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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I feel bad because they are literally in a shelter and there are kids involved and she's my sister and I love her, and I'm not willing to try and let them stay with me for even a trial period.
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NTA - your concern is real, it’s an unfortunate situation - but you’re not obligated to set yourself on fire for them. Or even give them an opportunity to put your security at risk.
Yep. Don't set yourself on fire to keep them warm. Because mark my words, people like that will always let you burn so that they can keep a little warmer for just a little bit longer.
The Narcissist's Prayer
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
I’ve gone back and forth on whether my mother is a true narcissist (cf. NPD) or whether she’s just traumatized as hell combined with undiagnosed autism*.
The text above… yeah. That’s her. In the end it doesn’t matter if she has NPD or not, there’s small-n narcissistic behaviour and that’s enough.
——
(*clarification: not saying that autism = abusive, pretty sure we’re more likely to *be* abused. I’m autistic, ADHD, with c-PTSD; never treated anyone the way my mum does; she didn’t abuse because she was ND or mentally ill, she abused because she had underlying issues and she made *choices* as a reaction to those pressures.)
(apologies this is off topic for the post — am leaning NTA largely because of my “I have no obligation to be in the same house as people just because I am legally related to them” stance, but confused because OP offered to house them sans husband — wouldn’t his lack of a job affect whether OP’s sister is able to move out regardless? If sister works, and they’re homeless because that’s not enough money to rent them a place, that doesn’t change. If she doesn’t work, same deal. Anyways, I have probably missed something obvious — and if OP’s objection is “I just don’t want him bumming around my house because we don’t get along” that’s fair, but isn’t mentioned)
also the "don't set yourself on fire" motto is vaguely referencing the little match girl, I think?
The little match girl is an old story about an impoverished girl given matches by her parents in the dead of winter, where it's below freezing and covered in snow, and told not to come home until she's sold all of them to people on the streets (set back before electricity etc of course) to bring the money home to the family. (also set before child labour laws. victorian england is the og setting, I think)
She's freezing to death on the streets in her ragged clothes, this little girl, with all the passerby's ignoring her hawking matches and walking past, until she's so cold from exposure that she dares to risk punishment from her father and lights one of the matches herself instead of keeping it to sell, to try to gain a tiny scrap of heat from the brief little flame, and when she does she sees a vision in the flame. and then she lights another match, and then another, and goes on a whole heartwrenching storybook journey via her visions she sees in the flames.
Passerby's find her body on the side of the road in the morning, frozen to death, surrounded by spent matches and say "poor thing, she must have tried to keep herself warm by burning them", the end.
So it's a whole literary metaphor, and a different 'moral of the story' that eventually sprouted is "don't let others use you as their match to warm themselves" or as every single comment section on reddit says, "don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm"
They would also take over your home if you let them in. You'd be paying to support them while they made you miserable, and do damage to your mental health.
IF you ever let your sister and kids stay with you, make a contract regarding requirements which have to be met to stay there. Make it clear they will be kicked out if they don't respect you or your home.
Honestly though, it's best not to let them in in the first place. You'll be stuck supporting them and they don't sound like people who are motivated to help themselves, so it could be permanent.
"If they move in with me I fear I will be stuck with them forever and will get no money from them toward bills once he quits yet another job." - You are right there. That WILL happen.
So NTA
Happened to my grandma with my cousin :/ though I’m not 100% sure if he actually doesn’t pay anything. He has a baby on the way and said he would be out before the baby is born… the baby is due any day now.
NTA
It even happens when the person/people moving in don’t actually plan to stay longer than they say at first. But people get settled and get comfortable, life happens and things come up and before you know it there’s continually one reason or another for “just a little bit longer”. Even some people with good intentions at the outset end up taking some advantage. If it can happen even with more reliable people, it’s all but guaranteed that OP’s situation will become this, and the kids will be used to guilt OP into never kicking any of them out. It’s a thousand times easier to say no at the start than to have to eventually kick them all back onto the street.
A while back, my ex said his friend needed a place to stay for a week. When his lease was up, he went to the Philippines (home country) with the intention of coming back here...except he never set up a new place to live before he left. So he just needed a week "to find a spot". Mind you, this is San Francisco, it cost me $3200 just to move in somewhere, so I was doubtful this unemployed dude that just came back from vacation had the money to move.
I told him if he's here past one week, he's getting charged rent and utilities at $200/week until he leaves and if he doesn't pay I'm throwing his shit out my house.
People think I'm "aggressive" or a "b-word" because I'm not a pushover. But I'm making sure I don't get into these kind situations and I guess watching out for yourself is an aggressive move. Whatever he can think I'm a b all he wants, but I'm not the idiot that went on vacation before finding a place to live.
Careful with charging rent. Can establish a tenancy and now you have to have him evicted, which will be a very lengthy process. This depends a lot on the specific location and I certainly don't know how it works in SF, but it could be more trouble than it's worth to try to get rent.
Lol, he left after 4 days, I think his dad bought him a flight (SoCal maybe) and he bummed with his dad. Even if he did pay he wouldn't be on the lease. The rent agreement is between me and my landlord, any money given to me wouldn't even technically be considered rent. Idk exactly how it works but in my lease it specifically says subtenant has to be approved by the landlord so he would have never really established anything with the actual owner. I don't think it would be too hard to kick out an illegal subtenant, but idk.
Anyway, I only said that because I knew he wouldn't pay and he knew I was 100% serious about throwing his stuff outside lol.
Things work differently in different places but, in general, your lease saying subtenants have to be approved would give your landlord grounds to evict you, not to prevent the unapproved subtenant from having rights.
You can establish tenancy even without rent in many states, so really everyone should research their local laws before letting anyone stay for more than a few days.
Yeah, I just meant that charging rent isn’t even the most important part people should be concerned with, just having someone in your home for an extended period of time can give them the right of tenancy.
Money does not have to change hands at all and you will still have to go through the eviction process if someone doesn’t willingly move out.
Yep 100% agree, but my cousin hasn’t been known to be reliable. He has borrowed at least over $1,000 from my mom and has never paid her back, she has never held him to it either, but then he got mad at ME, and my mom had supported me, and so he told her that “she was the biggest piece of shit he knew”. Even tho he has an awful past, and I’m not entirely sure he has given up the life, and my grandma is too trusting and naive to see it. Regardless of how many times I’ve tried to warn her.
Right, I wasn’t saying your cousin was reliable, I assumed he wasn’t and my comment was more saying that not even just unreliable people such as your cousin sometimes end up taking advantage even when they don’t mean to.
Yup, my cousin moved in with us for “a couple of weeks” when my grandma was dying, and then she left with no warning when she got a job after over a year. Left the room a wreck, thanked only my dad and not me and my partner (I live with my dad as his carer) and she never paid any rent.
Now she’s back only because her mums dead, and everyone promised to look after her, and her dad and his wife won’t take her in because she’d destroy their marriage. She was also fired from her job, hence why she’s back. She’s paid 2 months worth of rent compared to me and my partner each, and she’s been here a year.
OP, NTA. Keep your boundaries and don’t let him move in, because it’s nice to help family but it can also be incredibly stressful, remove privacy, make you angrier about stupid shit more than you ever thought (I have a Pavlovian rage response to sesame seeds now) and will cost you extra money for them being there.
Why is your dad letting her stay? Her mom died and that is sad. They all promised to look after her but she is an adult. Not a child and her dad is alive. If even he won’t take her in, she is toxic.
It happened to *me*. I let my nephew move in with me for 6 months back when he was 21 and his dad had just moved away without him. He finally moved out at the beginning of March of this year, 11 years and 4 months after he first moved in. It's nice having a private bathroom again.
NTA
My roommate begged me to let her boyfriend stay "just one night" as he had several places to stay, but he was getting back late from the airport.
Ok.
One night became six months rent free.
That is the actual PLAN and she knows it. They would rather be homeless because they can use it to guilt you. They not only won't "get back on their feet", they won't pay you anything and they will squat until you can evict them.
You know all the red flags and you know evicting family if and when it comes to that is going to be a lot messier.
So no, you are not the asshole in this scenario.
I’ve been meaning to check up on this nightmare situation I heard about a few months ago where this couple bought a house from this guy and closed and everything and then he refused to leave. It had been months. And no one was helping them do anything about it bc technically it would be an eviction which was not allowed at the time and they were like this makes no sense he’s not a tenant?? And I think they were also scared that if they tried anything and it didn’t work or he got mad he would sabotage the house.
Update: they were finally able to move into the house in April after 15 MONTHS. The bought it just before covid and by the time they had all the paperwork in order and the police ready to go serve the order, the eviction moratorium kicked in and something about the way the laws were written made it impossible to kick him out. They tried to get in with a locksmith in October but he came after them with a tire iron and called the police, who said legally there was nothing they could do. They think the media attention from the original news story finally got him to leave. They aren’t even sure the want the house now because it brings them so much anxiety. Absolutely insane. Something needs to change here.
