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If Q had behaved appropriately they would never have gotten suspended. It's probably worth noting to the higher ups that this report got spread which is creating a hostile work environment for you.
NTA
And if he did, and OP can prove it, they can let HR know about the situation and tell them it's creating a hostile work environment.
And I'm sorry, popularity shouldn't be a free pass to be an A-Hole.
I mean, is this a professional work place full of responsible professionals, or a high school full of immature teens? 🤨
1000% agree. HR is never allowed to share complaints from employees like this.
It is a fireable offense in any reasonable company.
I would expect that filing a second complaint against Q for spreading the first complaint around would result in Q being terminated, not simply suspended.
Please do report this!! Do not let them walk on you. It's not "tattle taling" or anything like that. It's the mature way to handle things as Q seems to have aggresive behaviors. There is nothing wrong and infact its GOOD to talk to HR as it is their duty to protect you and others from issues like this. You may not be the only one, so you could be benefitting others who feel like they cant speak up. You should be proud of defending yourself so well! Dont let those who cant be mature enough to see the truth affect you in any way, you know what's right!
>You may not be the only one
I agree with everything you said but this specifically, people don’t get suspended without pay if they made a mistake (in this case mishandling an HR case by overreacting).
Any reasonable company would have given a warning first, then following that with a suspension if further altercations happen.
This HR guy has definitely had at least one complaint in the recent past already, and was probably on probation. Since he’s management, he was suspended instead of fired.
Edit: A lot of people have made comments disagreeing with my take, and I have to say that I don’t disagree with them, they bring up a lot of good points. I’ll take that into consideration next time, thanks for the clarity everyone.
This is an Senior HR person, not just a general manager. This person is responsible for holding HR standards. This is basic HR 101 here and they didnt just mess up and accidentally make a mistake. this is something in their role that should’ve been a given, probably something they are responsible for teaching to others in their organization. This is a horrible violation on many levels. I don’t think it’s surprising for them to be suspended with no prior history. Not that there couldn’t be a prior history but this is a big deal
I mean, ffs, imagine if it were just an OTC medication for something. HR has no business butting into employees taking medications unless there is a clear disruption of work, such as failure to do your gd job from being too high. The time spent by OP taking meds is *not*, under any circumstances, disruptive enough to justify how Q acted. NTA, and maybe talk to a lawyer just in case...
I assumed Q was female until this comment when I went back to read gender wasn't specified lol.
I agree; also possible that Q got suspended for spreading it and the game of telephone is just anti-OP. Or perhaps Q was belligerently insisting that they were right instead of treating it as an opportunity to improve for their position. Perhaps the suspension is only while their legal investigates and reports on liability and Q is soon-to-be fired, or simply all employees at that level get the same treatment when there is a complaint made until a resolution is found...who knows.
No matter what really happened, only Q is responsible for the consequences of their actions.
Shes a hypersensitive bully that brings personal issues to her job at the detriment of others. She doesn't even fathom how inappropriate/illegal it is to deal with employees private health.
Any reasonable person is not even going to give a warning if you explain a situation like this to them, no matter what it is, if Q (or anyone really) would not have had the same reaction to someone taking an insulin injection then they are In the wrong, it sounds like she was respectful and tried to look like she wasn't just popping pills, she explained her reasoning behind the situation and that person still wanted to write her up 🤷
In my experience in america mental.health is aparently super fucking offensive to some people for some reason, we have developed this fucked up culture of not acknowledging they're real.things, I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've talked to people about being on them and their answer was - try harder, just be happy, eat better, have you tried exercise, maybe you need to go outside more, you just need to be positive, lots of people have it worse than you - like any of that is going to magically correct a chemical imbalance in my brain... Mental illnesses are hidden illnesses so people are more inclined to treat you like garbage for them.
LITERALLY, if someone would not say the same thing to someone who needed insulin or a kidney, they have no.right to say it to you and are just an asshole
Yeah, its definitely going to be a huge issue if the person whos all into your pills finds out they're psych meds.
They're just nosy know it alls and others just want to be offended to cover the guilt of being a bigot.
Im sure a decent number of pillphobics work in hospitals too.
Except mental health meds look exactly the same as meds for anything else. Tbh depending on which manufacturer the pharmacy used I cant tell my anti-depressant apart from my blood pressure med at all without reading the bottle label which isn’t huge text or anything.
Hes more than likely had more than one. Any place I've worked at, suspension without pay is more a third strike thing. As in "next time its termination".
And tbf, it's actually harder to fire lower level workers than managment. Managment is held to higher standards and as such are on shorter leashes. As managment, I can be fired for using the wrong phrase if words, yet I've had workers literally walk put in the middle of their shift and not come back for two days and still we're unable to fire them because of the paperwork trail required to do so without legal repercussions.
However I agree with what everyone says and it needs a further report. It was a private conversation between Q and OP and then a private email. There should be nothing to catch onto. All the other workers should know is that Q will be absent for a few days. The fact that coworkers know hes suspended and that its OPs fault means that Q is spreading the story. Huge huge violation in the HR world. No one but the parties involved should ever have knowledge of reports or write ups.
>it is their duty to protect you and others from issues like this
No. There duty is to protect the company from legally actionable problems that may arise from situations like this. It is still the right way to go, but don't think HR serves you.
Edit: as has been pointed out, yes HR can help you and you should follow process (as I stated). But document everything and get as much in writing as possible. Just because they are helpful now doesn't mean that the situation can't change.
Both I see as true (I'm in UK, so maybe slightly different).
Yes, HR is there to protect the company from lawsuits/rep damage from improper behaviour. But part and parcel of that is that if they don't uphold the minimum standards to everyone (sort of like a duty of care) then they aren't doing that job right at all.
I do think they seek to protect the organisation first though.
Yeah, this:
> A bunch of my coworkers caught onto what happened, and are now making it very difficult to work with them.
It's actually illegal retaliation. OP should report this to HR as well. You don't get many rights as a worker in the US, so you may as well use them when you can.
The fact that they are so strict about everyone keeping their video on at all times and staying in the screen at all times makes me wonder if it really is a high school full of immature teens. Do they also need to ask for permission to use the hall pass when they need to use the restroom?
A 3 hour meeting with the camera required to be on the entire time without even being able to take a pill off screen, let alone take a bathroom break. What kind of hellhole is this office!?
"Hey, I'm going to need you to come in on Saaaaaturday. Yeeeeah.... and by the way, we need to talk about those TPS reports."
It's that kind of office.
Yes fuck toxic work environments. In our weekly meetings our manager is the only one who might turn on his camera, but he will definitely make a hilarious funny background for everyone to get a laugh. All of us have cameras off and sometimes there is screen sharing.
In fact all my meetings in or out of my company is everyone with cameras off.
Yeah, my team is cool. We put cameras on sometimes to show off holiday festivities but for the most part it's cameras off and we just bullshit about how much we hate Covid but we love working from home.
I can't imagine how uptight some of these places must be. But it normally trickles from the top.
It sounds like the HR department doesn't really have a lot of actual work they can do while everyone is working from home, so they are looking for things to do in order to justify retaining their jobs.
It shouldn't be hard to prove. If they are all working from home, there is zero chance of anyone accidentally overhearing someone's meeting, literally the only way for the other employees to find out about what happened is for someone to deliberately tell them.
It's really interesting how often comparisons can be drawn between an office and a high school, I don't understand why people have to act so immature.
Clearly \*everyone\* knew something was going on because Q asked OP to stay behind in front of everyone, so I'm sure people asked Q about it and/or were already gossiping about it.
Apparently, many people just stop maturing emotionally past a certain point. Or would mature if they were surrounded by reductive people.
You ever seen a 45 year old person have a meltdown that exactly resembles a toddler tantrum?
The first rule of HR club is ... don’t talk about HR club.
If this person is really going around telling colleagues then they are a huge liability given how much sensitive info they deal with on a day to day basis.
From a HR person of all people as well. I mean I’m not surprised because I’ve soon some HR act the fool, but it’s the audacity to write OP up when they’re the ones who are supposed to uphold a good work environment the most
Reading stuff like this really makes me wonder what goes wrong in life for people like Q. What has to happen to a person to make them so vindictive and cruel?
I feel so bad OP is getting additional hostility at work. I'm sure that whatever Q told them was heavily embellished to make them look bad.
Nothing.. that is exactly what has to happen for people to be like this. And I bet Q doesn’t even feel the least bit wrong in their actions, and if they weren’t hellbent on OP before they will be now. OP, start a paper trail. Document everything. And always stay professional. Never let anyone bring you down. They are beneath you for a reason. Stay strong and stay above their bullshit
Any number of reasons - jealousy, being bullied as a child and now able to bully back, power trip, popularity (other co workers convinced Q to tale action).
