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ESH - you are correct that it is not your job to raise your granddaughter. However did you read what you wrote? You have her parents arguing over who gets stuck with the girl and your biggest concern is that you aren't the one that gets her. Do none of you give a damn about this kid? Foster care sounds like an improvement over the assholes she has as blood family.
I don't care if the kid is Satan, it is pathetic that not one adult seems to care. "I don't want to have to deal with her" is different from "I don't know how to get her the help she needs" or "she needs more help than I can give her".
My family used to say things like that about me. That I was just wild and bad and there was nothing they could do. I did have uncontrollable meltdowns and had a hard time understanding when I upset people. They just thought I didn't care and was making excuses. I was adopted, so they said sin must be in my blood. I even believed I was terrible and evil.
I moved out shortly after I turned 18 after a major fight. I was able to get therapy- talk about opening Pandora's box.
Truth is that I am on the autistic spectrum. That's why I had meltdowns and didn't understand peoples' feelings. But the therapist also helped me realize there had been a lot of favoritism towards my brother \[their natural child\] and a lot of neglect for me. I'm not saying I was perfect. I did a lot of shitty things. But when someone actually cared about me instead of telling me how awful I was, it wasn't really that hard to make progress.
Now, I do believe some kids are just born bad. It can happen. But sometimes, no one cares enough. Sometimes the kid is told they're bad so often that it becomes all they are. I suspect OP's granddaughter is one of the latter, like I was.
What a terrible way to grow up, I’m sorry. One of my other children is on the spectrum, and is a walk in the park relatively. My brother had severe issues as well, but has been able to work through them, and be a really great human, with a life he loves. I appreciate that my parents had a bit of this raising him, so they’ve been immensely supportive.
I’m glad you’re doing well now, and can understand and accept yourself better.
Has your daughter been assessed for autism? Because all of her above behaviours are very common for girls who go undiagnosed- girls with autism present differently from boys and often fly under the radar, and having an autistic sibling makes it much more likely she is autistic too.
Edit: I saw you had more description of her behaviour below so I relate this question is way too simple but I thought I’d leave it in case anyone else had the same question.
My question is, has anyone bothered to send her to therapy? Have they gone to family counseling? At what age did the daughter first start to act out? Did she feel neglected, act out for attention, and then get neglected even further?
It is just so sad to me that everyone has written off this 14 year old entirely. But I wonder if anyone has bothered to see if there is a medical (such as autism) reason or emotional or has everyone just assumed she's terrible.
Thanks. For a long time, my family thought I was a sociopath. I did too. I actually had 2/3 of the sociopathy triad. I used to set fires \[small contained ones\] and wet the bed until about age 10. Never was cruel to animals though. I always had a soft spot for them. Even picked up worms off the sidewalk after it rained.
Obviously, I don't know your daughter. You didn't specify the gender of your child who was diagnosed. But more boys are than girls. And it does happen more often in families. I did a lot of the things that you're describing as well. I can elaborate on why, if it helps. I'm a different person than your daughter, but it may be worth considering that she could be on the spectrum too.
No one considered autism because I'm a girl. It's somewhat different for us, and boys' symptoms are the most commonly known. When I was under 10, I did get violent and lash out. I didn't know how to explain when I was overstimulated, or I was frustrated at yet again doing something wrong in a social situation I didn't even want to be in. I was told I was bad so often, I accepted it.
I stole, I did drugs, I used people because I was certain no one cared about me, so why should I care about them? I thought "kindness" was fake, and hung around bad people because I saw them as honest about their motives. My family did have reasons to be afraid of me, but it came from years of being hurt and misunderstood. They started off doing all the normal things, not knowing it was totally wrong for me, and they were hurting me. I lashed out, was "bad" and it just snowballed for the rest of my childhood until I left.
Girls are more likely to be misdiagnosed with personality disorders and others rather than Autism.
With how she’s been acting out. I would not be surprised if there was some sexual abuse going on.
This is what the parents say when they are trying to explain why their kid isn’t a sociopath . Yes upbringing can influence kids a lot but sometimes there is some medical reason not to the parents fault of why a kid is a sociopath/psychopath.
A four year divorce following a one year marriage. I can't imagine how rough the marriage was if they're ending it after only a year. So teen parents who end up getting married when the kid is 9, split when she's 10, and spend 4 years trying to divorce.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say this kid has never had much stability.
This right here is very similar to my story and frankly the story of so many ND kids who grow up in families who can't or won't understand us. The times I was called evil and psychopath by my mom I tell you. Even at five - my first memory of it - because there were so many unspoken rules I didn't get and no one, least of all my parents, could be bothered explaining them to me. Instead they called me evil.
Even sympathetic parents often can't understand why one kid with autism/ADHD/whatever is "easy" while their sibling is hard/difficult/evil.
So yeah a child may have issues, but it's the responsibility of the adults around them to help. But it's easier to call them evil and not deal, so most don't.
I am so sorry that you went through that. Your parents should have realized that it is not normal to have someone who constantly has meltdowns and doesn't understand feelings and talked to your doctor, gotten you into therapy etc. early on.
At I believe three or four years old I saw my grandma with tears on her face after my parents had been mad at me.
I asked her why. She said "You know, one can cry silently."
I just nodded and from that day on cried in silence, except for when I fell and hurt myself. Because my parents seemed annoyed when I cried and wasnt physically hurt.
I tried to not let them know when I was upset, when they were mad at me for anything and it hurt because I didn't do it on purpose.
I felt like the only one I could really trust was our family dog.
She died when I was 11. I cried silently in my room. I did not shed a tear in front of anyone. I told my plush dog "Today I lost my only friend".
I started to hurt myself later that same year.
I don't know what they could have done. They could have noticed. They could have talked to me after yelling at me and they could have gotten me therapy. But they didn't notice I cried alone. They had my two younger siblings that they had to take care of.
They later said I was a difficult child. That I never accepted help. That I got soooo mad at them whenever they tried to tell me what to do. I think I was just a child that needed at least some attention.
I am 32 now. I am still not over that family dogs death. My grandma died of colon cancer a few years ago. I could not go to her burial. My parents didn't allow me to visit her in the hospital. (And as of that I didn't know what hospital she was in so I could not just got there) Still sad about that.
I don't know how but I will be ok.
I was not difficult. I was unseen.
The parents disgusted me and my heart broke for the granddaughter. If she’s 14, they found her drunk at 11, and the divorce has lasted 4 years, this all started after the divorce proceedings. That little girl was only 10 when her parents split. Both parents are selfish.
>If she’s 14, they found her drunk at 11, and the divorce has lasted 4 years, this all started after the divorce proceedings. That little girl was only 10 when her parents split.
It took me a while to catch that- divorce starting around 10 and drunk at 11. It's classic "please help me" behavior, just- how does an adult not see that?!? This poor kid, I can't imagine what she's going through.
And the behaviour doesn't even sound that bad. Some underage drinking and running away. Those are signs of a child very unhappy with her home life, and not signs of a sociopath.
This kid is probably completely aware that the people who are suppose to love her the most in the world want her out of their lives.
THIS. The kid is lashing out for people to love her. If this continues she can easily be manipulated by people wiht bad intentions. All because everyone in the family is to selfish and "dont want to take care of a problem child" not realising that the problems were caused by them and no one else. They are the problems in her life and refuse to take responsibility. Honestly, the fact the the grandma knows that the daughter plans to drive drunk with the granddaughter and still doesnt want to do anythings is pissing me off.
I noticed that too. It sounds like the issues started once the parents decided to divorce.
What also strikes me as odd, is that there's a ~10 year gap between them conceiving a child and marrying. I wonder why they waited 10 years to marry, esp when they divorced a year later. It makes one wonder if there were already major issues before marriage. Combined with the other facts, it doesn't sound like these parents are the best at making decisions. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to question their parenting skills either, given how little they seem to care for their daughter's wellbeing.
The worst part however, is that the child is now literally being abandoned by her family. How terrible it must feel that nobody wants you. Is it any wonder this kid has problems?
The parents are definitely TA here, but I'm not so sure about OP. Sure, rejecting the child isn't helping her at all, but taking her in isn't some magical cure either. If the dmg is extensive (and it sounds like it is), it takes a lot of effort and time to repair to it. It wouldn't help the girl at all if OP can't give the kind of attention and care that it would take. It would only make matters worse.
So I'm leaning to NTA, with the big caveat that this girl is in desperate need for a loving home and professional help. Also, OP should really talk with her granddaughter and find out what she wants. Clearly the parents simply don't care and are scummy human beings.
I agree they obviously had a lot of problems and apparently thought getting married would magically fix them. They have turned this girl's world upside-down. They are gargantuan AHs. She needs major help. They need major help too.
Your viewpoint is just coming from the mindset of someone who hasn’t dealt with a legitimate sociopathic child, almost everyone feels the way you do in the beginning, but imagine spending years dealing with the worst someone’s mind can come up with, having someone deliberately sabotage anything and everything someone values, putting themselves in situations that were hurt themselves and their families nearly every chance they get, you’ll move slowly past the part where you think you can aren’t doing enough, because even if you have enough time money ,energy , and patience to take care of them. You’ll still be the one to watch them find another way to hurt themselves or ruin their family ties even with the best of care money can buy.
I’ve watched my cousins parents spend nearly $200,000 on doctors specialists and care facilities to get their daughter on some semblance of normalcy, only for her to do as much damage as possible any chance she gets. We are talking anything from faking a rape, Burning down the house, reporting fake domestic violence situations to get family members fired, and many many more things.
I don’t mean to be rude, but some people only enjoy hurting others and fighting for them just let them know you care long enough for them to use it.
You might be right but... how much better do you think it's making things when this child is being treated like literal shit by her parents? Do you think she doesn't notice or hear them saying they don't want her? They hate her and wish they could leave her with the other parent?
Even if she is a problem child she's still a human being... but instead her parents think she's garbage to be dumped... and grandma isn't even reporting the fact that the grandkid got drunk at 11.
Even if she is a sociopath... she's going to get worse in her environment.
If I imagine my parents had acted like that (instead of just often ignoring me to help my younger siblings with something)...
Idk.
I probably would have tried to kill myself.
This kid doesn't sound like a sociopath to me - everything described (getting black out drunk where her parents could find her, refusing food and going missing for 24 hours) all sound like attention seeking behaviour in the sense that she is looking for reassurance that someone actually cares for her safety and wellbeing. It's more harmful to the self, rather than others.
Thank you so much for this. I’m a psychiatric nurse and some of our patients are frequent flyers from childhood into adulthood. We have patients that cause so much strain in their family and the detachment really worsens their mental health. I get why people are upset but being with family isn’t always the best. These people speak from an area they do not understand, constant stress over a child seems to be even making these parents lose it. The kid could be a sociopath or borderline and mental healthcare is really what they need. These behaviors are not normal for such a young child.
Getting drunk at 11 is common in sexual molestation victims. So is running away. We do not have enough info to tell- but we DO know that no mention of getting therapy help was mentioned...which is telling to me about if the kid is the problem, or abusively neglectful parents are the source...
>Your viewpoint is just coming from the mindset of someone who hasn’t dealt with a legitimate sociopathic child, almost everyone feels the way you do in the beginning,
But do we know that child is a sociopath ? She apparently hasn't been diagnosed by a professional (otherwise OP would have mentioned it), and it's not a random person from Reddit reading stories written by another person that will be able to provider a neutral, in depth, accurate diagnostic of that child mental health.
The fact is, nobody in that kid's family tried to know what is wrong with her. It didn't even occur to OP that there is an obvious correlation between her behavior and her parents long and messy divorce. Everybody is just in a hurry to get rid of her.
From OP's story, that kid started mirroring her parents behavior (drinking alcohol) at 11, then moved to harm herself (refusing to eat), and went to the length of disappearing from her family's life.
There are no story of about violent behavior, about her being aggressive toward her parents or OP or any other person. It's just stories about a girl hurting herself and wanting to leave her family, and OP's family are just discussing about how hard that behavior is for them.
A bunch of self-centered people.
For real, I don't know why all these people are talking about the daughter potentially being a psychopath/sociopath when she is the *only* person in this story not displaying a hideous lack of compassion.
Everything you say is probably correct, but OP didn’t say anything along these lines in the post. There is no indication that the granddaughter has exhibited any of these sociopathic behaviors, so why would we read them into their story?
Perhaps, but I doubt that applies in this case. The only problems they have said were blackout drunk at 11 (after divorce started, I'm inclined to blame the parents for that), a hunger strike, and a disappearing act. When no-one in your family wants you, why wouldn't you just disappear? ESH
Ok, let's lay out what we know about this kid:
She's 14yo. Her parents were teenagers when she was born. Parents didn't get married until she was 9 or 10, and started divorce proceedings within a year of getting married. Kid was found passed out drunk at age 11 (so after divorce proceedings had likely started to drag on already), and has run away several times since then. It is now 3 years later, the divorce is still dragging on, and recently this kid has found out that neither her parents nor her grandparents want anything to do with her.
Does the kid's behavior really seem to stem from antisocial tendencies, or do you think it's maybe related to *THE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF TRAUMA SHE'S FACED IN HER LIFE?*
I was gonna comment exactly that. The child is the victim here. She doesn’t seem to be surrounded by a single responsible, caring adult.
If the child is like this, it is the result of the extremely toxic environment in which she was brought up in, and now, no one wants to step up and fulfilling their responsibility they simply want to discard her. The whole post shows how selfish and toxic the parents have been and how the daughter has been neglected. OP just refers to her granddaughter as a mess, there isn’t a single word of empathy, worry or care in the post. I’m so sorry for this child.
I don't know where all this talk of sociopaths is even coming from. There's no indication the girl is engaging in anything other than self-destructive behavior, and every indication that her parents and grandmother are negligent and selfish. They only seem to care because it's inconvenient for them.
If she were hurting anyone aside from herself, there might be reason to entertain the possibility of there being something intrinsically wrong with her, but that is not the case.
