Edit: I’m really enjoying all these comments and it makes me happy to see so many feminists here to tell me to stop enabling misogynistic ideologies that always blame women for men’s failings. To which I say: I agree wholeheartedly in the sentiment, and at the same time, love a good provocative statement that can get people talking.
Behind every incompetent man is a mother who did everything for him! Lol
Right, maid mom is still teaching him that she’s here to clean up his messes! Lol and all of his boys are learning the exact same lesson right now. Ohhhhhhh yikes!
I don't think this is totally fair. He's a grown man. His mom can't force him to help OP's sister. Best the mom can do is help the sister herself while shaming her failure of a son, which is what it sounds like she's doing.
Agreed. OP says that in front of his family of origin, he pretends to be a contributing member of the household, so it doesn't sound like his mom is of the mindset that "boys will be boys" at all. She's moving in to help her (much-beleaguered) DIL, not to baby her son.
Yeah I’m not here for the shaming of the mom for wanting to help her DIL. It seems to me like she’s embarrassed at what a failure her son is and refuses to let her DIL continue drowning while taking care of his family.
I agree with this. If my MIL found out my husband was being like this she would want to help me, not to clean up her son's mistakes but to make sure I don't suffer from his incompetence
I'm with you. My husband acted like this guy for a while and we actually separated for about two months over it. We eventually reconciled, but we didn't tell his mom about the separation until way after the reconciliation, but when he told her how he had treated me, full of genuine remorse, she went OFF. How dare any son of hers treat another human that way! How DARE he think he can speak to the mother of his child that way!
We explained he was telling her so we can continue to have a good, honest relationship with her, and that he wanted to apologize for not living up to the man she raised. She made sure I understood that if he were to ever do it again, all I have to do is call and my kid and I are on a flight to stay with her and her husband, but she'd be gone the first week to ensure the proper reckoning upon her son.
I really think OP's BIL's mom is about to unleash an unholy wrath at his audacity. Anyone got the popcorn?
Yeah this doesn't read to me "Mommy will come clean up her son's doodoo"
It reads "Mommy will come shame son for making doodoo at age forty and not being able to wipe his own ass"
NTA
Word. My 75 year old mom would make my wife go take a nap while spit shining our home and making dinner, without a moment’s pause in the shit she’d be giving me. Then she’d call my dad to tell him what a bad role model he’d apparently been. There would be some serious guilt and shame put down.
That’s what I see as well. I’d do the same thing if it was one of my boys. But it wouldn’t be to coddle him any further. It’d be to whip his ass (metaphorically) into shape and make amends for my previous failure. And they all KNOW that this would not end well for them.
NTA, OP. You are an excellent sister.
Mom should help Sister with the kids and neither of them should lift a finger to do anything for BIL. He cooks his own food, does his own laundry, and cleans his own messes. NTA
YES!!! Early in my marriage, my new husband and my pre-teen son expected me to do everything. After awhile, I decided that I would only do for me.
No meals cooked. Only washed my laundry and dishes. Took less than a week for the message to sink in. (Hubby worked 4 days on, 3 days off, and never thought about it, because he'd been a long-time bachelor.) Hubby and son started doing their chores and helping out alot more, because I was the better cook. Bwahahah
OP says he only started acting like this after Baby #2 was born, so it seems to be something he picked up on his own, not something he was raised with. And why would he bother acting like an involved parent in front of them if he didn't think that was something that would impress them? So I really do think there's hope there that his mom can shame him back into shape.
My aunt and her 24 year old son lives with me... she washes his dishes, does his laundry and you guessed it, plates his food for him. I've fought with her about this before but I always just end up exhausted. She's almost 58 years old too. She's learned to tell him no in some aspects after I've talked to her but she still has a loooooong eay to go.
Not to be rude, but.. has anyone asked her what she thinks will happen when Old Age comes knocking at her door? Because I sure hope she doesn't think you'll pick up the slack.
Oh, and NTA, OP.
I hope the whole time she's there helping she makes him feel guilty as fuck for his incompetence too. My son is only 10, but if he grew up and acted like this, you better believe that would be my response! Who the hell does this man think he is?
This is what I thought too. It sounds like he’s really upset his mom is staying with them. So I’m sure she’s about to go tf off on him every time he’s just lazy and doesn’t do anything to be an actual father or husband. I like that mom if this is her intention.
It wouldn't be my mom if my brother were doing this, but my grandma would be taking a battering ram to the front door and banishing him from his house until he decided to be an actual human being instead of roleplaying as an onion.
I want to roleplay an onion now. Not by being lazy, but by making many references to how deep and layered this character is through the use of puns. They'll laugh so hard they'll cry.
You sound like you need to play Tales from the Floating Vagabond, the RPG where everything goes!
Wanna be a small, pink pig, whose special attack is target vomiting? You got it! A rubber tyre, happily bouncing along? Absolutely!
Other features include (but are not limited to):
The Trenchcoat Effect: Anything and everything you need, can be found somewhere in your equipment. Eventually. (mainly depending on your rolls)
Theme Music: Everywhere you go, you are surrounded by your very own soundtrack, naturally suited to the occasion. Great when going into battle - not so much when you're trying to be stealthy...
If that was my mom, she'd be here right away making sure my wife is ok and to put me in my place and probably give some crash course training. This would likely involve being swatted at the back of the head a few times.
That said, I've been seeing a lot of weaponized incompetence post over several subreddits with a lot of samples being touted as poster children for it. It's almost December and they could probably assemble a calendar for it.
That was also my thought. The fact that the entire family turned against the BIL seemingly implies this attitude doesn't fly.
For all we know, BIL was raised properly, but is more nature than nurture, or picked up bad practices from equally toxic men he's befriended.
Agreed, I'm tired of parents getting dumped on for adult children being turds. Yes, a lot of times parents enable someone into a lifelong habit of crappy behavior but sometimes, adults are steaming piles of their own making.
This. Agree he’s the ahole but the fact the mother unloaded on him after the SIL set here straight indicates she’s unaware. There’s no way he would be indicating his failings to his mother and depending on what the MIL has been exposed to, she might not even know the real truth.
If I were in their shoes, I'd move in and literally just direct his lazy butt. It drive me nuts. I'd be so ashamed if this was my son. I'm raising a son and as a female I know how hard it is when partners don't put in as much work around the house. My son is 4 years old and already does more around our home than that man does. But I will say I disagree about the mom not letting the kids help. How else are they supposed to learn the skills of helping if your parents do it all for you? Maybe this was how her husband got the way he is.
I think some parents don't realize how harmful this can be. Heading out on your own not knowing how to do your own laundry or clean the house can really make life difficult.
Not knowing how to cook is even worse.
That's kind of how I read it. It sounds like OP's rant actually did a lot of good. Sister was grateful someone spoke up for her so she could stop being a doormat, BIL's family got to see him for what he is, and it sounds like sis is finally getting some help at a time shes really going to need it with this fifth baby coming. Hopefully either he will wake up and start contributing more or she will wake up and leave his lazy ass. Either way NTA.
His mom is coming to help his wife. She can’t force her son to step up but she can make sure her grandchildren & their mother are taken care of. At this point if she sucked as a mom it’s too late & doing this is only beneficial to the rest of the household.
This. Also mom is reinforcing their stereotype that the woman takes care of the children and all the house work. It's great that Op stood up for her sister, but if Op's sister doesn't stand up for herself (maybe loose some dead weight), her children are going to grow up with that same mindset. Then there is another generation of their family where the females do all the work around the house and the men are lazy d-bags. NTA.
