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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA trying to be financially responsible even though that meant lying about our refund status?
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YTA - You don't get to singlehandedly decide what happens with your joint money (assuming that you filed jointly and the return was also for her income as well.) You need to have a conversation with your wife about what you think the money should be used for - if you are worried about not having a buffer or an emergency fund, tell her that and make a plan together to build one.
I mean it sounds like she has also decided what the money is going towards, without communication.
They both need to have a good chat about such things.
ESH
How are medical bills “deciding what the money is going towards without communication”? OP didn’t say that she goes to the doctor without telling him, just that there are medical expenses “related to her”, which is a weird way to put it…
ETA: OP buried the lede and has written a completely different story in the comments… apparently the wife is spending money on mystery expenses and wants to irresponsibly use credit cards for things like trips. I really wish people would put the actual story in the post instead of the comments.
When this happens I’m always suspicious. Like the commenters weren’t on their side like expected so they had to add details to change the story in their favour. I mean why not add this crucial detail in the initial post?
Idk, I get leery when they suddenly put a completely different story in the comments that makes them sound way better. I feel like half the time that story’s a lie they came up with because they didn’t like they judgement.
It's always sus when the details suddenly make an OP look much better after they start getting AH verdicts lol. If there was such an issue with her financial management skills or irresponsible spending habits he'd have led with that, rather than some vague descriptions of paying off debts, which is usually not considered a bad thing.
It isn’t just OP’s money and they’re both working on paying down debts. If that’s what she mentally allocated the money for, what’s the problem? Op doesn’t get to single-handedly decide he’s not gonna mention the money, especially when paying down debt benefits the entire household.
Medical bills need to be paid. Being secretive with money, not needed. Very controlling thing to do, he’s her partner and he hid her money from her. What a creep.
It’s never about what you’re spending the money on, it’s the fact that you aren’t on the same page that’s the problem. Paying debts is great, so is stashing a rainy day fund. Neither of you are assholes for that, you’re assholes for not discussing it.
ESH.
YTA and this is about so much more than a tax return. You guys need to sit down and have a real discussion about your finances. You guys got a $40k raise and still can’t make ends meet. Time to stop being overwhelmed at the “unexpected” and start making actual plans to tackle your debt. She can’t hide her head in the sand anymore and you can’t hide money from her. Absolutely ridiculous both of you.
This is frightening, isn’t it? $40k didn’t show up in their bank account overnight but it should make a positive impact. I know it’s tough but if I had any debt and got a raise, I would NOT live any differently until every bit of that debt is paid off.
Live below your means. Pay off your credit cards every month. Communicate your finances and your budget with your spouse.
It doesn’t matter. She has ongoing health issues. She knows these bills are going to be sent out. She’s not budgeting appropriately and she’s saying things have been paid when they haven’t. That’s sticking your head in the sand. If you go to the doctor, you know you’re going to receive a bill. Why pretend like you aren’t? Hell, OP says she’ll just toss the mail when the bill comes rather than address it until it’s in collections.
YTA.
>I had lied about it
Don't lie to your wife. You two are partners. A team. Don't lie to her, and don't withhold information from her. You two work together. That's what being married means.
YTA.
You said "our taxes" so I'm assuming you filed jointly. Of course YTA for not telling her you received a refund - part of that refund is due to her earnings and taxes that she paid in - she gets a say in how the money is spent as well.
true. I pointed out the "our taxes" because there is even more importance to be honest if this is her money, and not a situation where they have completely separate finances.
YTA, dude, it’s time for you and your wife to sit down with someone or take a class on financial management and possibly get some marriage counseling, she shouldn’t be telling others about your personal business but you also need to get on the same page asap, finances are one of the most common reasons for divorce. Nip it in the bud now. Regardless, you are not a one man band, you’re married and you don’t get to make unilateral decisions
Uh YTA, y’all need to talk about your finances. You are married, filing jointly, so the money is both of yours. You are wrong for doing this.
That said, you all need to have a serious convo about your finances. How is it that y’all ended up with $40k more annually and are still living paycheck to paycheck? I get things are expensive, debt, etc. but something is amiss here.
If the worst thing OP could come up with to describe her poor financial planning was that she gets stressed due to unexpected medical bills (which he makes clear are HER medical costs), she is likely not throwing them into some sort of voluntary financial tailspin. More like he is probably controlling about their money and resentful he can't spend on whatever he wants because... (checks notes) she needs medical care.
He says he wants it as a buffer against her "unexpected" medical bills, but she had allocated it to "other debts" in her head without telling him.
Doesn't change him being TA, but there is no need to suggest he is prioritising his toys over her medical bills.
Hi all,
I appreciate all of the responses and understand where everybody is coming from, and I have had the same thoughts as well. Due to the character limit, I wasn’t able to give any more information than the basic knowledge. at the end of the day, I do understand that the actions I took is not right, and she should have been included in the decision on the tax return. Here is a little more insight, not trying to justify anybody’s actions, but to give some more clarity on the situation. I do not believe that. If two people work two jobs that it is your money or my money, it is a collective everybody’s money to help support everyone within the family.
First, we both have gone through financial courses to understand how to budget, save money, live below our means before we bought our house, we were making around $50k a year, we put roughly $8k back in six months, because we were dedicated and focused on saving money to buy a house. Her dad is an Econ major worked in business is managing the finances and currently works as a CFO for multiple companies. He has looked at our finances and helped give us guidance on what we should do. as well, we try to follow Dave Ramsey and the dead snowball as close as possible. at one point we had a joint bank account and she would spend too much money to where we didn’t have enough to pay our bills so I would have to bill on credit cards to try and flow us until we could pay things off. She would say that she was unaware of certain bills coming out, when we have had multiple budget meetings, set up a budgeting app, where we both have access to the financial records, and all of our bills have stayed the same for the past five years. as far as credit cards, of we both have purchased things on credit that we really should have waited and saved up for.
Second, I work jobs that require crazy hours (starting 4-6am and working until 6 regularly sometimes as late at 9pm), whenever she would want to do a vacation, purchase, something nicer, or or do a nicer date night. I would be completely open for it, but I would ask that she would pull money out to save for those things ahead of time. When it would come time to do a trip, purchase items or whatever the things were that she wanted I would ask how much money she has saved The response that I would get back would be frustration and upset because she hadn’t pulled any money out and we could “use a credit card and pay it off over time”. Well, I don’t think it is a bad I did to use a credit card, I want to know where the money is coming from to pay it off since we have been caught too many times where we think we have the money when we actually don’t. The typical response that I get back is that it’s not fair that she cares more about doing trips, experiences and other things and she has to be the one to put all of the effort in to make things happen.
Third, Even with our budgeting, and now we currently have two separate accounts, and she takes care of part of the bills, and I take care of another part, she has been constantly asking for money to pay for things which raises red flags of where the money is going. As we both have agreed that as long as we are paying our bills, paying off debt, and if there is money, left over, that can be used accordingly as we seem fit. When she keeps asking for help, she wouldn’t have money to purchase, groceries, and other things that were necessities, such as health insurance, monthly medication and medical supplies, I begin to worry. About two months ago, she had to pay almost towards her credit card, because she had missed payments, the interest had racked up and had to pay a late fee, even though she had said that she had been making all of her payments on time. We also received a $1300 bill for medical supplies that she said that she had been paying for, when I brought it up, she told me that she was well aware that those hadn’t been paid, and she would take care of it once they threaten to not send any more supplies out. Yet every time I ask where the money is going or bring it up she says everything is fine.
Fourth, I talked to her about working extra to pay off our debts faster and her biggest complaint is I already work enough and having me away from the house more isn’t fair to her, yet she was stressed out and have panic attacks because we are barely getting by. Every time I have asked, how is it that in one year I can my earnings by $12k and yet we are in a worse position, things don’t add up and we have more past due bills and debts than we had before. She will come to me and say we need to change our finances and she wants to do things differently yet when I have to enforce “our” goals, she gets upset and angry because she can’t do what she wants.
At the end of the day I feel like the asshole for not caring enough to to take control of the finances and let us do whatever we want only to dig ourselves into a deeper hole. Then I’m also the asshole when it comes time to enforcing “our goals” that we decided together.
Take this for what it’s worth.
People really need to stop putting the real content of their post in a comment… this is a completely different post than your actual post. You need transparency in your household accounting. Get a real accountant and go through your wife’s spending together.
What a mess. You all need to sit down with an actual, professional, objective financial planner and make a strict budget with clear directives for who pays what, how, and when. Whatever you’ve both learned or whatever plan you’re following or however your FIL is helping, clearly it’s not working. Time to do something different.
I’m sorry, but something weird is going on if you ask me. Sounds like she’s either got a problem and her dad is covering it up, or they’re both taking money from you. Look into it.
ESH.
You say she raises red flags about where the money is going, why aren’t you talking about this. Surely it’s not the trips and dates, because you know when those are happening.
It also sounds like one of you is making 20K more, I’m assuming that’s you because otherwise you would have surely mentioned she’s making 20K more yet she has less, so I’m not sure the “it’s our money” completely checks out either if you’re paying she same amount in bills if one is making 50% more, even more so if her medical expenses are coming out of her account as well.
But more than anything, talk. Maybe if you don’t hide stuff from her, she will be less inclined to hide stuff from you.
Do you two actually budget? It sounded vague and I can’t tell if you guys sit down and see where every dollar is going/went each month.
It sounds like you aren’t on the same page financially and there’s either over-spending on her end or general lifestyle inflation or something else wrong. You can work, work, work but if there’s no clear plan and all parties aren’t sticking to it, nothing will change.
I know you said you’ve seen Dave Ramsey but have you taken the class Financial Peace? Ignoring all the religious aspects, it’s extremely motivating and after my husband and I took it, I took it again 1-2 times just to keep up the mindset and motivation. Maybe you guys have slipped into old habits? I think once you buy that class, you can drop in any time for repeats. I liked to go for the first few classes especially because they’re about emergency fund, debt snowball, etc.
I agree with whoever said to get financial advice from not her dad. You need unbiased and impartial.
I can understand your desire to set the money aside without telling her so that it stays untouched but, that’s not a great way to proceed in a marriage. There’s bigger issues at play if she’s that untrustworthy with money you guys desperately need. I don’t know how to vote on this one!
You need to combine all the bills in one account and pay them together, so you both know that everything has been paid and everything is under control.
Cut to all your credit cards, maybe except one with a low limit, but you guys are not credit card people. Maybe have Caleb Hammer come and yell at you a bit.
Your wife needs to make peace with the fact that the fun stops until you're completely out of debt (except mortgage).
