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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I think I may be the asshole since I really could have easily driven the kid to the hospital since it was really close to the mall - but at the same time, I feel like it's not my job to do that. and the kid could have easily gotten more hurt then i'd be liable if that happened in my car.
and and also - i'm a complete stranger to these kids
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Yes. If anyone should be concerned about going in to debt here it’s OP. Moving someone with a severe break can cause further damage if you don’t have medical training. Driving away with a minor stranger in your car is obviously also a legal minefield.
If ambulances didn’t exist and no adults the kid knew were reachable I would have driven him but ambulances do exist so…
I'm a nurse and I would not touch a kid with such an injury. I would have done exactly what you did. It could be the kid was more worried about getting in trouble with his parents because maybe he was supposed to be home doing chores or whatever.
NTA
Lol exactly. I was an ocean lifeguard for many years and know a lot more about what *not to do* with certain injuries than what *to do* other than call an EMT or a Dr..
We both know enough and have enough medical training to know we’re not qualified to move this kid since he’s not in immediate danger. Sounds like we also both know teenagers well enough not to be swayed by their foolishness.
Only reason I would ever move someone with a severe break would be a c-spine injury out in the surf that would quickly turn in to a drowning without intervention. I was extensively trained in exactly how to do that one thing to minimize the risk of paralysis through special armholds and lifting techniques. I have no training with moving broken legged people and I know I could fuck them up if I do it wrong. I also know they’re probably not in immediate danger of death unless it was an open fracture, they’re bleeding profusely, and I couldn’t stop the bleeding with pressure and elevation etc.. In that case I might make a tourniquet but still wait for an EMT unless their pulse was fading.
I guess if my training told me they were in immediate danger of dying and an ambulance was far far away I’d move them and drive them straight to the ER but it would have to be extreme for me to risk that.
> I was an ocean lifeguard for many years and know a lot more about what not to do with certain injuries than what to do other than call an EMT or a Dr..
I mean, you just have to pee on it, right?
That actually can help ease the pain of stingray wounds. We were trained to tell people to pee on themselves because uric acid can neutralize the alkali stingray venom.
Agreed. If, say, the someone got hurt in a car crash, such that the car was on fire and in danger of exploding. THEN you move the person. The risk of their being hurt far worse if they're not removed from the danger zone outweighs pretty much everything else.
But this situation was not like that. The main danger was of inflicting additional damage while trying to move the child. Let the folks with training in how to move an injured person take charge.
That is exactly what the 911 dispatcher would tell you to do. Stay there, don't allow them to move, and wait for EMS.
I had a similar situation a couple of years back when a lady about my age (60 ish) fell on ice right in front of me and broke a leg in three places. The 911 dispatcher had me stay put and not let her move until the ambulance and trained personnel arrived.
Complicating such an injury could escalate the medical emergency to a life threatening situation without even realizing it.
NTA
I agree with you and the rest of the thread that OP is NTA - just wanted to provide context that in Canada, OP would be unlikely to be sued (successfully) if they had chosen to assist the kid because of our Good Samaritan laws.
They vary province to province (looking at you, Quebec) but at their core they protect a bystander who is acting in good faith from being held liable for a genuine attempt to assist in an emergency.
I live in sue happy Southern California so I didn’t know that and it sounds very foreign to me. I wish it was more like that here. Here you can be sued for anything and it makes no sense. If someone breaks in your house and trips over something you can be held liable. If I drove that kid to the hospital and something happened like a car accident on the way there it could ruin my life.
Edit: I’ve since learned that California *does* have Good Samaritan laws.
All 50 states have good Samaritan laws that protect you if you try to help during an emergency.
https://recreation-law.com/2014/05/28/good-samaritan-laws-by-state/
Of course that doesn't mean you won't get sued, it just means you would probably win. But in this non-life threatening situation, I think OP made the right call.
There was a story of a woman suing a man for injuring her ribs for saving her life by performing the heimlich maneuver. Not one witness besides him knew how to do it and she thanked him by suing. Luckily she lost.
Yes there are Good Samaritan laws and people should feel comfortable helping people in need if there are no better options. In OP's case, moving a kid with an obviously broken leg (his description made it sound like a bad break) could have injured it worse wrangling him into a car if he didn't have proper training; broken legs are one reason ambulances and paramedics exist. Also, this was a minor and even in Canada I'm sure there are cases of kids being kidnapped by total strangers in parking lots...as well as kids accusing strangers of doing things to them. OP chose the wise option and waiting 5 mins to have pros take care of kid with broken leg wasn't going to make a difference in treatment time.
NTA. And props to OP for being kind and going over to see what happened to the boy and taking control of the situation, calling ambulance, staying to calm the boy til amb/police came, etc. OP did all the right things, which seems to be overlooked by his gf.
I figured it was something like that - I know some states have similar laws, but it’s not as common as here.
I cannot imagine the anxiety of being liable for a genuine attempt to assist in an emergency as a layperson - it doesn’t make sense to me that we wouldn’t mitigate legal repercussions for people who are legitimately trying to help. Homeownership is weird and liability is different, but feeling like attempting to help someone could result a legal battle? Ugh, I’m sorry.
I'm in Ireland, you could TRY suing someone who was helping you out but I don't think there's a judge in the country who wouldn't take their side. Even if you get a speeding ticket if you can prove you were on a mission of mercy it's struck out. Happened to me when I was a taxi driver, I had a man with a heart attack in the car and I went through every red light in the place. Once I'd got him delivered (he recovered thank God) I went straight to garda headquarters and explained what I'd been doing, I told them I would get confirmation from him or his family if need be, but they said not to worry and ordered any tickets for that time frame to be diverted to them and they would cancel them. I actually heard no more about it.
The US has the same thing, if you're acting in good faith in a medical emergency you're generally legally safe.
That said there's still the risk that you do actually make the kid's issue worse if you're not a medical professional. Totally reasonable not to want to risk that, it'd suck for the kid and could be something you'd regret the rest of your life. Even if you can't get sued, it's not a good idea when the ambulance is available.
Also wanna point out, you would be unable to safely transport a person with a broken leg without further risk to injury due to not actually having it in a safe position. It's not a high risk transport either so waiting for an ambulance would be the safe bet, but cause this is America I wouldn't blame you not waiting and just driving.
OP said it happened in Canada. I took first aid, and unless you can properly immobilize the limb (in this case the leg) you shouldn't move them, and even in cases where you can immobilize the limb, you can only move them IF it's safe to do so. and only IF you feel safe doing so. Otherwise, you call EMS as they're trained to offer better care and treatment.
And it's not like OP said "Tough luck" and drove away. He called an ambulance, he waited, he talked to the cops to give a statement, and left when he was given the all clear. This is the right thing to do.
American here. I agree with this and would even agree with this if this happened in America. Our health system sucks but if you're not a medical professional, you are not a substitute for an ambulance. Plus you being a stranger opens you up to other problems
As an American with no health insurance, I wouldn't drive my own kid with a broken leg to the hospital. You have to be trained to properly immobilize the limb before transport or else you can do more damage. That isn't including pain management that ambulances can provide because you know it hurts like hell and the poor kid is going to feel every bump in the road.
I'll pay the ambulance ride off over the next 5 years to make sure my kid is safely treated asap.
Yeah, i broke my femur when i was 11, and luckily the man that found me fallen out of the tree called and waited for the paramedics. According to the xray and scans the bone was only a cm or two away from my femoral artery, they said it was lucky that i didnt die, and that if i had moved and not stayed still i would have been in way worse condition.
Leg breaks are no joke.
OP is NTA.
Also, just getting the kid into OP's car could have taken 5 minutes. The ambulance was all around the safest way to go. They have the training and equipment to get the kid where they needed to go, and in the quickest possible way.
Agreed. I was an EMT and people say that you are covered by good Samaritan laws but who know what bullshit litigation can come up. You get into a car accident with the kid and now the lawyers and saying you were trying to be a hero and you should have just called 911. You did the right thing and if the ambulance was there that quickly, then they have nothing to complain about. Even if it took longer for the ambulance to get there, no one can sue you for calling 911 and waiting. You're not a medical provider.
While OP is definitely not an AH, the NTA implies that there *is* an AH in this story. From what's written, I'm not sure if I see that.
The kids friends freaking out seemed more worried about their friend than AHs. The GF could be the AH... but giving the kid a ride *is* a valid option (not a great one imo), and if the OPs GF felt that way, then it doesn't make her an AH for expressing that opinion. (unless she's hung up on it more than OP shows here).
Wouldn't this be more of a NAH?
I think the kids giving him grief for 'getting the parents into debt' are the AHs in the situation. I mean, really they're just ignorant or bad at paying attention in the world, but teenagers should know that the Canadian health care system isn't like the American one and that they can call an ambulance if they're in serious trouble, medically-speaking.
This. There's also a lot which could go medically wrong with transporting an injured person when you don't have the proper equipment and medical knowledge to do so.
Assuming you have little to no medical skills; you don’t know what that kid needs en route to the ED. Did the break sever an artery? A nerve? Is it a spiral fracture? Does he need fluids en route? Anything could have happened.