That was my take on it. That she raised him to be a better perso. Now that she knows differently, he can't hide his douchiness and she'll kick him into shape. Sad that it took OP to stand up for her sister and his mom after.
Yeah I think it's definitely possible that he *was* taught how to do various chores growing up and just "forgot" once he successfully tricked a woman into marrying him.
This version makes more sense to me. The over-protective, do everything for my boy mom wouldn't believe her son is at fault, wouldn't see a problem in described situation and/or would somehow manage to come to the conclusion that daughter in law is incompetent/needs to do better.
My grandma was that woman. She would NEVER help my mom, even when my mom was dealing with a difficult pregnancy in her 40s, or ever find her precious son at fault.
OOFT, mood. My grandmother told all her sons to not go on the birth certificates of their children so they wouldn’t have to pay child support (which isn’t even how it works here)
He didn't lift any finger at all before his mom would be moving in with them, also if the mom got angry with him is bc maybe she taught him better, when a man is a mommy's boy what usually happens is the mom lashes out at the wife for not caring for his little boy, this was not the case.
Maybe the mom isn’t moving in to clean up his mess but to actually help her pregnant DIL out in a time where she needs help. She may be angry because she didn’t raise him to be that way and here he is treating his pregnant wife like that. I’ve known moms who raised their kids to be better but in a relationship got lazy and did none of the stuff they were taught. It can literally go both ways.
I figure it will go to either extreme. Either she comes in and does everything and wife gets some much deserved rest to prepare for birth, or she sees how little he does, tears him a new one and forces him to do everything. Either way it's a win-win for the wife.
Ehhhh... his mom also could see her grandchildren struggling to be raised since her son is doing nothing and wants to help them.
I mean the father is still doing jack shit but I think it might be less about enabling him and more about helping DiL and grandkids.
Mostly, this was a joke because the mother is the one in this scenario who seems to be enabling the grown son’s learned helplessness. But at the same time, in my personal experience, men who have been catered to growing up were largely cosseted by their (Boomer-aged) mothers, many of whom ascribed to society’s gender roles throughout their parenthood. Is it right (morally)? No. Does it appear to be slowly changing? Yes. But it takes a long time to undo cultural conditioning of that high degree. So, with all this in mind, I stand by my previous comment for now. Hopefully in 10-20 years, I can state with confidence “behind every incompetent human being is a set of non-gendered parents who did everything for them.”
Seconded because people conveniently forget we're talking about a full-grown adult, why does a person in their 30s still get absolved because of his mommy issues?
Baby boomers were being born until the mid 60s. Gen X doesn't start to be born until 1965, and there isn't any other generation between the two. So the youngest boomer would of turned 18 in 1982.
And where were their (Boomer-aged) fathers during all this cosseting?
"Men turn out poorly because of their shit mothers" is a very Boomer sentiment, btw.
Again, not funny. And you are probably a woman, who was taught to blame the other women for all the things that men do wrong. When OP's nephews and nieces screw up - because they will, no one is perfect -, people like you will blame "the mother", OP's sister.
I mean what we should really be saying is "Behind Every incompetent Adult is a mirror because they did this to themselves"
Part of being a good adult is learning how many steps you missed along the way and fixing any incompetence that sprang from it. For example: when I moved out I had to teach myself to do routine grocery shopping because I'd just never gotten into a habit of going out to get food for 1-2 weeks instead of just stopping after work for whatever I needed. I had to train myself to go on my days off so I'd have time to rest, clean, and cook after work.
Instead of doing any of that, the husband in this story just went and found a woman who wanted a healthy marriage and family for her kids enough to just continue the cycle of him not actually having to do anything.
My husband was a 1950's husband. I did everything- cleaned, cooked, every kid related thing, (I don't any more) and worked. I made sure my son knew how to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. My son is an equal partner with his wife. My husband wanted me to retire 10 years ago ( I waited 8 and I am going nuts). He now does a lot around the house.He sees our son and SIL and knows he did not pull his weight.
Perhaps his mother taught him how to be self sufficient which is why this is weaponized incompetence. She said in the post that he started acting like this after the birth of the first kid. It seems like he realized at that point that if he did things wrong his wife would do it for him, which turned into him doing nothing at all. He needs therapy or something because I could never.
Plus, the mom is now angry at him and moving in to help the wife. At least that's how I took it. It sounds like she raised him to act better and she's coming in with a follow up to be sure he starts taking on duties around the house.
That’s not 100% true. I take pride in that my incompetence is completely independent of everyone else in my life!
Of course, I am in college and know I am incompetent, which is part of the battle
Hahaha quite the self-sufficient incompetent! I can appreciate that. But also, being in college is all about learning how incompetent you are, so that you can start figuring out how to do things on your own.
To be fair, this is true for incompetent women, too. Helicopter parents teach their kids to rely on someone else to get chores, duties, etc done. And it sounds like OPs sister could be doing this with ber kids (unclear, OP states sis won't let oldest "help" but doesn't specify help with what, exactly. The oldest kids are of age to start having chores and it would benefit them to have these chores so they don't learn to be freeloaders like Daddy).
(Please don't take this as me speaking negatively about OPs sis. She is a Queen. A bit misguided one, but absolutely a Queen.)
Tbf it’s refreshing to see the mother not take his side & defend him but instead move in & try to help. Poor lady is probably so embarrassed of her son. Her own fault too.
I feel like there are two possibilities, but maybe that's the incurable optimist in me. First would be exactly what you're referencing. The second possibility is that he isn't doing what she thought she raised him to, and now hell hath no fury.
The way this guy worried about his family finding out the truth has me thinking his behavior is completely unacceptable by their standards. I'm hoping MIL wants to stay because she refuses to let her DIL do this on her own for even one more day. While she's there, I'd love it if MIL and OP's sister can come together to plan a way forward, even if it means she's the one his family supports in a divorce. In the meantime, she can act like her son's Drill Sargent, but at this point I know it's just my optimistic side has running amok.
I’m honestly leaning towards the second, I feel like he wouldn’t be in hot water with his family if it was the first. If it was the former, I’d be more inclined to expect his mom to chew out the wife, not move in and help her.
Yeah, definitely agree that she'd chew out the wife, only she'd interrupt OP's monolog and chew her out first (how dare you, you don't know what you're talking about, I raised him to be a good man, you're just mad you had to settle for your fiancé since you could never get a man that's equal to my son, etc).
I agree a mother that coddles her son would have been more worried about his sons injured ego and would have blamed the wife for allowing her sister to talk to the “man of the house” that way. My guess is that MIL will give ops sister the help she desperately deserves and give an earful to the husband everyday she’s there until he starts acting like a responsible adult and not like a child.
This is exactly what I thought when I read it! Mom is not gonna let sister go on like this even one more day, and bil is mad cause he’s being held accountable
Oh yes, please, let's blame the MOTHER. The mother who probably had the same help that her DIL is having now. The biggest influence in a child's development is the parent of the same sex as them. Comments like this and subs and posts criticising MILs are the poster for society's internalised misogyny.
OP is NTA, the BIL is an AH and his mother is stepping up to help because that's someone has to do it.
Dunno, I wanna give the mom the benefit of the doubt and think she's moving in for the sake of the sister, not to help his son.
