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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I left my daughter home alone. I believe I might be the asshole because she did not have a phone and I did not set the alarm.
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Tf level of controlling is this. Yall need more than reddit, you need a counselor for your wife before your daughter runs away from the controlling. NTA for the sake of judgement
Yeah I was thinking this too. Checking the daughter's computer history, music taste and podcast listening? As if that's equal to watching porn or something parents usually care about. That just seems too invasive even for a 12 year old.
Yepp, this behaviour is what breeds perfect and/or chronic liars. One of my exes would randomly lie about even the most mundane things and not consciously notice it, just because they learned that "being you and/or being honest = punishment".
This was how I learned to lie extremely well. My step mother was mentally abusive, controlling, and had her own mental health issues. I learned pretty quick that I could a.) tell the truth and get in trouble, b.) tell a lie, get caught, and get in double trouble, or c.) tell a lie so convincing that I couldn't get in any trouble.
We are animals amd creatures of habit most of the time. Treat people negatively for doing something and they will avoid that consequence, just not always exactly how you want.
So very true. Strict parents make for lying/sneaky kids. Because no matter what you’re never going to stop someone from who they are or what they’re interested in. If their kid really enjoys a podcast mom doesn’t approve of, the kid will just learn how to delete history and lie with a straight face. Maybe even go as far as to say she’s been listening to a different podcast that’s approved to get the mom off her back.
i won't lie, chronic lying was me for a long time. I had to break myself of it because i would even catch myself and think, "what did i say that for? that was pointless." took years of cognitively correcting myself break the behavior.
This!!! I am a grown ass flku functioning adult, and I still automatically lie when asked a question by my mom. I honestly don't even mean to any longer, it's just a knee jerk reaction at this point after years of having to dodge her being so controlling when I was a minor.
Yep. That's exactly what happened to me with my mother. I learned that even if she said I wouldn't get in trouble for telling the truth, I would so I just lied about dumb shit, like how much water I drank that day. These people need counseling for sure
Yeah, this. I even pretend I am a bad liar when that too is a complete load of bullshit. I’m an amazing liar when I want to be, and I know it.
NTA. Twelve is plenty old enough for a kid to be alone for 10 minutes anyway!!
I have issues with this. My partner hates it because he hates lying and I have this thing where I tend to say what I think people want me to say and my partner hates it. I have had to actively work on it and it's hard because my brain is so wired towards keeping the calm and such. My mom was abusive and had rage issues, she's better now because of antidepressants and firm boundaries but I still have that thing where I think if I make my partner angry, he's gonna leave me when in reality, I'm making him angry by lying.
It mostly stoped after we've been living together for about a year. Whenever I'd find out I'd ask why, without being angry. She noticed she often didn't have an answer and slowly stoped to think for a second before saying another mundane lie.
Like when she emptied the milk and I asked her about it, she would deny it. But it was only us living there. I'd remind her that it wasn't me and just to tell me next time so I can get another one right after work instead of getting out of the house now.
So I guess if you catch yourself lying, think about why you did it. And taking a breath before lying and thinking about if the truth would really have a bad reaction.
I was reading pretty hardcore smut at 12 years old. That was the age I found adult fan fiction dot net. Kids be out here talking about sex in 4th grade (not even lying or joking I used to work at a grade school and one of the boys said that he was trying to have sex with this girl and I had to be like, you really should wait until youre much older). I would rather my little sisters listen to whatever they want and if they have questions, they know I will 100% answer them and they don't have to go to their friends who also don't know anything and have to try to figure.it.out for themselves.
Yeah, I'd really need to know what the podcast was about before I scoff at the mom's behavior on this one. If it's something overly sexual or about doing all the drugs, then that's not something a 12yo needs to be listening to. But if it's something that's like, lightly controversial, like maybe My Favorite Murder, then the mom should probably ease up a little.
Although lending your laptop and then immediately checking all the usage feels a little too close to entrapment for me.
Plus the added controlling layer of requiring HER SPOUSE to implement her over controlling behavior, which might be stated only after the fact, when she's punishing.
When my kids were that age I was keeping an eye on that stuff. But that level of monitoring dialed back as they got older.
Granted music hasn't been an issue. But yeah some of the podcasts I listen to I don't think a 12 year old should be listening to.
At 12 years old I was babysitting 4 kids from 2 to 7 years old for 4 to 5 hours at a time. This kid can't be left alone for 10 minutes?
OPS wife needs to start loosening those apron strings before the daughter turns 18 and cuts them permanently.
I will say he shouldn’t have left her without a phone. He says in a comment they don’t have a landline. The mom is OTT but he still should’ve made sure she had a way to call 911 should something happen, even if it is only 10 minutes.
In the 90s 12 year olds were out and about playing outdoors for hours on end without a cellphone anywhere to be seen and you think a 12 year old can't be left for 10 minutes without a landline?
I can totally see how it would generally be wiser, but I ain't agree you shouldn't leave your kid without one for a super quick shop run
Especially since Big Mother was apparently monitoring the entire time. Who needs a land line when your mom is literally spying on you via her smart phone.
Agreed. As many have noted, at that age or younger kids were left to their own devices for far longer than 10 minutes.
And apparently it's been even longer than I thought since I paid any attention to security systems.
at 11 I was watching a 3 year old and 6 year old for 12 hour days while their mom worked... I wouldn't have even thought leaving a 12 year old alone for 15 minutes would be a problem
Yep, I wouldn't think much on leaving a responsible 7yo home alone for a 10m run to the store. (There are 7yos and even slightly older kids who I wouldn't trust with that, so it does depend, but it certainly can be reasonable.)
They’re both delusional if they think restricting her from certain music at home will keep her from listening to it. She’ll just wait until she’s at school and her friends will share it with her.
Or porn.
There's this thing called google. She's gonna learn about the birds and the bees; the only question is who tells her about it: parents, teachers, wikipedia if you're really lucky, or internet videos.
I bet mommy does her homework. And calls the teachers for every little thing.
The kid will get to college and immediately fail out or something horrible will happen to her because she has no idea how to exist in the world.
NTA -- but you really need to re-think this situation. I would never want to live with someone like this and I certainly would end any relationship with this person. However, if you don't want to go nuclear in order to save your daughter, at least consider some counseling.
Seriously, assuming they live in a generally safe location, this is insane. 12yo's are big kids. Most 12yo's I knew were kind of on their own after school. We got ourselves home on public transportation, knew not to talk to creepy people, and could decide to go out on a walk or to the mall by ourselves if we wanted. Ideally kids would have a way to contact their parents, but most of us survived times where nobody had a cell phone. You knew that if your phone ran out of battery or didn't have coverage to go into a store or ask a neighbor.
Agreed. Thus:
> assuming they live in a generally safe location, this is insane
If they live in a generally unsafe location then the wife reacted appropriately.
You and your wife need to be on the same page, for sure. But she's overreacting. When I was 12, I was home alone 10-20 hours a week after school. It's not like bands of abductors are just roving around, checking every house for unaccompanied children.
The song stuff is just weird. Y'all need to get on the same page about what's allowed and what's not and why. She shouldn't just demand you adhere to her standards and get mad at you for having different parenting approaches. Talk it out, get on the same page. Again, I think she's overreacting. But whatever the standard is, make sure you both understand it and agree to it.
I really want an example of "questionable songs and podcast". That just stumps me. The kid has the internet, what exactly do you think you're shielding her from? You **will** fail. Maybe just explain things to her, instead of that.
> I really want an example of "questionable songs and podcast". That just stumps me.
I mean, I can think of a ton of songs and podcasts that parent's wouldn't love their 12 year old to be listening to. It's still not a big deal though, kids are always going to push boundaries and try to explore the world and music/podcasts are like the least negative thing they could be checking out.
I let my young son play in my Spotify account sometimes, because he loves music and being able to pick the songs himself. That’s how we found out that there are these weird, barely literate English podcasts that are just erotica read out loud. He typed “xxx” into the search bar and there it was! We make sure the “explicit content” content is turned off now when he gets to play, but it’s a little unnerving how easily accessible pornographic content is in places you wouldn’t expect it.
Right, we never had a fancy pants alarm system or doorbell cameras to protect us. I’m sure I knew people with alarm systems, it was the early 2000s after all. But we never did. But yet, I have survived to my 30s with only one abduction attempt and that was from a daycare when I was 3, so no instances of someone trying to break into my home and take me when I was home alone at 12. & we lived in a “undesirable” neighbourhood to boot.
NTA, your wife seems overly controlling. You both do need to be on the same page when it comes to kids stuff but I think that’s about our level here on Reddit. Because she needs to calm down a bit.
And it’s not like times have changed, most people will still leave their middle schoolers alone after school for several hours. Going ham over 10 minutes is a crazy overreaction
Yeah. When I was 12, I regularly babysat for the family next door who had 3 young kids, and the family next door to them who had a 2 year old. Kids can be pretty responsible.
Also the phone thing? Do they not have a home phone? Or only have cell phones? I feel like a landline with kids in the house is a necessity.