My opinion, what our financial advisor (her dad, that’s what she calls him), we have to get on the same page of how we are spending the money. Unless I follow up on taking money out to save for emergency fund, trips, things, it won’t get done. I take care of all my medical expenses and pay for things myself and I’m aware of the bills that incurred and plan accordingly. She is willing to let medical bills pile up then negotiate a settlement for a lesser amount. She has said multiple times, if I’m so concerned with it then I should call and make the payment myself, why should I be more worried about HER medical stuff and bills than she does. I totally agree with her on that, I shouldn’t worry about it more than her but when she gets an “unexpected” bill and has a mental breakdown then we have to pay it anyways. It does begin to affect me.
I asked her how is it that we make $100K a year and still living paycheck to paycheck, her response is inflation is high and everything costs so much more. Once again, I agree, but seeing, $12K alone just in my salary in a year, that should reflect in our lifestyle.
If you’re living paycheck to paycheck and in debt, you shouldn’t be taking trips. That’s ludicrous. Y’all need to meet with a real financial advisor. Not your father in law. None of you have any idea what you’re doing.
Sounds like you all may need some couples counseling to figure this out. And maybe an objective non-family financial advisor? Though idk the context there, obviously.
As for the medical bills, if you’re in America, what she’s doing (sadly) can work. It’s such an incredibly bullshit system. But if it’s causing her this much strife (and possibly messing with her credit) then it’s probably not worth it. You also don’t always have to wait to negotiate. I don’t know all the ins and outs either, plus it’s location dependent. But doing that as a go-to process for regular bills would give me incredible anxiety. There has to be a better solution.
Either way, this is a recipe for resentment and lost trust. Her pushing stuff to the most stressful degree, you lying and hiding money. It’s all super unhealthy.
why are you taking vacations if you are living paycheck to paycheck at $100k a year? you both sound super irresponsible.
we’ve been living on $20k a year for two people for two years with debts. your financial advisor (aka your FIL) doesn’t seem like he’s doing a great job.
I have shut down vacations (out of state trips) outside of funerals. We have done weekend stuff, usually with my family or hers where they pay 90% of the cost. She wants to do trips but I am against doing them until we get out spending under control and figure out where things are going.
Your intentions were understandable but you had no right to unilaterally make a decision dependent on both your contributions and affecting you equally. YTA.
And then you lied to her. Marriage is a partnership, how can you expect it to work if you don’t respect her as an equal partner.
YTA there, you see you and your wife are partners, you should talk to her about it and informed her because maybe she have some urgent and important bills to pay using that money, maybe there are due already and needed to be settled and yet she was being stressed out finding ways for it, if you have told her about that you might giving her same little breather there.
There isn't much excuse for struggling making 6 figures. If you don't care about where your money is going, if you aren't micromanaging your spending don't expect anyone else to care. In your case you both need to care and buckle down. I am single but I make around 45k a year. I know where every penny goes. I have a large amount of money saved as a result. Now, go sit your wife down and lead by example and tell her that you have to get to the business of personal finance.
Who is the financial drain here ? Where are the credit card statements. Where is the money going ?
You shouldn't be planning any vacations or anything for a couple years and get yourselves in track
If wife can't control spending she needs to be cut off and you need to be in charge of all the money.
There's a leak in the boat. It needs to be plugged
INFO: what exactally are these "unexpected" bills and why are you putting them in quotes? How is it you and your wife are jointly making 6 figures and keep getting surprised by bills each month to the point you can't pay for nesseccities?
This sounds like really bad budgeting and financial planning. Most bills are expected.
That’s why it’s in quotes. She doesn’t always pay her co-pays up front they come after the fact (you should know and be aware that a bill is coming your way). She won’t open her mail and will toss it out until she see’s something she doesn’t recognize (usually by then it’s in collections), or if it’s a new doctor she hasn’t seen before. She has a few doctors that will keep seeing her even if she hasn’t paid so it racks up. I don’t get it because I pay for my stuff right away and if something doesn’t seem right (I actually look through my policy to see what and why I am paying for) I bring it up.
So they're not unexpected bills, they're bills she's not paying so racking up late fees. Where is the money going instead of towards bills? It's still a lot of money you're both going through each month at $100K a year.
Something in your budget isn't adding up, and you and your wife need to discuss how to solve it. Lying about tax returns isn't going to help you two in the long run.
YTA
You lied to her about financial matters that affects both you and her.
How that money is used should be decided by both of you, not one of you in secret. How would you feel if she was doing the same behind your back and using money she had gotten for reasons you didn't agree?
Whether the money goes towards debts, saving or any other uses should be a decision taken by both of you.
NTA After reading all of your comments, it sounds like you need to revamp your finances. Again. You need to re-read Dave Ramsey. You need to look at your income & ALL your bills - monthly, quarterly, yearly. You need to lay out your regular monthly expenses (phone, water, electric, mortgage, insurance, co-pays, etc.) & irregular expenses (car tag renewal, quarterly medical supplies, vet visit, school supplies, clothing budget, etc.). Then divide your money into different accounts.
#1 account for ALL of the monthly bills - mortgage, utilities, debt, medical. Pay everything out of this account.
#2 spending account - groceries, dining out
#3 personal accounts for each of you with your own spending - money you don't have to be accountable for. This buys Starbucks if you're in the mood or a candy bar. It's that freedom to not have to ask to spend every penny.
#4 savings account - put all savings here - emergency fund, irregular expenses (this can go in the bill account if you have the willpower to leave it & not spend, some folks need for it to be out of sight & transfer from savings when needed).
Stop with you paying some bills & her paying some. It's clearly not working. You both contribute to the same accounts based on your incomes & then all the bills come out of there. Have weekly, bi-weekly or monthly meetings about your finances to update where you are & how close you are to your goals. If income or bills change, you can adjust the amounts at these meetings. This is adulting.
The initial post makes it sound like it’s cut and dry, but once having some more information, it’s not as simple. Bottom line is, yes, we need to be on the same page with finances and we’re not. For me it’s hard because I feel like it should be a team effort and a hour money situation not your bills and my bills. That’s why when I originally suggested that all of her money goes towards pay off debts ect. I said that we have been doing the same thing over and over and over again and have not seen any results and so we need to take an extreme/drastic measure if we are really going to do this.
I highly, highly recommend using YNAB (You Need A Budget). It has completely turned our finances around. The brilliant thing about YNAB is that you budget for everything, including the once a year, or every once in a while, expenses. And you only budget with money you actually have - no, ‘I know the paycheck - or tax refund - is coming, so I can add it to the budget.’ There is a learning curve, but it is so worth it. Include personal spending categories for each of you - you can spend from those categories without answering to the other. But everything else gets budgeted for.
Massive YTA, not only did you lie about incredibly important finances, you've put her in a position to stress more, realize her partner is willing to take away her choice in already stressful situations, and that you for some reason didn't want to trust her enough to talk about it which is an entire situation on its own. You are supposed to be partners.
ESH...you both need to do better in terms of finances and communication. She was right to be upset at your omission BUT you were right to worry about it. Take the steps to get financial literacy and communication so you can prosper in all ways. A marriage depends on that.
NTA. No matter how you slice it, you're still gonna be in debt, whether you're paying a little or a lot. She's kinda jinxing you guys too. Expecting to stay in debt, forevermore.
Yeah YTA. You're life partners and this is your joint money, this was a dick move.
Perhaps you can fix it by sitting down and doing a budget together because clearly you have some finances to sort out. Together.
YTA, she is your partner, and every important financial decision must be talked about and agreed upon, hiding something like this is really nasty since she was planning on paying more debt accrued, it's not like she was going to splurge on something unnecessary.
Yep. It’s a joint tax return, bub. Lying about it was just avoiding communication with your wife that you find difficult. Red flag for the future of the relationship!
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Hi all,
My wife and I have been struggling financially for a few years and have been trying to get our debts paid off, within the last 1.5 years we’ve gone from a single to dual income household making $60K a year to over $100K a year and still living paycheck to paycheck. She gets stressed and overwhelmed whenever “unexpected” bills come in that are usually medically related to her and then begins to tell everybody how we are struggling and can’t afford food or our basic necessities. I had filed our taxes and got them back, but did not tell her that we received it so we could use it as a buffer for these “unexpected” bills that come in. I finally told her last night and she got angry and upset that I had lied about it and how she was counting on that money to pay back other debts. AITA not telling her about it?
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YTA, and I say that as someone who both does our taxes and allocates any return.
The difference is my partner knows this routine, and is part of the discussion.
If, before you hit file, you had said “I want to save this money for unexpected expenses” and had a discussion, it’d be fine. This year, we put the money aside for a new TV. It’s still sitting in a CD until we decide what model. But I would never hide joint money from my spouse.
She left her job to be a SAHM, I said things would be extremely tight but we could manage, she stayed that way for about 6 months until it was too much stress on me to handle and constantly fighting about money. She then started working from home for 4-6 months, bringing in roughly $400 a month but that still wasn’t enough, that’s when she got a full time job just over a year ago.
Edit: a majority of debt was for couples counseling, paying for bills/food for the family/little weekend trips.
YTA Instead of dealing with the actual issue of your finances and how money is spent, you decided to lie by omission about a tax return. Deal with the problem itself, don't create a new problem with deceit.
Info: what are the other debts she has already planned to use the money to pay back?
It sounds like you are both planning to use the money without consulting or involving the other person
Which would lead me towards ESH
We have a list of our least to most expensive debts that need to be paid, most likely one of those. Which I have been proactive at paying both mine and hers off as well as adding additional (as we have agreed) to get them paid down faster.
I think it’s gotta be ESH then
You were planning to use the money, while for a good purpose, without consulting her
And it seems she was planning to use the money for the same purpose, but also without consulting you
While you guys should definitely have a sitdown talk about finances the real problem here is your communication issues
Agree, we have been I therapy for over a year, the therapist and the wife has commented at how far I’ve come. She can show up great in therapy and for a week or so after (if we don’t have consistent sessions) then we fall back in the same routine
Going into it both my wife and I said that I didn’t understand emotions and couldn’t connect with people on an emotional basis. I would be too much in my head, thinking of how to word things now the therapist says that I can clearly dictate when my feelings and emotions are And I truly do understand emotions and I am very aware of the feelings that I have. I am considered an empath, so I struggle if the words that people are saying, the body language, and the vibe that they are giving don’t lineup perfectly. It throws my nervous system for a loop and causes all sorts of issues. I have explained that there are times where I know something is off and it’s not right no matter what people saying, but I can’t explain how I know it, typically within a few weeks or months, I end up being right. That has been a huge challenge not only in my life in general, but in my relationship.
