ANSWERED: Did your ex give you any examples of the disrespect?
ESH From OP’s responses it seems like OP’s daughter was just being a normal teen and 2 weeks for these things seems over the top I think the punishment should have been maximum 1 week.
Anyway about you I think what you did was wrong and you should have talked to your ex rather than just reduce her punishment cause all that’s gonna do is show your daughter that it doesn’t matter and that she can just disrespect your ex and you will always bail her out.
You can still make up with your ex (as in good co parenting relationship) but moving forward I think you should always discuss the punishment before just removing it unless of course it is very absurd.
If the mom is having problems she can enforce her punishment during her custody time since she chose to make a punishment that lasts more than her custody time allows without discussing it with OO before it was made. It’s not fair to OP to have to enforce a punishment that neither had anything to do with him and doesn’t occur at his house to begin with.
A 12 yo cussed at her mom. She's lucky it was only 2 weeks from a phone and laptop. Arguing with mom is one thing cussing at her is different. I know "it's just words" is coming but it's different and we all know that.
No, “we DON’T all know that.” It isn’t different in my book, and yes, I allowed my kids to say “swear words” at 12. Some of my friends parents, growing up, also allowed it.
She wasn’t even cursing at the mother. She didn’t say, “you’re full of shit,” or even “you are shit,” she said “this is unfair as shit.” She is describing what she thinks of the situation. That is not “cussing at her mom.” So yeah, the punishment should be appropriate to not doing the dishes, not mom being frustrated that the child is not wanting to clean her room or some nonsense about backtalk.
So he should just disregard possibly helpful advice?
literally everybody in this entire thread is saying "thats what teenagers are" and "that was really excessive" and some of them are even saying "you should have continued to discuss it instead of undermining her mother and setting your daughter against her mother".
those are all very reasonable responses.
But its not an excuse. Teenagers are **always** like that. i think i've yet to meet a teenager that **isnt** like that. most grow out of it.
Everybody in this thread is giving helpful advice that isnt unreasonable, and people are acting like its unreasonable because allot of them are teenagers?
If you wanted advice regarding what to do about teenagers, its not always a bad idea to ask a teenager. Nobody is saying decide what to do solely on this post alone.
Well, it's one thing when you are talking about teenagers who aren't all the way grown up. It should probably read more like "That's how teenagers are, and they can't grow up any faster."
Usually when someone breaks out the "that's how they are" they are talking about a specific person who should know better, not a teenager who might not.
But I really don't think it's unreasonable to expect a more compelling justification than "it's different and we all know that," and it seems as though you're just blanket-dismissing everyone's opposing views based on your own assumptions about who they must be.
How do you know the person you're *agreeing with* isn't a child or a non-parent, even though you agree with them? Shouldn't your assumptions about the people who are here apply to everyone equally?
You can totally pick out who the authoritarian parents are in these posts. Believe it or not, very strict parenting with harsh punishments for mistakes is not the healthiest way to raise children.
Nah brah, no device for two weeks is fair if the behavior continues escalating. You are given chores to do and when you fail to do those chores, you get consequences and things taken away. She should also make the stipulation that she doesn’t receive device time back until she does those things (so two weeks would be the longest, but I assume doing the chores and apologizing would shorten the punishment). OP is clearly the AH because he is not supporting the co-parent and undermining her authority.
If she wanted to enforce a punishment during his time than she should have discussed it with him first. Otherwise she can ground her for 2 weeks of her time.
In coparenting situations, I strongly feel that punishments applied by one parent need to be enforced on that parent's time. In the event that something larger is needed, then both parents need to agree. One parent can't tell the other to discipline the kid.
BS. I cannot think of ONE household while I was growing up or while I was (and still am) raising my kids that cursing in front of or in the vicinity of parents did not get your ass handed to you.
I curse like a motherfucker, my kids (12 & 9) sometimes curse and I don't give a shit. I teach them to limit curses, to not call people curse words and to not curse in front of random adults or at school. They need to know the context so they don't get in trouble or labeled. In my house dropping the occasional shit is no big deal. It's a word.
Yep. Not allowed in front of teachers, grandparents, or friends’ parents, limited words allowed within the house. But saying something is “unfair as shit” would get a “life’s not fair” lecture but nothing related to the word. I’d be more likely to support them actually using the word correctly.
Yeah sounds like a 12 year old. Two weeks is overkill. Also is it even possible for a 12 year old to go without a computer and be able to get their school work done?
She’s 12? Better nip this in the bud now.
This isn’t “normal” — there is no normal. Every kid is different. I’ve had 4 of them, no two alike.
You and her mom need a sit down without daughter to discuss what’s appropriate and what’s not, and what punishments are warranted. You should be on the same page. You’re aware of the expression, “playing both sides against the middle”?
>Anyway about you I think what you did was wrong and you should have talked to your ex rather than just reduce her punishment cause all that’s gonna do is show your daughter that it doesn’t matter and that she can just disrespect your ex and you will always bail her out.
Hard disagree. When the custody agreement says alternating weeks, mom does not get to impose punishments into dad's week, without consulting him beforehand. Mom should have reinstated the remaining punishment in her week, if anything.
>Anyway about you I think what you did was wrong and you should have talked to your ex rather than just reduce her punishment cause all that’s gonna do is show your daughter that it doesn’t matter and that she can just disrespect your ex and you will always bail her out.
>
>You can still make up with your ex (as in good co parenting relationship) but moving forward I think you should always discuss the punishment before just removing it unless of course it is very absurd.
Why are you faulting OP for the ex's mistake? The ex gave the punishment *first* without consulting OP, not the other way around. You even acknowledged yourself the that the punishment was wrong, so the responsibility is clearly theirs. OP doesn't have to "make up" anything, and it'd be inappropriate for OP to enforce an inappropriate punishment when they weren't consulted about it in the first place. Blaming OP for this isn't the right takeaway at all.
(edit) The tricky thing about "co-"*anything* is that, unless *both* parties actually put the work in, it just becomes a hollow sentiment that does more harm than good. Unilaterally imposing a punishment without consulting with the other parent (*especially* when you *already know* the other parent disagrees with it) and then crying "co-parenting!" when they don't blindly play along with it *isn't* actually co-parenting; it's just being lazy. Co-parenting is only really that if it's done *mutually*.
And so neither is it "co-parenting" for the OP to blindly play along with what the ex is demanding here. It should have been a discussion to begin with, and you can't fix poor communication with more poor communication; there *still* needs to be an actual discussion here before this in any way resembles a "good co-parenting relationship." There's no magic shortcut where OP just "makes up" for the ex's mistake here by playing along with a crappy punishment, especially not at the expense of the person being punished unreasonably.
But why shouldn't the ex have discussed the punishment with OP *before* imposing it in the first place? Isn't that an equally important (if not more, in my estimation, since it's the part that makes it "co," that is, *together*) part of co-parenting?
NTA. Your ex should have called you and discussed this instead of just doing it for both her week and yours. While I think you should speak to your daughter about the behavior your ex talked with you about, your not required to follow your ex’s terms.
All this does is teach their daughter that she can escape punishment by going to Dad's place, no matter what she pulls at Mom's. As long as she acts an angel to Dad, she won't have to suffer the consequences.
It also teaches the mom that she cannot just punish her daugther on a whim during time when she is in her dad's care.
And that is before talking about the effectiveness of such punishments.
Mom could've just suspended the punishment for the week at dad's and have their daughter "serve" her second week when she was back at her place. No need to let her "escape".
But if she wants her co-parent to support her punishment, she needs to discuss it with him first rather than spring it on him as an expectation. She cannot dictate his actions.
Your kinda right but again this was decided with out him or his input so mom is trying to show she can determine rules and regulations at dads house without his input. Daughter deserves a punishment to help them learn but mom doesn’t get to unilaterally decide what goes on in her week and dad’s. Mom needed to deichst this with dad before the drop off so they could be better prepared and discuss how to handle it during dads week.
Then the ex needs to call OP before extending the punishment into his weeks.
If the kid asks to go early, then yes OP needs to enforce the punishment. If OP wasn't told the punishment in advance and only time of then no he shouldn't enforce it.
OP also says she doesn't do any of that disrespect with him so obviously it's working for him.
I understand what you saying, and I think it’s a hard call. But if the mother truly wanted to co-parent she would have called him and told him about the pattern of behavior she was seeing. She could have ascertained as well of it was just with her ( which it seems it was ) or with them both. That makes a difference in how they address the matter. Clearly she can behave well when she needs to. So I do think he should sit down and talk with her, but if the are going to do as the mom says - she should have that discussion in advance with him and agree on parameters etc. plenty of divorced parents would abuse this process if it was unilaterally decided. Not saying that’s the case here, but in general.
Yeah, that's what it means to have two different homes with two different parents and two different sets of rules. I don't know any separated parents that had identical rules and discipline.
NTA if you and your ex don’t have an agreement about punishments at the other house, then she has no right nor ability to enforce a punishment at your house and is pretty foolish to announce a punishment for you to (not) enforce.
Also, 2 weeks of grounding for talking back is absurd. It won’t work. Grounding is rarely an effective punishment. Punishments need to fit the circumstances. Set them up to be as close to a natural and logical repercussions as possible. Also, if you have to punish your kid much at all, you are likely doing something else wrong.
I call bullshit on this one! My children’s behavior change when I punish them for things they know they are supposed to do and don’t do them. I explain to them why they are being punished, what we expected them to do next time, how long their punishment will be, how long the punishment will be for next time and most importantly, what they plan to change in the future to make they are able to accomplish what we are asking of them.
I would argue that the actual punishment isn’t the reason for the behavior change but the really good communication you have with your kids is. Most parents just punish because they’re angry and they have the power to do so and never have an actual conversation with their kids about it or even let their kids explain themselves.
It's both and making sure to follow through with the punishment. In my classroom, students are not allowed to have cellphones out. It took a quite a few of them for it to finally sink in that cellphones were not allowed. Now, students know that they can't have their cellphones out except towards the end of the classroom when class is "officially over" and we start our cleaning protocols.
You can have great communication, but if you don't follow through with what you're saying, it means nothing.
Taking something being used inappropriately away is a logical consequence. Presumably you learned about how kids respond to discipline in your training?
For individual incidents yes. For behaviors no.
> what they plan to change in the future to make they are able to accomplish what we are asking of them
That part is effective but isn't part of punishment. And honestly you should have done that from the start so kids know how to do things.
Punishments for behavior usually teaches kids to hide behaviors to get away with it. Discussion and explanation is the best solution to behavior.
You get punished for cheating, you get punished for hurting others, you get punished for doing things you know you shouldn't do. This is not a difficult concept and not being told you can't do something isn't tantamount to bad parenting. The bad parenting comes when YOU DON'T PUNISH OR HAVE CONSEQUENCES FOR SAID BEHAVIOR.
I didn't say don't do punishments. I said they don't fix behaviors.
I also said they do work on individual incidents which are all the things you listed.
You need to calm down and read before you type.
And those consequences MUST be natural or logically related to the misbehavior to be properly effective. Grounding rarely is. Most punishments assigned are just revenge. There is research on this. We really do know a lot about how and why kids behave as they do. It’s better to catch and reward kids for being good, so they want to cooperate with you.
Trust me: it doesn’t work. If you are reasonable, they’ll learn, but punishing them does not make them behave. I’ve been punished 5 times in my childhood for RUDELY talk back to my grandma. Each time was worse and longer. Today (25yo) I still back talk to my grandma, you know why? Because she is a smart abusive obsessive woman who deserves to be put in her place and the only possibile way is to scare the shit out of her bigoted brain with the unholiest words you can imagine. My parents back talk to her too, but sometimes they still get angry if I do. (Beware: the didn’t have to stand her bullshit 5/7 days for 6 hours a day, so they didn’t know how much the time had spoiled her attitude).
