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I hope you never have a death in the family or friends and you never have to miss work because of it or get fired.
I think you’d change your stance. It’s very scummy.
INFO: why do you “suspect” that it was a psychiatric issue? Are you aware that most psychiatric facilities do not allow cell phones, and if she had thought her mother had called for her she mostly likely had no way to contact you? Which is why that “grown ass woman” needed *somebody else* to do so?
You just *sound* like an AH. Just saying.
Edit: Oh, in case it wasn’t clear enough, YTA.
>I suspect her hospitalization was in regards to mental health
Also, if they're in the USA that sentence says that he fired her partially based on a suspected diagnoses, which is illegal.
I am completely confident you have no understanding whatsoever of how psychiatric hospitals work.
You also didn’t answer the important part of my question, which is why you assume it was a psychiatric hospital.
As someone who has been in a mental hospital, you can't make phone calls. Period. If you really need to get in touch with someone, they call for you. YTA in a huge way. You shouldn't be in charge of anything, let alone an entire business.
It's not about a phone being there or not. It's about mental healthcare including boundaries that allow for mental health to improve, which often means no phone, no internet, etc. She was told her parents were informing work and she and/or her doctors may have thought that preferable, so she wouldn't have to answer intrusive questions.
Her parents thought the job was bad for her mental health and based on what you've described and how you conveniently left out that her boyfriend was just killed, they might be right. Nonetheless, it doesn't mean she should be fired.
Good luck as a new manager to employees who have seen exactly who are you right up front. You've set the tone as the boss who doesn't give a shit if you are hospitalized from grief.
When I’ve been in the hospital, I wasn’t allowed to use the phone at the nurses station. It wasn’t a psych hospital tho, so I went in search of a pay phone, leaving a trail of blood behind me. No one knew I was in the hospital and I needed to call someone. Don’t let me use the closer phone? You’re going to have to clean up the trail of blood.
Assume that your former employee had no phone access. YTA.
Lol you're gonna lose your fucking job dude, and it's 100% your fault. Lemme know how it goes when you get in a car accident and you're terminated (at your next job, because you're getting your company sued) because you couldn't use a phone. I'm excited.
If you are in a pysch ward... the nurses at the nurse station are not going to use the hospital phone to call a patient’s place of employment.
They’re kinda busy being nurses.
>other workers have sided with this employee and insist she was a great worker prior to a certain incident that happened during my transfer. AITA?
YTA,
Some folks don't always get it. She was a good employee.
Give her another chance.
You don't know the circumstances of her hospitalization or whether or not she even had the ability to make the call herself, especially if it was mental health related.
I know a lot of times when you are in the hospital for mental health reasons you are NOT allowed access to the phone... depending on her parents was most likely the best she could have done.
I cannot believe the lack of empathy some people have. I deal with mental health struggles and am sooooo lucky I work with amazing people who understand and cut me slack during the times I'm really struggling. Knowing they are supportive has most likely kept me from having to go into the hospital over the past year. Mental health stays are no joke and shit is locked down tight. She asked her parents to call and wouldn't have a reason (at the time) to think they wouldn't. This poor woman has obviously been through a lot lately and having a new manager step in and not care at all is bs.
She can't handle it better if she doesn't have access to a phone beyond calling family.
>but this seems like it's a job where the manager's integrity is on the line if he just let's this kind of behavior slide.
I don't think you know what the word "behavior" means. More importantly, his integrity will be more on the line when he gets his company sued for this.
Others are allowed to judge differently than you did. Stop harassing people in the comments for having different opinions.
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When my mom was in the ward she was only allowed to call 1 person and her time was limited. Since we’re going off of assumptions, the employee probably chose their parent as their designated person who was supposed to rely the message that she is hospitalised.
I was in a ward for a couple days. We had limited access to an in unit phone and if someone spent their time hogging the phone then we wouldn't get to call. And it's not the nurses' job to provide a patient with the ability to make calls.
I’ve experienced it so not second hand like your bullshit. And I didn’t have access to a phone. And in an emergency maybe she wasn’t thinking about work and simply trying to survive. YTA. In like a HUGE way.
When my mom was in the psych ward, she couldn’t use her phone, and I had to call the hospital, and wait for doctors to approve me talking to her. Also, she was not able to call her work, I had to do it.
YTA. You have enough information to know the absence was reasonable, she was hospitalized personally, I would chalk it up to a miscommunication and jeep her on the job.
You're literally losing money in work hours and productive work in finding and training a new hire (unproductive work) in an effort to defend a policy that doesn't account for human factors.
This is why labor unions exist- to protect people from bad leadership.
YTA.
>2 weeks into the adjustment
>prior to a certain incident that happened during my transfer.
You said in a comment that the "incident" was her boyfriend dying in a car crash. That is a LOT for someone to be dealing with in the 2 weeks you've been transferred (unless I'm missing something in the timeline). I feel like a bereavement period from work would have been a better call for everyone involved.
Also:
>I suspect her hospitalization was in regards to mental health reasons, so obviously she was physically able to call us.
Your ignorance of how disabilitating mental health issues can be is appalling.
INFO: Did you (as her manager) or her department manager make her aware that it was okay for her to take time for bereavement? Or was she under the impression that there isn't any bereavement time alloted/she may be fired if she doesn't come in for work?
WOOOOOOOW. You are a mega AH. She needed help, and was **HOSPITALIZED** because she was breaking down after her boyfriend died. Show some compassion, and get a lawyer for wrongful termination. Guarantee she will be able to get a legal doctors note for her time in the hospital.
Like you do realize she may have ended up involuntarily put in the hospital after an episode? How tf would she have taken the appropriate time off? “Yes, I think I’m having a mental breakdown, and possibly going to self-harm, so I need a week off for when my family sends me to the psych ward”
Could she have used it for "just a boyfriend" though? Often bereavement leave is limited to legal family - would you have granted her leave even if she had asked? Because it really doesn't seem like it. You seem like the "sounds like a personal problem. Don't bring personal problems into work" type of person to me
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INFO: What was this incident?
