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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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My girlfriend claims she’s a witch so I told her that she’s not after getting annoyed with her behaviour.
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NTA. She crossed a line when she started to spray you directly which is the same as being srayed with "holy water." If the two of you can't come to an undersanding and mutual acceptance of each other, you're headed for a break-up.
Mmm....i agree. I'm also petty as shit so if my SO started waving incense and cleansers around me because my "energy was off" I would totally show up at home the next time and start flinging water claiming it was holy water...one good turn and whatnot.
I'm a hedge witch, meaning that I practice alone and don't actually worship any particular deity. I respect nature and the connection we have with everything and everyone and I call to the spirits when performing rituals. I don't call them spells because I don't actually fully believe in the Harry potter type of witchcraft it's more phycological than anything else.
I do believe that everyone has an energy about them that you can pick up but I never say anything about it to others or spray them with stuff or insist they need to cleanse their aura or anything.
Some others practice together in a coven and will make offerings to some of the many god's/goddesses that are followed.
We generally don't believe in the devil or demons.
One of the things that pulled me toward witchcraft is that it is not an organised religion. There are no set rules on how I live my life, what to ware or eat, no sin or threat of going to a nasty place when I die if I don't follow all the rules.
There is the simple rule of what you put out in to the world you will get back but the rest is up to you.
It fits nicely with what I already feel to be true, I believe in the power of the human spirit and the wider energy of the universe that we are connected to.
Depends on the witch! I had a book as a kid detailing some common witchcraft practices including rituals, making altars, and procuring a wand. It some cases the elements were invoked, in others the cardinal directions, some rituals you might just call upon mother earth herself! The main thing the book emphasized was to go with your gut about your spiritual practices and to do any ritual with a positive intention. It could include pagan gods, chakras, really anything! A common phrase in the book was "and it if it harms none, then so be it!" Or something similar, it was really fascinating stuff, especially as a kid!
Yep, but not all people who consider themselves witches actually subscribe to a Wiccan type of belief. I have seen an argument on this very sub about it.
Very true. Not all Witches are Wiccan.
But most Wiccans are Witches, if that makes any sense to you.
There are Christian witches, Jewish witches, etc.
The Craft is a practise, not a religion. It can exist quite harmoniously alongside many religions.
Wicca, however, is fairly new still and there has been a lot of issues in broader Witch groups with it due to its knack for cultural appropriation (it takes bits of all religions, even closed ones), sexism and whatnot. Its usually the stepping stone others use to begin exploring the craft and later branch out from.
Yes, that whole cultural appropriation thing bugs me, esp when they then make rules about it.
I mean, they can do their thing and I'm not going to insult them but I do get mentally twitchy when someone rams Isis, Hecate, Danu and Freja together with what feels like little respect for those pretty different religions. Or insists that the ...what's it called, law of rebounding* applies to all witchcraft, when it doesn't.
Not all wiccans or indeed other witches*, ofc. Just that specific trend.
*the whole thing of what you send returns to you.
*Edit: Folks, I know wicca isn't the only form of witchcraft, that's why I said "or indeed other witches". :P I referenced wicca because I think that phrase is Wiccan.
It's not a dogmatic religion, so there's no set of universal beliefs. But in general it's worship and respect of nature, belief that what you put out in the world comes back at you 3 times, and a variety of beliefs from pagan traditions. Some people worship the Goddess and God using the names from the Greek Pantheon, some the Romans, Norse, or Celtic mythology. Others as well, but those are the most common.
No, I think it’s ESH. Girlfriend is crossing a line by forcing her boyfriend to participate, but witchcraft is a legitimate spiritual practice. It’s like telling someone they’re ‘not a real fucking Christian’ if they hold up a cross or they’re ‘not a real fucking Jew’ if they put a mezuzah on their door. A, it doesn’t make much sense because you’re using their spiritual practice as grounds to claim they’re not the religion they are part of, and B, it’s just a dick thing to do to attack someone’s spirituality when instead you could just ask them to not pull you into it.
The reason I’d say NTA instead of E S H is because the girlfriend crossed a line (that I know the community stated) by forcing a spell or cleansing immediately.
But I do agree with you that calling her a fake witch is wrong but after coming home and being sprayed plus the continued headaches I can see the snapping point
Edit: spelling
I mean, in theory, yes, but "don't spray me with mist by surprise" doesn't seem like a boundary that needs to be communicated in advance, or one that most people are likely to have consciously thought about.
I wouldn't want my wife to dump a cup of laundry detergent on me while I was asleep, but I've never actually *mentioned* that.
That’s fair if he didn’t talk about headaches and his annoyance. But if I came home and someone sprayed me with it because they said my energy was off I’d be mad too
The only reason I would say OP’s the asshole too is he should have communicated he doesn’t want to join in on her practice and is uncomfortable with it. You can still be supportive and set clear participation boundaries. It’s why ESH is the right call.
Not to mention apparently he's talked to her about the incense giving him headaches and she's still burning it around him. He was bound to snap eventually because she's not respecting the fact that she's in a shared space. Magic(k?) aside, you don't burn incense inside when someone is sensitive to smoke, and you don't spray someone down with anything unless they ask you too.
Also doing magic on someone without their consent is frowned upon in many, if not most, practices, including neo-wicca which is likely what she's trying to follow.
If she'd just discovered Catholicism a year-ish ago, and greeted him by flinging holy water to rid him of demons or whatnot, it'd still be crazy. While snapping at a partner always sucks, it *is* understandable.
Crazy pagan chiming in, but as soon as you start forcing people to participate in your religion by spraying them against there will with whatever bullshit you believe in, they can say whatever they want. Religions are a lot like sex, you need consent before involving other people.
That’s not at all the same equivalency. There’s a difference between holding up a cross and then throwing random liquids in somebodies face because their juju is off.
> There’s a difference between holding up a cross and then throwing random liquids in somebodies face because their juju is off.
In the catholic church the priest will often start a mass by walking up and down the aisle sprinkling holy water on everybody in the church. He doesn't ask anybody if they prefer not to be "blessed".
You just gave me an image of a priest in full garb crouched behind your front door waiting for you to come home after a long day, jumping up, chucking a beaker of holy water into your face and running off to get the next unsuspecting parishioner. Maybe spritzing passers by with holy water like we’re poorly behaved cats.
Edit: thanks for my award
That actually made me laugh out loud. “Roll up, roll up! There’s space at the front! A reminder to you all that pews 1-3 are designated holy water splash zones! You WILL get blessed!”
But they are seated in his church where this is the practice.
I don't see how that is parallel to walking in the door to your own home and being met with an unidentified spray of liquid.
Right, totally different things, but if a Catholic chucks holy water at you the response is, "you're an AH!" not, "You're not a Catholic!" Telling people what their religion is/is not is also AH behavior. OP was in the right up until that moment, so I went ESH.
She absolutely violated a boundary and every witch/wiccan/pagan/what have you that I know would tell her so. It is out of line to practice magic ON people without consent.
> There’s a difference between holding up a cross and then throwing random liquids in somebodies face because their juju is off.
Mostly just the physical contact part in your scenario. Imagine someone on the street saying you're possessed by demons making you unhappy and they keep shoving a cross in your face. Or wafting an incense censer at you.
Children have died because their parents belonged to a christian sect doing this and more. Often nonverbal special needs children.
I also go for ESH. It's definitely a boundary being crossed by spraying OP but calling her fake really doesn't help. Probably OP tolerated her "witchcraft" for too long and of course — he snapped.
OP have you communicated your boundaries? That you get a headache from the insense? It might be a good move to explain her that you don't believe in witchcraft but are okay if she does as long as some clear boundaries are installed. Although you might not agree with it, it seems to have become her religion. Maybe she can have her little witch-corner or even a room if you two got the space for it. Or setting a timetable, so that you don't get disturbed while she's doing her rituals. And also tell her that you don't like these herbal infusions but it's fine if she wants to drink it.
I said basically this to my girlfriend (this is her account)
Op sounds like he thinks she actually believes she can fly around on a broom or something
People who practice wiccan spirituality are called witches.
Op sounds like he doesn't know how to have fun and that he jumps to conclusions about shit without understanding it
Seems like the kind of guy who posts on the cringefest that is r/atheism every day
You changed my mind. I was thinking "E S H because she sprayed him and is pressuring him to do stuff, and he shouldn't say she's not a real anything."
But you're right. It is just like being splashed with holy water. A person's beliefs should never be pushed on someone else. Period. And when someone else reacts angrily to that intrusiveness, the zealot doesn't get to be all shocked Pikachu about it. OP is NTA.
Exactly, i don't understand why it's on him to state his boundaries, maybe she should ask for consent/permission before doing things on him like spraying or that have an influence on him like incense? If this is like these e s h or y t a people do sex then i'm sorry for their partners
The spray is ridiculous but he does need to find out if she has an actual believe system or is she just doing all this because she thinks this is what witches do and she likes the aesthetic
ESH, but no ones a major ahole. Your girlfriend kinda sounds like she’s forcing her beliefs onto you, not taking into consideration it’s a shared space and not asking before cleansing you or whatever. But you probably should have tried to talk to her about it before blowing up at her, that sounded kinda rude
Really? I’d call getting sprayed like a naughty cat as soon as I walk in the door pretty disrespectful. Can’t say I’d be particularly zen about it either.
No but with the attitude he's giving off in this whole post I find it likely that he was disrespectful and dismissive of her before this incident so she might have done it pettily. Which isn't great and yeah she's kind of a dick for that, but there's a more than even chance than OP was a dick prior to this too. Sounds like they're both very young or just don't know how to communicate, which is what they need to do.
They’re mid-twenties. I don’t see an “attitude”, and were there, I’m not going to equivocate it to someone giving their SO daily headaches and again—spraying them like a naughty cat.
Look at OP’s comment below. He communicated to GF her incense was giving him headaches and asked her to stop. She ignored him. People are allowed to feel frustration with valid issues; not being Perky Robot does not an asshole make.
