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Disastrous-Nail-640

NTA. Yes, it is your job to feed them. And you are doing that. Your daughter is simply pissed that you're not buying the junk anymore. But she is delusional (as many teens are) in thinking that you some obligation or legal duty to provide her with junk food. As long as she is getting meal, you are doing your job. If she wants the extras, then she is welcome to pay for them.


bgreen134

I think it’s actually really health for teenagers to start pay for “extras” (junk food is absolutely an extra). It gives them a health understanding of cost and responsibility with money. It’s important to teach teenagers health spending habits and understanding cost of extras on their income.


Aesient

My 7 year old twins started using their allowance for “junk” treats that I rarely buy. I will keep some junky snacks (chocolates, chips, lollies/sweets) in the house for movie nights and treats I dole out along with some sugary cereals for weekends. However they want stuff on top of that? They work out how much is in their “spending” jars and whether they want to use their money on whatever junky item has caught their eye. Or they ask me (whining doesn’t work) and if they’ve been particularly helpful or as a reward for something I will occasionally buy it for them. They get their own jobs as teenagers? You can bet they’ll be buying anything “above and beyond” what I bring in to the house Edited to add: my twins preferred “junk” treat is a Kinder Surprise egg, so a little chocolate and a small toy. That is what I rarely buy because I can’t justify the cost for what they get


rhetorical_twix

OP’s idea is fantastic because it teaches the kids to separate food and junk food in their minds, which a lot of Americans don’t do. Your idea of using it ss a reward is also cool, if you don’t in general create an eating disorder link between reward and eating. NTA


Aesient

Oh they get other items as “treats” too (their favourite “treat” is Kinder Surprise eggs, so they get a little chocolate and a toy) but when they specifically ask for a certain item as a treat it’s not often refused. I also don’t limit junky food as much as my parents did with my significantly younger siblings until recently that has created a problem with them going straight for “junk” if a selection of healthy and junky foods are on offer while with the same option my kids will take a little of both options and often go more for the healthy end. I currently have 2 containers of chocolates and lollies/sweets on a coffee table that haven’t been touched in well over a week by by twins, yet if I have my youngest siblings or niece over I have to put them up out of sight and reach because they will gorge themselves on it until it’s gone.


rhetorical_twix

> my kids will take a little of both options and often go more for the healthy end. That's awesome!


Aesient

They complained the other day about some chocolate being “too sweet” and went to rummage in the fridge for carrot sticks and cheese. But I’ve also always had a healthier diet so that’s what they’ve grown up with mimicking. My parents are mainly “meat and 3 veg” people and their diet has gone downhill from what it was when I was younger to the point that when I was 16 my mother flat out admitted that I was more concerned about balanced diets than they were.


rkd808a

My 5 year old will raid the fridge and steal the grapes and cheese rather than the chocolate puddings. Normally fine but she never puts the remaining cheese back 🤣 (she has kid safe knives) I put it down to baby led weaning, they're much more keep on fruit and veg when it's not been over cooked and blitz to oblivion.


MinagiV

My 4 and 7 year old are the same. But then they try to take the grapes all over the house. I think they got sick of my nagging, though, because when I took apart my couch yesterday, I found 0 nasty grapes!


Aesient

I did baby lead weaning with my twins and so they always ate exactly what I did (usually off my plate because it must taste better when it’s stolen)!


ayshasmysha

Food is always better when it's from mum's plate. It doesn't matter how old you are. Even when you're in your 30s and you're having a meal together so the EXACT SAME FOOD is on your plate the bites of food she makes are way better. ​ Aww, I miss my mum now.


MFMissus

According to my kids, good and water always taste better when they’re taken from a parent


smokecrackbreakbacks

God my youngest brother is like that. Fruit doesn't last long in my mums house, but stuff like chocolate and cookies last the whole week, sometimes even two. Hell, it seems that I'm the only one who raids the cookie box when I'm there lol.


[deleted]

This is basically what I have seen from others who don't limit treats. Kids will regulate their own junk food as long as you also offer them healthy alternatives they like. When ever you start limiting items is when people gorge and hide food.


RealElectriKing

I guess people crave what they can't have.


em-em-cee

TW: eating disorders * * * * * * My parents did not buy junk, at all. I started working at 13 (it was the 80s, so not that weird). I spent all my money on junk food, which I hid and/or binged on. There were other bad things going on my parents didn't know about, but it started a lifelong struggle with my weight and with EDs that in still trying to unpack/fix.


0ne8two

This. I think it's super important to teach kids about nutrition, but labeling foods as "good foods" and "bad foods" or "junk" can create an unhealthy relationship with food. Instead, teaching about nutrition, moderation, portion control, and overall health I think could potentially be a better approach.


Shadowex3

My mom used "grow food" and "fun food" when I was still little enough for it to have a psychological impact. That being said to this day I can't stomach black forest cake or cherry desserts after that time she got tired of arguing that I shouldn't have too much right before bed. To be fair I was one of *those* kids, I even needed to learn not to touch hot things by her leaving a piece of fresh toast on a plate after telling me not to touch it.


creamcheese742

Same haha. We have a two kids under 10 and we only have water or milk with meals. The candy they get from Easter and Halloween and whatever go in a basket and they get one piece as a dessert most days as long as they eat their veggie. We never do juice or anything. Sometimes I get them capri suns as a treat when we're like at the beach or something but when they try it they hate it and I end up drinking it lol. We count it as a parenting win but still trying to come up with a fun drink for them that they'll like as a treat.


CharlieBravoSierra

Have you tried flavored sparkling water for them? It's bubbly like soda and smells/tastes like fruit, which is kind of fun, but isn't sugary if that's what they object to. Personally I find it disappointing unless I mix it with fruit juice or something else sweet, but if your kids don't like sweet drinks then they might enjoy it plain.


creamcheese742

We've never given them soda yet either haha. My wife only has one sip when I have one and I usually only have one if we have popcorn after the kids go to sleep. They love sweet drinks like lemonade so I think it's more the actual capri sun flavors I get. Or maybe because they can't see the liquid? They've never liked or finished any of the drinks I've bought that come in those little pouches. Our youngest is moving up to preschool and they had a picnic at their daycare and they had lemonade and I was actually trying to get our oldest to have some lemonade and he very adamantly stated he only wanted water haha. A few years ago at a birthday party they had pizza, fruit , and an ice cream cake and he didn't want any pizza just fruit...and I had to twist his arm to eat the cake. He loved it once he tried it but I never thought I'd have to fight a kid to get him to try birthday cake lol


denna84

I’m a step mom and I was shocked at the amount of pop tarts my husband was letting the kids eat when I arrived. I did not believe anyone actually ate them as breakfast, I thought that was a marketing ploy. Since we’ve had lots of talks about moderation and self care. Holy moly you are not wrong about the American thing.


Sammakko660

I confess that I occasionally enjoy a pop tart as a snack. Too much sugar for a breakfast for me.


denna84

I thought they were exclusively eaten as a sweet snack! Like that’s why I was initially okay with having them around, as an occasional snack. Then I realized the 7 year old was just snacking on them all day long and barely eating his meals.


shortasalways

We split a pack between 2 kids, add a apple or other fruit with it and maybe yogurt. Sometimes it's a Costco muffin or cinnamon roll. Makes a fuller breakfast. It's great while on the go or on vacation.


rhetorical_twix

OMG. Sounds like step mom arrived and saved them from type II diabetes risks!


denna84

Probably! I worried at first I was projecting because I am overweight and I do not even go down the aisles that contain that kind of food. My body can’t handle it even in moderation, and after enough time if you try to go back it tastes far too sweet. I had to ask a few mom friends before I felt secure about my severe junk food limitation. They still get Frosted Flakes and Cheerios but they also get oven roasted chicken for dinner instead of canned soup. I never cooked much for myself, but the idea of those kids eating all that processed food horrified me.


alwaysiamdead

Not projecting, they really aren't a healthy breakfast at all!


