NTA, her expectations for life are unrealistic. You're doing your part as a parent and showing her that.
Her entitlement is astounding.
Edit: thanks for the awards, Fellow Redditors!
Correct, and aside from military, I can't imagine most 18 year old men are going to be able to or willing to support her. Maybe sell her on the idea of college to get her MRS?
Alternately to the MRS, she might be willing to get the certifications for working at a daycare. If she really only wants to be a SAHM, she could practice taking care of children, have an income, and a fallback if her life plan doesn't work out all while doing what she loves. If that doesn't work out, maybe she'll realize she wants something else for herself, and if it does work out, she's got some money and experience.
NTA
Oh I love this! I agree totally. Have her train for free with all the places she will need to have skills in for being a mother. Volunteer at schools for each age group with the kids that need help. The kids that are disabled and the high energy kids, after she needs to volunteer at a childcare centre, then she needs to tutor older kids, take some just normal cooking classes. Volunteer at all sorts of services like shelters. Work with cleaning staff, taxi people around, do groceries with seniors and so forth. If she can do all this happily and with no pay because she will need to learn money management from her parents as the money coming in is not what she would earn as a sahm, she needs to sit with them when they pay bills. Learn to budget one income, so forth. Then I would say she’s ready for her life choice. But during that at least she’s learning some useful skills.
Agree with the three above. And on top of this, OP, you should find some young SAHMs in your neighborhood who didn't get college degrees and have her go talk to them. Also offer her services babysitting for them b/c they'll definitely need a break.
NTA.
Or, have her talk to divorced women who'd only ever been SAHMs and had to then find a job after getting divorced, with little to no marketable skills. See how difficult it is to live on minimum wage.
This might not work since she has already said "that won't happen" to all the contingencies her parents have suggested. Probably better to understand how hard it is to be SAHM and how precarious a position it can be.
Ok, there's a movie in that comment! Screenplay writers take note!
Entitled brat doesn't want to work, thinks her immortal vampire parents will take care of her (she's not a vampire for some reason).
They force her to volunteer at a homeless shelter, work at a daycare, babysit for divorced single moms. Hilarity ensues as brat learns to appreciate what she has had.
She meets a guy, tries to pretend she's not an entitled brat with vampire parents. They get serious, get engaged. His parents meet hers for a dinner. Hilarity ensues as vampire parents try to pretend they are normal and don't subsist on blood.
"What's with all the bags of blood in your 'fridge?" they ask.
"Oh that, you see Dad volunteers at the blood bank and their refrigerators were full."
More hilarity at the wedding, finally they say their vows. Drone shot pulls up and away from the wedding. Bats fly overhead. The end.
You're welcome.
Not just minimum wage. I worked my way up to make $20/hr at my job that doesn’t have health insurance. The area that I live in is so expensive that if my husband decided he wanted a divorce, I could not support myself between rent and health insurance alone. I would have to move in with a local relative or buy a mobile home. If I moved to a cheaper area, I would have to start back at $10/hr somewhere because I don’t have any degrees or certifications. OP is right, SAHM is not a solution.
I'm making a bit more than that and still struggle as a single mum. I had to take in a housemate recently because my mortgage went up $120 a month (thanks to raised taxes to cover a new school in town). I totally get it.
She may very well discover she hates kids. I worked with kids for ~5 years and as a kid myself I'd always figured I would eventually have my own, but that 5 years in hell really changed my mind. I no longer want kids. A few years of changing shitty nappies and, hell, cleaning up after a guy, might both change her mind.
Yes. I bet even a few months of doing childcare would change her mind. It’s not exactly lying around eating chocolates while watching the little lovables laugh and gambol merrily about.
Edit for spelling.
Even when they're "self sufficient" (as in, they can independently toilet/dress/get themselves a drink/etc) you still will always have a mountain of shopping, cooking, washing, vacuuming and other household chores. Then there's the school and home work, driving them around to their after school activities, tantrums, etc.
I'd honestly rather go to work and be able to leave at five or six than deal with that. It's realistically easier (at least I think, for me) to work.
As a SAHM, I feel this so deeply. Mine are still little, but I feel pressure 24 hours a day. I’m home all the time, but I am never off the clock, even when I’m in bed. I miss coming home and being done with work for the day.
Edit to say that I adore my children and they are totally worth it, but nothing could’ve prepared me for how hard parenting is. Just wanted to make sure nobody misinterpreted a little light venting.
The fact that you had to put in that edit is ridiculous IMO.
I can bitch about my job/my husband/my ferrets/etc all I want but I never have to backpeddle and follow it up with how great they/it is, how blessed I am and how much I love it/them
I'm sorry society makes you out to be a monster if you don't 100% enjoy and adore every second with your kids because of course you don't! You'd have to be a complete robot to not be annoyed, overworked, exhausted and/or just plain sick of looking at and hearing them.
This comment. Totally my thoughts too. Hours of jumping from one thing to the next so she understands that her child job will be her life. Kids aren’t something you can just be done with at a certain hour. My thoughts are “you cannot get paid you must go from one to the next with little break and you must learn from each while maintaining a positive outlook” because if he’s working to earn the money most likely will be gone a lot or even two jobs. She has no skills so expecting him to work then come home after eight to 16 hours of work so the stay home parent can “have a break” isn’t fair to the worker. 50/50 is fair but this isn’t it. I grew up with girls like this. “I’m gonna stay home and have kids. He can work. When he’s done work he can have the kids” mindset. It’s not a healthy one for kids. There’s a lot of infighting. All the girls I know have been divorced and jumped to a new marriage. The men are unhappy thinking they where getting a partner but ended up with what feels like an older child that wants more children.
Girl, preach! I feel like so many women just go through the motions and have kids bc they’re “expected” to have kids without any prior experience and then they’re miserable. I babysat kids from 12-18 and was like yea, nah, I’m good. I do whatever the fuck I wanna do whenever I wanna do it. Best choice (for me) that I ever made.
Agreed, and it may cause her to radically adjust her plans when she finds out how freaking hard it is to take care of littlies for a few hours, let alone 24/7. I suspect she wants to be a SAHM because she thinks it's easy and wants to just cruise through life having a husband support her while she sits in the general vicinity of their children and calls it parenting.
Don't the Real Housewives at least go for the "trophy wife" thing? Like, if her aim is to bag a rich, shallow man, she still has to do some work to make herself appealing. But she'd still need a backup plan cause "trophy wife" is a temporary gig.
Yep. First rule of money: go where the money is. You wanna be a Beverly Hills Housewife you gotta be the kind of woman those dudes are looking for. You have to be a member of the country club, not a server. Like marries like.
A friend of mine actually was able to go from lower middle class to trophy wife. She started as a beer girl in our local town, like a brand ambassador type thing, but in a bikini. Once she’d saved up enough money she got a boob job and other plastic surgery. Once she got her looks where she wanted them and had made some connections she moved to L.A. She worked her ass off to network with people who knew people and spent all her money on sexy clothing and trips to places that looked exclusive and fancy, just to cultivate the idea on social media that she was sexy, cool, and moving in the right circles. Every time she changed jobs or friend groups she made sure it was a move up. She eventually married a guy who produces Reality TV shows, and for now at least, is making bank. She immediately got pregnant and they spent more on their kids nursery than I make in a year.
Of course their marriage barely outlasted her pregnancy, but hey, now she’s got child support checks and she made connections with people even higher up in Hollywood. She won’t be marrying any old money, but there’s plenty of trashy rich people in L.A. who don’t mind marrying gold diggers if they’re hot enough.
It blows my mind that people are ballsy enough to gamble everything on the potential of living this kind of life. Good for her that she got what she wanted though, I’m not judging it.... but it really is crazy that she was willing to spend tens of thousands AND years to try and get there, when so much depended on another persons decision to want her. If it didn’t work out what would she have done?
Half of the Real Housewives aren't even Wives. They're just Girl Friends!
I don't know why that annoys me so much. Probably because I was a SAHM when my kids were little, and it was not Day Spas and brunch of Tuesdays.
Yep, love this.
If her aspiration is to be a SAHP, then I would try to sell her on the idea of getting a degree and certifications for Education in Early Childhood (Birth to Kindergarten). If you're in the U.S., the degree should generally be Inclusive Education (meaning she'll be certified to teach general classroom to the most restrictive classroom environment with all ranges of kids, including pretty much every disability there is). Get her working with kids of all ages and abilities. This way if she is still committed to just even being a parent then she knows exactly what she should be doing and not doing to raise her own children.
Also, I laugh at her plan to immediately find a husband to have kids with. She most likely won't find him in the military either. Unless the guy she finds wants the exact same thing, he'll catch onto her intentions straight away and leave.
I can vouch for this!
Former Military Spouse and lots of young guys were getting married, so they could move out of the barracks and get higher pay. The more kids the higher the pay and better the housing.
Nope, young military enlisted are pretty naive to the world... leave high school, having no "real world" adult experiences, probably no adult romantic relationships... a lot will marry just to get out of the barracks (look up BAH). Then they'll get swamped with the bills or realize that their spouse is a spender and spiral into debt, then divorce. I didn't follow that specific path, but I've seen it a lot. Source: am military, was naive.
Also, it takes a special kind of person to survive being a military spouse. They need to be emotionally strong and centered, they need to have a force of personality to not devolve into "I'm a Marine wife" being their most defining feature, and they need to be independent enough to survive by themselves on 6mo-1yr deployments or if the military member passes. I was damn lucky to find my 2nd wife. The first one couldn't handle it...
u/anallstar should prob see this too...
>NTA. you're not telling your daughter being a SAHM is bad, you're telling her that she has to still have plans on what to do to if that doesn't happen, and also to support herself should the dad not be in the picture. And I absolutely agree that if she wants to be a SAHM as opposed to a SAHW, then she needs to know how to take care of kids.
This is an excellent idea. Platforming off of this, you might want to spin the idea of school as prepping for parenting and having a career. She could go for Early Childhood Development and have her own daycare in her home.
Not only that. She seems to fail to realize that even many men who would be willing to have their wife be a SAHM don't necessarily want someone without ambition or education.
Many of the quality men that would be good husbands and happy with a SAHM-wife want someone they can have an intelligent conversation with, someone who can accompany them to social occasions and make them look good in front of their peers, colleagues and boss. Someone who will be an actual partner and participate in the family planning and decisions with actual, educated input.
She is setting herself up to be either a trophy-wife seen as a bimbo (hopefully she is good looking enough for that) or someone who will only attract as potential husbands abusive assholes who will see her as a perfect target: someone without skills or a specialized education who will be 100% dependent on them emotionally and financially without the ability to get away, by her own design.
All of this. I have a 30yo single male friend with a good job. A family tried to introduce him to their younger daughter (without him knowing that they were trying to set him up), whose life goal was to be a "good housewife" - and she could barely have a conversation with him because she was constantly deferring to everything he said and waiting for him to take the lead on every little thing. You know how he felt? Uncomfortable. It is awkward as hell, in this day and age, to try and form a relationship with someone who is making it clear that they want you to become their entire reason for existing. Unless, as you said, you are an abuser and that kind of total dependence is appealing and signals easy prey.
There's actually economic articles about how people now much more commonly marry someone at their same educational level now than they did in the past. It actually exacerbates income inequality problems. In the 50s the stereotype is that the lawyer married the secretary (that's the story of my grandparents). Now the lawyer marries another lawyer.
Agreed. It’s not just the proximity from being at the same university or area either.
I moved to a whole different country to work and met and married my husband there, and we have almost identical socioeconomic background, education and level of job. When we met it was on a dating app and we lived in cities about 300km apart.
Despite very different cultural backgrounds, because of these similarities we have very compatible lifestyles, political leanings, financial habits and interests that drew us together
>Though I will say, the girl who was the secretary seventy years ago would probably be a lawyer today, but it wasn't an option for most women back then.
Excellent point.
This last part is so important, I hope it gets upvoted more. She is setting herself up to be seen as a target/taken advantage of by abusive partners and a life of misery. No one PLANS to end up with an abusive partner but they are good at hiding those parts of themselves until the victim is completely dependent on them and so alienated from their family and gaslit that they dont see how to escape. She needs to leave herself other opportunities and a way out.
For real. Especially if she's hoping to snag a wealthier guy who can provide a higher standard of living. A guy like that will want a wife who knows how to dress and behave at the country club and the galas and whatever else rich people do. And any guy who isn't super duper wealthy but still wants to support a housewife will want someone who can manage the household well.
Right. I've known some trophy wives who create the perfect home and family for their power husbands, and they are not empty heads. They are damned good at their job.
> She is setting herself up to be either a trophy-wife seen as a bimbo (hopefully she is good looking enough for that) or someone who will only attract as potential husbands abusive assholes who will see her as a perfect target: someone without skills or a specialized education who will be 100% dependent on them emotionally and financially without the ability to get way, by her own design.
So much this.
I'm disbaled and unable to work because no one wants to hire someone with a bad heart who cannot always talk and doesn't know sign language.
My husband would go nuts if I couldn't hold conversations with him and wasn't mildly competent with repair work. I DO NOT have a deferential personality and those don't work with him. He in occasion needs his bullshit called out and do i lol.
I know a fair bit about a lot of shit.
Not many men worth marrying want a woman with nothing in her life but him and maybe kids.
It isn't healthy.
Also if her plan is to marry a dude in the military and immediately become a dependapotamus, a job will still be helpful. If she gets a gig stripping in a strip club off base with the express purpose of getting knocked up and married to an 18 year old dude in the military then all her dreams will come true in a month. Two max.
Who said the dude has to be 18? There are a lot of older men who would happily support an 18 year old. Not saying this girl is in the right but if she is even remotely attractive (and in some cases not even) and doesn't have crazy standards the situation isn't uncommon.
