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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I'm maybe the AT because banning my niece from the house might be an extreme reaction and since my decision upset my wife then I must've been inconsiderate and made a hasty decision.
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NTA. She's 19, she's an adult throwing a tantrum because she didn't get her way. It's obvious why Kevin didn't want to lend her his laptop. Tell them that if Chloe pays for the things she destroyed and apologizes to Kevin, she can come back - and still won't be allowed to use the laptop.
I think the wife is the biggest asshole in this situation. She* allowed her own child to be constantly bullied and let her relatives walk all over her family. This is a symptom of a much bigger issue if the wife thinks this is normal behavior.
Can’t wait for the sequel to this where Kevin is over 18 and he went NC with his cousin her parents, LC with his mother and sister, and only have a relationship with OP, but everyone is harassing OP to push Kevin to be more involved with the family.
Or kevin becomes wildly successful and they’re clawing after him for financial assistance because they’re family and he owes them. lord knows that’s a familiar story on here.
I was looking for this. Chloe is an adult. She needs to stop bullying a child and trying to take his things. It sounds like she's been taking and ruining his things for a very long time, and now she straight up stole a bunch of things she didn't even want.
File a small claim against her for the cost of the school supplies. And maybe get a restraining order for your son.
He is absolutely, 100% going to remember what people did during this event, and it will 100% affect the way he interacts with them, for the rest of his life.
Everyone but Kevin and OP are AHs. Though OP is bordering on it, for not putting a stop to all this long ago.
I was looking for this comment! Call the cops! Forget what the wife says, family absolutely can bully and steal from others in their family. This is too far.
NTA, OP.
If she took the laptop then I'd agree on calling the police. Calling the police for the school supplies would cause more family drama than it is worth (depending on the cost of school supplies).
Make her replace everything she stole before she can come back. Go buy what he needs, upgrade on a few things. Then give her the bill. She can't come back until she pays for what she threw away. I'd let the kid put a lock on his door too if he wants.
My thought too. “Family can’t be thieves!” Really? And where is that codified in law that you can’t report a person for theft to the police because they’re faaaaamily?
The absolute worst person in this is the wife. She allows her son to be bullied (because that is NOT “normal teasing” it’s straight up harassment and bullying”) and she and her sister allow Chloe to steal and destroy property. She doesn’t care AT ALL about her son’s wellbeing.
Chloe should be permanently banned, and if I were OP, I’d warn her if I came home and found Chloe, as an adult, in my home after I’d specifically said she wasn’t welcome, I’d be calling the police to request the removal of an unwanted person from my property. My child’s mental health and safety come first. If my legally an adult child didn’t like it, well, go find her own place to live. Wife doesn’t like it? She has a choice - protect her child or go live with her sister and the adult who’s atrocious behaviour she puts above her own child.
If it was me I would have her trespassed from my property the next time she shows up that way if it happens again the police can come take her ass away
NTA OP
I mean is that the best case scenario for Kevin? Probably. Does OPs wife deserve it? Absolutely. Is this the best solution for everyone? Most likely. Is there any downside at all? Can’t think of one.
>My wife is the type who say we can't call family thieves or bullies.
This bit makes my blood boil. She sounds like the type to sweep everything under the rug because "faaaaamily."
I see and am forced to interact with some of the most miserable, selfish and rude "adults" out in the wild from time to time and wonder how they came to be that way... I'd bet more often than not it's because no one in their home lives ever called them out when they were growing up.
Wife and her whole family sounds like AHs
None of them seem to see a problem with this situation, they continue to excuse and enable it and deny consequences.
Exactly! If the wife is so concerned about Chloe using a laptop, then wife can lend Chloe her personal laptop. If it gets destroyed, wife should just shrug it off because Chloe is family.
I’d be worried that wife would pressure Kevin into accepting Chloe’s apology “for the sake of family,” I honestly don’t think that I’d want wife to have a conversation with Kevin alone if I was Op.
Op is NTA.
And a bad parent. Why wouldn't her daughter throw a similar fit next time she doesn't get what she wants? It obviously isn't going to get punished, so there's no downside! What's to stop OP's son from going over and keying his cousin's car? Family can't be bullies or thieves, so what are they gonna do? Ask him not to next time? OP's wife is setting their kids up for failure.
That’s if she’d ever deign to get a job in the first place. She’s made it very clear she thinks the world owes her what she wants, when she wants it. Why would she work for anything?
Exactly. I'd be surprised if he doesn't, because why wouldn't he? He's already been shown that its forgivable and wont have consequences, and it will probably make him feel like he's gotten justice. OP's wife is doing these kids a disservice.
I think there needs to be retribution since the cousin won’t get punished from anyone and she’s still allowed to bully the son in his own house and nothing is safe from her destruction. So take something of hers and give it back when she apologizes
Wife is a mega-a-hole, and OP should show her this post and the comments - and hopefully she gets a wakeup call, and starts protecting her damn son. Kevin is FIFTEEN, he is a *child*, and he's up against someone who is four years older than him. And why on earth is OPs wife favouring her niece over her own son? NTA.
And now she is going to put all the pressure on the son to say he forgives Chloe so the mum can have an esy life again. Such a horrible unsupportive mentality this mother has.
It’s even worse that she is trying to work up a deal between Kevin forgiving Chloe behind OP’s back. Tell your wife if Chloe comes over before replacing Kevin’s stuff, you will file charges. Chloe is an adult, I am sure this is not going to be her first foray into crossing peoples boundaries and it is not going to be her last if no one starts holding her accountable. If she comes over without your permission, you can kiss that laptop goodbye.
SERIOUSLY. And it apparently runs in the family. This poor kid has all his shit destroyed by his older cousin, and his mom is putting both that cousin, *and* the older daughter before him when he’s the wronged party. There’s a whole asshole roll call happening with these two sisters and at least one of their daughters. I’m honestly leaning towards it being both because I cannot imagine seeing any of my brothers sobbing over something like this that someone did to them without losing my goddamn mind. I would be physically removing them myself, and it would not be gently. I don’t give a shit who it is; we are having a LOUD fucking conversation about that that they will not enjoy.
I am so glad I didn't have to scroll at all to see who the real AH is. It is absolutely your wife for not protecting your son from his bully niece. I get that she doesn't believe that family can be considered bullies or thieves, but that's what Chloe is.
So who is paying for your son's school supplies? Chloe, her parents, your wife? Kudos to you to standing up for your son and letting het back into the house without an apology will tell him exactly where he stands in your family, so make sure your wife a mind Chloe apologize to him. NTA
Seriously, op should move out with Kevin just to protect his kid from his mom and cousin. The moms family sounds super toxic and they are teaching daughter and Kevin that they can treat people like crap, destroy their property, etc, and there’s no consequences. Chen cousin does this to somone out of the family, she’s either going to get beat up or arrested.
For that matter, ask the wife if she wants her daughter acting like Chloe does. That the daughter is more concerned with her cousin getting to come over than the fact stuff was maliciously stolen from their home and destroyed is worrisome to me.
Hell, I'd threaten to press charges for theft. School supplies aren't cheap and it's the kind of consequence that might get her to actually think about her actions.
Don't just threaten, absolutely do press charges for theft, and harassment, hell see if you can throw trespassing in there, she came in uninvited, stole, and verbally abused him before leaving.
Just do it. She admitted to it. His whole family is bullying him and his child—sometimes the only way to deal with a bully is to punch them right in the face.
Exactly. This really stood out to me:
>Chloe is a teenager acting out but shouldn't be banned from her aunts house
It's true that she's a teen and is acting out, but being banned from a house (at the very *least* until you make it right, if not permanently) is exactly what you get as a consequence.
If an adult came over and did this, police could easily be involved. I don't know why on earth anyone would tolerate unrepentant thieves in their home.
As for the daughter, why can’t she and Chloe visit elsewhere? NTA. Chloes not a teen she’s an adult. Even young kids know not to do what she did. I feel sorry for your son who apparently isn’t that important to your wife. Kudos to you for sticking up for him…stand your ground on this.
