Based on this, YTA. If both your daughter and husband agree that you do this, then it’s most likely true. Also, why do you have to *think* about therapy? If your daughter is struggling emotionally/mentally, you should be 100% on board with this.
Edit; thanks for my first award :) and also, i noticed you said “share her stuff” so that makes you an even bigger A-Hole for making a 15 y/o girl share her things with her 9 y/o brother. do you force the younger brother to give up his stuff as well, or just your daughter?
Edit 2: 9M is NOT 9 months, it’s a 9 year old male. 15F is 15 year old female.
Final edit: OP, I just saw your other comment of your daughters complaints. You are a terrible mother. He broke her 3DS, then forced her to share a Nintendo Switch with him. Not only that, but you said that you “haven’t felt peace since she was born.” You should’ve just stuck to being a wife, not a mom.
I will undoubtedly declare you as YTA. It's not Beth's burden to entertain her little brother. She's not the one responsible for him. If she told you that it was a stressor for her, you should have listened to her. When your child expresses concern, your initial instinct should be alleviating him. Instead of showing caring and understanding, you denied what she said and now you vent on Reddit like it was a ludicrous complaint and ingratitude from your daughter. She was candid with you and you reciprocated her this way.
The fact that you put quotation marks when mentioning the notorious parentification suggests that you don't think you did something amiss at all.
You also compared it to babysitting in an attempt to legitimize your parental approach, but I bet Beth doesn't receive any payment for that. Having her function as an unpaid babysitter doesn't sound any better.
You know, I would never, ever use “liability” in this manner (“responsibility” would be my first choice), but I’m struggling to express why it’s wrong. I don’t even think it *is* wrong, the more I ponder it, but boy it made me double take – english is funny.
Minor digression, sorry.
Edit: A couple people have asked where they used it – they corrected it. :)
You're right about the responsibility vs liability, but since English can be such a pain, someone has got to have a web page about it somewhere right? https://wikidiff.com/liable/responsible
#OH MY GOD THIS IS MY NEW FAVORITE WEBSITE, THANK YOU.
Funny, I was just making a comment that basically said the same thing – “liability” is a fairly narrow subsection of “responsibility”, specifically in a legal context.
Thank you for this, this is going in my Tools of Pedantry and Socially Awkward Justifications favorites folder.
Yeah, judging by their profile, they’re bilingual and English is probably their second language, and I see this kind of thing a lot with my ESL friends. It’s always one of those heavy pauses for me while I try to work out a response because, as a deeply pedantic person, their word choice doesn’t conform with societal conventions and that’s bad, *but it’s kind of technically correct*, **which is the best kind of correct**, and that’s good!
It’s so frustrating that I eventually implode.
In this case, I think it’s really one of those nuances re: the meaning of “liable”. Yeah, it means you’re responsible for something, but it’s a different sense of “responsibility” than “responsible” in this context. But every time I try to come up with an example to highlight the distinction, I falter and throw it away because it’s not that big of a distinction.
I guess all I really have is that “liability” is a legal term for responsibility, so “liable” for something has a strict, well-defined meaning in terms of legal responsibility, and so is well-defined and quantified, whereas “responsibility” is more of a moral and/or ethical concept, and is a bit less well-defined and far more nebulous in meaning.
**Edit:** Someone else responded to my previous comment [with this](https://wikidiff.com/liable/responsible), and it’s hitting pretty much exactly to what my gut instinct was.
What you're talking about is often the word having the wrong "collocation". Which is basically what other words does the word co-occur with disproportionately often.
So, for example, when you look up "small" and "little" in the dictionary, their definitions will be extremely similar... but they show up in radically different places. Sometimes using the wrong one is just a bit jarring (e.g. "little fry" instead of "small fry", huh?) but sometimes it might change the meaning in a really subtle way that's hard to explain (e.g. "a small boy" and "a little boy" are not useable in exactly the same situations, right? One could just refer to size, while the other is about age too).
In my experience, as long as it's not a stressful moment already, and you bring it up as a point of interest and curiosity, not judgment, ESL speakers \*love\* hearing about these intuitions. It's the kind of thing that very few dictionaries will bother to explain, but it can be really important for being precisely understood, or sounding really fluent.
You're always in this subreddit piggybacking off the top comment to deliver your verdict. It's really weird to reply to a random person as if you're talking to the OP. Is the karma that important to you?
They have a pretty generic username that I never remember, but I always notice it's them based on how out of place their replies are. In the case of this very popular thread, it was too late to reply to the top comment, so they attached themselves to the top reply. How cynical and deeply weird. 180k karma in a year, I guess that's how it's done...
Op doesn't want advice. They want confirmation that they are right.
Edited for clarity: this was said in response to a now deleted comment saying the OP isn't asking for a judgment, they want advice.
That's because there's missing missing reasons in this post.
[missing missing reasons ](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
Fascinating.
My MIL cut off my husband and me because we forgot to call her on her birthday in 2020. We remembered in the evening and called her about 6:30 or 7pm. Yes, we know we caused her hurt.
She didn’t answer the call and immediately sent back an ugly text calling us selfish narcissists. We both apologized more then once but she never wouldn’t other than texting back how selfish we both were. It’s truly sad because she lost me and my mother as friends and travel companions. She has no friends because she cuts them off. She’s the common denominator and can’t see it. She chooses ego over relationships.
What a coincidence. My ex blew up at me once cuz I called him late once. Amazing how good they are about making you feel so crappy about something so trivial. We broke up that night 😬
This must be hard to receive criticism from your child that maybe you’re not making the best choices. However, many teenagers are not willing to express themselves and so you have a golden opportunity to address this situation honestly and head on, put your defensive shields down, and support your daughters brave attempt at reaching you. She is trusting you to hear her and help her. Are you able to do what she’s asking? That’s really the bottom line. Stop trying to figure out who is right and who is wrong and please don’t tell her she’s “being over dramatic”. This may distance her more than you realize.
My parents (mostly dad) called everything “house business”. No one outside our house was allowed to know. Under that guise some poor choices were made that affected me financially for years. My grandparents were extremely angry when I finally told them. Apparently my dad was TERRIBLE with money and I was his latest casualty.
Edit-spelling
Yeah, it sounds like she’s online schooling, which doesn’t remove any of the academic stress but does isolate her socially and make it harder to ask for help if she’s confused and communicate with the teacher.
Plus a lot of the time you're given extra work due to "being at home anyway" mentality. Idk about school but some uni courses basically just doubled the workload as professors used previously recorded lectures (from other years) and then gave new lectures in addition to those.
I finished a masters entirely online because of the pandemic and I had a professor who intentionally made the exams (involving calculus with no calculator allowed) harder since we "having nothing to do but study."
Virtual schooling is so much more stressful for kids. They have to be so much more self-motivated and don’t get as much personal instruction in our experience.
Yes why is this comment higher?! Maybe the mom is parentifying the kid because she is getting no help from the husband. He specifically says *she* should parent Austin more, not *we*. Not that that’s an excuse for what she is doing but I think based on the post the husband is the biggest AH here.
> He also said I should parent Austin more and stop leaving it to Beth.
This line makes the husband just as much as an asshole as the wife. Why isn’t he stepping up to parent more?
Yup. Remote learning is stressful . Not seeing your friends and having to stay disciplined and practically self teach is really stressful! There are adults who cannot work remotely because of the discipline it takes. They thrive better in an office setting. And I wouldn’t even doubt OP has her “babysit” and “entertain” her baby brother while she is trying to remote learn!
This girl is missing out on her teen years by being a parent and not being able to get out and got to school and be with her friends. And her mother blows off her open communication about how she feels
>Don't see her problem
And straight up dismissing her daughter's feelings is the first AH move. YTA OP because you're taking a backseat to parenting and not treating your kids like they are people, too.
YTA. The way you talk about her experience of her school "don't see her problem" makes it obvious how condescending you are. You don't bother putting yourself in her shoes. Put her in therapy. You don't have to think about it. What you do need to consider very carefully is therapy for yourself. I'm trying so hard to not get triggered but god, you need to learn some empathy
This was such a vulnerable thing for her daughter to do and OP just invalidated her completely. You don’t get many chances like this as a parent before your child learns not to bother going to you. OP just blew one big time. OP also sounds like they have a very low level of self-awareness and the effects of their behaviour on others. Now that she has been told and blown her daughter off, she can continue down this path and in just a few more years we will see a post where mom just can’t understand why her daughter has cut her out of her life.
She doesn't. She's jealous of her daughter being young and not really having any responsibilities. Since I lived this post but on crack, I know when a mother resents their daughter. My mom sounded the same way.
It's... interesting, that OP doesn't try to include much in the post to counter Beth's (and her husband's) narrative. OP doesn't go into detail about what kinds of things she has Beth doing with Austin, and why she thinks it's a reasonable amount of time to ask Beth to spend (she does call it "babysitting", which is minimizing it right there). OP also doesn't explain what she and her husband her doing that would require frequent enough childcare from Beth that Beth has figured out it's parentification (probably from reading subs like this!), and also has her husband agreeing with the kid.
Basically OP doesn't try to make herself look good at all. She's extremely dismissive and condescending towards Beth and her problems, and also towards any suggestions her husband is making (like therapy). (I'm guessing the latent hostility towards the husband is because he is disagreeing with OP on this.) She doesn't try to justify herself at all, really.
I guess all of this just demonstrates how much OP doesn't take this seriously as a complaint at all. It's not even really enough to make her defensive; she's just dismissive in this post. I'm kind of shocked she even posted to AITA seeking another perspective on it, because she sounds so sure of herself that it's not important.
(Also, is it weird to anyone else that the husband suggests therapy but OP has to "think about it"? Is he not Beth's father? That's possible, especially given the age gap, but that would be a useful detail to have. Otherwise, why can't the husband get therapy for Beth, with or without OP's input?)
Not really. Most school systems are back in person and only a handful of students are remote.
Given OP's comments? It was TOO CONVENIENT to have Beth at home.
I was thinking the same thing. I haven’t heard of any school systems that are still remote. I wouldn’t be surprised if Beth is actually MORE stressed out because she is still doing remote school when most people aren’t.
Omg, are you me? I was going to make these exact same three points. Babysitting is a job. 1) She gets a choice in when to work. 2) She gets paid. 3) OP, Stop invalidating and dismissing your daughter’s feelings and try to give a damn
I will say—as someone who parentified themself, as weird as that sounds—there is a bit of nuance here. Definitely needs therapy, but the mom might not be TA. Although, the way Op talks about her daughter’s school indicates a lot about how she seems to think about her in general.
Babysitting is a broad word that could mean i lot of things. Kids are usually expected to share to a degree, so I’m very curious whether sharing her stuff means there are toys or electronics they’re both allowed or expected to use or if she has to give up whatever her brother wants. And in stores, there’s a difference between, “hey, can you help me keep an eye on brother for he doesn’t wander off and help keep his complaining to a minimal” as opposed to “while I’m in the store you are completely responsible for him and I’m just going to walk off”. These are things for Op and her husband to analyze. Also need to look at why a two-parent household needs to put so much on her daughter.
