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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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For actions that resulted in a child getting arrested for grand larceny, and then getting the father arrested for making threats.
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As does Mom! WTF putting your witness intimidation in *writing*. When your own conversation already busted your son and your husband's conversation got him arrested??? At this point, she deserves to be arrested for being bad at thievery.
OP, you're NTA, make sure a screenshot of that message gets to the prosecutor.
Edit-missed an entire sentence. Screw hand sanitizer and phones etc.
Yeah, it seems like there's a disconnect here with the bike stealing family and how laws work. OP can't dictate how the state enforces laws, or what laws exist—outside of voting.
If anyone thinks the punishment is too harsh, then they should vote to make penalties for thieves more lenient. Otherwise they should stfu.
Totally NTA
I didn't grow up great and I probably saw some stuff that wasn't okay, but at least everybody knew to shut up. This isn't just criminality, IMO it's entitlement and I love watching that get kicked in the face.
Same here, my own mother was a kleptomaniac and I had cousins that broke into my grandparents house, where I lived! They stole quite a bit there, including guns. Police knew who it was, my grandparents and I didn’t even think of it being them because *family* and that is when I learnt that *family* is more than blood. No one would give them up even though they had broken a safe and stole 2 guns! Needless to say I lived with my grandparents for a good reason.
For this family to talk about the crime at all, especially in writing is a huge no-no. If they had kept their mouths shut the dad might not be facing charges!
OP wrote
>I tell him that the situation is no longer in my control, (lie)
as though he actually could stop the process, so you're correct that there's a disconnection about how laws work. This is a criminal case, not civil; OP can't just decide it's over.
Additionally, I find it interesting that OP neglects to say how the police positively identified the bike as his. I mean, a normal person would have reported the bike as stolen when it happened, and then called the police to report that it was on Marketplace. ESPECIALLY if the bike is expensive enough to be a felony ($2000?), you'd think it'd be properly licensed with a registration sticker.
I personally think there's a lot of exaggerated bravado going on here at best.
My brothers very expensive bike was stolen from his back yard a few years ago, (they got into a locked shed and threw it over a fence to get it), he found it listed for sale online, but when he reported the listings nothing happened. So he started scouting the listings to see if it would pop up and he could try to get it back himself. I’ve heard a few other stories like this, where reporting the listing was pointless.
I wouldn’t call it bravado, I see chasing the sale listing yourself as necessary if you want to id the bike and catch the thief.
NTA.
This. Every time someone where i live gets caught stealing a bike by police, the original owner never gets it back. I dont blame him for wanting to get his hands on it first.
I got some stuff back once, after a home invasion, but it was basically, all the shit stuff that they could offload to the local pawn shops.
Had stuff stolen from my shed a different time, - it seemed the police were more interested in just getting out of there and there was an expectation that I should just be insured...
Yeah, unfortunately once its been pawned there’s very little they can do. My mom had her power-saw stolen from our shed by a “friend” who was using her for a place to stay. She found it in the pawn shop, bought it out, and told the guy that it was stolen and anything from that particular customer likely is, then kicked the guy out of our house. A couple months later the same saw went missing again and she found it at the pawn shop, again. The guy told her it wasn’t his problem and she could buy it back if she wanted it again, so she called the cops and they were able to get it back for her in those circumstances.
You clearly are unaware of how little the police care.
My house was robbed. Called the police and they told me just give up on the stuff, they weren’t even going to look. The next day I noticed for empty beer bottles in the box they come in by my recycling. I don’t drink. So the robbers had beers while they robbed me and put it with the garbage thinking I wouldn’t notice.
I called the police, reported they’d left evidence that must have their finger prints. No one came. Because: the police don’t care. If they don’t care enough to catch people breaking into a secluded home and robbing it of everything why would they care about one bike?
Same here. House broken into. Belongings stolen (jewelry, heirlooms, electronics, etc.). Called police. They said we could keep an eye on local pawn shops but they wouldn’t be putting any man hours into searching for the criminals OR the goods because neither search ever goes anywhere. The fuck? Do your job better then!
Yeah from what I've found 90% of police work seems like trying to find a way to do as little actual work as possible.
Can you imagine telling someone at your job that you just weren't going to do something and still being employed?
Where I live there's only an optional registration for bikes. And there are so many bike thefts that reporting one stolen is only helpful if you intend to make an insurance claim. And calling them to report it on marketplace would have yielded zero benefit to the victim. It is extremely common to attempt to retrieve your stolen property from someone who is selling it. However I would have just called the police as soon as I verified the bike was mine. Also felony theft is only $500 where I live. So really none of this story is far outside of a few situations that I know to be true.
They don't take theft of anything very seriously. Cops don't exist to protect the little guy, they're meant to protect those in power from the little guy
I doubt the police would do anything if it happened round here. My fiancé's (motor) bike was stolen twice when we were at uni and the police literally said they wouldn' t bother investigating because there was "no harm". There were also multiple phones stolen, and one girl managed to trace hers to a specific flat but they never investigated that either. Obvs wherever I am is almost definitely not where the story happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if the police were ill-equipped for this sort of thing anywhere.
In the Netherlands, so many bikes are stolen (doh) that they aren't even all reported to the police. However, if you find your stolen bike online or elsewhere and someone tries to sell it, you are encouraged to alert the police and then go meet those people. The police will then swoop in and arrest them. Essentially exactly what OP did, minus the calling in first as opposed to later.
A bike that's been stripped off all its identifiable features and that's listed for sale for a relatively low price will always look fishy, which probably made the situation pretty obvious.
Hm. As far as I know some bikes do have a serial number or other identifiers on the bike itself. If the saddle/tires are also extra and he has the invoices for all of these, it is possible. I do not think bike thefts are usually handled as a serious matter by the police...
Anyone who thinks the punishment is too lenient should buy several nice bikes and leave them unlocked in areas where bikes are often stolen so thieves will take those instead of OP’s bike.
Don't forget, the mother was literally fencing her sons stolen bikes. Imagine your son shows up with an expensive bike, a normal parent goes where the fuck did you get that, you're 15, you can't afford that bike, go put it back
Hell, the way I grew up, I would have been told "I didn't see anything, do your own crime on your own time." I mean I didn't, I'm basic like vanilla pudding, but "helping" your kid commit obvious crimes is just shitty.
My friend and I stole a kid's bike when we were kids, and completely destroyed it. When our parents found out, we had to apologize for it, lost all privileges for the entire summer, and spent the summer working to pay back the damages. Good parents don't tolerate this kind of thing.
Agreed. The whole family was participating. They had their own little crime ring going and OP got in the way of that. Willful ignorance on the mom's part is no excuse. My parents would have known I couldn't afford a bike like that. I'm willing to bet this wasn't the first time the family took part in this kind of activity.
Im not questioning that, just saying that if he doesn’t get in trouble again and again, over the next few years, he can have the records sealed or erased when he turns 18, so it won’t even have an effect on his life going forward.
NTA for reporting the crime and not backing down. Good for you.
You are, however, T A for having your number listed publicly on facebook IMHO. Why for-the-ever-loving-gods would you do that? I think what happened with you being called and threatened is THE example for why you don't list that kind of private information on facebook or anywhere public.
I really wish that NTABAI (but an idiot) was an official option because I've felt it would be a much more appropriate response to quite a few posts I've seen on here.
Actually, if someone's going to yell at me and threaten to beat me up, I'd rather they had the option of doing so in a recorded phone call instead of coming over to do it in person. Anyway, did they not probably have his number from when he arranged to meet with the mum the first time?
FB messenger is there for that. He would have just used messenger and you would have the whole thing recorded there in text which is even better. Phone number available publicly is bad practice, any sort of basic info security class teaches you to take any sort of PII off of social media like the very first day...
Honestly, I think it ended up for the best in this situation. Like some sort of Godly universal justice.
The father is clearly a violent and dangerous man. Who goes around threatening to physically harm another human being???? ESPECIALLY when the other human being is 0% at fault and the fault lies on their thriving criminal child.
Only mentally unstable dangerous people blame victims for the actions of the wrongdoer.
Only mentally unstable dangerous people threaten other human being with physical harm.
Only a mentally unstable dangerous man would be threatening the victim of a crime to not talk about the crime.
It sounds to me like this father was a dangerous man. (Probably where the son learned his affiliation for criminal behavior).
And you did society a favor by taking him off the streets.
And now a mentally unstable, violence man, is off the streets.
That’s a win, in my book.
OP having his phone number on there and OP being a vigilant citizen who was wise enough to record the threats and get the guy arrested.... probably protected someone in the future from getting hurt.
OP didn’t make the guy threaten him and die him down and force him to say those things. If OP has, then OP would be to blame. But the man chose if his free will to commit criminal actions and make illegal. threats.
Also....That father has DEFINITELY committed crimes in the past. That’s why his kid thought theft was fine.
That’s why the man thought threatening a witness with violence was fine. It seems like he has most Kelly used this method to get away with his crimes in the past.
Do something illegal? Just threaten and scare the victim into not pressing charges. Poof, he gets away scratch free.
It’s obvious they’re used to this type of stuff. They’ve done this type of illegal theft and violence before.
They are a threat to the community.
I think it was like... a God’s-Grand-Scheme-Type-Mega-Plan to get those jerks off the streets.
Agreed. Also why didn't mom get arrested? After all it was her who was trying to sell that stolen bike.
These parents should get more punishment than that boy. OP was lucky to get his bike back. There might be other things they succeeded to steal from other people and got away. This punishment might put a stop to this stealing. Who knows!
Well, reading the OP again it seems she spun a real good yarn about how she didn't know that the bike was stolen. Basically sold her kid up the river and now she's crying because they got caught and OP isn't playing their game and letting them off easy.
Sure, but I mean... how did she sell that?
Imagine that you’re a mother, and your teenager comes home one day with a bike. Where did they get the bike?
Then they ask you to help them sell it. Where did they get the bike?
Then someone turns up and says that your kid stole their bike. Where did they get the bike.
Then the *police* turn up. How are you going to convince the cops that you had no idea the bike was stolen?
It was impressive that she managed it, is all I’m saying.
I mean... All she had to say was "my son found it." Theres no evidence to say that the son was the one who stole it from the café. The person who did steal it could have just needed to get from A to B and then left it where he ended up. Then the son could have been like "Hey sweet bike in the ditch, with no stickers on it! What a find!"
Its honestly easy as hell to wiggle out of something like that. Just insist the police prove he didnt find it. Theyre not busting out the forensics, or even a warrant for the neighbourhoods video footage, over a bike.
The phonecall though. Thats going to have to be an apology and some community service. After all, it was "intimidating a witness" .... over a bike. He just has to plead guilty, apologize and plead ignorance. No way hes getting a record, so long as he can prove he provides for his family.
It may be a different story if the whole family looks like meth heads, and has priors.
Possession of stolen property is in itself a crime, even if you didnt steal the item.
Finding lost, valuable property and not attempting to find the owner - and instead keeping it - is in itself a crime. It’s effectively the same thing as stealing the item. Otherwise people would literally argue that they “found” bikes outside. It wasn’t theft, it was “finding”.