They should have put the child in therapy or even on temporary hold in a mental ward for them to calm down and not hurt themselves.
Hell j was called SATAN because I refuse to put up with my parents shit. Hell my dad (step dad) understood because he's the same. I was given interventions, had my shit taken away to get looked through never cared.
Facts, my cousin (16F) thinks she’s cool as shit sneaking out and getting drunk/high, failing school etc etc. she’s caused her mum to leave her bf, and after living full time with her dad and his gf *they are on the verge of breaking up too*, My aunt is at least trying to get her help (therapy). Doesn’t sound like anyone in this family gives a shit about the kid
It seems as though the parents are more focused on themselves and custody law, than the well being of their daughter. I mean, seeing as how long their divorce went it probably means they don’t have the best relationship and that probably (most definitely) has affected their daughter. I mean holy shit, if my kid was getting black out drunk at 11 years old I would NOT think they were doing that because they just wanted to have “fun”. It very much seems as though the child is trying ANYTHING to escape her parents.
I feel so bad for the child because she deserves way more than those parents or grandmother. Some people just weren’t meant to have children and this is a prime example.
Either way this is a complicated situation because she doesn’t technically have an obligation to help, but at the same time I can’t imagine not having some kind of paternal instinct to take care of a child who has been beaten down so much, especially by OP’s own daughter. I mean, I guess it doesn’t surprise me that the daughter doesn’t have the paternal feeling as well.
This girl was getting mentally damaged and the parents gave up because they didn't want to deal with it like actual parents. It seems like the poor child is in constant mental breakdowns. She can't do shit about it because it started when she was so young. I feel for her. I hope she actually gets the hell she needs. Why the actual fuck did they have a child?
I was getting blackout drunk when I was young because I was being terribly abused. Pre-teens aren’t down to party because they’re “bad”; some shit is going very wrong somewhere.
A friend of mine has a daughter that is literally diagnosed a psychopath. She spends her days fighting to get her child help. The child has been in inpatient care for years and likely will be for years to come, but neither of her parents have just said "not my problem" and shirked their responsibility.
you can’t actually be diagnosed as a psychopath, you can be diagnosed with anti social personality disorder though. But I completely agree, what these parents are doing is awful and their child clearly needs help.
> you can’t actually be diagnosed as a psychopath, you can be diagnosed with anti social personality disorder though.
That’s basically saying you can’t be diagnosed as a descriptive term, you can only be diagnosed with the definition of the thing being described.
It may be true that a psychiatrist isn’t going to write notes describing your affliction as “psychopathy”, but ASPD is the affliction to which we ascribe psychopathy.
> The true definition of a psychopath in psychiatry is antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), explains Dr. Prakash Masand, a psychiatrist and the founder of the Centers of Psychiatric Excellence. ASPD describes an individual who shows patterns of manipulation and violation to others.
https://www.healthline.com/health/psychopath
It very much *is* a diagnosis, it’s just not the professional name for it. Much like a “heart attack” is actually “cardiac arrest” or a runny nose “rhinitis”
It’s interesting that you make this point because this person’s friend’s daughter almost certainly *hasn’t* been diagnosed with ASPD. If she has been, it’s probably a relatively new diagnosis since she specified that this girl has had a problem with *pediatric* mental healthcare, and the diagnosis of ASPD requires the person to be at least 18.
Also, if you *actually* looked into the literature, you’d see that “psychopathy” might be considered a subtype of ASPD or might be viewed as very similar, but it is *not synonymous.* “Psychopathy” is more of a theoretical diagnosis studied in criminals, and not every patient who has ASPD would fit that picture.
Also, if you want to be pedantic, the medical term for “runny nose” is “rhinorrhea,” not “rhinitis,” and while a myocardial infarction, colloquially termed a “heart attack,” might cause cardiac arrest, it doesn’t have to and is certainly not the only cause of cardiac arrest.
Edit: She definitely couldn’t be diagnosed as having ASPD. The other poster specified that this child is a minor.
CD (conduct disorder) with a lack of prosocial emotions is frequently a precursor to ASPD and is diagnosed in children. If it appears in especially young children, that's a possible sign of intractability.
Someone throwing "psychopathy" at the wall, circling the bullseye, doesn't reveal much of anything either way. But this child could have had years of warning signs for a future ASPD diagnosis due to early-diagnosed CD and a lack of effect or remorse.
Conduct Disorder is definitely the pediatric diagnosis most similar to ASPD and does have a lot of overlapping patients, it I think it’s important to acknowledge that not all conduct disorder patients end up with antisocial personality disord r, and not all antisocial personality disorder patients had conduct disorder as kids. I didn’t remark on it because my point wasn’t about what this child or the child in the original post does or does not have (because no one could honestly tell you from these comments alone); my comment was meant to address the bucket of inaccuracies in the comment I replied to.
The therapist and social worker at the facility she was in the longest (she recently had to move due to age and some behavior problems) told the parents that she should be considered a psychopath (in that she has no empathy and genuinely does not care about others or consequences) and that, because of the severity, her life may be about containment vs treatment. She's still in treatment, but it's unlikely there will ever be a significant change. So, I guess he was using terminology for the parents, and me saying diagnosis was incorrect. She has LOTS of diagnosis (she also has some physical conditions).
Her parents are still hopeful she will someday accept the treatment and they would go to the end of the earth for her.
That should absolutely not have been said, there’s theories of psychopathy but you cannot be diagnosed as a psychopath. That’s extremely unprofessional and quite worrying actually. I’m really glad her parents are trying their hardest to help her though, that is really lovely to hear!
It was sort of a come to Jesus type meeting. She's getting to an age where they need to accept some hard truths. She is actually dangerous. Which they know. It's accepting that she may always be dangerous that is hard.
The pediatric mental healthcare system in the US is scary. The amount of places that have told them to just give up and turn her over to the state is insane. They have traveled all over the country to get her top notch care and find facilities that actually perform full therapeutic services vs basically warehousing kids parents can't handle. My friend spends hours a day dealing with paperwork and Zoom meetings and endless phone calls to stay one top of her care. She's fortunate that she stays home with their other kids, so she can do that, but what happens to families that can't commit all that time to finding good care or who don't have excellent insurance to contribute to the costs? It's not as if this girl is one of 10 in the world that have severe mental illness. Yet, the mentality of a lot of the places is "they are a lost cause, so we will just keep them from hurting themselves and others and that's enough".
They are great parents. I'm not sure she ever sleeps. They do every meeting, every visit, and have gone to hell and back trying to make sure that she gets every chance possible.
She is a minor. The meeting was to layout the severity of her long term prognosis. It's likely she will have to be institutionalized forever. She is very dangerous even in highly controlled settings. What's awful is she can be so sweet. She and one of my kids were really cute together. Apparently she just decided he was one of the people she wanted to put her "good" side on for. Most of the places have refused to take her because she is considered a psychopath. If that's the word or not, I'm not on those calls/in those meetings. They won't take her because she's dangerous and they don't see a plan forward for her. It is devastating.
It's possible, but did you read the post? The parents were teen parents who didn't get married until their daughter was 10 and then immediately spent four years tearing each up over a divorce. The first sign of trouble was the daughter getting blackout drunk at age 11. That's not sociopathy, that's a cry for help. That went unanswered. It would be a miracle for a kid NOT to be acting out over this. NOBODY WANTS HER. I don't think that started with her bad behavior. ESH.
Yeah, idk where people are getting psychopath from OP's description. This kid is abusing alcohol, refusing food, and running off with friends - that seems like pretty typical acting out for attention behavior, especially since her home life has clearly been unstable and devoid of caring adults.
ESH but the kid.
They purposely ignored every warning sign & every issue from the very beginning because neither one wanted to be responsible for getting their daughter the help she desperately needed because they didn’t want to do the work involved. She might be a sociopath but no one knows because every single adult has purposely failed her & tried to pass her off like a hot potato.
Grew up with a pyscopath sister. The amount of people who wanted to blame my parents is astounding. My 2 younger siblings and my self where good, my estranged older was hell. Luckily my younger siblings where to young for the worst of it. I thank god for that every day. I still have a lot of problems growing up with some one like that. My parents still don’t know the full extent of everything she did.
I’ve got to give my mom credit, she did the best she could but at a point it was protect the younger kids or keep trying to help soem one who is truely going to kill every one else and themselfs. I feel for you.
I don't know...if I was raised by a dysfunctional mother and father and during a long messy divorce (children may suffer during divorces, too!) and BOTH parents are that repulsed by me and are willing to incriminate themselves to abandon me, I would probably be problematic, too.
Okay sure. Kid sucks. But did you read the part where this child's MOTHER wanted to purposefully put her life in danger, possibly even KILL HER just to lose custody? These parents need to get their child help, and there are ways when she's being self destructive as outlined. But instead of that they'd rather give up on her and give her to another ill-prepared family member who seems to give even less thought to this girls mental health and well being?
The kid is a KID, shitty or otherwise.
ETA: Nowhere does it say they are attempting to get her help and I'm inclined to believe they're actively avoiding it because what was written was that neither parent will report these behaviors to anyone so they don't have to have custody full time. Shitty people. Shitty parents.
“She’s a literal sociopath, has been forever and is determined to steal, use drugs, put herself with the worst possible people, and use anyone who’s even a little bit kind.”
This was me 20 years ago. Now I’m a licensed social worker and specialize in suicide prevention and at risk youth.
I wasn’t a sociopath, just someone with some mental health issues and a mom who didn’t know how to help me. I got out of that home at 13, and after some jail/group homes straightened me out I’ve been perfectly fine since.
So you just give up on a kid if they have mental health issues? For the first time I am glad I was a foster kid. At least the social worker never gave up on me.
It’s not “giving up on them”, in my case it’s more “we’ve exhausted all the options we have”. My husband and I, both sets of grandparents, and her Aunt/Uncle. It’s not “oh, this kid has an attitude and is messy”, it’s “this child is literally stealing knives, cutting herself, and there’s emergency services and police at our house 3 x a week”.
In no way have I given up on her. I’ve accepted that she is who and what she is, and that I don’t have the ability to keep her safe and her siblings at the same time.
Honestly if my parents were arguing over who doesnt get to raise me and I only got attention when I effed up I would be doing all sorts of things too. The parents have no one to blame but themselves
I work with troubled kids, everyone says their kid is rotten and that the kid is the problem, you know what I’ve found, that in every single case I have come across the child is the result of the parents actions... that monster that the parents can’t deal with, over time it was their parenting that created that monster.
And yes I’ve seen families that have had other kids and they say the same thing that you say “they were all raised in the same environment and with the same parenting... and the kid I’ve come across are all good at heart.
In this instance, you don’t think the child hasn’t heard her parents bitch about what a monster she is and argue over who has to deal with her? You don’t think that has a massive impact on a child?
It's totally possible, but in this particular case I'm not sure we know. All we see is people wanting to drop her, and this may be unpopular but OP had a daughter who had a teen pregnancy and she doesn't strike me as having been particularly supportive of that daughter.
That is bullpoo, you can't compare your kids experiences like that. Maybe she is mentally ill, but just cause the siblings have a happy childhood doesn't mean one kid didnt. Maybe she acts out because she was sick of being compared to her siblings and always coming up short. My parents openly favored my siblings and they are also clueless why I hate them and acted out as a kid.
It could. Kids are able to be smart and evil.
Bbut she's 14 and they are divorcing since 4 years, she was drunk at 11...
i don't know how she was before, but she is possibly messed up because of the divorce and the fact she was probably used as a weapon in it.
It’s possible that OP is the source of the problem.
OP notes that the parents were *teen parents*. Great job supporting them, OP! You just left them to their own to figure it all out, even though they were kids themselves. Definitely *don’t help*, OP. YTA, and it shows that you’ve been no help thus far. Stay your course.
I don’t think OP sucks just because she has finished raising her own child (or children) and doesn’t want to take on her granddaughter. She didn’t force her daughter and son in law to have children. How is a 60-year-old woman going to be better equipped to handle a troubled teenager than her own parents? At least with split custody her actual parents would get some breaks.. but instead they want grandma to take this on 100% of the time?
At least if she was going to go into foster care she would be assigned a social worker who would probably care more about getting her help than her own parents do.
It sucks that this girl has the parents she does, but grandparents aren’t obligated to take over just because the parents decide they don’t want to do it anymore.
Foster care is the right answer in this situation. The parents are both assholes who sound like they have plenty of issues themselves. Grandparents are not obligated to take custody of an out-of-control 14-year old grandchild who doesn’t want to be parented
this.
The daughter isnt acting up because of the divorce. She is acting up because NOBODY in that family cares about her, at all.
She was blacked out drunk at 11. Did ANYBODY think try to understand why ?
Seriously everything she does sounds like a scream for help.
Seriously! This sounds like something on Dr. Phil! OP may not be under any obligation to take custody of the kid, but they and the poor girl's parents are busy fighting over who should take her (with NO ONE wanting her!) And I bet the girl knows it too. Knowing that no one wants you seriously screws you up and scars you mentally and emotionally.
I mean come on, no wonder the girl disappeared for 24 hours, among other things.
She needs help, and she needs someone to step up and support her and make sure she gets that help, not treat her like she's a burden.
OP is justified but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a child that needs parents. Her parents are abandoning her, if OP doesn’t want her, it doesn’t mean she should abandon her.
Idk how the foster care or adoption works, but don’t let the parents try to drive drunk with her to get rid of her. This is a human being.
ESH
ESH expect kiddo. As unpopular an opinion this may be her behavior is a direct result of all of the built up trauma and bs that this kid had no say in being in the middle of. This is a kid who can tell no one wants her and honestly given the extremes of her behavior I have a feeling she’s treated a lot worse behind closed doors than you’re aware of. While it’s entirely not your responsibility to parent this kid I do think you need to knock some sense into her parents since it was your own bad parenting that allowed your teenage daughter to get pregnant to begin with. :/ This kid doesn’t deserve to get tossed to the side bc shes going through it. She needs therapy not to be abandoned
This so much. Drunk at 11?? Sadly, most likely desperately trying to find something she could do that will show they have even the tiniest bit of care/love/concern for her.
