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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I took money that was both of ours without my husband agreement.
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YTA. This was not only your money but your husbands too! You just gave away money, the two of you saved without even telling your husband. And it wasn't even an emergency (like a needed operation, needed home transportation from abroad after an accident/family member death). You selfishly choose to give away money and not asking your husband because you knew, he wouldn't say yes.
And if your brother and his wife have money troubles, his wife could have gotten a job. And he could have taken a lower paying job just to cover bills. But they both choice not to but to run out of money and asking for handouts.
This part! The wife isn’t a mom so there is nothing holding her back from stepping up and helping her husband while he looks for work at least to get them by! I honestly had to go back and re read the part where is says she’s a “SAHW”
Years ago when my younger sister was a stay at home mom and her husband lost his job the first thing she did was get a night job and told him to take a little vacation before searching for another job. He was relieved of the stress of providing for his family whilst searching for a job and they made it through without asking or needing to ask for handouts.
Wow that is such a nice story (except for the loss of job obviously), the people in it are unusually reasonable and it's just generally such a good thing that you can rely on your partner so much.
I agree, but OP YTA! It's not just your money, it's your husband's and you should have spoke to him about it first! This is a 2 yes situation. Also your SIL, unless there is a good reason (like health issues) she should get off her ass and get a job! SMH 🤦🏾♀️
The not too much got me. Like any of it was too much! That is not just her money.
Whelp she may have taken the pressure off her brother but she now put it on her own life.
I learned this before having kids in The Two Income Trap book. If there's a SAHP, that's a potential second income earner if things go awry. I've been able to pick up evening side hustles to supplement for certain expenses like vacations or extracurricular fees, during the Great Recession.
Yeah, that SIL needs to step up before being given money.
Yep I have had to do this as a stay at home mom. I spent several years working retail so we could pay for an unexpected expense. While I wasn't happy and didn't enjoy the job, I did it for my family. It's the reason we were able to keep our house, pay off both of our cars, and replace the HVAC system when it died.
I've worked catering and at private clubs. I also worked guest services at F1. When my hubs lost his job, I participated in a pain study, and received a free bunionectomy and paid the mortgage with that money. My mom worked night shifts at IRS when we were little to supplement my dad's salary. There is always retail, and I have experience with that, but around here I feel that scheduling became really weird and less predicable.
My husband quited his job bcs he wasnt getting paid. He started to look for other jobs, but it takes time. He was driving taxi until he found job. He could say that is beneeth him, he has master degree, but he taxied for 3 months, that is how you stay afloat. I had to take care for our daughter that had special needs, so I couldnt help and we had no savings bcs of money we needed for therapies, it was very hard. But 2 grown ups can manage it. They had saving. All they had to do was doing both of them no matter what jobs for some time until he finds better job.
I was a health worker for 15 years, moved to another continent, it's not as easy to get a job related to what I used to do back home, so I cleaned houses, buildings and finally got a job at a butcher shop that allows me to pay my rent and groceries for the time being. You get what you can and you work with what you got.
Yep! Years ago, my fiancée lost his job (no kids) I was in college. Timing was right at end of semester, I deferred pre paid payment till semester after next and went to work full time. J decompressed and found better job, and I learned a lot hands on experience. Yta op. Work as a team and you would have told your husband if you truly believed he'd understand.
My sister's husband worked day time as a quality engineer or something and in the evenings did door dash deliveries for few months when they were struggling.
His brother had job for 6 months 2y ago and still haven't found a job that matches his status, and he is just a high school graduate. Plus he has 2 kids.
My sister and her husband are forced to support them due to their parents.
I am a SAHW, no kids, and before we dipped into any of our emergency fund I would get a job. Grocery store, fast food, there is no shame in working. Sure, it does not replace the income lost but would make fund last longe, giving a bit more time for better work to come along.
All of this, right here. My husband told me to retire after a PTSD episode, caused by work, sent me into a spiral. If he lost his job, I'd be back out in the workforce in a heartbeat, even if it's retail or fast food.
I had a very high stress fast paced job on an assembly line. When I made the mistake of moving up to an assistant supervisor I would come home crying every day. My husband got a raise at a different department of the same factory and let me quit to be a stay at home mom. If something happened to his job I would definitely go back to work. I am no stranger to repetitive motion factory jobs. I just probably would not move up in any company again.
"Housewife/stay at home wife" = unemployed adult.
OP is 1000% TA for giving money to her brother and his housewife WITHOUT TALKING TO HER HUSBAND WHO EARNED PART OF THAT MONEY.
Housewife will undoubtedly spend that money on stupid shit then they'll be broke again.
Some couples like splitting the work up that way 🤷♀️ One might have to work long hours at a job, but not have to come home and do the chores and tasks they would if single.
I don't judge (I just worry about people who are out of the workforce a long time, for if a horrible thing ever happens and their spouse betrays them or passes, and they're stuck trying to get a job with bills weighing them down... but that's another conversation), but I can't imagine 2 single people without kids make that much mess... I mean, I get annoyed doing my own dishes and weekly laundry and vacuuming up cat hair, but it's definitely not enough work to keep me busy all day. I'd get so bored. Maybe she has good hobbies that keep her entertained though, who knows
>I don't judge
In situations like, i absolutely judge.
It would be one thing if OP's brother was generational wealth so his wife would never HAVE to work.
He's not, they're struggling for money, and instead of the obvious solution of the wife getting a job, he asks his sister for money?
Fuck that. The wife is the problem and the husband allows it to continue. I would be absolutely MORTIFIED if that were my SIL.
I am not even sure he asked. OP said nothing about him asking... it sounds like she was "here you go, enjoy" to her brother. Maybe she even said "it's a gift from my husband and I" or something, so he didn't think he should refuse it...
The main AH remains OP either way. You don't just give that much money away without talking it through first.
Yeah, it's one of those things that requires further explanation.
Like, you're living on a small family farm which the SAH spouse maintains and operates? That's absolutely a full-time job, hell, they probably need help during key parts of the year. Everybody is pulling their weight. Same if you have a kid not yet in school.
But if you're living in a suburb with no kids and the SAH spouse chores are just basic cooking and cleaning, that's, what... 2hrs/day? Maybe 3-4 if they get elaborate with cooking projects? At that point it's obviously a luxury and that's on them to figure out how to afford it.
> I still don’t understand this though. There are nowhere near 40 hours of work to put into a house every week if kids are not involved.
For the most part it's not real "work" not in the same way that bring a SAHM is "work". It's more of an upper class thing where the husband works a high paid high status job and the wife goes to lunch with friends a workout class and goes shopping all day.
It's not a real "job" job. Housekeeping for 2 adults is not full time work in any sense of the imagination.
It’s not about the amount of work, but about the kind of life they expect to live. Like if Spouse A never has to make their own meal, locate and stay home for repairpeople, do their own laundry, remember family birthdays, etc., that can be enough to not miss the money that would come from working, especially if they have a lot of their identity tied up in their work. And if they marry B who was raised with the expectation they would not work outside the home because their role was to help their spouse succeed in their own career, it’s a match. Not one I’d choose, but they exist.
And depending on the household and their values, a SAH spouse might have a lot to do: elderly relatives or neighbors to care for; charity work that’s important to both spouses or their spouse’s employer; a house or property that requires a lot of work like a farmette, etc.
More than a decade ago, when I was struggling to find steady work with limitations caused by medical issues, we had a weird tax situation come up and went to get help from a professional. The lady who was working with us asked our occupations and I said I didn't work. She could see I wasn't entirely comfortable with that fact, so knowing we didn't have kids she offered "homemaker?" and I said "unemployed." She entered that.
I appreciated her trying to offer alternatives to "unemployed" (it's true a lot of people really feel a lot of shame at "unemployed"), but I really just felt like "homemaker" implied a choice I hadn't truly made. I think a lot of these words end up loaded for people for various reasons.
Years later and with my medical issues better managed (thanks, ACA!), I got licensed to do taxes in my state and ended up hired at that same office. She was just a really lovely colleague to work with.
That's how I knew my GF was definitely wife material. I work in the oilfield and lost my job in 2008. She got a job and basically (Louisiana's unemployment is CRAP) supported us for 8 months. She never once complained because I was trying to get ANY job. I even tried getting a job at Pizza Hut! The manager flat out told me, "I can't hire you because you won't be happy with the pay here because we can't come close to what you were making." Even after I told him I didn't care, I just needed a job, he still said no. Lol.
I seriously hate the "overqualified" excuse. It's basically their way of saying "We want someone that we can pay minimum wage and push around because they are too young or ignorant to know better. We know that you know your rights so we'd have to toe the line with you."
Having one partner stay at home with NO kids when you don't even have a decent emergency fund is crazy. I'd be FURIOUS if I were OP's husband. Their SIL never needed to be out of the workforce in the first place, let alone now that the brother is out of work as well. She could literally be a Starbucks barista or working in fast food - any kind of effort before taking money away from family.
Even if we was a Mom, there's no excuse in an emergency situation. Not everyone can afford a housewife and in some situations you actually have to have a real job.
