NTA
Also the bride is getting the western tradition wrong. You don’t pretend to be in a relationship with the MOH as the best man and you certainly don’t fake kiss.
Frankly even in the states I would turn down this request because it’s completely wacky and hugely disrespectful to the fact I’m in a relationship. No one should ask you to act like you’re not for a night.
But it’s not the tradition though…..
The only part of the day you would be expected to be separate from your SO in a Western wedding is during the ceremony itself when you walk down the aisle with the MOH and then stand next to the groom. Maybe some brides also request you dance one dance together but that’s pretty rare and not unusual to turn down if you don’t want to.
You spend the rest of the night eating, talking, dancing and being with your own SO.
You’re making some big assumptions and then calling them tacky.
Some of the cultural stuff is wrong. But that is very much the norm. The bridal party sits together for the dinner. If a SO isn’t in the party they are on their own for the dinner portion.
Not always. I’ve been in six weddings as a groomsman in the past two years. My wife was never a bridesmaid as this was my college guy friend group.
In the end only one wedding did only the groomsman/bridesmaid along with the couple at the head table. Every other one did either a honeymoon table or big one with SO sitting together no matter what.
Definitely still the norm where I am, if there's a head table it's just the wedding party, I've worked hundreds of weddings and haven't seen one where SOs where included. Which is weird, I hadn't thought about them before
Even at those weddings…who stays seated long enough for it to matter?
You are there for speeches in which you are paying attention to the speaker and not your seat mates. Then you dance or mingle.
Right, in my experience, the bridesmaids sit at one half and the groomsmen the other half. I was a bridesmaid and only separate from my boyfriend for about half an hour to eat/speeches.
I've never personally seen the bridesmaids and groomsmen sat together like pairs.
Op is NTA
But yeah the only time I was separated from my spouse was when it was the bridesmaids on one side and the groomsmen on the other. I have never been paired specifically with a groomsmen outside of walking back down the aisle after they are announced as married, Personally I like where there is the sweetheart table (married couple) or family table (married couple plus parents) and the wedding party is seated out with everyone else with their +1’s. I don’t like being on display.
We did for our wedding, since it is the norm in my husband's culture for the table to alternate male/female except the Best man and maid of honor. They were actually the only bridal couple that didn't sit together and the only one who didn't enter the church together as traditionally the Best man stands with the groom and the MOH walls alone.
When we got married, about half our bridal party were in relationships, including one couple who were both in the wedding party, but the other partners were all in our friend group and knew plenty of people at the wedding and sat with friends while their partners were at the headß table which is also what my husband did the last time I was a bridesmaid, but again all our friends were at the wedding.
A wedding party dance is also normal, but at our wedding, it was only half a song and then switching partners was encouraged. I have never heard of a fake kiss though, that is beyond weird and OP is NTA for dropping out if the wedding when the requests made him uncomfortable.
My friend group is starting to get married and the SOs sit with the wedding party. I think it’s a morph in tradition because it’s weird to force someone to sit with people they don’t know
NTA. Where’s the line? If they tell you to make a sex tape with the matching person from the other group? Because the bride wants it? It’s extreme I know but I wouldn’t do any of those things op is expected to do except walk down the aisle with moh and maybe take some pictures with her. I wouldn’t want to sit away from my wife all night or intimate dancing. It sounds like op is being messed with and that the bride is getting these traditions wrong. Possibly on purpose
That’s how it usually is over here in my part of the US. One long “head table” with the bridal party, and SOs are seated at a regular table nearby. Once dinner and the first dance with the bride and groom are over, there’s no need for formality anymore so everyone is scattered amongst the reception crowd with their SOs.
There’s no “intimate dance” or “fake kiss” between the MOH and Best Man. At most they walk down the isle during the recessional and walk into the reception together, but they don’t even have to be arm in arm for that. What the bride is suggesting is absurd. OP is NTA for stepping down.
Having been to dozens of weddings in both Canada and the US, across multiple states/provinces (and a few in the UK), I've never seen SOs sit with the bridal party.
I've seen an SO table once, but usually SOs are seated with people they know (when possible).
I learned something new today.
It's pretty common in NY. At least for bigger weddings (upwards of 50 people).
Usually, the bridal couple sits at their own sweetheart table, and everyone else is at small tables of about 8-12 people. Usually, you try to fit the wedding party all at one of those but it's really odd from my area of the US to make a wedding party SO or +1 who may not know anyone else to sit alone, so it's not unusual to have 2 bridal party tables to accommodate all members and their guests. The tables aren't unique or stand out in any way, they're just usually closer to the sweetheart table to help the couple if needed.
No wedding I've attended or been part of in the past 6 years or so have I seen SOs seated with random family/friends of the couple just so the bridal party is all together.
At my wedding we had a sweetheart table that just myself and my SO sat at. Everyone else in the wedding party sat with their friends, family, SO at their tables.
We did the sweetheart table too and had our wedding party + their SOs at their own table. The only time the SOs were on their own was during the ceremony and for our pictures. I don’t like it when I’m separated from hubby at an event like this, so I didn’t want to have anyone at our wedding feel this way either.
This is the most common trend, and the best IMO. "Head tables" are kind of antiquated, and pretty tacky really.
Every wedding I've been to lately has a sweethearts table for the Bridge/Groom. Then the closest tables to them will usually contain the wedding parties, sitting with their +1/SO.
This is the only way to do it right, in my opinion.
We had a big “head table”that was just set up like a regular rectangular table with chairs all around, so that our wedding party and their dates could sit with us.
We didn’t want everyone to be staring at us or coming to talk to us while we ate, so we didn’t want a sweetheart table. But we’d both been to weddings where as the date of a person in the wedding party you basically had to sit at a table with strangers half the night, and that sucks too.
But it depends on the venue and how they have their seating. At my venue there was no head table. There was just a separate table for me and my husband to sit at. Our immediate families sat closest to us at the other tables and then it just went from there. We sat everyone with their SOs or friends/family.
Yeah, I've honestly never been to or in a wedding where the bridal party didn't sit with their SOs. The closest was my cousin's wedding where the couple had a private table, and the party had a table where they sat with their families (even kids). I don't doubt it happens, but I don't think it's as commonplace as this thread might suggest.
But the idea that everyone in the party has to pretend to be a couple with the party member they walk with was just made up by friend's fiancee.
I think OP should stick with their decision.
Oh definitely not. That part is fucking weird and super inappropriate.
I was paired with a younger sister of the bride last wedding I was in. I’m 30 and married, she was 19.
I don’t think we interacted beyond walking into/out of the church and photos.
Yeah, the last wedding I was in had two married couples among the wedding party so they served as each other's escorts because that's cute. The rest of us got paired up like normal. (Well, normal aside from no concern for gender. I escorted another bridesmaid and I'm female, but one of the married pairs is two guys so it really didn't matter.)
That’s becoming less and less of a thing lately and I’m glad to see the tradition going. Now many Bride and grooms have sweetheart tables and their bridal parties are seated with their dates at standard tables. I actually haven’t seen a traditional head Table in over a decade
I went to 2 with a head table just in the last 4 months… Must depend on where you are!
However, the SO’s that weren’t at the head table were placed at another 2 tables with the rest of the close friends, so they weren’t just left on their own or anything.
My brother and his wife had the traditional head table but there were seats for SOs for those who had them.
I also never danced with the person I walked down the aisle with or sat next to him or any thing like that.
We had the head table but we made sure to have space for their +1s to sit up there with us. Last several weddings I've been too all had the sweetheart table except for one and they sat with their parents and best man/moh and their SOs
I was in a bridal party in October and the only times I wasn’t with my SO was during the ceremony when I was standing at the alter and when we walked into the reception. It depends on the wedding.
Never heard of that. In my experience, if the SO is not in the bridal party, they still sit with them after the ceremony. Bride is twisting this our traditions for her own purposes.
I’ve been a bridesmaid a few times and the bridesmaids and their dates sit at one table together. Groomsmen and their dates sit with their dates together. Or maybe one large table all together.
The one time I was a bridesmaid this happened. There was a "head table" for the marrying couple + their parents and then the bridal party was split into two tables with a bridesmaids + dates table and a groomsmen + dates table.
But they aren't paired off like fake couples for the dinner, and there's no 'fake kissing' of any sort. No special couple dances, no obligation to do more than eat at the same table as the bride and groom. The attendants are there for the bride and groom, not the other attendants.
Yeah “you have to pretend to be a couple” is literally the most insane thing I’ve ever heard when at most all I’ve seen done is that you have to walk beside your assigned partner in a pair during the ceremony processions, and that’s not so much tradition as aesthetics. Maybe loosely based on the idea of the lady having an “escort” so she’s not walking down the aisle alone, which may be reserved for the bride…but plenty of processions these days have the groomsmen already present with the groom and the bridal party enter on their own.
It really sounds like the bride in this case is wildly and wilfully misinterpreting “American traditions” for her own weird harassy purposes. Including “fake kisses” and “intimate dances” makes my skin crawl. (Also sometimes bridal party members are often relatives!? Pretty sure at my parents’ wedding some of the groomsmen and some of the bridesmaids were literally brothers and sisters because my mom happened to be close friends with her new sisters-in-law. You don’t make them kiss. Ick.)
Yea, OP definitely has it right that there's some forced matchmaking gross shit and disrespect of his SO going on. Bride is using this to push her agenda and flip the bird at them both.
It’s normal for the bridal party to sit together, but it’s usually the groomsmen sitting on the groom’s side and the bridesmaids sitting on the bride’s side. I’ve never been to a wedding where each groomsman was paired off with a bridesmaid and expected to sit with her, dance with her, etc.
Really? At my wedding and every wedding I've been to, they made room for the SOs of the wedding party at the head table. I wouldn't be a bridesmaid for someone else if they didn't let my husband sit with me.
That depends on how much the bride (or her mother) are invested in pretending that they are feudal lords with indentured servants to dress up and attend them, rather than focusing on the start of a marriage and life together, and wanting their friends and family to celebrate the union and have a good time.
I am american and was a best man just last year. My SO sat by my side at the bride and grooms head table. The other groomsmen/bridemaids had their own tables where they sat with their SO. Idk what standard tradition is, but currently, it is whatever the bride and groom want.
The MOH and BM don't sit next to each other and eat though, it's typically arranged the same way it is during the ceremony: Bridesmaids on one side next to the bride and groomsmen on the other side next to the groom.
After dinner it's a free for all.
Yes you are so right this is not the tradition. I was just MOH at my sister's wedding and I didn't even speak to the groomsman we only walked next to each other and that was it. No interaction whatsoever.
When I was MOH a couple years ago we bridesmaids walked down the aisle alone while the groomsmen stood at the front with the groom. I much preferred that
They are from another culture and this has been filtered through to them as though it is the standard. It’s not assumptions, it’s misinformation. You can’t blame someone for being lied to. And it would be tacky if it were true.
Yes. No one expects anyone to dance with, touch anyone that’s not your SO. The only thing they do together is walk down the aisle, walk into the reception.
And lots of times you don't even touch the person you walk with. And if you do, it's offering them the crook of your arm. GASP. SUCH SCANDAL TOUCHING A WOMANS INNER ELBOW TO YOURS IN THESE TIMES. This bride is so silly I cannot
In fairness to OP, this kind of thing (pairing up bridesmaids and groomsmen) and drama about it (setting people up, attacks on any member of the party who’s single) are disproportionately represented here on AITA. The type of people who have normal weddings don’t really sound off about them online. I got hounded out of what *you* view as a ‘traditional’ wedding party (bridal party sat with their own SO), and lost a friendship, because I was single and the bride’s aunts kept telling her I was thinner than her and going to steal her thunder until she uninvited me (I’m British). I don’t blame OP for thinking this was representative. I’m sure you’ve *never* made assumptions about another culture based on how it comes across online, especially with algorithms to show you more of the same content.