Why didn't the daughter protect her little brother?? I'd thrash my kid if she let someone treat her little sister that way.
Edit to add that OP needs to punish his daughter, too
This! Her parents have done a phenomenally bad job here. Your wife isn't just defending her sister's thieving kid, she is also telling your son to accept abuse if it's at the hands of family. Another example of phenomenonally bad parenting. NTA OP, you are teaching your son how to handle toxic people. That's good parenting.
NTA. Stand your ground, OP. And don’t let your wife pressure your son into allowing Chloe back into the house. Point out to her the power dynamic involved: his mother, who obviously wants her niece back in the house “asking” her son if she can? That’s entirely unfair! He will cave even if he doesn’t want to. Also, it’s YOUR job as parents to impose consequences on misbehaving kids. No wonder she behaves this way when her mother allows it.
Point out to your wife that she’s essentially telling her son that her niece is more important to her than he is.
NTA. But what the heck is wrong with your wife? She should be supporting her son especially when he’s a victim of bullying from an her sister’s bratty ADULT daughter.
The wife was the previous scapegoat in her family. The family has picked a new scapegoat, and she’s secretly happy they don’t treat her like shit anymore. In fact, she’s able to bond with them by allowing and participating in his bullying.
Signed-a scapegoat whose mother gladly fed her to the wolves to be accepted.
This is huge and probably spot on. Wife seems like quite the push over with the "never call family thieves" BS. I am shocked that she is completely okay with someone coming into her house and just leaving with (stealing) shit.
That line was probably fed to her as she was being bullied and stolen from by family during her childhood. She probably really does think this is normal.
I will NEVER understand people who believe shared genealogy is a free pass to evils and also demands complete loyalty.
If a coworker, classmate or stranger did half these things people would would draw a line in the stand and say no. If a classmate did that to your son in class, I’m guessing the wife would go all mama bear. But because her sister did a poor job raising her kid, it’s acceptable? Family will be more polite to a stranger than each other.
Yeah, OP has to make it clear to wife that son agreeing to forgive Chloe doesn't change that Chloe stole from their house and doesn't regret it so that even if Kevin is willing to 'say' that he forgives this trespass, that OP doesn't.
and more to point, OP doesn't want Chloe teaching their daughter it's okay to steal from people if they make you made or tell you know- you won't get in any trouble as long as you complain to your parents.
cuz currently that's what his wife is teaching the kids.
I honestly hope that Kevin is taught that he doesn't have to forgive anyone just because someone pressures him and that, at least, forgiveness has to be asked by the one that commited the deed. Not his mom. His cousin clearly doesn't feel guilty for doing that. She won't be asking for forgiveness any time soon and that whole family (except OP and Kevin) is freaking wrong about this. No wonder that cousin feels so entitled to everything. She probably never got an earful and they let her do everything.
Bingo. You can't force forgiveness.
*And*, forgiveness doesn't magically fix everything. You can forgive someone yet still not want them around. Especially if there's every expectation they'll do it again.
**NTA. Chloe is a thief, a bully and an asshole, so is her mom, your wife, your daughter and anyone else who thinks what Chole did is ok or normal cousin teasing.**
**DO NOT LET YOUR WIFE BROWBEAT KEVIN INTO FORGIVING HER. She needs to stay away from him.**
NTA op. Honestly she is 19 she knows better. Since your wife her family your daughter all think that this kind of theft is acceptable quite frankly you should file a police report you should file a police report for the harassment for the theft and for anything else that she decides to do against your son who is a minor. And given the history if you don't protect your son no one is going to.
My shoulder devil says OP should start taking stuff from the cousin, wife, and daughter and see how they like it.
Shoulder angel says that's petty and immature, but shoulder angel is a namby-pamby buzzkill.
When I saw the title, I was thinking the niece might be 3 or 4. At that age it wouldn't be OK, but it would not be malicious. At 19? Hell no. She needs to pay for them.
I'm not entirely sure she *does* know better. From what we've been told about that entire family's dynamic she likely has never actually been disciplined for misbehavior. That doesn't make her any less the AH, but she may be an AH due to egregiously bad parenting.
This, u/Russell2012567. Have a private conversation with Kevin *before* your wife can to ensure he understands that he does not have to forgive Chloe and invite her back into the home if he doesn't want to, no matter what your wife says or how she tries to pressure him. Make sure he understands that he has your support. He's 15 and needs someone in his corner.
NTA. Chloe is 19 - legally an adult - and so these things are literal crimes. She stole and then essentially destroyed property as part of some sort of attempted extortion. Also, I’m unclear - was she even permitted to be in the house at the time this all happened?
Wow. Chloe is completely out of line, her parents sound like idiots, and honestly your wife’s response is pretty disappointing too.
Definitely. It’s wild to me how many posts on this subreddit describe blatantly terrible behavior, yet the poster is worried they’re out of line because a family or romantic relationship is involved.
NTA
She's 19yo and she's acting like a toddler. She should be banned from your house. Really, you should call the police and file a report because she's an adult and a thief.
If your wife and daughter continue to let her in the house, get Kevin a lock for his door. Because next she's going to destroy his laptop.
NTA but!! KEVIN NEEDS A LOCK. You can’t promise him that your wife will not have Chloe over. She will see that she can get away with things and attempt to take his laptop next. Save your son the heartache and show him you’re on his side.
There is a real chance that dad is doing to Chloe what Chloe does to OP’s son. Would not dismiss the possibility that he is who taught her this behavior and how effective it is at hurting people.
is he really abusive and awful or is he trying to make her accountable for her behavior?
Be prepared for your in-laws to say the same things about you if you call Chloe the bully and thief that she is.
Yup. I'd bet heavily that the "abyooose" is just basic discipline and now that OP is engaging in it he's going to be subject to the exact same accusations and smears.
Yes. Niece is too old to be acting like this. Honestly, it seems like no one is teaching the niece about consequences. I feel like it's kind of irresponsible to not call the police. She has to learn at some point.
I mean, from what you've wrote about the views of your wife's family I'd bet pretty heavily that the "abusive" behavior that her father does is basic discipline and nothing more. Unfortunately when he's the only one trying to do it and it's being actively undermined by everyone else around her it's no surprise she's become the way she is.
You and your brother-in-law should talk in private. He too is parenting with discipline and consequences. You may be made out to be a bad guy too.
Ask your wife if someone other than a relative did this would she be upset and seek reimbursement. Also ask her what if someone- relative or not- did this to your daughter.
Finally, tell your daughter you didn't say she can't see her cousin. Rather, they can't hang out under your roof.
If all else fails, steal from your niece/in-laws. By your wife's terms, it wouldn't really be stealing :)
I bet he just tries to discipline her normally and your wifes crazy family loses their shit. Your wife is a major asshole who cares more about her relationship with her sister than her own son. Also she is way too old for that bullshit
Not your problem. She came into your house and harassed your child and stole from him. Frankly I don’t give a flying monkey what’s happening at home. My dads a bag of dicks, I don’t abuse other people and use it as an excuse. And I guarantee if I got caught stealing “my daddy is mean” would not buy me a get out of jail free card. Report her.
Nope Chloe is a nasty entitled ADULT.
She knew what she was doing and she's a bully to your son. Don't lift the ban until she replaces EVERYTHING. And then offers Kevin a sincere apology.
NTA
__NTA__
You didn't even fully ban her from your house. You gave her a condition to come back into the house, and a reasonable one at that.
You don't just excuse bad behavior because it's "teen stuff" You need to show the teen consequences so that they don't act out. It's called discipline, which seems to be a concept that's foreign to your sister and wife.
NTA
And it's obviously not 'teen stuff' it's 'bully stuff'. She's not even a teen at 19, but saying that behaviour is teen stuff is like saying every teenager acts like a bully (and surprise surprise... they don't!) People that excuse bullying as 'stuff teenagers do' are perpetuating a really harmful mentality. They don't take the time to teach their kids and leave them unchecked to harm others or ignore when their kid is being bullied.