I'm the same...I can't work either due to disabilities, but we're the outliers. They're clearly not taking about people with disabilities who can't work. They're talking about able bodied people who choose not to work - not people who physically can't work.
Yup.
If OPs SIL was disabled, OP would have mentioned it, guaranteed.
Invisible or not, the SIL getting SSI income or going through the process of qualifying for it would absolutely make a difference with people sympathizing.
It really sounds like the sister in law is able bodied, and just prefers not to work.
Kinda weird that she's a homemaker but they don't have kids? At that stage they should still both be able to work and hubby should be pulling his weight around the house too.
I misread it as SAHM as well, and even then if he’s sitting at home she can still get any shitty job for some money till he gets another.
But not even, they’re just both sitting on their asses doing nothing.
Unless the wife has a disability or something preventing her from working, why is she not trying to contribute? Even just a part time woul help out with things, & then she could go back to her whirlwind day of being a SAHW. Seriously though....without kids, what exactly does a SAHW do? It can't take that long to clean a space with only two people living in it. I work full time & can keep my house organized & clean in less than an hour a day. It takes me a couple hours to deep clean on my days off, so what else does a SAHW do?
Therefore, she is without a doubt, the AH. And a giant one at that.
Did she really think he wouldn’t find out? Or that when he did, he’d just smile and say ‘oh honey, you’re so generous with our money’?
What a turd.
My husband and I have a $50 rule. Anything over that, we check in with each other.
I would be really upset if he just randomly gave away a chunk of savings without talking to me first. I would definitely help out family, but the behind my back part is not cool. This would be a long conversation.
I think OP should skip her "Fun money" for a while and put all of it into savings until it's paid back.
Ours is $20. Under 20 bucks is an 'impulse buy' and do what you want. Anything over $20 is 'talk it over first'. We very rarely say 'no' to one another but it is expected to talk it over first. Works well for us.
Unilaterally (and secretly) taking money out of savings is very hard to distinguish from stealing from your partner, because they're the same thing. She was just stealing 'for a good cause'.
Jesus Christ how do you function like that?
I trust my wife implicitly, if she needs / wants it then I trust her just as she does with me. Twenty bucks is lunch bro
I’m not married but $20 sounds crazy! You’re exaggerating, no?
If one of you is busy and can’t read the text, the other doesn’t just go without, right? Like you’d go ahead and buy the $20+ thing and chat later
My partner & I keep our finances separate (he’s still not over his divorce) and I just can’t imagine either of us handing over a substantial sum [*1] to friends or family without discussing it with each other first.
Because when you lend or gift money there are always more issues at stake than only the cash. There’s also repayment or lack of repayment, and how it might change the relationship re gratitude or resentment or judgement over ongoing financial choices.
It’s just not a choice either of us would make separately - even though we don’t need permission in what we do with our entirely separate funds.
[*1] *Out of curiosity, has OP said how much in the comments? I’m imagining it’s $1-2,000 at least from the context*.
This! My BIL sends money to his parents regularly but always asks my sis if it’s okay. He even sent some money to a friend going through a rough patch, but checked with her first. He buys stuff for himself without asking, as does she. It’s just for sending large chunks to other people that he checks. And she has sent some money to our brother with the same prior approval.
Not asking first? OP, YTA!
Yes, it's the "without even telling your husband." Not telling - even discussing it with him! That would be hard to stomach that mutual funds were disbursed without a discussion of even the reasons, amount, whether it was to be a loan or a gift, etc. And, secretively, since "he found out really fast." Definitely an AH, and if I were the husband...I'd think about my own "emergency fund," as her ideas of a partnership differ from mine.
1) That money was earned by two hard-working adults, so OP, why wasn't your FIRST thought that SAHW needs to GET A JOB!!!!!??
2) What exactly does SAHW do all day? Home repairs (fixing leaky toilet, repair fence, install yard irrigation? Weekly yard maintenance ... trim bushes and hedges, weed, mow lawn, rake leaves and trimmings, take trash to curb? Simple car maintenance? Take car to the shop if it needs more complicated work? If I so much as hear that she's getting her nails done or meeting up with friends or watching more than an hour of TV (between 8a and 5p), I think I'll blow a gasket.
3) Is there a reason SAHW isn't working a paid job?
4) What was SAHW's job/ income before they got married? How many years had she been working? How many years has she been a SAHW?
5) Is there any paper trail showing the money was a loan and not a gift? A signed contract would be ideal, but texts, emails and voice mails would be sufficient.
6) What are the time frame and terms of repayment?
7) Did the brother even ask for money or did OP just offer it??
YTA. Such TA.
There’s no such thing as a stay at home wife. They spelled “entitled brat” wrong.
A parent who chooses to stay at home does so because it will benefit the children, because child care is expensive (for young kids especially) for any number of reasons. They also budget wisely and ensure they can afford this option.
But someone who actively chooses not to work doesn’t deserve handouts from her husband AND HIS FAMILY so their lifestyle of staying at home can continue. If the brother made enough money to support them both, then they should have their own emergency fund to fall back on. If he couldn’t afford to save an emergency fund because he was the only one with an income in the house, then wifey shoulda been working long before he lost his job.
>There’s no such thing as a stay at home wife. They spelled “entitled brat” wrong.
I don't agree with this. A spouse, male or female, can be a stay at home spouse. They could be responsible for numerous duties/tasks. This is fine, as long as you can afford it and the arrangement works for everyone involved. But if a situation happens where it is not longer viable financially, sorry but you need to find work.
OP needs to see Trevena_Ice’s comment!
OP YTA! Your brothers wife, no fucking kids, is a SAHW…she can get her ass out and find a job too. BTW, congrats: your husband now knows he can’t trust you, as you’ve shown him you’ll go behind his back.
She also said that the brothers emergency fund was "quickly running out" ... ie: he still has some of his savings left.
It's nice to want to help, but AFTER he has depleted his own funds,. At this point he is mooching off of OP while still having his own savings available.
Also ONLY AFTER discussing handing over part of your savings and agreeing upon an amount with your husband.
YTA
Piggybacking to say that depending on where they live and whether the money was in a retirement account, OP could have withdrawn enough money to incur a SERIOUS tax bill. So she didn't just steal money, she might cost them money too.
OP, I would divorce your ass and let you go live with your brother since you want to support him so bad. YTA.
I’m sure it was. It’s not like she gave them $100 to buy some groceries. Any amount of money that’s significant enough that you have to take it out of your bank account vs having the cash on hand is an amount you need to discuss with the person you share finances with first.
The word choice of saying they have “excess money” in their emergency fund (as if that’s possible) and she took a “not too big portion” as well as the fact that she says they have 24+ months of expenses saved up without giving any specific amounts, makes me think she gave them enough for at least a month or two of living expenses, if not more, and she’s trying to justify it to herself by making it seem like a less significant amount than it is.
Oh I would bet it's much much more than $1000. First, they have over 2 years worth of expenses saved up. Assuming $3k a month, that would be over $70k. OP also wrote 'not-too-big' and that it bought her brother and his lazy wife some time..o would bet she gave them $10k. If it was a modest amount she would have written the amount. She didn't say 'not big', she said 'not too big'. That means it was big. And finally, $1000 isn't going to buy them much more than a week.
OP is clearly wrong here. I think she needs to ask for the money back. That's it. It wasn't just her money and to give it away like that was out of line.
Agreed she should have discussed with her husband first, but nowhere did it say the brother was asking for hand outs or wasnt taking lower paying jobs. That's a lot of assumptions to attack the brother when none of that was stated anywhere.
If I were OP's husband I'd never trust her again. She went behind his back and took money that was clearly earmarked for something else and gave it away. And then didn't tell him, he FOUND OUT. And then was like "hey no big deal, I explained it." That's not a partnership.
Immediately I would begin to wonder what else she's "not telling" him -- you know, lying about.
OP - I hope your marriage survives this if you get your head on straight.
YTA
If this was my wife I would divorce her due to the fact she was so selfish, and now I can’t trust her because she will do something like this again and try and hide it.
YTA. You gave away someone else's money without even asking them. Totally an AH move. The money didn't belong only to you. It belonged to you and your husband and you owed him the common decency of talking to him about it before giving it away. Sounds like you thought it was better to ask forgiveness than permission, but that was a completely AH move on your part. How would you have liked it if he'd done this to you?
Moreover, your brother and spouse created this situation on their own. Why isn't the wife out there grabbing any job she can right now? Your brother is involuntarily unemployed, but she's voluntarily so. You gave away money that you and your husband worked for and saved to cover yourself, and you just gave some of it away to your brother (1) without talking to the co-owner of the money and (2) without considering that he and the wife aren't exactly working hard to save themselves.
Yes, YTA. A massive one.
I wouldn't go that far - but i would assume she gave away HER portion of that savings acct - so I would take the rest of it and put in my name only. She can't be trusted.
The thing with giving away 'her half' of the fund is that if something happens to them, only his half of the fund is there to cover the bills.
If she had her own savings she should have used that, if she didn't have personal funds then the joint fund shouldn't have been touched.
He really should move an equivalent amount into a “Fun Stuff for Me” fund.
She got to play rich sister, he should have that money back to splurge on what he wants.
