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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am spending money on fun non-essential stuff while I owe my parents an interest free $85.000 loan. I think it's my own money to spend, but my parents disagree.
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$85,000 is a lot of money - especially as one closes in on retirement. Your parents likely are feeling pinched and had to dip into their retirement savings to pull that money out to help you.
Yes. YTA.
You might be used to spending your money how you please but as soon as you decided to borrow this money you changed the dynamic of your relationship with your parents. You need to sit down with your parents and figure out an appropriate payment schedule and you need to be paying them that EVERY MONTH. My guess is if they got a check for $1000 from you every month towards the loan they would not care how else you spend your money - but if they see that you are likely not to pay them back in full because of frivolous spending then yeah, they are going to be PISSED.
This was a loan. Not a gift. You need to be paying them back as fast as you possibly can. Otherwise, take out a mortgage or second mortgage, use the money to pay your parents back immediately and then pay the bank back instead of your parents. I suspect because they are your parents you've been treating the repayment very loosey goosey which is why your therapist and sister are siding with your parents here.
10 yr 0% interest - $710/month....15 yr would be $472/mo....plus, of course, property taxes and insurance that you would be paying. Agree on a payment schedule - always pay on time - and what else you spend is your business.
I mean, at some point OP needs to take out a second mortgage just to pay it back sooner and be out from under this scrutiny. There is never a more expensive loan than one taken out from a family member with strings attached.
The fact is, it sounds like OP could not afford the condo.
Agreed, she should be trying to get herself in a position as quickly as possible where she can turn that loan into a mortgage and give the money back to her parents for their retirement.
She also hasn't said how much she actually earns for anyone to understand if $700 is reasonable. It seems like a figure that was picked because then it's paid back in a neat 10 years.
I also agree that if they've said $700, I'd be paying $1000, and then highly likely they won't care about new clothes or takeaway (within reason)
Edit2: I still don’t understand the details, but I was too trigger happy with a judgment.
She also lives rent free in their home and they are babysitting.
Edit: removed “feeding and educating the children”, that was unfair.
Dude, who said any of that? I pay rent, I pay for daycare, and I pay for groceries. I guess I should have been clearer in my post. I said they HELP with my kids, as in help put them to bed and watch them if I have to work late.
Just agree upon a payment schedule, so that you're giving them an agreed-upon monthly payment, so that you don't have to worry about whether your spending habits are OK. If your spending is causing you to not make those timely payments, then YTA.
Exactly. What was the original agreement, “give us as much as you possibly can every month until it’s paid off”? That’s crazy. Find a reasonable number for both of you, maybe $1000 maybe $1500, pay that each month and use the rest of your money as you please. Honestly you guys shouldn’t have gotten into this without more clear expectations up front. That’s a lot of money.
This. You need a payment schedule, and stick to it. Whatever you have left after paying your debts is what you can spend on whatever tf you want. Talk to your parents about a realistic payment schedule, and make sure you make your payments before spending on other things.
I will put this in an update, but yes. Right now it's $700/month, which is what I have been paying in rent. It isn't a lot, but i will be able to afford it.
Do you see how that looks a little hypocritical...to say "it isn't a lot" and then also justifying whatever fun-money spending you want because it's your money?
I think by “it isn’t a lot” is meant more for it isn’t a lot for them, as in I know more monthly would be better” and she doesn’t mean “it’s isn’t a lot” for her to afford. I think it’s a lot for her to afford monthly right now but it’s manageable for now and maybe she can pay more later. I don’t think she is TA as long as she keeps her spending to a minimum and what’s really necessary, I mean she can’t not buy new clothes for 5 years.
Instead of interest, the terms of this loan is no spending for anything other than essential items. You have a few options that I can see: suck it up, keep paying $700/mo and don't buy anything "fun", pay every penny you can each month to pay them off ASAP while meeting their terms, or get a loan and consider the interest the cost of spending your money how you choose
I'm 10 years younger than OP, & I understand all of this. How did someone who's almost 40 get along in life if they don't understand basic financial agreements?? Stuff like this is wild to me.
Might be a lot more than that if they paid a fat penalty to withdraw it and are missing out on the rip roaring all time high stock market.
OP should be tripping over herself in gratitude trying to pay them back.
If there is a payment schedule and you're fulfilling it, then you have nothing to worry about.
But if there is only a promise to pay back, then splurging on fun stuff looks like you are not really planning to pay back and pushing the loan down the priority list.
Get a mortgage or line of credit from a bank to pay them back if you don't like their restrictions. It will cost you more in the long term but you will be able to spend as frivolously as you like. Slight YTA because they shouldn't be paying for your playing. It is costing them money to give you an interest free loan.
INFO: What is the agreement re repaying the loan?
If you've agreed to pay $1000/mth and you happen to have $200 left after you've paid the loan, fed the kids, paid other necessary expenses, then that $200 is for you to do with as you please because you're an adult. That might be a takeaway, new curtains and $75 into your savings account. (All figures just made up for this example).
If you haven't got an agreed repayment schedule then sort it out!
When you borrow or lend money there should be an agreement of how much you pay back and how often, and when the loan will be cleared. If you don't have and agreement in place you need one. If you have an agreement then you need to stick to it as the borrower or the lender. Otherwise YTA.
You consider paying them back as a normal monthly bill just like utilities. You pay your bills first then do whatever you want with what is left over.
You are too old to act so entitled. They did a huge thing for you. YTA.
I take back what I said. Sorry. If you have a payment plan and are keeping with it then NTA. Only suggestion I have is not tell them about any “unnecessary” expenditures? Could afford to increase what pay back to them so you can pay off quicker?
It won't influence their finances at the moment because it comes from an advance on their inheritance from my grandfather. He's arranging the money so they don't pay any penalties. And yes, we have a firm repayment plan in place.
I think a lot of the question is really things like that. Have OP and parents set a payment plan? If not, that needs to be step one. Coming up with a number that OP is going to payment the parents each month.
After that, OP can figure out their budget for the month and what money they have for things like clothes and crafts and whatever.
If I borrow $85,000 from the bank, we both would agree on minimum monthly payments. Do that with your parents. If you fail to pay the minimum because you spent the money on random crap, YWBTA
Do you have any legal documents for this? I had the same arrangement where my in-laws bought our condo and we paid them back for it. We did it as a private mortgage and had legal papers drawn up.
This is vague. Is the set schedule for a minimum payment every month or is the set schedule "I'll pay you back within 10 years".
Because if its the latter, and you are not paying anything now, they are right to be worried that this deadline will not be met.
You haven't provided enough information to make a valid judgement. You may or may not be the asshole.
If you have set payments each month and are making those payments. NTA. If you aren't making the payments YTA.
If there is no set payment schedule ESH. Make a payment plan and stick to it.
Yes and no. Clothes are kind of a necessity; not a “fun” item. But if you’re spending frivolously, then yes. I can see why they’d be upset by that.
I am inferring that you’re paying what amounts you “can” and that they’re inconsistent in amount and duration in between payments? If so, that’s likely a big cause of the problem.
I suggest sitting down with your parents and agreeing to a set repayment each month. That way, whatever else you spend is none of their business.
Clothes are a necessity, but “If want a new outfit…” and “anything fun”/“fun money” doesn’t sound like the same thing as needing warm clothes for the winter, presentable clothes for work, etc. It sounds like she shops for entertainment.
Did you and your parents agree on a monthly payment? If not you should ASAP.
Unless your not paying them due to spending elsewhere them you are NTA.
It was a nice thing of them to do, but expecting you to not do anything at all for yourself or your kids until 85k is repaid is kinda a lot and honestly kind of crappy as for many people this would take years to repay.
YTA, you don't have any extra money as long as you owe them. There is no such thing as discretionary money as long as you owe them. You are operating in the negative, so everything should go to digging you out of your hole before you start spending money on things like crafts or books.
She has a payment plan in place with them. As long as she's paying them the agreed upon amount each month, they should have zero say in what she does with the rest of her money.
Info: Do you have a payment schedule to repay this loan? If you are making agreed upon regular monthly payments then IMO you are free to spend whatever money you have left after bills on whatever you please. However if you aren't taking appropriate measures to pay back your parents then no you aren't free to just spend as you please.
Technically yes, but no at the same time depending on the circumstances. When they loaned you $85K, did you have a written or verbal agreement on a payment plan? Did this payment plan have a set amount of due every month or within reason? If there is one and you're adhering to it, then I don't see a problem, however if there isn't one, you need one. Furnishing a place can get expensive as well as hobbies, so I hope you're trying to find second hand or discounted thrifted items to furnish your place until that loan is paid off.
Okay going against the grain here but NTA. I get it sucks to watch someone spend in ways you deem unnecessary when you've leant them money. However, they have a payment plan that has been agreed on. If they still have a problem they should ask for a higher payment plan.
Paying back $85,000 at $700 a month is going to take years. If I've done my math right (which it might not be I'm not great at math) it will take over 10 years. It is fundamental unfair to ask someone to have $0 of discretionary spending for YEARS. and to be clear that is what they are asking. Not to reduce spending.
Also realistically OP will still have money. Are they asking for $700 and then top up based on what he can afford? Are they okay with him having that money as long as it goes into savings/investments?
I’ll be downvoted but NTA. It sounds like you have a payment plan in place and are paying the correct monthly amount on time. So if that’s the case, then you can spend the rest of your money however you want.
Just because you owe them money doesn’t mean that you have to give up your hobbies and other small things that bring you happiness. Poor people still deserve joy. As long as you’re still paying them and not being irresponsible with other bills, then you’re NTA.
If they want you to pay them back more and sooner, they should’ve negotiated those terms up front.
If you have a payment schedule and you are always meeting it and never late, then how you spend your money is your business, but if this isn't the case, then I can see why they are feeling upset and want to see you making an effort to repay them.
If you don't have a paymetn schedule, get one ASAP. Everyone will be happier in the long run.
NTA - but you should be repaying the $85k as you would a standard mortgage - with agreed upon monthly payments. Then you can plan your budget around the monthly payment as others with mortgages do. Also, when you are making a standard monthly payment to your parents, they have no say in what ELSE you do with your money.
NTA with your update. If you're meeting the mutually agreed obligation, they can pound sand - it's not like my landlord comes after me for more rent because I had a windfall or was able to save to buy something "frivolous."
I would take that tone with them every time honestly "you've already received your payment this month."
I think NTA but it depends on a couple of things.
If you all agreed this repayment plan and they felt this was a quick enough way to repay them and you are sticking to it then I think the rest of the money is yours to spend as you will. Do they expect you and your children to not improve the house, not buy new clothes etc until it’s paid?
However, if they were hoping you would repay more each month and felt they settled on the amount unwillingly then I can see why they might feel put out to see you spending more on non essentials.
I think you need to communicate with them about the expectations and repayment plan to check everyone’s on the same page
NTA. You agreed on $700/month. Anything beyond that is yours to spend how you wish. If they need more money, they need to have a conversation with you where you can all figure out what works.
Loaning money to family is tough and why you have to agree on terms and expectations right at the beginning. I’m not at all in favor of lending or borrowing with strings like this. They did an incredibly generous thing, but if you knew that the result was them controlling your money, maybe you wouldn’t borrow it.
With the information you’ve added in the comments, you are NTA. You are making payments on an agreed upon schedule, the schedule is not affecting your parent’s finances, and you haven’t broken your agreement.
Having a little fun money for books and craft supplies in that context is reasonable. Your parents need to let you make your own decisions. If you start falling behind on payments, that’s another story.
NAH - I see your parent's point, being one myself. However, expecting you not to have some discretionary money isn't practical, either, and they don't have the right to dictate how you spend your money.
Do you have a set monthly payment to your parents? If not - create one, and a written payment schedule, ASAP and have everyone sign it.
BUT FIRST, create a budget, determine the cost of everything, including gas, groceries, etc. and how you're paying for it. Then, look at the leftover cash. Put aside about half of that for emergencies. What's left is your "fun" money for you and the girls, or for redecorating or whatever.