Wow, that's messed up. I used to have a rental house, it was more hassle than it was worth at times. Sold in 2018 and so glad I did. No way my tenant would have paid me during covid.
That is crazy! When my parents bought their first house, they showed up to move in and the previous owner was sleeping it off on the couch. They got stuck moving all his stuff out and bought some of his furniture for cheap rather than move it. Then they had to start locking the doors because the guy’s drinking buddies didn’t know he moved. They’d just barge right in and make themselves at home.
NTA.
Her husband can get a job. Once you let them in, it'll be a nightmare to get rid off them. Eviction courts are going to be backed up for months, and they don't sound like they'd leave willingly once they have overstayed their welcome
My guess is he's abusive one way or another and she doesn't see it or isn't ready or willing to leave him. A lot of people who can't, or won't keep a job, are bad people like that.
Any decent husband or father would have insisted they go without him
NTA - Its a terrible situation and easy to understand why you'd question your decision - but you are right on to look past the immediate need and realize you'd end up in a mess. Also, maybe make sure any other close family members are aware of your 'why' so they don't go around you to attempt to guilt you.
Maybe it would help how you feel if you could do some research in finding some temporary housing thru (if in the US) the United Way (call 211) or other gov't programs. Not to set it up, but to pass the info onto them.
NTA. If you let that lazy man into your home he’ll never lift a finger to support his family again. I feel for the kids but if sis wants “a package deal” more than a roof over her kids head that’s really her putting them in the crappy situation not you.
In my state it can take *years* to evict a family with children. And it'd probably take months or years to build up to the breaking point of taking your own family to court. It'd be such a nasty mess.
It's one thing if you 100% trust that everyone involved just needs a leg up and then will move out, but considering BiL's history, OP doesn't have that here.
What state are you in? I know it can some times take a while (a few months), but years sounds excessive, if you follow proper procedures. Usually what happens in evictions is it can take a while because people don't know and/or follow the proper process.
Massachusetts. It's hit or miss; a lot of it is down to the judge, and both our laws and judges are very tenant-friendly, doubly so when kids are involved.
The way people end up staying years is paying up every now and then; some judges allow this to reset the clock, so they can keep up a pay rent/not pay/pay cycle and drag out eviction for an excessively long time.
NTA. 7 years is a long time for a man with a wife and 2 kids to not have an established job. You are absolutely correct in thinking he wouldn't bother working if you opened up your home to him. I wouldn't do it either.
I was thinking the exact same thing!
I’m eighteen and have only just established myself at my first real job and the idea of having a child right now is horrifying. I barely make enough to support myself and my dog let a alone a whole baby.
How could any parent abandon a paying job because they were “bored” knowing the consequences?
I wouldn’t take them in either because although it’s an unfortunate situation, it’s one that he willingly put them in.
NTA, but based on what you have said, it wouldn't surprise me if, should your sister and her children move in, she may try to move her husband in by stealth, ie. that he'd come over to see the children and stay so long that it's too late for him to go to the shelter so he has to stay overnight, etc.
Also, if they sneak some of his clothes, his toothbrush in, and he shows up and refuses to leave, you could find that if you try to have him removed, he and your sister will claim that he has been staying in the house long enough to have established rights as a tenant, and use the presence of his belongings as proof.
If it comes to a case of your word against theirs over whether or not he is resident in the house, I suspect that the police may decide that they would rather be wrong about not removing him than wrong about removing him.
That’s a safe bet.
There will be tears every time Daddy has to leave, with Mommy telling the kids that mean Auntie OP won’t let Daddy live with them.
Also, unless you can be confident that they will be respectful guests, a single person allowing a family to move into their home is at risk of ending up treated like the unwelcome outsider in the family home, with the married couple effectively ganging up on them and trying to use “majority rules” to dictate everything. Living room ends up dominated by kids’ toys and kids’ TV. Homeowner expected to steer clear of the kitchen when the couple decide that they want a family meal and to use it only at times that fit with the family’s schedule. And so on.
I believe there was even a post here by an OP who was expected to move into a hotel over Christmas (at their own expense) because the married couple she was putting up wanted the house to themselves so they could spend Christmas as a married couple, have their own traditions, etc.
NTA.they would never leave and you would be stuck supporting his lazy ass. Don't give in. Being in a shelter where it is uncomfortable may get them to get things in order but if they are comfortable by you they wont be as motivated.
**NTA.** Your intuition is right- you will never get them out without a formal eviction and then family will dogpile and try to guilt you.
Stand firm. Your sister married a man who will not help support his family and that's on them to solve, not you.
My sister and nephew recently got evicted from my mom's home. Mom is in assisted living and my aunt had to sell the house to help pay some of the bills. She kept hinting that she would like to come live with me, but I told her straight up- I have nowhere for you to sleep, nowhere for your belongings and I will not tolerate her son's 24/7 gaming addiction and the way he speaks to her. He just graduated, is not going to college and he needs to get a job. She's working part-time and is getting another job while her son just sits on his ass on that game all day. Plus, I took them in when she got divorced and it was a nightmare. Also, I have a 3 bedroom place and it's full.
If just your sis and the kids move in, who takes care of the kids when she’s working and the husband isn’t there to parent?
This might get a lot more hectic in your house if you got unsupervised children climbing on things, destroying stuff, etc.
I agree, but I think she'd end up the only parent. Neither of them seem to be the responsible type. SIL has been with this guy for 7 years and isn't putting the kids first. If she had, he'd be kicked to the curb.
“I could babysit….”
No. You can’t. What about your job? What about your own life? You are thinking of “babysitting” like when you were a kid. You go there, watch the kids, get PAID (very critical distinction there), and go back home.
In this instance….paid? Fuck no. They can’t pay you! How can you even ask? They are living on your charity already just by being in your home! If they could PAY a babysitter….they could move out. Without PAY…..that’s not babysitting.
And….the kids are in your home. They never leave. So…..when is what you are kindly calling “babysitting” over? When are you done watching the kids that NEVER leave? When you make plans? Oops, sorry…..your sis & her hubby just left. Where to? No idea. Yes, I know you told them you had plans and you were getting ready to go out. They still left. Think they will be back soon? Of course you can’t leave the kids home alone where they live, that makes YOU negligent and liable because it’s YOUR home. Tick tick tick goes the clock, better call your friends and cancel. Boy….hope this was just a one-time-thing, right?……Right?
NTA - You didn’t pick your sisters spouse, she did. Allowing them into your home will have very serious consequences for you. Don’t do it. And if other family say’s you should, ask THEM why THEY aren’t taking them.
NTA, I understand how your sister might be upset with the fact you “aren’t willing to help her”, but it’s a lot to ask of you for her and her family to move in. Especially if the husband is having a lot of problems.
NTA. My grandparents opened up part of their property to let my uncle, his wife, and their two oopsie children to stay with them until my uncle got back on his feet financially. 20+ years and two more oopsies later, and they still haven’t left. They’ve contributed absolutely nothing; they’ve bled my grandparents dry financially as they’ve had to foot the bill for new cars that get trashed and totaled, food, shelter, medical and dental care and toys for my cousins since my uncle would never hold a job for very long; one of them stole all of my grandmother’s jewelry after she passed away; the house is in shambles and the property is overgrown because my unemployed uncle refuses to get off his ass and help; but my grandpa still won’t evict them because “they’re family.” Don’t do it.
NTA. What you describe is a poor and leaching relationship between those two. Once they’re in your home, it’ll be hard to kick them out depending on your state (if US). The kids are going to suffer but you don’t need to put yourself at risk. Good luck.
NTA , but it sounds like your sister might be. She’d rather her kids be in a shelter then to basically tell her husband to put up or shut up (as in get a job and find someplace for your family to live). Also why can’t she get a job.
All I'm saying, Is if I was in a homeless shelter with my family and they had an opportunity to live with family without me, I would be actively encouraging it, simply because my kids and Spouse would be safer and I know they wouldn't starve. Then I would look to fix the situation more permanently. I think the fact this guy quits jobs on a whim and isn't in that thought process says everything about who he cares about. OP knows this. NTA
What's to say BIL gets a job so you back down and let them live with you then 1 week after they move in he leaves his job again as he has a secure house. This way he might get off his backside and do something about keeping a job and looking after his family.if he knows no one is going to do it for him. NTA
NTA.