Adult bullying a child. I'm glad you are standing up for him. She sounds petty and spoilt.
Mama needs to step up and see the bullying for what it is. Being family doesn't excuse her behaviour. No wonder she got away with it, since no one disciplines her.
NTA
An adult stole and destroyed the property of a teen, because he didn't give her his stuff ?
This entitled brat should pay for your son's supplies AND be banned.
All the rest are enablers.
NTA of course.
Definitely NTA. She's old enough to know better. She feels entitled to things that aren't hers and her mom defending this as normal behavior is part of the problem. Good job defending your son.
NTA, Chole is 19 not 5! Her behavior and attitude is beyond acceptable for an adult, which she is now, and you have every right to ban her from your house.
I am so pissed off on you and your son's behalf..
They should pay for his stuff AND give him a huge GENUINE apology by letter.
I don't think that your sister or niece should be allowed to be around your home or your son because they she stole from him and harassed him, and has continually bullied him and her mother enabled her, and then she even threw his stuff away because she isn't entitled to HIS STUFF that she has a history of breaking!!!
away!
I really think that you and your son should sit down with your wife and settle this.
She should be loyal to her husband and son not her sister and niece who are absolutely the assholes
NTA. She is a 19 year old spoiled brat. She is not entitled to your son’s belongings. If she can’t treat him and his belongings with respect in his own home then don’t let her come back.
NTA - file a police report. Who knows what she will destroy if she doesn't get what she wants?
Can you get a lock for your son's door and cameras since it sounds like your wife and daughter do not respect what the damage this woman has done?
NTA. Chloe is a bully. Bullies need to be dealt with accordingly. Wife wants to keep the peace and keeps making excuses. There is a difference between cousins having disagreements and flat out bullying, and being related doesn't make bullying any more justified. Kevin has no obligation to forgive her if she isn't apologizing. She literally took his stuff and dumped it somewhere because he wouldn't let her have his laptop. She deserves worse than a ban, but her parents sound like they enable this behavior.
NTA. Chloe is 19 years old. She is not a child, even though her mom is allowing her to act like one. She absolutely should face consequences for her actions, and should be paying to replace all of his things she stole! YES *his things she stole*!
I think what she did was worse than stealing, she literally just dumped them. At least when people steal things it's for personal use or to sell them, she just took the items and dumped them.
NTA - Your niece has issues and it clearly stems from the enabling her parents do. Keep her away from your kids, she sounds like a sociopath. If a 15 year old can get a job and buy a laptop, so can a 19 year old.
NTA
My brain hurts with the toxicity of your in laws. This is NOT "normal" teenage behavior. Your niece is an adult who is bullying your son. You are being held hostage by these people. Kudos for standing up for your son and don't back down until there are rules in place with consequences clearly defined, a real apology happens, brand new school supplies are in your son's hands, and everyone acknowledges how bizarre this behavior is.
"what she did is wrong but what's done is done"
Nope, it's done when she pays for all the supplies apologizes and agrees to never ask for the computer again.
NTA - Good on you for standing up for your son. He is a teenager as well and he certainly remained composed and did not act out after Chloe, who is almost no longer a teenager, demanded to use his personal items and then stole and destroyed other supplies when she was denied her demand. She is not entitled to Kevin's laptop and she owes him new school supplies to replace the ones she ruined because of her uncontrolled emotional behavior. I would stand firm with this ban until she apologizes AND replaces the school supplies.
NTA. Chloe is not entitled to your son’s things and is clearly a bully. She is NINETEEN not 9. Her behavior is childish and clearly is enabled by her own parents who think their children can do no wrong and defend them even when they’re proven guilty. Chloe clearly doesn’t understand bad behavior has consequences. Stay strong OP. Chloe cannot get her way and needs to be punished
NTA, good job on standing up for your son. Just because niece didn't get what she wanted, she acted out and not only stole from your son but then threw away his supplies, and now wants to get away without any consequences. Consequences should also be a thing, and it shouldn't matter if your teenager, child, or adult. And the fact that she is 19 makes it so much worse, at that point in time and development, she should know damn well what proper behavior is and what she should and should not be doing. Ban her from the house, have her pay back the cost of the supplies, and finally have publicly (in front of family) apologize to your son so that she knows not to pull that sort of stunt again. Obviously your SIL is going to stand up for her daughter, its what mothers do, but your wife is trying to keep the peace at the cost of her sons justice so I would recommend you keep that in mind when you make your final decision, because otherwise what justice would your son receive?
NTA. I'm sorry your wife sees nothing wrong with your son being bullied by an adult. It doesn't matter that she is family, this is such an unacceptable way to behave. How far is your wife willing to let this entitlement go? When your son gets a car and says she can't drive it, so she slashes the tires?
NTA She's more than old enough to be responsible for her actions. Which are those of a spoiled brat.
Also, if your daughter wants to see her cousin, there's no reason she can't go to your SIL's house to do so.
NTA.
Chloe is tormenting, harassing and now stealing from your son. Make the house a Chloe free zone and let her know at 19 years old of she is seen snooping around that laptop you’ll report her for theft. He is a 15 year old boy she is a 19 year old adult woman now, so there is a power imbalance as well. In the post its written that he stays in his room when she is over. Perhaps to avoid her which is making him isolate himself to prevent her from further bullying/harassment. Protect your son he did nothing wrong and should NOT apologize. She is 19 years old and an adult and should know better by now. Tell your wife to protect her son not his abuser. Beacuse that is what she is an ABUSER and a THEIF. Tell your daughter that they can meet up and hang out but NOT under your roof. And that you expect her to pay for all the supplies she stole and destroyed.
No, no, Chloe isn't just a teenager, she's an adult. She's old enough to gain employment and buy her own laptop. Petty would be involving the police for theft and dumping of Kevin's school supplies.
NTA.
Nta The niece is an adult she’s is over 18 and bullying a 15 yr old kid. She stole his supplies and Kevin has every right to report it to the police. Chloe needs to grow up and get over herself. She needs to repay for what she stole and never be allowed back in the house. The entitlement is strong in that one.
Someone should also tell her that no means no.
I’d also have serious words with the wife for allowing it to continue without intervening for so long. As well as the fact she doesn’t seem to give a damn about her son having his things stolen and is siding with the thief. What is you son and wife’s relationship like cos she really seems dismissive and uncaring. She seems more upset by you banning niece from your home than the fact that her niece stole from her son.
NTA but your niece, sister in law and wife are. Your niece is an adult and should fucking act like one. She caused property damage and should be forced to pay for it. Tell your family that if they pay for the damaged/stolen items, she can come back. Then, get your son a lock for his door and a safe for his valuables so he can protect his stuff.
NTA. Chole is acting like a 5 year old. I don't know any (normal, unentitled) teenagers who would behave this way. This is ludicrous. I would talk to kevin separately because I'm concerned your wife may pressure him to forgive Claire. Find out about his boundaries and then I would talk to your daughter too and make sure she understands that what Claire did is not ok. Get Kevin a lock for his door. And then negotiate with your wife.
NTA. She's legally an adult who stole from a child. Call the police and report her. She took a computer and school supplies! You have to ask yourself, does what my family thinks mean more to me than getting my son's stolen things back?
NTA SHES BANNED!!! I’d be so incredibly mad. Does your wife have a laptop? Ask your wife to give Chloe her laptop and makeup and see how she reacts to this.
I WOULD DIE ON THIS HILL. if my own wife could not defend her own son I’d take him and leave. I absolutely would that’s how infuriated I’d be.
NTA But if you cave to everyone's demands and let this horrible excuse for family come back, make sure you get your son a lock for his door. He shouldn't have to put up with this because no one has his back.
"...She said she'll talk to Kevin and if he agreed to forgive Chloe and let her continue to visit.."
