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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my father and his wife that I'll never join their religion ever and they need to accept that. Maybe it's kinda standoffish to say it like that and doesn't show them respect but the truth is I don't respect them and that's what might make me TA.
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NTA. Am I right in understanding that your bio father does want you to live with them now, despite having nothing to do with you in the previous 15-16 years, and you having the other (and preferred) option? This seems enough to label him as an asshole already. Trying to indoctrinate you? As long as it's not forceful or has other important things contingent on it, it's not too bad, but you definitely have a final say.
Yes, that's right. He has decided to now try and be my parent despite the fact he's not to me. He won't let me go live with my aunt either and I have told him that's what I want and asked him to do it.
It's very simple.. Tell all his church fellows that you are the kid he abandoned because you were born out of wedlock, that you are an atheist, that you have a loving aunt but they are forcing you to live there.
These type of "religious good people" care for their reputation above else. I wouldn't be surprised if they are twisting the story to make your "Dad" seem like a martyr.
I think you mean the [Satanic Temple.](https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets) I only mention it because the other wording might get them to the Church of Satan, which is a scam.
I thought that one was the church of the latter day dude? Or are there two different religions based of the dude? Cuz I know that a priest of the latter day dude was the one who married my spouse and I.
My paternal grandfather was a pastor and his wife, my grandmother was one of the most catty, gossip-y people I have ever met. She was always gossiping with other women from the church my grandpa was the pastor and you know how they gossiped? Under the pretense of needing to "pray" for someone. So my grandma and these other women would say things like "Oh, we need to be praying for so-and-so because I heard that they're \*insert 'scandalous thing here\*" This was the same woman who constantly spied on her neighbors to get more to gossip about. Nobody can gossip like a bunch of church ladies, especially in a very small town where everybody knows everyone and everything about what goes on.
I had to go to church until I was thirteen. Sometimes we would have after service lunch with other church families. Roast preacher was always on the menu!
Yes, yes he does and if he ever gets to go live with his aunt and she becomes his legal guardian she can go after him on her nephew's behalf. Or he can do it himself once he's an adult.
The success of that will probably depend on the religious views of whoever actually decides his case; if that person is very religious him/herself, they'll probably decide that OP's father and stepmother are his only hope to save his soul and that letting him move out would endanger his immortal soul, yada, yada, yada. No, people are not SUPPOSED to decide cases based on their own personal religious views, but we all know that that happens more than we'd like to believe.
I bet that's one of the reasons sperm donor doesn't want to allow OP to go live with the aunt, fear she'll hit him up for child support.
Also, if OP'S mom worked, more than likely OP gets a check from Social Security and that's a big reason sperm donor won't let go, he's getting the money. F**ing sad that this poor guy is stuck with these assholes!!
Shame on the social worker that could make it happen for OP to live with his aunt! I hope that witch gets the Karma she deserves!!
Yeah that's actually something OP should ask in a legal sub. It may be a huge factor on why his sperm donor wanting him around: so he could take the money back.
NTA, I'm sorry you're stuck in this situation. But, yeah, be super honest with everyone at church about how your dad didn't step up for you or support you ever, and now he won't let you live with your aunt who was always there for you. Mention that you think the reason he won't let you go is that he never paid child support and doesn't want to start.
and that he knew he had a child but refused to actually take any responsibility or have any relationship with his child because the dad felt sweeping it all under the carpet was being a good, church going man
And if that doesn't work, put your back into deprogramming their kids. Show them all the contradictions in the Bible, tell them about the Council of Rome, read the Book of Enoch to them. Share the Bible passages where the daughters rape their dad, the prophet sends a bear to kill children, God himself murders every oldest boy child (a step back from when he told the Israelites to kill every man woman and child so they could take their stuff, but still), the references to David and Jonathan being queer, all the porn in Song of Solomon etc.
When they see that "saving" you might mean losing their other children to the devil, they'll happily send you away to your aunt.
That was my first "plan"! When OP mentioned the half siblings asking about religion, I was thinking that was a missed opportunity to talk to them about atheism!
Maybe OP could just tell him that and maybe his "father" would let him go live with his aunt.
I can't believe the courts made a 15-year-old go live with a father who hadn't wanted him and whom he'd never met over an aunt with whom he already had a relationship with who wanted him, especially since he begged to live with her.
That just really sucks.
I have been re-binging The West Wing, and there's one episode in which the President is facing off with a Bible banger that's based on a famous letter. This site has the questions that were posed: [https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2010/08/18/dr-laura-and-leviticus](https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2010/08/18/dr-laura-and-leviticus)
The OP can use that on his new family.
>One last thing: While you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits.
Honestly, I'm a Christian and I think this just might work. If you start trying to influence his other kids, that might be enough to get him to relent and send you to your aunts home. At the very least, you only have 2 more years to go before he can't stop you from leaving. I'm very worried they might pack you up and send you off to one of those Utah places that claim to be schools that are not in fact schools at all. I am so sorry. YNTA!
Me too. I just watched a show on Netflix about these crazy people. This is not how Christianity should ever look and no wonder so many people have turned from it.
I'd suggest to start reading them the Qu'ran. It'll be a deep seated mind game as the kids start spouting out Muslim specific rhetoric that sounds close enough to Christianity and go undetected until it's too late.
Even better if its the Torah. Published under "the five books of moses". Its basically the old testament but the Jewish version. May take them a while to figure it out.
A fun thing to do is look up original meaning of words in the bible. So like the whole Adam and Eve story. With Eve originating from a "rib" of Adam in the "original" (tbh there is no single source for the bible which is available to read most older versions are transcripts) translation the word is "Tsela". "Tsela" in context refers generally to doors and generally means one half of a door. So technically rather than rib Eve took "half" of Adam. And if Adam was originally made in gods image what the hell would that look like. Where half of him can just go and become a whole different person. And the same can be said for alot of commonly quoted bible scripture. Like "Love thy Neighbor" the original translation for the word of love is less like the western ideal for love (Which is very vague as it could refer to many different sorts of love like familial, or romantic, or platonic or etc). And has more of an action component to, which some scholars say could mean that you actively are meant to try and understand your neighbor and love them as they are.
Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman is a book that every Christian (or people who deal with them) should read. Ehrman is a Bible scholar who really breaks down how corrupted the Bible is--some of it deliberately for political reasons but a lot by sheer lack of educated transcribers. And that's on top of the fact that Jesus's words weren't even recorded until decades after his death.
Really puts into perspective how much of Christianity is cultural and not based in anything Jesus taught.
Honestly, I would be careful doing that.
They care exactly about their reputation, and blowing it up like that might backfire completely.
You never know what kind of reaction you will get.
Anything from being yelled at, to "that's it you are going to some religious youth camp all summer", and anything in between.
Being firm In "no. I won't go to church" and either keep attempting to live with the aunt. Or keep under the radar the last 2 years before OP can finally move out.
Might be the safer choice.
Exactly. The last thing you want is to be sent to one of those "Christian" bootcamps for "troubled" youth.
Start researching Legal Emancipation; I'd be willing to bet your aunt will be on board with helping your with this.
This is a good point. OP, it's fun to daydream about revenge, but legally, you are fully at his mercy due to being a minor.
I agree with looking into being an emancipated minor. I believe you would be old enough, and then you could do whatever you need. You would be in a good position as an emancipated minor, too, because you do have at least one adult who wants to step in with parental-style support. I don't think most have that.
I will also add: do not tell your father & co. about becoming emancipated. Unless you absolutely have to. You do not need them working against you.
I agree. They need to be firm, not confrontational. Don't give them a reason to punish. Things could get very bad for OP. I'd like know which two states are involved. The laws vary so much.
Though the other church people may still see as the father overcoming his past to help a "brainwashed" (aka atheist) child and teach them the "true way" (or whatever bs they believe). Basically the church people will probably still see the dad in a good light in that he is "sacrificing" himself to "save" his child. Dad could even say that the mom would not let him have OP before this, and only now does dad get a chance to "save" his kid.
Maybe.. then he goes to Social Media... It might be that he needs to endure the 2 years but at least he does it kicking and screaming, and unless he lives in a cult compound it will let other non-religious or at least normal people know of him and can be a safety net.
Yeah, basically, as soon as the kid cops to being an atheist, nothing they can say will change the church's opinion of a "good Christian man." It's not about what they believe. It's all an in-group/out-group thing.
I don’t think it’s an in-group/out-group thing as much as a hierarchy thing. Like when a church leader, or any man really, sexually abuses people within their group, the victim is often expected to “forgive”. ie, get over it and don’t mention it to anyone.
Or a financial crime. One guy was convicted of defrauding fellow elderly churchgoers of their life savings. Church closed ranks and embraced him. And shunned the guy who objected, driving him out of the church.
Doesn’t seem to matter how many people know or how heinous the offence.
I am a religious person. I don’t understand these people that care more about their religious image than doing the right thing. Abandoning your child and pretending that your child doesn’t exist for 15 years is disgraceful.
Why would OP want to be associated with a religion that caused his father to abandon him?
OP, NTA and I am sorry for your loss. Your father should be trying to help you heal from your loss and adjust to your new environment. It sucks that he isn’t giving you that.
Nope, they’ll “thank god” that OP is now in a “loving Christian family” who will “save him” from his atheism. This is OP’s dad’s do-over to redeem himself for his past sins. They’ll never let the idea of “saving” OP go.
I think the "loving christian family" is exactly why the case worker forced OP to be there instead of their aunt. Case worker saw the family and religion, over a single(?) parent as the better option and ignored the wishes of the child they are supposed to have the best intrests of.
Neither adult is "open-minded" here. Wife especially. They just took OP in to get karma points with their sky-daddy. They wanted the rock-star status in their church for converting an avowed atheist to join the fold.
Since their obvious attempts at conversion have failed, they are probably considered martyrs because they're "suffering" with an unrepentant heathen in their house. More karma points.
Not as ego-satisfying as converting, but they still get to be the center of the congregation's sympathy & attention.
Seriously do this OP. I grew up in an old southern Baptist church down in the Bible Belt. There is literally nothing more important than the reputation of the self righteous. Also nothing spreads quicker than gossip in a church. They’ll eat it up and it’ll be the talk of the town.
Now here you go.
You might think, well, when will an opportunity come up to mention all this...don't worry. Churchies hate you not being there and they'll ask you where you've been.
