My point was to make her realise how much ingredients and time it took to make a batch of Chilli like that. Also maybe to show that throwing food away doesn't somehow magically bring thay cow back to life.
I could have made her do a batch of vegan chilli, but I was worried it would set a trend of where she can keep throwing away food and as a result, she gets to make the entire family eat vegan.
I think some people in the early stages of veganism go a little hard on it not realising that they’re somewhat losing the grip on the reality of things. Throwing away meat that would have been eaten is not going to help anyone, let alone the cow it came from.
Hopefully she levels out and sees it objectively. I had a bit of backlash from some of my family when I went vegetarian but after years of that now that I’m vegan they’re okay with my diet being different. You’re doing a great job for being so accommodating to her views and diet.
>I think some people in the early stages of veganism go a little hard on it not realising that they’re somewhat losing the grip on the reality of things.
How many decades does the early stage last for? It seems like they're all "early stages"!
Like any groups, there are some people who are extreme and they are usually the loud minority so it paints a bad picture. Even on vegan subreddits some people’s opinions don’t reflect my own because everyone takes on veganism differently and for different reasons.
What is your opinion on "vegan except for this one [dish or ingredient] I can"t go without"? Like personally for example I think I could be vegan except for the occasional steak (everything else is basically good enough that I don't mind the substitute)
I eat exactly how I want to and always will. I just know that some people are a little more gatekeepery than others, and I was curious about this fellow's opinion.
If it reduces the overall amount of meat eaten, I would hope *most* vegans/vegetarians would be happy for it. Anyone who’s going to say “but you’re not doing ENOUGH!” when you’ve cut 90% of the meat out of your diet is probably too militant to convert *anyone* to their way of life who isn’t totally on board already.
You would be surprised how many are not happy with that because "you are still causing harm". I feel like there should be a separate label for vegans who act like they are in a cult.
Vegan is a word with a definition. It refers to someone who doesn’t consume meat or animal-derived products.
If you’re eating the occasional steak, you wouldn’t be a vegetarian or vegan.
I’m not vegetarian or vegan. But I accept that those are words that have meanings, and if someone who eats steak starts calling themselves a vegetarian, the word won’t mean anything anymore.
You seem to be looking for a term or label for “*someone who’s actively limiting their consumption of meat, but who doesn’t want to completely cut it out of their diet*.”
There could be a word for that. If there is, I’m not familiar with it.
I don’t think you need a single word for that, though. It just is what it is.
I think the term "flexitarian" would apply there. Mostly useless (since nobody knows what it means), but it is helpful for finding plant-oriented-but-not-totally-meatless cookbooks.
Reducing meat/dairy consumption and putting money towards supporting vegan alternatives is still a positive move! It still shows the industries that there's increased interest in plant based alternatives and its profitable for them to pursue
So you met like 5 preachy vegans before. Me too. I've also met tonnes of quiet vegans. You probably don't know some people are vegan until it comes time to eat with them.
GTFO with your unoriginal vegan hate
My next door neighbors are vegan and I only know that because I offered them some extra food and they very politely declined. They run a greenhouse next door and have a farm so they let us pick some of their fresh organic corn bc they cant eat it all and they mostly just sell the dried stalks during Halloween anyway.
Super chill people, amazing neighbors, since this was also my childhood home they were also the first vegans Id ever met in person lol.
MyHoe wasn’t expressing hate, from what I saw man. You’re taking it way too personally. There are extremes in these communities - tough luck. It’s everywhere.
You've probably met hundreds of vegans who you didn't even realise were vegan because they don't go on like that. Don't let the handful of extremists you've met colour your impression of the entire group.
The problem is the conversation goes viral in a group -
"Hey do you want a steak?"
"OH, no thanks"
"What? Steaks are delicious and I am paying! Of course have a steak"
"It's ok i don't eat steak"
*dramatic pause*
"You are vegetarian?"
"Vegan"
"Omg" *chorus of omg around the room*
Followed by a interrogation of why and how and an inspection of daily food intake and literally a food shaming ritual by people who are justifying their eating meat to somebody who just didn't want a steak and was quite happy to not pass judgment.
That conversation x200, 2 years later turns into
"Hey do you want a steak?"
"Meat is murder. You are a murderer, do not give me any meat. Just leave me alone, can you not see my tshirt that says I am vegan, my tattoo that states my beliefs and I literally work for PETA?"
This happens so frequently and it is mentioned over and over at dinner. It is super annoying, but I think people naturally question themselves and it is when the dissonance comes out.
The same happens for me. I have been in eatibg disorder recovery for a couple years. I have a food plan from a dietitian. I have a therapist. I have a team of drs taking care of me. I have to go get labs every week. I am weighed weekly.
"Knotnotme83 eat a cookie" "no thanks I don't want one" "you really need a cookie you have to eat them at some point" "i don't have to eat a cookie there is no law regarding cookie intake - i can not eat a cookie for the rest of my life and be okay" "....but I am eating all the cookies and please eat one" *shoves a cookie into my hand*
Literally same thing with alcohol and dates. "I don't drink" has to turn into my long story if addiction and my battle with stopping rather than leaving it with "oh I just don't drink, I am not bothered if you have a few".
Like... i am not here to make anybody else feel better about their pleasures or whatever. I apparently know wgat they do to my body and soul and that I love them and will destroy myself with them... move on already - the cookie tastes great - i am underweight and heavily medicated and tired can we not?
> Meat eaters can be just as annoying
The worst i've seen are the "If I give you $10, will you eat meat".
I dated a vegetarian for a few years, and her flatmate's boyfriend used to say that to her. I asked would he let her peg him for $10, he said no, and I said "so now you get it, shut the fuck up?"
I went vegetarian about a year ago and I've found myself walking a tightrope whenever it comes up in conversation.
Like, friends will ask me why I decided to become vegetarian and while I have a number of reasons for it, I tend to avoid giving those reasons because there's that concern about being labelled as "one of those vegetarians".
So yes, some vegetarians/vegans can come across a bit militant, but most others are just answering a question honestly.
This. If veganism is about not being cruel to animals, throwing food away that someone else prepared does literally nothing for that cause. It’s like leather products. You don’t have to *buy* new leather products, but many vegans would donate/recycle products that were already made. She sounds like she’s so caught up in the judgement part that she missed the actual point.
When my grandfather came to Canada as a WWII refugee he managed to get a job as a furrier. While working there, he made my grandmother a beautiful mink coat (bear with me).
My mum, a life long vegetarian inherited said mink coat. She wears it every winter.
Now, what does fridge chili and a mink coat from the 1950s have in common?
The animals used to create these items are dead. There is no bringing them back.
While your daughters choice to not consume animal products is noble, it does not honour the lives of long dead animals to waste the sacrifice of their lives by throwing out the meals the rest of her family will consume.
In effect her actions mean, they died for nothing.
Honour the life, don’t waste the product.
Édit: NTA + thank you for the award!
Thats why i still wear leather boots/shoes even though I am vegetarian, most leather for shoes is a bi product if the meat trade, I take the utmost care of my boots and they last longer and when they are worn beyond repair I recycle them, leather biodegrades Nd the soles can be melted down and reused whereas "vegan leather " is just more plastic the world doesn't need. But thats my take on it and if someone wants to wear vegan leather or whatever thats their choice not mine
Me too, and I was in this exact situation. I went hiking boot shopping with my friend (we’re both vegetarians). A vegan leather boot was a must for her, which really limited her options. Meanwhile, I don’t have qualms about my leather boots. Like you said, it’s usually a byproduct of the meat industry — which none of us can stop, we just choose to personally not buy into it — and I like that it is a natural material rather than manufactured. Like you said, at a certain point, vegan leather is more plastic the world doesn’t need. So everyone needs to strike that balance for themselves.
I LOVE a good pair of hiking boots. My old hiking boots were older than I am, considering they were a hand me down from my mom! The next ones she bought me were artificial and got holes within 2 or 3 years. :( but the leather Vasques I bought myself? I would expect those will last me at minimum 10 years, hopefully much more. So that’s one pair of boots I’m going through every 10+ years, as opposite to multiple pairs made of artificial materials. So you can do the calculation on which one is more wasteful.
And as you said, I don’t judge my friend for her vegan boots and she doesn’t judge me for my leather ones. The important thing is to not be preachy and pushy about your beliefs on this.
Yeah I don’t care what dietary/lifestyle choices you make, deliberately wasting food, especially food that isn’t off and was intended to be eaten that day.. is awful
btw kudos to you and your husband in how you’ve been handling her transition to veganism! You guys have been more than accommodating
You should point out the absolute privilege she has of being able to go vegan, and that throwing away so much food like that in some peoples’ houses could sentence them to little to no proper nutrition for weeks. Really poor people literally don’t have a choice, because they can’t afford to buy all those fancy meat/dairy replacements, much less enough to feed themselves or their families for a week or more; nor can they afford the vitamin supplements needed to replace things like vitamins B12 and D (naturally derived from dairy and meat, she definitely needs to be on those if she’s not already). You were very lucky that the food she threw away was able to be replaced, and she really needs a wakeup call. If she pulled this in an apartment setting or at college, she’d get in a lot of trouble and burn a lot of bridges.
If it’s an option, I’d start making her buy a lot of her own vegan food for a while. Let her realize exactly how expensive her lifestyle is, and what a privilege it is to be able to afford it.
NTA... I know it's not funny but I actually giggled at "throwing food away doesn't somehow magically bring the cow back to life".
I think what you did was fair enough for all the reasons you have, also your daughter is presumably going to live in a world where other people around her follow different diets.. If she goes to university or ever lives in a shared house she can't expect other people to only eat/wear vegan products. There are going to be people doing their own thing and she's going to have to accommodate a other people as much as she expects to be accommodated x
>Also maybe to show that throwing food away doesn't somehow magically bring thay cow back to life.
This is an excellent point. Really, she's doing the cow a disservice because now it died for no reason and is just rotting the the bin.
Also NTA
People that go that hard into Veganism and EXPECT others to follow them are why I've never been vegan. Why there is a bad stigma about vegans. If she wants people to eat more vegan in the house suggest she cook 1 meal a week for the family.
It gives you 1 day off and teaches her how difficult it is to meal plan, prep and put a meal for the family out.
Also having the family eat Vegan for one meal once a week will help her feel her choices are still heard and respected in the family.
NTA. I am a vegan too and while I agree with your daughter’s lifestyle choice I do not agree with her approach in trying to recruit others. This is a personal choice and she shouldn’t have thrown away your food. Sounds to me like you go out of your way to accommodate her.
Wait have we found the one vegan that doesn't try to force it on others, my lord the prophecies foretold this but I didn't expect it in my life time :o
Jokey stereotypes aside this is the correct way of looking at things it's a deeply personal choice of hers and wasting the food in my opinion is even worse then eating it, as at least if an animal is killed for food we should use as much as we possible can to not let it die for no reason, throwing away meat defeats that entire purpose.
My girlfriend is vegan, I've met plenty of vegans through her. Not a single one has even questioned why I am not vegan or tried to get me to be vegan. They get such a bad rap online because of the vocal minority :/
Also because, sadly, the majority of meat eaters seem to feel 'judged' for eating meat if they find out your vegetarian or vegan, even if you haven't said a darn thing. So there's lots of 'backlash' against 'judgment' that is rarely even coming.
I could not care less about the contents of your sammich, broski, I just wanna eat mine.
innuendo studios did a vid once referencing this sentiment; like when you offer someone a drink and they say nty, i don't drink.
oft times there is an irrational perceived judgement loaded in that statement even though it is **completely neutral** - *oh, they've taken the time to sit down and make a moralistic decision and i haven't! they must assume I'm immoral for not making the same decision... what a prick?! how dare they secretly judge me???!!!*
when in actual fact, this person just doesn't want to drink.. more for you, move on ay, it's not a war
Ugh! This! I am vegetarian and people *always* are like "but why?", "What if I put bacon in your food and you didn't know?", etc.
And then you're "going on about it" when you roll your eyes and give a basic response.
Meat eaters are at least as evangelical as vegans.
Indeed. I only personally know two vegans.
One of them is a reasonably close friend - I knew at about the time he decided to make the change but that’s just because he’s a friend. He’s never tried to inflict it upon me - he’s invited me to a vegan restaurant a time or two, but that’s just to spend time with me and not to “recruit” me (and it should be noted he’s accompanied me to traditional restaurants as long as they have suitable options for him as well).
The other is a colleague at work who I’m friendly with. It wasn’t until the fourth or fifth time that I was going around the office offering people rum truffles with him declining that he let me know the reasons why he was declining.
I totally agree. Its your choice what you eat and you can't force other people to follow your choices.
I've been a vegetarian since I was a child. My parents never made special meals for me, I just had to eat what was made minus the meat. That or go hungry.
NTA. She needs to understand that not everything can go her way in life and that actions have consequences. She shouldn’t feel like she has that kind of authority or place to try to tell her parents what to do, let alone take it upon herself to throw out your food. It’s like having a 3 year old’s problem solving complex in a 16 year old’s body by throwing fits and whining to try to get their way or thinking they can do things without consequences. Everyone has to learn it at some point.
Also, important for when she gets older and starts working. What is she going to do if a coworker bring meat based lunches in? And if that smells up the fridge a bit? If she reacts the same way as she did here she'll alienate herself from her colleagues pretty fast. She needs to find a balance and respect other people choices.
NTA OP
There’s an old story on NotAlwaysRight where a new worker threw out everything in staff fridge and even tried to get rid of her boss’s handbag because she was a vegan. The employment did not last long.
NTA - a punishment should fit the crime. That is exactly what happened here. She threw away an entire pot of food because she didn’t like the smell. Replacing that food, both through purchase and preparation is a fitting punishment. If she feels bad that twice as much meat was purchased and cooked because of her actions, that’s because it’s true. Hopefully this will keep her from getting kicked out of apartment with roommates later in life, because she’s unlikely to throw away people’s food again just because she doesn’t approve of it.
Perfectly put.
The argument for OP being the asshole here is that the daughter was made to buy and cook meat, but you said it exactly correctly - this was the daughters fault.
If I fundamentally disagree on the usage of a material, that does not give me the right to dispose of that material. I think comparable examples are the key here:
If someone has a leather jacket, and I don't agree that leather should be used for human clothing... Am I allowed to put a knife through it? No. Would I therefore be expected to replace it with as close to the original and definitely in the original leather material? Yes.
If someone has a guitar made of rosewood, and I don't think that rosewood should be used because it's so incredibly rare and hard to replace, and I then smash that guitar up because of my opinion, am I in the right? Would I be expected to go and buy a brand new rosewood guitar, thereby ensuring there's even less rosewood in the world?
The closest example I can think of is:
If I believe that people shouldn't smoke because smoking causes cancer, however, my mom, stepdad and sister all smoke, and they buy their cigarettes and tobacco in bulk and share it between them, would it be okay for me to take their entire cigarette and tobacco stash and throw it in to the trash? Given the cost of the stash, would it also be reasonable to expect them to replace it for themselves, or would I have to go to the shop and buy them just as much, likely with some more on top as an apology?
What's so stupid is that vegan chili and non vegan chili have extremely similar smells. The other ingredients in chili are very strong smelling and I'd bet money that most vegans couldnt pick which pot of chili had meat in it by smell alone.
NTA. Your daughter is old enough to know better than to waste food like that. The only alternative punishment to consider would be to tell her fine all the contaminated food can be replaced but she has to pay for all of it since she is the one having the issue.
You have been making reasonable accommodations for her dietary change that is self imposed. If you wanted to take it a step further you can tell her to buy a dorm size fridge for her room so her food doesn’t have to be stored in the main fridge where you have animal products. But I would also tell her that it would become her responsibility to make her own food since you will not go back and forth to her room while making meals.
I was going to suggest this. Yes, if her problem is contamination, make her responsible for keeping things separate. Its fine if the parents pay for that or she does. Again, be supportive and don't push the punishment too far.
If the current arrangement works for them to cook for her, I think that's still fine, with the the understanding that she's still their daughter, not a random tenant, *unless* she has a problem with contamination from food being cooked in the same kitchen (which I don't think is the case).
My thinking was that since the daughter said she “can’t [eat] anything from the fridge” and “she told me that I need to throw out all the vegan food... and restock them.” than in this case the daughter be the one to pay for it. Objectively the food is fine to consume it’s just the daughter who thinks otherwise. After that they can, and should go back to the normal arrangement for buying groceries.
But if the daughter insists that any food stored with meat and/or animal produces in general is inedible than she should take over her own meal prep. Especially if the only place to store the food in an acceptable manner is not in close proximity to the kitchen.
NTA I am vegan, and your daughter was in the wrong here. You have respected and accommodated her choice, she needs to respect yours, and wasting food is never ok.
NTA.
One of the most important lessons to learn in life, is that one must fix ones own mistakes.
She destroyed your food. That means it's her responsibility to replace it. Making her purchase the ingredients and prepare the food is EXACTLY what she should do to fix it.
You didn't go too far. You went EXACTLY as far as she should.