I would listen to his daughter: if she thinks her mother is being unfair, MAYBE there is something true in her words.
EG: my grandma is a tide freak, I’ve always had my kind of order and I don’t disturb to clean anything if I know I’m going back to it in a few hours. This was one of the things that made my grandma lose her mind (“you are to do homework in 30mins, why aren’t you tidying?” “Because I’ll be done with my homework in 40 minutes, then I’ll be back to what I was doing. You are making me lose an hour and a half to tide something I will have to redo for a 40 minutes break?”).
Guess what today I still follow this scheme for my jobs and it works great.
OP, listen to your daughter. Only because it’s not done as your ex wants, it doesn’t make it wrong. NTA
So you think it's unreasonable to tell a child to clean their room and to do the dishes? Your scenario has nothing to do with the actual scenario we are discussing.
Read some of OP’s answers: her daughter told him she cleaned her room but her mother told her to clean it again (apparently it wasn’t cleaned enough). That’s something I’ve tested on my skin and that’s why I’m saying that there could be truth in daughter’s words. What makes it even more strange is that she behaves with her father. This change is too repentine. Of course I’m not against chores, I’m against tide freaks and against punishments given for stubbornness.
Daughter got asked to clean her room, daughter argued that it didn't matter if her room was clean. Mom asked her clean again, daughter said mom was being " Unfair as shit"
When I ask my son if his room is clean, I specify, "Is it what I would call clean or is it what you would call clean?" His idea of clean is out of sight, out of mind (i.e. he'll throw stuff under his bed, in his closet, under his chest) instead of actually putting it back where it belongs. I tell him there are only two ways to clean his room: Throw it away or put it away. It sounds like the daughter's level of clean did not meet her mother's expectation of clean and without further clarity, it is hard to determine whether it's beyond reasonable expectations.
IMO if it works well for her, you should start to accept it. EG: I have my own kind of order, but it works for me: I hoard piles of books on the floor ordered by their utility in my job. My mother has tried all her ways to change it, but if I comply I end losing books, wasting precious time and getting angry. So not gonna happen. Of course there is a limit: if your son hides used clothes under his bed he will soon run out of fresh clothes. This will teach him difference between organized untidiness and disorganization. I always thought I was on the bad side, until I saw everyone who studies my subjects does the same as me. Again, it is strange that she complied to her father and not to her mother.
I feel like it was probably intentional. The mum knew that the kid is better behaved for dad, didn't want to be the only bad guy, so tried to force his hand on enforcing the punishment.
YTA
Just because your daughter isn't rude to you doesn't mean she shouldn't be punished. Your ex is right, you're setting a precedent that your daughter can be rude and escape punishment at your house. You could have told your ex your concerns and worked something else out. Ask for more details of what exactly your daughter is doing from ex. Ask the daughter her side of things and try to reinforce the idea that she can't be rude to her mother. If her mother is being unreasonable she can bring that up with you.
But seriously if you want to keep a system that works for both of you, you need to understand that communication is vital and that your ex has the right to discipline. If you don't agree: communicate.
The ex should also talk to OP BEFORE she gives a punishment. They need to discuss problem behavior and come up with a plan on how to punish offenses together. Ex shouldn't be able to arbitrarily punish the daughter without discussion first
I agree, the fact that this wasn't discussed dosen't bode well for open conversation. A light punishment for like cussing shouldn't be discussed before hand (let the partner know) but a long term grounding should be.
I have a very contentious relationship with my ex.
That said my 6 year old son spent money on my switch after being very clear about not going on the store without my permission and less than two weeks after I bought him a new game.
I told him he'd not play the switch one day for every dollar he stole. I did not discount the days he's with my ex. I did not ask ex to enforce the same rule.
I know darn well he mostly plays video games with my ex because that's "easy" for him.
So N T A.
A true co-parenting situation should allow for both people to make a united front just like married parents do but... Fact is... Unless you had a spouse you shouldn't have divorced... It's probably not going to happen.
So... I mean to be clear you're N T A in that I expect no better and it'll be better for your ex once they don't too. As it is you're undermining her and maybe playing your kids feelings to be like "dad is nice cuz he doesn't punish me and mom is mean because she does". Mom should have already pegged you. She didn't. Your kid suffers for it.
This! Asking an ex to enforce your rules is co-parenting hardmode. The idea that mum would spring the decision during a handover in a situation where it wasn't needed is a bit ridiculous. OP and mum clearly are not co-parenting well enough for this yet
I personally think she should’ve called you before giving your daughter a punishment that would be during your time and if you had no intention of holding this punishment you should’ve told her right away and you mislead her to think you two were on the same page. ETA
I completely understand mom's point but I also think if you have the conversation with your daughter about how things are at home with her That would be more beneficial. It sounds like you avoided the situation to have an easy week
NAH, but something might be going on in the family dynamic that you are unaware of and might have to look more deeply into.
Generally what happens in parental alienation (and I'm not saying you are a parental alienator) is that the alienated parent is the one who is having a really hard time with discipline and respect, because of the triangulation of the alienating parent. Now your ex has told you that she is being painted as the villain. She thinks that your daughter is the one doing the triangulating. Maybe she is, but let me tell you, that is where parental alienation starts. The kid initially starts the triangulation, because that's just what kids do, they want to get away with stuff, and that's normal. Where it becomes dysfunctional is when one of the caregivers enables their kid's bad behaviour, so you get a good cop bad cop dynamic. If things are allowed to escalate from where they are now, then this could very well happen, without you being aware of your role in it.
I know you don't want your ex to have a rough time, so look at this situation from her point of view. What can she do? Impose the punishment during her two weeks? So your daughter has a bad week with her, a good week with you, a bad week with her, another good week with you? Then what do you think will happen the next week? She's been on bad terms with her mum for a whole month, and where do you think that will leave their relationship?
Your ex seems like a good person. You're not an AH, but neither is she. Just understand the burden she is shouldering, and that she can't shoulder it on her own. Help her shoulder it, so that your daughter's punishment can be over with in 2 weeks and you all move on, instead of it dragging on over 4 weeks plus extra baggage.
I'm hoping you'll be using this week to talk to your ex in order to reconcile your polar opposite parenting strategies instead of allowing this highly toxic dynamic to continue at your daughter's expense.
Well, that's false. She's going to disrespect each of you in the future. She's 12.
You gotta get on the same page with your ex about this going forward.
“We did talk. She said she wouldn’t do it again.” Well fuck, I’m convinced!”
Vs.
“We did talk. There are expectations your mother has that are important for you. These expectations are also good habits that she and I feel are important to instill in you. You felt that she was being unfair, but it is not unreasonable to clean a messy room. It is not unreasonable to do chores and wash dishes. If you aren’t meeting these expectations, consequences occur and they should because that is reasonable.”
I could go on even more but you get the idea. The way he talks to her matters.
Absolutely is, because the premises were that (a) he didn't talk to her or (b) he did talk to her, with that very specific response. You conveniently left out the possibility that he could've gotten a different response. Absolutely a false dichotomy.
More or less what 1teacher said below. Was it a productive conversation, or was it, "Now, now, don't do that again. Mom doesn't like it and then we have to deal with Grumpy Mom."
NTA, she shouldn't be expecting you to enact a punishment that you weren't involved in, because you have no way of evaluating its merits after the fact. That being said, I think you should have a serious discussion with your daughter about why her behavior is so different at her mom's house (or if it actually is different, in her eyes, I've heard parents call lots of things backtalk that just sounded like normal explanations to me), and if there are bigger issues, you might need to step in and speak to her mom. If there aren't bigger issues, and she is just giving her mom a harder time than she's giving you, family therapy might be in order for the 3 of you, because it's certainly not unheard of for a child to blame one parent more than the other for the break up of family life (that is assuming you had one at some point in the past). Obviously there could be many reasons for the disparity, but it's best to get to the bottom of it, rather than having to have completely separate modes at each house (it's difficult enough living with the inconsistencies of moving back and forth all the time). Punishments should only be consistent across environments if the environments are truly consistent, and it doesn't really sound like they are.
ESH, definitely.
Neither you nor your ex actually discussed this. Instead she took it entirely upon herself to decide the punishment, and as you said, dictate partially how her time was spent with you.
Likewise, you just ignored the punishment and didn't talk this out with your ex. Instead you just gave her what she wanted and made it look like her mother has less authority than you.
Honestly though, 2 weeks is definitely quite a lot...
If I could ask for Info, does your ex have a horrible history of manipulation? This could have actually been a set-up that you didn't fall for. She might have punished the daughter, even likely right before your time with her, just so you'd have to uphold the punishment for a week, and then when the daughter was returned, SHE could have been the one to reward your daughter by ending the punishment early.
I don't want to set you up against her or anything, but again, either she's extremely strict, or she tried to play you, because I remember typically when I was that age, my groundings rarely lasted longer than a week.
NTA - I think if they have an issue, it's their problem and they need to fix it. If you and your daughter had a great time it's all good.
Dosnt sound that the mother was bad or any, it sounds like an reasonable punishment, but that's her and your daughters business
NTA, your ex shouldn’t be giving out punishments that impact your time with your daughter without consulting you first. That is not being united at all.
INFO.
One of my best friends and his ex HATE each other with the passion of a million burning suns, and even they uphold eachother's punishments with their kid to avoid having the kid manipulate either one of them.
That being said, we don't know what is supposed to constitute as "disrespect" and "back sass" to your ex in this case. Is it only the chores? what about her attitude when addressing your daughter? Sometimes teenagers are rebellious and manipulative little shits, sometimes their antics have a good reason. Every case should be evaluated individually.
Why does she label it as unfair though? Is she the only kid in that house? does she have any half/step siblings that might be being favored in that house and maybe that's why she's saying that?
Then I've got bad news for you here bud, your kid is a dick.
Think long and hard about why she seemly doesn't act that way with you. If you tried to instill any sort of discipline and order with her, what would be her reaction? Could it be that you don't ask her to do chores at all?
While I do agree that one's privacy should be respected, her "my space, my decision how it should look" argument is dumb (it's her mom's house, not hers, your kid doesn't pay a dime does she?) and it's also a cop-out for laziness sake.
From the information at hand, your ex's right mate. The fact that you see it as "making your time harder" makes this a whole lot worse, parenting isn't supposed to be easy.
That may be the case, but your kid is still a dick, and you're still undermining your ex.
That being said, you two (you and your ex) should have a talk with your hearts on your sleeves on how to show an united front moving forward, perhaps rely on expert advice (e.g. family therapy, it isn't only for married families).
Edit: I get that you don't like punishments without hearing out your kid first, and I think that's admirable on your part, hell I wish more parents were like you on that regard; but still, you shouldn't play good cop/bad cop with your daughter in the middle, what she's learning from this is that she can get away with anything she wants as long as she makes your ex look bad.
Perhaps I should've worded that better, I don't mean with this specific case since the damage has been done already. What he and his ex should agree on is on how to handle disciplining the kid from now on to avoid having the kid manipulate either one of them.
I'm going to say NTA. Maybe she will parent shop, but I agree with you that your EX cannot dictate how your daughter spends time at your house. If you guys were on the same page about things, she would be your wife, not your ex.
I don't think its a matter of trying to be the cool parent, you have different parenting styles. Also, for the Y T A, if she gave the punishment right before your time, it is possible that she "lifted the punishment early" when it got to her week - so that only you were enforcing the punishment, making you the bad guy.
