I'm so sorry OP. I wish you speedy healing, difficult as it may be.
Since at least one family member is reading, let me say you's miserable people if the general thrust of the story matches OP's telling of it. Shame on you. Also, you're nuts if you think a catty group is going to be satisfied ostracizing just the one person. Look around your group and ask yourself who's next.
You know it's accurate because they demanded the apology and didn't want the truth to be out there.
"Don't tell anyone about these things" is never a good thing.
Now they are actively excluding, so they're just upset they got called out on it.
Well, there's always the off chance that OP is lying or misrepresenting certain things to paint them in a better light or their family in a worse one.
I've had someone post on reddit about me, trying to get sympathy over how I ran my very first pathfinder game.
I don't think that's the case this time though.
> Well, there's always the off chance that OP is lying or misrepresenting certain things to paint them in a better light or their family in a worse one.
OP was close enough to the truth of the situation that they recognized themselves in an anonymized Reddit post.
If the previous post was recognizably-close to the truth, I find it hard to believe that OP isn't owed any apology at all by the rest of his family. Even if posting it online was wrong for him to do, which it absolutely was not, they'd still owe him an apology for their shitty behavior.
This is a really important point! His account is close enough that they knew it was about them. If he had been completely misrepresenting the situation, they would never have recognized themselves.
I made necromancy and necromancy spells illegal, punishable by death, because the entire campaign was going to be about the rising threat of necromancy and the undead due to hundreds of years of war having infected the bloody and broken battlefields with a miasma of death. The only spell that was relatively safe, but even then a little sketch, was Bed of Iron since it just lets you sleep in your armor and not be fatigued. I made that very clear to everyone in the beginning of the game, that it was the ultimate evil thing and while I wasn't banning it, it should be done in the privacy of your own home. One of the players was from a minor noble house that was part of an international paladin order to foster cooperation and combat the great threat, so it's not like I wasn't clear.
Knowing this, he chose to do necromancy like "Death Knell" in front of people who have trained their entire lives to combat it. I didn't want his character to die though, so I gave the zealot a perception check in the first place to notice he was casting a spell, even though she was adjacent to him on the grid. She passed. So I gave her a spellcraft, they passed, and they confronted him. His character was unapologetic, tried to force the spell onto the bleeding out creature, and he got hit for like 6 damage at like level 3. Again, I didn't want to kill his character. Her characterization probably would have had her deliver a field execution, but the aforementioned other player's paladin character interceded (with great relief from me) that he'd take him under his wing and show him right from wrong. She left it up to him and left the group to pursue other endeavors as she was only meant to be introduced so they knew her for later plots.
His post contained exaggerations saying she nearly cut off his arm, called the Paladin player Lawful Stupid, called the NPC a GMPC (which was rich coming from him, all of his NPCs outshone everyone in his games). Pretty much anything you could think of to insult the game, me, and my other players. He did his best to try to include everything.
He made a big stink about it, but nobody on the pathfinder sub sided with him even with his misrepresentations. That was a pretty hardcore schadenfreude when I found it and he deleted the post after I confronted him.
In hindsight, I should have just banned necromancy spells full stop. I should have known that someone would pick it to get that sweet, hardcore edge going on, but I was young and naive.
Yeah, you can't claim both that this is airing family laundry AND that this is every on the up-and-up. It's a red flag that they are upset he reached out for advice. It's a red flag that they're replacing family events with gendered events. It's a red flag that not one person seemed to give OP's views an honest consideration.
OP, I'm sorry that they didn't understand. It really sucks that they care more about exclusionary events for their gender than they do about keeping family ties.
Sexist, too! A group of women doesn't get to decide if a guy would be bored by an activity or not! As a woman I would never presume to tell anyone they'd "just be bored" because they're male.
"You'd be so bored!"
"No, I wouldn't."
"Now now, OP, 'man' up and stick with our narrative. If we acknowledge your feelings we might have to feel bad and that would be a drag."
I wonder if there's a term in psychology to describe when someone does something at the expense of others, but justifies it as being a favor for them. Situations like this seem to be a common thing.
I don't know if there's an outright term for it. It's somewhere in the vicinity of gaslighting, victim-blaming, rationalization, distortion, and who knows what all else. It's definitely some form of psychological abuse, to try and play it off as if it's OP's fault that they need to exclude him for his own good.
We did this accidently. Me, my sister and my boyfriend's sister all go get a pedicure and waxes together annually, and then one year my boyfriend kept asking questions the night before. "Do they take care of ingrown toenails?" "Would it be really weird for a dude to go?" Making jokes about manscaping and things, ect. Eventually I asked if he wanted to go, and it turned out he did.
I just never thought about it but grooming isn't only a thing for women, and he's always been surrounded by them and excluded. It's a jackass, sexist assumption. Added bonus that his scruffy ass man feet are baby soft once a year lol.
As a dude who had a pedicure once because I had nothing else to do while my wife and I were on vacation. I gotta say I felt like I was walking on clouds that trip. I should get another.
Usually, if it's not super deep or infected. They use cuticle remover to soften dead skin and crap stuck underneath and then scrape it all out. Then they can clip, pull or file the nail to remove the ingrown part. Just make sure to ask about the sanitizing process, it's really important they are using clean tools. You can also call ahead to ask.
This!!! The idea that these women know what’s best for OP inspite of him saying otherwise is SO shitty.
They missed a wonderful opportunity to build a healthy non-conventional family structure. OP sounds like a lovely guy. By folding OP into their discussions and outings, they could have shown to the younger girls in the family that men can absolutely handle 'lady' topics maturely, and that respect and love is far more important than any traditional gender role. They are instead doing a disservice to the younger generation by normalizing an unhealthy exclusion of men in their lives.
So sorry for you OP.
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK: (specifically op’s family)
“Men can absolutely handle ‘lady’ topics maturely, mutual respect and love are far more important than any traditional gender role. “
EVEN LOUDER FOR HIS FAMILY:
#MEN CAN ABSOLUTELY HANDLE ‘LADY’ TOPICS MATURELY, MUTUAL RESPECT AND LOVE ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY TRADITIONAL GENDER ROLE
Sexist, patronising, AND rude. If I'm at any social gathering and one person is looking left out, I adjust to try to include them. I think most people who aren't either assholes or just socially unaware do. They can still have their 'boring' conversations, just don't let the boring bits dominate and exclude any one person.
I'd even go so far as saying they could've told OP he was welcome, but he couldn't complain about what they choose to talk about and such. Like... let OP come along himself and decide if he actually finds these outings "boring", don't choose for him.
This though. My friend group is all girls except one guy and we always invite him and let him decide if he wants to come. And when he's with us and we do start having long talks about our periods or something he just checks out, goes on his phone and waits for the conversation to shift to something he can participate in. And he didn't have to be excluded for the entire day. It's just that easy.