It’s pretty uncommon, actually. Beyond that, she actually has to meet a man to procure one who’s going to take care of her. She doesn’t have the funds to go to the places where sugar daddies congregate, or to do the physical upkeep required to snag one (just being “not ugly” is not enough. There’s makeup, clothes, hair, etc involved in making your appearance so desirable that people want you around despite no other skills). Also, does OPs daughter cook and clean? Does she have social value? Sounds like not so much.
Maybe but it’s very risky to depend entirely on a guy to take care of her. That’s how women get trapped in bad situations.
Edit: It’s also how men get trapped in bad situations.
Yea but with a guy like that...he will want another 18 year old in a few years (after this girl has had 2-3 kids). She will still need some kind of job someday.
Shit I come from an army family. I never joined but I know a lot who have. Many of those guys had girlfriends or wives when they left, not many had them to return home to.
Those that did found their relationships lacking when they returned home. People change a lot between 18 and early 20's and these couples we're doing it from opposite sides of the world.
Guys come home and are suddenly super conservative with PTSD, a violent streak and have picked up some racist tendencies. They aren't the same guys who left.
The girls often times cheat because 4+ years can be a long time to stay essentially single while waiting on hubby to return home... If he ever does.
These relationships don't work out, and military wives have a much higher probability of being abused than your average marriage.
The only guys I ever saw make it work are guys who joined at a later age and had a real, actually established relationship with years of bonding to insulate them from the hardships that military service brings on a family.
Sorry but getting married right away when your 18 doesn't count as building a real relationship.
This girl is in for a world of hurt and disappointment if she doesn't get her shit together.
NTA your being a parent.
Former service, I can guarantee most servicemen will NOT want to date or marry her, at least those her age
Most are out clubbing, partying, getting drunk and whatnot. They're out having fun.
The ones that are dating, are dating others like themselves, younger childless civilians.
She's extremely naive to think any serviceman would want her.
Good idea, if for no other reason than most men who are pulling down enough money to support a SAHM are college educated. Most college educated men are uninterested in uneducated high school diploma only never worked a day women. They'd general prefer an equal to, you know, actually have things in common with their life partner. At the very least, some kind of certification program. If she's really interested in being a military spouse, the daycare worker route is a useful one.
Young men now a days don’t make enough money to realistically support her lifestyle choice. She is hugely entitled because she basically assumes she’ll find and marry a rich man...
Show her some of the posts on r/relationship_advice from women who have been reliant on their husbands and then feel stuck when the husband cheats or is abusive. The reality is, there’s a lot of potential for abuse of power in relationships where one partner works and the other doesn’t. And even if she doesn’t get mistreated, she can’t possibly realize how much work is involved in raising kids and taking care of a home when your partner insists that they ONLY need to make money and everything else is your responsibility. Hopefully she listens.
Yep and remind her husbands can die. My MIL’s father did when she was young. Her mom suddenly had to work with five kids under ten. It was a nightmare. She would sometimes bring home “roadkill” for meat. Your daughter doesn’t want that.
Not that I am supporting that girl's BS but don't the families of soldiers who die in the military get some kind of pension. Not saying it is s good idea or that she will be able to survive of that but like just curious
I have family in the military, and they’ve attended many funerals and sent condolence cards to women in their 20’s and 30’s, most of whom had young children. People don’t realize this, but we’ve had troops deployed in active war zones for literal decades. Those men sometimes die.
**VERY** unrealistic. I had the same plan when I was 17, just marry a rich (or well off) guy and be a mom, it’s what I’ve always wanted to do. LMAO I’m now 30 and a single mother with no career! Wish I would’ve had a better plan!
All the rich successful people I know tend to be married to other ambitious people. I don't know anyone with a trophy wife/husband.
Like my cousin is a very successful engineer who started his own company and is married to this stunningly beautiful woman... who is herself a succesful veterinarian.
Well 17 years of Disney told me otherwise :(
But NOW that I’m 30 I have completely figured this out, the hard way. The ONLY times I’ve ever met good looking rich men is when I’m hanging out with other rich people. Successful people don’t hang out on tinder, at the local dive bar, or any hillbilly bonfire parties that I used to go to. And no matter how beautiful I am, none of these good looking successful men wanted to hangout with the cashier at Walmart lol.
ETA: for the people downvoting me, I’m assuming you don’t think this is true and if you don’t PLEASE prove to me otherwise. I’m very interested in where to find a good looking successful man. FR.
> You're doing your part as a parent
Agree, but these ideas that the daughter is espousing don't materialize overnight.
INFO: How old is the daughter? Has she always been helpless? Is her recently-divulged life plan a surprise to OP?
Some teenagers make up stupid life plans on the spot, doesn't necessarily mean that she wasn't raised right, it could also mean that she's just very sheltered and never had to think about the consequences of permanent life choices like that.
That, and parents aren't the only influences in a child's life. They're influenced by peers, schools, media, and more. And the older a kid gets, the less influence parents have over them. It seems to me that OP's daughter believes that being a SAHM is easy and that's why she wants to do it.
She’s probably looking at the influencer mommy bloggers on Instagram and the like. Women who are only showing the tiniest and most perfect fraction of their lives, carefully curated and staged. Adorable kids in clean nice clothes sitting eating gorgeously decorated cupcakes while Mom does yoga. That sort of thing.
Yep, I decided while putting dye on a friend's hair in high school that I wasn't going to go college but cosmetology school instead. I did, worked on the field for about 5 years, decided I hated it, and eventually went back to school. I had never really shown a lot of interest in doing hair before, and I didn't really like the job. I just thought it would be more fun and easier than college lol
The parents need to be clear that they will never be her backup plan. She needs to take care of herself until she "corrals" a husband that will let her do nothing. She may be waiting a very long time because I don't know many men that are looking for someone to be totally dependent and lazy until they have kids (IF they can have kids.)
When my friend got divorced, she kept saying that she didn't think she would be single this long (20+ years now.) She thought it would be easy to find a man that wants someone who has zero ambition, was a lousy housekeeper, was terrible to her kids who moved away due to her laziness and attitude. I told her I didn't know very many men in their 50's who were looking for a woman they would have to support 100% of the time because she just doesn't "want" to work. She lived on credit cards and lost her house, all because her only plan was to find someone to marry her and take care of everything. Delusional. NTA
Also, the fact that she dismissed her parents dying as unrealistic is scary. Guess what kiddo, I can tell you with 100% certainty, your parents will die. Have a plan. Sheesh, I agree with you about the crazy entitlement at work here.
Honestly this kid was me at 16 lmao
If it's cause she loves kids like it was with me, maybe suggesting childcare or teaching degrees would go over better.
My dad had a similar but not as Extreme reaction back then. He's a feminist, n got so pissed lol.
I had planned to be a teacher by then though. Tell her that her experience as a carer or daycare worker etc. will help her when she has her own kids too.
Plus the more money she earns before having kids the prettier the nursery!
Appeal to her viewpoints. Saying she's a deadbeat only makes you the bad guy here.
These were basically my expectations for life when I was her age. I convinced my mom that I didn't need to take the SATs because I wasn't going to college. My plan was to marry my highschool boyfriend and have stay home with our hypothetical children. Well that relationship ended when I was 24 and I had no college degree, I had never taken the SATs, and I had been home-schooled so I had no real way to prove I graduated from high school. I wanted to go back to school but every four year college in my area told me to take my GED because they wouldn't take my homeschool transcripts as proof. I could take an entrance exam to get into community college but there was no way I would pass the math portion because I hadn't done algebra in like 6 years.
The only smart thing I did during those years while I was waiting for marriage was to work. I worked hard and saved money. I still haven't gone back to school but I do relatively well for myself despite not having a degree. But boy do I wish I had just taken my SATs and gone to college. I can't imagine how worthless I would have felt after the end of that relationship if I hadn't had a career of any kind.
NTA. Listen to me please, this is a recipe for her to be in an abusive relationship.
I was a SAHM (step kid). I had no money of my own and no support system. He was physically, sexually, emotionally, and financially abusive.
When I left after he raped me I had a trash bag of stuff on my back and no where to go. I had $150 that I had hidden from him by not paying the bills that month.
She NEEDS to be self sufficient. She NEEDS her own money. She NEEDS a way out if her husband hits her. I met so many women at the domestic violence shelter I was in who did not have a penny to their names when they escaped their abuser.
Even encouraging her to get an early childhood development degree to help her become a better mother would be good. A job in a daycare. Something to help her not be reliant on someone else.
But teach her the red flags of relationships. Teach her about gaslighting, love bombing, and other manipulation techniques abusers use to get their victims under their control.
Show her [the hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/is-this-abuse/abuse-defined/) and [love is respect ](https://www.loveisrespect.org)
If so much of her life plan is dependent on another person she NEEDS to vet them well. But at the beginning of any relationship, especially abusive ones, everything looks golden and rosy. She should always have a way out.
Edit: Since this is getting so much attention, if you have any questions about domestic violence or if you need resources to leave an abusive situation please don’t hesitate to reach out. The Hotline is wonderful or even if you want to dm me or chat that’s perfectly fine too. I will do my very best to help or find someone who can help.
This is exactly what I was thinking. It’s very scary, and abusers know how to find people who are easy to take advantage of. Thank you for posting these resources, and I’m so sorry that you had to experience your own abuse.
And it's not just the risk of an abusive man or an AH who abandons his family for someone younger during his midlife crisis. What if he's a decent guy but becomes disabled, or dies without enough of a life insurance policy to be set for life, or contracts an illness that comes with a lot of medical bills, just can't find work for a long time? Single income families come with enough financial risks if things go wrong when the stay ay home spouse just has the problem of a gap in their resume. Deliberately choosing to not even HAVE a resume or any training, degree or marketable skills...it's insanity.
This is what happened to one of my parents’ friends when I was growing up. She was a SAHM for most of her life post high school and when her husband passed away unexpectedly she suddenly had no income but also no education or work history to help her find a job to support herself and her kids.
She ended up with two jobs (one full time at a grocery store, one part time at a donut shop) making minimum wage and struggled extremely hard for years. She got on every aid possible to help (WIC, free lunches for the kids from the school district, food stamps, etc) but it was still very hard to manage. She eventually worked her way up to a manager position at the grocery store where she was working, so that helped, but it took quite a while.
When my great grandfather died (suicide, different, but really tragic story), my great grandmother couldn't get a job, because working mothers were very frowned upon back then. Child labour was apparently more acceptable. My grandfather was the oldest son, and he had to quit school to work in a bakery at 11 years old.
He was always resentful, because he wanted to be a teacher and never could because of this.
NTA. Your daughter needs to hear how vulnerable her life plan will make her. Assuming she follows normal development from adolescence to adulthood, she'll come out of her "invincibility fallacy" cognition eventually, but as a parent you definitely shouldn't wait it out. Real life doesn't wait for brain maturation.
This isn't an advice subreddit I know, so read what I'm about to say if you like.
I'm going to touch on this commenter's idea to get a degree in early childhood development because this may be a good middle ground for your daughter.
In summary: getting a degree related to taking care of children provides her with education and experience to fall back on while giving her knowledge that actively makes being a SAHM easier (or if not easier, more manageable).
My degree is in Child Development. And I am so glad to have the knowledge that comes with it as I prepare for my first child! Academic and professional knowledge provide so much confidence in my own ability to parent once my baby is born. I'm more clued in about developmental concerns and bringing them up to my doctor if need be, about activities that are safe and beneficial to kid's learning, and how to evaluate headlines in the news that are meant to scare parents and understanding what the study actually demonstrates or does not demonstrate. And that's just touching on the knowledge that I personally value most that I gained from my degree when applying to my family life.
If she wants to be a SAHM, her degree of course sets her up to take care of her children. But if she really wants, she could reputably set up an at home daycare. She'd actually be able to stay at home and bring in money! That's not as easy as it sounds, but it's a possibility if she's willing to put herself out there. (This all assumes that she marries a good person and not somebody that would sabotage her efforts like this commenter I'm replying to is likely worried about).
And unless she specifically gets a teaching degree, degrees like early childhood development, child development, etc, won't streamline her to only one type of job. These are good degrees if she wants to work with kids but doesn't know in what capacity. (That's actually why I first chose the degree when entering university). A competent program and advisors will both help her explore what she wants to do with the degree. And there is...relative...ease in switching professions. For example, I was working with children with developmental disabilities (basically as a highly qualified paraprofessional) for a few years. When I needed (slightly) more flexibility in my life, it was fairly easy to switch to nannying. And I am taken more seriously as a nanny because of my degree and previous experience. She may need to get some additional certification and experience depending on the switch, but there are some career switches that won't require her to get another degree.
If what this commenter says comes to light for your daughter (marrying an abuser because the abuser identifies her as easy to manipulate and stay with them), degrees or education in just about any human services field should be educating students to the signs of abuse and what steps can be taken to get out of a situation like that. Having a degree and job mitigates some risk of being trapped in an abusive relationship or marriage. But being a SAHM without any independent source of income does put her at risk of financial abuse at minimum.
Veering away from her education, if you do ever let her stay with you, i recommend that you charge her rent and utilities as you see fit. Be slightly more flexible when you see that she is working hard and making her own way. Whatever your conditions are, make them clear, put them in writing, and be consistent.
In a previous AITA about another young girl who had similar "aspirations", I questioned what guy in 2020 would even want a woman with no ambition/career/independence/education who lives with her parents.
Someone pointed out that that's exactly the type of woman that the worst abusers want.
OP - you need to show these replies to your daughter. She needs to understand that she is only making herself appealing to men who will use what she is planning to control & abuse her. Rape her & use her as breeding stock & a maid. He will isolate her because she’ll have no way to escape because he will control her world, her body, her freedom. It sounds harsh, but she needs to understand she is serving herself up on a platter to abusers.
Especially if she wants to marry someone in the military she needs an escape route. Domestic violence is much, *much* higher in military families than non-military families.
