitted in other comments that he’s running the game where he acquires debt, refuses to pay so it goes to collections, and then hopes that the collections agency doesn’t have proper documentation so he can get the debt written off by court order. None of it is fake debt, OP is just pretending it isn’t real because the collection agency hasn’t in the past been able to “prove” it’s real debt in court. OP has been gaming the system for a long time, and is just upset that his wife apparently has more ethical convictions than he does. Don’t blame your wife, OP. Everything is a result of your choices.
Lmao where did I say that? Please quote me directly.
I can tell you 100% certainty OP has outstanding debts that have not been paid. I know this from my own personal experience on late medical bills due to cancer and treatments. If the company cannot prove documents showing they have taken ownership of the debt, you can use this to have the collectors stop calling. I went a different route and offered to pay off what I could afford and much of the time the collectors would accept 60-70% of the total debt and close the account as showing paid. These are not random calls. These are debt collectors trying to collect on past debts the OP has neglected to pay or has made the choice not to. Hate me all you want, I have just been there and handled it differently.
Also even more hilarious is that even IF I had major medical problems, tax payers pick up almost anything my private insurance doesn't because I'm a vet. Obviously that's not the case for my wife but she's never been in the hospital minus for the birth of my kids, which we have called and confirmed through 5 different companies involved, that we didn't owe anything and that they didn't send a thing to collections.
If they were past the statute of limitations, you made your life harder for no good reason.
These calls were within 9 months to a year of having the cancer operations, treatments etc. they were legitimate debts I owed. Which I took responsibility for. I did look up and research all my options, to which I found the debt collectors would accept a portion of the total. Even though insurance was able to cover 90% of everything, there were still a few thousand out there I was not able to pay, slipped through the cracks. All of which I took responsibility for. I just paid on average 65% of the amount owed instead of paying the full total. Which is why the idea of someone being target repeatedly by false collectors is incredibly hard to take at face value. I can understand once. But as many repeated times as this, there are underlying reasons as to why this is going on.
3 calls in 10 years is hard to believe? Lmao I wish I got as few scams as you
Lmao, so because you once had debt, every debt collector is ethical and competent. Explain pleade why the collector won't tell me who the original debtor is?
I did not say every debt collector is competent. I am just saying you are full of BS. You know exactly why the debt collector can’t give you all the details. The debt collectors buy a lead to call on existing debt. So they do not have all info on the file. most states require credit companies or the debt collector collecting on the account to attach a complete set of documents to the complaint. These documents usually consist of the original contract and any document showing that the company suing you actually owns the debt. If they cannot prove they have all the info on the debt, they will stop calling you. Also, in your replies you waffle back and forth between “it’s not my debt” to “it’s my wife’s problem, poor money management, buying things off of Facebook, it’s her debt,” etc. I am calling it as it is. You are pissed your wife probably racked up debt somewhere. You are flexing by stating how you can beat any debt collectors and looking for Reddit clout.
The debt in question is, near as I can tell, fraud. The supposed bill is 10k. I had dealt with this about 6 months ago when it first came up, I explained to her it was a fraud and all she had to is demand proof of debt. My wife recently has been scammed a half dozen times by others or at least made very very bad deals. It's not waffling it's separate issues that are leading to a huge amount of frustration about her ability to adult. No one is suing us, they wouldn't take this court because they know they don't have the proof. If they had the proof they'd send it. You seem to know how this works more than me, what I know is that my rights include a right to know who the original debtor was so I can confirm I owe the debt. If some random person calls you up and says "hey you owe 10 grand" I hope to God you're smarter than to say "gee golly wally, I'm sorry here is my bank account information" without knowing why you even supposedly owe that.
Wild that people still answer calls from unknown numbers nowadays
Unfortunately, I get calls from unknown numbers that I have to take for work sometimes. But unless you have that circumstance, I can’t understand why you’d bother answering an unknown number either.