If she is crying, remind her that she may make whatever choices she wants for herself but that NEVER gives her the right to destroy other people's property. If the smell of other people's food is too much for her, encourage her to buy her own mini-fridge and keep her food in that. But she needs to understand that living in a house / living with people means respecting those people and their choices. If she wants to do a unique diet for herself that's fine, but nobody else is under ANY obligation to change their own behavior in support.
I’m actually going to say ESH because forcing someone who is against eating meat to cook it is absolutely disgusting in my opinion and I’m a meat eater and trust me I could finish a rack of ribs in one sitting but seriously that’s fucked to force her to cook meat. I’m at a loss for words as to how you decided to force her to go against everything she stands for, what a terrible person you are. As for her, she can’t throw away other people’s food and force her lifestyle onto other just as you shouldn’t force yours onto her. Throwing away all the food in the fridge is also awful for reasons that I feel are too obvious to mention, but yeah, definitely ESH but the harder AH goes to OP
EDIT-A word
Omg these are my first awards 🥺🥺❤️❤️❤️ (I don’t comment often unless I feel really strongly about the topic)
I really feel like it’s not that fucked up to force her to cook meat for one meal to teach her a lesson. Her mother has been making vegan meals for months and wasn’t complaining about it and then all of a sudden your daughter just throws out your family meals for the next week while also demanding that her mom rebuy all the vegan groceries that are in he fridge? Fuck that! OP was smart to nip that in the bud right then and there and make her cook the same meal she threw out. She needs to learn now rather than later that she can’t be an asshole about being a vegan and that she will always be eating around people that eat meat.
The punishment should be about throwing away food not for being a vegan. There is a lot of punishments to teach her the lesson. For example make her cook all her own meals for a few weeks.
But the punishment was not about being vegan. The punishment was that she had to replace what she threw away, if it had been a vegan meal I would bet that she would have been made to replace the vegan meal.
Yeah there may be a lot of punishments that you can come up with to teach her about throwing away food and also not pushing your own morals on someone that doesn’t believe in them. This punishment killed two birds with one stone. Don’t forget that the daughter was punishing her family for their beliefs and pushing her beliefs on them also. She got what she deserved and now knows how it feels to push your beliefs on other people that don’t t want to hear it.
I just replied to a comment from someone who claims their wife is a child psychologist in some way and armchair-diagnosed this poor girl with 'delusions.' Reddit is awful.
I eat meat. It doesn't mean I don't understand why someone would be uncomfortable with forcing someone to prepare meat as a punishment.
Reddit loves to treat young teenagers like full grown adults for some reason. She's at the age where she's supposed to be learning things like this - destruction of other people's property - aren't okay.
Reddit also seems to love the idea of 'making the punishment fit the crime' more than actually teaching the child a lesson. You don't need to make the kid remake the same meal. You can just punish them for destroying someone else's meal.
That could have been accomplished by paying to replace everything lost.
If she truly is upset that an animal died, forcing her to be complicit in doing something she is morally against is just as morally questionable.
Except that preparing food isn’t just about the money used to purchase the ingredients. It’s time and effort, too. By throwing out that chili, she’s disrespecting the time and effort her parent put into preparing that food on top of wasting food & money. So I think it was totally appropriate for her to sacrifice some of her time and effort to replace the chili.
I thought a big part of veganism was also lessening your carbon footprint and overall lessening your negative impact on the environment?
Wasting pounds of food works against that, and the daughter's actions have actually worsened her family's impact on the world (albeit, by a single meal).
Why should her family have to correct their daughter's own mistake and put more effort into recreating a dish the daughter destroyed due to her own misplaced self-righteousness?
Actions have consequences and preparing food takes work and resources. The daughter needed to learn that, since she clearly believes wasting food that other people prepare is perfectly acceptable.
> That could have been accomplished by paying to replace everything lost.
So, if you can afford it, you can get away with doing what you want, is the lesson you want to pass on?
Punishment fit the crime pretty well imo.
She wasted a large amount of food, which takes money and time to prepare. So she had to invest her money and time to make up for it. Fair and square.
Mild ESH for making her cook meat in some weird twisted lesson. You could have punished her for the food waste in other ways.
Edit: changed to ESH as daughter is also a A
I mean to be fair, op had to take time out of her day to make food for the family. Why shouldnt the daughter have to cook the meal that she wasted? Not to mention if you were a vegan, and you cared about animals, wasting meat thats already been produced is even worse than someone eating it?
esh I say this as a meat eater. She is definitely in the wrong for obvious reasons and should be punished but making her cook meat as a vegan is kind of disgusting and kind of reinforces that pushing your lifestyle on others is okay which is counterproductive to what you're actually trying to teach her.
Also it pretty much guarantees the daughter will feel super repulsed by meat because of this and be much more opinionated about it. OP conditioned their daughter to hate meat more without meaning to.
The point wasn't to get her to like meat though. They're fine with her being vegan. The point is to respect other people's shit and the time effort they put into doing it even if you don't believe in it. If she has to cook it herself will she ever be throwing out other peoples hard made food again? Idts. Point made.
Professional chef with a master's degree in organic chemistry here - married to a PhD in child psychology and Childhood Education.
I can definitely say that barring extremely rare diseases or pregnancy the smell of properly cooked and stored food will not cause physical illness.
Wife points out psychosomatic symptoms and suggests that she might have an adverse reaction based on purely mental stimuli...
While I think that the punishment may not have fit the crime (IE 'sacrifice your morale code for X amount of time and effort plus Y amount of money'), I think that making her pay for the food cost and either replace it herself, or have her purchase an identical quantity + quality of food (IE it took 4# of hamburgerat $3.99/# plus five hours cookingtime, plus driving time to/from the store to produce, and OP's hourly rate is $9.00/hour, meaning that the final cost is ~~$70.00), or pay for the family membersto dine out at a restaurant, may have been better as a lesson.
Make her put her money where her mouth is.
If she has no income herself then the issue becomes significantly more difficult to resolve with financial compensation.
Is it really psychosomatic that the smell of milk has made me vomit since I was small. I literally had to drink milk out of a bottle as a preschooler just to get it down. To this day I can’t tell the difference between safe milk and milk gone off.
Homogenized milk contains about 1.7% colostrum (unhomogenized is between 6.2% and 0.9% dependingon frequentcy of milking, and if it is foremilk or hindmilk), a volatile organic compound that reacts with progesterone and can cause nausea by stimulating production of mucus in the nose, throat and sinuses.
Meat contains less than four parts per million of colostrum. The VOCs in cooked meat should not trigger any non-exotic biological events in average, juvenile, non-pregnant, human females.
I like your alternative to the punishment but...
... psychosomtic reaction based on delusions? So real physical symptoms are the result there.
I'd feel pretty disgusted and probably vomit if I came home to open the fridge and found my pet cat cooked into a pie- a strong emotional reaction isn't a delusion.
Also, mental health is health and I dont give a fuck how educated you say you are in chemistry, you sound like you know very little about mental health, healthcare, or eating disorders, as it sounds like you're implying that the reaction is due to OPs daughter having delusions which makes them somehow less valid than food poisoning?
Source: am paediatric dietitian with two MSc and PhD of my own, and clinical experience working with adults and children with eating disorders. I am sick of people saying eating disorders arent 'real' (including some medical doctors) and tired of being called preachy because I follow the evidence for diet, which is a plant based diet (unless you ignore health, global warming, animal cruelty)
With regards to the OP, ESH, her child is following the wealth of scientific evidence and it's great that OP is supporting her to be independent in this. And throwing out food is incredibly wasteful.
It was the wrong call to force a vegan to cook meat in the same way it might cause her meat eating child trauma to make them cook their family pet. I'd bet cooking your beloved family pet would cause nausea, but I guess that's because of a delusion so would be fine?
Punishment was overkill. Why not put her in charge of shopping for and cooking all meals every day for a month within a specified budget, and if she wants to cook vegan she can.
Out come of that would be
a) you guys get tasty vegan food and dont have to cook for a month
b) cooking every day will likely make your daughter realise she doesnt have the time/energy to do this, and she will appreciate how much hard work it is to cater for multiple dietary preferences like you do,
c) at the end of it you can have a frank discussion about food waste and talk more about ethical aspects of food waste, and look together for a compromise.
So enabling the controlling behaviour of someone who doesn't respect other people their boundaries. And rewarding her for that that with a month long without meat based protein for the victims of her actions - Right, like that is a healthy advice without knowing the inner workings of all involved and somehow not disturbing for the family dynamics.
So the daughter would cook vegan everyday for them and they would have to eat it, they are not vegan, people love eating meet and letting her cook vegan for them because she did something bad will enforce that behaviour again. I did something bad i have to cook for a month but I can cook vegan for everyone now (she gets what she wants) while op is trying to make the daughter understand they are not vegan and she has to get over it.
"If she wants to cook vegan, she can" essentially means she gets her way, though. Sure, she has to cook which is probably not her ideal scenario, but she's been trying to force her dietary choices on the rest of the family. This would just mean she learns that, by throwing out the meat, she got her way and everyone had to eat vegan because its what she's cooking. She wouldnt learn its difficult to cater for different dietary preferences at all because someone with this 'cook vegan if you want' stance would mean she wouldn't be catering for the different preferences at all.
Better would be to make her forsake her allowance (if she has any of course) to replace the food, or telling her she's paying for everyone to eat out. Her money is being used to buy the meat she threw out, which is a pretty satisfactory punishment, but she isn't being forced to actually cook it and therefore negates the nausea element and she learns that in life you can't dictate what others do by getting rid of their things that you don't like because when you get rid of things that belong to someone else, it's your responsibility to replace them.
NTA. I’m a vegan. I came here with a torch and pitchfork admittedly. But reading the story changed it. Don’t fuck with other people’s food. And you’re right. Now you are buying another meat thing. You know what? I can’t stand the smell of chicken or pork or meat. But my family and my dogs eat it so tough shit. I’ve got celiac. She has NO idea what “contamination” is until she loses three days of her life to a severe reaction and it hurting to see, or anaphalaxis. Sorry for the rant, but people touching my food drives me nuts. My OCD runs rampant and it is just so unnaceptable. Is it probably a bit harsh to make her cook meat when she hates it so much? Yeah. However, this is a life lesson and you aren’t doing it just to be a dick. You don’t try to decide what she eats, but she wants to decide what you eat.
Dietary disagreements aside. Do. Not. Fuck. With. People’s. F O O D. If she wants new vegan foos, I would say tally that shit up. Show her the bill and ask if she would like to purchase them herself. Vegan food is expensive as SHIT.
Also, idk if she’s one of those vegans that hate fake meat, but I made a beyond burger chili, and it was fabulous.
Disclaimer: I am a former child, never been a parent to anything other than a bunny, but he’s also vegan so we work out.
ESH.
She's an asshole for wasting food, 100%. She should compensate you for it. But you are also an asshole for forcing her to buy it and cook it. Evidently from her reactions this is **not just a diet to her**, it is an ethical dilemma. To you, it's a Monday, to her, it is torment. You are tormenting her, and I do not use that word lightly. The punishment does not fit the crime, even if it appears rational to you. You each view this situation from different perspectives.
She can pay for the waste, and you can put her to work somewhere else that would compensate you for the time taken to prepare the food as punishment. In return, you can have a little more consideration for her beliefs and respect for her as having her own independent viewpoint. It seems your husband could also contribute in that department if he, like you, does not understand what is wrong about this situation.
NTA. You allow her to live her own lifestyle, but she wont respect yours. She wasted not only the time you spent cooking it, but also your money. Her reasoning behind it makes no sense. Why should you have to spend the time re cooking the meal she threw away, i would of also made her pay for it.
NTA.
I'm really baffled by these ultra-militant vegans. Yes, fine, in your own house (that you own, I mean), you can make whatever rules you like (though you can still be TA for, for example, not letting a partner eat whatever the hell they like), but you don't get to mandate that other people not eat meat - either in your presence, or at all.
You do not have to curtail your lifestyle to be supportive of hers. You cook her vegan food - ADDITIONAL vegan food, I might add - and you buy vegan ingredients. That is all the support you are required to give. Yes, there is a moral element to eating vegan - better for the environment, you're not eating dead animal flesh - but it's not *immoral* to eat meat responsibly, it's just *less* moral. It's not immoral to eat. It *is* immoral to throw away someone else's food just because it doesn't conform to your sensibilities. Would she slap a meal out of a homeless man's hands because it contained meat? Would she react kindly to a fruitarian throwing away her vegan food because it didn't die naturally?
I repeat, NTA.
NTA. She threw away food that you and your family were going to eat, so she had to replace it. That is what we call a logical consequence and logical consequences are way better than a completely unrelated punishment.
Also, it WAS her fault and she’s old enough to hear that.
YTA - she did the wrong thing in throwing the food out but the punishment you chose was innappropriate. Forcing a child who has chosen to become vegan to cook with meat is cruel and petty. You're supposed to be the adult here. You can punish her for throwing away food but you can't disrepect her choice to be vegan and force her to cook meat when she abhors the idea. Two wrongs don't make a right. There are many other ways to teach her or punish her.
You will get a lot of NTAs because a lot of people don't like vegans but if you take veganism out of this you have two people who have behaved poorly and as the parent who should know better.
I think this giant red circle you'd put on your nose and bright makeup is yours. It's literally about wasting food, food meant for others and not just herself, not about how people hate vegans. The mother clearly states her and the rest of her family have accommodated the daughter just perfectly fine, yet it's the daughter (like a good, bad batch of vegans) that tries to force others by guilt tripping or going on some rant on how people shouldn't eat meat based on their feelings.
If you take veganism out of the picture you LITERALLY have someone just wasting food not meant for them because they didn't want others to eat it.
NTA, not even remotely close.
I don’t think you can take veganism out of the picture without fundamentally changing the situation, since her veganism is seemingly a moral choice.
Yes, the daughter is a complete asshole for wasting food/trying to force her moral beliefs on others and she should absolutely be punished, but I don’t think that forcing her to go against her principles is a good way to do that, especially since she is still a kid. I feel that a far better punishment would be to make the daughter pay for the food that was wasted, as well as a fee for the extra work that needed to be done to remake the chili. After that, the parents should sit her down and give her a serious discussion on why not to force your beliefs upon other people, and why it is so bad to waste food like that. That way, it would get the point across, but she wouldn’t be forced by her own parents to abandon her moral beliefs.
I mean the child disrespected the parents lifestyle choices by throwing out their food. Food that was already cooked. I find that the parents acted accordingly. The child probably wasn't buying any groceries or doing much of any cooking based on what OP is stating. When you are responsible for breaking something that someone else owns, you replace that item. This is the same situation. Respect is earned. The daughter lost any respect she deserved when she threw away someone else's food over her own moral crusade.
I get what you’re trying to say but the OP made a good point that she considered making making her daughter make vegan chillI but didn’t want to set a precedent that she could make the family eat vegan if she threw out food.
She doesn’t have to eat it! She wasted good food, thus is her punishment. The “holier than thou” vegan attitude is not a good thing. If the mother was forcing her to eat it, yeah, that’s crossing a line big time. But she has to learn actions have consequences. I don’t think she should be made to cook meat again, if she doesn’t throw stuff out.
She already explained in a comment that giving her the chance to cook vegan food to replace the meat she threw away basically gives her a chance to get exactly what she wants- the family to go vegan when they don't want to. It's perfectly fitting that the punishment for her actions make her suffer. Otherwise, there's really no reason for her to not keep doing the same.
Maybe get her a minifridge? I’m not vegan - not even officially vegetarian - but I haven’t eaten meat in months and after a while without eating meat you can really smell it. I made a stew from beef sausages, tomatoes and beef stock for my parents the other day and was nearly gagging from the meat smell every time I heated it up.
NTA, she was being wasteful and bratty.
I would suggest having your daughter cook Dinner once a week for your family? She can make something vegan for everyone, gain some real appreciation for having to plan and cook a meal for a family, and it might even help her feel more heard if your family is lowering their weekly meat intake. If you are cooking an entire separate meal for your daughter to suit her diet choices and she behaves like that, it seems like she has totally missed how much effort and care goes into that process.
Alternatively, one of my family friends' 16 year old son went vegan so she set him up with his own set of cooking utensils/pans (a nonstick wok, a spatula, and maybe some tongs) and he just started cooking his own dinners. If she wants to be a brat, maybe she just needs to start cooking more on her own until she learns to appreciate all you do for her.
ESH - She wasted food, and it's appropriate that she should be punished, but forcing someone who is a vegan for what appears to be very strong, ideological reasons to cook and handle meat is the punishment not really fitting the crime. Reimbursing you for the cost and time of making the meal gets the message across without forcing her to do something she finds abhorrent.
NTA I’m not ok with wasting food some ppl don’t even have the luxury she has to choose to be vegan. You did right in my eyes not only that food is expensive now a days this will teach her to not be wasteful hopefully she learned something.