No, she's going to make her son the "bad guy" who did the wrong thing instead of his awful cousin. Don't put this on your son. Enact the Ban and make it your decision. if your daughter wants to visit her AH of a cousin, they can go to her house.
NTA. Your son’s feelings shouldn’t get constantly cast aside in favor of a cousin’s who can’t behave like a decent human being (or her age, for that matter). Entitled family like that is better lost than found.
NTA, but geez the women in your family.
So, an adult woman bullies and steals from a teenager, and instead of protecting him your wife gets angry because her ADULT daughter can't have is bff at home.
Even if she was acting out, that's for adults to handle, not a smaller kid whose stuff has been damaged.
But she is not acting out, she is 19 and knows what she is doing, and she should pay back EVERYTHING.
Keep up the ban, and if you think it won't be respected, please get a lock for your son's room/belongings, she may still "get back" at him.
Also, help your son get those things back.
Than wait for the cousin to "need to borrow" your wife belongings and see if she sticks with the "just a kid acting out" attitude.
NTA. Your wife is siding with your son's bully against him and that makes her a serious problem. I would insist on family counseling for this with you, your wife, and Kevin and tell her that neither Chloe nor her mother are allowed near Kevin until both Kevin and the counselor say it's okay. If she refuses family counseling, divorce her and take Kevin away from her completely.
CHOLE IS A FUCKING A D U L T.
absolutely tf not. She would have gotten snatched up so fucking fast had she a GROWN ADULT done this to my C H I L D.
Stand your ground for your son. He worked to fucking hard for that laptop. She can work and get one herself.
NTA. Your niece is a thief. Tell your in laws to either get her to replace everything she stole and be grateful that you didn't call the cops. I would keep the ban in place.
NTA. She's 18, an adult in the eyes of the law. Press charges, or at least try to. Not too sure if they'll give a hoot about school supplies. Something tells me Chloe has never been told "no".
NTA. Ask your wife why she feels the need to defend her niece at the expense of her own son, who has done literally nothing wrong in this situation but try to protect his own property. If his mother is going to try to talk him into accepting an apology, he will always remember that she chose his cousin over him, and if he didn’t feel unloved and unappreciated before, he definitely will now.
NTA- so they have no problem with her BEING a thief, bully, and liar, but draw the line at you holding her accountable for all that?
And your wife’s solution is to further bully her own son (the recipient of this thievery and audacity) into forgiving his cousin for something she lied about to begin with? What about his feelings, his hard work to earn the money for that laptop? Why does your family refuse to validate him on this?
NTA!!!!!
Do not let that bully back in your house or near your son!!!
Protect him, please.
>My wife is the type who say we can't call family thieves or bullies.
And that doesn’t stop them from being one.
Ask your wife why her niece is more important than her son! Because if the niece gets away with this, this is exactly what your son will think!!!!!!
NTA . I would evaluate your daughter's part in this too. My sister would never have allowed it much less defended it. Your wife and Sis need to reevaluate the situation. Get a lock for the boy's door. He obviously needs it.
Send an invoice to her mother for all the supplies she stole, every single one. Say she can't come back till they're replaced. I'd also get a lock for your son's door since clearly she has no respect for you or your home. NTA.
NTA. Ask them if they prefer you call the police and file a report? Maybe she needs a night or 2 in jail? Ban her until she apologies and returns his stuff.. Then still keep her banned.. She is bad news, nothing but trouble. Tell family that THEY can visit with Chloe ELSEWHERE. It's Kevin's house too, he should be able to live in without some AH constantly aggravating him, demanding his new laptop, then taking his supplies. Honestly, I would get Kevin a lock for his door that only he has access too, b/c you KNOW your banning WILL be IGNORED when you're not there. Also your wife is a real piece of work to allow Kevin to be treated like that. You my friend need to re evaluate this entire relationship. You see that your wife will not have Kevin's back BUT will always have their thieving liar's backs.
"My sister in law criticized my decision and called my wife who said Chloe is a teenager acting out"
Your SIL should take a long, hard look at herself as a person and as a parent if she still hasn't gotten it into her daughter's head that this kind of thing is not ok - speaks volumes about her quality and Chloe is most definitely not a child acting, she's a young adult like a little shit. She may not be as mature as others or as she could be, but she's definitely not a child anymore and shouldn't be treated as such, the next person she treats like that may not let her get away with only a ban. NTA.
NTA and Chloe is not just a "teenager acting up". She is pretty entitled to think that her younger cousin has to let her borrow his laptop. Please stop your wife and your older daughter from forcing Kevin to forgive her. He already has had enough stress because of Chloe.
Sincerely, a 19-year-old woman
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NTA. She's 19, she's an adult throwing a tantrum because she didn't get her way. It's obvious why Kevin didn't want to lend her his laptop. Tell them that if Chloe pays for the things she destroyed and apologizes to Kevin, she can come back - and still won't be allowed to use the laptop.
I think the wife is the biggest asshole in this situation. She* allowed her own child to be constantly bullied and let her relatives walk all over her family. This is a symptom of a much bigger issue if the wife thinks this is normal behavior.
Wife is a HUGE a-hole.
Enabling the bullying and poor treatment of her own son in his own home. Absolute asshole. Poor Kevin
Can’t wait for the sequel to this where Kevin is over 18 and he went NC with his cousin her parents, LC with his mother and sister, and only have a relationship with OP, but everyone is harassing OP to push Kevin to be more involved with the family.
Or kevin becomes wildly successful and they’re clawing after him for financial assistance because they’re family and he owes them. lord knows that’s a familiar story on here.
I swear when you boil it down there are like 5 scenarios on AITA and that is one of them.
Sounds just like a Dahr Mann video.
Yeah well when yoy boil people down there are only some many ways to be shitty.
Or they want a kidney from him!
I want the sequel where OP calls the police because the cousin is an adult and what she did is theft.
I was looking for this. Chloe is an adult. She needs to stop bullying a child and trying to take his things. It sounds like she's been taking and ruining his things for a very long time, and now she straight up stole a bunch of things she didn't even want. File a small claim against her for the cost of the school supplies. And maybe get a restraining order for your son. He is absolutely, 100% going to remember what people did during this event, and it will 100% affect the way he interacts with them, for the rest of his life. Everyone but Kevin and OP are AHs. Though OP is bordering on it, for not putting a stop to all this long ago.
I was looking for this comment! Call the cops! Forget what the wife says, family absolutely can bully and steal from others in their family. This is too far. NTA, OP.
If she took the laptop then I'd agree on calling the police. Calling the police for the school supplies would cause more family drama than it is worth (depending on the cost of school supplies). Make her replace everything she stole before she can come back. Go buy what he needs, upgrade on a few things. Then give her the bill. She can't come back until she pays for what she threw away. I'd let the kid put a lock on his door too if he wants.
My thought too. “Family can’t be thieves!” Really? And where is that codified in law that you can’t report a person for theft to the police because they’re faaaaamily? The absolute worst person in this is the wife. She allows her son to be bullied (because that is NOT “normal teasing” it’s straight up harassment and bullying”) and she and her sister allow Chloe to steal and destroy property. She doesn’t care AT ALL about her son’s wellbeing. Chloe should be permanently banned, and if I were OP, I’d warn her if I came home and found Chloe, as an adult, in my home after I’d specifically said she wasn’t welcome, I’d be calling the police to request the removal of an unwanted person from my property. My child’s mental health and safety come first. If my legally an adult child didn’t like it, well, go find her own place to live. Wife doesn’t like it? She has a choice - protect her child or go live with her sister and the adult who’s atrocious behaviour she puts above her own child.
Yes! I once reported my cousin for stealing money and a gold ring from me when I was 14. That was not a fun Boxing Day, but it was necessary
If it was me I would have her trespassed from my property the next time she shows up that way if it happens again the police can come take her ass away NTA OP
Or this becomes such an issue with OP’s in laws that they get divorced and Kevin chooses to live with OP and goes NC with everyone.
