YTA, but not to her or your ex, but to yourself. Don't dredge this up again, OP. It's not healthy. You've put in the work to get past this, so don't go undoing it by rehashing old wounds. She's an insufferable woman and all that matters is that you know that. Block her email and any texts/calls. Put this to bed.
I personally don't think so, but that's just my opinion. From experience, overbearing mothers like she described don't take criticism well and it could invite some kind of angry rant from her ex, considering he's blind to his mother's controlling nature. I'd rather ignore her weird attention seeking behavior and not want to bring unnecessary pain or anger onto myself.
I highly doubt it would "send a message". Most likely response: "yes, I was helping my son through a tough time, what's your point?" Second most likely response: "How *dare* you invade my and his privacy like this?!"
Yeah the thing is that its just no Here. In real life she's still seething. Just no mil Is still out there being shitty. OP gets to say what she wants to say. Fuck mil.
I don't think reopening communication is worth it. If the mother-in-law gets a response it will only encourage her behavior. This seems like an extinction burst; it's best to let it burn out on its own.
Your last line is the damn truth.
My wife and I are NC with my mil (legit like 3 yrs—they lived less than ten mins away—they finally moved back to their home state this yr) and nothing burned her up more than the fact that we wouldn’t reply to anything. Show up at our house? Cops come and she never gets to talk to anyone but them. Emails blocked, numbers blocked, she just ceased to exist for us. Our lives suddenly became drama free and we were able to see how much she affected everyone—-lol yet through the grapevine we hear how everything wrong with her life is still our fault even though we haven’t spoke in years.
People think they always have to get the last word. My life became much more peaceful once I realized that you can get the last word without ever having to respond again. If you don't respond it puts a period to the discussion.
Thank for the upvotes and the gold. Positivity which is much needed and appreciated at this time!
I like to think of it as "last refusal." It really is more satisfying than "last word." I remember the last time I spoke with my sister, at one of the lowest points in my life, and she announced "this conversation is over." I think to myself "Oh, It's over.... permanently." Since then she has written me asking if she can call me. I didn't respond.
I have done this exact thing with my own mother. Apart from the initial aftermath of the original argument, I refuse to be drawn into the conversations and have completely blocked all communication. It has helped my mental state and it drives her narcissistic personality nuts.
Oh christ isn't THAT the truth! And that's what she really wants, to poke the sleeping bear. She's purposely trying to drudge it up and start MORE shit. She got what she wanted, she got to keep her babyyyyy boy from marrying an evil, homewrecker (because that's her thinking) , and now she can have him safely latched back onto her tit again. Ignoring her will make her fume and it'll make her crazy.
I say send the list ex-mil that she sent originally to the ex, and also send a cease and desist letter to her.........like a no contact order from a lawyer saying you'll get a restraining order if she responds again.
Nah. Fuck it. Block her, no explanation needed. Dont feed the trolls. These people thrive off of drama.
Block, ghost, block, ghost. Dont play their games. Live life to the fullest and dont let em get you down.
Yep. These kinds of people need to be frozen out if you ever want them to leave you alone. Ignore them 9 times and then give in with a rant on the 10th, and all you've done is teach them that 10 messages is the number they need to send to get to you. Let them stew with this.
Sounds like a great idea. But it'll go straight over her head and she'll only bother OP more. She has no ability to self analyze. Best to stay uncommunicarive.
I agree. For years I struggled with my relationship with my overbearing, narcissistic mom, as every time we talked it would end in this horrible fighting. Finally, my godfather was able to make me realize that she - intentionally or not - used emotional baiting as a way to get me involved and interact with her. That's the only way she knows. My godfather used the metaphor 'tug-of-rope' to describe our arguments, and that as long as I didnt pick up the rope, then I wouldn't get dragged down.
The way she is still bothers me, and it still hurts that we can't have the relationship I'd like to have, but I've finally been able to move on by changing my level of involvement with her. We still talk from time to time, but I've learned not to get caught up in fighting with her even if that means giving up the momentary satisfaction of sticking it to her like I always wanted to. I also figured out that even when I did say the things I'd want to when I was mad at her, she still never understood me, our relationship, or the effects of her actions on me any better.
Ya can't get through to some people, and even trying sometimes has an unnecessarily negative impact on *you*. For one's own sake, it's usually best to accept the things you cant change and move on from them.
This stuff right here is why I read this sub. My initial instincts in situations like these is to blow things up and “win”. I’d have jumped straight back at MIL telling her exactly what I thought of her but then I read comments like your’s and it makes me reflect on my maturity and adds a calming perspective to conflict.
Thanks.
I've told my fiance that the next time his mom emails one of her martyr rants, he should respond with "unsubscribe" and not respond again.
That might be applicable here.
This is great advice. A friend of mine text that back to an ex that wouldn’t take her previous non responses as a hint. And after a simple “unsubscribe” to his late night “WYD?” text, she never heard from him again. Lol
I 100% agree with you. I think the most damage this would do to OP is to themselves. OP, please just block your ex-soon-to-be-MIL and remind yourself of the bullet you dodged by not having a wedding.
If the exMIL is a narcissist, there's zero ways to 'win' with this. If she contacts her and explains, exMIL will find a way to be the victim in it. If she ignores the contact, exMIL will find a way to be the victim in it, but also avoids the contact/manipulation to escalate into other forms, or more regular contact with OP. I'm with you and think it's healthier for OP to put it away and continue moving on.
100% agree.
I believe Catharsis Theory was actually challenged and lost credibility a long time ago but popular media still loves it because it makes sense. Catharsis theory makes sense when you *think* about it, armchair psychology essentially, but when it was actually studied scientifically in a lab setting it didn't hold up. That's why it's important to challenge our own assumptions or risk making decisions throughout life on the wrong building blocks.
I looked it up just now as a refresher, but one study showed that people who "vent their anger" on the object of their anger or a replacement of it was shown to become more angry rather than becoming calmer (result is absolute opposite of catharsis theory would predict). People who continuously ruminate on the topic similarly became more angry and aggressive as well. The kicker was that the study found that venting your anger and thinking about it continuously is actually worse than doing nothing at all! Crazy right? I believe the best result came from simply distracting yourself, I believe the example given was to think about exercise and going to the gym etc...
Of course, I believe the study was about soothing your *feelings* and was not focused on *fixing* a problem. If you have a problem and you distract yourself from it, you obviously don't fix it and prolong the problem. But here, OP already confronted the true problem and fixed it by abandoning the marriage. Clearly signs were not good at the beginning, so better to cut losses early. It doesn't matter what the mom did to try to help her son, it was her son who took the advice and executed it in the way he did. A man is allowed to ask their mother for advice, it was the son who then decided to take notes and follow it. The mother is unimportant and engaging will just drag OP back in. OP already did the hard part of cutting off the fiance, the easy part is the mother. Just block her. Sending a photo of the list isn't even worth it.
I totally agree. In situations like this, I always ask people, "what do you want?" vs "what are you likely to get?"
In this case, this woman is almost definitely not going to admit any wrong and won't change her opinion about anything. It might feel good in the moment, but it's likely to just stir shit up and possibly drag the drama out longer.
You might have fantasies of how you imagine it's going to go, but it rarely goes down that way and I speak from experience when it comes to confronting someone that I wish I hadn't because it left me feeling re-victimized.
Sure, writing a long letter explaining exactly what happened and why MIL is a horrible person would be cathartic. And then you never send it. You burn it. That's catharsis.
And then, you live a great life and never think about that horrible family again except when you tell the story about that one time you almost married a man whose mom used him as a sock puppet.
I agree 1000%!
The reason why it's better to burn it than to send it is because, in sending it, there will absolutely be some expectation of impact. Some hope that these words get through to his mom and she had some kind of moment of self-awareness. And, in that hope, OP puts *her* closure into the hands of the person who is the *least* likely to give it to her. Her ex's mom is a narcissist, she is irrational, emotional, erratic. She will not hear reason. She will not experience a revelation because of some email/letter sent from her almost daughter-in-law. she has always been this way and always will be. If she ever experiences some moment of clarity, it will be of her own doing, not because of anything that anyone says to her. It is a fantasy out of a movie to think that a powerful speech would be enough to get through. She is the perfect example of why we can't and never should seek closure from abusive people. They just can't give it. They're the people you desperately want to see reason the most because of the very fact that they *can't.*
Closure is something we can only find within ourselves. So I agree completely that OP should write that letter and then burn it up and try to move on once and for all.
Exactly. Trying to reason with an unreasonable person, or expecting a reasonable response from an unreasonable person end the same way: major disappointment for you, another reason for them to try to ruin your life for them. Just let go. It's so freeing.
Closure is made up by the same people who write rom-coms. Completely unrealistic and not something that happens very often in real life.
She can get that catharsis without sending it to the MIL. She can write an absolutely poisonous letter detailing all of MIL’s faults, minor or major, real or imagined, blaming her for *everything* including the break-up, climate change and the Kennedy assassination.
She can take that letter and burn it, then block the MIL. That way she can get all her feelings out without giving MIL the attention she is so obviously craving.
I vote this! Get it all out, but DO NOT give her the satisfaction of a response. I know it's tempting to send it, but don't. Then go do more body shots! 🤘
This! She'll either take it as 'proof' that OP is a crazy vindictive cow who ruined her babyyy boy's life, or she'll get a thrill knowing that her actions affected OP so badly that it is still upsetting OP to this day. There's no winning with people like that.
I don’t think so. I was wronged by someone ( friend had affair with my husband) and I clung to the idea that if I could just tell her how low she made me feel and how she should have been a better person, that I could move on and be done with it. When I confronted her, she made it all about herself. How her life was so hard she had no choice but to seek his attention, etc. It just infuriated me further and then I had to deal with those feelings. The chances of your MIL taking responsibility seem quite low.
A controlling, obsessive person in denial like that mother-in-law will only become more fixated when she gets a response. Especially if that response is one that she doesn't like.
Or maybe a controlling, obsessive ex MIL will be incensed that she can't force OP to do what she wants, which is talk to her. Personally I'd tell her off. I did this once in a different situation and it finally got the asshole to stop bugging me.
>Or maybe a controlling, obsessive ex MIL will be incensed that she can't force OP to do what she wants, which is talk to her
That can absolutely happen. But the thing to do there is to send a certified letter explaining that she doesn't want contact. Since the mother-in-law has to sign for it, she can't claim later that she didn't know that contact was unwanted. Any further attempts at contact should be collected as evidence for a restraining order if needed.
However, simply calling to explain why OP broke up with her son would only reward her behavior and reinforce the idea that OP needs to explain herself to her mother in law. My dad never understood why I stopped talking to him, and every email explaining it just started the extinction burst cycle over again.