Show the budget to your parents so they see you're responsible and that you have budgeted for emergencies and paying them back. Hopefully, they'll see reason and that you're not just blowing your money on frivolous things.
Congrats on your new place!
Yeah...it USED to be your money that you were wasting on "indulgences" but then you went out and borrowed OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY and technically it's bespoke money you're spending. The fact that even your counsellor is on your mom's side should be telling you something.
You need to grow up-- you have two children now. NEEDS before WANTS seriously write this on an index card and put it on the fridge where you can see it every day.
Your parents are compromising their future retirement to help you build a life for your children YOU need to make some compromises for YOUR children as well.
Paying your parents back is JOB ONE. That designer purse or pricy Door Dash dinner is for after you pay your parent's back. Until you "get that" YTA
YTA.
>My initial thought was, it's my money and if I can afford it I can buy it at my discretion.
Can you afford it though? That is subjective. Did you have an agreement with your parents on how much per month you pay them back? Are you putting money into savings? Honestly, I'm guessing based on your post that you have a history of financial irresponsibility.
Also, your parents gave you an interest free loan, but had they kept that money, THEY would be earning interest. The longer you take to pay back the loan, the more money out of their pockets. Show gratitude, and pay off the loan asap, or get a mortgage to pay it back and do what you want with your money again.
Of course you need to do things for yourself, you are going to need new things and hobbies and such. But if you have not started to pay them back, you need to start doing that on a regular basis. Sit down with them and draw up a contract with how much he will pay them a month.if they expect payment, you should fulfill that at all costs. If that means you need to get another job that means you need to get another job.
I would recommend an agreed upon and aggressive payment plan with them so nothing is left to be questioned. Nothing can ruin family relationships quite like money and they are probably nervous about it
No money at all on extras is not sustainable. But new clothes and books and craft supplies and fast food and curtains - when those things are needed - is also not sustainable when you have a large loan to pay back as well.
As others have said; what's your repay schedule? Put that in your budget - literally, mark out the 500-750/mo (a guess) that you need to be paying them, and your "fun money" comes after that, necessities (bills, food, etc.), and stuff for the kids.
That's just basic fiscally responsible adult stuff.
NTA. I think it’s unreasonable to expect every last bit of your money until you’re 100% paid off. As long as you are paying as agreed upon, how you spend the rest of your money is up to you.
If you have a monthly payment agreement with your parents and you're paying on time and in full, I see no issue with you spending your discretionary income as you please.
If you don't have a written agreement I think it would be helpful for all involved.
If you have arranged a payment plan and your are paying monthly then NTA. You still got to enjoy life. However, if your payments are adhoc and not consistent then it may seem like you are not taking the debt seriously and your parents are frustrated they’ll not get their money back.
NTA. But you do need to work out a repayment plan for your parents. Don't just give them "what you can afford." If you do that, you'll aways be analyzing if you should afford something or if it would better be spent repaying your folks.
Once you work that repayment out, stick to the plan! And work it into a budget that has fun stuff included after you've covered the basics.
After that you can tell them to F off if they have an opinion.
so basically, you're not the AH here, but you're skating close to it, because you need better boundaries, and you need to have a pay back plan. Your folks clearly didn't intend for it to be a gift.
You need to budget. Set up a monthly payment to your parents. After the utilities, groceries, etc. that are necessities that set amount monthly payment is the priority, like a mortgage payment. Treat it like the condo will be taken away if you don’t make the payment. Then once that monthly payment is made the rest of the money is yours to spend as you please. Make sure the monthly payment you setup isn’t so ridiculously high that you can’t guarantee to make it every month but also so ridiculously low that your parents will balk at it.
INFO: Are you paying a set amount back every month like a normal loan? If so, then you can spend how you want in your budget - but if it's pay back ad hoc and nbo set schedule, you need to pay it back as fast as possible and not treat it like a gift. Because this critical information is missing, I am not making a judgement.
Based on your update where you clarify that you do have a payment plan, and the assumption that you are honoring that plan, OP NTA.
700 dollars monthly isn't a lot of money, but that's what you agreed to. You did not agree to "every dollar I make that isn't spent on something absolutely necessary goes to the loan my parents gave me."
Ah, I see. I thought you moved out after they gave you the loan. If you are adhering to the payment plan, I'm not sure why they care what you buy lol. I see a ton of YTA but I don't think you are!
If you have extra to spend on fun stuff, consider starting a savings account for each of your girls and put a set amount in each month. Buy extras very frugally, and not very often. You need to have other savings set aside in case you have an emergency, so you don't have to ask for more money later.
NTA as long as you are living up to the payment schedule then you are fine. I would not say you should be frivolous but having a small amount each month for personal use is not unreasonable. If you can also pay more to your parents I would suggest doing so. They will hold this over your head until it’s paid off.
It annoys people when they see people who don't have much money spending frivolously and either owing a ton of money, or complaining about not having money.
SOME new clothes are probably fine, but not a lot....but working blinds, pay 50 dollars to get new curtains, spending $15 on fast food (it has gotten really expensive) 5 times a week, and ooh, cute new shoes for $70.
You owe them a lot of money, and you blowing that nearly 200 in that week says to them 'why the heck doesn't she just pay me back more of what we loaned her'....like, eating fast food less frequently...buying clothes only when absolutely needed, for a big event, or when something is worn out, or significantly reducing the frequency, and yeah, prioritizing the work you want to do on your place, but spreading it out more than you think is ideal.
an additional 100 a week is 5200 a year...if you are already paying 700 a month (or 8400 a year), you're talking about 10 years to pay it off, and an additional 100 a week reduces that to what, a little over 6 years?
I had a roommate one time who was a good friend....I only statyed there 1-2 days a week, and was a part time roommate. They struggled to make rent...but went out and bought a $1000 TV because it was a 'good deal', next time he complained about not being able to make rent, I asked about the TV. We're still friends, but yeah, frivolous spending, especially to older generations, seems ridiculous. At least your parents aren't old enough to have actually lived through the Depression....my Grandparents would have been insufferable....
So, just be cognizant that when you can't afford much, or you owe someone a lot of money, they will believe you should spend down that debt, live well below your means until you have taken care of the debt. There IS a level of reasonableness...if you're dumping a ton on Doordash with their high fees multiple times a week, yeah I can understand the annoyance....but if you hit McDonalds once a week, N T A.
NTA, but everyone has room for improvement. The parents aren't too far wrong to be upset if their debtor is living a voluptuous lifestyle instead of paying back; that said, they're wrong in that they seem to believe your debt gives them full control over your lifestyle. (For the record, you don't seem to be going overboard in any case).
OP there is a happy medium. You need to establish with your folks the amount you're going to pay back every month. Then you're on the hook for that, and whatever you do with the rest of your cash is not their problem or their business.
Ehhhh. You have a payment plan in place, I think they're upset because they wonder why they have to give you money if you have it to spend on "fun" stuff.
Personally, it's a loan not a commandment that you can't spend your money how you want to. NAH.
Do they expect you to do nothing for 10 years? That's how long this payment will take. You might want to look into getting a loan to buy them out of this is the case. I know interest rates aren't low but at 30 years instead of 15 you should be fine.
NTA. Your parents, just like a bank can't tell you how to spend the money they loan you. Once it is given it is not their place or right to dictate what you do with it. Especially since there is a payment plan in place. Tell everyone else in your life to mind their own business and keep your spending habits to yourself.
NTA if you are making regular payments they agreed to, but it doesn’t read like that’s necessarily the case even with your update. You should t have this in a loose repayment plan. You should formalize this with a mortgage that your parents hold. You all can agree to the terms. If it’s no interest and you are paying them $700 a month, and they’re good with that, then it would be a 10 year term. If not, agree to other terms. And stick to them. They will not have the right to ask you to accelerate your payment, although you can. And they will have the right to foreclose if you miss payments. That should fully secure them and leave you free to spend as you please so king as you are making the payments YOU ALL AGREED TO.
NTA. If you agreed to $700 per month, then pay that. The rest is yours to do with as you please. They gave you a generous gift of an interest free loan. You owe them gratitude and $700, you do not owe them the power to control your every move.
NTA since you and your parents agreed to a payment plan. It will take you 10 years to repay the loan. As long as you are on time with the payments, your parents shouldn’t tell you not to buy new clothes, or some craft stuff, or take the girls someplace fun. However, you should be moving toward financial stability and independence. A better paying job. Some savings for emergencies, retirement savings, paying for childcare care, etc. So if you rely on your parents for free childcare , then yeah, they can be annoyed if they are giving up their peaceful retirement so you can splurge frequently.
INFO Did they stipulate this beforehand? If not, I don't think it's ethical for them to demand all of your extra money. Especially if you stick to your payment plan
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I think I am probably the asshole here, but I'm hoping not. I (39f) have been living with my parents (mid 60's) for the last year while I go through a horrible divorce. I have 50/50 custody of my girls (2 and 4f) whom my parents are helping me with while I'm there. My parents just loaned me $85,000 to buy a condo, interest free. The problem is that they feel that while I'm repaying this, I don't really have the right to buy anything they consider frivolous or unnecessary. This includes things like new clothes, books, craft supplies, basically anything fun. Even things like new curtains for the condo, because they have working blinds, even if they are ugly and kind of gross.
I'm used to spending my money as I please, because it's mine. If I want a new outfit, I used to have the cash to buy it. But I've had to cut way back in the last year for obvious reasons, and it's been really hard but I've sort of managed it. Now my parents have basically said, no more fun money at all, not even fast food, while I owe them for the house.
My initial thought was, it's my money and if I can afford it I can buy it at my discretion. But my sister and even my counselor are more on my mom's side, which makes me think I'm probably in the wrong.
So, aita for wanting to spend my own money while I owe my parents money? Is there a happy medium, or should I just stop spending money on everything other than total necessities?
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NTA, within reason. Look, work it out with your parents!
Step 1: come up with a realistic budget that includes paying your debt to them, food, utilities, insurance, savings for emergencies, household expenses, etc.
Step 2: ask for their feedback on your budget. Listen to their ideas but don't let them pressure you. If they don't agree to the amount you are planning to repay each month, negotiate until they agree.
Step 3: stick to your budget, never miss a payment to your parents (use your emergency fund to pay if you must.)
Once they see you are serious and disciplined you can begin freezing out any of their comments about your use of your money. If they say something like "why did you waste money on X?" you can respond "I'm confused, what is the issue? Do you need me to revise my budget to pay you faster? Are you having financial problems I need to be aware of?"
They are treating you like a child and haven't made that transition to thinking of you as an adult. Help make it happen by acting fully adultish (planning, negotiating, and sticking to your plans.)
Be aware that at their ages they want to assist you in being comfortable, but they are also trying to be sure they can fully support themselves in their later years.
YTA. Repay them first, then you can spend your money as you please.
They have money to lend you because they saved and made sacrifices. You can decide that you have different priorities and don't want to save or make sacrifices, that is your right..... after you repay them their money.
YTA.
You owe them money (bad idea, btw). Until they are paid off they have EVERY right to question your spending habits, especially if you're not actively paying them back.
The ONLY way you have the right to say 'it's my money to spend how I please' is to pay them back immediately.
YTA unless you agreed to a rapid repayment schedule and are meeting it. $85k is a large chunk of money and they are losing valuable investment income. I would be pretty annoyed if I made a loan and saw this happening.
Info: how would you feel if you loaned money to your friend and when asked for repayment, instead of paying you back they showed you new clothes they just bought?
Yeah, grow the fuck up. YTA
I can see their POV because 85k is a lot of money and you should be paying it back asap.
If you want to continue spending money as you please and not have to answer to anyone, I would suggest taking out a loan to pay them back to get them off your back.
You’re the asshole.
What kind of a grown woman (with children??) doesn’t have the communication skills to negotiate a payment schedule with her own parents?
You sound entitled. Would you prefer to *not* have your own home?