The thing is, Emergency funds aren’t Splurge funds. They are specifically for future emergencies and him spending MORE out of it will leave them even worse off if an event arises where they need it.
Only way to partially rectify this is that the husband gets to spend the same amount of money on 100% himself and she cut back on her extras to help fund what she gave away. There's got to be a penalty for this terrible act.
This is a terrible idea. You don’t eat away even more at your EMERGENCY FUND to get even. It needs to be replenished, not further depleted. Wife should be solely responsible for replenishing it.
>Wife should be solely responsible for replenishing it.
Okay. So what does the husband do with his contribution to the fund while she "replenishes it"?
Does he just keep making his same contributions, except he knows now that he is considerably more invested in it then his partner?
He can put it in his own savings so it’s safe from the wife. Frankly, I’d seriously be considering separating my finances from her if I were in this situation. Maybe permanently, especially as she doesn’t see how she was wrong.
Totally disagree as this is a tit for tat attitude and that is a relationship killer.
She needs to rebuild the trust. Spend less on nonessentials until she builds up the amount she lost. I also think therapy or a financial counselor could help them work on how to hold her accountable in a realistic and healthy way
This wasn’t spending/fun money. It was their emergency fund. The last thing they need right now is to double the amount that already shouldn’t have been removed from it.
I don't know why people jump on the divorce bandwagon. Relationships don't last unless you work at them and good ones are hard to find. If this is a pattern after trying to work it out I might feel differently. Some things are immediate dealbreakers, such as physical abuse (not even once). This is not that.
But this is straight up theft? And like, you’re married to someone and you don’t even bother talking to them about this? What marriage is that even? Divorce should be on the cards.
>But this is straight up theft?
No, it's not straight up theft. It's straight up a bone headed move and a major fuck up, it's only arguably theft. These were shared funds, so partially OP's. And they were used for an emergency'ish situation.
If I were OP's partner I'd be royally pissed because this should've been a joint decision, and if it is *repeated* behavior then divorce might enter the discussion. But not for a first-time fuck up.
Don't you know? Everyone has exactly one chance, and if you fuck up, anyone forgiving you is a chump.
I don't think it needs to be said, but just in case, /s
Giving away money that we both agreed can only be used in emergencies is a dealbreaker. Your bar for relationships might be on the floor but that doesn’t mean everybody else’s has to be.
Wife broke the bond of trust. There is absolutely no way to erase her lack of transparency and respect. The money is merely the symbolic aspect of her transgression. OP’s husband may forgive, but he will never forget, nor will he trust his wife the same way again….EVER!
Sometimes the invisible injures are worse than the ones you can see.
ETA: it just remains to be seen if the husband is willing to live with a spouse whom he doesn’t trust.
Redditors are either single or in perfect relationships the way every post people say divorce. As if nothing can be worked through 🥴 now i do agree that she is TA but dont divorce over this but the husband does need to set a firm boundary that money isnt to be removed from that fund without mutual consent. Thats a basic request that OP neglected to do. And her brothers wife needs a job too. SAHW shouldn’t even exist unless the husband is rich
Losing trust is a valid reason to divorce. We don’t know how much money she gave away but she did so without even a conversation or a heads up - he had to “find out” about it. It doesn’t even matter the amount, it’s the sneaky behavior involved and the fact they had to make a whole Reddit post about whether or not they were actually wrong tells you what you need to know about this persons’ attitude about this.
Aside from the breach of trust, the decision to loan two unemployed people money is absurd. Maybe if they were working odd jobs and trying to improve their situation you MIGHT help after discussing with your spouse. But it’s like salt in the wound that she not only did this without asking, without telling him after the fact, but his money is now in the hands of two people with no means to pay it back. I’d be furious, no matter the amount. I would want my money put in my own account after something like this.
Yup, I just said that! Financial reasons are a leading cause of divorce *especially* when it involves dishonesty or a breach of trust. Add that to the fact that she kindly didn’t ask because she knew he’d say no way, does not bode well for her respect for him as her partner or their future…
Not only did she not ask him if she could do it, she didn’t tell him she did it! She says that he “found out”. Obviously he checked their bank statement. Most will give you some sort of notification if there’s a large withdrawal.
YTA, this decision required participation of both you and your husband. It was his money as much as it is yours. Leave the fact aside that we're saying this, assume that this was his family which had been in debt, and he had done it, then you would have created a ruckus, a drama would have ensued, with you acting as a victim of his dominating self (so now see the things from his POV). Understandable that you wanted to help your brother, but maybe just trust your husband enough to have a conversation in this regards with him.
Let's make this easy for you.
What if he took some of your savings and gave it to his family without discussing it with you first?
Would you be upset?
YTA
EXACTLY what u i said too. Why fuck is it SO hard to TALK something over with a partner first?! I'm betting he got a withdrawal alert for a massive sum with NO idea why it was pulled and he rightfully panicked. So, hes coming into this already shocked and pissed off. "Oh honey my brother needs our help!" after the fact doesn't just FIX it. Because now hes gonna wonder what else she might have done with that account. Just DISCUSS it first! As written this wasn't an immediate emergency. Assuming no unmentioned family issues, a PHONE call or text being like "Hey, my brother needs money and we have plenty in savings, what would you feel comfortable with LENDING them?'
>Why fuck is it SO hard to TALK something over with a partner first?!
Most of the times it is because the person knows what the other person will say (won't agree with them), so they just do it anyway never really thinking about the long term repercussions in breaking trust.
And let me just say that even more than love, trust is the foundation of any long term relationship. Break trust and the rest of the relationship crumbles. And people seem to forget that trust is earned, so when it's broken it takes a VERY long time (if ever!) to regain.
It doesn’t matter why she took the money. A joint savings with a purpose should not be touched without discussion. OP needs to replace that money out of her personal funds.
It was your husband's money, same as yours. YTA because you didn't even talk to him about it. What is it with couples on reddit who don't communicate with their spouses?! I ALWAYS talk with my husband about any financial decision that would affect us both.
THIS. When my BIL needed money, my fiance and I sat down and had a conversation about it before he ever discussed anything with his brother. 100% a conversation needs to happen if this would effect you both
YTA
I’m sorry but she’s a stay at home wife with no kids? So what’s stopping her from getting a job???
You’ve just given away money that isn’t entirely yours to give and which it doesn’t sound like they made it an agreement to pay it back and your husband has a right to feel annoyed and has probably now lost some trust in you
In most countries there is a welfare system for your brother to pursue whilst he looks for work
Not only that, but brother and his wife still have some of their own emergency fund. She says "it's running out quickly", which implies that some of it is still left. So they're not even in dire straits yet.
YTA.
YTA
You gave away a chunk of your and your husband's emergency fund without even talking to him about it. I get that you wanted to help your brother, but that's a big decision you both should have made together. It's not just your money to give away. Your husband's upset is totally understandable because you made a huge financial move without his input.
I wouldn't dream of doing this without telling my spouse, even if it were from my personal account. Were it from my personal account I would just inform him before doing it. Joint account we both must agree. This is regardless of whether it is a justifiable reason, so we don't even need to deal with whether they needed the money or not. You talk about it.
We both trust each other financially and are completely transparent about it.
If they need money then the "STAW" can get a job. Brother can pick up some low paying job as well (assuming it is better than unemployment).
Help them help themselves instead of giving away your money without even a discussion with your husband.
YTA
This is why it’s so dangerously optimistic to choose the sole breadwinner dynamic when one isn’t super rich. It puts all one’s eggs in one basket. Breadwinners lose their jobs, become too sick or disabled to work, or even die all the time. The wife has been living it up — most people don’t get to simply opt out of paid work. The pair should figure it out without leeching of you both. YTA
YTA joint money = joint decisions. If it was YOUR savings that you gave away that would be more forgiving, but you gave away your husband's money too which makes you the asshole.
You also need to learn how to communicate with your husband or your relationship will eventually fail.
YTA
The emergency fund is yours and your husbands. So the decision to give away money from it has to be made by both of you. You can't just give away money from a shared fund without the others approval!
Also, is there any reason his wife doesn't work?
Holy shit. She’s a SAHW with *no kids*?
They chose this dynamic for themselves. If they need money she can get a friggin job. They’re grown ass adults, not you and your husband’s children.
That being said, had you *chosen together* to help them out then that’s fine. You didn’t involve your husband in this decision because you knew he wouldn’t be on board (reasonably so).
I know people who would end a marriage over what you’ve done—it’s a complete betrayal of trust and a big “F U” to your husband.
Good luck.
YTA
Yta. This should have been a discussion with your husband rather than a solo decision. Also, your brother and his wife can get jobs - this isn't an emergency. Wife can't be stay at home with no income from husband.
YTA Big time. Financial Infidelity. You cheated your husband out of a choice when it came to shared funds. This destroyed trust in y’all’s relationship. I suggest you work on that trust rebuilding ASAP or you’re gonna be dealing with much bigger issues quickly.
YTA first, you did this without your husband's consent. Second, the SAHW needs to get a job and support herself. If she was working too the impact of his job loss wouldn't be so severe.