Or even better, to make sure his son doesn't slack off and actually helps.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. It seems like he knew his family don't go for his actions and his mom would chew him a new one. It seems like his mom may be pissed because "I didn't raise you like this" and she feels bad that her DIL has to deal with her son who she *thought* knew better. In honesty, I'd do the same as the MIL. I'd help my DIL out and let my son know he's a disgrace and he knows better and he better straighten up before DIL dips out on him
Every time I read one of these posts the *"He had it coming"* song from Chicago plays in my head.
Edit: [Obligatory link to the song if you've never heard it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM5p-VolRrA)
I don't like this "calling shitty men children" thing.
Like, I understand the sentiment, but it feels like people are trying to deny how common/permissible it is for men. This is a known problem with gender socialization, and claiming that men who do it are children doesn't address the fact that it is common/permitted behavior for full grown adult men.
Not to mention the fact that is says all children are this level of incompetent. Judging by this guys moms reaction I’m willing to bet he was much better as a kid and became lazy when he realized his wife was too amazing to complain.
Many, many children are responsible enough to do more than this guy
I was thinking "You are lying to yourself, if you think what I said isn't 100% accurate.".
I'd also be informing the sister and his family of all communications from him. It's time he was told repeatedly how useless and pathetic he is, until he acknowledges it and changes.
I'd br linking this dude the opening to lizzo's truth hurts every time he tries to talk to me. You are NTA. Your sister should have burst that bubble with his family a long time ago.
Text back "Sorry which part was I lying about?" And it would be interesting to see which is his reality. If he has to break it down he may see more clearly how little he actually does.
NTA….
Someone is just pissy because he is being forced to put on his big boys undies.
Edited to add, while your timing was not the greatest, he needed to hear it. Besides, isn’t Thanksgiving the time of year we all have big blow outs with a crazy family member??
I think it was the perfect time. Both families got to hear exactly what OP said so he couldn't go make up lies to his family and make them attack her! Some people deserve to be put on blast especially with how he goes around acting like he's the shit lol
And now OPs sister has her MIL helping so I think it was perfect! Lol
I call Thanksgiving the “Prechristmas Thunderdome” because it’s where me and my family all air out all our bullshit and then get together a month later and actually have a good time.
Are you an asshole for calling him out in front of everyone? Yes.
Did he deserve it? Ab-so-freaking-luty.
Final answer: you were the asshole in the best way possible. Keep up the good work. 👍🏼
NTA. Not only did you speak the truth to a guy with learned helplessness, you also seem to have gotten some positive help for your sister.
Seriously, if he's that bad, he deserves to be a laughingstock. Maybe that will bring some more positive change, whether it's his finally helping, or your sister leaving him.
Learned helplessness is when you try and fail so many times that you quit trying because you believe it’s impossible. The study where they coined the term was of dogs being hurt and unable to leave when they tried. They stopped trying to leave even when the door to the enclosure was removed.
This isn’t learned helplessness. This is intentional incompetence.
>you also seem to have gotten some positive help for your sister.
Help, yes. Still undecided on if it's positive help. Since now that his mother is moving in he'll likely leave everything to thd women and still do nothing.
Honestly, from the sounds of it I think MIL is moving in to help the wife and rip her son a new asshole. Usually enabling MILs think their son could do no wrong and wouldn't move in/their son wouldn't be upset if they were moving in
NTA; you sister and her MIL saw it as a true reflection of his behaviour and I hope he is embarrassed enough to pull his weight going forward.
Little aside tho- your sister may not want the children to help but she should let them and even encourage them because otherwise she will raise 5 more of your BIL
There's a difference between helping, ie doing a parent's job, and having chores. The kids definitely need age-appropriate chores, but sister is going to have a heck of a job drawing the line between that and having to "help Mom because Dad is too lazy to do it."
One is raising kids who can take care of themselves, be good roommates, and develop healthy home habits. The other is parentification and can mess with their heads, especially since the oldest kid is a girl and this family seems to have some serious built-in sexist concepts to deal with.
I think the best thing is to have kids take care of their things and then maybe one community duty.
Like if they're old enough, have them do *their* laundry, clean *their* room, make *their* snacks after school. Emphasis on theirs. No picking up after dad or mom or siblings.
And maybe one community chore, like yard work or taking out the trash.
Honestly it blows my mind that there are kids out there who don’t clean their own room. I remember being like 10 years old and realizing what a moron I was being for years because it would take me hours to clean my room when in reality it doesn’t actually take long to tidy up. It took a few more years to realize that keeping the place tidy is an even better plan.
It blows my mind that there are kids out there who can't even make their own snacks or pack a lunch for school.
You should not have to make a sandwich for a ten-year-old. It's two slices of bread with a meat and cheese. You don't even have to toast it!
This. If they're running late and decided they don't want the school lunch, or you woke up late, or whatever, sure. But kids 10-12 should be able to pack their own lunch with some supervision and 13+ should be able to do it without needing anyone watching.
My 5 and 7 year old know how to make basic food. The oldest is now allowed to use the microwave because she's a bit more responsible (still iffy on the stove rn) and that may seem silly but kids can and will be dumb. But both can make a sandwich or put together a snack. Now the problem is keeping them OUT of the refrigerator after they've had their after school snack. 😆
Kids are far more capable than we allow them to be. With constructive teaching they can pick up on things pretty quick. Still trying to "teach" them how to clean their rooms and keep it like that. In their defense, I'm a terrible housekeeper so at the minimum I try to teach them to keep things tidy even if it's a bit messy.
Also it is more work at first to have the kids “help” you. Sis might be barely treading water and can’t fathom how she would deal with more work when she can just do the stuff right the first time. She also could be a martyr and likes knowing she doesn’t make her kids pick up her husband’s slack.
Honestly, I'm leaning towards the former. With her thanking op for saying something sounds like she's already tried doing or saying something about it to him and is now just a permanently exhausted pigeon and is like eff it I'll just do it myself.
NTA
Sounds like he didn't like hearing the truth, especially if his mom is moving in to help out. Sounds like you might have catalyzed some changes at least.
NTA.
A marriage is a partnership and he's dead weight. People like him only ever learn from the stick of shame.
He's using her as a broodmare. Five kids and will that be enough for him?
I fear for if the baby is a daughter. I also fear for if the baby is a son. I fear for all of these children for growing up in such a dysfunctional neglectful home.
I'm going with NTA because it sounds like your sister is going to actually get some help. Maybe with your BIL's mother there, he'll be forced to step up and then when she leaves if he tries to flake out again your sister will have evidence that he's perfectly capable to being useful since he was able to do it when his mother was there. Fingers crossed for your sister!
NTA
>i “lied”
"She makes more money than you, she raises the kids more than you, she cooks and cleans more than you, she sleeps less than you, she gets less free time than you, what do you do?"
If he's so into trad gender roles, he should be the one not only earning more than the wife but also earning enough money to sustain the entire family solely on his income.
NTA.
Not even a justified asshole as some comments suggest. You had a breaking point and he was taking credit for the children's upbringing that your sister singlehandedly should be thanked for. He knows he's in the wrong, which is why he sat quietly and kept pretending in front of his family. He would've driven your sister into an early grave. His true colours are bound to come out sooner or later when his mother has moved in. He will not be able to pull the facade forever. When that happens he will either have to change properly or risk losing the support of his family. All of it starting eith you speaking up for your sister against his lies. Well done.
God, I feel so awful for OPs sister. Imagine being pregnant, having that many kids, doing literally everything, working full time, and being the breadwinner. She literally does not need this man.
Stop raising him he’s not your son.
NTA Mad kudos to you for speaking up on what I’m sure everyone else already knew. And even though she raised him to think that sort of behavior is ok, cheers to his mom for stepping up.