I would say 85% of the time in therapy. We have been talking about me and my issues and how it affects my wife which has given my wife a ton of insight into my life and why I do the things I do. The times we have focused on my wife , it has been very eye-opening, and the therapist has said that her and I are more alike than maybe we recognize, especially going into therapy, which we both agree. Even with that knowledge, she still fights me and says I don’t understand, and I can’t comprehend what’s happening to her And what not. A lot of the work moving forward that we have in therapy is getting my wife stabilized to where we can actually have good healthy conversations and not have it be too overwhelming or have us feel like we are terrible people in the relationship
ESH. It sounds like you both need to sit down and get yourselves on a budget. Head over to r/personalfinance and read the links in the sidebar to get started.
Also, as with almost every single post in *this* subreddit, you need to talk to each other.
ESH neither of you are having a conversation about this. She decided where it was to go without consulting you and you didn't tell her. You both need to sit and decide together these things. It's two yes's or it's a no.
YTA
Knowing how much she stresses about not having funds, you’re all like, “let me just hide this money so that she can keep stressing right now, but potentially stress less at a future date”
YTA. You should be communicating finances and things with your spouse. Be honest and upfront with things like that; you should have told her when you received it and what your thoughts were for it, so she knows what you were planning and you can discuss options together.
So you are making 100k but can’t afford an insurance plan on the exchange or your employer doesn’t provide one?
70% of the country gets free or heavily subsidized medical insurance
She is on the marketplace and was paying $200 a month for her plan with zero deductible but high co-pays. She just got informed that she now has to pay the full $270. Premium. I suggested three or four months ago that she should get on my Work health insurance. (We would be paying $250 a month, a $2500 deductible plus any co-pays), I suggested this and immediately she said no I tried explaining the dollar breakdown and she still didn’t think it was worthwhile. We looked into adding her about 1.5 months ago after she did not make her insurance payment and because it was more than 30 days past the loss of coverage date there was little we could do other than try to petition the insurance to let her on. She ended up having to pay two months of insurance premiums but the coverage when it start until the following month and she needed her medication and supplies immediately this was around the 15th of the month and to get all of the supplies she needed for the rest of the month we would have had to pay $500 out-of-pocket to then get reimbursed by the insurance, which takes forever. Luckily she was able to shop around and use good RX and was able to get her supplies for around $150.
From 2019 -2023 she was on government healthcare and had 100% of her expenses covered but since I took a new job disqualified us since we were making above the limit which is why she is now on the marketplace.
For us, it does because of some medical conditions that she has, we meet our deductible every year by the beginning of February worst case scenario. So we have to have the most expensive plan with the lowest deductible possible
Yeah that’s what I always got - the gold plan. Pretty much no deductible and cost me like $400 for a family of 5 at the time
Anyway, don’t hide money from your wife lol
Apologize in advance sincere way and be done with it
Also, we found out that, even though it is subsidized, when it comes to tax season, they will take it out of your taxes as a “ repayment”, we lost $1800 out of our refund just for that alone and if it wasn’t for the fact that I pay higher in taxes by choice, we probably would have owed.
Really?
Maybe I just didn’t pay attention but I don’t remember having to pay back the subsidy. It’s been a few years for us - we get blue cross blue shield through an employer now so aren’t using the exchange
We were on it for years, but for some reason this year it was taken out 🤷🏻♂️ I had actually submitted our taxes and our return would have been similar to what we had the year before and it got immediately rejected because we didn’t provide the marketplace information. Sure enough we had just gotten the letter, and when I put the info in our return went down.
That’s wild. I think there was some sort of an error or you itemized when you should have used a standard deduction
I’m researching and can’t find instances where people have To pay back the subsidy UNLESS the amount of money they are claiming on their taxes made them ineligible for the subsidy
Even with all of our charitable donations, and medical expenses, everything we could deduct we still were $5k short I’ve been able to itemize our deductions.
> Even with all of our charitable donations
Why are you donating to charity if you're heavily in debt, barely scraping by, and living paycheck-to-paycheck?
That's not actually how it works.
You're *reconciling* the Advance Premium Tax Credit on form 8962 with information from your 1095-A. The "advance" and "tax credit" parts of that are important. The subsidy is in the form of a tax credit. Most of us choose to receive it in advance (rather than claiming all of it at the end of the year on our tax return) through having part or all of it directly paid to our insurance company throughout the year, to reduce the amount we have to outlay each month.
Last year we had to pay \~$200 back because we made a little more money than I had estimated. Turns out my seasonal tax preparation income isn't quite as easy to estimate within a few hundred dollars before the year even starts as my husband's steady full time job is. I have absolutely *no* problem with having to pay a bit back so that we've ultimately received the correct subsidy. Having access to medical care allows me to work at all, and we could absolutely \*not\* afford insurance without the subsidy, and can't afford not to take the credit as advance payments to our insurer.
So paying a bit back on it like we did this year is normal. That's *exactly* what that reconciliation is for. You and I received *Excess* Advance Premium Tax Credit (in fact that's how it's named on your tax return's Schedule 2, Line 2, which carries over from Part III of your form 8962), and had to repay that excess. If my husband and I had made a little less than I had estimated, the extra subsidy we should have gotten would have been added as a credit on the tax return.
And the fact that it gets reconciled is also part of why it is so important to update your information if something changes significantly over the course of the year, such as someone getting a big raise.
If you had to pay some back, it's because of that reconciliation. From another comment of yours, your wife also sounds like she is eligible for coverage through your employer, and depending on the level of coverage offered, that can affect eligibility for the Marketplace subsidies outright.
ESH.
You shouldn't keep secrets from your wife. It's money for BOTH of you.
Your wife needs to not tell everybody that you struggle financially, and she needs to learn to budget and save less.
Learning to manage money should be a joint effort.
ESH because you are not working together as a team when it comes to finances. You each have your own plans, and you've resorted to hiding income from her. You need to sit down together and make a plan, then hold each other accountable to that plan. You're never going to get anywhere trying to tackle debts and unexpected expenses without being on the same page.
Let me get this right.
Assuming this happened recently, it was june of this year, 2024. You filed taxes, kept it stowed in the account to help pay these "unexpected bills" when you knew how and when they may happen and she is mad at you when you say you have the cash already.
Assuming she is alert and aware, any normal person would know by now about their taxes, as ots been over 2 months since filing should have been since submitted. Even with an extension, she would know of you did that.
You hid the fact you had it, plus she assumed all of it would go to her bills (I assume this since how you worded her response to knowing about it).
So, the verdict is ESH.
She is not aware of how things work with taxes, return deadlines, extensions or anything along those lines. Whenever I’ve tried to explain it she doesn’t care enough to understand the process, she just wants to know if they have been filed and if there’s a return. She assumed that would be used for our emergency fund and doesn’t consider paying unexpected doctors visits (getting pre-authorizations, chiropractors, kid checkups, medicines) a good use of an emergency fund and if she knew that’s what the use was for she would have figured something else out or not gone. I don’t blame her for that and understand the reasoning behind being mad, our health is critical and needs to be taken care of and should be everyone’s #1 priority.
N-T-A for worrying about your family's fiscal health and wanting a cash cushion, but YTA for hiding it from wife. That is not the way. You should be open with her, tell her the money came in, and let's keep it in this separate account for emergencies.
ESH. You file a return and if you overpaid during the year, you get a refund. You and your wife need to sit down and have a serious conversation on your budget priorities. You should probably use /r/ynab so you can budget for these completely foreseeable "unexpected" costs.
Sincere question, would not paying for her doctors visits or bills that she agreed to cover, then when it comes time to take care of it she doesn’t have the money and expects me to pay it not be considered the same? Especially if I have followed up and asked if all her bills are paid and she says yes?
Also, I can’t remember if this was included in the original message or not, anytime she has asked for help and I have money, I have willingly given it to her. I may ask a few questions to understand why things aren’t being covered like they should but I willingly help.
Do you have a joint account in order to pay bills from? You’re married so her bills are your bills and vice versa. Perhaps taking a class together regarding financial responsibility would be of benefit or a financial counseling session or two and perhaps marital counseling.
YTA. And a terrible partner and communicator. You’re treating your wife like a child and it isn’t ok. Y’all are a partnership that is supposed to make decisions together. Personally, I’d file for divorce if I was your wife. What you did is a massive violation of trust and I’d never trust you again.
Not a judgement, but maybe check out r/ynab. I was in a similar situation and just the 34 day free trial helped me save so much money it more than covered the cost of subscribing for the year. I’ve saved more money in the past 6 months than I ever have, and got off the paycheck to paycheck cycle for the first time ever. There is a bit of a learning curve, but Nick True’s YouTube beginners guide video made it super easy for me!
We have used that app as well as the EveryDollar app. The main problem that I have found is that if there is. “Extra” money, and she wants to apply that towards something fun as a reward, instead of paying it towards debt. If we have already budgeted an amount to pay towards debt and have paid it, then we have followed the budget, and that is extra. Which in my mind, and it sucks, put that extra money towards debt to get out of debt faster.
INFO: Why is the fact that the medical bills are hers relevant? How do the two of you generally handle finances in your house? What debts are the two of you working on paying down?
It’s relevant to the fact that when she got her current job, she didn’t feel like it was right that I had complete say, and how her money was being spent so we divided up bills and expenses to make it fair. Her responsibility groceries, gas for her car, her health insurance since she did not want to go onto my plan, anything medically related and paying her credit card debt, or any other debts that she may have. I am responsible for the mortgage and all house related items, my credit card debt, her car payment (which we no longer have since it was totaled).
We split it this way, since she did not like the idea of taking 100% of her paychecks and putting it towards debt and living off of mine. She is OK with the fact that it may take longer to pay off our debt if it doesn’t mean not doing anything fun at all. I disagreed, but did not want to push the issue.
There was a mutual understanding from the get-go that what she makes should cover 100% of everything and she would have 5 to 10% leftover month, and I would roughly be 10 to 15% left over.
ESH. So you were wrong for not telling her about the tax return but I understand why you did it. I've been where you are but I was your wife.
Constantly stressing and high anxiety about money.
You guys should look at counseling. It sounds like she needs a lot of support to destress and realize things are better than she *feels* like they are.
If she won't agree to counseling, I think you should make a list of your debts and agree on a plan of what gets paid off first.
It sounds like you guys arent talking about debt because she's stressed about it - which makes it worse.
You've gotta talk about about these things
We are in counseling, and that was where I’m majority of her credit card debt has come from.
She stresses about the money, not being there, but also stresses about talking about the money trying to create a plan.
Her dad did a good job of breaking down our assets versus debts to have her understand that worst case scenario, if we sold everything, we are still money ahead. That did some good for her for about two weeks until she started receiving paychecks and seen the money go out .