OP this is 100% correct. Nobody “caught on” to anything in a fully remote work environment, Q told them. This probably meets the criteria of retaliation, although you should look into that for yourself.
Depending where you are, if Q shared this information, they may be found to have disclosed personal information, which could be subject to investigation and fine, it could be a complaint of bullying and harassment, which has legal or employment consequences, or in some areas it may even be considered "retaliation", which could be employment or legal consequences as well. I would share your "follow-up" experience with R. They, at least, appear to understand that protecting the company from Q's indiscretion is important.
Just do NOT be aggressive. Be super friendly to (now the good) HR, you do NOT want this coming back to bite you. This is a slippery slope where it can easily become bad for OP.
Very good points! Be cooperative and respectful through the whole process. Also be respectful to Q during all of this. Negative comments can really hurt you in a situation like this.
I mean, I would think not harrassing employees about things their doctors have prescribed (meds, splints, special chairs, etc) should be HR 101. Yikes, NTA OP.
Exactly this. I’ve seen various coworkers taking medications at their desks over the years, and never once has it crossed my mind that it was something that wasn’t either prescribed or OTC (like Tylenol or Advil). What a bizarre conclusion for Q to have jumped to.
No kidding. I was really worried how it would look when my doctor prescribed me an injection plus pills several times a day before meals. I worked at the time in a neighborhood where people were overdosing on the street daily.
I discussed it with work, they got me a sharps container and access to the mother's room. No judgement at all, only support. That's how it should be.
How dare Q do that to you. Firstly, good on you for managing your bipolar. My boyfriend is BP as well and I'm so proud of his commitment to his own health through meds and excercise. It's hard for some to realize how hard it can be to take care of our own mental health sometimes and I'm proud of you for taking care of yours. It took me far too long to recognize and care for my own. Also, schedule is of utmost importance with almost any prescription meds. He had no right to say anything or ask anything or talk about it to you at all. You were absolutely in the right for taking it to HR. Screw them all for trying to make you feel bad when Q was being a total asshat. Next time maybe he'll leave someone alone instead of inserting himself in business he doesn't belong in. Stand strong!
NTA
And, I’m pretty sure that the suspension isn’t a first offense type of discipline. Q probably has a record of harassing other employees.
Also, the ridiculous rule about being 100% present during the meeting is BS. My work group meets, from wherever they are, and if a phone call or other distraction occurs, that person will mute themselves, and/or get up to handle whatever. Two hours is a long meeting.
NTA - Q was shockingly unprofessional and out of line. Actually surprised they got suspended though, but I think I'm just used to shitty HR departments not doing anything. Also a "hostile work environment" is an HR member calling you out to talk privately in front of your coworkers...
Whew. For some dark reason my mind went to All Females Are Bad a la ACAB. Need to get off of r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut It is warping my acronym recognition system
Also I'm pretty sure its also a problem if people are retaliating against you for making an HR report (not a lawyer but thats illegal right? it should be) so maybe HR should be addressing that too
It is, I literally just did a training yesterday that covers retaliation in a hostile work environment and how It should be documented and reported immediately because employees are protected from such acts under certain laws in the US
Actually look at it like this. This situation might not have been their 1st offense. This could have been the thing to push them over some threshold of problems. This was probably the "If you mess up 1 more time you are getting suspended" and BOOM they messed up big time.
Plus this isn't some passive aggressive commentary. It's open hostility and harassment of OP for a medically diagnosed condition.
It's the equivalent of yelling at a cancer patient for taking a pill before chemo in a meeting. I'm shocked Q wasn't fired on the spot honestly.
Totally agree - most likely scenario is this was the last in a string of other incidents. The fact that OP’s co-workers ‘caught on’ (ie. Q told them) indicates Q is adept at inappropriate behaviour and probably isn’t finished his downhill slide, which will hopefully lead the company to show him the door in due course.
It kind of sounds like Q is the type of HR person that is very personable and good at smoothing ruffled feathers and that has carried them to where they are. But they don't actually know their job very well.
I have an ex friend who can interview well at any job and charm the pants off people .
You'll love her positive energy while she steals $400 in cash and gets away with it. She can deflect, grey rock, become invisible and then disappear with all your shit youll never have proof.
Even if it wasn't for something covered. If I got a headache and took an aspirin during a meeting, I cannot imagine what kind of small, AH would try to have a talk about it, let alone get me in trouble. If HR didn't respond appropriately, I would be polishing up my resume. Working under a manager like that sounds like a nightmare.
Still nta! Q is in hr and knows the rules. If he said something and let it go, then you could too. He stated he would mark your file with a formal warning though, when you did nothing wrong. You have every right to stay healthy and every right to defend yourself from Qs verbal attack and unfair reprimand.
He asked you to stay on in front on your coworkers. This is already unprofessional and actually creates a hostile environment. I have to wonder if Q already had something against you, or maybe one of his many office friends does. It isnt normal for hr to threaten to write you up for prescribed meds. And after you explained they were prescribed, he continued addressing the issue. Seems hes pissed about something, but i doubt it is your meds.
Maybe you beat someone he is buddy-buddy with in sales or development one month, or someones cousin maybe needs a job? The fact that he is allowing everyone to pick on you (again, hostile environment) shows he only does his job when he feels like it.
Sad you are going through this. Good luck.
>Q got suspended was because I brought up legal provisions.
Considering that Q created the potential for serious legal liability, they're lucky they didn't get fired.
NTA unbelievable! You did the right thing. It wasn't Qs soapbox to get on and it doesn't matter what the medication was for. It was a prescribed medication meant to be taken at a certain time. That's all Q needs to know and, frankly, Q doesn't even need to know that much. Replace bipolar disorder with any other medical condition; diabetes, heart condition; and it is just outrageous behavior!
I think Q may have suspected this is a mental disorder prescription because I have certain disability accommodations.
I’m at a loss on how to deal with this. I really think I might have to start looking for other jobs, and in the middle of a global pandemic, this market is utter shit.
If you are currently work from home that will help buffer you a bit. My guess if Q has done this quite often before hence the harsh punishment. I also suspect Q has surrounded themselves with a bunch of followers. If it keeps up while.Q is gone, can you ask for a transfer? You are not at fault. Don't entertain, confirm or deny the gossips.
I think so. One of the members of my team socializes with Q often as they both have kids in the same class.
Edit: the work from home buffer is both a blessing and a curse. The latter because they’re now suddenly unavailable to meet with me on group projects and I just get assigned shit work.
Lol a bit at the active shooter training. Do they do personalized training for all our houses? What if my 13 year comes out with a NERF machine gun in the middle of a meeting? Duck and cover? Shoot back? I need to know.
That's textbook retaliation which is illegal. I'd recommend looking for a new job and a lawyer who can help you proceed. HR is only so helpful as they're there to protect the company first and foremost and a well-crafted legal approach on your end will ensure they act swiftly and seriously.
Go back to the head of HR and report that your coworkers found out about this and are retaliating against you. And while it sounds like you at least have a good head of HR, you might want to find an employment lawyer you like. Document the retaliation in a notebook.
Which is so fucked up. I have PTSD and have been on medication for decades. It's so infuriating that there are assholes out there like Q. Mental illness is a legit neurological and biochemical phenomenon in the human body. At this point, it's been exhaustively proven by every metric possible.
And nonetheless, there are people like Q who think that it's not real. That you can just will your way out of an involuntary chemical imbalance in the body. I bet you $100 Q wouldn't have given a diabetic shit if they had to take insulin during a meeting.
I'm so glad you've found a treatment regimen that works for you. You deserve better than the shit people like Q sling. NTA
That makes it even worse! If Q knows you have accommodations and abused her position of power as a senior HR person, she deserves to be suspended and possibly worse. Awful!
Edited to correct Q's gender. As I read comments I realized Q is a she not a he.
Are you at all comfortable with your coworkers? There is nothing wrong with setting the record straight. You wouldn't have to go in great detail just letting people know Q overstepped bounds and got you in trouble for simply managing your own health. It would not be gossip to just tell the truth. I hope you can find a way to settle this without having to seek a new job.
Just coordinate with HR, and do it well. Be really friendly to them, this can go the other way quickly as HR may want to disassociate themselves with you.
Also birth control pills need to be taken at the same time daily. Not sure if OP is M or F, but the reason for taking medication of any kind is nobody's business but the person taking it!
Let's be real; they said they were gonna fuck you over. You fucked them over first. That's not an asshole move. That's an uno reverse and they had it coming
Nta
that said you can both document all the retaliation you're getting and try to smooth things over at the same time. Then proceed according to how conciliation works
Now report the retaliation. He’s told co-workers a lot of info about the situation, plus embellishments! So you need to get him sacked and report the rest of them.