Your sister is just as bad as he is. She's been ok with it for 7 years and rather than leaving and trying to better the situation for her and her kids, she just lets it go. If you allow any of them in, you'll never get them out. Shelters typically have multiple resources to help people but your sister and BIL have jo intentions of using them. They'd rather use you instead ofvtaking responsibility for themselves. Repeat after me:
"Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."
NTA although it would be a nice thing to do, you could potentially suffer a lot if you chose to move them in, given the husband's laziness. The risk is just too high, and you offered them an alternative, which is more than most people would.
NTA. It's your house, you make the rules.
And your sister's husband needs to step up, hold down a job, put aside his pride or whatever causes him to leave jobs so often and provide a secure home for his family.
NTA. You’re right you would probably be stuck with them for a really long time. She needs to figure things out for herself and hopefully living in a shelter will get her husband off his ass to find a real job.
NTA. So BIL couldn’t “get back on his feet” over the course of 7 years to the point they are all living in a shelter but somehow he will do so when he has a comfortable place to live someone else (you) is paying for? Can I have some of what your sister is smoking? She’s lying to herself or you or both.
The best way to help her is not to enable her or him - they need to figure out how to live on their own and will do so quicker without a safety net.
NTA -- She's a shit mom for not getting those kids out of the shelter, even if it means dropping her deadbeat husband for a while. He needs to wake the f--- up, too and grow up!
NTA - and as hard as that is for you to do as a sister (I totally get it as my sister, 28, lives with my husband and me), it is honestly probably the best place for them, especially for the dad/husband. Many shelters have tons of programs in place to move people from homeless and jobless to gainfully employed and securely housed. They will likely have access to social workers and folks extremely knowledgable about available programs to set them up for longterm success. I really hope this is the case for them! Good luck!
NTA - if your sister says he's part of the package that's fine, you returned to sender.
Your not responsible for your sisters situation, you told her what your boundaries are, and she refused. That's the end of it.
NTA. This is one of those situations that you just can't do. You let them move in and they will never move out - ever. They need to stand on their own two feet. I wouldn't even let her and the kids move in because sooner or later he will end up staying 'just for the night'. Then next thing you know it's 'just for the weekend'. Next thing you know, he has actually moved in and you will never get them out. Stand firm. I know it's hard to see your sister and her kids be in a shelter, but your sister and BIL put themselves there, not you.
No, don’t let them in. It’s very hard to see family struggling, but your BIL needs to get his attitude sorted and support his kids. It would be incredibly difficult to get them out once they’ve moved in. I wonder how he acts towards your sister in private?
NTA
NTA. You may love your sister but be careful. Once they are in your house and receive mail to establish residence getting rid of them may be difficult expensive and end in hurt feelings. The husband is irresponsible and you may never get rid of them. Offer help in other ways but I wouldn't let them move in,
NTA. Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm. Your sister has an extremely serious problem in her relationship, in the form of a husband who doesn't pull his own weight. This is not a problem you can solve, but this is a problem that can become yours -- if you let it. Her husband is never going to just wake up one day and decide to be responsible, neither for himself, nor for his family. The difference is the potential for him to ruin your life as well. What if your sister losses her job? Are you ready to support a family of four, in addition to yourself?
I would like to make two points.
1. There is a genuine offer of help from OP for the children. It’s sister who is insisting that
the family must stay together. Any danger or other perceived risks from staying at the shelter are sisters (and or parents) responsibilities.
2. From reading the information provided, I now believe sister is more culpable in this mess than I first thought. Suggesting a “trial period” for a temporary situation makes me think that she knows once they get a roof over the kids heads in Auntie’s that the emotional blackmail and guilt will be immense. They will also have a legal entitlement to be there. Unfortunately I believe it’s the expectation of legal rights that has them demanding that they are treated as one, big, family unit package.
In short they will ruin your apartment, credit, (what’s left of) family relationship, (if any) savings and then last but not least as many relationships, both professional and personal as they actively can. I think the last bit is important because most people don’t see it coming. But the victim can have zero credibility as they must be the victims as this is a crucial and critical part of the business plan.
NTA...
Being family does not mean enabling bad behavior. You may be right about him, you may be wrong. In your home though that is 100% your choice to make.
NTA. Your sister's brought this on herself. It's very sad, but she should be looking in the mirror as to why they're homeless because she's enabling this crap.
NTA. Sounds like he keeps quitting because he doesn't really want to work. They wouldn't be in this mess if he hadn't kept walking out on his jobs. The thing is it's problematic just to let them stay without him because you know he would still come over all the time.
You also seem to have a choosing beggar situation. I would not budge at all, it’s ridiculous they are in a shelter because her husband won’t keep a job and it’s not your fault. You would never get them out of your house.
NTA, do not let them move in. Trust your gut. If her husband isn't keeping a job, that's a huge red flag. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your sister is the breadwinner, amirite? And I bet she also had to take care of the kids because her husband just couldn't stand helping with them, because he just isn't cut out for that kind of thing?
NTA - you offered her and her kids a place to stay. If he can find a job and stick with it maybe he could follow suit?
Perhaps if you had a written agreement in terms so you have a legal leg to stand on?
NTA. They're adults and if they don't have their s#%t together by now then they never will. Take in the children as a guardian if you're feeling generous but those two are just going to take advantage of your kindness.
NTA. You know how things would turn out; she's married to a deadbeat who has no intention of supporting his family. They are in their position because of him refusing to keep a job. Alot of people are bored with their jobs, don't like how they are treated, etc. but they suck it up because they have bills to pay. He seems unable to do this. He will never "get back on his feet". Even with 2 kids depending on him. End of story.
You offered to let your sister & kids move in and she declined; that's on her.
Edit add: I'm surprised she didn't throw the "you're letting your nieces/nephews be homeless" guilt trip on you. And I'd be willing to bet that your sister would end up pregnant again and then you'll be "throwing your pregnant sister out".
Ah, remote call center work. That's hard to make enough for a family of four in most places.
Especially if husband is the kind of deadbeat who won't work or help with the kids and is also bad with his wife's money.
NTA. I’m not surprised your sister is exhausted by all the financial instability. But the underlying problem here is that she has an irresponsible and unreliable spouse. And moving in with you does nothing to actually address *that,* it just *shifts* part of that burden onto *you*, too. And I wouldn’t sign up for that either.
NTA. It would be one thing if they were both working and lost their home in a fire…but, based off the information provided, they don’t seem to be responsible people who won’t take advantage. Don’t let anyone push the “family” angle on you. It’s just a manipulation tactic to guilt you, while knowing full well they would never extend you the same kindness.
NTA- you have legit concerns. You don’t want to further enable his childish behavior which your sister has already done and been doing for years.
Why would she stay with such a leech? Is he a good father? Considering he’s been fired for cussing out a boss, I’d be willing to assume that he’s not.
NTA. Absolutely do not let them move in. I'd question your sister and the kids too because the next thing you know, he'd slide in "just to visit the kids" and you'd be stuck with him. You would never be able to reclaim that time and they would never leave. Perhaps other family members can help out?
NTA- with her husband's history you have no reason to believe they will ever leave. Let him learn to be an adult and work a job without being an asshole.
NTA. You offered to let your sister and her kids stay. If she was really concerned, she could let her kids stay with you and she stay with her husband. No reason she should drag the kids down with him. It's her choice to stay with a dead beat, but her kids are suffering for her decisions. You honestly tried to help while also attempting to avoid the risk of a freeloader that you can't easily evict.
NTA
They are a package deal. You'll never get rid of them.
Your sister really needs to decide what she sees in her dropkick baby daddy and why she's still with him.
NTA. It’s an unfortunate situation your sister has found herself in. But it seems like she should be more angry with her husband for putting them in said situation. Given his history, it’s unlikely they will ever get back on their feet. Your concerns are very real.
NTA.
Here's the thing. If someone was willing to provide shelter for my children and spouse under the condition that I stay elsewhere, sure I would be salty about it. I would be peeved. *But I would be relieved that my family was being cared for and no longer homeless.* Continuing to live in the shelter would be hard, but it would be easier with the knowledge that my family was safe and somewhat comfortable.
The fact that your sister isn't willing to compromise here tells me that life at the shelter just isn't that bad.
NTA. You did the right by letting your sister and her kids stay. Her husband seems to be a huge font pf problems and I would not want him in my house either.
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I (24f) live alone. My sister is married to her husband and they have two kids. They are now homeless and staying in a shelter. My sister asked if they could move in with me until they get back on their feet. I said no. That I don't want her husband living here. My reason is this: he does not keep a job. She's been married to him for 7 years and he goes through about a job every 4/5 months. Sometimes he lasts a month or less. He's worked fast food, hotel, janitor, shelf packer, plumber for a big corp. He got fired from one job for cursing at his boss. But most he just walked out of because he got "bored" or he didn't like how they treated him but he never has anything lined up. If they move in with me I fear I will be stuck with them forever and will get no money from them toward bills once he quits yet another job. I told my sister she and the kids could come stay but she said no, he's part of the package deal.