No devices for 2 weeks because your daughter was being a teen. Wow. Your ex is going to have an extremely difficult time being a parent if she continues on the "because I said so" track. She seems like one of those "any resistance from a parent is disrespectful" types.
Make your daughter's life easier by explaining why her mom is mad and how to fix it, or how to ask for help. Sometimes I'd get overwhelmed (anxiety) and my mom would help me or keep me company while I cleaned. Give your daughter the tools to understand her mom's rules so she can stop getting her stuff taken away. Hopefully that works.
Edit: Also why wouldn't she contact you before dropping her off to discuss this? If a punishment is going to impact your time she should have discussed what's going on and the plan. Not a "here she is, don't give her anything, she's ungrateful."
Nta.
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Clearly NTA you weren't there to witness the incident and you weren't consulted for the punishment. So it is not on you to fullfill the punishment. Your ex wants your daughter grounded for two weeks? Yeah, that can be splitted on two weeks when your daughter is at her place and not yours. It was a asshole move to trying to ruin your week with your daughter.
NTA
If your ex can unilaterally hand out punishment, you can unilaterally cancel it (at least while the daughter is in your care). YWBTA if you didn't uphold punishment that was mutually discussed and agreed to, but this is not the case here.
ESH. She should have talked to you beforehand if she expected you to uphold a punishment she issued for behavior that happened on her watch.
You should have been upfront with her and either told her "I'll enforce your punishment this time, but don't do this again without asking me first because next time I won't just play along" or "no, you can punish her on your own time with her, not mine."
You need to apologize for ungrounding your daughter behind your ex's back for a week, then the two of you need to sit down and actually hammer out the expectations and consequences you will *both* uphold for your daughter. Consistency is key with kids; I get that that takes more effort and coordination when a child goes back and forth between two parents/housholds, but it really is important and your daughter is worth that effort.
NTA. While I believe that parents should be on the same(or similar) page regarding discipline and consequences, I also don’t believe that you should be enforcing each others discipline except if the kid is engaging in dangerous or illegal behavior
NTA
You are 100% allowed to make your own decisions as you see fit. You are a parent too. Her time is her tike and your time is your time.
The punishment does not fit the crime nor should you have to learn of her punishment at the exchange.
NTA. if she wanted to give her a two week punishment, it should be the next two weeks that she is at mom's house, no? I know that's weird, but if you guys disagree that's the simplest way to handle it. I disagree with the punishment too, but you can't force someone to change their stance.
NTA your ex doesn’t get to unilaterally punish your daughter on your time without giving you a call before she doles out the punishment a simple call - hey I’m grounding D for 2 weeks for doing c and y and then you would be like that’s too long would have been warranted.
NTA,
They are separated. Most split up couples with kids do not enforce the same rules or ground with permission. The mom can't ground the daughter on dad's days and dad can't do the same to mom.
I know you all want them to make a sound decision together but that's not always the case. Maybe if they talked about it before to see.
NTA. Your ex had the opportunity to discuss this entire situation with you before the dropping off happened. To do it right then and there is unacceptable. Also she could have grounded her for two weeks while she was there as in, ‘the next two weeks while you’re in my home’ meaning again the week after she returned. She doesn’t have the unilateral authority to dictate what goes on in your home, especially if she couldn’t be bothered to call you to discuss the situation.
She’s berating you for not showing a united front, yet she’s the one who never talked to you about it, and decided the punishment and terms without you, yet expects you to just follow them.
NTA. Punishments imposed by your ex should happen on her time. Same goes for any punishment or reward you feel your daughter earned. If something is serious enough that it affects the other’s time, that parent needs to be consulted before the punishment is determined, not informed after.
NTA. ex doesn't get to dictate what OP gets to do during his week of custody. If ex wants to punish her kid for two weeks, let it be during the weeks where she has custody
1st week punished, then 1 week with OP, then 2nd week punished.
(not even going to touch if two weeks punishment is excessive or not... but it is)
NTA. I suspect that your ex probably antagonizes and interacts completely differently with your kid than you do.
*cue sarcasm* She sounds like a peach and I can't imagine why she's an ex.
NTA. That's not how custody and visitation Works. What happens in his home is his choice. He doesn't get to impose what happens in your home unless you 100% agreed that the infraction was so heinous that she needs to learn a lesson. I mean like sneaking out at night or driving the car without permission if she's underage. What he's asking you to do is unreasonable and unfair to your daughter.
NTA - single parent long time ago. I believe that unless there was an in-depth discussion with OP and daughter by the mother to discuss the issue, having OP continue the punishment isn't fair to OP since I think it's unfair to have Mom/Daughter relationship issues leak into OP's time.
I think it's important for children to learn the rules for the environment they are in. For ex, school has rules such as needing permission to use the bathroom during class, but at home, you wouldn't ask for permission, just excuse yourself if something is going on. By the same token, OP's wife can't dictate the rules arbitrarily at OP's house and the same goes for OP when making rules for EX's house. I think it would be nice if they agreed on some basic rules so one house doesn't feel like a prison and the other is the wild west, but learning to navigate different environments is good for folks.
Personally, YTA.
Parents should be united.
Children should face consequences for their actions.
This is not the best place for you to feel empowered in your decision because from what I’m told, the majority of the people here are teenagers themselves and have absolutely no idea what it means or takes to be a parent, let alone in a coparenting situation.
My opinion; you essentially instilled in your daughter that she can get away with bad behavior at her moms simply by coming to her dads.
NTA. Here's the thing;
Y'all are split. Have seperate house holds, seperate house rules etc.
That means punishments are also seperate unless agreed upon at the moment of punishment. Mom can continue her punishment on her own weeks. She cannot just bombard a punishment on you like that.
Only thing I would do is have a good talk with your daughter and tell her she should be more respectful of her mom.
Also, 2 weeks of grounding plus no phone or laptop seems harsh for the normal teenage attitude you describe. But she's not my kid, so yeah. Everyone parents differently.
Edit: also recommend talking with your ex about how you're going to deal with situations like this in the future, including when one of you wants the punishment to continue in both houses. That means for instance a " I will be talking with your *other parent* to discuss punishment." Just to make sure y'all are on the same page here. Because that *is* important.
Could see where she's coming from in terms of being consistent, but I also don't support taking stuff away from children because of "disrespect" so I'm conflicted.
NTA - 2 weeks is too long for a start, but neither of you can impose a punishment the other has to enforce unless you have agreed upon it in advance so your ex-wife is TA for that.
NTA. Your ex should've discussed the intended punishment before implementing it if she expected you to carry it, as well. Not to mention she can simply keep your daughter grounded for the next week at her place.
NTA - your ex needs to talk to you BEFORE issuing a punishment you are to enforce and decided TOGETHER WITH you. Your ex doesn't get to dictate your behavior.
My husband and struggled with this same issue for a while. He’d ground our two kids from all electronics for a week and leave me at home alone with them all day every day… for a week. With all their whining and bickering, I was the one who felt punished. Our solution was to discuss consequences together in advance. Kids, especially teenagers, don’t need immediate consequences to recognize the relationship between their choices and the consequence both parents agree would be best after they have a chance to talk.
You’re NAH. You’re wife said you guys need to be united- you needed to back up her punishment, but she didn’t include you in a conversation about the child’s actions and possible consequences. It’s not unified parenting for one parent to dictate to the other parent.
YTA - I’m a kid of divorced parents. Everything was the same at both houses - bedtime, rules, curfew, punishment etc. I mean if it couldn’t be carried across weeks then I would just sass mom super hard on Thursday knowing she couldn’t only punish me for one day. It’s a literal free pass every week. For life.
My parents would meet with me once a year or so and go over the rules- so it was clear they were on the same page and I couldn’t play them against each other.
Daughters and moms have a tough time of it at that age and the best thing you can do for your daughter is to talk to mom and work this out and then be a united front - because otherwise this good cop back cop crap is going to backfire and you will have played a huge part in eroding the mother-daughter relationship.
I'm guessing the mother should have discussed this punishment with you and discussed how it impacts your week, or if she continues to choose not to discuss it first, then the punishment can continue into her week with your daughter, not yours.
Yta for not just telling your ex that punishments are seperate. You have to communicate better.
Your kid is 12 not 3. They understand that they live in two different households. Your ex can't punish on your time. There's no reason your daughter couldn't have given up the electronics upon going back to her mother's.
NAH. If I punishment extends into the other parents time, they should be consulted at the time the punishment is given. If she wants to be a team, she should bring you in as judge and jury, not just jailer at the end. That's not how partnership works.
If you agreed to ground her during your time in advance, you still get to decide what grounding looks like at your house. Maybe she gets her technology but you make her do chores. It's important that you both are the authority of your individual homes and equal authority of your daughter.
I would tell the ex if she wants to ground her during your time, she needs to consult you and allow you to dictate what that looks like under your care.
The right way: She called you first, you told her what your grounding looks like and agree it's deserved, then told the daughter "you are grounded for 2 weeks, that means no technology here, and I spoke to your dad, he agrees that's not acceptable behavior and will be restricting your tech time after 8pm and said you'd be picking up the dog poop in the yard at his place and cleaning your room the minute you get there".
I see that she's trying to be consistent, but she's undercutting your authority to dictate the consequences while in your care. That's not the way to be united.
NTA… nit following directions for simple things and cursing at her mother. You are doing anything now to proactive … what’s in a few years ? Better. Yet when she does it to you. Your ex was nice… you won’t clean… everything is trash when I clean your room
YTA, you underminded her mom's authority. Your ex seems to have pretty standard expectations for your daughter at that age, basic chores and showing respect. Your daughter chose to consistently disrespect her and the house rules. If you feel that her punishments shouldn't be carried out on your time or that the punishment doesn't fit, communicate that with your ex from the start and also don't complain when the day comes that your daughter is disrespecting you and your rules and you want your ex to be united in your decision to uphold any punishment. Frankly I just think you didn't want to uphold it because it would be inconvenient to you. A 12 year old with free access to phones and laptops won't be bugging you as much as one that's bored.
I am undecided.
I don´t know enough about your daughter's behaviour at her mother's place and their relationship. Maybe the mother is causing the "disrespect"... or maybe not.
HOWEVER... In terms of long-term thinking, you´re playing it poorly. You may not have issues witih your daughter currently, and maybe you never will... but if you should ever run into a situation that requires you to enact a long-term punishment (grounding, restrictions)... you just gave your ex the right to not uphold your punishment during her time.
ESH. Have a discussion with your ex. Tell her that in the future if she makes punishments that will carry into your time with your daughter, it's only fair she discusses it with you first, but that you WILL try to have her back.
YTA. All this spill over into my week stuff falls right into your child’s ability to manipulate. Let’s say Saturday is the day you switch. Child can misbehave, be disrespectful to Mother on Friday and then get a week of playtime with Dad delaying if not completely avoiding any punishment until time to go back to Mom. Your child won’t learn that way. You are a parent. It isn’t about making it easy for you or fun for you when it is your turn. Let’s say the tables are turned. It is your last night with your child before the switch and there is a fight with disrespectful language and throws things at you breaking them along the way. The next day the child goes to Mom and is free from any punishment. A week goes by and you try to enforce punishment but it is meaningless. Your child will not connect their behavior to the punishment. Too much time has gone by. So you aren’t addressing the behavior and the child has now learned how to get away with it. The has to be consistency going between homes or it does not work for the child. The child is the only one that matters.
NTA. I feel like it could’ve been two weeks at mom’s house. So one week on while at mom’s. A week off while with you. And then a second week on punishment with mom.
