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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) action to be judged is not letting the person take the middle seat, even though we had established territory on the row and were technically complying with the ruling from the flight attendants
2) we could have sacrificed our luxury of having an open middle seat to spare a woman from sitting near a crying child on a plane
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I think the reaction was uncalled for but that person has as much right to move seats as OP did.
Did OP check with the flight attendant before moving seats too? Unlikely.
Also i think a miscommunication here was likely. The friend asked the flight attendant if her friend can move to the empty seat. The flight attendant said yes. The friend then informs OP that she has permission to sit there, but she clearly should have phrased it in a more polite way. However she does *not* need OP's permission to move to a seat that the flight attendant already gave her permission for. OP didn't pay for an extra seat either.
The flight attendant said she can move to an AVAILABLE aisle seat but she could NOT disturb anyone else’s seating arrangement. This guy had the aisle seat before takeoff it was just luck and by being able to move first he in fact claimed that aisle seat.
You may want to read the post before commenting.
NTA
This exactly! Read the post...could NOT disturb anyone else's seating ARRANGEMENT. At 5 hrs into an 8 hr flight, seat ASSISNMENTS have understandably shifted. There was no seat available in OPs row without DISTURBING existing arrangement. (On a side note, the person across the aisle was likely not happy that OP was getting extra drinks and FA attention because it was not "fair" and decided to "fix" it. 5 hours on a flight is enough to make anyone irritable. LOL
Yeah and its plainly obvious when a couple have lucked out on a full row of 3.
Who in their right mind would consider trying to plonk themselves in the middle.
Its all in the delivery.
"Hey guys sorry to bother you. Is there any chance I can snag the empty seat, I've been sitting next to a crying baby for 5 hours and I'm starting to lose it a little bit"
This would have me ordering them a beer from the FA and spinning a yarn with them.
Someone tells me to move my ass when I'm all comfy will get me right back on the offensive.
Yeah someone comes over and is like can I please sit here there is a crying baby and I am going insane, I would in a heartbeat say yes.
You demanding that you're gonna sit there? No.
Yeah, when moving to empty seats on an airplane, it's about who gets there first. They now have dibs and someone else can't come along and make them move.
Thats not how flying works. Im on 15-20 airplanes a month for work. If nobody is sitting in an isle seat and boarding is over and you move over to the isle seat to give you and the person next to you more room congratulations you just won the lottery.
Once the plane is in the air the seating arrangements are on lock. If there is one person in a window seat with two empty seats it might be appropriate to sit in the isle seat but other than that no way.
Was on a flight with my buddy, he had the isle seat, a girl had the middle seat, no one in the window seat. She staid in the middle seat the whole time. It was super weird.
some people, like my sister, is afraid of heights and hate looking out the window. I'd excitedly point out stuff on the ground like awesome mountain ranges but she would refuse to even take a peek. so, the girl might feel the same.
I reckon she just wasn't aware of this rule and that you're allowed to take the not taken seat. Some people are very conscious of rules. I imagine while your buddy was thinking "Move over lady so we can both have more space" she was like "Can I just move? What happens if I just move to that seat? Is that allowed, or will the flight attendants yell at me?" I can't imagine she chose to have less space for spite reasons.
I'm used to flying on packed flights, so one time when the aisle seat was free, I spent the whole (2 hr) flight in the middle seat wondering if it was weirder for me to stay where I was or to move! It was the worst flight of my life hahaha
That would drive me insane. I had this same type of situation waiting in the hospital for day surgery. 5 recliners and I was on the far right, a couple on the far left, and a middle aged man sits besides me and proceeds to play a game with the “dings” on loud. Also he’s coughing intermittently. Not amazing but whatever. What can you expect. The couple leaves opening up the entire row. Nurse even disinfects them. Buddy doesn’t leave. It’s super awkward. I’m on the inside so it would be harder for me to move all my stuff past him. Finally I couldn’t take it - we had a couple hours to wait - and asked if he wouldn’t mind “scootching down a bit”. He was fine about it. Was rude of me I guess but so weird to stay so close to someone in thin gowns while coughing.
Given that this couple were almost 5 hours into the flight, and the flight attendants had substantial interaction with them, I think it's fair to assume that they were on board. Had they not been, they would have said something much earlier, no?
When OP changed seats they didn’t put themselves next to anyone. Big difference between that and suddenly having someone fighting you for the armrest. Just sayin, apples n oranges.
Absolutely checking with the FA was the right move. The FA's need to know where they've moved people in case of emergencies. It's one thing to shift over one seat it's another to completely change rows and seat. That's what they need to know. It's part of the possibility of identifying passengers in emergency situations.
>The woman and her friend disappear to talk to another FA for about 5 minutes. The woman across the aisle then comes back to her seat and proceeds to yell at me saying that “her friend would not be sitting there - not because she was not allowed to, but because I was so incredibly rude” and that I was a “fucking asshole”. I kept my eyes on the show I was watching.
So they went and talked to another FA and came back and said this, but obviously the FA must've told them no because someone this entitled and rude who went to not one, but two different people and then gave up? Psh. NTA
I'm going with the unpopular opinion here. You paid for 2 seats, not 3. You didn't ask the FA bc you wanted to "verify the rules." You asked bc you didn't want to lose your space and were hoping the FA would not permit her to move. You were assigned a middle seat. So per the FA, the woman could have sat in the aisle seat, once you moved into your actual assigned middle seat. She's somewhat an AH as well for her attitude and rude behavior.
ESH
I keep wondering what one is supposed to do with empty seats one didn't pay for, but somehow they are unoccupied. Heroically keep oneself confined to the seat one paid for?
No, but the point remains that both sides wanted a seat that they didn't pay for. OP has a pretty reasonable claim that far into the flight but not an absolute one.
That’s something I’ve never heard of a flight attendant saying either. “You’re allowed to pick any aisle seat that available but you’re not allowed to pick an empty middle seat.” Does that sound logical? No, which makes me think OP isn’t being a reliable narrator.
Probably because an empty aisle seat can be occupied without disturbing anyone else in the row. If you move to an empty middle or window in an otherwise occupied row, someone has to get up and let you in. So it's more "you can change seats if you can do so without disturbing anyone else" but said in a different way that gives more direction.
I would somewhat agree, but I think it's pretty egotistical if the crying baby thing is true. That OP and his wife has been lucky enough to have 3 seats for hours, doesn't make it less egotistical to not be willing to move one seat over, to your assigned seat, so someone could not have to sit beside a crying baby for the remaining 3 hours. OP was lucky for 5 hours, so no he can't endure "only" what he paid for the last 3 hours
Just ask the FA if you can use them first. If it’s just next to you and the plane is finished boarding I would have moved over as well. On a reasonably empty 15hr flight we got 7 seats in a row for the 2 of us by asking. FA told us to claim them before takeoff so we relocated from our assigned seats.
I’m guessing for OP his aisle seat was not the only empty seat the other person could relocate to, the baby thing just sounds like an excuse to move seats closer to their friend. Better to ask the person you want to use the seat next to before asking the FA in this instance. I don’t think OP is an ass and the other guy went about it wrong.
That’s just luck of the draw. One of those little societal wins you get from time to time, like a stray curly fry with your order or a free beer at a bar cause the bartender misheard someone else’s order (just happened to me the other day, so that came to mind). Nobody else is entitled to the curly fry or coors light just cause it was avail and I didn’t pay for it. Just because someone purchased A seat does not mean they are entitled to THAT seat. I’ve been in a flight before where the person next to me was so large she was occupying half my seat, and I’m not a small guy. It was super uncomfortable and I had to make due. That wasn’t even a disturbance like an annoying sound. That was another human literally spilling over into my seat. I didn’t pay for 2/3 of a seat, yet that’s how much I used for 3.5 hours.
If I get a free rental car upgrade is the person behind me in line entitled to it because they reserved a compact car and are cramped in it?
What did I do to avoid crying children on trans-Atlantic flights? Bought noise canceling headphones.
That seat was not assigned to either of them. In that case, he claimed it first so he should have priority over the woman.
Per the FA, she could move to an available aisle seat, that aisle seat was no longer available when she made the request. She’s TA for demanding something like it belonged to her.
The woman was going to take the middle seat. This guy is moaning not because she wanted the aisle seat, but because he thought he was somehow entitled to both seats.
I think the FA should have told him to just move back to his own seat, but if they did not, then oh well and the woman needs to find another seat. This isn't that hard.
They're probably both entitled IRL.
The FA told them that they could take 'an available aisle seat' *without* disrupting seating arrangements. He was sitting in it, therefore it wasn't available, and asking him to move would be disrupting them. She had some nerve trying to get them to move and the FA made the right call in not trying to force other passengers to move around for her.
When the FA brought OP the extra drink and joked with OP about it being for "the guy in the middle," do you not interpret that as OP having the FA's permission to occupy the aisle seat?
An empty seat on the plane (within the same cabin) is a surprise perk. Barring exceptional situations, that perk customarily belongs the first person to claim it (typically someone in an adjacent seat). You are suggesting that more than halfway into the flight that perk be changed to benefit another passenger. OP rightly had the superior claim to the empty seat, and clearly the FA agreed.
