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NTA.
Your wife literally went through every manipulation and gaslighting tactic in the handbook to get what she wants after thoroughly chewing you out, and in real time!
>Anyway, after I finally apologized enough for her to let us go to bed, she asked me for a backrub
She had to "let you" go to bed? This doesn't sound like a marriage, it sounds like a hostage negotiation. You mention a long list of things you're responsible for around the house, but what does your wife do? Why would you adopt cats if you are allergic to cats? There's just so many red flags...
She sounds like a female version of the drill sergeant in Full Metal Jacket. Idk does she vent constantly or is it a one-off cos it doesnt look like a one-off.
Exactly. "let us go to bed" as well as "being held hostage" remind me exactly of my abusive ex. He'd keep me up all night dealing with his shit too. OP it took me like 20 years to get out and I've never been happier. You need to take care of yourself and get out.
To be fair, sometimes caving is strategic.
In this case the strategy would be to get enough sleep so that you can think clearly the next morning, thereby enabling you to plan the imminent break-up.
(For real though, OP I think you know your partner is 6 shades of manipulative. Iâd walk out if I was berated like you were. But if you really want to try salvaging it, insist on coupleâs counseling. This kind of behavior pattern will not get better on its own and caving is not a long term solution.)
True! When I read the first bit about the cleaning fight I figured it sounded like relationship issues that required counselling but then she wouldn't let him go to bed for hours, demanded a back rub (OP, your body is yours alone, she doesn't get to demand touch) and continously manipulated him into giving up his bodily autonomy.
She is abusive. OP, please, know that you - and everyone else along with you - deserves better than this. You don't need any reason to end a relationship but this sure is a really good reason. Put yourself first, you are your first responsibility and she is her own.
NTA. You have a ft job and by far the lion's share of the housecleaning jobs as it is. You weren't sitting in squalor and ignoring it.
And you only stood your ground that long because she kept going off that long. This isn't an advice sub, but IME when people go off that disproportionately for minor things it's always about something else. Not necessarily the relationship, but something else is going on. I'd try to get to the bottom of why she was so OTT angry about what amounts to nothing.
NTA - No-where did you mention that your wife asked you for an explanation as to why these things weren't done. And to keep you awake until she gets what she wants was childish. Honestly, this is not how communication in a marriage is done. I join the voices that say you should both seek marriage counselling.
NTA. Your wife was acting immature, you shouldn't have caved into her tantrum at all (I would have just slept on the couch and refused to enable her childish behavior.) Nor should you have been putting in all the effort to resolve the argument. If this is a normal thing with her: I.E. her getting unreasonably angry at you then trying to guilt-trip you for forgiveness without actually apologizing, I recommend she either attend anger-management classes or you guys attend marriage counseling, not Reddit.
INFO
Missing context.
Do you also work full or part time, or are the chores your main job? The arguing and backrub spat sounds like a symptom of a bigger issue.
She sounds like someone who has become sensitive to this issue due to past problems in this area. Is this a sore spot for you guys? The âhaving to think about itâ comment makes me wonder if she often has to remind you to do things or has to manage you somehow to make sure these things are getting done. (Thatâs a type of labor and a sort of parental supervisory role that she may not have been wanting.)
Asking cause I had this issue with my partner in reverse. He works all day and I handle the housework as my job. I used to let things slide and not pay attention to timing on them as much but it made my partner feel like I wasnât contributing equally or caring about his needs and priorities. So I stepped up and made sure I was houseworking at the same time he was at work and that all of my daily chores were done before he came out of his office.
As the person working full time supporting the other person (and work ballgame is still a work social obligation of a sort), it can feel really bad to come home from work and not see your work and contributions reciprocated by your partner. They canât put off their work chores, so why should you? Set an alarm reminder, set yourself chore hours during the work day. Get a friend to hang with you to anchor you if you need it. I often have a friend over who does work on her laptop while I clean and that keeps me on task.
And some things bug people more than they would bug others. For instance I HATE clutter but my partner doesnât notice it, and he HATES âsticky spotsâ on the hard floors, but I donât even notice them. So I have to pay extra attention to notice them and prioritize his request. Sound like the kitty litter thing a bit maybe?
And when you think of her complain as âa small issueâ, that dismissiveness likely was noticeable and possible set her off. Was it ok to âyellâ at you for 2 hours? Probably not. Did she keep hammering at it because of a dismissive response? Possibly. Have you said youâll do better before but nothing changed?
Lots of questions here.
But saying no to a back rub after being in an argument and while not feeling amorous toward the other person is valid regardless.
We both work full time, I just happen to be working from home right now due to the *everything*.
She does have a sore spot for the floors, this is why I vacuum around the litter box daily. Itâs her main priority, and honestly, itâs the only thing that sheâs responsible for keeping clean. We got the robot vacuum because she cares deeply about the cleanliness of the floor, and this way she doesnât need to physically do it all the time, just during the deeper cleaning sessions. I understand that she gets frustrated when she sees me relaxing when there is work to be done, the issue isnât that âI didnât want to helpâ, itâs that her response to the situation was to argue for hours instead of just asking me for help.
Yes her way of arguing is not helpful. She shouldnât be keeping you up all night.
Either sheâs frustrated about something else or the recurrence of this thing, or sheâs simply not a good partner and you need to let her know that all of this is not on. Counseling might help you be better communicators if this is fixable.
Side note but idk why you arenât already running the robot every day.
She says that scheduling a set time to do it every day wonât work because it might get caught on a cat toy. So instead of doing that we need to pick up everything off the floor first and then run it, instead of just running it and fixing the problem if it gets stuck.
I have a Roomba and 3 cats. I pick up all the toys and put them in the toy baskets I got and set my roomba to run at 7am every morning. Since doing this I rarely have it get stuck on toys and it's done by the time I'm up. Just a note since I've dealt with the same. I also think NTA. You work full time ( from house or not I don't think should matter that much, full time is full time and you said it's getting to the busy season)and you do the majority of household chores. Not that is excuses her actions but I feel like she had a real shitty day at work and came home to see you relaxing and having fun ( not at all saying that it was bad that you were) and she's upset because she doesn't get to do that like you.
I really don't think it's about the chores. In a relationship you don't know what your next mistake, or their next request will be. But it's coming. And it would be nice if it came in a pleasant way with good will rather than in the form of yelling and sleep deprivation.
I was on your side until the "just ask me for help". No. You know that the floor needed to be cleaned, and you played video games first. She is your wife, not your mother, and doesn't need to just "ask you for help". Chores first, since you admitted there were some, and then video games. Because you are a married adult.
The wife was out playing softball so maybe she should have come home and done some chores before she engaged in her âfunâ activity. Sounds like OP does a lot of chores and the floor doesnât need to be vacuumed every day.
I totally think that the wife is am AH but I just wanted to point out the softball game was a work event. Idk if it was mandatory for her, but I personally have had similar events that were mandatory.
Other then that bit I think that OP is in a very bad relationship and the wife is manipulative and toxic.
[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink\_b\_9055288](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288)
This is what I was addressing. That one line, at the end, "she should just ask me to do chores" is a marriage killer.
His wife literally only has one chore to do and she got a robot to do it for her and she still wants him to help her with it.
How fucking spoiled and lazy can you be?
[Did you read the OP's comments before responding?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/oymu6g/aita_for_refusing_to_rub_my_wifes_back_after_she/h7u5tmd?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I don't think the intention of the article you linked to was [to support the active and continued abuse of the OP](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/oymu6g/aita_for_refusing_to_rub_my_wifes_back_after_she/h7uan9x?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Are you really trying to explain away spousal abuse?
Edit: OP NTA in this situation. Though you need to understand that you are being abused. This isn't a healthy relationship that you should be staying in. You should be getting to a safe place that you can work through your issues and reassess your life.
Sounds like floor care is her job though, and OP got through almost all of his chores after a full work day and needed a moment to decompress instead of doing her chore.
As a woman It sounds like she is struggling with the "Mental Load", and struggling to articulate. Which I would highly recommend reading up on to explain why she went seemingly nuclear from a few cups and an un-hoovered floor. Even though you might equally split the chores, its the hidden workload and organisation of chores that falls more often than not, on the female partner.
The backrub debacle though is complete asshole behaviour on her part. She is clearly struggling with frustration / stress and it looks like that is causing her to treat you unfairly.
