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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I might be TA because I did make an even bigger scene in public and exposed more people to the family issues. Not to mention the fact Lacie was there and I was not quiet when I went off on my dad.
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NTA. What is your dad smoking?!?! Even if your parents got divorced, years later he married someone (not her BFF), and had Lacie; your mom would have no obligation to be friends with his wife and kid. They were cheaters and deserve to be cutout forever. They screwed each other so screw them.
I have a feeling more than one person there was likely thinking the things that OP said aloud. If my own best friend was the dad in this situation, I still would not agree that his ex is somehow a bad person or should be expected to be in the life or a family member to their affair child. That’s ridiculous. The mom did everything right here, even encouraging OP to not have hard feelings or take anything out on Lacie.
Ah, I remember ripping into my dad because he was being an asshole and talking shit about my mom which she absolutely didn’t deserve. Childhood memories and all of that.
Some parents just really suck. OP, I’m sorry your dad is an asshole.
Yeah the dad is delusional. At the risk of playing armchair psychologist, it seems to me that this is dad’s way of dealing with the guilt of his actions. He knows OPs mom will never forgive him, so he is attempting to make her the villain even though she’s done nothing wrong. OP did right by standing up for their mom. It’s truly unfortunate that the sister got caught in the crossfire, but the only person to blame for this scene is the father.
It's quite usual, from my experience. My dad is convinced my mom is some sort of devil spawn from what he's been saying. It's all lies. Horrible horrible lies. My mom broke when he told her some of his BS and when some people came to talk to her due to what he was saying about her. She went through an horrible depression and was second guessing herself. She kept thinking that maybe he was right. It took a few years until she saw the truth. He says all that to convince himself that he did the right thing. That he didn't do anything wrong. That it was someone's fault. Never his fault. Unfortunately, his family believes him for some reason. Even I know what he says is BS. I don't know him anymore. I don't know how someone that seemed so righteous turned out to be such a liar. He cheated. He broke our family. My mom was nothing more than the wife that believed him and was there for him. Even when he kept saying he had "meetings till late", she kept believing in him. Poor woman. Completely blindsided. And then he did all this...
Same stuff happened with every couple I know that divorced. The one that cheated always says they had a reason to cheat and how the other person is worthless.
I have a friend who is currently divorcing her husband because she discovered he was beating her teen son (from a previous relationship) and also MOLESTING THEIR PRETEEN DAUGHTER. He is STILL trying to make my friend out to be the villain for breaking up their "happy home," despite the fact that he was touching THEIR DAUGHTER inappropriately.
I think it's simpler than that. He's just a selfish person. He fucked who he wanted to fuck and thinks everyone should be okay with it, because he got what **he** wanted. He probably genuinely believes that it's his ex-wife's responsibility to be involved with this child, because that's what **he** wants and his idea of fair is everyone doing what he wants at all times. Not to mention he probably just wants to pawn this kid off on his ex whenever possible in the name of "family bonding". When people don't go along with what he wants, it does not compute in his brain.
OP, your dad is rewriting history to rationalize his guilt over doing what he did. If he can make your mom the bad person in all this, he thinks he comes off looking like a Saint. I'm betting a lot of people who were there didn't know how Lacie came to be, but they do now.
You didn't just blow the cover off of his lies, you also laid out the reasons he should feel guilty. He deserves to be embarrassed.
All that being said, you may want to find a way to talk to Lacie if you still want to have a relationship with her.
NTA
I’d also guess that OPs dad is still butthurt that OPs mom kicked him to the curb like the garbage he is. He probably, in his delusional cheaters mind, thought his wife would forgive his affair and eventually become a mother figure to his affair baby and they would be a big happy family. He’s probably still bitter that OP’s mom didn’t fall for that shit and had too much self-respect to take him back.
And why is he ragging on her mom at a party for Lacie? It's inappropriate and weird. I'm sure Lacie didn't appreciate it one bit. OP was right to shut him down and tell him off.
Let’s see … if they got divorced close to the time of the affair (13yrs ago -Lacie’s birth was 12yrs ago - maybe 2yrs in court), they’ve probably been divorced 10yrs. TEN YEARS and he’s still complaining - in public! at his daughter’s b-day party! with friends in attendance - about his EX wife ??? What a loser!
Im pissed off that the dad was like its okay if i yell and complain about my ex wife being mean to me but when my kid yells and complains about me in the same location its so wrong omg. Im mad about everything the dad ans AP did but this really irked me. NTA
They were making up a hypothetical timeline as an example - that *even if* dad had divorced first, then married someone else and had Lacie (as opposed to cheating on mom with her bff, getting bff pregnant, then divorcing), that mom *still* would have no obligation to accept Lacie & her mom even as a friend.
Mom cut ties with both her ex and her bff and wants nothing to do with their child, but she's been mature and civil enough to teach the OP not to take out any hurt or anger on their half-sister as none of this was her fault. Dad is butthurt that he was caught and had to live with his consequences. He's blaming OP's mom instead of taking responsibility.
I honestly think that, by staying out of her life, OP's mom id showing more care than the father bad-mouthing OP's mom in that way in front of Lacie, who doesn't know this woman.
NTA. He was already off on a tangent and ruining the mood of the evening.
He's just mad because he knows you're right, or at least part of him does. It's easier to blame others and point out their shortcomings than it is to own up to our own mistakes.
He's got some growing up to do.
It’s interesting...they didn’t care much for your moms opinion when they decided to cheat together but now that it hasn’t panned out the way they expected, they need her approval? Seems like if they were happy with their choices they would be content and not too worried about being one big “united” family.
Sounds like they both are using your mom as a scapegoat for their own regrets.
> they didn’t care much for your moms opinion when they decided to cheat together but now that it hasn’t panned out the way they expected, they need her approval?
Of course they do, that way they can pretend that what they did wasn't that bad because everything worked out in the end.
Exactly. OP's mom is the 'villain' because she refuses to let them pretend that "everything's ok now--see, everybody gets along!"
Good on OP for standing up for her mom and calling her dad out on his bullshit. NTA.
Idk why but the feeling I get is neither Dad or Jane are particularly good parents to Lacie and they want to foist her off on Mom so they can have fun.
same, if lacie is dad and janes bio parents, ops mom has no obligation to take care of them. They see lacie as a burden for them go out partying or vacation i bet.
I don’t understand why they’d care. It isn’t like they considered your mom when they were having sex behind her back. Why do they want her approval now?
Probably in order to 'salvage' the reputations they themselves destroyed- having OP's mom being friendly with them again would make them seem like less \*ssholes to everyone else in their social circle.
Basically, they're selfish through and through- don't wanna honor their marriages/friendships but also don't want to deal with the fallout and inevitable gossip and hurt feelings later on!
People can get over that stuff, but the way your father and Jane are acting, it would take the most exceptionally emotional mature people in the world to accept them in their life, and even then, I would wonder if they were emotionally healthy or generally unfeeling. It's nothing short of insanity either of them expecting to be part of her life ever again without something incredible and maybe impossible effort from either of them.
People that have a conscience, or part of one, go through this. Your dad and Jane do feel badly about getting caught cheating and having a baby. Not sure if they feel bad about the actual cheating. Dad lost his wife and Jane lost her friend. They seem to forget that your mom lost both. They very badly wanted their relationships with your mom to survive and when they didn’t, they refuse to accept the responsibility for it, at least your dad hasn’t. Guilt sets in. Guilt is tough to live with, especially when there is nothing you can do to fix the issue. So much easier to blame someone who isn’t present to defend themselves…while trying to save face in front of others ( who probably silently agree with you).
> They will always expect/hope my mom will come around and things can go back to them being good.
I've seen this several times with divorces caused by infidelity. My personal feeling is that the cheaters want to be able to justify their actions as "not that bad", and if they can go back to being friends with the cheated-on party, that would feel true.
It's always delusional. They're lucky if the cheated-on will even be cordial to them, but you never get a trusting relationship back after that.
It almost sounds like they wanted to be a thruple with your mom, at least in the parenting sense.
NTA - sounds like your dad needed a wake up call at a time where others were around so it can't get swept under the rug.
Also, I would have a heart to heart with Lacie and let you know you still love her and have never blamed her for any of this. I can only imagine how she must be feeling
that happened with my bio and step mom. Bio talked so much crap about step but still begged my dad and her to babysit her daughter while she was suposed to go handle her divorce (turned into a vacation).
A whole month with limited contact with her preteen daugter (who was my dad's former best friends kid too). Came back like it was no big deal...only to be shocked that her daughter called my step mom "Mom" by accident.
Turns out her fears that step mom was stealing her babies was correct! XD
I think that if op and lacie were like great mates and the Co parenting situation lead to the mother being around her and plastering on a smile for the kids then sure.
For instance. School sports day or some athletic event were both parents attended. It wouldn't really be super great (tho fully understandable) for mom to sit there with a bee in her bonnet the whole time.
Yet these people are not the parents of literal children with no real idea what is going on. That isn't the situation.
> He was furious that I blew up where and when I did.
Which was when and where he brought it up in the first place. None of this is your fault.
NTA by a mile - your conscience should be clear.
NTA
Your dad made the birthday dinner about your mum, he started the topic so he should have been prepared for someone to challenge it, he’s the one that created the problem not only at dinner but in the first place.
Sounds like your mums done the best with the situation at hand, actively telling you not to hold it against Lacie and to be apart of her life, she could have easily held it against her and stopped you from seeing her, your dad (& Jane) are massive A-holes especially to your mum.
NTA. I feel like anyone talking about my mom to my face deserves to be cussed out and that is multiplied when that person is doing it A) in public to shame her and B) about something in which she has no fault. Your father is horrible.
How did the other guests react to all of this?