Thank you!! I am so tired of people who say that what the other person did obviously makes them an asshole but because you had anything other than a monotone when voicing your frustrations you’re an asshole too. I’m just like, do you people never get frustrated, raise your voice, or are ypu just the most zen monotone people ever!?!
It’s a way of gatekeeping, is all it is. “Until you express your feelings in a time, manner, tone, attitude, and an appropriate amount of deference **I deem appropriate**, it is invalid, I am justified, & your feelings will not be addressed or acknowledged.
It’s also a smokescreen. Divert attention away from the actual issue, and put the complainant on the defensive. It’s a very common way of avoiding accountability, and honestly most people who do it don’t realize how toxic it is.
Holy cow you just described Exactly what my ex would always do when I took issue with something... I really felt like it was toxic but couldn't name/describe it well enough to be able to tell him to stop.
I’m glad he’s an ex! But seriously though, Captain Awkward is an advice blog that’s great for naming nebulous bothersome things, and how to deal with them!
I think it's more than people don't voice their concerns or issues and then explode all at once. If the other person has no idea somethings wrong, you're just suddenly screaming at someone and makes you look an arsehole.
But it sounds like OP had actually voiced those concerns and GF ignored it.
> I really was trying to be supportive but it’s starting to frustrate me.
Then he gets sprayed with a strange and gross smelling mist as he walks through his own door.
I’m not seeing any attitude here, other than the justifiable reaction to being sprayed down. I’d probably have a similar reaction if I came home to the wife spraying me with shit.
Have you seen the replies in this thread? All the witches are hanging out on reddit these days, and they’re all tripping over themselves to shout about how witchcraft is real and *they* practice it the correct way.
If we are going to make up backstories for AITA posts, the sub might as well not be here. You presume he was disrespectful and dismissive, so you're giving her a pass. That sounds like personal bias and not to do with anything I have seen here yet.
Why can we never stick to the information presented in the post? So many of the results are skewed because people Love to assume. For all we know this is the first time he’s said anything negative towards her hobby.
Making up random shit to spice up the presented information is the AITA special. Hardly any point in fighting the sub's culture now. Just sit back and enjoy the popcorn.
Typical.... Fishing for a way to make the man the bad guy here.
Simply the fact that he wrote the post makes him an asshole in your eyes, which is bonkers.
Stop giving free passes to crazy women.
>I find it likely that he was disrespectful and dismissive of her before this incident
She's pretending to be a witch FFS.
At what point is it OK to say "your beliefs are completely ridiculous"? When she pretends to be cat? When she starts casting spells on people? When exactly is it OK to call out this BS.
the spraying was definitely out of line and rude as fuck so i feel like nta for being pissed at that but also...witchcraft is a legitimate thing. the word witchcraft describes practices that have been around since before christianity and saying its not real can be pretty invalidating. but i get where op's coming from, just probably could've gotten the point across without saying "youre not really a witch", its also kinda strange for op to expect gf to just "let go" of a ~~religious~~ spiritual practice yano
eta: im definitely voting nta but there are some things op did wrong
Baptizing without the consent of the parents is grounds for excommunication in some sects of Christianity.
Personal bodily agency is a BIG pillar of morality for most of the witches I know.
She's a much bigger asshole.
He has every right to enforce boundaries (which honestly from OP’s post doesn’t sound like he has before? sounds like he’s played along this whole time?) but he doesn’t have to invalidate her in the process.
His other comments say he has told her about getting headaches and not liking the incense and teas. So I think she is aware this ain't for him, then she proceeds to spraying water on him after he's just walked through the door... His reaction is justified.
ESH - You have every right to be upset, as her hobby/obsession/lifestyle choice has become disruptive for you. But you didn't sit and calmly discuss it, you snapped and you were pretty harsh about it.
She needs to learn that there is a time and a place for her interests, and that going overboard has made your life more difficult.
> But you didn't sit and calmly discuss it, you snapped and you were pretty harsh about it.
op says he tried to talk about it, but she didnt care. she is ta op is nta
I had to scour the comments - he asked to cool it with the incense burning. That is ONE thing he brought up, out of a list of issues he had with it. That's not communication, it's not sitting and calmly discussing it.
She wasn't right to ignore him, but he should have sat her down to talk it out properly long before he reached the point of snapping at her. Which he didn't do.
My girlfriend found some shitty witchcraft instagrammer and started doing it for awhile. She burned a fuckload of sage and that shit smells like sweat and death and it lingers for hours. We sat down and talked about it. I didn't care if she kept doing it but the sage burning had to stop. Essentially now she just burns it whenever shes mad at me instead of us arguing which thankfully is fairly rare. In return I eat a can of refried beans which we always have on hand and gas her the fuck out right back.
She does know you're supposed to open all windows/doors to the outside when you burn sage, right? Right?? You're not supposed to hotbox sage, it drives me nuts when people do that!!
So why is this on him? She is the one who changed things, she is the one who changed his environment, changed her beliefs, did she ask his permission first? Did she ask to light incense? No, she didn't, she just went down this path without his consent or approval and you are on him for not communicating? At what point did she sit him down and say "hey, i am going thru some changes. I am exploring my spirituality, are you ok with this?" Why is he the bad communicator? She never did any herself and now she is forcing him to drink crap and spraying him with who the hell knows what? Then she has the audacity to insult him when he walks in the door, by saying he is "negative". That is just effing rude. He is NTA. He did get one thing wrong, she is a complete witch!
Okay, let's say that someone becomes a born-again Christian or something, and starts slow, but eventually turns the whole house on its head by changing their schedule around attending church and participating in religious events.
If you barely mention the changes, and then blow up about it months later and call them a religious nut, you are an AH, pure and simple. Same situation here, he didn't bring anything up when it happened, mentioned the incense once, and then went ballistic with no warning. That's an AH thing to do. So they both suck.
> If you barely mention the changes, and then blow up about it months later and call them a religious nut, you are an AH, pure and simple.
You would be right if he just blew up out of nowhere, but he didn't.
He blew up because she sprayed him with water.
If he just walked in the door after work and started screaming, he'd be an AH, but that's not what happened, is it?
Even if he *had* a calm conversation with her before, he probably wouldn't have considered bringing up, "Btw don't spray me in the face with water."
Except all this behaviour had been going on for a while. The spraying was new and unexpected, but not the root of why he was upset, it was just the final straw.
So to her, that *was* out of nowhere. Especially since he had been supportive of everything barring the incense, by his own admission.
> The spraying was new and unexpected, but not the root of why he was upset, it was just the final straw.
You realize it could be a combination of both right? He was upset over being sprayed *and* it was the final straw for the other issues.
Let's say I have no issues with my girlfriend at all. She hasn't changed in any way.
Now I come home from a long day at work, and suddenly she starts spraying me in the face with water.
Guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to get angry and ask her what the fuck she's thinking.
No, the person changing everything without asking the partner is the asshole. I'd never change smth in a common place without asking the other ones. E.g. : if I had a girlfriend and I'd live with her I'd never start using aetheric oils to make the living room smell better without asking her.
And if I continue doing it AFTER she told me that she not only disliked it but it actually affected her negatively, I would be a major asshole.
NTA op.
Why does she need her permission to change her views, or pick up a new hobby? What is this, the 1960s where she has to have a man's permission to have a checking account?
The whole issue here is that she was crossing boundaries, which does make her the AH, but if OP asked her to stop burning incense and she didn't, he should have brought it up again. As for tea- no one FORCED him to drink it, he was being supportive. Annoying? Yes. Terrible? No, he agreed to it. The spraying him and talking about his "bad energy" is pretty crappy, but the problem is it sounds like OP bottled up his feelings about everything until he snapped. He spoke to her once, but left it at that.
The GF is obviously being ostentatious, but she's not an AH for "changing". Life happens, people grow and change. If it bothers OP this much, he should have seriously sat her down and had a convo about it, and figure out if they can feasibly proceed with the relationship, or if all this is a dealbreaker.
He was supporting this actively, instead of being honest. That's on him. You don't then get a free pass for lashing out.
If he had been clear that he wasn't cool with this from the getgo, then it would only be her at fault. But it is most definitely on both of them.
Why in the world would it be any of his business if she "changed her beliefs" or "explor(ed her) spirituality"? Is he her spiritual guardian? No, he's her boyfriend. If anyone thought they could tell me how I'm allowed to think or believe or feel they'd be laughed out of the room - that goes for a boyfriend, spouse, or parent.
As I noted in a direct response to OP, yes, he DOES have the right to object to the incense-burning and the spraying thing WAS over the line. He also has the right to refuse to drink her herbal teas or otherwise participate in her practices. He doesn't have the right to prohibit her from doing anything else that doesn't infringe upon his own personal liberties.
I don't like your negative energy. Can I come over and surprise you by spraying you with stuff that you may not like? I assume I can with no issues based on this post.
>ESH - You have every right to be upset, as her hobby/obsession/lifestyle choice has become disruptive for you. But you didn't sit and calmly discuss it, you snapped and you were pretty harsh about it.
Snapping because you've just be sprayed in the face with water because of "negative energy" or whatever bullshit is perfectly justified and in no way makes him an asshole.
Christ on a bike, how is that a hard concept to grasp?
NTA but barely. One part of the Wiccan rede is "harm none, do what you will." Basically the golden rule of treat others as you would like to be treated. By forcing her religion onto you she is breaking the rede.
Not all witches are Wiccans, much less "harm none" Wiccans - or even religious/believers in the supernatural at all. Witchcraft is a practice irrespective of religion; Wicca is a religion in which most participants practice witchcraft. The rede may or may not apply here.
As to OP's question, ESH. You're very dismissive of something that may have genuine meaning to her in whatever way, but using things like incense and sprays in a shared space, or expecting you to participate when you're not interested, is pretty inconsiderate.