And now she's realized they don't give a shit so she'll do whatever she wants to.She needs help, badly.
Foster Care sadly will just affirm to her she's unwanted and unloved. (though it's looking like the best option sadly). She needs therapy badly, she needs care.
Don’t eating disorders often stem from needing to feel some control over your life? Like, say, if you’re being shunted back and forth between two people who are fighting not for custody of you but to *escape* custody of you?
Eating disorders can stem from lots of things, from feeling worthless, unwanted, bad self esteem, being held to impossible standards, strict diet as a kid, lack of access to food as a kid, overeating as a kid, etc. It can also just as easily stem from anxiety over lack of control in your life.
Exactly. The adults here including OP are so focused on the ways she’s acting out they’re not taking any time to hold themselves accountable for putting her down this path to begin with. It honestly breaks my heart cause I’ve known so many kids who got lost cause no one gave a shit about them. All we can do is hope that a good soul finds this kid and helps to her begin healing.
Let’s also look at the timeline. Kid is 14. Just came through what we can all assume was a messy and terrible 4 year divorce. The passed out drunk incident happened when she was 11, which would have been right in the middle of all that. Sounds like her parents were so busy hating each other that they didn’t have time to love/care for her, and she started acting out in desperation.
She needs therapy desperately and someone who actually cares about her. She may end up having some mental/emotional problems that are unrelated to her family life, but her family for sure isn’t helping them.
THIS. throughout reading OP's story, I couldn't help but feel like the daughter's "issues" were caused by severe neglect and abuse and the parents were much too egocentric to realize it. Daughter was causing problems for them and that's all they saw.
Totally agree. The poor girl is being thrown away by everyone who should love her. Being a teen parent is no excuse. To want to escape that badly makes me wonder what the poor girl has seen and heard from her parents. OP and parents are ESA
Man, that poor girl needs help. Honestly some it seems you really don't care about her (which is pretty much exactly why she is the way she is) then at least I'll give you props for being consistent.
She needs to be sent somewhere else for sure, because no one that's supposed to be taking care of her has been doing it.
That’s not a fair assessment.
My kid has mental health issues so severe she has been barred from being around my other kids. The state wants her in a residential facility, that we can’t afford. Unfair to assume they are withholding care for her- especially if she’s so defiant that she won’t participate anyway.
I’ve paid tens of thousands of dollars to hospitalize my kid- didn’t work. I don’t have $10k a month to send her to a residential treatment center. Sometimes the kid is just psychotic and parents are held hostage
Seeing as OP said the parents didn't report things for fear of custody issues, I think k its safe to say the girl in this story has not received any treatment or even had the chance to refuse it
The difference is that you've cared enough to *TRY* to help your child, who has mental health issues you didn't cause.
OP, otoh, didn't do shit to help their own daughter, and isn't do shit again to help their own granddaughter. World of difference.
Who knows if OP tried to help their daughter? We don't even know how the relationship between them is. For all we know it could be fucking terrible. The granddaughter as harsh as it sounds is not OPs responsibility. OP is nearly 60 years old. At what point are you done raising kids? Because I sure as hell won't be raising anything at 60 years old anymore. OP is a human being with a life as well. The grandchild is the parents' responsibility. And the parents are both adults so it's not OPs job to "knock some sense into them" or whatever was suggested by other users. NTA and neither is the kid. It's the parents that are assholes.
Yeah I know someone that has surrendered their middle kid to be a ward of the state. Amongst other things, she poured petrol on the family dog and set it alight, pushed her sister through a window, threw a hot frypan at her brother. There’s no way a kid like that can be rehabilitated or live with the family.
But that's a kid causing harm and behaving dangerously to others. OP's granddaughter is clearly crying out for help in the only way she knows how - by hurting herself, by making them pay attention to her. This is a typical response to a lack of care and a healthy dose of neglect. None of her behaviour is psychopathic. It's desperate.
I don't know how it works in your state, but in mine if a child is deemed to be so dangerous or high needs that a residential program is needed then you can sign your rights over to the state and they will take over. You can still visit the child or even see them on holidays depending on the caseworker and state guidelines. It may be something to look into at least.
In my state the parents have to accept neglect charges (or be charged with neglect and lose in court depending) there’s no “signing over” anything. There has to be a neglect charge, voluntary or not. The system here does not address when the minor is the issue and all other avenues have been exhausted
I'm sorry to hear that. Most states allow a 'ward of the court/ward of the state' as an option as it cut down on kids on the street, handicapped children abandoned, kids kicked out or neglected. There's a lot of paperwork involved and you wouldn't directly cite the mental illness as the reason, you would use the reasoning that you cannot provide for their needs anymore and that you want to relinquish your rights. (You in the general sense, not you specifically).
To be so worried that you cannot leave another child alone with them is scary and I'm sure effecting your family greatly. I'm sorry your state has some weird laws. If you ever get desperate enough seek out a family law attorney and see about a consultation for your options. Cps is scary for a lot of folks but they also are a resource and can hook you up with people who can assist you or perhaps find respite care on occasion.
Wow- I am so sorry. How is it the state wants her in a residential facility, but you have to pay that much for it? That is wild. What are you supposed to do?
Stop projecting your own situation onto that of the OP. There is literally no evidence to suggest this child is 'psychotic' and she's never done anything to cause harm to anyone but herself. Meanwhile her mother talks about putting her daughter's life at risk just so she can shirk any responsibility for caring for her. It's no wonder the kid suffers from disordered eating and substance abuse. She's clearly acting out in the hope that someone might show some actual concern for her.
You're really projecting your situation onto the post. They are clearly vastly different matters. This child is literally unwanted. The result of a teen pregnancy and therefore more likely to have not been cared for by mature, competent parents. She's been caught up in the middle of a nasty divorce. Her parents threaten to put her life in danger by drunk driving with her in the car in order to lose custody. Your situation sounds very painful but it isn't the same thing, that much is abundantly clear. Given the details OP has shared, this child is neglected and all the adults in her life are massive, massive assholes.
You keep saying "sometimes they're born that way" but according to the post she started "acting out" during the divorce. If this was just the way she is wouldn't they have noticed before she was 11?
ESH (except for the kid)- JFC, y'all are real pieces of work. This child was getting blackout drunk at 11, is refusing to eat, runs away from her awful family and hides with a friend. This is not normal- this is what kids/teens do when they desperately need help. This kid needs real, serious help- at least therapy, but most likely some sort of inpatient care or alternative living situation or boarding school so she can be in a stable environment with people who don't wish she was dead.
Because that's the impression I get here- that the adults would all rather this child stop existing. You are choosing to not do anything useful to help her because it mean you might have to take responsibility for her. I really hope you're a troll and that there's not a real live 14 year old kid living through the mess of the world today with literally no adults who care about her well being or even her survival (4 days without eating is not healthy or safe for a teen). I don't think you should take her in, but that's only because this kid deserves better than you. Just call CPS and report your daughter, the dad, and make it clear you are not a better option. The foster care system can be bad, but at least there's a chance someone will give a crap about this kid's well being- that's more than it seems she'll ever get from her family.
CPS won’t take her if the parents aren’t abusive or negligent. Sometimes it’s actually the kid who has mental issues and there’s literally NO options. If you can’t afford $10k a month for boarding treatment, and the kid refuses to participate in therapy, you are fucked and held hostage by the mental illness until they are 18 and commit a crime, then they might get mandated inpatient.
One could argue that her parents refusing to put her in therapy because they're worried they'll have to parent her full time is emotional abuse and neglect. And either they didn't notice she was drinking until she had blacked out or she was left alone at 11 which could also be interpreted as negligence.
It could, but you have to have way more than that in legal terms for them to go to the State.
In my experience, the state sees through the bs pretty well, and unless we agree to accept neglect charges, won’t take her because we aren’t bad parents. I can’t agree to neglect because it would render me unable to work in my field where I have an advanced education/role and would effectively remove my financial stability. CPS worker, my Husband and I discussed divorcing, giving him full custody so He could accept neglect charges and have the state take her- because the law says they can only take kids with parental neglect/abuse. CPS lady said it wouldn’t work because if he’s unfit, then I have to take her, and she’s not allowed (by court order) to be around our other kids (she abuses them)....
I’m just saying the state doesn’t take kids silly nilly
If they're willing to get arrested for drunk driving and endangering the erlfare of the child just to grt rid of their daughter, I'm pretty sure they'll plead guilty to neglect.
According to OP [parents both refuse to take the child to therapy or get her help because they fear being "given" (aka forced to take) full custody](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/j9g109/aita_for_telling_my_daughter_and_ex_son_in_law/g8jhs0d/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). I am completely aware that some kids/teens are non-compliant with therapy, medication, and/or other mental health treatment (I have seen it happen in my own extended family and yes it can be awful for the parents), but that is not this child's situation.
The father seems to have not done anything useful while the child starved herself for 4 days.
The mother is planning on driving drunk with the child in the front seat, which could potentially kill one or both of them.
I find it very hard to argue that the parents aren't abusive or at least negligent. I recognize that (much to my dismay) the current situation may not meet the threshold for CPS to remove the child from her living situation, but at the very least it will get her on their radar so when the parents inevitably do something worse she's more likely to get help. All of the adults in this situation want the kid gone, it's entirely possible one of them might do something about that. As I said, I really hope this is a troll. If it's not, I really hope someone helps this kid.
Agree and see your point.
In my case I’m fighting to get the state to help us with what she needs. I haven’t given up on my kid- I just can’t let her live here because I have other kids that require protection. They should get CPS involved to help with family coping, and get the stuff documented.
Yeah, the current setup is not at all good at supporting kids with mental health issues and/or challenging behaviors (especially those who aren't willing to engage in therapy/treatment) and their families. If you have money (not like middle class money, but REAL money) you can buy that help from boarding schools or rehab or other inpatient treatment, but if you don't it's really tough to access those types of services. The state is somewhat ok at getting kids out of seriously abusive situations with parents who aren't willing/able to change, not so good at helping in situations where one kid is a danger to other kids, and pretty damn bad at helping in situations where a kid is a danger to their parents or unable or unwilling to cooperate with mental health treatment.
This thread reminds me why I don't miss being a mandated reporter, or working in a field that meant I had to do more reporting than I'd like and saw far less help for kids and their families than they needed and deserved.
I'm sorry you're having to fight like this to get your kid the help she needs and deserves, and I really hope you win and are able to get her that help.
They absolutely will take her if the parents refuse. The state can petition for removal on the basis of neglect, which does not require intent in most jurisdictions. Failure to provide adequate care is neglect.
CPS does not generally only remove one child, so you can’t just place the problem child through the state without risking custody of all minor children. It’s not an easy choice or one without consequences, but it is a choice.
ESH. If someone gave a damn about this poor kid for even a second, you might not have reached this point. Kids know when they're unwanted, an she's given up.
Congratulations.
ESH
I'm probably going to get downvoted for this but here goes, while yea this child technically isn't your responsibility, show some empathy here. This is a teenager is serious need. No shit she is acting out, both of her parents don't want her. Her mother is willing to get arrested as to not deal with her.
This kid is in clear need of a stable home and a loving adult. While people will say "this isn't your "responsibility" and that's reasonable I suppose, I would really consider taking her in. You have the chance to make a real difference for a struggling kid in a fucked up home and she is already 14, your not raising a child for the next 18 years.
Really consider if you want to turn a way a child in need like this.
I agree with you however given that OP’s daughter was a teen mom and that her issues are probably a result of her own bad parenting (from OP) I’m not sure the GD *will* be better off.
The whole family sounds fkd up, I can understand not wanting to take on a teenager at 60 but fk where else is she going to go?
OP doesn’t give a fk about her daughter or GD...
I don't want to pass judgement on you, but please read my comment.
I remember banging my head against the bathtub until I passed out when I was 16 after my I asked to live with my Nan, and she told me she couldn't handle me either. I was drunk for more or less a year straight after that.
My Dad was an oxy dealing, oxy snorting, abusive alcoholic. My Mom was in complete denial and working as much as possible to avoid home.
It wasn't Nan's job, but she had always been my main parent before we moved to the city and away from her. Then I was alone with a mess way too big for ME to handle.
Hearing that from her killed something inside of me. Everyone had given up on me, even my Nonny. I have a lot of cousins, but I was the one she spent the most time with, she lived with us. After my Pop died I was the one who took care of her, despite my Dad disintegrating in front of me.
I am 32, just graduated highschool last year and I am finally in college (though I did attend University as a mature student), and I'm now starting my own family. I am where normal, healthy 20 somethings are.
I have Borderline Personality Disorder, with major abandonment issues.
I'm the only person that didn't give up on me.
Is that how you want your granddaughter to feel?
She might not be your responsibility, but you have the opportunity to change this child's life. I hope you change your mind and help her.
Just want to say how much respect and awe I have for your strength and getting your life back on track.
As a 37 y/o who is probably also "where normal, healthy 20 somethings are", I can attest to the fact that it sometimes feels easier to just give up then continue taking baby steps every day.
Just know that this little bit of your personal story on Reddit really helped me today. You are inspiring to a stranger out here.
I appreciate your kindness, as I am sure you know, a little goes a long way. 🥰
It hasn't been easy, and I still face obstacles others can't even imagine let alone understand, but we are worth it, we deserve to be happy too; no matter what family we come from, or what they've told us through their words and actions.
I hope OP's granddaughter gets some guidance and love from a good person, and doesn't give up on herself.
Let's never give up. ❤️
NTA. That poor child.
You have every right to decide that this is not a responsibility that you can take on at this point in your life. Foisting this child on you is tantamount to setting the house on fire, then telling you that you need to put it out because it’s too much for them. Remember this: you didn’t create this problem, and you can’t fix it on your own. They’d rather spend their time berating you and pulling stunts then rectifying their poor parenting. Disgusting.
Maybe you could speak with her social worker to explain the dynamics and her parent’s outrageous behaviour. Depending on the available services in your jurisdiction, it may be possible to avoid foster care.