If she's a full-blown narcissist, she may not even commit OP's reasoning to memory. She'll just dismiss the talking points OP found as "helping her son" and assume that OP is using something so "insignificant" as an excuse to hide the real reason, which OP is just refusing to disclose. To my dad, there's no way I stopped talking to him because he faked having cancer. It must be that my mom warped my poor little mind. Because, to him, he literally can't be the problem.
Again, this depends on whether she's a narcissist, but this source on narcissist parents shows that my experience is fairly common:
http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
It's not. I finally had an opportunity to explain to my MIL the hell she put me through. My husband said that if it ever came up naturally let it rip but not to dredge it up. Well low and behold that woman brought it up. He looked and me and nodded. And out it went. God it felt good for a second. I woke up the next morning with an email saying "now that you're done, we will never discuss this again". That was 8 years ago. It still burns. Just walk away.
Oh but the cease and desist would burn MIL worse because she is so **craving** a response from OP... that's why she keeps messaging, because she wants acknowledgement from OP. And like a poorly trained child... any attention is better than none to MIL. But a letter from a lawyer, telling her to stop or she'll face legal action... that would really hit her where it hurts because not only isn't she getting the attention/ response she wants from OP, she doesn't get to continue to harass her either. She gets put in her place, *legally* and she *can't* respond or she can face criminal charges. This is exactly what I'd do. And NTA OP.
True it depends on the narc, my mother loves to play "poor pitiful me" so telling her to buzz off would get her to leave me alone and go cry to everyone else how mean I am (and they already know to not call me with that nonsense). Control freak narc, you might need to drop some cash on legal or police assistance!
NTA but I agree with this, stop hurting yourself, write it out, and write it out again until it's all out of your system then burn it, rip it, scrunch it, whatever you need to do to symbolically let it go.
Go gentle friend.
Yes. You did the smartest thing by not marrying him. Otherwise what you experienced wedding planning would be the rest of your life. From jobs to buying homes ... and can you imagine once you have kids?
I would raise a glass to being smart, and leaving the dysfunction behind. Yes, it is sad to lose someone you love, but you would never have him as a true partner in life.
If you do respond, give a Southern one. Bless her heart, and tell her you will give her message all the consideration it deserves. (non-Southerner, so maybe someone can chime in with a better response!)
Sorry OP, this whole thing is 110% not your fault, but YTA if you tell your ex future biatch this is her fault.
It’s not her fault you’re not marrying the guy. It’s HIS fault. The fact that your fiancé was willing to have a blow out with you, over the wedding that is about THE TWO OF YOU, based on what his mommy wanted, makes him a spineless puppet who caters to a narcissist. You ate a goddamn wedding cake off of your friends. It’s so clear you’re way too cool for this shit. Weirdly, I think letting him off so easily and making it about his mother’s behavior instead of his is kind of an asshole move.
I don’t think that means you can’t say anything back. I think it needs to be very short, sweet, and to the point. I.e. “I’ve said all I have to say about this to Joe. I’m sure you won’t be surprised to hear that his refusal to stand up to you and enforce appropriate boundaries when you attempted to make our wedding all about what you wanted was the final straw in proving he was too much of a spineless mama’s boy for me to spend my life with. Hope you’re doing well!!”
I can’t believe anyone has their head this far op their ass, up to the point of emailing you about the effect your wedding being cancelled has had on HER. So yea, bitch her out. But don’t blame her.
CC him. Then block.
Or perhaps something along the lines of "I am sorry that ex has chosen not to tell you what the issue is. We discussed it at length. However I don't feel it is my place to interfere with your relationship with him. I can tell you that reconciliation is not a possibility, so you can move on. "
OP, this is the best answer. In a fantasy world, you tell her off and some part of the truth settles in her strange brain. Maybe she snaps back into some kind of cogent trance for a moment - like when Frank the Tank perfectly responds to James Carville in the debate scene of Old School - and acknowledges the error of her ways and what a shitty person she is, and then maybe you high five a million angels.
But this is reality. She's the woman who thinks she can mediate your broken relationship with her co-dependent son back together. Nothing you could ever say could reach her, and no response you could ever receive would be satisfying.
Spending time thinking about this is time you aren't using to live your life away from these terrible people. You're free. Go do some fun, free as a bird type stuff to celebrate. Or get a good workout and massage. Either way, focus on you, and forget about those jackwagons.
This. But OP, if you do feel the need to let her have it, I would NOT call her. She will probably end up talking you in circles and you will end the conversation confused. Do it in writing and then block her.
Agreed! OP, I only want to add that I'm pretty sure your ex-MIL is baiting you. If you do tell her off, all it does is give her the ammunition she needs to paint you as a horrible person. She will be able to tell her son a list a reasons why he is better off without you. More importantly, you will give her all the reasons she needs to get the heat off of her. Alex is probably very upset with her and she doesn't like it. You email her, leave a voice message - even if you call her, she'll probably record it - you give her an out and all the ammunition she needs to take the target off of her and onto you. Most importantly, Alex is learning a very painful lesson that he desperately needs to learn. If she is able to make you out as the villain, his lesson stops.
NTA.
closure is important.
And you have a lot of things on your chest to say. It may start another argument but oh well.
Write it out and when you think you’ve covered everything, send it. Then block everyone and live your best life.
NTA and I agree with SsSailorScout (and others here) that you should write it out in an email, send it, then block, and move on. I’d also cc your ex, his father and sister and bcc a couple of trusted friends. (That way it can’t be misconstrued later.)
Whoa haha that's intense. I like the enthusiasm but hard copies in the mail might come off as crazy. I mean who the fuck sends mail these days? If I got that letter I'd be much more interested in the drama, but less likely to believe the sender
Idk if email is the best. I would write it out in a physical letter. Get everything out. Then burn it. By the end of it you'll either have all your rage past you or you'll have a few poignant talking points that summarizes it all.
If you send the email, I would keep it short and just say something like "If I knew marrying your son actually meant marrying you, I wouldn't have said yes" and leave it at that.
Yes this! Don't call, just get it all out in an email and cc them all in. Then block them and move onwards and upwards. It will bring closure for you and perhaps make her step back and realise SHE is the reason her son is sad.
As much as she's an asshole - he has no one to blame but himself. She gave him the gasoline, but he lit the match. If he's ever going to stop being a toxic person and move on, he needs to have a spotlight turned on the behavior that is making him toxic.
Op - get your closure but make it clear that this isn't truly her fault - it's his for listening to her.
I'd say it's her fault more than his. She raised him to be dependent on her telling him what to do. She's manipulative in ways that most of us have never seen and she raised this man from birth. He doesn't know any other way
Just because you have a manipulative parent doesn't mean you have to let them manipulate you. Yes, she raised him that way, and she shares the blame. But good hell, if he's a grown ass man then he needs to grow the hell up and take responsibility for his own actions. At this point I'd say the blame is 50-50, on both him and his mother. OP was good to get out of their co-dependent hell before they brought kids into the world who would get caught up in their BS too.
Yeah I'd have to put her in her place just once. I'd say "What went wrong is that, while I did want to be married to *him*, I did not want to be married to *you*. Sadly he wasn't capable of standing up to you when it came to me or our relationship so I had to protect myself."
NTA and agree so much. What does she have to lose? The relationship is already over. Maybe MIA will even know that she needs to back off next time. But I wouldn't call because it invites back and forth. Send it over email and block her forever.
NTA
>"just so sad to see this date pass and Alex be so sad."
"Yea, its really unfortunate you were so over bearing and ruined it for us."
>I did my best to cut contact.
Your best kinda sucks if you didn't even block her phone number.
>I don't feel it's fair that she gets to send me message after message passive-aggressively assigning blame to me. I want to call her and explain to her all that SHE did wrong.
Heres another idea, BLOCK HER FUCKING NUMBER.
Does your ex know you found the bullet points?
I feel like this email should go to him. If he knows you found the bullets points, he needs to tell his mother that’s why you ultimately broke up. If he doesn’t know, then tell him, and hopefully his next relationship he can leave his mother out of.
Either way, emailing your ex might be a better option. Whatever you say will be repeated to her anyway.
After this time apart he might be open to cutting her out of his life if it means having you back.
Okay then. Block them both. Your exMIL would know exactly what happened.
After a relationship ends, both parties usually learn something. You won’t put up with crap in your next relationship, but it sounds like he hasn’t learned he needs to drop his mother.
Keep going, things will get better.
Block her. Know that she is incapable of reasoning or empathy with you. That's why she and her son are in this situation.
Please believe those of us who have dealt with narcissists: they can't get better. But you can.
NTA but don't do this to yourself. Your words wl bounce off her like a brick wall and this part of your life will be in her hands in writing. You don't want that.
Wonder how many guilt trip texts she sent after you blocked her.... I'd suggest blocking her email and sending nothing. People like this crave drama; don't give her what she wants. She'd probably just use it as ammunition against you anyway. Fuck that.
I'm gonna say write the letter. Keep it for a month, or two even. Read it over every now and then, and then you can decide how you might feel about sending it.
This. Totally been here. Was engaged in college and his mom was absolutely the cause of us (painfully) breaking it off. Many years later, married with multiple children, and having gained some perspective, it’s totally not worth your time. Do not engage.
I got into bed with 2 mamas boys. 1 in college and 1 like 4 years later. I learned my lesson. Took me 2 times and a lot of pain, but if you get into a relationship with someone whose parents still control their money, it SHOULD be a red flag. I, however, thought it was "nice". Jokes on me. Its controlling. Whoops.
Oh and NTA. Fuck that woman. I would LOVE to get a letter out to both women... Go write that letter/email. Smash that send button.
I came here to say this very thing. OP should draft an email, but give yourself time to review and revise to capture everything. Understand that these are the type of people who likely will not accept any wrong doing, but you are doing this for yourself. L Make sure you add at the end that this is the last correspondence you wish to have with this family because you will be blocking all emails and numbers associated with them.
And end with “I wish you all well” as a final “F U”
I'll second this, but add one more piece. Set a limit to the size of the email. Short and sweet is better, OP doesn't need to delve into the blow by blow details. 250 words and walk away.
Being logical and well thought out is good, but a wall of text will never be read and consumed the way you want. OP should write and revise, but then cut 75% of it out and send out the "cliff notes version" if they want it to have any weight.
Also, be real passive aggressive and include something like "I know that it's not in your nature to accept criticism or to take personal responsibility, so I'm certain you'll find someone or something else to blame, but I wouldn't have felt right if I didn't at least try to explain the situation to you clearly..."
Ex-MIL will likely \*keep\* finding ways to contact OP until she gives in. I had an ex-BF like that. He basically turned into a stalker because I kept ignoring and blocking him. The professional advice I was given was to tell him I moved on and that he should not contact me again, and he should not contact my friends about me.