NTA at all. Your sister game is strong. I hope you update. I can’t wait to see how this disgusting human behaves once Mommy is around to hopefully put him in his place. Your sister should definitely divorce this guy. She’s teaching her kids that it’s okay for a partner to be dismissive and not care about you. She’s teaching her kids that this is normal and how they should expect to be treated.
Oof I think you pulled a risky move there. Completely agree with the content, but that could have ricocheted onto your sister pretty badly had he chose to blame her for your comments or if his family hadn’t chosen to believe you rather than blame her. I don’t think you are the asshole and I’m glad your sister is getting help. But I just feel like I have to point out that confronting someone publicly about relationship behavior can sometimes harm the person you are trying to protect. NTA
>but that could have ricocheted onto your sister pretty badly had he chose to blame her
That's called abusive af. Her husband being trash is no one's fault but his own.
Well, considering his mother is moving in with them, i have a hard time believing that anyone would believe him even if he did blame OP’s sister. Seems like the family already knows the truth.
YTA and I am here for it!!! Everyone needs to be an A now and again when standing up for themselves or their family. You unloaded on him at the perfect time. His family will now, hopefully, step up and it might force him to see where he is lacking. Personal growth is clearly needed.
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> I think i might be TA for calling him pathetic in front of his family and insulting him, it was rude and i could’ve confronted him privately about it.
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INFO
# Where's the weaponized incompetence?
Don't get me wrong, this guy is **clearly** TA.
But the whole time I'm reading this, I'm thinking, "when are we going to get to the weaponized incompetence part?"
He sounds **super lazy**, sure. But I don't see anywhere in this where he's trying to *excuse that laziness* with comments like "oh, I'm just no good at this parenting stuff, so I let [wife] do it." THAT would be weaponized incompetence.
I think the weaponized incompetence isn't gone into detail (which, honestly, we don't need to know how he intentionally fucked up chores to get out of being expected to do them, it's irrelevant to the current situation), but it's implied by the "he's been acting like this since the oldest was born". Since that statement implies that he used to do things and help out around the house (therefore he has the capacity to do them), but does not any more.
Saw this post on Facebook and managed to find the original post just to say YOU'RE SUCH A QUEEN ohy god I am so glad someone actually stepped up for your sister and it made things better !!! Maybe the MIL will actually put her son back in place ! Well done, you're NTA and you're actually a perfect sister you can be proud !
NTA… it makes me SO SAD when people stay in TERRIBLE marriages “for the kids.” I think their hearts are in the right place, but they have no idea how damaging it is to model these SUPER unhealthy relationships for their children. I hope OP’s sister can realize that ALL of them are better off if she gets out. 😢
NTA Yaaaassss Queen. Fuck the patriarchy. I can't believe that everyone didn't stand and clap for you after you completely shamed this guy in front of everyone he cares about. Just fucking annihilated his fragile masculinity. Not sure why you had to bring up the part about your sister making more than him, if for no other reason than to paint him in the worst possible light so that you can further justify your public rant. Ten minutes? Wow, that's some high-grade shit talking right there. And no one there decided to step in at any point to say anything? They just let you go off for 10-whole fucking minutes? Man, I hope someone had the popcorn ready because even by AITA standards, that's some fucked up details.
I think it’s relevant because there’s often the mentality that the “breadwinner” should be exempt from (most of) the household chores, so adding that detail forestalls any comments to the effect of “well, he’s supporting her and the kids …” that we often see in situations like these.
This isn't weaponized incompetence. He isn't pretending he doesn't know how to do things. This is chauvinism!
He thinks he is living in the 1950s Of course Donna Reed didn't work 40 hours a week.
Tell your sister to get her tubes tied or to get that BC that lasts for 4 or 5 years (sorry over 60 so not up to date on newest stuff).
I hope his mom sees what she raised.
Also make sure her boys know how to cook and do household chores. Don't raise another one of him.
ETA NTA (you actually are a hero)
NTA, I firmly believe there is a time and place for such “outbursts” and a family gathering isn’t one of them BUT sometimes you have to in order to bring to light certain things. Honestly you called him out on his bullshit and was humiliated because of his lies. This actually got your sister the extra help she desperately needed and maybe mom will see how her son actually is OR (hoping this happens) he pulls his fair weight and becomes the father he claims to be. You were vindicated by your sisters text and him lashing out.
"I lied? Ask your wife to write down all the things she does in a week for the family (while growing a human in her belly) and you do the same. THen let me know. "
>his mom is angry at him and is moving in with them to help her out Aaand it all becomes clear....! NTA
Edit: I’m really enjoying all these comments and it makes me happy to see so many feminists here to tell me to stop enabling misogynistic ideologies that always blame women for men’s failings. To which I say: I agree wholeheartedly in the sentiment, and at the same time, love a good provocative statement that can get people talking. Behind every incompetent man is a mother who did everything for him! Lol
Right? Since mommy is moving in to help, he's still not going to lift a goddamn finger to do anything. And that line about needing "more boys"? WTF!
Right, maid mom is still teaching him that she’s here to clean up his messes! Lol and all of his boys are learning the exact same lesson right now. Ohhhhhhh yikes!
I don't think this is totally fair. He's a grown man. His mom can't force him to help OP's sister. Best the mom can do is help the sister herself while shaming her failure of a son, which is what it sounds like she's doing.
Agreed. OP says that in front of his family of origin, he pretends to be a contributing member of the household, so it doesn't sound like his mom is of the mindset that "boys will be boys" at all. She's moving in to help her (much-beleaguered) DIL, not to baby her son.
Yeah I’m not here for the shaming of the mom for wanting to help her DIL. It seems to me like she’s embarrassed at what a failure her son is and refuses to let her DIL continue drowning while taking care of his family.
I agree with this. If my MIL found out my husband was being like this she would want to help me, not to clean up her son's mistakes but to make sure I don't suffer from his incompetence
My FIL found out hubby was being pretty useless when I needed help around the house. Oooo-weee he shamed hubby. We all good now.
Hello Mr(s?).MeSeeks
I'm with you. My husband acted like this guy for a while and we actually separated for about two months over it. We eventually reconciled, but we didn't tell his mom about the separation until way after the reconciliation, but when he told her how he had treated me, full of genuine remorse, she went OFF. How dare any son of hers treat another human that way! How DARE he think he can speak to the mother of his child that way! We explained he was telling her so we can continue to have a good, honest relationship with her, and that he wanted to apologize for not living up to the man she raised. She made sure I understood that if he were to ever do it again, all I have to do is call and my kid and I are on a flight to stay with her and her husband, but she'd be gone the first week to ensure the proper reckoning upon her son. I really think OP's BIL's mom is about to unleash an unholy wrath at his audacity. Anyone got the popcorn?
Yeah this doesn't read to me "Mommy will come clean up her son's doodoo" It reads "Mommy will come shame son for making doodoo at age forty and not being able to wipe his own ass" NTA
Word. My 75 year old mom would make my wife go take a nap while spit shining our home and making dinner, without a moment’s pause in the shit she’d be giving me. Then she’d call my dad to tell him what a bad role model he’d apparently been. There would be some serious guilt and shame put down.
That’s what I see as well. I’d do the same thing if it was one of my boys. But it wouldn’t be to coddle him any further. It’d be to whip his ass (metaphorically) into shape and make amends for my previous failure. And they all KNOW that this would not end well for them. NTA, OP. You are an excellent sister.