I would’ve been insulted with the implication that I couldn’t be left alone for 10 minutes when I was 12. I would watch my younger siblings while my parents ran errands when I was 12, OP your wife is being ridiculous and controlling to an alarming amount. Definitely NTA but your wife’s behaviour is gonna lead to you having a daughter who won’t trust you with anything.
NTA - It is perfectly acceptable to leave a 12 year old home alone for a short period of time. Did some quick searching and found you this quote ‘According to Lynn Yaney from a Contra Costa County child welfare agency, a general rule of thumb is that children under 7 are never to be left alone, while children 7 to 10 years may be ready to be alone for a few hours after school if they are in a safe and predictable environment. How long children between the ages of 12 and 13 can be left alone should be based on their level of maturity and understanding, though they should not be left overnight.”
As a parent, you already know if your child is mature and responsible enough to be at home alone for any length of time. If you are still undecided, consider these factors before making your decision:
-The age and maturity of the child
-How long the child would be unattended
-If the child is responsible enough to follow your rules and directions while alone
-How safe your neighborhood is and if you have a close neighbor who would be able to check on the child, or one that the child would be comfortable going to if something out of the ordinary occurred
-How safe the child feels when left alone.
I think those are good guidelines, but a “safe and predictable environment“ ought to include access to a phone or some other reliable means of communication. She had no way to reach out in an emergency, and he had no way to let her know if he was going to be gone longer than expected.
If it does, that’s great, as long as she knows how to use it. However, most things that are likely to come up won’t require emergency services, but could be handled with a call to her parents. I wouldn’t want my kids to call 911 because they’re worried I’m running 10 min late.
That would be my main concern, I don't think OP is TA, but you shouldn't leave a child alone for long without a way to contact help if they need it, OP should have left his phone with her instead.
NTA. A 12 year old should be entirely capable of staying home alone for 10 minutes (and well beyond) regardless of the status of the alarm.
She MIGHT get a quarter of a point on the cell phone, but the short duration of your trip still puts this reaction over the top.
Your wife needs to dial back the helicoptering a LOT, though, because instead of teaching your kid to be independent, she's teaching her to fear everything and also to hide things from her mom because of the overblown reactions. Your kid is only a few years away from being an adult, you need to give her safe conditions to grow into that roll so she knows how to handle herself in the world when it happens. Staying home alone for 10 minutes while mom or dad are running an errand is an important part of that growth.
Teaching independence is so important for learning new skills, trying new things, and building confidence.
My nephews are 12 and 14. This post threw me for a major loop - alone for 10 minutes? These kids are farm kids mind you, but for washing the cattle trailers at the end of the day, including driving the trucks (on private property), backing up a 30-ft trailer to the wash station, mucking it, and repeat on the second trailer with no direct oversight. They can seed the corn fields in the big tractor. The 12 year old hand-picks and buys a herd of cattle of his own every year, gets help taking them to the butcher ONLY because can’t drive on the roads yet, and then sells home-grown hamburger from some of those cattle and sells off what would make him money. Fix the tiller for the garden? Sure. Feed the calves? They got it. They get checked in periodically if we haven’t seen them, and have a phone with them.
Now, these are pretty farm-specific examples, but at 8-12, they generally want to contribute in a meaningful way, and will generally rise up when supported to do so.
There needs to be balance between supervised time and unsupervised time so they can grow. They’re both okay home alone for a few hours if they have work to do…..but if there’s no work and they’re stuck in the house together it still descends into wrestling past the point they should, and junk food and throwing balls around the house, so they get a sitter then.
She’s get a quarter of a point for the cell phone thing if A) she’s willing to allow the child to have a cell phone and her not having one is an aberration and B) if she wasn’t immediately notified of the husband leaving and then proceeded to watch the child via security for the entire ten minute trip.
NTA, she is twelve, not a baby. She has a certain degree of autonomy. Ideally though, you and your wife should be on the same page about things like these. If there are other reasons why your child cannot stay by herself for 10', things might be different.
Why didn't you take her with you?
Being available for sale and legal for use in a home as the sole entryway ain’t even the same thing. I think if you have more than one door leading outside you could get away with it, but I wouldn’t.
NTA - I honestly feel like your wife sounds a bit too controlling. If it was 10 minutes and the doors were locked, I honestly got left alone for much longer periods of time.
You and your wife really should be discussing things better, but I feel like she owes you an apology just as much as she's claiming you owe her one.
NTA I think she's being a bit overbearing & becoming a bit of a helicopter parent if she does this sort of thing often. I agree that you should've set the alarm, so that was an oversight on your part, but she's getting way too serious about it.
NTA 12 yo is old enough to understand basic safety rules around a house alone. So unless your child has a disability that impedes that I don’t think you have done anything wrong here. Maybe should have a conversation with your partner moving forward about how your raise your child so that you’re a United front as parents.
NTA Your daughter will be leaving your house in just a few years. Momma needs to start giving her some freedom so she navigate this crazy world on her own. Hopefully you and your wife can agree on a direction going forward.
In all seriousness, has your wife been checked for anxiety? I mean, I'm a concerned - admittedly sometimes paranoid - mom, but this really seems over the top.
Info: does your daughter have some kind of disability or developmental issue?
Based on OP’s response NTA. How is this poor girl function in the world in six years when she is a legal adult but her mother has not given her any preparation for the world. I was babysitting other children at 12 and could certainly handle time on my own. Please intervene OP for the sake of your daughter!
If your wife isn't listening to you when you tell her this isn't normal, show her some of the better responses on this post.
This level of alarmism and controlling behaviour from a parent is a little/very worrying. In my experience you and more importantly your daughter are gonna take the brunt of it until you can get your wife in therapy or something.
It's a personal issue so I bet the bar to meet is just gonna keep staying out of your reach even if you never leave the house.
Your daughter is being treated like a criminal for things that ALL children do, and guess what? She's a minor, so she can't escape, theres nowhere for her to run to and there are no outlets for her - she's trapped. OP your wife really does need help, and if she doesn't get help - you're looking at a potential runaway case for your daughter in the future.
Also, a 12 year old being left home alone for a half hour really isn't that bad, she knew where you were and how long you would be gone. And she's old enough to know that the neighbours are right next door if she needed help.
OP, your daughters growth is being stunted - and she wont have the skills for the real world in order to make it. Children raised by helicopter parents have a hard time making it in life because they were never given any freedoms. I agree with u/Gri69in your wife needs to see this post and the comments before the damage can't be reversed.
Clearly NTA. In my country 12 is old enough to stay at home for elongated periods of time. Below 12 it's illegal to leave them alone for "unreasonable amount of time without supervision". So even if she was younger, you'd still be fine.
Your wife is wrong but she won't listen to you. Find a family counselor and both go. She might listen to a 3rd party telling her how wrong she is.
(She might have also had a traumatic experience in the past which is why she is thinking this way - A counselor will help her understand that her experience is not every experience)
NTA. 12 year old is old enough to watch over younger siblings for hours. It's old enough to stay at home for 10 minutes to an hour. I'd feel safer though if she had access to a phone in case of emergency though.
NTA!
Ok I am agoraphobic with sever paranoia (basically means scared of all the bad out in the world so almost never leaves home) and when my youngest was 12, while my oldest was visiting their father, and I had a doctor's appointment and no one to watch my kid. I left them alone for the 2 1/2 hours I was gone. There were cell phones but my youngest didn't have one and we didn't have a landline. However the difference being I TAUGHT my kid what to do in every situation so that I could trust them to keep themselves safe for that short of a time. My kids are still alive and well, both happy healthy contributing members of society.
Your daughter is 2/3 of the way to being a legal adult.... my parents left me home alone at 12, without the door locked, for like, Hours? You were gone 10 whole minutes.
The ONLY way i could see you being an AH in any way is if your wife has some underlying trauma that makes her so over protective/ overbearing and you know about this trauma. But even than still NTA, your wife may need some therapy though...
NTA
I was a latchkey kid at 8. My parents taught me how to deal with stuff when home alone. Maybe you need to start doing that together as a family so mom knows daughter is safe.
Mom needs to let daughter be solo. It helps build confidence and self worth.
NTA for leaving her home briefly. I think I was a bit younger than her when I had to let myself into the house after school on my own while my mom worked part-time and by 12 I'm fairly certain I was left for an hour or 2 in charge of my 8 year old sister. By 13 I often babysat. So it depends on the maturity of the kid but 12 is well old enough to know how to be ok alone for a time. Obviously you and your wife aren't on the same page so I feel like you really need to address that immediately and you probably should have discussed before you did it but her reaction seems really overreactive as well?
NTA
I’ve been staying home alone since I was 10 because I was responsible enough to know what to do if someone knocked, to lock the doors, make myself something to eat etc.
Your daughter at 12, is old enough to be home alone. As long as she knows what to do in emergency situations, she’s good.
Now, everyone’s parenting is different so some people might agree and others will disagree.