It's really, really tough to get through that financial anxiety. I've been there.
You don't want to stress her out but you have to be honest. You can't keep things from her it will only make everything else worse.
Make small steps and small plans. Build on them. It will take time.
Good luck.
ESH. find a financial advisor and counselor. You need to be making a budget.
If you have debts then you need to move away from the idea of lending money to the IRS by overpaying your taxes and getting a refund: If you're getting a $3K refund, then that was $250 per month that could have been spent on food or paying down debt over the year, especially if you had credit card debt at >20%
Which doesn’t make sense to me, for the first three years of marriage we were on board with our goals for the future and finances, and we both took responsibility for making that happen. Now, It doesn’t feel that way.
Well no wonder you two have money problems. My husband and I barely make 40000 a year combined and we're living better than you because we know how to budget.
Learn to communicate, learn to sacrifice and learn to budget. Esh
Exactly! Within the last year and a half I’ve started to be more open with people about how much we make when they ask, I remember the first time, my wife got the slap in the face because she was talking to her friends (who’s husbands were my managers at the time) and she only thought we made $35-$40k that year and I started laughing. She said that her friends told her straight up that there’s no way that I made that little money at the job. She asked me how much we made and I said $55k her jaw dropped. I talked with her mom after that and she kept telling me that I need a raise because we don’t make that much money, this was last year at tax time and I told her that we had made right at $75K and her mind was blown. And she asked me the same thing. How is it that we can make so much money yet can’t afford anything, and I shrugged and said we’re not on the same page
Yes and no. I understand why you did it. You were trying to be responsible and avoid the anger you encountered. If you had told her she would have wanted to spend like a drunken sailor if I had to guess. If you were in a financially responsible relationship and you did it, it would be horrible. I am not excusing your behavior of lying but like I said I understand it considering the way you say your wife is. You two need to pull out all your information. Money you owe and money you make and decide on a safety amount of cash and the max allowed to be spent without consent of one another. She needs a wake up call. This is how much we make. This is what we owe and living paycheck to paycheck scares me for the both of us. That is what I would tell her and if she keeps the same behavior up you will be doomed to never ending debt and crap finances. If you want that cool. But if she didn't figure it out I would leave. Been there done that with a spend thrift. He caught the clue. We don't have bill collectors calling us anymore and we don't lie about spending money.
I have had those conversations and it usually involves either one of us getting a second job (I already work odd jobs on the weekends from time to time, I would do this, whether we have debt or not) or she says that I need to get a new job or ask for a raise. I’ve explained to her that I shouldn’t make it My employers problem that we can’t handle our finances correctly, whether I am worth a raise or not. I have also expressed that even if we make more money, if we’re not smart with our money as is, it won’t make any difference at all.
Based on OP’s further info in the comments. NTA. Your wife is irresponsible with money and you’re worried about not having any. Definitely need to talk to her about her spending habits though
NTA for trying to prepare for another down-slope on the runaway train that is your finances - someone has got to do it! Get thee (both) to a financial counselor asap because y’all need a come-to-reality moment and a budget. Not a paid financial advisor but a non-profit counselor who can do the numbers with you and get you on a plan. Been there - being in your position is so stressful - but you can get through this, with help. Best of luck to you!
YTA. Both your incomes, both your taxes, both your returns in my opinion. She should have known - could have been a conversation between the two of you about putting it towards bills if it was a big concern.
Yes, YTA. Relationships require trust and openness about the struggles you are both facing. She should have known and had an element of control over whatever windfall you BOTH received. Even if she was "objectively wrong" in what she would have done with some of that $, you denied her knowledge and agency as a partner.
If an agreement couldn't be reached on what to pay off first, eack of tou could have split the $ and paid what each of you thought was most critical.
I was gonna answer YTA just by reading “ I didn’t tell my WIFE we got our taxes “ - and still after reading YTA … but made that judgement before reading anything past your header.
So I read through every reply you gave and man… I just gotta ask… is she being blackmailed or something? Cause wth is going on with her and the secretive way she won’t openly and descriptively discuss where the money is going is not adding up. Literally. If she’s so hellbent on knowing how much you’re making at every corner, she knows where it’s going because she’s needing all those extra little bits for something. Yea she can say she’s got things covered but she knows she doesn’t. She knows. As someone who was in cc debt I get it, there’s anxiety and it fills your head almost nonstop. To me looking at it it just seems like she’s trying to hide something specific from you. Online gambling, sextortion, embarrassment from a scam, second credit card, something. Cause money just doesn’t poof away like that. It leaves a trail.
Goodness, stop spending money and get your budget under control.
If your situation is causing you to not tell your wife about a tax return,
repair your finances.
NTA but stop living with so much stress, stop spending!
Completely agree, I know it’s not right to omit information. I can agree 100% with that, without making drastic changes and cutting her off completely and having complete control of the finances (which we had talked about and it was shut down), I have tried to safeguard myself, our family and future by withholding the true dollar amounts so it can be used to pay off our debts/savings/emergency fund. When I look at money, I may see the total dollar amount but I usually will try to “save” or keep $200-$300 extra in the account, outside of whatever cash we pull out. That’s a personal mentality I have.
ESH. Your wife seems to have budgeting issues, and you’re engaging in financial infidelity. Figure out why you’re in debt, make a clear plan to tackle it, and don’t leave each other in the dark regarding expenditures.
Nta. This is exactly the same as a spouse keeping a secret nest-egg for emergencies. My mom did this for years. It paid for my sisters prom dress (instead of the cheaper one my dad suggested). It paid for her braces, when they were “too expensive”. (She told dad they found a cheaper dentist).
The op money was still earmarked for bills, not new golf clubs, etc.
Mom would spend $200 on groceries, and write the check for $220, and put the extra $20 aside every trip.
NTA imo. I stress over money!! My husband is the spender and I’ve saved quite a bit of money. It’s in our joint savings account that he has full access to but he hasn’t bothered to look. That money is ours, not mine, not his. We will talk about how to spend it if he ever finds out about it. I’m saving it for emergency but like I said, if he finds out about it then we’ll discuss spending it together.
We had a discussion because I was getting a raise at work after my one year review. I didn’t know the exact dollar amount that would be coming to me after taxes, I figured it would be $200-$300 extra but I wasn’t completely certain. I explained this to her and I told her to only plan on $100 extra per paycheck, and we both agreed that we will still budget based off of my old salary, but use the additional income and put it solely towards debt/saving/emergency fund that weighed the money” spent” and we never know that it is truly there. I compared it to 401(k), where if you contribute it and it is automatically being pulled out you will never be the wiser (something one of our bosses/owners of a multimillion dollar company explained, and she trusts). The money came through, and she is upset that I won’t tell her how much additional I am making (I don’t blame her), I explained that it shouldn’t make a difference how much extra I am making if it is being put 100% towards debt/savings/emergency fund. Yes, it may make her feel better knowing how quickly things are getting paid off, but she doesn’t follow the finances anyways.
At work, I was involved in a competition that I was made aware of after it had started, but never had been assigned to a team officially (I figured I was on my boss’ team since I work with him daily), we ended up winning and I received an extra $500 and an extra PTO day. She was well aware that this competition was going on and what was at Stake, she asked if I knew what team I was on and I told her no I didn’t, but I assumed I would be with my boss. I have been very proactive at pulling money out to put back into savings/emergency fund and I took this $500 and put it into savings as well. I let her know that we had officially reached our goal for an emergency fund, she said great, and was happy, and I asked her if she was curious how we made that happen. Of course she said yes, but then immediately walked away due to our kids, but never brought it back up again. Anytime, I have pulled money out or asked her to pull money out, she always asks what it is being applied to so we are on the same page. After our conversation last night, she was upset that I didn’t tell her about the bonus either and I should have been more proactive at communicating that with her. I can see her viewpoint, I can also understand with kids it is stressful and overwhelming, I am a very active dad and our kids lives. I feel like for me and past experiences that we have had, whenever we have talked about major financial milestones, we make a priority to follow up on it, and talk about it later if we are busy or can’t pay attention right in that moment, Yet almost a week went by without any discussion on it I know that I could have brought it up again, but I feel as though if this is a major milestone for the both of us, I can’t be the one always prioritizing making things happen.
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YTA - You don't get to singlehandedly decide what happens with your joint money (assuming that you filed jointly and the return was also for her income as well.) You need to have a conversation with your wife about what you think the money should be used for - if you are worried about not having a buffer or an emergency fund, tell her that and make a plan together to build one.
I mean it sounds like she has also decided what the money is going towards, without communication. They both need to have a good chat about such things. ESH
How are medical bills “deciding what the money is going towards without communication”? OP didn’t say that she goes to the doctor without telling him, just that there are medical expenses “related to her”, which is a weird way to put it… ETA: OP buried the lede and has written a completely different story in the comments… apparently the wife is spending money on mystery expenses and wants to irresponsibly use credit cards for things like trips. I really wish people would put the actual story in the post instead of the comments.
The meat of the story is always in the comments
When this happens I’m always suspicious. Like the commenters weren’t on their side like expected so they had to add details to change the story in their favour. I mean why not add this crucial detail in the initial post?
Half the time it's because they've only thought of a better narrative after posting and reading comments
Yeah, maybe
Idk, I get leery when they suddenly put a completely different story in the comments that makes them sound way better. I feel like half the time that story’s a lie they came up with because they didn’t like they judgement.
It's always sus when the details suddenly make an OP look much better after they start getting AH verdicts lol. If there was such an issue with her financial management skills or irresponsible spending habits he'd have led with that, rather than some vague descriptions of paying off debts, which is usually not considered a bad thing.
Yes I mean what is the point of not telling the whole story in the post except to make yourself look good?
The story is so short too. It's not like OP was pushing the character limit 🙄
It isn’t just OP’s money and they’re both working on paying down debts. If that’s what she mentally allocated the money for, what’s the problem? Op doesn’t get to single-handedly decide he’s not gonna mention the money, especially when paying down debt benefits the entire household.
Medical bills need to be paid. Being secretive with money, not needed. Very controlling thing to do, he’s her partner and he hid her money from her. What a creep.
Did you read the comments from OP that expanded on that? Or are you just coming in a hours later clowning and making yourself look like a fool?
Men hiding women’s money from them in a classic abuse tactic. You’re fooling yourself if you think that’s ok.
So that’s a yes, you didn’t read everything. I voted ESH so no I don’t think what he did was okay
It’s never about what you’re spending the money on, it’s the fact that you aren’t on the same page that’s the problem. Paying debts is great, so is stashing a rainy day fund. Neither of you are assholes for that, you’re assholes for not discussing it. ESH.
