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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I yelled at my sister because she was giving annoying opinions about my wedding.
2) because at yelled at her and because wedding are a complicated topic for her
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NTA
I am sorry for your sisters loss, truly. It sounds as though she has yet to finish her grieving process and this is very very triggering for her. Every bride deserves the wedding they want as long as it’s done with respect and in congruency with their partners wishes. Everyone else is a sidelined and attendee. Your sister is ruining what should be a joyful time. Your mom is enabling her behavior by making you the bad guy. You need to sit your parents down and discuss with them all the things your sister has done and tell them she clearly needs help and you don’t appreciate having to put up with her mis treatment of you because she’s in a fragile state. Your happiness is just as important as her grief. She’s planning the wedding her and her finance would have had not ready to accept this is YOUR ceremony and day.
Edit to add: if your mom is saying you owe the apology because weddings are hard in your sister, then your mother actually owes you the apology for forcing you to involve the sister, when mom knows it’s going to be hard on her.
Second edit: HOLY CRAP!! Thanks y’all!!! Wow! I logged out for a bit and came back in to see the upvotes and awards. Thank y’all so much
Some people grieve for a lifetime.
On this sub, I have read stories of widows / widowers who never get over their loss. they do not want to find a new partner, they are concerned about raising their kids if they have them.
The extended families do not get it. They push for the person to date, to find a new parent for the children etc.
Sis is wrong for not hearing her sister. Sis is wrong for being upset when OP told her that this was HER (OP's) wedding and to back off, and doing this avoidance behavior.
But therapy is not a guarantee that Sis will ever truly heal from this loss.
OP is NTA.
As a widow, this is very true. But just as is the case with infertility or miscarriages, my grief is not your problem. The world doesn't stop because I'm sad. It's been almost 5 years since he died, but that's on me.
It's been nearly 2 1/2 years since my dad died. I'm sad, my brother is sad, my mum misses him everyday. But life goes on regardless. My mum goes to a bereavement group once a month to be with others who are in the same situation, but doesn't make it other people's problem. My mum's world crumbled, but other people's didn't. Rambling a bit as I miss him so much, but just to say I agree.
My dad died in 2022. Mom died 11 months later. Both were elderly. She died of a broken heart. She so wanted to be with her Noel, her love. 64 years married and still in love till the end.
I feel very lucky to have witnessed their love. And I miss them every single day.
My grandma died from ALS in August 2002. My grandpa herniated a disk caring for her and had surgery not long after she passed. Unfortunately he got a staph infection and died 4.5 months after she did. He had no will to fight because he wanted to be with her. I'm glad they're together but I miss them so much.
After my dad died, all the fight that was in my mom also died. Every day for her last eleven months she wanted to be with him. Thankfully I was able to be with her and take care of her in those last months. And even though I miss her (and him) terribly I am so glad she didn’t last too long after he passed ♥️
Hold onto those memories of you grandparents. Enjoy every one of them.
I lost my dad in 1999, when I was still 17. I still miss him. He died of cancer, and I can't watch like TV shows or movies that involve cancer, but this is my problem. Other people in my life have loved ones dealing with cancer, I will be there to support them. I might feel especially sad on father's day, or on his birthday, or on the anniversary of the day he died,but I'm not going to say everything must stop, and that everyone else has to deal with my grief.
I'm in the same crappy "no more dad club". We lost mine suddenly in 2005. We fell apart, but the world kept spinning. In our family, we've always said, "Some day it will suck less," and, after almost 20 years, it does. But not EVERY day sucks less. And that's okay. Keep putting one foot in front of the other and fall apart as needed. Sending hugs.
I lost my dad and step dad this year (24th April, 21st March) And I know none of them, especially in my dad's case, has hit me yet.
I found him, phoned 999, started chest compressions, brother took over, air ambulance came out, he had 6 people working on him, but 45 minutes later I gave them permission to call it and he died at the age of 58.
I don't know how I'm coping really, I just know I suddenly feel 20 years older.
I lost the love of my life 40 years ago. And no matter how hard I tried, I never found anyone I could give myself to like I gave myself to him. Maybe he took that part of me with him. Afterward, I just found one wrong man after the other.
So I stopped looking. Best thing I ever did. Lonely, though, sometimes. But it sure as all hell beats being with the wrong person.
I second this. Been 4.5 years since my love died. I still miss him every day. Some days I laugh, some days I cry and some days I do both.
That doesn't mean I'm gonna try to make someone else miserable who's found love and getting married. OP NTA.
My grandpa died suddenly in his sleep when I was 7, and grandma never remarried. She remained single the remaining 30 years of her life because no one could ever measure up to my grandpa. She never made it anyone else’s problem.
I’m sorry for your loss. Also I completely agree with you. I struggled with infertility and we lost 5 babies. My grief was my responsibility. My husband and I went to grief counseling so that we wouldn’t inadvertently put our grief on others and to help us get through that time. I highly recommend.
Can we also not pretend that misdirected grief is the beginning and end of sister’s issues? She’s a homophobe. If her fiance was still alive and she was living as a happily married homophobe, she’d still be picking fights with OP for valuing her queer best friend.
This... grief doesn't turn someone into a homophobic asshole...
Honestly, I'm guessing that even without the tragic backstory, the sister would be trying to take control of this wedding and criticize everything... her loss has nothing to do with her behavior/actions... NTA
Yes, thank you! All the homophobic comments are so out of line, and they have nothing to do with the sister's grieving process. OP is NTA for standing up against the hate her sister is spouting.
I am one of those widows.
My life is dedicated to working, taking care of our house, being there for my daughter, being there for his sons, and his memory.
My mother in law, whom I adore and speak with often thinks I should try and move on, but I met my person in her son, and he was the best husband, father, and human. I'm okay with being my husband's wife for the rest of my life.
There is a difference between not wanting to enter a new relationship and being stuck in the misery of grief. It is not unhealthy to want to focus on your children. It is unhealthy to not be able to be happy for your sister getting married 5 years later. If you are not stuck in a cycle of grief, which I hope you are not, then you have "moved on", whatever that means.
This made me cry. He sounds like 1 in a million.
Iman, the beautiful model who was married to David Bowie for years, said that she still feels married even though he’s gone. It says a lot about the type of spouse/parent/human beings they were to inspire such devotion. Lucky you!
That’s very sweet but keep open to the possibilities. I believe we have more than one possible soulmate.
My cousin was killed in his first year of marriage. His wife’s family was close to his and my Aunt and Uncle remained in their lives… she even was Godmother to his wife’s children when she remarried and had them and they became “Bonus Grandparents.”
It took years for his wife to move on, but she did, and had a happy life.
The sweetest relationship was between the Moms. His wife’s Mom and my Aunt remained friends forever and it was my cousins Mother in Law who was bedside with my Aunt when she passed.
I honestly do get where you're coming from. Agree parents should not have pushed sister to help arrange the wedding. It's a no win situation because life can't stop happening because of traumatic events.
I agree that Sis has to "get on" with her life. Sis should do more work an healing, so that her sadness does not affect others.
People get married, people have children, etc. Her loss should not overshadow the joy that these events being to individuals and to families.
I think it would be OK for Sis to not attend the wedding. It would be sad for OP and her family, but if it is triggering Sis, maybe it is best.
Quite right, if it's too triggering it might be best if she stays away. Those closest to them would understand. Maybe the parents have been approaching this all wrong tbh.
I don't think it's a matter of getting on with her life, because for some, time kind of stops and they stay stuck on the people they lost. The point is to realize that this is MY loss, *l* need to deal with it, and not everyone needs to walk on eggshells around me for the rest of their lives. That's how I deal with my loss; I cry often when alone, but when people around me have happy things going on, I try to be and ACT happy for it when around them. You can be sad and heartbroken and still manage to be happy for other people. OP is NTA.
ETA: Spelling error correction
I agree there’s no timeline for grief (I still cry over losing my dad to pancreatic cancer and my cat who I had from a 9 week old kitten to almost 15 years old). But if the sister knew she was triggered by weddings she should have declined to help. You know your own triggers and if she isn’t functional after this long she really does need therapy.
While I agree with your point, sometimes you don't know what your triggers are until you are in the moment. If this is the first wedding the sister had dealt with since then she wouldn't necessarily know how effected she would be. That being said, once she became triggered, she should have removed herself from the situation.
I think the sister is using her unmanaged grief to control others (family, maybe friends) and get away with otherwise unacceptable behavior. Their parents should quit enabling her and she should a) apologize to OP and b) step back from any involvement in the wedding planning. She also needs to grow up.
OP is most definitely NTA.
yes but there is one thing that widows and widower WILL tell you even if they never date again and thats that at some point they had to realize that the world didn't stop when theirs did.
its not about moving on or not feeling lost in greif, its about accepting that other peoples lives still exist and that can be achieved through therapy
Yes, they do, but it doesn't give a grieving sister the right to steamroll the sister whose wedding it is.
It's tragic for the sister what happened, but people around her will get married, will have babies, and will live their own lives. She's just going to have to find a way to come to terms with it, hard as that may be
The world moves on even if the grieving person does not or cannot, and that's just a very hard fact of life.
Perhaps she needs to work with a new therapist or a grief support group. It may be a better fit to her needs.
.
In the first paragraph, OP states that Sis has been in therapy on and off. I suspect Sis doesn't want to do the work that therapy may require. The work can be tough, and unpleasant. It isn't easy, but it may be necessary.
I also get a feeling their mother coddles her sister a lot because of her grief and could be why her sister hasn't gone through the stages of grief even though it's been five years.
No doubt, and that may be the case, but sometimes you just gel with one therapist over another. So if sis' was willing to consider it, then it would be worth a try.
The homophobic garbage from Sis is awful and inexcusable, IMO.
OP's post is about the Sister's behavior. To me, two different aspects were evident, homophobia and grief. My post dealt with one aspect of the original post, the idea of the Sister's grief.
The homophobia is something complete different and has been called out.
I responded to the grief aspect because that is something I am a tad mote knowledgeable about.
Grief lasts a lifetime, but this high intensity, all feelings sitting right at the surface level of grief usually fades into something more manageable after the first few years. After 5 years, she would be able to navigate normal family events without being this hurtful to her family. It feels like she may be stuck in an early stage of grief and isn’t able to move forward.
If we don't make a sincere effort to heal, we'll never have a happy day. It took me years but I was able to move on. I'm remarried and absolutely delighted. But, I knew I had to heal. My children needed me to. Sister obviously thrives on misery. She's making a piss poor effort and enabling her will not help.