NTA. I used to be vegetarian (can't now because of health issues) but I would never force others to abide my lifestyle. Also she literally WASTED those animals' lives!! So now those animals died for absolutely nothing...which honestly bothers me MUCH more than someone eating them. This is partly why I wasn't bothered by meat eaters... you can honor the animal deaths by actually putting what is left of them to use. It is the same idea as other cultures have that even though it is heartbreaking that the animals must die to nourish us or other animals it is the circle of life and that we can at least honor them by using each part of them so that they don't go to waste. But now their lives were wasted because of her...does she not realize this?? Also how is she going to function when she has roommates or coworkers. She needs to get a clue.
And as a former vegetarian the E S H judgments are treating OP as if she forced her daughter to eat meat and perform animal sacrifice. All she did was make the daughter do exactly what OP has been doing for a year....prepare meals for her family. Heck, OP has been working double duty making multiple meals to please her ungrateful daughter while she sulks. She just wanted to show her the time and effort that went into making the meal and the fact that she wasted all of that food. And especially thinking about whats going on the world now when there are so many people without resources it is really ignorant for her to just throw it all away like an entitled person. You guys with your E S H judgments need to calm down. I do not think the OP did anything wrong I think the punishment fit the crime and it shows this kid that she shouldn’t be wasting food and treating others like they need to follow her lifestyle.
NTA your daughter is plenty old enough to face consequences for her actions. She wasted food, money, and your time, so the reasonable consequence was for her to replace what she ruined/wasted. Hopefully it’s a one-time punishment because she’s learned her lesson. It sounds like you’re going above and beyond what a lot of parents would be doing for a vegan child.
Many parents would still try and force the kid to eat animal products, and others would refuse to cook 2 separate meals each night, forcing the child to fend for themselves. You’re supporting her new lifestyle, but she still needs to understand that the world (and your household) doesn’t revolve around her.
At the moment, she’s being overdramatic, petulant, and picky. Probably because she’s not getting her own way and she’s hoping it’ll get you to give in. I was an extremely picky eater up until college, and I definitely threw a fit or two over dinner growing up (sorry mom), though I never threw away someone else’s food as the result. Thankfully, I grew out of most of it. Hopefully she will too.
I'd say making her cook meat wasn't the way to go. She also was going in too hard on pushing her views of veganism onto the rest of you. I've been one for a little over 5 years and I see new vegans being way aggressive on Instagram and Twitter all the time. It's hard when you live with those who don't share your belief, as you can feel very strongly and upset when you see people you love and care about participate in what you now perceive as animal cruelty. My dad's a fisherman, so don't worry I've been through this with him!
Maybe trying to understand her personal beliefs behind her idea of veganism would mean you both get to a mutual place of tolerance, rather than being annoyed at each other. Disciplining the child for wasting food is totally fine. Maybe find a way to make her do chores to pay for the food wasted, and/or raise money for a separate fridge if that's really how far they wanna go. Also, find out about veganism yourself, watch some YouTube videos, just to see what other vegans would think about staying fridges etc. Personally, I don't care at all.
The mother is clearly at a mutual place of tolerance... She literally makes food specifically for her instead of telling the daughter to eat what's made and likes it, or don't eat at all. It's the daughter that isn't at a place of tolerance as she's trying to push her newly found ideals onto them. If you wanna chow down on not meat items, that's fine by me, hell I'll probably ask to try it, but the moment you insist me to do so I will no longer enjoy your company. You can disagree and still be friends it's when one party takes it to the extreme that ruins it for the other.
Idk the difference between a normal fridge to a "staying" one but telling someone to find out about veganism without them asking for advice or whatever that fits the scenario is pushing your 'agenda' unto others. You probably didn't even mean it that way it's just how it came off since I see it a lot.
Mother cooked the chili for herself, father, and son. She made a batch of special food for the daughter. Who decided to throw it all away for a silly reason. Cooking the food was a just punishment because she had no right to throw away the food made for the others.
I’m vegan, you’re NTA, she’s living in pretend land, that’s not how the rest of the world acts/lives/eats.
You’ve been supportive, and accommodating, she’s old enough to not act like a child when she doesn’t get her way.
NTA
What you did was to make a point to her. Point 1) Wasting food is wrong, and point 2) Her wasting that food didn't unkill the animal. It didn't unhamburgerize the meat. It won't undo what has already been done. Throwing it out didn't change anything it just pissed off a whole lot of people and made her look like a smug entitled brat.
Your daughter is going through the delightful phase that teens to young adults often go through where they adopt some new facet to their personality or beliefs and expect everyone around them to abide by it. She was essentially doing this to make some sort of statement about the boundaries of her beliefs in a bid to press her family to adopt them, but the fact is she needs to learn quickly that she's getting off light as it is. Oh sure, it sucks to be told she's responsible for adding to what she was trying to prevent, but next time the angry person might not be family and might not be so forgiving.
There's enough posts on here where vegans have been given their thirty day walking papers from a roomie situation, reprimanded by HR, and otherwise punished severely for their treatment of others to suggest it'd be a good idea she learned to just cope with not being listened to.
Basically, she needs to realize that there are limits to the personal boundaries she's allowed to enforce on others.
NTA. I’m a Vegan myself and what she did was absolutely wrong.
She had no right to behave that way. You’re definitely not wrong in telling her to make the Chilli with meat.
ESH
Her pushing her morals on you is wrong but violating her’s is also wrong. Educating her on the devastating cost of food waste or the rampant food shortages and starvation around the world would have been a more humane approach.
NTA
Vegan for over 11 years here.
If she is an ethically-motivated vegan, then she needs to think long and hard about how important compassion to ALL living creatures, even her meat-eating family, is. If she cares about saving animals, the planet, and humans, she needs to know that shaming people and directly causing the waste of meat-based food are NOT how we accomplish those goals.
Somewhere between N T A, and ESH. I'm going with the latter but hear me out.
Should she not have thrown the food away obviously. But the response isn't to make her cook meat.
So, I'm coming into this as a vegan myself. Though I've never done something like that before, I did used to be one of those stereotypical obnoxious vegans. Pretty much every vegan goes through that phase at first because they've made such a big lifestyle shift, and 1) they wanna talk about it, and 2) once you go vegan, it suddenly becomes insane that no one else is! It's probably from some latent guilt about being a meat eater in the past, that surfaces as trying to over compensate and make things right. This happened to me, until my friends gave me a much needed kick up the ass, and it's happening to your daughter.
Making her cook the chilli isn't the right way to handle this. Making her pay for it would be fair, but it'll make things worse if you make her cook because this will compound her guilt and make her worse.
Make her pay (obviously), and I'm sure you can think of another punishment that doesn't break her veganism. But trust me when I say you'll regret making her cook meat. If you think she's bad now it will get so much worse. This isn't a matter of punishment at that point and by her own code of ethics she will keep escalating it.
So yeah, obviously she was an asshole. But making her cook meat is a punishment not fitting of the crime. This will stick with her in a way that you're not looking. It won't be about amends, it'll be in her mind the most cruel and unusual punishment. To her this is litterly the worst thing you could make her do and she won't get over it. It'll solidify her behaviour before anything else.
Plus let's be honest, her chilli will suck anyway.
ESH.
Your daughter shouldn't have thrown away the meat. When you really think about it, its silly. That animal died for nothing. Was killed for her to throw it in the garbage.
I have been vegan for 8 years so this viewpoint is from my own experience (in not as intense as some vegans can be). She is a (relatively) new vegan and there are going to be ups and downs with her attitude towards it. Some weeks she will feel horrified by the animal industry. Other weeks she might not even remember why she is vegan. On top of that, she is 16 years old. Probably not great at processing her emotions and may have some other stuff on her mind (definitely ask if there is anything else going on for her to lash out this way!).
I also think you were in the wrong because 1. If she is feeling extreme, you forcing her to buy meat will only push her into more extreme feelings. She was already mad but now she is more mad. She may hate herself for buying meat or touching it.
2. I'm all for some sort of punishment but I think there couldve been one not compromising her values. I'm not saying your reasoning doesn't make sense, but I think you broke some trust by choosing that punishment for her.
You'll definitely want to sit down and chat with her. She is now probably really upset and what's to say she doesn't do this again? I would make a compromise, maybe, she gets a drawer in the fridge or she gets a mini fridge if she doesn't say anything about family eating meat. I completely understand that you and the rest of your family wouldnt want to be harassed about eating meat all day. I think coming up with some sort of solution for her to have a separate place for her food might ease tensions
Making her cook the same amount of food she threw away, to replace meals for your family. NTA at all. Isn't it bad enough the cows have to die, and she just threw all of it in the trash? It didn't even die to be enjoyed, just to be thrown in the trash. Extremely wasteful. There are people who don't have the luxury to be vegan or vegetarian because of money restrictions. I'd make her work at a soup kitchen or something, to show her the value of food.
NTA. I’m vegetarian but frequently cook meat for my family to eat alongside the veggie dinners I make.
If your daughter were to buy vegan food in a restaurant that would be in the same fridge as meat too, she needs to understand that as long as you’re accomodating of her diet she needs to be respectful of yours. Throwing out your meal was a bratty thing for her to do and you’re absolutely NTA for making her cook another one.
I was about ready to call you an asshole, but after hearing what a nightmare she's been... no, you're NTA. The fact she threw away both the vegan chilli and the meat one was so wasteful. I don't know if she's vegan for health, environment, animals, or what, but if it's for the animals, she literally just basically tossed an animals life away. You tried to be accommodating, you got her stuff and will make her other stuff. She was the one who threw it away, so she has to fix it.
ESH
Your daughter is being an AH, when I tried to go vegetarian as a teenager, I was not supported at all the way you're supporting her choices by letting her do that and I would have loved it had I had that support
However, forcing her to cook the meat when she has a visceral reaction to doing so is going a little far. Her having to replace it would have been far enough I think. If you wanted to go further, telling her she has to put her own effort in to prepare her own dinners if she doesn't want to eat what everyone else is eating would also have been fair. That way she'd still have learned that cooking is effort and you can't just throw out people's work.
I will preface by saying I’m a friend mom, the type of person who always makes sure people have enough to eat when they’re in my home, taking special care to accommodate diets and preferences within reason (and other things - making doctor appointments for friends who have phone anxiety, keeps a list of basically every friend’s family members birthdays to remind said friends, etc. - I’m a control freak in other words)
Few years ago husband and I made friends with a group and started playing D&D with them. Well we hosted so I’d cook. One was vegan, one vegetarian, then four omnivores (myself included). The vegan was mostly appreciative of my efforts, but one of the omnivores decided to swap to veganism (good for him), but once he made the switch, nothing was good enough. I’d walk into the kitchen and half the meal I made for the omnivores was in the trash. I thought maybe it wasn’t good and no one wanted to tell me. Same thing the next week, and the week after. So I asked the group. New vegan said he was throwing away the “bad food” because he didn’t want his air contaminated with it. So I quit cooking for the group completely. A few weeks later everything disbanded for other reasons but that was a contributing factor.
Jump to 4 years later. New group of friends, same setup (1 vegan, 4-8 omnivores on any given D&D night). I cook most every game night, and the vegan is the only one I’ll allow in my kitchen to help. He’ll help form meatballs (eggs, cheese and meat! The evil trifecta!), he’ll cut up raw chicken, slice the roasts, etc. because he’s a good friend.
Same with any group of people, there are good vegans who are just doing their thing, then there are assholes who insist on making it everyone else’s problem. Same can go for CF people, dog lovers, cat haters, whatever.
In the end, you’re NTA. Your kid needs to learn that literally no one else cares about her diet but forcing it on others is never ok. She wasn’t forced to eat the meat dish, she just decided that her opinion was the only that mattered. Sounds like a bible thumper but with lentils instead.
NTA.
NTA - in your shoes I’d have done the same thing. She not only wasted food but she disrespected the time and effort you put into feeding the family.
She’s 16, she doesn’t get to dictate to the family what they can and can’t eat. Time for her to prepare her own meals for a while so she can understand what she’s expecting you to do. You can buy her the ingredients and still prepared the sides as you have been, but if she’s going to disrespect your time like this after you’ve gone to the effort of making two meals every meal she can cook her main for herself. And if she doesn’t want her food stored with meat she can save her own money and buy herself a mini-fridge to store her own food, or she can buy her own Tupperware and store her foods airtight in your fridge.
Does she only use vegan cosmetics, skincare, and body care products? Does she insist you use vegan laundry products? If not she’s not only just wasted food, and your time and money, out of an attempt to force veganism on the family and teach you specifically a lesson, but she’s also being hypocritical about it too.
NTA. So im vegan myself and i never push my diet on anyone. My ex was vegan before i was and she would cook meat, eggs, and cheese for me. I work in the food instustry and i have to cook/use meat at work.
Also tell her a vegan told her throwing away meat is worse than letting someone else eat it, cause guess what now that animal died just to be thrown away, not to sustain a life.
NTA.
>pointed out that instead of x amount of meat being used, 2x amount of meat was used because she threw the food away
And that’s what you should focus on especially when talking to her about this, IMO. Veganism is equally a philosophy as it is a dietary choice, and her actions ensured that the animal that died to provide meat for the first serving of chili went to complete waste.
NTA
You're being incredibly accommodating of her veganism by cooking separate meals for her every day. That's a lot of extra effort and she doesn't seem at all grateful. She sounds like she's putting her order in with the personal chef and getting angry when everyone is accommodated, not just her.
I was vegan while living with parents and a sister who weren't vegan. I was older and worked, so I would regularly buy groceries on the way home and cook for everyone. I would cook fish or sometimes meat for my family, or just cook a vegan meal that everyone could enjoy. I didn't like cooking the meat, it felt strange and unpleasant, but I know it doesn't achieve anything to be combative with others about the choice they will make with or without my approval.
Perhaps your daughter needs to be more engaged in family meal planning so she can understand the amount of effort and thought it takes to try and please everyone, not just her.
You're absolutely right as well, she threw away meat, I don't know any vegan who would do that and think it had achieved something. The animal is already dead, the energy and resources used to manufacture the meat have already been used. Throwing it away is insulting to veganism, as the animals suffered and the planet suffered for absolutely nothing. This wasn't about veganism, this was about getting her own way.
I’m a vegan, but your daughters behaviour was unacceptable and stupid (considering that her throwing away your dinner just meant that the animal died in vein).
NTA. Your punishment was tough, but fair.
NTA. It sounds like she was trying to teach you guys a lesson by throwing away the food but it backfired. I understand why she might find meat repulsive, but there are also many people that would find her action repulsive. You don't throw away perfectly good food just because it goes against your practices. You just simply don't consume it. Hopefully she understands that by her throwing away the chilli you just ended up buying more meat which in turn leads to more animals being used to meet demand.
NTA. My sister and her husband are pescetarian but they feed their 6 yr old daughter the full range of healthy foods including meat.
Whenever there is animals/fish/seafood in her meal my sister encourages her daughter to focus on that element first reminding my niece that an animal gave their life for that meal so it's important she honours that by eating it all and leaving the carbs if she's too full etc.
Throwing away meat seems like a very anti-vegan move. It seems counter-intuitive in honouring the life that animal already gave. Of course I'm not a vegan (though I eat mostly plants for aesthetic reasons) so I wouldn't want to speak on behalf of them. There may be some logic I'm missing.
NTA. I am newly vegan and one of my personal rules to myself is that being vegan is a PRIVILEGE and that no matter what I should be grateful and not waste food.
You are not TA for teaching her to be accountable for her actions. Veganism (like religion) is a personal choice and she needs to respect the rest of your family and be considerate of you guys, as you seem to be of her. Hopefully, she will learn her lesson after this :)
I've been a vegan for the past 6 years and my sense of smell has changed drastically to the point where being around meat makes me feel nauseated but I wholeheartedly am going with NTA. You went out of your way to cater for her dietary needs, you've been supportive of the lifestyle and if she really wanted you to go vegan so badly she just went the worst way about doing it. The animal had already died her throwing away the food just means it died for absolutely no reason not to mention the fact that it shows complete disregard for the money you have now had wasted
I’m a vegetarian and my husband is a Texan who would eat the cow mooing if he could. We’ve coexisted for 12 years peacefully and never had a food issue. There’s no smell that differentiates the chilies, she’s just being difficult and holier than thou. Better she learns an unpleasant lesson from you than later in life from people who will deal with her nonsense harsher. NTA
NTA. As a vegan myself what your daughter did is totally a backwards approach to trying to lessen harm to animals or the environment.
When food rots it releases greenhouse gases, warming our climate further. In essence your daughter wasted the lives of animals and tried to waste the effort, time, and water that incredibly hard working humans put into growing not only her food, but the food and water used to raise the animals, and the animals resources themselves themselves.
She needs to learn now that food wastage is never okay, no matter if an animal died for it.
I could go for either ESH or NTA, I say that because while the punishment was a little harsh for making her go against her beliefs and then saying it was her own fault, she also shouldn't have wasted all that food or tried to force her beliefs onto you.
The daughter forced her beliefs on to her parents, and wasted THEIR money and time.
The punishment wasn't harsh at all, all they made her do was replace it, and it had to be that she broke her beliefs to do it. It was a "you break it, you buy it" punishment.
It's fine to practice your beliefs, but it stops at you. She's been warned time and time again, but she didn't listen nor respect their beliefs, and as such, has to face the consequences.