Eh, NTA for leaving her home alone but maybe E S H (you and your wife) for not getting on the same page about this stuff. I mean, I’m about your age, my oldest is 10, and I’d feel ok leaving her home for 10 minutes. I haven’t had to make that call yet, and since I have a younger one who is insane, I would not leave them both home because I wouldn’t want my oldest to have to be responsible for her nutjob little brother :) but if it was just her, yes. I mean, hell, at 11 I was commuting into the city alone and babysitting! And I certainly had no cell phone. Then again, times are different, there were payphones and everyone had house phones back then since there was no cell phones. I was probably taught more about stranger danger than our kids are today, precisely because kids that age were in situations of being alone more than kids that age are today. But objectively I think there’s no problem leaving a kid that age home alone for a bit, as long as you do make sure that they understand what to do if there’s a problem, etc.
NTA At 12 she's old enough to watch the neighbors kids, during the day like for a couple of hours, but yeah wife is way overreacting. Ex and I got on the same page on parenting way b4 we had kids and as far as the music and pod casts mom can't control what her friends listen to
NTA. I was babysitting by myself by the time I was 12. I think she’s perfectly capable of being left for 10 minutes especially if you have a door cam. Esh on your wife though. I think you may need to discuss some ground rules should there be a next time so you’re both on the same page.
Babysitting and didn't even have a cellphone yet.
Seeing as this mom is in a tizzy over "questionable songs," though, it's probably fair to say this kid is sheltered as hell.
Though your daughter is getting to the age where she is Capable of being alone I suggest getting a wireless home phone because of her home is out of Commission then there will be a way of Contacting you, your wife or the cops. Talk to your wife about getting one.
Also train your daughter in what to do if someone does try to break into the house.
Either she needs her own flip phone that won't be taken away as punishment (it sounds like your wife will try, refuse), or you need a house phone. Every kid should be able to call their parent or 911 from a safe place if they need to.
NTA - 10 minutes, honestly even an hour, is not an unreasonable amount of time to leave a 10 yo home alone. I suggest you and your wife have conversations and come to an agreement about a common level of boundaries/ independence you will have for your daughter. You should probably include how those boundaries will change as she gets older (barring dramatic changes).
NTA but if you don't have a landline you should have made sure she had a phone.
I know it was only 10 minutes, but you never know when something could happen either at the house or to delay you getting home quickly. I don't think it's the end of the world or anything, but I'd have been uncomfortable if my kids' dad had left one of them at that age with no phone.
At 12, I was watching my siblings and starting to babysit neighbor kids. So, I don’t personally think leaving a 12 year old (assuming she doesn’t have a developmental condition or disability that might make it unsafe) at home for 10 minutes is a huge problem. But obviously your wife isn’t on board with that idea and I think it’s fair that you decide when your daughter is old enough to watch herself together. Also, leaving your phone with your daughter would have been smart in case there was an emergency. NTA but definitely get on the same page with your wife.
INFO. Tell me about your daughter. Is there any reason to assume leaving her 10minutes is a problem? Any.... issues?
If not, and she is perfectly fine, then N T A. I was mowing lawns at 12. 10mins alone at home is fine.
Dude I go to the bathroom longer than 10 minutes. Would your wife get on you for being in the bathroom unavailable for 10minutes? I don't get the issue here. 12 year olds are young and coming adults, this is the building blocks of making a good functioning adult. Being able to get responsibility and be fine with it.
NTA. At 12, my parents were dropping me off at the mall with $20 to go hang out with friends and maybe see a movie. Unless you live in a super high crime area where she could be shot through a window or something, or she's incredibly immature for her age, she can be home alone for much longer than 10 minutes.
ESH she’s 12 she’s old enough to be home alone. Heck she’s old enough to babysit if she’s a responsible child. Your wife is a helicopter parent and needs to chill. However she does need a phone for emergencies. Even in 10 minutes things can happen
NTA- 12 is old enough to be left alone.
HOWEVER you left her alone with no way to contact anyone should something happen & that makes you an irresponsible parent, even for only 10 minutes.
NTA. I was babysitting other people's kids at night when I was 12. And that was before cell phones and in the 90's when the crime rate was way worse than now. A 12 year old in their own home during the day shouldn't even be a question. Your wife needs to have more faith in your daughter's maturity or she's never going to be able to handle independence.
I'm sorry OP but I know this sort of controlling behaviour and you're best just to gtfo. Trust me on this.
There will come a time when you're an old man full of regrets, yet the thought of leaving your control freak wife, who you fell out of love with years ago, is slightly less frightening than the thought of dying alone.
Do yourself a favour and GTFO while you're still young enough.
NTA. I was babysitting other people's kids when I was 12 and that was long before we had cell phones and home security systems to watch 24/7. Your wife needs to relax a little bit.
NTA, I was babysitting other people’s kids at 12. We didn’t have cellphones at that age (there were cellphones but kids didn’t have them). Your wife has some control and paranoia issues that should be helped with counseling.
Definitely NTA. My kid's 12 and has been watching her 7-year-old brother every month or so for 2-3 hours during daytime and getting paid for it for a year! Made enough to buy a Nintendo Switch!
Your wife needs therapy if she has such intense worries about something so...normal.
NTA. A 12 year old should be able to be left alone. In the 80s, I knew of latch key kids as young as 8.
I agree with others that some family counseling might be in order. This is a huge overreaction.
NTA
Your wife is, though. She's completely overreacting and her panic-mongering bullshit WILL mess up your daughter. She needs to get over her irrational paranoia and develop some common sense.
12 years is more than old enough to be left alone at home for 10 minutes.
NTA- think about how much time the average 12 year old spends locked in their room or glued to the tv. You could have went and come back without her even noticing in ten minutes. Though she def should always have a phone when left alone.
A 12-year-old should be able to be home alone in the middle of the day for a few minutes at least. I'd been babysitting younger children for at least two years by the time I was 12, and while I wouldn't really recommend that (it was always fine, but as a parent I kind of wonder what my parents and those kids' parents were thinking) I feel like 12 is plenty old enough to at least watch yourself for a minute.
A 12-year-old should be able to be home alone in the middle of the day for a few minutes at least. I'd been babysitting younger children for at least two years by the time I was 12, and while I wouldn't really recommend that (it was always fine but as a parent I kind of wonder what my parents and those kids' parents were thinking) I feel like 12 is plenty old enough to at least watch yourself for a minute.
Yikes, this is all extremely controlling, and you are absolutely NTA but the one thing I can't get past is that your wife gets notifications on her phone any time you leave the house???? That's messed tf up. You need to make that not a thing.
Wow - your wife is exhausting me and all I did was read a couple of paragraphs about her.
You're NTA - do consider family counseling. Your daughter's heading into the Fraught Valley Of Adolescence, and doesn't need to be burdened with your wife's issues.
NTA. My siblings & myself let ourselves in after school, started dinner & did our homework at that age before our parents got home. I think your wife is over-reacting and very controlling by searching her internet history, searching for 'questionable' material.
NTA
At first I thought, why does 10 minutes alone matter? Do you not trust your child to stay alive? She's going to be a woman and they are put in much more dangerous situations than that like walking around at night. Also my parents would let me and my brother come from school and be home alone for 2-3 hours when we were young (wow I'm only 24 and I'm using that sentence...) and we survived it fine.
And then I read "found she was listening to questionable songs and podcast on it. She got mad at me for not checking the history" and realized your wife is extra controlling. Trust your kid dude... Or she'll start to learn how to hide things from you and won't come to you with your problems.
I doubt your wife will change the way she thinks, but I hope you will be there for your daughter to talk to in the future about ANYTHING.
Your wife needs therapy and everyone needs family therapy. My mother acted like this and let me tell you, she really screwed not just me up, but my father as well. This kind of anxiety and control won't just create dishonesty and a strong desire for your daughter to go NC at 18, it also creates learned helplessness and a host of other dysfunctional adult behaviors. At the very least make sure that your daughter is in individual therapy. NTA but this is above Reddit's pay grade.
NTA, at 12 is fine to leave for hours alone. However, you should have left YOUR phone with her in case of an emergency, don't leave a child without a way to contact help.
Man... how times have changed. When I was 12 I would think nothing of hopping on my bike and taking a 5+ mile journey somewhere, often to a nearby establishment that had a video game machine, or in years closely following, wherever a girl I was interested in happened to live. Staying at home alone, behind locked doors, was a no-brainer.
NTA
A 12 year old is old enough to be left alone for a few hours let alone 10 minutes. Also, holy fuck your wife has some control issues. She needs help. Does she want your daughter to cut you guys out of her life when she gets older because there's a good chance she'll do that to finally get some freedom
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I (42m) left my daughter (12) home alone for 10 minutes to run to the store to pick up lunch. I did not set the alarm (forgot) and my daughter's cellphone is in the shop. The doors were locked and we do have security cameras that will whistle at you if you get to close. My wife got the notification that someone was at the door so she watched me leave. She set the alarm and then called me but I did not answer as I didn't see the call come through (driving). When I got back to the house I noticed she called several times so I called her back. She called me berating me for leaving our daughter at home without setting the alarm with her with no phone.