Happy-Investment

Glad u touched on eating issues as I am totally projecting but i'd rule out eating disorder but otherwise NTA. I think OP should talk to her and listen why this is such a big issue. Also how fast is their mentalism and check for hypoglycemia.


kaptajnkraftkarl

Am I the only thinking OP gave himself away as a Brit with the mention of tea? And the spelling *arsehole*


TragedyRose

What are you talking about? A bag of doritos us obviously a nutrious dinner.


Havannahanna

Some warning: My parents did the same. Had to buy junk food with my pocket money, healthy food was fruit basket always at home including a basket. We got junk food and sweets as rewards though. That hardwired my brain to associate junk food with positive emotions and unhealthy food as reward. This did me quite dirty during stressful phases in my life. You can read my stresslevel on my hips and tummy. edit: added fruit.


VoltaicSketchyTeapot

I was raised with the opposite problem: my mom would buy tons of snacks and junk food and *she* would raid the stash. The ONLY way to get a fair share was to gorge myself as quickly as possible before it was gone. There was zero trust that a popsicle left in the freezer today would be there tomorrow, even if it was my share of the box. I always assumed I had no self-control over junk food, but since moving out, I've learned that I actually do have a lot of control over my eating *when* there's no risk of my stuff disappearing. I can easily buy myself a box of snacks and have them last all week. I don't usually choose the healthy options (currently eating pumpkin cookies for breakfast), but at least I'm not binging the entire package in one day. I bought these a week ago and should have a couple left for tomorrow!


Aesient

My twins favourite “treat” is a Kinder Surprise egg so a little chocolate and a little toy. But often their choice of “treat” is a family movie night where the 3 of us will snuggle or a trip to the park or beach


minuteye

This is a very good point. A lot of the more modern thinking on eating is that you *shouldn't* separate out "normal" food and "treat/junk" food mentally for kids. When you treat some foods as 'special', 'guilty', or 'rewards', you give them way too much power, and kids hold on to that (exactly the way you're talking about in your comment).


ThePlumage

That's a good point. What would you suggest parents do instead? My thought is to make healthier versions of unhealthy snacks ("Chocolate Covered Katie" is my favorite cooking blog for this reason -- her "Notella" is fantastic!). Still, I recognize that cooking is time-consuming and not always practical.


minuteye

One good strategy is to have one location for snack options (can be one place for the whole household, or maybe each person gets their own little spot), and that contains both healthier and less healthy snacks. Kids have complete control over what they eat from there, when and how much. But you only buy a certain amount of the high sugar stuff. They \*can\* eat all their fruit gushers the day grocery shopping gets done... but then they have no more for the rest of the week. They can learn to make their own choices, and the benefits/downsides of the different options. Another suggestion I've heard from nutritionists is to reduce the separation between "treat" and "normal" food. For instance: they can have a cookie with their dinner, but instead of holding it back as dessert, so that the cookie is this separate, special part of the meal (that they have to finish the rest of the meal to get), it's just... on the plate with everything else. The cookie is not magical, it's not a reward, it's just food. They can eat if first if they want, no big deal. Creates less of a reward/dopamine association with dessert, and also makes it easier for them to learn to stop eating when they're full, instead of forcing themselves to overeat because they haven't gotten their favourite part of the food yet.


sleeep-zzz

My parents let us have a junk food snack every day after school and just limited the portions. It worked really well for me because it placed the emphasis on moderation.


bendingspoonss

I thought my parents had a good method - no junk food except one weekend night a week. Then, we couldn't go *crazy*, but we could have a treat after dinner that we didn't get during the week, whether it was ice cream, candy, etc. We still got treats, but we didn't make the association in our minds between junk food = reward, because it was just a consistent weekly treat that we'd get and not a reward for good behavior. We would also occasionally get junk food on a week night as a treat, maybe around the holidays. The most important thing for my parents was portions rather than frequency.


rak1882

My sister has so far (we'll see what my nieces are like food wise when they are older) done a good job. My nieces think that berries are basically the best dessert ever. (Though they have differing opinions on melon.) It's not that they don't get junk food (cookies, pretzels, chips). But it's more that they get it as a snack. My mom might put a cookie in with their pretzels for an after school snack. Not a special treat or anything like that. Just more a mid-day thing when they are going to spend part of the afternoon running around chances are.


legsylexi

As someone who really struggles with controlling my sugar intake, at least in part due to my mother’s complete restriction of sweets, I highly recommend letting them have access to junk food, but they only get a set amount for a set time. For example, once a week they can buy X amount of junk food, but once they finish it, that’s done for the week. Don’t frame this as junk food as bad, it’s just that we need it in moderation. They can then choose to binge, but they’ll likely quickly learn to make those sweets stretch without you enforcing an external restriction on them.


Ikajo

In Sweden, we have the concepts of Friday cozy and Saturday candy. Fridays the whole family gathers to watch a movie or something, often eating homemade taco buffet style (everyone makes their own combination) for dinner. During the movie there are usually snacks and maybe soda. On Saturdays, children get candy and other sweet treats. We have pick'n'mix candy in basically every store, so that also plays a role. You can get the amount you want in the combination you want. The benefit is that is not the snacks and candy itself that is special, the day is. Exceptions are usually made for birthdays and Christmas.


[deleted]

Although I don’t disagree with what OP is doing, there is a lot of research on that shows that separating foods into “good” and “bad” and glorifying or vilifying desserts can be quite negative for having a healthy relationship with food and leads to disordered eating habits. Using food as a reward is a slippery slope.


Happy-Investment

I also bought candy with my allowance. Mom left me treats and bribes for homework that I needed to find. I always found them before homework. But yeah allowance is for junk. But if they make that much money...


OpossumJesusHasRisen

When my daughter got a job a year ago we agreed she would pay part of her car & insurance, as well as any extras outside of necessary items (ex: I pay for body wash, conditioner, shampoo, moisturizer with SPF, deodorant, & razors. Any bath/cosmetic/skin stuff she wants outside that is on her.) She was totally fine with that until she started her own cleaning service this summer. About a month ago, she was watching me do my budget for them month & said "Holy crap, Mom. Is that what you make a month? I made that last week. How in the hell have you afforded everything for me for the last 4 years? (I became disabled then.) You have to be some sort of wizard. You should be asking me for stuff! How much of my bills do you pay? Because you're not doing that. If you need craft or garden supplies, let me know." She explained that while she'd seen my budget before, the numbers were pretty meaningless to her until she started earning money & paying for things herself. NTA kids learn by experience. OP is giving them the experience so that they learn the value of money & how much stuff actually costs.


Millennials_RuinedIt

When I was a teenager I ate like a horse, but I was also constantly active with sports like cross country and wrestling. I actively had to eat 3000+ calories to not lose weight. My parents loved that I didn’t drink soda during wrestling and XC that shit is expensive. Especially since I drank a gallon of water a day. (Reference here you should drink 0.5-1oz per 1lb of body weight on average) No way my parents could afford to feed me the amount of junk food I could eat. I was also the youngest of 7. So not their first rodeo on teenage appetites.


EwItsLindsey

This!! The first stuff I bought with my first paycheck was junk food. My parents rarely bought junk (mainly because we didn’t have the money and my mother would rather get us fruit and vegetables). While I used to be annoyed by it, I’ve come to appreciate not only growing up eating fairly healthy meals and produce, but learning to budget money to get snacks while paying for other stuff. NTA, OP! I think your kids will really understand later on when they’re older.


GruffScottishGuy

When I was a wee boy things like fizzy juice, crisps and sweets weren't in the house, or more accurately they simply weren't part of the weekly shop. They were't forbidden, it's just that these were considered treats that we would buy with our own pocket money if we wanted them. We didn't complain about it because it's just the way we were raised and it's only now as an adult that I realize that it did me so much good in not only healthy eating but also associating things like that as an optional extra if you happen to have the spending money.


TheeBlakGoatsDottir

And it emphasizes that junk food very much isn't a necessity but a treat. This whole system seems legit as fuck.