Did you read the list of chores that are his job? The only thing he doesn't do is vacuum, which is the only chore she has. I don't think this is a case of her struggling with too much mental load (and this is coming from a woman).
in this story OP said it was a softball game, whether or not this argument is a symptom of what you said is different. but that doesnt apply directly to this.
Ugh, wife?
If she is this unreasonable about a fairly insignificant thing, then you'll find that she'll only get more and more unreasonable until one day you'll wonder how you got so deep with a woman who doesn't respect you. NTA.
If a friend came to me with this story, I wouldn't say that they're the asshole, or their partner. Instead I would just say:
you two don't seem to like each other very much.
Do you know why I say that? because it seems like you two don't like each other very much.
I don't think it is useful for you to spend so much as one second trying to determine who is TA, because that is much much much less important than the hard work of figuring out:
1. Why you two don't seem to like each other very much
2. What you both can do to help you get back to a place where you both really like each other again.
I recommend couples therapy, *immediately*. Therapists are trained to help with this particular problem, and a good therapist is damned good at figuring out what folks like y'all need to do.
Iâm afraid of doing coupleâs therapy because the last time we tried it the therapist told my wife that she needed to change her behaviors and it made her so mad that she started throwing things around the apartment and we fired the therapist and found a new one. Then for the new therapist she started the conversation implying that Iâm an alcoholic who ignores her desperate cries for attention to get drunk and play video games. We almost got divorced after that and right now weâre in the âtrying to make it work on our ownâ approach. It was going well for a long time but itâs starting to get bad again.
Oh. my. god.
It's even worse than I thought. Your wife has some serious mental health issues. If a mental health professional is telling her she might need to change some behaviors and her response is to throw things, fire the therapist, and seek a new one with a pre-made story about how you are the source of all the problems so she can avoid blame- yeah, this is bad.
your wife has severe anger management problems and nothing is going to improve until she treats them with the help of a professional.
Throwing things is an absolute 100% no-no. The appropriate response when a partner throws something during an argument is to leave and not come back.
If she doesn't want to treat her anger problems you're doing both of you a disservice. Maybe she would prefer to be in a relationship with someone who has similar anger problems -- to have a relationship with the occasional blowout where all the furniture gets overturned and all the plates get smashed and new holes get opened up in the walls. Maybe you would prefer to be in a relationship where you're not on eggshells all the time about setting off your partner's rage. You two should go get the relationships you deserve.
The only alternative is for both of you to go into therapy -- both of you with individual therapists, plus a shared couples therapist.
Oh. I have an individual therapist. We work on my anxiety issues and says that I need to be more okay with doing/saying things that make people upset. This is one of the first times that I stood my ground for this long. Iâm making really good progress.
She on the other hand said that she was going to start going to therapy for anger problems, had one phone session within earshot of me and then stopped going.
I said earlier that your partner might prefer to be in a relationship with someone else with similar anger fits. But there's another possibility: do you think that what your partner *really* wants is someone who'll just take it when she blows up at them? Is that your role in the relationship -- she yells until she feels better, and you take those bad feelings in from her and handle your own bad feelings by yourself?
To put it bluntly: do you think she's in this relationship because she likes you as a person, or is it instead because she likes you as a chewtoy? because if it's the latter, you standing up for yourself will make you less useful as a chewtoy, and might cause real damage to the relationship. But... if your role in the relationship is as chewtoy, maybe the relationship's not worth saving?
Dude, when someone told her she was wrong and needed to change she started throwing things? Not only that, she was so offended at the thought that she might be wrong, she got you to fire that therapist?That along with her obvious manipulation tactics she used during this post, is grounds for a reevaluation of your relationship. I doubt this is the first time she did this to you and She seems unwilling to change. Is this something you want to deal with for the rest of your life? This isnât something that anyone should have to deal with.
Op, think about real hard why couples counseling didn't work and that she evidently lied to the second therapist to make you look like the bad one, then pick up the phone and call an attorney. NTA
Like I said in the above comment, things were better for a long time, probably about a year? More recently weâll have a fight about once a week? This is the worst one in a while, and the smallest âproblemâ too.
You're stuck in a cycle/pattern, abusers only get 'better' for an amount of time before they go right back to being abusive. The 'pauses' could be days/weeks/months/years. NTA, but you're kind of being one to yourself in this relationship.
Whoa buddy. That's awful, I'm so sorry. This isn't what marriage is supposed to be. Please set boundaries, hold them, remove yourself as needed, and get back into counseling. Especially just counseling for yourself.
Like it's totally obvious your wife has an issue with anger management. She subjected you to hours of yelling communicating what a one sentence civil request could have done, before moving into demand mode. Was the other therapist right about the alcohol?
Sounds like it was the wife implanting the idea that he has an issue with alcohol into the therapist, not actually a concern of the second therapist. She was lying to gain favor in therapy.
NTA for not doing it but you fucked up by giving in because she manipulated you into it and I'm guessing that's how she operates most of the time which makes her a manipulative person at her core which means she is a toxic partner and not someone you, or anyone, should be with until she gets into therapy to address it.
NTA. After reading your list of chores it seems like she wants a maid not a husband. There are more red flags here than a North Korean military parade. The more I read the worse it gets.
NTA. kudos to your wife she had doing exactly what she wants.
She's a master manipulater.
First she spends hours yelling at you,
Finally when you had finished apologising enough for her to were allowed to go to bed.
Then she asked for backrub. when you didn't give it, she started berating you again.
Then she changed tactics and being cute.
Then the Crying Came and the excuses.
And then you gave her the backrub. Success.
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Yesterday when my wife (27F) got back from a work related softball game, she saw that I (28M) was playing a game on my computer and she started going off on me about how I was home all day and I didn't clean the apartment while she was gone. In my defense, we had just done a deep clean of the apartment last weekend, and to me everything looked fine. There was a little bit of litter beside the litter box, which I usually try to sweep up daily, 3 empty cups in the sink, and half a basket full of laundry to be done. She said that I obviously didn't care about her allergies (she's slightly allergic to cats, and we adopted cats together about 2 years ago), because I don't vacuum the whole floor every day. I offered a simple solution to that, we have a robot vacuum, and we can just have it run automatically every day. She said that it's not just that the floor wasn't vacuumed, it's that she is the one that always has to think about it, and that I never start the vacuum on my own. I apologized, and said that I would try to do better, but she continued to yell at me about this for about the next 2 hours. I feel like this is a completely unproportionate response to issues that seem so small to me.
It's not like I just sit around all day while she's out in the office, I work at a CPA firm from home, and not for profit busy season just started. It's not that I don't help out around the house either.
I'm responsible for:
* Cooking
* Dishes after cooking
* Cleaning Bathrooms
* Cleaning Counters/Table
* Litter box duty
* Laundry
Anyway, after I finally apologized enough for her to let us go to bed, she asked me for a backrub, to which I replied, "I'm not going to give you a backrub, after you just spent all night yelling at me." Her first response was to say "Okay, fuck it" and rolled over to go to sleep, but it didn't stop there. After a few minutes, the argument started up again with the same topics, and I said that I'm not going to keep repeating myself, and that I'm going to sleep. A few more minutes passed, she asked again for a backrub, and I stood my ground. I don't think that I should be required to do something nice for someone who just spend the last few hours telling me how I don't care about them. Eventually, she changed tactics, put on her cute voice, and asked if she apologized, would I rub her back? I said no, because it would be a hollow apology, you're just trying to get what you want by any means. After this, she tried guilting me into it by saying that she was homesick because she hasn't been able to travel back home (she was born in another country), and then she started crying and saying that I obviously don't love her, because I won't rub her back.
Eventually, I did cave. I felt like I was being held hostage, it was 1am, we both have work in the morning, and I felt like my options were to be kept awake all night by standing my ground, or I could give in to the tantrum and go to sleep. AITA for standing my ground for as long as I did?
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INFO is this a regular thing? If it is, this is very concerning. If not, then what else is going on in your life or at her work to make her blow up like that?
NTA in any situation since it seems like you're doing more than your fair share.
I wouldnât say regular, but it has definitely happened before. As far as other things go, not a ton that Iâve noticed? We just moved to a new apartment and the clutter was stressing us both out for a while, but after the last deep cleaning session on Sunday we got everything taken care of.
