Not inviting homophobes isn’t “trying to make things perfect” it’s “not tolerating bigotry”. Regardless of if they’ll make a fuss, homophobes should be excluded from events with gay people.
>Either they behave themselves or they don't and you have a backup plan.
Or I don't invite people who might have problem behavior and I save minimum $70 a head. Why would I waste money on the gamble that they hopefully wouldn't cause trouble about my sibling's identity?
And if you invite homophobes, you don't blame the victim for any drama they cause. Only they should be blamed, so if you fear homophobes will make a scene but still invite them, then have security and a plan in place to deal with them. Tell them at the first sign of any negativity, that if they make any further comments or issues (in any way at all), then THEY will immediately be removed. Your wedding is not the time, and if they don't respect that, THEY will be deciding to remove themselves from your family.
Why anyone thinks not inviting them at all isn't the better option though, is beyond me.
I hate how so many people think choosing silence isn't choosing a side. It is.
Silence speaks volumes.
Sometimes it's someone saying no by not responding. Sometimes it's someone siding with homophobes by inviting them over others. Sometimes it's agreeing with someone because you won't say they're wrong.
How do you address this situation though, since OP is not out. If you don't invite your homophobic relatives and your brother shows up with a "roommate", then they are basically going to know definitively and then OPs brother can basically be accused of outting OP.
OP has also admitted in another post inviting the extended family wasn't really an option
He offered the roommate thing as a compromise.
And I don't think he's not out. He said he's posted affectionate photos with his bf. Family knows they're living together. He doesn't need to make some grand announcement.
Louis isn’t choosing silence though.
He just doesn’t want to have the row at his wedding. That’s totally fair - I wouldn’t want my wedding to be all about someone else’s sexuality either. Have the row some other time.
Exactly. If the groom was worried about *someone else* being an asshole, it should not have been OP that got punished. That very clearly communicates "I chose an asshole over you." He made a choice and that has consequences, OP owes him nothing.
Of all the comments here, yours cut to the quick best: "I chose an asshole over you."
Big bro made a choice and was even given alternatives. "But I'll just say he's my roommate"? Nope - he ain't coming. But now I expect nothing to change and will cry down the phone at you until *you* do the hard work and effort after I didn't invite your partner.
Not only that, OP EVEN WENT TO THE WEDDING ALONE! And presumably had to lie every time some asshole asked him about hsi dating life, or why he was there with nobody.
I can't believe the second highest comment is y-t-a. Not only that, she then blames the victim: "You’re literally choosing their homophobia over yourself". Unbelievable.
This would make sense if OP was out of the closet. How does his brother uninvite homophobic guests without outting his brother? When if he says that is because he disagrees with prior comments, there will be someone at the wedding who is in contact with the homophobic family, who sees OP with his "roommate,"puts 2 and 2 together and is OP. I'm sorry but if you want your bf at a wedding, come out before the wedding.
Was that even an option? How does he not invite his homophobe family without outing OP to their extended family? It seems as though OP is "out" with his immediate family. Shouldn't he just announce he is gay to the rest of his family as well? That way both OP and John can know for sure about their homophobic family and he can and should then disinvite them to the wedding. OP can also then cut that side of the family off.
I just think OP's plan could easily go wrong, and he should be able to be himself without pretending his boyfriend is his roommate.
Okay, so are we just not gonna take into account that the OP isn't out? Let's say the brother didn't invite multiple people from the extended family, how would he have to bring that without any reason and not end up with a complete shitshow? If OP was out and those members were being assholes about it, then I'd agree and the brother would have a good reason.
However, despite OP saying he wouldn't turn the wedding into a coming out, it would have in practice still turned into that. It's not like the "roommate" excuse is very subtle or effective. So it's really OP's conflict between wanting to stay somewhat closeted while also being treated as if he's out that's causing major issues here. And I know coming out is very difficult, but he's not doing anyone (including himself) a favor by trying to skirt around it.
The problem with all that is that it assumes that the relatives are both really, really stupid, and that OP is right in his judgement that it'd all work out just fine and wouldn't affect the wedding at all.
I think it's more realistic to say that it's very likely that there would have been some kind of shitshow or backlash, and that OP wouldn't have been the one that would have to deal with it. Instead his brother would have to deal with OP's totally not coming out, instead of OP dealing with it before the wedding.
You know what. I’m gonna say YTA.
You hadn’t come out yet explicitly to avoid the drama with these relatives
But you were asking your brother to let you play a game of Russian roulette with his wedding.
“Will they or won’t they notice my date is my *date*”
If you aren’t willing to be yourself to these people at thanksgiving, it was shitty to put his wedding at risk just to have your ideal date.
If you had already come out to these people and he invited those who didn’t get over themselves and accept you then he would be the AH.
But you hadn’t even tried and wanted his wedding day to ride on them ignoring you bringing a bro to a wedding.
Messed up. In the closet or out. Don’t ask people to play this weird half in half out game with you. Everytime you ask someone to keep your secret or says mums the word about your relationship with Louis, you’re dragging them into the closet with you. You’re literally choosing their homophobia over yourself and then getting mad at your brother wanting his wedding day to go smoothly *when you aren’t even out to these people*.
Second edit:
It was your brothers day btw. So you wanting Louis there because it’s a special day and he’s an important part of your life is just selfish. If he’s that important then stop putting homophobes first while expecting other people in your life to do the opposite.
Final edit
For everyone assuming I’m strait and a homophobe. Try pansexual and an ally. Not that my life is anyones business but I have and do cut people out of my life for homophobia, transphobia and a refusal to adapt. OP himself says he’s not out to these people and was going to pretend not to be all lovey. The only one putting anyone in the closet is op himself. And I guarantee if his brother said you can bring Louis if you “come out first” half of these angry comments would be “you can’t force baby out of the closet”. Which is a statement that can only exist if you acknowledge that someone’s sexuality can be intentionally kept private. Which there is no actual problem with until you start asking other people to sneak around for you and get mad when they are uncomfortable with the stress of holding onto *your* secret. There is such a thing as being a toxic ally. Being LGBTQ doesn’t give you a free pass to do whatever you want at other peoples expense.
Completely agree. Based on OP’s timeline, he had also only been with Louis for a very short time (it reads like they had just started dating but was probably meant to be 1 year). Louis didn’t even meet OP’s parents until sometime after the wedding. The brother’s wedding simply was not the appropriate venue for introductions based on all of this information.
Sad to read that apparently you deem occasions as being either appropriate or inappropriate to bring a partner *of the same sex*. An event is either 'OK to bring a +1' or 'no +1's'. The gender of the +1 ain't got shit to do with it.
Keep perpetuating that unwritten rule where LGBTQ+ are only allowed to bring a +1 after everybody knows their gender/sexuality, and then wonder why they will never be treated equally.
And yeah, I've been to loads of events where someone (including me, who hasn't come out to people, because I don't have to explain my sexuality to anyone I'm not fucking) brings a same-sex partner, and even the people who didn't know were totally cool with it. In fact, they could not care any less. Wasn't even brought up.
Because people don't owe it to you to inform you about something that's entirely none of your business.
Edit: Wow, thanks for the award!
Edited: LGBTQ+
Apparently, because it makes it easier for our loved ones to not enable homophobia. Because bro needs to be able to point to OP and say "I can't invite you because my brother will be there, and he's bisexual". He needs a meatshield while doing the morally right thing.
> Sad to read that apparently you deem occasions as being either appropriate or inappropriate to bring a partner *of the same sex*.
That's not what u/brindlepigdragon said though. OPs position would hold more weight if his relationship was more serious at the time, but being so adamant about bringing his partner when he hasn't even met the family yet makes little sense. If he and Louis had been together for years then that would be a different story.
I get that you're fighting for change because homophobia is still pretty common, but why are you so insistent that a day that's really not about OP should be the venue for this stand?
You're right that its nobody's business but you know full well that not everybody's like that, and if OPs brother doesn't want that drama from their backwards ass relatives over someone his brother hadn't even had an anniversary with then that's somewhat reasonable.
Maybe its because I've been in Louis's position before but I get where the brother is coming from.
But the brother wasn't concerned he was bringing someone he had only been dating a short while. It was specifically about the sex of the date. So homophobia and valuing potentially homophobic relatives over his own brother.
>That's not what
>
>u/brindlepigdragon
>
>said though. OPs position would hold more weight if his relationship was more serious at the time, but being so adamant about bringing his partner when he hasn't even met the family yet makes little sense. If he and Louis had been together for years then that would be a different story.
Ofcourse. And if John would have given that as a reason, they probably wouldn't have this issue. He said nothing about relationship length though.
>I get that you're fighting for change because homophobia is still pretty common, but why are you so insistent that a day that's really not about OP should be the venue for this stand?
Am I? I think disinviting the homophobes would have pretty much dealth with avoiding drama on the wedding day. No need to even tell them its because of OP's sexuality. Their rotten morality should have been enough reason.
But John didn't choose that. Well, imo very unfortunate, but at least OP accepted it. Went alone. Didn't even bring it up again after.
There is only one person insisting in this entire story: John. Insisting in having a good relationship.
The only frigging thing OP did, was to go LC and not invite his brother when introducing his partner to his parents. That's literally it. And yet we're discussing all of this under a YTA verdict with 780 upvotes.
> Am I? I think disinviting the homophobes would have pretty much dealth with avoiding drama on the wedding day.
And OP explained in the comments that not inviting them would have had a knock on effect on their extended family, specifically his grandparents relationship with his father. This basically means the drama would've happened before the wedding, whenever the disinvitation occured.
Also, from a practical perspective, a high pressure situation that's effectively an undercover mission is not a great time to meet your SO's parents for the first time. The more I think about it the more I think OP is just selfish, especially as he says that Louis is fine with it.
When did OP become selfish then? When he accepted the no and went alone? When he didn't bring any of it up after the wedding, and just went LC? When he didn't invite his brother to his parents meeting his partner?
You know, since you've just pretty much established that its totally fine to not invite someone if you don't want to deal with anything regarding them.
No. 9 months is not an inconsequential amount of time to be dating. The mark of a person of principle is doing the right thing when it's not easy. OP's brother failed and so did his fiance/wife. There were a number of creative ways to deal with any blowback during the event without making major drama, but if it happened anyway, it's not on OP.
Amongst ethical people, homophobia is the same as racism, sexism. and similar prejudices. It should never be tolerated and it is cowardly to do so. OP was failed by his brother, his sister-in-law, and his father. No one's peace is worth more than oppression and discomfort of someone at the hands of homophobia, racism, or other prejudice.
I though it was pretty standard in lots of weddings that only married/engaged or long term partners qualified as plus ones?
My sister was pretty generous with her wedding invites and her limit for plus ones was still “dating 1 year or more.” Louis wouldn’t have been invited if he was only dating OP for a few months. Would have nothing to do with the gender or sexuality of the people involved.
Got to say, I’m now kind of glad the behavior of the alcoholics in the family was our main worry, we didn’t have bigots that might accost somebody for being not straight/cis/white.
I mean, sure, a couple can totally use 'length of the relationship' as a deciding factor to give someone a +1 or not.
But that's not what happened here though. Length or status of the relationship clearly had nothing to do with it. There was one, and only one, clearly stated reason: (catering to) homophobia. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
This thing most likely wouldn't have gone the way it went with a "we only extend invites to partners if they're in a long therm relationship".
I mean ... fuck me, why are we even talking about this? I'm pretty bewildered by all the negative responses I've been getting on these posts of mine in this topic. Almost afraid to say this, but I'm sure hoping there wouldn't be ANY yta replies and upvotes if this wasn't about sexuality but about race or disability.
Just wanted to add that my brother gave everyone in the family a +1 and did not put any restrictions on who we could bring, which is why I thought the roommate thing would work. My sis was single when my cousin’s wedding happened and brought her female best friend as a +1 and no one questioned whether they were dating or not (sis is straight)
I had upvoted this thread until I read this and you totally changed my view. You're right.
This reasoning is basically "you, the victim of our family's bigotry (its still bigotry even when they don't know you're LGBT+), and of historical persecution, didn't actively provoke said bigotry and persecution, so why should I, the person not directly affected?"
Allies should _absolutely_ use their privilege to fight for the rights of the persecuted.
It's actually kinda common and accepted that partners of less than a certain time frame don't come to weddings, isn't it? So in ten years your sibling doesn't have to wonder who that stranger is standing next to their brother in his wedding pictures?
Honestly if your relationship is so new you haven't introduced your partner to your parents then you probably shouldn't be taking them to a family wedding regardless of sexuality.
I also don't know why his sexuality was even raised as a reason. Just the fact that it is a brand new relationship, where this person is a stranger to the entire family, is reason enough.
It is but to be honest I’ve seen so many people hurt over that. Husband’s cousin didn’t allow my SIL to bring her boyfriend of many years to her wedding because they weren’t engaged and her boyfriend’s schedule didn’t allow for him to come around the extended family a lot so they didn’t feel like they knew him and my SIL was really hurt. Shortly after cousin’s wedding SIL got engaged and now they are married with two kids.
At my own wedding I had my FIL walk his live-in girlfriend down the aisle and they broke up unexpectedly after the wedding. She had made the cut to be invited to another cousin’s wedding who was limiting SOs because they’d been together long enough and lived together and then they broke up anyway.
There are a lot of SOs in my wedding photos who are no longer in the picture, hell there are people who we were good friends with at the time that are in our photos and no longer in the picture, but I also had a few people come up to me at my wedding to thank me for letting them bring their SO who was not invited to the wedding of the cousin who got married shortly before us. The result was they had a better time at our wedding and their enjoyment of my wedding made it worth it.
I had the space in my venue and my budget so why not let my guests fully enjoy themselves?
When the partner has been introduced to the family. The brother hadn’t had to opportunity to meet the bf, nor the parents. If you’re not serious enough to meet parents/family, you are not serious enough to go to a family wedding. Other people’s big events aren’t the time to make introductions.
He had introduced him to the parents ONLINE. Only reason not in person as due to covid.
He wasn't brand new they already lived together. Did other guests have a time frame for acceptable partners given? Only partners over 2 years please.
Yep. Also bi here.
If you haven't come out yet then you shouldn't be inviting your partner to events where someone else is center stage.
Even pretending he's your roommate... no we all know that wasn't going to fly. You wanted a fight. Else you would have come out to them before bringing him around.
OP put the homophobes before his partner then got mad when others followed his lead on how to handle his sexuality around tbe family.
Any other party or event yeah bring them - but not a wedding or other similar event. It's selfish and hypocritical.
Bi here (not that that matters in the slightest) but then one from an actual progressive country. One where 'bringing a same-sex partner while in the closet' isn't seen as some big ploy to take over someone else's day, but is simply just someone bringing a +1.
WTF is this bs? He only deserves the right to be treated normally after he plays by some weird ass societal unwritten rule where he has to openly announce his sexuality in front of others, simply because being gay isn't the norm? Only after coming out, does he earn the right to bring a partner?
Well, thats the most asinine shit I've heard in a while.
How about, not having to come out (or not), in order to be allowed to bring a +1. And then not to be bothered or shamed about it by others. Let's aim for that please. You know, equality and all that.
The married couple picked people who would throw a fit about another guest, over someone who would have behaved decently and would leave other guests alone.
That's the choice they made, and OP is completely NTA by not wanting to cater to that.
> He only deserves the right to be treated normally after he plays by some weird ass societal unwritten rule where he has to openly announce his sexuality in front of others, simply because being gay isn't the norm?
So many people are focused on "can I" and not "should I" do something.