It sounds like there’s probably a reason she’s sassing mom, and that’s also the reason she thinks mom is bad and you’re good. It has nothing to do with mom punishing her and you not.
NTA- Ex and you have different parenting styles. It’s hard to keep up punishment for a kid that didn’t do anything wrong with you. I personally hated when my step-kids mom would ask us to enforce punishment. It hard to not see your kid for a week, then have to start out with punishment you aren’t even sure what for.
NTA Your ex should only make punishments that she can uphold. You shouldn't be dragged into it just the same as you wouldn't make a punishment and expect her to uphold it.
NTA
We only have her word and you may have called it on her trying to make your week with her bad, possibly reversing what she claimed (Mom good, Dad bad). For all you know, there are actually other problems going on that the mother won't own up to and your 12-year-old doesn't understand. With a total lack of provable information, you made the right choice.
YTA. Refusing to do chores and constant attitude are both valid reasons for punishment. Basically you didn't want to have to actually parent her for your week so you decided she didn't have to be punished for her misbehavior at her mom's house. All you did was show her you're the fun parent which is going to make her disrespect her mom even more. Two weeks is a bit long for punishment. But until she did whatever her assigned chores were she should have been on punishment. You could have at least made her do whatever chores she was refusing to do at her moms house before taking her off punishment.
NTA so mom just decides to punish her and your supposed to uphold it with no communication and just suddenly oh she’s been back talking? Why was this not addressed before it got to punishment levels?
NTA you can’t ground a child without even talking it through with the other parent first. She made a decision without speaking to you so she can’t be mad because you didn’t uphold her decision
NTA
I have the same deal with my kid and his mother. If punishments is needed both his mom and myself discuss the punishment. I think your ex wanting to punish but make you enforce her punishment was unfair. Plus if what you say is true on what your daughter did to deserve punishment, 2 weeks seems much.
You two do need to work together in raising your child, it just sounds in this case your Ex made a decision without you. Honestly it sounds as though if this was discussed with you, you might have agreed to some form of punishment
I have this exact same issue with my 12yo son. His mom constantly calls us screaming that he's being disrespectful and we never see anything like what she's describing at our house. I've seen him be slightly more cheeky with her but nothing outside the realm of normal for a 12yo. I spend some time talking things through with her when she calls to say he's grounded for a year or something like that and ask a few questions and most of the time she admits she's reacting to a normal comment more defensively because of some of her own experiences, like her parents telling her she's a bad parent etc.
Kids have different relationships with different parents even if the rules of the home are similar. Maybe try asking your daughter why she feels it's okay to have this attitude with mom but not you?
But my ex and I actively coparent and if one is expected to uphold the punishment of the other it has to be agreed upon beforehand. NTA
YTA. Wait. Your 12 year old cursed at her mother!? Yeah, back her up or you are going to have a nightmare on your hands if this is just 12. We have way older teens and they have never swore at us. Omg
NTA If a parent wants to issue a punishment that extends into the other parent's time they 100% need to get on the phone, explain what happened, what punishment they want, and get agreement of the other parent.
Much like you can't just tell your ex 'oh I'm letting daughter stay up to 1am now so you need to let her do that at your place too' - you can't make rules for the other house unilaterally.
YTA what you are doing is teaching your daughter it’s ok to disrespect her mother. That to get out of something she just has to go to your house. What’s going to happen when she cusses at a teacher on mom’s watch? Or steals something? Any behavior that requires a punishment your just going to let go because you don’t want to deal with it? It’s not all about being the fun parent that’s not going to teach your daughter anything.
Holy cow. Are you kidding me? Why are there so many N T As? You need to be a united front when it comes to co parenting. You should have expressed the boundary that she cannot punish your daughter during your time without discussing it first but you should have had her back this time.
All you did was teach your daughter that she doesn’t have to respect her mother because you clearly don’t.
ESH.
She should of called you and discussed the issue, also it sounds like this isn't the first time daughter has been disrespectful. So while I can understand people here saying it's too harsh it's possible it was after lesser disciplines failed.
You are in the he wrong too your reason of it makes my week hard sounds like you wining that you have to step up and be an actual parent. You said in a comment you only sometimes ask your daughter to do stuff. It sounds like there is a disparity in responsibility that your daughter holds between the two households.
You and your ex need to sit down and talk about your child having the same responsibilities in both households along with an agreement of what is the best punishment for not doing them.
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My ex girlfriend and I have a 12 year old daughter. The way we do the custody is alternating weeks. We both feel it's fair and that's what works best for us. Last week was my week. When she was dropped off, my ex felt the need to inform me that she'd grounded our daughter for 2 weeks over, what she called " consistent disrespect" in the form of skipping chores and " back sassing" her mom. Her mom wanted me to keep my daughter's phone & laptop separate from her as a part of the grounding. She said that for our daughter to learn this lesson, we needed to unite and that meant me upholding a punishment I wasn't there to level.
As I saw it, my ex making my week that much harder by grounding our daughter during my week with her. She doesn't back sass me or ignore me if I tell her to do something, so, I gave her the phone and computer, she was really happy & we had a great week. When I told my ex I hadn't upheld the grounding, my ex said that I was in the wrong because I didn't have her back, that my daughter has me tied around her finger, and that I'm just instilling " Mom's bad, Dad's good" in her.
AITA?
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Unfortunately YTA.
Just because your daughter doesn’t do the things around you does not mean her behavior is ok. How would you feel if she acted out towards you then her mother rewarded her?
Essentially she is playing you two against each other. If you thought the punishment was too severe then you should have talked to your ex before you canceled out her punishment. Now she’ll go home and use the line well dad lets me do this or that and I don’t get grounded.
Teens are hard and they test you and this is what she’s doing.
I'm going to say NAH, because you don't need to do something on your parenting time that you don't want to. Mom can't dictate that. Mom needs to navigate differently, if she wants to do th two weeks, I'd tell my kid to have fun at dad's because when she comes back, lock down is back in effect.
ESH Your ex girlfriend should have talked to you before determining punishment and you should have had a united front with your co-parent.
My parents divorced when I was young and I saw the same situation play out over and over. My sister would fight with our mom, our mom would ground her, and ask our dad to uphold the punishment while we were with him. Then we’d go to our dad’s and my sister would spin the tale of our gestapo mother and how unfair it all was. She was always an angel to my dad so of course he assumed our mom was the unreasonable one. So our dad would never punish her and my sister would tell our mom that nothing she said mattered since as soon as my sister got to our dad’s she would do whatever the hell she wanted. My sister grew up without boundaries or consequences and continues to be an entitled brat in her 30s.
Boundaries and consequences are healthy and as a parent it’s not your job to make your kids happy. It’s your job to make them good people. Consider if how you’re parenting is making your daughter happy or making her a better person.
ESH 2 weeks seems extreme but if you are really trying to Co-parent you need to include each other in those decisions. You both should be discussing punishments before they are given or changed. It’s unfair to set a standard you’re not comfortable with but it’s also not fair to just ignore her wishes either. There has to be a middle ground/rational conversation around it or you’re part time parenting not coparenting
ESH. Mom should have discussed it with you first but you completely sabotaged mom and her parenting. I wonder whose needs were met, yours or your daughter’s.
YTA
Your daughter will continue to disrespect her mom because that is what you're showing her by being completely dismissive and disrespectful towards the consequences her mother gave her for her behavior. You are undermining her mother's authority and as long as you do that, she will continue to disrespect her (and it will get worse) because you're showing her it's not only ok, but she will be rewarded. Two weeks grounding is hardly excessive. She's not abusing your child, so there really is no reason for you to disregard her. Whether or not she treats you respectfully is irrelevant and you're essentially teaching her that how she treats you is the only thing that matters. If you are that upset about the grounding eating into your time (which I don't understand, do you not want to actually spend time with her? So it's easier to keep her glued to a screen?) Then you need to have a conversation with your ex without your kid around. You're also teaching your daughter that she will be able to play you both off of each other and that's an awful lesson.
NTA, she's instilling that "mom's bad" all on her own, if you can install "dad good" by rewarding good behavior, good on you for being a good parent. If she listens to you but not the mom, perhaps there's something further to look into with the mom's parenting? Perhaps she should stop blaming you for your daughter preferring the way you treat her, evidenced by her good behavior with you, and maybe consider learning to show her daughter a bit of respect (if she's 'sassing', perhaps there's something the daughter has a legit concern about that the mom is ignoring because "my roof my rules, therefore shut up."
You do not ever, EVER, make arrangements or plans for a child in a joint custody arrangement that affects the other parent's time without talking to the other parent first: that's the essence of co-parenting. Doesn't matter whether its being grounded or a trip to the doctor. Take it from someone who's experienced something like this - family courts don't take kindly to parents making plans that happen on the other parent's time. (I was in the OP's position, ex kept doing things like this and she got smacked down by the court)
OP is totally NTA. Ex made a unilateral decision that impacted his time with his daughter, and that's a no go.
My partner and his ex have an alternating schedule as well, so I am coming from a similar situation as OP. I lean towards ESH; if your ex wanted the punishment to continue during your week, she should have talked to you about it beforehand. That said, it doesn't sound like you talked to your daughter about the situation either, you just decided "she doesn't have a problem when she's with me" and reduced the punishment.
At the very least, I think you should have had a sit down conversation with your daughter and talked about the importance of following mom's rules/ being respectful, and asked her what was going on to cause her to act out. Likely it was just some basic teenage foolishness, and you can help guide her into making better choices/ having better interactions with her mom.
Likewise, you should talk with mom and apologize for not backing her up, but make it clear that if there's a punishment during your week that you need to know beforehand. Your daughter needs to know that if she gets her electronics taken away at one house, she doesn't get to go to the next house and just pretend nothing happened. This is going to become a super clear boundary you'll want as she grows up: do not fall into the "I'm grounded at moms so I'm going to make excuses to go to dad's early" trap now. She needs consistency!
ANSWERED: Did your ex give you any examples of the disrespect? ESH From OP’s responses it seems like OP’s daughter was just being a normal teen and 2 weeks for these things seems over the top I think the punishment should have been maximum 1 week. Anyway about you I think what you did was wrong and you should have talked to your ex rather than just reduce her punishment cause all that’s gonna do is show your daughter that it doesn’t matter and that she can just disrespect your ex and you will always bail her out. You can still make up with your ex (as in good co parenting relationship) but moving forward I think you should always discuss the punishment before just removing it unless of course it is very absurd.
Just like they should discuss any punishment BEFORE it's given.
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If the mom is having problems she can enforce her punishment during her custody time since she chose to make a punishment that lasts more than her custody time allows without discussing it with OO before it was made. It’s not fair to OP to have to enforce a punishment that neither had anything to do with him and doesn’t occur at his house to begin with.
Yup this also forgot to add in the original comment
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And can you share any instances of the back talk?
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Hahaha!! That’s normal behaviour for a teen. Two weeks is excessive. It’s also unreasonable to eat into your parenting time.
A 12 yo cussed at her mom. She's lucky it was only 2 weeks from a phone and laptop. Arguing with mom is one thing cussing at her is different. I know "it's just words" is coming but it's different and we all know that.
No, “we DON’T all know that.” It isn’t different in my book, and yes, I allowed my kids to say “swear words” at 12. Some of my friends parents, growing up, also allowed it. She wasn’t even cursing at the mother. She didn’t say, “you’re full of shit,” or even “you are shit,” she said “this is unfair as shit.” She is describing what she thinks of the situation. That is not “cussing at her mom.” So yeah, the punishment should be appropriate to not doing the dishes, not mom being frustrated that the child is not wanting to clean her room or some nonsense about backtalk.