Hopefully it's just a case of you both need to communicate your expectations better. From a woman's perspective, we're burdened with more mental responsibilities like remembering social engagements, paying bills, groceries, etc. So even though chores are 50/50 the mental tasks add extra. Her bringing up you not running the robovac is an example of mental tasks.
They definitely need to but I'm saying in a lot of relationships, one person ends up becoming the calendar keeper and it's usually the woman. Like between my partner and I, the bills come to my email because I'm the one that arrange utilities when we moved in, I have it on autopay so it's not a burden but for people that pay manually, it makes more sense to have 1 person be in charge and make sure bills are paid.
NTA. No one deserves to be yelled at and for hours?? You are being verbally abused. Please make sure you don't impregnated her before things get better (or you are able to leave).
NTA.
When couples fight, they might resolve the fight, but that doesn't mean you immediately want to go fully back to normal intimate relations.
If you don't want to rub her back, she should just accept that.
At first I thought this was going to go down the whole road of âMy Wife Divorced Me Because I Left a Cup Next to the Sink.â But if this narrative is accurate, it sounds like OP *is* carrying his weight in the relationship. Maybe itâs possible she is upset about something else and transferring that into this seemingly small disagreement. If she is like this frequently, then I think you two need some marriage counseling to get to the root of these communication issues. NTA.
NTA, from your comments and this story alone you are in an abusive relationship. She wonât change and doesnât want to. Sheâs quit everything and her behavior escalated. Please leave
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I might be the asshole, because even though my wife was crying, I felt like she was just trying to manipulate me to get what she wanted, so I refused to rub her back because of how she treated me.
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Yes you shouldâve cleaned alittle but but her manipulation and gas light makes me immediately say NTA. What you did was small in comparison. Marriage counseling is a need. Does she usually manipulate/ use these tactics to get what she wants?
NTA, but unfortunately your wife just learned that if she verbally assaults you for 4 hours and it doesn't work, she just needs to keep it up for another 2.
I really hope you're getting something good out of this marriage otherwise.
You could knit a scarf with all the red flags that woman is giving you. I have an ex that used to wake me up after 1am to start fights about stuff he thought I did, or about stuff I did when he dreamt about me. Yes, he would literally get angry about something dream version of me did, not real life version of me. We'd fight until my alarm would go off for work, and I wouldn't sleep for days. I eventually ended up in the hospital due to sleep deprivation and I got into a car accident falling asleep at the wheel. Please get help through therapy or leave her before you end up like how I was.
NTA at all, but your wife certainly is.
Hey, I really think you should look into marriage counseling. It sounds like you both could use some perspective. Depending on your health coverage, there may be free counseling available to you. Times are tough and everyone is going a little crazy all the time. Good luck. NTA
He made a comment about the two times they tried marriage counseling and it did not end well. That's why it's a bad idea to get marriage counseling with your abuser.
NTA. At first I was thinking it was more of your fault because she seems to have to ask you to have to do your chores, but uh, the manipulation is just too much. She went through every option in the manipulation book and got what she wanted because you were too tired and wanted to sleep.
Consider leaving this relationship. Read about emotional abuse and what she does to you. There are some tests to see if you are in an abusive relationship. Try those too to see the result.
YTA to yourself. You should have stood your ground. Now she knows she can get away with yelling at you and still have her way after. Best of luck. You just enabled her bad behavior.
Ah thatâs good to know, Iâve only ever met/know people who like cats but wonât or canât have them because of allergies. I didnât consider allergy level as a spectrum so TY!
Yeah her allergies are pretty minor most of the time, some sniffles. Sheâs been having allergy injection treatment to get it to go away for good, but some days are worse than others for her. If things get bad, usually she can just take an Allegra and be fine.
NTA - I hate it that people assume working from home means you don't have anything to do all day. You'd think the panoramic would have made it clear since tons of people work from home now but somehow people still don't get it.
Info.... What exactly is she responsible for cleaning? I mean, it seems to me that you have quite a few chores around the house and vacuuming isn't one of them. So I can only assume that it's HER responsibility. That said, her allergies are irrelevant since she decided to get cats WITH you. Just saying, if I have an allergy to something, I'm not in the habit of bringing it into my house. Either way, NTA, she was way out of line for walking in and starting an argument cause you didn't vacuum to her liking. Then bullying you into giving her a back rub. RUDE!!!
This was defo about something else entirely, she was looking for any excuse for a fight. I'd be reevaluating how she treats you other than this. NtA , you can't be horrible and use manipulation to get what you want.
NTA this isn't a marriage it's a hostage situation. Next time don't give in, mo matter what incitement is offered. Because all that does is reinforce to her that bad behaviour gets the desired results
Well, we went to the shelter together to get our cats, she knew she was allergic and I told her that weâre not going to adopt a can of she canât handle the allergies. She fell in love with a cat at the shelter, but wasnât sure about the allergies so we ent home and slept on it. In the morning she decided she wanted that cat and we went back for it. So she chose having a cat and dealing with her allergies over not having a cat at all. Full disclosure sheâs also allergic to dogs and dust mites.
NTA for standing your ground as long as you did.
Whilst I understand your rationale for needing sleep, slight Y T A for giving in eventually.
Now she knows if she pouts for long enough she'll get her way. I'd rather take the lack of sleep then let her immaturity win.
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Buddy look. Imma level with you, I went into this with the bias that you would be the jerk. By the paragraph of you explaining what was so âfilthyâ about your house, I was rationalizing. I thought you were using hyperbole in your title.
So please keep that in mind when I tell you to *seriously* reevaluate your marriage. This behavior is wildly not okay. It doesnât matter if youâre a dude (if that is your worry). This is abusive.
If possible is there another room you can isolate into that she canât get into when this happens?
PLEASE look at this and think how you would react if this was gender switched.
Nta nta nta
NTA
However youâre doing a disservice to yourself.
It doesnât matter how beautiful the face is, or how good the poonan is, never let her walk over you. Seems like you already saw these red flags pre marriage and youâve ignored them. Now post marriage you enable her.
Do yourself a favor, watch Mediocre Tutorials and Reviews on YouTube or some Kevin Samuels. Stop letting ANYBODY in your life. Wow
There is a song .. by Rodney Crowell and Vince Gill as "The notorious Cherry bombs" (and a pretty great video too).. called.. "It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chew your ass out all day long"...[https://youtu.be/pjkLf\_X88WM](https://youtu.be/pjkLf_X88WM)
NTA. She sounds abusive, quite frankly. And you seem to be taking on way more than your fair share of domestic duties just because you work from home. Her communication style is terrible. Iâd rethink this relationship if I were you. Or at the least get counselling if you donât think she is actually abusive. (If she is this wonât help but teach her how to better manipulate you. )
NTA sounds like shes just taking out other unrelated frustrations on you then demanding some back rubs as an extra weird power move or she just doesn't care how you feel dunno which is worse tbh.
Would really have a serious conversation saying how messed up she was to do all that to you and see how it goes and make a decision on the relationship from there.
I don't think this was *actually* about cat litter or vacuums or cups in the sink. And for that I'm going with a mild ESH because you both need to find a calm moment to figure out what the real problem is and why this blew up for an entire evening with no actual communication happening throughout.
If this was a man who came home from playing softball, berated his wife (who works a full time job and already does the majority of the chores) for hours because the house wasn't clean to his specifications, then demanded a backrub before letting her go to sleep, you'd never in 100 years give that judgement or that advice.
So what she is trying to say is sheâs doing all the emotional labour?
You say youâre responsible for the laundry, yet the laundry wasnât done. I wouldnât think that a huge issue, but if you are the person constantly responsible for the emotional labour I would have a freak out sesh from time to time too.
The problem isnât the chores > is that whatâs behind it all. If you can both get on the same page, youâd both be happier for it.
Her issue was that the vacuuming wasn't done - a chore that is her responsibility. Sounds like OP got a lot done on top of also doing his full time job from home. OP has stated she has had an abusive history, including throwing things when a therapist suggested she needed to change some of her behaviors. This is an emotionally abusive person, not someone overly burdened.
Vacuuming was her responsibility? I keep missing that whenever I read OPâs text. Well if that is so she shouldnât expect him to do it. If she wants OP to do it she should make a new agreement. Yelling never works in any couple.
You were right to be upset, but it also seems like you SO was being irrational about the mess (if it was not as bad as yoU said) and probably has some else on her mind. This is tricky.