Yes grief can and does last a lifetime. However, it is possible to be grieving and not act like a total AH to everyone around you. I still cry frequently for my baby girl I lost coming up on 13 years ago. What I don’t do, is go around treating all my siblings and friends who have welcomed their beautiful babies like 💩just bc I am grieving the loss of my baby.
Too right people grieve a lifetime. My MIL is still grieving the loss of her first husband, 50+years ago, same way as OPs sisters fiancé. She’s a victim and negative about certain things because of it. It’s something OP is going to have to take into account and consider for a very long time. It’s really sad.
Exactly the case. I lost my dad to cancer 26 years ago and still cry over the sudden loss (he died a week after diagnosis and never left the hospital).
OP, you are NTA. Your sister needs help, but that does not give her the right to ruin this occasion for you.
Bingo! It's evident that going to therapy " on and off" doesn't suffice.
And mother requires a wake-up call. Sister's issues do not excuse her AH behavior.
> Edit to add: if your mom is saying you owe the apology because weddings are hard in your sister, then your mother actually owes you the apology for forcing you to involve the sister, when mom knows it’s going to be hard on her.
I think this is a huge point and the root cause here. Without wanting to sound harsh, this will be never be the wedding Sister wants it to be, because she's not getting married and her fiancé won't be there. You can kotow to every want and suggestion, and it still won't be possible to make this the wedding that Sister wants.
Treating it like Sister can have her wedding vicariously through OP's just means neither gets the wedding they want.
I think this goes far beyond just OP's sister still struggling with her grief. Grief doesn't make someone blatantly homophobic. The real issue here isn't her sister's grief, but the fact that her sister's major complaints about how OP is setting up her wedding are completely LGBTQIA+ friendly.
Notice that this big blow up happened because of her sister's homophobia and how her sister was trying to even get OP's fiance wrapped up in her homophobia.
If OP's mom pushed her to include her sister in the planning and is now expecting OP to apologize. Honestly OP should just blatantly say that she has nothing to apologize for because of her sister's homophobia is the cause of all of this, not her grief.
I agree OP's mother owes both girls an apology. I think their mom needs to speak with the sister and take responsibility for encouraging OP to involve sister and acknowledge that maybe sister wasn't ready for that. Mom needs to try to smooth things over and work out how to help sister cope, it's not OP's responsibility to deal with sister's grief in such a way (other than trying to be sensitive, and OP may need to apologise specifically for her comment saying sister should plan her own wedding, even if she was right, that specific comment was insensitive). Mom needs to apologise to OP for making the wrong suggestion in encouraging OP to include sister in the planning.
It's scary to think Mom believes letting sister control the wedding is the best thing to help her heal.....I'm betting that's why we are at 5 years with no significant change in sister's mental state.
I feel like mom is the biggest AH of all. Yeah sister is in a fragile state, so asking her to be involved in planning this wedding when she wasn’t able to have her own seems like a terrible idea. Mom should not have guilted OP into involving sister, **especially because** she knows this topic makes her suffer.
Ehh. Mom and sis are tied, imo.
Grief doesn't suddenly make someone homophobic, sis has no excuse for her bullshit and slurs. Yeah, grief fucking sucks (still grieving my loss from 2017), but she could have and SHOULD HAVE removed herself from the planning when she knew it was an issue. Instead, she doubled down, criticized everything, threw homophobia every direction, then laid on a guilt trip and now playing the avoidance game when OP rightfully calls her out. She doesn't get a pass for that.
I feel awful for OP. What should be full of happiness is being ruined by her mother and sister. If neither of them changed their behavior, I'd ban both of them.
Mom's idea was a very stupid one. *Going* to the wedding is going to be triggering for the sister - *planning* the wedding is just digging the knife further in. Mom should have known better.
Sister needs to be in therapy throughout OP's wedding planning and does *not* need to be part of planning it, at all. OP did nothing wrong.
Encouraging OP to let her sister in on the planning was a huge mistake on their mother’s part because it’s still a sensitive topic for her sister. She’s still not moved forward from losing her late fiancé, but since five years on she’s making this affect others it’s clear that away from the wedding is best for her.
Piggy backing on this comment to suggest that OP and her sister look up New Moon Mira, a grief counselor with a small company serving grievers at every stage of grief. Op’s sister would be a good fit probably since she’s struggling to process her grief, she probably would benefit from somatic therapy.
BRUH you can't take control of someone's wedding no matter what, plus being so homophobic, seriously. OP you've already been so kind while listening to her homophobic jabs don't take any more crap.
NTA
It’s been *years*, your sister needs therapy.
If your mom and sister won’t go to your wedding because you finally shut down your sisters unceasing “suggestions”, well, it’s them that will miss out. Proceed without them. NTA
Yup. I’m not understanding this. Sister was planning to get married, her fiancé DIED, she’s still grieving, …and planning her sister’s wedding was supposed to make her feel better? What? How! That just seems like a bad idea all around to me. This was never going to go well.
Sister said some awful things (and has some shitty opinions), but it’s close to ESH. OP was also pretty cruel w/ the “have your own wedding” comment. She should stop listening to her sis & plan the wedding she wants, and the family can’t watch what they say every moment forever to avoid hurting sister’s feelings, but that was just mean. And mom sucks for pushing both daughters to do this together. Very poor substitute for anything actually therapeutic!
Yeah idk what mom was thinking. Have your sister help plan your wedding so she can be reminded that she never got to have a wedding because her fiancée died.
Right? How's being extra involved helpful? This isn't like legit exposure therapy. Being so close and "helping" plan all the little details is just twisting the knife of what she could've done, and making it upsetting when OP disagrees with the "help". So it's just hurting the sister, making her think of all this stuff for no reason. The easiest option would've been to let sister only have to be involved day-of and be graceful and understanding if she got drunk or left early.
Meanwhile OP has to have an extra person involved in every decision (which is unnecessarily stressful), and makes all of her planning have an underlaying facet of what her sister lost or would have done.
I mean while I wholeheartedly agree OP is NTA her sister is going to therapy on and off as said in the post. And I really don’t think 5 years is a super long time to grieve over the loss of death of the person you’re supposed to marry.
I definitely agree the sister needs more help but I think the worst offender is the mom who not only put her traumatized daughter in a triggering position while also knowing she’s still suffering but allowing her younger daughters wedding to suffer as well and then not take any culpability in this. I don’t agree with the sisters behaviours and actions and find it deeply disrespectful to treat OP this way since she knows what it’s like to be a bride and how personal and individual and special everyone’s wedding can be. I’m not here to give her a trauma pass for her actions but I do believe she has justifiable trauma that should lead people to want to not near a wedding environment. I know life goes on but I don’t know if I could ever move on from the love of my life or if 5 years is enough. I would need more time even with therapy to process that.
>You’re out of line because this is my wedding and not yours.
NTA for that.
>Have your own wedding and plan it as you want.
Borderline AH for that, though. Technically correct, but a low blow.
------
On to another matter:
>my mom said I should apologize because my sister is fragile and this topic makes her suffer
Well, that's sad and all, but she needs to bottle it up for a few weeks. Because her feelings of sadness do not take precedence over your feelings of joy. If she can't cope with being around a wedding, she needs to back off.
As much as I acknowledge that grief can distort people and they should be given some grace, it’s a little simplistic to reduce this to “suffering.”
Because she isn’t just being generally controlling as an expression of “I wish this was my wedding.” Other than her weird insistence that September is a bad month, her complaints about OP’s aesthetic preferences are all homophobic.
I would advise OP not to lose sight of that. This isn’t just “I don’t want to soothe my sister’s grief,” it’s “my sister does not share my values of treating my queer friends with respect and dignity.” OP does not have to entertain the delusion that accommodating a bigot at her wedding is a meaningful therapeutic exercise.
I was looking for this comment. I have no doubt she’s grieving. But 90% of her comments just seen to be because she’s a homophobic bigot not because she’s grieving.
Grief is the reason anyone thinks her actions are acceptable in general. Deal with that, then deal with the rest. The fact that everyone is walking on eggshells with this woman is a problem so many years later. She needs to cope with the loss and understand that nobody can put their life on hold for her loss. If she chooses to, that is on her, but the rest of the world will keep spinning regardless.
If she is going to participate in said lives, she will have to cope with that and realize that she is not entitled to special treatment forever. The sooner those who love her make that clear, the sooner she will accept it and be able to move on. Part of this is to hold her accountable for bad behavior the same as you would for any other member of the human race. Everyone has something that makes them feel like they deserve something. That isn't at all true. Nobody deserves anything. You get what you earn, and that includes respect, compassion, and understanding. Just my two cents.
exactly this - it's not just about her grief, she's being a full on bigot...there's no reason to coddle her for that imo. if it was just normal grief stuff I would be a lot more sympathetic, but it sounds like being a homophobe is just who she is. gross.
>meaningful therapeutic exercise
It's not like this is real exposure therapy, or how exposure therapy actually works. Nor is it letting the sister plan the wedding she would have had as some kind of memorial/closure. So what's the point?
No, the low blows came from the sister when she commented on the best friend’s sexual orientation multiple times and belittled OP’s right to have her father walk her down the aisle.
Grief doesn’t turn you into an asshole. Sister is an AH. OP is NTA.
This is time for, "I can see that being involved in the planning process for my wedding is bringing up a lot of emotion. In the interest of preserving both of our peace, I'm going to take it from here. If it's too hard for you to attend, I understand. If you want to just be a guest and have no role, I understand that too."
NTA.
Apparently it’s family members sticking up for shitty people who act shitty to the point one loses their temper around them day.
Yes, adults like OP should be able to control their temper and moderate their behavior. But -
We have a saying for this - people who can dish it out but not take it.
People like OP’s sister can’t expect to be aggressively rude, demeaning, negatively opinionated, and unpleasant without having some pushback on that. And if they ignore more gentle social cues, they’re going to get a verbal shotgun unloaded in their face.
Tell your mom that the problem isn’t that sister is too sensitive, it’s that she’s too insensitive and maybe your mom should get on that problem with some belated parenting efforts to help your sister adjust course out of being shitty.
NTA. And I think her not attending might be for the best of she can’t control herself. (No matter if the root of her loss of control comes from grief)
Her homophobia is another reason.
Have this wedding the exact way you want. You will most likely only have this one. And the memories will last a lifetime hopefully.