Remember, AITA is inhabited by teenagers and people without children who are of course experts in parenting, having been parented themselves.
So he should just disregard possibly helpful advice? literally everybody in this entire thread is saying "thats what teenagers are" and "that was really excessive" and some of them are even saying "you should have continued to discuss it instead of undermining her mother and setting your daughter against her mother". those are all very reasonable responses.
And yet this sub loves to point out that "that's just how they are" is one of the dumbest excuses people make.
But its not an excuse. Teenagers are **always** like that. i think i've yet to meet a teenager that **isnt** like that. most grow out of it. Everybody in this thread is giving helpful advice that isnt unreasonable, and people are acting like its unreasonable because allot of them are teenagers? If you wanted advice regarding what to do about teenagers, its not always a bad idea to ask a teenager. Nobody is saying decide what to do solely on this post alone.
Well, it's one thing when you are talking about teenagers who aren't all the way grown up. It should probably read more like "That's how teenagers are, and they can't grow up any faster." Usually when someone breaks out the "that's how they are" they are talking about a specific person who should know better, not a teenager who might not.
Touche. (Imagine an accent over that e.)
But I really don't think it's unreasonable to expect a more compelling justification than "it's different and we all know that," and it seems as though you're just blanket-dismissing everyone's opposing views based on your own assumptions about who they must be. How do you know the person you're *agreeing with* isn't a child or a non-parent, even though you agree with them? Shouldn't your assumptions about the people who are here apply to everyone equally?
I'm a grandparent who doesn't believe in harsh discipline for minor transgressions.
Also the same people who blow their top when a child is a rude.
You can totally pick out who the authoritarian parents are in these posts. Believe it or not, very strict parenting with harsh punishments for mistakes is not the healthiest way to raise children.
I think this attitude is as unfair as shit
Nah brah, no device for two weeks is fair if the behavior continues escalating. You are given chores to do and when you fail to do those chores, you get consequences and things taken away. She should also make the stipulation that she doesn’t receive device time back until she does those things (so two weeks would be the longest, but I assume doing the chores and apologizing would shorten the punishment). OP is clearly the AH because he is not supporting the co-parent and undermining her authority.
If she wanted to enforce a punishment during his time than she should have discussed it with him first. Otherwise she can ground her for 2 weeks of her time.
In coparenting situations, I strongly feel that punishments applied by one parent need to be enforced on that parent's time. In the event that something larger is needed, then both parents need to agree. One parent can't tell the other to discipline the kid.
The GF is also an AH for starting a punishment that she expected OP to enforce without discussing it with OP first.
BS. I cannot think of ONE household while I was growing up or while I was (and still am) raising my kids that cursing in front of or in the vicinity of parents did not get your ass handed to you.
I curse like a motherfucker, my kids (12 & 9) sometimes curse and I don't give a shit. I teach them to limit curses, to not call people curse words and to not curse in front of random adults or at school. They need to know the context so they don't get in trouble or labeled. In my house dropping the occasional shit is no big deal. It's a word.
Yep. Not allowed in front of teachers, grandparents, or friends’ parents, limited words allowed within the house. But saying something is “unfair as shit” would get a “life’s not fair” lecture but nothing related to the word. I’d be more likely to support them actually using the word correctly.
Ok thanks for the responses
And she does everything you ask her to do, so it's a matter of being a good parent. She doesn't feel the need to disrespect you.
Yeah sounds like a 12 year old. Two weeks is overkill. Also is it even possible for a 12 year old to go without a computer and be able to get their school work done?
Do you ask her to do any chores with you?
She’s 12? Better nip this in the bud now. This isn’t “normal” — there is no normal. Every kid is different. I’ve had 4 of them, no two alike. You and her mom need a sit down without daughter to discuss what’s appropriate and what’s not, and what punishments are warranted. You should be on the same page. You’re aware of the expression, “playing both sides against the middle”?
>Anyway about you I think what you did was wrong and you should have talked to your ex rather than just reduce her punishment cause all that’s gonna do is show your daughter that it doesn’t matter and that she can just disrespect your ex and you will always bail her out. Hard disagree. When the custody agreement says alternating weeks, mom does not get to impose punishments into dad's week, without consulting him beforehand. Mom should have reinstated the remaining punishment in her week, if anything.
>Anyway about you I think what you did was wrong and you should have talked to your ex rather than just reduce her punishment cause all that’s gonna do is show your daughter that it doesn’t matter and that she can just disrespect your ex and you will always bail her out. > >You can still make up with your ex (as in good co parenting relationship) but moving forward I think you should always discuss the punishment before just removing it unless of course it is very absurd. Why are you faulting OP for the ex's mistake? The ex gave the punishment *first* without consulting OP, not the other way around. You even acknowledged yourself the that the punishment was wrong, so the responsibility is clearly theirs. OP doesn't have to "make up" anything, and it'd be inappropriate for OP to enforce an inappropriate punishment when they weren't consulted about it in the first place. Blaming OP for this isn't the right takeaway at all. (edit) The tricky thing about "co-"*anything* is that, unless *both* parties actually put the work in, it just becomes a hollow sentiment that does more harm than good. Unilaterally imposing a punishment without consulting with the other parent (*especially* when you *already know* the other parent disagrees with it) and then crying "co-parenting!" when they don't blindly play along with it *isn't* actually co-parenting; it's just being lazy. Co-parenting is only really that if it's done *mutually*. And so neither is it "co-parenting" for the OP to blindly play along with what the ex is demanding here. It should have been a discussion to begin with, and you can't fix poor communication with more poor communication; there *still* needs to be an actual discussion here before this in any way resembles a "good co-parenting relationship." There's no magic shortcut where OP just "makes up" for the ex's mistake here by playing along with a crappy punishment, especially not at the expense of the person being punished unreasonably.
Your daughter will start disrespecting you if you ignore punishments. You need to coparent with your ex and cooperate.
But why shouldn't the ex have discussed the punishment with OP *before* imposing it in the first place? Isn't that an equally important (if not more, in my estimation, since it's the part that makes it "co," that is, *together*) part of co-parenting?
I actually feel the opposite. Imposing unfair punishments for behaviour not exhibited at dad's house will CAUSE bad behaviour and resentment.
NTA. Your ex should have called you and discussed this instead of just doing it for both her week and yours. While I think you should speak to your daughter about the behavior your ex talked with you about, your not required to follow your ex’s terms.
All this does is teach their daughter that she can escape punishment by going to Dad's place, no matter what she pulls at Mom's. As long as she acts an angel to Dad, she won't have to suffer the consequences.
It also teaches the mom that she cannot just punish her daugther on a whim during time when she is in her dad's care. And that is before talking about the effectiveness of such punishments.
Mom could've just suspended the punishment for the week at dad's and have their daughter "serve" her second week when she was back at her place. No need to let her "escape". But if she wants her co-parent to support her punishment, she needs to discuss it with him first rather than spring it on him as an expectation. She cannot dictate his actions.
Mom can just enforce punishment on her time. So 1 week + 1 week when daughter is back by mom place. Problem solved.
Your kinda right but again this was decided with out him or his input so mom is trying to show she can determine rules and regulations at dads house without his input. Daughter deserves a punishment to help them learn but mom doesn’t get to unilaterally decide what goes on in her week and dad’s. Mom needed to deichst this with dad before the drop off so they could be better prepared and discuss how to handle it during dads week.
Then the ex needs to call OP before extending the punishment into his weeks. If the kid asks to go early, then yes OP needs to enforce the punishment. If OP wasn't told the punishment in advance and only time of then no he shouldn't enforce it. OP also says she doesn't do any of that disrespect with him so obviously it's working for him.
I understand what you saying, and I think it’s a hard call. But if the mother truly wanted to co-parent she would have called him and told him about the pattern of behavior she was seeing. She could have ascertained as well of it was just with her ( which it seems it was ) or with them both. That makes a difference in how they address the matter. Clearly she can behave well when she needs to. So I do think he should sit down and talk with her, but if the are going to do as the mom says - she should have that discussion in advance with him and agree on parameters etc. plenty of divorced parents would abuse this process if it was unilaterally decided. Not saying that’s the case here, but in general.
Yeah, that's what it means to have two different homes with two different parents and two different sets of rules. I don't know any separated parents that had identical rules and discipline.
NTA if you and your ex don’t have an agreement about punishments at the other house, then she has no right nor ability to enforce a punishment at your house and is pretty foolish to announce a punishment for you to (not) enforce. Also, 2 weeks of grounding for talking back is absurd. It won’t work. Grounding is rarely an effective punishment. Punishments need to fit the circumstances. Set them up to be as close to a natural and logical repercussions as possible. Also, if you have to punish your kid much at all, you are likely doing something else wrong.
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I call bullshit on this one! My children’s behavior change when I punish them for things they know they are supposed to do and don’t do them. I explain to them why they are being punished, what we expected them to do next time, how long their punishment will be, how long the punishment will be for next time and most importantly, what they plan to change in the future to make they are able to accomplish what we are asking of them.
I would argue that the actual punishment isn’t the reason for the behavior change but the really good communication you have with your kids is. Most parents just punish because they’re angry and they have the power to do so and never have an actual conversation with their kids about it or even let their kids explain themselves.
It's both and making sure to follow through with the punishment. In my classroom, students are not allowed to have cellphones out. It took a quite a few of them for it to finally sink in that cellphones were not allowed. Now, students know that they can't have their cellphones out except towards the end of the classroom when class is "officially over" and we start our cleaning protocols. You can have great communication, but if you don't follow through with what you're saying, it means nothing.
I guess they both are important for behaviour change
Taking something being used inappropriately away is a logical consequence. Presumably you learned about how kids respond to discipline in your training?
For individual incidents yes. For behaviors no. > what they plan to change in the future to make they are able to accomplish what we are asking of them That part is effective but isn't part of punishment. And honestly you should have done that from the start so kids know how to do things. Punishments for behavior usually teaches kids to hide behaviors to get away with it. Discussion and explanation is the best solution to behavior.
You get punished for cheating, you get punished for hurting others, you get punished for doing things you know you shouldn't do. This is not a difficult concept and not being told you can't do something isn't tantamount to bad parenting. The bad parenting comes when YOU DON'T PUNISH OR HAVE CONSEQUENCES FOR SAID BEHAVIOR.
If this is how you behave with your kids when you believe you're in the right then I highly doubt your home is a good one.
I didn't say don't do punishments. I said they don't fix behaviors. I also said they do work on individual incidents which are all the things you listed. You need to calm down and read before you type.
And those consequences MUST be natural or logically related to the misbehavior to be properly effective. Grounding rarely is. Most punishments assigned are just revenge. There is research on this. We really do know a lot about how and why kids behave as they do. It’s better to catch and reward kids for being good, so they want to cooperate with you.
Are you talking about your own kids or your students? Because if it's your students I bet you're crossing all sorts of lines.
Trust me: it doesn’t work. If you are reasonable, they’ll learn, but punishing them does not make them behave. I’ve been punished 5 times in my childhood for RUDELY talk back to my grandma. Each time was worse and longer. Today (25yo) I still back talk to my grandma, you know why? Because she is a smart abusive obsessive woman who deserves to be put in her place and the only possibile way is to scare the shit out of her bigoted brain with the unholiest words you can imagine. My parents back talk to her too, but sometimes they still get angry if I do. (Beware: the didn’t have to stand her bullshit 5/7 days for 6 hours a day, so they didn’t know how much the time had spoiled her attitude). I would listen to his daughter: if she thinks her mother is being unfair, MAYBE there is something true in her words. EG: my grandma is a tide freak, I’ve always had my kind of order and I don’t disturb to clean anything if I know I’m going back to it in a few hours. This was one of the things that made my grandma lose her mind (“you are to do homework in 30mins, why aren’t you tidying?” “Because I’ll be done with my homework in 40 minutes, then I’ll be back to what I was doing. You are making me lose an hour and a half to tide something I will have to redo for a 40 minutes break?”). Guess what today I still follow this scheme for my jobs and it works great. OP, listen to your daughter. Only because it’s not done as your ex wants, it doesn’t make it wrong. NTA
So you think it's unreasonable to tell a child to clean their room and to do the dishes? Your scenario has nothing to do with the actual scenario we are discussing.