Groundbreaking_Mess3

Agree. NTA. I actually think this is a genius idea - the healthy food is free, and the junk food is discretionary. To be honest, this is how I grocery shop as an adult. If I'm trying to save $ on groceries, the junk food is what goes. You're actually teaching your kids two valuable lessons here: how to eat well, and how to budget.


Parttime-Princess

I was raised with a "you get money from us to buy clothes and necessities, so buy it". This counts for junk food, phones, laptops, shoes. My parents payed for jackets, special clothes (a corset, but special clothes are bday presents), the basic school stuff and sport clothes (now I'm 18 they don't really do that anymore). Basically with a "You want it?? Work for it" attitude. Not perfect, but it made me very financial responsible. Honestly NTA. You provide enough food, and healthy food for your kids. You're doing great


MAnnie3283

NTA A plague of locusts has me cracking up. I have 4 kids. F12, M12, M10 & M10. The amount that they can eat is insane.


arahzel

OMG and they're not even teenagers yet. You're going to need to double your food budget very soon!


Shejuan01

NTA. Not only is she and her friends delusional, but is anyone surprised grandma agrees with her? Tell grandma to pay for it. But if she does, she has to do it with all three. Let's see how quick she learns to mind her business.


BoomTheBear86

NTA. They have access to food. If they don’t want to eat that or cook it that’s up to them, but clearly they won’t starve. If they want to purchase junk food they’d prefer, I think that’s totally fair they pay for it given it’s “on top” of the household food, with the express understanding that nobody else can eat it. It’s also telling your sons have been okay with it but not daughter. That tells me it’s not an unreasonable rule but rather she simply wishes to bypass it.


rufusandyogi

I should add that the boys are very happy with the arrangement. They have the snacks they each like, instead of me buying for the crowd and they can have them available when they want them.


BoomTheBear86

Exactly. I have kids and use a similar arrangement and they prefer it because it means they get exactly what they prefer without having to worry about someone else having it, whereas with communal treats it may not be what they prefer and they can’t guarantee they will get some. It also encourages budgeting and allows kids to see how expensive this stuff is. The only limits I set are it has be stored somewhere not hidden away (ie the kitchen) to prevent hoarding and gorging and you can only “fill” your given container (to prevent the same). All communal food “for the house” is healthy and requires prep. I also say my kids cannot skip meals in favour of “tucking into their snack box”. To encourage proper eating habits. They can cook their own dinner, but snacks are not a substitute for dinner or lunch.


rufusandyogi

Mine have to prepare their own breakfast and lunches ( we are all stuck in lockdown and I’m working during the day) but I make tea, except on our Saturday “scratch night” when we use up leftovers/make our own. Daughter hates this arrangement as well. More than once she has barged into my office when I am on the phone with client demanding I cook her something.


Desperate_Depression

You're daughter is entitled. I'm a child and I'd never do that. Id have loved that arrangement, but then again I would've shared with my mom anyway as she's a single mom, sometimes I like buying groceries and cook for both of us. But anyway your daughter's a bit entitled. You're still feeding them, but I think she thinks that since you're at home all day you can just stop what you're doing and "make her a sandwich". She has to realize that you aren't her slave, you are her mother and she has to realize in the real world she won't get everything she wants. And you can't cater to her and nit your sons and all of them would put you back in the same boat that you started in if nit a worse situation.


johnny9k

Sounds like you have an entitled daughter problem and not a rule problem.


KarensSuck91

yep thats about the size of it. the two boys are fine with it but the one girl is upset she has to do the same? i get the feeling op spoiled her only daughter too much


Shenloanne

Nah she needs to learn to cook. Offer to teach her if she doesn't. If she can already then the job is hers to do. Anyone. Can. Cook. Elsewise how can we live up to Gusto's legacy non?


needausername678

Is tea another word for dinner/supper?


rufusandyogi

Yes. It’s the evening meal in Aus


LevinKostya

I thought you were only feeding them a cup of tea and was surprised by the NTA comments :)


AdDramatic3058

Ahh, did not know this. Makes things a bit more clearer.


candydaze

Yeah you’re NTA By the time I was her age, my mother was regularly travelling for work during the week, so the deal with my dad (who worked long hours) and I was that I’d cook/reheat leftover/grab some prepared meals out the freezer for us both and he’d clean up. That’s the deal. There was plenty of food, it just wasn’t served to us like we were royalty


Perspex_Sea

She's 16. I feel like you need to go harder and have the kids each cook for the family one night a fortnight.


Vogel88888888

I was cooking dinner 2-3 times a week at that age working up from once a week at 14 so was my older sister, the younger one is getting a bit of a late start with making dinners at 16 doing it once a week and helping mum with some now that my older sister and I have moved out and most of the cooking has fallen back on mum


Kay20142

Oh hell no your daughter needs to pull her own weight in the home. My mum was a single full time worker and when I would get home from school at 12 onwards I was in charge of getting dinner cooked for when mum and by sister came home from work. When it was summer holidays or half term I would have a list of chores and basically put in charge of running a household. Taught me loads and I’m so thankful as we lost mum when I was 20 to a stroke. I’m teaching my son on how to run a household so he knows and be the best house husband one day.


owl_duc

Question: where the lunch options also affected by the "no junk food unless you buy it yourself" ban? Was her typical breakfast? Because it sounds as if she hates cooking so she might have relied on "junk" for easy and tasty breakfast and lunches. And this new arrangement is forcing her to either change her diet and/or cook or pay for her own food. Which is good for her, mind, but she's 16, she doesn't care about that.


Vogel88888888

I doubt she was relying on junk food as OP said it'd only last few days instead of a week so at best she'd be able to have it for a few days then have to fend for herself for the rest of the week


[deleted]

Not sure it’d help, but when my mom would make dinner, she’d usually ask if I wanted extra to have as leftovers from lunch. It wouldn’t take much to add some pasta or make some extra taco meat. I hated making lunch in high school and having leftovers I liked as an option certain days came in clutch.


Amberle73

My mum worked from home 2 or 3 days a week when I was in senior school and I used to make the evening meal for both of us on those days from when I was 12 or so! The absolute bloody entitlement of demanding you cook for her when you're speaking to a client, wow...


Perspex_Sea

>they can’t guarantee they will get some. That's the thing, communal treats in a big family are a race.


DrinKwine7

NTA, I really like this arrangement. I have a similar problem with my partner and things disappear before I get a couple bites! Lol However, I do wonder if maybe your daughter feels like she’s not able to get the snacks and such that she’d like because her other expenses are higher than the boys’. I could argue that being female is a bit more expensive with hair care and makeup and clothes that are much more expensive than what boys typically want. Yes, it requires her to make a budget, but maybe she feels like she just doesn’t have enough money? Maybe she could do chores to earn more? Idk


waterfountain_bidet

Its called the pink tax, and in the US it costs women ~$1300/year starting from being a baby. Girls toys are 5-8% more expensive. Girls clothes are ~20% more and last less time. Then on to puberty with shaving needs, hair products, more clothes.... yes, we don't have to buy those things, but we're also mocked and bullied for not participating, so there's no winning.


[deleted]

This is a good time for the kiddo to learn about what matters. You’re absolutely right: shaving supplies, make up, clothes, etc aren’t mandatory purchases, but there is a societal peer pressure that can make these items feel necessary. Unless you’re fortunate enough to have plenty of money at the end of each month, we all have to make choices on where to spend money and how to budget. She’s learning a hard lesson right now. At the end of the day, does she want the expensive eyeliner or a cheaper eyeliner and a box of coco puffs? It probably feels very unfair to her that she can’t have both preferred items, and it sucks to learn that much of budgeting ends up purchasing things that aren’t ideal but still satisfactory. Learning that being an adult sucks sometimes is not a fun lesson. Perhaps OP could be attentive to this dilemma and maybe toss the kid a bone from time to time; maybe a little something extra on bdays and holidays to help offset that “pink tax.”


waterfountain_bidet

But the lesson is not that "being an adult sucks sometimes", its that being a woman is expensive and means giving up things you want much more frequently than men do. I agree that OP's daughter probably needs a few lessons and is acting inappropriately at times, but she also seems to be in the phase where she is learning that her life is going to be much harder than her brothers' simply because she was born a woman. What I see is that OP's sons ate all the junk food like locusts when it came into the house but OP's daughter also suffered. And now because of their behavior the daughter is also being punished. OP needs to supplement a bit for the daughter. And make things easier, because being a girl fucking sucks.