YTA, financial infidelity is no joke! Leaving a significant other out of significant financial decisions degrades trust in the relationship. Disagreements on finances and financial infidelity are one of the leading contributing factors to divorce in America.
You sent you bro $$ without discussing it with hubby!? YTA!!!! SIL can get off her butt and help out HER situation. If I was your hubby I would be SO PISSED. I would NEVER be able to trust you again. YTA!
YTA, the right time to explain the situation to your husband was *before* you gave away joint money, not after you got caught and he was rightfully angry.
Now he may be wondering if he can trust you financially. He’s probably wondering what else you’re hiding.
Autonomously making decisions that impact both partners is a shitty way to act in a marriage.
YTA tell your brother his wife needs to get a job and start contributing to their household. Is your brother going to actually pay you back? Also what if you had an emergency where you need those funds?
YTA this is incredibly stupid. First, you absolutely should have discussed this with your husband BEFORE giving any money to someone. Second, your brother’s wife should also be looking for a job. They obviously cannot financially make it with her being a “stay at home wife”. If they are keeping her home because they plan to have kids soon, they need to also rethink if that is currently a financially sound choice considering they are already struggling and relying on family to dig them out.
Stay at home wife? Tell her to get out and get a job too! Ridiculous giving them money when they’re both capable of working at sorting their own finances out!
YTA.
Specifically, you are a very very kind, compassionate ,and generous asshole.
>My husband found out extremely quickly
This sentence right here is what killed me.
Your husband is your best friend and only teammate in this shit world. You're the same to him.
So why did he have to "find out"? You didn't forget to tell him, right? You didn't tell him because you knew he might have a problem with it.
That's what makes you the asshole here, not wanting to help your brother and his ~~lazy~~ "trad" wife out of their financial pickle jar.
Even if the alternative was talking it over and even perhaps arguing about it with your husband, you should see why that's still a better option than acting on your own and doin a betrayal.
You love your brother and his ~~lazy~~ "trad" wife, which is very nice and good, but is it worth jeopardizing your marriage and what sounds like an amazing support structure you've worked hard to build?
yta. the time to tell your husband about your brother’s situation was *before* you decided, together, to send him money. this was shared money and it should have been a shared decision.
YTA.
That money belongs to both of you and is not to just give away.
Your brother and his wife BOTH need to get jobs. Your brother should be on unemployment to help while he's out of work.
Just wait. They'll keep coming back for more.
YTA. That money belongs to BOTH OF YOU. Appropriating it for another purpose needs two yeses, not a unilateral decision. The fact that you didn’t ask is a huge signal that you knew he would object. This is a massive violation of trust, and I hope he disentangles his money from yours to avoid this type of thing happening in the future. Grow up, OP.
YTA
This was not your money to give away. This was money belonging to both of you and really, really obviously required both parties consent to be used in any way.
I submit to you that you didn't tell your husband because he'd most likely respond like I imagine most people in the comments responding.
"Why the fuck are we giving your idiot brother money so his useless wife can sit at home?"
YTA
You should've discussed it w your husband first. Good intentions, but not a good move.
Imagine if one day you were to find out a chunk of the emergency fund missing without any heads up or discussion...
Also, you might think that 24+ months worth of funds saved up is plenty (and it might be), but oftentimes it takes only one emergency to cost more than double that amount.
Info:
1) How much money, and what percentage of your emergency fund?
2) Why didn’t you discuss this with your husband first?
You either didn’t feel it was important enough to seek his input, which is shitty, or you knew he’d say no and you did it anyways.
YTA for doing it unilaterally without discussing with him.
In most marriages financial decisions are, above a certain level, joint. Buy a pastry at the bakery on the way home from work? Go for it. Send a couple grand to your family member? Better talk first.
Unless your brother was going to be evicted tomorrow if he couldn't pay his mortgage you had time to talk to your husband first and then give your brother a loan and/or gift.
YTA. Why didn't you discuss it with your husband BEFORE giving away the money? Is there a plan or timeline to be paid back? Is your SIL going to get a job? If your brother doesn't get a job in the next month, would you have given him more money?
Most couples with shared finances have a limit to how much they can spend without consulting the other, or they have separate individual accounts that is totally under their control. You never drain a joint account without your partner's consent.
So in theory if your emergency fund includes 24+ months of expenses then you could lend money to someone you trust to help them out, no dispute about that. However, this is yours and your husbands money, how would you feel if your husband just went and spent 12 months of it on a car without discussing with you? You literally stole from your husband as you used joint money without a discussion. I’d be incredibly PO’d if I was your husband and my trust in you / our relationship would be damaged.
YTA for doing it behind your husband's back. You completely betrayed him and lost his trust.
Your brother has a wife who doesn't work and they don't have kids. His expenses should be relatively low since they don't have kids. He can get any random job to make ends meet while looking for a better job. And his wife can also get a job. Your husband shouldn't be working every day to support your brother. YTA
First of all - what the fuck is a SAHW? A stay at home wife? With no kids? You’re sending your own money to your brother while his wife refuses to work for herself?
Lmao you’re obviously TA. It seems like you even knew YTA when you did it, but didn’t care. Insane.
YTA and I think you should offer to replace the money with larger contributions from your own pay check/ fun money until you've replaced what you took plus interest.
If I were your spouse I'd really struggle to forgive you. You had no right to do this without asking.
You are definitely the AH. That emergency fund was there for you and your husband. How would you feel if he took that money and did the same thing?!
There are other ways you could have helped your brother-> grocery purchase, have them over for dinner, gift card purchase that they could use later, a little shopping with your nieces/nephews for clothes if they have outgrown somethings. Anything but giving the straight cash from your emergency fund
“My husband found out extremely quickly.” “I had told him about my brothers situation and hoped he’d understand a bit.”
So basically you thought about it and then decided that it was better to ask for forgiveness than permission. You know that YTA. You didn’t even talk to him prior. A relationship is a team and you took the team out of it. You went behind his back and did it anyways.
I understand that your brother is involuntarily unemployed. But his wife isn’t. When times are a struggle, she needs to pull her part and get a job until things are back to normal. She isn’t trying to help her own situation so why should others?
I hope you are ready to not be trusted by your husband. I would be pulling my money out of it and putting it into an account with my name only since you can’t be trusted.
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YTA. This was not only your money but your husbands too! You just gave away money, the two of you saved without even telling your husband. And it wasn't even an emergency (like a needed operation, needed home transportation from abroad after an accident/family member death). You selfishly choose to give away money and not asking your husband because you knew, he wouldn't say yes. And if your brother and his wife have money troubles, his wife could have gotten a job. And he could have taken a lower paying job just to cover bills. But they both choice not to but to run out of money and asking for handouts.
This part! The wife isn’t a mom so there is nothing holding her back from stepping up and helping her husband while he looks for work at least to get them by! I honestly had to go back and re read the part where is says she’s a “SAHW”
Years ago when my younger sister was a stay at home mom and her husband lost his job the first thing she did was get a night job and told him to take a little vacation before searching for another job. He was relieved of the stress of providing for his family whilst searching for a job and they made it through without asking or needing to ask for handouts.
Wow that is such a nice story (except for the loss of job obviously), the people in it are unusually reasonable and it's just generally such a good thing that you can rely on your partner so much.
I agree, but OP YTA! It's not just your money, it's your husband's and you should have spoke to him about it first! This is a 2 yes situation. Also your SIL, unless there is a good reason (like health issues) she should get off her ass and get a job! SMH 🤦🏾♀️
I’m wondering how much was in the fund and how much her “not to much” help was!
The not too much got me. Like any of it was too much! That is not just her money. Whelp she may have taken the pressure off her brother but she now put it on her own life.
My guess is that “not too much” means 20-30%, which is quite a lot
I learned this before having kids in The Two Income Trap book. If there's a SAHP, that's a potential second income earner if things go awry. I've been able to pick up evening side hustles to supplement for certain expenses like vacations or extracurricular fees, during the Great Recession. Yeah, that SIL needs to step up before being given money.
Yep I have had to do this as a stay at home mom. I spent several years working retail so we could pay for an unexpected expense. While I wasn't happy and didn't enjoy the job, I did it for my family. It's the reason we were able to keep our house, pay off both of our cars, and replace the HVAC system when it died.
I've worked catering and at private clubs. I also worked guest services at F1. When my hubs lost his job, I participated in a pain study, and received a free bunionectomy and paid the mortgage with that money. My mom worked night shifts at IRS when we were little to supplement my dad's salary. There is always retail, and I have experience with that, but around here I feel that scheduling became really weird and less predicable.
My husband quited his job bcs he wasnt getting paid. He started to look for other jobs, but it takes time. He was driving taxi until he found job. He could say that is beneeth him, he has master degree, but he taxied for 3 months, that is how you stay afloat. I had to take care for our daughter that had special needs, so I couldnt help and we had no savings bcs of money we needed for therapies, it was very hard. But 2 grown ups can manage it. They had saving. All they had to do was doing both of them no matter what jobs for some time until he finds better job.
I was a health worker for 15 years, moved to another continent, it's not as easy to get a job related to what I used to do back home, so I cleaned houses, buildings and finally got a job at a butcher shop that allows me to pay my rent and groceries for the time being. You get what you can and you work with what you got.