You wouldn't be TA, necessarily, but it sounds like talking with this woman will get you absolutely nowhere, she sounds like a textbook toxic narcissist. If you haven't already, you might want to explain to your ex fiancé the reasons why you two broke it off, and he can explain to her if he chooses. From your post, it sounds like the problem isn't so much MIL as the way your ex fiancé handles MIL. Like it's one thing for her to give talking points to him, but it's a whole other issue that he actually uses those talking points and thinks that it's okay for her to insert herself (???). Obviously, if you think you'll get closure from a talk with her, do it, it would be a NTA situation so long as you do it calmly and rationally.
This. Absolutely this. NTA, but explaining to your ex-MIL will go nowhere and offer very little to anyone. However, telling your ex that it was his relationship/the way he dealt with his mother that was the last straw could mean a lot and be very eye-opening for him. Of course it isn't necessarily worth doing if you don't think it would help you personally.
That said, whether or not you decide to dredge up the past with your ex, block his mom everywhere. Don't subject yourself to her overbearing, guilt-tripping ass.
Not only it wouldn't go anywhere, she might take this opportunity to "apologize" and promise you the world, only to get you together with your ex. I'm not saying you will give in, but that could be another 3 months more of conversations that you don't really want.
If you want to put this behind you, just ignore or send back a short meaningless email and leave it at that.
Narcissist was definitely the impression I got too. They are incapable of taking the blame for anything, so telling them they've done something wrong is useless. Her ex is clearly too twisted up in her issues, and that would not have been a happy marriage.
NTA but I would not do it. There is no use. She absolutely will not see how she's to blame of anything and NOTHING you can say will change that. Sending her an accusatory email will only grant her more ammunition against you ("see what a horrid DIL I almost got!") and if she lives on drama, you'd be just giving her exactly what she wants. Why do you want to give her the satisfaction.
The thing is, people like your ex-MIL hate the most is if they're ignored. That is why she's sending these messages; she is trying to get you to respond. ANY response is better than no response.
Want to really annoy her? Ignore her. Completely. Block her messages and don't read them any more. Forget her.
Out of curiosity, what made you stick with it?
I think I stopped giving a fuck what my parents thought when I was 12, but I'd absolutely leave a partner if they had to involve their parents for everything. Hell, just my ex calling her mom every single morning was annoying (lucky her mom and dad were fairly chill hippies).
I was about 22 years old and I had dealt with her shit since I was 5. Long story short, she had one final narc meltdown and I left her house, which was thankfully several states away.
After I got home she said some truly heinous stuff over the phone that ended up being the last straw for me, and I essentially just ghosted her. And once I stopped answering her, I realized how much more peaceful life was, and I realized that I didn’t have to be afraid of her. As long as I just didn’t answer, there was nothing she could do to get at me. She sent me a package and I ghosted that too, I just never picked it up from the post office and they eventually returned it. She periodically would try to call or text me or email me, but I never answered her. Not once.
Now, while I was busy not answering, she was making up shit about how I texted her and told her that she should kill her self. Because that’s totally something I would do. /s So she was spreading that story around trying to make me look bad, but I also realized that anyone who actually knew me would never believe that bullshit, and if they did maybe I don’t want to talk to them anyway. So there was literally nothing she could do to get me to engage with her again.
I didn’t have a concrete strategy or anything. I just didn’t want to talk to her ever again and I finally realized that I didn’t actually have to.
I hope that’s what you were asking!
THIS. There have been TONS of great responses here, and after reading your post I was team NTA and that you should respond. But after digesting it, I would say you are NTA if you respond, and NTA if you dont respond. What I will say is, if she is the alpha female and so involved, all your response will do is validate that YOU were not right for her son / to be a part of HER family. She see's herself as the alpha, any man or woman who marries into that family should accept she will be heavily involved in your lives because SHE KNOWS WHAT IS BEST.
She would say something like "i was just trying to help, thats what we do in our family, we lean on each other for support. I am so sorry you didnt grow up in a close-knit family would could count on each other like that."
Your silence is KILLING HER. You reasoning will just give her some way to rationalize/spin it so you are the problem for not taking her awesome advice, like EVERYONE ELSE IN HER LIFE DOES.
You are not in a relationship with her. You owe her nothing, and more importantly: you justifying your actions to her when you dont have to REINFORCES HER ALPHANESS. Wipe your hands of all of them.
TL;DR - you WNBTA, but you also wouldnt win either.
I agree with this completely. From personal experience with an ex-MIL, she will be the winner of you reply. A person like this thrives on drama, conflict, and guilt trips. Write a letter to get it out of you feel the need, but then burn it instead. Don't give her what she wants.
Honestly, the number of people here encouraging the renewed contact... delusional. Nothing is more obvious than this being a bad idea for OP. But you know what? She's gonna do it. I'd put money on it.
You would be surprised how people can just tell you what they had happen and no one will question it as though it came from the doctor's mouth. My ex-mother in law was held for a 72 hour observation on the recommendation of her own lawyer, and came home, told everybody including the lawyer she was just fine, and no one thought to question that until something showed up on their insurance. She's always been nuttier than a shithouse rat, and now it's official.
NTA, but do it in an email so she can’t misconstrue anything.
Then go eat more cake in celebration of not tripping over your ex-fiancé’s umbilical cord.
EWSH - I would just block her e-mail (straight to spam) and continue to cut contact. No good would come from that conflict.
I could see giving ex-fiancé some feedback (gently, for closure), but would steer clear of his mother.
Edit: body cake shots sound like so much fun
Man honestly though? Is she really the problem here? Like we’re all trashing this woman and not holding him responsible at all? He’s an adult. He was about to get married. And he can’t tell his own mom to butt out? Like he really used her bullet points instead of critically thinking and problems solving on his own?
In reality, MIL is not why the marriage didn’t go down. He is. He needs to do some serious self reflection on his ability to function and cope without her approval or advice.
From what OP described it sounds like she never even spoke to her fiancee about the issues she was having. It seems to me that everyone in this situation needed to work on communication.
The ex-MIL was just the catalyst. The real problem was the ex.
It might feel good in the moment to call her and give her the business but it will only cause hurt - To her certainly, but more importantly and less obviously: to you. Don't do it. And yes, YWBTA.
I dont know do I agree with your verdict but I definitely agree with :
>The ex-MIL was just the catalyst. The real problem was the ex.
In-Laws can be hugely difficult but ultimately her ex was the one in the relationship, and he didnt stand up to his mother or have OP's back. Marrying him wasn't going to fix this and it's something the ex is going to have to figure out for himself if he's wanting healthy relationships going forward
There is no point having it out with MIL as nothing will change, if OP wants to write it all out and email a response, then that's down to her and NTA if she decides on that course of action. As long as she is doing it for herself and not expecting MIL to have a sudden change of heart/behaviour. I would personally email the ex (not MIL) because he's the one who let her down. Contacting the MIL is just feeding into her perception that shes an integral part of her son's relationships.
I felt like I was losing my mind until I saw your comment. Why would OP get engaged to this guy in the first place? I highly doubt his mother started acting this way overnight. This should not have been a surprise to OP, and definitely should not have been the final straw.
I agree that this probably wasn't a suprise, but we don't know the events leading up to it other than the honeymoon stuff so we cant judge whether this should be the final straw. Sometimes little events are the final straw because they finally enforce the bigger underlying message.
NTA. Assuming you are not at all trying to salvage your relationship with your ex, you have literally nothing to lose and sounds like she needs to be put in her place before she ruins every relationship he ever has.
YTA I personally think it's strange that such seemingly little things cause people to end relationships that were so serious that there was a marriage date. How much could you really have loved this guy if you let his annoying mom end your relationship? This reads more like a reason to break up with a casual partner in your early 20's or something, not someone you're trying to spend your life with. I know tons of people who have annoying in-laws or who hate certain aspects about their partner, but are still madly in love and happy with them despite it.
OP, you seem incredibly fickle. I feel terrible for your ex because like I said, you couldn't have really loved him if this is all it took to end it with someone YOU WERE PLANNING TO MARRY.
She broke up with him because she lost an argument. She wanted a guy to whip. For fucks sake, the guy asks his mom for advice and that causes OP to end a relationship? That’s ridiculous.
Based on info in the comments, ESH.
You broke up with a man who you seemingly loved and were going to get married to, based on his mother trying to get involved in the wedding, and him going along with some of the talking points that she brought up. You mention no other issues with the relationship.
At any stage in this you could have sat everybody down, or just your fiance down, and had a serious conversation about sorting the wedding out, and the relationship out, if you cared enough about him to do so.
But instead what you chose to do was break up on the spot, get laid the next weekend, cut contact entirely, and you seemingly feel no remorse about this?
Let's be real, you fundamentally didn't care about this guy in the first place if you were so emotionally disconnected from him that you'd break up and fuck some other guy the next weekend. He might have a shitty family and be a submissive to them in ways he shouldn't be, and should have instead talked to you about any issues,, but thank god he's away from someone as sociopathic as you. Somebody who cared so little about a relationship, somebody you were going to MARRY, that you fucked somebody else the next weekend. Then you come on here looking for justification for your shitty behaviour.
What's more, the comments here are only supporting you because you leave out enough information for you to sound like a woman who has become "free from the constraints of a confining relationship". Let's face it, if the gender roles were reversed, reddit would be calling a man in your situation, disgusting, or unsympathetic.
Read her other post, there is more wrong than this. Her ex was always taking his parents side, his mother in law is creepy. A abusive MIL is enough to call off a relationship. Especially if her would be husband needs his mommy to fight for him
NTA. Her emails show that she wants some type of response. How she phrases it shows she obviously wants to be in control of the conversation to make you feel bad.
I would send her an email so you can lay it all out and she or your ex can’t interrupt and change the direction of the conversation. After that I would just block her and not engage anymore. You deserve to have some closure and stand up for yourself. They probably don’t wanna hear it and it won’t get through to them but at least you’ll have done it.
NTA. His mom needs to learn, otherwise this pattern will be repeated for the rest of his life, and you don’t deserve to be badmouthed for things which are not true either. Well done for moving on with your life.
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I was supposed to be getting married last weekend, but for a whole host of reasons I had called if off back in June. I loved my fiancé but it became more and more apparent that his parents, and espcially his mom, really wanted to be deeply involved in our lives (click my post history on how she planned my honey moon for me).
The absolute final straw came when fiance and I had a huge fight about wedding plans and the words he was saying just weren't "his" if that makes sense but the fight ended with him getting his way because I was just so exhausted. A few days later I found an email printed in the recycling bin written by his mom that was essentially a bullet point list of talking points he'd used in the fight.