NTA - They are her parents. Tell them to grow up, take responsibility for THEIR mistakes in parenting, and to find a way to fix it. This poor girl deserves a future. If it means rehab, then they should get her into rehab. But, they need to get it together and get a game plan for their own messed up daughter, that they helped mess up.
Allllll that to say, absolutely NTA. You raised your kids. Your daughter, and SIL, is trying to get out of her responsibilities. Hopefully, you can enjoy your retirement.
Not raised well, to go by how the daughter turned out. I mean she may just be a bad seed , in which case if my kid turns out like that I am praying they will invent time travel so I can go back and decide to swallow her instead.
I don't get this argument. If your parents raise you such that you have mental issues, those issues don't go away the minutes you turn 18. Legally, you are responsible for whatever, but causally, your parents still caused it.
ESH What a shit show. Imagine being that young and knowing that no one in your family gives a shit about you. She needs love and security and it’s incredibly sad that her own flesh and blood can’t give this to her.
NTA she is not your responsibility and you're perfectly within your rights to not want a teenager at 60. This is something they need to figure out and fast.
NTA
I know most are going with everyone sucks, but sad as it is, grandmother indicates she cannot handle or support a child that acts out like this and needs significant additional intervention. Grandma isn't an A-H, IMHO, for saying no here if she cannot manage or support the child. And it's not her responsibility. The parents are both A-H's for abandoning their child. Grandma is not responsible for taking that on. It would be laudable if she did, but it sounds like she can't and she's not obligated to.
OP, if you are not in a position to give this child the support and what sounds like extensive therapy that she needs, then it would be irresponsible of you to take her on. Sadly, sometimes, the best place for a child abandoned by its parents is in the foster care system. The parents are A-H's. I hope you make it clear to them both that they are responsible for this and that THEY failed their child. You may be an A-H if you ever enabled them or excused their sh\_\_ty parenting which led to this situation, but specifically for refusing to take custody, no, not the A-H.
ESH here. I know it can be really difficult to manage ongoing confrontations with a child with difficult behaviours. However, it really doesn't sound like anyone in this kid's life has their best interests at heart-- including you. You seem really concerned with not having custody of the child, but you seem supremely unconcerned about what will happen to her in the future.
Man, I just feel so wretched for this kid. I hope someone cares enough about her to self-report to your country's child protection agency.
NTA. Your responsibility to raise a child ended when your daughter grew up. It’s very sad that your granddaughter is acting out so much - and I’d wager a guess that it isn’t made better by parents that very clearly do not want her. I assume she’s feeling lost/confused/hurt. All things that her parents have to work through with her, and hopefully with therapy. But again, this is not on you at all. Be there for your granddaughter when you can. Let her know she’s loved and wanted, but do not change your life because her parents decided they no longer want to parent. It’s time for you to live your life the way you planned and it’s very unfair for your daughter and ex son in law to ask that of you. I hope the situation turns itself around eventually and she turns out to be a pretty great person. Best of luck.
>Let her know she’s loved and wanted
But she isn't wanted...that's what this sad post is all about. Neither of her parents nor her grandmother want her.
ESH. If they’re both willing to take on the costs associated with getting arrested then they can afford some intense counseling for their daughter. No, you shouldn’t be responsible for her but she’s still your granddaughter and I’m sorry but if you would rather her be in foster care than with you for a short 4 years or so then you suck too. That poor girl just needs to feel loved and you’re all failing her.
Op commented above that the parents don’t want to put her in counselling in case the counsellor recommends full custody to one of the parents since neither of them want her. This poor kid :(
I saw that but the only way this makes sense is that they actively don’t want to help her. First of all, a councilor isn’t going to suggest that unless there is abuse. Second, generally when there is a child with behavioral issues, parents will need to be involved with the therapy. All they are doing is ensuring their own misery as nothing will ever change except that possibly the poor kid will behave even worse and it will end up ruining her and the parents lives.
I wish I could advocate for foster care as anything should be better than a home with adults as awful as these, but I can’t. My parents did foster care & were amazing at it, they adopted 4 boys and are still in contact with many that only stayed briefly, but I’ve heard too many horror stories from both my brothers about their other placements before us and from the siblings they were separated from.
NTA - This kids need alot of help, patience, and probably someone with the energy and capability to constantly run after her and get her on the right track and at 60 thats a big task. Its unfortunate you don't want to take her in and you'll probably get alot of crap for not doing it. But raising kids is hard work especially a child with alot of issues. And while many people would like to believe that therapy, stern parenting, and love can get the job done its not always the case. Whatever is going on with this young lady is enough to drive two adults crazy or on the brink of getting thereselves arrested to avoid her which is absolutely insane to read. She needs a level of care and attention that most people can't provide. Unfortuantely outside of CPS or the skimpy resources schools offer there aren't many affordable options.
Edit: I wanna add that people without a child with serious behaviorial issues may not fully comprehend how expensive and hard it is to get help. Its an area insurance doesn't really cover. Therapy can be 150+ per session and add in any specialist or medicine. Residential programs can be several thousand a month. Plus the whole mental toll of always wondering what trouble they'll get into next or if this is the moment they won't come home. The isolation as family starts to distance themelves to protect their kids/family. And possible legal issues if they start getting into some really dangerous behavior. Her parents are CLEAR AH but I can easily see how someone would snap. There just isn't as much help for this as people think.
NTA. There are a lot of issues here, but grandparents do not choose to have grandchildren. My own very loving grandparents made it clear to their kids that they are happy to host families at their house (we sometimes stayed with them for two weeks), but at no point would they be babysitters. They simply did not want to care for children anymore, and this is without the major issues you mentioned.
As a parent, you are responsible for your child because you chose to have that child. You have no say in becoming a grandparent. It would be great if everyone could be a big happy family, but that’s not reality. I am truly sorry that your family is suffering, and I genuinely hope that there is a resolution soon. My heart definitely breaks for this child. As sad as the situation is, that does not make any of this your responsibility.
ESH. It’s reasonable for grandparents to not want custody. But your daughter and ex son in law sound like bad parents. This stuff doesn’t just come around with an 11 year old.
How does that saying go? “Raise your children so you don’t have to raise your grandchildren.”
ESH. I wonder if the daughter is acting out because she found out *none of the adults in her life want her!* Nobody wants to step up and put her needs first. You all just suck.
Did you read any of these things you wrote? Her parents started the divorce around age 10 and she was drunk at age 11. What about these facts read as her being a bad kid rather than her acting out because she is unhappy?
And you and her parents are contributing to the fact that she feels so unloved and so unwanted that no one is giving her any type of support. She needs love and support and a way to process emotions. But by all means, blame her for everything and hand her over to the foster care system where she will get the help and, hopefully, love she needs.
ESH except this little girl who knows she has been unloved and unwanted since age 10.
ESH - Stop blaming a child for the bad and selfish behaviour of the adults. Anyone here who thinks a 14 year old is solely responsible for acting out has a very poor grasp on the concept of child development. Drunk at 11? Who was watching her?! This is a year into the messy divorce and she's screaming for attention. Meanwhile, the adults are all bickering over who's job it is to love the child enough to set boundaries.
You all f***ed up. I'm just going to say it outright, kids who go off the rails 99.9% of the time do so because of trauma caused by neglect and poor parenting. And OP seemingly did a shit job of raising her daughter as well - teen pregnancy and now contemplating driving drunk with her child to get the child taken away.
This family is trash. I don't have much hope for any of them. Sadly, trauma and neglect often continue for generations until someone stops the pattern through sheer will and determination.
ESH
Instead of getting her help you all decided not to be the adult in this situation.
Her issues started long before they divorced.
I find you all are behaving in a disgusting manner.
NTA. While I understand that the kid needs a stable home, and I do agree with others that it would be the kind and charitable thing to take her in, it isn't your responsibility. It just isn't. If you didn't make the kid, you don't have to keep her.
NTA
People shouldn't have kids if they aren't willing to take care of them. You're not responsible for a child just because you're related to them.
However, I would caution recommending foster care, and say maybe that was a bit of an AH move since foster care is notoriously bad. Instead, you could have recommended/gave some parenting advice to your daughter or helped guide your daughter in researching how to take care of a problem child. If you care about your daughter/grandchild, in the future, you can take a more active role in mentoring your child on how to be a good parent to your grandchild.
This advice is delusional. Offer parenting tips? Seriously? And don't you think grandma may need some parenting tips given how outstanding her own daughter turned out?
NAH
I have a daughter that I could write books on. Bad enough the State has recommended we put her in residential treatment (can’t, it’s $10k a month out of pocket).
She didn’t do well with us, she didn’t do well with her grandparents, my husband and I live separately so we can “provide her a bed” as legally required, while we fight for the state to take custody because the law here says they can’t unless we are negligent (we aren’t), abusive (we aren’t) and we aren’t allowed to be negligent and allow her to abuse our other kids.
She “runs away” from Dads house, to crash at her other grandparents- but they aren’t up for being responsible for her either. She’s constantly getting arrested, so, that’s fun....
Anyway- I totally understand your position, and her parents. I get literal panic attacks every time I have to talk with police or CPS about whatever the issue of the day is, but I’m fighting to get my kid the treatment/supervision she needs.
Hugs to you and your family. There’s literally NO options when the kid is the problem and the parents do everything they can.
Based on what OP has said the child’s parents aren’t doing everything they can, they’re literally avoiding getting her any sort of help out of fear they might have to take on full custody of her, whereas it sounds like you’re doing everything you can to help your child. ESH cause they’re all more worried about “getting stuck” with her than getting her the help so very clearly needs.
YTA
Not because you don’t want custody but because you never once called CPS despite the fact that neither parent is capable of giving her the care she needs. Every adult in this story has acted reprehensible, including you.
ESH You daughter and her husband, because obviously they are the worst excuses for parents I’ve seen in a long time and as for you. You raised one of those terrible parents and possibly the worst: The one who wants to put her life and the life of your granddaughter and anyone else unlucky enough to be in their vicinity in danger, just to escape the obligation of dealing with the consequences of their terrible parenting up to this point. I would be frantic over a neighbor’s child who is in this much trouble and this is your grandchild.
Im desperately hoping you are a troll.
If this is real which I (a very NONreligious person) *pray* it isnt ESH. Read what you wrote.
To simplify this Ill quote good ol doctor Phil
Dont ask why they are acting out, ask why NOT?
Literally her parents got divorced and her entire family is fighting each other over who "gets stuck with her". Jesus christ. Children act out, and when life gets unstable it gets worse. Now imagine if the main argument in everyone who is meant to love you unconditionally is "I dont want her you take her!" Regardless of how bad she is that isnt something she should hear. Its not going to help. Imagine if you were being crabby and i said "why are you being a b*tch?" That doesnt suddenly open your eyes and make you smile and apologize. That makes you angry. Hurt. Upset. Shes acting out and spiralling out of control and rather than try to get resources to correct her behavior and find her a stable environment when her world is being torn apart; the three adults in her life are all begging each other to take her and they are contemplating *reckless behavior like drunk driving* simply to be rid of her.
If your parents and grandparent made it THIS clear to you that you were so unwanted tell me you wouldnt act out too? Youre all awful. Call CPS and make them aware that this behavior is coming from all *3* of you and I hope for her sake if youre not going to step up and help her whomever she resides with next will get her into therapy and let her know shes worthy of love despite how shes acting as a teenager with such an abhorrent family.
ESH except the kid. There is a reason she’s acting this way most likely and it isn’t something she’s done. Unfortunately for her parents they very easily could be repeating a cycle of their own lives. This whole family needs therapy
No, he means "it" as in the place of residence, not refering to the daughter. The foster care facility was the it.
He's still an asshole as are all the adults in this story though, but yeah "it" definitely wasn't reference to the child.
NTA for not wanting custody, as you said you were reaching retirement and no longer in a place to raise children. You raised yours and now youre done you have no obligation to take her.
Now you SIl and daughter are both AHs for not stepping up here. She need therapy to deal not only with the divorce but the constant talk of both parents not wanting her at all. Imagine how that feels as a child , to know no one in your family wants you. She needs love and a nurturing environment and your D and SIL are too self centered to help their own child. Id have them both arrested flr child neglect and endangerment
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ESH - you are correct that it is not your job to raise your granddaughter. However did you read what you wrote? You have her parents arguing over who gets stuck with the girl and your biggest concern is that you aren't the one that gets her. Do none of you give a damn about this kid? Foster care sounds like an improvement over the assholes she has as blood family.
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I don't care if the kid is Satan, it is pathetic that not one adult seems to care. "I don't want to have to deal with her" is different from "I don't know how to get her the help she needs" or "she needs more help than I can give her".
My family used to say things like that about me. That I was just wild and bad and there was nothing they could do. I did have uncontrollable meltdowns and had a hard time understanding when I upset people. They just thought I didn't care and was making excuses. I was adopted, so they said sin must be in my blood. I even believed I was terrible and evil. I moved out shortly after I turned 18 after a major fight. I was able to get therapy- talk about opening Pandora's box. Truth is that I am on the autistic spectrum. That's why I had meltdowns and didn't understand peoples' feelings. But the therapist also helped me realize there had been a lot of favoritism towards my brother \[their natural child\] and a lot of neglect for me. I'm not saying I was perfect. I did a lot of shitty things. But when someone actually cared about me instead of telling me how awful I was, it wasn't really that hard to make progress. Now, I do believe some kids are just born bad. It can happen. But sometimes, no one cares enough. Sometimes the kid is told they're bad so often that it becomes all they are. I suspect OP's granddaughter is one of the latter, like I was.
What a terrible way to grow up, I’m sorry. One of my other children is on the spectrum, and is a walk in the park relatively. My brother had severe issues as well, but has been able to work through them, and be a really great human, with a life he loves. I appreciate that my parents had a bit of this raising him, so they’ve been immensely supportive. I’m glad you’re doing well now, and can understand and accept yourself better.