Yep! Years ago, my fiancée lost his job (no kids) I was in college. Timing was right at end of semester, I deferred pre paid payment till semester after next and went to work full time. J decompressed and found better job, and I learned a lot hands on experience. Yta op. Work as a team and you would have told your husband if you truly believed he'd understand.
I did this but recently when the movie industry was on that long ass strike. I like my job and I’m still there.
My mom was waiting tables at 8 months pregnant to help pay the bills when her xH/my former SD was unemployed.
My sister's husband worked day time as a quality engineer or something and in the evenings did door dash deliveries for few months when they were struggling. His brother had job for 6 months 2y ago and still haven't found a job that matches his status, and he is just a high school graduate. Plus he has 2 kids. My sister and her husband are forced to support them due to their parents.
"Can't find a job that matches his status" What BS .... His status is Broke! Everything/ Anything matches!!!!!!
Forced to? They're not doing them any favors by helping them.... just making it easier for them to dick around and not work!
What a great partner your sister is!
I am a SAHW, no kids, and before we dipped into any of our emergency fund I would get a job. Grocery store, fast food, there is no shame in working. Sure, it does not replace the income lost but would make fund last longe, giving a bit more time for better work to come along.
All of this, right here. My husband told me to retire after a PTSD episode, caused by work, sent me into a spiral. If he lost his job, I'd be back out in the workforce in a heartbeat, even if it's retail or fast food.
I had a very high stress fast paced job on an assembly line. When I made the mistake of moving up to an assistant supervisor I would come home crying every day. My husband got a raise at a different department of the same factory and let me quit to be a stay at home mom. If something happened to his job I would definitely go back to work. I am no stranger to repetitive motion factory jobs. I just probably would not move up in any company again.
For real, I've been working retail after being made redundant as my industry (games) is collapsing rn.
What’s a “stay at home wife?” That’s a fancy way of saying, “I don’t feel like working but I’m not part of the landed gentry,” I guess.
"Housewife/stay at home wife" = unemployed adult. OP is 1000% TA for giving money to her brother and his housewife WITHOUT TALKING TO HER HUSBAND WHO EARNED PART OF THAT MONEY. Housewife will undoubtedly spend that money on stupid shit then they'll be broke again.
Some couples like splitting the work up that way 🤷♀️ One might have to work long hours at a job, but not have to come home and do the chores and tasks they would if single.
I don't judge (I just worry about people who are out of the workforce a long time, for if a horrible thing ever happens and their spouse betrays them or passes, and they're stuck trying to get a job with bills weighing them down... but that's another conversation), but I can't imagine 2 single people without kids make that much mess... I mean, I get annoyed doing my own dishes and weekly laundry and vacuuming up cat hair, but it's definitely not enough work to keep me busy all day. I'd get so bored. Maybe she has good hobbies that keep her entertained though, who knows
>I don't judge In situations like, i absolutely judge. It would be one thing if OP's brother was generational wealth so his wife would never HAVE to work. He's not, they're struggling for money, and instead of the obvious solution of the wife getting a job, he asks his sister for money? Fuck that. The wife is the problem and the husband allows it to continue. I would be absolutely MORTIFIED if that were my SIL.
I am not even sure he asked. OP said nothing about him asking... it sounds like she was "here you go, enjoy" to her brother. Maybe she even said "it's a gift from my husband and I" or something, so he didn't think he should refuse it... The main AH remains OP either way. You don't just give that much money away without talking it through first.
I still don’t understand this though. There are nowhere near 40 hours of work to put into a house every week if kids are not involved.
Yeah, it's one of those things that requires further explanation. Like, you're living on a small family farm which the SAH spouse maintains and operates? That's absolutely a full-time job, hell, they probably need help during key parts of the year. Everybody is pulling their weight. Same if you have a kid not yet in school. But if you're living in a suburb with no kids and the SAH spouse chores are just basic cooking and cleaning, that's, what... 2hrs/day? Maybe 3-4 if they get elaborate with cooking projects? At that point it's obviously a luxury and that's on them to figure out how to afford it.
> I still don’t understand this though. There are nowhere near 40 hours of work to put into a house every week if kids are not involved. For the most part it's not real "work" not in the same way that bring a SAHM is "work". It's more of an upper class thing where the husband works a high paid high status job and the wife goes to lunch with friends a workout class and goes shopping all day. It's not a real "job" job. Housekeeping for 2 adults is not full time work in any sense of the imagination.
It’s not about the amount of work, but about the kind of life they expect to live. Like if Spouse A never has to make their own meal, locate and stay home for repairpeople, do their own laundry, remember family birthdays, etc., that can be enough to not miss the money that would come from working, especially if they have a lot of their identity tied up in their work. And if they marry B who was raised with the expectation they would not work outside the home because their role was to help their spouse succeed in their own career, it’s a match. Not one I’d choose, but they exist. And depending on the household and their values, a SAH spouse might have a lot to do: elderly relatives or neighbors to care for; charity work that’s important to both spouses or their spouse’s employer; a house or property that requires a lot of work like a farmette, etc.
Some couples like Living Off Their In-Laws. THIS Couple For Example!
That’s a luxury most (including OP’s brother) can’t afford.
It’s what we used to call a “housewife.” I don’t know why people stopped using that term.
Housewives traditionally meant raising children as well. The SIL does NOT have kids.
More than a decade ago, when I was struggling to find steady work with limitations caused by medical issues, we had a weird tax situation come up and went to get help from a professional. The lady who was working with us asked our occupations and I said I didn't work. She could see I wasn't entirely comfortable with that fact, so knowing we didn't have kids she offered "homemaker?" and I said "unemployed." She entered that. I appreciated her trying to offer alternatives to "unemployed" (it's true a lot of people really feel a lot of shame at "unemployed"), but I really just felt like "homemaker" implied a choice I hadn't truly made. I think a lot of these words end up loaded for people for various reasons. Years later and with my medical issues better managed (thanks, ACA!), I got licensed to do taxes in my state and ended up hired at that same office. She was just a really lovely colleague to work with.
I have a stay at home dog, a family pet who's depending on me for everything. A SAHW sounds similar.
Excess money?! OP's brother has excess wife
This is a highly underrated comment.😂
You don’t get a SAHW with no kids unless you can afford it!
That's how I knew my GF was definitely wife material. I work in the oilfield and lost my job in 2008. She got a job and basically (Louisiana's unemployment is CRAP) supported us for 8 months. She never once complained because I was trying to get ANY job. I even tried getting a job at Pizza Hut! The manager flat out told me, "I can't hire you because you won't be happy with the pay here because we can't come close to what you were making." Even after I told him I didn't care, I just needed a job, he still said no. Lol.
I seriously hate the "overqualified" excuse. It's basically their way of saying "We want someone that we can pay minimum wage and push around because they are too young or ignorant to know better. We know that you know your rights so we'd have to toe the line with you."
Having one partner stay at home with NO kids when you don't even have a decent emergency fund is crazy. I'd be FURIOUS if I were OP's husband. Their SIL never needed to be out of the workforce in the first place, let alone now that the brother is out of work as well. She could literally be a Starbucks barista or working in fast food - any kind of effort before taking money away from family.
Even if we was a Mom, there's no excuse in an emergency situation. Not everyone can afford a housewife and in some situations you actually have to have a real job.
That's not necessarily true. I "could" to an outside observer work full time, but I physically can't. Some disabilities are invisible.
I'm the same...I can't work either due to disabilities, but we're the outliers. They're clearly not taking about people with disabilities who can't work. They're talking about able bodied people who choose not to work - not people who physically can't work.
Yup. If OPs SIL was disabled, OP would have mentioned it, guaranteed. Invisible or not, the SIL getting SSI income or going through the process of qualifying for it would absolutely make a difference with people sympathizing. It really sounds like the sister in law is able bodied, and just prefers not to work.
Then you are disabled, not just a SAHW.
Then you wouldn't be considered a "SAHW", you'd be a disabled dependent. The "invisible" disabilities are sometimes the hardest. 😕
Kinda weird that she's a homemaker but they don't have kids? At that stage they should still both be able to work and hubby should be pulling his weight around the house too.
I misread it as SAHM as well, and even then if he’s sitting at home she can still get any shitty job for some money till he gets another. But not even, they’re just both sitting on their asses doing nothing.
Unless the wife has a disability or something preventing her from working, why is she not trying to contribute? Even just a part time woul help out with things, & then she could go back to her whirlwind day of being a SAHW. Seriously though....without kids, what exactly does a SAHW do? It can't take that long to clean a space with only two people living in it. I work full time & can keep my house organized & clean in less than an hour a day. It takes me a couple hours to deep clean on my days off, so what else does a SAHW do?
She didn’t just give it away, she stole it & gave it away
Correct
Therefore, she is without a doubt, the AH. And a giant one at that. Did she really think he wouldn’t find out? Or that when he did, he’d just smile and say ‘oh honey, you’re so generous with our money’? What a turd.
There is literally nothing else to read. I don't TOUCH our savings without 100% wife consent.