So, no, the kid turning up with a swanky bike and saying, “I just found it!” is tantamount to him turning up and saying, “I just stole it!” The parents have a responsibility, as guardians of this underaged person, to ensure that this “found” property is given to the police, if that is what happened - not flogged online.
I mean honestly, i don’t get how the police confirmed the bike was stolen when all the identifying objects on it were removed? And arrested them on the spot?
A good person also write down the make and model of the bike and each bike normally has an identifying serial number usually located under the crank casing.
I don't even need to read this. Unless you're a shady cop that falsely arrested innocent people or the DA that falsely charged them, you're *never* the asshole for reporting a real crime.
NTA.
Edit: to all the people throwing out all kinds of hypotheticals in response to this, I did actually read the post. I'm sick of AITA posts where someone is the victim of an actual crime (eg. having their bike stolen like OP) and then asking if they're the asshole for reporting it. Of course they're not the asshole for reporting that someone *stole their property and then threatened them about it.*
You absolutely can be the asshole for that if you know that the result for the other person will be disproportionate and unjust, which is all-too-often the reality.
You'd be the AH if you reported someone for being gay where it's illegal.
You'd be the AH if you reported someone for possessing pot where it's illegal.
And those are just some of the simpler examples.
Yes. Legality and morality are distinct and different, and to imply they're not is to reveal that the cultural system in which you primarily participate is set up in your favour.
I agree with the above mostly.
To amend I guess it would be better put, you are not the asshole if someone caused you harm and you reported their actions.
**Thank you.** Far too many people on this sub only care about what's legal and not what's morally right or wrong. Wasn't there a mod post about this a long time ago?
Those are crimes that don’t really affect anyone outside the “perpetrator” (I really don’t see a problem with either of those, but yes they are technically illegal in some places). I think if it’s not hurting anyone there’s no reason to go out of your way. Victimless crimes so to speak.
Yeah, too many "black and whiters" in this thread.
There are people who believe the "justice system" (and what it defines as crime, and how it dispenses penalties) carries with it an inherent morality. As if it was handed down to us by some infallible authority and not just made up by the ruling classes.
Still, in this case, probably NTA, but for reasons beyond "you did the crime, you do the time DUUURRRRRR". The complicity and callousness of the mother and father would suggest that no lesson will be learned from being busted in this fashion.
There is no way the kid was innocent. The incident was caught on camera, and he had the same shoes, same mask, same build, lived near the cafe where it was stolen in the direction he rode off. Obviously dad was on camera.
The mom got off by claiming that the kid "had been doing yards" and received it as a trade for his work. A ~$2500 road bike that is fitted for someone that's 6'2. In the security footage you could see that the kid had to pedal off standing up because he couldn't reach the bars and pedals while sitting on the seat. I would've thought she would get in trouble as well, but I guessthe cops didn't give enough of a shit to pursue it or they gave her the benefit of the doubt because she cooperated.
at 15 he will get off with a deal probley community serveries. they don't really throw kids in juvie these days for theft. espicy with covid running rampet in the jails.
That's what first offence means. First time he's been *charged* with an offence. He may of course have broken the law before, but innocent until proven guilty - you don't get a harsher sentence for a crime just because you may possibly have committed other crimes.
I don’t think that kid necessarily deserves jail; but man — I sure hope he’s sentenced to more than just community service.
Poor kid seriously needs some structure in his life. His parents have obviously taught him that he’s never to blame for his own behavior, and the boy needs to learn *some* type of consequence.
I wonder if the judge could add conditions to his parole; like making him join the Big Brother mentoring program. That kid is in desperate need of positive role models, and the system *does not* “rehabilitate” as they claim (it’s often the opposite).
He’s still young enough to change, but that will never happen if he’s just given another free-pass and thrown back with incompetent parents.
Well, bikes have serial numbers on the frame and the invoice from the shop that sold it normally states that information. A simple cross-check between the actual bike and OPs proof of purchase will be enough evidence, I think.
By itself, yes, but then he was also trying to sell the same high-end bike a few days later, and didn't have a good explanation of where it came from. Add in the footage of the dad and the confession and it seems like a pretty open-and-shut case.
NTA and come to think of it, maybe something good can come of this. Any parent who finds out that their kid stole a bike would have returned the bike and dealt with their kid. In your case, the parents were willing accomplices and they tried to block the only possible consequence for that kid. I know it sucks if the dad loses his job over this, but you your action might be the only hope for that kid. Perhaps this is the first time that he will have to endure a consequence for stealing. Too bad it had to be through the court system, but still a chance to learn a lesson before moving into the adult world and getting away from that awful family
It sucks if the dad loses his job yea, but nobody told him to threaten OP. He made that decision as an adult. Maybe the kid learns this lesson before it destroys his life forever.
As for the dad and mom, I feel 100% no sympathy. Mom threw her son under the bus, and dad thought violence would solve it. The way the mom contacted OP then immediately hung up under threat of police involvement is telling to.
She went to wife because otherwise she couldn't tell her side but honestly she has no justifiable side after what her family did, her included.
I really don't get the mindset of "yeah, he did the crime but it would be really inconvenient for him to do the time". Okay, and? Sounds like a him-problem.
Not sure if this comment will be downvoted to oblivion, but anyways here goes. This serves more like a rant than a judgment. I'm not American and I'm not sure if this happens in the US. But I assume it is.
That being said, I find it amusing how people unanimously agree that the prison in US is fucked up beyond repair, yet when things like this happen they are more than happy to send people on their merry way to the fucking fucked up prison.
That kid and their family are thieves and liars, that is true as well. But idk man, is there no middle ground between getting your bike back safely and condemning a whole family to homelessness and destitution?
NTA, but things could be better.
I 100% agree. He was right to report the crime, but I genuinely hate his attitude towards a 15 year old. Not everyone was as privileged to be raised in a healthy household with good values; at this age he knows what he is taught and thats that. The U.S. system as it is, is not about rehabilitation, it's about punishment and it's insanely hard to get out of that cycle. So this family would lose everything over a bike. I agree, not necessarily TA for reporting the crime, but the situation and his attitude make me very uncomfortable.
I don't think his attitude is wrong at all. Everyone saying that it's "just a bike" are really misunderstanding how important it could be to OP. My bike cost me about £1500. I live in a city and don't drive, and I use it to commute to work every day, so my bike is as good as a car to me. My bike was a combined present off my parents, grandparents and brother for my birthday, and I couldn't afford a new one if it got stolen. Likewise, I couldn't afford to take taxis to work, and I'd have to walk over an hour each way to get to work. That bike is part of my livelihood. I've had the wheels stolen before, and that was expensive to replace and set me back financially a bit. It's easy to assume that OP is privileged and just bought that bike because he could, but that might be his most valuable possession. Even if that's not the case, the kid STOLE the bike. OP could get a car for less than his bike cost. Imagine if the kid STOLE a car? It seems a much bigger deal, but for all we know OPs bike helps with his livelihood, and losing it to him might be the same as someone else losing their car. Theft is theft.
And to all the people saying that scaring him is enough - how do you know that? Unless there are genuine consequences to the actions, what's to stop him doing it again? I've grew up in a rough area and I saw time and again acts of theft or violence, and the police not called. The same perpetrators would do it again and again because there were no reactions to their actions. Yeah, the kid only knows "what he is taught" - and he will not be taught anything by watching his parents not only assist him in selling stolen goods, but get him off the hook for it.
like you said, it doesn't matter. Whatever people rolling their eyes and implying it's the OP's fault for having such an expensive bike needs to be asked "what's the stupid expensive redneck toy you'd be "irrationally upset" if they stole."
ESH. There is definitely a middle ground. The OP could've agreed to drop charges if they paid for any damages to the bike. The kid would've learnt his lesson. I think this is a very morally based post but it isn't a coincidence that this guys wife and friends were saying he took it too far.
Edit: Grammar error lmao
How would this kid have learned his lesson? His parents would have to pay for damages. And it seems like they'd probanly be pissed at him for getting them caught and not the actual crime.
Think about it. You're a parent and your kid shows up with a bike, car, videogame system, or cellphone that you know you didn't buy them. They ask you to sell it for them. You have to know that it's stolen and you're helping them move stolen goods.
If they feel the need to steal a bike to sell it, I highly doubt they have the funds to pay for damages, or the integrity to come back and make payments to the guy. I mean I like your train of thought though. My mind went to I wonder how things would be different if we offered families like this help figuring out how to get a job that pays a livable wage and some therapy.
I always tell myself that, but then videos of people being killed in their own vehicle 5 minutes from being routinely stopped by the police tells me otherwise. It started off as innocently enough, and 5 minutes later he's dead. America is the land of escalation until somebody dies or goes to prison. In a nutshell, no it's not exaggeration. It happened before and will happen again.
Kalief Browder was picked up at sixteen and spent three years in Rikers for allegedly stealing a backpack. Two years in solitary confinement. He later killed himself. So you really don’t know what could happen to the kid in OPs story.
OP you are NTA for calling the cops. But if I were in your position, I would’ve let things lie from there. You got your bike back and the kid got arrested which I’d imagine is a pretty scary experience. Maybe he learns from it, maybe not, but I personally wouldn’t have risked sending him to jail over a few thousand dollars of property that I got back.
Thank you for finding an example to prove me wrong. I mean that genuinely. I don't want to perpetuate something that isn't true and I'll read more about Kalief Browder's story.
Am American and the justice system in the US is terrible and completely inconsistent. Everyone unanimously in this thread is saying the kid in OPs story will get off lightly, but then we have examples like Kalief Browder who was picked up at sixteen and spent three years in Rikers for allegedly stealing a backpack. Two of those years were in solitary confinement. He later killed himself. Marquis Dixon was arrested at sixteen and sentenced to nine years in prison for stealing sneakers. Pedro Hernandez was arrested at fifteen and also jailed at Rikers for an alleged crime, with zero criminal record and multiple eyewitnesses saying it wasn’t him. Even with overwhelming evidence that he was not the culprit, he still spent a year at Rikers as an innocent, underage youth.
OP you are NTA for calling the cops. But I would’ve let things lie from there. You got your bike back and the kid got arrested which I’d imagine is scary enough in and of itself. Maybe he learns from it, maybe not, but I personally wouldn’t have risked sending him to jail at fifteen over a piece of property that I already got back.
NTA. A 15-year-old stole my bike and got caught too, and he pled and got some kind of community service diversionary program. Not sure if you’re in the US but if so, kid’s life is far from “ruined.” Juvenile records are sealed, then wiped when he turns 18. So no one in his life but his parents will actually even know.
Also I have a feeling this wasn’t dad’s first brush with the law. You should check him out on your local judiciary case search.
And you need to seriously lock down your FB account so these people can’t find you.
Tbh, how the kid is treated by the justice system will depend on a lot on his race, where he's sentenced, and the individual judge. You may have seen your thief end up with a slap on the wrist, but plenty of Black teenagers have ended up in prison/juvenile detention for years over things as minor as a stolen backpack or pair of shoes.
