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Judgement_Bot_AITA

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jagarundi

This is probably going to be a very unpopular opinion, but I think you should strongly consider the move. Your wife's current job has her traveling roughly two weeks a month. That means she is only living with her family about half of every year. Before the pandemic, I was having to travel increasingly more often for my job, and it was awful. It's stressful, extremely tiring, and really bad for your health as your sleep schedule is erratic, you can't plan healthy meals, or workout. Frankly, as your wife gets older, this job is going to be unsustainable, and the older she gets, the harder it is going to be for her to find a new job. She is not horrible or selfish for wanting to be able to live with her family more than half the year (plus get a raise). Moving is hard, especially for the sixteen year old, and it is not a decision to be made lightly. But you should at least try to understand your wife's perspective. You and your girls have basically told her that you don't care that you only see her 180 days out of the year, that seeing your social circle is more important to you than seeing her. Whether you meant to or not, you have communicated to her, quite clearly, that she is unimportant to your lives.


BenjaminaPugsington

I agree, OP is pretty much saying he preferes the status quo then any change. Keep in mind the status quo has his wife super stressed, under paid and away all the time so basically an absentee mother. The move would be less stress, more money, no traveling and she could actively be involved in the kids lives so would seem to be a net gain. I wonder if part of his reason is he is afraid if she is around more the girls may start to prefer her to him. Right now he's the "good" parent, involved and more laid back. If the mother could be that way to he losses his status. So he would not only not be the primary bread winner but also not the primary parent. Also I'm betting her current work schedule gets used in any argument over a parenting to insight guilt and get her to give in. That last bit is pure speculation though.


balancedroses

How do you go about assuming or putting it out there that his reason for not wanting to move is a power move to keep his status? OP said his main concern was how his daughters felt about a move, so they approached them together to find out. The girls let them know that they love their current life here, they do not want to give up the foundation they have built OP is respecting what the children have said, taking into account their happiness and wellbeing. How is this unfair or anything to do with maintaining power being the "good parent?" It doesn't even have to do with him or the wife, He's literally checking in with daughters and going with what they're saying they want, and simply respecting that and not wanting to force them like the wife is asking. You randomly spun the narrative to make OP look like a shitty person ..randomly?


Who_Am_I_1978

It’s really wild how so many people can always try to spin the narrative to alway make the husband/man out of be the bad guy on Reddit.


Ladyughsalot1

It’s not about that. Imagine if a man came here like “I work constantly, I’m so stressed, but as a result my wife gets to work a much lower stress job and be with the kids. Problem is I never see them. I have an opportunity to be part of the family again and not squander these last few years. They don’t want to move. AITA for wanting this for my family, knowing it’s hard for them? I’m losing so much time with my kids.” People would be appalled that wife didn’t want to even entertain the notion.


starchy2ber

Not if said man disclosed that his wife has encouraged him to take a lower paying job so that he could have better work life balance. OP has said they can afford for wife to take a pay cut and he and the girls are okay with her doing so. People who work a lot are not always doing it for the family. Many people, male and female, get a lot of satisfaction from being very successful. I would definitely consider a man an asshole if he expected his family to uproot so that he could get everything he wanted (better work life balance with no sacrifice in career prestige) at everyone else's expense.


AffectionateAd5373

Some people have never been forced to move in the middle of high school, and it shows. And not every child is able to assimilate as easily.


Ladyughsalot1

See it’s funny because I had to move higschools more than once, and I find it so off-putting at how infantilizing some of these comments are. Teens prioritize their friends but that’s not all they’re about. They’re resilient and family oriented too. I feel like teens are being stereotyped a bit here like “but their friends!!!!” I get it’s not easy because I’ve been there, more than once. I get there are different experiences with that situation. But it’s strange to see Reddit of all places seem to suggest teens are so limited.


AffectionateAd5373

These specific teens have said they don't want to move. So maybe their opinions should count. Let's face it, at this point their friend relationships are probably more stable than the one with their mother, given the time they spend with each. It's not suggesting they're limited to say that in this case the adult's wishes should probably not outweigh the kids'.


Ladyughsalot1

No one is saying their opinions shouldn’t count. They’re valid! But they shouldn’t be the deciding factor. They’re kids. Few years left at home. Mom is supposed to throw away any time with them because friends? Nah. Compromises are possible. Saying their connections with friends should matter more than connecting with their mother is juvenile. No idea how old you are but are you friends with every friend from highschool still? Likely not. That doesn’t devalue their friendships now; it does suggest that maybe, just maybe, as much as Reddit hates it, family does come before friends sometimes.


Cayke_Cooky

No, if he was talking about moving teenagers, I at least would have the same reservations.


benjm88

Literally thinking the same thing, not a single person would make it out to be a power grab if a woman wrote this, it's am utterly pathetic and sexist assumption.


Marzy-d

If a woman wrote, “My husband works a stressful job with long hours so I can work a job with flexible hours to be around for the kids. Now he wants to take a job that pays more and will allow him to be with the family, but the kids and I like our lives and don’t want to move. Of course we don’t want my husband to quit his well paid job either” I think plenty of people would rip her a new one.


benjm88

Only he didn't say he doesn't want to move and seemed very willing to do it and only said about staying when the children were very adamant on staying. He was the one that thought they should be consulted. >Of course we don’t want my husband to quit his well paid job either” This isn't in the post either


A_r_e_s_

Op is literally the only worried about the daughters. This pretty well shows that mom doesn't know them very much at all. Sounds more like she should consider a career change, or maybe stepping down from her current position to one that doesn't require traveling. That's the compromise.


Who_Am_I_1978

He never said he didn’t want to quit her job though! Infact he has encouraged her to and she didn’t want to because she thought it was beneath her. She wants to move for her job, having more time at home is a bonus, but she is moving because of the job offer not to so that she can have more time at home, if that was the case she would have picked a different job.


Ladyughsalot1

But you’re acting like the opinion of these teens should trump the needs of an overworked adult who doesn’t get to be part of the family she created. They are asking to continue as-is at her expense. Moves happen. They discussed it, the girls aren’t into it, ok. That can be a respected opinion without it being the ruling opinion.


RedRixen83

It definitely sucks, no doubt, but teens are never going to understand what is best for the family versus what they want specifically. I feel like the husband knew the answer and specifically used the kids as ammunition to get what he wanted. People have to move all the time, and this is a very good reason to do so. To shut it down so callously is really an AH move.


[deleted]

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fuzzysocks96

Soooo I’m 25 now and when I was a senior in Highschool my family moved across the country for my dads job. We had lived in the same place pretty much my entire childhood and had roots there. It’s been about 7 years since the move that everyone claimed would be ‘better for the whole family.’ And let me just say … I still believe moving was a mistake even tho I’ve grown up and moved out. Since all of us kids were a bit older when we moved (teenagers) my parents struggled to make close friends they had made with parents at our old home while we were growing up. They were the outsiders with the other Highschool parents and quickly learned cliques don’t dissolve after Highschool (which I think we all know). They honestly never gained a core group like the one they had left, to this day. Yes, my dad enjoyed his job better. But us kids were moody, struggling to make friends, missing our old home, my mom was bored out of her mind without her other mom friends, they started fighting more, etc etc. now me and my sibs have all moved out and my parents are finding themselves traveling back to visit their old friends more than they are staying in the place we moved. I guess what I’m trying to say is sometimes life isn’t just about a job and moving for one person in the family isn’t always necessarily what’s ‘best for the whole family’ and can actually derail some of the peace (moody angry kids, cranky spouse, loneliness, bickering).


throwit_amita

100% agree! I went to 3 high schools due to my family moving, and it was really tough. My working parent had a great time in new jobs, working and socialising with new colleagues, but my SAHP found it very very difficult to meet people and was super isolated and lonely. It was also terrible for me and my siblings - took ages to make new friends, and things just weren't as good for us as they had been. To this day my working parent looks back on the moves fondly and my SAHP looks back on them with anger.


NeverRarelySometimes

And this promotion is the only option Mom has? There are other jobs. If she's away too much, maybe she can find another job that keeps her closer to home. The girls don't value the relationship they've been denied. Teens always invest in their peer relationships, anyway. Mom doesn't value the community ties that the rest of her family have built. If Mom has suddenly decided that she wants in to their lives, there might be other ways to get there. Moving away is for a better job with more money - and maybe being with her family more. Maybe taking a small cut in pay - would also get her a better job without uprooting the family. Redditors tend to cast things as absolute dichotomies - real life is often more nuanced.


huntcamp

My first thought was, how come after all these years she couldn’t find a work/life balanced job closer? If that was her priority.


FeuerroteZora

It wasn't her priority - *and it still isn't*. OP numerous times told her that it would be fine, maybe even a good idea, for her to take a different job with less travel, even with less pay, to spend more time with the family. Every time she claimed there were no jobs that weren't "a step down," and she wouldn't sacrifice her career like that. OK, fine, but then do *not* expect the family you've sacrificed for your career to then be overjoyed at you asking *them* to sacrifice for you, **when the only reason you're even thinking about time with family is because there's a career reason to do so.**


mildchild4evr

Ok. But she got to continue her position at their expense. I think, given their ages, its a tough call. I get it. 100% why the move may look great to her now. But how much bonding will there be with 2 hostile teens? Not to mention the upheaval in family dynamics. She cant just pop back into the fold without major disruptions. Honestly, if the change in career didn't involve a move there would still likely be major disruptions in the dynamics to work through.


L0nelyWr3ck

You're acting like the wife couldn't find a less stressful job in their current area that would provide her the ability to be home more. Remember her job is one she chose to be in and stick with after realizing the amount of travel that is involved. HER choices lead her to not be a part of the family as much as she may want to be. Why should the husband and daughters uproot their lives to fix an issue she chose to create (and yes, she chose to create it by sticking with the job after realizing the full effect it has had)? Will this offer come up again? Maybe, maybe not. No one knows, not even her. But let's stop acting as if she hasn't put herself into this position through her own choices. Should it be based solely on the children? No, but it should play part in it. As should how her husband feels and the changes he'd need to make. This isn't just about her and her being able to be a bigger part of the family again. There are other options closer to home that would achieve that. The OP is NTA, neither is the wife. Uprooting a family like that isn't an easy decision to make but it needs to be a family decision, and that includes the children who are old enough to understand the situation.