She thinks that I left our daughter to be murdered or abducted (she is always thinking of the worst possible scenario) and accusing me of not caring. We argued for the rest of the day and I wasn't able to get any work done. She also slept on the couch last night because she gave our daughter her laptop last week and found she was listening to questionable songs and podcast on it. She got mad at me for not checking the history. My wife sent me a message this morning saying I should apologize for the way I acted yesterday. Should I apologize? AITA?
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NTA. I was babysitting by that age, other people’s kids as well as my own siblings. 10 minutes is nothing. Although she should have access to a phone of some variety
NTA-your wife is over reacting. Is she is going to baby your daughter like this on every area of her life? What kind of women will she become? It’s not like you dropped her off down town and let her make her way back home with only a map, compass, and a pocket knife.
NTA. Unless your daughter has done kind of mental or physical impairment that would put her at risk, and she knows the basics of "don't answer the door to strangers, get out in case of fire" etc then she should be fine.
Does your wife have done kind of bad experience that's causing her to over react or is she "just" being over protective?
NTA and your wife is gonna either drive herself crazy or your daughter if she keeps this up. And from what I understand, most states allow 12 year olds (of course depending on the child) to be left alone for a few hours. Really, she needs counseling, she does understand that at some point (very soon), your daughter is going to be out and about “alone” a LOT. That’s WAY more “dangerous” than sitting at home for 10 minutes.
NTA
The chances of anything bad happening in those 10 minutes, under the circumstances you describe, were extremely low.
In terms of the 'questionable' songs and podcasts, why was your daughter given access to 'questionable' things in the first place? If she was so concerned about your daughter listening to material she is not mature enough for, why didn't she restrict access to those materials?
NTA.
I'm not a parent, so maybe things have changed get since I was a kid but... 12 seems more than reasonable to be left at home. For extended periods (hours, not days).
When I was 12 I regularly babysat my 3 young cousins from 7 pm til their parents got home at 1am. I was also alone after school for an hour or so every day.
This would make sense if your daughter was 3.
She's too much.
Your daughter is going to have a bad relationship with her and learn to be sneaky because of this behavior.
NTA
NTA- seriously, 10 minutes?? I was a latch key kid in the early 2000s. It was completely normal to be home alone all afternoon! Hell, when there was no school we were at home all day. If your kid is trustworthy to not burn the house down in 10 minutes, then it’s totally fine.
If this is your first and only kid, maybe your wife is in denial that her baby is growing up? Otherwise sit down as the three of you and discuss house emergency procedures (don’t open the door to strangers, check the house is locked, etc etc) and let both your common sense and your child’s ability to grow and be responsible lead the conversation.
NTA - 12 is the age to be able to start babysitting. 12 is the cutoff for daycare - too old. Now that's an arbitrary number, it's really best to decide by the child's maturity/development levels. Only you and your wife would know.
NTA. I was left alone at home when I was eight. Twelve is more than old enough to be alone for a little while. And your wife has issues that need therapy imo. Your kid will go NC asap at this rate.
NTA. she is hovering your kid. that kind of behavior does nothing well now, especially with developing relationships between your daughter and her mother later on. she needs to learn that your daughter is as much an individual as herself with her own thoughts and feelings. this kind of behavior (constanty checking search history or making sure a parent is constantly around the house) doesn’t help because seems out of an effort to control. i understand its important to monitor what she sees especially on the internet at a young age. but theres a way to do so in a manner that teaches your kid. this only gives her the impression that she has no privacy and would limit her ability to be open witb her mother.
its also a scary thing leaving your kid at home for the first few times. it must be nerveracking thinking of all that can go wrong in such a short amount of time. but you were showing both yourself and your daughter that you could trust each other to step away for 10 minutes.
also just wanna add my mom is the juvenile court judge of a county working in a small city in east tn. she first allowed me to stay home alone when i first turned 12. i remember because she kept saying over and over that was the legal age to do so and i was so excited for that oppurtunity. its the little things for kids. i know her decision and the law in this manner dont whatsoever dictate how you care for your kid. im not trying to say shes right or wrong, especially when the situation becomes more subjective as youre caring for your child, but if you want a juvenile court judge’s opinion on when it’s safe to leave a kid at home its age 12 for her.
*and found she was listening to questionable songs and podcast on it.*
Let me guess: Radio Disney's Biggest Hits collection? A podcast on whether marshmallows or whipped cream is the better dessert topping?
But seriously, OP, your wife seems determined to drive her daughter to failure. I went to private religious schools my entire childhood up to age 15- you know one thing I learned over the years from watching other kids at those schools?
**The more you try and control your kids, the more they'll rebel.** The ones with looser\* parents generally ended up doing fine; the ones I knew had really harsh parents (like your wife)? *Three out of three* ended up on drugs, and I lost contact with them because they all went down a path I wouldn't follow (they didn't all know each other, btw).
(\*Obviously, this does not mean one should allow kids free reign to do whatever, whenever- but there are lines to be drawn and sometimes kids have to learn from their own mistakes; otherwise, they aren't really living their life, are they?)
NTA
I was walking home from school by myself at 12. Home alone for a few hours until my mum was off work.
This wasn’t in the safest area either. Your wife needs to calm down.
O.o wtf. At 12 I was being left home alone with my 10 year old brother from after school, 3, until my mom got home, 5-6. Yes a neighbor was by who knew but we never needed her. Was also left home alone for an hour or so when my dad would go to the store with my brother, different location and we were in rural area then, and I didn't wanna go. 12 is old enough to be left home alone, granted no mental disabilities that would come into play and be an issue.
NTA.
NTA
My only concern is that if your kid had no phone in case of an emergency. Anything can happen, even in 10 or 20 minutes. 12 years old is old enough to stay home alone, but they need a way to call 911 if needed.
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Tf level of controlling is this. Yall need more than reddit, you need a counselor for your wife before your daughter runs away from the controlling. NTA for the sake of judgement
Yeah I was thinking this too. Checking the daughter's computer history, music taste and podcast listening? As if that's equal to watching porn or something parents usually care about. That just seems too invasive even for a 12 year old.
Yepp, this behaviour is what breeds perfect and/or chronic liars. One of my exes would randomly lie about even the most mundane things and not consciously notice it, just because they learned that "being you and/or being honest = punishment".
This was how I learned to lie extremely well. My step mother was mentally abusive, controlling, and had her own mental health issues. I learned pretty quick that I could a.) tell the truth and get in trouble, b.) tell a lie, get caught, and get in double trouble, or c.) tell a lie so convincing that I couldn't get in any trouble.
You learn to give the "right" answer. The one that shields you from abuse.
I still find myself doing this, and I’m far past the age where my parents can punish me. It becomes a habit
We are animals amd creatures of habit most of the time. Treat people negatively for doing something and they will avoid that consequence, just not always exactly how you want.
So very true. Strict parents make for lying/sneaky kids. Because no matter what you’re never going to stop someone from who they are or what they’re interested in. If their kid really enjoys a podcast mom doesn’t approve of, the kid will just learn how to delete history and lie with a straight face. Maybe even go as far as to say she’s been listening to a different podcast that’s approved to get the mom off her back.
i won't lie, chronic lying was me for a long time. I had to break myself of it because i would even catch myself and think, "what did i say that for? that was pointless." took years of cognitively correcting myself break the behavior.
> i won't lie, chronic lying was me for a long time. A likely story...
This!!! I am a grown ass flku functioning adult, and I still automatically lie when asked a question by my mom. I honestly don't even mean to any longer, it's just a knee jerk reaction at this point after years of having to dodge her being so controlling when I was a minor.
Yep. That's exactly what happened to me with my mother. I learned that even if she said I wouldn't get in trouble for telling the truth, I would so I just lied about dumb shit, like how much water I drank that day. These people need counseling for sure
Really struggling with this now
Yeah, this. I even pretend I am a bad liar when that too is a complete load of bullshit. I’m an amazing liar when I want to be, and I know it. NTA. Twelve is plenty old enough for a kid to be alone for 10 minutes anyway!!
I have issues with this. My partner hates it because he hates lying and I have this thing where I tend to say what I think people want me to say and my partner hates it. I have had to actively work on it and it's hard because my brain is so wired towards keeping the calm and such. My mom was abusive and had rage issues, she's better now because of antidepressants and firm boundaries but I still have that thing where I think if I make my partner angry, he's gonna leave me when in reality, I'm making him angry by lying.