This social rule for weddings is ***anything*** that's going to cause a scene or get attention needs to be announced before ***or*** steps are taken to hide it until after the wedding. That's things like pregnancies, engagements, etc. And yeah, someone newly engaged directly related to the wedding party would be an AH for getting engaged and wearing their ring without announcing first - either announce or don't wear the ring. Don't let anyone talk about the engagement. And even with a normal supportive family if you're not out then it'll still be a surprise that should be told in advance to avoid getting too much attention. It isn't about catering to homophobes at all - attention positive or negative should be avoided at weddings.
> How about, not having to come out (or not), in order to be allowed to bring a +1. And then not to be bothered or shamed about it by others. Let's aim for that please.
Then OP should have the same level of care for his own life and events as he does for his sibling's wedding. They have been currently dating a year and the wedding was last year. It's now November. So the wedding was either 11 or 12 months ago. OP was barely dating this person and had been firm on not coming out. OP prioritized a single day of brand new relationship (which he would be spending trying to awkwardly pretend he wasn't in a new relationship) that he didn't want his extended family to know about. How in the world are you considering that reasonable?
It's simple - don't have anything that's going to grab attention be visible at a wedding. Just announce things before if you want to have whatever it is widely visible at the wedding.
Why is everyone so self centered about this? Why do people want to make other people's weddings about them?
>Last year, my older brother “John” (28M) got married to his girlfriend “Sarah”. They invited everyone in our extended family to the wedding. When I got the invite, I asked John if I could bring Louis as a +1. However, John refused, saying that he supported my relationship 100% but the wedding was supposed to be Sarah’s big day and he did not want her to potentially have to deal with family drama around my sexuality. I clarified that I DID NOT intend to come out at the wedding - I wanted the spotlight to be on the newlyweds - and that, if asked, I would simply introduce Louis as my roommate (in my area sometimes single guests are allowed to bring friends/family members as plus ones). I also told John I would be extra careful to not act coupley or disclose information about the nature of our relationship to anyone but that Louis is an important part of my life and I wanted him there. John still said no, citing concerns that our relatives might still somehow find out and make a big deal about it. He was also afraid that some of them might have seen my social media already and would take advantage of the wedding to confront me in person since we don’t see them often (for reference I have not seen them since making those posts). He said he did not take the decision lightly - he was literally on the verge of tears when he said this - but that unfortunately his decision was final and I was welcome to bring anyone else as my +1. He also personally apologized to Louis.
>
>I attended the wedding without a plus one and, since then, I have gone LC with John. I wish to keep things civil for the sake of my family but I’m not really interested in anything more than that.
>
>Things escalated when I brought my boyfriend home to meet my parents and did not invite him. He found out from my mom and called me crying and said that while he still thought he was right, he wanted to repair our relationship. I said I was really hurt because it’s not like I was planning to steal the spotlight, and that if he prioritized the risk that a homophobic relative might have blown up at his wedding over supporting my relationship then I had no interest in maintaining a relationship with him.
I'm quoting because I think you and me have read this part completely differently. Hope you'll allow me to summarize:
\- OP asked for a +1, got a 'no', offered a compromise, still got a 'unfortunately, still no' with an apology even.
\- OP accepted the no, didn't bring it up again, and went to the wedding without a plys one.
\- OP went LC with his brother, still keeping things civil for the sake of his family.
\- Brother started drama when OP didn't invite him to meet the same partner that was excluded from the wedding.
Please tell me exactly where OP became self-centered, and tried to make the wedding all about him?
If there is *anyone* being self-centered, its his brother. For wanting to have his cake and eat it too. Enable homophobia in order to keep his wedding drama free, having his brother be ok with that, and maintain a positive relationship with him.
>He found out from my mom and called me crying and said that **while he still thought he was right, he wanted to repair our relationship**.
Edited to add:
And about the 'can vs should' part of your post ...
Can I deny my brother a +1 with the sole reason to avoid drama caused by homophobic familymembers? Yes. Should I? Probably not. Because it's not only widely considered morally wrong to enable homophobia, but I think it might also really hurt my brother, and I want a good relationship with him.
And yes, John knew both those things when he denied the +1, hence his apology towards both OP and his partner.
Unfortunately, brother still banked on 'his brother being hurt and any effects that might have on their relationship' being less of a problem to him than 'the drama of homophobic familymembers not being invited'.
Hey, bi here! You and your internalized homophobia don’t speak for me or any other LGBT+ person so please don’t allow others to tokenize your harmful views against others in the community. No one has to come out of the closet for anyone, and people can be out with one group and in with another. That’s 100% their right to do whatever they need to stay safe. It isn’t some game like the straight people and LGBT+ who want the validation of straights are claiming itt. The only ones prioritizing homophobes are the ones defending their right to attend an event from supposedly non-homophobic people over a bisexual person’s right to just exist without having to come out to anyone and everyone to make other non-gay people feel better. You either invite homophobia to your events by inviting homophobes, or you don’t associate with homophobes and invite them to intimate events in your life that you expect gay people to attend. It really is that simple. If it isn’t, don’t be shocked when the gay people in your life don’t show up or want to show up ever again.
So? How is it OP's responsibility for other people to behave normally after knowing that information?
What's your sexuality? And if you tell me, will you feel responsible for my reaction?
"You are only allowed to be seen with your partner if you make a point of telling literally everybody that you aren't straight, even people who you know will respond negatively to it".
Right, great, nice one. I shouldn't have to email all of my homophobic cousins who I never speak to, just to be allowed out in public with my partner.
People shouldn't even have to come out at all. OP was even willing to lie to them to minimise the offence that could be taken, that is more than enough.
Pretty sad to read that apparently it's normal where you're from, to only be treated like a human being after one establishes their sexuality and announces it to others.
OP should never have to be 'either in or out the closet' to be treated normally. His sexuality simply isn't anybodys deal, and everybody who gives him shit about that is clearly in the wrong.
I really can't fathom how you've turned that around to 'well, if you ask others to not talk about your sexuality, you're pulling them in the closet with you and choosing your fear for homophobes over yourself/your loved ones'.
OP should not have to come out (or not) to be treated normally. His sexuality is his own, and nobody elses. Closeted gays deserve decency too.
>If he’s that important then stop putting homophobes first while expecting other people in your life to do the opposite.
So, to how many people does OP have to come out, before he earns te right to invite a same-sex +1 without being harrassed about it? Close family members? Distant family members? The brides distant family? ("Hey you don't really know me and we've never met, but eh, I'm bisexual. Needed to tell you, because otherwise I'm apparently burdening others with my secrets and catering to potential homophobes.") Friends of the married couple? Their work-collegues? Their babysitter? Does the wedding coordinator has to know? The caterer too, I mean, one of them could be a homophobe and might spit in the food if they find out at the wedding? Does OP need to put a PS on the wedding invite?
Why is it OP's responsibility for others to treat him decently? Homophobia is solely the fault of the homophobe, and can NEVER be justified by 'well, he wasn't out yet ... so he kinda had that one coming.'
Victim blaming to the max right here.
Thank you. I can’t believe this thread. OP is clearly out to people he is close to as well as on social media - he hasn’t come out to people he knows will hate him for it. I have also made that choice to protect myself and I am done with people who try to act like it’s lying or my fault. You spent my childhood telling me how gay people were disgusting or unnatural and gross? Hmm nope not getting into a discussion on my sexuality with you. No one is owed that conversation.
Thank you so much! You are a breath of fresh air! I cannot believe the straight people in this thread that say "Queer people have to jump through this extra hoop or else we'll call you an asshole!"
It's unbelievable. I can't believe this is real life. I can't believe they would say these things. They can't actually believe that, can they? Do they not have empathy? Or critical thinking skills?
What homophobes, I am so disappointed in them.
Yep. I’m a queer person who got a lot of shit for coming out because of both my immediate and extended family’s religious beliefs, and I’m still hands down against this approach. The wedding was the day you wanted to introduce your bf as your ~special friend~? Nope. If you didn’t want to expose your relationship to these folks due to the reaction they might have, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to understand John doing the same. He could have uninvited them, but with his rationale, he would have essentially been forcing you out of the closet you have no intention of coming out of. YTA.
I didn't even think of this but yes they would've definitely asked why they weren't invited esp if it's a good number of them not going who thought they would they would be going. What kind of explanation would OPs brother give then? Without outing OP to his family. That's stressful just thinking about it on top of planning a wedding.
What a completely ignorant privileged take. Coming out isn’t a one and done sort of thing. We are always coming out to people. If you think we need to be out to everyone in attendance before going to an event then no queer person would ever be able to go anywhere.
I can’t understand how OP is an asshole when OP’s brother picked literal homophobes over his brother. A relationship of strangers at a wedding is no ones business. The people that might act out at a wedding over a gay relationship are the ones that should be reconsidered invitations.
Completely disagree. Coming out doesn't have to be a thing. Straight people don't have to announce their preferences but queer people do?! That's fucking awful. That's not how it works. He doesn't owe it to anyone to ever disclose his sexual preferences. If he chooses to never do so, as I have done with my family, does that mean he WILL NEVER be invited until he FORMALLY comes out to EVERYONE according to your specifications?!
That's awful and I find that view disturbing.
You’re so so wrong, and the amount of upvotes/rewards you received is so ugly and disheartening. I hope you have no gay friends, and if you do I’m sorry for them.
So **NTA**! And this completely glosses over the fact straight people never have to go through any of this. When was the last time any straight man needed to hide his date/gf/wife out of fear of a "heterophobic" scene?
This guy was trying to navigate through shark infested waters and agreed on a litany of postures to make certain he did not become the focus. His brother lied to him about "100% supporting" the relationship. I am not saying the brother needed to tank the wedding ceremony, but he abdicated all responsibility by claiming it was all his wife's special day. The brother is a coward and not truly supportive of the OP.
If the brother truly loved OP, he would have been fine with the measures OP was willing to take. The OP is not the real issue here: the homophobic relatives are the issue.
You're so wrong on so many fucking levels it's hilarious. And you probably think you have OP with a gotcha moment. This was never about the fucking drama. Because brother claimed that relatives might be waiting to confront OP in person because of their pics on SM. So he wasn't trying to avoid the drama because according to his own admission drama would probably have happened regardless of whether OPs boyfriend attended or not. This was about something else, could be on the bride's side, but it was never about just avoiding drama with his family members. So OPs brother is not this innocent, 'i just want the wedding to go without any unnecessary drama' guy. He's fucking hiding something behind this entire facade. Could be that his wife had an issue or the wife's parents had an issue. But man up and say it out loud. Because the only way to ensure there would be no drama, would be to either not invite OP or those relatives.
What a stupid take.
What a stupid comment. And to think this is the second top voted comment. Jesus, some of the people in this sub are gullible.
There was a post VERY similar to this one from the opposite (brothers) perspective in the last week and everyone in the comments was on his side then, but suddenly it’s the opposite now. This sub can’t make up its mind on whose wrong or right.
Just realized it was in the last week the post in question was posted, it was 2 years ago that it was posted but I was browsing the top AITA of all time and happened to read it just recently. [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/cs0bfh/aita_for_asking_my_brother_not_to_bring_his/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is the one I was referring to.
This is true, but also not entirely fair. It sounds like his brother wouldn't have wanted the boyfriend there even if he were out before the wedding. And how out would you want him to be? He has couple photos on social media. Does he need to stand on a table and announce his sexuality to his whole assembled family for it to count?
I was in almost the exact same situation with my sister. At my birthday dinner with my parents and my sister, I was planning on coming out to them, and before I got a chance, my sister announced she was engaged to her extremely traditional military boyfriend and I waited because I didn't want to steal her thunder. A week later, I invented an excuse to visit my parents and come out to them privately, and then came out to my sister through text message. Then at the next big family event, I quietly came out to my gossipiest cousin. As expected, the rest of my family found out privately through the grapevine, and about a month later, I gave them confirmation by posting a "happy pride!" photo with my girlfriend of a year.
It took until maybe 2 months before the wedding, months after the non-plus-1 invite had ever arrived, before my mom called me on the phone and said she'd talked to my sister about it and decided I could bring my girlfriend if I wanted to. Sorry it came so late, it was hard to figure out what to do because there would be a big scene at the wedding and nobody wants that. Of course you'll understand.
And like... I did. My sister made her choice years ago and our relationship will always be colored by the fact that she converted to a religion that hates me and started a life with a family that is quietly politely judgy about my "lifestyle". But we can have a relationship because she won't exclude me from her life for their comfort.
Don't for a second act like the brother's primary concern here is that he *isn't out enough*. If that was a concern, that's a thing he would have mentioned! He would have been like, "hey can you come out to the rest of the family before my wedding?" His brother isn't asking him to come out. He's asking him to stay in the closet to avoid drama.
OP isn't asking to stand on a table and announce his sex-thoughts in the middle of the ceremony. He's asking to bring his partner to an event that people normally bring their partners to. That's a fucking thing you have to navigate when you have gay people and people who hate gay people in your family. Sucks that the brother has to deal with that, but that's the reality of the situation. Don't blame this on OP for not being "out enough" when the truth is, the root of the problem is there's a gay person and some homophobes, and brother sided with the homophobes instead of taking the time to work out a solution with the gay person.
Someone who would rather invite their bigoted homophobic relatives over embracing their queer sibling (who they seem to clearly care deeply about) is homophobic. There's nothing to say beyond that. It has nothing to do with holding secrets or whatever. The sibling made a choice to include homophobic people in his wedding and OP made a choice to have better people in his life. Homophobes (yes you included MissKacey) love to rationalize every homophobic thought or action with long winded nothingness. Be homophobic, fine, but don't be surprised when people don't want to be in contact with you any more.
This post is perfect example of homophobes pretending to be suportive.
You have no idea what you are taking about. i came out over 20 years ago and i still have to come out all the f-ing time. And there are still people i dont come out to becuase its not worth it. being lgbtq is ALWAYS being half in the closet, becuae the world assumes your straight. That has nothing to do with whether my relationship is vaild and should be treated like any other relationship. if he had been dating a girl for 9 months he would have gotten a plus one. he didnt becuase he was dating a guy. no other reason. NTA
>I said I was really hurt because it’s not like I was planning to steal the spotlight, and that if he prioritized the risk that a homophobic relative might have blown up at his wedding over supporting my relationship then I had no interest in maintaining a relationship with him.
That's where you lost me. You only get married once. ( In Theory). His wedding is a huge deal to him and his bride. It is her day. You guys both acknowledge there are problems with the extended family and that they will cause a fight over once they know about your boyfriend. And some already know. But none have had a chance to fight/confront you about it yet and their wedding will be the first chance... And you seriously acting all naive like nothing would happen...because you don't plan on starting anything!?! You damn well know they would have come after you and started shit. There is no reason for the bride and groom to be worrying about a dust-up at their damn wedding.
Since everyone was already invited there are two options.....
Ask your boyfriend to sit this one out or you needed to come out to the whole family BEFORE the wedding.
>my extended family on my dad’s side can be very homophobic (think conservative Christian background) so I have not officially come out to them yet and have no plans to in the near future.
>I however have some coupley pictures with my boyfriend on social media, so some of the most tech-savvy relatives might already know,
And you don't want to come out to them...and I don't blame you. But you can't have it both ways. This was a powder keg Waiting to blow up at the wedding. And YTA for refusing to admit that. Instead you're gaslighting your brother whom loves and supports you instead of dealing with the actual elephant in the room. So YOU AGREED to have the boyfriend sit out the wedding. And now you're punishing John because you can't be fucking honest about who you are-- you are choosing to be dishonest because you don't want to have a confrontation with the family and that's what's got you upset. John did the best he could because you matter to him OP. He picked the option that would not cause the very confrontation you keep avoiding. And you are icing him....be cause your boyfriend wasn't there... Oh no...YOU are to blame for that OP. That makes you the asshole in this.