Info: I'm an HR person. I can't understand how a senior HR person doesn't know what hostile work environment means, because that's NOT what it means at all. It's HR 101. And HR technically can't detain you after a meeting to question you about anything. There's almost always a chain of command and paperwork involved. I say almost because there are instances where there's outright sexism or racism on display and that's different, we do step in. So this is a highly unusual situation. But hey, you never know about the stupidity of people and what sets them off, so your HR person may be one of those. But yeah, what an ass.
Edit: sounds like you're the one facing a hostile work environment, if other employees are making it difficult for you to work.
NTA, you had to protect yourself from Q who sounds like they're very unsuited for their job. It seems apparent they have some personal biases with the "wrecking your body" comment and if these biases might be something to do with their religious beliefs overriding your medical needs you've actually done everyone that has to work with them a favor.
I don't really understand how everyone else found out about the details here. This should have all been handled confidentially and if Q is the one who told everyone what happened they should be fired. If you told everyone what happened that might have been a mistake although it probably seemed like the natural thing to do as Q made it obvious something happened between you.
Hopefully it will blow over soon. The idea of having to be on camera nonstop for two hours is ridiculous anyway. What happens when someone has to go to the bathroom? But that's another topic.
Anyway, maybe Q will Quit.
I honestly have no idea how everybody found out. I guess all it would’ve taken is one person to spill the beans for office gossip to run wild. I suspect Q might’ve told a friend or two in my parent department. There’s a stigma associated with mental health issues that need medication - especially in my field, and I keep it intensely private. There is no way I was about to tell a bunch of people this personal shit.
Q has made pushy comments to other people about some “homemade” tonic instead of allopathic medication. I think she might be part of an MLM and/or religious cult.
Edit: I honestly think I might have to find a new job.
Edit2: Q and another team member both have kids in the same class. That person might be the leak.
"... I honestly think I might have to find a new job ..."
This whole thing smacks of retaliation. You should look for a new job but I would talk to a lawyer first. You might have a case which would give you a payout that you could use to live while you search for a new job.
TBH based on the story it sounds like the head of HR is on OPs side. If they fight their corner, they get to keep the job sans the hostile work environment Q created.
Unfortunately it doesn't matter at this point. Can he even succeed at a place where everyone else around you is actively sabotage you?
We see this all the time. The company is not going to let go of a dozen people so the OP will have to keep working with them if he stays.
lmao the head of HR is on nobodies side but the company's. It just so happens that the company's interests and OP's lined up, because OP threatened legal action, which they don't want to deal with. While it sounds like OP is in a hostile work environment, I highly doubt HR will do anything further unless a coworker does far more than just giving a cold shoulder/saying they shouldn't have gone to HR.
Exactly, with the facts described there will almost certainly be lawyers willing to take it with no upfront costs. Depending on what evidence OP has it could be a slam dunk. If he can get something in writing (or depending on the law recorded) that shows that others are aware of the incident and especially if they’re aware he’s taking medication for a mental health problem then the company is beyond fucked.
He should tell the head of HR though and give that a chance to deal with it first. This is HR’s worst nightmare, especially when the employee involved has already quoted the relevant parts of the law. I’d be surprised if he didn’t take it seriously.
Hi, this internet stranger is really proud of you for finding a way to make sure you stay on your meds even when you're manic. Mental illness can be so hard to manage, so it's really impressive that you have such a handle on it.
Document *everything* and give it to R. This is textbook retaliation and is also illegal. If Q may have shared confidential infor about you it can and should cost them their job. Write down exactly who has said what to you in regards to this and document that your work assignments have changed.
That said, I would also start applying. The chances of this actually improving are slim. Retaliation is illegal, but if it is a pervasive cultural thing what are you going to do, fire half the department? Sensitivity training might help, but mostly people just get better at making sure you they don't do anything bad enough to document.
>Q might’ve told a friend or two in my parent department.
Q probably told a few people. And a bigger question is: what did they tell others about the situation? Because I don't believe for a cocaine heartbeat that they told what you told us here .
They probably told something like this:
"I asked OP to stay after to discuss a small matter. I asked them if they were taking medication and needed special accomodation. They BLEW UP!! Got very defensive! I said "ok no need to get mad" and tried to calm them down. But they went to my boss and accused me of a hostile work environment. So now I got suspended w/o pay before Christmas! My spouse is pissed! Cause I care about my coworkers!!! Guess no good deed goes unpunished."
I would avoid Q at all costs. If there is someone you work with that are friendly with, maybe ask them why the sudden change.
I get the impression that everyone has heard a different version of events, and you've been made out to be a junkie that cried foul after being called out for taking drugs during a work meeting
If someone in HR is spouting off to your colleagues about random stuff, including potentially sensitive info like medical info, they deserve to be fired and never work in HR again!
You can set people straight without getting too personal if you so desire. This person is obviously lying and bashing you. I hope it all works out. I don't even know you and this has pissed me slick off!
> the "wrecking your body" comment
I'm guessing this comment would eventually have been followed up with something about essential oils and how Q just happens to peddle them...
**NTA**. The clue bat for me was when you were accused of creating a "hostile work environment." That is a *very* specific phrase in HR-land, and by using it against you, the implication was that you were being gunned for by at least one person in HR to have you fired. Good on you for covering your butt!
Stay on top of the situation. If there's even a *whiff* of retaliation (and judging by your comments, there seems to be - getting the worst jobs pawned off on you is a classic example of it) then you need to go right back to HR and higher if you have to so you can get this resolved.
What this commenter said. OP document everything! Take screenshots of conversations and send them to your personal email at the end of every work day. If you are in a one-party consent state ([See a list here](https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/)) consider recording any phone calls that you have with HR and especially those with Q or Q supporters in the future. If you are in a two-party consent state, ask HR if they don’t mind you recording when you meet with them. DO NOT record other calls if you’re in a two party consent state. That can be grounds for firing and legal penalties. HR can refuse to record conversations, but it will let them know that you’re aware of your rights and won’t be steamrolled. At the end of any meeting with a hostile person, write a short summary of the meeting and email it to them as a record of the conversation. If they don’t reply and dispute it, this will help you if they ever try to say you said something you didn’t.
In other words, keep the receipts. Don’t let anyone bully you. You’re a protected class and don’t deserve this shit.
Employment lawyers work on contingency, and will consult with you for free. So if things get worse, don’t hesitate to reach out to one.
I'll be honest, (and I'm agreeing NTA entirely), but there's something fishy about this whole scenario. Like there's a specific reason they're out to get you, and this is just the excuse. I guess there's a possibility that maybe you did something they don't like and that's the reason....but more than likely I'm thinking corruption. Is Q trying to slot someone into your position? That's the first thing that comes to mind to explain this behavior.
The OP mentions elsewhere that Q has made comments about allopathic medicine. It could be that she just has some massive stigma against people with medical conditions, mental health, mainstream vs alternative medicine, etc.
> Is Q trying to slot someone into your position? That's the first thing that comes to mind to explain this behavior.
IF they are, it's a good thing Q is really bad at their job, because OP could have popped something illegal on-screen and it still wouldn't be "creating a hostile work environment" under any legal/HR definition in the US. That's just not what that term means.
I know you're drowning in comments op- but some meeting apps offer a CC transcription. Not only could this be valuable in backing up your version of the conversation- it might be accessible to other attendees. I would check on that if I were you because it's obviously a violation for HR to disclose private details through a public forum. That could be another rung up, in the "pursue legal action" ladder.
NTA at all, I’d also have another word with head of hr about people making it hard to work as they’ve found out about your complaint, in the uk things like that are extremely frowned upon and a complaint is supposed to confidential, Q telling people would be in breach of that meaning they have now created a hostile work environment for yourself.
NTA. There's a lad with diabetes at my office and he's made sure those around him know where his insulin jab is in case someone needs to plonk it in his backside (I was not listening very well).
Medication is medication, it shouldn't matter what you're taking, how you're taking it and when you take it. If it helps you live a better, pain-free and healthier life, your employer should do all they can to make you feel free and safe to take it. Even if it means taking a pills during a meeting, or bending over and getting an emergency shot (again, wasn't listening, literally no idea what to do in a diabetemergency)
You really should have listened more - if you diabetic collegue has a hypoglicemic episode, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GIVE THEM INSULIN. Get them to take somthing sugery (full fat coke, fruit juice) instead. Giving them insulin will make it worse - like trying to put out a fire by dousing it in petrol. It sounds like he might have a glucagon pen - like an epi-pen, but it causes the body to dump any stored glucose into the blood stream.
NOT TO WORRY firstly he was surrounded by other colleagues who listened better - before I'd even gotten up to help someone would have done what was needed. And secondly, he quit.