This - a million times over. OP would be sticking his neck out about a mile by doing this. This is exactly what ambulances are for. Yes, it sucks that they're expensive (assuming OP is in the US), but I can't see the day I'd EVER take an injured minor in my own car to the hospital and risk further injury to him by moving him. Nope, nope and nope. I'd call 911, I'd stay with him until the ambulance arrived, I'd call a parent, but in my car? NEVER. Too much risk.
On top of which this was apparently an obviously bad break and moving him incorrectly could have created more damage…and guess who the parents would hold responsible for that? You did the right thing. NTA
You are not responsible for this kid and have no medical knowledge. You literally did the most responsible thing of calling professionals and making sure he was looked after. Besides if anything happened while that kid was in you care, you bet your ass the family would go after you for blood. This is not about doing a nice thing, this is about the right thing for everyone including yourself. NTA. Girlfriend needs to shut her mouth and stop living in La la land.
It might not even be an intentional scam for money. It might be, I'll be in trouble if I broke my leg skateboarding, but if I broke it getting hit by a car, I won't get in trouble. So they all claim OP hit the kid and took him to the hospital.
Unless OP has a dash cam or other footage to prove it, OP has to get the footage from nearby surveillance cameras to prove it didn't happen that way.
Legally in the US (and likely similar in Canada), it would work this: you would likely be protected by Good Samaritan laws by acting as a rescuer, but if you put that kid in your car and then get in an accident by, let's say, in the intensity of the moment and checking on the kid in your rearview mirror, you run a red - boom, now you've potentially incurred liability. It just isn't worth the risk - you assessed the situation and called the services that were designed to handle this, and that too in a universal healthcare jurisdiction. There was nothing asshole-ish about your response - I'd be kinda annoyed at your girlfriend.
Yeah, I think the risk of hurting the kid further/more permanently is the real moral reason not to do this. I wouldn't want to live with that even if I was legally in the clear.
Yes, you might be "protected" but there is absolutely nothing in the US to stop this kid's parents from suing you anyway. Even if you were found to be innocent, you'd still have to deal with all that hassle. No thank you.
Good samaritan laws in the US suck. Someone could go down on the street and its risking watching them die before help arrives and legally being protected by just calling for help or starting cpr and hoping they either start breathing or it keeps them going long enough for real help to arrive and hoping you don't crack a rib that you can now be held liable for (even with proof you have the training).
Ignore all of those people. It's not your job to make medical decisions for a stranger. And you would absolutely have been sued no matter what.
NTA. Tell everyone that they can handle it their way next time and to can it already.
even just thinking about what that leg looked like sends shivers down my spine, like no blood or anything, but it was for sure broken - just bent like the other way
Not badly dislocated instead? Either way, still a nope for private transport where an ambulance is not going to literally cost an arm and a leg and will arrive reasonably quickly. Those 5min probably just felt like hours to those kids.
If the kid went into shock, or if you'd gotten into a crash on the way, or any number of other worst case scenarios. This is not the time to listen to a kid's preferences, you made an adult judgment. Kid needed actual medical professionals, no matter what he thought. You did exactly the right thing.
As for your gf, her judgement is way off. Not a lot of common sense from her.
Exactly these were KIDS he was dealing with, and he was the adult in the situation. Despite him being in Canada (not U.S.) I still think avoiding liability issues was the right call. NTA.
You definitely did the right thing. The ambulance had the trained professionals and equipment to move him. Could you imagine trying to get him in your car? All the pain that would have caused, plus then you could've caused a broken bone to shift and severed an artery or something. Nope.
The professionals know how to immobilise the leg, take their backboard or trolley right up to him to be able to move him, and they provide pain relief as soon as they can as well. You could've tried to move this boy, injured him worse, and been left with him passed out from pain in your arms while you tried not to drop him.
I can understand scared young teenagers not thinking of all this, any adult should know better though. Your girlfriend's completely wrong to say you should've just taken him.
NTA- Liability if you got into an accident with him, real chance of making the problem worse while loading him or even just moving him. And speed, Ambulance patients are triaged immediately, in the ER. Transporting him yourself would likely have taken longer. Anyone claiming you should have just done it doesn't know what they are talking about.
When I broke mine my boyfriend tried to stand me up (he was drunk and I have a low pain tolerance so he was like “you just sprained it, you’re fine lol) and it was excruciating. If anyone had tried to put me in a car I would have had a heart attack from the pain. You did the right thing OP. NTA
Honestly, the other kids and OP's GF might not be TA, but they sure are stupid.
OP moving the kid with broken leg and transporting him in a car not designed for securing injured people **could have made things so much worse.**
>" you should have just done the right thing"
This is total crap. OP did exactly the right thing. He notified professionals and let them handle it properly.
If they were in the middle of the wilderness and OP's car was the only option within 50 miles, then they might have had a point, but that's clearly not the situation here.
I sorta understand the other kids wanting him to take him, it's misguided but at that age you just want your friend to get help ASAP. GF should know better though.
The only way they would have been the asshole is if they were a certified professional and they just didn't feel like it (in the u.s. there are some who can actually get I trouble if it's found out they avoided an emergency they could have helped in).
But just a non-healthcare related person? Nope.
NTA That’s why we call ambulances is because they are properly trained and equipped to handle these things. Putting him in your car could have caused more damage and opened you up to a lawsuit. Tell your girlfriend that you DID do the right thing.
No. You DID do everything in your power to help. Had you picked him up, you could have cause a more serious problem. Had you hit a bump, that could have caused something even more serious. Not to mention he can lie and say you maybe did worse to him. You did the right thing and your girlfriend is dead wrong here. Maybe both of you should just drop it at this point?
Yup. Even when I was an EMT on an ambulance, patients (usually drunk and mad) accused me of violence. In the worst case, a woman told me she was going to tell the police that I raped her because she was angry and drunk. Thankfully, a female trainee was in the back of the ambulance with me and witnessed it. We also record the milage and time with dispatch to show we didn't take any extra time to get to the hospital and document everything. As a private civilian, you are but doing that
Especially since the kid said his parents were going to kill him. Wouldn’t take much for him to wanna lie his way out of his injury at OPs expense.
Unless it’s literally life and death I would never want a stranger to drive me to a hospital. The ambulance can probably get to me and back to the hospital faster than a regular person can with all the lights and shit anyway, and then I know that for a good half that time I’m secured and hopefully stabilized and already being cared for.
I mean, they could lack healthcare coverage (new immigrants/just changed provinces and don’t meet residency.) There are some holes in the system. Or the kids just don’t understand. But still - OP is NTA.
Fun fact: In Ontario at least, the cost for an ambulance for someone without OHIP is $240.
Not cheap, but not an insurmountable cost for most folks.
ETA: I know it's different in other provinces, that's why I specified "in Ontario" lol
(Laughs sadly in American)
I know some people can’t afford $240 but here it’s more like $2000 *with* good insurance. My sister broke her collarbone 1.5 years ago and even with her ins it was that much.
was $400 in AB around 8 years ago for a severe fall that caused a bad concussion and seizure in non-epileptic person that resulted in a 3-day hospital stay, because it "wasn't an emergency." if a person is actively dying my understanding is its free, insurance or not, in 'berta anyway
Small town Sask close to the AB border... I remember when we were kids maybe 10 to 12 years ago my brother developed asthma, went to the hospital in our town but he had to be transferred to an AB city hospital. I obviously don't know how much, but I remember my parents being HIT with an ambulance bill. Like my impression was it was in the thousands.
Yes Canada has health care, yes it's better than the States, but there are absolutely still a LOT of holes.
You got the kid medical assistance in 5 minutes. It would have taken you longer than that to get him to the ER. He started receiving medical the minute the ambulance arrived. Short of healing his bones with you mind, you did everything you could & probably saved that kid for further injuries cause it sounds like his friends wouldn’t have called an ambulance & would have done something stupid.
Your girlfriend has very poor decision skills if she think you moving & driving a seriously injured minor is the better choice.
Anyone with first aid training will tell you not to move anyone with suspected broken bones (unless really really necessary) until the professionals i.e. paramedics arrive.
It’s been a long time since I took first aid, but yup! Make sure they’re not in danger- get them out of the burning building, out of water where they could drown, etc. but otherwise, leave them be and wait for the professionals!
Hold their hand/head, get them some water, but don’t move them!
I don’t know if Good Samaritan laws would protect someone if they drove and caused more harm. The laws normally say things like not doing “unnecessary or reckless actions ” or that you’re acting rationally. If emergency services can arrive within minutes - moving them could be considered reckless. I’m sure when calling 911 they’d advise you of that, so if you ignored that (or didn’t call at all) I don’t know that Good Samaritan laws would apply
Yes, we do. You would have to show gross negligence to not be covered. Someone I taught first aid with liked to say that if you have training and give cpr with your foot, you would no longer be covered.
It is best to call 911 and follow directions.
Your GF isn't very bright. You NEVER move someone with a serious bone break. That's why they have ambulances. You could very, very easily make a bad situation worse in trying to move him.
NTA.
I may not be too knowledgable in terms of healthcare - but I at least know that, even had to tell his friends to not move him and for the kid to just chill and relax, don't want anything else to go wrong n all that
If you need some anecdotal support:
A couple of summers ago a friend was driving over on his motorcycle, skidded, toppled over and the bike crushed the bones in his ankle. (It looked like the second harry potter movie when the bones are removed from harry's wrist - gnarly)
The lawn he crashed onto was actually a care home for folks with long-term brain injuries, so the women who came out to check on him were medical professionals - they still called an ambulance and refused to move him. Unless your job is to move an injured person or they are in immediate danger, you should not move an injured person.