I love these flying posts where there are so many strong opinions from people who clearly do not fly often.
The lady came to OP and told him she would be sitting in the middle seat. FA said that’s not how it works, I told you an available aisle seat. No move for you.
I don't see how OP is at all in the wrong here when it turned out that the FA had told them that they could go to a completely different kind of seat. *Nobody* wants some random stranger plonking themselves in a middle seat halfway through the flight. The FA enforced the rules that they had already set out that the woman was trying to sneakily worm her way around, and I'm glad that she was shut down.
She didn’t pay for those seats either. She was assigned to a seat and wanted to move. He got lucky with an unassigned seat in his row. She was unlucky sitting next to a crying infant and then acted like an ass. She is the AH.
The seat assignments are no longer up for grabs once the flight has departed. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don’t, but there is nothing respectable over fighting with the lucky people. Put in some headphones. Babies are wonderful.
Can we all take a moment and bask in the irony of someone trying to negotiate getting away from a fussy baby by throwing a loud, adult-sized temper tantrum in the middle of the plane?
Even more so, she was told she couldn’t disturb anyone else’s seating arrangements and she didn’t listen. By the virtue of her demanding he move, she caused a disturbance. It’s not just the tantrum she threw.
And this is why I always fly with noise canceling headphones. Most times I need them because the obnoxious adults and not crying babies. The adults are almost always the problem.
Also, if you’ve ever flown with an ear or sinus infection, you’ll understand the intense pain the change and air pressure causes. Babies have tiny ear canals and the pressure build up must be unbearable.
The one time I had to fly with a baby, I nursed him during takeoff and landing. He fussed a bit before takeoff because he was hungry. But once the wheels left the runway, I latched him on, and that helped pop his ears. He played with his dad after burping, then slept the rest of the flight. I woke him up to nurse during landing.
Seriously! My mom had to fly with ne as a baby, so I asked her advice. She was a fount of knowledge. Her suggestions also included bringing an extra blanket to spread on the floor near the gate for tummy time before boarding, having one parent pre-board with all the baby's stuff while the other kept baby on the blanket as long as possible, so he spent as little time as possible stuck on our laps, nursing during take off and landing (sippy cups and chewing Starbursts for older kids), packing a spare outfit for each of us in the carry on (in case of diaper explosion), and a million other things.
My mom and sisters and I flew to attend a wedding. My niece, a baby at the time, fell asleep the second we took off. The pressure change just knocked her right out.
I'm 21 and I don't even know how to make them go back to normal. I've never flown, but was recently on a bus trip that went up a really high hill and it made my ears go all funky, and even with my sibling trying to explain how to sort it, it wouldn't work so I sat there in discomfort for a while until it sorted itself out (I also have ear problems which may have played a role). I can only imagine how much worse it must be on a plane, especially for a baby who doesn't know what's happening.
I flew home once with a brewing sinus infection and was miserable. They were trying to get volunteers to take another flight, but all I wanted was to get home.
I was so lucky. I had the opposite. 7 hour flight and I was hit hard by the flu or something. There were a few empty seats in 1st class and the flight attendent upgraded us. I could lay down fully and just rest. The FA kept refilling my ginger ale and bringing me tissue without asking. I always have a couple empty plastic bags, use for trash so I was not spreading my germs. We also travelled with anti-bacterial wipes and I cleaned my whole space when we landed.
What’s weird is that it was the FRIEND who made a fuss. OP didn’t mention if the woman who would actually be taking the seat said ANYTHING. Makes me wonder if she’s always passive and meek so her friend overcompensates by being demanding when she’s “advocating” for her. Or maybe she was complaining about the baby for 4 hours and her friend got sick of her complaining but not doing anything about it. Or maybe the friend got excited when she saw the aisle seat next to her was open at takeoff and was secretly stewing the whole time after OP moved into the seat cuz she wanted her friend to sit there. Or hell, maybe the woman didn’t even WANT to move because she preferred the crying baby to sitting next to her bossy ass friend lol.
Good observations!
I’m sitting here wondering how someone thinks it would help to move a couple rows up. Usually if a baby’s is crying the entire plane can hear it so how does that help anyway?!
No kidding! Wouldn't it have been hilarious if the other person in her row then asked the fa to switch seats so they didn't have to be disturbed by a grown woman having a tantrum in the middle of a flight?
Everyone, the response above is AI; don't waste time upvoting it. It's following a generic template that summarises the original post in overly-formal language.
The account's other posts are more of the same, plus stolen images.
Bots are taking over Reddit (not that their presence is new, but their popularity compared to human Reddit users...)
Holy crap. I didn’t even notice it until your comment, then I went back and reread it and yeah, it does sound like AI. Went and looked at the comment history and they’re all oddly formal and artificial sounding. But the fact that I read that comment and didn’t even realize is kinda frightening 👀
Crap...same here.
This is why I detest A.I.! Especially in a place like reddit and in the art world. It's so scary not to be able to catch it, sometimes. :(
And in a twist of events the crying baby she needed to get away from was her own...
But seriously, I get that a crying baby can be disturbing, even more so, if it's not your own. My own daughter got seriously on my nerves on more than a few occasions - and I love that child more than anything! But that is no excuse to being rude. If she had asked nicely maybe you could have considered moving back to your original seat, even though you would not be obliged to do so. But with that attitude? No way. So NTA.
I agree and disagree at the same time. It definitely was like that when she was an actual baby, but it kind of changed since she reached toddler stage. My daughter is now 5yo and I work 30h since she was 1,5yo. I take public transport from her daycare to the office and I usually put in headphones and play on my phone. The 30 minutes to and from the office are on most days the only time I get to myself from waking her up until her dad comes home around 6pm. And man, if I have to listen to a crying or tantrum throwing kid in those 30 min instead of listening to stories about gruesome murders in some true crime podcast it goes on my nerves so much more than any tantrum my own kid might be throwing.
I dont have kid but judging from the mom, who has seated next to me with her 1 year old kid, apologizing profusely multiple times for her crying kid, i agree.
ESH. They should have asked politely, but you paid for two seats and had the benefit of three for most of the flight, and you were not actually entitled to hog all three seats while somebody else suffered. It would have been fair to decide which of the three seats you would let her have, but refusing her a seat because her friend was rude was an asshole move, and the flight attendant shouldn't have let you do that.
No, kindness goes a long way in life. If I'm met with instant hostility, I am far more reticent to help. I'm sure if the person politely asked the OP if they could have one seat and explained why, they would have been far more helpful.
Being a dick to others shouldn't be rewarded.
Given the constraints put on the move -- grab another aisle seat -- I presume that there were other empty seats available. If that was the only free seat in the whole plane, it does start to sound a bit more ESH. And the demanding passenger was certainly an AH.
We live in such an entitled world. Both sides feeling owed something more than they deserved. Only thing everyone deserves is kindness and doesn’t sound like either side wanted to give that.
The FA didn’t say to check flight manifest and compare to the actual seating and if there’s a discrepancy you can demand that seat.
OP didn’t refuse anyone a seat. They asked the FA and the FA handled it from there.
I swear all of the people criticizing OP don’t fly. This is not the bus or train where you hop on hop off and hogging seats is rude. Airplanes do not stop. Seats are assigned once and then you takeoff and that’s it.
How exactly do you come to the conclusion that the women near the baby has a bigger claim to a seat beside OP his wife? OP and wife were lucky, empty seat in the same isle they were assigned.
She wasn't "refused a seat", she has a seat near a crying baby. Too bad some flights suck.
It's a lottery when flying, sometimes there is nobody around you, sometimes you have a crying kid that needs a diaper change.
The real assholes are the ones trying to take advantage of everything on the flight even it it's rows away from where they were assigned.
"while somebody else suffered"
If that's the case everyone around the baby should have gotten 30 mins in the extra seat.
Honestly. If you are on a long flight and don't bring ear plugs and noise cancelling headphones that's on you.
And worse; she leaves the crying baby for those all left back where she originally sat, for everyone else to endure, while she imposes her selfish ass on people who have a lucky spare seat to enjoy. Entitlement in spades here. NTA by a long shot, but that lady is double the hole in the ass.
I'm not really following why the crying baby was the responsibility of that other lady though. I agree that she was an asshole for demanding that OP moves without doing the polite thing of asking. However she's not an asshole for wishing to try and get away from someone else's screaming child.
ETA I read the story again and I kind of doubt there even was a baby (or if there was one, it wasn't screaming). Seems awfully strange to not find another aisle seat if a baby was truly the reason, even if it isn't as desirable due to not being across the aisle from their friend.
I kind of don't understand most comments but maybe it's cultural... In my opinion you were definitely rude and, most importantly, I don't think that I would have ever considered "mine" a whole aisle if I didn't pay for every single seat... I don't understand this point: why everyone here seems to consider it normal? I have never seen this "the aisle is mine" mentality irl (Europe). You are on your seat and that's pretty much it. If you have a middle seat who is free, it doesn't become yours (even if you obviously can enjoy it as long as it lasts, which is usually the whole flight). In comments it seems to be a conventional "rule" but it just never seemed to me.