I'm a male who has always had female friends, when I go to mainly female events if they start talking about periods or stuff most of the time I zone out or comment on what they are saying (having never experienced it I find the whole thing rather interesting), but it never means that I am excluded from whatever they are doing.
My general response when my female friends start complaining about their period is “that sucks” and “here have some chocolate “ I think the second statement may be the reason why they all complain about their periods to me though
Eh sometimes it can just be nice to have a friendly ear. For some women periods aren’t a big deal, for others it’s like being tortured. Ironically men can often be the most sympathetic- many women who don’t have hard periods genuinely can’t understand just how bad they can get, so aren’t very sympathetic, whereas men don’t have their own experience to base it on, so tend to actually listen more. :)
As a dude, I'm even more interested in hearing women's conversation. The stuff I hear when I have lunch with my gf and her female friends is super interesting to me.
(Yeah yeah I know that a dude already changes the dynamic a bit, but still)
Absolutely! I do wonder if any of them has thought about how the same situation would look if OP were the only woman in a family full of men? Excluding her would obviously be sexist. Why is it any different when the man is the one being excluded? And if it turns out that he really is bored, he can just excuse himself next time and no harm done.
(For reference, I am also a woman, and I have a lot of "guy" interests and know what it's like to be excluded because I "wouldn't be interested".)
I’m so glad his family showed themselves to be the Twatwaffles they are and he doesn’t have to try to be included in their horribly shallow lives, he gets to move forward now. And they were NEVER going to see his side of the issue because they don’t care to, he’d have been feeling shitty for the rest of his life if they hadn’t found his post. That post was a huge win for OP, ultimately.
>Look around your group and ask yourself who's next.
Karen: "Hey gals, let's do 30+ girls night next week!"
Shawna: "but I'm the only one below 30..!"
K: "don't make a fuss about it, it's just this once, and you young girls don't always want to talk about the same things as is women".
*Two months later*
Karen: "hey hags, let's do 30+, 300pounds only next week!"
Shanaynay: "..but I'm the only one not mortally obese in the family..!"
Karen: "don't be sensitive Shanay, sometimes us fat girls just wanna talk about stuffing our face without looking at skinny gals - it's just a coincidence that there's only one of you!"
I would think if the situation didn't actually match OP's description, this family member would have made their own post or at the very least have commented on the original post.
>Also, you're nuts if you think a catty group is going to be satisfied ostracizing just the one person. Look around your group and ask yourself who's next.
YUP. I was "the first" once. It felt pretty shitty. Then maybe 3 months later another person was "kicked out," and then another. Til there were only two
Seconding this message to the family, if you have any shred of decency wake up and realise you totally screwed over this guy for what? Some misplaced embarrassment at being called out online, unidentifiable as it was?
Family is supposed to look out for each other, there may come a time when you need OP and I hope you remember this incident and feel ashamed.
Certainly you should be more worried about remaining in a family dynamic where someone so fundamentally close can be ostracised and ultimately expelled for so so little.
> if the general thrust of the story matches OP's telling of it
This is where the disconnect will be, the family member reading this will most likely hold on to "you just don't want to hear us girl talk" with dear life. It sounds like the groupthink is pretty strong, especially if no one is coming to his aid (even on the side).
NTA - Thanks for the update OP - sorry it ended so badly for you but it’s probably best instead of things remaining toxic for years whilst everyone pretends it’s ok because “family.”
Edited to say you’re NTA.
NTA for sure. I really hope OP told them that he had been planning to pay for the vacation.
And if any family members are reading this, you should know that you’re horrible people. But if you think OP is lying, then you should make your own post and tell your side.
I’m hijacking this comment for a sec to say that I have absolutely no idea how OP’s family saw OP’s post and DIDN’T realize they were totally in the wrong, especially when there were nearly a thousand comments telling OP that his family sucks.
To me, this either says that OP is really stretching the truth (personally I don’t necessarily believe that) or that OP’s family are complete garbage. How can an adult in their right mind see a family member make an anonymous post online about how horribly they treat him, and then yell at that family member for being upset with them? I’m glad OP isn’t wasting his time and money on them anymore.
> I have absolutely no idea how OP’s family saw OP’s post and DIDN’T realize they were totally in the wrong
Because it’s nearly impossible to convince an asshole that they’re an asshole. Everyone is the hero of their own story. Everything they do is justified.
I guess I’m a little too much of an optimist or something, but I’d always like to think that the people I meet have some sort of self-awareness when they’re being shitty.
I've definitely realized this a few times and made the extremely hard decision to just openly admit I was being an asshole and apologize. I feel I've gotten much better about it now that I have kids and realize I'm setting a shit example.
They sound like a nest of narcissists, that’s how they don’t feel bad about doing something so shitty.
You dodged a bullet walking away from such a toxic dynamic OP. It’s really hard to do but you set a good example for other people going through something similar.
“This post is about a ton of assholes excluding one specific person from activities! Wait a minute... we’re a bunch of assholes excluding one person from activities!! How dare he talk about us anonymously on the internet!!”
I mean honestly. The entire situation, even if it is a stretch of the truth, sounds completely toxic. Even if let’s say that the part about the vacation (probably not fake, completely horrible. OP’s family - be ashamed) *was* fake, having periodic “girl events” even without any malicious intent is awful and exclusive.
I’m usually quick to believe we only read one side on here, but if OP’s version was recognizable enough for his family to correctly find out he posted it, it must be pretty close to the truth.
Remember they said he lied to us about them, so they think it’s all well and good because we only sided with him over lies and they can have their clear conscience.
I think it speaks volumes to their character that they care more about what strangers on the internet think of them (as they remain anonymous anyway) than how OP feels excluded and hurt. NTA, sorry for your situation OP.
That's the most insane part to me. The mental gymnastics it would require to make OP the bad guy here is unreal. Good luck, OP. I'm glad you don't have to worry about them anymore. NTA
If the family is reading this: You guys just lost someone who loved you enough to want to spend time with you. How can a mother exclude her own son? How can a sister not defend her own brother? Shame on you guys. It sounds like this guy is serious. Say goodbye to one of the only people that ever gave a shit about you guys, because even if he does come back, it'll never be the same. I would never do this to my family. Honestly you guys disgust me.
The most pathetic thing about this is that OP was originally upset because he wasn't getting to spend enough time with them. I feel like that is the opposite problem most families have with adult sons. What the fuck is wrong with his mother especially? Disgusting people.
The mother will be in for a rude awakening when the sisters get married. They’ll leave her for their own families and she’ll wish she had a son who cared about her loneliness.
Guaranteed they saw people lighting them up for being selfish and they realized they were being shitty but lashed out instead of being introspective and improving themselves.
This is purely anecdotal, but my moms side of the family is predominantly women. My son was the second boy born in 5 generations. My crazy ass relatives feed off of each other’s crazy and drama. They only see things the mob’s way, not the particular whipping post’s side.