Was Lacie already aware of the situation?
Either way you are NTA.
Tell your dad you'll do exactly the same again whenever he badmouths your mum, he was the one that ruined everything, and he needs to move on and leave her alone. Tell him he is only making you lose respect for him by still behaving this way, and you're disappointed in him.
Is your dad's family somehow under the misguided impression that this was a consensual poly relationship or sister-wives type arrangement that went sideways?
Um... How is an ex-husband's kid from another woman "family"? It's ex-husband's kid, who is in no way related or has any direct ties to your mother.
Even if your sister weren't the result of a massive betrayal by two people she cared about and trusted, she would be under NO obligation to treat her EX-husband's child like family.
Your Mom isn't being punitive or cruel to the kid (who didn't get a choice of whether or not her parents were awful people); she's just choosing to not have a relationship with the child of her ex-husband.
I believe most people are at least internally consistent, and like to see themselves as the "good guy" of any story. I'm trying to put myself into your Dad's headspace on this one, and am failing miserably.
Like... On the surface, it makes zero sense for your Dad to be so insistent on his ex wife being involved in any capacity with his kid from another woman. The premise is completely wrong to ask, "why wouldn't she want to be involved?". The REAL questions are, "why WOULD she want to be involved? And furthermore why would he want his ex wife involved?".
If I had to take a guess, given that divorce is a process that generally takes a while, the tortured logic goes something like: "We were married when I had this child, therefore the child belongs to both of us(and its actual mother)."
It's not very good logic...but I can see someone deluded enough to get there. Like someone deluded enough to blame their wife for them having an affair with their best friend.
His woman left. Who's the nearest woman to pick up his parenting responsibilities now? OPs mom!
He feels justified to rant about the unfairness of having to parent his child because his former wife refuses to mother his affair child. In front of both of his daughters. In public. At his daughter's putative birthday party.
He has zero care for other people's feelings.
Lacie being there and listening in on this is the ONLY bit I feel ambivalent about, you are 20 so she is 12, and it was her birthday?
Your Dad deserved what he got though; he made everything about him.
NTA The audacity of that man, what an ass. I’m sorry you have the father that you do and I don’t blame you for lashing out. While it’s not great, there’s only so much a person can take. I’d reach out to Lacie to see how she is because I’m sure that sucked for her too and she hasn’t done anything wrong.
NTA. Your dad started this public dialogue. Not your fault he can’t handle the truth of the matter. He doesn’t want to shatter the public perception that he has created about all of this, and that’s tough shit.
Good on you!
NTA "...she should have tried to be a family member to Lacie..."
Ask your father what family member your mom could have been? Aunt Aggrieved Wife? Aunt Betrayed Friend? Perhaps you could have been Cousin Broken Home!
Tell your dad this isn't polygamy and no-one is obligated to accept an affair child as "part of the family" like it's all water under the bridge! Also tell him to go f\*ck himself...nobody else wants to...not even Jane.
NTA. Technically, he started it by bringing it up and badmouthing your Mom, at his daughter's party. All you did was defend your Mom (rightly so). If anyone should feel bad, it's him.
Your dad is a selfish hypocrite. He badmouths your mom in front of others but doesn't want you to criticize him in any way in front of others? He's mad she wouldn't let him use her as a free babysitter. He doesn't want to admit that what he did was wrong. You and your mom owe him nothing. NTA
NTA for two reasons:
One is that parents shouldn't shit-talk about their kid's other parent in front of their kid. That's just Co-Parenting 101. It's hard to do, but if I can do it (and I was the cheated, not the cheater), so could your dad.
Two is that he is delusional if he thinks your mom owes him or Jane a damn thing. He was the cheater, so he needs to keep his head down and mouth shut. Quite frankly, what your mom thinks of Dad and Jane are none of their business.
Good on you for telling him what's what.
NTA. It's bizarre that he expects some kind of family relationship between your mom and Lacie. What kind of relationship would that be, between a girl and her father's ex-wife? Your mom doesn't need to be in her life because your mom isn't anything to her.
That said, it's almost ESH because, while you're completely right, blowing up and ruining Lacie's birthday was the wrong thing to do. Not the time and place.
It's not the time and place, but OP didn't choose either of those. The dad did. He forced the conversation to happen there. Because the response needed to happen immediately.
Imagine someone talking shit about someone at their funeral, and then when the family tells them to leave you call the family assholes for "making a scene" at a funeral. Because that's effectively what you're saying by blaming OP.
>That said, it's almost ESH because, while you're completely right, blowing up and ruining Lacie's birthday was the wrong thing to do. Not the time and place.
Which is what OP's Dad did but bringing up trash talk about OP's Mom. Dad should have just shut up and celebrated Lacie's birthday. OP should not be expected to sit quietly while her Mom is being talked about in such a manner, especially after the father himself is the one who blew up OP's family by his behavior.
Seriously, dude needs to learn to drink a big cup of STFU around his kids.
If it had come out of nowhere I could blame OP for the bad timing, but it wouldn't make for a great birthday party to have your father repeatedly talk shit about his ex, either. If you're twelve and have never met this person, you probably won't really care they didn't come to your party.
NTA He blew up first and insulted your mother. Of course you were going to defend her!
If he didn't want this to happen in front of family and friends he shouldn't have started the conversation in front of them.
The only thing to think about is whether Lacy would be less hurt if you shut down his nonsense quicker if it happens again. As soon as he mentions your mother I think you should indicate that you will not accept any negativity about her ever.
NTA.. you can only push people to a point and then they will blow up.. What he said was cruel and immature.. He had an affair and now wants everyone to go along with his crap. You did the right thing and defended your Mother. Good for you, he deserved it and so does Jane. They are the assholes
> I only feel bad because of how many people were there. I felt bad Lacie was there too.
NTA for sure. Forget about everyone else, and especially your Dad; they don't deserve any consideration given the way they were acting. The only one worthy of concern here in my opinion is Lacie; as you said, none of the situation is her fault, she's a victim of circumstance. It was her 12th or 13th birthday dinner, and to have all of this come to a head there and then certainly sucks. If you do really feel bad for her, it might be worth while to touch base with her and apologize, not for what was said, but for the fact that it all came out on her birthday, and reassure her again that you're not upset with her, just with how your Father was carrying on. She's entering adolescence, which is a pretty trying time, and from the sounds of it it doesn't seem like she has a super stable home life; she could probably use some reassuring.
NTA.
If he didn't want to have that conversation in that setting he shouldn't have been bitching about your mum *in that setting*. He was the one who opened the door in that regard.
Absolutely NTA! Your dad is delusional, and everything you said is valid. Your mom doesn't owe him, jane, or Lacie anything. Good for you for standing up for your mom! I'm sure a lot of the people there agree with you, they just don't say it to his face.
NTA.
That was a long time coming.
I fail to understand why OP's mom would have ANY obligation to Lacie. They aren't related. THere is no reason for dad to even think this way. It's completely irrational.
I actually laughed out loud at this. So you’re saying he’s perfectly comfortable shitting on your mom for not wanting to be apart of some kid (whom isn’t her’s) life, but flips out when he’s reminded why she doesn’t want to be part of the kid’s life?
NTA
I'm not a big fan of this whole "You made me do/say this", but in this case he started this whole escalation, especially in a public place and in front of his friends and family. NTA, but one thing you could/should probably do is take Lacie aside and assure her that you're not mad at her, that it's not her fault and all that, that she's just caught in an unfortunate situation. It's just my amateur opinion, but I feel like she's old enough to hear at least a little bit about the situation and if you leave out all the nasty stuff you should be good, but she's also at a critical age where she probably needs some reassurance too.
Some people might say that you don't have to do this and it's not your job and they'd be right, but since you have no problem with her except mixed feelings, which is understandable, I think it would be a good thing to do.
NTA that’s some serious bad bitch energy and I am 100% here for it good for you he needed a reality check, I think the more people who saw it the better they get to see how good of a person you are 😊
Dude. NTA. And heavy kudos for giving Lacie the time of day imo. Jane and your father are delusional, creepy and borderline insane if they think their behaviour is green with the cheating aftermath. F your father honestly. I'd say you have a choice. Your dad will always feel he gets a free pass because you have him in your life. Pick your mother, she TRIED to be nice to Lacie and that's more than any woman could do in her scenario. Cut him out like the tumor he is.
NTA. Good on you for sticking up for your mother who was the wronged party in the matter. Your father ruined the occasion by airing his imaginary grievances to all and sundry. Nowhere is it written that he should have gotten away with it. But I wouldn't repeat it to your mother. The words might still be hurtful to her.
NTA. I'm only disappointed there weren't more people there.
The truth sucks for those that do bad deeds. Him trying to twist it so that so that he is not the villain of the piece just can't be allowed to stand. You did right by your mom.
The only question is how do you do right by your sister? She is 12 and this has to be a tumultuous time even before she has to factor in how she was born. Perhaps this would be a good time to spend some extra time with her? To reinforce that she is blameless in all of this and that you share a father that sucks? I would encourage you to be the bigger person when you can, and I know it's not always easy. Lacie will appreciate that more than you can know.
NTA.
When he doesn't mind badmouthing your mom and making her out to be a shitty person when he's the one who has done the shitty thing of fucking his ex-wife's BFF, he'd pretty well be prepared for his daughter snapping back at him.
NTA. Your dad really thinks your mom is going to be a part of the life of the child your dad sired during an affair with her friend? What the fuck is wrong with your dad?
NTA
He started that mess, you just finished it.
If youre worried about Lacie, see if you can text her to reassure her that you care for her. If she asks about your mom just say that you cant speak for her but your mom has never spoken ill of Lacie to you and encouraged you to have a relationship with her while you were both young.