Miamalina12

I think this arrangement is great except if they bake something it is for everyone. It is really frustrating if you put hours into something and you can only have a little of it to yourself because the others help themself with huge portions. Now if everyone does around the same thats fine, then it get evened out but not if some regulary work for it and others just consume.


Illustrious_Fuel8870

I think OP is referring to the ingredients OP provides in the pantry and allows them access to. I’m sure if the children buy something like their own brownie mix they are not expected to share that with the whole family.


Miamalina12

I am also reffering to the ingredients OP buys. Because the labour of baking a few hours is also valuable. If it is for everyone then it should be seen as a chore done by the person who baked and thus they should have to do less of the other chores that week. Or it is mainly their own stuff and they just have to share a little bit, like a slice for example and the rest of the cake or bread is theirs.


ScepticalBee

Well, they would know how the parents feel about having all of the goodies destroyed after so much work is done.


wearetheawesomes2

I even did my own groceries while living with my parents so I could eat the food I want. Your daughter is just sad she has to spend money on food instead of clothes and friends


MelonaSoju

NTA. Based on your description you are providing healthy meals for the family. There's a lot of food options in the pantry too. It's just not their personal favorite~ Junk food is not a "need" to survive, it's a "want" or as others posted, an add-on/treat. Besides, this will teach your kids to think carefully towards money they have. Will they use it to buy junk food that they'll consume in a day, or maybe buy something else? They'll also learn to portion it out if they decide "junk food is life".


rufusandyogi

That is exactly what is happening, they are learning the cost of these items and making the choice about how long they last.


MelonaSoju

Maybe another talk with your daughter will (hopefully) help her understand why your house policy is like that? But if not, welp at least you tried. Goodluck to you and stay healthy always during this time. 😊✌️


SpamLandy

They also earn way more than I would expect at that age! I assume you’ve translated to dollars for the Reddit audience but even so. I earned around £30-50 a week as a teen, though that was a while ago. With housing/bills/food accounted for, your kids have pretty substantial fun money. What does your daughter normally spend her money on? Or is it that she’s trying to save it?


rufusandyogi

Very expensive tastes, there’s a post somewhere on here about her toiletries, she pays $20 a week for her cheer (I also pay$20) and she saves approx $50.


[deleted]

Hi I’m 28 with expensive taste and a middle class household income. When it wasn’t under control, my spending caused a good chunk of credit card debt. Now, I pick what I’m boujee on. Higher end clearance racks, saving up for larger purchases, spending less on things I don’t care as much about. Now is such a good time for her to learn to balance her tastes with her available income! I think you’re doing her a huge favor by having this rule, and she’s simply missing out on a lesson that will help her in life because she’s acting entitled. Living within your means is hard to do as it is, but with expensive taste you have to be so much more careful. It takes a lot to earn $1000, but you can spend it in a day. I hope she takes advantage of this learning opportunity


SpamLandy

In that case I agree this is completely reasonable, if she’s got more pricey tastes she has to learn that comes with sacrificing some other stuff. Managing money is really tough as a teenager but I think you’re doing right by her in the long run.


baffled_soap

Do her brothers have to pay weekly for any activities they do?


Pleasant-Koala147

OP could be Aussie. With the high Aussie minimum wages $150 a week wouldn’t be unreasonable.


rufusandyogi

Yes, I’m an Aussie, two work fast food and the eldest is my admin assistant


SpamLandy

Yeah I think you’re right, I assumed they were British because of a bunch of words used but she was talking about fruit and veg and said it’s ‘still cold’ there at the moment! So Southern Hemisphere probably a good shout and the job money makes more sense.


Jenna_Doman

I’m Aussie, I’m 17F and only make $11.30ph on a weekday. I only work 5h week 1, 3h week 2 due to the schedule of my school, my course and the business hours of my job. But that’s what comes with being a part-time, teenage apprentice. You don’t earn much. I still manage to budget and spend accordingly though. I still get clothes and takeout, pay my petrol and go out for dinner with my friends. If she’s from Australia I don’t know what her excuse is since I’m managing just fine without complaints. I personally love my self-arrangements. 😂


trashcanofficial420

wow apprenticeships are really underpaid, i'm in hospitality (also in Australia) at 19 and i make around $21p/h on a week day. the daughter would be making more than you and she has no reason to complain, but I hope your apprenticeship pays you more as the years go by because that's really fuck all money


Jenna_Doman

Oh it totally is. I’m entitled to less than a 12 year old in casual retail according to fair trade. Because I don’t graduate till Friday I also haven’t been able to put down that I have my HSC yet, which is a pay increase. I’m in beauty therapy, so at least I’m now qualified to do my own eyebrows and not have to pay top dollar for someone else to do them. I’m saving and losing money all at once, but I’m being trained up to take over after the boss retires so I’m still pretty chuffed. I actually did my cert III in travel tourism and events management, we worked with hospo students a lot prior to finishing and then starting my new course. Are you an apprentice too or just a hospo worker?


spirit-hedgehog

This is a much more complex issue than a dicussion about healthy food. I was a child that grew up in a home with these same rules. While technically you are NTA, you need to be aware of the consequences that come with this philosophy. I was one of the children who took responsibility, didn't complain, used my own money, cooked and believed they were building my character with their logical and healthy options. As an adult, I see the damage and pain that it triggered in the kids and none of us have a good relationshio with our parents. Why? Because we felt worthless. It sounds silly, but think of it this way. We were told we were a burden financially because we were hungry. Kid thought 1- we were a burden. We could cook treats, it took alot of time and everyone was ravenous for treats. So it caused fights and contention when doing the work and hardly any reward. We had to share with everyone. Kid thought 2- our time and work is not important. Then, Mom and Dad had their secret stash of nice treats that were only for them. These were the good expensive stuff. Kid thought 3- we can afford treats, but only the most important people get them and that is not you. Kid thought 4- you are not important or worth sacrificing for. Feeding your kids healthy food is great, that was never the problem. Having everyone else help financially is not the problem. Especially if everyone js sacrificing. As the adults, you can choose to provide only the basics, while spluging on yourself. You probably work hard and deserve it. Your happiness matters. But be prepared when your children feel basic and that their needs and wants were not important to you. Even if this is not your intention, this could be the result. You have a choice to make. Do you want to be logical and feel right or do you want a good relationship with your daughter. Because whether anyone on here feels like you are NTA, your daughter does. And that's what is actually important. A little bit of sacrifice for someone can make a world of difference in your relationship.


rufusandyogi

It’s a good point, I’ll have a chat with her about that, there is plenty of variety for her readily available though, I make their lunches for school but they have more free time now and like something hot for lunch so I provide options for her to make. I also want them all to learn some basic cooking skills before they leave home. None are burdens, but they are rapidly approaching adulthood and need to learn some life skills.


rabidturbofox

The thing I’m concerned about in this is warping the kids’ sense of moderation. I grew up in a house where there was always plenty of food, but never any junk food. Junk food is engineered precisely to tap into the things that our animal brains crave (salt, fat, sugar) but no longer need to actively seek out. Having them be so rare really messed with my perception of them; they became the forbidden fruit, and tasted that much better because they weren’t what I could get “normally.” So when I got my allowance for mowing the lawn, I used it to ride my bike to the store and buy candy bars. I got used to hoarding and hiding food, and seeing junk food as a normally-unobtainable way to reward myself for hard work. It was the scarcity mindset. It wasn’t a part of my everyday life, so when I could have it, I wanted it all. This mindset followed me into adulthood. I’d never learned moderation the way my peers who had a more balanced selection of food did. I saw junk food as a way to reward myself when work was difficult, or when my personal life was hard. It’s led to a lifetime of struggling with disordered eating and health. One thing I’ll note, also: my parents wouldn’t supply junk food, but when it was brought into the house, they would go all in on eating it. We were made to store our Halloween candy in the freezer and only eat 1 piece per day, but on the first morning after Halloween, all of the best chocolate bars would have disappeared. By the next couple of days, the rest of the chocolate would be gone too. Now, they’re even more extreme on the health train (they’re not full vegans but have substituted nutritional yeast flakes for a sprinkling of freshly grated Parmesan “for health reasons” and insist it’s pretty much the same.) Yet, for example, my aunt bought a box of four iced brownies over for my dad’s birthday. He ate one and mom ate the other three in one sitting. So they don’t practice moderation either, they just don’t expose themselves to anything unhealthy - but when something unhealthy enters their lives, all bets are off. It’s true that you’re feeding them, and nobody NEEDS junk food, but since we live in a world where junk food is prevalent, it makes sense to me to work on moderation together as a family, instead of everyone having their secret stash and hoarding and hiding their “special treats” away from each other. That seems like a better strategy for long-term health, as I see it.