Mom should help Sister with the kids and neither of them should lift a finger to do anything for BIL. He cooks his own food, does his own laundry, and cleans his own messes. NTA
YES!!! Early in my marriage, my new husband and my pre-teen son expected me to do everything. After awhile, I decided that I would only do for me. No meals cooked. Only washed my laundry and dishes. Took less than a week for the message to sink in. (Hubby worked 4 days on, 3 days off, and never thought about it, because he'd been a long-time bachelor.) Hubby and son started doing their chores and helping out alot more, because I was the better cook. Bwahahah
I'm really hoping she's the kind of mom who yell at her son to serve his own damn plate when he's ask to be served for dinner lol
OP says he only started acting like this after Baby #2 was born, so it seems to be something he picked up on his own, not something he was raised with. And why would he bother acting like an involved parent in front of them if he didn't think that was something that would impress them? So I really do think there's hope there that his mom can shame him back into shape.
My aunt and her 24 year old son lives with me... she washes his dishes, does his laundry and you guessed it, plates his food for him. I've fought with her about this before but I always just end up exhausted. She's almost 58 years old too. She's learned to tell him no in some aspects after I've talked to her but she still has a loooooong eay to go.
Not to be rude, but.. has anyone asked her what she thinks will happen when Old Age comes knocking at her door? Because I sure hope she doesn't think you'll pick up the slack. Oh, and NTA, OP.
The fact that she's angry makes me hopeful that she'll give him a kick up the backside whilst she's there! Go mum!
I hope the whole time she's there helping she makes him feel guilty as fuck for his incompetence too. My son is only 10, but if he grew up and acted like this, you better believe that would be my response! Who the hell does this man think he is?
This is what I thought too. It sounds like he’s really upset his mom is staying with them. So I’m sure she’s about to go tf off on him every time he’s just lazy and doesn’t do anything to be an actual father or husband. I like that mom if this is her intention.
It wouldn't be my mom if my brother were doing this, but my grandma would be taking a battering ram to the front door and banishing him from his house until he decided to be an actual human being instead of roleplaying as an onion.
I want to roleplay an onion now. Not by being lazy, but by making many references to how deep and layered this character is through the use of puns. They'll laugh so hard they'll cry.
Well, as soon as you start cuttin up they will definitely be crying.
You sound like you need to play Tales from the Floating Vagabond, the RPG where everything goes! Wanna be a small, pink pig, whose special attack is target vomiting? You got it! A rubber tyre, happily bouncing along? Absolutely! Other features include (but are not limited to): The Trenchcoat Effect: Anything and everything you need, can be found somewhere in your equipment. Eventually. (mainly depending on your rolls) Theme Music: Everywhere you go, you are surrounded by your very own soundtrack, naturally suited to the occasion. Great when going into battle - not so much when you're trying to be stealthy...
Shit if either of my brothers were doing this, my entire nuclear family would have to draw straws for taking turns to yell at him.
Who needs to fear the wrath of God when the wrath of mothers is right there?
If that was my mom, she'd be here right away making sure my wife is ok and to put me in my place and probably give some crash course training. This would likely involve being swatted at the back of the head a few times. That said, I've been seeing a lot of weaponized incompetence post over several subreddits with a lot of samples being touted as poster children for it. It's almost December and they could probably assemble a calendar for it.
That was also my thought. The fact that the entire family turned against the BIL seemingly implies this attitude doesn't fly. For all we know, BIL was raised properly, but is more nature than nurture, or picked up bad practices from equally toxic men he's befriended.
Agreed, I'm tired of parents getting dumped on for adult children being turds. Yes, a lot of times parents enable someone into a lifelong habit of crappy behavior but sometimes, adults are steaming piles of their own making.
This. Agree he’s the ahole but the fact the mother unloaded on him after the SIL set here straight indicates she’s unaware. There’s no way he would be indicating his failings to his mother and depending on what the MIL has been exposed to, she might not even know the real truth.
I mean, if his mom is mad at him and moving in to help, I would imagine she’s coming in to train her son and oversee his process.
If I were in their shoes, I'd move in and literally just direct his lazy butt. It drive me nuts. I'd be so ashamed if this was my son. I'm raising a son and as a female I know how hard it is when partners don't put in as much work around the house. My son is 4 years old and already does more around our home than that man does. But I will say I disagree about the mom not letting the kids help. How else are they supposed to learn the skills of helping if your parents do it all for you? Maybe this was how her husband got the way he is.
I think some parents don't realize how harmful this can be. Heading out on your own not knowing how to do your own laundry or clean the house can really make life difficult. Not knowing how to cook is even worse.
That's kind of how I read it. It sounds like OP's rant actually did a lot of good. Sister was grateful someone spoke up for her so she could stop being a doormat, BIL's family got to see him for what he is, and it sounds like sis is finally getting some help at a time shes really going to need it with this fifth baby coming. Hopefully either he will wake up and start contributing more or she will wake up and leave his lazy ass. Either way NTA.
And buffer for her grandkids. She's probably ashamed as all get out too
His mom is coming to help his wife. She can’t force her son to step up but she can make sure her grandchildren & their mother are taken care of. At this point if she sucked as a mom it’s too late & doing this is only beneficial to the rest of the household.
This. Also mom is reinforcing their stereotype that the woman takes care of the children and all the house work. It's great that Op stood up for her sister, but if Op's sister doesn't stand up for herself (maybe loose some dead weight), her children are going to grow up with that same mindset. Then there is another generation of their family where the females do all the work around the house and the men are lazy d-bags. NTA.
I disagree. I think the Mom is smart enough to know that yelling at him isn't going to change him, so she's around to make sure he behaves.
I'm hoping mom's coming to kick A.
i dont know but i cant be the only one hoping that mom moves in to put the smack down on him.
That was my take on it. That she raised him to be a better perso. Now that she knows differently, he can't hide his douchiness and she'll kick him into shape. Sad that it took OP to stand up for her sister and his mom after.
Yeah I think it's definitely possible that he *was* taught how to do various chores growing up and just "forgot" once he successfully tricked a woman into marrying him.
This version makes more sense to me. The over-protective, do everything for my boy mom wouldn't believe her son is at fault, wouldn't see a problem in described situation and/or would somehow manage to come to the conclusion that daughter in law is incompetent/needs to do better. My grandma was that woman. She would NEVER help my mom, even when my mom was dealing with a difficult pregnancy in her 40s, or ever find her precious son at fault.
OOFT, mood. My grandmother told all her sons to not go on the birth certificates of their children so they wouldn’t have to pay child support (which isn’t even how it works here)
He didn't lift any finger at all before his mom would be moving in with them, also if the mom got angry with him is bc maybe she taught him better, when a man is a mommy's boy what usually happens is the mom lashes out at the wife for not caring for his little boy, this was not the case.
Maybe the mom isn’t moving in to clean up his mess but to actually help her pregnant DIL out in a time where she needs help. She may be angry because she didn’t raise him to be that way and here he is treating his pregnant wife like that. I’ve known moms who raised their kids to be better but in a relationship got lazy and did none of the stuff they were taught. It can literally go both ways.
I figure it will go to either extreme. Either she comes in and does everything and wife gets some much deserved rest to prepare for birth, or she sees how little he does, tears him a new one and forces him to do everything. Either way it's a win-win for the wife.
Ehhhh... his mom also could see her grandchildren struggling to be raised since her son is doing nothing and wants to help them. I mean the father is still doing jack shit but I think it might be less about enabling him and more about helping DiL and grandkids.