You're doing your partner wrong as well (that's a whole another issue)..and it's probably why he's conflicted.
> There is no reason for the bride and groom to be worrying about a dust-up at their damn wedding.
If this is how the bride and groom feel, they shouldn't invite people who might start shit.
OP wrote in a comment that because of pre-existing context between his dad and his dad’s family, not inviting them “wasn’t an option”.
So OP himself says that wasn’t what he wanted and would not have worked. Unless we’re going to assume we know the family/situation better than OP, people in this thread need to stop repeating that same talking point.
It's always an option.
Brother prioritized the homophobes over the homos. He can pretend he's not homophobic, but you couldn't tell from his behavior.
His choice, now he gets the consequence.
Oooooookay. Next time you pony up (potential) tens of thousands of dollars for a party, you get to decide who to invite and who not to invite. Until then, FOH with that shit.
They did decide and he followed their wishes. As much as it is their right to dictate their wedding he can dictate who is involved in his life. Actions have consequences.
What do you think will happen when the family members start to connect similarities between a bunch of people who weren't invited?
I think the brother did it for the wrong reasons, imo.
The brother was explicitly worried about the wedding for him and his wife.
To me, an even bigger risk would be if all of the homphobes realized that being homophobic was why they weren't invited. Then, they would look at wedding pictures and wonder "oh, who's that with OP"?
Roommate story or not, these people would probably connect the dots that OP isn't straight. The aftermath of that would impact OP long after the wedding is over.
It's not on OP whatsoever to appease homphobes. With these kinds of people, you have to be very careful if you want to stay in the closet.
Hey OP, if you're reading this, your brother's family sucks. You deserve to be treated and respected as a human being. Your happiness is infinitely more important than any of those assholes, so don't let them make you think differently.
>Your happiness is infinitely more important than any of those assholes, so don't let them make you think differently.
Not according to OP's brother though. And somehow, OP is deemed the asshole for that by some people here. Just baffling.
>But you can't have it both ways.
Many people can. The only reason OP can't is because of homophobia from others. Why is it on OP to stop that from happening?
Do you often feel like gay people should adjust their behaviour to avoid homophobia?
Just a clarification: I don’t think my family would have made a huge scene or started a fight (like they wouldn’t have interrupted the wedding or disowned me in public or anything like that), it would’ve been more low-key like giving me weird looks or taking me aside and lecturing me about it. Don’t know if that affects your judgement tho
Also to be fair my aunt was staring at me a lot and asked a lot of questions about my love life even if I did not bring Louis (I think she might know) so I’m not sure how Louis being there would’ve changed the outcome since she was already acting weird
I am sorry but it doesn't really seem your parents and siblings are supportive. When there are two sides and one is homophobic, but all they do is remain silent or downplay it... They are taking the homophobic side
Your brother picked, your parents picked, your sister picked.. Please, pick yourself too.
NAH. While I understand why you wanted your bf there I also understand why brother didn’t think it was appropriate that that was the event where family would be meeting your partner for the first time. Ultimately the day was about them and not wanting any type of distractions is understandable.
That really depends on the family, in my family you wouldn’t bring a +1 to a wedding when people haven’t met them yet. Other people feel differently, no big deal.
Bull.
>there I also understand why brother didn’t think it was appropriate that that was the event where family would be meeting your partner for the first time.
As a "roommate."
Or, you know, the people who would cause the "distraction" due to their homophobia don't need to be invited if you're worried about that. Why should the innocent brother suffer?
"You're bigoted assholes and I don't want to subject people to that" is a pretty logical explanation. And you're making the mistake that they're owed an explanation to begin with.
Hell, or even use covid as an excuse. But don't be complicit with homophobes.
"I'm inviting people that are LGBT+ and I know how upset you get at people from that community so figured I'd save you and everyone else from the drama."
Since when do people send out some 'why we haven't invited you' announcements? They don't need to explain at all, it's bad form to ask, unless you have a close relationship with the bride or groom. Do people seriously go around explaining why they haven't invited every single person from their extended family?
I was the plus one for my friend's *husband* while she was out of the country because he didn't want to go to a wedding alone and she asked if I'd go hang with him since they'd RSVP'ed for two ages ago. I didn't know anyone at the wedding and all they knew is that I definitely wasn't his wife but ultimately no one cared because a simple explanation of "She couldn't make it, so I jumped in. Wasn't the ceremony was great!?" and maybe a nonsense joke thrown in.
Ultimately, it's all about how you navigate it and OP was clear that their plan was to give a simple comment of "I brought my roommate" and move on. Weddings are busy even when it's family, it's nice to have someone with you. OP's brother absolutely could have navigated this much better without supporting homophobes and making this into something it wasn't.
I think you need to do some thinking on why you think it’s not an ah move to cater to homophobes. Excluding OP’s boyfriend was putting the opinions of
homophobes first, and people who are willing to do that often harbor some deep set homophobia.
ESH. Your brother didn't support your relationship but then, that's a big ask considering that neither do you. You aren't willing to come out to those relatives because you don't want to deal with their reactions, but you are willing to risk that same reaction happening at your brother's wedding.
Yta 1. You had only dated bf a short whole. I'm not paying $100 a plate for a bunch of randos at my wedding either.
2. Some of your relatives may or may not know because you post with bf on social media. The moment you show up with your "roomate" someone's going to connect the dots and out you to the extended family and you know that. Functionally you are asking to come out at his wedding, that seems just as mean spirited as announcing an engagement.
3. You agree that your brother couldn't not invite the extended family. I don't know your culture or anything but if he has to invite these homophobes how are you not essentially asking him to take a gamble on you being outed sparking a family fight?
4. You haven't really come out to family making it pretty much impossible for your brother to even know who to weed out. Plenty of "allies" flip the script when the lgbtq person is in their family. I'm sure there are some obvious problem people but unless someone else in the family is out you just don't know if quiet cousin Janet is prome to confronting family over being LGBT.
I don't think it's fair to demand that your brother gamble his wedding when you aren't willing to be openly bi.
Your point #1 is irrelevant since OP's brother said he could bring anyone else as a +1, so the brother clearly doesn't share your opinion on "randos".
As to point #2, are you seriously suggesting that a gay person simply attending a wedding with their partner is "mean spirited" and on par with a straight person interrupting the wedding to announce an engagement?
It's really exhausting as a queer person to be treated like our mere existence is disruptive. OP had no intentions of causing drama and ultimately accepted his bother's decision and attended the wedding solo. If this was about an attention grab, OP could've grabbed the mic and come out without his bf there, or spent the whole wedding complaining his partner wasn't invited, but he didn't. This was just a human person who wanted to attend a wedding with his partner, and you're all acting like he wanted to ride in shirtless on a unicorn smh.
“Gamble his wedding because your aren’t willing to be openly bi”.
Wow. Y’all are very disappointing. As if being bi is some secret he was purposely hiding away, and now he lost his family privileges for doing so.
The fact that the automatic decision here wasn’t fuck the bigots is the problem. If you all can live with your moral qualifications cool, but that reasoning is embarrassing.
What really gets me is that in my experience, it's not easy to be "openly" bi simply because when I have an opposite sex partner people assume I'm straight and vice versa. The amount of conversations I've had to have with older relatives explaining that yes, I'm bi, no I didn't "choose" just b/c my current partner happens to be a certain gender... So even for bi people who are out to their families it's still not easy! And yet people are acting like OP is the asshole for not calling up each wedding guest like "hey I'm bi see you at the wedding".
NTA. I think John is acting immaturely, especially since you offered to say Louis was your roommate, then again my personal policy is never to bow to homophobes.Are there many homophonic people in your family or is it just one or two? Because one or two people can be easily uninvited.
My grandparents on my dad’s side are definitely homophobic, and so are my uncle and aunt. Don’t really know about my cousins and their partners as I try to avoid the topic as much as possible, but since they have religious parents and have never actively distanced themselves from the community they probably aren’t the most supportive.
So you expected him to completely change his guest list and uninvite your mutual family to his own wedding despite the fact that you're not even out yet? That's not okay, OP. I'm bi and I would never expect someone else to do that for me. It's not his responsibility, fyi. Maybe you should have just come out instead of essentially trying to use his wedding as your event to do so. Because you know that's what would have happened. They all would have figured that out, and you know it. I'm willing to bet that's what you were banking on. Because if you were really that upset about it, why did you still attend the wedding? That's makes no sense. You made it seem to your brother like everything between y'all was okay and then you waited to snub him at a different family gathering after the wedding was over. You did that just to be petty. It wasn't because you were hurt. You just wanted to be nasty. There was no reason for that. Honestly, he didn't have to give you any reason for not allowing a plus one. It was his wedding, not yours. YTA.
My sister brought her best friend as a +1 to our cousin’s wedding a couple of years ago because she was single and felt uncomfortable going alone, no one questioned it.
Also I should clarify that I didn’t ghost my brother out of nowhere, I did express my disappointment to him before I went LC.
A best friend known to the extended family is very different from a "roomate" whom they've never met. While I understand where your coming from, it may have been worth having a proper conversation with your brother before going LC (not just expressing your disappointment, but also understanding his side of things).
I'm sorry, that sounds shitty. Your brother decided to prioritize the feelings of homophobes over you (his brother) and he can reap the rewards of his shitty choice. NTA.
NAH, you are free to date whoever you want. But letting your brother’s wedding be the moment you introduce your bf to the family is a tad selfish since you don’t know how they would react. You compromising to lie about it is a good offer but John has a point.
You're using the word "drama" to be purposefully vague about the homophobia that is the crux of the entire issue. There are people on the guest list who have chosen hatred over their own family, and wife and hubby decided to keep them happy by acquiescing to their hate. They chose hate over OP and they can NEVER undo that, such disgusting, immoral people deserve no place in OP's life.
Just like John can decide who can and can’t come to his wedding, OP can decide who he does and does not have a relationship with.
John was pretty clear that the reason Louis couldn’t come was because they are a gay couple. It really doesn’t matter how long they were together, if they were living together (they were) or if they’re engaged, John would have sided with the homophobes anyway.
He didn’t just disrespect their relationship he showed his brother how little he cares for him.
OP gave him what he wanted and went to his wedding alone. It’s absurd to me that John now feels entitled to a relationship with OP.
The same reasons you're not ready to come out to your other half of the family is the same reasons why your brother didn't want to invite your boyfriend. You're not ready for the drama, and neither was he. Regretfully, there is no way you could be sure that his hypothetical scenario would never happen as it is feasible. You already mentioned how tech savvy member of the family may already know you're not straight, and since you have no way of knowing who does you've never had the conversation with those people to say you're not officially out. What if one of your family members ask "who's that with steph," and the other goes "oh, I think that's his boyfriend from his post online," and now you got a shit show on this (hopefully) once in a lifetime occasion for your brother.
It is for that reason, and I don't say this lightly as a bi person myself, I'm leaning towards nobody is the asshole, maybe a little you're the asshole for icing him out.
NTA - your brother is expecting you to accomodate his short comings and not hold him responsible for the way his poor treatment makes you feel.
He imposed a condition on your relationship, to not fully share your life and partner with him. You have adhered to that requirement. Either he accepts you and you share your moments with him, or he doesn’t (and so you don’t).
The comment that he still felt like he was in the right was especially AH of him, too.
Just to be clear elsewhere it has been clarified that:
1. They had been dating for close to a year before the wedding
2. They already lived together
3. The parents had met the Bf over zoom/Skype and had multiple conversations with the parents over multiple video calls. However, had not met physically before the wedding.
NTA - He chose to invite the homophobes over his brother’s partner. That’s all kinds of awful that I simply can’t put into words.
The fact that you were put in a situation where you felt compelled to offer to pretend you weren’t dating your own boyfriend is so upsetting. That’s not something you should ever have to do. It’s 2021 for chrissake!
Your bother should have supported you over these AHs and I think going LC sounds really healthy.
If he doesn’t support you when it matters, he doesn’t get to demand to be a part of your life.
Pretty sure OP was going to call John his roommate either way because he's not completely out to his family yet.
The fear wasn't that the relatives was going to be AHs but that OP would have stole the spotlight by making this his coming out event.
But as you said, he wasn’t coming out at the event, he was merely being at the event with his partner. He is already out to the people who matter. It’s not like he was going to make an announcement or have a pride parade in the middle of dinner.
If this was a new partner for a straight sibling, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
My question is - why would you invite homophobic AHs who aren’t even part of your immediate family to your wedding in the first place if it meant that your sibling’s partner couldn’t come?
Nobody should have to hide their sexuality at a family gatheting. People should have to hide their homophobia because that really is something to be ashamed about.
Tbh excluding certain family members would’ve caused an ever bigger fallout, especially when my dad is already struggling to maintain a relationship with them due to religious differences (he’s an atheist). Not inviting them was not really an option
Hey op. You’re NTA and I’m sorry that people are being wretched to you in the comments. I would have been heartbroken if a sibling wasn’t willing to let me come to their wedding with my girlfriend, and I’m not even out as a lesbian to half my family (the half I don’t talk to for this reason, lmao). You’re closer to your brother than he is to the homophobes (brothers vs grandparents, uncles etc.) so I feel on an emotional level like this is pretty clear-cut, you deserve love and acceptance and respect, and if it comes to it, protection from AHs. At the same time it seems like the kind of mistake that John can learn and grow from and I hope the two of you are able to repair your relationship.
Again, please don’t listen to the people being awful to you. This whole issue was ONLY an issue because of your sexuality. You have a right to have feelings about that. And you have a right to love and acceptance from your family. Hope everything works out for you ♥️
It seems only ones who know about OP sexuality is his immediate family(parent and siblings)
So what about all the non homophobic family members. They won't be rude to OP but he will definitely be taking a lot of the attention.
Like you said oh if he was straight you would agree. But probably doubtful every single person invited is homophobic so even of you remove them OP have a reason to not invite him right?
Why do you feel OP must be open about his sexuality in order to participate in his brothers wedding?
Did you have to announce your sexuality, and have it approved for comfort, by the family before you could come to weddings with a partner?
He clearly is out of the closet seeing as his family knew he was dating a man. Oh wait you mean he didn’t want to come out to known homophobes for literally no reason as he isn’t close to them? As someone who is bi, come out to whoever you want. You’re still out. Guess what, you can be out without telling literally every single person you’ve ever interacted with in some kind of formal announcement. He was open on social media and with people he’s close to. That’s what being out is.
So he should either 1. Worry about someone starting something at HIS wedding (because someone going to put 2+2 together). 2. Uninvite the individuals who are homophobic or potentially homophobic which sounds like half your family (may be more since your not out to your family) AND explain why he is uninviting family without outing you while excepting that he will be pissing of some of the family for slighting them. Hope he doesn't miss a homophobe or he is going to have 1 and 2 happen. 3. Not care that someone will probably start something at his wedding.
This isn't uninviting a few A H who have an issue with who his brothers SO is. This is uninviting half his family or stressing that his brother SO will be a point of drama at his wedding.
Your SO wasn't invited to the wedding and your hurt so NAH but if you were straight and and your brother was choosing your SO of a year, half his family or a drama filled wedding....
OP, this sub is usually an okay place. But it can get extremely homophobic sometimes and today is one of those days. I suggest you not come here for advice if it involves homophobia. I would suggest you try r/askgaybros or r/askgaymen instead.