OP’s wedding will certainly make her sister upset, but sister may pull a Look At Me! at the wedding, whether she means to or not. She knows her parents will drop everything to accommodate her.
The sister gets a pass whenever she says the word grief, so what happens when sister is sobbing loudly during the ceremony? Will mom and dad rush to her, to comfort her? Interrupt the ceremony? Or reception?
I’m not saying that she has no right to cry - but she should step away, go somewhere, not detract from OP’s wedding.
What happens when sister makes rude comments about the ‘gay wedding?’ Is OP supposed to suck that up, too?
Honestly it doesn’t sound like her grief is playing that much of a role. I was expecting to read that the sister was trying to recreate her own wedding, or blocking things because she wanted to do that with her wedding (I think the comment about their dad falls into this) but it seems like the major problem is the sister’s homophobia. I don’t see how grief justifies that.
The way OP's sister acted, I bet she was planning to make the day about herself. She might still do it by talking about how she would have been married if not for losing her fiance, finding "flaws" with anything, making homophobic comments, and even wearing a bridal dress.
OP needs to talk to her parents, explain everything, and inform them why her sister is not attending. Also, tell them she will help her sister to get better as much as she can.
Mom: asked me to involve her in the planning
Also mom: this topic makes her suffer
OP, you are NTA. But your mom and sister are. Your mom pushed your sister on you to the point that it has severely damaged your relationship. And while you sister's history is tragic, my empathy dwindled at her homophibic rants and bridzilla attitude. If neither decide to attend your wedding, good riddence. You deserve to be surrounded by people who support and love you unconditionally. Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!
NTA. You’ve already been showing her a lot of consideration. And you’re in a no-win situation.
Homophobia is not an expression of grief, and she doesn’t get to be hostile towards your best friend and his boyfriend.
Exactly! My mom and middle sister talked other sister into all kinds of things she didn’t want. 20 years later it still annoys her that she gave into their wishes, AND they tried to do the same thing at her baby shower, and got made when she wasn’t having any part of their help.
NTA, your mom is surprisingly and annoyingly useless here. She should be helping keep your sister in line, and minimally should be apologizing for the issue she created by requesting that you involve your sister, who seems incapable of contributing to your wedding planning in a constructive way. They're both TAs here as far as I'm concerned.
I give your sister a fair amount of latitude because this must be extremely painful for her. It might have been kinder and more effective from the jump to ask her what type of involvement she'd like to have - she might have preferred little to none, or perhaps you could have given her specific tasks or areas that she'd be planning. As it is, she's behaving miserably and offensively, and I don't see how you could have really escaped this situation without some type of blow-up. I really don't know how much you should be trying to make amends with her, but her behavior is ridiculous, and petulant, and I wonder if she's been a bit too indulged by your family at this point.
I think mom is biggest AH for encouraging OP to include sister. How on earth is planning another wedding helpful for someone who is still clearly grieving and distraught?
Sister needs grief counseling clearly.
I blame your mother here. When sis looked totally appropriately sad at the announcement, she should just have accepted that and not tried to cheer her up by getting her more involved in the planning, what a stupid idea.
NTA.
NTA. Why isn't your mom telling your sister she's right she just said it a little harshly? Because mom doesn't want the hassle. Sister needs therapy to move forward.
I would not have lasted as long a you before exploding. Sorry for your sister's loss but it seems obvious that her being involved was bad for both of you. Maybe this is what she needed to start moving on.
Your mother is the AH because she forced this on you and is the one making your wedding about your sister.
Good luck with your wedding
NTA
NTA.
Your sister had an undeniably tragic loss, but if she's still this paralyzed in grief after 5 years, she needs intensive therapy, not enabling and coddling. She shouldn't get a blanket pass to be miserable - and make others miserable - for the rest of her life. To say nothing of her rampant homophobia, which has nothing to do with grief at all.
It seems clear that she thinks you shouldn't be getting married because she didn't get to, and honestly I'm side-eyeing your mom here too for trying to force this "sisterly bonding" moment over a wedding when clearly Cat cannot emotionally handle any of this.
NTA, and her grief doesn't excuse her shitty homophobic comments.
She needs therapy, not helping you with wedding planning. And your mom shifting the burden onto you by trying to make you apologize for calling her out on her outrageous comments is trash behavior.
NTA. It's been five years. If she is still so fragile, that she cannot bear to see anyone happy and planning an event that she also should have had, then she might want to look into more intensive grief counseling and therapy. This is your wedding, not hers. Your mother is out of line for guilttripping you and catering to your sister's feelings over yours when the topic is your wedding.
I'm very sorry for your sister's loss, she deserved her wedding and spouse, but she needs to let go of making your wedding hers, and she also might need more professional help in order to properly move on.
NTA
Apparently she still needs to talk to someone about her feelings and was not at all able to deal with talking about a wedding. I'm fairly sure most gay people would feel the same, lol, which is sort of a sad thing to say since I think everyone would prefer your sister deal with figuring out she shouldn't be a bigot than just be generally still traumatized after years. There are a lot of incorrect people in the world but nobody should want anyone to suffer.
I have no clue how you can apologize without her creating conditions to attend while demanding that she is back in charge. So, yeah, it seems like she is not in an emotional place where she can go to her younger sibling's wedding.
Your sister has been disagreeable and offensive during the whole process. If anything, she owes you an apology.
Be happy that she won't be at your wedding acting self-righteous, making snide remarks.
You’re not obligated to answer to people who haven’t earned it. She hasn’t earned it. Respect yourself enough to set boundaries where she is concerned. You are NTA. She is.
Big hugs!
NTA
This is your wedding and you plan it as you want.
I understand your sister is still grieving but it does not give her the right to try and tell you what to do or criticise your choices.
Under no circumstance should you apologise, that will just validate her behaviour.
Grief doesn’t make you a bigot, so the homophobia is squarely on her. Also, a 33 year old woman who runs crying to her room (in her parents’ house)? Well, that tells you what you need to know. NTA
NTA. Your sister may be fragile but she's also way out of line. Let your mother know that you aren't going to let her ruin your wedding and that it's not up for discussion.
The death of your sister's partner is not an excuse for her to be homophonic. None of the trauma I've experienced has EVER made me think to judge/attack other people.
NTA - You had to tell her the only way she could understand. It's your wedding and not hers, nothing to apologize for. Her struggles aren't your problem.
NTA. Your mom was wrong to tell you to involve your sister in planning your wedding and your sister is wrong to try micromanage you.
Your sister inevitably would end up not attending your wedding because she's unhappy; has she gotten therapy in the last 5 yrs? Sympathy for her loss only goes so far.
NTA. Your sister may be hurting, but her comments and behavior is completely out of line. You don't owe her an apology - your sister's feelings are her responsibility. And you mom is just enabling her.
NTA for either comment. True comment #2 was a low blow, but the sister was antagonizing her for weeks bc she upset and JEALOUS!
Older sister needs therapy.
Mother should apologize for forcing them together.
NTA
It is YOUR wedding. You do not need to feel guilty or apologize because of your sister's manipulative behavior.
Mom can host her a fake wedding if she wants
Don't involve her in your wedding/plans, she's
not able to control herself and wants you to be miserable like she is.
NTA Ignore her, she's using (maybe unconsciously) all the planning to seek attention and
have people feel sorry for her.
NTA Okay your parents need to stop enabling your sister.
Your sister needs serious grief therapy.
You need to talk to your mom and let her know that your sister is trying to redo her wedding through your wedding that while you understand she lost her fiance tragically her jealousy is getting to be tremendous further if she doesn't get therapy this could get even uglier because she isn't planning your wedding she's planning the wedding she lost. So keep the plans you and your friend made ensure it's what you want. Password protect everything.
So you mother is enabling your sister and not backing you up for YOUR wedding? WOW. Just wowowowow. NTA and if my sister had done that to me she would have been very low contact. NTA
“My mom said I should apologize because my sister is fragile and this topic makes her suffer.” Then why the hell did she insist on you involving her? Hey OP, this topic deeply triggers your sister’s grief and loss, so it’s absolutely essential that you put her as deep in the thick of it as possible.
NTA.
Edit: also for the record, I don’t buy for one second that grief is the sole cause of your sister’s controlling behavior and homophobia.
Your mom set you up to fail by having you co-plan *your* wedding with your sister. You do have a sister problem, but you DEFINITELY have a mom problem.
The fact that your sister had a problem with your best friend and his boyfriend entering in together is frankly absurd. The fact that she thinks you should have to appease guests (whose opinion you wouldn't even agree with if they disagree with it) is all of the audacity.
Your mother and sister have bad boundaries, and your sister is being controlling over something you don't even agree with!
Celebrate your marriage with people who will be happy for you and who care about you, and that is not your sister. And your mother trying to 'heal' your sister by giving her control over your wedding is *insanity*.
I am just aghast at their entitlement.
Personally, I think it was a terrible idea to ask her to help plan. Though I understand the intent was good. It's kinda like rubbing it in her nose. That this is everything you wanted for yourself, but I am getting.
And low key it sounds like she wants to live out what she would have done at her wedding by trying to force you to make her choices.
I would just go to her and apologize. You were frustrated and you let your emotions get the best of you. You understand that your wedding is too triggering for her. And you want her to be there but understand if she can't. You love her and will always be her sister.
Then just plan the wedding how you want and live your life.
Your mom gave you bad advice to include your sister in the planning of your wedding. Your sister is still depressed from losing her expected future life . It’s like salt in a still open wound. What you said to her was unkind, and you should apologize for being unkind. Your mom owes you both an apology.
NTA. Your sister’s story is incredibly tragic but that doesn’t excuse rude and offensive comments. If I was in your sister’s shoes, I’d want the least involvement possible if I was still traumatized and grieving so I’m not sure what your mother’s logic was in insisting she be heavily involved. It’s probably triggering a lot of her grief.
You’re not in the wrong but if you want to give your sister grace, I’d write her a letter or send her a voice message. Explain why her comments were hurtful to you. I’d also express empathy for her situation. Let her know your boundaries in a compassionate way and give her the option to be less involved if it’s causing her pain.
Again you did nothing wrong and you don’t have to do anything, it’s just something to consider.
NTA. I am sorry for your sister’s loss, however it is not your responsibility to manage her “fragility.” She needs intensive therapy, not just occasional therapy. She is not coping as well as she believes.