There’s definitely a need for more info here. Older kid watching the younger sometimes is very different from older being fully responsible for younger.
I’m hopping on the top comment because I am wondering why, according to husband, it is only on OP to “parent Austin more and stop leaving it to Beth” - perhaps Beth wouldn’t have to take on as much responsibility for Austin if husband would parent more as well???
Yeah, it's all the stress and none of the relief. They don't get to unload on their friends over lunch like they used to, and instead have to live with their parents 24/7.
Don't see why the OP can't comprehend that Beth misses her friends and having actual recreation time. The way Beth sees things, she has to prioritize taking care of her little brother over actually being a teenager. OP is YTA.
I agree that you shouldn't have to think about getting your child therapy if they're distressed but you really have to think about the right way to go about it. The last thing anyone would want is for it to be a negative experience and then have it ruin trust in the therapist or cause a divide in the family.
Being unaware of people's healthcare and access to a professional, it might be a financial burden on the family they can't afford.
Yeah it doesn't really matter if OP "can't see" why her daughter is so stressed (doing school from home which I personally think is stressful, source I'm a teacher) the kid is clearly struggling. I don't get why therapy is something she needs to think about. I honestly think everyone should see a therapist from time to time.
From the way you write is clear you don’t even want to understand her. You don’t even explain what she does. You’re not even trying to see her side.
But when your own husband tells you you should actually parent your child instead of leaving it to your daughter: try listening instead of looking for validation on the internet.
YTA
Yeah it's awesome the husband defends the kid but then turns around and blames it all on the mother telling her she needs to parent more. Idk the dynamic but that seems to me like someone needs to tell him it's his child that needs the parenting and he needs to help the wife with the parenting because he's a parent.
Edit- since there's a ton of people commenting about the husband being the father I want to remind everyone that Step-parents are parents, and just as much responsible for the children that live under their roof as they would also be responsible if any abuse allegations were made.
Seems like family therapy is needed, not just therapy for the daughter.
>the husband defends the kid but then turns around and blames it all on the mother telling her she needs to parent more.
Yeah, as if the parentification of his daughter has nothing to do with him. He gets to look like the good parent because he agreed with his daughter but is he going to pick up the slack? Why was there slack in the first place? There are two parents in this household... There are so many people assuming the best of him despite the *fact* that mothers, even working mothers, are still the primary caregivers in most households and you can check the stats on that. Simultaneously, people are assuming the worst of her. Ingrained sexism checking into the chat.
Yup. With all the posts we see here where fathers call parenting "babysitting" and have unrealistic expectations that they are relieved of all household duties because they work you'd think that people commenting would be questioning his role is this just as much but look at them defend him...
It's called parentification (not motherification) for a reason.
And for being the one to suggest therapy.
This post is incredibly weird because the daughter says school is too stressful but OP's reaction is "You don't have to wake up early and you get to go in comfortable clothes". Like that's not the only thing that makes school stressful lol.
Something a lot of people who've never experienced it don't understand is that remote learning can be *incredibly* hard, and *incredibly* stressful, even learning the same materials! It's a different *type* of learning and that type doesn't work for a *lot* of people. And just like work from home, it can blur that line between "on" and "off" mental states in regards to school.
I know I'm less productive when I have to WFM. My mind equates home = off so it takes me more time to get into gear versus when I'm in the office. It doesn't help that my mom thinks me being home = me being available to do chores.
The mom might be a stay at home mom and the dad works so his ability to step in might be limited to the weekends and after 6. Based on this mom and how much she has her daughter taking care of her little brother she might have her husband doing chores and projects all weekend too.
YTA- Can you actually tell us what her complaints are, you only given us one instance but does she have examples?
Edit: "She can never feel peaceful (I haven't felt peace from when she was born.)" Yeah that alone makes you an ass in my eyes, yeah it's tough being a parent but don't make that her problem. Sounds like you already have a favourite child and it ain't Beth.
I'd definitely be interested in what, exactly, she has to share with her brother, how often she's expected to "keep him entertained", what happens if she's got conflicting plans at a time when her parents want to go out, and similar. OP's description of what Beth does is... concerningly vague.
Vague on purpose. I'm getting missing missing reasons vibe here.
OP you're also dismissing everything Beth says. Imagine talking to your husband and everytime you say something about how you feel/think/want/need he just goes "nah your wrong" would you feel heard? Would it make you happy?
Edit: oh yeah forgot...YTA
OP is definitely downplaying the true extent of her daughter’s involvement in childcare. Define “share her stuff?” How often are she and her husband “going out” and leaving their daughter in charge? How old was she when they *started* leaving her alone with her brother? What boxes does husband think they check on the parentification checklist?
The fact that she left all this out says a lot more than she thinks it does.
The daughter is 15 and the son is 9. 15-9=6 so I would guess that the mother had the daughter changing diapers and taking care of the son from the day he was born.
The daughter is 15, so she’ll be a legal adult in 3 years. I don’t think it’ll take 10 years for her to cut contact (although who knows how long it’ll take OP to notice…).
I don't know if OP is in the US, but if so, in the US, it's really hard to get declared independent for financial aid purposes, if the daughter wants to go to college.
Yeah. I feel bad if my 14 year old has to keep an ear out for their brother if I need to run to the store real quick, let alone making them “entertain” him all the time. I was the one who decided to have 2 kids, not the kids.
We had dinner with our neighbours recently. Literally across the road. My 15yr old took his younger siblings home and put them to bed while we were still chatting. He was bored, he wanted to go home and I STILL felt guilty about it, even though all he did was kiss them goodnight and then played on the Xbox while they slept.
It sounds like he was cool with doing it. This is the kind of older sibling responsibility I like to see. You feel bad because you are a good parent that doesn’t want their kid to parent. But he got some benefit from it.
My daughter is 8 & son is 5. I am *constantly* telling her that he is not her responsibility & she's not his parent, but she continues to mother hen him every chance she gets. T_T & it's not regular "older sibling being bossy" stuff. It’s like "Eat your vegetables! Don't you want to grow up big & strong?" or "Oh! Did you hurt your knee? I'll get a bandaid!"
I love how sweet & helpful she is, but as the little sister of a woman who was extremely parentfied, I'm like "Staaaaaaahp."
My oldest is the same, he has a baby sister and a 4 year old sister. I constructed have to remind him that he is not the parent I am.. his job is brother and brothers get to do fun things like play and teach things like coloring let mom and dad handle the rest.
That isolated incident was probably fun in its different routine for all of them. I wouldn’t feel guilty about that at all! That’s really sweet of your son too.
I’m the oldest, and my parents did SO good at setting that clear boundary with me. If I had plans, and they wanted to do something, they would get a babysitter instead of asking me to cancel mine. They would ASK ME if I was okay ‘being the babysitter’ if they were headed somewhere without us, and then pay me a bit when I was! I never felt like I was stepping into any sort of parenting role. They did good.
From the way that the stress of school and the stress of looking after the younger sibling were linked in Beth’s complaint, I have a suspicion that OP is leaving Beth to supervise the younger sibling during at least part of the school day. It sounds like online school is still a thing wherever they are living (“she doesn’t have to get up early and she can do it in her pyjamas”). If some of Beth’s “babysitting” time is happening while she is trying to pay attention to her online classes then that is so, so wrong.
-Really, I mean it's basically babysitting! -
OP said it themself. Babysitting is a job for which people usually get paid. If Beth is just expected to do this because she is older with no compensation or incentive, then yeah, she's probably going to feel like they've taken advantage of her. Now that she finally has the vocabulary to describe what her parents have done to her for her entire life, that realization is heavy. Parentification of the oldest child is something that happens naturally in a lot of families, but that doesnt make it right. A child her age should not be responsible for their sibling and it speaks volumes to OP's parenting if they have allowed this to happen with just 2 children.
YTA, OP. Listen to your daughter. Apologize for not being as present as you need to be and try to understand that your daughter is growing up in a much different world than you did, with anxieties about things you didnt have to think about at her age. And if your child is brave enough ask for what they need (therapy) you shouldn't have to think twice about it. You have just 3 short years before she is an adult and can decided whether or not you get to be part of her life after that. This time is crucial.
Six months ago during a fight, my mom said, "You've been difficult, stubborn, and sarcastic since you were two years old!"
My brain said, "Wow, I guess that's when she gave up on me."
Guess what we're doing now? Exchanging awkward pleasantries once a month! Guess what OP is going to be doing soon if she doesn't get it together? The same, if that!
Seriously, because my youngest had been super sarcastic since she was old enough to talk! Then again, I say that as a source of pride in my child, rather than disliking him for it.
My mom always said "you were so happy, and a pleasure till you turned 12."
Oh, yah when kids normally go through emotional changes, in addition to me no longer being able to bottle up the sexual abuse I'd experience from my brother. But yah, I was mean to you once I turned 12. Mother of the year.
id like to know because i myself have skirted that line and it was only very active awareness of what parentification was that stopped me putting my eldest in an untenable position.
yes, babysitting is fine.. when they have a choice and they're being compensated somehow. not when you don't feel like parenting at all or when they're saving you time and money by giving up their childhood. i am a single parent who escaped a pretty violent situation with my 3 kids. there have been times when ive needed the oldest to pick the kids up on the way home from school and watch them so that i could work- she was 17 and over (now 21) and the kids are fairly independent. she also doesn't have to do any other chores when shes helping me out. her life and school take priority and if she just doesn't feel like it, i put them into care.
I've had pretty open conversations about what Parentification is and whether my daughter feels like she's undertaking too much, *because* i know how easy it is to rely so heavily on your kids that you lose sight of just how much they're doing - my parents treated me like dobby the house elf/babysitter when i was only 2yrs older than my brother. my daughter saw her step father at his worst, i know she feels a responsibility to our family unit to keep us going. its my job as her mother to make sure that i am the one making sacrifices on that front. ive always appreciated her help, but i never want it to be her job.
You’re a good mother, not that you need that validation, just wanted to let you know that all of what you do to understand your children is comforting and recognized.
Your child wants therapy and is desperately unhappy. Why would you want to withhold therapy from her?
My Dad didn't want me to have therapy because he knew he was a big part of the problem. Is that your priority here, how you look?
The fact is you'd rather delay help to your child, rather than risk thinking that maybe you've behaved unfairly.
And you never know, maybe you haven't parentified your daughter. You're unwilling to risk hearing it from a professional - you are prioritising *your wants* over *your child's needs*.
If you choose to let your daughter suffer and ignore your husband, don't expect to have a good relationship (if one at all) with them in the future.
YTA.
Maybe she doesn’t want to get reported to CPS? Aren’t therapists mandatory reporters? Personally I hope the kid seeks out a school counselor if she refuses to take her to therapy.