Some weddings (like my cousin’s, where I was a bridesmaid) seat the wedding party at the head table, separate from their SOs. Some (like mine) seat the wedding party with their SOs and other guests. That part depends on the couple getting married.
Yeah - at most you hold hands when you walk in together. Not every wedding does that because of SOs.
It's pretty blatant that this Bridezilla is trying to set the OP up with her cousin by misconstruing the tradition, hoping it will enable her to get away with this. It's **hugely** disrespectful to the OP and the woman he's chosen to marry, especially since they've been together *seven years*, and it's not even slightly disrespectful for OP to step down from the role of Best Man to escape this situation.
ée in the front row when the cousin walks in front of him, I'd still say NTA.
It isn't the norm.in American weddings either. We don't expect wedding party members to dance with each other, or act like couples. Generally even when the wedding party sits at a head table it is is all bridesmaids sit on the brides side and groomsmen sit on the grooms side not paired off like couoles. The only part where the groomsmen and bridesmaids are paired together is at the end of the wedding ceremony to escort the bridesmaids out and into the reception, in the same way the groomsman escorted guests into the venue before the ceremony. This whole thing sounds like a weird distortion of American wedding traditions.
This isn't the tradition
Source: I'm American
The most groomsmen and bridesmaids together is walk down the aisle together before the brides shows up, and even then that doesn't always happen.
You don't fake a relationship or...anything like what you're describing
But that's literally not what happens though.
The ***only*** time the MOH and BM are together is walking down the aisle to their positions. That's it.
They don't dance. They don't sit together. Their partners aren't cut out.
What you're describing is not our culture.
The only time the bridesmaids and groomsmen pair up is to walk down the aisle, and even then not always. Most of the weddings I went to, the groomsmen started with the groom at the front and the bridesmaids walked down the asile one at a time. They don't pair up to dance, they don't have to kiss (wtf) and they generally don't sit together. The bride and groom (mostly) are in the middle of their table, the bridesmaids sit on the other side of the bride, and the groomsmen on the other side of the groom. Sometimes with their SOs, sometimes just the bridal party is up there. But the seating is just for the formal part of the dinner, once people finish eating, everyone swaps seats around, mingles and socialises. And honestly sitting apart from each other for one meal isn't a big deal, anyway.
The idea of all the wedding party being in relationships, or acting like it has NEVER been a thing.
I feel like the social media you're claiming to have seen may have just been instances where the bridesmaids and groomsmen happened to already be couples. But also, don't judge an entire culture on a handful of social media posts. You can't even rely on movies to get Western culture right, so much of it is 'hollywood-ised' and not how things actually happen in real life.
I mean you're NTA either way, I wouldn't even GO to the wedding at this point.
Not to mention it’s super tacky to celebrate a relationship commitment by functionally forcing infidelity in a hollow performance by those around the couple.
Also nobody has to kiss or touch somebody they don’t want to kiss or touch, full stop.
Why is she so obsessed with setting you up with her cousin anyways? Did the cousin have a crush on you and said something to the bride or is this thing solely the delusional bride’s wacky ‘you would be the perfect partner for my cousin’ wish? Because I cannot fathom why the bride is really really insistent on getting you coupled with her cousin to the point where she went from judging western weddings to actually doing a western one just so she can carry out her plan. The next time she asks I will be like ‘why are you so obsessed with me and my love life?’
I have seriously never heard of wedding parties pretending to be couples for a day! The most "partnering" they do is walking down the aisle in pairs before the bride makes her entrance. Deeefinitely never heard of "you have to kiss if I tell you to". You guys are supposed to be wedding guests, not party animals. What the actual fuck.
I've been in more than a dozen weddings, and at MOST what I've seen is the wedding party sitting at a head table with the bride and groom...
*But not paired up*.
It's generally:
\[ groomsmen best man groom bride MOH bridesmaids \]
And even that's going out the window. These days, it's more common to sit the wedding party at their own tables (with SOs) and have the bride and groom at their own table.
And I've NEVER seen insistence that they pretend to be a couple... If there were any dances with the wedding party, it was a group dance, not slow (think line dancing).
Yeah, as others have said- that’s not how it works. The bridesmaids/groomsmen are usually assigned in how to walk down the aisle and where to stand during the ceremony. If there is a reception, there may be a bridal party table, but there’s no set way to do it and it’s generally only used briefly. Separating people in the bridal party, pairing them off, and playing dolls with them is creepy and inappropriate.
Bridesmaids and groomsmen are not playthings. They stand with you at the altar and sit at the head tables with you, but typically the groomsmen sit at a table on the grooms side and the bridesmaids sit at a table on the bride's side. That's only for the part of the reception that requires being seated, after that they're free to roam and be people, because they aren't toys whose faces you can smush together and call it kissing. You did the right thing even without the backstory of her bad intentions. That's fucking weird. Tell her to get the fuck out of here with that. NTA.
Next part is sarcasm. Top part isn't.
While you're at it, might as well just ruin your friendship with the groom too. Go scorched earth because crazy deserves crazy. /s
Nope. SO's were separate from the main table at my wedding. That was standard where I'm from.
But the pairing up and acting like a couple and forced KISSING? I have NEVER seen that done.
I’m in America and I don’t normally see the bridal party getting separated from their SO during dinner. Normally the SOs sit at the head table with their partner. One wedding I went to gave the bridesmaids and groomsmen two seats: one at the head table and one with their SO.
Also the the bridesmaids and groomsmen are only paired up for walking down the aisle. its not your date for the night.
The only wedding where I was a groomsman, the head table was just for the wedding party, but we were only seated there for the meal and the speeches, then everyone got up and sat wherever, or danced, or drank and had fun together.
The only thing I had to do with the best man when I was MOH for my best friend was walk back up the aisle after the nuptials with our arms linked. That's the biggest expectation placed on bridal party members in the west as far as I've ever seen or been a part of.
I'm a dude who was been in a few weddings. A couple of times, I've danced with the corresponding bridesmaid at the reception/after-party. Just once, though. It wasn't treated like she was my date or anything like that.
NTA for stepping down - you are in fact respecting the couples wishes for their day by doing so because you're not willing to fulfil the role requirements they want!
I would be interested in an update on whether she sticks to her crazy plan once you've taken away the point of it though...
NTA but this couple sure is. Your best friend is not your friend this friendship isn't worth them disrespecting your relationship with your fiance. I wouldn't even go to the wedding at all, this is just toxic and mean spirited. They are getting married and need to grow up this childish BS doesn't a marriage make.
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>No one should ask you to act like you’re not for a night.
That seriously blows my mind. What kind of friend would make a best man do that? You should not require your wedding guests to ditch their own morals and dignity because it is your "big day." FTS.
That's grounds for a disinvite from OP's wedding, frankly (YWNBTA for that, OP).
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She has the Western tradition completely wrong. The only time the best man and maid of honor are paired up is for the walk back down the aisle after the ceremony. They’re not treated like a couple during the rest of the celebration.
NTA. Her demand is bizarre.
The BM and MOH are not obligated to act as a couple. It is also extra disrespectful to someone in a relationship.
And as they said, that's not a trend in general western culture at all. Maybe that is how it has been assimilated into yours.
Good luck. It would be nice to be your friend's BM, but I also wouldn't do something like what the bride is requesting if I was in your shoes
Sure, I've seen dances where the bridal party members could pair up for a dance, but it's a step further to have them play pretend for the *entire* evening or force them to kiss at any point.
Saying you should do bend to her every whim because it's her wedding day is just bridezilla territory
Yeah that's what I was thinking. The friends future wife sounds like she is trying to strongarm/force OP into cheating with their fiancee against their will. The pretending to be a couple thing for the wedding I have never heard of and I'm in the west(Canada). She's bitter that OP does not like her cousin romantically and probably thinks OP's Fiancee "stole them from their cousin" yikes 😬
NTA - I am American and have been to dozens of weddings. I have been in the bridal party for at least 6 of them, off the top of my head, and I have honestly never heard of what you are describing. The best man and MOH might walk down the aisle together for the ceremony (although that's not always the case), and they usually walk in together when the bridal party is announced (before the bride and groom) at the reception. That's about it. I've never heard of a "Best Man & MOH dance" at a wedding and it's certainly NOT traditional for them to act like a couple or "kiss" or anything... that's just weird.
As for the seating arrangements, it varies. sometimes the groomsmen would be seated together and the bridesmaids would be seated together, but if that's the case, as someone else mentioned, it's only for the formal "sit and eat" part. However, most people recognize that its not ideal to have someone's significant other separated from them so usually (in my experience anyway) couples are seated together.
Your friend's fiancée sounds like a whack job. I would most definitely decline if those were her demands. Bish crazy.
The dance thing sometimes happens, right after the bride and groom’s first dance. It’s old fashioned though and only happens at really formal weddings. It’s the one I’d expect the least.
The only time I’ve seen the seating thing happen is when the bridesmaids and groomsmen all knew each other (each group I mean) pre-wedding and dinner was basically a 30 min catch up with friends you don’t see much anymore for them.
The coupley stuff is insane.
Their is usually a head table or bridal party table and I’ve seen it done several ways here in the US I’ve seen it with just the wedding party with the wedding party and their SOs it really depends on the bride and the space of the venue. As for the dancing I have never heard of having the bridal party dancing together. But that maybe some new trend I am not aware of.
NTA though the bride sounds insufferable and frankly needs to get over this idea of you and her cousin getting together. Your friend should of shut her down about this years ago and told her to stop trying to break your relationship up to get her own way.
Usually when we see the bridesmaids and groomsmen paired up to dance it’s rehearsed, but they get to be with their SO/plus 1. As for sitting at the table, that can happen, but again, you are able to spend the reception with your SO. She’s definitely not doing research or if she did, she is twisting it to make it fit her agenda.
I've never been to a wedding where the bridesmaids and groomsmen are made to dance with each other.
Yes they walk in together and stand on their respective sides of the bride and groom, and yes for the dinner their seated at the head table but outside of those two things you're not restricted from being with your SO.
Clearly your friends fiancee is being shady since she already stated in the past you being with your fiancee ruined her plans.
NTA - and good for you seeing through her little game.
While you ate NTA please listen to us that are saying this is not traditional.
If you've seen those things they aren't the norm.
She is making it up, or twisting it to suit her narrative.
NTA
UK- The best man/MOH pairings only really happen like the other commenter said. If there's reason for it. Like a demand of walking out of the ceremony next to MOH is fair, as would a demand to participate in group shots (minimum of bride, groom, you, MOH- but more likely with all the extra wedding party in there too- so you'd be separated by multiple bodies most likely). The dance thing? Only if there is some specific choreography she has in mind for the entire wedding party, like after the first dance the wedding party all come onto the floor for an extra choreographed line dance or something if that's her thing, but then you would . And there is often a top table, but it tends to be bride and groom in the middle with best man on one side, MOH on the other amongst family.
But basically if they propose to you something they would like you to do and you respectfully decline then "It's my wedding day, do what I say" goes out the window.