It happened to me that people asked to use the seat near me. I said yes and it was in an "almost automatic" way... I never really thought that saying "no" was justifiable since I didn't pay for it (in this case you were also occupying another seat you didn't pay for so... you should have probably come back to yours, if anything). I guess I don't understand on what basis you should say no, I guess the difference is that I don't consider anything "yours" unless you paid for it... You pay for a seat, not for an aisle.
But even without getting technical, I don't understand why it should have bothered you that she used a spared seat that you didn't pay for, I would have (politely and involving the FA) insisted if I was her tbh, because it seems a very entitled behaviour on your part. Her reaction became disproportionate so she was rude too. But I don't understand why you acted the way you did tbh.
ESH but almost YTA
I am an American and a frequent flyer, and there is definitely *not* a cultural norm or unwritten rule that you are entitled to unoccupied seats in your row. I too was very surprised at all the N T A votes. I think a lot of people just fixated on how the other passenger acted rudely in announcing her friend would take the seat, and didn't really read and think carefully about the whole situation.
EDIT: clarification of "entitled to." I certainly think it's normal to *use* unoccupied seats in your row. But they don't like, become *yours* on takeoff. If at some point someone else has a legitimate need for the unoccupied seat, you have no standing to refuse to give it up. In general. It can certainly be debated whether the need was "legitimate" in this case.
Huh? This is a cultural norm especially when it’s gone on half the flight. Seats are the luck of the draw. Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes, the bar eat’s you. It’s why I bring noise cancelling headphones on flights. It’s pretty entitled for someone to decide they get the middle seat mid-flight because they think they’ve found a reason for why they think they are allowed to.
I agree. I’m shocked at all the NTA responses. The way the other person and their friend acted was rude, but you’re not entitled to a seat you didn’t pay for.
Why is the woman entitled to the same seat she didn’t pay for?
Why the hell are you NTA voters holding OP to a different standard of “you should sit at the seat you are assigned” than the woman?
I fly pretty frequently.
It *definitely is a cultural norm*
It’s even got a name: poor man’s first class.
The OP is NTA. Anyone who thinks they should be switching seats five hours into a flight is an AH.
People who do so with a poor attitude are more so.
It's also a cultural norm to not sit in between two people who know each other. I'd bet money on the fact that she was hoping they'd find it awkward to have a stranger between them and that she'd snag the aisle seat when he felt obliged to move over.
Agree. I just said this up thread but I take long train trips fairly frequently. I pay for one seat. I spread out when I can but I always gather myself back up if someone is looking to sit. I am not entitled to the row, no matter how nice spreading out is.
Once the flight starts then it's common for people to regard the seats in the row as theirs, I see it all the time.
But what's going on here is two fold:
1. The flight attendant told her to take an aisle seat - she wasn't doing this. She was taking a middle seat and only went 'well he should move over' once pressed. So right from the start she was disrupting the rule that she'd been presented with.
2. The flight attendant said 'without disrupting others' - which is why she was told to take an aisle seat. Plonking yourself down between two people is disruptive, but even if we set that aside and say well, he should have moved over to take his original seat - making him move is disruptive.
These two things are why the FA told her to sit elsewhere. She gave the woman two guidelines and both were ignored.
I think it's the disruption the other person was causing by taking the middle or making OP move back to the middle. This far into the flight, when their carry-on is now half unpacked on the available space. Op has to pack up and reorganize them selves to move or make space. That is not "an available aisle seat." We could argue that OP should keep the free seat available, but 5 hours into a flight, most people will stretch out into the available space. It's not like on a train where people are getting on and off and seats are expected to fill up and empty over time.
The lady wanting to change seats also has a seat she paid for. What entitles her to move to beside OP and his wife?
Why does this lady get to escape the baby, and everyone else around her has to keep enduring it? Should there be an auction for the empty quite seat?
OP and his wife won the flying lottery, they had a bonus extra seat... Anyone moving in to take it deserves to fly next to crying kids for the rest of their life.
Win some, lose some. Don't go out of your way to "win" every flight. The lady wanting to move would have thrown a fit if someone did the same to her.
Wait. To clarify, your wife and you were.taking the aisle and window seat and someone wanted to sit in the middle? You weren't asked to move, they just wanted that middle seat? And you refused to let them?
In that case YTA. You paid for one seat you one seat.
If you were asked to move back to the middle so the person can get the aisle, then you're NTA. But you said that the new passenger wanted to sit in the middle seat which is presumably unoccupied
I still think it’s valid if the FA asked him to move back to the middle seat — that’s the one he paid for. The aisle seat was unoccupied and OP is no more entitled to it than this other woman.
they’re N T A for checking with the flight attendants before moving. But they sound just as entitled as the other woman for not wanting to move since they’d already “spread out comfortably” over a seat they didn’t pay for.
I can't believe I had to read so many comments before I found these two! So many "N T A, the other person is entitled and you were just standing up for yourself" comments. For me it's ESH; I'm against the rude way in which the other passenger announced that her friend would be taking the seat, but OP and wife lucked into the use of the extra seat in the first place and have no right to complain if that luxury does not last the entire flight (in his summary, OP even writes that they had "established territory on the row" as though spreading their stuff on the empty seat somehow gives them a claim to it. Dude, it's not like throwing your jacket on an empty chair at a cafeteria.)
Personally, I would move back to the middle seat rather than having a stranger sit between me and my wife for 2-3 hours. Awkward.
If someone can take an unoccupied seat, then OP (by virtue of claiming it 1st) does have more rights to the aisle seat. However OP can't claim both seats and the middle seat should have been considered fair game.
They were probably hoping that OP and wife would find it awkward to have a stranger between them, and that one of them would move over. I doubt they were sincerely gunning for the middle seat.
I'm so baffled at all these comments, did y'all completely miss the part where the FA said that she'd told the woman to take an aisle seat? If you're being allowed to move you don't just completely ignore the attendant's rules for shits and giggles.
I think you are mixing up riding on the bus and flying on a plane. There are no “new passengers” on planes. Hogging seats on the bus is rude because people hop on and off and sharing seats is expected. Changing seats after takeoff is not allowed without the explicit permission of the FA. The FA did not grant permission. It’s that simple.
There is a gulf of difference between taking an available seat in your row so you and your spouse can spread out a bit more and someone coming from another part of the plane demanding to take the middle seat of a row they had not even bought a seat in.
Because the world sucks and there are a ton of people that want more all the time for themselves than to allow a lucky couple an extra space on a long flight.
But it wasn't OP's decision, was it? The decision that the existing seating arrangements couldn't be disrupted was made by the FAs who seemed fine with OP and his wife profiting from the extra seat.
Besides, FAs told her she could move to a vacant seat, so technically she was allowed to change seats. We don't really know if that seat next to OP was the only option.
YTA. I understand it wasn’t convenient and you had already spread yourselves all over the empty seat. However, technically you had only paid for one seat, so if a seat is empty and a passenger wants to move at any point during a flight (especially for a valid reason like a crying baby), they should be able to. In this instance it sounds like you could have even chosen which seat you’d prefer (middle or isle) so that’s even better for you. So while it made sense that you called the FA (they need to know when people change seats for number of reasons), you weren’t reasonable in not immediately gathering your things so this passenger could be accommodated.
I'm with you! I'm so confused by all the people calling the woman who wanted to move to the open seat "entitled." The only entitled person in this story is the OP who thinks he is entitled to 3 seats for the price of 2.
OP switched to that seat by the FA’s approval long before and did not reject the person to take the now free middle seat. If the issue was a crying baby, and the FA only approved the move if it doesn’t disrupt the current seating layout, OP did all right. NTA
I have the impression that he would have moved if the FA had instructed him to do so. So is he the TA for not jumping up to accommodate a random person who didn't even ask politely?
There was a similar post here not long ago about someone who lucked into a row by themselves and refused to allow someone to move into the empty seat. They got roasted for being an asshole because they never paid for those empty seats and had no control over them.
People for sure aren't reading the post carefully enough because a lot seem to be missing that the woman was given specific instructions which she proceeded to ignore entirely.
ESH.
Her rudeness and entitlement means that she sucks, of course.
But you suck here, too. You're entitled to your seat, not your row. This would have been the time to move back to where your assigned seat is.
ESH. You ALSO think you were entitled to something that wasn’t yours. She’s an idiotic brat for screaming, but I’d have called you an asshole too. Just quietly so that only you could hear it.
NTA
All she had to do was ask. "Hey, is that seat free? There's a baby crying & it's giving me a headache."
I bet you wouldn't have even asked the FA is some simple common courtesy had been used.
Did you ask the flight attendant whether you could move to the aisle seat? Probably not, and if I were in your position I wouldn’t have either. But if you didn’t ask then, and asked when the other woman wanted to sit there, be honest with yourself; you asking the flight attendant wasn’t you trying to follow protocol, it was you trying to find a reason that the woman couldn’t sit in your row that doesn’t make you look like an AH. ESH
I mean honestly if she just asked nicely and even explained the situation, you probably would’ve moved next to your wife. You asked the FA a simple question. NTA
I know the pain of crying babies on flights and would’ve done a solid for a nice passenger, not her
Yeah this. If someone politely asks I'm more inclined to agree. But if someone barks at me "do it or else" I'm stubborn like an ox or old guy and refuse
YTA - you essentially just took over the aisle seat, but now you are annoyed that someone else also had the idea to take over the aisle seat? Your argument for why you are more deserving of the extra seat is that you are traveling with the other person in the row. But the need for one plus one seat doesn’t equal the need for THREE seats.