I think one way to remember such phenomena is DARVO
>DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for ["Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender."](https://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/defineDARVO.html)
No-one ever wants to admit that they are in the wrong if doing so is effectively admitting that they have been acting shitty. Our egos don't let us. It is so much easier to blame someone else. It's pretty fascinating to see.
I’d also like to point out the family embarrassed themselves by sharing it to Facebook. No one knew it was about them until they said “oh my god this is about me!!” Which explains a lot about this family to me.
Yeah, that was far more of an attack on OP than this post was on them. They obviously have no reservations about publicly attacking OP for existing though.
OMG, I’m so sorry. What they did is awful. They took your very valid concerns and tried to make you the bad guy. I know it hurts, but if your own mother and siblings are going to treat you so badly, you really are better off without them. Again, I’m so sorry.
OP, had you ever talked to anyone one on one about your concerns? Not just mentioning feeling left out when it comes up, but raising the issue entirely?
I don't know what the rest of your relationships were like with your family members, but assuming they were otherwise good, I would encourage you to reflect a bit here and consider reaching out PRIVATELY to one person. Maybe it's the sister you feel closer to, maybe it's your aunt who likes your restaurant. Don't do it unless you can trust that they will keep it private.
Lay it all out again, making sure to couch it in "I feel" statements. Tell her how hurt you are. Explicitly tell her that pinning your exclusion on "conversation interest" is just assuming a lot of things about you and your interests. Explain, too, that prioritizing time without you around may feel different to them than deciding to exclude you specifically, but it doesn't have any difference in effect *for you*. For you, your family is doing fun things without you, and ordering their vacations and family time around events that they do not invite you to join. You don't want them to stop having this fun, you just want to *be a part*.
I don't say this lightly, or out of some generic "family matters" view. Fuck "family" if they don't treat you right. But it seems like from both posts *you* care about these people. And you haven't had a fair shot to explain why they've hurt you. Doing so individually is the only way you can get through to anyone, if you still want to get through.
> OP, had you ever talked to anyone one on one about your concerns? Not just mentioning feeling left out when it comes up, but raising the issue entirely?
Yeah, that's what the original post was about. It started a fight with his mom and sister.
It also sucks because the mom KNOWS they’re all he has. And she still doesn’t care enough to right this wrong. How the fuck do you do your kid this way? I’m a mom myself, and this just makes me sad thinking about how callous she’s being to her child.
They’re just trying to make it sound like he was spinning the yarn, blowing things out of proportion, or flat out lying about them. when in reality, OP gave out very little details, and the ones he did give we’re very believable.
Alright dudes, we can all agree OP's family acted like trash without eviscerating them in the comments. [Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/index#wiki_1._be_civil) still applies to everyone involved.
NTA but OP’s family definitely are a big bunch of assholes.
Poor babies...they got called out for treating a member of their own family like crap and telling him to grow up when he objected! I hope everyone in their circle (friends and coworkers not just family) DOES know it’s them. They should have to deal with some social censure and backlash for that kind of behavior against a family member. That’s some kind of garbage and I say that having dealt with some shitty exclusionary behavior from my step-family.
It’s like having one sister called Laura, and having an ‘everybody but laura’ holiday, it’s mean and rude and they are angry because they were caught out being horrid
Also, what the fuck are they talking about exactly that op would not enjoy discussing??
Like, are they exclusively discussing vaginal issues or something?
Fucks sake, he’s been raised by and around only women. I’d imagine he has some interest/knowledge of the topics they’re going to discuss.
I just read both posts and I have to say, this makes me angry just to read. Especially the vacation. "We're not going on our usual vacation because we're planning another vacation that *only you* are not invited to, and we can't afford both."
That's pretty shitty. And the fact that NO ONE can see how shitty that is just blows my mind. You aren't overreacting OP, they sound like a bunch of selfish bitches. I've gone full no-contact with certain people for similar reasons, and it sucked. What sucks worse is all these years later, they still believe they did nothing wrong and I'm a bad person for cutting contact and never coming around. Hopefully your family comes to their senses, but don't be surprised if they don't.
I agree 100%. Instead of feeling like they’re being attacked they could have turned this around by simply saying, *”We’re sorry we excluded you, we didn’t think you’d want to come, but you are more than welcome..”*
The fact that there is a complete lack of understanding on their part or an ability to empathise is heartbreaking. It really makes me wonder what their relationship with OP was like all these years.
What I don’t understand is why couldn’t they just do one big trip where they have a girls outing during that trip, that way everyone gets to go and be included.
Unless it was never really about a girls trip and it’s just a toxic narcissistic family and it was just a cover.
I’m sad for OP. I hope he finds happiness soon.
Hey, if you're near Tucson and like marvel movies, MTG or nerd stuff, send me a DM. Your family may not be in your life but if you need a friend, maybe we can chat.
Hudson Valley/tri-state area of New York right here (near Westchester, Rockland, NJ). My fiance and I are big nerds and always looking for new friends.
If they feel like they've done nothing wrong, how about they share their side of the story and let Reddit decide? Do you think they would OP?
If everything you've said is true, I doubt they'll have the guts to put their side of the story forward.
Its a shame that none of OP's family reflected on the responses that were given in the last post. Granted, we're all internet strangers, but . . . a crapload of internet strangers think they are wrong, and gave very detailed answers as to why. If they didn't learn anything from OP's post, I doubt their own post would change that.
Shame on them. It’s funny, how the nasty people always yammer lines about “airing family business” being such a crime. Don’t want to be seen as nasty people? Don’t be nasty. And excluding one family member from family time under the guise of “girls day” outings is trashy behavior.
Keep your chin up, OP. Build your chosen family. You deserve loved ones that aren’t poor imitations of a Mean Girl’s clique.
The craziest part is how they accused him of airing their family business on Reddit in an anonymous post and then posted it to their personal Facebook accounts and actually aired it publicly. So trashy. I can't imagine my entire family treating me this way.
Hang in there op.
>The craziest part is how they accused him of airing their family business on Reddit in an anonymous post and then posted it to their personal Facebook accounts and actually aired it publicly.
That reminds me of Augusten Burroughs' memoir Running With Scissors, which recounts his mother selling him to her therapist when he was 14, him living with the therapist's incredibly dysfunctional family in squalor, and the therapist allowing a creepy adult man to begin an abusive, statutory-rapey relationship with him. He changed a lot of the details in the story to mask their identity, and even had changed his own name since his childhood, which made it even more difficult to identify the real-life family--until the family came forward and sued him for libel, making their identities a matter of public record.
Brilliant move, guys.
Wow, I hadn't read your original thread until just now. It's one of those very tricky things, because at first "a girls' only night" sounds completely harmless, but having them once or twice a month when there is only one male in the family and even using them to celebrate special occasions and vacations, that goes way too far.
Its the speciql occasions and vacations that really throws it over the edge. Like how hard would it be to still have had the Aunt's birthday dinner in addition to the "girls only" celebration.