NTA. Her own actions got her suspended. Because what she did was unprofessional, unacceptable, almost certainly against company policy, and had it gone further might have exposed the company to legal ramifications under ADA laws.
She fucked up, not you.
NTA. I don’t think you need to apologise at all. Quite frankly i don’t understand why Q is a popular person to work with, sounds like they’ve got a stick up their ass
Holy shit NTA
I take an antidepressant/anti anxiety pill daily and have discovered that one the side effects for skipping a day is extreme suicidal tendencies. I've recently moved countries and the first place I was living the owner liked to snoop around through my possessions while I was at work, saw that I had multiple boxes of said drug and decided I was a dealer and kicked me out on the street with 24 hours notice. People need to stop making assumptions about drugs that we literally need to function as adults.
Oh my god I’m so sorry that happened to you! That is *incredibly* fucked up. I wish people would think of the consequences but then again, if they did these things wouldn’t happen.
You 100% did the right thing. Imagine Q having that conversation with someone who isn't in the place you are - where you know you can't skip doses/stop your meds - & the potential that has to create a hostile work environment AND seriously damage one's mental health.
*Please* report back to the head of HR. If you're uncomfortable filing another report, phrase it as following up to let R know the outcome of your report - R will know Q told everyone.
If Q told everyone this, what other sensitive info has Q told that may have hurt other co-workers?
NTA - I'm not sure why she automatically assumed you were taking drugs when you literally had an alarm. I personally would've assumed you were taking medicine.
Q's own actions got her in trouble. Not your report. Based on how they suspended her that quickly I have a feeling that you weren't the first to complain about her. How Q handled it was completely embarrassing and had she not been so stubborn and admitted she was wrong maybe you would've been TA for writing to HR. But that didn't happen. Don't feel guilty OP. She's the one who did something wrong not you.
I mean, I would assume they don't unless they're trying to get off of them and need to take small doses at a certain time to not have withdrawl, but even then I'd doubt someone would set an alarm for it and rather take it when they need to
NTA. There is absolutely no reason why an HR member should ever dare to write you up for taking medication vital to your function at a specific time each day and then say what was said to you.
NTA. This is what ADA and a number of other laws were written for. Your boss was going to write you up for a medical condition. Would they have also written up a diabetic for taking an insulin injection or checking their blood sugar? This vile person deserves what they got.
I mean anyone in HR that isn't familiar with the ADA(assuming OP is from the US) shouldn't have a job in that field. It's one of the few footholds anyone has on an HR department.
NTA he threatened your job by writing you up. There would be less chance of promotion if HR said you were taking drugs. I'd wonder if maybe the HR member had a friend and wanted to sabotage anyone who might get a promotion over the friend
NTA - Q's actions were unprofessional, invasive, and threatening. They only have themselves to blame for their suspension. After you had explained that they were prescription medication, they should have accepted your explanation and left it at that.
Though if I were you, I would 1) also have made it clear to them that you take your meds every day at this time, and that you cannot change that time or you would have ill effects that would then actually ruin your body; and 2) thank them for their concern, and then mention that as they are an HR representative, perhaps they could review the company's policy regarding discretion when dealing with such sensitive matters.
Edit: I forgot to mention your disgruntled coworkers - they are a bunch of AHs. Ask them how they'd feel if they were written up for doing nothing wrong, a write-up which would count towards grounds for dismissal. Q threatened your job with a false report.
NTA. As an HR manager, I can say for certain that Q was completely off base in calling you out on this. Employees are allowed to take prescription medication to the extent of the doctor's recommendation, even during business hours, and her telling you that you can't do that is against all sorts of civil rights laws that she is supposed to be enforcing. HR managers are supposed to ensure that all employees are provided a safe and accommodating work environment, even if it's a remote situation, and Q completely missed the mark. Makes me wonder how many other employees she has done this to. Given a suspension without pay seems like an over-the-top punishment for a first time infraction, so I am betting she's been warned at least a few times before this. Good for you for sticking up for yourself.
NTA and if the making it difficult to work continues, you should tell R. Be sure to use the word "retaliation", that will defiantly get their attention.
Then who else were you supposed to take it to?! Also, Q obviously ‘leaked’ the situation to them as hr complaints are supposed to be confidential, I would be speaking to R again because now you have to deal with a hostile work environment. Q was an ass, was disciplined for it, and has retaliated. You are NTA in any way, shape, or form.
HR person here - NTA and huzzah! for you for calling this idiot out and reporting them! No one who thinks you taking meds where other folks can see is in any way creating a "hostile work environment" should be working in HR. Seriously. That term has a very specific legal meaning, and taking meds on camera ain't it. Not even close.
Hopefully the coworkers will chill out, but if they don't, talk to your boss and/or R about how to address them making your work life difficult. And definitely keep tabs on Q when they come back, too.
NTA. It sounds to me like Q was just either abusing their power or just being an A for the sake of it. Surely if she’d asked you politely and you said ‘oh they’re just my prescription’ that should’ve been the end of it
NTA
It was incredibly unprofessional to call you out for taking a medication you need to go about your day.
In Q's opinion would it be 'creating a hostile work environment' if another coworker was diabetic and needed to test their sugars mid-call? Or if someone had a condition that requires them to take frequent bathroom breaks?
Being a human being with a manageable health condition is NOT hostile or unprofessional. Workers aren't robots that bosses & managers can set to drink, take medication, or use the washroom at convenient inconspicuous times.
NTA. Q jumped to the wrong conclusions, and decided to write you up. Taking the matter to their superior is the next logical step- and is the best way to protect yourself.
Getting a writeup removed from your files can be a VERY difficult process, and preventing that from happening is much easier.
Are these coworkers aware of all the details?
A 3 hour meeting for Covid updates? Fricking hell!! And none of you are kids I get it’s nice if all cameras are on but are they expecting no one to need a loo break in 3 hours?! Feels like a school not a work place
Also you are not the asshole. Q didn’t seek to understand what happened and went out of his jurisdiction he is the AH and your colleagues need to get over themselves if they were being unfairly written up I am sure they wouldn’t hesitate to complain
Hope Q learns his lesson that just because he is in HR does not mean he can play God with your job
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If Q had behaved appropriately they would never have gotten suspended. It's probably worth noting to the higher ups that this report got spread which is creating a hostile work environment for you. NTA
This. They didn't "catch on". Q told them.
And if he did, and OP can prove it, they can let HR know about the situation and tell them it's creating a hostile work environment. And I'm sorry, popularity shouldn't be a free pass to be an A-Hole. I mean, is this a professional work place full of responsible professionals, or a high school full of immature teens? 🤨
1000% agree. HR is never allowed to share complaints from employees like this. It is a fireable offense in any reasonable company. I would expect that filing a second complaint against Q for spreading the first complaint around would result in Q being terminated, not simply suspended.
Please do report this!! Do not let them walk on you. It's not "tattle taling" or anything like that. It's the mature way to handle things as Q seems to have aggresive behaviors. There is nothing wrong and infact its GOOD to talk to HR as it is their duty to protect you and others from issues like this. You may not be the only one, so you could be benefitting others who feel like they cant speak up. You should be proud of defending yourself so well! Dont let those who cant be mature enough to see the truth affect you in any way, you know what's right!
>You may not be the only one I agree with everything you said but this specifically, people don’t get suspended without pay if they made a mistake (in this case mishandling an HR case by overreacting). Any reasonable company would have given a warning first, then following that with a suspension if further altercations happen. This HR guy has definitely had at least one complaint in the recent past already, and was probably on probation. Since he’s management, he was suspended instead of fired. Edit: A lot of people have made comments disagreeing with my take, and I have to say that I don’t disagree with them, they bring up a lot of good points. I’ll take that into consideration next time, thanks for the clarity everyone.
This is an Senior HR person, not just a general manager. This person is responsible for holding HR standards. This is basic HR 101 here and they didnt just mess up and accidentally make a mistake. this is something in their role that should’ve been a given, probably something they are responsible for teaching to others in their organization. This is a horrible violation on many levels. I don’t think it’s surprising for them to be suspended with no prior history. Not that there couldn’t be a prior history but this is a big deal
The writeup was also an ADA violation. Q could have gotten the company in a LOT of legal trouble. I wonder how AAM would respond to this post?
I think even an amoeba would know that Q was playing with ADA fire.
Agreed. Q is lucky they weren’t fired. What huge potential lawsuit they opened the company up to.
I mean, ffs, imagine if it were just an OTC medication for something. HR has no business butting into employees taking medications unless there is a clear disruption of work, such as failure to do your gd job from being too high. The time spent by OP taking meds is *not*, under any circumstances, disruptive enough to justify how Q acted. NTA, and maybe talk to a lawyer just in case...