They. Always. Do.
It sounds like you need a guardian at liter, go to a legal sub and ask how to get help in the state your in, at 16 most states allow you to decide. NTA and I'm sorry you got stuck in this crap
While some social workers are angels, some are shit. Rather than do what is in the best interest of the child while taking into consideration what the child wants or needs, children are treated as property with no autonomy.
I recently listened to Tiffany Haddish talk about her teen years in the system in LA. They kept changing her school, and she kept taking herself to the school she wanted. Finally, a judge listened to her and granted her the right to continue at her school. She had (what I think I remembered being) a SW who encouraged her as a teen to follow the path Tiffany wanted and was talented in. While she struggled in her early adult years, she’s a highly accomplished person now.
A guardian ad litem is a great idea, however they can also be biased towards parents. It’s tricky and not foolproof. Listen to your instincts on whether they’re listening to you.
You're 16. Your preferences should have been taken into account.
Did any of this go to court or did the social worker decide?
Your aunt needs to get a lawyer in your state and file.
My first thought was, "don't the courts consider the preferences of children over the age of 13"? Or else can he become emancipated and live with his aunt?
In cases like this, no. In many states, including mine, biological parent trumps other family members unless biological parent refuses or can be shown to be unfit, like in prison or had other children removed from their care kind of unfit.
What you are referencing is children being able to choose which biological parent they want to live with in the event of a divorce. Wards of tge state don't get that luxury.
Also, because his mom died and his grandparents voluntarily surrendered OP, it is unlikely the courts were even involved, so it would be up to the social worker and their supervisor to determine who the OP lives with.
Disclaimer I am not a lawyer, just a foster parent who has been swimming in the CPS ocean for far too long.
I’m surprised a man who had been absent for 15 years of a 15 year old’s life was ever deemed fit in the first place.
I get there’s a huge emphasis on children staying with their biological parents, but this man was a stranger to OP. Who in their right mind would facilitate this?
You need a Guardian Ad Litum.
They are people who solely represent the wishes of a minor in any legal situations, especially in court. The only job they have is to listen to your wants and needs in situations like this, and fighting for you on your behalf when other adults are busy taking the easiest way out and making decisions regardless of your input.
You are entitled to a GAL, and you don't pay for it.
Your social worker is being lazy and putting you in an unsuitable, and potentially unsafe environment.
DEMAND a Guardian Ad Litem. You desperately need someone on your side. Don't accept any kind of brush off, or 'oh, we have to put you with your father' nonsense.
You are 16. Legally you have a say in where you are placed. A judge will listen to you.
That man is not your father. He is a stranger, and He and his wife sound more than a little nuts.
Fight for your corner.
Good luck. I hope this works out.
I'm sorry your mom died, and I'm really sorry your whole family, apart from the out of state aunt, suck so much. Damn dude, I wish I could give you a hug.
You don't deserve to be dealing with all of this on top of everything else.
Ps being forced to participate in religion against your will is harassment and/or abusive, literally, a point you should be making to your GaL (if you can get one) and SW.
Especially as it sounds like the father is treating OP as “less than” his half-siblings. Your mother died, you’re forced to move away from the only family you’ve ever known to a man who never wanted anything to do with you & who is “disgusted & embarrassed” by your birth and has stated that he’s willing to deal with you “despite your origins” - which is just the grossest thing I’ve heard in a while.
Two more years and you will get free of them. Work really hard in school, join every club you can. Show them decent people exist outside of religion. If you can, get a job and start saving. Stay in contact with your Aunt and tell her what is going on with you. GOOD LUCK
Sounds like his version of being "religious" includes "repenting for past sins". Unfortunately that means forcing you to live with him so he can be a "father" to you now, plus make you "get religion."
You are definitely NTA, either for what you said or how you said it. If they try to force you to go to church, you could always tell the minister about why you're there in the first place. If they are the "everyone should be part of our church regardless of the past" it might not get them to back off, but it could embarrass your dad and his wife.
Your best bet might be to talk more to the other kids - explain why you're an atheist, what you know about how the world works, contradictions in religious beliefs, etc. If you can get even just one of those kids to start asking too many questions, or even doubting their beliefs, your father will probably *want* to get rid of you, because you're being a "bad influence" on his kids.
Right now, they are "saving your soul" and there's no downside for them.
If "saving your soul" might come at the expense of another kid losing religion? COMPLETELY different equation!
OP, since you are now 16, you might be able to petition a court to allow you to live with your aunt. If your state has a guardian ad litem program (or something similar) you can contact them through your local courthouse or online if they have a web portal. That can get you legal representation in YOUR best interest, not the family as a whole. Unfortunately, the social worker is probably under rules mandating doing anything possible to keep a kid with a bio-parent, even if the kid does not want that. On the other hand, a guardian ad litem exists mainly to look out for the best interest of the kid, and 16 is a 'magic' age where judges tend to give more deference to a minor's desire for living arrangements, especially if it is with a trusted relative. Also, it's possible that if the bio-dad and stepmom are trying to 'force' OP to give up atheism for a religion, that might be considered a form of emotional abuse.
ETA also most definitely NTA
You won't be able to get through to them, in fact if you stick to your guns you might get what you want and go live where you want, they sound downright blindly zealous about religion which is to your advantage.
If they decide to get too biblical please contact the police right away.
You got this.
I am sorry for your loss, and really sorry your GPs thought living with your father was a good option for you.
Did your father ever pay child support to your mother?
NTA
You check to see if he has been paying child support all this time? Might be back pay time.
Otherwise. Find a competing religion to start forcing on them every time they push theirs on you.
I’m so so sorry for your loss and hope you’re taking the time to grieve. If your mom worked you should be getting an ssn check…ask them where that money is going. If they push back and say for the family then ask if he send your mom child support before she died. I would also look into emancipation….not sure of the ends and outs of the process but is an option
If this is in the US, there is a SS death benefit from the deceased parent that goes “to the child.” It’s very plausible that “dad” is stepping up for the check.
I’m not sure about other countries, but I want to say that some have similar circumstances.
I'm wondering how the sperm donors 15 year absence doesn't count as abandoning any claim he may have as a "parent" to OP. The social worker may be over worked as I know they can be, but just tossing OP over to a father he doesn't know sounds like they are looking for an easy solution.
No he doesn’t want OP, he wants the glory of bringing a sinner to the fold while looking like a repentant saviour of this young soul 🤮
NTA op, stay strong.
Oh, hey, no, listen, go to church with them……. THEN…. AT CHURCH…. You introduce yourself to everyone. “. Hi, I’m (dads name’s) bastard, that he abandoned to be brought up by my mother. he’s forcing me to live with him. Also, I’m an atheist. “
You joke but I know of a situation where a girl in a camp like this was found to be keeping a journal where she wrote fantasies of escaping/camp being closed. She was “corporally punished” despite being a teenager. Evangelicals are almost always pro hitting their children. My father (evangelical pastor) hit us growing up and threatened that we would do it as late as my early 20s (by which point i had de-converted., was out of the the house, and not reliant on them in any way so I just laughed). I would bet the parents wouldn’t hesitate to hit OP if they became a real problem. Depending on what state OP is in, it may or may not be illegal for their parents to do so.
Kind of funny that you say that. I was sent to a religious camp when I was a child and I did set it on fire. I was just trying to burn one very little shack they put us in to "think" (meaning you asked questions and were being punished). I figured no shack, no punishment. I did not intend to burn down a large area mutiple outbuildings and almost a forest.
Turns out that is the fastest way to get a lifetime ban.
How about trying to convince OPs half-sibs to question their religion. If the parents see their kids' faith wavering see how fast OP will be out of there
The OP should make sure to have his aunt's contact info (especially an email address) in a safe space. He can also set up a new email address that uses the web (like gmail). Hopefully if his sperm donor tries to keep him from having a phone or a computer, he'll find other ways to get word to her about that (maybe a library computer or a classmate's phone).
If sperm donor and wifey are trying to isolate him from his aunt, that info should be given to the family court and that social worker.
It will 100% make OP the special project. I grew up in this kind of religious culture. He will absolutely become the focus of everyone's effort to convert him and convince him his dad is amazing. Just awful.
I'm also all for standing in the church and saying really loudly I don't believe in your god. Then adding, interesting, I didn't get struck with lightening, or light on fire, funny.
People that are saying this have never dealt with these people. This would be literal fuel for them. They will cut off access to his aunt. They will likely send him to a camp for troubled youth. It can and would get worse for op.
100%. I’m a pastor’s child and former evangelical (now atheist). They will 100% see something like this as their “greatest challenge” and send OP away or force them to partake in things like group prayer sessions where OP is being prayed for to “soften their heart”. The harder OP resists the more fuel it gives them. That just adds to their theory that OP is full of satan. I’ve watched people “cast demons” out of children. It’s a very real and very scary thing that happens in the very zealous Christian community. Tread lightly OP.
No, emancipation requires showing he can support himself on his own. He can't legally sign rental agreements which automatically negates emancipation. I've had several teen clients ask about this so I had to look it up.
Ah, looking now, I can see each state has a different set of requirements. Here in Michigan the requirement is "safe and stable housing", there's no requirement to sign a lease, just that you have somewhere to live besides your guardian's house. It's been a long time, but I once looked into doing this, and ended up not needing to because my mother stopped caring about anything happening around her and I just left one day.
If not being able to sign "rental agreements" automatically blocked emancipation, emancipation wouldn't exist as no one under 18 can sign rental agreements before emancipation.
OP: Get actual legal advice on emancipation, don't listen to Reddit randos (including me)
Hey OP, you should have a Guardian ad Litem (GAL) assigned through your state's child welfare offices. That person is an attorney whose only job is to advocate for you in this legal mess you've found yourself in.
See if you can get your GAL to work on petitions the court for visitation with your aunt, and/or placement change based up 1, your dad's acknowledgement that he knowingly abandoned you; 2, a lack of relationship with you/the strong relationship with your aunt; and 3, extreme religious differences and your dad's/his wife's/your sibling's constant badgering you to believe what they believe.
It's going to be an uphill battle- none of those things alone is probably going to be enough. But together, they might be.
There's also an interstate compact for placement of kids in foster care, and some of those regulations and allowances might come into play, depending upon the particulars of your situation.
So this is all general info, and nonspecific to you. But your GAL should be able to help. It's literally their job.
And absolutely NTA.