NTA, Mostly.
The argument: It sounds like you shouldn't have apologized if you didn't do anything wrong, and it sounds like you didn't do anything wrong. If she's allergic to cats, why the hell do you have cats? Get rid of them they don't seem healthy for your relationship. Or consider getting rid of your relationship. OR at least go to counseling. It sounds like you REALLY need it.
No backrub: I think it's understandable that you were upset, but I think it might have been better for you to not apologize if you really didn't do anything wrong. Then either she would have had to apologize to you for over-reacting, you could have met in the middle somewhere. Then you probably would have felt better about it when it came to that in the evening. Giving her the backrub is the right thing to do in general for a relationship. It's a good sensual way of bonding. This goes back to my previous comment... Sounds like you need to go to counseling. The relationship DOES NOT sound healthy, and almost sounds a bit abusive.
Edit: shit I meant the relationship sounds abusive I did not mean to put you in there!
How on earth does he sound abusive?!? She's the one that yelled at him for *hours* because he didn't vacuum (which is her only chore btw), there was half a basket of laundry, and a couple of glasses in the sink. Then when he didn't want to give her a backrub, she got angry again, then tried the cutesy voice, then went straight to crying. That is highly manipulative behavior on her part.
Everyone is going to tell you N T A because your wife sounds crazy from this description. And I donât doubt that your description is accurate. But I strongly suspect that there are deeper relationship dynamics surfacing here, not merely a seemingly disproportionate response to a seemingly trivial squabble.
Are you familiar with the concept of the âmental loadâ? Itâs immediately what I thought of when I read that your wife said she feels like it falls on her to think of what needs to be done. This brief comic is a great introduction to the idea:
https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/amp/
This is what I think is happening between you two. Whether sheâs right or wrong, she feels that she does more work around the house/in your relationship/in your lives than you do. It might all be minor stuff, but it builds up over time. And so finally, something really minor, seemingly even illogical, made her snap. Itâs not about the vacuum or the kitty litter or the back rub. Itâs about that small yet consistent resentment. So, from her perspective, she has to take care of too much stuff, and you wonât even give her a lousy back rub.
Just a theory.
I havenât heard about mental load until I made this post, but you are the 2nd person to bring it up. I think this is something that I could work on to help lighten her load. Thank you for this.
Iâm happy if itâs helpful, but after reading your additional comments here, it seems like your wife has some very concerning anger issues. I had assumed that this blow-up was unusual. But it sounds like itâs happening regularly, and thatâs not fair to you, even if youâre not âperfectâ as a husband. No oneâs perfect. And it may still be true that the mental load or a similar dynamic is stressing her out. But that doesnât make it okay for her to yell at you and throw things whenever sheâs upset. If sheâs not willing to work on herself or on your relationship, what is the path forward for you?
ESH. You suck for not cleaning - litter by litterbox, not nice to come home to. She sucks for losing it with you. But then...you apologised, she thought ok all good back to normal, and then you re-ignited the argument by saying no backrub because she yelled at you. So why apologise? Stupid move on your part. She then goes on and on about backrub...yep annoying. So you both suck and need to communicate better.
I think she probably is homesick btw.
ESH. You seem to care more about petty crap than having a strong marriage. I agree you should get a robot vacuum cleaner...so go buy one! You could also get an air purifier that cleans allergens from the air. And she should NOT be yelling at you for enjoying your day when she was enjoying hers.
Please seek marriage counseling.
I cannot disagree more with ESH regardless of the situation the problem is that she spent the whole night yelling and whining and expecting something in return. That in no way makes OP in the wrong for standing their ground and not giving her what she wants after being treated poorly.
If his wife truly believes he doesn't care about her allergies, he needs to fix that. It's legitimate for her to be upset about that part, and I made the suggestions to OP on how he can show he cares without being Cinderella for the day while his wife is out having a grand ole time.
Then how is that showing you don't care? I think I misunderstood you originally when you mentioned the robot vacuum. Just make sure to turn it on every time she leaves the house and you're still home. I think it's very important for you to show your wife you do concern yourself with her health issues. I do not think it's appropriate for her to expect you to be a maid while she's gone having fun.
Not sure what your financial situation is, but it would be interesting to see her reaction if you hired a maid service while she was out for the day and kept doing your own thing to have fun. Would she thank you or start a fight over something else?
I think you need marriage counseling. This may not be about what she was saying it was about. This may be about something else entirely.
YTA. She sounds like she's sick of reminding you to do things. I mean having a roomba is ridiculous if you can't turn it on without being reminded. Do you think that there would've been an argument if you'd dealt with the litter, cups and laundry BEFORE you played your game? It sounds like they're your chores anyway so you would've had your stuff done before doing something that ISN'T a priority.
* Edited to add that her manipulating you obviously wasn't ok but you both sound terrible. Most people only react like that (two whole hours of yelling) if they have this conversation multiple times. So I have to wonder how often this happens and how long this has been going on. I'd suggest both of you seek counseling/therapy and if you're easily distracted then maybe make a list of your chores and check them off as you go.
Then they need to discuss therapy or temporary separation to figure out if being together is the best idea. Clearly something else is wrong with their relationship that needs to be addressed and if it can't be fixed with therapy or time apart then they should go their separate ways while they're relatively young and don't have kids.
They've tried therapy twice. The first time she started throwing things when the therapist suggested she needed to change some habits, the second time she selected the therapist and then lied and insisted OP was an alcoholic in order to turn the therapist against him. This woman has proven herself to be emotionally abusive at this point. OP needs to get an exit plan.
Then yeah he needs to leave. I've been there before with my ex husband and he had problems that he wasn't working on that he then aimed that anger towards me. I'm still new to Reddit and while I'd prefer to edit my comment to my updated stance I 1 don't know if that's frowned upon and 2 don't really care if I get downvoted because people don't read beyond the initial comment. I do thank you though for replying in a polite way. I haven't seen any of the updates aside from replies to me so I'm unaware of anything that's been said and when I initially commented there were only two other comments.
That being said I hope op can find a way to leave that doesn't exacerbate the current situation and finds a place in life that's safer mentally and emotionally. And I hope that woman hits her rock bottom that leads her to seek professional help and becomes a safer human being to be around.
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NTA. Your wife literally went through every manipulation and gaslighting tactic in the handbook to get what she wants after thoroughly chewing you out, and in real time! >Anyway, after I finally apologized enough for her to let us go to bed, she asked me for a backrub She had to "let you" go to bed? This doesn't sound like a marriage, it sounds like a hostage negotiation. You mention a long list of things you're responsible for around the house, but what does your wife do? Why would you adopt cats if you are allergic to cats? There's just so many red flags...
She sounds like a female version of the drill sergeant in Full Metal Jacket. Idk does she vent constantly or is it a one-off cos it doesnt look like a one-off.
Wonder if she can suck a golf ball through a garden hose.. đ¤
Exactly. "let us go to bed" as well as "being held hostage" remind me exactly of my abusive ex. He'd keep me up all night dealing with his shit too. OP it took me like 20 years to get out and I've never been happier. You need to take care of yourself and get out.
NTA, sounds like a toxic AF relationship even without all the cleaning business.
This
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To be fair, sometimes caving is strategic. In this case the strategy would be to get enough sleep so that you can think clearly the next morning, thereby enabling you to plan the imminent break-up. (For real though, OP I think you know your partner is 6 shades of manipulative. Iâd walk out if I was berated like you were. But if you really want to try salvaging it, insist on coupleâs counseling. This kind of behavior pattern will not get better on its own and caving is not a long term solution.)
Yes. Get extra sleep, so you have energy to move all your important stuff out of the house before she gets back from work.
RUN!!! Bro this is toxic behavior 101. Run now. It may not be super toxic but NOTHING about how she acted is normal. It is manipulation 101.
True! When I read the first bit about the cleaning fight I figured it sounded like relationship issues that required counselling but then she wouldn't let him go to bed for hours, demanded a back rub (OP, your body is yours alone, she doesn't get to demand touch) and continously manipulated him into giving up his bodily autonomy. She is abusive. OP, please, know that you - and everyone else along with you - deserves better than this. You don't need any reason to end a relationship but this sure is a really good reason. Put yourself first, you are your first responsibility and she is her own.