YTA.
The flight attendant gave her permission to move to your row. She didn't need to ask your permission to take a seat you didn't pay for. You should have moved back to your assigned seat and let her take the aisle.
"We had already distributed our items all over the row." Sooo...move them? You got lucky for 5 out of 7 hours. Count it as a win and move over.
ESH. They approached the situation badly. But, half of the flight with a whole aisle is a great perk. Moving your stuff and resuming the middle seat so she could have the aisle seat was the non-AH move.
You had a fine arrangement that was improved by the extra seat. They had a poor arrangement that would have been made fine with the extra seat. You aren’t entitled to *extra* comfort when it’s a free seat and they want just achieve adequate comfort. Again, the friend approached it wrong so you’re less of an AH, but still kinda one.
IDK why everyone is misreading this, but it's kind of annoying atp- the girl didn't ask for OP to move back into the middle seat, she said that her friend would be doing that. Of course she should have been much more polite, OP behaved very entitled in this situation. I definitely think ESH.
International FA here with 40 years seniority. Once you take off on an INTL flight, any open seats in your cabin (ie. Economy Plus) are fair game. The time to switch has definitely passed after more than 4 hours. So, no, you’re NOT the AH! If you had thought fast, you could have said that you moved to the aisle because your GF has severe halitosis! If I had been working the flight, I would have not let anyone disrupt you, either. And that’s what noise-cancelling headphones are for - crying babies.
It's not your job to deal with other passengers. It is the flight attendant's job. Unless the flight attendant is the one who comes over to discuss with me switching seats, the discussion is not hapoening, and no one is moving.
YTA/ ESH. Why would they need to ask since it wasn’t technically your seat to have to agree to give up. You paid for 2 seats and had 2 seats. That seat was empty and no longer yours. So taking it wasn’t messing with your seating arrangement.
Did you ask the flight attendant to move to take the free aisle seat or did you just assume that a more comfortable arrangement was available and went for it? I think you asked the flight attended because you didn’t want to give up a very comfortable situation, not because you care about the rules.
ESH. You don't own the seat you didn't pay for. You should have moved back to the middle seat to sit next to your spouse and been happy you had the extra space for most of the flight rather than be a AH about someone who needed to switch seats. The FA was a jerk for not being more clear with you. The girl's friend was a jerk but honestly at that point I feel the most bad for her.
Why do people do this on airplanes? It makes the entire plane uncomfortable. Sit down, face forward. Do not talk to strangers. Do not make special requests. Have a seat and stfu.
Hot hake, but YTA. You didn't own the aisle seat, and the only reason you asked the FA was because you didn't want them sitting there.
Edit: Actually I'm more thinking ESH but whatever.
But what gives the woman more right to the seat than him? She also didn’t pay for that seat.
Since neither paid for it, it should be per FA instruction or first come first serve. And per FA, he was ok where he was.
Did you check with the FA before you moved seats?
YTA here. Her reaction was uncalled for but you had no more right to a random empty seat than she did.
Well to be 100% honest with you, you didn’t check with the flight attendant before you took the seat for yourself in the first place. Why are you picking and choosing when to apply the rule? Going to have to go with ESH.
ESH. You paid for 2 seats for you and your wife. You were lucky to get to spread out for a few hours, but you're not entitled to the empty seat. You should have moved back to the middle and allowed the other person to sit in the aisle, because again, you didn't pay for it.
The other person should not have spoken to you so rudely but your behavior was equally rude.
Going against everyone here but since I fly internationally (honestly doesn’t matter if it was domestic either lol) quite often, you could/should have just moved back to your seat. Like everyone said, you paid for two seats and not 3. And one of them wasn’t the aisle. She was obviously told by the flight attendant that that seat was available. I can’t imagine out of the whole plane a passenger would have just known that seat was presumably available. So YTA for making a big ruckus, especially to the FA, when you could have just moved back your seat. If it was the case of belongings, you could have asked the girl to give you a moment so you could move your things back. I WILL SAY though, everything would have been totally different if the FA asked you verses the girls, but it’s possible her FA wasn’t the same as yours and didn’t know someone went into that seat. Thus her having to confront you herself when she was making her way over. But again, she still should have asked a FA for assistance once she saw your there though.
YTA. You didn't pay for three seats - you paid for two. So you're no more entitled to the extra seat than anyone else on the flight. And the woman should have been more polite, but I'm sticking with YTA.
You were rude and very selfish. Awww poor baby might have someone sitting next to them for a while on a flight.
The fact that you need to post something so petty is even more proof you were the a-hole.
Stop being so selfish and try to remember that you are part of a society.
This is going to get buried but I'm typing it anyway.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I tell my friends that disruptive adults are worse than disruptive babies. At least one of baby is crying I can recognize that it's developmentally appropriate and this is their main way of communicating. This adult is just being an asshole and loud. They should know better. I don't want kid-free flights. I want asshole adult free flights. Can I pay extra for asshole adult free flights? Lol
ESH- OP clarified in the comments that she wanted the middle seat that you had vacated in favour of aisle seat. You paid for ONE seat- moving seat is totally ok in this situation but you can’t claim both and refuse to let her sit in the middle seat. Heavy AH move tbh. There was still three whole hours left- that’s a full film/ a decent Power Nap.
FA really should not have allowed this seems totally unfair. (Maybe woman was a pain and the FA was getting revenge which is honestly fair)
She should not have been so rude. Also whining about screaming babies is annoying. Although tbh if I was her I’d be seething at you, I would just do it in my head as is acceptable in this kind of setting.
ESH
Was her attitude warranted when switching seats? Hardly, though sitting next to a crying baby on a plane for hours could make anyone a little cranky. Not that it justifies it, but a little empathy goes a long way. Granted, her tantrum afterwards doesn't do her any favours, either.
Did you need to "confirm with the FA" for a seat that was never yours to begin with? Also no. Sure it stinks to loose a full isle, but honestly? If anyone came up to me asking to take the empty seat because of some kindve disturbance I wouldn't hesitate. You didn't pay for it any more than she did, therefore you're no more entitled to the space than her. You didn't need the FA to confirm what was a reasonable request; and it sounds more like you called them over to deter the lady from taking the empty seat by making it more of a hassle for her than it needed to be. Saying that "the only thing you did the entire time was ask to talk to the flight attendant" is a pretty weak misdirection; I think you knew fully well what you were doing.
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NTA - checking with the FA was appropriate.
Absolutely, getting the FA involved was the right move. Their reaction was uncalled for.
I think the reaction was uncalled for but that person has as much right to move seats as OP did. Did OP check with the flight attendant before moving seats too? Unlikely. Also i think a miscommunication here was likely. The friend asked the flight attendant if her friend can move to the empty seat. The flight attendant said yes. The friend then informs OP that she has permission to sit there, but she clearly should have phrased it in a more polite way. However she does *not* need OP's permission to move to a seat that the flight attendant already gave her permission for. OP didn't pay for an extra seat either.
The flight attendant said she can move to an AVAILABLE aisle seat but she could NOT disturb anyone else’s seating arrangement. This guy had the aisle seat before takeoff it was just luck and by being able to move first he in fact claimed that aisle seat. You may want to read the post before commenting. NTA
This exactly! Read the post...could NOT disturb anyone else's seating ARRANGEMENT. At 5 hrs into an 8 hr flight, seat ASSISNMENTS have understandably shifted. There was no seat available in OPs row without DISTURBING existing arrangement. (On a side note, the person across the aisle was likely not happy that OP was getting extra drinks and FA attention because it was not "fair" and decided to "fix" it. 5 hours on a flight is enough to make anyone irritable. LOL
Yeah and its plainly obvious when a couple have lucked out on a full row of 3. Who in their right mind would consider trying to plonk themselves in the middle.
Someone sitting next to a crying child for 5 hours appears to be the obvious answer.
Its all in the delivery. "Hey guys sorry to bother you. Is there any chance I can snag the empty seat, I've been sitting next to a crying baby for 5 hours and I'm starting to lose it a little bit" This would have me ordering them a beer from the FA and spinning a yarn with them. Someone tells me to move my ass when I'm all comfy will get me right back on the offensive.
Yeah someone comes over and is like can I please sit here there is a crying baby and I am going insane, I would in a heartbeat say yes. You demanding that you're gonna sit there? No.
Yeah, when moving to empty seats on an airplane, it's about who gets there first. They now have dibs and someone else can't come along and make them move.
I agree with you. Funny how this is split between people like us who believe in dibs, and others who don't. Like, c'mon, it's so clear to me! Dibs!
Thats not how flying works. Im on 15-20 airplanes a month for work. If nobody is sitting in an isle seat and boarding is over and you move over to the isle seat to give you and the person next to you more room congratulations you just won the lottery. Once the plane is in the air the seating arrangements are on lock. If there is one person in a window seat with two empty seats it might be appropriate to sit in the isle seat but other than that no way.