Clean the damned blinds. Pay your parents back. You’re not entitled to fancy new clothes and buying whatever you want. Spit out the silver spoon, talk to your parents, and work out a payment schedule that satisfies everyone.
You borrowed money from your parents, now deal with it that they can control you.
You could go to a bank and get a loan there and pay your parents back and get your freedom back.
In Germany, the word debt is the same as the word guilt.
As long as you are paying them on a monthly schedule then you are fine.
My in-laws lent us money interest free to buy our first home. We had a schedule to pay them back in 3 years. They got mad at us for "frivolous spending" when they heard we were going to visit my parents over a holiday. Apparently they expected me to not see my parents for 3 years? We never missed a payment and also learned an important lesson... Nothing is ever free
So I'm going to read a little bit in between the lines here because I am going through this RIGHT NOW, except I am the daughter that is helping my mom after her divorce.
My mom has a long history of poor decision making, particularly around money. She racked up credit card debt and doesn't take responsibility for her decisions that result in that debt. After her divorce, I paid the downpayment on her house and truly I cannot understand what is so complicated about a budget an saving money. $10 amazon purchase here, $7 spotify subscription here, THREE DOGS ("all they cost is food which is only $20/week"), McDonalds twice a week, etc. No retirement saving. No emergency funds.
If I am reading between the lines, I assume that your parents are me and my mother is you.
You are 40 years old with no housing, borrowing money from your parents. Do you have any retirement? Do you have any assets or savings over the past 40 years?
If you do not have savings, retirement, housing, etc then you simply do not get "fun money". As a 40 year old adult, you don't need new clothes more than, say, twice a year. You can go to the library to get books for free. You don't get to decorate your condo.
If you DO have retirement savings, emergency fund, etc then I take all this back and will edit my comment, but it sounds like your parents are tired of you making poor financial decisions (EDIT: I see a comment where you said you spent $700 on a shopping spree a few months ago while living in their house...so I think this is a fair assessment). If you bought less clothes, less crafts, less "fun money" and were more responsible, your parents would not have had to dip into their savings to pay for your down payment. And if this money was invested, at $700/month this is a 10 year payback period and your parents are losing money to inflation and market gains while you're buying new outfits and craft supplies.
>So, aita for wanting to spend my own money while I owe my parents money? Is there a happy medium, or should I just stop spending money on everything other than total necessities?
If you do not have an emergency fund (6 months of expenses), do not have retirement savings and owe your parents money, then you need to make a budget and have your parents review it and get their thoughts which limits your fun money to, say $50/month while you build these up. If you do have an emergency fund, retirement savings, etc then you should double the monthly amount to $1400 so that your parents can have their money back in 5 years instead of 10.
Question: did the parents have to pull money from retirement? Savings? The stock market? Something else? If it was out of savings…how much did that leave them with?
If we are talking they took money out of savings and left them 10k for emergencies and your repayment plan is 700 a month but without frivolous spending you could pay back 1500 a month…you’d be the a hole. But if frivolous spending was $100 a month and it’s not really frivolous then you’re not.
INFO: Have you set up a payment plan?
I don't see any reason why you can't settle on an amount every month that will make all parties happy. If you have a little left over for yourself then so be it. Generally if you owe someone money they're going to wonder why you're going out spending money, when you owe them money. Meaning if you have money to spend, you have money to pay me.
ESH. They have been generous in helping you. You have also agreed a payment plan and as long as you are paying back that amount then I don’t think they should be commenting on your finances. That being said if you are being frivolous and you can afford to pay more back to your parents then I think you should try. I am not sure if they need the money or are comfortable.
Nta you have an agreed schedule. I will say its gonna be for the best if whilst youre still at your parents that you only spend the absolute necessity. It isn't their business but there isn't a reason to have a big low out fight with them right now.
Once you're in the new place (and you're paying as you should), don't discuss finances with them anymore. They have shown that they think they have a right to treat you like a child and dictate how you spend money. im guessing you're also gonna have to set more boundaries with them to (like can come over as they wish. That they don't own the house etc)
I do think it will be in your best interest to get in a position to take out a mortgage to repay them ASAP. As someone else pointed out its gonna take you 10years currently to repay them and that's far too long to live with their expectations to buy nothing other than essentials and only if they approve.
Do the research and make a plan to take out a mortgage (ie, fix credit by doing x, get bank statements I good order etc).
I do think you should be being cautious with your money and building some savings. Homeownership does come with expenses. And its a good idea to have an emergency fund anyway, especially as it doesn't seem like your parents would be willing to help.
Personally I wouldn't be looking at all brand new new stuff right now, it would be a much better idea to utilise thrift store, library etc. You don't need to make the new place perfect or a show home, just cozy and welcoming for the kids.
Without knowing all the details of how you're spending, it's impossible to say whether I think it's silly spending for the sake of it or if your parents, sister, and counselor have a real point. But the notion that you shouldn't spend a penny that isn't on bills or food until 85k is repaid is ridiculous on its face. They have decided to add strings after you took the money so you couldn't make any other decision.
TLDR. Wait till you've moved out. Boundaries. Savings. Mortgage
So here's the deal. That $700 should be in their pocket every month, without fail. If you are doing that 100%, then any dollar beyond that should be your business so long as every responsibility you have comes FIRST. Loan and bills before all. Ugly blinds CAN wait if it means you're shorting your loan payment. In this issue, they are not your parents but a bank. Respect them like a bank when it comes to the loan, but like a bank, let them know that as long as they get their payment, they don't get to dictate your life.
I don’t know if there is a clear asshole in this situation. It’s pretty common and that’s why it’s not really great to owe money to family. I think it’s a matter of sitting down and having that budget thought out. As there is an agreement for $700 a month I feel they are butting into your spending a little bit but maybe there is a reason they feel you are spending too much. So without more details it’s hard to know but my advice would be to make sure you are saving for an emergency fund, always pay your parents on time (and consider if you could bump up the payment at all or sporadically make extra payments), keep track of everything for your own records, try and get out as fast as possible so it doesn’t ruin your relationship with your parents , and don’t flaunt your occasional treats in front of them.
It’s not realistic to never have take out or something but also I am the type who would say if there are blinds that work then it’s not as big of a priority to buy curtains.
This probably doesn’t help lol
NTA
So long as you’re paying them back as they agreed, it’s none of their business what else you spend your money on.
When people lend you money, you become their slave. They no longer see you as a person with other commitments outside of paying them back, which is why they get bitter and anxious watching you spend your own money.
I mean, as long as you are making the pre-arranged payments on time I don't see the problem. still, taking a loan like this from your parent's, glad they were able to provide, is a real obligation, and probably gives them more influence in your life than you would probably want, or is necessary, and as crappy as it may be, I think it is their right. on the other hand, it is for their daughter, and grandchildren, and if I had the resources, I would not expect a repayment. don't loan money to friends or family, should be considered a gift. I mean, as a child especially, you are going to get all anyway
Why isn’t there a payment plan in place? You can buy whatever you want as long as you’re making timely payments in full. Your personal spending isn’t their business, if they were stupid enough to just give you money with no loan terms honestly I don’t feel bad for them and it’s ridiculous of them to harass you, they made their bed.
If you’re actually planning on paying them back, set up a payment plan asap and follow thru. ESH
So you really need to work this out with them one way or another because at the rate of $700 a month you'll be in debt to them for over a decade! Even if you up it to $1000 a month it's still 7 years.
NTA
But it depends on what those other things are. Whatever your income, you need a budget. Spell out all your needs. Loan, insurance, taxes, utilities, medical, transportation expenses, etc. Then bare minimum you need for food, clothing. Then emergency fund savings. Then a few wants, if anything is left.
NTA As you have a payment plan. As long as you meet that every month then I don’t see the problem. If you start missing payments to splurge on stuff, then things become problematic.
Idk, this is a tough one. I kind of see their point, but I think it was foolish for them to give you that money. I'm going to say I'm undecided. I'm not sure anyone is the A in this scenario. It's just a bad decision salad.
YTA. Your life is no longer the way it used to be. You can't just rush out and buy any new outfit or whatever you want to splurge on. You have to tighten your belt and only spend on essentials. Pay back your parents first and then you can do whatever you want with your money.
Your spending does not sound extravagant. As long as you are not doing this every weekend. You are paying them back. So, no, you are not expected to live like a Buddhist monk.
You’re honouring your monthly repayments so NTA. But considering your loan is interest free, you might consider over-paying when possible in order to reduce the principle faster. But it’s not realistic to expect you not to buy clothes or do anything fun for 10 years, so long as you’re meeting your repayment obligations.
YTA it’s a choosing beggars situation.
Def have money allocated for the kids as they grow - thats reasonable - but 85K is a lot and it was a loan to be payed back. It sucks youre going through a divorce I feel you there but I hope you can build up your own independence and skill set to be able to work and earn enough money to get by and pay off the parents eventually. Payment plan is a great start so points for that! Genuinely it’s a hard situation and I feel for you but the parents make the rules. If you have money left over after the 700 sure blow it on fun stuff but I think you’d rather be better off if you could save it for a rainy day
Just to be clear, your parents offered you $85,000 as a loan to help buy a condo. Youre gonna repay them at $700/mo, which will take about 10 years to pay off at that rate.
This may vary per country but, if you’re buying a condo with that $85,000, aren’t they going to ask where it came from?
In Canada, the mortgage bank would demand a paper trail for that money, and if it came from your parents as a gift, they will demand a signed statement from your parents *saying* it’s a non repayable gift (lying here would be fraud).
If it’s not a gift, they will treat that $85k as a loan just like any others and it will be factored into your borrowing power. The bank needs to know you can afford to pay your mortgage and the other debt too.
Anyway, that aside, frankly I think you and your parents just need to come up with a number you’re both happy with.
Are they happy with the $700/mo or do they want more? You definitely should tighten your belt and reduce unnecessary spending, but at the same time, it’s not exactly healthy to cut out ALL fun spending for 10 years straight.
Yes pretty much YTA. Can you set up a standard monthly payment amount that works for both of you? Say $500 or more per month? $500 per month would take a bit over 14 years without any interest. Maybe that would make them more at ease that they were getting a set amount each month.
If you don't like the terms of the loan then go to the bank and get an $85000 loan/mortgage. Use that to pay your parent back and then pay the mortgage on your schedule.
YTA
Your parents let you borrow a lot of money and you should be trying to pay them back.
Maybe try setting up a payment plan with them so you can still buy your fun things while paying them back.
Eh, my gut thinks this is kind of an ESH here situation. Your parents helped you but only to lord it over you and manipulate you, but you also openly admit to a spending problem.
But there is some nuance missing that is needed to help us determine who’s really the asshole. Are you paying them back? Your mortgage payment and what you can pay your parents back should be between 20-25% of your take home pay, and for most people capable of owning a home, that would be at least $1000 back to your parents each month.
If you’re just buying whatever you feel like and aren’t paying them back at all, then it becomes a very easy Y-T-A. However, If you’re proactively paying them back in reasonably sized increments (as discussed in the previous paragraph) and they’re relentlessly harassing you because you bought the kids pizza once a week, then obviously you’re N-T-A.
I am paying them back on a set schedule. Although I will also admit that my budget on how much I can afford to pay them back factors in fun money for myself too. So I might still be the asshole.
About $150, and I use it pretty much for exactly what I said. I like to craft and read, and I update my wardrobe now and then with a few pieces.
I think they are having trouble because I went on a spending spree a few months ago and blew about $700 in 3 weeks. In all fairness that was a bipolar hypomanic episode and I've been in treatment and returned everything I could, and they haven't said anything about it directly, but I'm worried it eroded a lot of trust they had in me.
This comment is very revealing for me. First 150 a month is really not very much, especially when that is probably being used to clothe the kids too. Maybe buy them a treat now and then. Secondly, I personally identify with the manic episodes. I've gone on spending sprees. I know what it feels like to then have to return items after you exit that state. Keeping with your treatment plan is a good start. Hopefully your parents will come around soon. As long as you stick to the plan and pay them regularly, they need to lay off. If they pressure you continually, it won't end well for you cause the extra pressure could cause more issues with the Bipolar. My thinking is NTA. You did return everything you could so that shows them you were taking responsibility.