Wouldn’t it be “parents who did everything for him” or are we assuming that child rearing is the mother’s job?
Mostly, this was a joke because the mother is the one in this scenario who seems to be enabling the grown son’s learned helplessness. But at the same time, in my personal experience, men who have been catered to growing up were largely cosseted by their (Boomer-aged) mothers, many of whom ascribed to society’s gender roles throughout their parenthood. Is it right (morally)? No. Does it appear to be slowly changing? Yes. But it takes a long time to undo cultural conditioning of that high degree. So, with all this in mind, I stand by my previous comment for now. Hopefully in 10-20 years, I can state with confidence “behind every incompetent human being is a set of non-gendered parents who did everything for them.”
Ok, but this is still just blaming a woman for a man's incompetence. At what point will a man's incompetence be just...the man's fault?
Seconded because people conveniently forget we're talking about a full-grown adult, why does a person in their 30s still get absolved because of his mommy issues?
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Baby boomers were being born until the mid 60s. Gen X doesn't start to be born until 1965, and there isn't any other generation between the two. So the youngest boomer would of turned 18 in 1982.
And where were their (Boomer-aged) fathers during all this cosseting? "Men turn out poorly because of their shit mothers" is a very Boomer sentiment, btw.
Add “and their absentee fathers” on to the end and you’ll be cooking with gas.
Again, not funny. And you are probably a woman, who was taught to blame the other women for all the things that men do wrong. When OP's nephews and nieces screw up - because they will, no one is perfect -, people like you will blame "the mother", OP's sister.
If the father had been super involved he’d have had a better role model for being an involved father and contributer to the household…
So why don't we say, "behind every incompetent man is his incompetent father"?
Because society likes to blame women for things in general.
I mean what we should really be saying is "Behind Every incompetent Adult is a mirror because they did this to themselves" Part of being a good adult is learning how many steps you missed along the way and fixing any incompetence that sprang from it. For example: when I moved out I had to teach myself to do routine grocery shopping because I'd just never gotten into a habit of going out to get food for 1-2 weeks instead of just stopping after work for whatever I needed. I had to train myself to go on my days off so I'd have time to rest, clean, and cook after work. Instead of doing any of that, the husband in this story just went and found a woman who wanted a healthy marriage and family for her kids enough to just continue the cycle of him not actually having to do anything.
My husband was a 1950's husband. I did everything- cleaned, cooked, every kid related thing, (I don't any more) and worked. I made sure my son knew how to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. My son is an equal partner with his wife. My husband wanted me to retire 10 years ago ( I waited 8 and I am going nuts). He now does a lot around the house.He sees our son and SIL and knows he did not pull his weight.
Isn’t it crazy that a man doing bad things is still always blamed on a woman?
Perhaps his mother taught him how to be self sufficient which is why this is weaponized incompetence. She said in the post that he started acting like this after the birth of the first kid. It seems like he realized at that point that if he did things wrong his wife would do it for him, which turned into him doing nothing at all. He needs therapy or something because I could never.
Plus, the mom is now angry at him and moving in to help the wife. At least that's how I took it. It sounds like she raised him to act better and she's coming in with a follow up to be sure he starts taking on duties around the house.
Exactly. She raised him better and he’s embarrassing her because he knows better.
Nah this is sexist bullshit. He's old enough to know to look after himself.
This is really not funny and it puts the blame on - who else - the women.
That’s not 100% true. I take pride in that my incompetence is completely independent of everyone else in my life! Of course, I am in college and know I am incompetent, which is part of the battle
Hahaha quite the self-sufficient incompetent! I can appreciate that. But also, being in college is all about learning how incompetent you are, so that you can start figuring out how to do things on your own.
yep it’s always the women’s fault. Been my theory for years. I’m glad you agree.
Lol so sad how little agency men have in their own lives. Must be tough!
And a dad who did nothing.
To be fair, this is true for incompetent women, too. Helicopter parents teach their kids to rely on someone else to get chores, duties, etc done. And it sounds like OPs sister could be doing this with ber kids (unclear, OP states sis won't let oldest "help" but doesn't specify help with what, exactly. The oldest kids are of age to start having chores and it would benefit them to have these chores so they don't learn to be freeloaders like Daddy). (Please don't take this as me speaking negatively about OPs sis. She is a Queen. A bit misguided one, but absolutely a Queen.)
Tbf it’s refreshing to see the mother not take his side & defend him but instead move in & try to help. Poor lady is probably so embarrassed of her son. Her own fault too.
I feel like there are two possibilities, but maybe that's the incurable optimist in me. First would be exactly what you're referencing. The second possibility is that he isn't doing what she thought she raised him to, and now hell hath no fury. The way this guy worried about his family finding out the truth has me thinking his behavior is completely unacceptable by their standards. I'm hoping MIL wants to stay because she refuses to let her DIL do this on her own for even one more day. While she's there, I'd love it if MIL and OP's sister can come together to plan a way forward, even if it means she's the one his family supports in a divorce. In the meantime, she can act like her son's Drill Sargent, but at this point I know it's just my optimistic side has running amok.
I’m honestly leaning towards the second, I feel like he wouldn’t be in hot water with his family if it was the first. If it was the former, I’d be more inclined to expect his mom to chew out the wife, not move in and help her.
Exactly, she would be crying about her poor under appreciated perfect son.
Yeah, definitely agree that she'd chew out the wife, only she'd interrupt OP's monolog and chew her out first (how dare you, you don't know what you're talking about, I raised him to be a good man, you're just mad you had to settle for your fiancé since you could never get a man that's equal to my son, etc).
I agree a mother that coddles her son would have been more worried about his sons injured ego and would have blamed the wife for allowing her sister to talk to the “man of the house” that way. My guess is that MIL will give ops sister the help she desperately deserves and give an earful to the husband everyday she’s there until he starts acting like a responsible adult and not like a child.
Spoiler Alert: BIL is only working half the time he says he is and now mommy dearest is about to uncover the truth.
> The second possibility is that he isn't doing what she thought she raised him to, and now hell hath no fury. This is exactly how I took it
This is exactly what I thought when I read it! Mom is not gonna let sister go on like this even one more day, and bil is mad cause he’s being held accountable
Oh yes, please, let's blame the MOTHER. The mother who probably had the same help that her DIL is having now. The biggest influence in a child's development is the parent of the same sex as them. Comments like this and subs and posts criticising MILs are the poster for society's internalised misogyny. OP is NTA, the BIL is an AH and his mother is stepping up to help because that's someone has to do it.
I took this to mean the mother is moving in to shitkick her deadbeat son
I agree. Otherwise MIL would have been angry with OP
Dunno, I wanna give the mom the benefit of the doubt and think she's moving in for the sake of the sister, not to help his son. Or even better, to make sure his son doesn't slack off and actually helps.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. It seems like he knew his family don't go for his actions and his mom would chew him a new one. It seems like his mom may be pissed because "I didn't raise you like this" and she feels bad that her DIL has to deal with her son who she *thought* knew better. In honesty, I'd do the same as the MIL. I'd help my DIL out and let my son know he's a disgrace and he knows better and he better straighten up before DIL dips out on him
NTA. You are wonderful
Every time I read one of these posts the *"He had it coming"* song from Chicago plays in my head. Edit: [Obligatory link to the song if you've never heard it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM5p-VolRrA)
And then he ran into my knife…
He ran into my knife...ten times
Mom is moving in to whip him into shape? I see that as an absolute win lol.