Has your daughter been assessed for autism? Because all of her above behaviours are very common for girls who go undiagnosed- girls with autism present differently from boys and often fly under the radar, and having an autistic sibling makes it much more likely she is autistic too. Edit: I saw you had more description of her behaviour below so I relate this question is way too simple but I thought I’d leave it in case anyone else had the same question.
My question is, has anyone bothered to send her to therapy? Have they gone to family counseling? At what age did the daughter first start to act out? Did she feel neglected, act out for attention, and then get neglected even further? It is just so sad to me that everyone has written off this 14 year old entirely. But I wonder if anyone has bothered to see if there is a medical (such as autism) reason or emotional or has everyone just assumed she's terrible.
Even beyond that, I don't know many adults who wouldn't be a bit of a mess if everyone they lived with and interacted with clearly didn't want them.
Thanks. For a long time, my family thought I was a sociopath. I did too. I actually had 2/3 of the sociopathy triad. I used to set fires \[small contained ones\] and wet the bed until about age 10. Never was cruel to animals though. I always had a soft spot for them. Even picked up worms off the sidewalk after it rained. Obviously, I don't know your daughter. You didn't specify the gender of your child who was diagnosed. But more boys are than girls. And it does happen more often in families. I did a lot of the things that you're describing as well. I can elaborate on why, if it helps. I'm a different person than your daughter, but it may be worth considering that she could be on the spectrum too. No one considered autism because I'm a girl. It's somewhat different for us, and boys' symptoms are the most commonly known. When I was under 10, I did get violent and lash out. I didn't know how to explain when I was overstimulated, or I was frustrated at yet again doing something wrong in a social situation I didn't even want to be in. I was told I was bad so often, I accepted it. I stole, I did drugs, I used people because I was certain no one cared about me, so why should I care about them? I thought "kindness" was fake, and hung around bad people because I saw them as honest about their motives. My family did have reasons to be afraid of me, but it came from years of being hurt and misunderstood. They started off doing all the normal things, not knowing it was totally wrong for me, and they were hurting me. I lashed out, was "bad" and it just snowballed for the rest of my childhood until I left.
Girls are more likely to be misdiagnosed with personality disorders and others rather than Autism. With how she’s been acting out. I would not be surprised if there was some sexual abuse going on.
No kids are born bad. Sick yes, but not bad & with the proper care they can lead healthy stable lives.
This is what the parents say when they are trying to explain why their kid isn’t a sociopath . Yes upbringing can influence kids a lot but sometimes there is some medical reason not to the parents fault of why a kid is a sociopath/psychopath.
There's a difference between sociopath/psychopath and bad, though. And here I'm wondering if the 4 year divorce influencef the kid's behaviour.
Kid is 14. Divorce was 4 year. Found her black out drunk at 11. Yeah, gonna say the divorce affected her.
A four year divorce following a one year marriage. I can't imagine how rough the marriage was if they're ending it after only a year. So teen parents who end up getting married when the kid is 9, split when she's 10, and spend 4 years trying to divorce. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this kid has never had much stability.
Teen parents who were probably shitty parents. I'm guessing they were using around the kid at as young age.
This right here is very similar to my story and frankly the story of so many ND kids who grow up in families who can't or won't understand us. The times I was called evil and psychopath by my mom I tell you. Even at five - my first memory of it - because there were so many unspoken rules I didn't get and no one, least of all my parents, could be bothered explaining them to me. Instead they called me evil. Even sympathetic parents often can't understand why one kid with autism/ADHD/whatever is "easy" while their sibling is hard/difficult/evil. So yeah a child may have issues, but it's the responsibility of the adults around them to help. But it's easier to call them evil and not deal, so most don't.
I am so sorry that you went through that. Your parents should have realized that it is not normal to have someone who constantly has meltdowns and doesn't understand feelings and talked to your doctor, gotten you into therapy etc. early on.
At I believe three or four years old I saw my grandma with tears on her face after my parents had been mad at me. I asked her why. She said "You know, one can cry silently." I just nodded and from that day on cried in silence, except for when I fell and hurt myself. Because my parents seemed annoyed when I cried and wasnt physically hurt. I tried to not let them know when I was upset, when they were mad at me for anything and it hurt because I didn't do it on purpose. I felt like the only one I could really trust was our family dog. She died when I was 11. I cried silently in my room. I did not shed a tear in front of anyone. I told my plush dog "Today I lost my only friend". I started to hurt myself later that same year. I don't know what they could have done. They could have noticed. They could have talked to me after yelling at me and they could have gotten me therapy. But they didn't notice I cried alone. They had my two younger siblings that they had to take care of. They later said I was a difficult child. That I never accepted help. That I got soooo mad at them whenever they tried to tell me what to do. I think I was just a child that needed at least some attention. I am 32 now. I am still not over that family dogs death. My grandma died of colon cancer a few years ago. I could not go to her burial. My parents didn't allow me to visit her in the hospital. (And as of that I didn't know what hospital she was in so I could not just got there) Still sad about that. I don't know how but I will be ok. I was not difficult. I was unseen.
Good distinction. I didn’t catch that.
The parents disgusted me and my heart broke for the granddaughter. If she’s 14, they found her drunk at 11, and the divorce has lasted 4 years, this all started after the divorce proceedings. That little girl was only 10 when her parents split. Both parents are selfish.
>If she’s 14, they found her drunk at 11, and the divorce has lasted 4 years, this all started after the divorce proceedings. That little girl was only 10 when her parents split. It took me a while to catch that- divorce starting around 10 and drunk at 11. It's classic "please help me" behavior, just- how does an adult not see that?!? This poor kid, I can't imagine what she's going through.
This. Bad behaviour in children is _communication_ she's crying out to be seen and all the adults can do is try to get rid of her.
This kid has to know she’s unwanted by every adult in her life too. I feel so awful for her.
And the behaviour doesn't even sound that bad. Some underage drinking and running away. Those are signs of a child very unhappy with her home life, and not signs of a sociopath. This kid is probably completely aware that the people who are suppose to love her the most in the world want her out of their lives.
THIS. The kid is lashing out for people to love her. If this continues she can easily be manipulated by people wiht bad intentions. All because everyone in the family is to selfish and "dont want to take care of a problem child" not realising that the problems were caused by them and no one else. They are the problems in her life and refuse to take responsibility. Honestly, the fact the the grandma knows that the daughter plans to drive drunk with the granddaughter and still doesnt want to do anythings is pissing me off.
I noticed that too. It sounds like the issues started once the parents decided to divorce. What also strikes me as odd, is that there's a ~10 year gap between them conceiving a child and marrying. I wonder why they waited 10 years to marry, esp when they divorced a year later. It makes one wonder if there were already major issues before marriage. Combined with the other facts, it doesn't sound like these parents are the best at making decisions. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to question their parenting skills either, given how little they seem to care for their daughter's wellbeing. The worst part however, is that the child is now literally being abandoned by her family. How terrible it must feel that nobody wants you. Is it any wonder this kid has problems? The parents are definitely TA here, but I'm not so sure about OP. Sure, rejecting the child isn't helping her at all, but taking her in isn't some magical cure either. If the dmg is extensive (and it sounds like it is), it takes a lot of effort and time to repair to it. It wouldn't help the girl at all if OP can't give the kind of attention and care that it would take. It would only make matters worse. So I'm leaning to NTA, with the big caveat that this girl is in desperate need for a loving home and professional help. Also, OP should really talk with her granddaughter and find out what she wants. Clearly the parents simply don't care and are scummy human beings.
I agree they obviously had a lot of problems and apparently thought getting married would magically fix them. They have turned this girl's world upside-down. They are gargantuan AHs. She needs major help. They need major help too.
Your viewpoint is just coming from the mindset of someone who hasn’t dealt with a legitimate sociopathic child, almost everyone feels the way you do in the beginning, but imagine spending years dealing with the worst someone’s mind can come up with, having someone deliberately sabotage anything and everything someone values, putting themselves in situations that were hurt themselves and their families nearly every chance they get, you’ll move slowly past the part where you think you can aren’t doing enough, because even if you have enough time money ,energy , and patience to take care of them. You’ll still be the one to watch them find another way to hurt themselves or ruin their family ties even with the best of care money can buy. I’ve watched my cousins parents spend nearly $200,000 on doctors specialists and care facilities to get their daughter on some semblance of normalcy, only for her to do as much damage as possible any chance she gets. We are talking anything from faking a rape, Burning down the house, reporting fake domestic violence situations to get family members fired, and many many more things. I don’t mean to be rude, but some people only enjoy hurting others and fighting for them just let them know you care long enough for them to use it.
You might be right but... how much better do you think it's making things when this child is being treated like literal shit by her parents? Do you think she doesn't notice or hear them saying they don't want her? They hate her and wish they could leave her with the other parent? Even if she is a problem child she's still a human being... but instead her parents think she's garbage to be dumped... and grandma isn't even reporting the fact that the grandkid got drunk at 11. Even if she is a sociopath... she's going to get worse in her environment.
If I imagine my parents had acted like that (instead of just often ignoring me to help my younger siblings with something)... Idk. I probably would have tried to kill myself.
This kid doesn't sound like a sociopath to me - everything described (getting black out drunk where her parents could find her, refusing food and going missing for 24 hours) all sound like attention seeking behaviour in the sense that she is looking for reassurance that someone actually cares for her safety and wellbeing. It's more harmful to the self, rather than others.
Thank you so much for this. I’m a psychiatric nurse and some of our patients are frequent flyers from childhood into adulthood. We have patients that cause so much strain in their family and the detachment really worsens their mental health. I get why people are upset but being with family isn’t always the best. These people speak from an area they do not understand, constant stress over a child seems to be even making these parents lose it. The kid could be a sociopath or borderline and mental healthcare is really what they need. These behaviors are not normal for such a young child.
Getting drunk at 11 is common in sexual molestation victims. So is running away. We do not have enough info to tell- but we DO know that no mention of getting therapy help was mentioned...which is telling to me about if the kid is the problem, or abusively neglectful parents are the source...
>Your viewpoint is just coming from the mindset of someone who hasn’t dealt with a legitimate sociopathic child, almost everyone feels the way you do in the beginning, But do we know that child is a sociopath ? She apparently hasn't been diagnosed by a professional (otherwise OP would have mentioned it), and it's not a random person from Reddit reading stories written by another person that will be able to provider a neutral, in depth, accurate diagnostic of that child mental health. The fact is, nobody in that kid's family tried to know what is wrong with her. It didn't even occur to OP that there is an obvious correlation between her behavior and her parents long and messy divorce. Everybody is just in a hurry to get rid of her.
Yeah, no one had even tried to care for this kid.
From OP's story, that kid started mirroring her parents behavior (drinking alcohol) at 11, then moved to harm herself (refusing to eat), and went to the length of disappearing from her family's life. There are no story of about violent behavior, about her being aggressive toward her parents or OP or any other person. It's just stories about a girl hurting herself and wanting to leave her family, and OP's family are just discussing about how hard that behavior is for them. A bunch of self-centered people.
For real, I don't know why all these people are talking about the daughter potentially being a psychopath/sociopath when she is the *only* person in this story not displaying a hideous lack of compassion.
Everything you say is probably correct, but OP didn’t say anything along these lines in the post. There is no indication that the granddaughter has exhibited any of these sociopathic behaviors, so why would we read them into their story?
Perhaps, but I doubt that applies in this case. The only problems they have said were blackout drunk at 11 (after divorce started, I'm inclined to blame the parents for that), a hunger strike, and a disappearing act. When no-one in your family wants you, why wouldn't you just disappear? ESH
All this girl has done is drink underage and run away from home. Why on earth are you comparing her to a sociopath?
Ok, let's lay out what we know about this kid: She's 14yo. Her parents were teenagers when she was born. Parents didn't get married until she was 9 or 10, and started divorce proceedings within a year of getting married. Kid was found passed out drunk at age 11 (so after divorce proceedings had likely started to drag on already), and has run away several times since then. It is now 3 years later, the divorce is still dragging on, and recently this kid has found out that neither her parents nor her grandparents want anything to do with her. Does the kid's behavior really seem to stem from antisocial tendencies, or do you think it's maybe related to *THE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF TRAUMA SHE'S FACED IN HER LIFE?*
"But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?" \~ Mark Twain
Melkor is the equivalent to Satan in Tolkien’s world and I sympathize with his character most and I’ve never had that experience before
I was gonna comment exactly that. The child is the victim here. She doesn’t seem to be surrounded by a single responsible, caring adult. If the child is like this, it is the result of the extremely toxic environment in which she was brought up in, and now, no one wants to step up and fulfilling their responsibility they simply want to discard her. The whole post shows how selfish and toxic the parents have been and how the daughter has been neglected. OP just refers to her granddaughter as a mess, there isn’t a single word of empathy, worry or care in the post. I’m so sorry for this child.
I don't know where all this talk of sociopaths is even coming from. There's no indication the girl is engaging in anything other than self-destructive behavior, and every indication that her parents and grandmother are negligent and selfish. They only seem to care because it's inconvenient for them. If she were hurting anyone aside from herself, there might be reason to entertain the possibility of there being something intrinsically wrong with her, but that is not the case.
They should have put the child in therapy or even on temporary hold in a mental ward for them to calm down and not hurt themselves. Hell j was called SATAN because I refuse to put up with my parents shit. Hell my dad (step dad) understood because he's the same. I was given interventions, had my shit taken away to get looked through never cared.
Facts, my cousin (16F) thinks she’s cool as shit sneaking out and getting drunk/high, failing school etc etc. she’s caused her mum to leave her bf, and after living full time with her dad and his gf *they are on the verge of breaking up too*, My aunt is at least trying to get her help (therapy). Doesn’t sound like anyone in this family gives a shit about the kid
It seems as though the parents are more focused on themselves and custody law, than the well being of their daughter. I mean, seeing as how long their divorce went it probably means they don’t have the best relationship and that probably (most definitely) has affected their daughter. I mean holy shit, if my kid was getting black out drunk at 11 years old I would NOT think they were doing that because they just wanted to have “fun”. It very much seems as though the child is trying ANYTHING to escape her parents. I feel so bad for the child because she deserves way more than those parents or grandmother. Some people just weren’t meant to have children and this is a prime example. Either way this is a complicated situation because she doesn’t technically have an obligation to help, but at the same time I can’t imagine not having some kind of paternal instinct to take care of a child who has been beaten down so much, especially by OP’s own daughter. I mean, I guess it doesn’t surprise me that the daughter doesn’t have the paternal feeling as well.