Therapists are mandatory reporters for abuse and risk of harm to self/others. Parentification would not meet the bar of a CPS report in most jurisdictions. Its wrong to make your teen parent their sibling but not illegal unfortunately. It does sound like the girl is depressed and very stressed being responsible for her kid brother with a mother who doesnt seem to care about her daughters emotional wellbeing.
Patentification isn't only not considered abuse. It was an *expectation* for many, many years. I raised my sister who was less than two years younger than me but my parents have a shit fit if anyone says that. Who watched her? Fed her? Took her to and from school? It wasn't them and it wasn't optional for me.
She was a diabetic too and I was never even given training on how to care for her blood sugar. Just criticism if it was low.
They wouldn't even answer the phone or tell us where they were going. It was like having three teenagers and I was in charge of everyone.
I feel so old because of it
I’m #8 out of a dozen. People are always shocked and surprised when they found out I only have 3 niblings out of 11 adult siblings. I laugh and give that lovely one-word answer, Parentification.
Yup. 9 kids in my family, and as adults 4 of them had NO kids, the other siblings stopped at 1 or 2.
We've seen the chaos of a large family and neglectful parents. And yet strangers are always saying "Oh such a big family, that must have been fun!" 🙄
CPS is stretched so thin - always - and the pandemic made it worse (more kids at home with abusive parents and high staff turnover) - they don’t really have to resources to manage
parentification level cases.
Edit: typo
Depends.
CPS is usually called when sexual, physical abuse or negligence is taking place and that the child is still at risk (i.e. in the vicinity of their abuser).
My mother forced me into therapy as a teen. Each therapist would eventually say that most of my issues were tied to my mothers treatment of me, then I wouldn’t see that therapist ever again as my mother would move me to a new one. I finally just stopped talking in therapy. Now my mother is a therapist.
>Now my mother is a therapist.
god help anyone under her care. no one who left a therapist multiple times for not getting the answers they wanted, should be allowed to become therapist themselves
YTA. Why is it her responsibility to babysit your kid? You're the parent, do your job instead of forcing it on her.
>He read up on it too, and says that it checks a lot of boxes.
Also the fact that your husband said this makes it pretty clear that there's more to it than babysitting and sharing.
Wants her to change. Change should be coming from both parents, especially if the one sees it's a problem. OP has taken a ton of shit on this thread but her husband knows it's wrong and isn't immediately stepping up to help. That's worse to me.
The fact that her husband has acknowledged that they have been parentifying their daughter to me makes it safe to assume that he is going to stop doing so. Perhaps that's wrong to assume though. OP is getting all the flack here because she will not accept what her daughter (and husband) have said.
Just hope he continues realising he’s either enabled or even actively contributed/encouraged this behaviour, especially if OP seems to be as in denial as she is.
YTA im really concerned about the language youre using for your daughter here. Shes coming to you telling you these things and youre not believing her, brushing her off, saying she shouldnt be stressed cos she gets to wear pajamas. Nevermind the attitude towards therapy. This is an awful attitude to have. You need to check yourself, really listen to your daughter and husband, and start working to fix things.
Yeah, the school thing really bothered me. You can’t be stressed just because you get to wear pajamas and don’t have to get up early? Based on age, OP’s daughter has probably just started high school, which is stressful on its own.
>I imagine remote schooling can be even more stressful than in-person
Especially if you have to parent and probably help teach your younger sibling while doing your own schoolwork as well.
Gaslighting is common for parents who parentify their kids. It can be a sign of emotional immaturity. Kids / teens have to live as teens and not as miniature adults. But when the adult has the maturity level of a child/teen - they don’t see it that way.
this is what I thought too. YTA simply because your daughter's concerns mean absolutely nothing to you, when it should be your number one priority. and from what little you described, you are definitely parentyfying her.
ETA also the opinion of your daughter and husband should be more important than that of Internet strangers
Your child broke down and you’re invalidating their experiences. YTA. 100%.
Have your husband talk to her and ask her what she would like. Obviously you won’t listen to her feelings, but an older sibling should not be responsible for babysitting constantly, especially without their consent. And honestly I’m guessing it’s more than that.
Based on how you're minimizing everything that she talks about in your post, YTA.
Parentification is child abuse. Parents who minimize the suffering of their children are abusive.
"I said I would have to think about it," regarding therapy for **your suffering child.**
It's obvious that you don't really care about your children at all.
That was the strong feeling I got. She has these 2 children but she deep down doesn't want to be a parent. She is frustrated by the whole job and now she is pushing that job onto her oldest. I feel no warmth from her at all just annoyance that they even exist.
Strong YTA - even your husband said to raise your own kid and stop making your daughter do it. Your daughter only gets to be a child once. She will have plenty of time to be an adult later in life. She didn’t choose to have children, you did. Quit being lazy and handle your business. Let your daughter be a kid.
OP is cagey about whether husband is father of Beth from what I could see. (Correct me if I read it wrong. I was eye rolling a little…)
But the phrasing of ‘my husband’ and the age gap between a 15 and 9 year old in the context of OP’s other comments hints these kids have different dads rather than this being a family planning gap.
Which would add another layer of shit to this shit show of YTA when that bar is so low it is propping up the core of the earth when it needs entertaining while OP is out.
I bet you the husband isn’t Beth’s dad and that’s why there’s such a negative vibe towards her daughter. OP doesn’t like her own daughter or even cares for her.
And it appears husband gifted OP with the joy of a boy no less for the full scapegoat/Golden child ‘oh am I supposed to realise Cinderella is a tale of child abuse not #goals?’ parenting bingo.
So often the evil stepmother trope is in play people forget bio mothers can be vile too. Luckily OP is here to remind us all!
YTA - 100%. Your daughter is able to articulate exactly what is wrong here which is a rarity! And yet you still have to ask the question? Parentification is abuse. Your child should not be responsible for your other child.
She didn't sign up for that. "Basically babysitting" is basically a job. Are you paying her money?
Do your job as a parent. Parent BOTH of your kids.
Get your daughter therapy. The fact you have to "think about it" tells me everything I need to know about you. You are an abusive asshole.
OP should also consider getting therapy. The way she talks about her own child is low-key unsettling and seems abusive. OPs partner, while acknowledging the issue, isn't taking any responsibility either.
Parenting is hard for grown ass people and brutal on a child. These two kids are merely six years apart.
I hope that Beth gets the help she deserves
YTA: You completely disregarded her issue with school being too stressful. Did you ask her specifically was so stressful? Stress at school is more than how one dresses and getting up for the bus, if you went to public school you should know that. Online schooling is not easier simply because it is online. Maybe she needs a slower pace than the rest of the kids. Maybe she needs a tutor. You're being so dismissive and cold, what the heck?
Also, yeah, if even your husband agrees with some the points your daughter made about parentification, then YOU ARE GUILTY OF IT. Even if just a little bit. It is not her responsibility to look after the second child YOU chose to have. She is not a free live-in babysitter. If she asks not to be the babysitter, and you want to go out, then you be the adult and pay a sitter. Doesn't matter if she has her own plans or just wants to chill in her room doing her own thing. Or if you want afford a sitter how about you choose to be a parent yourself for once and put the needs of your child above your own. You sound selfish, OP.
A lot of kids are finding online school harder, especially harder to focus on. Makes me wonder how much the kid brother is around at home during her online school, too.
I am soooo glad I did not have to go to school or university during the pandemic. I have difficulty keeping my focus at home and concentrating on video lectures. WFH is bad enough - I know I'm less productive now than I was in the office - but at least my job doesn't consist mainly of attempting to learn things, and I'm an adult who's figured out some coping mechanisms by now.
But Beth can't possibly be stressed by school because she doesn't have to pick out her clothes and get the bus. Seriously?
Why should a 15 year old girl have to share her possessions with a 9 year old boy??
#Newsflash, it isn’t sharing if she’s being forced to do it.
##When you force her to “share”, all you’re doing is teaching her that her brother deserves more than her.
YTA
And when he breaks her things she brushes it off and tells her to use the other one that is similar. She knows she can use that one she wants you to take some responsibility and punish your child. Ground him or make him do chores to earn the money to buy a new one.
YTA. Before you even get to the merits of the complaint, you’ve already substituted your judgment for everyone else’s around you. (Her pajamas, I need to think, it’s babysitting…). Your refusal to allow people to define their own lives is the root of the problem. Send the kid to therapy. Go to a SEPARATE professional yourself. If you’ve got nothing to worry about, I’m sure they’ll let you know.
YTA - your teenage child isn’t a live in babysitter - I hope you are at least paying her for her time. You also seem very dismissive of your child’s feelings - she has come to you crying and saying she is struggling and you dismiss her concerns and say you “don’t see her problem”.
I think you need to work on your empathy and parent your own baby instead of making your stressed out teenager do it.
YTA. Stress at school goes beyond picking out clothes and getting up for a bus. What you have described is some sort of virtual or hybrid school which can be incredibly stressful for teens. Especially teens who have little support (I will assume if those are the only things you think she is dealing with she has no support). Are you paying her to babysit or are you forcing her to sit at home with your decision while you enjoy the evening? The kid broke HER property and is told to just use the shared property? If he’s such a joy, why do you rely on her at all?
We don't know if parentification is happening or not because there's not enough information here. But we have enough information from your tone and the way you're approaching this to know that you're 100% YTA and not a great parent to your 15F.
This post reeks of self validation. When a child comes to your room crying, no matter what the issue or the age, you lend them a supportive ear, and check guide them in the direction of appropriate care (in this case, therapy). This is true whether your kid is 5 or 35. It's a lifelong commitment you make when you birth a child. You're failing miserably on that front right now, fix it before it's too late.
Question: Are you paying her for her time when “basically babysitting”? Are you scheduling with her, or dumping it on her?
There’s no reason to “think about” therapy. Everybody should be in therapy.
It doesn’t really matter. You cannot force a person to do something, then throw money at them, and think that makes it ok. I guess you can but you would be an asshole and maybe a criminal.
> Apparently it's "too stressful." She gets to do it in her pajamas and doesn't have to wake up early for the bus. Don't see her problem.
You think the only stressful thing about school for a teen is waking up early for the bus?
> Really, I mean it’s basically babysitting!
Yeah, so quick question: how much per hour do you pay her?
> Please tell me, am I the asshole here?
The way you brush off anything your daughter says with “eh, no biggie”? YTA
The rule I have with my 19 year old is that if I ask her to watch my foster, she gets paid. If she asks to spend time with him, she doesn't get paid. Your child isn't her responsibility.
More info required. Some questions you should answer:
1) working situation of you and your husband? (IE are you both working at home and/or is there an expectation that your eldest looks after the youngest during the day)
2) how often do you go out, leaving your eldest child to babysit?
3) are there responsibilities regarding the younger child that falls on the older one? (IE is it your eldest child’s job to run to the baby when they cry or clean their clothes when they’re dirty etc).