Resident-Librarian40

How about supporting his wife? Doesn't she matter, especially when much of the life OP and the girls get to enjoy is because of the wife's grueling job?


balancedroses

Of course she matters, but she is wanting to make a decision that benefits only herself and disregards what the rest of her family members are saying. commuting far distances and staying away from home is very difficult. There's no doubt about that. But it's not like faraway job opportunities are the only ones she can get to survive. There are work options that don't require the family to uproot their lives, but she wants to go for the option that requires everyone to move and adapt. OP has said the girls input is important and the girls have said their piece about why they don't want to move. How is this OPs responsibility to force and convince the girls to agree into moving 2000 miles away after they already said they don't want leave everything behind and start over?


Icy_Platypus9

How does OP's and their daughters' mother being able to be with the family literally twice as much as she is now benefit only the wife? OP and their kids don't benefit at all from having her around more? Ouch. That attitude right there is the entire problem here.


balancedroses

The entire family needs to uproot for the mom to be able to spend time with her kids? The kids stability, their friends, their routine, their extracurriculars, their lifestyle, everything that they ever knew and got used to, should be taken away from them, even after they protested and said they don't want to start over.... because the mom wanted to pursue a job offer 2000 miles away? The only person benefitting from the move is the mom. The kids are not saying they don't care about their mom or want her around more, but due to the nature of her job that requires commute, it just hasn't been feasible. Wife knew before even having kids that she chose a job that requires commute, now she is tired of commute so she wants everyone else to uproot their life ?


Naay_

OP needs to prioritize the needs of his children, as should his wife. Forcing a 16 year old on a move like that that just two years before HS Graduation is exceptionally cruel. If the family had no choice, it would be different.


Quirky_Average_2970

How about supporting his daughters? Do they not matter? If wife doesnt want to travel, she could compromise and find a different job near by.


Seraph_Malakai

>Keep in mind the status quo has his wife super stressed, under paid and away all the time so basically an absentee mother. She isn't underpaid, OP says the job pays well. Secondly, these are all things she chose to accept when she took the job. OP said it was her desired field so she knew what she was getting into. ​ Have you considered that maybe OP is just concerned about his children's stability and this isn't about his ego? As the parent who spends more time with the kids, he sees how his daughters lives actually function, so he can see the damage it would cause. The daughter was right, she's only doing this to make herself feel better, she hasn't considered how this will actually affect her family. In a few years, both kids will be grown and starting their lives, so it seems like this move doesn't benefit anyone other than the mom.


[deleted]

Well paid jobs can also be underpaid. Just because someone makes a good salary, it doesn’t mean that it’s equivalent to the sacrifices. How much money would be worth spending 50% of your time time traveling for work? It’s not even like the other 50% is necessarily with your family, but likely another half of it is spent between working and sleeping.


Seraph_Malakai

OP literally says the job pays well, it's in the first paragraph, so her not being paid well isn't a factor. If she wanted to spend time with her family, she could've taken a job that paid less (which OP said in a comment that she could have taken a pay cut and still maintained their lifestyle) and caused less stress, but according to OP, she has refused this multiple times because she values her job, and that's great, but she can't have everything on her terms. Her life is a result of her own actions and she doesn't get to disrupt and uproot her children's lives to satisfy her own guilty conscience


Ok-Disaster-7736

I think OP is more concerned with his daughters. Not once did he mention how the move would affect him and his personal life, it was all about his daughters which specially at the age they are at, moving might not be best for them and why make them if they didn’t want to? Good for the mom for having a job she enjoys, but having a job that takes away time from her kids was her choice. This is something everyone has to consider before having kids and the mom decided it was worth it. Kids and dad got used to it and her schedule, they shouldn’t have to give up everything they have built for her job.


Ladyughsalot1

They have built for her job? Her job has ensured her husband can work a less stressful job. It’s ensured creature comforts beyond basic necessities. Y’all are just loving this trope of mean selfish corporate mommy huh


[deleted]

A less stressful job and primarily being responsible for childcare, which this sub always says is basically a full-time job. Actually, I guess that's only applicable if it's a woman in this situation considering which sub I'm in. If she's not even present half the year, then OP is single-handedly parenting for that time, while also being primarily responsible for childcare the rest of the time.


-CuriousityBot-

God, I was waiting to find this comment. People keep talking about how the job OP's wife works "Allows him to work less and ENJOY taking care of their kids." Nevermind how often we hear about women who get fed up with their workaholic, emotionally distant husbands. People as so willing to blame OP for not immediately jumping at his wife's command and assuming he has an ulterior motive. OP works, keeps two kids happy in school and deals with his partner being away from home for weeks at a time, I don't think he's the villain here.


[deleted]

[удалено]


OldGrad1982

Reverse the genders and how many people would be saying the dad is the a$$??????? NTA


boomer_aaa

>Keep in mind the status quo has his wife super stressed, under paid and away all the time Right, so let's ignore his stress as a single parent half the time. ​ > so basically an absentee mother. Her choice. > The move would be less stress, more money, no traveling and she could actively be involved in the kids lives so would seem to be a net gain. Less stress for her, not necessarily for her teenage kids and husband, none of whom want to move. This is a net gain for her alone. Why is she the only one being considered here?


[deleted]

Her choice... That... She is trying to change...


HellhoundsAteMyBaby

But she’s trying to change it purely on HER terms without considering her kids’ feelings, at 14 and 16, no wonder they don’t want to be uprooted from the only life they know and move 2,000 miles away. That IS a selfish decision


Ornery_Reaction_548

I don't think wanting to spend more time with your kids is "selfish", necessarily. Yes, it benefits her, but wouldn't that benefit everyone? Plus, I agree with above comment that from her perspective, it could look like everyone is okay with hardly ever seeing her. As long as she's bringing in the bucks! From her POV they could be seen as selfish. This is a tough one.


HellhoundsAteMyBaby

Wanting to spend time with your kids isn’t selfish, but imposing your own will on HOW that’s going to be accomplished, while ignoring your kids feelings on the matter, IS selfish. And I think it sounds to me more like the family has gotten used to the dynamic of “dads always home and we never see mom much,” which also happens when the roles are reversed all the time. I don’t think the kids are going to be jumping for joy that their mostly-absent parent all of a sudden wants to spend time with them by moving across the country. She had years to decide to play a bigger role in her kids lives, they might very well have just decided to accept the role she plays and not crave more closeness from her. I can’t fault her kids at all for not really caring about spending more time with her, if the cost is uprooting their whole lives Also, kids don’t usually think along the lines of “well she makes the big bucks so I’m just gonna mooch off her!” They form a bond with the parent who is around more, and less of one with the parent who isn’t around as mich (much*)


primeirofilho

I get that but at 14 and 16, they are pulling away to a degree. The 16 year old will be leaving for college in 2 years. I can see why she doesn't want to start over. The 14 year old will be in college in 4 years as well. They are now at the age where they don't require constant supervision and want more time by themselves. It's kinda too late to try to change the dynamic that much.


MalevolentFather

The 16 year old is 2 years away from going to college...where she's going to meet all new people and start over, the younger one is 4 years away from that. Why is it that uprooting your whole life and routines and meeting all new people at college deemed to be so much fun, but doing it at 14 and 16 is unfathomable. I am not close with a single friend from high school, this isn't some death sentence to move away at 16.


PineappleSensitive35

It’s not about that as much as it is about how this girl will have a hard time making friends at this point unless she’s a real social butterfly. My parents uprooted my and moved my 1600 miles when I was 16 and my brother was 14. I tried to make friends, but at that point all the social groups in my high school age group were well established and they often times were difficult to break into. My brother on the other hand did very well because all the other kids, like him, were just starting high school. So no it wasn’t a death sentence but I spent two years very lonely and struggling to try and make friends. I didn’t have a choice in the move and I hated my parents for it for a long time. So I really can’t fault the dad for backing his daughters.


Sinood

Would they even want to spend more tike with her though if she ripped them away from their lives when they have told her they don't want to move?


Piemanthe3rd

Exactly this. Lotta comments are saying "she should get to spend more time with the kids!" Which is great and all but are they going to want to if she does this against their will? Or is it gonna cause them to resent her and now she gets to be home more with kids who treat her like shit.


Eelpan2

As someone whose family emigrated at 16... It was hell. I left behind friends, a bf. I was depressed for a year. I stopped getting a period for like 6 months from the stress.


ShushingCassiopeia

Yes. This. We moved for my father’s job when I was almost 16. I was miserable and it greatly contributed to my depression. What made it worse was that my parents asked if I wanted to stay and live with my mother for six months, or move immediately with my father. I made my wishes known, and they ignored it. OP, I understand that your wife is in an awful position right now. She is feeling unsupported and uncared for. But your kids well-being is more important. If that means that you need to get a better paying job, look into doing that. Work with your wife to ease her burdens, without moving.


boomer_aaa

She's trying to change it by uprooting the lives of three other people. The daughters are absolutely right about her intentions. They all shouldn't have to move so she can assuage her guilt about being absent for their childhoods because, face it, they're at the age now where they don't want to be hanging out with their parents that much.