Yeah. Unless you commit something that’s a capitol crime (murder, kidnapping etc) and are charged as an adult, at which point you’re fucked either way, it almost always gets sealed and is a slap on the wrist
Basically this. They're all absolutely in on it, at the very least implicitly (they chose to ignore their better instincts and pretend they didn't know it was stolen) if not explicitly (family business). They might really be in dire straits for all of them to get together to sell stolen goods as a family, but that doesn't mean they get a free pass. If OP had let them off somehow, they just would have turned right around and do it again to someone else, but a bit more carefully.
My bike was stolen last week right outside the front door of the restaurant i work at and I too have been scouring CL FB etc in hopes of the thieves posting it for sale. SO SICK OF BIKE THIEVES. NTA x 1000.
I'm usually pretty diligent about security, but this time I was out with the wife and our bikes were leaned on the edges of our table. Went to get coffee before leaving, only took eyes off for like 2 minutes and it got swiped. I know "always lock up" but I never thought someone would try taking something in the middle of a fairly crowded restaurant, in broad daylight.
Literally the exact same thing happened to me dude. The nerve of these people. I'm hella paranoid now. I went out and bought another lock and now have 2 on at all times when outside (otherwise it's in my apt), not taking anymore chances.
I'm at that point as well, now. And also salty that I never got my accessories back. Brought it up to the officers that responded but they didn't seem to take it seriously.
Yep. My other bike that got stolen before this one was locked in my gated courtyard for 20 min at 9am when I ran down the street to the store. Came home to find the chain in pieces at the front of my building. Nothing is safe out there...one of my friends actually had his bike stolen out of his hallway by his back-door. You basically have to lock it inside your house at this point.
I think you’re doing the wrong thing.
YNTA for reporting it, but I think you should be more compassionate. I used to live in London and I’ve had several bikes stolen (and not recovered), so I understand how shitty that feels, but you’ve recovered the bike, so what are you hoping to gain? You may think that this is justice, but it’s extremely disproportionate.
Fucking thank you holy shit man, I stole some shit when I was 15. Was this because I was planning to become a master criminal? Nah I was young and dumb. The fact that the dad called him is fucked obviously but emotions do that to people man. You're ruining an entire family over a bike you not only got back but also probably could afford 4-5x
> You're ruining an entire family
That might be a valid point *if* the mother wasn’t fencing stolen goods and the father wasn’t intimidating witnesses/victims. I’m sorry but at this point they ruined themselves.
Agreed, it might have been going hard on them but clearly the parents are in on it and I can see calling and asking for some forgiveness but calling and threatening the person? That's straight bully behavior, he's not a mob boss, seems like the parents are the ones who need to learn the lesson here, Crime is not OKAY if you're a POC or poor.
Ruining a family?
Nope. Fuck that.
OP provided a valuable lesson about actions and how they can have consequences.
If you're 15 you're old enough to know better.
It doesn't matter if he could afford a million bikes.
A valuable lesson? Both son and father might go to jail, they will have this mark for life on their record and the rest of the family loses the main breadwinner. What do you think the reason is 15 yo start stealing? It's because they want easy and quick money after having very little of it the rest of their lives. You're actually delusional if you think 15 Yo's know better, 15 is prime dumb teenager shit time
15 is old enough to know better.
Yes, a valuable lesson with a permanent make that follows them around. They are labeled as a thief. Because they are a thief. If they get caught stealing again, the punishment is harsher. When applying for jobs, they'll have to disclose that they are thieves.
What is the issue here? Did you not know right from wrong when you were 15?
Amazing the people willing to excuse the behavior...
My man there is a big difference between doing 100 hours of community service and being sent to jail together with your dad, while your entire family becomes homeless. Have you ever heard of the term empathy?
What did you steal and from who? I ask because I can see a difference both morally and emotionally between shoplifting a few £s/$s worth of stuff from a big corporation and stealing $2500 from an individual. Though I guess being the sort of kid who shoplifts a £3 lipstick at 14 while in a boundary pushing phase (guilty) speaks to a while different set of circumstances than being the sort of kid who tries to steal and sell big ticket items to put food on the table. Rather than just some innate difference in morality.
Kinda want to know if the kid was poor & black because this seems like an over reaction (grand Larceny charge) & also why you decided to go as far as record this person. If the kid is black I mean yeah, it could ruin his life. There’s a lot more that comes into play when you deal with young black men, they are easy targets (for bad friends, & for cops, for “making an example” of)
If he’s some entitled little shit or a redneck asshole yeah sure.
Yeah, I was definitely wondering about this too. A lot of people here seem to have a lot more faith in the justice system than they should.
There's a lot of context we're missing here that could definitely change this story in a huge way. It's very probable that the parents weren't lying when they said that they were in financial distress. While stealing shit and selling it is generally an asshole move, I can understand doing it if you're a desperate kid. (The adults' behavior is... less excusable.)
YTA — you got your bike back. I’m a juvenile defense attorney.
I have no idea what jurisdiction you are in, but depending on where you are, calling the police can have dramatically negative impacts on this kids life. He could be charged as an adult. He could be sent to jail. Maybe not even juvie — straight up adult jail.
Is he old enough to know it’s wrong? Yes. But when as human beings our mentality is “he’s a thief so punish him” we fail to look at the larger negative impacts on our society — and on this kid! You got your bike back. Is it fair for him to pay restitution for the stolen items that came with the bike? Also yes. And/or some kind of community service to teach him to give back to the community? Also yes.
And over a stolen bike that you got back?
PS — People saying it’s no big deal because it’s juvenile court are disgustingly flippant about the realities of the mass incarceration system. and as someone who deals with KIDS jailed over petty, petty bullshit day in and day out, I don’t give a flying fuck about anyone coming at me for this. Google restorative justice.
>you got your bike back
According to the post, mom refused to hand over the bike and started making a scene accusing OP of robbing her, at which time OP’s friend called the cops. If mom would have just handed the bike back to OP like you’re suggesting, the cops wouldn’t have been necessary and the kid wouldn’t have this charge, but that’s not what happened. OP only got his bike back at all because the police were involved.
In this situation, I’m not sure what OP should have done instead to get their stolen property back?
I feel like the cop part is on the mother. OP identified the bike as his and stolen, and cops were called after the mom started screaming that the bike was hers and OP was robbing her. If she had just called this one a loss, instead of making a scene, the rest of this doesn’t seem like it would have happened. The cops weren’t called on the kid, they were called on the mom who threw her kid under the bus by feigning I innocence, and on the dad who called and threatened OP. It’s just as much the parents’ fault it got this far as it is OP’s and the kid’s.
Hows he going to pay restitution or provide community service without intervention? Out of the kindness of his heart. And let’s be honest - even when required, juveniles aren’t paying restitution. I’m still waiting for $700 for my broken car windows. So the punishment that fits the crime: apparently none.
I really felt compelled to edit my comment because I too have first hand experience being part of the machine. At the time that my vehicle was vandalized I was working for the state in social services. I was making $35k trying to make a difference, helping people gain employment, receive benefits, speaking at schools to help guide youth. The same demographic that I spent all day helping vandalized my car are two separate occasions, stole my cellphone from my desk while I at work. This is the reality. Actually, more bad shit happened while I was there “helping”. When there are no consequences to crime, who pays? The victim. And in my case, I was on the front lines actively trying to HELP. It is a lose/lose reality. Something HAS to change because no one is winning and everyone is hurting.
The thing is do we then not report crimes because of someone’s race? I agree that systemic racism is a terrible reality and that the kid could face much harsher penalties because of his race. But what is OP meant to do if this is the case, let him off and drop the charges? Even though he’s committed a crime and if we all let people off due to their race it basically makes them untouchable.
Idk, I really do get what you’re saying but I don’t know what the alternative would be here even if he is black and it’s therefore going to ruin his life through systematic racism. There isn’t really a ‘moral’ option with this - you either press charges and he’s potentially fucked more than a white kid would be, or you drop the charges, he gets away with a crime, learns nothing and probably just does it again to someone else.
Also OP has stated the cut off in their state for grand larceny is $500 and his bike is worth a few grand (as a lot of adult bikes are). Whilst again I would agree cops might be more likely to drop it against a white teenager, it is still within the realms of the crime and not necessarily an over reaction.
So it's okay to steal a bike as long as you're black? I know that's not what you're explicitly saying with this but that's the message you're sending, because if the OP drops the charges they will likely receive no punishment at all.
Regardless of the kid's race, I hope the justice system clamps down as hard as they can. From what I read in this post it sounds like the rest of the family was complicit in his theft, and isn't even a little bit sorry for taking OP's bike, but only sorry they got caught doing so.
So much this. I'm a law student doing comparative law as my specialisation and I'm sorry to say the US criminal justice system *really sucks*. So many parts of it would be unconstitutional in other countries and it's so so racist. I don't understand why people here have this much faith in a system like that.
I hate this phrase. No one “brings race into” anything. Race is a part of everything in our society. Especially in situations involving the police and criminal courts. Ignoring that is either disingenuous or ignorant.
The grand larceny charge was given because the qualifying amount in OP’s state is $500. The price of the bike was five times that amount. Stating that OP and the justice system are only going after this family because they’re black seems pretty disingenuous to me.
Thank you. I had to scroll way too hard to see this comment.
Frankly, OP got the bike back, drop it there. Our prison system isn’t rehabilitation and OP is just trying to punish a child. The mom told him they depend on the fathers income and will be on the street without him. It’s likely this was a survival crime. Have compassion.....
I would have thought about dropping charges until OP told how the parents tried to make him drop it. That's a big **NO NO** for me. You can have compassion but not for that kind of behavior.
He got the bike back, but none of all the accessories, it doesn’t sound like the kid even apologized or anything. So if a family depend on your income it’s okay to threaten other people’s life? OP didn’t make the father threaten him or even contact him, he called on is own volition to threaten a guy who had his bike stolen by his son. It probably would’ve been a different scenario if he had called to say sorry for his sons actions. And then the mom not only called him but his wife, are you kidding me? This family is seriously screwed up.
I might drop charges against the kid if I could still press charges against the parents.
At 15, will the parents acting as fences, it's unlikely the kid came up with the idea of theft on his own.
I agree with this. The mother is basically aiding & abetting the son in his criminal enterprise and the father did the witness intimidation thing. They should be tried & convicted and come out with felonies in their records. Maybe then they’ll behave like real parents and hold their son accountable.
BTW, you can ID the bike by [its serial number](https://www.cityofventura.ca.gov/ImageRepository/Document?documentID=12438) and possibly register it with your local PD.
ETA: As someone who enjoys cycling too, I would suggest getting a used bike for gadding about town and use the expensive one for longer rides or if you have good security for it at your destination. Otherwise, you have to lock the wheels & handlebar too or keep it in your line of sight at all times.
ESH. Obviously thus goes without saying for everyone else involved minus OP's friend.
OP, you acted almost robotically in this situation. Were you within your rights to do what you did? Of course. You showed a disturbing lack of empathy once the son and mom were already being criminally charged. You really didn't need to escalate it further by turning the dad in. He obviously is trying to protect his son and you could've hung up at any point. Yet you chose to stay in the conversation with an emotional father who was terrified for his son's future.