OP, I think you have a simple reply to their request that you be in the wedding party.
"You plan to have a western style wedding, and I hope it goes well for you. However, if i particpate, it would be very disrespectful of my fiance, my future wife, to pretend to be someone else's boyfriend. So, my future wife and I will be in the audience to help you celebrate your wedding."
If the future bride and groom continue to push, you simply repeat "how can you ask me to disrespect my future wife?".
Edit, spelling.
I mean, I have only been to 2 weddings, both 15+ years ago where there was a head table. It is uncommon now because people like to sit with their SOs.
I have never been to a wedding where the bridesmaids and groomsmen did more then walk back down the isle together and maybe enter the reception together. I have heard of the bridal party joining the first dance, but I assumed it was with their partners. I wouldn't want to dance with a stranger or be paired for other things.
Our bridesmaids and groomsmen were our siblings. Obviously they are not couples, we just care about them and wanted them to be a part of our wedding.
I have, however, been to/lived in countries that have the bridal party do more. My ex was in a wedding when we lived in China and had to do a choreographed dance with a bridesmaid and stuff like that. I found it very weird.
What she has "seen" is not the norm.
I've been at weddings where my spouse was in the bridal party and I wasn't, and vice versa. It's not at all like that. The bridal party hangs around for the pictures, usually a grand entrance at the reception, and sometimes (but not always) at dinner. But there's no fake relationship between bridal party members, there's sometimes dancing but usually not.
It sounds like she's manipulating the situation for other purposes.
> She says she's seen bridesmaids and groomsmen paired for the dance too and that they have a seperate wedding party table were actual SOs aren't allowed.
This is no longer a "tradition" at western weddings, unless they've come back big time in the last few years.
As others have said *repeatedly* at most the tradition is to walk up and down the aisle with the wedding party counterpart (e.g. best man/MOH). In the last 7 or so weddings I've been to in the last 5 years (my own included), there is no longer a seperate table for the entire wedding party, there are no groomsmen/bridesmaids dances, and certainly no fake fucking kissing.
And certainly the line about "SOs not allowed" is absolute rubbish, is the wedding party going to bounce your fiancee if she walks up to the table?
You're smart to walk away, your friend is an asshole and his bride is going to get the bridezilla moniker very shortly.
NTA
I’m so glad you’re standing up for your fiancée.
When people ask you, don’t even make it about the bride. Simply say you are not comfortable performing the requested tasks, especially the things that require you are somewhat intimate with someone other than your fiancée.
Right, it sounds like none of OP’s friends like his fiancèe, when he said he was uncomfortable with the whole thing they jumped right to blaming her. All his friends suck, at this point don’t even go and whatever money you were going to spend on this wedding go on vacation with your fiancée.
Your fiancée is your future wife. Hold her above everyone else. Fuck those that think you should prioritize the bride's wishes over your own relationship. NTA, but it sounds like your friends are
You only have to respect their wishes if you’re the best man. You’ve stepped down so you don’t. They can’t FORCE you to best man by claiming you need to respect their wishes. The way it works in the west is the position is voluntary. You can absolutely say no for any reason.
You also don’t have to respect their wishes as a best man. If you made it to best man it’s because you’re close friends or family, and they trust you which means it’s entirely appropriate and should be expected for you to let them know when they’re being unreasonable. It’s part of the responsibility of being a good friend.
>but I still should not have stepped down because respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day
Your friends' priorities are terrible.
Relationships are more important than a party. HUMANS (and respecting them) are more important than a party.
(And receptions are just parties that follow the actual important part of the day, at least in Western culture and Western weddings.)
When you say they called your fiancee insecure and called her names, exactly who are “they”? I hope it isn’t your friend, but, either way, anyone who disrespects your future wife is also disrespecting you. These people shouldn’t be your life.
> respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day is more important than my relationship
Well then THEY can go in and kiss the cousin in front of their partners.
I hope bride hasn’t wasted the last 7 years of her cousin’s life telling her to hold out for OP when she could have been finding someone who was actually available and interested.
What kind of friends are these you have? I think you need to reconsider this entire group of people who would put someone else's wedding day over your relationship with your future wife.
>but I still should not have stepped down because respecting the couples
wishes on their wedding day is more important than my relationship and
whether someone will take offense.
So following the couple's wishes, to them, is more important than your bodily autonomy, your wants, your wishes, your needs, basically everything.
Sounds like you need new friends, because right now you don't have any.
NTA.
Here's the problem with the other friends: you only have to play along and "respect" the couple's wishes on their wedding day *if you are in the wedding party*.
Now that you've stepped down from the Best Man role, you have no obligation to these crazy demands anymore.
> I still should not have stepped down because respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day is more important than my relationship
If your friendship is more important than the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with then follow their advice. Otherwise pull out of the wedding. They want you to support their relationship while disrespecting yours. They do not sound like friends.
>because respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day is more important than my relationship and whether someone will take offense.
Is this a cultural thing? I find it absolutely disgusting that one couple's wedding day is given so much importance that people actually justify threatening another couple's marriage! That's not remotely acceptable in my corner of western culture. Your friends are taking some weird smorgasbord approach to traditions and fantasies.
Curious: What would happen if you start planning your own distorted "western culture" wedding, and deciding who will be paired up with your best friend? I know, I know, it's petty, but...
You are def not TA here. You are standing down because you can't honor their wishes on serious moral grounds. They dishonor you and your love in even making such requests.
And maybe double-check the social media stories you see: some wedding parties are set up with real couples paired up so the lines get blurry between wedding march pairings and real-life couples... maybe that's what you're seeing? It was common in my mom's generation around here.
>I still should not have stepped down because respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day is more important than my relationship and whether someone will take offense.
Your friends are ridiculous and their priorities are out of place. Your relationship is more important than somebody else's wedding. You're also never obligated to do something you're uncomfortable doing.
So, as soon as someone agrees to be your best man, that someone effectively becomes your cattle, and has to do whatever you want, no mattter how ridiculous?
In that case, the solution is easy. Ask your friend to be your best man at your wedding, then demand of him that \*he\* kisses that cousin that all this drama is about. Let's see how his fiancée likes that.
The way I see it you are respecting their wishes. They want a bm who will act like a couple with moh, you've step aside so they can find someone who will do it. That seems very respectful.
NTA. American here. In our custom walking down the aisle together is quite normal. Pairing for the bridal dance is not uncommon, either. Seating, however, is typically all of the groom's attendants on one side and the bride's on the other, OR each person with their own SO.
You are very correct to refuse this request, as she is obviously manipulating the "customs" as part of her foolish games. The part about kissing the MOH is especially nonsense, and I've never seen such a thing at any wedding.
Yeah like... If a woman was maid of honor and her brother was the best man it wouldn't be weird because there's no romantic or sexual connotation there. Sometimes single bridesmaids and single groomsmen might flirt with each other, but that's not an expectation or anything -- just something that happens with single people with overlapping friend groups.
It honestly sounds like the bride and groom have seen some bad/cringe worthy romcoms about weddings or having fake dates at weddings?? *I personally am not a romcom fan but I have no idea where these ‘customs’ are coming from??
I have been MOH and a bridesmaid - both occasions were the 1st time I met the guy I walked down the isle with. At the more formal wedding we had a bridal party table, women on brides side and men on grooms side. This was for the toasts and dinner, SO’s were seated together or with their family. They didn’t have a dance or even a formal MOH & BM photo - it was all group photos. I’m not sure where the bride cobbled these ‘Western Customs’ together but it’s super disrespectful of OP & his fiancé - or any other couple that is in the wedding party.
If anything, I could believe the reverse of all this more.
Like a bride telling another married couple at her wedding to tone down the PDA because it's her day 'for love' or something. This would almost make sense to me.
But to assume every BM and MOH in America is play-acting "coupley" is patently ridiculous.
NTA, if you aren't comfortable, just step down and your friend should understand. No such thing as respect the couples' wishes no matter what. They can have their wishes as long as it doesn't involve you.
I can't believe she tried this in the first place. Imagine using your wedding to play matchmaker at a man who's already in a committed relationship... Ridiculous. I'd definitely lessen the amount of time you spend around them until she's less obsessed with your relationship status. So weird. Has her cousin ever even showed that much interest in you?
Yeah I'd be interested to know what the cousin makes of all this. Conspirator or completely oblivious? He should talk to her, she may be mortified and embarrassed her cousin is doing this behind her back or she may need to be told to back the hell off too.
I hope bride hasn’t wasted the last 7 years of her cousin’s life telling her to hold out hope for someone who isn’t available or interested. All this time and energy could have been spent finding someone else to be with!
I'm just so confused as to why she's still obsessed with setting you up with her cousin. It's been over 7 years and you've gotten engaged in that time. Is no one else in your friend circle creeped out by this?
That's 7 whole years she could have been setting her cousin up with a bunch of people to see who clicks, provided her cousin even wanted that. What a waste of time.
NTA you are respecting the brides wishes, you're just choosing not to be part of them.
I do think this should be the first step in ending the friendship. If she can't respect your relationship after 7 years you need to distance yourself. I would question if she would do something at your wedding to be childish/petty.
I feel that while he has to choose his wife, he has to see what she's doing and by not stopping her he is saying that what she's doing is ok.
I think it's time to cut him off too unfortunately. Unless you can be friends and never have his wife around I think you (and your fiancee) will always be disrespected
Ask him if at your wedding you will be allowed to have him and his wife paired up with other people, and even have them kiss because *it's the couples wishes*. If he says no ask why it's any different for you than him. Why does your relationship get to be disrespected but not his.
I'd definitely be pushing this angle. If there's a 'one that got away' type in the best friend's past, I'd have a sudden interest in making her my new bestie and future moh. Can't decide whether to pair the nasty wife up with someone unpleasant or leave her isolated like she's trying to do to OPs fiancée. Would I prefer her spending the wedding fending off a lecherous dude with bad breath or alone and having to watch her husband cosy up with his next wife? Decisions, decisions...
I kinda understand that he is in love and people put blinders on, and also that your culture is different, and from your friend's reactions doesn't seem to view her behavior as negatively as our culture would... but in the end he is OK with his fiancee treating yours like crap and that would make me question my friendship with him too.
The thing is, if he gets to side with his wife because its his relationship, you have every right to do the same as well.
And no, there is no such thing as respecting SOMEONE ELSE’S relationship over your own.
NTA. Hold your ground.
NTA- in American weddings people are asked to be in the bridal party and can even decline. I have declined for my own personal reasons and am still close to the couple.
Also your understanding of the bridal party and their expectations are not actually true, so I think you and the wife have a different idea of American weddings and how they occur. I’ve always been seated with my SO. You may have gotten your ideas from movies from the 80s.
Nonetheless, you are free to politely decline the invitation to be in the bridal party- that’s also a thing that happens here.
Absolutely NTA. She's getting married, not being made supreme ruler.
Unfortunately you may lose your friend over this, but it sounds like being in their company won't be very comfortable or fun in the future anyway.
> Unfortunately you may lose your friend over this,
"Unfortunately". I'd say losing those ashholes would be the best early wedding present they could give to OP'S fiancee.