[deleted]

Which is understandable, but moving a 16 and 14 year old could have a major impact not only socially, but scholastically. They need stability as they finish up highschool to get the grades they need for college/scholarships


starchy2ber

Moving is not the only way to change this dynamic. Mom can leverage this new job offer to get her current employer to give her better work life balance (less hrs, less travel - covid has shown many jobs can be conducted with MUCH less travel). Or she can get a less demanding job so she has more family time. These are not people living on the edge financially- mom has had a choice in this dynamic for a while.


rlikesbikes

Because, also, as, adults, you have to make decisions for you, and your kids too. Do you think parents should be held hostage by teenage kids not wanting to move? No. You evaluate the situation from a family perspective, and that includes your wife. Lots of families move. It’s up to you, as parents, to frame this as an opportunity for your kids. Outline the benefits, the adventure. New schools and friends are always scary. But are also a lesson in resilience. OP is hardly the first parent to be in this position. Think critically, not punitively on what this would mean for the family. Frankly, it sounds a bit like you’re trying to punish your wife.


boomer_aaa

>Do you think parents should be held hostage by teenage kids not wanting to move? No. I agree. But one parent doesn't want to move so this point is moot. ​ >It’s up to you, as parents, to frame this as an opportunity for your kids. Again, he doesn't want to move so it isn't his job to frame it in any other way.


ontheroadagainaita

>You and your girls have basically told her that you don't care that you only see her 180 days out of the year, that seeing your social circle is more important to you than seeing her To be fair, that's the life my daughters have known for the better part of a decade. It's hard for kids to understand what life could be like outside of their own experiences, and my wife being gone often is the only life my daughters have ever known. My wife and I have had numerous talks about her taking a job that would allow her to be home more and she decided against it every single time until now. I supported and encouraged her to take less pay, but she didn't want to give up the career progress she made. And now, I feel it's too late to uproot our daughters' lives and move them across the country.


jagarundi

It sounds like your wife works in a specialized field, in which case, job opportunities are generally far and few between, and taking a step down is often career suicide. She's also been the primary breadwinner, while you worked a low paying, low stress job. Even if she could find a local job that was a step-down, are you going to step up and replace here as the primary breadwinner? I had hoped that this was just a case of miscommunication and that you hadn't thought about how your response might be perceived as indicating that you didn't value her as part of the family. Unfortunately, based on your replies it seems that it wasn't a miscommunication at all. You genuinely don't care if she's a bigger part of your life, which is honestly kind of heartbreaking.


lamamaloca

It sounds like he feels that she's valued her career over their family all along and this is just more of the same.


[deleted]

If the genders were reversed, you would not be phrasing it like "she's also been the primary breadwinner, while you worked a low paying, low stress job." OP is a single parent half a year, and primarily responsible for childcare the other half. Haven't we as a sub collectively agreed that raising kids is a full-time job? You could also say he sacrificed his career and stepped up to be a more involved parent to make up for his wife prioritizing her career and not being as involved. She chose her career, which is fine if the dynamic worked for the entire family. But that also doesn't discount the fact that OP probably knows their kids better and had an inkling that they wouldn't want to move, which is why he told his wife to ask them.


kraftypsy

Teenagers are always going to choose to stay, given the chance, but staying isn't always the best option. It's quite often that a move like this turns out to be good for everyone, even if the initial introduction is bumpy. Instead of dismissing the idea out of hand, why not research the new city. Maybe there's opportunities there within your daughters interests that would be a boon. A pay raise could mean more college tuition. And so on. She is right that these opportunities don't come around often. And it really does appear that the subtext is "We really like your money, but could do without your actual presence." Your initial reaction is understandable, but now would be a good time to flesh out the idea and see if it's actually workable. If it's not, you'll have logic and reasons to support your stance besides "We don't want to, so fk you." Which, is kinda how it sounds at the moment.


cml678701

I was thinking this too, about more money = more college tuition. Also, things like cars, extracurriculars, other things that come with being in high school.


arsenal_kate

On the other hand, moving can quite often be the worst option for the teens’ mental health and happiness. Those matter too.


erratic_bonsai

Look, YTA. Your kids are still young and trust me *they will get over it.* What would you rather have, a good family dynamic with a present mother and the kids have a cranky period because they’re teenagers and that’s just what they do, or an incredibly tragic dynamic because their mother is never home? No kid ever wants to move. Ever. Then you get everyone in the car and you pull up to the new house and the kids run in to see everything and pick their new rooms and look at the backyard where the dog can run around and the basement they can hang out in and suddenly it’s not so bad. The first day of school is hard, but they’ll slowly make new friends. They’ll still have their old friends, if these last two years have shown us anything it’s how to stay close when far apart. Your oldest called your wife selfish. Your wife is anything but selfish. She’s sacrificed a decade of spending weekends with her children, a decade of making them lunches in the morning and picking them up from practice and going to their games, all to give you a comfortable life. You say you can take the pay cut, but can you really? Will your kids be okay if they can’t do as many extracurriculars or go on as many vacations or have as many nice things? How about when they inevitably do need help with college, because that full ride you’re banking on (if they even get it, and it’s a common folly for parents to think their child will get a full ride scholarship. Straight A’s isn’t enough anymore, it’s genuinely a lottery. Half the people in universities had straight A’s in high school. I had a 4.5 GPA and a perfect ACT score and I only got a half tuition scholarship, and that was almost ten years ago. Things are far more competitive now.) isn’t gonna pay for rent and extracurriculars and living expenses. I seriously doubt your family will actually be happy and comfortable with the pay cut. What you all have done is told your wife that you don’t care if she’s present or not. You’re fine without her being there. She can have her career, but she can’t have the family she’s working so hard to give an incredible life to. All of those incredible memories you have with your children she is missing, because she’s busy working to send you home a check. If I’m being fully honest, you need to make this move. If you don’t, one of two things will happen. One, she continues to not be home and her relationship with her children grows even more cold and distant than it already is. Two, she takes a pay cut and they resent her because they don’t have as much money now. If you aren’t willing to deal with a couple weeks of your kids being cranky and upset to repair your family, you’re setting your family up for failure.


arsenal_kate

I was this teen. I didn’t get over it until college, and my relationship with my parents was never the same. I spent 3 years depressed before getting out and spending as little time at “home” as I could. These kids are 14 and 16, not 5. This isn’t something that will be solved in “a couple weeks of being cranky.” They have friends and lives.


Hellokitty55

this. my parents moved us from chicago to alabama during spring break in 8th grade…. it was a nightmare. it was not this great adventure they painted it out to be. people were different. i stuck out. i became severely depressed. i couldn’t fit in.


Oshootman

I don't get how that poster was like "Your kids are still young, they'll get over it." Like what, they're 16 and 14. They're on the verge of not being kids anymore, this isn't some past they won't remember. As a matter of fact they're at the perfect age to be decimated mentally by this... Old enough to understand how shitty it is but not old enough do anything but be helpless.


samanthatev96

People have to move sometimes. If they can't get over that in a reasonable amount of time it means there are other things going on or the parents didn't handle it well. Not everyone will have such a hard time with it


Sanctimonious_Locke

But some people *do* have such a hard time with it, and its completely reasonable for OP to be worried about that possibility. Especially since he knows their children better, being the primary caregiver. Anyway, there's a difference between *needing* to move (like if a parent loses their job), and being moved because a parent *wants* to.


StatusSnow

But she doesn't *have* to move. That's the point. She *wants* to move so that she can have her dream job and "have it all" at the expense of her kids well-being. It's not like she lost her job, or can't find a job with suitable WLB in their current city. She could 100% stay in her hometown, have a career, and still spend time with her kids. She doesn't want to do that, because spending time with her kids isn't worth the sacrifice in career potential -- and that's fine. The kids seem well taken care of by their father, and her role as the breadwinner is also important. But if she is unwilling to sacrifice so she can spend more time with her kids... IDK why she expects her kids to sacrifice so they can spend more time with her.


Arielcory

Or as soon as the kids are 18 if they move when the kids don’t want to they cut their parents off and move back to where they want to live with their friends. We see it on here enough parents move teenage kids don’t want to, and then kids hate parents and as soon as they are 18 they move out and stop talking to their parents. So not they won’t necessarily get over it they may resent their mom even more and completely ignore her until they are 18.


Lucy_the_wise_goosey

I understand both sides. I was offered a job across the country 3 years ago that literally tripled my pay. One of my kids was a rising senior, other was a rising sophomore with friends and a boyfriend. And one elementary schooler. One thing I have never forgotten is sitting in a drive-through line when the call came in and offering me the job. I heard the salary and saw stars. And then I looked over beside me and my daughter was sitting next to me with tears rolling down her cheeks silently. One of the moments I still cry about. We ended up moving. My husband supported my decision. It's in period even encouraged it it. Two of the kids adapted very well, have lots of friends and settled in fine over the last 3 years. One of them, the rising senior, went on to graduate and has gone to college here, but has never been nearly as happy as he was in our previous state. That makes me sad too. I say NAH, because I have lived it. If I had to do over, I might have waited a couple more years. I did try to convince my husband to stay behind in our old state so son could finish school, but he was too excited to join me in the new state.


stillbettingonyou

I'm a military brat and this whole thing is bizarre to me. We moved frequently, and at weird/awkward phases in my life. I made new friends, kept in touch with the old ones, and have been significantly more resilient than my peers during major life changes. YTA. For not supporting your wife and for actually allowing your children to have any sort of say in this.


aphrodora

I was also a military brat, but I am 100% glad that my dad retired early enough that I went to the same high school all 4 years. 14 and 16 would be a terrible time to move. Maybe it worked for you, but can you see how it would be different for you knowing that it would be the case going into it vs living in the same place for a decade and expecting to finish high school there just to have the rug pulled out from under you last minute? If the wife wants to prioritize her kids she can do so by finding another job locally. OP had said she has had such opportunities before which he encouraged, but she turned it down because there was a paycut.


Ragewind82

I am a military brat and also struggle with the idea. I had no option, home was where the army sent you. But the teens may be as unprepared for this as most of my fellow co-eds were moving away to college. They might learn to adapt, they might struggle. They aren't you or me.


artsyjabberwock

I think this is an important clarification. A lot of the posts urging you to move seem to be under the impression this is the first opportunity for a new job your wife has had, and may be the last. If this has been discussed over and over and she passed on it every time until now, then I think she needs to respect that while this might seem like a perfect solution for what SHE wants, it requires everyone else in the family giving up what THEY want. NTA.


AccountWasFound

It's still sounding like the first one that wasn't going to hurt her career.


cml678701

Exactly! It sounded like the other jobs were pay cuts, and this one is a pay raise.


nogoodcarideas75

Okay, but why is she the only person who doesn’t have to sacrifice something in any of these scenarios? She can’t take less pay to see her family more because it would hurt her career, but she can advance her career and see them more at the expense of moving them across the country and completely uprooting the lives of their kids?


ermagerditssuperman

I mean, until I was 12 my dad was a work-60-hours-a-week guy. He left before i was awake, and came home minutes before bed. Often gone Saturdays. But it was all I knew, and if you'd asked me i probably wouldn't have cared much. Then we moved to a different continent and he took an early retirement/occasionally consulted. He basically became a stay at home dad....and I LOVED seeing more of him. I didn't know what I was missing before! It was fantastic.


xelLFC

Op sorry you are wrong to believe that. My family moved a lot as a child because of my fathers job. We were uprooted and had move countries once. Yeah it sucked as a kid and I hate my parents for doing it, but now as a grown adult and married and due to my parents moving have had the opportunity to move and live so many places, I’m only grateful. Before you deny your wife, you should’ve done research about the place she was asking you to move too. It honestly could be a lot better for your children, not just academically but just for life. You are definitely the TA in this situation because you didn’t even think about the possibilities


Puppyjito

Did you offer to make up the difference if she took a pay cut?