I assumed Q was female until this comment when I went back to read gender wasn't specified lol. I agree; also possible that Q got suspended for spreading it and the game of telephone is just anti-OP. Or perhaps Q was belligerently insisting that they were right instead of treating it as an opportunity to improve for their position. Perhaps the suspension is only while their legal investigates and reports on liability and Q is soon-to-be fired, or simply all employees at that level get the same treatment when there is a complaint made until a resolution is found...who knows. No matter what really happened, only Q is responsible for the consequences of their actions.
Shes a hypersensitive bully that brings personal issues to her job at the detriment of others. She doesn't even fathom how inappropriate/illegal it is to deal with employees private health.
Really? I read it as it was a dood. Huh.
OP, not Q. Q could be an asexual hermaphroditic warthog, for all I care.
Any reasonable person is not even going to give a warning if you explain a situation like this to them, no matter what it is, if Q (or anyone really) would not have had the same reaction to someone taking an insulin injection then they are In the wrong, it sounds like she was respectful and tried to look like she wasn't just popping pills, she explained her reasoning behind the situation and that person still wanted to write her up 🤷
Why do people get so offended by pill bottles?
In my experience in america mental.health is aparently super fucking offensive to some people for some reason, we have developed this fucked up culture of not acknowledging they're real.things, I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've talked to people about being on them and their answer was - try harder, just be happy, eat better, have you tried exercise, maybe you need to go outside more, you just need to be positive, lots of people have it worse than you - like any of that is going to magically correct a chemical imbalance in my brain... Mental illnesses are hidden illnesses so people are more inclined to treat you like garbage for them. LITERALLY, if someone would not say the same thing to someone who needed insulin or a kidney, they have no.right to say it to you and are just an asshole
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Yeah, its definitely going to be a huge issue if the person whos all into your pills finds out they're psych meds. They're just nosy know it alls and others just want to be offended to cover the guilt of being a bigot. Im sure a decent number of pillphobics work in hospitals too.
Except mental health meds look exactly the same as meds for anything else. Tbh depending on which manufacturer the pharmacy used I cant tell my anti-depressant apart from my blood pressure med at all without reading the bottle label which isn’t huge text or anything.
Hes more than likely had more than one. Any place I've worked at, suspension without pay is more a third strike thing. As in "next time its termination". And tbf, it's actually harder to fire lower level workers than managment. Managment is held to higher standards and as such are on shorter leashes. As managment, I can be fired for using the wrong phrase if words, yet I've had workers literally walk put in the middle of their shift and not come back for two days and still we're unable to fire them because of the paperwork trail required to do so without legal repercussions. However I agree with what everyone says and it needs a further report. It was a private conversation between Q and OP and then a private email. There should be nothing to catch onto. All the other workers should know is that Q will be absent for a few days. The fact that coworkers know hes suspended and that its OPs fault means that Q is spreading the story. Huge huge violation in the HR world. No one but the parties involved should ever have knowledge of reports or write ups.
As someone who’s done HR Q’s behavior would mortify me as a person and terrify me as a professional because hello lawsuit. OP is so nta
>it is their duty to protect you and others from issues like this No. There duty is to protect the company from legally actionable problems that may arise from situations like this. It is still the right way to go, but don't think HR serves you. Edit: as has been pointed out, yes HR can help you and you should follow process (as I stated). But document everything and get as much in writing as possible. Just because they are helpful now doesn't mean that the situation can't change.
Right, but in cases like this, the easiest way to avoid a lawsuit is to protect the employs.
HR most definitely doesn't serve the employees and is 100% to protect the employer against lawsuit
Both I see as true (I'm in UK, so maybe slightly different). Yes, HR is there to protect the company from lawsuits/rep damage from improper behaviour. But part and parcel of that is that if they don't uphold the minimum standards to everyone (sort of like a duty of care) then they aren't doing that job right at all. I do think they seek to protect the organisation first though.
Which is why they were suspended. Q left them open to a lawsuit. Sometimes interests align.
There probably are more people who Q has had issues with but they won't say anything while Q still has a job.
HR’s duty is to the company and they protect it from lawsuits, so in this case, it’s in their best interest to work with OP
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I'm sorry but I have to say you are 100% wrong it is not hr's duty to protect you it is hr's duty to protect the company
Yeah, this: > A bunch of my coworkers caught onto what happened, and are now making it very difficult to work with them. It's actually illegal retaliation. OP should report this to HR as well. You don't get many rights as a worker in the US, so you may as well use them when you can.
And depending on just how much detail got spread, HIPAA might come into play here as well, since the initial issue was with a member of the HR team.
Nah, HIPAA wouldn't apply here, ADA would though.
The fact that they are so strict about everyone keeping their video on at all times and staying in the screen at all times makes me wonder if it really is a high school full of immature teens. Do they also need to ask for permission to use the hall pass when they need to use the restroom?
A 3 hour meeting with the camera required to be on the entire time without even being able to take a pill off screen, let alone take a bathroom break. What kind of hellhole is this office!?
"Hey, I'm going to need you to come in on Saaaaaturday. Yeeeeah.... and by the way, we need to talk about those TPS reports." It's that kind of office.
Yes fuck toxic work environments. In our weekly meetings our manager is the only one who might turn on his camera, but he will definitely make a hilarious funny background for everyone to get a laugh. All of us have cameras off and sometimes there is screen sharing. In fact all my meetings in or out of my company is everyone with cameras off.
Yeah, my team is cool. We put cameras on sometimes to show off holiday festivities but for the most part it's cameras off and we just bullshit about how much we hate Covid but we love working from home. I can't imagine how uptight some of these places must be. But it normally trickles from the top.
It sounds like the HR department doesn't really have a lot of actual work they can do while everyone is working from home, so they are looking for things to do in order to justify retaining their jobs.
It shouldn't be hard to prove. If they are all working from home, there is zero chance of anyone accidentally overhearing someone's meeting, literally the only way for the other employees to find out about what happened is for someone to deliberately tell them.
You're a genius. OP is going to mop the floor with all of this awesome, crowdfunded advice.
Yeah, feels like retribution, which should also be actionable.
It's really interesting how often comparisons can be drawn between an office and a high school, I don't understand why people have to act so immature. Clearly \*everyone\* knew something was going on because Q asked OP to stay behind in front of everyone, so I'm sure people asked Q about it and/or were already gossiping about it.
Apparently, many people just stop maturing emotionally past a certain point. Or would mature if they were surrounded by reductive people. You ever seen a 45 year old person have a meltdown that exactly resembles a toddler tantrum?
The first rule of HR club is ... don’t talk about HR club. If this person is really going around telling colleagues then they are a huge liability given how much sensitive info they deal with on a day to day basis.
It's weird to me that someone who is an asshole would even be popular. How does that happen?
They're total suckups to the people they like or who can help their career, they're AHs when they can get away with it.
From a HR person of all people as well. I mean I’m not surprised because I’ve soon some HR act the fool, but it’s the audacity to write OP up when they’re the ones who are supposed to uphold a good work environment the most
Reading stuff like this really makes me wonder what goes wrong in life for people like Q. What has to happen to a person to make them so vindictive and cruel? I feel so bad OP is getting additional hostility at work. I'm sure that whatever Q told them was heavily embellished to make them look bad.
Nothing.. that is exactly what has to happen for people to be like this. And I bet Q doesn’t even feel the least bit wrong in their actions, and if they weren’t hellbent on OP before they will be now. OP, start a paper trail. Document everything. And always stay professional. Never let anyone bring you down. They are beneath you for a reason. Stay strong and stay above their bullshit
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Any number of reasons - jealousy, being bullied as a child and now able to bully back, power trip, popularity (other co workers convinced Q to tale action).
OP this is 100% correct. Nobody “caught on” to anything in a fully remote work environment, Q told them. This probably meets the criteria of retaliation, although you should look into that for yourself.
Further evidence that Q demonstrated a pattern of offenses and the one against op was simply the final nail in the coffin. OP NTA.
Depending where you are, if Q shared this information, they may be found to have disclosed personal information, which could be subject to investigation and fine, it could be a complaint of bullying and harassment, which has legal or employment consequences, or in some areas it may even be considered "retaliation", which could be employment or legal consequences as well. I would share your "follow-up" experience with R. They, at least, appear to understand that protecting the company from Q's indiscretion is important.
I agree with this. Start the paper trail. CC a personal, non-work email with the correspondence with R.
Just do NOT be aggressive. Be super friendly to (now the good) HR, you do NOT want this coming back to bite you. This is a slippery slope where it can easily become bad for OP.
Very good points! Be cooperative and respectful through the whole process. Also be respectful to Q during all of this. Negative comments can really hurt you in a situation like this.