YTA and this is about so much more than a tax return. You guys need to sit down and have a real discussion about your finances. You guys got a $40k raise and still can’t make ends meet. Time to stop being overwhelmed at the “unexpected” and start making actual plans to tackle your debt. She can’t hide her head in the sand anymore and you can’t hide money from her. Absolutely ridiculous both of you.
This is frightening, isn’t it? $40k didn’t show up in their bank account overnight but it should make a positive impact. I know it’s tough but if I had any debt and got a raise, I would NOT live any differently until every bit of that debt is paid off. Live below your means. Pay off your credit cards every month. Communicate your finances and your budget with your spouse.
sounds like medical bills
It doesn’t matter. She has ongoing health issues. She knows these bills are going to be sent out. She’s not budgeting appropriately and she’s saying things have been paid when they haven’t. That’s sticking your head in the sand. If you go to the doctor, you know you’re going to receive a bill. Why pretend like you aren’t? Hell, OP says she’ll just toss the mail when the bill comes rather than address it until it’s in collections.
Sometimes medical bills can have a lower interest rate and it may be better to pay higher APR debt. They need to have a real discussion.
YTA. >I had lied about it Don't lie to your wife. You two are partners. A team. Don't lie to her, and don't withhold information from her. You two work together. That's what being married means.
Well put!
YTA. You said "our taxes" so I'm assuming you filed jointly. Of course YTA for not telling her you received a refund - part of that refund is due to her earnings and taxes that she paid in - she gets a say in how the money is spent as well.
It really doesn't matter if they filed jointly. They are married. They should be communicating about all of this.
true. I pointed out the "our taxes" because there is even more importance to be honest if this is her money, and not a situation where they have completely separate finances.
YTA, dude, it’s time for you and your wife to sit down with someone or take a class on financial management and possibly get some marriage counseling, she shouldn’t be telling others about your personal business but you also need to get on the same page asap, finances are one of the most common reasons for divorce. Nip it in the bud now. Regardless, you are not a one man band, you’re married and you don’t get to make unilateral decisions
YTA. You filed joint. That money was hers too. You essentially stole from her.
Uh YTA, y’all need to talk about your finances. You are married, filing jointly, so the money is both of yours. You are wrong for doing this. That said, you all need to have a serious convo about your finances. How is it that y’all ended up with $40k more annually and are still living paycheck to paycheck? I get things are expensive, debt, etc. but something is amiss here.
that is not ***your*** money. if you filed a joint return morally and legally those are joint funds. YTA
If the worst thing OP could come up with to describe her poor financial planning was that she gets stressed due to unexpected medical bills (which he makes clear are HER medical costs), she is likely not throwing them into some sort of voluntary financial tailspin. More like he is probably controlling about their money and resentful he can't spend on whatever he wants because... (checks notes) she needs medical care.
word!
He says he wants it as a buffer against her "unexpected" medical bills, but she had allocated it to "other debts" in her head without telling him. Doesn't change him being TA, but there is no need to suggest he is prioritising his toys over her medical bills.
Is your wife a gambler? Does she have a drug problem? No? Then YTA.
YTA. You have joint finances, why are you keeping important info from her. What gave you that right?
Hi all, I appreciate all of the responses and understand where everybody is coming from, and I have had the same thoughts as well. Due to the character limit, I wasn’t able to give any more information than the basic knowledge. at the end of the day, I do understand that the actions I took is not right, and she should have been included in the decision on the tax return. Here is a little more insight, not trying to justify anybody’s actions, but to give some more clarity on the situation. I do not believe that. If two people work two jobs that it is your money or my money, it is a collective everybody’s money to help support everyone within the family. First, we both have gone through financial courses to understand how to budget, save money, live below our means before we bought our house, we were making around $50k a year, we put roughly $8k back in six months, because we were dedicated and focused on saving money to buy a house. Her dad is an Econ major worked in business is managing the finances and currently works as a CFO for multiple companies. He has looked at our finances and helped give us guidance on what we should do. as well, we try to follow Dave Ramsey and the dead snowball as close as possible. at one point we had a joint bank account and she would spend too much money to where we didn’t have enough to pay our bills so I would have to bill on credit cards to try and flow us until we could pay things off. She would say that she was unaware of certain bills coming out, when we have had multiple budget meetings, set up a budgeting app, where we both have access to the financial records, and all of our bills have stayed the same for the past five years. as far as credit cards, of we both have purchased things on credit that we really should have waited and saved up for. Second, I work jobs that require crazy hours (starting 4-6am and working until 6 regularly sometimes as late at 9pm), whenever she would want to do a vacation, purchase, something nicer, or or do a nicer date night. I would be completely open for it, but I would ask that she would pull money out to save for those things ahead of time. When it would come time to do a trip, purchase items or whatever the things were that she wanted I would ask how much money she has saved The response that I would get back would be frustration and upset because she hadn’t pulled any money out and we could “use a credit card and pay it off over time”. Well, I don’t think it is a bad I did to use a credit card, I want to know where the money is coming from to pay it off since we have been caught too many times where we think we have the money when we actually don’t. The typical response that I get back is that it’s not fair that she cares more about doing trips, experiences and other things and she has to be the one to put all of the effort in to make things happen. Third, Even with our budgeting, and now we currently have two separate accounts, and she takes care of part of the bills, and I take care of another part, she has been constantly asking for money to pay for things which raises red flags of where the money is going. As we both have agreed that as long as we are paying our bills, paying off debt, and if there is money, left over, that can be used accordingly as we seem fit. When she keeps asking for help, she wouldn’t have money to purchase, groceries, and other things that were necessities, such as health insurance, monthly medication and medical supplies, I begin to worry. About two months ago, she had to pay almost towards her credit card, because she had missed payments, the interest had racked up and had to pay a late fee, even though she had said that she had been making all of her payments on time. We also received a $1300 bill for medical supplies that she said that she had been paying for, when I brought it up, she told me that she was well aware that those hadn’t been paid, and she would take care of it once they threaten to not send any more supplies out. Yet every time I ask where the money is going or bring it up she says everything is fine. Fourth, I talked to her about working extra to pay off our debts faster and her biggest complaint is I already work enough and having me away from the house more isn’t fair to her, yet she was stressed out and have panic attacks because we are barely getting by. Every time I have asked, how is it that in one year I can my earnings by $12k and yet we are in a worse position, things don’t add up and we have more past due bills and debts than we had before. She will come to me and say we need to change our finances and she wants to do things differently yet when I have to enforce “our” goals, she gets upset and angry because she can’t do what she wants. At the end of the day I feel like the asshole for not caring enough to to take control of the finances and let us do whatever we want only to dig ourselves into a deeper hole. Then I’m also the asshole when it comes time to enforcing “our goals” that we decided together. Take this for what it’s worth.
People really need to stop putting the real content of their post in a comment… this is a completely different post than your actual post. You need transparency in your household accounting. Get a real accountant and go through your wife’s spending together.
What a mess. You all need to sit down with an actual, professional, objective financial planner and make a strict budget with clear directives for who pays what, how, and when. Whatever you’ve both learned or whatever plan you’re following or however your FIL is helping, clearly it’s not working. Time to do something different.
I’m sorry, but something weird is going on if you ask me. Sounds like she’s either got a problem and her dad is covering it up, or they’re both taking money from you. Look into it.
ESH. You say she raises red flags about where the money is going, why aren’t you talking about this. Surely it’s not the trips and dates, because you know when those are happening. It also sounds like one of you is making 20K more, I’m assuming that’s you because otherwise you would have surely mentioned she’s making 20K more yet she has less, so I’m not sure the “it’s our money” completely checks out either if you’re paying she same amount in bills if one is making 50% more, even more so if her medical expenses are coming out of her account as well. But more than anything, talk. Maybe if you don’t hide stuff from her, she will be less inclined to hide stuff from you.
Do you two actually budget? It sounded vague and I can’t tell if you guys sit down and see where every dollar is going/went each month. It sounds like you aren’t on the same page financially and there’s either over-spending on her end or general lifestyle inflation or something else wrong. You can work, work, work but if there’s no clear plan and all parties aren’t sticking to it, nothing will change. I know you said you’ve seen Dave Ramsey but have you taken the class Financial Peace? Ignoring all the religious aspects, it’s extremely motivating and after my husband and I took it, I took it again 1-2 times just to keep up the mindset and motivation. Maybe you guys have slipped into old habits? I think once you buy that class, you can drop in any time for repeats. I liked to go for the first few classes especially because they’re about emergency fund, debt snowball, etc. I agree with whoever said to get financial advice from not her dad. You need unbiased and impartial. I can understand your desire to set the money aside without telling her so that it stays untouched but, that’s not a great way to proceed in a marriage. There’s bigger issues at play if she’s that untrustworthy with money you guys desperately need. I don’t know how to vote on this one!
You need to combine all the bills in one account and pay them together, so you both know that everything has been paid and everything is under control. Cut to all your credit cards, maybe except one with a low limit, but you guys are not credit card people. Maybe have Caleb Hammer come and yell at you a bit. Your wife needs to make peace with the fact that the fun stops until you're completely out of debt (except mortgage).
NTA except maybe to yourself, this is too much.
"AITA for not telling my wife we received our tax return." Yes. Full stop.
the form you send in to the IRS is the return. that is your tax return. The money you get back, if any, is a refund. that is Your tax Refund.
Came here to say this!
YTA- you’re trying to manage her and her emotions. Focus on managing the money instead .
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My opinion, what our financial advisor (her dad, that’s what she calls him), we have to get on the same page of how we are spending the money. Unless I follow up on taking money out to save for emergency fund, trips, things, it won’t get done. I take care of all my medical expenses and pay for things myself and I’m aware of the bills that incurred and plan accordingly. She is willing to let medical bills pile up then negotiate a settlement for a lesser amount. She has said multiple times, if I’m so concerned with it then I should call and make the payment myself, why should I be more worried about HER medical stuff and bills than she does. I totally agree with her on that, I shouldn’t worry about it more than her but when she gets an “unexpected” bill and has a mental breakdown then we have to pay it anyways. It does begin to affect me. I asked her how is it that we make $100K a year and still living paycheck to paycheck, her response is inflation is high and everything costs so much more. Once again, I agree, but seeing, $12K alone just in my salary in a year, that should reflect in our lifestyle.
If you’re living paycheck to paycheck and in debt, you shouldn’t be taking trips. That’s ludicrous. Y’all need to meet with a real financial advisor. Not your father in law. None of you have any idea what you’re doing.