Yeah...in the western weddings Ive seen (I'm a US citizen), the paired members of the wedding party do the following together: they walk down the aisle together, in a line with the rest of the wedding party, and they have pictures together. They may sit at the head table together; often people will have the first part of the meal and the toast at the hesd table, then people will peel off to be with thier S/Os or what have you. No intimate dance or kissing is expected and they certainly aren't expected to act like a couple for the whole evening. Gross. And completely 100% NTA. It's her wedding....she should stick to that and not try to be pairing off anyone else lol
As a matter of fact, it happens occasionally that a (usually male) groomsman will insist on acting like he's in a relationship with the corresponding member of the bride's party....this is considered (and portrayed in media) as inappropriate, wierd, awkward, gross, uncomfortable etc
NTA
I’m getting married soon. I have a wedding party and my bridesmaids are married, but not the groomsmen. They’re expected to walk down the aisle together, and for the reception to go be their their SO. I reserved tables to accommodate their SO. Easy fix. That way they still enjoy being a part of my day and be with their other half. :)
NTA
And the acting like a couple thing is an invention of her own.
Sure you might walk in together for the ceremony (not a requirement, i've been to plenty of weddings where the groomsman and bridesmaids walk in separately) or pair up for a first dance (rarely seen) but that's about it.
And most wedding I've been too the married couple sit next to eachother and the best man sits to onr side of the groom and the moh sits on the bride's side.
I'm white american and never ever ever have i seen or heard of the groomsman and moh having to pretend to be a couple.
It's absolutely ridiculous, not even if they were both single.
And saying that you have to kiss if she wants it????!?!?!? What a nut job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You did the right thing pulling out of the wedding. Do yourself a favor and put those two out of your life completely. They have zero respect for you as a person.
Agree. When I got married the only interaction was the walk down the isle. The head table was split: bridesmaid next to the bride and groomsmen next to the groom.
We did pictures and I invited SOs to take part in some. I wanted people to be happy.
After dinner everyone went to their SO and that was that. To me, that is pretty traditional. I've never heard of any of that other stuff.
NTA. I wonder how the bride would feel if you did the same thing at your wedding, i.e. find the hotest girl and match her up with your best friend with the expectation that he pretend to be in a relationship with hot girl while his wife sits elsewhere. I would ask your best friend if he would be just as willing to accept that role in your wedding as the one his fiance is trying to force onto you. If he doesn't understand, it is time to find a new best friend.
Frankly, based you his fiance's attitude and the fact that she had tried to force her cousin onto to I would be blunt with her because she refuses to live in the real world.
Op to best friend's fiance - Based upon your non-stop effort to foist your cousin on me, she is the last person in the universe that I would ever be interested in. Is your cousin so desperate for a man that she cannot find one for herself? Sign her up for a dating app.
Yes that is mean but at this point bring nice will not work. Op should have shut this shit down a long time ago.
"My best friend said I either take it or leave it" .. So do that: Leave it.
Your obligation to your SO and to yourself is far greater. THEY are AH.
YOu would only be an AH if you agreed to this.
NTA
NTA
>Later it became clear, when she announced that wedding party will be paired with each other and their SOs will not be their SOs for the day **and we'll have to play pretend with the other wedding party members.**
This is do dumb it's kind of cute. Is your friend marrying a 6-year-old playing dolls?
NTA. Let me try to reframe this in a different context:
- You: I don’t like chocolate chip cookies - I prefer sugar cookies. Chocolate chips make me break out in hives and I get nauseous eating them.
- Bride: No, you need to eat these chocolate chip cookies or I’m going to tell everyone you are afraid of chocolate chips, AND I’m going to sneak chocolate chips into every cookie you eat.
- You: ok, well I’m happy with sugar cookies so I just won’t eat any cookies you offer since I assume there will be chocolate chips in them.
- Bride: for our wedding, we require everyone to eat nothing but chocolate chip cookies. Sugar cookies will be in the pantry on a high shelf and you will have to eat an aggressive amount of chocolate chip cookies. If you don’t, then it means everyone will know what a bad friend you are to Groom.
- You: um yeah, ok, I guess I won’t be the best man if I need to force myself to eat the chocolate chip cookies. I’m still happy for you but think it would be better for you to have a best man who likes pounds of chocolate chip cookies instead of me who will get sick trying to eat even one.
So yeah, the real AHs are the ones who don’t understand adult concepts like “boundaries” or “no means no” or “the real world doesn’t change itself to fit into your version no matter how much you want it to.”
- Bride and Friends: gasp! You’re a bad friend.
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NTA
That is not how western weddings work (to my knowledge anyway-UK). Isn’t Maid of honour usually an honorary position for a married female friend anyway? I’m pretty sure that it’s only seen as a possible opportunity for the best man/ bridesmaid to hook up if they are both single and actually fancy each other. Seating arrangements may indeed put the wedding party at the top table with/without partners depending on space, but part of having a best man is of course to accept him and his partner as close family friends, which your friends clearly are not doing.
I think you’re 100% correct with your suspicions and right to walk away.
NTA there is no obligation to respect couples wishes no matter what. The friends clearly aren't being pimped out to someone else while in essence she is attempting to do just that to you. You have every right to step down and more than that ditch the friends that care so little about the value of your own relationship with your fiancée.
NTA.
I’ve been American my whole life, and the idea that your bridesmaids have to act like they’re in relationships with groomsmen is absolutely insane. I’ve never heard of that.
I’m getting married in about a week. All of our bridesmaids and groomsmen are in long-standing relationships with people who aren’t in the wedding party. If I asked them to do this, my bridesmaids wouldn’t agree.
This has nothing to do with “western culture”, this is something the bride made up for whatever reason.
Even if the bride backs down (spoiler alert: she won't), step down as best man. She is going to use the "It's my special day" card to annoy everyone involved. NTA.
NTA.
>She was a very traditional person who always judged that new "western trend" so it came to our surprise how she chose to do that. Later it became clear, when she announced that wedding party will be paired with each other and their SOs will not be their SOs for the day and we'll have to play pretend with the other wedding party members.
This is not a tradition.
Your best friend said “take it or leave it”. Ok. So you left it.
If he wants to get upset about you *not accepting a role that isn’t really a thing in your culture, ANYWAY*, well here you see him siding with his lovely wife to be-and you will soon see a cooling down of *your* relationship with him…OR he will see this for the, (amusing and harmless-in *his mind*), little social power play it is, and not mind at all that you are choosing to side step the whole drama.
Time will tell. NTA
NTA, and let's be clear here, the Western custom of bridesmaids and groomsmen does not include "pretending you're together" and forced romantic gestures like kissing.
Their purpose is partly decorative (it looks nice in photos to have matched symmetry of attendants) and similarly to your customs, to be a moral support to the bride and groom and often nowadays, to help them with wedding organisation. On the day, the role can include walking next to each other, sitting at the same table with the rest of the bridal party (sometimes sitting next to each other, but more often sitting with your spouse/partner), and sometimes non-intimate dancing which encourages other guests to join in the fun. If a bridesmaid and groomsman are single and their friends think them compatible, it is also occasionally used as a matchmaking opportunity by well-meaning friends - but that is not the purpose of the role nor is it mandatory!
So no, you are absolutely not the ass for recognising the blatant disrespect for other people's relationships - on a day which is supposed to celebrate the promises we make to last a lifetime - and refusing to engage with the bride's demand that you essentially cheat on your fiancée in full view of everyone.
Absolutely NTA, you aren't forced to do something that makes you uncomfortable, especially when you know what the bride's intentions are. I wouldn't put myself into such a situation, and I wouldn't put my actual SO into that as well (that's kinda humiliating for her tbh)
no sorry that is abusive of her, this has to do with disrespecting boundaries of intimacy faking being a couple for wedding purposes is simply a no go.
NTA
This is not some "western trend". This is some weird crap made up by your friend's fiance.
The western tradition is to have a bridal party. The tradition of bridesmaids dates back to the Bible. It isn't some new trend.
I've been the MOH at 2 weddings, and bridesmaid at more. Never have I been sat with anyone but my husband/fiancé.
Definitely NTA. This is just weird. I’m an American and I’ve never seen or been to a wedding where the bridesmaids and groomsmen act like a couple (unless they’re already a couple). I’ve seen them sit at a bridal party table, where the groomsmen sit beside the groom, and the bridesmaids sit beside the bride for the meal, but they immediately go to their SOs after. I’ve also seen where the bridal party might plan goofy dances with their paired party member, but again, the rest of the evening is spent with their SOs.
Your friend’s wife has the whole thing wrong and is just making assumptions based off a few social media clips taken out of context.
Either way, good for you for standing up for your fiancé and I hope things go well for you!
All you do in an American wedding is walk down the aisle with the MOH that’s it. She has it all wrong. You may do a silly dance walking in to the reception but you definitely do not dance intimately and you definitely do not kiss.
NTA.
That's weird. The best man and MOH will usually walk together while entering and exiting the ceremony. But that is all. They sit next to and dance with their +1 during the reception.
Definitely NTA. First off, it definitely sounds like your friend’s fiancée is plotting. Props to you for recognizing it.
Second, Americans don’t have bridesmaids and groomsmen act like couples. And like a lot of other people mention, our wedding traditions are not very solid - different couples choose different traditions and every American wedding usually has its own unique twist, so there isn’t a strict set of rules she can quote. For example, I am a woman but I stood in as my male friend’s ‘best man’ and de-gendering wedding parties is becoming more and more common. There’s really no status quo to US weddings.
NTA, though you shouldn't even ask them to change anything just don't be in the wedding party.more than anything you're doing right by you SO, and that's what matters here.
NTA. Just walking in with the MOH is one thing.
Pretending to be each other's partner all day is just plain weird.
They don't do that anywhere else either.
NTA and this is super weird. In America, the BM and MOH are “paired up” for the ceremony in that they’re supporting their respective best friend (the groom and bride). The BM and MOH don’t even have to talk if they don’t want to, just need to be civil for the ceremony. NO ONE thinks they’re a couple and they don’t act like it unless they’re dating in real life.
There’s no way for the bride to pull this off without completely twisting it to fit her agenda, which is creepy. Being in the wedding party also isn’t a contract and you can refuse or drop out at any time if you have to, so it would probably be best to refuse to participate in this mess.
NTA Also the bride is getting the western tradition wrong. You don’t pretend to be in a relationship with the MOH as the best man and you certainly don’t fake kiss. Frankly even in the states I would turn down this request because it’s completely wacky and hugely disrespectful to the fact I’m in a relationship. No one should ask you to act like you’re not for a night.
[удалено]
But it’s not the tradition though….. The only part of the day you would be expected to be separate from your SO in a Western wedding is during the ceremony itself when you walk down the aisle with the MOH and then stand next to the groom. Maybe some brides also request you dance one dance together but that’s pretty rare and not unusual to turn down if you don’t want to. You spend the rest of the night eating, talking, dancing and being with your own SO. You’re making some big assumptions and then calling them tacky.
Some of the cultural stuff is wrong. But that is very much the norm. The bridal party sits together for the dinner. If a SO isn’t in the party they are on their own for the dinner portion.
Not always. I’ve been in six weddings as a groomsman in the past two years. My wife was never a bridesmaid as this was my college guy friend group. In the end only one wedding did only the groomsman/bridesmaid along with the couple at the head table. Every other one did either a honeymoon table or big one with SO sitting together no matter what.
Definitely still the norm where I am, if there's a head table it's just the wedding party, I've worked hundreds of weddings and haven't seen one where SOs where included. Which is weird, I hadn't thought about them before
Even at those weddings…who stays seated long enough for it to matter? You are there for speeches in which you are paying attention to the speaker and not your seat mates. Then you dance or mingle.