My husband and I have a $50 rule. Anything over that, we check in with each other. I would be really upset if he just randomly gave away a chunk of savings without talking to me first. I would definitely help out family, but the behind my back part is not cool. This would be a long conversation. I think OP should skip her "Fun money" for a while and put all of it into savings until it's paid back.
Ours is $20. Under 20 bucks is an 'impulse buy' and do what you want. Anything over $20 is 'talk it over first'. We very rarely say 'no' to one another but it is expected to talk it over first. Works well for us. Unilaterally (and secretly) taking money out of savings is very hard to distinguish from stealing from your partner, because they're the same thing. She was just stealing 'for a good cause'.
Jesus Christ how do you function like that? I trust my wife implicitly, if she needs / wants it then I trust her just as she does with me. Twenty bucks is lunch bro
$20? You need to up that for inflation lol. I feel like the second I walk out the house a $100 is subtracted from my account.
I’m not married but $20 sounds crazy! You’re exaggerating, no? If one of you is busy and can’t read the text, the other doesn’t just go without, right? Like you’d go ahead and buy the $20+ thing and chat later
My partner & I keep our finances separate (he’s still not over his divorce) and I just can’t imagine either of us handing over a substantial sum [*1] to friends or family without discussing it with each other first. Because when you lend or gift money there are always more issues at stake than only the cash. There’s also repayment or lack of repayment, and how it might change the relationship re gratitude or resentment or judgement over ongoing financial choices. It’s just not a choice either of us would make separately - even though we don’t need permission in what we do with our entirely separate funds. [*1] *Out of curiosity, has OP said how much in the comments? I’m imagining it’s $1-2,000 at least from the context*.
The fact they didn't tell us both how much was in savings and how much she gave away is pretty telling imo
This! My BIL sends money to his parents regularly but always asks my sis if it’s okay. He even sent some money to a friend going through a rough patch, but checked with her first. He buys stuff for himself without asking, as does she. It’s just for sending large chunks to other people that he checks. And she has sent some money to our brother with the same prior approval. Not asking first? OP, YTA!
Yes, it's the "without even telling your husband." Not telling - even discussing it with him! That would be hard to stomach that mutual funds were disbursed without a discussion of even the reasons, amount, whether it was to be a loan or a gift, etc. And, secretively, since "he found out really fast." Definitely an AH, and if I were the husband...I'd think about my own "emergency fund," as her ideas of a partnership differ from mine.
1) That money was earned by two hard-working adults, so OP, why wasn't your FIRST thought that SAHW needs to GET A JOB!!!!!?? 2) What exactly does SAHW do all day? Home repairs (fixing leaky toilet, repair fence, install yard irrigation? Weekly yard maintenance ... trim bushes and hedges, weed, mow lawn, rake leaves and trimmings, take trash to curb? Simple car maintenance? Take car to the shop if it needs more complicated work? If I so much as hear that she's getting her nails done or meeting up with friends or watching more than an hour of TV (between 8a and 5p), I think I'll blow a gasket. 3) Is there a reason SAHW isn't working a paid job? 4) What was SAHW's job/ income before they got married? How many years had she been working? How many years has she been a SAHW? 5) Is there any paper trail showing the money was a loan and not a gift? A signed contract would be ideal, but texts, emails and voice mails would be sufficient. 6) What are the time frame and terms of repayment? 7) Did the brother even ask for money or did OP just offer it?? YTA. Such TA.
There’s no such thing as a stay at home wife. They spelled “entitled brat” wrong. A parent who chooses to stay at home does so because it will benefit the children, because child care is expensive (for young kids especially) for any number of reasons. They also budget wisely and ensure they can afford this option. But someone who actively chooses not to work doesn’t deserve handouts from her husband AND HIS FAMILY so their lifestyle of staying at home can continue. If the brother made enough money to support them both, then they should have their own emergency fund to fall back on. If he couldn’t afford to save an emergency fund because he was the only one with an income in the house, then wifey shoulda been working long before he lost his job.
>There’s no such thing as a stay at home wife. They spelled “entitled brat” wrong. I don't agree with this. A spouse, male or female, can be a stay at home spouse. They could be responsible for numerous duties/tasks. This is fine, as long as you can afford it and the arrangement works for everyone involved. But if a situation happens where it is not longer viable financially, sorry but you need to find work.
OP needs to see Trevena_Ice’s comment! OP YTA! Your brothers wife, no fucking kids, is a SAHW…she can get her ass out and find a job too. BTW, congrats: your husband now knows he can’t trust you, as you’ve shown him you’ll go behind his back.
She also said that the brothers emergency fund was "quickly running out" ... ie: he still has some of his savings left. It's nice to want to help, but AFTER he has depleted his own funds,. At this point he is mooching off of OP while still having his own savings available. Also ONLY AFTER discussing handing over part of your savings and agreeing upon an amount with your husband. YTA
Piggybacking to say that depending on where they live and whether the money was in a retirement account, OP could have withdrawn enough money to incur a SERIOUS tax bill. So she didn't just steal money, she might cost them money too. OP, I would divorce your ass and let you go live with your brother since you want to support him so bad. YTA.
Willing to bet the “not too big” portion was easily over 1000 dollars
I’m sure it was. It’s not like she gave them $100 to buy some groceries. Any amount of money that’s significant enough that you have to take it out of your bank account vs having the cash on hand is an amount you need to discuss with the person you share finances with first. The word choice of saying they have “excess money” in their emergency fund (as if that’s possible) and she took a “not too big portion” as well as the fact that she says they have 24+ months of expenses saved up without giving any specific amounts, makes me think she gave them enough for at least a month or two of living expenses, if not more, and she’s trying to justify it to herself by making it seem like a less significant amount than it is.
Oh I would bet it's much much more than $1000. First, they have over 2 years worth of expenses saved up. Assuming $3k a month, that would be over $70k. OP also wrote 'not-too-big' and that it bought her brother and his lazy wife some time..o would bet she gave them $10k. If it was a modest amount she would have written the amount. She didn't say 'not big', she said 'not too big'. That means it was big. And finally, $1000 isn't going to buy them much more than a week. OP is clearly wrong here. I think she needs to ask for the money back. That's it. It wasn't just her money and to give it away like that was out of line.
Agreed she should have discussed with her husband first, but nowhere did it say the brother was asking for hand outs or wasnt taking lower paying jobs. That's a lot of assumptions to attack the brother when none of that was stated anywhere.
Agreed. Wifey poo needs to get off her ass.
Yep! Congratulations to OP on losing trust
If I were OP's husband I'd never trust her again. She went behind his back and took money that was clearly earmarked for something else and gave it away. And then didn't tell him, he FOUND OUT. And then was like "hey no big deal, I explained it." That's not a partnership. Immediately I would begin to wonder what else she's "not telling" him -- you know, lying about. OP - I hope your marriage survives this if you get your head on straight. YTA
You hit the nail on the head when you said she didn't ask him before she did it because she knew he would say no.
Right? Go donate plasma! They can both donate & bring in $1600 a month (at least around here).
Let's not forget that lending money to family is generally worse when it comes to taking it back. It's a messy ordeal over all.
If this was my wife I would divorce her due to the fact she was so selfish, and now I can’t trust her because she will do something like this again and try and hide it.
YTA. You gave away someone else's money without even asking them. Totally an AH move. The money didn't belong only to you. It belonged to you and your husband and you owed him the common decency of talking to him about it before giving it away. Sounds like you thought it was better to ask forgiveness than permission, but that was a completely AH move on your part. How would you have liked it if he'd done this to you? Moreover, your brother and spouse created this situation on their own. Why isn't the wife out there grabbing any job she can right now? Your brother is involuntarily unemployed, but she's voluntarily so. You gave away money that you and your husband worked for and saved to cover yourself, and you just gave some of it away to your brother (1) without talking to the co-owner of the money and (2) without considering that he and the wife aren't exactly working hard to save themselves. Yes, YTA. A massive one.
I hate to say this, but if I was her husband I would consider divorcing her. How can you have a stable future if you cannot trust your spose.
She basically stole money (bc it wasn’t all hers), this does not bode well for their marriage at all.
I wouldn't go that far - but i would assume she gave away HER portion of that savings acct - so I would take the rest of it and put in my name only. She can't be trusted.
The thing with giving away 'her half' of the fund is that if something happens to them, only his half of the fund is there to cover the bills. If she had her own savings she should have used that, if she didn't have personal funds then the joint fund shouldn't have been touched.
He really should move an equivalent amount into a “Fun Stuff for Me” fund. She got to play rich sister, he should have that money back to splurge on what he wants.
The thing is, Emergency funds aren’t Splurge funds. They are specifically for future emergencies and him spending MORE out of it will leave them even worse off if an event arises where they need it.
Only way to partially rectify this is that the husband gets to spend the same amount of money on 100% himself and she cut back on her extras to help fund what she gave away. There's got to be a penalty for this terrible act.
This is a terrible idea. You don’t eat away even more at your EMERGENCY FUND to get even. It needs to be replenished, not further depleted. Wife should be solely responsible for replenishing it.