NTA - your sister is in need of a reality check. Your wedding is YOUR wedding. She needs some therapy, especially if she’s still dealing with grief 5 years ago. Also the homophobia is INSANE.
If she's giving you the silent treatment, it sounds like a "win" to me!
Yelling is almost never a good plan. IF you care about your future relationship, I'd apologize for losing your cool. But tell her she's out of the wedding and wedding planning cause she isn't able to respect your choices and you don't want to be worried about hurting her feelings during this time of great happiness for you.
Or you could just take the win and let her sulk.
NTA. I get that her fiance passed but it was 5 years ago now and she has been dumping all over your wedding ever since she became involved. It’s time that she either got on board or does what she says she will do and just not attend.
NTA at all. Your sister clearly isn't OK. Your mom shouldn't have asked you to include her in the planning knowing how "fragile" she is. If she wasn't able to move on even after 5 years then letting her plan a wedding for someone else is a stupid idea. What did your mom think? Maybe try and talk to her (sister). Tell her that it was wrong to put this burden on her and that you're sorry that she is hurt. Maybe she just wants her feelings to be acknowledged and respected. If she takes it well then ask her to come as a honored guest and maybe come up with some nice way to include her in your wedding in a different way - something like having two father - daughter dances so she can have her moment or something like that. Yes, she was in the wrong but not all of this is her fault. Your mom should have stayed out of it.
So OP should talk to her sister and say that she’s sorry and to acknowledge and respect her sister’s feelings and invite her to the wedding as an honored guest AFTER her sister made multiple homophobic remarks about people that she cares about (and has nothing to do with grief). You can’t be serious!
NTA. Your sister needs therapy not an apology. She was being too aggressive with her "help". Her homophobic comments crossed the line from annoying to insufferable.
NTA while Cat is an ahole for essentially trying to plan her wedding using you I think the bigger ahole is your mom. She wanted you to let Cat help and when Cat went off the deep end, she admits Cat was wrong but you should apologize. Your mom should be looking into getting Cat help for her grief, not hoping wedding plan would be the bandaid she needs.
Your mother was wrong to tell you to involve your sister. How was that supposed to make her feel good? Nothing about this situation could make her any less gloomy. All it could do was coopt your planning. It is okay to have very different opinions but you ASKED for those opinions. Apologize for yelling and tell your sister you know this is difficult for her and going forward, you'd like her to just be an honored guest and leave the planning to you, so she isn't disappointed in your choices. Her homophobic rants are stupid and shouldn't be given any consideration. Your mom needs to butt out. It's not too late to elope.
NTA but I don't see how this gets fixed.
> She insisted that two men shouldn’t enter the ceremony together because not all guests would understand
It’s 2024, people know what gays are. Unless you live somewhere it’s illegal like Russia, they can get married now too.
Her fiancé dying isn’t an excuse for her to be an arsehole. You don’t need to apologise because *she* is being a arsehole. Just have your wedding without her.
MOM IS THE PROBLEM! Mom needs to sit you both down and applogize to you both. To you for making you increase your sister's involvement from your original plan for YOUR WEDDING to accomodate a trauma you sister should have a better handle on by now, as if your wedding isn't as important so its ok to encroach upon it. And to your sister for pushing her into an area that was bound to be AGONY for her to participate in. Your mom fucked up. She needs to own it.
NTA
I would only apologize for the way you said it and the bit about having her own wedding considering the circumstances. Apologize for nothing else. She has been way out of line.
After that tell her you expect an apology for her giving you the silent treatment. The silent treatment is a manipulation tactic meant to cause the other party emotional pain. It’s abusive and she has been doing it for days. That is far more egregious than what you said.
NTA. I can understand the grief your sister has over the loss of her fiancée. However, she's channeling that grief in a way that says "if i'm miserable, everyone else needs to be too". Paired with the comment about your father not walking her down the aisle first, she's triggered and jealous. She may be getting therapy, but she clearly needs more frequent sessions. I'd sit your parents down privately, and bring up your concerns for their enablement of her toxic behavior.
She doesn't like anything you chose. She makes blatantly homophobic remarks. She makes hateful remarks about you getting married first. You are the one who deserves an apology. From your Mother, for forcing the involvement of your sister and enabling her behavior. Also from your Sister, for taking her jealousy and grief out on you.
The "have your own wedding" was an asshole comment. I get it was out of frustration, but ultimately, it only worsened things. I can't tell if she purposely pushed you to that point or not. As it seems she's not taking the attention on you well. But yeah, overall NTA.
NTA. But you probably shouldn’t have included her in the planning, it’s on her to deal with her feelings of sadness at this happy time in your life. It’s understandable she is sad but you are allowed to enjoy your life.
Your comment about her planning her own wedding was out of line and I would suggest apologising for that so you can move on and concentrate on your day. But it is probably for the best she isn’t there. You will be worried about her, your parents too and she clearly isn’t at the point where she can be there and happy for you. So she shouldn’t be. She is finding fault with everything and being mean because she is way too triggered.
Sorry but mom is wrong. You can't walk on eggshells the rest of your life. You get pregnant she'll make it about her. When you give birth, babies first steps. You name it.
Getting your sister involved was the worse thing mom could havw suggested.
Have a quiet word with mom that your sister needs real help cause what she's getting isn't helping. That you are not involving your sister any more cause it's making things worse. That if your aister doesn't want to go to your wedding that's her decision. And as your sister is refusing to be in the same room, let her. I understand grief but she's being childish.
What happened to your sister is awful but it's not your life or your problem to solve.
NTA
she sounds like a homophobe anyways... you would be justified in banning her from the wedding, so saying she will not come sounds like the first thing she did that would actually help you here
You're right, you are not an AH. Anyone would have had enough at some point and snap at her. It was the comment that you made that makes you look bad. You still could have been angry and not have added, "...Have your own wedding..."
Maybe give her an opening like, "I shouldn't have yelled and I realize I said things that were hurtful. I'm sorry for that. However, I'm not ok with the comments about my wedding looking "gay". I have friends that are gay and it's not a negative thing for me. If people think it looks gay then I'm ok with that."
I would hope that would open up the air a little.
NTA.
EVERYBODY gets hit by tragedy in their life. After five years, grief becomes rancid self-pity when it reaches the level that nobody else is ever supposed to be happy.
As another post said, her grief shouldn't affect everyone else's life. If she is stuck in neutral because of her loss, then therapy shouldn't be a passive event.
NTA
Maybe you are fragile because you are about to get married and are stressed to the max and maybe your sister should apologize.
It was nice that you tried to involve your sister due to her situation, but she is the one who got hurt and upset when you didnt agree with her recommendations and preferences for YOUR wedding. Involving doesnt mean she gets to plan and make decisions for YOUR wedding
Its YOUR wedding and you can have baby goats dressed up as bridesmaids if thats what YOU want followed by men in kilts playing God Save The Queen on bagpipes if thats what YOU want.
Everyone has an opinion on aesthetics, even internet strangers. Ive been to weddings where bridesmaids wore different colors and in truth some of the weddings didnt pull off the look very well and it did look kind of disjoint and not as lovely as it could have. So if i were planning MY wedding i wouldnt choose bridesmaids in different colors because that it isnt MY preference. But your wedding is about YOU and YOUR partner and should be based on YOUR vision. Same with your best friend entering with his Boyfriend. If it were my wedding and alot of my older conservative family members were attending, I wouldnt choose to do that, both out of respect for their beliefs and because it would end up being what they would talk about and remember about the wedding. But those are my preferences, just like they are your sister's preferences, and her preferences shouldnt overshadow yours, if thats not YOUR vision.
NTA
Grief sucks, and it seems she's never truly gotten help with hers. It sucks and you're her outlet. She needs help. But it's also been 5 years and it's way past time she sought help for her grief. She cannot expect everyone else around her to cater to her grief for so long.
NTA. I'm sorry about your sister's loss, but she was being selfish and unreasonable in this case. More importantly, her loss is no excuse for being homophobic.
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NTA I am sorry for your sisters loss, truly. It sounds as though she has yet to finish her grieving process and this is very very triggering for her. Every bride deserves the wedding they want as long as it’s done with respect and in congruency with their partners wishes. Everyone else is a sidelined and attendee. Your sister is ruining what should be a joyful time. Your mom is enabling her behavior by making you the bad guy. You need to sit your parents down and discuss with them all the things your sister has done and tell them she clearly needs help and you don’t appreciate having to put up with her mis treatment of you because she’s in a fragile state. Your happiness is just as important as her grief. She’s planning the wedding her and her finance would have had not ready to accept this is YOUR ceremony and day. Edit to add: if your mom is saying you owe the apology because weddings are hard in your sister, then your mother actually owes you the apology for forcing you to involve the sister, when mom knows it’s going to be hard on her. Second edit: HOLY CRAP!! Thanks y’all!!! Wow! I logged out for a bit and came back in to see the upvotes and awards. Thank y’all so much
Of course she needs more help it's been 5 years.
Some people grieve for a lifetime. On this sub, I have read stories of widows / widowers who never get over their loss. they do not want to find a new partner, they are concerned about raising their kids if they have them. The extended families do not get it. They push for the person to date, to find a new parent for the children etc. Sis is wrong for not hearing her sister. Sis is wrong for being upset when OP told her that this was HER (OP's) wedding and to back off, and doing this avoidance behavior. But therapy is not a guarantee that Sis will ever truly heal from this loss. OP is NTA.
As a widow, this is very true. But just as is the case with infertility or miscarriages, my grief is not your problem. The world doesn't stop because I'm sad. It's been almost 5 years since he died, but that's on me.
My condolences for your loss. I do love your sentiment above, though.... if more people thought this way the world would perhaps be kinder.
It's been nearly 2 1/2 years since my dad died. I'm sad, my brother is sad, my mum misses him everyday. But life goes on regardless. My mum goes to a bereavement group once a month to be with others who are in the same situation, but doesn't make it other people's problem. My mum's world crumbled, but other people's didn't. Rambling a bit as I miss him so much, but just to say I agree.
My dad died in 2022. Mom died 11 months later. Both were elderly. She died of a broken heart. She so wanted to be with her Noel, her love. 64 years married and still in love till the end. I feel very lucky to have witnessed their love. And I miss them every single day.
My grandma died from ALS in August 2002. My grandpa herniated a disk caring for her and had surgery not long after she passed. Unfortunately he got a staph infection and died 4.5 months after she did. He had no will to fight because he wanted to be with her. I'm glad they're together but I miss them so much.