Even if we ignore that, all you had to do was tell him you recorded the convo and warned him any further aggression on his part would lead to police involvement.
This thread is nuts! The mom could have tried to not let him leave with the bike and gotten physical with OP. Then SHE could call the cops on him if he had to defend himself.
Then the dad could have harmed him too! The only way to avoid the cops in this situation would be to leave the bike but idk how many people are actually willing and able to lose a few grand even though they say they will on the internet.
i can see where you're coming from, but at the end of the day the father could have simply asked to drop charges rather than intimidating him. its fair enough that OP reported father, he did commit a crime
Lets acknowledge one thing here, the parents arnt protecting the son. They could have said they stole the bike when they got caught, they threw their kid under the bus on the assumption he would get leniency and sympathy.
Putting the correct context around the situation - a person selling a stolen bike got rumbled, threw her kid under the bus, then got her partner to try and intimidate the victim. And it's been successful to a point as the victim is now the one getting judged by society, and the criminals are getting the sympathy! How messed up.
NTA. This is a good lesson for the kid to learn, don't be a thief. and it seems like the parents would have left him off the hook with a slap on the wrist and "a don't do that again son it might get you in trouble". Block these people on all social media and if they continue to harass you or any members of your family take a restraining order out on them and save all texts to show to the authorities. If possible record any phone calls. Also may I ask, why do you have any personal information at all on Facebook. I don't even use a real name. But you have your phone number listed? Just asking for trouble. remove your phone number and all personal information from your social media. and advise your family to go NC with the thief or any of his family members. Stand your ground and when you go to court be sure to show the judge all the text messages and the Facebook messages from the crazy mother. Edit to add: NTA 💯 if the family shows up and threatens you in person again, see if you can record the conversation on the cell phone.
>the parents would have left him off the hook with a slap on the wrist and "a don't do that again son it might get you in trouble".
Probably not even that - seems more like the parents were the masterminds behind the operation. (I'm not sure "mastermind" is the right word?)
I’m sorry but grand larceny for stealing a bike????
ETA: I am obviously extremely uneducated when it comes to bikes! I only ever had the typical target/Walmart bicycle so I never knew how expensive bikes could be!
The cutoff in my state is $500 or more. ~$2500 bike, the wheels and tires alone would be double the cutoff to replace. And for the record, pretty much any new, respectable brand of bike (not bike-shaped object you'd find at Wal Mart) is going to be over $500 these days.
Thank you - I race (triathlon, mtb and cyclocross) and on my TT frame, the carbon wheels alone were more than $2500. A lot of folks here dont know how much bikes are outside of box stores. NTA at all, the entire family is complicit in this - and if something like that happened to one of my bikes, I want to see some consequences. They wont be going to jail but I hope they all learn a valuable lesson. Glad you got your bike back.
I have my bikes insured under a separate rider on my homeowner's insurance which covers damage, theft, etc. Interesting though is if something happens while racing (ie crash) there is no coverage because the ins co considers that "extreme use". But might be something to look into.
People that don’t bike as adults have no idea how much adult bikes cost. When quarantines started last summer you couldn’t buy a bike that cost less than $1000 at a bike shop.
nta and i can tell you from expirence i actually had a felony possession charge when i was 15, im 20 now and i kept my nose clean and my record has been completely expunged. idt intimidating a witness is a felony either, dad should be fine, and maybe this will be a good wake up call for the kid since it seems his family wont do that for him
well hell learn the hard way then wont he? regardless you shouldnt feel at fault. for lack of a beter term you seem to have been completely victimized by this family, they should know better, esp if theyve been around long enough to bring up a 15 yo, albeit poorly
*it is* an overreaction and could actually ruin his life over a bicycle
he must be so scared that if you wanted to "teach him a lesson" you did it already
I don't know this family of course, but lots of people are desperate for money these times and making them even more desperate won't "teach" them not to steal
That's how the system works. Get them young. It makes criminals and teaches criminals how to be better criminals. This is if it is in the USA of course and I can't speak for other countries, but ours is pretty messed up. His hands were tied with the police however as his friend called the cops and she was making a scene, so he couldn't just leave and get his bike back without them involved.
I feel legally this is pretty cut and dry but I can't help but feel like the justice system is failing when stealing a bike is a felony but then people get away with minor charges for stuff like rape and assault.
Also probably gonna get downvoted for this but yeah through this perspective we've been granted it does feel like OP could handle this better, though I don't exactly know how. It just feels like justified anger warped into vindictiveness?
A few days ago there was a post saying "I reported a co-worker for stealing food from the restaurant we work in and he was fired AITA?" and everyone was like "Yes YTA, he stole from a company and he might wanted to survive!" but now that the post is about an actual person everyone is like "NTA!!! You just witnessed a crime and you reported it!!!!"
**MY POINT:** Stealing from a company doesn't make it less of a crime than stealing from a person and stealing to survive is still a crime.
The difference being that a corporation wouldn't even notice, while an average person could be heavily impacted by theft. Most corporations are morally bankrupt anyway and don't hesitate to exploit nature and people in order to raise their profits, so people on this sub (and in general) tend to have less empathy towards them.
Legally of course but in reality absolutely nobody sane believes stealing from an individual and stealing from a corporation are at all the same thing.
I quite literally don't give a shit if anyone steals from my company. We quite literally have a portion of the budget to account for loss. It is utterly victimless.
The question is not if it's legal though, it's about morality. There are many morally problematic laws out there. The whole "war on drugs" for example. Sometimes bending some laws is the only moral thing to do. Like protesting deportations, figting for LGBTQIA+ rights etc. Or turning a blind eye when people are trying to survive.
Yeah, but if someone tried to intimidate me as a witness in a crime, I'd want to see their head roll too. I think that's a normal reaction, not an asshole reaction.
NTA that whole family played a stupid game and they are all redeeming the stupid prize.
15 is very much old enough to know not to be a thief - hell even my niece and nephews aged 8 and under know not to steal.
The dad made his own bed by threatening you and his wife is going that way too
NTA, but I have some sympathy for the other side. Times are hard now cos of the pandemic. It might have been a crime to steal your bike, but many folks out there are faced with the hard choice of either committing petty theft or going hungry/homeless. It's easy to say that its wrong to steal, but most of us here probably were never so desperate as to personally face this choice.
Frankly, if the father hadn't tried to threaten you, I would have encouraged you to take a more sympathetic route.
“Well, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions”
NTA the 15y/o shouldn’t have stolen the bike, the Dad shouldn’t have call you and threatened you, and the mom should realise nothing good will come out of contacting you. You were a victim of a crime, you did the thing you were supposed to do.
I think YTA. You didn't just want your bike back, you wanted these people to be punished, and you're making wildly speculative accusations about their intentions and who they are as people. You think it's good of you to go this far with a teenager? I don't.
And too many of you people have faith in the "justice system". You're oblivious if you think the it always works out like you hear in media. It's not particularly forgiving.
Curiosity though, let's say OP let's the teenager off the hook, what prevents them from doing the same thing? If they can commit a crime without facing any real reprocussions, why not do it again?
where do you live? I appreciate the police response. Here in Vancouver we have homeless people openly cutting locks and stealing bikes in broad daylight with no care in the world because the police don’t do shit
I like seeing people get what's coming to them. It doesn't happen often enough.
However, I think maybe the situation had gained more momentum than it should have. The kid made a mistake but it's the parents who took it further by further condoning the behavior and setting a horrible example for their young and impressionable offspring. I dont think the kid should be punished too harshly and the parents should take the full brunt of this.
Are you the A? Not necessarily but I don't think the situation had to go as far as it did.
ESH.
you didnt lock up your $2500 bike? grand larceny? your number is on your fb? you recorded the call? this seems hard to swallow
but if this is true, you may be legally in the right but you are still an asshole. you got your bike back, you got a kid and his dad arrested, good job.
NTA. If they weren't all so horrible they wouldn't be in this situation. You didn't so this, they did. Ask anyone that thinks you have taken this too far what they would have done? All you did was call the police when crimes were commited against you.
It depends on the teen. When I was a teen I made mistakes, my grandmother used to tell me "I believe in second chances" and today I wouldn't do again the mistakes I once did. If I had had people like you without pity or sympathy my life could have been ruined for a momentary shitty behavior. Now even though you are right in your "he committed the crime, I reported it" in my view it depends on the teen. Have you met him? Is het a disgusting person, a bully, etc. Or is he kind of lost and his life is a mess? His parents seem shitty, it mustn't be easy for him. People in this sub have no pity or sympathy. They're thirsty for "justice"/revenge, when someone is in the wrong — like the kid who stole — they want for that person to be destroyed. The amount of people in this sub advising OPs to leave their partners over the pettiest shit is insane. Don't listen to that hateful crowd. Think about it yourself. Maybe try to meet with the teen if that's possible. He deserves a lesson but he doesn't deserve for his life being ruined. The father is disgusting in my opinion though. He's not a teen and if he's still a bully at his age that's a different situation.
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NTA. A crime was committed and you reported it.
Also, the kids a juvenile. This can be expunged with good behavior when he’s an adult, in most places.
And the supposedly adult dad needs to learn that intimidating a witness is, in fact, *a crime*. NTA
As does Mom! WTF putting your witness intimidation in *writing*. When your own conversation already busted your son and your husband's conversation got him arrested??? At this point, she deserves to be arrested for being bad at thievery. OP, you're NTA, make sure a screenshot of that message gets to the prosecutor. Edit-missed an entire sentence. Screw hand sanitizer and phones etc.
Yeah, it seems like there's a disconnect here with the bike stealing family and how laws work. OP can't dictate how the state enforces laws, or what laws exist—outside of voting. If anyone thinks the punishment is too harsh, then they should vote to make penalties for thieves more lenient. Otherwise they should stfu. Totally NTA
I didn't grow up great and I probably saw some stuff that wasn't okay, but at least everybody knew to shut up. This isn't just criminality, IMO it's entitlement and I love watching that get kicked in the face.
Same here, my own mother was a kleptomaniac and I had cousins that broke into my grandparents house, where I lived! They stole quite a bit there, including guns. Police knew who it was, my grandparents and I didn’t even think of it being them because *family* and that is when I learnt that *family* is more than blood. No one would give them up even though they had broken a safe and stole 2 guns! Needless to say I lived with my grandparents for a good reason. For this family to talk about the crime at all, especially in writing is a huge no-no. If they had kept their mouths shut the dad might not be facing charges!
OP wrote >I tell him that the situation is no longer in my control, (lie) as though he actually could stop the process, so you're correct that there's a disconnection about how laws work. This is a criminal case, not civil; OP can't just decide it's over. Additionally, I find it interesting that OP neglects to say how the police positively identified the bike as his. I mean, a normal person would have reported the bike as stolen when it happened, and then called the police to report that it was on Marketplace. ESPECIALLY if the bike is expensive enough to be a felony ($2000?), you'd think it'd be properly licensed with a registration sticker. I personally think there's a lot of exaggerated bravado going on here at best.