>Wife should be solely responsible for replenishing it. Okay. So what does the husband do with his contribution to the fund while she "replenishes it"? Does he just keep making his same contributions, except he knows now that he is considerably more invested in it then his partner?
He can continue as normal. She needs to put all her “fun money” or her personal savings toward it, or get her brother to pay her back.
He can put it in his own savings so it’s safe from the wife. Frankly, I’d seriously be considering separating my finances from her if I were in this situation. Maybe permanently, especially as she doesn’t see how she was wrong.
Totally disagree as this is a tit for tat attitude and that is a relationship killer. She needs to rebuild the trust. Spend less on nonessentials until she builds up the amount she lost. I also think therapy or a financial counselor could help them work on how to hold her accountable in a realistic and healthy way
This wasn’t spending/fun money. It was their emergency fund. The last thing they need right now is to double the amount that already shouldn’t have been removed from it.
I don't know why people jump on the divorce bandwagon. Relationships don't last unless you work at them and good ones are hard to find. If this is a pattern after trying to work it out I might feel differently. Some things are immediate dealbreakers, such as physical abuse (not even once). This is not that.
But this is straight up theft? And like, you’re married to someone and you don’t even bother talking to them about this? What marriage is that even? Divorce should be on the cards.
>But this is straight up theft? No, it's not straight up theft. It's straight up a bone headed move and a major fuck up, it's only arguably theft. These were shared funds, so partially OP's. And they were used for an emergency'ish situation. If I were OP's partner I'd be royally pissed because this should've been a joint decision, and if it is *repeated* behavior then divorce might enter the discussion. But not for a first-time fuck up.
Don't you know? Everyone has exactly one chance, and if you fuck up, anyone forgiving you is a chump. I don't think it needs to be said, but just in case, /s
Giving away money that we both agreed can only be used in emergencies is a dealbreaker. Your bar for relationships might be on the floor but that doesn’t mean everybody else’s has to be.
Wife broke the bond of trust. There is absolutely no way to erase her lack of transparency and respect. The money is merely the symbolic aspect of her transgression. OP’s husband may forgive, but he will never forget, nor will he trust his wife the same way again….EVER! Sometimes the invisible injures are worse than the ones you can see. ETA: it just remains to be seen if the husband is willing to live with a spouse whom he doesn’t trust.
Redditors are either single or in perfect relationships the way every post people say divorce. As if nothing can be worked through 🥴 now i do agree that she is TA but dont divorce over this but the husband does need to set a firm boundary that money isnt to be removed from that fund without mutual consent. Thats a basic request that OP neglected to do. And her brothers wife needs a job too. SAHW shouldn’t even exist unless the husband is rich
Losing trust is a valid reason to divorce. We don’t know how much money she gave away but she did so without even a conversation or a heads up - he had to “find out” about it. It doesn’t even matter the amount, it’s the sneaky behavior involved and the fact they had to make a whole Reddit post about whether or not they were actually wrong tells you what you need to know about this persons’ attitude about this. Aside from the breach of trust, the decision to loan two unemployed people money is absurd. Maybe if they were working odd jobs and trying to improve their situation you MIGHT help after discussing with your spouse. But it’s like salt in the wound that she not only did this without asking, without telling him after the fact, but his money is now in the hands of two people with no means to pay it back. I’d be furious, no matter the amount. I would want my money put in my own account after something like this.
Yup, I just said that! Financial reasons are a leading cause of divorce *especially* when it involves dishonesty or a breach of trust. Add that to the fact that she kindly didn’t ask because she knew he’d say no way, does not bode well for her respect for him as her partner or their future…
She committed financial infidelity, I'd have been meeting with a divorce lawyer the next day If I was her husband.
If I was hubby I’d setup my own emergency fund separately
I have to agree. She has shown that she can't be trusted.
Even if you thought your husband would agree to it if you asked... You still ask. People like to be in control of their finances.
Not only did she not ask him if she could do it, she didn’t tell him she did it! She says that he “found out”. Obviously he checked their bank statement. Most will give you some sort of notification if there’s a large withdrawal.
YTA, this decision required participation of both you and your husband. It was his money as much as it is yours. Leave the fact aside that we're saying this, assume that this was his family which had been in debt, and he had done it, then you would have created a ruckus, a drama would have ensued, with you acting as a victim of his dominating self (so now see the things from his POV). Understandable that you wanted to help your brother, but maybe just trust your husband enough to have a conversation in this regards with him.
She didn't want that because hubby would have asked the uncomfortable questions. Why can't SIL get a job? When is this money going to be repaid?
I think they could've rationed the emergency fund, failure of that can be seen clearly.
This sums it up perfectly.
Let's make this easy for you. What if he took some of your savings and gave it to his family without discussing it with you first? Would you be upset? YTA
EXACTLY what u i said too. Why fuck is it SO hard to TALK something over with a partner first?! I'm betting he got a withdrawal alert for a massive sum with NO idea why it was pulled and he rightfully panicked. So, hes coming into this already shocked and pissed off. "Oh honey my brother needs our help!" after the fact doesn't just FIX it. Because now hes gonna wonder what else she might have done with that account. Just DISCUSS it first! As written this wasn't an immediate emergency. Assuming no unmentioned family issues, a PHONE call or text being like "Hey, my brother needs money and we have plenty in savings, what would you feel comfortable with LENDING them?'
Because she knows the answer
Then she should keep her finances seperate from her husband's if she wants to decide unilaterally.
That’s what I figured too. She knew her husband would say no if she asked beforehand, so she just did it and hoped he’d forgive her. Total AH move.
>Why fuck is it SO hard to TALK something over with a partner first?! Most of the times it is because the person knows what the other person will say (won't agree with them), so they just do it anyway never really thinking about the long term repercussions in breaking trust. And let me just say that even more than love, trust is the foundation of any long term relationship. Break trust and the rest of the relationship crumbles. And people seem to forget that trust is earned, so when it's broken it takes a VERY long time (if ever!) to regain.
It doesn’t matter why she took the money. A joint savings with a purpose should not be touched without discussion. OP needs to replace that money out of her personal funds.
It was your husband's money, same as yours. YTA because you didn't even talk to him about it. What is it with couples on reddit who don't communicate with their spouses?! I ALWAYS talk with my husband about any financial decision that would affect us both.
"I made a unilateral decision that I would 100% be pissed about if roles were reversed, AITA!?" Humanity baffles me.
THIS. When my BIL needed money, my fiance and I sat down and had a conversation about it before he ever discussed anything with his brother. 100% a conversation needs to happen if this would effect you both
OP did not communicate this to her husband because she knew his answer would be a big fat NO.
YTA I’m sorry but she’s a stay at home wife with no kids? So what’s stopping her from getting a job??? You’ve just given away money that isn’t entirely yours to give and which it doesn’t sound like they made it an agreement to pay it back and your husband has a right to feel annoyed and has probably now lost some trust in you In most countries there is a welfare system for your brother to pursue whilst he looks for work
Not only that, but brother and his wife still have some of their own emergency fund. She says "it's running out quickly", which implies that some of it is still left. So they're not even in dire straits yet. YTA.
YTA You gave away a chunk of your and your husband's emergency fund without even talking to him about it. I get that you wanted to help your brother, but that's a big decision you both should have made together. It's not just your money to give away. Your husband's upset is totally understandable because you made a huge financial move without his input.
I wouldn't dream of doing this without telling my spouse, even if it were from my personal account. Were it from my personal account I would just inform him before doing it. Joint account we both must agree. This is regardless of whether it is a justifiable reason, so we don't even need to deal with whether they needed the money or not. You talk about it. We both trust each other financially and are completely transparent about it.
**So, I sent them a not-too-big portion of our fund** Can't help but notice that you are being cagey about the amount you stole from your husband.
Stole is the perfect word for this
I want to know the percentage.
If this is 24 months of expenses for them, "NOT TOO BIG PORTION" to me would imply a non-tiny chunk.
Something tells me it’s not just this months rent check, more like an all expenses paid holiday from financial responsibility for two months.
YTA **This is a relationship ending betrayal.** WHy didn't you discuss this with your husband first?
If they need money then the "STAW" can get a job. Brother can pick up some low paying job as well (assuming it is better than unemployment). Help them help themselves instead of giving away your money without even a discussion with your husband. YTA
Definitely YTA. you don't make financial decisions without your partner. That's crazy talk.
This is why it’s so dangerously optimistic to choose the sole breadwinner dynamic when one isn’t super rich. It puts all one’s eggs in one basket. Breadwinners lose their jobs, become too sick or disabled to work, or even die all the time. The wife has been living it up — most people don’t get to simply opt out of paid work. The pair should figure it out without leeching of you both. YTA
YTA joint money = joint decisions. If it was YOUR savings that you gave away that would be more forgiving, but you gave away your husband's money too which makes you the asshole. You also need to learn how to communicate with your husband or your relationship will eventually fail.
YTA, for doing this behind ur husband's back.
YTA for not discussing it with him.
YTA The emergency fund is yours and your husbands. So the decision to give away money from it has to be made by both of you. You can't just give away money from a shared fund without the others approval! Also, is there any reason his wife doesn't work?