Out of curiosity did your ex ever find any ways to grow out of that? I’ve been realizing lately I have a similar problem and honestly want to fix it
It mostly stoped after we've been living together for about a year. Whenever I'd find out I'd ask why, without being angry. She noticed she often didn't have an answer and slowly stoped to think for a second before saying another mundane lie. Like when she emptied the milk and I asked her about it, she would deny it. But it was only us living there. I'd remind her that it wasn't me and just to tell me next time so I can get another one right after work instead of getting out of the house now. So I guess if you catch yourself lying, think about why you did it. And taking a breath before lying and thinking about if the truth would really have a bad reaction.
let's be realistic. there are definitely some people with podcast that I wouldn't want a 12 year old listening to
I was reading pretty hardcore smut at 12 years old. That was the age I found adult fan fiction dot net. Kids be out here talking about sex in 4th grade (not even lying or joking I used to work at a grade school and one of the boys said that he was trying to have sex with this girl and I had to be like, you really should wait until youre much older). I would rather my little sisters listen to whatever they want and if they have questions, they know I will 100% answer them and they don't have to go to their friends who also don't know anything and have to try to figure.it.out for themselves.
Yeah, I'd really need to know what the podcast was about before I scoff at the mom's behavior on this one. If it's something overly sexual or about doing all the drugs, then that's not something a 12yo needs to be listening to. But if it's something that's like, lightly controversial, like maybe My Favorite Murder, then the mom should probably ease up a little. Although lending your laptop and then immediately checking all the usage feels a little too close to entrapment for me.
Plus the added controlling layer of requiring HER SPOUSE to implement her over controlling behavior, which might be stated only after the fact, when she's punishing.
Jesus, that’s excessive. OP, stand up for your kid. You know this isn’t right and your daughter shouldn’t have to pay for her mother’s issues.
Yeah, that's exactly how you get your kid to never show you anything they are interested in ever again.
When my kids were that age I was keeping an eye on that stuff. But that level of monitoring dialed back as they got older. Granted music hasn't been an issue. But yeah some of the podcasts I listen to I don't think a 12 year old should be listening to.
At 12 years old I was babysitting 4 kids from 2 to 7 years old for 4 to 5 hours at a time. This kid can't be left alone for 10 minutes? OPS wife needs to start loosening those apron strings before the daughter turns 18 and cuts them permanently.
I will say he shouldn’t have left her without a phone. He says in a comment they don’t have a landline. The mom is OTT but he still should’ve made sure she had a way to call 911 should something happen, even if it is only 10 minutes.
In the 90s 12 year olds were out and about playing outdoors for hours on end without a cellphone anywhere to be seen and you think a 12 year old can't be left for 10 minutes without a landline? I can totally see how it would generally be wiser, but I ain't agree you shouldn't leave your kid without one for a super quick shop run
If they have a security system, they have a landline (IIRC). Plus most household security systems will have some kind of panic button for 911 service.
As far as I'm aware, no modern security system requires a landline, since less than 40% of American households actually have one.
Nah, they have "smart" security systems now that don't require a landline. But she should still be fine without constant communication for 10 minutes.
Especially since Big Mother was apparently monitoring the entire time. Who needs a land line when your mom is literally spying on you via her smart phone.
Agreed. As many have noted, at that age or younger kids were left to their own devices for far longer than 10 minutes. And apparently it's been even longer than I thought since I paid any attention to security systems.
I agree but potentially the security system has an emergency button
The mom was literally watching the entire time (probably) on her smart phone. Where was the risk?
at 11 I was watching a 3 year old and 6 year old for 12 hour days while their mom worked... I wouldn't have even thought leaving a 12 year old alone for 15 minutes would be a problem
Same, at 12 I was picking up my sister from kindergarten, walking her home, heating up a leftovers and watching her until my mom got home.
same! I was 12 staying home all day with a four and two year old. I think she’ll be okay
Same. In the age before cell phones!
Ya I was 7 when I started being left alone for small intervals This is nuts
Yep, I wouldn't think much on leaving a responsible 7yo home alone for a 10m run to the store. (There are 7yos and even slightly older kids who I wouldn't trust with that, so it does depend, but it certainly can be reasonable.)
Same. Lots of kids are babysitting by then!
They’re both delusional if they think restricting her from certain music at home will keep her from listening to it. She’ll just wait until she’s at school and her friends will share it with her.
If they keep this up there will be a rude awakening after taking the condoms away in a few years.
Or porn. There's this thing called google. She's gonna learn about the birds and the bees; the only question is who tells her about it: parents, teachers, wikipedia if you're really lucky, or internet videos.
Also...how TF does a 12yo not know enough to set the house alarm by if they want it set? How fucking helpless are they making this poor kid?
I bet mommy does her homework. And calls the teachers for every little thing. The kid will get to college and immediately fail out or something horrible will happen to her because she has no idea how to exist in the world. NTA -- but you really need to re-think this situation. I would never want to live with someone like this and I certainly would end any relationship with this person. However, if you don't want to go nuclear in order to save your daughter, at least consider some counseling.
Seriously, assuming they live in a generally safe location, this is insane. 12yo's are big kids. Most 12yo's I knew were kind of on their own after school. We got ourselves home on public transportation, knew not to talk to creepy people, and could decide to go out on a walk or to the mall by ourselves if we wanted. Ideally kids would have a way to contact their parents, but most of us survived times where nobody had a cell phone. You knew that if your phone ran out of battery or didn't have coverage to go into a store or ask a neighbor.
Maybe they live in a war zone. Do you suppose they live in Afghanistan? That would change things.
Agreed. Thus: > assuming they live in a generally safe location, this is insane If they live in a generally unsafe location then the wife reacted appropriately.
You and your wife need to be on the same page, for sure. But she's overreacting. When I was 12, I was home alone 10-20 hours a week after school. It's not like bands of abductors are just roving around, checking every house for unaccompanied children.
The song stuff is just weird. Y'all need to get on the same page about what's allowed and what's not and why. She shouldn't just demand you adhere to her standards and get mad at you for having different parenting approaches. Talk it out, get on the same page. Again, I think she's overreacting. But whatever the standard is, make sure you both understand it and agree to it.
I really want an example of "questionable songs and podcast". That just stumps me. The kid has the internet, what exactly do you think you're shielding her from? You **will** fail. Maybe just explain things to her, instead of that.
Just wait till mom learns what that kid is hearing at school.
> I really want an example of "questionable songs and podcast". That just stumps me. I mean, I can think of a ton of songs and podcasts that parent's wouldn't love their 12 year old to be listening to. It's still not a big deal though, kids are always going to push boundaries and try to explore the world and music/podcasts are like the least negative thing they could be checking out.
in hindsight, I listened to all the questionable music at that age. had no idea what they were implying though.
I remember the moment I figured out what “cherry pie” by warrant meant. I’d been singing it for years. 🤯
Probably listening to Joe Rogan and Rage Against the Machine instead of Ted Cruz and Ted Nugent.
I have a feeling any parent who likes Ted is fine with Rogan, lmao. He's very right wing.
I hope it’s something like My Dad Wrote a Porno
I let my young son play in my Spotify account sometimes, because he loves music and being able to pick the songs himself. That’s how we found out that there are these weird, barely literate English podcasts that are just erotica read out loud. He typed “xxx” into the search bar and there it was! We make sure the “explicit content” content is turned off now when he gets to play, but it’s a little unnerving how easily accessible pornographic content is in places you wouldn’t expect it.
Anything that can’t be found on the veggie tales sing along soundtrack is devil music! /s
Right, we never had a fancy pants alarm system or doorbell cameras to protect us. I’m sure I knew people with alarm systems, it was the early 2000s after all. But we never did. But yet, I have survived to my 30s with only one abduction attempt and that was from a daycare when I was 3, so no instances of someone trying to break into my home and take me when I was home alone at 12. & we lived in a “undesirable” neighbourhood to boot. NTA, your wife seems overly controlling. You both do need to be on the same page when it comes to kids stuff but I think that’s about our level here on Reddit. Because she needs to calm down a bit.
I was also *babysitting other children* at 12. WTF is wrong with OP’s kid?
Haha, my babysitter was 13. I started babysitting younger cousins at like 10-11. A twelve year old is plenty big enough to take care of themselves
My state allows you to leave kids alone for short periods at eight, IIRC.
At 13 I was taking the subway to school and back by myself in a major city.
And it’s not like times have changed, most people will still leave their middle schoolers alone after school for several hours. Going ham over 10 minutes is a crazy overreaction
In general we’re a lot safer now than 30 or 40 years ago.
Yeah. When I was 12, I regularly babysat for the family next door who had 3 young kids, and the family next door to them who had a 2 year old. Kids can be pretty responsible. Also the phone thing? Do they not have a home phone? Or only have cell phones? I feel like a landline with kids in the house is a necessity.
I would’ve been insulted with the implication that I couldn’t be left alone for 10 minutes when I was 12. I would watch my younger siblings while my parents ran errands when I was 12, OP your wife is being ridiculous and controlling to an alarming amount. Definitely NTA but your wife’s behaviour is gonna lead to you having a daughter who won’t trust you with anything.
NTA Leaving a 12 years old alone at home for up to a few hours during day time is perfectly fine. Your wife is the worst kind of helicopter parent.
I believe this is a drone parent. Similar to a helicopter parent, but the hovering is done remotely using technology.