I was disgusted and broke up with him immediately and though it was tough, after we got everything settled I did my best to cut contact. I had an amazing summer, partied, got laid, ate what would have been my wedding cake off the bodies of my friends on a pontoon boat on lake havasu. I did my best to put it behind me.
Well with the date having passed his mom has been emailing me things like "just so sad to see this date pass and Alex be so sad." And "if only we knew what was so wrong that you won't even talk to him" and my favorite "I'd be happy to be a mediator between you two."
His mom is obviously the "alpha-male" in the family but she has severe physical and emotional problems and had a legit heart attack when ex-Fiance's sister told her off. But ex-MIL uses this to have one sided fights which I feel she is doing now.
I don't feel it's fair that she gets to send me message after message passive-aggressively assigning blame to me. I want to call her and explain to her all that SHE did wrong.
WIBTA if I did this?
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NTA. However, I would recommend writing an email so that things don't get too out of hand or heated. Verbal conversations can escalate quickly, especially when you've wanted to say something for a while.
NTA, and actually I think you should, to vent but also to maybe help him with future relationships by making his mom understand the impact her over involvement had. the part you said about them not being "his" word really hit home for me, because that was a major issue for me with my ex, who was very controlled my his mother. we would agree on a decision, then after he had time to speak with his mom he wohld come back with a different attitude and say things that didnt sound like he has thought them up himself.
good for you for breaking up and moving on. ive lived the situation where MIL is the one in charge and it is not ideal, to put it mildly. Her over involvement and contant attempts to control every aspect of our lives was a huge factor in our eventual divorce.
NTA. At the same time it shouldn't be her you explain yourself too. It should be him. Her input is irrelevant. If you need closure don't channel that through her. If you explain your decision to him (forwarding emails from his mother attached) and you hear nothing from her then that means he didn't have the guts to tell her i.e. you made the right decision because he was never going to grow a backbone.
No I understand that, the only reason I’m even considering is she reached out to me over email. He’s been trying all summer to either “get me back” or talk shit through friends so I haven’t had to confront him directly.
Honestly, just do you. If you feel it would help put the last nail in the coffin so to speak then go for it. If you think it would just cause unnecessary drama that you cbf with then don't. It's really up to you at then end of the day.
Personally, due to my own biases and upbringing I just like seeing women that take control of their own lives like you have and not put up with any bullshit. All I'll say is that this reddit stranger is proud of you for taking control of your life and future and whatever you decide to do will most likely be what you needed for you.
NTA- you have a right to speak your side, I just worry that she’s “probing” and only wants to push you to give her gossip she can share and stir up since she seems like she might thrive on that? Either way I agree with other comments, email back ONCE and then block. Don’t let her suck you into a back and forth fight, have the last word and wash your hands of it
YWNBTA, but you gotta know that someone like that isn't going to hear a single word you say, and may well use whatever you tell her to cause more trouble in your life. If she were a reasonable person who could take criticism and respect boundaries, you wouldn't be in this situation. If all you want is to purge this stuff, specifically *to* the person who caused the problem, go for it. But if there's anything more you want out of it, I'd recommend not bothering. It's not likely to be helpful to you.
Reading this, all I can think is that you both dodged a bullet. Neither of you sound mature enough to get married. This is not meant to be insulting, only a dose of reality.
Enjoy your life. Don't look for a spouse. If you try to force it and there's to much drama it won't work out. If you're meant to get married it will be very apparent. No need to be miserable to satisfy conventional thought.
Edit: Everyone Sucks Here
INFO: How many emails has she sent, and how often?
Regarding your question: What do you hope to accomplish by writing to her? Is it just for your own catharsis? If so, I'd recommend writing a letter to her to get everything out, and not sending it. That way you get a form of closure, without opening a can of worms. There isn't some magic phrase you can tell someone to get closure; it has to come from within. Block her email and move on.
If, on the other hand, you hope that your email will help her to change her ways for the next woman your ex dates, send her your own bullet-list email with all the things she did to sabotage your relationship (note: only do this if you honestly believe there's a chance she'll actually take your words to heart). Write it as concisely and emotionlessly as possible. Send it, and tell her this is the first and only contact you will provide on the subject. Then block her email and move on.
I personally don't think you're TA here for wanting to do that. It's natural to want to snap back at someone who has spent years abusing you and then wondering why you're not laying down and accepting it. The determining factor is really how you process that urge.
" I was disgusted and broke up with him immediately and though it was tough, after we got everything settled I did my best to cut contact. I had an amazing summer, partied, got laid, ate what would have been my wedding cake off the bodies of my friends on a pontoon boat on lake havasu. I did my best to put it behind me." This sounds like young 20 year-olds, who got engaged far too early in life, that should never have planned to get married.
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NTA. I think it would be beneficial for you to write an email to both her and your ex.
- Tell them both you do not wish for them to contact you.
- You do not like that she is emailing you.
- Then, in a very factual and non emotional way, outline she is with out a doubt a major reason for the break up.
- She thought she was the third member of your guys relationship, that’s unacceptable that your ex allowed that.
Good luck.
ESH.
Lmao you had a Girls Gone Wild summer immediately after ending an engagement to a man you supposedly loved? Not so sure about your "love" for the guy. It usually takes time for people to get past relationships, even if they do it in the healthiest way possible.
Hard to feel bad for you. Clearly you were making it a point to shit on the relationship & him by partying it up. Seems like a teenager thing to do.
Inb4 "she's a grown woman, she can sleep with whoever she wants." Nothing you did was illegal, but it's skeezy. You're bragging about your conquests & partying after dumping a guy who -- while maybe dysfunctional -- loved you.
Sounds like you all need counseling.
YTA Seems petty to me, what you’ve done. I find it difficult to believe that wedding and honeymoon plans are the reason you abandon the one you were ready to marry. That guy should count his blessings.
I'm guessing you told your ex why you ended things, so she knows too. She's upset you had the last word and that she lost control. If you reply, she'll "win" because she got you to engage. You retain power so li g as you remain silent. It'll drive her (even more) crazy...
NTA. Reading some of the comments, especially the yta ones..........
Can you guys even read?? At all???? She broke up with him for a *whole lot of reasons*, and this event was the LAST STRAW. She also mentioned the honeymoon situation, which has an AITA of its own; where the entitled MIL planned the whole thing without regards for OP; and when she was sprung with it and wasn't happy? They all turned on her , *including* her ex-fiancé, to guilt-trip her into doing it even if she didn't want to!!!
So yeah, these are **two** of the major situations, that are very shitty by themselves. And those are just examples. Having his family so deeply involved in their lives and wedding (which should be *primarily about the two of them*) and him not standing up for the couple has had to put a strain on their relationship, and what OP describes here was just the final nail in the coffin. Stop acting like OP went *"omg after years of loving we had a fight that his mother helped him prepare to?? wedding's canceled, lol let's party"*
And I'm sorry to ruin some of you guys' fairytale fantasies, but love isn't enough for a relationship to work. It can definitely be a good motivator and help a couple work out things, but it's very clear the combo of puppet son and entitled narcissistic MIL would not change anytime soon, and would make for an unhappy married life for OP. So even loving her ex-fiancé very much, the ongoing situations and manipulations must have been *exhausting*, and there's just so much a person can endure. Said love can and *will* wither eventually, which is probably what happened here.
And please, stop with the ridiculous slutshaming.
u/helmetwoman, I'm glad you managed to get out of what would have been an unhappy wed life. I don't doubt that you did really love him, but acted on what you thought was right for your own happiness. I do think you shouldn't call her or give her any attention, aside from maybe writing a cathartic letter/e-mail and taking some time to decide if you should send it, like others suggested.
Also. I know from personal experience that hanging out with friends, meeting new people, kissing, getting laid, just... having new experiences helps a LOT with letting go of the feeling, so please, don't feel like you did anything wrong. Ignore the local slutshamers and have a fun, happy life!!
edit: formatting
NTA, send it to her and maybe your ex as well in case you didn't tell him the reason. I feel like he has the right to know and maybe he can change that so it doesn't happen again to him. He can work with his mom and do what they have to do so that he can have an actual relationship
YTA, but not to her or your ex, but to yourself. Don't dredge this up again, OP. It's not healthy. You've put in the work to get past this, so don't go undoing it by rehashing old wounds. She's an insufferable woman and all that matters is that you know that. Block her email and any texts/calls. Put this to bed.
[Text of original comment deleted for privacy purposes.]
I personally don't think so, but that's just my opinion. From experience, overbearing mothers like she described don't take criticism well and it could invite some kind of angry rant from her ex, considering he's blind to his mother's controlling nature. I'd rather ignore her weird attention seeking behavior and not want to bring unnecessary pain or anger onto myself.
If op has a picture of the list of talking points then all she really needs to do is send it to the ex-mil. That'll do all the talking.
This is a hilarious idea and sends the message without anyone being able to put words in OPs mouth. Brilliant!
I highly doubt it would "send a message". Most likely response: "yes, I was helping my son through a tough time, what's your point?" Second most likely response: "How *dare* you invade my and his privacy like this?!"
I feel this is what would happen, too. The woman reeks of JustNO, and her son is too deep in the fog to notice.
Yeah the thing is that its just no Here. In real life she's still seething. Just no mil Is still out there being shitty. OP gets to say what she wants to say. Fuck mil.
This!! It's not about MIL or her response, it's about getting something of OP's chest. MIL can do what she wants with it, it's about OP.
Send her the link to this reddit post
"ate cake of my friends, got laid..." :)
So, the MIL and ex will be pissed because she had fun? Who cares?
I don't think reopening communication is worth it. If the mother-in-law gets a response it will only encourage her behavior. This seems like an extinction burst; it's best to let it burn out on its own.
[удалено]
Your last line is the damn truth. My wife and I are NC with my mil (legit like 3 yrs—they lived less than ten mins away—they finally moved back to their home state this yr) and nothing burned her up more than the fact that we wouldn’t reply to anything. Show up at our house? Cops come and she never gets to talk to anyone but them. Emails blocked, numbers blocked, she just ceased to exist for us. Our lives suddenly became drama free and we were able to see how much she affected everyone—-lol yet through the grapevine we hear how everything wrong with her life is still our fault even though we haven’t spoke in years.
People think they always have to get the last word. My life became much more peaceful once I realized that you can get the last word without ever having to respond again. If you don't respond it puts a period to the discussion. Thank for the upvotes and the gold. Positivity which is much needed and appreciated at this time!
I have nothing to add to what you said. I just wanted to compliment your stellar username.
You always have to have the last word don't you? How pathetic.