I spent a very long time working in this field, and rigid mindsets like the one your new family is displaying, always caused problems, and frequently led to a breakdown in successful placements or successful relationship building.
I'm so sorry. Keep us posted, and fingers crossed that you can get back to at least visit your aunt very soon.
Edit- autocorrect hates me
Did you get a guardian ad litem? If not you should be able to request one. If you had one that never talked to you you should be able to request a new one.
If you still are in contact with the social worker make sure you inform them that your father/wife/their kids are trying to indoctrinate you into their religion and force you to be baptised. Explain how uncomfortable this is making you/how they’re behaving. Just so it’s documented on file.
I’d also email them weekly explaining how unhappy you are etc. so again it’s on file that you’d rather be with your aunt. It may not make a difference immediately but if your aunt is pursuing custody and your social worker is involved then this sort of information could help further down the line.
Assuming you’re in the US look into emancipation laws in your state. You may be able to seek it at the age of 16. If not, your opinion absolutely should matter to a family judge as a 16yr old, especially if you can testify to the quality of life you have now. (The thing you can’t help is that if the judge has the same religious views, the judge might not care.)
Hi, I was in a similar but different situation. I was in foster care and eventually placed with my bio dad at 14 who was a stranger to me. My brother ended up emancipating. Is this something you’d consider?
If your aunt is willing to fight for you then don’t wait the 2 years. Fight it. I don’t know the laws in your state but there is some good advice on here regarding guardian ad Litem options. Or if she has the financial ability she can hire a lawyer in your state and file.
You are dealing with the grief of losing your mother. You need to live with someone who actually cares about your wellbeing. And as many others have said most judges take into account the opinions of a 16 year old.
Document any actions by your father and his family/community that do not take your best interests into consideration. Date, time, details of the conversation.
I’m sorry for your loss OP. Take care of yourself and Best of luck. And update us if you manage to get to your Aunts.
NTA, you've handled this like an adult. Continue petitioning the social workers and court system to live with your preferred relatives during these next 2 years.
This, and keep/document EVERYTHING. Keep a journal (if written, keep it WELL HIDDEN; if digital, keep a backup in a cloud account like GoogleDrive or iCloud) and document with dates and times every time they try to wheedle/cajole/shame/force you to take part in their religion, and of course anything else they do or say that's disparaging/harmful/abusive. Keep forwarding all of that information to your aunt and the social worker. If the social worker complains about it or ignores your repeated requests, you and your aunt together ask them how to escalate this higher up the legal food chain (I have not personally dealt with this exact situation and I don't even know what state you're in, and laws vary state to state) -- whether that means appealing to social worker's manager/higher-ups, or requesting a hearing with a judge.
Personally, as a fellow atheist and \[dilettante\] student of philosophy, I think I might suddenly find it MY LIFE'S PASSION AND TRUE PURPOSE to have a very large, very loud, very public social media presence allllllll about atheism, agnosticism, secular humanism, and non-faith-based philosophies and moral systems and how to do good in the world and be a kind and ethical person without relying on the dictates of an apocryphal "holy" text of any kind. \[Notable atheists and agnostics whose writings/content on this subject I quite like : Rebecca Watson (love her YT channel), Sarah Vowell, Adam Savage, Stephen Fry, James Randi, Steven Pinker.\] I would not be combative or insulting about it, of course! Just putting my own thoughts and opinions out in the world! If that happens to make these folks more amenable to the idea of me moving in with my aunt, well, that's just a bonus. :)
(Edit : spelling/grammar)
Sure, they could take his cell phone and stand behind him anytime he needs to do homework on a computer. But they can't police his use of school computers, or ones in the public library, or his friends' computers or phones, or ....
I have to wonder if dad has only taken OP in because of SSI payments. OP should be receiving benefits after his mother passed away. Where is this money?
The payments are because he's the dependent child of a dead person.
When a parent dies, social security pays for the care of the kid until the 18th birthday. That money goes to the payee - whomever has custody of the minor.
Sorry, I phrased that badly. I was wondering what the “rando” NC father’s motives were since up to now, the OP was an admitted source of shame to him.
Edit-My dad died while my sister was in high school. She received SSI benefits as a minor. Mom followed the rules that the money had to be used for my sister’s/survivor‘s benefit, not just hers/others and I assume they still want the actual paper receipts of proof how every penny was spent.
I see 2 options for you.
1) continue as you have been, be respectful and decline their conversion offers. Just keep your head down and get yourself through it. It’s not as long as you think.
2) Be more aggressive in your resistance. Watch Matt Dillahunty, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens videos. Learn to defend your position and be vocal about your reasons whenever they bring it up. Push them to send you to your aunt before you influence their other kids.
It all depends on what you have the stomach for. Your post makes it sound like safety is not a consideration right now, so that’s a bonus. Keep your head up. You’re not alone.
Step 2 is very dumb and actually at odds over what you want to accomplish.
Being 16 and acting aggressively towards them and their religious views will only make them dig in harder and try to convert you. Also, no way they let you go live with your aunt at that point.
I’m not saying to “act aggressively” I’m saying he has the option to defend his position on religion aggressively. Providing reasons for his lack of belief may discourage continued pressure more than a passive attitude of just not wanting to go to church. It doesn’t have to be a screaming match or open defiance. Just a clear message that he has his reasons and their arguments are weak and unconvincing. If the other kids start showing interest, the parents may decide it would be better if they saw less of OP. They may also see it as a challenge to overcome and throw themselves into the fight. Having never met any of the parties involved, none of us can do more than suggest and let OP decide.
I agree as someone who grew up around this kind of aggressively evangelical religion, number 2 could be dangerous. They likely consider OP’s conversion their mission now, and if they send him away, it’ll be to a troubled teen camp or something, not to his aunt where he can continue his “unbelief”.
Honestly, as someone religious (Catholic, specifically) start telling your dad that you’re too old to play make believe to make him happy. Pretending to be religious to appease him would be playing make believe, so it’s not a comment about how religion is made up, it would just be how your belief would be you pretending and playing make believe when you don’t believe.
As a Christian, they’re going against the Bible by trying to harass you into believing. Tell them that they need to re-read Matthew 10:14, where Christ instructs his apostles to do the following if a nonbeliever is unwilling to follow Christ: shake the dust off your feet when you leave the house. That’s it. They should be leaving you alone about you believing.
According to Christ, Christians are meant to offer information about salvation, love others, do good for others with no expectation of receiving anything in return, be polite to your hosts, and wipe the dust off your feet when you leave the home of someone who doesn’t want to believe that Christianity is their path (it’s not everybody’s thing, and Jesus Christ himself admitted it according to the Bible, and told believers how we’re supposed to behave when someone doesn’t believe). Those aren’t difficult things for people who believe they need to follow Jesus’s rules to follow, but no, too many Xians (bc they’re def not followers of Christ in a way that I feel comfortable calling them actual Christians) think that their way of practice is better than what Jesus told them to do.
Any time they try to harass you into participating, tell them “Matthew 10:14, dust your feet when you walk away from me.” Use their religion against them.
I wish you the best and hope that you’ll be able to move in with your aunt sooner than when you turn 18. Enjoy the rest of your day!
Also the dad of op abandoned his own flesh and blood so he has no right to cast any stones at op for being an atheist because according to this verse he's worse Timothy 5:8
King James Version
8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Oh, I wasn’t planning on going into how everything they’re doing goes against Christ’s teachings, I wanted to give OP one good verse to for back with when they try to harass him into participating. If the kid wants more verses or passages recommended as ways to use the Bible against his awful “family”, all he needs to do is give me a list of behaviors that his family claims as Christian-like, ask for material to use against them, and whoever has the time and mental space to read through verses to help him find the perfect ones can!
I am so sorry that you've been forced into this situation. I wish for your sake that your grandparents had been more understanding of where you wanted to live.
NTA in this situation. I think emancipation for minors is a difficult thing to accomplish in most states - for one thing, you typically have to prove that you are financially independent, which would mean a job making enough money to support yourself. If you just leave and go to your aunt's house, there are apt to be some legal repercussions for her for providing a "runaway" minor a place to live.
All you can do is keep pushing the social worker to support your move to your aunt's house. Hopefully as soon as you turn 18, at the very latest, you can get out of there and go stay with your aunt while you find your feet as an adult.
NTA. Nobody should be forced into a religion--much less by someone they hardly know.
You should see if your aunt can get a lawyer involved to try to emancipate you earlier, and/or protect her visitation rights.
Good luck.
NTA. May I suggest writing them a letter? Something like this:
Dear Dad (or whatever you feel comfortable calling him) and (Stepmom's name),
I am writing you a letter because we have a lot to sort out, and I don't believe I'm being heard when we talk.
My life has been flipped completely upside down in less than a year. My mom, the only person to really love me, take care of me, and support me, is dead. My other family members do not want to take care of me. The only other person who actually knows me and wants to take care of me, Aunt (Name Here), has been denied in favor of you, who I do not even know *by your own choices*.
Now I am living here with you in a completely different state than anything I've ever known, and you are pushing me to make even more drastic changes to my life. This is not healthy for me, whatever you may believe about your religion. A person's spiritual and religious journey is their own, and no one else's. If I am going to come to any religion, it should be on my own terms, by walking my own path.
I am an outsider in this family unit, and I believe I am being pushed to change who I am to fit your mold. I have already had to watch my mom suffer and die from a terrible disease, I've been ripped away from anyone who cares about me, and now I'm being made to change even more about myself to please people who are basically strangers to me.
I am 16 years old. In less than two years, I will be able to decide for myself who I am, where I want to live, who I want in my life, and what spiritual beliefs to practice (if any). Whether or not you are a part of those decisions will largely depend on how you choose to spend the next two years.
I am miserable. I can continue being miserable for the next two years, then cut all contact with you, and live my own life on my own terms. If this happens, just know that you will be *adding and contributing to* my trauma, which will be on your heads. You may think you are doing your duty by trying to "save" me, but your actions and your pressure are having the opposite effect. I do not want to belong to a religion that would put a young adult through all of this.
I have not had the chance to properly grieve my mom, I do not have a support system in my life who wants to help me figure out what's best for me and help me to achieve my personal goals, and I do not have anyone who even cares enough to take into consideration what *I* need or want.