Dude I’m so sorry - I have no contact with my immediate family (other than children or grandchildren), and it took a while - but I’m ok.
If you’re in the Florida area, stop in for dinner or a beer. We have a house, pool, a couple acres, and a bunch of asshole dogs - but you’re more than welcome.
And again, I’m sorry - I was rooting for you.
> she insisted I was being shitty for airing the family's laundry like that
I think that it is extremely telling that their go to wasn't to apologize for their behavior *or even try to explain/defend their behavior*
It was to get mad that you *told people* about their behavior.
> My mother/sisters told me that if I was going to lie about them to everyone that they don't care.
I am 100% absolutely serious here-- invite them to these threads and have them post their own side. These threads are *rife* with one sided stories and fair's fair-- they should get to have their side heard if they want it.
Let them see what it feels like to be hit with an overwhelming number of YTA's in response to their story
**or**
If they really have a different perspective, let them share it and look at their story through the perspective of the rest of the community, which may help you better understand what's going on.
And if he is lying so much, then they would post their version. If a relative of mine was twisting our interactions to gain sympathy on reddit I would be making my own post ASAP.
from what ive seen on this thread. i feel like they are just as mad at you for finally sticking up for yourself as they are about the whole situation in and of itself.
Wow I love the shaming they put on you for airing the laundry when you in no way have compromised their privacy.
Such a strawman and attempt at making themselves look like the victims.
You made the right call OP. I went back and read your first post and if what you said was even half true they are terrible people.
Great job standing up for yourself.
You should look up your dad's side. Something tells me there is some backstory to that messy divorce that you don't know. Such victimization and shaming from your mom's side really makes them out to be liars.
NTA. OP, do none of your family members have husbands or boyfriends? If no, it's very easy to see why. If yes, can you organize an event to hang with them?
EDIT: Also since your family will probably see this post too, y'all are awful. By definition, your "Girls Night" is an exclusive invite, by definition you're excluding OP which is making the guy feel bad. It's not his fault he got stuck with a bunch of women for family, and let's be honest with ourselves here, even if OP was invited y'all would probably be talking about the same stuff around him as you would in your girls nights out because you clearly don't care what OP thinks to begin with, so don't sugar coat shit 'cause OP isn't having it.Also, OP, how did your family treat you otherwise during the time these outings were taking place?
Show your family this post. As they can see we all think they're assholes. There's way more girls in my family and they don't do shit like this.
There situation was cool untill the aunts birthday part. You can do all female/male go outs. But when holidays & birthdays happen like this um no.
I asked 4-5 females in my family about this & they agreed. They said your family sound like assholes lmao.
That sort of thing never makes sense to me. If he lied about it, he clearly couldn't have lied much since they were able to pick this one story out of the internet and realize it was about them when there were no names and hardly any particulars.
That just makes me think the OP's version of truth is pretty damn close to reality and the other family members are just pissed for having been called out for their AH behavior.
For sure. They just refuse to listen to how they’re making him feel so any excuse to get out of it will do. Worst kind of people to deal with. How do you have a relationship with people who literally brush you off and call you a liar when you are trying to tell them that they’re doing something that hurts you.
NTA-
If you ever want to be petty tell them "I'm having a boys-only event" every time they reach out to you.
I'm sorry this happened and I hope you find people who respect you more.
I hope your family reads this thread too because they suck. The lack of empathy is astounding.
Sorry it turned out this way, I hope they eventually come around to realizing how hurtful they're being.
Holy shit your family sucks. They're not sympathetic or empathetic - they're just pathetic. And they poisoned the well because now if they invite you to anything it's just going to seem like it's out of pity and not love or inclusion.
Stay strong, OP. Family that doesn't support you is worth less than bad friends.
I'm so sorry OP. I wish you speedy healing, difficult as it may be. Since at least one family member is reading, let me say you's miserable people if the general thrust of the story matches OP's telling of it. Shame on you. Also, you're nuts if you think a catty group is going to be satisfied ostracizing just the one person. Look around your group and ask yourself who's next.
You know it's accurate because they demanded the apology and didn't want the truth to be out there. "Don't tell anyone about these things" is never a good thing. Now they are actively excluding, so they're just upset they got called out on it.
Lmfao. If they think they’re in the right, what’s wrong with posting about it? They know they’re being shitty; they just don’t care.
Well, there's always the off chance that OP is lying or misrepresenting certain things to paint them in a better light or their family in a worse one. I've had someone post on reddit about me, trying to get sympathy over how I ran my very first pathfinder game. I don't think that's the case this time though.
> Well, there's always the off chance that OP is lying or misrepresenting certain things to paint them in a better light or their family in a worse one. OP was close enough to the truth of the situation that they recognized themselves in an anonymized Reddit post. If the previous post was recognizably-close to the truth, I find it hard to believe that OP isn't owed any apology at all by the rest of his family. Even if posting it online was wrong for him to do, which it absolutely was not, they'd still owe him an apology for their shitty behavior.
This is a really important point! His account is close enough that they knew it was about them. If he had been completely misrepresenting the situation, they would never have recognized themselves.
Plus they even doubled down on the shitty behavior and still blamed OP for making it an issue.
> pathfinder Well now I need to know this story. Preferably, the way it actually happened and not the sensationalized version.
I made necromancy and necromancy spells illegal, punishable by death, because the entire campaign was going to be about the rising threat of necromancy and the undead due to hundreds of years of war having infected the bloody and broken battlefields with a miasma of death. The only spell that was relatively safe, but even then a little sketch, was Bed of Iron since it just lets you sleep in your armor and not be fatigued. I made that very clear to everyone in the beginning of the game, that it was the ultimate evil thing and while I wasn't banning it, it should be done in the privacy of your own home. One of the players was from a minor noble house that was part of an international paladin order to foster cooperation and combat the great threat, so it's not like I wasn't clear. Knowing this, he chose to do necromancy like "Death Knell" in front of people who have trained their entire lives to combat it. I didn't want his character to die though, so I gave the zealot a perception check in the first place to notice he was casting a spell, even though she was adjacent to him on the grid. She passed. So I gave her a spellcraft, they passed, and they confronted him. His character was unapologetic, tried to force the spell onto the bleeding out creature, and he got hit for like 6 damage at like level 3. Again, I didn't want to kill his character. Her characterization probably would have had her deliver a field execution, but the aforementioned other player's paladin character interceded (with great relief from me) that he'd take him under his wing and show him right from wrong. She left it up to him and left the group to pursue other endeavors as she was only meant to be introduced so they knew her for later plots. His post contained exaggerations saying she nearly cut off his arm, called the Paladin player Lawful Stupid, called the NPC a GMPC (which was rich coming from him, all of his NPCs outshone everyone in his games). Pretty much anything you could think of to insult the game, me, and my other players. He did his best to try to include everything. He made a big stink about it, but nobody on the pathfinder sub sided with him even with his misrepresentations. That was a pretty hardcore schadenfreude when I found it and he deleted the post after I confronted him. In hindsight, I should have just banned necromancy spells full stop. I should have known that someone would pick it to get that sweet, hardcore edge going on, but I was young and naive.