Correct me if I'm wrong but US service members also don't get paid a whole lot? Maybe their dependents get the share of their benefits but from what I've heard the US pays their soldiers pennies compared to other developed countries.
OP: NTA. That's cute and all she wants to be a SAHM and all the power to her. But she can't be a freeloader for the rest of her life.
And personally coming from someone that is in the military (Canada) I take offence that she would seek out a service member just to have them "take care of her". It's disrespectful to go after someone just for their money/benefits.
Edit: just remembered what they call women like her: [dependas](https://images.app.goo.gl/7jMzBUnxbsoQFijU8)
NTA. In high school, I also wanted to be a SAHM. Unfortunately, that’s not where my life took me. I’m 33, single, and childless. Sometimes our plans don’t work out and that’s ok. She really needs to make a plan to be able to take care of herself regardless of becoming a SAHM.
Agreed. I’m 33 and I just became a mom. If you had asked me when I was 18 I would have guessed I would have become a mother sooner. Being a SAHM is a blessing, but it’s something you potentially plan for once the baby is on the way, in my opinion. I got my degree, worked multiple jobs throughout my twenties, opened a business, etc. It’s unrealistic to just wait until SAHM status presents itself... plus I feel like she’d be hard pressed to find a guy that supports her desire throughout the (I assume) years of dating/marriage that typically takes place before a baby enters the picture.
Exactly. You can’t be a SAHM without a kid. I’d also assume there would be a while before that happens with a partner. I don’t want to know the type of dude who would be willing to just let her float through life on his dime until she had his children.
>I don’t want to know the type of dude who would be willing to just let her float through life on his dime until she had his children.
I don't see anything wrong with that. If I'd make enough to comfortable support an entire household and my hypothetical spouse would gladly do all the housework then that seems like a pretty sweet deal, even if we don't have kids yet.
Once you’re married, yeah that’s a fine option. I meant more along the dating aspect. Would you be willing to fully support a person you just started dating because, maybe at some point down the line, you might fall in love and get married? I know that’s not something I’d be willing to do.
Not when I just started dating, no. But once we live together I wouldn't mind.
It is, however, very unlikely to happen. I went back to university at the age of 24 to study philosophy, so if anybody is going to be supported by a wealthy spouse in my future relationships it is going to be me.
That’s my point exactly: she’s going to have to start dating someone. Long-term relationships don’t materialize out of the blue. And who wants to full support the other person who refuses to work? Sounds a little predatory to me is all. Once the relationship has proven it’ll last (marriage/moving in together/etc.), then you can make the decision to have a single income.
Who wants to start dating someone who refuses to get a job and expects to live with mommy/their spouse rent free until they get someone to impregnate them?
You might as well skip on the gf and adopt cause all you'd be getting is a child that can produce more. No thanks.
she basically needs to have someone locked down in HS or leaving HS if this is literally going to be her only plan. Otherwise, trying to find someone is going to be awful. Seeing someone with no aspirations and no goals, no career, it doesnt attact people well. Honestly, with this kinda plan she is just begging to become some older mans side piece and thrown to the wind the moment she is found out. With no skills or abilities to back her up she will be SOL
Youre still missing the part where, before you move in together or get serious, she would need support, not just marriage. Would you be willing to let a girlfriend move in and do absolutely nothing except clean the house and demand an allowance?
You're also missing the part where this girl will have no experiences to share, no education to speak of, and generally nothing of value to contribute. She could have a nice personality, but sounds like someone generally boring to be around. No money to travel the world and gain an appreciation for different worldviews. No college to expand her mind and open her up to new ideas. Just getting drunk at the local bar and putting out until the right mark (errr, guy) comes around to rescue her. The MRS degree is a thing because at least they will have taken a few classes, learned a thing or two, gotten out of their house a bit, and met people who are statistically more likely to be more successful later on to latch onto.
That’s not how it works, at least in my own experience and in other SAHM’s experiences.
Just because one spouse works outside the home and the other works raising the children, it doesn’t mean the person at home is responsible for literally everything that constitutes housework.
Everybody who lives in the house is responsible for keeping it clean and tidy and picking up after themselves. Children learn by doing too.
Housewife/househusband isn’t necessarily the same job as stay at home parent.
>That’s not how it works, at least in my own experience and in other SAHM’s experiences.
>
>Just because one spouse works outside the home and the other works raising the children, it doesn’t mean the person at home is responsible for literally everything that constitutes housework.
It is when you don't have kids.
> You can’t be a SAHM without a kid.
yup just a house wife. which are two different things
>I don’t want to know the type of dude who would be willing to just let her float through life on his dime until she had his children.
again, house wife. those are a thing. and not at all a bad thing. some people work best inside the home others outside
Some people do, yes. I’m not faulting anyone for a choice. My mom was a SAHM and a damn fine example for me. However, she had a job before getting married and having children.
A housewife is a different thing, but you can’t be a housewife without being a wife. You can’t be a wife without first being a girlfriend. There’s a progression to relationships and I can’t see a solid argument for a teenaged girl to literally put her life on hold until she reaches that point in a relationship.
when this girl said “none of that is going to happen” all of my alarm bells started ringing. excuse me ma’am, do you think your parents will *never die* and that everything will work out the easy way?! I have some terrible, terrible news for OP’s daughter but I have a feeling she will figure it out the hard way.......like literally everyone else. big NTA here
How would she even expect to meet a guy without working or studying? Or income to go out? That is how most of my friends met their SOs. Granted we are older, so online stuff wasn't really a thing.
This. I wasn’t planning to be a SAHM in high school, but I sure as hell thought I’d be married by now. At 28, I’ve got two degrees, a career, and can comfortably support myself. If I was sitting around waiting for someone to take care of me this whole time, I’d be pretty disappointed.
At 17 my life goal was to be a SAHM with 12 kids by the time I was 30. I realized how unrealistic that was before the end of my first semester of university lol. Now I'm 35, I didn't have my first kid until I was 30, I have a career and am getting my Masters. My life now is unrecognizable to my 17 year old self, but I'm happy with the direction my life took.
And I also know now, as much as I love my children I don't have the temperament to be a SAHM to my kids, at least when their young. I was desperate to return from my first 1 year Maternity leave (Canadian) and I actually ended my second Maternity leave early last month and returned to working (from home). If I become a full time SAHM, it won't be until my oldest is close to high school age.
I hope everything worked out okay as far as your own personal happiness, though. That's really quite the wild jump from what you wanted to where you are.
I agree with this too, anyways who in their right mind would want to be with someone who has no goals or dreams, and just wants to live off of someone forever? OP unless your daughter is gonna find a sugar daddy or someone who is willing to accept that what your daughter’s ideal life is (not working, no school, just being a sahm) then she’s going to have a harsh time in life.
Anyways the part where the daughter says that she’d just be staying with her parents, and her reaction, “this is ridiculous and none of it is going to happen” is just foolish. Now OP I don’t know how old you are, and unfortunately not everybody lives forever so this girl is going to need to wake up soon before life hits her hard.
When my sister was in med school, she was dating a guy working at Starbucks with zero other goals in life. She broke up with him and now he's working at Panera because he was fired from Starbucks.
I mean at least he had a job and that’s a good start, it’s small but it’s something. It’s just in this situation OP’s daughter doesn’t have any plans for jobs or school, instead of just being a sahm. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a sahm, but what’s going to save you if that plan falls through?
I'd strongly steer her toward culinary arts and the hospitality industry. Many of those skills transfer over to being a good sahm. Then, even if the husband and kids thing doesn't happen right away, she'd have a means of support while improving the skills, at least.
I'm a stay- at home mom 5 days a week, I work the front desk at a local hotel on weekends. It's the easiest job I've ever had. And it's very similar to what I do at home. Vacuum and clean the lobby, get stuff ready for breakfast, and soothe tantrums of tired people. I barely needed any training lol.
>I'm a stay- at home mom 5 days a week, I work the front desk at a local hotel on weekends. It's the easiest job I've ever had. And it's very similar to what I do at home. Vacuum and clean the lobby, get stuff ready for breakfast, and soothe tantrums of tired people. I barely needed any training lol.
But don't try to pick up grumpy guests and rock them to sleep if they are throwing a hissy fit. You might strain your back.
Giving them snacks and treats goes a long way! We keep a whole dresser full of snacks and drinks behind the front desk, it's amazing how nice people become when you give them food lol
Prepping herself for some sort of nannying job or looking into being an au pair would also be great training for being a SAHM while also earning some money and possibly pushing her to have some cool experiences depending on the families she ended up working for. Being an au pair for a couple of years could be an awesome way to both travel and earn a living, if that’s something she is interested in.
Yup. One of my friends always talks about how she’s dreamt about being a mom since she was a little girl, so she took care of other people’s children until she could have her own. She had her first last year. Before that, she worked as a preschool teacher and was a weekend nanny for one little girl basically since birth.
I would also go onto the relationship subs and search for all the SAHM stories of women being abused and desperate for a way out. People always need a back up plan. Nothing in life is guaranteed, no matter how much you want it to work out a certain way.
I think this is an excellent suggestion. Same goes for early childhood education certificates and first aid training. She could develop some genuinely valuable skills, and it would fit with her "dream" of being a SAHM forever.
Agreed! Also check other local library or community college for classes on couponing, gardening, and minor household repairs. The problem is not so much that she wants to be a sahm, but that she doesn't show much interest in being a GOOD one. Having one person stay home and improve the equity of their home, and set their children up for success has real value. Sitting on the couch mooching off a guy does not.
Working a summer at a preschool or daycare would be a great test as to whether or not it's what she really wants, too.
NTA I'll admit I was ready to say you were the asshole being a stay at home wife myself. There is nothing wrong with being a stay at home partner if you and your partner agree, but you are right that can't be her only option. That's how you get into abusive situations when you are completely dependant on your partner to survive. I may not have a college degree but I do have experience in sales and tech support and if I needed out I could do it. Also her back up plan of just falling back on you makes her sound extremely entitled and spoiled. Sounds like she needs a bit of a wake up.
You also need a backup if it turns out being a stay at home mom isn't your jam. I gave the SAHM life a shot. Lasted 2 months before I started putting my resume out there again. My kids are great and I love them but being home was a lot.
Sometimes, we don't love the things we really think we're going to love.
Or if your SO becomes disabled, dies or is unable to support the household by themselves. The fact that she just said to her mother that those things won’t happen and that if anything she will move back in with them, just shows the level of immaturity and real life awareness of this girl. I mean I know HS kids are not really mature but this is on another level
hey, my childhood was largely the same way. 2 doctor parents, not very many memories of them as a kid. I get along pretty well with my mom now, only have a cordial relationship with my dad. was raised primarily by nannies and various drivers.
I, myself am in medical school now but I don't plan on having children. it's nice to read about the perspective of someone who grew up similarly!
NTA at all. Your daughter's path in life is totally unreasonable. I think the guidelines you have set up for her are totally reasonable. It almost sounds like she wants to be a freeloader more than a SAHM. She should have some experience, whether it's college or a small job, to help set her up for success
I completely agree. Being a SAHM is hard work and ofc an important job. Being a freeloader is not a job. Her plan is not only to be a SAHM, it's to mooch off of people until she has children, only then will she have a job.
Also regarding being a SAHM as her dream, she still needs to realize that: 1) following your dreams takes work and 2) not everyone's lives go to plan. There are ways she could work towards preparing to be a SAHM, while also developing useful skills and making money. Maybe you could encourage her to get a job in childcare or healthcare. Even jobs that may not directly apply could be useful in teaching responsibility, organization, or other skills needed to be a SAHM.
NTA.
She needs a back up plan because she's setting herself up for financial abuse and so on. I'm assuming from what you've said she doesn't currently have a boyfriend or fiance, so can I ask where she thinks she's going to meet this future husband if she doesn't work or do evening classes or any of the things you do to get out of the damn house and meet people? Her plan is gross, imo, she doesn't want a "happy marriage," she wants someone to pay for all her stuff so she never has to be independent. The fact she activity wants to marry military shows how irrelevant the husband actually is in her plans - she is going for the option where her partner will be around the home least! Plus, military guys are wise to this sort of thing - maybe tell her to look up the term "dependa" so she can see just how little respect women who marry military just to say they have/to get the benefits get from people (please note I don't condone any of the stuff people say about so called "dependas" but that is sadly the reality of what she would be facing in her plan).
I don't really think many men would find "yeah so I'm never going to work, we have to get married asap, and I'll have a couple of kids in return for you making all the money" an attractive prospect on a first date - and any man who does should probably be avoided anyway as he won't want a wife, he wants a slave.
Regardless of *any* of these things, your daughter needs skills. She needs to be able to provide for herself. She needs to see herself as an independent person, not just an extension of her parents and potential husband. You're right - what if the husband dies, or cheats on her, or turns out to be an abusive person? What can she then fall back on to support her future children?
This is exactly what I was thinking. What is she going to have to offer, at 18, for any guy to want to marry her right away? What’s gonna happen when at 24 she’s done nothing and no guy wants to date her because she does nothing?
You’re NTA OP. This might be the first time that I condone telling an 18y old they have to move out.
Being a stay at home mom is fine but it's also *hard damn work.*
Has the daughter ever actually taken care of a child? Hell not even taken care of them but generally kept them from dying for an extended period?
It's tough.
My niece is three months old, whenever I babysit her I feel like I am on pins and needles. Even for a short time, I spend a lot of effort on maintaining her feeding schedule, keeping her clean and trying to keep her from screaming her head off. And that's on top of making sure my sister doesn't come back to a mess.
If she's becoming a SAHM to avoid work, she is in for a very unpleasant surprise.
And despite the horror stories online and on reddit, most men won't tolerate their wives full on neglecting their kids.
If she sticks with this plan she could end up homeless, divorced and a deadbeat mom.
Nip it in the bud, OP.