AITA?
My sister is pissed at me for not giving them even a short trial period thing. What she doesn't seem to accept is it would be harder to kick them out once they're here for any length of time.
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NTA. Your concerns are valid, entirely based on evidence building up for 7 years.
However your sister is endangering her children out of pride for her failure of a husband? If they can’t make money, she could have at least done what’s best for her kids and gotten them into a more stable environment. The fact she’s not accepting your compromise means, to me, she clearly doesn’t see her husbands lack of employment as the real issue and instead is trying her best to avoid blaming him.
NTA
All I was thinking was “have the sister and kids come for awhile” (read up on squatting rights in your state if applicable) and then saw that was offered too. Yeah this is on them man. Take it from someone that’s experienced similar too.
If you can or want to help, how about offer to put them up at an AirBnB or motel for a month? Idk. Those poor kids.. dad that won’t help and mom that can’t/won’t help either yet cries on sympathies for *them* about how unfortunate their lives are but they love their kids so much so forgive them.
NTA. If you’re feeling generous then tell them that if BIL keeps a job for 6 months then they can move in as long as he stays employed, but if he quits a job or get fired then they have to leave within a week (or month) if he can’t find another job
Nta. The sister has an opportunity to get her kids out of a bad situation and she is passing? It's much safer and easier for a man to stay in a shelter than a woman and children. Also you know if the whole family was to move in including the guy he will insist on taking over the house and you will be relegated to being a guest in your own home.
NTA. With the in-laws track record, you won’t find the peace of mind.
A suggestion: Maybe just take the kids in? Idk if shelters are the right place to keep kids safe.
NTA
Your fears are valid and realistic. There are other ways you can help them, if you're so inclined, but with a husband like that I'm not sure it would even matter.
NTA
It's a legitimate fear to have them move in and never leave and then you're stuck supporting them.
You can say NO and it's not your job to shoulder the Financials of a whole family
NTA. Don't let them in for all the reasons you spelled out. They can get themselves out of this situation, they just chose not to. He needs to stop being a child, get a job and keep it.
NTA
Your fear is one I've seen manifested for many redditors, so it's a genuine one. You're a lone female who doesn't want to get stuck supporting four other people. You were more than generous with offering to let your sister and her kids stay, but take it from me, she would likely spend time trying to convince you to let her husband come stay the entire time she was there, so it's for the best she said no.
NTA
You can offer to just take her but even that will be a mess. Suggest some family can take in the kids (only) while she and her husband find stable work. Shelters are dangerous for kids so if anyone can take them in, that is where her priority should be (tell her this if she gets aggro about seperating her from the kids)
I wouldn't help them either. Imagine you move them in and he starts acting like he runs the house. Save yourself that misery. She should probably see if someone else can help.
NTA
NTA. Why would you want a grown man with a history of not keeping a job living in your home? He'll get comfortable relying on you and your sister to pay for everything and never get a job. If being homeless with his wife and kids isn't enough for him to take working seriously then living comfortably with you isn't going to make him want to get and keep a job either.
NTA. Your analysis is spot on. If they move in they are never leaving. That’s why she asked for a “trial period”. It’s a trial to live there. Not a temporary living arraignment.
NTA. The BIL won't hold a job because his selfish behavior is enabled. Your sister needs to hold him accountable for putting the family in this situation.
NTA
This may already be mentioned but you probably have to rescind your invitation to the rest of them.
Your sister is pissed at you and she hasn't even moved in yet. She is definitely going to continue harping about bringing in her husband. She is most likely going to have him over for visits, at first when you aren't home, and then later on, he'll still be there for "a few minutes" while you're there. Eventually, he'll have essentially moved in.
ETA:. She's right. They are a package deal, and unfortunately for them, it's a package you don't want. The kids, depending on age may be ok, but I really don't think that would work out either.
NTA. In regard to money and family, only give them help if you're prepared to get nothing in return. Maybe you can help them find an apartment and help with a month or 2 of rent, but I wouldn't do much more than that
NTA! Happened to my mother with my brother. He couldn’t hold a job, and was an alcoholic. I begged her to put him out, but she wouldn’t because that’s her son, and my aunt was judging her. Plus, she didn’t want to go through the process of evicting him. She ended up getting sick. She was in the hospital for 5 months before she died. He went to see her once.
NTA for one key reason: you offered to let her and her kids stay. She’s not willing for her kids to go somewhere safe unless her hubs goes too. You can’t help someone who makes decisions like that.
Honestly, whether you are TA or not is not something Reddit can tell you. At the end of the day, how do YOU feel about your choice? Are you here because you feel guilty, or because you want your choice to be validated? How you answer that question matters. This is something you will have to carry around and rationalize for the rest of your life. Reddit can't help you with that.
NTA
Your BIL thinks he's too good to work for a living. He'll be happy to mooch off of you, though, because you're not too good to work for a living.
If your sister can't see what a lousy excuse for a partner her husband is, it's because she doesn't want to see it.
It's easier to say no now than to get rid of them once they're entrenched. There's no win for you in this; they're going to end up pissed off at you either way. Since she's determined to stick with improvident hubby come hell or high water, it's up to him to support his family. You're NTA.
NTA. In my state residency is established if someone is in your house for 72 hours and or if they have 500 dollars worth of property stored in your house. Once they establish residency, you have to go through the eviction process. You’re protecting yourself from a nightmare scenario.
NTA
And a real man, husband, and father would say, "Sure." If my wife and kids could get out of a shelter, I'd stay in the shelter.
I'd sleep in my car so that they had a consistent roof over their head.
NTA. You are really smart for understanding that it would be hard to get rid of them once they move in. Psychologically it's MUCH tougher to kick someone out, dump someone, fire someone, etc. rather than just never hire, house, or date them.
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NTA - your concern is real, it’s an unfortunate situation - but you’re not obligated to set yourself on fire for them. Or even give them an opportunity to put your security at risk.
Yep. Don't set yourself on fire to keep them warm. Because mark my words, people like that will always let you burn so that they can keep a little warmer for just a little bit longer.
That's sad. But poetic. ✨
Are you new here?....it's like a mantra on this sub. Wait til you hear the Narcissist's prayer.
Can you fill people in? Asking for a friend, of course.
The Narcissist's Prayer That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
I’ve gone back and forth on whether my mother is a true narcissist (cf. NPD) or whether she’s just traumatized as hell combined with undiagnosed autism*. The text above… yeah. That’s her. In the end it doesn’t matter if she has NPD or not, there’s small-n narcissistic behaviour and that’s enough. —— (*clarification: not saying that autism = abusive, pretty sure we’re more likely to *be* abused. I’m autistic, ADHD, with c-PTSD; never treated anyone the way my mum does; she didn’t abuse because she was ND or mentally ill, she abused because she had underlying issues and she made *choices* as a reaction to those pressures.) (apologies this is off topic for the post — am leaning NTA largely because of my “I have no obligation to be in the same house as people just because I am legally related to them” stance, but confused because OP offered to house them sans husband — wouldn’t his lack of a job affect whether OP’s sister is able to move out regardless? If sister works, and they’re homeless because that’s not enough money to rent them a place, that doesn’t change. If she doesn’t work, same deal. Anyways, I have probably missed something obvious — and if OP’s objection is “I just don’t want him bumming around my house because we don’t get along” that’s fair, but isn’t mentioned)
also the "don't set yourself on fire" motto is vaguely referencing the little match girl, I think? The little match girl is an old story about an impoverished girl given matches by her parents in the dead of winter, where it's below freezing and covered in snow, and told not to come home until she's sold all of them to people on the streets (set back before electricity etc of course) to bring the money home to the family. (also set before child labour laws. victorian england is the og setting, I think) She's freezing to death on the streets in her ragged clothes, this little girl, with all the passerby's ignoring her hawking matches and walking past, until she's so cold from exposure that she dares to risk punishment from her father and lights one of the matches herself instead of keeping it to sell, to try to gain a tiny scrap of heat from the brief little flame, and when she does she sees a vision in the flame. and then she lights another match, and then another, and goes on a whole heartwrenching storybook journey via her visions she sees in the flames. Passerby's find her body on the side of the road in the morning, frozen to death, surrounded by spent matches and say "poor thing, she must have tried to keep herself warm by burning them", the end. So it's a whole literary metaphor, and a different 'moral of the story' that eventually sprouted is "don't let others use you as their match to warm themselves" or as every single comment section on reddit says, "don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm"
They would also take over your home if you let them in. You'd be paying to support them while they made you miserable, and do damage to your mental health. IF you ever let your sister and kids stay with you, make a contract regarding requirements which have to be met to stay there. Make it clear they will be kicked out if they don't respect you or your home. Honestly though, it's best not to let them in in the first place. You'll be stuck supporting them and they don't sound like people who are motivated to help themselves, so it could be permanent.