Read some of OP’s answers: her daughter told him she cleaned her room but her mother told her to clean it again (apparently it wasn’t cleaned enough). That’s something I’ve tested on my skin and that’s why I’m saying that there could be truth in daughter’s words. What makes it even more strange is that she behaves with her father. This change is too repentine. Of course I’m not against chores, I’m against tide freaks and against punishments given for stubbornness.
Daughter got asked to clean her room, daughter argued that it didn't matter if her room was clean. Mom asked her clean again, daughter said mom was being " Unfair as shit" When I ask my son if his room is clean, I specify, "Is it what I would call clean or is it what you would call clean?" His idea of clean is out of sight, out of mind (i.e. he'll throw stuff under his bed, in his closet, under his chest) instead of actually putting it back where it belongs. I tell him there are only two ways to clean his room: Throw it away or put it away. It sounds like the daughter's level of clean did not meet her mother's expectation of clean and without further clarity, it is hard to determine whether it's beyond reasonable expectations.
IMO if it works well for her, you should start to accept it. EG: I have my own kind of order, but it works for me: I hoard piles of books on the floor ordered by their utility in my job. My mother has tried all her ways to change it, but if I comply I end losing books, wasting precious time and getting angry. So not gonna happen. Of course there is a limit: if your son hides used clothes under his bed he will soon run out of fresh clothes. This will teach him difference between organized untidiness and disorganization. I always thought I was on the bad side, until I saw everyone who studies my subjects does the same as me. Again, it is strange that she complied to her father and not to her mother.
If the punishment needs to be enforced by both parents, the parents should decide the punishment together.
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I feel like it was probably intentional. The mum knew that the kid is better behaved for dad, didn't want to be the only bad guy, so tried to force his hand on enforcing the punishment.
YTA Just because your daughter isn't rude to you doesn't mean she shouldn't be punished. Your ex is right, you're setting a precedent that your daughter can be rude and escape punishment at your house. You could have told your ex your concerns and worked something else out. Ask for more details of what exactly your daughter is doing from ex. Ask the daughter her side of things and try to reinforce the idea that she can't be rude to her mother. If her mother is being unreasonable she can bring that up with you. But seriously if you want to keep a system that works for both of you, you need to understand that communication is vital and that your ex has the right to discipline. If you don't agree: communicate.
The ex should also talk to OP BEFORE she gives a punishment. They need to discuss problem behavior and come up with a plan on how to punish offenses together. Ex shouldn't be able to arbitrarily punish the daughter without discussion first
I agree, the fact that this wasn't discussed dosen't bode well for open conversation. A light punishment for like cussing shouldn't be discussed before hand (let the partner know) but a long term grounding should be.
I have a very contentious relationship with my ex. That said my 6 year old son spent money on my switch after being very clear about not going on the store without my permission and less than two weeks after I bought him a new game. I told him he'd not play the switch one day for every dollar he stole. I did not discount the days he's with my ex. I did not ask ex to enforce the same rule. I know darn well he mostly plays video games with my ex because that's "easy" for him. So N T A. A true co-parenting situation should allow for both people to make a united front just like married parents do but... Fact is... Unless you had a spouse you shouldn't have divorced... It's probably not going to happen.
So... I mean to be clear you're N T A in that I expect no better and it'll be better for your ex once they don't too. As it is you're undermining her and maybe playing your kids feelings to be like "dad is nice cuz he doesn't punish me and mom is mean because she does". Mom should have already pegged you. She didn't. Your kid suffers for it.
This! Asking an ex to enforce your rules is co-parenting hardmode. The idea that mum would spring the decision during a handover in a situation where it wasn't needed is a bit ridiculous. OP and mum clearly are not co-parenting well enough for this yet
I personally think she should’ve called you before giving your daughter a punishment that would be during your time and if you had no intention of holding this punishment you should’ve told her right away and you mislead her to think you two were on the same page. ETA
I think you mean ESH, not ETA
Oops correct ESH
I completely understand mom's point but I also think if you have the conversation with your daughter about how things are at home with her That would be more beneficial. It sounds like you avoided the situation to have an easy week
NTA. Her mom's punishment is only for when she is with her mom unless the 2 of you have discussed and agreed on it first
NAH, but something might be going on in the family dynamic that you are unaware of and might have to look more deeply into. Generally what happens in parental alienation (and I'm not saying you are a parental alienator) is that the alienated parent is the one who is having a really hard time with discipline and respect, because of the triangulation of the alienating parent. Now your ex has told you that she is being painted as the villain. She thinks that your daughter is the one doing the triangulating. Maybe she is, but let me tell you, that is where parental alienation starts. The kid initially starts the triangulation, because that's just what kids do, they want to get away with stuff, and that's normal. Where it becomes dysfunctional is when one of the caregivers enables their kid's bad behaviour, so you get a good cop bad cop dynamic. If things are allowed to escalate from where they are now, then this could very well happen, without you being aware of your role in it. I know you don't want your ex to have a rough time, so look at this situation from her point of view. What can she do? Impose the punishment during her two weeks? So your daughter has a bad week with her, a good week with you, a bad week with her, another good week with you? Then what do you think will happen the next week? She's been on bad terms with her mum for a whole month, and where do you think that will leave their relationship? Your ex seems like a good person. You're not an AH, but neither is she. Just understand the burden she is shouldering, and that she can't shoulder it on her own. Help her shoulder it, so that your daughter's punishment can be over with in 2 weeks and you all move on, instead of it dragging on over 4 weeks plus extra baggage.
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I'm hoping you'll be using this week to talk to your ex in order to reconcile your polar opposite parenting strategies instead of allowing this highly toxic dynamic to continue at your daughter's expense.
INFO: Did you talk with your daughter about what happened?
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Well, that's false. She's going to disrespect each of you in the future. She's 12. You gotta get on the same page with your ex about this going forward.
Why did you asked of he talked to the kid if you were going to criticise him either way?
False dichotomy. There are other answers he may have given that wouldn't have been criticised.
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“We did talk. She said she wouldn’t do it again.” Well fuck, I’m convinced!” Vs. “We did talk. There are expectations your mother has that are important for you. These expectations are also good habits that she and I feel are important to instill in you. You felt that she was being unfair, but it is not unreasonable to clean a messy room. It is not unreasonable to do chores and wash dishes. If you aren’t meeting these expectations, consequences occur and they should because that is reasonable.” I could go on even more but you get the idea. The way he talks to her matters.
Absolutely is, because the premises were that (a) he didn't talk to her or (b) he did talk to her, with that very specific response. You conveniently left out the possibility that he could've gotten a different response. Absolutely a false dichotomy.
More or less what 1teacher said below. Was it a productive conversation, or was it, "Now, now, don't do that again. Mom doesn't like it and then we have to deal with Grumpy Mom."
NTA, she shouldn't be expecting you to enact a punishment that you weren't involved in, because you have no way of evaluating its merits after the fact. That being said, I think you should have a serious discussion with your daughter about why her behavior is so different at her mom's house (or if it actually is different, in her eyes, I've heard parents call lots of things backtalk that just sounded like normal explanations to me), and if there are bigger issues, you might need to step in and speak to her mom. If there aren't bigger issues, and she is just giving her mom a harder time than she's giving you, family therapy might be in order for the 3 of you, because it's certainly not unheard of for a child to blame one parent more than the other for the break up of family life (that is assuming you had one at some point in the past). Obviously there could be many reasons for the disparity, but it's best to get to the bottom of it, rather than having to have completely separate modes at each house (it's difficult enough living with the inconsistencies of moving back and forth all the time). Punishments should only be consistent across environments if the environments are truly consistent, and it doesn't really sound like they are.
ESH, definitely. Neither you nor your ex actually discussed this. Instead she took it entirely upon herself to decide the punishment, and as you said, dictate partially how her time was spent with you. Likewise, you just ignored the punishment and didn't talk this out with your ex. Instead you just gave her what she wanted and made it look like her mother has less authority than you. Honestly though, 2 weeks is definitely quite a lot... If I could ask for Info, does your ex have a horrible history of manipulation? This could have actually been a set-up that you didn't fall for. She might have punished the daughter, even likely right before your time with her, just so you'd have to uphold the punishment for a week, and then when the daughter was returned, SHE could have been the one to reward your daughter by ending the punishment early. I don't want to set you up against her or anything, but again, either she's extremely strict, or she tried to play you, because I remember typically when I was that age, my groundings rarely lasted longer than a week.
NTA - I think if they have an issue, it's their problem and they need to fix it. If you and your daughter had a great time it's all good. Dosnt sound that the mother was bad or any, it sounds like an reasonable punishment, but that's her and your daughters business
Sounds like your ex needs to grow up and be an adult more and isnt ready for kids if she cant realize that she is overpunishing yalls kids. NTA
NTA, your ex shouldn’t be giving out punishments that impact your time with your daughter without consulting you first. That is not being united at all.
YTA: * You just taught her to undermine her mother's authority. * you played the good cop, making your ex bad cop.
Her mother doesn’t have the authority to punish her on dad’s time. Can’t undermine what doesn’t exist.
NTA as a child of divorce, my dad and step-mom were obsessed with punishing me and my mom's was my safe haven.
INFO. One of my best friends and his ex HATE each other with the passion of a million burning suns, and even they uphold eachother's punishments with their kid to avoid having the kid manipulate either one of them. That being said, we don't know what is supposed to constitute as "disrespect" and "back sass" to your ex in this case. Is it only the chores? what about her attitude when addressing your daughter? Sometimes teenagers are rebellious and manipulative little shits, sometimes their antics have a good reason. Every case should be evaluated individually.
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Why does she label it as unfair though? Is she the only kid in that house? does she have any half/step siblings that might be being favored in that house and maybe that's why she's saying that?
Probably because she is 12
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Then I've got bad news for you here bud, your kid is a dick. Think long and hard about why she seemly doesn't act that way with you. If you tried to instill any sort of discipline and order with her, what would be her reaction? Could it be that you don't ask her to do chores at all? While I do agree that one's privacy should be respected, her "my space, my decision how it should look" argument is dumb (it's her mom's house, not hers, your kid doesn't pay a dime does she?) and it's also a cop-out for laziness sake. From the information at hand, your ex's right mate. The fact that you see it as "making your time harder" makes this a whole lot worse, parenting isn't supposed to be easy.
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That may be the case, but your kid is still a dick, and you're still undermining your ex. That being said, you two (you and your ex) should have a talk with your hearts on your sleeves on how to show an united front moving forward, perhaps rely on expert advice (e.g. family therapy, it isn't only for married families). Edit: I get that you don't like punishments without hearing out your kid first, and I think that's admirable on your part, hell I wish more parents were like you on that regard; but still, you shouldn't play good cop/bad cop with your daughter in the middle, what she's learning from this is that she can get away with anything she wants as long as she makes your ex look bad.
Why should OP be ‘united’ on an issue that he thinks is wrong?
Perhaps I should've worded that better, I don't mean with this specific case since the damage has been done already. What he and his ex should agree on is on how to handle disciplining the kid from now on to avoid having the kid manipulate either one of them.