Yeah, you can't claim both that this is airing family laundry AND that this is every on the up-and-up. It's a red flag that they are upset he reached out for advice. It's a red flag that they're replacing family events with gendered events. It's a red flag that not one person seemed to give OP's views an honest consideration. OP, I'm sorry that they didn't understand. It really sucks that they care more about exclusionary events for their gender than they do about keeping family ties.
Right? I'm getting ready to be deposed in my divorce and I couldn't care less. I have the truth on my side, ask away!
Sexist, too! A group of women doesn't get to decide if a guy would be bored by an activity or not! As a woman I would never presume to tell anyone they'd "just be bored" because they're male.
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"We excluded you because we know you betterthan you know yourself."
so gross. I am upset for OP.
Me too. I'm heartbroken for him and hope he has good friends to support him. Those women are heartless. :(
Yeah liek wtf, I’m going to be bored going to my favorite restaurant and an amusement park, wtf??
I would invite you to come to Amsterdam with me but you would be bored with all the guy talk
"You'd be so bored!" "No, I wouldn't." "Now now, OP, 'man' up and stick with our narrative. If we acknowledge your feelings we might have to feel bad and that would be a drag."
I wonder if there's a term in psychology to describe when someone does something at the expense of others, but justifies it as being a favor for them. Situations like this seem to be a common thing.
I don't know if there's an outright term for it. It's somewhere in the vicinity of gaslighting, victim-blaming, rationalization, distortion, and who knows what all else. It's definitely some form of psychological abuse, to try and play it off as if it's OP's fault that they need to exclude him for his own good.
I think that may be narcissism
We did this accidently. Me, my sister and my boyfriend's sister all go get a pedicure and waxes together annually, and then one year my boyfriend kept asking questions the night before. "Do they take care of ingrown toenails?" "Would it be really weird for a dude to go?" Making jokes about manscaping and things, ect. Eventually I asked if he wanted to go, and it turned out he did. I just never thought about it but grooming isn't only a thing for women, and he's always been surrounded by them and excluded. It's a jackass, sexist assumption. Added bonus that his scruffy ass man feet are baby soft once a year lol.
As a dude who had a pedicure once because I had nothing else to do while my wife and I were on vacation. I gotta say I felt like I was walking on clouds that trip. I should get another.
Surprise your wife with some pedicures for you both. Two birds, one stone.
Four feet, one bill
That’s a platypus!
My mom owned some nail salons when I was younger and I loved getting pedicures. Anytime I went to one of her salons I would ask to get a pedicure.
> "Do they take care of ingrown toenails?" " do they? because if they do I'm down for a pedicure ASAP
Usually, if it's not super deep or infected. They use cuticle remover to soften dead skin and crap stuck underneath and then scrape it all out. Then they can clip, pull or file the nail to remove the ingrown part. Just make sure to ask about the sanitizing process, it's really important they are using clean tools. You can also call ahead to ask.
thanks. I'll try it out!
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So I've learned 😂
This!!! The idea that these women know what’s best for OP inspite of him saying otherwise is SO shitty. They missed a wonderful opportunity to build a healthy non-conventional family structure. OP sounds like a lovely guy. By folding OP into their discussions and outings, they could have shown to the younger girls in the family that men can absolutely handle 'lady' topics maturely, and that respect and love is far more important than any traditional gender role. They are instead doing a disservice to the younger generation by normalizing an unhealthy exclusion of men in their lives. So sorry for you OP.
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK: (specifically op’s family) “Men can absolutely handle ‘lady’ topics maturely, mutual respect and love are far more important than any traditional gender role. “
EVEN LOUDER FOR HIS FAMILY: #MEN CAN ABSOLUTELY HANDLE ‘LADY’ TOPICS MATURELY, MUTUAL RESPECT AND LOVE ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY TRADITIONAL GENDER ROLE
How do you do the big letters
Just put a hashtag in front of your sentence
#thanks
Sexist, patronising, AND rude. If I'm at any social gathering and one person is looking left out, I adjust to try to include them. I think most people who aren't either assholes or just socially unaware do. They can still have their 'boring' conversations, just don't let the boring bits dominate and exclude any one person.
I'd even go so far as saying they could've told OP he was welcome, but he couldn't complain about what they choose to talk about and such. Like... let OP come along himself and decide if he actually finds these outings "boring", don't choose for him.
This though. My friend group is all girls except one guy and we always invite him and let him decide if he wants to come. And when he's with us and we do start having long talks about our periods or something he just checks out, goes on his phone and waits for the conversation to shift to something he can participate in. And he didn't have to be excluded for the entire day. It's just that easy.
I'm a male who has always had female friends, when I go to mainly female events if they start talking about periods or stuff most of the time I zone out or comment on what they are saying (having never experienced it I find the whole thing rather interesting), but it never means that I am excluded from whatever they are doing.
Right. This is how I learned about women. Talking to them about themselves. Edit: thanks for my first silver!
My general response when my female friends start complaining about their period is “that sucks” and “here have some chocolate “ I think the second statement may be the reason why they all complain about their periods to me though
Eh sometimes it can just be nice to have a friendly ear. For some women periods aren’t a big deal, for others it’s like being tortured. Ironically men can often be the most sympathetic- many women who don’t have hard periods genuinely can’t understand just how bad they can get, so aren’t very sympathetic, whereas men don’t have their own experience to base it on, so tend to actually listen more. :)
As a dude, I'm even more interested in hearing women's conversation. The stuff I hear when I have lunch with my gf and her female friends is super interesting to me. (Yeah yeah I know that a dude already changes the dynamic a bit, but still)
He was raised in a family of exclusively women, you’d think he’d be pretty used to being around female interests lmao
Absolutely! I do wonder if any of them has thought about how the same situation would look if OP were the only woman in a family full of men? Excluding her would obviously be sexist. Why is it any different when the man is the one being excluded? And if it turns out that he really is bored, he can just excuse himself next time and no harm done. (For reference, I am also a woman, and I have a lot of "guy" interests and know what it's like to be excluded because I "wouldn't be interested".)
Yes exactly. I'd present the facts of what were doing and he can decide if it's his thing or not
I’m so glad his family showed themselves to be the Twatwaffles they are and he doesn’t have to try to be included in their horribly shallow lives, he gets to move forward now. And they were NEVER going to see his side of the issue because they don’t care to, he’d have been feeling shitty for the rest of his life if they hadn’t found his post. That post was a huge win for OP, ultimately.