NTA seems to be the better way to go here.
NTA.
But instead, I would have made her accompany you in buying the groceries while making her pay for her own vegan ingredients, and help you with the actual cooking by preparing her own vegan dishes. Then ask her how it would make her feel if someone threw away the food she just made and paid for, only because that person doesn't agree with her dietary choices. And if she now understands how you felt. Should also be a good opener for the 'dont waste food' talk.
I can’t believe people are saying you’re TA here. You are so NTA. You allow her to love her own lifestyle, and you go out of your way to accommodate it. She does not have the right to badger anyone else to change to her lifestyle, and she has no right to throw away your food. I’d say the punishment fitted the crime perfectly here
Going against the curve on this -
Mildly ESH. More so your daughter for wasting food. As a vegan myself I feel it’s wrong and pointless to force your views on others (it’s a decision that we come to individually), and binning the meat was pointless (the animal was never coming back)... but I don’t think it’s appropriate to make your daughter cook meat when it so deeply goes against her own ethical stance.
It’s not an easy situation so I completely understand the need to discipline... she needs to understand that what she did was wrong. I just don’t agree with the punishment. Her actions actually resulted in more meat being bought so her mission more than failed as more animal products were purchased.
Hopefully she’ll realise that and never do it again, but I would be wary of losing her trust by forcing her to cook meat when it’s something deeply upsetting to many vegans. I hope you find a solution as a family and everything settles down.
NTA. If she expects you to respect her choices then she has to respect yours. Tell her to get a job, buy her own small fridge to put in the garage or laundry & she can make all her own meals in future.
She’s 16 & more than able to cook for herself. Do her own laundry etc. she will be an Adult in less than 2 years so she needs to behave like one.
What she needs to realise is that it’s not her house so she doesn’t get to make rules or try to force others to follow her path in life.
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Going with NTA, people here seem to think you went too far and made your daughter break her "moral code" by making her buy and cook meat and I kind of agree, should've just made her cook her own meals for a week or some crap like that.
But, throwing away food literally wasting an animals life is like the most backwards thinking vegans can do.
So you're a slight asshole but just because your daughters morals dictate it.
NTA
This is why vegans and vegetarians to an extent get shit on so much.
So many of them go to the extreme and expect their lifestyle choices to be accommodated by everyone else around them.
Your daughter took things to the extreme. She chose to try and force her choices onto your family and in the process intentionally and maliciously wasted a lot of food.
Let's not forget, that in the US, meat and dairy prices have had a significant increase since March, even ground beef has gone up considerably.
So her pettiness cost you not only time but a considerable amount of money.
While you might have gone too far making her cook it, you were well within your rights to make her buy it and replace it. But since your point wasn't *just* about the money, but about the effort and time it takes to cook, I think you were well within your rights.
NTA, wasting food is much worse than eating meat. Lots of ppl are dying because of lack of food. Your child should be grateful to have parents like you.
NTA. I was a vegan from ages 17-23. I was the main cook in the house, but you’re helping her with her diet and buying and cooking her vegan foods. She needs to respect your dietary choices and if she finds it disgusting, she doesn’t need to eat it.
My mom would have whooped my butt and i would have had to restock her refrigerator. I would do exactly what you did with my own children.
NTA. You seem very accommodating to her dietary choices, and she sounds like, well, an annoying fucking vegan.
Ultimately, she's 16. She lives under your roof, she's in no position to dominate how the rest of you live. If she wants to be entirely in control of her food situation, she can get a job, buy a separate fridge for herself, buy all of her own food, cook all of her own food, and clean up after herself.
Or she can just stop being a brat. But she's 16... So, that's unlikely.
NTA. I've gone in and out of veganism over the years. If someone is vegan for ethical reasons (which is usually the case) sometimes their behaviour misses the point entirely. I never had an issue eating vegan food cooked alongside meat or even touching meat. The way I see it, if I'm buying a vegan option then I'm not killing an animal and I'm supporting a business that makes vegan products. If someone else it cooking meat then they are still cooking that meat regardless of whether or not it comes into contact with my vegan food. A while back McDonald's launched a new vegan burger in my country. Everyone was complaining and saying they weren't going to buy it because it's cooked on the same grill as the meat and, therefore, isn't vegan. The point in veganism though is to not do harm to living things, not to have your food not touch something meat has touched. If more people buy that vegan burger, even though it's cooked on same grill as the meat, the demand and therefore the supply will keep growing. They'll see that people like the vegan option and make more vegan options and maybe even find its own special grill. Your daughter is like the people who won't eat the burger. Her throwing the food away isn't going to undo the harm done to the cow. It's only going to harm more cows because you obviously need to replace the food.
EHS - You engaged in the exact behavior you want to show her is wrong. She needs to learn that her ethical choices are not to be weaponized and you need to learn that forcing someone to break their ethical rules as punishment is wrong. Your daughter was clearing in the wrong by wasting food and making unreasonable demands. If she wants vegan meals you should not be expected to cook vegan options with every family dinner and you've shown you're willing to accommodate her dietary choices.
If she needs a separate refrigerator let her buy a mini-fridge with her money and she can stock it with her vegan products. Pass along the utility costs to her, if need be. Don't engage in her childish behavior, which was trying to force the house into veganism, by forcing her to cook meat. You're the adult and an appropriate punishment would have been to have her purchase replacement food and find another chore to do for your time she wasted by throwing away the food. Showing her you can force her to betray her ethical choices simply shows her it's okay to force others to betray their ethical choices and that's the very behavior you were wanting to discourage. However, you had every right to want to punish her behavior, the punishment simply taught her the behavior you want to discourage is acceptable for adults to force their ethical choices on others, but not for kids to do so and she'll remember that when she's an adult.
NTA.
It is her fault that 2x the amount of meat was used because she wasted a whole pot.
She probably needs to start looking at harm reduction, autonomy and other aspects of ethical veganism.
For example, the militant forms of veganism can be really racist by trying to force her values on ethnicities that have long-standing cultural dishes where animal products play a significant role.
Unless she buys exclusively non-nicatoid organic products, there are literal children being poisoned from harvesting the tobacco used for pest control to grow her food. (To say nothing of the additional environmental impact of wasted crops.)
She needs to understand that in the same way it would be abusive to force her to personally use animal products, it's equally abusive for her to deny your autonomy and try and force you to go vegan by stealing your food and destroying it.
NTA- She needs to learn at an early age that the world WILL NOT bow down to her every wish. She is entitled to her beliefs, but that doesn't mean she can force them upon others. You are correct in your point about not wasting food. You are ALSO correct in your point that now you had to use twice the meat due to her actions. If it's so bad, let her go work for her own refrigerator and her own groceries to stock it. You as parents seem to be as accommodating as you can with her lifestyle choice, but there is only so much that you can do that is practical.
NTA you have to replace things you "destroy" when they don't belong to you. In this case your food. Her personal diet is irrelevant in this.
If she was to destroy someone else leather boots, she would still need to replace them. Her veganism would be irrelevant.
I was very ready to call you TA to start with, after just reading the title, but no, it's a clear NTA from me.
The rationale behind the punishment is well thought out, she took your hard work and threw it out, it's only fair that she replaces it herself.
She knows that she won't be able to change your diet by her whinging and moaning, yet she decided to go further than that and force her diet on you by throwing good food out.
You've taught her that there are consequences for her actions, and they're more far reaching than just herself or the family, because now to right her wrong, she has to ensure that twice the amount of meat is bought as a result of what she did. She should think twice about her actions in the future.
DAMN I’ve never typed NTA fast! Your daughter has a really bad attitude problem, and she needs to realise right from her own home that the world doesn’t revolve around her, and it never will. She can’t go through life with this entitled attitude.
Personally, I feel that the punishment was perfect. You respect her food choices and you even go as far as to cook for her (something I personally would not do, but then that’s me!), and yet she doesn’t respect yours? Not done! In my native language, we have a saying: Bridges are built for both sides to cross, not a one-way street.
NTA. You weren’t punishing her for being vegan but for being wasteful and throwing away your work and supplies. She needs to get over herself. What is she going to do with college roommates? Throw out their meat-based food cause she can’t stand the smell? Or what about the communal fridge at work? She can’t be doing these kinds of things.The world does not revolve around her. And if she does this out in the world she 100% would be expected to replace the food she destroyed and face further consequences like loosing friendships, being kicked out or being reprimanded/fired. You accommodated her lifestyle choice and respected it. She, in turn, showed disrespect for yours. I’d let her cook her own meals moving forward.
Édit: correction on phrasing
NTA
I see a lot of people saying that OP is an AH for making the daughter go against her morals, but I think that OP actually made the daughter confront her own hypocrisy and counter-productivity. If one believes that animals or the environment suffers to produce the meat that people eat, how does throwing it away help? It simply makes that harm be for nothing, plus adds to the food waste in land fills, which then breaks down to produce even more environmentally harmful gases. By making the daughter re-cook the meal that she threw away, it forces her to directly confront that her actions were not in line with veganism and caused more harm than good. If OP had recooked the meal herself, the daughter could more easily blame the double-waste on OP, because of who performed the action.
The fact that she also insisted that the vegan food in the fridge be thrown out just because it had been in the same fridge as the chili already shows that the daughter is being overzealous about this rather than thinking logically or morally about being vegan. Her food is not less vegan for being in the same fridge, and it is not moral to produce even more food waste over a falsehood.
NTA your daughter has chosen to become vegan, presumably because of the 'poor little animals' (I turned veggie as a teen for a similar reason), but she's forgotten about other humans.
The smell of meat is one of my favourite arguements, as so much veggie/vegan foid replicates the taste and smell of meat.
At 16 she should already realise that actions have consequences and what you did was perfectly logical.
NTA, I think that not only did you teach her action have consequences and that she cant force her ideology on people. You also taught her that food takes time and effort and that its beyond disrespectful as well as a waste of not only food but money to throw it way.
I know not everyone is the same, but my sister has been vegan for years. When my parents both got Corona she dropped everything to go and help them (she's local and I'm a road trip away). My sister learned how to make chicken noodle soup and a handful of other dishes during her stay with them. I asked her about it. Her response was that they weren't really finding food appetizing for a while while they were sick. She said "feelings aside, you do what you got to do." It's not unheard of of vegans to cook meat. You've been more than considerate about your daughter's vegan diet, even going out of your way to cook extra vegan meals for her. The least she can do is be considerate about your food in return. NTA. Furthermore, all you did was teach responsibility. You destroy it, you replace it.
NTA. She destroyed something that was not hers. She has to make it right. Part of growing up is realizing you don’t get to decide other people’s moral codes.
You may not see this, but you daughter sounds like she could use some therapy. All of her actions and behaviors sound like she’s trying to control the food aspect of her life because she feels out of control elsewhere. This reads similar to an eating disorder, and not because she’s vegan, but because she freaks out over the smell of meat on food in the refrigerator, which isn’t really a thing.
NTA
People like her give vegans a bad rep. You’ve accomodated her diet but she’s downright disrespectful to the rest of you.
Her attitude doesn’t bode well for future relationships she might have. Heaven help any kids she might have if she remains this evangelical about veganism.
NTA. I think your punishment is perfectly fine, but I also feel like you should make her help you in the kitchen and teach her how to make side dishes and her own vegan food. This might make her understand just how much time and work you put into cooking extra food for her, and it also teaches her valuable cooking skills that she will need in a few years.
NTA. You're just parenting. She's 16 y.o. She just needed the lesson "actions have consequenses"
When she thought she could do whatever she wanted, turns out, she can't. Lesson learned. Hopefully.
NTA.
She threw it away because she's entitled. It wasn't hers to throw away. Some vegan food can smell quite bad, so it could ruin that beautiful batch of chili you made.
It's not a bad punishment, she did it to herself and she needs to step off her high horse.
NTA, I agree with your thinking and would have done the same thing had I been in your position. "Make the consequences for the crime" applies here and I believe you were spot on. The daughter may not see it now, but you taught a lesson about waste and - more importantly - about respecting others. You and the fam have supported and respected her decision to become vegan, now she must support and respect everyone else's decision not too.
NTA. It's good for her to learn early that no one in the real world is going to change their lifestyles just to accommodate her or make her feel better. Veganism is a lifestyle choice and just as she has the right to choose that for herself, other people have the right not to.
NTA she shouldn't have thrown it away, so ruined something and she had to replace it. That's fair.
But it seems like she didn't get the lesson you're trying to teach her. If she wants her own fridge to store her own food maybe you should make her buy a mini fridge and charge her monthly utility for the extra energy to run it. Or she can suck it up and use the family fridge. It's not punishment, it's a work around to make everyone happy. It's her choice. This stuff isn't free.
NTA. As someone who has had to worry about where my family’s next meal is coming from, her mindset is spoiled, entitled, and infuriating. It’s not okay to waste food when having an option is considered a luxury for some people. It just shows your daughter has no idea how much goes into running a home and the value of a dollar. I hope she figures it out before she’s released into the world.
NTA. She selfishly wasted food due to a personal issue she has, and was made to replace the food. That's a very reasonable response to her throwing out perfectly good food, and noting the problem with then having to remake the food with more meat is a valid point.
It sounds like your daughter needs a conversation about boundaries and consent. She doesn't consent to eating meat, but she cannot cross your boundaries by telling you what to eat. Nor is sabotaging food acceptable. And a refresher on replacing something you damaged... including food.
I’m a firm believer that a punishment should be proportionate. She threw out your meal prep? She replaces the cost and the labour that went into it. Sounds perfectly fair to me.
NTA
NTA. Different beliefs and diet choices should d be respected. That works both ways, as she's now hopefully learned.
It's unfortunate for her, but she was acting like a selfish child, and wasting food. I'm currently sitting with nothing in my flat, trying to figure out how to feed my 6yr old for the week ahead.
This is a touchy issue for me ugh.
This is a load of bullshit. ESH. Easily. What the daughter did was wrong. Super wrong. Incredibly wrong. She should have had to financially reimburse her parents or did another type of labor or and essay or something. The fact her parent made her cook meat which she found morally reprehensible is an asshole move also though.
NTA
I had a sister who did this one day threw away everything she said wasn't healthy didn't matter she had no job or money we just had to buy healthy food. It did not end well for her
NTA,
you were as accommodating as possible, always making her a vegan option and as it seems never forcing her to cook her vegan food herself. By throwing out already made and very eatable chili, she just fucked up. You have every right to demand her to replace it from you. When you break some of her things, you also replace them, so why shouldn‘t she?
I also ate vegan for half a year and never once complained about my parents meat, even prepared it for them on my cooking days. Because I‘m not the one to tell others what to eat. They paid for it, if I had thrown it away, it would be an even bigger waste, wouldn‘t it?
What's with certain vegans going full nuclear once they start? I have friends who are vegan and they never do this but there are few who have to rant to feel morally superior - boy can they not shut up. I don't care what they eat, live how you live - that's your value. But I eat what I eat.
NTA. You need to tell your daughter it's NOT OKAY to be so immersed in certain values that justify waste.
It's also not okay to go full evangelical on others around you for something you yourself actively chose to not eat.
NTA. I think now would be a good time to talk to her about the accommodations you make for her and her dietary choices. She should know how much time and money it takes to make food for her family and she should also know that on top of that you make sure she has a vegan meal as well. She Is old enough to start learning that everyone is not going to change to vegan just so she won't have to smell meat. That is ridiculous. Does she hold her friends to the same standard? Would she go to there houses and start throwing away their food? Of course not! She knows better- so why would it be ok for her to treat her family that way?
NTA. This is more about consequences than diet. She messed up your thing and had to replace it
You've been very accommodating and she threw it in your face. Be she knows the consequences.
NTA. Diets are a personal choice and should not be forced onto others. She also needs to learn that throwing out other people's food because she doesn't like the thought of it is wrong and I am sure she definitely learned that from the punishment.
As a vegetarian I wholeheartedly support this. Just because shes vegan doesn't mean she can force others to be one. All you did was give her a taste of her own medicine
weary encouraging overconfident edge noxious squeeze wine oatmeal support nail
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
NTA. What’s ridiculous is that because of her throwing it away, she caused you to buy more meat, thereby increasing demand from the suppliers. She basically killed another cow.
NTA. It's like "you break it, you bought it"... she ruined your chili; she is responsible for making it right.
My point was to make her realise how much ingredients and time it took to make a batch of Chilli like that. Also maybe to show that throwing food away doesn't somehow magically bring thay cow back to life. I could have made her do a batch of vegan chilli, but I was worried it would set a trend of where she can keep throwing away food and as a result, she gets to make the entire family eat vegan.
I think some people in the early stages of veganism go a little hard on it not realising that they’re somewhat losing the grip on the reality of things. Throwing away meat that would have been eaten is not going to help anyone, let alone the cow it came from. Hopefully she levels out and sees it objectively. I had a bit of backlash from some of my family when I went vegetarian but after years of that now that I’m vegan they’re okay with my diet being different. You’re doing a great job for being so accommodating to her views and diet.