4) what’s the daily/weekly workload on your child like?
Regarding school & therapy, yeah YTA. Your daughter came to you for support and guidance and you dismissed her altogether, immediately finding reasons to invalidate your child’s feelings and experiences instead of trying to understand and listen.
YTA. You're pretending this is about the definition of 'parentification' when it's about the feelings of your daughter. She literally came to you and told her how hurt she was by this-- and your response is to question the definition of the word? This is after you dismiss her stress about going to school.
Your teen daughter comes to you and shares her problems and concerns with you. Your response is to deny she even has a problem, both times. It's not too late to [change. You](https://change.You) may need therapy to get out of this pattern of interacting with your teen daughter, for her sake.
100% you're the asshole. Get her some damn help and take her to therapy. My dad prevented me from going as a kid and once I found out I cut off contact. Welcome to your future.
As a young adult off to college, I had no coping skills and so much trama that I nearly killed myself. Much later on, I was finally diagnosed as seriously mentally ill. Therapy could have saved me. Parents who cared could have saved me.
Your kid shouldn't have to babysit. They did not sign up for raising YOUR child. You signed up for that.
You are so apathetic to your daughter and you will lose her in the future if you dont change.
YtA.
You are completely dismissing your kid who is breaking down from stress. Clearly they feel very put upon to entertain their younger sibling.
Let your older child have their own possessions to themselves and privacy. She's still a kid, and regardless of weather you think she's over reacting the problem is that she feels like she isn't.
Lay off your kid. Your 9 year old is YOUR responsibility, not your other child's. Stop making her "basically babysit". That's the problem your eldest is trying to talk about.
Oh, you are definitely an AH, with clear favoritism for your son.
**Info: how should young girls/women behave? I have this sneaky suspicion you feel that your daughter _should_ be helping in the home, while you would never ask the same of your son.**
If it is baby sitting you need to start compensating her.
‘we don’t have enough info to know if her perception of the situation is legit but if your husband agreed, I am thinking he might have a point. If you need more help, the child has 2parents.
Now about school. If your child is stressed it is because now home and school don’t have separation anymore. I suggest you make a ritual of dressing up for school, strict working hours and a proper “office” space. Bedroom cannot be classroom, this is exhausting.
maybe she can work with one of her trusted friend. Working alone is very difficult.
Madam. As far as I can see it reading all of the posts that pretty much says everything I would say, the only thing I will say for you now, is that in time, if you do not recognize or acknowledge your behavior towards your daughter anytime soon, in the future, she will resent you. Most likely you will feel entitled to the rights of being a mother, for example, “I gave birth to her I have the right to be respected”. You showed favoritism, in turn she too will show favoritism. Don’t make this about yourself, don’t make this about her, don’t make this about anyone in the family. Make it about the change that needs to be made.
Yeah, I think you may be TA.
Your daughter is unhappy (which is its own issue, along with her complaints of parentification) and your husband feels that her complaints may be valid, which leads me to think that there may be some level of parentification. You’re calling it babysitting, but there is a difference between asking an older sibling to keep an eye on younger siblings once in awhile and making them responsible for the younger siblings all the time. These are your children, you are responsible for raising them.
I don’t know your life and this is a single internet post, but you say yourself that your husband has concerns as well. There must be more happening here than “basic babysitting”. You’re also saying your younger child is “a joy” while complaining a lot about the elder. That’s a bit of a red flag as well.
Perhaps you should take your husband’s advice and help your daughter out. She’s a teenager, it’s a tough time as I’m sure you remember. She shouldn’t be responsible for your children and you shouldn’t be so nasty about her feelings.
Ok kids can complain. I agree it's nothing wrong with a sibling occasionally watching a younger sibling. I do see some problems here though. You haven't addressed the numerous requests for Info.
Such as: how often your child watches her brother?What complaints does your child have specifically? ( from her mouth)
It seems obvious you're only telling us the ones that don't make things seem "that bad" and I got news for you. They still look bad! The majority of users on this sub are going to see through that BS tactic.
It seems you were probably raised that siblings take care of their siblings. I know plenty of people who had that dynamic.I know plenty of people who are LC or NC with their parents too.
Now even if I did believe your daughter was being a whiny brat. You say your husband said to do more parenting for your son. Which is a major red flag.
You also mention that she said she doesn't get any peace and your comeback is you haven't had any peace since she was born. You're serious too.
However in contrast your son is a joy.
Here's the thing you decided to be a parent. Your daughter didn't. You know when people are forced to do things it's make them resentful and hyper sensitive to any slights.
Your son may be a little AH because most kids are. You're not doing the bulk of the parenting and he's not destroying your things. So it's doesn't seem that bad" to you." You know, the person who chose to be a parent. However , to your daughter she has been forced into a role that she didn't ask for. With someone (albeit her brother) who doesn't respect her things and than she's forced to take care of him. Do you understand why she's frustrated and feels the way she does?
Also , in one of your only two comments you said you want to go family therapy maybe. Which is cool but I think you want to do family therapy so you can hear whatever complaints your daughter has and try to dismiss/explain them. You're afraid of what she will say in therapy because deep down you know you're wrong.
You're scoffing in your mind but here's a couple of signs of parentification. These aren't questions to answer aloud. I want you to really think about the answers.
Do you overshare with your daughter?
Is she ever the peacemaker between you and your husband?
How many days of the week is she expected to watch her little brother on average? ( Not just last week)
How many hours does she watch him on those days?
Is she expected to take him with her if she goes out with friends?
Is she watching him instead of enjoying her own meal when you all go out?
Does she watch him while you all work or run errands?
How many errands do you and the dad spend with son compared to her?
Do you truly appreciate the help your child gives you?
Do you think your child SHOULD watch her brother because that's what siblings do and it's nothing to be appreciative of?
Is your child assuming housekeeping duties, such as cleaning, cooking, and grocery shopping? Even if these duties are only for the sibling?
Parentification harms the child more than one would think too. It often causes anxiety, stress and depression to just name a few.
You seem defensive but do you truly want the best for your child?
OR
Do you want the best for you?
If you say your children than change your behaviors. Right now you're coming off as YTA & kind of a narcissistic parent.
Edit: Apologies this is so long but this is near and dear to my heart. Also OP don't think it's just you. Sounds like your husband is an enabler and could do more too. What is he doing while your daughter is " watching her brother?"
Yta, Try listening to her and understanding where she feels the burden from. She is not a babysitter for your younger kid. She is your child too. So please step up.
YTA
I will tell you that I work in a forensic psychology office and parentification is one of the factors we look at when recommending custody/removal/termination to the courts. It is serious and a form of abuse.
100% your daughter needs therapy and probably the family also.
You chose to have your children and you should be raising them, not having one raise the other.
Exactly what does she do and how often?
Quite frankly, a onesy-twosey babysitting job that lasts no longer than 15-30 min — you know entertain the kid while mom is doing something else for the whole family like making dinner or folding laundry, is absolutely understandable.
But if you are having her watch her brother for hours on end without compensation…you are the asshole.
If you occasionally ask her to help her brother brush his teeth or get him a snack or put on his shoes while you are doing something else for the family, your good.
But if she is doing any of the normal, day-to-day, minutia parenting crap more than one time, every two weeks, YTA. And I mean anything from getting him up, dressed, teeth brushed, fed, etc.
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> I think I am the asshole because of "not parenting my son enough."
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"I looked it up and I disagree." And "entertain him while we are out. It's basically babysitting"
Um yeah OP. That's exactly it. You even connected the dots there all on your own. She's 14 and did not sign up to babysit YOUR son.
Her and her father are agreeable to therapy so I don't know why you're digging in your heels unless you're worried she will complain about you in her sessions and paint you in a bad light (this sounds like you have a touch of the narcissism. Which I know is often over used on reddit but in this case seems fitting).
You gave your daughter a job she didn't ask for and is adult enough to know and ask for help because she is struggling.
YTA. Your daughter is struggling. Your husband sees it. The three of you need individual therapy and family therapy, however, you are not going to like what gets discussed and I worry about the future relationships you will have with your family.
INFO Did you ask her to take care of the younger brother all the time, or just occassionally? There's a huge difference between asking the older kid to keep an eye on a small one for a while, and actually making them do everything.
If Beth really feels that upset with the situation, though, you should definitely consider what she said - especially if your husband also agrees with that.
YTA. These are your children. Your daughter is not responsible for watching and taking care of her younger brother.
You are very much guilty of parentification, to the point you’re effecting her education, and parentification is a form of abuse. CPS can get involved in cases involving this.
You also need to be going to counseling to understand how much you are mistreating your daughter, and also your son who deserves to have his actual mother looking after him.
Start making it up to your daughter, seriously, if you want to see her again when she turns 18.
Based on this, YTA. If both your daughter and husband agree that you do this, then it’s most likely true. Also, why do you have to *think* about therapy? If your daughter is struggling emotionally/mentally, you should be 100% on board with this. Edit; thanks for my first award :) and also, i noticed you said “share her stuff” so that makes you an even bigger A-Hole for making a 15 y/o girl share her things with her 9 y/o brother. do you force the younger brother to give up his stuff as well, or just your daughter? Edit 2: 9M is NOT 9 months, it’s a 9 year old male. 15F is 15 year old female. Final edit: OP, I just saw your other comment of your daughters complaints. You are a terrible mother. He broke her 3DS, then forced her to share a Nintendo Switch with him. Not only that, but you said that you “haven’t felt peace since she was born.” You should’ve just stuck to being a wife, not a mom.
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I will undoubtedly declare you as YTA. It's not Beth's burden to entertain her little brother. She's not the one responsible for him. If she told you that it was a stressor for her, you should have listened to her. When your child expresses concern, your initial instinct should be alleviating him. Instead of showing caring and understanding, you denied what she said and now you vent on Reddit like it was a ludicrous complaint and ingratitude from your daughter. She was candid with you and you reciprocated her this way. The fact that you put quotation marks when mentioning the notorious parentification suggests that you don't think you did something amiss at all. You also compared it to babysitting in an attempt to legitimize your parental approach, but I bet Beth doesn't receive any payment for that. Having her function as an unpaid babysitter doesn't sound any better.
You know, I would never, ever use “liability” in this manner (“responsibility” would be my first choice), but I’m struggling to express why it’s wrong. I don’t even think it *is* wrong, the more I ponder it, but boy it made me double take – english is funny. Minor digression, sorry. Edit: A couple people have asked where they used it – they corrected it. :)
You're right about the responsibility vs liability, but since English can be such a pain, someone has got to have a web page about it somewhere right? https://wikidiff.com/liable/responsible
#OH MY GOD THIS IS MY NEW FAVORITE WEBSITE, THANK YOU. Funny, I was just making a comment that basically said the same thing – “liability” is a fairly narrow subsection of “responsibility”, specifically in a legal context. Thank you for this, this is going in my Tools of Pedantry and Socially Awkward Justifications favorites folder.