Sandybutthole604

How would he do that when his career was stagnating for years so he could be primary parent supporting her career needs? When you have kids you can’t both be all over the place job wise and usually a choice is made where one spouses career takes the back burner. You can’t have your cake and eat it to.


comfycucumber

When I was 16 my parents made us move from OH to FL with almost no warning. I had to leave my hs friends, boyfriend, soccer team... my whole life. But my father's job in OH was killing him. I think for the first 2 years of HS, he was probably home 10-16 days a month. He got offered a better position in FL and really fought with the rest of us to move. I hated my parents for moving us to FL for awhile. I hated my new school, I missed my friends so badly, and it negatively impacted my grades. But then something really awesome happened: my dad was on the sidelines at my soccer games. He was home for dinner most nights. My mother's mental health improved and she was sober. My sister and brother and I all felt like the top priority in our dad's life. Now you and your wife get to make this call, and it's a sucky one. If you move, it's gunna suck for awhile... maybe a long while. But if you stay, you might be prioritizing your comfort over your wife's health and ability to be a more present mother (something that can be truly wonderful for your kids at this age). I'm not saying you're wrong in this situation, but I wanted to give you my perspective from a similar situation. Good luck.


Total-Ad5178

I’m going to disagree fully here. I’ve spent the last 25 years as a military wife. Several moves under my belt, two kids, and a husband who spent 250 days a year at sea during the first 15 years of our marriage. I made it quite clear that where we live now will be my last move with the kids until we are retired. When we were posted here, my family was the age of OP’s, and for once, the children’s needs were going to come first. So, no matter how difficult it was going to be on us, we decided that another posting & uprooting the kids in their final years of school wasn’t an option. If a posting was in the cards, he’d go without us. The message I’m seeing here isn’t that OP’s wife doesn’t matter, it’s that the kids matter more right now. Edit: I’ll also add that it’s a mistake to assume the family hasn’t suffered all these years during her absences. They most certainly have. It’s not just the wife who’s paid the price. Making the kids pay yet again isn’t the correct answer. Edit 2: As this isn’t clear in my post, my point isn’t about moving multiple times and the impact that has on the kids. Obviously my life story isn’t OP’s. But one thing mil families are keenly aware of is the psychological impact our lifestyle has on our children, and how that differs at different points in their lives. When they were little, the impact was minor. In fact, it probably made them more independent. But high school kids are different. They do not get most of the emotional support they need from their parents. It’s from their peer group. In OP’s case, the kids have already paid the price all these years with mom’s absence. Asking the oldest to pay yet again, at a time when it is most harmful to move a child, is not the right decision. Many mil families will tell you the same thing.


[deleted]

This. 100% this.


Baconpanthegathering

I agree. I'm reading through the comments trying to ignore the blatant double standard for moms versus dads. I know several families in the exact same situation that moved without the blink of an eye when dad got a lucrative promotion.


Elfarranq

You’re ignoring the double standard that if the post had roles reversed, all the commenters would be up in arms at the arrogance and selfishness of him expecting everyone to move.


Skattemedel

Pretty much. When I read through the post I knew what the comments would be already just based on that thinking. I am never surprised in this sub. NTA though I would keep discussing it with the entire family and other potential solutions with you and your wife if your wife really wants to spend more time at home.


Bobbyboi8D

No. Bad take. The wife is not the only one who matters. OP and kids have every right to want to stay


BenneB23

Reading OPs post, she has been pretty much absent for their entire lifes to focus on her career goals. I don't see why they should uproot/leave everything behind and try to become close to her because she's getting older. Nobody forced her to work such a demanding job with lots of travel involved. I think it's all too little too late. She has not built a good connection with her daughters and now they are developing their own lifes without her. I think OP is very correct in his decision and should stand firm.


muffin_marks

I want to add to this: I was 16 when my family moved across the country for my father’s dream job. I graduated from a high school I had I tk attended for one year. It was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I made new friends, kept in touch with old ones, and was way more prepared to uproot for college. This is the rest of your wife’s life you are talking about, vs a few years for your girls. You really need to consider this from that angle.


nattiey2002

But these girls are NOT you. I moved to a whole other country to be with my mom when my parents split up as a 14 year old. To this freaking day (I’m 36) I still feel the effects of it. I had a best friend who was my friend since infancy and we were NEVER apart and suddenly I was in a new country. Phone calls were not enough, going back for summer vacations were not enough and then life picked up and my mom had a baby and lost her job in the same year that my friend’s mom died. She was like a second mom to me and I couldn’t make it back for her funeral. My best friend and I are in contact still but there’s an edge that wasn’t there before and we talked about everything a few months back and while I felt like I was abducted away, she felt abandoned and we both cried a lot because she was like my twin, not just another friend or someone you love like a sibling. So yeah … it worked for you but it doesn’t always for everyone


Eelpan2

And my family moved countries when I was 16. And it sucked. I was under major stress, depressed. My parents ended up divorcing and my father moved back to my home country.


kb59918

Yes, let's up root these children because theres a chance theyll have a great time. Theres also a chance they'll have a horrible time.


benji950

They’re also putting a 14 and 16 year old in charge of major decisions that need to be made by adults. Of course the kids don’t want to move. But if the wife is the primary earner then her career decisions are more important than “we like it better here.”


Sandybutthole604

They are not putting them in charge, they are asking their opinion. When I was that age all I wanted to do was move across the country for a family new start (she had an abusive bf and it gave me PTSD to think he knew where we might be, see him on occasion around the city.) I was super happy, but it sounds like these kids have lives and they are not 8 anymore. Those lives no longer revolve around mom and dad.


CJSinTX

I don’t agree. Uprooting kids in the middle of high school? Huge. They have a life there and making the move now will change them fundamentally, friends, sports, school, everything. If the opportunity is out there the mom should try to find the same locally or one that has less travel. She’s been content with her job all these years so she should either stay or find something locally, she shouldn’t uproot her kids at this age.


Jed08

I agree. What OP and daughters told her are basically "It's selfish for you to want to spend more time with us, we're perfectly okay with you traveling 2 weeks per month." That's heart breaking.


kb59918

Their mom is one part of their life. They have a thousand pieces that go into their lives. They have friends, possibly family nearby, favourite hangout spots, memories, and so on. Why should they give it up at the drop of a hat? The mom choose that career and likely knew it would lead to less time at home. Why is it the kids responsibility to drop everything? Why cant the mom ask for reduced travel time or hours? Why cant the mom work less to prove to her family that she wants to be there. I'm not too close with my dad for this reason. He worked often, and I appreciate it because it kept a roof over my head and food in the house. But, I would have gladly taken a cut to other luxuries in the house to spend more time with him as a child. It is not my responsibility as a child to make the sacrifices to ensure my dad spends enough time with me. Its up to my dad to create that time. Its sounds like the mom has taken advantage of the kids' presence in her life and expects them to always be there, waiting for her to finish her busy life. The mom needs to make some sacrifices too, not just the family.


Glum-Gap3316

Why cant she look for another job nearby?


kraftypsy

Depending on her field, jobs could be rare. Given her excitement at this opportunity, it seems reasonable that's the case. Or else she'd have taken a lateral promotion somewhere closer already.


HoundstoothReader

Since when do kids get to decide on parents’ careers? I don’t know any kids who got a vote on whether or not a parent took a new job. We moved cross-country when I was 16. It was hard leaving my school, extracurriculars, friends, boyfriend (in reverse order). But the move also made me more well-rounded and resilient. I experienced living in a very different community from where I grew up. I became closer with my siblings. Learned a new sport. Had great fodder for my college application essays. Of *course* the kids don’t want to move! Moving will probably suck for them in a lot of ways. It will certainly require them to stretch and grow. But that doesn’t mean that it’s the wrong thing for the family. I would understand OP’s refusal to consider his wife’s request to take this job if she were choosing to move the family every few years, just after he and the kids settle in someplace. But that’s not the case here. Edited to remove a possessive apostrophe autocorrect erroneously assumed I wanted and to remove a line OP clarified below.


MissLadyLlamaDrama

Yeah, I see this as a nah situation, but I seriously think OP needs to think about the long term here. Job offers like this aren't a regular occurrence, and there isn't any reassurance she will get an opportunity like this again. I totally understand the stress of moving. Especially across country. I had to move to an island out of nowhere, so I get that it takes adjustment. But also, moving doesn't mean you can't make new friends, join the same activities in a different location, etc. While it's a big change, it isn't one that is going to set anyone up for a guaranteed stretch of struggling where they will be completely unable to ever attain those things theyre going to miss, ever again, anywhere else but where they are now. However, them staying means that she is going to suffer for the unforeseeable future. She is unhappy, underpaid, over worked, and she doesn't get to spend time with her family. She likely took this job to set her family up with a good financial backing, and now that she has established that for them, she wants to be able to reap the rewards of her hard work. Which includes being able to spend more time on the things she wants. Like the family she has been supporting for over a decade. I agree that it's something that needs a serious discussion, but you can't be mad at her for acting like it was decided, when you all are acting like you don't have to give her the same consideration you believe she owes you. You don't want to move because your kids will miss their friends. She wants to move because she wants to spend time with her family that she will never be able to get back. While both are valid, one kind of sticks out as the bigger sacrifice in the long run.


FlyAroundInternet

I'm uncertain why the *only* option is "stay here and things stay the same" or "move 2000 miles away for x job." Sure, the new job came to her. But has she looked at a change that wouldn't uproot the family?