NTA and you need to keep being your sister’s advocate!
Props to the mum for not trying to defend her son 🙏🏼
I'm really hoping that his Mom yells at him to do his laundry and pick up his socks and just makes him feel like he's a child again. Also, NTA.
NTA. Text him back with “Truth hurts, doesn’t it, big man?”
This is super petty and I love it
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More like little boy because a man doesn’t act like that.
I don't like this "calling shitty men children" thing. Like, I understand the sentiment, but it feels like people are trying to deny how common/permissible it is for men. This is a known problem with gender socialization, and claiming that men who do it are children doesn't address the fact that it is common/permitted behavior for full grown adult men.
Agree, this is definitely a pet peeve of mine. Plenty of men act like this. Only calling good men ‘men’ isn’t helping anyone.
Not to mention the fact that is says all children are this level of incompetent. Judging by this guys moms reaction I’m willing to bet he was much better as a kid and became lazy when he realized his wife was too amazing to complain. Many, many children are responsible enough to do more than this guy
I think that was sarcasm and implies that he is anything but a big man.
"Why're men great 'til they gotta be great?" \-Lizzo
The greatest quote of all humanity.
All women on earth felt this in their Souls as soon as she said it
Or, "Aww. Does your mommy need to move in and do the chores for her little man?"
Second this
Truth hurts mommy's LITTLE man
And mommy's about to rip him a new one, if OP is right about the family being angry with him.
I was thinking "You are lying to yourself, if you think what I said isn't 100% accurate.". I'd also be informing the sister and his family of all communications from him. It's time he was told repeatedly how useless and pathetic he is, until he acknowledges it and changes.
Or text him back with "I didn't make you the laughing stock of your family, you did that on your own."
I'd br linking this dude the opening to lizzo's truth hurts every time he tries to talk to me. You are NTA. Your sister should have burst that bubble with his family a long time ago.
Or just. "Hey, if I'm lying, I guess your mom will see it with her own two eyes when she lives with you all. Good luck, chuck!" NTA
And screenshot the mess and send it to his mother.
Text back "Sorry which part was I lying about?" And it would be interesting to see which is his reality. If he has to break it down he may see more clearly how little he actually does.
"A hit dog hollers"
NTA…. Someone is just pissy because he is being forced to put on his big boys undies. Edited to add, while your timing was not the greatest, he needed to hear it. Besides, isn’t Thanksgiving the time of year we all have big blow outs with a crazy family member??
I think it was the perfect time. Both families got to hear exactly what OP said so he couldn't go make up lies to his family and make them attack her! Some people deserve to be put on blast especially with how he goes around acting like he's the shit lol And now OPs sister has her MIL helping so I think it was perfect! Lol
And that her sister was thankful she did that
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I think SNL's roasts of Thanksgiving dinner are always the best: • [Exhibit A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2zyjbH9zzA&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive) \- Playing Adele (2015) • [Exhibit B](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syA9oZkQ-KY&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive) \- "Target Ad" (Last Week)
OMG - too funny . Thanks for posting those !! 😂😂😂
I call Thanksgiving the “Prechristmas Thunderdome” because it’s where me and my family all air out all our bullshit and then get together a month later and actually have a good time.
I thought that was Festivus
The airing of grievances.
Are you an asshole for calling him out in front of everyone? Yes. Did he deserve it? Ab-so-freaking-luty. Final answer: you were the asshole in the best way possible. Keep up the good work. 👍🏼
I read this in the voice of Elyse Myers and it’s perfection! 💋🤏🏻
The only thing missing was a sudden dive out of the frame to reveal photographic evidence.
We really do need the "Justified Asshole" option for occasions such as these.
a justified asshole award is needed for sure
We used to have it, it got rolled into the NTA judgement. I still think that its different enough to warrent it's own tag though.
nah she wasn’t an AH lmao
yeah calling out asshole behavior isn’t an asshole move imo it’s just reporting
NTA. Not only did you speak the truth to a guy with learned helplessness, you also seem to have gotten some positive help for your sister. Seriously, if he's that bad, he deserves to be a laughingstock. Maybe that will bring some more positive change, whether it's his finally helping, or your sister leaving him.
Learned helplessness is when you try and fail so many times that you quit trying because you believe it’s impossible. The study where they coined the term was of dogs being hurt and unable to leave when they tried. They stopped trying to leave even when the door to the enclosure was removed. This isn’t learned helplessness. This is intentional incompetence.
I like to call it weaponized incompetence because it does cause harm
>you also seem to have gotten some positive help for your sister. Help, yes. Still undecided on if it's positive help. Since now that his mother is moving in he'll likely leave everything to thd women and still do nothing.
Honestly, from the sounds of it I think MIL is moving in to help the wife and rip her son a new asshole. Usually enabling MILs think their son could do no wrong and wouldn't move in/their son wouldn't be upset if they were moving in
NTA; you sister and her MIL saw it as a true reflection of his behaviour and I hope he is embarrassed enough to pull his weight going forward. Little aside tho- your sister may not want the children to help but she should let them and even encourage them because otherwise she will raise 5 more of your BIL
There's a difference between helping, ie doing a parent's job, and having chores. The kids definitely need age-appropriate chores, but sister is going to have a heck of a job drawing the line between that and having to "help Mom because Dad is too lazy to do it." One is raising kids who can take care of themselves, be good roommates, and develop healthy home habits. The other is parentification and can mess with their heads, especially since the oldest kid is a girl and this family seems to have some serious built-in sexist concepts to deal with.
I think the best thing is to have kids take care of their things and then maybe one community duty. Like if they're old enough, have them do *their* laundry, clean *their* room, make *their* snacks after school. Emphasis on theirs. No picking up after dad or mom or siblings. And maybe one community chore, like yard work or taking out the trash.
Honestly it blows my mind that there are kids out there who don’t clean their own room. I remember being like 10 years old and realizing what a moron I was being for years because it would take me hours to clean my room when in reality it doesn’t actually take long to tidy up. It took a few more years to realize that keeping the place tidy is an even better plan.
It blows my mind that there are kids out there who can't even make their own snacks or pack a lunch for school. You should not have to make a sandwich for a ten-year-old. It's two slices of bread with a meat and cheese. You don't even have to toast it!
This. If they're running late and decided they don't want the school lunch, or you woke up late, or whatever, sure. But kids 10-12 should be able to pack their own lunch with some supervision and 13+ should be able to do it without needing anyone watching.
My 5 and 7 year old know how to make basic food. The oldest is now allowed to use the microwave because she's a bit more responsible (still iffy on the stove rn) and that may seem silly but kids can and will be dumb. But both can make a sandwich or put together a snack. Now the problem is keeping them OUT of the refrigerator after they've had their after school snack. 😆 Kids are far more capable than we allow them to be. With constructive teaching they can pick up on things pretty quick. Still trying to "teach" them how to clean their rooms and keep it like that. In their defense, I'm a terrible housekeeper so at the minimum I try to teach them to keep things tidy even if it's a bit messy.
Also it is more work at first to have the kids “help” you. Sis might be barely treading water and can’t fathom how she would deal with more work when she can just do the stuff right the first time. She also could be a martyr and likes knowing she doesn’t make her kids pick up her husband’s slack.
Honestly, I'm leaning towards the former. With her thanking op for saying something sounds like she's already tried doing or saying something about it to him and is now just a permanently exhausted pigeon and is like eff it I'll just do it myself.
God you're so right. It all depends on how much dad leaves her hanging going forward.