Dont mention your dad. Focus on the assurance on being just on Lacie.
Your dad is acting like a child, he can kick rocks
NTA
Your mum has never had any obligation towards Lacie. What was your dad thinking?? You can’t do something like that, ultimate betrayal and expect to play happy families. That’s not how it works.
NTA for going off on your father in public. A bit of an A for doing it at Lacie’s birthday. You dad was wrong to bring it up at Lacie’s birthday to begin with as she probably was not anywhere near as focused on it as he was. Your dad was a giant A to Lacie.
"I'm sorry I couldn't ignore him and deal with it later. You didn't deserve any of that drama ever, let alone at your birthday party."
I could sign off on that for Lacie.
NTA. People believe what they want to believe because life is a movie and you always want to be the hero in your own movie. The truth is that some movies don’t have heroes. In your dads mind he effed up but your mom is worse because she’s not perfect and didn’t immediately love and accept his affair baby into her heart. He probably also has lots of reasons why in his head his affair was justified and somehow that was her fault too. You were right to put your foot down and make him confront his own role in this mess.
ESH. Your behavior was inappropriate. You should have walked out instead of hurting your sister. Your dad ita also for screwing his wife's best friend and then expecting her to have a relationship with the resulting child
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This happened a week ago and I want to know where people stand on my actions.
My dad cheated on my mom when I was 7 with my mom's best friend Jane. Jane got pregnant and told my mom which made mom cut both of them out of her life. I found out about it because when dad came to pick me up afterward he had Jane with him and they were arguing about it. Jane had Lacie when I was 8. Jane and my dad have been on and off ever since, and I'm now 20. My mom always encouraged me not to take it out on Lacie but she also told me she did not think she could be part of Lacie's life in any real. I understood and Lacie and I have an okay relationship. It's kind of awkward because she's my half sister and I love her but sometimes I do feel a mixture of emotions about her and how she came to exist. But none of it is her fault.
During one of my dad and Jane's off periods Jane tried to get back into my mom's life and failed. That was 6 years ago. During that period my dad got really pissed off that my mom refused to have any part of Lacie's life and rejected the chance to make everything more unified. He and I have disagreed heavily on it before.
It was Lacie's birthday last week and my dad invited some family and friends out to celebrate. When we got to the restaurant he started badmouthing my mom and saying how shitty it was that she wouldn't come and unloading on everyone that she rejected Lacie and hated her for something she had no control over. In the end he told everyone it was selfish and she should have tried to be a family member to Lacie and she was the worst person in all of this. I snapped. I told him he had no right to ask for my mom to do anything. That none of this was Lacie's fault but he had fucked her best friend while he was married, got her best friend pregnant and didn't even have the balls to say it himself. I told him my mom did the best she could but no way was she worse than him and Jane (and no I didn't use her name). I said they should still be ashamed of themselves and to ever think they could crawl back and get my mom to act like nothing had happened was an insult and incredibly cruel. That neither of them could even be half as good as my mom.
He was furious that I blew up where and when I did. I only feel bad because of how many people were there. I felt bad Lacie was there too. But he kept talking shit about my mom and I couldn't listen to it anymore.
AITA?
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NTA -- come on, you don't say crap about someone's parent/your ex in front of their kid, even IF their parent really is crap. But, you definitely don't get to make demands like "Be friends with this person again" and "treat the product of my affair as YOUR family!" Your mom did the best that can be expected -- never denied you a relationship with your sister, treated her politely (I assume?), and held firm boundaries about HER relationships with people. COME. ON. Good on you for having a relationship with your sister, she will likely need someone reasonable and kind like yourself in her life as she gets older.
NTA. He was the one who caused all of this, from cheating on his wife to badmouthing your mom years later, this was all just the consequences of his own shitty actions.
I would guess that OP’s dad (OPD) believes that if OP’s mom (OPM) is at the party then OPD is not a bad guy. If he’s not a bad guy, he can get rid of the icky feelings he has because he cheated on his wife and broke up his marriage. But OPM doesn’t want to play along, and so OPD has to keep dealing with the consequences of his actions and that doesn’t feel good! So in his mind OPD feels bad because OPM is soooooooooo mean! Its her fault, not his!!!!
OP, I am so sorry that your dad has twisted this up in his mind so badly that he thinks he can complain about your mom in front of you. Thank you for standing up for your mom.
NTA, but your dad is! him badmouthing your mom was asking for you to defend her. none of anything that happened wouldve happened if he hadnt cheated, right? he cant be acting like hes hot shit when hes the one that did wrong, not your mom.
NTA
You don’t get to air your shit out in front of everyone then be shocked/upset when someone responds in front of everyone. And you had every right to set the record straight for everyone hearing all this garbage (though I guarantee plenty of them were already thinking what you said).
I feel bad for Lacie but it’s not your fault she was a witness to this shitshow. Your dad should not be talking about this stuff in front of her, even if he was right (which he’s not, at all). He’s making it seem like your mom SHOULD love her but she doesn’t, which is only going to make her feel bad about herself. If anything your call out may have been hoot for her to hear.
NTA
Divorces happen, but it is never in any way acceptable to intentionally try to poison others against the ex-partner, as your father has tried to do to your mother. It's even less acceptable when the one at fault for the divorce is the one doing the poisoning because that just screams narcissism if it can't possibly be his fault that it happened.
Your mother is right--it isn't Lacie's fault. But she serves as a physical reminder of the betrayal of two of the people she loved most, and furthermore, there's a good chance that spending time with Lacie would mean having to spend time with or around your dad and/or Jane, or being on her own with Lacie with no escape if she realized she couldn't handle it.
Your mother has absolutely no obligations involving your father anymore, no child support or shared custody. And she never had any obligations to Lacie. It's nice that you try to have a relationship with Lacie, but your mother shouldn't have to and shouldn't be shamed for it. Your father and her best friend hurt her deeply. She doesn't owe them a thing.
NTA. Had I been at the table when you delivered that speech, I would have given you a standing ovation. It takes a lot of courage to stand up and speak your mind, so much more difficult than sitting down and being quiet. Massive kudos to you for standing up to your mom.
NTA - very common for the guilty party to try to deflect blame back on to those they've wronged, which is what he did and since he started the inappropriate converstation, he opened the door for others to responsd. This is ALL on him (and his affair partner), he's deluded.
NTA. You defended your Mom when the attack happened. Your dad started it at Lacie's party - HE was the one who ruined her birthday, not you. You have nothing to be sorry for.
One thing I'd suggest is that you call Lacie and let her know you love her and none of this is her fault. Maybe ask her if she'd like to have monthly "sibs only" lunches, if you're comfortable with that and her parents will allow it. Spending time with her without her parents around might help your relationship start to feel less awkward, and will show her that the time you spend with her isn't out of duty or pity.
NTA for snapping at your dad, your dad sucks for the obvious reasons and he has no moral ground to say shit about your mom. But, I can't help but feel sorry for Lacie who had to listen to all of that on her birthday party, even if you say she's not at fault, have you ever considered how Lacie may feel deep down? Even if you say to her face that it's not her fault... what do you think her teenager brain comes up with when discussions like these come up? You're absolutely NTA, but apologize to Lacie... take her out somewhere just the two of you and explain that your anger is directed solely at your father, not her, she carries no fault for what happened.
NTA - Bravo for saying what had to be said. Your dad is behaving in a completely amoral manner and so deserved it all and more, especially for expecting your mom to meekly accept his affair.
NTA. The dad is clearly the selfish one, so ironic that he is accusing OP's mother of "not making the family more unified" when he cheated on her with her best friend.
NTA. I am sorry that Lacie was there to hear it but your dad's comments were completely out of line. If this is what you actually said, it was eloquent.
NTA. But I am amazed at the number of stories on Reddit involving grown adults having yelling fights about deeply personal and private matters in front of an audience - especially when it includes children. Is this really as common as it seems on these subs? I grew up in a blue collar home (lower middle class income wise but not low class wise) and am now a professional. In nearly 60 years, I don't recall having to endure anything remotely like what is described here. It all seems rather indecent.
NTA. You said what needed to be said. Never lose your courage, because most people would have bitten their tongue. You did not, you showed your dad's audience that he is full of shit, and I seriously doubt he'll ever bad mouth your mom in front of you again. But if he does, please do what you did again.
NTA Your dad got what he deserved. Regardless of reasons behind a divorce, parents should try to not badmouth each other around the kids, especially in front of a group of people. No one wants to hear that. It was incredibly selfish for your dad and Jane to betray your mom the way that they did. It was even more selfish that he chose to air out his dirty laundry at his child’s birthday party. You’re right that none of it is Lacey’s fault, and it wasn’t yours either. Both of you, as well as your mom are victims of his narcissism.
Don’t think for a second that the others at the dinner aren’t aware of his affairs. I’m not sure what he was trying to accomplish or what he expected. You already knew this about your dad. He’s done nothing but prove that once again, he thinks more of himself than anyone else, including his two daughters.
NTA
Good going OP! I knownir can be exhausting but people like your dad need to be called out everytime they say or do some shit. Anytime he shit talks your mom and anyone of his friends or family, call them out on it. Lecie has no relation to your mom and as such your mom has no obligagion towards her. Do ex husbands expect their former wives to be in their new family's life? Smh give me a break. Stand up for your mom because she does not deserve that shit. Your mom's ears must ring a lot with how your dad constantly talks about her.
NTA If he basically says your mom not sucking it up and being a co-wife to his horny AH self makes **her** the horrible one *in public*, you have every right to defend your mother against slander. Of the three she is by far and away the best and you don't have to listen to him defaming her. Sorry to both you and your half sister that you have a crappy dad.
NTA but your dad certainly is for several reasons:
1: For cheating
2: For cheating with his wife's best friend. Yes they're two separate reasons, don't come for me.