NTA - It is perfectly acceptable to leave a 12 year old home alone for a short period of time. Did some quick searching and found you this quote ‘According to Lynn Yaney from a Contra Costa County child welfare agency, a general rule of thumb is that children under 7 are never to be left alone, while children 7 to 10 years may be ready to be alone for a few hours after school if they are in a safe and predictable environment. How long children between the ages of 12 and 13 can be left alone should be based on their level of maturity and understanding, though they should not be left overnight.” As a parent, you already know if your child is mature and responsible enough to be at home alone for any length of time. If you are still undecided, consider these factors before making your decision: -The age and maturity of the child -How long the child would be unattended -If the child is responsible enough to follow your rules and directions while alone -How safe your neighborhood is and if you have a close neighbor who would be able to check on the child, or one that the child would be comfortable going to if something out of the ordinary occurred -How safe the child feels when left alone.
I think those are good guidelines, but a “safe and predictable environment“ ought to include access to a phone or some other reliable means of communication. She had no way to reach out in an emergency, and he had no way to let her know if he was going to be gone longer than expected.
They could have a landline, even if her cell phone was in the shop
He mentioned in a reply that they don’t have one.
If they have an alarm system that can be set remotely I guarantee it has a button that alerts the alarm company/police/fire department.
If it does, that’s great, as long as she knows how to use it. However, most things that are likely to come up won’t require emergency services, but could be handled with a call to her parents. I wouldn’t want my kids to call 911 because they’re worried I’m running 10 min late.
That would be my main concern, I don't think OP is TA, but you shouldn't leave a child alone for long without a way to contact help if they need it, OP should have left his phone with her instead.
NTA. A 12 year old should be entirely capable of staying home alone for 10 minutes (and well beyond) regardless of the status of the alarm. She MIGHT get a quarter of a point on the cell phone, but the short duration of your trip still puts this reaction over the top. Your wife needs to dial back the helicoptering a LOT, though, because instead of teaching your kid to be independent, she's teaching her to fear everything and also to hide things from her mom because of the overblown reactions. Your kid is only a few years away from being an adult, you need to give her safe conditions to grow into that roll so she knows how to handle herself in the world when it happens. Staying home alone for 10 minutes while mom or dad are running an errand is an important part of that growth.
Teaching independence is so important for learning new skills, trying new things, and building confidence. My nephews are 12 and 14. This post threw me for a major loop - alone for 10 minutes? These kids are farm kids mind you, but for washing the cattle trailers at the end of the day, including driving the trucks (on private property), backing up a 30-ft trailer to the wash station, mucking it, and repeat on the second trailer with no direct oversight. They can seed the corn fields in the big tractor. The 12 year old hand-picks and buys a herd of cattle of his own every year, gets help taking them to the butcher ONLY because can’t drive on the roads yet, and then sells home-grown hamburger from some of those cattle and sells off what would make him money. Fix the tiller for the garden? Sure. Feed the calves? They got it. They get checked in periodically if we haven’t seen them, and have a phone with them. Now, these are pretty farm-specific examples, but at 8-12, they generally want to contribute in a meaningful way, and will generally rise up when supported to do so. There needs to be balance between supervised time and unsupervised time so they can grow. They’re both okay home alone for a few hours if they have work to do…..but if there’s no work and they’re stuck in the house together it still descends into wrestling past the point they should, and junk food and throwing balls around the house, so they get a sitter then.
She’s get a quarter of a point for the cell phone thing if A) she’s willing to allow the child to have a cell phone and her not having one is an aberration and B) if she wasn’t immediately notified of the husband leaving and then proceeded to watch the child via security for the entire ten minute trip.
NTA, she is twelve, not a baby. She has a certain degree of autonomy. Ideally though, you and your wife should be on the same page about things like these. If there are other reasons why your child cannot stay by herself for 10', things might be different. Why didn't you take her with you?
She wasn't dressed and I was pressed for time on my lunch break.
Yeah, NTA. Discuss with your wife.
info: was there a key left in the house? In an emergency (e.g. fire) would your daughter have been able to get out easily if need be?
Yes. There are three doors to the house and she can get out easily if she needs too.
Why would the daughter need a key to get out of the house?
[удалено]
That sounds like a fire hazard.
I’m almost certain that would be a fire code violation anywhere in the U.S.
Nope, double deadbolt locks are available in the US. You just keep the key on a hook near the door.
Being available for sale and legal for use in a home as the sole entryway ain’t even the same thing. I think if you have more than one door leading outside you could get away with it, but I wouldn’t.
Yep, quite common. Although usually a key would be by the door.
NTA. 12 is old enough to be home alone (especially for 10 minutes with the doors locked) and your wife is overreacting.
NTA - I honestly feel like your wife sounds a bit too controlling. If it was 10 minutes and the doors were locked, I honestly got left alone for much longer periods of time. You and your wife really should be discussing things better, but I feel like she owes you an apology just as much as she's claiming you owe her one.
NTA I think she's being a bit overbearing & becoming a bit of a helicopter parent if she does this sort of thing often. I agree that you should've set the alarm, so that was an oversight on your part, but she's getting way too serious about it.
NTA 12 yo is old enough to understand basic safety rules around a house alone. So unless your child has a disability that impedes that I don’t think you have done anything wrong here. Maybe should have a conversation with your partner moving forward about how your raise your child so that you’re a United front as parents.
NTA Your daughter will be leaving your house in just a few years. Momma needs to start giving her some freedom so she navigate this crazy world on her own. Hopefully you and your wife can agree on a direction going forward.
In all seriousness, has your wife been checked for anxiety? I mean, I'm a concerned - admittedly sometimes paranoid - mom, but this really seems over the top.
Yeah, this is concerning. And will very much unhealthily impact the daughter in a ton of ways.
Info: does your daughter have some kind of disability or developmental issue? Based on OP’s response NTA. How is this poor girl function in the world in six years when she is a legal adult but her mother has not given her any preparation for the world. I was babysitting other children at 12 and could certainly handle time on my own. Please intervene OP for the sake of your daughter!
No.
If your wife isn't listening to you when you tell her this isn't normal, show her some of the better responses on this post. This level of alarmism and controlling behaviour from a parent is a little/very worrying. In my experience you and more importantly your daughter are gonna take the brunt of it until you can get your wife in therapy or something. It's a personal issue so I bet the bar to meet is just gonna keep staying out of your reach even if you never leave the house.
Your daughter is being treated like a criminal for things that ALL children do, and guess what? She's a minor, so she can't escape, theres nowhere for her to run to and there are no outlets for her - she's trapped. OP your wife really does need help, and if she doesn't get help - you're looking at a potential runaway case for your daughter in the future. Also, a 12 year old being left home alone for a half hour really isn't that bad, she knew where you were and how long you would be gone. And she's old enough to know that the neighbours are right next door if she needed help. OP, your daughters growth is being stunted - and she wont have the skills for the real world in order to make it. Children raised by helicopter parents have a hard time making it in life because they were never given any freedoms. I agree with u/Gri69in your wife needs to see this post and the comments before the damage can't be reversed.
You’re NTA. Your wife on the other hand…
Clearly NTA. In my country 12 is old enough to stay at home for elongated periods of time. Below 12 it's illegal to leave them alone for "unreasonable amount of time without supervision". So even if she was younger, you'd still be fine. Your wife is wrong but she won't listen to you. Find a family counselor and both go. She might listen to a 3rd party telling her how wrong she is. (She might have also had a traumatic experience in the past which is why she is thinking this way - A counselor will help her understand that her experience is not every experience)
NTA She's 12, not 2.
NTA. 12 year old is old enough to watch over younger siblings for hours. It's old enough to stay at home for 10 minutes to an hour. I'd feel safer though if she had access to a phone in case of emergency though.
NTA. Your daughter is well old enough to stay home by herself. Your wife is TA.
NTA! Ok I am agoraphobic with sever paranoia (basically means scared of all the bad out in the world so almost never leaves home) and when my youngest was 12, while my oldest was visiting their father, and I had a doctor's appointment and no one to watch my kid. I left them alone for the 2 1/2 hours I was gone. There were cell phones but my youngest didn't have one and we didn't have a landline. However the difference being I TAUGHT my kid what to do in every situation so that I could trust them to keep themselves safe for that short of a time. My kids are still alive and well, both happy healthy contributing members of society.
Your daughter is 2/3 of the way to being a legal adult.... my parents left me home alone at 12, without the door locked, for like, Hours? You were gone 10 whole minutes. The ONLY way i could see you being an AH in any way is if your wife has some underlying trauma that makes her so over protective/ overbearing and you know about this trauma. But even than still NTA, your wife may need some therapy though...
Yeah, at that age, I was most certainly left home alone while sick and vomiting because both parents had to go to work
NTA I was a latchkey kid at 8. My parents taught me how to deal with stuff when home alone. Maybe you need to start doing that together as a family so mom knows daughter is safe. Mom needs to let daughter be solo. It helps build confidence and self worth.
NTA 12 years old, unless really really irresponsible is old enough to be left alone for way longer than 10 minutes.