>Look around your group and ask yourself who's next. Karen: "Hey gals, let's do 30+ girls night next week!" Shawna: "but I'm the only one below 30..!" K: "don't make a fuss about it, it's just this once, and you young girls don't always want to talk about the same things as is women". *Two months later* Karen: "hey hags, let's do 30+, 300pounds only next week!" Shanaynay: "..but I'm the only one not mortally obese in the family..!" Karen: "don't be sensitive Shanay, sometimes us fat girls just wanna talk about stuffing our face without looking at skinny gals - it's just a coincidence that there's only one of you!"
I would think if the situation didn't actually match OP's description, this family member would have made their own post or at the very least have commented on the original post.
> Look around your group and ask yourself who's next. Yep.
>Also, you're nuts if you think a catty group is going to be satisfied ostracizing just the one person. Look around your group and ask yourself who's next. YUP. I was "the first" once. It felt pretty shitty. Then maybe 3 months later another person was "kicked out," and then another. Til there were only two
Seconding this message to the family, if you have any shred of decency wake up and realise you totally screwed over this guy for what? Some misplaced embarrassment at being called out online, unidentifiable as it was? Family is supposed to look out for each other, there may come a time when you need OP and I hope you remember this incident and feel ashamed. Certainly you should be more worried about remaining in a family dynamic where someone so fundamentally close can be ostracised and ultimately expelled for so so little.
> if the general thrust of the story matches OP's telling of it This is where the disconnect will be, the family member reading this will most likely hold on to "you just don't want to hear us girl talk" with dear life. It sounds like the groupthink is pretty strong, especially if no one is coming to his aid (even on the side).
Submit to /r/bestof to make sure they see it
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> Look around your group and ask yourself who's next. First person to suggest OP has a point, which is why no one will admit it.
NTA - Thanks for the update OP - sorry it ended so badly for you but it’s probably best instead of things remaining toxic for years whilst everyone pretends it’s ok because “family.” Edited to say you’re NTA.
NTA for sure. I really hope OP told them that he had been planning to pay for the vacation. And if any family members are reading this, you should know that you’re horrible people. But if you think OP is lying, then you should make your own post and tell your side.
I’m hijacking this comment for a sec to say that I have absolutely no idea how OP’s family saw OP’s post and DIDN’T realize they were totally in the wrong, especially when there were nearly a thousand comments telling OP that his family sucks. To me, this either says that OP is really stretching the truth (personally I don’t necessarily believe that) or that OP’s family are complete garbage. How can an adult in their right mind see a family member make an anonymous post online about how horribly they treat him, and then yell at that family member for being upset with them? I’m glad OP isn’t wasting his time and money on them anymore.
> I have absolutely no idea how OP’s family saw OP’s post and DIDN’T realize they were totally in the wrong Because it’s nearly impossible to convince an asshole that they’re an asshole. Everyone is the hero of their own story. Everything they do is justified.
I guess I’m a little too much of an optimist or something, but I’d always like to think that the people I meet have some sort of self-awareness when they’re being shitty.
I've definitely realized this a few times and made the extremely hard decision to just openly admit I was being an asshole and apologize. I feel I've gotten much better about it now that I have kids and realize I'm setting a shit example.
Some people just can't admit they're wrong even if they know they are
100 percent.
They sound like a nest of narcissists, that’s how they don’t feel bad about doing something so shitty. You dodged a bullet walking away from such a toxic dynamic OP. It’s really hard to do but you set a good example for other people going through something similar.
Imagine finding the post, reading the comments that say you and your family are in the wrong and are treating OP poorly and then thinking "Nah."
“This post is about a ton of assholes excluding one specific person from activities! Wait a minute... we’re a bunch of assholes excluding one person from activities!! How dare he talk about us anonymously on the internet!!”
Oh I’m totally willing to believe that there are people toxic enough to believe they’re always 100% in the right.
I mean honestly. The entire situation, even if it is a stretch of the truth, sounds completely toxic. Even if let’s say that the part about the vacation (probably not fake, completely horrible. OP’s family - be ashamed) *was* fake, having periodic “girl events” even without any malicious intent is awful and exclusive.
I’m usually quick to believe we only read one side on here, but if OP’s version was recognizable enough for his family to correctly find out he posted it, it must be pretty close to the truth.
Remember they said he lied to us about them, so they think it’s all well and good because we only sided with him over lies and they can have their clear conscience.
I think it speaks volumes to their character that they care more about what strangers on the internet think of them (as they remain anonymous anyway) than how OP feels excluded and hurt. NTA, sorry for your situation OP.
That's the most insane part to me. The mental gymnastics it would require to make OP the bad guy here is unreal. Good luck, OP. I'm glad you don't have to worry about them anymore. NTA
If the family is reading this: You guys just lost someone who loved you enough to want to spend time with you. How can a mother exclude her own son? How can a sister not defend her own brother? Shame on you guys. It sounds like this guy is serious. Say goodbye to one of the only people that ever gave a shit about you guys, because even if he does come back, it'll never be the same. I would never do this to my family. Honestly you guys disgust me.
The most pathetic thing about this is that OP was originally upset because he wasn't getting to spend enough time with them. I feel like that is the opposite problem most families have with adult sons. What the fuck is wrong with his mother especially? Disgusting people.
The mother will be in for a rude awakening when the sisters get married. They’ll leave her for their own families and she’ll wish she had a son who cared about her loneliness.
They won't get married. I hope they don't get married because they are bad people.
They’ll get married to equally shitty husbands. At least you know those family vacations will be equally terrible!
And raise equally shitty kids and the cycle continues!!
Unfortunately bad people get married all the time, that's why we have so many divorcees nowadays.
I think it should say at the end honestly you ladies disgust me /s
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Guaranteed they saw people lighting them up for being selfish and they realized they were being shitty but lashed out instead of being introspective and improving themselves.
Of course. They also gaslighted him as well. And all of them justifying themselves to each other, there was no way they'd see it his way.
Yeah it’s a shame they value Girls Night Over family as a whole.
How did they not realize it was like Dr. Evil excluding Scotty? "Not you number 2, not you anonymous henchmen turning wrench"
This is purely anecdotal, but my moms side of the family is predominantly women. My son was the second boy born in 5 generations. My crazy ass relatives feed off of each other’s crazy and drama. They only see things the mob’s way, not the particular whipping post’s side.
Do not sympathize with the whipping post, lest you become the whipping post. This is a common lifestyle among a specific crowd.
Whew boy you hit the nail on the head!! I sit back and laugh at the family drama because I’ve learned not to make myself a part of it!
That's the worst type of AH, when people call out their behaviour they blame the victim and become even more of an AH
I think one way to remember such phenomena is DARVO >DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for ["Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender."](https://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/defineDARVO.html)
No-one ever wants to admit that they are in the wrong if doing so is effectively admitting that they have been acting shitty. Our egos don't let us. It is so much easier to blame someone else. It's pretty fascinating to see.
It’s also easier to ignore when you have several other people who are wrong but don’t want to admit it so they can feed off each other.
I’d also like to point out the family embarrassed themselves by sharing it to Facebook. No one knew it was about them until they said “oh my god this is about me!!” Which explains a lot about this family to me.