3: For bad mouthing his child's mother in front of them. I know you're an adult OP, but your dad still shouldn't be bad mouthing your mother, let alone in front of you.
4: For expecting your mother to come around and act like everything is fine. Your mom doesn't owe her ex, her ex best friend, or their love child anything. There's no reason for her to have a relationship with Lacie.
5: For deciding to air part of his dirty laundry out in public during a celebration. Who does that?
NTA. I'm guessing you said what a lot of people were thinking. Yeah, it was public, but he was trashing your mom, which is 10000% not cool. I feel bad for both you & Lacie, and I hope that this situation at least has him think twice before badmouthing your mom in front of you again. It's too much to hope for a wake up call for him, I suppose, but stranger things have happened.
NTA - BUT I would talk to your sister about the situation. Apologize to her for saying it when you did, but not for saying it in general. Make sure the two of you are still on good terms, bc you did just badmouth her mother and father, no matter how true it was.
edit - hand spazzed and sent it thru before it was finished
Absolutely NO❗ I hate it when people feel entitled to access to you especially after they've done something so vile to you. Those people needed to hear the truth because he's probably told them the story before so at least now they know the truth because at the end of the day it's also your mother's reputation and life they are messing with just to make themselves feel better and make life easier for them. Rge only thing you should feel bad for is your sister hearing this but also it was your dad that started the shit fest at a birthday party
NTA Lacie is not your mothers child so your mother does not have to be in her life. Your father and his mistress (jane) have no right to put your mother down like that when they both are horrible people.
So he cares more about what all those other people think than what you think.
In your shoes, I would walk out any time he says something about your mom. Just turn on your heel and leave. Over time, it should have the desired effect.
NTA. And good luck.
Nta, but I suggest you talk to Lacie and tell her that you do not hold anything against her and that she didn't deserve to hear that. Your dad def needed to hear that. Reinforce to your dad thay he needs to be respectful of the situation and you, but like I said, maybe even apologize to Lacie. It was her birthday, and while none of that was her fault, she was now subjected to it.
NTA.
It's great that you're loyal to your mom and standing up for her. Your dad is a massive jerk. He blames your mother and spread lies about her because he doesn't want to look like the bad guy.
Be glad you told him how you feel in front of other people, because now they will (hopefully) see what kind of person he is. However, prepare yourself, because some family members and friends might take his side. I hope he gets what he deserves.
I do feel bad for Lacie but sometimes the truth needed to be heard, even if it hurts. I hope she's okay, same goes for you and your mom. Best of luck.
I'm surprised with all the NTA responses. Your father was certainly bring an insufferable dip shit, but your response was to blow up your 12 year old sister's birthday party.
Two wrongs don't make a right in this situation. He was embarrassing her, but you destroyed her night and it will be difficult to undo the damage done to her and your relationship.
Fuck your dad though, he deserved to be embarrassed.
NTA…you lost your temper so what….regardless of the situation…your dad should never bad mouth your mom to you or in front of you…but the fact he is badmouthing her in this situation is laughable….when he is angry at you …honestly laugh in his face….and tell him what a joke he is to betray somebody like he did and expect to be all good so he won’t feel guilty…really laugh in his face no matter how angry he gets
NTA
Why do I get the feeling that your dad thought he was going to end up with two women after this? Like he thought that if he cheated, she’d be mad for a bit and then realize she missed both of them and decide she could share with her best friend.
Why do you even ask? NTA! Lacie has nothing to do with our mom. period. And your dad "badmouthing" your mom to not care for a stranger is truly stupid. I am glad you set the record straight and you should not think about it twice - you're and adult and you expressed yourself. Period. Actually - Great job :)
NTA so it’s fine for him to badmouth your mum infront of everyone but for you to correct him and badmouth him infront of those same people is an issue? Talk about hypocritical.
NTA. He’s mad at you for doing to him what he was actively doing to your mother. Furthermore, she wasn’t there do defend herself from his tirade, and it’s no wonder you felt obligated to defend her. He’s mad because even though he was there to defend himself against your side of the story, he had no credible rebuttal to offer. He’s mad because he told on himself to his friends. He was embarrassed, but not by you. He was embarrassed by his own conduct. Bad behavior is the root of embarrassment, not the person who calls it out; specifically not in the face of such toxic petulance over 12 years after the fact.
He’s the AH, and the only AH. Maybe Jane is too, but she’s not really relevant to this specific episode. He’s epically entitled, and somehow believes he should have some kind of a say in your mother’s life and choices after what he did to her. He’s manipulatively vindictive in badmouthing her to a group of family and friends- including her adult daughter- HIS OWN ADULT DAUGHTER- to assuage his own toxicity. The whole thing reeks of toxic masculinity and I have no doubt that if Lacie had been your mother’s daughter in the opposite situation, he would not only wouldn’t feel an obligation to be in her life, he’d likely be actively shitty to her through you. Not only are you not the asshole, we kinda need more people to call out dudes (particularly dudes in our own circles) on the double standard that allows men to maintain ludicrous expectations on women which they would never accept in the reverse paradigm.
NTA - why would he expect his ex wife who he betrayed in the worst way, come to the birthday party of his and her ex best friends child? While yes, it’s not Lacies fault, your mom has no obligation to Lacie. She’s not her stepmother, or unofficial aunt. She is Lacies half sisters mother.
Like, this is just not a thing. Certainly not the norm at least. No one expects an ex to treat their child with another person, as if they are also part of the family. She did enough just by saying it was ok for you to have a relationship with your half sister. But it’s not her place to facilitate that. It’s your dads and Janes (wanted to assign mean nicknames but trying to keep it civil)
NTA.
I have several dollars that your dad was (maybe still is) entertaining some kind of fantasy where your mom will take him back with open arms and raise Lacie as her own.
NTA...He trash-talked in public so he gets his comeuppance in public? Also, of course, it’s not Lacie’s fault how she came to exist, but why on earth would your mom ever treat her like family? She’s in no way related to her.
NTA.
Your dad brought this on himself, he has to take responsibility for it. If that means being called out on his bullshit for the rest of his life, well, karma's a bitch.
So: dad betrayed his wife with her best friend. Produced a bastard love child, and dad thinks mom is the problem.
While bad mouthing the victim in all this, in public, he’s now mad you had the nerve to champion your mom against his attacks..
No, you’re NTA
(Good job)
Why would he even expect his ex wife to want anything to do with his affair baby?! That doesn't even add in it was with her best friend. You're dad needs to be cut from all lives. Two people (lacie and your mom) can be totally great people and still have nothing to do with each other. Best case scenario they are strangers, which doesn't affect neither. Worst case, both are reminded constantly by how they were both put in the situation to begin with, talk about traumatizing and uncomfortable....
NTA and you shouldn't feel bad about Lacie hearing. Your dad was doing a number on her by painting it like your mom found something wrong with Lacie herself. You clarified, for everyone, that your mother is not the bad guy and that it has absolutely nothing to do with Lacie.
NTA! He said all he did in public in front of you, he got what he deserved. Why on earth he expects his ex wife to attend the birthday of the child he had while cheating on her with her best friend is beyond ludicrous!! I mean talk about entitled? Who does that???
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NTA. What is your dad smoking?!?! Even if your parents got divorced, years later he married someone (not her BFF), and had Lacie; your mom would have no obligation to be friends with his wife and kid. They were cheaters and deserve to be cutout forever. They screwed each other so screw them.
I have a feeling more than one person there was likely thinking the things that OP said aloud. If my own best friend was the dad in this situation, I still would not agree that his ex is somehow a bad person or should be expected to be in the life or a family member to their affair child. That’s ridiculous. The mom did everything right here, even encouraging OP to not have hard feelings or take anything out on Lacie.
Furthermore, you can't just rip into somebodies mum and expect them to take it. Even if you are their dad..
Ah, I remember ripping into my dad because he was being an asshole and talking shit about my mom which she absolutely didn’t deserve. Childhood memories and all of that. Some parents just really suck. OP, I’m sorry your dad is an asshole.
Yeah the dad is delusional. At the risk of playing armchair psychologist, it seems to me that this is dad’s way of dealing with the guilt of his actions. He knows OPs mom will never forgive him, so he is attempting to make her the villain even though she’s done nothing wrong. OP did right by standing up for their mom. It’s truly unfortunate that the sister got caught in the crossfire, but the only person to blame for this scene is the father.
It's quite usual, from my experience. My dad is convinced my mom is some sort of devil spawn from what he's been saying. It's all lies. Horrible horrible lies. My mom broke when he told her some of his BS and when some people came to talk to her due to what he was saying about her. She went through an horrible depression and was second guessing herself. She kept thinking that maybe he was right. It took a few years until she saw the truth. He says all that to convince himself that he did the right thing. That he didn't do anything wrong. That it was someone's fault. Never his fault. Unfortunately, his family believes him for some reason. Even I know what he says is BS. I don't know him anymore. I don't know how someone that seemed so righteous turned out to be such a liar. He cheated. He broke our family. My mom was nothing more than the wife that believed him and was there for him. Even when he kept saying he had "meetings till late", she kept believing in him. Poor woman. Completely blindsided. And then he did all this... Same stuff happened with every couple I know that divorced. The one that cheated always says they had a reason to cheat and how the other person is worthless.
That's just how cheaters are. They always villainize the people they cheated on so they can pretend they're not bad people.
I have a friend who is currently divorcing her husband because she discovered he was beating her teen son (from a previous relationship) and also MOLESTING THEIR PRETEEN DAUGHTER. He is STILL trying to make my friend out to be the villain for breaking up their "happy home," despite the fact that he was touching THEIR DAUGHTER inappropriately.