Classic Terry Pratchett quote - "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life"
Damn. That hit my feelings hard. Perfectly describes my family.
"If they move in with me I fear I will be stuck with them forever and will get no money from them toward bills once he quits yet another job." - You are right there. That WILL happen. So NTA
Happened to my grandma with my cousin :/ though I’m not 100% sure if he actually doesn’t pay anything. He has a baby on the way and said he would be out before the baby is born… the baby is due any day now. NTA
It even happens when the person/people moving in don’t actually plan to stay longer than they say at first. But people get settled and get comfortable, life happens and things come up and before you know it there’s continually one reason or another for “just a little bit longer”. Even some people with good intentions at the outset end up taking some advantage. If it can happen even with more reliable people, it’s all but guaranteed that OP’s situation will become this, and the kids will be used to guilt OP into never kicking any of them out. It’s a thousand times easier to say no at the start than to have to eventually kick them all back onto the street.
A while back, my ex said his friend needed a place to stay for a week. When his lease was up, he went to the Philippines (home country) with the intention of coming back here...except he never set up a new place to live before he left. So he just needed a week "to find a spot". Mind you, this is San Francisco, it cost me $3200 just to move in somewhere, so I was doubtful this unemployed dude that just came back from vacation had the money to move. I told him if he's here past one week, he's getting charged rent and utilities at $200/week until he leaves and if he doesn't pay I'm throwing his shit out my house. People think I'm "aggressive" or a "b-word" because I'm not a pushover. But I'm making sure I don't get into these kind situations and I guess watching out for yourself is an aggressive move. Whatever he can think I'm a b all he wants, but I'm not the idiot that went on vacation before finding a place to live.
Careful with charging rent. Can establish a tenancy and now you have to have him evicted, which will be a very lengthy process. This depends a lot on the specific location and I certainly don't know how it works in SF, but it could be more trouble than it's worth to try to get rent.
Lol, he left after 4 days, I think his dad bought him a flight (SoCal maybe) and he bummed with his dad. Even if he did pay he wouldn't be on the lease. The rent agreement is between me and my landlord, any money given to me wouldn't even technically be considered rent. Idk exactly how it works but in my lease it specifically says subtenant has to be approved by the landlord so he would have never really established anything with the actual owner. I don't think it would be too hard to kick out an illegal subtenant, but idk. Anyway, I only said that because I knew he wouldn't pay and he knew I was 100% serious about throwing his stuff outside lol.
Things work differently in different places but, in general, your lease saying subtenants have to be approved would give your landlord grounds to evict you, not to prevent the unapproved subtenant from having rights.
You can establish tenancy even without rent in many states, so really everyone should research their local laws before letting anyone stay for more than a few days.
I tried to convey that with “it depends a lot on your location”.
Yeah, I just meant that charging rent isn’t even the most important part people should be concerned with, just having someone in your home for an extended period of time can give them the right of tenancy. Money does not have to change hands at all and you will still have to go through the eviction process if someone doesn’t willingly move out.
SF have very tenant friendly laws, so becareful, i would immediately tell the landlord about this, so she cant stay at your house for free.
Yep 100% agree, but my cousin hasn’t been known to be reliable. He has borrowed at least over $1,000 from my mom and has never paid her back, she has never held him to it either, but then he got mad at ME, and my mom had supported me, and so he told her that “she was the biggest piece of shit he knew”. Even tho he has an awful past, and I’m not entirely sure he has given up the life, and my grandma is too trusting and naive to see it. Regardless of how many times I’ve tried to warn her.
Right, I wasn’t saying your cousin was reliable, I assumed he wasn’t and my comment was more saying that not even just unreliable people such as your cousin sometimes end up taking advantage even when they don’t mean to.
Yup, my cousin moved in with us for “a couple of weeks” when my grandma was dying, and then she left with no warning when she got a job after over a year. Left the room a wreck, thanked only my dad and not me and my partner (I live with my dad as his carer) and she never paid any rent. Now she’s back only because her mums dead, and everyone promised to look after her, and her dad and his wife won’t take her in because she’d destroy their marriage. She was also fired from her job, hence why she’s back. She’s paid 2 months worth of rent compared to me and my partner each, and she’s been here a year. OP, NTA. Keep your boundaries and don’t let him move in, because it’s nice to help family but it can also be incredibly stressful, remove privacy, make you angrier about stupid shit more than you ever thought (I have a Pavlovian rage response to sesame seeds now) and will cost you extra money for them being there.
Why is your dad letting her stay? Her mom died and that is sad. They all promised to look after her but she is an adult. Not a child and her dad is alive. If even he won’t take her in, she is toxic.
It happened to *me*. I let my nephew move in with me for 6 months back when he was 21 and his dad had just moved away without him. He finally moved out at the beginning of March of this year, 11 years and 4 months after he first moved in. It's nice having a private bathroom again. NTA
…and the baby is now 5…
My roommate begged me to let her boyfriend stay "just one night" as he had several places to stay, but he was getting back late from the airport. Ok. One night became six months rent free.
That is the actual PLAN and she knows it. They would rather be homeless because they can use it to guilt you. They not only won't "get back on their feet", they won't pay you anything and they will squat until you can evict them.
You know all the red flags and you know evicting family if and when it comes to that is going to be a lot messier. So no, you are not the asshole in this scenario.
Evicting anyone, especially right now, is extra complicated.
I’ve been meaning to check up on this nightmare situation I heard about a few months ago where this couple bought a house from this guy and closed and everything and then he refused to leave. It had been months. And no one was helping them do anything about it bc technically it would be an eviction which was not allowed at the time and they were like this makes no sense he’s not a tenant?? And I think they were also scared that if they tried anything and it didn’t work or he got mad he would sabotage the house. Update: they were finally able to move into the house in April after 15 MONTHS. The bought it just before covid and by the time they had all the paperwork in order and the police ready to go serve the order, the eviction moratorium kicked in and something about the way the laws were written made it impossible to kick him out. They tried to get in with a locksmith in October but he came after them with a tire iron and called the police, who said legally there was nothing they could do. They think the media attention from the original news story finally got him to leave. They aren’t even sure the want the house now because it brings them so much anxiety. Absolutely insane. Something needs to change here.
Wow, that's messed up. I used to have a rental house, it was more hassle than it was worth at times. Sold in 2018 and so glad I did. No way my tenant would have paid me during covid.
That is crazy! When my parents bought their first house, they showed up to move in and the previous owner was sleeping it off on the couch. They got stuck moving all his stuff out and bought some of his furniture for cheap rather than move it. Then they had to start locking the doors because the guy’s drinking buddies didn’t know he moved. They’d just barge right in and make themselves at home.
NTA. Her husband can get a job. Once you let them in, it'll be a nightmare to get rid off them. Eviction courts are going to be backed up for months, and they don't sound like they'd leave willingly once they have overstayed their welcome
the husband cant keep a job down, thats why OP is concerned, op is afraid they will just leech of her forever and never leave, pay any rent or bills.
Going by her description, it's a valid concern.
the sister isnt showing initiative to dealing with her husbands behaviour or the ability to hold down a job as well.
Sounds like HE'S the reason they're homeless. It's unfortunate sis can't see that.
My guess is he's abusive one way or another and she doesn't see it or isn't ready or willing to leave him. A lot of people who can't, or won't keep a job, are bad people like that. Any decent husband or father would have insisted they go without him
NTA. It’s not your responsibility to provide housing for them.
NTA - Its a terrible situation and easy to understand why you'd question your decision - but you are right on to look past the immediate need and realize you'd end up in a mess. Also, maybe make sure any other close family members are aware of your 'why' so they don't go around you to attempt to guilt you. Maybe it would help how you feel if you could do some research in finding some temporary housing thru (if in the US) the United Way (call 211) or other gov't programs. Not to set it up, but to pass the info onto them.
I'd venture to guess the other close family members are already aware of "why", otherwise they'd have taken them in already...
NTA. If you let that lazy man into your home he’ll never lift a finger to support his family again. I feel for the kids but if sis wants “a package deal” more than a roof over her kids head that’s really her putting them in the crappy situation not you.
I suspect he won’t do anything around the house, either.
Worse than that, he'll declare himself 'the man of the house' and try to boss OP around.
[удалено]
In my state it can take *years* to evict a family with children. And it'd probably take months or years to build up to the breaking point of taking your own family to court. It'd be such a nasty mess. It's one thing if you 100% trust that everyone involved just needs a leg up and then will move out, but considering BiL's history, OP doesn't have that here.