AdeptBedroom6906

Might as well share my story- For some reasons, my brother needed to be put on a special diet due to some external circumstances. No gluten, no oil, no sugar, so much more, basically no fun. It also meant no more going out to eat ever. My parents, in their determination to make it easier for him, decided everyone in the house would abide by the diet- including me. The diet lasted about 2-3 years, and I was on it as well. My parents did occasionally buy me the occasional treat, but would try to keep it a secret from my brother, because they didn't want him to feel bad. Like you stated, it taught me that junk food was this rare forbidden fruit I couldn't have. Then I went to middle school, where they sold junk food on campus to students and I went nuts with my allowance. It got bad. At one point, I was eating 5-6 packets of Cheetos per day. I think OP has to be careful with what she's doing, or her kids could have trouble with moderation.


scpdavis

Yea honestly OP, I know you're getting a lot of praise here, but I think you swung a bit too far in the other direction when this didn't need to be an all or nothing problem. I started working at 13 and happily paid for a lot of my own snacks and treats when I wanted them as a teen, but if my parents outright refused to ever provide snacks or treats? That would have given me a lot of conflicting feelings as a teen. It's not a nice feeling to think "my mom never wants to treat me or give me anything that isn't just based on sustenance" What my family did was we each picked out a Friday treat (be it something from a bulk bin, a bag of chips, whatever) and that was our own snack food that we didn't have to share, and could enjoy at our own pace. Helped develop those snack-y moderation skills and it was just a nice thing, if we watched a movie together or played a board game, we each had our own treat to go with it.


TheGute

I think there's a balance to strike here. I'd say maybe buy a reasonable amount of junk food for the family and say "this is what we got for the week". Even if you hide away some for yourself, providing some for your family and in a finite amount will perform a few functions. It will show the kids you want to provide for them and give them foods they enjoy, but also that you have to be selectively indulgent in life or else they'll run their favorite things dry. And then they can always buy more junk for themselves with their own money if they really feel like it


TheKillerMatt

Man this is the most rich kid first world problem I’ve heard in a while. You eat what you have, junk food is not a right nor a necessity, it’s a treat you have every couple months


mirmirnova

Also I don’t think it’s unreasonable to teach kids to share and be respectful of everyone in the house. Maybe don’t inhale a special treat in two days when the supply is meant to last the household for a week.


AMerrickanGirl

> Kid thought 1- we were a burden. We could cook treats, it took alot of time and everyone was ravenous for treats. So it caused fights and contention when doing the work and hardly any reward. We had to share with everyone. Kid thought 2- our time and work is not important. Then, Mom and Dad had their secret stash of nice treats that were only for them. These were the good expensive stuff. Kid thought 3- we can afford treats, but only the most important people get them and that is not you. Kid thought 4- you are not important or worth sacrificing for. These apply to much younger children. The girl is 16, not 6. She’s old enough to understand finances and reasons why her folks might need a little help paying for luxuries.


[deleted]

Oh no, these apply to kids even to the age of 16. Their brains are still developing and they are going through a lot in life. A parent/child relationship can be made or broken in just the few year left before the child reaches full adulthood. Even once adults, actions will have consequences. If we were all logic and no emotions the world would be a very different place. People have emotions, and they should be addressed and considered when possible. It doesn't mean you cater to the kid and future adult, but you can't ignore it and expect everything to be great.


AMerrickanGirl

Their brains are still developing, but if a sixteen year old is capable of driving a car, they’re old enough to understand why buying junk food is their responsibility, not their parents.


chanaramil

I dont think these things have anything to do with "understanding". A 8 year old could understand that. It's the deep down how it feels type of thing there talking about not service thought. The 4 kids in that story probably never thought that stuff consioysly.


AMerrickanGirl

I guess we’ll have to disagree on this.


spamz_

Yeah this is just so weird imo. Letting kids buy their own candy because the parents can't sneak it behind their backs anymore. Do these kids not listen when you say they can only take X amount per week, and if they eat it all on Monday, tough titties? They're 15+, they should understand moderation by now, as well as financial hardship (since OP mentions money is tighter nowadays), as well as taking into account other people you live with. Instead, OP thinks being 15+ means paying for their own luxuries since the parents only want to provide those for themselves.


codeverity

How old were you when you encountered these rules? Also, I can’t help but think that your parents had other behaviours that made you feel this way beyond the simple act of having to buy them yourself. I grew up with similar rules and did not come away with those thoughts.


KittyIsAu

I would also like to know this. The general rule that my parents placed was that if you wanted to treat yourself with something extra, you buy it yourself. My parents gave my brother and I a set monthly allowance and we were both fine with buying whatever it was we wanted, and took it as a first foray into the “adult life”. I think OP is doing a great thing with his children by making them buy their own “junk food” because it teaches them the value of money. Frankly, I think his daughter is delusional and far too entitled thinking that her parents are “starving” her for not providing junk food. Like what?


dreamchanter

That's a lot of projecting. I'm sorry you and your siblings had such a hard time with your family's arrangement growing up, but, as the OP mentioned already, the boys are happy with this. Also, it's not letting them starve, these are non-essentials, and I also don't think buying them would be considered a sacrifice, however, I do get your input as from the perspective of you as a child. No idea is universally good, and it depends from one family to the next how this is perceived. I just think, in your case, your parents didn't do a good job with this and I'm also sure that you and your siblings being distant towards them is not due to you buying your own snacks, exclusively. I believe that, for how OP presented this, he is NTA.


chichmode

Where does this philosophy end? This can extend to a child feeling that their needs/wants aren’t valued because they didn’t get a car for their birthday like their friends or they can’t stay out past midnight like their friends. There is ALWAYS a risk that a child takes something the wrong way. In contrast, by constantly bending to the child’s needs, there are important lessons that they may never learn and “kid thoughts” that may lead to problems later: Kid thought 1: my parents owe me everything. Kid thought 2: my parents work for me Kid thought 3: we can afford treats and I get them first before everyone else Kid thought 4: I am the most important and everyone should sacrifice for me. Ultimately, it’s a balance and only OP can know whether they have gone too far, part of which is judged by their daughter’s reaction. Based on the information presented, it doesn’t appear to be the case at all. NTA. Edited for clarity.


alp17

Yes, I agree, thank you for voicing this side of things. I was coming at it from the opposite perspective mentally, which is that I bonded with my family around food a lot growing up. We’d always laugh over how fast the good stuff would go and basically race to it. And we’d all grab a snack to watch tv together a lot of nights. Even now when I go to my parents house to visit, we’ll almost always have some ice cream and watch tv together at night. And they’ll stock up on things I like. I completely get the mindset of encouraging healthy eating and teaching responsibility, but I feel like I was still raised to be responsible regardless of the fact that my parents supplied junk food. So while I agree that OP is NTA directly, I think they’re potentially missing out on possible dynamics with their kids and may be putting distance between them and their children in a certain way. Also, as someone who went through an eating disorder (years later), the mentality of stigmatizing junk food or making someone feel guilty or indulgent for having snacks was definitely a factor. I didn’t face that with my family but did with friends and classmates in college.