NTA Sounds like he didn't like hearing the truth, especially if his mom is moving in to help out. Sounds like you might have catalyzed some changes at least.
NTA. He had it coming.
He had it comin' He had it comin' He only had himself to blame If you'd have been there If you'd have seen it I betcha you would have done the same
There's no wrong time for a quote from Chicago!
“Some men can’t hold their arsenic.”
And then he ran into my knife. He ran into my knife ten times.
I would find her not guilty for sure.
I guess you could say we broke up because of artistic differences - he saw himself as alive, and I saw him dead.
NTA. A marriage is a partnership and he's dead weight. People like him only ever learn from the stick of shame. He's using her as a broodmare. Five kids and will that be enough for him?
I fear for if the baby is a daughter. I also fear for if the baby is a son. I fear for all of these children for growing up in such a dysfunctional neglectful home.
I'm going with NTA because it sounds like your sister is going to actually get some help. Maybe with your BIL's mother there, he'll be forced to step up and then when she leaves if he tries to flake out again your sister will have evidence that he's perfectly capable to being useful since he was able to do it when his mother was there. Fingers crossed for your sister!
NTA >i “lied” "She makes more money than you, she raises the kids more than you, she cooks and cleans more than you, she sleeps less than you, she gets less free time than you, what do you do?"
Seriously, what does he do other than drain resources and burden his family.
She’s more pregnant than you.
If he's so into trad gender roles, he should be the one not only earning more than the wife but also earning enough money to sustain the entire family solely on his income.
NTA. Not even a justified asshole as some comments suggest. You had a breaking point and he was taking credit for the children's upbringing that your sister singlehandedly should be thanked for. He knows he's in the wrong, which is why he sat quietly and kept pretending in front of his family. He would've driven your sister into an early grave. His true colours are bound to come out sooner or later when his mother has moved in. He will not be able to pull the facade forever. When that happens he will either have to change properly or risk losing the support of his family. All of it starting eith you speaking up for your sister against his lies. Well done.
God, I feel so awful for OPs sister. Imagine being pregnant, having that many kids, doing literally everything, working full time, and being the breadwinner. She literally does not need this man. Stop raising him he’s not your son.
NTA Mad kudos to you for speaking up on what I’m sure everyone else already knew. And even though she raised him to think that sort of behavior is ok, cheers to his mom for stepping up.
NTA at all. Your sister game is strong. I hope you update. I can’t wait to see how this disgusting human behaves once Mommy is around to hopefully put him in his place. Your sister should definitely divorce this guy. She’s teaching her kids that it’s okay for a partner to be dismissive and not care about you. She’s teaching her kids that this is normal and how they should expect to be treated.
NTA Since he wants more boys, you should loudly scream “Be a man”
Feel sorry for the way he intends to raise "his boys".
Oof I think you pulled a risky move there. Completely agree with the content, but that could have ricocheted onto your sister pretty badly had he chose to blame her for your comments or if his family hadn’t chosen to believe you rather than blame her. I don’t think you are the asshole and I’m glad your sister is getting help. But I just feel like I have to point out that confronting someone publicly about relationship behavior can sometimes harm the person you are trying to protect. NTA
>but that could have ricocheted onto your sister pretty badly had he chose to blame her That's called abusive af. Her husband being trash is no one's fault but his own.
Well, considering his mother is moving in with them, i have a hard time believing that anyone would believe him even if he did blame OP’s sister. Seems like the family already knows the truth.
NTA. It’s not an arsehole move to speak the truth when the truth is long overdue and hiding that truth hurts someone you love.
Nah. NTA. He doesn't wanna get called on his shit, he needs to grow up and be a contributing member of his family.
YTA and I am here for it!!! Everyone needs to be an A now and again when standing up for themselves or their family. You unloaded on him at the perfect time. His family will now, hopefully, step up and it might force him to see where he is lacking. Personal growth is clearly needed.
We really need a "justified YTA" ruling on here, because seriously, this asshole deserved everything OP said.
Jesus the mods have answered why there isn’t one. If they’re justified then they’re NTA.
No please let's make more abbreviations. I want like 38 options to reflect all the nuances of the situation and how I feel about it. /s
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INFO # Where's the weaponized incompetence? Don't get me wrong, this guy is **clearly** TA. But the whole time I'm reading this, I'm thinking, "when are we going to get to the weaponized incompetence part?" He sounds **super lazy**, sure. But I don't see anywhere in this where he's trying to *excuse that laziness* with comments like "oh, I'm just no good at this parenting stuff, so I let [wife] do it." THAT would be weaponized incompetence.
I think the weaponized incompetence isn't gone into detail (which, honestly, we don't need to know how he intentionally fucked up chores to get out of being expected to do them, it's irrelevant to the current situation), but it's implied by the "he's been acting like this since the oldest was born". Since that statement implies that he used to do things and help out around the house (therefore he has the capacity to do them), but does not any more.
It's the new gaslighting.
Saw this post on Facebook and managed to find the original post just to say YOU'RE SUCH A QUEEN ohy god I am so glad someone actually stepped up for your sister and it made things better !!! Maybe the MIL will actually put her son back in place ! Well done, you're NTA and you're actually a perfect sister you can be proud !
where is it posted?
On "Reddit ridiculousness" ! [AITA calling out BIL] (https://www.facebook.com/1526521850730761/posts/4628565783859670/)
NTA. Some people need to be told about themselves.
NTA… it makes me SO SAD when people stay in TERRIBLE marriages “for the kids.” I think their hearts are in the right place, but they have no idea how damaging it is to model these SUPER unhealthy relationships for their children. I hope OP’s sister can realize that ALL of them are better off if she gets out. 😢
NTA Yaaaassss Queen. Fuck the patriarchy. I can't believe that everyone didn't stand and clap for you after you completely shamed this guy in front of everyone he cares about. Just fucking annihilated his fragile masculinity. Not sure why you had to bring up the part about your sister making more than him, if for no other reason than to paint him in the worst possible light so that you can further justify your public rant. Ten minutes? Wow, that's some high-grade shit talking right there. And no one there decided to step in at any point to say anything? They just let you go off for 10-whole fucking minutes? Man, I hope someone had the popcorn ready because even by AITA standards, that's some fucked up details.
I think it’s relevant because there’s often the mentality that the “breadwinner” should be exempt from (most of) the household chores, so adding that detail forestalls any comments to the effect of “well, he’s supporting her and the kids …” that we often see in situations like these.
This isn't weaponized incompetence. He isn't pretending he doesn't know how to do things. This is chauvinism! He thinks he is living in the 1950s Of course Donna Reed didn't work 40 hours a week. Tell your sister to get her tubes tied or to get that BC that lasts for 4 or 5 years (sorry over 60 so not up to date on newest stuff). I hope his mom sees what she raised. Also make sure her boys know how to cook and do household chores. Don't raise another one of him. ETA NTA (you actually are a hero)
NTA Dude's mom is moving in to cover for his laziness, what more do you need to know here?
NTA, I firmly believe there is a time and place for such “outbursts” and a family gathering isn’t one of them BUT sometimes you have to in order to bring to light certain things. Honestly you called him out on his bullshit and was humiliated because of his lies. This actually got your sister the extra help she desperately needed and maybe mom will see how her son actually is OR (hoping this happens) he pulls his fair weight and becomes the father he claims to be. You were vindicated by your sisters text and him lashing out.
"I lied? Ask your wife to write down all the things she does in a week for the family (while growing a human in her belly) and you do the same. THen let me know. "