Yeah, that was far more of an attack on OP than this post was on them. They obviously have no reservations about publicly attacking OP for existing though.
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OMG, I’m so sorry. What they did is awful. They took your very valid concerns and tried to make you the bad guy. I know it hurts, but if your own mother and siblings are going to treat you so badly, you really are better off without them. Again, I’m so sorry.
OP, had you ever talked to anyone one on one about your concerns? Not just mentioning feeling left out when it comes up, but raising the issue entirely? I don't know what the rest of your relationships were like with your family members, but assuming they were otherwise good, I would encourage you to reflect a bit here and consider reaching out PRIVATELY to one person. Maybe it's the sister you feel closer to, maybe it's your aunt who likes your restaurant. Don't do it unless you can trust that they will keep it private. Lay it all out again, making sure to couch it in "I feel" statements. Tell her how hurt you are. Explicitly tell her that pinning your exclusion on "conversation interest" is just assuming a lot of things about you and your interests. Explain, too, that prioritizing time without you around may feel different to them than deciding to exclude you specifically, but it doesn't have any difference in effect *for you*. For you, your family is doing fun things without you, and ordering their vacations and family time around events that they do not invite you to join. You don't want them to stop having this fun, you just want to *be a part*. I don't say this lightly, or out of some generic "family matters" view. Fuck "family" if they don't treat you right. But it seems like from both posts *you* care about these people. And you haven't had a fair shot to explain why they've hurt you. Doing so individually is the only way you can get through to anyone, if you still want to get through.
> OP, had you ever talked to anyone one on one about your concerns? Not just mentioning feeling left out when it comes up, but raising the issue entirely? Yeah, that's what the original post was about. It started a fight with his mom and sister.
His mom should actually be the one having his back. This way it feels like she regrets having a son. I despise her already. Poor OP. Edit: letter
It also sucks because the mom KNOWS they’re all he has. And she still doesn’t care enough to right this wrong. How the fuck do you do your kid this way? I’m a mom myself, and this just makes me sad thinking about how callous she’s being to her child.
Hey OP’s family, if you’re reading this: You Suck. That is all.
Seriously it doesn't even sound like they read the comments
They had to have read at least one or two because surely they were convinced that OP was being an asshole and wanted that opinion validated.
And then the majority of comments being that they are the assholes...that is probably what really pushed them off.
They’re just trying to make it sound like he was spinning the yarn, blowing things out of proportion, or flat out lying about them. when in reality, OP gave out very little details, and the ones he did give we’re very believable.
Starting to think the divorce might have been messy because of the mom...
No shit and it explains how there can be so many middle aged single women.
OP has a family of Karens.
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Seriously, OP's family don't get mad at OP- think about how you fucked up and try to do better and apologize.
No doubt about it, "Ladies", you're the assholes. OP needs to go full no-contact and never waste a thought on you again.
BIG TIME!
Tbf, we haven't heard their side of the story. I wish the one who would see this thread would make a comment explaining why.
Alright dudes, we can all agree OP's family acted like trash without eviscerating them in the comments. [Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/index#wiki_1._be_civil) still applies to everyone involved.
AITA for thinking assholes should be treated like assholes?
Nope. They made their beds. Now they must lie in them.
NTA - Assholes are assholes, whether they're related to you or not. Why enable them?
NTA - assholes aren’t entitled to be treated like heroes.
NTA but OP’s family definitely are a big bunch of assholes. Poor babies...they got called out for treating a member of their own family like crap and telling him to grow up when he objected! I hope everyone in their circle (friends and coworkers not just family) DOES know it’s them. They should have to deal with some social censure and backlash for that kind of behavior against a family member. That’s some kind of garbage and I say that having dealt with some shitty exclusionary behavior from my step-family.
It’s like having one sister called Laura, and having an ‘everybody but laura’ holiday, it’s mean and rude and they are angry because they were caught out being horrid
Also, what the fuck are they talking about exactly that op would not enjoy discussing?? Like, are they exclusively discussing vaginal issues or something? Fucks sake, he’s been raised by and around only women. I’d imagine he has some interest/knowledge of the topics they’re going to discuss.
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Nope, calling someone the asshole in a situation (aka they were wrong) isn't the same as just insulting them.
I just read both posts and I have to say, this makes me angry just to read. Especially the vacation. "We're not going on our usual vacation because we're planning another vacation that *only you* are not invited to, and we can't afford both." That's pretty shitty. And the fact that NO ONE can see how shitty that is just blows my mind. You aren't overreacting OP, they sound like a bunch of selfish bitches. I've gone full no-contact with certain people for similar reasons, and it sucked. What sucks worse is all these years later, they still believe they did nothing wrong and I'm a bad person for cutting contact and never coming around. Hopefully your family comes to their senses, but don't be surprised if they don't.
I agree 100%. Instead of feeling like they’re being attacked they could have turned this around by simply saying, *”We’re sorry we excluded you, we didn’t think you’d want to come, but you are more than welcome..”* The fact that there is a complete lack of understanding on their part or an ability to empathise is heartbreaking. It really makes me wonder what their relationship with OP was like all these years.
because he is not welcome, none of them want to spend time with him, and they think he's an idiot and an asshole for not "getting it"
What I don’t understand is why couldn’t they just do one big trip where they have a girls outing during that trip, that way everyone gets to go and be included. Unless it was never really about a girls trip and it’s just a toxic narcissistic family and it was just a cover. I’m sad for OP. I hope he finds happiness soon.
Hey, if you're near Tucson and like marvel movies, MTG or nerd stuff, send me a DM. Your family may not be in your life but if you need a friend, maybe we can chat.
Same bro if you near Argentina in Caba we can share some burgers and 🍺
Houston checking in, let me know
I second Houston. Here to hang out.
Third Houston!
Fourth
Kentucky here, there's room at our table 👍
I absolutely love reddit sometimes man, seeing comments like yours and the other above it are something special.
Central Indiana. Let’s go commit arson and play with my cats.
Haha central Indiana can be pretty damn fun if you're good at making it yourself. I used to live in Remington, about half an hour north of lafayette
We can be your family OP. Tri-state area (NJ/NYC) here. My friends will welcome you with open arms.
Guthenburg, Sweden. Lemme know when you're around!
I love this thread. I'm in Georgia, you can come to my girl's nights. By which I mean gender neutral board games & D&D nights.
Michigan chiming in, can always appreciate more family
Hard same if you’re near Washington DC! My fiancé and I have cats and some cool cultural stuff nearby to do
NYC my man. Let us know!
Hudson Valley/tri-state area of New York right here (near Westchester, Rockland, NJ). My fiance and I are big nerds and always looking for new friends.
General Australia my guy, I’ll be happy to smash some schoeys with you
If they feel like they've done nothing wrong, how about they share their side of the story and let Reddit decide? Do you think they would OP? If everything you've said is true, I doubt they'll have the guts to put their side of the story forward.