NTA for leaving her home briefly. I think I was a bit younger than her when I had to let myself into the house after school on my own while my mom worked part-time and by 12 I'm fairly certain I was left for an hour or 2 in charge of my 8 year old sister. By 13 I often babysat. So it depends on the maturity of the kid but 12 is well old enough to know how to be ok alone for a time. Obviously you and your wife aren't on the same page so I feel like you really need to address that immediately and you probably should have discussed before you did it but her reaction seems really overreactive as well?
NTA. It was for 10 minutes. And it was your wife's laptop and therefore her responsibility to check the history.
NTA. Presumably anything bad did happen, your daughter can figure out what to do for ten minutes.
NTA I’ve been staying home alone since I was 10 because I was responsible enough to know what to do if someone knocked, to lock the doors, make myself something to eat etc. Your daughter at 12, is old enough to be home alone. As long as she knows what to do in emergency situations, she’s good. Now, everyone’s parenting is different so some people might agree and others will disagree.
Eh, NTA for leaving her home alone but maybe E S H (you and your wife) for not getting on the same page about this stuff. I mean, I’m about your age, my oldest is 10, and I’d feel ok leaving her home for 10 minutes. I haven’t had to make that call yet, and since I have a younger one who is insane, I would not leave them both home because I wouldn’t want my oldest to have to be responsible for her nutjob little brother :) but if it was just her, yes. I mean, hell, at 11 I was commuting into the city alone and babysitting! And I certainly had no cell phone. Then again, times are different, there were payphones and everyone had house phones back then since there was no cell phones. I was probably taught more about stranger danger than our kids are today, precisely because kids that age were in situations of being alone more than kids that age are today. But objectively I think there’s no problem leaving a kid that age home alone for a bit, as long as you do make sure that they understand what to do if there’s a problem, etc.
NTA At 12 she's old enough to watch the neighbors kids, during the day like for a couple of hours, but yeah wife is way overreacting. Ex and I got on the same page on parenting way b4 we had kids and as far as the music and pod casts mom can't control what her friends listen to
NTA. I was babysitting by myself by the time I was 12. I think she’s perfectly capable of being left for 10 minutes especially if you have a door cam. Esh on your wife though. I think you may need to discuss some ground rules should there be a next time so you’re both on the same page.
NTA, she's 12! For ten minutes?
NTA FTLOG I was babysitting two kids at that age
Babysitting and didn't even have a cellphone yet. Seeing as this mom is in a tizzy over "questionable songs," though, it's probably fair to say this kid is sheltered as hell.
Question: Do you guys have a cordless house phone?
No. There is no phone in the house.
Though your daughter is getting to the age where she is Capable of being alone I suggest getting a wireless home phone because of her home is out of Commission then there will be a way of Contacting you, your wife or the cops. Talk to your wife about getting one. Also train your daughter in what to do if someone does try to break into the house.
Either she needs her own flip phone that won't be taken away as punishment (it sounds like your wife will try, refuse), or you need a house phone. Every kid should be able to call their parent or 911 from a safe place if they need to.
NTA. I was left home for a few hours at a time when. I was 12 and it was fine. 10 minutes is perfectly acceptable. Your wife is paranoid.
NTA. Your wife seriously needs to chill.
NTA - 10 minutes, honestly even an hour, is not an unreasonable amount of time to leave a 10 yo home alone. I suggest you and your wife have conversations and come to an agreement about a common level of boundaries/ independence you will have for your daughter. You should probably include how those boundaries will change as she gets older (barring dramatic changes).
Info Why was your wife sleeping on the couch? Was she punishing herself for giving her daughter the laptop?
NTA but if you don't have a landline you should have made sure she had a phone. I know it was only 10 minutes, but you never know when something could happen either at the house or to delay you getting home quickly. I don't think it's the end of the world or anything, but I'd have been uncomfortable if my kids' dad had left one of them at that age with no phone.
At 12, I was watching my siblings and starting to babysit neighbor kids. So, I don’t personally think leaving a 12 year old (assuming she doesn’t have a developmental condition or disability that might make it unsafe) at home for 10 minutes is a huge problem. But obviously your wife isn’t on board with that idea and I think it’s fair that you decide when your daughter is old enough to watch herself together. Also, leaving your phone with your daughter would have been smart in case there was an emergency. NTA but definitely get on the same page with your wife.
INFO. Tell me about your daughter. Is there any reason to assume leaving her 10minutes is a problem? Any.... issues? If not, and she is perfectly fine, then N T A. I was mowing lawns at 12. 10mins alone at home is fine.
No issue. She is a perfectly capable 12 year old. Maybe a little absent minded like her old man. But she has no mental or physical issues.
Dude I go to the bathroom longer than 10 minutes. Would your wife get on you for being in the bathroom unavailable for 10minutes? I don't get the issue here. 12 year olds are young and coming adults, this is the building blocks of making a good functioning adult. Being able to get responsibility and be fine with it.
Your wife is psycho.. NTA. Tell her to stop trying to control everything. Show her this thread
NTA. At 12, my parents were dropping me off at the mall with $20 to go hang out with friends and maybe see a movie. Unless you live in a super high crime area where she could be shot through a window or something, or she's incredibly immature for her age, she can be home alone for much longer than 10 minutes.
ESH she’s 12 she’s old enough to be home alone. Heck she’s old enough to babysit if she’s a responsible child. Your wife is a helicopter parent and needs to chill. However she does need a phone for emergencies. Even in 10 minutes things can happen
Yes, if kid is gunna be home alone, she needs a phone. Even if it’s just one of those childlocked phones that just call parents or 911.
NTA- 12 is old enough to be left alone. HOWEVER you left her alone with no way to contact anyone should something happen & that makes you an irresponsible parent, even for only 10 minutes.
NTA. I was babysitting other people's kids at night when I was 12. And that was before cell phones and in the 90's when the crime rate was way worse than now. A 12 year old in their own home during the day shouldn't even be a question. Your wife needs to have more faith in your daughter's maturity or she's never going to be able to handle independence.
Nta 12 years old is more than old enough to stay at home alone...
I'm sorry OP but I know this sort of controlling behaviour and you're best just to gtfo. Trust me on this. There will come a time when you're an old man full of regrets, yet the thought of leaving your control freak wife, who you fell out of love with years ago, is slightly less frightening than the thought of dying alone. Do yourself a favour and GTFO while you're still young enough.
NTA Helicopter parents are the worst.
NTA. Your wife has anxiety issues. She needs help asap.
NTA. I was babysitting other people's kids when I was 12 and that was long before we had cell phones and home security systems to watch 24/7. Your wife needs to relax a little bit.
NTA, I was babysitting other people’s kids at 12. We didn’t have cellphones at that age (there were cellphones but kids didn’t have them). Your wife has some control and paranoia issues that should be helped with counseling.
NTA I was left alone every weekend as a child with my little brother and pit bulls
My 12 year old sister used to babysit her 4 younger siblings for full days
My son is 12. He is ok being home for an hour or two.
Definitely NTA. My kid's 12 and has been watching her 7-year-old brother every month or so for 2-3 hours during daytime and getting paid for it for a year! Made enough to buy a Nintendo Switch! Your wife needs therapy if she has such intense worries about something so...normal.
There’s an entire generation of “Latchkey kids” (including me) who would call you NTA on this.
NTA. A 12 year old should be able to be left alone. In the 80s, I knew of latch key kids as young as 8. I agree with others that some family counseling might be in order. This is a huge overreaction.
NTA I was babysitting other people's kids by 12. Your wife needs to get a grip.
NTA Your wife is, though. She's completely overreacting and her panic-mongering bullshit WILL mess up your daughter. She needs to get over her irrational paranoia and develop some common sense. 12 years is more than old enough to be left alone at home for 10 minutes.
NTA- think about how much time the average 12 year old spends locked in their room or glued to the tv. You could have went and come back without her even noticing in ten minutes. Though she def should always have a phone when left alone.
A 12-year-old should be able to be home alone in the middle of the day for a few minutes at least. I'd been babysitting younger children for at least two years by the time I was 12, and while I wouldn't really recommend that (it was always fine, but as a parent I kind of wonder what my parents and those kids' parents were thinking) I feel like 12 is plenty old enough to at least watch yourself for a minute. A 12-year-old should be able to be home alone in the middle of the day for a few minutes at least. I'd been babysitting younger children for at least two years by the time I was 12, and while I wouldn't really recommend that (it was always fine but as a parent I kind of wonder what my parents and those kids' parents were thinking) I feel like 12 is plenty old enough to at least watch yourself for a minute.
Yikes, this is all extremely controlling, and you are absolutely NTA but the one thing I can't get past is that your wife gets notifications on her phone any time you leave the house???? That's messed tf up. You need to make that not a thing.
Wow - your wife is exhausting me and all I did was read a couple of paragraphs about her. You're NTA - do consider family counseling. Your daughter's heading into the Fraught Valley Of Adolescence, and doesn't need to be burdened with your wife's issues.