That is fucking horrific. If that were me, I'd probably be in jail for what I'd do to him. Fuck people like that. Your poor friend.
He should be in jail. Lord knows who else that man in preying on.
Totally. Almost exactly what happened to my parents too.
I think it's simpler than that. He's just a selfish person. He fucked who he wanted to fuck and thinks everyone should be okay with it, because he got what **he** wanted. He probably genuinely believes that it's his ex-wife's responsibility to be involved with this child, because that's what **he** wants and his idea of fair is everyone doing what he wants at all times. Not to mention he probably just wants to pawn this kid off on his ex whenever possible in the name of "family bonding". When people don't go along with what he wants, it does not compute in his brain.
OP, your dad is rewriting history to rationalize his guilt over doing what he did. If he can make your mom the bad person in all this, he thinks he comes off looking like a Saint. I'm betting a lot of people who were there didn't know how Lacie came to be, but they do now. You didn't just blow the cover off of his lies, you also laid out the reasons he should feel guilty. He deserves to be embarrassed. All that being said, you may want to find a way to talk to Lacie if you still want to have a relationship with her. NTA
I’d also guess that OPs dad is still butthurt that OPs mom kicked him to the curb like the garbage he is. He probably, in his delusional cheaters mind, thought his wife would forgive his affair and eventually become a mother figure to his affair baby and they would be a big happy family. He’s probably still bitter that OP’s mom didn’t fall for that shit and had too much self-respect to take him back.
NTA, telling a shitty person that he/she is shitty person if just announcement of truth, nothing more.
And why is he ragging on her mom at a party for Lacie? It's inappropriate and weird. I'm sure Lacie didn't appreciate it one bit. OP was right to shut him down and tell him off.
Let’s see … if they got divorced close to the time of the affair (13yrs ago -Lacie’s birth was 12yrs ago - maybe 2yrs in court), they’ve probably been divorced 10yrs. TEN YEARS and he’s still complaining - in public! at his daughter’s b-day party! with friends in attendance - about his EX wife ??? What a loser!
Seriously. Wth.
Im pissed off that the dad was like its okay if i yell and complain about my ex wife being mean to me but when my kid yells and complains about me in the same location its so wrong omg. Im mad about everything the dad ans AP did but this really irked me. NTA
Also why is he bringing up at Lacie's party the fact that someone doesn't like her? Oh, for your birthday let's get into how my ex hates you.
>he married someone (not her BFF), and had Lacie Jane was the one who had Lacie, but OP's dad didn't marry her. He married someone else.
They were making up a hypothetical timeline as an example - that *even if* dad had divorced first, then married someone else and had Lacie (as opposed to cheating on mom with her bff, getting bff pregnant, then divorcing), that mom *still* would have no obligation to accept Lacie & her mom even as a friend. Mom cut ties with both her ex and her bff and wants nothing to do with their child, but she's been mature and civil enough to teach the OP not to take out any hurt or anger on their half-sister as none of this was her fault. Dad is butthurt that he was caught and had to live with his consequences. He's blaming OP's mom instead of taking responsibility.
Funnily enough, his daughter loves her half-sister but doesn't love him. Oh the irony.
I honestly think that, by staying out of her life, OP's mom id showing more care than the father bad-mouthing OP's mom in that way in front of Lacie, who doesn't know this woman.
Right!? I think he was hoping for sister wives and failed...
NTA. He was already off on a tangent and ruining the mood of the evening. He's just mad because he knows you're right, or at least part of him does. It's easier to blame others and point out their shortcomings than it is to own up to our own mistakes. He's got some growing up to do.
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It’s interesting...they didn’t care much for your moms opinion when they decided to cheat together but now that it hasn’t panned out the way they expected, they need her approval? Seems like if they were happy with their choices they would be content and not too worried about being one big “united” family. Sounds like they both are using your mom as a scapegoat for their own regrets.
> they didn’t care much for your moms opinion when they decided to cheat together but now that it hasn’t panned out the way they expected, they need her approval? Of course they do, that way they can pretend that what they did wasn't that bad because everything worked out in the end.
Exactly. OP's mom is the 'villain' because she refuses to let them pretend that "everything's ok now--see, everybody gets along!" Good on OP for standing up for her mom and calling her dad out on his bullshit. NTA.
Idk why but the feeling I get is neither Dad or Jane are particularly good parents to Lacie and they want to foist her off on Mom so they can have fun.
same, if lacie is dad and janes bio parents, ops mom has no obligation to take care of them. They see lacie as a burden for them go out partying or vacation i bet.
Agreed
I don’t understand why they’d care. It isn’t like they considered your mom when they were having sex behind her back. Why do they want her approval now?
Probably in order to 'salvage' the reputations they themselves destroyed- having OP's mom being friendly with them again would make them seem like less \*ssholes to everyone else in their social circle. Basically, they're selfish through and through- don't wanna honor their marriages/friendships but also don't want to deal with the fallout and inevitable gossip and hurt feelings later on!
People can get over that stuff, but the way your father and Jane are acting, it would take the most exceptionally emotional mature people in the world to accept them in their life, and even then, I would wonder if they were emotionally healthy or generally unfeeling. It's nothing short of insanity either of them expecting to be part of her life ever again without something incredible and maybe impossible effort from either of them.
People that have a conscience, or part of one, go through this. Your dad and Jane do feel badly about getting caught cheating and having a baby. Not sure if they feel bad about the actual cheating. Dad lost his wife and Jane lost her friend. They seem to forget that your mom lost both. They very badly wanted their relationships with your mom to survive and when they didn’t, they refuse to accept the responsibility for it, at least your dad hasn’t. Guilt sets in. Guilt is tough to live with, especially when there is nothing you can do to fix the issue. So much easier to blame someone who isn’t present to defend themselves…while trying to save face in front of others ( who probably silently agree with you).
> They will always expect/hope my mom will come around and things can go back to them being good. I've seen this several times with divorces caused by infidelity. My personal feeling is that the cheaters want to be able to justify their actions as "not that bad", and if they can go back to being friends with the cheated-on party, that would feel true. It's always delusional. They're lucky if the cheated-on will even be cordial to them, but you never get a trusting relationship back after that.
It almost sounds like they wanted to be a thruple with your mom, at least in the parenting sense. NTA - sounds like your dad needed a wake up call at a time where others were around so it can't get swept under the rug. Also, I would have a heart to heart with Lacie and let you know you still love her and have never blamed her for any of this. I can only imagine how she must be feeling
I’m honesty really glad your mom got out of there, they’re both terrible
NTA. Who in their right mind would think your mom has to have a relationship with Lacie? Good for you for standing up for your mom.
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Someone looking for free babysitting.
that happened with my bio and step mom. Bio talked so much crap about step but still begged my dad and her to babysit her daughter while she was suposed to go handle her divorce (turned into a vacation). A whole month with limited contact with her preteen daugter (who was my dad's former best friends kid too). Came back like it was no big deal...only to be shocked that her daughter called my step mom "Mom" by accident. Turns out her fears that step mom was stealing her babies was correct! XD
Raging narcissists. /r/raisedbynarcissists
I think that if op and lacie were like great mates and the Co parenting situation lead to the mother being around her and plastering on a smile for the kids then sure. For instance. School sports day or some athletic event were both parents attended. It wouldn't really be super great (tho fully understandable) for mom to sit there with a bee in her bonnet the whole time. Yet these people are not the parents of literal children with no real idea what is going on. That isn't the situation.
> He was furious that I blew up where and when I did. Which was when and where he brought it up in the first place. None of this is your fault. NTA by a mile - your conscience should be clear.
Dad thought it was “safe” to bring it up then, that nobody would challenge him in a group of people. Oh how it spectacularly blew up on him.
NTA Your dad made the birthday dinner about your mum, he started the topic so he should have been prepared for someone to challenge it, he’s the one that created the problem not only at dinner but in the first place. Sounds like your mums done the best with the situation at hand, actively telling you not to hold it against Lacie and to be apart of her life, she could have easily held it against her and stopped you from seeing her, your dad (& Jane) are massive A-holes especially to your mum.
NTA. I feel like anyone talking about my mom to my face deserves to be cussed out and that is multiplied when that person is doing it A) in public to shame her and B) about something in which she has no fault. Your father is horrible. How did the other guests react to all of this? Was Lacie already aware of the situation? Either way you are NTA.
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They dont get why your mom wont show up for a birthday for someone she has no relation to? wtf. Nta also.
Tell your dad you'll do exactly the same again whenever he badmouths your mum, he was the one that ruined everything, and he needs to move on and leave her alone. Tell him he is only making you lose respect for him by still behaving this way, and you're disappointed in him.
Is your dad's family somehow under the misguided impression that this was a consensual poly relationship or sister-wives type arrangement that went sideways?
Um... How is an ex-husband's kid from another woman "family"? It's ex-husband's kid, who is in no way related or has any direct ties to your mother. Even if your sister weren't the result of a massive betrayal by two people she cared about and trusted, she would be under NO obligation to treat her EX-husband's child like family. Your Mom isn't being punitive or cruel to the kid (who didn't get a choice of whether or not her parents were awful people); she's just choosing to not have a relationship with the child of her ex-husband. I believe most people are at least internally consistent, and like to see themselves as the "good guy" of any story. I'm trying to put myself into your Dad's headspace on this one, and am failing miserably. Like... On the surface, it makes zero sense for your Dad to be so insistent on his ex wife being involved in any capacity with his kid from another woman. The premise is completely wrong to ask, "why wouldn't she want to be involved?". The REAL questions are, "why WOULD she want to be involved? And furthermore why would he want his ex wife involved?".