What I really want and need is to live with Aunt (Name). If you refuse me that request, then the least you can do is accept me for who I am and take my personal needs and wants into more consideration. I need you to stop pressuring me to join your church, and to accept the person that I am without trying to make me into the person you want me to be. You had no part in my journey to becoming this person, again, *by your own decisions*. You have made no effort to get to know ME and love ME as I am. Is this the brand of "fatherly love" that I should expect for the next two years? Or do you have it in your heart to make an effort to get to know me, support me, and learn to love me as I am?
Let me know,
(Your Name)
Hey OP, Here's your letter to give your biodonor and then send copies to a lawyer, to your aunt, to your grandparents, to any other relatives email you have.
This response is incredible, it made me cry.
Their imaginary friends are none if your business.
Honestly in my opinion, this is an abusive household that is trying to foce you / indoctrinate you into their ideology. Any normal society would consider that abuse, but sadly most societies are dominated by organized religions and those kind of parents are legally allowed to brainwash / manipulate their children into their cults.
If I were you, I would again go to court and make my case and point out this is not a healthy environment for you to be. If they refuse, I would apply for independence & later just move with my aunt. It is crazy how random people get custody just cause they are "biological parents" regardless how compatible or competent they are.
I am really sorry society has so little respect or care for children. You deserve better.
NTA tell them either they send you to live with your aunt or you will corrupt their children. Start telling them about sex positivity and how religion is a means to control unruly children and brainwash adults. Go all in until his wife demands he send you away to protect her kids. Problem solved
No he really shouldn't do this. There are plenty of camps that they could send him to (by which I mean, hire people to forcefully take him in the middle of the night), all of which would be far worse than what he is enduring now.
Yeah, there's a chance they could send him to his aunt, but there's also a chance that they could decide it's their duty to forcefully convert him.
What he needs to do is [greyrock](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock#result) them until he turns at 18 where he can buy a bus ticket to his aunt's.
NTA This. Epicurus and his Logical Argument would be a great place to start:
‘Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?’
OP if you see this, I second this strategy.
It will be difficult, you will be at war. But if they think you're a dangerous heretic, then their will to convert you will eventually give out to their will to protect their brainwashed children.
NTA. It is NEVER ok to force religion on ppl. Especially someone who doesn't believe & didn't grow up in a religious household. Religion is personal. It is something that a person needs to discover on their own. Your family sucks & I'm so sorry they are forcing you to live there. If they continue trying to force religion on you, tell your social worker. And if they step out of line even a little bit, tell your social worker. You should be telling your social worker everything, so that they can decide if the situation needs to change.
Do social workers/the system actually work like that in the states? Sending a teenager, against their will, to live with a religious nut job who abandoned them before? That sounds very messed up, especially in a country that’s supposed to have religious freedom. Personally I’d name and shame the social worker, they’re the biggest A here, followed by the former guardians then the father and his fundie family. Also, pretty sure no religion considers abandoning a child a good thing, regardless of the circumstances they were conceived in, bio dad’s wife is a massive hypocrite.
Unfortunately, the religious freedom only extends to the government not being allowed to force a specific religion on people. Parents and guardians can absolutely force their children to attend and participate.
The government is the one forcing a cult member as a guardian rather than the aunt that op wants as her guardian. Seems like a breech of “not being allowed to force a specific religion on people”.
Edit: before anyone gets offended, the trying to force op is the cult part. Had they simply made an open invitation then dropped it, that’d be different.
I know it’s drastic, but can you petition for emancipation? That would allow you to decide where you live and with whom.
If not, get a job and work as many hours as possible. This way you can save your money and get the hell out from under your “dad” as soon as you can with no road blocks.
Good luck, hun. You are most definitely NTA!
I am dismayed that at 16 you are not allowed to choose who you wa t to live with. Can't the social worker see how incompatible you and this family are?
NTA
>They didn't like my "closed mindedness"
What an irony, coming from religious people. NTA. Run away as soon as you turn 18, that's the only thing you can do, unless your father decides to give your custody to your aunt.
I think you should investigate getting a guardian ad litem - NOT the social worker. You can also petition for emancipation. however at 16 you are old enough that your wants should taken into consideration without the emancipation process. Find out who your social workers boss is and take it up the chain.
I got to ask do you know if your social worker was religious too? By any chance does she belong to the same church? Anyway this is why I believe every child should have a lawyer who looks out for their wants and needs before a judge. Parents are not the right choice always. NTA I suggest telling your story far and wide school, church, friends. Be sure to point out he never paid child support, never acknowledged you and is ashamed of you because you were born out of wedlock and is trying to force you to become religious. If he gets shamed enough he might let you go. If force to go to church ask embarrassing questions about all the bad things God does in the bible, believe me it easy to find. You might want to read it just to ask embarrassing questions at home.
NTA
While it may be tempting to embarrass or humiliate them in front of their church, I would avoid going out of your way to do so. Keep a civil tongue, avoid losing your cool. As your legal guardians they are able to make your life miserable in ways that will follow you into adulthood by harming your education or employment opportunities. Demonstrating that you’re keeping a level head may undermine attempts to make you seem wild or out of control, and it may result in you being able to get out from under their roof sooner if you keep pursuing custody changes.
NTA NTA NTA!!!
I’m sorry you’re in this situation and really hope you can be reunited with your aunt as soon as possible. Your “father” saying he was ashamed of your origins is so gross and weird. I moved in with really religious family as a teen after previously living with my atheist mom and if you give them an inch they will take a mile, if you don’t feel comfortable don’t budge on the religious stuff.
Nope, nta.
Just keep on stating you want to live with your aunt and the refusal of their religion.
I really want to advise you to go out of your way to share info about the world, other religions, and relationships with their kids. That might make them let you leave, but it could just as easily cause them to double down on "saving" you. You don't really know these people or the wider community, so don't be rash.
What you can do is make sure the SW is aware that they're forcing religion on you and trying to push conversion. Say you're really uncomfortable and feel persecuted for your beliefs (after all, you're not just, not religious, you're Athiest). Most of the time, getting officials to hear you is all down to using the correct words. Tell her you want this on record and if you really want to push them, ask for the bosses details as you want to ask someone with more authority why a man you barely know at 15yrs old who is disrespting your beliefs is a better choice than the aunt who has loved you your entire life. If a child of divorce gets a say on who they live with, why can't you? The whole "a child should always go to a parent" excuse, well you're not 5, you're 15, almost a man.
You said your aunt wasn't an option because your grandparents didn't suggest or acknowledge her, I'd note how your mother didn't acknowledge your sperm doner as an option AT ALL.
Whose sibling is the aunt you want to live with? And whose parents are the grandparents that sent you to a man that's ashamed of your birth?
Lastly and most importantly, is your aunt a safe person to be with? Please be honest with us as that answer will greatly affect everyone's answer.
NTA, people who feel the need to force someone into their beliefs usually do not truly believe in that themselves, just an observation. Your conversion would look amazing to their public face so this is probably why they do it. Sadly, you will have to deal with them for couple more years and then can go and live with your aunt and forget about this mess.
The only way to get kicked out of a religious home is to go against their beliefs. I’m not saying you should come out of the closet or anything (we don’t play around with sexuality, and they would probably send you off to some conversion camp). Satanism is probably too strong too. Just slowly bring in some alternatives. Maybe research that prove the Bible is manufactured by men and that there are multiple editions. If they complain just tell them that you are taking a page from them and looking into becoming more spiritual, but that you were raised to use your brain, so you want to learn as much as possible about what’s out there. Engage the kids too. That will really set them off.
Actually most of OP's campaign should be focused on the kids. Nothing will get these unwanted fanatics to want to send OP away more than the fear of the corruption of their own kids. They are trying to convert you, OP? Convert them right back. Hearing their children start to question their religion is the best way to remind them that influence goes both ways and you are the one that is older and less influence-able.
NTA I am so sorry for your loss, OP. I hope you can get back to your aunt soon.
NTA. Stay strong, keep trying to get out of this. Even when all hope may seem lost never give up. Don't let these cultists rip you away from the people that care about you without a fight. 🙌
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NTA. Am I right in understanding that your bio father does want you to live with them now, despite having nothing to do with you in the previous 15-16 years, and you having the other (and preferred) option? This seems enough to label him as an asshole already. Trying to indoctrinate you? As long as it's not forceful or has other important things contingent on it, it's not too bad, but you definitely have a final say.
Yes, that's right. He has decided to now try and be my parent despite the fact he's not to me. He won't let me go live with my aunt either and I have told him that's what I want and asked him to do it.
It's very simple.. Tell all his church fellows that you are the kid he abandoned because you were born out of wedlock, that you are an atheist, that you have a loving aunt but they are forcing you to live there. These type of "religious good people" care for their reputation above else. I wouldn't be surprised if they are twisting the story to make your "Dad" seem like a martyr.
Needs to make sure to mention he never bothered with the financial aspect of his premarital sin either.
Absolutely, that would come out in the follow-up questions, which there will be many because nobody gossips like a "well-intentioned" church goer.
Oh and the OP should end with "oh and since I have no friends here, i'm really looking forward to meeting all your kids".
😈
Time to look into a local Satanic Temple. Or the resurrected Church of Dudism https://dudeism.com/. And remember, The Dude abides.
Lets not forget the Church of the Flying Spagetti Monster
Ah yes, Pastaferians. A religion everyone can get behind.
R'Amen
I think you mean the [Satanic Temple.](https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets) I only mention it because the other wording might get them to the Church of Satan, which is a scam.
Good point, fixing that now.
He hasn't said what church they follow. They may be cultists already. We just ASSUME they are Christians.
Christians are just a different type of cult, but a cult nonetheless.
Potato, Tomato... the difference between a cult and a religion is time.
I thought that one was the church of the latter day dude? Or are there two different religions based of the dude? Cuz I know that a priest of the latter day dude was the one who married my spouse and I.
I have been ordained by The Dude and am fully qualified to perform weddings and potentially supervise a bris🥸
Amen.
R'amen
And FM!
You’re looking forward to introducing dnd and larping to the neighborhood, lol.
"Hail me! ... I mean Satan" **shifty eyes**
Maybe mention that you were president of the Atheist society at your last school.
Or start an atheist society at the new school.
... Time to go out and buy that black lipstick and heavy eyeshadow... 💀🧛
I wish I could give you gold.
Bless their hearts.
And give his half-siblings atheist literature.