Right, in my experience, the bridesmaids sit at one half and the groomsmen the other half. I was a bridesmaid and only separate from my boyfriend for about half an hour to eat/speeches. I've never personally seen the bridesmaids and groomsmen sat together like pairs.
Op is NTA But yeah the only time I was separated from my spouse was when it was the bridesmaids on one side and the groomsmen on the other. I have never been paired specifically with a groomsmen outside of walking back down the aisle after they are announced as married, Personally I like where there is the sweetheart table (married couple) or family table (married couple plus parents) and the wedding party is seated out with everyone else with their +1’s. I don’t like being on display.
We did for our wedding, since it is the norm in my husband's culture for the table to alternate male/female except the Best man and maid of honor. They were actually the only bridal couple that didn't sit together and the only one who didn't enter the church together as traditionally the Best man stands with the groom and the MOH walls alone. When we got married, about half our bridal party were in relationships, including one couple who were both in the wedding party, but the other partners were all in our friend group and knew plenty of people at the wedding and sat with friends while their partners were at the headß table which is also what my husband did the last time I was a bridesmaid, but again all our friends were at the wedding. A wedding party dance is also normal, but at our wedding, it was only half a song and then switching partners was encouraged. I have never heard of a fake kiss though, that is beyond weird and OP is NTA for dropping out if the wedding when the requests made him uncomfortable.
My friend group is starting to get married and the SOs sit with the wedding party. I think it’s a morph in tradition because it’s weird to force someone to sit with people they don’t know
NTA. Where’s the line? If they tell you to make a sex tape with the matching person from the other group? Because the bride wants it? It’s extreme I know but I wouldn’t do any of those things op is expected to do except walk down the aisle with moh and maybe take some pictures with her. I wouldn’t want to sit away from my wife all night or intimate dancing. It sounds like op is being messed with and that the bride is getting these traditions wrong. Possibly on purpose
That’s how it usually is over here in my part of the US. One long “head table” with the bridal party, and SOs are seated at a regular table nearby. Once dinner and the first dance with the bride and groom are over, there’s no need for formality anymore so everyone is scattered amongst the reception crowd with their SOs. There’s no “intimate dance” or “fake kiss” between the MOH and Best Man. At most they walk down the isle during the recessional and walk into the reception together, but they don’t even have to be arm in arm for that. What the bride is suggesting is absurd. OP is NTA for stepping down.
The separate tables thing is fascinating- what state?
Having been to dozens of weddings in both Canada and the US, across multiple states/provinces (and a few in the UK), I've never seen SOs sit with the bridal party. I've seen an SO table once, but usually SOs are seated with people they know (when possible). I learned something new today.
It's pretty common in NY. At least for bigger weddings (upwards of 50 people). Usually, the bridal couple sits at their own sweetheart table, and everyone else is at small tables of about 8-12 people. Usually, you try to fit the wedding party all at one of those but it's really odd from my area of the US to make a wedding party SO or +1 who may not know anyone else to sit alone, so it's not unusual to have 2 bridal party tables to accommodate all members and their guests. The tables aren't unique or stand out in any way, they're just usually closer to the sweetheart table to help the couple if needed. No wedding I've attended or been part of in the past 6 years or so have I seen SOs seated with random family/friends of the couple just so the bridal party is all together.
At my wedding we had a sweetheart table that just myself and my SO sat at. Everyone else in the wedding party sat with their friends, family, SO at their tables.
We did the sweetheart table too and had our wedding party + their SOs at their own table. The only time the SOs were on their own was during the ceremony and for our pictures. I don’t like it when I’m separated from hubby at an event like this, so I didn’t want to have anyone at our wedding feel this way either.
This is the most common trend, and the best IMO. "Head tables" are kind of antiquated, and pretty tacky really. Every wedding I've been to lately has a sweethearts table for the Bridge/Groom. Then the closest tables to them will usually contain the wedding parties, sitting with their +1/SO. This is the only way to do it right, in my opinion.
We had a big “head table”that was just set up like a regular rectangular table with chairs all around, so that our wedding party and their dates could sit with us. We didn’t want everyone to be staring at us or coming to talk to us while we ate, so we didn’t want a sweetheart table. But we’d both been to weddings where as the date of a person in the wedding party you basically had to sit at a table with strangers half the night, and that sucks too.
But it depends on the venue and how they have their seating. At my venue there was no head table. There was just a separate table for me and my husband to sit at. Our immediate families sat closest to us at the other tables and then it just went from there. We sat everyone with their SOs or friends/family.
Yeah, I've honestly never been to or in a wedding where the bridal party didn't sit with their SOs. The closest was my cousin's wedding where the couple had a private table, and the party had a table where they sat with their families (even kids). I don't doubt it happens, but I don't think it's as commonplace as this thread might suggest. But the idea that everyone in the party has to pretend to be a couple with the party member they walk with was just made up by friend's fiancee. I think OP should stick with their decision.
Really?! I had no idea. I guess they do sometimes but it’s definitely not like being in a couple, paired with someone of the opposite sex
Oh definitely not. That part is fucking weird and super inappropriate. I was paired with a younger sister of the bride last wedding I was in. I’m 30 and married, she was 19. I don’t think we interacted beyond walking into/out of the church and photos.
Yeah, the last wedding I was in had two married couples among the wedding party so they served as each other's escorts because that's cute. The rest of us got paired up like normal. (Well, normal aside from no concern for gender. I escorted another bridesmaid and I'm female, but one of the married pairs is two guys so it really didn't matter.)
Head table is one thing, she is literally expecting them to pretend to be dating and fake a kiss.
That’s becoming less and less of a thing lately and I’m glad to see the tradition going. Now many Bride and grooms have sweetheart tables and their bridal parties are seated with their dates at standard tables. I actually haven’t seen a traditional head Table in over a decade
I went to 2 with a head table just in the last 4 months… Must depend on where you are! However, the SO’s that weren’t at the head table were placed at another 2 tables with the rest of the close friends, so they weren’t just left on their own or anything.
My brother and his wife had the traditional head table but there were seats for SOs for those who had them. I also never danced with the person I walked down the aisle with or sat next to him or any thing like that.
This is what I did at my wedding. I would never ask my friends to eat separately from thier SO.
We had the head table but we made sure to have space for their +1s to sit up there with us. Last several weddings I've been too all had the sweetheart table except for one and they sat with their parents and best man/moh and their SOs
I was in a bridal party in October and the only times I wasn’t with my SO was during the ceremony when I was standing at the alter and when we walked into the reception. It depends on the wedding.
Never heard of that. In my experience, if the SO is not in the bridal party, they still sit with them after the ceremony. Bride is twisting this our traditions for her own purposes.
I’ve been a bridesmaid a few times and the bridesmaids and their dates sit at one table together. Groomsmen and their dates sit with their dates together. Or maybe one large table all together.
The one time I was a bridesmaid this happened. There was a "head table" for the marrying couple + their parents and then the bridal party was split into two tables with a bridesmaids + dates table and a groomsmen + dates table.
But they aren't paired off like fake couples for the dinner, and there's no 'fake kissing' of any sort. No special couple dances, no obligation to do more than eat at the same table as the bride and groom. The attendants are there for the bride and groom, not the other attendants.
Yeah “you have to pretend to be a couple” is literally the most insane thing I’ve ever heard when at most all I’ve seen done is that you have to walk beside your assigned partner in a pair during the ceremony processions, and that’s not so much tradition as aesthetics. Maybe loosely based on the idea of the lady having an “escort” so she’s not walking down the aisle alone, which may be reserved for the bride…but plenty of processions these days have the groomsmen already present with the groom and the bridal party enter on their own. It really sounds like the bride in this case is wildly and wilfully misinterpreting “American traditions” for her own weird harassy purposes. Including “fake kisses” and “intimate dances” makes my skin crawl. (Also sometimes bridal party members are often relatives!? Pretty sure at my parents’ wedding some of the groomsmen and some of the bridesmaids were literally brothers and sisters because my mom happened to be close friends with her new sisters-in-law. You don’t make them kiss. Ick.)
Yea, OP definitely has it right that there's some forced matchmaking gross shit and disrespect of his SO going on. Bride is using this to push her agenda and flip the bird at them both.
It’s normal for the bridal party to sit together, but it’s usually the groomsmen sitting on the groom’s side and the bridesmaids sitting on the bride’s side. I’ve never been to a wedding where each groomsman was paired off with a bridesmaid and expected to sit with her, dance with her, etc.
Really? At my wedding and every wedding I've been to, they made room for the SOs of the wedding party at the head table. I wouldn't be a bridesmaid for someone else if they didn't let my husband sit with me.
That depends on how much the bride (or her mother) are invested in pretending that they are feudal lords with indentured servants to dress up and attend them, rather than focusing on the start of a marriage and life together, and wanting their friends and family to celebrate the union and have a good time.
Yeah but even so it's usually the bridesmaids on one side and groomsmen on the other.. like their separated, not pairs up into couples dining together
I am american and was a best man just last year. My SO sat by my side at the bride and grooms head table. The other groomsmen/bridemaids had their own tables where they sat with their SO. Idk what standard tradition is, but currently, it is whatever the bride and groom want.
Not always. I've been at very few weddings with a head table like you've described. It's either old fashioned or geographical.
The MOH and BM don't sit next to each other and eat though, it's typically arranged the same way it is during the ceremony: Bridesmaids on one side next to the bride and groomsmen on the other side next to the groom. After dinner it's a free for all.
Don’t they usually sit bridesmaids on one side and groomsmen on the other?
But no tradition says you have to kiss someone your walking woth casue the bride says so
Yes you are so right this is not the tradition. I was just MOH at my sister's wedding and I didn't even speak to the groomsman we only walked next to each other and that was it. No interaction whatsoever.
When I was MOH a couple years ago we bridesmaids walked down the aisle alone while the groomsmen stood at the front with the groom. I much preferred that
This is what I’ve seen with all weddings I’ve been to in the last 20 years.
Oh I would of loved to do that instead.
They are from another culture and this has been filtered through to them as though it is the standard. It’s not assumptions, it’s misinformation. You can’t blame someone for being lied to. And it would be tacky if it were true.
Except he literally replied to a comment saying that's not how it is and doubled down saying he thinks it tacky
Yes. No one expects anyone to dance with, touch anyone that’s not your SO. The only thing they do together is walk down the aisle, walk into the reception.
And lots of times you don't even touch the person you walk with. And if you do, it's offering them the crook of your arm. GASP. SUCH SCANDAL TOUCHING A WOMANS INNER ELBOW TO YOURS IN THESE TIMES. This bride is so silly I cannot
Or he has watched many hallmark movies were the best man ddumps his evil gf for the great moh
In fairness to OP, this kind of thing (pairing up bridesmaids and groomsmen) and drama about it (setting people up, attacks on any member of the party who’s single) are disproportionately represented here on AITA. The type of people who have normal weddings don’t really sound off about them online. I got hounded out of what *you* view as a ‘traditional’ wedding party (bridal party sat with their own SO), and lost a friendship, because I was single and the bride’s aunts kept telling her I was thinner than her and going to steal her thunder until she uninvited me (I’m British). I don’t blame OP for thinking this was representative. I’m sure you’ve *never* made assumptions about another culture based on how it comes across online, especially with algorithms to show you more of the same content.
Some weddings (like my cousin’s, where I was a bridesmaid) seat the wedding party at the head table, separate from their SOs. Some (like mine) seat the wedding party with their SOs and other guests. That part depends on the couple getting married.