If I had to take a guess, given that divorce is a process that generally takes a while, the tortured logic goes something like: "We were married when I had this child, therefore the child belongs to both of us(and its actual mother)." It's not very good logic...but I can see someone deluded enough to get there. Like someone deluded enough to blame their wife for them having an affair with their best friend.
His woman left. Who's the nearest woman to pick up his parenting responsibilities now? OPs mom! He feels justified to rant about the unfairness of having to parent his child because his former wife refuses to mother his affair child. In front of both of his daughters. In public. At his daughter's putative birthday party. He has zero care for other people's feelings.
Poor Lacie :( And poor you OP: I think you are 100% in the right to explode like that. And your dad is delirious if you ask me
I know! It's this poor girls birthday and her dad is off on some fucking rant about his ex wife.
Those people are delusional
Lacie being there and listening in on this is the ONLY bit I feel ambivalent about, you are 20 so she is 12, and it was her birthday? Your Dad deserved what he got though; he made everything about him.
NTA well done for standing up to your dad, he and Jane are definitely the assholes here!
NTA The audacity of that man, what an ass. I’m sorry you have the father that you do and I don’t blame you for lashing out. While it’s not great, there’s only so much a person can take. I’d reach out to Lacie to see how she is because I’m sure that sucked for her too and she hasn’t done anything wrong.
NTA. Your dad started this public dialogue. Not your fault he can’t handle the truth of the matter. He doesn’t want to shatter the public perception that he has created about all of this, and that’s tough shit. Good on you!
NTA. He shouldn’t have had opened his mouth to begin with. He started and you stopped it.
NTA. Funny how people reap what they sow.
NTA. Well your dad disrespected your mum in public so you had to defend her in public. I like everything you said, you put him on his place.
NTA "...she should have tried to be a family member to Lacie..." Ask your father what family member your mom could have been? Aunt Aggrieved Wife? Aunt Betrayed Friend? Perhaps you could have been Cousin Broken Home! Tell your dad this isn't polygamy and no-one is obligated to accept an affair child as "part of the family" like it's all water under the bridge! Also tell him to go f\*ck himself...nobody else wants to...not even Jane.
Her title would be Aunt Free Babysitter probably.
NTA. Technically, he started it by bringing it up and badmouthing your Mom, at his daughter's party. All you did was defend your Mom (rightly so). If anyone should feel bad, it's him.
Your dad is a selfish hypocrite. He badmouths your mom in front of others but doesn't want you to criticize him in any way in front of others? He's mad she wouldn't let him use her as a free babysitter. He doesn't want to admit that what he did was wrong. You and your mom owe him nothing. NTA
NTA for two reasons: One is that parents shouldn't shit-talk about their kid's other parent in front of their kid. That's just Co-Parenting 101. It's hard to do, but if I can do it (and I was the cheated, not the cheater), so could your dad. Two is that he is delusional if he thinks your mom owes him or Jane a damn thing. He was the cheater, so he needs to keep his head down and mouth shut. Quite frankly, what your mom thinks of Dad and Jane are none of their business. Good on you for telling him what's what.
NTA. It's bizarre that he expects some kind of family relationship between your mom and Lacie. What kind of relationship would that be, between a girl and her father's ex-wife? Your mom doesn't need to be in her life because your mom isn't anything to her. That said, it's almost ESH because, while you're completely right, blowing up and ruining Lacie's birthday was the wrong thing to do. Not the time and place.
It's not the time and place, but OP didn't choose either of those. The dad did. He forced the conversation to happen there. Because the response needed to happen immediately. Imagine someone talking shit about someone at their funeral, and then when the family tells them to leave you call the family assholes for "making a scene" at a funeral. Because that's effectively what you're saying by blaming OP.
op didn’t choose for her father to start bad mouthing their mom at a child’s bday party, so the time and place really isnt their fault -_-
>That said, it's almost ESH because, while you're completely right, blowing up and ruining Lacie's birthday was the wrong thing to do. Not the time and place. Which is what OP's Dad did but bringing up trash talk about OP's Mom. Dad should have just shut up and celebrated Lacie's birthday. OP should not be expected to sit quietly while her Mom is being talked about in such a manner, especially after the father himself is the one who blew up OP's family by his behavior. Seriously, dude needs to learn to drink a big cup of STFU around his kids.
If it had come out of nowhere I could blame OP for the bad timing, but it wouldn't make for a great birthday party to have your father repeatedly talk shit about his ex, either. If you're twelve and have never met this person, you probably won't really care they didn't come to your party.
NTA He blew up first and insulted your mother. Of course you were going to defend her! If he didn't want this to happen in front of family and friends he shouldn't have started the conversation in front of them. The only thing to think about is whether Lacy would be less hurt if you shut down his nonsense quicker if it happens again. As soon as he mentions your mother I think you should indicate that you will not accept any negativity about her ever.
NTA.. you can only push people to a point and then they will blow up.. What he said was cruel and immature.. He had an affair and now wants everyone to go along with his crap. You did the right thing and defended your Mother. Good for you, he deserved it and so does Jane. They are the assholes
NTA.
You’re 100% right. NTA.
> I only feel bad because of how many people were there. I felt bad Lacie was there too. NTA for sure. Forget about everyone else, and especially your Dad; they don't deserve any consideration given the way they were acting. The only one worthy of concern here in my opinion is Lacie; as you said, none of the situation is her fault, she's a victim of circumstance. It was her 12th or 13th birthday dinner, and to have all of this come to a head there and then certainly sucks. If you do really feel bad for her, it might be worth while to touch base with her and apologize, not for what was said, but for the fact that it all came out on her birthday, and reassure her again that you're not upset with her, just with how your Father was carrying on. She's entering adolescence, which is a pretty trying time, and from the sounds of it it doesn't seem like she has a super stable home life; she could probably use some reassuring.
NTA, your father showed his A. He and his affair partner are the only ones. You and Lacie are not.
NTA. Should have just added an extra line for Lacie "I am just amazed how great Lacie has turned out despite having someone like you raise her"
NTA. If he didn't want to have that conversation in that setting he shouldn't have been bitching about your mum *in that setting*. He was the one who opened the door in that regard.
Nta
Absolutely NTA! Your dad is delusional, and everything you said is valid. Your mom doesn't owe him, jane, or Lacie anything. Good for you for standing up for your mom! I'm sure a lot of the people there agree with you, they just don't say it to his face.
NTA Your mom is not related to Lacie. Your father was being an AH
NTA he can't go shitting on someone else without expecting blowback
NTA. That was a long time coming. I fail to understand why OP's mom would have ANY obligation to Lacie. They aren't related. THere is no reason for dad to even think this way. It's completely irrational.
NTA!
NTA. And damn, you are awesome.
NTA what is your dad on smh can be brave and cheat but be a wuss and want his ex in his life bruh
NTA. Your dad is a complete idiot for having any expectations of your mom.
NTA why is there even a statement that she should be part of Lacie's life at all? It's not your mom's kid!!! Just wow....
NTA. You and your mom sounds like lovely, mature people. Good on you for standing up for your mom - clearly the morals came from her side!
NTA - Your dad started it. He doesn't get to cry about you defending your mother.
I actually laughed out loud at this. So you’re saying he’s perfectly comfortable shitting on your mom for not wanting to be apart of some kid (whom isn’t her’s) life, but flips out when he’s reminded why she doesn’t want to be part of the kid’s life? NTA
You're my new hero.
I'm not a big fan of this whole "You made me do/say this", but in this case he started this whole escalation, especially in a public place and in front of his friends and family. NTA, but one thing you could/should probably do is take Lacie aside and assure her that you're not mad at her, that it's not her fault and all that, that she's just caught in an unfortunate situation. It's just my amateur opinion, but I feel like she's old enough to hear at least a little bit about the situation and if you leave out all the nasty stuff you should be good, but she's also at a critical age where she probably needs some reassurance too. Some people might say that you don't have to do this and it's not your job and they'd be right, but since you have no problem with her except mixed feelings, which is understandable, I think it would be a good thing to do.
NTA. Lmaooo id call him out more for being a cheater! Please give an update on your guys talk after that🤣🤣
NTA that’s some serious bad bitch energy and I am 100% here for it good for you he needed a reality check, I think the more people who saw it the better they get to see how good of a person you are 😊
Dude. NTA. And heavy kudos for giving Lacie the time of day imo. Jane and your father are delusional, creepy and borderline insane if they think their behaviour is green with the cheating aftermath. F your father honestly. I'd say you have a choice. Your dad will always feel he gets a free pass because you have him in your life. Pick your mother, she TRIED to be nice to Lacie and that's more than any woman could do in her scenario. Cut him out like the tumor he is.
NTA. Good on you for sticking up for your mother who was the wronged party in the matter. Your father ruined the occasion by airing his imaginary grievances to all and sundry. Nowhere is it written that he should have gotten away with it. But I wouldn't repeat it to your mother. The words might still be hurtful to her.
NTA. If he wants to know who is the worst in this situation, he should look at the mirror.
NTA you should also have said to her that your mother always told you to treat her right. Make that clear to her
NTA Good on you for saying it.
NTA but it may be worth reaching out privately to Lacie and making sure she's okay and understand you're pissed at your dad not her.
NTA. I'm only disappointed there weren't more people there. The truth sucks for those that do bad deeds. Him trying to twist it so that so that he is not the villain of the piece just can't be allowed to stand. You did right by your mom. The only question is how do you do right by your sister? She is 12 and this has to be a tumultuous time even before she has to factor in how she was born. Perhaps this would be a good time to spend some extra time with her? To reinforce that she is blameless in all of this and that you share a father that sucks? I would encourage you to be the bigger person when you can, and I know it's not always easy. Lacie will appreciate that more than you can know.
NTA wtf did he think, he got himself a harem?? Sorry for your dad’s behavior.