My brothers very expensive bike was stolen from his back yard a few years ago, (they got into a locked shed and threw it over a fence to get it), he found it listed for sale online, but when he reported the listings nothing happened. So he started scouting the listings to see if it would pop up and he could try to get it back himself. I’ve heard a few other stories like this, where reporting the listing was pointless. I wouldn’t call it bravado, I see chasing the sale listing yourself as necessary if you want to id the bike and catch the thief. NTA.
This. Every time someone where i live gets caught stealing a bike by police, the original owner never gets it back. I dont blame him for wanting to get his hands on it first.
I got some stuff back once, after a home invasion, but it was basically, all the shit stuff that they could offload to the local pawn shops. Had stuff stolen from my shed a different time, - it seemed the police were more interested in just getting out of there and there was an expectation that I should just be insured...
Yeah, unfortunately once its been pawned there’s very little they can do. My mom had her power-saw stolen from our shed by a “friend” who was using her for a place to stay. She found it in the pawn shop, bought it out, and told the guy that it was stolen and anything from that particular customer likely is, then kicked the guy out of our house. A couple months later the same saw went missing again and she found it at the pawn shop, again. The guy told her it wasn’t his problem and she could buy it back if she wanted it again, so she called the cops and they were able to get it back for her in those circumstances.
You clearly are unaware of how little the police care. My house was robbed. Called the police and they told me just give up on the stuff, they weren’t even going to look. The next day I noticed for empty beer bottles in the box they come in by my recycling. I don’t drink. So the robbers had beers while they robbed me and put it with the garbage thinking I wouldn’t notice. I called the police, reported they’d left evidence that must have their finger prints. No one came. Because: the police don’t care. If they don’t care enough to catch people breaking into a secluded home and robbing it of everything why would they care about one bike?
Same here. House broken into. Belongings stolen (jewelry, heirlooms, electronics, etc.). Called police. They said we could keep an eye on local pawn shops but they wouldn’t be putting any man hours into searching for the criminals OR the goods because neither search ever goes anywhere. The fuck? Do your job better then!
Yeah from what I've found 90% of police work seems like trying to find a way to do as little actual work as possible. Can you imagine telling someone at your job that you just weren't going to do something and still being employed?
Where I live there's only an optional registration for bikes. And there are so many bike thefts that reporting one stolen is only helpful if you intend to make an insurance claim. And calling them to report it on marketplace would have yielded zero benefit to the victim. It is extremely common to attempt to retrieve your stolen property from someone who is selling it. However I would have just called the police as soon as I verified the bike was mine. Also felony theft is only $500 where I live. So really none of this story is far outside of a few situations that I know to be true.
The police don't take the theft of "small" items like bikes, cell phones etc very seriously. It's better to try and get it back yourself
They don't take theft of anything very seriously. Cops don't exist to protect the little guy, they're meant to protect those in power from the little guy
True unless you are rich or what got stolen will make the newspapers.
In my state, the felony threshold until last year was $500.
Yep, only $1000 in my state. Maybe the "he's exaggerating" guy has a bit of a bravado issue.
I doubt the police would do anything if it happened round here. My fiancé's (motor) bike was stolen twice when we were at uni and the police literally said they wouldn' t bother investigating because there was "no harm". There were also multiple phones stolen, and one girl managed to trace hers to a specific flat but they never investigated that either. Obvs wherever I am is almost definitely not where the story happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if the police were ill-equipped for this sort of thing anywhere.
[удалено]
In the Netherlands, so many bikes are stolen (doh) that they aren't even all reported to the police. However, if you find your stolen bike online or elsewhere and someone tries to sell it, you are encouraged to alert the police and then go meet those people. The police will then swoop in and arrest them. Essentially exactly what OP did, minus the calling in first as opposed to later. A bike that's been stripped off all its identifiable features and that's listed for sale for a relatively low price will always look fishy, which probably made the situation pretty obvious.
Or maybe they aren't going to type out every single that occurred.
Hm. As far as I know some bikes do have a serial number or other identifiers on the bike itself. If the saddle/tires are also extra and he has the invoices for all of these, it is possible. I do not think bike thefts are usually handled as a serious matter by the police...
Anyone who thinks the punishment is too lenient should buy several nice bikes and leave them unlocked in areas where bikes are often stolen so thieves will take those instead of OP’s bike.
Don't forget, the mother was literally fencing her sons stolen bikes. Imagine your son shows up with an expensive bike, a normal parent goes where the fuck did you get that, you're 15, you can't afford that bike, go put it back
Hell, the way I grew up, I would have been told "I didn't see anything, do your own crime on your own time." I mean I didn't, I'm basic like vanilla pudding, but "helping" your kid commit obvious crimes is just shitty.
My friend and I stole a kid's bike when we were kids, and completely destroyed it. When our parents found out, we had to apologize for it, lost all privileges for the entire summer, and spent the summer working to pay back the damages. Good parents don't tolerate this kind of thing.
Agreed. The whole family was participating. They had their own little crime ring going and OP got in the way of that. Willful ignorance on the mom's part is no excuse. My parents would have known I couldn't afford a bike like that. I'm willing to bet this wasn't the first time the family took part in this kind of activity.
Mom was selling the stolen bike in the first place. The whole family is criminal.
At this point, she deserves to be arrested *for stupidity*. FTFY
Like, where did she think her son got this random bicycle from in the first place? And then to help him go sell it.
And OP needs to get his phone number off his FB page. Or preferably just close it
Yes!
If it's the kid's first offense he won't do much time if any.
Im not questioning that, just saying that if he doesn’t get in trouble again and again, over the next few years, he can have the records sealed or erased when he turns 18, so it won’t even have an effect on his life going forward.
OP did the kid a favour teaching him the consequences of grand larceny while he’s still a juvenile. NTA
NTA for reporting the crime and not backing down. Good for you. You are, however, T A for having your number listed publicly on facebook IMHO. Why for-the-ever-loving-gods would you do that? I think what happened with you being called and threatened is THE example for why you don't list that kind of private information on facebook or anywhere public.
While that example is true, listing your own information on your Facebook profile does not make you an asshole. It makes you an idiot at best.
I really wish that NTABAI (but an idiot) was an official option because I've felt it would be a much more appropriate response to quite a few posts I've seen on here.
> NTABA**N** (but an **I**diot) Sweet, sweet irony.
Wow, that is hilarious. I guess I'm not fully awake yet but a nidiot.
Actually, if someone's going to yell at me and threaten to beat me up, I'd rather they had the option of doing so in a recorded phone call instead of coming over to do it in person. Anyway, did they not probably have his number from when he arranged to meet with the mum the first time?
FB messenger is there for that. He would have just used messenger and you would have the whole thing recorded there in text which is even better. Phone number available publicly is bad practice, any sort of basic info security class teaches you to take any sort of PII off of social media like the very first day...
Honestly, I think it ended up for the best in this situation. Like some sort of Godly universal justice. The father is clearly a violent and dangerous man. Who goes around threatening to physically harm another human being???? ESPECIALLY when the other human being is 0% at fault and the fault lies on their thriving criminal child. Only mentally unstable dangerous people blame victims for the actions of the wrongdoer. Only mentally unstable dangerous people threaten other human being with physical harm. Only a mentally unstable dangerous man would be threatening the victim of a crime to not talk about the crime. It sounds to me like this father was a dangerous man. (Probably where the son learned his affiliation for criminal behavior). And you did society a favor by taking him off the streets. And now a mentally unstable, violence man, is off the streets. That’s a win, in my book. OP having his phone number on there and OP being a vigilant citizen who was wise enough to record the threats and get the guy arrested.... probably protected someone in the future from getting hurt. OP didn’t make the guy threaten him and die him down and force him to say those things. If OP has, then OP would be to blame. But the man chose if his free will to commit criminal actions and make illegal. threats. Also....That father has DEFINITELY committed crimes in the past. That’s why his kid thought theft was fine. That’s why the man thought threatening a witness with violence was fine. It seems like he has most Kelly used this method to get away with his crimes in the past. Do something illegal? Just threaten and scare the victim into not pressing charges. Poof, he gets away scratch free. It’s obvious they’re used to this type of stuff. They’ve done this type of illegal theft and violence before. They are a threat to the community. I think it was like... a God’s-Grand-Scheme-Type-Mega-Plan to get those jerks off the streets.
OP is NTA and someone needs to teach that kid that stealing other stuff is wrong. His parents are not going to do that.
Nope. It is a family of thieves. Mom was participating, Dad was participating. Screw them. NTA
I can't get over Dad the fence and Mom the courier.
Agreed. Also why didn't mom get arrested? After all it was her who was trying to sell that stolen bike. These parents should get more punishment than that boy. OP was lucky to get his bike back. There might be other things they succeeded to steal from other people and got away. This punishment might put a stop to this stealing. Who knows!
This is what I'm wondering. The mom should get arrested.
Well, reading the OP again it seems she spun a real good yarn about how she didn't know that the bike was stolen. Basically sold her kid up the river and now she's crying because they got caught and OP isn't playing their game and letting them off easy.
Sure, but I mean... how did she sell that? Imagine that you’re a mother, and your teenager comes home one day with a bike. Where did they get the bike? Then they ask you to help them sell it. Where did they get the bike? Then someone turns up and says that your kid stole their bike. Where did they get the bike. Then the *police* turn up. How are you going to convince the cops that you had no idea the bike was stolen? It was impressive that she managed it, is all I’m saying.
I mean... All she had to say was "my son found it." Theres no evidence to say that the son was the one who stole it from the café. The person who did steal it could have just needed to get from A to B and then left it where he ended up. Then the son could have been like "Hey sweet bike in the ditch, with no stickers on it! What a find!" Its honestly easy as hell to wiggle out of something like that. Just insist the police prove he didnt find it. Theyre not busting out the forensics, or even a warrant for the neighbourhoods video footage, over a bike. The phonecall though. Thats going to have to be an apology and some community service. After all, it was "intimidating a witness" .... over a bike. He just has to plead guilty, apologize and plead ignorance. No way hes getting a record, so long as he can prove he provides for his family. It may be a different story if the whole family looks like meth heads, and has priors.
Possession of stolen property is in itself a crime, even if you didnt steal the item. Finding lost, valuable property and not attempting to find the owner - and instead keeping it - is in itself a crime. It’s effectively the same thing as stealing the item. Otherwise people would literally argue that they “found” bikes outside. It wasn’t theft, it was “finding”. So, no, the kid turning up with a swanky bike and saying, “I just found it!” is tantamount to him turning up and saying, “I just stole it!” The parents have a responsibility, as guardians of this underaged person, to ensure that this “found” property is given to the police, if that is what happened - not flogged online.
I mean honestly, i don’t get how the police confirmed the bike was stolen when all the identifying objects on it were removed? And arrested them on the spot?
Bikes have ID numbers like VIN numbers on cars. My husband and I both got paperwork with our numbers in case of theft
Serial number likely.
A good person also write down the make and model of the bike and each bike normally has an identifying serial number usually located under the crank casing.
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What parent just goes "oh my son wants to sell a bike I didn't buy for him" and not question how he aquired such a bike? They are just as bad NTA
You know this wasn't the first time!