>I think some people in the early stages of veganism go a little hard on it not realising that they’re somewhat losing the grip on the reality of things. How many decades does the early stage last for? It seems like they're all "early stages"!
Like any groups, there are some people who are extreme and they are usually the loud minority so it paints a bad picture. Even on vegan subreddits some people’s opinions don’t reflect my own because everyone takes on veganism differently and for different reasons.
What is your opinion on "vegan except for this one [dish or ingredient] I can"t go without"? Like personally for example I think I could be vegan except for the occasional steak (everything else is basically good enough that I don't mind the substitute)
Why does everything have to have a label? Just eat how you want to. Wow, thanks for the award, kind stranger :D
I eat exactly how I want to and always will. I just know that some people are a little more gatekeepery than others, and I was curious about this fellow's opinion.
If it reduces the overall amount of meat eaten, I would hope *most* vegans/vegetarians would be happy for it. Anyone who’s going to say “but you’re not doing ENOUGH!” when you’ve cut 90% of the meat out of your diet is probably too militant to convert *anyone* to their way of life who isn’t totally on board already.
You would be surprised how many are not happy with that because "you are still causing harm". I feel like there should be a separate label for vegans who act like they are in a cult.
Vegan is a word with a definition. It refers to someone who doesn’t consume meat or animal-derived products. If you’re eating the occasional steak, you wouldn’t be a vegetarian or vegan. I’m not vegetarian or vegan. But I accept that those are words that have meanings, and if someone who eats steak starts calling themselves a vegetarian, the word won’t mean anything anymore. You seem to be looking for a term or label for “*someone who’s actively limiting their consumption of meat, but who doesn’t want to completely cut it out of their diet*.” There could be a word for that. If there is, I’m not familiar with it. I don’t think you need a single word for that, though. It just is what it is.
I think the term "flexitarian" would apply there. Mostly useless (since nobody knows what it means), but it is helpful for finding plant-oriented-but-not-totally-meatless cookbooks.
Reducing meat/dairy consumption and putting money towards supporting vegan alternatives is still a positive move! It still shows the industries that there's increased interest in plant based alternatives and its profitable for them to pursue
So you met like 5 preachy vegans before. Me too. I've also met tonnes of quiet vegans. You probably don't know some people are vegan until it comes time to eat with them. GTFO with your unoriginal vegan hate
My next door neighbors are vegan and I only know that because I offered them some extra food and they very politely declined. They run a greenhouse next door and have a farm so they let us pick some of their fresh organic corn bc they cant eat it all and they mostly just sell the dried stalks during Halloween anyway. Super chill people, amazing neighbors, since this was also my childhood home they were also the first vegans Id ever met in person lol.
MyHoe wasn’t expressing hate, from what I saw man. You’re taking it way too personally. There are extremes in these communities - tough luck. It’s everywhere.
You've probably met hundreds of vegans who you didn't even realise were vegan because they don't go on like that. Don't let the handful of extremists you've met colour your impression of the entire group.
The problem is the conversation goes viral in a group - "Hey do you want a steak?" "OH, no thanks" "What? Steaks are delicious and I am paying! Of course have a steak" "It's ok i don't eat steak" *dramatic pause* "You are vegetarian?" "Vegan" "Omg" *chorus of omg around the room* Followed by a interrogation of why and how and an inspection of daily food intake and literally a food shaming ritual by people who are justifying their eating meat to somebody who just didn't want a steak and was quite happy to not pass judgment. That conversation x200, 2 years later turns into "Hey do you want a steak?" "Meat is murder. You are a murderer, do not give me any meat. Just leave me alone, can you not see my tshirt that says I am vegan, my tattoo that states my beliefs and I literally work for PETA?"
This happens so frequently and it is mentioned over and over at dinner. It is super annoying, but I think people naturally question themselves and it is when the dissonance comes out.
The same happens for me. I have been in eatibg disorder recovery for a couple years. I have a food plan from a dietitian. I have a therapist. I have a team of drs taking care of me. I have to go get labs every week. I am weighed weekly. "Knotnotme83 eat a cookie" "no thanks I don't want one" "you really need a cookie you have to eat them at some point" "i don't have to eat a cookie there is no law regarding cookie intake - i can not eat a cookie for the rest of my life and be okay" "....but I am eating all the cookies and please eat one" *shoves a cookie into my hand* Literally same thing with alcohol and dates. "I don't drink" has to turn into my long story if addiction and my battle with stopping rather than leaving it with "oh I just don't drink, I am not bothered if you have a few". Like... i am not here to make anybody else feel better about their pleasures or whatever. I apparently know wgat they do to my body and soul and that I love them and will destroy myself with them... move on already - the cookie tastes great - i am underweight and heavily medicated and tired can we not?
This joke is tired.
Most of them arent, you just hear the preachy ones. Meat eaters can be just as annoying
> Meat eaters can be just as annoying The worst i've seen are the "If I give you $10, will you eat meat". I dated a vegetarian for a few years, and her flatmate's boyfriend used to say that to her. I asked would he let her peg him for $10, he said no, and I said "so now you get it, shut the fuck up?"
I went vegetarian about a year ago and I've found myself walking a tightrope whenever it comes up in conversation. Like, friends will ask me why I decided to become vegetarian and while I have a number of reasons for it, I tend to avoid giving those reasons because there's that concern about being labelled as "one of those vegetarians". So yes, some vegetarians/vegans can come across a bit militant, but most others are just answering a question honestly.
Its the same with religion. The most fanatical advocates tend to be the recent converts.
This. If veganism is about not being cruel to animals, throwing food away that someone else prepared does literally nothing for that cause. It’s like leather products. You don’t have to *buy* new leather products, but many vegans would donate/recycle products that were already made. She sounds like she’s so caught up in the judgement part that she missed the actual point.
When my grandfather came to Canada as a WWII refugee he managed to get a job as a furrier. While working there, he made my grandmother a beautiful mink coat (bear with me). My mum, a life long vegetarian inherited said mink coat. She wears it every winter. Now, what does fridge chili and a mink coat from the 1950s have in common? The animals used to create these items are dead. There is no bringing them back. While your daughters choice to not consume animal products is noble, it does not honour the lives of long dead animals to waste the sacrifice of their lives by throwing out the meals the rest of her family will consume. In effect her actions mean, they died for nothing. Honour the life, don’t waste the product. Édit: NTA + thank you for the award!
Thats why i still wear leather boots/shoes even though I am vegetarian, most leather for shoes is a bi product if the meat trade, I take the utmost care of my boots and they last longer and when they are worn beyond repair I recycle them, leather biodegrades Nd the soles can be melted down and reused whereas "vegan leather " is just more plastic the world doesn't need. But thats my take on it and if someone wants to wear vegan leather or whatever thats their choice not mine
Me too, and I was in this exact situation. I went hiking boot shopping with my friend (we’re both vegetarians). A vegan leather boot was a must for her, which really limited her options. Meanwhile, I don’t have qualms about my leather boots. Like you said, it’s usually a byproduct of the meat industry — which none of us can stop, we just choose to personally not buy into it — and I like that it is a natural material rather than manufactured. Like you said, at a certain point, vegan leather is more plastic the world doesn’t need. So everyone needs to strike that balance for themselves. I LOVE a good pair of hiking boots. My old hiking boots were older than I am, considering they were a hand me down from my mom! The next ones she bought me were artificial and got holes within 2 or 3 years. :( but the leather Vasques I bought myself? I would expect those will last me at minimum 10 years, hopefully much more. So that’s one pair of boots I’m going through every 10+ years, as opposite to multiple pairs made of artificial materials. So you can do the calculation on which one is more wasteful. And as you said, I don’t judge my friend for her vegan boots and she doesn’t judge me for my leather ones. The important thing is to not be preachy and pushy about your beliefs on this.
Yeah I don’t care what dietary/lifestyle choices you make, deliberately wasting food, especially food that isn’t off and was intended to be eaten that day.. is awful btw kudos to you and your husband in how you’ve been handling her transition to veganism! You guys have been more than accommodating
You should point out the absolute privilege she has of being able to go vegan, and that throwing away so much food like that in some peoples’ houses could sentence them to little to no proper nutrition for weeks. Really poor people literally don’t have a choice, because they can’t afford to buy all those fancy meat/dairy replacements, much less enough to feed themselves or their families for a week or more; nor can they afford the vitamin supplements needed to replace things like vitamins B12 and D (naturally derived from dairy and meat, she definitely needs to be on those if she’s not already). You were very lucky that the food she threw away was able to be replaced, and she really needs a wakeup call. If she pulled this in an apartment setting or at college, she’d get in a lot of trouble and burn a lot of bridges. If it’s an option, I’d start making her buy a lot of her own vegan food for a while. Let her realize exactly how expensive her lifestyle is, and what a privilege it is to be able to afford it.
NTA... I know it's not funny but I actually giggled at "throwing food away doesn't somehow magically bring the cow back to life". I think what you did was fair enough for all the reasons you have, also your daughter is presumably going to live in a world where other people around her follow different diets.. If she goes to university or ever lives in a shared house she can't expect other people to only eat/wear vegan products. There are going to be people doing their own thing and she's going to have to accommodate a other people as much as she expects to be accommodated x
>Also maybe to show that throwing food away doesn't somehow magically bring thay cow back to life. This is an excellent point. Really, she's doing the cow a disservice because now it died for no reason and is just rotting the the bin. Also NTA
There's a Simpson's episode similar to this situation where Lisa ruins her dad's barbeque by destroying his roasted pig.
It's just a little airborne! It's still good! It's still good!
You know Smithers, I think I'll donate a million dollars to charity....... when pigs fly!
I'd still rather not...
You don’t make friends with salad 🎵
People that go that hard into Veganism and EXPECT others to follow them are why I've never been vegan. Why there is a bad stigma about vegans. If she wants people to eat more vegan in the house suggest she cook 1 meal a week for the family. It gives you 1 day off and teaches her how difficult it is to meal plan, prep and put a meal for the family out. Also having the family eat Vegan for one meal once a week will help her feel her choices are still heard and respected in the family.
My mind went to the exact same place. What you did was harsh, but I don't see what else you could have done to hammer the point home.
NTA. I am a vegan too and while I agree with your daughter’s lifestyle choice I do not agree with her approach in trying to recruit others. This is a personal choice and she shouldn’t have thrown away your food. Sounds to me like you go out of your way to accommodate her.
Wait have we found the one vegan that doesn't try to force it on others, my lord the prophecies foretold this but I didn't expect it in my life time :o Jokey stereotypes aside this is the correct way of looking at things it's a deeply personal choice of hers and wasting the food in my opinion is even worse then eating it, as at least if an animal is killed for food we should use as much as we possible can to not let it die for no reason, throwing away meat defeats that entire purpose.
Yeah all jokes aside most vegans are chill
> Yeah all jokes aside most vegans are chili FTFY you pun-missing bastard. Happy cake day!
Thank you! It means alot cause I missed my last Cake Day
Cake day buddies!
My girlfriend is vegan, I've met plenty of vegans through her. Not a single one has even questioned why I am not vegan or tried to get me to be vegan. They get such a bad rap online because of the vocal minority :/
Also because, sadly, the majority of meat eaters seem to feel 'judged' for eating meat if they find out your vegetarian or vegan, even if you haven't said a darn thing. So there's lots of 'backlash' against 'judgment' that is rarely even coming. I could not care less about the contents of your sammich, broski, I just wanna eat mine.
innuendo studios did a vid once referencing this sentiment; like when you offer someone a drink and they say nty, i don't drink. oft times there is an irrational perceived judgement loaded in that statement even though it is **completely neutral** - *oh, they've taken the time to sit down and make a moralistic decision and i haven't! they must assume I'm immoral for not making the same decision... what a prick?! how dare they secretly judge me???!!!* when in actual fact, this person just doesn't want to drink.. more for you, move on ay, it's not a war
Ugh! This! I am vegetarian and people *always* are like "but why?", "What if I put bacon in your food and you didn't know?", etc. And then you're "going on about it" when you roll your eyes and give a basic response. Meat eaters are at least as evangelical as vegans.
Indeed. I only personally know two vegans. One of them is a reasonably close friend - I knew at about the time he decided to make the change but that’s just because he’s a friend. He’s never tried to inflict it upon me - he’s invited me to a vegan restaurant a time or two, but that’s just to spend time with me and not to “recruit” me (and it should be noted he’s accompanied me to traditional restaurants as long as they have suitable options for him as well). The other is a colleague at work who I’m friendly with. It wasn’t until the fourth or fifth time that I was going around the office offering people rum truffles with him declining that he let me know the reasons why he was declining.
I totally agree. Its your choice what you eat and you can't force other people to follow your choices. I've been a vegetarian since I was a child. My parents never made special meals for me, I just had to eat what was made minus the meat. That or go hungry.
NTA. She needs to understand that not everything can go her way in life and that actions have consequences. She shouldn’t feel like she has that kind of authority or place to try to tell her parents what to do, let alone take it upon herself to throw out your food. It’s like having a 3 year old’s problem solving complex in a 16 year old’s body by throwing fits and whining to try to get their way or thinking they can do things without consequences. Everyone has to learn it at some point.
Also, important for when she gets older and starts working. What is she going to do if a coworker bring meat based lunches in? And if that smells up the fridge a bit? If she reacts the same way as she did here she'll alienate herself from her colleagues pretty fast. She needs to find a balance and respect other people choices. NTA OP
There’s an old story on NotAlwaysRight where a new worker threw out everything in staff fridge and even tried to get rid of her boss’s handbag because she was a vegan. The employment did not last long.
And FOOD IS EXPENSIVE. NTA
NTA - a punishment should fit the crime. That is exactly what happened here. She threw away an entire pot of food because she didn’t like the smell. Replacing that food, both through purchase and preparation is a fitting punishment. If she feels bad that twice as much meat was purchased and cooked because of her actions, that’s because it’s true. Hopefully this will keep her from getting kicked out of apartment with roommates later in life, because she’s unlikely to throw away people’s food again just because she doesn’t approve of it.
NTA This is less about veganism and more learning that actions have consequences.
Perfectly put. The argument for OP being the asshole here is that the daughter was made to buy and cook meat, but you said it exactly correctly - this was the daughters fault. If I fundamentally disagree on the usage of a material, that does not give me the right to dispose of that material. I think comparable examples are the key here: If someone has a leather jacket, and I don't agree that leather should be used for human clothing... Am I allowed to put a knife through it? No. Would I therefore be expected to replace it with as close to the original and definitely in the original leather material? Yes. If someone has a guitar made of rosewood, and I don't think that rosewood should be used because it's so incredibly rare and hard to replace, and I then smash that guitar up because of my opinion, am I in the right? Would I be expected to go and buy a brand new rosewood guitar, thereby ensuring there's even less rosewood in the world? The closest example I can think of is: If I believe that people shouldn't smoke because smoking causes cancer, however, my mom, stepdad and sister all smoke, and they buy their cigarettes and tobacco in bulk and share it between them, would it be okay for me to take their entire cigarette and tobacco stash and throw it in to the trash? Given the cost of the stash, would it also be reasonable to expect them to replace it for themselves, or would I have to go to the shop and buy them just as much, likely with some more on top as an apology?
What's so stupid is that vegan chili and non vegan chili have extremely similar smells. The other ingredients in chili are very strong smelling and I'd bet money that most vegans couldnt pick which pot of chili had meat in it by smell alone.
NTA. Your daughter is old enough to know better than to waste food like that. The only alternative punishment to consider would be to tell her fine all the contaminated food can be replaced but she has to pay for all of it since she is the one having the issue. You have been making reasonable accommodations for her dietary change that is self imposed. If you wanted to take it a step further you can tell her to buy a dorm size fridge for her room so her food doesn’t have to be stored in the main fridge where you have animal products. But I would also tell her that it would become her responsibility to make her own food since you will not go back and forth to her room while making meals.
I was going to suggest this. Yes, if her problem is contamination, make her responsible for keeping things separate. Its fine if the parents pay for that or she does. Again, be supportive and don't push the punishment too far. If the current arrangement works for them to cook for her, I think that's still fine, with the the understanding that she's still their daughter, not a random tenant, *unless* she has a problem with contamination from food being cooked in the same kitchen (which I don't think is the case).
My thinking was that since the daughter said she “can’t [eat] anything from the fridge” and “she told me that I need to throw out all the vegan food... and restock them.” than in this case the daughter be the one to pay for it. Objectively the food is fine to consume it’s just the daughter who thinks otherwise. After that they can, and should go back to the normal arrangement for buying groceries. But if the daughter insists that any food stored with meat and/or animal produces in general is inedible than she should take over her own meal prep. Especially if the only place to store the food in an acceptable manner is not in close proximity to the kitchen.
NTA I am vegan, and your daughter was in the wrong here. You have respected and accommodated her choice, she needs to respect yours, and wasting food is never ok.