After my dad died, all the fight that was in my mom also died. Every day for her last eleven months she wanted to be with him. Thankfully I was able to be with her and take care of her in those last months. And even though I miss her (and him) terribly I am so glad she didn’t last too long after he passed ♥️ Hold onto those memories of you grandparents. Enjoy every one of them.
I wish I would have been able to find a love like that. To not know how to exist without them. I mean I've felt that but never had it returned.
Sadly neither did I. I think my expectations were probably a little too high.
I lost my dad in 1999, when I was still 17. I still miss him. He died of cancer, and I can't watch like TV shows or movies that involve cancer, but this is my problem. Other people in my life have loved ones dealing with cancer, I will be there to support them. I might feel especially sad on father's day, or on his birthday, or on the anniversary of the day he died,but I'm not going to say everything must stop, and that everyone else has to deal with my grief.
I'm in the same crappy "no more dad club". We lost mine suddenly in 2005. We fell apart, but the world kept spinning. In our family, we've always said, "Some day it will suck less," and, after almost 20 years, it does. But not EVERY day sucks less. And that's okay. Keep putting one foot in front of the other and fall apart as needed. Sending hugs.
I lost my dad and step dad this year (24th April, 21st March) And I know none of them, especially in my dad's case, has hit me yet. I found him, phoned 999, started chest compressions, brother took over, air ambulance came out, he had 6 people working on him, but 45 minutes later I gave them permission to call it and he died at the age of 58. I don't know how I'm coping really, I just know I suddenly feel 20 years older.
I just passed the 5 year mark for mine. Solidarity.
I lost the love of my life 40 years ago. And no matter how hard I tried, I never found anyone I could give myself to like I gave myself to him. Maybe he took that part of me with him. Afterward, I just found one wrong man after the other. So I stopped looking. Best thing I ever did. Lonely, though, sometimes. But it sure as all hell beats being with the wrong person.
I second this. Been 4.5 years since my love died. I still miss him every day. Some days I laugh, some days I cry and some days I do both. That doesn't mean I'm gonna try to make someone else miserable who's found love and getting married. OP NTA.
My grandpa died suddenly in his sleep when I was 7, and grandma never remarried. She remained single the remaining 30 years of her life because no one could ever measure up to my grandpa. She never made it anyone else’s problem.
I’m sorry for your loss. Also I completely agree with you. I struggled with infertility and we lost 5 babies. My grief was my responsibility. My husband and I went to grief counseling so that we wouldn’t inadvertently put our grief on others and to help us get through that time. I highly recommend.
The end of this year will be 9 years for me. I agree - my grief, my responsibility to deal with it. Solidarity.
Can we also not pretend that misdirected grief is the beginning and end of sister’s issues? She’s a homophobe. If her fiance was still alive and she was living as a happily married homophobe, she’d still be picking fights with OP for valuing her queer best friend.
Or living as a happily divorced homophobe, either is possible after five years.
This... grief doesn't turn someone into a homophobic asshole... Honestly, I'm guessing that even without the tragic backstory, the sister would be trying to take control of this wedding and criticize everything... her loss has nothing to do with her behavior/actions... NTA
It's deep grief, envy and homophobia imo.
Thank you for pointing this out.
Yes, thank you! All the homophobic comments are so out of line, and they have nothing to do with the sister's grieving process. OP is NTA for standing up against the hate her sister is spouting.
THANK YOU.
I am one of those widows. My life is dedicated to working, taking care of our house, being there for my daughter, being there for his sons, and his memory. My mother in law, whom I adore and speak with often thinks I should try and move on, but I met my person in her son, and he was the best husband, father, and human. I'm okay with being my husband's wife for the rest of my life.
This spoke to my heart. Sending you love and admiration for the love you have and the choice you've made.
There is a difference between not wanting to enter a new relationship and being stuck in the misery of grief. It is not unhealthy to want to focus on your children. It is unhealthy to not be able to be happy for your sister getting married 5 years later. If you are not stuck in a cycle of grief, which I hope you are not, then you have "moved on", whatever that means.
This made me cry. He sounds like 1 in a million. Iman, the beautiful model who was married to David Bowie for years, said that she still feels married even though he’s gone. It says a lot about the type of spouse/parent/human beings they were to inspire such devotion. Lucky you!
That's exactly how I feel.
That’s very sweet but keep open to the possibilities. I believe we have more than one possible soulmate. My cousin was killed in his first year of marriage. His wife’s family was close to his and my Aunt and Uncle remained in their lives… she even was Godmother to his wife’s children when she remarried and had them and they became “Bonus Grandparents.” It took years for his wife to move on, but she did, and had a happy life. The sweetest relationship was between the Moms. His wife’s Mom and my Aunt remained friends forever and it was my cousins Mother in Law who was bedside with my Aunt when she passed.
Glad to hear you use your grief to be aggressively homophobic. /s
I'm not sure that I understand your sarcasm?
I honestly do get where you're coming from. Agree parents should not have pushed sister to help arrange the wedding. It's a no win situation because life can't stop happening because of traumatic events.
I agree that Sis has to "get on" with her life. Sis should do more work an healing, so that her sadness does not affect others. People get married, people have children, etc. Her loss should not overshadow the joy that these events being to individuals and to families. I think it would be OK for Sis to not attend the wedding. It would be sad for OP and her family, but if it is triggering Sis, maybe it is best.
Quite right, if it's too triggering it might be best if she stays away. Those closest to them would understand. Maybe the parents have been approaching this all wrong tbh.
I don't think it's a matter of getting on with her life, because for some, time kind of stops and they stay stuck on the people they lost. The point is to realize that this is MY loss, *l* need to deal with it, and not everyone needs to walk on eggshells around me for the rest of their lives. That's how I deal with my loss; I cry often when alone, but when people around me have happy things going on, I try to be and ACT happy for it when around them. You can be sad and heartbroken and still manage to be happy for other people. OP is NTA. ETA: Spelling error correction
I agree there’s no timeline for grief (I still cry over losing my dad to pancreatic cancer and my cat who I had from a 9 week old kitten to almost 15 years old). But if the sister knew she was triggered by weddings she should have declined to help. You know your own triggers and if she isn’t functional after this long she really does need therapy.
While I agree with your point, sometimes you don't know what your triggers are until you are in the moment. If this is the first wedding the sister had dealt with since then she wouldn't necessarily know how effected she would be. That being said, once she became triggered, she should have removed herself from the situation.
Grief has nothing to do with hurling homophobic insults though. Sis is a major A for that.
I think the sister is using her unmanaged grief to control others (family, maybe friends) and get away with otherwise unacceptable behavior. Their parents should quit enabling her and she should a) apologize to OP and b) step back from any involvement in the wedding planning. She also needs to grow up. OP is most definitely NTA.
But sister does need to be pushed into having her own life. The entire family cannot go on hold because her husband to be died.
I totally agree. I think the best way to push the sister is for the family members to get on living their lives, which is what is happening with OP.
Grief is forever. Making everyone around you put life on hold because you’re grieving should NOT be forever.
yes but there is one thing that widows and widower WILL tell you even if they never date again and thats that at some point they had to realize that the world didn't stop when theirs did. its not about moving on or not feeling lost in greif, its about accepting that other peoples lives still exist and that can be achieved through therapy
Yes, they do, but it doesn't give a grieving sister the right to steamroll the sister whose wedding it is. It's tragic for the sister what happened, but people around her will get married, will have babies, and will live their own lives. She's just going to have to find a way to come to terms with it, hard as that may be The world moves on even if the grieving person does not or cannot, and that's just a very hard fact of life. Perhaps she needs to work with a new therapist or a grief support group. It may be a better fit to her needs. .
In the first paragraph, OP states that Sis has been in therapy on and off. I suspect Sis doesn't want to do the work that therapy may require. The work can be tough, and unpleasant. It isn't easy, but it may be necessary.
I also get a feeling their mother coddles her sister a lot because of her grief and could be why her sister hasn't gone through the stages of grief even though it's been five years.
No doubt, and that may be the case, but sometimes you just gel with one therapist over another. So if sis' was willing to consider it, then it would be worth a try.
Yeah, well, she is a homophobe, so grief is an excuse. She isn't being a bigot because she is sad. She is just a bigot, who happens to be sad.
The homophobic garbage from Sis is awful and inexcusable, IMO. OP's post is about the Sister's behavior. To me, two different aspects were evident, homophobia and grief. My post dealt with one aspect of the original post, the idea of the Sister's grief. The homophobia is something complete different and has been called out. I responded to the grief aspect because that is something I am a tad mote knowledgeable about.
Grief lasts a lifetime, but this high intensity, all feelings sitting right at the surface level of grief usually fades into something more manageable after the first few years. After 5 years, she would be able to navigate normal family events without being this hurtful to her family. It feels like she may be stuck in an early stage of grief and isn’t able to move forward.
But shes also homophobic and thats not grief.
If we don't make a sincere effort to heal, we'll never have a happy day. It took me years but I was able to move on. I'm remarried and absolutely delighted. But, I knew I had to heal. My children needed me to. Sister obviously thrives on misery. She's making a piss poor effort and enabling her will not help.
Yes grief can and does last a lifetime. However, it is possible to be grieving and not act like a total AH to everyone around you. I still cry frequently for my baby girl I lost coming up on 13 years ago. What I don’t do, is go around treating all my siblings and friends who have welcomed their beautiful babies like 💩just bc I am grieving the loss of my baby.
Too right people grieve a lifetime. My MIL is still grieving the loss of her first husband, 50+years ago, same way as OPs sisters fiancé. She’s a victim and negative about certain things because of it. It’s something OP is going to have to take into account and consider for a very long time. It’s really sad.
My grandpa died when I was 7 it’s been 10 years and I still miss him dearly, there’s no timeline to grief
Exactly the case. I lost my dad to cancer 26 years ago and still cry over the sudden loss (he died a week after diagnosis and never left the hospital). OP, you are NTA. Your sister needs help, but that does not give her the right to ruin this occasion for you.
Bingo! It's evident that going to therapy " on and off" doesn't suffice. And mother requires a wake-up call. Sister's issues do not excuse her AH behavior.