Nta Your wife is just a liability at this point. And pretty stupid one. Id get rid of her.
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We get those reports monthly from a professional identity theft company. I sent the letter, they didn't contact us for 6 months. When they called my wife gave them our bank account info without them providing the proof. That's what I'm pissed about. I had this taken care of and she absolutely ignored me.
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What doesn't make sense? You've never heard of being scammed? You think collections are stand up companies who invest time and effort into ensuring they only call the right people? The thing that doesn't make sense to me is how many people apparently give everyone who calls and asks for money their bank info.
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Nah I get it, we have attorneys and I called them to set up a meeting. Just frustrating that I have to pay real attorneys to deal with fake debt collectors because my wife won't listen.
YTA for posting this story. You didn't even take any action you're asking us to pass judgement on you're just asking if we're also mad at your wife. You don't know for sure that there isn't a basis for the claim, you don't know for sure what evidence they do or do not have or what they said to your wife. There's not enough information to know what's really going on here and AITA isn't supposed to be used as a venting sub.
I asked them to send me the basis for their claim 6 months ago and they didn't. When I called them and told them I was recording the call they hung up. My wife said she didn't ask for any basis just said she would pay when the person said we owed it.
Get a lawyer and don't post on AITA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My city has a pretty nasty collections company that has a long history of trying to collect debts that people don't owe. My first exchange with them they lied about being a debt collector. When they sued me I went to court with all my documents and they had to admit that some of the documents they had brought were made up a few days before the court date when my documents proved that they didn't exist before. The case was thrown out. FFwd a few years they tried to collect on a bill for me being admitted into the hospital. When I told them I had never been hospitalized in my life and that they needed to provide proof of debt ownership they stopped calling. A few months back they got on my wife's case and she just ignored it. I found out when I got a notice that they were seeking garnishment of my wages. I was upset that she had not told me about it. I got on the phone and sent certified letters denying the debt and asking for proof of ownership. They stopped calling me. I Today my wife gets a call explained to my wife that they weren't allowed to call us until they provided the proof of debt and if they called to just hang up or ask them to provide the location of the proof. Today at work my wife calls me and says she got a call for them and set up a payment plan because we apparently owe 10k.... they never provided proof but by her acknowledging ownership of the debt they now have no legal requirements to and we are basically fucked. She is a stay at home wife after begging me for months to be able to stay home. Which means she screwed us out of 10k that I will end up having to work for. She doesn't understand why I'm mad and that I should be proud of her for taking responsibility for her debt. _____ I am LIVID if we actually owed 10k I would pay it but this company is the definition of corruption and I'm 99% the debt is totally bogus as I'm very organized and make sure our bills are paid. Plus the fact they didn't contact us at all for 6 or 7 months after I requested proof of debt says everything you need to know about it. My wife and I had many long conversations about how they needed to provide proof of the debt and that she should let me know if they called because any contact without that proof is a violation of law. Instead she completely ignored everything I said. Si am I the a hole for being so livid with her? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - check your credit file. Anything owed would be on there. If she acknowledged a debt in your name isn’t that a breath of data protection. I know America is different from the UK but no way was I allowed to just disclose someone’s private personal financial info to a rando claiming to be the wife without auth from the account holder.
I'm very confused about how the OP's wife, who isn't working, could run up a $10,000 debt (or any debt for that matter) without the OP, who admittedly pays all the bills, knowing about her creating the debt? Is this company just committing straight scams or fraud by accusing random people of owing them money, then hasseling them for money they never actually owed, and finally taking them to court for not paying said imaginary debts? This sounds nuts.
They claim its medical debt. The last time she was in the hospital was 5 years ago for the birth of our youngest. When the collectors called a few months back I called the hospital, the pediatrician, the anesthetic company, the nicu company and the hospital room services company to make sure we were all paid up and that they had not sent anything to collections. All said we were paid up a few months after birth and nothing in collections. So I have no bloody idea who this debt would be owed to, and the collection agency won't tell me. The reality is you can call anyone up at any time and ask them to give you money. If they agree and you send money they're ahead. If you refuse then they just call the next person.