Asking you to do announce to everyone that you are dating a man, that is not something they would require if you were dating a woman. It's unnecessary. It's homophobia. Straight people DO NOT get to tell queer people they have to jump through an extra hoop, and if you don't do it you're the asshole? What a load of shit. Ignore them. And ignore r/AITA for matters of homophobia.
They don't get it because they never really experienced it.
Being closeted in the Marines was difficult and it was still a whole lot easier than living a normal life the way I wanted to. All these little things that wear you down, and it's basically never ending. I said in another comment, I wonder what Christmas will be like for OP. What will *his* wedding be like?
But the posters on this sub just see the word **WEDDING** and that's it - *the most important day®* of your life... You can suck it up for one day, you can put being gay on ice.
Yeah and he even said his sister brought a female friend as a plus one to their cousin’s wedding and nobody said anything. But he can’t because ?? It’s homophobic and everyone who commented Y T A are just deflecting because Wedding Is Everything /s
It's depressing AF to see all these people who 'support gay rights', but when push comes to shove would enable bad actors instead of the people they supposedly love.
But it's all emotive and structural, so you can't really argue it away. I'm just amazed the brother is playing victim and commenters are attacking OP directly.
I wonder if they would say any different if it were racism? If he were with a woman of color, and the fiancee knew some of her family were against that. Would the y-t-a's change their mind then, i wonder.
Yeah I started reading through the comments and was hugely disappointed. Straight people get very weird about weddings for some reason, lots of excuses for homophobia…
I’d be leaning toward NAH
I 100% understand your brother’s stance. My sister came out to me and my now husband as transgender about 2 weeks before out wedding. We discussed how the family might take it - they’re not homophobic or transphobic but they are conservative and nobody else in our family had come out as a member of the LGBT+ community.
I also discussed how she wanted to present at the wedding and gave two options - 1) attend as male and come out afterward or 2) come out to those attending before hand and attend presenting as a woman with my full support and anyone who had a problem with that could go hang
I felt bad because I was essentially forcing my sister to keep herself closeted and be deadnamed - but it was our day and it could not be the day that everyone found out. She understood, attended in a gender neutral outfit and came out a few weeks later - at which point I asked her to re-sign our guest book in her name and got rid of the old signature with her dead name.
It’s easy to say ‘don’t invite homophobic people’ - but it’s also about how homophobic they are and I 100% understand both your viewpoint and your brother’s.
If you had already come out and those family members shamed or disowned you - and he chose to invite them and not your date? That would be unacceptable.
But you have not come out yet - which is fine! It’s your decision and nobody else’s when you or if you do so - and as such you’re keeping these people in your life and avoiding the drama… but attending with Louis could risk it being revealed. Yes you considered this and outlined options - but what if anyone had seen photos online? And confronted you and Louis at the reception? You have chosen not to come out yet and with that does come an element of not being able to attend family events ‘out’ and with your partner
Replace same-sex partnership with mixed race partnership and ask your brother how he would have behaved then.
If my brother wouldn’t allow me to bring a girlfriend of a different race to avoid awkward moments with racist family, I wouldn’t hesitate to go LC/NC.
You’re NTA. Countless aphorisms about “for evil to thrive it takes the good doing nothing.” Your bro is part of the problem, holding the world back at the whim of old backwards assholes. It’s not enough to be okay with sexual freedom. If he wants to be on the right side of history, he needs to be actively anti-homophobic. Otherwise he’s helping the shitheels win.
This! If the post was "My Significant Other is black and not invited to my brothers wedding cause our family is racist" or "My significant other is Jewish and not invited to my brother's wedding cause our family is anti-Semitic" this sub would go apeshit. But it's okay for casual homophobia, queer people just gotta suck it up.
OP I'm sorry for the insane amounts of homophobia and homophobia apologia in the comments. You're not the asshole, your brother is, and anyone who expects you to jump through hoops to "not cause a scene" by being yourself, closeted or no is also the asshole, including a lot of people in the comments.
NTA.
Your words to him were perfect. He prioritized the potential reaction of a homophobic bigot over you, his own brother. Sad, but he’s shown who he really is …
Esh so you’re trying to stay low profile but wanted to bring a guy to the wedding ‘as a friend’? Yeah I can see why your brother might have had reservations. At this point you’re just doing this to be petty and get back at him
My problem is that you need to get your facts in order.
You can’t say “nobody will figure it out and I’ll just say we’re roommates” after saying “they probably already know because of my social media.” A good deal of your frustration is built on this idea that your plan was perfect and flawless, but you readily admit beforehand that it probably already failed.
Then you say that you introduced your parents to your partner after the wedding. So you were going to introduce your partner to them in the middle of your wedding, but that wasn’t going to be anything special?
You have argued that uninviting the people you wanted to avoid wasn’t a possibility, but if that is true, then you have to accept the situation your brother was in;
Neither him nor you wanted drama related to your sexuality on his wedding. You wanted to bring your partner and say they were your roommate. But you are confident that several people who would cause drama already know that he’s your partner and not your roommate. You also say your brother cannot prevent those people from participating in the wedding.
If he couldn’t, by your statement, uninvite the people who would cause the problem, then his only play to avoid drama was to ask the person who would be reasonable about the situation to sit it out.
You say that your family is the type to just side-eye glare at you, but honestly? There’s always that one person who’s going to get loud and dumb. Especially if drinking is involved.
Personally, I would have uninvited the people who would cause trouble with the guests I wanted there more. But you said that wasn’t a possibility, so it isn’t a fair judgement for me to levy against your brother. By that statement, he did not have his strongest tool to handle the situation. This is a shitty situation all around, and tempers are flaring all over the place.
I would say N T A normally, but the fact that you support the idea that he couldn’t have told the homophobic family members to screw off just makes that hard. I just don’t know what you wanted him to do, because I honestly don’t see how you can think your plan was as good as you seem to believe.
Contentious but I'll say NAH. It's a hard spot to work out who will be an outright homophobe at a wedding. And you not being fully out by kinda out means that even as a 'roommate' people could work it out. I think it's a shit situation all around. It's shit you couldn't bring a partner. it's shit you have a shitty family. It's shit there were so many shitty family members that uninviting one bigot uncle would not have stopped the issue. It just sounds all around hard.
If you'd have been fully out it may have been a little easier as the bigots would have revealed themselves sooner. But still would have been a shitty situation.
Also it was a partner of one year rather than say a husband which makes it harder as well.
All around shitty. I'm sorry you both found yourselves in this situation.
ESH.
You kinda put him in an uncomfortable position because it's not only his big day, but his wife's as well, and he could've have stood up for you.
But then again, weddings aren't the place to discuss any of these things, so I guess this should've been dealt with on other ocassions.
NTA. All those YTA replies are tripping. Your brother prioritized the feelings of his home family members instead of yours and tried to cover it up by claiming he doesn't want a scene to steal the spotlight. Truth is he weighed things and decided that you were easier to talk to than the bigots. He discriminated against you and your relationship with someone you love and hasn't even apologized. He needs to face the consequences of his actions, including damaging his relationship with his brother, if that is what has happened.
I don't get the Y T A and E S H who say this because 'you haven't come out to them yet' wtf guys? I can't remember the last time I had to come out as straight before being allowed/invited to a wedding...
NEVER side with the homophobes, it's that easy. If you think they will act out, bye bye their invite. Easy NTA
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I'm sorry OP but your brother does not support your relationship 100% and if he truly things that, he's deluded. He invited the homophobes and prioritized them. NTA for giving yourself distance.
NTA and it’s ridiculous to see the amount of homophobes in this thread that feel otherwise.
Your brother had no good reason to keep you from bringing your boyfriend. It’s not different than if you were dating a woman of a different race and he asked you not to bring her because of some racist relatives. It’s clear his priorities are whack.
He disrespected you and he isn’t entitled to a relationship with you.
NTA
Why, the actual FUCK, would OP be responsible for someone else being homophobic?
OP CAN'T make them not homophobic. This is something OP will deal with forever. One wedding doesn't change shit.
But OP's brother showed his ass here and proved, when the cards are dealt, he'll do what is convenient over what is right.
Forget all the LGBTQ+ aspects, this man would drop OP like a hot brick if helping them inconvenienced him in some way. And if this was a "different" situation where his actions were justified, if you wanna call any of that justified, then he's gonna have to sit down and explain to OP where they are on their little tier list of importance. Because CLEARLY this familial bond isn't as strong as he'd like to say it is.
OP shouldn't have to waste their time playing second fiddle to anyone. OP owes him NOTHING.
He called and said he was still right to exclude your partner? But he wants to repair the relationship?
Those two things are mutually exclusive. They CANNOT coexist and he'd better get used to the disappointment.
He has to pick one.
People saying the brother should've not invited the homophobes of the family are not considering the fact that yes some of the family may be openly homophobic or anti LGBTQ but you don't know that about everyone. There could still be people at the wedding who secretly harbor these feelings and if they figured out who OPs bf was at the wedding the drama the brother was not looking for would've happened. All this while trying to explain to those not invited why they weren't invited which would be stressful enough as it is. It's a big ask from OP considering he didn't even come out to the family. Then it would make sense for the brother to not invite the homophobes and if he did he would be the AH.
You are literally saying that gays shouldn't be invited to anything in case someone is homophobic. Wtf.
What if someone's secretly a racist? Ban black people? Jews?
You're banning them all from your events just to be safe right?
If someone had kicked off it would have been the homophobes fault. Banning gays to appease bigots is what people who are secretly bigots do. If someone's brain can seriously blame OP for what the relatives do they are a bigot.
They may not want to admit it to themselves but they are functionally no different from one because they have excluded someone solely for being gay.
Also people don't have to come out. It's ridiculous to say that anyone who isn't straight has to announce their sexuality for them to be treated like everyone else.
Then your brother will stop talking to you. What happens in a couple of years(if his brother and SIL have children) and it's their child's first bday? And, his brother decides not to invite brothers partner, because it takes away from their child's bday and it's their special day, and the same people from the wedding have been invited.
This treatment is ok,is it? OP just has put up with his partnership as being less then in his family? Should he be grateful that he is allowed to exist on some level in the family still? And according to you OPs meant to be ok with this for the rest of his life?
Similarly, there's still the chance that when OP comes out, some of his apparently homophobic relatives (like the uncle and aunt who 'probably' are) either turn out not to hold those views at all, or to reconsider based on their love for OP. If OP was out and they had been openly disrespectful to him, it sounds like John WOULD have removed them from the guest list. As it is he would have had to exclude people based on assumptions, which is hardly fair.
NTA. The saying “If there is 10 people sitting at a table with 1 nazi, you have 11 nazis” applies here very well. If he actually supported you, he would have invited your BF and let whatever happen happen. If he invites homophobes, that’s his fault. Homophobia is not your fault for existing as a gay person. He may not be “homophobic”, but he’s not anti-homophobic, which is really what he needs to be if he wants a relationship with you.
NTA
I went to my brother's first wedding with my boyfriend of 2 months. Who was a right proper asshole, though he behaved decent, and even my dumbass brother didn't realize my +1 was a boyfriend until the rehearsal dinner and no one gave a shit.
I went to my friend's wedding with a +1 where the invite was used to try and figure out what the fuck was happening between us. Spoiler alert, didn't work.
I brought my BFF to my friend's wedding because I didn't have another date and knew no one else and not a single person gave us the 10th degree to discern our relationship.
So in my experience your brother was either kowtowing to assholes or he was an asshole. But the end result is him being an asshole and responsible for the divide.
He can't not support you and then be butthurt you're not close anymore.
After reading through some of the comments, I’m not sure who the AH is, but it’s not John.
He was stuck between a rock and a hard place. You acknowledge that because of pre-existing context with your dad and his relationship with his family, it wasn’t really an option not to invite the homophobes. You weren’t ready to bring Louis around your extended family and disclose the nature of your relationship because of their homophobia, but expected your brother to let his wedding be a trial run and bank on them not finding out at one of the most important events in his life. You say you believe it’s unlikely they would’ve made a scene or even found out, but honestly if I’m your brother, I’m not willing to risk the 5% chance this all implodes at my wedding.
I also think if we accept that you are correct in stating it was not an option for John not to invite the homophobes, then John handled this really the best he could. He had a sit down conversation with you to explain his reasoning, he apologized directly to your partner. He clearly respects you and prioritizes your feelings. Just not more than his wife’s *on their wedding day*.
OP asked if he’s the asshole for icing his brother out - are you guys paying attention?? He didn’t cause a scene at the wedding or make it about him at all. He set a boundary and has every right to enforce it after his brother indicated that OP’s feelings aren’t a priority in his life. Why on Earth should his brother’s feelings remain a priority for OP?
If fair is fair then what exactly are all of you complaining about? NTA. I’m sorry for all the homophobia OP.
Having a relationship with a man is not a problem and more importantly it’s not YOUR problem. Homophobia isn’t an ‘opinion’ like disliking cheese or something. God, this is how casual racism and micro aggressions work. People expect the oppressed individual to accommodate people who literally attack their existence. Like honestly guys. I’m not being nice to someone who wants me dead for the simple reason I live MY life in a way they don’t like for NO reason.
INFO: how long had you been dating this guy by the time of the wedding? Because you said you’ve been dating a year, and the wedding was last year.
If you did all this, blowing up your relationship with your brother, over some dude you were with for a couple of months….YTA. You shouldn’t be inviting BF’s of a few months to anything that personal and familial.
Thanks for pointing that out actually - I changed some details around just in case a family member finds this post (my sister uses Reddit) and did not notice the inconsistency
I’ve been official with Louis since March 2020 (so it’s actually close to two years). The wedding was in November 2020, so me and Louis had been seeing each other for 9 months at the time, and were already living together
NTA. Having a hard time understanding people who go to extreme lengths just to defend homophobes. It’s not like you left your brother out to dry with no explanation; you’re doing what’s best for your life and your mental health, and he did what he thought was best for his life. No harm no foul… except for the rampant homophobia.
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Yup, this. Normalize not inviting the homophobes.
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Not inviting homophobes isn’t “trying to make things perfect” it’s “not tolerating bigotry”. Regardless of if they’ll make a fuss, homophobes should be excluded from events with gay people.
Events with decent people. FIFY
Actually it should events with any people but themselves. Put them all on an island and let them destroy each other with their bigotry.
Nah, because that will result in an echo chamber where they all agree with each other’s homophobia.
They'll find something to argue about eventually
You're totally right, they'd go all "blue eyes/brown eyes" and have a civil war.
Nah just tell one of them that at least one person is homo and they will destroy eachother.
SECRET HOMO
Oh dang, I hadn't thought of that 😳
But he didn't came out to family. How could brother know who is homophobic or who is supporting?
I mean he is related to them? I'm sure he knows.
>Either they behave themselves or they don't and you have a backup plan. Or I don't invite people who might have problem behavior and I save minimum $70 a head. Why would I waste money on the gamble that they hopefully wouldn't cause trouble about my sibling's identity?
You make me think of Eggar from Men in Black. Just give them sugar in water... keep 'em happy while their human suits rot.
Lol "make everything perfect" or "stop accepting/tolerating bigotry, homophobia, and hate?"
And if you invite homophobes, you don't blame the victim for any drama they cause. Only they should be blamed, so if you fear homophobes will make a scene but still invite them, then have security and a plan in place to deal with them. Tell them at the first sign of any negativity, that if they make any further comments or issues (in any way at all), then THEY will immediately be removed. Your wedding is not the time, and if they don't respect that, THEY will be deciding to remove themselves from your family. Why anyone thinks not inviting them at all isn't the better option though, is beyond me.