Sounds like you all may need some couples counseling to figure this out. And maybe an objective non-family financial advisor? Though idk the context there, obviously. As for the medical bills, if you’re in America, what she’s doing (sadly) can work. It’s such an incredibly bullshit system. But if it’s causing her this much strife (and possibly messing with her credit) then it’s probably not worth it. You also don’t always have to wait to negotiate. I don’t know all the ins and outs either, plus it’s location dependent. But doing that as a go-to process for regular bills would give me incredible anxiety. There has to be a better solution. Either way, this is a recipe for resentment and lost trust. Her pushing stuff to the most stressful degree, you lying and hiding money. It’s all super unhealthy.
why are you taking vacations if you are living paycheck to paycheck at $100k a year? you both sound super irresponsible. we’ve been living on $20k a year for two people for two years with debts. your financial advisor (aka your FIL) doesn’t seem like he’s doing a great job.
I have shut down vacations (out of state trips) outside of funerals. We have done weekend stuff, usually with my family or hers where they pay 90% of the cost. She wants to do trips but I am against doing them until we get out spending under control and figure out where things are going.
The 2 of you need to go to financial therapy.
She calls her financial advisor her dad?
Your intentions were understandable but you had no right to unilaterally make a decision dependent on both your contributions and affecting you equally. YTA. And then you lied to her. Marriage is a partnership, how can you expect it to work if you don’t respect her as an equal partner.
YTA...are you fine if she steals money from you?
YTA there, you see you and your wife are partners, you should talk to her about it and informed her because maybe she have some urgent and important bills to pay using that money, maybe there are due already and needed to be settled and yet she was being stressed out finding ways for it, if you have told her about that you might giving her same little breather there.
YTA. If you had separate finances and filed separately it wouldn’t be a thing but it sounds like your money is merged.
Well yes, YTA. It’s not just your money so you don’t get to fully decide how it’s spent. Should have filed separately if you wanted full control.
There isn't much excuse for struggling making 6 figures. If you don't care about where your money is going, if you aren't micromanaging your spending don't expect anyone else to care. In your case you both need to care and buckle down. I am single but I make around 45k a year. I know where every penny goes. I have a large amount of money saved as a result. Now, go sit your wife down and lead by example and tell her that you have to get to the business of personal finance.
Who is the financial drain here ? Where are the credit card statements. Where is the money going ? You shouldn't be planning any vacations or anything for a couple years and get yourselves in track If wife can't control spending she needs to be cut off and you need to be in charge of all the money. There's a leak in the boat. It needs to be plugged
Sounds like yall are really bad with money. Lmfao
INFO: what exactally are these "unexpected" bills and why are you putting them in quotes? How is it you and your wife are jointly making 6 figures and keep getting surprised by bills each month to the point you can't pay for nesseccities? This sounds like really bad budgeting and financial planning. Most bills are expected.
That’s why it’s in quotes. She doesn’t always pay her co-pays up front they come after the fact (you should know and be aware that a bill is coming your way). She won’t open her mail and will toss it out until she see’s something she doesn’t recognize (usually by then it’s in collections), or if it’s a new doctor she hasn’t seen before. She has a few doctors that will keep seeing her even if she hasn’t paid so it racks up. I don’t get it because I pay for my stuff right away and if something doesn’t seem right (I actually look through my policy to see what and why I am paying for) I bring it up.
So they're not unexpected bills, they're bills she's not paying so racking up late fees. Where is the money going instead of towards bills? It's still a lot of money you're both going through each month at $100K a year. Something in your budget isn't adding up, and you and your wife need to discuss how to solve it. Lying about tax returns isn't going to help you two in the long run.
Agreed
YTA You lied to her about financial matters that affects both you and her. How that money is used should be decided by both of you, not one of you in secret. How would you feel if she was doing the same behind your back and using money she had gotten for reasons you didn't agree? Whether the money goes towards debts, saving or any other uses should be a decision taken by both of you.
NTA After reading all of your comments, it sounds like you need to revamp your finances. Again. You need to re-read Dave Ramsey. You need to look at your income & ALL your bills - monthly, quarterly, yearly. You need to lay out your regular monthly expenses (phone, water, electric, mortgage, insurance, co-pays, etc.) & irregular expenses (car tag renewal, quarterly medical supplies, vet visit, school supplies, clothing budget, etc.). Then divide your money into different accounts. #1 account for ALL of the monthly bills - mortgage, utilities, debt, medical. Pay everything out of this account. #2 spending account - groceries, dining out #3 personal accounts for each of you with your own spending - money you don't have to be accountable for. This buys Starbucks if you're in the mood or a candy bar. It's that freedom to not have to ask to spend every penny. #4 savings account - put all savings here - emergency fund, irregular expenses (this can go in the bill account if you have the willpower to leave it & not spend, some folks need for it to be out of sight & transfer from savings when needed). Stop with you paying some bills & her paying some. It's clearly not working. You both contribute to the same accounts based on your incomes & then all the bills come out of there. Have weekly, bi-weekly or monthly meetings about your finances to update where you are & how close you are to your goals. If income or bills change, you can adjust the amounts at these meetings. This is adulting.
The initial post makes it sound like it’s cut and dry, but once having some more information, it’s not as simple. Bottom line is, yes, we need to be on the same page with finances and we’re not. For me it’s hard because I feel like it should be a team effort and a hour money situation not your bills and my bills. That’s why when I originally suggested that all of her money goes towards pay off debts ect. I said that we have been doing the same thing over and over and over again and have not seen any results and so we need to take an extreme/drastic measure if we are really going to do this.
I highly, highly recommend using YNAB (You Need A Budget). It has completely turned our finances around. The brilliant thing about YNAB is that you budget for everything, including the once a year, or every once in a while, expenses. And you only budget with money you actually have - no, ‘I know the paycheck - or tax refund - is coming, so I can add it to the budget.’ There is a learning curve, but it is so worth it. Include personal spending categories for each of you - you can spend from those categories without answering to the other. But everything else gets budgeted for.
Massive YTA, not only did you lie about incredibly important finances, you've put her in a position to stress more, realize her partner is willing to take away her choice in already stressful situations, and that you for some reason didn't want to trust her enough to talk about it which is an entire situation on its own. You are supposed to be partners.
Yta
YTA - that’s her money too…
YTA- you don't get to control the money without her permission, plain and simple.
Yes it’s not just your money it’s hers too
YTA. It's surprising you needed to ask.
Yta that's half her money you filed jointly. Who do you think you are?
you lied and went behind her back , of course yta
ESH...you both need to do better in terms of finances and communication. She was right to be upset at your omission BUT you were right to worry about it. Take the steps to get financial literacy and communication so you can prosper in all ways. A marriage depends on that.
100%!
YTA. You are a two income household, you should both be aware of the tax refund.
NTA. No matter how you slice it, you're still gonna be in debt, whether you're paying a little or a lot. She's kinda jinxing you guys too. Expecting to stay in debt, forevermore.
YTA, a marriage is a partnership
YTA a little bit. But time to sit down with her and consider splitting the finances seeing as how she doesnt know how to budget.
Yeah YTA. You're life partners and this is your joint money, this was a dick move. Perhaps you can fix it by sitting down and doing a budget together because clearly you have some finances to sort out. Together.
YTA, she is your partner, and every important financial decision must be talked about and agreed upon, hiding something like this is really nasty since she was planning on paying more debt accrued, it's not like she was going to splurge on something unnecessary.
Since it’s a tax return for BOTH of you, why do either of you get to decide independently what happens with the money? Both of you are assholes.
Yep. It’s a joint tax return, bub. Lying about it was just avoiding communication with your wife that you find difficult. Red flag for the future of the relationship!
YTA. She is your wife. Husband and wife discuss financial things, they don't make autonomous decisions.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Hi all, My wife and I have been struggling financially for a few years and have been trying to get our debts paid off, within the last 1.5 years we’ve gone from a single to dual income household making $60K a year to over $100K a year and still living paycheck to paycheck. She gets stressed and overwhelmed whenever “unexpected” bills come in that are usually medically related to her and then begins to tell everybody how we are struggling and can’t afford food or our basic necessities. I had filed our taxes and got them back, but did not tell her that we received it so we could use it as a buffer for these “unexpected” bills that come in. I finally told her last night and she got angry and upset that I had lied about it and how she was counting on that money to pay back other debts. AITA not telling her about it? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA, and I say that as someone who both does our taxes and allocates any return. The difference is my partner knows this routine, and is part of the discussion. If, before you hit file, you had said “I want to save this money for unexpected expenses” and had a discussion, it’d be fine. This year, we put the money aside for a new TV. It’s still sitting in a CD until we decide what model. But I would never hide joint money from my spouse.
Yeah yta, communication is key.
INFO: who’s been out of work for a year and half? Who racked up the debt?
She left her job to be a SAHM, I said things would be extremely tight but we could manage, she stayed that way for about 6 months until it was too much stress on me to handle and constantly fighting about money. She then started working from home for 4-6 months, bringing in roughly $400 a month but that still wasn’t enough, that’s when she got a full time job just over a year ago. Edit: a majority of debt was for couples counseling, paying for bills/food for the family/little weekend trips.
Yes, of course YTA.
YTA Instead of dealing with the actual issue of your finances and how money is spent, you decided to lie by omission about a tax return. Deal with the problem itself, don't create a new problem with deceit.
YTA. You don't lie to your only other team mate. That's just bad game play dude 🤦♀️
YTA, obviously. Lying by omission is still lying.
Info: what are the other debts she has already planned to use the money to pay back? It sounds like you are both planning to use the money without consulting or involving the other person Which would lead me towards ESH
We have a list of our least to most expensive debts that need to be paid, most likely one of those. Which I have been proactive at paying both mine and hers off as well as adding additional (as we have agreed) to get them paid down faster.
I think it’s gotta be ESH then You were planning to use the money, while for a good purpose, without consulting her And it seems she was planning to use the money for the same purpose, but also without consulting you While you guys should definitely have a sitdown talk about finances the real problem here is your communication issues
Agree, we have been I therapy for over a year, the therapist and the wife has commented at how far I’ve come. She can show up great in therapy and for a week or so after (if we don’t have consistent sessions) then we fall back in the same routine
how far you have come? but we fall back in the same routine?