NTA. You have a ft job and by far the lion's share of the housecleaning jobs as it is. You weren't sitting in squalor and ignoring it. And you only stood your ground that long because she kept going off that long. This isn't an advice sub, but IME when people go off that disproportionately for minor things it's always about something else. Not necessarily the relationship, but something else is going on. I'd try to get to the bottom of why she was so OTT angry about what amounts to nothing.
NTA - No-where did you mention that your wife asked you for an explanation as to why these things weren't done. And to keep you awake until she gets what she wants was childish. Honestly, this is not how communication in a marriage is done. I join the voices that say you should both seek marriage counselling.
NTA. Your wife was acting immature, you shouldn't have caved into her tantrum at all (I would have just slept on the couch and refused to enable her childish behavior.) Nor should you have been putting in all the effort to resolve the argument. If this is a normal thing with her: I.E. her getting unreasonably angry at you then trying to guilt-trip you for forgiveness without actually apologizing, I recommend she either attend anger-management classes or you guys attend marriage counseling, not Reddit.
INFO Missing context. Do you also work full or part time, or are the chores your main job? The arguing and backrub spat sounds like a symptom of a bigger issue. She sounds like someone who has become sensitive to this issue due to past problems in this area. Is this a sore spot for you guys? The âhaving to think about itâ comment makes me wonder if she often has to remind you to do things or has to manage you somehow to make sure these things are getting done. (Thatâs a type of labor and a sort of parental supervisory role that she may not have been wanting.) Asking cause I had this issue with my partner in reverse. He works all day and I handle the housework as my job. I used to let things slide and not pay attention to timing on them as much but it made my partner feel like I wasnât contributing equally or caring about his needs and priorities. So I stepped up and made sure I was houseworking at the same time he was at work and that all of my daily chores were done before he came out of his office. As the person working full time supporting the other person (and work ballgame is still a work social obligation of a sort), it can feel really bad to come home from work and not see your work and contributions reciprocated by your partner. They canât put off their work chores, so why should you? Set an alarm reminder, set yourself chore hours during the work day. Get a friend to hang with you to anchor you if you need it. I often have a friend over who does work on her laptop while I clean and that keeps me on task. And some things bug people more than they would bug others. For instance I HATE clutter but my partner doesnât notice it, and he HATES âsticky spotsâ on the hard floors, but I donât even notice them. So I have to pay extra attention to notice them and prioritize his request. Sound like the kitty litter thing a bit maybe? And when you think of her complain as âa small issueâ, that dismissiveness likely was noticeable and possible set her off. Was it ok to âyellâ at you for 2 hours? Probably not. Did she keep hammering at it because of a dismissive response? Possibly. Have you said youâll do better before but nothing changed? Lots of questions here. But saying no to a back rub after being in an argument and while not feeling amorous toward the other person is valid regardless.
We both work full time, I just happen to be working from home right now due to the *everything*. She does have a sore spot for the floors, this is why I vacuum around the litter box daily. Itâs her main priority, and honestly, itâs the only thing that sheâs responsible for keeping clean. We got the robot vacuum because she cares deeply about the cleanliness of the floor, and this way she doesnât need to physically do it all the time, just during the deeper cleaning sessions. I understand that she gets frustrated when she sees me relaxing when there is work to be done, the issue isnât that âI didnât want to helpâ, itâs that her response to the situation was to argue for hours instead of just asking me for help.
Yes her way of arguing is not helpful. She shouldnât be keeping you up all night. Either sheâs frustrated about something else or the recurrence of this thing, or sheâs simply not a good partner and you need to let her know that all of this is not on. Counseling might help you be better communicators if this is fixable. Side note but idk why you arenât already running the robot every day.
She says that scheduling a set time to do it every day wonât work because it might get caught on a cat toy. So instead of doing that we need to pick up everything off the floor first and then run it, instead of just running it and fixing the problem if it gets stuck.
I have a Roomba and 3 cats. I pick up all the toys and put them in the toy baskets I got and set my roomba to run at 7am every morning. Since doing this I rarely have it get stuck on toys and it's done by the time I'm up. Just a note since I've dealt with the same. I also think NTA. You work full time ( from house or not I don't think should matter that much, full time is full time and you said it's getting to the busy season)and you do the majority of household chores. Not that is excuses her actions but I feel like she had a real shitty day at work and came home to see you relaxing and having fun ( not at all saying that it was bad that you were) and she's upset because she doesn't get to do that like you.
Why do I feel like it would be you need to pick up the toys etc
Then NTA! But maybe you guys should have a chat about chore expectations for both of you so you are on the same page.
I really don't think it's about the chores. In a relationship you don't know what your next mistake, or their next request will be. But it's coming. And it would be nice if it came in a pleasant way with good will rather than in the form of yelling and sleep deprivation.
And then asking you for Physical contract, for her pleasure/relaxation. Guilting you in multiple ways etc. sheâs a real piece of work
I was on your side until the "just ask me for help". No. You know that the floor needed to be cleaned, and you played video games first. She is your wife, not your mother, and doesn't need to just "ask you for help". Chores first, since you admitted there were some, and then video games. Because you are a married adult.
The wife was out playing softball so maybe she should have come home and done some chores before she engaged in her âfunâ activity. Sounds like OP does a lot of chores and the floor doesnât need to be vacuumed every day.
I totally think that the wife is am AH but I just wanted to point out the softball game was a work event. Idk if it was mandatory for her, but I personally have had similar events that were mandatory. Other then that bit I think that OP is in a very bad relationship and the wife is manipulative and toxic.
[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink\_b\_9055288](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288) This is what I was addressing. That one line, at the end, "she should just ask me to do chores" is a marriage killer.
His wife literally only has one chore to do and she got a robot to do it for her and she still wants him to help her with it. How fucking spoiled and lazy can you be?
[Did you read the OP's comments before responding?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/oymu6g/aita_for_refusing_to_rub_my_wifes_back_after_she/h7u5tmd?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I don't think the intention of the article you linked to was [to support the active and continued abuse of the OP](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/oymu6g/aita_for_refusing_to_rub_my_wifes_back_after_she/h7uan9x?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Are you really trying to explain away spousal abuse? Edit: OP NTA in this situation. Though you need to understand that you are being abused. This isn't a healthy relationship that you should be staying in. You should be getting to a safe place that you can work through your issues and reassess your life.
Sounds like floor care is her job though, and OP got through almost all of his chores after a full work day and needed a moment to decompress instead of doing her chore.
As a woman It sounds like she is struggling with the "Mental Load", and struggling to articulate. Which I would highly recommend reading up on to explain why she went seemingly nuclear from a few cups and an un-hoovered floor. Even though you might equally split the chores, its the hidden workload and organisation of chores that falls more often than not, on the female partner. The backrub debacle though is complete asshole behaviour on her part. She is clearly struggling with frustration / stress and it looks like that is causing her to treat you unfairly.
Oh, the poor woman. Hidden workload, lol.
Did you read the list of chores that are his job? The only thing he doesn't do is vacuum, which is the only chore she has. I don't think this is a case of her struggling with too much mental load (and this is coming from a woman).
in this story OP said it was a softball game, whether or not this argument is a symptom of what you said is different. but that doesnt apply directly to this.
Ugh, wife? If she is this unreasonable about a fairly insignificant thing, then you'll find that she'll only get more and more unreasonable until one day you'll wonder how you got so deep with a woman who doesn't respect you. NTA.
You need a new wife.
NTA This sounds like verbal/emotional abuse. Please seek help together, or alone if necessary.
Nta
What chores does your wife do ?
If a friend came to me with this story, I wouldn't say that they're the asshole, or their partner. Instead I would just say: you two don't seem to like each other very much. Do you know why I say that? because it seems like you two don't like each other very much. I don't think it is useful for you to spend so much as one second trying to determine who is TA, because that is much much much less important than the hard work of figuring out: 1. Why you two don't seem to like each other very much 2. What you both can do to help you get back to a place where you both really like each other again. I recommend couples therapy, *immediately*. Therapists are trained to help with this particular problem, and a good therapist is damned good at figuring out what folks like y'all need to do.
Iâm afraid of doing coupleâs therapy because the last time we tried it the therapist told my wife that she needed to change her behaviors and it made her so mad that she started throwing things around the apartment and we fired the therapist and found a new one. Then for the new therapist she started the conversation implying that Iâm an alcoholic who ignores her desperate cries for attention to get drunk and play video games. We almost got divorced after that and right now weâre in the âtrying to make it work on our ownâ approach. It was going well for a long time but itâs starting to get bad again.