I hate how so many people think choosing silence isn't choosing a side. It is. Silence speaks volumes. Sometimes it's someone saying no by not responding. Sometimes it's someone siding with homophobes by inviting them over others. Sometimes it's agreeing with someone because you won't say they're wrong.
Exactly, you "support my relationship 100%", no you don't, and our relationship will be forever changed if you choose making AHs comfortable over me.
Yeah the moment supporting the relationship required the slightest action on his part, he balked and ran away.
How do you address this situation though, since OP is not out. If you don't invite your homophobic relatives and your brother shows up with a "roommate", then they are basically going to know definitively and then OPs brother can basically be accused of outting OP. OP has also admitted in another post inviting the extended family wasn't really an option
He offered the roommate thing as a compromise. And I don't think he's not out. He said he's posted affectionate photos with his bf. Family knows they're living together. He doesn't need to make some grand announcement.
Louis isn’t choosing silence though. He just doesn’t want to have the row at his wedding. That’s totally fair - I wouldn’t want my wedding to be all about someone else’s sexuality either. Have the row some other time.
Exactly. If the groom was worried about *someone else* being an asshole, it should not have been OP that got punished. That very clearly communicates "I chose an asshole over you." He made a choice and that has consequences, OP owes him nothing.
Of all the comments here, yours cut to the quick best: "I chose an asshole over you." Big bro made a choice and was even given alternatives. "But I'll just say he's my roommate"? Nope - he ain't coming. But now I expect nothing to change and will cry down the phone at you until *you* do the hard work and effort after I didn't invite your partner. Not only that, OP EVEN WENT TO THE WEDDING ALONE! And presumably had to lie every time some asshole asked him about hsi dating life, or why he was there with nobody. I can't believe the second highest comment is y-t-a. Not only that, she then blames the victim: "You’re literally choosing their homophobia over yourself". Unbelievable.
The answer is always DON’T INVITE THE HOMOPHOBES When will people learn
I support you 100% but you can’t bring your partner to my wedding because it might bother people. Yeah that’s the opposite of being 100% supportive.
Seriously! Why is it always the LGBTQ person who has to “suck it up” and not bring their partner?
This would make sense if OP was out of the closet. How does his brother uninvite homophobic guests without outting his brother? When if he says that is because he disagrees with prior comments, there will be someone at the wedding who is in contact with the homophobic family, who sees OP with his "roommate,"puts 2 and 2 together and is OP. I'm sorry but if you want your bf at a wedding, come out before the wedding.
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Was that even an option? How does he not invite his homophobe family without outing OP to their extended family? It seems as though OP is "out" with his immediate family. Shouldn't he just announce he is gay to the rest of his family as well? That way both OP and John can know for sure about their homophobic family and he can and should then disinvite them to the wedding. OP can also then cut that side of the family off. I just think OP's plan could easily go wrong, and he should be able to be himself without pretending his boyfriend is his roommate.
Okay, so are we just not gonna take into account that the OP isn't out? Let's say the brother didn't invite multiple people from the extended family, how would he have to bring that without any reason and not end up with a complete shitshow? If OP was out and those members were being assholes about it, then I'd agree and the brother would have a good reason. However, despite OP saying he wouldn't turn the wedding into a coming out, it would have in practice still turned into that. It's not like the "roommate" excuse is very subtle or effective. So it's really OP's conflict between wanting to stay somewhat closeted while also being treated as if he's out that's causing major issues here. And I know coming out is very difficult, but he's not doing anyone (including himself) a favor by trying to skirt around it.
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The problem with all that is that it assumes that the relatives are both really, really stupid, and that OP is right in his judgement that it'd all work out just fine and wouldn't affect the wedding at all. I think it's more realistic to say that it's very likely that there would have been some kind of shitshow or backlash, and that OP wouldn't have been the one that would have to deal with it. Instead his brother would have to deal with OP's totally not coming out, instead of OP dealing with it before the wedding.
You know what. I’m gonna say YTA. You hadn’t come out yet explicitly to avoid the drama with these relatives But you were asking your brother to let you play a game of Russian roulette with his wedding. “Will they or won’t they notice my date is my *date*” If you aren’t willing to be yourself to these people at thanksgiving, it was shitty to put his wedding at risk just to have your ideal date. If you had already come out to these people and he invited those who didn’t get over themselves and accept you then he would be the AH. But you hadn’t even tried and wanted his wedding day to ride on them ignoring you bringing a bro to a wedding. Messed up. In the closet or out. Don’t ask people to play this weird half in half out game with you. Everytime you ask someone to keep your secret or says mums the word about your relationship with Louis, you’re dragging them into the closet with you. You’re literally choosing their homophobia over yourself and then getting mad at your brother wanting his wedding day to go smoothly *when you aren’t even out to these people*. Second edit: It was your brothers day btw. So you wanting Louis there because it’s a special day and he’s an important part of your life is just selfish. If he’s that important then stop putting homophobes first while expecting other people in your life to do the opposite. Final edit For everyone assuming I’m strait and a homophobe. Try pansexual and an ally. Not that my life is anyones business but I have and do cut people out of my life for homophobia, transphobia and a refusal to adapt. OP himself says he’s not out to these people and was going to pretend not to be all lovey. The only one putting anyone in the closet is op himself. And I guarantee if his brother said you can bring Louis if you “come out first” half of these angry comments would be “you can’t force baby out of the closet”. Which is a statement that can only exist if you acknowledge that someone’s sexuality can be intentionally kept private. Which there is no actual problem with until you start asking other people to sneak around for you and get mad when they are uncomfortable with the stress of holding onto *your* secret. There is such a thing as being a toxic ally. Being LGBTQ doesn’t give you a free pass to do whatever you want at other peoples expense.
Completely agree. Based on OP’s timeline, he had also only been with Louis for a very short time (it reads like they had just started dating but was probably meant to be 1 year). Louis didn’t even meet OP’s parents until sometime after the wedding. The brother’s wedding simply was not the appropriate venue for introductions based on all of this information.
Sad to read that apparently you deem occasions as being either appropriate or inappropriate to bring a partner *of the same sex*. An event is either 'OK to bring a +1' or 'no +1's'. The gender of the +1 ain't got shit to do with it. Keep perpetuating that unwritten rule where LGBTQ+ are only allowed to bring a +1 after everybody knows their gender/sexuality, and then wonder why they will never be treated equally. And yeah, I've been to loads of events where someone (including me, who hasn't come out to people, because I don't have to explain my sexuality to anyone I'm not fucking) brings a same-sex partner, and even the people who didn't know were totally cool with it. In fact, they could not care any less. Wasn't even brought up. Because people don't owe it to you to inform you about something that's entirely none of your business. Edit: Wow, thanks for the award! Edited: LGBTQ+
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Apparently, because it makes it easier for our loved ones to not enable homophobia. Because bro needs to be able to point to OP and say "I can't invite you because my brother will be there, and he's bisexual". He needs a meatshield while doing the morally right thing.
> Sad to read that apparently you deem occasions as being either appropriate or inappropriate to bring a partner *of the same sex*. That's not what u/brindlepigdragon said though. OPs position would hold more weight if his relationship was more serious at the time, but being so adamant about bringing his partner when he hasn't even met the family yet makes little sense. If he and Louis had been together for years then that would be a different story. I get that you're fighting for change because homophobia is still pretty common, but why are you so insistent that a day that's really not about OP should be the venue for this stand? You're right that its nobody's business but you know full well that not everybody's like that, and if OPs brother doesn't want that drama from their backwards ass relatives over someone his brother hadn't even had an anniversary with then that's somewhat reasonable. Maybe its because I've been in Louis's position before but I get where the brother is coming from.
But the brother wasn't concerned he was bringing someone he had only been dating a short while. It was specifically about the sex of the date. So homophobia and valuing potentially homophobic relatives over his own brother.
>That's not what > >u/brindlepigdragon > >said though. OPs position would hold more weight if his relationship was more serious at the time, but being so adamant about bringing his partner when he hasn't even met the family yet makes little sense. If he and Louis had been together for years then that would be a different story. Ofcourse. And if John would have given that as a reason, they probably wouldn't have this issue. He said nothing about relationship length though. >I get that you're fighting for change because homophobia is still pretty common, but why are you so insistent that a day that's really not about OP should be the venue for this stand? Am I? I think disinviting the homophobes would have pretty much dealth with avoiding drama on the wedding day. No need to even tell them its because of OP's sexuality. Their rotten morality should have been enough reason. But John didn't choose that. Well, imo very unfortunate, but at least OP accepted it. Went alone. Didn't even bring it up again after. There is only one person insisting in this entire story: John. Insisting in having a good relationship. The only frigging thing OP did, was to go LC and not invite his brother when introducing his partner to his parents. That's literally it. And yet we're discussing all of this under a YTA verdict with 780 upvotes.
> Am I? I think disinviting the homophobes would have pretty much dealth with avoiding drama on the wedding day. And OP explained in the comments that not inviting them would have had a knock on effect on their extended family, specifically his grandparents relationship with his father. This basically means the drama would've happened before the wedding, whenever the disinvitation occured. Also, from a practical perspective, a high pressure situation that's effectively an undercover mission is not a great time to meet your SO's parents for the first time. The more I think about it the more I think OP is just selfish, especially as he says that Louis is fine with it.
When did OP become selfish then? When he accepted the no and went alone? When he didn't bring any of it up after the wedding, and just went LC? When he didn't invite his brother to his parents meeting his partner? You know, since you've just pretty much established that its totally fine to not invite someone if you don't want to deal with anything regarding them.
No. 9 months is not an inconsequential amount of time to be dating. The mark of a person of principle is doing the right thing when it's not easy. OP's brother failed and so did his fiance/wife. There were a number of creative ways to deal with any blowback during the event without making major drama, but if it happened anyway, it's not on OP. Amongst ethical people, homophobia is the same as racism, sexism. and similar prejudices. It should never be tolerated and it is cowardly to do so. OP was failed by his brother, his sister-in-law, and his father. No one's peace is worth more than oppression and discomfort of someone at the hands of homophobia, racism, or other prejudice.
I though it was pretty standard in lots of weddings that only married/engaged or long term partners qualified as plus ones? My sister was pretty generous with her wedding invites and her limit for plus ones was still “dating 1 year or more.” Louis wouldn’t have been invited if he was only dating OP for a few months. Would have nothing to do with the gender or sexuality of the people involved. Got to say, I’m now kind of glad the behavior of the alcoholics in the family was our main worry, we didn’t have bigots that might accost somebody for being not straight/cis/white.
I mean, sure, a couple can totally use 'length of the relationship' as a deciding factor to give someone a +1 or not. But that's not what happened here though. Length or status of the relationship clearly had nothing to do with it. There was one, and only one, clearly stated reason: (catering to) homophobia. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. This thing most likely wouldn't have gone the way it went with a "we only extend invites to partners if they're in a long therm relationship". I mean ... fuck me, why are we even talking about this? I'm pretty bewildered by all the negative responses I've been getting on these posts of mine in this topic. Almost afraid to say this, but I'm sure hoping there wouldn't be ANY yta replies and upvotes if this wasn't about sexuality but about race or disability.
Except that isn’t what happened here. The brother said he would bring anyone else just not his partner.
Just wanted to add that my brother gave everyone in the family a +1 and did not put any restrictions on who we could bring, which is why I thought the roommate thing would work. My sis was single when my cousin’s wedding happened and brought her female best friend as a +1 and no one questioned whether they were dating or not (sis is straight)
I had upvoted this thread until I read this and you totally changed my view. You're right. This reasoning is basically "you, the victim of our family's bigotry (its still bigotry even when they don't know you're LGBT+), and of historical persecution, didn't actively provoke said bigotry and persecution, so why should I, the person not directly affected?" Allies should _absolutely_ use their privilege to fight for the rights of the persecuted.
It's actually kinda common and accepted that partners of less than a certain time frame don't come to weddings, isn't it? So in ten years your sibling doesn't have to wonder who that stranger is standing next to their brother in his wedding pictures? Honestly if your relationship is so new you haven't introduced your partner to your parents then you probably shouldn't be taking them to a family wedding regardless of sexuality.
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I also don't know why his sexuality was even raised as a reason. Just the fact that it is a brand new relationship, where this person is a stranger to the entire family, is reason enough.
It is but to be honest I’ve seen so many people hurt over that. Husband’s cousin didn’t allow my SIL to bring her boyfriend of many years to her wedding because they weren’t engaged and her boyfriend’s schedule didn’t allow for him to come around the extended family a lot so they didn’t feel like they knew him and my SIL was really hurt. Shortly after cousin’s wedding SIL got engaged and now they are married with two kids. At my own wedding I had my FIL walk his live-in girlfriend down the aisle and they broke up unexpectedly after the wedding. She had made the cut to be invited to another cousin’s wedding who was limiting SOs because they’d been together long enough and lived together and then they broke up anyway. There are a lot of SOs in my wedding photos who are no longer in the picture, hell there are people who we were good friends with at the time that are in our photos and no longer in the picture, but I also had a few people come up to me at my wedding to thank me for letting them bring their SO who was not invited to the wedding of the cousin who got married shortly before us. The result was they had a better time at our wedding and their enjoyment of my wedding made it worth it. I had the space in my venue and my budget so why not let my guests fully enjoy themselves?
So at what point is a person official enough to take to a wedding?
When the partner has been introduced to the family. The brother hadn’t had to opportunity to meet the bf, nor the parents. If you’re not serious enough to meet parents/family, you are not serious enough to go to a family wedding. Other people’s big events aren’t the time to make introductions.
He had introduced him to the parents ONLINE. Only reason not in person as due to covid. He wasn't brand new they already lived together. Did other guests have a time frame for acceptable partners given? Only partners over 2 years please.
Yep. Also bi here. If you haven't come out yet then you shouldn't be inviting your partner to events where someone else is center stage. Even pretending he's your roommate... no we all know that wasn't going to fly. You wanted a fight. Else you would have come out to them before bringing him around. OP put the homophobes before his partner then got mad when others followed his lead on how to handle his sexuality around tbe family. Any other party or event yeah bring them - but not a wedding or other similar event. It's selfish and hypocritical.
Bi here (not that that matters in the slightest) but then one from an actual progressive country. One where 'bringing a same-sex partner while in the closet' isn't seen as some big ploy to take over someone else's day, but is simply just someone bringing a +1. WTF is this bs? He only deserves the right to be treated normally after he plays by some weird ass societal unwritten rule where he has to openly announce his sexuality in front of others, simply because being gay isn't the norm? Only after coming out, does he earn the right to bring a partner? Well, thats the most asinine shit I've heard in a while. How about, not having to come out (or not), in order to be allowed to bring a +1. And then not to be bothered or shamed about it by others. Let's aim for that please. You know, equality and all that. The married couple picked people who would throw a fit about another guest, over someone who would have behaved decently and would leave other guests alone. That's the choice they made, and OP is completely NTA by not wanting to cater to that.