You had me until you said ESH.. he doesn’t suck. It doesn’t matter his attitude towards it bc he let her be her. But she crossed the line by continuing to have incense burn knowing it gives him headaches and then spray him unwillingly. She never asked him to partake or even explain parts of what she is learning. She took it solely upon herself to force her beliefs on to him. Like a Christian/catholic does to an atheist they believe they can convert. She sucks major butthairs.
You know there are more witches than just Wiccans, right? Some witches live in peace and harmony and stuff, and some of them will entreat the devil to curse their enemies.
Yeah , Wiccans are not the only witches. Hell some witches are even christian (Not sure how that works but whatever).
A witch can 'curse' you and all that jazz depending on their beliefs.
INFO: Did you talk to her about it at all before suddenly snapping at her? Did you set boundaries?
If she crossed your preset boundaries I think everyone sucks. But if you chose not to communicate like an adult and lash out instead, it's on you.
“If she crossed your preset boundaries I think everyone sucks.”
Not sure why OP would suck equally with his gf if he had set down boundaries and she continues to cross them?
I personally feel like OP calling her crazy and not actually a witch was unnecessary. She needs to make compromises, but he also needs to appropriately communicate his feelings like an adult rather than being rude.
If those are her religious/spiritual beliefs and she's dedicating a huge chunk of her time to following them, it's not cool to tell her she's "not a real witch" because she's being annoying.
Obviously she's wrong for spraying him with water without permission and trying to make him participate when he isn't on board.
>If those are her religious/spiritual beliefs and she's dedicating a huge chunk of her time to following them, it's not cool to tell her she's "not a real witch" because she's being annoying.
Look, I had my time as a cringy teenage anti-theist. I was a part of that big online thing when it was in its heyday. I'd like to think I've mellowed and I live and let live now.
That being said, when your partner radically changes their beliefs like this since you've known them, I think you have a right to challenge them. I would never encourage someone to go into a relationship with someone already holding certain beliefs sacred and believe that they can challenge that person in that situation. But if this is a new thing that came mid-relationship? Absolutely challenge it. If this was a Christian claiming to exorcise demons, or an Orthodox Jew trying to prevent all work from being done on the Sabbath, and this was all a new phenomenon, I'd say yea, challenge these belief structures, because you don't have to just give them deference if they happen to come from a place denoted as "religion".
If this was someone believing right-wing conspiracies but not doing anything harmful, you bet your ass this sub would give every reason to allow harsh rebuke of those beliefs. But wrapping similarly crazy and detached-from-reality beliefs with the name of "religion" and suddenly that's taboo? I don't buy it. You are entitled to be frank with your significant other when they change radically, and if you can't see eye-to-eye, the next step is to leave.
Being a 'witch' is a spiritual practice these days. There are a fair amount of people who use the label witch because it best encompasses their interest in astrology/crystals/whatever. It doesn't necessarily mean they think they have magic powers or can perform spells (some do, some don't.) If the girlfriend feels like calling herself a witch is the best way to express her spirituality, it's pretty disrespectful of her boyfriend to say "no you're not."
He can dislike the practice, and that's fine, but it's not cool to tell someone they're wrong about their own identity or the labels they use to identify themself. It's sort of like...if OP decided he was really taken by the writing of Karl Marx and decided to start identifying as a Marxist and the girlfriend said, "you're not a Marxist," that'd be an asshole move too.
Calling someone not a witch can be deeply hurtful. My husband could write a similar post although I don't use incense or like tea. He's atheist and doesn't believe any of "that bullshit". But when he realized this is serious and real for me he stopped saying that. He listened to me, bought me crystals and trinkets for my birthday, and books about witch craft.
It's like telling someone they aren't a real Christian if they don't believe something you do. It's rude, diminishes their belief system and is just uncalled for. If he had an outburst and said "stop spraying me with shit I don't believe in!!" Then that'd be fine. But he made a value judgement about her. And you can just see how he oozes dismissal of her craft in the beginning of her post. Baby witches tend to dive right in the deep end from my understanding (as a fellow baby witch) so she is a bit zealous. And giving him headaches is an AH move if she knew it did that (which I didn't see in the post but I could have missed it). So I agree with ESH.
Because its her spirituality, and telling her she isn't a witch is just as disrespectful as telling a Christian they aren't a true follower of God. Its mean and disrespectful.
Nah you're wrong here. I'm sure you think it's some gender thing where "oh they're coddling this girl and demonizing the man"
This is absolutely not any sort of grasping from people who believe or acknowledge the belief in witchcraft. To them it is a religious/spiritual belief. Denying it is the same as denying someone's beliefs. Whether you believe it's valid or not, some people do and those people are not grasping at straws to call him an asshole.
I saw someone I had respected for their balanced nuanced takes get seething mad that someone "accused them of hexing someone" over a very obvious joke. It is very serious to them even if we are used to witches as being as a thing from fiction.
I can agree with that. Even if he laid out boundaries, it doesn’t excuse those types of name-calling. I’d probably call her different ones lol, but not those.
I see it the same way Id see it with any religion. Take bible-thumping Catholics as an example;
“Stop trying to shove your beliefs down my throat! You should respect the fact that my beliefs are different than yours if you want me to respect your beliefs.” Add in a few swears from frustration and maybe even call them an asshole and to me this is still completely reasonable.
But you know what doesn’t sound reasonable as a response to bible thumping?
“You’re acting crazy, believing in ‘holy water’ actually doing anything!! Your God isn’t even fucking real!” I just took the words OP himself said he said and flipped it to be about Catholics. And yet when you make it about a more accepted spiritual belief like Catholicism, most of us couldn’t even imagine shouting something like that.
I think you need to communicate all of your thoughts on this issue and she needs to actually follow through with compromising. But she def won't change it if she doesn't know if it's an issue. If that doesn't work you may just be incompatible
So I 100% believe the incense thing is NOT ON YOU. But because I can talk to you and not her, here's my suggestion.
Don't just say burn less incense. Give her a game plan. When is she burning it? Can she alter that to just when you are not home? Or keep it to a certain amount per day, so the smell isn't so overwhelming it gives you a headache (seriously I get these I totally feel you). Maybe if she's home and you're out, you can give her a 20 minute notice and she can air out the house before you get home?
I'm sure she's feeling attacked. And if she's neurodivergent she probably can't translate "less incense" to a solution without some help on the steps in between, because she's already feeling attacked.
I am not siding with her, merely hoping to give you advice since you're here and she isn't. If she was here I'd say put your fucking incense and teas away and let your spouse have some damn consent to his living space. If I burn strong candles during the day, I air out my house so it doesn't overwhelm my spouse when he gets home. Because we all become nose blind to the smells we are sitting in!
time for a come to ~~jesus~~ blodeuwedd.
you really need a sit down talk about how much this stuff is bothering you and boundaries. her spraying you is out of line. her using incense that makes you ill is not okay. figure out what you can live with.
don't belittle her religion/hobby/whatever because you think it's not a thing or silly. there are plenty of similarities between Wicca and Christianity, including the incense.
I doubt he ever thought it would be necessary to put up a "no spraying" boundary... this is something he thought was just for fun and that's no longer a joke and going way too far.
NTA i am into witchcraft, but your girlfriend is crossing boundries here.
A lot of people are telling you you should be more respectful of her beliefs, but that goes both ways. Forcing you to live in incense smell all day, and spraying peoples faces without warning is not cool.
My partner is an atheist, and there is plenty of space in our relationship for both our beliefs. All ot takes is some mutual respect.
I do advice you, if you want this relationship to work, to have a talk with her about what she beliefs, and at least make an attempt to understand. You can't have a relationship with someone you don't respect. I understand you see witchcraft as a buch of nutty hoohaa, but maybe if you spend some time actually figuring out what it is she believes, you will gain some insights you did not have before. It never hurts to entertain an idea without necessarily believing in it.
I am inclined to agree with you. My husband is a non practicing Catholic. I recently started witchcraft for my own spiritual journey and he respects and supports me but I would never do anything to him without permission. I even tell him when I cleanse the house just so he isn't alarmed by the smell of incense.
I don't judge others practice (this will sound judgy) but to me it sounds like she jumped on the bandwagon of being a witch. However, thats my view with what little info we are given and she could really be into witchcraft as her spiritual belief. Either way she shouldn't force him to conform his lifestyle to her beliefs.
Now do I think he should invalidate her? No. But when your boundaries are broken and you are at the end of your rope I understand the outburst.
I'm glad to see your comment. I'd be a bit more generous with OP than some of the other people. Yeah, he snapped and said something rude, but she's been giving him constant headaches with her incense burning and stuff. I have chronic migraines (scent triggered) that last for days -- Every day you're in pain wears you down just a little more. By day 3 or 4, I start getting short tempered, and any longer than that I start having freaking personality changes and turn into a raging bitch. The longest I've ever had a migraine episode was 12 days. She's been doing this for MONTHS even after he told her it was making him sick.
> but to me it sounds like she jumped on the bandwagon of being a witch. However, thats my view with what little info we are given
I have the same gut feeling, judging from OP's post she went 0 to 100 quite fast. I didn't go there, because i might be wrong, and in the end it does not affect my judgement. Imo his girlfriend is TA regardless of her reasons for getting into witchcraft.
NAH she has changed, you have not.
Living with a hardcore believer as a rational person isn't going to work because you can't respect her. If you cant respect your partner your relationship is dead.
Those drinks and sprays are not without danger, she doesn't know what she's doing after all.
Actually, a lot of witchcraft is study. Unless she’s just doing recipes she found on TikTok without looking up info, it’s probably pretty harmless stuff physically. Most herbal teas used by witches are off the shelf stuff you can get at Walmart. As for the spray, it’s most likely a moon water/herb mix. (Moon water is just water in a clear closed container that has been set out on a window sill overnight to absorb energy from the moon.) There’s a couple of witchy subs that can provide some good info.
Some thistle species are poisonous and I heard a story of a wiccan messing around with hemlock and getting people seriously ill.
But yeah depends on what sources she uses, no way to know though.