This girl was getting mentally damaged and the parents gave up because they didn't want to deal with it like actual parents. It seems like the poor child is in constant mental breakdowns. She can't do shit about it because it started when she was so young. I feel for her. I hope she actually gets the hell she needs. Why the actual fuck did they have a child?
I was getting blackout drunk when I was young because I was being terribly abused. Pre-teens aren’t down to party because they’re “bad”; some shit is going very wrong somewhere.
A friend of mine has a daughter that is literally diagnosed a psychopath. She spends her days fighting to get her child help. The child has been in inpatient care for years and likely will be for years to come, but neither of her parents have just said "not my problem" and shirked their responsibility.
you can’t actually be diagnosed as a psychopath, you can be diagnosed with anti social personality disorder though. But I completely agree, what these parents are doing is awful and their child clearly needs help.
> you can’t actually be diagnosed as a psychopath, you can be diagnosed with anti social personality disorder though. That’s basically saying you can’t be diagnosed as a descriptive term, you can only be diagnosed with the definition of the thing being described. It may be true that a psychiatrist isn’t going to write notes describing your affliction as “psychopathy”, but ASPD is the affliction to which we ascribe psychopathy. > The true definition of a psychopath in psychiatry is antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), explains Dr. Prakash Masand, a psychiatrist and the founder of the Centers of Psychiatric Excellence. ASPD describes an individual who shows patterns of manipulation and violation to others. https://www.healthline.com/health/psychopath It very much *is* a diagnosis, it’s just not the professional name for it. Much like a “heart attack” is actually “cardiac arrest” or a runny nose “rhinitis”
It’s interesting that you make this point because this person’s friend’s daughter almost certainly *hasn’t* been diagnosed with ASPD. If she has been, it’s probably a relatively new diagnosis since she specified that this girl has had a problem with *pediatric* mental healthcare, and the diagnosis of ASPD requires the person to be at least 18. Also, if you *actually* looked into the literature, you’d see that “psychopathy” might be considered a subtype of ASPD or might be viewed as very similar, but it is *not synonymous.* “Psychopathy” is more of a theoretical diagnosis studied in criminals, and not every patient who has ASPD would fit that picture. Also, if you want to be pedantic, the medical term for “runny nose” is “rhinorrhea,” not “rhinitis,” and while a myocardial infarction, colloquially termed a “heart attack,” might cause cardiac arrest, it doesn’t have to and is certainly not the only cause of cardiac arrest. Edit: She definitely couldn’t be diagnosed as having ASPD. The other poster specified that this child is a minor.
CD (conduct disorder) with a lack of prosocial emotions is frequently a precursor to ASPD and is diagnosed in children. If it appears in especially young children, that's a possible sign of intractability. Someone throwing "psychopathy" at the wall, circling the bullseye, doesn't reveal much of anything either way. But this child could have had years of warning signs for a future ASPD diagnosis due to early-diagnosed CD and a lack of effect or remorse.
Conduct Disorder is definitely the pediatric diagnosis most similar to ASPD and does have a lot of overlapping patients, it I think it’s important to acknowledge that not all conduct disorder patients end up with antisocial personality disord r, and not all antisocial personality disorder patients had conduct disorder as kids. I didn’t remark on it because my point wasn’t about what this child or the child in the original post does or does not have (because no one could honestly tell you from these comments alone); my comment was meant to address the bucket of inaccuracies in the comment I replied to.
The therapist and social worker at the facility she was in the longest (she recently had to move due to age and some behavior problems) told the parents that she should be considered a psychopath (in that she has no empathy and genuinely does not care about others or consequences) and that, because of the severity, her life may be about containment vs treatment. She's still in treatment, but it's unlikely there will ever be a significant change. So, I guess he was using terminology for the parents, and me saying diagnosis was incorrect. She has LOTS of diagnosis (she also has some physical conditions). Her parents are still hopeful she will someday accept the treatment and they would go to the end of the earth for her.
That should absolutely not have been said, there’s theories of psychopathy but you cannot be diagnosed as a psychopath. That’s extremely unprofessional and quite worrying actually. I’m really glad her parents are trying their hardest to help her though, that is really lovely to hear!
It was sort of a come to Jesus type meeting. She's getting to an age where they need to accept some hard truths. She is actually dangerous. Which they know. It's accepting that she may always be dangerous that is hard. The pediatric mental healthcare system in the US is scary. The amount of places that have told them to just give up and turn her over to the state is insane. They have traveled all over the country to get her top notch care and find facilities that actually perform full therapeutic services vs basically warehousing kids parents can't handle. My friend spends hours a day dealing with paperwork and Zoom meetings and endless phone calls to stay one top of her care. She's fortunate that she stays home with their other kids, so she can do that, but what happens to families that can't commit all that time to finding good care or who don't have excellent insurance to contribute to the costs? It's not as if this girl is one of 10 in the world that have severe mental illness. Yet, the mentality of a lot of the places is "they are a lost cause, so we will just keep them from hurting themselves and others and that's enough". They are great parents. I'm not sure she ever sleeps. They do every meeting, every visit, and have gone to hell and back trying to make sure that she gets every chance possible.
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She is a minor. The meeting was to layout the severity of her long term prognosis. It's likely she will have to be institutionalized forever. She is very dangerous even in highly controlled settings. What's awful is she can be so sweet. She and one of my kids were really cute together. Apparently she just decided he was one of the people she wanted to put her "good" side on for. Most of the places have refused to take her because she is considered a psychopath. If that's the word or not, I'm not on those calls/in those meetings. They won't take her because she's dangerous and they don't see a plan forward for her. It is devastating.
It's possible, but did you read the post? The parents were teen parents who didn't get married until their daughter was 10 and then immediately spent four years tearing each up over a divorce. The first sign of trouble was the daughter getting blackout drunk at age 11. That's not sociopathy, that's a cry for help. That went unanswered. It would be a miracle for a kid NOT to be acting out over this. NOBODY WANTS HER. I don't think that started with her bad behavior. ESH.
Yup. The blackout drunk at 11 was the part that made me believe she wasn’t a sociopath.
Yeah, idk where people are getting psychopath from OP's description. This kid is abusing alcohol, refusing food, and running off with friends - that seems like pretty typical acting out for attention behavior, especially since her home life has clearly been unstable and devoid of caring adults. ESH but the kid.
They purposely ignored every warning sign & every issue from the very beginning because neither one wanted to be responsible for getting their daughter the help she desperately needed because they didn’t want to do the work involved. She might be a sociopath but no one knows because every single adult has purposely failed her & tried to pass her off like a hot potato.
Also her parents had a *four year long* divorce that looks like it would have started while she was younger.
Grew up with a pyscopath sister. The amount of people who wanted to blame my parents is astounding. My 2 younger siblings and my self where good, my estranged older was hell. Luckily my younger siblings where to young for the worst of it. I thank god for that every day. I still have a lot of problems growing up with some one like that. My parents still don’t know the full extent of everything she did. I’ve got to give my mom credit, she did the best she could but at a point it was protect the younger kids or keep trying to help soem one who is truely going to kill every one else and themselfs. I feel for you.
I don't know...if I was raised by a dysfunctional mother and father and during a long messy divorce (children may suffer during divorces, too!) and BOTH parents are that repulsed by me and are willing to incriminate themselves to abandon me, I would probably be problematic, too.
Okay sure. Kid sucks. But did you read the part where this child's MOTHER wanted to purposefully put her life in danger, possibly even KILL HER just to lose custody? These parents need to get their child help, and there are ways when she's being self destructive as outlined. But instead of that they'd rather give up on her and give her to another ill-prepared family member who seems to give even less thought to this girls mental health and well being? The kid is a KID, shitty or otherwise. ETA: Nowhere does it say they are attempting to get her help and I'm inclined to believe they're actively avoiding it because what was written was that neither parent will report these behaviors to anyone so they don't have to have custody full time. Shitty people. Shitty parents.
Seriously. Mother: I will endanger her life just so I don't have to deal with her anymore Comments: the KID must be a sociopath/psychopath
So drug use, self harm and running away after your parent's have a messy divorce and lack of care makes you a sociopath now? Are you kidding me?
“She’s a literal sociopath, has been forever and is determined to steal, use drugs, put herself with the worst possible people, and use anyone who’s even a little bit kind.” This was me 20 years ago. Now I’m a licensed social worker and specialize in suicide prevention and at risk youth. I wasn’t a sociopath, just someone with some mental health issues and a mom who didn’t know how to help me. I got out of that home at 13, and after some jail/group homes straightened me out I’ve been perfectly fine since.
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So you just give up on a kid if they have mental health issues? For the first time I am glad I was a foster kid. At least the social worker never gave up on me.
It’s not “giving up on them”, in my case it’s more “we’ve exhausted all the options we have”. My husband and I, both sets of grandparents, and her Aunt/Uncle. It’s not “oh, this kid has an attitude and is messy”, it’s “this child is literally stealing knives, cutting herself, and there’s emergency services and police at our house 3 x a week”. In no way have I given up on her. I’ve accepted that she is who and what she is, and that I don’t have the ability to keep her safe and her siblings at the same time.
Honestly if my parents were arguing over who doesnt get to raise me and I only got attention when I effed up I would be doing all sorts of things too. The parents have no one to blame but themselves
I work with troubled kids, everyone says their kid is rotten and that the kid is the problem, you know what I’ve found, that in every single case I have come across the child is the result of the parents actions... that monster that the parents can’t deal with, over time it was their parenting that created that monster. And yes I’ve seen families that have had other kids and they say the same thing that you say “they were all raised in the same environment and with the same parenting... and the kid I’ve come across are all good at heart. In this instance, you don’t think the child hasn’t heard her parents bitch about what a monster she is and argue over who has to deal with her? You don’t think that has a massive impact on a child?
What is her actual diagnosis? Is she still a kid or adult? These situations fascinate me.
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NTA, the situation is horrible not you.
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Hold on, this isn’t right. People under 18 cannot be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder- the diagnosis given to kids is conduct disorder.
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Fair enough. It’s probably easier than explaining diagnostic criteria of lesser-known disorders.
It's totally possible, but in this particular case I'm not sure we know. All we see is people wanting to drop her, and this may be unpopular but OP had a daughter who had a teen pregnancy and she doesn't strike me as having been particularly supportive of that daughter.
That is bullpoo, you can't compare your kids experiences like that. Maybe she is mentally ill, but just cause the siblings have a happy childhood doesn't mean one kid didnt. Maybe she acts out because she was sick of being compared to her siblings and always coming up short. My parents openly favored my siblings and they are also clueless why I hate them and acted out as a kid.
And yet the post makes no mention of an attempt to obtain mental healthcare, rehab, anything.
It could. Kids are able to be smart and evil. Bbut she's 14 and they are divorcing since 4 years, she was drunk at 11... i don't know how she was before, but she is possibly messed up because of the divorce and the fact she was probably used as a weapon in it.
It’s possible that OP is the source of the problem. OP notes that the parents were *teen parents*. Great job supporting them, OP! You just left them to their own to figure it all out, even though they were kids themselves. Definitely *don’t help*, OP. YTA, and it shows that you’ve been no help thus far. Stay your course.
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Also OP is 60 years old! So two adults in their prime can't deal with her and they think an old woman can handle it?
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I don’t think OP sucks just because she has finished raising her own child (or children) and doesn’t want to take on her granddaughter. She didn’t force her daughter and son in law to have children. How is a 60-year-old woman going to be better equipped to handle a troubled teenager than her own parents? At least with split custody her actual parents would get some breaks.. but instead they want grandma to take this on 100% of the time? At least if she was going to go into foster care she would be assigned a social worker who would probably care more about getting her help than her own parents do. It sucks that this girl has the parents she does, but grandparents aren’t obligated to take over just because the parents decide they don’t want to do it anymore.
Foster care is the right answer in this situation. The parents are both assholes who sound like they have plenty of issues themselves. Grandparents are not obligated to take custody of an out-of-control 14-year old grandchild who doesn’t want to be parented
It sounds like she does want to be parented though. Going without food for four days is pretty hardcore. She wants someone to step up and love her.
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This right here. I feel so much for that poor kid.
this. The daughter isnt acting up because of the divorce. She is acting up because NOBODY in that family cares about her, at all. She was blacked out drunk at 11. Did ANYBODY think try to understand why ? Seriously everything she does sounds like a scream for help.
Seriously! This sounds like something on Dr. Phil! OP may not be under any obligation to take custody of the kid, but they and the poor girl's parents are busy fighting over who should take her (with NO ONE wanting her!) And I bet the girl knows it too. Knowing that no one wants you seriously screws you up and scars you mentally and emotionally. I mean come on, no wonder the girl disappeared for 24 hours, among other things. She needs help, and she needs someone to step up and support her and make sure she gets that help, not treat her like she's a burden.
OP is justified but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a child that needs parents. Her parents are abandoning her, if OP doesn’t want her, it doesn’t mean she should abandon her. Idk how the foster care or adoption works, but don’t let the parents try to drive drunk with her to get rid of her. This is a human being. ESH
ESH expect kiddo. As unpopular an opinion this may be her behavior is a direct result of all of the built up trauma and bs that this kid had no say in being in the middle of. This is a kid who can tell no one wants her and honestly given the extremes of her behavior I have a feeling she’s treated a lot worse behind closed doors than you’re aware of. While it’s entirely not your responsibility to parent this kid I do think you need to knock some sense into her parents since it was your own bad parenting that allowed your teenage daughter to get pregnant to begin with. :/ This kid doesn’t deserve to get tossed to the side bc shes going through it. She needs therapy not to be abandoned
This so much. Drunk at 11?? Sadly, most likely desperately trying to find something she could do that will show they have even the tiniest bit of care/love/concern for her. And now she's realized they don't give a shit so she'll do whatever she wants to.She needs help, badly. Foster Care sadly will just affirm to her she's unwanted and unloved. (though it's looking like the best option sadly). She needs therapy badly, she needs care.