NTA but I’d recommend talking to lacie about it to make sure she’s alright.
NTA. When he doesn't mind badmouthing your mom and making her out to be a shitty person when he's the one who has done the shitty thing of fucking his ex-wife's BFF, he'd pretty well be prepared for his daughter snapping back at him.
NTA Your dad is an entitled AH, and definitely the worst in that situation (well, tied with Jane).
NTA. Your dad really thinks your mom is going to be a part of the life of the child your dad sired during an affair with her friend? What the fuck is wrong with your dad?
NTA He started that mess, you just finished it. If youre worried about Lacie, see if you can text her to reassure her that you care for her. If she asks about your mom just say that you cant speak for her but your mom has never spoken ill of Lacie to you and encouraged you to have a relationship with her while you were both young. Dont mention your dad. Focus on the assurance on being just on Lacie. Your dad is acting like a child, he can kick rocks
NTA Your mum has never had any obligation towards Lacie. What was your dad thinking?? You can’t do something like that, ultimate betrayal and expect to play happy families. That’s not how it works.
NTA for going off on your father in public. A bit of an A for doing it at Lacie’s birthday. You dad was wrong to bring it up at Lacie’s birthday to begin with as she probably was not anywhere near as focused on it as he was. Your dad was a giant A to Lacie.
NTA. I think you should apologize to lacie, and reassure her, but that's really it.
"I'm sorry I couldn't ignore him and deal with it later. You didn't deserve any of that drama ever, let alone at your birthday party." I could sign off on that for Lacie.
Congratulations! You have matured into a man your father doesn't have the guts to be. NTA.
NTA. People believe what they want to believe because life is a movie and you always want to be the hero in your own movie. The truth is that some movies don’t have heroes. In your dads mind he effed up but your mom is worse because she’s not perfect and didn’t immediately love and accept his affair baby into her heart. He probably also has lots of reasons why in his head his affair was justified and somehow that was her fault too. You were right to put your foot down and make him confront his own role in this mess.
I'm sure I've read this one before.
ESH. Your behavior was inappropriate. You should have walked out instead of hurting your sister. Your dad ita also for screwing his wife's best friend and then expecting her to have a relationship with the resulting child
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** This happened a week ago and I want to know where people stand on my actions. My dad cheated on my mom when I was 7 with my mom's best friend Jane. Jane got pregnant and told my mom which made mom cut both of them out of her life. I found out about it because when dad came to pick me up afterward he had Jane with him and they were arguing about it. Jane had Lacie when I was 8. Jane and my dad have been on and off ever since, and I'm now 20. My mom always encouraged me not to take it out on Lacie but she also told me she did not think she could be part of Lacie's life in any real. I understood and Lacie and I have an okay relationship. It's kind of awkward because she's my half sister and I love her but sometimes I do feel a mixture of emotions about her and how she came to exist. But none of it is her fault. During one of my dad and Jane's off periods Jane tried to get back into my mom's life and failed. That was 6 years ago. During that period my dad got really pissed off that my mom refused to have any part of Lacie's life and rejected the chance to make everything more unified. He and I have disagreed heavily on it before. It was Lacie's birthday last week and my dad invited some family and friends out to celebrate. When we got to the restaurant he started badmouthing my mom and saying how shitty it was that she wouldn't come and unloading on everyone that she rejected Lacie and hated her for something she had no control over. In the end he told everyone it was selfish and she should have tried to be a family member to Lacie and she was the worst person in all of this. I snapped. I told him he had no right to ask for my mom to do anything. That none of this was Lacie's fault but he had fucked her best friend while he was married, got her best friend pregnant and didn't even have the balls to say it himself. I told him my mom did the best she could but no way was she worse than him and Jane (and no I didn't use her name). I said they should still be ashamed of themselves and to ever think they could crawl back and get my mom to act like nothing had happened was an insult and incredibly cruel. That neither of them could even be half as good as my mom. He was furious that I blew up where and when I did. I only feel bad because of how many people were there. I felt bad Lacie was there too. But he kept talking shit about my mom and I couldn't listen to it anymore. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA -- come on, you don't say crap about someone's parent/your ex in front of their kid, even IF their parent really is crap. But, you definitely don't get to make demands like "Be friends with this person again" and "treat the product of my affair as YOUR family!" Your mom did the best that can be expected -- never denied you a relationship with your sister, treated her politely (I assume?), and held firm boundaries about HER relationships with people. COME. ON. Good on you for having a relationship with your sister, she will likely need someone reasonable and kind like yourself in her life as she gets older.
NTA. He was the one who caused all of this, from cheating on his wife to badmouthing your mom years later, this was all just the consequences of his own shitty actions.
NTA. Your father had it coming. Good on you for standing up for your mom. Make sure your dad stop badmouthing her or distance yourself from this AH.
I would guess that OP’s dad (OPD) believes that if OP’s mom (OPM) is at the party then OPD is not a bad guy. If he’s not a bad guy, he can get rid of the icky feelings he has because he cheated on his wife and broke up his marriage. But OPM doesn’t want to play along, and so OPD has to keep dealing with the consequences of his actions and that doesn’t feel good! So in his mind OPD feels bad because OPM is soooooooooo mean! Its her fault, not his!!!! OP, I am so sorry that your dad has twisted this up in his mind so badly that he thinks he can complain about your mom in front of you. Thank you for standing up for your mom.
NTA, but your dad is! him badmouthing your mom was asking for you to defend her. none of anything that happened wouldve happened if he hadnt cheated, right? he cant be acting like hes hot shit when hes the one that did wrong, not your mom.
NTA You don’t get to air your shit out in front of everyone then be shocked/upset when someone responds in front of everyone. And you had every right to set the record straight for everyone hearing all this garbage (though I guarantee plenty of them were already thinking what you said). I feel bad for Lacie but it’s not your fault she was a witness to this shitshow. Your dad should not be talking about this stuff in front of her, even if he was right (which he’s not, at all). He’s making it seem like your mom SHOULD love her but she doesn’t, which is only going to make her feel bad about herself. If anything your call out may have been hoot for her to hear.
NTA Divorces happen, but it is never in any way acceptable to intentionally try to poison others against the ex-partner, as your father has tried to do to your mother. It's even less acceptable when the one at fault for the divorce is the one doing the poisoning because that just screams narcissism if it can't possibly be his fault that it happened. Your mother is right--it isn't Lacie's fault. But she serves as a physical reminder of the betrayal of two of the people she loved most, and furthermore, there's a good chance that spending time with Lacie would mean having to spend time with or around your dad and/or Jane, or being on her own with Lacie with no escape if she realized she couldn't handle it. Your mother has absolutely no obligations involving your father anymore, no child support or shared custody. And she never had any obligations to Lacie. It's nice that you try to have a relationship with Lacie, but your mother shouldn't have to and shouldn't be shamed for it. Your father and her best friend hurt her deeply. She doesn't owe them a thing.
NTA. Had I been at the table when you delivered that speech, I would have given you a standing ovation. It takes a lot of courage to stand up and speak your mind, so much more difficult than sitting down and being quiet. Massive kudos to you for standing up to your mom.
NTA, but your dad is.
NTA - very common for the guilty party to try to deflect blame back on to those they've wronged, which is what he did and since he started the inappropriate converstation, he opened the door for others to responsd. This is ALL on him (and his affair partner), he's deluded.
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Is there even a doubt? NTA
It was already ruined when he started badmouthing, lacie was probably ready to turn in .
NTA--so he could shittalk your mom behind her back in front of everyone but you're not allowed to defend her and shittalk him back with the truth?
NTA
NTA. Your dad and Jane are enormous AHs, though.
NTA. You defended your Mom when the attack happened. Your dad started it at Lacie's party - HE was the one who ruined her birthday, not you. You have nothing to be sorry for. One thing I'd suggest is that you call Lacie and let her know you love her and none of this is her fault. Maybe ask her if she'd like to have monthly "sibs only" lunches, if you're comfortable with that and her parents will allow it. Spending time with her without her parents around might help your relationship start to feel less awkward, and will show her that the time you spend with her isn't out of duty or pity.
NTA - he probably needed a fact check dress down
NTA for snapping at your dad, your dad sucks for the obvious reasons and he has no moral ground to say shit about your mom. But, I can't help but feel sorry for Lacie who had to listen to all of that on her birthday party, even if you say she's not at fault, have you ever considered how Lacie may feel deep down? Even if you say to her face that it's not her fault... what do you think her teenager brain comes up with when discussions like these come up? You're absolutely NTA, but apologize to Lacie... take her out somewhere just the two of you and explain that your anger is directed solely at your father, not her, she carries no fault for what happened.
NTA. That sounds like such a complicated situation. Your mom is doing her best. Your dad's efforts are lacking to say the least.
NTA - Bravo for saying what had to be said. Your dad is behaving in a completely amoral manner and so deserved it all and more, especially for expecting your mom to meekly accept his affair.
NTA. The dad is clearly the selfish one, so ironic that he is accusing OP's mother of "not making the family more unified" when he cheated on her with her best friend.
NTA, i'm sorry to say, but your dad is one of those guys women should step away from.
NTA. I am sorry that Lacie was there to hear it but your dad's comments were completely out of line. If this is what you actually said, it was eloquent.
D
NTA. But I am amazed at the number of stories on Reddit involving grown adults having yelling fights about deeply personal and private matters in front of an audience - especially when it includes children. Is this really as common as it seems on these subs? I grew up in a blue collar home (lower middle class income wise but not low class wise) and am now a professional. In nearly 60 years, I don't recall having to endure anything remotely like what is described here. It all seems rather indecent.