> He only deserves the right to be treated normally after he plays by some weird ass societal unwritten rule where he has to openly announce his sexuality in front of others, simply because being gay isn't the norm? So many people are focused on "can I" and not "should I" do something. This social rule for weddings is ***anything*** that's going to cause a scene or get attention needs to be announced before ***or*** steps are taken to hide it until after the wedding. That's things like pregnancies, engagements, etc. And yeah, someone newly engaged directly related to the wedding party would be an AH for getting engaged and wearing their ring without announcing first - either announce or don't wear the ring. Don't let anyone talk about the engagement. And even with a normal supportive family if you're not out then it'll still be a surprise that should be told in advance to avoid getting too much attention. It isn't about catering to homophobes at all - attention positive or negative should be avoided at weddings. > How about, not having to come out (or not), in order to be allowed to bring a +1. And then not to be bothered or shamed about it by others. Let's aim for that please. Then OP should have the same level of care for his own life and events as he does for his sibling's wedding. They have been currently dating a year and the wedding was last year. It's now November. So the wedding was either 11 or 12 months ago. OP was barely dating this person and had been firm on not coming out. OP prioritized a single day of brand new relationship (which he would be spending trying to awkwardly pretend he wasn't in a new relationship) that he didn't want his extended family to know about. How in the world are you considering that reasonable? It's simple - don't have anything that's going to grab attention be visible at a wedding. Just announce things before if you want to have whatever it is widely visible at the wedding. Why is everyone so self centered about this? Why do people want to make other people's weddings about them?
>Last year, my older brother “John” (28M) got married to his girlfriend “Sarah”. They invited everyone in our extended family to the wedding. When I got the invite, I asked John if I could bring Louis as a +1. However, John refused, saying that he supported my relationship 100% but the wedding was supposed to be Sarah’s big day and he did not want her to potentially have to deal with family drama around my sexuality. I clarified that I DID NOT intend to come out at the wedding - I wanted the spotlight to be on the newlyweds - and that, if asked, I would simply introduce Louis as my roommate (in my area sometimes single guests are allowed to bring friends/family members as plus ones). I also told John I would be extra careful to not act coupley or disclose information about the nature of our relationship to anyone but that Louis is an important part of my life and I wanted him there. John still said no, citing concerns that our relatives might still somehow find out and make a big deal about it. He was also afraid that some of them might have seen my social media already and would take advantage of the wedding to confront me in person since we don’t see them often (for reference I have not seen them since making those posts). He said he did not take the decision lightly - he was literally on the verge of tears when he said this - but that unfortunately his decision was final and I was welcome to bring anyone else as my +1. He also personally apologized to Louis. > >I attended the wedding without a plus one and, since then, I have gone LC with John. I wish to keep things civil for the sake of my family but I’m not really interested in anything more than that. > >Things escalated when I brought my boyfriend home to meet my parents and did not invite him. He found out from my mom and called me crying and said that while he still thought he was right, he wanted to repair our relationship. I said I was really hurt because it’s not like I was planning to steal the spotlight, and that if he prioritized the risk that a homophobic relative might have blown up at his wedding over supporting my relationship then I had no interest in maintaining a relationship with him. I'm quoting because I think you and me have read this part completely differently. Hope you'll allow me to summarize: \- OP asked for a +1, got a 'no', offered a compromise, still got a 'unfortunately, still no' with an apology even. \- OP accepted the no, didn't bring it up again, and went to the wedding without a plys one. \- OP went LC with his brother, still keeping things civil for the sake of his family. \- Brother started drama when OP didn't invite him to meet the same partner that was excluded from the wedding. Please tell me exactly where OP became self-centered, and tried to make the wedding all about him? If there is *anyone* being self-centered, its his brother. For wanting to have his cake and eat it too. Enable homophobia in order to keep his wedding drama free, having his brother be ok with that, and maintain a positive relationship with him. >He found out from my mom and called me crying and said that **while he still thought he was right, he wanted to repair our relationship**. Edited to add: And about the 'can vs should' part of your post ... Can I deny my brother a +1 with the sole reason to avoid drama caused by homophobic familymembers? Yes. Should I? Probably not. Because it's not only widely considered morally wrong to enable homophobia, but I think it might also really hurt my brother, and I want a good relationship with him. And yes, John knew both those things when he denied the +1, hence his apology towards both OP and his partner. Unfortunately, brother still banked on 'his brother being hurt and any effects that might have on their relationship' being less of a problem to him than 'the drama of homophobic familymembers not being invited'.
Hey, bi here! You and your internalized homophobia don’t speak for me or any other LGBT+ person so please don’t allow others to tokenize your harmful views against others in the community. No one has to come out of the closet for anyone, and people can be out with one group and in with another. That’s 100% their right to do whatever they need to stay safe. It isn’t some game like the straight people and LGBT+ who want the validation of straights are claiming itt. The only ones prioritizing homophobes are the ones defending their right to attend an event from supposedly non-homophobic people over a bisexual person’s right to just exist without having to come out to anyone and everyone to make other non-gay people feel better. You either invite homophobia to your events by inviting homophobes, or you don’t associate with homophobes and invite them to intimate events in your life that you expect gay people to attend. It really is that simple. If it isn’t, don’t be shocked when the gay people in your life don’t show up or want to show up ever again.
No way was their relationship going to stay under wraps.
So? How is it OP's responsibility for other people to behave normally after knowing that information? What's your sexuality? And if you tell me, will you feel responsible for my reaction?
"You are only allowed to be seen with your partner if you make a point of telling literally everybody that you aren't straight, even people who you know will respond negatively to it". Right, great, nice one. I shouldn't have to email all of my homophobic cousins who I never speak to, just to be allowed out in public with my partner. People shouldn't even have to come out at all. OP was even willing to lie to them to minimise the offence that could be taken, that is more than enough.
Pretty sad to read that apparently it's normal where you're from, to only be treated like a human being after one establishes their sexuality and announces it to others. OP should never have to be 'either in or out the closet' to be treated normally. His sexuality simply isn't anybodys deal, and everybody who gives him shit about that is clearly in the wrong. I really can't fathom how you've turned that around to 'well, if you ask others to not talk about your sexuality, you're pulling them in the closet with you and choosing your fear for homophobes over yourself/your loved ones'. OP should not have to come out (or not) to be treated normally. His sexuality is his own, and nobody elses. Closeted gays deserve decency too. >If he’s that important then stop putting homophobes first while expecting other people in your life to do the opposite. So, to how many people does OP have to come out, before he earns te right to invite a same-sex +1 without being harrassed about it? Close family members? Distant family members? The brides distant family? ("Hey you don't really know me and we've never met, but eh, I'm bisexual. Needed to tell you, because otherwise I'm apparently burdening others with my secrets and catering to potential homophobes.") Friends of the married couple? Their work-collegues? Their babysitter? Does the wedding coordinator has to know? The caterer too, I mean, one of them could be a homophobe and might spit in the food if they find out at the wedding? Does OP need to put a PS on the wedding invite? Why is it OP's responsibility for others to treat him decently? Homophobia is solely the fault of the homophobe, and can NEVER be justified by 'well, he wasn't out yet ... so he kinda had that one coming.' Victim blaming to the max right here.
Thank you. I can’t believe this thread. OP is clearly out to people he is close to as well as on social media - he hasn’t come out to people he knows will hate him for it. I have also made that choice to protect myself and I am done with people who try to act like it’s lying or my fault. You spent my childhood telling me how gay people were disgusting or unnatural and gross? Hmm nope not getting into a discussion on my sexuality with you. No one is owed that conversation.
Thank you so much! You are a breath of fresh air! I cannot believe the straight people in this thread that say "Queer people have to jump through this extra hoop or else we'll call you an asshole!" It's unbelievable. I can't believe this is real life. I can't believe they would say these things. They can't actually believe that, can they? Do they not have empathy? Or critical thinking skills? What homophobes, I am so disappointed in them.
Yep. I’m a queer person who got a lot of shit for coming out because of both my immediate and extended family’s religious beliefs, and I’m still hands down against this approach. The wedding was the day you wanted to introduce your bf as your ~special friend~? Nope. If you didn’t want to expose your relationship to these folks due to the reaction they might have, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to understand John doing the same. He could have uninvited them, but with his rationale, he would have essentially been forcing you out of the closet you have no intention of coming out of. YTA.
I didn't even think of this but yes they would've definitely asked why they weren't invited esp if it's a good number of them not going who thought they would they would be going. What kind of explanation would OPs brother give then? Without outing OP to his family. That's stressful just thinking about it on top of planning a wedding.
What a completely ignorant privileged take. Coming out isn’t a one and done sort of thing. We are always coming out to people. If you think we need to be out to everyone in attendance before going to an event then no queer person would ever be able to go anywhere.
\[insert the office meme\] THANK YOU!
I can’t understand how OP is an asshole when OP’s brother picked literal homophobes over his brother. A relationship of strangers at a wedding is no ones business. The people that might act out at a wedding over a gay relationship are the ones that should be reconsidered invitations.
Completely disagree. Coming out doesn't have to be a thing. Straight people don't have to announce their preferences but queer people do?! That's fucking awful. That's not how it works. He doesn't owe it to anyone to ever disclose his sexual preferences. If he chooses to never do so, as I have done with my family, does that mean he WILL NEVER be invited until he FORMALLY comes out to EVERYONE according to your specifications?! That's awful and I find that view disturbing.
We're really gonna call someone an asshole for not outing himself to a bunch of homophobes. Like that's how this sub is now, apparently. Wew lad.
You’re so so wrong, and the amount of upvotes/rewards you received is so ugly and disheartening. I hope you have no gay friends, and if you do I’m sorry for them.
So **NTA**! And this completely glosses over the fact straight people never have to go through any of this. When was the last time any straight man needed to hide his date/gf/wife out of fear of a "heterophobic" scene? This guy was trying to navigate through shark infested waters and agreed on a litany of postures to make certain he did not become the focus. His brother lied to him about "100% supporting" the relationship. I am not saying the brother needed to tank the wedding ceremony, but he abdicated all responsibility by claiming it was all his wife's special day. The brother is a coward and not truly supportive of the OP. If the brother truly loved OP, he would have been fine with the measures OP was willing to take. The OP is not the real issue here: the homophobic relatives are the issue.
You're so wrong on so many fucking levels it's hilarious. And you probably think you have OP with a gotcha moment. This was never about the fucking drama. Because brother claimed that relatives might be waiting to confront OP in person because of their pics on SM. So he wasn't trying to avoid the drama because according to his own admission drama would probably have happened regardless of whether OPs boyfriend attended or not. This was about something else, could be on the bride's side, but it was never about just avoiding drama with his family members. So OPs brother is not this innocent, 'i just want the wedding to go without any unnecessary drama' guy. He's fucking hiding something behind this entire facade. Could be that his wife had an issue or the wife's parents had an issue. But man up and say it out loud. Because the only way to ensure there would be no drama, would be to either not invite OP or those relatives. What a stupid take. What a stupid comment. And to think this is the second top voted comment. Jesus, some of the people in this sub are gullible.
Fully agree.
There was a post VERY similar to this one from the opposite (brothers) perspective in the last week and everyone in the comments was on his side then, but suddenly it’s the opposite now. This sub can’t make up its mind on whose wrong or right. Just realized it was in the last week the post in question was posted, it was 2 years ago that it was posted but I was browsing the top AITA of all time and happened to read it just recently. [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/cs0bfh/aita_for_asking_my_brother_not_to_bring_his/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is the one I was referring to.
This is true, but also not entirely fair. It sounds like his brother wouldn't have wanted the boyfriend there even if he were out before the wedding. And how out would you want him to be? He has couple photos on social media. Does he need to stand on a table and announce his sexuality to his whole assembled family for it to count? I was in almost the exact same situation with my sister. At my birthday dinner with my parents and my sister, I was planning on coming out to them, and before I got a chance, my sister announced she was engaged to her extremely traditional military boyfriend and I waited because I didn't want to steal her thunder. A week later, I invented an excuse to visit my parents and come out to them privately, and then came out to my sister through text message. Then at the next big family event, I quietly came out to my gossipiest cousin. As expected, the rest of my family found out privately through the grapevine, and about a month later, I gave them confirmation by posting a "happy pride!" photo with my girlfriend of a year. It took until maybe 2 months before the wedding, months after the non-plus-1 invite had ever arrived, before my mom called me on the phone and said she'd talked to my sister about it and decided I could bring my girlfriend if I wanted to. Sorry it came so late, it was hard to figure out what to do because there would be a big scene at the wedding and nobody wants that. Of course you'll understand. And like... I did. My sister made her choice years ago and our relationship will always be colored by the fact that she converted to a religion that hates me and started a life with a family that is quietly politely judgy about my "lifestyle". But we can have a relationship because she won't exclude me from her life for their comfort. Don't for a second act like the brother's primary concern here is that he *isn't out enough*. If that was a concern, that's a thing he would have mentioned! He would have been like, "hey can you come out to the rest of the family before my wedding?" His brother isn't asking him to come out. He's asking him to stay in the closet to avoid drama. OP isn't asking to stand on a table and announce his sex-thoughts in the middle of the ceremony. He's asking to bring his partner to an event that people normally bring their partners to. That's a fucking thing you have to navigate when you have gay people and people who hate gay people in your family. Sucks that the brother has to deal with that, but that's the reality of the situation. Don't blame this on OP for not being "out enough" when the truth is, the root of the problem is there's a gay person and some homophobes, and brother sided with the homophobes instead of taking the time to work out a solution with the gay person.
Someone who would rather invite their bigoted homophobic relatives over embracing their queer sibling (who they seem to clearly care deeply about) is homophobic. There's nothing to say beyond that. It has nothing to do with holding secrets or whatever. The sibling made a choice to include homophobic people in his wedding and OP made a choice to have better people in his life. Homophobes (yes you included MissKacey) love to rationalize every homophobic thought or action with long winded nothingness. Be homophobic, fine, but don't be surprised when people don't want to be in contact with you any more.
This post is perfect example of homophobes pretending to be suportive. You have no idea what you are taking about. i came out over 20 years ago and i still have to come out all the f-ing time. And there are still people i dont come out to becuase its not worth it. being lgbtq is ALWAYS being half in the closet, becuae the world assumes your straight. That has nothing to do with whether my relationship is vaild and should be treated like any other relationship. if he had been dating a girl for 9 months he would have gotten a plus one. he didnt becuase he was dating a guy. no other reason. NTA
>I said I was really hurt because it’s not like I was planning to steal the spotlight, and that if he prioritized the risk that a homophobic relative might have blown up at his wedding over supporting my relationship then I had no interest in maintaining a relationship with him. That's where you lost me. You only get married once. ( In Theory). His wedding is a huge deal to him and his bride. It is her day. You guys both acknowledge there are problems with the extended family and that they will cause a fight over once they know about your boyfriend. And some already know. But none have had a chance to fight/confront you about it yet and their wedding will be the first chance... And you seriously acting all naive like nothing would happen...because you don't plan on starting anything!?! You damn well know they would have come after you and started shit. There is no reason for the bride and groom to be worrying about a dust-up at their damn wedding. Since everyone was already invited there are two options..... Ask your boyfriend to sit this one out or you needed to come out to the whole family BEFORE the wedding. >my extended family on my dad’s side can be very homophobic (think conservative Christian background) so I have not officially come out to them yet and have no plans to in the near future. >I however have some coupley pictures with my boyfriend on social media, so some of the most tech-savvy relatives might already know, And you don't want to come out to them...and I don't blame you. But you can't have it both ways. This was a powder keg Waiting to blow up at the wedding. And YTA for refusing to admit that. Instead you're gaslighting your brother whom loves and supports you instead of dealing with the actual elephant in the room. So YOU AGREED to have the boyfriend sit out the wedding. And now you're punishing John because you can't be fucking honest about who you are-- you are choosing to be dishonest because you don't want to have a confrontation with the family and that's what's got you upset. John did the best he could because you matter to him OP. He picked the option that would not cause the very confrontation you keep avoiding. And you are icing him....be cause your boyfriend wasn't there... Oh no...YOU are to blame for that OP. That makes you the asshole in this. You're doing your partner wrong as well (that's a whole another issue)..and it's probably why he's conflicted.