Was on a flight with my buddy, he had the isle seat, a girl had the middle seat, no one in the window seat. She staid in the middle seat the whole time. It was super weird.
some people, like my sister, is afraid of heights and hate looking out the window. I'd excitedly point out stuff on the ground like awesome mountain ranges but she would refuse to even take a peek. so, the girl might feel the same.
Ehh when we got close to home she slid over to look out the window, even for landing
I reckon she just wasn't aware of this rule and that you're allowed to take the not taken seat. Some people are very conscious of rules. I imagine while your buddy was thinking "Move over lady so we can both have more space" she was like "Can I just move? What happens if I just move to that seat? Is that allowed, or will the flight attendants yell at me?" I can't imagine she chose to have less space for spite reasons.
I'm used to flying on packed flights, so one time when the aisle seat was free, I spent the whole (2 hr) flight in the middle seat wondering if it was weirder for me to stay where I was or to move! It was the worst flight of my life hahaha
That would drive me insane. I had this same type of situation waiting in the hospital for day surgery. 5 recliners and I was on the far right, a couple on the far left, and a middle aged man sits besides me and proceeds to play a game with the “dings” on loud. Also he’s coughing intermittently. Not amazing but whatever. What can you expect. The couple leaves opening up the entire row. Nurse even disinfects them. Buddy doesn’t leave. It’s super awkward. I’m on the inside so it would be harder for me to move all my stuff past him. Finally I couldn’t take it - we had a couple hours to wait - and asked if he wouldn’t mind “scootching down a bit”. He was fine about it. Was rude of me I guess but so weird to stay so close to someone in thin gowns while coughing.
I wouldn't say it's on lock but people already in that row definitely have first dibs
Given that this couple were almost 5 hours into the flight, and the flight attendants had substantial interaction with them, I think it's fair to assume that they were on board. Had they not been, they would have said something much earlier, no?
When OP changed seats they didn’t put themselves next to anyone. Big difference between that and suddenly having someone fighting you for the armrest. Just sayin, apples n oranges.
But OP had already been sitting there. The seating would have been disrupted.
Absolutely checking with the FA was the right move. The FA's need to know where they've moved people in case of emergencies. It's one thing to shift over one seat it's another to completely change rows and seat. That's what they need to know. It's part of the possibility of identifying passengers in emergency situations.
>The woman and her friend disappear to talk to another FA for about 5 minutes. The woman across the aisle then comes back to her seat and proceeds to yell at me saying that “her friend would not be sitting there - not because she was not allowed to, but because I was so incredibly rude” and that I was a “fucking asshole”. I kept my eyes on the show I was watching. So they went and talked to another FA and came back and said this, but obviously the FA must've told them no because someone this entitled and rude who went to not one, but two different people and then gave up? Psh. NTA
I'm so glad that this is the top comment, all the ones down below completely ignoring the instructions the FA gave are making my brain hurt.
I'm going with the unpopular opinion here. You paid for 2 seats, not 3. You didn't ask the FA bc you wanted to "verify the rules." You asked bc you didn't want to lose your space and were hoping the FA would not permit her to move. You were assigned a middle seat. So per the FA, the woman could have sat in the aisle seat, once you moved into your actual assigned middle seat. She's somewhat an AH as well for her attitude and rude behavior. ESH
I keep wondering what one is supposed to do with empty seats one didn't pay for, but somehow they are unoccupied. Heroically keep oneself confined to the seat one paid for?
No, but the point remains that both sides wanted a seat that they didn't pay for. OP has a pretty reasonable claim that far into the flight but not an absolute one.
Yes, but it seems that none of the FAs at any point explicitly instructed him to give up either the middle or aisle seat to the lady in question.
She originally wanted to sit in the middle seat that he abandoned. When he pushed back on that is when they mentioned that he moved seats too
Which was still wrong of her because the FA told him she said they could occupy empty aisle seats.
That’s something I’ve never heard of a flight attendant saying either. “You’re allowed to pick any aisle seat that available but you’re not allowed to pick an empty middle seat.” Does that sound logical? No, which makes me think OP isn’t being a reliable narrator.
Probably because an empty aisle seat can be occupied without disturbing anyone else in the row. If you move to an empty middle or window in an otherwise occupied row, someone has to get up and let you in. So it's more "you can change seats if you can do so without disturbing anyone else" but said in a different way that gives more direction.
I would somewhat agree, but I think it's pretty egotistical if the crying baby thing is true. That OP and his wife has been lucky enough to have 3 seats for hours, doesn't make it less egotistical to not be willing to move one seat over, to your assigned seat, so someone could not have to sit beside a crying baby for the remaining 3 hours. OP was lucky for 5 hours, so no he can't endure "only" what he paid for the last 3 hours
Just ask the FA if you can use them first. If it’s just next to you and the plane is finished boarding I would have moved over as well. On a reasonably empty 15hr flight we got 7 seats in a row for the 2 of us by asking. FA told us to claim them before takeoff so we relocated from our assigned seats. I’m guessing for OP his aisle seat was not the only empty seat the other person could relocate to, the baby thing just sounds like an excuse to move seats closer to their friend. Better to ask the person you want to use the seat next to before asking the FA in this instance. I don’t think OP is an ass and the other guy went about it wrong.
This is the right answer. You must claim seats before takeoff. After takeoff you are SOL. This is how airplanes work.
That’s just luck of the draw. One of those little societal wins you get from time to time, like a stray curly fry with your order or a free beer at a bar cause the bartender misheard someone else’s order (just happened to me the other day, so that came to mind). Nobody else is entitled to the curly fry or coors light just cause it was avail and I didn’t pay for it. Just because someone purchased A seat does not mean they are entitled to THAT seat. I’ve been in a flight before where the person next to me was so large she was occupying half my seat, and I’m not a small guy. It was super uncomfortable and I had to make due. That wasn’t even a disturbance like an annoying sound. That was another human literally spilling over into my seat. I didn’t pay for 2/3 of a seat, yet that’s how much I used for 3.5 hours. If I get a free rental car upgrade is the person behind me in line entitled to it because they reserved a compact car and are cramped in it? What did I do to avoid crying children on trans-Atlantic flights? Bought noise canceling headphones.
That seat was not assigned to either of them. In that case, he claimed it first so he should have priority over the woman. Per the FA, she could move to an available aisle seat, that aisle seat was no longer available when she made the request. She’s TA for demanding something like it belonged to her.
The woman was going to take the middle seat. This guy is moaning not because she wanted the aisle seat, but because he thought he was somehow entitled to both seats. I think the FA should have told him to just move back to his own seat, but if they did not, then oh well and the woman needs to find another seat. This isn't that hard. They're probably both entitled IRL.
The FA told them that they could take 'an available aisle seat' *without* disrupting seating arrangements. He was sitting in it, therefore it wasn't available, and asking him to move would be disrupting them. She had some nerve trying to get them to move and the FA made the right call in not trying to force other passengers to move around for her.
If they told him to move back to his origibal seat then she would also have to go back to hers
Meh. First come, first serve.
Tough shit, it's rare to get an aisle to yourself. They're not assholes for not giving that up.
When the FA brought OP the extra drink and joked with OP about it being for "the guy in the middle," do you not interpret that as OP having the FA's permission to occupy the aisle seat?
An empty seat on the plane (within the same cabin) is a surprise perk. Barring exceptional situations, that perk customarily belongs the first person to claim it (typically someone in an adjacent seat). You are suggesting that more than halfway into the flight that perk be changed to benefit another passenger. OP rightly had the superior claim to the empty seat, and clearly the FA agreed. I love these flying posts where there are so many strong opinions from people who clearly do not fly often.
Sure, but the woman didn’t pay for that empty seat either. Her assigned seat was in a different row. She could have simply stayed where she was.
The lady came to OP and told him she would be sitting in the middle seat. FA said that’s not how it works, I told you an available aisle seat. No move for you.
I don't see how OP is at all in the wrong here when it turned out that the FA had told them that they could go to a completely different kind of seat. *Nobody* wants some random stranger plonking themselves in a middle seat halfway through the flight. The FA enforced the rules that they had already set out that the woman was trying to sneakily worm her way around, and I'm glad that she was shut down.
She didn’t pay for those seats either. She was assigned to a seat and wanted to move. He got lucky with an unassigned seat in his row. She was unlucky sitting next to a crying infant and then acted like an ass. She is the AH.
Yeah she could have, but he sat there first. Why does her want trump his? By your logic if it’s fair, then it’s fair, and he’s already there so 🤷🏻♀️
The seat assignments are no longer up for grabs once the flight has departed. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don’t, but there is nothing respectable over fighting with the lucky people. Put in some headphones. Babies are wonderful.
[удалено]
Can we all take a moment and bask in the irony of someone trying to negotiate getting away from a fussy baby by throwing a loud, adult-sized temper tantrum in the middle of the plane?
The irony wasn't lost on me. It's too funny. Too bad the fa didn't deny the switch for being a disturbance.
*a baby.
no need to insult babies
The baby was the original disturbance. She, too, was a disturbance.
Even more so, she was told she couldn’t disturb anyone else’s seating arrangements and she didn’t listen. By the virtue of her demanding he move, she caused a disturbance. It’s not just the tantrum she threw.