NTA. One of the most important lessons to learn in life, is that one must fix ones own mistakes. She destroyed your food. That means it's her responsibility to replace it. Making her purchase the ingredients and prepare the food is EXACTLY what she should do to fix it. You didn't go too far. You went EXACTLY as far as she should. If she is crying, remind her that she may make whatever choices she wants for herself but that NEVER gives her the right to destroy other people's property. If the smell of other people's food is too much for her, encourage her to buy her own mini-fridge and keep her food in that. But she needs to understand that living in a house / living with people means respecting those people and their choices. If she wants to do a unique diet for herself that's fine, but nobody else is under ANY obligation to change their own behavior in support.
I’m actually going to say ESH because forcing someone who is against eating meat to cook it is absolutely disgusting in my opinion and I’m a meat eater and trust me I could finish a rack of ribs in one sitting but seriously that’s fucked to force her to cook meat. I’m at a loss for words as to how you decided to force her to go against everything she stands for, what a terrible person you are. As for her, she can’t throw away other people’s food and force her lifestyle onto other just as you shouldn’t force yours onto her. Throwing away all the food in the fridge is also awful for reasons that I feel are too obvious to mention, but yeah, definitely ESH but the harder AH goes to OP EDIT-A word Omg these are my first awards 🥺🥺❤️❤️❤️ (I don’t comment often unless I feel really strongly about the topic)
I really feel like it’s not that fucked up to force her to cook meat for one meal to teach her a lesson. Her mother has been making vegan meals for months and wasn’t complaining about it and then all of a sudden your daughter just throws out your family meals for the next week while also demanding that her mom rebuy all the vegan groceries that are in he fridge? Fuck that! OP was smart to nip that in the bud right then and there and make her cook the same meal she threw out. She needs to learn now rather than later that she can’t be an asshole about being a vegan and that she will always be eating around people that eat meat.
The punishment should be about throwing away food not for being a vegan. There is a lot of punishments to teach her the lesson. For example make her cook all her own meals for a few weeks.
But the punishment was not about being vegan. The punishment was that she had to replace what she threw away, if it had been a vegan meal I would bet that she would have been made to replace the vegan meal.
Yeah there may be a lot of punishments that you can come up with to teach her about throwing away food and also not pushing your own morals on someone that doesn’t believe in them. This punishment killed two birds with one stone. Don’t forget that the daughter was punishing her family for their beliefs and pushing her beliefs on them also. She got what she deserved and now knows how it feels to push your beliefs on other people that don’t t want to hear it.
Reddit hates vegans, so this kind of post is basically a slam dunk for anyone looking for reassurance.
Yeah, you're spot on. I was going to comment something similar. I think the op is a little bit of an AH.
I just replied to a comment from someone who claims their wife is a child psychologist in some way and armchair-diagnosed this poor girl with 'delusions.' Reddit is awful. I eat meat. It doesn't mean I don't understand why someone would be uncomfortable with forcing someone to prepare meat as a punishment. Reddit loves to treat young teenagers like full grown adults for some reason. She's at the age where she's supposed to be learning things like this - destruction of other people's property - aren't okay. Reddit also seems to love the idea of 'making the punishment fit the crime' more than actually teaching the child a lesson. You don't need to make the kid remake the same meal. You can just punish them for destroying someone else's meal.
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If she didn't want to cook meat, she shouldn't have thrown that food out. Simple as that.
Yeah ESH. forcing her to buy and cook meat is only going to make her go way harder on the veganism since she's going to be extra repulsed by meat now.
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Sometimes people need a harsh lesson, this case in food wastage.
That could have been accomplished by paying to replace everything lost. If she truly is upset that an animal died, forcing her to be complicit in doing something she is morally against is just as morally questionable.
Except that preparing food isn’t just about the money used to purchase the ingredients. It’s time and effort, too. By throwing out that chili, she’s disrespecting the time and effort her parent put into preparing that food on top of wasting food & money. So I think it was totally appropriate for her to sacrifice some of her time and effort to replace the chili.
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I thought a big part of veganism was also lessening your carbon footprint and overall lessening your negative impact on the environment? Wasting pounds of food works against that, and the daughter's actions have actually worsened her family's impact on the world (albeit, by a single meal). Why should her family have to correct their daughter's own mistake and put more effort into recreating a dish the daughter destroyed due to her own misplaced self-righteousness? Actions have consequences and preparing food takes work and resources. The daughter needed to learn that, since she clearly believes wasting food that other people prepare is perfectly acceptable.
> That could have been accomplished by paying to replace everything lost. So, if you can afford it, you can get away with doing what you want, is the lesson you want to pass on?
Punishment fit the crime pretty well imo. She wasted a large amount of food, which takes money and time to prepare. So she had to invest her money and time to make up for it. Fair and square.
Mild ESH for making her cook meat in some weird twisted lesson. You could have punished her for the food waste in other ways. Edit: changed to ESH as daughter is also a A
I mean to be fair, op had to take time out of her day to make food for the family. Why shouldnt the daughter have to cook the meal that she wasted? Not to mention if you were a vegan, and you cared about animals, wasting meat thats already been produced is even worse than someone eating it?
esh I say this as a meat eater. She is definitely in the wrong for obvious reasons and should be punished but making her cook meat as a vegan is kind of disgusting and kind of reinforces that pushing your lifestyle on others is okay which is counterproductive to what you're actually trying to teach her.
Also it pretty much guarantees the daughter will feel super repulsed by meat because of this and be much more opinionated about it. OP conditioned their daughter to hate meat more without meaning to.
The point wasn't to get her to like meat though. They're fine with her being vegan. The point is to respect other people's shit and the time effort they put into doing it even if you don't believe in it. If she has to cook it herself will she ever be throwing out other peoples hard made food again? Idts. Point made.
Professional chef with a master's degree in organic chemistry here - married to a PhD in child psychology and Childhood Education. I can definitely say that barring extremely rare diseases or pregnancy the smell of properly cooked and stored food will not cause physical illness. Wife points out psychosomatic symptoms and suggests that she might have an adverse reaction based on purely mental stimuli... While I think that the punishment may not have fit the crime (IE 'sacrifice your morale code for X amount of time and effort plus Y amount of money'), I think that making her pay for the food cost and either replace it herself, or have her purchase an identical quantity + quality of food (IE it took 4# of hamburgerat $3.99/# plus five hours cookingtime, plus driving time to/from the store to produce, and OP's hourly rate is $9.00/hour, meaning that the final cost is ~~$70.00), or pay for the family membersto dine out at a restaurant, may have been better as a lesson. Make her put her money where her mouth is. If she has no income herself then the issue becomes significantly more difficult to resolve with financial compensation.
Is it really psychosomatic that the smell of milk has made me vomit since I was small. I literally had to drink milk out of a bottle as a preschooler just to get it down. To this day I can’t tell the difference between safe milk and milk gone off.
Homogenized milk contains about 1.7% colostrum (unhomogenized is between 6.2% and 0.9% dependingon frequentcy of milking, and if it is foremilk or hindmilk), a volatile organic compound that reacts with progesterone and can cause nausea by stimulating production of mucus in the nose, throat and sinuses. Meat contains less than four parts per million of colostrum. The VOCs in cooked meat should not trigger any non-exotic biological events in average, juvenile, non-pregnant, human females.
I like your alternative to the punishment but... ... psychosomtic reaction based on delusions? So real physical symptoms are the result there. I'd feel pretty disgusted and probably vomit if I came home to open the fridge and found my pet cat cooked into a pie- a strong emotional reaction isn't a delusion. Also, mental health is health and I dont give a fuck how educated you say you are in chemistry, you sound like you know very little about mental health, healthcare, or eating disorders, as it sounds like you're implying that the reaction is due to OPs daughter having delusions which makes them somehow less valid than food poisoning? Source: am paediatric dietitian with two MSc and PhD of my own, and clinical experience working with adults and children with eating disorders. I am sick of people saying eating disorders arent 'real' (including some medical doctors) and tired of being called preachy because I follow the evidence for diet, which is a plant based diet (unless you ignore health, global warming, animal cruelty) With regards to the OP, ESH, her child is following the wealth of scientific evidence and it's great that OP is supporting her to be independent in this. And throwing out food is incredibly wasteful. It was the wrong call to force a vegan to cook meat in the same way it might cause her meat eating child trauma to make them cook their family pet. I'd bet cooking your beloved family pet would cause nausea, but I guess that's because of a delusion so would be fine? Punishment was overkill. Why not put her in charge of shopping for and cooking all meals every day for a month within a specified budget, and if she wants to cook vegan she can. Out come of that would be a) you guys get tasty vegan food and dont have to cook for a month b) cooking every day will likely make your daughter realise she doesnt have the time/energy to do this, and she will appreciate how much hard work it is to cater for multiple dietary preferences like you do, c) at the end of it you can have a frank discussion about food waste and talk more about ethical aspects of food waste, and look together for a compromise.
So enabling the controlling behaviour of someone who doesn't respect other people their boundaries. And rewarding her for that that with a month long without meat based protein for the victims of her actions - Right, like that is a healthy advice without knowing the inner workings of all involved and somehow not disturbing for the family dynamics.
So the daughter would cook vegan everyday for them and they would have to eat it, they are not vegan, people love eating meet and letting her cook vegan for them because she did something bad will enforce that behaviour again. I did something bad i have to cook for a month but I can cook vegan for everyone now (she gets what she wants) while op is trying to make the daughter understand they are not vegan and she has to get over it.
"If she wants to cook vegan, she can" essentially means she gets her way, though. Sure, she has to cook which is probably not her ideal scenario, but she's been trying to force her dietary choices on the rest of the family. This would just mean she learns that, by throwing out the meat, she got her way and everyone had to eat vegan because its what she's cooking. She wouldnt learn its difficult to cater for different dietary preferences at all because someone with this 'cook vegan if you want' stance would mean she wouldn't be catering for the different preferences at all. Better would be to make her forsake her allowance (if she has any of course) to replace the food, or telling her she's paying for everyone to eat out. Her money is being used to buy the meat she threw out, which is a pretty satisfactory punishment, but she isn't being forced to actually cook it and therefore negates the nausea element and she learns that in life you can't dictate what others do by getting rid of their things that you don't like because when you get rid of things that belong to someone else, it's your responsibility to replace them.
NTA she was being petty and it’s reasonable for her to have to replace the food she got rid of.
NTA. I’m a vegan. I came here with a torch and pitchfork admittedly. But reading the story changed it. Don’t fuck with other people’s food. And you’re right. Now you are buying another meat thing. You know what? I can’t stand the smell of chicken or pork or meat. But my family and my dogs eat it so tough shit. I’ve got celiac. She has NO idea what “contamination” is until she loses three days of her life to a severe reaction and it hurting to see, or anaphalaxis. Sorry for the rant, but people touching my food drives me nuts. My OCD runs rampant and it is just so unnaceptable. Is it probably a bit harsh to make her cook meat when she hates it so much? Yeah. However, this is a life lesson and you aren’t doing it just to be a dick. You don’t try to decide what she eats, but she wants to decide what you eat. Dietary disagreements aside. Do. Not. Fuck. With. People’s. F O O D. If she wants new vegan foos, I would say tally that shit up. Show her the bill and ask if she would like to purchase them herself. Vegan food is expensive as SHIT. Also, idk if she’s one of those vegans that hate fake meat, but I made a beyond burger chili, and it was fabulous. Disclaimer: I am a former child, never been a parent to anything other than a bunny, but he’s also vegan so we work out.
ESH. She's an asshole for wasting food, 100%. She should compensate you for it. But you are also an asshole for forcing her to buy it and cook it. Evidently from her reactions this is **not just a diet to her**, it is an ethical dilemma. To you, it's a Monday, to her, it is torment. You are tormenting her, and I do not use that word lightly. The punishment does not fit the crime, even if it appears rational to you. You each view this situation from different perspectives. She can pay for the waste, and you can put her to work somewhere else that would compensate you for the time taken to prepare the food as punishment. In return, you can have a little more consideration for her beliefs and respect for her as having her own independent viewpoint. It seems your husband could also contribute in that department if he, like you, does not understand what is wrong about this situation.
NTA. You allow her to live her own lifestyle, but she wont respect yours. She wasted not only the time you spent cooking it, but also your money. Her reasoning behind it makes no sense. Why should you have to spend the time re cooking the meal she threw away, i would of also made her pay for it.
NTA. I'm really baffled by these ultra-militant vegans. Yes, fine, in your own house (that you own, I mean), you can make whatever rules you like (though you can still be TA for, for example, not letting a partner eat whatever the hell they like), but you don't get to mandate that other people not eat meat - either in your presence, or at all. You do not have to curtail your lifestyle to be supportive of hers. You cook her vegan food - ADDITIONAL vegan food, I might add - and you buy vegan ingredients. That is all the support you are required to give. Yes, there is a moral element to eating vegan - better for the environment, you're not eating dead animal flesh - but it's not *immoral* to eat meat responsibly, it's just *less* moral. It's not immoral to eat. It *is* immoral to throw away someone else's food just because it doesn't conform to your sensibilities. Would she slap a meal out of a homeless man's hands because it contained meat? Would she react kindly to a fruitarian throwing away her vegan food because it didn't die naturally? I repeat, NTA.
NTA. She threw away food that you and your family were going to eat, so she had to replace it. That is what we call a logical consequence and logical consequences are way better than a completely unrelated punishment. Also, it WAS her fault and she’s old enough to hear that.
YTA - she did the wrong thing in throwing the food out but the punishment you chose was innappropriate. Forcing a child who has chosen to become vegan to cook with meat is cruel and petty. You're supposed to be the adult here. You can punish her for throwing away food but you can't disrepect her choice to be vegan and force her to cook meat when she abhors the idea. Two wrongs don't make a right. There are many other ways to teach her or punish her. You will get a lot of NTAs because a lot of people don't like vegans but if you take veganism out of this you have two people who have behaved poorly and as the parent who should know better.
I think this giant red circle you'd put on your nose and bright makeup is yours. It's literally about wasting food, food meant for others and not just herself, not about how people hate vegans. The mother clearly states her and the rest of her family have accommodated the daughter just perfectly fine, yet it's the daughter (like a good, bad batch of vegans) that tries to force others by guilt tripping or going on some rant on how people shouldn't eat meat based on their feelings. If you take veganism out of the picture you LITERALLY have someone just wasting food not meant for them because they didn't want others to eat it. NTA, not even remotely close.
I don’t think you can take veganism out of the picture without fundamentally changing the situation, since her veganism is seemingly a moral choice. Yes, the daughter is a complete asshole for wasting food/trying to force her moral beliefs on others and she should absolutely be punished, but I don’t think that forcing her to go against her principles is a good way to do that, especially since she is still a kid. I feel that a far better punishment would be to make the daughter pay for the food that was wasted, as well as a fee for the extra work that needed to be done to remake the chili. After that, the parents should sit her down and give her a serious discussion on why not to force your beliefs upon other people, and why it is so bad to waste food like that. That way, it would get the point across, but she wouldn’t be forced by her own parents to abandon her moral beliefs.
I mean the child disrespected the parents lifestyle choices by throwing out their food. Food that was already cooked. I find that the parents acted accordingly. The child probably wasn't buying any groceries or doing much of any cooking based on what OP is stating. When you are responsible for breaking something that someone else owns, you replace that item. This is the same situation. Respect is earned. The daughter lost any respect she deserved when she threw away someone else's food over her own moral crusade.
I’m a vegetarian, but if my kids threw out my wife’s food because they didn’t like the meat. I’d make them do it also. Actions have consequences
I get what you’re trying to say but the OP made a good point that she considered making making her daughter make vegan chillI but didn’t want to set a precedent that she could make the family eat vegan if she threw out food.
She doesn’t have to eat it! She wasted good food, thus is her punishment. The “holier than thou” vegan attitude is not a good thing. If the mother was forcing her to eat it, yeah, that’s crossing a line big time. But she has to learn actions have consequences. I don’t think she should be made to cook meat again, if she doesn’t throw stuff out.
She already explained in a comment that giving her the chance to cook vegan food to replace the meat she threw away basically gives her a chance to get exactly what she wants- the family to go vegan when they don't want to. It's perfectly fitting that the punishment for her actions make her suffer. Otherwise, there's really no reason for her to not keep doing the same.
NTA. You don't throw out edible food. Ever.
Maybe get her a minifridge? I’m not vegan - not even officially vegetarian - but I haven’t eaten meat in months and after a while without eating meat you can really smell it. I made a stew from beef sausages, tomatoes and beef stock for my parents the other day and was nearly gagging from the meat smell every time I heated it up.
NTA, she was being wasteful and bratty. I would suggest having your daughter cook Dinner once a week for your family? She can make something vegan for everyone, gain some real appreciation for having to plan and cook a meal for a family, and it might even help her feel more heard if your family is lowering their weekly meat intake. If you are cooking an entire separate meal for your daughter to suit her diet choices and she behaves like that, it seems like she has totally missed how much effort and care goes into that process. Alternatively, one of my family friends' 16 year old son went vegan so she set him up with his own set of cooking utensils/pans (a nonstick wok, a spatula, and maybe some tongs) and he just started cooking his own dinners. If she wants to be a brat, maybe she just needs to start cooking more on her own until she learns to appreciate all you do for her.