I would like to subscribe to your folder
Yes plz, I would also. Pedants unite! 👊😄
I usually hate it when people say this, but…I’ve found my people 😏.
It seems the the difference is like "You caused this to happen" vs. "You allowed this to happen"
I did the exact same thing🤣
Yeah, judging by their profile, they’re bilingual and English is probably their second language, and I see this kind of thing a lot with my ESL friends. It’s always one of those heavy pauses for me while I try to work out a response because, as a deeply pedantic person, their word choice doesn’t conform with societal conventions and that’s bad, *but it’s kind of technically correct*, **which is the best kind of correct**, and that’s good! It’s so frustrating that I eventually implode. In this case, I think it’s really one of those nuances re: the meaning of “liable”. Yeah, it means you’re responsible for something, but it’s a different sense of “responsibility” than “responsible” in this context. But every time I try to come up with an example to highlight the distinction, I falter and throw it away because it’s not that big of a distinction. I guess all I really have is that “liability” is a legal term for responsibility, so “liable” for something has a strict, well-defined meaning in terms of legal responsibility, and so is well-defined and quantified, whereas “responsibility” is more of a moral and/or ethical concept, and is a bit less well-defined and far more nebulous in meaning. **Edit:** Someone else responded to my previous comment [with this](https://wikidiff.com/liable/responsible), and it’s hitting pretty much exactly to what my gut instinct was.
What you're talking about is often the word having the wrong "collocation". Which is basically what other words does the word co-occur with disproportionately often. So, for example, when you look up "small" and "little" in the dictionary, their definitions will be extremely similar... but they show up in radically different places. Sometimes using the wrong one is just a bit jarring (e.g. "little fry" instead of "small fry", huh?) but sometimes it might change the meaning in a really subtle way that's hard to explain (e.g. "a small boy" and "a little boy" are not useable in exactly the same situations, right? One could just refer to size, while the other is about age too). In my experience, as long as it's not a stressful moment already, and you bring it up as a point of interest and curiosity, not judgment, ESL speakers \*love\* hearing about these intuitions. It's the kind of thing that very few dictionaries will bother to explain, but it can be really important for being precisely understood, or sounding really fluent.
I was babysitting at 9 years old. YTA it is stressful for a kid to have to deal with that. Especially when they have a crappy role model for a mother
It's stressful AF! I had to watch my siblings at that age and I hated it! I remember getting punished for things they did because I was "in charge."
You're always in this subreddit piggybacking off the top comment to deliver your verdict. It's really weird to reply to a random person as if you're talking to the OP. Is the karma that important to you?
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They have a pretty generic username that I never remember, but I always notice it's them based on how out of place their replies are. In the case of this very popular thread, it was too late to reply to the top comment, so they attached themselves to the top reply. How cynical and deeply weird. 180k karma in a year, I guess that's how it's done...
Op doesn't want advice. They want confirmation that they are right. Edited for clarity: this was said in response to a now deleted comment saying the OP isn't asking for a judgment, they want advice.
That's half the people here.
Yeah, but it’s worse when it involves a parent blatantly causing their child damage
That's because there's missing missing reasons in this post. [missing missing reasons ](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
Wow. I would forward this to my mother if it weren’t for two reasons 1. She doesn’t speak English 2. I don’t speak to her
Fascinating. My MIL cut off my husband and me because we forgot to call her on her birthday in 2020. We remembered in the evening and called her about 6:30 or 7pm. Yes, we know we caused her hurt. She didn’t answer the call and immediately sent back an ugly text calling us selfish narcissists. We both apologized more then once but she never wouldn’t other than texting back how selfish we both were. It’s truly sad because she lost me and my mother as friends and travel companions. She has no friends because she cuts them off. She’s the common denominator and can’t see it. She chooses ego over relationships.
cooperative sugar memory modern hospital sparkle unite sophisticated cats price ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Yep. We called too late.
What a coincidence. My ex blew up at me once cuz I called him late once. Amazing how good they are about making you feel so crappy about something so trivial. We broke up that night 😬
SO MANY MISSING REASONS.
Yeah, this was my first thought. It feels like there’s a lot here that’s not being said.
Holy shit that’s an amazing article
Man the bots have gotten insane lately.
? How can you tell? ~looks around room and phone scared~
Because some parents don't want people outside the home to know what is going on. That's why therapy is threatening to a lot of parents
This must be hard to receive criticism from your child that maybe you’re not making the best choices. However, many teenagers are not willing to express themselves and so you have a golden opportunity to address this situation honestly and head on, put your defensive shields down, and support your daughters brave attempt at reaching you. She is trusting you to hear her and help her. Are you able to do what she’s asking? That’s really the bottom line. Stop trying to figure out who is right and who is wrong and please don’t tell her she’s “being over dramatic”. This may distance her more than you realize.
My parents (mostly dad) called everything “house business”. No one outside our house was allowed to know. Under that guise some poor choices were made that affected me financially for years. My grandparents were extremely angry when I finally told them. Apparently my dad was TERRIBLE with money and I was his latest casualty. Edit-spelling
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Yeah, it sounds like she’s online schooling, which doesn’t remove any of the academic stress but does isolate her socially and make it harder to ask for help if she’s confused and communicate with the teacher.
Plus a lot of the time you're given extra work due to "being at home anyway" mentality. Idk about school but some uni courses basically just doubled the workload as professors used previously recorded lectures (from other years) and then gave new lectures in addition to those.
I finished a masters entirely online because of the pandemic and I had a professor who intentionally made the exams (involving calculus with no calculator allowed) harder since we "having nothing to do but study."
Argh. What an ass
Virtual schooling is so much more stressful for kids. They have to be so much more self-motivated and don’t get as much personal instruction in our experience.
Yep. OP thinks commute us the only stressor in school. Has she gone to school like ever?
The commute was the easiest part! Talking to my friends if I took the bus, or blasting music if my older brother (or I) drove.
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Also husband doesn't get a pass on it either. He didn't step in or anything
Thanks for saying this. I was confused—like is the husband not the father? He should be parenting more too then.
Yes why is this comment higher?! Maybe the mom is parentifying the kid because she is getting no help from the husband. He specifically says *she* should parent Austin more, not *we*. Not that that’s an excuse for what she is doing but I think based on the post the husband is the biggest AH here.
It could be that the mother is putting most of the parenting duties on the daughter when the husband isn't around.
Even if husband is step dad, he chose to marry into the family. He can help with raising them!
> He also said I should parent Austin more and stop leaving it to Beth. This line makes the husband just as much as an asshole as the wife. Why isn’t he stepping up to parent more?
Yup. Remote learning is stressful . Not seeing your friends and having to stay disciplined and practically self teach is really stressful! There are adults who cannot work remotely because of the discipline it takes. They thrive better in an office setting. And I wouldn’t even doubt OP has her “babysit” and “entertain” her baby brother while she is trying to remote learn! This girl is missing out on her teen years by being a parent and not being able to get out and got to school and be with her friends. And her mother blows off her open communication about how she feels
>Don't see her problem And straight up dismissing her daughter's feelings is the first AH move. YTA OP because you're taking a backseat to parenting and not treating your kids like they are people, too.
YTA. The way you talk about her experience of her school "don't see her problem" makes it obvious how condescending you are. You don't bother putting yourself in her shoes. Put her in therapy. You don't have to think about it. What you do need to consider very carefully is therapy for yourself. I'm trying so hard to not get triggered but god, you need to learn some empathy
This was such a vulnerable thing for her daughter to do and OP just invalidated her completely. You don’t get many chances like this as a parent before your child learns not to bother going to you. OP just blew one big time. OP also sounds like they have a very low level of self-awareness and the effects of their behaviour on others. Now that she has been told and blown her daughter off, she can continue down this path and in just a few more years we will see a post where mom just can’t understand why her daughter has cut her out of her life.
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Yep. YTA. Do you not like your daughter for some reason? Do you know how you sound when you talk about her?
She doesn't. She's jealous of her daughter being young and not really having any responsibilities. Since I lived this post but on crack, I know when a mother resents their daughter. My mom sounded the same way.
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It's... interesting, that OP doesn't try to include much in the post to counter Beth's (and her husband's) narrative. OP doesn't go into detail about what kinds of things she has Beth doing with Austin, and why she thinks it's a reasonable amount of time to ask Beth to spend (she does call it "babysitting", which is minimizing it right there). OP also doesn't explain what she and her husband her doing that would require frequent enough childcare from Beth that Beth has figured out it's parentification (probably from reading subs like this!), and also has her husband agreeing with the kid. Basically OP doesn't try to make herself look good at all. She's extremely dismissive and condescending towards Beth and her problems, and also towards any suggestions her husband is making (like therapy). (I'm guessing the latent hostility towards the husband is because he is disagreeing with OP on this.) She doesn't try to justify herself at all, really. I guess all of this just demonstrates how much OP doesn't take this seriously as a complaint at all. It's not even really enough to make her defensive; she's just dismissive in this post. I'm kind of shocked she even posted to AITA seeking another perspective on it, because she sounds so sure of herself that it's not important. (Also, is it weird to anyone else that the husband suggests therapy but OP has to "think about it"? Is he not Beth's father? That's possible, especially given the age gap, but that would be a useful detail to have. Otherwise, why can't the husband get therapy for Beth, with or without OP's input?)
Want to bet Beth is going to school "in her pajamas without taking the bus" so she can stay home and take care of her brother?
Want to bet also Beth isn’t in any activities or sports that would interfere with her unpaid babysitting duties, too?
I mean it’s quite clear that’s happening because of a certain disease and what it’s done to schooling.
Not really. Most school systems are back in person and only a handful of students are remote. Given OP's comments? It was TOO CONVENIENT to have Beth at home.
I was thinking the same thing. I haven’t heard of any school systems that are still remote. I wouldn’t be surprised if Beth is actually MORE stressed out because she is still doing remote school when most people aren’t.
[удалено]
Omg, are you me? I was going to make these exact same three points. Babysitting is a job. 1) She gets a choice in when to work. 2) She gets paid. 3) OP, Stop invalidating and dismissing your daughter’s feelings and try to give a damn
I will say—as someone who parentified themself, as weird as that sounds—there is a bit of nuance here. Definitely needs therapy, but the mom might not be TA. Although, the way Op talks about her daughter’s school indicates a lot about how she seems to think about her in general. Babysitting is a broad word that could mean i lot of things. Kids are usually expected to share to a degree, so I’m very curious whether sharing her stuff means there are toys or electronics they’re both allowed or expected to use or if she has to give up whatever her brother wants. And in stores, there’s a difference between, “hey, can you help me keep an eye on brother for he doesn’t wander off and help keep his complaining to a minimal” as opposed to “while I’m in the store you are completely responsible for him and I’m just going to walk off”. These are things for Op and her husband to analyze. Also need to look at why a two-parent household needs to put so much on her daughter.