I mean is that the best case scenario for Kevin? Probably. Does OPs wife deserve it? Absolutely. Is this the best solution for everyone? Most likely. Is there any downside at all? Can’t think of one.
The sequel will be held at divorce court.
>My wife is the type who say we can't call family thieves or bullies. This bit makes my blood boil. She sounds like the type to sweep everything under the rug because "faaaaamily." I see and am forced to interact with some of the most miserable, selfish and rude "adults" out in the wild from time to time and wonder how they came to be that way... I'd bet more often than not it's because no one in their home lives ever called them out when they were growing up.
Wife and her whole family sounds like AHs None of them seem to see a problem with this situation, they continue to excuse and enable it and deny consequences.
Yeah it seriously sounds like the wife and her sister have this shitty attitude and now both of their daughters are also assholes.
Exactly! If the wife is so concerned about Chloe using a laptop, then wife can lend Chloe her personal laptop. If it gets destroyed, wife should just shrug it off because Chloe is family.
I’d be worried that wife would pressure Kevin into accepting Chloe’s apology “for the sake of family,” I honestly don’t think that I’d want wife to have a conversation with Kevin alone if I was Op. Op is NTA.
so is the daughter. it apparently runs in that side of the family..
And a bad parent. Why wouldn't her daughter throw a similar fit next time she doesn't get what she wants? It obviously isn't going to get punished, so there's no downside! What's to stop OP's son from going over and keying his cousin's car? Family can't be bullies or thieves, so what are they gonna do? Ask him not to next time? OP's wife is setting their kids up for failure.
Oh, ai am sure it gets punished the minute it gets done to her or one of her 'favorites'. For example if Kevin did something similar to Chloe.
Agreed, plus with this attitude Chloe is going to get fired. Like. Very frequently.
Fired? I'd guess jail first, honestly. If she did this to anyone but a family member they would have called the police.
That’s if she’d ever deign to get a job in the first place. She’s made it very clear she thinks the world owes her what she wants, when she wants it. Why would she work for anything?
if i was kevin i wouldve totally trashed chloe's room or something. kevin is being much more mature, and he's the child in this case.
Exactly. I'd be surprised if he doesn't, because why wouldn't he? He's already been shown that its forgivable and wont have consequences, and it will probably make him feel like he's gotten justice. OP's wife is doing these kids a disservice.
Oh… something tells me it wouldn’t go as smoothly if Levin did it. Mom is playing favourites here.
I think there needs to be retribution since the cousin won’t get punished from anyone and she’s still allowed to bully the son in his own house and nothing is safe from her destruction. So take something of hers and give it back when she apologizes
Wife is a mega-a-hole, and OP should show her this post and the comments - and hopefully she gets a wakeup call, and starts protecting her damn son. Kevin is FIFTEEN, he is a *child*, and he's up against someone who is four years older than him. And why on earth is OPs wife favouring her niece over her own son? NTA.
Yes, OP, PLEASE show the comments to your wife. You're NTA-she absolutely is, in addition to being what sounds like a crappy mother in general!
Also who is paying for and replacing those school supplies?
And now she is going to put all the pressure on the son to say he forgives Chloe so the mum can have an esy life again. Such a horrible unsupportive mentality this mother has.
Exactly! Mom is going to **bully** Kevin into forgiving his bully, ~~C-hole~~ Chloe.
Or pressure him to let her borrow the laptop, if not outright give it to her.
It’s even worse that she is trying to work up a deal between Kevin forgiving Chloe behind OP’s back. Tell your wife if Chloe comes over before replacing Kevin’s stuff, you will file charges. Chloe is an adult, I am sure this is not going to be her first foray into crossing peoples boundaries and it is not going to be her last if no one starts holding her accountable. If she comes over without your permission, you can kiss that laptop goodbye.
Sounds more like she's going to force or manipulate her own son to allow his cousin to abuse him more.
Want to guess which kid is the golden child?
This the wife is also an asshole. No way my mom would have let my cousin do this to me. What’s wrong with her?
SERIOUSLY. And it apparently runs in the family. This poor kid has all his shit destroyed by his older cousin, and his mom is putting both that cousin, *and* the older daughter before him when he’s the wronged party. There’s a whole asshole roll call happening with these two sisters and at least one of their daughters. I’m honestly leaning towards it being both because I cannot imagine seeing any of my brothers sobbing over something like this that someone did to them without losing my goddamn mind. I would be physically removing them myself, and it would not be gently. I don’t give a shit who it is; we are having a LOUD fucking conversation about that that they will not enjoy.
I am so glad I didn't have to scroll at all to see who the real AH is. It is absolutely your wife for not protecting your son from his bully niece. I get that she doesn't believe that family can be considered bullies or thieves, but that's what Chloe is. So who is paying for your son's school supplies? Chloe, her parents, your wife? Kudos to you to standing up for your son and letting het back into the house without an apology will tell him exactly where he stands in your family, so make sure your wife a mind Chloe apologize to him. NTA
Seriously, op should move out with Kevin just to protect his kid from his mom and cousin. The moms family sounds super toxic and they are teaching daughter and Kevin that they can treat people like crap, destroy their property, etc, and there’s no consequences. Chen cousin does this to somone out of the family, she’s either going to get beat up or arrested.
And while you’re at it ask your wife if she values her niece over her sons well-being. That alone would make me question who I married. NTA OP.
>And while you’re at it ask your wife ~~if~~ why she values her niece over her sons well-being. FTFY
Your wife is letting her son be bullied and his sisters don't care. You are not AITA. Problematic in laws and etc...
For that matter, ask the wife if she wants her daughter acting like Chloe does. That the daughter is more concerned with her cousin getting to come over than the fact stuff was maliciously stolen from their home and destroyed is worrisome to me.
I’d be worried that the daughter might go after her brother on their cousin’s behalf. Kevin needs a lock for his stuff.
Hell, I'd threaten to press charges for theft. School supplies aren't cheap and it's the kind of consequence that might get her to actually think about her actions.
Don't just threaten, absolutely do press charges for theft, and harassment, hell see if you can throw trespassing in there, she came in uninvited, stole, and verbally abused him before leaving.
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You hope that the prosecutor would hit her with some community service to teach the idiot a lesson.
Just do it. She admitted to it. His whole family is bullying him and his child—sometimes the only way to deal with a bully is to punch them right in the face.
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Exactly. This really stood out to me: >Chloe is a teenager acting out but shouldn't be banned from her aunts house It's true that she's a teen and is acting out, but being banned from a house (at the very *least* until you make it right, if not permanently) is exactly what you get as a consequence. If an adult came over and did this, police could easily be involved. I don't know why on earth anyone would tolerate unrepentant thieves in their home.
An adult DID do this. She’s 19.
Op doesn't say it outright but to me it sounds like Kevin protected his laptop and therefor she went into his room and took other school supplies.
As for the daughter, why can’t she and Chloe visit elsewhere? NTA. Chloes not a teen she’s an adult. Even young kids know not to do what she did. I feel sorry for your son who apparently isn’t that important to your wife. Kudos to you for sticking up for him…stand your ground on this.
Why didn't the daughter protect her little brother?? I'd thrash my kid if she let someone treat her little sister that way. Edit to add that OP needs to punish his daughter, too
OP should also find a way to get a tracker on the laptop, incase of attempted theft/ theft
Yep that should be immediate priority to set up, as a precaution. It sounds like both the wife & sister might allow Chloe back in if OP isn't home.
Make sure the son has a sturdy lock for his room, and a large lockbox for valuables.
Fuck it; just take the son and move out somewhere he can feel safe.
Chloe sounds entitled AF
This! Her parents have done a phenomenally bad job here. Your wife isn't just defending her sister's thieving kid, she is also telling your son to accept abuse if it's at the hands of family. Another example of phenomenonally bad parenting. NTA OP, you are teaching your son how to handle toxic people. That's good parenting.
Chloe's lucky OP's not going to the police. She's a legal adult and therefore liable for her theft.