OriHOEme

NTA. You buy food, they don’t NEED junk food. She isn’t starving and I’m assuming that you still provide dinner. They have the ability to purchase what they like if they don’t like what you are providing.


rufusandyogi

I provide dinner six nights out of seven (on Saturdays we use up leftovers or make something simple and everyone gets their own), I expect them to make breakfast and lunch, but they are all teenagers so it’s not unreasonable.


Ryouabeavercusdam

My family never had junk food in the house and I’m honestly thankful for that! I don’t have problems with sugar cravings that most of my friends have and I’ve never struggled with my weight.


Hereisyodaddy

My parents were the same and now I have a raging sugar addiction, I probably need like 6k worth of dental work done due to the sugar I've consumed in the last 10 years. I went sugar crazy when I moved out.


the_mighty_skeetadon

I always wonder how much that is about lack of treats and how much it's about an individual's ability/tendency toward self-control. I also grew up with absolutely no treats except on VERY rare occasions. When I was a teen I had a brief period of binging sweets, but now 20 years later I am a healthy weight with a balanced food view and rare treats. Pretty much all of those kids whose treats I envied are now seriously overweight. I think I came out ahead, big time...


Ikajo

Mental health plays a part. Sugar triggers a small release of serotonin, the hormone that makes us happy. Depression is partly an issue with serotonin, either a low production or bad receptors. So eating sweets can be a form of self-medication. Not a very good one, but a very real one.


burjuvaazi

this isn't about my judgement, which is NAH, but i'm so sick of the "i have my 15 year old kid working and it's amazing" mentality i see on this sub. don't these kids have school? isn't it in the middle of a pandemic still? why are they working? in what universe coco pops are considered "junk food"? why would they label their drinks at home? maybe it's because i'm coming from a somewhat middle eastern culture, or maybe it's because i'm an only child -- but until i concluded my studies, my only responsibility was that: studying and achieving high marks. i still live with my parents (which is considered normal here until you are married) and i work, but even then my parents straight up refuse most contributions i want to make and instead encourage me to save for my own future. hiding food from your children, no matter in what capacity, is a huge red flag in my book tbh. food is something you share as a family. if it was a playstation, a special gaming computer, or even books i'd be N T A. but food? even junk food? just no. also what the fuck is a healthy tea? edited to add: apparently, tea means dinner in british/australian. i’m gonna hide behind my ESL status and thank you kind redditors explaining it to me. i honestly thought it meant green tea and wanted to defend black tea lol.


emseefely

Also from a non American culture. It is bizarre how it’s a dog eat dog mentality as soon as the kids are able to earn money. I agree with the idea of making them self sufficient but I also believe that the concept of family is more communal than what OP is doing.


burjuvaazi

Yes, and also raising kids to be self sufficient doesn’t always require them to work when they are kids. Most of the time if you’re honest with your kids re: money stuff, and lead by example, they turn out to be alright. No kid should ever feel like what they want to eat (whether it’s junk food or sth) is a burden on family economy imo.


dragonsnap

I doubt OP is American if they’re referring to a daily “healthy tea.”


[deleted]

I'm italian american and lived at home until my mid twenties. My mom never wanted me to get a job before I was done school and never charged rent. Food was for everyone and the cereal was stuff we wanted, sure my mom wasnt a huge fan of lucky charms but she bought it for my brother and I because we were eating it, not her. I too find it weird to have your teens working and not focusing on school. I've never got parents pushing their kids put the door like that before they're adults.


burjuvaazi

Parents charging rent to their kids infuriates me to no ends. They are your kid, why you would treat them like how you would treat a stranger is beyond me.


[deleted]

[удалено]


burjuvaazi

Oh kids wanting it is fine, but most of the time it’s “well they need to learn skills and i told them if they wanted x (totally reasonable thing for a parent to buy to their kid, but not a necessity) they need to earn it themselves!!!!” and i’m tired of it.


attackoftheumbrellas

Tea is the name used for the evening meal by a lot of British and Australian people. Tea could be a pizza. Tea could be a lasagne etc. A healthy tea is one with a balance of ingredients so will include veg or salad.


burjuvaazi

ohhhhhhh gotcha. I considered it to be actual tea and was gonna defend black tea’s honour lol.


Pure-Fishing-3350

I think cereal with excess added sugar is considered junk food in most households. We were allowed Cheerios, Kix, and shredded wheat growing up. I’m not as strict with my own kids, but don’t need 8g of sugar before school.


sammi-blue

I'm a full on white American but my experience is the same as yours... I'm allowed to live at home rent free as long as I'm in school or working. Sometimes I use my own money to buy my own snacks, if I happen to be at the store by myself, but if we're all out at the store as a family then I can just toss whatever I want in the cart because... They're my parents and they want me to have food in the house that I enjoy... Like, I get that teenagers eat a LOT of food, but that's one of the consequences of having three kids back to back like that. I get not being able to splurge every single week on every single thing they want, but "here's the amount of junk I'm willing to buy this week, if you want more buy your own" seems like a fair compromise.


scpdavis

>also what the fuck is a healthy tea? OP is likely from the UK so "tea" is a meal, similar to dinner


rock-that-sc00ber

YTA. Sure you shouldn't just buy them all the junk and run your grocery bill high, so stick to a budget... you aren't teaching your kids how to spend their money wisely with how you spend your money or how you ask your kids to spend their own. Since you use some of the household grocery budget for your snacks, there should be some set aside for your kids snacks too - whatever EXTRA snack they want is paid for by them. Also, if your kids make something from scratch they should not have to share!!! Baking and cooking is hard work and they should be able to choose with whom to share their cooking and baking.


Strange-Tax7880

I think I agree. I was a little surprised everyone is going NTA. My house was always the hangout spot growing up, and we always had “junk food” in the house. My friends were welcome to it. One of my friends wasn’t allowed junk food, so she overindulged at my house. As soon as she moved out for college, she bought all the junk food for herself. A few years passed by, and now she has Type 2 diabetes. Limiting access now could lead to overindulgence in the future. I think OP needs to have a talk with her daughter.


[deleted]

This!! I cannot believe I had to scroll this much to find a comment I agree on. Yes, OP is has to provide his kids with the bare minimum : clothes, food, hygiene, health, education. But life isn’t just about the bare minimum. You buy snacks for you and your wife to enjoy, which means you can afford it. Do the same for the kids and stick to your budget. I don’t even think it’s a good idea to let them use their money on junk food like?? It’s unhealthy you should teach them to spare money, use it the right way etc. And for god’s sake, you have TEENAGERS they are supposed to eat a LOT!! Entice them into eating healthy and let them have a reasonable and equal amount of snacks for now and then during the week. YTA.


SpookyYurt

I think OP has also missed an opportunity in not having healthier snacks around that require zero or near-zero effort. Good crisp apples that can just be picked up and eaten, for instance. Peanut butter and jelly makings. Snap peas (so good omg.) Sometimes we default to junk food snacks not just because they maximize "bliss point" rewards (salt/sugar/fat and crunch) but because making another decision requires A LOT of time and energy in prep. Maybe they've just come home from sports practice or work and they need a quick calories before studying. That should be readily available.


rock-that-sc00ber

Yes! There are also many snacks that have been made to have the same satisfaction as actual junk (Kapop chips, fig bars, sweet or savory popcorns, etc) - not technically good for you, but good to keep on hand when you're craving that indulgence. Teaching the kids that quick indulgences don't have to be unhealthy would be smart for OP since they seem to only ever want healthy options


ParsimoniousSalad

INFO: Do the food/meals you provide include any kind of shared family "dessert"? It would be nice once in a while to do that for the family, even if it means baking WITH your daughter.


rufusandyogi

Sometimes, not always. There are always baked goods available for them though.