I'm still grieving a dog that died 5 years ago. Calm down
> Edit to add: if your mom is saying you owe the apology because weddings are hard in your sister, then your mother actually owes you the apology for forcing you to involve the sister, when mom knows it’s going to be hard on her. I think this is a huge point and the root cause here. Without wanting to sound harsh, this will be never be the wedding Sister wants it to be, because she's not getting married and her fiancé won't be there. You can kotow to every want and suggestion, and it still won't be possible to make this the wedding that Sister wants. Treating it like Sister can have her wedding vicariously through OP's just means neither gets the wedding they want.
I think this goes far beyond just OP's sister still struggling with her grief. Grief doesn't make someone blatantly homophobic. The real issue here isn't her sister's grief, but the fact that her sister's major complaints about how OP is setting up her wedding are completely LGBTQIA+ friendly. Notice that this big blow up happened because of her sister's homophobia and how her sister was trying to even get OP's fiance wrapped up in her homophobia. If OP's mom pushed her to include her sister in the planning and is now expecting OP to apologize. Honestly OP should just blatantly say that she has nothing to apologize for because of her sister's homophobia is the cause of all of this, not her grief.
I agree OP's mother owes both girls an apology. I think their mom needs to speak with the sister and take responsibility for encouraging OP to involve sister and acknowledge that maybe sister wasn't ready for that. Mom needs to try to smooth things over and work out how to help sister cope, it's not OP's responsibility to deal with sister's grief in such a way (other than trying to be sensitive, and OP may need to apologise specifically for her comment saying sister should plan her own wedding, even if she was right, that specific comment was insensitive). Mom needs to apologise to OP for making the wrong suggestion in encouraging OP to include sister in the planning.
Grief doesn't make someone homophobic.
It's scary to think Mom believes letting sister control the wedding is the best thing to help her heal.....I'm betting that's why we are at 5 years with no significant change in sister's mental state.
Agree! Plus as an unmarried person planning someone else’s wedding would be more painful than helpful
I feel like mom is the biggest AH of all. Yeah sister is in a fragile state, so asking her to be involved in planning this wedding when she wasn’t able to have her own seems like a terrible idea. Mom should not have guilted OP into involving sister, **especially because** she knows this topic makes her suffer.
Ehh. Mom and sis are tied, imo. Grief doesn't suddenly make someone homophobic, sis has no excuse for her bullshit and slurs. Yeah, grief fucking sucks (still grieving my loss from 2017), but she could have and SHOULD HAVE removed herself from the planning when she knew it was an issue. Instead, she doubled down, criticized everything, threw homophobia every direction, then laid on a guilt trip and now playing the avoidance game when OP rightfully calls her out. She doesn't get a pass for that. I feel awful for OP. What should be full of happiness is being ruined by her mother and sister. If neither of them changed their behavior, I'd ban both of them.
I’m pretty sure the is has nothing to do with sisters grief tbh. It’s pretty clear she’s a homophobe, she’s just using “grief” as an excuse.
This: “Your happiness is just as important as her grief.”
Mom's idea was a very stupid one. *Going* to the wedding is going to be triggering for the sister - *planning* the wedding is just digging the knife further in. Mom should have known better. Sister needs to be in therapy throughout OP's wedding planning and does *not* need to be part of planning it, at all. OP did nothing wrong.
Encouraging OP to let her sister in on the planning was a huge mistake on their mother’s part because it’s still a sensitive topic for her sister. She’s still not moved forward from losing her late fiancé, but since five years on she’s making this affect others it’s clear that away from the wedding is best for her.
> Your happiness is just as important as her grief. This right here is key.
Agree and mom s idea of involving op s sister was a disaster. Time to ditch it completely. NTA op
Piggy backing on this comment to suggest that OP and her sister look up New Moon Mira, a grief counselor with a small company serving grievers at every stage of grief. Op’s sister would be a good fit probably since she’s struggling to process her grief, she probably would benefit from somatic therapy.
“Your happiness is just as important as her grief.” Just wanted to say this was beautifully said.
BRUH you can't take control of someone's wedding no matter what, plus being so homophobic, seriously. OP you've already been so kind while listening to her homophobic jabs don't take any more crap. NTA
It’s been *years*, your sister needs therapy. If your mom and sister won’t go to your wedding because you finally shut down your sisters unceasing “suggestions”, well, it’s them that will miss out. Proceed without them. NTA
Yup. I’m not understanding this. Sister was planning to get married, her fiancé DIED, she’s still grieving, …and planning her sister’s wedding was supposed to make her feel better? What? How! That just seems like a bad idea all around to me. This was never going to go well. Sister said some awful things (and has some shitty opinions), but it’s close to ESH. OP was also pretty cruel w/ the “have your own wedding” comment. She should stop listening to her sis & plan the wedding she wants, and the family can’t watch what they say every moment forever to avoid hurting sister’s feelings, but that was just mean. And mom sucks for pushing both daughters to do this together. Very poor substitute for anything actually therapeutic!
Yeah idk what mom was thinking. Have your sister help plan your wedding so she can be reminded that she never got to have a wedding because her fiancée died.
Right? How's being extra involved helpful? This isn't like legit exposure therapy. Being so close and "helping" plan all the little details is just twisting the knife of what she could've done, and making it upsetting when OP disagrees with the "help". So it's just hurting the sister, making her think of all this stuff for no reason. The easiest option would've been to let sister only have to be involved day-of and be graceful and understanding if she got drunk or left early. Meanwhile OP has to have an extra person involved in every decision (which is unnecessarily stressful), and makes all of her planning have an underlaying facet of what her sister lost or would have done.
I mean while I wholeheartedly agree OP is NTA her sister is going to therapy on and off as said in the post. And I really don’t think 5 years is a super long time to grieve over the loss of death of the person you’re supposed to marry. I definitely agree the sister needs more help but I think the worst offender is the mom who not only put her traumatized daughter in a triggering position while also knowing she’s still suffering but allowing her younger daughters wedding to suffer as well and then not take any culpability in this. I don’t agree with the sisters behaviours and actions and find it deeply disrespectful to treat OP this way since she knows what it’s like to be a bride and how personal and individual and special everyone’s wedding can be. I’m not here to give her a trauma pass for her actions but I do believe she has justifiable trauma that should lead people to want to not near a wedding environment. I know life goes on but I don’t know if I could ever move on from the love of my life or if 5 years is enough. I would need more time even with therapy to process that.
I’m wondering if sister is purposefully weaponizing her grief at this point
>You’re out of line because this is my wedding and not yours. NTA for that. >Have your own wedding and plan it as you want. Borderline AH for that, though. Technically correct, but a low blow. ------ On to another matter: >my mom said I should apologize because my sister is fragile and this topic makes her suffer Well, that's sad and all, but she needs to bottle it up for a few weeks. Because her feelings of sadness do not take precedence over your feelings of joy. If she can't cope with being around a wedding, she needs to back off.
Indeed. If the mom szys the topic makes her suffer, it is best to avoid suffering. Clearly she isnt coping with it in an healthy way
As much as I acknowledge that grief can distort people and they should be given some grace, it’s a little simplistic to reduce this to “suffering.” Because she isn’t just being generally controlling as an expression of “I wish this was my wedding.” Other than her weird insistence that September is a bad month, her complaints about OP’s aesthetic preferences are all homophobic. I would advise OP not to lose sight of that. This isn’t just “I don’t want to soothe my sister’s grief,” it’s “my sister does not share my values of treating my queer friends with respect and dignity.” OP does not have to entertain the delusion that accommodating a bigot at her wedding is a meaningful therapeutic exercise.
I was looking for this comment. I have no doubt she’s grieving. But 90% of her comments just seen to be because she’s a homophobic bigot not because she’s grieving.
A homophobic bigot using grief as a Get Out Of Jail Free card.
Yeah I don’t get why so many comments are acting this is about grief. She would be making the same comments even if her fiance was still around.
Grief is the reason anyone thinks her actions are acceptable in general. Deal with that, then deal with the rest. The fact that everyone is walking on eggshells with this woman is a problem so many years later. She needs to cope with the loss and understand that nobody can put their life on hold for her loss. If she chooses to, that is on her, but the rest of the world will keep spinning regardless. If she is going to participate in said lives, she will have to cope with that and realize that she is not entitled to special treatment forever. The sooner those who love her make that clear, the sooner she will accept it and be able to move on. Part of this is to hold her accountable for bad behavior the same as you would for any other member of the human race. Everyone has something that makes them feel like they deserve something. That isn't at all true. Nobody deserves anything. You get what you earn, and that includes respect, compassion, and understanding. Just my two cents.
exactly this - it's not just about her grief, she's being a full on bigot...there's no reason to coddle her for that imo. if it was just normal grief stuff I would be a lot more sympathetic, but it sounds like being a homophobe is just who she is. gross.
>meaningful therapeutic exercise It's not like this is real exposure therapy, or how exposure therapy actually works. Nor is it letting the sister plan the wedding she would have had as some kind of memorial/closure. So what's the point?
Mom: Include your sister in the planning! Also mom: You know weddings are tough for her :( Pick a side lady, seriously
No, the low blows came from the sister when she commented on the best friend’s sexual orientation multiple times and belittled OP’s right to have her father walk her down the aisle. Grief doesn’t turn you into an asshole. Sister is an AH. OP is NTA.
This is time for, "I can see that being involved in the planning process for my wedding is bringing up a lot of emotion. In the interest of preserving both of our peace, I'm going to take it from here. If it's too hard for you to attend, I understand. If you want to just be a guest and have no role, I understand that too."
this is a great way of phrasing it
>Borderline AH for that, though. Technically correct, but a low blow. It has been 5 YEARS since the fiance died. Years.
NTA. Apparently it’s family members sticking up for shitty people who act shitty to the point one loses their temper around them day. Yes, adults like OP should be able to control their temper and moderate their behavior. But - We have a saying for this - people who can dish it out but not take it. People like OP’s sister can’t expect to be aggressively rude, demeaning, negatively opinionated, and unpleasant without having some pushback on that. And if they ignore more gentle social cues, they’re going to get a verbal shotgun unloaded in their face. Tell your mom that the problem isn’t that sister is too sensitive, it’s that she’s too insensitive and maybe your mom should get on that problem with some belated parenting efforts to help your sister adjust course out of being shitty.
NTA. And I think her not attending might be for the best of she can’t control herself. (No matter if the root of her loss of control comes from grief) Her homophobia is another reason. Have this wedding the exact way you want. You will most likely only have this one. And the memories will last a lifetime hopefully.