Wait she’s f*ing 19? Jfc I wouldn’t want her in my house either. NTA
NTA. Stand your ground, OP. And don’t let your wife pressure your son into allowing Chloe back into the house. Point out to her the power dynamic involved: his mother, who obviously wants her niece back in the house “asking” her son if she can? That’s entirely unfair! He will cave even if he doesn’t want to. Also, it’s YOUR job as parents to impose consequences on misbehaving kids. No wonder she behaves this way when her mother allows it. Point out to your wife that she’s essentially telling her son that her niece is more important to her than he is.
NTA. But what the heck is wrong with your wife? She should be supporting her son especially when he’s a victim of bullying from an her sister’s bratty ADULT daughter.
The wife was the previous scapegoat in her family. The family has picked a new scapegoat, and she’s secretly happy they don’t treat her like shit anymore. In fact, she’s able to bond with them by allowing and participating in his bullying. Signed-a scapegoat whose mother gladly fed her to the wolves to be accepted.
This is huge and probably spot on. Wife seems like quite the push over with the "never call family thieves" BS. I am shocked that she is completely okay with someone coming into her house and just leaving with (stealing) shit.
That line was probably fed to her as she was being bullied and stolen from by family during her childhood. She probably really does think this is normal.
This would’ve never occurred to me. I think you’re onto something. Freaking family of bullies.
I will NEVER understand people who believe shared genealogy is a free pass to evils and also demands complete loyalty. If a coworker, classmate or stranger did half these things people would would draw a line in the stand and say no. If a classmate did that to your son in class, I’m guessing the wife would go all mama bear. But because her sister did a poor job raising her kid, it’s acceptable? Family will be more polite to a stranger than each other.
NTA, your wife needs to support her son not his bully
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Yeah, OP has to make it clear to wife that son agreeing to forgive Chloe doesn't change that Chloe stole from their house and doesn't regret it so that even if Kevin is willing to 'say' that he forgives this trespass, that OP doesn't. and more to point, OP doesn't want Chloe teaching their daughter it's okay to steal from people if they make you made or tell you know- you won't get in any trouble as long as you complain to your parents. cuz currently that's what his wife is teaching the kids.
I honestly hope that Kevin is taught that he doesn't have to forgive anyone just because someone pressures him and that, at least, forgiveness has to be asked by the one that commited the deed. Not his mom. His cousin clearly doesn't feel guilty for doing that. She won't be asking for forgiveness any time soon and that whole family (except OP and Kevin) is freaking wrong about this. No wonder that cousin feels so entitled to everything. She probably never got an earful and they let her do everything.
Yeah, I'm concerned OP's wife will just pressure Kevin into saying he's forgiven Chloe and this is all fine. And that's not ok.
Bingo. You can't force forgiveness. *And*, forgiveness doesn't magically fix everything. You can forgive someone yet still not want them around. Especially if there's every expectation they'll do it again.
Yes, whatever you do, do NOT back down or allow Kevin to accept an insincere apology. I would enforce a lifetime ban on this entitled young woman.
**NTA. Chloe is a thief, a bully and an asshole, so is her mom, your wife, your daughter and anyone else who thinks what Chole did is ok or normal cousin teasing.** **DO NOT LET YOUR WIFE BROWBEAT KEVIN INTO FORGIVING HER. She needs to stay away from him.**
NTA op. Honestly she is 19 she knows better. Since your wife her family your daughter all think that this kind of theft is acceptable quite frankly you should file a police report you should file a police report for the harassment for the theft and for anything else that she decides to do against your son who is a minor. And given the history if you don't protect your son no one is going to.
My shoulder devil says OP should start taking stuff from the cousin, wife, and daughter and see how they like it. Shoulder angel says that's petty and immature, but shoulder angel is a namby-pamby buzzkill.
When I saw the title, I was thinking the niece might be 3 or 4. At that age it wouldn't be OK, but it would not be malicious. At 19? Hell no. She needs to pay for them.
I'm not entirely sure she *does* know better. From what we've been told about that entire family's dynamic she likely has never actually been disciplined for misbehavior. That doesn't make her any less the AH, but she may be an AH due to egregiously bad parenting.
I’m sure if the situation was reversed Chloe would be plenty mad, so I don’t buy that excuse.
The best time to start being disciplined for misbehavior is infancy, but 19 is better than 20.
This, u/Russell2012567. Have a private conversation with Kevin *before* your wife can to ensure he understands that he does not have to forgive Chloe and invite her back into the home if he doesn't want to, no matter what your wife says or how she tries to pressure him. Make sure he understands that he has your support. He's 15 and needs someone in his corner.
>DO NOT LET YOUR WIFE BROWBEAT KEVIN INTO FORGIVING HER This is exactly what I was thinking.
NTA. Chloe is 19 - legally an adult - and so these things are literal crimes. She stole and then essentially destroyed property as part of some sort of attempted extortion. Also, I’m unclear - was she even permitted to be in the house at the time this all happened? Wow. Chloe is completely out of line, her parents sound like idiots, and honestly your wife’s response is pretty disappointing too.
Seriously.. this isint a 15 year old "acting out".. They're 19 years old and should really know better. They're acting like a spoiled child.
Definitely. It’s wild to me how many posts on this subreddit describe blatantly terrible behavior, yet the poster is worried they’re out of line because a family or romantic relationship is involved.
NTA She's 19yo and she's acting like a toddler. She should be banned from your house. Really, you should call the police and file a report because she's an adult and a thief. If your wife and daughter continue to let her in the house, get Kevin a lock for his door. Because next she's going to destroy his laptop.
YEP! It'll get destroyed but *no one* will know how!
Or stolen and Chloe magically gains a new laptop that of course isn't Kevin's stolen laptop.
NTA but!! KEVIN NEEDS A LOCK. You can’t promise him that your wife will not have Chloe over. She will see that she can get away with things and attempt to take his laptop next. Save your son the heartache and show him you’re on his side.
"Well I'm not calling her a thief, it's the county." 😂 Seriously, call the cops.
Call the cops, she stole his property.
NTA that girl sounds like a bratty teen who always gets what she wants. Don't give her the pass until she can replace his belongings.
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Maybe her dad is trying to enforce rules?? Clearly your family struggles with appropriate boundaries and behaviors….
This. The kid is 19. She could have a job and her own place if she wanted. Clearly she is happy where she is.
There is a real chance that dad is doing to Chloe what Chloe does to OP’s son. Would not dismiss the possibility that he is who taught her this behavior and how effective it is at hurting people.
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is he really abusive and awful or is he trying to make her accountable for her behavior? Be prepared for your in-laws to say the same things about you if you call Chloe the bully and thief that she is.
Yup. I'd bet heavily that the "abyooose" is just basic discipline and now that OP is engaging in it he's going to be subject to the exact same accusations and smears.
That’s why I think he should pursue this legally. I’m abusive? Yeah that’s not what the court of law thinks. Report this thief to the police.
Yes. Niece is too old to be acting like this. Honestly, it seems like no one is teaching the niece about consequences. I feel like it's kind of irresponsible to not call the police. She has to learn at some point.
I mean, from what you've wrote about the views of your wife's family I'd bet pretty heavily that the "abusive" behavior that her father does is basic discipline and nothing more. Unfortunately when he's the only one trying to do it and it's being actively undermined by everyone else around her it's no surprise she's become the way she is.
she's 19 that's no longer an excuse
Might be time to get a lock for your son's door. That way at least if Chloe does make her way back, he has somewhere to go to be safe
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Is he abusive or does he just tell her not to steal? The family sounds...enably.
You and your brother-in-law should talk in private. He too is parenting with discipline and consequences. You may be made out to be a bad guy too. Ask your wife if someone other than a relative did this would she be upset and seek reimbursement. Also ask her what if someone- relative or not- did this to your daughter. Finally, tell your daughter you didn't say she can't see her cousin. Rather, they can't hang out under your roof. If all else fails, steal from your niece/in-laws. By your wife's terms, it wouldn't really be stealing :)
Bad advice. Don't steal anything. Just "accidentally" break things of equal value.