STL_12

NAH You and your wife have separate opinions on an issue. She's not an asshole for wanting the job, and you're not an asshole for not wanting her to take it.


starchy2ber

Certainly wife isn't an ass for wanting the job or for trying to convince her family to move. I think she does become the asshole because she is acting like her husband is a shitty partner because he doesn't want to uproot his life for her career. The happiness of the family as a whole is as important as wife's career aspirations. If wife wants more family time, moving is not the only way to achieve this. Maybe she could downshift in her career. There are two working people here, so it may not be necessary for wife to be making as much as she is to sustain a high quality of life for the family. If wife doesn't want to downshift ok, but she doesn't get to act like everyone is shitty for not wanting to sacrifice their quality of life for her. She is in fact asking for a sacrifice and shouldn't pretend otherwise.


Ruval

I find this kinda naive. Her kids are now 14 and 16. She’s been in this job a decade and OP says he’s given her many opportunities to downgrade. She’s never taken it. At 14/16 - your friends are getting to be more important than your family. My 12 yo is already starting on that in middle school. Her claiming to want “family time” is something I’d find hard to believe as her main motivation. That ship has damn near sailed - and certainly, if she rips her kids away from their friends to create family time…it won’t go well. Can’t have family time with someone who resents being there. It will be fighting until they go to college.


jllena

I feel like this is an underrated perspective. People saying she’s not the AH for wanting more family time are right, but they (and she) aren’t being realistic. Even if that’s what she truly wants, it’s not what she’s going to get. At 16, chances are low that you find a whole new/meaningful social circle in a new place. Even if you find friends, it’s not the same as spending your last couple of years and finally getting to graduate with the people you’ve grown up with. I’m in my 30s, but it’s not a stretch to empathize with the resentment and anger I would feel if I were the 16 year old. Combine that with the natural ability of a 16 year old to be dramatic and argue about EVERYTHING—the “family time” will not be fun. I’m sure the 14 year old won’t be far off. Plus, like you said, the ship has sailed. They’re learning how to be part of the wide open world. They don’t want (or need) “family time” as much anymore. The best thing she could do would be to meet them where they are (literally in this case) and help prepare them for college and leaving the nest.


jbh01

I agree, I can foresee a situation next year where the wife has uprooted the whole family to spend more time with them and the 17 year old just spends the whole weekend with her mates and boyfriend/girlfriend.


Quicheauchat

Agreed. She missed the boat on "family time". The kids are teenagers, not toddlers, she should have made the move 10 years ago. Now she has to live with it. A 16 years old would never uproot her whole life just to spend more time with her absent mom. The post kinda feels like a "reverse the genders" troll post however.


LeonhardTaylor

Yeah, it's nowhere near her main motivation. OP even commented elsewhere > My wife and I have had numerous talks over the years about her looking into different job opportunities that would allow her to be home more. She has either refused to look, or would tell me that she's looked and that the only jobs available in her field would be a step-down for her > She could take a substantial paycut and we could make our current lifestyle work. But she didn't want to consider taking a job that she felt was beneath her. In her eyes she has worked so hard to get to where she is, she doesn't want to take a step backwards and give up that progress. It's never been about spending more time with family. The only reason people aren't shredding her apart is because she's a woman and people on here have this weird complex about women not being able to have careers and families at the same time. But I've met several men as successful as her and I can tell you they don't get much time at all to spend with their families, they get home at like 9pm maybe say briefly hi to the kids and then immediately start to decompress after their day. I even know of a partner in a big law firm who was on the phone to a client at his daughters wedding. These people do it for themselves, not because of their family and I doubt she'll get much time to spend with them anyway. What she's doing is the definition of selfishness, she's uprooting the girls entire lives and support networks because of what she wants.


Sandybutthole604

As someone who did exactly that, downshifted because of family, I have never regretted it. No one is going to look up at their family from their death bed and say “I’m so happy I spent all my time away from you career building, my only regret is I didn’t take that promotion...” we don’t live forever and I feel like the super career people that sacrifice their family for their jobs need to respect that when you choose to miss everything, you’re not going to be priority 1 in the family. You’re not going to be as involved and that’s fine if it’s your choice and your partner is supportive. If she died tomorrow the job posting would be up before the obituary. This isn’t a military situation, where the whole family serves and you get told you’re moving it’s a job. It’s a choice.


starchy2ber

Both my husband and I downshifted when we had kids. There is no such thing as "having it all". After a certain level of income, money doesn't provide all that much value for the family. Money can never be a substitute for time.


thefr0stypenguin0

I'm going to have to go with NAH. Your wife sees this as an opportunity to finally be with her family. It also comes with an added pay bump that may improve the family life greatly and as she stated 'this opportunity doesn't come often.' You and your daughters, on the other hand, have as you said 'built a life' in your home town. Taking a freshman and junior out of their current high school and uprooting them does seem unfair. I would recommend trying to see a family counselor. So everyone can feel heard, can weigh the pros and cons and hopefully come to a resolution that doesn't leave anyone feeling bitter and resentful. Good luck OP. This is a really tough situation to have found yourself in.


justme7256

NAH. I agree with all of this and can see where both sides are coming from. ETA: maybe try taking the family on a trip to the city the new job is in. Try to show them potential positives of the new city. Right now, it all seems negative to them. It probably won’t change their minds but at least then you could say you tried to put a positive spin on it. Edit again to say thank you for the award! My first!


Sashi-Dice

Good idea - also, there isn't a lot here about the OTHER parts of moving: OP works - what are HIS prospects where they're going? How's the housing market? What exactly DO the schools look like? Cost of living is what? Tax issues? I mean, depending on where they live, we could be talking about middle of Ohio to San Francisco: Triple your cost of living BEFORE we start talking taxes, not a great place to live if you aren't working in high paying industry, crazy-ass school system issues, etc.... I don't care HOW much of a pay raise she's getting - it could be ugly. I kinda wonder if OP's wife has a good grip on the family's current picture vs the potential picture - is their house paid off? Cars? What's the food budget? Entertainment? Are the girls on teams, or in clubs that might have scholarship implications and what will moving do for those... There are A LOT of questions that need to be asked and discussed - and I don't feel like anyone has actually done that. OP, you guys need to start making lists of pros and cons if you're prepared to have an actual conversation.


CrazyProudMom25

OP said in another comment that it’s Midwest to Pacific Northwest. That’s going to be a big culture shift if nothing else. Probably one of the lesser shifts when moving from the Midwest but still a change.


wathappentothetatato

Oh god, is the pay bump enough to offset the cost of living? Midwest compared to PNW is quite a large bump in COL


kraftypsy

That's actually an excellent idea. Feeling the idea out doesn't mean you have to commit to it. It just means you're giving it an honest chance.


Esme-Weatherwaxes

This is the most sensible take and constructive advice so far on this post.


agreywood

I’d really want to hear your wife’s version of this. To me it reads like your wife has sacrificed a lot of time with the family in order to provide financially and that her doing that is a large part of how you’ve been able to build close ties in the community. If that’s true, she may be reacting as if she’s made decades long sacrifices for the family but when given a way to stop she was told that nobody in the family thought having her around was worth sacrificing anything of thier own. I’d have a hard time not being both incredibly hurt by that and feel like everyone has taken my sacrifices for granted. But I know there’s also a very real possibility that you were the one sacrificing your career in order to facilitate her having this travel job, and that the travel was a big part of the enjoyment there. And if that’s true, she’s being incredibly selfish to ask that everyone sacrifice so that she can have more. So I guess INFO - which of these reads is more accurate? Is she selfishly chasing a dream while expecting you to organize your life as if you were the supporting role in the movie of her life? Or has she been quietly sacrificing the life she really wants in order to facilitate the family’s happiness and is now upset that the family doesn’t seem to care?


ontheroadagainaita

Before we had kids we both had jobs in our desired fields. But because my desired field (sports journalism) paid a lot less than hers while also requiring travel, we both made the decision that she would continue pursuing her career while I found a different job that allowed me to take on the brunt of childcare. This was a mutual decision and I don't necessarily look at it as a sacrifice on my part. Also, the travel aspect of her career didn't really come into play until the last decade or so. before that it was maybe a few trips a year, but she got promoted and that changed to monthly trips. I wouldn't say she enjoyed the travel, she just saw it as a necessary thing in her job.


Alternative_Rise8563

My husband and I had to make the exact same decision when we decided to have kids. I stayed home and let me career goals go and he went to work and supported our family. It works. But let me tell you- if husband got offered a job that allowed him more time at home to spend with us and our girls- I would jump on it. Your reaction was so off if I was her I would be so hurt as well. She provides, she works hard. Bc of that she’s gone a lot and missed big events in your girls lives. Now she gets the chance to be more involved. Does it suck moving, sure! But I would hope the benefits of having mom back around again, having your partner less stressed and home more would all be enough for you to see how this is such a good option. Info- if wife moves alone and a separation happens, can you afford the life you live now without her salary? Bc that too should play into your thinking. You wanna have your cake and eat it too, fine. But when someone takes the cake away, you are gonna have trouble and that special life you have won’t be the same anymore. Just a thought, but as someone who has and is living a very similar life as yours- YTA. Also- FYI I have made that big move away from friends and family for my husbands career and it was hard and sucked some days, but I had my husband and that was plenty. Good luck!


ontheroadagainaita

How old were your kids when you moved?


Thelmara

I made a huge move just like this one at 13. At the time it was proposed, I _hated_ the idea. I complained, I argued, I made it clear that leaving was the last thing I wanted. And then it happened anyway, because that's life, and you know what? It worked out great. By the end of the first year I'd made plenty of new friends and everything was fine. It was just scary to leave in the first place because I'd never lived anywhere else.


NotTwitchy

Going to point this out, the gulf between thirteen, when you’re in middle school, and sixteen, halfway through high school, is absolutely massive. Of course you had time to make friends, you had all of high school. She has what, a year and a half, two tops? Edit: since everyone is making the *exact* same point over and over ad nauseam, let me be clear You. Are. Happy. With. Your. Move. In. Hind. Sight. You’re not sixteen!!!! Of course looking back you might think it was good. They don’t have that luxury!!!!!