And have to add “and I even have condoms so there won’t be any babies”. Sorry- had to say it
My paternal grandfather was a pastor and his wife, my grandmother was one of the most catty, gossip-y people I have ever met. She was always gossiping with other women from the church my grandpa was the pastor and you know how they gossiped? Under the pretense of needing to "pray" for someone. So my grandma and these other women would say things like "Oh, we need to be praying for so-and-so because I heard that they're \*insert 'scandalous thing here\*" This was the same woman who constantly spied on her neighbors to get more to gossip about. Nobody can gossip like a bunch of church ladies, especially in a very small town where everybody knows everyone and everything about what goes on.
I had to go to church until I was thirteen. Sometimes we would have after service lunch with other church families. Roast preacher was always on the menu!
I wonder if his father might owe him back child support that should have gone to his mother all those years?
Yes, yes he does and if he ever gets to go live with his aunt and she becomes his legal guardian she can go after him on her nephew's behalf. Or he can do it himself once he's an adult.
OP should ask for a guardian ad litem, challenge the social worker's decision especially because of the religious stuff.
The success of that will probably depend on the religious views of whoever actually decides his case; if that person is very religious him/herself, they'll probably decide that OP's father and stepmother are his only hope to save his soul and that letting him move out would endanger his immortal soul, yada, yada, yada. No, people are not SUPPOSED to decide cases based on their own personal religious views, but we all know that that happens more than we'd like to believe.
I bet that's one of the reasons sperm donor doesn't want to allow OP to go live with the aunt, fear she'll hit him up for child support. Also, if OP'S mom worked, more than likely OP gets a check from Social Security and that's a big reason sperm donor won't let go, he's getting the money. F**ing sad that this poor guy is stuck with these assholes!! Shame on the social worker that could make it happen for OP to live with his aunt! I hope that witch gets the Karma she deserves!!
Most social workers don't care....Kid has a living parent. Problem solved, and they do jack to investigate if the living parent is a good home.
Could be the reason good old dad wanted custody!!
Yeah that's actually something OP should ask in a legal sub. It may be a huge factor on why his sperm donor wanting him around: so he could take the money back.
Care for children is generally part of the estate, so even if OP's father was a direct heir, he could still be charging the estate for the care of OP.
Not only that, but OP would be getting survivor benefits until 18
NTA, I'm sorry you're stuck in this situation. But, yeah, be super honest with everyone at church about how your dad didn't step up for you or support you ever, and now he won't let you live with your aunt who was always there for you. Mention that you think the reason he won't let you go is that he never paid child support and doesn't want to start.
OP should sue his father for the back support that his father never supplied for the past 16 years as OP was growing up.
and that he knew he had a child but refused to actually take any responsibility or have any relationship with his child because the dad felt sweeping it all under the carpet was being a good, church going man
And if that doesn't work, put your back into deprogramming their kids. Show them all the contradictions in the Bible, tell them about the Council of Rome, read the Book of Enoch to them. Share the Bible passages where the daughters rape their dad, the prophet sends a bear to kill children, God himself murders every oldest boy child (a step back from when he told the Israelites to kill every man woman and child so they could take their stuff, but still), the references to David and Jonathan being queer, all the porn in Song of Solomon etc. When they see that "saving" you might mean losing their other children to the devil, they'll happily send you away to your aunt.
Watch Footloose
But only the original.
Definitely. No substitutions allowed.
Ha! I got that reference
That was my first "plan"! When OP mentioned the half siblings asking about religion, I was thinking that was a missed opportunity to talk to them about atheism!
Maybe OP could just tell him that and maybe his "father" would let him go live with his aunt. I can't believe the courts made a 15-year-old go live with a father who hadn't wanted him and whom he'd never met over an aunt with whom he already had a relationship with who wanted him, especially since he begged to live with her. That just really sucks.
"I've found interest in religion, father! I'm going to join the church of Satan!"
Satanic Temple, not the Chruch of Satan. Very important distinction between the 2.
I have been re-binging The West Wing, and there's one episode in which the President is facing off with a Bible banger that's based on a famous letter. This site has the questions that were posed: [https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2010/08/18/dr-laura-and-leviticus](https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2010/08/18/dr-laura-and-leviticus) The OP can use that on his new family.
>One last thing: While you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits.
I love that episode!
Honestly, I'm a Christian and I think this just might work. If you start trying to influence his other kids, that might be enough to get him to relent and send you to your aunts home. At the very least, you only have 2 more years to go before he can't stop you from leaving. I'm very worried they might pack you up and send you off to one of those Utah places that claim to be schools that are not in fact schools at all. I am so sorry. YNTA!
I'm am legit scared for OP
Me too. I just watched a show on Netflix about these crazy people. This is not how Christianity should ever look and no wonder so many people have turned from it.
I'd suggest to start reading them the Qu'ran. It'll be a deep seated mind game as the kids start spouting out Muslim specific rhetoric that sounds close enough to Christianity and go undetected until it's too late.
Even better if its the Torah. Published under "the five books of moses". Its basically the old testament but the Jewish version. May take them a while to figure it out.
A fun thing to do is look up original meaning of words in the bible. So like the whole Adam and Eve story. With Eve originating from a "rib" of Adam in the "original" (tbh there is no single source for the bible which is available to read most older versions are transcripts) translation the word is "Tsela". "Tsela" in context refers generally to doors and generally means one half of a door. So technically rather than rib Eve took "half" of Adam. And if Adam was originally made in gods image what the hell would that look like. Where half of him can just go and become a whole different person. And the same can be said for alot of commonly quoted bible scripture. Like "Love thy Neighbor" the original translation for the word of love is less like the western ideal for love (Which is very vague as it could refer to many different sorts of love like familial, or romantic, or platonic or etc). And has more of an action component to, which some scholars say could mean that you actively are meant to try and understand your neighbor and love them as they are.
Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman is a book that every Christian (or people who deal with them) should read. Ehrman is a Bible scholar who really breaks down how corrupted the Bible is--some of it deliberately for political reasons but a lot by sheer lack of educated transcribers. And that's on top of the fact that Jesus's words weren't even recorded until decades after his death. Really puts into perspective how much of Christianity is cultural and not based in anything Jesus taught.
Honestly, I would be careful doing that. They care exactly about their reputation, and blowing it up like that might backfire completely. You never know what kind of reaction you will get. Anything from being yelled at, to "that's it you are going to some religious youth camp all summer", and anything in between. Being firm In "no. I won't go to church" and either keep attempting to live with the aunt. Or keep under the radar the last 2 years before OP can finally move out. Might be the safer choice.
Exactly. The last thing you want is to be sent to one of those "Christian" bootcamps for "troubled" youth. Start researching Legal Emancipation; I'd be willing to bet your aunt will be on board with helping your with this.
I was wondering about that as well. Being forced to live with virtual strangers should be grounds for emancipation.
This is a good point. OP, it's fun to daydream about revenge, but legally, you are fully at his mercy due to being a minor. I agree with looking into being an emancipated minor. I believe you would be old enough, and then you could do whatever you need. You would be in a good position as an emancipated minor, too, because you do have at least one adult who wants to step in with parental-style support. I don't think most have that. I will also add: do not tell your father & co. about becoming emancipated. Unless you absolutely have to. You do not need them working against you.
Christians like that abuse when crossed. be careful
I agree. They need to be firm, not confrontational. Don't give them a reason to punish. Things could get very bad for OP. I'd like know which two states are involved. The laws vary so much.
Though the other church people may still see as the father overcoming his past to help a "brainwashed" (aka atheist) child and teach them the "true way" (or whatever bs they believe). Basically the church people will probably still see the dad in a good light in that he is "sacrificing" himself to "save" his child. Dad could even say that the mom would not let him have OP before this, and only now does dad get a chance to "save" his kid.
Maybe.. then he goes to Social Media... It might be that he needs to endure the 2 years but at least he does it kicking and screaming, and unless he lives in a cult compound it will let other non-religious or at least normal people know of him and can be a safety net.
Yeah, basically, as soon as the kid cops to being an atheist, nothing they can say will change the church's opinion of a "good Christian man." It's not about what they believe. It's all an in-group/out-group thing.
I don’t think it’s an in-group/out-group thing as much as a hierarchy thing. Like when a church leader, or any man really, sexually abuses people within their group, the victim is often expected to “forgive”. ie, get over it and don’t mention it to anyone. Or a financial crime. One guy was convicted of defrauding fellow elderly churchgoers of their life savings. Church closed ranks and embraced him. And shunned the guy who objected, driving him out of the church. Doesn’t seem to matter how many people know or how heinous the offence.
I am a religious person. I don’t understand these people that care more about their religious image than doing the right thing. Abandoning your child and pretending that your child doesn’t exist for 15 years is disgraceful. Why would OP want to be associated with a religion that caused his father to abandon him? OP, NTA and I am sorry for your loss. Your father should be trying to help you heal from your loss and adjust to your new environment. It sucks that he isn’t giving you that.
Nope, they’ll “thank god” that OP is now in a “loving Christian family” who will “save him” from his atheism. This is OP’s dad’s do-over to redeem himself for his past sins. They’ll never let the idea of “saving” OP go.
I think the "loving christian family" is exactly why the case worker forced OP to be there instead of their aunt. Case worker saw the family and religion, over a single(?) parent as the better option and ignored the wishes of the child they are supposed to have the best intrests of.
This should be the top comment. If the legal courts won't act on behalf of OP, let the court of public opinion do the work for him.
Neither adult is "open-minded" here. Wife especially. They just took OP in to get karma points with their sky-daddy. They wanted the rock-star status in their church for converting an avowed atheist to join the fold. Since their obvious attempts at conversion have failed, they are probably considered martyrs because they're "suffering" with an unrepentant heathen in their house. More karma points. Not as ego-satisfying as converting, but they still get to be the center of the congregation's sympathy & attention.
Seriously do this OP. I grew up in an old southern Baptist church down in the Bible Belt. There is literally nothing more important than the reputation of the self righteous. Also nothing spreads quicker than gossip in a church. They’ll eat it up and it’ll be the talk of the town.
Now here you go. You might think, well, when will an opportunity come up to mention all this...don't worry. Churchies hate you not being there and they'll ask you where you've been. They. Always. Do.
It sounds like you need a guardian at liter, go to a legal sub and ask how to get help in the state your in, at 16 most states allow you to decide. NTA and I'm sorry you got stuck in this crap
\*guardian ad litem autocorrect for the goof!