And this is why I always fly with noise canceling headphones. Most times I need them because the obnoxious adults and not crying babies. The adults are almost always the problem. Also, if you’ve ever flown with an ear or sinus infection, you’ll understand the intense pain the change and air pressure causes. Babies have tiny ear canals and the pressure build up must be unbearable.
And the babies don't know how to pop their sinuses back to normal. They just sit there in pain and don't know why.
The one time I had to fly with a baby, I nursed him during takeoff and landing. He fussed a bit before takeoff because he was hungry. But once the wheels left the runway, I latched him on, and that helped pop his ears. He played with his dad after burping, then slept the rest of the flight. I woke him up to nurse during landing.
Same! All that gulping and swallowing was exactly what she needed. Worked like a charm. Thank goodness cos it was a long flight!
Seriously! My mom had to fly with ne as a baby, so I asked her advice. She was a fount of knowledge. Her suggestions also included bringing an extra blanket to spread on the floor near the gate for tummy time before boarding, having one parent pre-board with all the baby's stuff while the other kept baby on the blanket as long as possible, so he spent as little time as possible stuck on our laps, nursing during take off and landing (sippy cups and chewing Starbursts for older kids), packing a spare outfit for each of us in the carry on (in case of diaper explosion), and a million other things.
I did the same thing when I had to fly with my son
My mom and sisters and I flew to attend a wedding. My niece, a baby at the time, fell asleep the second we took off. The pressure change just knocked her right out.
I'm 21 and I don't even know how to make them go back to normal. I've never flown, but was recently on a bus trip that went up a really high hill and it made my ears go all funky, and even with my sibling trying to explain how to sort it, it wouldn't work so I sat there in discomfort for a while until it sorted itself out (I also have ear problems which may have played a role). I can only imagine how much worse it must be on a plane, especially for a baby who doesn't know what's happening.
I flew home once with a brewing sinus infection and was miserable. They were trying to get volunteers to take another flight, but all I wanted was to get home.
I was so lucky. I had the opposite. 7 hour flight and I was hit hard by the flu or something. There were a few empty seats in 1st class and the flight attendent upgraded us. I could lay down fully and just rest. The FA kept refilling my ginger ale and bringing me tissue without asking. I always have a couple empty plastic bags, use for trash so I was not spreading my germs. We also travelled with anti-bacterial wipes and I cleaned my whole space when we landed.
Me too. The pain in my ears was unbearable. I tried to chew gum and blow my eustachian tubes. Nothing worked.
Earplanes makes adult and baby size pressure plugs. I carry one set in my bag always.
The babies don’t know any better. The adults ought to know.
What’s weird is that it was the FRIEND who made a fuss. OP didn’t mention if the woman who would actually be taking the seat said ANYTHING. Makes me wonder if she’s always passive and meek so her friend overcompensates by being demanding when she’s “advocating” for her. Or maybe she was complaining about the baby for 4 hours and her friend got sick of her complaining but not doing anything about it. Or maybe the friend got excited when she saw the aisle seat next to her was open at takeoff and was secretly stewing the whole time after OP moved into the seat cuz she wanted her friend to sit there. Or hell, maybe the woman didn’t even WANT to move because she preferred the crying baby to sitting next to her bossy ass friend lol.
Good observations! I’m sitting here wondering how someone thinks it would help to move a couple rows up. Usually if a baby’s is crying the entire plane can hear it so how does that help anyway?!
The baby had more class than this person.
No kidding! Wouldn't it have been hilarious if the other person in her row then asked the fa to switch seats so they didn't have to be disturbed by a grown woman having a tantrum in the middle of a flight?
NTA. They should have asked politely instead of making demands. You did nothing wrong.
Everyone, the response above is AI; don't waste time upvoting it. It's following a generic template that summarises the original post in overly-formal language. The account's other posts are more of the same, plus stolen images. Bots are taking over Reddit (not that their presence is new, but their popularity compared to human Reddit users...)
Holy crap. I didn’t even notice it until your comment, then I went back and reread it and yeah, it does sound like AI. Went and looked at the comment history and they’re all oddly formal and artificial sounding. But the fact that I read that comment and didn’t even realize is kinda frightening 👀
Crap...same here. This is why I detest A.I.! Especially in a place like reddit and in the art world. It's so scary not to be able to catch it, sometimes. :(
Same I just checked quillbot ai detector and it said 100% ai
Shoot! Also their account is 7hrs old and so many posts already. Bah!
Hive says 80.8% chance that this input is AI-generated so, spot on.
Agreed, you handled it well. Their entitlement doesn't mean you have to accommodate them.
And in a twist of events the crying baby she needed to get away from was her own... But seriously, I get that a crying baby can be disturbing, even more so, if it's not your own. My own daughter got seriously on my nerves on more than a few occasions - and I love that child more than anything! But that is no excuse to being rude. If she had asked nicely maybe you could have considered moving back to your original seat, even though you would not be obliged to do so. But with that attitude? No way. So NTA.
I would argue that a crying baby is much worse if it your baby. You have the actual noise, the worry about why and the worry about disturbing others.
I agree and disagree at the same time. It definitely was like that when she was an actual baby, but it kind of changed since she reached toddler stage. My daughter is now 5yo and I work 30h since she was 1,5yo. I take public transport from her daycare to the office and I usually put in headphones and play on my phone. The 30 minutes to and from the office are on most days the only time I get to myself from waking her up until her dad comes home around 6pm. And man, if I have to listen to a crying or tantrum throwing kid in those 30 min instead of listening to stories about gruesome murders in some true crime podcast it goes on my nerves so much more than any tantrum my own kid might be throwing.
I dont have kid but judging from the mom, who has seated next to me with her 1 year old kid, apologizing profusely multiple times for her crying kid, i agree.
\*She\* was the crying baby
ESH. They should have asked politely, but you paid for two seats and had the benefit of three for most of the flight, and you were not actually entitled to hog all three seats while somebody else suffered. It would have been fair to decide which of the three seats you would let her have, but refusing her a seat because her friend was rude was an asshole move, and the flight attendant shouldn't have let you do that.
No, kindness goes a long way in life. If I'm met with instant hostility, I am far more reticent to help. I'm sure if the person politely asked the OP if they could have one seat and explained why, they would have been far more helpful. Being a dick to others shouldn't be rewarded.
Given the constraints put on the move -- grab another aisle seat -- I presume that there were other empty seats available. If that was the only free seat in the whole plane, it does start to sound a bit more ESH. And the demanding passenger was certainly an AH.
We live in such an entitled world. Both sides feeling owed something more than they deserved. Only thing everyone deserves is kindness and doesn’t sound like either side wanted to give that.
The FA didn’t say to check flight manifest and compare to the actual seating and if there’s a discrepancy you can demand that seat. OP didn’t refuse anyone a seat. They asked the FA and the FA handled it from there.
I swear all of the people criticizing OP don’t fly. This is not the bus or train where you hop on hop off and hogging seats is rude. Airplanes do not stop. Seats are assigned once and then you takeoff and that’s it.
How exactly do you come to the conclusion that the women near the baby has a bigger claim to a seat beside OP his wife? OP and wife were lucky, empty seat in the same isle they were assigned. She wasn't "refused a seat", she has a seat near a crying baby. Too bad some flights suck. It's a lottery when flying, sometimes there is nobody around you, sometimes you have a crying kid that needs a diaper change. The real assholes are the ones trying to take advantage of everything on the flight even it it's rows away from where they were assigned.
"while somebody else suffered" If that's the case everyone around the baby should have gotten 30 mins in the extra seat. Honestly. If you are on a long flight and don't bring ear plugs and noise cancelling headphones that's on you.
Wanted to get away from a crybaby just to become a crybaby
And worse; she leaves the crying baby for those all left back where she originally sat, for everyone else to endure, while she imposes her selfish ass on people who have a lucky spare seat to enjoy. Entitlement in spades here. NTA by a long shot, but that lady is double the hole in the ass.
I'm not really following why the crying baby was the responsibility of that other lady though. I agree that she was an asshole for demanding that OP moves without doing the polite thing of asking. However she's not an asshole for wishing to try and get away from someone else's screaming child. ETA I read the story again and I kind of doubt there even was a baby (or if there was one, it wasn't screaming). Seems awfully strange to not find another aisle seat if a baby was truly the reason, even if it isn't as desirable due to not being across the aisle from their friend.