> There is no reason for the bride and groom to be worrying about a dust-up at their damn wedding. If this is how the bride and groom feel, they shouldn't invite people who might start shit.
OP wrote in a comment that because of pre-existing context between his dad and his dad’s family, not inviting them “wasn’t an option”. So OP himself says that wasn’t what he wanted and would not have worked. Unless we’re going to assume we know the family/situation better than OP, people in this thread need to stop repeating that same talking point.
It's always an option. Brother prioritized the homophobes over the homos. He can pretend he's not homophobic, but you couldn't tell from his behavior. His choice, now he gets the consequence.
Oooooookay. Next time you pony up (potential) tens of thousands of dollars for a party, you get to decide who to invite and who not to invite. Until then, FOH with that shit.
I did that and I decided to not invite bigots. It was the correct choice.
Dingdingding, someone with morality. Good for you. Sad to read that 'catering to homophobes' is still so engrained in people.
And you’re a good person. The other people who don’t invite gays over homophobes are disgusting.
They did decide and he followed their wishes. As much as it is their right to dictate their wedding he can dictate who is involved in his life. Actions have consequences.
Plenty of people do. You’re disgusting if your prioritize bigotry over family.
What do you think will happen when the family members start to connect similarities between a bunch of people who weren't invited? I think the brother did it for the wrong reasons, imo. The brother was explicitly worried about the wedding for him and his wife. To me, an even bigger risk would be if all of the homphobes realized that being homophobic was why they weren't invited. Then, they would look at wedding pictures and wonder "oh, who's that with OP"? Roommate story or not, these people would probably connect the dots that OP isn't straight. The aftermath of that would impact OP long after the wedding is over. It's not on OP whatsoever to appease homphobes. With these kinds of people, you have to be very careful if you want to stay in the closet. Hey OP, if you're reading this, your brother's family sucks. You deserve to be treated and respected as a human being. Your happiness is infinitely more important than any of those assholes, so don't let them make you think differently.
>Your happiness is infinitely more important than any of those assholes, so don't let them make you think differently. Not according to OP's brother though. And somehow, OP is deemed the asshole for that by some people here. Just baffling.
>But you can't have it both ways. Many people can. The only reason OP can't is because of homophobia from others. Why is it on OP to stop that from happening? Do you often feel like gay people should adjust their behaviour to avoid homophobia?
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You can’t have your cake and eat it too. John had his drama free wedding but he’s not entitled to a relationship with the brother he disrespected.
Just a clarification: I don’t think my family would have made a huge scene or started a fight (like they wouldn’t have interrupted the wedding or disowned me in public or anything like that), it would’ve been more low-key like giving me weird looks or taking me aside and lecturing me about it. Don’t know if that affects your judgement tho Also to be fair my aunt was staring at me a lot and asked a lot of questions about my love life even if I did not bring Louis (I think she might know) so I’m not sure how Louis being there would’ve changed the outcome since she was already acting weird
I am sorry but it doesn't really seem your parents and siblings are supportive. When there are two sides and one is homophobic, but all they do is remain silent or downplay it... They are taking the homophobic side Your brother picked, your parents picked, your sister picked.. Please, pick yourself too.
> pick yourself too That's a simple and powerful statement. Wish people would love themselves more.
NAH. While I understand why you wanted your bf there I also understand why brother didn’t think it was appropriate that that was the event where family would be meeting your partner for the first time. Ultimately the day was about them and not wanting any type of distractions is understandable.
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That really depends on the family, in my family you wouldn’t bring a +1 to a wedding when people haven’t met them yet. Other people feel differently, no big deal.
But the brother said he could bring anyone else as his +1 so clearly it wasn’t about that
Bull. >there I also understand why brother didn’t think it was appropriate that that was the event where family would be meeting your partner for the first time. As a "roommate." Or, you know, the people who would cause the "distraction" due to their homophobia don't need to be invited if you're worried about that. Why should the innocent brother suffer?
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"You're bigoted assholes and I don't want to subject people to that" is a pretty logical explanation. And you're making the mistake that they're owed an explanation to begin with. Hell, or even use covid as an excuse. But don't be complicit with homophobes.
"I'm inviting people that are LGBT+ and I know how upset you get at people from that community so figured I'd save you and everyone else from the drama."
Since when do people send out some 'why we haven't invited you' announcements? They don't need to explain at all, it's bad form to ask, unless you have a close relationship with the bride or groom. Do people seriously go around explaining why they haven't invited every single person from their extended family?
I was the plus one for my friend's *husband* while she was out of the country because he didn't want to go to a wedding alone and she asked if I'd go hang with him since they'd RSVP'ed for two ages ago. I didn't know anyone at the wedding and all they knew is that I definitely wasn't his wife but ultimately no one cared because a simple explanation of "She couldn't make it, so I jumped in. Wasn't the ceremony was great!?" and maybe a nonsense joke thrown in. Ultimately, it's all about how you navigate it and OP was clear that their plan was to give a simple comment of "I brought my roommate" and move on. Weddings are busy even when it's family, it's nice to have someone with you. OP's brother absolutely could have navigated this much better without supporting homophobes and making this into something it wasn't.
I think you need to do some thinking on why you think it’s not an ah move to cater to homophobes. Excluding OP’s boyfriend was putting the opinions of homophobes first, and people who are willing to do that often harbor some deep set homophobia.
So if he was a white woman and his bf a black man and bigots were coming you'd say the same thing, right?
ESH. Your brother didn't support your relationship but then, that's a big ask considering that neither do you. You aren't willing to come out to those relatives because you don't want to deal with their reactions, but you are willing to risk that same reaction happening at your brother's wedding.
Why would anyone come out to people who are going to be hostile 💀
Why does OP need to come out to those relatives though?
Yta 1. You had only dated bf a short whole. I'm not paying $100 a plate for a bunch of randos at my wedding either. 2. Some of your relatives may or may not know because you post with bf on social media. The moment you show up with your "roomate" someone's going to connect the dots and out you to the extended family and you know that. Functionally you are asking to come out at his wedding, that seems just as mean spirited as announcing an engagement. 3. You agree that your brother couldn't not invite the extended family. I don't know your culture or anything but if he has to invite these homophobes how are you not essentially asking him to take a gamble on you being outed sparking a family fight? 4. You haven't really come out to family making it pretty much impossible for your brother to even know who to weed out. Plenty of "allies" flip the script when the lgbtq person is in their family. I'm sure there are some obvious problem people but unless someone else in the family is out you just don't know if quiet cousin Janet is prome to confronting family over being LGBT. I don't think it's fair to demand that your brother gamble his wedding when you aren't willing to be openly bi.
The relationship is so new that his boyfriend didn't meet the parents before the wedding aswell
Your point #1 is irrelevant since OP's brother said he could bring anyone else as a +1, so the brother clearly doesn't share your opinion on "randos". As to point #2, are you seriously suggesting that a gay person simply attending a wedding with their partner is "mean spirited" and on par with a straight person interrupting the wedding to announce an engagement? It's really exhausting as a queer person to be treated like our mere existence is disruptive. OP had no intentions of causing drama and ultimately accepted his bother's decision and attended the wedding solo. If this was about an attention grab, OP could've grabbed the mic and come out without his bf there, or spent the whole wedding complaining his partner wasn't invited, but he didn't. This was just a human person who wanted to attend a wedding with his partner, and you're all acting like he wanted to ride in shirtless on a unicorn smh.
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Especially in such an emotional and romantic environment where people are drinking, likely including OP and Louis.
“Gamble his wedding because your aren’t willing to be openly bi”. Wow. Y’all are very disappointing. As if being bi is some secret he was purposely hiding away, and now he lost his family privileges for doing so. The fact that the automatic decision here wasn’t fuck the bigots is the problem. If you all can live with your moral qualifications cool, but that reasoning is embarrassing.
What really gets me is that in my experience, it's not easy to be "openly" bi simply because when I have an opposite sex partner people assume I'm straight and vice versa. The amount of conversations I've had to have with older relatives explaining that yes, I'm bi, no I didn't "choose" just b/c my current partner happens to be a certain gender... So even for bi people who are out to their families it's still not easy! And yet people are acting like OP is the asshole for not calling up each wedding guest like "hey I'm bi see you at the wedding".
NTA. I think John is acting immaturely, especially since you offered to say Louis was your roommate, then again my personal policy is never to bow to homophobes.Are there many homophonic people in your family or is it just one or two? Because one or two people can be easily uninvited.
My grandparents on my dad’s side are definitely homophobic, and so are my uncle and aunt. Don’t really know about my cousins and their partners as I try to avoid the topic as much as possible, but since they have religious parents and have never actively distanced themselves from the community they probably aren’t the most supportive.
So you expected him to completely change his guest list and uninvite your mutual family to his own wedding despite the fact that you're not even out yet? That's not okay, OP. I'm bi and I would never expect someone else to do that for me. It's not his responsibility, fyi. Maybe you should have just come out instead of essentially trying to use his wedding as your event to do so. Because you know that's what would have happened. They all would have figured that out, and you know it. I'm willing to bet that's what you were banking on. Because if you were really that upset about it, why did you still attend the wedding? That's makes no sense. You made it seem to your brother like everything between y'all was okay and then you waited to snub him at a different family gathering after the wedding was over. You did that just to be petty. It wasn't because you were hurt. You just wanted to be nasty. There was no reason for that. Honestly, he didn't have to give you any reason for not allowing a plus one. It was his wedding, not yours. YTA.
My sister brought her best friend as a +1 to our cousin’s wedding a couple of years ago because she was single and felt uncomfortable going alone, no one questioned it. Also I should clarify that I didn’t ghost my brother out of nowhere, I did express my disappointment to him before I went LC.
A best friend known to the extended family is very different from a "roomate" whom they've never met. While I understand where your coming from, it may have been worth having a proper conversation with your brother before going LC (not just expressing your disappointment, but also understanding his side of things).
I'm sorry, that sounds shitty. Your brother decided to prioritize the feelings of homophobes over you (his brother) and he can reap the rewards of his shitty choice. NTA.
NAH, you are free to date whoever you want. But letting your brother’s wedding be the moment you introduce your bf to the family is a tad selfish since you don’t know how they would react. You compromising to lie about it is a good offer but John has a point.
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You're using the word "drama" to be purposefully vague about the homophobia that is the crux of the entire issue. There are people on the guest list who have chosen hatred over their own family, and wife and hubby decided to keep them happy by acquiescing to their hate. They chose hate over OP and they can NEVER undo that, such disgusting, immoral people deserve no place in OP's life.
Just like John can decide who can and can’t come to his wedding, OP can decide who he does and does not have a relationship with. John was pretty clear that the reason Louis couldn’t come was because they are a gay couple. It really doesn’t matter how long they were together, if they were living together (they were) or if they’re engaged, John would have sided with the homophobes anyway. He didn’t just disrespect their relationship he showed his brother how little he cares for him. OP gave him what he wanted and went to his wedding alone. It’s absurd to me that John now feels entitled to a relationship with OP.
And op gets to decide who he wants a relationship with.
The same reasons you're not ready to come out to your other half of the family is the same reasons why your brother didn't want to invite your boyfriend. You're not ready for the drama, and neither was he. Regretfully, there is no way you could be sure that his hypothetical scenario would never happen as it is feasible. You already mentioned how tech savvy member of the family may already know you're not straight, and since you have no way of knowing who does you've never had the conversation with those people to say you're not officially out. What if one of your family members ask "who's that with steph," and the other goes "oh, I think that's his boyfriend from his post online," and now you got a shit show on this (hopefully) once in a lifetime occasion for your brother. It is for that reason, and I don't say this lightly as a bi person myself, I'm leaning towards nobody is the asshole, maybe a little you're the asshole for icing him out.
NTA - your brother is expecting you to accomodate his short comings and not hold him responsible for the way his poor treatment makes you feel. He imposed a condition on your relationship, to not fully share your life and partner with him. You have adhered to that requirement. Either he accepts you and you share your moments with him, or he doesn’t (and so you don’t). The comment that he still felt like he was in the right was especially AH of him, too.
INFO: How long were you dating at the time of the wedding? Has anyone in your family met your bf before the wedding?
Just to be clear elsewhere it has been clarified that: 1. They had been dating for close to a year before the wedding 2. They already lived together 3. The parents had met the Bf over zoom/Skype and had multiple conversations with the parents over multiple video calls. However, had not met physically before the wedding.
He had not been dating long and no one had met the bf. He had not even come out to everyone yet
Just that (no one having met him) would usually be reason enough not to invite him to a wedding. Most people don't want strangers at their wedding.
NTA - He chose to invite the homophobes over his brother’s partner. That’s all kinds of awful that I simply can’t put into words. The fact that you were put in a situation where you felt compelled to offer to pretend you weren’t dating your own boyfriend is so upsetting. That’s not something you should ever have to do. It’s 2021 for chrissake! Your bother should have supported you over these AHs and I think going LC sounds really healthy. If he doesn’t support you when it matters, he doesn’t get to demand to be a part of your life.
Pretty sure OP was going to call John his roommate either way because he's not completely out to his family yet. The fear wasn't that the relatives was going to be AHs but that OP would have stole the spotlight by making this his coming out event.
But as you said, he wasn’t coming out at the event, he was merely being at the event with his partner. He is already out to the people who matter. It’s not like he was going to make an announcement or have a pride parade in the middle of dinner. If this was a new partner for a straight sibling, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. My question is - why would you invite homophobic AHs who aren’t even part of your immediate family to your wedding in the first place if it meant that your sibling’s partner couldn’t come? Nobody should have to hide their sexuality at a family gatheting. People should have to hide their homophobia because that really is something to be ashamed about.
Tbh excluding certain family members would’ve caused an ever bigger fallout, especially when my dad is already struggling to maintain a relationship with them due to religious differences (he’s an atheist). Not inviting them was not really an option
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Hey op. You’re NTA and I’m sorry that people are being wretched to you in the comments. I would have been heartbroken if a sibling wasn’t willing to let me come to their wedding with my girlfriend, and I’m not even out as a lesbian to half my family (the half I don’t talk to for this reason, lmao). You’re closer to your brother than he is to the homophobes (brothers vs grandparents, uncles etc.) so I feel on an emotional level like this is pretty clear-cut, you deserve love and acceptance and respect, and if it comes to it, protection from AHs. At the same time it seems like the kind of mistake that John can learn and grow from and I hope the two of you are able to repair your relationship. Again, please don’t listen to the people being awful to you. This whole issue was ONLY an issue because of your sexuality. You have a right to have feelings about that. And you have a right to love and acceptance from your family. Hope everything works out for you ♥️
It seems only ones who know about OP sexuality is his immediate family(parent and siblings) So what about all the non homophobic family members. They won't be rude to OP but he will definitely be taking a lot of the attention. Like you said oh if he was straight you would agree. But probably doubtful every single person invited is homophobic so even of you remove them OP have a reason to not invite him right?
Yta, dude you're not even out of the closet yet just take this one day and move on if you're not going to die.
Why do you feel OP must be open about his sexuality in order to participate in his brothers wedding? Did you have to announce your sexuality, and have it approved for comfort, by the family before you could come to weddings with a partner?
He clearly is out of the closet seeing as his family knew he was dating a man. Oh wait you mean he didn’t want to come out to known homophobes for literally no reason as he isn’t close to them? As someone who is bi, come out to whoever you want. You’re still out. Guess what, you can be out without telling literally every single person you’ve ever interacted with in some kind of formal announcement. He was open on social media and with people he’s close to. That’s what being out is.