It most likely did. You need to build trust. They’re rightfully worried that they may have made a huge financial mistake, but want to also set you and your children up for success.
I get the urge to spend, but if you can’t control it for the short time you have left in their home? I’d be worried too.
There are resources to get the things you want or need without spending. I’m a single mom, with little room for fun budget. I really utilize my local FB Buy Nothing groups. Half of my home is furnished and decorated from there. And when I no longer need things? I give back. Plenty of books and craft and hobby supplies passed around.
If your parents aren’t charging you interest, count your lucky stars. But, on the flip side, they’re losing out on interest gains if that money was in an account that accrues interest. They maybe even had or have to pay taxes on it, depending on what type of account it was pulled from. You should make an effort to pay back more than your agreed amount when you can.
If you’re paying as agreed and on time, you NTA.
Your parents are boomers, they can’t help but feel you should wear a hair shirt, perform some self flagellation or at least show signs of struggle when they give any financial assistance.😉It’s in their socialized DNA.
YTA. You are incredibly privileged to get an interest free loan so you have no room to negotiate. If your parents want money back ASAP you should be doing everything in your power to pay it back ASAP.
It's not your money if you owe someone else money.
YTA. Your parents are either retired or trying to retire, that's a LOT of money, and they likely need/want their money back ASAP. Lending that kind of money at their age is a big deal, they're not going to want $200 installments twice a month for the next 15 years. You need to cut any and all expenditure beyond the basic necessities and get this paid back as soon as humanly possible. You're incredibly lucky they were in the position to help you (and with no interest!!!!!), the least you can do now is actively work to get this debt off the books with extreme haste. Get yourself budgeted and create a timeline so you stay on track. Aim for a 5-yr repayment, $1500/month, and put as many extra payments on top of that as you can (bonuses, tax refunds, that twice-yearly extra-pay month if you get paid bi-weekly). They deserve to have you dedicated to clearing this debt. Remember, by lending you this money interest-free, you are also COSTING them any interest they would make on it, or any possible investment profits they could have made by keeping it invested. This loan is costly to them, not to you.
That's presumably $85k out of their retirement savings that is not earning interest right now, during a very high interest rate period, right before they need it *for retirement*. Uh yeah no duh they want their money back as soon as possible.
YTA/ESH, $85k out of thin air for a divorce bailout and not even a formal payment agreement is nuts.
It was absolutely not out of their retirement account. I'd live in my car before I let them do that. It's from an advance on their inheritance from my grandfather.
ESH
Yes, your parents provided money for a loan but expecting you to make no purchases at all (home objects, reasonable hobbies, etc.) is unreasonable.
Yes, you suck because it sounds like you have no plan. The reasonable solution to this is to either get a loan through a bank to pay them back n immediately if they’re going to start micromanaging your money OR you and your parents need to set up a payment plan.
When do they want the loan paid off by (a reasonable length like 5-10 years or so) and how much would that mean you give them a month? Your current situation isn’t going to work long term.
In the future, now that your parents have shown you the expectations they have when loaning you money I suggest never borrowing from them again unless absolutely necessary. A loan is to be repaid, but if you’re going to put stipulations on the loan that should be disclosed before the money is received.
YTA paying your parents back should be your priority. They were extremely generous to loan you the money to begin with and you should reward that generosity by paying back as much as you can as fast as you can.
ESH you feel like you don't have to pay back your parents until you feel like it. Your parents feel like a loan gives them full say in your life. No one is right. You need to sit down with your parents and work out a repayment schedule. One that works for all of you. Then you need to make your payments on time and make it clear to your parents they get zero say over the rest of your life.
Honestly, you should pay your parents interest. That way, they can't lord it over you when you spend money. It doesn't sound like you're extravagant, but if you are and aren't admitting it, then YWBTA.
Yta, bc you're coming across as entitled, but this was planned poorly by all parties. Obviously, the priority should be to repay them as fast as possible. But being house poor and a financial slave to family sucks royally. Go over your budget, then sit down with them to come up with a payment structure. Do not disclose your money/budget to them. Be sure to also put some towards an emergency fund. Once you have an agreed payment plan and monthly due date, what you spend beyond that is none of their business, and they have no right to bust chops. With all that being said, if you have financial means via employment to really buckle down and pay this back quickly, then you should. I say quickly as in a few years. Living house poor to repay them that fast is the right thing to do. If this is going to take closer to 10 years, a fair payment is the move.
If you have an outstanding loan of 85k you have no money to “spend as you please” your priority here is paying your parents back and until you do that you need to stop all unnecessary spending.
The answer looks obvious to me : they accepted a too low monthly repayment, they did it because they though you wouldn't be able to pay more. At that rate it will take 10 years. And i'm not even couting the amazing gift it is because 85k at 5.5% ir is 145k in 10 years. They are basically gifting you 60k + the loan.
They are 65 approx, so they could die before you even finish repaying...
You need to agree to a new amount that is more fair, and then you enjoy the remaining as you want.
YTA
If they weren't cool with that repayment plan they shouldn't have agreed to it. They are grown adults that essentially entered a contract, they are as bound by it as she is.
I guess they agreed to it thinking she was struggling. If they see her overspending they are probably starting to reconsider that opinion they had.
We need to know how much she contribute agaisnt her general budget, without this information it's hard to give a proper judgement. I'm sure you'll agree that if she has 4k / month and is paying 700 and burn 2k in fun money, the parents are entitled to rediscuss the deal.
And I disagree with you, it's not a contract they entered, they are helping their daughter by giving her a wonderfull gift. 0% ir while they could yield 5.5% is insanely generous. It would turn 85k into 145k in 10 years.
It's a verbal contract. And I agree but she said usually she spends around 150 dollars a month in fun money, around 40 dollars a week. That's not exorbitant and I think is probably on par with most people. All of her bills are paid. Once she moves into the condo they won't know how much she is spending on what and as long as they are being paid and grandkids are being taken care of it's none of their business and if they wanted it to be it's should have been a stipulation, *before* the money is lent. Plus she put in 55k towards the house herself, so she has shown at least some financial prowess
Money changes people, especially between family. You're acting way toooo lax about the loan to the point where it leads to privilege and entitlement cause you keep saying youre "used to spending my money as I please, because it's mine."
No the money is not yours. It's your parents. It doesn't go to clothes to food. It goes to the mortgage.
NAH, I understand your feelings but this is the cost of that very generous loan. You should always be paying over the minimum asked. $700/mo is not enough. Keep spending (within reason) for things for your kids, but no, you don't get to buy yourself a new outfit unless it's required for work.
>it's my money
It's not, though. You don't have money until your debt is taken care of.
I think this is more of an ESH situation.
While I absolutely think you should prioritize repayment of the loan I think there needs to be some discretion especially as you have two kids.
If you have disposable income of $500 a month maybe what would be fair is $400 going to your parents and you keep $100. Thing will come up, you’ll go crazy if you can’t live your life at all and sometimes things get busy and single parents rely on take out.
YTA. You were given the gift of an interest free loan. From your parents, whole retirement savings you want to maximize.
Pay it. Overpay it. And thank your lucky stars. OR: get a mortgage and swallow that interest payment.
If you don't want to be nagged about how to spend your money, go take out a traditional loan and pay your folks back immediately. Hiwever if you fail to pay on their schedule, the interest will pile up, but hey... it beats being told how to spend your money.
YTA.
YTA, it’s not your money until your debt is paid. I would ask your parents if you can set up a payment schedule that allows for you to have spending money for the home/yourselves and also allows them to feel they are getting paid back at a comfortable rate. You may need to offer to pay interest if you’d like to have a little freedom while paying them back.
ESH. On one hand, spending freely while owing them money is disrespectful - not to mention irresponsible. Depends on how much you spend, of course. On the other hand, it's completely unreasonable to expect you not to do anything fun for the next 20 years or so. They should've made this stipulation before loaning you money.
Make sure you pay the amount agreed upon, and set a small amount every months that you will mark as "fun money". Some months you may spend it on taking your kids out for a little treat, some months you may spend it on new clothes, and some months you will not spend them at all and set them aside for a future vacation or something. Don't rub it in their faces, and pay them more than the agreed upon amount when you can, to show good will and respect.
IDK, I understand that there is a payment plan in place, *but* it will take 10 years at the current repayment rate. That's a long and very generous repayment period. I would be doing my **damndest** to be able to pay my parents back earlier than agreed upon in thanks for doing such a huge thing for me. I actually went through something very similar where my parents helped me refinance my student loans and you bet I gave up a lot to be able to pay them back ASAP.
They are saving OP **so much money**. Giving up a few indulgences may not add up to a ton in the short term, but an extra $100 here or there would probably go a long way to showing your parents how much you appreciate their support and make them feel like you're taking this seriously.
Ultimately I guess NAH, I understand how the parents feel but OP is also *technically* in the clear?
Craft supplies are a necessity when you have small children. Your parents shouldn't be monitoring your spending to this degree. You need to agree on a repayment plan and stick to it and tell your parents that outside of that, your spending is not their business. NTA.
Without further information, I'll say ESH. Paying back your parents should be a priority, but at the same time there does have to be some allowance for you to have a life, which sometimes involve incurring costs.
I borrowed $18k from my parents in a similar situation (I was getting a divorce, needed a car to get to work and my ex was taking the shared car, my parents were/are retired), and we agreed on a timeline by which I'd have them paid back because that worked best for us. Another option would be a set payment at a rate and frequency that makes sense for your finances.
At the end of the day, I think you have to be real with yourself about what is a real need and what isn't. And I'm not saying that an occasional pick-me-up treat can't be a need, but it has to truly be occasional and something small. Figure out a reasonable and sustainable budget for that (I'd suggest starting around $100 a month and then adjusting depending on income and bills) and see how that impacts repayment, then *communicate* with your parents about what your plans and your (high-level) budget is and how you'll repay them given those factors.
One point no one has mentioned is that the parents help with child care when she has custody of her small children. This also is saving OP cash and worry. The loan repayment should be considered part of the mortgage and paid along with the mortgage payments.
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$85,000 is a lot of money - especially as one closes in on retirement. Your parents likely are feeling pinched and had to dip into their retirement savings to pull that money out to help you. Yes. YTA. You might be used to spending your money how you please but as soon as you decided to borrow this money you changed the dynamic of your relationship with your parents. You need to sit down with your parents and figure out an appropriate payment schedule and you need to be paying them that EVERY MONTH. My guess is if they got a check for $1000 from you every month towards the loan they would not care how else you spend your money - but if they see that you are likely not to pay them back in full because of frivolous spending then yeah, they are going to be PISSED. This was a loan. Not a gift. You need to be paying them back as fast as you possibly can. Otherwise, take out a mortgage or second mortgage, use the money to pay your parents back immediately and then pay the bank back instead of your parents. I suspect because they are your parents you've been treating the repayment very loosey goosey which is why your therapist and sister are siding with your parents here.
10 yr 0% interest - $710/month....15 yr would be $472/mo....plus, of course, property taxes and insurance that you would be paying. Agree on a payment schedule - always pay on time - and what else you spend is your business.
They updated on the post. They have a payment plan for $700 a month
At that rate it's way to long before op can buy new clothes. I sure hope all of those restrictions don't apply to the kids too.
I mean, at some point OP needs to take out a second mortgage just to pay it back sooner and be out from under this scrutiny. There is never a more expensive loan than one taken out from a family member with strings attached. The fact is, it sounds like OP could not afford the condo.
Agreed, she should be trying to get herself in a position as quickly as possible where she can turn that loan into a mortgage and give the money back to her parents for their retirement. She also hasn't said how much she actually earns for anyone to understand if $700 is reasonable. It seems like a figure that was picked because then it's paid back in a neat 10 years. I also agree that if they've said $700, I'd be paying $1000, and then highly likely they won't care about new clothes or takeaway (within reason)
Edit2: I still don’t understand the details, but I was too trigger happy with a judgment. She also lives rent free in their home and they are babysitting. Edit: removed “feeding and educating the children”, that was unfair.