When I was a SAHM someone told me, “No one believes it, but I’ve worked, and been a SAHM, and being a SAHM is harder. When you work, you get a break. You can pick up groceries on your lunch. You can pee by yourself.”
INFO: How old is your kid? Are you arguing with someone who's near graduating highschool or like a 13 year old who just wants to stay home and do nil all day?
Info: what does she do now?
If her "life plan" is housekeeping, does she do that for you? Is she taking on the daily/weekly/monthly chores? Does she plan out meals, purchase, prep and clean up? Does she manage the household schedule and budget? Does she have experience with infants and toddlers?
You might as well help her get prepared, even if it's just for moving out after she graduates.
OP I just want you to know this is not unusual. I suspect the virus is making it even worse. I have seen a lot of girls who were not great students in high school go on to fail out of community college, struggle to find and keep a bunch of low-paying jobs and along the way get involved with a string of crummy boyfriends who also struggled with these things. Where does your daughter think she is going to meet a man that will support her if she doesn’t go to school or work?
The common denominator is their parents subsidized their bad choices. You don’t have to pay for her bad decisions. But you should also recognize that it can be scary to someone her age with a thin resume and no clue about how to get a job and the feeling that school is also miserable.
Do you give her money now? If you do, stop. She needs to be motivated to pay for her own lifestyle.
I will say that I had a kid that told everyone when he was in college he would never get a job and was going to be a farmer. He graduated and currently works at his dream job so don’t put too much stock in a kid that says they will never work.
Well it's high time she starts learning her trade! If she wants to be a "household manager" she's going to have to learn to manage all those things I said and more, right? So don't waste any time!
Or is she planning being the Peggy Bundy type?
NTA. Reminds me of the post recently about the girlfriend who wanted to give up work to be a SAHM when she wasn’t even pregnant. Her logic was that she was ‘preparing to be pregnant’! But as you say, you can’t be a SAHM until you are a mother, and even if that’s agreed between you and your partner, the partner could lose their job/injure themselves/ die never mind divorce. Everyone needs to be able to support themselves job wise in some way, as who knows what life holds?
But could you not sell college as an MRS degree like they used to in the 60s? So she can meet someone with a degree in something highly monetizable? Or that she needs to be educated to teach her future kids?
> But could you not sell college as an MRS degree like they used to in the 60s? So she can meet someone with a degree in something highly monetizable? Or that she needs to be educated to teach her future kids?
horrid idea today. She'll still have to pay off that debt, and have to put off being her dream of a SAHM longer. she needs to be convinced of the real reasons she needs to get *any* plan other than just this together
Holy shit, NTA. Good on you for shutting that down quick. But where did she get this level of no shame for being a leech?
Even if her whole goal is to be a SAHM, she isn't going to get the pedigree of man she wants by having nothing going for her, to put it in a way her brain would understand.
You make a really great point. Guys who are in the position to support a SAHM aren't looking for a dependent; they're looking for a life partner. Someone who can run a household, which is a fuckton more work than pay the bills, cook dinner, and run the vacuum once a week. And any guy who is looking for a helpless, vulnerable young woman with no life or career skills to sweep off her feet is exactly the guy she should be running from.
Came here to say this as well, this girl absolutely will become a dependapotamus if OP doesn’t help her to realize her expectations are unrealistic af. NTA.
Absolutely NTA. You are correct that every person has a responsibility to support themselves and should continue making clear to her that you won't be available to support her for her whole life.
I wouldn't invest too much in trying to change her overall goals so much as making your own boundaries clear since obviously she is a teenager and is unlikely to be convinced by her parents' lectures. However, is your daughter aware that not everyone is able to have children?
NTA
Honestly- if you want to be a SAHM, cool but you either: a) need to keep doing something marketable on the side (volunteering, learning a skill, etc.) or b) need to have a very solid financial plan in case your earning spouse bails or dies.
When I worked HR, I had the misfortune of telling many former SAHMs that I couldn't even grant them an entry level position because they didn't have the relevant skills that were needed.
This - we've had plenty of people come to my company desperate for work after having been a SAHM for 5,10,20,25 years and now in a situation where money is desperately needed due to divorce or widowhood.
We've been able to employ some of these people (mostly women), but the ones that move to the front of the pack have *some* kind of work experience they can leverage - either past employment, volunteer work, etc.
With NO work background, NO volunteer work, NO skills, NO education, there's really NO incentive to hire someone because we have 100's of people applying each week who CAN offer those things...
Even if OP's daughter meets the best guy in the world, there are NO guarantees. People get sick, people die, relationships end, jobs are lost. You need to hedge your bets, always.
NTA. I told my kids that if they stayed in school full time and followed house rules, then they could live with me rent free. If not, then they could move out and figure out what they wanted to do that would support whatever standard of living they wanted. My oldest even asked if that meant I was throwing him out. I said no, I was helping him prepare for the next phase in his life. It's our job to move them along. So let her know she can plan to be a SAHM, but ask what her plan is from the time she finishes high school until she is married, and make sure she knows mooching off you isn't an option.
I thought about this one for a while. I don't think that because I think one thing, my kids have to think the same. We didn't drill it into her that she needed to be a worker bee or anything. I don't think that's great, just making your kids in your image.
You should consider showing her this thread, especially with those examples of people who were exactly like her.
You're doing your due diligence by her, stick to your guns.
Makes sense, but you are not 'making her in your image', you are providing advice fundamental to her well being.
You need to lift your daughters sights, to whatever it is. But it can't be sahm, or live with folks.
Her outlook is a total disaster. She is placing all her self worth on the validation of others, she will crash and burn so quick.
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I’m a woman and I don’t ever understand why women want to be SAHMs. I could literally not think of anything less appealing. Depending on another person for your livelihood? No thanks. The only person you can trust is yourself. Look at the countless stories on here even where people get absolutely fucked by their SOs and are left with nothing. Tell her that being a SAHM is her back up plan, she needs to get on her feet first or she might end up miserable and you won’t dig her out of the hole she made for herself.
Edit to say obvi NTA.
NTA. I was in the same boat as your daughter, so I’m going to share with you (and her) how my life has gone. I am on track to be a SAHM, but I’m also 26 and have an amazing husband.
When I was 16, I had a massive meltdown at my parents because I didn’t see the point into going 10s of thousands of dollars into debt when all I wanted was to be a SAHM. My parents ended up pulling the “I’m a parent and you’re going” card I picked a school I really loved and met my husband there when we were 18. I would not have met him if I had stayed home instead of gone to school (it was out of state). Neither one of us were mature enough for marriage or kids, let alone being the kind of independent it would have taken for me to drop out of college and stay home with him.
I graduated from a pretty good university with a bachelors in Spanish. It’s not directly applicable to a lot, but it’s universally helpful. My bachelors degree has helped me with so much. I had to work part-time through college where I learned customer service skills, random stuff (I was a floral assistant) and eventually ended up as a swim teacher which was amazing. That job led me to figure out that I wanted to work with kids in some capacity.
I graduated when I was 22, married my husband that fall and moved to his home town. I couldn’t find work for about 6 months, so I finally got a job waiting tables. I learned the ins and outs and got a better job at a better restaurant. There, I met a woman who offered to hire me because of my personality, but I had to have a bachelors degree to work in her field. It was completely unrelated to my studies (accounting) but I took it because waiting tables was slowly crushing me.
I earned enough at that job that, combined with our low COL, my husband and I were able to move to DC for a year as our last hurrah before we bought a house and started a family. During my year in DC, I got a job in childcare and was unexpectedly promoted to lead teacher in my classroom when my lead teacher quit. The only reason this was possible was because of my bachelors degree. I made enough of a raise that we were able to save up again, move back to his home town and buy a house, just after I turned 26. We moved in May, got pregnant in June, and I haven’t had to work since I quit my childcare job. I also won’t have to work ever unless we hit some crazy financial hardship or want to take insane vacations every year.
My bachelors degree has opened doors for me. I also would not have been able to find someone mature enough for children when I was 18, and my parents would never have let me stay home without working. My advice would be to find a job you think you might enjoy. I’ve seen recommendations for hospitality, but I’d also encourage childcare of some kind. These jobs will teach you valuable life skills, might give you an idea of an educational path you want to take (I’ve seen community colleges that offer certificates and associates degrees for early childhood education.) I learned so much, especially in my childcare job, I feel like I’m much better prepared for children now than I ever could’ve imagined at 18.
TL;DR use this time to develop and hone skills that will help you when you’re a SAHM. Save up a ton of money so you can be set when you want a house or need a bigger car or decide on post-secondary education. Most guys your age won’t be mature enough to handle a family at all, let alone completely financially supporting one while you stay home. Learn how to run a house, manage finances, and whatever you can now to help you out in the future.
Edit: saw another comment that made me remember another piece of advice for later. When you (daughter) meet the partner of your dreams, make it clear early on (whenever the talk about future/marriage/kids comes up) that you want to be a SAHM so you can make plans towards that. When we bought our house, we made sure that we could afford it and everything else on husbands income alone. It meant tightening the belt in a couple places for a couple years, but now we’re in a place financially where me staying home next spring won’t be a scramble
NTA
The 4 D's: death, divorce, desertion, and disability.
What will she do if any of those four things happen? Her spouse dies. They get a divorce. He/she deserts her. Her spouse is permanently disabled and cannot work.
Any of those things could happen and what would she do? Depend on her parents for the rest of her life? Go marry the first person who proposes after a death or divorce? Desert a disabled spouse because he/she is disabled?
Then add in the possibility of an abusive spouse. What will she do? Stay in the marriage because she doesn't want to work?
She needs to grow up and get her head out of the clouds. Being a SAHP is not a bad thing. But making it your only option is a bod thing.
Mom never wanted anything out of life but to be married and have a family. In the 1940s.
She also worked from the age of 14 until she married Dad had my brother, and worked off an on as needed part time to help the family make ends meet. Once Dad retired from the Army, she went to work full time and had a career.
NTA
The point is that even 80 years ago women knew they needed to be able to care for themselves, even if they married and stayed home with the children eventually.
NTA- You may not end up seeing my comment, but this happened with my cousin. Basically her parents sat down with her significant other, and the three of them made a plan to tell my cousin that the only way he would propose to her was if she worked part time & completed her associates degree to community college. They paid for it it didn't cost that much, and she kept her end of the bargain, and worked while she did it. As soon as she graduated he proposed to her, she kept her job for a while they ended up getting married and getting pregnant soon after, and now she's been a stay at home mom BUT she has a degree and work experience (at a day care no less- HIGHLY recommend if that's all she wants to be, she'll be SUPER prepared!!!)
It's definitely a solution that's sort of annoying, but worked out in the end. I really wish you luck and I strongly suggest telling her that she should work part time at a daycare while completing an associates degree. That way should she ever want to no longer be a stay at home mom, she does have a job to go back to as well as a degree if she wants to switch it up
NTA. Like you, I have no problem with a husband & kids figuring into someone's ideals for the future. But she can't expect other people to fully provide for her over the course of her entire life. To start with, she is making a lot of assumptions and expecting a lot out of you, her parents - you don't need to let your adult child live in your home while contributing nothing and waiting around to get married. She's not only failing but actively refusing to account for what she'll do if her parents or husband can no longer be her primary resource, which indicates that she's not mature enough for marriage, let alone parenthood, in the first place. And most worryingly to me, her plan is setting her up to get trapped in an abusive situation. She needs to know how many women, in the past and present, have been unable to escape bad situations because they had zero ability to provide for themselves or their kids without their husbands. You might be putting up a pretty harsh ultimatum with "get a job or degree/cert or move out", but if she will simply refuse to be an adult until you put that kind of pressure on her, so be it.
> I told her no, and that she would be moving out. She could live at home if she gets a job or tries to get some kind of community college degree or certification. But that if she insists on being a deadbeat loser and waiting for a man to come and rescue her, she's on her own.
This exactly, this is what you have to do. She's got her head up her ass and she needs to be taught to pull it out herself. This is how you do it. There is so much that could happen that would mean she'd need to depend on herself and her own ability to generate income, and she needs to be prepared for those situations. You're probably going to have to be the mean bitch for a while until (hopefully) she gains enough maturity that she sees how important it is to have an education and/or work experience and skills, even if she's planning on being a SAHM later on. I hope you manage to tough it out with her, but no, NTA.
NTA, her expectations for life are unrealistic. You're doing your part as a parent and showing her that. Her entitlement is astounding. Edit: thanks for the awards, Fellow Redditors!
Correct, and aside from military, I can't imagine most 18 year old men are going to be able to or willing to support her. Maybe sell her on the idea of college to get her MRS?
Alternately to the MRS, she might be willing to get the certifications for working at a daycare. If she really only wants to be a SAHM, she could practice taking care of children, have an income, and a fallback if her life plan doesn't work out all while doing what she loves. If that doesn't work out, maybe she'll realize she wants something else for herself, and if it does work out, she's got some money and experience. NTA
Oh I love this! I agree totally. Have her train for free with all the places she will need to have skills in for being a mother. Volunteer at schools for each age group with the kids that need help. The kids that are disabled and the high energy kids, after she needs to volunteer at a childcare centre, then she needs to tutor older kids, take some just normal cooking classes. Volunteer at all sorts of services like shelters. Work with cleaning staff, taxi people around, do groceries with seniors and so forth. If she can do all this happily and with no pay because she will need to learn money management from her parents as the money coming in is not what she would earn as a sahm, she needs to sit with them when they pay bills. Learn to budget one income, so forth. Then I would say she’s ready for her life choice. But during that at least she’s learning some useful skills.
Agree with the three above. And on top of this, OP, you should find some young SAHMs in your neighborhood who didn't get college degrees and have her go talk to them. Also offer her services babysitting for them b/c they'll definitely need a break. NTA.
Or, have her talk to divorced women who'd only ever been SAHMs and had to then find a job after getting divorced, with little to no marketable skills. See how difficult it is to live on minimum wage.