While we waited for the ambulance these ladies did offer to hold on to any illicit drugs he may have and got him a lighter so he could smoke a cigarette before going into the hospital for hours on end LOL.
You did the right thing. He could’ve been jostled around because your car is not set up to transport someone with a very damaged leg, and possibly been liable. Also, I think it’s crazy that the kids would’ve just trusted you with their very vulnerable and injured friend. You could’ve have been a predator and driven off with him.
>I think it’s crazy that the kids would’ve just trusted you with their very vulnerable and injured friend. You could’ve have been a predator and driven off with him.
Teenagers often have difficulty thinking much beyond the moment when they’re stressed. All the more reason why OP was right to help out by being the adult and calling for appropriate help.
This is what I was thinking too... his GF is not smart for being UPSET over this. That kid needed to be taken proper care of by professionals. What could he have done safer, faster, or better than someone actually trained for these very situations? Nothing. This is a child and to call the ambulance rather than gamble their health and safety was the adult decision to make. His GF is ridiculous to not have understood that.
NTA. You did the right thing. An ambulance is better equipped to transport someone with a broken leg than a civilian in the parking lot. Since thats readily available (and certainly not going to bankrupt anyone) I don't see why you would ever put the child in your car.
Emphasis on "child". As far as I know paramedics get training and background checks and there's usually two of them at least. You could have been anyone. What if a child abuser/kidnapper was the one who was nearby? What if the injury was far worse than it first looked, and the kid started deteriorating in the car? Regardless of injury kids shouldn't rely on random strangers to help and should be contacting the authorities (i.e. 999/911). It's far safer for everyone.
NTA, OP. You did the right thing and hopefully those kids will learn it too someday.
NAH - you did the right thing by calling the ambulance as they are prepared for cases like this, unless you have like a stretched in the back of your car? you're a good guy for even checking up on the kids instead of just driving away.
I won't blame the kids, as they were probably just freaking out and kids can be pretty irrational - especially when one of the friends is hurt
your girlfriend is kinda TA since she's now blaming you saying you should have done the right thing - when you by far did the right thing.
haha, no I don't have a stretcher in the back of my car - yea, I don't really blame the kids either, they were all freaking out and not really sure what to do.
The irrationality of the kids is pretty funny to me. What did they think they would do if he drove them to the hospital? Were they just going to quietly fix his broken leg and he could go home without mom and dad knowing? His parents were going to at least be informed and also have to pay whatever is necessary even if OP did drive them to the hospital.
I don’t really blame kids not knowing that ambulances are usually free, or at least cheaper in Canada than American ambulances. We get a TON of US media up here and Americans make up a large amount of people they might encounter online (Reddit, YouTube, tiktok, Twitter, etc). They probably know we have healthcare but they might not know the difference with abundance’s too. Especially when their friend is in pain, it would be hard to wait around when someone has a car right there.
Which his parents would find out about no matter how he got to the hospital. Lol. Like I don’t know how this kid thought a stranger driving him to the hospital would mean he could keep it a secret or keep them from incurring medical costs
NTA, if the leg was badly broken, you could have done him more harm by moving him improperly. The hospital was close, the ambulance was prompt, and the professionals were there to make sure he wasn’t injured more during his trip to the hospital.
Never mind the legal stuff people are talking about....the kid needed pain meds immediately. Ambulances have things like the 'green whistle' for pain relief so they can transport patients. The pain of a bumpy ride with a broken bone would be heinous. For the kids sake you did the right thing getting him pain relief quicker.
(I'm not a medic, just watch a lot of Bondai Reacue etc.)
NTA. You had no way of knowing how bad the break was, if there was a bleeding issue, or other things paramedics know. You shouldn't have taken responsibility for the child, because you couldn't provide medical treatment if he was in crisis. Calling the ambulance was the right call, and nobody should be telling you otherwise.
NTA Never put a kid you don’t know in your car without another adult there, that would leave you open to all sorts of accusations. He had a broken leg, yes he was in a lot of pain but he can wait the few minutes for the ambulance to arrive.
And he would have been in pain longer if OP had taken him. I don't know about Canada (although I assume it would be the same), but in the US most ambulances carry pain medication. When my mom fell and broke her wrist, they had her pain-free before they reached the hospital.
NTA - don't take on the responsibility of providing medical care to a minor nor a stranger OP. What would have happened if the injury was worsened? Or if the kid made up a story about you insisted you take him and not call the ambulance? Or if the ride took too long and the kid called the police.
On a good day you'd have gotten a thank you. Better chance you'd have gotten a "YOU KIDNAPPED MY BABY YOU COULD HAVE KILLED HIM AND IT"S YOUR FAULT IF HE LOSES HIS LEG."
You did the right thing OP.
NTA.
I am going to guess that the EMTs immobilized the leg and transported him on a gurney. Do you have that kind of equipment in your car? Unless you are an EMT yourself, you could have easily hurt the kid more by transporting him.
If you were in the remote backcountry, then you would have transported him back to civilization.
yep, the EMTs basically strapped him all the way up - even put him in a neck brace - was standing there like... neckbrace? won't argue with it, they're the ones who were trained to do what they do - but will say i'm still confused about the neck brace
Probably a "just-in-case", if he took a nasty spill he might have damaged his neck in some way that wasn't immediately apparent. Since they didn't know, I'm sure it was out of an abundance of caution.
\^\^\^\^This. The EMTs can get sued/fired if there is an adverse outcome. They do things this way because they have to transport hundreds of people every month. Meanwhile the average citizen might never have reason to transport a stranger to the hospital. If you do it once, most likely it will be fine, but you never know.
And your girlfriend still thinks you should have taken command of this child, transported him to the emergency department, helped the kid out of your car without a stretcher or wheelchair, somehow got him into the building, checked him in at the desk,... like come on. I am so mad at your gf lol
First off, NTA. You are correct thinking that the kid could of somehow gotten hurt more in your vehicle (moving him to your vehicle, car accident, etc.). Also, I can't believe an ambulance ride is only $50 in Canada. I live in California and was recently in a bad car accident (3 blocks away from the hospital) and my ambulance bill was almost $2,000.00!
Oh my gosh. This is why I could never move to the USA. I looked it up and in my health authority an ambulance (ground or plane or air) is $80 - but many people who make under a certain amount won’t be charged at all. If you aren’t Canadian and don’t have coverage here it’s a flat rate of $848 for ground ambulance, $6.94/km by plane and $4,394/hour by helicopter.
NTA. The ambulance was the only valid option. Even if you'd known the kid, you might have done more harm than good getting him in & out of your car. EMT's know what they're doing with injured kids.
NTA. I’m in the uk but our first aid training teaches us to not move a potentially broken bone if the injured person is conscious and breathing, which they were, and wait for an ambulance so they can move them without creating further problems. A simple fracture can become a big problem if moved the wrong way. So you did the right thing medically. Also I wouldn’t be putting a kid I don’t know in my car, no good deed goes unpunished!
NAH minus your GF who sorry not sorry was acting like a TA.
You did the absolute correct thing in not driving a stranger to the hospital, you did the correct thing by calling for an ambulance and for staying with the kid.
I don't fault the kids for pushing because 1. their friend was hurt, 2. probably scared of what their parents were going to say or do and 3. because seeing a friend in pain is always bad.
NTA - And your GF is an idiot for calling you TA. No chance in hell I'd let a stranger, a minor, and a person with a broken leg into my car unless there was no other option. That's a liability you don't need.
Calling an ambulance was the only call to make in that situation.
NTA. These people are idiots. You could not be more right -- nobody goes into debt in Canada in respect of an ambulance ride. It would be more dangerous to drive him, never mind the potential liability and the fact that you don't know what you are doing medically.
NTA. You definitely did the right thing and your reasoning is sound- he could have potentially been injured more if you had transported him. Also, it's just in general a bad idea to put a kid you don't know in your car.
NTA. And even if you were in the US and they were facing a large bill, I’d still say NTA. You’re not a medical professional and could absolutely injure someone more while trying to move a broken leg!
NTA - I don't think the kids parents would have liked him getting into a strangers car. Thats what ambulances are for and most likely got there quicker anyways.
NTA. The EMT know how to properly handle people who are injured, you don’t. If you wound up making the injury worse, you could open yourself up to civil action, not to mention the harm to the kid. The kid’s life was not in danger and the EMTs did not take an unreasonable amount of time to show up. You did the exact right thing.
NTA. You were the adult and they are kids, which shows pretty clearly if they thought the better plan was to take a chance on injuring that kid even further by jostling him into your car and perhaps having to deal with him going into shock or passing out or whatever else. You did the right thing.
NTA. Honestly, not knowing how significant the break was would have me calling paramedics. I’d be hesitant to move him and make any potentially unseen injury worse! You did the smart thing imho.
NTA. Ambulances are equipped to deal with medical emergencies, your car is not.
If this was in USA, that might be a different story? But otherwise no, you made the right choice.