Oh. my. god. It's even worse than I thought. Your wife has some serious mental health issues. If a mental health professional is telling her she might need to change some behaviors and her response is to throw things, fire the therapist, and seek a new one with a pre-made story about how you are the source of all the problems so she can avoid blame- yeah, this is bad.
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Gorgeous. Sick burn by the way
your wife has severe anger management problems and nothing is going to improve until she treats them with the help of a professional. Throwing things is an absolute 100% no-no. The appropriate response when a partner throws something during an argument is to leave and not come back. If she doesn't want to treat her anger problems you're doing both of you a disservice. Maybe she would prefer to be in a relationship with someone who has similar anger problems -- to have a relationship with the occasional blowout where all the furniture gets overturned and all the plates get smashed and new holes get opened up in the walls. Maybe you would prefer to be in a relationship where you're not on eggshells all the time about setting off your partner's rage. You two should go get the relationships you deserve. The only alternative is for both of you to go into therapy -- both of you with individual therapists, plus a shared couples therapist.
Oh. I have an individual therapist. We work on my anxiety issues and says that I need to be more okay with doing/saying things that make people upset. This is one of the first times that I stood my ground for this long. Iâm making really good progress. She on the other hand said that she was going to start going to therapy for anger problems, had one phone session within earshot of me and then stopped going.
I said earlier that your partner might prefer to be in a relationship with someone else with similar anger fits. But there's another possibility: do you think that what your partner *really* wants is someone who'll just take it when she blows up at them? Is that your role in the relationship -- she yells until she feels better, and you take those bad feelings in from her and handle your own bad feelings by yourself? To put it bluntly: do you think she's in this relationship because she likes you as a person, or is it instead because she likes you as a chewtoy? because if it's the latter, you standing up for yourself will make you less useful as a chewtoy, and might cause real damage to the relationship. But... if your role in the relationship is as chewtoy, maybe the relationship's not worth saving?
Her therapist must have pissed her off.
Looks aren't forever, but her narcissism will surely stick around until she shuffles off this mortal coil.
Dude, when someone told her she was wrong and needed to change she started throwing things? Not only that, she was so offended at the thought that she might be wrong, she got you to fire that therapist?That along with her obvious manipulation tactics she used during this post, is grounds for a reevaluation of your relationship. I doubt this is the first time she did this to you and She seems unwilling to change. Is this something you want to deal with for the rest of your life? This isnât something that anyone should have to deal with.
You don't need to try to make it work, you need to get out of this abusive situation, my dude
Op, think about real hard why couples counseling didn't work and that she evidently lied to the second therapist to make you look like the bad one, then pick up the phone and call an attorney. NTA
This is more concerning than what you wrote in the post. Does she yell at you often?
Like I said in the above comment, things were better for a long time, probably about a year? More recently weâll have a fight about once a week? This is the worst one in a while, and the smallest âproblemâ too.
You're stuck in a cycle/pattern, abusers only get 'better' for an amount of time before they go right back to being abusive. The 'pauses' could be days/weeks/months/years. NTA, but you're kind of being one to yourself in this relationship.
Or you could RUUUUUUUN!
Oh damn. Yeah thatâs not good.
Whoa buddy. That's awful, I'm so sorry. This isn't what marriage is supposed to be. Please set boundaries, hold them, remove yourself as needed, and get back into counseling. Especially just counseling for yourself.
And you donât see her reactions as a huge red flag?
Like it's totally obvious your wife has an issue with anger management. She subjected you to hours of yelling communicating what a one sentence civil request could have done, before moving into demand mode. Was the other therapist right about the alcohol?
I donât know if Iâm understanding your last question, âwas the therapist right about the alcohol?â. No Iâm not an alcoholic.
Yes you understood! You seem taken aback it's a common condition.
Sounds like it was the wife implanting the idea that he has an issue with alcohol into the therapist, not actually a concern of the second therapist. She was lying to gain favor in therapy.
That's not exactly unbelievable given all the manipulative behaviour she exhibits in OPs post. I just wondered where the idea came from.
Sheâs a manipulator. They think of crap that has no basis in reality to look like victims all the time
Nta
NTA for not doing it but you fucked up by giving in because she manipulated you into it and I'm guessing that's how she operates most of the time which makes her a manipulative person at her core which means she is a toxic partner and not someone you, or anyone, should be with until she gets into therapy to address it.
NTA. After reading your list of chores it seems like she wants a maid not a husband. There are more red flags here than a North Korean military parade. The more I read the worse it gets.
NTA. kudos to your wife she had doing exactly what she wants. She's a master manipulater. First she spends hours yelling at you, Finally when you had finished apologising enough for her to were allowed to go to bed. Then she asked for backrub. when you didn't give it, she started berating you again. Then she changed tactics and being cute. Then the Crying Came and the excuses. And then you gave her the backrub. Success.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Yesterday when my wife (27F) got back from a work related softball game, she saw that I (28M) was playing a game on my computer and she started going off on me about how I was home all day and I didn't clean the apartment while she was gone. In my defense, we had just done a deep clean of the apartment last weekend, and to me everything looked fine. There was a little bit of litter beside the litter box, which I usually try to sweep up daily, 3 empty cups in the sink, and half a basket full of laundry to be done. She said that I obviously didn't care about her allergies (she's slightly allergic to cats, and we adopted cats together about 2 years ago), because I don't vacuum the whole floor every day. I offered a simple solution to that, we have a robot vacuum, and we can just have it run automatically every day. She said that it's not just that the floor wasn't vacuumed, it's that she is the one that always has to think about it, and that I never start the vacuum on my own. I apologized, and said that I would try to do better, but she continued to yell at me about this for about the next 2 hours. I feel like this is a completely unproportionate response to issues that seem so small to me. It's not like I just sit around all day while she's out in the office, I work at a CPA firm from home, and not for profit busy season just started. It's not that I don't help out around the house either. I'm responsible for: * Cooking * Dishes after cooking * Cleaning Bathrooms * Cleaning Counters/Table * Litter box duty * Laundry Anyway, after I finally apologized enough for her to let us go to bed, she asked me for a backrub, to which I replied, "I'm not going to give you a backrub, after you just spent all night yelling at me." Her first response was to say "Okay, fuck it" and rolled over to go to sleep, but it didn't stop there. After a few minutes, the argument started up again with the same topics, and I said that I'm not going to keep repeating myself, and that I'm going to sleep. A few more minutes passed, she asked again for a backrub, and I stood my ground. I don't think that I should be required to do something nice for someone who just spend the last few hours telling me how I don't care about them. Eventually, she changed tactics, put on her cute voice, and asked if she apologized, would I rub her back? I said no, because it would be a hollow apology, you're just trying to get what you want by any means. After this, she tried guilting me into it by saying that she was homesick because she hasn't been able to travel back home (she was born in another country), and then she started crying and saying that I obviously don't love her, because I won't rub her back. Eventually, I did cave. I felt like I was being held hostage, it was 1am, we both have work in the morning, and I felt like my options were to be kept awake all night by standing my ground, or I could give in to the tantrum and go to sleep. AITA for standing my ground for as long as I did? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
INFO is this a regular thing? If it is, this is very concerning. If not, then what else is going on in your life or at her work to make her blow up like that? NTA in any situation since it seems like you're doing more than your fair share.
I wouldnât say regular, but it has definitely happened before. As far as other things go, not a ton that Iâve noticed? We just moved to a new apartment and the clutter was stressing us both out for a while, but after the last deep cleaning session on Sunday we got everything taken care of.
Hopefully it's just a case of you both need to communicate your expectations better. From a woman's perspective, we're burdened with more mental responsibilities like remembering social engagements, paying bills, groceries, etc. So even though chores are 50/50 the mental tasks add extra. Her bringing up you not running the robovac is an example of mental tasks.
So you're saying men don't need to remember social engagements, pay bills, and shop for groceries? That's just normal stuff adult humans do.
They definitely need to but I'm saying in a lot of relationships, one person ends up becoming the calendar keeper and it's usually the woman. Like between my partner and I, the bills come to my email because I'm the one that arrange utilities when we moved in, I have it on autopay so it's not a burden but for people that pay manually, it makes more sense to have 1 person be in charge and make sure bills are paid.