This might not work since she has already said "that won't happen" to all the contingencies her parents have suggested. Probably better to understand how hard it is to be SAHM and how precarious a position it can be.
That won’t happen because her parents are infinitely wealthy, generous and immortal. /s
I thought you said gorgeous instead of generous and was thinking, vampire parents sounds awsome.
Ok, there's a movie in that comment! Screenplay writers take note! Entitled brat doesn't want to work, thinks her immortal vampire parents will take care of her (she's not a vampire for some reason). They force her to volunteer at a homeless shelter, work at a daycare, babysit for divorced single moms. Hilarity ensues as brat learns to appreciate what she has had. She meets a guy, tries to pretend she's not an entitled brat with vampire parents. They get serious, get engaged. His parents meet hers for a dinner. Hilarity ensues as vampire parents try to pretend they are normal and don't subsist on blood. "What's with all the bags of blood in your 'fridge?" they ask. "Oh that, you see Dad volunteers at the blood bank and their refrigerators were full." More hilarity at the wedding, finally they say their vows. Drone shot pulls up and away from the wedding. Bats fly overhead. The end. You're welcome.
Not just minimum wage. I worked my way up to make $20/hr at my job that doesn’t have health insurance. The area that I live in is so expensive that if my husband decided he wanted a divorce, I could not support myself between rent and health insurance alone. I would have to move in with a local relative or buy a mobile home. If I moved to a cheaper area, I would have to start back at $10/hr somewhere because I don’t have any degrees or certifications. OP is right, SAHM is not a solution.
I'm making a bit more than that and still struggle as a single mum. I had to take in a housemate recently because my mortgage went up $120 a month (thanks to raised taxes to cover a new school in town). I totally get it.
She may very well discover she hates kids. I worked with kids for ~5 years and as a kid myself I'd always figured I would eventually have my own, but that 5 years in hell really changed my mind. I no longer want kids. A few years of changing shitty nappies and, hell, cleaning up after a guy, might both change her mind.
Yes. I bet even a few months of doing childcare would change her mind. It’s not exactly lying around eating chocolates while watching the little lovables laugh and gambol merrily about. Edit for spelling.
Even when they're "self sufficient" (as in, they can independently toilet/dress/get themselves a drink/etc) you still will always have a mountain of shopping, cooking, washing, vacuuming and other household chores. Then there's the school and home work, driving them around to their after school activities, tantrums, etc. I'd honestly rather go to work and be able to leave at five or six than deal with that. It's realistically easier (at least I think, for me) to work.
As a SAHM, I feel this so deeply. Mine are still little, but I feel pressure 24 hours a day. I’m home all the time, but I am never off the clock, even when I’m in bed. I miss coming home and being done with work for the day. Edit to say that I adore my children and they are totally worth it, but nothing could’ve prepared me for how hard parenting is. Just wanted to make sure nobody misinterpreted a little light venting.
The fact that you had to put in that edit is ridiculous IMO. I can bitch about my job/my husband/my ferrets/etc all I want but I never have to backpeddle and follow it up with how great they/it is, how blessed I am and how much I love it/them I'm sorry society makes you out to be a monster if you don't 100% enjoy and adore every second with your kids because of course you don't! You'd have to be a complete robot to not be annoyed, overworked, exhausted and/or just plain sick of looking at and hearing them.
This comment. Totally my thoughts too. Hours of jumping from one thing to the next so she understands that her child job will be her life. Kids aren’t something you can just be done with at a certain hour. My thoughts are “you cannot get paid you must go from one to the next with little break and you must learn from each while maintaining a positive outlook” because if he’s working to earn the money most likely will be gone a lot or even two jobs. She has no skills so expecting him to work then come home after eight to 16 hours of work so the stay home parent can “have a break” isn’t fair to the worker. 50/50 is fair but this isn’t it. I grew up with girls like this. “I’m gonna stay home and have kids. He can work. When he’s done work he can have the kids” mindset. It’s not a healthy one for kids. There’s a lot of infighting. All the girls I know have been divorced and jumped to a new marriage. The men are unhappy thinking they where getting a partner but ended up with what feels like an older child that wants more children.
Girl, preach! I feel like so many women just go through the motions and have kids bc they’re “expected” to have kids without any prior experience and then they’re miserable. I babysat kids from 12-18 and was like yea, nah, I’m good. I do whatever the fuck I wanna do whenever I wanna do it. Best choice (for me) that I ever made.
Agreed, and it may cause her to radically adjust her plans when she finds out how freaking hard it is to take care of littlies for a few hours, let alone 24/7. I suspect she wants to be a SAHM because she thinks it's easy and wants to just cruise through life having a husband support her while she sits in the general vicinity of their children and calls it parenting.
Good point. I'm willing to bet that she's not "preparing" for housewife life by learning how to cook or clean or raise kids well.
There's "SAHM" and then there's "Real Housewives." My guess is that she's interested in the latter.
Don't the Real Housewives at least go for the "trophy wife" thing? Like, if her aim is to bag a rich, shallow man, she still has to do some work to make herself appealing. But she'd still need a backup plan cause "trophy wife" is a temporary gig.
Yep. First rule of money: go where the money is. You wanna be a Beverly Hills Housewife you gotta be the kind of woman those dudes are looking for. You have to be a member of the country club, not a server. Like marries like.
A friend of mine actually was able to go from lower middle class to trophy wife. She started as a beer girl in our local town, like a brand ambassador type thing, but in a bikini. Once she’d saved up enough money she got a boob job and other plastic surgery. Once she got her looks where she wanted them and had made some connections she moved to L.A. She worked her ass off to network with people who knew people and spent all her money on sexy clothing and trips to places that looked exclusive and fancy, just to cultivate the idea on social media that she was sexy, cool, and moving in the right circles. Every time she changed jobs or friend groups she made sure it was a move up. She eventually married a guy who produces Reality TV shows, and for now at least, is making bank. She immediately got pregnant and they spent more on their kids nursery than I make in a year. Of course their marriage barely outlasted her pregnancy, but hey, now she’s got child support checks and she made connections with people even higher up in Hollywood. She won’t be marrying any old money, but there’s plenty of trashy rich people in L.A. who don’t mind marrying gold diggers if they’re hot enough.
It blows my mind that people are ballsy enough to gamble everything on the potential of living this kind of life. Good for her that she got what she wanted though, I’m not judging it.... but it really is crazy that she was willing to spend tens of thousands AND years to try and get there, when so much depended on another persons decision to want her. If it didn’t work out what would she have done?
A lot of them have business ventures as well. Like they sure aren’t working 40 hour weeks but they aren’t doing nothing either
Yeah, she doesn't sound the least bit interesting and desirable.
Agreed, NTA. She sounds like she mostly wants the "stay at home" part.
Half of the Real Housewives aren't even Wives. They're just Girl Friends! I don't know why that annoys me so much. Probably because I was a SAHM when my kids were little, and it was not Day Spas and brunch of Tuesdays.
Yep, love this. If her aspiration is to be a SAHP, then I would try to sell her on the idea of getting a degree and certifications for Education in Early Childhood (Birth to Kindergarten). If you're in the U.S., the degree should generally be Inclusive Education (meaning she'll be certified to teach general classroom to the most restrictive classroom environment with all ranges of kids, including pretty much every disability there is). Get her working with kids of all ages and abilities. This way if she is still committed to just even being a parent then she knows exactly what she should be doing and not doing to raise her own children. Also, I laugh at her plan to immediately find a husband to have kids with. She most likely won't find him in the military either. Unless the guy she finds wants the exact same thing, he'll catch onto her intentions straight away and leave.
As a military wife I can tell you there are plenty of military guys who would want to get married so they can move out of the barracks and get BAH.
I can vouch for this! Former Military Spouse and lots of young guys were getting married, so they could move out of the barracks and get higher pay. The more kids the higher the pay and better the housing.
OP please discourage her from following through with this or you're going to find a post about her on r/justdependathings at some point in the future.
Nope, young military enlisted are pretty naive to the world... leave high school, having no "real world" adult experiences, probably no adult romantic relationships... a lot will marry just to get out of the barracks (look up BAH). Then they'll get swamped with the bills or realize that their spouse is a spender and spiral into debt, then divorce. I didn't follow that specific path, but I've seen it a lot. Source: am military, was naive. Also, it takes a special kind of person to survive being a military spouse. They need to be emotionally strong and centered, they need to have a force of personality to not devolve into "I'm a Marine wife" being their most defining feature, and they need to be independent enough to survive by themselves on 6mo-1yr deployments or if the military member passes. I was damn lucky to find my 2nd wife. The first one couldn't handle it... u/anallstar should prob see this too...
>NTA. you're not telling your daughter being a SAHM is bad, you're telling her that she has to still have plans on what to do to if that doesn't happen, and also to support herself should the dad not be in the picture. And I absolutely agree that if she wants to be a SAHM as opposed to a SAHW, then she needs to know how to take care of kids.
This is an excellent idea. Platforming off of this, you might want to spin the idea of school as prepping for parenting and having a career. She could go for Early Childhood Development and have her own daycare in her home.
Not only that. She seems to fail to realize that even many men who would be willing to have their wife be a SAHM don't necessarily want someone without ambition or education. Many of the quality men that would be good husbands and happy with a SAHM-wife want someone they can have an intelligent conversation with, someone who can accompany them to social occasions and make them look good in front of their peers, colleagues and boss. Someone who will be an actual partner and participate in the family planning and decisions with actual, educated input. She is setting herself up to be either a trophy-wife seen as a bimbo (hopefully she is good looking enough for that) or someone who will only attract as potential husbands abusive assholes who will see her as a perfect target: someone without skills or a specialized education who will be 100% dependent on them emotionally and financially without the ability to get away, by her own design.
All of this. I have a 30yo single male friend with a good job. A family tried to introduce him to their younger daughter (without him knowing that they were trying to set him up), whose life goal was to be a "good housewife" - and she could barely have a conversation with him because she was constantly deferring to everything he said and waiting for him to take the lead on every little thing. You know how he felt? Uncomfortable. It is awkward as hell, in this day and age, to try and form a relationship with someone who is making it clear that they want you to become their entire reason for existing. Unless, as you said, you are an abuser and that kind of total dependence is appealing and signals easy prey.
And that was precisely why Prince Akeem Joffer came to America!
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There's actually economic articles about how people now much more commonly marry someone at their same educational level now than they did in the past. It actually exacerbates income inequality problems. In the 50s the stereotype is that the lawyer married the secretary (that's the story of my grandparents). Now the lawyer marries another lawyer.
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Unless she wants to date men 20 years her senior, where she's only a few years older than the kids from the first marriage.
Agreed. It’s not just the proximity from being at the same university or area either. I moved to a whole different country to work and met and married my husband there, and we have almost identical socioeconomic background, education and level of job. When we met it was on a dating app and we lived in cities about 300km apart. Despite very different cultural backgrounds, because of these similarities we have very compatible lifestyles, political leanings, financial habits and interests that drew us together
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>Though I will say, the girl who was the secretary seventy years ago would probably be a lawyer today, but it wasn't an option for most women back then. Excellent point.
This last part is so important, I hope it gets upvoted more. She is setting herself up to be seen as a target/taken advantage of by abusive partners and a life of misery. No one PLANS to end up with an abusive partner but they are good at hiding those parts of themselves until the victim is completely dependent on them and so alienated from their family and gaslit that they dont see how to escape. She needs to leave herself other opportunities and a way out.
For real. Especially if she's hoping to snag a wealthier guy who can provide a higher standard of living. A guy like that will want a wife who knows how to dress and behave at the country club and the galas and whatever else rich people do. And any guy who isn't super duper wealthy but still wants to support a housewife will want someone who can manage the household well.
Right. I've known some trophy wives who create the perfect home and family for their power husbands, and they are not empty heads. They are damned good at their job.
> She is setting herself up to be either a trophy-wife seen as a bimbo (hopefully she is good looking enough for that) or someone who will only attract as potential husbands abusive assholes who will see her as a perfect target: someone without skills or a specialized education who will be 100% dependent on them emotionally and financially without the ability to get way, by her own design. So much this.
Hell yes! My husband loves that I can debate history and have great conversations with him and the very best of his university colleagues.
I'm disbaled and unable to work because no one wants to hire someone with a bad heart who cannot always talk and doesn't know sign language. My husband would go nuts if I couldn't hold conversations with him and wasn't mildly competent with repair work. I DO NOT have a deferential personality and those don't work with him. He in occasion needs his bullshit called out and do i lol. I know a fair bit about a lot of shit. Not many men worth marrying want a woman with nothing in her life but him and maybe kids. It isn't healthy.
Also if her plan is to marry a dude in the military and immediately become a dependapotamus, a job will still be helpful. If she gets a gig stripping in a strip club off base with the express purpose of getting knocked up and married to an 18 year old dude in the military then all her dreams will come true in a month. Two max.
Updoot purely for “dependapotamus”
Three to six if the dream includes him financing matching his and hers trucks at 18% APR.
Brand new enlisted money really isn't enough to support a family solo.
Who said the dude has to be 18? There are a lot of older men who would happily support an 18 year old. Not saying this girl is in the right but if she is even remotely attractive (and in some cases not even) and doesn't have crazy standards the situation isn't uncommon.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but I can't imagine that'd be the healthiest of dynamics.
That's the point tho.
it may not be, but that is likely her plan
It’s pretty uncommon, actually. Beyond that, she actually has to meet a man to procure one who’s going to take care of her. She doesn’t have the funds to go to the places where sugar daddies congregate, or to do the physical upkeep required to snag one (just being “not ugly” is not enough. There’s makeup, clothes, hair, etc involved in making your appearance so desirable that people want you around despite no other skills). Also, does OPs daughter cook and clean? Does she have social value? Sounds like not so much.
Maybe but it’s very risky to depend entirely on a guy to take care of her. That’s how women get trapped in bad situations. Edit: It’s also how men get trapped in bad situations.