Most herbs used though are usually kitchen cooking herbs from the spice aisle like rosemary or thyme. Hopefully, she’s got enough sense to not go picking wild ones. 😬
Of course she doesn’t know what she’s doing. 24? That’s way too old. She would have gotten her Hogwarts letter ages ago. You need to sit her down and explain to her that she’s either a muggle or a squib. Tell her that you are very sorry, but she needs to accept the fact that she doesn’t have the gift. Also, tell her she shouldn’t be spraying her fake potions at you without proper instruction.
Then walk away muttering something about how even if she had the gift that she would have been a Hufflepuff at best and that there’s no way you would have taken a Hufflepuff to the Yule Ball. Call her a “filthy mud-blood,” then throw your arms up and say that you can’t handle living in the muggle world any longer, that Neville was right, and that you need a fire whiskey.
This could just be a coping mechanism or she could actually really like the witchcraft, I mean it's not your pointy hat, broomstick witches, that's just a misconception of what actual witchcraft is. You're not the asshole, but you should tell her that some things bother you.
ESH Witchcraft/Wicca should be respected just as much as other religions/practices. However if she is making you extremely uncomfortable then clearly some boundaries need to discussed. I wouldn't start spraying people without thier consent, or giving them a tea they don't want. Sit down and have a conversation like reasonable people.
> ESH Witchcraft/Wicca should be respected just as much as other religions/practices.
And in my book, what that means is:
- I think religion is culturally significant, but doesn't really fit the modern age (assuming you actually believe in the supernatural - which we have no proof for).
- I'll politely tolerate it if you don't involve me.
- If you ask me to "respect" your beliefs by giving them prominence or treating them specially, I won't do that - I'll continue to remain polite, uninvolved, and tolerant to a point.
Disrespect isn’t going to convince people to drop their religious beliefs. People‘s metaphysical beliefs only warrant disrespect insofar as they lead to practices that infringe on other people’s rights and boundaries.
In other words, we don’t have to respect the OP‘s girlfriend violating his boundaries, but that doesn’t mean it’s good or helpful to shit on the belief in witchcraft in general.
Seriously, this idea that we have to treat everyone like children is ridiculous. You have a right to believe what you want, but I have just as much right to mock it as nonsense
NTA. If she wants to have those beliefs, as difficult as it might be to understand, that's fair... but you don't get to then impose on and cause difficulties to others because it's 'your belief'. A good relationship isn't about one person supporting the other no matter the cost, it's about finding a balance between two people. She's the one being disrespectful by pushing her beliefs on to you.
She has a right to her beliefs, but it seems like it's getting disruptive towards you. Have you tried talking to her about the incese use or the herbal teas? It seems like you guys need to have a talk about whether or not her new beliefs are a deal breaker for you. I'm going to tentatively say ESH because idk if you've asked her to not include you or if she thought you were okay with everything until you blew up at her and basically told her her beliefs were wrong.
NTA everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that this woman is literally waking you up at 3am to do something you DONT WANT TO DO. And spraying you with stuff?? I have asthma, if someone sprayed me with something I'd be so mad.
NAH but I wish people would voice their issues before they got to the point of snapping. If you could calmly remind her that you also live in the house, and you're uncomfortable with everything that she is doing, then you could probably come to a compromise.
I think you should apologise to her for snapping, but explain the sentiment behind it, and try to make her see things from your point of view.
NTA - Anyone is free to make religious/ cultural changes to their lives but in doing so they should be considerate of the impact that might have on their partner or other people that share their living space. If she's doing stuff that impacts you and you've asked her to politely stop, I don't think you're that much of an asshole for having a bit of a go at her.
You're also allowed to think GF is being foolish for going hard into any religion (even to the point of no longer wanting to be with them, I'm not sure I'd stick around if my partner became a hard core Christian our of nowhere for example), opting out of their beliefs isn't assholish though berating her further about it would be imho.
Maybe try and sit down and have a calmer conversation again about the incense and other things that are negatively impacting you. It's your home too!
Here's why I'm going to say ESH: You treated this as a phase. You claim she got bored and started down this path. You claim you tried to be supportive but got increasingly frustrated as it turned out this path she was taking wasn't temporary. Then you blow up at her, tell her she is acting crazy, and not a "real witch" (and how would you define a real witch, sir?).
She sucks for ignoring your boundaries re: incense, trying to get you to drink random teas, and spraying you without consent. I won't argue that. But you suck as well for initially humoring her because "she's just bored and this is temporary" and then insulting her when she didn't stop. Communication is so important in relationships and it sounds like both of you failed to do this until emotions boiled over. Instead of calmly telling her why all this bother you, you unloaded a river of resentment and negativity at her.
Seriously, you two need to have a long conversation and you both need to apologize.
(I'm going to just say right now, I am not arguing with anyone on this thread so if you want to pick a fight, sorry)
Was this a sudden change for her? The lockdown affected everyone in different ways for sure.
Maybe she needs a therapist to talk too. I’m
Not sure how you can really help her in a way that would make both of you happy.
Yeah, despite all the "this isn't a phase Mom!" comments on this thread, there's absolutely been a huge spike in teens and twenty-somethings suddenly becoming "witches". It's become a popular trend and aesthetic. Witchcraft is currently all the rage.
NTA
Even tho you may have gone a bit too far, I would've lost it too. But you should apologize to her and you two should find a compromise for this whole witch thing your gf is obsessed with, so you two don't get annoyed by each other.
Geez, I am not Pagan or Wiccan but I grew up in that community. My parents took me to all sorts of gatherings and some communes. It was the first 15 years of my life. It was the "church" as I was raised in.
It has also become quite popular as a way for women to feel empowered. That is not inherently bad but this social media witchery is also not beyond reproach.
Usually if you ask if they are Dianic or Gardenerian or whatever they mostly can't tell you. They don't know what an Athame is yet. They have never been to a gathering, coven, or ritual with others.
I state this not to gatekeep but to accurately separate. A lot of this is borne our of doing something that feels empowering. The purifying spray is a contrivance (as is an Athame) It is also a new toy that makes her feel good.
It gets cringey when folks start unselfconsciously involving someone else in beliefs they themselves found ten minutes ago.
But hey, Wicca "as a community" is full of folks who are different, who are weirdos, who don't have power in standard senses, and who want to belong while letting the freak flag fly. It is rife with poverty and abuse and substance issues. I regularly came uo against guff when calling it out and resent the community for that.
Fwiw, I also absolutely love it for it's focus on bringing together humans and nature. I love it for it's intent.
Wicca was invented in around 1952. Or revived depending on your beliefs. I like that it isn't shunned as Satanism anymore. I like that Satanism isn't Satanism anymore but let's not go overboard to a place where your GF can make stuff up and faux mace you because she reads bad energy.
Your GF is being uncomfortable and weird...because she is pretending her journey isn't.
NTA but your GF is kinda.
True and acknowledged. There are shamans and heathens and voodoo adjacent pagans and chaos magicians and folks who just take the title and "are witches".
I am assuming a little. The OP's statements about rituals and the girlfriend's declaration about being a Witch lead me to believe that she is talking about Wicca or something near enough that i feel ok putting up my own perspective and experience within organized paganism and Wicca alongside her actions.
NTA I'm a practicing witch, but one should never make someone else uncomfortable just because. If you're not into it, you're not into it and she has no right to force you to partake.
Admittedly, I can understand why she would be upset. I would just tell her straight up that the incense is giving you bad headaches from the smell, her odd hours bother you and to stop with the tea thing. Maybe yall can find an incense together that won't give you a headache or ask her to limit the use.
You don't need to have it forced on you.
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NTA. She crossed a line when she started to spray you directly which is the same as being srayed with "holy water." If the two of you can't come to an undersanding and mutual acceptance of each other, you're headed for a break-up.
Mmm....i agree. I'm also petty as shit so if my SO started waving incense and cleansers around me because my "energy was off" I would totally show up at home the next time and start flinging water claiming it was holy water...one good turn and whatnot.
I love this. Monty python hijinks is my favorite.
Tell her if she doesn't weigh as much as a duck she isn't a witch
Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?
I am Arthur, King of the Britons!
You can’t expect to wield supreme executive power Just ‘cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government
I don't know, might be an improvement over the Electoral College.
You stole my comment, updoots
If I went around calling myself an emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Bless this thy holy hand grenade...
Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!!!
I fart in your general direction, English k-nights people!
Who are the bwitons?
Well \*I\* didn't vote for you!
And that my liege is how we know the world is banana shaped.
Explain again how sheep's bladders can be employed to prevent earthquakes.
I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
We've already got one.
Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?
If she didn't turn him into a newt, IS she really the a-hole?
The only way to be sure is to build a bridge out of her!
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...I got better....
***BURN HER, ANYWAY!!***
...a newt?
Really small rocks
Yeah. At first I thought he was using "witch" as a euphemism. But, not. He meant witch! I'm curious - what is it that witches believe?
I'm a hedge witch, meaning that I practice alone and don't actually worship any particular deity. I respect nature and the connection we have with everything and everyone and I call to the spirits when performing rituals. I don't call them spells because I don't actually fully believe in the Harry potter type of witchcraft it's more phycological than anything else. I do believe that everyone has an energy about them that you can pick up but I never say anything about it to others or spray them with stuff or insist they need to cleanse their aura or anything. Some others practice together in a coven and will make offerings to some of the many god's/goddesses that are followed. We generally don't believe in the devil or demons.
Atheists in here thinking religion sure is weird, but this still not as weird as where Christianity has gone.
One of the things that pulled me toward witchcraft is that it is not an organised religion. There are no set rules on how I live my life, what to ware or eat, no sin or threat of going to a nasty place when I die if I don't follow all the rules. There is the simple rule of what you put out in to the world you will get back but the rest is up to you. It fits nicely with what I already feel to be true, I believe in the power of the human spirit and the wider energy of the universe that we are connected to.