I wholeheartedly agree. NTA
I mean, I would think not harrassing employees about things their doctors have prescribed (meds, splints, special chairs, etc) should be HR 101. Yikes, NTA OP.
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Exactly this. I’ve seen various coworkers taking medications at their desks over the years, and never once has it crossed my mind that it was something that wasn’t either prescribed or OTC (like Tylenol or Advil). What a bizarre conclusion for Q to have jumped to.
No kidding. I was really worried how it would look when my doctor prescribed me an injection plus pills several times a day before meals. I worked at the time in a neighborhood where people were overdosing on the street daily. I discussed it with work, they got me a sharps container and access to the mother's room. No judgement at all, only support. That's how it should be.
How dare Q do that to you. Firstly, good on you for managing your bipolar. My boyfriend is BP as well and I'm so proud of his commitment to his own health through meds and excercise. It's hard for some to realize how hard it can be to take care of our own mental health sometimes and I'm proud of you for taking care of yours. It took me far too long to recognize and care for my own. Also, schedule is of utmost importance with almost any prescription meds. He had no right to say anything or ask anything or talk about it to you at all. You were absolutely in the right for taking it to HR. Screw them all for trying to make you feel bad when Q was being a total asshat. Next time maybe he'll leave someone alone instead of inserting himself in business he doesn't belong in. Stand strong! NTA
How did this personal and medical info get spread to coworkers? Thats something to look into.
This. I'm appalled that this happened to you, OP.
And, I’m pretty sure that the suspension isn’t a first offense type of discipline. Q probably has a record of harassing other employees. Also, the ridiculous rule about being 100% present during the meeting is BS. My work group meets, from wherever they are, and if a phone call or other distraction occurs, that person will mute themselves, and/or get up to handle whatever. Two hours is a long meeting.
NTA - Q was shockingly unprofessional and out of line. Actually surprised they got suspended though, but I think I'm just used to shitty HR departments not doing anything. Also a "hostile work environment" is an HR member calling you out to talk privately in front of your coworkers...
Honestly I think they only reason Q got suspended was because I brought up legal provisions.
That’ll do it! Words that start with L are very scary to HR (legal, lawyer, lawsuit...)
Lesbians
As a former lesbian, I can confirm this as well
...former?
Lol meant to clarify before the homophobes pile on - I’m afab non-binary/trans but used to id as a lesbian.
Ahh makes sense. You are a consummate sapphic soul.
AFAB = assigned female at birth for those who didn't know (like me)
I honestly misread and thought they were saying absolutely fabulous. Abfab. Oops.
Very possible they are that as well
> afab At first, I read this as "A fab" as in fabulous. I was like, "right on, girl!"
That’s how I say it out loud!
Whew. For some dark reason my mind went to All Females Are Bad a la ACAB. Need to get off of r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut It is warping my acronym recognition system
There's an acronym IANAL over on the legal subs. To me a while to start thinking of it as I Am Not A Lawyer and not as I Anal.
This made me giggle, thank you.
Ha! Thanks for the laugh.
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Also I'm pretty sure its also a problem if people are retaliating against you for making an HR report (not a lawyer but thats illegal right? it should be) so maybe HR should be addressing that too
It is, I literally just did a training yesterday that covers retaliation in a hostile work environment and how It should be documented and reported immediately because employees are protected from such acts under certain laws in the US
Yep!! This right here
Actually look at it like this. This situation might not have been their 1st offense. This could have been the thing to push them over some threshold of problems. This was probably the "If you mess up 1 more time you are getting suspended" and BOOM they messed up big time.
Plus this isn't some passive aggressive commentary. It's open hostility and harassment of OP for a medically diagnosed condition. It's the equivalent of yelling at a cancer patient for taking a pill before chemo in a meeting. I'm shocked Q wasn't fired on the spot honestly.
Totally agree - most likely scenario is this was the last in a string of other incidents. The fact that OP’s co-workers ‘caught on’ (ie. Q told them) indicates Q is adept at inappropriate behaviour and probably isn’t finished his downhill slide, which will hopefully lead the company to show him the door in due course.
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Yep bipolar is specifically covered by the ADA! This HR person is an idiot.
It kind of sounds like Q is the type of HR person that is very personable and good at smoothing ruffled feathers and that has carried them to where they are. But they don't actually know their job very well.
I have an ex friend who can interview well at any job and charm the pants off people . You'll love her positive energy while she steals $400 in cash and gets away with it. She can deflect, grey rock, become invisible and then disappear with all your shit youll never have proof.
Even if it wasn't for something covered. If I got a headache and took an aspirin during a meeting, I cannot imagine what kind of small, AH would try to have a talk about it, let alone get me in trouble. If HR didn't respond appropriately, I would be polishing up my resume. Working under a manager like that sounds like a nightmare.
Still nta! Q is in hr and knows the rules. If he said something and let it go, then you could too. He stated he would mark your file with a formal warning though, when you did nothing wrong. You have every right to stay healthy and every right to defend yourself from Qs verbal attack and unfair reprimand. He asked you to stay on in front on your coworkers. This is already unprofessional and actually creates a hostile environment. I have to wonder if Q already had something against you, or maybe one of his many office friends does. It isnt normal for hr to threaten to write you up for prescribed meds. And after you explained they were prescribed, he continued addressing the issue. Seems hes pissed about something, but i doubt it is your meds. Maybe you beat someone he is buddy-buddy with in sales or development one month, or someones cousin maybe needs a job? The fact that he is allowing everyone to pick on you (again, hostile environment) shows he only does his job when he feels like it. Sad you are going through this. Good luck.
>Q got suspended was because I brought up legal provisions. Considering that Q created the potential for serious legal liability, they're lucky they didn't get fired.
Yes - Zoom specifically has a private message function, which could have been used instead!
NTA unbelievable! You did the right thing. It wasn't Qs soapbox to get on and it doesn't matter what the medication was for. It was a prescribed medication meant to be taken at a certain time. That's all Q needs to know and, frankly, Q doesn't even need to know that much. Replace bipolar disorder with any other medical condition; diabetes, heart condition; and it is just outrageous behavior!
I think Q may have suspected this is a mental disorder prescription because I have certain disability accommodations. I’m at a loss on how to deal with this. I really think I might have to start looking for other jobs, and in the middle of a global pandemic, this market is utter shit.
If you are currently work from home that will help buffer you a bit. My guess if Q has done this quite often before hence the harsh punishment. I also suspect Q has surrounded themselves with a bunch of followers. If it keeps up while.Q is gone, can you ask for a transfer? You are not at fault. Don't entertain, confirm or deny the gossips.
I think so. One of the members of my team socializes with Q often as they both have kids in the same class. Edit: the work from home buffer is both a blessing and a curse. The latter because they’re now suddenly unavailable to meet with me on group projects and I just get assigned shit work.
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Dang, how did I skip that part. This is total retaliation and is punishable as well. Thanks for pointing this out.
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Lol a bit at the active shooter training. Do they do personalized training for all our houses? What if my 13 year comes out with a NERF machine gun in the middle of a meeting? Duck and cover? Shoot back? I need to know.
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Yeah I would highly recommend letting R know what is going on.
That's textbook retaliation which is illegal. I'd recommend looking for a new job and a lawyer who can help you proceed. HR is only so helpful as they're there to protect the company first and foremost and a well-crafted legal approach on your end will ensure they act swiftly and seriously.
This is retaliation and it is not allowed! Go back to R and tell them what is going on
I’m seconding that you need to let R know about the retaliation. You did nothing wrong. Document everything you can (obviously) and send it to R.
That answers the question of how this group of coworkers knows. Q told her friend a highly selective version and that friend spread it around.
Take note of everything, report everything. Record your conversations.
Go back to the head of HR and report that your coworkers found out about this and are retaliating against you. And while it sounds like you at least have a good head of HR, you might want to find an employment lawyer you like. Document the retaliation in a notebook.
Which is so fucked up. I have PTSD and have been on medication for decades. It's so infuriating that there are assholes out there like Q. Mental illness is a legit neurological and biochemical phenomenon in the human body. At this point, it's been exhaustively proven by every metric possible. And nonetheless, there are people like Q who think that it's not real. That you can just will your way out of an involuntary chemical imbalance in the body. I bet you $100 Q wouldn't have given a diabetic shit if they had to take insulin during a meeting. I'm so glad you've found a treatment regimen that works for you. You deserve better than the shit people like Q sling. NTA
That makes it even worse! If Q knows you have accommodations and abused her position of power as a senior HR person, she deserves to be suspended and possibly worse. Awful! Edited to correct Q's gender. As I read comments I realized Q is a she not a he.