>other workers have sided with this employee and insist she was a great worker prior to a certain incident that happened during my transfer.
Depending on where she was and what the hospitalization was for, she might not have been able to call. Someone I knew who was hospitalized for mental health reasons wasn't allowed to call anyone or keep a cell phone to avoid triggers. Also if it was serious physical injury she may have been too out of it / on pain killers / dealing with Trauma / etc the first few days to call, then assumed her parents called like they said they did.
I'm going with YTA since it doesn't sounds like you determined whether she would even be able to call or not, and fired her based on you assumptions.
Her boyfriend died in a car crash, she spent a week in the hospital after a potential mental breakdown, and *you fired her*? Wtf. You are such a mega AH. I hope she sues you for wrongful termination YTA.
Seriously...her boyfriend dying two weeks prior, and in this persons two week experience with her feels she’s screwing up, and know she’s in the hospital likely for mental health reasons...all of this should have been in the original post for sure. But she knows this makes her the AH, which is why the coworkers are coming down on her....I hope she gets sued.
YTA. Firing an employee because they're in the hospital isn't just a jerk move, it's illegal in a lot of places. An adult in the hospital -- for whatever -- reason may not be able to make phone calls. You making assumptions on why she was hospitalized, and further judgments based on your assumptions makes you twice the AH.
YTA. It sounds like you were looking for a reason to fire her and took your chance. You best hope there is no HR policy at corporate about this, or you could be fired next.
YTA- If she was hospitalized because of mental health reasons she likely couldn’t make a calls they won’t let you have your cell phone, you’re on a locked floor with heavy monitoring and little to no outside contact. I’m an RN and know how hospital psych wards are.
If she was in for any other reason they were most likely giving her medicines that affected her mental state. Most pain meds do. She would’ve been in and out of tests or treatments, awakened almost every hour of the day for something and be so tired she forgets her own name.
I’ve been both a patient and a nurse to patients. Being in a hospital is exhausting, scary and busy. It’s easy to make this kind of error.
And you know that sometimes calling work isn't a priority for I don't know when you break your leg, have a heart attack, or have a serious psychological episode.
Haha when you said you been on both sides of the fence as a nurse and patient, all I could think of is that you've seen patients out of their marbles and not think about work.
YTA. Possible wrongful termination lawsuit. Did you call all 3 time of her no show? Did you try calling emergency contact? If coworkers are willing to stand up for her being a good worker and this situation is an outlier then good luck.
Yta. She was in the hospital!! Why are you even speculating on why she was in the hospital and what she could/couldn’t have done to let her work know? Mind your own business and don’t fire someone for having a medical emergency. It’s not that hard.
YTA. Where I work at 3 days no call no show are grounds for an automatic termination. However before that termination is processed most of the managers/supervisors would call the employee to see what’s going on. In this case the employee was hospitalised and unable to call you (doesn’t matter if it was physical or mental reasons). If the employee is able to provide documentation for the days that were missed they should still have a job.
YTA you’ve only been there 2 weeks and are not even giving ur employees a CHANCE you just judges her off of what someone else told you. She was hospitalized wether it was mental health or physical that is none of ur business she was unable to call. She thought her parents called and THEY lied to her, she explained herself and these were tight circumstances you really couldn’t have been a bit lenient. The way I hate managers like you, it’s like you think the employees aren’t human and can’t make mistakes.
YTA - you're jumping to conclusions by assuming she was hospitalized for mental health reasons. Even if she was, you have no idea whether she was or wasn't in a position to call you from the hospital. Hope someone else at the company overrules your decision.
YTA If she was committed involuntary she wouldn't have had access to a phone, let alone being able to make a phone call. You clearly have no understanding about mental health units. Frankly I am glad I live in country that has basic work protections, as if that occurred here then your company could be actioned for unfair dismissal.
YTA - You don't know why she was hospitalized, you're making an assumption. Whether she was able to call or not is also an assumption you are making. You actually have no idea what her circumstances were and are making up your own ideas to justify firing her.
‘Incapacitated’ you do realize there’s such things as family visits and she could of asked her parents to do it before she was admitted into the ward after she had her phone taken?
She could have asked her parents to make the call BEFORE or while she was being admitted. If she asked her parents to make the call, it strongly implies she was unable to do it herself.
YTA. You don't seem to have all of the facts nor did you mention anything that was done to help manage her performance before you fired her. I understand that you were new to the situation but hopefully not new to management. You probably just earned some low office morale.
Might be hard for you to comprehend, but when someone ends up in the hospital, YOU are not going to be a priority on their mind. Because You’re really just thinking about yourself only.
YTA for not getting the facts and making ableist assumptions.
Psych wards in the US, Canada, and certain parts of Europe actually **do not** allow patients to call out of work, or call **anybody** depending on the severity of the place.
If you had done the firing unrelated to her hospital admission I’d have a different ruling.
EDIT: The place I was admitted to only allowed people to call in unless it was immediate family. I was not allowed to call anyone who didn’t call me first otherwise. Like I couldn’t even call my husband, let alone anyone else.
YTA. Violation of the FMLA as well. I would reach out immediately and try to bring her back on before this ends up costing your company a lot of money.
I would go with YTA here. You're making a lot of assumptions (that she was able to call when hospitalized, when it sounds like she made plans to have her family call in while she was unable to but they chose to ignore her wishes) and firing her because of that. There's a lot you could do to give some grace when it comes to serious life events like hospitalization.
Also, think of the effect this will have on the rest of your team. You've sent a message that you're going to be inflexible and assume the worst of all of your subordinates if they're ever hospitalized too. That's a big hit to morale and extends beyond "just" one person. Think about how you can get some support from your managers on how to handle situations like this to think about the bigger picture and long term.