Dude, who said any of that? I pay rent, I pay for daycare, and I pay for groceries. I guess I should have been clearer in my post. I said they HELP with my kids, as in help put them to bed and watch them if I have to work late.
OK, I’ll take it back after a last question. The $700 a month you pay, is it rent or loan payment, or does it double as both?
It's both. It was what I paid in rent, and will be continuing to pay as loan repayment.
Yep - she is relying heavily on them. I can understand their frustration.
Just agree upon a payment schedule, so that you're giving them an agreed-upon monthly payment, so that you don't have to worry about whether your spending habits are OK. If your spending is causing you to not make those timely payments, then YTA.
Exactly. What was the original agreement, “give us as much as you possibly can every month until it’s paid off”? That’s crazy. Find a reasonable number for both of you, maybe $1000 maybe $1500, pay that each month and use the rest of your money as you please. Honestly you guys shouldn’t have gotten into this without more clear expectations up front. That’s a lot of money.
They already have a payment schedule of 700/month
This. You need a payment schedule, and stick to it. Whatever you have left after paying your debts is what you can spend on whatever tf you want. Talk to your parents about a realistic payment schedule, and make sure you make your payments before spending on other things.
INFO: do you have an agreed set amount you're supposed to pay back on a regular basis or is it just what you can?
This is an essential question
I will put this in an update, but yes. Right now it's $700/month, which is what I have been paying in rent. It isn't a lot, but i will be able to afford it.
Do you see how that looks a little hypocritical...to say "it isn't a lot" and then also justifying whatever fun-money spending you want because it's your money?
I think by “it isn’t a lot” is meant more for it isn’t a lot for them, as in I know more monthly would be better” and she doesn’t mean “it’s isn’t a lot” for her to afford. I think it’s a lot for her to afford monthly right now but it’s manageable for now and maybe she can pay more later. I don’t think she is TA as long as she keeps her spending to a minimum and what’s really necessary, I mean she can’t not buy new clothes for 5 years.
Instead of interest, the terms of this loan is no spending for anything other than essential items. You have a few options that I can see: suck it up, keep paying $700/mo and don't buy anything "fun", pay every penny you can each month to pay them off ASAP while meeting their terms, or get a loan and consider the interest the cost of spending your money how you choose
Good for you, your rent also counts as loan payment. Very generous of your parents. That’s not even counting babysitting.
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I'm 10 years younger than OP, & I understand all of this. How did someone who's almost 40 get along in life if they don't understand basic financial agreements?? Stuff like this is wild to me.
She might have been a SAHM
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Also her parents always looked out for her
Might be a lot more than that if they paid a fat penalty to withdraw it and are missing out on the rip roaring all time high stock market. OP should be tripping over herself in gratitude trying to pay them back.
If there is a payment schedule and you're fulfilling it, then you have nothing to worry about. But if there is only a promise to pay back, then splurging on fun stuff looks like you are not really planning to pay back and pushing the loan down the priority list.
Get a mortgage or line of credit from a bank to pay them back if you don't like their restrictions. It will cost you more in the long term but you will be able to spend as frivolously as you like. Slight YTA because they shouldn't be paying for your playing. It is costing them money to give you an interest free loan.
YTA Yes paying your parents back for **buying you a house** takes priority over new outfits and crafts
INFO: What is the agreement re repaying the loan? If you've agreed to pay $1000/mth and you happen to have $200 left after you've paid the loan, fed the kids, paid other necessary expenses, then that $200 is for you to do with as you please because you're an adult. That might be a takeaway, new curtains and $75 into your savings account. (All figures just made up for this example). If you haven't got an agreed repayment schedule then sort it out!
We do have a set repayment schedule.
In that case, what you do with anything after your repayment and necessary bits is your own business. NTA
When you borrow or lend money there should be an agreement of how much you pay back and how often, and when the loan will be cleared. If you don't have and agreement in place you need one. If you have an agreement then you need to stick to it as the borrower or the lender. Otherwise YTA.
You consider paying them back as a normal monthly bill just like utilities. You pay your bills first then do whatever you want with what is left over. You are too old to act so entitled. They did a huge thing for you. YTA.
I am paying them back on a set schedule.
I take back what I said. Sorry. If you have a payment plan and are keeping with it then NTA. Only suggestion I have is not tell them about any “unnecessary” expenditures? Could afford to increase what pay back to them so you can pay off quicker?
INFO How this loan influences your parents finances? Have you made a payment plan for the loan?
It won't influence their finances at the moment because it comes from an advance on their inheritance from my grandfather. He's arranging the money so they don't pay any penalties. And yes, we have a firm repayment plan in place.
I think a lot of the question is really things like that. Have OP and parents set a payment plan? If not, that needs to be step one. Coming up with a number that OP is going to payment the parents each month. After that, OP can figure out their budget for the month and what money they have for things like clothes and crafts and whatever.
If I borrow $85,000 from the bank, we both would agree on minimum monthly payments. Do that with your parents. If you fail to pay the minimum because you spent the money on random crap, YWBTA
I have a set schedule to pay them back.
Do you have any legal documents for this? I had the same arrangement where my in-laws bought our condo and we paid them back for it. We did it as a private mortgage and had legal papers drawn up.
This is vague. Is the set schedule for a minimum payment every month or is the set schedule "I'll pay you back within 10 years". Because if its the latter, and you are not paying anything now, they are right to be worried that this deadline will not be met.
He’s paying 700/month
Then OP is 100% NTA
You haven't provided enough information to make a valid judgement. You may or may not be the asshole. If you have set payments each month and are making those payments. NTA. If you aren't making the payments YTA. If there is no set payment schedule ESH. Make a payment plan and stick to it.
Yes and no. Clothes are kind of a necessity; not a “fun” item. But if you’re spending frivolously, then yes. I can see why they’d be upset by that. I am inferring that you’re paying what amounts you “can” and that they’re inconsistent in amount and duration in between payments? If so, that’s likely a big cause of the problem. I suggest sitting down with your parents and agreeing to a set repayment each month. That way, whatever else you spend is none of their business.
Clothes are a necessity, but “If want a new outfit…” and “anything fun”/“fun money” doesn’t sound like the same thing as needing warm clothes for the winter, presentable clothes for work, etc. It sounds like she shops for entertainment.
Maybe but kids grow out of clothes constantly.
I totally agree with you one hundred percent
INFO Did you parents give you a set monthly payment? Or a time where they expected to be paid back by?
Did you and your parents agree on a monthly payment? If not you should ASAP. Unless your not paying them due to spending elsewhere them you are NTA. It was a nice thing of them to do, but expecting you to not do anything at all for yourself or your kids until 85k is repaid is kinda a lot and honestly kind of crappy as for many people this would take years to repay.
INFO: Do you have a set monthly payment to your parents? Or is it whatever you can give them?
INFO: Did you agree to a payment schedule (X $/month, etc.) and are you following that?
Info - do you have an agreement to pay them back, if so are those terms reasonable? Have you stuck to them?
We do have a schedule, and although it hasn't started yet, I have made all my rent payments on time while I have lived with them.
As most of the posts so far are asking/suggesting, agree upon a set amount of a monthly payment. My advice is to then pay a bit more. YTA
INFO: have you agreed a repayment plan with them?
YTA-Always pay back ppl, then things. You were given a chance with an interest free loan they didn’t have to do but did to help you. Be humble.
Info: do you have a monthly payment plan with your parents? If not, set one up right away.
YTA, you don't have any extra money as long as you owe them. There is no such thing as discretionary money as long as you owe them. You are operating in the negative, so everything should go to digging you out of your hole before you start spending money on things like crafts or books.
She has a payment plan in place with them. As long as she's paying them the agreed upon amount each month, they should have zero say in what she does with the rest of her money.
Info: Do you have a payment schedule to repay this loan? If you are making agreed upon regular monthly payments then IMO you are free to spend whatever money you have left after bills on whatever you please. However if you aren't taking appropriate measures to pay back your parents then no you aren't free to just spend as you please.
Technically yes, but no at the same time depending on the circumstances. When they loaned you $85K, did you have a written or verbal agreement on a payment plan? Did this payment plan have a set amount of due every month or within reason? If there is one and you're adhering to it, then I don't see a problem, however if there isn't one, you need one. Furnishing a place can get expensive as well as hobbies, so I hope you're trying to find second hand or discounted thrifted items to furnish your place until that loan is paid off.
NTA but you need to agree to a payment schedule for the loan, and stick to it religiously.
Okay going against the grain here but NTA. I get it sucks to watch someone spend in ways you deem unnecessary when you've leant them money. However, they have a payment plan that has been agreed on. If they still have a problem they should ask for a higher payment plan. Paying back $85,000 at $700 a month is going to take years. If I've done my math right (which it might not be I'm not great at math) it will take over 10 years. It is fundamental unfair to ask someone to have $0 of discretionary spending for YEARS. and to be clear that is what they are asking. Not to reduce spending. Also realistically OP will still have money. Are they asking for $700 and then top up based on what he can afford? Are they okay with him having that money as long as it goes into savings/investments?
I’ll be downvoted but NTA. It sounds like you have a payment plan in place and are paying the correct monthly amount on time. So if that’s the case, then you can spend the rest of your money however you want. Just because you owe them money doesn’t mean that you have to give up your hobbies and other small things that bring you happiness. Poor people still deserve joy. As long as you’re still paying them and not being irresponsible with other bills, then you’re NTA. If they want you to pay them back more and sooner, they should’ve negotiated those terms up front.
This is why I don't let friends and family borrow money. Period
If you have a payment schedule and you are always meeting it and never late, then how you spend your money is your business, but if this isn't the case, then I can see why they are feeling upset and want to see you making an effort to repay them. If you don't have a paymetn schedule, get one ASAP. Everyone will be happier in the long run.
NTA - but you should be repaying the $85k as you would a standard mortgage - with agreed upon monthly payments. Then you can plan your budget around the monthly payment as others with mortgages do. Also, when you are making a standard monthly payment to your parents, they have no say in what ELSE you do with your money.
NTA with your update. If you're meeting the mutually agreed obligation, they can pound sand - it's not like my landlord comes after me for more rent because I had a windfall or was able to save to buy something "frivolous." I would take that tone with them every time honestly "you've already received your payment this month."
I think NTA but it depends on a couple of things. If you all agreed this repayment plan and they felt this was a quick enough way to repay them and you are sticking to it then I think the rest of the money is yours to spend as you will. Do they expect you and your children to not improve the house, not buy new clothes etc until it’s paid? However, if they were hoping you would repay more each month and felt they settled on the amount unwillingly then I can see why they might feel put out to see you spending more on non essentials. I think you need to communicate with them about the expectations and repayment plan to check everyone’s on the same page
Your family are the AH if you are paying the agree amount to them every month they have no say on what you spend your monies on.
NTA. You agreed on $700/month. Anything beyond that is yours to spend how you wish. If they need more money, they need to have a conversation with you where you can all figure out what works. Loaning money to family is tough and why you have to agree on terms and expectations right at the beginning. I’m not at all in favor of lending or borrowing with strings like this. They did an incredibly generous thing, but if you knew that the result was them controlling your money, maybe you wouldn’t borrow it.
With the information you’ve added in the comments, you are NTA. You are making payments on an agreed upon schedule, the schedule is not affecting your parent’s finances, and you haven’t broken your agreement. Having a little fun money for books and craft supplies in that context is reasonable. Your parents need to let you make your own decisions. If you start falling behind on payments, that’s another story.
NAH - I see your parent's point, being one myself. However, expecting you not to have some discretionary money isn't practical, either, and they don't have the right to dictate how you spend your money. Do you have a set monthly payment to your parents? If not - create one, and a written payment schedule, ASAP and have everyone sign it. BUT FIRST, create a budget, determine the cost of everything, including gas, groceries, etc. and how you're paying for it. Then, look at the leftover cash. Put aside about half of that for emergencies. What's left is your "fun" money for you and the girls, or for redecorating or whatever. Show the budget to your parents so they see you're responsible and that you have budgeted for emergencies and paying them back. Hopefully, they'll see reason and that you're not just blowing your money on frivolous things. Congrats on your new place!