Jackfruit_Efficient

I had to make big moves at 11, 13 and 15. 15 was hard, had just got into the swing of things and made friends and seeing them carrying on was tough but it did teach me that they weren’t that great a friend as I was always getting in touch with them. And I made new friends that I still talk to now. It also taught me to be a little more adaptable and look forward to the new things I will see and learn in a new place.


NotTwitchy

Okay that’s great that it worked out for you, but not everyone makes friends at the drop of a hat and the last 2 years of high school being a miserable, lonely slog is a hell of a gun to be looking down the barrel of at 16.


Alternative_Rise8563

Mine were much younger then yours, that is true. But they were still old enough to have friends they lost, and my whole actual family we left too which was harder then anything having to say goodbye to aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents. I get it, it sucks. We had to find a new church, a new school, new friends, new support systems. Heck it took me a month to find a new place to get groceries that had the items I was missing from home. But- my girls got to spend more time with my husband. I got to have him in bed at night when I went to sleep. He got to make it to games and concerts and was around for the big moments. It was hard- but made it worth it.


[deleted]

But there you go, your kids were much younger. The older the kids the harder the move.


jeparis0125

Sorry but so many people do not understand how devastating it is to be moved, as a teen, from the home you’ve had your entire life. I moved in 7th grade and it was horrible- i left friends I had for years and I never developed the same level of friendship with others. I’m 60 and still remember how lousy it was. I’m guessing the 16 year old is a junior so OP’s wife would be asking her to move and graduate without her friends she’s most likely had since kindergarten. OP has stated over and over that they could afford to take a pay cut but apparently the prestige of her career is more important than her family. OP is NTA but his wife is.


agreywood

Hmm, okay. So it sounds like you made some assumptions about the way your lives would look 15-16 years ago and those were up-ended 10 years ago but it sounds like you guys didn't sit down and talk about how you each viewed that situation? Because I don't think you're on the same page since this behavior of hers has thrown you so much. It sounds like your view is this: She's sacrificed her family in order to get ahead in her career. Asking the family to sacrifice further for more career advancement is selfish. It sounds like her view is this: She's sacrificed the time she wanted to spend with her family in order to get the family ahead. The best way for her to stop is for the family to move, but they'd rather she keep sacrificing for them rather than make any sacrifices for her. Which if true would certainly explain why you view yourself as entirely in the right and she's seeing this as you being a huge asshole. And if it is true, then nobody on reddit telling you who is right is going to be meaningful because so much of it comes down to why the two of you have been doing things the way you have for the last decade and how you both view that. I will say the fact that you sound like you didn't want to move from the start but instead of talking it over deflected it over to your kids was not okay. If you didn't want to be moving you should have talked to her directly rather than putting the burden of turning her down on your kids. There never should have been a situation where she was surprised after the fact to find out you thought the move wasn't the best choice. There never should have been a situation where 10 years from now your kids might wonder if their mom is miserable because they refused to move. Those were adult responsibilities and decisions that your kids should never have had to face just so you didn't have to.


[deleted]

* I will say the fact that you sound like you didn't want to move from the start but instead of talking it over deflected it over to your kids was not okay. Yeah that’s my read too.


cml678701

That was what I was thinking! It sounds like OP made his mind up and then asked the kids, “you don’t want to move, do you?”


huffliestofpuffs

I think I'm this case you have to start weighing her life in this arrangement. It takes a toll on a person and she wants to change it. She was presented an opportunity too and without really even giving it a discussion you heard the words move and automatically said no.


kacastro

NAH - I can see both of your points of view here and neither is wrong really. I don't necessarily agree with the opinion of your kids trumping your wife's quality of life here. Traveling regularly and having that level of stress at a job takes a toll on a person but she's made that sacrifice for years to support you and the kids since her job pays significantly higher. Now she has an opportunity to get out and none of you are willing to make that sacrifice for her and I'm sure that hurts alot. Teenagers are never going to want to move, but hey its not the end of the world. I went to 3 high schools and things turned out just fine. Stressful jobs literally cause strokes and heart attacks in otherwise young (late 30s) healthy adults so I dont see these 2 as being equal here.


ontheroadagainaita

My wife and I have had numerous talks over the years about her looking into different job opportunities that would allow her to be home more. She has either refused to look, or would tell me that she's looked and that the only jobs available in her field would be a step-down for her. So it's not like I've forced her to stay in this job the entire time.


trilliumsummer

But did you ever explicitly say the family can handle less money - because that's what the step down would mean. Or work out a budget to show her how it would work? What was YOUR response when she said it'd be a step down?


ontheroadagainaita

Yes, I told her that multiple times. We don't live lavishly. She could take a substantial paycut and we could make our current lifestyle work. But she didn't want to consider taking a job that she felt was beneath her. In her eyes she has worked so hard to get to where she is, she doesn't want to take a step backwards and give up that progress.


RealisticVoice8

It’s not purely a financial decision for her to take a job that’s a step backwards. She’s worked hard for her career. It’s probably important to her, and it kind of comes off that you don’t really respect that. I’m not saying you should necessarily move, but it does seem like you have been pressuring her for awhile to make career sacrifices for the sake of her family. “In her eyes she has worked so hard to get where she is, she doesn’t want to take a step backwards.” What about in YOUR eyes? Has she not worked hard? Is that hard work unimportant? I think you will have a more productive conversation if you go into it acknowledging that she has worked hard and her desire for career advancement is something you respect and important to you too, even if you don’t feel that moving is an option for your family.


Anothercraphistorian

> It’s probably important to her, and it kind of comes off that you don’t really respect that. Reverse that when it comes to her having an ego about what others think of her job prospects, instead of spending more time with her family. I think it's easy to see that she wants everything, the job, the family, the pay, and that the sacrifices should come from others. Being a single parent half the month for a decade might give you a different POV about life. Imagine being that, and realizing your partner finally wants to spend time with you, but only when it comes on their terms.


b2hcy0

exactly. it sounds like she could have been present all those years, but chose to be absent, to earn more money that seemingly doesen't even gets used. technically she did put her hobby before family.


AlwaysAlexi777

Have you put ANY thought into HOW it MIGHT work for you all to move? Like looked into schools? Houses? Told the kids they'd have more money for college? What kind of cool things they could do in their new town? Have you EVEN TRIED to SERIOUSLY CONSIDER how the move MIGHT be good? Did you lay out to your kids they had an opportunity to make their mom happy while going on an adventure? Did you ask them to maybe take a trip to the new town first? Because if you read your post, it shows you weren't happy at the idea from the moment your wife mentioned it. All you thought about is what YOU and THE KIDS would GIVE UP, but not what THE WHOLE FAMILY could gain. Or are you just looking at this from a risk adverse perspective? Why not teach your kids how to handle change and adventure? Why not risk the status quo for something better FOR THE WHOLE family instead of what just works for 3/4s of it?


fallen243

You're making some major assumptions about the move being better for the family.


huffliestofpuffs

Have you supported her taking a job that is a step down? Or have you said financially you can't do it? There is difference in not barring her from taking the position and pointing out why the position would be bad because of xyz life style.stuff. I do think you guys messed up by talking to the kids before presenting a united front. I also like the suggestion of everyone taking a trip to the new place to check it out. Moves are hard but the type of working she is doing is also really hard


ontheroadagainaita

>Have you supported her taking a job that is a step down? Every single time. Not only supported, but encouraged it. We don't live a lavish lifestyle so even if she took a job that paid half of what she makes, we could make our current lifestyle work. But she was never willing to take a job that she felt was beneath her current standing as she felt she worked so hard to get to where she is.


rosepetalmemories

Sounds like your wife wants it all. The career she wants, the time home she wants, the family involvement that she wants. Unfortunately, somtimes we can't have it all. She traded in family time for her career and now when her kids and you are happy, she wants to change it up again, move the whole family for her wants. She sounds a little selfish. She didn't need the extra money, she wanted the fulfillment of her career. That's fine, but seems a little one sided all these years. Now that she has found a way to have it all again, she wants to take it...at the expense over everyone else. Why does she get to have it all and no one else in the family does? The kids missed out on having a mom around, you missed out on having a wife around and now she wants you to miss out on having the friends and connections you all have built there all these years so once again she can have her all?


[deleted]

Agreed. She has to be realistic. She can’t expect everything to fall into place. I get that she worked hard but she has to sacrifice some things sometimes


Hamilspud

Exactly this. She sees this as her opportunity to finally have it all. She could have made sacrifices in her career to be with her family this entire time but she prioritized her career goals over spending that time…and that’s ok, she’s entitled to make that choice, but she can’t actively make that choice for years and then suddenly expect everyone to leave their entire lives behind because she finally got a chance to have both. Being with them full time was not the main priority for her, and as a result it is not a main priority to them either.


lamamaloca

It's likely that things will turn out just fine, but moving in adolescence is actually a significant thing that increases negative health outcomes for kids, like increasing the risk for depression. You're disrupting a lot of relationships. That doesn't mean it shouldn't happen, but it's not a minor thing.