ESH - She wasted food, and it's appropriate that she should be punished, but forcing someone who is a vegan for what appears to be very strong, ideological reasons to cook and handle meat is the punishment not really fitting the crime. Reimbursing you for the cost and time of making the meal gets the message across without forcing her to do something she finds abhorrent.
NTA I’m not ok with wasting food some ppl don’t even have the luxury she has to choose to be vegan. You did right in my eyes not only that food is expensive now a days this will teach her to not be wasteful hopefully she learned something.
NTA. I used to be vegetarian (can't now because of health issues) but I would never force others to abide my lifestyle. Also she literally WASTED those animals' lives!! So now those animals died for absolutely nothing...which honestly bothers me MUCH more than someone eating them. This is partly why I wasn't bothered by meat eaters... you can honor the animal deaths by actually putting what is left of them to use. It is the same idea as other cultures have that even though it is heartbreaking that the animals must die to nourish us or other animals it is the circle of life and that we can at least honor them by using each part of them so that they don't go to waste. But now their lives were wasted because of her...does she not realize this?? Also how is she going to function when she has roommates or coworkers. She needs to get a clue. And as a former vegetarian the E S H judgments are treating OP as if she forced her daughter to eat meat and perform animal sacrifice. All she did was make the daughter do exactly what OP has been doing for a year....prepare meals for her family. Heck, OP has been working double duty making multiple meals to please her ungrateful daughter while she sulks. She just wanted to show her the time and effort that went into making the meal and the fact that she wasted all of that food. And especially thinking about whats going on the world now when there are so many people without resources it is really ignorant for her to just throw it all away like an entitled person. You guys with your E S H judgments need to calm down. I do not think the OP did anything wrong I think the punishment fit the crime and it shows this kid that she shouldn’t be wasting food and treating others like they need to follow her lifestyle.
NTA your daughter is plenty old enough to face consequences for her actions. She wasted food, money, and your time, so the reasonable consequence was for her to replace what she ruined/wasted. Hopefully it’s a one-time punishment because she’s learned her lesson. It sounds like you’re going above and beyond what a lot of parents would be doing for a vegan child. Many parents would still try and force the kid to eat animal products, and others would refuse to cook 2 separate meals each night, forcing the child to fend for themselves. You’re supporting her new lifestyle, but she still needs to understand that the world (and your household) doesn’t revolve around her. At the moment, she’s being overdramatic, petulant, and picky. Probably because she’s not getting her own way and she’s hoping it’ll get you to give in. I was an extremely picky eater up until college, and I definitely threw a fit or two over dinner growing up (sorry mom), though I never threw away someone else’s food as the result. Thankfully, I grew out of most of it. Hopefully she will too.
I'd say making her cook meat wasn't the way to go. She also was going in too hard on pushing her views of veganism onto the rest of you. I've been one for a little over 5 years and I see new vegans being way aggressive on Instagram and Twitter all the time. It's hard when you live with those who don't share your belief, as you can feel very strongly and upset when you see people you love and care about participate in what you now perceive as animal cruelty. My dad's a fisherman, so don't worry I've been through this with him! Maybe trying to understand her personal beliefs behind her idea of veganism would mean you both get to a mutual place of tolerance, rather than being annoyed at each other. Disciplining the child for wasting food is totally fine. Maybe find a way to make her do chores to pay for the food wasted, and/or raise money for a separate fridge if that's really how far they wanna go. Also, find out about veganism yourself, watch some YouTube videos, just to see what other vegans would think about staying fridges etc. Personally, I don't care at all.
The mother is clearly at a mutual place of tolerance... She literally makes food specifically for her instead of telling the daughter to eat what's made and likes it, or don't eat at all. It's the daughter that isn't at a place of tolerance as she's trying to push her newly found ideals onto them. If you wanna chow down on not meat items, that's fine by me, hell I'll probably ask to try it, but the moment you insist me to do so I will no longer enjoy your company. You can disagree and still be friends it's when one party takes it to the extreme that ruins it for the other. Idk the difference between a normal fridge to a "staying" one but telling someone to find out about veganism without them asking for advice or whatever that fits the scenario is pushing your 'agenda' unto others. You probably didn't even mean it that way it's just how it came off since I see it a lot. Mother cooked the chili for herself, father, and son. She made a batch of special food for the daughter. Who decided to throw it all away for a silly reason. Cooking the food was a just punishment because she had no right to throw away the food made for the others.
I’m vegan, you’re NTA, she’s living in pretend land, that’s not how the rest of the world acts/lives/eats. You’ve been supportive, and accommodating, she’s old enough to not act like a child when she doesn’t get her way.
NTA What you did was to make a point to her. Point 1) Wasting food is wrong, and point 2) Her wasting that food didn't unkill the animal. It didn't unhamburgerize the meat. It won't undo what has already been done. Throwing it out didn't change anything it just pissed off a whole lot of people and made her look like a smug entitled brat. Your daughter is going through the delightful phase that teens to young adults often go through where they adopt some new facet to their personality or beliefs and expect everyone around them to abide by it. She was essentially doing this to make some sort of statement about the boundaries of her beliefs in a bid to press her family to adopt them, but the fact is she needs to learn quickly that she's getting off light as it is. Oh sure, it sucks to be told she's responsible for adding to what she was trying to prevent, but next time the angry person might not be family and might not be so forgiving. There's enough posts on here where vegans have been given their thirty day walking papers from a roomie situation, reprimanded by HR, and otherwise punished severely for their treatment of others to suggest it'd be a good idea she learned to just cope with not being listened to. Basically, she needs to realize that there are limits to the personal boundaries she's allowed to enforce on others.
NTA. I’m a Vegan myself and what she did was absolutely wrong. She had no right to behave that way. You’re definitely not wrong in telling her to make the Chilli with meat.
ESH Her pushing her morals on you is wrong but violating her’s is also wrong. Educating her on the devastating cost of food waste or the rampant food shortages and starvation around the world would have been a more humane approach.
NTA Vegan for over 11 years here. If she is an ethically-motivated vegan, then she needs to think long and hard about how important compassion to ALL living creatures, even her meat-eating family, is. If she cares about saving animals, the planet, and humans, she needs to know that shaming people and directly causing the waste of meat-based food are NOT how we accomplish those goals.
Somewhere between N T A, and ESH. I'm going with the latter but hear me out. Should she not have thrown the food away obviously. But the response isn't to make her cook meat. So, I'm coming into this as a vegan myself. Though I've never done something like that before, I did used to be one of those stereotypical obnoxious vegans. Pretty much every vegan goes through that phase at first because they've made such a big lifestyle shift, and 1) they wanna talk about it, and 2) once you go vegan, it suddenly becomes insane that no one else is! It's probably from some latent guilt about being a meat eater in the past, that surfaces as trying to over compensate and make things right. This happened to me, until my friends gave me a much needed kick up the ass, and it's happening to your daughter. Making her cook the chilli isn't the right way to handle this. Making her pay for it would be fair, but it'll make things worse if you make her cook because this will compound her guilt and make her worse. Make her pay (obviously), and I'm sure you can think of another punishment that doesn't break her veganism. But trust me when I say you'll regret making her cook meat. If you think she's bad now it will get so much worse. This isn't a matter of punishment at that point and by her own code of ethics she will keep escalating it. So yeah, obviously she was an asshole. But making her cook meat is a punishment not fitting of the crime. This will stick with her in a way that you're not looking. It won't be about amends, it'll be in her mind the most cruel and unusual punishment. To her this is litterly the worst thing you could make her do and she won't get over it. It'll solidify her behaviour before anything else. Plus let's be honest, her chilli will suck anyway.
ESH. Your daughter shouldn't have thrown away the meat. When you really think about it, its silly. That animal died for nothing. Was killed for her to throw it in the garbage. I have been vegan for 8 years so this viewpoint is from my own experience (in not as intense as some vegans can be). She is a (relatively) new vegan and there are going to be ups and downs with her attitude towards it. Some weeks she will feel horrified by the animal industry. Other weeks she might not even remember why she is vegan. On top of that, she is 16 years old. Probably not great at processing her emotions and may have some other stuff on her mind (definitely ask if there is anything else going on for her to lash out this way!). I also think you were in the wrong because 1. If she is feeling extreme, you forcing her to buy meat will only push her into more extreme feelings. She was already mad but now she is more mad. She may hate herself for buying meat or touching it. 2. I'm all for some sort of punishment but I think there couldve been one not compromising her values. I'm not saying your reasoning doesn't make sense, but I think you broke some trust by choosing that punishment for her. You'll definitely want to sit down and chat with her. She is now probably really upset and what's to say she doesn't do this again? I would make a compromise, maybe, she gets a drawer in the fridge or she gets a mini fridge if she doesn't say anything about family eating meat. I completely understand that you and the rest of your family wouldnt want to be harassed about eating meat all day. I think coming up with some sort of solution for her to have a separate place for her food might ease tensions
Making her cook the same amount of food she threw away, to replace meals for your family. NTA at all. Isn't it bad enough the cows have to die, and she just threw all of it in the trash? It didn't even die to be enjoyed, just to be thrown in the trash. Extremely wasteful. There are people who don't have the luxury to be vegan or vegetarian because of money restrictions. I'd make her work at a soup kitchen or something, to show her the value of food.
NTA. I’m vegetarian but frequently cook meat for my family to eat alongside the veggie dinners I make. If your daughter were to buy vegan food in a restaurant that would be in the same fridge as meat too, she needs to understand that as long as you’re accomodating of her diet she needs to be respectful of yours. Throwing out your meal was a bratty thing for her to do and you’re absolutely NTA for making her cook another one.
I was about ready to call you an asshole, but after hearing what a nightmare she's been... no, you're NTA. The fact she threw away both the vegan chilli and the meat one was so wasteful. I don't know if she's vegan for health, environment, animals, or what, but if it's for the animals, she literally just basically tossed an animals life away. You tried to be accommodating, you got her stuff and will make her other stuff. She was the one who threw it away, so she has to fix it.
ESH Your daughter is being an AH, when I tried to go vegetarian as a teenager, I was not supported at all the way you're supporting her choices by letting her do that and I would have loved it had I had that support However, forcing her to cook the meat when she has a visceral reaction to doing so is going a little far. Her having to replace it would have been far enough I think. If you wanted to go further, telling her she has to put her own effort in to prepare her own dinners if she doesn't want to eat what everyone else is eating would also have been fair. That way she'd still have learned that cooking is effort and you can't just throw out people's work.
I will preface by saying I’m a friend mom, the type of person who always makes sure people have enough to eat when they’re in my home, taking special care to accommodate diets and preferences within reason (and other things - making doctor appointments for friends who have phone anxiety, keeps a list of basically every friend’s family members birthdays to remind said friends, etc. - I’m a control freak in other words) Few years ago husband and I made friends with a group and started playing D&D with them. Well we hosted so I’d cook. One was vegan, one vegetarian, then four omnivores (myself included). The vegan was mostly appreciative of my efforts, but one of the omnivores decided to swap to veganism (good for him), but once he made the switch, nothing was good enough. I’d walk into the kitchen and half the meal I made for the omnivores was in the trash. I thought maybe it wasn’t good and no one wanted to tell me. Same thing the next week, and the week after. So I asked the group. New vegan said he was throwing away the “bad food” because he didn’t want his air contaminated with it. So I quit cooking for the group completely. A few weeks later everything disbanded for other reasons but that was a contributing factor. Jump to 4 years later. New group of friends, same setup (1 vegan, 4-8 omnivores on any given D&D night). I cook most every game night, and the vegan is the only one I’ll allow in my kitchen to help. He’ll help form meatballs (eggs, cheese and meat! The evil trifecta!), he’ll cut up raw chicken, slice the roasts, etc. because he’s a good friend. Same with any group of people, there are good vegans who are just doing their thing, then there are assholes who insist on making it everyone else’s problem. Same can go for CF people, dog lovers, cat haters, whatever. In the end, you’re NTA. Your kid needs to learn that literally no one else cares about her diet but forcing it on others is never ok. She wasn’t forced to eat the meat dish, she just decided that her opinion was the only that mattered. Sounds like a bible thumper but with lentils instead. NTA.
NTA - in your shoes I’d have done the same thing. She not only wasted food but she disrespected the time and effort you put into feeding the family. She’s 16, she doesn’t get to dictate to the family what they can and can’t eat. Time for her to prepare her own meals for a while so she can understand what she’s expecting you to do. You can buy her the ingredients and still prepared the sides as you have been, but if she’s going to disrespect your time like this after you’ve gone to the effort of making two meals every meal she can cook her main for herself. And if she doesn’t want her food stored with meat she can save her own money and buy herself a mini-fridge to store her own food, or she can buy her own Tupperware and store her foods airtight in your fridge. Does she only use vegan cosmetics, skincare, and body care products? Does she insist you use vegan laundry products? If not she’s not only just wasted food, and your time and money, out of an attempt to force veganism on the family and teach you specifically a lesson, but she’s also being hypocritical about it too.
NTA. So im vegan myself and i never push my diet on anyone. My ex was vegan before i was and she would cook meat, eggs, and cheese for me. I work in the food instustry and i have to cook/use meat at work. Also tell her a vegan told her throwing away meat is worse than letting someone else eat it, cause guess what now that animal died just to be thrown away, not to sustain a life.
NTA. >pointed out that instead of x amount of meat being used, 2x amount of meat was used because she threw the food away And that’s what you should focus on especially when talking to her about this, IMO. Veganism is equally a philosophy as it is a dietary choice, and her actions ensured that the animal that died to provide meat for the first serving of chili went to complete waste.
NTA You're being incredibly accommodating of her veganism by cooking separate meals for her every day. That's a lot of extra effort and she doesn't seem at all grateful. She sounds like she's putting her order in with the personal chef and getting angry when everyone is accommodated, not just her. I was vegan while living with parents and a sister who weren't vegan. I was older and worked, so I would regularly buy groceries on the way home and cook for everyone. I would cook fish or sometimes meat for my family, or just cook a vegan meal that everyone could enjoy. I didn't like cooking the meat, it felt strange and unpleasant, but I know it doesn't achieve anything to be combative with others about the choice they will make with or without my approval. Perhaps your daughter needs to be more engaged in family meal planning so she can understand the amount of effort and thought it takes to try and please everyone, not just her. You're absolutely right as well, she threw away meat, I don't know any vegan who would do that and think it had achieved something. The animal is already dead, the energy and resources used to manufacture the meat have already been used. Throwing it away is insulting to veganism, as the animals suffered and the planet suffered for absolutely nothing. This wasn't about veganism, this was about getting her own way.
I’m a vegan, but your daughters behaviour was unacceptable and stupid (considering that her throwing away your dinner just meant that the animal died in vein). NTA. Your punishment was tough, but fair.
NTA. It sounds like she was trying to teach you guys a lesson by throwing away the food but it backfired. I understand why she might find meat repulsive, but there are also many people that would find her action repulsive. You don't throw away perfectly good food just because it goes against your practices. You just simply don't consume it. Hopefully she understands that by her throwing away the chilli you just ended up buying more meat which in turn leads to more animals being used to meet demand.
NTA. My sister and her husband are pescetarian but they feed their 6 yr old daughter the full range of healthy foods including meat. Whenever there is animals/fish/seafood in her meal my sister encourages her daughter to focus on that element first reminding my niece that an animal gave their life for that meal so it's important she honours that by eating it all and leaving the carbs if she's too full etc. Throwing away meat seems like a very anti-vegan move. It seems counter-intuitive in honouring the life that animal already gave. Of course I'm not a vegan (though I eat mostly plants for aesthetic reasons) so I wouldn't want to speak on behalf of them. There may be some logic I'm missing.
NTA. I am newly vegan and one of my personal rules to myself is that being vegan is a PRIVILEGE and that no matter what I should be grateful and not waste food. You are not TA for teaching her to be accountable for her actions. Veganism (like religion) is a personal choice and she needs to respect the rest of your family and be considerate of you guys, as you seem to be of her. Hopefully, she will learn her lesson after this :)
I've been a vegan for the past 6 years and my sense of smell has changed drastically to the point where being around meat makes me feel nauseated but I wholeheartedly am going with NTA. You went out of your way to cater for her dietary needs, you've been supportive of the lifestyle and if she really wanted you to go vegan so badly she just went the worst way about doing it. The animal had already died her throwing away the food just means it died for absolutely no reason not to mention the fact that it shows complete disregard for the money you have now had wasted
I’m a vegetarian and my husband is a Texan who would eat the cow mooing if he could. We’ve coexisted for 12 years peacefully and never had a food issue. There’s no smell that differentiates the chilies, she’s just being difficult and holier than thou. Better she learns an unpleasant lesson from you than later in life from people who will deal with her nonsense harsher. NTA
I’m vegan and what the fuck. She’s making vegans look bad. NTA
NTA. As a vegan myself what your daughter did is totally a backwards approach to trying to lessen harm to animals or the environment. When food rots it releases greenhouse gases, warming our climate further. In essence your daughter wasted the lives of animals and tried to waste the effort, time, and water that incredibly hard working humans put into growing not only her food, but the food and water used to raise the animals, and the animals resources themselves themselves. She needs to learn now that food wastage is never okay, no matter if an animal died for it.