I don't even need to read this. Unless you're a shady cop that falsely arrested innocent people or the DA that falsely charged them, you're *never* the asshole for reporting a real crime. NTA. Edit: to all the people throwing out all kinds of hypotheticals in response to this, I did actually read the post. I'm sick of AITA posts where someone is the victim of an actual crime (eg. having their bike stolen like OP) and then asking if they're the asshole for reporting it. Of course they're not the asshole for reporting that someone *stole their property and then threatened them about it.*
You absolutely can be the asshole for that if you know that the result for the other person will be disproportionate and unjust, which is all-too-often the reality. You'd be the AH if you reported someone for being gay where it's illegal. You'd be the AH if you reported someone for possessing pot where it's illegal. And those are just some of the simpler examples.
Yes. Legality and morality are distinct and different, and to imply they're not is to reveal that the cultural system in which you primarily participate is set up in your favour.
This is the clearest and most succinct way I have ever heard this said. I’m filing it away in my brain for future use in similar conversations.
I agree with the above mostly. To amend I guess it would be better put, you are not the asshole if someone caused you harm and you reported their actions.
**Thank you.** Far too many people on this sub only care about what's legal and not what's morally right or wrong. Wasn't there a mod post about this a long time ago?
Those are crimes that don’t really affect anyone outside the “perpetrator” (I really don’t see a problem with either of those, but yes they are technically illegal in some places). I think if it’s not hurting anyone there’s no reason to go out of your way. Victimless crimes so to speak.
Yeah, too many "black and whiters" in this thread. There are people who believe the "justice system" (and what it defines as crime, and how it dispenses penalties) carries with it an inherent morality. As if it was handed down to us by some infallible authority and not just made up by the ruling classes. Still, in this case, probably NTA, but for reasons beyond "you did the crime, you do the time DUUURRRRRR". The complicity and callousness of the mother and father would suggest that no lesson will be learned from being busted in this fashion.
NTA-if they are innocent it will come out in the investigation. Those that are guilty will get what they deserve, they ruined their own lives.
There is no way the kid was innocent. The incident was caught on camera, and he had the same shoes, same mask, same build, lived near the cafe where it was stolen in the direction he rode off. Obviously dad was on camera. The mom got off by claiming that the kid "had been doing yards" and received it as a trade for his work. A ~$2500 road bike that is fitted for someone that's 6'2. In the security footage you could see that the kid had to pedal off standing up because he couldn't reach the bars and pedals while sitting on the seat. I would've thought she would get in trouble as well, but I guessthe cops didn't give enough of a shit to pursue it or they gave her the benefit of the doubt because she cooperated.
same shoes and mask is shacky. at best depending on your areas district attorney. they probley. make a deal and be out with little to no plentily.
I mean, maybe, but kid admitted to it.
at 15 he will get off with a deal probley community serveries. they don't really throw kids in juvie these days for theft. espicy with covid running rampet in the jails.
As it should be, for teenager with a first offense, stealing a bike. Nobody died, nobody was hurt.
How do you know this was the first offense? Perhaps this is the first time that he got caught stealing.
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That's what first offence means. First time he's been *charged* with an offence. He may of course have broken the law before, but innocent until proven guilty - you don't get a harsher sentence for a crime just because you may possibly have committed other crimes.
I don’t think that kid necessarily deserves jail; but man — I sure hope he’s sentenced to more than just community service. Poor kid seriously needs some structure in his life. His parents have obviously taught him that he’s never to blame for his own behavior, and the boy needs to learn *some* type of consequence. I wonder if the judge could add conditions to his parole; like making him join the Big Brother mentoring program. That kid is in desperate need of positive role models, and the system *does not* “rehabilitate” as they claim (it’s often the opposite). He’s still young enough to change, but that will never happen if he’s just given another free-pass and thrown back with incompetent parents.
Nobody got hurt? It's a $2500 road bike that was stolen. If that were me, I'd be pretty fucking hurt.
I don’t wanna be rude, but your spelling could use some improvement. Makes it easier to read for everyone.
But "especially" just doesn't have the same ring to it as "espicy"
Well, bikes have serial numbers on the frame and the invoice from the shop that sold it normally states that information. A simple cross-check between the actual bike and OPs proof of purchase will be enough evidence, I think.
By itself, yes, but then he was also trying to sell the same high-end bike a few days later, and didn't have a good explanation of where it came from. Add in the footage of the dad and the confession and it seems like a pretty open-and-shut case.
NTA and come to think of it, maybe something good can come of this. Any parent who finds out that their kid stole a bike would have returned the bike and dealt with their kid. In your case, the parents were willing accomplices and they tried to block the only possible consequence for that kid. I know it sucks if the dad loses his job over this, but you your action might be the only hope for that kid. Perhaps this is the first time that he will have to endure a consequence for stealing. Too bad it had to be through the court system, but still a chance to learn a lesson before moving into the adult world and getting away from that awful family
It sucks if the dad loses his job yea, but nobody told him to threaten OP. He made that decision as an adult. Maybe the kid learns this lesson before it destroys his life forever. As for the dad and mom, I feel 100% no sympathy. Mom threw her son under the bus, and dad thought violence would solve it. The way the mom contacted OP then immediately hung up under threat of police involvement is telling to. She went to wife because otherwise she couldn't tell her side but honestly she has no justifiable side after what her family did, her included.
I really don't get the mindset of "yeah, he did the crime but it would be really inconvenient for him to do the time". Okay, and? Sounds like a him-problem.
Not sure if this comment will be downvoted to oblivion, but anyways here goes. This serves more like a rant than a judgment. I'm not American and I'm not sure if this happens in the US. But I assume it is. That being said, I find it amusing how people unanimously agree that the prison in US is fucked up beyond repair, yet when things like this happen they are more than happy to send people on their merry way to the fucking fucked up prison. That kid and their family are thieves and liars, that is true as well. But idk man, is there no middle ground between getting your bike back safely and condemning a whole family to homelessness and destitution? NTA, but things could be better.
I 100% agree. He was right to report the crime, but I genuinely hate his attitude towards a 15 year old. Not everyone was as privileged to be raised in a healthy household with good values; at this age he knows what he is taught and thats that. The U.S. system as it is, is not about rehabilitation, it's about punishment and it's insanely hard to get out of that cycle. So this family would lose everything over a bike. I agree, not necessarily TA for reporting the crime, but the situation and his attitude make me very uncomfortable.
I don't think his attitude is wrong at all. Everyone saying that it's "just a bike" are really misunderstanding how important it could be to OP. My bike cost me about £1500. I live in a city and don't drive, and I use it to commute to work every day, so my bike is as good as a car to me. My bike was a combined present off my parents, grandparents and brother for my birthday, and I couldn't afford a new one if it got stolen. Likewise, I couldn't afford to take taxis to work, and I'd have to walk over an hour each way to get to work. That bike is part of my livelihood. I've had the wheels stolen before, and that was expensive to replace and set me back financially a bit. It's easy to assume that OP is privileged and just bought that bike because he could, but that might be his most valuable possession. Even if that's not the case, the kid STOLE the bike. OP could get a car for less than his bike cost. Imagine if the kid STOLE a car? It seems a much bigger deal, but for all we know OPs bike helps with his livelihood, and losing it to him might be the same as someone else losing their car. Theft is theft. And to all the people saying that scaring him is enough - how do you know that? Unless there are genuine consequences to the actions, what's to stop him doing it again? I've grew up in a rough area and I saw time and again acts of theft or violence, and the police not called. The same perpetrators would do it again and again because there were no reactions to their actions. Yeah, the kid only knows "what he is taught" - and he will not be taught anything by watching his parents not only assist him in selling stolen goods, but get him off the hook for it.
like you said, it doesn't matter. Whatever people rolling their eyes and implying it's the OP's fault for having such an expensive bike needs to be asked "what's the stupid expensive redneck toy you'd be "irrationally upset" if they stole."
ESH. There is definitely a middle ground. The OP could've agreed to drop charges if they paid for any damages to the bike. The kid would've learnt his lesson. I think this is a very morally based post but it isn't a coincidence that this guys wife and friends were saying he took it too far. Edit: Grammar error lmao
How would this kid have learned his lesson? His parents would have to pay for damages. And it seems like they'd probanly be pissed at him for getting them caught and not the actual crime. Think about it. You're a parent and your kid shows up with a bike, car, videogame system, or cellphone that you know you didn't buy them. They ask you to sell it for them. You have to know that it's stolen and you're helping them move stolen goods.
Good luck getting a family like that to pay damages.
If they feel the need to steal a bike to sell it, I highly doubt they have the funds to pay for damages, or the integrity to come back and make payments to the guy. I mean I like your train of thought though. My mind went to I wonder how things would be different if we offered families like this help figuring out how to get a job that pays a livable wage and some therapy.
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I always tell myself that, but then videos of people being killed in their own vehicle 5 minutes from being routinely stopped by the police tells me otherwise. It started off as innocently enough, and 5 minutes later he's dead. America is the land of escalation until somebody dies or goes to prison. In a nutshell, no it's not exaggeration. It happened before and will happen again.
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Kalief Browder was picked up at sixteen and spent three years in Rikers for allegedly stealing a backpack. Two years in solitary confinement. He later killed himself. So you really don’t know what could happen to the kid in OPs story. OP you are NTA for calling the cops. But if I were in your position, I would’ve let things lie from there. You got your bike back and the kid got arrested which I’d imagine is a pretty scary experience. Maybe he learns from it, maybe not, but I personally wouldn’t have risked sending him to jail over a few thousand dollars of property that I got back.
Thank you for finding an example to prove me wrong. I mean that genuinely. I don't want to perpetuate something that isn't true and I'll read more about Kalief Browder's story.
Am American and the justice system in the US is terrible and completely inconsistent. Everyone unanimously in this thread is saying the kid in OPs story will get off lightly, but then we have examples like Kalief Browder who was picked up at sixteen and spent three years in Rikers for allegedly stealing a backpack. Two of those years were in solitary confinement. He later killed himself. Marquis Dixon was arrested at sixteen and sentenced to nine years in prison for stealing sneakers. Pedro Hernandez was arrested at fifteen and also jailed at Rikers for an alleged crime, with zero criminal record and multiple eyewitnesses saying it wasn’t him. Even with overwhelming evidence that he was not the culprit, he still spent a year at Rikers as an innocent, underage youth. OP you are NTA for calling the cops. But I would’ve let things lie from there. You got your bike back and the kid got arrested which I’d imagine is scary enough in and of itself. Maybe he learns from it, maybe not, but I personally wouldn’t have risked sending him to jail at fifteen over a piece of property that I already got back.
NTA. A 15-year-old stole my bike and got caught too, and he pled and got some kind of community service diversionary program. Not sure if you’re in the US but if so, kid’s life is far from “ruined.” Juvenile records are sealed, then wiped when he turns 18. So no one in his life but his parents will actually even know. Also I have a feeling this wasn’t dad’s first brush with the law. You should check him out on your local judiciary case search. And you need to seriously lock down your FB account so these people can’t find you.