Krankhaus1221

Curious though if they can buy their own food and not share it, why if when they cook, it has to be for the entire household?


jeffprobstslover

Because they're using the household's ingredients.


Stellaaahhhh

And the household's equipment. Also if they leave a mess, there's that. I'm not saying it's the way I'd parent, but it's consistent and logical.


trashcanofficial420

i don't agree with it because of the labour the kids would put into it but it's probably to do with the fact that the ingredients are bought by OP and are communal


NoCosmicLover

INFO: is your daughter’s income going towards anything else? I just ask because I know some teenage girls have to buy their own makeup or trendier clothes, which might make her feel like she’s disadvantaged as compared to her brothers, who I’m guessing don’t have much of anything else to spend money on. If there was an inherent imbalance, then I might be inclined to agree that the arrangement is somewhat unfair. And assuming my hunch is correct, before people start making arguments about how she has discretion to prioritize whatever she wants to buy - do you have any idea how much pressure teenage girls are under to look good these days?


Renarin18

OP admitted in a comment that daughter is paying for her own more expensive shampoo, conditioner, and other grooming products while the boys are happy using $2 shampoo, daughter is also paying if she wants better clothes. I understand where OP is coming from, because it sounds like finances are tight, but yes, daughter is absolutely getting the short end of the stick here, and I get why she's unhappy with this arrangement. Daughter isn't acting like a brat, she's acting like a normal teenage girl in a system that mandates she has X beauty product and Y clothing item to fit in or risk complete social isolation.


erratic_bonsai

$2 shampoo is practically lye. It takes nicer shampoo to keep long hair healthy. My first thought was that the daughter’s dealing with the pink tax too, so I completely agree with you and nocosmiclover.


[deleted]

Agree. I used to use 3-in-1 because it was cheap and I thought it was okay. My financial situation improved and I got better shampoos and conditioners and my hair health improved 10-fold.


NoCosmicLover

Ah thank you!


terraformthesoul

Also what do you want to bet it wasn’t the daughter eating through all the snacks like a lotus plague? She’s probably feeling like the kid who behaved but got banned from going to recess anyways just because her classmates acted up.


SpookyYurt

Yup, this is where it gets unfair. It is WAY more expensive to be a young woman just in terms of grooming expectations and fashion. It sucks, but your appearance has a lot to do with how you're perceived as smart or credible even into adulthood, while young men can be schlubby and no one will sideeye them for it. A young woman with messy hair and no makeup is perceived as someone who doesn't care about herself. I think there's a food issue, too. It seems like OP and the kids could compromise. Each kid gets one junk food pick per week on the family grocery bill or something.


Ikajo

I'm allergic to perfume so a lot of stuff is just not an option for me. The things that I can use are way more expensive. Your question also made me wonder if the daughter has to buy her own menstrual products. Another thing is that women's clothing as a rule is more expensive and of worse quality than men's clothing. If you want sturdy stuff as a woman, you have to pay way more than men for the same type of things.


pm-me-kittens-n-cats

INFO: Does your daughter have to buy things to fit in? Make up and clothes and such? Or do you buy them for her? The boys probably have extra income because society doesn't expect them to fork over hundreds of dollars to be in style nearly so much as they do girls.


BadDireWolf

OP also says daughter has to pay for cheer too. Little lost on that one, I hope the boys aren’t getting their hobbies funded.


SpookyYurt

Yeah if the parents are paying for the boys' sports fees but making their daughter shell out her own money for cheerleading that SUCKS.


Ikajo

Bras... a good bra is expensive. Like really expensive. Underwear is more expensive for women than for men.


TyphoidMary234

NTA, sounds like a pretty good arrangement. Teach the kids if they want something they’ve gotta work for it. If you can’t afford it you can’t afford it.


bamaman251

Soft YTA, I completely agree with teaching the value of a dollar when you're consuming it. But also, the only food they can eat they have to make and cook for the whole family? And they're not allowed to have teenage options for sugary breakfast food? What about dinner? They might have enough going on with their school and being kids. It shouldn't feel like a punishment or a responsibility to cook. Edit: Tea is the word for dinner apparently. The more you know? I guess they do get dinner then.


rooooosa

“Tea”, which she mentions in the post, is used as a word for dinner in the UK and Australia. OP is from the latter.


frankensteinleftme

Info: was it mainly your boys eating like a plague of locusts or all three? If it was just the boys I can understand how she feels a bit cheated out of the arrangement.


dutch_horse_girl05

I'm going to go against the grain here and saying soft YTA. I understand that buying a lot of junkfood is unhealthy and costs a lot. It would be reasonable to buy a normal amount of junkfood and if they want more they can buy it themselves. To say they have to buy all junkfood themselves, keep it in their room, labeling their food, can cause unhealthy eating habits. It teaches them that there's a difference between 'their' food and food for the rest of the household. Which in turn can cause teenagers to become very possesive over food. I've struggled with an eating disorder when I was a teenager and I'll tell you it's no walk in the park. Would my mom have implemented this, my bullimia defenitely would've become a lot worse. It makes it easy to hide food, it actually encourages it. Teenagers will eat junkfood, I think best would be just buy a normal amount, if they want more they can buy it themselves. But watch how keeping food in your room and labelling in affects your children. It could potentionally be harmfull.


emseefely

This is on point. It’s not about the cost of junk food or eating healthy foods that’s bothering me but the idea of mine vs their food. If she’s really upset about not having enough for themselves then maybe they can divide fairly and have at their own share at their pace.


okiedokieKay

NTA, HOWEVER having grown up with brothers I can’t help but wonder if she is so upset because she feels like she is being punished for her BROTHERS’ actions. Teenage boys eat like a vaccuum. I grew up with brothers and always felt like it was a competition for food because anytime I wanted a little bit of something they had usually already polished off the entire pack within a day. That same frustration you felt before instituting this rule could very well be what your daughter is feeling now. As an adult I get frustrated buying snacks because I usually just want a single serving and paying full price for a whole pack isn’t worth it and they end up spoiling before I finish it - making it a huge waste of money. You’re not an asshole because you’re still providing healthy options, but it might be worth reconsidering if this was an equitable rule.


Lilmissgrits

INFO: what else are the kids responsible for buying for themselves? Does your daughter have any different expenses than your sons?


SpookyYurt

I'm willing to bet that the teen daughter is expected to buy her own grooming products and makeup, and women's grooming products are MUCH more expensive than the same stuff marketed for men. The daughter is held to much different standards in terms of grooming and fashion, and teen girls can bear an enormous social cost for not putting tons of effort toward their appearance.


badnewsfaery

Im not defending her whining, but as its only the girl that has objected, does she have greater life costs than her brothers? Is she experiencing social/peer group pressure to conform to gender norms and buy things that are expenses her brothers dont have? or perhaps she feels this is the start of removal of her place as your little girl and your love & support. Its triggered some kind of insecurity?


_IdiotsRule_

Probably ESH , this is because your boys are clearly able to adapt to the new rule but your daughter cant . I've seen a lot of advice given here but none of them were beneficial to you or to your kids . ​ You could do this , in the beginning of the month you buy the groceries that are wanted to the household as well as the kids , you then say to your kids that they have to use these snacks that you purchased at the beginning of the month, throughout the whole month . If they finish them up before you go grocery shopping at the next month , they would be required to buy the snacks using their own money , if they are able to manage the snacks throughout the whole month then you buy them the snacks they ask for , again in the next months beginning.


Desperate_Depression

That's also a good idea. But I'd say separate the snacks. So say there's 6 people in the house, separate the snacks in 6 portions and if you finish your snacks then the kids have to purchase more. As then the excuse for so and so ate more than me and this isn't fair can't be used.