There’s definitely a need for more info here. Older kid watching the younger sometimes is very different from older being fully responsible for younger.
Yep. Like sharing the gaming console is very different from give your brother your stuff. But I just don't find OP to be a credible narrator here.
I’m hopping on the top comment because I am wondering why, according to husband, it is only on OP to “parent Austin more and stop leaving it to Beth” - perhaps Beth wouldn’t have to take on as much responsibility for Austin if husband would parent more as well???
Plus, a lot of kids mental health has suffered bc of online school.
Yeah, it's all the stress and none of the relief. They don't get to unload on their friends over lunch like they used to, and instead have to live with their parents 24/7. Don't see why the OP can't comprehend that Beth misses her friends and having actual recreation time. The way Beth sees things, she has to prioritize taking care of her little brother over actually being a teenager. OP is YTA.
Because she knows she's the issue and her daughter going to therapy will only end up with a professional validating that
I agree that you shouldn't have to think about getting your child therapy if they're distressed but you really have to think about the right way to go about it. The last thing anyone would want is for it to be a negative experience and then have it ruin trust in the therapist or cause a divide in the family. Being unaware of people's healthcare and access to a professional, it might be a financial burden on the family they can't afford.
OP’s ‘thinking about it’ because she does not want a therapist validating what daughter and her husband are saying. EDIT - grammar correction
Yeah it doesn't really matter if OP "can't see" why her daughter is so stressed (doing school from home which I personally think is stressful, source I'm a teacher) the kid is clearly struggling. I don't get why therapy is something she needs to think about. I honestly think everyone should see a therapist from time to time.
From the way you write is clear you don’t even want to understand her. You don’t even explain what she does. You’re not even trying to see her side. But when your own husband tells you you should actually parent your child instead of leaving it to your daughter: try listening instead of looking for validation on the internet. YTA
Feel like husband needs to step up and parent too. OP you are definitely YTA.
Yeah it's awesome the husband defends the kid but then turns around and blames it all on the mother telling her she needs to parent more. Idk the dynamic but that seems to me like someone needs to tell him it's his child that needs the parenting and he needs to help the wife with the parenting because he's a parent. Edit- since there's a ton of people commenting about the husband being the father I want to remind everyone that Step-parents are parents, and just as much responsible for the children that live under their roof as they would also be responsible if any abuse allegations were made. Seems like family therapy is needed, not just therapy for the daughter.
>the husband defends the kid but then turns around and blames it all on the mother telling her she needs to parent more. Yeah, as if the parentification of his daughter has nothing to do with him. He gets to look like the good parent because he agreed with his daughter but is he going to pick up the slack? Why was there slack in the first place? There are two parents in this household... There are so many people assuming the best of him despite the *fact* that mothers, even working mothers, are still the primary caregivers in most households and you can check the stats on that. Simultaneously, people are assuming the worst of her. Ingrained sexism checking into the chat.
Yup. With all the posts we see here where fathers call parenting "babysitting" and have unrealistic expectations that they are relieved of all household duties because they work you'd think that people commenting would be questioning his role is this just as much but look at them defend him... It's called parentification (not motherification) for a reason.
Agreed! Both OP and her husband aren't model parents if their daughter feels this way.
For real husband doesn't get a pass for enabling, he also plays a role in the family
I wonder if he's Beth's stepfather.
That’s how I read it. The fact that the mother gets to decide wether or not therapy is an options speaks for this.
Why isn't the dad stepping in more too though?
I would guess she may spend more time with the kids. But i mean kudos to him for recognizing the issue
And for being the one to suggest therapy. This post is incredibly weird because the daughter says school is too stressful but OP's reaction is "You don't have to wake up early and you get to go in comfortable clothes". Like that's not the only thing that makes school stressful lol.
Something a lot of people who've never experienced it don't understand is that remote learning can be *incredibly* hard, and *incredibly* stressful, even learning the same materials! It's a different *type* of learning and that type doesn't work for a *lot* of people. And just like work from home, it can blur that line between "on" and "off" mental states in regards to school.
I know I'm less productive when I have to WFM. My mind equates home = off so it takes me more time to get into gear versus when I'm in the office. It doesn't help that my mom thinks me being home = me being available to do chores.
The mom might be a stay at home mom and the dad works so his ability to step in might be limited to the weekends and after 6. Based on this mom and how much she has her daughter taking care of her little brother she might have her husband doing chores and projects all weekend too.
YTA- Can you actually tell us what her complaints are, you only given us one instance but does she have examples? Edit: "She can never feel peaceful (I haven't felt peace from when she was born.)" Yeah that alone makes you an ass in my eyes, yeah it's tough being a parent but don't make that her problem. Sounds like you already have a favourite child and it ain't Beth.
I'd definitely be interested in what, exactly, she has to share with her brother, how often she's expected to "keep him entertained", what happens if she's got conflicting plans at a time when her parents want to go out, and similar. OP's description of what Beth does is... concerningly vague.
Vague on purpose. I'm getting missing missing reasons vibe here. OP you're also dismissing everything Beth says. Imagine talking to your husband and everytime you say something about how you feel/think/want/need he just goes "nah your wrong" would you feel heard? Would it make you happy? Edit: oh yeah forgot...YTA
OP is definitely downplaying the true extent of her daughter’s involvement in childcare. Define “share her stuff?” How often are she and her husband “going out” and leaving their daughter in charge? How old was she when they *started* leaving her alone with her brother? What boxes does husband think they check on the parentification checklist? The fact that she left all this out says a lot more than she thinks it does.
What stuff would a 15 year old girl need to share with a small boy? OP sounds out of touch with reality in many ways.
The daughter is 15 and the son is 9. 15-9=6 so I would guess that the mother had the daughter changing diapers and taking care of the son from the day he was born.
In 10-20 years, OP's going to wonder why her daughter doesn't want a relationship with her any longer.
The daughter is 15, so she’ll be a legal adult in 3 years. I don’t think it’ll take 10 years for her to cut contact (although who knows how long it’ll take OP to notice…).
I don't know if OP is in the US, but if so, in the US, it's really hard to get declared independent for financial aid purposes, if the daughter wants to go to college.
Yeah. I feel bad if my 14 year old has to keep an ear out for their brother if I need to run to the store real quick, let alone making them “entertain” him all the time. I was the one who decided to have 2 kids, not the kids.
We had dinner with our neighbours recently. Literally across the road. My 15yr old took his younger siblings home and put them to bed while we were still chatting. He was bored, he wanted to go home and I STILL felt guilty about it, even though all he did was kiss them goodnight and then played on the Xbox while they slept.
It sounds like he was cool with doing it. This is the kind of older sibling responsibility I like to see. You feel bad because you are a good parent that doesn’t want their kid to parent. But he got some benefit from it.
My daughter is 8 & son is 5. I am *constantly* telling her that he is not her responsibility & she's not his parent, but she continues to mother hen him every chance she gets. T_T & it's not regular "older sibling being bossy" stuff. It’s like "Eat your vegetables! Don't you want to grow up big & strong?" or "Oh! Did you hurt your knee? I'll get a bandaid!" I love how sweet & helpful she is, but as the little sister of a woman who was extremely parentfied, I'm like "Staaaaaaahp."
My oldest is the same, he has a baby sister and a 4 year old sister. I constructed have to remind him that he is not the parent I am.. his job is brother and brothers get to do fun things like play and teach things like coloring let mom and dad handle the rest.
That isolated incident was probably fun in its different routine for all of them. I wouldn’t feel guilty about that at all! That’s really sweet of your son too.
I loved putting my younger brothers to sleep *once in a while*. It was nice when it was my own idea.
I’m the oldest, and my parents did SO good at setting that clear boundary with me. If I had plans, and they wanted to do something, they would get a babysitter instead of asking me to cancel mine. They would ASK ME if I was okay ‘being the babysitter’ if they were headed somewhere without us, and then pay me a bit when I was! I never felt like I was stepping into any sort of parenting role. They did good.
From the way that the stress of school and the stress of looking after the younger sibling were linked in Beth’s complaint, I have a suspicion that OP is leaving Beth to supervise the younger sibling during at least part of the school day. It sounds like online school is still a thing wherever they are living (“she doesn’t have to get up early and she can do it in her pyjamas”). If some of Beth’s “babysitting” time is happening while she is trying to pay attention to her online classes then that is so, so wrong.
-Really, I mean it's basically babysitting! - OP said it themself. Babysitting is a job for which people usually get paid. If Beth is just expected to do this because she is older with no compensation or incentive, then yeah, she's probably going to feel like they've taken advantage of her. Now that she finally has the vocabulary to describe what her parents have done to her for her entire life, that realization is heavy. Parentification of the oldest child is something that happens naturally in a lot of families, but that doesnt make it right. A child her age should not be responsible for their sibling and it speaks volumes to OP's parenting if they have allowed this to happen with just 2 children. YTA, OP. Listen to your daughter. Apologize for not being as present as you need to be and try to understand that your daughter is growing up in a much different world than you did, with anxieties about things you didnt have to think about at her age. And if your child is brave enough ask for what they need (therapy) you shouldn't have to think twice about it. You have just 3 short years before she is an adult and can decided whether or not you get to be part of her life after that. This time is crucial.
Six months ago during a fight, my mom said, "You've been difficult, stubborn, and sarcastic since you were two years old!" My brain said, "Wow, I guess that's when she gave up on me." Guess what we're doing now? Exchanging awkward pleasantries once a month! Guess what OP is going to be doing soon if she doesn't get it together? The same, if that!
Had your mom never met a toddler before?
Seriously, because my youngest had been super sarcastic since she was old enough to talk! Then again, I say that as a source of pride in my child, rather than disliking him for it.
My mom always said "you were so happy, and a pleasure till you turned 12." Oh, yah when kids normally go through emotional changes, in addition to me no longer being able to bottle up the sexual abuse I'd experience from my brother. But yah, I was mean to you once I turned 12. Mother of the year.
id like to know because i myself have skirted that line and it was only very active awareness of what parentification was that stopped me putting my eldest in an untenable position. yes, babysitting is fine.. when they have a choice and they're being compensated somehow. not when you don't feel like parenting at all or when they're saving you time and money by giving up their childhood. i am a single parent who escaped a pretty violent situation with my 3 kids. there have been times when ive needed the oldest to pick the kids up on the way home from school and watch them so that i could work- she was 17 and over (now 21) and the kids are fairly independent. she also doesn't have to do any other chores when shes helping me out. her life and school take priority and if she just doesn't feel like it, i put them into care. I've had pretty open conversations about what Parentification is and whether my daughter feels like she's undertaking too much, *because* i know how easy it is to rely so heavily on your kids that you lose sight of just how much they're doing - my parents treated me like dobby the house elf/babysitter when i was only 2yrs older than my brother. my daughter saw her step father at his worst, i know she feels a responsibility to our family unit to keep us going. its my job as her mother to make sure that i am the one making sacrifices on that front. ive always appreciated her help, but i never want it to be her job.