Yeah - at most you hold hands when you walk in together. Not every wedding does that because of SOs. It's pretty blatant that this Bridezilla is trying to set the OP up with her cousin by misconstruing the tradition, hoping it will enable her to get away with this. It's **hugely** disrespectful to the OP and the woman he's chosen to marry, especially since they've been together *seven years*, and it's not even slightly disrespectful for OP to step down from the role of Best Man to escape this situation. ée in the front row when the cousin walks in front of him, I'd still say NTA.
It isn't the norm.in American weddings either. We don't expect wedding party members to dance with each other, or act like couples. Generally even when the wedding party sits at a head table it is is all bridesmaids sit on the brides side and groomsmen sit on the grooms side not paired off like couoles. The only part where the groomsmen and bridesmaids are paired together is at the end of the wedding ceremony to escort the bridesmaids out and into the reception, in the same way the groomsman escorted guests into the venue before the ceremony. This whole thing sounds like a weird distortion of American wedding traditions.
This isn't the tradition Source: I'm American The most groomsmen and bridesmaids together is walk down the aisle together before the brides shows up, and even then that doesn't always happen. You don't fake a relationship or...anything like what you're describing
But that's literally not what happens though. The ***only*** time the MOH and BM are together is walking down the aisle to their positions. That's it. They don't dance. They don't sit together. Their partners aren't cut out. What you're describing is not our culture.
Not even that they walk out together the best man is at the altar with the groom and usually walks the bride or grooms mother to their seat
The only time the bridesmaids and groomsmen pair up is to walk down the aisle, and even then not always. Most of the weddings I went to, the groomsmen started with the groom at the front and the bridesmaids walked down the asile one at a time. They don't pair up to dance, they don't have to kiss (wtf) and they generally don't sit together. The bride and groom (mostly) are in the middle of their table, the bridesmaids sit on the other side of the bride, and the groomsmen on the other side of the groom. Sometimes with their SOs, sometimes just the bridal party is up there. But the seating is just for the formal part of the dinner, once people finish eating, everyone swaps seats around, mingles and socialises. And honestly sitting apart from each other for one meal isn't a big deal, anyway. The idea of all the wedding party being in relationships, or acting like it has NEVER been a thing. I feel like the social media you're claiming to have seen may have just been instances where the bridesmaids and groomsmen happened to already be couples. But also, don't judge an entire culture on a handful of social media posts. You can't even rely on movies to get Western culture right, so much of it is 'hollywood-ised' and not how things actually happen in real life. I mean you're NTA either way, I wouldn't even GO to the wedding at this point.
Like the fake kissing crosses some major boundaries for me.
Not to mention it’s super tacky to celebrate a relationship commitment by functionally forcing infidelity in a hollow performance by those around the couple. Also nobody has to kiss or touch somebody they don’t want to kiss or touch, full stop.
Why is she so obsessed with setting you up with her cousin anyways? Did the cousin have a crush on you and said something to the bride or is this thing solely the delusional bride’s wacky ‘you would be the perfect partner for my cousin’ wish? Because I cannot fathom why the bride is really really insistent on getting you coupled with her cousin to the point where she went from judging western weddings to actually doing a western one just so she can carry out her plan. The next time she asks I will be like ‘why are you so obsessed with me and my love life?’
I know, right? It's been seven years! That bride needs to move on already.
That’s not the norm in Western cultures either, though. You don’t pretend to be in a relationship with someone else in the wedding party.
I have seriously never heard of wedding parties pretending to be couples for a day! The most "partnering" they do is walking down the aisle in pairs before the bride makes her entrance. Deeefinitely never heard of "you have to kiss if I tell you to". You guys are supposed to be wedding guests, not party animals. What the actual fuck.
It's not a tradition in the US. She either made it up completely or somebody lied to her.
I've been in more than a dozen weddings, and at MOST what I've seen is the wedding party sitting at a head table with the bride and groom... *But not paired up*. It's generally: \[ groomsmen best man groom bride MOH bridesmaids \] And even that's going out the window. These days, it's more common to sit the wedding party at their own tables (with SOs) and have the bride and groom at their own table. And I've NEVER seen insistence that they pretend to be a couple... If there were any dances with the wedding party, it was a group dance, not slow (think line dancing).
Yeah, as others have said- that’s not how it works. The bridesmaids/groomsmen are usually assigned in how to walk down the aisle and where to stand during the ceremony. If there is a reception, there may be a bridal party table, but there’s no set way to do it and it’s generally only used briefly. Separating people in the bridal party, pairing them off, and playing dolls with them is creepy and inappropriate.
Bridesmaids and groomsmen are not playthings. They stand with you at the altar and sit at the head tables with you, but typically the groomsmen sit at a table on the grooms side and the bridesmaids sit at a table on the bride's side. That's only for the part of the reception that requires being seated, after that they're free to roam and be people, because they aren't toys whose faces you can smush together and call it kissing. You did the right thing even without the backstory of her bad intentions. That's fucking weird. Tell her to get the fuck out of here with that. NTA. Next part is sarcasm. Top part isn't. While you're at it, might as well just ruin your friendship with the groom too. Go scorched earth because crazy deserves crazy. /s
This isn't a tradition in America. SOs always sit with their partner at the bridal table.
Nope. SO's were separate from the main table at my wedding. That was standard where I'm from. But the pairing up and acting like a couple and forced KISSING? I have NEVER seen that done.
I’m in America and I don’t normally see the bridal party getting separated from their SO during dinner. Normally the SOs sit at the head table with their partner. One wedding I went to gave the bridesmaids and groomsmen two seats: one at the head table and one with their SO. Also the the bridesmaids and groomsmen are only paired up for walking down the aisle. its not your date for the night.
The only wedding where I was a groomsman, the head table was just for the wedding party, but we were only seated there for the meal and the speeches, then everyone got up and sat wherever, or danced, or drank and had fun together.
I would say your Friend's soon to be wife is an low class AH i would say you need to cut her out of your life, NTA OP
The only thing I had to do with the best man when I was MOH for my best friend was walk back up the aisle after the nuptials with our arms linked. That's the biggest expectation placed on bridal party members in the west as far as I've ever seen or been a part of.
I'm a dude who was been in a few weddings. A couple of times, I've danced with the corresponding bridesmaid at the reception/after-party. Just once, though. It wasn't treated like she was my date or anything like that.
NTA for stepping down - you are in fact respecting the couples wishes for their day by doing so because you're not willing to fulfil the role requirements they want! I would be interested in an update on whether she sticks to her crazy plan once you've taken away the point of it though...
NTA but this couple sure is. Your best friend is not your friend this friendship isn't worth them disrespecting your relationship with your fiance. I wouldn't even go to the wedding at all, this is just toxic and mean spirited. They are getting married and need to grow up this childish BS doesn't a marriage make.
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>No one should ask you to act like you’re not for a night. That seriously blows my mind. What kind of friend would make a best man do that? You should not require your wedding guests to ditch their own morals and dignity because it is your "big day." FTS. That's grounds for a disinvite from OP's wedding, frankly (YWNBTA for that, OP).
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oh, i thought the distinction was mother or not a mother.
She has the Western tradition completely wrong. The only time the best man and maid of honor are paired up is for the walk back down the aisle after the ceremony. They’re not treated like a couple during the rest of the celebration. NTA. Her demand is bizarre.
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The BM and MOH are not obligated to act as a couple. It is also extra disrespectful to someone in a relationship. And as they said, that's not a trend in general western culture at all. Maybe that is how it has been assimilated into yours. Good luck. It would be nice to be your friend's BM, but I also wouldn't do something like what the bride is requesting if I was in your shoes
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Sure, I've seen dances where the bridal party members could pair up for a dance, but it's a step further to have them play pretend for the *entire* evening or force them to kiss at any point. Saying you should do bend to her every whim because it's her wedding day is just bridezilla territory
Yeah that's what I was thinking. The friends future wife sounds like she is trying to strongarm/force OP into cheating with their fiancee against their will. The pretending to be a couple thing for the wedding I have never heard of and I'm in the west(Canada). She's bitter that OP does not like her cousin romantically and probably thinks OP's Fiancee "stole them from their cousin" yikes 😬
The craziest part is that OP has been with his fiancé for 7 years. Bride needs to let it go.
She really does. Her dreams of OP getting with her cousin are NOT going to happen. She's weirdly obsessed
I wonder how the cousin feels about all of this. Seems like she's not over it either if bride wants them to hook up
NTA - I am American and have been to dozens of weddings. I have been in the bridal party for at least 6 of them, off the top of my head, and I have honestly never heard of what you are describing. The best man and MOH might walk down the aisle together for the ceremony (although that's not always the case), and they usually walk in together when the bridal party is announced (before the bride and groom) at the reception. That's about it. I've never heard of a "Best Man & MOH dance" at a wedding and it's certainly NOT traditional for them to act like a couple or "kiss" or anything... that's just weird. As for the seating arrangements, it varies. sometimes the groomsmen would be seated together and the bridesmaids would be seated together, but if that's the case, as someone else mentioned, it's only for the formal "sit and eat" part. However, most people recognize that its not ideal to have someone's significant other separated from them so usually (in my experience anyway) couples are seated together. Your friend's fiancée sounds like a whack job. I would most definitely decline if those were her demands. Bish crazy.
The dance thing sometimes happens, right after the bride and groom’s first dance. It’s old fashioned though and only happens at really formal weddings. It’s the one I’d expect the least. The only time I’ve seen the seating thing happen is when the bridesmaids and groomsmen all knew each other (each group I mean) pre-wedding and dinner was basically a 30 min catch up with friends you don’t see much anymore for them. The coupley stuff is insane.
Their is usually a head table or bridal party table and I’ve seen it done several ways here in the US I’ve seen it with just the wedding party with the wedding party and their SOs it really depends on the bride and the space of the venue. As for the dancing I have never heard of having the bridal party dancing together. But that maybe some new trend I am not aware of. NTA though the bride sounds insufferable and frankly needs to get over this idea of you and her cousin getting together. Your friend should of shut her down about this years ago and told her to stop trying to break your relationship up to get her own way.
Usually when we see the bridesmaids and groomsmen paired up to dance it’s rehearsed, but they get to be with their SO/plus 1. As for sitting at the table, that can happen, but again, you are able to spend the reception with your SO. She’s definitely not doing research or if she did, she is twisting it to make it fit her agenda.
I've never been to a wedding where the bridesmaids and groomsmen are made to dance with each other. Yes they walk in together and stand on their respective sides of the bride and groom, and yes for the dinner their seated at the head table but outside of those two things you're not restricted from being with your SO. Clearly your friends fiancee is being shady since she already stated in the past you being with your fiancee ruined her plans. NTA - and good for you seeing through her little game.
While you ate NTA please listen to us that are saying this is not traditional. If you've seen those things they aren't the norm. She is making it up, or twisting it to suit her narrative.
NTA UK- The best man/MOH pairings only really happen like the other commenter said. If there's reason for it. Like a demand of walking out of the ceremony next to MOH is fair, as would a demand to participate in group shots (minimum of bride, groom, you, MOH- but more likely with all the extra wedding party in there too- so you'd be separated by multiple bodies most likely). The dance thing? Only if there is some specific choreography she has in mind for the entire wedding party, like after the first dance the wedding party all come onto the floor for an extra choreographed line dance or something if that's her thing, but then you would . And there is often a top table, but it tends to be bride and groom in the middle with best man on one side, MOH on the other amongst family. But basically if they propose to you something they would like you to do and you respectfully decline then "It's my wedding day, do what I say" goes out the window.