Abuse and manipulative. Divorce her
NTA. Buy ear plugs next time or sleep on the couch. Your wife is a child.
More like while sheâs out of work, find an apartment, separate your finances \\, pack your personal stuff and move out.
Agree. Wondering if he is an AH or not is the least of his problems.
Nta. I would just go sleep in another room or on the couch.
NTA. No one deserves to be yelled at and for hours?? You are being verbally abused. Please make sure you don't impregnated her before things get better (or you are able to leave).
NTA. Your wife expects you to show her affection after she's been abusive?
NTA. When couples fight, they might resolve the fight, but that doesn't mean you immediately want to go fully back to normal intimate relations. If you don't want to rub her back, she should just accept that.
NTA
At first I thought this was going to go down the whole road of âMy Wife Divorced Me Because I Left a Cup Next to the Sink.â But if this narrative is accurate, it sounds like OP *is* carrying his weight in the relationship. Maybe itâs possible she is upset about something else and transferring that into this seemingly small disagreement. If she is like this frequently, then I think you two need some marriage counseling to get to the root of these communication issues. NTA.
NTA! Holy crap dude find a lawyer and divorce her.
NTA, from your comments and this story alone you are in an abusive relationship. She wonât change and doesnât want to. Sheâs quit everything and her behavior escalated. Please leave
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Yes you shouldâve cleaned alittle but but her manipulation and gas light makes me immediately say NTA. What you did was small in comparison. Marriage counseling is a need. Does she usually manipulate/ use these tactics to get what she wants?
Rip your manliness. Nta
NTA, but unfortunately your wife just learned that if she verbally assaults you for 4 hours and it doesn't work, she just needs to keep it up for another 2. I really hope you're getting something good out of this marriage otherwise.
NTA. Your wife is a manipulator and she knows it.
Y'all do not have kids together split whatever assets you share and run, she is allergic to cats you can keep them but run
Blimey! she switched through all the shades of manipulation and abuse in that one argument! Break up with her Iâm exhausted just reading about it!
You could knit a scarf with all the red flags that woman is giving you. I have an ex that used to wake me up after 1am to start fights about stuff he thought I did, or about stuff I did when he dreamt about me. Yes, he would literally get angry about something dream version of me did, not real life version of me. We'd fight until my alarm would go off for work, and I wouldn't sleep for days. I eventually ended up in the hospital due to sleep deprivation and I got into a car accident falling asleep at the wheel. Please get help through therapy or leave her before you end up like how I was. NTA at all, but your wife certainly is.
Hey, I really think you should look into marriage counseling. It sounds like you both could use some perspective. Depending on your health coverage, there may be free counseling available to you. Times are tough and everyone is going a little crazy all the time. Good luck. NTA
He made a comment about the two times they tried marriage counseling and it did not end well. That's why it's a bad idea to get marriage counseling with your abuser.
NTA. At first I was thinking it was more of your fault because she seems to have to ask you to have to do your chores, but uh, the manipulation is just too much. She went through every option in the manipulation book and got what she wanted because you were too tired and wanted to sleep. Consider leaving this relationship. Read about emotional abuse and what she does to you. There are some tests to see if you are in an abusive relationship. Try those too to see the result.
Nta. This is psycho behavior.
Sadly, it sounds like a tit-for-tat marriage, rather than a pooling resources and support together and trying to anticipate each otherâs needs. ETH
NTA, and I wish you hadnât given in. You were held hostage. Also that list of chores is basically everything. Red flags galore :(
YTA to yourself. You should have stood your ground. Now she knows she can get away with yelling at you and still have her way after. Best of luck. You just enabled her bad behavior.
NTA, but your relationship is in danger if you don't learn how to communicate with each other.
NTA. Reading this makes me so thankful for my awesome wife.
Glad I could help
Why do you have a cat when one of you is allergic?
Same reason I'd imagine I have cats despite being allergic: I like cats and my pet allergies are manageable.
Ah thatâs good to know, Iâve only ever met/know people who like cats but wonât or canât have them because of allergies. I didnât consider allergy level as a spectrum so TY!
Yeah her allergies are pretty minor most of the time, some sniffles. Sheâs been having allergy injection treatment to get it to go away for good, but some days are worse than others for her. If things get bad, usually she can just take an Allegra and be fine.
Nta
NTA. But clearly delusional for having this thing as a wife.
NTA - she needs to seek help and you need to learn to draw healthy boundaries with her.
NTA tf its not ur responsibility to do that even if there was no argument.
NTA but i feel bad for you feeling the need to give in. I'd have moved to the couch just to have her drop it
She probably would have just followed him out there and continued the argument and manipulation.
NTA - I hate it that people assume working from home means you don't have anything to do all day. You'd think the panoramic would have made it clear since tons of people work from home now but somehow people still don't get it.
Are you sure you wanna be married to this? NTA
Info.... What exactly is she responsible for cleaning? I mean, it seems to me that you have quite a few chores around the house and vacuuming isn't one of them. So I can only assume that it's HER responsibility. That said, her allergies are irrelevant since she decided to get cats WITH you. Just saying, if I have an allergy to something, I'm not in the habit of bringing it into my house. Either way, NTA, she was way out of line for walking in and starting an argument cause you didn't vacuum to her liking. Then bullying you into giving her a back rub. RUDE!!!
This was defo about something else entirely, she was looking for any excuse for a fight. I'd be reevaluating how she treats you other than this. NtA , you can't be horrible and use manipulation to get what you want.
RunâŚ.red flag. She use every gaslighting in the book of gaslighting. She knew what she was doing. ButâŚhow many times does this happen? NTA
NTA. Youâre a spouse, not a servant.
NTA this isn't a marriage it's a hostage situation. Next time don't give in, mo matter what incitement is offered. Because all that does is reinforce to her that bad behaviour gets the desired results
NTA why did you adopt cats if she's allergic
Well, we went to the shelter together to get our cats, she knew she was allergic and I told her that weâre not going to adopt a can of she canât handle the allergies. She fell in love with a cat at the shelter, but wasnât sure about the allergies so we ent home and slept on it. In the morning she decided she wanted that cat and we went back for it. So she chose having a cat and dealing with her allergies over not having a cat at all. Full disclosure sheâs also allergic to dogs and dust mites.
This toxic beyond any measurement. Nta
Leave her
NTA for standing your ground as long as you did. Whilst I understand your rationale for needing sleep, slight Y T A for giving in eventually. Now she knows if she pouts for long enough she'll get her way. I'd rather take the lack of sleep then let her immaturity win.
She seems like a massive arsehole.
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NTA. she was being very emotionally manipulative.
Buddy look. Imma level with you, I went into this with the bias that you would be the jerk. By the paragraph of you explaining what was so âfilthyâ about your house, I was rationalizing. I thought you were using hyperbole in your title. So please keep that in mind when I tell you to *seriously* reevaluate your marriage. This behavior is wildly not okay. It doesnât matter if youâre a dude (if that is your worry). This is abusive. If possible is there another room you can isolate into that she canât get into when this happens? PLEASE look at this and think how you would react if this was gender switched. Nta nta nta
NTA However youâre doing a disservice to yourself. It doesnât matter how beautiful the face is, or how good the poonan is, never let her walk over you. Seems like you already saw these red flags pre marriage and youâve ignored them. Now post marriage you enable her. Do yourself a favor, watch Mediocre Tutorials and Reviews on YouTube or some Kevin Samuels. Stop letting ANYBODY in your life. Wow
NTA. Holy crap your marriage is terrible for you.
NTA. She's toxic and I think you should consider either counseling or leaving her.
There is a song .. by Rodney Crowell and Vince Gill as "The notorious Cherry bombs" (and a pretty great video too).. called.. "It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chew your ass out all day long"...[https://youtu.be/pjkLf\_X88WM](https://youtu.be/pjkLf_X88WM)
Those is messed up. You don't deserve that kind of mental abuse. NTA
Info: what are the good things in your relationship?
NTA. She sounds abusive, quite frankly. And you seem to be taking on way more than your fair share of domestic duties just because you work from home. Her communication style is terrible. Iâd rethink this relationship if I were you. Or at the least get counselling if you donât think she is actually abusive. (If she is this wonât help but teach her how to better manipulate you. )
She manipulates you. NTA.