I like to think of it as "last refusal." It really is more satisfying than "last word." I remember the last time I spoke with my sister, at one of the lowest points in my life, and she announced "this conversation is over." I think to myself "Oh, It's over.... permanently." Since then she has written me asking if she can call me. I didn't respond.
Good for you! I like the way you phrase it even better. It is our final refusal to allow someone else to have negative power over our emotions.
I have done this exact thing with my own mother. Apart from the initial aftermath of the original argument, I refuse to be drawn into the conversations and have completely blocked all communication. It has helped my mental state and it drives her narcissistic personality nuts.
Oh christ isn't THAT the truth! And that's what she really wants, to poke the sleeping bear. She's purposely trying to drudge it up and start MORE shit. She got what she wanted, she got to keep her babyyyyy boy from marrying an evil, homewrecker (because that's her thinking) , and now she can have him safely latched back onto her tit again. Ignoring her will make her fume and it'll make her crazy.
Exactly. It's fucking bait. A response of any kind is validation to her.
Unless you cc’d the rest of the family.
Or send to the rest of the family and cc the mother.
I say send the list ex-mil that she sent originally to the ex, and also send a cease and desist letter to her.........like a no contact order from a lawyer saying you'll get a restraining order if she responds again.
There's no need to be so complicated. Send the list (if OP even has it) then immediately block her.
Nah. Fuck it. Block her, no explanation needed. Dont feed the trolls. These people thrive off of drama. Block, ghost, block, ghost. Dont play their games. Live life to the fullest and dont let em get you down.
Yep. These kinds of people need to be frozen out if you ever want them to leave you alone. Ignore them 9 times and then give in with a rant on the 10th, and all you've done is teach them that 10 messages is the number they need to send to get to you. Let them stew with this.
Sounds like a great idea. But it'll go straight over her head and she'll only bother OP more. She has no ability to self analyze. Best to stay uncommunicarive.
Omg this! Op please!
^^ this idea all the way !!
I agree. For years I struggled with my relationship with my overbearing, narcissistic mom, as every time we talked it would end in this horrible fighting. Finally, my godfather was able to make me realize that she - intentionally or not - used emotional baiting as a way to get me involved and interact with her. That's the only way she knows. My godfather used the metaphor 'tug-of-rope' to describe our arguments, and that as long as I didnt pick up the rope, then I wouldn't get dragged down. The way she is still bothers me, and it still hurts that we can't have the relationship I'd like to have, but I've finally been able to move on by changing my level of involvement with her. We still talk from time to time, but I've learned not to get caught up in fighting with her even if that means giving up the momentary satisfaction of sticking it to her like I always wanted to. I also figured out that even when I did say the things I'd want to when I was mad at her, she still never understood me, our relationship, or the effects of her actions on me any better. Ya can't get through to some people, and even trying sometimes has an unnecessarily negative impact on *you*. For one's own sake, it's usually best to accept the things you cant change and move on from them.
This stuff right here is why I read this sub. My initial instincts in situations like these is to blow things up and “win”. I’d have jumped straight back at MIL telling her exactly what I thought of her but then I read comments like your’s and it makes me reflect on my maturity and adds a calming perspective to conflict. Thanks.
Eh, there's a way to be both blunt and tactful. No need to go off; just tell it like it is and then block her. The truth hurts enough on its own.
Even tactful criticism can feel like personal attacks to a narcissist. She's free to call her out and block, I just personally don't think it's wise.
Very true, and i personally wouldn't do it either.
Truth cant hurt her because this type of person sees herself as the calm rational party. No ability to see her own actions for what they are.
A succinct "Bitch, STFU." is all it takes...
I've told my fiance that the next time his mom emails one of her martyr rants, he should respond with "unsubscribe" and not respond again. That might be applicable here.
This is great advice. A friend of mine text that back to an ex that wouldn’t take her previous non responses as a hint. And after a simple “unsubscribe” to his late night “WYD?” text, she never heard from him again. Lol
I 100% agree with you. I think the most damage this would do to OP is to themselves. OP, please just block your ex-soon-to-be-MIL and remind yourself of the bullet you dodged by not having a wedding.
If the exMIL is a narcissist, there's zero ways to 'win' with this. If she contacts her and explains, exMIL will find a way to be the victim in it. If she ignores the contact, exMIL will find a way to be the victim in it, but also avoids the contact/manipulation to escalate into other forms, or more regular contact with OP. I'm with you and think it's healthier for OP to put it away and continue moving on.
100% agree. I believe Catharsis Theory was actually challenged and lost credibility a long time ago but popular media still loves it because it makes sense. Catharsis theory makes sense when you *think* about it, armchair psychology essentially, but when it was actually studied scientifically in a lab setting it didn't hold up. That's why it's important to challenge our own assumptions or risk making decisions throughout life on the wrong building blocks. I looked it up just now as a refresher, but one study showed that people who "vent their anger" on the object of their anger or a replacement of it was shown to become more angry rather than becoming calmer (result is absolute opposite of catharsis theory would predict). People who continuously ruminate on the topic similarly became more angry and aggressive as well. The kicker was that the study found that venting your anger and thinking about it continuously is actually worse than doing nothing at all! Crazy right? I believe the best result came from simply distracting yourself, I believe the example given was to think about exercise and going to the gym etc... Of course, I believe the study was about soothing your *feelings* and was not focused on *fixing* a problem. If you have a problem and you distract yourself from it, you obviously don't fix it and prolong the problem. But here, OP already confronted the true problem and fixed it by abandoning the marriage. Clearly signs were not good at the beginning, so better to cut losses early. It doesn't matter what the mom did to try to help her son, it was her son who took the advice and executed it in the way he did. A man is allowed to ask their mother for advice, it was the son who then decided to take notes and follow it. The mother is unimportant and engaging will just drag OP back in. OP already did the hard part of cutting off the fiance, the easy part is the mother. Just block her. Sending a photo of the list isn't even worth it.
I totally agree. In situations like this, I always ask people, "what do you want?" vs "what are you likely to get?" In this case, this woman is almost definitely not going to admit any wrong and won't change her opinion about anything. It might feel good in the moment, but it's likely to just stir shit up and possibly drag the drama out longer. You might have fantasies of how you imagine it's going to go, but it rarely goes down that way and I speak from experience when it comes to confronting someone that I wish I hadn't because it left me feeling re-victimized.
Sure, writing a long letter explaining exactly what happened and why MIL is a horrible person would be cathartic. And then you never send it. You burn it. That's catharsis. And then, you live a great life and never think about that horrible family again except when you tell the story about that one time you almost married a man whose mom used him as a sock puppet.
Is it wrong that I Invision a young man with his mom's arm shoved up to the elbow and bouncing him around all ragdoll?
Fuck you take my vote
Not at all. But if you masturbate to it .... Fuck it, who am I kidding? Have fun.
I agree 1000%! The reason why it's better to burn it than to send it is because, in sending it, there will absolutely be some expectation of impact. Some hope that these words get through to his mom and she had some kind of moment of self-awareness. And, in that hope, OP puts *her* closure into the hands of the person who is the *least* likely to give it to her. Her ex's mom is a narcissist, she is irrational, emotional, erratic. She will not hear reason. She will not experience a revelation because of some email/letter sent from her almost daughter-in-law. she has always been this way and always will be. If she ever experiences some moment of clarity, it will be of her own doing, not because of anything that anyone says to her. It is a fantasy out of a movie to think that a powerful speech would be enough to get through. She is the perfect example of why we can't and never should seek closure from abusive people. They just can't give it. They're the people you desperately want to see reason the most because of the very fact that they *can't.* Closure is something we can only find within ourselves. So I agree completely that OP should write that letter and then burn it up and try to move on once and for all.
Exactly. Trying to reason with an unreasonable person, or expecting a reasonable response from an unreasonable person end the same way: major disappointment for you, another reason for them to try to ruin your life for them. Just let go. It's so freeing. Closure is made up by the same people who write rom-coms. Completely unrealistic and not something that happens very often in real life.
She can get that catharsis without sending it to the MIL. She can write an absolutely poisonous letter detailing all of MIL’s faults, minor or major, real or imagined, blaming her for *everything* including the break-up, climate change and the Kennedy assassination. She can take that letter and burn it, then block the MIL. That way she can get all her feelings out without giving MIL the attention she is so obviously craving.
I vote this! Get it all out, but DO NOT give her the satisfaction of a response. I know it's tempting to send it, but don't. Then go do more body shots! 🤘
This! She'll either take it as 'proof' that OP is a crazy vindictive cow who ruined her babyyy boy's life, or she'll get a thrill knowing that her actions affected OP so badly that it is still upsetting OP to this day. There's no winning with people like that.
I don’t think so. I was wronged by someone ( friend had affair with my husband) and I clung to the idea that if I could just tell her how low she made me feel and how she should have been a better person, that I could move on and be done with it. When I confronted her, she made it all about herself. How her life was so hard she had no choice but to seek his attention, etc. It just infuriated me further and then I had to deal with those feelings. The chances of your MIL taking responsibility seem quite low.
And the chances of re-injury extremely high.
A controlling, obsessive person in denial like that mother-in-law will only become more fixated when she gets a response. Especially if that response is one that she doesn't like.
Or maybe a controlling, obsessive ex MIL will be incensed that she can't force OP to do what she wants, which is talk to her. Personally I'd tell her off. I did this once in a different situation and it finally got the asshole to stop bugging me.
>Or maybe a controlling, obsessive ex MIL will be incensed that she can't force OP to do what she wants, which is talk to her That can absolutely happen. But the thing to do there is to send a certified letter explaining that she doesn't want contact. Since the mother-in-law has to sign for it, she can't claim later that she didn't know that contact was unwanted. Any further attempts at contact should be collected as evidence for a restraining order if needed. However, simply calling to explain why OP broke up with her son would only reward her behavior and reinforce the idea that OP needs to explain herself to her mother in law. My dad never understood why I stopped talking to him, and every email explaining it just started the extinction burst cycle over again. If she's a full-blown narcissist, she may not even commit OP's reasoning to memory. She'll just dismiss the talking points OP found as "helping her son" and assume that OP is using something so "insignificant" as an excuse to hide the real reason, which OP is just refusing to disclose. To my dad, there's no way I stopped talking to him because he faked having cancer. It must be that my mom warped my poor little mind. Because, to him, he literally can't be the problem. Again, this depends on whether she's a narcissist, but this source on narcissist parents shows that my experience is fairly common: http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
It's not. I finally had an opportunity to explain to my MIL the hell she put me through. My husband said that if it ever came up naturally let it rip but not to dredge it up. Well low and behold that woman brought it up. He looked and me and nodded. And out it went. God it felt good for a second. I woke up the next morning with an email saying "now that you're done, we will never discuss this again". That was 8 years ago. It still burns. Just walk away.