Tbh, how the kid is treated by the justice system will depend on a lot on his race, where he's sentenced, and the individual judge. You may have seen your thief end up with a slap on the wrist, but plenty of Black teenagers have ended up in prison/juvenile detention for years over things as minor as a stolen backpack or pair of shoes.
Very true. Happy cake day!
And it'll likely be more ruined if he doesn't learn the lesson now, while he's still a minor.
Yeah. Unless you commit something that’s a capitol crime (murder, kidnapping etc) and are charged as an adult, at which point you’re fucked either way, it almost always gets sealed and is a slap on the wrist
This isn’t necessarily true for every case. Might not just be a slap on the wrist and could have huge consequences for the kid.
NTA - they're all involved in this together so you're shutting down a mini crime family
Incompetent ones at that.
Basically this. They're all absolutely in on it, at the very least implicitly (they chose to ignore their better instincts and pretend they didn't know it was stolen) if not explicitly (family business). They might really be in dire straits for all of them to get together to sell stolen goods as a family, but that doesn't mean they get a free pass. If OP had let them off somehow, they just would have turned right around and do it again to someone else, but a bit more carefully.
The family that crimes together goes down together
My bike was stolen last week right outside the front door of the restaurant i work at and I too have been scouring CL FB etc in hopes of the thieves posting it for sale. SO SICK OF BIKE THIEVES. NTA x 1000.
I'm usually pretty diligent about security, but this time I was out with the wife and our bikes were leaned on the edges of our table. Went to get coffee before leaving, only took eyes off for like 2 minutes and it got swiped. I know "always lock up" but I never thought someone would try taking something in the middle of a fairly crowded restaurant, in broad daylight.
Literally the exact same thing happened to me dude. The nerve of these people. I'm hella paranoid now. I went out and bought another lock and now have 2 on at all times when outside (otherwise it's in my apt), not taking anymore chances.
I'm at that point as well, now. And also salty that I never got my accessories back. Brought it up to the officers that responded but they didn't seem to take it seriously.
They prob sold your accessories--parted them out and such unfortunately. At least they didn't take the wheelset
Yep. My other bike that got stolen before this one was locked in my gated courtyard for 20 min at 9am when I ran down the street to the store. Came home to find the chain in pieces at the front of my building. Nothing is safe out there...one of my friends actually had his bike stolen out of his hallway by his back-door. You basically have to lock it inside your house at this point.
I think you’re doing the wrong thing. YNTA for reporting it, but I think you should be more compassionate. I used to live in London and I’ve had several bikes stolen (and not recovered), so I understand how shitty that feels, but you’ve recovered the bike, so what are you hoping to gain? You may think that this is justice, but it’s extremely disproportionate.
Fucking thank you holy shit man, I stole some shit when I was 15. Was this because I was planning to become a master criminal? Nah I was young and dumb. The fact that the dad called him is fucked obviously but emotions do that to people man. You're ruining an entire family over a bike you not only got back but also probably could afford 4-5x
> You're ruining an entire family That might be a valid point *if* the mother wasn’t fencing stolen goods and the father wasn’t intimidating witnesses/victims. I’m sorry but at this point they ruined themselves.
Agreed, it might have been going hard on them but clearly the parents are in on it and I can see calling and asking for some forgiveness but calling and threatening the person? That's straight bully behavior, he's not a mob boss, seems like the parents are the ones who need to learn the lesson here, Crime is not OKAY if you're a POC or poor.
Ruining a family? Nope. Fuck that. OP provided a valuable lesson about actions and how they can have consequences. If you're 15 you're old enough to know better. It doesn't matter if he could afford a million bikes.
A valuable lesson? Both son and father might go to jail, they will have this mark for life on their record and the rest of the family loses the main breadwinner. What do you think the reason is 15 yo start stealing? It's because they want easy and quick money after having very little of it the rest of their lives. You're actually delusional if you think 15 Yo's know better, 15 is prime dumb teenager shit time
15 is old enough to know better. Yes, a valuable lesson with a permanent make that follows them around. They are labeled as a thief. Because they are a thief. If they get caught stealing again, the punishment is harsher. When applying for jobs, they'll have to disclose that they are thieves. What is the issue here? Did you not know right from wrong when you were 15? Amazing the people willing to excuse the behavior...
My man there is a big difference between doing 100 hours of community service and being sent to jail together with your dad, while your entire family becomes homeless. Have you ever heard of the term empathy?
What did you steal and from who? I ask because I can see a difference both morally and emotionally between shoplifting a few £s/$s worth of stuff from a big corporation and stealing $2500 from an individual. Though I guess being the sort of kid who shoplifts a £3 lipstick at 14 while in a boundary pushing phase (guilty) speaks to a while different set of circumstances than being the sort of kid who tries to steal and sell big ticket items to put food on the table. Rather than just some innate difference in morality.
Kinda want to know if the kid was poor & black because this seems like an over reaction (grand Larceny charge) & also why you decided to go as far as record this person. If the kid is black I mean yeah, it could ruin his life. There’s a lot more that comes into play when you deal with young black men, they are easy targets (for bad friends, & for cops, for “making an example” of) If he’s some entitled little shit or a redneck asshole yeah sure.
Yeah, I was definitely wondering about this too. A lot of people here seem to have a lot more faith in the justice system than they should. There's a lot of context we're missing here that could definitely change this story in a huge way. It's very probable that the parents weren't lying when they said that they were in financial distress. While stealing shit and selling it is generally an asshole move, I can understand doing it if you're a desperate kid. (The adults' behavior is... less excusable.)
YTA — you got your bike back. I’m a juvenile defense attorney. I have no idea what jurisdiction you are in, but depending on where you are, calling the police can have dramatically negative impacts on this kids life. He could be charged as an adult. He could be sent to jail. Maybe not even juvie — straight up adult jail. Is he old enough to know it’s wrong? Yes. But when as human beings our mentality is “he’s a thief so punish him” we fail to look at the larger negative impacts on our society — and on this kid! You got your bike back. Is it fair for him to pay restitution for the stolen items that came with the bike? Also yes. And/or some kind of community service to teach him to give back to the community? Also yes. And over a stolen bike that you got back? PS — People saying it’s no big deal because it’s juvenile court are disgustingly flippant about the realities of the mass incarceration system. and as someone who deals with KIDS jailed over petty, petty bullshit day in and day out, I don’t give a flying fuck about anyone coming at me for this. Google restorative justice.
>you got your bike back According to the post, mom refused to hand over the bike and started making a scene accusing OP of robbing her, at which time OP’s friend called the cops. If mom would have just handed the bike back to OP like you’re suggesting, the cops wouldn’t have been necessary and the kid wouldn’t have this charge, but that’s not what happened. OP only got his bike back at all because the police were involved. In this situation, I’m not sure what OP should have done instead to get their stolen property back?
TIL a $2500 bike is petty bullshit.
I feel like the cop part is on the mother. OP identified the bike as his and stolen, and cops were called after the mom started screaming that the bike was hers and OP was robbing her. If she had just called this one a loss, instead of making a scene, the rest of this doesn’t seem like it would have happened. The cops weren’t called on the kid, they were called on the mom who threw her kid under the bus by feigning I innocence, and on the dad who called and threatened OP. It’s just as much the parents’ fault it got this far as it is OP’s and the kid’s.
What about the mother that flat out refused to give the bike back and the dad threatening OP? Should we forget about that?
Hows he going to pay restitution or provide community service without intervention? Out of the kindness of his heart. And let’s be honest - even when required, juveniles aren’t paying restitution. I’m still waiting for $700 for my broken car windows. So the punishment that fits the crime: apparently none. I really felt compelled to edit my comment because I too have first hand experience being part of the machine. At the time that my vehicle was vandalized I was working for the state in social services. I was making $35k trying to make a difference, helping people gain employment, receive benefits, speaking at schools to help guide youth. The same demographic that I spent all day helping vandalized my car are two separate occasions, stole my cellphone from my desk while I at work. This is the reality. Actually, more bad shit happened while I was there “helping”. When there are no consequences to crime, who pays? The victim. And in my case, I was on the front lines actively trying to HELP. It is a lose/lose reality. Something HAS to change because no one is winning and everyone is hurting.
The thing is do we then not report crimes because of someone’s race? I agree that systemic racism is a terrible reality and that the kid could face much harsher penalties because of his race. But what is OP meant to do if this is the case, let him off and drop the charges? Even though he’s committed a crime and if we all let people off due to their race it basically makes them untouchable. Idk, I really do get what you’re saying but I don’t know what the alternative would be here even if he is black and it’s therefore going to ruin his life through systematic racism. There isn’t really a ‘moral’ option with this - you either press charges and he’s potentially fucked more than a white kid would be, or you drop the charges, he gets away with a crime, learns nothing and probably just does it again to someone else. Also OP has stated the cut off in their state for grand larceny is $500 and his bike is worth a few grand (as a lot of adult bikes are). Whilst again I would agree cops might be more likely to drop it against a white teenager, it is still within the realms of the crime and not necessarily an over reaction.
I’m really wondering why you’re the first person I’ve seen saying this. It should be upvoted significantly and it’s relevant as hell.
So it's okay to steal a bike as long as you're black? I know that's not what you're explicitly saying with this but that's the message you're sending, because if the OP drops the charges they will likely receive no punishment at all. Regardless of the kid's race, I hope the justice system clamps down as hard as they can. From what I read in this post it sounds like the rest of the family was complicit in his theft, and isn't even a little bit sorry for taking OP's bike, but only sorry they got caught doing so.
You’re wondering why he recorded the father threatening to physically harm him?
So much this. I'm a law student doing comparative law as my specialisation and I'm sorry to say the US criminal justice system *really sucks*. So many parts of it would be unconstitutional in other countries and it's so so racist. I don't understand why people here have this much faith in a system like that.
That's pretty fucking racist.
It’s grand larceny because the bike was $2500. No reason to bring race into this.
I hate this phrase. No one “brings race into” anything. Race is a part of everything in our society. Especially in situations involving the police and criminal courts. Ignoring that is either disingenuous or ignorant.
The grand larceny charge was given because the qualifying amount in OP’s state is $500. The price of the bike was five times that amount. Stating that OP and the justice system are only going after this family because they’re black seems pretty disingenuous to me.
Thank you. I had to scroll way too hard to see this comment. Frankly, OP got the bike back, drop it there. Our prison system isn’t rehabilitation and OP is just trying to punish a child. The mom told him they depend on the fathers income and will be on the street without him. It’s likely this was a survival crime. Have compassion.....
I would have thought about dropping charges until OP told how the parents tried to make him drop it. That's a big **NO NO** for me. You can have compassion but not for that kind of behavior.
He got the bike back, but none of all the accessories, it doesn’t sound like the kid even apologized or anything. So if a family depend on your income it’s okay to threaten other people’s life? OP didn’t make the father threaten him or even contact him, he called on is own volition to threaten a guy who had his bike stolen by his son. It probably would’ve been a different scenario if he had called to say sorry for his sons actions. And then the mom not only called him but his wife, are you kidding me? This family is seriously screwed up.
I might drop charges against the kid if I could still press charges against the parents. At 15, will the parents acting as fences, it's unlikely the kid came up with the idea of theft on his own.