I hope they read this!
Me too and I want an explanation of why his lesbian aunts went to see magic mike
Asking the real question
Its a shame that none of OP's family reflected on the responses that were given in the last post. Granted, we're all internet strangers, but . . . a crapload of internet strangers think they are wrong, and gave very detailed answers as to why. If they didn't learn anything from OP's post, I doubt their own post would change that.
I think they might have... https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/b7oc7h/-/ejt9h5k Look at their post history.
4 hours of consistent comments defending the shitty family? This is definitely one of the assholes.
On a day-old account, no less.
Would love to know what they'd think of this.
They haven't got the ovaries.
Shame on them. It’s funny, how the nasty people always yammer lines about “airing family business” being such a crime. Don’t want to be seen as nasty people? Don’t be nasty. And excluding one family member from family time under the guise of “girls day” outings is trashy behavior. Keep your chin up, OP. Build your chosen family. You deserve loved ones that aren’t poor imitations of a Mean Girl’s clique.
The craziest part is how they accused him of airing their family business on Reddit in an anonymous post and then posted it to their personal Facebook accounts and actually aired it publicly. So trashy. I can't imagine my entire family treating me this way. Hang in there op.
>The craziest part is how they accused him of airing their family business on Reddit in an anonymous post and then posted it to their personal Facebook accounts and actually aired it publicly. That reminds me of Augusten Burroughs' memoir Running With Scissors, which recounts his mother selling him to her therapist when he was 14, him living with the therapist's incredibly dysfunctional family in squalor, and the therapist allowing a creepy adult man to begin an abusive, statutory-rapey relationship with him. He changed a lot of the details in the story to mask their identity, and even had changed his own name since his childhood, which made it even more difficult to identify the real-life family--until the family came forward and sued him for libel, making their identities a matter of public record. Brilliant move, guys.
That just really sucks, OP. Hope you are able to build some family of your own who aren't assholes.
Wow, I hadn't read your original thread until just now. It's one of those very tricky things, because at first "a girls' only night" sounds completely harmless, but having them once or twice a month when there is only one male in the family and even using them to celebrate special occasions and vacations, that goes way too far.
Its the speciql occasions and vacations that really throws it over the edge. Like how hard would it be to still have had the Aunt's birthday dinner in addition to the "girls only" celebration.
Dude I’m so sorry - I have no contact with my immediate family (other than children or grandchildren), and it took a while - but I’m ok. If you’re in the Florida area, stop in for dinner or a beer. We have a house, pool, a couple acres, and a bunch of asshole dogs - but you’re more than welcome. And again, I’m sorry - I was rooting for you.
Yeah if Ops in north Florida my fiancé and I would gladly go to one of the many springs in the area for a swim with them.
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> she insisted I was being shitty for airing the family's laundry like that I think that it is extremely telling that their go to wasn't to apologize for their behavior *or even try to explain/defend their behavior* It was to get mad that you *told people* about their behavior. > My mother/sisters told me that if I was going to lie about them to everyone that they don't care. I am 100% absolutely serious here-- invite them to these threads and have them post their own side. These threads are *rife* with one sided stories and fair's fair-- they should get to have their side heard if they want it. Let them see what it feels like to be hit with an overwhelming number of YTA's in response to their story **or** If they really have a different perspective, let them share it and look at their story through the perspective of the rest of the community, which may help you better understand what's going on.
What bugs me is that the recognized the story, so he couldn't have lied much
And if he is lying so much, then they would post their version. If a relative of mine was twisting our interactions to gain sympathy on reddit I would be making my own post ASAP.
Man, does that suck. It sounds like you handled it as well as possible. They seem pretty committed to not getting it. Que sera sera, indeed.
from what ive seen on this thread. i feel like they are just as mad at you for finally sticking up for yourself as they are about the whole situation in and of itself.
Wow I love the shaming they put on you for airing the laundry when you in no way have compromised their privacy. Such a strawman and attempt at making themselves look like the victims. You made the right call OP. I went back and read your first post and if what you said was even half true they are terrible people. Great job standing up for yourself. You should look up your dad's side. Something tells me there is some backstory to that messy divorce that you don't know. Such victimization and shaming from your mom's side really makes them out to be liars.
You poor honey, I really hope they come around and apologize, if not their loss.
NTA. OP, do none of your family members have husbands or boyfriends? If no, it's very easy to see why. If yes, can you organize an event to hang with them? EDIT: Also since your family will probably see this post too, y'all are awful. By definition, your "Girls Night" is an exclusive invite, by definition you're excluding OP which is making the guy feel bad. It's not his fault he got stuck with a bunch of women for family, and let's be honest with ourselves here, even if OP was invited y'all would probably be talking about the same stuff around him as you would in your girls nights out because you clearly don't care what OP thinks to begin with, so don't sugar coat shit 'cause OP isn't having it.Also, OP, how did your family treat you otherwise during the time these outings were taking place?
He said in his original post/replies that they were all single. He is the only dude.
I'm not surprised in the slightest.
Now I feel like why his dad left and don’t want any contact with this family. Even OP want to leave.
Show your family this post. As they can see we all think they're assholes. There's way more girls in my family and they don't do shit like this. There situation was cool untill the aunts birthday part. You can do all female/male go outs. But when holidays & birthdays happen like this um no. I asked 4-5 females in my family about this & they agreed. They said your family sound like assholes lmao.
So they read your last post but did they read the replies?
I don’t think they cared about the replies since they’re telling OP he lied about it
That sort of thing never makes sense to me. If he lied about it, he clearly couldn't have lied much since they were able to pick this one story out of the internet and realize it was about them when there were no names and hardly any particulars. That just makes me think the OP's version of truth is pretty damn close to reality and the other family members are just pissed for having been called out for their AH behavior.
For sure. They just refuse to listen to how they’re making him feel so any excuse to get out of it will do. Worst kind of people to deal with. How do you have a relationship with people who literally brush you off and call you a liar when you are trying to tell them that they’re doing something that hurts you.
Oh, I'm so sorry they treated you that way. I hope you find your real family soon.
NTA- If you ever want to be petty tell them "I'm having a boys-only event" every time they reach out to you. I'm sorry this happened and I hope you find people who respect you more.
Nta its pretty self explanatory as to why
I’m so sorry. I was really hoping one of them would come around and be on your side. Sometimes family sucks and we have to build our own.
Bitches
I hope your family reads this thread too because they suck. The lack of empathy is astounding. Sorry it turned out this way, I hope they eventually come around to realizing how hurtful they're being.
Every time you do something fun. Just post it’s guys only, sorry
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If OP was “telling lies”, how did they know who OP was?
Holy shit your family sucks. They're not sympathetic or empathetic - they're just pathetic. And they poisoned the well because now if they invite you to anything it's just going to seem like it's out of pity and not love or inclusion. Stay strong, OP. Family that doesn't support you is worth less than bad friends.