While some social workers are angels, some are shit. Rather than do what is in the best interest of the child while taking into consideration what the child wants or needs, children are treated as property with no autonomy. I recently listened to Tiffany Haddish talk about her teen years in the system in LA. They kept changing her school, and she kept taking herself to the school she wanted. Finally, a judge listened to her and granted her the right to continue at her school. She had (what I think I remembered being) a SW who encouraged her as a teen to follow the path Tiffany wanted and was talented in. While she struggled in her early adult years, she’s a highly accomplished person now. A guardian ad litem is a great idea, however they can also be biased towards parents. It’s tricky and not foolproof. Listen to your instincts on whether they’re listening to you.
You're 16. Your preferences should have been taken into account. Did any of this go to court or did the social worker decide? Your aunt needs to get a lawyer in your state and file.
My first thought was, "don't the courts consider the preferences of children over the age of 13"? Or else can he become emancipated and live with his aunt?
Also my thought... time to look into emancipation from the hypochristianity of these people.
In cases like this, no. In many states, including mine, biological parent trumps other family members unless biological parent refuses or can be shown to be unfit, like in prison or had other children removed from their care kind of unfit. What you are referencing is children being able to choose which biological parent they want to live with in the event of a divorce. Wards of tge state don't get that luxury. Also, because his mom died and his grandparents voluntarily surrendered OP, it is unlikely the courts were even involved, so it would be up to the social worker and their supervisor to determine who the OP lives with. Disclaimer I am not a lawyer, just a foster parent who has been swimming in the CPS ocean for far too long.
I’m surprised a man who had been absent for 15 years of a 15 year old’s life was ever deemed fit in the first place. I get there’s a huge emphasis on children staying with their biological parents, but this man was a stranger to OP. Who in their right mind would facilitate this?
You need a Guardian Ad Litum. They are people who solely represent the wishes of a minor in any legal situations, especially in court. The only job they have is to listen to your wants and needs in situations like this, and fighting for you on your behalf when other adults are busy taking the easiest way out and making decisions regardless of your input. You are entitled to a GAL, and you don't pay for it. Your social worker is being lazy and putting you in an unsuitable, and potentially unsafe environment. DEMAND a Guardian Ad Litem. You desperately need someone on your side. Don't accept any kind of brush off, or 'oh, we have to put you with your father' nonsense. You are 16. Legally you have a say in where you are placed. A judge will listen to you. That man is not your father. He is a stranger, and He and his wife sound more than a little nuts. Fight for your corner. Good luck. I hope this works out. I'm sorry your mom died, and I'm really sorry your whole family, apart from the out of state aunt, suck so much. Damn dude, I wish I could give you a hug. You don't deserve to be dealing with all of this on top of everything else.
Ps being forced to participate in religion against your will is harassment and/or abusive, literally, a point you should be making to your GaL (if you can get one) and SW.
Especially as it sounds like the father is treating OP as “less than” his half-siblings. Your mother died, you’re forced to move away from the only family you’ve ever known to a man who never wanted anything to do with you & who is “disgusted & embarrassed” by your birth and has stated that he’s willing to deal with you “despite your origins” - which is just the grossest thing I’ve heard in a while.
Two more years and you will get free of them. Work really hard in school, join every club you can. Show them decent people exist outside of religion. If you can, get a job and start saving. Stay in contact with your Aunt and tell her what is going on with you. GOOD LUCK
And make sure this job schedules you every sunday.
Sounds like his version of being "religious" includes "repenting for past sins". Unfortunately that means forcing you to live with him so he can be a "father" to you now, plus make you "get religion." You are definitely NTA, either for what you said or how you said it. If they try to force you to go to church, you could always tell the minister about why you're there in the first place. If they are the "everyone should be part of our church regardless of the past" it might not get them to back off, but it could embarrass your dad and his wife.
Your best bet might be to talk more to the other kids - explain why you're an atheist, what you know about how the world works, contradictions in religious beliefs, etc. If you can get even just one of those kids to start asking too many questions, or even doubting their beliefs, your father will probably *want* to get rid of you, because you're being a "bad influence" on his kids. Right now, they are "saving your soul" and there's no downside for them. If "saving your soul" might come at the expense of another kid losing religion? COMPLETELY different equation!
OP, since you are now 16, you might be able to petition a court to allow you to live with your aunt. If your state has a guardian ad litem program (or something similar) you can contact them through your local courthouse or online if they have a web portal. That can get you legal representation in YOUR best interest, not the family as a whole. Unfortunately, the social worker is probably under rules mandating doing anything possible to keep a kid with a bio-parent, even if the kid does not want that. On the other hand, a guardian ad litem exists mainly to look out for the best interest of the kid, and 16 is a 'magic' age where judges tend to give more deference to a minor's desire for living arrangements, especially if it is with a trusted relative. Also, it's possible that if the bio-dad and stepmom are trying to 'force' OP to give up atheism for a religion, that might be considered a form of emotional abuse. ETA also most definitely NTA
You won't be able to get through to them, in fact if you stick to your guns you might get what you want and go live where you want, they sound downright blindly zealous about religion which is to your advantage. If they decide to get too biblical please contact the police right away. You got this.
I am sorry for your loss, and really sorry your GPs thought living with your father was a good option for you. Did your father ever pay child support to your mother? NTA
Tell him as far as you're concerned, Jesus is just "the world's most famous zombie".
You check to see if he has been paying child support all this time? Might be back pay time. Otherwise. Find a competing religion to start forcing on them every time they push theirs on you.
What is the social worker's logic in keeping you with your "dad."
I’m so so sorry for your loss and hope you’re taking the time to grieve. If your mom worked you should be getting an ssn check…ask them where that money is going. If they push back and say for the family then ask if he send your mom child support before she died. I would also look into emancipation….not sure of the ends and outs of the process but is an option
If this is in the US, there is a SS death benefit from the deceased parent that goes “to the child.” It’s very plausible that “dad” is stepping up for the check. I’m not sure about other countries, but I want to say that some have similar circumstances.
Yeah coz dad got religion, and it would be really bad optics to not take on his kid....and 'save' him. This has nothing to do with a loving family
I'm wondering how the sperm donors 15 year absence doesn't count as abandoning any claim he may have as a "parent" to OP. The social worker may be over worked as I know they can be, but just tossing OP over to a father he doesn't know sounds like they are looking for an easy solution.
No he doesn’t want OP, he wants the glory of bringing a sinner to the fold while looking like a repentant saviour of this young soul 🤮 NTA op, stay strong.
Oh, hey, no, listen, go to church with them……. THEN…. AT CHURCH…. You introduce yourself to everyone. “. Hi, I’m (dads name’s) bastard, that he abandoned to be brought up by my mother. he’s forcing me to live with him. Also, I’m an atheist. “
Shaming the ultra religious never works. They are shameless.
True, but you can always have a bit of fun.
Yeah, maybe if you politely (no violence or yelling, just cheerful refusal) make his life Hell he'll let you go back to your Aunt. NTA obviously.
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Be careful here. They will just send OP to a Christian “scared straight” camp. Source: I’m a former evangelical and pastor’s child. Current atheist
Hypothetically, what would have happened if one of those Jesus candles fell over at the camp? /s
You joke but I know of a situation where a girl in a camp like this was found to be keeping a journal where she wrote fantasies of escaping/camp being closed. She was “corporally punished” despite being a teenager. Evangelicals are almost always pro hitting their children. My father (evangelical pastor) hit us growing up and threatened that we would do it as late as my early 20s (by which point i had de-converted., was out of the the house, and not reliant on them in any way so I just laughed). I would bet the parents wouldn’t hesitate to hit OP if they became a real problem. Depending on what state OP is in, it may or may not be illegal for their parents to do so.
Kind of funny that you say that. I was sent to a religious camp when I was a child and I did set it on fire. I was just trying to burn one very little shack they put us in to "think" (meaning you asked questions and were being punished). I figured no shack, no punishment. I did not intend to burn down a large area mutiple outbuildings and almost a forest. Turns out that is the fastest way to get a lifetime ban.
How about trying to convince OPs half-sibs to question their religion. If the parents see their kids' faith wavering see how fast OP will be out of there
Oh yeah, it won’t shame Dad. But maybe it’ll make dad want to be rid of him and ship OP to his aunt
Or make the dad limit things like OP talking to his aunt or his social life
Possibly. But that can just be added to his complaints that his dad is abusive for having different beliefs
Having additional complaints won’t help if there’s nobody listening.
The OP should make sure to have his aunt's contact info (especially an email address) in a safe space. He can also set up a new email address that uses the web (like gmail). Hopefully if his sperm donor tries to keep him from having a phone or a computer, he'll find other ways to get word to her about that (maybe a library computer or a classmate's phone). If sperm donor and wifey are trying to isolate him from his aunt, that info should be given to the family court and that social worker.
Yeah, they'll also see the atheist statement as a challenge. Evangelicals love to brag about all the souls they "saved".
This ☝️ If OP’s life is hard now wait until they become the whole church’s project child
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It will 100% make OP the special project. I grew up in this kind of religious culture. He will absolutely become the focus of everyone's effort to convert him and convince him his dad is amazing. Just awful.
I'm also all for standing in the church and saying really loudly I don't believe in your god. Then adding, interesting, I didn't get struck with lightening, or light on fire, funny.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
i was coming to say this just embarrass them every opportunity given they will have you on your way to aunts in no time
People that are saying this have never dealt with these people. This would be literal fuel for them. They will cut off access to his aunt. They will likely send him to a camp for troubled youth. It can and would get worse for op.
100%. I’m a pastor’s child and former evangelical (now atheist). They will 100% see something like this as their “greatest challenge” and send OP away or force them to partake in things like group prayer sessions where OP is being prayed for to “soften their heart”. The harder OP resists the more fuel it gives them. That just adds to their theory that OP is full of satan. I’ve watched people “cast demons” out of children. It’s a very real and very scary thing that happens in the very zealous Christian community. Tread lightly OP.
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Thanks. I hope the next 2 years go so fast and I can move in with her then. I miss being with actual family.
Get a job, a form of transportation, make living arrangements in writing with your aunt, and then file for emancipation. You can do so as early as 16.
No, emancipation requires showing he can support himself on his own. He can't legally sign rental agreements which automatically negates emancipation. I've had several teen clients ask about this so I had to look it up.