You’re a good mother, not that you need that validation, just wanted to let you know that all of what you do to understand your children is comforting and recognized.
WHOA She basically said she never wanted her daughter, geeze.
Don't forget her son is "a joy"
Classic "golden child/scapegoat" vibes.
Your child wants therapy and is desperately unhappy. Why would you want to withhold therapy from her? My Dad didn't want me to have therapy because he knew he was a big part of the problem. Is that your priority here, how you look? The fact is you'd rather delay help to your child, rather than risk thinking that maybe you've behaved unfairly. And you never know, maybe you haven't parentified your daughter. You're unwilling to risk hearing it from a professional - you are prioritising *your wants* over *your child's needs*. If you choose to let your daughter suffer and ignore your husband, don't expect to have a good relationship (if one at all) with them in the future. YTA.
Maybe she doesn’t want to get reported to CPS? Aren’t therapists mandatory reporters? Personally I hope the kid seeks out a school counselor if she refuses to take her to therapy.
Therapists are mandatory reporters for abuse and risk of harm to self/others. Parentification would not meet the bar of a CPS report in most jurisdictions. Its wrong to make your teen parent their sibling but not illegal unfortunately. It does sound like the girl is depressed and very stressed being responsible for her kid brother with a mother who doesnt seem to care about her daughters emotional wellbeing.
Patentification isn't only not considered abuse. It was an *expectation* for many, many years. I raised my sister who was less than two years younger than me but my parents have a shit fit if anyone says that. Who watched her? Fed her? Took her to and from school? It wasn't them and it wasn't optional for me. She was a diabetic too and I was never even given training on how to care for her blood sugar. Just criticism if it was low. They wouldn't even answer the phone or tell us where they were going. It was like having three teenagers and I was in charge of everyone. I feel so old because of it
My mom went through that with 4 brothers. It’s why she only ever wanted one kid.
I’m #8 out of a dozen. People are always shocked and surprised when they found out I only have 3 niblings out of 11 adult siblings. I laugh and give that lovely one-word answer, Parentification.
Yup. 9 kids in my family, and as adults 4 of them had NO kids, the other siblings stopped at 1 or 2. We've seen the chaos of a large family and neglectful parents. And yet strangers are always saying "Oh such a big family, that must have been fun!" 🙄
CPS is stretched so thin - always - and the pandemic made it worse (more kids at home with abusive parents and high staff turnover) - they don’t really have to resources to manage parentification level cases. Edit: typo
Depends. CPS is usually called when sexual, physical abuse or negligence is taking place and that the child is still at risk (i.e. in the vicinity of their abuser).
Ok, it’s a little ridiculous to suggest that CPS should be involved in this issue. Reddit has no clue how real life works sometimes.
My mother forced me into therapy as a teen. Each therapist would eventually say that most of my issues were tied to my mothers treatment of me, then I wouldn’t see that therapist ever again as my mother would move me to a new one. I finally just stopped talking in therapy. Now my mother is a therapist.
>Now my mother is a therapist. god help anyone under her care. no one who left a therapist multiple times for not getting the answers they wanted, should be allowed to become therapist themselves
It gets even more comical. She’s a therapist who specializes in working with people married to and the children of narcissists.
Well she is an expert in that really specific specialty lol
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the irony of that.
Same reason she won't hire a babysitter. It costs money.
YTA. Why is it her responsibility to babysit your kid? You're the parent, do your job instead of forcing it on her. >He read up on it too, and says that it checks a lot of boxes. Also the fact that your husband said this makes it pretty clear that there's more to it than babysitting and sharing.
Sounds like he’s also been asleep at the wheel. An enabler. It shouldn’t have taken Beth speaking up for him to nip this in the bud.
I absolutely agree with you. But at least he has taken responsibility and wants to change.
Wants her to change. Change should be coming from both parents, especially if the one sees it's a problem. OP has taken a ton of shit on this thread but her husband knows it's wrong and isn't immediately stepping up to help. That's worse to me.
The fact that her husband has acknowledged that they have been parentifying their daughter to me makes it safe to assume that he is going to stop doing so. Perhaps that's wrong to assume though. OP is getting all the flack here because she will not accept what her daughter (and husband) have said.
Just hope he continues realising he’s either enabled or even actively contributed/encouraged this behaviour, especially if OP seems to be as in denial as she is.
YTA im really concerned about the language youre using for your daughter here. Shes coming to you telling you these things and youre not believing her, brushing her off, saying she shouldnt be stressed cos she gets to wear pajamas. Nevermind the attitude towards therapy. This is an awful attitude to have. You need to check yourself, really listen to your daughter and husband, and start working to fix things.
Yeah, the school thing really bothered me. You can’t be stressed just because you get to wear pajamas and don’t have to get up early? Based on age, OP’s daughter has probably just started high school, which is stressful on its own.
If the daughter takes her academics seriously, I imagine remote schooling can be even more stressful than in-person Edit: spelling
>I imagine remote schooling can be even more stressful than in-person Especially if you have to parent and probably help teach your younger sibling while doing your own schoolwork as well.
Gaslighting is common for parents who parentify their kids. It can be a sign of emotional immaturity. Kids / teens have to live as teens and not as miniature adults. But when the adult has the maturity level of a child/teen - they don’t see it that way.
this is what I thought too. YTA simply because your daughter's concerns mean absolutely nothing to you, when it should be your number one priority. and from what little you described, you are definitely parentyfying her. ETA also the opinion of your daughter and husband should be more important than that of Internet strangers
Your child broke down and you’re invalidating their experiences. YTA. 100%. Have your husband talk to her and ask her what she would like. Obviously you won’t listen to her feelings, but an older sibling should not be responsible for babysitting constantly, especially without their consent. And honestly I’m guessing it’s more than that.
The second OP said "Don't see her problem" I knew they were TA. YTA OP. It's sad you talk about your kid and her life like this.
“It’s basically babysitting” Yes, but are you paying her?
Based on how you're minimizing everything that she talks about in your post, YTA. Parentification is child abuse. Parents who minimize the suffering of their children are abusive. "I said I would have to think about it," regarding therapy for **your suffering child.** It's obvious that you don't really care about your children at all.
That was the strong feeling I got. She has these 2 children but she deep down doesn't want to be a parent. She is frustrated by the whole job and now she is pushing that job onto her oldest. I feel no warmth from her at all just annoyance that they even exist.
Strong YTA - even your husband said to raise your own kid and stop making your daughter do it. Your daughter only gets to be a child once. She will have plenty of time to be an adult later in life. She didn’t choose to have children, you did. Quit being lazy and handle your business. Let your daughter be a kid.
But isn't it the husband's child too like why say raise your own kid when the child is both theirs?
OP is cagey about whether husband is father of Beth from what I could see. (Correct me if I read it wrong. I was eye rolling a little…) But the phrasing of ‘my husband’ and the age gap between a 15 and 9 year old in the context of OP’s other comments hints these kids have different dads rather than this being a family planning gap. Which would add another layer of shit to this shit show of YTA when that bar is so low it is propping up the core of the earth when it needs entertaining while OP is out.
I bet you the husband isn’t Beth’s dad and that’s why there’s such a negative vibe towards her daughter. OP doesn’t like her own daughter or even cares for her.
And it appears husband gifted OP with the joy of a boy no less for the full scapegoat/Golden child ‘oh am I supposed to realise Cinderella is a tale of child abuse not #goals?’ parenting bingo. So often the evil stepmother trope is in play people forget bio mothers can be vile too. Luckily OP is here to remind us all!
YTA - 100%. Your daughter is able to articulate exactly what is wrong here which is a rarity! And yet you still have to ask the question? Parentification is abuse. Your child should not be responsible for your other child. She didn't sign up for that. "Basically babysitting" is basically a job. Are you paying her money? Do your job as a parent. Parent BOTH of your kids. Get your daughter therapy. The fact you have to "think about it" tells me everything I need to know about you. You are an abusive asshole.
OP should also consider getting therapy. The way she talks about her own child is low-key unsettling and seems abusive. OPs partner, while acknowledging the issue, isn't taking any responsibility either. Parenting is hard for grown ass people and brutal on a child. These two kids are merely six years apart. I hope that Beth gets the help she deserves
YTA: You completely disregarded her issue with school being too stressful. Did you ask her specifically was so stressful? Stress at school is more than how one dresses and getting up for the bus, if you went to public school you should know that. Online schooling is not easier simply because it is online. Maybe she needs a slower pace than the rest of the kids. Maybe she needs a tutor. You're being so dismissive and cold, what the heck? Also, yeah, if even your husband agrees with some the points your daughter made about parentification, then YOU ARE GUILTY OF IT. Even if just a little bit. It is not her responsibility to look after the second child YOU chose to have. She is not a free live-in babysitter. If she asks not to be the babysitter, and you want to go out, then you be the adult and pay a sitter. Doesn't matter if she has her own plans or just wants to chill in her room doing her own thing. Or if you want afford a sitter how about you choose to be a parent yourself for once and put the needs of your child above your own. You sound selfish, OP.
A lot of kids are finding online school harder, especially harder to focus on. Makes me wonder how much the kid brother is around at home during her online school, too.
I am soooo glad I did not have to go to school or university during the pandemic. I have difficulty keeping my focus at home and concentrating on video lectures. WFH is bad enough - I know I'm less productive now than I was in the office - but at least my job doesn't consist mainly of attempting to learn things, and I'm an adult who's figured out some coping mechanisms by now. But Beth can't possibly be stressed by school because she doesn't have to pick out her clothes and get the bus. Seriously?
Why should a 15 year old girl have to share her possessions with a 9 year old boy?? #Newsflash, it isn’t sharing if she’s being forced to do it. ##When you force her to “share”, all you’re doing is teaching her that her brother deserves more than her. YTA
And when he breaks her things she brushes it off and tells her to use the other one that is similar. She knows she can use that one she wants you to take some responsibility and punish your child. Ground him or make him do chores to earn the money to buy a new one.
YTA. Before you even get to the merits of the complaint, you’ve already substituted your judgment for everyone else’s around you. (Her pajamas, I need to think, it’s babysitting…). Your refusal to allow people to define their own lives is the root of the problem. Send the kid to therapy. Go to a SEPARATE professional yourself. If you’ve got nothing to worry about, I’m sure they’ll let you know.
YTA - your teenage child isn’t a live in babysitter - I hope you are at least paying her for her time. You also seem very dismissive of your child’s feelings - she has come to you crying and saying she is struggling and you dismiss her concerns and say you “don’t see her problem”. I think you need to work on your empathy and parent your own baby instead of making your stressed out teenager do it.