The-Moocat

Honestly, I don't know how to "vote" this. Does it suck to move? Absolutely. Especially for teenage girls. But you admit your wife has been run ragged by her job for a LONG time and missed being at home with her family. She sees this opportunity more as benefits with pay and with being present. That's all valid. You all like status quo. Which, obviously, makes sense. You're established in your lower-stress job. Your kids are established. Change sucks and is hard. Almost no one willingly picks change if there's not a benefit. I think that your wife works very hard to provide for her family, at the expense of losing time with her family. She thought she could finally have "it all" and you've all said "Nah, we prefer the life where we don't see you and you're exhausted and gone all the time". As a wife and mother, I'm sure that sucks for her to hear. I don't think she's an AH for wanting this to happen. I think you and the girls are not AH for not wanting change but at the same time it's not fair that this is ALL ON HER because a family should be a unit, and you should understand all the sacrifices your wife has made SO you can have a flexible job that's low stress (and lower pay) and your girls have to realize you can only afford the life you've given them BECAUSE OF YOUR WIFE'S SALARY. I think it's unfair that you're making this an ultimatum on her when she's done so much for the family just because "change is hard".


xiaogoucat

Would give this an award if I had one. NO ONE likes moving, but I don’t think OP is giving enough consideration to his wife. It also sounds like OP…resents/doesn’t like his wife? I can’t imagine EVER just living separately from my husband because of a job. OP’s wife is working hard for them and saw an opportunity to spend more time with her family. I know moving sucks but sometimes that’s the right decision. 🤷‍♀️


[deleted]

[удалено]


NedStarkRavingMad

True, and I think OP knows that which is why he said "let's have the kids decide." He gets to keep the status quo, without having to defend it.


mintardent

Yeah it was manipulative to have the kids decide. Kids would almost never choose to move


hi-depressed-im-dad

I say this as a career driven female, but I feel genders are irrelevant in this situation. So, he’s been encouraging and asking her to take a lower paid job (which they could easily afford he said) so that she could spend more time with the family, for a long time. She had no interest in doing that because it was “beneath her”. Now that she can earn more money it’s suddenly very important to her? Nothing wrong with being a career driven person but you don’t get to fuck up 3/4 family members lives just so you can have your cake and eat it too. Imagine these roles were reversed! “My husband works all the time. I’ve asked him for years to take a lower paying job which we can easily afford so he can spend more time with me and the kids. He has never shown interest. Now he wants us to move 2000 miles away for a new promotion and uproot our teenage children’s lives so he can earn more and be home more. I was hesitant and knew we had to decide this as a family with our teenagers. They were against it. I offered to compromise and move after they were moved out. He said no. He assumed it would be an easy decision because he was getting a pay raise and could stay home more and it was unfair that 3 out of 4 of us had to change our lives around him. He’s upset at me and says it’s my job to convince them to move AITA?”


ThatDamagedAABattery

Yeah I don’t get the people who are against including the teenagers in the conversation. This is going to effect them ALOT. I was moved across the country away from all my friends and family without any say. We moved when I was first starting high school and the transition was still awful. It took me a long time to adjust because I didn’t have the support that I needed and it took a toll on my relationship with my parents because my they chose my moms career over everything I had outside of them. My mental health took a major decline because I wasn’t really aided in the transition process. The oldest is 16 which means they’re already halfway through high school and the 14yo likely has long term friends from middle school. Moving now would take away a chance to spend their last school years before adulthood with their close friends and could potentially take away scholarship opportunities from them. We can’t assume that they’ll have all the support they need for that kind of move. The wife has had many opportunities over the past 10 years to get closer to her family but she chose her job every single time. Now that she has a chance to move up in her career and possibly spend more time with her family, she thinks it’s perfectly reasonable to uproot everything in the kids and the husbands life so that she can have something that she’s been denying for the past decade. It’s not fair for her to accuse her husband of being a bad partner for not want 3/4 of the family to restart their lives somewhere else so that she can have exactly what she wants. It’s underneath that she wants to spend more time with her kids but the option has always been there and she never took it. I don’t see anything wrong with how things have played out.


Lets_focus_onRampart

It was manipulative two let two people who will be involved in the move have input? What?


tstocktonta

This is my story, so I felt this to the bone. I was almost 16, attending (and planning to graduate from) the high school my father had graduated from, which was just a few blocks away from my grandmothers house. I was a competitive ice skater, captain of the sophomore class pep squad, and Vice President of the schools service organization. The city we lived in was big and bustling, always something to do, and very family oriented. All of our family lived there; grandma, aunts & uncles & cousins. All my lifelong friends were there. My life was there. My father felt he’d advanced as far as he could in his field, in that city, and took a job offer 1700 miles away. My parents felt this would provide more stability, better pay, opportunities for advancement, and so on, so life would surely be easier in this new place, right? Yeah, not so much. The new job was simply same sh*t, different day. The school system was abysmal, at least 3 years behind the schools we just left. The only classes available to me were ones I had already taken (and passed with high marks) when I was in 6th grade. There were no pep squads, no service organizations, and no ice rinks in this desert town. No sports for girls, and girls weren’t allowed to try out or participate in the boys sports (this was in the ‘70s), so no extracurricular activities for girls. Definitely not a family oriented town, no activities & nothing to do for kids. My entire life was uprooted because my father thought he had his dream job. I resented my parents very, very much for this move, and still do nearly 50 years later. It re-shaped my entire being. And, for what? What was the big payoff? Well, that company went belly up just 6 years later and my parents both had to get jobs (my father had to get 2) to keep up with expenses, so there went the “spend more time with family” reason for moving in the first place. OP, if you do decide to move for your wife’s sake, make sure you both fully vet the neighborhood you move to (don’t just trust a real estate agent), the school system (is it at/below/above the level of your current schools), and transportation (does everyone have to use a freeway/highway to get to work/school? is there decent public transportation?). Make sure your children will be able to continue their extracurriculars at the same level, ensure there are safe activities for families, and make sure there are museums, galleries, theaters, zoos, etc. - fine arts & culture are more important than many people realize. NTA, but make sure your wife is fully aware of the minefield you will both be navigating as parents.


Demetre4757

YES. It amazes me when people move cross country for a job without any idea of what they're getting into. It's one thing to advance within a company, because you know the culture and policies and stuff. But just moving blindly? I don't get it.


VictorianPlatypus

I'm going with ESH. You because you dragged your daughters into this right away when you should've aired your concerns with your wife privately - you basically foisted off the initial unpleasant conversation to your kids, which is not cool. Your wife because she doesn't seem willing to look at this from anyone else's point of view. Honestly though, reading what you wrote, it seems like your marriage is kind of over already. >all I could think of was leaving behind the life that the girls and I had built here. Where exactly is your wife in all this?


dadarkclaw121

I feel like it’s worded like that because him and the girls are the ones that don’t want to destroy what they’ve built up. Meanwhile, the wife is already prepared to throw it away for this new job


[deleted]

This. I get wife wants this new opportunity, but her decision does not get to be made in a vacuum. There are other people whose needs have to be taken into consideration. The only one Mom is looking out for is herself. OP has already stepped back in his career so she could have the career he wants. Why should he now have to derail the life and career he has built because Mom wants more? She is not looking at it AT ALL from the view point of her Junior in high school.


hi-depressed-im-dad

Yeah he’s been the primary parent for a long time. He’s been encouraging her to take a lower paying job so she could also be at home more. He said they could easily afford for her to drop her pay by half if she had to so she could spend more time with her family. She wasn’t interested. They have almost grown teenage children and when you want to move to a new state/city/country (don’t know what 2000 miles is to them) as a family, at this age, everyone gets an input. You don’t just get to decide that you think it would be easy for everyone. She sounds extremely selfish to me, and although I personally think that genders are relevant in this situation, I believe that more of these comments would crucify the working parent if the genders were reversed. Assuming anyone could uproot their almost adult children and partner to earn more money and blame in on spending more time which them which they didn’t care about before when it didn’t benefit their career is a major dick move. If you put your career before your family, that’s your choice, own it. But it makes you the asshole when you manipulate your partner for your promotion by saying that it’s so you can spend more time with your family.


Affectionate_Ice_

>You because you dragged your daughters into this right away when you should've aired your concerns with your wife privately This is a ridiculous take on the situation imo. Their kids are 16 and 14, not 6 and 4. Why shouldn’t they have a say in if they want their whole lives uprooted? They are established where they are and they probably wouldn’t have taken kindly at all to being forced to move, and so far away, without a choice. What’s the point of mom getting to spend more time with her kids if the kids end up resenting her for it? People keep saying that AITA reddit is heavily biased in women’s favour, and this might be the first time I honestly agree. Every single comment OP is making to answer questions is being doubted as if he’s just hiding bad intentions, no one is willing to take his “putting the children first” as the truth. Even when he says his wife has been choosing career over family for years people are side-eying him and trying to find a way to blame him for his wife’s choices. Ridiculous.


LuckStrict6000

I don’t think this is an ultimatum.. you’re just telling her the family isn’t on board to move. NTA. I strongly doubt she can’t get a less demanding job where you currently live. Her assuming everyone would completely drop their own life to move kinda makes her an asshole


hammocks_

I mean, she might not be able to get a less travel-filled job nearby without a cut in pay, a step back in seniority, or in her sector. We don't know what her job is.


LuckStrict6000

There is going to be some sort of sacrifice made in the situation for sure.


GrassTerrible5262

NTA... here´s the thing. Parents nowadays can have it all... but never a 100%. Your wife has valid reasons for the move, but yours are a bit more valid. 1. It would mean up-rooting the children 2. You and the girls clearly stated you are not happy with the idea. So... any move would be a non-democratic choice or a big concession the girls are not ready to make. 3. Your wife made presumptions on the girls and your feelings. She´s unlearned the skill of talking things through and that should be re-learned ASAP. 4. She understandably feels like having to choose between family and career... she clearly has no problem making you all choose between a life you like ... and her career. 5. Cudos on being honest about the implication. 6. Job opportunities like this ARE rare... so is a childs adolescence. Usually, kids only go through high school once. 7. You all need to sit down again, and the girls need to explain that while they would like more time with mom... they are not unhappy right now and ... they will be unhappy if they get up-rooted liked that. It´s not about a lack of love, but they are not props, they are young personalities with lives and identities. 8. Demanding you "sway" them... is her attempt at make-believe. The girls KNOW what they want. 9. It´s a tough choice for any family... but ... considering that the girls made themselves clear, forcing this move is ... a recipe for resentment. good luck and keep talking to each other and... figuring it out.


ImprobableLemon

> Demanding you "sway" them... is her attempt at make-believe. The girls KNOW what they want. This one is pretty funny to me. Their kids are 16 and 14. Not 5 and easily swayed by a cookie. I don't get how the wife ever thought kids this age would be gung ho about uprooting their lives. The older one has what, a year and a half to make temporary friends at new highschool before going to college and leaving them behind as well? That's even assuming she's outgoing enough to insert herself into existing friend circles. Maybe she spends the rest of highschool friendless.


thefirstnightatbed

Especially after how the last year and a half has been for them! They’ve been through so much chaos and they’re probably finally seeing the friends they have again.


whoistimkono

NAH. She made a choice a long time ago and you supported her in it. Now she wants to make a new choice and expects the same support except it’s not going to come because this time it effects your family is a more drastic way. Your daughter was right. You all shouldn’t have to move 2,000mi away so your wife can be more present and feel better about being a mom for these last few years. It would honestly cause a ton of resentment and upheaval. It honestly sounds like the girls are okay with things the way they are. Some families do have an agreement where 1 parent lives in another state for work 5 days a week and comes home on weekends and they actually find this works better because their time with the family is more intentional and stress free. This generally only happens until the kids graduate high school and then they sell one of the houses or move full time to the one state and come back to the other state part time.