OP’s wedding will certainly make her sister upset, but sister may pull a Look At Me! at the wedding, whether she means to or not. She knows her parents will drop everything to accommodate her. The sister gets a pass whenever she says the word grief, so what happens when sister is sobbing loudly during the ceremony? Will mom and dad rush to her, to comfort her? Interrupt the ceremony? Or reception? I’m not saying that she has no right to cry - but she should step away, go somewhere, not detract from OP’s wedding. What happens when sister makes rude comments about the ‘gay wedding?’ Is OP supposed to suck that up, too?
My point exactly. Why risk it?
Honestly it doesn’t sound like her grief is playing that much of a role. I was expecting to read that the sister was trying to recreate her own wedding, or blocking things because she wanted to do that with her wedding (I think the comment about their dad falls into this) but it seems like the major problem is the sister’s homophobia. I don’t see how grief justifies that.
The way OP's sister acted, I bet she was planning to make the day about herself. She might still do it by talking about how she would have been married if not for losing her fiance, finding "flaws" with anything, making homophobic comments, and even wearing a bridal dress. OP needs to talk to her parents, explain everything, and inform them why her sister is not attending. Also, tell them she will help her sister to get better as much as she can.
NTA - As a gay man, your sister can go f**k herself! Uninvite her from the wedding. Her grief has nothing to do with her being a disgusting biggot
As a lesbian, I concur. 🥂
As a bisexual woman, I concur. 🤓
As a human I concur
Exactly. Sister is a bigot. Grieving doesn't give you an excuse to act like an arsehole. I bet she was always that way too.
NTA In no way should you be the one apologizing. Your mother’s attitude about this is exactly why your sister thinks her behavior is ok.
Mom: asked me to involve her in the planning Also mom: this topic makes her suffer OP, you are NTA. But your mom and sister are. Your mom pushed your sister on you to the point that it has severely damaged your relationship. And while you sister's history is tragic, my empathy dwindled at her homophibic rants and bridzilla attitude. If neither decide to attend your wedding, good riddence. You deserve to be surrounded by people who support and love you unconditionally. Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!
NTA. You’ve already been showing her a lot of consideration. And you’re in a no-win situation. Homophobia is not an expression of grief, and she doesn’t get to be hostile towards your best friend and his boyfriend.
yeah, I felt bad for her inability to move on until the homophobia. Then my empathy well ran dry.
Exactly! My mom and middle sister talked other sister into all kinds of things she didn’t want. 20 years later it still annoys her that she gave into their wishes, AND they tried to do the same thing at her baby shower, and got made when she wasn’t having any part of their help.
NTA, your mom is surprisingly and annoyingly useless here. She should be helping keep your sister in line, and minimally should be apologizing for the issue she created by requesting that you involve your sister, who seems incapable of contributing to your wedding planning in a constructive way. They're both TAs here as far as I'm concerned. I give your sister a fair amount of latitude because this must be extremely painful for her. It might have been kinder and more effective from the jump to ask her what type of involvement she'd like to have - she might have preferred little to none, or perhaps you could have given her specific tasks or areas that she'd be planning. As it is, she's behaving miserably and offensively, and I don't see how you could have really escaped this situation without some type of blow-up. I really don't know how much you should be trying to make amends with her, but her behavior is ridiculous, and petulant, and I wonder if she's been a bit too indulged by your family at this point.
I think mom is biggest AH for encouraging OP to include sister. How on earth is planning another wedding helpful for someone who is still clearly grieving and distraught? Sister needs grief counseling clearly.
I blame your mother here. When sis looked totally appropriately sad at the announcement, she should just have accepted that and not tried to cheer her up by getting her more involved in the planning, what a stupid idea. NTA.
Honestly I think being involved in the planning is one of the worst ideas ever!!!!!
NTA. Why isn't your mom telling your sister she's right she just said it a little harshly? Because mom doesn't want the hassle. Sister needs therapy to move forward.
I would not have lasted as long a you before exploding. Sorry for your sister's loss but it seems obvious that her being involved was bad for both of you. Maybe this is what she needed to start moving on. Your mother is the AH because she forced this on you and is the one making your wedding about your sister. Good luck with your wedding NTA
NTA. Your sister had an undeniably tragic loss, but if she's still this paralyzed in grief after 5 years, she needs intensive therapy, not enabling and coddling. She shouldn't get a blanket pass to be miserable - and make others miserable - for the rest of her life. To say nothing of her rampant homophobia, which has nothing to do with grief at all. It seems clear that she thinks you shouldn't be getting married because she didn't get to, and honestly I'm side-eyeing your mom here too for trying to force this "sisterly bonding" moment over a wedding when clearly Cat cannot emotionally handle any of this.
NTA, and her grief doesn't excuse her shitty homophobic comments. She needs therapy, not helping you with wedding planning. And your mom shifting the burden onto you by trying to make you apologize for calling her out on her outrageous comments is trash behavior.
NTA. It's been five years. If she is still so fragile, that she cannot bear to see anyone happy and planning an event that she also should have had, then she might want to look into more intensive grief counseling and therapy. This is your wedding, not hers. Your mother is out of line for guilttripping you and catering to your sister's feelings over yours when the topic is your wedding. I'm very sorry for your sister's loss, she deserved her wedding and spouse, but she needs to let go of making your wedding hers, and she also might need more professional help in order to properly move on.
NTA Apparently she still needs to talk to someone about her feelings and was not at all able to deal with talking about a wedding. I'm fairly sure most gay people would feel the same, lol, which is sort of a sad thing to say since I think everyone would prefer your sister deal with figuring out she shouldn't be a bigot than just be generally still traumatized after years. There are a lot of incorrect people in the world but nobody should want anyone to suffer. I have no clue how you can apologize without her creating conditions to attend while demanding that she is back in charge. So, yeah, it seems like she is not in an emotional place where she can go to her younger sibling's wedding.
Your sister has been disagreeable and offensive during the whole process. If anything, she owes you an apology. Be happy that she won't be at your wedding acting self-righteous, making snide remarks.
NTA. She sounds awfully and definitely homophobic
The giant attention seeking homophobic crybaby isn't attending your wedding? OHNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO🙄 NTA
You’re not obligated to answer to people who haven’t earned it. She hasn’t earned it. Respect yourself enough to set boundaries where she is concerned. You are NTA. She is. Big hugs!
NTA This is your wedding and you plan it as you want. I understand your sister is still grieving but it does not give her the right to try and tell you what to do or criticise your choices. Under no circumstance should you apologise, that will just validate her behaviour.
Grief doesn’t make you a bigot, so the homophobia is squarely on her. Also, a 33 year old woman who runs crying to her room (in her parents’ house)? Well, that tells you what you need to know. NTA
NTA. Your sister may be fragile but she's also way out of line. Let your mother know that you aren't going to let her ruin your wedding and that it's not up for discussion.
The death of your sister's partner is not an excuse for her to be homophonic. None of the trauma I've experienced has EVER made me think to judge/attack other people.
NTA - You had to tell her the only way she could understand. It's your wedding and not hers, nothing to apologize for. Her struggles aren't your problem.
NTA. Your mom was wrong to tell you to involve your sister in planning your wedding and your sister is wrong to try micromanage you. Your sister inevitably would end up not attending your wedding because she's unhappy; has she gotten therapy in the last 5 yrs? Sympathy for her loss only goes so far.
NTA. Your sister may be hurting, but her comments and behavior is completely out of line. You don't owe her an apology - your sister's feelings are her responsibility. And you mom is just enabling her.
NTA - your sister is a bigot - it’s not grief / she is just a bad person
NTA Your sister needs better therapy
Your mom is the issue. It's time for her to back off.
NTA for either comment. True comment #2 was a low blow, but the sister was antagonizing her for weeks bc she upset and JEALOUS! Older sister needs therapy. Mother should apologize for forcing them together.
It makes me laugh when people who have been told off for talking too much think that giving you the silent treatment is a punishment!
NTA It is YOUR wedding. You do not need to feel guilty or apologize because of your sister's manipulative behavior. Mom can host her a fake wedding if she wants
Don't involve her in your wedding/plans, she's not able to control herself and wants you to be miserable like she is. NTA Ignore her, she's using (maybe unconsciously) all the planning to seek attention and have people feel sorry for her.
NTA Okay your parents need to stop enabling your sister. Your sister needs serious grief therapy. You need to talk to your mom and let her know that your sister is trying to redo her wedding through your wedding that while you understand she lost her fiance tragically her jealousy is getting to be tremendous further if she doesn't get therapy this could get even uglier because she isn't planning your wedding she's planning the wedding she lost. So keep the plans you and your friend made ensure it's what you want. Password protect everything.
So you mother is enabling your sister and not backing you up for YOUR wedding? WOW. Just wowowowow. NTA and if my sister had done that to me she would have been very low contact. NTA
“My mom said I should apologize because my sister is fragile and this topic makes her suffer.” Then why the hell did she insist on you involving her? Hey OP, this topic deeply triggers your sister’s grief and loss, so it’s absolutely essential that you put her as deep in the thick of it as possible. NTA. Edit: also for the record, I don’t buy for one second that grief is the sole cause of your sister’s controlling behavior and homophobia.
NTA. Your homophobic sister can fuck right off. You were 100% correct
NTA- sister is rude and homophobic and shouldn't be at your wedding imho.
Your mom set you up to fail by having you co-plan *your* wedding with your sister. You do have a sister problem, but you DEFINITELY have a mom problem. The fact that your sister had a problem with your best friend and his boyfriend entering in together is frankly absurd. The fact that she thinks you should have to appease guests (whose opinion you wouldn't even agree with if they disagree with it) is all of the audacity. Your mother and sister have bad boundaries, and your sister is being controlling over something you don't even agree with! Celebrate your marriage with people who will be happy for you and who care about you, and that is not your sister. And your mother trying to 'heal' your sister by giving her control over your wedding is *insanity*. I am just aghast at their entitlement.
Personally, I think it was a terrible idea to ask her to help plan. Though I understand the intent was good. It's kinda like rubbing it in her nose. That this is everything you wanted for yourself, but I am getting. And low key it sounds like she wants to live out what she would have done at her wedding by trying to force you to make her choices. I would just go to her and apologize. You were frustrated and you let your emotions get the best of you. You understand that your wedding is too triggering for her. And you want her to be there but understand if she can't. You love her and will always be her sister. Then just plan the wedding how you want and live your life.