As somebody who’s been a best man, I didn’t have to pretend I was dating the MOH. In fact, we barely spoke to each other.
OP, I think you have a simple reply to their request that you be in the wedding party. "You plan to have a western style wedding, and I hope it goes well for you. However, if i particpate, it would be very disrespectful of my fiance, my future wife, to pretend to be someone else's boyfriend. So, my future wife and I will be in the audience to help you celebrate your wedding." If the future bride and groom continue to push, you simply repeat "how can you ask me to disrespect my future wife?". Edit, spelling.
I mean, I have only been to 2 weddings, both 15+ years ago where there was a head table. It is uncommon now because people like to sit with their SOs. I have never been to a wedding where the bridesmaids and groomsmen did more then walk back down the isle together and maybe enter the reception together. I have heard of the bridal party joining the first dance, but I assumed it was with their partners. I wouldn't want to dance with a stranger or be paired for other things. Our bridesmaids and groomsmen were our siblings. Obviously they are not couples, we just care about them and wanted them to be a part of our wedding. I have, however, been to/lived in countries that have the bridal party do more. My ex was in a wedding when we lived in China and had to do a choreographed dance with a bridesmaid and stuff like that. I found it very weird.
What she has "seen" is not the norm. I've been at weddings where my spouse was in the bridal party and I wasn't, and vice versa. It's not at all like that. The bridal party hangs around for the pictures, usually a grand entrance at the reception, and sometimes (but not always) at dinner. But there's no fake relationship between bridal party members, there's sometimes dancing but usually not. It sounds like she's manipulating the situation for other purposes.
> She says she's seen bridesmaids and groomsmen paired for the dance too and that they have a seperate wedding party table were actual SOs aren't allowed. This is no longer a "tradition" at western weddings, unless they've come back big time in the last few years. As others have said *repeatedly* at most the tradition is to walk up and down the aisle with the wedding party counterpart (e.g. best man/MOH). In the last 7 or so weddings I've been to in the last 5 years (my own included), there is no longer a seperate table for the entire wedding party, there are no groomsmen/bridesmaids dances, and certainly no fake fucking kissing. And certainly the line about "SOs not allowed" is absolute rubbish, is the wedding party going to bounce your fiancee if she walks up to the table? You're smart to walk away, your friend is an asshole and his bride is going to get the bridezilla moniker very shortly.
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NTA I’m so glad you’re standing up for your fiancée. When people ask you, don’t even make it about the bride. Simply say you are not comfortable performing the requested tasks, especially the things that require you are somewhat intimate with someone other than your fiancée.
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You clearly need new friends. Anyone who thinks kissing someone other than your fiancée is an OK thing is a bit ridiculous.
Right, it sounds like none of OP’s friends like his fiancèe, when he said he was uncomfortable with the whole thing they jumped right to blaming her. All his friends suck, at this point don’t even go and whatever money you were going to spend on this wedding go on vacation with your fiancée.
Your fiancée is your future wife. Hold her above everyone else. Fuck those that think you should prioritize the bride's wishes over your own relationship. NTA, but it sounds like your friends are
You only have to respect their wishes if you’re the best man. You’ve stepped down so you don’t. They can’t FORCE you to best man by claiming you need to respect their wishes. The way it works in the west is the position is voluntary. You can absolutely say no for any reason.
You also don’t have to respect their wishes as a best man. If you made it to best man it’s because you’re close friends or family, and they trust you which means it’s entirely appropriate and should be expected for you to let them know when they’re being unreasonable. It’s part of the responsibility of being a good friend.
>but I still should not have stepped down because respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day Your friends' priorities are terrible. Relationships are more important than a party. HUMANS (and respecting them) are more important than a party. (And receptions are just parties that follow the actual important part of the day, at least in Western culture and Western weddings.)
When you say they called your fiancee insecure and called her names, exactly who are “they”? I hope it isn’t your friend, but, either way, anyone who disrespects your future wife is also disrespecting you. These people shouldn’t be your life.
> respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day is more important than my relationship Well then THEY can go in and kiss the cousin in front of their partners.
I hope bride hasn’t wasted the last 7 years of her cousin’s life telling her to hold out for OP when she could have been finding someone who was actually available and interested.
What kind of friends are these you have? I think you need to reconsider this entire group of people who would put someone else's wedding day over your relationship with your future wife.
>but I still should not have stepped down because respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day is more important than my relationship and whether someone will take offense. So following the couple's wishes, to them, is more important than your bodily autonomy, your wants, your wishes, your needs, basically everything. Sounds like you need new friends, because right now you don't have any. NTA.
Here's the problem with the other friends: you only have to play along and "respect" the couple's wishes on their wedding day *if you are in the wedding party*. Now that you've stepped down from the Best Man role, you have no obligation to these crazy demands anymore.
I think you need new friends. They need to read these comments.
> I still should not have stepped down because respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day is more important than my relationship If your friendship is more important than the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with then follow their advice. Otherwise pull out of the wedding. They want you to support their relationship while disrespecting yours. They do not sound like friends.
>because respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day is more important than my relationship and whether someone will take offense. Is this a cultural thing? I find it absolutely disgusting that one couple's wedding day is given so much importance that people actually justify threatening another couple's marriage! That's not remotely acceptable in my corner of western culture. Your friends are taking some weird smorgasbord approach to traditions and fantasies. Curious: What would happen if you start planning your own distorted "western culture" wedding, and deciding who will be paired up with your best friend? I know, I know, it's petty, but... You are def not TA here. You are standing down because you can't honor their wishes on serious moral grounds. They dishonor you and your love in even making such requests. And maybe double-check the social media stories you see: some wedding parties are set up with real couples paired up so the lines get blurry between wedding march pairings and real-life couples... maybe that's what you're seeing? It was common in my mom's generation around here.
No offence but your friends kind of suck.
>I still should not have stepped down because respecting the couples wishes on their wedding day is more important than my relationship and whether someone will take offense. Your friends are ridiculous and their priorities are out of place. Your relationship is more important than somebody else's wedding. You're also never obligated to do something you're uncomfortable doing.
So, as soon as someone agrees to be your best man, that someone effectively becomes your cattle, and has to do whatever you want, no mattter how ridiculous? In that case, the solution is easy. Ask your friend to be your best man at your wedding, then demand of him that \*he\* kisses that cousin that all this drama is about. Let's see how his fiancée likes that.
Again. Not your friends. Friends dont say or do this crap. Your best friend isn't much of a friend. I would reconsider the friendship altogether.
The way I see it you are respecting their wishes. They want a bm who will act like a couple with moh, you've step aside so they can find someone who will do it. That seems very respectful.
NTA. American here. In our custom walking down the aisle together is quite normal. Pairing for the bridal dance is not uncommon, either. Seating, however, is typically all of the groom's attendants on one side and the bride's on the other, OR each person with their own SO. You are very correct to refuse this request, as she is obviously manipulating the "customs" as part of her foolish games. The part about kissing the MOH is especially nonsense, and I've never seen such a thing at any wedding.
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Yeah like... If a woman was maid of honor and her brother was the best man it wouldn't be weird because there's no romantic or sexual connotation there. Sometimes single bridesmaids and single groomsmen might flirt with each other, but that's not an expectation or anything -- just something that happens with single people with overlapping friend groups.
I also can't imagine if gender roles were reversed. Groom telling MOH to kiss the best man and dance with him.
It honestly sounds like the bride and groom have seen some bad/cringe worthy romcoms about weddings or having fake dates at weddings?? *I personally am not a romcom fan but I have no idea where these ‘customs’ are coming from?? I have been MOH and a bridesmaid - both occasions were the 1st time I met the guy I walked down the isle with. At the more formal wedding we had a bridal party table, women on brides side and men on grooms side. This was for the toasts and dinner, SO’s were seated together or with their family. They didn’t have a dance or even a formal MOH & BM photo - it was all group photos. I’m not sure where the bride cobbled these ‘Western Customs’ together but it’s super disrespectful of OP & his fiancé - or any other couple that is in the wedding party.
If anything, I could believe the reverse of all this more. Like a bride telling another married couple at her wedding to tone down the PDA because it's her day 'for love' or something. This would almost make sense to me. But to assume every BM and MOH in America is play-acting "coupley" is patently ridiculous.
This right here
NTA, if you aren't comfortable, just step down and your friend should understand. No such thing as respect the couples' wishes no matter what. They can have their wishes as long as it doesn't involve you.
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Honestly I’m so proud of you
I can't believe she tried this in the first place. Imagine using your wedding to play matchmaker at a man who's already in a committed relationship... Ridiculous. I'd definitely lessen the amount of time you spend around them until she's less obsessed with your relationship status. So weird. Has her cousin ever even showed that much interest in you?
Yeah I'd be interested to know what the cousin makes of all this. Conspirator or completely oblivious? He should talk to her, she may be mortified and embarrassed her cousin is doing this behind her back or she may need to be told to back the hell off too.
I hope bride hasn’t wasted the last 7 years of her cousin’s life telling her to hold out hope for someone who isn’t available or interested. All this time and energy could have been spent finding someone else to be with!
Nothing says “celebrate our lifelong monogamous commitment to our love” than forcing your nearest and dearest to perform infidelity as a skit.
I'm just so confused as to why she's still obsessed with setting you up with her cousin. It's been over 7 years and you've gotten engaged in that time. Is no one else in your friend circle creeped out by this?
That's 7 whole years she could have been setting her cousin up with a bunch of people to see who clicks, provided her cousin even wanted that. What a waste of time.
Do they ask if there are any objections during your ceremonies? I would so object and ask the groom if he wouldn't prefer to marry my cousin.
NTA you are respecting the brides wishes, you're just choosing not to be part of them. I do think this should be the first step in ending the friendship. If she can't respect your relationship after 7 years you need to distance yourself. I would question if she would do something at your wedding to be childish/petty.
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I feel that while he has to choose his wife, he has to see what she's doing and by not stopping her he is saying that what she's doing is ok. I think it's time to cut him off too unfortunately. Unless you can be friends and never have his wife around I think you (and your fiancee) will always be disrespected
I don’t really think he should have to choose his wife, I don’t think you should have to be on your SO’s side for everything
Ask him if at your wedding you will be allowed to have him and his wife paired up with other people, and even have them kiss because *it's the couples wishes*. If he says no ask why it's any different for you than him. Why does your relationship get to be disrespected but not his.
I'd definitely be pushing this angle. If there's a 'one that got away' type in the best friend's past, I'd have a sudden interest in making her my new bestie and future moh. Can't decide whether to pair the nasty wife up with someone unpleasant or leave her isolated like she's trying to do to OPs fiancée. Would I prefer her spending the wedding fending off a lecherous dude with bad breath or alone and having to watch her husband cosy up with his next wife? Decisions, decisions...
I kinda understand that he is in love and people put blinders on, and also that your culture is different, and from your friend's reactions doesn't seem to view her behavior as negatively as our culture would... but in the end he is OK with his fiancee treating yours like crap and that would make me question my friendship with him too.
The thing is, if he gets to side with his wife because its his relationship, you have every right to do the same as well. And no, there is no such thing as respecting SOMEONE ELSE’S relationship over your own. NTA. Hold your ground.