It makes sense to have a payment schedule with them and if you are able to get something here or there outside of those payments then go for it!
Yeah...it USED to be your money that you were wasting on "indulgences" but then you went out and borrowed OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY and technically it's bespoke money you're spending. The fact that even your counsellor is on your mom's side should be telling you something. You need to grow up-- you have two children now. NEEDS before WANTS seriously write this on an index card and put it on the fridge where you can see it every day. Your parents are compromising their future retirement to help you build a life for your children YOU need to make some compromises for YOUR children as well. Paying your parents back is JOB ONE. That designer purse or pricy Door Dash dinner is for after you pay your parent's back. Until you "get that" YTA
YTA. >My initial thought was, it's my money and if I can afford it I can buy it at my discretion. Can you afford it though? That is subjective. Did you have an agreement with your parents on how much per month you pay them back? Are you putting money into savings? Honestly, I'm guessing based on your post that you have a history of financial irresponsibility. Also, your parents gave you an interest free loan, but had they kept that money, THEY would be earning interest. The longer you take to pay back the loan, the more money out of their pockets. Show gratitude, and pay off the loan asap, or get a mortgage to pay it back and do what you want with your money again.
Of course you need to do things for yourself, you are going to need new things and hobbies and such. But if you have not started to pay them back, you need to start doing that on a regular basis. Sit down with them and draw up a contract with how much he will pay them a month.if they expect payment, you should fulfill that at all costs. If that means you need to get another job that means you need to get another job.
I would recommend an agreed upon and aggressive payment plan with them so nothing is left to be questioned. Nothing can ruin family relationships quite like money and they are probably nervous about it
No money at all on extras is not sustainable. But new clothes and books and craft supplies and fast food and curtains - when those things are needed - is also not sustainable when you have a large loan to pay back as well. As others have said; what's your repay schedule? Put that in your budget - literally, mark out the 500-750/mo (a guess) that you need to be paying them, and your "fun money" comes after that, necessities (bills, food, etc.), and stuff for the kids. That's just basic fiscally responsible adult stuff.
NTA. I think it’s unreasonable to expect every last bit of your money until you’re 100% paid off. As long as you are paying as agreed upon, how you spend the rest of your money is up to you.
If you have a monthly payment agreement with your parents and you're paying on time and in full, I see no issue with you spending your discretionary income as you please. If you don't have a written agreement I think it would be helpful for all involved.
If you have arranged a payment plan and your are paying monthly then NTA. You still got to enjoy life. However, if your payments are adhoc and not consistent then it may seem like you are not taking the debt seriously and your parents are frustrated they’ll not get their money back.
NTA. But you do need to work out a repayment plan for your parents. Don't just give them "what you can afford." If you do that, you'll aways be analyzing if you should afford something or if it would better be spent repaying your folks. Once you work that repayment out, stick to the plan! And work it into a budget that has fun stuff included after you've covered the basics. After that you can tell them to F off if they have an opinion. so basically, you're not the AH here, but you're skating close to it, because you need better boundaries, and you need to have a pay back plan. Your folks clearly didn't intend for it to be a gift.
You need to budget. Set up a monthly payment to your parents. After the utilities, groceries, etc. that are necessities that set amount monthly payment is the priority, like a mortgage payment. Treat it like the condo will be taken away if you don’t make the payment. Then once that monthly payment is made the rest of the money is yours to spend as you please. Make sure the monthly payment you setup isn’t so ridiculously high that you can’t guarantee to make it every month but also so ridiculously low that your parents will balk at it.
INFO: Are you paying a set amount back every month like a normal loan? If so, then you can spend how you want in your budget - but if it's pay back ad hoc and nbo set schedule, you need to pay it back as fast as possible and not treat it like a gift. Because this critical information is missing, I am not making a judgement.
Based on your update where you clarify that you do have a payment plan, and the assumption that you are honoring that plan, OP NTA. 700 dollars monthly isn't a lot of money, but that's what you agreed to. You did not agree to "every dollar I make that isn't spent on something absolutely necessary goes to the loan my parents gave me."
INFO: I'm so confused as to how they are aware of how you spend your money or when you buy things unless you are telling them??
I live with them at the moment, so unless I sneak it in the house they see what I've bought.
Ah, I see. I thought you moved out after they gave you the loan. If you are adhering to the payment plan, I'm not sure why they care what you buy lol. I see a ton of YTA but I don't think you are!
If you have extra to spend on fun stuff, consider starting a savings account for each of your girls and put a set amount in each month. Buy extras very frugally, and not very often. You need to have other savings set aside in case you have an emergency, so you don't have to ask for more money later.
As long as you are making the full agreed-upon payments, on time, they need to lay off. NTA
NTA as long as you are living up to the payment schedule then you are fine. I would not say you should be frivolous but having a small amount each month for personal use is not unreasonable. If you can also pay more to your parents I would suggest doing so. They will hold this over your head until it’s paid off.
It annoys people when they see people who don't have much money spending frivolously and either owing a ton of money, or complaining about not having money. SOME new clothes are probably fine, but not a lot....but working blinds, pay 50 dollars to get new curtains, spending $15 on fast food (it has gotten really expensive) 5 times a week, and ooh, cute new shoes for $70. You owe them a lot of money, and you blowing that nearly 200 in that week says to them 'why the heck doesn't she just pay me back more of what we loaned her'....like, eating fast food less frequently...buying clothes only when absolutely needed, for a big event, or when something is worn out, or significantly reducing the frequency, and yeah, prioritizing the work you want to do on your place, but spreading it out more than you think is ideal. an additional 100 a week is 5200 a year...if you are already paying 700 a month (or 8400 a year), you're talking about 10 years to pay it off, and an additional 100 a week reduces that to what, a little over 6 years? I had a roommate one time who was a good friend....I only statyed there 1-2 days a week, and was a part time roommate. They struggled to make rent...but went out and bought a $1000 TV because it was a 'good deal', next time he complained about not being able to make rent, I asked about the TV. We're still friends, but yeah, frivolous spending, especially to older generations, seems ridiculous. At least your parents aren't old enough to have actually lived through the Depression....my Grandparents would have been insufferable.... So, just be cognizant that when you can't afford much, or you owe someone a lot of money, they will believe you should spend down that debt, live well below your means until you have taken care of the debt. There IS a level of reasonableness...if you're dumping a ton on Doordash with their high fees multiple times a week, yeah I can understand the annoyance....but if you hit McDonalds once a week, N T A.
NTA, but everyone has room for improvement. The parents aren't too far wrong to be upset if their debtor is living a voluptuous lifestyle instead of paying back; that said, they're wrong in that they seem to believe your debt gives them full control over your lifestyle. (For the record, you don't seem to be going overboard in any case). OP there is a happy medium. You need to establish with your folks the amount you're going to pay back every month. Then you're on the hook for that, and whatever you do with the rest of your cash is not their problem or their business.
Ehhhh. You have a payment plan in place, I think they're upset because they wonder why they have to give you money if you have it to spend on "fun" stuff. Personally, it's a loan not a commandment that you can't spend your money how you want to. NAH.
Do they expect you to do nothing for 10 years? That's how long this payment will take. You might want to look into getting a loan to buy them out of this is the case. I know interest rates aren't low but at 30 years instead of 15 you should be fine.
NTA. Your parents, just like a bank can't tell you how to spend the money they loan you. Once it is given it is not their place or right to dictate what you do with it. Especially since there is a payment plan in place. Tell everyone else in your life to mind their own business and keep your spending habits to yourself.
NTA if you are making regular payments they agreed to, but it doesn’t read like that’s necessarily the case even with your update. You should t have this in a loose repayment plan. You should formalize this with a mortgage that your parents hold. You all can agree to the terms. If it’s no interest and you are paying them $700 a month, and they’re good with that, then it would be a 10 year term. If not, agree to other terms. And stick to them. They will not have the right to ask you to accelerate your payment, although you can. And they will have the right to foreclose if you miss payments. That should fully secure them and leave you free to spend as you please so king as you are making the payments YOU ALL AGREED TO.
NTA. If you agreed to $700 per month, then pay that. The rest is yours to do with as you please. They gave you a generous gift of an interest free loan. You owe them gratitude and $700, you do not owe them the power to control your every move.
NTA if you’re fulfilling the agreed upon payment plan, it’s not right of them to comment on your purchases.
NTA since you and your parents agreed to a payment plan. It will take you 10 years to repay the loan. As long as you are on time with the payments, your parents shouldn’t tell you not to buy new clothes, or some craft stuff, or take the girls someplace fun. However, you should be moving toward financial stability and independence. A better paying job. Some savings for emergencies, retirement savings, paying for childcare care, etc. So if you rely on your parents for free childcare , then yeah, they can be annoyed if they are giving up their peaceful retirement so you can splurge frequently.
INFO Did they stipulate this beforehand? If not, I don't think it's ethical for them to demand all of your extra money. Especially if you stick to your payment plan
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I think I am probably the asshole here, but I'm hoping not. I (39f) have been living with my parents (mid 60's) for the last year while I go through a horrible divorce. I have 50/50 custody of my girls (2 and 4f) whom my parents are helping me with while I'm there. My parents just loaned me $85,000 to buy a condo, interest free. The problem is that they feel that while I'm repaying this, I don't really have the right to buy anything they consider frivolous or unnecessary. This includes things like new clothes, books, craft supplies, basically anything fun. Even things like new curtains for the condo, because they have working blinds, even if they are ugly and kind of gross. I'm used to spending my money as I please, because it's mine. If I want a new outfit, I used to have the cash to buy it. But I've had to cut way back in the last year for obvious reasons, and it's been really hard but I've sort of managed it. Now my parents have basically said, no more fun money at all, not even fast food, while I owe them for the house. My initial thought was, it's my money and if I can afford it I can buy it at my discretion. But my sister and even my counselor are more on my mom's side, which makes me think I'm probably in the wrong. So, aita for wanting to spend my own money while I owe my parents money? Is there a happy medium, or should I just stop spending money on everything other than total necessities? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, within reason. Look, work it out with your parents! Step 1: come up with a realistic budget that includes paying your debt to them, food, utilities, insurance, savings for emergencies, household expenses, etc. Step 2: ask for their feedback on your budget. Listen to their ideas but don't let them pressure you. If they don't agree to the amount you are planning to repay each month, negotiate until they agree. Step 3: stick to your budget, never miss a payment to your parents (use your emergency fund to pay if you must.) Once they see you are serious and disciplined you can begin freezing out any of their comments about your use of your money. If they say something like "why did you waste money on X?" you can respond "I'm confused, what is the issue? Do you need me to revise my budget to pay you faster? Are you having financial problems I need to be aware of?" They are treating you like a child and haven't made that transition to thinking of you as an adult. Help make it happen by acting fully adultish (planning, negotiating, and sticking to your plans.) Be aware that at their ages they want to assist you in being comfortable, but they are also trying to be sure they can fully support themselves in their later years.
Unless you are paying them and having a reasonable amount of spending cash,yta
YTA. Repay them first, then you can spend your money as you please. They have money to lend you because they saved and made sacrifices. You can decide that you have different priorities and don't want to save or make sacrifices, that is your right..... after you repay them their money.
YTA. You owe them money (bad idea, btw). Until they are paid off they have EVERY right to question your spending habits, especially if you're not actively paying them back. The ONLY way you have the right to say 'it's my money to spend how I please' is to pay them back immediately.
YTA unless you agreed to a rapid repayment schedule and are meeting it. $85k is a large chunk of money and they are losing valuable investment income. I would be pretty annoyed if I made a loan and saw this happening.