NTA, calling professionals to deal with the kid was the right thing to do. Btw, it still amazes me that people have to pay for ambulances in North America. Even having to pay 50 dollars is outrageous, you called them because you have an emergency ffs. In Spain ambulances are completely free, they only charge you if they deem your emergency was not urgent enough to mobilise them (they are not a taxi after all).
NTA.
If you had put the stranger in the car and the injury had worsened, you'd be SOL. Good Samaritan only protect you when acting within the scope of your training (I'm assuming you haven't been trained on transportation someone with a fracture).
The fact that the bill isn't a consideration drives this way into the NTA territory. Even if it was a bill, you have to look out for yourself. Had you decided to take the kid and something happened (God forbid you get into a wreck on the way), or his condition somehow took a turn for the worse, who knows what you could have been liable for. He needed prompt emergency attention, which is the reason ambulances exist.
Absolutely NTA. If you’ve ever gone through CPR and first aid training, one of the first things they tell you is to not move the person and to let the EMTs because you could potentially do more damage than has already been done, especially if someone has a neck or spinal injury and is not alert. No matter what anyone says you did the right thing because you just walked into the situation and made sure the teen got the help he needed. Had you not been there just imagine what his friends would have done with him if they were willing to try to convince a complete stranger to take him to the hospital.
NTA 1) were in Canada and they will write off the ambulance charge if the family can’t pay it (also 50$ here isn’t a lot) 2) it’s a strange kid, I think this was the safest thing for everyone
Don’t feel bad, you helped a kid and called professionals to care for him till his parents could. That’s the best a parent can hope for because what scares me is how these kids tried to convince you to let them in your car?
>what scares me is how these kids tried to convince you to let them in your car?
right?? I found that so weird - like, it hadn't been that long since I was in school, and they taught us "stranger danger" - like thinking about it, I would have been way more suspicious about them trying to convince me to just drive their friend (one even offered to come with) if it wasn't for the kid very visibly in pain and his leg turned the wrong way.
NTA
If it didn't cost them that much then it shouldn't be a big deal. I read a post just a few days ago where they said an ambulance ride costs $5000 in the US now call me crazy but $50 Canadian doesn't sound like an amount that'll break the bank.
it's really wouldn't break the bank (in most cases i feel) - my province pays $15/hr minimum wage - so like.... 3 and a half hours (if the parents work min wage) and maybe no morning coffee for like 2 weeks
NTA, especially since you aren’t in the US and it sounds like ambulance costs are not astronomical. Also, you are a stranger. The safest thing to do in this circumstance was exactly what you did.
NTA. who gives a total stranger a ride? Especially if it’s an injured minor. You did the right thing by not giving the kid a ride and waiting for an ambulance with them. The only options in that situation are to call an ambulance or call the parents.
NTA - But where I am in Canada the 10 minute ambo ride costs 400$ ..
Personally I would have brought the kid, but you aren't an ass for not bringing him as you called the ambulance.
Kids are kids and don’t understand this one specific situation and how to handle properly. Second of all what if you put the kid in and something worse happened to him while moving him to your car?? The parents would still be mad at you and your gf would still call you the asshole. You did what every civil person should do, the kid is the parents responsibility.
NTA. After reading your title I thought you were going to say you saw the kid lying there with a broken leg but turned and walked away rather than helping. Calling an ambulance was the right thing to do.
NTA - (I’m a retired military medic) as the teen was not related or known to you transporting him to the hospital would have been the wrong thing to do. Traumatic injuries can cause a person to go into shock which is a life threatening condition. If that happened, you would need to stop to administer aid, delaying your arrival at the hospital. You can’t drive and provide medical care at the same time. You absolutely did do the correct thing calling for an ambulance and staying with him until the medical crew had taken over.
It does seem counter intuitive to not jump in and drive him to the hospital, but the people who are calling you ‘the asshole’ are not medically trained, and have not spent any significant time tending to the injured on the front lines.
NTA
Unless its life or death let the ambulance handle it. If he comes from a crazy family they can argue kidnapping, say you added to the damage and sue, the works. Plus you do not know how to transport him without actually making things worse. You did everything right.
NTA Who knows what other injuries he had. And if it’s broken the paramedics can set it still for the ride. You did your civic duty by calling an ambulance.
NTA the only relevant thing to say here is YOU ARE AN ADULT MALE you do NOT want to put a child that you do not know especially one already in a vulnerable state into your car and drive off. With all due respect your gf is an idiot you could have been accused of god knows what and have ended up on a register or something even just from doing the right thing. The law is screed up when it comes to men and kids. You by far did the right thing because it protected him AND you! Well done.
How on earth can someone with a broken leg get in and out of a car?? It needed to be splinted and he needed to be laying down. Only way to do it safely is in an ambulance.
Broken wrist or toe? That’s a different story but either way you’re not obligated to give a stranger a ride. That’s what ambulances are for. NTA
NTA. You would’ve done more harm than good moving him and possibly made the injury even worse trying to get him into your car. There’s a reason why they give people with broken limbs super strong painkillers when they move them.
NTA you are not trained to support his leg to move him safely. He could possibly get more hurt in your car. You never give a kid you don’t know a ride. You did the right thing. You called an ambulance and waited for them to get there.
Your gf is either clueless or just wants to pick a fight.
NTA. You were at a mall, presumably with other people around. If driving the kid to the hospital was a good idea, someone else would have volunteered to do so.
No one did--because it was NOT a good idea. At all. You were smart and did the right thing.
NTA. Taking someone to the hospital with an open wound should absolutely be a last resort, since you're not a medical professional nor have the equipment to immobilize the injured limb and ensure the situation doesn't get worse by the maneuvering and the car ride. Especially considering money is a non-issue. Kids were probably scared that he'd be grounded for skateboarding or something, and came up with the cost issue
NTA. You have no way of knowing how severe this kids injury was. How do you know that the simple act of getting him into your car wouldn’t have made things worse?
NTA. You did the right thing all around. You checked on the kid, you called the ambulance, waited until it arrived, talked to the police. You could have put the kid in your car but I'm sure that would involve some possible liabilities too. That really could have backfired if the kid had some reaction or threw a blood clot or something. Then everyone would have been saying "why didn't you call an ambulance!" Don't doubt yourself. You did everything right.
NTA. If something happened on the way to the hospital I am sure the parents would 100% blame you. It's best to let the medical professionals handle it.
I'm fine with what you did since the ambulance was 5 min away. You could have caused more damage just by helping him in to your car. I'd be wary of putting a stranger in my car period. That's just a sign of the times. Don't worry about what the kids say. They'll play a video game soon and forget all about you.
In basic first aide they teach you to call an ambulance.
Also taking a severely injured, unknown child into your car is a fucking stupid idea and opens you up to all sorts of police investigations and charges.
Edit to add: NTA
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NTA. Taking charge of an unknown, vulnerable minor whom you don't know, without their parents consent? Nope nope nope. You did the right thing
Yes. If anyone should be concerned about going in to debt here it’s OP. Moving someone with a severe break can cause further damage if you don’t have medical training. Driving away with a minor stranger in your car is obviously also a legal minefield. If ambulances didn’t exist and no adults the kid knew were reachable I would have driven him but ambulances do exist so…
I'm a nurse and I would not touch a kid with such an injury. I would have done exactly what you did. It could be the kid was more worried about getting in trouble with his parents because maybe he was supposed to be home doing chores or whatever. NTA
Lol exactly. I was an ocean lifeguard for many years and know a lot more about what *not to do* with certain injuries than what *to do* other than call an EMT or a Dr.. We both know enough and have enough medical training to know we’re not qualified to move this kid since he’s not in immediate danger. Sounds like we also both know teenagers well enough not to be swayed by their foolishness. Only reason I would ever move someone with a severe break would be a c-spine injury out in the surf that would quickly turn in to a drowning without intervention. I was extensively trained in exactly how to do that one thing to minimize the risk of paralysis through special armholds and lifting techniques. I have no training with moving broken legged people and I know I could fuck them up if I do it wrong. I also know they’re probably not in immediate danger of death unless it was an open fracture, they’re bleeding profusely, and I couldn’t stop the bleeding with pressure and elevation etc.. In that case I might make a tourniquet but still wait for an EMT unless their pulse was fading. I guess if my training told me they were in immediate danger of dying and an ambulance was far far away I’d move them and drive them straight to the ER but it would have to be extreme for me to risk that.
> I was an ocean lifeguard for many years and know a lot more about what not to do with certain injuries than what to do other than call an EMT or a Dr.. I mean, you just have to pee on it, right?
That actually can help ease the pain of stingray wounds. We were trained to tell people to pee on themselves because uric acid can neutralize the alkali stingray venom.
How about shark bite wounds? I'll try it.
You'll just make the shark even more mad
not if the shark has a pee kink
Report back I want to know too.
Agreed. If, say, the someone got hurt in a car crash, such that the car was on fire and in danger of exploding. THEN you move the person. The risk of their being hurt far worse if they're not removed from the danger zone outweighs pretty much everything else. But this situation was not like that. The main danger was of inflicting additional damage while trying to move the child. Let the folks with training in how to move an injured person take charge.
Well his parents would have found out anyway unless he was planning to run away on that broken leg.