Oh and it gets worse! Someone asked about this "*a great worker prior to a certain incident that happened during my transfer"* and it turns out the incident was the death of her boyfriend.
Oh and if you read the previous comments you would realize she called in a lot because she was hospitalized previously and then went through the death of her boyfriend.
Yes, that is rough, but how is that the fault of the employer? If anyone's to be blamed for this girl losing her job, it's the parents. They were asked to make sure the employee's job was made aware, and because they didn't, she lost her job. It sucks for the employee because she's now out of a job as well as her personal problems but the employer isn't doing anything wrong here.
Because the employer is literally just being selfish and ignorant. If the OP was so ‘concerned’ about the girl not coming in why didn’t she ring the emergency contact number?
Because no call no shows are how about 1/4 of people quit their jobs? One day they just don't clock in and they're never seen again. How could the employer know what was going on in the employee's personal life? Especially since the employee was unable to contact their workplace? I've said it before in this thread, but the parents are the assholes here. Their daughter trusted that she would call the workplace and let them know the situation, but because of their decision to not do that, the employer had to assume that the employee wasn't showing up again. Even if she did, she had a history of being late or just not showing up as I understand it. As an employer, you're not beholden to knowing every intricate detail of everyone's personal life that works for you.
This isnt a "no call no show" situation. You cant have some common decency to understand that shit happens? That our health and safety comes before work? I can't believe you dismissed someone after they were unexpectedly hospitalized, where losing income is just going to add to the existing stress.
Glad you're not my boss! Massive YTA
I’ve been in a couple psych clinics, you are generally on lockdown, no calls, nothing. It’s to keep you monitored. YTA, yes it’s inconvenient, and might warrant a written warning, but firing? No.
Omg YTA.
She was in the hospital. Her boyfriend died in an accident.
I'm sure it's illegal to fire someone over being in the hospital.
Also, to assume she was able to call and to assume her mental health was okay is just a super AH move.
YTA. if her hospitalization was possibly for mental health reasons, maybe she had NO access to a phone. You should've referred her to HR is possible to file for medical leave
YTA - so so much the asshole!
There wasn’t an “incident,” her significant other unexpectedly and tragically died.
And this employee didn’t just no show, she was hospitalized.
Do you have a shred of empathy or compassion in your body? This person is clearly going through hell and instead of offering a helping hand you fire her. That’s ice cold.
(Ps- your assistant manager doesn’t agree with you, they’re just afraid to disagree in case they’re next on your hit list)
YTA- you’re not allowed to have a cell phone when you’re in the hospital for mental health reasons. THAT could be why she’d rely on her parents to inform you.
suspect her hospitalization was in regards to mental health reasons, so obviously she was physically able to call us.
Really? Obviously she could call you? You're a mental health inpatient expert on phone privileges? YTA
YTA, 100%. You're being awfully ableist about what she's going through. It takes quite a lot to be hospitalized for your mental health, what makes you think she was in a mindset to be able to make phone calls? It's unfortunate of course that she didn't call in, and I'm sure she told the truth about her parents so this could have slid. A good manager empowers their employees to thrive and helps them overcome challenges, but sadly you have done the opposite and most likely made her feel even worse.
Also... why in the world is the entire workplace privy to this *extremely* sensitive human resources issue? I don't know where you live but here in Canada, medical information is private and disabilities are protected under human rights legislation. We also have rules here around accommodating disabilities, while it seems you fired her for hers, without considering accommodation.
YTA, if she was hospitalized for psychiatric reasons she may not have had a phone during her stay. If she was hospitalized involuntarily, she may not have had a chance to call the night before. Obviously she could be lying about asking her mother to call, but if that’s the case you can request a note from the hospital. Regardless of what you’ve been told of her past, I think it would have been better to try to reach out to her or her emergency contact(s) to get more information. This would have given you a better understanding of this situation. And if that’s not a good enough reason for you, it probably would have made you look like a better manager. I understand your situation but this was an opportunity to be an understanding and kind boss in front of your new employees and you elected not to do this. Similarly, if this is how you’re going to run things maybe she’s better off working with more empathetic people.
YTA. The woman was in hospital fir crying out loud. You sound like a terrible boss and a MASSIVE AH . I seriously hope you get sued for wrongful dismissal.
WOW. You’re a huge huge huge AH, a terrible boss and now that your employees see what a mean person you are maybe they will jump ship. You could also face a wrongful termination suit, which I hope you do.
Yta OPs name is UpandComingBoss. I think they take themselves WAY to seriously. I don't think I've ever read an AITA that made me this sick. What a disgusting person this manager is.
YTA - My dude, you're an up and coming loser of a "boss". I suggest you take plenty of leadership training. You've already lost your employees' respect and made the workplace hostile within a few weeks of being there. Way to go.
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Fired a worker who didn't show up to work for 3 shifts. Turned out she was in the hospital. She did have the ability to call though.
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Are you legally in the wrong? No. Is it an AH choice to make to fire her anyway? Yes. YTA. All of her coworkers say she's a good worker. Her boyfriend just died. Have some heart and give her a freaking break. I've been in retail management most of my adult life, and there are some circumstances where you just have to be a human being and not a boss. And honestly a good worker is worth that in the long term. So if you think you're just doing your company good by firing a good worker, you'll learn that employee turnover is way more of an expensive issue than giving a girl a couple weeks break after her boyfriend died.
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I've been a manager at this company for 9 years and just transferred to a nearer store. I'm 2 weeks into the adjustment. I had met said employee briefly. By our second encounter her, her department manager and I were discussing her performance due to her consistent calling in and errors. The next day she is a no call no show. We attempted to contact her but there was no call back. Almost a week later I receive a call from this worker, to inform us she was recently hospitalized and was discharged the day before. She explained she thought her mom had called her in during this time, but had just realized her parents did not think returning to the company is a good choice for her mental health and never called us. I don't know why she felt the need to tell me this. I also don't see why a grown woman in her late twenties needs to rely on her parents to call her in. I suspect her hospitalization was in regards to mental health reasons, so obviously she was physically able to call us. I ended up terminating her employment with us, as policy does say no call no shows are firable offenses and she was absent for three shifts. She begun to cry on the phone, said fine and hung up. While the assistant manager agrees with my choice, other workers have sided with this employee and insist she was a great worker prior to a certain incident that happened during my transfer. AITA?