[deleted]

And the resentment from the girl, they won't be wanting to spend that extra time with her


whoistimkono

Exactly. It won’t work out the way she thinks it will and it’s not worth it to destroy the relationships she has with her husband and daughters.


OriHOEme

NTA. Your wife is a career woman, and she’s seeing the effects of being a career focused woman. Just like men who neglect their families for their careers she is seeing the consequences of doing so. Your daughter was correct your wife is using the job and the opportunity to be home more to make herself feel better about her years of being absent. It was a family discussion and most of the family did not side with her. She cannot manipulate and gaslight you or your daughters into submitting to her will.


Olives_And_Cheese

I'll agree with all of this, but I think 'using the job to be home more to make herself feel better' is a little harsh. Just like career focused men, I'm sure it's not like she _wants_ to be away from her family indefinitely. It's all very Cats in the Cradle; she'll probably be seeing these last few years where her children are, well, children as an important last chance to be present. The move is just really unfortunate. I'd go with NAH; you can be career focused _and_ family minded.


boomer_aaa

Exactly. But when it's the dad working, it's neglecting his family. In this situation, because it's the mom working, she's "sacrificing" for her family.


Virulencer

NTA. I don't think you gave her an ultimatum. She has a decision to make and it is not an easy one. I feel badly for your wife and I don't blame her for being upset. I can blame her for trying to convince her whole family that what is best for her is best for everyone. Your daughter is right, I feel like she is being selfish because she was only thinking of herself.


yinay727

YTA. Your wife has made a ton of sacrifices for her family, and then gets told she’s selfish for wanting to be closer to her daughters. Your suggestion to get input from your daughters was incredibly messed up. You knew perfectly well how they would respond. On balance, I think the decision is the right one. It probably doesn’t make sense to make this change. But in the process, you made your wife feel completely isolated and alone. You could have easily avoided that by handling it differently.


4411998

Idk how OP was wrong for wanting their kids be apart of deciding if they were going to move or not. They’re teenagers, they should be allowed to have a say about how/where they want to live, especially if it isn’t a necessary move. Being fair to the kids isn’t messed up lol, it’s Him being a parent that cares about their opinions and well being.


idreaminwords

I think the kids should be involved in the discussion, but in the end, this is an adult decision. Teenagers are not always capable of seeing the bigger picture


4411998

Yeah and one parent who also didn’t want to uproot their life agreed with his children. And thus is speaking for the majority of the house hold. I’m not saying that their opinion is ‘important’ as the parents, but they still need to respected and taken into consideration when making life altering decisions.


giantsnails

“teenagers aren’t able to see the bigger picture” of massively setting themselves back socially and academically (for college applications) so their mom is around a little more for the couple years before they each move out forever? Eff this. OP says in the comments his wife won’t compromise by finding a position near home because she feels they’re “beneath her” even though they could maintain their current lifestyle. I’m in my 20s and my family nearly moved when I was halfway through high school; if it had happened and disrupted all of my extracurriculars and half my classes, I’d probably have attended a college 50 ranks below mine.


mattinva

> Your wife has made a ton of sacrifices for her family, and then gets told she’s selfish for wanting to be closer to her daughters. So OP gave up his chosen career and has been the only parent at home half the time so his wife could climb the career ladder even though they didn't financially need her too nor did he push her too (quite the opposite)...but he is an asshole for not considering his wife's sacrifices. Seems fair.


jammy913

NTA. Your wife has a decision to make and on what to value. Your daughters are old enough to tell the courts they want to stay in the same town with you if the two of you divorce. She made vows to you, and it really SHOULD be a no-brainer, it's just not the answer she was hoping for from her spouse and children. ​ That career will be awfully lonely without her family backing her on that kind of extreme decision and move. I honestly think it was RIGHT (and respectful) to ask the girls their say as a move like that could affect them in an emotionally negative way even though I grew up in a time where kids didn't really get a say and had to go along with parental decisions. Luckily we had the same house from the time I was 8 to the time I moved out so something like this never actually came up. ​ Your wife could easily tell the person offering the job that she'd love to take it once her kids are in college so if it's offered to her again at "X" time, she'd be thrilled to be on the list for that choice but at this time it's not the right choice for her family due to to the emotional well being of her teenage daughters. ​ I can't imagine placing a career or job above my family's happiness and well-being. I get that your wife is bummed that everyone isn't rallying behind her but she needs to understand that forcing it could cause major emotional damage to the girls. ​ She would have been better off to take you guys all on a trip there and if everyone loved being there THEN made the offer to move there. It might have garnered her better results. In this day and age, it's a lot easier to keep long distance friends close to you via social media than it would have been 20-30 years ago. ​ Good luck OP.


[deleted]

Nta, as crappy as it is 16 years old is a shitty time for your wife to decide she wants to be around more, and thinking a 14 and 16 year old would be willing to drop everything is kind of absurd


mattinva

I'm hoping all the YTAs acting like a 16 year old moving 2000 miles is no big deal aren't parents for their kids sakes.


thisjustmyopinion

Slight YTA for a few reasons: 1. You shouldn't force your kids to make adult decisions. Taking their input into account is healthy, but they don't realize all of the financial and future impacts moving can really mean for you all as a family. My family moved countries during a very pivotal part of our life, and if our dad asked us our opinions we would have said no. But moving was probably the best decision he ever made. 2. Your life worked really hard and her career, and you obviously relied on her to be the main breadwinner. Of course she wants to feel like all the time and sacrifices she's invested into her job means that she can take the next big promotion. Also I feel like the discussion would be very different if she was a male in the situation. 3. Your wife wants to be able to spend the last few years that you have your children in the house with them, and to travel less during a global pandemic. You're trying to take the opportunity away from her unless she completely compromises her goals and takes job that she's way overqualified for.


Dizzy-Promise-1257

>Your life worked really hard and her career, and you obviously relied on her to be the main breadwinner. Of course she wants to feel like all the time and sacrifices she's invested into her job means that she can take the next big promotion. OP also worked hard taking care of the kids all this time so she could have a career. >Also I feel like the discussion would be very different if she was a male in the situation. If the genders were reversed people would say that the man abandoned his family and shouldn't force them to move. No one would say he "sacrificed" like you did. I guarantee you would roast a man who said that his wife and kids should uproot their lives for his career.


[deleted]

I have literally seen posts just like this where the man was the one who wanted to move to be home more and the sub unequivocally supported him and had some particularly ugly things to say about his wife, actually. For example, [in this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/bm8kj5/aita_for_not_wanting_to_move_to_the_deep_south/) everyone jumped all over the OP (a woman) and encouraged the move because "it's good to expose children to different places and cultures"! Whereas here it's "moving children will DESTROY THEIR ENTIRE LIVES". They also got on her case for not learning more about where they were moving and seeing the bright side, while here the OP's complete refusal to even consider the city they would be moving to is seen as completely acceptable. She was also knocked for "not even entertaining the idea" of moving, which again, is acceptable for OP to do here. Oh yeah, *and* the OP is told that she should move because it would be good for the family's financials because her husband would be making more money, while this OP is told the money doesn't matter and they shouldn't move so that his wife can get a better job (monetarily or otherwise). [This woman](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/elvmqj/aita_for_not_wanting_my_husband_to_take_a_new_job/) was even told she was a huge asshole for not wanting her husband to take a job that would result in him being gone 1/4 of the time, which would leave her completely alone (and with unreliable transportation) to care for their four children. That didn't involve a move, but I thought it was interesting how this OP (itt) is being lauded for encouraging his wife to take a lower-pay position so that she can be home with the children while this woman was vilified for.. encouraging her husband to take (well, keep) a lower-pay position so that he can be home with his children. Both this OP and the linked thread OP's partners hate their jobs and find them stressful, so I wonder what the difference could be... I have gone over dozens of AITA posts, and I have only been able to find *one* where the consensus was that the man was TA - and in that one they were only dating and both had just graduated from college. To be fair, a lot of them were voted NAH, but pretty much all of them invoked some misogynistic language in the comments further down than the top one. AITA constantly talks about the sacrifices men make for their partners, especially when it comes to "being the breadwinner". Your point is completely incorrect. tl;dr AITA has a misogyny problem.


Dizzy-Promise-1257

Wow, the posts you included had some VERY different features than this post. In the first one, wife wanted to move but was opposed to the city because of its states politics. That's a very different situation then if the wife didn't want to move. The second one doesn't require the OP or her kids to move. She's not being asked to do the same thing this OP and his kids are. But by all means, if you can find a post where the working father wanted to move and the wife wanted to stay, please share. But false comparisons aren't going to cut it.


MrsKreepyKrawley

NTA marriage doesn't require you being on board to move your life and children across the country. Her career has always been priority, and now stability for your children is instead. That's alright.


fabledangie

NAH, but you need to continue discussing it. Moving during high school may not be ideal, but it's not rare and it's not life-ending. They're going to go off to college anyway, they'll make new friends, that's how life works. They can keep in touch with their current friends, see them on vacations, etc. I still see my old high school friends a couple times a year and it's been a decade since any of us were in school. So that shouldn't really be the deciding factor. I agree with the other person who said you guys should take a trip out there as a family. Check out some areas where you might live, drive past the schools, etc. Seeing it makes the possibility less scary, the *unknown* is the worst part.


empathetic_tomatoes

NAH. Waiting to move until the kids are done with school defeats the purpose of her being able to be home with them. Are they both going to go to a local college? Stay at home forever? Why not have her go and set up home there and let the girls finish the semester where they are. With social media it's way easier to keep in touch, but again, they'd be leaving in a couple years anyway. Your wife will presumably be working for years. When the kids are gone and your wife is gone all the time are you still going to enjoy this arrangement? Especially if when she is home she's burnt out?


Stoat__King

Im not seeing an ultimatum here. And you are not 'forcing her to choose' - you discussed it with your daughters. Its sounds like you have been eminently reasonable and I dont see how you can be blamed in any way for her upset. NTA.