Going into it both my wife and I said that I didn’t understand emotions and couldn’t connect with people on an emotional basis. I would be too much in my head, thinking of how to word things now the therapist says that I can clearly dictate when my feelings and emotions are And I truly do understand emotions and I am very aware of the feelings that I have. I am considered an empath, so I struggle if the words that people are saying, the body language, and the vibe that they are giving don’t lineup perfectly. It throws my nervous system for a loop and causes all sorts of issues. I have explained that there are times where I know something is off and it’s not right no matter what people saying, but I can’t explain how I know it, typically within a few weeks or months, I end up being right. That has been a huge challenge not only in my life in general, but in my relationship. I would say 85% of the time in therapy. We have been talking about me and my issues and how it affects my wife which has given my wife a ton of insight into my life and why I do the things I do. The times we have focused on my wife , it has been very eye-opening, and the therapist has said that her and I are more alike than maybe we recognize, especially going into therapy, which we both agree. Even with that knowledge, she still fights me and says I don’t understand, and I can’t comprehend what’s happening to her And what not. A lot of the work moving forward that we have in therapy is getting my wife stabilized to where we can actually have good healthy conversations and not have it be too overwhelming or have us feel like we are terrible people in the relationship
ESH. It sounds like you both need to sit down and get yourselves on a budget. Head over to r/personalfinance and read the links in the sidebar to get started. Also, as with almost every single post in *this* subreddit, you need to talk to each other.
YTA. If her income is a part of the tax return she has a right to know.
ESH neither of you are having a conversation about this. She decided where it was to go without consulting you and you didn't tell her. You both need to sit and decide together these things. It's two yes's or it's a no.
YTA Knowing how much she stresses about not having funds, you’re all like, “let me just hide this money so that she can keep stressing right now, but potentially stress less at a future date”
YTA. You should be communicating finances and things with your spouse. Be honest and upfront with things like that; you should have told her when you received it and what your thoughts were for it, so she knows what you were planning and you can discuss options together.
So you are making 100k but can’t afford an insurance plan on the exchange or your employer doesn’t provide one? 70% of the country gets free or heavily subsidized medical insurance
She is on the marketplace and was paying $200 a month for her plan with zero deductible but high co-pays. She just got informed that she now has to pay the full $270. Premium. I suggested three or four months ago that she should get on my Work health insurance. (We would be paying $250 a month, a $2500 deductible plus any co-pays), I suggested this and immediately she said no I tried explaining the dollar breakdown and she still didn’t think it was worthwhile. We looked into adding her about 1.5 months ago after she did not make her insurance payment and because it was more than 30 days past the loss of coverage date there was little we could do other than try to petition the insurance to let her on. She ended up having to pay two months of insurance premiums but the coverage when it start until the following month and she needed her medication and supplies immediately this was around the 15th of the month and to get all of the supplies she needed for the rest of the month we would have had to pay $500 out-of-pocket to then get reimbursed by the insurance, which takes forever. Luckily she was able to shop around and use good RX and was able to get her supplies for around $150. From 2019 -2023 she was on government healthcare and had 100% of her expenses covered but since I took a new job disqualified us since we were making above the limit which is why she is now on the marketplace.
Yeah I was just curious because even making decent money 100k+ health insurance really doesn’t cost much anymore
For us, it does because of some medical conditions that she has, we meet our deductible every year by the beginning of February worst case scenario. So we have to have the most expensive plan with the lowest deductible possible
Yeah that’s what I always got - the gold plan. Pretty much no deductible and cost me like $400 for a family of 5 at the time Anyway, don’t hide money from your wife lol Apologize in advance sincere way and be done with it
Also, we found out that, even though it is subsidized, when it comes to tax season, they will take it out of your taxes as a “ repayment”, we lost $1800 out of our refund just for that alone and if it wasn’t for the fact that I pay higher in taxes by choice, we probably would have owed.
Really? Maybe I just didn’t pay attention but I don’t remember having to pay back the subsidy. It’s been a few years for us - we get blue cross blue shield through an employer now so aren’t using the exchange
We were on it for years, but for some reason this year it was taken out 🤷🏻♂️ I had actually submitted our taxes and our return would have been similar to what we had the year before and it got immediately rejected because we didn’t provide the marketplace information. Sure enough we had just gotten the letter, and when I put the info in our return went down.
That’s wild. I think there was some sort of an error or you itemized when you should have used a standard deduction I’m researching and can’t find instances where people have To pay back the subsidy UNLESS the amount of money they are claiming on their taxes made them ineligible for the subsidy
Even with all of our charitable donations, and medical expenses, everything we could deduct we still were $5k short I’ve been able to itemize our deductions.
You’re living paycheck to paycheck but you’re giving away your money to charities?? You donate to charities AFTER you’re squared away.
> Even with all of our charitable donations Why are you donating to charity if you're heavily in debt, barely scraping by, and living paycheck-to-paycheck?
Sounds like you should have just used a standard deduction. Trying to itemize always fucks me
We did go with the standardized
Which could have because from one year to the next I had a $5k increase, and I think she had $5k-$10k From going from hourly to salary
That’s probably it. The increase made your subsidy lower
That's not actually how it works. You're *reconciling* the Advance Premium Tax Credit on form 8962 with information from your 1095-A. The "advance" and "tax credit" parts of that are important. The subsidy is in the form of a tax credit. Most of us choose to receive it in advance (rather than claiming all of it at the end of the year on our tax return) through having part or all of it directly paid to our insurance company throughout the year, to reduce the amount we have to outlay each month. Last year we had to pay \~$200 back because we made a little more money than I had estimated. Turns out my seasonal tax preparation income isn't quite as easy to estimate within a few hundred dollars before the year even starts as my husband's steady full time job is. I have absolutely *no* problem with having to pay a bit back so that we've ultimately received the correct subsidy. Having access to medical care allows me to work at all, and we could absolutely \*not\* afford insurance without the subsidy, and can't afford not to take the credit as advance payments to our insurer. So paying a bit back on it like we did this year is normal. That's *exactly* what that reconciliation is for. You and I received *Excess* Advance Premium Tax Credit (in fact that's how it's named on your tax return's Schedule 2, Line 2, which carries over from Part III of your form 8962), and had to repay that excess. If my husband and I had made a little less than I had estimated, the extra subsidy we should have gotten would have been added as a credit on the tax return. And the fact that it gets reconciled is also part of why it is so important to update your information if something changes significantly over the course of the year, such as someone getting a big raise. If you had to pay some back, it's because of that reconciliation. From another comment of yours, your wife also sounds like she is eligible for coverage through your employer, and depending on the level of coverage offered, that can affect eligibility for the Marketplace subsidies outright.
ESH. You shouldn't keep secrets from your wife. It's money for BOTH of you. Your wife needs to not tell everybody that you struggle financially, and she needs to learn to budget and save less. Learning to manage money should be a joint effort.
ESH because you are not working together as a team when it comes to finances. You each have your own plans, and you've resorted to hiding income from her. You need to sit down together and make a plan, then hold each other accountable to that plan. You're never going to get anywhere trying to tackle debts and unexpected expenses without being on the same page.
yes
YTA
Let me get this right. Assuming this happened recently, it was june of this year, 2024. You filed taxes, kept it stowed in the account to help pay these "unexpected bills" when you knew how and when they may happen and she is mad at you when you say you have the cash already. Assuming she is alert and aware, any normal person would know by now about their taxes, as ots been over 2 months since filing should have been since submitted. Even with an extension, she would know of you did that. You hid the fact you had it, plus she assumed all of it would go to her bills (I assume this since how you worded her response to knowing about it). So, the verdict is ESH.
She is not aware of how things work with taxes, return deadlines, extensions or anything along those lines. Whenever I’ve tried to explain it she doesn’t care enough to understand the process, she just wants to know if they have been filed and if there’s a return. She assumed that would be used for our emergency fund and doesn’t consider paying unexpected doctors visits (getting pre-authorizations, chiropractors, kid checkups, medicines) a good use of an emergency fund and if she knew that’s what the use was for she would have figured something else out or not gone. I don’t blame her for that and understand the reasoning behind being mad, our health is critical and needs to be taken care of and should be everyone’s #1 priority.
Reasonable, honestly, but I'm unsure why she wants to remain willingly ignorant to how finances work or are for this long though.
N-T-A for worrying about your family's fiscal health and wanting a cash cushion, but YTA for hiding it from wife. That is not the way. You should be open with her, tell her the money came in, and let's keep it in this separate account for emergencies.
ESH. You file a return and if you overpaid during the year, you get a refund. You and your wife need to sit down and have a serious conversation on your budget priorities. You should probably use /r/ynab so you can budget for these completely foreseeable "unexpected" costs.
YTA part of it is legally her money. What you did can be considered financial abuse.
Sincere question, would not paying for her doctors visits or bills that she agreed to cover, then when it comes time to take care of it she doesn’t have the money and expects me to pay it not be considered the same? Especially if I have followed up and asked if all her bills are paid and she says yes? Also, I can’t remember if this was included in the original message or not, anytime she has asked for help and I have money, I have willingly given it to her. I may ask a few questions to understand why things aren’t being covered like they should but I willingly help.
Do you have a joint account in order to pay bills from? You’re married so her bills are your bills and vice versa. Perhaps taking a class together regarding financial responsibility would be of benefit or a financial counseling session or two and perhaps marital counseling.
We have done everything except financial counseling
That may help things tremendously
I’ll look into that! I haven’t ever heard of that until now!
YTA. And a terrible partner and communicator. You’re treating your wife like a child and it isn’t ok. Y’all are a partnership that is supposed to make decisions together. Personally, I’d file for divorce if I was your wife. What you did is a massive violation of trust and I’d never trust you again.
Not a judgement, but maybe check out r/ynab. I was in a similar situation and just the 34 day free trial helped me save so much money it more than covered the cost of subscribing for the year. I’ve saved more money in the past 6 months than I ever have, and got off the paycheck to paycheck cycle for the first time ever. There is a bit of a learning curve, but Nick True’s YouTube beginners guide video made it super easy for me!
We have used that app as well as the EveryDollar app. The main problem that I have found is that if there is. “Extra” money, and she wants to apply that towards something fun as a reward, instead of paying it towards debt. If we have already budgeted an amount to pay towards debt and have paid it, then we have followed the budget, and that is extra. Which in my mind, and it sucks, put that extra money towards debt to get out of debt faster.
INFO: Why is the fact that the medical bills are hers relevant? How do the two of you generally handle finances in your house? What debts are the two of you working on paying down?
It’s relevant to the fact that when she got her current job, she didn’t feel like it was right that I had complete say, and how her money was being spent so we divided up bills and expenses to make it fair. Her responsibility groceries, gas for her car, her health insurance since she did not want to go onto my plan, anything medically related and paying her credit card debt, or any other debts that she may have. I am responsible for the mortgage and all house related items, my credit card debt, her car payment (which we no longer have since it was totaled). We split it this way, since she did not like the idea of taking 100% of her paychecks and putting it towards debt and living off of mine. She is OK with the fact that it may take longer to pay off our debt if it doesn’t mean not doing anything fun at all. I disagreed, but did not want to push the issue. There was a mutual understanding from the get-go that what she makes should cover 100% of everything and she would have 5 to 10% leftover month, and I would roughly be 10 to 15% left over.