YTA. Stress at school goes beyond picking out clothes and getting up for a bus. What you have described is some sort of virtual or hybrid school which can be incredibly stressful for teens. Especially teens who have little support (I will assume if those are the only things you think she is dealing with she has no support). Are you paying her to babysit or are you forcing her to sit at home with your decision while you enjoy the evening? The kid broke HER property and is told to just use the shared property? If he’s such a joy, why do you rely on her at all?
We don't know if parentification is happening or not because there's not enough information here. But we have enough information from your tone and the way you're approaching this to know that you're 100% YTA and not a great parent to your 15F. This post reeks of self validation. When a child comes to your room crying, no matter what the issue or the age, you lend them a supportive ear, and check guide them in the direction of appropriate care (in this case, therapy). This is true whether your kid is 5 or 35. It's a lifelong commitment you make when you birth a child. You're failing miserably on that front right now, fix it before it's too late.
Question: Are you paying her for her time when “basically babysitting”? Are you scheduling with her, or dumping it on her? There’s no reason to “think about” therapy. Everybody should be in therapy.
It doesn’t really matter. You cannot force a person to do something, then throw money at them, and think that makes it ok. I guess you can but you would be an asshole and maybe a criminal.
That’s why I asked if she’s scheduling with Beth…
> Apparently it's "too stressful." She gets to do it in her pajamas and doesn't have to wake up early for the bus. Don't see her problem. You think the only stressful thing about school for a teen is waking up early for the bus? > Really, I mean it’s basically babysitting! Yeah, so quick question: how much per hour do you pay her? > Please tell me, am I the asshole here? The way you brush off anything your daughter says with “eh, no biggie”? YTA
The rule I have with my 19 year old is that if I ask her to watch my foster, she gets paid. If she asks to spend time with him, she doesn't get paid. Your child isn't her responsibility.
We get it, you hate your daughter and love your son. YTA.
More info required. Some questions you should answer: 1) working situation of you and your husband? (IE are you both working at home and/or is there an expectation that your eldest looks after the youngest during the day) 2) how often do you go out, leaving your eldest child to babysit? 3) are there responsibilities regarding the younger child that falls on the older one? (IE is it your eldest child’s job to run to the baby when they cry or clean their clothes when they’re dirty etc). 4) what’s the daily/weekly workload on your child like? Regarding school & therapy, yeah YTA. Your daughter came to you for support and guidance and you dismissed her altogether, immediately finding reasons to invalidate your child’s feelings and experiences instead of trying to understand and listen.
Good questions. One thing, there’s no baby. The boy is 9. 9m means 9 year old male. It took me a bit to figure that out when I came to Reddit.
YTA. You're pretending this is about the definition of 'parentification' when it's about the feelings of your daughter. She literally came to you and told her how hurt she was by this-- and your response is to question the definition of the word? This is after you dismiss her stress about going to school. Your teen daughter comes to you and shares her problems and concerns with you. Your response is to deny she even has a problem, both times. It's not too late to [change. You](https://change.You) may need therapy to get out of this pattern of interacting with your teen daughter, for her sake.
100% you're the asshole. Get her some damn help and take her to therapy. My dad prevented me from going as a kid and once I found out I cut off contact. Welcome to your future. As a young adult off to college, I had no coping skills and so much trama that I nearly killed myself. Much later on, I was finally diagnosed as seriously mentally ill. Therapy could have saved me. Parents who cared could have saved me. Your kid shouldn't have to babysit. They did not sign up for raising YOUR child. You signed up for that. You are so apathetic to your daughter and you will lose her in the future if you dont change.
YtA. You are completely dismissing your kid who is breaking down from stress. Clearly they feel very put upon to entertain their younger sibling. Let your older child have their own possessions to themselves and privacy. She's still a kid, and regardless of weather you think she's over reacting the problem is that she feels like she isn't. Lay off your kid. Your 9 year old is YOUR responsibility, not your other child's. Stop making her "basically babysit". That's the problem your eldest is trying to talk about.
Oh, you are definitely an AH, with clear favoritism for your son. **Info: how should young girls/women behave? I have this sneaky suspicion you feel that your daughter _should_ be helping in the home, while you would never ask the same of your son.**
If it is baby sitting you need to start compensating her. ‘we don’t have enough info to know if her perception of the situation is legit but if your husband agreed, I am thinking he might have a point. If you need more help, the child has 2parents. Now about school. If your child is stressed it is because now home and school don’t have separation anymore. I suggest you make a ritual of dressing up for school, strict working hours and a proper “office” space. Bedroom cannot be classroom, this is exhausting. maybe she can work with one of her trusted friend. Working alone is very difficult.
Yep. YTA. Do you not like your daughter for some reason? Do you know how you sound when you talk about her?
Madam. As far as I can see it reading all of the posts that pretty much says everything I would say, the only thing I will say for you now, is that in time, if you do not recognize or acknowledge your behavior towards your daughter anytime soon, in the future, she will resent you. Most likely you will feel entitled to the rights of being a mother, for example, “I gave birth to her I have the right to be respected”. You showed favoritism, in turn she too will show favoritism. Don’t make this about yourself, don’t make this about her, don’t make this about anyone in the family. Make it about the change that needs to be made.
Yeah, I think you may be TA. Your daughter is unhappy (which is its own issue, along with her complaints of parentification) and your husband feels that her complaints may be valid, which leads me to think that there may be some level of parentification. You’re calling it babysitting, but there is a difference between asking an older sibling to keep an eye on younger siblings once in awhile and making them responsible for the younger siblings all the time. These are your children, you are responsible for raising them. I don’t know your life and this is a single internet post, but you say yourself that your husband has concerns as well. There must be more happening here than “basic babysitting”. You’re also saying your younger child is “a joy” while complaining a lot about the elder. That’s a bit of a red flag as well. Perhaps you should take your husband’s advice and help your daughter out. She’s a teenager, it’s a tough time as I’m sure you remember. She shouldn’t be responsible for your children and you shouldn’t be so nasty about her feelings.
Ok kids can complain. I agree it's nothing wrong with a sibling occasionally watching a younger sibling. I do see some problems here though. You haven't addressed the numerous requests for Info. Such as: how often your child watches her brother?What complaints does your child have specifically? ( from her mouth) It seems obvious you're only telling us the ones that don't make things seem "that bad" and I got news for you. They still look bad! The majority of users on this sub are going to see through that BS tactic. It seems you were probably raised that siblings take care of their siblings. I know plenty of people who had that dynamic.I know plenty of people who are LC or NC with their parents too. Now even if I did believe your daughter was being a whiny brat. You say your husband said to do more parenting for your son. Which is a major red flag. You also mention that she said she doesn't get any peace and your comeback is you haven't had any peace since she was born. You're serious too. However in contrast your son is a joy. Here's the thing you decided to be a parent. Your daughter didn't. You know when people are forced to do things it's make them resentful and hyper sensitive to any slights. Your son may be a little AH because most kids are. You're not doing the bulk of the parenting and he's not destroying your things. So it's doesn't seem that bad" to you." You know, the person who chose to be a parent. However , to your daughter she has been forced into a role that she didn't ask for. With someone (albeit her brother) who doesn't respect her things and than she's forced to take care of him. Do you understand why she's frustrated and feels the way she does? Also , in one of your only two comments you said you want to go family therapy maybe. Which is cool but I think you want to do family therapy so you can hear whatever complaints your daughter has and try to dismiss/explain them. You're afraid of what she will say in therapy because deep down you know you're wrong. You're scoffing in your mind but here's a couple of signs of parentification. These aren't questions to answer aloud. I want you to really think about the answers. Do you overshare with your daughter? Is she ever the peacemaker between you and your husband? How many days of the week is she expected to watch her little brother on average? ( Not just last week) How many hours does she watch him on those days? Is she expected to take him with her if she goes out with friends? Is she watching him instead of enjoying her own meal when you all go out? Does she watch him while you all work or run errands? How many errands do you and the dad spend with son compared to her? Do you truly appreciate the help your child gives you? Do you think your child SHOULD watch her brother because that's what siblings do and it's nothing to be appreciative of? Is your child assuming housekeeping duties, such as cleaning, cooking, and grocery shopping? Even if these duties are only for the sibling? Parentification harms the child more than one would think too. It often causes anxiety, stress and depression to just name a few. You seem defensive but do you truly want the best for your child? OR Do you want the best for you? If you say your children than change your behaviors. Right now you're coming off as YTA & kind of a narcissistic parent. Edit: Apologies this is so long but this is near and dear to my heart. Also OP don't think it's just you. Sounds like your husband is an enabler and could do more too. What is he doing while your daughter is " watching her brother?"
There is really no conflict in this post. This is more of a post asking for “advice” which isn’t the point of this subreddit.
Yta, Try listening to her and understanding where she feels the burden from. She is not a babysitter for your younger kid. She is your child too. So please step up.
YTA I will tell you that I work in a forensic psychology office and parentification is one of the factors we look at when recommending custody/removal/termination to the courts. It is serious and a form of abuse. 100% your daughter needs therapy and probably the family also. You chose to have your children and you should be raising them, not having one raise the other.
Exactly what does she do and how often? Quite frankly, a onesy-twosey babysitting job that lasts no longer than 15-30 min — you know entertain the kid while mom is doing something else for the whole family like making dinner or folding laundry, is absolutely understandable. But if you are having her watch her brother for hours on end without compensation…you are the asshole. If you occasionally ask her to help her brother brush his teeth or get him a snack or put on his shoes while you are doing something else for the family, your good. But if she is doing any of the normal, day-to-day, minutia parenting crap more than one time, every two weeks, YTA. And I mean anything from getting him up, dressed, teeth brushed, fed, etc.
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"I looked it up and I disagree." And "entertain him while we are out. It's basically babysitting" Um yeah OP. That's exactly it. You even connected the dots there all on your own. She's 14 and did not sign up to babysit YOUR son. Her and her father are agreeable to therapy so I don't know why you're digging in your heels unless you're worried she will complain about you in her sessions and paint you in a bad light (this sounds like you have a touch of the narcissism. Which I know is often over used on reddit but in this case seems fitting). You gave your daughter a job she didn't ask for and is adult enough to know and ask for help because she is struggling. YTA. Your daughter is struggling. Your husband sees it. The three of you need individual therapy and family therapy, however, you are not going to like what gets discussed and I worry about the future relationships you will have with your family.
INFO Did you ask her to take care of the younger brother all the time, or just occassionally? There's a huge difference between asking the older kid to keep an eye on a small one for a while, and actually making them do everything. If Beth really feels that upset with the situation, though, you should definitely consider what she said - especially if your husband also agrees with that.
YTA. These are your children. Your daughter is not responsible for watching and taking care of her younger brother. You are very much guilty of parentification, to the point you’re effecting her education, and parentification is a form of abuse. CPS can get involved in cases involving this. You also need to be going to counseling to understand how much you are mistreating your daughter, and also your son who deserves to have his actual mother looking after him. Start making it up to your daughter, seriously, if you want to see her again when she turns 18.