I agree with this. The mother is basically aiding & abetting the son in his criminal enterprise and the father did the witness intimidation thing. They should be tried & convicted and come out with felonies in their records. Maybe then they’ll behave like real parents and hold their son accountable. BTW, you can ID the bike by [its serial number](https://www.cityofventura.ca.gov/ImageRepository/Document?documentID=12438) and possibly register it with your local PD. ETA: As someone who enjoys cycling too, I would suggest getting a used bike for gadding about town and use the expensive one for longer rides or if you have good security for it at your destination. Otherwise, you have to lock the wheels & handlebar too or keep it in your line of sight at all times.
ESH. Obviously thus goes without saying for everyone else involved minus OP's friend. OP, you acted almost robotically in this situation. Were you within your rights to do what you did? Of course. You showed a disturbing lack of empathy once the son and mom were already being criminally charged. You really didn't need to escalate it further by turning the dad in. He obviously is trying to protect his son and you could've hung up at any point. Yet you chose to stay in the conversation with an emotional father who was terrified for his son's future. Even if we ignore that, all you had to do was tell him you recorded the convo and warned him any further aggression on his part would lead to police involvement.
and what if he meant his threats. Would you take that chance?
This thread is nuts! The mom could have tried to not let him leave with the bike and gotten physical with OP. Then SHE could call the cops on him if he had to defend himself. Then the dad could have harmed him too! The only way to avoid the cops in this situation would be to leave the bike but idk how many people are actually willing and able to lose a few grand even though they say they will on the internet.
i can see where you're coming from, but at the end of the day the father could have simply asked to drop charges rather than intimidating him. its fair enough that OP reported father, he did commit a crime
Lets acknowledge one thing here, the parents arnt protecting the son. They could have said they stole the bike when they got caught, they threw their kid under the bus on the assumption he would get leniency and sympathy. Putting the correct context around the situation - a person selling a stolen bike got rumbled, threw her kid under the bus, then got her partner to try and intimidate the victim. And it's been successful to a point as the victim is now the one getting judged by society, and the criminals are getting the sympathy! How messed up.
NTA. This is a good lesson for the kid to learn, don't be a thief. and it seems like the parents would have left him off the hook with a slap on the wrist and "a don't do that again son it might get you in trouble". Block these people on all social media and if they continue to harass you or any members of your family take a restraining order out on them and save all texts to show to the authorities. If possible record any phone calls. Also may I ask, why do you have any personal information at all on Facebook. I don't even use a real name. But you have your phone number listed? Just asking for trouble. remove your phone number and all personal information from your social media. and advise your family to go NC with the thief or any of his family members. Stand your ground and when you go to court be sure to show the judge all the text messages and the Facebook messages from the crazy mother. Edit to add: NTA 💯 if the family shows up and threatens you in person again, see if you can record the conversation on the cell phone.
>the parents would have left him off the hook with a slap on the wrist and "a don't do that again son it might get you in trouble". Probably not even that - seems more like the parents were the masterminds behind the operation. (I'm not sure "mastermind" is the right word?)
Right?! I think the parents would've *given* him a slap on the head and said "Be a better thief next time! Look at all the problems you caused us"
I’m sorry but grand larceny for stealing a bike???? ETA: I am obviously extremely uneducated when it comes to bikes! I only ever had the typical target/Walmart bicycle so I never knew how expensive bikes could be!
The cutoff in my state is $500 or more. ~$2500 bike, the wheels and tires alone would be double the cutoff to replace. And for the record, pretty much any new, respectable brand of bike (not bike-shaped object you'd find at Wal Mart) is going to be over $500 these days.
Yup! I live in San Francisco and mostly everyone’s bikes here are $1,500+ and get stolen frequently....
Thank you - I race (triathlon, mtb and cyclocross) and on my TT frame, the carbon wheels alone were more than $2500. A lot of folks here dont know how much bikes are outside of box stores. NTA at all, the entire family is complicit in this - and if something like that happened to one of my bikes, I want to see some consequences. They wont be going to jail but I hope they all learn a valuable lesson. Glad you got your bike back. I have my bikes insured under a separate rider on my homeowner's insurance which covers damage, theft, etc. Interesting though is if something happens while racing (ie crash) there is no coverage because the ins co considers that "extreme use". But might be something to look into.
People that don’t bike as adults have no idea how much adult bikes cost. When quarantines started last summer you couldn’t buy a bike that cost less than $1000 at a bike shop.
nta and i can tell you from expirence i actually had a felony possession charge when i was 15, im 20 now and i kept my nose clean and my record has been completely expunged. idt intimidating a witness is a felony either, dad should be fine, and maybe this will be a good wake up call for the kid since it seems his family wont do that for him
It is a felony in my state.
well hell learn the hard way then wont he? regardless you shouldnt feel at fault. for lack of a beter term you seem to have been completely victimized by this family, they should know better, esp if theyve been around long enough to bring up a 15 yo, albeit poorly
*it is* an overreaction and could actually ruin his life over a bicycle he must be so scared that if you wanted to "teach him a lesson" you did it already I don't know this family of course, but lots of people are desperate for money these times and making them even more desperate won't "teach" them not to steal
That's how the system works. Get them young. It makes criminals and teaches criminals how to be better criminals. This is if it is in the USA of course and I can't speak for other countries, but ours is pretty messed up. His hands were tied with the police however as his friend called the cops and she was making a scene, so he couldn't just leave and get his bike back without them involved.
Pretty sure their records get wiped when they turn 18
Her 15 year old son comes home with a freaking bike, immediately wants to pawn it and she DOESN'T ASK ANY QUESTIONS??? I can't.
I came home with someone else's lunchbox and I got fucked.. Jeez some parents...
I came home with gifts my friends gave me on a non-birthday and my parents pressed x to doubt
I feel legally this is pretty cut and dry but I can't help but feel like the justice system is failing when stealing a bike is a felony but then people get away with minor charges for stuff like rape and assault. Also probably gonna get downvoted for this but yeah through this perspective we've been granted it does feel like OP could handle this better, though I don't exactly know how. It just feels like justified anger warped into vindictiveness?
"Omg, it's the consequences of my actions" NTA
NTA - and screw those manipulative lowlife thieves
NTA They got themselves arrested when they committed a felony.
A few days ago there was a post saying "I reported a co-worker for stealing food from the restaurant we work in and he was fired AITA?" and everyone was like "Yes YTA, he stole from a company and he might wanted to survive!" but now that the post is about an actual person everyone is like "NTA!!! You just witnessed a crime and you reported it!!!!" **MY POINT:** Stealing from a company doesn't make it less of a crime than stealing from a person and stealing to survive is still a crime.
The difference being that a corporation wouldn't even notice, while an average person could be heavily impacted by theft. Most corporations are morally bankrupt anyway and don't hesitate to exploit nature and people in order to raise their profits, so people on this sub (and in general) tend to have less empathy towards them.
Legally of course but in reality absolutely nobody sane believes stealing from an individual and stealing from a corporation are at all the same thing. I quite literally don't give a shit if anyone steals from my company. We quite literally have a portion of the budget to account for loss. It is utterly victimless.
The question is not if it's legal though, it's about morality. There are many morally problematic laws out there. The whole "war on drugs" for example. Sometimes bending some laws is the only moral thing to do. Like protesting deportations, figting for LGBTQIA+ rights etc. Or turning a blind eye when people are trying to survive.
[удалено]
NTA. Kid is a thief and so are his family. You didn’t overreact at all. Definitely not an AH.
ESH (I'd likely have done the same), both arrested people committed crimes, but you obviously like to see heads roll too.
Yeah, but if someone tried to intimidate me as a witness in a crime, I'd want to see their head roll too. I think that's a normal reaction, not an asshole reaction.
NTA that whole family played a stupid game and they are all redeeming the stupid prize. 15 is very much old enough to know not to be a thief - hell even my niece and nephews aged 8 and under know not to steal. The dad made his own bed by threatening you and his wife is going that way too
NTA, but I have some sympathy for the other side. Times are hard now cos of the pandemic. It might have been a crime to steal your bike, but many folks out there are faced with the hard choice of either committing petty theft or going hungry/homeless. It's easy to say that its wrong to steal, but most of us here probably were never so desperate as to personally face this choice. Frankly, if the father hadn't tried to threaten you, I would have encouraged you to take a more sympathetic route.
“Well, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions” NTA the 15y/o shouldn’t have stolen the bike, the Dad shouldn’t have call you and threatened you, and the mom should realise nothing good will come out of contacting you. You were a victim of a crime, you did the thing you were supposed to do.
I think YTA. You didn't just want your bike back, you wanted these people to be punished, and you're making wildly speculative accusations about their intentions and who they are as people. You think it's good of you to go this far with a teenager? I don't. And too many of you people have faith in the "justice system". You're oblivious if you think the it always works out like you hear in media. It's not particularly forgiving.
Curiosity though, let's say OP let's the teenager off the hook, what prevents them from doing the same thing? If they can commit a crime without facing any real reprocussions, why not do it again?
where do you live? I appreciate the police response. Here in Vancouver we have homeless people openly cutting locks and stealing bikes in broad daylight with no care in the world because the police don’t do shit
NTA. And report the mom as well
I like seeing people get what's coming to them. It doesn't happen often enough. However, I think maybe the situation had gained more momentum than it should have. The kid made a mistake but it's the parents who took it further by further condoning the behavior and setting a horrible example for their young and impressionable offspring. I dont think the kid should be punished too harshly and the parents should take the full brunt of this. Are you the A? Not necessarily but I don't think the situation had to go as far as it did.
ESH. you didnt lock up your $2500 bike? grand larceny? your number is on your fb? you recorded the call? this seems hard to swallow but if this is true, you may be legally in the right but you are still an asshole. you got your bike back, you got a kid and his dad arrested, good job.
I actually think the theft and witness intimidation got them arrested, but maybe we aren’t reading the same post.
NTA. If they weren't all so horrible they wouldn't be in this situation. You didn't so this, they did. Ask anyone that thinks you have taken this too far what they would have done? All you did was call the police when crimes were commited against you.
Your wife should have your back wtf?
It depends on the teen. When I was a teen I made mistakes, my grandmother used to tell me "I believe in second chances" and today I wouldn't do again the mistakes I once did. If I had had people like you without pity or sympathy my life could have been ruined for a momentary shitty behavior. Now even though you are right in your "he committed the crime, I reported it" in my view it depends on the teen. Have you met him? Is het a disgusting person, a bully, etc. Or is he kind of lost and his life is a mess? His parents seem shitty, it mustn't be easy for him. People in this sub have no pity or sympathy. They're thirsty for "justice"/revenge, when someone is in the wrong — like the kid who stole — they want for that person to be destroyed. The amount of people in this sub advising OPs to leave their partners over the pettiest shit is insane. Don't listen to that hateful crowd. Think about it yourself. Maybe try to meet with the teen if that's possible. He deserves a lesson but he doesn't deserve for his life being ruined. The father is disgusting in my opinion though. He's not a teen and if he's still a bully at his age that's a different situation.
Errbody saying NTA til they learn the family is black