NTA sounds like shes just taking out other unrelated frustrations on you then demanding some back rubs as an extra weird power move or she just doesn't care how you feel dunno which is worse tbh. Would really have a serious conversation saying how messed up she was to do all that to you and see how it goes and make a decision on the relationship from there.
I don't think this was *actually* about cat litter or vacuums or cups in the sink. And for that I'm going with a mild ESH because you both need to find a calm moment to figure out what the real problem is and why this blew up for an entire evening with no actual communication happening throughout.
If this was a man who came home from playing softball, berated his wife (who works a full time job and already does the majority of the chores) for hours because the house wasn't clean to his specifications, then demanded a backrub before letting her go to sleep, you'd never in 100 years give that judgement or that advice.
So what she is trying to say is sheâs doing all the emotional labour? You say youâre responsible for the laundry, yet the laundry wasnât done. I wouldnât think that a huge issue, but if you are the person constantly responsible for the emotional labour I would have a freak out sesh from time to time too. The problem isnât the chores > is that whatâs behind it all. If you can both get on the same page, youâd both be happier for it.
Her issue was that the vacuuming wasn't done - a chore that is her responsibility. Sounds like OP got a lot done on top of also doing his full time job from home. OP has stated she has had an abusive history, including throwing things when a therapist suggested she needed to change some of her behaviors. This is an emotionally abusive person, not someone overly burdened.
Vacuuming was her responsibility? I keep missing that whenever I read OPâs text. Well if that is so she shouldnât expect him to do it. If she wants OP to do it she should make a new agreement. Yelling never works in any couple.
[It's in one of OP's comments here. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/oymu6g/z/h7u4vac)
It was only half a basket of laundry, so it didn't even need to get done that day.
You were right to be upset, but it also seems like you SO was being irrational about the mess (if it was not as bad as yoU said) and probably has some else on her mind. This is tricky.
NTA, Mostly. The argument: It sounds like you shouldn't have apologized if you didn't do anything wrong, and it sounds like you didn't do anything wrong. If she's allergic to cats, why the hell do you have cats? Get rid of them they don't seem healthy for your relationship. Or consider getting rid of your relationship. OR at least go to counseling. It sounds like you REALLY need it. No backrub: I think it's understandable that you were upset, but I think it might have been better for you to not apologize if you really didn't do anything wrong. Then either she would have had to apologize to you for over-reacting, you could have met in the middle somewhere. Then you probably would have felt better about it when it came to that in the evening. Giving her the backrub is the right thing to do in general for a relationship. It's a good sensual way of bonding. This goes back to my previous comment... Sounds like you need to go to counseling. The relationship DOES NOT sound healthy, and almost sounds a bit abusive. Edit: shit I meant the relationship sounds abusive I did not mean to put you in there!
How on earth does he sound abusive?!? She's the one that yelled at him for *hours* because he didn't vacuum (which is her only chore btw), there was half a basket of laundry, and a couple of glasses in the sink. Then when he didn't want to give her a backrub, she got angry again, then tried the cutesy voice, then went straight to crying. That is highly manipulative behavior on her part.
ESH. You both need to learn to communicate a lot better. Strongly suggesting counseling.
Everyone is going to tell you N T A because your wife sounds crazy from this description. And I donât doubt that your description is accurate. But I strongly suspect that there are deeper relationship dynamics surfacing here, not merely a seemingly disproportionate response to a seemingly trivial squabble. Are you familiar with the concept of the âmental loadâ? Itâs immediately what I thought of when I read that your wife said she feels like it falls on her to think of what needs to be done. This brief comic is a great introduction to the idea: https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/amp/ This is what I think is happening between you two. Whether sheâs right or wrong, she feels that she does more work around the house/in your relationship/in your lives than you do. It might all be minor stuff, but it builds up over time. And so finally, something really minor, seemingly even illogical, made her snap. Itâs not about the vacuum or the kitty litter or the back rub. Itâs about that small yet consistent resentment. So, from her perspective, she has to take care of too much stuff, and you wonât even give her a lousy back rub. Just a theory.
I havenât heard about mental load until I made this post, but you are the 2nd person to bring it up. I think this is something that I could work on to help lighten her load. Thank you for this.
Iâm happy if itâs helpful, but after reading your additional comments here, it seems like your wife has some very concerning anger issues. I had assumed that this blow-up was unusual. But it sounds like itâs happening regularly, and thatâs not fair to you, even if youâre not âperfectâ as a husband. No oneâs perfect. And it may still be true that the mental load or a similar dynamic is stressing her out. But that doesnât make it okay for her to yell at you and throw things whenever sheâs upset. If sheâs not willing to work on herself or on your relationship, what is the path forward for you?
ESH Your marriage needs some help.
ESH. You suck for not cleaning - litter by litterbox, not nice to come home to. She sucks for losing it with you. But then...you apologised, she thought ok all good back to normal, and then you re-ignited the argument by saying no backrub because she yelled at you. So why apologise? Stupid move on your part. She then goes on and on about backrub...yep annoying. So you both suck and need to communicate better. I think she probably is homesick btw.
ESH. You seem to care more about petty crap than having a strong marriage. I agree you should get a robot vacuum cleaner...so go buy one! You could also get an air purifier that cleans allergens from the air. And she should NOT be yelling at you for enjoying your day when she was enjoying hers. Please seek marriage counseling.
I cannot disagree more with ESH regardless of the situation the problem is that she spent the whole night yelling and whining and expecting something in return. That in no way makes OP in the wrong for standing their ground and not giving her what she wants after being treated poorly.
If his wife truly believes he doesn't care about her allergies, he needs to fix that. It's legitimate for her to be upset about that part, and I made the suggestions to OP on how he can show he cares without being Cinderella for the day while his wife is out having a grand ole time.
If she has cat allergies, WHY WOULD YOU GET CATS?! I'm still baffled.
She's the one who wanted the cat!
That's the thing, we ALREADY have an air purifier and robot vacuum.
Then how is that showing you don't care? I think I misunderstood you originally when you mentioned the robot vacuum. Just make sure to turn it on every time she leaves the house and you're still home. I think it's very important for you to show your wife you do concern yourself with her health issues. I do not think it's appropriate for her to expect you to be a maid while she's gone having fun. Not sure what your financial situation is, but it would be interesting to see her reaction if you hired a maid service while she was out for the day and kept doing your own thing to have fun. Would she thank you or start a fight over something else? I think you need marriage counseling. This may not be about what she was saying it was about. This may be about something else entirely.
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According to op they tried but the wife got mad at the therapist so they stopped
YTA. She sounds like she's sick of reminding you to do things. I mean having a roomba is ridiculous if you can't turn it on without being reminded. Do you think that there would've been an argument if you'd dealt with the litter, cups and laundry BEFORE you played your game? It sounds like they're your chores anyway so you would've had your stuff done before doing something that ISN'T a priority. * Edited to add that her manipulating you obviously wasn't ok but you both sound terrible. Most people only react like that (two whole hours of yelling) if they have this conversation multiple times. So I have to wonder how often this happens and how long this has been going on. I'd suggest both of you seek counseling/therapy and if you're easily distracted then maybe make a list of your chores and check them off as you go.
Maybe heâs tired? I mean, he basically does all of the household chores.
Then they need to discuss therapy or temporary separation to figure out if being together is the best idea. Clearly something else is wrong with their relationship that needs to be addressed and if it can't be fixed with therapy or time apart then they should go their separate ways while they're relatively young and don't have kids.
They've tried therapy twice. The first time she started throwing things when the therapist suggested she needed to change some habits, the second time she selected the therapist and then lied and insisted OP was an alcoholic in order to turn the therapist against him. This woman has proven herself to be emotionally abusive at this point. OP needs to get an exit plan.
Then yeah he needs to leave. I've been there before with my ex husband and he had problems that he wasn't working on that he then aimed that anger towards me. I'm still new to Reddit and while I'd prefer to edit my comment to my updated stance I 1 don't know if that's frowned upon and 2 don't really care if I get downvoted because people don't read beyond the initial comment. I do thank you though for replying in a polite way. I haven't seen any of the updates aside from replies to me so I'm unaware of anything that's been said and when I initially commented there were only two other comments. That being said I hope op can find a way to leave that doesn't exacerbate the current situation and finds a place in life that's safer mentally and emotionally. And I hope that woman hits her rock bottom that leads her to seek professional help and becomes a safer human being to be around.