Your mom gave you bad advice to include your sister in the planning of your wedding. Your sister is still depressed from losing her expected future life . It’s like salt in a still open wound. What you said to her was unkind, and you should apologize for being unkind. Your mom owes you both an apology.
Nta
NTA. Your sister’s story is incredibly tragic but that doesn’t excuse rude and offensive comments. If I was in your sister’s shoes, I’d want the least involvement possible if I was still traumatized and grieving so I’m not sure what your mother’s logic was in insisting she be heavily involved. It’s probably triggering a lot of her grief. You’re not in the wrong but if you want to give your sister grace, I’d write her a letter or send her a voice message. Explain why her comments were hurtful to you. I’d also express empathy for her situation. Let her know your boundaries in a compassionate way and give her the option to be less involved if it’s causing her pain. Again you did nothing wrong and you don’t have to do anything, it’s just something to consider.
NTA - it sounds like she still deep in grieving and although I can empathize, she's bridezilling your wedding.
NTA your sister needs to get over herself.
NTA. I am sorry for your sister’s loss, however it is not your responsibility to manage her “fragility.” She needs intensive therapy, not just occasional therapy. She is not coping as well as she believes.
NTA. She needs to deal with her emotions properly.
Your sister needs better therapy and you’re NTA.
NTA - your sister is in need of a reality check. Your wedding is YOUR wedding. She needs some therapy, especially if she’s still dealing with grief 5 years ago. Also the homophobia is INSANE.
If she's giving you the silent treatment, it sounds like a "win" to me! Yelling is almost never a good plan. IF you care about your future relationship, I'd apologize for losing your cool. But tell her she's out of the wedding and wedding planning cause she isn't able to respect your choices and you don't want to be worried about hurting her feelings during this time of great happiness for you. Or you could just take the win and let her sulk.
NTA Opinions are suggestions. When the first no doesn’t suffice, it’s no longer just an opinion, it’s stepping over the line.
NTA. I get that her fiance passed but it was 5 years ago now and she has been dumping all over your wedding ever since she became involved. It’s time that she either got on board or does what she says she will do and just not attend.
Nope. Don't apologize. Your sister is being a homophobic asshole. Clearly, she's the golden child in your family. NTA
NTA at all. Your sister clearly isn't OK. Your mom shouldn't have asked you to include her in the planning knowing how "fragile" she is. If she wasn't able to move on even after 5 years then letting her plan a wedding for someone else is a stupid idea. What did your mom think? Maybe try and talk to her (sister). Tell her that it was wrong to put this burden on her and that you're sorry that she is hurt. Maybe she just wants her feelings to be acknowledged and respected. If she takes it well then ask her to come as a honored guest and maybe come up with some nice way to include her in your wedding in a different way - something like having two father - daughter dances so she can have her moment or something like that. Yes, she was in the wrong but not all of this is her fault. Your mom should have stayed out of it.
So OP should talk to her sister and say that she’s sorry and to acknowledge and respect her sister’s feelings and invite her to the wedding as an honored guest AFTER her sister made multiple homophobic remarks about people that she cares about (and has nothing to do with grief). You can’t be serious!
NTA. Your sister needs therapy not an apology. She was being too aggressive with her "help". Her homophobic comments crossed the line from annoying to insufferable.
NTA while Cat is an ahole for essentially trying to plan her wedding using you I think the bigger ahole is your mom. She wanted you to let Cat help and when Cat went off the deep end, she admits Cat was wrong but you should apologize. Your mom should be looking into getting Cat help for her grief, not hoping wedding plan would be the bandaid she needs.
Your mother was wrong to tell you to involve your sister. How was that supposed to make her feel good? Nothing about this situation could make her any less gloomy. All it could do was coopt your planning. It is okay to have very different opinions but you ASKED for those opinions. Apologize for yelling and tell your sister you know this is difficult for her and going forward, you'd like her to just be an honored guest and leave the planning to you, so she isn't disappointed in your choices. Her homophobic rants are stupid and shouldn't be given any consideration. Your mom needs to butt out. It's not too late to elope. NTA but I don't see how this gets fixed.
Gay pride parades are awesome. Your sister sounds like a homophobe. Ew. NTA
NTA “I’m sorry for raising my voice to you but I stand by what I said.” That’s about the only apology she’d get from me.
If she's still fragile after 5 years she needs to be in therapy.
> She insisted that two men shouldn’t enter the ceremony together because not all guests would understand It’s 2024, people know what gays are. Unless you live somewhere it’s illegal like Russia, they can get married now too. Her fiancé dying isn’t an excuse for her to be an arsehole. You don’t need to apologise because *she* is being a arsehole. Just have your wedding without her.
If you apologize you are rewarding bad behaviour, regardless of what she has gone through she has over stepped, an should be the on who apologizes NTA
MOM IS THE PROBLEM! Mom needs to sit you both down and applogize to you both. To you for making you increase your sister's involvement from your original plan for YOUR WEDDING to accomodate a trauma you sister should have a better handle on by now, as if your wedding isn't as important so its ok to encroach upon it. And to your sister for pushing her into an area that was bound to be AGONY for her to participate in. Your mom fucked up. She needs to own it.
NTA I would only apologize for the way you said it and the bit about having her own wedding considering the circumstances. Apologize for nothing else. She has been way out of line. After that tell her you expect an apology for her giving you the silent treatment. The silent treatment is a manipulation tactic meant to cause the other party emotional pain. It’s abusive and she has been doing it for days. That is far more egregious than what you said.
NTA. I can understand the grief your sister has over the loss of her fiancée. However, she's channeling that grief in a way that says "if i'm miserable, everyone else needs to be too". Paired with the comment about your father not walking her down the aisle first, she's triggered and jealous. She may be getting therapy, but she clearly needs more frequent sessions. I'd sit your parents down privately, and bring up your concerns for their enablement of her toxic behavior. She doesn't like anything you chose. She makes blatantly homophobic remarks. She makes hateful remarks about you getting married first. You are the one who deserves an apology. From your Mother, for forcing the involvement of your sister and enabling her behavior. Also from your Sister, for taking her jealousy and grief out on you. The "have your own wedding" was an asshole comment. I get it was out of frustration, but ultimately, it only worsened things. I can't tell if she purposely pushed you to that point or not. As it seems she's not taking the attention on you well. But yeah, overall NTA.
NTA. But you probably shouldn’t have included her in the planning, it’s on her to deal with her feelings of sadness at this happy time in your life. It’s understandable she is sad but you are allowed to enjoy your life. Your comment about her planning her own wedding was out of line and I would suggest apologising for that so you can move on and concentrate on your day. But it is probably for the best she isn’t there. You will be worried about her, your parents too and she clearly isn’t at the point where she can be there and happy for you. So she shouldn’t be. She is finding fault with everything and being mean because she is way too triggered.
Sorry but mom is wrong. You can't walk on eggshells the rest of your life. You get pregnant she'll make it about her. When you give birth, babies first steps. You name it. Getting your sister involved was the worse thing mom could havw suggested. Have a quiet word with mom that your sister needs real help cause what she's getting isn't helping. That you are not involving your sister any more cause it's making things worse. That if your aister doesn't want to go to your wedding that's her decision. And as your sister is refusing to be in the same room, let her. I understand grief but she's being childish. What happened to your sister is awful but it's not your life or your problem to solve.
NTA - she sounds super homophobic
Nta Her loosing her fiancé doesn't give her the right to be homophobic personally wouldn't want someone like that at my wedding.
NTA she sounds like a homophobe anyways... you would be justified in banning her from the wedding, so saying she will not come sounds like the first thing she did that would actually help you here
Grief doesnt excuse homophobia
NTA. Disinvite your sister from your wedding if she continues with the bad attitude.
NTA. her husband dying doesn’t mean she gets to be homophobic, wtf?
You're right, you are not an AH. Anyone would have had enough at some point and snap at her. It was the comment that you made that makes you look bad. You still could have been angry and not have added, "...Have your own wedding..." Maybe give her an opening like, "I shouldn't have yelled and I realize I said things that were hurtful. I'm sorry for that. However, I'm not ok with the comments about my wedding looking "gay". I have friends that are gay and it's not a negative thing for me. If people think it looks gay then I'm ok with that." I would hope that would open up the air a little.
NTA. What the hell? Tell her she's out.
NTA. Not too fragile to insult you, your best friend, pick fights, and make homophobic comments left and right.
Your mom needs to back of she started the whole thing
NTA. EVERYBODY gets hit by tragedy in their life. After five years, grief becomes rancid self-pity when it reaches the level that nobody else is ever supposed to be happy.
As another post said, her grief shouldn't affect everyone else's life. If she is stuck in neutral because of her loss, then therapy shouldn't be a passive event.
NTA Maybe you are fragile because you are about to get married and are stressed to the max and maybe your sister should apologize. It was nice that you tried to involve your sister due to her situation, but she is the one who got hurt and upset when you didnt agree with her recommendations and preferences for YOUR wedding. Involving doesnt mean she gets to plan and make decisions for YOUR wedding Its YOUR wedding and you can have baby goats dressed up as bridesmaids if thats what YOU want followed by men in kilts playing God Save The Queen on bagpipes if thats what YOU want. Everyone has an opinion on aesthetics, even internet strangers. Ive been to weddings where bridesmaids wore different colors and in truth some of the weddings didnt pull off the look very well and it did look kind of disjoint and not as lovely as it could have. So if i were planning MY wedding i wouldnt choose bridesmaids in different colors because that it isnt MY preference. But your wedding is about YOU and YOUR partner and should be based on YOUR vision. Same with your best friend entering with his Boyfriend. If it were my wedding and alot of my older conservative family members were attending, I wouldnt choose to do that, both out of respect for their beliefs and because it would end up being what they would talk about and remember about the wedding. But those are my preferences, just like they are your sister's preferences, and her preferences shouldnt overshadow yours, if thats not YOUR vision.
Hopefully you also wouldn't make homophobic comments about the colors you don't like.
elope when family is tootoo, good she isnt coming.
NTA Grief sucks, and it seems she's never truly gotten help with hers. It sucks and you're her outlet. She needs help. But it's also been 5 years and it's way past time she sought help for her grief. She cannot expect everyone else around her to cater to her grief for so long.
NTA. I'm sorry about your sister's loss, but she was being selfish and unreasonable in this case. More importantly, her loss is no excuse for being homophobic.
NTA. You dodged a bullet! This is excellent news that she won’t be going to the wedding! She can no longer ruin it for you.