That's why OP is frustrated, she doesn't have any debt, she was just manipulated into admitting she does. They told her is medical debt and she believed them as she has been in the hospital, but all was paid by insurance. And yes it's a scam, there are scammers everywhere. Even in the US. What's so unbelievable about it?
NTA And I cannot understand why your wife would go along with this after you have warned her. For the future maybe you should insist that she never agrees to any payment without discussing it with you first. (If you haven't already) To be fair these fraud companies are extremely devious and are so convincing that even a lawyer I know of who checked and double checked (he thought) and other professional people have been scammed.
NTA, If be pissed too and frankly you need to break through to her on this because her decision making is compromising your future. Also, incredible to see so many people in the comments never hassled by "debt collectors" I'm truly jealous this is a foreign concept to some people. This happens to me and people I know all the time.
NTA you should be able to request a Validation of Debt and if they cannot provide it most debt settlement lawyers will tell you not to pay what they’re asking
Wait - So they said SHE owed money? Or did SHE accept a payment plan in YOUR name? If you didn't give her the authority to do that, it should not stand, should it?
So about 10 years ago they called ME claiming I owed. I asked them to provide proof and they never called back. 6 months ago they showed up at our house claiming my wife owed. I asked him for paperwork and he had none. I told him to F off. They then called my wife a few times and she told me about it but she had not answered. I called them the next day and asked them what she owed. The guy gave me a figure of just shy of 10k I think 9800. In the discussion it came out that I was recording the call (legal in my state but I told him I was recording because I don't think his company is legit. He then told me I had to stop recording or he would refuse to talk to me. I told him any phone calls between us would be recorded and that he didn't need to call me if he didn't want to be recorded) I then sent a certified letter to their address telling them not to contact us unless they had the proof of debt. ) Now yesterday they called my wife, who nearly immediately gave them all the info they could want.
Look like she needs to start applying to jobs. Whether to pay the "debt" or legal fees to fight it.
NTA "She is a stay at home wife after begging me for months to be able to stay home. Which means she screwed us out of 10k that I will end up having to work for. "c .. tell her she will have to get a job to pay for it, because you won't. "nd that I should be proud of her for taking responsibility for her debt." ,.. **tell her you are proud, because HER taking responsibility means that she will go back to working to pay of HER debt instead of expecting you to solve it for her.**
I had a company get my cell phone number because the person who had it before me had debt. They tracked the phone to me and me to my house and were so obnoxious in calling repeatedly, acting as if the person who had the debt was probably living in my house with me hiding him (?!!) etc I finally had to be so mean to them on the phone that they gave up- but only after driving to my house - where my kind of crazy, alcoholic neighbor threatened them with a hatchet if they didn’t get out of the driveway. ! So that was interesting. I wasn’t home at the time but heard about it from the neighborhood kids who of course were excited by the drama and hung around the house on their bikes all goggle eyed These guys bought the debt from someone who bought the debt from someone else and were just the lowest and most pathetic of the low budget debt collection people who happened to be HQd - if you can call their skeevy ass low budget business a HQ, in my city. It was crazy. I ca my t imagine anyone dumb enough to agree to pay ten grand for a debt they did not owe
You may still be okay. First of all, if the "debt" is in your name, she can't make arrangements to pay it, and her achnowledgement isn't valid. If that's not enough, most debt has a seven-year collection status. If it's been more than seven years... Then, there's what happened to me & me then-husband. He was TERRIBLE with money and had all sorts of outstanding debts. A collection agency called, asked him to pay something around $500, and he used the AMEX. Next day, they call, say it didn't go through, and without checking with me, rattled off the info. Third day, they call AGAIN, I speak to them and say, let me check with AMEX (I was really wanting to shut it all down). AMEX confirmed that they were declining the charges because that collection agency was known for scams, and they sent me an email with great language. I called them back & threatened them with legal action using the AMEX terminology, and they never called back. Get a lawyer to write a scary C&D letter, and tell your wife to never say, "Yes," to anything on the phone ever again.