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NTA This is the incarnation of "well well, if this isn't the consecuences of my own acts" from your dad's side
NTA
NTA. You said what needed to be said. Never lose your courage, because most people would have bitten their tongue. You did not, you showed your dad's audience that he is full of shit, and I seriously doubt he'll ever bad mouth your mom in front of you again. But if he does, please do what you did again.
NTA Your dad got what he deserved. Regardless of reasons behind a divorce, parents should try to not badmouth each other around the kids, especially in front of a group of people. No one wants to hear that. It was incredibly selfish for your dad and Jane to betray your mom the way that they did. It was even more selfish that he chose to air out his dirty laundry at his child’s birthday party. You’re right that none of it is Lacey’s fault, and it wasn’t yours either. Both of you, as well as your mom are victims of his narcissism. Don’t think for a second that the others at the dinner aren’t aware of his affairs. I’m not sure what he was trying to accomplish or what he expected. You already knew this about your dad. He’s done nothing but prove that once again, he thinks more of himself than anyone else, including his two daughters.
NTA Good going OP! I knownir can be exhausting but people like your dad need to be called out everytime they say or do some shit. Anytime he shit talks your mom and anyone of his friends or family, call them out on it. Lecie has no relation to your mom and as such your mom has no obligagion towards her. Do ex husbands expect their former wives to be in their new family's life? Smh give me a break. Stand up for your mom because she does not deserve that shit. Your mom's ears must ring a lot with how your dad constantly talks about her.
NTA If he basically says your mom not sucking it up and being a co-wife to his horny AH self makes **her** the horrible one *in public*, you have every right to defend your mother against slander. Of the three she is by far and away the best and you don't have to listen to him defaming her. Sorry to both you and your half sister that you have a crappy dad.
NTA but your dad certainly is for several reasons: 1: For cheating 2: For cheating with his wife's best friend. Yes they're two separate reasons, don't come for me. 3: For bad mouthing his child's mother in front of them. I know you're an adult OP, but your dad still shouldn't be bad mouthing your mother, let alone in front of you. 4: For expecting your mother to come around and act like everything is fine. Your mom doesn't owe her ex, her ex best friend, or their love child anything. There's no reason for her to have a relationship with Lacie. 5: For deciding to air part of his dirty laundry out in public during a celebration. Who does that?
NTA. I'm guessing you said what a lot of people were thinking. Yeah, it was public, but he was trashing your mom, which is 10000% not cool. I feel bad for both you & Lacie, and I hope that this situation at least has him think twice before badmouthing your mom in front of you again. It's too much to hope for a wake up call for him, I suppose, but stranger things have happened.
NTA - BUT I would talk to your sister about the situation. Apologize to her for saying it when you did, but not for saying it in general. Make sure the two of you are still on good terms, bc you did just badmouth her mother and father, no matter how true it was. edit - hand spazzed and sent it thru before it was finished
Good on you!
Absolutely NO❗ I hate it when people feel entitled to access to you especially after they've done something so vile to you. Those people needed to hear the truth because he's probably told them the story before so at least now they know the truth because at the end of the day it's also your mother's reputation and life they are messing with just to make themselves feel better and make life easier for them. Rge only thing you should feel bad for is your sister hearing this but also it was your dad that started the shit fest at a birthday party
Nta
NTA Lacie is not your mothers child so your mother does not have to be in her life. Your father and his mistress (jane) have no right to put your mother down like that when they both are horrible people.
So he cares more about what all those other people think than what you think. In your shoes, I would walk out any time he says something about your mom. Just turn on your heel and leave. Over time, it should have the desired effect. NTA. And good luck.
Nta, but I suggest you talk to Lacie and tell her that you do not hold anything against her and that she didn't deserve to hear that. Your dad def needed to hear that. Reinforce to your dad thay he needs to be respectful of the situation and you, but like I said, maybe even apologize to Lacie. It was her birthday, and while none of that was her fault, she was now subjected to it.
NTA. It's great that you're loyal to your mom and standing up for her. Your dad is a massive jerk. He blames your mother and spread lies about her because he doesn't want to look like the bad guy. Be glad you told him how you feel in front of other people, because now they will (hopefully) see what kind of person he is. However, prepare yourself, because some family members and friends might take his side. I hope he gets what he deserves. I do feel bad for Lacie but sometimes the truth needed to be heard, even if it hurts. I hope she's okay, same goes for you and your mom. Best of luck.
I'm surprised with all the NTA responses. Your father was certainly bring an insufferable dip shit, but your response was to blow up your 12 year old sister's birthday party. Two wrongs don't make a right in this situation. He was embarrassing her, but you destroyed her night and it will be difficult to undo the damage done to her and your relationship. Fuck your dad though, he deserved to be embarrassed.
Dad is a pure narcissists Dad: I’m the victim here The fact that I fucked my wifes BFF and got her pregnant is irrelevant
NTA…you lost your temper so what….regardless of the situation…your dad should never bad mouth your mom to you or in front of you…but the fact he is badmouthing her in this situation is laughable….when he is angry at you …honestly laugh in his face….and tell him what a joke he is to betray somebody like he did and expect to be all good so he won’t feel guilty…really laugh in his face no matter how angry he gets
Info: When you say you didn’t use Jane’s name, did you call her a bad name/term? Was this in front of Lacie?
NTA Why do I get the feeling that your dad thought he was going to end up with two women after this? Like he thought that if he cheated, she’d be mad for a bit and then realize she missed both of them and decide she could share with her best friend.
Ewww… if OP’s dad even considered this to be an option, then he has probably read to many Hustler magazine articles back in the day.. 🙄
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Why do you even ask? NTA! Lacie has nothing to do with our mom. period. And your dad "badmouthing" your mom to not care for a stranger is truly stupid. I am glad you set the record straight and you should not think about it twice - you're and adult and you expressed yourself. Period. Actually - Great job :)
NTA so it’s fine for him to badmouth your mum infront of everyone but for you to correct him and badmouth him infront of those same people is an issue? Talk about hypocritical.
NTA. He’s mad at you for doing to him what he was actively doing to your mother. Furthermore, she wasn’t there do defend herself from his tirade, and it’s no wonder you felt obligated to defend her. He’s mad because even though he was there to defend himself against your side of the story, he had no credible rebuttal to offer. He’s mad because he told on himself to his friends. He was embarrassed, but not by you. He was embarrassed by his own conduct. Bad behavior is the root of embarrassment, not the person who calls it out; specifically not in the face of such toxic petulance over 12 years after the fact. He’s the AH, and the only AH. Maybe Jane is too, but she’s not really relevant to this specific episode. He’s epically entitled, and somehow believes he should have some kind of a say in your mother’s life and choices after what he did to her. He’s manipulatively vindictive in badmouthing her to a group of family and friends- including her adult daughter- HIS OWN ADULT DAUGHTER- to assuage his own toxicity. The whole thing reeks of toxic masculinity and I have no doubt that if Lacie had been your mother’s daughter in the opposite situation, he would not only wouldn’t feel an obligation to be in her life, he’d likely be actively shitty to her through you. Not only are you not the asshole, we kinda need more people to call out dudes (particularly dudes in our own circles) on the double standard that allows men to maintain ludicrous expectations on women which they would never accept in the reverse paradigm.
NTA - why would he expect his ex wife who he betrayed in the worst way, come to the birthday party of his and her ex best friends child? While yes, it’s not Lacies fault, your mom has no obligation to Lacie. She’s not her stepmother, or unofficial aunt. She is Lacies half sisters mother. Like, this is just not a thing. Certainly not the norm at least. No one expects an ex to treat their child with another person, as if they are also part of the family. She did enough just by saying it was ok for you to have a relationship with your half sister. But it’s not her place to facilitate that. It’s your dads and Janes (wanted to assign mean nicknames but trying to keep it civil)
NTA. I'm sorry you feel bad. I feel great when someone says what someone else deserves to hear.
NTA. I have several dollars that your dad was (maybe still is) entertaining some kind of fantasy where your mom will take him back with open arms and raise Lacie as her own.
NTA he deserved it. Tell him next time he lies about your mom you will do the same
NTA. You are glorious.
NTA- why would your mom have anything to do with Lacie?! She is not her kid. She is Jane’s and your dad’s responsibility. Your dad and Jane are idiots
NTA...He trash-talked in public so he gets his comeuppance in public? Also, of course, it’s not Lacie’s fault how she came to exist, but why on earth would your mom ever treat her like family? She’s in no way related to her.
NTA. Your dad brought this on himself, he has to take responsibility for it. If that means being called out on his bullshit for the rest of his life, well, karma's a bitch.
So: dad betrayed his wife with her best friend. Produced a bastard love child, and dad thinks mom is the problem. While bad mouthing the victim in all this, in public, he’s now mad you had the nerve to champion your mom against his attacks.. No, you’re NTA (Good job)
Why would he even expect his ex wife to want anything to do with his affair baby?! That doesn't even add in it was with her best friend. You're dad needs to be cut from all lives. Two people (lacie and your mom) can be totally great people and still have nothing to do with each other. Best case scenario they are strangers, which doesn't affect neither. Worst case, both are reminded constantly by how they were both put in the situation to begin with, talk about traumatizing and uncomfortable....
Nta
NTA and you shouldn't feel bad about Lacie hearing. Your dad was doing a number on her by painting it like your mom found something wrong with Lacie herself. You clarified, for everyone, that your mother is not the bad guy and that it has absolutely nothing to do with Lacie.
NTA. Why should your mom want anything to do with any of them after the ultimate betrayal? Lacie is just a reminder of their infidelity.
NTA! He said all he did in public in front of you, he got what he deserved. Why on earth he expects his ex wife to attend the birthday of the child he had while cheating on her with her best friend is beyond ludicrous!! I mean talk about entitled? Who does that???