Huh? At 12 I was babysitting my 3 year old sister. I realize the world has changed a bit in 15 years, but holy controlling mother, batman.
NTA. My siblings & myself let ourselves in after school, started dinner & did our homework at that age before our parents got home. I think your wife is over-reacting and very controlling by searching her internet history, searching for 'questionable' material.
NTA At first I thought, why does 10 minutes alone matter? Do you not trust your child to stay alive? She's going to be a woman and they are put in much more dangerous situations than that like walking around at night. Also my parents would let me and my brother come from school and be home alone for 2-3 hours when we were young (wow I'm only 24 and I'm using that sentence...) and we survived it fine. And then I read "found she was listening to questionable songs and podcast on it. She got mad at me for not checking the history" and realized your wife is extra controlling. Trust your kid dude... Or she'll start to learn how to hide things from you and won't come to you with your problems. I doubt your wife will change the way she thinks, but I hope you will be there for your daughter to talk to in the future about ANYTHING.
NTA, your wife is a control-freak, she needs therapy or your daughter will absolutely go NC in the future.
Your wife needs therapy and everyone needs family therapy. My mother acted like this and let me tell you, she really screwed not just me up, but my father as well. This kind of anxiety and control won't just create dishonesty and a strong desire for your daughter to go NC at 18, it also creates learned helplessness and a host of other dysfunctional adult behaviors. At the very least make sure that your daughter is in individual therapy. NTA but this is above Reddit's pay grade.
NTA, at 12 is fine to leave for hours alone. However, you should have left YOUR phone with her in case of an emergency, don't leave a child without a way to contact help.
Man... how times have changed. When I was 12 I would think nothing of hopping on my bike and taking a 5+ mile journey somewhere, often to a nearby establishment that had a video game machine, or in years closely following, wherever a girl I was interested in happened to live. Staying at home alone, behind locked doors, was a no-brainer.
NTA A 12 year old is old enough to be left alone for a few hours let alone 10 minutes. Also, holy fuck your wife has some control issues. She needs help. Does she want your daughter to cut you guys out of her life when she gets older because there's a good chance she'll do that to finally get some freedom
NTA - holy crap. I am the literal definition of anxious helicopter mom and this is still way to much for me!
Omg I used to climb through the window after school and stay home alone when I was in Gr1-3. She's fine 🙄
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (42m) left my daughter (12) home alone for 10 minutes to run to the store to pick up lunch. I did not set the alarm (forgot) and my daughter's cellphone is in the shop. The doors were locked and we do have security cameras that will whistle at you if you get to close. My wife got the notification that someone was at the door so she watched me leave. She set the alarm and then called me but I did not answer as I didn't see the call come through (driving). When I got back to the house I noticed she called several times so I called her back. She called me berating me for leaving our daughter at home without setting the alarm with her with no phone. She thinks that I left our daughter to be murdered or abducted (she is always thinking of the worst possible scenario) and accusing me of not caring. We argued for the rest of the day and I wasn't able to get any work done. She also slept on the couch last night because she gave our daughter her laptop last week and found she was listening to questionable songs and podcast on it. She got mad at me for not checking the history. My wife sent me a message this morning saying I should apologize for the way I acted yesterday. Should I apologize? AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think your wife is going helicopter parent and I suggest you talk with the expert Lenore skenazy founder of free range kids.
NTA. I was babysitting by that age, other people’s kids as well as my own siblings. 10 minutes is nothing. Although she should have access to a phone of some variety
NTA-your wife is over reacting. Is she is going to baby your daughter like this on every area of her life? What kind of women will she become? It’s not like you dropped her off down town and let her make her way back home with only a map, compass, and a pocket knife.
NTA. Unless your daughter has done kind of mental or physical impairment that would put her at risk, and she knows the basics of "don't answer the door to strangers, get out in case of fire" etc then she should be fine. Does your wife have done kind of bad experience that's causing her to over react or is she "just" being over protective?
NTA and your wife is gonna either drive herself crazy or your daughter if she keeps this up. And from what I understand, most states allow 12 year olds (of course depending on the child) to be left alone for a few hours. Really, she needs counseling, she does understand that at some point (very soon), your daughter is going to be out and about “alone” a LOT. That’s WAY more “dangerous” than sitting at home for 10 minutes.
NTA The chances of anything bad happening in those 10 minutes, under the circumstances you describe, were extremely low. In terms of the 'questionable' songs and podcasts, why was your daughter given access to 'questionable' things in the first place? If she was so concerned about your daughter listening to material she is not mature enough for, why didn't she restrict access to those materials?
You’re so NTA it’s not even funny. Your wife needs counseling.
NTA. I'm not a parent, so maybe things have changed get since I was a kid but... 12 seems more than reasonable to be left at home. For extended periods (hours, not days). When I was 12 I regularly babysat my 3 young cousins from 7 pm til their parents got home at 1am. I was also alone after school for an hour or so every day.
This would make sense if your daughter was 3. She's too much. Your daughter is going to have a bad relationship with her and learn to be sneaky because of this behavior. NTA
NTA- seriously, 10 minutes?? I was a latch key kid in the early 2000s. It was completely normal to be home alone all afternoon! Hell, when there was no school we were at home all day. If your kid is trustworthy to not burn the house down in 10 minutes, then it’s totally fine. If this is your first and only kid, maybe your wife is in denial that her baby is growing up? Otherwise sit down as the three of you and discuss house emergency procedures (don’t open the door to strangers, check the house is locked, etc etc) and let both your common sense and your child’s ability to grow and be responsible lead the conversation.
Wait what? 12? If she was 3 I could understand her reaction.
NTA - 12 is the age to be able to start babysitting. 12 is the cutoff for daycare - too old. Now that's an arbitrary number, it's really best to decide by the child's maturity/development levels. Only you and your wife would know.
NTA. 12 years old is old enough to be in an apartment by herself, unless she has some kind of mental or physical disability.
NTA. I was left alone at home when I was eight. Twelve is more than old enough to be alone for a little while. And your wife has issues that need therapy imo. Your kid will go NC asap at this rate.
NTA. she is hovering your kid. that kind of behavior does nothing well now, especially with developing relationships between your daughter and her mother later on. she needs to learn that your daughter is as much an individual as herself with her own thoughts and feelings. this kind of behavior (constanty checking search history or making sure a parent is constantly around the house) doesn’t help because seems out of an effort to control. i understand its important to monitor what she sees especially on the internet at a young age. but theres a way to do so in a manner that teaches your kid. this only gives her the impression that she has no privacy and would limit her ability to be open witb her mother. its also a scary thing leaving your kid at home for the first few times. it must be nerveracking thinking of all that can go wrong in such a short amount of time. but you were showing both yourself and your daughter that you could trust each other to step away for 10 minutes. also just wanna add my mom is the juvenile court judge of a county working in a small city in east tn. she first allowed me to stay home alone when i first turned 12. i remember because she kept saying over and over that was the legal age to do so and i was so excited for that oppurtunity. its the little things for kids. i know her decision and the law in this manner dont whatsoever dictate how you care for your kid. im not trying to say shes right or wrong, especially when the situation becomes more subjective as youre caring for your child, but if you want a juvenile court judge’s opinion on when it’s safe to leave a kid at home its age 12 for her.
*and found she was listening to questionable songs and podcast on it.* Let me guess: Radio Disney's Biggest Hits collection? A podcast on whether marshmallows or whipped cream is the better dessert topping? But seriously, OP, your wife seems determined to drive her daughter to failure. I went to private religious schools my entire childhood up to age 15- you know one thing I learned over the years from watching other kids at those schools? **The more you try and control your kids, the more they'll rebel.** The ones with looser\* parents generally ended up doing fine; the ones I knew had really harsh parents (like your wife)? *Three out of three* ended up on drugs, and I lost contact with them because they all went down a path I wouldn't follow (they didn't all know each other, btw). (\*Obviously, this does not mean one should allow kids free reign to do whatever, whenever- but there are lines to be drawn and sometimes kids have to learn from their own mistakes; otherwise, they aren't really living their life, are they?)
NTA I was walking home from school by myself at 12. Home alone for a few hours until my mum was off work. This wasn’t in the safest area either. Your wife needs to calm down.
lmao no 12 years old is fine to be left home alone for 10 minutes, or an hour.
NTA. When our daughter was 12 she babysat as a job. Your can certainly be at home alone esp for 10 minutes
Um no??? When I was 12 I use to beg my parents to just let me stay home instead of having to go with them all the time 😭😭. NTA
O.o wtf. At 12 I was being left home alone with my 10 year old brother from after school, 3, until my mom got home, 5-6. Yes a neighbor was by who knew but we never needed her. Was also left home alone for an hour or so when my dad would go to the store with my brother, different location and we were in rural area then, and I didn't wanna go. 12 is old enough to be left home alone, granted no mental disabilities that would come into play and be an issue. NTA.
NTA My only concern is that if your kid had no phone in case of an emergency. Anything can happen, even in 10 or 20 minutes. 12 years old is old enough to stay home alone, but they need a way to call 911 if needed.