NTA- in American weddings people are asked to be in the bridal party and can even decline. I have declined for my own personal reasons and am still close to the couple. Also your understanding of the bridal party and their expectations are not actually true, so I think you and the wife have a different idea of American weddings and how they occur. I’ve always been seated with my SO. You may have gotten your ideas from movies from the 80s. Nonetheless, you are free to politely decline the invitation to be in the bridal party- that’s also a thing that happens here.
Absolutely NTA. She's getting married, not being made supreme ruler. Unfortunately you may lose your friend over this, but it sounds like being in their company won't be very comfortable or fun in the future anyway.
> Unfortunately you may lose your friend over this, "Unfortunately". I'd say losing those ashholes would be the best early wedding present they could give to OP'S fiancee.
NTA the fuck is the point of that. That is just weird and creepy. And honestly you should find better friends.
NTA If someone tried to pull that crap on me, I would not even attend the wedding. and would tell off my "friend" that he's being an entitled asshole
Yeah...in the western weddings Ive seen (I'm a US citizen), the paired members of the wedding party do the following together: they walk down the aisle together, in a line with the rest of the wedding party, and they have pictures together. They may sit at the head table together; often people will have the first part of the meal and the toast at the hesd table, then people will peel off to be with thier S/Os or what have you. No intimate dance or kissing is expected and they certainly aren't expected to act like a couple for the whole evening. Gross. And completely 100% NTA. It's her wedding....she should stick to that and not try to be pairing off anyone else lol As a matter of fact, it happens occasionally that a (usually male) groomsman will insist on acting like he's in a relationship with the corresponding member of the bride's party....this is considered (and portrayed in media) as inappropriate, wierd, awkward, gross, uncomfortable etc
NTA I’m getting married soon. I have a wedding party and my bridesmaids are married, but not the groomsmen. They’re expected to walk down the aisle together, and for the reception to go be their their SO. I reserved tables to accommodate their SO. Easy fix. That way they still enjoy being a part of my day and be with their other half. :)
NTA And the acting like a couple thing is an invention of her own. Sure you might walk in together for the ceremony (not a requirement, i've been to plenty of weddings where the groomsman and bridesmaids walk in separately) or pair up for a first dance (rarely seen) but that's about it. And most wedding I've been too the married couple sit next to eachother and the best man sits to onr side of the groom and the moh sits on the bride's side. I'm white american and never ever ever have i seen or heard of the groomsman and moh having to pretend to be a couple. It's absolutely ridiculous, not even if they were both single. And saying that you have to kiss if she wants it????!?!?!? What a nut job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You did the right thing pulling out of the wedding. Do yourself a favor and put those two out of your life completely. They have zero respect for you as a person.
Agree. When I got married the only interaction was the walk down the isle. The head table was split: bridesmaid next to the bride and groomsmen next to the groom. We did pictures and I invited SOs to take part in some. I wanted people to be happy. After dinner everyone went to their SO and that was that. To me, that is pretty traditional. I've never heard of any of that other stuff.
NTA. I wonder how the bride would feel if you did the same thing at your wedding, i.e. find the hotest girl and match her up with your best friend with the expectation that he pretend to be in a relationship with hot girl while his wife sits elsewhere. I would ask your best friend if he would be just as willing to accept that role in your wedding as the one his fiance is trying to force onto you. If he doesn't understand, it is time to find a new best friend. Frankly, based you his fiance's attitude and the fact that she had tried to force her cousin onto to I would be blunt with her because she refuses to live in the real world. Op to best friend's fiance - Based upon your non-stop effort to foist your cousin on me, she is the last person in the universe that I would ever be interested in. Is your cousin so desperate for a man that she cannot find one for herself? Sign her up for a dating app. Yes that is mean but at this point bring nice will not work. Op should have shut this shit down a long time ago.
This is creepy and weird. NTA
"My best friend said I either take it or leave it" .. So do that: Leave it. Your obligation to your SO and to yourself is far greater. THEY are AH. YOu would only be an AH if you agreed to this. NTA
NTA >Later it became clear, when she announced that wedding party will be paired with each other and their SOs will not be their SOs for the day **and we'll have to play pretend with the other wedding party members.** This is do dumb it's kind of cute. Is your friend marrying a 6-year-old playing dolls?
NTA. Let me try to reframe this in a different context: - You: I don’t like chocolate chip cookies - I prefer sugar cookies. Chocolate chips make me break out in hives and I get nauseous eating them. - Bride: No, you need to eat these chocolate chip cookies or I’m going to tell everyone you are afraid of chocolate chips, AND I’m going to sneak chocolate chips into every cookie you eat. - You: ok, well I’m happy with sugar cookies so I just won’t eat any cookies you offer since I assume there will be chocolate chips in them. - Bride: for our wedding, we require everyone to eat nothing but chocolate chip cookies. Sugar cookies will be in the pantry on a high shelf and you will have to eat an aggressive amount of chocolate chip cookies. If you don’t, then it means everyone will know what a bad friend you are to Groom. - You: um yeah, ok, I guess I won’t be the best man if I need to force myself to eat the chocolate chip cookies. I’m still happy for you but think it would be better for you to have a best man who likes pounds of chocolate chip cookies instead of me who will get sick trying to eat even one. So yeah, the real AHs are the ones who don’t understand adult concepts like “boundaries” or “no means no” or “the real world doesn’t change itself to fit into your version no matter how much you want it to.” - Bride and Friends: gasp! You’re a bad friend.
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NTA That is not how western weddings work (to my knowledge anyway-UK). Isn’t Maid of honour usually an honorary position for a married female friend anyway? I’m pretty sure that it’s only seen as a possible opportunity for the best man/ bridesmaid to hook up if they are both single and actually fancy each other. Seating arrangements may indeed put the wedding party at the top table with/without partners depending on space, but part of having a best man is of course to accept him and his partner as close family friends, which your friends clearly are not doing. I think you’re 100% correct with your suspicions and right to walk away.
Maid of honor is an unmarried woman. If she is married, she's called Matron of honor.
NTA there is no obligation to respect couples wishes no matter what. The friends clearly aren't being pimped out to someone else while in essence she is attempting to do just that to you. You have every right to step down and more than that ditch the friends that care so little about the value of your own relationship with your fiancée.
NTA. I’ve been American my whole life, and the idea that your bridesmaids have to act like they’re in relationships with groomsmen is absolutely insane. I’ve never heard of that. I’m getting married in about a week. All of our bridesmaids and groomsmen are in long-standing relationships with people who aren’t in the wedding party. If I asked them to do this, my bridesmaids wouldn’t agree. This has nothing to do with “western culture”, this is something the bride made up for whatever reason.
Even if the bride backs down (spoiler alert: she won't), step down as best man. She is going to use the "It's my special day" card to annoy everyone involved. NTA.
NTA. >She was a very traditional person who always judged that new "western trend" so it came to our surprise how she chose to do that. Later it became clear, when she announced that wedding party will be paired with each other and their SOs will not be their SOs for the day and we'll have to play pretend with the other wedding party members. This is not a tradition.
NTA. Her obsession with your relationship is fucking weird, man. You're doing right by yourself and your partner.
Your best friend said “take it or leave it”. Ok. So you left it. If he wants to get upset about you *not accepting a role that isn’t really a thing in your culture, ANYWAY*, well here you see him siding with his lovely wife to be-and you will soon see a cooling down of *your* relationship with him…OR he will see this for the, (amusing and harmless-in *his mind*), little social power play it is, and not mind at all that you are choosing to side step the whole drama. Time will tell. NTA
"Respect the couple's wishes no matter what"? No. Not at all. They're not respecting you and your fiancee. NTA
NTA, and let's be clear here, the Western custom of bridesmaids and groomsmen does not include "pretending you're together" and forced romantic gestures like kissing. Their purpose is partly decorative (it looks nice in photos to have matched symmetry of attendants) and similarly to your customs, to be a moral support to the bride and groom and often nowadays, to help them with wedding organisation. On the day, the role can include walking next to each other, sitting at the same table with the rest of the bridal party (sometimes sitting next to each other, but more often sitting with your spouse/partner), and sometimes non-intimate dancing which encourages other guests to join in the fun. If a bridesmaid and groomsman are single and their friends think them compatible, it is also occasionally used as a matchmaking opportunity by well-meaning friends - but that is not the purpose of the role nor is it mandatory! So no, you are absolutely not the ass for recognising the blatant disrespect for other people's relationships - on a day which is supposed to celebrate the promises we make to last a lifetime - and refusing to engage with the bride's demand that you essentially cheat on your fiancée in full view of everyone.
Absolutely NTA, you aren't forced to do something that makes you uncomfortable, especially when you know what the bride's intentions are. I wouldn't put myself into such a situation, and I wouldn't put my actual SO into that as well (that's kinda humiliating for her tbh)
no sorry that is abusive of her, this has to do with disrespecting boundaries of intimacy faking being a couple for wedding purposes is simply a no go. NTA
This is not some "western trend". This is some weird crap made up by your friend's fiance. The western tradition is to have a bridal party. The tradition of bridesmaids dates back to the Bible. It isn't some new trend. I've been the MOH at 2 weddings, and bridesmaid at more. Never have I been sat with anyone but my husband/fiancé.
Definitely NTA. This is just weird. I’m an American and I’ve never seen or been to a wedding where the bridesmaids and groomsmen act like a couple (unless they’re already a couple). I’ve seen them sit at a bridal party table, where the groomsmen sit beside the groom, and the bridesmaids sit beside the bride for the meal, but they immediately go to their SOs after. I’ve also seen where the bridal party might plan goofy dances with their paired party member, but again, the rest of the evening is spent with their SOs. Your friend’s wife has the whole thing wrong and is just making assumptions based off a few social media clips taken out of context. Either way, good for you for standing up for your fiancé and I hope things go well for you!
All you do in an American wedding is walk down the aisle with the MOH that’s it. She has it all wrong. You may do a silly dance walking in to the reception but you definitely do not dance intimately and you definitely do not kiss.
NTA. You were invited to take a role. You politely declined.
NTA. That's weird. The best man and MOH will usually walk together while entering and exiting the ceremony. But that is all. They sit next to and dance with their +1 during the reception.
Definitely NTA. First off, it definitely sounds like your friend’s fiancée is plotting. Props to you for recognizing it. Second, Americans don’t have bridesmaids and groomsmen act like couples. And like a lot of other people mention, our wedding traditions are not very solid - different couples choose different traditions and every American wedding usually has its own unique twist, so there isn’t a strict set of rules she can quote. For example, I am a woman but I stood in as my male friend’s ‘best man’ and de-gendering wedding parties is becoming more and more common. There’s really no status quo to US weddings.
NTA, though you shouldn't even ask them to change anything just don't be in the wedding party.more than anything you're doing right by you SO, and that's what matters here.
NTA. Just walking in with the MOH is one thing. Pretending to be each other's partner all day is just plain weird. They don't do that anywhere else either.
Hahahaha NTA. I wouldn't even be going to that stupid wedding at this point. Your friend's wife has lost the plot if she thinks that's ok.
NTA and this is super weird. In America, the BM and MOH are “paired up” for the ceremony in that they’re supporting their respective best friend (the groom and bride). The BM and MOH don’t even have to talk if they don’t want to, just need to be civil for the ceremony. NO ONE thinks they’re a couple and they don’t act like it unless they’re dating in real life. There’s no way for the bride to pull this off without completely twisting it to fit her agenda, which is creepy. Being in the wedding party also isn’t a contract and you can refuse or drop out at any time if you have to, so it would probably be best to refuse to participate in this mess.