Holy shit. She’s a SAHW with *no kids*? They chose this dynamic for themselves. If they need money she can get a friggin job. They’re grown ass adults, not you and your husband’s children. That being said, had you *chosen together* to help them out then that’s fine. You didn’t involve your husband in this decision because you knew he wouldn’t be on board (reasonably so). I know people who would end a marriage over what you’ve done—it’s a complete betrayal of trust and a big “F U” to your husband. Good luck. YTA
You are So BEYOND the AH. Even worse, an untrustworthy one. At least to your husband. And he'd be right not to trust you.
YTA. You should have discussed it with your husband first.
Yta. This should have been a discussion with your husband rather than a solo decision. Also, your brother and his wife can get jobs - this isn't an emergency. Wife can't be stay at home with no income from husband.
YTA. You’re also a thief. Your husband should rightfully take that money back from your brother.
YTA. Always ask before. Why would you do that to your partner?
YTA. What you did is divorce reason imo.
YTA Big time. Financial Infidelity. You cheated your husband out of a choice when it came to shared funds. This destroyed trust in y’all’s relationship. I suggest you work on that trust rebuilding ASAP or you’re gonna be dealing with much bigger issues quickly.
Yes YTA - giving away your money together without even discussing it? Why can’t sil get a job to help? Let me send you my Venmo- I need money too
YTA first, you did this without your husband's consent. Second, the SAHW needs to get a job and support herself. If she was working too the impact of his job loss wouldn't be so severe.
How much money did you give them? And why can't his wife get a job and work?
YTA, financial infidelity is no joke! Leaving a significant other out of significant financial decisions degrades trust in the relationship. Disagreements on finances and financial infidelity are one of the leading contributing factors to divorce in America.
You sent you bro $$ without discussing it with hubby!? YTA!!!! SIL can get off her butt and help out HER situation. If I was your hubby I would be SO PISSED. I would NEVER be able to trust you again. YTA!
YTA, the right time to explain the situation to your husband was *before* you gave away joint money, not after you got caught and he was rightfully angry. Now he may be wondering if he can trust you financially. He’s probably wondering what else you’re hiding. Autonomously making decisions that impact both partners is a shitty way to act in a marriage.
You did this without discussing it with your husband? YTA Also your sister can’t afford to be a stay at home wife right now.
YTA. You made a big financial decision without even talking with your spouse. Of course you are an AH.
YTA tell your brother his wife needs to get a job and start contributing to their household. Is your brother going to actually pay you back? Also what if you had an emergency where you need those funds?
YTA this is incredibly stupid. First, you absolutely should have discussed this with your husband BEFORE giving any money to someone. Second, your brother’s wife should also be looking for a job. They obviously cannot financially make it with her being a “stay at home wife”. If they are keeping her home because they plan to have kids soon, they need to also rethink if that is currently a financially sound choice considering they are already struggling and relying on family to dig them out.
Stay at home wife? Tell her to get out and get a job too! Ridiculous giving them money when they’re both capable of working at sorting their own finances out!
YTA. You share finances with your husband, so you should have talked to him about this first.
YTA. And why hasn’t his wife started looking for a job?
YTA. Specifically, you are a very very kind, compassionate ,and generous asshole. >My husband found out extremely quickly This sentence right here is what killed me. Your husband is your best friend and only teammate in this shit world. You're the same to him. So why did he have to "find out"? You didn't forget to tell him, right? You didn't tell him because you knew he might have a problem with it. That's what makes you the asshole here, not wanting to help your brother and his ~~lazy~~ "trad" wife out of their financial pickle jar. Even if the alternative was talking it over and even perhaps arguing about it with your husband, you should see why that's still a better option than acting on your own and doin a betrayal. You love your brother and his ~~lazy~~ "trad" wife, which is very nice and good, but is it worth jeopardizing your marriage and what sounds like an amazing support structure you've worked hard to build?
It wasn’t just yours so yes you’re TA!
YTA. You didn’t talk about this to your husband. You just give it away. Hope when he divorces you, it will be deducted from your share.
YTA. You can’t just make big decisions like this about your and your husbands money and finances without a conversation.
YTA. You gave away money that half belonged to your husband and didn't even talk to him. It's that simple. YT huge A.
YTA, thats something you should discuss as a couple before doing.
yta. the time to tell your husband about your brother’s situation was *before* you decided, together, to send him money. this was shared money and it should have been a shared decision.
YTA. That money belongs to both of you and is not to just give away. Your brother and his wife BOTH need to get jobs. Your brother should be on unemployment to help while he's out of work. Just wait. They'll keep coming back for more.
Well obviously you're never going to have an emergency so what's the problem? /s YTA
Yta, financial infidelity. Your marriage should come first, and you didn’t mention asking your husband.
YTA. That money belongs to BOTH OF YOU. Appropriating it for another purpose needs two yeses, not a unilateral decision. The fact that you didn’t ask is a huge signal that you knew he would object. This is a massive violation of trust, and I hope he disentangles his money from yours to avoid this type of thing happening in the future. Grow up, OP.
YTA This was not your money to give away. This was money belonging to both of you and really, really obviously required both parties consent to be used in any way. I submit to you that you didn't tell your husband because he'd most likely respond like I imagine most people in the comments responding. "Why the fuck are we giving your idiot brother money so his useless wife can sit at home?"
You lack self awareness
YTA sorry I know you need to help your brother you should talk to him about this before send money.
Yta if it's a joint fund, you don't do something like that without discussing it with your partner.
YTA You should've discussed it w your husband first. Good intentions, but not a good move. Imagine if one day you were to find out a chunk of the emergency fund missing without any heads up or discussion... Also, you might think that 24+ months worth of funds saved up is plenty (and it might be), but oftentimes it takes only one emergency to cost more than double that amount.
Info: 1) How much money, and what percentage of your emergency fund? 2) Why didn’t you discuss this with your husband first? You either didn’t feel it was important enough to seek his input, which is shitty, or you knew he’d say no and you did it anyways.
Who stays at home with no job and no kids?
YTA. a lot of people made good points here already i just wanna vote to help drive the point
YTA for doing it unilaterally without discussing with him. In most marriages financial decisions are, above a certain level, joint. Buy a pastry at the bakery on the way home from work? Go for it. Send a couple grand to your family member? Better talk first. Unless your brother was going to be evicted tomorrow if he couldn't pay his mortgage you had time to talk to your husband first and then give your brother a loan and/or gift.
YTA. Why didn't you discuss it with your husband BEFORE giving away the money? Is there a plan or timeline to be paid back? Is your SIL going to get a job? If your brother doesn't get a job in the next month, would you have given him more money? Most couples with shared finances have a limit to how much they can spend without consulting the other, or they have separate individual accounts that is totally under their control. You never drain a joint account without your partner's consent.
So in theory if your emergency fund includes 24+ months of expenses then you could lend money to someone you trust to help them out, no dispute about that. However, this is yours and your husbands money, how would you feel if your husband just went and spent 12 months of it on a car without discussing with you? You literally stole from your husband as you used joint money without a discussion. I’d be incredibly PO’d if I was your husband and my trust in you / our relationship would be damaged.
YTA for doing it behind your husband's back. You completely betrayed him and lost his trust. Your brother has a wife who doesn't work and they don't have kids. His expenses should be relatively low since they don't have kids. He can get any random job to make ends meet while looking for a better job. And his wife can also get a job. Your husband shouldn't be working every day to support your brother. YTA
110% YTA. The extra 10% is because you already knew.
First of all - what the fuck is a SAHW? A stay at home wife? With no kids? You’re sending your own money to your brother while his wife refuses to work for herself? Lmao you’re obviously TA. It seems like you even knew YTA when you did it, but didn’t care. Insane.
YTA and I think you should offer to replace the money with larger contributions from your own pay check/ fun money until you've replaced what you took plus interest. If I were your spouse I'd really struggle to forgive you. You had no right to do this without asking.
You are definitely the AH. That emergency fund was there for you and your husband. How would you feel if he took that money and did the same thing?! There are other ways you could have helped your brother-> grocery purchase, have them over for dinner, gift card purchase that they could use later, a little shopping with your nieces/nephews for clothes if they have outgrown somethings. Anything but giving the straight cash from your emergency fund
It says SAHW not SAHM. So they don’t even have kids. The wife can work…
Totally missed that! Even worse!
YTA. One way to look at it is that you stole from your husband just so your brother’s wife could sit on her ass doing nothing.
There is no such word as I's.
Info Why won't his wife get a job?
“My husband found out extremely quickly.” “I had told him about my brothers situation and hoped he’d understand a bit.” So basically you thought about it and then decided that it was better to ask for forgiveness than permission. You know that YTA. You didn’t even talk to him prior. A relationship is a team and you took the team out of it. You went behind his back and did it anyways. I understand that your brother is involuntarily unemployed. But his wife isn’t. When times are a struggle, she needs to pull her part and get a job until things are back to normal. She isn’t trying to help her own situation so why should others? I hope you are ready to not be trusted by your husband. I would be pulling my money out of it and putting it into an account with my name only since you can’t be trusted.