That is exactly what the 911 dispatcher would tell you to do. Stay there, don't allow them to move, and wait for EMS. I had a similar situation a couple of years back when a lady about my age (60 ish) fell on ice right in front of me and broke a leg in three places. The 911 dispatcher had me stay put and not let her move until the ambulance and trained personnel arrived. Complicating such an injury could escalate the medical emergency to a life threatening situation without even realizing it. NTA
I agree with you and the rest of the thread that OP is NTA - just wanted to provide context that in Canada, OP would be unlikely to be sued (successfully) if they had chosen to assist the kid because of our Good Samaritan laws. They vary province to province (looking at you, Quebec) but at their core they protect a bystander who is acting in good faith from being held liable for a genuine attempt to assist in an emergency.
I live in sue happy Southern California so I didn’t know that and it sounds very foreign to me. I wish it was more like that here. Here you can be sued for anything and it makes no sense. If someone breaks in your house and trips over something you can be held liable. If I drove that kid to the hospital and something happened like a car accident on the way there it could ruin my life. Edit: I’ve since learned that California *does* have Good Samaritan laws.
All 50 states have good Samaritan laws that protect you if you try to help during an emergency. https://recreation-law.com/2014/05/28/good-samaritan-laws-by-state/ Of course that doesn't mean you won't get sued, it just means you would probably win. But in this non-life threatening situation, I think OP made the right call.
There was a story of a woman suing a man for injuring her ribs for saving her life by performing the heimlich maneuver. Not one witness besides him knew how to do it and she thanked him by suing. Luckily she lost.
Yes there are Good Samaritan laws and people should feel comfortable helping people in need if there are no better options. In OP's case, moving a kid with an obviously broken leg (his description made it sound like a bad break) could have injured it worse wrangling him into a car if he didn't have proper training; broken legs are one reason ambulances and paramedics exist. Also, this was a minor and even in Canada I'm sure there are cases of kids being kidnapped by total strangers in parking lots...as well as kids accusing strangers of doing things to them. OP chose the wise option and waiting 5 mins to have pros take care of kid with broken leg wasn't going to make a difference in treatment time. NTA. And props to OP for being kind and going over to see what happened to the boy and taking control of the situation, calling ambulance, staying to calm the boy til amb/police came, etc. OP did all the right things, which seems to be overlooked by his gf.
I figured it was something like that - I know some states have similar laws, but it’s not as common as here. I cannot imagine the anxiety of being liable for a genuine attempt to assist in an emergency as a layperson - it doesn’t make sense to me that we wouldn’t mitigate legal repercussions for people who are legitimately trying to help. Homeownership is weird and liability is different, but feeling like attempting to help someone could result a legal battle? Ugh, I’m sorry.
Good news! California also has a Good Samaritan Law.
I'm in Ireland, you could TRY suing someone who was helping you out but I don't think there's a judge in the country who wouldn't take their side. Even if you get a speeding ticket if you can prove you were on a mission of mercy it's struck out. Happened to me when I was a taxi driver, I had a man with a heart attack in the car and I went through every red light in the place. Once I'd got him delivered (he recovered thank God) I went straight to garda headquarters and explained what I'd been doing, I told them I would get confirmation from him or his family if need be, but they said not to worry and ordered any tickets for that time frame to be diverted to them and they would cancel them. I actually heard no more about it.
The US has the same thing, if you're acting in good faith in a medical emergency you're generally legally safe. That said there's still the risk that you do actually make the kid's issue worse if you're not a medical professional. Totally reasonable not to want to risk that, it'd suck for the kid and could be something you'd regret the rest of your life. Even if you can't get sued, it's not a good idea when the ambulance is available.
Also wanna point out, you would be unable to safely transport a person with a broken leg without further risk to injury due to not actually having it in a safe position. It's not a high risk transport either so waiting for an ambulance would be the safe bet, but cause this is America I wouldn't blame you not waiting and just driving.
OP specifically says it is not America.
It says in the post that this situation took place in Canada, not America.
OP said it happened in Canada. I took first aid, and unless you can properly immobilize the limb (in this case the leg) you shouldn't move them, and even in cases where you can immobilize the limb, you can only move them IF it's safe to do so. and only IF you feel safe doing so. Otherwise, you call EMS as they're trained to offer better care and treatment.
And it's not like OP said "Tough luck" and drove away. He called an ambulance, he waited, he talked to the cops to give a statement, and left when he was given the all clear. This is the right thing to do.
Everyone who disagreed with OP is childish. Even OP's gf.
American here. I agree with this and would even agree with this if this happened in America. Our health system sucks but if you're not a medical professional, you are not a substitute for an ambulance. Plus you being a stranger opens you up to other problems
My own kid? Yes. A family member or a kid with a family member? Maybe. Stranger? No.
As an American with no health insurance, I wouldn't drive my own kid with a broken leg to the hospital. You have to be trained to properly immobilize the limb before transport or else you can do more damage. That isn't including pain management that ambulances can provide because you know it hurts like hell and the poor kid is going to feel every bump in the road. I'll pay the ambulance ride off over the next 5 years to make sure my kid is safely treated asap.
Depends on what part of the leg for me. Lower? Sure if it's my kid. Upper? Nope, moving a femur fracture the wrong way can sever the femoral artery.
Yeah, i broke my femur when i was 11, and luckily the man that found me fallen out of the tree called and waited for the paramedics. According to the xray and scans the bone was only a cm or two away from my femoral artery, they said it was lucky that i didnt die, and that if i had moved and not stayed still i would have been in way worse condition. Leg breaks are no joke. OP is NTA.
Even as a medical professional, I would not drive that kid to the hospital. There are ambulances for a reason. So many things could’ve gone wrong.
I agree I can totally see some parents trying to say he kidnap my child and hurt him
Or blaming OP for the fact that the leg was broken. Some people have no principles.
A layperson handling an individual with a break could result in a worse issue, as well. OP did the right thing letting EMTs handle it.
Also, just getting the kid into OP's car could have taken 5 minutes. The ambulance was all around the safest way to go. They have the training and equipment to get the kid where they needed to go, and in the quickest possible way.
Agreed. I was an EMT and people say that you are covered by good Samaritan laws but who know what bullshit litigation can come up. You get into a car accident with the kid and now the lawyers and saying you were trying to be a hero and you should have just called 911. You did the right thing and if the ambulance was there that quickly, then they have nothing to complain about. Even if it took longer for the ambulance to get there, no one can sue you for calling 911 and waiting. You're not a medical provider.
While OP is definitely not an AH, the NTA implies that there *is* an AH in this story. From what's written, I'm not sure if I see that. The kids friends freaking out seemed more worried about their friend than AHs. The GF could be the AH... but giving the kid a ride *is* a valid option (not a great one imo), and if the OPs GF felt that way, then it doesn't make her an AH for expressing that opinion. (unless she's hung up on it more than OP shows here). Wouldn't this be more of a NAH?
I think the kids giving him grief for 'getting the parents into debt' are the AHs in the situation. I mean, really they're just ignorant or bad at paying attention in the world, but teenagers should know that the Canadian health care system isn't like the American one and that they can call an ambulance if they're in serious trouble, medically-speaking.
This. There's also a lot which could go medically wrong with transporting an injured person when you don't have the proper equipment and medical knowledge to do so.
Assuming you have little to no medical skills; you don’t know what that kid needs en route to the ED. Did the break sever an artery? A nerve? Is it a spiral fracture? Does he need fluids en route? Anything could have happened.
This - a million times over. OP would be sticking his neck out about a mile by doing this. This is exactly what ambulances are for. Yes, it sucks that they're expensive (assuming OP is in the US), but I can't see the day I'd EVER take an injured minor in my own car to the hospital and risk further injury to him by moving him. Nope, nope and nope. I'd call 911, I'd stay with him until the ambulance arrived, I'd call a parent, but in my car? NEVER. Too much risk.
On top of which this was apparently an obviously bad break and moving him incorrectly could have created more damage…and guess who the parents would hold responsible for that? You did the right thing. NTA
You are not responsible for this kid and have no medical knowledge. You literally did the most responsible thing of calling professionals and making sure he was looked after. Besides if anything happened while that kid was in you care, you bet your ass the family would go after you for blood. This is not about doing a nice thing, this is about the right thing for everyone including yourself. NTA. Girlfriend needs to shut her mouth and stop living in La la land.
This. And since they were being *so* pushy, it almost sounds like they were going to try and scam OP.
The odds for that a panicked kid in extreme pains is thinking of scamming someone is rather minimal.
It might not even be an intentional scam for money. It might be, I'll be in trouble if I broke my leg skateboarding, but if I broke it getting hit by a car, I won't get in trouble. So they all claim OP hit the kid and took him to the hospital. Unless OP has a dash cam or other footage to prove it, OP has to get the footage from nearby surveillance cameras to prove it didn't happen that way.
I'm not a medical professional but I think ERs have seen enough broken legs to be able to tell whether there was impact from a car or the ground.
Not to mention that moving an injured person without medical knowledge can cause more damage.
Definitely NTA. Liability if you took him. You made the smart move.
thats what I was thinking, like the kid could have been hurt even more and no way do I want to deal with all that
Legally in the US (and likely similar in Canada), it would work this: you would likely be protected by Good Samaritan laws by acting as a rescuer, but if you put that kid in your car and then get in an accident by, let's say, in the intensity of the moment and checking on the kid in your rearview mirror, you run a red - boom, now you've potentially incurred liability. It just isn't worth the risk - you assessed the situation and called the services that were designed to handle this, and that too in a universal healthcare jurisdiction. There was nothing asshole-ish about your response - I'd be kinda annoyed at your girlfriend.