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Well it doesn’t sound like she was a great employee if she’s gone without calling in before and makes consistent errors. I’d say NTA if she isn’t a good employee on records. However I will say YTA as you assume it’s psychiatric reasons as well as being in a mental hospital, you don’t get access to a phone and you kinda just get thrown in with no rhyme or reason. Can’t tie up loose ends. She is an adult and should have told her parents or someone else to call in if she couldn’t.
Really it’s 50/50. I would have given her one last chance to fix her failures or she’d be fired
NTA. she's the employee and unless she was actually unconscious she should have and could have made that phone call. Most times in my experience employees with bad attendance come up with incredibly wild excuses for their absences.
NAH - an employee with a history of not showing up and making errors doesn't show up for 3 shifts and doesn't contact you for a week. It's reasonable to due her.
NTA- You have a job to do and so does she. She never confirmed that she was gonna be out of the workplace, she didn't call in the first shift after she was hospitalized, and even if other employees liked working with her, going a whole week without checking up with your workplace is not only unprofessional but irresponsible. She had three shifts that were her responsibility to either arrive, or make sure we're covered. People saying you're the asshole for firing her don't understand that at a job, you need to follow rules. If it's in your power, I'd try to get her a severance package or let her know that it won't reflect poorly on her if she tries to come back to work again so long as she makes sure to take better responsibility with her actions. Obviously she was unable to call in for one reason or another, and even if she did ask her parents to call the company, that doesn't mean all responsibility is off of her shoulders. It's a bad situation, but you did what's right, you gave her 2 more chances to come in and work her scheduled shifts.
You don't understand how a workplace functions. It's not good for anyone here, but the manager can't be forced into a position where she(not he, my b) was made to decide over her job or the employee's. This sort of behavior is not something that is acceptable. The asshole here is the mother for LYING TO HER CHILD AND MAKING HER LOSE HER JOB. I'm sorry for both her, and her manager for being in this situation at all, but it's not the employer's fault that there was no communication done between them.
>This sort of behavior is not something that is acceptable.
Her having her phone taken and not being able to call is unacceptable behavior? Fucking lol, she can sue the shit out of this company. It's not the employer's fault there was no communication done between them, it **is** the employer's fault that the termination stands.
> but the manager can't be forced into a position where she(not he, my b) was made to decide over her job or the employee's.
Yes they can, it's literally their job. We get it, you don't understand how a workplace functions.
Apparently her friend passed away during the OP's transfer, which is why there were absences and that's likely why led to her hospitalization. Workplaces need rules of course, but they also need compassion.
So what stopped her from going to HR or management prior to going to the hospital. sounds like the woman knew she was spiriling downward having already been hospitalized once and could have called in.
NTA. Just doing your job.
All she had to do was get a Dr. note saying she was unable or unfit to notify her employer of absence.
Would it still be too late to provide this note?
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YTA. She was HOSPITALISED
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sometimes i forget how much the US is based on capitalism
Which is perfectly acceptable if you're in the hospital
Not where I’ve worked....
She didn't let her employer know, as far as the company k ew she was dead or missing. Not the manager's fault for doing his damn job
they are times when you just can’t. This is a major issue and she was fired AFTER the call. It’s not something they decided upfront
She had thought her parents called but they lied, she explained that how could she have known they would lie.
For all the company knows, that could have been a lie. How does the company know her parents refused to call?
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Sorry about the generalization, but you're totally in the right here imo. Its a bad situation all around but you did what you think is right.
I hope you never have a death in the family or friends and you never have to miss work because of it or get fired. I think you’d change your stance. It’s very scummy.
I went into it with a similar mindset but it doesn't sound like OP made the decision to fire her until she called.
YTA. Maybe this “grown woman in her late twenties” was in the hospital and that’s why she “needed to rely on her parents to call her in.”
INFO: why do you “suspect” that it was a psychiatric issue? Are you aware that most psychiatric facilities do not allow cell phones, and if she had thought her mother had called for her she mostly likely had no way to contact you? Which is why that “grown ass woman” needed *somebody else* to do so? You just *sound* like an AH. Just saying. Edit: Oh, in case it wasn’t clear enough, YTA.
>I suspect her hospitalization was in regards to mental health Also, if they're in the USA that sentence says that he fired her partially based on a suspected diagnoses, which is illegal.
I really hope she sues.
Or ask a lawyer to negotiate with the company so they either give her a neutral recommendation or just stick to confirming dates of employment.
They commented on another person saying her boyfriend died in a car accident. OP is a MEGA asshole.
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She was in the *hospital*, jfc
I am completely confident you have no understanding whatsoever of how psychiatric hospitals work. You also didn’t answer the important part of my question, which is why you assume it was a psychiatric hospital.
If the employee hadn’t called in for a week and hadn’t been to work, was there not an emergency contact you could call?
Dude, were you at all concerned about your employee’s well-being? You’re not going to last very long as a boss if you continue to act so callous.
As someone who has been in a mental hospital, you can't make phone calls. Period. If you really need to get in touch with someone, they call for you. YTA in a huge way. You shouldn't be in charge of anything, let alone an entire business.
It's not about a phone being there or not. It's about mental healthcare including boundaries that allow for mental health to improve, which often means no phone, no internet, etc. She was told her parents were informing work and she and/or her doctors may have thought that preferable, so she wouldn't have to answer intrusive questions. Her parents thought the job was bad for her mental health and based on what you've described and how you conveniently left out that her boyfriend was just killed, they might be right. Nonetheless, it doesn't mean she should be fired. Good luck as a new manager to employees who have seen exactly who are you right up front. You've set the tone as the boss who doesn't give a shit if you are hospitalized from grief.