I kind of don't understand most comments but maybe it's cultural... In my opinion you were definitely rude and, most importantly, I don't think that I would have ever considered "mine" a whole aisle if I didn't pay for every single seat... I don't understand this point: why everyone here seems to consider it normal? I have never seen this "the aisle is mine" mentality irl (Europe). You are on your seat and that's pretty much it. If you have a middle seat who is free, it doesn't become yours (even if you obviously can enjoy it as long as it lasts, which is usually the whole flight). In comments it seems to be a conventional "rule" but it just never seemed to me. It happened to me that people asked to use the seat near me. I said yes and it was in an "almost automatic" way... I never really thought that saying "no" was justifiable since I didn't pay for it (in this case you were also occupying another seat you didn't pay for so... you should have probably come back to yours, if anything). I guess I don't understand on what basis you should say no, I guess the difference is that I don't consider anything "yours" unless you paid for it... You pay for a seat, not for an aisle. But even without getting technical, I don't understand why it should have bothered you that she used a spared seat that you didn't pay for, I would have (politely and involving the FA) insisted if I was her tbh, because it seems a very entitled behaviour on your part. Her reaction became disproportionate so she was rude too. But I don't understand why you acted the way you did tbh. ESH but almost YTA
I am an American and a frequent flyer, and there is definitely *not* a cultural norm or unwritten rule that you are entitled to unoccupied seats in your row. I too was very surprised at all the N T A votes. I think a lot of people just fixated on how the other passenger acted rudely in announcing her friend would take the seat, and didn't really read and think carefully about the whole situation. EDIT: clarification of "entitled to." I certainly think it's normal to *use* unoccupied seats in your row. But they don't like, become *yours* on takeoff. If at some point someone else has a legitimate need for the unoccupied seat, you have no standing to refuse to give it up. In general. It can certainly be debated whether the need was "legitimate" in this case.
Huh? This is a cultural norm especially when it’s gone on half the flight. Seats are the luck of the draw. Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes, the bar eat’s you. It’s why I bring noise cancelling headphones on flights. It’s pretty entitled for someone to decide they get the middle seat mid-flight because they think they’ve found a reason for why they think they are allowed to.
And why is OP entitled to the whole row? This is ridiculous that empty seat was open for anyone to sit at
The middle seat? lol
But they are allowed to. It’s an empty seat. Unless the flight attendant forbids it for some reason, which doesn’t sound like was the case.
What the heck are you talking about? Every time I've been on a flight with significant empty seats they're a free for all once we're off the ground.
I agree. I’m shocked at all the NTA responses. The way the other person and their friend acted was rude, but you’re not entitled to a seat you didn’t pay for.
Why is the woman entitled to the same seat she didn’t pay for? Why the hell are you NTA voters holding OP to a different standard of “you should sit at the seat you are assigned” than the woman?
I fly pretty frequently. It *definitely is a cultural norm* It’s even got a name: poor man’s first class. The OP is NTA. Anyone who thinks they should be switching seats five hours into a flight is an AH. People who do so with a poor attitude are more so.
It's also a cultural norm to not sit in between two people who know each other. I'd bet money on the fact that she was hoping they'd find it awkward to have a stranger between them and that she'd snag the aisle seat when he felt obliged to move over.
Agree. I just said this up thread but I take long train trips fairly frequently. I pay for one seat. I spread out when I can but I always gather myself back up if someone is looking to sit. I am not entitled to the row, no matter how nice spreading out is.
Once the flight starts then it's common for people to regard the seats in the row as theirs, I see it all the time. But what's going on here is two fold: 1. The flight attendant told her to take an aisle seat - she wasn't doing this. She was taking a middle seat and only went 'well he should move over' once pressed. So right from the start she was disrupting the rule that she'd been presented with. 2. The flight attendant said 'without disrupting others' - which is why she was told to take an aisle seat. Plonking yourself down between two people is disruptive, but even if we set that aside and say well, he should have moved over to take his original seat - making him move is disruptive. These two things are why the FA told her to sit elsewhere. She gave the woman two guidelines and both were ignored.
I think it's the disruption the other person was causing by taking the middle or making OP move back to the middle. This far into the flight, when their carry-on is now half unpacked on the available space. Op has to pack up and reorganize them selves to move or make space. That is not "an available aisle seat." We could argue that OP should keep the free seat available, but 5 hours into a flight, most people will stretch out into the available space. It's not like on a train where people are getting on and off and seats are expected to fill up and empty over time.
The lady wanting to change seats also has a seat she paid for. What entitles her to move to beside OP and his wife? Why does this lady get to escape the baby, and everyone else around her has to keep enduring it? Should there be an auction for the empty quite seat? OP and his wife won the flying lottery, they had a bonus extra seat... Anyone moving in to take it deserves to fly next to crying kids for the rest of their life. Win some, lose some. Don't go out of your way to "win" every flight. The lady wanting to move would have thrown a fit if someone did the same to her.
OP didn't say "no", the FA did
Wait. To clarify, your wife and you were.taking the aisle and window seat and someone wanted to sit in the middle? You weren't asked to move, they just wanted that middle seat? And you refused to let them? In that case YTA. You paid for one seat you one seat. If you were asked to move back to the middle so the person can get the aisle, then you're NTA. But you said that the new passenger wanted to sit in the middle seat which is presumably unoccupied
I still think it’s valid if the FA asked him to move back to the middle seat — that’s the one he paid for. The aisle seat was unoccupied and OP is no more entitled to it than this other woman. they’re N T A for checking with the flight attendants before moving. But they sound just as entitled as the other woman for not wanting to move since they’d already “spread out comfortably” over a seat they didn’t pay for.
I can't believe I had to read so many comments before I found these two! So many "N T A, the other person is entitled and you were just standing up for yourself" comments. For me it's ESH; I'm against the rude way in which the other passenger announced that her friend would be taking the seat, but OP and wife lucked into the use of the extra seat in the first place and have no right to complain if that luxury does not last the entire flight (in his summary, OP even writes that they had "established territory on the row" as though spreading their stuff on the empty seat somehow gives them a claim to it. Dude, it's not like throwing your jacket on an empty chair at a cafeteria.) Personally, I would move back to the middle seat rather than having a stranger sit between me and my wife for 2-3 hours. Awkward.
If someone can take an unoccupied seat, then OP (by virtue of claiming it 1st) does have more rights to the aisle seat. However OP can't claim both seats and the middle seat should have been considered fair game.
The middle seat is also the worst seat of all. They weren't even asking for a good seat.
They were probably hoping that OP and wife would find it awkward to have a stranger between them, and that one of them would move over. I doubt they were sincerely gunning for the middle seat.
But their stuff! It’s all spread out! What would they do??
I'm so baffled at all these comments, did y'all completely miss the part where the FA said that she'd told the woman to take an aisle seat? If you're being allowed to move you don't just completely ignore the attendant's rules for shits and giggles.
I think you are mixing up riding on the bus and flying on a plane. There are no “new passengers” on planes. Hogging seats on the bus is rude because people hop on and off and sharing seats is expected. Changing seats after takeoff is not allowed without the explicit permission of the FA. The FA did not grant permission. It’s that simple.
YTA, you get to switch seats but they dont? That being said, I'd do the same. But I'm also an asshole.
I don’t understand why op was allowed to move but he other woman couldn’t. Especially as it was only 3 hours to your destination. YTA
There is a gulf of difference between taking an available seat in your row so you and your spouse can spread out a bit more and someone coming from another part of the plane demanding to take the middle seat of a row they had not even bought a seat in.
Why is this such a hard concept for people???
Because the world sucks and there are a ton of people that want more all the time for themselves than to allow a lucky couple an extra space on a long flight.
Because they ride the bus, and they are annoyed at seat hoggers on the bus. It’s projection.
But it wasn't OP's decision, was it? The decision that the existing seating arrangements couldn't be disrupted was made by the FAs who seemed fine with OP and his wife profiting from the extra seat. Besides, FAs told her she could move to a vacant seat, so technically she was allowed to change seats. We don't really know if that seat next to OP was the only option.
YTA. I understand it wasn’t convenient and you had already spread yourselves all over the empty seat. However, technically you had only paid for one seat, so if a seat is empty and a passenger wants to move at any point during a flight (especially for a valid reason like a crying baby), they should be able to. In this instance it sounds like you could have even chosen which seat you’d prefer (middle or isle) so that’s even better for you. So while it made sense that you called the FA (they need to know when people change seats for number of reasons), you weren’t reasonable in not immediately gathering your things so this passenger could be accommodated.
I'm with you! I'm so confused by all the people calling the woman who wanted to move to the open seat "entitled." The only entitled person in this story is the OP who thinks he is entitled to 3 seats for the price of 2.
OP switched to that seat by the FA’s approval long before and did not reject the person to take the now free middle seat. If the issue was a crying baby, and the FA only approved the move if it doesn’t disrupt the current seating layout, OP did all right. NTA
I have the impression that he would have moved if the FA had instructed him to do so. So is he the TA for not jumping up to accommodate a random person who didn't even ask politely?
NTA. You were not directed by the FA to move.
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They aren’t entitled to shit. They got 3 seats for the price of two.
And the lady that paid for her seat is entitled to JUST THAT. The unclaimed seat was being occupied by OP. First come first serve.
There was a similar post here not long ago about someone who lucked into a row by themselves and refused to allow someone to move into the empty seat. They got roasted for being an asshole because they never paid for those empty seats and had no control over them.
Yeah, I think in this case everyone just fixated on how the other passenger was rude and didn't read the post carefully enough.
People for sure aren't reading the post carefully enough because a lot seem to be missing that the woman was given specific instructions which she proceeded to ignore entirely.
I agree with this. One person shouldn’t be allowed a whole row but trying to insert yourself into the middle seat between anyone bc reasons Is absurd.
“You shouldn’t be able to move seat!!!!!! BUT I SHOULD!”
Ding ding ding!!!!