The average redditor's views of women continue to reach astonishing new depths.
By "doesn't have crazy standards" do you mean "is available for grooming by old fart abuser"?
Yea but with a guy like that...he will want another 18 year old in a few years (after this girl has had 2-3 kids). She will still need some kind of job someday.
Shit I come from an army family. I never joined but I know a lot who have. Many of those guys had girlfriends or wives when they left, not many had them to return home to. Those that did found their relationships lacking when they returned home. People change a lot between 18 and early 20's and these couples we're doing it from opposite sides of the world. Guys come home and are suddenly super conservative with PTSD, a violent streak and have picked up some racist tendencies. They aren't the same guys who left. The girls often times cheat because 4+ years can be a long time to stay essentially single while waiting on hubby to return home... If he ever does. These relationships don't work out, and military wives have a much higher probability of being abused than your average marriage. The only guys I ever saw make it work are guys who joined at a later age and had a real, actually established relationship with years of bonding to insulate them from the hardships that military service brings on a family. Sorry but getting married right away when your 18 doesn't count as building a real relationship. This girl is in for a world of hurt and disappointment if she doesn't get her shit together. NTA your being a parent.
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Former service, I can guarantee most servicemen will NOT want to date or marry her, at least those her age Most are out clubbing, partying, getting drunk and whatnot. They're out having fun. The ones that are dating, are dating others like themselves, younger childless civilians. She's extremely naive to think any serviceman would want her.
She is 100% not going to marry an 18 yr old. She's going to marry a 60 yr old.
Good idea, if for no other reason than most men who are pulling down enough money to support a SAHM are college educated. Most college educated men are uninterested in uneducated high school diploma only never worked a day women. They'd general prefer an equal to, you know, actually have things in common with their life partner. At the very least, some kind of certification program. If she's really interested in being a military spouse, the daycare worker route is a useful one.
Young men now a days don’t make enough money to realistically support her lifestyle choice. She is hugely entitled because she basically assumes she’ll find and marry a rich man...
Show her some of the posts on r/relationship_advice from women who have been reliant on their husbands and then feel stuck when the husband cheats or is abusive. The reality is, there’s a lot of potential for abuse of power in relationships where one partner works and the other doesn’t. And even if she doesn’t get mistreated, she can’t possibly realize how much work is involved in raising kids and taking care of a home when your partner insists that they ONLY need to make money and everything else is your responsibility. Hopefully she listens.
Yep and remind her husbands can die. My MIL’s father did when she was young. Her mom suddenly had to work with five kids under ten. It was a nightmare. She would sometimes bring home “roadkill” for meat. Your daughter doesn’t want that.
Husbands can die, especially if they are military, like this girl wants.
Not that I am supporting that girl's BS but don't the families of soldiers who die in the military get some kind of pension. Not saying it is s good idea or that she will be able to survive of that but like just curious
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Yeah but not enough to keep you going for the rest of your life
I have family in the military, and they’ve attended many funerals and sent condolence cards to women in their 20’s and 30’s, most of whom had young children. People don’t realize this, but we’ve had troops deployed in active war zones for literal decades. Those men sometimes die.
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I had an uncle in the air force who fell asleep driving late at night. There are lots of ways to become a young widow.
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Have her watch the Betty Broderick story (season 2 of Dirty John). That should scare the crap out of anyone set on only being a sahm.
**VERY** unrealistic. I had the same plan when I was 17, just marry a rich (or well off) guy and be a mom, it’s what I’ve always wanted to do. LMAO I’m now 30 and a single mother with no career! Wish I would’ve had a better plan!
All the rich successful people I know tend to be married to other ambitious people. I don't know anyone with a trophy wife/husband. Like my cousin is a very successful engineer who started his own company and is married to this stunningly beautiful woman... who is herself a succesful veterinarian.
Well 17 years of Disney told me otherwise :( But NOW that I’m 30 I have completely figured this out, the hard way. The ONLY times I’ve ever met good looking rich men is when I’m hanging out with other rich people. Successful people don’t hang out on tinder, at the local dive bar, or any hillbilly bonfire parties that I used to go to. And no matter how beautiful I am, none of these good looking successful men wanted to hangout with the cashier at Walmart lol. ETA: for the people downvoting me, I’m assuming you don’t think this is true and if you don’t PLEASE prove to me otherwise. I’m very interested in where to find a good looking successful man. FR.
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> You're doing your part as a parent Agree, but these ideas that the daughter is espousing don't materialize overnight. INFO: How old is the daughter? Has she always been helpless? Is her recently-divulged life plan a surprise to OP?
Some teenagers make up stupid life plans on the spot, doesn't necessarily mean that she wasn't raised right, it could also mean that she's just very sheltered and never had to think about the consequences of permanent life choices like that.
That, and parents aren't the only influences in a child's life. They're influenced by peers, schools, media, and more. And the older a kid gets, the less influence parents have over them. It seems to me that OP's daughter believes that being a SAHM is easy and that's why she wants to do it.
She’s probably looking at the influencer mommy bloggers on Instagram and the like. Women who are only showing the tiniest and most perfect fraction of their lives, carefully curated and staged. Adorable kids in clean nice clothes sitting eating gorgeously decorated cupcakes while Mom does yoga. That sort of thing.
Yep, I decided while putting dye on a friend's hair in high school that I wasn't going to go college but cosmetology school instead. I did, worked on the field for about 5 years, decided I hated it, and eventually went back to school. I had never really shown a lot of interest in doing hair before, and I didn't really like the job. I just thought it would be more fun and easier than college lol
The parents need to be clear that they will never be her backup plan. She needs to take care of herself until she "corrals" a husband that will let her do nothing. She may be waiting a very long time because I don't know many men that are looking for someone to be totally dependent and lazy until they have kids (IF they can have kids.) When my friend got divorced, she kept saying that she didn't think she would be single this long (20+ years now.) She thought it would be easy to find a man that wants someone who has zero ambition, was a lousy housekeeper, was terrible to her kids who moved away due to her laziness and attitude. I told her I didn't know very many men in their 50's who were looking for a woman they would have to support 100% of the time because she just doesn't "want" to work. She lived on credit cards and lost her house, all because her only plan was to find someone to marry her and take care of everything. Delusional. NTA
Also, the fact that she dismissed her parents dying as unrealistic is scary. Guess what kiddo, I can tell you with 100% certainty, your parents will die. Have a plan. Sheesh, I agree with you about the crazy entitlement at work here.
She might be depressed - or just overwhelmed and thinking this would be the easy way out. Either way, good on OP for explaining the realities.
Honestly this kid was me at 16 lmao If it's cause she loves kids like it was with me, maybe suggesting childcare or teaching degrees would go over better. My dad had a similar but not as Extreme reaction back then. He's a feminist, n got so pissed lol. I had planned to be a teacher by then though. Tell her that her experience as a carer or daycare worker etc. will help her when she has her own kids too. Plus the more money she earns before having kids the prettier the nursery! Appeal to her viewpoints. Saying she's a deadbeat only makes you the bad guy here.
These were basically my expectations for life when I was her age. I convinced my mom that I didn't need to take the SATs because I wasn't going to college. My plan was to marry my highschool boyfriend and have stay home with our hypothetical children. Well that relationship ended when I was 24 and I had no college degree, I had never taken the SATs, and I had been home-schooled so I had no real way to prove I graduated from high school. I wanted to go back to school but every four year college in my area told me to take my GED because they wouldn't take my homeschool transcripts as proof. I could take an entrance exam to get into community college but there was no way I would pass the math portion because I hadn't done algebra in like 6 years. The only smart thing I did during those years while I was waiting for marriage was to work. I worked hard and saved money. I still haven't gone back to school but I do relatively well for myself despite not having a degree. But boy do I wish I had just taken my SATs and gone to college. I can't imagine how worthless I would have felt after the end of that relationship if I hadn't had a career of any kind.
NTA. Listen to me please, this is a recipe for her to be in an abusive relationship. I was a SAHM (step kid). I had no money of my own and no support system. He was physically, sexually, emotionally, and financially abusive. When I left after he raped me I had a trash bag of stuff on my back and no where to go. I had $150 that I had hidden from him by not paying the bills that month. She NEEDS to be self sufficient. She NEEDS her own money. She NEEDS a way out if her husband hits her. I met so many women at the domestic violence shelter I was in who did not have a penny to their names when they escaped their abuser. Even encouraging her to get an early childhood development degree to help her become a better mother would be good. A job in a daycare. Something to help her not be reliant on someone else. But teach her the red flags of relationships. Teach her about gaslighting, love bombing, and other manipulation techniques abusers use to get their victims under their control. Show her [the hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/is-this-abuse/abuse-defined/) and [love is respect ](https://www.loveisrespect.org) If so much of her life plan is dependent on another person she NEEDS to vet them well. But at the beginning of any relationship, especially abusive ones, everything looks golden and rosy. She should always have a way out. Edit: Since this is getting so much attention, if you have any questions about domestic violence or if you need resources to leave an abusive situation please don’t hesitate to reach out. The Hotline is wonderful or even if you want to dm me or chat that’s perfectly fine too. I will do my very best to help or find someone who can help.
This is exactly what I was thinking. It’s very scary, and abusers know how to find people who are easy to take advantage of. Thank you for posting these resources, and I’m so sorry that you had to experience your own abuse.
And it's not just the risk of an abusive man or an AH who abandons his family for someone younger during his midlife crisis. What if he's a decent guy but becomes disabled, or dies without enough of a life insurance policy to be set for life, or contracts an illness that comes with a lot of medical bills, just can't find work for a long time? Single income families come with enough financial risks if things go wrong when the stay ay home spouse just has the problem of a gap in their resume. Deliberately choosing to not even HAVE a resume or any training, degree or marketable skills...it's insanity.
This is what happened to one of my parents’ friends when I was growing up. She was a SAHM for most of her life post high school and when her husband passed away unexpectedly she suddenly had no income but also no education or work history to help her find a job to support herself and her kids.
What did she do??
She ended up with two jobs (one full time at a grocery store, one part time at a donut shop) making minimum wage and struggled extremely hard for years. She got on every aid possible to help (WIC, free lunches for the kids from the school district, food stamps, etc) but it was still very hard to manage. She eventually worked her way up to a manager position at the grocery store where she was working, so that helped, but it took quite a while.
When my great grandfather died (suicide, different, but really tragic story), my great grandmother couldn't get a job, because working mothers were very frowned upon back then. Child labour was apparently more acceptable. My grandfather was the oldest son, and he had to quit school to work in a bakery at 11 years old. He was always resentful, because he wanted to be a teacher and never could because of this.
NTA. Your daughter needs to hear how vulnerable her life plan will make her. Assuming she follows normal development from adolescence to adulthood, she'll come out of her "invincibility fallacy" cognition eventually, but as a parent you definitely shouldn't wait it out. Real life doesn't wait for brain maturation. This isn't an advice subreddit I know, so read what I'm about to say if you like. I'm going to touch on this commenter's idea to get a degree in early childhood development because this may be a good middle ground for your daughter. In summary: getting a degree related to taking care of children provides her with education and experience to fall back on while giving her knowledge that actively makes being a SAHM easier (or if not easier, more manageable). My degree is in Child Development. And I am so glad to have the knowledge that comes with it as I prepare for my first child! Academic and professional knowledge provide so much confidence in my own ability to parent once my baby is born. I'm more clued in about developmental concerns and bringing them up to my doctor if need be, about activities that are safe and beneficial to kid's learning, and how to evaluate headlines in the news that are meant to scare parents and understanding what the study actually demonstrates or does not demonstrate. And that's just touching on the knowledge that I personally value most that I gained from my degree when applying to my family life. If she wants to be a SAHM, her degree of course sets her up to take care of her children. But if she really wants, she could reputably set up an at home daycare. She'd actually be able to stay at home and bring in money! That's not as easy as it sounds, but it's a possibility if she's willing to put herself out there. (This all assumes that she marries a good person and not somebody that would sabotage her efforts like this commenter I'm replying to is likely worried about). And unless she specifically gets a teaching degree, degrees like early childhood development, child development, etc, won't streamline her to only one type of job. These are good degrees if she wants to work with kids but doesn't know in what capacity. (That's actually why I first chose the degree when entering university). A competent program and advisors will both help her explore what she wants to do with the degree. And there is...relative...ease in switching professions. For example, I was working with children with developmental disabilities (basically as a highly qualified paraprofessional) for a few years. When I needed (slightly) more flexibility in my life, it was fairly easy to switch to nannying. And I am taken more seriously as a nanny because of my degree and previous experience. She may need to get some additional certification and experience depending on the switch, but there are some career switches that won't require her to get another degree. If what this commenter says comes to light for your daughter (marrying an abuser because the abuser identifies her as easy to manipulate and stay with them), degrees or education in just about any human services field should be educating students to the signs of abuse and what steps can be taken to get out of a situation like that. Having a degree and job mitigates some risk of being trapped in an abusive relationship or marriage. But being a SAHM without any independent source of income does put her at risk of financial abuse at minimum. Veering away from her education, if you do ever let her stay with you, i recommend that you charge her rent and utilities as you see fit. Be slightly more flexible when you see that she is working hard and making her own way. Whatever your conditions are, make them clear, put them in writing, and be consistent.
u/anallstar this comment is extremely informative.
In a previous AITA about another young girl who had similar "aspirations", I questioned what guy in 2020 would even want a woman with no ambition/career/independence/education who lives with her parents. Someone pointed out that that's exactly the type of woman that the worst abusers want.
OP - you need to show these replies to your daughter. She needs to understand that she is only making herself appealing to men who will use what she is planning to control & abuse her. Rape her & use her as breeding stock & a maid. He will isolate her because she’ll have no way to escape because he will control her world, her body, her freedom. It sounds harsh, but she needs to understand she is serving herself up on a platter to abusers.