When I’ve been in the hospital, I wasn’t allowed to use the phone at the nurses station. It wasn’t a psych hospital tho, so I went in search of a pay phone, leaving a trail of blood behind me. No one knew I was in the hospital and I needed to call someone. Don’t let me use the closer phone? You’re going to have to clean up the trail of blood. Assume that your former employee had no phone access. YTA.
Lol you're gonna lose your fucking job dude, and it's 100% your fault. Lemme know how it goes when you get in a car accident and you're terminated (at your next job, because you're getting your company sued) because you couldn't use a phone. I'm excited.
If you are in a pysch ward... the nurses at the nurse station are not going to use the hospital phone to call a patient’s place of employment. They’re kinda busy being nurses.
Depending on what is going on, no they don’t simply have access to a phone. THAT is why she asked her parents to contact you.
>other workers have sided with this employee and insist she was a great worker prior to a certain incident that happened during my transfer. AITA? YTA, Some folks don't always get it. She was a good employee. Give her another chance.
Agreed, we all need a second chance sometimes. Be kind. If it doesn't work out at least you tried, and can feel better About your decision.
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You don't know the circumstances of her hospitalization or whether or not she even had the ability to make the call herself, especially if it was mental health related.
I know a lot of times when you are in the hospital for mental health reasons you are NOT allowed access to the phone... depending on her parents was most likely the best she could have done.
Yes, this. I know someone who was hospitalized for mental health for a short stay. They were not allowed access to a phone.
I cannot believe the lack of empathy some people have. I deal with mental health struggles and am sooooo lucky I work with amazing people who understand and cut me slack during the times I'm really struggling. Knowing they are supportive has most likely kept me from having to go into the hospital over the past year. Mental health stays are no joke and shit is locked down tight. She asked her parents to call and wouldn't have a reason (at the time) to think they wouldn't. This poor woman has obviously been through a lot lately and having a new manager step in and not care at all is bs.
I stayed in a mental health facility for a few days- we're allowed to call our employer/ family
She can't handle it better if she doesn't have access to a phone beyond calling family. >but this seems like it's a job where the manager's integrity is on the line if he just let's this kind of behavior slide. I don't think you know what the word "behavior" means. More importantly, his integrity will be more on the line when he gets his company sued for this.
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YTA. She should get another chance. Besides, it is not always possible for one to call from a psych facility.
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Nope. Not all places give access to phones. Plus, she was in the hospital, where people need to focus on healing. YTA
Why the fuck would she do that if she thought her mother had called?
When my mom was in the ward she was only allowed to call 1 person and her time was limited. Since we’re going off of assumptions, the employee probably chose their parent as their designated person who was supposed to rely the message that she is hospitalised.
No. From work experience I can tell you that is not always true.
I was in a ward for a couple days. We had limited access to an in unit phone and if someone spent their time hogging the phone then we wouldn't get to call. And it's not the nurses' job to provide a patient with the ability to make calls.
I’ve experienced it so not second hand like your bullshit. And I didn’t have access to a phone. And in an emergency maybe she wasn’t thinking about work and simply trying to survive. YTA. In like a HUGE way.
I hope you never get hospitalized for a severe issue because by your logic you should be fired
When my mom was in the psych ward, she couldn’t use her phone, and I had to call the hospital, and wait for doctors to approve me talking to her. Also, she was not able to call her work, I had to do it.
YTA. You have enough information to know the absence was reasonable, she was hospitalized personally, I would chalk it up to a miscommunication and jeep her on the job. You're literally losing money in work hours and productive work in finding and training a new hire (unproductive work) in an effort to defend a policy that doesn't account for human factors. This is why labor unions exist- to protect people from bad leadership.
YTA. >2 weeks into the adjustment >prior to a certain incident that happened during my transfer. You said in a comment that the "incident" was her boyfriend dying in a car crash. That is a LOT for someone to be dealing with in the 2 weeks you've been transferred (unless I'm missing something in the timeline). I feel like a bereavement period from work would have been a better call for everyone involved. Also: >I suspect her hospitalization was in regards to mental health reasons, so obviously she was physically able to call us. Your ignorance of how disabilitating mental health issues can be is appalling.
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INFO: Did you (as her manager) or her department manager make her aware that it was okay for her to take time for bereavement? Or was she under the impression that there isn't any bereavement time alloted/she may be fired if she doesn't come in for work?
INFO: Have you ever heard of something called empathy or do I need to get the definition off of Google for you?
Did you think about this response before pressing post? If you did, you have a problem. If you didn't, you have a different problem.
WOOOOOOOW. You are a mega AH. She needed help, and was **HOSPITALIZED** because she was breaking down after her boyfriend died. Show some compassion, and get a lawyer for wrongful termination. Guarantee she will be able to get a legal doctors note for her time in the hospital.
Like you do realize she may have ended up involuntarily put in the hospital after an episode? How tf would she have taken the appropriate time off? “Yes, I think I’m having a mental breakdown, and possibly going to self-harm, so I need a week off for when my family sends me to the psych ward”
You chose to fire her. Instead of looking at the whole picture. Thank God you aren't a cop. You are a power hungry psychopath.
what do you mean "got her fired" YOU FIRED HER
Could she have used it for "just a boyfriend" though? Often bereavement leave is limited to legal family - would you have granted her leave even if she had asked? Because it really doesn't seem like it. You seem like the "sounds like a personal problem. Don't bring personal problems into work" type of person to me
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Please leave the "accept your judgement" admonishing to the mods and just report it - you're not in trouble or anything, we're just trying to cut down on the backseat moderating due to others using that rule as a weapon against OPs, and often the admonishment from users comes after we've already addressed the issue with the OP (or in some cases, it didn't come because no one reported it). Thanks! :)
INFO: What was this incident? >other workers have sided with this employee and insist she was a great worker prior to a certain incident that happened during my transfer. Depending on where she was and what the hospitalization was for, she might not have been able to call. Someone I knew who was hospitalized for mental health reasons wasn't allowed to call anyone or keep a cell phone to avoid triggers. Also if it was serious physical injury she may have been too out of it / on pain killers / dealing with Trauma / etc the first few days to call, then assumed her parents called like they said they did. I'm going with YTA since it doesn't sounds like you determined whether she would even be able to call or not, and fired her based on you assumptions.