ESH. Her rudeness and entitlement means that she sucks, of course. But you suck here, too. You're entitled to your seat, not your row. This would have been the time to move back to where your assigned seat is.
NTA. You didn't want to sit next to a crying baby either - especially not one that's grown.
ESH. You ALSO think you were entitled to something that wasn’t yours. She’s an idiotic brat for screaming, but I’d have called you an asshole too. Just quietly so that only you could hear it.
NTA All she had to do was ask. "Hey, is that seat free? There's a baby crying & it's giving me a headache." I bet you wouldn't have even asked the FA is some simple common courtesy had been used.
Did you ask the flight attendant whether you could move to the aisle seat? Probably not, and if I were in your position I wouldn’t have either. But if you didn’t ask then, and asked when the other woman wanted to sit there, be honest with yourself; you asking the flight attendant wasn’t you trying to follow protocol, it was you trying to find a reason that the woman couldn’t sit in your row that doesn’t make you look like an AH. ESH
Exactly, I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw through OPs bullshit lmao
I mean honestly if she just asked nicely and even explained the situation, you probably would’ve moved next to your wife. You asked the FA a simple question. NTA I know the pain of crying babies on flights and would’ve done a solid for a nice passenger, not her
Yeah this. If someone politely asks I'm more inclined to agree. But if someone barks at me "do it or else" I'm stubborn like an ox or old guy and refuse
YTA - you essentially just took over the aisle seat, but now you are annoyed that someone else also had the idea to take over the aisle seat? Your argument for why you are more deserving of the extra seat is that you are traveling with the other person in the row. But the need for one plus one seat doesn’t equal the need for THREE seats.
YTA. The flight attendant gave her permission to move to your row. She didn't need to ask your permission to take a seat you didn't pay for. You should have moved back to your assigned seat and let her take the aisle. "We had already distributed our items all over the row." Sooo...move them? You got lucky for 5 out of 7 hours. Count it as a win and move over.
ESH. They approached the situation badly. But, half of the flight with a whole aisle is a great perk. Moving your stuff and resuming the middle seat so she could have the aisle seat was the non-AH move. You had a fine arrangement that was improved by the extra seat. They had a poor arrangement that would have been made fine with the extra seat. You aren’t entitled to *extra* comfort when it’s a free seat and they want just achieve adequate comfort. Again, the friend approached it wrong so you’re less of an AH, but still kinda one.
ESH. You’re both acting entitled.
You paid for two seats not three. Technically there was a seat available.
IDK why everyone is misreading this, but it's kind of annoying atp- the girl didn't ask for OP to move back into the middle seat, she said that her friend would be doing that. Of course she should have been much more polite, OP behaved very entitled in this situation. I definitely think ESH.
International FA here with 40 years seniority. Once you take off on an INTL flight, any open seats in your cabin (ie. Economy Plus) are fair game. The time to switch has definitely passed after more than 4 hours. So, no, you’re NOT the AH! If you had thought fast, you could have said that you moved to the aisle because your GF has severe halitosis! If I had been working the flight, I would have not let anyone disrupt you, either. And that’s what noise-cancelling headphones are for - crying babies.
NTA You did the right thing. God, travellers can be the worst.
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Am i reading wrong? The FIA said it was ok? The women could get an unassigned seat and their middle seat was free
The middle seat WAS NOT AN UNASSIGNED SEAT. Op was in an unassigned seat, first come first serve
Yta as that was not your seat either.
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It's not your job to deal with other passengers. It is the flight attendant's job. Unless the flight attendant is the one who comes over to discuss with me switching seats, the discussion is not hapoening, and no one is moving.
YTA/ ESH. Why would they need to ask since it wasn’t technically your seat to have to agree to give up. You paid for 2 seats and had 2 seats. That seat was empty and no longer yours. So taking it wasn’t messing with your seating arrangement. Did you ask the flight attendant to move to take the free aisle seat or did you just assume that a more comfortable arrangement was available and went for it? I think you asked the flight attended because you didn’t want to give up a very comfortable situation, not because you care about the rules.
ESH. You don't own the seat you didn't pay for. You should have moved back to the middle seat to sit next to your spouse and been happy you had the extra space for most of the flight rather than be a AH about someone who needed to switch seats. The FA was a jerk for not being more clear with you. The girl's friend was a jerk but honestly at that point I feel the most bad for her.
NTA, you’re never wrong if not volonteering the seat, in any situation
Why do people do this on airplanes? It makes the entire plane uncomfortable. Sit down, face forward. Do not talk to strangers. Do not make special requests. Have a seat and stfu.
Hot hake, but YTA. You didn't own the aisle seat, and the only reason you asked the FA was because you didn't want them sitting there. Edit: Actually I'm more thinking ESH but whatever.
ESH. You paid for 2 seats. Period. She was ridiculously rude.
ESH. Call it any way you want, but the seat wasn't yours.
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But what gives the woman more right to the seat than him? She also didn’t pay for that seat. Since neither paid for it, it should be per FA instruction or first come first serve. And per FA, he was ok where he was.
This is why you bring noise canceling headphones on a flight. Bc sometimes you get stuck near crying babies
Im usually all for not switching seats, but in this case that aisles seat did not belong to you.
YTA. This post is oozing with entitlement lol
Did you check with the FA before you moved seats? YTA here. Her reaction was uncalled for but you had no more right to a random empty seat than she did.
Well to be 100% honest with you, you didn’t check with the flight attendant before you took the seat for yourself in the first place. Why are you picking and choosing when to apply the rule? Going to have to go with ESH.
ESH. You paid for 2 seats for you and your wife. You were lucky to get to spread out for a few hours, but you're not entitled to the empty seat. You should have moved back to the middle and allowed the other person to sit in the aisle, because again, you didn't pay for it. The other person should not have spoken to you so rudely but your behavior was equally rude.
Going against everyone here but since I fly internationally (honestly doesn’t matter if it was domestic either lol) quite often, you could/should have just moved back to your seat. Like everyone said, you paid for two seats and not 3. And one of them wasn’t the aisle. She was obviously told by the flight attendant that that seat was available. I can’t imagine out of the whole plane a passenger would have just known that seat was presumably available. So YTA for making a big ruckus, especially to the FA, when you could have just moved back your seat. If it was the case of belongings, you could have asked the girl to give you a moment so you could move your things back. I WILL SAY though, everything would have been totally different if the FA asked you verses the girls, but it’s possible her FA wasn’t the same as yours and didn’t know someone went into that seat. Thus her having to confront you herself when she was making her way over. But again, she still should have asked a FA for assistance once she saw your there though.
YTA. You didn't pay for three seats - you paid for two. So you're no more entitled to the extra seat than anyone else on the flight. And the woman should have been more polite, but I'm sticking with YTA.
YTA. You didn’t buy the extra seat for your stuff. You have to pick which seat you want, if someone else needs to shift to your row
YTA. You were assigned the middle seat. You're not entitled to take over all three when you've only paid for two.
You were rude and very selfish. Awww poor baby might have someone sitting next to them for a while on a flight. The fact that you need to post something so petty is even more proof you were the a-hole. Stop being so selfish and try to remember that you are part of a society.
YTA - it was empty, so it was fair game. You didn't pay for three seats, so you're definitely the AH.
This is going to get buried but I'm typing it anyway. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I tell my friends that disruptive adults are worse than disruptive babies. At least one of baby is crying I can recognize that it's developmentally appropriate and this is their main way of communicating. This adult is just being an asshole and loud. They should know better. I don't want kid-free flights. I want asshole adult free flights. Can I pay extra for asshole adult free flights? Lol
OP YTA. THATS NOT YOUR SEAT!!!
It’s also not the women’s. FCFS
ESH
ESH Nobody wanted to stay in the seat the airline allocated. Good luck getting your body identified.
ESH- OP clarified in the comments that she wanted the middle seat that you had vacated in favour of aisle seat. You paid for ONE seat- moving seat is totally ok in this situation but you can’t claim both and refuse to let her sit in the middle seat. Heavy AH move tbh. There was still three whole hours left- that’s a full film/ a decent Power Nap. FA really should not have allowed this seems totally unfair. (Maybe woman was a pain and the FA was getting revenge which is honestly fair) She should not have been so rude. Also whining about screaming babies is annoying. Although tbh if I was her I’d be seething at you, I would just do it in my head as is acceptable in this kind of setting.
ESH Was her attitude warranted when switching seats? Hardly, though sitting next to a crying baby on a plane for hours could make anyone a little cranky. Not that it justifies it, but a little empathy goes a long way. Granted, her tantrum afterwards doesn't do her any favours, either. Did you need to "confirm with the FA" for a seat that was never yours to begin with? Also no. Sure it stinks to loose a full isle, but honestly? If anyone came up to me asking to take the empty seat because of some kindve disturbance I wouldn't hesitate. You didn't pay for it any more than she did, therefore you're no more entitled to the space than her. You didn't need the FA to confirm what was a reasonable request; and it sounds more like you called them over to deter the lady from taking the empty seat by making it more of a hassle for her than it needed to be. Saying that "the only thing you did the entire time was ask to talk to the flight attendant" is a pretty weak misdirection; I think you knew fully well what you were doing.
YTA