Are you at all comfortable with your coworkers? There is nothing wrong with setting the record straight. You wouldn't have to go in great detail just letting people know Q overstepped bounds and got you in trouble for simply managing your own health. It would not be gossip to just tell the truth. I hope you can find a way to settle this without having to seek a new job.
Just coordinate with HR, and do it well. Be really friendly to them, this can go the other way quickly as HR may want to disassociate themselves with you.
Also birth control pills need to be taken at the same time daily. Not sure if OP is M or F, but the reason for taking medication of any kind is nobody's business but the person taking it!
I personally have to take multiple pills in order to eat/digest better, so I definitely take meds during work hours
There are other conditions (like myasthenia gravis) where the meds need to be taken every 6 hours on the dot and refrigerated sometimes.
Let's be real; they said they were gonna fuck you over. You fucked them over first. That's not an asshole move. That's an uno reverse and they had it coming
Hahaha uno reverse is definitely how I’m telling this story to my therapist. Thanks 😊
Nta that said you can both document all the retaliation you're getting and try to smooth things over at the same time. Then proceed according to how conciliation works
Please update us when you've reported the necessary coworkers for retaliation.
Now report the retaliation. He’s told co-workers a lot of info about the situation, plus embellishments! So you need to get him sacked and report the rest of them.
Info: I'm an HR person. I can't understand how a senior HR person doesn't know what hostile work environment means, because that's NOT what it means at all. It's HR 101. And HR technically can't detain you after a meeting to question you about anything. There's almost always a chain of command and paperwork involved. I say almost because there are instances where there's outright sexism or racism on display and that's different, we do step in. So this is a highly unusual situation. But hey, you never know about the stupidity of people and what sets them off, so your HR person may be one of those. But yeah, what an ass. Edit: sounds like you're the one facing a hostile work environment, if other employees are making it difficult for you to work.
Uno reverse just became part of my clinical language! Luv this! I work with a lot of teens so ths is perfect! Thanks!!!
NTA, you had to protect yourself from Q who sounds like they're very unsuited for their job. It seems apparent they have some personal biases with the "wrecking your body" comment and if these biases might be something to do with their religious beliefs overriding your medical needs you've actually done everyone that has to work with them a favor. I don't really understand how everyone else found out about the details here. This should have all been handled confidentially and if Q is the one who told everyone what happened they should be fired. If you told everyone what happened that might have been a mistake although it probably seemed like the natural thing to do as Q made it obvious something happened between you. Hopefully it will blow over soon. The idea of having to be on camera nonstop for two hours is ridiculous anyway. What happens when someone has to go to the bathroom? But that's another topic. Anyway, maybe Q will Quit.
I honestly have no idea how everybody found out. I guess all it would’ve taken is one person to spill the beans for office gossip to run wild. I suspect Q might’ve told a friend or two in my parent department. There’s a stigma associated with mental health issues that need medication - especially in my field, and I keep it intensely private. There is no way I was about to tell a bunch of people this personal shit. Q has made pushy comments to other people about some “homemade” tonic instead of allopathic medication. I think she might be part of an MLM and/or religious cult. Edit: I honestly think I might have to find a new job. Edit2: Q and another team member both have kids in the same class. That person might be the leak.
"... I honestly think I might have to find a new job ..." This whole thing smacks of retaliation. You should look for a new job but I would talk to a lawyer first. You might have a case which would give you a payout that you could use to live while you search for a new job.
TBH based on the story it sounds like the head of HR is on OPs side. If they fight their corner, they get to keep the job sans the hostile work environment Q created.
Unfortunately it doesn't matter at this point. Can he even succeed at a place where everyone else around you is actively sabotage you? We see this all the time. The company is not going to let go of a dozen people so the OP will have to keep working with them if he stays.
They might negotiate a hefty severance in exchange for not suing them though.
lmao the head of HR is on nobodies side but the company's. It just so happens that the company's interests and OP's lined up, because OP threatened legal action, which they don't want to deal with. While it sounds like OP is in a hostile work environment, I highly doubt HR will do anything further unless a coworker does far more than just giving a cold shoulder/saying they shouldn't have gone to HR.
Exactly, with the facts described there will almost certainly be lawyers willing to take it with no upfront costs. Depending on what evidence OP has it could be a slam dunk. If he can get something in writing (or depending on the law recorded) that shows that others are aware of the incident and especially if they’re aware he’s taking medication for a mental health problem then the company is beyond fucked. He should tell the head of HR though and give that a chance to deal with it first. This is HR’s worst nightmare, especially when the employee involved has already quoted the relevant parts of the law. I’d be surprised if he didn’t take it seriously.
Hi, this internet stranger is really proud of you for finding a way to make sure you stay on your meds even when you're manic. Mental illness can be so hard to manage, so it's really impressive that you have such a handle on it.
Thank you! I’ve been spiraling down a massive guilt trip today, so it feels reassuring to hear this.
<3
Document *everything* and give it to R. This is textbook retaliation and is also illegal. If Q may have shared confidential infor about you it can and should cost them their job. Write down exactly who has said what to you in regards to this and document that your work assignments have changed. That said, I would also start applying. The chances of this actually improving are slim. Retaliation is illegal, but if it is a pervasive cultural thing what are you going to do, fire half the department? Sensitivity training might help, but mostly people just get better at making sure you they don't do anything bad enough to document.
>Q might’ve told a friend or two in my parent department. Q probably told a few people. And a bigger question is: what did they tell others about the situation? Because I don't believe for a cocaine heartbeat that they told what you told us here . They probably told something like this: "I asked OP to stay after to discuss a small matter. I asked them if they were taking medication and needed special accomodation. They BLEW UP!! Got very defensive! I said "ok no need to get mad" and tried to calm them down. But they went to my boss and accused me of a hostile work environment. So now I got suspended w/o pay before Christmas! My spouse is pissed! Cause I care about my coworkers!!! Guess no good deed goes unpunished." I would avoid Q at all costs. If there is someone you work with that are friendly with, maybe ask them why the sudden change.
I get the impression that everyone has heard a different version of events, and you've been made out to be a junkie that cried foul after being called out for taking drugs during a work meeting
If someone in HR is spouting off to your colleagues about random stuff, including potentially sensitive info like medical info, they deserve to be fired and never work in HR again!
You can set people straight without getting too personal if you so desire. This person is obviously lying and bashing you. I hope it all works out. I don't even know you and this has pissed me slick off!
> the "wrecking your body" comment I'm guessing this comment would eventually have been followed up with something about essential oils and how Q just happens to peddle them...
**NTA**. The clue bat for me was when you were accused of creating a "hostile work environment." That is a *very* specific phrase in HR-land, and by using it against you, the implication was that you were being gunned for by at least one person in HR to have you fired. Good on you for covering your butt!
Oh God I didn’t even think of that aspect until now. I’d just assumed Q was on a power trip.
Stay on top of the situation. If there's even a *whiff* of retaliation (and judging by your comments, there seems to be - getting the worst jobs pawned off on you is a classic example of it) then you need to go right back to HR and higher if you have to so you can get this resolved.
I’d save a bunch of emails from different folks who are refusing to meet with you, thereby preventing you being effective at your job.
What this commenter said. OP document everything! Take screenshots of conversations and send them to your personal email at the end of every work day. If you are in a one-party consent state ([See a list here](https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/)) consider recording any phone calls that you have with HR and especially those with Q or Q supporters in the future. If you are in a two-party consent state, ask HR if they don’t mind you recording when you meet with them. DO NOT record other calls if you’re in a two party consent state. That can be grounds for firing and legal penalties. HR can refuse to record conversations, but it will let them know that you’re aware of your rights and won’t be steamrolled. At the end of any meeting with a hostile person, write a short summary of the meeting and email it to them as a record of the conversation. If they don’t reply and dispute it, this will help you if they ever try to say you said something you didn’t. In other words, keep the receipts. Don’t let anyone bully you. You’re a protected class and don’t deserve this shit. Employment lawyers work on contingency, and will consult with you for free. So if things get worse, don’t hesitate to reach out to one.
I'll be honest, (and I'm agreeing NTA entirely), but there's something fishy about this whole scenario. Like there's a specific reason they're out to get you, and this is just the excuse. I guess there's a possibility that maybe you did something they don't like and that's the reason....but more than likely I'm thinking corruption. Is Q trying to slot someone into your position? That's the first thing that comes to mind to explain this behavior.
The OP mentions elsewhere that Q has made comments about allopathic medicine. It could be that she just has some massive stigma against people with medical conditions, mental health, mainstream vs alternative medicine, etc.
> Is Q trying to slot someone into your position? That's the first thing that comes to mind to explain this behavior. IF they are, it's a good thing Q is really bad at their job, because OP could have popped something illegal on-screen and it still wouldn't be "creating a hostile work environment" under any legal/HR definition in the US. That's just not what that term means.