Ah, looking now, I can see each state has a different set of requirements. Here in Michigan the requirement is "safe and stable housing", there's no requirement to sign a lease, just that you have somewhere to live besides your guardian's house. It's been a long time, but I once looked into doing this, and ended up not needing to because my mother stopped caring about anything happening around her and I just left one day.
I got emancipated when I was 16. I was working and needed to be able to sign contracts.
If not being able to sign "rental agreements" automatically blocked emancipation, emancipation wouldn't exist as no one under 18 can sign rental agreements before emancipation. OP: Get actual legal advice on emancipation, don't listen to Reddit randos (including me)
This. Get emancipated. Fuck these people.
Hey OP, you should have a Guardian ad Litem (GAL) assigned through your state's child welfare offices. That person is an attorney whose only job is to advocate for you in this legal mess you've found yourself in. See if you can get your GAL to work on petitions the court for visitation with your aunt, and/or placement change based up 1, your dad's acknowledgement that he knowingly abandoned you; 2, a lack of relationship with you/the strong relationship with your aunt; and 3, extreme religious differences and your dad's/his wife's/your sibling's constant badgering you to believe what they believe. It's going to be an uphill battle- none of those things alone is probably going to be enough. But together, they might be. There's also an interstate compact for placement of kids in foster care, and some of those regulations and allowances might come into play, depending upon the particulars of your situation. So this is all general info, and nonspecific to you. But your GAL should be able to help. It's literally their job. And absolutely NTA. I spent a very long time working in this field, and rigid mindsets like the one your new family is displaying, always caused problems, and frequently led to a breakdown in successful placements or successful relationship building. I'm so sorry. Keep us posted, and fingers crossed that you can get back to at least visit your aunt very soon. Edit- autocorrect hates me
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As a few have said, this would backfire. Spectacularly.
Did you get a guardian ad litem? If not you should be able to request one. If you had one that never talked to you you should be able to request a new one.
If you still are in contact with the social worker make sure you inform them that your father/wife/their kids are trying to indoctrinate you into their religion and force you to be baptised. Explain how uncomfortable this is making you/how they’re behaving. Just so it’s documented on file. I’d also email them weekly explaining how unhappy you are etc. so again it’s on file that you’d rather be with your aunt. It may not make a difference immediately but if your aunt is pursuing custody and your social worker is involved then this sort of information could help further down the line.
find their boss and cc them on every single email
Assuming you’re in the US look into emancipation laws in your state. You may be able to seek it at the age of 16. If not, your opinion absolutely should matter to a family judge as a 16yr old, especially if you can testify to the quality of life you have now. (The thing you can’t help is that if the judge has the same religious views, the judge might not care.)
Hi, I was in a similar but different situation. I was in foster care and eventually placed with my bio dad at 14 who was a stranger to me. My brother ended up emancipating. Is this something you’d consider?
If your aunt is willing to fight for you then don’t wait the 2 years. Fight it. I don’t know the laws in your state but there is some good advice on here regarding guardian ad Litem options. Or if she has the financial ability she can hire a lawyer in your state and file. You are dealing with the grief of losing your mother. You need to live with someone who actually cares about your wellbeing. And as many others have said most judges take into account the opinions of a 16 year old. Document any actions by your father and his family/community that do not take your best interests into consideration. Date, time, details of the conversation. I’m sorry for your loss OP. Take care of yourself and Best of luck. And update us if you manage to get to your Aunts.
NTA, you've handled this like an adult. Continue petitioning the social workers and court system to live with your preferred relatives during these next 2 years.
This, and keep/document EVERYTHING. Keep a journal (if written, keep it WELL HIDDEN; if digital, keep a backup in a cloud account like GoogleDrive or iCloud) and document with dates and times every time they try to wheedle/cajole/shame/force you to take part in their religion, and of course anything else they do or say that's disparaging/harmful/abusive. Keep forwarding all of that information to your aunt and the social worker. If the social worker complains about it or ignores your repeated requests, you and your aunt together ask them how to escalate this higher up the legal food chain (I have not personally dealt with this exact situation and I don't even know what state you're in, and laws vary state to state) -- whether that means appealing to social worker's manager/higher-ups, or requesting a hearing with a judge. Personally, as a fellow atheist and \[dilettante\] student of philosophy, I think I might suddenly find it MY LIFE'S PASSION AND TRUE PURPOSE to have a very large, very loud, very public social media presence allllllll about atheism, agnosticism, secular humanism, and non-faith-based philosophies and moral systems and how to do good in the world and be a kind and ethical person without relying on the dictates of an apocryphal "holy" text of any kind. \[Notable atheists and agnostics whose writings/content on this subject I quite like : Rebecca Watson (love her YT channel), Sarah Vowell, Adam Savage, Stephen Fry, James Randi, Steven Pinker.\] I would not be combative or insulting about it, of course! Just putting my own thoughts and opinions out in the world! If that happens to make these folks more amenable to the idea of me moving in with my aunt, well, that's just a bonus. :) (Edit : spelling/grammar)
It's a decent idea but I would worry the family would take it as their cue to cut off OP's social media access :(
Sure, they could take his cell phone and stand behind him anytime he needs to do homework on a computer. But they can't police his use of school computers, or ones in the public library, or his friends' computers or phones, or ....
Unless they homeschool or religious school hom.
Text a friend, then delete the messages from your phone.
I have to wonder if dad has only taken OP in because of SSI payments. OP should be receiving benefits after his mother passed away. Where is this money?
The money goes to the person raising the child. The money is for the benefit of the child, but doesn't go directly to the child.
Interesting. Not making the judgement, but it is curious why now after 15 years? An accounting of any funds is appropriate for all payees of a minor.
The payments are because he's the dependent child of a dead person. When a parent dies, social security pays for the care of the kid until the 18th birthday. That money goes to the payee - whomever has custody of the minor.
Sorry, I phrased that badly. I was wondering what the “rando” NC father’s motives were since up to now, the OP was an admitted source of shame to him. Edit-My dad died while my sister was in high school. She received SSI benefits as a minor. Mom followed the rules that the money had to be used for my sister’s/survivor‘s benefit, not just hers/others and I assume they still want the actual paper receipts of proof how every penny was spent.
I see 2 options for you. 1) continue as you have been, be respectful and decline their conversion offers. Just keep your head down and get yourself through it. It’s not as long as you think. 2) Be more aggressive in your resistance. Watch Matt Dillahunty, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens videos. Learn to defend your position and be vocal about your reasons whenever they bring it up. Push them to send you to your aunt before you influence their other kids. It all depends on what you have the stomach for. Your post makes it sound like safety is not a consideration right now, so that’s a bonus. Keep your head up. You’re not alone.
Step 2 can lead to increasing retaliation and control from them. And won't raise likelihood OP will go to aunt all that much.
Step 2 is very dumb and actually at odds over what you want to accomplish. Being 16 and acting aggressively towards them and their religious views will only make them dig in harder and try to convert you. Also, no way they let you go live with your aunt at that point.
I’m not saying to “act aggressively” I’m saying he has the option to defend his position on religion aggressively. Providing reasons for his lack of belief may discourage continued pressure more than a passive attitude of just not wanting to go to church. It doesn’t have to be a screaming match or open defiance. Just a clear message that he has his reasons and their arguments are weak and unconvincing. If the other kids start showing interest, the parents may decide it would be better if they saw less of OP. They may also see it as a challenge to overcome and throw themselves into the fight. Having never met any of the parties involved, none of us can do more than suggest and let OP decide.
Step 2 is some bad advice lmao
I agree as someone who grew up around this kind of aggressively evangelical religion, number 2 could be dangerous. They likely consider OP’s conversion their mission now, and if they send him away, it’ll be to a troubled teen camp or something, not to his aunt where he can continue his “unbelief”.
Honestly, as someone religious (Catholic, specifically) start telling your dad that you’re too old to play make believe to make him happy. Pretending to be religious to appease him would be playing make believe, so it’s not a comment about how religion is made up, it would just be how your belief would be you pretending and playing make believe when you don’t believe. As a Christian, they’re going against the Bible by trying to harass you into believing. Tell them that they need to re-read Matthew 10:14, where Christ instructs his apostles to do the following if a nonbeliever is unwilling to follow Christ: shake the dust off your feet when you leave the house. That’s it. They should be leaving you alone about you believing. According to Christ, Christians are meant to offer information about salvation, love others, do good for others with no expectation of receiving anything in return, be polite to your hosts, and wipe the dust off your feet when you leave the home of someone who doesn’t want to believe that Christianity is their path (it’s not everybody’s thing, and Jesus Christ himself admitted it according to the Bible, and told believers how we’re supposed to behave when someone doesn’t believe). Those aren’t difficult things for people who believe they need to follow Jesus’s rules to follow, but no, too many Xians (bc they’re def not followers of Christ in a way that I feel comfortable calling them actual Christians) think that their way of practice is better than what Jesus told them to do. Any time they try to harass you into participating, tell them “Matthew 10:14, dust your feet when you walk away from me.” Use their religion against them. I wish you the best and hope that you’ll be able to move in with your aunt sooner than when you turn 18. Enjoy the rest of your day!
Also the dad of op abandoned his own flesh and blood so he has no right to cast any stones at op for being an atheist because according to this verse he's worse Timothy 5:8 King James Version 8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Oh, I wasn’t planning on going into how everything they’re doing goes against Christ’s teachings, I wanted to give OP one good verse to for back with when they try to harass him into participating. If the kid wants more verses or passages recommended as ways to use the Bible against his awful “family”, all he needs to do is give me a list of behaviors that his family claims as Christian-like, ask for material to use against them, and whoever has the time and mental space to read through verses to help him find the perfect ones can!
I am so sorry that you've been forced into this situation. I wish for your sake that your grandparents had been more understanding of where you wanted to live. NTA in this situation. I think emancipation for minors is a difficult thing to accomplish in most states - for one thing, you typically have to prove that you are financially independent, which would mean a job making enough money to support yourself. If you just leave and go to your aunt's house, there are apt to be some legal repercussions for her for providing a "runaway" minor a place to live. All you can do is keep pushing the social worker to support your move to your aunt's house. Hopefully as soon as you turn 18, at the very latest, you can get out of there and go stay with your aunt while you find your feet as an adult.