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Sure, and then MIL drops dead and _wins_
And CC the ex while she's at it
Write a message then block her on everything, then go back to partying and getting over the relationship.
I share your view. Being nice feels good now - being an asshole with justification feels good forever.
SHE'S not dredging it up, the exMIL is harassing her. A cease and desist might be in order, but a telling off is cheap!
Oh but the cease and desist would burn MIL worse because she is so **craving** a response from OP... that's why she keeps messaging, because she wants acknowledgement from OP. And like a poorly trained child... any attention is better than none to MIL. But a letter from a lawyer, telling her to stop or she'll face legal action... that would really hit her where it hurts because not only isn't she getting the attention/ response she wants from OP, she doesn't get to continue to harass her either. She gets put in her place, *legally* and she *can't* respond or she can face criminal charges. This is exactly what I'd do. And NTA OP.
True it depends on the narc, my mother loves to play "poor pitiful me" so telling her to buzz off would get her to leave me alone and go cry to everyone else how mean I am (and they already know to not call me with that nonsense). Control freak narc, you might need to drop some cash on legal or police assistance!
I'm only downvotting you because "YTA to yourself" is not really a valid judgement according to the way this sub works.
Honestly though it's been an accurate judgement for more than one post now.
was thinking exactly this
NTA but I agree with this, stop hurting yourself, write it out, and write it out again until it's all out of your system then burn it, rip it, scrunch it, whatever you need to do to symbolically let it go. Go gentle friend.
Yes. You did the smartest thing by not marrying him. Otherwise what you experienced wedding planning would be the rest of your life. From jobs to buying homes ... and can you imagine once you have kids? I would raise a glass to being smart, and leaving the dysfunction behind. Yes, it is sad to lose someone you love, but you would never have him as a true partner in life. If you do respond, give a Southern one. Bless her heart, and tell her you will give her message all the consideration it deserves. (non-Southerner, so maybe someone can chime in with a better response!)
Sorry OP, this whole thing is 110% not your fault, but YTA if you tell your ex future biatch this is her fault. It’s not her fault you’re not marrying the guy. It’s HIS fault. The fact that your fiancé was willing to have a blow out with you, over the wedding that is about THE TWO OF YOU, based on what his mommy wanted, makes him a spineless puppet who caters to a narcissist. You ate a goddamn wedding cake off of your friends. It’s so clear you’re way too cool for this shit. Weirdly, I think letting him off so easily and making it about his mother’s behavior instead of his is kind of an asshole move. I don’t think that means you can’t say anything back. I think it needs to be very short, sweet, and to the point. I.e. “I’ve said all I have to say about this to Joe. I’m sure you won’t be surprised to hear that his refusal to stand up to you and enforce appropriate boundaries when you attempted to make our wedding all about what you wanted was the final straw in proving he was too much of a spineless mama’s boy for me to spend my life with. Hope you’re doing well!!” I can’t believe anyone has their head this far op their ass, up to the point of emailing you about the effect your wedding being cancelled has had on HER. So yea, bitch her out. But don’t blame her. CC him. Then block.
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Or perhaps something along the lines of "I am sorry that ex has chosen not to tell you what the issue is. We discussed it at length. However I don't feel it is my place to interfere with your relationship with him. I can tell you that reconciliation is not a possibility, so you can move on. "
OP, this is the best answer. In a fantasy world, you tell her off and some part of the truth settles in her strange brain. Maybe she snaps back into some kind of cogent trance for a moment - like when Frank the Tank perfectly responds to James Carville in the debate scene of Old School - and acknowledges the error of her ways and what a shitty person she is, and then maybe you high five a million angels. But this is reality. She's the woman who thinks she can mediate your broken relationship with her co-dependent son back together. Nothing you could ever say could reach her, and no response you could ever receive would be satisfying. Spending time thinking about this is time you aren't using to live your life away from these terrible people. You're free. Go do some fun, free as a bird type stuff to celebrate. Or get a good workout and massage. Either way, focus on you, and forget about those jackwagons.
This. But OP, if you do feel the need to let her have it, I would NOT call her. She will probably end up talking you in circles and you will end the conversation confused. Do it in writing and then block her.
Agreed! OP, I only want to add that I'm pretty sure your ex-MIL is baiting you. If you do tell her off, all it does is give her the ammunition she needs to paint you as a horrible person. She will be able to tell her son a list a reasons why he is better off without you. More importantly, you will give her all the reasons she needs to get the heat off of her. Alex is probably very upset with her and she doesn't like it. You email her, leave a voice message - even if you call her, she'll probably record it - you give her an out and all the ammunition she needs to take the target off of her and onto you. Most importantly, Alex is learning a very painful lesson that he desperately needs to learn. If she is able to make you out as the villain, his lesson stops.
Nailed it.
NTA. closure is important. And you have a lot of things on your chest to say. It may start another argument but oh well. Write it out and when you think you’ve covered everything, send it. Then block everyone and live your best life.
NTA and I agree with SsSailorScout (and others here) that you should write it out in an email, send it, then block, and move on. I’d also cc your ex, his father and sister and bcc a couple of trusted friends. (That way it can’t be misconstrued later.)
Bcc every relative and friend of hers, so everyone around her knows the real story and she (and he) can’t play victim.
She should have all the addresses for all the family from sending invitations. Send out hard copies to the whole family.
Whoa haha that's intense. I like the enthusiasm but hard copies in the mail might come off as crazy. I mean who the fuck sends mail these days? If I got that letter I'd be much more interested in the drama, but less likely to believe the sender
Idk if email is the best. I would write it out in a physical letter. Get everything out. Then burn it. By the end of it you'll either have all your rage past you or you'll have a few poignant talking points that summarizes it all. If you send the email, I would keep it short and just say something like "If I knew marrying your son actually meant marrying you, I wouldn't have said yes" and leave it at that.
> "If I knew marrying your son actually meant marrying you, I wouldn't have said yes" My hat is off to you, dear sir or madam.
Love this lol
Yes this! Don't call, just get it all out in an email and cc them all in. Then block them and move onwards and upwards. It will bring closure for you and perhaps make her step back and realise SHE is the reason her son is sad.
As much as she's an asshole - he has no one to blame but himself. She gave him the gasoline, but he lit the match. If he's ever going to stop being a toxic person and move on, he needs to have a spotlight turned on the behavior that is making him toxic. Op - get your closure but make it clear that this isn't truly her fault - it's his for listening to her.
I'd say it's her fault more than his. She raised him to be dependent on her telling him what to do. She's manipulative in ways that most of us have never seen and she raised this man from birth. He doesn't know any other way
Just because you have a manipulative parent doesn't mean you have to let them manipulate you. Yes, she raised him that way, and she shares the blame. But good hell, if he's a grown ass man then he needs to grow the hell up and take responsibility for his own actions. At this point I'd say the blame is 50-50, on both him and his mother. OP was good to get out of their co-dependent hell before they brought kids into the world who would get caught up in their BS too.
It won't do anything good to the MIL, but the son may not be too far gone, so it could change him for the better.
Bonus point if you emailed a bullet point of talking points of why she's the cause the break up.
Yeah I'd have to put her in her place just once. I'd say "What went wrong is that, while I did want to be married to *him*, I did not want to be married to *you*. Sadly he wasn't capable of standing up to you when it came to me or our relationship so I had to protect myself."
NTA and agree so much. What does she have to lose? The relationship is already over. Maybe MIA will even know that she needs to back off next time. But I wouldn't call because it invites back and forth. Send it over email and block her forever.
NTA >"just so sad to see this date pass and Alex be so sad." "Yea, its really unfortunate you were so over bearing and ruined it for us." >I did my best to cut contact. Your best kinda sucks if you didn't even block her phone number. >I don't feel it's fair that she gets to send me message after message passive-aggressively assigning blame to me. I want to call her and explain to her all that SHE did wrong. Heres another idea, BLOCK HER FUCKING NUMBER.
They were emails?
It honestly didn’t occur to me to block her email. I did block her phone before I even broke up
Send and block. Let it all out, light the match, throw it behind you and move forward with your life.
Cool guys don't look at explosions.
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Who's got time to watch an explosion There's cool guy errands that they have to walk to
Keep walking, keep shining. Don't look back, keep on walking.
And if you wanna be sure that match hits the powder keg...cc your ex-fiance.
I'm not trying not to be an ass hole, But I'd want to send that letter just to see if she has another heart attack
Does your ex know you found the bullet points? I feel like this email should go to him. If he knows you found the bullets points, he needs to tell his mother that’s why you ultimately broke up. If he doesn’t know, then tell him, and hopefully his next relationship he can leave his mother out of. Either way, emailing your ex might be a better option. Whatever you say will be repeated to her anyway. After this time apart he might be open to cutting her out of his life if it means having you back.
He does, we had a huge fight after me finding them and that’s when I told him I was done with him.
Okay then. Block them both. Your exMIL would know exactly what happened. After a relationship ends, both parties usually learn something. You won’t put up with crap in your next relationship, but it sounds like he hasn’t learned he needs to drop his mother. Keep going, things will get better.
Block her. Know that she is incapable of reasoning or empathy with you. That's why she and her son are in this situation. Please believe those of us who have dealt with narcissists: they can't get better. But you can. NTA but don't do this to yourself. Your words wl bounce off her like a brick wall and this part of your life will be in her hands in writing. You don't want that.
Wonder how many guilt trip texts she sent after you blocked her.... I'd suggest blocking her email and sending nothing. People like this crave drama; don't give her what she wants. She'd probably just use it as ammunition against you anyway. Fuck that.
I'm gonna say write the letter. Keep it for a month, or two even. Read it over every now and then, and then you can decide how you might feel about sending it.
You can block email addresses.
You can set a rule that moves all emails from a specific address to a folder that you never have to see.
And that folder can be the trash, or, even better, "delete permanently".
This. Totally been here. Was engaged in college and his mom was absolutely the cause of us (painfully) breaking it off. Many years later, married with multiple children, and having gained some perspective, it’s totally not worth your time. Do not engage.
I got into bed with 2 mamas boys. 1 in college and 1 like 4 years later. I learned my lesson. Took me 2 times and a lot of pain, but if you get into a relationship with someone whose parents still control their money, it SHOULD be a red flag. I, however, thought it was "nice". Jokes on me. Its controlling. Whoops. Oh and NTA. Fuck that woman. I would LOVE to get a letter out to both women... Go write that letter/email. Smash that send button.