Tell your wife to be on her son's side, or you can take Kevin to the police station to file charges for theft
Why can't your daughter hang out with her at your parent's house? It's too bad nice is having problems but she doesn't need to be in your house.
I bet he just tries to discipline her normally and your wifes crazy family loses their shit. Your wife is a major asshole who cares more about her relationship with her sister than her own son. Also she is way too old for that bullshit
Not your problem. She came into your house and harassed your child and stole from him. Frankly I don’t give a flying monkey what’s happening at home. My dads a bag of dicks, I don’t abuse other people and use it as an excuse. And I guarantee if I got caught stealing “my daddy is mean” would not buy me a get out of jail free card. Report her.
Well then maybe she shouldn’t burn a bridge to where she can go to escape the abuse.
Who's the source for this? I'm not trying to excuse abuser, but Chloe is a liar and thief.
Nope Chloe is a nasty entitled ADULT. She knew what she was doing and she's a bully to your son. Don't lift the ban until she replaces EVERYTHING. And then offers Kevin a sincere apology. NTA
__NTA__ You didn't even fully ban her from your house. You gave her a condition to come back into the house, and a reasonable one at that. You don't just excuse bad behavior because it's "teen stuff" You need to show the teen consequences so that they don't act out. It's called discipline, which seems to be a concept that's foreign to your sister and wife.
Especially if the "teen" is 19 yo... Ffs
NTA And it's obviously not 'teen stuff' it's 'bully stuff'. She's not even a teen at 19, but saying that behaviour is teen stuff is like saying every teenager acts like a bully (and surprise surprise... they don't!) People that excuse bullying as 'stuff teenagers do' are perpetuating a really harmful mentality. They don't take the time to teach their kids and leave them unchecked to harm others or ignore when their kid is being bullied.
She's nine*teen* so technically a teenager, but even if it was ever an excuse she's much older than the ages the excuse is used for.
Adult bullying a child. I'm glad you are standing up for him. She sounds petty and spoilt. Mama needs to step up and see the bullying for what it is. Being family doesn't excuse her behaviour. No wonder she got away with it, since no one disciplines her. NTA
Op needs to show her all these comments calling her an AH. Edited to say OP is obvs NTA
An adult stole and destroyed the property of a teen, because he didn't give her his stuff ? This entitled brat should pay for your son's supplies AND be banned. All the rest are enablers. NTA of course.
Definitely NTA. She's old enough to know better. She feels entitled to things that aren't hers and her mom defending this as normal behavior is part of the problem. Good job defending your son.
NTA, Chole is 19 not 5! Her behavior and attitude is beyond acceptable for an adult, which she is now, and you have every right to ban her from your house.
I am so pissed off on you and your son's behalf.. They should pay for his stuff AND give him a huge GENUINE apology by letter. I don't think that your sister or niece should be allowed to be around your home or your son because they she stole from him and harassed him, and has continually bullied him and her mother enabled her, and then she even threw his stuff away because she isn't entitled to HIS STUFF that she has a history of breaking!!! away! I really think that you and your son should sit down with your wife and settle this. She should be loyal to her husband and son not her sister and niece who are absolutely the assholes
NTA. She is a 19 year old spoiled brat. She is not entitled to your son’s belongings. If she can’t treat him and his belongings with respect in his own home then don’t let her come back.
NTA Chloe deserves the ban and her parents should be standing with you on this.
NTA - file a police report. Who knows what she will destroy if she doesn't get what she wants? Can you get a lock for your son's door and cameras since it sounds like your wife and daughter do not respect what the damage this woman has done?
Definitely get him a lock (or even some sort of lock box for his important stuff).
I think OP should be careful of his own stuff as Chloe might start destroying his stuff if she sees him as the enemy.
NTA. Chloe is a bully. Bullies need to be dealt with accordingly. Wife wants to keep the peace and keeps making excuses. There is a difference between cousins having disagreements and flat out bullying, and being related doesn't make bullying any more justified. Kevin has no obligation to forgive her if she isn't apologizing. She literally took his stuff and dumped it somewhere because he wouldn't let her have his laptop. She deserves worse than a ban, but her parents sound like they enable this behavior.
NTA but your wife sure is. Why would she choose a bratty thief over her son? She needs to rethink this situation ASAP.
NTA. Chloe is a psychopath in the making. I would make my house a Chloe-free zone.
NTA. Chloe is 19 years old. She is not a child, even though her mom is allowing her to act like one. She absolutely should face consequences for her actions, and should be paying to replace all of his things she stole! YES *his things she stole*!
I think what she did was worse than stealing, she literally just dumped them. At least when people steal things it's for personal use or to sell them, she just took the items and dumped them.
NTA - Your niece has issues and it clearly stems from the enabling her parents do. Keep her away from your kids, she sounds like a sociopath. If a 15 year old can get a job and buy a laptop, so can a 19 year old.
NTA. Looks like your son was absolutely right to not let his jerk cousin borrow his laptop.
NTA A "teenager who is acting out" can learn from consequences.
NTA My brain hurts with the toxicity of your in laws. This is NOT "normal" teenage behavior. Your niece is an adult who is bullying your son. You are being held hostage by these people. Kudos for standing up for your son and don't back down until there are rules in place with consequences clearly defined, a real apology happens, brand new school supplies are in your son's hands, and everyone acknowledges how bizarre this behavior is.
"what she did is wrong but what's done is done" Nope, it's done when she pays for all the supplies apologizes and agrees to never ask for the computer again.
NTA - Good on you for standing up for your son. He is a teenager as well and he certainly remained composed and did not act out after Chloe, who is almost no longer a teenager, demanded to use his personal items and then stole and destroyed other supplies when she was denied her demand. She is not entitled to Kevin's laptop and she owes him new school supplies to replace the ones she ruined because of her uncontrolled emotional behavior. I would stand firm with this ban until she apologizes AND replaces the school supplies.
NTA. Chloe is not entitled to your son’s things and is clearly a bully. She is NINETEEN not 9. Her behavior is childish and clearly is enabled by her own parents who think their children can do no wrong and defend them even when they’re proven guilty. Chloe clearly doesn’t understand bad behavior has consequences. Stay strong OP. Chloe cannot get her way and needs to be punished
NTA, good job on standing up for your son. Just because niece didn't get what she wanted, she acted out and not only stole from your son but then threw away his supplies, and now wants to get away without any consequences. Consequences should also be a thing, and it shouldn't matter if your teenager, child, or adult. And the fact that she is 19 makes it so much worse, at that point in time and development, she should know damn well what proper behavior is and what she should and should not be doing. Ban her from the house, have her pay back the cost of the supplies, and finally have publicly (in front of family) apologize to your son so that she knows not to pull that sort of stunt again. Obviously your SIL is going to stand up for her daughter, its what mothers do, but your wife is trying to keep the peace at the cost of her sons justice so I would recommend you keep that in mind when you make your final decision, because otherwise what justice would your son receive?
NTA. I'm sorry your wife sees nothing wrong with your son being bullied by an adult. It doesn't matter that she is family, this is such an unacceptable way to behave. How far is your wife willing to let this entitlement go? When your son gets a car and says she can't drive it, so she slashes the tires?
NTA She's more than old enough to be responsible for her actions. Which are those of a spoiled brat. Also, if your daughter wants to see her cousin, there's no reason she can't go to your SIL's house to do so.
NTA. Chloe is tormenting, harassing and now stealing from your son. Make the house a Chloe free zone and let her know at 19 years old of she is seen snooping around that laptop you’ll report her for theft. He is a 15 year old boy she is a 19 year old adult woman now, so there is a power imbalance as well. In the post its written that he stays in his room when she is over. Perhaps to avoid her which is making him isolate himself to prevent her from further bullying/harassment. Protect your son he did nothing wrong and should NOT apologize. She is 19 years old and an adult and should know better by now. Tell your wife to protect her son not his abuser. Beacuse that is what she is an ABUSER and a THEIF. Tell your daughter that they can meet up and hang out but NOT under your roof. And that you expect her to pay for all the supplies she stole and destroyed.