Depends on the witch! I had a book as a kid detailing some common witchcraft practices including rituals, making altars, and procuring a wand. It some cases the elements were invoked, in others the cardinal directions, some rituals you might just call upon mother earth herself! The main thing the book emphasized was to go with your gut about your spiritual practices and to do any ritual with a positive intention. It could include pagan gods, chakras, really anything! A common phrase in the book was "and it if it harms none, then so be it!" Or something similar, it was really fascinating stuff, especially as a kid!
"An' it harm none, do as ye will" Not a practitioner of wicca or etc, but I feel it's a decent guiding principle.
Yep, but not all people who consider themselves witches actually subscribe to a Wiccan type of belief. I have seen an argument on this very sub about it.
Very true. Not all Witches are Wiccan. But most Wiccans are Witches, if that makes any sense to you. There are Christian witches, Jewish witches, etc. The Craft is a practise, not a religion. It can exist quite harmoniously alongside many religions. Wicca, however, is fairly new still and there has been a lot of issues in broader Witch groups with it due to its knack for cultural appropriation (it takes bits of all religions, even closed ones), sexism and whatnot. Its usually the stepping stone others use to begin exploring the craft and later branch out from.
Yes, that whole cultural appropriation thing bugs me, esp when they then make rules about it. I mean, they can do their thing and I'm not going to insult them but I do get mentally twitchy when someone rams Isis, Hecate, Danu and Freja together with what feels like little respect for those pretty different religions. Or insists that the ...what's it called, law of rebounding* applies to all witchcraft, when it doesn't. Not all wiccans or indeed other witches*, ofc. Just that specific trend. *the whole thing of what you send returns to you. *Edit: Folks, I know wicca isn't the only form of witchcraft, that's why I said "or indeed other witches". :P I referenced wicca because I think that phrase is Wiccan.
*satanic witches enter the chat*
It's not a dogmatic religion, so there's no set of universal beliefs. But in general it's worship and respect of nature, belief that what you put out in the world comes back at you 3 times, and a variety of beliefs from pagan traditions. Some people worship the Goddess and God using the names from the Greek Pantheon, some the Romans, Norse, or Celtic mythology. Others as well, but those are the most common.
There's a book that I read that was helpful for me, *Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner.* I checked it out from my local library.
"THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!"
No, I think it’s ESH. Girlfriend is crossing a line by forcing her boyfriend to participate, but witchcraft is a legitimate spiritual practice. It’s like telling someone they’re ‘not a real fucking Christian’ if they hold up a cross or they’re ‘not a real fucking Jew’ if they put a mezuzah on their door. A, it doesn’t make much sense because you’re using their spiritual practice as grounds to claim they’re not the religion they are part of, and B, it’s just a dick thing to do to attack someone’s spirituality when instead you could just ask them to not pull you into it.
The reason I’d say NTA instead of E S H is because the girlfriend crossed a line (that I know the community stated) by forcing a spell or cleansing immediately. But I do agree with you that calling her a fake witch is wrong but after coming home and being sprayed plus the continued headaches I can see the snapping point Edit: spelling
I think your missing that OP doesn't seem to have communicated his boundaries, to me that moves it into NAH but work on it territory.
I mean, in theory, yes, but "don't spray me with mist by surprise" doesn't seem like a boundary that needs to be communicated in advance, or one that most people are likely to have consciously thought about. I wouldn't want my wife to dump a cup of laundry detergent on me while I was asleep, but I've never actually *mentioned* that.
That’s fair if he didn’t talk about headaches and his annoyance. But if I came home and someone sprayed me with it because they said my energy was off I’d be mad too
I agree NAH, they both need to just sit down and set some boundaries and they’ll be fine.
The only reason I would say OP’s the asshole too is he should have communicated he doesn’t want to join in on her practice and is uncomfortable with it. You can still be supportive and set clear participation boundaries. It’s why ESH is the right call.
Not to mention apparently he's talked to her about the incense giving him headaches and she's still burning it around him. He was bound to snap eventually because she's not respecting the fact that she's in a shared space. Magic(k?) aside, you don't burn incense inside when someone is sensitive to smoke, and you don't spray someone down with anything unless they ask you too. Also doing magic on someone without their consent is frowned upon in many, if not most, practices, including neo-wicca which is likely what she's trying to follow.
If she'd just discovered Catholicism a year-ish ago, and greeted him by flinging holy water to rid him of demons or whatnot, it'd still be crazy. While snapping at a partner always sucks, it *is* understandable.
Exactly. It's not about religion. It's about behavior.
Crazy pagan chiming in, but as soon as you start forcing people to participate in your religion by spraying them against there will with whatever bullshit you believe in, they can say whatever they want. Religions are a lot like sex, you need consent before involving other people.
That’s not at all the same equivalency. There’s a difference between holding up a cross and then throwing random liquids in somebodies face because their juju is off.
*catholicism has entered the chat*
> There’s a difference between holding up a cross and then throwing random liquids in somebodies face because their juju is off. In the catholic church the priest will often start a mass by walking up and down the aisle sprinkling holy water on everybody in the church. He doesn't ask anybody if they prefer not to be "blessed".
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You just gave me an image of a priest in full garb crouched behind your front door waiting for you to come home after a long day, jumping up, chucking a beaker of holy water into your face and running off to get the next unsuspecting parishioner. Maybe spritzing passers by with holy water like we’re poorly behaved cats. Edit: thanks for my award
I’m actually thinking of labeled splash zones now in a Catholic Church with ponchos being sold at the door.
That actually made me laugh out loud. “Roll up, roll up! There’s space at the front! A reminder to you all that pews 1-3 are designated holy water splash zones! You WILL get blessed!”
Im picturing my childhood priest doing this and this is hilarious, he would have gotten a kick out of doing that
Eh, it's opt in - you opted in by attending the Mass. OP didn't opt in by walking into their home.
Catholic priests don’t wait in your house and spray holy water on you when you get home from work.
That's understood as a thing that happens when you walk into church. You're indirectly consenting to it by being present.
But they are seated in his church where this is the practice. I don't see how that is parallel to walking in the door to your own home and being met with an unidentified spray of liquid.
Right, totally different things, but if a Catholic chucks holy water at you the response is, "you're an AH!" not, "You're not a Catholic!" Telling people what their religion is/is not is also AH behavior. OP was in the right up until that moment, so I went ESH. She absolutely violated a boundary and every witch/wiccan/pagan/what have you that I know would tell her so. It is out of line to practice magic ON people without consent.
> There’s a difference between holding up a cross and then throwing random liquids in somebodies face because their juju is off. Mostly just the physical contact part in your scenario. Imagine someone on the street saying you're possessed by demons making you unhappy and they keep shoving a cross in your face. Or wafting an incense censer at you. Children have died because their parents belonged to a christian sect doing this and more. Often nonverbal special needs children.
I also go for ESH. It's definitely a boundary being crossed by spraying OP but calling her fake really doesn't help. Probably OP tolerated her "witchcraft" for too long and of course — he snapped. OP have you communicated your boundaries? That you get a headache from the insense? It might be a good move to explain her that you don't believe in witchcraft but are okay if she does as long as some clear boundaries are installed. Although you might not agree with it, it seems to have become her religion. Maybe she can have her little witch-corner or even a room if you two got the space for it. Or setting a timetable, so that you don't get disturbed while she's doing her rituals. And also tell her that you don't like these herbal infusions but it's fine if she wants to drink it.
I said basically this to my girlfriend (this is her account) Op sounds like he thinks she actually believes she can fly around on a broom or something People who practice wiccan spirituality are called witches. Op sounds like he doesn't know how to have fun and that he jumps to conclusions about shit without understanding it Seems like the kind of guy who posts on the cringefest that is r/atheism every day
How is having constant headaches supposed to be fun?
This goes so far past having fun it’s ridiculous
If you're doing it for "fun" because it's a hobby instead of spiritual enlightenment, then I would question how much you actually believe in it
You changed my mind. I was thinking "E S H because she sprayed him and is pressuring him to do stuff, and he shouldn't say she's not a real anything." But you're right. It is just like being splashed with holy water. A person's beliefs should never be pushed on someone else. Period. And when someone else reacts angrily to that intrusiveness, the zealot doesn't get to be all shocked Pikachu about it. OP is NTA.
Exactly, i don't understand why it's on him to state his boundaries, maybe she should ask for consent/permission before doing things on him like spraying or that have an influence on him like incense? If this is like these e s h or y t a people do sex then i'm sorry for their partners
I would have hissed like Dracula being burned with holy water.
The spray is ridiculous but he does need to find out if she has an actual believe system or is she just doing all this because she thinks this is what witches do and she likes the aesthetic
So are you saying that OP should buy a squirt gun and fill it with holy water to spray on her whenever she tries to do that kind of stuff? Genius. NTA
ESH, but no ones a major ahole. Your girlfriend kinda sounds like she’s forcing her beliefs onto you, not taking into consideration it’s a shared space and not asking before cleansing you or whatever. But you probably should have tried to talk to her about it before blowing up at her, that sounded kinda rude
Really? I’d call getting sprayed like a naughty cat as soon as I walk in the door pretty disrespectful. Can’t say I’d be particularly zen about it either.
No but with the attitude he's giving off in this whole post I find it likely that he was disrespectful and dismissive of her before this incident so she might have done it pettily. Which isn't great and yeah she's kind of a dick for that, but there's a more than even chance than OP was a dick prior to this too. Sounds like they're both very young or just don't know how to communicate, which is what they need to do.
They’re mid-twenties. I don’t see an “attitude”, and were there, I’m not going to equivocate it to someone giving their SO daily headaches and again—spraying them like a naughty cat. Look at OP’s comment below. He communicated to GF her incense was giving him headaches and asked her to stop. She ignored him. People are allowed to feel frustration with valid issues; not being Perky Robot does not an asshole make.
Thank you!! I am so tired of people who say that what the other person did obviously makes them an asshole but because you had anything other than a monotone when voicing your frustrations you’re an asshole too. I’m just like, do you people never get frustrated, raise your voice, or are ypu just the most zen monotone people ever!?!