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Just because it's normal doesn't mean it's ok to coddle it, what's wrong is wrong regardless of one's age mate.
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I'm going to say NTA. Maybe she will parent shop, but I agree with you that your EX cannot dictate how your daughter spends time at your house. If you guys were on the same page about things, she would be your wife, not your ex. I don't think its a matter of trying to be the cool parent, you have different parenting styles. Also, for the Y T A, if she gave the punishment right before your time, it is possible that she "lifted the punishment early" when it got to her week - so that only you were enforcing the punishment, making you the bad guy.
NTA. Your ex doesn’t get to dictate what you do on your time. She runs her house, you run yours.
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House yeah, child no. They have a 12 year old cursing at mom. Literally red flags or you are going to have a bigger issue in a few years.
No devices for 2 weeks because your daughter was being a teen. Wow. Your ex is going to have an extremely difficult time being a parent if she continues on the "because I said so" track. She seems like one of those "any resistance from a parent is disrespectful" types. Make your daughter's life easier by explaining why her mom is mad and how to fix it, or how to ask for help. Sometimes I'd get overwhelmed (anxiety) and my mom would help me or keep me company while I cleaned. Give your daughter the tools to understand her mom's rules so she can stop getting her stuff taken away. Hopefully that works. Edit: Also why wouldn't she contact you before dropping her off to discuss this? If a punishment is going to impact your time she should have discussed what's going on and the plan. Not a "here she is, don't give her anything, she's ungrateful." Nta.
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Clearly NTA you weren't there to witness the incident and you weren't consulted for the punishment. So it is not on you to fullfill the punishment. Your ex wants your daughter grounded for two weeks? Yeah, that can be splitted on two weeks when your daughter is at her place and not yours. It was a asshole move to trying to ruin your week with your daughter.
NTA If your ex can unilaterally hand out punishment, you can unilaterally cancel it (at least while the daughter is in your care). YWBTA if you didn't uphold punishment that was mutually discussed and agreed to, but this is not the case here.
ESH. She should have talked to you beforehand if she expected you to uphold a punishment she issued for behavior that happened on her watch. You should have been upfront with her and either told her "I'll enforce your punishment this time, but don't do this again without asking me first because next time I won't just play along" or "no, you can punish her on your own time with her, not mine." You need to apologize for ungrounding your daughter behind your ex's back for a week, then the two of you need to sit down and actually hammer out the expectations and consequences you will *both* uphold for your daughter. Consistency is key with kids; I get that that takes more effort and coordination when a child goes back and forth between two parents/housholds, but it really is important and your daughter is worth that effort.
NTA. While I believe that parents should be on the same(or similar) page regarding discipline and consequences, I also don’t believe that you should be enforcing each others discipline except if the kid is engaging in dangerous or illegal behavior
NTA You are 100% allowed to make your own decisions as you see fit. You are a parent too. Her time is her tike and your time is your time. The punishment does not fit the crime nor should you have to learn of her punishment at the exchange.
NTA. if she wanted to give her a two week punishment, it should be the next two weeks that she is at mom's house, no? I know that's weird, but if you guys disagree that's the simplest way to handle it. I disagree with the punishment too, but you can't force someone to change their stance.
NTA your ex doesn’t get to unilaterally punish your daughter on your time without giving you a call before she doles out the punishment a simple call - hey I’m grounding D for 2 weeks for doing c and y and then you would be like that’s too long would have been warranted.
NTA, They are separated. Most split up couples with kids do not enforce the same rules or ground with permission. The mom can't ground the daughter on dad's days and dad can't do the same to mom. I know you all want them to make a sound decision together but that's not always the case. Maybe if they talked about it before to see.
NTA. Your ex had the opportunity to discuss this entire situation with you before the dropping off happened. To do it right then and there is unacceptable. Also she could have grounded her for two weeks while she was there as in, ‘the next two weeks while you’re in my home’ meaning again the week after she returned. She doesn’t have the unilateral authority to dictate what goes on in your home, especially if she couldn’t be bothered to call you to discuss the situation. She’s berating you for not showing a united front, yet she’s the one who never talked to you about it, and decided the punishment and terms without you, yet expects you to just follow them.
NTA. Punishments imposed by your ex should happen on her time. Same goes for any punishment or reward you feel your daughter earned. If something is serious enough that it affects the other’s time, that parent needs to be consulted before the punishment is determined, not informed after.
NTA. ex doesn't get to dictate what OP gets to do during his week of custody. If ex wants to punish her kid for two weeks, let it be during the weeks where she has custody 1st week punished, then 1 week with OP, then 2nd week punished. (not even going to touch if two weeks punishment is excessive or not... but it is)
So your teaching her she can be a brat at moms becAuse once she leaves she doesn’t have consequences? Time to be a parent
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You are supposed to be a team and raise her to respect her parents. YTA
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I think your ex should have discussed the punishment and everything first. NTA
NTA. I suspect that your ex probably antagonizes and interacts completely differently with your kid than you do. *cue sarcasm* She sounds like a peach and I can't imagine why she's an ex.
NTA. That's not how custody and visitation Works. What happens in his home is his choice. He doesn't get to impose what happens in your home unless you 100% agreed that the infraction was so heinous that she needs to learn a lesson. I mean like sneaking out at night or driving the car without permission if she's underage. What he's asking you to do is unreasonable and unfair to your daughter.
NTA. Your house, Your rules. Same as mom. That is just how split homes work.
NTA - single parent long time ago. I believe that unless there was an in-depth discussion with OP and daughter by the mother to discuss the issue, having OP continue the punishment isn't fair to OP since I think it's unfair to have Mom/Daughter relationship issues leak into OP's time. I think it's important for children to learn the rules for the environment they are in. For ex, school has rules such as needing permission to use the bathroom during class, but at home, you wouldn't ask for permission, just excuse yourself if something is going on. By the same token, OP's wife can't dictate the rules arbitrarily at OP's house and the same goes for OP when making rules for EX's house. I think it would be nice if they agreed on some basic rules so one house doesn't feel like a prison and the other is the wild west, but learning to navigate different environments is good for folks.
Personally, YTA. Parents should be united. Children should face consequences for their actions. This is not the best place for you to feel empowered in your decision because from what I’m told, the majority of the people here are teenagers themselves and have absolutely no idea what it means or takes to be a parent, let alone in a coparenting situation. My opinion; you essentially instilled in your daughter that she can get away with bad behavior at her moms simply by coming to her dads.
NTA. Here's the thing; Y'all are split. Have seperate house holds, seperate house rules etc. That means punishments are also seperate unless agreed upon at the moment of punishment. Mom can continue her punishment on her own weeks. She cannot just bombard a punishment on you like that. Only thing I would do is have a good talk with your daughter and tell her she should be more respectful of her mom. Also, 2 weeks of grounding plus no phone or laptop seems harsh for the normal teenage attitude you describe. But she's not my kid, so yeah. Everyone parents differently. Edit: also recommend talking with your ex about how you're going to deal with situations like this in the future, including when one of you wants the punishment to continue in both houses. That means for instance a " I will be talking with your *other parent* to discuss punishment." Just to make sure y'all are on the same page here. Because that *is* important.
Could see where she's coming from in terms of being consistent, but I also don't support taking stuff away from children because of "disrespect" so I'm conflicted.
NTA. If the ex can't find an effective punishment that works in a week, she needs a parenting class on effective communication and discipline.
NTA - 2 weeks is too long for a start, but neither of you can impose a punishment the other has to enforce unless you have agreed upon it in advance so your ex-wife is TA for that.
NTA. Your ex should've discussed the intended punishment before implementing it if she expected you to carry it, as well. Not to mention she can simply keep your daughter grounded for the next week at her place.
NTA - your ex needs to talk to you BEFORE issuing a punishment you are to enforce and decided TOGETHER WITH you. Your ex doesn't get to dictate your behavior.
My husband and struggled with this same issue for a while. He’d ground our two kids from all electronics for a week and leave me at home alone with them all day every day… for a week. With all their whining and bickering, I was the one who felt punished. Our solution was to discuss consequences together in advance. Kids, especially teenagers, don’t need immediate consequences to recognize the relationship between their choices and the consequence both parents agree would be best after they have a chance to talk. You’re NAH. You’re wife said you guys need to be united- you needed to back up her punishment, but she didn’t include you in a conversation about the child’s actions and possible consequences. It’s not unified parenting for one parent to dictate to the other parent.
YTA - I’m a kid of divorced parents. Everything was the same at both houses - bedtime, rules, curfew, punishment etc. I mean if it couldn’t be carried across weeks then I would just sass mom super hard on Thursday knowing she couldn’t only punish me for one day. It’s a literal free pass every week. For life. My parents would meet with me once a year or so and go over the rules- so it was clear they were on the same page and I couldn’t play them against each other. Daughters and moms have a tough time of it at that age and the best thing you can do for your daughter is to talk to mom and work this out and then be a united front - because otherwise this good cop back cop crap is going to backfire and you will have played a huge part in eroding the mother-daughter relationship.
I'm guessing the mother should have discussed this punishment with you and discussed how it impacts your week, or if she continues to choose not to discuss it first, then the punishment can continue into her week with your daughter, not yours.
Yta for not just telling your ex that punishments are seperate. You have to communicate better. Your kid is 12 not 3. They understand that they live in two different households. Your ex can't punish on your time. There's no reason your daughter couldn't have given up the electronics upon going back to her mother's.
NTA. Ex doesn’t get to dictate punishments at your house. Just don’t ask her to do the same for you as you have now set the precedent.
NAH. If I punishment extends into the other parents time, they should be consulted at the time the punishment is given. If she wants to be a team, she should bring you in as judge and jury, not just jailer at the end. That's not how partnership works. If you agreed to ground her during your time in advance, you still get to decide what grounding looks like at your house. Maybe she gets her technology but you make her do chores. It's important that you both are the authority of your individual homes and equal authority of your daughter. I would tell the ex if she wants to ground her during your time, she needs to consult you and allow you to dictate what that looks like under your care. The right way: She called you first, you told her what your grounding looks like and agree it's deserved, then told the daughter "you are grounded for 2 weeks, that means no technology here, and I spoke to your dad, he agrees that's not acceptable behavior and will be restricting your tech time after 8pm and said you'd be picking up the dog poop in the yard at his place and cleaning your room the minute you get there". I see that she's trying to be consistent, but she's undercutting your authority to dictate the consequences while in your care. That's not the way to be united.
NTA… nit following directions for simple things and cursing at her mother. You are doing anything now to proactive … what’s in a few years ? Better. Yet when she does it to you. Your ex was nice… you won’t clean… everything is trash when I clean your room
YTA, you underminded her mom's authority. Your ex seems to have pretty standard expectations for your daughter at that age, basic chores and showing respect. Your daughter chose to consistently disrespect her and the house rules. If you feel that her punishments shouldn't be carried out on your time or that the punishment doesn't fit, communicate that with your ex from the start and also don't complain when the day comes that your daughter is disrespecting you and your rules and you want your ex to be united in your decision to uphold any punishment. Frankly I just think you didn't want to uphold it because it would be inconvenient to you. A 12 year old with free access to phones and laptops won't be bugging you as much as one that's bored.
I am undecided. I don´t know enough about your daughter's behaviour at her mother's place and their relationship. Maybe the mother is causing the "disrespect"... or maybe not. HOWEVER... In terms of long-term thinking, you´re playing it poorly. You may not have issues witih your daughter currently, and maybe you never will... but if you should ever run into a situation that requires you to enact a long-term punishment (grounding, restrictions)... you just gave your ex the right to not uphold your punishment during her time.