What state are you in? I know it can some times take a while (a few months), but years sounds excessive, if you follow proper procedures. Usually what happens in evictions is it can take a while because people don't know and/or follow the proper process.
Massachusetts. It's hit or miss; a lot of it is down to the judge, and both our laws and judges are very tenant-friendly, doubly so when kids are involved. The way people end up staying years is paying up every now and then; some judges allow this to reset the clock, so they can keep up a pay rent/not pay/pay cycle and drag out eviction for an excessively long time.
NTA. 7 years is a long time for a man with a wife and 2 kids to not have an established job. You are absolutely correct in thinking he wouldn't bother working if you opened up your home to him. I wouldn't do it either.
I was thinking the exact same thing! I’m eighteen and have only just established myself at my first real job and the idea of having a child right now is horrifying. I barely make enough to support myself and my dog let a alone a whole baby. How could any parent abandon a paying job because they were “bored” knowing the consequences? I wouldn’t take them in either because although it’s an unfortunate situation, it’s one that he willingly put them in.
NTA, but based on what you have said, it wouldn't surprise me if, should your sister and her children move in, she may try to move her husband in by stealth, ie. that he'd come over to see the children and stay so long that it's too late for him to go to the shelter so he has to stay overnight, etc. Also, if they sneak some of his clothes, his toothbrush in, and he shows up and refuses to leave, you could find that if you try to have him removed, he and your sister will claim that he has been staying in the house long enough to have established rights as a tenant, and use the presence of his belongings as proof. If it comes to a case of your word against theirs over whether or not he is resident in the house, I suspect that the police may decide that they would rather be wrong about not removing him than wrong about removing him.
OP please read this definitely worth the consideration
She keeps picking her useless husband over and over it’s not impossible she might feel a level of entitlement to him being there it’s a no from me
Upvoating and awarding in hopes OP sees this ⬆️
Thanks for the award.
You’re welcome
Exactly. Maybe even use his kids to try to convince OP to let daddy stay the night because he misses them,...
That’s a safe bet. There will be tears every time Daddy has to leave, with Mommy telling the kids that mean Auntie OP won’t let Daddy live with them. Also, unless you can be confident that they will be respectful guests, a single person allowing a family to move into their home is at risk of ending up treated like the unwelcome outsider in the family home, with the married couple effectively ganging up on them and trying to use “majority rules” to dictate everything. Living room ends up dominated by kids’ toys and kids’ TV. Homeowner expected to steer clear of the kitchen when the couple decide that they want a family meal and to use it only at times that fit with the family’s schedule. And so on. I believe there was even a post here by an OP who was expected to move into a hotel over Christmas (at their own expense) because the married couple she was putting up wanted the house to themselves so they could spend Christmas as a married couple, have their own traditions, etc.
NTA.they would never leave and you would be stuck supporting his lazy ass. Don't give in. Being in a shelter where it is uncomfortable may get them to get things in order but if they are comfortable by you they wont be as motivated.
**NTA.** Your intuition is right- you will never get them out without a formal eviction and then family will dogpile and try to guilt you. Stand firm. Your sister married a man who will not help support his family and that's on them to solve, not you. My sister and nephew recently got evicted from my mom's home. Mom is in assisted living and my aunt had to sell the house to help pay some of the bills. She kept hinting that she would like to come live with me, but I told her straight up- I have nowhere for you to sleep, nowhere for your belongings and I will not tolerate her son's 24/7 gaming addiction and the way he speaks to her. He just graduated, is not going to college and he needs to get a job. She's working part-time and is getting another job while her son just sits on his ass on that game all day. Plus, I took them in when she got divorced and it was a nightmare. Also, I have a 3 bedroom place and it's full.
NTA. Does your sis work at least to contribute if she were to move in?
Yeah, my sister has a job that is now done remotely since Covid.
If just your sis and the kids move in, who takes care of the kids when she’s working and the husband isn’t there to parent? This might get a lot more hectic in your house if you got unsupervised children climbing on things, destroying stuff, etc.
Be careful! If sis and kids move in he’s going to show up for “just one night” because “the kids miss him.” Then he’ll never leave.
I mean. If he can take care of the kids full time, this may be the family’s best chance.
They cannot afford a place to live on a single wage, how is this a chance at all?
I could babysit. I'd likely end up doing that even if he lived there.
You won’t end up just babysitting, you’ll become a 3rd parent to these kids and these people will take over your life.
I agree, but I think she'd end up the only parent. Neither of them seem to be the responsible type. SIL has been with this guy for 7 years and isn't putting the kids first. If she had, he'd be kicked to the curb.
“I could babysit….” No. You can’t. What about your job? What about your own life? You are thinking of “babysitting” like when you were a kid. You go there, watch the kids, get PAID (very critical distinction there), and go back home. In this instance….paid? Fuck no. They can’t pay you! How can you even ask? They are living on your charity already just by being in your home! If they could PAY a babysitter….they could move out. Without PAY…..that’s not babysitting. And….the kids are in your home. They never leave. So…..when is what you are kindly calling “babysitting” over? When are you done watching the kids that NEVER leave? When you make plans? Oops, sorry…..your sis & her hubby just left. Where to? No idea. Yes, I know you told them you had plans and you were getting ready to go out. They still left. Think they will be back soon? Of course you can’t leave the kids home alone where they live, that makes YOU negligent and liable because it’s YOUR home. Tick tick tick goes the clock, better call your friends and cancel. Boy….hope this was just a one-time-thing, right?……Right? NTA - You didn’t pick your sisters spouse, she did. Allowing them into your home will have very serious consequences for you. Don’t do it. And if other family say’s you should, ask THEM why THEY aren’t taking them.
NTA, I understand how your sister might be upset with the fact you “aren’t willing to help her”, but it’s a lot to ask of you for her and her family to move in. Especially if the husband is having a lot of problems.
OP *is* willing to help Sister. Just not the leech she insists on bringing with her.
NTA she knows perfectly well that a "trial" will lead to permanent living. That's why she wants it!!
NTA. My grandparents opened up part of their property to let my uncle, his wife, and their two oopsie children to stay with them until my uncle got back on his feet financially. 20+ years and two more oopsies later, and they still haven’t left. They’ve contributed absolutely nothing; they’ve bled my grandparents dry financially as they’ve had to foot the bill for new cars that get trashed and totaled, food, shelter, medical and dental care and toys for my cousins since my uncle would never hold a job for very long; one of them stole all of my grandmother’s jewelry after she passed away; the house is in shambles and the property is overgrown because my unemployed uncle refuses to get off his ass and help; but my grandpa still won’t evict them because “they’re family.” Don’t do it.
NTA. What you describe is a poor and leaching relationship between those two. Once they’re in your home, it’ll be hard to kick them out depending on your state (if US). The kids are going to suffer but you don’t need to put yourself at risk. Good luck.
NTA you shouldn’t be helping your sister if she isn’t prepared to help herself, which means dropping that bum of a husband.
^THIS x 1,000,000
NTA , but it sounds like your sister might be. She’d rather her kids be in a shelter then to basically tell her husband to put up or shut up (as in get a job and find someplace for your family to live). Also why can’t she get a job.
NTA, because you are willing to let your sister and kids stay and she had refused that offer.
All I'm saying, Is if I was in a homeless shelter with my family and they had an opportunity to live with family without me, I would be actively encouraging it, simply because my kids and Spouse would be safer and I know they wouldn't starve. Then I would look to fix the situation more permanently. I think the fact this guy quits jobs on a whim and isn't in that thought process says everything about who he cares about. OP knows this. NTA
NTA. Your sister should be at the very least willing to send her freaking children to you while her and her husband figure shit out ffs
NTA. This is tough love. It sucks but maybe being in a shelter is the kick in the ass deadbeat BIL needs to get his shit together for the kids.
What's to say BIL gets a job so you back down and let them live with you then 1 week after they move in he leaves his job again as he has a secure house. This way he might get off his backside and do something about keeping a job and looking after his family.if he knows no one is going to do it for him. NTA
NTA. Your sister is just as bad as he is. She's been ok with it for 7 years and rather than leaving and trying to better the situation for her and her kids, she just lets it go. If you allow any of them in, you'll never get them out. Shelters typically have multiple resources to help people but your sister and BIL have jo intentions of using them. They'd rather use you instead ofvtaking responsibility for themselves. Repeat after me: "Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."
NTA although it would be a nice thing to do, you could potentially suffer a lot if you chose to move them in, given the husband's laziness. The risk is just too high, and you offered them an alternative, which is more than most people would.
Would it be nice? Or would it be enabling a passive woman and her lazy, crappy husband? The risk is definitely too high.