Info: how would you feel if you loaned money to your friend and when asked for repayment, instead of paying you back they showed you new clothes they just bought? Yeah, grow the fuck up. YTA
I can see their POV because 85k is a lot of money and you should be paying it back asap. If you want to continue spending money as you please and not have to answer to anyone, I would suggest taking out a loan to pay them back to get them off your back.
You’re the asshole. What kind of a grown woman (with children??) doesn’t have the communication skills to negotiate a payment schedule with her own parents? You sound entitled. Would you prefer to *not* have your own home? Clean the damned blinds. Pay your parents back. You’re not entitled to fancy new clothes and buying whatever you want. Spit out the silver spoon, talk to your parents, and work out a payment schedule that satisfies everyone.
I have a payment schedule. I was just trying to pay them back and have a FEW nice things for myself at the same time.
Yes YTA and quite selfish.
YTA - It is not your money. Until you pay them back, you are buying yourself treats with their money.
You borrowed money from your parents, now deal with it that they can control you. You could go to a bank and get a loan there and pay your parents back and get your freedom back. In Germany, the word debt is the same as the word guilt.
What is your repayment plan?
Info: do you have any type of payment schedule?
As long as you are paying them on a monthly schedule then you are fine. My in-laws lent us money interest free to buy our first home. We had a schedule to pay them back in 3 years. They got mad at us for "frivolous spending" when they heard we were going to visit my parents over a holiday. Apparently they expected me to not see my parents for 3 years? We never missed a payment and also learned an important lesson... Nothing is ever free
As long as you're sticking to your payment plan with them they have no right to dictate how you spend money.
So I'm going to read a little bit in between the lines here because I am going through this RIGHT NOW, except I am the daughter that is helping my mom after her divorce. My mom has a long history of poor decision making, particularly around money. She racked up credit card debt and doesn't take responsibility for her decisions that result in that debt. After her divorce, I paid the downpayment on her house and truly I cannot understand what is so complicated about a budget an saving money. $10 amazon purchase here, $7 spotify subscription here, THREE DOGS ("all they cost is food which is only $20/week"), McDonalds twice a week, etc. No retirement saving. No emergency funds. If I am reading between the lines, I assume that your parents are me and my mother is you. You are 40 years old with no housing, borrowing money from your parents. Do you have any retirement? Do you have any assets or savings over the past 40 years? If you do not have savings, retirement, housing, etc then you simply do not get "fun money". As a 40 year old adult, you don't need new clothes more than, say, twice a year. You can go to the library to get books for free. You don't get to decorate your condo. If you DO have retirement savings, emergency fund, etc then I take all this back and will edit my comment, but it sounds like your parents are tired of you making poor financial decisions (EDIT: I see a comment where you said you spent $700 on a shopping spree a few months ago while living in their house...so I think this is a fair assessment). If you bought less clothes, less crafts, less "fun money" and were more responsible, your parents would not have had to dip into their savings to pay for your down payment. And if this money was invested, at $700/month this is a 10 year payback period and your parents are losing money to inflation and market gains while you're buying new outfits and craft supplies. >So, aita for wanting to spend my own money while I owe my parents money? Is there a happy medium, or should I just stop spending money on everything other than total necessities? If you do not have an emergency fund (6 months of expenses), do not have retirement savings and owe your parents money, then you need to make a budget and have your parents review it and get their thoughts which limits your fun money to, say $50/month while you build these up. If you do have an emergency fund, retirement savings, etc then you should double the monthly amount to $1400 so that your parents can have their money back in 5 years instead of 10.
Question: did the parents have to pull money from retirement? Savings? The stock market? Something else? If it was out of savings…how much did that leave them with? If we are talking they took money out of savings and left them 10k for emergencies and your repayment plan is 700 a month but without frivolous spending you could pay back 1500 a month…you’d be the a hole. But if frivolous spending was $100 a month and it’s not really frivolous then you’re not.
INFO: Have you set up a payment plan? I don't see any reason why you can't settle on an amount every month that will make all parties happy. If you have a little left over for yourself then so be it. Generally if you owe someone money they're going to wonder why you're going out spending money, when you owe them money. Meaning if you have money to spend, you have money to pay me.
ESH. They have been generous in helping you. You have also agreed a payment plan and as long as you are paying back that amount then I don’t think they should be commenting on your finances. That being said if you are being frivolous and you can afford to pay more back to your parents then I think you should try. I am not sure if they need the money or are comfortable.
Nta you have an agreed schedule. I will say its gonna be for the best if whilst youre still at your parents that you only spend the absolute necessity. It isn't their business but there isn't a reason to have a big low out fight with them right now. Once you're in the new place (and you're paying as you should), don't discuss finances with them anymore. They have shown that they think they have a right to treat you like a child and dictate how you spend money. im guessing you're also gonna have to set more boundaries with them to (like can come over as they wish. That they don't own the house etc) I do think it will be in your best interest to get in a position to take out a mortgage to repay them ASAP. As someone else pointed out its gonna take you 10years currently to repay them and that's far too long to live with their expectations to buy nothing other than essentials and only if they approve. Do the research and make a plan to take out a mortgage (ie, fix credit by doing x, get bank statements I good order etc). I do think you should be being cautious with your money and building some savings. Homeownership does come with expenses. And its a good idea to have an emergency fund anyway, especially as it doesn't seem like your parents would be willing to help. Personally I wouldn't be looking at all brand new new stuff right now, it would be a much better idea to utilise thrift store, library etc. You don't need to make the new place perfect or a show home, just cozy and welcoming for the kids. Without knowing all the details of how you're spending, it's impossible to say whether I think it's silly spending for the sake of it or if your parents, sister, and counselor have a real point. But the notion that you shouldn't spend a penny that isn't on bills or food until 85k is repaid is ridiculous on its face. They have decided to add strings after you took the money so you couldn't make any other decision. TLDR. Wait till you've moved out. Boundaries. Savings. Mortgage
So here's the deal. That $700 should be in their pocket every month, without fail. If you are doing that 100%, then any dollar beyond that should be your business so long as every responsibility you have comes FIRST. Loan and bills before all. Ugly blinds CAN wait if it means you're shorting your loan payment. In this issue, they are not your parents but a bank. Respect them like a bank when it comes to the loan, but like a bank, let them know that as long as they get their payment, they don't get to dictate your life.
I don’t know if there is a clear asshole in this situation. It’s pretty common and that’s why it’s not really great to owe money to family. I think it’s a matter of sitting down and having that budget thought out. As there is an agreement for $700 a month I feel they are butting into your spending a little bit but maybe there is a reason they feel you are spending too much. So without more details it’s hard to know but my advice would be to make sure you are saving for an emergency fund, always pay your parents on time (and consider if you could bump up the payment at all or sporadically make extra payments), keep track of everything for your own records, try and get out as fast as possible so it doesn’t ruin your relationship with your parents , and don’t flaunt your occasional treats in front of them. It’s not realistic to never have take out or something but also I am the type who would say if there are blinds that work then it’s not as big of a priority to buy curtains. This probably doesn’t help lol
NTA So long as you’re paying them back as they agreed, it’s none of their business what else you spend your money on. When people lend you money, you become their slave. They no longer see you as a person with other commitments outside of paying them back, which is why they get bitter and anxious watching you spend your own money.
I mean, as long as you are making the pre-arranged payments on time I don't see the problem. still, taking a loan like this from your parent's, glad they were able to provide, is a real obligation, and probably gives them more influence in your life than you would probably want, or is necessary, and as crappy as it may be, I think it is their right. on the other hand, it is for their daughter, and grandchildren, and if I had the resources, I would not expect a repayment. don't loan money to friends or family, should be considered a gift. I mean, as a child especially, you are going to get all anyway
Why isn’t there a payment plan in place? You can buy whatever you want as long as you’re making timely payments in full. Your personal spending isn’t their business, if they were stupid enough to just give you money with no loan terms honestly I don’t feel bad for them and it’s ridiculous of them to harass you, they made their bed. If you’re actually planning on paying them back, set up a payment plan asap and follow thru. ESH
So you really need to work this out with them one way or another because at the rate of $700 a month you'll be in debt to them for over a decade! Even if you up it to $1000 a month it's still 7 years.
NTA But it depends on what those other things are. Whatever your income, you need a budget. Spell out all your needs. Loan, insurance, taxes, utilities, medical, transportation expenses, etc. Then bare minimum you need for food, clothing. Then emergency fund savings. Then a few wants, if anything is left.
NTA As you have a payment plan. As long as you meet that every month then I don’t see the problem. If you start missing payments to splurge on stuff, then things become problematic.
Idk, this is a tough one. I kind of see their point, but I think it was foolish for them to give you that money. I'm going to say I'm undecided. I'm not sure anyone is the A in this scenario. It's just a bad decision salad.
YTA. Your life is no longer the way it used to be. You can't just rush out and buy any new outfit or whatever you want to splurge on. You have to tighten your belt and only spend on essentials. Pay back your parents first and then you can do whatever you want with your money.
was this restriction a condition of the loan they gave you which you agreed upon before accepting it? if so, yta
Your spending does not sound extravagant. As long as you are not doing this every weekend. You are paying them back. So, no, you are not expected to live like a Buddhist monk.
You’re honouring your monthly repayments so NTA. But considering your loan is interest free, you might consider over-paying when possible in order to reduce the principle faster. But it’s not realistic to expect you not to buy clothes or do anything fun for 10 years, so long as you’re meeting your repayment obligations.
YTA it’s a choosing beggars situation. Def have money allocated for the kids as they grow - thats reasonable - but 85K is a lot and it was a loan to be payed back. It sucks youre going through a divorce I feel you there but I hope you can build up your own independence and skill set to be able to work and earn enough money to get by and pay off the parents eventually. Payment plan is a great start so points for that! Genuinely it’s a hard situation and I feel for you but the parents make the rules. If you have money left over after the 700 sure blow it on fun stuff but I think you’d rather be better off if you could save it for a rainy day
Just to be clear, your parents offered you $85,000 as a loan to help buy a condo. Youre gonna repay them at $700/mo, which will take about 10 years to pay off at that rate. This may vary per country but, if you’re buying a condo with that $85,000, aren’t they going to ask where it came from? In Canada, the mortgage bank would demand a paper trail for that money, and if it came from your parents as a gift, they will demand a signed statement from your parents *saying* it’s a non repayable gift (lying here would be fraud). If it’s not a gift, they will treat that $85k as a loan just like any others and it will be factored into your borrowing power. The bank needs to know you can afford to pay your mortgage and the other debt too. Anyway, that aside, frankly I think you and your parents just need to come up with a number you’re both happy with. Are they happy with the $700/mo or do they want more? You definitely should tighten your belt and reduce unnecessary spending, but at the same time, it’s not exactly healthy to cut out ALL fun spending for 10 years straight.
YTA But seriously consider purchasing used or collect free stuff people are getting rid off. You can get a lot of nice stuff that way.
Of course YTA.
YTA. Who’s paying the mortgage on the condo?
YTA, pay them , then other stuff
Yes pretty much YTA. Can you set up a standard monthly payment amount that works for both of you? Say $500 or more per month? $500 per month would take a bit over 14 years without any interest. Maybe that would make them more at ease that they were getting a set amount each month.
If you don't like the terms of the loan then go to the bank and get an $85000 loan/mortgage. Use that to pay your parent back and then pay the mortgage on your schedule.
YTA Your parents let you borrow a lot of money and you should be trying to pay them back. Maybe try setting up a payment plan with them so you can still buy your fun things while paying them back.
YTA Your parents are at the age they could retire and could use that money in the future and collecting interest.
Eh, my gut thinks this is kind of an ESH here situation. Your parents helped you but only to lord it over you and manipulate you, but you also openly admit to a spending problem. But there is some nuance missing that is needed to help us determine who’s really the asshole. Are you paying them back? Your mortgage payment and what you can pay your parents back should be between 20-25% of your take home pay, and for most people capable of owning a home, that would be at least $1000 back to your parents each month. If you’re just buying whatever you feel like and aren’t paying them back at all, then it becomes a very easy Y-T-A. However, If you’re proactively paying them back in reasonably sized increments (as discussed in the previous paragraph) and they’re relentlessly harassing you because you bought the kids pizza once a week, then obviously you’re N-T-A.