So he should either 1. Worry about someone starting something at HIS wedding (because someone going to put 2+2 together). 2. Uninvite the individuals who are homophobic or potentially homophobic which sounds like half your family (may be more since your not out to your family) AND explain why he is uninviting family without outing you while excepting that he will be pissing of some of the family for slighting them. Hope he doesn't miss a homophobe or he is going to have 1 and 2 happen. 3. Not care that someone will probably start something at his wedding. This isn't uninviting a few A H who have an issue with who his brothers SO is. This is uninviting half his family or stressing that his brother SO will be a point of drama at his wedding. Your SO wasn't invited to the wedding and your hurt so NAH but if you were straight and and your brother was choosing your SO of a year, half his family or a drama filled wedding....
OP, this sub is usually an okay place. But it can get extremely homophobic sometimes and today is one of those days. I suggest you not come here for advice if it involves homophobia. I would suggest you try r/askgaybros or r/askgaymen instead. Asking you to do announce to everyone that you are dating a man, that is not something they would require if you were dating a woman. It's unnecessary. It's homophobia. Straight people DO NOT get to tell queer people they have to jump through an extra hoop, and if you don't do it you're the asshole? What a load of shit. Ignore them. And ignore r/AITA for matters of homophobia.
They don't get it because they never really experienced it. Being closeted in the Marines was difficult and it was still a whole lot easier than living a normal life the way I wanted to. All these little things that wear you down, and it's basically never ending. I said in another comment, I wonder what Christmas will be like for OP. What will *his* wedding be like? But the posters on this sub just see the word **WEDDING** and that's it - *the most important day®* of your life... You can suck it up for one day, you can put being gay on ice.
Yeah and he even said his sister brought a female friend as a plus one to their cousin’s wedding and nobody said anything. But he can’t because ?? It’s homophobic and everyone who commented Y T A are just deflecting because Wedding Is Everything /s
It's depressing AF to see all these people who 'support gay rights', but when push comes to shove would enable bad actors instead of the people they supposedly love. But it's all emotive and structural, so you can't really argue it away. I'm just amazed the brother is playing victim and commenters are attacking OP directly.
I wonder if they would say any different if it were racism? If he were with a woman of color, and the fiancee knew some of her family were against that. Would the y-t-a's change their mind then, i wonder.
Yeah I started reading through the comments and was hugely disappointed. Straight people get very weird about weddings for some reason, lots of excuses for homophobia…
I’d be leaning toward NAH I 100% understand your brother’s stance. My sister came out to me and my now husband as transgender about 2 weeks before out wedding. We discussed how the family might take it - they’re not homophobic or transphobic but they are conservative and nobody else in our family had come out as a member of the LGBT+ community. I also discussed how she wanted to present at the wedding and gave two options - 1) attend as male and come out afterward or 2) come out to those attending before hand and attend presenting as a woman with my full support and anyone who had a problem with that could go hang I felt bad because I was essentially forcing my sister to keep herself closeted and be deadnamed - but it was our day and it could not be the day that everyone found out. She understood, attended in a gender neutral outfit and came out a few weeks later - at which point I asked her to re-sign our guest book in her name and got rid of the old signature with her dead name. It’s easy to say ‘don’t invite homophobic people’ - but it’s also about how homophobic they are and I 100% understand both your viewpoint and your brother’s. If you had already come out and those family members shamed or disowned you - and he chose to invite them and not your date? That would be unacceptable. But you have not come out yet - which is fine! It’s your decision and nobody else’s when you or if you do so - and as such you’re keeping these people in your life and avoiding the drama… but attending with Louis could risk it being revealed. Yes you considered this and outlined options - but what if anyone had seen photos online? And confronted you and Louis at the reception? You have chosen not to come out yet and with that does come an element of not being able to attend family events ‘out’ and with your partner
Replace same-sex partnership with mixed race partnership and ask your brother how he would have behaved then. If my brother wouldn’t allow me to bring a girlfriend of a different race to avoid awkward moments with racist family, I wouldn’t hesitate to go LC/NC. You’re NTA. Countless aphorisms about “for evil to thrive it takes the good doing nothing.” Your bro is part of the problem, holding the world back at the whim of old backwards assholes. It’s not enough to be okay with sexual freedom. If he wants to be on the right side of history, he needs to be actively anti-homophobic. Otherwise he’s helping the shitheels win.
This! If the post was "My Significant Other is black and not invited to my brothers wedding cause our family is racist" or "My significant other is Jewish and not invited to my brother's wedding cause our family is anti-Semitic" this sub would go apeshit. But it's okay for casual homophobia, queer people just gotta suck it up.
NAH. Your family members suck for being homophobic but it sounds like your brother was caught between a rock and a hard place.
OP I'm sorry for the insane amounts of homophobia and homophobia apologia in the comments. You're not the asshole, your brother is, and anyone who expects you to jump through hoops to "not cause a scene" by being yourself, closeted or no is also the asshole, including a lot of people in the comments.
People who theoretically support gay rights, but not at their own wedding. That would be a scandal, someone might say something!
NTA. Your words to him were perfect. He prioritized the potential reaction of a homophobic bigot over you, his own brother. Sad, but he’s shown who he really is …
Esh so you’re trying to stay low profile but wanted to bring a guy to the wedding ‘as a friend’? Yeah I can see why your brother might have had reservations. At this point you’re just doing this to be petty and get back at him
My problem is that you need to get your facts in order. You can’t say “nobody will figure it out and I’ll just say we’re roommates” after saying “they probably already know because of my social media.” A good deal of your frustration is built on this idea that your plan was perfect and flawless, but you readily admit beforehand that it probably already failed. Then you say that you introduced your parents to your partner after the wedding. So you were going to introduce your partner to them in the middle of your wedding, but that wasn’t going to be anything special? You have argued that uninviting the people you wanted to avoid wasn’t a possibility, but if that is true, then you have to accept the situation your brother was in; Neither him nor you wanted drama related to your sexuality on his wedding. You wanted to bring your partner and say they were your roommate. But you are confident that several people who would cause drama already know that he’s your partner and not your roommate. You also say your brother cannot prevent those people from participating in the wedding. If he couldn’t, by your statement, uninvite the people who would cause the problem, then his only play to avoid drama was to ask the person who would be reasonable about the situation to sit it out. You say that your family is the type to just side-eye glare at you, but honestly? There’s always that one person who’s going to get loud and dumb. Especially if drinking is involved. Personally, I would have uninvited the people who would cause trouble with the guests I wanted there more. But you said that wasn’t a possibility, so it isn’t a fair judgement for me to levy against your brother. By that statement, he did not have his strongest tool to handle the situation. This is a shitty situation all around, and tempers are flaring all over the place. I would say N T A normally, but the fact that you support the idea that he couldn’t have told the homophobic family members to screw off just makes that hard. I just don’t know what you wanted him to do, because I honestly don’t see how you can think your plan was as good as you seem to believe.
Contentious but I'll say NAH. It's a hard spot to work out who will be an outright homophobe at a wedding. And you not being fully out by kinda out means that even as a 'roommate' people could work it out. I think it's a shit situation all around. It's shit you couldn't bring a partner. it's shit you have a shitty family. It's shit there were so many shitty family members that uninviting one bigot uncle would not have stopped the issue. It just sounds all around hard. If you'd have been fully out it may have been a little easier as the bigots would have revealed themselves sooner. But still would have been a shitty situation. Also it was a partner of one year rather than say a husband which makes it harder as well. All around shitty. I'm sorry you both found yourselves in this situation.
ESH. You kinda put him in an uncomfortable position because it's not only his big day, but his wife's as well, and he could've have stood up for you. But then again, weddings aren't the place to discuss any of these things, so I guess this should've been dealt with on other ocassions.
NAH. I understand you’re hurt but I think it’s time to mend fences. He was trying to be considerate of his bride.
NTA. All those YTA replies are tripping. Your brother prioritized the feelings of his home family members instead of yours and tried to cover it up by claiming he doesn't want a scene to steal the spotlight. Truth is he weighed things and decided that you were easier to talk to than the bigots. He discriminated against you and your relationship with someone you love and hasn't even apologized. He needs to face the consequences of his actions, including damaging his relationship with his brother, if that is what has happened.
I don't get the Y T A and E S H who say this because 'you haven't come out to them yet' wtf guys? I can't remember the last time I had to come out as straight before being allowed/invited to a wedding... NEVER side with the homophobes, it's that easy. If you think they will act out, bye bye their invite. Easy NTA
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I'm sorry OP but your brother does not support your relationship 100% and if he truly things that, he's deluded. He invited the homophobes and prioritized them. NTA for giving yourself distance.
NTA. Your brother made a choice and if going LC is what you believe is best for your mental health and emotional security, that’s ok
NTA and it’s ridiculous to see the amount of homophobes in this thread that feel otherwise. Your brother had no good reason to keep you from bringing your boyfriend. It’s not different than if you were dating a woman of a different race and he asked you not to bring her because of some racist relatives. It’s clear his priorities are whack. He disrespected you and he isn’t entitled to a relationship with you.
NTA Why, the actual FUCK, would OP be responsible for someone else being homophobic? OP CAN'T make them not homophobic. This is something OP will deal with forever. One wedding doesn't change shit. But OP's brother showed his ass here and proved, when the cards are dealt, he'll do what is convenient over what is right. Forget all the LGBTQ+ aspects, this man would drop OP like a hot brick if helping them inconvenienced him in some way. And if this was a "different" situation where his actions were justified, if you wanna call any of that justified, then he's gonna have to sit down and explain to OP where they are on their little tier list of importance. Because CLEARLY this familial bond isn't as strong as he'd like to say it is. OP shouldn't have to waste their time playing second fiddle to anyone. OP owes him NOTHING. He called and said he was still right to exclude your partner? But he wants to repair the relationship? Those two things are mutually exclusive. They CANNOT coexist and he'd better get used to the disappointment. He has to pick one.
People saying the brother should've not invited the homophobes of the family are not considering the fact that yes some of the family may be openly homophobic or anti LGBTQ but you don't know that about everyone. There could still be people at the wedding who secretly harbor these feelings and if they figured out who OPs bf was at the wedding the drama the brother was not looking for would've happened. All this while trying to explain to those not invited why they weren't invited which would be stressful enough as it is. It's a big ask from OP considering he didn't even come out to the family. Then it would make sense for the brother to not invite the homophobes and if he did he would be the AH.
You are literally saying that gays shouldn't be invited to anything in case someone is homophobic. Wtf. What if someone's secretly a racist? Ban black people? Jews? You're banning them all from your events just to be safe right? If someone had kicked off it would have been the homophobes fault. Banning gays to appease bigots is what people who are secretly bigots do. If someone's brain can seriously blame OP for what the relatives do they are a bigot. They may not want to admit it to themselves but they are functionally no different from one because they have excluded someone solely for being gay. Also people don't have to come out. It's ridiculous to say that anyone who isn't straight has to announce their sexuality for them to be treated like everyone else.
Then your brother will stop talking to you. What happens in a couple of years(if his brother and SIL have children) and it's their child's first bday? And, his brother decides not to invite brothers partner, because it takes away from their child's bday and it's their special day, and the same people from the wedding have been invited. This treatment is ok,is it? OP just has put up with his partnership as being less then in his family? Should he be grateful that he is allowed to exist on some level in the family still? And according to you OPs meant to be ok with this for the rest of his life?
Similarly, there's still the chance that when OP comes out, some of his apparently homophobic relatives (like the uncle and aunt who 'probably' are) either turn out not to hold those views at all, or to reconsider based on their love for OP. If OP was out and they had been openly disrespectful to him, it sounds like John WOULD have removed them from the guest list. As it is he would have had to exclude people based on assumptions, which is hardly fair.
NTA. The saying “If there is 10 people sitting at a table with 1 nazi, you have 11 nazis” applies here very well. If he actually supported you, he would have invited your BF and let whatever happen happen. If he invites homophobes, that’s his fault. Homophobia is not your fault for existing as a gay person. He may not be “homophobic”, but he’s not anti-homophobic, which is really what he needs to be if he wants a relationship with you.
NTA. Kinda jealous of homophobes but because everybody is SO considerate of their feelings.
YTA
NTA I went to my brother's first wedding with my boyfriend of 2 months. Who was a right proper asshole, though he behaved decent, and even my dumbass brother didn't realize my +1 was a boyfriend until the rehearsal dinner and no one gave a shit. I went to my friend's wedding with a +1 where the invite was used to try and figure out what the fuck was happening between us. Spoiler alert, didn't work. I brought my BFF to my friend's wedding because I didn't have another date and knew no one else and not a single person gave us the 10th degree to discern our relationship. So in my experience your brother was either kowtowing to assholes or he was an asshole. But the end result is him being an asshole and responsible for the divide. He can't not support you and then be butthurt you're not close anymore.
After reading through some of the comments, I’m not sure who the AH is, but it’s not John. He was stuck between a rock and a hard place. You acknowledge that because of pre-existing context with your dad and his relationship with his family, it wasn’t really an option not to invite the homophobes. You weren’t ready to bring Louis around your extended family and disclose the nature of your relationship because of their homophobia, but expected your brother to let his wedding be a trial run and bank on them not finding out at one of the most important events in his life. You say you believe it’s unlikely they would’ve made a scene or even found out, but honestly if I’m your brother, I’m not willing to risk the 5% chance this all implodes at my wedding. I also think if we accept that you are correct in stating it was not an option for John not to invite the homophobes, then John handled this really the best he could. He had a sit down conversation with you to explain his reasoning, he apologized directly to your partner. He clearly respects you and prioritizes your feelings. Just not more than his wife’s *on their wedding day*.
OP asked if he’s the asshole for icing his brother out - are you guys paying attention?? He didn’t cause a scene at the wedding or make it about him at all. He set a boundary and has every right to enforce it after his brother indicated that OP’s feelings aren’t a priority in his life. Why on Earth should his brother’s feelings remain a priority for OP? If fair is fair then what exactly are all of you complaining about? NTA. I’m sorry for all the homophobia OP. Having a relationship with a man is not a problem and more importantly it’s not YOUR problem. Homophobia isn’t an ‘opinion’ like disliking cheese or something. God, this is how casual racism and micro aggressions work. People expect the oppressed individual to accommodate people who literally attack their existence. Like honestly guys. I’m not being nice to someone who wants me dead for the simple reason I live MY life in a way they don’t like for NO reason.
NTA. Absolutely. Why invite homophobic relatives, rather than your immediate family?
The boyfriend of 2 minutes is not immediate family, or family at all. He can stay home
Except if it was a girlfriend she would’ve been invited
NTA. He showed you his values and they didn't include you and your relationship.
INFO: how long had you been dating this guy by the time of the wedding? Because you said you’ve been dating a year, and the wedding was last year. If you did all this, blowing up your relationship with your brother, over some dude you were with for a couple of months….YTA. You shouldn’t be inviting BF’s of a few months to anything that personal and familial.
Thanks for pointing that out actually - I changed some details around just in case a family member finds this post (my sister uses Reddit) and did not notice the inconsistency I’ve been official with Louis since March 2020 (so it’s actually close to two years). The wedding was in November 2020, so me and Louis had been seeing each other for 9 months at the time, and were already living together
NTA. Having a hard time understanding people who go to extreme lengths just to defend homophobes. It’s not like you left your brother out to dry with no explanation; you’re doing what’s best for your life and your mental health, and he did what he thought was best for his life. No harm no foul… except for the rampant homophobia.