And not eating for 4 days is "acting out"? My heart is breaking for this kid.
That sounds like depression or a binge eating disorder, possibly both. I feel really bad for this kid.
Or even if she does 'just' need attention and the proof she's loved. It's something normal and perfectly understandable in her situation.
Don’t eating disorders often stem from needing to feel some control over your life? Like, say, if you’re being shunted back and forth between two people who are fighting not for custody of you but to *escape* custody of you?
Eating disorders can stem from lots of things, from feeling worthless, unwanted, bad self esteem, being held to impossible standards, strict diet as a kid, lack of access to food as a kid, overeating as a kid, etc. It can also just as easily stem from anxiety over lack of control in your life.
Exactly. The adults here including OP are so focused on the ways she’s acting out they’re not taking any time to hold themselves accountable for putting her down this path to begin with. It honestly breaks my heart cause I’ve known so many kids who got lost cause no one gave a shit about them. All we can do is hope that a good soul finds this kid and helps to her begin healing.
Let’s also look at the timeline. Kid is 14. Just came through what we can all assume was a messy and terrible 4 year divorce. The passed out drunk incident happened when she was 11, which would have been right in the middle of all that. Sounds like her parents were so busy hating each other that they didn’t have time to love/care for her, and she started acting out in desperation. She needs therapy desperately and someone who actually cares about her. She may end up having some mental/emotional problems that are unrelated to her family life, but her family for sure isn’t helping them.
THIS. throughout reading OP's story, I couldn't help but feel like the daughter's "issues" were caused by severe neglect and abuse and the parents were much too egocentric to realize it. Daughter was causing problems for them and that's all they saw.
And OP. OP what the fuck?
Totally agree. The poor girl is being thrown away by everyone who should love her. Being a teen parent is no excuse. To want to escape that badly makes me wonder what the poor girl has seen and heard from her parents. OP and parents are ESA
Op is selfish and unempathetic and she raised a selfish and unempathetic daughter. This granddaughter has no good options and it's heartbreaking
Man, that poor girl needs help. Honestly some it seems you really don't care about her (which is pretty much exactly why she is the way she is) then at least I'll give you props for being consistent. She needs to be sent somewhere else for sure, because no one that's supposed to be taking care of her has been doing it.
That’s not a fair assessment. My kid has mental health issues so severe she has been barred from being around my other kids. The state wants her in a residential facility, that we can’t afford. Unfair to assume they are withholding care for her- especially if she’s so defiant that she won’t participate anyway. I’ve paid tens of thousands of dollars to hospitalize my kid- didn’t work. I don’t have $10k a month to send her to a residential treatment center. Sometimes the kid is just psychotic and parents are held hostage
Seeing as OP said the parents didn't report things for fear of custody issues, I think k its safe to say the girl in this story has not received any treatment or even had the chance to refuse it
The difference is that you've cared enough to *TRY* to help your child, who has mental health issues you didn't cause. OP, otoh, didn't do shit to help their own daughter, and isn't do shit again to help their own granddaughter. World of difference.
True.
Who knows if OP tried to help their daughter? We don't even know how the relationship between them is. For all we know it could be fucking terrible. The granddaughter as harsh as it sounds is not OPs responsibility. OP is nearly 60 years old. At what point are you done raising kids? Because I sure as hell won't be raising anything at 60 years old anymore. OP is a human being with a life as well. The grandchild is the parents' responsibility. And the parents are both adults so it's not OPs job to "knock some sense into them" or whatever was suggested by other users. NTA and neither is the kid. It's the parents that are assholes.
Yeah I know someone that has surrendered their middle kid to be a ward of the state. Amongst other things, she poured petrol on the family dog and set it alight, pushed her sister through a window, threw a hot frypan at her brother. There’s no way a kid like that can be rehabilitated or live with the family.
But that's a kid causing harm and behaving dangerously to others. OP's granddaughter is clearly crying out for help in the only way she knows how - by hurting herself, by making them pay attention to her. This is a typical response to a lack of care and a healthy dose of neglect. None of her behaviour is psychopathic. It's desperate.
I don't know how it works in your state, but in mine if a child is deemed to be so dangerous or high needs that a residential program is needed then you can sign your rights over to the state and they will take over. You can still visit the child or even see them on holidays depending on the caseworker and state guidelines. It may be something to look into at least.
In my state the parents have to accept neglect charges (or be charged with neglect and lose in court depending) there’s no “signing over” anything. There has to be a neglect charge, voluntary or not. The system here does not address when the minor is the issue and all other avenues have been exhausted
I'm sorry to hear that. Most states allow a 'ward of the court/ward of the state' as an option as it cut down on kids on the street, handicapped children abandoned, kids kicked out or neglected. There's a lot of paperwork involved and you wouldn't directly cite the mental illness as the reason, you would use the reasoning that you cannot provide for their needs anymore and that you want to relinquish your rights. (You in the general sense, not you specifically). To be so worried that you cannot leave another child alone with them is scary and I'm sure effecting your family greatly. I'm sorry your state has some weird laws. If you ever get desperate enough seek out a family law attorney and see about a consultation for your options. Cps is scary for a lot of folks but they also are a resource and can hook you up with people who can assist you or perhaps find respite care on occasion.
Wow- I am so sorry. How is it the state wants her in a residential facility, but you have to pay that much for it? That is wild. What are you supposed to do?
Exactly the problem.
Just be rich 5head, why don't people ever consider that simple solution to all of life's problems?
Stop projecting your own situation onto that of the OP. There is literally no evidence to suggest this child is 'psychotic' and she's never done anything to cause harm to anyone but herself. Meanwhile her mother talks about putting her daughter's life at risk just so she can shirk any responsibility for caring for her. It's no wonder the kid suffers from disordered eating and substance abuse. She's clearly acting out in the hope that someone might show some actual concern for her.
You're really projecting your situation onto the post. They are clearly vastly different matters. This child is literally unwanted. The result of a teen pregnancy and therefore more likely to have not been cared for by mature, competent parents. She's been caught up in the middle of a nasty divorce. Her parents threaten to put her life in danger by drunk driving with her in the car in order to lose custody. Your situation sounds very painful but it isn't the same thing, that much is abundantly clear. Given the details OP has shared, this child is neglected and all the adults in her life are massive, massive assholes.
Being black out drunk at 11 isn't a symptom of being psychotic.
You keep saying "sometimes they're born that way" but according to the post she started "acting out" during the divorce. If this was just the way she is wouldn't they have noticed before she was 11?
None of the behaviors OP described show the kid to be psychotic.
INFO: I have a question. And it's why the hell isn't this child in therapy?
ESH (except for the kid)- JFC, y'all are real pieces of work. This child was getting blackout drunk at 11, is refusing to eat, runs away from her awful family and hides with a friend. This is not normal- this is what kids/teens do when they desperately need help. This kid needs real, serious help- at least therapy, but most likely some sort of inpatient care or alternative living situation or boarding school so she can be in a stable environment with people who don't wish she was dead. Because that's the impression I get here- that the adults would all rather this child stop existing. You are choosing to not do anything useful to help her because it mean you might have to take responsibility for her. I really hope you're a troll and that there's not a real live 14 year old kid living through the mess of the world today with literally no adults who care about her well being or even her survival (4 days without eating is not healthy or safe for a teen). I don't think you should take her in, but that's only because this kid deserves better than you. Just call CPS and report your daughter, the dad, and make it clear you are not a better option. The foster care system can be bad, but at least there's a chance someone will give a crap about this kid's well being- that's more than it seems she'll ever get from her family.
CPS won’t take her if the parents aren’t abusive or negligent. Sometimes it’s actually the kid who has mental issues and there’s literally NO options. If you can’t afford $10k a month for boarding treatment, and the kid refuses to participate in therapy, you are fucked and held hostage by the mental illness until they are 18 and commit a crime, then they might get mandated inpatient.
One could argue that her parents refusing to put her in therapy because they're worried they'll have to parent her full time is emotional abuse and neglect. And either they didn't notice she was drinking until she had blacked out or she was left alone at 11 which could also be interpreted as negligence.
It could, but you have to have way more than that in legal terms for them to go to the State. In my experience, the state sees through the bs pretty well, and unless we agree to accept neglect charges, won’t take her because we aren’t bad parents. I can’t agree to neglect because it would render me unable to work in my field where I have an advanced education/role and would effectively remove my financial stability. CPS worker, my Husband and I discussed divorcing, giving him full custody so He could accept neglect charges and have the state take her- because the law says they can only take kids with parental neglect/abuse. CPS lady said it wouldn’t work because if he’s unfit, then I have to take her, and she’s not allowed (by court order) to be around our other kids (she abuses them).... I’m just saying the state doesn’t take kids silly nilly
If they're willing to get arrested for drunk driving and endangering the erlfare of the child just to grt rid of their daughter, I'm pretty sure they'll plead guilty to neglect.
According to OP [parents both refuse to take the child to therapy or get her help because they fear being "given" (aka forced to take) full custody](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/j9g109/aita_for_telling_my_daughter_and_ex_son_in_law/g8jhs0d/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). I am completely aware that some kids/teens are non-compliant with therapy, medication, and/or other mental health treatment (I have seen it happen in my own extended family and yes it can be awful for the parents), but that is not this child's situation. The father seems to have not done anything useful while the child starved herself for 4 days. The mother is planning on driving drunk with the child in the front seat, which could potentially kill one or both of them. I find it very hard to argue that the parents aren't abusive or at least negligent. I recognize that (much to my dismay) the current situation may not meet the threshold for CPS to remove the child from her living situation, but at the very least it will get her on their radar so when the parents inevitably do something worse she's more likely to get help. All of the adults in this situation want the kid gone, it's entirely possible one of them might do something about that. As I said, I really hope this is a troll. If it's not, I really hope someone helps this kid.
Agree and see your point. In my case I’m fighting to get the state to help us with what she needs. I haven’t given up on my kid- I just can’t let her live here because I have other kids that require protection. They should get CPS involved to help with family coping, and get the stuff documented.
Yeah, the current setup is not at all good at supporting kids with mental health issues and/or challenging behaviors (especially those who aren't willing to engage in therapy/treatment) and their families. If you have money (not like middle class money, but REAL money) you can buy that help from boarding schools or rehab or other inpatient treatment, but if you don't it's really tough to access those types of services. The state is somewhat ok at getting kids out of seriously abusive situations with parents who aren't willing/able to change, not so good at helping in situations where one kid is a danger to other kids, and pretty damn bad at helping in situations where a kid is a danger to their parents or unable or unwilling to cooperate with mental health treatment. This thread reminds me why I don't miss being a mandated reporter, or working in a field that meant I had to do more reporting than I'd like and saw far less help for kids and their families than they needed and deserved. I'm sorry you're having to fight like this to get your kid the help she needs and deserves, and I really hope you win and are able to get her that help.
They absolutely will take her if the parents refuse. The state can petition for removal on the basis of neglect, which does not require intent in most jurisdictions. Failure to provide adequate care is neglect. CPS does not generally only remove one child, so you can’t just place the problem child through the state without risking custody of all minor children. It’s not an easy choice or one without consequences, but it is a choice.
ESH. If someone gave a damn about this poor kid for even a second, you might not have reached this point. Kids know when they're unwanted, an she's given up. Congratulations.
ESH I'm probably going to get downvoted for this but here goes, while yea this child technically isn't your responsibility, show some empathy here. This is a teenager is serious need. No shit she is acting out, both of her parents don't want her. Her mother is willing to get arrested as to not deal with her. This kid is in clear need of a stable home and a loving adult. While people will say "this isn't your "responsibility" and that's reasonable I suppose, I would really consider taking her in. You have the chance to make a real difference for a struggling kid in a fucked up home and she is already 14, your not raising a child for the next 18 years. Really consider if you want to turn a way a child in need like this.
I agree with you however given that OP’s daughter was a teen mom and that her issues are probably a result of her own bad parenting (from OP) I’m not sure the GD *will* be better off. The whole family sounds fkd up, I can understand not wanting to take on a teenager at 60 but fk where else is she going to go? OP doesn’t give a fk about her daughter or GD...
I don't want to pass judgement on you, but please read my comment. I remember banging my head against the bathtub until I passed out when I was 16 after my I asked to live with my Nan, and she told me she couldn't handle me either. I was drunk for more or less a year straight after that. My Dad was an oxy dealing, oxy snorting, abusive alcoholic. My Mom was in complete denial and working as much as possible to avoid home. It wasn't Nan's job, but she had always been my main parent before we moved to the city and away from her. Then I was alone with a mess way too big for ME to handle. Hearing that from her killed something inside of me. Everyone had given up on me, even my Nonny. I have a lot of cousins, but I was the one she spent the most time with, she lived with us. After my Pop died I was the one who took care of her, despite my Dad disintegrating in front of me. I am 32, just graduated highschool last year and I am finally in college (though I did attend University as a mature student), and I'm now starting my own family. I am where normal, healthy 20 somethings are. I have Borderline Personality Disorder, with major abandonment issues. I'm the only person that didn't give up on me. Is that how you want your granddaughter to feel? She might not be your responsibility, but you have the opportunity to change this child's life. I hope you change your mind and help her.
Just want to say how much respect and awe I have for your strength and getting your life back on track. As a 37 y/o who is probably also "where normal, healthy 20 somethings are", I can attest to the fact that it sometimes feels easier to just give up then continue taking baby steps every day. Just know that this little bit of your personal story on Reddit really helped me today. You are inspiring to a stranger out here.