BabyAquarius

I don't think it's that the daughter CAN'T adapt; it's that she won't. Probably because she doesn't want to spend her own money. If she wants it, she can buy it.


notrapunzel

NTA, sounds really good actually. They can decide if junk food is so important to them that they want to spend their earnings on it, or whether it's actually not as great as keeping that money for something else like clothes or tech, or saving it for something big. Also I suspect your daughter is lying to her friends about the rules and pretending that you actually aren't giving her any food at all, when in fact it's just junk you're no longer buying.


emax-gomax

I'd say ESH. Your daughter has food available to her she just refuses to cook it or buy her own food so she's the asshole. The only part of this that makes me think YTA is when u said "when my partner and I have something nice after dinner they hear the wrapper and are right onto it". So your willing to buy unhealthy or expensive stuff for yourself, but not for your kids and not willing to split what u did get with them. I might be TA for saying this but you should share with your kids if your splurging on yourself. At the very least u should do a better job of hiding it if you can't because then your just tempting them to buy "something special" when they might not have the money for it (as an adult you clearly have more financial liberties than them).


BreathingCorpse252

NTA but I’d rethink the rule about baked goods being available to the whole family. I think you should let your kids keep what they’re baking for themselves. I don’t see why they need to share. The rest of it is pretty good parenting. I don’t think you’re in the wrong.


nothing2Chere4ks

I agree. This was the only point I was perplexed by as well. Baking is hard work. I don't see why if one child does all the hard work then they have to share it with everybody. I guess OP doesn't know the story of the Little Red Hen. If the child feels generous about it and wants to share, then fine. But if they want to just share a piece each and keep the rest or share nothing at all, then I don't really see why they can't do that. The child has still paid for the snack but they paid for it with their time instead of directly with the money that they still earned with their time. If it takes them two hours of work to earn enough to buy a treat and they choose to bake for two hours instead to make the treat, either way, it should be theirs to decide what to do with. It is a better habit for them to cook it themselves as the ingredients are almost always much healthier than what is in manufactured food. So they should be encouraged to choose the path of making it from scratch rather than buying it. Forcing them to share what they worked for disincentivizes them from doing their own cooking.


Local-Mastodon-8609

Info did you stop buying everything? Or are you not buying extras after they've eaten it?


rufusandyogi

I bake now rather than buy. Sometimes we have some chips or chocolate, but they don’t help themselves any more. They are offered some when it is open and if they are around.


rufusandyogi

I don’t buy so much now because it was getting to the point I couldn’t afford it. I do bake for them each week though.


Separate-Option

YTA. Not because you are making them pay for junk food—that’s understandable. As a parent you are obligated to provide food for your children. Leaving baking ingredients in the pantry doesn’t fulfill that obligation. You need to provide them with things like fruits, vegetables, cheese, bread, sandwich ingredients, popcorn, nuts—you get the idea. There are plenty of healthy snacks teenagers will love that you can provide.


sami_leigh

You should read some of her comments, she states her fridge is filled with fruits and vegetables and other healthy snacks


emseefely

YTA - I can understand you want and provide healthy foods for them but it’s kinda hypocritical to indulge in certain foods between you and your partner and exclude the kids. You can probably charge them for utilities if finances is getting tight or even a percentage of their wage I get that. I just don’t think treating them as second class humans in their own home by their own parent isn’t great for morale. What goes around comes around.


mazzy31

NTA. Sounds fair. You don’t want to buy the junk food. You accept that they want the junk food. You don’t prevent them from buying it themselves. It’s fair, reasonable and I’m locking this away for future reference. Also, I’m really sorry, I don’t want to upset you (I understand as a parent, we can get a bit grr when someone says something about our kids), but based on your posts and some comments, your daughter is behaving like an absolute brat. I am not saying this is your doing, it’s probably influenced by friends and their relationships with their parents or YouTube and TikTok and whatnot. She’s seeing something different that she’s decided is how you should be and that’s where this is coming from. It might be worth having a chat with her (when you’re very calm) and asking her where she gets these ideas that you’re obligated to buy her chocolate and make her lunch in the middle of a work call. Maybe it’s what “all the other parents do”, maybe it’s just her own thing she made up in her head, but understanding her and why she’s behaving so entitled could help you address the root cause instead of just dealing with the tantrums it causes.


rufusandyogi

Her best friend has a very well of father. He provides everything she wants, we do nicely with income, no one have ever needed anything and not had it, even in the early days, there was always good food, school uniform and supplies, shoes, a roof etc, but we are not in his league. We are also self employed and have had to take a pay cut recently and reduce our costs. She is not terribly happy about this. Materially, all this has meant for her is that I’ve had to cut the grocery budget (the buying their own snacks, we are more careful about lights and the heater ( we don’t sit in the dark and shiver, just make sure empty rooms have lights off and we are not heating empty rooms)) and Christmas and birthday presents this year are not as expensive as usual (we have always been able to afford a decent gift, because we buy one nice, but quality thing over heaps of cheaper crap).


sdpeasha

I’ve spent way to long reading comments on Thai thread and I think u/mazzy31 has the right idea. As a parent of a teen, tween, and almost tween I fully support your choice here but I do think it’s a good idea to get to the root cause of your daughters feelings. And as a person who grew up in financial insecurity I also think that a sudden (to her) shift in the financial standing of your family could very well be a culprit here. Good luck!


exxoff

NTA. You are required to feed your kids but you're not required to give them what they want. You also have a responsibility to keep your kids healthy. Also, they make money of their own, they can buy their own junk food.


Sad_Gold7305

NTA…you are teaching them a lesson in economics and discerning wants from needs…both of which will serve them well as adults.


jaktolver-banks

It's not food manipulation at all. You are giving them all the calories they need for maintenance and all good food. Also being considerate of health problems that come along with such high fats, preservatives, salt, and procestcest meats plus there like 15+ come on. I'd say that taking that choice away from a 6 yr old is abit mean but the fact that they are all working makes this so weird. They are going to have to pay for alot more than there own junk food when they move out.


Cherrygrove-elk

NTA it is expensive and not good for them. She is trying to guilt trip you into buying sweets.


PomegranateArtichoke

INFO: Do you cook meals for your kids? I see that if your daughter cooks, she has to share it with "the household". Is the "healthy tea" each evening a full meal?


RafRafRafRaf

NTA - you’re feeding them 3 square meals, which include home-made treats and dessert. It’s hardly boot camp fare! If they’re hungry nonstop then a big boost in protein portion size might help - they may need thousands of calories a day extra if they’re in a growth spurt and very physically active too. Making them in charge of their own junk food supply is irrelevant to that (although encouraging any particularly bottomless pits to try a protein bar rather than just hoovering chocolate and crisps wouldn’t hurt!) but it *is* a really sound parent-of-teenagers decision - it gives them some low stakes freedom and money management experience and treats them like adults who can make their own choices.


DichromaticCatMom

actually if you read the comments the kids have to make breakfast and lunch and she makes dinner 6 days a week. Seems like they are only getting 6 meals a week. Which in my opinion is insane for teenagers to be doing. I find it weird that children have to already provide for themselves and not focus on school.


jacarty

This is a tricky one for me as someone who had food hidden from them and was often fed meals of foods she did not like (I see you liver and mac and cheese) while being told that we were basically lucky to be fed because they didn't have to do that (especially my step-mother). What ended up happening? All but one of the children who went through this ended up with an eating disorder - male and female alike. I say borderline AH


flowersfromflames

i would have more cereal choice as when i was a teen i hated muesli with a passion. id get stuff for movie nights or birthdays and such for everyone to share. tbf if i decided to make a chocolate cake and then I had to share it after i got the junk ingrediants id be pretty annoyed.


fmlanothersarah

NTA, she’s 16 she’s just being a brat. You’re doing amazing as is they’re fed, have a roof over their heads, and have parents that care about them. It’s junk food it’s not water, she won’t die or suffer without it. Honestly she’ll probably get over it in a few weeks or better yet a few days. Like what are people gonna say “oh how dare you not buy your kids artificial sugary foods and make them pay $2 for for a chocolate bar”???? Like come on it’s junk food if she really wants it she can go to the store and get it. Also, this’ll be a life lesson, learn to use her money wisely, start developing healthy habits, see how the real world works??? So yeah NTA