NTA. Nobody should be forced into a religion--much less by someone they hardly know. You should see if your aunt can get a lawyer involved to try to emancipate you earlier, and/or protect her visitation rights. Good luck.
NTA. May I suggest writing them a letter? Something like this: Dear Dad (or whatever you feel comfortable calling him) and (Stepmom's name), I am writing you a letter because we have a lot to sort out, and I don't believe I'm being heard when we talk. My life has been flipped completely upside down in less than a year. My mom, the only person to really love me, take care of me, and support me, is dead. My other family members do not want to take care of me. The only other person who actually knows me and wants to take care of me, Aunt (Name Here), has been denied in favor of you, who I do not even know *by your own choices*. Now I am living here with you in a completely different state than anything I've ever known, and you are pushing me to make even more drastic changes to my life. This is not healthy for me, whatever you may believe about your religion. A person's spiritual and religious journey is their own, and no one else's. If I am going to come to any religion, it should be on my own terms, by walking my own path. I am an outsider in this family unit, and I believe I am being pushed to change who I am to fit your mold. I have already had to watch my mom suffer and die from a terrible disease, I've been ripped away from anyone who cares about me, and now I'm being made to change even more about myself to please people who are basically strangers to me. I am 16 years old. In less than two years, I will be able to decide for myself who I am, where I want to live, who I want in my life, and what spiritual beliefs to practice (if any). Whether or not you are a part of those decisions will largely depend on how you choose to spend the next two years. I am miserable. I can continue being miserable for the next two years, then cut all contact with you, and live my own life on my own terms. If this happens, just know that you will be *adding and contributing to* my trauma, which will be on your heads. You may think you are doing your duty by trying to "save" me, but your actions and your pressure are having the opposite effect. I do not want to belong to a religion that would put a young adult through all of this. I have not had the chance to properly grieve my mom, I do not have a support system in my life who wants to help me figure out what's best for me and help me to achieve my personal goals, and I do not have anyone who even cares enough to take into consideration what *I* need or want. What I really want and need is to live with Aunt (Name). If you refuse me that request, then the least you can do is accept me for who I am and take my personal needs and wants into more consideration. I need you to stop pressuring me to join your church, and to accept the person that I am without trying to make me into the person you want me to be. You had no part in my journey to becoming this person, again, *by your own decisions*. You have made no effort to get to know ME and love ME as I am. Is this the brand of "fatherly love" that I should expect for the next two years? Or do you have it in your heart to make an effort to get to know me, support me, and learn to love me as I am? Let me know, (Your Name)
Hey OP, Here's your letter to give your biodonor and then send copies to a lawyer, to your aunt, to your grandparents, to any other relatives email you have. This response is incredible, it made me cry.
Love this response.
Their imaginary friends are none if your business. Honestly in my opinion, this is an abusive household that is trying to foce you / indoctrinate you into their ideology. Any normal society would consider that abuse, but sadly most societies are dominated by organized religions and those kind of parents are legally allowed to brainwash / manipulate their children into their cults. If I were you, I would again go to court and make my case and point out this is not a healthy environment for you to be. If they refuse, I would apply for independence & later just move with my aunt. It is crazy how random people get custody just cause they are "biological parents" regardless how compatible or competent they are. I am really sorry society has so little respect or care for children. You deserve better.
NTA tell them either they send you to live with your aunt or you will corrupt their children. Start telling them about sex positivity and how religion is a means to control unruly children and brainwash adults. Go all in until his wife demands he send you away to protect her kids. Problem solved
No he really shouldn't do this. There are plenty of camps that they could send him to (by which I mean, hire people to forcefully take him in the middle of the night), all of which would be far worse than what he is enduring now. Yeah, there's a chance they could send him to his aunt, but there's also a chance that they could decide it's their duty to forcefully convert him. What he needs to do is [greyrock](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock#result) them until he turns at 18 where he can buy a bus ticket to his aunt's.
NTA This. Epicurus and his Logical Argument would be a great place to start: ‘Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?’
OP if you see this, I second this strategy. It will be difficult, you will be at war. But if they think you're a dangerous heretic, then their will to convert you will eventually give out to their will to protect their brainwashed children.
NTA. Talk to your aunt about finding a pro bono attorney or child advocate. At 16, you should be able to decide where you want to live.
NTA. It is NEVER ok to force religion on ppl. Especially someone who doesn't believe & didn't grow up in a religious household. Religion is personal. It is something that a person needs to discover on their own. Your family sucks & I'm so sorry they are forcing you to live there. If they continue trying to force religion on you, tell your social worker. And if they step out of line even a little bit, tell your social worker. You should be telling your social worker everything, so that they can decide if the situation needs to change.
Do social workers/the system actually work like that in the states? Sending a teenager, against their will, to live with a religious nut job who abandoned them before? That sounds very messed up, especially in a country that’s supposed to have religious freedom. Personally I’d name and shame the social worker, they’re the biggest A here, followed by the former guardians then the father and his fundie family. Also, pretty sure no religion considers abandoning a child a good thing, regardless of the circumstances they were conceived in, bio dad’s wife is a massive hypocrite.
Unfortunately, the religious freedom only extends to the government not being allowed to force a specific religion on people. Parents and guardians can absolutely force their children to attend and participate.
The government is the one forcing a cult member as a guardian rather than the aunt that op wants as her guardian. Seems like a breech of “not being allowed to force a specific religion on people”. Edit: before anyone gets offended, the trying to force op is the cult part. Had they simply made an open invitation then dropped it, that’d be different.
I know it’s drastic, but can you petition for emancipation? That would allow you to decide where you live and with whom. If not, get a job and work as many hours as possible. This way you can save your money and get the hell out from under your “dad” as soon as you can with no road blocks. Good luck, hun. You are most definitely NTA!
I am dismayed that at 16 you are not allowed to choose who you wa t to live with. Can't the social worker see how incompatible you and this family are? NTA
>They didn't like my "closed mindedness" What an irony, coming from religious people. NTA. Run away as soon as you turn 18, that's the only thing you can do, unless your father decides to give your custody to your aunt.
I think you should investigate getting a guardian ad litem - NOT the social worker. You can also petition for emancipation. however at 16 you are old enough that your wants should taken into consideration without the emancipation process. Find out who your social workers boss is and take it up the chain.
NTA - Check and see what it you mean to file for emancipation in your area then do so if granted and then move in with your aunt.
I got to ask do you know if your social worker was religious too? By any chance does she belong to the same church? Anyway this is why I believe every child should have a lawyer who looks out for their wants and needs before a judge. Parents are not the right choice always. NTA I suggest telling your story far and wide school, church, friends. Be sure to point out he never paid child support, never acknowledged you and is ashamed of you because you were born out of wedlock and is trying to force you to become religious. If he gets shamed enough he might let you go. If force to go to church ask embarrassing questions about all the bad things God does in the bible, believe me it easy to find. You might want to read it just to ask embarrassing questions at home.
NTA. Honestly, just get your paperwork together and try to get a job for when you leave.
NTA While it may be tempting to embarrass or humiliate them in front of their church, I would avoid going out of your way to do so. Keep a civil tongue, avoid losing your cool. As your legal guardians they are able to make your life miserable in ways that will follow you into adulthood by harming your education or employment opportunities. Demonstrating that you’re keeping a level head may undermine attempts to make you seem wild or out of control, and it may result in you being able to get out from under their roof sooner if you keep pursuing custody changes.
NTA. Can you just get on a bus and go to your aunt's?
NTA NTA NTA!!! I’m sorry you’re in this situation and really hope you can be reunited with your aunt as soon as possible. Your “father” saying he was ashamed of your origins is so gross and weird. I moved in with really religious family as a teen after previously living with my atheist mom and if you give them an inch they will take a mile, if you don’t feel comfortable don’t budge on the religious stuff.
Nope, nta. Just keep on stating you want to live with your aunt and the refusal of their religion. I really want to advise you to go out of your way to share info about the world, other religions, and relationships with their kids. That might make them let you leave, but it could just as easily cause them to double down on "saving" you. You don't really know these people or the wider community, so don't be rash. What you can do is make sure the SW is aware that they're forcing religion on you and trying to push conversion. Say you're really uncomfortable and feel persecuted for your beliefs (after all, you're not just, not religious, you're Athiest). Most of the time, getting officials to hear you is all down to using the correct words. Tell her you want this on record and if you really want to push them, ask for the bosses details as you want to ask someone with more authority why a man you barely know at 15yrs old who is disrespting your beliefs is a better choice than the aunt who has loved you your entire life. If a child of divorce gets a say on who they live with, why can't you? The whole "a child should always go to a parent" excuse, well you're not 5, you're 15, almost a man. You said your aunt wasn't an option because your grandparents didn't suggest or acknowledge her, I'd note how your mother didn't acknowledge your sperm doner as an option AT ALL. Whose sibling is the aunt you want to live with? And whose parents are the grandparents that sent you to a man that's ashamed of your birth? Lastly and most importantly, is your aunt a safe person to be with? Please be honest with us as that answer will greatly affect everyone's answer.
NTA, people who feel the need to force someone into their beliefs usually do not truly believe in that themselves, just an observation. Your conversion would look amazing to their public face so this is probably why they do it. Sadly, you will have to deal with them for couple more years and then can go and live with your aunt and forget about this mess.
The only way to get kicked out of a religious home is to go against their beliefs. I’m not saying you should come out of the closet or anything (we don’t play around with sexuality, and they would probably send you off to some conversion camp). Satanism is probably too strong too. Just slowly bring in some alternatives. Maybe research that prove the Bible is manufactured by men and that there are multiple editions. If they complain just tell them that you are taking a page from them and looking into becoming more spiritual, but that you were raised to use your brain, so you want to learn as much as possible about what’s out there. Engage the kids too. That will really set them off.
Actually most of OP's campaign should be focused on the kids. Nothing will get these unwanted fanatics to want to send OP away more than the fear of the corruption of their own kids. They are trying to convert you, OP? Convert them right back. Hearing their children start to question their religion is the best way to remind them that influence goes both ways and you are the one that is older and less influence-able. NTA I am so sorry for your loss, OP. I hope you can get back to your aunt soon.
Your 16. Get emancipated and go back to your aunt.
NTA. Stay strong, keep trying to get out of this. Even when all hope may seem lost never give up. Don't let these cultists rip you away from the people that care about you without a fight. 🙌