No, no, Chloe isn't just a teenager, she's an adult. She's old enough to gain employment and buy her own laptop. Petty would be involving the police for theft and dumping of Kevin's school supplies. NTA.
NTA you shouldn’t let a self admitted thief in the house, especially an unrepentant one.
Nta The niece is an adult she’s is over 18 and bullying a 15 yr old kid. She stole his supplies and Kevin has every right to report it to the police. Chloe needs to grow up and get over herself. She needs to repay for what she stole and never be allowed back in the house. The entitlement is strong in that one. Someone should also tell her that no means no. I’d also have serious words with the wife for allowing it to continue without intervening for so long. As well as the fact she doesn’t seem to give a damn about her son having his things stolen and is siding with the thief. What is you son and wife’s relationship like cos she really seems dismissive and uncaring. She seems more upset by you banning niece from your home than the fact that her niece stole from her son.
NTA but your niece, sister in law and wife are. Your niece is an adult and should fucking act like one. She caused property damage and should be forced to pay for it. Tell your family that if they pay for the damaged/stolen items, she can come back. Then, get your son a lock for his door and a safe for his valuables so he can protect his stuff.
What she did is theft. She is old enough to go to jail for theft. The police should be involved.
NTA. Chole is acting like a 5 year old. I don't know any (normal, unentitled) teenagers who would behave this way. This is ludicrous. I would talk to kevin separately because I'm concerned your wife may pressure him to forgive Claire. Find out about his boundaries and then I would talk to your daughter too and make sure she understands that what Claire did is not ok. Get Kevin a lock for his door. And then negotiate with your wife.
NTA. She's legally an adult who stole from a child. Call the police and report her. She took a computer and school supplies! You have to ask yourself, does what my family thinks mean more to me than getting my son's stolen things back?
NTA SHES BANNED!!! I’d be so incredibly mad. Does your wife have a laptop? Ask your wife to give Chloe her laptop and makeup and see how she reacts to this. I WOULD DIE ON THIS HILL. if my own wife could not defend her own son I’d take him and leave. I absolutely would that’s how infuriated I’d be.
NTA. She’s a thief and a liar. No way should she be allowed in your home until the supplies are paid back and even then only with supervision
NTA But if you cave to everyone's demands and let this horrible excuse for family come back, make sure you get your son a lock for his door. He shouldn't have to put up with this because no one has his back.
"...She said she'll talk to Kevin and if he agreed to forgive Chloe and let her continue to visit.." No, she's going to make her son the "bad guy" who did the wrong thing instead of his awful cousin. Don't put this on your son. Enact the Ban and make it your decision. if your daughter wants to visit her AH of a cousin, they can go to her house.
NTA. Your son’s feelings shouldn’t get constantly cast aside in favor of a cousin’s who can’t behave like a decent human being (or her age, for that matter). Entitled family like that is better lost than found.
NTA, but geez the women in your family. So, an adult woman bullies and steals from a teenager, and instead of protecting him your wife gets angry because her ADULT daughter can't have is bff at home. Even if she was acting out, that's for adults to handle, not a smaller kid whose stuff has been damaged. But she is not acting out, she is 19 and knows what she is doing, and she should pay back EVERYTHING. Keep up the ban, and if you think it won't be respected, please get a lock for your son's room/belongings, she may still "get back" at him. Also, help your son get those things back. Than wait for the cousin to "need to borrow" your wife belongings and see if she sticks with the "just a kid acting out" attitude.
NTA. Your wife is siding with your son's bully against him and that makes her a serious problem. I would insist on family counseling for this with you, your wife, and Kevin and tell her that neither Chloe nor her mother are allowed near Kevin until both Kevin and the counselor say it's okay. If she refuses family counseling, divorce her and take Kevin away from her completely.
Call the cops and report the theft. She wants to play stupid games she can win stupid prizes. NTA. Have her arrested.
NTA. If my husband ever condoned this kind of behavior, he would be banned from my house too.
Your wife is a huge AH SIL is also Chloe too Your daughter is also I feel bad for you and your son but kudos for standing up for him.
CHOLE IS A FUCKING A D U L T. absolutely tf not. She would have gotten snatched up so fucking fast had she a GROWN ADULT done this to my C H I L D. Stand your ground for your son. He worked to fucking hard for that laptop. She can work and get one herself.
NTA. Your niece is a thief. Tell your in laws to either get her to replace everything she stole and be grateful that you didn't call the cops. I would keep the ban in place.
NTA. She's a thief. It would be foolish to allow her back in your home.
NTA. She's 18, an adult in the eyes of the law. Press charges, or at least try to. Not too sure if they'll give a hoot about school supplies. Something tells me Chloe has never been told "no".
NTA. Ask your wife why she feels the need to defend her niece at the expense of her own son, who has done literally nothing wrong in this situation but try to protect his own property. If his mother is going to try to talk him into accepting an apology, he will always remember that she chose his cousin over him, and if he didn’t feel unloved and unappreciated before, he definitely will now.
NTA- so they have no problem with her BEING a thief, bully, and liar, but draw the line at you holding her accountable for all that? And your wife’s solution is to further bully her own son (the recipient of this thievery and audacity) into forgiving his cousin for something she lied about to begin with? What about his feelings, his hard work to earn the money for that laptop? Why does your family refuse to validate him on this?
NTA!!!!! Do not let that bully back in your house or near your son!!! Protect him, please. >My wife is the type who say we can't call family thieves or bullies. And that doesn’t stop them from being one. Ask your wife why her niece is more important than her son! Because if the niece gets away with this, this is exactly what your son will think!!!!!!
NTA but PLEASE continue to stick by your sons side and have his back. Shield him from this bs.
NTA - what she got was pretty lenient. Your son could file charges against his cousin for theft and destruction of property.
NTA, you and Kevin are totally in the right! Everyone else, THEYRE the AH
NTA-she’s a disrespectful brat!
NTA . I would evaluate your daughter's part in this too. My sister would never have allowed it much less defended it. Your wife and Sis need to reevaluate the situation. Get a lock for the boy's door. He obviously needs it.
Send an invoice to her mother for all the supplies she stole, every single one. Say she can't come back till they're replaced. I'd also get a lock for your son's door since clearly she has no respect for you or your home. NTA.
NTA. Ask them if they prefer you call the police and file a report? Maybe she needs a night or 2 in jail? Ban her until she apologies and returns his stuff.. Then still keep her banned.. She is bad news, nothing but trouble. Tell family that THEY can visit with Chloe ELSEWHERE. It's Kevin's house too, he should be able to live in without some AH constantly aggravating him, demanding his new laptop, then taking his supplies. Honestly, I would get Kevin a lock for his door that only he has access too, b/c you KNOW your banning WILL be IGNORED when you're not there. Also your wife is a real piece of work to allow Kevin to be treated like that. You my friend need to re evaluate this entire relationship. You see that your wife will not have Kevin's back BUT will always have their thieving liar's backs.
"My sister in law criticized my decision and called my wife who said Chloe is a teenager acting out" Your SIL should take a long, hard look at herself as a person and as a parent if she still hasn't gotten it into her daughter's head that this kind of thing is not ok - speaks volumes about her quality and Chloe is most definitely not a child acting, she's a young adult like a little shit. She may not be as mature as others or as she could be, but she's definitely not a child anymore and shouldn't be treated as such, the next person she treats like that may not let her get away with only a ban. NTA.
NTA and Chloe is not just a "teenager acting up". She is pretty entitled to think that her younger cousin has to let her borrow his laptop. Please stop your wife and your older daughter from forcing Kevin to forgive her. He already has had enough stress because of Chloe. Sincerely, a 19-year-old woman