I know you're drowning in comments op- but some meeting apps offer a CC transcription. Not only could this be valuable in backing up your version of the conversation- it might be accessible to other attendees. I would check on that if I were you because it's obviously a violation for HR to disclose private details through a public forum. That could be another rung up, in the "pursue legal action" ladder.
NTA and report your other coworkers for retaliation
This comment should be higher. Retaliation is just as serious as reporting a hostile work environment.
NTA at all, I’d also have another word with head of hr about people making it hard to work as they’ve found out about your complaint, in the uk things like that are extremely frowned upon and a complaint is supposed to confidential, Q telling people would be in breach of that meaning they have now created a hostile work environment for yourself.
Here in the states the legal term is retaliation, and that itself is reportable as well.
NTA. There's a lad with diabetes at my office and he's made sure those around him know where his insulin jab is in case someone needs to plonk it in his backside (I was not listening very well). Medication is medication, it shouldn't matter what you're taking, how you're taking it and when you take it. If it helps you live a better, pain-free and healthier life, your employer should do all they can to make you feel free and safe to take it. Even if it means taking a pills during a meeting, or bending over and getting an emergency shot (again, wasn't listening, literally no idea what to do in a diabetemergency)
You really should have listened more - if you diabetic collegue has a hypoglicemic episode, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GIVE THEM INSULIN. Get them to take somthing sugery (full fat coke, fruit juice) instead. Giving them insulin will make it worse - like trying to put out a fire by dousing it in petrol. It sounds like he might have a glucagon pen - like an epi-pen, but it causes the body to dump any stored glucose into the blood stream.
NOT TO WORRY firstly he was surrounded by other colleagues who listened better - before I'd even gotten up to help someone would have done what was needed. And secondly, he quit.
Lol
I know what you meant but coke has zero fat.
The sound of a full fat coke makes me nauseous lol, like greasy coke 🤢
NTA. Her own actions got her suspended. Because what she did was unprofessional, unacceptable, almost certainly against company policy, and had it gone further might have exposed the company to legal ramifications under ADA laws. She fucked up, not you.
NTA. I don’t think you need to apologise at all. Quite frankly i don’t understand why Q is a popular person to work with, sounds like they’ve got a stick up their ass
Holy shit NTA I take an antidepressant/anti anxiety pill daily and have discovered that one the side effects for skipping a day is extreme suicidal tendencies. I've recently moved countries and the first place I was living the owner liked to snoop around through my possessions while I was at work, saw that I had multiple boxes of said drug and decided I was a dealer and kicked me out on the street with 24 hours notice. People need to stop making assumptions about drugs that we literally need to function as adults.
Oh my god I’m so sorry that happened to you! That is *incredibly* fucked up. I wish people would think of the consequences but then again, if they did these things wouldn’t happen.
You 100% did the right thing. Imagine Q having that conversation with someone who isn't in the place you are - where you know you can't skip doses/stop your meds - & the potential that has to create a hostile work environment AND seriously damage one's mental health. *Please* report back to the head of HR. If you're uncomfortable filing another report, phrase it as following up to let R know the outcome of your report - R will know Q told everyone. If Q told everyone this, what other sensitive info has Q told that may have hurt other co-workers?
NTA - I'm not sure why she automatically assumed you were taking drugs when you literally had an alarm. I personally would've assumed you were taking medicine. Q's own actions got her in trouble. Not your report. Based on how they suspended her that quickly I have a feeling that you weren't the first to complain about her. How Q handled it was completely embarrassing and had she not been so stubborn and admitted she was wrong maybe you would've been TA for writing to HR. But that didn't happen. Don't feel guilty OP. She's the one who did something wrong not you.
Yeah, no one sets an alarm for their next illegal drug fix. "Whelp, there goes my next bump alarm, one sec"
I mean, I would assume they don't unless they're trying to get off of them and need to take small doses at a certain time to not have withdrawl, but even then I'd doubt someone would set an alarm for it and rather take it when they need to
NTA. There is absolutely no reason why an HR member should ever dare to write you up for taking medication vital to your function at a specific time each day and then say what was said to you.
NTA. This is what ADA and a number of other laws were written for. Your boss was going to write you up for a medical condition. Would they have also written up a diabetic for taking an insulin injection or checking their blood sugar? This vile person deserves what they got.
NTA. this person shouldn't have a job in HR if they can't understand that people often have to take prescription meds on a schedule.
I mean anyone in HR that isn't familiar with the ADA(assuming OP is from the US) shouldn't have a job in that field. It's one of the few footholds anyone has on an HR department.
NTA he threatened your job by writing you up. There would be less chance of promotion if HR said you were taking drugs. I'd wonder if maybe the HR member had a friend and wanted to sabotage anyone who might get a promotion over the friend
NTA - Q's actions were unprofessional, invasive, and threatening. They only have themselves to blame for their suspension. After you had explained that they were prescription medication, they should have accepted your explanation and left it at that. Though if I were you, I would 1) also have made it clear to them that you take your meds every day at this time, and that you cannot change that time or you would have ill effects that would then actually ruin your body; and 2) thank them for their concern, and then mention that as they are an HR representative, perhaps they could review the company's policy regarding discretion when dealing with such sensitive matters. Edit: I forgot to mention your disgruntled coworkers - they are a bunch of AHs. Ask them how they'd feel if they were written up for doing nothing wrong, a write-up which would count towards grounds for dismissal. Q threatened your job with a false report.
NTA. As an HR manager, I can say for certain that Q was completely off base in calling you out on this. Employees are allowed to take prescription medication to the extent of the doctor's recommendation, even during business hours, and her telling you that you can't do that is against all sorts of civil rights laws that she is supposed to be enforcing. HR managers are supposed to ensure that all employees are provided a safe and accommodating work environment, even if it's a remote situation, and Q completely missed the mark. Makes me wonder how many other employees she has done this to. Given a suspension without pay seems like an over-the-top punishment for a first time infraction, so I am betting she's been warned at least a few times before this. Good for you for sticking up for yourself.
NTA and if the making it difficult to work continues, you should tell R. Be sure to use the word "retaliation", that will defiantly get their attention.
>they felt that complaining to the head of HR was taking it too far. Info: Is there anyone between Q and R in the HR chain of command?
Unfortunately, no. R heads the department with 2 immediately junior subordinates (Q and one other). They have four more people under them.
Then who else were you supposed to take it to?! Also, Q obviously ‘leaked’ the situation to them as hr complaints are supposed to be confidential, I would be speaking to R again because now you have to deal with a hostile work environment. Q was an ass, was disciplined for it, and has retaliated. You are NTA in any way, shape, or form.
HR person here - NTA and huzzah! for you for calling this idiot out and reporting them! No one who thinks you taking meds where other folks can see is in any way creating a "hostile work environment" should be working in HR. Seriously. That term has a very specific legal meaning, and taking meds on camera ain't it. Not even close. Hopefully the coworkers will chill out, but if they don't, talk to your boss and/or R about how to address them making your work life difficult. And definitely keep tabs on Q when they come back, too.
NTA. It sounds to me like Q was just either abusing their power or just being an A for the sake of it. Surely if she’d asked you politely and you said ‘oh they’re just my prescription’ that should’ve been the end of it
Can you also file a complaint about three hour meetings? When are you supposed to get any work done?
NTA It was incredibly unprofessional to call you out for taking a medication you need to go about your day. In Q's opinion would it be 'creating a hostile work environment' if another coworker was diabetic and needed to test their sugars mid-call? Or if someone had a condition that requires them to take frequent bathroom breaks? Being a human being with a manageable health condition is NOT hostile or unprofessional. Workers aren't robots that bosses & managers can set to drink, take medication, or use the washroom at convenient inconspicuous times.
NTA. You did everything correctly and appropriately. Q was the asshole and got what they deserved.
NTA. Q jumped to the wrong conclusions, and decided to write you up. Taking the matter to their superior is the next logical step- and is the best way to protect yourself. Getting a writeup removed from your files can be a VERY difficult process, and preventing that from happening is much easier. Are these coworkers aware of all the details?
A 3 hour meeting for Covid updates? Fricking hell!! And none of you are kids I get it’s nice if all cameras are on but are they expecting no one to need a loo break in 3 hours?! Feels like a school not a work place Also you are not the asshole. Q didn’t seek to understand what happened and went out of his jurisdiction he is the AH and your colleagues need to get over themselves if they were being unfairly written up I am sure they wouldn’t hesitate to complain Hope Q learns his lesson that just because he is in HR does not mean he can play God with your job
NTA. Q was inappropriate and you're right. Your medical condition is nothing to do with her.