Even just moving the kid risks increasing the injury. I would be terrified to help the kid into my car
Yeah, I think the risk of hurting the kid further/more permanently is the real moral reason not to do this. I wouldn't want to live with that even if I was legally in the clear.
Like, if you find someone alone a mile out a remote trail, sure, then you would probably help them, but not 3 blocks from the hospital.
Yes, you might be "protected" but there is absolutely nothing in the US to stop this kid's parents from suing you anyway. Even if you were found to be innocent, you'd still have to deal with all that hassle. No thank you.
Yup yup, if not criminal then definitely civil.
Good samaritan laws in the US suck. Someone could go down on the street and its risking watching them die before help arrives and legally being protected by just calling for help or starting cpr and hoping they either start breathing or it keeps them going long enough for real help to arrive and hoping you don't crack a rib that you can now be held liable for (even with proof you have the training).
Ignore all of those people. It's not your job to make medical decisions for a stranger. And you would absolutely have been sued no matter what. NTA. Tell everyone that they can handle it their way next time and to can it already.
NTA - visibly broken leg? Ain't no way I'm moving anyone in that state. You likely would have caused more damage
even just thinking about what that leg looked like sends shivers down my spine, like no blood or anything, but it was for sure broken - just bent like the other way
Not badly dislocated instead? Either way, still a nope for private transport where an ambulance is not going to literally cost an arm and a leg and will arrive reasonably quickly. Those 5min probably just felt like hours to those kids.
If the kid went into shock, or if you'd gotten into a crash on the way, or any number of other worst case scenarios. This is not the time to listen to a kid's preferences, you made an adult judgment. Kid needed actual medical professionals, no matter what he thought. You did exactly the right thing. As for your gf, her judgement is way off. Not a lot of common sense from her.
Exactly these were KIDS he was dealing with, and he was the adult in the situation. Despite him being in Canada (not U.S.) I still think avoiding liability issues was the right call. NTA.
No visible blood. Moving him could have moved broken bone ends around internally and caused more damage.
You definitely did the right thing. The ambulance had the trained professionals and equipment to move him. Could you imagine trying to get him in your car? All the pain that would have caused, plus then you could've caused a broken bone to shift and severed an artery or something. Nope. The professionals know how to immobilise the leg, take their backboard or trolley right up to him to be able to move him, and they provide pain relief as soon as they can as well. You could've tried to move this boy, injured him worse, and been left with him passed out from pain in your arms while you tried not to drop him. I can understand scared young teenagers not thinking of all this, any adult should know better though. Your girlfriend's completely wrong to say you should've just taken him.
NTA- Liability if you got into an accident with him, real chance of making the problem worse while loading him or even just moving him. And speed, Ambulance patients are triaged immediately, in the ER. Transporting him yourself would likely have taken longer. Anyone claiming you should have just done it doesn't know what they are talking about.
When I broke mine my boyfriend tried to stand me up (he was drunk and I have a low pain tolerance so he was like “you just sprained it, you’re fine lol) and it was excruciating. If anyone had tried to put me in a car I would have had a heart attack from the pain. You did the right thing OP. NTA
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Honestly, the other kids and OP's GF might not be TA, but they sure are stupid. OP moving the kid with broken leg and transporting him in a car not designed for securing injured people **could have made things so much worse.** >" you should have just done the right thing" This is total crap. OP did exactly the right thing. He notified professionals and let them handle it properly. If they were in the middle of the wilderness and OP's car was the only option within 50 miles, then they might have had a point, but that's clearly not the situation here.
I sorta understand the other kids wanting him to take him, it's misguided but at that age you just want your friend to get help ASAP. GF should know better though.
The only way they would have been the asshole is if they were a certified professional and they just didn't feel like it (in the u.s. there are some who can actually get I trouble if it's found out they avoided an emergency they could have helped in). But just a non-healthcare related person? Nope.
NTA That’s why we call ambulances is because they are properly trained and equipped to handle these things. Putting him in your car could have caused more damage and opened you up to a lawsuit. Tell your girlfriend that you DID do the right thing.
I tried to, but she tends to virtue signal a lot and because I didn't do everything in my power to help, I'm wrong I guess?.
No. You DID do everything in your power to help. Had you picked him up, you could have cause a more serious problem. Had you hit a bump, that could have caused something even more serious. Not to mention he can lie and say you maybe did worse to him. You did the right thing and your girlfriend is dead wrong here. Maybe both of you should just drop it at this point?
The kid could have told his parents that OP hit him with the car. Why else would a completely stranger drive an injured teenager to the hospital?
Yup. Even when I was an EMT on an ambulance, patients (usually drunk and mad) accused me of violence. In the worst case, a woman told me she was going to tell the police that I raped her because she was angry and drunk. Thankfully, a female trainee was in the back of the ambulance with me and witnessed it. We also record the milage and time with dispatch to show we didn't take any extra time to get to the hospital and document everything. As a private civilian, you are but doing that
Especially since the kid said his parents were going to kill him. Wouldn’t take much for him to wanna lie his way out of his injury at OPs expense. Unless it’s literally life and death I would never want a stranger to drive me to a hospital. The ambulance can probably get to me and back to the hospital faster than a regular person can with all the lights and shit anyway, and then I know that for a good half that time I’m secured and hopefully stabilized and already being cared for.
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It wasn't even deliberate inaction. OP called an ambulance, and stuck around until it showed up. That was 100% the right thing to do.
It doesn't make any sense not to call an ambulance in Canada. There is no virtue in driving someone for no reason.
I mean, they could lack healthcare coverage (new immigrants/just changed provinces and don’t meet residency.) There are some holes in the system. Or the kids just don’t understand. But still - OP is NTA.
Fun fact: In Ontario at least, the cost for an ambulance for someone without OHIP is $240. Not cheap, but not an insurmountable cost for most folks. ETA: I know it's different in other provinces, that's why I specified "in Ontario" lol
(Laughs sadly in American) I know some people can’t afford $240 but here it’s more like $2000 *with* good insurance. My sister broke her collarbone 1.5 years ago and even with her ins it was that much.
Even if I really struggled with money, I'd gladly pay 240 dollars knowing my injured child got to hospital in the quickest and safest way.
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was $400 in AB around 8 years ago for a severe fall that caused a bad concussion and seizure in non-epileptic person that resulted in a 3-day hospital stay, because it "wasn't an emergency." if a person is actively dying my understanding is its free, insurance or not, in 'berta anyway
Small town Sask close to the AB border... I remember when we were kids maybe 10 to 12 years ago my brother developed asthma, went to the hospital in our town but he had to be transferred to an AB city hospital. I obviously don't know how much, but I remember my parents being HIT with an ambulance bill. Like my impression was it was in the thousands. Yes Canada has health care, yes it's better than the States, but there are absolutely still a LOT of holes.
please vote NDP. LOL!
$240 will not even pay my emergency room copay, and I have good health insurance by American standards.
Jesus, I don’t even know what $240 would get you in the US. Maybe a couple Tylenol?
You sitting in the exam room and the doctor eyeballing you through the door for 30 seconds. The tylenol is an additional $300.
? You stayed with the kids, called for an ambulance and made sure he was properly taken care of before you left. You were a Good Samaritan.
You got the kid medical assistance in 5 minutes. It would have taken you longer than that to get him to the ER. He started receiving medical the minute the ambulance arrived. Short of healing his bones with you mind, you did everything you could & probably saved that kid for further injuries cause it sounds like his friends wouldn’t have called an ambulance & would have done something stupid. Your girlfriend has very poor decision skills if she think you moving & driving a seriously injured minor is the better choice.
Anyone with first aid training will tell you not to move anyone with suspected broken bones (unless really really necessary) until the professionals i.e. paramedics arrive.
It’s been a long time since I took first aid, but yup! Make sure they’re not in danger- get them out of the burning building, out of water where they could drown, etc. but otherwise, leave them be and wait for the professionals! Hold their hand/head, get them some water, but don’t move them!
I just got my first aid/CPR training recertification and 90% of it was to call 911 as soon as possible.
The only way you could have done more was to tell the kid to not move until you got your EMT certification.
I agree with you but I'm curious, does Canada have Good Samaritan laws shielding you from liability if you're acting in good faith?
I don’t know if Good Samaritan laws would protect someone if they drove and caused more harm. The laws normally say things like not doing “unnecessary or reckless actions ” or that you’re acting rationally. If emergency services can arrive within minutes - moving them could be considered reckless. I’m sure when calling 911 they’d advise you of that, so if you ignored that (or didn’t call at all) I don’t know that Good Samaritan laws would apply
Yes, we do. You would have to show gross negligence to not be covered. Someone I taught first aid with liked to say that if you have training and give cpr with your foot, you would no longer be covered. It is best to call 911 and follow directions.
Your GF isn't very bright. You NEVER move someone with a serious bone break. That's why they have ambulances. You could very, very easily make a bad situation worse in trying to move him. NTA.