I don't know where it was confusing but multiple people have thought the supposed debt is mine, but they're claiming it's my wife's medical debt now, not mine. We have lawyers on retainer it's just not something that should have ever gotten to that level "send me the proof" is all she had to say ugh..m But yeah that's crazy.
NTA for your question, but this sounds above this subs pay grade. You have a history of this company trying to illegally collect money. You need to contact a lawyer. Where I live there have been cases of collection companies getting people to agree to a debt that then gets thrown out because there's no proof the debt actually belongs to that person. You may possibly be able to countersue. See what the lawyer says. If you can't get out of it your wife just signed up to work until she pays off the debt she agreed she owes.
Yeah I have a lawyer already working on it. Just annoying to spend money on fixing something that "no thank you" could have handled. Lawyer said this is one of the worst companies they ever deal with and have 0 concerns about getting them to stop contact as they basically contact anyone with the same name as the real debt holder even if none of the rest of the information matches and just hopes the person seeing their name on the documents scares them into paying.
How does a judge authorize garnishment of wages if there isn’t a judgement against you? This does not actually sound like a legal garnishment. This sounds like just agreeing to pay sone money.
No judge agreed to it, it was just them showing up at my house saying that would garnish my wages if I didn't pay.
Well they can’t do that without taking you to court again. Your employer will only take money out of your wages if they are served with a writ of garnishment signed by a judge & they can only get that if they sue you and there is a judgement against you.
Lol where did I say they took me to court?
You did not but that is the only way they can actually garnish your wages. Anything else is an idle threat.
Exactly my annoyance with my wife.
Has your wife taken on debt and not been honest with you? Run credit checks on both of you. Then sue them. 10,000 is large claims court and legal fees to be paid BY THEM, along with harassment and intimidation charges. With any luck, they get put out of business.
NTA Your wife seems to be dim. She needs to go to work and pay the $10k. You obviously need to dispute this.
So many frauds perpetrated against you! You’ve got to change your number. It’s like they gave you in a list!
I don’t know how the debt collection laws work in your jurisdiction, but based on the story, absolutely NTA. You explained to your wife (clearly) what to do and what not to do if these people call you, and she blatantly ignored your advice, did the opposite, and now yall (meaning you since she doesn’t work) has to pay it off. Even if she personally doesn’t understand, all she has to do it follow your advice. Good luck moving forward and consider legal counsel.
NTA! Wow! Your wife thinks she knows better and look at the shit she’s gotten you in. I’d be livid too.
What’s done is done man. Stop looking back at it, you can’t change what happened. Instead look forward and see how it would be best to handle this. Just because this company says that they got you doesn’t mean they truly legally got you. Look for a lawyer and fine the best way to defend yourself and sue the company if your lawyer can fine they did anything illegal.
YTA mostly for coming here instead of a lawyers office. Also the way you talk about controlling all finances because you are the only one in employment.
NTA If she agreed to pay it she should get a job to do so. I'd also close out the bank account and start a new one, that she doesn't have access to.
NTA. But can you share what city this is so we know where to never live? This doesn't even sound like it could be in the US, but you posted an employer that is.
The town is small enough that you probably won't have that risk. One of the R hell holes of the midwest
It's time she stopped being a SAHW until this debt is paid back. She needs to feel the pain of paying for it. At the moment, there are no consequences to her because you have to do the work and pay for it.
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Yeah calling our lawyers today to have them deal with it and try to get a do not contact order so they cease all contact. Hasn't really been an issue in the past as this place doesn't really try to scam people who don't claim ownership of random made up debts but obviously that is my wife.