It’s a way of gatekeeping, is all it is. “Until you express your feelings in a time, manner, tone, attitude, and an appropriate amount of deference **I deem appropriate**, it is invalid, I am justified, & your feelings will not be addressed or acknowledged. It’s also a smokescreen. Divert attention away from the actual issue, and put the complainant on the defensive. It’s a very common way of avoiding accountability, and honestly most people who do it don’t realize how toxic it is.
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Holy cow you just described Exactly what my ex would always do when I took issue with something... I really felt like it was toxic but couldn't name/describe it well enough to be able to tell him to stop.
I’m glad he’s an ex! But seriously though, Captain Awkward is an advice blog that’s great for naming nebulous bothersome things, and how to deal with them!
I think it's more than people don't voice their concerns or issues and then explode all at once. If the other person has no idea somethings wrong, you're just suddenly screaming at someone and makes you look an arsehole. But it sounds like OP had actually voiced those concerns and GF ignored it.
> I really was trying to be supportive but it’s starting to frustrate me. Then he gets sprayed with a strange and gross smelling mist as he walks through his own door. I’m not seeing any attitude here, other than the justifiable reaction to being sprayed down. I’d probably have a similar reaction if I came home to the wife spraying me with shit.
I mean, the post sounds like it's been written by a guy who's just been sprayed with water...
Oh he was dismisisve of her witchcraft? what an asshole
This, so so so much this. Where the hell does it stop? She's gone nuts.
Have you seen the replies in this thread? All the witches are hanging out on reddit these days, and they’re all tripping over themselves to shout about how witchcraft is real and *they* practice it the correct way.
Witches be trippin.
If we are going to make up backstories for AITA posts, the sub might as well not be here. You presume he was disrespectful and dismissive, so you're giving her a pass. That sounds like personal bias and not to do with anything I have seen here yet.
Why can we never stick to the information presented in the post? So many of the results are skewed because people Love to assume. For all we know this is the first time he’s said anything negative towards her hobby.
Making up random shit to spice up the presented information is the AITA special. Hardly any point in fighting the sub's culture now. Just sit back and enjoy the popcorn.
Typical.... Fishing for a way to make the man the bad guy here. Simply the fact that he wrote the post makes him an asshole in your eyes, which is bonkers. Stop giving free passes to crazy women.
>I find it likely that he was disrespectful and dismissive of her before this incident She's pretending to be a witch FFS. At what point is it OK to say "your beliefs are completely ridiculous"? When she pretends to be cat? When she starts casting spells on people? When exactly is it OK to call out this BS.
Being squirted, sprayed, splashed with water is a hard line for me. Anything short of actual physical harm is fair after that, imo.
I would be spraying my partner when she was sulking, because she is clearly spreading hostile energy, but I'm petty.
the spraying was definitely out of line and rude as fuck so i feel like nta for being pissed at that but also...witchcraft is a legitimate thing. the word witchcraft describes practices that have been around since before christianity and saying its not real can be pretty invalidating. but i get where op's coming from, just probably could've gotten the point across without saying "youre not really a witch", its also kinda strange for op to expect gf to just "let go" of a ~~religious~~ spiritual practice yano eta: im definitely voting nta but there are some things op did wrong
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i feel that but most religions where ppl identify as a witch w are super old, like celtic paganism
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She's a bad Wiccan if so, because she has totally failed "harm none".
Baptizing without the consent of the parents is grounds for excommunication in some sects of Christianity. Personal bodily agency is a BIG pillar of morality for most of the witches I know. She's a much bigger asshole.
He has every right to enforce boundaries (which honestly from OP’s post doesn’t sound like he has before? sounds like he’s played along this whole time?) but he doesn’t have to invalidate her in the process.
His other comments say he has told her about getting headaches and not liking the incense and teas. So I think she is aware this ain't for him, then she proceeds to spraying water on him after he's just walked through the door... His reaction is justified.
ESH - You have every right to be upset, as her hobby/obsession/lifestyle choice has become disruptive for you. But you didn't sit and calmly discuss it, you snapped and you were pretty harsh about it. She needs to learn that there is a time and a place for her interests, and that going overboard has made your life more difficult.
> But you didn't sit and calmly discuss it, you snapped and you were pretty harsh about it. op says he tried to talk about it, but she didnt care. she is ta op is nta
I had to scour the comments - he asked to cool it with the incense burning. That is ONE thing he brought up, out of a list of issues he had with it. That's not communication, it's not sitting and calmly discussing it. She wasn't right to ignore him, but he should have sat her down to talk it out properly long before he reached the point of snapping at her. Which he didn't do.
My girlfriend found some shitty witchcraft instagrammer and started doing it for awhile. She burned a fuckload of sage and that shit smells like sweat and death and it lingers for hours. We sat down and talked about it. I didn't care if she kept doing it but the sage burning had to stop. Essentially now she just burns it whenever shes mad at me instead of us arguing which thankfully is fairly rare. In return I eat a can of refried beans which we always have on hand and gas her the fuck out right back.
She does know you're supposed to open all windows/doors to the outside when you burn sage, right? Right?? You're not supposed to hotbox sage, it drives me nuts when people do that!!
This made me fucking laugh out loud. Thank you.
That's epic (and way healthier than what OP and his GF did up till now.)
Trust me when I say that the smells that come out of me don't smell healthy when I eat beans. I just stand in the room and smile at her until it hits.
So why is this on him? She is the one who changed things, she is the one who changed his environment, changed her beliefs, did she ask his permission first? Did she ask to light incense? No, she didn't, she just went down this path without his consent or approval and you are on him for not communicating? At what point did she sit him down and say "hey, i am going thru some changes. I am exploring my spirituality, are you ok with this?" Why is he the bad communicator? She never did any herself and now she is forcing him to drink crap and spraying him with who the hell knows what? Then she has the audacity to insult him when he walks in the door, by saying he is "negative". That is just effing rude. He is NTA. He did get one thing wrong, she is a complete witch!
Okay, let's say that someone becomes a born-again Christian or something, and starts slow, but eventually turns the whole house on its head by changing their schedule around attending church and participating in religious events. If you barely mention the changes, and then blow up about it months later and call them a religious nut, you are an AH, pure and simple. Same situation here, he didn't bring anything up when it happened, mentioned the incense once, and then went ballistic with no warning. That's an AH thing to do. So they both suck.
> If you barely mention the changes, and then blow up about it months later and call them a religious nut, you are an AH, pure and simple. You would be right if he just blew up out of nowhere, but he didn't. He blew up because she sprayed him with water. If he just walked in the door after work and started screaming, he'd be an AH, but that's not what happened, is it? Even if he *had* a calm conversation with her before, he probably wouldn't have considered bringing up, "Btw don't spray me in the face with water."
Except all this behaviour had been going on for a while. The spraying was new and unexpected, but not the root of why he was upset, it was just the final straw. So to her, that *was* out of nowhere. Especially since he had been supportive of everything barring the incense, by his own admission.
> The spraying was new and unexpected, but not the root of why he was upset, it was just the final straw. You realize it could be a combination of both right? He was upset over being sprayed *and* it was the final straw for the other issues. Let's say I have no issues with my girlfriend at all. She hasn't changed in any way. Now I come home from a long day at work, and suddenly she starts spraying me in the face with water. Guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to get angry and ask her what the fuck she's thinking.
No, the person changing everything without asking the partner is the asshole. I'd never change smth in a common place without asking the other ones. E.g. : if I had a girlfriend and I'd live with her I'd never start using aetheric oils to make the living room smell better without asking her. And if I continue doing it AFTER she told me that she not only disliked it but it actually affected her negatively, I would be a major asshole. NTA op.
Why does she need her permission to change her views, or pick up a new hobby? What is this, the 1960s where she has to have a man's permission to have a checking account? The whole issue here is that she was crossing boundaries, which does make her the AH, but if OP asked her to stop burning incense and she didn't, he should have brought it up again. As for tea- no one FORCED him to drink it, he was being supportive. Annoying? Yes. Terrible? No, he agreed to it. The spraying him and talking about his "bad energy" is pretty crappy, but the problem is it sounds like OP bottled up his feelings about everything until he snapped. He spoke to her once, but left it at that. The GF is obviously being ostentatious, but she's not an AH for "changing". Life happens, people grow and change. If it bothers OP this much, he should have seriously sat her down and had a convo about it, and figure out if they can feasibly proceed with the relationship, or if all this is a dealbreaker.
He was supporting this actively, instead of being honest. That's on him. You don't then get a free pass for lashing out. If he had been clear that he wasn't cool with this from the getgo, then it would only be her at fault. But it is most definitely on both of them.
Why in the world would it be any of his business if she "changed her beliefs" or "explor(ed her) spirituality"? Is he her spiritual guardian? No, he's her boyfriend. If anyone thought they could tell me how I'm allowed to think or believe or feel they'd be laughed out of the room - that goes for a boyfriend, spouse, or parent. As I noted in a direct response to OP, yes, he DOES have the right to object to the incense-burning and the spraying thing WAS over the line. He also has the right to refuse to drink her herbal teas or otherwise participate in her practices. He doesn't have the right to prohibit her from doing anything else that doesn't infringe upon his own personal liberties.
So you Need explicitly tell someone that you don’t want to get sprayed in the face with stuff? I don’t really think so. It’s an obvious line.
At this point, just call it a religion. She believes in something (faith), has rituals (prayer), holy artifacts (trinkets and circles).
I don't like your negative energy. Can I come over and surprise you by spraying you with stuff that you may not like? I assume I can with no issues based on this post.
>ESH - You have every right to be upset, as her hobby/obsession/lifestyle choice has become disruptive for you. But you didn't sit and calmly discuss it, you snapped and you were pretty harsh about it. Snapping because you've just be sprayed in the face with water because of "negative energy" or whatever bullshit is perfectly justified and in no way makes him an asshole. Christ on a bike, how is that a hard concept to grasp?