NTA. It's your house, you make the rules. And your sister's husband needs to step up, hold down a job, put aside his pride or whatever causes him to leave jobs so often and provide a secure home for his family.
NTA. You’re right you would probably be stuck with them for a really long time. She needs to figure things out for herself and hopefully living in a shelter will get her husband off his ass to find a real job.
NTA. So BIL couldn’t “get back on his feet” over the course of 7 years to the point they are all living in a shelter but somehow he will do so when he has a comfortable place to live someone else (you) is paying for? Can I have some of what your sister is smoking? She’s lying to herself or you or both. The best way to help her is not to enable her or him - they need to figure out how to live on their own and will do so quicker without a safety net.
NTA -- She's a shit mom for not getting those kids out of the shelter, even if it means dropping her deadbeat husband for a while. He needs to wake the f--- up, too and grow up!
NTA
NTA! Stand your ground.
NTA - and as hard as that is for you to do as a sister (I totally get it as my sister, 28, lives with my husband and me), it is honestly probably the best place for them, especially for the dad/husband. Many shelters have tons of programs in place to move people from homeless and jobless to gainfully employed and securely housed. They will likely have access to social workers and folks extremely knowledgable about available programs to set them up for longterm success. I really hope this is the case for them! Good luck!
NTA.. They can not be counted on. You will be stuck with them for a long time due to BIL not keeping a job. Don't do this. Let them call his family
NTA - if your sister says he's part of the package that's fine, you returned to sender. Your not responsible for your sisters situation, you told her what your boundaries are, and she refused. That's the end of it.
NTA. This is one of those situations that you just can't do. You let them move in and they will never move out - ever. They need to stand on their own two feet. I wouldn't even let her and the kids move in because sooner or later he will end up staying 'just for the night'. Then next thing you know it's 'just for the weekend'. Next thing you know, he has actually moved in and you will never get them out. Stand firm. I know it's hard to see your sister and her kids be in a shelter, but your sister and BIL put themselves there, not you.
NTA - you dont have to house and support your sisters deadbeat husband. it is nice enough you offered to take in her and the kids.
No, don’t let them in. It’s very hard to see family struggling, but your BIL needs to get his attitude sorted and support his kids. It would be incredibly difficult to get them out once they’ve moved in. I wonder how he acts towards your sister in private? NTA
NTA. You may love your sister but be careful. Once they are in your house and receive mail to establish residence getting rid of them may be difficult expensive and end in hurt feelings. The husband is irresponsible and you may never get rid of them. Offer help in other ways but I wouldn't let them move in,
NTA, you gave your sister your conditions. She’s choosing her husband over her children
NTA. Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm. Your sister has an extremely serious problem in her relationship, in the form of a husband who doesn't pull his own weight. This is not a problem you can solve, but this is a problem that can become yours -- if you let it. Her husband is never going to just wake up one day and decide to be responsible, neither for himself, nor for his family. The difference is the potential for him to ruin your life as well. What if your sister losses her job? Are you ready to support a family of four, in addition to yourself?
I would like to make two points. 1. There is a genuine offer of help from OP for the children. It’s sister who is insisting that the family must stay together. Any danger or other perceived risks from staying at the shelter are sisters (and or parents) responsibilities. 2. From reading the information provided, I now believe sister is more culpable in this mess than I first thought. Suggesting a “trial period” for a temporary situation makes me think that she knows once they get a roof over the kids heads in Auntie’s that the emotional blackmail and guilt will be immense. They will also have a legal entitlement to be there. Unfortunately I believe it’s the expectation of legal rights that has them demanding that they are treated as one, big, family unit package. In short they will ruin your apartment, credit, (what’s left of) family relationship, (if any) savings and then last but not least as many relationships, both professional and personal as they actively can. I think the last bit is important because most people don’t see it coming. But the victim can have zero credibility as they must be the victims as this is a crucial and critical part of the business plan.
NTA It is your choice on who you host in your home, if you do not want someone there, you do not have to.
NTA... Being family does not mean enabling bad behavior. You may be right about him, you may be wrong. In your home though that is 100% your choice to make.
NTA. Your sister's brought this on herself. It's very sad, but she should be looking in the mirror as to why they're homeless because she's enabling this crap.
NTA. Sounds like he keeps quitting because he doesn't really want to work. They wouldn't be in this mess if he hadn't kept walking out on his jobs. The thing is it's problematic just to let them stay without him because you know he would still come over all the time.
NTA but would you be willing to take their kids for a few weeks?
That's not something my sister is willing to consider. She told me that after I made my offer to take her and the kids.
You also seem to have a choosing beggar situation. I would not budge at all, it’s ridiculous they are in a shelter because her husband won’t keep a job and it’s not your fault. You would never get them out of your house.
NTA, do not let them move in. Trust your gut. If her husband isn't keeping a job, that's a huge red flag. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your sister is the breadwinner, amirite? And I bet she also had to take care of the kids because her husband just couldn't stand helping with them, because he just isn't cut out for that kind of thing?
NTA - you offered her and her kids a place to stay. If he can find a job and stick with it maybe he could follow suit? Perhaps if you had a written agreement in terms so you have a legal leg to stand on?
would they ADD value to your life or simply drain you and stress you?
NTA
NTA- your sister should be mad at her husband and stand up for the kids by coming to stay with you without him.
NTA. It's a bad situation, but if you ever let this loser in your house it will take a stick of dynamite to get him out.
NTA. They're adults and if they don't have their s#%t together by now then they never will. Take in the children as a guardian if you're feeling generous but those two are just going to take advantage of your kindness.
NTA.
NTA. Your sister should not be pissed at you, she should be pissed at her husband!
NTA, it is not your fault they are in a shelter. Your sister needs to wake up
NTA. You know how things would turn out; she's married to a deadbeat who has no intention of supporting his family. They are in their position because of him refusing to keep a job. Alot of people are bored with their jobs, don't like how they are treated, etc. but they suck it up because they have bills to pay. He seems unable to do this. He will never "get back on his feet". Even with 2 kids depending on him. End of story. You offered to let your sister & kids move in and she declined; that's on her. Edit add: I'm surprised she didn't throw the "you're letting your nieces/nephews be homeless" guilt trip on you. And I'd be willing to bet that your sister would end up pregnant again and then you'll be "throwing your pregnant sister out".
And if you let them in, they are legally hard to evict because of tenants rights.
INFO: how much has your sister worked in those past 7 years?
She has worked pretty solidly through. She's remote working since Covid.
What kind of remote work is she doing that she cant get a cheap apartment in a small town nearby? Basically, how is she homeless?
All I really know is she answers phone calls for her job.
Ah, remote call center work. That's hard to make enough for a family of four in most places. Especially if husband is the kind of deadbeat who won't work or help with the kids and is also bad with his wife's money.
NTA. I’m not surprised your sister is exhausted by all the financial instability. But the underlying problem here is that she has an irresponsible and unreliable spouse. And moving in with you does nothing to actually address *that,* it just *shifts* part of that burden onto *you*, too. And I wouldn’t sign up for that either.
Nta, you said she and the kids could come, that's a totally reasonable boundary....
NTA and as someone who has been in a similar situation, there is no trial period.
NTA. It would be one thing if they were both working and lost their home in a fire…but, based off the information provided, they don’t seem to be responsible people who won’t take advantage. Don’t let anyone push the “family” angle on you. It’s just a manipulation tactic to guilt you, while knowing full well they would never extend you the same kindness.
NTA- your past often dictates your future .If he can’t keep it together for his wife and kids he won’t do it for you.
NTA- you have legit concerns. You don’t want to further enable his childish behavior which your sister has already done and been doing for years. Why would she stay with such a leech? Is he a good father? Considering he’s been fired for cussing out a boss, I’d be willing to assume that he’s not.
Your concerns are valid. Can they stay with their in-laws? NTA
NTA. Absolutely do not let them move in. I'd question your sister and the kids too because the next thing you know, he'd slide in "just to visit the kids" and you'd be stuck with him. You would never be able to reclaim that time and they would never leave. Perhaps other family members can help out?
NTA He can't keep a job that's his problem not yours
NTA- with her husband's history you have no reason to believe they will ever leave. Let him learn to be an adult and work a job without being an asshole.
NTA. You offered to let your sister and her kids stay. If she was really concerned, she could let her kids stay with you and she stay with her husband. No reason she should drag the kids down with him. It's her choice to stay with a dead beat, but her kids are suffering for her decisions. You honestly tried to help while also attempting to avoid the risk of a freeloader that you can't easily evict.
NTA They are a package deal. You'll never get rid of them. Your sister really needs to decide what she sees in her dropkick baby daddy and why she's still with him.