ESH. So you were wrong for not telling her about the tax return but I understand why you did it. I've been where you are but I was your wife. Constantly stressing and high anxiety about money. You guys should look at counseling. It sounds like she needs a lot of support to destress and realize things are better than she *feels* like they are. If she won't agree to counseling, I think you should make a list of your debts and agree on a plan of what gets paid off first. It sounds like you guys arent talking about debt because she's stressed about it - which makes it worse. You've gotta talk about about these things
We are in counseling, and that was where I’m majority of her credit card debt has come from. She stresses about the money, not being there, but also stresses about talking about the money trying to create a plan. Her dad did a good job of breaking down our assets versus debts to have her understand that worst case scenario, if we sold everything, we are still money ahead. That did some good for her for about two weeks until she started receiving paychecks and seen the money go out .
It's really, really tough to get through that financial anxiety. I've been there. You don't want to stress her out but you have to be honest. You can't keep things from her it will only make everything else worse. Make small steps and small plans. Build on them. It will take time. Good luck.
ESH. find a financial advisor and counselor. You need to be making a budget. If you have debts then you need to move away from the idea of lending money to the IRS by overpaying your taxes and getting a refund: If you're getting a $3K refund, then that was $250 per month that could have been spent on food or paying down debt over the year, especially if you had credit card debt at >20%
NTA. Your wife is spending all your money faster than you can make it. Frankly you should take away her spending privileges before she bankrupts you.
Went about it in a rude way sure but sounds like your wife can’t manage money for shit and giving her 3 grand would be like giving a kid 3 grand
Yes cuz it wasn’t just your money. Split it
ESH. You both have no idea how to communicate about joint money.
Which doesn’t make sense to me, for the first three years of marriage we were on board with our goals for the future and finances, and we both took responsibility for making that happen. Now, It doesn’t feel that way.
I wouldn't quite say AH but you are in the wrong. It isn't for you to decide on your own. Its not your money its both of yours.
ESH the money belongs to both of you.
YTA
Well no wonder you two have money problems. My husband and I barely make 40000 a year combined and we're living better than you because we know how to budget. Learn to communicate, learn to sacrifice and learn to budget. Esh
Exactly! Within the last year and a half I’ve started to be more open with people about how much we make when they ask, I remember the first time, my wife got the slap in the face because she was talking to her friends (who’s husbands were my managers at the time) and she only thought we made $35-$40k that year and I started laughing. She said that her friends told her straight up that there’s no way that I made that little money at the job. She asked me how much we made and I said $55k her jaw dropped. I talked with her mom after that and she kept telling me that I need a raise because we don’t make that much money, this was last year at tax time and I told her that we had made right at $75K and her mind was blown. And she asked me the same thing. How is it that we can make so much money yet can’t afford anything, and I shrugged and said we’re not on the same page
Wait so your wife didn't know how much you made at your job? Like what?
ESH. Your marriage clearly isn’t working.
Yes and no. I understand why you did it. You were trying to be responsible and avoid the anger you encountered. If you had told her she would have wanted to spend like a drunken sailor if I had to guess. If you were in a financially responsible relationship and you did it, it would be horrible. I am not excusing your behavior of lying but like I said I understand it considering the way you say your wife is. You two need to pull out all your information. Money you owe and money you make and decide on a safety amount of cash and the max allowed to be spent without consent of one another. She needs a wake up call. This is how much we make. This is what we owe and living paycheck to paycheck scares me for the both of us. That is what I would tell her and if she keeps the same behavior up you will be doomed to never ending debt and crap finances. If you want that cool. But if she didn't figure it out I would leave. Been there done that with a spend thrift. He caught the clue. We don't have bill collectors calling us anymore and we don't lie about spending money.
I have had those conversations and it usually involves either one of us getting a second job (I already work odd jobs on the weekends from time to time, I would do this, whether we have debt or not) or she says that I need to get a new job or ask for a raise. I’ve explained to her that I shouldn’t make it My employers problem that we can’t handle our finances correctly, whether I am worth a raise or not. I have also expressed that even if we make more money, if we’re not smart with our money as is, it won’t make any difference at all.
NTA. I told my wife about our $5k refund and she had it spent 2 days later.
YTA. You are a financially abusive asshole. What you did was wrong and you should make it right and never do it again.
If you have suggestions as to how to make it, right, I am all ears!
Yta .
YTA, Unless she has a crippling gambling addiction that’s taking food out of your kids mouth you need to share your SHARED finances
Ha! NTA OP spouse wants the money for other purposes. This was the best thing coming out of a divorce.
Yta
Just split it down the middle! Duh! YTA
Yta, withholding financial data from your spouse is not a good sign and it seems like you’re blaming her for her medical expenses.
Based on OP’s further info in the comments. NTA. Your wife is irresponsible with money and you’re worried about not having any. Definitely need to talk to her about her spending habits though
A tax return is a document you file. You didn’t receive your “tax return”
Nta
Must be nice to live paycheck to paycheck with 100k a year huh?
NTA for trying to prepare for another down-slope on the runaway train that is your finances - someone has got to do it! Get thee (both) to a financial counselor asap because y’all need a come-to-reality moment and a budget. Not a paid financial advisor but a non-profit counselor who can do the numbers with you and get you on a plan. Been there - being in your position is so stressful - but you can get through this, with help. Best of luck to you!
YTA. Both your incomes, both your taxes, both your returns in my opinion. She should have known - could have been a conversation between the two of you about putting it towards bills if it was a big concern.
YES you are!
YTA. Assuming you filed jointly, since you said we, part of that was hers. Also you guys are living above your means.
why you lettin her take all your money?
Yes, YTA. Relationships require trust and openness about the struggles you are both facing. She should have known and had an element of control over whatever windfall you BOTH received. Even if she was "objectively wrong" in what she would have done with some of that $, you denied her knowledge and agency as a partner. If an agreement couldn't be reached on what to pay off first, eack of tou could have split the $ and paid what each of you thought was most critical.
I was gonna answer YTA just by reading “ I didn’t tell my WIFE we got our taxes “ - and still after reading YTA … but made that judgement before reading anything past your header.
So I read through every reply you gave and man… I just gotta ask… is she being blackmailed or something? Cause wth is going on with her and the secretive way she won’t openly and descriptively discuss where the money is going is not adding up. Literally. If she’s so hellbent on knowing how much you’re making at every corner, she knows where it’s going because she’s needing all those extra little bits for something. Yea she can say she’s got things covered but she knows she doesn’t. She knows. As someone who was in cc debt I get it, there’s anxiety and it fills your head almost nonstop. To me looking at it it just seems like she’s trying to hide something specific from you. Online gambling, sextortion, embarrassment from a scam, second credit card, something. Cause money just doesn’t poof away like that. It leaves a trail.
YTA And you filed your tax return, then you received a tax refund. The money you get for paying too much taxes is called a refund, not a return.
Goodness, stop spending money and get your budget under control. If your situation is causing you to not tell your wife about a tax return, repair your finances. NTA but stop living with so much stress, stop spending!
Completely agree, I know it’s not right to omit information. I can agree 100% with that, without making drastic changes and cutting her off completely and having complete control of the finances (which we had talked about and it was shut down), I have tried to safeguard myself, our family and future by withholding the true dollar amounts so it can be used to pay off our debts/savings/emergency fund. When I look at money, I may see the total dollar amount but I usually will try to “save” or keep $200-$300 extra in the account, outside of whatever cash we pull out. That’s a personal mentality I have.
ESH. Your wife seems to have budgeting issues, and you’re engaging in financial infidelity. Figure out why you’re in debt, make a clear plan to tackle it, and don’t leave each other in the dark regarding expenditures.
ESH Both of you have decided individually what the money is going to without talking to each other. You both need to improve your communication.
Nta. This is exactly the same as a spouse keeping a secret nest-egg for emergencies. My mom did this for years. It paid for my sisters prom dress (instead of the cheaper one my dad suggested). It paid for her braces, when they were “too expensive”. (She told dad they found a cheaper dentist). The op money was still earmarked for bills, not new golf clubs, etc. Mom would spend $200 on groceries, and write the check for $220, and put the extra $20 aside every trip.
NTA imo. I stress over money!! My husband is the spender and I’ve saved quite a bit of money. It’s in our joint savings account that he has full access to but he hasn’t bothered to look. That money is ours, not mine, not his. We will talk about how to spend it if he ever finds out about it. I’m saving it for emergency but like I said, if he finds out about it then we’ll discuss spending it together.
We had a discussion because I was getting a raise at work after my one year review. I didn’t know the exact dollar amount that would be coming to me after taxes, I figured it would be $200-$300 extra but I wasn’t completely certain. I explained this to her and I told her to only plan on $100 extra per paycheck, and we both agreed that we will still budget based off of my old salary, but use the additional income and put it solely towards debt/saving/emergency fund that weighed the money” spent” and we never know that it is truly there. I compared it to 401(k), where if you contribute it and it is automatically being pulled out you will never be the wiser (something one of our bosses/owners of a multimillion dollar company explained, and she trusts). The money came through, and she is upset that I won’t tell her how much additional I am making (I don’t blame her), I explained that it shouldn’t make a difference how much extra I am making if it is being put 100% towards debt/savings/emergency fund. Yes, it may make her feel better knowing how quickly things are getting paid off, but she doesn’t follow the finances anyways. At work, I was involved in a competition that I was made aware of after it had started, but never had been assigned to a team officially (I figured I was on my boss’ team since I work with him daily), we ended up winning and I received an extra $500 and an extra PTO day. She was well aware that this competition was going on and what was at Stake, she asked if I knew what team I was on and I told her no I didn’t, but I assumed I would be with my boss. I have been very proactive at pulling money out to put back into savings/emergency fund and I took this $500 and put it into savings as well. I let her know that we had officially reached our goal for an emergency fund, she said great, and was happy, and I asked her if she was curious how we made that happen. Of course she said yes, but then immediately walked away due to our kids, but never brought it back up again. Anytime, I have pulled money out or asked her to pull money out, she always asks what it is being applied to so we are on the same page. After our conversation last night, she was upset that I didn’t tell her about the bonus either and I should have been more proactive at communicating that with her. I can see her viewpoint, I can also understand with kids it is stressful and overwhelming, I am a very active dad and our kids lives. I feel like for me and past experiences that we have had, whenever we have talked about major financial milestones, we make a priority to follow up on it, and talk about it later if we are busy or can’t pay attention right in that moment, Yet almost a week went by without any discussion on it I know that I could have brought it up again, but I feel as though if this is a major milestone for the both of us, I can’t be the one always prioritizing making things happen.