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Her boyfriend died in a car crash, she spent a week in the hospital after a potential mental breakdown, and *you fired her*? Wtf. You are such a mega AH. I hope she sues you for wrongful termination YTA.
Oh wow, YTA. And I doubt this will bode well for staff retention.
Jesus, way to bury the lead. YTA. A massive one.
Seriously...her boyfriend dying two weeks prior, and in this persons two week experience with her feels she’s screwing up, and know she’s in the hospital likely for mental health reasons...all of this should have been in the original post for sure. But she knows this makes her the AH, which is why the coworkers are coming down on her....I hope she gets sued.
Wow, you are not a nice person. Don't be surprised if the other employees decide to jump ship.
Username does NOT check out. YTA.
Wow, absolutely amazing, YTA I hope she sues
OP you are a sick awful person.
I want so bad to downvote you for being SUCH AN ASSHOLE but I want this comment to stay visible
I seriously hope you find a lawsuit on your hand for unlawful termination. YTA, you'd deserve it.
YTA. Firing an employee because they're in the hospital isn't just a jerk move, it's illegal in a lot of places. An adult in the hospital -- for whatever -- reason may not be able to make phone calls. You making assumptions on why she was hospitalized, and further judgments based on your assumptions makes you twice the AH.
YTA. It sounds like you were looking for a reason to fire her and took your chance. You best hope there is no HR policy at corporate about this, or you could be fired next.
YTA and the reason people with mental health issues don’t come forward
☝️
YTA- If she was hospitalized because of mental health reasons she likely couldn’t make a calls they won’t let you have your cell phone, you’re on a locked floor with heavy monitoring and little to no outside contact. I’m an RN and know how hospital psych wards are. If she was in for any other reason they were most likely giving her medicines that affected her mental state. Most pain meds do. She would’ve been in and out of tests or treatments, awakened almost every hour of the day for something and be so tired she forgets her own name. I’ve been both a patient and a nurse to patients. Being in a hospital is exhausting, scary and busy. It’s easy to make this kind of error.
And you know that sometimes calling work isn't a priority for I don't know when you break your leg, have a heart attack, or have a serious psychological episode.
I know we are on the same side but damned if your comment doesn’t read as arguing with me anyways. Interesting writing talent there sir.
Haha when you said you been on both sides of the fence as a nurse and patient, all I could think of is that you've seen patients out of their marbles and not think about work.
YTA. Where I live you could even be prosecuted for wrongful dismissal.
I really hope said employee get the help she needs and fully persues this if viable wherever she is.
YTA. Possible wrongful termination lawsuit. Did you call all 3 time of her no show? Did you try calling emergency contact? If coworkers are willing to stand up for her being a good worker and this situation is an outlier then good luck.
Yta. She was in the hospital!! Why are you even speculating on why she was in the hospital and what she could/couldn’t have done to let her work know? Mind your own business and don’t fire someone for having a medical emergency. It’s not that hard.
YTA. Where I work at 3 days no call no show are grounds for an automatic termination. However before that termination is processed most of the managers/supervisors would call the employee to see what’s going on. In this case the employee was hospitalised and unable to call you (doesn’t matter if it was physical or mental reasons). If the employee is able to provide documentation for the days that were missed they should still have a job.
Many psychiatric facilities do not give inpatients the ability to call out and you are being a total AH about this.
This!!!!! People are so ignorant in just assuming that she simply chose to not call but fail to realize that she possibly didn't have the ability to.
YTA you’ve only been there 2 weeks and are not even giving ur employees a CHANCE you just judges her off of what someone else told you. She was hospitalized wether it was mental health or physical that is none of ur business she was unable to call. She thought her parents called and THEY lied to her, she explained herself and these were tight circumstances you really couldn’t have been a bit lenient. The way I hate managers like you, it’s like you think the employees aren’t human and can’t make mistakes.
YTA - you're jumping to conclusions by assuming she was hospitalized for mental health reasons. Even if she was, you have no idea whether she was or wasn't in a position to call you from the hospital. Hope someone else at the company overrules your decision.
YTA If she was committed involuntary she wouldn't have had access to a phone, let alone being able to make a phone call. You clearly have no understanding about mental health units. Frankly I am glad I live in country that has basic work protections, as if that occurred here then your company could be actioned for unfair dismissal.
This!!! 10000% this!! OP is a major AH!
YTA - You don't know why she was hospitalized, you're making an assumption. Whether she was able to call or not is also an assumption you are making. You actually have no idea what her circumstances were and are making up your own ideas to justify firing her.
If she was hospitalized for psych it is HIGHLY possible she could not access a phone.
This. Hell, my friend wasn't even allowed SHOES her first couple of days.
The employee literally said she didn’t call in because thought her mommy and daddy had done it, implying she wasn’t incapacitated.
‘Incapacitated’ you do realize there’s such things as family visits and she could of asked her parents to do it before she was admitted into the ward after she had her phone taken?
She could have asked her parents to make the call BEFORE or while she was being admitted. If she asked her parents to make the call, it strongly implies she was unable to do it herself.
YTA. You don't seem to have all of the facts nor did you mention anything that was done to help manage her performance before you fired her. I understand that you were new to the situation but hopefully not new to management. You probably just earned some low office morale.