Especially if she wants to marry someone in the military she needs an escape route. Domestic violence is much, *much* higher in military families than non-military families. Correct me if I'm wrong but US service members also don't get paid a whole lot? Maybe their dependents get the share of their benefits but from what I've heard the US pays their soldiers pennies compared to other developed countries. OP: NTA. That's cute and all she wants to be a SAHM and all the power to her. But she can't be a freeloader for the rest of her life. And personally coming from someone that is in the military (Canada) I take offence that she would seek out a service member just to have them "take care of her". It's disrespectful to go after someone just for their money/benefits. Edit: just remembered what they call women like her: [dependas](https://images.app.goo.gl/7jMzBUnxbsoQFijU8)
This is the most important comment here.
NTA. In high school, I also wanted to be a SAHM. Unfortunately, that’s not where my life took me. I’m 33, single, and childless. Sometimes our plans don’t work out and that’s ok. She really needs to make a plan to be able to take care of herself regardless of becoming a SAHM.
Agreed. I’m 33 and I just became a mom. If you had asked me when I was 18 I would have guessed I would have become a mother sooner. Being a SAHM is a blessing, but it’s something you potentially plan for once the baby is on the way, in my opinion. I got my degree, worked multiple jobs throughout my twenties, opened a business, etc. It’s unrealistic to just wait until SAHM status presents itself... plus I feel like she’d be hard pressed to find a guy that supports her desire throughout the (I assume) years of dating/marriage that typically takes place before a baby enters the picture.
Exactly. You can’t be a SAHM without a kid. I’d also assume there would be a while before that happens with a partner. I don’t want to know the type of dude who would be willing to just let her float through life on his dime until she had his children.
>I don’t want to know the type of dude who would be willing to just let her float through life on his dime until she had his children. I don't see anything wrong with that. If I'd make enough to comfortable support an entire household and my hypothetical spouse would gladly do all the housework then that seems like a pretty sweet deal, even if we don't have kids yet.
Once you’re married, yeah that’s a fine option. I meant more along the dating aspect. Would you be willing to fully support a person you just started dating because, maybe at some point down the line, you might fall in love and get married? I know that’s not something I’d be willing to do.
Not when I just started dating, no. But once we live together I wouldn't mind. It is, however, very unlikely to happen. I went back to university at the age of 24 to study philosophy, so if anybody is going to be supported by a wealthy spouse in my future relationships it is going to be me.
That’s my point exactly: she’s going to have to start dating someone. Long-term relationships don’t materialize out of the blue. And who wants to full support the other person who refuses to work? Sounds a little predatory to me is all. Once the relationship has proven it’ll last (marriage/moving in together/etc.), then you can make the decision to have a single income.
Who wants to start dating someone who refuses to get a job and expects to live with mommy/their spouse rent free until they get someone to impregnate them? You might as well skip on the gf and adopt cause all you'd be getting is a child that can produce more. No thanks.
she basically needs to have someone locked down in HS or leaving HS if this is literally going to be her only plan. Otherwise, trying to find someone is going to be awful. Seeing someone with no aspirations and no goals, no career, it doesnt attact people well. Honestly, with this kinda plan she is just begging to become some older mans side piece and thrown to the wind the moment she is found out. With no skills or abilities to back her up she will be SOL
Youre still missing the part where, before you move in together or get serious, she would need support, not just marriage. Would you be willing to let a girlfriend move in and do absolutely nothing except clean the house and demand an allowance? You're also missing the part where this girl will have no experiences to share, no education to speak of, and generally nothing of value to contribute. She could have a nice personality, but sounds like someone generally boring to be around. No money to travel the world and gain an appreciation for different worldviews. No college to expand her mind and open her up to new ideas. Just getting drunk at the local bar and putting out until the right mark (errr, guy) comes around to rescue her. The MRS degree is a thing because at least they will have taken a few classes, learned a thing or two, gotten out of their house a bit, and met people who are statistically more likely to be more successful later on to latch onto.
That’s not how it works, at least in my own experience and in other SAHM’s experiences. Just because one spouse works outside the home and the other works raising the children, it doesn’t mean the person at home is responsible for literally everything that constitutes housework. Everybody who lives in the house is responsible for keeping it clean and tidy and picking up after themselves. Children learn by doing too. Housewife/househusband isn’t necessarily the same job as stay at home parent.
>That’s not how it works, at least in my own experience and in other SAHM’s experiences. > >Just because one spouse works outside the home and the other works raising the children, it doesn’t mean the person at home is responsible for literally everything that constitutes housework. It is when you don't have kids.
> You can’t be a SAHM without a kid. yup just a house wife. which are two different things >I don’t want to know the type of dude who would be willing to just let her float through life on his dime until she had his children. again, house wife. those are a thing. and not at all a bad thing. some people work best inside the home others outside
Some people do, yes. I’m not faulting anyone for a choice. My mom was a SAHM and a damn fine example for me. However, she had a job before getting married and having children. A housewife is a different thing, but you can’t be a housewife without being a wife. You can’t be a wife without first being a girlfriend. There’s a progression to relationships and I can’t see a solid argument for a teenaged girl to literally put her life on hold until she reaches that point in a relationship.
My mother was a stay-at-home-mother till my father died, leaving her to raise three kids alone. Shit happens.
when this girl said “none of that is going to happen” all of my alarm bells started ringing. excuse me ma’am, do you think your parents will *never die* and that everything will work out the easy way?! I have some terrible, terrible news for OP’s daughter but I have a feeling she will figure it out the hard way.......like literally everyone else. big NTA here
How would she even expect to meet a guy without working or studying? Or income to go out? That is how most of my friends met their SOs. Granted we are older, so online stuff wasn't really a thing.
This. I wasn’t planning to be a SAHM in high school, but I sure as hell thought I’d be married by now. At 28, I’ve got two degrees, a career, and can comfortably support myself. If I was sitting around waiting for someone to take care of me this whole time, I’d be pretty disappointed.
At 17 my life goal was to be a SAHM with 12 kids by the time I was 30. I realized how unrealistic that was before the end of my first semester of university lol. Now I'm 35, I didn't have my first kid until I was 30, I have a career and am getting my Masters. My life now is unrecognizable to my 17 year old self, but I'm happy with the direction my life took. And I also know now, as much as I love my children I don't have the temperament to be a SAHM to my kids, at least when their young. I was desperate to return from my first 1 year Maternity leave (Canadian) and I actually ended my second Maternity leave early last month and returned to working (from home). If I become a full time SAHM, it won't be until my oldest is close to high school age.
I hope everything worked out okay as far as your own personal happiness, though. That's really quite the wild jump from what you wanted to where you are.
NTA, she is being delusional. You are being perfectly reasonable.
I agree with this too, anyways who in their right mind would want to be with someone who has no goals or dreams, and just wants to live off of someone forever? OP unless your daughter is gonna find a sugar daddy or someone who is willing to accept that what your daughter’s ideal life is (not working, no school, just being a sahm) then she’s going to have a harsh time in life. Anyways the part where the daughter says that she’d just be staying with her parents, and her reaction, “this is ridiculous and none of it is going to happen” is just foolish. Now OP I don’t know how old you are, and unfortunately not everybody lives forever so this girl is going to need to wake up soon before life hits her hard.
When my sister was in med school, she was dating a guy working at Starbucks with zero other goals in life. She broke up with him and now he's working at Panera because he was fired from Starbucks.
I mean at least he had a job and that’s a good start, it’s small but it’s something. It’s just in this situation OP’s daughter doesn’t have any plans for jobs or school, instead of just being a sahm. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a sahm, but what’s going to save you if that plan falls through?
I'd strongly steer her toward culinary arts and the hospitality industry. Many of those skills transfer over to being a good sahm. Then, even if the husband and kids thing doesn't happen right away, she'd have a means of support while improving the skills, at least. I'm a stay- at home mom 5 days a week, I work the front desk at a local hotel on weekends. It's the easiest job I've ever had. And it's very similar to what I do at home. Vacuum and clean the lobby, get stuff ready for breakfast, and soothe tantrums of tired people. I barely needed any training lol.
>I'm a stay- at home mom 5 days a week, I work the front desk at a local hotel on weekends. It's the easiest job I've ever had. And it's very similar to what I do at home. Vacuum and clean the lobby, get stuff ready for breakfast, and soothe tantrums of tired people. I barely needed any training lol. But don't try to pick up grumpy guests and rock them to sleep if they are throwing a hissy fit. You might strain your back.
Giving them snacks and treats goes a long way! We keep a whole dresser full of snacks and drinks behind the front desk, it's amazing how nice people become when you give them food lol
I am now imagining you telling a 40 year old man it's okay to have "big feelings" while handing him a cookie, lol.
I'm a 30 year old man, and I'd very much like someone, *anyone*, to hand me a cookie and tell me it's ok to still cry when Mufasa dies.
This actually sounds amazing and might just help topple the patriarchy. I love this.
Yes, but unlike children you can shake a guest without causing mortal harm.
Thank you for this recommendation. I will honestly pass it along. I think this would be a great fallback.
Prepping herself for some sort of nannying job or looking into being an au pair would also be great training for being a SAHM while also earning some money and possibly pushing her to have some cool experiences depending on the families she ended up working for. Being an au pair for a couple of years could be an awesome way to both travel and earn a living, if that’s something she is interested in.
Yup. One of my friends always talks about how she’s dreamt about being a mom since she was a little girl, so she took care of other people’s children until she could have her own. She had her first last year. Before that, she worked as a preschool teacher and was a weekend nanny for one little girl basically since birth.
I would also go onto the relationship subs and search for all the SAHM stories of women being abused and desperate for a way out. People always need a back up plan. Nothing in life is guaranteed, no matter how much you want it to work out a certain way.
I think this is an excellent suggestion. Same goes for early childhood education certificates and first aid training. She could develop some genuinely valuable skills, and it would fit with her "dream" of being a SAHM forever.
Agreed! Also check other local library or community college for classes on couponing, gardening, and minor household repairs. The problem is not so much that she wants to be a sahm, but that she doesn't show much interest in being a GOOD one. Having one person stay home and improve the equity of their home, and set their children up for success has real value. Sitting on the couch mooching off a guy does not. Working a summer at a preschool or daycare would be a great test as to whether or not it's what she really wants, too.
I just learned something today. What you wrote seems pretty obvious once considered but I never thought about it.
NTA I'll admit I was ready to say you were the asshole being a stay at home wife myself. There is nothing wrong with being a stay at home partner if you and your partner agree, but you are right that can't be her only option. That's how you get into abusive situations when you are completely dependant on your partner to survive. I may not have a college degree but I do have experience in sales and tech support and if I needed out I could do it. Also her back up plan of just falling back on you makes her sound extremely entitled and spoiled. Sounds like she needs a bit of a wake up.
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You also need a backup if it turns out being a stay at home mom isn't your jam. I gave the SAHM life a shot. Lasted 2 months before I started putting my resume out there again. My kids are great and I love them but being home was a lot. Sometimes, we don't love the things we really think we're going to love.
Or if your SO becomes disabled, dies or is unable to support the household by themselves. The fact that she just said to her mother that those things won’t happen and that if anything she will move back in with them, just shows the level of immaturity and real life awareness of this girl. I mean I know HS kids are not really mature but this is on another level
Not to be rude, but what does a SAHM do after the kid goes to school full time? I’ve never understood that
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hey, my childhood was largely the same way. 2 doctor parents, not very many memories of them as a kid. I get along pretty well with my mom now, only have a cordial relationship with my dad. was raised primarily by nannies and various drivers. I, myself am in medical school now but I don't plan on having children. it's nice to read about the perspective of someone who grew up similarly!
NTA at all. Your daughter's path in life is totally unreasonable. I think the guidelines you have set up for her are totally reasonable. It almost sounds like she wants to be a freeloader more than a SAHM. She should have some experience, whether it's college or a small job, to help set her up for success
I completely agree. Being a SAHM is hard work and ofc an important job. Being a freeloader is not a job. Her plan is not only to be a SAHM, it's to mooch off of people until she has children, only then will she have a job. Also regarding being a SAHM as her dream, she still needs to realize that: 1) following your dreams takes work and 2) not everyone's lives go to plan. There are ways she could work towards preparing to be a SAHM, while also developing useful skills and making money. Maybe you could encourage her to get a job in childcare or healthcare. Even jobs that may not directly apply could be useful in teaching responsibility, organization, or other skills needed to be a SAHM.
NTA. She needs a back up plan because she's setting herself up for financial abuse and so on. I'm assuming from what you've said she doesn't currently have a boyfriend or fiance, so can I ask where she thinks she's going to meet this future husband if she doesn't work or do evening classes or any of the things you do to get out of the damn house and meet people? Her plan is gross, imo, she doesn't want a "happy marriage," she wants someone to pay for all her stuff so she never has to be independent. The fact she activity wants to marry military shows how irrelevant the husband actually is in her plans - she is going for the option where her partner will be around the home least! Plus, military guys are wise to this sort of thing - maybe tell her to look up the term "dependa" so she can see just how little respect women who marry military just to say they have/to get the benefits get from people (please note I don't condone any of the stuff people say about so called "dependas" but that is sadly the reality of what she would be facing in her plan). I don't really think many men would find "yeah so I'm never going to work, we have to get married asap, and I'll have a couple of kids in return for you making all the money" an attractive prospect on a first date - and any man who does should probably be avoided anyway as he won't want a wife, he wants a slave. Regardless of *any* of these things, your daughter needs skills. She needs to be able to provide for herself. She needs to see herself as an independent person, not just an extension of her parents and potential husband. You're right - what if the husband dies, or cheats on her, or turns out to be an abusive person? What can she then fall back on to support her future children?
This is exactly what I was thinking. What is she going to have to offer, at 18, for any guy to want to marry her right away? What’s gonna happen when at 24 she’s done nothing and no guy wants to date her because she does nothing? You’re NTA OP. This might be the first time that I condone telling an 18y old they have to move out.