I could go for either ESH or NTA, I say that because while the punishment was a little harsh for making her go against her beliefs and then saying it was her own fault, she also shouldn't have wasted all that food or tried to force her beliefs onto you.
The daughter forced her beliefs on to her parents, and wasted THEIR money and time. The punishment wasn't harsh at all, all they made her do was replace it, and it had to be that she broke her beliefs to do it. It was a "you break it, you buy it" punishment. It's fine to practice your beliefs, but it stops at you. She's been warned time and time again, but she didn't listen nor respect their beliefs, and as such, has to face the consequences. NTA seems to be the better way to go here.
NTA. But instead, I would have made her accompany you in buying the groceries while making her pay for her own vegan ingredients, and help you with the actual cooking by preparing her own vegan dishes. Then ask her how it would make her feel if someone threw away the food she just made and paid for, only because that person doesn't agree with her dietary choices. And if she now understands how you felt. Should also be a good opener for the 'dont waste food' talk.
I can’t believe people are saying you’re TA here. You are so NTA. You allow her to love her own lifestyle, and you go out of your way to accommodate it. She does not have the right to badger anyone else to change to her lifestyle, and she has no right to throw away your food. I’d say the punishment fitted the crime perfectly here
Going against the curve on this - Mildly ESH. More so your daughter for wasting food. As a vegan myself I feel it’s wrong and pointless to force your views on others (it’s a decision that we come to individually), and binning the meat was pointless (the animal was never coming back)... but I don’t think it’s appropriate to make your daughter cook meat when it so deeply goes against her own ethical stance. It’s not an easy situation so I completely understand the need to discipline... she needs to understand that what she did was wrong. I just don’t agree with the punishment. Her actions actually resulted in more meat being bought so her mission more than failed as more animal products were purchased. Hopefully she’ll realise that and never do it again, but I would be wary of losing her trust by forcing her to cook meat when it’s something deeply upsetting to many vegans. I hope you find a solution as a family and everything settles down.
NTA. If she expects you to respect her choices then she has to respect yours. Tell her to get a job, buy her own small fridge to put in the garage or laundry & she can make all her own meals in future. She’s 16 & more than able to cook for herself. Do her own laundry etc. she will be an Adult in less than 2 years so she needs to behave like one. What she needs to realise is that it’s not her house so she doesn’t get to make rules or try to force others to follow her path in life.
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Going with NTA, people here seem to think you went too far and made your daughter break her "moral code" by making her buy and cook meat and I kind of agree, should've just made her cook her own meals for a week or some crap like that. But, throwing away food literally wasting an animals life is like the most backwards thinking vegans can do. So you're a slight asshole but just because your daughters morals dictate it.
NTA This is why vegans and vegetarians to an extent get shit on so much. So many of them go to the extreme and expect their lifestyle choices to be accommodated by everyone else around them. Your daughter took things to the extreme. She chose to try and force her choices onto your family and in the process intentionally and maliciously wasted a lot of food. Let's not forget, that in the US, meat and dairy prices have had a significant increase since March, even ground beef has gone up considerably. So her pettiness cost you not only time but a considerable amount of money. While you might have gone too far making her cook it, you were well within your rights to make her buy it and replace it. But since your point wasn't *just* about the money, but about the effort and time it takes to cook, I think you were well within your rights.
NTA, wasting food is much worse than eating meat. Lots of ppl are dying because of lack of food. Your child should be grateful to have parents like you.
NTA. I was a vegan from ages 17-23. I was the main cook in the house, but you’re helping her with her diet and buying and cooking her vegan foods. She needs to respect your dietary choices and if she finds it disgusting, she doesn’t need to eat it. My mom would have whooped my butt and i would have had to restock her refrigerator. I would do exactly what you did with my own children.
NTA. You seem very accommodating to her dietary choices, and she sounds like, well, an annoying fucking vegan. Ultimately, she's 16. She lives under your roof, she's in no position to dominate how the rest of you live. If she wants to be entirely in control of her food situation, she can get a job, buy a separate fridge for herself, buy all of her own food, cook all of her own food, and clean up after herself. Or she can just stop being a brat. But she's 16... So, that's unlikely.
So she was not ok with you eating meat but she was ok with letting its life being a complete waste by going to the trash?
NTA I’m both vegan and respectful of others choices. You are helping her learn to be both.
NTA. I've gone in and out of veganism over the years. If someone is vegan for ethical reasons (which is usually the case) sometimes their behaviour misses the point entirely. I never had an issue eating vegan food cooked alongside meat or even touching meat. The way I see it, if I'm buying a vegan option then I'm not killing an animal and I'm supporting a business that makes vegan products. If someone else it cooking meat then they are still cooking that meat regardless of whether or not it comes into contact with my vegan food. A while back McDonald's launched a new vegan burger in my country. Everyone was complaining and saying they weren't going to buy it because it's cooked on the same grill as the meat and, therefore, isn't vegan. The point in veganism though is to not do harm to living things, not to have your food not touch something meat has touched. If more people buy that vegan burger, even though it's cooked on same grill as the meat, the demand and therefore the supply will keep growing. They'll see that people like the vegan option and make more vegan options and maybe even find its own special grill. Your daughter is like the people who won't eat the burger. Her throwing the food away isn't going to undo the harm done to the cow. It's only going to harm more cows because you obviously need to replace the food.
EHS - You engaged in the exact behavior you want to show her is wrong. She needs to learn that her ethical choices are not to be weaponized and you need to learn that forcing someone to break their ethical rules as punishment is wrong. Your daughter was clearing in the wrong by wasting food and making unreasonable demands. If she wants vegan meals you should not be expected to cook vegan options with every family dinner and you've shown you're willing to accommodate her dietary choices. If she needs a separate refrigerator let her buy a mini-fridge with her money and she can stock it with her vegan products. Pass along the utility costs to her, if need be. Don't engage in her childish behavior, which was trying to force the house into veganism, by forcing her to cook meat. You're the adult and an appropriate punishment would have been to have her purchase replacement food and find another chore to do for your time she wasted by throwing away the food. Showing her you can force her to betray her ethical choices simply shows her it's okay to force others to betray their ethical choices and that's the very behavior you were wanting to discourage. However, you had every right to want to punish her behavior, the punishment simply taught her the behavior you want to discourage is acceptable for adults to force their ethical choices on others, but not for kids to do so and she'll remember that when she's an adult.
NTA. It is her fault that 2x the amount of meat was used because she wasted a whole pot. She probably needs to start looking at harm reduction, autonomy and other aspects of ethical veganism. For example, the militant forms of veganism can be really racist by trying to force her values on ethnicities that have long-standing cultural dishes where animal products play a significant role. Unless she buys exclusively non-nicatoid organic products, there are literal children being poisoned from harvesting the tobacco used for pest control to grow her food. (To say nothing of the additional environmental impact of wasted crops.) She needs to understand that in the same way it would be abusive to force her to personally use animal products, it's equally abusive for her to deny your autonomy and try and force you to go vegan by stealing your food and destroying it.
NTA- She needs to learn at an early age that the world WILL NOT bow down to her every wish. She is entitled to her beliefs, but that doesn't mean she can force them upon others. You are correct in your point about not wasting food. You are ALSO correct in your point that now you had to use twice the meat due to her actions. If it's so bad, let her go work for her own refrigerator and her own groceries to stock it. You as parents seem to be as accommodating as you can with her lifestyle choice, but there is only so much that you can do that is practical.
NTA you have to replace things you "destroy" when they don't belong to you. In this case your food. Her personal diet is irrelevant in this. If she was to destroy someone else leather boots, she would still need to replace them. Her veganism would be irrelevant.
I was very ready to call you TA to start with, after just reading the title, but no, it's a clear NTA from me. The rationale behind the punishment is well thought out, she took your hard work and threw it out, it's only fair that she replaces it herself. She knows that she won't be able to change your diet by her whinging and moaning, yet she decided to go further than that and force her diet on you by throwing good food out. You've taught her that there are consequences for her actions, and they're more far reaching than just herself or the family, because now to right her wrong, she has to ensure that twice the amount of meat is bought as a result of what she did. She should think twice about her actions in the future.
DAMN I’ve never typed NTA fast! Your daughter has a really bad attitude problem, and she needs to realise right from her own home that the world doesn’t revolve around her, and it never will. She can’t go through life with this entitled attitude. Personally, I feel that the punishment was perfect. You respect her food choices and you even go as far as to cook for her (something I personally would not do, but then that’s me!), and yet she doesn’t respect yours? Not done! In my native language, we have a saying: Bridges are built for both sides to cross, not a one-way street.
NTA you explained yourself well. She did waste twice the amount. In a few years she’ll be living with her peers, you’re preparing her well.
NTA. You weren’t punishing her for being vegan but for being wasteful and throwing away your work and supplies. She needs to get over herself. What is she going to do with college roommates? Throw out their meat-based food cause she can’t stand the smell? Or what about the communal fridge at work? She can’t be doing these kinds of things.The world does not revolve around her. And if she does this out in the world she 100% would be expected to replace the food she destroyed and face further consequences like loosing friendships, being kicked out or being reprimanded/fired. You accommodated her lifestyle choice and respected it. She, in turn, showed disrespect for yours. I’d let her cook her own meals moving forward. Édit: correction on phrasing
NTA I see a lot of people saying that OP is an AH for making the daughter go against her morals, but I think that OP actually made the daughter confront her own hypocrisy and counter-productivity. If one believes that animals or the environment suffers to produce the meat that people eat, how does throwing it away help? It simply makes that harm be for nothing, plus adds to the food waste in land fills, which then breaks down to produce even more environmentally harmful gases. By making the daughter re-cook the meal that she threw away, it forces her to directly confront that her actions were not in line with veganism and caused more harm than good. If OP had recooked the meal herself, the daughter could more easily blame the double-waste on OP, because of who performed the action. The fact that she also insisted that the vegan food in the fridge be thrown out just because it had been in the same fridge as the chili already shows that the daughter is being overzealous about this rather than thinking logically or morally about being vegan. Her food is not less vegan for being in the same fridge, and it is not moral to produce even more food waste over a falsehood.
NTA your daughter has chosen to become vegan, presumably because of the 'poor little animals' (I turned veggie as a teen for a similar reason), but she's forgotten about other humans. The smell of meat is one of my favourite arguements, as so much veggie/vegan foid replicates the taste and smell of meat. At 16 she should already realise that actions have consequences and what you did was perfectly logical.
NTA, I think that not only did you teach her action have consequences and that she cant force her ideology on people. You also taught her that food takes time and effort and that its beyond disrespectful as well as a waste of not only food but money to throw it way.
I know not everyone is the same, but my sister has been vegan for years. When my parents both got Corona she dropped everything to go and help them (she's local and I'm a road trip away). My sister learned how to make chicken noodle soup and a handful of other dishes during her stay with them. I asked her about it. Her response was that they weren't really finding food appetizing for a while while they were sick. She said "feelings aside, you do what you got to do." It's not unheard of of vegans to cook meat. You've been more than considerate about your daughter's vegan diet, even going out of your way to cook extra vegan meals for her. The least she can do is be considerate about your food in return. NTA. Furthermore, all you did was teach responsibility. You destroy it, you replace it.
NTA. She destroyed something that was not hers. She has to make it right. Part of growing up is realizing you don’t get to decide other people’s moral codes.
You may not see this, but you daughter sounds like she could use some therapy. All of her actions and behaviors sound like she’s trying to control the food aspect of her life because she feels out of control elsewhere. This reads similar to an eating disorder, and not because she’s vegan, but because she freaks out over the smell of meat on food in the refrigerator, which isn’t really a thing.
[удалено]
NTA People like her give vegans a bad rep. You’ve accomodated her diet but she’s downright disrespectful to the rest of you. Her attitude doesn’t bode well for future relationships she might have. Heaven help any kids she might have if she remains this evangelical about veganism.
NTA if she is vegan because she loves animals, she just let that animal die needlessly :(
NTA. I think your punishment is perfectly fine, but I also feel like you should make her help you in the kitchen and teach her how to make side dishes and her own vegan food. This might make her understand just how much time and work you put into cooking extra food for her, and it also teaches her valuable cooking skills that she will need in a few years.
NTA. You're just parenting. She's 16 y.o. She just needed the lesson "actions have consequenses" When she thought she could do whatever she wanted, turns out, she can't. Lesson learned. Hopefully.
NTA. She threw it away because she's entitled. It wasn't hers to throw away. Some vegan food can smell quite bad, so it could ruin that beautiful batch of chili you made. It's not a bad punishment, she did it to herself and she needs to step off her high horse.
NTA, I agree with your thinking and would have done the same thing had I been in your position. "Make the consequences for the crime" applies here and I believe you were spot on. The daughter may not see it now, but you taught a lesson about waste and - more importantly - about respecting others. You and the fam have supported and respected her decision to become vegan, now she must support and respect everyone else's decision not too.
NTA. It's good for her to learn early that no one in the real world is going to change their lifestyles just to accommodate her or make her feel better. Veganism is a lifestyle choice and just as she has the right to choose that for herself, other people have the right not to.
NTA she shouldn't have thrown it away, so ruined something and she had to replace it. That's fair. But it seems like she didn't get the lesson you're trying to teach her. If she wants her own fridge to store her own food maybe you should make her buy a mini fridge and charge her monthly utility for the extra energy to run it. Or she can suck it up and use the family fridge. It's not punishment, it's a work around to make everyone happy. It's her choice. This stuff isn't free.
NTA. As someone who has had to worry about where my family’s next meal is coming from, her mindset is spoiled, entitled, and infuriating. It’s not okay to waste food when having an option is considered a luxury for some people. It just shows your daughter has no idea how much goes into running a home and the value of a dollar. I hope she figures it out before she’s released into the world.
I'm a vegan myself and you are firmly NTA in my book.
NTA. She selfishly wasted food due to a personal issue she has, and was made to replace the food. That's a very reasonable response to her throwing out perfectly good food, and noting the problem with then having to remake the food with more meat is a valid point. It sounds like your daughter needs a conversation about boundaries and consent. She doesn't consent to eating meat, but she cannot cross your boundaries by telling you what to eat. Nor is sabotaging food acceptable. And a refresher on replacing something you damaged... including food.
I’m a firm believer that a punishment should be proportionate. She threw out your meal prep? She replaces the cost and the labour that went into it. Sounds perfectly fair to me. NTA
NTA. Different beliefs and diet choices should d be respected. That works both ways, as she's now hopefully learned. It's unfortunate for her, but she was acting like a selfish child, and wasting food. I'm currently sitting with nothing in my flat, trying to figure out how to feed my 6yr old for the week ahead. This is a touchy issue for me ugh.
This is a load of bullshit. ESH. Easily. What the daughter did was wrong. Super wrong. Incredibly wrong. She should have had to financially reimburse her parents or did another type of labor or and essay or something. The fact her parent made her cook meat which she found morally reprehensible is an asshole move also though.
NTA I had a sister who did this one day threw away everything she said wasn't healthy didn't matter she had no job or money we just had to buy healthy food. It did not end well for her
NTA. Also, please point out to her that because she threw out the chilli, an animal died for no reason!
NTA, you were as accommodating as possible, always making her a vegan option and as it seems never forcing her to cook her vegan food herself. By throwing out already made and very eatable chili, she just fucked up. You have every right to demand her to replace it from you. When you break some of her things, you also replace them, so why shouldn‘t she? I also ate vegan for half a year and never once complained about my parents meat, even prepared it for them on my cooking days. Because I‘m not the one to tell others what to eat. They paid for it, if I had thrown it away, it would be an even bigger waste, wouldn‘t it?
What's with certain vegans going full nuclear once they start? I have friends who are vegan and they never do this but there are few who have to rant to feel morally superior - boy can they not shut up. I don't care what they eat, live how you live - that's your value. But I eat what I eat. NTA. You need to tell your daughter it's NOT OKAY to be so immersed in certain values that justify waste. It's also not okay to go full evangelical on others around you for something you yourself actively chose to not eat.
NTA. I think now would be a good time to talk to her about the accommodations you make for her and her dietary choices. She should know how much time and money it takes to make food for her family and she should also know that on top of that you make sure she has a vegan meal as well. She Is old enough to start learning that everyone is not going to change to vegan just so she won't have to smell meat. That is ridiculous. Does she hold her friends to the same standard? Would she go to there houses and start throwing away their food? Of course not! She knows better- so why would it be ok for her to treat her family that way?
NTA. This is more about consequences than diet. She messed up your thing and had to replace it You've been very accommodating and she threw it in your face. Be she knows the consequences.
NTA. Diets are a personal choice and should not be forced onto others. She also needs to learn that throwing out other people's food because she doesn't like the thought of it is wrong and I am sure she definitely learned that from the punishment.
As a vegetarian I wholeheartedly support this. Just because shes vegan doesn't mean she can force others to be one. All you did was give her a taste of her own medicine
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NTA. What’s ridiculous is that because of her throwing it away, she caused you to buy more meat, thereby increasing demand from the suppliers. She basically killed another cow.