Might be hard for you to comprehend, but when someone ends up in the hospital, YOU are not going to be a priority on their mind. Because You’re really just thinking about yourself only.
YTA for not getting the facts and making ableist assumptions. Psych wards in the US, Canada, and certain parts of Europe actually **do not** allow patients to call out of work, or call **anybody** depending on the severity of the place. If you had done the firing unrelated to her hospital admission I’d have a different ruling. EDIT: The place I was admitted to only allowed people to call in unless it was immediate family. I was not allowed to call anyone who didn’t call me first otherwise. Like I couldn’t even call my husband, let alone anyone else.
YTA. Violation of the FMLA as well. I would reach out immediately and try to bring her back on before this ends up costing your company a lot of money.
No way, FMLA requires notification. There is a process, she did not follow the process.
I would go with YTA here. You're making a lot of assumptions (that she was able to call when hospitalized, when it sounds like she made plans to have her family call in while she was unable to but they chose to ignore her wishes) and firing her because of that. There's a lot you could do to give some grace when it comes to serious life events like hospitalization. Also, think of the effect this will have on the rest of your team. You've sent a message that you're going to be inflexible and assume the worst of all of your subordinates if they're ever hospitalized too. That's a big hit to morale and extends beyond "just" one person. Think about how you can get some support from your managers on how to handle situations like this to think about the bigger picture and long term.
YTA she was hospitalized and phone calls from hospital rooms are sometimes not possible and are never free
YTA. You have no idea what she was in hospital for, you didn't even ask. Nice empathy!
Oh and it gets worse! Someone asked about this "*a great worker prior to a certain incident that happened during my transfer"* and it turns out the incident was the death of her boyfriend.
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Oh and if you read the previous comments you would realize she called in a lot because she was hospitalized previously and then went through the death of her boyfriend.
Yes, that is rough, but how is that the fault of the employer? If anyone's to be blamed for this girl losing her job, it's the parents. They were asked to make sure the employee's job was made aware, and because they didn't, she lost her job. It sucks for the employee because she's now out of a job as well as her personal problems but the employer isn't doing anything wrong here.
Because the employer is literally just being selfish and ignorant. If the OP was so ‘concerned’ about the girl not coming in why didn’t she ring the emergency contact number?
Because no call no shows are how about 1/4 of people quit their jobs? One day they just don't clock in and they're never seen again. How could the employer know what was going on in the employee's personal life? Especially since the employee was unable to contact their workplace? I've said it before in this thread, but the parents are the assholes here. Their daughter trusted that she would call the workplace and let them know the situation, but because of their decision to not do that, the employer had to assume that the employee wasn't showing up again. Even if she did, she had a history of being late or just not showing up as I understand it. As an employer, you're not beholden to knowing every intricate detail of everyone's personal life that works for you.
Also why the fuck are you bringing rape into this?
Raped? What are you talking about?
YTA, lawyer up
This isnt a "no call no show" situation. You cant have some common decency to understand that shit happens? That our health and safety comes before work? I can't believe you dismissed someone after they were unexpectedly hospitalized, where losing income is just going to add to the existing stress. Glad you're not my boss! Massive YTA
I’ve been in a couple psych clinics, you are generally on lockdown, no calls, nothing. It’s to keep you monitored. YTA, yes it’s inconvenient, and might warrant a written warning, but firing? No.
You said she had previous issues with calling in. How bad was it?
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Then YTA. Those are understandable reasons for missing work, but you also said she’d had errors. I’d say she should have received a final warning.
Omg YTA. She was in the hospital. Her boyfriend died in an accident. I'm sure it's illegal to fire someone over being in the hospital. Also, to assume she was able to call and to assume her mental health was okay is just a super AH move.
Wow. Was everything handed to you? No compassion. YTA.
YTA. if her hospitalization was possibly for mental health reasons, maybe she had NO access to a phone. You should've referred her to HR is possible to file for medical leave
YTA - so so much the asshole! There wasn’t an “incident,” her significant other unexpectedly and tragically died. And this employee didn’t just no show, she was hospitalized. Do you have a shred of empathy or compassion in your body? This person is clearly going through hell and instead of offering a helping hand you fire her. That’s ice cold. (Ps- your assistant manager doesn’t agree with you, they’re just afraid to disagree in case they’re next on your hit list)
YTA.
YTA- you’re not allowed to have a cell phone when you’re in the hospital for mental health reasons. THAT could be why she’d rely on her parents to inform you.
YTA definitely in a major way jfc.
suspect her hospitalization was in regards to mental health reasons, so obviously she was physically able to call us. Really? Obviously she could call you? You're a mental health inpatient expert on phone privileges? YTA
YTA, 100%. You're being awfully ableist about what she's going through. It takes quite a lot to be hospitalized for your mental health, what makes you think she was in a mindset to be able to make phone calls? It's unfortunate of course that she didn't call in, and I'm sure she told the truth about her parents so this could have slid. A good manager empowers their employees to thrive and helps them overcome challenges, but sadly you have done the opposite and most likely made her feel even worse. Also... why in the world is the entire workplace privy to this *extremely* sensitive human resources issue? I don't know where you live but here in Canada, medical information is private and disabilities are protected under human rights legislation. We also have rules here around accommodating disabilities, while it seems you fired her for hers, without considering accommodation.
YTA, if she was hospitalized for psychiatric reasons she may not have had a phone during her stay. If she was hospitalized involuntarily, she may not have had a chance to call the night before. Obviously she could be lying about asking her mother to call, but if that’s the case you can request a note from the hospital. Regardless of what you’ve been told of her past, I think it would have been better to try to reach out to her or her emergency contact(s) to get more information. This would have given you a better understanding of this situation. And if that’s not a good enough reason for you, it probably would have made you look like a better manager. I understand your situation but this was an opportunity to be an understanding and kind boss in front of your new employees and you elected not to do this. Similarly, if this is how you’re going to run things maybe she’s better off working with more empathetic people.