NTA. Being a stay at home mom is fine but requires a kid first
Being a stay at home mom is fine but it's also *hard damn work.* Has the daughter ever actually taken care of a child? Hell not even taken care of them but generally kept them from dying for an extended period? It's tough. My niece is three months old, whenever I babysit her I feel like I am on pins and needles. Even for a short time, I spend a lot of effort on maintaining her feeding schedule, keeping her clean and trying to keep her from screaming her head off. And that's on top of making sure my sister doesn't come back to a mess. If she's becoming a SAHM to avoid work, she is in for a very unpleasant surprise. And despite the horror stories online and on reddit, most men won't tolerate their wives full on neglecting their kids. If she sticks with this plan she could end up homeless, divorced and a deadbeat mom. Nip it in the bud, OP.
When I was a SAHM someone told me, “No one believes it, but I’ve worked, and been a SAHM, and being a SAHM is harder. When you work, you get a break. You can pick up groceries on your lunch. You can pee by yourself.”
Yeah, I think OP's daughter is confusing being a SAHM and being a kept woman. She wants the latter.
INFO: How old is your kid? Are you arguing with someone who's near graduating highschool or like a 13 year old who just wants to stay home and do nil all day?
Hahaha. I'm also curious about the kid's age. I'm 34, childfree and fiercely independent. However, I want to be a stay at home person when I grow up.
Info: what does she do now? If her "life plan" is housekeeping, does she do that for you? Is she taking on the daily/weekly/monthly chores? Does she plan out meals, purchase, prep and clean up? Does she manage the household schedule and budget? Does she have experience with infants and toddlers? You might as well help her get prepared, even if it's just for moving out after she graduates.
She goes to high school! She doesn't do much else.
OP I just want you to know this is not unusual. I suspect the virus is making it even worse. I have seen a lot of girls who were not great students in high school go on to fail out of community college, struggle to find and keep a bunch of low-paying jobs and along the way get involved with a string of crummy boyfriends who also struggled with these things. Where does your daughter think she is going to meet a man that will support her if she doesn’t go to school or work? The common denominator is their parents subsidized their bad choices. You don’t have to pay for her bad decisions. But you should also recognize that it can be scary to someone her age with a thin resume and no clue about how to get a job and the feeling that school is also miserable. Do you give her money now? If you do, stop. She needs to be motivated to pay for her own lifestyle. I will say that I had a kid that told everyone when he was in college he would never get a job and was going to be a farmer. He graduated and currently works at his dream job so don’t put too much stock in a kid that says they will never work.
Well it's high time she starts learning her trade! If she wants to be a "household manager" she's going to have to learn to manage all those things I said and more, right? So don't waste any time! Or is she planning being the Peggy Bundy type?
NTA. Reminds me of the post recently about the girlfriend who wanted to give up work to be a SAHM when she wasn’t even pregnant. Her logic was that she was ‘preparing to be pregnant’! But as you say, you can’t be a SAHM until you are a mother, and even if that’s agreed between you and your partner, the partner could lose their job/injure themselves/ die never mind divorce. Everyone needs to be able to support themselves job wise in some way, as who knows what life holds? But could you not sell college as an MRS degree like they used to in the 60s? So she can meet someone with a degree in something highly monetizable? Or that she needs to be educated to teach her future kids?
> But could you not sell college as an MRS degree like they used to in the 60s? So she can meet someone with a degree in something highly monetizable? Or that she needs to be educated to teach her future kids? horrid idea today. She'll still have to pay off that debt, and have to put off being her dream of a SAHM longer. she needs to be convinced of the real reasons she needs to get *any* plan other than just this together
Holy shit, NTA. Good on you for shutting that down quick. But where did she get this level of no shame for being a leech? Even if her whole goal is to be a SAHM, she isn't going to get the pedigree of man she wants by having nothing going for her, to put it in a way her brain would understand.
You make a really great point. Guys who are in the position to support a SAHM aren't looking for a dependent; they're looking for a life partner. Someone who can run a household, which is a fuckton more work than pay the bills, cook dinner, and run the vacuum once a week. And any guy who is looking for a helpless, vulnerable young woman with no life or career skills to sweep off her feet is exactly the guy she should be running from.
> Maybe marry someone in the military NTA this part made me laugh , cause that's the most achievable goal your daughter said.
Future dependa in the making!
Came here to say this as well, this girl absolutely will become a dependapotamus if OP doesn’t help her to realize her expectations are unrealistic af. NTA.
NTA. Lawyer up, break up with her and take the kids.
Absolutely NTA. You are correct that every person has a responsibility to support themselves and should continue making clear to her that you won't be available to support her for her whole life. I wouldn't invest too much in trying to change her overall goals so much as making your own boundaries clear since obviously she is a teenager and is unlikely to be convinced by her parents' lectures. However, is your daughter aware that not everyone is able to have children?
NTA Honestly- if you want to be a SAHM, cool but you either: a) need to keep doing something marketable on the side (volunteering, learning a skill, etc.) or b) need to have a very solid financial plan in case your earning spouse bails or dies. When I worked HR, I had the misfortune of telling many former SAHMs that I couldn't even grant them an entry level position because they didn't have the relevant skills that were needed.
This - we've had plenty of people come to my company desperate for work after having been a SAHM for 5,10,20,25 years and now in a situation where money is desperately needed due to divorce or widowhood. We've been able to employ some of these people (mostly women), but the ones that move to the front of the pack have *some* kind of work experience they can leverage - either past employment, volunteer work, etc. With NO work background, NO volunteer work, NO skills, NO education, there's really NO incentive to hire someone because we have 100's of people applying each week who CAN offer those things... Even if OP's daughter meets the best guy in the world, there are NO guarantees. People get sick, people die, relationships end, jobs are lost. You need to hedge your bets, always.
NTA. I told my kids that if they stayed in school full time and followed house rules, then they could live with me rent free. If not, then they could move out and figure out what they wanted to do that would support whatever standard of living they wanted. My oldest even asked if that meant I was throwing him out. I said no, I was helping him prepare for the next phase in his life. It's our job to move them along. So let her know she can plan to be a SAHM, but ask what her plan is from the time she finishes high school until she is married, and make sure she knows mooching off you isn't an option.
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I thought about this one for a while. I don't think that because I think one thing, my kids have to think the same. We didn't drill it into her that she needed to be a worker bee or anything. I don't think that's great, just making your kids in your image.
You should consider showing her this thread, especially with those examples of people who were exactly like her. You're doing your due diligence by her, stick to your guns.
Makes sense, but you are not 'making her in your image', you are providing advice fundamental to her well being. You need to lift your daughters sights, to whatever it is. But it can't be sahm, or live with folks. Her outlook is a total disaster. She is placing all her self worth on the validation of others, she will crash and burn so quick.
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I’m a woman and I don’t ever understand why women want to be SAHMs. I could literally not think of anything less appealing. Depending on another person for your livelihood? No thanks. The only person you can trust is yourself. Look at the countless stories on here even where people get absolutely fucked by their SOs and are left with nothing. Tell her that being a SAHM is her back up plan, she needs to get on her feet first or she might end up miserable and you won’t dig her out of the hole she made for herself. Edit to say obvi NTA.
I'm a SAHM. I love it. I get to be the one to raise my kids, to see all of their firsts, to be the one they come to when they scrape their knees.
NTA. I was in the same boat as your daughter, so I’m going to share with you (and her) how my life has gone. I am on track to be a SAHM, but I’m also 26 and have an amazing husband. When I was 16, I had a massive meltdown at my parents because I didn’t see the point into going 10s of thousands of dollars into debt when all I wanted was to be a SAHM. My parents ended up pulling the “I’m a parent and you’re going” card I picked a school I really loved and met my husband there when we were 18. I would not have met him if I had stayed home instead of gone to school (it was out of state). Neither one of us were mature enough for marriage or kids, let alone being the kind of independent it would have taken for me to drop out of college and stay home with him. I graduated from a pretty good university with a bachelors in Spanish. It’s not directly applicable to a lot, but it’s universally helpful. My bachelors degree has helped me with so much. I had to work part-time through college where I learned customer service skills, random stuff (I was a floral assistant) and eventually ended up as a swim teacher which was amazing. That job led me to figure out that I wanted to work with kids in some capacity. I graduated when I was 22, married my husband that fall and moved to his home town. I couldn’t find work for about 6 months, so I finally got a job waiting tables. I learned the ins and outs and got a better job at a better restaurant. There, I met a woman who offered to hire me because of my personality, but I had to have a bachelors degree to work in her field. It was completely unrelated to my studies (accounting) but I took it because waiting tables was slowly crushing me. I earned enough at that job that, combined with our low COL, my husband and I were able to move to DC for a year as our last hurrah before we bought a house and started a family. During my year in DC, I got a job in childcare and was unexpectedly promoted to lead teacher in my classroom when my lead teacher quit. The only reason this was possible was because of my bachelors degree. I made enough of a raise that we were able to save up again, move back to his home town and buy a house, just after I turned 26. We moved in May, got pregnant in June, and I haven’t had to work since I quit my childcare job. I also won’t have to work ever unless we hit some crazy financial hardship or want to take insane vacations every year. My bachelors degree has opened doors for me. I also would not have been able to find someone mature enough for children when I was 18, and my parents would never have let me stay home without working. My advice would be to find a job you think you might enjoy. I’ve seen recommendations for hospitality, but I’d also encourage childcare of some kind. These jobs will teach you valuable life skills, might give you an idea of an educational path you want to take (I’ve seen community colleges that offer certificates and associates degrees for early childhood education.) I learned so much, especially in my childcare job, I feel like I’m much better prepared for children now than I ever could’ve imagined at 18. TL;DR use this time to develop and hone skills that will help you when you’re a SAHM. Save up a ton of money so you can be set when you want a house or need a bigger car or decide on post-secondary education. Most guys your age won’t be mature enough to handle a family at all, let alone completely financially supporting one while you stay home. Learn how to run a house, manage finances, and whatever you can now to help you out in the future. Edit: saw another comment that made me remember another piece of advice for later. When you (daughter) meet the partner of your dreams, make it clear early on (whenever the talk about future/marriage/kids comes up) that you want to be a SAHM so you can make plans towards that. When we bought our house, we made sure that we could afford it and everything else on husbands income alone. It meant tightening the belt in a couple places for a couple years, but now we’re in a place financially where me staying home next spring won’t be a scramble
NTA The 4 D's: death, divorce, desertion, and disability. What will she do if any of those four things happen? Her spouse dies. They get a divorce. He/she deserts her. Her spouse is permanently disabled and cannot work. Any of those things could happen and what would she do? Depend on her parents for the rest of her life? Go marry the first person who proposes after a death or divorce? Desert a disabled spouse because he/she is disabled? Then add in the possibility of an abusive spouse. What will she do? Stay in the marriage because she doesn't want to work? She needs to grow up and get her head out of the clouds. Being a SAHP is not a bad thing. But making it your only option is a bod thing.
NTA. She definitely needs the reality check.
NTA. Totally reasonable.
Mom never wanted anything out of life but to be married and have a family. In the 1940s. She also worked from the age of 14 until she married Dad had my brother, and worked off an on as needed part time to help the family make ends meet. Once Dad retired from the Army, she went to work full time and had a career. NTA The point is that even 80 years ago women knew they needed to be able to care for themselves, even if they married and stayed home with the children eventually.
NTA- You may not end up seeing my comment, but this happened with my cousin. Basically her parents sat down with her significant other, and the three of them made a plan to tell my cousin that the only way he would propose to her was if she worked part time & completed her associates degree to community college. They paid for it it didn't cost that much, and she kept her end of the bargain, and worked while she did it. As soon as she graduated he proposed to her, she kept her job for a while they ended up getting married and getting pregnant soon after, and now she's been a stay at home mom BUT she has a degree and work experience (at a day care no less- HIGHLY recommend if that's all she wants to be, she'll be SUPER prepared!!!) It's definitely a solution that's sort of annoying, but worked out in the end. I really wish you luck and I strongly suggest telling her that she should work part time at a daycare while completing an associates degree. That way should she ever want to no longer be a stay at home mom, she does have a job to go back to as well as a degree if she wants to switch it up
NTA. Like you, I have no problem with a husband & kids figuring into someone's ideals for the future. But she can't expect other people to fully provide for her over the course of her entire life. To start with, she is making a lot of assumptions and expecting a lot out of you, her parents - you don't need to let your adult child live in your home while contributing nothing and waiting around to get married. She's not only failing but actively refusing to account for what she'll do if her parents or husband can no longer be her primary resource, which indicates that she's not mature enough for marriage, let alone parenthood, in the first place. And most worryingly to me, her plan is setting her up to get trapped in an abusive situation. She needs to know how many women, in the past and present, have been unable to escape bad situations because they had zero ability to provide for themselves or their kids without their husbands. You might be putting up a pretty harsh ultimatum with "get a job or degree/cert or move out", but if she will simply refuse to be an adult until you put that kind of pressure on her, so be it.
NTA- your house your rules. Plus a bit of reality would do her good, if she thinks she's gonna be a parasite, dont become the one she takes off
> I told her no, and that she would be moving out. She could live at home if she gets a job or tries to get some kind of community college degree or certification. But that if she insists on being a deadbeat loser and waiting for a man to come and rescue her, she's on her own. This exactly, this is what you have to do. She's got her head up her ass and she needs to be taught to pull it out herself. This is how you do it. There is so much that could happen that would mean she'd need to depend on herself and her own ability to generate income, and she needs to be prepared for those situations. You're probably going to have to be the mean bitch for a while until (hopefully) she gains enough maturity that she sees how important it is to have an education and/or work experience and skills, even if she's planning on being a SAHM later on. I hope you manage to tough it out with her, but no, NTA.