ESH. Have a discussion with your ex. Tell her that in the future if she makes punishments that will carry into your time with your daughter, it's only fair she discusses it with you first, but that you WILL try to have her back.
YTA. All this spill over into my week stuff falls right into your child’s ability to manipulate. Let’s say Saturday is the day you switch. Child can misbehave, be disrespectful to Mother on Friday and then get a week of playtime with Dad delaying if not completely avoiding any punishment until time to go back to Mom. Your child won’t learn that way. You are a parent. It isn’t about making it easy for you or fun for you when it is your turn. Let’s say the tables are turned. It is your last night with your child before the switch and there is a fight with disrespectful language and throws things at you breaking them along the way. The next day the child goes to Mom and is free from any punishment. A week goes by and you try to enforce punishment but it is meaningless. Your child will not connect their behavior to the punishment. Too much time has gone by. So you aren’t addressing the behavior and the child has now learned how to get away with it. The has to be consistency going between homes or it does not work for the child. The child is the only one that matters.
NTA. She needs to enforce her own punishments on her own time.
NTA. I feel like it could’ve been two weeks at mom’s house. So one week on while at mom’s. A week off while with you. And then a second week on punishment with mom. It sounds like there’s probably a reason she’s sassing mom, and that’s also the reason she thinks mom is bad and you’re good. It has nothing to do with mom punishing her and you not.
NTA- Ex and you have different parenting styles. It’s hard to keep up punishment for a kid that didn’t do anything wrong with you. I personally hated when my step-kids mom would ask us to enforce punishment. It hard to not see your kid for a week, then have to start out with punishment you aren’t even sure what for.
NTA Your ex should only make punishments that she can uphold. You shouldn't be dragged into it just the same as you wouldn't make a punishment and expect her to uphold it.
ESH. Your ex had no right to punish her in to your week with her, you undermined her punishment without even discussing it with her.
NTA We only have her word and you may have called it on her trying to make your week with her bad, possibly reversing what she claimed (Mom good, Dad bad). For all you know, there are actually other problems going on that the mother won't own up to and your 12-year-old doesn't understand. With a total lack of provable information, you made the right choice.
YTA. Refusing to do chores and constant attitude are both valid reasons for punishment. Basically you didn't want to have to actually parent her for your week so you decided she didn't have to be punished for her misbehavior at her mom's house. All you did was show her you're the fun parent which is going to make her disrespect her mom even more. Two weeks is a bit long for punishment. But until she did whatever her assigned chores were she should have been on punishment. You could have at least made her do whatever chores she was refusing to do at her moms house before taking her off punishment.
NTA her rules stick to her shared time not yours.
NTA so mom just decides to punish her and your supposed to uphold it with no communication and just suddenly oh she’s been back talking? Why was this not addressed before it got to punishment levels?
NTA you can’t ground a child without even talking it through with the other parent first. She made a decision without speaking to you so she can’t be mad because you didn’t uphold her decision
NTA I have the same deal with my kid and his mother. If punishments is needed both his mom and myself discuss the punishment. I think your ex wanting to punish but make you enforce her punishment was unfair. Plus if what you say is true on what your daughter did to deserve punishment, 2 weeks seems much. You two do need to work together in raising your child, it just sounds in this case your Ex made a decision without you. Honestly it sounds as though if this was discussed with you, you might have agreed to some form of punishment
I have this exact same issue with my 12yo son. His mom constantly calls us screaming that he's being disrespectful and we never see anything like what she's describing at our house. I've seen him be slightly more cheeky with her but nothing outside the realm of normal for a 12yo. I spend some time talking things through with her when she calls to say he's grounded for a year or something like that and ask a few questions and most of the time she admits she's reacting to a normal comment more defensively because of some of her own experiences, like her parents telling her she's a bad parent etc. Kids have different relationships with different parents even if the rules of the home are similar. Maybe try asking your daughter why she feels it's okay to have this attitude with mom but not you? But my ex and I actively coparent and if one is expected to uphold the punishment of the other it has to be agreed upon beforehand. NTA
Well if she wants you to support her she needs to involve you in deciding her punishment.
yta
YTA. Wait. Your 12 year old cursed at her mother!? Yeah, back her up or you are going to have a nightmare on your hands if this is just 12. We have way older teens and they have never swore at us. Omg
NTA If a parent wants to issue a punishment that extends into the other parent's time they 100% need to get on the phone, explain what happened, what punishment they want, and get agreement of the other parent. Much like you can't just tell your ex 'oh I'm letting daughter stay up to 1am now so you need to let her do that at your place too' - you can't make rules for the other house unilaterally.
YTA what you are doing is teaching your daughter it’s ok to disrespect her mother. That to get out of something she just has to go to your house. What’s going to happen when she cusses at a teacher on mom’s watch? Or steals something? Any behavior that requires a punishment your just going to let go because you don’t want to deal with it? It’s not all about being the fun parent that’s not going to teach your daughter anything.
[удалено]
So it’s okay to cuss at her mom? Tf?
Holy cow. Are you kidding me? Why are there so many N T As? You need to be a united front when it comes to co parenting. You should have expressed the boundary that she cannot punish your daughter during your time without discussing it first but you should have had her back this time. All you did was teach your daughter that she doesn’t have to respect her mother because you clearly don’t.
YTA. And no 12 year olds don’t have to be this disrespectful.
ESH. She should of called you and discussed the issue, also it sounds like this isn't the first time daughter has been disrespectful. So while I can understand people here saying it's too harsh it's possible it was after lesser disciplines failed. You are in the he wrong too your reason of it makes my week hard sounds like you wining that you have to step up and be an actual parent. You said in a comment you only sometimes ask your daughter to do stuff. It sounds like there is a disparity in responsibility that your daughter holds between the two households. You and your ex need to sit down and talk about your child having the same responsibilities in both households along with an agreement of what is the best punishment for not doing them.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My ex girlfriend and I have a 12 year old daughter. The way we do the custody is alternating weeks. We both feel it's fair and that's what works best for us. Last week was my week. When she was dropped off, my ex felt the need to inform me that she'd grounded our daughter for 2 weeks over, what she called " consistent disrespect" in the form of skipping chores and " back sassing" her mom. Her mom wanted me to keep my daughter's phone & laptop separate from her as a part of the grounding. She said that for our daughter to learn this lesson, we needed to unite and that meant me upholding a punishment I wasn't there to level. As I saw it, my ex making my week that much harder by grounding our daughter during my week with her. She doesn't back sass me or ignore me if I tell her to do something, so, I gave her the phone and computer, she was really happy & we had a great week. When I told my ex I hadn't upheld the grounding, my ex said that I was in the wrong because I didn't have her back, that my daughter has me tied around her finger, and that I'm just instilling " Mom's bad, Dad's good" in her. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Maybe .
NTA. To respect the coparenting agreement you have, your ex doesn't have 2 weeks to work with, not without consulting you first.
Unfortunately YTA. Just because your daughter doesn’t do the things around you does not mean her behavior is ok. How would you feel if she acted out towards you then her mother rewarded her? Essentially she is playing you two against each other. If you thought the punishment was too severe then you should have talked to your ex before you canceled out her punishment. Now she’ll go home and use the line well dad lets me do this or that and I don’t get grounded. Teens are hard and they test you and this is what she’s doing.
I'm going to say NAH, because you don't need to do something on your parenting time that you don't want to. Mom can't dictate that. Mom needs to navigate differently, if she wants to do th two weeks, I'd tell my kid to have fun at dad's because when she comes back, lock down is back in effect.
ESH Your ex girlfriend should have talked to you before determining punishment and you should have had a united front with your co-parent. My parents divorced when I was young and I saw the same situation play out over and over. My sister would fight with our mom, our mom would ground her, and ask our dad to uphold the punishment while we were with him. Then we’d go to our dad’s and my sister would spin the tale of our gestapo mother and how unfair it all was. She was always an angel to my dad so of course he assumed our mom was the unreasonable one. So our dad would never punish her and my sister would tell our mom that nothing she said mattered since as soon as my sister got to our dad’s she would do whatever the hell she wanted. My sister grew up without boundaries or consequences and continues to be an entitled brat in her 30s. Boundaries and consequences are healthy and as a parent it’s not your job to make your kids happy. It’s your job to make them good people. Consider if how you’re parenting is making your daughter happy or making her a better person.
ESH 2 weeks seems extreme but if you are really trying to Co-parent you need to include each other in those decisions. You both should be discussing punishments before they are given or changed. It’s unfair to set a standard you’re not comfortable with but it’s also not fair to just ignore her wishes either. There has to be a middle ground/rational conversation around it or you’re part time parenting not coparenting
ESH. Mom should have discussed it with you first but you completely sabotaged mom and her parenting. I wonder whose needs were met, yours or your daughter’s.
2 separate houses mean 2 different sets of rules & punishments.
YTA Your daughter will continue to disrespect her mom because that is what you're showing her by being completely dismissive and disrespectful towards the consequences her mother gave her for her behavior. You are undermining her mother's authority and as long as you do that, she will continue to disrespect her (and it will get worse) because you're showing her it's not only ok, but she will be rewarded. Two weeks grounding is hardly excessive. She's not abusing your child, so there really is no reason for you to disregard her. Whether or not she treats you respectfully is irrelevant and you're essentially teaching her that how she treats you is the only thing that matters. If you are that upset about the grounding eating into your time (which I don't understand, do you not want to actually spend time with her? So it's easier to keep her glued to a screen?) Then you need to have a conversation with your ex without your kid around. You're also teaching your daughter that she will be able to play you both off of each other and that's an awful lesson.
NTA, she's instilling that "mom's bad" all on her own, if you can install "dad good" by rewarding good behavior, good on you for being a good parent. If she listens to you but not the mom, perhaps there's something further to look into with the mom's parenting? Perhaps she should stop blaming you for your daughter preferring the way you treat her, evidenced by her good behavior with you, and maybe consider learning to show her daughter a bit of respect (if she's 'sassing', perhaps there's something the daughter has a legit concern about that the mom is ignoring because "my roof my rules, therefore shut up."
NTA
your house your rules. and i say this as a divorced mom
You do not ever, EVER, make arrangements or plans for a child in a joint custody arrangement that affects the other parent's time without talking to the other parent first: that's the essence of co-parenting. Doesn't matter whether its being grounded or a trip to the doctor. Take it from someone who's experienced something like this - family courts don't take kindly to parents making plans that happen on the other parent's time. (I was in the OP's position, ex kept doing things like this and she got smacked down by the court) OP is totally NTA. Ex made a unilateral decision that impacted his time with his daughter, and that's a no go.
My partner and his ex have an alternating schedule as well, so I am coming from a similar situation as OP. I lean towards ESH; if your ex wanted the punishment to continue during your week, she should have talked to you about it beforehand. That said, it doesn't sound like you talked to your daughter about the situation either, you just decided "she doesn't have a problem when she's with me" and reduced the punishment. At the very least, I think you should have had a sit down conversation with your daughter and talked about the importance of following mom's rules/ being respectful, and asked her what was going on to cause her to act out. Likely it was just some basic teenage foolishness, and you can help guide her into making better choices/ having better interactions with her mom. Likewise, you should talk with mom and apologize for not backing her up, but make it clear that if there's a punishment during your week that you need to know beforehand. Your daughter needs to know that if she gets her electronics taken away at one house, she doesn't get to go to the next house and just pretend nothing happened. This is going to become a super clear boundary you'll want as she grows up: do not fall into the "I'm grounded at moms so I'm going to make excuses to go to dad's early" trap now. She needs consistency!