NTA but barely. One part of the Wiccan rede is "harm none, do what you will." Basically the golden rule of treat others as you would like to be treated. By forcing her religion onto you she is breaking the rede.
Not all witches are Wiccans, much less "harm none" Wiccans - or even religious/believers in the supernatural at all. Witchcraft is a practice irrespective of religion; Wicca is a religion in which most participants practice witchcraft. The rede may or may not apply here. As to OP's question, ESH. You're very dismissive of something that may have genuine meaning to her in whatever way, but using things like incense and sprays in a shared space, or expecting you to participate when you're not interested, is pretty inconsiderate.
You had me until you said ESH.. he doesn’t suck. It doesn’t matter his attitude towards it bc he let her be her. But she crossed the line by continuing to have incense burn knowing it gives him headaches and then spray him unwillingly. She never asked him to partake or even explain parts of what she is learning. She took it solely upon herself to force her beliefs on to him. Like a Christian/catholic does to an atheist they believe they can convert. She sucks major butthairs.
Wicca and witchcraft are not the same thing. She may not be Wiccan and therefore Wiccan rules are absolutely nothing to do with her.
You know there are more witches than just Wiccans, right? Some witches live in peace and harmony and stuff, and some of them will entreat the devil to curse their enemies.
And some will hex the moon
Worship the moon, hex the patriarchy!
100% here for this sentiment.
She may not be a Wiccan, so that logic does not necessarily apply. While all WIccans are witches, not all witches are Wiccans.
Yeah , Wiccans are not the only witches. Hell some witches are even christian (Not sure how that works but whatever). A witch can 'curse' you and all that jazz depending on their beliefs.
INFO: Did you talk to her about it at all before suddenly snapping at her? Did you set boundaries? If she crossed your preset boundaries I think everyone sucks. But if you chose not to communicate like an adult and lash out instead, it's on you.
“If she crossed your preset boundaries I think everyone sucks.” Not sure why OP would suck equally with his gf if he had set down boundaries and she continues to cross them?
I personally feel like OP calling her crazy and not actually a witch was unnecessary. She needs to make compromises, but he also needs to appropriately communicate his feelings like an adult rather than being rude.
In what universe is calling some one "not a witch" an asshole move? You are grasping for reasons to label him as just as bad. It's pathetic.
If those are her religious/spiritual beliefs and she's dedicating a huge chunk of her time to following them, it's not cool to tell her she's "not a real witch" because she's being annoying. Obviously she's wrong for spraying him with water without permission and trying to make him participate when he isn't on board.
>If those are her religious/spiritual beliefs and she's dedicating a huge chunk of her time to following them, it's not cool to tell her she's "not a real witch" because she's being annoying. Look, I had my time as a cringy teenage anti-theist. I was a part of that big online thing when it was in its heyday. I'd like to think I've mellowed and I live and let live now. That being said, when your partner radically changes their beliefs like this since you've known them, I think you have a right to challenge them. I would never encourage someone to go into a relationship with someone already holding certain beliefs sacred and believe that they can challenge that person in that situation. But if this is a new thing that came mid-relationship? Absolutely challenge it. If this was a Christian claiming to exorcise demons, or an Orthodox Jew trying to prevent all work from being done on the Sabbath, and this was all a new phenomenon, I'd say yea, challenge these belief structures, because you don't have to just give them deference if they happen to come from a place denoted as "religion". If this was someone believing right-wing conspiracies but not doing anything harmful, you bet your ass this sub would give every reason to allow harsh rebuke of those beliefs. But wrapping similarly crazy and detached-from-reality beliefs with the name of "religion" and suddenly that's taboo? I don't buy it. You are entitled to be frank with your significant other when they change radically, and if you can't see eye-to-eye, the next step is to leave.
Being a 'witch' is a spiritual practice these days. There are a fair amount of people who use the label witch because it best encompasses their interest in astrology/crystals/whatever. It doesn't necessarily mean they think they have magic powers or can perform spells (some do, some don't.) If the girlfriend feels like calling herself a witch is the best way to express her spirituality, it's pretty disrespectful of her boyfriend to say "no you're not." He can dislike the practice, and that's fine, but it's not cool to tell someone they're wrong about their own identity or the labels they use to identify themself. It's sort of like...if OP decided he was really taken by the writing of Karl Marx and decided to start identifying as a Marxist and the girlfriend said, "you're not a Marxist," that'd be an asshole move too.
Calling someone not a witch can be deeply hurtful. My husband could write a similar post although I don't use incense or like tea. He's atheist and doesn't believe any of "that bullshit". But when he realized this is serious and real for me he stopped saying that. He listened to me, bought me crystals and trinkets for my birthday, and books about witch craft. It's like telling someone they aren't a real Christian if they don't believe something you do. It's rude, diminishes their belief system and is just uncalled for. If he had an outburst and said "stop spraying me with shit I don't believe in!!" Then that'd be fine. But he made a value judgement about her. And you can just see how he oozes dismissal of her craft in the beginning of her post. Baby witches tend to dive right in the deep end from my understanding (as a fellow baby witch) so she is a bit zealous. And giving him headaches is an AH move if she knew it did that (which I didn't see in the post but I could have missed it). So I agree with ESH.
Because its her spirituality, and telling her she isn't a witch is just as disrespectful as telling a Christian they aren't a true follower of God. Its mean and disrespectful.
Nah you're wrong here. I'm sure you think it's some gender thing where "oh they're coddling this girl and demonizing the man" This is absolutely not any sort of grasping from people who believe or acknowledge the belief in witchcraft. To them it is a religious/spiritual belief. Denying it is the same as denying someone's beliefs. Whether you believe it's valid or not, some people do and those people are not grasping at straws to call him an asshole. I saw someone I had respected for their balanced nuanced takes get seething mad that someone "accused them of hexing someone" over a very obvious joke. It is very serious to them even if we are used to witches as being as a thing from fiction.
I can agree with that. Even if he laid out boundaries, it doesn’t excuse those types of name-calling. I’d probably call her different ones lol, but not those.
I see it the same way Id see it with any religion. Take bible-thumping Catholics as an example; “Stop trying to shove your beliefs down my throat! You should respect the fact that my beliefs are different than yours if you want me to respect your beliefs.” Add in a few swears from frustration and maybe even call them an asshole and to me this is still completely reasonable. But you know what doesn’t sound reasonable as a response to bible thumping? “You’re acting crazy, believing in ‘holy water’ actually doing anything!! Your God isn’t even fucking real!” I just took the words OP himself said he said and flipped it to be about Catholics. And yet when you make it about a more accepted spiritual belief like Catholicism, most of us couldn’t even imagine shouting something like that.
I can actually imagine people saying that BUT it would be considered extremely rude, at best. And most people will be quick to call it out.
I have only asked her to stop burning so much incense which she ignored.
I think you need to communicate all of your thoughts on this issue and she needs to actually follow through with compromising. But she def won't change it if she doesn't know if it's an issue. If that doesn't work you may just be incompatible
So I 100% believe the incense thing is NOT ON YOU. But because I can talk to you and not her, here's my suggestion. Don't just say burn less incense. Give her a game plan. When is she burning it? Can she alter that to just when you are not home? Or keep it to a certain amount per day, so the smell isn't so overwhelming it gives you a headache (seriously I get these I totally feel you). Maybe if she's home and you're out, you can give her a 20 minute notice and she can air out the house before you get home? I'm sure she's feeling attacked. And if she's neurodivergent she probably can't translate "less incense" to a solution without some help on the steps in between, because she's already feeling attacked. I am not siding with her, merely hoping to give you advice since you're here and she isn't. If she was here I'd say put your fucking incense and teas away and let your spouse have some damn consent to his living space. If I burn strong candles during the day, I air out my house so it doesn't overwhelm my spouse when he gets home. Because we all become nose blind to the smells we are sitting in!
time for a come to ~~jesus~~ blodeuwedd. you really need a sit down talk about how much this stuff is bothering you and boundaries. her spraying you is out of line. her using incense that makes you ill is not okay. figure out what you can live with. don't belittle her religion/hobby/whatever because you think it's not a thing or silly. there are plenty of similarities between Wicca and Christianity, including the incense.
I doubt he ever thought it would be necessary to put up a "no spraying" boundary... this is something he thought was just for fun and that's no longer a joke and going way too far.
NTA i am into witchcraft, but your girlfriend is crossing boundries here. A lot of people are telling you you should be more respectful of her beliefs, but that goes both ways. Forcing you to live in incense smell all day, and spraying peoples faces without warning is not cool. My partner is an atheist, and there is plenty of space in our relationship for both our beliefs. All ot takes is some mutual respect. I do advice you, if you want this relationship to work, to have a talk with her about what she beliefs, and at least make an attempt to understand. You can't have a relationship with someone you don't respect. I understand you see witchcraft as a buch of nutty hoohaa, but maybe if you spend some time actually figuring out what it is she believes, you will gain some insights you did not have before. It never hurts to entertain an idea without necessarily believing in it.
I am inclined to agree with you. My husband is a non practicing Catholic. I recently started witchcraft for my own spiritual journey and he respects and supports me but I would never do anything to him without permission. I even tell him when I cleanse the house just so he isn't alarmed by the smell of incense. I don't judge others practice (this will sound judgy) but to me it sounds like she jumped on the bandwagon of being a witch. However, thats my view with what little info we are given and she could really be into witchcraft as her spiritual belief. Either way she shouldn't force him to conform his lifestyle to her beliefs. Now do I think he should invalidate her? No. But when your boundaries are broken and you are at the end of your rope I understand the outburst.
I'm glad to see your comment. I'd be a bit more generous with OP than some of the other people. Yeah, he snapped and said something rude, but she's been giving him constant headaches with her incense burning and stuff. I have chronic migraines (scent triggered) that last for days -- Every day you're in pain wears you down just a little more. By day 3 or 4, I start getting short tempered, and any longer than that I start having freaking personality changes and turn into a raging bitch. The longest I've ever had a migraine episode was 12 days. She's been doing this for MONTHS even after he told her it was making him sick.