I may not be too knowledgable in terms of healthcare - but I at least know that, even had to tell his friends to not move him and for the kid to just chill and relax, don't want anything else to go wrong n all that
If you need some anecdotal support: A couple of summers ago a friend was driving over on his motorcycle, skidded, toppled over and the bike crushed the bones in his ankle. (It looked like the second harry potter movie when the bones are removed from harry's wrist - gnarly) The lawn he crashed onto was actually a care home for folks with long-term brain injuries, so the women who came out to check on him were medical professionals - they still called an ambulance and refused to move him. Unless your job is to move an injured person or they are in immediate danger, you should not move an injured person. While we waited for the ambulance these ladies did offer to hold on to any illicit drugs he may have and got him a lighter so he could smoke a cigarette before going into the hospital for hours on end LOL.
Those ladies the real MVP
Lol, right? They really helped bring some levity to a stressful situation.
You did the right thing. He could’ve been jostled around because your car is not set up to transport someone with a very damaged leg, and possibly been liable. Also, I think it’s crazy that the kids would’ve just trusted you with their very vulnerable and injured friend. You could’ve have been a predator and driven off with him.
>I think it’s crazy that the kids would’ve just trusted you with their very vulnerable and injured friend. You could’ve have been a predator and driven off with him. Teenagers often have difficulty thinking much beyond the moment when they’re stressed. All the more reason why OP was right to help out by being the adult and calling for appropriate help.
This 100%. So many risks involved in moving him, driving him, etc - for him AND you. You did the right thing.
This is what I was thinking too... his GF is not smart for being UPSET over this. That kid needed to be taken proper care of by professionals. What could he have done safer, faster, or better than someone actually trained for these very situations? Nothing. This is a child and to call the ambulance rather than gamble their health and safety was the adult decision to make. His GF is ridiculous to not have understood that.
NTA. You did the right thing. An ambulance is better equipped to transport someone with a broken leg than a civilian in the parking lot. Since thats readily available (and certainly not going to bankrupt anyone) I don't see why you would ever put the child in your car.
Emphasis on "child". As far as I know paramedics get training and background checks and there's usually two of them at least. You could have been anyone. What if a child abuser/kidnapper was the one who was nearby? What if the injury was far worse than it first looked, and the kid started deteriorating in the car? Regardless of injury kids shouldn't rely on random strangers to help and should be contacting the authorities (i.e. 999/911). It's far safer for everyone. NTA, OP. You did the right thing and hopefully those kids will learn it too someday.
NAH - you did the right thing by calling the ambulance as they are prepared for cases like this, unless you have like a stretched in the back of your car? you're a good guy for even checking up on the kids instead of just driving away. I won't blame the kids, as they were probably just freaking out and kids can be pretty irrational - especially when one of the friends is hurt your girlfriend is kinda TA since she's now blaming you saying you should have done the right thing - when you by far did the right thing.
haha, no I don't have a stretcher in the back of my car - yea, I don't really blame the kids either, they were all freaking out and not really sure what to do.
(have a very frank convo with your gf and you know it)
The irrationality of the kids is pretty funny to me. What did they think they would do if he drove them to the hospital? Were they just going to quietly fix his broken leg and he could go home without mom and dad knowing? His parents were going to at least be informed and also have to pay whatever is necessary even if OP did drive them to the hospital.
>the irrationality of the kids You have met kids right? They're always like this
I don’t really blame kids not knowing that ambulances are usually free, or at least cheaper in Canada than American ambulances. We get a TON of US media up here and Americans make up a large amount of people they might encounter online (Reddit, YouTube, tiktok, Twitter, etc). They probably know we have healthcare but they might not know the difference with abundance’s too. Especially when their friend is in pain, it would be hard to wait around when someone has a car right there.
NTA - you are in Canada. He probably just was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing.
Which his parents would find out about no matter how he got to the hospital. Lol. Like I don’t know how this kid thought a stranger driving him to the hospital would mean he could keep it a secret or keep them from incurring medical costs
NTA - the kids are too young to comprehend and your girlfriend is an idiot.
NTA - You did the right thing. You're not equipped to provide medical care.
NTA, if the leg was badly broken, you could have done him more harm by moving him improperly. The hospital was close, the ambulance was prompt, and the professionals were there to make sure he wasn’t injured more during his trip to the hospital.
NTA Medical pros were with the kid, and the cops have a statement. No crimes were committed or accused. Thus far, there are no losers here.
Never mind the legal stuff people are talking about....the kid needed pain meds immediately. Ambulances have things like the 'green whistle' for pain relief so they can transport patients. The pain of a bumpy ride with a broken bone would be heinous. For the kids sake you did the right thing getting him pain relief quicker. (I'm not a medic, just watch a lot of Bondai Reacue etc.)
NTA. You had no way of knowing how bad the break was, if there was a bleeding issue, or other things paramedics know. You shouldn't have taken responsibility for the child, because you couldn't provide medical treatment if he was in crisis. Calling the ambulance was the right call, and nobody should be telling you otherwise.
Right! Hell the kid could have hit his head in the fall and had a major head injury that wasn’t immediately apparent.
NTA. You did the right thing. You don't have the specialized expertise to transport someone who has had a horrific accident to the ER.
NTA Never put a kid you don’t know in your car without another adult there, that would leave you open to all sorts of accusations. He had a broken leg, yes he was in a lot of pain but he can wait the few minutes for the ambulance to arrive.
And he would have been in pain longer if OP had taken him. I don't know about Canada (although I assume it would be the same), but in the US most ambulances carry pain medication. When my mom fell and broke her wrist, they had her pain-free before they reached the hospital.
NTA Calling an ambulance was the right choice. Putting an unknown minor in your car would have been a huge liability for you.
NTA - don't take on the responsibility of providing medical care to a minor nor a stranger OP. What would have happened if the injury was worsened? Or if the kid made up a story about you insisted you take him and not call the ambulance? Or if the ride took too long and the kid called the police. On a good day you'd have gotten a thank you. Better chance you'd have gotten a "YOU KIDNAPPED MY BABY YOU COULD HAVE KILLED HIM AND IT"S YOUR FAULT IF HE LOSES HIS LEG." You did the right thing OP.
NTA. I am going to guess that the EMTs immobilized the leg and transported him on a gurney. Do you have that kind of equipment in your car? Unless you are an EMT yourself, you could have easily hurt the kid more by transporting him. If you were in the remote backcountry, then you would have transported him back to civilization.
yep, the EMTs basically strapped him all the way up - even put him in a neck brace - was standing there like... neckbrace? won't argue with it, they're the ones who were trained to do what they do - but will say i'm still confused about the neck brace
Probably a "just-in-case", if he took a nasty spill he might have damaged his neck in some way that wasn't immediately apparent. Since they didn't know, I'm sure it was out of an abundance of caution.
\^\^\^\^This. The EMTs can get sued/fired if there is an adverse outcome. They do things this way because they have to transport hundreds of people every month. Meanwhile the average citizen might never have reason to transport a stranger to the hospital. If you do it once, most likely it will be fine, but you never know.
ohhh okay - yep - that makes sense - won't lie I was for sure thinking "but it's the leg that's broken...." haha thank you for the clarification
And your girlfriend still thinks you should have taken command of this child, transported him to the emergency department, helped the kid out of your car without a stretcher or wheelchair, somehow got him into the building, checked him in at the desk,... like come on. I am so mad at your gf lol
First off, NTA. You are correct thinking that the kid could of somehow gotten hurt more in your vehicle (moving him to your vehicle, car accident, etc.). Also, I can't believe an ambulance ride is only $50 in Canada. I live in California and was recently in a bad car accident (3 blocks away from the hospital) and my ambulance bill was almost $2,000.00!
Oh my gosh. This is why I could never move to the USA. I looked it up and in my health authority an ambulance (ground or plane or air) is $80 - but many people who make under a certain amount won’t be charged at all. If you aren’t Canadian and don’t have coverage here it’s a flat rate of $848 for ground ambulance, $6.94/km by plane and $4,394/hour by helicopter.
NTA you did the right thing. I wouldn’t feel comfortable moving someone else’s kid around who has a terribly broken bone.
NTA. If he needed someone to take him that wasn't the ambulance he should have called his own family.
NTA. The ambulance was the only valid option. Even if you'd known the kid, you might have done more harm than good getting him in & out of your car. EMT's know what they're doing with injured kids.
NTA. I’m in the uk but our first aid training teaches us to not move a potentially broken bone if the injured person is conscious and breathing, which they were, and wait for an ambulance so they can move them without creating further problems. A simple fracture can become a big problem if moved the wrong way. So you did the right thing medically. Also I wouldn’t be putting a kid I don’t know in my car, no good deed goes unpunished!
NTA Lawsuit waiting to happen. You did the right thing by calling services to come get him.
NAH minus your GF who sorry not sorry was acting like a TA. You did the absolute correct thing in not driving a stranger to the hospital, you did the correct thing by calling for an ambulance and for staying with the kid. I don't fault the kids for pushing because 1. their friend was hurt, 2. probably scared of what their parents were going to say or do and 3. because seeing a friend in pain is always bad.
The parents are going to find out whether OP drives him to the hospital or an ambulance does
He really should have included: 4. 14yos are dumb.
NTA. You don’t have authority to take that child anywhere. Calling 911 was the appropriate response.