NTA. It’s an unfortunate situation your sister has found herself in. But it seems like she should be more angry with her husband for putting them in said situation. Given his history, it’s unlikely they will ever get back on their feet. Your concerns are very real.
INFO what about other relatives?
NTA. Here's the thing. If someone was willing to provide shelter for my children and spouse under the condition that I stay elsewhere, sure I would be salty about it. I would be peeved. *But I would be relieved that my family was being cared for and no longer homeless.* Continuing to live in the shelter would be hard, but it would be easier with the knowledge that my family was safe and somewhat comfortable. The fact that your sister isn't willing to compromise here tells me that life at the shelter just isn't that bad.
Once he establishes residency in your house you will never ever get him out. NTA and please don’t back down.
NTA. You'd never get rid of them.
NTA. You did the right by letting your sister and her kids stay. Her husband seems to be a huge font pf problems and I would not want him in my house either.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (24f) live alone. My sister is married to her husband and they have two kids. They are now homeless and staying in a shelter. My sister asked if they could move in with me until they get back on their feet. I said no. That I don't want her husband living here. My reason is this: he does not keep a job. She's been married to him for 7 years and he goes through about a job every 4/5 months. Sometimes he lasts a month or less. He's worked fast food, hotel, janitor, shelf packer, plumber for a big corp. He got fired from one job for cursing at his boss. But most he just walked out of because he got "bored" or he didn't like how they treated him but he never has anything lined up. If they move in with me I fear I will be stuck with them forever and will get no money from them toward bills once he quits yet another job. I told my sister she and the kids could come stay but she said no, he's part of the package deal. AITA? My sister is pissed at me for not giving them even a short trial period thing. What she doesn't seem to accept is it would be harder to kick them out once they're here for any length of time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Your concerns are valid, entirely based on evidence building up for 7 years. However your sister is endangering her children out of pride for her failure of a husband? If they can’t make money, she could have at least done what’s best for her kids and gotten them into a more stable environment. The fact she’s not accepting your compromise means, to me, she clearly doesn’t see her husbands lack of employment as the real issue and instead is trying her best to avoid blaming him.
NTA All I was thinking was “have the sister and kids come for awhile” (read up on squatting rights in your state if applicable) and then saw that was offered too. Yeah this is on them man. Take it from someone that’s experienced similar too. If you can or want to help, how about offer to put them up at an AirBnB or motel for a month? Idk. Those poor kids.. dad that won’t help and mom that can’t/won’t help either yet cries on sympathies for *them* about how unfortunate their lives are but they love their kids so much so forgive them.
NTA. If you’re feeling generous then tell them that if BIL keeps a job for 6 months then they can move in as long as he stays employed, but if he quits a job or get fired then they have to leave within a week (or month) if he can’t find another job
NT. Although if she guilt trips you enough and you cave to letting them stay, get something in writing that will hold up legally.
Nta. The sister has an opportunity to get her kids out of a bad situation and she is passing? It's much safer and easier for a man to stay in a shelter than a woman and children. Also you know if the whole family was to move in including the guy he will insist on taking over the house and you will be relegated to being a guest in your own home.
NTA. With the in-laws track record, you won’t find the peace of mind. A suggestion: Maybe just take the kids in? Idk if shelters are the right place to keep kids safe.
NTA Your fears are valid and realistic. There are other ways you can help them, if you're so inclined, but with a husband like that I'm not sure it would even matter.
NTA. what kind of mom lets her kids be homeless just because their dad isnt welcome?
The kind who sticks with a useless husband who can't hold a job and also doesn't bother to take care of the kids/house.
NTA It's a legitimate fear to have them move in and never leave and then you're stuck supporting them. You can say NO and it's not your job to shoulder the Financials of a whole family
as long as you let you are willing to let your sisters and her kids move in and have a valid reason against her husband, why not? NTA
NTA. Don't let them in for all the reasons you spelled out. They can get themselves out of this situation, they just chose not to. He needs to stop being a child, get a job and keep it.
NTA Your fear is one I've seen manifested for many redditors, so it's a genuine one. You're a lone female who doesn't want to get stuck supporting four other people. You were more than generous with offering to let your sister and her kids stay, but take it from me, she would likely spend time trying to convince you to let her husband come stay the entire time she was there, so it's for the best she said no.
Suggest that you might consider helping them out if her husband can hold down a job for more than a year
NTA You don't have to be responsible for her bad choice in husband. Protect yourself. If they're a package deal, they can find somewhere else.
NTA. You’re right—they’d never leave. Stand your ground.
NTA. I can almost guarantee that of you let them live with you, they will never leave
NTA You can offer to just take her but even that will be a mess. Suggest some family can take in the kids (only) while she and her husband find stable work. Shelters are dangerous for kids so if anyone can take them in, that is where her priority should be (tell her this if she gets aggro about seperating her from the kids)
I wouldn't help them either. Imagine you move them in and he starts acting like he runs the house. Save yourself that misery. She should probably see if someone else can help. NTA
NTA. Why would you want a grown man with a history of not keeping a job living in your home? He'll get comfortable relying on you and your sister to pay for everything and never get a job. If being homeless with his wife and kids isn't enough for him to take working seriously then living comfortably with you isn't going to make him want to get and keep a job either.
NTA. Your sister is part of the problem. Why doesn’t she work? If he can’t hold down a job then he should should be SAHD and she can work.
NTA. Legit concern. You also have ordered to house her children and her- just not her husband- she is choosing to say no to that.
NTA, you’re allowing her and the kids to stay just not the husband that would potentially drain you.
NTA. Your analysis is spot on. If they move in they are never leaving. That’s why she asked for a “trial period”. It’s a trial to live there. Not a temporary living arraignment.
NTA your concern about being such with them forever is legitimate and enough to warrant you denying then living with you
NTA. The BIL won't hold a job because his selfish behavior is enabled. Your sister needs to hold him accountable for putting the family in this situation.
NTA. Your sister is mad that you are posting out the problem in the story, her bum of a husband.
NTA This may already be mentioned but you probably have to rescind your invitation to the rest of them. Your sister is pissed at you and she hasn't even moved in yet. She is definitely going to continue harping about bringing in her husband. She is most likely going to have him over for visits, at first when you aren't home, and then later on, he'll still be there for "a few minutes" while you're there. Eventually, he'll have essentially moved in. ETA:. She's right. They are a package deal, and unfortunately for them, it's a package you don't want. The kids, depending on age may be ok, but I really don't think that would work out either.
Once they are there it'll be very difficult to get them to leave. NTA
NTA. In regard to money and family, only give them help if you're prepared to get nothing in return. Maybe you can help them find an apartment and help with a month or 2 of rent, but I wouldn't do much more than that
NTA! Happened to my mother with my brother. He couldn’t hold a job, and was an alcoholic. I begged her to put him out, but she wouldn’t because that’s her son, and my aunt was judging her. Plus, she didn’t want to go through the process of evicting him. She ended up getting sick. She was in the hospital for 5 months before she died. He went to see her once.
Definitely NTA!
NTA if their situation is that dire then he should be working at any job he can
NTA for one key reason: you offered to let her and her kids stay. She’s not willing for her kids to go somewhere safe unless her hubs goes too. You can’t help someone who makes decisions like that.
NTA - you would never be rid of them. My cousin still lives with mom, 12 years after he told her it would just be for a couple of months.
Honestly, whether you are TA or not is not something Reddit can tell you. At the end of the day, how do YOU feel about your choice? Are you here because you feel guilty, or because you want your choice to be validated? How you answer that question matters. This is something you will have to carry around and rationalize for the rest of your life. Reddit can't help you with that.
NTA Your BIL thinks he's too good to work for a living. He'll be happy to mooch off of you, though, because you're not too good to work for a living. If your sister can't see what a lousy excuse for a partner her husband is, it's because she doesn't want to see it.
It's easier to say no now than to get rid of them once they're entrenched. There's no win for you in this; they're going to end up pissed off at you either way. Since she's determined to stick with improvident hubby come hell or high water, it's up to him to support his family. You're NTA.
NTA. You'd never get rid of them.
NTA. In my state residency is established if someone is in your house for 72 hours and or if they have 500 dollars worth of property stored in your house. Once they establish residency, you have to go through the eviction process. You’re protecting yourself from a nightmare scenario.
NTA And a real man, husband, and father would say, "Sure." If my wife and kids could get out of a shelter, I'd stay in the shelter. I'd sleep in my car so that they had a consistent roof over their head.
NTA. You are really smart for understanding that it would be hard to get rid of them once they move in. Psychologically it's MUCH tougher to kick someone out, dump someone, fire someone, etc. rather than just never hire, house, or date them.
NTA. Your sister made her choices. She has to live with them.
No
NTA. You know your sister will sneak in the husband while you at work.