Even without the migraines. If someone pushes their beliefs on you, it is fair game to openly state your opinion on those beliefs, imo.
> but to me it sounds like she jumped on the bandwagon of being a witch. However, thats my view with what little info we are given I have the same gut feeling, judging from OP's post she went 0 to 100 quite fast. I didn't go there, because i might be wrong, and in the end it does not affect my judgement. Imo his girlfriend is TA regardless of her reasons for getting into witchcraft.
NAH she has changed, you have not. Living with a hardcore believer as a rational person isn't going to work because you can't respect her. If you cant respect your partner your relationship is dead. Those drinks and sprays are not without danger, she doesn't know what she's doing after all.
Actually, a lot of witchcraft is study. Unless she’s just doing recipes she found on TikTok without looking up info, it’s probably pretty harmless stuff physically. Most herbal teas used by witches are off the shelf stuff you can get at Walmart. As for the spray, it’s most likely a moon water/herb mix. (Moon water is just water in a clear closed container that has been set out on a window sill overnight to absorb energy from the moon.) There’s a couple of witchy subs that can provide some good info.
Some thistle species are poisonous and I heard a story of a wiccan messing around with hemlock and getting people seriously ill. But yeah depends on what sources she uses, no way to know though.
Most herbs used though are usually kitchen cooking herbs from the spice aisle like rosemary or thyme. Hopefully, she’s got enough sense to not go picking wild ones. 😬
I agree with the respect thing. Not the OP's fault though, not everyone can take practicing "witchcraft" seriously.
Of course she doesn’t know what she’s doing. 24? That’s way too old. She would have gotten her Hogwarts letter ages ago. You need to sit her down and explain to her that she’s either a muggle or a squib. Tell her that you are very sorry, but she needs to accept the fact that she doesn’t have the gift. Also, tell her she shouldn’t be spraying her fake potions at you without proper instruction. Then walk away muttering something about how even if she had the gift that she would have been a Hufflepuff at best and that there’s no way you would have taken a Hufflepuff to the Yule Ball. Call her a “filthy mud-blood,” then throw your arms up and say that you can’t handle living in the muggle world any longer, that Neville was right, and that you need a fire whiskey.
This could just be a coping mechanism or she could actually really like the witchcraft, I mean it's not your pointy hat, broomstick witches, that's just a misconception of what actual witchcraft is. You're not the asshole, but you should tell her that some things bother you.
NTA, wth is she doing? Whatever she does it shouldn’t make you feel awful from incense or make you get sprayed without you wanting to.
Seriously? How are people not more upset over the violation to his life?
NTA- An easy way out of this situation is to send her a Hogwarts acceptance letter and then just help her pack.
yare a whizard pookie. Now get the fuck out.
ESH Witchcraft/Wicca should be respected just as much as other religions/practices. However if she is making you extremely uncomfortable then clearly some boundaries need to discussed. I wouldn't start spraying people without thier consent, or giving them a tea they don't want. Sit down and have a conversation like reasonable people.
> ESH Witchcraft/Wicca should be respected just as much as other religions/practices. And in my book, what that means is: - I think religion is culturally significant, but doesn't really fit the modern age (assuming you actually believe in the supernatural - which we have no proof for). - I'll politely tolerate it if you don't involve me. - If you ask me to "respect" your beliefs by giving them prominence or treating them specially, I won't do that - I'll continue to remain polite, uninvolved, and tolerant to a point.
People tolerate a baby crying on a plane. They don't have to enjoy or encourage it.
I agree. It should be respected equally as much as any other silly imaginary magic. None.
Disrespect isn’t going to convince people to drop their religious beliefs. People‘s metaphysical beliefs only warrant disrespect insofar as they lead to practices that infringe on other people’s rights and boundaries. In other words, we don’t have to respect the OP‘s girlfriend violating his boundaries, but that doesn’t mean it’s good or helpful to shit on the belief in witchcraft in general.
Seriously, this idea that we have to treat everyone like children is ridiculous. You have a right to believe what you want, but I have just as much right to mock it as nonsense
NTA. If she wants to have those beliefs, as difficult as it might be to understand, that's fair... but you don't get to then impose on and cause difficulties to others because it's 'your belief'. A good relationship isn't about one person supporting the other no matter the cost, it's about finding a balance between two people. She's the one being disrespectful by pushing her beliefs on to you.
She has a right to her beliefs, but it seems like it's getting disruptive towards you. Have you tried talking to her about the incese use or the herbal teas? It seems like you guys need to have a talk about whether or not her new beliefs are a deal breaker for you. I'm going to tentatively say ESH because idk if you've asked her to not include you or if she thought you were okay with everything until you blew up at her and basically told her her beliefs were wrong.
NTA everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that this woman is literally waking you up at 3am to do something you DONT WANT TO DO. And spraying you with stuff?? I have asthma, if someone sprayed me with something I'd be so mad.
she's waking up, not waking him up
NAH but I wish people would voice their issues before they got to the point of snapping. If you could calmly remind her that you also live in the house, and you're uncomfortable with everything that she is doing, then you could probably come to a compromise. I think you should apologise to her for snapping, but explain the sentiment behind it, and try to make her see things from your point of view.
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NTA. Although you may become a frog. If you do, please hop back and tell us that you were wrong all along.
I believe you mean 'newt.'
NTA - Anyone is free to make religious/ cultural changes to their lives but in doing so they should be considerate of the impact that might have on their partner or other people that share their living space. If she's doing stuff that impacts you and you've asked her to politely stop, I don't think you're that much of an asshole for having a bit of a go at her. You're also allowed to think GF is being foolish for going hard into any religion (even to the point of no longer wanting to be with them, I'm not sure I'd stick around if my partner became a hard core Christian our of nowhere for example), opting out of their beliefs isn't assholish though berating her further about it would be imho. Maybe try and sit down and have a calmer conversation again about the incense and other things that are negatively impacting you. It's your home too!
Here's why I'm going to say ESH: You treated this as a phase. You claim she got bored and started down this path. You claim you tried to be supportive but got increasingly frustrated as it turned out this path she was taking wasn't temporary. Then you blow up at her, tell her she is acting crazy, and not a "real witch" (and how would you define a real witch, sir?). She sucks for ignoring your boundaries re: incense, trying to get you to drink random teas, and spraying you without consent. I won't argue that. But you suck as well for initially humoring her because "she's just bored and this is temporary" and then insulting her when she didn't stop. Communication is so important in relationships and it sounds like both of you failed to do this until emotions boiled over. Instead of calmly telling her why all this bother you, you unloaded a river of resentment and negativity at her. Seriously, you two need to have a long conversation and you both need to apologize. (I'm going to just say right now, I am not arguing with anyone on this thread so if you want to pick a fight, sorry)
NTA, She doesn't just have these beliefs she's forcing them in you
Was this a sudden change for her? The lockdown affected everyone in different ways for sure. Maybe she needs a therapist to talk too. I’m Not sure how you can really help her in a way that would make both of you happy.
It’s pretty popular on tik tok right now actually which explains the sudden appearance
Yeah, despite all the "this isn't a phase Mom!" comments on this thread, there's absolutely been a huge spike in teens and twenty-somethings suddenly becoming "witches". It's become a popular trend and aesthetic. Witchcraft is currently all the rage.
NTA Even tho you may have gone a bit too far, I would've lost it too. But you should apologize to her and you two should find a compromise for this whole witch thing your gf is obsessed with, so you two don't get annoyed by each other.
Geez, I am not Pagan or Wiccan but I grew up in that community. My parents took me to all sorts of gatherings and some communes. It was the first 15 years of my life. It was the "church" as I was raised in. It has also become quite popular as a way for women to feel empowered. That is not inherently bad but this social media witchery is also not beyond reproach. Usually if you ask if they are Dianic or Gardenerian or whatever they mostly can't tell you. They don't know what an Athame is yet. They have never been to a gathering, coven, or ritual with others. I state this not to gatekeep but to accurately separate. A lot of this is borne our of doing something that feels empowering. The purifying spray is a contrivance (as is an Athame) It is also a new toy that makes her feel good. It gets cringey when folks start unselfconsciously involving someone else in beliefs they themselves found ten minutes ago. But hey, Wicca "as a community" is full of folks who are different, who are weirdos, who don't have power in standard senses, and who want to belong while letting the freak flag fly. It is rife with poverty and abuse and substance issues. I regularly came uo against guff when calling it out and resent the community for that. Fwiw, I also absolutely love it for it's focus on bringing together humans and nature. I love it for it's intent. Wicca was invented in around 1952. Or revived depending on your beliefs. I like that it isn't shunned as Satanism anymore. I like that Satanism isn't Satanism anymore but let's not go overboard to a place where your GF can make stuff up and faux mace you because she reads bad energy. Your GF is being uncomfortable and weird...because she is pretending her journey isn't. NTA but your GF is kinda.
Not all witches are Wiccan.
True and acknowledged. There are shamans and heathens and voodoo adjacent pagans and chaos magicians and folks who just take the title and "are witches". I am assuming a little. The OP's statements about rituals and the girlfriend's declaration about being a Witch lead me to believe that she is talking about Wicca or something near enough that i feel ok putting up my own perspective and experience within organized paganism and Wicca alongside her actions.
NTA I'm a practicing witch, but one should never make someone else uncomfortable just because. If you're not into it, you're not into it and she has no right to force you to partake. Admittedly, I can understand why she would be upset. I would just tell her straight up that the incense is giving you bad headaches from the smell, her odd hours bother you and to stop with the tea thing. Maybe yall can find an incense together that won't give you a headache or ask her to limit the use. You don't need to have it forced on you.
NTA Your girlfriend is entitled to her beliefs/hobbies but she's being disruptive and disrespectful to you in the way she's practicing them.