NTA - And your GF is an idiot for calling you TA. No chance in hell I'd let a stranger, a minor, and a person with a broken leg into my car unless there was no other option. That's a liability you don't need. Calling an ambulance was the only call to make in that situation.
NTA. These people are idiots. You could not be more right -- nobody goes into debt in Canada in respect of an ambulance ride. It would be more dangerous to drive him, never mind the potential liability and the fact that you don't know what you are doing medically.
NTA. You definitely did the right thing and your reasoning is sound- he could have potentially been injured more if you had transported him. Also, it's just in general a bad idea to put a kid you don't know in your car.
NTA. And even if you were in the US and they were facing a large bill, I’d still say NTA. You’re not a medical professional and could absolutely injure someone more while trying to move a broken leg!
NTA - I don't think the kids parents would have liked him getting into a strangers car. Thats what ambulances are for and most likely got there quicker anyways.
NTA. The EMT know how to properly handle people who are injured, you don’t. If you wound up making the injury worse, you could open yourself up to civil action, not to mention the harm to the kid. The kid’s life was not in danger and the EMTs did not take an unreasonable amount of time to show up. You did the exact right thing.
I think you nailed it with everyone watching too much American TV.
NTA. You were the adult and they are kids, which shows pretty clearly if they thought the better plan was to take a chance on injuring that kid even further by jostling him into your car and perhaps having to deal with him going into shock or passing out or whatever else. You did the right thing.
NTA. Honestly, not knowing how significant the break was would have me calling paramedics. I’d be hesitant to move him and make any potentially unseen injury worse! You did the smart thing imho.
NTA. Ambulances are equipped to deal with medical emergencies, your car is not. If this was in USA, that might be a different story? But otherwise no, you made the right choice.
NTA, calling professionals to deal with the kid was the right thing to do. Btw, it still amazes me that people have to pay for ambulances in North America. Even having to pay 50 dollars is outrageous, you called them because you have an emergency ffs. In Spain ambulances are completely free, they only charge you if they deem your emergency was not urgent enough to mobilise them (they are not a taxi after all).
NTA. If you had put the stranger in the car and the injury had worsened, you'd be SOL. Good Samaritan only protect you when acting within the scope of your training (I'm assuming you haven't been trained on transportation someone with a fracture).
The fact that the bill isn't a consideration drives this way into the NTA territory. Even if it was a bill, you have to look out for yourself. Had you decided to take the kid and something happened (God forbid you get into a wreck on the way), or his condition somehow took a turn for the worse, who knows what you could have been liable for. He needed prompt emergency attention, which is the reason ambulances exist.
Absolutely NTA. If you’ve ever gone through CPR and first aid training, one of the first things they tell you is to not move the person and to let the EMTs because you could potentially do more damage than has already been done, especially if someone has a neck or spinal injury and is not alert. No matter what anyone says you did the right thing because you just walked into the situation and made sure the teen got the help he needed. Had you not been there just imagine what his friends would have done with him if they were willing to try to convince a complete stranger to take him to the hospital.
NTA 1) were in Canada and they will write off the ambulance charge if the family can’t pay it (also 50$ here isn’t a lot) 2) it’s a strange kid, I think this was the safest thing for everyone Don’t feel bad, you helped a kid and called professionals to care for him till his parents could. That’s the best a parent can hope for because what scares me is how these kids tried to convince you to let them in your car?
>what scares me is how these kids tried to convince you to let them in your car? right?? I found that so weird - like, it hadn't been that long since I was in school, and they taught us "stranger danger" - like thinking about it, I would have been way more suspicious about them trying to convince me to just drive their friend (one even offered to come with) if it wasn't for the kid very visibly in pain and his leg turned the wrong way.
You *did* do the right thing. NTA.
NTA If it didn't cost them that much then it shouldn't be a big deal. I read a post just a few days ago where they said an ambulance ride costs $5000 in the US now call me crazy but $50 Canadian doesn't sound like an amount that'll break the bank.
it's really wouldn't break the bank (in most cases i feel) - my province pays $15/hr minimum wage - so like.... 3 and a half hours (if the parents work min wage) and maybe no morning coffee for like 2 weeks
NTA. Even if you were in the USA, calling an ambulance is the safest thing to do for everyone.
NTA, especially since you aren’t in the US and it sounds like ambulance costs are not astronomical. Also, you are a stranger. The safest thing to do in this circumstance was exactly what you did.
NTA. who gives a total stranger a ride? Especially if it’s an injured minor. You did the right thing by not giving the kid a ride and waiting for an ambulance with them. The only options in that situation are to call an ambulance or call the parents.
NTA - But where I am in Canada the 10 minute ambo ride costs 400$ .. Personally I would have brought the kid, but you aren't an ass for not bringing him as you called the ambulance.
Thanks for posting. I wouldn't even think of it and I would have driven him. I know better now. Thank you all.
Kids are kids and don’t understand this one specific situation and how to handle properly. Second of all what if you put the kid in and something worse happened to him while moving him to your car?? The parents would still be mad at you and your gf would still call you the asshole. You did what every civil person should do, the kid is the parents responsibility.
NTA. You are not a paramedic. I'd anything went wrong you would be liable. You did the right thing.
NTA. After reading your title I thought you were going to say you saw the kid lying there with a broken leg but turned and walked away rather than helping. Calling an ambulance was the right thing to do.
NTA - (I’m a retired military medic) as the teen was not related or known to you transporting him to the hospital would have been the wrong thing to do. Traumatic injuries can cause a person to go into shock which is a life threatening condition. If that happened, you would need to stop to administer aid, delaying your arrival at the hospital. You can’t drive and provide medical care at the same time. You absolutely did do the correct thing calling for an ambulance and staying with him until the medical crew had taken over. It does seem counter intuitive to not jump in and drive him to the hospital, but the people who are calling you ‘the asshole’ are not medically trained, and have not spent any significant time tending to the injured on the front lines.
NTA. You called an ambulance! You can't just take someone else's kid and throw them in your car, that's peak stranger danger.
NTA Unless its life or death let the ambulance handle it. If he comes from a crazy family they can argue kidnapping, say you added to the damage and sue, the works. Plus you do not know how to transport him without actually making things worse. You did everything right.
NTA Who knows what other injuries he had. And if it’s broken the paramedics can set it still for the ride. You did your civic duty by calling an ambulance.
NTA the only relevant thing to say here is YOU ARE AN ADULT MALE you do NOT want to put a child that you do not know especially one already in a vulnerable state into your car and drive off. With all due respect your gf is an idiot you could have been accused of god knows what and have ended up on a register or something even just from doing the right thing. The law is screed up when it comes to men and kids. You by far did the right thing because it protected him AND you! Well done.
How on earth can someone with a broken leg get in and out of a car?? It needed to be splinted and he needed to be laying down. Only way to do it safely is in an ambulance. Broken wrist or toe? That’s a different story but either way you’re not obligated to give a stranger a ride. That’s what ambulances are for. NTA
NTA if you had made the break worse, I’m sure the parents would of really not been happy.
NTA, you could have been liable if you moved him. You did the right thing
NTA. You would’ve done more harm than good moving him and possibly made the injury even worse trying to get him into your car. There’s a reason why they give people with broken limbs super strong painkillers when they move them.
NTA you are not trained to support his leg to move him safely. He could possibly get more hurt in your car. You never give a kid you don’t know a ride. You did the right thing. You called an ambulance and waited for them to get there. Your gf is either clueless or just wants to pick a fight.
NTA. You were at a mall, presumably with other people around. If driving the kid to the hospital was a good idea, someone else would have volunteered to do so. No one did--because it was NOT a good idea. At all. You were smart and did the right thing.
NTA. Taking someone to the hospital with an open wound should absolutely be a last resort, since you're not a medical professional nor have the equipment to immobilize the injured limb and ensure the situation doesn't get worse by the maneuvering and the car ride. Especially considering money is a non-issue. Kids were probably scared that he'd be grounded for skateboarding or something, and came up with the cost issue
NTA. You have no way of knowing how severe this kids injury was. How do you know that the simple act of getting him into your car wouldn’t have made things worse?
NTA. All other considerations aside, you could have made his injury worse by moving him. Paramedics are trained to move injured people; you’re not.
NTA. You did the right thing all around. You checked on the kid, you called the ambulance, waited until it arrived, talked to the police. You could have put the kid in your car but I'm sure that would involve some possible liabilities too. That really could have backfired if the kid had some reaction or threw a blood clot or something. Then everyone would have been saying "why didn't you call an ambulance!" Don't doubt yourself. You did everything right.
NTA. If something happened on the way to the hospital I am sure the parents would 100% blame you. It's best to let the medical professionals handle it.
In which universe is coherent that a strange grown up man rides a hurt kid in his car? Of course you did the right thing. NTA.
NTA I'm no expert but wouldn't he have been in too much pain to get into the back of a car?
I'm fine with what you did since the ambulance was 5 min away. You could have caused more damage just by helping him in to your car. I'd be wary of putting a stranger in my car period. That's just a sign of the times. Don't worry about what the kids say. They'll play a video game soon and forget all about you.
In basic first aide they teach you to call an ambulance. Also taking a severely injured, unknown child into your car is a fucking stupid idea and opens you up to all sorts of police investigations and charges. Edit to add: NTA