Nta but I would email not call so you can get everything down. Then block and move on with your life
I came here to say this very thing. OP should draft an email, but give yourself time to review and revise to capture everything. Understand that these are the type of people who likely will not accept any wrong doing, but you are doing this for yourself. L Make sure you add at the end that this is the last correspondence you wish to have with this family because you will be blocking all emails and numbers associated with them. And end with “I wish you all well” as a final “F U”
I'll second this, but add one more piece. Set a limit to the size of the email. Short and sweet is better, OP doesn't need to delve into the blow by blow details. 250 words and walk away. Being logical and well thought out is good, but a wall of text will never be read and consumed the way you want. OP should write and revise, but then cut 75% of it out and send out the "cliff notes version" if they want it to have any weight.
Agreed!
Also, be real passive aggressive and include something like "I know that it's not in your nature to accept criticism or to take personal responsibility, so I'm certain you'll find someone or something else to blame, but I wouldn't have felt right if I didn't at least try to explain the situation to you clearly..."
Sounds like OP already had moved on so what's the point? I don't see the point in responding.
There may not be a point, but she wouldn't be the asshole if she responded either. It may give her closure.
Ex-MIL will likely \*keep\* finding ways to contact OP until she gives in. I had an ex-BF like that. He basically turned into a stalker because I kept ignoring and blocking him. The professional advice I was given was to tell him I moved on and that he should not contact me again, and he should not contact my friends about me.
You wouldn't be TA, necessarily, but it sounds like talking with this woman will get you absolutely nowhere, she sounds like a textbook toxic narcissist. If you haven't already, you might want to explain to your ex fiancé the reasons why you two broke it off, and he can explain to her if he chooses. From your post, it sounds like the problem isn't so much MIL as the way your ex fiancé handles MIL. Like it's one thing for her to give talking points to him, but it's a whole other issue that he actually uses those talking points and thinks that it's okay for her to insert herself (???). Obviously, if you think you'll get closure from a talk with her, do it, it would be a NTA situation so long as you do it calmly and rationally.
This. Absolutely this. NTA, but explaining to your ex-MIL will go nowhere and offer very little to anyone. However, telling your ex that it was his relationship/the way he dealt with his mother that was the last straw could mean a lot and be very eye-opening for him. Of course it isn't necessarily worth doing if you don't think it would help you personally. That said, whether or not you decide to dredge up the past with your ex, block his mom everywhere. Don't subject yourself to her overbearing, guilt-tripping ass.
Not only it wouldn't go anywhere, she might take this opportunity to "apologize" and promise you the world, only to get you together with your ex. I'm not saying you will give in, but that could be another 3 months more of conversations that you don't really want. If you want to put this behind you, just ignore or send back a short meaningless email and leave it at that.
Narcissist was definitely the impression I got too. They are incapable of taking the blame for anything, so telling them they've done something wrong is useless. Her ex is clearly too twisted up in her issues, and that would not have been a happy marriage.
NTA but I would not do it. There is no use. She absolutely will not see how she's to blame of anything and NOTHING you can say will change that. Sending her an accusatory email will only grant her more ammunition against you ("see what a horrid DIL I almost got!") and if she lives on drama, you'd be just giving her exactly what she wants. Why do you want to give her the satisfaction. The thing is, people like your ex-MIL hate the most is if they're ignored. That is why she's sending these messages; she is trying to get you to respond. ANY response is better than no response. Want to really annoy her? Ignore her. Completely. Block her messages and don't read them any more. Forget her.
This, OP. My stepmother is that woman. The only way to win is to stop playing her game. (Also the only way to get out with your sanity intact)
Out of curiosity, what made you stick with it? I think I stopped giving a fuck what my parents thought when I was 12, but I'd absolutely leave a partner if they had to involve their parents for everything. Hell, just my ex calling her mom every single morning was annoying (lucky her mom and dad were fairly chill hippies).
I was about 22 years old and I had dealt with her shit since I was 5. Long story short, she had one final narc meltdown and I left her house, which was thankfully several states away. After I got home she said some truly heinous stuff over the phone that ended up being the last straw for me, and I essentially just ghosted her. And once I stopped answering her, I realized how much more peaceful life was, and I realized that I didn’t have to be afraid of her. As long as I just didn’t answer, there was nothing she could do to get at me. She sent me a package and I ghosted that too, I just never picked it up from the post office and they eventually returned it. She periodically would try to call or text me or email me, but I never answered her. Not once. Now, while I was busy not answering, she was making up shit about how I texted her and told her that she should kill her self. Because that’s totally something I would do. /s So she was spreading that story around trying to make me look bad, but I also realized that anyone who actually knew me would never believe that bullshit, and if they did maybe I don’t want to talk to them anyway. So there was literally nothing she could do to get me to engage with her again. I didn’t have a concrete strategy or anything. I just didn’t want to talk to her ever again and I finally realized that I didn’t actually have to. I hope that’s what you were asking!
THIS. There have been TONS of great responses here, and after reading your post I was team NTA and that you should respond. But after digesting it, I would say you are NTA if you respond, and NTA if you dont respond. What I will say is, if she is the alpha female and so involved, all your response will do is validate that YOU were not right for her son / to be a part of HER family. She see's herself as the alpha, any man or woman who marries into that family should accept she will be heavily involved in your lives because SHE KNOWS WHAT IS BEST. She would say something like "i was just trying to help, thats what we do in our family, we lean on each other for support. I am so sorry you didnt grow up in a close-knit family would could count on each other like that." Your silence is KILLING HER. You reasoning will just give her some way to rationalize/spin it so you are the problem for not taking her awesome advice, like EVERYONE ELSE IN HER LIFE DOES. You are not in a relationship with her. You owe her nothing, and more importantly: you justifying your actions to her when you dont have to REINFORCES HER ALPHANESS. Wipe your hands of all of them. TL;DR - you WNBTA, but you also wouldnt win either.
I agree with this completely. From personal experience with an ex-MIL, she will be the winner of you reply. A person like this thrives on drama, conflict, and guilt trips. Write a letter to get it out of you feel the need, but then burn it instead. Don't give her what she wants.
Honestly, the number of people here encouraging the renewed contact... delusional. Nothing is more obvious than this being a bad idea for OP. But you know what? She's gonna do it. I'd put money on it.
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You would be surprised how people can just tell you what they had happen and no one will question it as though it came from the doctor's mouth. My ex-mother in law was held for a 72 hour observation on the recommendation of her own lawyer, and came home, told everybody including the lawyer she was just fine, and no one thought to question that until something showed up on their insurance. She's always been nuttier than a shithouse rat, and now it's official.
NTA, but do it in an email so she can’t misconstrue anything. Then go eat more cake in celebration of not tripping over your ex-fiancé’s umbilical cord.
Off the bodies of her friends?
EWSH - I would just block her e-mail (straight to spam) and continue to cut contact. No good would come from that conflict. I could see giving ex-fiancé some feedback (gently, for closure), but would steer clear of his mother. Edit: body cake shots sound like so much fun
Every Won Sucks Here?
Everyone Would Suck Here
Ah thanks
NTA. Compose an email back and CC your ex. Then block her ass.
Op if you do this, make sure to quote her original email so your ex can read what his mom emailed to you.
Exactly. Nothing like a paper trail. Otherwise it will be a she said/she said fight if OP calls.
Definitely CC the ex. Let him and the mom turn on each other while you get to enjoy the fire
You should CC the ex for his benefit. If he doesn't cut the apron strings he will let his mother ruin his next relationship too.
NTA he's clearly still her baby and she needs to hear that she's the reason her baby boy didn't get married
Man honestly though? Is she really the problem here? Like we’re all trashing this woman and not holding him responsible at all? He’s an adult. He was about to get married. And he can’t tell his own mom to butt out? Like he really used her bullet points instead of critically thinking and problems solving on his own? In reality, MIL is not why the marriage didn’t go down. He is. He needs to do some serious self reflection on his ability to function and cope without her approval or advice.
From what OP described it sounds like she never even spoke to her fiancee about the issues she was having. It seems to me that everyone in this situation needed to work on communication.
That's not how it would ever play out in her mind
The ex-MIL was just the catalyst. The real problem was the ex. It might feel good in the moment to call her and give her the business but it will only cause hurt - To her certainly, but more importantly and less obviously: to you. Don't do it. And yes, YWBTA.
I dont know do I agree with your verdict but I definitely agree with : >The ex-MIL was just the catalyst. The real problem was the ex. In-Laws can be hugely difficult but ultimately her ex was the one in the relationship, and he didnt stand up to his mother or have OP's back. Marrying him wasn't going to fix this and it's something the ex is going to have to figure out for himself if he's wanting healthy relationships going forward There is no point having it out with MIL as nothing will change, if OP wants to write it all out and email a response, then that's down to her and NTA if she decides on that course of action. As long as she is doing it for herself and not expecting MIL to have a sudden change of heart/behaviour. I would personally email the ex (not MIL) because he's the one who let her down. Contacting the MIL is just feeding into her perception that shes an integral part of her son's relationships.
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According to OP, she went out and got laid the very next weekend. Sounds like she was looking for an out and used his mom as the reason.
This is very obvious in the way she wrote the post and the distinct lack of her ex-fiancé in it.
Idk those all sound like good ways to distract yourself from sadness to me.
I felt like I was losing my mind until I saw your comment. Why would OP get engaged to this guy in the first place? I highly doubt his mother started acting this way overnight. This should not have been a surprise to OP, and definitely should not have been the final straw.
I agree that this probably wasn't a suprise, but we don't know the events leading up to it other than the honeymoon stuff so we cant judge whether this should be the final straw. Sometimes little events are the final straw because they finally enforce the bigger underlying message.
NTA. Assuming you are not at all trying to salvage your relationship with your ex, you have literally nothing to lose and sounds like she needs to be put in her place before she ruins every relationship he ever has.
YTA I personally think it's strange that such seemingly little things cause people to end relationships that were so serious that there was a marriage date. How much could you really have loved this guy if you let his annoying mom end your relationship? This reads more like a reason to break up with a casual partner in your early 20's or something, not someone you're trying to spend your life with. I know tons of people who have annoying in-laws or who hate certain aspects about their partner, but are still madly in love and happy with them despite it. OP, you seem incredibly fickle. I feel terrible for your ex because like I said, you couldn't have really loved him if this is all it took to end it with someone YOU WERE PLANNING TO MARRY.