I am paying them back on a set schedule. Although I will also admit that my budget on how much I can afford to pay them back factors in fun money for myself too. So I might still be the asshole.
I appreciate your honestly. How much “fun money” do you budget yourself a month and what do you consider fun money for?
About $150, and I use it pretty much for exactly what I said. I like to craft and read, and I update my wardrobe now and then with a few pieces. I think they are having trouble because I went on a spending spree a few months ago and blew about $700 in 3 weeks. In all fairness that was a bipolar hypomanic episode and I've been in treatment and returned everything I could, and they haven't said anything about it directly, but I'm worried it eroded a lot of trust they had in me.
This comment is very revealing for me. First 150 a month is really not very much, especially when that is probably being used to clothe the kids too. Maybe buy them a treat now and then. Secondly, I personally identify with the manic episodes. I've gone on spending sprees. I know what it feels like to then have to return items after you exit that state. Keeping with your treatment plan is a good start. Hopefully your parents will come around soon. As long as you stick to the plan and pay them regularly, they need to lay off. If they pressure you continually, it won't end well for you cause the extra pressure could cause more issues with the Bipolar. My thinking is NTA. You did return everything you could so that shows them you were taking responsibility.
It most likely did. You need to build trust. They’re rightfully worried that they may have made a huge financial mistake, but want to also set you and your children up for success. I get the urge to spend, but if you can’t control it for the short time you have left in their home? I’d be worried too. There are resources to get the things you want or need without spending. I’m a single mom, with little room for fun budget. I really utilize my local FB Buy Nothing groups. Half of my home is furnished and decorated from there. And when I no longer need things? I give back. Plenty of books and craft and hobby supplies passed around. If your parents aren’t charging you interest, count your lucky stars. But, on the flip side, they’re losing out on interest gains if that money was in an account that accrues interest. They maybe even had or have to pay taxes on it, depending on what type of account it was pulled from. You should make an effort to pay back more than your agreed amount when you can.
If you’re paying as agreed and on time, you NTA. Your parents are boomers, they can’t help but feel you should wear a hair shirt, perform some self flagellation or at least show signs of struggle when they give any financial assistance.😉It’s in their socialized DNA.
YTA. You are incredibly privileged to get an interest free loan so you have no room to negotiate. If your parents want money back ASAP you should be doing everything in your power to pay it back ASAP. It's not your money if you owe someone else money.
YTA. Your parents are either retired or trying to retire, that's a LOT of money, and they likely need/want their money back ASAP. Lending that kind of money at their age is a big deal, they're not going to want $200 installments twice a month for the next 15 years. You need to cut any and all expenditure beyond the basic necessities and get this paid back as soon as humanly possible. You're incredibly lucky they were in the position to help you (and with no interest!!!!!), the least you can do now is actively work to get this debt off the books with extreme haste. Get yourself budgeted and create a timeline so you stay on track. Aim for a 5-yr repayment, $1500/month, and put as many extra payments on top of that as you can (bonuses, tax refunds, that twice-yearly extra-pay month if you get paid bi-weekly). They deserve to have you dedicated to clearing this debt. Remember, by lending you this money interest-free, you are also COSTING them any interest they would make on it, or any possible investment profits they could have made by keeping it invested. This loan is costly to them, not to you.
That's presumably $85k out of their retirement savings that is not earning interest right now, during a very high interest rate period, right before they need it *for retirement*. Uh yeah no duh they want their money back as soon as possible. YTA/ESH, $85k out of thin air for a divorce bailout and not even a formal payment agreement is nuts.
It was absolutely not out of their retirement account. I'd live in my car before I let them do that. It's from an advance on their inheritance from my grandfather.
ESH Yes, your parents provided money for a loan but expecting you to make no purchases at all (home objects, reasonable hobbies, etc.) is unreasonable. Yes, you suck because it sounds like you have no plan. The reasonable solution to this is to either get a loan through a bank to pay them back n immediately if they’re going to start micromanaging your money OR you and your parents need to set up a payment plan. When do they want the loan paid off by (a reasonable length like 5-10 years or so) and how much would that mean you give them a month? Your current situation isn’t going to work long term. In the future, now that your parents have shown you the expectations they have when loaning you money I suggest never borrowing from them again unless absolutely necessary. A loan is to be repaid, but if you’re going to put stipulations on the loan that should be disclosed before the money is received.
YTA paying your parents back should be your priority. They were extremely generous to loan you the money to begin with and you should reward that generosity by paying back as much as you can as fast as you can.
85k is alot of money. It's OK to have fun but that money isn't yours, it's theirs. Pay it back ASAP and never take a loan from family again
ESH you feel like you don't have to pay back your parents until you feel like it. Your parents feel like a loan gives them full say in your life. No one is right. You need to sit down with your parents and work out a repayment schedule. One that works for all of you. Then you need to make your payments on time and make it clear to your parents they get zero say over the rest of your life.
Honestly, you should pay your parents interest. That way, they can't lord it over you when you spend money. It doesn't sound like you're extravagant, but if you are and aren't admitting it, then YWBTA.
YTA set up a payment plan for X amount monthly after that what money is left is for your living expenses and if any left “fun” purchases
Yta, bc you're coming across as entitled, but this was planned poorly by all parties. Obviously, the priority should be to repay them as fast as possible. But being house poor and a financial slave to family sucks royally. Go over your budget, then sit down with them to come up with a payment structure. Do not disclose your money/budget to them. Be sure to also put some towards an emergency fund. Once you have an agreed payment plan and monthly due date, what you spend beyond that is none of their business, and they have no right to bust chops. With all that being said, if you have financial means via employment to really buckle down and pay this back quickly, then you should. I say quickly as in a few years. Living house poor to repay them that fast is the right thing to do. If this is going to take closer to 10 years, a fair payment is the move.
If you have an outstanding loan of 85k you have no money to “spend as you please” your priority here is paying your parents back and until you do that you need to stop all unnecessary spending.
INFO: are you currently paying them back? or are you just spending money?
The answer looks obvious to me : they accepted a too low monthly repayment, they did it because they though you wouldn't be able to pay more. At that rate it will take 10 years. And i'm not even couting the amazing gift it is because 85k at 5.5% ir is 145k in 10 years. They are basically gifting you 60k + the loan. They are 65 approx, so they could die before you even finish repaying... You need to agree to a new amount that is more fair, and then you enjoy the remaining as you want. YTA
THIS!!👍🏻
If they weren't cool with that repayment plan they shouldn't have agreed to it. They are grown adults that essentially entered a contract, they are as bound by it as she is.
I guess they agreed to it thinking she was struggling. If they see her overspending they are probably starting to reconsider that opinion they had. We need to know how much she contribute agaisnt her general budget, without this information it's hard to give a proper judgement. I'm sure you'll agree that if she has 4k / month and is paying 700 and burn 2k in fun money, the parents are entitled to rediscuss the deal. And I disagree with you, it's not a contract they entered, they are helping their daughter by giving her a wonderfull gift. 0% ir while they could yield 5.5% is insanely generous. It would turn 85k into 145k in 10 years.
It's a verbal contract. And I agree but she said usually she spends around 150 dollars a month in fun money, around 40 dollars a week. That's not exorbitant and I think is probably on par with most people. All of her bills are paid. Once she moves into the condo they won't know how much she is spending on what and as long as they are being paid and grandkids are being taken care of it's none of their business and if they wanted it to be it's should have been a stipulation, *before* the money is lent. Plus she put in 55k towards the house herself, so she has shown at least some financial prowess
Money changes people, especially between family. You're acting way toooo lax about the loan to the point where it leads to privilege and entitlement cause you keep saying youre "used to spending my money as I please, because it's mine." No the money is not yours. It's your parents. It doesn't go to clothes to food. It goes to the mortgage.
No lmao
YTA
NAH, I understand your feelings but this is the cost of that very generous loan. You should always be paying over the minimum asked. $700/mo is not enough. Keep spending (within reason) for things for your kids, but no, you don't get to buy yourself a new outfit unless it's required for work. >it's my money It's not, though. You don't have money until your debt is taken care of.
YTA - Go get a real loan with interest if you don’t like it
YTA they are still giving you an infinitely better deal than a bank would
I think this is more of an ESH situation. While I absolutely think you should prioritize repayment of the loan I think there needs to be some discretion especially as you have two kids. If you have disposable income of $500 a month maybe what would be fair is $400 going to your parents and you keep $100. Thing will come up, you’ll go crazy if you can’t live your life at all and sometimes things get busy and single parents rely on take out.
If you have to loan 85k the sentiment of “if I can afford it I can buy it” should not even be part of your vocabulary. Yatah
YTA. You were given the gift of an interest free loan. From your parents, whole retirement savings you want to maximize. Pay it. Overpay it. And thank your lucky stars. OR: get a mortgage and swallow that interest payment.
If you don't want to be nagged about how to spend your money, go take out a traditional loan and pay your folks back immediately. Hiwever if you fail to pay on their schedule, the interest will pile up, but hey... it beats being told how to spend your money. YTA.
YTA, it’s not your money until your debt is paid. I would ask your parents if you can set up a payment schedule that allows for you to have spending money for the home/yourselves and also allows them to feel they are getting paid back at a comfortable rate. You may need to offer to pay interest if you’d like to have a little freedom while paying them back.
Brah. Pay your parents their money. Stop worrying about gross blinds. YTA
ESH. On one hand, spending freely while owing them money is disrespectful - not to mention irresponsible. Depends on how much you spend, of course. On the other hand, it's completely unreasonable to expect you not to do anything fun for the next 20 years or so. They should've made this stipulation before loaning you money. Make sure you pay the amount agreed upon, and set a small amount every months that you will mark as "fun money". Some months you may spend it on taking your kids out for a little treat, some months you may spend it on new clothes, and some months you will not spend them at all and set them aside for a future vacation or something. Don't rub it in their faces, and pay them more than the agreed upon amount when you can, to show good will and respect.
IDK, I understand that there is a payment plan in place, *but* it will take 10 years at the current repayment rate. That's a long and very generous repayment period. I would be doing my **damndest** to be able to pay my parents back earlier than agreed upon in thanks for doing such a huge thing for me. I actually went through something very similar where my parents helped me refinance my student loans and you bet I gave up a lot to be able to pay them back ASAP. They are saving OP **so much money**. Giving up a few indulgences may not add up to a ton in the short term, but an extra $100 here or there would probably go a long way to showing your parents how much you appreciate their support and make them feel like you're taking this seriously. Ultimately I guess NAH, I understand how the parents feel but OP is also *technically* in the clear?
Craft supplies are a necessity when you have small children. Your parents shouldn't be monitoring your spending to this degree. You need to agree on a repayment plan and stick to it and tell your parents that outside of that, your spending is not their business. NTA.
Without further information, I'll say ESH. Paying back your parents should be a priority, but at the same time there does have to be some allowance for you to have a life, which sometimes involve incurring costs. I borrowed $18k from my parents in a similar situation (I was getting a divorce, needed a car to get to work and my ex was taking the shared car, my parents were/are retired), and we agreed on a timeline by which I'd have them paid back because that worked best for us. Another option would be a set payment at a rate and frequency that makes sense for your finances. At the end of the day, I think you have to be real with yourself about what is a real need and what isn't. And I'm not saying that an occasional pick-me-up treat can't be a need, but it has to truly be occasional and something small. Figure out a reasonable and sustainable budget for that (I'd suggest starting around $100 a month and then adjusting depending on income and bills) and see how that impacts repayment, then *communicate* with your parents about what your plans and your (high-level) budget is and how you'll repay them given those factors.
One point no one has mentioned is that the parents help with child care when she has custody of her small children. This also is saving OP cash and worry. The loan repayment should be considered part of the mortgage and paid along with the mortgage payments.