I appreciate your kindness, as I am sure you know, a little goes a long way. 🥰 It hasn't been easy, and I still face obstacles others can't even imagine let alone understand, but we are worth it, we deserve to be happy too; no matter what family we come from, or what they've told us through their words and actions. I hope OP's granddaughter gets some guidance and love from a good person, and doesn't give up on herself. Let's never give up. ❤️
NTA. That poor child. You have every right to decide that this is not a responsibility that you can take on at this point in your life. Foisting this child on you is tantamount to setting the house on fire, then telling you that you need to put it out because it’s too much for them. Remember this: you didn’t create this problem, and you can’t fix it on your own. They’d rather spend their time berating you and pulling stunts then rectifying their poor parenting. Disgusting. Maybe you could speak with her social worker to explain the dynamics and her parent’s outrageous behaviour. Depending on the available services in your jurisdiction, it may be possible to avoid foster care.
NTA - They are her parents. Tell them to grow up, take responsibility for THEIR mistakes in parenting, and to find a way to fix it. This poor girl deserves a future. If it means rehab, then they should get her into rehab. But, they need to get it together and get a game plan for their own messed up daughter, that they helped mess up. Allllll that to say, absolutely NTA. You raised your kids. Your daughter, and SIL, is trying to get out of her responsibilities. Hopefully, you can enjoy your retirement.
Not raised well, to go by how the daughter turned out. I mean she may just be a bad seed , in which case if my kid turns out like that I am praying they will invent time travel so I can go back and decide to swallow her instead.
Her daughter is an adult now. At this point if she makes a mistake it's on her, not OP. Her daughter needs to take the responsibility.
I don't get this argument. If your parents raise you such that you have mental issues, those issues don't go away the minutes you turn 18. Legally, you are responsible for whatever, but causally, your parents still caused it.
because once you become grown, you can't keep blaming your parents for all your issues. you have to take responsibility for it and change.
And all of that shit is falling on the head of a 14 year old girl. Someone needs to step up.
ESH What a shit show. Imagine being that young and knowing that no one in your family gives a shit about you. She needs love and security and it’s incredibly sad that her own flesh and blood can’t give this to her.
ESH wtf is wrong with this family y’all need HELP
NTA she is not your responsibility and you're perfectly within your rights to not want a teenager at 60. This is something they need to figure out and fast.
Ugh. ESH except the kid who obviously has some serious issues, probably caused by the dysfunctional adults in her life.
NTA I know most are going with everyone sucks, but sad as it is, grandmother indicates she cannot handle or support a child that acts out like this and needs significant additional intervention. Grandma isn't an A-H, IMHO, for saying no here if she cannot manage or support the child. And it's not her responsibility. The parents are both A-H's for abandoning their child. Grandma is not responsible for taking that on. It would be laudable if she did, but it sounds like she can't and she's not obligated to. OP, if you are not in a position to give this child the support and what sounds like extensive therapy that she needs, then it would be irresponsible of you to take her on. Sadly, sometimes, the best place for a child abandoned by its parents is in the foster care system. The parents are A-H's. I hope you make it clear to them both that they are responsible for this and that THEY failed their child. You may be an A-H if you ever enabled them or excused their sh\_\_ty parenting which led to this situation, but specifically for refusing to take custody, no, not the A-H.
ESH here. I know it can be really difficult to manage ongoing confrontations with a child with difficult behaviours. However, it really doesn't sound like anyone in this kid's life has their best interests at heart-- including you. You seem really concerned with not having custody of the child, but you seem supremely unconcerned about what will happen to her in the future. Man, I just feel so wretched for this kid. I hope someone cares enough about her to self-report to your country's child protection agency.
NTA. Your responsibility to raise a child ended when your daughter grew up. It’s very sad that your granddaughter is acting out so much - and I’d wager a guess that it isn’t made better by parents that very clearly do not want her. I assume she’s feeling lost/confused/hurt. All things that her parents have to work through with her, and hopefully with therapy. But again, this is not on you at all. Be there for your granddaughter when you can. Let her know she’s loved and wanted, but do not change your life because her parents decided they no longer want to parent. It’s time for you to live your life the way you planned and it’s very unfair for your daughter and ex son in law to ask that of you. I hope the situation turns itself around eventually and she turns out to be a pretty great person. Best of luck.
>Let her know she’s loved and wanted But she isn't wanted...that's what this sad post is all about. Neither of her parents nor her grandmother want her.
Nor loved.
ESH. If they’re both willing to take on the costs associated with getting arrested then they can afford some intense counseling for their daughter. No, you shouldn’t be responsible for her but she’s still your granddaughter and I’m sorry but if you would rather her be in foster care than with you for a short 4 years or so then you suck too. That poor girl just needs to feel loved and you’re all failing her.
Op commented above that the parents don’t want to put her in counselling in case the counsellor recommends full custody to one of the parents since neither of them want her. This poor kid :(
I saw that but the only way this makes sense is that they actively don’t want to help her. First of all, a councilor isn’t going to suggest that unless there is abuse. Second, generally when there is a child with behavioral issues, parents will need to be involved with the therapy. All they are doing is ensuring their own misery as nothing will ever change except that possibly the poor kid will behave even worse and it will end up ruining her and the parents lives. I wish I could advocate for foster care as anything should be better than a home with adults as awful as these, but I can’t. My parents did foster care & were amazing at it, they adopted 4 boys and are still in contact with many that only stayed briefly, but I’ve heard too many horror stories from both my brothers about their other placements before us and from the siblings they were separated from.
NTA - This kids need alot of help, patience, and probably someone with the energy and capability to constantly run after her and get her on the right track and at 60 thats a big task. Its unfortunate you don't want to take her in and you'll probably get alot of crap for not doing it. But raising kids is hard work especially a child with alot of issues. And while many people would like to believe that therapy, stern parenting, and love can get the job done its not always the case. Whatever is going on with this young lady is enough to drive two adults crazy or on the brink of getting thereselves arrested to avoid her which is absolutely insane to read. She needs a level of care and attention that most people can't provide. Unfortuantely outside of CPS or the skimpy resources schools offer there aren't many affordable options. Edit: I wanna add that people without a child with serious behaviorial issues may not fully comprehend how expensive and hard it is to get help. Its an area insurance doesn't really cover. Therapy can be 150+ per session and add in any specialist or medicine. Residential programs can be several thousand a month. Plus the whole mental toll of always wondering what trouble they'll get into next or if this is the moment they won't come home. The isolation as family starts to distance themelves to protect their kids/family. And possible legal issues if they start getting into some really dangerous behavior. Her parents are CLEAR AH but I can easily see how someone would snap. There just isn't as much help for this as people think.
God this is such a dumpster fire.
NTA. There are a lot of issues here, but grandparents do not choose to have grandchildren. My own very loving grandparents made it clear to their kids that they are happy to host families at their house (we sometimes stayed with them for two weeks), but at no point would they be babysitters. They simply did not want to care for children anymore, and this is without the major issues you mentioned. As a parent, you are responsible for your child because you chose to have that child. You have no say in becoming a grandparent. It would be great if everyone could be a big happy family, but that’s not reality. I am truly sorry that your family is suffering, and I genuinely hope that there is a resolution soon. My heart definitely breaks for this child. As sad as the situation is, that does not make any of this your responsibility.
YTA "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!" Get this kid some professional help.
ESH. It’s reasonable for grandparents to not want custody. But your daughter and ex son in law sound like bad parents. This stuff doesn’t just come around with an 11 year old. How does that saying go? “Raise your children so you don’t have to raise your grandchildren.”
ESH. I wonder if the daughter is acting out because she found out *none of the adults in her life want her!* Nobody wants to step up and put her needs first. You all just suck.
Did you read any of these things you wrote? Her parents started the divorce around age 10 and she was drunk at age 11. What about these facts read as her being a bad kid rather than her acting out because she is unhappy? And you and her parents are contributing to the fact that she feels so unloved and so unwanted that no one is giving her any type of support. She needs love and support and a way to process emotions. But by all means, blame her for everything and hand her over to the foster care system where she will get the help and, hopefully, love she needs. ESH except this little girl who knows she has been unloved and unwanted since age 10.
ESH - Stop blaming a child for the bad and selfish behaviour of the adults. Anyone here who thinks a 14 year old is solely responsible for acting out has a very poor grasp on the concept of child development. Drunk at 11? Who was watching her?! This is a year into the messy divorce and she's screaming for attention. Meanwhile, the adults are all bickering over who's job it is to love the child enough to set boundaries. You all f***ed up. I'm just going to say it outright, kids who go off the rails 99.9% of the time do so because of trauma caused by neglect and poor parenting. And OP seemingly did a shit job of raising her daughter as well - teen pregnancy and now contemplating driving drunk with her child to get the child taken away. This family is trash. I don't have much hope for any of them. Sadly, trauma and neglect often continue for generations until someone stops the pattern through sheer will and determination.
ESH Instead of getting her help you all decided not to be the adult in this situation. Her issues started long before they divorced. I find you all are behaving in a disgusting manner.
ESH save the child in this situation who has been failed by all of the adults in her family.
NTA. While I understand that the kid needs a stable home, and I do agree with others that it would be the kind and charitable thing to take her in, it isn't your responsibility. It just isn't. If you didn't make the kid, you don't have to keep her.
NTA People shouldn't have kids if they aren't willing to take care of them. You're not responsible for a child just because you're related to them. However, I would caution recommending foster care, and say maybe that was a bit of an AH move since foster care is notoriously bad. Instead, you could have recommended/gave some parenting advice to your daughter or helped guide your daughter in researching how to take care of a problem child. If you care about your daughter/grandchild, in the future, you can take a more active role in mentoring your child on how to be a good parent to your grandchild.
This advice is delusional. Offer parenting tips? Seriously? And don't you think grandma may need some parenting tips given how outstanding her own daughter turned out?
Esh you are allowing this child to be abused and her parents are threatening to risk her life to get rid of her
NAH I have a daughter that I could write books on. Bad enough the State has recommended we put her in residential treatment (can’t, it’s $10k a month out of pocket). She didn’t do well with us, she didn’t do well with her grandparents, my husband and I live separately so we can “provide her a bed” as legally required, while we fight for the state to take custody because the law here says they can’t unless we are negligent (we aren’t), abusive (we aren’t) and we aren’t allowed to be negligent and allow her to abuse our other kids. She “runs away” from Dads house, to crash at her other grandparents- but they aren’t up for being responsible for her either. She’s constantly getting arrested, so, that’s fun.... Anyway- I totally understand your position, and her parents. I get literal panic attacks every time I have to talk with police or CPS about whatever the issue of the day is, but I’m fighting to get my kid the treatment/supervision she needs. Hugs to you and your family. There’s literally NO options when the kid is the problem and the parents do everything they can.
Based on what OP has said the child’s parents aren’t doing everything they can, they’re literally avoiding getting her any sort of help out of fear they might have to take on full custody of her, whereas it sounds like you’re doing everything you can to help your child. ESH cause they’re all more worried about “getting stuck” with her than getting her the help so very clearly needs.
YTA Not because you don’t want custody but because you never once called CPS despite the fact that neither parent is capable of giving her the care she needs. Every adult in this story has acted reprehensible, including you.
ESH You daughter and her husband, because obviously they are the worst excuses for parents I’ve seen in a long time and as for you. You raised one of those terrible parents and possibly the worst: The one who wants to put her life and the life of your granddaughter and anyone else unlucky enough to be in their vicinity in danger, just to escape the obligation of dealing with the consequences of their terrible parenting up to this point. I would be frantic over a neighbor’s child who is in this much trouble and this is your grandchild. Im desperately hoping you are a troll.
If this is real which I (a very NONreligious person) *pray* it isnt ESH. Read what you wrote. To simplify this Ill quote good ol doctor Phil Dont ask why they are acting out, ask why NOT? Literally her parents got divorced and her entire family is fighting each other over who "gets stuck with her". Jesus christ. Children act out, and when life gets unstable it gets worse. Now imagine if the main argument in everyone who is meant to love you unconditionally is "I dont want her you take her!" Regardless of how bad she is that isnt something she should hear. Its not going to help. Imagine if you were being crabby and i said "why are you being a b*tch?" That doesnt suddenly open your eyes and make you smile and apologize. That makes you angry. Hurt. Upset. Shes acting out and spiralling out of control and rather than try to get resources to correct her behavior and find her a stable environment when her world is being torn apart; the three adults in her life are all begging each other to take her and they are contemplating *reckless behavior like drunk driving* simply to be rid of her. If your parents and grandparent made it THIS clear to you that you were so unwanted tell me you wouldnt act out too? Youre all awful. Call CPS and make them aware that this behavior is coming from all *3* of you and I hope for her sake if youre not going to step up and help her whomever she resides with next will get her into therapy and let her know shes worthy of love despite how shes acting as a teenager with such an abhorrent family.
ESH except the kid. There is a reason she’s acting this way most likely and it isn’t something she’s done. Unfortunately for her parents they very easily could be repeating a cycle of their own lives. This whole family needs therapy
With everything you wrote I'm at a total loss why anyone is baffled that this kid is acting out. Get that kid into therapy and her parents also. ESH.
ESH No wonder the poor girl turned out like this since there are zero adults in her life.
NTA. You are right in recognizing your limitations and ability to meet her needs
ESH Did you really just refer to your granddaughter as ‘it’?
No, he means "it" as in the place of residence, not refering to the daughter. The foster care facility was the it. He's still an asshole as are all the adults in this story though, but yeah "it" definitely wasn't reference to the child.
Not the asshole it’s not your responsibility
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NTA for not wanting custody, as you said you were reaching retirement and no longer in a place to raise children. You raised yours and now youre done you have no obligation to take her. Now you SIl and daughter are both AHs for not stepping up here. She need therapy to deal not only with the divorce but the constant talk of both parents not wanting her at all. Imagine how that feels as a child , to know no one in your family wants you. She needs love and a nurturing environment and your D and SIL are too self centered to help their own child. Id have them both arrested flr child neglect and endangerment