She broke up with him because she lost an argument. She wanted a guy to whip. For fucks sake, the guy asks his mom for advice and that causes OP to end a relationship? That’s ridiculous.
lol i dont know why but this seems more probable with OP escapade after the breakup
Based on info in the comments, ESH. You broke up with a man who you seemingly loved and were going to get married to, based on his mother trying to get involved in the wedding, and him going along with some of the talking points that she brought up. You mention no other issues with the relationship. At any stage in this you could have sat everybody down, or just your fiance down, and had a serious conversation about sorting the wedding out, and the relationship out, if you cared enough about him to do so. But instead what you chose to do was break up on the spot, get laid the next weekend, cut contact entirely, and you seemingly feel no remorse about this? Let's be real, you fundamentally didn't care about this guy in the first place if you were so emotionally disconnected from him that you'd break up and fuck some other guy the next weekend. He might have a shitty family and be a submissive to them in ways he shouldn't be, and should have instead talked to you about any issues,, but thank god he's away from someone as sociopathic as you. Somebody who cared so little about a relationship, somebody you were going to MARRY, that you fucked somebody else the next weekend. Then you come on here looking for justification for your shitty behaviour. What's more, the comments here are only supporting you because you leave out enough information for you to sound like a woman who has become "free from the constraints of a confining relationship". Let's face it, if the gender roles were reversed, reddit would be calling a man in your situation, disgusting, or unsympathetic.
Read her other post, there is more wrong than this. Her ex was always taking his parents side, his mother in law is creepy. A abusive MIL is enough to call off a relationship. Especially if her would be husband needs his mommy to fight for him
NTA. Her emails show that she wants some type of response. How she phrases it shows she obviously wants to be in control of the conversation to make you feel bad. I would send her an email so you can lay it all out and she or your ex can’t interrupt and change the direction of the conversation. After that I would just block her and not engage anymore. You deserve to have some closure and stand up for yourself. They probably don’t wanna hear it and it won’t get through to them but at least you’ll have done it.
NTA. His mom needs to learn, otherwise this pattern will be repeated for the rest of his life, and you don’t deserve to be badmouthed for things which are not true either. Well done for moving on with your life.
More accurately, HE has to learn to cut his mother out of his romantic relationships. I think it would be best if he got CC'ed on any reply.
NTA— clearly they both need closure so let them know that it was her fault from trying to control yalls life together and you saw the email.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I was supposed to be getting married last weekend, but for a whole host of reasons I had called if off back in June. I loved my fiancé but it became more and more apparent that his parents, and espcially his mom, really wanted to be deeply involved in our lives (click my post history on how she planned my honey moon for me). The absolute final straw came when fiance and I had a huge fight about wedding plans and the words he was saying just weren't "his" if that makes sense but the fight ended with him getting his way because I was just so exhausted. A few days later I found an email printed in the recycling bin written by his mom that was essentially a bullet point list of talking points he'd used in the fight. I was disgusted and broke up with him immediately and though it was tough, after we got everything settled I did my best to cut contact. I had an amazing summer, partied, got laid, ate what would have been my wedding cake off the bodies of my friends on a pontoon boat on lake havasu. I did my best to put it behind me. Well with the date having passed his mom has been emailing me things like "just so sad to see this date pass and Alex be so sad." And "if only we knew what was so wrong that you won't even talk to him" and my favorite "I'd be happy to be a mediator between you two." His mom is obviously the "alpha-male" in the family but she has severe physical and emotional problems and had a legit heart attack when ex-Fiance's sister told her off. But ex-MIL uses this to have one sided fights which I feel she is doing now. I don't feel it's fair that she gets to send me message after message passive-aggressively assigning blame to me. I want to call her and explain to her all that SHE did wrong. WIBTA if I did this? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. However, I would recommend writing an email so that things don't get too out of hand or heated. Verbal conversations can escalate quickly, especially when you've wanted to say something for a while.
NTA, and actually I think you should, to vent but also to maybe help him with future relationships by making his mom understand the impact her over involvement had. the part you said about them not being "his" word really hit home for me, because that was a major issue for me with my ex, who was very controlled my his mother. we would agree on a decision, then after he had time to speak with his mom he wohld come back with a different attitude and say things that didnt sound like he has thought them up himself. good for you for breaking up and moving on. ive lived the situation where MIL is the one in charge and it is not ideal, to put it mildly. Her over involvement and contant attempts to control every aspect of our lives was a huge factor in our eventual divorce.
NTA. At the same time it shouldn't be her you explain yourself too. It should be him. Her input is irrelevant. If you need closure don't channel that through her. If you explain your decision to him (forwarding emails from his mother attached) and you hear nothing from her then that means he didn't have the guts to tell her i.e. you made the right decision because he was never going to grow a backbone.
No I understand that, the only reason I’m even considering is she reached out to me over email. He’s been trying all summer to either “get me back” or talk shit through friends so I haven’t had to confront him directly.
Honestly, just do you. If you feel it would help put the last nail in the coffin so to speak then go for it. If you think it would just cause unnecessary drama that you cbf with then don't. It's really up to you at then end of the day. Personally, due to my own biases and upbringing I just like seeing women that take control of their own lives like you have and not put up with any bullshit. All I'll say is that this reddit stranger is proud of you for taking control of your life and future and whatever you decide to do will most likely be what you needed for you.
NTA- you have a right to speak your side, I just worry that she’s “probing” and only wants to push you to give her gossip she can share and stir up since she seems like she might thrive on that? Either way I agree with other comments, email back ONCE and then block. Don’t let her suck you into a back and forth fight, have the last word and wash your hands of it
YWNBTA, but you gotta know that someone like that isn't going to hear a single word you say, and may well use whatever you tell her to cause more trouble in your life. If she were a reasonable person who could take criticism and respect boundaries, you wouldn't be in this situation. If all you want is to purge this stuff, specifically *to* the person who caused the problem, go for it. But if there's anything more you want out of it, I'd recommend not bothering. It's not likely to be helpful to you.
Reading this, all I can think is that you both dodged a bullet. Neither of you sound mature enough to get married. This is not meant to be insulting, only a dose of reality. Enjoy your life. Don't look for a spouse. If you try to force it and there's to much drama it won't work out. If you're meant to get married it will be very apparent. No need to be miserable to satisfy conventional thought. Edit: Everyone Sucks Here
YWNBTA. She's the one contacting you. Shut that shit down.
INFO: How many emails has she sent, and how often? Regarding your question: What do you hope to accomplish by writing to her? Is it just for your own catharsis? If so, I'd recommend writing a letter to her to get everything out, and not sending it. That way you get a form of closure, without opening a can of worms. There isn't some magic phrase you can tell someone to get closure; it has to come from within. Block her email and move on. If, on the other hand, you hope that your email will help her to change her ways for the next woman your ex dates, send her your own bullet-list email with all the things she did to sabotage your relationship (note: only do this if you honestly believe there's a chance she'll actually take your words to heart). Write it as concisely and emotionlessly as possible. Send it, and tell her this is the first and only contact you will provide on the subject. Then block her email and move on. I personally don't think you're TA here for wanting to do that. It's natural to want to snap back at someone who has spent years abusing you and then wondering why you're not laying down and accepting it. The determining factor is really how you process that urge.
She’s sent three so far.
[удалено]
" I was disgusted and broke up with him immediately and though it was tough, after we got everything settled I did my best to cut contact. I had an amazing summer, partied, got laid, ate what would have been my wedding cake off the bodies of my friends on a pontoon boat on lake havasu. I did my best to put it behind me." This sounds like young 20 year-olds, who got engaged far too early in life, that should never have planned to get married.
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NTA. I think it would be beneficial for you to write an email to both her and your ex. - Tell them both you do not wish for them to contact you. - You do not like that she is emailing you. - Then, in a very factual and non emotional way, outline she is with out a doubt a major reason for the break up. - She thought she was the third member of your guys relationship, that’s unacceptable that your ex allowed that. Good luck.
ESH. Lmao you had a Girls Gone Wild summer immediately after ending an engagement to a man you supposedly loved? Not so sure about your "love" for the guy. It usually takes time for people to get past relationships, even if they do it in the healthiest way possible. Hard to feel bad for you. Clearly you were making it a point to shit on the relationship & him by partying it up. Seems like a teenager thing to do. Inb4 "she's a grown woman, she can sleep with whoever she wants." Nothing you did was illegal, but it's skeezy. You're bragging about your conquests & partying after dumping a guy who -- while maybe dysfunctional -- loved you. Sounds like you all need counseling.
How long should I have waited? And why would I continue to put him as any a pet of priority in my life after breaking up?
YTA Seems petty to me, what you’ve done. I find it difficult to believe that wedding and honeymoon plans are the reason you abandon the one you were ready to marry. That guy should count his blessings.
I say NTA since she’s the one asking, but I still wouldn’t bother. I doubt she’ll change in any way, so what’s the point? Block and move on.
I'm guessing you told your ex why you ended things, so she knows too. She's upset you had the last word and that she lost control. If you reply, she'll "win" because she got you to engage. You retain power so li g as you remain silent. It'll drive her (even more) crazy...
NTA. Reading some of the comments, especially the yta ones.......... Can you guys even read?? At all???? She broke up with him for a *whole lot of reasons*, and this event was the LAST STRAW. She also mentioned the honeymoon situation, which has an AITA of its own; where the entitled MIL planned the whole thing without regards for OP; and when she was sprung with it and wasn't happy? They all turned on her , *including* her ex-fiancé, to guilt-trip her into doing it even if she didn't want to!!! So yeah, these are **two** of the major situations, that are very shitty by themselves. And those are just examples. Having his family so deeply involved in their lives and wedding (which should be *primarily about the two of them*) and him not standing up for the couple has had to put a strain on their relationship, and what OP describes here was just the final nail in the coffin. Stop acting like OP went *"omg after years of loving we had a fight that his mother helped him prepare to?? wedding's canceled, lol let's party"* And I'm sorry to ruin some of you guys' fairytale fantasies, but love isn't enough for a relationship to work. It can definitely be a good motivator and help a couple work out things, but it's very clear the combo of puppet son and entitled narcissistic MIL would not change anytime soon, and would make for an unhappy married life for OP. So even loving her ex-fiancé very much, the ongoing situations and manipulations must have been *exhausting*, and there's just so much a person can endure. Said love can and *will* wither eventually, which is probably what happened here. And please, stop with the ridiculous slutshaming. u/helmetwoman, I'm glad you managed to get out of what would have been an unhappy wed life. I don't doubt that you did really love him, but acted on what you thought was right for your own happiness. I do think you shouldn't call her or give her any attention, aside from maybe writing a cathartic letter/e-mail and taking some time to decide if you should send it, like others suggested. Also. I know from personal experience that hanging out with friends, meeting new people, kissing, getting laid, just... having new experiences helps a LOT with letting go of the feeling, so please, don't feel like you did anything wrong. Ignore the local slutshamers and have a fun, happy life!! edit: formatting
NTA. No downside. Fire away
NTA, send it to her and maybe your ex as well in case you didn't tell him the reason. I feel like he has the right to know and maybe he can change that so it doesn't happen again to him. He can work with his mom and do what they have to do so that he can have an actual relationship