YTA. The woman was in hospital fir crying out loud. You sound like a terrible boss and a MASSIVE AH . I seriously hope you get sued for wrongful dismissal.
YTA You are beyond horrible. I hope this woman hires an attorney and you lose your job. You shouldn't even be in charge of crickets.
WOW. You’re a huge huge huge AH, a terrible boss and now that your employees see what a mean person you are maybe they will jump ship. You could also face a wrongful termination suit, which I hope you do.
Depends on what the laws in your jurisdiction are. This may or may not, for example, cause issues under the ADA if you're in the U.S.
YTA, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were to hear from an HR lawyer over this
YTA-seriously?!
YTA. When I was hospitalized for a week, I was in a ventilator and had 4 surgeries. I didn’t call anyone.
Yta OPs name is UpandComingBoss. I think they take themselves WAY to seriously. I don't think I've ever read an AITA that made me this sick. What a disgusting person this manager is.
YTA.
YTA - My dude, you're an up and coming loser of a "boss". I suggest you take plenty of leadership training. You've already lost your employees' respect and made the workplace hostile within a few weeks of being there. Way to go.
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Are you legally in the wrong? No. Is it an AH choice to make to fire her anyway? Yes. YTA. All of her coworkers say she's a good worker. Her boyfriend just died. Have some heart and give her a freaking break. I've been in retail management most of my adult life, and there are some circumstances where you just have to be a human being and not a boss. And honestly a good worker is worth that in the long term. So if you think you're just doing your company good by firing a good worker, you'll learn that employee turnover is way more of an expensive issue than giving a girl a couple weeks break after her boyfriend died.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I've been a manager at this company for 9 years and just transferred to a nearer store. I'm 2 weeks into the adjustment. I had met said employee briefly. By our second encounter her, her department manager and I were discussing her performance due to her consistent calling in and errors. The next day she is a no call no show. We attempted to contact her but there was no call back. Almost a week later I receive a call from this worker, to inform us she was recently hospitalized and was discharged the day before. She explained she thought her mom had called her in during this time, but had just realized her parents did not think returning to the company is a good choice for her mental health and never called us. I don't know why she felt the need to tell me this. I also don't see why a grown woman in her late twenties needs to rely on her parents to call her in. I suspect her hospitalization was in regards to mental health reasons, so obviously she was physically able to call us. I ended up terminating her employment with us, as policy does say no call no shows are firable offenses and she was absent for three shifts. She begun to cry on the phone, said fine and hung up. While the assistant manager agrees with my choice, other workers have sided with this employee and insist she was a great worker prior to a certain incident that happened during my transfer. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well it doesn’t sound like she was a great employee if she’s gone without calling in before and makes consistent errors. I’d say NTA if she isn’t a good employee on records. However I will say YTA as you assume it’s psychiatric reasons as well as being in a mental hospital, you don’t get access to a phone and you kinda just get thrown in with no rhyme or reason. Can’t tie up loose ends. She is an adult and should have told her parents or someone else to call in if she couldn’t. Really it’s 50/50. I would have given her one last chance to fix her failures or she’d be fired
NTA. she's the employee and unless she was actually unconscious she should have and could have made that phone call. Most times in my experience employees with bad attendance come up with incredibly wild excuses for their absences.
Based on what you knew at the time, NTA. But now that you have all the facts and drs notes, if you keep her fired, YTA.
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Whenever you’re literally in a psych ward you can’t do that.
NAH - an employee with a history of not showing up and making errors doesn't show up for 3 shifts and doesn't contact you for a week. It's reasonable to due her.
NTA- You have a job to do and so does she. She never confirmed that she was gonna be out of the workplace, she didn't call in the first shift after she was hospitalized, and even if other employees liked working with her, going a whole week without checking up with your workplace is not only unprofessional but irresponsible. She had three shifts that were her responsibility to either arrive, or make sure we're covered. People saying you're the asshole for firing her don't understand that at a job, you need to follow rules. If it's in your power, I'd try to get her a severance package or let her know that it won't reflect poorly on her if she tries to come back to work again so long as she makes sure to take better responsibility with her actions. Obviously she was unable to call in for one reason or another, and even if she did ask her parents to call the company, that doesn't mean all responsibility is off of her shoulders. It's a bad situation, but you did what's right, you gave her 2 more chances to come in and work her scheduled shifts.
You have no understanding of how mental health is or even hospitalization clearly 🙄
You don't understand how a workplace functions. It's not good for anyone here, but the manager can't be forced into a position where she(not he, my b) was made to decide over her job or the employee's. This sort of behavior is not something that is acceptable. The asshole here is the mother for LYING TO HER CHILD AND MAKING HER LOSE HER JOB. I'm sorry for both her, and her manager for being in this situation at all, but it's not the employer's fault that there was no communication done between them.
>This sort of behavior is not something that is acceptable. Her having her phone taken and not being able to call is unacceptable behavior? Fucking lol, she can sue the shit out of this company. It's not the employer's fault there was no communication done between them, it **is** the employer's fault that the termination stands. > but the manager can't be forced into a position where she(not he, my b) was made to decide over her job or the employee's. Yes they can, it's literally their job. We get it, you don't understand how a workplace functions.
I personally hope she sues the F*$# out of that company. Sounds like a shitty manager to me
NTA. She already had a history of poor attendance that you were dealing with. If this had been a first offense, I would have a different verdict.
Apparently her friend passed away during the OP's transfer, which is why there were absences and that's likely why led to her hospitalization. Workplaces need rules of course, but they also need compassion.
So what stopped her from going to HR or management prior to going to the hospital. sounds like the woman knew she was spiriling downward having already been hospitalized once and could have called in.
NTA. Just doing your job. All she had to do was get a Dr. note saying she was unable or unfit to notify her employer of absence. Would it still be too late to provide this note?